mitnick-digest Thursday, December 3 1998 Volume 01 : Number 210 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 09:46:16 PST From: "TelePhreak ." Subject: Re: [mitnick] wednesday's hearing these kind of actions upset me. maybe the judge has something to hind, if she understands that when she hands them it people can access them, she shouldnt at all be worring. so basically anyone interested in one of the biggest hacking cases in the last ten years gets investigated by the FBI. Kerry is a great person if anything happens to her......and the gov is behind it.......i'll be the one to start the Free Kerry campiegn. - - - - - - - - ->Phone Rangers<- - - - - - - - - - - F -TelePhreak R Email: AcidHak@Hotmail.com E mIRC: TelePhrk E ICQ: 10886438 K Aol Instant Messanger: TelePhrk 0 E NPA: 908 (NJ) V http://phonerangers.home.ml.org/ I http://welcome.to/phonerangers N - - - - - - - - ->Phone Rangers<- - - - - - - - - - - ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:37:18 -0800 (PST) From: Douglas Thomas Subject: Re: [mitnick] wednesday's hearing I understand that Kerry's actions are well intentioned and are designed to help Kevin's case. But, I must confess, as someone sitting in that courtroom, the request (wrongly or not) had an effect that was not in Kevin's best interest. When the judge is about to make a decision that has a profound effect on Kevin's case, it is probably better that she not be irritated. I know that the request was filed two months ago and Kerry was listed as an independent investigator (which implies no connection with Kevin), but judge Pfaelzer *clearly* understood there to be a connection (although she wouldn't say it) to Kevin. She emphasized the letter coming from North Carolina, for example. The point of all of this is that as much as one has the right to make such requests, and as much as the judge *shouldn't* comment on such actions one way or another, there are consequences to these sorts of actions. If anyone plans to make such requests, or take action regarding Kevin's case, at a bare minimum give his attorney a heads up so that he doesn't get presented with a paper 5 minutes before a hearing and put on the spot to explain what is happening in his client's name. Don is, I am sure, more than happy to indicate whether such things are helpful to Kevin's case or not. I am happy to provide contact info for Don Randolph off list if anyone is interested. Best, Doug On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, TelePhreak . wrote: > these kind of actions upset me. maybe the judge has something to hind, > if she understands that when she hands them it people can access them, > she shouldnt at all be worring. so basically anyone interested in one of > the biggest hacking cases in the last ten years gets investigated by the > FBI. Kerry is a great person if anything happens to her......and the gov > is behind it.......i'll be the one to start the Free Kerry campiegn. > > - - - - - - - - ->Phone Rangers<- - - - - - - - - - - F > -TelePhreak R > Email: AcidHak@Hotmail.com E > mIRC: TelePhrk E > ICQ: 10886438 K > Aol Instant Messanger: TelePhrk 0 E > NPA: 908 (NJ) V > http://phonerangers.home.ml.org/ I > http://welcome.to/phonerangers N > - - - - - - - - ->Phone Rangers<- - - - - - - - - - - > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:44:22 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron D. Ball" Subject: Re: [mitnick] wednesday's hearing On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, Douglas Thomas wrote: # The point of all of this is that as much as one has the right to make such # requests, and as much as the judge *shouldn't* comment on such actions one # way or another, there are consequences to these sorts of actions. I don't think this is something we should tiptoe around. As citizens, we have every right to question whether justice is being done, and an obvious step towards answering that question is determining whether the judge has any financial biases. If the judge strikes out against Kevin because we question her integrity ("question", mind you, not "deny"! The latter one might take offense at, but not the former), then she is not behaving as a judge should and should be removed from the case. This is not some subtle technical point to be debated by expert witnesses, but rather a fundamental right of citizens to demand ethical behavior from our public servants. If we allow the potential for unethical behavior on the part of the judge to prevent us from exercising our rights, we are legitimizing and encouraging that behavior. Rights never exercised because of fear of extralegal punishment are not rights at all. Can I get some outrage here? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:06:58 -0800 (PST) From: Bronc Subject: [mitnick] lamers on the loose http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/4613/index2.html http://www.sinnerz.com/fh Some 'Kill Kevin' sites put up in protest by some dork. I guess I could go off on it but why bother. You'll think what I am thinking after you see them... regards, Bronc Buster ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:33:37 EST From: SkyFireZ@aol.com Subject: [mitnick] Fugitive Hacker Taunts Authorities With Online Journal Fugitive Hacker Taunts Authorities With Online Journal PETER HARTLAUB c.1998 Los Angeles Daily News LOS ANGELES -- Celebrated in the underground world of hacking as a self-styled playboy and a snitch, Justin Petersen has never kept a low profile. After an arrest for minor hacking crimes in the early 1990s, the long-haired, one-legged Hollywood resident turned informant for the FBI, using federal money to supplement his love of fast cars, fast women and Sunset Strip nightclubs. Now, for the second time in five years, he's picked up his hard drives and hit the road -- on the run from the same federal government he used to work for. "Alas, rest assured I am somewhere having fun with a nice-looking lady, enjoying the first freedom I have felt in some time," according to a letter signed "Justin" that showed up recently on his Web page. (A Justin Petersen site can be found at http://www.geocities.com/~justinpetersen/). Federal marshals have issued an arrest warrant for Petersen, accusing him of violating his probation for an earlier hacking conviction. It's a strange twist to the fugitive-law enforcement relationship. While the feds won't say a word about the investigation, technology has allowed Petersen to document his run from the law. The 38-year-old Nebraska native's phone answering machine says "I'm gone, baby" -- but those who leave messages receive responses. His Web site has constant updates, and he's apparently still answering his e-mail. "Frankly, I find this whole situation amusing," he wrote. "Everyone seems so interested in what the hell I'm up to." Petersen, who lost his leg in a motorcycle crash on Sunset Boulevard, has furnished dozens of recent pictures on his Web site -- most showing the hacker with his shirt unbuttoned and an attractive woman on his arm. His last stint as a fugitive lasted from October 1993 to August 1994. Prosecutors claim he hacked into Heller Financial bank while he was on the run and paid himself $150,000, phoning in two bomb threats to make sure wire transfer officers were away from their desks. U.S. District Judge Steven Wilson sentenced Petersen to 41 months in prison for those crimes and a few others, adding a three-year supervised release. He served the time, but court records show that Petersen was accused this summer of violating four tenets of his release agreement -- which ordered him to pay $40,000 and stay away from computers except at work. After an Aug. 24 hearing, attended by Petersen and his lawyer, Wilson sent him to a halfway house, ordered him to abide by the terms of his release and enter a psychological treatment program that was recommended by his probation officer. Less than a month later, he was gone, and Wilson issued a warrant for his arrest. While the case file offers some explanation as to what led up to Petersen's most recent dash from the criminal justice system, federal officials are disclosing very little about their attempts to get him back. "Currently there is an active investigation pending on Mr. Petersen," said U.S. Marshal spokesman Victor Zamudio, declining to elaborate. Also mum was David Schindler, the assistant U.S. Attorney who prosecuted Petersen and is getting ready for the trial of hacker Kevin Mitnick. Schindler declined to comment beyond the contents of the case file. Officials at the U.S. Probation office declined to comment on the case at all. Unlike the feds, Petersen apparently is more than happy to discuss every aspect of his run from the law, as long as the discussion takes place online. Hours after a message was left on his telephone answering machine seeking comment, a letter appeared on his Web page, explaining that he took a job overseas. "Regarding my fugitive status, this is mostly a nonstory," Petersen wrote. "I had a personality conflict with my parole office and could not come to terms." He ended the note with a request to "report responsibly." "Your life history and financial records are only keystrokes away," he warned. The Internet is alive with rumors concerning Petersen's whereabouts. Kevin Poulsen, a convicted hacker Petersen helped put away for a five-year jail term, since served, has typed several articles in his column on ZDNet (http://www.zdnet.com/zdtv/cybercrime). In a recent column, Poulsen called Petersen "an aging Lothario fallen on hard times and perhaps struggling to hold on to some semblance of his flamboyant lifestyle." One apparently false rumor has U.S. Marshals desperately trying to track Petersen down to testify in the Jan. 19 trial of hacker Mitnick, a former Pierce College student who faces various charges that stem from his own fugitive hacking spree. While Schindler said the Mitnick case "is not based on Mr. Petersen's testimony," he declined to comment on his witness list. Attorney Richard Sherman, who is defending one of Mitnick's co-defendants, said Petersen will not testify. "The government has stated in writing that Justin Petersen isn't going to be a witness in this case," Sherman said. Sherman laughed at the suggestion that he or Mitnick's lawyer Donald Randolph might make Petersen a defense witness. "Given his history, would you?" he said. Either way, Sherman expects Petersen to find his way back to jail. "He should be back in custody soon," Sherman said. "He's not very successful in his running endeavors." Petersen, not surprisingly, addressed that topic, too, revealing that he may even end all the fuss himself. "I am still considering simply turning myself in and getting it over with," he said. "Regardless, if I happen to get apprehended, it will be of little concern to me." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:41:17 -0800 (PST) From: rOTTEN Subject: Re: [mitnick] wednesday's hearing On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, Aaron D. Ball wrote: > I don't think this is something we should tiptoe around. As citizens, we > have every right to question whether justice is being done, and an obvious > step towards answering that question is determining whether the judge has > any financial biases. If the judge strikes out against Kevin because we > question her integrity ("question", mind you, not "deny"! The latter one > might take offense at, but not the former), then she is not behaving as a > judge should and should be removed from the case. This is not some subtle > technical point to be debated by expert witnesses, but rather a fundamental > right of citizens to demand ethical behavior from our public servants. If > we allow the potential for unethical behavior on the part of the judge to > prevent us from exercising our rights, we are legitimizing and encouraging > that behavior. Rights never exercised because of fear of extralegal > punishment are not rights at all. > > Can I get some outrage here? I agree with Aaron D. Ball completely. If Mitnick were being treated fairly, a request of her financial records wouldn't be necessary. Since she's been consistently unreasonable with him, one would be called to question her integrity. (Question, not deny, as Aaron eloquently put it) I can't say anything in addition to Aaron D. Ball's post, as it was well written, so I'll give the standard Mitnick List "Me Too". I am outraged as well. <..rOTTEN..> nobody move, nobody get hurt error187(1) critical failure - - - - - - To do: 1) Update my "To do" list. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:44:26 EST From: SkyFireZ@aol.com Subject: Re: [mitnick] **off-topic**Chapters... In a message dated 12/1/98 5:08:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, jd00579@yahoo.com writes: << I didn't ask a question, you fucking jerk. You commented on something I posted. Go home and suck your mothers dick! >> Wow.. real mature.. and important information as well.... Acid ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:59:02 EST From: Bobwil623@aol.com Subject: [mitnick] Re:wednesday's hearing, pfaelzer's reaction, and a journalist's comment i'm glad to read of doug thomas' posts to the list. i've read mr. thomas' reports on the mitnick case, and appreciate his ability to write articles that are respectful of differing opinions about the km's trial. that said, a few thoughts on doug's recent post to the list, and some of the replies... > ... The point of all of this is that as much as > one has the right to make such requests, and > as much as the judge *shouldn't* comment on such > actions one way or another, there are > consequences to these sorts of actions. quite true. which is something i've encouraged people to consider when they post nonsensical things to this list like "hack the [put your favorite target here]'s computers!!". as i said, nonsensical, and they create consequences for the very individual we're supposedly interested in supporting. however, that a federal judge can comment in open court, and "place the government on notice" that she's concerned of actions that others may take on the defendant's behalf (without the knowledge or approval of defendant) subsequent to receiving a legal inquiry, filed consistent with all laws, indicates that judge's acceptance of the prosecution's view of events a priori, and the defendant no longer has the advantage of an impartial judge. this situation -- a judge whose public statements support the interpretation by reasonable people of bias and a predetermination of the defendant's guilt or innocence -- goes to the heart of our judicial system. see this link for a 10-part series on prosecutorial malfeasance and the role played in enabling the imprisonment of innocent people a day or so ago, i posted a letter to an AP editor notifying AP formally that allegations made in an AP article are false; that letter requested an immediate retraction as well. unfortunately, the media are focused on The Myth of Kevin Mitnick, or TMoKM, to the exclusion of presenting the key issues that my posts have identified on this list (egregious violations of journalistic ethics by john markoff, to name just one of those key issues). TMoKM represents the prosecution's spin on events as well, most notably the spin desired by lead prosecutor david schindler. thus, the media espouse the prosecution's point of view, which means they -- the media -- doing their job. mr. schindler has achieved some prominence within DOJ by virtue of his recent conviction and subsequent imprisonment of the former governor of arizona, fyfe? symington. any federal prosecutor in their mid-30s in the DOJ who brings down a governor is a "shining star," and as such, is in line for promotion or possible appointment to the federal bench. winning a case based on TMoKM would only enhance that reputation. mr. schindler is the key reason, in this writer's opinion, for the dramatic overcharging of kevin mitnick. the overcharging of the offenses combined with TMoKM are the principle reasons this case hasn't been settled, and the principal reason kevin mitnick is in jail without a bail hearing, and without bail. let's see some articles in the OJR, or Online Journalism Review (for whom mr. thomas writes so well), that examine the media's role in avoiding substantive issues like: judicial bias; prosecutorial malfeasance; and media manipulation. let's see some articles in the l.a. times that discuss TMoKM and how it fits the desire of USG officials to control digital information transactions worldwide. and last but not least, let's see mr. markoff contribute 10% of his winnings on the back of kevin mitnick to mr. mitnick's defense. now *there's* a concept.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 16:00:25 EST From: SkyFireZ@aol.com Subject: Re: [mitnick] Poem/ Chapter Bylaws > Next, i really didnt think we would have to send out a copy of the > bylaws to everyone....i figured there would be a main site, where > everyone can access the bylaws, and print them out. >> Who says that everyone joining the Kevin Mitnick chapters has access to the interenet? I know the majority will, but there should be a way for people who dont to retrieve information.... AcidRayne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:35:38 -0800 From: "Caliban Tiresias Darklock" Subject: Re: [mitnick] lamers on the loose - -----Original Message----- From: Bronc To: mitnick@2600.com Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 12:23 PM Subject: [mitnick] lamers on the loose >http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/4613/index2.html >http://www.sinnerz.com/fh > >Some 'Kill Kevin' sites put up in protest by some dork. I guess I could go >off on it but why bother. You'll think what I am thinking after you see >them... The reasoning behind this (I've mailed the creator of this movement extensively about it) isn't what it looks like. The problem FH is seeing, and which I have seen as well to some extent, is that a lot of people are plopping "Free Kevin" banners on their sites without the slightest clue who Kevin is. They just think this is what hackers do. Hackers want to free Kevin! Who the hell is Kevin? Who cares! I want him free, too! Why? Because I'm a k-rad ultrac00l evil hax0r! This "Free Kevin" banner proves it! The *point* of the "Kill Kevin" movement is to whack people upside the head with it and get them to think a little about why they're involved. It is actually INTENTIONAL for the banner of this corollary movement to be picked up and displayed by morons and jerks -- the same morons and jerks who thought they should put a "Free Kevin" banner on their site just to prove they were real hackers. It's siphoning off some of the detritus from our own ranks, the people who were just trying to yell and scream and didn't really care what they were saying. (I do regret this won't siphon off ALL of it.) The "Free Kevin" banner -- and I have said this before, but it generated no response -- is becoming an annoyance. It does not mean anything anymore. All it says is that the person who made this web page knows how to put a banner image on his site and link it. This DOES NOT MEAN that there aren't lots of well-informed people who are really involved with the issues and interested in the trial putting up the banner! There are! But what we can't prevent, in our efforts to disseminate information, is people putting it up and not knowing squat about why they should care. It is no longer statement, it is merely canon. The "Free Kevin" banner says absolutely nothing of value, and may in fact HARM our efforts by being placed on pages that we don't want it on -- like all over warez sites, or on hacked web pages, or on some lame asshole's page about cracking root on obsolete versions of Solaris. I don't use the banner anymore, because it's become a turn-off for many people. Instead, I use text alone, and don't mention Kevin's name at all. FH agrees that Kevin is in a bad situation and something needs to be done about it. I agree that the banner has become irrelevant at best and detrimental at worst. In consideration of what FH is doing and why, I'd have to say that the end result is still to get people seeing Kevin's name all over the place and wondering what the heck is going on. The controversy in and of itself will add weight to the situation and intrigue a greater number of people. There is, as many people have said, no such thing as bad publicity. ;) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 13:25:21 PST From: "TelePhreak ." Subject: Re: [mitnick] Poem/ Chapter Bylaws well, i figure if an intire chapter is compiled and one or two people dont have access, then they could just ask the rep or someone else for a copy.. - - - - - - - - ->Phone Rangers<- - - - - - - - - - - F -TelePhreak R Email: AcidHak@Hotmail.com E mIRC: TelePhrk E ICQ: 10886438 K Aol Instant Messanger: TelePhrk 0 E NPA: 908 (NJ) V http://phonerangers.cjb.net/ I http://welcome.to/phonerangers N - - - - - - - - ->Phone Rangers<- - - - - - - - - - - ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 16:26:34 EST From: DOCGGG@aol.com Subject: Re: [mitnick] wednesday's hearing hmm, this figures. the judge is scared of the truth. She has no idea what the hell is going on. Hell, she should of listened to us in the first place.. She was dealing with "people who could take down the internet in 30 minutes" oh oh, that was her mistake....now, she's feared of us...so she gets the government involved. bah. Doesn't the government have something else to do? Pisses me off along with the numerous things i've heard. Damnit. Now, someone gets in trouble for displaying documents that are legal and anyone can have? Wow, that's something i haven't heard before. THis is bullshit, and it's time for some reaction. pardon the aol address - ----a pissed off person demanding justice ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 13:32:34 PST From: "TelePhreak ." Subject: [mitnick] ZDTV ra file correction its http://www.intac.com/~santon/zdnet.ram not http://www.intac.com/~santon/zdnet.rm sorry... - - - - - - - - ->Phone Rangers<- - - - - - - - - - - F -TelePhreak R Email: AcidHak@Hotmail.com E mIRC: TelePhrk E ICQ: 10886438 K Aol Instant Messanger: TelePhrk 0 E NPA: 908 (NJ) V http://phonerangers.cjb.net/ I http://welcome.to/phonerangers N - - - - - - - - ->Phone Rangers<- - - - - - - - - - - ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 16:33:58 EST From: FallOut4E@aol.com Subject: Re: [mitnick] bail The only logic behind this that I can think of is that the Gov. isn't worried about someone going around killing mere civilians, because serial killers aren't a threat to them. Someone with more knowledge about computers and how to defeat security is. They think of Kevin as a threat to "national security", and want to stop him at all costs. In a message dated 12/2/98 7:28:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, emmanuel@2600.com writes: > From today's paper: > > "An 18-year-old man charged yesterday with fatally shooting his parents, > grandfather, brother, and his brother's girlfriend confessed and said he > wasn't getting along with his father, the prosecutor said. Seth Privacky > of Muskegon, Michigan said he shot the five in their heads at close range, > execution-style. His classmate, 18-year-old Steven Wallace, was arraigned > on the same charges. Both were jailed on $5 million bail." > > In all likelihood, if they come up with 10% of that amount in cash, they > can walk out of jail for $500,000. If they demand the full amount (and the > only time I've seen that happen is with the Bernie S. case), they would have > to pay the full $5 million. > > If Bill Gates put up every penny he had for Kevin, they still wouldn't > let him out of prison. Not for any amount of money. > > You can kill five people in cold blood and get bail. You copy files from > a large corporation and you don't even get a hearing. I really want to > hear the logic behind this. > > emmanuel > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 16:40:05 EST From: FallOut4E@aol.com Subject: Re: [mitnick] bail I agree with your suggestion, but I don't think the "MTV crowd" are the ones we want to appeal to. They are the same sort of crowd that goes to the mall every day to hang out. Although, the more people that know about Kevin the better. In a message dated 12/2/98 8:22:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, DOCGGG@aol.com writes: > Even if you go down to where MTV is , and just show a sign that say's > "www.freekevin.com" > i was watching MTV the other day, and saw people with all sorts of signs. > Hell, it doesn't seem that hard for one person atleast to just go down there, > > atleast you'll inform those who watch MTV at that time. > Hell, it's a suggestion. We need more things to happen... > This is bullshit and it can't keep going on. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 13:20:40 PST From: "TelePhreak ." Subject: [mitnick] ZDTV Report on Trial (RA URL) a couple minutes ago zdtv did a report on kevins trial. I made a ra copy of the broadcast. the first second or two got cut off, and its poor recording quallity, so you may have to turn up you volume and listen carefully. http://www.intac.com/~santon/zdnet.rm - - - - - - - - ->Phone Rangers<- - - - - - - - - - - F -TelePhreak R Email: AcidHak@Hotmail.com E mIRC: TelePhrk E ICQ: 10886438 K Aol Instant Messanger: TelePhrk 0 E NPA: 908 (NJ) V http://phonerangers.cjb.net/ I http://welcome.to/phonerangers N - - - - - - - - ->Phone Rangers<- - - - - - - - - - - ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 13:23:05 PST From: "TelePhreak ." Subject: Re: [mitnick] lamers on the loose people have their own right to an opinion, if they decide to have a kill kevin banner, thats their decision. but ask them why they feel that why, i bet you'll get a simple and stupid answer. - - - - - - - - ->Phone Rangers<- - - - - - - - - - - F -TelePhreak R Email: AcidHak@Hotmail.com E mIRC: TelePhrk E ICQ: 10886438 K Aol Instant Messanger: TelePhrk 0 E NPA: 908 (NJ) V http://phonerangers.cjb.net/ I http://welcome.to/phonerangers N - - - - - - - - ->Phone Rangers<- - - - - - - - - - - ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 16:43:15 EST From: SkyFireZ@aol.com Subject: Re: [mitnick] bail << > > You can kill five people in cold blood and get bail. You copy files from > a large corporation and you don't even get a hearing. I really want to > hear the logic behind this. >> The logic?? The logic is the government is power hungry.... However they dont care about the pathetic small brained killers. They are afraid of people like Kevin Mitnick, and people like hackers because of their education. Hackers dont need to kill people, because they have the education and the morals to know right from wrong. Its people like Kevin Mitnick that question the government, and big brother wouldnt want that! Now, we let a cold blooded killer go, make the money, and who cares if he kills again so long as we get the bail cash!! He's not smart enough to do anything positive for his fellow people..... however, Kevin Mitnick.... hackers... they look to contribute positively towards society, and if that means questioning authority... thats what theyll do! The government cant have that, so hackers as a whole, are locked up for as long as possible... no questions asked... Let me summarize this amizingly confusing statement: 1. Gov'mnt doesnt care if killers walk free... so long as they arent threatened in their big houses, on their giant secret service protected mountain... 2. Hackers are concidered a hostile threat due to their access to information, and goal to make the public aware of it.. 3. Bail is just cash for the government, and the government would rather keep power and lose some money, then have Kevin and people like him walk the street and "corrupt" the minds of the brainwashed public. 4. FREE KEVIN =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- AcidRayne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 17:00:26 -0500 (EST) From: Macki Subject: Re: [mitnick] wednesday's hearing On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, Douglas Thomas wrote: > I understand that Kerry's actions are well intentioned and are designed to > help Kevin's case. But, I must confess, as someone sitting in that > courtroom, the request (wrongly or not) had an effect that was not in > Kevin's best interest. When the judge is about to make a decision that > has a profound effect on Kevin's case, it is probably better that she not > be irritated. I disagree. Irriated is an understatment, I don't see how Judge Pfaelzer could possibly have anymore contempt for Kevin and 2600 than she already does. In many ways there is nothing to loose, however there is much to gain by exploiting a judge who is insane. The key in this instance was that the Judge responded to a normal, reasonable request, with an emotional scolding... If she makes a habit of this, or can be made to blow up even worse, perhaps Kevin can get a new Judge. --Macki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:10:04 -0800 (PST) From: rOTTEN Subject: Re: [mitnick] Poem/ Chapter Bylaws On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, TelePhreak . wrote: > well, i figure if an intire chapter is compiled and one or two people > dont have access, then they could just ask the rep or someone else for a > copy.. oh shut up already. <..rOTTEN..> nobody move, nobody get hurt error187(1) critical failure - - - - - - To do: 1) Update my "To do" list. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 17:12:34 EST From: DINOMITE1@aol.com Subject: Re: [mitnick] Poem/ Chapter Bylaws In a message dated 12/03/98 4:46:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, SkyFireZ@aol.com writes: << > Next, i really didnt think we would have to send out a copy of the > bylaws to everyone....i figured there would be a main site, where > everyone can access the bylaws, and print them out. >> Who says that everyone joining the Kevin Mitnick chapters has access to the interenet? I know the majority will, but there should be a way for people who dont to retrieve information.... AcidRayne >> I think that we need to just forget the what-ifs, when/if a problem a rises, it can be taken care of ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 17:21:43 -0500 From: Dan Sissman Subject: Re: [mitnick] wednesday's hearing Douglas Thomas wrote: > I understand that Kerry's actions are well intentioned and are designed to > help Kevin's case. But, I must confess, as someone sitting in that > courtroom, the request (wrongly or not) had an effect that was not in > Kevin's best interest. I appreciate your perspective, but ultimately, even Judge Pfaelzer's outburst may prove to be in Kevin's best interest. I haven't seen the transcripts yet, but if Judge Pfaelzer made statements on the record that indicate an intent to judge Kevin for actions he had no control over, that would probably improve his chances for a successful appeal in the event that the trial ever actually comes to pass and he is convicted. Looking into Judge Pfaelzer's publicly disclosed financial records is too important a step to bypass for fear of upsetting her. Suppose it turns out she holds stock in Motorola, or Nokia, or any of the other companies alleging losses due to Kevin's actions? wouldn't that information be absolutely critical to Kevin's defense? I don't believe that Judge Pfaelzer's response necessarily means there's anything fishy in her portfolio. It's natural to get defensive when someone's checking up on you, even if you haven't done anything wrong. That doesn't change the fact, though, that public disclosure is an explicit requirement for her job. If she were really concerned about her privacy, she never should have agreed to sit on the bench. She can complain all she wants, but the moment she does anything more than that, she's in trouble. - -- Dan Sissman, amateur triviaphile Free Kevin Mitnick! http://www.albany.net/~dsissman http://www.kevinmitnick.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 17:44:20 -0500 From: Emmanuel Goldstein Subject: Re: [mitnick] ZDTV Report on Trial (RA URL) On Thu, Dec 03, 1998 at 01:20:40PM -0800, TelePhreak . wrote: > a couple minutes ago zdtv did a report on kevins trial. I made a ra copy > of the broadcast. the first second or two got cut off, and its poor > recording quallity, so you may have to turn up you volume and listen > carefully. > > http://www.intac.com/~santon/zdnet.rm according to this, kevin's lawyer is claiming he's close to a plea agreement. i can't imagine this being accurate and i fail to see the advantage in claiming such a thing publicly. kevin is adamant about fighting this and winning his freedom - the only plea agreement i could see him accepting would be one that put an immediate end to this nightmare of imprisonment. e ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 17:54:43 -0500 From: kerry Subject: Re: [mitnick] wednesday's hearing At 04:26 PM 12/3/98 EST, you wrote: >Pisses me off along with the numerous things i've heard. Damnit. Now, >someone gets in trouble for displaying documents that are legal and anyone can >have? Wow, that's something i haven't heard before. THis is bullshit, and One thing I want to say - that document was never displayed anywhere, and I'm not going to do that. Apparently the problem is the mere fact that the documents were even _requested_ in the first place... kerry *********************************************************** FREE KEVIN bumperstickers http://www.mindspring.com/~jump0 *********************************************************** PO Box 17435 - Raleigh NC 27619 - email jump0@mindspring.com checks/money orders payable to "Free Kevin Publicity Fund" *********************************************************** Stickers are sold at cost plus postage - we make no profit from this effort - donations are split equally between Kevin's Defense Fund and the Free Kevin Publicity Fund. *********************************************************** F R E E K E V I N http://www.KevinMitnick.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 18:57:01 EST From: SkyFireZ@aol.com Subject: Re: [mitnick] bail In a message dated 12/3/98 1:59:32 PM Pacific Standard Time, FallOut4E@aol.com writes: << I agree with your suggestion, but I don't think the "MTV crowd" are the ones we want to appeal to. They are the same sort of crowd that goes to the mall every day to hang out. >> Hey, wait..... i believe it was The Mentor (dare i drop the name?) who first stated that descrimination and bias (and the lack thereof) is what made hackers unique.... I am the "Mtv crowd". I dont watch Mtv, but I'm sure Im easily labeled an "Mtv watcher" or "Mallrat" (lets not forget that a lot of 2600 meetings are held in malls) I go to the mall, and I gurantee you, that you can walk into the arcade of your local mall, and meet people with interests in hacking... Funny, if its not who you want to appeal to... who is your audience?? I doubt disowning the "Mtv crowd" will help Kevin... that goes for the "Mall crowd" as well. Alienating and catagorizing people is not the best technique to gain followers. <> True... and I understand your statement... theres no need to defend yourself, this is in no way an attack at your ideas... just constructive criticism (assuming theres such a thing) AcidRayne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:07:32 EST From: SkyFireZ@aol.com Subject: Re: [mitnick] Poem/ Chapter Bylaws In a message dated 12/3/98 2:33:11 PM Pacific Standard Time, DINOMITE1@aol.com writes: << I think that we need to just forget the what-ifs, when/if a problem a rises, it can be taken care of >> So you suggest....instead of resolving a problem now, you/we wait untill its introduced as problem by becoming an inconvinience to members of the chapter?? Hardly a wise idea if you ask me... AcidRayne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:05:57 EST From: Bobwil623@aol.com Subject: [mitnick] "Europe Is Listening" at wired news... http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/16588.html > Europe Is Listening by Niall McKay > > 5:10 p.m. <2.Dec.98.PST> > The European Union is quietly getting ready to > approve legislation that will allow the police > to eavesdrop both on Internet conversations and > Iridium satellite telephone calls without > obtaining court authorization. > ... > While the new European law is being sold to EU > member states as a means of combating what the > legislation calls "serious and organized" crime, > there is no clear definition of this phrase. > > "It simply concerns any punishable offense," > said Tony Bunyan, director of Statewatch, a > European civil liberties group. a related link is at... http://www.telepolis.de/tp/english/inhalt/te/1667/1.html both sites are extremely instructive, and offer insight into the role that TMoKM plays in enabling the USG's actions to move forward in re international digital information transactions. ------------------------------ End of mitnick-digest V1 #210 *****************************