mitnick-digest Monday, December 14 1998 Volume 01 : Number 219 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 19:56:06 -0800 From: Caliban Tiresias Darklock Subject: Re: [mitnick] lamers on the loose On 07:10 PM 12/13/98 -0500, I personally witnessed SkyFireZ@aol.com jumping up to say: > >I fail to see the incorrect punctuation in the following sentence: > >Does it in any way help Kevin Mitnick to have people who don't know when to >end a sentence, speaking in his defence?? A comma *separates* ideas and elements. There is no such separation in the above. You have added a completely independent clause which should be fully inlined in the sentence: "to have people speaking in his defense" is not specific enough, so you clarify with "to have people who don't know when to end a sentence speaking in his defense" -- which does not require a comma, and inserting one is improper. Commas are, in all fairness, the most commonly misused punctuation in the English language. The English language in general sucks, and has far too many special cases; a C.S. professor I once had said "If you have too many special cases, you're doing it wrong." English is an excellent example. >Perhaps its just me, but thats not the point anyhow. >Why is it that you take such offence from a completely honest comment? Because it was inflammatory and insulting. You came across as saying "if you can't write effectively, don't support Kevin, because he doesn't need your kind of support" -- which isn't at all what you probably *meant*, but it still looks an awful lot like a "LOCALS ONLY" sign (to choose the least offensive of several possibilities). If people want to support Kevin, then they should support Kevin. If they not to speak the English so good for to mean what the things they said, what difference does it make? If they dont know how your suposed to spell everything and maybe they make typos and type long runon sentences that really ouhgt to be more than one sentence what difference does it make? The key factor is that they understand something about what's going on with Kevin, primarily that he's been in prison far too long with no trial. Hopefully they also know something about why he's there and what's going on at the moment, but if they don't, we can educate them. The important part is not to even SOUND like we're some sort of Kevin Mitnick cognoscenti who are more highly qualified than The Rest Of Them to talk about it. Most of us were at some point reasonably uninformed (or misinformed) about it, just like everyone else. There are many here who remember when I first joined the list. There are many here that I remember from when they were first joining the list. Some of those people who have joined since I did are now better informed and "more qualified" than I to discuss the case. A lot of them are just plain smarter than I am in the first place. I don't want to see a line drawn that says "You must be at least THIS SMART to support Kevin" or anything like that, because that's just more fuel for the "Kill Kevin" movement -- and could cost us some potentially valuable members, not because they aren't that smart, but because they find the attitude that fosters such a line to be elitist. And to cover Support Services' response, which I could respond to separately but it would just be one more message in your inbox: If thinking everyone should be able to pledge support for Kevin (regardless of any qualifications) makes me a dick, then bite me. ;) - ----- | Caliban Tiresias Darklock caliban@darklock.com | Darklock Communications http://www.darklock.com/ | U L T I M A T E U N I V E R S E I S N O T D E A D | 774577496C6C6E457645727355626D4974H -=CABAL::3146=- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 20:01:17 -0800 From: Caliban Tiresias Darklock Subject: Re: [mitnick] Check this out, Home Boys... On 06:48 PM 12/13/98 -0800, I personally witnessed Support Services jumping up to say: > >So, this shithead's going to do the rest of his time, a few >more months, then walk away without extended probation. Like, >meanwhile MetniK didn't even have a trial, dewd, and this guy >who turned him in just gets to walk free again. Isn't justice wonderful? Someone said recently on a movie or something I was watching -- or maybe it was a book I was reading, I don't know; this thought just sort of stuck in my head -- that Lady Justice being blind wasn't even half the story. If you want a real idea of what justice is, you need to chop off her legs, roll her around in the dirt, and gang-rape her for a few days. Then you'll have some idea of what justice is like in America. This struck me as remarkably accurate, which is a terrible thing. - ----- | Caliban Tiresias Darklock caliban@darklock.com | Darklock Communications http://www.darklock.com/ | U L T I M A T E U N I V E R S E I S N O T D E A D | 774577496C6C6E457645727355626D4974H -=CABAL::3146=- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 21:02:44 -0800 (PST) From: Hardrock Llewynyth Subject: Re: Odp: [mitnick] letter to the post On Sun, 13 Dec 1998, Support Services wrote: > I agree with Jack Wiley and Crazed Dante. But if you're only > fourteen years old, can you be taken seriously at all? if you don't act like an immature idiot. and it is hard to tell someone's age from email unless it is specifically stated. hardrock - -- blank signature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 00:46:01 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron D. Ball" Subject: [mitnick] Youthful maturity (was letter to the post) Subject line altered to match subject. On Sun, 13 Dec 1998, Hardrock Llewynyth wrote: # On Sun, 13 Dec 1998, Support Services wrote: # # > I agree with Jack Wiley and Crazed Dante. But if you're only # > fourteen years old, can you be taken seriously at all? # # if you don't act like an immature idiot. and it is hard to tell someone's # age from email unless it is specifically stated. The one fourteen-year-old I know commands a lot more respect in her writing than `Support Services'. If the latter did something other than snipe, that might change, but for now I don't see that happening. Seriously, getting high-school kids involved in something serious is definitely a good way to get attention. If someone you (as a forty-year-old editor) would normally dismiss as `just a kid' and expect to have nothing to say but illiterate, snot-nosed whining came out and said something serious and meaningful about an important Constitutional issue, wouldn't you be shocked into taking a serious look at what they're talking about? - -- History, n.: Papa Hegel he say that all we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history. I know people who can't even learn from what happened this morning. Hegel must have been taking the long view. -- Chad C. Mulligan, "The Hipcrime Vocab" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 23:00:24 -0800 (PST) From: rOTTEN Subject: Re: [mitnick] Youthful maturity (was letter to the post) On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Aaron D. Ball wrote: > If someone you (as a forty-year-old > editor) would normally dismiss as `just a kid' and expect to have nothing to > say but illiterate, snot-nosed whining came out and said something serious > and meaningful about an important Constitutional issue, wouldn't you be > shocked into taking a serious look at what they're talking about? Pardon me, but WHAT? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 00:11:28 -0800 (PST) From: Support Services Subject: Re: [mitnick] Youthful maturity (was letter to the post) Dewd -- like this guy Pelota just said he's fucking forty. I can't understand the shit he's spoutin' either, homey... >From what I can gather, if a fourteen year old started talking constitutional shit with me, I'd ask him how many times he's been put through the fuckin' system, man. After he answered, I'd dismiss the shit he's tellin' me, 'cause I'd know all he has to offer is fuckin' idealistic bullshit with a large mix of textbook knowledge. So I'd ditch the mother, and tell him to come back after he's experienced the shit for himself. Capiche, man? On Sun, 13 Dec 1998 23:00:24 -0800 (PST), rOTTEN wrote: > > On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Aaron D. Ball wrote: > > > If someone you (as a forty-year-old > > editor) would normally dismiss as `just a kid' and expect to have > > nothing to say but illiterate, snot-nosed whining came out and said > > something serious and meaningful about an important Constitutional > > issue, wouldn't you be shocked into taking a serious look at what > > they're talking about? > > Pardon me, but WHAT? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:12:25 +1000 From: Reeza! Subject: Re: [mitnick] Check this out, Home Boys... At 07:43 PM 12/13/98 -0800, rOTTEN wrote: >On Sun, 13 Dec 1998, Habeus Crispus wrote: > >> Check it out -- it seems that's what the home-boy wants... > >Dear "Habeus Crispus". > >"homeboy" isn't hyphenated. > That would depend. If he meant the same thing that you meant, no it is not. If he meant another sort of home boy, well, I'll leave it as an exercise of the readers imagination. Reeza! DH Key available on request I'm now an avowed Apatheist - I don't give a damn what the answers to lifes unanswerable questions are. Especially when those answers come from someone with an obvious agenda. --paraphrased from a reply on CypherPunks! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:24:07 +1000 From: Reeza! Subject: Re: [mitnick] Youthful maturity (was letter to the post) You read that meandering drivel, and came away with the understanding that he said he was forty? How??? When I read it, I get the sense that the speaker is bitter and perhaps a victim of your own folly. Why else would a person strike out at someone capable of learning, but to young to comprehend the spin that reality gives the textbook idealism? The youngster needs some maturing, that is all. Reeza! At 12:11 AM 12/14/98 -0800, Support Services wrote: > >Dewd -- like this guy Pelota just said he's fucking forty. >I can't understand the shit he's spoutin' either, homey... >>From what I can gather, if a fourteen year old started talking >constitutional shit with me, I'd ask him how many times he's >been put through the fuckin' system, man. After he answered, >I'd dismiss the shit he's tellin' me, 'cause I'd know all he >has to offer is fuckin' idealistic bullshit with a large mix >of textbook knowledge. So I'd ditch the mother, and tell him >to come back after he's experienced the shit for himself. >Capiche, man? > >On Sun, 13 Dec 1998 23:00:24 -0800 (PST), rOTTEN wrote: >> >> On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Aaron D. Ball wrote: >> >> > If someone you (as a forty-year-old >> > editor) would normally dismiss as `just a kid' and expect to have >> > nothing to say but illiterate, snot-nosed whining came out and said >> > something serious and meaningful about an important Constitutional >> > issue, wouldn't you be shocked into taking a serious look at what >> > they're talking about? >> >> Pardon me, but WHAT? > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 06:58:25 PST From: "Kamikaze Kaze" Subject: [mitnick] Hacking the government computers...2 >Example: If you got a speeding ticket, and you strongly believe that you were >going to speed limit, you don't go and smash the policeman's car windows or >dent it (at least I hope not!) No, you go to court and explain your case, and >hopefully the judge will dismiss it. >You don't solve problems by creating new ones. Mabey not, But if we could go into the goverments computors undetected and mabey put a free kevin-image as their home page, then it would be rather cool. Kamikazen. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:00:41 PST From: "Kamikaze Kaze" Subject: [mitnick] Chapters....11 Is there going to be 2600 metting in sweden? Please reply before christmas. Kamikazen. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:04:29 PST From: "Kamikaze Kaze" Subject: [mitnick] Chapters....2 How can i get the bylaws? Kamikazen. "I never think of the future - it comes soon enough." [albert einstein] ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:25:30 PST From: "Kamikaze Kaze" Subject: [mitnick] Till Johan. Johan, Att använda ett lekikon skulle ta för lång tid, Jag använder all min tid till att läsa de 500 mails! som jag nu har. Jag är ingen galning som tror att jag kan ta över alla datorer i världen. Fattar inte du oxå att hur länge jag än sitter här och läser mails från den här listan så kommer jag troligen inte kunna hjälpa KM. Kamikazen. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:43:29 +0100 From: Johan Hedberg Subject: Re: [mitnick] Hacking the government computers...2 >>You don't solve problems by creating new ones. >Mabey not, But if we could go into the goverments computors undetected >and mabey put a free kevin-image as their home page, then it would be >rather cool. >Kamikazen. You haven't learned a thing, have you? Sit back, shut the f**k up and accept that you have to spend some time reading and learning before you can open your mouth, trying to say some smart things. You can't go on like this. You don't only make yourself look like a fool, all the other listmembers will think that swedes are nothing but stupid, blond, blue-eyed bimbos (and don't reply with some 'I'm not blue-eyed, I'm brown-eyed' crap). Yeah, it would be _cool_ to do a thing as you try to describe. But how smart? Think about it: Would it make Kevin any good or would it make people think that his fans are nothing but immature hackers, trying to get credits for getting in to government computers? One more thing: Get a god damn dictionary. Your spelling is horrible. /Johan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:01:19 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron D. Ball" Subject: Re: [mitnick] Youthful maturity (was letter to the post) On Sun, 13 Dec 1998, rOTTEN wrote: # On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Aaron D. Ball wrote: # # > If someone you (as a forty-year-old # > editor) would normally dismiss as `just a kid' and expect to have nothing to # > say but illiterate, snot-nosed whining came out and said something serious # > and meaningful about an important Constitutional issue, wouldn't you be # > shocked into taking a serious look at what they're talking about? # # Pardon me, but WHAT? We're talking about 14-year-old kids writing letters to the editor, remember? `Support Services' said something to the effect that no 14-year-old is ever going to get respect. I pointed out that old people are generally surprised into paying attention when they hear serious stuff `from the mouths of babes'. Is this so terribly difficult to understand? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:26:08 -0800 From: "Caliban Tiresias Darklock" Subject: [mitnick] Kevin's interests I'd like to send Kevin something for the holiday season, but I'd like to send something that is not related to computers, communications, or hacking. I'd also like it to be something he can have at MDC, and something that he'll like and appreciate. Which underscored something I had never noticed or thought about before -- outside of computers and cell phones, I have no clue what Kevin's interests are! What sort of other things is he interested in? Does he read any particular authors, or anything like that? Is he a fan of any particular movie series or television show? Does he collect anything? What are his hobbies apart from hacking? Would putting info about this on the web page help others to see him as a real person, not just a name attached to a face attached to some alleged crimes? | Caliban Tiresias Darklock caliban@darklock.com | Darklock Communications http://www.darklock.com/ | U L T I M A T E U N I V E R S E I S N O T D E A D | 774577496C6C6E457645727355626D4974H -=CABAL::3146=- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:45:50 -0600 From: "jackdarippa" Subject: Re: [mitnick] lamers on the loose - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 just to let everyone know....this is getting off topic, let's get back to the subject at hand, the disturbing fact that a man can be in prison for 4 years without a trial. jackdarippa - - -----Original Message----- From: Caliban Tiresias Darklock To: mitnick@2600.com Date: Monday, December 14, 1998 12:08 AM Subject: Re: [mitnick] lamers on the loose >On 07:10 PM 12/13/98 -0500, I personally witnessed SkyFireZ@aol.com jumping >up to say: >> >>I fail to see the incorrect punctuation in the following sentence: >> >>Does it in any way help Kevin Mitnick to have people who don't know when to >>end a sentence, speaking in his defence?? > >A comma *separates* ideas and elements. There is no such separation in the >above. You have added a completely independent clause which should be fully >inlined in the sentence: "to have people speaking in his defense" is not >specific enough, so you clarify with "to have people who don't know when to >end a sentence speaking in his defense" -- which does not require a comma, >and inserting one is improper. > >Commas are, in all fairness, the most commonly misused punctuation in the >English language. The English language in general sucks, and has far too >many special cases; a C.S. professor I once had said "If you have too many >special cases, you're doing it wrong." English is an excellent example. > >>Perhaps its just me, but thats not the point anyhow. > >>Why is it that you take such offence from a completely honest comment? > >Because it was inflammatory and insulting. You came across as saying "if >you can't write effectively, don't support Kevin, because he doesn't need >your kind of support" -- which isn't at all what you probably *meant*, but >it still looks an awful lot like a "LOCALS ONLY" sign (to choose the least >offensive of several possibilities). > >If people want to support Kevin, then they should support Kevin. If they >not to speak the English so good for to mean what the things they said, >what difference does it make? If they dont know how your suposed to spell >everything and maybe they make typos and type long runon sentences that >really ouhgt to be more than one sentence what difference does it make? > >The key factor is that they understand something about what's going on with >Kevin, primarily that he's been in prison far too long with no trial. >Hopefully they also know something about why he's there and what's going on >at the moment, but if they don't, we can educate them. The important part >is not to even SOUND like we're some sort of Kevin Mitnick cognoscenti who >are more highly qualified than The Rest Of Them to talk about it. > >Most of us were at some point reasonably uninformed (or misinformed) about >it, just like everyone else. There are many here who remember when I first >joined the list. There are many here that I remember from when they were >first joining the list. Some of those people who have joined since I did >are now better informed and "more qualified" than I to discuss the case. A >lot of them are just plain smarter than I am in the first place. I don't >want to see a line drawn that says "You must be at least THIS SMART to >support Kevin" or anything like that, because that's just more fuel for the >"Kill Kevin" movement -- and could cost us some potentially valuable >members, not because they aren't that smart, but because they find the >attitude that fosters such a line to be elitist. > >And to cover Support Services' response, which I could respond to >separately but it would just be one more message in your inbox: If thinking >everyone should be able to pledge support for Kevin (regardless of any >qualifications) makes me a dick, then bite me. ;) > >----- >| Caliban Tiresias Darklock caliban@darklock.com >| Darklock Communications http://www.darklock.com/ >| U L T I M A T E U N I V E R S E I S N O T D E A D >| 774577496C6C6E457645727355626D4974H -=CABAL::3146=- > - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.0 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBNnVOzdpIpYADgVGcEQLAIQCgkyQpcmzq9FrTkCqu5H9vjD6620EAnR7i LSfzp6sPl9SnR2mSoxi0kQGD =g2UM - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:47:23 -0600 From: "jackdarippa" Subject: Re: Odp: [mitnick] letter to the post - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 yeah, btw i'm 15....maybe you knew or could tell. could you? jackdarippa - - -----Original Message----- From: Hardrock Llewynyth To: mitnick@2600.com Date: Sunday, December 13, 1998 11:41 PM Subject: Re: Odp: [mitnick] letter to the post >On Sun, 13 Dec 1998, Support Services wrote: > >> I agree with Jack Wiley and Crazed Dante. But if you're only >> fourteen years old, can you be taken seriously at all? > >if you don't act like an immature idiot. and it is hard to tell someone's >age from email unless it is specifically stated. > >hardrock > >-- >blank signature > - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.0 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBNnVPKtpIpYADgVGcEQJr/wCg3w59ks/TZce5VvEqFWRvYJAHcpMAn0o0 iyl5pBL/gm8HNCcbHrCt4Fg6 =CzY+ - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:54:21 -0600 From: "jackdarippa" Subject: Re: [mitnick] Kevin's interests - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - - -----Original Message----- From: Caliban Tiresias Darklock To: mitnick@2600.com Date: Monday, December 14, 1998 11:58 AM Subject: [mitnick] Kevin's interests >Would putting info about this on the web page help others to see him as a >real person, not just a name attached to a face attached to some alleged >crimes? > Caliban, i thought you knew this, but "alleged" is so passé! just kidding, sorry couldn't help myself....cuz with the newspaper articles it sure seems that way, no one talks about alleged crimes anymore, they talk about crimes....sad, don't you think? jackdarippa - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.0 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBNnVQzNpIpYADgVGcEQJtkACcDqd4LP1oqYO1xvi4Jmw2gU3gdBcAn3qq FQk2QQ5E1dINgTflcDcCwVJu =iz60 - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:16:43 -0800 From: Brian Subject: Re: [mitnick] Youthful maturity (was letter to the post) At 09:01 12/14/98 , you wrote: >On Sun, 13 Dec 1998, rOTTEN wrote: > ># On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Aaron D. Ball wrote: ># ># > If someone you (as a forty-year-old ># > editor) would normally dismiss as `just a kid' and expect to have >nothing to ># > say but illiterate, snot-nosed whining came out and said something serious ># > and meaningful about an important Constitutional issue, wouldn't you be ># > shocked into taking a serious look at what they're talking about? ># ># Pardon me, but WHAT? > >We're talking about 14-year-old kids writing letters to the editor, >remember? `Support Services' said something to the effect that no >14-year-old is ever going to get respect. I pointed out that old people are >generally surprised into paying attention when they hear serious stuff `from >the mouths of babes'. > >Is this so terribly difficult to understand? Well, I am 15 and I wrote my local newspaper with an editorial on the whole Mitnick Ordeal back when we were all writing letters like crazy. Well, no sooner did I send it, I got a phone call from the editor making sure I sent it and all. The thing is, I put my age on the editorial, and they surely took me seriously. Most likely because of the topic and information/references I put in the article. Not to brag, but just to smooth out the ice on this whole "they dont listen to 14 year olds" argument. -brain kandy- Free Kevin Mitnick - Visit www.kevinmitnick.com ICQ: 6635525 AIM: Msie Kandy E-mail: brainkandy@mindspring.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:45:30 -0800 (PST) From: Support Services Subject: Re: Odp: [mitnick] letter to the post Yea -- I could tell from your handle, man. On Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:47:23 -0600, jackdarippa wrote: > > yeah, btw i'm 15....maybe you knew or could tell. could you? > > jackdarippa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:41:55 +0000 From: kerry Subject: Re: [mitnick] Kevin's interests Caliban Tiresias Darklock wrote: > I'd like to send Kevin something for the holiday season, but I'd like to > send something that is not related to computers, communications, or hacking. > I'd also like it to be something he can have at MDC, and something that > he'll like and appreciate. Which underscored something I had never noticed > or thought about before -- outside of computers and cell phones, I have no > clue what Kevin's interests are! > > What sort of other things is he interested in? Does he read any particular > authors, or anything like that? Is he a fan of any particular movie series > or television show? Does he collect anything? What are his hobbies apart > from hacking? He does likes to read; he likes action, suspense, thrillers, cyber-thrillers, spy stories... that type of thing. He liked Dark Rivers of the Heart by Dean Koontz. And of course, computer books. I'll see if there are any particular authors or books he wants. One thing you could do is print out some book reviews and let him choose a book and then order it for him. Put your name on it and I can relay the message back to you. I don't think they allow many other items. Money orders are one of the best things you can send because then he can buy things in the prison. They have to be postal money orders with his name and inmate number clearly marked on them. You can also send cash, I believe, but I don't know how safe that is. Send him a little something, even a card or a letter, or whatever, if you have the chance. He really appreciates everything that people have sent him, and I think he'd especially appreciate it during the holidays when he can't be with his family. kerry *********************************************************** F R E E K E V I N http://www.KevinMitnick.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:49:24 -0800 (PST) From: Support Services Subject: Re: [mitnick] Hacking the government computers...2 By the way, dewds... In a previous post, I said I could tell if someone were a kid by their email. Well... I betcha Kamikaze is a kid. How do I know? Oh... I heard the voice of God say so. On Mon, 14 Dec 1998 06:58:25 PST, Kamikaze Kaze wrote: > > Mabey not, But if we could go into the goverments computors > undetected and mabey put a free kevin-image as their home page, > then it would be rather cool. - Kamikazen. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:53:19 -0800 (PST) From: Support Services Subject: Re: [mitnick] Youthful maturity (was letter to the post) On Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:24:07 +1000, Reeza! wrote: > > You read that meandering drivel, and came away with the > understanding that he said he was forty? How??? Dewd, let me 'plain it to you... the Pelota guy (Aaron Ball) said so **in his post**. That's how I done concluded he was forty. See... pay attention, homey, and a hole opens up. > Why else would a person strike out at someone capable of > learning, but to young to comprehend the spin that reality... Hey homeboy... I take it you're capable of learning too? Like dewd, it's uncool two talk too us using the wrong form of "too". Like, esse, it should be "but *too* young to comprehend..." Dig? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:55:16 -0800 (PST) From: Support Services Subject: Re: [mitnick] Check this out, Home Boys... Whoa!!! Rad!!!! Like, here's someone on the same crystal!! Hey homeys... Metnik isn't a homeboy... but he is confined to the MDC, so he's a home-boy (can't leave home). Gots it? Dig? On Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:12:25 +1000, Reeza! wrote: > > At 07:43 PM 12/13/98 -0800, rOTTEN wrote: > >On Sun, 13 Dec 1998, Habeus Crispus wrote: > > > >> Check it out -- it seems that's what the home-boy wants... > > > >Dear "Habeus Crispus". > > > >"homeboy" isn't hyphenated. > > > > That would depend. If he meant the same thing that you meant, no it is not. > > If he meant another sort of home boy, well, I'll leave it as an exercise of > the readers imagination. > > Reeza! > > > DH Key available on request > > > I'm now an avowed Apatheist - I don't give a damn what the answers > to lifes unanswerable questions are. Especially when those answers > come from someone with an obvious agenda. > > --paraphrased from a reply on > CypherPunks! > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:26:09 -0800 (PST) From: rOTTEN Subject: Re: [mitnick] Youthful maturity (was letter to the post) On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Aaron D. Ball wrote: > # > If someone you (as a forty-year-old > # > editor) would normally dismiss as `just a kid' and expect to have nothing to > # > say but illiterate, snot-nosed whining came out and said something serious > # > and meaningful about an important Constitutional issue, wouldn't you be > # > shocked into taking a serious look at what they're talking about? > # > # Pardon me, but WHAT? > > We're talking about 14-year-old kids writing letters to the editor, > remember? `Support Services' said something to the effect that no > 14-year-old is ever going to get respect. I pointed out that old people are > generally surprised into paying attention when they hear serious stuff `from > the mouths of babes'. > > Is this so terribly difficult to understand? I didn't understand what you were talking about. Go back and read the first paragraph in this email. <..rOTTEN..> nobody move, nobody get hurt error187(1) critical failure - - - - - - To do: 1) Update my "To do" list. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:30:03 -0800 (PST) From: rOTTEN Subject: Re: [mitnick] Kevin's interests On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, kerry wrote: > He does likes to read; he likes action, suspense, thrillers, cyber-thrillers, > spy stories... that type of thing. He liked Dark Rivers of the Heart by Dean > Koontz. And of course, computer books. I'll see if there are any particular > authors or books he wants. Here's what's going to happen. Kevin's going to get 30 copies of Dark Rivers of the Heart. Watch. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:51:57 -0800 From: "Caliban Tiresias Darklock" Subject: Re: [mitnick] Kevin's interests - -----Original Message----- From: jackdarippa To: mitnick@2600.com Date: Monday, December 14, 1998 10:12 AM Subject: Re: [mitnick] Kevin's interests > Caliban, i thought you knew this, but "alleged" is so passé! just >kidding, sorry couldn't help myself....cuz with the newspaper articles >it sure seems that way, no one talks about alleged crimes anymore, >they talk about crimes....sad, don't you think? Yeah... it seems like the "presumed innocent" clause has fallen by the wayside, which is most clearly illustrated by the state of "sex offender" reporting. I have yet to meet anyone who has been protected by the existence of sex offender lists, but I've met several people who were accused and never convicted (charges not filed, charges dropped, or 'not guilty' verdict) who have been prevented from getting jobs or living in "respectable" neighborhoods because they were on such a list. Why people who were never even charged end up on that list is beyond me. Part of the problem with Kevin's situation is closely related; while he has yet to go to trial, being in prison in and of itself is commonly perceived as proof of guilt. Being arrested is enough, in many cases. From a realistic standpoint, however, it's extremely common that someone is arrested for something they really did do but then manages to get off on a technicality (or at least it appears that way to most people). It's very rare, however, for someone to be arrested for something they never did -- it has to be. If people were commonly arrested for things they didn't do, then being a law-abiding citizen would have no value. In order to believe in the law, people need to believe that if they don't do anything illegal they won't go to jail, and that if they do, they will. Some of the more realistic people understand that the police do make mistakes sometimes, but still need to believe that these misunderstandings are cleared up in short order and have no bearing on the rest of the innocent man's life. Kevin's situation flies in the face of this. People need to believe that he belongs in prison, because the alternative yanks their security blanket away. Having spent much time working with the intelligence community, I have to admit the apparent wisdom of their paranoia. You cannot judge your enemy by his intentions or by his probable responses; you must judge him by his abilities. Kevin's are considerable. From an intelligence perspective, Kevin could be a very dangerous person to have on the street, because all he evidently needs is a few minutes alone with a computer to achieve vast, sweeping results (I will provide no examples, since they could be perceived as suggestions). While you can talk yourself blue in the face about whether he *would* do that, the government can't really take chances with what he would do -- they have to assume that if he CAN, he WILL. Unfortunately, the razors of the intelligence community are designed to work with governments and large agencies, which is why they become so woefully inadequate when applied to terrorist cells and individuals. The information age and its attendant government dependence on computers and the internet has finally made it possible for one man to topple entire countries. Suddenly, the enemy is not a country with X number of nuclear bombs anymore; it's a fifteen year old kid in rural Idaho with a laptop and a modem. That's got to scare the living shit out of the boys down at the CIA. I think I've rambled enough now. ;) | Caliban Tiresias Darklock caliban@darklock.com | Darklock Communications http://www.darklock.com/ | U L T I M A T E U N I V E R S E I S N O T D E A D | 774577496C6C6E457645727355626D4974H -=CABAL::3146=- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:22:22 -0800 (PST) From: rOTTEN Subject: Re: [mitnick] Hacking the government computers...2 On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Kamikaze Kaze wrote: > Mabey not, But if we could go into the goverments computors undetected > and mabey put a free kevin-image as their home page, then it would be > rather cool. > Kamikazen. Yeah, you could do that, or you could start a fundraiser in Kula-Kula village. Tommy and Anika could help and I'm sure that when Poppa came back from sea, he would have some gold for you to send to Kevin. But Tommy and Anika can't help all the time, because their mom makes them go to school while you're out having adventures. Ya! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:11:57 EST From: Bobwil623@aol.com Subject: Re: [mitnick] Kevin's interests #2 > I'd like to send Kevin something for the holiday > season... money orders. as kerry@2600.com writes, > Money orders are one of the best things you can > send because then he can buy things in the > prison... especially phone time. people can buy/trade phone time, and money talks big in this regard. stamps for outgoing mail may not be sent in from the outside, but instead, must be purchased with money on the inside. thus, money orders are quite helpful. > Send him a little something, even a card or a > letter, or whatever, if you have the chance. He > really appreciates everything that people have > sent him, and I think he'd especially appreciate > it during the holidays when he can't be with his > family... my guess is that gestures like this help raise his spirits... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:18:18 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron D. Ball" Subject: Re: [mitnick] Youthful maturity (was letter to the post) On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, rOTTEN wrote: # > # Pardon me, but WHAT? # > # > We're talking about 14-year-old kids writing letters to the editor, # > remember? `Support Services' said something to the effect that no # > 14-year-old is ever going to get respect. I pointed out that old people are # > generally surprised into paying attention when they hear serious stuff `from # > the mouths of babes'. # > # > Is this so terribly difficult to understand? # # I didn't understand what you were talking about. # # Go back and read the first paragraph in this email. ``If someone you (as a forty-year-old editor) would normally dismiss as `just a kid' and expect to have nothing to say but illiterate, snot-nosed whining came out and said something serious and meaningful about an important Constitutional issue, wouldn't you be shocked into taking a serious look at what they're talking about?'' While it does require you to apply your grammatical stack machine a bit more ;than your average sentence, I don't think there's anything wrong with that sentence. To rephrase it in small chunks: ``Suppose you're a forty-year-old editor, and you get a letter with serious and meaningful content from someone you'd normally dismiss as `just a kid'---someone you'd normally expect to have nothing to say but illiterate, snot-nosed whining. Wouldn't this shock you enough that you'd look more closely at the issue?'' Is that better? Sorry if I was unclear. So, do you agree or not? Re another message in this thread: I am amused that `Support Services' thinks I'm forty years old. I *have* been called an embittered dirty old man before, but it's usually meant as a joke. Care to take another guess, young'un? (If you do, please don't devote a whole message to it. A rider on meaningful content or an off-list message is fine.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:36:01 -0500 From: Emmanuel Goldstein Subject: [mitnick] washington post update regretfully, it appears the washington post has no interest in correcting the errors they printed, at least with regards to the mitnick case. we have received no response at all from either mr. sanchez or his editors and there is no indication that any of our appeals or letters to the editor are being taken seriously. this means we have no choice but to regard the washington post in the same manner - we cannot expect them to fulfill their responsibilities to the public and report in a truthful and responsible manner. they have basically put themselves on a par with the new york times although they have not yet managed to profit as greatly from misreporting the mitnick case. emmanuel ------------------------------ End of mitnick-digest V1 #219 *****************************