[00:39.730 --> 00:41.390]  Do we have the lights on?
[00:41.830 --> 00:42.530]  Do we have the lights on?
[00:44.110 --> 00:44.930]  Lights on.
[00:46.730 --> 00:47.530]  Outright, please?
[00:47.850 --> 00:48.650]  Yeah, lights on.
[00:55.490 --> 00:55.970]  Hello.
[00:56.450 --> 00:57.330]  Welcome, everybody.
[00:57.590 --> 00:58.910]  Thank you for coming to the Mock Trial.
[01:04.720 --> 01:08.540]  What I'll do first is introduce the players, I guess.
[01:09.760 --> 01:12.120]  Shane Skaletsky is going to be playing the plaintiff.
[01:14.580 --> 01:15.040]  Boo.
[01:15.920 --> 01:15.920]  Boo.
[01:16.400 --> 01:16.400]  Boo.
[01:16.740 --> 01:17.200]  Counsel.
[01:17.900 --> 01:18.920]  Counsel for the plaintiff.
[01:19.320 --> 01:20.500]  Counsel for the plaintiff.
[01:21.500 --> 01:24.040]  My name is Alex, and I'll be with the defense.
[01:24.740 --> 01:26.940]  And Adam Cohen is going to be leading the defense.
[01:27.160 --> 01:28.640]  And so is Scott Skinner.
[01:29.620 --> 01:30.560]  Do we have a hand for them?
[01:31.200 --> 01:32.160]  For the good guys.
[01:34.240 --> 01:36.080]  Okay, we're going to select the jury now.
[01:36.220 --> 01:37.500]  There's going to be six jurors.
[01:37.620 --> 01:40.820]  It's going to be a jury of our peers, our real peers.
[01:41.000 --> 01:42.480]  That's you, hopefully.
[01:43.840 --> 01:44.180]  Thank you.
[01:45.540 --> 01:51.180]  So what we're going to do is the counsel for the plaintiff is going to select three of you.
[01:51.400 --> 01:53.620]  And we're going to select three of you.
[01:53.840 --> 01:58.880]  So if we could have the lights on, we're going to go up and down the aisles and select six random people.
[01:59.140 --> 02:04.480]  And unless you can come up with a great excuse why you can't serve, you're going to serve.
[02:05.080 --> 02:05.920]  Thank you.
[02:06.960 --> 02:09.280]  Does the convicted felon excuse work?
[02:11.120 --> 02:14.260]  I think that it would exclude more than half the audience.
[02:14.600 --> 02:17.160]  So we'll let that be.
[02:27.800 --> 02:28.700]  So...
[02:28.700 --> 02:28.720]  Yeah.
[02:34.960 --> 02:44.740]  Well, I don't know what I'm
[03:05.140 --> 03:09.200]  saying.
[03:09.540 --> 03:14.140]  I don't know what you think.
[03:15.040 --> 03:15.840]  Oh, okay.
[03:16.380 --> 03:16.700]  Oh, okay.
[03:19.640 --> 03:21.240]  Oh, I know you have to say that.
[03:22.220 --> 03:23.200]  Oh, I just want to see that.
[03:23.500 --> 03:24.600]  Oh, I just want to see that.
[03:24.700 --> 03:25.220]  I'm ready.
[03:28.220 --> 03:30.080]  How many questions do I want to go out?
[03:30.400 --> 03:32.140]  Um, I don't know.
[03:40.740 --> 03:42.640]  How much space do I want to go out?
[03:43.780 --> 03:44.660]  Well, that's fine.
[03:44.880 --> 03:45.700]  It's not too unusual.
[03:46.320 --> 03:46.880]  There we go.
[03:48.300 --> 03:48.620]  Okay.
[03:48.620 --> 03:50.840]  I can not get out.
[04:24.830 --> 04:27.270]  I mean, all brides.
[04:29.550 --> 04:31.230]  Oyers, oyers, oyers.
[04:32.190 --> 04:34.610]  Honorable Judge Dunspot, President Biden.
[04:35.970 --> 04:40.710]  Case of the Motion Center Association of America versus 2600 Magazine and Amendment 14.
[04:41.130 --> 04:44.370]  Please disable all cell phones and speakers.
[04:45.130 --> 04:46.410]  Give attention to the court.
[04:56.460 --> 04:57.520]  Please be seated.
[05:01.800 --> 05:03.440]  Now, before we begin, is there...
[05:03.440 --> 05:04.940]  Do we have a defendant here?
[05:05.280 --> 05:06.860]  Bail, could you please bring the defendant in?
[06:01.320 --> 06:03.100]  Your Honor, I must object to this.
[06:04.640 --> 06:06.100]  There's no need for these handcuffs.
[06:06.600 --> 06:08.620]  Council, please rise when you make an objection to the court.
[06:08.980 --> 06:09.460]  Excuse me, sir.
[06:11.540 --> 06:14.220]  Okay, I'll hear your objection.
[06:17.530 --> 06:21.790]  Your Honor, my client here, there's no need for these handcuffs.
[06:21.950 --> 06:23.390]  He's not a flight risk.
[06:24.190 --> 06:25.970]  He hasn't been convicted of anything.
[06:26.350 --> 06:27.950]  I think this is completely unnecessary.
[06:29.170 --> 06:30.710]  Your Honor, defendant is clearly dangerous.
[06:34.390 --> 06:38.090]  He's definitely a threat to the community.
[06:40.990 --> 06:44.090]  Uh, Bail, if you can... you can release the handcuffs.
[06:44.530 --> 06:45.310]  Uh, I will...
[06:46.270 --> 06:48.730]  instruct the defendant to please, uh...
[06:48.730 --> 06:50.770]  maintain your decorum throughout this trial.
[06:51.810 --> 06:52.670]  Thank you, Your Honor.
[07:22.610 --> 07:23.830]  The defendant, can I have a seat?
[07:28.940 --> 07:30.100]  At the defense table.
[07:35.740 --> 07:36.400]  All right.
[07:43.280 --> 07:43.840]  Thank you.
[07:43.980 --> 07:48.140]  Before we begin, I will give very brief, uh, instructions to the jury.
[07:48.780 --> 07:56.220]  Now, uh, I understand there's been some media attention surrounding this case, and you all are required to keep an open mind throughout this.
[07:56.360 --> 08:01.600]  Don't take anything that you've heard prior to this case, uh, any information you may receive from any sources.
[08:01.740 --> 08:04.280]  You may not consider it when deliberating this case.
[08:04.400 --> 08:10.760]  The only thing you may consider is the evidence which has been adduced through the testimony of the witnesses who will be called.
[08:11.740 --> 08:16.520]  Please understand that anything that the lawyers say, anything that I say, is not evidence.
[08:16.860 --> 08:18.860]  Only the testimony given by the witnesses.
[08:18.860 --> 08:25.200]  And you are to take that evidence, and you are to determine whether it is factual or non-factual, and what weight you will give it.
[08:25.280 --> 08:27.480]  And I will give further instructions at the close of this trial.
[08:27.900 --> 08:29.620]  But keep that in mind at all times.
[08:29.820 --> 08:42.280]  The order of the trial is going to be, the plaintiffs are going to give an opening statement in which they will tell you what they intend to prove in this case, at which time the defendant will give their opening statement what they intend to prove or disprove of the plaintiffs.
[08:42.680 --> 08:46.660]  The plaintiffs will call witnesses, at which time they will conduct direct examination.
[08:46.660 --> 08:50.320]  The defendant will have an opportunity to cross-examine these witnesses.
[08:50.720 --> 08:54.200]  Then the defendant will call their witnesses, if they call any.
[08:54.400 --> 08:57.440]  The plaintiff's attorney will have an opportunity to cross-examine.
[08:57.600 --> 09:02.900]  And then at that time, the defense will give their closing arguments, and the plaintiffs will give their closing arguments.
[09:03.080 --> 09:08.380]  I will give some brief, final instructions at which time you will deliberate this case.
[09:08.640 --> 09:11.920]  Now before we begin, are there any motions by the plaintiff?
[09:14.400 --> 09:16.020]  Motion for summary judgment, Your Honor.
[09:16.860 --> 09:17.240]  Denied.
[09:19.700 --> 09:20.120]  Defense?
[09:22.640 --> 09:24.120]  No motions at this time, Your Honor.
[09:24.560 --> 09:24.860]  Thank you.
[09:24.960 --> 09:27.540]  At this time, are the plaintiffs ready?
[09:27.960 --> 09:28.620]  Yes, Your Honor.
[09:28.840 --> 09:29.700]  Is the defense ready?
[09:30.520 --> 09:31.140]  We're ready.
[09:31.640 --> 09:33.080]  Okay, plaintiffs, please call your first witness.
[09:34.820 --> 09:36.520]  Your Honor, may I make an opening statement?
[09:36.780 --> 09:37.200]  I'm sorry.
[09:38.040 --> 09:38.820]  Yes, you may.
[09:43.340 --> 09:58.300]  Just at this time, what we intend to prove here is that the defendant, Emanuel Goldstein, violated the Copyright Act amendment barring the circumvention of the technology protecting a copyright.
[09:58.620 --> 10:03.960]  Something that is so essential to this country.
[10:04.690 --> 10:10.450]  And you must find by a preponderance of this evidence, meaning more likely than not.
[10:10.450 --> 10:14.070]  No reasonable doubt here, this is a civil trial.
[10:14.690 --> 10:25.660]  You just have to find, more likely than not, that the defendant is liable for circumventing, for offering to the public this technological circumvention.
[10:27.600 --> 10:32.660]  The defendant here has violated the section of 17 U.S.C.
[10:32.920 --> 10:47.340]  section 1201 A2G, in which he may not offer or otherwise provide traffic in any technology that is primarily designed to circumvent the technology that controls the access to a work protected under the Copyright Act.
[10:47.340 --> 10:50.340]  DVDs are protected under the Copyright Act.
[10:51.330 --> 10:52.190]  DVDs are protected under the Copyright Act.
[10:52.190 --> 11:04.840]  The defendant here has provided access to several places, many places as a matter of fact, that allow for people to go and access the circumvented technology.
[11:04.840 --> 11:06.660]  He's offering this free to the public.
[11:07.340 --> 11:10.700]  And we are asking for $26 million in damages.
[11:14.580 --> 11:16.680]  Defense, your opening statement.
[11:18.140 --> 11:19.320]  Thank you, Your Honor.
[11:27.730 --> 11:30.710]  Let's talk about what exactly is on trial here.
[11:30.710 --> 11:50.850]  The prosecution, on behalf of a group that has the audacity to refer to itself as the Motion Picture Association of America, even though there are tons of filmmakers in America, including Eric Corley, who are not represented by it, will say that the defendant has attacked intellectual property,
[11:51.330 --> 12:02.250]  that he may try to transform this case into an issue of preserving artists' rights to benefit from their creative efforts.
[12:02.570 --> 12:04.590]  Words like piracy will come up.
[12:05.050 --> 12:12.130]  They may say Eric is un-American and that it is your responsibility, jurors, as Americans, to find him guilty.
[12:13.930 --> 12:15.990]  But guilty of what?
[12:16.950 --> 12:24.370]  They will try to make you ignore that this case is at its heart about Eric's and your inalienable 200-year-old First Amendment rights.
[12:25.610 --> 12:34.990]  Make you believe that he deserves to be punished because of a law that was put on the books within the last two years, which criminalizes behavior never before classified as criminal by our government.
[12:38.990 --> 12:42.250]  Reverse engineering has become the rule in our society.
[12:42.250 --> 12:44.610]  It's made incredible innovations possible.
[12:44.850 --> 12:52.270]  It's laid the groundwork for the entire revolution that has transformed our economy into an information-driven economy.
[12:53.210 --> 12:56.910]  All that Eric has done is participate in that as a publisher.
[12:58.250 --> 12:59.950]  Eric Corley is a publisher.
[13:00.710 --> 13:09.770]  He has the right to distribute any information that is not slanderous, libelous, fraudulent, and that does not violate any copyright laws.
[13:11.050 --> 13:17.250]  The DMCA is an attempt to place a preemptive attack on our fair use rights.
[13:17.630 --> 13:19.470]  What are those, you may ask?
[13:20.010 --> 13:29.830]  It happens to be the case that when you buy copyrighted material, as soon as you buy it, the copyright holder no longer has any rights over the copyrighted object.
[13:31.350 --> 13:37.210]  The Supreme Court has recently, just this year, upheld the first sale rule...
[13:37.210 --> 13:39.130]  Counsel, I will instruct the jury on the law.
[13:39.250 --> 13:40.090]  That is not your place.
[13:40.290 --> 13:40.470]  Nope.
[13:42.150 --> 13:42.870]  Sorry, Judge.
[13:45.690 --> 14:06.570]  Well, suffice to say that the long-standing tradition of the copyright law enables people who buy copyrighted objects to use them as they see fit, so long as they do not violate certain terms.
[14:07.550 --> 14:10.690]  Now, this is all sort of beside the point.
[14:10.870 --> 14:25.890]  Eric, as a publisher, has simply made available to the public at large material that is rather the DeCSS code that makes it possible for people to access information.
[14:26.250 --> 14:32.330]  Once you purchase it, no one can tell you how you can and cannot access the information.
[14:32.330 --> 14:36.030]  That is more than a 200-year-old tradition.
[14:38.290 --> 14:45.870]  We will establish, in fact, that this particular tool is a... the DeCSS, rather, is a tool.
[14:46.070 --> 14:53.730]  It's part of a larger toolbox being assembled by people seeking to exercise their fair use rights on Linux boxes.
[14:54.410 --> 14:57.130]  That would be computers using the Linux operating system.
[14:57.130 --> 15:17.810]  Currently, the MPAA has created a licensing procedure whereby only the manufacturers of DVD players who buy their decryption code can use... rather, license their... can play their software.
[15:18.010 --> 15:20.970]  Only those manufacturers can use that software.
[15:22.050 --> 15:25.670]  The Linux community never had a player provided to them.
[15:26.050 --> 15:31.670]  And the effort to produce the DeCSS is part of an open-source movement, which we'll get into later.
[15:31.890 --> 15:32.270]  Objection, Your Honor.
[15:33.110 --> 15:33.530]  Grounds?
[15:34.030 --> 15:34.470]  Grounds?
[15:34.650 --> 15:35.730]  Yes, the statement is misleading.
[15:35.950 --> 15:39.890]  There is a legal... it's completely misleading to the jury.
[15:39.990 --> 15:41.070]  There's a legal round for it.
[15:41.130 --> 15:42.790]  There's a legal machine.
[15:42.970 --> 15:43.270]  Live it.
[15:43.450 --> 15:46.950]  You can play DVDs with that on a Linux box.
[15:46.950 --> 15:48.890]  Objection is overruled.
[15:49.270 --> 15:54.430]  You can bring evidence during the trial with regards to that subject.
[15:54.790 --> 15:56.530]  Please continue, Counselor.
[15:57.070 --> 15:58.570]  I'll wrap up here.
[16:00.890 --> 16:08.150]  The point is that Eric Corley, as a publisher, has the right to distribute this information.
[16:08.150 --> 16:14.090]  And, you know, the things that people may do with that information, they may or may not be criminal.
[16:15.190 --> 16:19.570]  But Eric's... Eric has the benefit of a presumption of innocence...
[16:20.110 --> 16:20.590]  Objection, Your Honor.
[16:20.730 --> 16:21.650]  This is a civil trial.
[16:23.890 --> 16:24.850]  Objection is sustained.
[16:30.760 --> 16:33.060]  I'm beginning to get a sense of...
[16:33.060 --> 16:34.460]  Anyway, the...
[16:34.460 --> 16:35.220]  Who was that, Counselor?
[16:36.980 --> 16:37.760]  Excuse me.
[16:42.260 --> 16:44.020]  I am actually going to...
[16:44.020 --> 16:50.620]  Please, to the judge, I'd like to give my colleague and my co-counsel an opportunity to make some statements.
[16:52.600 --> 16:53.080]  Briefly.
[16:55.180 --> 16:56.060]  Thank you, Your Honor.
[16:59.460 --> 17:00.320]  I'm gonna...
[17:00.880 --> 17:02.420]  I'm gonna tell you a secret.
[17:03.880 --> 17:08.780]  As I'm sure you all must be aware by now, lawyers speak a strange language.
[17:09.900 --> 17:14.010]  It sounds like English, but none of it makes any sense.
[17:15.080 --> 17:21.360]  And while we may not use secret handshakes, like the Freemasons or the Knights Templar, we do use secret code words.
[17:22.640 --> 17:25.160]  I'm gonna tell you one such code word right now.
[17:27.060 --> 17:38.420]  We have a term that describes laws that are unwanted, unsolicited, laws that make no sense, serve no purpose, and do no good.
[17:39.320 --> 17:41.660]  We call such laws spam.
[17:43.140 --> 17:44.200]  And much like they're...
[17:44.200 --> 17:47.920]  Counselor, Counselor, are you gonna go into the facts of this case?
[17:48.120 --> 17:50.360]  If you'll indulge me for just a moment, Your Honor.
[17:50.360 --> 18:03.200]  A very brief moment, and please make sure that you are not going in a direction towards something which is up to the legislature or to the appellate courts, and not up to a jury.
[18:03.680 --> 18:04.560]  I understand.
[18:04.820 --> 18:05.400]  Thank you, Your Honor.
[18:08.030 --> 18:09.140]  Okay, so...
[18:11.060 --> 18:12.360]  We'll skip that argument.
[18:16.080 --> 18:18.200]  Let's talk about the DMCA very briefly.
[18:19.220 --> 18:20.660]  The DMCA is a witch hunt.
[18:21.300 --> 18:24.720]  It's a law in search of a crime that doesn't exist.
[18:25.840 --> 18:35.200]  And just when the residents of Salem, Massachusetts, in 1692, when they couldn't find any witches, they went in search of...
[18:36.620 --> 18:39.060]  They went in search to terrorize the general populace.
[18:39.320 --> 18:47.970]  Just so, too, does the DMCA fail to find any moral legitimacy, and is therefore being set upon our common-sense notions of what is right and what is wrong.
[18:48.700 --> 18:51.860]  What is right is that copyrighted works should not be pirated.
[18:52.580 --> 18:55.490]  And there are already laws on the books that make piracy illegal.
[18:56.080 --> 18:58.180]  But my client is not charged with piracy.
[18:58.320 --> 19:00.560]  And that's a very important fact I want the jury to keep in mind.
[19:01.120 --> 19:02.420]  This is not about piracy.
[19:02.420 --> 19:04.560]  My client is not being charged with piracy.
[19:06.360 --> 19:12.560]  My client is being charged with circulating a computer program that allows you to watch DVDs on your computer.
[19:13.260 --> 19:15.720]  A program that expands your viewing options.
[19:16.140 --> 19:17.490]  This is also a right.
[19:18.080 --> 19:22.400]  What is right is that you should be able to watch your movies on the platform of your choice.
[19:23.160 --> 19:25.040]  The DMCA makes this...
[19:25.040 --> 19:29.560]  Well, I would say that the prosecution would claim the DMCA makes this illegal.
[19:32.040 --> 19:32.840]  The DMCA...
[19:32.840 --> 19:34.540]  Counselor, this is not a prosecution.
[19:34.740 --> 19:35.760]  This is a civil case.
[19:35.880 --> 19:36.180]  Excuse me.
[19:36.260 --> 19:36.680]  Sorry, sir.
[19:39.560 --> 19:42.580]  I'd like to tell you another secret, if I may.
[19:48.430 --> 19:48.830]  Okay?
[19:48.930 --> 19:49.570]  So far, so good.
[19:50.990 --> 19:53.870]  It's a secret that the MPAA doesn't want you to know.
[19:54.490 --> 19:57.830]  And it's a secret that, frankly, this court doesn't want you to know either.
[19:59.810 --> 20:02.670]  You are not here to determine the guilt or innocence of my client.
[20:03.070 --> 20:04.690]  You are here to validate a law.
[20:05.830 --> 20:13.630]  You are like the president who's sitting in his Oval Office, at his desk in the Oval Office, and a bill has just been brought before you.
[20:13.930 --> 20:15.290]  This bill is at DMCA.
[20:15.910 --> 20:18.950]  It requires your signature, your seal of approval.
[20:18.950 --> 20:22.210]  Counselor, you've gone a little over the line.
[20:23.030 --> 20:27.670]  This is a jury to determine a verdict in a civil case.
[20:27.830 --> 20:30.110]  This is not a legislative body.
[20:32.730 --> 20:33.870]  I understand, your honor.
[20:33.990 --> 20:36.270]  I was making an analogy.
[20:37.510 --> 20:39.090]  Well, it is a poor analogy.
[20:40.170 --> 20:42.130]  And I'm not going to warn you again.
[20:42.530 --> 20:43.210]  I understand, your honor.
[20:43.330 --> 20:44.690]  We're going to move on, then.
[20:48.250 --> 20:52.710]  The point here is that the DMCA is a brand new and untested law.
[20:54.010 --> 20:55.490]  I don't think there's any dispute there.
[20:58.410 --> 20:59.770]  It is like a submarine.
[21:08.210 --> 21:13.310]  As I was saying, it is like a submarine that has been hastily patched together and tossed...
[21:14.790 --> 21:17.330]  Okay, that's enough with the analogies, Counselor.
[21:19.130 --> 21:24.370]  I think that how long the law has been on the books is completely irrelevant.
[21:25.170 --> 21:33.310]  And the submarine-slash-legislative-bill-signing analogies have come to an end.
[21:33.310 --> 21:35.470]  Please finish your opening statement.
[21:36.210 --> 21:36.570]  Yes, your honor.
[21:36.790 --> 21:37.270]  I apologize.
[21:40.990 --> 21:46.310]  Yes, I'm going to conclude my remarks and hand the microphone over to...
[21:47.490 --> 21:48.370]  Thank you.
[21:50.810 --> 21:53.850]  Ladies and gentlemen, please, this is a trial.
[21:54.250 --> 21:56.050]  This is not a play.
[21:59.070 --> 21:59.550]  We're done.
[22:02.130 --> 22:03.270]  Plaintiffs, your first witness.
[22:04.030 --> 22:04.730]  Yes, your honor.
[22:04.890 --> 22:06.750]  I'd like to call Mr. Jack Valenti.
[22:09.820 --> 22:10.820]  Ladies and gentlemen...
[22:12.280 --> 22:13.160]  He sucks!
[22:15.480 --> 22:20.580]  Sir, if you would like to be removed from the court in handcuffs, feel free to make another comment.
[22:27.450 --> 22:29.330]  Is Mr. Valenti in the courtroom?
[22:29.550 --> 22:30.890]  He doesn't know how to suck!
[22:33.750 --> 22:35.170]  Is Mr. Valenti in the courtroom?
[22:36.270 --> 22:36.950]  Yes, your honor.
[22:38.290 --> 22:40.810]  Bailiff, will you please bring him to the witness table and swear him in?
[22:41.430 --> 22:42.290]  Oh, he's over here.
[22:44.550 --> 22:45.050]  No, here.
[22:48.540 --> 22:49.060]  It's okay.
[22:49.900 --> 22:50.300]  Down.
[22:51.160 --> 22:51.420]  Okay.
[22:52.160 --> 22:53.000]  We'll get him on the appeal.
[22:57.420 --> 22:59.540]  Why is he wearing his own picture on his back?
[23:10.690 --> 23:11.500]  John Valenti.
[23:14.070 --> 23:16.100]  Valenti, V-A-L-E-N-T-I.
[23:17.220 --> 23:18.240]  It's Jack for short.
[23:19.310 --> 23:20.760]  Thank you, Mr. Valenti.
[23:21.700 --> 23:23.860]  Counselor for the plaintiff, please begin your direct examination.
[23:24.880 --> 23:25.660]  I... yes.
[23:26.330 --> 23:27.880]  Good evening, Mr. Valenti.
[23:28.760 --> 23:29.600]  Good evening.
[23:30.420 --> 23:32.400]  Now, Mr. Valenti, what is your occupation?
[23:32.780 --> 23:36.830]  I am the president of the Motion Picture Association of America.
[23:37.720 --> 23:38.360]  Okay.
[23:39.890 --> 23:51.200]  And as the head of the Motion Picture Association of America, or MPAA for short, you have some efforts regarding piracy, yes?
[23:51.420 --> 23:51.900]  I do.
[23:52.880 --> 23:53.330]  Okay.
[23:54.100 --> 24:00.280]  And you have... have you testified before Congress regarding the Digital Millennium Copyright Act?
[24:00.460 --> 24:01.070]  I have.
[24:01.900 --> 24:02.480]  Okay.
[24:02.940 --> 24:07.860]  And what have you said regarding the idea of fair use?
[24:09.480 --> 24:17.860]  I have said that it is essential that holders of intellectual property rights, copyrights...
[24:20.360 --> 24:20.920]  Um...
[24:20.920 --> 24:21.460]  Mr. Valenti...
[24:21.460 --> 24:25.740]  Would something refresh your recollection of what you've testified regarding?
[24:25.920 --> 24:26.400]  Perhaps.
[24:27.520 --> 24:27.790]  All right.
[24:35.580 --> 24:36.560]  Could you please read...
[24:36.560 --> 24:37.840]  It seems to be coming back to me now.
[24:44.610 --> 24:45.270]  A statement.
[24:45.630 --> 24:48.370]  Sir, do not read from a document which is not in evidence.
[24:48.770 --> 24:49.330]  Well, should I...
[24:49.330 --> 24:51.090]  You may use a document to refresh your recollection.
[24:51.890 --> 24:55.170]  Please place it down away from you when you are testifying.
[24:55.550 --> 24:56.170]  Excuse me, Your Honor.
[24:56.290 --> 25:03.050]  May I submit the documents on Mr. Valenti's statement regarding the Digital Millennium Copyright Act?
[25:03.130 --> 25:04.190]  May I submit this into evidence?
[25:04.550 --> 25:05.930]  Have you shown it to defense counsel?
[25:20.870 --> 25:22.370]  Testimony of Mr. Jack Valenti.
[25:22.370 --> 25:23.090]  Thank you.
[25:27.360 --> 25:29.760]  Counsel for defense, do you have any objection?
[25:30.590 --> 25:31.420]  No, we don't, Your Honor.
[25:31.760 --> 25:32.320]  Thank you very much.
[25:32.920 --> 25:35.460]  Okay, plaintiff's exhibit number one is now moved into evidence.
[25:36.840 --> 25:37.840]  Thank you, Your Honor.
[25:38.800 --> 25:43.020]  Please read from the part below the statement.
[25:43.900 --> 25:53.080]  It makes it easier for research, scholarship, commentary, and similar uses, which do not harm the economic interest of owners.
[25:54.220 --> 25:54.900]  Okay.
[25:55.320 --> 25:57.180]  That was referring to fair use?
[25:57.520 --> 25:59.780]  Yes, that is fair use.
[26:03.120 --> 26:10.460]  All right, and so is that why the DVDs do have this copyright?
[26:10.680 --> 26:14.200]  So they would be allowed to use this, correct?
[26:14.200 --> 26:14.260]  Correct.
[26:14.380 --> 26:22.040]  They would be allowed to use these DVDs within a reasonable manner and allowing academics to use it, correct?
[26:22.920 --> 26:25.140]  Within limitations of existing law.
[26:25.820 --> 26:26.680]  Objection, Judge?
[26:27.560 --> 26:28.020]  Grounds.
[26:28.440 --> 26:30.060]  Definition of reasonable manner?
[26:31.560 --> 26:32.080]  Thank you, Your Honor.
[26:32.080 --> 26:32.860]  Please rephrase your question.
[26:33.660 --> 26:45.640]  Um, yes, would, um, would, would an academic or someone who is doing research be able to use, um, uh...
[26:45.640 --> 26:46.280]  Objection, Judge?
[26:47.000 --> 26:47.520]  Grounds.
[26:47.960 --> 26:53.340]  Um, I don't know that Jack Valenti can comment on what a reason, what a, uh, academic would, uh, say.
[26:54.240 --> 26:56.780]  Your Honor, he testified about this in front of Congress.
[26:57.740 --> 26:58.840]  Objection is overruled.
[26:59.620 --> 27:00.940]  Please continue your question.
[27:01.620 --> 27:01.900]  Yes.
[27:11.770 --> 27:13.050]  Okay, Mr. Valenti.
[27:13.350 --> 27:27.230]  So, you would be able to use, if, for instance, an academic, a librarian, somebody who was doing research on something behind, um, the encryption mode used for DVDs, would they be able to do that with permission?
[27:27.830 --> 27:28.970]  In your eyes?
[27:29.310 --> 27:30.890]  With permission of the copyright holders?
[27:31.030 --> 27:31.330]  Absolutely.
[27:32.090 --> 27:32.650]  Thank you.
[27:32.950 --> 27:34.870]  I have no further questions for this witness, Your Honor.
[27:35.830 --> 27:36.710]  Defense Counsel...
[27:38.430 --> 27:40.930]  Defense Counsel, would you like to cross-examine this witness?
[27:41.210 --> 27:42.290]  Uh, yes, we would, Your Honor.
[27:42.670 --> 27:43.250]  Please proceed.
[27:54.000 --> 27:56.500]  Thank you very much for showing up today, Mr. Valenti.
[27:56.810 --> 27:57.760]  Are you feeling better?
[28:00.140 --> 28:02.540]  I'm feeling a little under the weather today, Counsel.
[28:02.540 --> 28:03.260]  Okay.
[28:03.380 --> 28:08.100]  You just testified previously that you are the president of the Motion Picture Association.
[28:12.500 --> 28:14.180]  Mr. Valenti, are you feeling all right?
[28:14.780 --> 28:16.040]  Again, Your Honor, I apologize.
[28:16.200 --> 28:20.240]  I've, uh, been awake for, uh, two weeks, with no sleep.
[28:21.080 --> 28:29.050]  I was brought here, under duress, for this meaningless hearing, trial.
[28:29.050 --> 28:31.760]  A simple yes or no will suffice, sir.
[28:33.160 --> 28:34.290]  No, I'm not feeling well, Your Honor.
[28:34.520 --> 28:37.480]  Please move your chair away from the judge's bench.
[28:40.120 --> 28:40.760]  Thank you.
[28:40.940 --> 28:41.460]  Please continue.
[28:42.880 --> 28:47.550]  Okay, so, uh, Mr. Valenti, you just testified that you are the president of the Motion Picture Association of America?
[28:50.020 --> 28:50.860]  Is that okay?
[28:51.220 --> 28:51.580]  Yes.
[28:51.580 --> 28:52.020]  Yes, yes.
[28:52.200 --> 28:52.520]  Okay.
[28:55.200 --> 28:57.160]  And you've testified before Congress?
[28:57.540 --> 28:58.280]  I have.
[28:58.460 --> 29:00.420]  Do you know how many times you've testified before Congress?
[29:00.680 --> 29:01.780]  I have no idea.
[29:03.360 --> 29:07.240]  Have you testified before Congress on the DMCA?
[29:11.910 --> 29:13.030]  I believe so.
[29:13.490 --> 29:13.810]  Yes.
[29:15.310 --> 29:20.870]  And how much did it cost for you to buy the, uh, fair use rights from everybody in America?
[29:20.870 --> 29:20.950]  Thank you.
[29:21.390 --> 29:23.250]  I object to the nature of that question.
[29:23.570 --> 29:26.510]  Sir, you are not in a position to object to anything.
[29:27.210 --> 29:27.670]  Your Honor.
[29:29.570 --> 29:30.430]  Badgering the witness.
[29:30.670 --> 29:31.810]  Could you receive the question, please?
[29:32.150 --> 29:35.950]  I will sustain the plaintiff's attorney's objection.
[29:37.690 --> 29:38.530]  Thank you, Your Honor.
[29:39.850 --> 29:42.830]  Do you know who the, uh, defendant is in this...
[29:43.790 --> 29:46.470]  Do you know who the defendant is in this case, Mr. Valenti?
[29:47.890 --> 29:49.430]  Uh, I believe...
[29:50.230 --> 29:51.910]  Some, some magazine, I believe.
[29:52.470 --> 29:52.850]  Okay.
[29:53.070 --> 29:54.910]  Some pipsweet publication.
[29:56.370 --> 29:58.070]  Could you please point him out?
[29:58.830 --> 29:59.810]  Point out the magazine?
[30:00.030 --> 30:01.410]  No, point out the defendant, please.
[30:01.690 --> 30:01.870]  Oh.
[30:03.430 --> 30:05.490]  He was wheeled in on a cart, I'll give you a hint.
[30:07.090 --> 30:10.070]  It's most likely that scruffy-looking individual at the end of the table.
[30:13.240 --> 30:14.120]  Scruffy-looking...
[30:14.120 --> 30:14.820]  That's the lawyer.
[30:20.080 --> 30:23.940]  Do you know who Immanuel Goldstein is, Mr. Valenti?
[30:24.620 --> 30:25.080]  Okay.
[30:25.080 --> 30:25.500]  Never heard of him.
[30:26.280 --> 30:26.920]  Oh, okay.
[30:28.720 --> 30:29.480]  Yes, I believe so.
[30:30.520 --> 30:32.820]  Do you know what a pirate is, Mr. Valenti?
[30:34.960 --> 30:35.820]  I think so.
[30:36.160 --> 30:37.660]  Can you explain that to the court, please?
[30:38.000 --> 30:39.500]  Someone who steals something.
[30:40.140 --> 30:40.900]  A pirate?
[30:41.020 --> 30:41.860]  That doesn't belong to them.
[30:42.660 --> 30:43.060]  Okay.
[30:47.200 --> 30:48.320]  Do they have parrots?
[30:50.460 --> 30:51.240]  I don't know.
[30:52.500 --> 30:53.860]  I guess I suppose they could.
[30:54.340 --> 30:56.840]  Have you ever heard of DeCSS, Mr. Valenti?
[30:58.860 --> 30:59.640]  Never heard of it.
[31:00.000 --> 31:01.400]  Have you ever heard of CSS?
[31:02.720 --> 31:03.460]  Never heard of it.
[31:03.480 --> 31:05.240]  You never heard of the content scrambling system?
[31:06.200 --> 31:07.060]  I can't recall.
[31:07.600 --> 31:09.700]  And, I'm sorry, were you the plaintiff in this case?
[31:11.140 --> 31:11.880]  I am.
[31:12.060 --> 31:12.560]  Okay.
[31:13.520 --> 31:16.640]  I believe my organization, the Motion Picture Association of America is.
[31:17.580 --> 31:18.100]  Okay.
[31:18.900 --> 31:20.320]  Of which I'm president, I might add.
[31:22.320 --> 31:22.840]  Congratulations.
[31:25.780 --> 31:32.180]  Okay, well DeCSS, in this case, is alleged to facilitate pirating of DVDs.
[31:32.180 --> 31:34.080]  Does that ring a bell at all?
[31:34.340 --> 31:35.540]  That sounds a little familiar.
[31:35.760 --> 31:35.940]  Right.
[31:36.340 --> 31:37.900]  Do you know for a fact that that's true?
[31:39.540 --> 31:40.400]  I don't know.
[31:41.600 --> 31:41.820]  Okay.
[31:41.960 --> 31:43.520]  Do you know what a criminal is?
[31:45.720 --> 31:46.480]  Objection, Your Honor.
[31:46.700 --> 31:47.200]  Grounds?
[31:47.460 --> 31:48.440]  Sir, grounds?
[31:48.940 --> 31:51.800]  This is a civil trial, not a criminal trial.
[31:52.380 --> 31:52.880]  Relevance?
[31:54.140 --> 31:54.640]  Defense?
[31:57.260 --> 31:59.460]  It's relevant in the whole, Your Honor.
[31:59.620 --> 32:00.400]  The next question.
[32:00.860 --> 32:02.240]  Your Honor, what a whole?
[32:02.600 --> 32:04.860]  I will give you some leeway, sir.
[32:05.120 --> 32:06.540]  Objection is overruled.
[32:07.560 --> 32:07.820]  Okay.
[32:11.560 --> 32:19.320]  Would you explain to me, Mr. Valenti, what you would consider a criminal act?
[32:20.200 --> 32:25.400]  Criminal act is something done by someone who is engaged in violating the law.
[32:26.100 --> 32:26.360]  Okay.
[32:26.660 --> 32:28.560]  Do you know what source code is, Mr. Valenti?
[32:30.720 --> 32:31.700]  I don't know.
[32:32.100 --> 32:33.060]  Your Honor, objection.
[32:33.980 --> 32:34.320]  Ground?
[32:34.320 --> 32:37.490]  Mr. Valenti is testifying as the head of the Motion Picture Association.
[32:38.720 --> 32:40.500]  Your Honor, he's the plaintiff.
[32:40.500 --> 32:42.880]  He's let the plaintiff's counsel complete objections, sir.
[32:43.100 --> 32:47.700]  He is not an expert witness on anything having to do with technology.
[32:47.700 --> 32:49.940]  He's the head of the Motion Picture Association of America.
[32:50.220 --> 32:55.080]  Sir, are you trying to get this evidence as expert testimony?
[32:55.580 --> 32:56.420]  No, Your Honor.
[32:56.500 --> 32:58.600]  I'm just trying to clarify the facts of the case.
[32:59.680 --> 32:59.820]  Okay.
[32:59.840 --> 33:00.680]  Objection is overruled.
[33:00.740 --> 33:05.660]  The jury will not consider this testimony as expert testimony, but as testimony of a lay person.
[33:06.020 --> 33:06.860]  Please continue.
[33:08.800 --> 33:12.760]  So, Mr. Valenti, you say you don't know what source code is.
[33:13.440 --> 33:14.760]  I can't say I do, no.
[33:15.180 --> 33:15.480]  Okay.
[33:16.360 --> 33:27.560]  Do you know if it's true that you allege that Emanuel Goldstein, the defendant who was rolled in on a cart before, posted the DeCSS source code on his website?
[33:28.160 --> 33:29.200]  I can't recall.
[33:29.840 --> 33:30.280]  Okay.
[33:31.100 --> 33:32.760]  Do you know that's pivotal to the trial?
[33:35.860 --> 33:36.620]  I don't know.
[33:38.640 --> 33:39.080]  Okay.
[33:39.320 --> 33:40.100]  Thank you, Your Honor.
[33:40.260 --> 33:46.040]  I would like to turn this over now to my co-counsel, who has a couple quick and brief questions for the court.
[33:46.040 --> 33:46.820]  Yes.
[33:52.790 --> 34:00.230]  Would it be possible to ask questions of Mr. Valenti as an expert in his capacity as the president of the MPAA?
[34:02.530 --> 34:05.170]  You would have to have him qualified as an expert first.
[34:06.890 --> 34:10.710]  Mr. Valenti, do you consider yourself an expert on the MPAA?
[34:12.230 --> 34:13.510]  The answer, no.
[34:17.810 --> 34:19.390]  Could you restate the question, please?
[34:23.250 --> 34:24.430]  Can he ask me to restate the question?
[34:24.430 --> 34:24.990]  Please restate the question?
[34:25.170 --> 34:25.430]  Okay.
[34:28.490 --> 34:30.230]  I'll actually leave this question aside.
[34:30.230 --> 34:31.470]  I'm going to move on to something here.
[34:32.790 --> 34:34.230]  Would you consider yourself...
[34:34.970 --> 34:46.210]  Would you be surprised to learn that parties to the MPAA have been involved in the spread of information in the form of DeCSS?
[34:49.810 --> 34:50.450]  I'm not.
[34:50.450 --> 34:50.510]  I'm not.
[34:50.570 --> 34:50.850]  Question, Your Honor.
[34:51.170 --> 34:53.050]  Assuming fact is not in this case.
[34:54.090 --> 34:54.690]  Overruled.
[34:56.270 --> 34:57.510]  Please answer the question.
[34:59.590 --> 35:01.050]  Could you restate the question?
[35:01.450 --> 35:01.810]  Sure.
[35:02.750 --> 35:10.430]  Would it surprise you to learn that members of the MPAA have spread DeCSS?
[35:13.610 --> 35:15.630]  Well, I imagine we've spread a lot of things.
[35:21.290 --> 35:26.630]  I have no specific recollection of spreading that particular thing, but I think I've spread a few things.
[35:29.410 --> 35:29.990]  That's all.
[35:31.030 --> 35:31.870]  Any redirect?
[35:32.630 --> 35:33.350]  No, Your Honor.
[35:34.050 --> 35:35.410]  Okay, the witness is excused.
[35:36.070 --> 35:36.650]  Thank you, Your Honor.
[35:38.970 --> 35:40.070]  Plaintiff, your next witness?
[35:46.190 --> 35:47.030]  Yes, Your Honor.
[35:48.530 --> 35:49.230]  Plaintiff, rest.
[35:50.630 --> 35:52.450]  Are there any motions by the defense?
[35:57.590 --> 35:58.110]  No.
[35:58.970 --> 36:00.310]  The defense, call your first witness.
[36:04.140 --> 36:05.740]  We call Emmanuel Goldstein.
[36:09.260 --> 36:10.860]  Ballist, please swear in the witness.
[36:35.380 --> 36:39.920]  Mr. Valenti, is that a cigarette I see in your hand in my courtroom?
[36:40.640 --> 36:41.440]  No, Your Honor.
[36:49.110 --> 36:50.210]  Counselor, please proceed.
[36:51.130 --> 36:54.110]  Uh, Emanuel, uh, would you, uh, state your profession?
[36:58.120 --> 36:59.040]  Is this thing on?
[37:03.560 --> 37:04.680]  I am a journalist.
[37:09.340 --> 37:10.540]  Do you want to pick this up outside?
[37:11.980 --> 37:13.040]  I can take you with that one.
[37:13.180 --> 37:15.120]  Mr. Goldstein, please do not...
[37:15.120 --> 37:16.760]  Objection, Your Honor, could you please put the handcuffs on the defendant?
[37:16.980 --> 37:18.360]  Counselor, I'm in the middle of speaking.
[37:18.580 --> 37:19.220]  Was that a threat?
[37:19.340 --> 37:20.200]  Talk to me like that.
[37:20.200 --> 37:22.660]  Mr. Goldstein, do not address...
[37:22.660 --> 37:23.060]  My sin?
[37:23.160 --> 37:25.620]  Mr. Valenti, you will be quiet.
[37:25.840 --> 37:29.280]  You had your opportunity to speak and be heard, and now you are through.
[37:29.720 --> 37:33.500]  Mr. Goldstein, do not address anyone except for your attorney.
[37:35.400 --> 37:36.020]  He's through.
[37:37.480 --> 37:38.480]  Sir, please continue.
[37:38.720 --> 37:38.800]  Okay.
[37:39.500 --> 37:44.340]  Um, in the past, have you ever, uh, published computer codes on your website?
[37:48.000 --> 37:57.500]  I don't recall publishing computer code, per se, unless you want to consider HTML code as computer code, in which case we've published quite a bit of it.
[38:00.280 --> 38:06.880]  Um, why would you, uh, have you ever published computer source code on your website?
[38:07.220 --> 38:12.600]  We've published computer source code in our magazine, which is affiliated with our website.
[38:12.600 --> 38:13.320]  Mm-hmm.
[38:14.160 --> 38:18.080]  And what was your intent, uh, when you did publish the code in your magazine?
[38:20.420 --> 38:22.120]  The non-DeCSS?
[38:22.280 --> 38:23.760]  You mean code beforehand?
[38:23.840 --> 38:27.780]  Um, just broadly speaking, when you publish, why do you publish what you publish?
[38:27.940 --> 38:32.700]  To educate, to share information, to show people how things work or don't work.
[38:32.960 --> 38:33.800]  You enjoy this?
[38:34.380 --> 38:35.660]  I enjoy what I do.
[38:37.380 --> 38:44.940]  You consider the, uh, the First Amendment critical to your ability to enjoy these, uh, these endeavors, these, uh, these things that you do?
[38:45.080 --> 38:46.860]  I think the First Amendment's pretty cool.
[38:49.720 --> 38:51.440]  Let's, uh, let's get to the DeCSS.
[38:51.620 --> 38:56.640]  Have you ever, um, have you ever published a DeCSS in your magazine or on your website?
[38:57.700 --> 39:01.000]  Um, it's been on the website, has not been in the magazine.
[39:02.060 --> 39:03.660]  Uh, did you write DeCSS?
[39:04.280 --> 39:05.720]  Oh, no, no, no, no.
[39:05.880 --> 39:06.740]  Somebody else wrote that.
[39:07.060 --> 39:12.220]  All we did was, was, was print the source code and, and print the story going along with the source code.
[39:12.460 --> 39:17.280]  You mean, uh, all you did was publish code that someone else had written?
[39:17.400 --> 39:17.620]  Objection, Your Honor.
[39:17.740 --> 39:18.400]  Asked and answered.
[39:19.700 --> 39:20.100]  Overruled.
[39:22.460 --> 39:24.700]  All you did was publish code that someone else had written?
[39:24.900 --> 39:26.680]  Yes, I can't even write a basic program.
[39:26.840 --> 39:30.280]  All I, I, basically, we just published someone else's code.
[39:30.280 --> 39:33.740]  Were you the first publisher of DeCSS?
[39:34.180 --> 39:35.100]  No, I was not.
[39:36.600 --> 39:50.660]  Would you say that, um, since you've been, uh, since you've been forced to take the DeCSS code off of your website, that, um, it's impossible for anyone to get DeCSS anywhere now?
[39:50.740 --> 39:51.400]  Objection, Your Honor.
[39:51.500 --> 39:52.420]  Calls for speculation.
[39:53.400 --> 39:53.840]  Sustained.
[39:54.780 --> 40:09.080]  Uh, Judge, actually, um, the, the, the, uh, the defendant is an expert on, um, on web-related publishing and would, would actually know, it wouldn't be expected if he might, he might actually know that it does exist on the web.
[40:09.340 --> 40:13.080]  The defendant has not been qualified as an expert in anything at this time.
[40:13.080 --> 40:13.800]  Huh.
[40:14.200 --> 40:14.360]  Okay.
[40:16.920 --> 40:17.580]  Moment, Judge?
[40:17.780 --> 40:18.100]  Sure.
[40:26.950 --> 40:35.510]  So you no longer actually publish the code on your website, but are, is there any way that someone visiting your site might actually find the code on the web?
[40:36.510 --> 40:38.090]  On the whole web?
[40:38.270 --> 40:39.370]  On the whole web?
[40:39.490 --> 40:40.070]  The world wide web?
[40:40.090 --> 40:44.090]  We have a list of links to other sites that might still have the code up.
[40:44.090 --> 40:50.890]  You can also find the same list, or a bigger list, by going through things like Infoseek, owned by Disney, I believe.
[40:51.470 --> 40:51.690]  Mm-hmm.
[40:59.450 --> 41:06.090]  At this time, Judge, I'd actually like to, um, enter into the, uh, enter into evidence.
[41:07.750 --> 41:08.890]  Where'd the evidence go?
[41:09.210 --> 41:10.150]  Where'd the evidence go?
[41:10.350 --> 41:13.270]  Enter into evidence the, um, some, some evidence.
[41:15.270 --> 41:23.350]  Establishing that the, um, that in fact, by going to, uh, Disney's, uh, search engine, one can actually get...
[41:24.370 --> 41:27.190]  One can actually, uh, find the DeCSS.
[41:28.110 --> 41:29.750]  Please show it to the plaintiff's council.
[41:38.080 --> 41:40.260]  This was, uh, printed out earlier today.
[41:40.260 --> 41:49.740]  It is, uh, a printout of a, uh, a series of links offered in response to entering DeCSS at go.com.
[41:49.860 --> 41:52.940]  The go network is owned by Disney, which is a member of the MPAA.
[41:53.400 --> 41:55.360]  Well, gee, I see an interview.
[41:56.400 --> 41:58.620]  And, let's see here, what else do I see?
[41:59.160 --> 42:02.780]  Counselor, do you have an objection to this being entered into evidence at this time?
[42:04.340 --> 42:05.460]  No objection, Your Honor.
[42:09.480 --> 42:12.420]  Defense Exhibit A is moved into evidence.
[42:14.460 --> 42:17.720]  Um, Emmanuel, have you ever pirated a DVD?
[42:18.560 --> 42:19.720]  No, I have not.
[42:20.840 --> 42:25.960]  Um, have you ever, um, advocated the piracy of DVDs?
[42:26.340 --> 42:27.820]  No, I have not.
[42:29.280 --> 42:37.820]  Uh, then, um, then why, why would you publish, uh, the DeCSS, or any links to the DeCSS?
[42:38.520 --> 42:40.420]  Because it has nothing to do with piracy.
[42:40.540 --> 42:41.820]  It has nothing to do with piracy?
[42:41.940 --> 42:43.060]  It has nothing to do with piracy?
[42:43.140 --> 42:43.980]  Could you elaborate on that?
[42:44.320 --> 42:52.080]  Well, it's got something to do with figuring out how to play a DVD on a Linux machine or on other platforms.
[42:52.680 --> 42:55.740]  But, you could always copy DVDs before this came around.
[42:56.840 --> 42:58.340]  It has nothing to do with piracy.
[42:59.780 --> 43:03.600]  Great, unless my colleagues have any questions, I'm satisfied.
[43:05.580 --> 43:06.420]  Defense rests.
[43:07.920 --> 43:08.900]  Defense rests?
[43:09.540 --> 43:09.700]  Yes.
[43:10.540 --> 43:12.580]  Do you mean that you're through with your direct examination?
[43:12.840 --> 43:14.400]  We're through with our direct examination, Your Honor.
[43:15.040 --> 43:17.520]  Counsel for the plaintiff, cross-examination.
[43:18.080 --> 43:18.380]  Uh-oh.
[43:44.340 --> 43:45.220]  Please proceed.
[43:45.500 --> 43:46.240]  Yes, Your Honor.
[43:47.100 --> 43:52.240]  May I ask that the handcuffs please be put back on Mr. Goldstein?
[43:52.240 --> 43:53.500]  Why would you ask that?
[43:54.120 --> 43:54.820]  I'm afraid.
[43:56.160 --> 43:56.980]  Defense counsel?
[43:57.480 --> 43:58.960]  Your Honor, that's ridiculous.
[44:00.460 --> 44:00.960]  Justification?
[44:02.000 --> 44:02.900]  I'm afraid.
[44:04.100 --> 44:09.320]  Well, Your Honor, this whole trial is about the MPAA being afraid.
[44:09.440 --> 44:10.540]  But the question is, is it valid?
[44:10.960 --> 44:13.340]  Is there an objective reason to be afraid?
[44:13.680 --> 44:15.320]  Your Honor, I physically fear for myself.
[44:15.520 --> 44:17.660]  This has nothing to do with his theory about the trial.
[44:18.620 --> 44:21.280]  Counsel, there is a bailiff here in case any problems arise.
[44:21.280 --> 44:22.360]  Your request is denied.
[44:22.880 --> 44:23.800]  Thank you, Your Honor.
[44:25.380 --> 44:25.780]  Okay.
[44:27.800 --> 44:33.260]  I will admonish Mr. Goldstein to remain in your seat during the course of this question.
[44:39.120 --> 44:40.780]  Uh, good evening, Mr. Goldstein.
[44:46.000 --> 44:47.480]  Good evening, Mr. Goldstein.
[44:55.300 --> 44:56.960]  Good evening, Mr. Goldstein.
[44:56.960 --> 44:59.840]  The jury and the witnesses in this case.
[45:01.900 --> 45:05.000]  Please make sure that I do not see any interaction.
[45:05.220 --> 45:05.980]  Just look over there.
[45:06.140 --> 45:07.660]  Please begin your cross-examination.
[45:11.750 --> 45:12.810]  Okay, yes.
[45:13.130 --> 45:18.470]  Um, so you've got this so-called, um, 2600 quote-unquote magazine, yes?
[45:19.210 --> 45:20.970]  Yes, this quote-unquote magazine.
[45:21.530 --> 45:22.070]  All right.
[45:22.770 --> 45:23.910]  And it has, you have a website?
[45:24.730 --> 45:26.050]  Yes, I have a website.
[45:26.510 --> 45:26.850]  Okay.
[45:27.390 --> 45:32.070]  And, uh, do you have a copyright on 2600 magazine?
[45:32.470 --> 45:34.830]  Yes, I have a copyright on 2600 magazine.
[45:34.830 --> 45:35.550]  And on the website?
[45:36.830 --> 45:39.450]  I have, well, we put the copyright notice.
[45:39.610 --> 45:41.390]  I don't know if we actually have the copyright, but it's there.
[45:41.390 --> 45:42.850]  There's a copyright notice on the website.
[45:42.850 --> 45:44.130]  Everybody else does it, so we did it, too.
[45:44.890 --> 45:45.470]  All right.
[45:47.890 --> 45:48.190]  Okay.
[45:49.070 --> 45:50.310]  Um, let's see.
[45:52.730 --> 45:53.470]  Just hold on.
[45:55.610 --> 45:56.090]  Okay.
[45:56.850 --> 45:58.330]  And, let's see now.
[45:58.510 --> 46:06.650]  So you did print, uh, links to this, uh, DeCSS, uh, little cracking, hacking, little thingy, right, on your site?
[46:07.630 --> 46:11.930]  We posted links to this little thingy that, uh, Yes.
[46:11.930 --> 46:17.270]  Your Honor, we object to the, to the tone of the, of the plaintiff's, uh, lawyer.
[46:17.590 --> 46:22.890]  Uh, there's always been an attempt to demonize, uh, members of the community to which, uh, uh, Manuel belongs.
[46:23.170 --> 46:24.210]  And, uh, we just really want...
[46:24.210 --> 46:25.530]  Your Honor, this is...
[46:25.530 --> 46:25.690]  This is...
[46:25.690 --> 46:26.250]  Overruled.
[46:27.930 --> 46:28.710]  Please continue.
[46:29.230 --> 46:29.450]  All right.
[46:29.550 --> 46:32.630]  Your Honor, may I request permission to drain my little thingy?
[46:37.810 --> 46:41.210]  Sir, do not address the court.
[46:41.670 --> 46:44.050]  You are off of the witness stand.
[46:45.510 --> 46:46.490]  Thank you.
[46:49.230 --> 46:50.190]  You're through.
[46:52.430 --> 46:54.050]  Please continue, Counselor.
[46:54.590 --> 46:55.290]  Okay, yes.
[46:56.110 --> 46:57.550]  Um, let's see now.
[46:59.570 --> 47:05.110]  Um, tell me, uh, Mr. Goldstein, what's shadow over Long Island?
[47:07.630 --> 47:09.730]  That's a name I haven't heard in a long time.
[47:10.250 --> 47:14.990]  Uh, uh, Judge, any objection, any possible relevance to this question?
[47:15.070 --> 47:15.570]  Yes, Your Honor.
[47:15.830 --> 47:16.950]  There is relevance.
[47:17.170 --> 47:17.530]  I'm getting there.
[47:17.530 --> 47:19.030]  I haven't thought of that in many a year.
[47:19.230 --> 47:20.450]  Objection is overruled.
[47:21.270 --> 47:21.670]  Okay.
[47:21.670 --> 47:24.390]  It brings back such dark memories, such...
[47:24.790 --> 47:27.070]  Your Honor, could you please direct the witness to answer the question?
[47:27.430 --> 47:28.410]  I'm getting to it.
[47:30.430 --> 47:31.850]  Sir, please answer the question.
[47:31.850 --> 47:32.730]  Dark memories.
[47:32.990 --> 47:33.130]  Oh, yeah.
[47:33.270 --> 47:33.330]  Okay.
[47:33.450 --> 47:37.450]  Well, it, uh, basically, it was a radio play that I wrote many years ago.
[47:37.650 --> 47:40.890]  Back in 19, I believe, 1985.
[47:43.930 --> 47:46.670]  Mr. Goldstein, I have a copy of your sworn affidavit.
[47:46.750 --> 47:48.430]  Did you want to look at that and refresh your memory?
[47:49.350 --> 47:51.390]  No, I think I, it was 1985.
[47:52.510 --> 47:52.770]  Okay.
[47:53.190 --> 47:55.050]  And what was Shadow Over Long Island about?
[47:56.110 --> 47:57.490]  About two hours, maybe?
[48:00.430 --> 48:00.930]  I think.
[48:00.930 --> 48:02.850]  I'd have to listen to it again.
[48:03.410 --> 48:03.930]  All right.
[48:04.230 --> 48:06.650]  What, what, what was it written about?
[48:06.790 --> 48:07.550]  What was the subject matter?
[48:08.410 --> 48:15.010]  It was about a, a nuclear evacuation of Long Island, which is where I live.
[48:15.390 --> 48:15.850]  Okay.
[48:16.530 --> 48:18.810]  And what it would be like, and how everybody would die.
[48:19.650 --> 48:20.050]  All right.
[48:20.350 --> 48:23.930]  And be panicked, mobs in the street, cars bashing into each other.
[48:24.770 --> 48:24.830]  Okay.
[48:24.830 --> 48:27.170]  Animals being born with two heads and six eyes.
[48:28.770 --> 48:29.450]  All right.
[48:29.450 --> 48:31.130]  And we were just playing music on the radio.
[48:31.290 --> 48:31.710]  We didn't care.
[48:31.910 --> 48:32.910]  We didn't, we just kept going.
[48:33.070 --> 48:34.690]  You know, like nothing, nothing mattered at all.
[48:34.870 --> 48:35.810]  Shadow Over Long Island.
[48:35.910 --> 48:36.010]  Yeah.
[48:36.170 --> 48:37.330]  Build your nuclear power plants.
[48:37.410 --> 48:37.910]  And we don't care.
[48:38.030 --> 48:39.730]  Just pollute our, pollute our lives.
[48:40.950 --> 48:41.370]  All right.
[48:42.130 --> 48:42.490]  That was fun.
[48:42.750 --> 48:43.630]  And, um...
[48:43.630 --> 48:44.570]  Those are the good old days.
[48:45.450 --> 48:51.650]  Now, recently, this past spring now, you were, you know, you were down in D.C.
[48:51.770 --> 48:54.890]  for some protest with the WTO and IMF, yes?
[48:55.050 --> 48:55.150]  Yeah.
[48:55.270 --> 48:57.290]  We wanted to get the IMF and those bastards out of town.
[48:59.150 --> 49:00.910]  You haven't been arrested, Mr. Goldstein.
[49:01.130 --> 49:01.870]  Have I been arrested?
[49:02.690 --> 49:03.090]  Objection.
[49:03.330 --> 49:03.570]  Yes.
[49:03.890 --> 49:04.290]  Grounds.
[49:05.270 --> 49:06.830]  Well, it just seems like all...
[49:06.830 --> 49:08.730]  It's unclear where any of this is going.
[49:08.810 --> 49:10.570]  What any of this has to do with the case before...
[49:10.570 --> 49:16.930]  I'm trying to establish a pattern of complete and willing disobedience and disregard for any sort of law whatsoever.
[49:16.930 --> 49:21.110]  Right, by citing the content of a creative effort...
[49:21.110 --> 49:22.730]  What is this, McCarthyism now?
[49:22.870 --> 49:28.210]  Counselor, your objection is overruled.
[49:28.570 --> 49:37.550]  The jury can take into account the witness's criminal history, if any, to determine whether they find him credible as a witness.
[49:39.570 --> 49:40.510]  Please continue.
[49:41.170 --> 49:43.070]  So, Mr. Goldstein, have you ever been arrested?
[49:43.930 --> 49:45.830]  As me or as someone else?
[49:48.550 --> 49:53.350]  So, Mr. Goldstein, have you ever been arrested under the name of Emanuel Goldstein and or Eric Corley?
[49:53.630 --> 49:53.830]  Ah.
[49:54.650 --> 49:54.850]  Yeah.
[49:55.030 --> 49:58.790]  Well, there were a couple of instances under those names.
[49:59.130 --> 49:59.410]  Yes.
[49:59.810 --> 50:00.290]  All right.
[50:00.470 --> 50:00.790]  There were.
[50:01.590 --> 50:01.910]  Okay.
[50:02.830 --> 50:04.030]  And when you...
[50:04.030 --> 50:06.010]  Let's get back to DeCSS.
[50:06.210 --> 50:09.590]  I think we've gone down that other road plenty, I think.
[50:09.850 --> 50:10.230]  All right.
[50:10.510 --> 50:12.090]  So, let's get back to DeCSS.
[50:12.310 --> 50:14.830]  Now, when you published those links on your website...
[50:15.270 --> 50:20.050]  Now, this was after Mr. Johansen was arrested, correct?
[50:20.330 --> 50:20.750]  In Norway?
[50:21.390 --> 50:24.490]  I think Mr. Johansen was arrested after...
[50:24.490 --> 50:26.270]  After we posted the code.
[50:26.570 --> 50:27.190]  All right.
[50:27.430 --> 50:28.610]  And we always had links up.
[50:29.070 --> 50:29.370]  Okay.
[50:31.170 --> 50:31.850]  Did you...
[50:31.850 --> 50:39.090]  After he was arrested now, you understood that this code was something that was considered illegal, right?
[50:40.070 --> 50:40.950]  Publishing on...
[50:40.950 --> 50:46.110]  It was never considered to be illegal until we got an injunction telling us to take it down, which we did.
[50:47.650 --> 50:48.170]  Okay.
[50:48.670 --> 50:49.110]  So, you're back.
[50:51.230 --> 50:51.750]  Um...
[50:51.750 --> 50:52.270]  Let's see.
[50:52.550 --> 50:53.930]  Now, did you know...
[50:53.930 --> 51:01.470]  Now, did you know that there is a legal form of a DVD-playing device on a Linux box?
[51:01.470 --> 51:06.190]  There may be something now, but there wasn't anything then.
[51:07.630 --> 51:11.310]  And, this has no bearing on other operating systems.
[51:13.290 --> 51:13.810]  Okay.
[51:14.290 --> 51:16.930]  Why do you have a copyright on your magazine and your website?
[51:17.290 --> 51:19.210]  Is it to protect your economic interests?
[51:19.930 --> 51:20.810]  Like everyone?
[51:21.350 --> 51:22.570]  That's so somebody doesn't...
[51:22.570 --> 51:26.650]  That's so somebody doesn't go and copy the entire thing and just print it as their own.
[51:28.650 --> 51:29.170]  Okay.
[51:29.290 --> 51:31.990]  Are you referring to any sort of, uh, specific...
[51:32.670 --> 51:34.030]  Any specific magazine?
[51:35.050 --> 51:36.150]  Any specific magazine?
[51:36.370 --> 51:36.530]  Mm-hmm.
[51:36.530 --> 51:37.450]  Refer it to my magazine.
[51:37.970 --> 51:38.470]  No.
[51:38.650 --> 51:39.570]  The magazine you're referring to.
[51:39.570 --> 51:43.410]  Uh, I'm referring to, um, Blacklisted 411.
[51:43.950 --> 51:45.290]  Ah, that piece of trash.
[51:46.970 --> 51:49.610]  So, you're protecting your economic interests, correct?
[51:50.970 --> 51:56.690]  Because they were trying to... they were ripping off your magazine and trying to sell it as their own, correct?
[51:56.690 --> 51:59.090]  No, they... they were... they were confused.
[51:59.430 --> 52:01.530]  They... they printed some of our material.
[52:01.910 --> 52:02.470]  Objection.
[52:02.730 --> 52:03.130]  Grounds.
[52:03.850 --> 52:04.410]  Irrelevance.
[52:05.870 --> 52:06.430]  Overruled.
[52:07.370 --> 52:09.550]  They... they printed some of our material and they thought...
[52:09.550 --> 52:10.250]  They wrote it.
[52:10.390 --> 52:11.370]  We corrected them.
[52:11.850 --> 52:12.190]  Okay.
[52:12.390 --> 52:12.930]  So, you...
[52:17.450 --> 52:19.750]  Were you protecting your interests?
[52:20.150 --> 52:20.830]  Economically, I guess?
[52:21.390 --> 52:29.350]  Now, if they... if they were to do this, though, maybe for a sort of school project or something, maybe if they looked it up in the library and then printed it out, it would be fine, right?
[52:29.350 --> 52:31.890]  Well, yeah, but they don't sell school projects in Borders.
[52:35.290 --> 52:38.090]  Has 2600 ever been involved in school projects that you know of?
[52:38.290 --> 52:40.470]  You must get lots of letters from high school kids, yeah?
[52:40.490 --> 52:41.030]  Oh, yeah, yeah.
[52:41.230 --> 52:41.270]  Right.
[52:41.610 --> 52:42.370]  We're at every school.
[52:42.610 --> 52:42.810]  Right.
[52:43.070 --> 52:44.330]  You're sold in Borders, aren't you?
[52:44.610 --> 52:45.470]  We're sold at Borders.
[52:45.650 --> 52:45.950]  Absolutely.
[52:46.430 --> 52:47.370]  Borders, Barnes & Noble.
[52:47.370 --> 52:48.510]  You can find us at Walden's.
[52:48.530 --> 52:48.970]  Just making sure.
[52:48.970 --> 52:49.910]  Some Kmarts, in fact.
[52:50.230 --> 52:50.290]  Alrighty.
[52:51.630 --> 52:52.030]  Okay.
[52:52.470 --> 52:53.130]  Thanks.
[52:53.950 --> 52:54.270]  Alright.
[52:55.790 --> 52:59.730]  So, you've got copyright to protect your economic interests.
[53:00.230 --> 53:05.910]  And Jack Valenti has copyright on DVD encryption to protect his economic interests.
[53:06.430 --> 53:07.770]  Would that be a fair statement?
[53:09.230 --> 53:12.530]  If every DVD is copyrighted by Jack Valenti, I guess it would be.
[53:14.490 --> 53:15.150]  Okay.
[53:15.490 --> 53:16.430]  Thank you, Mr. Goldstein.
[53:17.130 --> 53:19.550]  Just a couple more quick questions.
[53:21.470 --> 53:22.670]  Just one moment, Your Honor.
[53:23.290 --> 53:23.430]  Alright.
[53:24.150 --> 53:31.530]  So, Mr. Goldstein, you consider that the fact that you publish DeCSS is to spread news, spread information, is it some sort of journalism?
[53:32.310 --> 53:33.550]  Is that what you consider this?
[53:33.630 --> 53:36.110]  It's information, and we print information.
[53:36.110 --> 53:37.010]  It's information.
[53:37.590 --> 53:38.110]  Information.
[53:38.870 --> 53:39.170]  Alright.
[53:39.850 --> 53:40.370]  Now...
[53:40.370 --> 53:40.990]  Information.
[53:41.790 --> 53:42.290]  Okay.
[53:42.550 --> 53:46.410]  And you don't print anything inciting anyone to do anything, do you?
[53:46.410 --> 53:48.550]  Anything calling to action?
[53:49.290 --> 53:50.810]  Within source code?
[53:51.510 --> 53:52.690]  Just in general.
[53:52.910 --> 53:56.610]  Does 2600 print anything to incite anyone to do anything?
[53:56.910 --> 53:59.170]  Sometimes we may suggest things.
[53:59.370 --> 54:00.370]  We print opinion pieces.
[54:00.370 --> 54:11.410]  So, this is a so-called sharing information, is something like, tell Congress to stop DMCA, from 2600 website from February 13th of 2000.
[54:11.870 --> 54:17.290]  Something else, from March 23rd of 2000, fucknbc.com, in regards to that.
[54:17.530 --> 54:21.410]  We'd like to see a more comprehensive fuck NBC site become established.
[54:21.410 --> 54:28.470]  This is after you received a threatening letter from NBC's general counsel, and you wanted to see a more comprehensive site.
[54:28.670 --> 54:30.110]  Counselor, is there a question, Counselor?
[54:31.450 --> 54:49.670]  Would it be, okay, Mr. Goldstein, would it be reasonable, perhaps, for someone to be able, do you think that somebody might be able to view your site as something that spreads a sort of information that may be considered propaganda and or possibly illegal information?
[54:50.370 --> 54:51.490]  Illegal information?
[54:51.950 --> 54:52.510]  Illegal information?
[54:53.030 --> 55:04.030]  Information that is considered to be something that, to be something that you've already known about, that you were supposed to take down, like fucknbc.com?
[55:04.250 --> 55:14.310]  Judge, move that before Emmanuel would answer that, you would please instruct him as to what illegal information actually is, so that he can answer it intelligently.
[55:14.590 --> 55:17.190]  Is there an objection to the question?
[55:19.050 --> 55:25.410]  We're willing to have him answer it if he can be supplied with a definition that the court would deem appropriate.
[55:25.810 --> 55:27.350]  I will find that the question is appropriate.
[55:27.350 --> 55:28.950]  I'm sorry, Your Honor, may I clarify my question?
[55:29.430 --> 55:30.110]  Yes, you may.
[55:30.290 --> 55:30.430]  Okay.
[55:31.090 --> 55:31.330]  All right.
[55:31.630 --> 55:33.710]  So, would it be reasonable...
[55:33.710 --> 55:39.350]  I would note that this witness is not an expert in legality or illegality.
[55:39.570 --> 55:40.970]  I understand that, Your Honor.
[55:41.090 --> 55:43.030]  I'm not using him as an expert witness.
[55:43.030 --> 55:43.990]  Please continue.
[55:44.370 --> 55:44.930]  Okay.
[55:45.570 --> 55:46.050]  Just...
[55:47.150 --> 55:49.190]  Would it be just reasonable then?
[55:49.370 --> 55:59.150]  Would a reasonable person maybe believe then, once they saw your site, that you were using it to offer certain things to the public, like DCSS?
[55:59.590 --> 56:00.450]  Speculative, Your Honor.
[56:02.030 --> 56:02.590]  Stand.
[56:03.830 --> 56:04.710]  Okay, Your Honor.
[56:04.810 --> 56:07.550]  I have no further questions for this so-called witness.
[56:08.950 --> 56:10.850]  Defense counsel, do you have any redirect?
[56:11.530 --> 56:11.910]  Better.
[56:17.540 --> 56:18.920]  Can we have one moment, Your Honor?
[56:19.760 --> 56:20.080]  Yes.
[56:35.120 --> 56:35.600]  Sir.
[56:37.620 --> 56:39.400]  Do not touch the microphone stand.
[56:41.140 --> 56:41.980]  It was loose.
[56:48.660 --> 56:49.940]  No more questions, Your Honor.
[56:50.980 --> 56:52.020]  You may step down.
[56:53.300 --> 56:54.120]  Can I get a beer?
[56:55.220 --> 56:56.920]  Sir, do not address the court.
[56:57.880 --> 56:58.440]  Can I get a beer?
[57:04.320 --> 57:07.900]  Sounds like the microphone is loose like the magazine's morals.
[57:13.020 --> 57:16.080]  Defense counsel, please call your next witness.
[57:19.320 --> 57:21.680]  We call Mr. Jon Johansen, please.
[57:23.680 --> 57:26.000]  Belf, please have the witness sworn in.
[57:26.000 --> 57:27.040]  I do.
[57:32.960 --> 57:33.680]  Please have a seat.
[57:34.220 --> 57:35.980]  Say your name and spell your last name to your record.
[57:37.400 --> 57:40.580]  Jon Johansen, J-O-H-A-N-S-E-N.
[57:43.580 --> 57:45.000]  Council of Defense, please proceed.
[57:46.080 --> 57:47.380]  Good evening, Mr. Johansen.
[57:47.520 --> 57:47.900]  Good evening.
[57:48.520 --> 57:48.860]  Welcome.
[57:49.220 --> 57:49.660]  Thanks.
[57:49.880 --> 57:50.340]  To New York.
[57:52.660 --> 57:55.800]  Mr. Johansen, what is DeCSS?
[57:56.840 --> 58:00.620]  It's an application that decrypts CSS encrypted content.
[58:03.080 --> 58:05.200]  And did you write this utility?
[58:05.660 --> 58:07.040]  Yes, I'm one of the authors.
[58:09.360 --> 58:11.520]  And why did you write this utility?
[58:12.280 --> 58:18.240]  I wrote it so that open source operating systems such as Linux could have DVD playback support.
[58:18.780 --> 58:25.060]  So you're familiar with open source and is it safe to assume that you're familiar with something called the open source movement?
[58:25.060 --> 58:25.980]  Yes, absolutely.
[58:26.160 --> 58:29.740]  Can you tell the court a little bit about what you believe to be the open source movement?
[58:30.580 --> 58:43.960]  It's a movement that believes all applications should come with source so they will be able to modify themselves and correct bugs and make changes to the software in order to make it better.
[58:45.300 --> 58:51.600]  Can you clarify to the court exactly how DeCSS fits into the entirety of the open source movement?
[58:51.600 --> 59:07.560]  Well, Linux is an operating system totally open source and DeCSS is also open source and a component of LIVID, Linux video and video development group.
[59:08.840 --> 59:09.520]  Okay.
[59:11.180 --> 59:16.900]  And Mr. Johansen, to your knowledge, do you know if it's possible to copy a DVD?
[59:20.110 --> 59:21.450]  To copy a DVD?
[59:21.750 --> 59:25.530]  Yes, just to copy a DVD without using DeCSS.
[59:25.810 --> 59:26.830]  Yes, it's possible.
[59:27.190 --> 59:28.010]  It is possible.
[59:31.120 --> 59:39.040]  And to your knowledge, does DeCSS facilitate in any way copying or pirating DVDs?
[59:39.040 --> 59:41.440]  No, not that I am aware of.
[59:41.700 --> 59:48.000]  And do you believe pirating DVDs can negatively affect the DVD industry?
[59:49.640 --> 59:53.720]  Well, I'm not an expert on how piracy impacts.
[59:54.020 --> 01:00:05.100]  But do you believe that people just blatantly copying DVDs and distributing them to their friends can have an effect on DVD sales in the industry?
[01:00:05.100 --> 01:00:07.400]  I'll sustain an objection to that question.
[01:00:07.940 --> 01:00:08.600]  This is speculative.
[01:00:10.360 --> 01:00:11.200]  Objection, Your Honor.
[01:00:11.580 --> 01:00:12.140]  Speculation.
[01:00:15.880 --> 01:00:16.960]  Thank you, Your Honor.
[01:00:23.350 --> 01:00:32.510]  When you created DeCSS, is it safe to assume that you did not intend for it to be used in any manner to pirate DVDs?
[01:00:33.170 --> 01:00:33.530]  Absolutely.
[01:00:34.210 --> 01:00:34.770]  Objection, Your Honor.
[01:00:34.930 --> 01:00:36.670]  Hearsight calls for state of mind at the time.
[01:00:38.290 --> 01:00:38.650]  Overruled.
[01:00:40.770 --> 01:00:43.910]  Your Honor, I'd like to introduce a piece of evidence right now.
[01:00:43.910 --> 01:00:51.470]  This is a report that tracks the DVD sales from...
[01:00:52.790 --> 01:00:53.470]  I'm sorry.
[01:00:53.710 --> 01:00:54.270]  Yes.
[01:00:54.810 --> 01:01:02.590]  It's a report that tracks DVD player sales from April 1997 until the present day.
[01:01:02.590 --> 01:01:16.570]  Starting with 1997 yearly sales of 315,136 DVD players and ending presently as of 630 with 2,700,939 DVD players.
[01:01:16.790 --> 01:01:26.950]  The report also establishes that for every player yearly there were purchased 24 separate DVD cassettes or DVD discs.
[01:01:26.950 --> 01:01:27.930]  Objection, Your Honor.
[01:01:28.170 --> 01:01:28.450]  Relevance.
[01:01:28.570 --> 01:01:28.970]  Please show it to the...
[01:01:28.970 --> 01:01:29.450]  Please show it to the...
[01:01:29.450 --> 01:01:29.850]  Please show it to the defense counsel.
[01:01:34.490 --> 01:01:36.290]  I'm sorry, the plaintiff's counsel.
[01:01:43.680 --> 01:01:45.080]  I object to this, Your Honor.
[01:01:45.340 --> 01:01:46.100]  What is the relevance?
[01:01:46.460 --> 01:01:52.780]  The relevance is to show that DVD sales are not affected by DeCSS utility.
[01:01:53.380 --> 01:01:57.200]  I'm going to overrule the objection on the grounds of relevance.
[01:01:57.240 --> 01:02:02.580]  However, I'm not going to move this into evidence at this time until a proper foundation has been laid.
[01:02:03.840 --> 01:02:04.760]  Thank you, Your Honor.
[01:02:04.760 --> 01:02:04.780]  All right.
[01:02:05.460 --> 01:02:06.680]  We have no further questions.
[01:02:07.040 --> 01:02:08.280]  Thank you, Mr. Johansen.
[01:02:10.060 --> 01:02:12.600]  Applantiff's counsel, please cross-examine.
[01:02:13.380 --> 01:02:17.800]  Yes, I just have a couple quick questions for you, Mr. Johansen.
[01:02:19.240 --> 01:02:34.580]  Okay, firstly, now, so being one of the authors of DeCSS, were there any legal consequences for you as a result of this?
[01:02:36.120 --> 01:02:37.340]  In your home country?
[01:02:38.320 --> 01:02:39.320]  Yes, there were some.
[01:02:40.600 --> 01:02:41.560]  Were you arrested?
[01:02:42.600 --> 01:02:44.740]  That depends on your definition of an arrest.
[01:02:45.700 --> 01:02:50.020]  Did officers come into your home and handcuff you and cease belongings?
[01:02:50.020 --> 01:02:51.860]  No, I was not handcuffed.
[01:02:52.140 --> 01:02:52.660]  Okay.
[01:02:53.160 --> 01:02:54.440]  Were you taken down...
[01:02:57.080 --> 01:02:58.500]  Unlike the defendant.
[01:03:00.280 --> 01:03:03.380]  Were you taken down to a police station and questioned?
[01:03:04.380 --> 01:03:06.560]  Or were you taken to an office somewhere?
[01:03:07.040 --> 01:03:08.200]  Yes, I was taken to an office.
[01:03:08.200 --> 01:03:08.920]  Okay, sweet.
[01:03:09.480 --> 01:03:09.800]  All right.
[01:03:10.820 --> 01:03:11.260]  And...
[01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:14.420]  Okay, so I don't want to talk about that anymore.
[01:03:14.880 --> 01:03:16.200]  But I know it's...
[01:03:18.540 --> 01:03:18.980]  However...
[01:03:18.980 --> 01:03:28.020]  Now, it's my understanding that authors of Linux, like Mr. Torvalds, you're familiar with Mr. Torvalds, yes?
[01:03:28.460 --> 01:03:28.580]  Yes.
[01:03:29.520 --> 01:03:30.120]  Okay.
[01:03:30.860 --> 01:03:31.460]  So...
[01:03:32.400 --> 01:03:47.440]  If it was possible, if something like DeCSS were to become somewhat standardized, somewhat like Linux is now, in which it's distributed by different companies, would you be receiving any proceeds from DeCSS?
[01:03:48.520 --> 01:03:49.240]  Proceeds?
[01:03:49.380 --> 01:03:49.400]  Proceeds?
[01:03:49.400 --> 01:03:51.160]  If companies were to...
[01:03:51.160 --> 01:03:54.860]  Would they be purchasing source code from you and distributing it?
[01:03:55.260 --> 01:03:55.560]  No.
[01:03:55.880 --> 01:03:58.300]  DeCSS is under the GPL license.
[01:03:58.720 --> 01:03:59.620]  It's freely available.
[01:04:00.600 --> 01:04:02.300]  Completely... freely available?
[01:04:03.000 --> 01:04:07.440]  Well, you can't actually sell the application.
[01:04:08.840 --> 01:04:10.760]  You can take money for distributing it.
[01:04:11.400 --> 01:04:11.660]  Okay.
[01:04:13.220 --> 01:04:18.540]  Did you ask anybody permission to play with the encryption of our DVD disc?
[01:04:18.800 --> 01:04:21.480]  Did you call us up and ask us to do this?
[01:04:22.440 --> 01:04:26.360]  No, I wasn't aware that I needed to ask you to use the product I've already bought.
[01:04:34.180 --> 01:04:34.960]  I have no...
[01:04:34.960 --> 01:04:37.700]  Well, ladies and gentlemen in the galley, please control yourselves.
[01:04:38.220 --> 01:04:40.660]  I have no further questions for this witness, Your Honor.
[01:04:41.460 --> 01:04:42.920]  Any redirect by the defense?
[01:04:45.260 --> 01:04:46.080]  We're satisfied.
[01:04:46.080 --> 01:04:48.000]  Sir, you may step down.
[01:04:48.240 --> 01:04:48.840]  Thank you.
[01:04:54.930 --> 01:04:57.370]  Defense counsel, do you have any further witnesses?
[01:05:06.670 --> 01:05:07.670]  A moment, please.
[01:05:08.510 --> 01:05:08.950]  Certainly.
[01:05:18.900 --> 01:05:21.900]  Sir, you will maintain proper decorum in my courtroom.
[01:05:27.440 --> 01:05:30.060]  We'd like to call Jack Valenti, please, if possible.
[01:05:32.580 --> 01:05:33.560]  For what purpose?
[01:05:33.560 --> 01:05:34.360]  I object, Your Honor.
[01:05:34.820 --> 01:05:35.900]  Witness is already called.
[01:05:36.180 --> 01:05:37.000]  Sir, for what purpose?
[01:05:38.860 --> 01:05:45.520]  The case is that our defendant, our client, has caused harm to the MPAA.
[01:05:45.680 --> 01:05:49.140]  We'd like to ask Mr. Valenti some questions.
[01:05:49.200 --> 01:05:49.860]  Objection, Your Honor.
[01:05:50.020 --> 01:05:53.300]  We're not trying to prove that he's harmed the MPAA.
[01:05:55.200 --> 01:06:04.740]  You had your opportunity to question Mr. Valenti when he was on the stand earlier, and you did not, therefore I'm not going to allow you to recall this witness.
[01:06:11.340 --> 01:06:12.180]  But I do.
[01:06:15.420 --> 01:06:16.620]  The defense rests.
[01:06:18.580 --> 01:06:21.460]  Before we move into your closing argument, does the defense have any motions?
[01:06:24.400 --> 01:06:30.900]  Well, we would move to have the case thrown out on the grounds that our client hasn't done anything illegal.
[01:06:36.520 --> 01:06:37.240]  Plaintiff?
[01:06:40.400 --> 01:06:41.640]  Yes, Your Honor.
[01:06:43.380 --> 01:06:44.820]  Motion for...
[01:06:44.820 --> 01:06:45.320]  No.
[01:06:45.460 --> 01:06:47.100]  First, your response to their motion.
[01:06:48.280 --> 01:06:52.500]  My response to that, their client has not done anything illegal?
[01:06:54.140 --> 01:06:55.840]  Yeah, I'd like to respond to that.
[01:06:56.440 --> 01:06:58.020]  He has injured us.
[01:06:58.180 --> 01:07:03.600]  He's taken things that circumvent our technology that we've got, we created.
[01:07:03.800 --> 01:07:04.960]  It's ours, ours, ours.
[01:07:05.280 --> 01:07:11.860]  Actually, I will deny a motion for a directed verdict.
[01:07:12.220 --> 01:07:17.080]  For the record, I would like to note that the plaintiff, just a moment ago, said that no harm had actually...
[01:07:17.080 --> 01:07:21.340]  that the case wasn't about any harm having been done, and now has said an injury was done.
[01:07:21.540 --> 01:07:21.640]  I was saying...
[01:07:21.640 --> 01:07:23.420]  Motion for a directed verdict is denied.
[01:07:23.880 --> 01:07:26.140]  Do the plaintiffs have any motions they would like to make?
[01:07:26.720 --> 01:07:28.040]  Um, no, Your Honor.
[01:07:29.540 --> 01:07:30.260]  Very well.
[01:07:30.400 --> 01:07:32.020]  We do have one motion.
[01:07:32.240 --> 01:07:33.860]  One last motion, Your Honor.
[01:07:34.480 --> 01:07:35.200]  Let's hear it.
[01:07:35.360 --> 01:07:50.380]  And that is to enter into the record testimony, rather evidence, establishing that, as a matter of fact, no harm has been done to DVD sales since the inception of DeCSS.
[01:07:50.680 --> 01:07:53.080]  Sales have only gone up at an accelerating rate.
[01:07:53.580 --> 01:07:54.040]  Objection, Your Honor.
[01:07:54.040 --> 01:07:55.840]  The MPAA is only making more and more money on this.
[01:07:56.300 --> 01:07:56.780]  Objection, Your Honor.
[01:07:56.900 --> 01:07:59.700]  Defendants have not called any witnesses to interpretate this chart.
[01:07:59.860 --> 01:08:09.900]  And I believe under FRE 1007, I believe you usually have to have a witness, some sort of layperson, to interpret the results.
[01:08:11.000 --> 01:08:12.380]  Mr. Cohen, you were...
[01:08:12.380 --> 01:08:15.760]  Your Honor, the jury wishes to make a motion to relieve its louder at the moment.
[01:08:18.960 --> 01:08:19.840]  In just...
[01:08:20.480 --> 01:08:21.720]  In two minutes, about two minutes.
[01:08:23.000 --> 01:08:31.700]  Mr. Cohen, are you referring to the evidence which you were attempting to move earlier, which was denied at that time for lack of proper foundation?
[01:08:32.540 --> 01:08:36.260]  Your Honor, we would like to change the foundation of that evidence.
[01:08:39.800 --> 01:08:40.500]  Yes or no?
[01:08:40.660 --> 01:08:42.680]  Is that the evidence to which you're referring now?
[01:08:42.780 --> 01:08:43.600]  Yes, that is the evidence.
[01:08:43.620 --> 01:08:44.900]  Then your motion is denied.
[01:08:45.160 --> 01:08:50.480]  There was no further evidence brought out to the foundation of that chart.
[01:08:50.580 --> 01:08:52.300]  And the jury may not consider it in their deliberations.
[01:08:53.100 --> 01:08:57.400]  You have rested your case, and you have no opportunities to call any further witnesses.
[01:09:02.000 --> 01:09:03.460]  I'll cover your back.
[01:09:04.540 --> 01:09:06.500]  Are there any further motions by the defense?
[01:09:07.920 --> 01:09:08.740]  No, Your Honor.
[01:09:08.980 --> 01:09:09.500]  Plaintiff?
[01:09:10.140 --> 01:09:10.660]  No.
[01:09:11.320 --> 01:09:12.080]  Thank you, Your Honor.
[01:09:12.980 --> 01:09:16.320]  Defense, we will hear your closing arguments at this time.
[01:09:27.580 --> 01:09:30.000]  Well, we've heard some interesting things up here.
[01:09:31.960 --> 01:09:36.020]  Jurors, I must tell you that I envy your task.
[01:09:36.240 --> 01:09:38.220]  You'll be going to the bathroom before you know it.
[01:09:40.640 --> 01:09:50.120]  The case, it seems to me, in the end as you go into deliberations, is about a presumption of innocence versus a presumption of guilt.
[01:09:51.140 --> 01:09:53.780]  Who is really being subversive here?
[01:09:54.100 --> 01:09:56.340]  On the one hand, we have Eric Corley, a publisher.
[01:09:57.140 --> 01:10:07.980]  All that they can muster is that someone may visit 2600's website, may use it to find DeCSS, and then they may use that to do something illegal.
[01:10:08.660 --> 01:10:11.940]  This is, to me, tantamount to thought crime.
[01:10:11.940 --> 01:10:20.880]  You think a certain way, therefore you're inevitably going to do something illegal, so before you do something illegal, we'll just slap the irons on you.
[01:10:21.680 --> 01:10:33.420]  And this is the United States of America, where Mr. Corley enjoys the First Amendment right to publish anything that he decides to publish, regardless of how controversial it is.
[01:10:33.580 --> 01:10:38.660]  Regardless of anything that certainly the plaintiff has raised.
[01:10:38.660 --> 01:10:39.420]  Objection, Your Honor.
[01:10:39.760 --> 01:10:44.200]  Defense has not entered anything regarding First Amendment into evidence.
[01:10:44.500 --> 01:10:46.760]  What relevance does free speech have in all this?
[01:10:47.180 --> 01:10:47.720]  Excuse me?
[01:10:48.200 --> 01:10:48.420]  Hello?
[01:10:49.560 --> 01:10:51.520]  The objection is sustained.
[01:10:51.520 --> 01:10:52.940]  This is a civil case.
[01:10:53.060 --> 01:10:54.880]  It does not involve the First Amendment.
[01:10:58.260 --> 01:11:02.800]  Ladies and gentlemen, please control yourself, or the bailiff will control you.
[01:11:09.890 --> 01:11:12.430]  Our client is a publisher.
[01:11:12.790 --> 01:11:20.590]  I think that we've established that, and I won't remind you of the rights that publishers enjoy in this country.
[01:11:20.970 --> 01:11:21.730]  Objection, Your Honor.
[01:11:22.290 --> 01:11:25.130]  They don't know the rights publishers enjoy in this country.
[01:11:25.290 --> 01:11:28.150]  They are not instructed on the specifics of law until you do so, correct?
[01:11:28.290 --> 01:11:29.670]  Objection is overruled.
[01:11:31.110 --> 01:11:31.630]  Objection, Your Honor.
[01:11:31.630 --> 01:11:34.050]  On the other hand, we have the MPAA.
[01:11:34.790 --> 01:11:38.090]  This goes to the question of exactly who is being subversive here.
[01:11:38.250 --> 01:11:44.010]  The MPAA makes one million dollars on every license that they give to manufacturers of DVD players.
[01:11:44.010 --> 01:11:57.690]  They have a vested interest in making sure that the open source community does not develop a player that can function on Linux boxes precisely because of this monopoly that they enjoy.
[01:11:58.990 --> 01:12:01.930]  I would remind the... Sir, there's an objection.
[01:12:03.910 --> 01:12:11.730]  There's nothing in evidence about us enjoying a monopoly or having a vested interest in the open source community or anything else.
[01:12:11.730 --> 01:12:12.870]  That's correct.
[01:12:13.030 --> 01:12:14.370]  The objection is sustained.
[01:12:14.630 --> 01:12:18.030]  Please do not speak as to facts which are not in evidence in this case.
[01:12:19.570 --> 01:12:30.950]  Well, I will... I will close my remarks, not the defense's remarks, by saying that the MPAA has...
[01:12:30.950 --> 01:12:31.630]  That really sucks.
[01:12:34.210 --> 01:12:36.050]  Sir, please control yourself.
[01:12:36.690 --> 01:12:39.610]  Has brought Mr. Goldstein to...
[01:12:39.610 --> 01:12:40.310]  He's a pirate!
[01:12:41.190 --> 01:12:42.670]  Jackson, Your Honor...
[01:12:42.670 --> 01:12:44.530]  Mr. Valenti...
[01:12:44.530 --> 01:12:45.130]  To...
[01:12:45.130 --> 01:12:45.250]  To...
[01:12:45.250 --> 01:12:45.630]  To trial for...
[01:12:46.100 --> 01:12:47.050]  To trial for...
[01:12:47.050 --> 01:12:48.550]  For no action...
[01:12:48.550 --> 01:12:49.070]  For no...
[01:12:49.070 --> 01:12:53.010]  For no discernible action that has caused them any discernible harm.
[01:12:53.710 --> 01:12:54.750]  And, uh...
[01:12:54.750 --> 01:12:56.950]  And with that remark, I, uh...
[01:12:56.950 --> 01:12:57.450]  I, uh...
[01:12:57.450 --> 01:12:57.670]  I hand...
[01:12:58.310 --> 01:12:59.210]  The, uh...
[01:12:59.210 --> 01:13:01.350]  Remarks over to...
[01:13:02.800 --> 01:13:11.400]  Co-Counsel would like to remark to the jury just to remember some of the things that have actually been able to get into evidence this evening.
[01:13:11.980 --> 01:13:14.040]  And that is that, uh...
[01:13:14.040 --> 01:13:22.080]  DeCSS was a utility, uh... that did not facilitate in any way the pirating of a DVD.
[01:13:23.160 --> 01:13:32.360]  And that you have to remember when you make your decisions that, can something that doesn't facilitate pirating of a DVD harm the MPAA?
[01:13:33.200 --> 01:13:34.720]  And that's what we'd like to close with.
[01:13:35.160 --> 01:13:35.840]  Thank you very much.
[01:13:37.920 --> 01:13:39.320]  Plaintiffs closing arguments.
[01:13:39.820 --> 01:13:40.260]  Uh...
[01:13:40.260 --> 01:13:40.700]  Yes, Your Honor.
[01:13:40.980 --> 01:13:42.060]  The all the plaintiffs!
[01:13:42.980 --> 01:13:43.820]  That's not the point.
[01:13:44.100 --> 01:13:44.440]  Sir?
[01:13:57.920 --> 01:13:58.320]  There you go.
[01:13:58.600 --> 01:13:59.880]  Did you want a piece of him?
[01:14:00.080 --> 01:14:00.520]  Is that it?
[01:14:01.500 --> 01:14:01.940]  Okay.
[01:14:02.420 --> 01:14:02.860]  Alrighty.
[01:14:03.620 --> 01:14:04.060]  Alrighty.
[01:14:05.440 --> 01:14:05.880]  So...
[01:14:05.880 --> 01:14:06.400]  Okay.
[01:14:06.520 --> 01:14:07.300]  Members of the jury.
[01:14:07.600 --> 01:14:11.080]  What I'm trying to tell you is that, um...
[01:14:11.080 --> 01:14:12.840]  Mr. Goldstein is one slick fellow.
[01:14:12.840 --> 01:14:15.540]  He thinks that he can take this...
[01:14:15.540 --> 01:14:18.380]  This crap that he's trying to offer.
[01:14:18.660 --> 01:14:20.520]  It's circumvented technology.
[01:14:21.260 --> 01:14:22.400]  He broke the law...
[01:14:22.400 --> 01:14:22.960]  Objection, Your Honor.
[01:14:23.520 --> 01:14:24.020]  Grounds.
[01:14:24.360 --> 01:14:24.900]  Uh...
[01:14:24.900 --> 01:14:26.080]  The remark slap...
[01:14:26.360 --> 01:14:26.460]  Uh...
[01:14:26.460 --> 01:14:27.680]  Crap is slanderous.
[01:14:28.720 --> 01:14:30.040]  Objection overruled.
[01:14:35.000 --> 01:14:35.760]  Ladies...
[01:14:36.720 --> 01:14:39.960]  Ladies and gentlemen, I will clear this courtroom.
[01:14:53.370 --> 01:14:55.970]  Ladies and gentlemen, do not test me.
[01:14:57.350 --> 01:14:57.910]  Plaint...
[01:14:57.910 --> 01:14:58.750]  Accounts for the plaintiff.
[01:14:58.870 --> 01:14:59.370]  Please continue.
[01:14:59.990 --> 01:15:00.110]  Uh...
[01:15:00.110 --> 01:15:00.730]  Full choice.
[01:15:00.890 --> 01:15:01.330]  Don't worry.
[01:15:02.590 --> 01:15:03.150]  Uh...
[01:15:03.150 --> 01:15:03.970]  Yes, members of the jury.
[01:15:04.290 --> 01:15:04.850]  So...
[01:15:05.370 --> 01:15:14.830]  Mr. Goldstein is masking the fact that he's offering to the public circumvented technology and masking it under the guise of journalism and free speech.
[01:15:15.770 --> 01:15:18.270]  Which is completely untrue.
[01:15:18.270 --> 01:15:19.770]  We have a copyright.
[01:15:22.250 --> 01:15:22.910]  Sir.
[01:15:25.270 --> 01:15:28.270]  I will have you removed from the courtroom.
[01:15:30.490 --> 01:15:31.270]  All right.
[01:15:31.610 --> 01:15:32.270]  And...
[01:15:32.270 --> 01:15:36.230]  I also wanted to remind you that this case is not about pirating.
[01:15:36.710 --> 01:15:37.770]  It is...
[01:15:37.770 --> 01:15:40.110]  It has nothing to do with pirating.
[01:15:40.330 --> 01:15:50.190]  It has to do with protecting our own economic interests and to not allow others to profit or just to simply use unauthorized work.
[01:15:50.330 --> 01:15:52.290]  Had Mr. Johansen asked permission...
[01:15:52.950 --> 01:15:53.190]  Objection.
[01:15:53.950 --> 01:15:54.510]  Grounds.
[01:15:54.630 --> 01:16:01.930]  It has been established by Mr. Johansen's testimony that he was not profiting in any way from the DeCSS source code.
[01:16:01.990 --> 01:16:03.410]  I was not referring to Mr. Johansen.
[01:16:03.470 --> 01:16:04.790]  I was referring to General.
[01:16:05.530 --> 01:16:11.910]  Your Honor, it has been established in evidence that it is free and nobody makes any money at all from the DeCSS source.
[01:16:11.950 --> 01:16:12.310]  Oh, my God.
[01:16:12.430 --> 01:16:13.990]  I was still referring to copyright.
[01:16:14.290 --> 01:16:14.870]  Objection.
[01:16:15.390 --> 01:16:21.870]  If the objection is overruled, the jury will use their memory of the testimony during their deliberations.
[01:16:22.710 --> 01:16:23.010]  Okay.
[01:16:23.010 --> 01:16:29.590]  I will remind the jury that the remarks by both plaintiff and defense counsel are not evidence.
[01:16:29.810 --> 01:16:35.010]  You will use your recollection of the testimony of the witnesses in this case when you are deliberating in the jury room.
[01:16:35.630 --> 01:16:36.590]  Please continue.
[01:16:39.890 --> 01:16:50.090]  So this case has less to do with pirating and everything to do with copyright and protection of your work.
[01:16:50.670 --> 01:16:57.470]  If you created something and you saw it hanging in another museum the other day and they didn't tell you about it, don't you want to know these things?
[01:16:57.710 --> 01:17:03.670]  Don't you want to know if somebody else used your college thesis or your high school term paper?
[01:17:04.110 --> 01:17:06.390]  Don't you want to know if somebody is using these things?
[01:17:08.010 --> 01:17:11.170]  I think Mr. Valenti here and the rest of the MPAA...
[01:17:11.910 --> 01:17:13.130]  Fuck the MPAA!
[01:17:13.530 --> 01:17:15.970]  Bailiff, place that man in handcuffs.
[01:17:34.590 --> 01:17:36.010]  Don't worry, you'll get him next time.
[01:17:41.110 --> 01:17:41.890]  Right there.
[01:17:42.130 --> 01:17:42.830]  Fourth row.
[01:17:43.130 --> 01:17:43.950]  Second from the right.
[01:17:50.200 --> 01:17:50.980]  Right there.
[01:17:51.240 --> 01:17:52.740]  Bailiff, place that man in handcuffs.
[01:17:52.780 --> 01:17:53.180]  Not him.
[01:17:53.500 --> 01:17:54.900]  The man sitting to his right.
[01:17:58.600 --> 01:17:59.740]  That man right there.
[01:17:59.880 --> 01:18:00.880]  Place him in handcuffs.
[01:18:01.020 --> 01:18:02.140]  Remove him from this court.
[01:18:14.090 --> 01:18:16.430]  Bailiff, make sure you gag him when he is outside.
[01:18:20.120 --> 01:18:21.640]  Please continue.
[01:18:26.360 --> 01:18:28.040]  Please continue, counsel.
[01:18:28.260 --> 01:18:28.500]  Okay.
[01:18:35.140 --> 01:18:35.900]  Alrighty.
[01:18:39.690 --> 01:18:40.450]  Counsel...
[01:18:42.750 --> 01:18:44.550]  Your Honor, I believe that...
[01:18:44.550 --> 01:18:51.670]  Mr. Goldstein, you will remain seated for the duration of this trial or you will be restrained.
[01:18:52.790 --> 01:18:53.810]  We apologize, Your Honor.
[01:18:53.810 --> 01:18:54.510]  Counsel, please continue.
[01:18:54.690 --> 01:18:55.030]  You're closing.
[01:18:55.030 --> 01:18:57.170]  Your Honor, I believe the gallery is...
[01:18:59.030 --> 01:19:02.050]  I believe the jury and the gallery are trying to fuck with me.
[01:19:02.110 --> 01:19:02.710]  I'm not pleased.
[01:19:03.130 --> 01:19:03.530]  Oh!
[01:19:04.530 --> 01:19:04.930]  Anyway.
[01:19:06.050 --> 01:19:06.730]  So...
[01:19:07.430 --> 01:19:10.810]  This is about protecting our economic interests.
[01:19:11.150 --> 01:19:12.110]  And aren't those important?
[01:19:12.910 --> 01:19:13.250]  Oh!
[01:19:14.670 --> 01:19:15.870]  They're important to you.
[01:19:16.050 --> 01:19:20.270]  Why can't they be important to a big mega corporation that owns everything?
[01:19:27.610 --> 01:19:28.290]  So...
[01:19:28.290 --> 01:19:35.670]  In summation, you as a jury must find that it's more likely than not.
[01:19:35.890 --> 01:19:37.850]  Just 51% true.
[01:19:38.130 --> 01:19:38.790]  That's it.
[01:19:39.190 --> 01:19:57.110]  You need to find that yes, Mr. Goldstein intended to offer this circumvented technology to the public and regardless of whether he attained or we attained or anyone attained a profit from it.
[01:19:57.270 --> 01:19:59.950]  This was illegal under the federal statute.
[01:20:01.070 --> 01:20:01.810]  Thank you.
[01:20:08.800 --> 01:20:10.140]  Hey, ladies and gentlemen.
[01:20:10.700 --> 01:20:16.140]  We're going to have, in the interest of judicial economy, brief charges for the jury.
[01:20:16.320 --> 01:20:26.600]  I will first remind you of what I told you earlier in this case, that you were to keep an open mind during the presentation of this case and you still must keep an open mind until you begin your deliberations.
[01:20:26.940 --> 01:20:30.000]  You may only consider items which were entered into evidence.
[01:20:30.000 --> 01:20:34.560]  That is, items which were moved into evidence or testimony presented by the witnesses.
[01:20:34.920 --> 01:20:43.800]  If there was a question asked by one of the attorneys which there was an objection to and that objection was sustained, you are not to consider any partial answer.
[01:20:43.800 --> 01:20:46.580]  You are not to consider the questions by the attorneys.
[01:20:46.580 --> 01:20:51.940]  You may only consider the questions made by the attorneys as they pertain to the answers which were given.
[01:20:52.020 --> 01:20:59.840]  If an answer was given yes and there was no objection sustained, you may consider the attorney's question to make sense of the answer.
[01:21:00.280 --> 01:21:04.180]  You may not consider any items which are not in evidence in this case.
[01:21:04.180 --> 01:21:06.660]  You will be violating your oath as jurors.
[01:21:07.200 --> 01:21:09.200]  Now, this is not a criminal case.
[01:21:09.360 --> 01:21:10.420]  This is a civil case.
[01:21:10.620 --> 01:21:13.760]  You may have heard the term beyond a reasonable doubt.
[01:21:13.980 --> 01:21:17.920]  That is a term which is in criminal cases.
[01:21:18.500 --> 01:21:23.440]  This, as a civil case, is governed by the preponderance of the evidence.
[01:21:23.440 --> 01:21:27.580]  That is that you are to consider all of the evidence which has been given in this case.
[01:21:27.840 --> 01:21:41.020]  Now, you are to determine whether by the credibility of the witnesses and their demeanor, the answers they gave, whether you determine that evidence to be facts in this case.
[01:21:41.200 --> 01:22:08.160]  And taking the totality of the evidence and the facts as you determine them to be, you are to use... imagine as if there was a scale and there was evidence from both sides 51% is generally given to let the jury figure out whether the defendant is liable or not liable.
[01:22:08.720 --> 01:22:16.960]  If the scale tips slightly in favor of the plaintiff, then you must find the defendant liable in this case.
[01:22:17.160 --> 01:22:23.580]  On the other hand, if the scale tips slightly in favor of the defendant, then you must find him not liable.
[01:22:23.840 --> 01:22:27.200]  Now, I am going to let you begin your deliberations.
[01:22:27.660 --> 01:22:36.340]  I would note that in the interest of judicial economy and the schedule of this court, we will only allow 15 minutes of deliberations tonight.
[01:22:36.800 --> 01:22:50.220]  Now, while I am not trying to pressure the jury in any way, if you do not reach a decision, then you will be required to return to court at 8.30 tomorrow morning, and you will be sequestered until you have reached a decision.
[01:22:50.220 --> 01:22:53.080]  And as I said, I am not trying to pressure the jury.
[01:22:53.320 --> 01:23:06.560]  However, after 15 minutes, we will be adjourning this court until 8.30 in the morning, and there will not be any coffee or food tomorrow until you reach a decision.
[01:23:06.740 --> 01:23:12.600]  Now, I would note that you are not required to reach a unanimous decision, as this is a civil case.
[01:23:12.600 --> 01:23:16.040]  A decision of 5 to 1 is sufficient.
[01:23:16.940 --> 01:23:23.940]  Now, at this time, bail, if I will ask you to please take the jury into the jury deliberation room.
[01:23:33.200 --> 01:23:36.060]  That would be out underneath the exit sign.
[01:23:36.860 --> 01:23:39.460]  The court is adjourned for 15 minutes.
[01:23:39.460 --> 01:23:41.880]  It is now 10.04.
[01:23:41.880 --> 01:23:47.260]  We will resume at 10.19 for an adjournment or for a decision.
[01:24:20.200 --> 01:24:21.260]  No, it's...
[01:24:41.430 --> 01:24:44.470]  Why the hell didn't you equate code to speech?
[01:24:46.870 --> 01:24:49.190]  That would have been good.
[01:24:49.290 --> 01:24:51.550]  Then you got the First Amendment's elephants.
[01:24:53.710 --> 01:24:54.410]  Yes.
[01:24:59.390 --> 01:25:01.110]  But we didn't...
[01:25:06.770 --> 01:25:10.090]  Was it brought in as evidence?
[01:25:11.710 --> 01:25:12.730]  That's the problem.
[01:25:15.310 --> 01:25:15.930]  Sorry?
[01:25:16.590 --> 01:25:18.010]  Oh, I understand.
[01:25:18.010 --> 01:25:19.990]  I'm surprised by...
[01:25:20.530 --> 01:25:23.010]  Emmanuel didn't contact them, I guess, lost to you.
[01:25:23.010 --> 01:25:23.650]  We have a sex partner.
[01:25:25.010 --> 01:25:26.910]  We have a sex partner.
[01:25:27.290 --> 01:25:27.430]  We have a sex partner.
[01:25:27.610 --> 01:25:42.110]  We have a sex partner.
[01:25:42.510 --> 01:25:43.010]  And...
[01:25:43.010 --> 01:25:44.150]  You'll...
[01:25:44.150 --> 01:25:44.790]  You'll...
[01:25:44.790 --> 01:25:45.570]  You'll...
[01:25:45.570 --> 01:25:46.610]  Because of...
[01:25:46.610 --> 01:25:49.050]  The bias, but...
[01:25:49.050 --> 01:25:49.850]  Is the evidence going on?
[01:25:50.030 --> 01:25:50.150]  No.
[01:25:50.470 --> 01:25:50.590]  No.
[01:26:13.790 --> 01:26:14.830]  I'm just...
[01:26:16.550 --> 01:26:17.150]  We're not...
[01:26:17.150 --> 01:26:18.470]  Oh, you didn't make that later...
[01:26:18.470 --> 01:26:19.830]  They do have...
[01:26:19.830 --> 01:26:21.790]  You know, that's bad at the forefront.
[01:26:22.470 --> 01:26:22.650]  I know.
[01:26:22.650 --> 01:26:23.310]  Final remarks?
[01:26:25.930 --> 01:26:29.630]  Well, she's reminded about it on the final remarks, but...
[01:26:29.630 --> 01:26:30.670]  I think that's important.
[01:26:31.690 --> 01:26:36.850]  But you're going to be creating a secret to speech with various...
[01:26:38.100 --> 01:26:38.820]  Oh, yes.
[01:28:50.820 --> 01:28:52.500]  Is that actually closer?
[01:28:52.900 --> 01:28:53.240]  No.
[01:28:53.600 --> 01:28:54.180]  No.
[01:29:13.190 --> 01:29:13.770]  No.
[01:29:14.050 --> 01:29:14.230]  No.
[01:29:14.570 --> 01:29:14.790]  No.
[01:29:14.790 --> 01:29:15.270]  No.
[01:29:51.690 --> 01:29:52.270]  No.
[01:29:53.630 --> 01:29:53.810]  No.
[01:29:53.990 --> 01:29:54.530]  No.
[01:29:55.330 --> 01:29:55.910]  No.
[01:29:55.910 --> 01:29:56.130]  I'm sorry.
[01:29:57.250 --> 01:29:57.610]  I'm sorry.
[01:30:39.130 --> 01:30:40.290]  I'm sorry.
[01:30:40.630 --> 01:30:41.470]  I'm sorry.
[01:30:41.470 --> 01:30:42.210]  I'm sorry.
[01:30:42.210 --> 01:30:42.970]  But they took it from the phone.
[01:30:44.890 --> 01:30:46.110]  Where did they get more?
[01:30:52.070 --> 01:30:53.510]  And then this guy.
[01:31:00.160 --> 01:31:01.760]  The guy who was working with
[01:31:26.070 --> 01:31:27.310]  me...
[01:31:27.310 --> 01:31:30.520]  I've got my phone calls.
[01:31:31.390 --> 01:31:32.070]  I can't tell.
[01:31:34.050 --> 01:31:35.210]  But, um...
[01:31:35.210 --> 01:31:36.870]  I'm just going to get to the end.
[01:31:39.190 --> 01:31:40.550]  I think that's good.
[01:31:40.990 --> 01:31:41.990]  How are you on the next one?
[01:31:42.890 --> 01:31:44.810]  I'm not because I'm okay.
[01:31:45.610 --> 01:31:46.450]  What's happening?
[01:32:08.170 --> 01:32:08.730]  Alex?
[01:32:10.710 --> 01:32:11.270]  Alex?
[01:32:11.410 --> 01:32:11.750]  Alex?
[01:32:11.930 --> 01:32:12.590]  Alex and Alex are here.
[01:32:13.270 --> 01:32:14.850]  No, Alex won't be here.
[01:32:16.210 --> 01:32:17.470]  You probably won't be here.
[01:32:18.190 --> 01:32:19.150]  You won't be here.
[01:32:19.550 --> 01:32:20.050]  You won't be here.
[01:33:39.430 --> 01:33:40.750]  Okay, counsels.
[01:33:41.870 --> 01:33:45.930]  Counsel, I understand the jury has reached the verdict in this case.
[01:33:46.450 --> 01:33:48.250]  Please, everyone, have a seat.
[01:33:53.570 --> 01:33:58.750]  Once the plaintiff's counsel arrives, I will have the bailiff bring the jury in.
[01:33:59.390 --> 01:34:02.290]  Does anyone see counsel for the plaintiff?
[01:34:07.350 --> 01:34:08.850]  Counsel for the plaintiff?
[01:34:59.580 --> 01:35:01.260]  Miss trial, they lose.
[01:35:07.360 --> 01:35:09.860]  We'll give counsel for the plaintiff a few more minutes.
[01:35:10.420 --> 01:35:16.740]  It is four minutes before 1019 when I said that the trial would resume.
[01:35:21.230 --> 01:35:24.670]  If anyone sees counsel for the plaintiff, please tell her to come in.
[01:35:57.250 --> 01:36:05.230]  Okay, out of trial mode for a minute, I understand there's someone in the audience who wanted to make a statement about the demonstration that's going to be taking place on Monday.
[01:36:05.230 --> 01:36:05.950]  Come on.
[01:36:12.050 --> 01:36:12.650]  Hi.
[01:36:13.030 --> 01:36:14.210]  I'm Donahue.
[01:36:14.430 --> 01:36:16.770]  I'm from NYLA, the New York Linux users group.
[01:36:16.930 --> 01:36:18.450]  We're unaffiliated with 2600.
[01:36:18.650 --> 01:36:20.610]  And we are staging a protest.
[01:36:20.630 --> 01:36:27.690]  We have a permit outside of the real trial on Monday at 10 o'clock on 500 Pearl Street.
[01:36:29.230 --> 01:36:32.190]  You may have caught one of these flyers or press releases on the way out.
[01:36:32.630 --> 01:36:33.750]  Please catch one if you can.
[01:36:34.570 --> 01:36:40.070]  I've got them and there will probably be people at the door, two or three of us, handing them out.
[01:36:40.230 --> 01:36:40.490]  Thanks.
[01:36:58.960 --> 01:37:01.700]  Sir, do not approach the bench.
[01:37:01.960 --> 01:37:02.900]  Bailiff, please...
[01:37:02.900 --> 01:37:04.220]  Agree, she loved the hotel.
[01:37:04.400 --> 01:37:05.620]  She said to give that to you.
[01:37:17.130 --> 01:37:18.510]  Okay, back on the record.
[01:37:18.830 --> 01:37:22.430]  I thought I had permission to go outside and throw a temper tantrum beforehand.
[01:37:22.710 --> 01:37:23.150]  That's fine.
[01:37:23.970 --> 01:37:27.050]  For the record, we have received a note from the jury.
[01:37:27.250 --> 01:37:28.610]  They have reached a verdict.
[01:37:29.450 --> 01:37:31.550]  Bailiff, will you please bring the jury back in?
[01:38:05.340 --> 01:38:08.820]  Please be seated in the jury box or you will be restrained.
[01:38:12.440 --> 01:38:14.160]  I don't think that's his threat.
[01:38:14.260 --> 01:38:17.960]  I see that all jurors are present.
[01:38:18.220 --> 01:38:19.320]  It is now 1019.
[01:38:19.840 --> 01:38:21.940]  Will the foreperson for the jury please rise?
[01:38:24.400 --> 01:38:28.280]  Have you reached a verdict in this case which is either unanimous or 5 to 1?
[01:38:39.890 --> 01:38:45.490]  In the case before this Court of Motion Picture Association of America vs.
[01:38:45.690 --> 01:38:48.990]  Emmanuel Goldstein in 2600 Magazine, how do you find...
[01:38:51.890 --> 01:38:55.470]  Do you find for the plaintiff or do you find for the defendant?
[01:38:56.590 --> 01:38:59.630]  We find Emanuel Goldstein not liable.
[01:39:05.120 --> 01:39:06.240]  5 to 1.
[01:39:08.500 --> 01:39:09.240]  I'll appeal.
[01:39:09.440 --> 01:39:10.560]  I'll take it to the Supreme Court.
[01:39:10.560 --> 01:39:11.220]  Your Honor.
[01:39:11.240 --> 01:39:12.780]  It is so noted.
[01:39:12.940 --> 01:39:13.240]  Your Honor.
[01:39:13.440 --> 01:39:14.460]  The jury has found 5 to 1.
[01:39:14.740 --> 01:39:15.620]  Excuse me, Your Honor.
[01:39:15.940 --> 01:39:17.200]  I wish the jury to be polled.
[01:39:19.120 --> 01:39:19.520]  Sir.
[01:39:19.520 --> 01:39:20.580]  A really long poll.
[01:39:20.900 --> 01:39:21.200]  Sir.
[01:39:21.200 --> 01:39:23.100]  I wanted to...
[01:39:23.100 --> 01:39:25.420]  May I poll the jury?
[01:39:26.080 --> 01:39:26.840]  Yes, you may.
[01:39:28.180 --> 01:39:29.980]  The court will poll the jury.
[01:39:30.380 --> 01:39:38.160]  What that means is that each juror will be asked what their verdict was in this case or whether they agree with the verdict in this case that it was 5 to 1.
[01:39:38.720 --> 01:39:40.980]  Sir, do you agree with the verdict in this case?
[01:39:41.240 --> 01:39:41.580]  Yes.
[01:39:41.580 --> 01:39:47.800]  That is, did you agree that there was 5 to 1 finding that the defendant was not liable?
[01:39:48.480 --> 01:39:48.760]  Yep.
[01:39:49.580 --> 01:39:50.320]  Jury number 2.
[01:39:50.540 --> 01:39:52.580]  Your Honor, can you please ask the juror to stand up?
[01:39:55.120 --> 01:39:55.680]  Very well.
[01:39:55.980 --> 01:39:57.460]  Please stand up before you give your answer.
[01:39:57.560 --> 01:39:59.680]  Do you agree that that was the finding of the jury in this case?
[01:39:59.840 --> 01:40:00.600]  Yeah, that was the finding.
[01:40:01.880 --> 01:40:02.780]  Jury number 3.
[01:40:03.340 --> 01:40:05.680]  Do you agree that this is the finding of the jury in this case?
[01:40:05.840 --> 01:40:06.680]  Yes or no?
[01:40:06.680 --> 01:40:06.720]  No.
[01:40:07.140 --> 01:40:10.280]  Actually, I felt that, well... Sir.
[01:40:11.780 --> 01:40:16.920]  Well, I really kind of voted for her to get the chair, but... Yes or no.
[01:40:17.220 --> 01:40:17.620]  Yes.
[01:40:18.240 --> 01:40:19.100]  Juror number four.
[01:40:20.680 --> 01:40:21.240]  Yes.
[01:40:21.820 --> 01:40:22.800]  Juror number five.
[01:40:23.340 --> 01:40:23.900]  Yes.
[01:40:24.380 --> 01:40:25.160]  And juror number six.
[01:40:26.720 --> 01:40:27.280]  Yeah.
[01:40:27.840 --> 01:40:29.200]  The jury has been polled.
[01:40:29.680 --> 01:40:30.940]  Plaintiffs, do you have any motions?
[01:40:31.460 --> 01:40:33.920]  I guess we will file a motion for appeal.
[01:40:34.480 --> 01:40:37.320]  Do you have a motion at this time for a judgment, not on the verdict?
[01:40:38.320 --> 01:40:38.720]  Yes.
[01:40:38.900 --> 01:40:42.220]  Your Honor, I do have a motion for Jan Ovi.
[01:40:42.600 --> 01:40:42.740]  Yes.
[01:40:43.080 --> 01:40:43.740]  On what grounds?
[01:40:44.460 --> 01:40:53.020]  On the grounds that we have proved our case and that the jury made a clear error in their findings of fact.
[01:40:54.460 --> 01:40:59.580]  Counsel of the defense, would you like to be heard on the plaintiff's motion for a judgment, not on the verdict?
[01:41:01.020 --> 01:41:10.880]  Your Honor, we firmly believe that the facts of this case clearly show that Emmanuel Goldstein is not liable for any damages to the MPAA.
[01:41:11.140 --> 01:41:22.340]  We'd like to say on the record that a judgment, or rather, you overruling the verdict of the jury, would be not in the interest of justice.
[01:41:22.600 --> 01:41:25.240]  They are a jury of our peers, and they've made a decision.
[01:41:25.380 --> 01:41:27.080]  We believe the court should stick to it.
[01:41:27.240 --> 01:41:27.740]  Thank you.
[01:41:29.120 --> 01:41:37.460]  All right, and considering the evidence in this case, the testimony that was presented, I do not believe that there is cause for a judgment not in the verdict.
[01:41:37.660 --> 01:41:40.020]  Therefore, the jury's verdict stands.
[01:41:40.260 --> 01:41:41.220]  They're not my peers.
[01:41:41.620 --> 01:41:42.660]  They're not my peers.
[01:41:42.660 --> 01:41:43.360]  They're not my peers.
[01:41:43.800 --> 01:41:46.520]  Have that man removed from the courtroom, in handcuffs.
[01:41:56.630 --> 01:41:57.710]  Your Honor, I object!
[01:41:58.510 --> 01:42:00.470]  And if he resists, feel free to...
[01:42:01.970 --> 01:42:05.270]  If he resists, feel free to use all necessary force.
[01:42:12.200 --> 01:42:14.700]  Your Honor, may I request a motion to...
[01:42:14.700 --> 01:42:15.420]  No, you may not.
[01:42:17.760 --> 01:42:20.720]  Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to thank you for...
[01:42:20.720 --> 01:42:21.900]  Please be quiet.
[01:42:22.680 --> 01:42:22.900]  Ladies and...
[01:42:22.900 --> 01:42:24.540]  May I be relieved of my client, Your Honor?
[01:42:26.020 --> 01:42:26.600]  Excuse me?
[01:42:26.760 --> 01:42:28.580]  May I be relieved of my client...
[01:42:28.580 --> 01:42:28.600]  No.
[01:42:28.820 --> 01:42:30.260]  ...and appointed to find new counsel for appeal?
[01:42:30.400 --> 01:42:30.660]  No!
[01:42:31.220 --> 01:42:31.900]  That's up to you.
[01:42:31.980 --> 01:42:33.520]  This case is now over.
[01:42:34.120 --> 01:42:37.400]  Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I'd like to thank you for your service to this court.
[01:42:37.960 --> 01:42:40.780]  You are now excused from jury duty.
[01:42:42.040 --> 01:42:46.160]  And you leave with our thanks for your time and effort.
[01:42:47.860 --> 01:42:49.160]  The court is now adjourned.
[01:42:56.510 --> 01:43:00.450]  I just want to say congratulations, by the way, to the attorneys on both sides.
[01:43:00.570 --> 01:43:03.130]  I know they're actually not attorneys in real life.
[01:43:03.210 --> 01:43:05.790]  And I thought they all did an outstanding job.
[01:43:06.010 --> 01:43:09.850]  I spent a lot of time in court, and I think they did very well.
[01:43:09.850 --> 01:43:11.850]  And I see some real attorneys who...
[01:43:17.290 --> 01:43:20.270]  Oh, the spy thing starts at 10.30.