mitnick-digest Wednesday, December 30 1998 Volume 01 : Number 231 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 15:46:45 EST From: DOCGGG@aol.com Subject: [mitnick] Today Show, MTV, Emmanuel Finally. A great idea. Emmanuel's idea really made sense because, it's not that hard at all to get on the today show from the crowd...and how many people watch that show every morning? ALOT! I've walked past the NBC building numerous times...it's right near Rockefeller Center. if you can get say..1 hour before the show? maybe 20 minutes before to organize, there's no problem at all. Get very close to the barricades, or the metal guard rails, and just wait. It'd be best...to kind of spread around the guard rails, not knowing exactly where the camera might be focused...but if there's say 2 people or more in a bunch and some on the other side, it'll definantly get realized. Because, if you just have one person by himself, it won't capture the average viewer as much as 2 or 3 people right next to eachother will. It's a great idea. Now, my idea was to go to Times Square and go outside the MTV building. Every day on Total Request Live "TRL" and some other shows, the camera's will go outside and usually do a segment with one of the people from MTV. In the backround, you see the fans and stuff waving signs, and sometimes the Mtv person talks with the people. Now, New Year's is coming up. And, MTV is hosting this "big" party. I think that would be a good time for anyone who wants to, to go down there. Because fans will be shown alot. Over the summer, I was able to go down to Seaside Heights, NJ. Where MTV was doing their beach house. I know that they taped atleast 1 week, possibly 2 weeks in advance all the shows...and for one show...i forget the name, some work-out show. that was down the first 2 weeks of june...for the whole summer. But, unless you went down there, you wouldn't of known that. Now, i don't know the schedule for MTV in New York, but I assume, most of the shows are live on the spot..Because when they go outside and it's raining..it's raining on the set. So, anyway, just some suggestions. I really think we should go along with Emmanuel's idea. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:18:15 -0800 From: "Caliban Tiresias Darklock" Subject: Re: [mitnick] CHECK THIS SHIT OUT - -----Original Message----- From: Happy Toothpaste To: mitnick@2600.com Date: Tuesday, December 29, 1998 11:07 AM Subject: Re: [mitnick] CHECK THIS SHIT OUT >On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, rOTTEN wrote: > >> I hold steadfastly to my position that we cannot inflict our notion of >> what is right or wrong on other countries. > > >Isn't that just ethical cultural relativism? I like to say "quark". Quark, quark, quark. >We've already determined that some interference is assuredly for the >better (ie modern medicine, education, etc) ... For sufficiently congruent definitions of "better" -- for example, you have a goal of 'protecting human rights', whereas the Chinese apparently have the goal of 'discouraging criminal behavior'. Most people who champion 'human rights' over 'extreme prejudice' don't seem to realise that human rights are a luxury which most criminals have seen precious little of. They're used to being treated like subhuman scum. I say, when someone from the upper social classes goes to prison, it's about fucking time he learned what being treated like subhuman scum feels like. Then maybe he won't treat other people like that. Then maybe there will be more human rights OUT HERE, instead of in prison where only the criminals can enjoy them. There are casualties in any broad decision relating to criminality. If we make things easy on the prisoners, then they have no incentive to "go straight". If, on the other hand, we make a practice of making things hard on them -- they have a very real incentive. I am assuming that this is justified punishment, i.e. the person in prison has been tried and found guilty. Kevin's situation is an excellent example of unjust punishment; while he is "presumed innocent", he is still locked up with the guilty. When unjust punishment is meted out rarely, it is acceptable only as a casualty of a system that 'usually' works. When unjust punishment is meted out frequently, it is merely evidence of a system which is capricious and does *not* work. When the system is capricious, you are likely to be punished whether you commit a crime or not, and there is no benefit to being law-abiding. Hence, the unjust system actively *encourages* crime. >can we not also say that >there are certain basic principles (not absolute, but common to the best >interests of humanity, or perhaps more) which everyone should adhere to if >at all possible? Sure, we can say that. Everyone ought to go around and not hurt other people. There we go. There's the law. Don't hurt people. Oh, damn. You hurt someone. Now what? Well, apologise for what you did, and don't do it again. If we all did this, things would be all nice and happy, right? Wrong. What does 'hurt' mean? Physical damage? So I can go insult people all I want? What if I took your CD player, would you be hurt by that? What if I lied to your boss about something? That's why laws are more than three words, I guess. ;) | Caliban Tiresias Darklock caliban@darklock.com | Darklock Communications http://www.darklock.com/ | U L T I M A T E U N I V E R S E I S N O T D E A D | 774577496C6C6E457645727355626D4974H -=CABAL::3146=- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:24:21 -0800 (PST) From: Happy Toothpaste Subject: [mitnick] Subjectivism On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, rOTTEN wrote: > > Isn't that just ethical cultural relativism? > Who knows? I do. It is. > More importantly, who cares? The problem with that sort of thinking is that it doesn't allow us to say that anything is wrong or right. While this might seem like the common teen angst dream, it is counterproductive in a society, since we are talking about societies here it's a valid point. > Apparantly, in China, embezzlement and/or fraud is punishable by death. > > Sucks to be a thief in China. > > Sucks to be a Mitnick in America. How nicely apathetic... ;p - -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQCNAzZpFVAAAAEEAL8yO+r+L2o4w6/YnwTFIODqcHyrfJ7LwHEH647B5dkW6l9j cyS/IB9LkiyHA/c24jo78HOIoNmuPLXpt72VzJYCK/e2ndAALiyvfQk5ymyeLUtq g8MOd1U9o5qC1pWbGa+hz9uzHPSyI+KAbR4m3NtsheV8q72MInEsuJHRTg7dAAUR tCNIYXBweSBUb290aHBhc3RlIDxtZWtoZXRAc29uaWMubmV0Pg== =wuwL - -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 15:55:25 PST From: "Kevin Joubert" Subject: Re: [mitnick] unsubscribe Hey, I made the same mistake but you should send this to majordomo@2600.com >Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 08:02:30 -0300 >From: spyd >To: mitnick@2600.com >Subject: [mitnick] unsubscribe >Reply-To: mitnick@2600.com > >unsubscribe > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 16:18:01 PST From: "Kevin Joubert" Subject: Re: [mitnick] CHECK THIS SHIT OUT >Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:54:07 -0800 (PST) >From: Happy Toothpaste >To: mitnick@2600.com >Subject: Re: [mitnick] CHECK THIS SHIT OUT >Reply-To: mitnick@2600.com > >On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, rOTTEN wrote: > >> I hold steadfastly to my position that we cannot inflict our notion of >> what is right or wrong on other countries. > > >Isn't that just ethical cultural relativism? > > >We've already determined that some interference is assuredly for the >better (ie modern medicine, education, etc) ... can we not also say that >there are certain basic principles (not absolute, but common to the best >interests of humanity, or perhaps more) which everyone should adhere to if >at all possible? > Sure we can. But we should lead by EXAMPLE. Until we can do a good enough job of that, I think we should mind our own business. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 16:37:39 PST From: "TelePhreak -" Subject: [mitnick]China ish-tar, and other things doesnt anyone find it kind of wierd, even when the bank robbers in china were sentenced to death, they never had to wait almost four years for their sentence. Even one of the cruelest countries never make one wait a long time for a trial, they get it over quickly. We're supposed to be this great country, where everyone is supposed to be created equal and innocent before proven guilty. When we cant even give one lonely guy, who hacked computers, never caused any real harm, never tried to profiet off of his hacks a trial. This upsets me. How great is our country? If our founding fathers were with us today they would be more then just unhappy. This starts me thinking...maybe if kevin was charged with a worse crime, like murder if he would have had his trial, be convicted, and maybe even been let out by now. This is where we come in, we're the people who have to get the word, out. The more publicity a person gets the faster things happen. If no one cared about these china guys and if no one knew about them, as most of the americans know about kevin, maybe they would be still waiting in jail for their trial, but no, many people knew about it and the word was out. The more people know about this, the faster things will happen. To me this case isnt about hacking crimes, its about human rights...how long could they hold a man for such petty of a crime? just makes you think... ---------------------FREE KEVIN - -TelePhreak of The Phone Rangers Email: telephrk@hotmail.com ICQ: 10886438 mIRC: telephrk Aol IM: TelePhrk 0 http://welcome.to/phonerangers http://phonerangers.cjb.net ---------------------FREE KEVIN ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:45:52 +1000 From: Reeza! Subject: Re: [mitnick] CHECK THIS SHIT OUT >On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, rOTTEN wrote: > >> I hold steadfastly to my position that we cannot inflict our notion of >> what is right or wrong on other countries. Tiannanmen Square. Have you hugged a tank today??? Kuwait. Because he's so damned insane. While rOTTEN's premise is fundamentally sound, there are certain events that beg intervention. China executing two common thieves for grand larceny isn't one of them. Reeza! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:38:45 +1000 From: Reeza! Subject: Re: [mitnick] CHECK THIS SHIT OUT At 08:53 AM 12/29/98 -0800, Caliban Tiresias Darklock wrote: > > >I'm sending this particular bit to the list because a lot of people have >this problem and it's not very well documented. If you don't need it, >perhaps you might do the public service of filing it away for future >reference in case someone you know does. Or then again you might not. > >In EUDORA.INI, under the [Settings] heading, there is a "ReplyAttribution" >setting which normally does not exist unless you put it there; it defaults >to "At %1, you wrote:" but if you replace "you" with "%2" you'll get the >name of the sender. So in other words, close Eudora, open EUDORA.INI, and >immediately under the [Settings] line add: > >ReplyAttribution=At %1, %2 wrote: > >...or whatever else you want to say there. I've seen some customized opening words there, the one I am most fond of is %2 "reshaped the electrons to say:..." Yes, I've played with the .ini file, note my custom x-truism and x-comment lines above. I'm more aggravated with the dual instances of "mitnick@2600.com on the To: header, and the necessity of manually adding the addy of a specific list member to send directly, or solely, to that list member. > >>the wired 'zine writer herd is competent enough to produce a monthly rag on >>a set timeline. > >This gives folks too much credit for discerning taste. Basically, the Wired >writers have been published. It doesn't matter where or when or by who. This >makes them Somebody. And most folks are Nobody. Too true. Being published is the criteria de rigure in far too many fields. Reeza! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:10:31 -0600 From: "jackdarippa" Subject: Re: [mitnick]China ish-tar, and other things - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 chances are they plead guilty, you are greatly urged to plead guilty in china and even if you don't the trial will be pretty quick. I know some of you must be communists, but china is communist and totalitarian. At least in America u get a fair trial IN THEORY.... jackdarippa - - -----Original Message----- From: TelePhreak - To: mitnick@2600.com Date: Tuesday, December 29, 1998 7:00 PM Subject: [mitnick]China ish-tar, and other things >doesnt anyone find it kind of wierd, even when the bank robbers in china >were sentenced to death, they never had to wait almost four years for >their sentence. Even one of the cruelest countries never make one wait a >long time for a trial, they get it over quickly. We're supposed to be >this great country, where everyone is supposed to be created equal and >innocent before proven guilty. When we cant even give one lonely guy, >who hacked computers, never caused any real harm, never tried to >profiet off of his hacks a trial. This upsets me. How great is our >country? If our founding fathers were with us today they would be more >then just unhappy. This starts me thinking...maybe if kevin was charged >with a worse crime, like murder if he would have had his trial, be >convicted, and maybe even been let out by now. > This is where we come in, we're the people who have to get the word, >out. The more publicity a person gets the faster things happen. If no >one cared about these china guys and if no one knew about them, as most >of the americans know about kevin, maybe they would be still waiting in >jail for their trial, but no, many people knew about it and the word was >out. The more people know about this, the faster things will happen. To >me this case isnt about hacking crimes, its about human rights...how >long could they hold a man for such petty of a crime? just makes you >think... > >---------------------FREE KEVIN >-TelePhreak >of The Phone Rangers >Email: telephrk@hotmail.com >ICQ: 10886438 >mIRC: telephrk >Aol IM: TelePhrk 0 >http://welcome.to/phonerangers >http://phonerangers.cjb.net >---------------------FREE KEVIN > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.0 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBNol9htpIpYADgVGcEQIh5gCgkZBbTAHEpTsGXdG6j/PDOmqazasAnjE3 Sb94EJZWqkfGjlvVRUpHRm9N =210D - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 18:18:38 -0800 (PST) From: rOTTEN Subject: Re: [mitnick] unsubscribe On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, Kevin Joubert wrote: > Hey, I made the same mistake but you should send this to > > majordomo@2600.com Oh come on... how many times need it be said? If they want to unsubscribe, they're not going to read a list-post. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 18:20:45 -0800 (PST) From: rOTTEN Subject: Re: [mitnick]China ish-tar, and other things Well, looks like SOMEONE graduated from the Caliban Tiresias School of Drivel. On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, TelePhreak - wrote: > doesnt anyone find it kind of wierd, even when the bank robbers in china > were sentenced to death, they never had to wait almost four years for > their sentence. Even one of the cruelest countries never make one wait a > long time for a trial, they get it over quickly. We're supposed to be > this great country, where everyone is supposed to be created equal and > innocent before proven guilty. When we cant even give one lonely guy, > who hacked computers, never caused any real harm, never tried to > profiet off of his hacks a trial. This upsets me. How great is our > country? If our founding fathers were with us today they would be more > then just unhappy. This starts me thinking...maybe if kevin was charged > with a worse crime, like murder if he would have had his trial, be > convicted, and maybe even been let out by now. > This is where we come in, we're the people who have to get the word, > out. The more publicity a person gets the faster things happen. If no > one cared about these china guys and if no one knew about them, as most > of the americans know about kevin, maybe they would be still waiting in > jail for their trial, but no, many people knew about it and the word was > out. The more people know about this, the faster things will happen. To > me this case isnt about hacking crimes, its about human rights...how > long could they hold a man for such petty of a crime? just makes you > think... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 18:25:30 -0800 (PST) From: rOTTEN Subject: Re: [mitnick] Today Show, MTV, Emmanuel On Tue, 29 Dec 1998 DOCGGG@aol.com wrote: > Finally. > A great idea. > Emmanuel's idea really made sense because, it's not that hard at all to get on > the today show from the crowd...and how many people watch that show every > morning? ALOT! > I've walked past the NBC building numerous times...it's right near Rockefeller > Center. How about a nice yellow, reverse-stick FREE KEVIN sticker? One of those types of stickers you put on the INSIDE of a car window. Get me? By peeling off the "backing", you're really peeling off the face. Stick the sticker on the window, and bang. Instant propaganda...at least until some nasty do-gooder in the crowd peels it off. It only takes a second, and you can wear a scarf and a snow hat, or some other elaborate disguise...like a sombrero and a Free Kevin serape. <..rOTTEN..> nobody move, nobody get hurt error187(1) critical failure - - - - - - It was once said by a man who couldn't quit, "Dopeman, please can I have another hit?" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 18:32:33 -0800 (PST) From: rOTTEN Subject: Re: [mitnick] Subjectivism On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, Happy Toothpaste wrote: > > > Isn't that just ethical cultural relativism? > > Who knows? > > I do. > > It is. Only by your standard of cultural ethics. Relativism works both ways. To insert a television theme jingle: "What might be right for you, may not be right for some." > > More importantly, who cares? > > The problem with that sort of thinking is that it doesn't allow us to say > that anything is wrong or right. You're speaking about Truth, rather than validity. > While this might seem like the common > teen angst dream, it is counterproductive in a society, since we are > talking about societies here it's a valid point. It's counterproductive anyway, since you're not going to get off your ass to DO anything about it. So pointing your gnarled finger at people and saying "teen angst, teen angst" isn't doing jack shit. What's the difference between teen angst, and adult angst? Adults know more about how fucked up things are? > > Apparantly, in China, embezzlement and/or fraud is punishable by death. > > > > Sucks to be a thief in China. > > > > Sucks to be a Mitnick in America. > > How nicely apathetic... ;p Truly. And what are YOU doing about human rights issues in China? Exactly. Next! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:21:15 PST From: "kenneth sooyna" Subject: Re: [mitnick] guiness book of world record hey. i'm the one that made most of those logos. but at least people have seen them. the thinker - - http://thinker.findhere.com http://listen.to/duz icq:19173887 >From: Phoenxknt@aol.com > >In a message dated 98-12-27 08:11:10 EST, you write: > ><< As financially difficult it may be, i say sue Guiness, get them to settle, > and use that money to sue Miramax. >> > >So should We have Che make new logos saying "SUE 4 KEVIN!" ? > >-AM ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:51:48 PST From: "Kevin Joubert" Subject: Re: [mitnick]China ish-tar, and other things >From: "TelePhreak -" >To: mitnick@2600.com >Subject: [mitnick]China ish-tar, and other things >Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 16:37:39 PST >Reply-To: mitnick@2600.com > >doesnt anyone find it kind of wierd, even when the bank robbers in china >were sentenced to death, they never had to wait almost four years for >their sentence. Even one of the cruelest countries never make one wait a >long time for a trial, they get it over quickly. Such is the observation of many opponents to the death penalty in this country. The death penalty in its current state is useless. The whole idea behind killing someone for committing a certain crime is to hopefully scare others into not doing the same. This simply doesn't happen when someone sits on death row for a number of years. The public forgets who the person is, the press doesn't remind us until that persons execution date and by then, no one remembers what the hell the guy did or who he is. I am not necessarily opposed to the idea of a death penalty but i feel that the way it works in the US is nonsense and it should be abolished in its current state. To >me this case isnt about hacking crimes, its about human rights...how >long could they hold a man for such petty of a crime? just makes you >think... > > You are oh-so-right. This issue has far transcended what Kevin did or is accused of doing. Its about human and constitutional rights that are being trampled by the very government that claims to protect those rights. Its also about an ignornant, spoon-fed, media-controlled public mass that needs to pull its head out its ass before the same unjustice occurs to them. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:54:10 PST From: "Kevin Joubert" Subject: Re: [mitnick]China ish-tar, and other things >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >chances are they plead guilty, you are greatly urged to plead guilty >in china and even if you don't the trial will be pretty quick. I know >some of you must be communists, but china is communist and >totalitarian. At least in America u get a fair trial IN THEORY.... > >jackdarippa They say Justice is blind. Well, she must have walked in front of a bus or something 'cause she is also DEAD in America. THAT is a fact. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:55:09 PST From: "Kevin Joubert" Subject: Re: [mitnick] unsubscribe EASY, EASY. Down boy. >Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 18:18:38 -0800 (PST) >From: rOTTEN >To: mitnick@2600.com >Subject: Re: [mitnick] unsubscribe >Reply-To: mitnick@2600.com > >On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, Kevin Joubert wrote: > >> Hey, I made the same mistake but you should send this to >> >> majordomo@2600.com > >Oh come on... > >how many times need it be said? > >If they want to unsubscribe, they're not going to read a list-post. > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 20:03:44 PST From: "Kevin Joubert" Subject: [mitnick] Another one to read Out of Chaos Comes Order by David Hudson 2:00 p.m. 28.Dec.98.PST BERLIN -- Tempers flared at Sunday's Chaos Communication Congress session, and the death of a famous Chaos Computer Club member was the flashpoint. http://www.wired.com/news/news/culture/story/17050.html ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:31:57 -0600 From: "jackdarippa" Subject: Re: [mitnick]China ish-tar, and other things - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 hey i of all people agree with you...but i'm just saying that getting a trial in china is worse than NOT getting one in the US... jackdarippa - - -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Joubert To: mitnick@2600.com Date: Tuesday, December 29, 1998 10:14 PM Subject: Re: [mitnick]China ish-tar, and other things >>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>Hash: SHA1 >> >>chances are they plead guilty, you are greatly urged to plead guilty >>in china and even if you don't the trial will be pretty quick. I know >>some of you must be communists, but china is communist and >>totalitarian. At least in America u get a fair trial IN THEORY.... >> >>jackdarippa > >They say Justice is blind. Well, she must have walked in front of a bus >or something 'cause she is also DEAD in America. THAT is a fact. > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.0 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBNomsvNpIpYADgVGcEQKXjgCgw3BIywuyuxmpVUrOVg/g9CVzA5MAoOS8 aXkztpI3JXtUTY6sPLpw1Fkj =N3n7 - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 01:45:34 -0500 (EST) From: Roger Harrison - ACM2 Admin Subject: Re: [mitnick] CHECK THIS SHIT OUT > > We've already determined that some interference is assuredly for the who the hell is we? > better (ie modern medicine, education, etc) ... can we not also say that i think that a lot of education is brainwashing, and that some cultures are better off without "education". Also considering modern medicine, consider how many millions die from the poisons (drugs) doctors prescribe, and what about all the people that wind up living even though in other areas of the world they would be dead? Is it always for the better to preserve defective genes? what about those guys in some mountainous area near india who live to like 120 without modern medicine. Modern medicine would surely kill them if it were applied.. > there are certain basic principles (not absolute, but common to the best > interests of humanity, or perhaps more) which everyone should adhere to if > at all possible? > > > > Besides, it's not like there's any shortage of Chinese in China. > > > > That's obviously not the point, regardless of how true it is ;) > > - > mekhet > > > -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- > Version: 2.6.2 > > mQCNAzZpFVAAAAEEAL8yO+r+L2o4w6/YnwTFIODqcHyrfJ7LwHEH647B5dkW6l9j > cyS/IB9LkiyHA/c24jo78HOIoNmuPLXpt72VzJYCK/e2ndAALiyvfQk5ymyeLUtq > g8MOd1U9o5qC1pWbGa+hz9uzHPSyI+KAbR4m3NtsheV8q72MInEsuJHRTg7dAAUR > tCNIYXBweSBUb290aHBhc3RlIDxtZWtoZXRAc29uaWMubmV0Pg== > =wuwL > -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:59:43 -0500 From: Mike Blaguszewski Subject: Re: [mitnick] CHECK THIS SHIT OUT On 12/30/98 at 9:45 AM, Reeza! wrote: > >On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, rOTTEN wrote: > > > >> I hold steadfastly to my position that we cannot inflict our notion of > >> what is right or wrong on other countries. [snip] > While rOTTEN's premise is fundamentally sound, there are certain events > that beg intervention. China executing two common thieves for grand larceny > isn't one of them. No, not per se. But the fact that China chooses to arrest or execute criminals for any crime it wishes _is_ important. Just recently, a dissident was arrested and convicted for attempting to subvert the government. His crime: asking permission to set up a democratic political party. Asking permission! And have you ever heard of a political dissident ever being aquitted at trial? I think not! It is very frightening to think that a fifth of humanity lives under a system that is one step away from _1984_. All they need to do now is just elminate trials altogether for political cases. It wouldn't be much different >from what they do now. So lets be glad they we live in a world where we can argue over whether our government is manipulating the justice system to serve their own purposes. In China, its a fact of life. Mike Blaguszewski ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 02:00:51 +1000 From: Reeza! Subject: Re: [mitnick] CHECK THIS SHIT OUT At 01:45 AM 12/30/98 -0500, Roger Harrison - ACM2 Admin wrote: >> >> We've already determined that some interference is assuredly for the >who the hell is we? I think in this case, "we" is rhetorical. >> better (ie modern medicine, education, etc) ... can we not also say that >i think that a lot of education is brainwashing, agreed,,, >and that some cultures >are better off without "education". Brzzzzzttt. Whoh, All Stop. WHAT? And which cultures might those be??? >Also considering modern medicine, >consider how many millions die from the poisons (drugs) doctors prescribe, Consider twice, he says. Consider the number of men to submit themselves to testing and sampling of drugs intended for women, because the female body is already wracked with hormonal changes that make the outcome of the "medicine" unpredictable. I'd rather consider requiring all doctors perform testing on themselves or other doctors, then we could go to the doctors who are still alive. >and what about all the people that wind up living even though in other >areas of the world they would be dead? What about them? You are talking about survival of the fittest here, so what about all the babies that get carried full term with medicated assistance, when the mothers' body tried to reject (and miscarry)????? HMMMMMMM?????? What's good for the gander is good for the goose, except my quoting it backwards is actually backwards in this case,,, > Is it always for the better to >preserve defective genes? No! what about those guys in some mountainous area >near india who live to like 120 without modern medicine. Modern medicine >would surely kill them if it were applied.. "some mountainous area"??? Which mountainous area??? Centarian+ Mountain Men? What about them??? Have they been doing the celibate hinduism hermit thing for the last 70 or 80 years or more, or are they fully functional members of the community they reside it??? HMMMMMM???????? Hold an ideal up like THAT one, without mention of the qualifiers will get you discredited. I'll whack you again myself if I have to. "Surely" he says. Surely, someday you will learn not to publish blanket assumptions on a public mailing list, or you will go down in phlames as a result. Modern medicine would kill them he says, migrating to that lifestyle would kill most modern sheeple, _I_ say. Now put up or shut up. Then, let's talk about how to gain r00t on that today show thing emmanuel mentioned earlier,,, Reeza! ============================================================================ The affairs of Men rarely rely on the dictates of logic, or even common sense. "Yeah, they mostly rely on something below the belt." -- my older sister ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 11:26:40 -0500 From: che guevara Subject: Re: [mitnick] guiness book of world record yea, the thinker's are way better than mine, i just put them on my site kenneth sooyna wrote: > > hey. i'm the one that made most of > those logos. but at least people > have seen them. > > the thinker > - > http://thinker.findhere.com > http://listen.to/duz > icq:19173887 > - -- :che guevara:: ::: ::: ::: :: "I never think of the future - it comes soon enough." -albert einstein ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 08:56:31 -0800 From: "Caliban Tiresias Darklock" Subject: Re: [mitnick]China ish-tar, and other things - -----Original Message----- From: rOTTEN To: mitnick@2600.com Date: Tuesday, December 29, 1998 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [mitnick]China ish-tar, and other things >Well, looks like SOMEONE graduated from the Caliban Tiresias School of >Drivel. Woohoo... I'm notorious. ;) Yes, you too can spout obscure, bookish, legal-sounding crap for hours and yet never actually say a thing! For just a small fee and your registration information, we can turn you into a filibustering congressman and jailhouse lawyer rolled up with a used car salesman AND a third year philosophy major! Yes, no one will have any clue what you're saying, and that's all for the best -- because after all, you never really said anything at all! Call now for your free response! That's 1-800-BULLSHIT... | Caliban Tiresias Darklock caliban@darklock.com | Darklock Communications http://www.darklock.com/ | U L T I M A T E U N I V E R S E I S N O T D E A D | 774577496C6C6E457645727355626D4974H -=CABAL::3146=- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 12:58:59 -0400 From: Patty Heffley Subject: Re: [mitnick] the today show I have made another banner identical to the one Emmanuel has already. With those and if we really got a few people, there are the 10 shirts that spell FREE KEVIN (one is the space between the words) that would be quite a presence. After the Today show everyone could walk in a line (all the while passing out information fliers) to MTV and stand around there with the shirts and banners. It was quite the hit at Internet World. That means at least 11 people for the shirts or 5 for the banners. FUN FUN FUN (I would have to get the shirts from the owners of course). What do you think? - -Patty ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "It Is Easier To Ask Forgiveness Than Permission" :) ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 10:12:40 -0800 From: "Caliban Tiresias Darklock" Subject: Re: [mitnick] CHECK THIS SHIT OUT - -----Original Message----- From: Reeza! To: mitnick@2600.com Date: Wednesday, December 30, 1998 8:31 AM Subject: Re: [mitnick] CHECK THIS SHIT OUT >At 01:45 AM 12/30/98 -0500, Roger Harrison - ACM2 Admin wrote: >> >>and that some cultures >>are better off without "education". > >Brzzzzzttt. Whoh, All Stop. WHAT? >And which cultures might those be??? I think he's referring to things like aboriginal tribes, and the basic idea that if it works don't fix it. But the definition of "works" differs from observer to observer; some people may actually believe the average nomadic hunter-gatherer culture would greatly benefit from cellular telephones. Others might think they just need to have some tobacco and liquor. Chances are they'll survive quite well without any of it. >>Also considering modern medicine, >>consider how many millions die from the poisons (drugs) doctors prescribe, There are two sides to this. Certainly, many people end up in worse shape from the attentions of doctors, but the vast majority of patients end up better off. Or at least *thinking* they're better off. I would tend to agree that drugs are overprescribed and that we don't understand them well enough (read the PDR sometime, it's shocking how many common drugs work for reasons which are "unclear" or "unknown"), but I certainly wouldn't say let's stop prescribing any and all drugs. Nobody really knows how aspirin works, but it sure is a nice thing to have, and I sure as hell wouldn't like to see caffeine or nicotine outlawed. (Conversely, while I think smoking marijuana is reasonably dumb, it's no dumber than my cigarette smoking or my reckless consumption of large quantities of coffee, so I can see why people want it legalised.) >Consider the number of men to submit themselves to testing and sampling of >drugs intended for women, because the female body is already wracked with >hormonal changes that make the outcome of the "medicine" unpredictable. Wait a minute. If you can't *test* it on women, but the drug is supposed to be *prescribed* to women, then wouldn't this indicate the drug is rather seriously flawed? >>and what about all the people that wind up living even though in other >>areas of the world they would be dead? They should be very glad they don't live in that area of the world, if you ask me. ;) Stephen Hawking wouldn't have survived all that long in most "primitive" cultures, which would have been a great loss. (Or would it? I mean, would most primitive cultures give a rat's ass about the nature of black holes?) Likewise, there are a lot of obnoxious people who would have been killed long ago in a less "enlightened" culture. And then there are people who die for various reasons that wouldn't exist in more primitive cultures -- heroin overdose, shot by an overprotective homeowner for cutting across a lawn, hit by a car, etc. -- who would evidently have lived. >You are talking about survival of the fittest here, so >what about all the babies that get carried full term with medicated >assistance, when the mothers' body tried to reject (and miscarry)????? Here's a thought... as modern medicine becomes more and more capable of "subverting" nature, nature incorporates more and more assumptions which include modern medicine. In other words, as we grow to depend more and more on modern medicine, nature backs off in those areas and lets us take care of it. In effect, technology and its products *becomes* natural as it reaches greater distribution. Some women who have multiple abortions, for example, begin to miscarry for no real reason when they try to have children -- because they have actually taught their bodies to abort. On larger scales, this can probably affect entire cultures. I could be wrong... > what about those guys in some mountainous area >>near india who live to like 120 without modern medicine. Modern medicine >>would surely kill them if it were applied.. This is the foundation of the whole "natural herbal remedy" craze... >Have they been doing the celibate hinduism hermit >thing for the last 70 or 80 years or more, or are they fully functional >members of the community they reside it??? Sex is part of my civic duty to the community?! Cool! >Surely, someday you will learn not to publish blanket >assumptions on a public mailing list, or you will go down in phlames as a >result. Well, *he's* sure. Sometimes that's enough. We all make blanket assumptions. (That was one right there.) Without them, the world becomes too complex to live in at all. >Modern medicine would kill them he says, migrating to that lifestyle would >kill most modern sheeple, _I_ say. Hey, another blanket assumption. And probably just as valid ;) | Caliban Tiresias Darklock caliban@darklock.com | Darklock Communications http://www.darklock.com/ | U L T I M A T E U N I V E R S E I S N O T D E A D | 774577496C6C6E457645727355626D4974H -=CABAL::3146=- ------------------------------ End of mitnick-digest V1 #231 *****************************