mitnick-digest Sunday, September 27 1998 Volume 01 : Number 168 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 00:29:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron D. Ball" Subject: off-topic silliness derived from [mitnick] Re: check for mitnickt-shirts:ATTN:EVERYONE! On Sat, 26 Sep 1998 WyRmXx@aol.com wrote: % i only want to see them b/c i dont like gay shirts. Yes, sexual preference is always one of my prime considerations when I buy shirts. Problem is, shirts have such small genitals that it's very hard to tell whether they're male or female, so you don't know which sex is the right one for a particular shirt. So I usually just do without, y'know? But I never buy skirts that like chicks, that's for sure. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 22:05:51 -0700 From: Caliban Tiresias Darklock Subject: Re: off-topic silliness derived from [mitnick] Re: check for mitnickt-shirts:ATTN:EVERYONE! On 12:29 AM 9/27/98 -0400, I personally witnessed Aaron D. Ball jumping up to say: > >Problem is, shirts have such small genitals that it's very hard >to tell whether they're male or female Who needs to see anything? Just smell it. (Okay, okay, that was gross. Sorry.) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Caliban Tiresias Darklock | "I'm not sorry or Darklock Communications | ashamed of who I PGP Key AD21EE50 at | really am." FREE KEVIN MITNICK! | - Charles Manson ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 23:02:50 -0700 (PDT) From: rOTTEN Subject: [mitnick] off-topic? "Hey homie! Who's Kevin?" - a brief narrative As I was coming home today, entering lovely Echo Park, CA 90026, I was stopped at a light. Two brothers walk behind my bike and as they pass me on the right, say, "Hey homie! Who's Kevin?" I then told them that Kevin was a computer hacker who has been in prison for the last 3 1/2 years with no bail and no trial. One of the guys (not the one that looked like Snoop Dogg) said, "Hey, can you hook me up with him? Those guys know how to get into banks right?" I said, "Well, some of them do, but this one never went into banking systems. There was one guy who stole money from banks, but he eventually wound up in prison. He was a punk-ass anyway, cuz he ratted people out for the FBI." He said, "That's fucked up!" I said, "not as fucked up as being in prison for 3 1/2 years with no bail or trial" The light changed, I said, "Later homiez," turned left and hit 60mph in under 6 seconds. Another day, another recruit? <..rOTTEN..> nobody move, nobody get hurt error187(1) critical failure ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 02:05:25 EDT From: WyRmXx@aol.com Subject: Re: off-topic silliness derived from [mitnick] Re: check for mitnickt-shirts:... In a message dated 9/26/98 11:47:51 PM US Eastern Standard Time, abaddon@cs.umb.edu writes: > Yes, sexual preference is always one of my prime considerations when I buy > shirts. Problem is, shirts have such small genitals that it's very hard > to tell whether they're male or female, so you don't know which sex is the > right one for a particular shirt. So I usually just do without, y'know? > But I never buy skirts that like chicks, that's for sure. ok smartass..how about you shut your face ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 23:38:57 PDT From: "black sheep" Subject: [mitnick] response from james@nashscene after many letter back and forth >From: James Hanback >Subject: You might be interested... >To: teknowh0re@hotmail.com >Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:17:18 -0500 (CDT) >Cc: BadGirlnLA@aol.com > >Hello. > >Because both of you expressed your concerns to me about the >way hackers/hacking/and the Kevin Mitnick situation were >portrayed in my column, I thought you might be interested to >know that I have written a "Byte" for next week that speaks >to those issues. > >I must admit that I made some factual errors (largely because >I got my information from CNN and MSNBC). So as a show of >good faith and because I believe both sides of an issue are >important, I am sending this message to you. > >First, I clarified the blanket-sounding statements I made >about hackers, their points of view, and their societal >status. This was largely inspired by a current editorial >at www.antionline.com. I pointed out that not all hackers >do what HFG did to the New York Times. I cannot bring myself >to condone the NYT defacing, but I apologize for the harsh >words I used to describe those who performed it. > >Second, I clarified that HFG and other hacker groups are >upset about Kevin Mitnick's lack of a fair trial to date (and, >in my opinion, you are absolutely right to be upset about it-- >no one should be denied due process). > >Third, I did not mention either of your e-mail addresses or >names in this piece, because neither of you expressed a desire >to be heard outside of the e-mails you sent me. > >Thanks again for both your comments. The column runs next >Wednesday if you'd like to take a look. > >Regards, > >James >Nashville Scene > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 06:31:52 EDT From: Glamorb0y@aol.com Subject: Re: [mitnick] off-topic? "Hey homie! Who's Kevin?" - a brief narrative Rotten. 60 mph in under 60 sec.....what that gotta do with Kevin¿ My friend has a few connections with lawyers.....I hope 2 have an accurate post on what they have 2 say about the trial in the next few days, BTW, this news group has gotten off the main topic. Kevin. Lets get back on track, shall we?¿? Anyways, Rotten, U know what's up...I don't mean 2 diss you. PS I know AOL doesn't offer a shell, so lets keep people from flaming us, shall we? Ciao, Active matriX ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 12:42:28 EDT From: LHS15@aol.com Subject: [mitnick] Kevin Mitnick Even i said a stupid comment once...or a few times... But lets not worry about shirts being "Gay" because shirts are not people. Plus Even if the shirt was pink and it said Free Kevin on it,it would still help. Who cares what color or style the shirt,pants or even stickers have? As long as they help spread the word of Kevin Mitnick its ok ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 12:10:51 -0500 From: "poiSiNous" Subject: Re: [mitnick] off-topic? Off TOPIC some MORE?? "Hey homie! Who's Kevin?" - a brief narrative - -----Original Message----- From: Glamorb0y@aol.com To: mitnick@2600.com Date: Sunday, September 27, 1998 5:48 AM Subject: Re: [mitnick] off-topic? "Hey homie! Who's Kevin?" - a brief narrative >Rotten. 60 mph in under 60 sec.....what that gotta do with Kevin¿ Well, Rottens point is... no matter what you are doing or where you are there is always someone you can enlighten about Kevins case.... each person you tell, may tell another and so on...thus "spreading the word" Get it now? It had everything to do with Kevin. >My friend has a few connections with lawyers.....I hope 2 have an accurate >post on what they have 2 say about the trial in the next few days, BTW, this >news group has gotten off the main topic. Kevin. Off Topic?? as in a few posts that say in the subject line... *Off Topic*??? Try the trash bin. >Lets get back on track, shall we?¿? >Anyways, Rotten, U know what's up...I don't mean 2 diss you. >PS I know AOL doesn't offer a shell, so lets keep people from flaming us, >shall we? We shall.... not flame you for being on AOL, as I seriously doubt anyone but a 15 year old ego-maniac would give a shit... but if you are so worried about the content on this list...I'd say don't read *off topic* posts (and whether or not they should even be on the list is not my point) and then respond to the with a post with no content...and informing us about your future posts with content. ((Myself I am excluded, as I don't mind reading reading the posts labeled *off topic*)) >Ciao, Active matriX Later, ::popping a few Midol for this raging PMS::: poiSiNous > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 14:35:47 EDT From: WyRmXx@aol.com Subject: [mitnick] that fight with that guy.. In a message dated 9/27/98 12:31:35 PM US Eastern Standard Time, abaddon@cs.umb.edu writes: > # listen punk..i never asked to talk to you in the first place. > > No, you made a silly-ass comment and I poked fun at your silly-ass comment > and you got all pissed-off as a result, which is practically *inviting* me > ot ridicule you further. > > # chicks do not like me? how the hell do you know that? > > It's a gratuitous insult. Do you know what that means? It means I make up > a bunch of nasty things about you and say them to you to provoke you. And, > surprise surprise, it worked. Don't you feel easily manipulated now? > > # i assure you that i do have a girl..and she does "dig" me. > > "Chicks dig X" is a standard expression meaning "X is cool". "Chicks do NOT > dig you" is meant to convey the emphatic opposite sense of that expression, > regardless of how many of your putative female counterparts in oafland hang > on you. > > # i am not a homophobe..in fact..i have a friend who is gay. so again..you > # are wrong. i used the word "gay" b/c i felt like it..not b/c i was afraid > # of it. > > The use of the word "gay" as a generic negative adjective, even when applied > to inanimate objects, is a linguistic act of war. Such acts tend to be > carried out by people who are sexually insecure and feel the need to put > down a vast group of people in silly ways merely to distance themselves from > that group. The term "homophobia", while it literally means fear, also > applies to this insecurity and uneasiness. > > # i dont use punctuation or capitalization b/c I DONT GIVE A FUCK!! > > So I gather. You are happy to make a fool of yourself in other ways, too. > > # why do i have to capitalize? > > It's a lot more readable, and it serves to distance yourself from AOlusers. > ... Ooops! > > # how about i capitalize the last letter in every sentencE. i can do thaT. > # maybe i want to end my sentences with the dollar sigN$ would you like > # thaT$ > > Wow. I wonder if I can get you to stop bathing forever by commenting on how > nasty you smell. Or make you bark like a dog by commenting on the obnoxious > quality of your voice. There are some real possibilities here. > > # you, being the fucking moron that started all this bullshit, need to do as > # i told you to do in the previous letter..shut your facE$ > > Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo that's cold. > > Fucking, yes. Moron, no. The burden of proof is on the person who can't > right for shit. > > And my face is not involved in producing this dear letter. Take your foot > out of your mouth and go home. > > -- > Aaron D. Ball > "Do you believe in intuition?" > "No, but I have a strange feeling that someday I will." wow..you spent a lot of time with this. there are lots of things i could comment on..and maybe i will. not everyone who says the word gay as a negative remark is a homophobe. if you think this..it proves me right about you being a moron. no i do not feel manipulated. i do not say things just to make you mad. i say things that are true. if you are using gratuitous insults..then you have no life and you need to talk about something that has some backing. also..i dont even know where this punctuation thing came from. are you saying all that b/c i use "b/c"? is it b/c i use ".."? wait..sorry.."..?". there..thats better. maybe i should consult you b4 writing a sentence. wait, am i allowed to use b4? get back to me on that one. now, as i said b4..shut the fuck up. we dont need ppl critisizing other ppl on this list. it isnt about you trying to insult me. as you said..you are making fun of my silly ass comment. GET THE HELL OFF THE LIST IF THATS YOUR INTENTION YOU FUCKING PRICK! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 11:41:45 -0700 (PDT) From: rOTTEN Subject: Re: [mitnick] off-topic? "Hey homie! Who's Kevin?" - a brief narrative On Sun, 27 Sep 1998 Glamorb0y@aol.com wrote: > Rotten. 60 mph in under 60 sec..... under *6* seconds. A Ducati can hit 60 in about 3 seconds, but my piece of shit Honda can do it in less than 6 seconds. I've dusted Corvettes and Porsches. At any rate, It was a narrative. I was adding an element of conclusion to my experience. Here's an example: "So Tex McBrien saved the lady from the hands of Mad Dog Ritter, hopped on top of his trusty steed and made his way slowly into the sunset." See, instead of me heading slowly into the sunset, I went really fast. Neat, huh? > what that gotta do with Kevin¿ Read the subject header. Notice the "off-topic?" That should indicate to you that there MAY be no useful information in the message text, which is why I put it there, for all to see and deal with in their own way. Thus, my post was valid...especially since I was recanting an inquiry about Kevin Mitnick, and not just a story about what the waitress said to me at lunch today. > My friend has a few connections with lawyers.....I hope 2 have an accurate > post on what they have 2 say about the trial in the next few days, BTW, this > news group has gotten off the main topic. Kevin. Are you related to James Joyce? Your email is purely stream of consciousness. Glamorboy, make sure you forge in the smithy of your soul the uncreated conscience of your race. > Lets get back on track, shall we?¿? I don't know about YOU, but I'm on track...if I'm off-topic, I disclaimed it in the subject header. Besides, just because I retract my assumed position as list-cop, doesn't make you the second-in-command, can you dig that, Barney Fife? > Anyways, Rotten, U know what's up...I don't mean 2 diss you. Sure you do, otherwise you wouldn't have said shit. Yer just lookin' to be the big wheel at the cracker factory. Instead of ignoring a post that was appropriately labeled "off topic?", you replied, poiSiNous replied, I'm replying, and you'll probably reply again... So from one "off-topic?" post, you've at least QUADRUPLED the thread. > PS I know AOL doesn't offer a shell, so lets keep people from flaming us, > shall we? This has nothing to do with me, and I don't know how that fits into your email. It's a non-sequiter. If you WERE directing the AOL thing at me, please notice that I'm not an AOLer and note further that I have a shell account. Now crack open your copy of Vogue, Glamorboy, and stick your nose in it. <..rOTTEN..> nobody move, nobody get hurt error187(1) critical failure ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 15:04:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Ball Subject: Re: [mitnick] that fight with that guy.. This does not belong on the mitnick list. That is why I carried the flame, uh, skirmish to private email without any comment on the list. Please try to be less of a dick in the future. Other people should learn from your mistake. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 15:21:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Ball Subject: NOT-[mitnick] Re: that fight with that guy.. If this sort of thing bores you like it bores me, read no further. If you feel the need to reply, please direct it to ME, not the LIST. I thought this was clear from the beginning. On Sun, 27 Sep 1998 WyRmXx@aol.com wrote: # wow..you spent a lot of time with this. Upwards of a minute. Hence the two spelling mistakes. # there are lots of things i could comment on..and maybe i will. But you're not sure? # not everyone who says the word gay as a negative remark is a homophobe. Reread what I wrote, please. # no i do not feel manipulated. i do not say things just to make you mad. # i say things that are true. Again, you apparently are having reading comprehension problems. I sent you a light flame in order to provoke you and thereby relieve some stress I was experiencing at the moment. You responded with anger; I therefore succeeded at manipulating you. "Gotcha." Get it now? # if you are using gratuitous insults..then you have no life and you need to # talk about something that has some backing. This sentence is deliciously unconnected. The comment about "James Joyce" has already been used up, so I won't repeat it. # also..i dont even know where this punctuation thing came from. are you # saying all that b/c i use "b/c"? is it b/c i use ".."? Two periods do not an ellipsis make. There are others, but I won't bother going into it. Your lack of capitalization is another indicator of poor writing skills. (Yes, some people write well otherwise even though they do not capitalize or punctuate properly; you are not, as far as I have seen, one of these people.) # now, as i said b4..shut the fuck up. You keep issuing imperatives, and I keep failing to obey them. Perhaps there is something to be learned from this. # we dont need ppl critisizing other ppl on this list. What, exactly, is wrong with criticism? Anyway, my flames (as opposed to a paragraph of light sarcasm) were directed to you, not the list. It's a shame you couldn't show the same courtesy. # it isnt about you trying to insult me. as you said..you are making fun of # my silly ass comment. "Silly what?" "Ass-comment!" (Never mind.) Yes, I made fun of your silly-ass comment. You responded with idiotic wrath, thus demonstrating yourself to be easily provoked. I sent you a personal reply seeking to provoke you further for my own amusement; insulting you was one of the tactics I used. It worked. # GET THE HELL OFF THE LIST IF THATS YOUR INTENTION YOU FUCKING PRICK! The only connection between my being on this list and my sending you insulting email is the fact that I did the latter in response to your behavior on the list. You're into that disconnected rambling thing again. "Please don't shout, you're hurting my ears." I keep getting really appropriate fortunes in this thread: - -- Aaron D. Ball HOW YOU CAN TELL THAT IT'S GOING TO BE A ROTTEN DAY: #15 Your pet rock snaps at you. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 15:31:20 EDT From: WyRmXx@aol.com Subject: Re: [mitnick] that fight with that guy.. i did not start that and that guy admitted that he was trying to make fun of me. hes the one you should tell ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 12:34:11 -0700 From: hugh field Subject: Re: off-topic silliness derived from [mitnick] Re: check for mitnickt-shirts:... How about you shut your bigoted, homophobic face and learn the values of tolerance? ~hugh field (DarkJedi) WyRmXx@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 9/26/98 11:47:51 PM US Eastern Standard Time, > abaddon@cs.umb.edu writes: > > > Yes, sexual preference is always one of my prime considerations when I buy > > shirts. Problem is, shirts have such small genitals that it's very hard > > to tell whether they're male or female, so you don't know which sex is the > > right one for a particular shirt. So I usually just do without, y'know? > > But I never buy skirts that like chicks, that's for sure. > > ok smartass..how about you shut your face - -- ********************************hugh field****************************** | redtide@serve.com | PGP public key @ www.serve.com/redtide/pgp.txt | ************************************************************************ | God: "If I were to tell you that there is an army of angels waiting | | in Heaven, and on the Day of Judgement they will be unleashed upon | | the world to slay all the unbelievers, what would your response be?" | | Response: "Pre-emptive nuclear strike." | ************************************************************************ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 15:53:30 EDT From: OALidANo@aol.com Subject: Re: off-topic silliness derived from [mitnick] Re: check for mitnickt-shirts:.. Whats the deal here?? I think Wyrm is right!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 15:57:05 EDT From: WyRmXx@aol.com Subject: Re: NOT-[mitnick] Re: that fight with that guy.. im not goin to comment on most things b/c i am tired of it. i am gonig to comment on the fact that you said i have poor writing skills. i am actually quite skilled. i dont use these skills on aol b/c i dont have to. i like not worrying about if my words are spelled right or if i have correct grammer. i do however use it when it is needed. As you can see, i have the ability to do this correctly. but i dont wanna. see how that works? ok..go away now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 16:07:23 EDT From: WyRmXx@aol.com Subject: Re: off-topic silliness derived from [mitnick] Re: check for mitnickt-shirts:.. In a message dated 9/27/98 2:47:10 PM US Eastern Standard Time, redtide@serve.com writes: > How about you shut your bigoted, homophobic face and learn the values of > tolerance? what the hell? i am not against gay's. if you would have read more..you would have read what i said. i have a gay friend! i am not homophobic..jesus christ..and yes im a christian too! just b/c i say "gay" like that..doesnt mean anything.. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 13:30:44 -0700 (PDT) From: rOTTEN Subject: [mitnick] OFF-TOPIC "the word GAY" > > The use of the word "gay" as a generic negative adjective, even when > applied > > to inanimate objects, is a linguistic act of war. Such acts tend to be > > carried out by people who are sexually insecure and feel the need to put > > down a vast group of people in silly ways merely to distance themselves > from > > that group. The term "homophobia", while it literally means fear, also > > applies to this insecurity and uneasiness. Okay, you fuckers are getting out of line here. Maybe I can help shed some light (yeah right) 1) Profanity offends people. It doesn't matter WHAT word you use, the word is PROFANE. Profanity in and of itself WILL offend someone. If you use the word FUCK, you're bound to offend SOMEONE. 2) The word "Gay" means "happy". It later made a transformation to describe homosexuals, it then later made a transformation to describe anything that's either embarassing or lackluster in quality or something that makes one look stupid, as in: "hey, this T-shirt is gay". This definition exists primarily during the developmental years and if the person enters the real world and interacts with a diverse group of people will normally fade by adulthood. 3) Those who ENCOUNTER profanity should take into consideration the EMOTION behind the word. If the word "gay" wasn't meant to deride homosexuals, it shouldn't be taken as such. If I use the word "nigga" to say, "man, that nigga is crazy" it's not the same as saying, "That guy's a fucking nigger!" Listen to George Carlin's spiel on language, you may be enlightened. 4) Those who use profanity should take into consideration that you may be speaking to a bunch of thin-skinned hypocritical pantywaists, and either NOT use profanity or use it selectively. 5) If gays find the word "gay" to be offensive, it shouldn't be used at all, by ANYONE, including them. It doesn't make sense that a word should be considered EVIL if used by anyone outside of your social group. That's hypocrisy, either the word shouldn't be used, or it can be used. If you opt to use a word that has several definition, know that those OTHER definitions will be used eventually. You may argue: "Well, he used to word 'gay' to describe something negatively" but that's not the same thing as saying "this t-shirt is only fit for a homosexual to wear". 6) If you use the word "gay" as a 'negative adjective', you'll find that it's not something that you'll get to say frequently in the real world...in high school, sure, at a job or in casual conversation, no. With friends that share similar backgrounds, yes. On an internet mailing list, well, you may want to reconsider. As far as the word "homophobe" is concerned, it's a word that describes a FEAR of latent homosexuality. One who openly opposes it isn't necessarily AFRAID of it, just against it for whatever reason. For those who use the word "homophobe" to describe anyone who doesn't accept homosexuality as a valid condition of the mind, LIVEN UP. If I don't like broccoli, I'm not a broccoliphobe. And if you have a problem with homosexuals, relax. Suppress your anger, you may find that homosexuals can be decent people just like anyone else. I used to use the word "gay" allatime to describe shit that was just straight out GAY. "Man, Craig is so gay, he thinks he's a skater, but can't ollie over a crack in the sidewalk". (notice no specific reference to sexual preference? ) When I started working with gay people and meeting them, the word became part of my vocabulary that wasn't used very much...like the word "antidisestablismentarianism". Words are words, it's what's BEHIND them that should offend people. And this concludes my dissertation for you fags. <..rOTTEN..> nobody move, nobody get hurt error187(1) critical failure ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 15:39:43 -0500 From: Zach Miller Subject: SHUT UP [mitnick] doesn't need this Can we stop these stupid posts to the list...this is not helping Kevin ...so stop trying to act like you are going to stop while trying to get the last word in ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 13:33:52 -0700 (PDT) From: rOTTEN Subject: Re: off-topic silliness derived from [mitnick] Re: check for mitnickt-shirts:... On Sun, 27 Sep 1998, hugh field wrote: > How about you shut your bigoted, homophobic face and learn the values of > tolerance? I might also point out that anyone who calls someone a BIGOT is a bigot. A bigot is someone who is intolerant of other people's opinions and beliefs. By pointing your finger and saying "bigot", you are being intolerant of their opinions and beliefs, and therefore, are a bigot. <..rOTTEN..> nobody move, nobody get hurt error187(1) critical failure ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 13:37:11 -0700 (PDT) From: rOTTEN Subject: Re: off-topic silliness derived from [mitnick] Re: check for mitnickt-shirts:.. On Sun, 27 Sep 1998 WyRmXx@aol.com wrote: > what the hell? i am not against gay's. if you would have read more..you > would have read what i said. i have a gay friend! i am not homophobic..jesus > christ..and yes im a christian too! just b/c i say "gay" like that..doesnt > mean anything.. Careful, when you affirm your religious affiliation, you open yourself up for scrutiny should you not act in accordance with the tenants of your faith. That's why it's better to say that you're non-religious when you act non-religious. Ain't nothing worse than a born-again christian (with the fish on the back of the car) who cuts you off on the freeway, ya know? That actually happened to me. I was pissed at her hypocrisy...is that how JESUS would drive? ENOUGH! <..rOTTEN..> nobody move, nobody get hurt error187(1) critical failure ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 17:12:09 EDT From: WyRmXx@aol.com Subject: Re: off-topic silliness derived from [mitnick] Re: check for mitnickt-shirts:.. i agree with every word you say rotten. thanks for backing me up and now we can get on with it ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 14:32:55 PDT From: "TelePhreak ." Subject: Re: [mitnick] off-topic?, rotten i personally think rottens post was definatly not off topic, it had to deal with kevin, it had humor in it, and he was spreading the word...i hope to hear more stories on spreading the word in the future, and not to mention it gave a good come back to "That Fucked Up" which i get quite often - - - - - - - - ->Phone Rangers<- - - - - - - - - - - F -TelePhreak R Email: AcidHak@Hotmail.com E mIRC: TelePhrk E ICQ: 10886438 K Aol Instant Messanger: TelePhrk 0 E NPA: 908 (NJ) V http://phonerangers.home.ml.org/ I - - - - - - - - ->Phone Rangers<- - - - - - - - - - - N ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 15:13:28 -0700 From: Caliban Tiresias Darklock Subject: [mitnick] Hackers and crackers and language On 01:30 PM 9/27/98 -0700, I personally witnessed rOTTEN jumping up to say: > >Words are words, it's what's BEHIND them that should offend people. I got to thinking about this, and figured maybe we should make some effort to label "darkside hackers" (it is so amazing how much Star Wars has insinuated itself into American culture and philosophy) with something that makes more sense. "Hacker" has become a word very much like "nigger"; we continually complain that the rest of the world isn't using the word right, and then use it to describe ourselves all the time. (It's a hack thing. You wouldn't understand.) Rather than allowing such people to be associated with hackers -- a darkside hacker is still a hacker, after all -- we should use some other term to describe them. Obviously, "cracker" hasn't caught on, and "evil hacker" just isn't fair; many such people actually aren't *evil*, just misguided. So I considered it, and I think the proposal advanced by Captain Burrito in 1996 is just about perfect. People who break into systems and cause damage or any other sort of havoc should be referred to as: "cheese wiz". This doesn't reflect badly on the spreadable cheese-flavored condiment in a jar, because that is "Cheez Whiz", so we aren't infringing on trademarks. Even if people draw this obvious parallel, if you put Cheez Whiz in your system, that's generally bad for it -- and I don't think the Cheez Whiz people can legitimately complain about that. (By "system", I mean *computer* system, not necessarily that eating Cheez Whiz will mess up *your* personal physical system -- although many people would argue that this is just as legitimate a statement.) In addition, "cheese wiz" carries a couple additional connotations. First, these people are "cheesy" in common parlance, or in other words rather lame and pathetic. Second, the term "wiz" does acknowledge that they are wizards after a fashion, so we aren't entirely disrespectful of their skills and abilities, just what they do with them. The natural tendency if we call these people cheese wiz, of course, is to consider them an IT rather than a THEY. This dehumanises them, and would tend to psychologically disconnect cheese wiz from the people you work and hang out with. You could make some very amusing graphics depicting what a cheese wiz looks like, thereby goofing on them and making them targets for public ridicule and disdain. Nobody could complain that hackers are evil if we make it a point to call hackers who break into systems cheese wiz. "Hey what about that guy who broke into..." "Hmph! That's no hacker, he's pure cheese wiz! Only cheese wiz cracks systems!" "Ohhh. Okay." This would create some very ominous conversations. "The system crashed." "What happened?" "Cheese wiz." "Oh, man... how did it get in?" "There was a hole in the firewall." "Did you clean it up?" "Yeah, but I still have to go check some of the backups." "I *hate* getting cheese wiz in the system." "At least you didn't have to clean it up." So to sum up, if we call these folks "cheese wiz" (in both the singular and the plural, thus lumping them all together like "sheep" or as an implied accusation that they're all the same), maybe it will make a difference. Having different types of hackers confuses the public, so let's separate the undesirables by label. It's a time-honored and tested tradition, and it has tended to work in the past. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- As the fire burneth a wood, and the flame setteth the mountains on fire; So persecute them with thy tempest, and make them afraid with thy storm. - ---------------------------[ Psalms, 83:14-15 ]--------------------------- Caliban Tiresias Darklock | "Hell, you don't Darklock Communications | know me." FREE KEVIN MITNICK! | - Charles Manson - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass he'll kick the shit out of you. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 15:17:02 -0700 From: Caliban Tiresias Darklock Subject: Re: [mitnick] off-topic?, rotten On 02:32 PM 9/27/98 -0700, I personally witnessed TelePhreak . jumping up to say: > >it gave a good come back to "That Fucked Up" which i get quite often I lament the loss of the opportunity to use Revelation 13:5 -- "And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months." I memorised this to give some extra weight and profundity to Kevin's situation when we were closing up on the three and a half year mark, and dammit I never got to use it, and it was frustrating as hell to have that great comment and never get to say it. I feel better now. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- As the fire burneth a wood, and the flame setteth the mountains on fire; So persecute them with thy tempest, and make them afraid with thy storm. - ---------------------------[ Psalms, 83:14-15 ]--------------------------- Caliban Tiresias Darklock | "Hell, you don't Darklock Communications | know me." FREE KEVIN MITNICK! | - Charles Manson - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass he'll kick the shit out of you. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 20:26:28 EDT From: JAKade@aol.com Subject: Re: off-topic silliness derived from [mitnick] Re: check for mitnickt-shirts:.. In a message dated 9/27/98 4:50:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rotten@cyberverse.com writes: > On Sun, 27 Sep 1998, hugh field wrote: > > > How about you shut your bigoted, homophobic face and learn the values of > > tolerance? > > I might also point out that anyone who calls someone a BIGOT is a bigot. > > A bigot is someone who is intolerant of other people's opinions and > beliefs. By pointing your finger and saying "bigot", you are being > intolerant of their opinions and beliefs, and therefore, are a bigot. This goes in my quote file. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 20:12:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Ball Subject: Re: off-topic silliness derived from [mitnick] Re: check for mitnickt-shirts:... Can we please let this thread die? I'm very very sorry I posted in the first place. Feh. On Sun, 27 Sep 1998, rOTTEN wrote: # > How about you shut your bigoted, homophobic face and learn the values of # > tolerance? # # I might also point out that anyone who calls someone a BIGOT is a bigot. # # A bigot is someone who is intolerant of other people's opinions and # beliefs. By pointing your finger and saying "bigot", you are being # intolerant of their opinions and beliefs, and therefore, are a bigot. I don't agree with your definition of "bigot"; I'd say that it refers to someone who lumps together as bad a group of people because of a quality that group is not responsible for: e.g., skin color, nationality, etc. As such, "bigot" is simply a subset of "asshole". But I suppose that's a matter of opinion; I'm not the one who said "bigot", anyway. My original comment was just poking fun at a piece of linguistic silliness: using the word "gay" to describe an unattractive T-shirt. Had I but known that it would set off a completely-off-topic mini-flame-war, I would never have posted it. Can this be over now? Please? Don't get me wrong -- I'm happy to trade insults with WormFucker in private. I'm just not up for the exponential escalation that happens when it goes on over the list. - -- Aaron D. Ball Humans do claim a great deal for that particular emotion (love). -- Spock, "The Lights of Zetar", stardate 5725.6 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 20:51:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Ball Subject: non-[mitnick]: the word "gay" Death to this thread. If anyone wants to continue it, reply to me and/or to rOTTEN privately. On Sun, 27 Sep 1998, rOTTEN wrote: # 3) Those who ENCOUNTER profanity should take into consideration the # EMOTION behind the word. If the word "gay" wasn't meant to deride # homosexuals, it shouldn't be taken as such. If I use the word "nigga" to # say, "man, that nigga is crazy" it's not the same as saying, "That guy's a # fucking nigger!" Listen to George Carlin's spiel on language, you may be # enlightened. Yes, and the difference is that "nigga" in the former case is not meant as an insult. "Gay" when used as an insult means "lackluster; pathetic; contemptible" (et c.) because of the association of the word with homosexuality, and that sense of the word was brought into being by the homophobic yadood masses, who use "gay" to mean everything they don't want to be perceived as: weak, feminine, colored in pastels, etc. My flamelet was directed at Worm in particular, and part of the reason for it was to insult him by lumping him with the group of wankers I just mentioned. It was intended entirely to provoke him to comic wrath for my own amusement, since he reacted so rudely and crudely to my original sarcasm. It was petty - -- that's why it wasn't on the list until he put it there. So please don't treat the phrasing of personal insults that weren't meant for the list as statements of policy. They aren't. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 21:17:08 -0400 From: "Bachrach" Subject: Re: [mitnick] response from james@nashscene - -----Original Message----- From: black sheep To: mitnick@2600.com Date: Sunday, September 27, 1998 3:00 AM Subject: [mitnick] response from james@nashscene >>I must admit that I made some factual errors (largely because >>I got my information from CNN and MSNBC). Houston we have a problem... The minute you see that you know that there's something wrong with society. I mean, if that said the national enquirer it would be no big deal, but those are two of the largest and most respected news agencies in the country, and with CNN, most likely the world. (CNN international is all over in Europe and Asia.) >>in my opinion, you are absolutely right to be upset about it-- >>no one should be denied due process). let's see, we have the fourth amendment (they didn't show him a warrant even though he demanded it), the sixth (speedy trial), the first (right to freedom of speech and association, [no computer]), and I think I may even be missing a few.... Oh yeah, equal representation. - ----------------------------------- | are you helping distributed.net to crack RC-5 64 encryption? you should be. | are you on distributed.net and on team #39, cracking for kevin? you should be. - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of mitnick-digest V1 #168 *****************************