[00:00.790 --> 00:07.370] My name is dispelling those virus rumors that you get in your email saying, you know, don't open attachments with this name. [00:07.710 --> 00:09.050] Oh, the bull. [00:10.630 --> 00:13.030] So I phoned him up and he just loves this. [00:13.250 --> 00:24.770] So he ponies up the 35 bucks and puts out this huge press release to every antivirus company he knows, to every media contact he knows, just basically making fun of NAI. [00:24.770 --> 00:28.750] Their stock price had just dropped a few weeks before. [00:28.930 --> 00:33.070] So they're saying, oh, poor network associates, they can't even pay for a domain name anymore. [00:37.310 --> 00:46.290] Rob had basically in this press release said, don't worry, NAI, about sending us the 35 bucks, just send it to Jerry's Kids Muscular Dystrophy Research. [00:47.030 --> 00:50.690] Well, basically it went a little better. [00:51.290 --> 00:56.490] Gene Hodges, the head guy for the McAfee division of NAI, said, okay, I'll do you one better. [00:56.690 --> 00:57.930] He sent a thousand dollar U.S. [00:58.050 --> 00:59.910] check to Muscular Dystrophy Research. [01:00.690 --> 01:07.510] And I have to admit, that was a really good feeling to know that there had been this donation for a stupid 35 dollar stunt. [01:07.990 --> 01:11.550] You know, probably fun with them in the coming years. [01:12.670 --> 01:20.130] The funny part is, when they sent a letter to Rob Rosenberger with a nice little thank you, they sent it 11 cents postage due. [01:22.890 --> 01:24.550] Sort of a last little screw you. [01:29.400 --> 01:35.380] Then we come to Symantec, makers of Norton Antivirus, PC Anywhere, and umpteen other products. [01:37.060 --> 01:39.860] Their domain renewal came up for Norton.com, I checked it. [01:40.500 --> 01:42.620] Gee, they're one day away from renewal. [01:42.920 --> 01:44.400] Nobody's paid it up yet. [01:44.940 --> 01:48.760] So it goes, expired, one day, two day, three days. [01:49.200 --> 01:51.260] Holy crap, nobody's processing an invoice. [01:51.900 --> 01:53.540] They're leaving this thing a little long. [01:54.260 --> 02:02.360] So this time, after upping my limit, I had pointed out the 35 bucks, and sent a nice little email to the administrative contact. [02:02.360 --> 02:03.280] And the WHOIS record. [02:04.040 --> 02:07.060] Two hours later, I get this rather interesting phone call in my cell. [02:07.700 --> 02:13.020] Uh, I got the manager of the, uh, I forget what her exact title was here. [02:13.660 --> 02:16.640] Uh, Director IT Web Management, Suzanne Bray. [02:17.640 --> 02:20.580] Uh, saying, oh, thank you, thank you for doing this. [02:21.160 --> 02:23.800] Um, what do we, you know, what can we do for you? [02:23.900 --> 02:25.580] This was a great service you did for us. [02:25.640 --> 02:26.420] You saved our butts. [02:27.160 --> 02:33.180] Um, I said, okay, well, first off, 35 bucks, um, I don't need it. [02:33.340 --> 02:34.120] Send it to the Red Cross. [02:35.220 --> 02:38.960] The next thing they said was, well, can we get you any product or anything? [02:39.240 --> 02:40.500] You know, can we do anything for you? [02:40.580 --> 02:41.760] Like, how can we thank you? [02:42.180 --> 02:43.680] Like, well, let's see. [02:44.580 --> 02:47.540] OpenBSD user, most of your stuff's not going to do me much use. [02:47.760 --> 02:53.340] So, while I'm talking to them, I, you know, quickly go to their website and say, you know, see what their most expensive product is. [02:53.340 --> 02:57.100] Like, well, I would also like a letter to put on my wall. [02:57.760 --> 03:01.000] And I happen to have that letter here, which is an interesting read. [03:01.400 --> 03:04.160] You know, a letter just basically saying thank you, and, you know, here's what we've done. [03:04.600 --> 03:06.560] Uh, really nice sitting on the wall there. [03:06.780 --> 03:08.760] And we also got one like that out of Network Associates. [03:09.340 --> 03:09.800] That's it. [03:10.160 --> 03:12.460] So I asked for 35 bucks for Red Cross. [03:12.920 --> 03:13.940] The letter... [03:13.940 --> 03:21.660] Oh, gee, if you just happen to want to send one of your really, you know, $16,000 firewalls to the address that you sent the letter, it wouldn't be refused. [03:23.300 --> 03:24.740] They sent the damn thing. [03:27.760 --> 03:28.700] I have... [03:32.210 --> 03:35.930] As you can tell, my network is, you know, really highly advanced there in my rack. [03:36.650 --> 03:40.150] Um, so I have a $16,000 American firewall. [03:40.850 --> 03:43.830] Um, that I can't even use on my cable modem. [03:44.270 --> 03:49.390] Uh, so if anybody has any good suggestions as to, like, where I should put this thing on permanent loan, it's... [03:50.130 --> 03:51.450] It's NFR, so... [03:51.450 --> 03:54.130] It's not for resale, and I'm trying to abide by their licensing. [03:55.750 --> 03:57.430] Ha, I knew you guys would. [03:57.830 --> 04:07.690] Uh, I'm actually thinking, like, Indy Media Center or something like that, but I just need somebody that actually knows how to run this stupid thing, because they also want you to take a, you know, $1500 course to learn how to use it. [04:09.230 --> 04:09.590] So... [04:12.820 --> 04:13.320] What's that? [04:15.940 --> 04:17.300] They're on eBay for a donation. [04:17.480 --> 04:19.120] Well, all the licensing is still in my name. [04:19.240 --> 04:20.020] That's the only problem. [04:22.260 --> 04:22.620] So... [04:23.200 --> 04:23.560] Um... [04:23.560 --> 04:24.400] EFF, yeah. [04:24.800 --> 04:25.600] See if they can let it... [04:25.600 --> 04:27.320] Or, actually, their Canadian counterpart. [04:27.700 --> 04:28.420] I forget the acronym. [04:29.800 --> 04:30.200] Um... [04:30.200 --> 04:31.360] JelloBiafra.net. [04:31.480 --> 04:33.320] That was one of the ones that, uh... [04:33.320 --> 04:34.360] was mentioned last night. [04:36.100 --> 04:36.500] Um... [04:36.500 --> 04:37.600] I'll just go over it again. [04:38.240 --> 04:45.020] At Jello's H2K speech, he said, you know, other people own my name online, and I don't know what they're gonna do with it. [04:45.640 --> 04:49.480] Uh, you know, try to extort money, or, you know, besmirch his good name, we're not sure. [04:50.380 --> 04:50.780] So... [04:50.780 --> 04:54.220] That sort of stuck with me, and I'm like, thinking, hmm, okay. [04:54.800 --> 04:56.660] We'll have to see if we can remedy this situation. [04:57.180 --> 05:02.540] So, you know, mark the domains, put them in a PDA, see when they're gonna expire. [05:02.840 --> 05:03.900] Just keep an eye on them. [05:04.760 --> 05:07.060] Well, the .com was the first one up. [05:07.340 --> 05:08.300] The guy renewed it. [05:08.680 --> 05:09.340] Okay, fine. [05:10.220 --> 05:11.500] The .net expired. [05:12.880 --> 05:14.360] Expired, and expired, and expired. [05:14.920 --> 05:19.140] Expired for about three months before they finally, uh, deleted from their database. [05:19.900 --> 05:24.660] So I pulled up the administrative contact for Alternative Tentacles, Jello's, uh... [05:25.720 --> 05:26.500] record label. [05:27.400 --> 05:29.540] Called the, uh, general manager, Uli. [05:30.320 --> 05:32.000] Very general manager, I might add. [05:33.300 --> 05:34.140] He, uh... [05:34.140 --> 05:37.260] And left a message with him saying, hey, this domain's available, grab it. [05:37.720 --> 05:38.660] And so they did. [05:38.760 --> 05:43.300] A couple of days later, uh, JelloBiafra.net is now pointing at the Alternative Tentacles site. [05:43.960 --> 05:45.500] So we got that one back for him. [05:47.560 --> 05:49.440] The .org was a little more interesting. [05:50.380 --> 05:52.560] Uh, Uli doesn't check his messages that often. [05:53.380 --> 05:56.860] Uh, up until Monday, this had been on sale for about two months. [05:57.840 --> 06:01.780] So, obviously, if most people in the crowd here weren't watching it like I was. [06:02.600 --> 06:08.780] Um, since I was gonna be talking about it here, I decided I didn't want to give you guys ideas and have somebody get it on their wireless and grab it right away. [06:08.960 --> 06:09.880] So I grabbed it myself. [06:10.860 --> 06:13.380] Um, I didn't know that Jello was gonna be here. [06:13.540 --> 06:19.460] I looked on the 2600 site just before I came here and like, oh, gee, JelloBiafra is gonna be here. [06:20.140 --> 06:20.940] Perfect opportunity. [06:22.040 --> 06:28.420] So I just, uh, worked out something with Lazlow there and, uh, did a little impromptu presentation before his speech last night. [06:30.920 --> 06:31.320] So... [06:31.320 --> 06:31.540] Yeah. [06:32.020 --> 06:38.240] Um, so he's now got the .com, was, uh, originally donated to him by the, uh, previous owners. [06:38.460 --> 06:40.220] So he's now got the .net and now the .org. [06:40.700 --> 06:42.380] So, everything is right in the Land of Oz. [06:44.640 --> 06:45.100] Thank you. [06:47.640 --> 06:48.100] What's that? [06:50.120 --> 06:51.060] Yeah, General Foods. [06:52.920 --> 06:53.280] Ooh! [06:53.700 --> 06:55.460] I don't think I want to be taking them on at the moment. [06:55.900 --> 06:58.620] Um, though I do like a suggestion of the Dead Kennedys ones. [06:59.080 --> 07:00.240] Let's see what I can do with those. [07:01.480 --> 07:08.440] Um, another thing that I haven't personally done, but I think is a good, sort of fits in with this whole thing, is abandoned domains. [07:08.660 --> 07:12.980] Or domains that, you know, have some applicability but aren't owned by the proper trademark holders. [07:13.780 --> 07:16.160] Uh, one case of this was GATT.org. [07:16.720 --> 07:20.680] GATT was the General Agreement on Trade and Tariffs, I think it was. [07:20.960 --> 07:24.740] The, the predecessor to the World Trade Organization that we all, you know, know and love. [07:25.240 --> 07:32.500] Um, the guys called, um, a group called RT Mark bought the domain, but they gave it to the Yes Men. [07:32.880 --> 07:34.780] I don't know if you've heard of any of their stuff. [07:35.680 --> 07:40.880] Um, well, the Yes Men run the GATT.org, and it looks surprisingly similar to the WTO site. [07:42.160 --> 07:50.380] However, if you read into the site a little bit, you can definitely tell it's not their, you know, usual type of, uh, site, or material that you'd see on the site. [07:51.300 --> 07:55.820] Um, through this site, they've been running for about a year and a half, I think it was. [07:56.400 --> 08:06.960] Um, they've been invited to at least three different conferences by people who thought that, gee, you know, GATT.org, it's the WTO, we'll invite somebody from there to speak for our conference. [08:07.560 --> 08:12.220] With some various interesting things, including a three foot long golden phallus. [08:12.940 --> 08:16.760] Um, check RT Mark and GATT.org for the details on that. [08:16.760 --> 08:31.120] But, uh, the really interesting thing that they did recently, um, was they had successfully dissolved the WTO, and decided to reform it in a more kind and gentle type of organization for, uh, helping the world poor. [08:31.700 --> 08:37.100] Uh, they basically sent out a press release from GATT.org saying, yep, we're dissolving the WTO. [08:38.180 --> 08:41.800] Now, normally you'd sort of think that this is kind of a strange measure. [08:41.980 --> 08:45.200] Well, um, I've got that guy's name here. [08:46.760 --> 08:57.480] Alliance MP John Duncan from the Canadian Parliament, probably not the best representation of Canadian, got up in the Canadian Parliament and says, I've just read that the WTO is going to be dissolved. [08:57.600 --> 09:00.300] How is this going to hurt our softwood lumber exports? [09:01.700 --> 09:07.600] And everybody in Parliament sort of looking at him like, okay, what the heck are you talking about, guy? [09:07.860 --> 09:15.300] And they just give some boilerplate answers saying, you know, I have no idea what they're talking about, but we'll look into this. [09:15.780 --> 09:17.920] Um, that's quite amusing. [09:19.460 --> 09:20.960] How am I actually doing this? [09:21.100 --> 09:22.600] It is stupidly simple. [09:22.840 --> 09:25.260] I'm surprised that not many other people are doing it. [09:25.880 --> 09:34.840] You take five minutes a day, do our WHOIS or through network solutions, WHOIS look up, and, uh, just look up the domain records. [09:34.840 --> 09:40.000] You know, on a Unix box you should have WHOIS, You know, WHOIS domain name. [09:40.460 --> 09:42.380] And it will come up with the expiry. [09:43.360 --> 09:47.560] Just mark that down, PDA, put it on your calendar, you know, tattoo it to your butt, whatever. [09:48.360 --> 09:50.420] And just check it when it comes up. [09:50.660 --> 09:52.880] It takes two seconds, not a big deal. [09:53.620 --> 10:00.260] I'm sure somebody can whip up a quick Perl script to, you know, double check on certain dates if the records changed at all. [10:01.000 --> 10:03.720] Um, but it's really easy to find these things. [10:03.720 --> 10:05.920] And, you know, case in point was semantic. [10:06.320 --> 10:09.820] I didn't notice, but there was other domains besides norton.com that expired. [10:10.300 --> 10:15.280] Because they have over a hundred of them, and they were switching to a new system for administering them. [10:16.160 --> 10:20.040] And it was sort of in flux at the moment, so they completely missed the ball around. [10:21.060 --> 10:26.040] The next thing you do, if you manage to pony up the 35 bucks, call them up. [10:26.340 --> 10:28.480] You know, they've got administrative contacts there for a reason. [10:28.920 --> 10:29.940] Uh, just this sort of thing. [10:31.160 --> 10:32.580] Don't try to blackmail them. [10:32.580 --> 10:38.500] I mean, I'm not a legal expert, but if you say, you know, I just paid for your domain, you owe me all of this stuff. [10:39.180 --> 10:40.600] They're probably not going to like you too much. [10:40.600 --> 10:44.400] And these are guys that have entire floors of their building devoted to lawyers. [10:44.980 --> 10:47.880] Um, I certainly wouldn't want to be dealing with all those guys. [10:49.600 --> 10:58.100] Um, what I found works is you basically attempt to just guilt a donation, saying, oh, gee, you know, the, uh... [10:58.100 --> 11:03.080] Um, you know, when I did this for Network Associates, they paid a little bit extra to it. [11:03.340 --> 11:08.640] You know, if you want to look good, you might want to, you know, just make their own decision, but sort of put the pressure on them. [11:08.640 --> 11:17.680] I also, with Norton.com, said that, hey, you know, I've got the $35 to Red Cross, but, you know, your competition is sent a little more. [11:18.200 --> 11:20.360] You don't want to look worse than your competition now, do you? [11:23.660 --> 11:26.000] Um, why did I put disinformation on there? [11:27.040 --> 11:30.020] Do not do PowerPoint presentations at 3 o'clock in the morning. [11:30.900 --> 11:34.360] I got about a week's notice that I was going to be doing this, so... [11:36.740 --> 11:40.520] Uh, problems I've run into are 10-year domains. [11:40.860 --> 11:43.520] They recently expanded how long you can renew a domain. [11:43.740 --> 11:44.780] It used to be 2 years. [11:45.240 --> 11:46.960] Now they can do 10 years. [11:46.960 --> 11:50.460] And I kind of doubt I'll be doing this in, you know, 2011. [11:51.260 --> 11:54.080] So, you know, Network Associates is probably a little bit safe. [11:54.500 --> 12:00.140] But, you know, people are still renewing for 1-2 years and just forgetting about it. [12:01.120 --> 12:05.240] Especially with a lot of small companies because they don't have a direct administrative person. [12:05.640 --> 12:14.660] Or large companies because you get a lot of churn in the employees and nobody gets the letter that Network Solutions or whoever sends out. [12:15.640 --> 12:18.020] So, another interesting little side thing. [12:18.480 --> 12:21.100] Who remembers the whole Verizon sucks issue? [12:21.440 --> 12:24.460] You know, we had the gentleman earlier that owned Verizon Eats Poop. [12:25.900 --> 12:26.540] He... [12:28.060 --> 12:33.440] Long story short, 2600 wanted to buy verizonsucks.com. [12:33.820 --> 12:38.960] Well, Verizon took the step ahead and registered Verizon Sucks and about 700 other domains. [12:40.280 --> 12:44.320] So, 2600 decides, okay, we'll just get Verizon. [12:44.460 --> 12:45.000] It really sucks. [12:45.580 --> 12:48.220] And got a little nasty gram in the mail and all this stuff. [12:48.400 --> 12:50.260] Well, Verizon... [12:50.260 --> 12:57.120] I don't want to know the mailman that delivers their mail, but they registered all 700 of those domains at once. [12:57.380 --> 13:04.440] So, they would have gotten 700 letters from Network Solutions saying, please renew your domain name. [13:04.780 --> 13:07.540] And I'm not talking about, you know, those fake invoice ones they send out. [13:09.560 --> 13:12.840] But they actually ignored that for almost three months. [13:13.060 --> 13:18.360] And it was the end of May before they finally had paid the renewal line. [13:18.540 --> 13:22.520] So, I very reasonably could have had verizonsucks.com. [13:23.740 --> 13:27.440] That's the other problem I've run into is the fact that Network Solutions is a bunch of crooks. [13:27.440 --> 13:31.660] They break their own rules and don't delete domains when they're supposed to. [13:32.300 --> 13:38.020] I've seen domains still that are expired back in November that have not been deleted. [13:38.020 --> 13:39.240] And I can't pick them up. [13:39.240 --> 13:40.580] I can't buy them. [13:41.320 --> 13:42.340] Which really sucks. [13:42.400 --> 13:46.260] There's actually a thing in 2600 about that last issue, I think. [13:46.880 --> 13:49.580] A reference to Skullbox.com from Antitrust. [13:49.820 --> 13:52.460] But that's been expired for almost two years, I think. [13:53.220 --> 13:54.420] It's just ridiculous. [13:56.040 --> 13:57.060] WIPO is the other thing. [13:58.680 --> 14:00.500] The Universal Domain... [14:02.240 --> 14:03.280] God, I need more sleep. [14:04.680 --> 14:12.460] Universal Domain Dispute Resolution Policy generally does not favor people, you know, individuals that buy these things. [14:12.680 --> 14:15.440] They tend to go towards the companies a little more. [14:16.160 --> 14:17.100] I'm not a lawyer. [14:17.260 --> 14:18.180] I don't have a lawyer. [14:18.540 --> 14:20.380] I really don't want to deal with WIPO. [14:20.660 --> 14:22.580] So, you know, pick your targets carefully. [14:24.720 --> 14:26.980] So, target... who should you be targeting? [14:27.380 --> 14:28.960] You know, people who are worthy of this. [14:29.300 --> 14:31.980] I mean, you need to pick a target that makes sense. [14:32.280 --> 14:34.160] You know, not just Mom and Pop's Bakery. [14:34.720 --> 14:36.480] You gotta get something in there. [14:36.740 --> 14:40.240] Well, whoever's suing 2600 this week seems to be a good idea. [14:41.260 --> 14:45.400] Lord knows Emmanuel's not going to be stopping what he's doing, and there's going to be more lawsuits, unfortunately. [14:45.760 --> 14:49.800] Well, those guys, you know, you need to be able to screw with them a little bit. [14:50.580 --> 14:52.860] You know, MPA members, RA members. [14:54.420 --> 14:55.840] Metallica really deserves it. [14:56.920 --> 14:58.400] Dead Kennedy should also be in there. [14:59.340 --> 15:03.040] But, you know, if there's some Chinese domain, or... [15:04.680 --> 15:06.020] Spammers would be another one. [15:06.020 --> 15:10.220] You know, any of these companies that are selling software to do spamming, or just... [15:10.760 --> 15:20.140] Anybody that has a morally good reason should be just watching them, just sort of standing in the background snooping on them. [15:20.880 --> 15:22.520] And where should you send donations? [15:22.520 --> 15:24.560] I mean, that's really... [15:24.560 --> 15:25.580] Up to you. [15:26.260 --> 15:28.700] You know, EFF, Red Cross, whoever. [15:29.240 --> 15:34.180] I mean, JelloBiafra makes sense for a place to donate some money to. [15:34.980 --> 15:35.420] It's... [15:35.420 --> 15:36.520] You know, sort of leave that up to you. [15:39.040 --> 15:39.920] And, uh... [15:39.920 --> 15:48.100] Other ways, you know, sort of like domain stalking, I thought, that might be kind of interesting is things like expired SSL certificates. [15:49.160 --> 15:58.780] There's been a lot of press on occasion where, you know, guys like Symantec will forget to renew their enterprise security certificate for their enterprise.semantec.com site. [16:00.480 --> 16:06.380] It's unbelievable when, you know, the people that are supposed to be protecting us from... [16:06.380 --> 16:06.960] Well, us. [16:07.900 --> 16:09.140] Forget to... [16:10.320 --> 16:15.840] Forget to renew their basic security certificates. [16:17.540 --> 16:22.740] You know, ISS just a couple of days ago, Symantec, F-Secure have all done it. [16:22.940 --> 16:24.680] I'm sure Microsoft has on occasion. [16:25.940 --> 16:27.220] You know, it's ridiculous. [16:28.000 --> 16:28.960] And one thing to add. [16:29.800 --> 16:30.680] Apple.de. [16:30.980 --> 16:32.480] Has anybody heard anything about that? [16:34.560 --> 16:35.720] I heard some rumors. [16:35.900 --> 16:38.440] Like, I've been unplugged for like the last week, so I haven't heard. [16:38.600 --> 16:39.400] But somebody grabbed... [16:39.400 --> 16:43.140] They forgot to renew Apple.de in Germany. [16:43.500 --> 16:47.160] And somebody swiped that and pointed to like some toner cartridge site or something. [16:47.480 --> 16:50.220] So it shows you that, you know, it's pretty much everybody. [16:50.500 --> 16:51.340] You cannot... [16:51.340 --> 16:52.860] So international sites too. [16:53.140 --> 16:56.940] You know, look at the country TLDs and see what you can find. [16:57.720 --> 16:59.420] And there's just some references in that. [17:00.420 --> 17:03.340] I'm not a public speaker, so I had no clue if I was going to fill this spot. [17:04.660 --> 17:05.020] So... [17:05.020 --> 17:07.360] Sort of like to open it up to some Q&A. [17:07.520 --> 17:11.880] If anybody's got any suggestions on other ways they can think of to have some legal fun with a company. [17:13.040 --> 17:16.680] Especially since they're beating us over the head with their intellectual property rights. [17:16.900 --> 17:20.400] It would be kind of interesting to, you know, buy them and beat them back with it. [17:23.500 --> 17:23.860] Suggestions? [17:23.860 --> 17:24.220] Comments? [17:24.420 --> 17:26.200] Or does somebody want to like throw something in my head? [17:39.020 --> 17:40.860] Oh, those are some of the ones that I'm monitoring. [17:41.080 --> 17:42.880] It's like, you know, ptcruiser.com and such. [17:43.040 --> 17:44.060] Those would be amazing. [17:45.080 --> 17:48.140] For me, I use a register called look.ca. [17:48.400 --> 17:50.860] It's a Canadian register and it's 20 bucks Canadian. [17:51.360 --> 17:54.180] It's what, like 30 cents American or something right now? [17:55.520 --> 17:59.960] So, you don't even have to go through Network Solutions and pay their 35 bucks yank. [18:01.040 --> 18:02.260] You know, go through somebody else. [18:04.660 --> 18:07.520] I go through it through easyhosting.com. [18:08.020 --> 18:11.060] It's Look Communications out of Ontario. [18:11.860 --> 18:13.240] It's 20 bucks Canadian. [18:13.680 --> 18:14.140] It's 13. [18:16.200 --> 18:18.520] But, you know, case in point with Norton. [18:19.460 --> 18:25.340] Those guys, it was 35 bucks out of pocket for, you know, I got on the register. [18:25.780 --> 18:28.380] I got a few email inquiries. [18:28.500 --> 18:29.640] I didn't really pump it up much. [18:29.640 --> 18:34.180] I got $16,000 firewall sent to me for a 35 bucks stunt. [18:34.480 --> 18:37.600] You know, that's a pretty good turnaround on that. [18:42.930 --> 18:45.770] You were mentioning about taking over for spammers. [18:46.830 --> 18:51.370] I suggest that people also investigate the other way around. [18:51.950 --> 18:55.670] Try banging in minor misspellings of lots and lots of companies. [18:55.670 --> 18:56.870] And see where they point. [18:57.310 --> 19:00.490] Like, uh, Guinnessrecords.com that 2600's got. [19:00.930 --> 19:03.030] Well, an awful lot of them point overseas. [19:03.810 --> 19:05.770] And I find this to be a disturbing trend. [19:06.590 --> 19:06.750] Yeah. [19:07.010 --> 19:10.930] Well, that's what I'm kind of hoping to start here is that if you guys can all just sort of watch this thing. [19:11.050 --> 19:16.210] You just have this, like, legion of people that are just catching these guys when their accounting department fails and doesn't pay their invoices. [19:17.570 --> 19:21.430] The fact that a lot of it goes across the pond is sort of worrisome. [19:21.570 --> 19:22.310] What are they up to? [19:23.030 --> 19:24.670] In the UK and such. [19:28.480 --> 19:29.580] Hey, fellow Canadian. [19:29.980 --> 19:30.220] Hey. [19:31.320 --> 19:32.740] Do you do this for hire? [19:33.600 --> 19:34.400] Uh, no. [19:34.660 --> 19:35.720] I do this in my basement. [19:36.060 --> 19:36.300] Okay. [19:36.300 --> 19:37.360] When I'm really, really bored. [19:37.980 --> 19:39.320] That's how this whole thing started. [19:39.660 --> 19:40.600] I own... [19:40.600 --> 19:43.280] I can't believe I'm actually speaking about this stuff. [19:44.020 --> 19:49.740] I own my company .ca and I want the .com. [19:50.060 --> 19:55.700] Uh, I noticed that it wasn't being used and it expired on June 22nd of this year. [19:55.940 --> 19:58.220] Uh, but I still can't register it. [19:58.320 --> 20:01.980] How long do I have to wait or does that vary depending on the register? [20:02.360 --> 20:05.060] Uh, generally, rules are 45 days at... [20:05.640 --> 20:09.380] As soon as the thing comes up for renewal, it still works. [20:09.380 --> 20:13.360] Uh, depends on the company, but usually it's, uh, for a month. [20:13.600 --> 20:16.040] It still works, but, you know, they're sending you notices. [20:16.560 --> 20:20.720] After that, um, they might unplug it, others won't. [20:20.840 --> 20:23.840] But generally, after 45 days, you can assume that they'll, uh, unplug it. [20:24.020 --> 20:25.060] Is it through Network Solutions? [20:25.700 --> 20:26.740] I'm not sure. [20:27.180 --> 20:29.800] Okay, you might want to check which, uh, who's hosting the record. [20:30.520 --> 20:30.720] Okay. [20:30.800 --> 20:37.660] If it's Network Solutions, they don't like the fact that other people can, you know, wait for a domain to expire and then register it with somebody else. [20:37.660 --> 20:43.420] So they basically break their own rules and hold on to these domains for as long as they possibly can. [20:43.660 --> 20:46.180] You know, sometimes like three, four, five months. [20:46.560 --> 20:53.360] Just constantly nagging the company to renew it, just because they don't want to let that $35 renewal go to another company. [20:54.120 --> 20:56.680] Can I call Network Solutions and say, I want it instead? [20:57.060 --> 20:58.540] Um, they'll tell you where to stick it. [20:59.280 --> 21:01.900] So, uh, talking to them is pretty useless. [21:01.900 --> 21:06.320] There's actually, uh, a good article in the last 2600, uh... [21:06.320 --> 21:12.000] I honestly cannot remember the guy's name, but he was basically trying to get Skullbox.com from Antitrust. [21:12.220 --> 21:17.000] And he phones up Network Solutions and they say, yeah, we're doing whatever we want. [21:17.440 --> 21:21.880] Um, in that particular case, I think they're just holding it because it's, you know, Universal Studios owns the thing. [21:21.880 --> 21:25.580] And they're just letting him fly by without any, uh, money. [21:25.580 --> 21:28.200] If Universal Studios hasn't paid for it, then they don't have it. [21:28.280 --> 21:28.580] Exactly. [21:28.880 --> 21:35.520] But they don't want to let it go with the thought that it might just end up with somebody else's registrar and somebody else gets the money. [21:37.460 --> 21:38.180] Yeah, I know. [21:38.420 --> 21:39.440] Head up ass syndrome. [21:41.520 --> 21:42.760] Cranial rectal interface. [21:43.680 --> 21:46.680] I recently got hired on at, uh, the company I work for now. [21:46.840 --> 21:48.520] They had like eight or ten domains and... [21:48.520 --> 21:49.840] Sorry, I can't understand here, sorry. [21:52.640 --> 21:59.640] The, uh, the company that I work for now has about ten domains when I came aboard and I want to make sure they're all current. [22:00.380 --> 22:10.300] Uh, unfortunately, the way that Network Solutions registers domains, you build account numbers with them, which don't actually line up to anything. [22:10.940 --> 22:11.220] Yeah. [22:11.560 --> 22:16.620] I've recently called them up to try to clarify, see if I can get them all in one account and just clean up the situation. [22:17.600 --> 22:21.420] And they actually couldn't tell me which domains that I had. [22:22.480 --> 22:24.700] And I think I was supposed to have about ten. [22:25.240 --> 22:31.440] If I had answered some of the questions in a gray area, I think I could have walked away with about twenty. [22:32.220 --> 22:32.300] Yeah. [22:32.820 --> 22:46.740] They really have a very unclear system that they're trying to work through, but I just wanted to point out that if anybody has domains that they're holding, be very careful that you know what your account number and password is because they could hand them out at will. [22:47.320 --> 23:00.400] I mean, I know that there's some of those Verizon ones, those 700 that they registered that got to not been registering because that's almost $50,000 worth of domain names that they let, that they were going to have to come up for renewal. [23:00.400 --> 23:02.860] So they probably, what, at least some of them go. [23:03.420 --> 23:12.380] In their database there is a user ID column and a billing account number column that they can't seem to separate. [23:13.220 --> 23:19.480] So what was actually my account number, they were calling my billing contact and I almost ended up with somebody else's domain. [23:20.080 --> 23:24.480] Yeah, it's utterly useless to try to search by company name or account number in the WHOIS database. [23:24.760 --> 23:26.240] It's just, you can't. [23:27.460 --> 23:34.000] So if somebody wants to come up with some little screen scrape app for this, feed it a list of domains and just have it checked, it's really useful. [23:35.140 --> 23:35.540] Hi. [23:35.900 --> 23:36.180] Hi. [23:36.620 --> 23:39.740] I do that OS master work where I work. [23:40.180 --> 23:51.160] And one of the things you had mentioned how, one of the, one thing I think you forgot to mention in terms of problems when I come to domain stock is a lot of registers seem to be removing the expiration date. [23:51.480 --> 23:51.880] Yeah. [23:52.000 --> 23:54.720] I think in particular OpenSRS is not doing that. [23:56.200 --> 23:58.600] Which, in fact, they changed their WHOIS recently. [23:58.760 --> 24:00.780] They now put the disclaimer at the bottom. [24:01.340 --> 24:01.740] Yeah. [24:03.260 --> 24:05.720] So that was just really my comment that I wanted to make. [24:05.820 --> 24:17.160] And also to answer his question or comment on his comment though, if you, if you have that many domains transformed all to one place and then you can manage them all OpenSRS. [24:17.160 --> 24:20.060] Yeah, but Network Solutions charges you to move it to some other place. [24:20.260 --> 24:20.580] Sorry. [24:20.760 --> 24:23.380] Network Solutions charges you to move it to another register. [24:23.500 --> 24:24.920] Well, but it's worth it though. [24:25.320 --> 24:25.540] In my opinion. [24:25.540 --> 24:26.980] Oh yeah, I mean if you've got the money but... [24:26.980 --> 24:34.960] Well no, Network Solutions doesn't charge you like, it might cost you 10 bucks per domain but, you know, it saves you from having to lose them. [24:35.180 --> 24:38.800] I just want you to think about, you know, the sort of stuff that you could do with some of these domains. [24:39.380 --> 24:47.940] I don't know if you remember a case a few years ago but, you know, Reverend Jerry Farwell, you know, in all of his infinite wisdom owns the site GodHatesFags.com. [24:49.000 --> 24:51.500] Well, somebody forged a domain transfer. [24:51.660 --> 24:54.960] Like, I'm not advocating, like, forge domain transfers or anything like that. [24:55.220 --> 24:57.960] But they redirected it to GodLovesFags.com. [24:58.940 --> 24:59.340] Right? [24:59.760 --> 25:07.700] So, Jerry Farwell had to go to this gay rights group and basically, you know, say what the hell is going on. [25:07.880 --> 25:14.400] And, oh, it was just hilarious that all the people trying to go to GodHatesFags end up GodLovesFags. [25:14.760 --> 25:24.060] So you can imagine if you were to buy one of the, you know, buy a Reverend Jerry Farwell domain and see where you, you know, think of the interesting places you could point it. [25:24.880 --> 25:28.480] KKK.org to ACLU, you know. [25:29.560 --> 25:30.460] It's amazing. [25:31.260 --> 25:35.460] Have you ever been threatened with legal action for possessing domain names? [25:36.580 --> 25:39.800] So far, I haven't actually bought any company domain names. [25:39.940 --> 25:42.920] I've just said, here, I'm paying on their behalf. [25:43.160 --> 25:45.560] So everything still is in their name. [25:45.780 --> 25:47.800] It's all, you know, legal. [25:47.960 --> 25:49.720] It's just that it's somebody else's wallet. [25:51.040 --> 25:52.960] Realistically, they don't have to give me anything. [25:52.960 --> 25:58.940] But, you know, if you get the press involved, it's sort of, it's in their best interest to at least appear nice. [26:00.640 --> 26:10.100] You know, there's been a few companies I've found that have, you know, a product like Symantec had a Web Prospector, which is a plug-in for an ACT organizer. [26:10.560 --> 26:14.940] And they let that expire, but, you know, they hadn't done anything with it for a few years, so I let it go. [26:14.940 --> 26:16.960] But they just let it go. [26:18.240 --> 26:22.380] I mean, for $20 Canadian a year, it's worth keeping up that intellectual property. [26:22.600 --> 26:39.560] If they can't be bothered to, I'm really curious about the legal status, is if they let it go and we grab it, I don't think they've got any recourse, because obviously they don't care about it anymore and can't say, you know, what's going on with it. [26:39.820 --> 26:40.180] Great. [26:42.080 --> 26:42.660] Nobody else? [26:43.000 --> 26:43.420] No questions? [26:44.700 --> 26:45.820] Geez, I've got ten minutes left. [26:46.700 --> 26:54.800] Um, there's a guy from, uh, who ran, uh, the Alternate, the Alternative DNS route. [26:55.220 --> 26:56.780] I don't see him around here. [26:56.880 --> 26:58.980] He had a... [26:58.980 --> 27:06.100] Someone would get him, because he wanted to play a phone call, and I said that if I finished early, I'd be, uh, I'd hand over the mic to me and play that phone call. [27:06.100 --> 27:12.020] So, basically him and, uh, Network Solutions trying to figure out, you know, who was responsible for what. [27:12.360 --> 27:14.180] And so it was pretty funny, so I turned it over. [27:17.460 --> 27:22.940] I think we should also thank, uh, Emmanuel and all the volunteers and everybody for one hell of a con. [27:23.100 --> 27:27.980] And I have to thank you guys for, you know, last slot on the last day for actually staying awake. [27:28.720 --> 27:30.780] Well, except for this guy down here. [27:33.280 --> 27:34.200] Oh, there he is. [27:38.890 --> 27:40.330] I'm surprised I survived. [27:40.330 --> 27:44.850] I mean, you know, I did not know that XCIA guys could drink till four in the morning. [27:47.530 --> 27:49.730] So, I am hurting something fierce right now. [27:51.130 --> 27:53.790] Um, anybody else? [27:54.970 --> 27:56.130] Anybody got anything to say? [27:56.390 --> 27:58.290] You know... [27:58.770 --> 27:59.970] I want to say hi, mom. [28:00.190 --> 28:01.430] You know, for the official record. [28:05.680 --> 28:09.000] Yeah, render lab is through, uh, through that, uh, easy. [28:09.100 --> 28:11.060] He was just asking, you know, who I use as a registrar. [28:11.340 --> 28:15.400] Well, I was going to follow up and say, uh, a lot of people have had success, especially with Canadian. [28:15.660 --> 28:16.260] I don't know what it is. [28:16.320 --> 28:17.960] You guys are just cooler companies out there. [28:18.180 --> 28:25.180] But a lot of Canadian registrars have been very good about protecting the privacy and not disclosing, uh... [28:25.180 --> 28:26.160] I just got them because they were cheap. [28:26.160 --> 28:26.680] ...registerance names. [28:27.280 --> 28:32.440] Let's say an American company or a lawyer says, Hey, you know, these people at this site, they're giving me a hard time. [28:33.120 --> 28:37.560] A lot of people will talk and say, well, you never want to register through register.com or network solutions. [28:38.220 --> 28:40.680] But a lot of Canadian registrars will just be like, you know, no, F off. [28:40.680 --> 28:45.500] Well, I have heard of some, like, problems with these guys, just mostly because they aren't that bright. [28:46.120 --> 28:54.360] Um, you know, trying to explain to them that you'll have your web server on, uh, uh, this IP, but, you know, your MX record's going to be hosted by somebody else. [28:54.600 --> 28:58.200] It's just, you know, unless they're doing it all, they hate it. [28:58.320 --> 29:00.980] But just as a registrar, they're, they're half-decent. [29:01.160 --> 29:03.080] I mean, it's just a matter of paperwork more than anything. [29:05.220 --> 29:06.000] Anyone else? [29:08.140 --> 29:08.980] Question, comments? [29:11.000 --> 29:11.640] Fashion critiques? [29:15.540 --> 29:19.220] We've got the, uh... [29:19.220 --> 29:19.860] He's trying to find it? [29:20.360 --> 29:22.160] Okay, I'll just bullshit for a few more minutes here, then. [29:22.760 --> 29:24.640] Um, like I said, I've got this letter here. [29:25.600 --> 29:29.800] Baggage handlers weren't very nice to it in the customs, but, uh, I'll have that available. [29:32.180 --> 29:32.740] Oh, sure. [29:33.240 --> 29:34.120] Here, everyone wants to say something. [29:35.040 --> 29:35.480] How you doing? [29:35.620 --> 29:38.840] Hey, I heard a talk about the WHOIS stuff, and I just want to tell you what I know. [29:38.840 --> 29:41.200] I'm Paul Guerin, founder of Namespace and Freedom Media. [29:42.780 --> 29:57.840] And actually, part of the thing with the WHOIS now is VeriSign just sent out letters that if anyone wants to update their contact information with them, they have to do it through a web-based control panel, and they will mail you your password via snail mail. [29:58.060 --> 30:08.100] And I think this has a lot to do with homeland defense, because what they need to do, what they're trying to establish, is a land address for you and tie that to your IP usage. [30:08.100 --> 30:10.980] Because, of course, when you log into the website, what do they get? [30:13.260 --> 30:13.620] Right. [30:14.060 --> 30:16.260] And then when you have your snail mail, what do they get? [30:17.260 --> 30:17.620] Right. [30:17.800 --> 30:22.860] And when they talk to your ISP, especially if it's AOL, what do they have on the other end of their modem? [30:24.260 --> 30:25.820] Caller ID, if you're dialing in. [30:26.040 --> 30:31.420] So they have all of your contact information down to you, and they can identify your WHOIS down to individual. [30:31.720 --> 30:43.920] So not only does that have an implication for spying, surveillance, or other kind of so-called accounting, accountability, but also it helps the trademark people enforce lawsuits and things like that, so they can come after and coerce you. [30:44.220 --> 30:55.340] So what we set up with Namespace is, we were the first, one of the first 29 companies to be accredited, quote-unquote, for the ICANN registry thing. [30:55.340 --> 31:15.920] But when I read the contract, and I saw as the registrar contract, the mandatory database escrow requirements, meaning every week, once a week, if you're a registrar, you have to present to ICANN, or one of their so-called accepted agents, a full and complete data listing of every data field that they require in the contract, [31:16.040 --> 31:22.380] down to the credit card number, phone number, everything for the individuals, to them once a week. [31:22.380 --> 31:26.220] So what we did, it was not to go forward. [31:26.360 --> 31:40.120] Besides the fact that we had to post $100,000 bonds to Network Solutions so they could constantly draw off our credit account, we decided to buy from another reseller, rather than directly interface with NSI registry. [31:40.440 --> 31:49.540] And what this did is, the registrar that we buy from, it's a slightly elevated wholesale price, but they have to turn over their WHOIS database. [31:50.020 --> 31:50.740] We don't. [31:51.920 --> 31:54.800] So people register with us, we can act as agent proxy. [31:55.080 --> 32:01.020] And so there's a new service we're developing, we don't have the whole software background done for it yet, called Anonymous Agent. [32:01.360 --> 32:03.700] And it's aa00.org. [32:03.700 --> 32:08.160] And so we would then be the land-based WHOIS information on your behalf. [32:08.400 --> 32:11.360] And of course, our privacy policy is nobody gets our database. [32:12.200 --> 32:13.880] Even if they come knocking on our door. [32:14.620 --> 32:15.180] So... [32:20.770 --> 32:24.970] Because we believe that privacy is essential and that... [32:24.970 --> 32:30.510] not in making profit off of it, like Yahoo is selling to spammers and things like that. [32:30.510 --> 32:48.810] So, we chose to take that extra little obstacle in the way and use a middle company in order to exempt ourselves from having to sign a contract that says we have to compromise every one of our customers' privacy when it violates our own policy to begin with. [32:49.550 --> 32:55.830] It's not on C-Land, probably not yet, but I should probably find our guy out here and talk to him about it. [32:55.830 --> 33:00.650] And also, we need to raise enough funds so we can put our server over there. [33:00.890 --> 33:03.750] So, you know, think about supporting us. [33:03.830 --> 33:06.930] We have a service called MoveMy.com. [33:07.090 --> 33:13.270] So, if you're with NSI and you've got a renewal coming up, do it 60 to 90 days in advance and get out of there. [33:13.530 --> 33:17.490] And, you know, even with our middleman price, the cost is a little bit... [33:17.950 --> 33:19.610] It's half of what they charge, anyway. [33:19.830 --> 33:23.290] So, you know, check out MoveMy.com. [33:23.310 --> 33:23.910] That's the address. [33:23.910 --> 33:27.730] And on top of that, let me see, we're looking for this... [33:27.730 --> 33:32.310] We have an IFF file here of the phone call with Network Solutions... [33:32.850 --> 33:34.410] It reads it as a Photoshop file. [33:34.470 --> 33:35.110] That's wacky. [33:35.790 --> 33:36.570] That shouldn't be. [33:36.590 --> 33:37.810] No, actually, it does work. [33:38.670 --> 33:42.010] Yeah, but do you have a QuickTime player in here? [33:45.410 --> 33:46.430] Oh, yeah, you get one. [33:46.630 --> 33:46.810] All right. [33:46.810 --> 33:49.410] Basically, we have a 10-minute audio recording. [33:49.770 --> 33:53.290] In March 1997, Namespace... [33:53.290 --> 34:14.650] March 11, 1997, I signed a letter on behalf of Namespace to Network Solutions, basically announcing that we're their competition, and handed them a printout of about 350 top-level domains, like .sucks, .info, .art, .news, etc., etc., and asked them to input those into the root zone so they would work on an equal playing field with .com. [34:15.090 --> 34:18.910] Well, the phone call that we're trying to play back here was when they called back. [34:19.670 --> 34:29.190] And it's Dave Graves, head of operations, Phil Sparbrough, outside general counsel, and my former attorney, Michael Donovan. [34:30.090 --> 34:37.470] And through the conversation, basically what was established was there was no contractual chain of command over the root. [34:38.050 --> 34:46.210] And when they referred our request back to John Postel, Michael Donovan very astutely asked them, do you have a contract with IANA? [34:46.570 --> 34:50.930] And Phil Sparbrough responds, we have a contract with IANA. [34:51.110 --> 34:53.570] No, we don't have a contract with IANA. [34:53.790 --> 34:56.850] So, and then they went on further. [34:57.470 --> 34:59.970] But that's just the way things are done here. [35:00.810 --> 35:03.990] But in the law, actually, there needs to be an articulated chain of command. [35:04.290 --> 35:08.570] So, the next question was, well, who actually inputs the change in the root? [35:08.770 --> 35:11.950] And you hear the guy kind of go in the background, I guess we do? [35:12.190 --> 35:14.410] And he said, I guess we do. [35:14.710 --> 35:24.790] And we said, well, that's our point because you guys input the change and according to the cooperative agreement, you have the discretionary power to make this change. [35:24.790 --> 35:26.770] So, anyway, they chose not to. [35:26.970 --> 35:36.090] So, we were forced to file an antitrust action, which we filed on March 20th, 1997, which was modeled after MCI versus AT&T. [35:36.550 --> 35:51.010] Now, we all know, the phone astute audience here we have, that MCI versus AT&T broke up the phone company and allowed for the growth of the internet because it allowed people to plug devices into the line and that's why the internet grew. [35:51.490 --> 35:56.750] In this case, after three years of litigation, NSI was given immunity. [35:58.110 --> 35:58.950] And the U.S. [35:59.290 --> 36:02.990] government stepped in and asserted their authority over the root, which didn't exist before. [36:02.990 --> 36:09.130] So, in fact, we argued and it was affirmed with amicus briefs from Professor Hank Perrett of Kent Law School. [36:11.230 --> 36:13.110] Oh, that's too bad that actually worked for me. [36:14.270 --> 36:15.750] Somehow there's a corrupt file. [36:16.610 --> 36:20.390] Isn't that ironic that NSI's file is corrupt? [36:21.430 --> 36:23.030] Well, that's life, folks. [36:24.430 --> 36:25.070] Say what? [36:25.910 --> 36:26.910] It's on that CD. [36:27.610 --> 36:28.710] Somebody else want to give it a try? [36:29.770 --> 36:31.010] Alright, let's see if you can play that. [36:31.130 --> 36:31.830] I think it's the IFF. [36:33.670 --> 36:34.850] So, what happened anyway? [36:35.010 --> 36:36.830] Court of Appeals gave NSI immunity. [36:37.230 --> 36:38.070] But the U.S. [36:38.490 --> 36:41.370] government stepped forward and articulated their authority over the root. [36:41.530 --> 36:45.410] Although we argued that no government has authority because it's a global commons. [36:45.910 --> 36:49.290] Everybody hears this idea about the digital commons, global commons. [36:49.390 --> 36:55.750] When, in fact, according to the General Accounting Office, since the United States paid for the DARPA research, that they own it. [36:57.050 --> 36:58.150] So, the U.S. [36:58.230 --> 36:58.770] owns the root. [36:59.330 --> 37:06.310] And specifically, the Department of Commerce, National Telecommunications and Infrastructure Agency, or the NTIA, owns the root. [37:06.490 --> 37:19.210] So, don't believe the hype and smoke and mirrors about ICANN, because all ICANN is a contractor that's about to lose their contract come September, because they failed in their mission, which was basically to oversee the addition of new domains. [37:19.410 --> 37:20.110] What did they do? [37:20.110 --> 37:21.690] They restricted the supply. [37:21.850 --> 37:23.850] They came up with seven ridiculous choices. [37:24.230 --> 37:34.430] Stole three domains from namespace, which we sought a publication for, .info, .pro, and .museum, and handed them to the group of non-party co-conspirators we named in our lawsuit. [37:35.230 --> 37:35.890] He's got it. [37:36.070 --> 37:38.030] Give it to the sound guys so they can plug it in. [37:40.090 --> 37:40.690] Mic it. [37:40.810 --> 37:40.810] Mic it. [37:40.850 --> 37:41.350] You got it. [37:41.450 --> 37:42.510] Low tech beats high tech. [37:43.210 --> 37:44.170] Mr. Marlboro? [37:45.510 --> 37:45.990] Yes. [37:46.530 --> 37:47.010] Uh... [37:47.010 --> 37:48.030] Network Solutions? [37:48.350 --> 37:48.630] Yeah. [37:49.150 --> 37:49.890] What can I do for you? [37:50.130 --> 37:50.550] Very good. [37:50.890 --> 37:51.750] Hello, it's the T? [37:51.990 --> 37:52.230] Yes. [37:52.510 --> 37:52.950] Hi, Paul. [37:53.350 --> 37:58.450] With me on the phone is Dave Graves, the Internet Business Manager from Network Solutions. [37:58.610 --> 37:58.850] Mm-hmm. [37:59.230 --> 38:01.830] We just received your letter and we thought we should call you. [38:02.150 --> 38:02.450] Okay. [38:03.550 --> 38:03.990] Uh... [38:03.990 --> 38:05.650] I think, uh... [38:05.650 --> 38:08.250] David, correct me any time I speak. [38:08.690 --> 38:09.130] Uh... [38:09.130 --> 38:10.710] I'm the outside general counsel. [38:10.950 --> 38:13.650] David is the Internet Business Manager, so he's the Operations Manager. [38:13.770 --> 38:13.990] Mm-hmm. [38:14.210 --> 38:14.790] You know what? [38:15.010 --> 38:15.450] Uh... [38:15.450 --> 38:18.550] I think if we're going to do this call, we should conference with my attorney also. [38:18.770 --> 38:19.590] Anything you'd like. [38:19.810 --> 38:20.150] Okay. [38:20.570 --> 38:21.290] Do you want to hold on? [38:21.410 --> 38:21.910] Of course. [38:22.090 --> 38:22.470] Hold on. [38:24.030 --> 38:24.430] Uh... [38:24.430 --> 38:25.330] We're here in Washington. [38:25.810 --> 38:26.610] Okay, Michael? [38:26.810 --> 38:26.930] Yeah. [38:27.290 --> 38:27.510] Uh... [38:27.510 --> 38:29.950] This is Michael Donovan, my attorney, on the other line. [38:30.150 --> 38:30.370] Uh... [38:30.370 --> 38:30.990] Go ahead, please. [38:31.090 --> 38:31.890] Could you introduce yourselves? [38:32.690 --> 38:32.930] Michael. [38:33.250 --> 38:35.370] Michael, you're from what law firm in New York? [38:36.210 --> 38:36.690] Uh... [38:36.690 --> 38:37.230] My firm. [38:37.930 --> 38:38.670] My name... [38:38.670 --> 38:39.050] Uh... [38:39.050 --> 38:40.150] What's the name of your firm? [38:40.450 --> 38:41.070] Michael J. [38:41.190 --> 38:41.410] Donovan. [38:41.730 --> 38:42.190] Michael J. [38:42.290 --> 38:42.530] Donovan. [38:42.830 --> 38:43.150] Uh... [38:43.150 --> 38:44.350] Downtown New York, or where? [38:45.470 --> 38:46.450] 431 Perif Street. [38:47.550 --> 38:47.870] I'm... [38:47.870 --> 38:51.350] The reason I'd like to do it is because I'd like to know what attorney I'm speaking to. [38:51.410 --> 38:53.810] I'm the outside general counsel for Network Solutions. [38:54.230 --> 38:55.670] My first name is Phil. [38:56.130 --> 38:57.530] Last name is Sbarvaro. [38:57.970 --> 39:00.130] S-B-A-R-V-A-R-O. [39:00.130 --> 39:02.450] Law firm is Hanson and Malloy. [39:02.810 --> 39:03.850] Can you repeat that, please? [39:04.970 --> 39:05.670] Which part? [39:05.950 --> 39:06.630] The law firm. [39:06.970 --> 39:12.410] Oh, the law firm is Hanson, H-A-N-S-O-N, and Malloy in Washington, D.C. [39:12.690 --> 39:12.990] Okay. [39:13.730 --> 39:18.410] With me is the Internet Business Manager, Dave Graves, G-R-A-V-E-S. [39:19.070 --> 39:20.890] And, Michael, you're... [39:20.890 --> 39:21.670] When you say... [39:21.670 --> 39:23.370] I don't know the address, you'll have to help me. [39:23.490 --> 39:24.690] Is that downtown New York City? [39:25.430 --> 39:26.350] It's in Soho. [39:26.470 --> 39:27.050] It's near downtown. [39:29.250 --> 39:29.710] All right. [39:29.710 --> 39:30.510] So you're in Manhattan? [39:30.750 --> 39:30.950] Yes. [39:31.390 --> 39:31.670] All right. [39:31.670 --> 39:37.770] The reason for the call, Paul and Michael, was because we just today received your letter... [39:37.770 --> 39:38.050] Right. [39:38.470 --> 39:41.070] ...informing us who you are and what you like. [39:41.290 --> 39:49.090] And we thought there was a fundamental, perhaps, misunderstanding of our role, and we thought we would alert you to that fact. [39:49.730 --> 39:52.210] You say in your letter that... [39:52.210 --> 39:57.010] And correct me, and I don't mean to mischaracterize it, so this isn't an aggressive call. [39:57.150 --> 39:58.070] I'm just trying to explain something. [39:59.490 --> 40:07.930] I got the impression from your letter that you thought that we controlled the root servers of the Internet, basically. [40:08.250 --> 40:09.550] Is that what you think? [40:09.990 --> 40:11.430] I couldn't hear that. [40:11.570 --> 40:12.930] You're very light here. [40:13.210 --> 40:14.130] Can you repeat that? [40:14.390 --> 40:14.810] Yes. [40:14.810 --> 40:15.730] The letter... [40:15.730 --> 40:21.870] The letter from you folks makes it sound like you think that we control the root servers for the Internet. [40:22.910 --> 40:23.270] Yeah. [40:23.850 --> 40:24.230] Okay. [40:24.690 --> 40:25.890] That is incorrect. [40:26.270 --> 40:27.610] We do not control them. [40:28.010 --> 40:28.950] We are... [40:28.950 --> 40:36.490] We have been asked, delegated, whatever you'd like to call it, to administer the root servers for the IANA. [40:36.750 --> 40:40.310] The IANA, I'm sure Paul probably knows what that is. [40:40.470 --> 40:41.650] Do you have a contract with IANA? [40:42.070 --> 40:44.090] We have a contract with IANA. [40:44.090 --> 40:46.270] I don't think you'd call it a contract. [40:46.870 --> 40:49.010] That's not the way the Internet has ever been run. [40:49.390 --> 40:53.130] If you're asking me to give you a copy of the written contract, I don't have one. [40:53.490 --> 40:53.690] Okay. [40:57.510 --> 41:01.130] Well, we obviously disagree, but go ahead if you want to go on. [41:01.810 --> 41:02.870] I don't know what... [41:02.870 --> 41:04.470] I don't know what to say. [41:04.590 --> 41:06.390] We don't control the root servers. [41:08.010 --> 41:09.950] We don't control what goes into them. [41:09.950 --> 41:11.150] Let me ask you a question. [41:11.450 --> 41:11.950] Sure. [41:12.070 --> 41:21.310] When a country that does not have an Internet presence decides to set up a country code, who actually physically adds it to the configuration file? [41:23.090 --> 41:25.490] Well, you mix two things. [41:26.270 --> 41:33.710] If a country code wants to be added to the root servers, they ask IANA, and IANA tells us to do it. [41:33.910 --> 41:34.670] Who does it, though? [41:34.810 --> 41:36.990] Who actually physically enters it into the computer? [41:38.770 --> 41:39.590] I suppose we do. [41:39.830 --> 41:40.150] I suppose we do. [41:40.150 --> 41:40.850] Yeah, I suppose we do. [41:41.190 --> 41:41.550] Okay. [41:42.030 --> 41:42.930] That's our point. [41:43.310 --> 41:46.450] Well, I mean, that can be your point, but that has no legal legality to it. [41:46.550 --> 41:47.770] We do what we're told. [41:48.410 --> 41:53.430] As all the root servers, the nine root servers around the world do what they're told. [41:54.210 --> 42:01.370] Now, you can object or disagree with the authority over us, but respectfully, that's not our... [42:01.370 --> 42:02.390] You know, we do what we're told. [42:05.490 --> 42:08.650] So, that's what basically they say, we do what we're told. [42:09.190 --> 42:10.730] Even though they didn't have a contract. [42:11.530 --> 42:12.750] They went on for more. [42:12.930 --> 42:17.530] They were trying to find out technical details about the contents of the file we sent, but it's not really... [42:17.530 --> 42:18.770] You heard the meat of the issue there. [42:19.090 --> 42:24.090] Basically, established there was no articulated chain of command, and they say we are just following orders. [42:24.450 --> 42:25.850] Also, they had no contract. [42:26.310 --> 42:29.770] So, we filed the antitrust case, and the government took over. [42:30.350 --> 42:31.370] Anyway, so... [42:35.310 --> 42:36.190] Anyway, any questions? [42:39.730 --> 42:40.790] Actually, yeah, you know what? [42:41.390 --> 42:42.470] Look at reclaim.net. [42:43.130 --> 42:49.430] There's an MP3 hiding in the bow somewhere, and I'll put a visible link to it, because I never published it online, actually. [42:49.530 --> 42:54.370] And I think this is the first time, no kidding, that it's ever been played publicly, that recording. [42:56.450 --> 42:58.650] Up to this point, I never disclosed it. [43:01.490 --> 43:03.430] Reclaim the dot net. [43:05.130 --> 43:06.170] Reclaim the dot net. [43:06.290 --> 43:06.790] My t-shirt. [43:08.090 --> 43:09.230] Yeah, that's the address. [43:09.870 --> 43:11.190] So, yeah, any other questions? [43:12.990 --> 43:14.410] I guess I covered all the bases. [43:14.590 --> 43:14.950] Goddamn. [43:15.130 --> 43:15.810] You guys are smart. [43:16.250 --> 43:16.610] Okay. [43:16.830 --> 43:19.250] Hey, big hand to him for yielding some time to you, man. [43:19.650 --> 43:20.390] That was really cool. [43:23.460 --> 43:24.210] And thank you. [43:27.750 --> 43:29.950] I guess that's it, unless anybody else wants to say something. [43:30.090 --> 43:30.330] Thank you. [43:30.330 --> 43:30.350] Traditionally, here comes a bit. [43:30.490 --> 43:30.690] Family life to yeuxie, it's forgetful at that. [43:30.690 --> 43:30.930] If you're going to be able to form an incredible attraction. [43:30.930 --> 43:30.990] Again, this system has ended up very lowly for you. [43:31.050 --> 43:31.230] I didn't really know how tall and like that.