mitnick-digest        Sunday, December 27 1998        Volume 01 : Number 229




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 13:29:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Hardrock Llewynyth <hardrock@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [mitnick] guiness book of world records

On Sat, 26 Dec 1998, Emmanuel Goldstein wrote:

> it's also rather contrary to what i thought the purpose of the book was.
> "most notorious" is such a subjective category to even include. i was    
> under the impression they only dealt in cold hard numbers. there might
> as well be an entry for most gullible reporter.

the purpose of the book, like the purpose of mewspapers and magazines, is
to sell copy.  the "cold, hard numbers" are no longer sensational enough;
just like straight news is no longer sensational enough.  whoever or
whatever can be exploited to grab the reader's interest.  and mitnick
seems to be in an ideal position to be exploited.

hardrock
- --
blank signature

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:59:08 -0600
From: "jackdarippa" <jackr1pp@unixfreak.com>
Subject: Re: [mitnick] guiness book of world records

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Most Gullible Reporter, eh?  That would be quite a contest...who's
your winner?

jackdarippa
- - -----Original Message-----
From: Emmanuel Goldstein <emmanuel@2600.com>
To: mitnick@2600.com <mitnick@2600.com>
Date: Saturday, December 26, 1998 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: [mitnick] guiness book of world records


>On Sat, Dec 26, 1998 at 02:55:53PM -0500, ksandre wrote:
>> 
>> On Sat, 26 Dec 1998, che guevara wrote:
>> > Subject: Re: [mitnick] guiness book of world records
>> > 
>> > most notorious hacker case
>> > 
>> 
>> OY.  Having that catagory in the _Guiness_Book_ is like throwing
down a
>> guantlet, inviting someone to break it.
>
>it's also rather contrary to what i thought the purpose of the book
was.
>"most notorious" is such a subjective category to even include. i was
   
>under the impression they only dealt in cold hard numbers. there
might
>as well be an entry for most gullible reporter.
>
>emmanuel
>
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:32:12 EST
From: Sacrosantx@aol.com
Subject: Re: [mitnick] guiness book of world records

Most gulible well known 'supposedly' respected newspaper :

#1 New York Times.   

Anyone disagree? 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:47:44 -0500
From: che guevara <cguevara@mindless.com>
Subject: Re: [mitnick] guiness book of world records

naaa...there are more gullible reporters than markoff

Sacrosantx@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Most gulible well known 'supposedly' respected newspaper :
> 
> #1 New York Times.
> 
> Anyone disagree?

- -- 
:che guevara:<cguevara@mindless.com>:
:<aim: OchejuanaO>:<irc: cguevara>:
:<icq: 25188620>:<http://che.findhere.com>:
:<z=n(x/y)>:<pgp key: get it at my site>:
:<spam warning: http://cguevara.home.ml.org/spam.txt>:
"I never think of the future - it comes soon enough." 
				 -albert einstein

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 01:43:48 +0000
From: kerry <jump0@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [mitnick] Post Update

Good job with this letter:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1998-12/26/011l-122698-idx.html

I still can't believe these papers refuse to print retractions for their errors.
But at least they printed this letter -- page A17.

kerry


EmpAllin@aol.com wrote:

> Just thought I would let all of you know that there may be some hope here, to
> some extent.  I got a call today to verify that I wrote the letter I sent
> concerning the error they printed about KDM.  They said that the letter would
> be printed this Saturday on the "Free For All" page. There is a big error in
> on my part, which kinda my funny.  I was just thinking of a different redit
> card file when I wrote it. Oh well.  I don't expect it much but I thought some
> of you might want to watch out for it for you own interests and in case I miss
> it.
>
> -Allin
> http://members.tripod.com/~empallin/Free_Kevin_Mitnick/
>
> "After sometime it's only so much paper"

- --
***********************************************************
FREE KEVIN bumperstickers  http://www.mindspring.com/~jump0
***********************************************************
PO Box 17435 - Raleigh NC 27619 - email jump0@mindspring.com
checks/money orders payable to "Free Kevin Publicity Fund"
***********************************************************
Stickers are sold at cost plus postage - we make no profit
from this effort -  donations are split equally between
Kevin's Defense Fund and the Free Kevin Publicity Fund.
***********************************************************
F R E E  K E V I N  http://www.KevinMitnick.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:17:45 -0500
From: Emmanuel Goldstein <emmanuel@2600.com>
Subject: Re: [mitnick] Post Update

at last, some good news. it took them 16 days and they didn't actually
print a correction but at least we got the word out. congrats to empallin.

we'll change the web page to reflect this and take the post off the
"Do Not Ever Trust Under Any Circumstances" list. maybe next time
they'll check the facts before running the story.

emmanuel

On Sun, Dec 27, 1998 at 01:43:48AM +0000, kerry wrote:
> Good job with this letter:
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1998-12/26/011l-122698-idx.html
> 
> I still can't believe these papers refuse to print retractions for their errors.
> But at least they printed this letter -- page A17.
> 
> kerry
> 
> 
> EmpAllin@aol.com wrote:
> 
> > Just thought I would let all of you know that there may be some hope here, to
> > some extent.  I got a call today to verify that I wrote the letter I sent
> > concerning the error they printed about KDM.  They said that the letter would
> > be printed this Saturday on the "Free For All" page. There is a big error in
> > on my part, which kinda my funny.  I was just thinking of a different redit
> > card file when I wrote it. Oh well.  I don't expect it much but I thought some
> > of you might want to watch out for it for you own interests and in case I miss
> > it.
> >
> > -Allin
> > http://members.tripod.com/~empallin/Free_Kevin_Mitnick/
> >
> > "After sometime it's only so much paper"
> 
> --
> ***********************************************************
> FREE KEVIN bumperstickers  http://www.mindspring.com/~jump0
> ***********************************************************
> PO Box 17435 - Raleigh NC 27619 - email jump0@mindspring.com
> checks/money orders payable to "Free Kevin Publicity Fund"
> ***********************************************************
> Stickers are sold at cost plus postage - we make no profit
> from this effort -  donations are split equally between
> Kevin's Defense Fund and the Free Kevin Publicity Fund.
> ***********************************************************
> F R E E  K E V I N  http://www.KevinMitnick.com
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 23:33:33 EST
From: EmpAllin@aol.com
Subject: Re: [mitnick] Post Update

In a message dated 98-12-26 20:20:50 EST, emmanuel@2600.com wrote:

> at last, some good news. it took them 16 days and they didn't actually
>  print a correction but at least we got the word out. congrats to empallin.

I'm just doing my part to try and get the truth out.  As I stated previously
there is a glaring error on my part concerning the number of cards in the file
but so you know they did edit this down some. I do not have a copy of the
original but I do know they cut out the part refferencing kevinmitnick.com.  

>  we'll change the web page to reflect this and take the post off the
>  "Do Not Ever Trust Under Any Circumstances" list. maybe next time
>  they'll check the facts before running the story.

Maybe they will.  Maybe they wont.

I am including the letter for those without access to it and also so anyone
who may have a print copy of this can identify it so they can contact me.

- -Allin


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1998-12/26/011l-122698-idx.html
Justice for Hackers
Saturday, December 26, 1998; Page A17 

In a recent article on hacker Justin Petersen's run from the law 
["Police Want Site More Than Web Address for Escaped Calif. Hacker," 
news story, Dec. 10], Rene Sanchez wrote, "Next spring, Kevin Mitnick, 
the only hacker ever to make the FBI's Ten Most Wanted list, will face 
trial here on charges that include stealing thousands of credit card 
numbers."

While it is true that Mitnick evaded arrest for some time, he is not 
charged with stealing these card numbers, according to the indictment 
against him. The charges were dropped because the file of approximately 
4,000 Netcom users' credit card numbers had been floating around the 
Internet for some time before Mitnick ever downloaded it.

While he did posses this file, there is no proof he ever used any of 
these numbers.

Mitnick has been in jail for more than 3 1/2 years, without bail or a 
bail hearing. The most recent delay in the trial is due primarily to the 
government's refusal to obey due process, but I do not see you reporting 
that. It would be nice to see some fair reporting.

- -- Allin McFarland 

© Copyright 1998 The Washington Post Company

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 23:33:33 EST
From: EmpAllin@aol.com
Subject: Re: [mitnick] Post Update

In a message dated 98-12-26 20:20:50 EST, emmanuel@2600.com wrote:

> at last, some good news. it took them 16 days and they didn't actually
>  print a correction but at least we got the word out. congrats to empallin.

I'm just doing my part to try and get the truth out.  As I stated previously
there is a glaring error on my part concerning the number of cards in the file
but so you know they did edit this down some. I do not have a copy of the
original but I do know they cut out the part refferencing kevinmitnick.com.  

>  we'll change the web page to reflect this and take the post off the
>  "Do Not Ever Trust Under Any Circumstances" list. maybe next time
>  they'll check the facts before running the story.

Maybe they will.  Maybe they wont.

I am including the letter for those without access to it and also so anyone
who may have a print copy of this can identify it so they can contact me.

- -Allin


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1998-12/26/011l-122698-idx.html
Justice for Hackers
Saturday, December 26, 1998; Page A17 

In a recent article on hacker Justin Petersen's run from the law 
["Police Want Site More Than Web Address for Escaped Calif. Hacker," 
news story, Dec. 10], Rene Sanchez wrote, "Next spring, Kevin Mitnick, 
the only hacker ever to make the FBI's Ten Most Wanted list, will face 
trial here on charges that include stealing thousands of credit card 
numbers."

While it is true that Mitnick evaded arrest for some time, he is not 
charged with stealing these card numbers, according to the indictment 
against him. The charges were dropped because the file of approximately 
4,000 Netcom users' credit card numbers had been floating around the 
Internet for some time before Mitnick ever downloaded it.

While he did posses this file, there is no proof he ever used any of 
these numbers.

Mitnick has been in jail for more than 3 1/2 years, without bail or a 
bail hearing. The most recent delay in the trial is due primarily to the 
government's refusal to obey due process, but I do not see you reporting 
that. It would be nice to see some fair reporting.

- -- Allin McFarland 

© Copyright 1998 The Washington Post Company

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 02:31:53 -0500
From: Emmanuel Goldstein <emmanuel@2600.com>
Subject: Re: [mitnick] guiness book of world records

ok, i went out and bought the damn guiness book of stupidity and, sure
enough, they have a bit on mitnick. i think if anything we have a world
record for number of inaccuracies in a single paragraph.

this is my interpretation. i'd like to hear others:

MOST NOTORIOUS HACKER CASE
[i'll let this go for now]
Hacker Kevin Mitnick is alleged to have broken into several major
organizations' computer systems, including those of Sun Microsystems,
Motorola, and the Pentagon [uh, when was this exactly?]. Mitnick was
arrested on September 16, 1996 [no, that was the date he was *indicted* -
he was *arrested* on February 15, *1995*] after an FBI computer expert
[here we go again - WAS SHIMOMURA WORKING FOR THE FBI OR NOT? it now
seems to be an established fact which makes his book and the upcoming
film even more of a blatant lie - one which needs to be exposed. and
if this *isn't* true, Louis Freeh himself needs to clear it up.] tracked
him down. He has since been charged with software theft, wire fraud,
the interception of wire communications [no, i believe shimomura
did that] and computer vandalism [say WHAT? he hasn't been charged
with anything *remotely* like this! how hard is it to read the damn
indictment?!]. Mitnick, the first hacker ever to have appeared on an
FBI wanted poster [was mitnick EVER on an fbi poster? we've already
dispeled the 10 most wanted falsehood. and if he was on a poster, was
he really the "first hacker"?], faces up to 12 years in prison if he
is found guilty [i'd like to know how they got this figure too].

well, does the guiness book of world records print corrections?

emmanuel

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 01:52:13 -0600
From: "Joe Shambro" <jshambro@apci.net>
Subject: Re: [mitnick] guiness book of world records

emmanuel,

  I see where they really screwed that up..  i know the GBOWR really aims to
be as acruate as possible , but that is total rubbish.. maybe a letter/call
would get it taken care of in next years' issue..

- -Joe

- -----Original Message-----
From: Emmanuel Goldstein <emmanuel@2600.com>
To: mitnick@2600.com <mitnick@2600.com>
Date: Sunday, December 27, 1998 1:43 AM
Subject: Re: [mitnick] guiness book of world records


>ok, i went out and bought the damn guiness book of stupidity and, sure
>enough, they have a bit on mitnick. i think if anything we have a world
>record for number of inaccuracies in a single paragraph.
>
>this is my interpretation. i'd like to hear others:
>
>MOST NOTORIOUS HACKER CASE
>[i'll let this go for now]
>Hacker Kevin Mitnick is alleged to have broken into several major
>organizations' computer systems, including those of Sun Microsystems,
>Motorola, and the Pentagon [uh, when was this exactly?]. Mitnick was
>arrested on September 16, 1996 [no, that was the date he was *indicted* -
>he was *arrested* on February 15, *1995*] after an FBI computer expert
>[here we go again - WAS SHIMOMURA WORKING FOR THE FBI OR NOT? it now
>seems to be an established fact which makes his book and the upcoming
>film even more of a blatant lie - one which needs to be exposed. and
>if this *isn't* true, Louis Freeh himself needs to clear it up.] tracked
>him down. He has since been charged with software theft, wire fraud,
>the interception of wire communications [no, i believe shimomura
>did that] and computer vandalism [say WHAT? he hasn't been charged
>with anything *remotely* like this! how hard is it to read the damn
>indictment?!]. Mitnick, the first hacker ever to have appeared on an
>FBI wanted poster [was mitnick EVER on an fbi poster? we've already
>dispeled the 10 most wanted falsehood. and if he was on a poster, was
>he really the "first hacker"?], faces up to 12 years in prison if he
>is found guilty [i'd like to know how they got this figure too].
>
>well, does the guiness book of world records print corrections?
>
>emmanuel
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 03:55:35 EST
From: Phoenxknt@aol.com
Subject: Re: [mitnick] Seasons Greetings!!!

"Let Fire and Brimstone overtake the earth, and let it begin with me."

<< "Let there Peace on Earth and let it begin with me.">>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 04:08:05 EST
From: Phoenxknt@aol.com
Subject: Re: [mitnick] FREE KEVIN

In a message dated 98-12-25 10:59:01 EST, you write:

<< we're all friends here, right?
 By the way, aren't we suposed to be talking about Kevin? >>
There are no new things going on so we talk for the heck of it and no we're
not all friends...me and support are constantly plotting each other's
deaths...Damnit Support, I can see the red dot, you need to aim more to the
left...no no....my left.
;)
- -AM

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 04:09:21 EST
From: Phoenxknt@aol.com
Subject: Re: [mitnick] Holiday greetings

In a message dated 98-12-25 12:19:14 EST, you write:

<< Oh well, happy belated Winter Solstice, everyone.  Blessed be.  Hail
 Eris.
  >>
PAGANS OF THE WORLD UNITE.....oh sorry...that was a biased statement wasn't
it? ...my bad.

- -AM

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 04:11:21 EST
From: Phoenxknt@aol.com
Subject: Re: [mitnick] OFF TOPIC LIKE MY NUTS

Lewiz...the stick up your ass has a stick up its ass.

- -AM

<< 
 Go to a fucking seance if you want to see ppl that u don't normally see.
 
  >>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 04:11:56 EST
From: Phoenxknt@aol.com
Subject: Re: [mitnick] very off-topic-Buddism

Buddhits don't hvae holidays (at list I'm pretty sure thats what it is...a
friend told me that......)

- -AM

<< don't Buddists have the birth of Buddah this month or in the near future?
>>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 04:17:13 EST
From: Phoenxknt@aol.com
Subject: Re: [mitnick] guiness book of world records

I'm suprised he isn't in there for Longest Jail Time without a Trial :(
- -Absolute Matter

<< it's also rather contrary to what i thought the purpose of the book was.
 "most notorious" is such a subjective category to even include. i was    
 under the impression they only dealt in cold hard numbers. there might
 as well be an entry for most gullible reporter.
 
 emmanuel >>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 01:16:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Nate <nluppino@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us>
Subject: Re: [mitnick] guiness book of world records

> Mitnick, the first hacker ever to have appeared on an
> FBI wanted poster [was mitnick EVER on an fbi poster? we've already
> dispeled the 10 most wanted falsehood. and if he was on a poster, was
> he really the "first hacker"?]

Actually, yes, he has been on a wanted poster & I'm pretty sure there's a
picture of it in Littman's book. As for him being th first, I'm not sure.



						The Stainless Steel Rat

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 04:21:44 EST
From: Phoenxknt@aol.com
Subject: Re: [mitnick] guiness book of world records

Next year's too late. We need them to go on their TV show and apoligize and on
the news as a back story or something.

- -Absolute Matter

"Davions take a lot of Killing"

<< emmanuel,
 
   I see where they really screwed that up..  i know the GBOWR really aims to
 be as acruate as possible , but that is total rubbish.. maybe a letter/call
 would get it taken care of in next years' issue..
 
 -Joe
  >>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 03:00:32 -0800 (PST)
From: rOTTEN <rotten@cyberverse.com>
Subject: Re: [mitnick] guiness book of world records

On Sun, 27 Dec 1998 Phoenxknt@aol.com wrote:

> Next year's too late. We need them to go on their TV show and apoligize and on
> the news as a back story or something.

Set a new world record for "the most amount of email in response to a
Guiness Book factual blunder."

It's interesting, in order to win a world record through them, it has to
be documented by their people.  Like, I couldn't eat 1000 pies in 1 minute
and call them and say, "hey, let me in your book, I ate 1000 pies!".
They'd have to witness it.

So what's the deal?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 08:09:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Macki <macki@2600.com>
Subject: Re: [mitnick] guiness book of world record

> well, does the guiness book of world records print corrections?
> 
> emmanuel


Why would they make a correction? Now it's true. Think about it, when
every reputable newspaper, magazine, reference book, novel and movie says
that something is true.. it becomes fair game.

They aren't defaming kevin's character, they don't mean him any harm,
they're just saying what happened. How can ANYONE argue with every
publication in the country? At some point it just becomes true.

God damnit, this time let's get some fucking money from these leeches. Not
only was the term "Most Notorious Hacker" subjective.. But it was also
LIBELOUS. They did a good job backing up their opinion with facts to make
it legit and legal. Too bad the facts had false truth values.

As financially difficult it may be, i say sue Guiness, get them to settle,
and use that money to sue Miramax.


            --Macki

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:38:12 -0500
From: che guevara <cguevara@mindless.com>
Subject: Re: [mitnick] guiness book of world records

you could probably get them to change it in issues of 99 that haven't
been printed yet & the 00 (if their computers still work...) edition

Emmanuel Goldstein wrote:
> well, does the guiness book of world records print corrections?

- -- 
:che guevara:<cguevara@mindless.com>:
:<aim: OchejuanaO>:<irc: cguevara>:
:<icq: 25188620>:<http://che.findhere.com>:
:<z=n(x/y)>:<pgp key: get it at my site>:
:<spam warning: http://cguevara.home.ml.org/spam.txt>:
"I never think of the future - it comes soon enough." 
				 -albert einstein

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:39:41 -0500
From: che guevara <cguevara@mindless.com>
Subject: Re: [mitnick] guiness book of world records

no, it was a US Marshals wanted poster

Nate wrote:

> Actually, yes, he has been on a wanted poster & I'm pretty sure there's a
> picture of it in Littman's book. As for him being th first, I'm not sure.
> 
>                                                 The Stainless Steel Rat

- -- 
:che guevara:<cguevara@mindless.com>:
:<aim: OchejuanaO>:<irc: cguevara>:
:<icq: 25188620>:<http://che.findhere.com>:
:<z=n(x/y)>:<pgp key: get it at my site>:
:<spam warning: http://cguevara.home.ml.org/spam.txt>:
"I never think of the future - it comes soon enough." 
				 -albert einstein

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:59:59 -0500
From: che guevara <cguevara@mindless.com>
Subject: [mitnick] Re: guiness book of world records

well, i looked in the front cover to see if I could find an address, but
I found some useful information instead. 

"ACCREDITATION
Guinness Publishing Ltd has a very thorough accreditation [thorough my
ass] for records verification.  However, whilst every effort is made to
ensure accuracy [they didn't make any efforts to ensure the inaccuracy
on page 178!], [read the following part carefully:] GUINNESS PUBLISHING
LTD CANNOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY ERRORS CONTAINED IN THIS WORK. 
Feedback from our readers on any points of inaccuracy is always welcomed."

so, we can tell them what they did wrong, but they'll basically say,
whatever, we'll fix it if we get around to it.  I looked in the book &
scanned their website (http://www.guinessrecords.com/) and there was no
sign of address.  Can someone find it?
- -- 
:che guevara:<cguevara@mindless.com>:
:<aim: OchejuanaO>:<irc: cguevara>:
:<icq: 25188620>:<http://che.findhere.com>:
:<z=n(x/y)>:<pgp key: get it at my site>:
:<spam warning: http://cguevara.home.ml.org/spam.txt>:
"I never think of the future - it comes soon enough." 
				 -albert einstein

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:07:21 EST
From: ExeRoy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [mitnick] guiness book of world records

is there a phone number, or address we could use to contact them?

- - dangerz
Free Kevin Ribbons
http://members.xoom.com/kevinribbon/index.html


In a message dated 12/27/98 2:38:02 AM Eastern Standard Time,
emmanuel@2600.com writes:

<< ok, i went out and bought the damn guiness book of stupidity and, sure
 enough, they have a bit on mitnick. i think if anything we have a world
 record for number of inaccuracies in a single paragraph.
 
 this is my interpretation. i'd like to hear others:
 
 MOST NOTORIOUS HACKER CASE
 [i'll let this go for now]
 Hacker Kevin Mitnick is alleged to have broken into several major
 organizations' computer systems, including those of Sun Microsystems,
 Motorola, and the Pentagon [uh, when was this exactly?]. Mitnick was
 arrested on September 16, 1996 [no, that was the date he was *indicted* -
 he was *arrested* on February 15, *1995*] after an FBI computer expert
 [here we go again - WAS SHIMOMURA WORKING FOR THE FBI OR NOT? it now
 seems to be an established fact which makes his book and the upcoming
 film even more of a blatant lie - one which needs to be exposed. and
 if this *isn't* true, Louis Freeh himself needs to clear it up.] tracked
 him down. He has since been charged with software theft, wire fraud,
 the interception of wire communications [no, i believe shimomura
 did that] and computer vandalism [say WHAT? he hasn't been charged
 with anything *remotely* like this! how hard is it to read the damn
 indictment?!]. Mitnick, the first hacker ever to have appeared on an
 FBI wanted poster [was mitnick EVER on an fbi poster? we've already
 dispeled the 10 most wanted falsehood. and if he was on a poster, was
 he really the "first hacker"?], faces up to 12 years in prison if he
 is found guilty [i'd like to know how they got this figure too].
 
 well, does the guiness book of world records print corrections?
 
 emmanuel
  >>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:02:58 -0600
From: "jackdarippa" <jackr1pp@unixfreak.com>
Subject: Re: [mitnick] guiness book of world records

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I think the best we can hope for is for this to be edited out of the
next edition.

jackdarippa
- - -----Original Message-----
From: Emmanuel Goldstein <emmanuel@2600.com>
To: mitnick@2600.com <mitnick@2600.com>
Date: Sunday, December 27, 1998 1:47 AM
Subject: Re: [mitnick] guiness book of world records


>ok, i went out and bought the damn guiness book of stupidity and,
sure
>enough, they have a bit on mitnick. i think if anything we have a
world
>record for number of inaccuracies in a single paragraph.
>
>this is my interpretation. i'd like to hear others:
>
>MOST NOTORIOUS HACKER CASE
>[i'll let this go for now]
>Hacker Kevin Mitnick is alleged to have broken into several major
>organizations' computer systems, including those of Sun Microsystems,
>Motorola, and the Pentagon [uh, when was this exactly?]. Mitnick was
>arrested on September 16, 1996 [no, that was the date he was
*indicted* -
>he was *arrested* on February 15, *1995*] after an FBI computer
expert
>[here we go again - WAS SHIMOMURA WORKING FOR THE FBI OR NOT? it now
>seems to be an established fact which makes his book and the upcoming
>film even more of a blatant lie - one which needs to be exposed. and
>if this *isn't* true, Louis Freeh himself needs to clear it up.]
tracked
>him down. He has since been charged with software theft, wire fraud,
>the interception of wire communications [no, i believe shimomura
>did that] and computer vandalism [say WHAT? he hasn't been charged
>with anything *remotely* like this! how hard is it to read the damn
>indictment?!]. Mitnick, the first hacker ever to have appeared on an
>FBI wanted poster [was mitnick EVER on an fbi poster? we've already
>dispeled the 10 most wanted falsehood. and if he was on a poster, was
>he really the "first hacker"?], faces up to 12 years in prison if he
>is found guilty [i'd like to know how they got this figure too].
>
>well, does the guiness book of world records print corrections?
>
>emmanuel
>
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 12:46:18 EST
From: JediHamstr@aol.com
Subject: Re: [mitnick] guiness book of world records

You could probably get them to change it in next year's edition, but it's
nearly impossible to get them to 'hold the presses,' make a correction, and
then resume printing. By the way, I doubt they'd care enough to mention it in
the TV show.

- -Xander

(Going for a new record, "Most posts on a single topic")



In a message dated 12/27/98 3:50:09 PM, cguevara@mindless.com writes:

>you could probably get them to change it in issues of 99 that haven't
>been printed yet & the 00 (if their computers still work...) edition

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 12:57:19 EST
From: JediHamstr@aol.com
Subject: [mitnick] Lockdown Clock.....

For some reason, every time I view the Kevin Mitnick Lockdown Clock on any
site, it reads 2011 years, 0 months, 9 days, 2 hours, 14 minutes, 15 seconds.
Is it just me, because these past years seem to have just flown by!

- -Xander

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 13:21:31 -0500
From: che guevara <cguevara@mindless.com>
Subject: Re: [mitnick] Lockdown Clock.....

it's probably just aol

JediHamstr@aol.com wrote:
> 
> For some reason, every time I view the Kevin Mitnick Lockdown Clock on any
> site, it reads 2011 years, 0 months, 9 days, 2 hours, 14 minutes, 15 seconds.
> Is it just me, because these past years seem to have just flown by!
> 
> -Xander

- -- 
:che guevara:<cguevara@mindless.com>:
:<aim: OchejuanaO>:<irc: cguevara>:
:<icq: 25188620>:<http://che.findhere.com>:
:<z=n(x/y)>:<pgp key: get it at my site>:
:<spam warning: http://cguevara.home.ml.org/spam.txt>:
"I never think of the future - it comes soon enough." 
				 -albert einstein

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 14:05:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Blaguszewski <mblagusz@alleg.edu>
Subject: Re: [mitnick] Re: guiness book of world records

On Sun, 27 Dec 1998, che guevara wrote:

> well, i looked in the front cover to see if I could find an address, but
> I found some useful information instead. 
> 
> "ACCREDITATION
> Guinness Publishing Ltd has a very thorough accreditation [thorough my
> ass] for records verification.  However, whilst every effort is made to
> ensure accuracy [they didn't make any efforts to ensure the inaccuracy
> on page 178!], [read the following part carefully:] GUINNESS PUBLISHING
> LTD CANNOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY ERRORS CONTAINED IN THIS WORK. 
> Feedback from our readers on any points of inaccuracy is always welcomed."

I doubt that this protects them from libel/defamation suits (or else you
can bet that every tabloid in the country would have one). I think that
this is more for cases of trivial accuracy (i.e. was that 200 or 201 boxes
of matches he balanced on his nose), not situations where they make false
accusations of criminal activities. There are some things you can't
disclaim away, and I think that libel liability is one them. Are there any
lawyers still on the list who could shed some light on the subject?

Mike Blaguszewski

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 14:13:27 -0500
From: Emmanuel Goldstein <emmanuel@2600.com>
Subject: Re: [mitnick] guiness book of world records

now that's the kind of record that might open some eyes. of course, we'll
never see anything like that because the people at guiness wouldn't want
to make what could be interpreted as a criticism of the government. they
would rather malign the name of an individual who is helpless to defend
himself. this relates to something i was trying to point out on my show
last week - there is bias in every crevice of our society - you just have
to look for it and it'll start screaming at you.

emmanuel

On Sun, Dec 27, 1998 at 04:17:13AM -0500, Phoenxknt@aol.com wrote:
> I'm suprised he isn't in there for Longest Jail Time without a Trial :(
> -Absolute Matter
> 
> << it's also rather contrary to what i thought the purpose of the book was.
>  "most notorious" is such a subjective category to even include. i was    
>  under the impression they only dealt in cold hard numbers. there might
>  as well be an entry for most gullible reporter.
>  
>  emmanuel >>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 14:16:25 -0500
From: Emmanuel Goldstein <emmanuel@2600.com>
Subject: Re: [mitnick] guiness book of world records

On Sun, Dec 27, 1998 at 03:00:32AM -0800, rOTTEN wrote:
> 
> It's interesting, in order to win a world record through them, it has to
> be documented by their people.  Like, I couldn't eat 1000 pies in 1 minute
> and call them and say, "hey, let me in your book, I ate 1000 pies!".
> They'd have to witness it.
> 
> So what's the deal?

maybe they read the new york times and assumed it was the next best thing
to the truth.

emmanuel

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 14:20:49 -0500
From: Emmanuel Goldstein <emmanuel@2600.com>
Subject: Re: [mitnick] guiness book of world records

that is a significant difference. since i can't seem to find my copy
of fugitive game, can someone tell me if the fbi is mentioned anywhere
on that wanted poster. in fact, it would be a good idea to post all of
the text from it so we all know exactly what it says.

emmanuel

On Sun, Dec 27, 1998 at 10:39:41AM -0500, che guevara wrote:
> no, it was a US Marshals wanted poster
> 
> Nate wrote:
> 
> > Actually, yes, he has been on a wanted poster & I'm pretty sure there's a
> > picture of it in Littman's book. As for him being th first, I'm not sure.
> > 
> >                                                 The Stainless Steel Rat
> 
> -- 
> :che guevara:<cguevara@mindless.com>:
> :<aim: OchejuanaO>:<irc: cguevara>:
> :<icq: 25188620>:<http://che.findhere.com>:
> :<z=n(x/y)>:<pgp key: get it at my site>:
> :<spam warning: http://cguevara.home.ml.org/spam.txt>:
> "I never think of the future - it comes soon enough." 
> 				 -albert einstein

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 14:36:55 -0500
From: Dan Sissman <dsissman@albany.net>
Subject: Re: [mitnick] Post Update

kerry wrote:

> I still can't believe these papers refuse to print retractions for their errors.
> But at least they printed this letter -- page A17.

I'm sure they don't "refuse", it's just that in this case, nobody who complained was
perceived as powerful enough to hurt them.  I'm sure if they were contacted by
Microsoft's legal staff about a factual error Microsoft was unhappy about, they'd be
very responsive.  They might not even bury the correction on A17.  (The original
story was what, on A2 or something like that?)



- --
Dan Sissman, amateur triviaphile            Free Kevin Mitnick!
http://www.albany.net/~dsissman             http://www.kevinmitnick.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 14:42:27 -0500
From: Emmanuel Goldstein <emmanuel@2600.com>
Subject: Re: [mitnick] Re: guiness book of world records

On Sun, Dec 27, 1998 at 10:59:59AM -0500, che guevara wrote:
> well, i looked in the front cover to see if I could find an address, but
> I found some useful information instead. 
> 
> "ACCREDITATION
> Guinness Publishing Ltd has a very thorough accreditation [thorough my
> ass] for records verification.  However, whilst every effort is made to
> ensure accuracy [they didn't make any efforts to ensure the inaccuracy
> on page 178!], [read the following part carefully:] GUINNESS PUBLISHING
> LTD CANNOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY ERRORS CONTAINED IN THIS WORK. 
> Feedback from our readers on any points of inaccuracy is always welcomed."
> 
> so, we can tell them what they did wrong, but they'll basically say,
> whatever, we'll fix it if we get around to it.  I looked in the book &
> scanned their website (http://www.guinessrecords.com/) and there was no
> sign of address.  Can someone find it?

keep in mind that they are most likely referring to errors having to do
with how many people were actually able to squezze into a single phone
booth in 1954 or something like that involving numbers. this is different
as it can be considered character assassination and libel, something they
could have avoided altogether with a simple "According to..." somewhere
in their little diatribe.

guiness publishing seems to be located in london at 338 Euston Road
in London, NW1 3BD U.K. there is an american address at 6 landmark square
in stamford, connecticut 06901. their email address is listed as
infousa@guinnessrecords.com. their web site is located in england and
they get their service through netcom.

btw, *a lot* of people, myself included, seem to type guiness instead
of guinness. i'm surprised they didn't grab guinessrecords.com as a
precaution.

emmanuel

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 13:53:57 -0600
From: "Joe Shambro" <jshambro@apci.net>
Subject: Re: [mitnick] guiness book of world records

emmanuel,  i'm sure if you approach the GBOWR (with others doing the same)
they might consider that as a record, who knows..

- -Joe

- -----Original Message-----
From: Emmanuel Goldstein <emmanuel@2600.com>
To: mitnick@2600.com <mitnick@2600.com>
Date: Sunday, December 27, 1998 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [mitnick] guiness book of world records


>now that's the kind of record that might open some eyes. of course, we'll
>never see anything like that because the people at guiness wouldn't want
>to make what could be interpreted as a criticism of the government. they
>would rather malign the name of an individual who is helpless to defend
>himself. this relates to something i was trying to point out on my show
>last week - there is bias in every crevice of our society - you just have
>to look for it and it'll start screaming at you.
>
>emmanuel
>
>On Sun, Dec 27, 1998 at 04:17:13AM -0500, Phoenxknt@aol.com wrote:
>> I'm suprised he isn't in there for Longest Jail Time without a Trial :(
>> -Absolute Matter
>>
>> << it's also rather contrary to what i thought the purpose of the book
was.
>>  "most notorious" is such a subjective category to even include. i was
>>  under the impression they only dealt in cold hard numbers. there might
>>  as well be an entry for most gullible reporter.
>>
>>  emmanuel >>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 15:08:31 -0500
From: Dan Sissman <dsissman@albany.net>
Subject: Re: [mitnick] guiness book of world records

Don't sell the Guinness people short.  They made a mistake, but I think in
general, they are concerned with making the book as accurate as possible.  (It
was originally conceived to settle bar bets, something the Guinness people take
quite seriously.)  If they're approached properly about it, they might not not
only make the correction in future editions, but also might actually include an
"injustice record".  Note the following:

GREATEST COMPENSATION FOR WRONGFUL IMPRISONMENT

    Isadore Zimmerman (1917-83) of NY spent 24 years in prison before his
conviction for murdering a cop was overturned becasue of new evidence.  On his
release at age 66 he was awarded $1 million, which is equivalent to $42,000 for
each year he spent in prison.  But, after legal fees and expenses, he ended up
with only 60 percent of the million.  Zimmerman decided not to appeal the award,
snd died a little more than a year later.
    The largest award previously was made on Aug 12, 1975, to William DePalma (b
1938) of Whittier, Calif, who obtained a $750,000 settlement for 16 months'
wrongful imprisonment in McNeil Island Federal Prison, Wash.  He had been given a
15-year sentence for armed robbery in Buena Park, Calif, on forged fingerprint
evidence in 1968.

(This is from the 1987 edition.  I have no idea if it's still listed.)

Emmanuel Goldstein wrote:

> now that's the kind of record that might open some eyes. of course, we'll
> never see anything like that because the people at guiness wouldn't want
> to make what could be interpreted as a criticism of the government. they
> would rather malign the name of an individual who is helpless to defend
> himself. this relates to something i was trying to point out on my show
> last week - there is bias in every crevice of our society - you just have
> to look for it and it'll start screaming at you.
>
> emmanuel
>
> On Sun, Dec 27, 1998 at 04:17:13AM -0500, Phoenxknt@aol.com wrote:
> > I'm suprised he isn't in there for Longest Jail Time without a Trial :(
> > -Absolute Matter
> >
> > << it's also rather contrary to what i thought the purpose of the book was.
> >  "most notorious" is such a subjective category to even include. i was
> >  under the impression they only dealt in cold hard numbers. there might
> >  as well be an entry for most gullible reporter.
> >
> >  emmanuel >>

- --
Dan Sissman, amateur triviaphile            Free Kevin Mitnick!
http://www.albany.net/~dsissman             http://www.kevinmitnick.com

------------------------------

End of mitnick-digest V1 #229
*****************************