mitnick-digest Thursday, October 8 1998 Volume 01 : Number 174 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 18:12:46 -0500 From: Adam Subject: Re: [mitnick] Screw the Goverment!! terje wrote: > come on now being canadian i always found it to be a historical american > fact that presidents never inhale. > > terje He might not of inhaled but he sure screwed the slut intern!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 19:40:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron D. Ball" Subject: Re: [mitnick] unalienable rights On Wed, 7 Oct 1998 Antboy23@aol.com wrote: % If we let the Gov tread on the rights of the Governed, well, we might as % well bring back the Third Reich. Same diff. It's time to start a % revolution, not a revolution or blood and war, but a revolution of the % mind. We must stand united against injustice, or suffer the same fate we % will. Does Godwin's law apply to mailing lists? Kevin is, indeed, suffering a great injustice at the hands of certain elements of our government. We, as citizens, do indeed have a duty to stand united against this injustice and to take action to correct it. But this is not a revolution any more than the civil rights movement was; this is merely an exercise of the cybernetic mechanism of our Constitution. It is our duty to do whatever we can within the legal system, and to enlist the aid of our fellow citizens through lawful action and perhaps through acts of civil disobedience; only if this government has truly and irretrievably failed should we speak of "revolution", in the mind or out of it. Of course, there are people who don't quite understand the Constitution, like a certain high school teacher who was mentioned in an earlier thread; these people, unfortunately, need the revolution of 1776 reenacted in their minds. Perhaps this is what you meant? In any case, our quarrel is not with the Federal government per se -- just with a certain mentality within certain ignorant citizens and the government employees who act on their behalf, and with certain laws said employees have passed. Our mission is to educate these people and correct the damage they have done, not to rip everything up and start it over again. (Of course, there are some of us who believe the FedOS needs a complete rewrite as well as the removal of the hacker-scapegoating bug, but that's outside the scope of the Free Kevin movement.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:02:23 EDT From: Antboy23@aol.com Subject: [mitnick] unalienable rights 2 Aaron D. Ball wrote: ** It is our duty to do whatever we can within the legal **system, and to enlist the aid of our fellow citizens through lawful action The "Legal system" is created only to further distance the rich from the poor. Equil representation, my ass. Just ask OJ if the rich and poor have equal rights under the United States System of Law. They do not. the rich do whatever they please. the HAVE the power, the money, and this government only applies to them. We "HAVE NOT" the money, we "HAVE NOT" the equil representation under law. JUSTICE is the JUST US law of the rich. Aaron D. Ball wrote: **and perhaps through acts of civil disobedience; only if this government **has truly and irretrievably failed should we speak of "revolution" I see a country where prisons are made of revolving doors for murderers, but cryptic cells for those who's only true crime is curiosity(Kevin). FAILURE I see a country where the old rich men on capital hill whip out bills and bullsh*t to pacify the public. You think they care one bit about what happens to anyone but their phat wallets? no. and if we, WE, continue to turn the pacifistic eye, we will all end up like Kevin. What the feds are doing is wrong. but we cant stop it unless we come together. Aaron D. Ball wrote: **"... we speak of "revolution"..." see, now it even sounds like you support the revolution, by simply selecting a passage from the thread. that is what the government does to it's citizens. they create the truth. They manipulate the truth, pacify it, then feed it to us. you think if some rich republican's son, hacked a mainframe, he would spend one night in a cell. HELL NO. This is a country where the "HAV's" beat down the "HAV Not's", and unless we stand united, against this, dogs we shall remain. ANTBOY ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 19:11:53 PDT From: "AnGeL oF DeAtH" Subject: Re: [mitnick] Screw the Goverment!! ha ha ha ha ha very funny. but....what the hell does that have to do with Kevin? hmm...lemme think bout that for a while... AnGel oF DeATh
We all go sometime
ICQ-->8369754 E-Mail-->hells_angels_666@hotmail.com FREE KEVIN >Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 18:12:46 -0500 >From: Adam >To: mitnick@2600.com >Subject: Re: [mitnick] Screw the Goverment!! >Reply-To: mitnick@2600.com > > > >terje wrote: > >> come on now being canadian i always found it to be a historical american >> fact that presidents never inhale. >> >> terje > >He might not of inhaled but he sure screwed the slut intern!! > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 22:53:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron D. Ball" Subject: Re: [mitnick] unalienable rights 2 ANTBOY: There is no such thing is "the government", at least not as you seem to conceive of it in your naive and X-Filesey[0] way. There are laws. These laws are made by members of the legislative and executive branches of the statutory government, implemented by the executive and judicial branches, and corrected by the legistlative and judiciary branches. The statutory government is a bunch of people who happen to hold offices set forth in the Constitution and other government-design specifications. Every officer of the government is put in office either by the will of the people (as expressed in free elections) or by such an officer; hence every officer is either directly or indirectly chosen by election. The laws of this nation are not designed to create injustice; quite the opposite. Unfortunately, elections can be swayed by expensive ad campaigns, officials can be bribed, etc., etc., so the wealthy are able to buy themselves power and influence. This is a Bad Thing. The way to fix this is to convince people (a) that it is a Bad Thing and (b) that it is worthwhile to act against it by voting, by acting to convince other people, and by putting pressure on officials. The idea I'm trying to get you to understand is that this mechanism is the *only* just mechanism for bringing about change, unless the power structure is such that it is impossible. It is *not* impossible, as things like the civil rights movement and local campaign finance reform initiatives prove -- it's just very, very hard. Unless and until it is impossible to effect change by peaceful citizen action, revolutionary propaganda is pure childishness, and autodisenfranchisement that often accompanies it is pure laziness. Instead of ranting about how The Government is Out To Get the Have-Nots and make the Haves richer, why not get the off your fat duff and tell people *this* law is wrong and *this* is why and *this* is how you can fix it -- and if you make a good case often enough, they'll believe you and help you out. It's hard -- a lot harder than coming up with eloquent slogans, as I can tell you from experience both ways. But trying to stir up a revolution when grounds for one don't exist is both futile and WRONG. I am happy to discuss what is wrong with this country with anyone who will listen. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure I have some good ideas for fixing it, or even redesigning it from the bottom up. BUT these ideas don't belong on this mailing list unless they are directly related to Kevin and the LEAs' persecution of hackers. If you wish to read my design for USA 2.0, provide your own, or discuss how to implement them, then send me private email. Otherwise, let's talk about how we can make people aware of Kevin's plight and the "hacker crackdown" and the injustice of both, and what else we can do about them. Sound good? [0] Don't get me wrong -- I *like* the X-Files. I don't, as a rule, trust the government or the powerful people who try to control it. Nevertheless, I think it's very silly to think of it as a coherent Conspiracy or injustice factory as you seem to.[1] [1] For the record, to be perfectly clear, I believe: * that the legal system is or should be concerned with justice -- fair interactions between people -- and not with morality, which it is not the government's place to define. The only things that should be punished are things that cause practical harm to actual people unjustly (yes, this is not perfectly defined; that's why we'd still need judges). * that the current body of law does a moderately poor job of the above, and needs to be changed * that in particular, the current body of law and/or the particular people enforcing it has done tremendous injustice to people like Kevin Mitnick and must be changed with all due speed * that the most effective method for changing the laws is currently voting and organizing * that the present Constitution is not an ideal one, and in an ideal world would be scrapped and rewritten to my specifications ::) * that in the real world the best I can do is vote, organize, and perhaps buy up some remote land and start an experimental community under laws I like * lots more stuff I won't go into now. If you must rebutt, then address these points directly and coherently. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:08:17 EDT From: Phoenxknt@aol.com Subject: Re: [mitnick] Screw the Goverment!! In a message dated 98-10-06 23:14:27 EDT, you write: << I just recently signed up to this list and start really getting in to this stuff and from what i've seen in the past few days I say we should get rid of our god damn goverment. This country was formed on the Constitution, and it seems to me that the morons running our goverment must have been skipping or stoned during school when that part was taught! >> I believe that's like treason or something, we'd all get shot, and i REALLY hope you don't think you're the first to think that, anarchy has been around as long as government has. Anyway, thats a stupid idea, how bouts we keep them out of the lives of netizens instead? - -Absolute Matter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:40:54 -0400 From: patty@inch.com Subject: [mitnick] mitnick event at Internet world If you are in NYC onThursday, October 8th Meet us at Internet World. We will be meeting between 8:30 and 9AM across the street from the Javits center. There is a little plaza around 36th st and 11th aves. We will have stickers fliers and the famous props to do the analog hack. Be there or be square as they say. You can watch what happens if you don't want to be involved by going to; http://www.internetnews.com/iwlive/fall98/sights.html Around 10:15 AM EST and see what happens. Again: We have free registration applications. Free admission (Bring a business card) to the Internet World in New York and a chance to make History or be famous for 15 minutes. Well maybe at least be noticed for15 minutes. Now all you have to do is be over 18 as that's the rule for admission (No there's no nudity or violence). You have to be able to be in NYC on Thursday morning at 8:30 am for a couple of hours and you have to be willing to be tell people all over the world about Kevin. email me off of the list if you are interested in participating in this quirky and fun idea for getting attention. There is nothing illegal - only fun. Patty ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "It Is Easier To Ask Forgiveness Than Permission" :) Check Out The Official "Save Our Station" Website ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:55:06 -0700 (PDT) From: SSR Subject: Re: [mitnick] Ribbons Thanks for noticeing. Yes, I'm still here, I've just been a little overwhelmed lately. The Stainless Steel Rat ******************************************************************************* FREE KEVIN MITNICK www.KevinMitnick.com ******************************************************************************* On Sat, 26 Sep 1998, The Bri Man wrote: > At 13:25 9/26/98 , you wrote: > >Greets! > > > >I know that as of this post from July, you stopped making the ribbons, but > >I've gotten a lot of people interested lately who I think would be into > >wearing them. I'd be willing to send $10 or so if you'd be willing to > send me > >some. Failing that, I could always make them myself--what kind of material > >did you make the ribbons out of? It looked like some kind of grounding wire > >or RF shielding. > > > >Anyway, let me know if you want to make them, and I'll send a check out. > > > >SSR wrote: > > > >> Due to the overwhelming response to my post, I am all out of ribbons. I > >> got to everybody's ribbons sent out, except for TelePhreak's (sorry man, > >> when I got your last e-mail it was too late). If you guys want more > >> ribbons made, I need donations. I may, in the future, be able to invest in > >> the ribbons again, but not anytime soon. That means, the first batch was > >> on me, but now I need your support. Also, due to the fact that I got alot > >> of requests, I had to thin the ribbons out, which means you might not have > >> gotten as many as you wanted. Again, I am soory. > >> So, if you want more ribbons, send donations to: > >> N.L. > >> 810 S. Summit > >> Bremerton, Wa 98312 > >> > >> Thanx, & FREE KEVIN! > >> > >> Sincerley, > >> The Stainless Steel Rat > > > >-- > >Dan Sissman, amateur triviaphile Free Kevin Mitnick! > >http://www.albany.net/~dsissman http://www.kevinmitnick.com > > > > Speaking of Stainlss Steel Rat, whatever happened to him? he seemed to > fall off the earth... i never see any of his posts anymore. you out there > Stainless? > > > > *BRaiN KaNDy* > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 01:19:06 EDT From: Antboy23@aol.com Subject: [mitnick] unalienable rights 3 ok, (Aaron D. Ball), got so far off the point that I addressed his concerns in person, no need for that here. My point is this: In order to bring about change, people must organize. To organize, they must have common ground. If the only common ground we can phind is the fact that the rich are abusing power, and the poor are suffering because of it. Then so be it. What I'm looking for is a revolution of the MIND. One in which we can put down our petty differences, and take on some real issues, like freeing Kevin. That's all. I'm out ANTBOY ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 02:22:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Ball Subject: Re: [mitnick] unalienable rights 3 ANTBOY sez, # My point is this: # In order to bring about change, people must organize. To organize, they must # have common ground. If the only common ground we can phind is the fact that # the rich are abusing power, and the poor are suffering because of it. Then so # be it. ... My point is this: the only common ground the people on this *list* have is the fact that Kevin Mitnick and hackers in general are not being treated justly. Broader power issues like the ones you discussed are relevant to those of us who think that way (I do; it looks to me like the big businesses involved are using the government as a tool to crack down on the little people who cost them face by revealing the weaknesses of their multi-million-dollar security systems), but "REVOLUTION" is not the goal of the Free Kevin movement -- education about and action against this injustice are. Talk of "REVOLUTION" scares off anyone who isn't already a revolutionary at heart, which is counterproductive when our goal is to spread a mainstream perception of the injustice of the government's abuse of Mitnick. - -- Aaron D. Ball O- Anyone who imagines that all fruits ripen at the same time as the strawberries, knows nothing about grapes. -- Philippus Paracelsus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 23:47:32 PDT From: "Nevs Goblin" Subject: [mitnick] naive... (off topic) Hmm... Ha ha.. The Founding Fathers... Does anyone really believe that those late guys really cared about the americans? Stop being that naive. They wrote the constitution to get the people on their side in the liberty war. The result was that the founding father mob could earn *lots* of money. Do you think Washington (= Adam Weisenhaupt ;) and Franklin cared about the poor servants and the black slaves? And then they went on and slaughtered the indians... And then they started the big Screw Kevin Mitnick Plot... yep /towie ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 00:54:31 -0700 From: Caliban Tiresias Darklock Subject: Re: [mitnick] naive... (off topic) On 11:47 PM 10/7/98 -0700, I personally witnessed Nevs Goblin jumping up to say: > >Ha ha.. The Founding Fathers... Does anyone really believe that those >late guys really cared about the americans? Stop being that naive. I do. Am I naive? Perhaps. *I* care about my fellow Americans, though, so it's very easy for me to imagine that other people do too. If you don't, that's not my problem. Of course, I've left good jobs making good money over philosophical and ethical differences (like how YOUR tax dollars get spent). Most people think that makes me crazy. I think it makes me principled. Maybe there's not much difference these days, but I'm not that cynical just yet. I practice what I preach, and that's good enough for me. If that's the only thing I ever teach anyone for the rest of my life, and only one other person ever learns it, I'll be a complete success. >They wrote the constitution to get the people on their side in the >liberty war. The result was that the founding father mob could earn >*lots* of money. Prove it. >Do you think Washington (= Adam Weisenhaupt ;) and >Franklin cared about the poor servants and the black slaves? > >And then they went on and slaughtered the indians... For someone who seems so concerned with tolerance, you show remarkably little understanding. At the time, "man" meant "white European Christian male," and everyone was more or less in agreement about that. Everyone else was something *other* than a man. They were magnanimous enough to overlook the "Christian" part, which was a damn big step and a pretty radical viewpoint for the day. In fact, they even overlooked the "European" part to a reasonably large extent. Sure they went and slaughtered the Indians. They had incompatible viewpoints. Indian tribes had this quaint notion that you should respect the things around you, while European culture was still stuck in the two-year-old mindset of "MINE! MINE!" Sure they enslaved the blacks. Black people, after all, weren't really human. They were actually the progeny of Cain, who had been cursed by God, and therefore weren't deserving of any respect. (I don't want to go into this whole thing on the list, but there's a pretty reasonable justification for that conclusion *if* you take the Bible as historical fact, which the founding fathers were generally inclined toward doing.) Was what they did right? Hell no. Did they do it because they were evil? I don't think so. I think people back then had a tendency to fuck up, just like they do today. Well, gee, we were wrong, let's see if we can fix it. A lot of people say we still haven't made up for our past sins and crimes. That reminds me of something; some dumb old saying about the evil men do living after them, while the good is interred with their bones. I suppose we'd all be a lot better off if the founding fathers had left well enough alone, wouldn't we? - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- As the fire burneth a wood, and the flame setteth the mountains on fire; So persecute them with thy tempest, and make them afraid with thy storm. - ---------------------------[ Psalms, 83:14-15 ]--------------------------- Caliban Tiresias Darklock | "Hell, you don't Darklock Communications | know me." FREE KEVIN MITNICK! | - Charles Manson - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass he'll kick the shit out of you. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 06:53:33 -0400 From: che guevara Subject: Re: [mitnick] unalienable rights looks like (sadly) that we've got ourselves an orwellian government, and theres nothing we can do about it Antboy23@aol.com wrote: > "...endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these > are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, > governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers form the > consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes > destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to > abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such > principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most > likely to effect their safety and happiness...." > Declaration of Independence > Adopted in Congress 4 July 1776 > > It seems to me that the US Gov. needs to be reigned in. I, for one, think > that Kevin's unalienable rights, specifically the right to liberty has been > cast aside by the very gov. that "Declared it's independence from the tyranny > of England." There are limitless examples of Congress ignoring the > Constitution. It is a prime example that we find here with the case of Kevin. > The "governed" have the responsibility to take whatever action deemed > necessary to alter or abolish the government that treads on their unalienable > rights. Unfortunately, we (we being either the hacker society as a whole, or > any free thinking member of society that sees these injustices, yet does > nothing to stop it, you choose) fight amongst ourselves. Divide and conquer. > We are our own worst enemies. If we could drop our petty differences for a > time, and come together, we could change the world. Some say the "US Gov is > the best there is, so be happy with it." I disagree, we should never "settle" > for a crappy, abusive Gov. We should always strive for LIFE, LIBERTY, and THE > PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. Kevin is being made an example of, something every > "would be" hacker should take note of. If we let the Gov tread on the rights > of the Governed, well, we might as well bring back the Third Reich. Same diff. > It's time to start a revolution, not a revolution or blood and war, but a > revolution of the mind. We must stand united against injustice, or suffer the > same fate we will. - -- - --++ che guevara ++-- - --++ aim: chejuana ++-- - --++ irc: cguevara (efnet) ++-- - --++ http://www.kevinmitnick.com ++-- - --++ http://cguevara.home.ml.org ++-- __________________________________ "This is the first age that's paid much attention to the future, which is a little ironic since we may not have one." - Arthur C. Clarke ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:42:56 +0200 From: "Plastic Wire Vx" Subject: [mitnick] Anti Kevin Virtual bumper sticker Hi, If this information allready have been coverd then just ignore this post. I was surfing thru some exploit pages and I came across this virtual bumper sticker that said "kill kevin, fuck kevin". Have anyone else seen it? The URL is: http://h4x0rz.4h.com/frame1.html - - Plastic Wire Vx - Don't trust the system, don't trust anyone... _____________________________________________ Web: http://listen.to/plastic IRC: PlasticVX or PwVx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:36:14 -0400 From: Emmanuel Goldstein Subject: [mitnick] today's mitnick demo keep an eye on http://www.internetnews.com/iwlive/fall98/sights.html from around 10:15 am (EDT) on and look for anything... interesting. please try to capture the pictures in case some of us miss it. thanks emmanuel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:35:55 EDT From: EmpAllin@aol.com Subject: Re: [mitnick] Anti Kevin Virtual bumper sticker This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --part0_907853756_boundary Content-ID: <0_907853756@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII In a message dated 98-10-08 09:00:10 EDT, you write: > I was surfing thru some exploit pages and I came across this virtual bumper > sticker that said "kill kevin, fuck kevin". Have anyone else seen it? > > The URL is: http://h4x0rz.4h.com/frame1.html (Thought I would post this for all to see, and please remember I am just the messanger and will not be held responsible for what it says) If you follow the links you end up here http://www.sinnerz.com/fh/bfk.html which has this text..... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ---------------------------------- Ok since I am lazy I am gonna get right to the point.... Kevin Mitnick is a fucking idiot. I am sick of hearing about him. I know there are also a lot of other people sick of hearing about him. So I have started something to strike down against Kevin Mitnick. This page is basically to just let everyone who supports Kevin Mitnick know that they are fucking idiots who have no clue of what is going on and the only reason they are saying bullshit stuff like "FREE KEVIN!!!!" is because they think it is some hip thing to say. Go read the facts for yourself... that guy deserves to be behind bars. I am sick of reading about some fool who thought it would be cool to deface some webpage and put FREE KEVIN MITNICK on it. And I am sick of seeing webpages with the little "Free Kevin" logos on them. So this is everyones chance to rise up out of the slime and let it be known that you don't follow in the paths of other drooling idiots. All you need to do is put a "Burn, Kill Fuck, Kevin" button (which is located at the bottom of this page) on your webpage with a linking to this page. If you are going to put the logo on your page e-mail me to let me know. And if you don't like what I am doing.. fuck you! 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Have anyone else seen it? Perfect example of what's wrong with modern rebels. Rebellion for the sake of rebellion; they don't care one way or the other, so they go whatever direction will piss off the most people. On the bright side, there's no such thing as bad publicity, and it won't mean anything to anyone who doesn't know what Kevin's situation is. End result is the same; more people find out who Kevin is. (And yes, I think it's funny. It's vicious, nasty, and uncalled for, but it's still funny.) - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- As the fire burneth a wood, and the flame setteth the mountains on fire; So persecute them with thy tempest, and make them afraid with thy storm. - ---------------------------[ Psalms, 83:14-15 ]--------------------------- Caliban Tiresias Darklock | "Hell, you don't Darklock Communications | know me." FREE KEVIN MITNICK! | - Charles Manson - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass he'll kick the shit out of you. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 11:17:46 EDT From: Antboy23@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: [mitnick] unalienable rights 3 Aaron D. Ball claims: My point is this: the only common ground the people on this *list* have is the fact that Kevin Mitnick and hackers in general are not being treated justly. Excellent, then that will be our common ground, now what are we going to do about it? ANTBOY ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 11:20:19 EDT From: Antboy23@aol.com Subject: Re: [mitnick] naive... (off topic) /towie wrote: % Do you think Washington (= Adam Weisenhaupt ;) and %Franklin cared about the poor servants and the black slaves? %And then they went on and slaughtered the indians... %And then they started the big Screw Kevin Mitnick Plot... yep No i don't think they cared, and unless we come together and start caring about ourselves, no one will care about us either. ANTBOY ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 11:20:12 EDT From: Antboy23@aol.com Subject: Re: [mitnick] naive... (off topic) /towie wrote: % Do you think Washington (= Adam Weisenhaupt ;) and %Franklin cared about the poor servants and the black slaves? %And then they went on and slaughtered the indians... %And then they started the big Screw Kevin Mitnick Plot... yep No i don't think they cared, and unless we come together and start caring about ourselves, no one will care about us either. ANTBOY ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 11:45:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Ball Subject: Re: Re: [mitnick] unalienable rights 3 On Thu, 8 Oct 1998 Antboy23@aol.com wrote: # My point is this: the only common ground the people on this *list* have is # the fact that Kevin Mitnick and hackers in general are not being treated # justly. # # Excellent, then that will be our common ground, now what are we going to do # about it? (1) donate to Kevin Mitnick's legal defense fund. (2) if qualified and local, volunteer services as expert witness in his defense (3) buy bumper stickers, T-shirts, etc. in order to do (1) and spread the word to others (4) hand out fliers and otherwise make a public case on Kevin's behalf (5) raise the issue with everyone you know and convert them if you can (6) pay close attention to your elected officials' records on related votes, ask them for their opinion on the Mitnick case and similar cases, and *vote accordingly*. (7) inform members of the government of this injustice, and make it known that your support for them depends on their efforts to set it right (8) protest publicly, like they did at 10:15 today if all went well (9) commit civil disobedience (10) either donate to the EFF and similar organizations, or, if you feel they are ineffectual wombats, send them letters telling them so and why, join them and try to change their direction, or start your own such organization I'm sure there are others. - -- Aaron D. Ball O- Look! Before our very eyes, the future is becoming the past. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 12:49:20 -0400 From: "Syrus S. Root" Subject: Re: [mitnick] naive... (off topic) OK, thanks for the anarchy shit, but as you'll recall... We depend on the government to facilitate our daily exist. It helps farmers grow food and protects our system of commerce to see that we can obtain it. It funded the research that allows us to babble like complete idiots with fiber optic speed and reliable packet switching technology. Any fool who hates the government as an entity doesn't understand what the fuck he/she is saying. It isn't an entity. It is a collection of functions some benign, some malevolent, but all only as organized as they absolutely need to be to function. Does that mean we roll over and say thank you when the elements of that same government go after Kevin? Hell no! Do we take abuse because any of the above- Hell no, unless we agree and participate in our own abuse. I submit to the social security system because I value convenience. I've read all that anarchist bullshit about rejecting it... blah blah blah ad nausium. I choose to be a citizen for the benefits and I choose to stand up when it is unfair. I don't riot and throw rocks at cops when I'm pissed, but I have (even as minor) gone to the police station and explained the abuse I felt I had received. I pursued the matter intelligently and earned what I wanted (in that case an apology). It took effort and it took some good advice on dealing with the system , but I made it work. In my humble opinion all those sniveling anarchists who only bitch, but never fix anything are a waste of bandwidth- a resource paid for by me and provided by those evil corporations and the government. I'm so sick of the X-files conspiracy crap I could scream. Have you seen the utter chaos in government operations they can talk about? Imagine if they had to hide it. It only works in small (deviant) groups within the government. People like the prosecutors and special agents who went after Kevin. They need to be stopped. There will always be more people who think they know best and abuse their power. We have to stop our delusional pursuit of the illuminati and get to work stopping these real live idiots who would abuse us. So, lets get back to the point of educating those idiots in government why we won't allow them to do this shit to Kevin. signed, humbly yours, / ------------------------------ End of mitnick-digest V1 #174 *****************************