[00:04.820 --> 00:08.660]  How many of you guys have committed changes to a GitHub?
[00:09.840 --> 00:12.920]  How many of you guys have built your own house?
[00:13.800 --> 00:14.460]  Awesome.
[00:19.440 --> 00:22.520]  We're going to talk about building our own house.
[00:23.360 --> 00:28.480]  And sometimes it involves hacks, like converting your Hyundai into a pickup truck.
[00:35.490 --> 00:36.020]  Sorry.
[00:37.120 --> 00:38.800]  Sometimes your slides don't work, too.
[00:41.100 --> 00:49.840]  So three years ago, Luke and I lived in the second story of a duplex in San Francisco and paid way too much money for rent.
[00:52.470 --> 01:04.080]  And I had to work a job I really didn't like all the time and didn't have any extra time or income for art projects or other projects that I was really passionate about.
[01:04.840 --> 01:15.040]  So at the end of our lease, we dropped it and we moved on to this vacant lot and decided that we would start converting shipping containers into tiny houses.
[01:16.720 --> 01:25.640]  We rented a giant forklift and spent the day doing doughnuts in the vacant lot and then eventually moved our shipping containers on.
[01:27.260 --> 01:38.200]  The original idea was that we would build out two model units and show them to people and sell the units ready to go as houses.
[01:38.200 --> 01:46.100]  And what we found was that our friends and kind of a larger community came out of the woodwork and was way more interested in learning how to build their own houses.
[01:46.500 --> 02:01.080]  And so we started developing this community of people who were interested in living off-grid, of who were interested in learning how to build and who were interested in life hack experiments, basically.
[02:02.540 --> 02:04.820]  But we got a notice of violation from the city.
[02:05.120 --> 02:08.560]  They weren't super thrilled about living off-grid and many other things.
[02:09.660 --> 02:12.980]  So in a hurry, we had to pack up and move our shipping container.
[02:17.240 --> 02:19.720]  We did that two times.
[02:19.720 --> 02:23.260]  Now we're pretty adept at moving shipping containers around the Bay Area.
[02:25.720 --> 02:32.540]  The third site we moved to was inside and has given us enough cover to keep the project going for a long time.
[02:32.840 --> 02:38.080]  This is a 20,000 square foot warehouse that we moved the container into.
[02:39.300 --> 02:43.260]  Within the first month, we were at about 80% capacity.
[02:44.560 --> 02:47.440]  Now we're slightly over 80% capacity.
[02:47.440 --> 03:03.900]  We have 18 houses under construction, and it's essentially a tiny house incubator, where people come, they buy their own container, and there's a community that's dedicated to teaching each other how to build and experiment with housing.
[03:04.520 --> 03:07.700]  It's also turned into basically just like a giant playground.
[03:08.060 --> 03:11.700]  That big yellow cord at the end is someone's aerial rig.
[03:12.040 --> 03:13.440]  We have beer on tap.
[03:13.700 --> 03:15.600]  One of our co-tenants is a brewer.
[03:16.560 --> 03:17.620]  Here's my house.
[03:18.000 --> 03:20.760]  It's the second one that I've started to build out.
[03:21.540 --> 03:26.380]  It's really nice playing with small spaces and building your own house in general.
[03:26.620 --> 03:40.040]  You can always experiment with different materials, different layouts, and it's really fun to be able to kind of think through what fits your lifestyle and what fits your desires.
[03:40.660 --> 03:44.780]  Here's my friend's wood miser.
[03:45.280 --> 03:47.860]  He needed help milling up some logs.
[03:48.000 --> 03:53.700]  And so we went out and spent the day helping him take care of all these cleared trees on his land.
[03:54.080 --> 03:58.980]  In exchange, he gave us a bunch of logs, and I built my kitchen counter out of one.
[03:59.140 --> 04:07.740]  And it's really awesome to be able to take something from a raw material on your own all the way through to a finished product or, you know, aspirationally finished.
[04:10.360 --> 04:18.980]  The other thing that's really cool about living in a tiny house incubator is you get to see how other people think about space and what problems they're designing to solve.
[04:20.460 --> 04:24.000]  Here's our friend Sean's house, which is pretty cute.
[04:25.580 --> 04:33.260]  On all of our sites, we try to have raised bed gardens and chickens, although my dog makes chickens hard.
[04:35.820 --> 04:40.400]  We sometimes forget to plant raised bed gardens, but when we do plant them, they provide a lot of food.
[04:40.780 --> 04:47.520]  And our community has been really good about taking it on and helping each other keep the garden going, which is really exciting to see.
[04:47.520 --> 04:49.620]  And here's our security system.
[04:52.200 --> 04:59.240]  The other thing that it's enabled me to do is have enough time to make art and travel.
[05:00.700 --> 05:04.920]  This is Shirley Boondoggle, as in, surely someday I'll finish this installation.
[05:09.590 --> 05:26.450]  So, I'm going to dig into the details, and I would posit that any of you, after like maybe 20 hours before a very hectic week of like learning basic skills that people think are difficult but are really glorified hot glue guns like welding and cutting wood,
[05:26.930 --> 05:31.630]  you too can build a tiny house in less than a week for less than...
[05:31.630 --> 05:35.530]  10K is what, like two and a half months of average rent in New York right now?
[05:35.710 --> 05:36.570]  Two in San Francisco?
[05:38.430 --> 05:40.990]  So, for me, this started with this.
[05:41.470 --> 05:45.270]  This was my house after much fix-up, believe it or not.
[05:45.390 --> 05:46.210]  It still looked like this.
[05:46.330 --> 05:52.870]  I literally had to pay the crackhead who was living there when I bought it to hide the fact that there was a giant gaping hole on the roof.
[05:53.070 --> 06:01.270]  And it was just this huge pain in the ass, literally crawling through poison ivy to fix plumbing while it's leaking on my head under the house.
[06:01.270 --> 06:05.170]  And it made me really think that maybe there are better alternatives.
[06:05.870 --> 06:07.530]  So, I researched stuff like this.
[06:08.310 --> 06:23.610]  After some research and a lot of pretty photos like this, realized that I was not in fact going to move to rural Vermont and apprentice under a master woodworker for 10 years and spend $100,000 to achieve something that would look half as good as this.
[06:23.810 --> 06:26.030]  So, I looked for a faster way.
[06:26.390 --> 06:29.890]  And after some experimentation, this is what we arrived at.
[06:29.890 --> 06:34.430]  This is the one that I moved out of recently into a newer one, which I'll show you later.
[06:35.310 --> 06:40.030]  It is not design porn like this, but it gets the job done.
[06:41.710 --> 06:44.970]  Specifically, it's a TEU, a 20-foot equivalent unit.
[06:45.270 --> 06:50.730]  These have only been around for like 60 years, but the worldwide system of trade runs on them.
[06:50.890 --> 06:52.830]  This is a small container ship, by the way.
[06:52.970 --> 06:59.850]  If any of you are looking for a location to put these, buy one of these container ships for scrap value because the Panama Canal is wider now.
[07:00.170 --> 07:01.570]  So, none of these are worth any money anymore.
[07:01.710 --> 07:05.010]  And you can build giant Bayfront real estate without having the real estate.
[07:08.670 --> 07:11.830]  Yeah, it's literally like you can Google it and you'll find people selling these.
[07:11.950 --> 07:12.830]  It's actually like a big problem.
[07:12.950 --> 07:15.110]  People are abandoning them at sea just to float around.
[07:16.270 --> 07:18.190]  So, TEU, 20-foot equivalent unit.
[07:18.350 --> 07:22.470]  It's 20 feet long, 8.5 feet tall and 8 feet wide.
[07:23.350 --> 07:28.510]  160 square feet and decently high, but not super high ceilings.
[07:29.690 --> 07:32.630]  So, start of day one, you're going to get your container delivered.
[07:32.810 --> 07:39.630]  It's going to cost you about $2,300, give or take a couple hundred bucks, based on location and scrap value of steel at the time.
[07:39.630 --> 07:41.890]  They basically sell for slightly over scrap value.
[07:43.010 --> 07:48.170]  If you Google Conex, C-O-N-E-X, or look it up on Craigslist, sometimes you'll find slightly cheaper.
[07:48.450 --> 07:51.430]  But it's not really something that you should optimize too much.
[07:51.510 --> 07:55.830]  This is your f*cking house and you're paying like $2,300 for the wind and watertight shell.
[07:56.070 --> 07:56.730]  Like, just get it done.
[07:57.910 --> 07:59.910]  Delivery is going to be a hassle.
[08:00.170 --> 08:09.070]  This guy bumped into that house you saw in the first picture and like moved it on its foundation by like six inches as he was backing in with the first container that we experimented with.
[08:09.990 --> 08:11.530]  And then move in, literally.
[08:11.850 --> 08:16.670]  It's great motivation, particularly if you live somewhere very hot or very cold, to work quickly.
[08:16.870 --> 08:17.910]  We lived in this tent.
[08:18.710 --> 08:22.030]  The dogs you saw before double as a heat source.
[08:22.670 --> 08:28.130]  It's not comfortable, but it is really, really good motivation to work quickly.
[08:30.010 --> 08:34.430]  So, that was a little emotionally trying but didn't really take up that much time on your first day.
[08:35.070 --> 08:37.110]  Go get some fancy paint.
[08:37.610 --> 08:39.470]  Specifically, it is reflective roof paint.
[08:39.630 --> 08:43.610]  It's a very bright white, bright enough that you can't look at it directly in the sun.
[08:43.770 --> 08:45.950]  And what this does is prevents a lot of your thermal gain.
[08:47.030 --> 08:52.430]  The standard things that people say about containers, the most common is, isn't it too hot or too cold in there?
[08:52.590 --> 08:53.850]  This really controls the heat.
[08:54.030 --> 08:55.470]  We'll talk about insulation in a minute.
[08:55.810 --> 08:58.650]  But adding this reflectivity makes a big difference.
[08:58.770 --> 09:00.630]  You get a lot of the infrared reflected off.
[09:00.630 --> 09:05.550]  So, it also helps seal up any spots that might be a little rusty on your tin box.
[09:07.270 --> 09:13.210]  And then, take a hot or cold, depending on the time of your nap in your new home.
[09:13.410 --> 09:14.030]  Day two.
[09:14.510 --> 09:16.090]  Now crank through windows and frames.
[09:16.270 --> 09:17.810]  Should cost you about $800.
[09:18.330 --> 09:23.610]  With material choice, we don't waste a bunch of time like salvaging insulation or plywood.
[09:23.610 --> 09:31.090]  If it is low value and would take a bunch of time to get, we just buy it at Home Depot or any other standard place.
[09:31.270 --> 09:41.670]  If it is more expensive and also something that has lots of supply of high quality used, like windows, then we get those used.
[09:41.850 --> 09:45.230]  So, Habitat for Humanity is what it's called in San Francisco.
[09:45.350 --> 09:46.350]  I'm sure you have equivalents here.
[09:46.710 --> 09:48.890]  Anything double pane or better for the windows will be fine.
[09:50.730 --> 09:55.050]  And then, you're going to frame it in this inch and a half square tubing.
[09:55.270 --> 09:57.750]  You're going to actually just weld this onto the container where you want a window.
[09:58.070 --> 10:02.250]  This should be sized like half an inch bigger than your window on the outer dimensions.
[10:02.570 --> 10:05.090]  You're going to weld it to it to be a convenient guide for when you cut.
[10:06.330 --> 10:10.110]  If you're doing a couple of these, splurge with some friends and get a plasma cutter.
[10:10.190 --> 10:11.750]  It's like the coolest tool in the world.
[10:12.290 --> 10:15.150]  At like a foot a minute, you can just cut right through the side of a container.
[10:15.150 --> 10:16.170]  Do it outside.
[10:16.430 --> 10:17.010]  Wear a mask.
[10:17.150 --> 10:17.830]  This is like...
[10:17.830 --> 10:19.090]  This paint is really good.
[10:19.330 --> 10:21.530]  AKA really, really nasty chemicals.
[10:21.830 --> 10:24.150]  Like there's a reason they paint these in China.
[10:24.390 --> 10:28.270]  Because like it's not paint that I think is allowed most other places.
[10:28.710 --> 10:30.030]  So, wear a mask.
[10:30.550 --> 10:31.730]  Drink some milk afterwards.
[10:32.010 --> 10:34.730]  That's like the old welder thing to do when you breathe nasty fumes.
[10:36.190 --> 10:37.050]  It's going to suck.
[10:37.130 --> 10:37.630]  I'm not going to lie.
[10:37.930 --> 10:41.990]  But keep in mind you're building a house for less than $10,000 in a week.
[10:42.210 --> 10:43.870]  So, what's a little lead poisoning?
[10:46.790 --> 10:48.890]  This is what it will look like when you've cut the holes.
[10:49.290 --> 10:51.170]  And when you've attached these frames as well.
[10:51.330 --> 10:54.550]  You're going to frame basically like you want an inch of margin.
[10:55.170 --> 10:56.890]  You're not going to do it the first several times.
[10:56.970 --> 10:57.850]  We didn't either.
[10:58.030 --> 11:01.490]  And it's a giant pain in the ass when you try to do it exactly to the dimensions of the window.
[11:01.730 --> 11:08.570]  So, cut your hole an inch bigger than your window size after you measure it like 10 times rather than twice.
[11:08.570 --> 11:11.190]  And then make this right in between.
[11:11.490 --> 11:12.150]  So, half an inch.
[11:12.470 --> 11:14.370]  So, that because you'll be off.
[11:14.510 --> 11:15.890]  You know, things bend while you're welding them.
[11:16.090 --> 11:17.390]  You want that spare space.
[11:17.550 --> 11:21.490]  You don't want to spend even more time grinding and plasma cutting nasty paint.
[11:22.570 --> 11:24.330]  When it's mounted it will look like this.
[11:24.430 --> 11:26.070]  This metal on the walls.
[11:26.350 --> 11:27.230]  So, that's the window frame.
[11:27.330 --> 11:28.250]  I highly recommend doing that.
[11:28.490 --> 11:29.970]  This metal on the walls you can go either way.
[11:29.970 --> 11:34.870]  You can either do 2x4s and then just tack them to the walls and the corners with self tapping screws.
[11:35.070 --> 11:36.530]  Or you can do metal like we did on this one.
[11:36.930 --> 11:40.070]  The point of this either way is to create space for insulation.
[11:40.350 --> 11:43.270]  And to attach your plywood or sheet rock walls to.
[11:44.670 --> 11:46.490]  This is what it's going to look like when it's done.
[11:46.950 --> 11:48.790]  You'll notice this metal is back on.
[11:49.430 --> 11:50.910]  And it's mounted on hinges.
[11:51.610 --> 11:57.450]  So, we have that square tube just welded to the container to serve as a guide for when we're plasma cutting.
[11:57.450 --> 12:04.710]  And then that also doubles to reinforce the otherwise flimsy steel so that we now have nice shade structures when they're open.
[12:05.030 --> 12:07.290]  And adding a little bit of chain.
[12:07.790 --> 12:10.690]  And again, welding is not... most of you probably have not welded.
[12:10.950 --> 12:13.670]  But it's not this difficult thing particularly with...
[12:14.030 --> 12:18.410]  Like you're not going to be making airplanes or bike frames after a day of learning how to weld.
[12:18.550 --> 12:22.670]  But you can totally do all the welding for this after like an hour to two hours.
[12:24.490 --> 12:27.390]  This is what they'll look like from the outside when you're done.
[12:27.710 --> 12:34.250]  We opted for very low cost blade runner aesthetic rebar supports for the windows.
[12:37.150 --> 12:39.950]  And that'll be... that'll be a busy second day.
[12:40.650 --> 12:42.630]  Your container still won't be too comfortable.
[12:42.810 --> 12:46.930]  But after this day of insulation, you'll be... you'll be sleeping much more comfortably.
[12:47.470 --> 12:49.850]  It's super cheap like many things with this.
[12:50.010 --> 12:52.650]  Not because we have like some magical shortcut for the material.
[12:52.850 --> 12:55.130]  Because it's 160 square feet.
[12:55.350 --> 12:57.430]  So it's not a lot of space to deal with.
[12:57.570 --> 12:58.210]  You can do things.
[12:58.270 --> 13:00.090]  And I'd encourage you if you decide to do this.
[13:00.090 --> 13:02.050]  Tiny house with a container or otherwise.
[13:02.270 --> 13:05.250]  Like you can do something that's several dollars a square foot.
[13:05.390 --> 13:08.810]  That would like bankrupt... that would cost more than this whole project on a normal size house.
[13:08.910 --> 13:11.310]  But because it's 160 square feet, it's no big deal.
[13:12.450 --> 13:15.290]  So again, this is what it's going to look like when you frame in the insulation.
[13:15.290 --> 13:17.970]  Or just replace those with 2x4s if you want to do it that way.
[13:18.170 --> 13:18.910]  Doesn't really matter.
[13:19.730 --> 13:20.970]  We use this stuff called Reflectix.
[13:21.090 --> 13:23.850]  It's like what you would put on your windshield if you park in the sun.
[13:24.090 --> 13:26.710]  You can buy it at Home Depot or any other normal...
[13:26.710 --> 13:27.990]  Like it's a super commodity thing.
[13:28.210 --> 13:31.070]  If you use 2x4s, you can just use the pink nasty stuff.
[13:31.850 --> 13:33.070]  We just glued this in.
[13:33.230 --> 13:34.270]  You can also just stuff it in.
[13:34.830 --> 13:35.590]  It's not too bad.
[13:35.670 --> 13:38.930]  I mean, it's like... makes you feel like you're in a Faraday cage.
[13:39.130 --> 13:40.190]  And you kind of are at this point.
[13:40.290 --> 13:43.090]  You have to be careful actually with window placement for cell phone reception.
[13:43.230 --> 13:44.490]  We get like dead spots in ours.
[13:45.530 --> 13:46.870]  But it's not too bad of a day.
[13:47.470 --> 13:50.010]  You will then sleep much easier before day 4.
[13:50.390 --> 13:52.270]  Doing your walls and your flooring.
[13:52.770 --> 13:55.670]  We go with bamboo flooring.
[13:56.130 --> 13:59.550]  You want solid... I would highly recommend solid core for whatever you do in flooring.
[13:59.730 --> 14:04.090]  Because when it gets screwed up, which it will, as any of you who have wood flooring know.
[14:04.710 --> 14:06.450]  It still looks good because it's solid core.
[14:06.550 --> 14:07.930]  So it's like bamboo all the way through.
[14:08.090 --> 14:10.450]  So you scratch it and you just see slightly different colors of bamboo.
[14:10.610 --> 14:10.950]  No big deal.
[14:11.990 --> 14:13.710]  It's like $2 a square foot or something.
[14:14.110 --> 14:16.610]  I would recommend against the skylight that you see here.
[14:17.490 --> 14:18.190]  Skylight's sleek.
[14:18.390 --> 14:19.930]  Kind of like period hard stop.
[14:21.030 --> 14:22.650]  I'm not going to be putting any more of those in.
[14:22.670 --> 14:24.210]  This was one that we did for a friend.
[14:24.690 --> 14:26.930]  And then this is like half inch to three quarter inch plywood.
[14:26.930 --> 14:31.210]  On the walls, I like using two by fours as the moldings.
[14:31.390 --> 14:34.870]  Heather disagrees with that in most of my other aesthetic choices.
[14:35.130 --> 14:36.750]  But you know, it's your tiny house.
[14:36.850 --> 14:37.330]  Do whatever you want.
[14:39.110 --> 14:41.330]  Day four, we're also going to do the bedroom.
[14:41.750 --> 14:44.570]  This is kind of can be plus or minus depending on the mattress.
[14:44.850 --> 14:46.330]  I got like some cheap IKEA thing.
[14:46.430 --> 14:48.270]  So it was around $500 total.
[14:48.270 --> 14:50.470]  Like sheets, mattress and everything.
[14:51.290 --> 14:52.750]  My closet is underneath.
[14:53.010 --> 14:55.150]  This is again just cheap plywood put together.
[14:55.550 --> 14:58.970]  If you have dogs like we do, I would recommend putting covers on that closet.
[14:59.130 --> 15:01.590]  Unless you want dog hair in everything all the time like we have.
[15:02.290 --> 15:03.910]  This is a projector screen.
[15:04.110 --> 15:05.230]  It was about $160.
[15:05.750 --> 15:06.310]  It's motorized.
[15:06.390 --> 15:13.770]  You press a button and your projector screen that doubles as a privacy divider for the bedroom goes up or down.
[15:14.050 --> 15:16.850]  There's a lot of hacks like that that you'll find as you go with this.
[15:16.850 --> 15:21.790]  Where, you know, that's crazy to have a thing going across your whole house if it's a normal sized house.
[15:21.910 --> 15:24.010]  It would be like a huge engineering headache and tons of money.
[15:24.210 --> 15:25.630]  But tiny house, different story.
[15:28.430 --> 15:30.450]  This is also dog den down here.
[15:30.630 --> 15:31.750]  Room for the dogs to hang out.
[15:31.990 --> 15:35.370]  Heat rises, so they're a nice supplemental heating source for when you're asleep.
[15:37.330 --> 15:37.810]  Kitchen.
[15:38.090 --> 15:43.430]  Average American kitchen renovation is something like $21,000 on day five.
[15:43.430 --> 15:45.430]  We're going to come in a little bit cheaper than that.
[15:46.650 --> 15:59.070]  Two good sources of equipment, three actually, for what you should consider putting in your container or other tiny house are things people use in RVs and things people use in boats.
[15:59.570 --> 16:02.870]  And then there's also like a weird like cabin and camping thing.
[16:03.310 --> 16:05.290]  RVs and boats are the two main ones, but also camping.
[16:05.290 --> 16:09.290]  So like the best seller on Amazon in these categories is a good place to start.
[16:09.510 --> 16:16.470]  It's not going to be... if you approach it the other way and look at like tiny house ovens, for example, you'll come up with a lot of what I call design porn.
[16:16.610 --> 16:18.830]  Like either stuff that doesn't exist or is super expensive.
[16:19.110 --> 16:26.830]  Like the standard recommended one that the like Vermont design porn tiny house builders will show you cost more than my entire kitchen did.
[16:26.830 --> 16:33.790]  This, the best seller in camping stoves on Amazon, is an oven with two propane burners above it and was like $150.
[16:34.890 --> 16:38.250]  That's kind of like average appliance cost if you're doing it right in my opinion.
[16:39.970 --> 16:50.370]  The fridge, you can spend thousands of dollars for a fancy propane fridge or you can go to your local horrible big box store and buy a chest freezer.
[16:50.370 --> 16:51.570]  They're really well insulated.
[16:51.750 --> 16:52.370]  Heat rises.
[16:52.770 --> 16:55.810]  Add an Arduino and a relay and a temperature sensor.
[16:55.990 --> 17:00.930]  And then you have something that takes a couple hundred watts a day to keep your food right above freezing.
[17:03.270 --> 17:04.150]  Power and water.
[17:05.350 --> 17:07.470]  As with most of this, keep it simple.
[17:08.110 --> 17:11.590]  Bastardize tools that would... and equipment that would be used for other things.
[17:11.590 --> 17:16.270]  This is Amazon best seller for 12 volt LED strips.
[17:16.550 --> 17:23.210]  Running off of stereo wire because short distance and not much power DC direct to our battery array.
[17:23.450 --> 17:27.810]  This is an extension cord hacked together to surge protectors.
[17:28.010 --> 17:29.390]  Like, don't be stupid.
[17:29.530 --> 17:31.170]  Don't go like at 10x the rated load.
[17:31.370 --> 17:36.730]  Like splurge for 20 feet of 12 gauge rather than 14 gauge extension cord.
[17:36.730 --> 17:43.410]  And like, if you don't know what that means, like half an hour of Googling, like, how much power can I put on an extension cord before it gets hot?
[17:43.530 --> 17:45.610]  We'll... we'll help you out there.
[17:47.250 --> 17:52.390]  This is black pipe for the propane that powers the heater and the oven.
[17:53.350 --> 17:55.050]  My newest version is going to be all electric.
[17:55.490 --> 17:57.810]  It also powers the on-demand hot water.
[17:57.990 --> 18:03.650]  I couldn't find a shower nozzle that I liked, so I used a garden nozzle, which I think looks pretty cool.
[18:05.890 --> 18:09.310]  There's something like 10 feet of outgoing pipe.
[18:09.550 --> 18:10.270]  It's super simple.
[18:10.390 --> 18:13.950]  It just goes here and then under the shower to outside.
[18:14.430 --> 18:18.450]  And there's something like 20 feet of incoming pipe supplied by literally this garden hose.
[18:19.290 --> 18:21.030]  There's an on-demand pump under here as well.
[18:21.110 --> 18:24.470]  If you want to do, like, full off-grid, you basically, like, flip a switch on the plumbing.
[18:25.290 --> 18:27.410]  But we just have it wired in the warehouse right now.
[18:29.030 --> 18:31.770]  Moisture is your enemy in any kind of bathroom situation.
[18:32.030 --> 18:34.410]  So there's a fan venting to outside from the shower.
[18:35.570 --> 18:37.250]  And, again, keep it simple.
[18:37.350 --> 18:46.590]  This is the inch-and-a-half pipe that runs, like, the six feet from the kitchen sink, stopping here with a T for the shower and then to outside.
[18:47.510 --> 18:52.550]  We had it going into a big IBC, like, one of those 200-gallon tanks.
[18:52.770 --> 18:53.590]  I would not do that.
[18:53.690 --> 18:57.310]  It smelled really bad because it was going from greywater to blackwater pretty quickly.
[18:57.510 --> 19:00.770]  So, like, just directly water some plants or go into a normal drain.
[19:01.430 --> 19:02.870]  Again, don't overcomplicate it.
[19:03.850 --> 19:05.230]  Porch, super simple.
[19:05.370 --> 19:07.570]  Some neat tricks we did with it.
[19:07.810 --> 19:16.430]  It's the doors that are part of the container and then three pieces of wood that literally, along with the solar array, all will collapse back within the container.
[19:16.670 --> 19:27.390]  So when we move it, you know, the window shades fold down, these panels slide inside, and it basically looks like a container with, like, inch-and-a-half protrusions where the windows are, but it's pretty indistinguishable.
[19:29.130 --> 19:30.390]  So this bolts on.
[19:30.470 --> 19:37.030]  There's about 12 bolts total to put on or remove the wood front and the floor.
[19:37.690 --> 19:41.670]  You may have noticed bike tires were holding up my electrical system.
[19:41.670 --> 19:47.110]  These were added to the roof after it blew off in a particularly severe rainstorm.
[19:48.150 --> 19:49.870]  You know, not that big a deal.
[19:50.330 --> 19:51.310]  Add some bike tires.
[19:51.670 --> 19:53.710]  So far, they're holding steady.
[19:55.210 --> 19:55.770]  Oh, yeah.
[19:56.050 --> 20:09.990]  And the most controversial by far, one of the lowest costs, and ironically, like, I guess, maybe not irony, but it'll be the most controversial and it's probably one of the best things you can do for the environment, using a composting toilet.
[20:10.170 --> 20:15.010]  I would just pee directly, you know, in your shower or otherwise, like, just use that in your gray water system.
[20:15.030 --> 20:16.210]  It's actually really good for plants.
[20:16.650 --> 20:19.370]  For poo, you're gonna spend... it's not really $100.
[20:19.710 --> 20:20.790]  It's more like $30.
[20:21.330 --> 20:23.910]  It's, again, your big box bucket.
[20:24.250 --> 20:26.190]  This is a camping thing or Amazon.
[20:26.370 --> 20:27.590]  Again, best-seller camping toilet.
[20:27.590 --> 20:29.990]  It's a lid that just goes on the top.
[20:30.170 --> 20:32.690]  Then when you poop, you cover it with sawdust.
[20:33.150 --> 20:35.310]  Then you put it in a compost pile for a year.
[20:35.550 --> 20:39.650]  And there's a good Vice documentary, actually, about New York sewage.
[20:39.810 --> 20:48.530]  So any organic vegetables that you buy in New York are more likely than not to actually have processed New York sewage used as the organic fertilizer.
[20:48.830 --> 20:54.010]  So it's... the ick factor is, like, how people don't like slaughtering animals but eat meat.
[20:54.010 --> 20:55.350]  Pretty much the same thing.
[20:55.570 --> 20:56.470]  So, like, no big deal.
[20:56.630 --> 20:57.130]  Do it if you want.
[20:57.410 --> 20:58.730]  We're too lazy to usually do this.
[20:58.850 --> 21:01.070]  We have normal bathrooms in the... in the warehouse.
[21:01.310 --> 21:03.410]  And it's, like, by far the most controversial thing.
[21:03.530 --> 21:04.050]  It's really weird.
[21:04.150 --> 21:05.250]  This is what everyone asks about.
[21:07.570 --> 21:09.090]  Day seven, solar.
[21:09.830 --> 21:11.030]  I spent about $1,500.
[21:11.030 --> 21:12.050]  You can go way cheaper.
[21:12.250 --> 21:13.510]  This is a way cheaper setup.
[21:13.690 --> 21:24.770]  This is, like, 100 watts, a decent, like, deep cycle marine battery, super cheap controller that came with a panel, and then an inverter to power whatever you have that is DC.
[21:25.050 --> 21:27.990]  As a rule of thumb, you're losing, like, 10% with the inverter.
[21:28.030 --> 21:40.930]  So if you can power things on DC, like, if you're using LEDs, just get 12 volt power supply to your battery to power the LEDs rather than, like, converting back and forth unnecessarily, but it's not, like, a huge deal.
[21:41.230 --> 21:43.510]  Solar is, like, 60 to 70 cents a watt.
[21:43.510 --> 21:45.410]  So just oversize your array.
[21:46.650 --> 21:51.530]  As I did, we had about... we have a kilowatt on top of the container you saw before.
[21:52.050 --> 21:57.430]  This charge controller is, like, it's a little frustrating that it is literally a mysterious black box.
[21:57.610 --> 21:59.710]  It's the one black box element of this, though.
[21:59.930 --> 22:00.910]  It works really well.
[22:01.070 --> 22:02.610]  It'll power up to, like, 4 kilowatts.
[22:02.790 --> 22:05.430]  Power inverters, you can get cheap ones on eBay that are stackable.
[22:05.650 --> 22:08.770]  You won't... you probably won't know exactly what you eventually want to power.
[22:09.290 --> 22:14.030]  So this is 2.5 kilowatts each, and you can parallelize them as you grow.
[22:14.190 --> 22:14.810]  A couple hundred bucks.
[22:15.530 --> 22:24.350]  And then in the background, this green thing with some sulfuric acid swelling out of the top is a used golf card battery.
[22:24.550 --> 22:25.430]  They're super cheap.
[22:25.590 --> 22:26.210]  They're, like, $70.
[22:26.650 --> 22:32.250]  We put in 10 kilowatt hours of them, which is the equivalent of a Tesla Powerwall, and cost us about $320.
[22:32.870 --> 22:38.430]  You can also Google DIY desulfator to find my buddy Mikey's kit to desulfate these.
[22:38.430 --> 22:45.110]  You basically plug it in, and it vibrates the sulfur deposits back into solution, so screwed-up batteries work well again.
[22:47.390 --> 22:49.930]  So, very rough, very busy seven days.
[22:50.210 --> 22:53.210]  Might stretch out to seven months or so, if you're like us.
[22:54.050 --> 22:55.890]  And don't change stuff, like, when you start it.
[22:55.910 --> 22:57.370]  Unless it's, like, something that's gonna break.
[22:57.490 --> 22:59.430]  That's been, like, a huge source of delay with us.
[22:59.530 --> 23:01.270]  We're like, oh, why don't we reconfigure that?
[23:01.390 --> 23:02.530]  And then, like, two months go by.
[23:02.530 --> 23:02.530]  Okay.
[23:03.330 --> 23:06.910]  Totals, if you do it quickly, this is what it looks like.
[23:07.050 --> 23:08.590]  What you're doing on your seven days.
[23:08.890 --> 23:10.310]  About how much they're costing.
[23:10.690 --> 23:11.490]  Skip the toilet.
[23:11.710 --> 23:12.290]  Too controversial.
[23:13.910 --> 23:15.350]  You're at about $9,200.
[23:16.010 --> 23:18.030]  Seven very, very long days.
[23:18.570 --> 23:20.550]  And then you can add some stuff for fun.
[23:20.710 --> 23:23.890]  My latest one, this is... Relay boards are, like, super cheap.
[23:24.050 --> 23:26.610]  And Raspberry Pis are, obviously, super cheap.
[23:26.850 --> 23:30.410]  This is a Pi with a touch screen and a $20 relay board.
[23:30.410 --> 23:33.590]  Each of the outlets in my new one, there's, like, eight outlets.
[23:33.790 --> 23:36.290]  Each pair of outlets is controlled by an individual relay.
[23:36.470 --> 23:37.730]  And each light, as well.
[23:37.910 --> 23:42.050]  So, I can say things like, Alexa, trigger lights.
[23:43.110 --> 23:46.070]  And the lights will... assuming that it works.
[23:46.330 --> 23:47.090]  Which is occasional.
[23:47.310 --> 23:49.090]  So, like, 50-50 chance they'll turn on or off.
[23:50.070 --> 23:53.510]  I'm now adding a fully Blade Runner-esque coding to the windows.
[23:53.730 --> 23:54.590]  Something called PLDC.
[23:54.910 --> 23:56.890]  It's, like, $1,200 for the whole container.
[23:57.090 --> 23:59.810]  And it'll let me say, Alexa, dim windows.
[23:59.810 --> 24:02.910]  And the windows will go from transparent to opaque.
[24:06.450 --> 24:09.390]  A quick note about space for these.
[24:09.690 --> 24:13.410]  It's really hard to find tiny spaces where people don't care what you do.
[24:13.650 --> 24:16.210]  But it's relatively easy to find big spaces.
[24:16.690 --> 24:20.330]  So, just find a big space and make some friends.
[24:20.330 --> 24:25.930]  You'll be surprised how easy it is to find other people who want a space where they can build some stuff.
[24:26.390 --> 24:29.930]  Call it a 24-7 art space so that you don't get kicked out as quickly.
[24:31.270 --> 24:37.910]  And, yeah, I mean, like, in our case, it makes sense to pay for a whole warehouse just to make these happen a little more slowly.
[24:38.450 --> 24:42.110]  Fortunately for you, these are shipping containers.
[24:42.550 --> 24:43.650]  Stress on the shipping.
[24:43.830 --> 24:45.010]  They're highly movable.
[24:45.010 --> 24:47.970]  Just, like, be resilient by being ready to move.
[24:48.130 --> 24:50.510]  Don't waste time engaging with bullshit like this.
[24:50.690 --> 24:51.790]  Just find another place.
[24:53.150 --> 24:56.950]  If you're willing to do big spaces, it's relatively easy to do.
[24:58.510 --> 25:03.070]  You'll end up with a glorious mess like this sooner than you think.
[25:04.750 --> 25:15.030]  Unlike most hacker spaces that fail most of the time, something we did from the start with this was make sure that it would be profitable even at, like, six... it's profitable at a little over 60% full.
[25:15.230 --> 25:30.390]  So it's been profitable since the second month, which translates to we enjoy doing it and can afford to occasionally fight with the landlord about it if we need to and can do cool things like start hacking the actual zoning process.
[25:30.650 --> 25:32.270]  This isn't a notice of violation.
[25:32.270 --> 25:34.470]  This is a positive version of a city thing.
[25:34.730 --> 25:37.770]  This is what $3,000 in the city of Oakland buys you.
[25:38.330 --> 25:41.310]  So basically what I did was, like, I don't know if it would go through.
[25:41.550 --> 25:43.150]  And they can just reject it and you don't get your money back.
[25:43.150 --> 25:57.030]  So we paid $3,200 to file this and it's proposing that this lot that we bought with some friends will be no fixed location parking and greenhouses for urban appropriate nurseries.
[25:57.310 --> 26:08.890]  So we will find out very soon whether a trailer with a license plate with a shipping container on it with some green shit growing on the side qualifies as in compliance with this.
[26:09.910 --> 26:11.810]  That's an ongoing hack.
[26:11.950 --> 26:13.110]  I'll keep you posted on that.
[26:14.130 --> 26:15.610]  And don't limit yourself to containers.
[26:16.010 --> 26:17.510]  This is our newest project.
[26:17.990 --> 26:20.130]  This whole surrounding weirdness.
[26:20.270 --> 26:26.950]  It's this giant courtyard that this elderly artist, like, halfway converted into different rooms.
[26:27.130 --> 26:29.330]  Most of them don't have, like, they have power.
[26:29.650 --> 26:30.310]  That's about it.
[26:31.330 --> 26:33.090]  There's, like, wood stoves and other funkiness.
[26:33.210 --> 26:34.730]  This is all in, like, West Oakland.
[26:34.910 --> 26:38.270]  Like, all of this is within a mile and a half of the West Oakland bar, by the way.
[26:38.370 --> 26:39.770]  So we're not, like, in the boondocks.
[26:39.830 --> 26:42.670]  This is, like, quickly growing weird neighborhood.
[26:44.430 --> 26:47.970]  As you can tell, no one enjoys the courtyard at all.
[26:48.230 --> 26:52.510]  No one ever drinks any beer or has any fun or lights anything on fire.
[26:54.530 --> 26:57.350]  This is the rooftop of the middle of these three locations.
[26:57.350 --> 27:01.810]  The roof of that giant warehouse that Heather showed you with aerial silks that I showed a couple slides ago.
[27:02.570 --> 27:10.050]  This is our microwave link to surrounding local ISP on a mountainside.
[27:10.310 --> 27:15.310]  And then you can't really see, but mounted on the back of it is a local mesh that we're setting up.
[27:15.430 --> 27:21.790]  So the three locations are meshed together to have redundant high-speed links, as well as high-speed between them.
[27:21.790 --> 27:23.810]  We've started linking in neighbors, as well.
[27:24.470 --> 27:32.830]  And I think that in the near future, we'll start deploying interesting things like security drones and linking our DVRs together.
[27:33.130 --> 27:36.310]  If you want to be depressed, Google Oakland Police Department.
[27:36.570 --> 27:44.050]  We've had three police chiefs fired in one week over a repulsively ridiculous scandal.
[27:44.050 --> 27:46.490]  We now have no police chief, literally.
[27:46.730 --> 27:49.330]  And like, we're not going to any time soon, is what the mayor is saying.
[27:49.510 --> 27:55.710]  So, point being, I think we can and will build better alternatives locally, largely for fun.
[27:56.030 --> 28:00.450]  Because, you know, we're not exactly competing against rock stars.
[28:02.630 --> 28:06.790]  So, you wouldn't let someone dictate what operating system you're allowed to use.
[28:06.910 --> 28:10.830]  You wouldn't let the mayor of your town say that you're only allowed to wear Nike brand shoes.
[28:10.830 --> 28:24.970]  Yet, we all have... most of us have become quite complacent in letting giant corporations that bribe politicians dictate where, when, and how we will work, where, when, and how we will live.
[28:25.210 --> 28:26.470]  And it's costing us a lot of money.
[28:26.590 --> 28:28.630]  It's not nearly as much fun.
[28:28.830 --> 28:30.670]  This isn't necessarily for everybody.
[28:30.990 --> 28:38.330]  Not everyone wants to live in a 20,000 square foot warehouse with fresh beer on tap, some of their best friends, high-speed Internet.
[28:38.330 --> 28:40.950]  I mean, it doesn't sound so rough when I describe it.
[28:41.090 --> 28:49.310]  But whether that's for you or not, just step back and think, like, yes, fighting DRM, all of these are important issues.
[28:49.730 --> 28:53.550]  But, you know, don't do that and then go live in a corporate IKEA house.
[28:53.630 --> 28:54.630]  That's a little hypocritical.
[28:54.770 --> 28:56.010]  You can and should do better.
[28:56.050 --> 28:59.850]  It'll make you have more fun and be more productive at whatever else you do.
[29:00.070 --> 29:01.630]  Most importantly, get started.
[29:02.890 --> 29:04.210]  There are plenty of opportunities.
[29:04.210 --> 29:07.890]  Just saw this floating last night off of 92nd Street.
[29:08.390 --> 29:10.890]  This is just, like, so ripe for hacking.
[29:11.070 --> 29:15.270]  It's really unbelievable that more people aren't doing wacky stuff here.
[29:15.650 --> 29:16.650]  So, this is our website.
[29:16.830 --> 29:17.870]  All our stuff is open source.
[29:19.130 --> 29:20.610]  We're behind on documenting us.
[29:20.810 --> 29:24.030]  Nag us about things that you want to see documented sooner rather than later.
[29:24.290 --> 29:27.550]  If you're in Oakland, shoot us an email and come visit us.
[29:27.550 --> 29:30.070]  Or, better yet, build your own.
[29:30.430 --> 29:47.990]  Or, best yet, do something super ambitious like something on wheels parked on city streets that autonomously relocates to the other side when street sweeping is occurring and is available for nightly rentals with pricing based on one's net worth and paid in Bitcoin.
[29:49.190 --> 29:49.930]  That's all.
[29:50.070 --> 29:51.070]  Just get to work on that.
[29:56.460 --> 29:59.330]  So, I think we have plenty of time for questions.
[29:59.330 --> 30:02.070]  Thank you all for coming and please ask anything.
[30:02.330 --> 30:07.050]  If you don't ask a question and leave this talk, you have no excuse not to build your own house in the next six months.
[30:10.460 --> 30:11.830]  I just wanted to comment.
[30:12.920 --> 30:18.120]  My in-laws actually built an office out of three 20-foot containers down in Tanzania.
[30:18.930 --> 30:26.050]  The building codes are almost non-existent, but when they build you a house, it can cave in rather easily and they're really low quality.
[30:31.210 --> 30:47.290]  So, you can build something, even an office or a house or something like that rather inexpensively because my in-laws built three 20-foot containers together in Tanzania with plumbing and electricity and everything for 14,000 U.S. dollars.
[30:47.550 --> 30:47.860]  Wow.
[30:47.860 --> 30:48.330]  Yeah.
[30:48.500 --> 30:49.420]  Completely finished off.
[30:50.040 --> 30:51.200]  We actually...
[30:51.200 --> 31:01.600]  One of the first projects we did was we built a fully functional metal shop with a CNC plasma cutter and shipped it to Kenya and dropped it in a field in rural Western Kenya.
[31:02.940 --> 31:03.500]  Yeah.
[31:03.700 --> 31:09.120]  We were making an accessory for farmers that went on top of 55-gallon drums.
[31:09.120 --> 31:13.240]  And we had to precisely cut, it was like 16 gauge.
[31:13.620 --> 31:24.880]  So, we did the math and it turned out we could ship two containers full of finished product or we could build the factory in the middle of nowhere, iterate at quantity one because, you know, it's a CNC.
[31:25.120 --> 31:26.500]  It's essentially digital at that point.
[31:26.740 --> 31:31.240]  Source everything, including the metal within a hundred miles of where we were.
[31:31.240 --> 31:35.880]  And our break even was like at 1.8 containers worth of shipping.
[31:36.100 --> 31:49.880]  So, if you do anything in the developing world, whether it's like building your house there that you want to not fall over in the next weird natural disaster or any type of production, like it's surprisingly compelling to just buy used equipment, ship a container and install it there.
[31:58.400 --> 32:00.120]  Have you looked at houseboats?
[32:00.340 --> 32:02.780]  A friend of mine lived in Boston.
[32:02.780 --> 32:10.940]  He purchased a houseboat with a seized engine for $3,000 and managed to find a community where people lived in houseboats.
[32:11.060 --> 32:15.260]  And he was paying, I think, $300 to $400 a month for the slip rental.
[32:15.320 --> 32:19.920]  It included power, water and Internet and a parking lot.
[32:19.920 --> 32:23.180]  And it was on the public transit line within the city of Boston.
[32:23.500 --> 32:26.100]  So, he basically found the cheapest way to live in Boston.
[32:29.620 --> 32:34.160]  Yeah, some friends rented some space from us as like a boat hackerspace as well.
[32:34.160 --> 32:35.700]  And a lot of them do live aboard.
[32:36.980 --> 32:46.200]  The thing to look for there is, at least in California, there's very strict quotas on what percent of boats in a dock can be live aboard.
[32:46.640 --> 32:48.740]  There's also, people call it like sneak aboard.
[32:48.960 --> 32:52.320]  So, don't just call and ask if you have live aboard available because they probably won't.
[32:52.480 --> 33:02.900]  Go and get to know some of the people and you very likely, you know, if you don't have a dog and you're low-key about it, can probably still get away with living aboard just with normal docking.
[33:03.520 --> 33:08.240]  I just have a comment about building on boats in New York.
[33:09.080 --> 33:09.680]  Sweet.
[33:10.500 --> 33:19.340]  There's a title, Wetlands Protection Act, that prohibits the use of boats as a building and you will get fined up to $10,000 a day by DEC.
[33:22.240 --> 33:24.400]  Yeah, so that brings up a really good point.
[33:25.060 --> 33:28.520]  There's the written regulations and then there's the real politic regulations.
[33:29.620 --> 33:34.620]  In Oakland, you're not allowed to park an RV on private property unless it is inside a metal garage.
[33:34.960 --> 33:37.740]  That's as illegal as any of the other zoning laws we were breaking.
[33:38.000 --> 33:39.660]  But it's just totally not enforced.
[33:39.660 --> 33:45.840]  So again, like, if you really like a location, like we do Oakland, it sucks.
[33:46.120 --> 33:48.780]  Like, I wish it was all digital and I wish it was fairly enforced.
[33:48.960 --> 33:52.380]  Oh, all zoning pretty much everywhere that I've heard of is based on complaints.
[33:52.380 --> 33:56.060]  So it's like this intrinsically fit in with the neighbors, a.k.a.
[33:56.160 --> 34:01.080]  don't be a different color, gender, political orientation or anything else compared to them.
[34:01.100 --> 34:02.360]  And you probably won't get reported.
[34:02.500 --> 34:05.400]  So it's this lovely racial undertone to it.
[34:05.860 --> 34:09.240]  But yeah, there's a difference between the written zoning and what is actually enforced.
[34:12.300 --> 34:16.360]  I noticed that the containers come with flat roofs.
[34:16.860 --> 34:25.180]  Do you have any experience putting a pitch on the roofs for the purpose of weather elements, cooling water, et cetera?
[34:26.820 --> 34:35.040]  One thing that we've done is, like, jam a 2x4 up when we were putting the, like, metal studs across the roof.
[34:35.140 --> 34:38.700]  So our roofs are bowed a little bit, which gives runoff.
[34:38.700 --> 34:45.240]  I mean, we live in San Francisco right now, so there's no weather ever that we have to deal with.
[34:47.020 --> 34:54.080]  When Luke had his solar array up above the roof, it was also a really good way of providing kind of an air back gap.
[34:54.980 --> 34:56.860]  And his was slightly sloped.
[34:57.020 --> 35:02.260]  So anything that, like, any time it did rain, it would run off the solar panels.
[35:02.300 --> 35:04.880]  And our container stayed pretty even temperature.
[35:07.260 --> 35:08.300]  Yeah, that's about it.
[35:09.060 --> 35:11.280]  I was just gonna ask about, like, the spaces.
[35:11.700 --> 35:15.420]  Like, how do you find, like, a warehouse or how do you find, like, a lot?
[35:17.040 --> 35:18.880]  Should you be looking at Craigslist?
[35:19.440 --> 35:20.660]  Yeah, so...
[35:21.500 --> 35:22.840]  I tried in...
[35:22.840 --> 35:24.640]  Oh, so the question was how do you find spaces?
[35:25.400 --> 35:26.320]  There's Craigslist.
[35:26.460 --> 35:27.240]  There's Friends of Friends.
[35:27.600 --> 35:36.160]  If you're buying something, like, the only things I've successfully bought have been, like, literally just walking around and seeing a sign, like, the day it went up by dumb luck.
[35:36.320 --> 35:42.180]  This is a weird, shitty website that you can use to find for at least commercial things.
[35:42.900 --> 35:45.920]  Again, like, there's the real politic element of it.
[35:46.080 --> 35:49.320]  Don't just call and ask if you can live in their warehouse.
[35:50.420 --> 35:53.280]  Ask if, like, because everyone will say no to that.
[35:53.520 --> 36:01.280]  Most landlords will say yes to rent automatically paid in full a week ahead of time and not being up in your business too much.
[36:02.180 --> 36:02.440]  That's...
[36:02.700 --> 36:05.000]  I've had much success with the latter.
[36:05.500 --> 36:05.940]  Yeah.
[36:06.180 --> 36:07.860]  And then what about, like, city locations?
[36:08.180 --> 36:08.900]  Like, I don't know.
[36:09.060 --> 36:15.760]  Because you live in Oakland and Oakland, like a more southern period, compared to San Francisco.
[36:16.040 --> 36:18.660]  Do you think this could exist in San Francisco?
[36:19.280 --> 36:21.040]  The question was city locations.
[36:21.100 --> 36:23.620]  Can't we get away with a lot more in Oakland than San Francisco?
[36:24.340 --> 36:25.340]  We thought so.
[36:25.440 --> 36:29.280]  That was part of why we moved to San Francisco, or to Oakland from San Francisco.
[36:29.920 --> 36:31.820]  San Francisco is actually more lax on it.
[36:31.980 --> 36:39.840]  One of the zoning enforcement people is a part-time artist and is on record, like, four years ago saying, you know, it's tough to afford to live in the city.
[36:40.040 --> 36:44.040]  So if artists are living in commercial spaces, we just kind of turn a blind eye.
[36:45.040 --> 36:48.580]  Oakland, we have, like, a little mini war going with the zoning department.
[36:48.580 --> 36:50.160]  So it's a little more stringent there.
[36:50.460 --> 37:03.780]  But, yeah, I mean, the other thing is, like, with the design elements, with location, with everything about this, treat it more as, like, a fun, temporary project that, like, by dumb luck over time will become more long-term.
[37:04.440 --> 37:07.280]  Don't treat it as something that you need to get perfect before you start.
[37:07.940 --> 37:23.540]  Or, like most people who build things who are way better at it than us, you will just talk about how horrible of an idea it is to use shipping containers, or how bad an idea it is to be in West Oakland, rather than doing it and failing until it is mildly successful.
[37:25.000 --> 37:27.500]  Did you consider 40-foot containers?
[37:27.720 --> 37:29.700]  I know that's huge, but...
[37:29.700 --> 37:33.040]  Did you encounter a lot of problems trying to do 40-foot containers?
[37:36.580 --> 37:39.180]  The question was, do we use 40-foot containers?
[37:39.940 --> 37:41.980]  We haven't used 40-foot containers.
[37:43.160 --> 37:47.900]  Since it's mostly us moving them around, they're pretty hard to deal with.
[37:47.900 --> 37:51.000]  It's pretty hard to find space to put a 40-foot container.
[37:52.280 --> 37:55.280]  It's hard to find a forklift that can move a 40-foot container.
[37:56.180 --> 38:02.080]  With my spatial skills, I'm not sure I can haul one around with a forklift.
[38:03.720 --> 38:05.900]  Aspirationally, though, we want to get there.
[38:06.000 --> 38:09.780]  Luke has his dream home that incorporates one.
[38:10.800 --> 38:14.700]  Yeah, so, like, this is a 20-foot container on the ground.
[38:15.580 --> 38:19.100]  This is a 40-foot container, no supports, centered.
[38:20.040 --> 38:21.060]  Then you have, you know...
[38:23.260 --> 38:24.340]  High-tech modeling.
[38:24.520 --> 38:25.940]  Container one, on ground.
[38:26.240 --> 38:27.200]  Container two...
[38:27.200 --> 38:27.320]  Whoa!
[38:28.360 --> 38:29.220]  Breaking laptop.
[38:30.280 --> 38:33.080]  Container two, perpendicular to it, centered.
[38:33.420 --> 38:36.020]  Then you have, like, 18 feet in the air.
[38:36.560 --> 38:38.720]  A 40-foot by 8-foot deck.
[38:39.260 --> 38:42.220]  Not exactly the best earthquake idea, but it'll be...
[38:42.220 --> 38:44.500]  It'll be a good temporary home at some point.
[38:44.760 --> 38:47.120]  Yeah, they're definitely cheaper per cubic foot.
[38:47.380 --> 38:49.280]  Because, again, pricing's based on scrap value.
[38:49.520 --> 38:50.880]  But they are much harder to move.
[38:51.040 --> 38:54.860]  Like, a 20-foot setup, you can find DIY plans for a trailer that can haul it.
[38:56.180 --> 38:57.100]  You can also...
[38:57.100 --> 39:01.160]  An interesting thing is there are not many 20-foot high cubes.
[39:01.300 --> 39:05.680]  A high cube is 9.5 feet, rather than 8.5 feet tall, exterior dimensions.
[39:06.240 --> 39:07.640]  It's very hard to find those.
[39:07.640 --> 39:08.980]  And there's a price premium for them.
[39:09.140 --> 39:11.960]  But it's relatively easy to find 40-foot high cubes.
[39:12.180 --> 39:17.440]  So, several of our friends have just cut 40-foot high cubes in half to get two 20-foot high cubes.
[39:17.600 --> 39:19.420]  And then it's, like, a little cheaper as well.
[39:21.800 --> 39:22.260]  Yeah?
[39:23.360 --> 39:30.400]  Did you consider, like, starting with an RV or a mobile home and hacking that instead of turning with a shipping container?
[39:32.780 --> 39:36.240]  The question was, did we consider just starting with an RV or a mobile home?
[39:36.980 --> 39:37.380]  Um...
[39:37.380 --> 39:38.120]  We considered it.
[39:38.300 --> 39:40.100]  I don't really like cars.
[39:41.080 --> 39:41.480]  Um...
[39:41.480 --> 39:42.120]  And...
[39:42.780 --> 39:44.620]  It didn't seem...
[39:44.620 --> 39:46.200]  Frankly, I think they look like shit.
[39:46.680 --> 39:47.080]  Um...
[39:47.760 --> 39:51.500]  And I didn't want to convert something like I had that falling down house.
[39:51.680 --> 39:54.420]  I think I was maybe overly sensitive to that.
[39:54.580 --> 39:55.240]  It's definitely an option.
[39:55.980 --> 39:56.380]  Um...
[39:56.380 --> 40:00.560]  One of the cool things about containers is you could do them much more subtly.
[40:00.560 --> 40:06.000]  So you could imagine this parked on a trailer with, like, my fancy press-a-button-to-dim-the-windows thing.
[40:06.160 --> 40:09.400]  And just looking more or less like a container when you're not there, right?
[40:09.520 --> 40:10.760]  Like, the window's shut.
[40:11.040 --> 40:11.200]  You know?
[40:11.280 --> 40:12.720]  Couple larger servos.
[40:13.220 --> 40:14.040]  Not too complicated.
[40:14.700 --> 40:15.060]  Um...
[40:15.060 --> 40:16.640]  You could imagine much more stealth modes.
[40:16.680 --> 40:18.480]  Whereas a camper looks more or less like a camper.
[40:18.640 --> 40:21.520]  If I was gonna do a vehicle-based one, I'd do what some other friends have done.
[40:21.700 --> 40:24.460]  And go really hardcore and do a minivan.
[40:25.120 --> 40:25.480]  Um...
[40:25.480 --> 40:26.260]  Those are, like...
[40:26.260 --> 40:30.820]  That's, like, the ultimate in covert mobile camp setup.
[40:31.280 --> 40:31.780]  Um...
[40:31.780 --> 40:32.220]  That's...
[40:32.220 --> 40:33.040]  Stealth camping.
[40:33.160 --> 40:33.480]  Yeah.
[40:33.740 --> 40:34.240]  Stealth camping.
[40:34.440 --> 40:35.360]  I'm not that hardcore.
[40:35.360 --> 40:37.380]  But, like, I aspire to it someday.
[40:38.980 --> 40:40.020]  So, um...
[40:40.020 --> 40:40.480]  I have...
[40:40.480 --> 40:42.300]  I have a van right now.
[40:42.780 --> 40:43.280]  Um...
[40:43.280 --> 40:45.480]  For getting to conferences and things like that.
[40:45.880 --> 40:46.160]  Um...
[40:46.160 --> 40:47.240]  Because I do a lot of that.
[40:47.460 --> 40:48.580]  But actually, um...
[40:48.580 --> 40:49.960]  My kid and I have a...
[40:49.960 --> 40:50.520]  A plan.
[40:50.920 --> 40:51.920]  Where, um...
[40:51.920 --> 40:55.680]  The van is going to become his bedroom on the top of a school bus.
[40:56.760 --> 40:57.320]  And...
[40:57.320 --> 41:01.880]  So, it's basically, like, all the things you talked about in terms of converting for off-grid.
[41:02.260 --> 41:02.780]  Um...
[41:02.780 --> 41:04.780]  But we're gonna actually, uh...
[41:04.780 --> 41:08.780]  Cut a hole between the ribs on one of the parts of the school bus.
[41:09.020 --> 41:09.580]  Uh...
[41:09.580 --> 41:10.800]  To make a...
[41:10.800 --> 41:11.580]  Uh...
[41:11.580 --> 41:12.060]  Stairway.
[41:12.300 --> 41:13.020]  Or actually a ladder.
[41:13.260 --> 41:14.560]  Up to his bedroom.
[41:14.860 --> 41:15.920]  That will be...
[41:15.920 --> 41:19.520]  The van body welded onto the school bus.
[41:20.800 --> 41:21.360]  That's...
[41:21.360 --> 41:22.640]  That's our hacker van.
[41:22.640 --> 41:23.460]  He...
[41:23.460 --> 41:26.460]  He has already named it the Pockyclips bus.
[41:27.700 --> 41:28.900]  That sounds awesome.
[41:29.060 --> 41:30.420]  A van on top of a school bus?
[41:30.580 --> 41:31.480]  That sounds totally badass.
[41:32.340 --> 41:33.920]  So, there's actually, uh...
[41:33.920 --> 41:35.820]  A really great community of, uh...
[41:35.820 --> 41:39.480]  Skoolie Converters families that do that.
[41:39.620 --> 41:39.720]  Is...
[41:39.720 --> 41:41.580]  Is there, like, a specific thing to Google for that?
[41:41.860 --> 41:42.840]  Skoolie Converters.
[41:43.020 --> 41:43.300]  Skoolie?
[41:43.480 --> 41:44.280]  S-C-H...
[41:44.280 --> 41:46.820]  S-K-O-O-L-I-E.
[41:46.820 --> 41:51.220]  S-K-O-O-L-I-E Converters is the School Bus Converter Community Suite.
[41:51.380 --> 41:51.720]  I'll check it out.
[41:53.220 --> 41:58.960]  I'd also say, consider, uh, somewhat more rural areas than being immediately in a city.
[41:59.120 --> 42:04.420]  I grew up in a rural area in upstate New York, but we were still near it to the commuter rail line.
[42:04.420 --> 42:09.440]  And, uh, I would describe code enforcement as non-existent where I grew up.
[42:09.800 --> 42:17.600]  And the city in upstate New York where I live now, they're extremely flexible is the best way I would describe code enforcement between those two.
[42:17.740 --> 42:26.320]  I've seen some rural areas where, if you're just speaking even with this town hall or people around there, what you're doing, people might even want to stop by and help you.
[42:26.320 --> 42:34.880]  Because depending on if it's, like, a rural area that does some heavy manufacturing, you may find people who know a crap load about welding.
[42:35.880 --> 42:38.380]  Yeah, that's a good point to consider rural areas.
[42:38.640 --> 42:41.460]  Um, we wanted to do it somewhere that we loved.
[42:41.620 --> 42:44.120]  Oakland's my favorite place in the U.S.
[42:44.200 --> 42:45.060]  anyways, that I've lived.
[42:45.500 --> 42:50.600]  Um, and also, like, we're slightly masochistic and wanted to do it because it would be hard.
[42:50.900 --> 43:01.300]  Like, if we can figure out how to navigate the bullshit there in, like, one of the most expensive and rapidly gentrifying neighborhoods in the country, then there should be no excuse not to be able to navigate it anywhere else in the world, as far as I'm concerned.
[43:01.600 --> 43:04.960]  So, yes, it would have been much more rational to do it somewhere more rural.
[43:06.060 --> 43:11.380]  So, philosophy-wide, when you're saying about moving, how do you decide when it's time to fight versus time to move?
[43:11.580 --> 43:13.220]  Like, there's two properties that I was looking at.
[43:13.520 --> 43:19.940]  Like, you buy the property, and it's two land on a road that's empty lots, but then you're stuck with it if it doesn't go through.
[43:20.720 --> 43:23.420]  Uh, how do you decide fight versus move?
[43:24.220 --> 43:28.760]  Um, first of all, in my experience, it's not necessarily that binary.
[43:28.960 --> 43:33.140]  Like, the one we own that we got kicked off of, uh, we're still fighting about.
[43:33.360 --> 43:34.420]  We're just taking a different approach.
[43:34.740 --> 43:46.800]  Uh, and it sounds corny, but, like, honestly, I think a lot of why some of these intentional communities in the middle of nowhere and even hackerspaces fail is that it stops being fun.
[43:46.960 --> 43:48.340]  Like, it should continue to be...
[43:48.340 --> 43:57.780]  Like, I consider it ridiculous that we have, like, 25 of our friends illegally living in an awesome warehouse with three kinds of beer on tap and fast Internet for $600 a month each.
[43:57.980 --> 43:59.580]  Like, that's ridiculous and entertaining.
[43:59.760 --> 44:09.460]  And if it stops being entertaining, then I'm not gonna be as excited about, like, you know, cleaning up the dog shit and the other crap that comes with keeping the community going.
[44:09.460 --> 44:11.080]  Um, yeah.
[44:11.280 --> 44:12.740]  So, like, it should continue to be fun.
[44:12.880 --> 44:15.540]  If it seems like it's gonna be more fun to just move, then do that.
[44:16.120 --> 44:22.620]  Um, another advantage of doing things like this in Oakland is, like, if we leave and have to sell the property, it's not gonna be the end of the world.
[44:22.720 --> 44:30.380]  Whereas, like, you know, Bumblef*ck, Iowa might be a little, little harder to, like, get all of our money back that we put into the property.
[44:31.820 --> 44:33.380]  Question for each of you.
[44:33.620 --> 44:40.320]  What is the single most, uh, single thing that you miss the most from having a regular apartment?
[44:40.900 --> 44:48.680]  Um, the question was what, each of us, what is the single most thing we miss the most about having a house or an apartment?
[44:49.200 --> 44:56.920]  Um, right now, I miss having a kitchen, but it's really only because I haven't built my kitchen yet.
[44:57.460 --> 45:06.060]  Um, other than that, I really, I mean, with the new warehouse, I miss having my house outside.
[45:06.240 --> 45:11.000]  Like, it was amazing having an outdoor shipping container community and coming home.
[45:11.140 --> 45:13.440]  And there's, like, always a bonfire when you get home.
[45:14.080 --> 45:19.820]  And the thing that's really great about these communities is I come home, all my friends are home, they're hanging out, they're drinking beer.
[45:19.900 --> 45:25.400]  If I don't feel like talking to them, I go into my house and have a lot of privacy.
[45:25.400 --> 45:30.560]  Um, I really don't miss living in a conventional house.
[45:31.560 --> 45:42.820]  Um, yeah, I mean, the closest I can come to something I miss is ability to have it only be mildly illegal for me to rent it out on Airbnb when I'm out of town.
[45:43.140 --> 45:47.000]  Um, but we'll probably just make the jump and do that anyway soon.
[45:54.300 --> 46:00.460]  The question was, what, each of us, what is the single most thing we miss the most about having a house or an apartment?
[46:00.980 --> 46:08.700]  Um, right now, I miss having a kitchen, but it's really only because I haven't built my kitchen yet.
[46:08.700 --> 46:17.820]  Um, other than that, I really... I mean, with the new warehouse, I miss having my house outside.
[46:18.040 --> 46:22.780]  Like, it was amazing having an outdoor shipping container community and coming home.
[46:22.780 --> 46:25.200]  And there's, like, always a bonfire when you get home.
[46:25.640 --> 46:31.580]  And the thing that's really great about these communities is I come home, all my friends are home, they're hanging out, they're drinking beer.
[46:31.700 --> 46:37.200]  If I don't feel like talking with them, I go into my house and have a lot of privacy.
[46:37.540 --> 46:42.300]  Um, I really don't miss living in a conventional house.
[46:43.380 --> 46:54.600]  Um, yeah, I mean, the closest I can come to something I miss is ability to have it only be mildly illegal for me to rent it out on Airbnb when I'm out of town.
[46:54.920 --> 46:58.780]  Um, but we'll probably just make the jump and do that anyway soon.
[47:01.920 --> 47:02.400]  Yeah?
[47:02.640 --> 47:02.880]  Yeah.
[47:03.280 --> 47:10.560]  Uh, I'm from Montreal, so I'm wondering what the limits are in terms of weather and climate, especially during the wintertime, are...
[47:11.320 --> 47:15.120]  Um, so Montreal, what the limits on climate, especially in the wintertime, are.
[47:15.240 --> 47:18.420]  So when we put in 2x4s, we do R13 insulation all over.
[47:18.640 --> 47:23.480]  Uh, when you include the reflective paint, which also, you know, helps reflect things back in.
[47:23.680 --> 47:28.620]  Um, and the fact that it's a sealed steel container, I would argue we're closer to R20.
[47:29.040 --> 47:34.940]  If you want to get fancy, you can put in 2x6s and then put in, like, R30 or whatever you want.
[47:35.060 --> 47:36.400]  You can also do closed cell foam.
[47:36.880 --> 47:41.820]  Uh, again, like, I would, you know, you can buy a container and do it in R4.
[47:41.820 --> 47:45.580]  Uh, with 2x4s and R13.
[47:45.860 --> 47:53.340]  And then if it's too cold, you can put in something thicker and you're out, like, a couple hundred bucks to put in the next layer of insulation.
[47:53.720 --> 47:55.860]  Uh, there are on-demand thermostats.
[47:55.860 --> 47:59.540]  That's, that's, like, right, I mean, we're in California.
[47:59.740 --> 48:02.480]  Like, you could literally just live outside all year in Northern California.
[48:02.620 --> 48:06.280]  And it's, like, you might get a little chilly sometimes, but that's about it.
[48:06.420 --> 48:08.020]  So it's a very mild climate challenge.
[48:08.300 --> 48:14.560]  Um, I would recommend propane over, unfortunately, unless you put in, like, a really big solar array.
[48:15.000 --> 48:17.100]  Particularly in the winter when you're not gonna have as much sun anyways.
[48:17.180 --> 48:19.100]  I would recommend going with, like, a propane heater.
[48:19.100 --> 48:22.860]  We have a little, get it for something, like, twice the size and you will never be cooled.
[48:23.060 --> 48:26.380]  Like, we would wake up hot with our propane heater when it was outside.
[48:27.140 --> 48:31.060]  I mean, the other thing, too, is you're heating 160 square feet.
[48:31.180 --> 48:35.860]  It takes about two minutes for your entire house to get to a temperature that you're comfortable in.
[48:37.560 --> 48:37.960]  Yeah?
[48:38.180 --> 48:45.860]  Um, do you know anyone or have any experience with people putting these, uh, modular shipping container house underground?
[48:47.460 --> 48:52.420]  Uh, there's a book from the 70s called The Underground House that I would check out.
[48:52.640 --> 48:53.500]  I do not personally.
[48:53.740 --> 49:09.100]  One of the crazier people doing conversions who I visited in Northern California, where certain high-value, uh, high-subtlety crops are traditionally grown, claims that a large proportion of his business is installing these underground.
[49:09.340 --> 49:15.120]  He had, like, some weird access hatch that, I guess, looks like a septic tank lid or something from the air.
[49:15.120 --> 49:17.020]  So, people are definitely doing it.
[49:17.460 --> 49:19.720]  Um, yeah, that's about all.
[49:19.820 --> 49:25.540]  I think he flipped some of them over because the floor can handle more load than the roof.
[49:25.740 --> 49:28.460]  And if you're burying it, that's, I guess, that's gonna be your main load.
[49:28.700 --> 49:31.580]  That's gonna have more force from the ground compacting down on it.
[49:31.860 --> 49:34.260]  So, I'd experiment a little more carefully with that one.
[49:40.700 --> 49:43.560]  Yeah, that's a good point.
[49:43.780 --> 49:47.020]  Uh, if you put it underground, there's less as in no issue with heating and cooling.
[49:47.600 --> 49:54.440]  Uh, average annual temperature is the temperature of the ground once you get below, like, I think it's 18 inches.
[49:54.440 --> 49:59.820]  So, you can, you know, just Google, like, average temperature somewhere to figure out what ground temperature would be.
[50:00.020 --> 50:03.040]  If that's something you consider comfortable, then you don't need any insulation.
[50:03.480 --> 50:05.920]  It's holding underground houses in the Mojave Desert.
[50:07.680 --> 50:08.080]  Sweet.
[50:10.220 --> 50:13.120]  What about rust when you go underground?
[50:13.780 --> 50:15.160]  Uh, what about rust underground?
[50:15.480 --> 50:17.940]  I haven't done it from the little bit in that book that I read.
[50:18.260 --> 50:22.600]  Uh, this dude was recommending surrounding everything with pond liner, HDPE.
[50:22.840 --> 50:28.520]  It's like this thick, it's like a bike tire, but, like, even more waterproof and, like, twice as thick.
[50:28.700 --> 50:36.220]  So, like, anything, like, if I was doing a garden on the roof or something, anything else where you're holding water against it, I'd do that as well.
[50:36.220 --> 50:40.660]  Like, put a, put a, you can even use, like, a Tyvek vapor barrier or something else.
[50:41.160 --> 50:42.780]  And how about the regular ones?
[50:43.960 --> 50:46.160]  Like, the white paint, how did you repaint it?
[50:46.380 --> 50:51.020]  Uh, the white paint, I haven't repainted it, and that one was outside for, like, three years.
[50:51.560 --> 50:52.820]  Um, yeah.
[50:54.900 --> 51:03.820]  Um, so you talked sort of about this balance between, like, it's cheaper to just sometimes buy new from, like, Home Depot versus who's, like, maybe more expensive or reused materials.
[51:03.820 --> 51:07.460]  Um, like, what do you think the trade-off is around, like, say, environmental cost or some of that?
[51:07.600 --> 51:10.860]  Like, I know a lot of construction materials are environmentally friendly.
[51:11.080 --> 51:13.720]  And even with, like, insulation and stuff like that, too, there are trade-offs.
[51:13.860 --> 51:16.940]  Like, do you, what do you think about that?
[51:17.020 --> 51:19.280]  Or is there a way that you want to be more environmentally friendly?
[51:19.280 --> 51:20.800]  Or are you not as concerned about those issues?
[51:21.040 --> 51:21.620]  Like, yeah.
[51:26.380 --> 51:35.640]  I think partly because when we first started building, we wanted to document it and make it feasible for everybody to build one.
[51:35.640 --> 51:44.280]  So we are using readily available materials, um, with a little bit less focus on, um, environmental stuff.
[51:45.060 --> 51:51.260]  But I think in general, like, tiny house, like, you're reducing your carbon footprint so much by what you're doing.
[51:51.460 --> 51:52.940]  But then...
[51:52.940 --> 51:54.520]  Yeah, I mean, like, I don't know.
[51:54.660 --> 51:58.500]  There's a lot of, oh, we're so screwed because embedded energy and everything.
[51:58.500 --> 52:03.360]  Like, if I cannot build something out of cement and get the same performance, I won't.
[52:03.460 --> 52:07.480]  Other than that, like, the price doesn't seem worth it.
[52:07.580 --> 52:12.320]  I can make one of these and happily sell it for, like, under 30K.
[52:12.640 --> 52:18.100]  Like, including paying people to help me and being really happy with how they're treated and the materials I use.
[52:18.420 --> 52:25.780]  Uh, if I, even, like, switching the insulation, like, you go to recycled denim or something, then you're at, like, 5 to 10x the cost.
[52:25.780 --> 52:32.320]  I wish it was more inexpensive, and I'm definitely contributing to the problem by not, you know, being more demand for it.
[52:32.580 --> 52:37.280]  But until, until there's, like, I mean, like, the bamboo flooring has crossed that threshold for me.
[52:37.440 --> 52:46.400]  I'll let, I'll let people building big shitty houses get prices more sustainable materials down, and then, like, I think you're right that we have, like, an obligation to look at that over time.
[52:47.700 --> 52:48.880]  Are you, we're out of time.
[52:49.700 --> 52:50.100]  Time?
[52:50.300 --> 52:50.920]  We're out of time.
[52:51.760 --> 52:52.160]  Cool.
[52:52.340 --> 52:52.880]  Thanks, everybody.
[52:53.280 --> 52:54.060]  Uh, find us afterwards.
[52:54.300 --> 52:54.640]  Email us.