[00:00.000 --> 00:01.680]  I know, we barely lost anybody.
[00:01.880 --> 00:02.960]  That was your chance.
[00:03.000 --> 00:04.340]  That was your chance to leave.
[00:06.060 --> 00:06.760]  Oh, man.
[00:07.520 --> 00:07.960]  All right.
[00:08.120 --> 00:13.640]  So we're going to talk about another fun cultural topic, and then some exploits, and then some more blah, blah, blah.
[00:14.140 --> 00:15.100]  Community, yay.
[00:15.660 --> 00:21.880]  Okay, so before that, I want to circle back at something I said originally about the difference between...
[00:21.880 --> 00:24.400]  About why picking is better and you're wrong and raking.
[00:24.520 --> 00:26.820]  Why raking is always the best technique.
[00:26.820 --> 00:27.580]  I already made my point.
[00:27.600 --> 00:28.280]  That's what he was going to talk about.
[00:29.620 --> 00:40.860]  So I asked, you know, what the difference is or what the response would be when somebody asked you, you know, are you training criminals or what's the purpose of your organization?
[00:42.940 --> 00:53.920]  And I think the best answer to that, if you encounter that in the field, is, you know, a criminal won't come to a meeting, I think, unless it's court ordered.
[00:55.880 --> 00:57.820]  And if he does, he won't return.
[00:57.820 --> 00:58.260]  Yeah.
[00:59.140 --> 00:59.460]  Right.
[00:59.860 --> 01:04.900]  So, I think that you're generally pretty safe.
[01:05.140 --> 01:10.820]  You know, we've all been interviewed several times by press, and it's something that continuously comes up.
[01:11.260 --> 01:17.460]  I mean, the real answer for like, wait, why are you, you know, why do you guys teach people to pick locks?
[01:18.500 --> 01:19.320]  Why don't you?
[01:19.780 --> 01:20.740]  Because we like to?
[01:20.940 --> 01:21.080]  Yeah.
[01:21.880 --> 01:23.040]  We think it's fun.
[01:23.260 --> 01:26.300]  We like to teach other people things that we find fun.
[01:26.300 --> 01:29.400]  It just so happens that the fun thing is picking locks.
[01:29.720 --> 01:35.760]  And there's a lot of activities that you can happen to enjoy that might sound kind of strange to some people.
[01:36.180 --> 01:37.660]  And they don't have to understand.
[01:37.660 --> 01:47.100]  They just have to, you know, respect that, you know, you are trying, you're probably going to try to do it in a way that is, you know, good and ethical and honest.
[01:47.100 --> 01:55.920]  The more, you know, going deeper on the topic, as Doug mentioned, you know, is, well, always the concern.
[01:56.240 --> 01:58.480]  Well, what about the criminal element?
[02:01.760 --> 02:11.200]  It's hard to speak with actual numbers or experience on this topic, in my opinion, because there isn't a whole lot of data that we've been able to find concrete out there.
[02:11.300 --> 02:15.680]  There's a few news articles here and there, but there's not a whole lot.
[02:15.680 --> 02:38.200]  But from my best estimation, the people here, the criminals that are seeking this knowledge with the intent of using it for harm, are not going to be coming to our membership meetings with regularity, learning lockpicking from us.
[02:38.320 --> 02:44.920]  I feel that they would probably not want to be as exposed, and they would probably try to learn this on their own.
[02:44.920 --> 03:00.700]  Especially because our organization is comprised of not just hobbyist lockpickers, but non-hobbyist people, like professional law enforcement, people with local municipalities, people with federal agencies, people that are just teachers.
[03:01.000 --> 03:09.620]  You know, it's such a diverse membership that, I don't know, I feel that we've been fairly successful in being self-regulating.
[03:10.520 --> 03:11.980]  You know, never say never.
[03:12.200 --> 03:14.700]  It's always possible that one day I'll be proven wrong.
[03:14.860 --> 03:15.980]  I hope that day never comes.
[03:16.140 --> 03:26.060]  But so far, for all the years that we've been operating, I think we've done an excellent job of being self-regulating and weeding out people that we think maybe aren't the best fit for the community.
[03:26.340 --> 03:28.660]  It looks like something I said may have struck something with you.
[03:28.660 --> 03:36.240]  I was just wondering, obviously, when the criminal worlds are breaking locks, they're doing it on big safes, on really secure systems.
[03:36.960 --> 03:39.540]  Do you ever get any feedback from those?
[03:40.100 --> 03:43.960]  Because obviously they're doing what you do, which is on a...
[03:43.960 --> 03:45.180]  Just on the different slams.
[03:45.360 --> 03:46.560]  Do we get feedback from the manufacturers, you mean?
[03:46.560 --> 03:50.860]  Or, you know, or from those guys, you ever get any...
[03:50.860 --> 03:53.320]  Not saying, you mix in those circles, but...
[03:53.320 --> 03:56.340]  Do we get feedback from criminals or from manufacturers?
[03:56.620 --> 03:59.560]  Obviously, people who are just technical, you know...
[03:59.560 --> 04:01.720]  Oh, just feedback from technical researchers.
[04:02.080 --> 04:02.400]  Yeah.
[04:02.400 --> 04:03.260]  Yeah, I mean, that's...
[04:03.260 --> 04:03.380]  Oh, sure.
[04:03.660 --> 04:04.640]  Pen testing, pen testing.
[04:04.840 --> 04:05.260]  That's what we do.
[04:05.340 --> 04:05.600]  Pen testers.
[04:05.700 --> 04:06.960]  That's what a lot of our jobs are.
[04:07.200 --> 04:07.700]  Yeah, absolutely.
[04:07.700 --> 04:09.480]  Raise your hand on the stage if you're a pen tester.
[04:09.820 --> 04:10.700]  Like, yeah.
[04:10.780 --> 04:11.300]  A lot of us.
[04:12.240 --> 04:12.600]  So...
[04:12.960 --> 04:13.940]  And, you know, we...
[04:13.940 --> 04:16.080]  And for that reason, actually, we...
[04:16.080 --> 04:22.680]  You know, a lot of the organizations do have some unofficial lines of communications with lock manufacturers.
[04:23.180 --> 04:23.540]  Yeah.
[04:23.540 --> 04:27.360]  So, if they have questions, they kind of ask us in an unofficial capacity.
[04:27.500 --> 04:27.640]  Yeah.
[04:27.640 --> 04:28.380]  From ABBAs to Schlage.
[04:28.500 --> 04:28.560]  That channel's open.
[04:28.560 --> 04:31.060]  And if we find something, you know, we have...
[04:31.060 --> 04:32.280]  We all have contacts.
[04:32.560 --> 04:38.700]  We have, you know, people high up in, you know, different departments, you know, and cylinder engineers that we call, hey, you know, Jack.
[04:39.900 --> 04:40.300]  Yeah.
[04:40.300 --> 04:42.540]  I don't know if you guys heard about this yet, but we...
[04:42.540 --> 04:44.500]  We found this thing with your newest lock.
[04:44.820 --> 04:47.020]  Or they send us some pre-production models.
[04:47.500 --> 04:47.520]  Yes.
[04:47.520 --> 04:47.600]  Right.
[04:47.800 --> 04:51.620]  Like, well, please try to kill these, so it's cheap R&D for them.
[04:52.160 --> 04:52.240]  Yeah.
[04:52.360 --> 04:54.060]  And we get to play with toys that don't exist yet.
[04:54.060 --> 04:55.080]  Yeah, we get to play with cool stuff.
[04:55.180 --> 04:55.520]  Absolutely.
[04:55.960 --> 04:56.020]  Yeah.
[04:56.500 --> 05:05.740]  When John King first disseminated his method of picking Medico, which is the...
[05:05.740 --> 05:10.180]  Probably one of the most widely used American high security lock.
[05:11.680 --> 05:16.680]  Used in high security applications for government, the White House.
[05:16.900 --> 05:22.860]  I think there's, you know, rumors that it was used to unlock the...
[05:22.860 --> 05:25.700]  Or arm the nuclear missiles.
[05:25.700 --> 05:38.920]  So, when he released that information, he actually had, you know, several run-ins with both military and federal agents that were curious about his intention.
[05:40.020 --> 05:40.620]  So...
[05:40.620 --> 05:42.260]  Yeah, that interaction happens a lot.
[05:42.880 --> 05:43.280]  Render?
[05:43.600 --> 05:44.160]  If that's...
[05:44.160 --> 05:45.280]  I see a shadow.
[05:45.480 --> 05:45.760]  A profile.
[05:45.940 --> 05:46.620]  The man with the strange hat.
[05:46.620 --> 05:46.700]  Yeah.
[05:46.860 --> 05:48.480]  I have a very distinctive profile here.
[05:49.180 --> 05:49.580]  So...
[05:50.100 --> 05:50.500]  Um...
[05:50.500 --> 05:54.480]  You look like the man giving testimony with his voice altered in like a Discovery Channel show.
[05:55.020 --> 05:55.420]  With...
[05:55.420 --> 05:56.440]  With like a really deep voice.
[05:56.720 --> 05:57.480]  I see a blur there.
[05:57.800 --> 05:57.960]  Yeah.
[05:57.960 --> 05:59.680]  I can neither confirm nor deny that has ever happened.
[06:00.680 --> 06:06.900]  No, I just wanted to point out that the other part of teaching is not just the skills, but the education.
[06:07.260 --> 06:07.860]  Holy crap.
[06:07.880 --> 06:10.160]  I just popped this lock that's the same one in my front door.
[06:11.020 --> 06:12.940]  Bump keying is a prime example.
[06:12.940 --> 06:16.920]  I was reading about it in the complete guide to locks and locksmithing.
[06:17.040 --> 06:17.540]  Yeah.
[06:17.600 --> 06:19.980]  An addition that was from the early 90s.
[06:20.400 --> 06:22.400]  I read a technical description of bumping.
[06:22.860 --> 06:28.420]  So the information had been out for years before it really hit, you know, the community or anything like that.
[06:28.700 --> 06:37.780]  But because of Locksport, namely you guys up here, getting out, telling the message, now you're seeing manufacturers actually dealing with it.
[06:37.900 --> 06:42.680]  It used to be, you know, this little secret that the locksmiths kept to themselves to make their job easier.
[06:43.160 --> 06:47.680]  Now, we actually have, you know, raising the bar in security.
[06:47.840 --> 06:56.940]  Because if people know, yeah, the lock that came with my house is crap, they're going to go spend money at a locksmith from these manufacturers and buy a better one.
[06:57.140 --> 06:58.140]  I totally agree.
[06:58.140 --> 06:59.500]  That's definitely one point.
[06:59.660 --> 07:01.860]  So we are making the world safer.
[07:02.140 --> 07:03.780]  Consumer awareness is a good way to put it.
[07:03.980 --> 07:06.500]  And on the other hand, we're a sports group.
[07:06.520 --> 07:07.340]  It's a sport.
[07:07.340 --> 07:15.180]  I'm pretty sure that anyone who teaches somebody else baseball won't get any lip if you teach someone how to swing a piece of wood.
[07:15.880 --> 07:16.720]  And that's...
[07:16.720 --> 07:18.220]  It all depends on what the target is.
[07:18.480 --> 07:20.740]  Is it a ball or someone's head that's the target?
[07:21.820 --> 07:28.600]  The other analogy I always say is if you have a lock in your hand that's not securing anything, not attached to anything, is it a lock?
[07:29.300 --> 07:30.800]  Is it a mechanical puzzle?
[07:30.800 --> 07:31.640]  Yeah.
[07:31.640 --> 07:33.760]  Because what makes it a lock a lock?
[07:33.980 --> 07:34.680]  That's interesting.
[07:34.800 --> 07:37.920]  It's a very philosophical thing that I've been drinking, so...
[07:37.920 --> 07:38.640]  What has it achieved lockness?
[07:38.920 --> 07:39.760]  It's not really...
[07:39.760 --> 07:40.200]  Yeah.
[07:40.640 --> 07:40.700]  Thank you.
[07:40.700 --> 07:41.640]  That's a good question.
[07:42.660 --> 07:43.380]  Okay, cool.
[07:43.600 --> 07:59.660]  So, on that note, I just want to kind of briefly touch on the community organizing aspect, the different clubs and organizations, and some of the history of locksport and how it came to be, as well as some of the challenges that we've had to deal with.
[08:01.760 --> 08:11.460]  And I, you know, particularly want feedback from the audience in this regard about wins that some of you may have experienced in terms of community organizing.
[08:11.660 --> 08:13.260]  So, that's what we'll touch on at the end.
[08:13.260 --> 08:13.900]  I love that word, community.
[08:14.160 --> 08:16.040]  Stick it on anything and it sounds official, right?
[08:16.300 --> 08:16.620]  Yeah.
[08:16.620 --> 08:18.740]  Like, if you're like, hey, let's make some f*cking t-shirts.
[08:19.300 --> 08:20.060]  Like, all right, whatever.
[08:20.160 --> 08:20.840]  Or freaking with YouTube.
[08:21.220 --> 08:23.440]  Like, hey, let's talk about the t-shirt-making community.
[08:25.260 --> 08:30.520]  You just add the word community and it just seems so much more grand and honorable and purposeful.
[08:31.000 --> 08:32.620]  So, yeah, but we are a community.
[08:33.600 --> 08:40.740]  The real origins of the locksport or lock obsession or lock picking obsession in the U.S.
[08:41.400 --> 08:45.360]  originated, I think, you know, with the advent of the Internet, like most things.
[08:45.360 --> 08:55.320]  The first highly disseminated piece of documentation was the MIT Guide to Lockpicking that was published in 1992.
[08:55.760 --> 09:01.880]  Which is now known as the guide formally known, the document formally known as the MIT Guide to Lockpicking.
[09:01.980 --> 09:02.040]  Right.
[09:02.080 --> 09:03.620]  MIT did not want to be associated with that.
[09:03.620 --> 09:03.840]  MIT was not happy.
[09:03.840 --> 09:03.900]  Yeah.
[09:04.700 --> 09:20.740]  But that was really the first and most accurate, you know, lock picking guide that was published that anybody could access and download without paying a fee, without being part of, you know, a lock smithing...
[09:20.740 --> 09:22.280]  I'm going to use that community word again.
[09:23.800 --> 09:37.100]  What we've found when dealing or when attempting to deal with different locksmithing organizations is a real culture of secrecy that, you know, we're trying to break down.
[09:37.480 --> 09:40.920]  So, they view us as a threat or they have viewed us as a threat.
[09:41.060 --> 09:45.620]  I'm not sure, you know, if that view on their behalf has evolved in any way.
[09:45.620 --> 09:55.300]  But, for instance, the presidents and several press releases from organizations like ALOA, which is the American Locksmithing Association...
[09:55.300 --> 09:57.100]  Associated Locksmiths of America.
[09:57.940 --> 10:08.340]  Associated Locksmiths of America have, you know, publicly denounced our practices and our teachings as something that, you know, shouldn't be known, right?
[10:08.540 --> 10:25.560]  And there's a real problem there, obviously, and you can understand why, is the fact that they're obfuscating this information and trying to keep it secret means that there's quite a bit of vulnerability and potential for abusing the information.
[10:26.660 --> 10:29.120]  So, they're keeping this information under wraps.
[10:29.600 --> 10:42.580]  And they're doing it, you know, not only to preserve their profession, but also to preserve the secrecy of all of these vulnerabilities that are available.
[10:42.580 --> 10:49.800]  So, that's why we like to talk about consumer advocacy or consumer education, because that's kind of the basis of what we're doing.
[10:49.940 --> 11:03.220]  We're showing people how easy it is to break into their own homes or to bypass, you know, certain locks, so they can make better purchasing decisions, so they can protect themselves and their family better if they choose to.
[11:03.220 --> 11:18.980]  So, just to play devil's advocate here, I think it's important to understand that LOA and other professional locksmithing groups, they're not trying to... this isn't some massive cover-up conspiracy or something weird like that.
[11:19.180 --> 11:28.360]  This is a byproduct of how the trade organization has grown over the last few hundred years, basically.
[11:28.760 --> 11:35.100]  How the art and craft of locksmithing has been, you know, disseminated from generation to generation.
[11:35.700 --> 11:41.120]  Locksmiths traditionally have always been people who are literally gatekeepers, right?
[11:41.240 --> 11:43.560]  These are the people that you're supposed to trust the most.
[11:44.220 --> 11:48.460]  And thus, their knowledge was seen as something that should be protected.
[11:48.800 --> 12:02.800]  So, for many hundreds of years, locksmiths passed down their knowledge from master to apprentice in the same way that a lot of martial arts are passed down as well.
[12:03.040 --> 12:19.760]  And it's done because they want to make sure that as information is spread and as this information is taught, the ethics and honor are taught alongside with it to make sure that that knowledge is only being used for good and not for bad.
[12:20.480 --> 12:28.260]  And this is kind of the original genesis for why these closed circles of knowledge existed in the first place.
[12:29.600 --> 12:42.380]  Those types of groups are not as successful, and their purposes are not as successful in today's information age where information can be passed so quickly.
[12:42.680 --> 12:54.520]  So, what happens is you have a group of classically trained locksmiths of people who have been taught their entire lives, all right, now this knowledge that I'm teaching you is sacred.
[12:54.680 --> 12:55.840]  This is important.
[12:55.840 --> 12:59.960]  You should never teach this to someone who is not a locksmith.
[13:00.180 --> 13:02.140]  This is something that they've all promised to.
[13:02.140 --> 13:10.640]  In fact, it's in the ALOA code that as a member, you agree not to disseminate information to people who are not supposed to have that information.
[13:10.880 --> 13:13.080]  And it's done with the best intentions, right?
[13:14.300 --> 13:20.740]  And so, from one point of view, in one respect, that's the thing that they're concerned about.
[13:20.920 --> 13:28.280]  This is why their gut reaction to like, hey, we're a bunch of sport lock pickers, and you know, people talking about lock picking on YouTube.
[13:28.560 --> 13:31.080]  This is why their gut reaction is, uh, what?
[13:31.240 --> 13:31.520]  No.
[13:32.240 --> 13:38.700]  The other end of it are the people who perhaps are not particularly secure in their profession for a variety of reasons.
[13:40.540 --> 13:52.640]  Perhaps some people, in my opinion, who don't fully understand the reason for their profession, might feel, uh, challenged, or, um, might feel that, okay, well, this is stuff that only I'm supposed to know.
[13:52.740 --> 13:54.880]  If everyone knows this, then what makes me special?
[13:55.180 --> 13:57.720]  What makes me be able to charge what I charge?
[13:58.300 --> 14:00.520]  Um, and it's not the knowledge, of course.
[14:00.520 --> 14:04.580]  It's the fact that, you know, it's how you, it's how you execute that knowledge.
[14:04.740 --> 14:06.220]  It's how you provide that customer service.
[14:06.340 --> 14:07.940]  The people aren't paying you just for your knowledge.
[14:08.100 --> 14:10.600]  They're paying you for how you use that knowledge and how you deal with it.
[14:10.600 --> 14:22.920]  Um, and then another thing that they've been dealing with is, especially in New York City, actually, and any of you guys who are from larger metro areas, um, this scourge of fraudulent locksmithing.
[14:23.220 --> 14:34.420]  Um, there's, over the years, there's been more and more problems with, uh, a lot of fake yellow page ads being taken out, um, you know, from companies pretending to be locksmiths.
[14:34.900 --> 14:44.480]  And so what happens is, you know, maybe 1am rolls around, you lock your, uh, you lock your keys in your car, and maybe your kid's in the car or something, or maybe you're locked out of your house.
[14:44.680 --> 14:45.340]  So what do you do?
[14:45.400 --> 14:46.160]  You call a locksmith.
[14:46.240 --> 14:46.920]  You go, hey, help.
[14:47.100 --> 14:48.840]  You know, I locked myself out of the house.
[14:48.960 --> 14:49.580]  Really need your help.
[14:49.760 --> 14:50.960]  I locked myself in my car.
[14:51.180 --> 14:51.340]  Right.
[14:53.020 --> 14:53.300]  So...
[14:53.300 --> 14:54.060]  In your car?
[14:54.100 --> 14:55.180]  You know, you get, you get a quote.
[14:55.340 --> 14:57.120]  You're like, all right, you know, how much is it?
[14:57.200 --> 14:58.860]  They're like, oh, you know, 60 bucks.
[14:59.100 --> 15:01.200]  You're like, oh man, 60 bucks.
[15:01.340 --> 15:02.620]  All right, all right, yeah, come on out.
[15:02.620 --> 15:03.740]  Now, they get there.
[15:04.900 --> 15:07.380]  Someone in not a locksmith van shows up.
[15:07.480 --> 15:10.180]  They might show up in a personal vehicle or just some unmarked van.
[15:10.340 --> 15:10.860]  No outfit.
[15:10.980 --> 15:11.560]  No outfit.
[15:11.800 --> 15:12.280]  No nothing.
[15:13.220 --> 15:14.180]  They show up.
[15:14.280 --> 15:18.380]  They look at your lock and they go, oh, you didn't tell me it's one of them high security locks.
[15:18.500 --> 15:19.420]  This here's a quick set.
[15:20.340 --> 15:22.660]  This one I won't be able to get by.
[15:22.800 --> 15:24.040]  This is a special rate.
[15:24.160 --> 15:25.820]  This is actually going to be $200.
[15:26.500 --> 15:29.800]  It's going to be $200 for me to open it and I'm going to have to drill it.
[15:31.160 --> 15:33.100]  And so all of a sudden, what do you do?
[15:33.320 --> 15:36.060]  You know, you're in a vulnerable position.
[15:36.120 --> 15:37.680]  You're like, who is this guy?
[15:37.760 --> 15:41.540]  I'm out in the middle of the night and okay, sure.
[15:42.140 --> 15:42.460]  $200.
[15:42.780 --> 15:42.960]  Fine.
[15:43.100 --> 15:43.660]  Just get me in.
[15:43.980 --> 15:45.300]  Now they've destroyed your lock.
[15:45.460 --> 15:49.740]  So now they go, oh, well, you don't want to... There sure is a nice house you have here.
[15:49.820 --> 15:51.080]  You don't want to leave it unlocked, do you?
[15:51.080 --> 15:52.040]  Would be a shame.
[15:52.320 --> 15:54.140]  Would be a shame if someone stole all your shit.
[15:54.680 --> 15:56.200]  So what do they do?
[15:56.280 --> 16:06.920]  They offer you, you know, another high security quick set or easy set, you know, basically some crap lock for the low, low price of $450 plus installation.
[16:07.440 --> 16:10.640]  You know, so these are, these are, these are people who are scammers, right?
[16:10.740 --> 16:12.280]  These are not, these guys aren't locksmiths.
[16:12.400 --> 16:13.340]  They're, they're scam artists.
[16:13.940 --> 16:19.960]  And so what is, what is one way, perhaps not the best way to fight this?
[16:20.200 --> 16:28.940]  Well, you make simple possession of any locksmithing tools or the use of any locksmithing craft without the, without a license illegal.
[16:28.940 --> 16:38.260]  And this is what the locksmithing lobby has been lobbying for in, in a lot of jurisdictions and has been successful in at least one state, the state of Tennessee.
[16:38.520 --> 16:39.480]  Yeah, we'll cover that in a little bit.
[16:39.580 --> 16:40.420]  We'll cover laws in a bit.
[16:40.420 --> 16:41.600]  Yeah, we'll cover laws in a bit.
[16:41.760 --> 16:43.780]  But this is, this, this, this is another reason too.
[16:43.940 --> 16:51.400]  So the reason why I bring all these points up is because I want everyone to have a really good appreciation for what both sides of the conversation look like.
[16:51.400 --> 16:54.820]  So as here we are trying to just organize some meetings, right?
[16:54.820 --> 16:55.560]  We got this.
[16:55.960 --> 17:05.000]  So as, as, as leaders of our various locksport groups, our charge is not just to teach you guys cool stuff, because that's fun.
[17:05.120 --> 17:12.520]  But it's also to serve as a bridge between this world and the professional world to help both sides understand each other.
[17:12.680 --> 17:15.500]  And hopefully we can find a way where everyone gets what they want.
[17:16.820 --> 17:23.940]  And I hope you guys, that gives you guys a better understanding of, you know, why, why is it they're trying to squelch this knowledge, this information.
[17:24.220 --> 17:26.340]  It's not that they're just trying to silence us.
[17:26.480 --> 17:28.080]  They, they, they just don't understand us yet.
[17:28.280 --> 17:28.760]  Yes, sir.
[17:32.160 --> 17:33.280]  Just start talking.
[17:33.480 --> 17:33.620]  Jeff, all right.
[17:34.040 --> 17:36.160]  Question on encryption and keys.
[17:36.400 --> 17:38.800]  I have a relatively fair background in encryption.
[17:39.280 --> 17:40.260]  The, the what keys?
[17:40.740 --> 17:41.140]  Encryption.
[17:41.300 --> 17:42.060]  Oh, encryption, yes.
[17:42.400 --> 17:45.500]  So there's a big focus on making sure that the lock is secure.
[17:45.500 --> 17:48.180]  But encryption is actually the opposite, right?
[17:48.360 --> 17:51.040]  In encryption, you focus on making sure your key is secure.
[17:51.260 --> 17:56.260]  So how do you guys see parallels between that and sharing information around the differences?
[17:57.200 --> 17:58.460]  Well, I mean...
[17:58.460 --> 18:02.140]  So there's loads of parallels between the digital and physical world.
[18:02.220 --> 18:02.360]  Yeah.
[18:02.620 --> 18:07.840]  In terms of disclosure of vulnerabilities, learning from vulnerabilities, obviously key compromise.
[18:08.220 --> 18:13.920]  Like, key, breaking in one time versus compromising the key.
[18:13.920 --> 18:16.320]  There will be a talk about that tomorrow.
[18:16.780 --> 18:16.800]  Yeah.
[18:17.020 --> 18:18.540]  Posting pictures of keys on the wall.
[18:18.580 --> 18:23.660]  There's, this is a perfect parallel actually, because you phrased your question perfectly.
[18:24.100 --> 18:27.100]  Because you mentioned the, the point is to keep your key secure.
[18:27.300 --> 18:33.640]  And in fact, most of the time, when encryption is broken, is it because the key was, was, was, was stolen?
[18:34.180 --> 18:34.660]  No.
[18:34.980 --> 18:35.880]  It's the implementation.
[18:36.360 --> 18:38.080]  It's the implementation of the encryption.
[18:38.080 --> 18:39.240]  The encryption wasn't broken.
[18:39.540 --> 18:40.560]  The key wasn't broken.
[18:40.980 --> 18:42.220]  The implementation was broken.
[18:42.340 --> 18:42.400]  Yeah.
[18:42.680 --> 18:44.400]  And in lock picking, you see the same thing.
[18:44.620 --> 18:48.460]  Most of the time when the lock is compromised, the key is not what was compromised.
[18:48.800 --> 18:51.380]  It was the implementation of the lock that was compromised.
[18:52.520 --> 18:55.280]  So there's, there's, in that sense, there's a great deal of parallels.
[18:55.700 --> 18:55.840]  Right.
[18:55.880 --> 18:59.160]  Because I think something like that can be used to evangelize your position a little bit better.
[18:59.380 --> 18:59.480]  Right?
[18:59.520 --> 19:03.700]  If you say, look, if everybody knows how this lock works, then it's really about the security.
[19:03.700 --> 19:06.020]  That's, that's not how, that's not how they've been taught.
[19:06.220 --> 19:07.140]  That's not how they've been right.
[19:07.340 --> 19:07.660]  No, I understand.
[19:07.820 --> 19:09.860]  I'm just saying in defense of the perspective.
[19:10.260 --> 19:10.320]  Absolutely.
[19:10.320 --> 19:16.820]  You can say, look, there are plenty of other areas that are secure in the world where that security is kept in wide view so that it is more secure.
[19:17.920 --> 19:18.280]  Thank you.
[19:18.280 --> 19:18.900]  I need a clipper chip.
[19:19.320 --> 19:22.820]  Historically, it's a community based around obfuscation and secret knowledge.
[19:23.180 --> 19:23.260]  Yeah.
[19:23.400 --> 19:24.620]  Which we all know is dated.
[19:25.700 --> 19:26.340]  But now you...
[19:26.340 --> 19:26.960]  Do you have a question?
[19:27.280 --> 19:27.620]  And then...
[19:27.620 --> 19:28.060]  Thank you.
[19:28.160 --> 19:29.520]  And then we'll do some history and we'll move on.
[19:29.520 --> 19:35.360]  In the Dutch lockpicking community, we have quite a number of professional locksmiths.
[19:35.400 --> 19:39.280]  And well, so there is change in that community also, which is good.
[19:39.520 --> 19:39.820]  Yeah.
[19:40.100 --> 19:40.260]  Sir.
[19:40.440 --> 19:40.780]  Great.
[19:41.460 --> 19:46.920]  I was coming home one day from work and my neighbor was sitting on his stoop and I didn't recognize him though.
[19:47.060 --> 19:49.080]  And he said he was locked out of his place.
[19:49.980 --> 19:56.360]  You know, I have a lockpicker, I know how to pick locks, but I didn't feel comfortable picking the door for something I did not know in their own place.
[19:56.360 --> 20:01.420]  How did a lockpicker determine the legitimacy of their ownership of the property?
[20:01.660 --> 20:04.020]  And have you been in similar situations yourself?
[20:04.400 --> 20:04.660]  Oh, good question.
[20:04.660 --> 20:05.900]  Do you mind if I repeat the question?
[20:06.100 --> 20:06.340]  Totally.
[20:06.640 --> 20:16.340]  So, the gentleman said he came home from work, he saw a neighbor kind of sitting on the stoop and if I understood you, you sort of maybe recognized him but not really, didn't really recognize him?
[20:16.460 --> 20:17.300]  I hadn't seen him before.
[20:17.680 --> 20:18.840]  And I was like, hey, how are you doing?
[20:19.000 --> 20:20.480]  He's like, I'm locked out of my place.
[20:20.660 --> 20:20.840]  Oh, okay.
[20:20.840 --> 20:22.600]  And then he said, oh, I'm locked out.
[20:23.820 --> 20:25.980]  And did he know that you know how to pick locks?
[20:26.360 --> 20:26.380]  No.
[20:26.720 --> 20:26.980]  All right.
[20:27.180 --> 20:34.400]  So, the ethical dilemma is, if you're a lockpicker and someone is stuck outside of a door, what do you do?
[20:34.540 --> 20:35.020]  That's a big...
[20:35.020 --> 20:36.100]  We get this question a lot.
[20:36.260 --> 20:37.740]  I don't see the ethical dilemma.
[20:38.020 --> 20:39.120]  There's no ethical dilemma.
[20:39.240 --> 20:39.260]  It's a no.
[20:39.500 --> 20:40.440]  In my opinion either.
[20:40.620 --> 20:40.980]  You do nothing.
[20:41.200 --> 20:42.180]  Because people ask us that.
[20:42.260 --> 20:42.840]  That's what I'm saying.
[20:42.840 --> 20:44.000]  I personally wouldn't.
[20:44.420 --> 20:44.560]  You know?
[20:44.720 --> 20:44.900]  Yeah.
[20:45.600 --> 20:45.960]  Unless...
[20:45.960 --> 20:46.400]  I actually...
[20:46.400 --> 20:48.360]  I have opened a lock for...
[20:48.360 --> 20:49.300]  There were two instances.
[20:49.820 --> 20:50.840]  One was a family member.
[20:50.880 --> 20:51.620]  One was a close friend.
[20:52.120 --> 20:54.880]  I knew them both very personally and I knew they owned their house.
[20:55.020 --> 20:56.100]  They weren't rentals.
[20:56.340 --> 20:56.580]  They...
[20:56.580 --> 20:57.120]  Yeah.
[20:57.340 --> 20:58.900]  And I said, hey, you understand?
[20:59.080 --> 20:59.740]  Like, I gave them...
[20:59.740 --> 21:00.620]  It's kind of that whole spiel.
[21:00.720 --> 21:03.960]  You're like, hey, so there's a slight chance this is going to get all f*cked.
[21:04.300 --> 21:04.840]  Do you mind?
[21:04.920 --> 21:05.980]  And they're like, it's raining.
[21:05.980 --> 21:06.600]  I'm cold.
[21:06.660 --> 21:07.500]  I want to get inside.
[21:07.740 --> 21:08.540]  I'm like, all right.
[21:08.780 --> 21:09.560]  I'll see what I can do.
[21:09.700 --> 21:11.180]  Of course, because it's American locks.
[21:11.180 --> 21:12.980]  Like, you're like, oh, boy.
[21:13.360 --> 21:14.380]  That's permission of the owner.
[21:14.560 --> 21:15.080]  Rule number two.
[21:15.260 --> 21:15.380]  Done.
[21:15.680 --> 21:26.320]  And that's, of course, the main reason why we tell people, you know, even if you know, even if you now have the skill and you have this knowledge, even if a friend or a co-worker calls you and says, hey, man, I'm locked out.
[21:26.480 --> 21:27.160]  Can you help me out?
[21:27.500 --> 21:30.560]  Your answer ideally should be no for a variety of reasons.
[21:30.600 --> 21:37.180]  Not because you don't want to help them, but because you are not equipped from several different standpoints to help them.
[21:37.180 --> 21:42.600]  You may have some skill in opening locks, but you don't know how their lock has been designed necessarily.
[21:42.600 --> 21:45.060]  You don't know if it's been master keyed.
[21:45.320 --> 21:45.480]  Yeah.
[21:45.620 --> 21:51.940]  If you break that lock, now you're in kind of an awkward position because you are not a locksmith.
[21:52.060 --> 21:53.640]  So you don't have replacement parts.
[21:53.640 --> 21:55.760]  You don't have bonding and licensing.
[21:55.860 --> 21:58.540]  You don't have insurance to cover damages that might be done.
[21:58.540 --> 22:05.560]  You don't have the ability to quickly order exactly the right part or maybe even the knowledge to know exactly what the right part is in the event of damage.
[22:05.860 --> 22:12.180]  So in that case, it's worth the 50, 60 bucks to get a real honest to God locksmith, you know, come out there.
[22:12.340 --> 22:14.660]  The scammer story Babak told is not the norm.
[22:14.900 --> 22:14.940]  No.
[22:15.100 --> 22:15.800]  That's when you get scammed.
[22:16.040 --> 22:16.160]  Right.
[22:16.280 --> 22:18.480]  If you call a real locksmith, they're there to help you.
[22:18.600 --> 22:19.740]  That's their purpose.
[22:20.100 --> 22:20.180]  Yeah.
[22:20.740 --> 22:20.980]  Thank you.
[22:21.160 --> 22:23.040]  And then render and then we've got to go on.
[22:23.140 --> 22:23.860]  This is great though.
[22:23.920 --> 22:24.280]  We love this.
[22:24.440 --> 22:24.660]  We love this.
[22:24.700 --> 22:24.920]  Thank you.
[22:24.920 --> 22:25.120]  Yes.
[22:25.420 --> 22:25.800]  Microphone.
[22:26.120 --> 22:26.500]  Microphone.
[22:26.540 --> 22:26.920]  I'll repeat.
[22:27.080 --> 22:27.260]  I'll repeat.
[22:29.140 --> 22:29.860]  All right.
[22:30.620 --> 22:32.880]  And I just dropped my keys.
[22:33.620 --> 22:34.400]  Don't show those keys.
[22:34.740 --> 22:35.420]  Don't show them.
[22:35.440 --> 22:35.500]  No.
[22:35.720 --> 22:41.080]  I just wanted to say that I've similar situations, you know, I've opened for friends and, you know, close friends and family.
[22:41.220 --> 22:42.880]  Usually it's like a garage door or something.
[22:43.280 --> 22:44.280]  Don't care if I screw up.
[22:44.580 --> 22:53.220]  But just for that reason, when you get that call, I actually have a couple of locksmiths in town that I know are not crooks or anything like that.
[22:53.220 --> 22:55.340]  And I keep a bunch of their cards with me in my car.
[22:55.900 --> 22:58.120]  So I'd be like, nope, can't help you, but here's a phone number.
[22:58.220 --> 22:58.360]  Absolutely.
[22:58.460 --> 22:58.900]  Same here.
[22:58.980 --> 23:02.460]  That's a great way, by the way, to build a relationship with your local locksmith.
[23:02.660 --> 23:03.360]  Make friends with them.
[23:03.380 --> 23:04.840]  And be like, hey, you know, I'm into locks.
[23:05.000 --> 23:06.660]  By the way, my friends know I'm into locks.
[23:06.940 --> 23:08.680]  I'm not comfortable opening locks for them.
[23:08.760 --> 23:10.000]  I'm sure you as a locksmith understand.
[23:10.000 --> 23:10.860]  They might even give you a better price.
[23:11.000 --> 23:13.640]  You know, can I, you might even give your card out, you know.
[23:13.720 --> 23:20.660]  Yeah, but you have to ease them into it because when you start using all the proper industry terms for everything like that, they look at you really funny.
[23:20.660 --> 23:22.780]  Yeah, it takes time.
[23:23.000 --> 23:25.960]  But I think the analog is, I mean, we're at the security conference.
[23:26.100 --> 23:27.960]  Most people here know computers.
[23:28.600 --> 23:33.980]  I think a number of you guys have a shirt that says, I will not fix your computer.
[23:34.300 --> 23:41.840]  This is the real world analog of that same problem.
[23:42.220 --> 23:45.360]  Don't go there if, well, normally not.
[23:45.360 --> 23:47.780]  Okay, let's, let's keep moving here.
[23:48.000 --> 23:48.300]  Let's keep it moving, yeah.
[23:48.700 --> 23:56.520]  So, one of the things that we've had the delight of experiencing is teaching many different types of people and children.
[23:56.920 --> 24:01.900]  And I know we've all, well, everyone's laughing at the shielding part.
[24:02.020 --> 24:05.680]  But actually, little girls are very good at picking locks.
[24:06.940 --> 24:07.420]  The...
[24:08.540 --> 24:09.360]  Little hands.
[24:09.800 --> 24:10.080]  Anyways.
[24:10.220 --> 24:10.940]  Little hands are best hands.
[24:10.940 --> 24:23.800]  They have, well, well, I mean, I don't want to sound gender specific or, or, or, or unsensitive, but actually some females are more patient and have more dexterity.
[24:24.120 --> 24:28.120]  And, and in, in turn, they can manipulate locks.
[24:28.320 --> 24:30.320]  Maybe they catch on a little better.
[24:30.560 --> 24:34.540]  They also generally don't have the complex of, I'm a guy, I know everything.
[24:34.760 --> 24:36.100]  So I'm going to open this lock instantly.
[24:36.580 --> 24:43.800]  So you, if you approach it from a standpoint of like, I'm going to learn about this and discover this thing, then you have a lot more luck.
[24:44.120 --> 24:44.280]  Yeah.
[24:44.600 --> 24:51.440]  So, so anyways, what the point is that we've get the opportunity to teach a lot of different people, a lot of diversity in our students.
[24:51.840 --> 24:52.280]  Okay.
[24:52.280 --> 25:11.180]  We've had specific, we've had situations, John and I teaching in, in Austin where we had a school of, or a, uh, say school, a small group of, uh, deaf individuals come and, uh, really engage in the whole, in our, uh, teachings and, and, and really enjoy it.
[25:11.420 --> 25:27.420]  You know, it, it was something that, that, you know, may not seem like a big deal, but, you know, to see these people that, um, may usually be, uh, outcasted or discriminated against for whatever reason, uh, really engage in, in what we're teaching.
[25:28.060 --> 25:33.140]  Um, we've had blind, uh, individuals really enjoy Excel.
[25:33.380 --> 25:42.720]  We've had, uh, students, uh, of, with that brought their children, that, uh, the children was, uh, educationally disabled or may had some learning disabilities.
[25:43.140 --> 25:46.680]  So, it's something that, that I can't stress enough.
[25:46.900 --> 25:52.520]  It's so, it's neat and the, the, the lore to do it is, is very high.
[25:52.520 --> 26:02.240]  So, um, the point I'm trying to make, I guess, is that it's something that you can engage somebody in, uh, that, that has a very high success rate.
[26:02.420 --> 26:10.380]  Um, and you can really see people brighten up as they start to, to learn and understand what's going on in, in locks.
[26:10.620 --> 26:23.120]  So, um, with that in mind, I just want to talk a little bit about some of the, some of the the community, uh, organization that we've tried to accomplish over the years.
[26:23.380 --> 26:32.300]  Um, I, I, and I like to use the, uh, analogy or metaphor of, of kind of a, a fire pit or a, a, a, a campfire.
[26:33.120 --> 26:46.060]  So, the issue we've had is we've had, you know, when we're building this campfire, we have our coals, which is our former members, our, our kind of, uh, gurus, the people that have been involved in the law community for a very long time, that have the knowledge.
[26:46.460 --> 26:50.760]  Uh, we have the fuel, which is kind of the active members, the people that keep coming back for more.
[26:51.100 --> 26:58.200]  And then we have our flames, which is our new members, our, our incoming membership, those that are just newly interested.
[26:58.460 --> 27:04.700]  So, our issue here is that we have plenty of coals and we have plenty of fire, but the fuel is kind of missing from the equation.
[27:04.940 --> 27:15.300]  And to give you an example, you know, when we, when we first, when John and I first started hosting events in Austin, we would fill up a conference room of 60 people that would come to our first meeting.
[27:16.300 --> 27:21.680]  And, you know, that were just totally excited about the opportunity to learn how to do something different.
[27:21.680 --> 27:26.840]  And as, as we progressed, you know, the second meeting would happen and there'd be 30 people.
[27:26.940 --> 27:28.880]  The third meeting would happen and there'd be 15 people.
[27:29.000 --> 27:32.620]  So, we were seeing, you know, a, a pretty significant decrease over time.
[27:33.180 --> 27:41.240]  Um, and what, what'd end up happening is, you know, a, a specific organization or specific club in particular would basically be run by one person.
[27:41.400 --> 27:50.760]  And if that person stopped running the organization or lost interest, or maybe even tried to pass it to somebody else, the organization would eventually just, would die.
[27:50.760 --> 28:09.280]  So, while we, we like to brag that we have over 20 organizations around the world, um, relating to Locksport, we, we still have this varying level of interest and, uh, community involvement from each one of these organizations.
[28:09.700 --> 28:16.520]  So, I don't know if we have time to actually go into the details, but offline, if you have suggestions in terms of how to keep this exciting.
[28:17.400 --> 28:21.880]  Um, you know, I'm, I'm definitely willing to, uh, engage about that.
[28:22.800 --> 28:23.320]  So...
[28:23.320 --> 28:26.180]  Yeah, we, we just, we love teaching, right?
[28:26.440 --> 28:30.320]  We love teaching and everyone's busy and everyone is on to the next best thing.
[28:31.200 --> 28:32.820]  And that's, that's, that's what it's about.
[28:33.200 --> 28:34.740]  We want to keep the meetings going.
[28:34.920 --> 28:36.080]  We want to keep people interested.
[28:36.640 --> 28:41.640]  Would you believe New York City, the hardest TOOOL chapter to keep populated?
[28:41.920 --> 28:44.840]  Because you have so much cool shit happening in your city.
[28:45.840 --> 28:52.640]  If, if you, if everyone in this room said, oh, I love lockpicking, I would come like once a year, twice a year.
[28:52.640 --> 28:55.460]  We would have a really solid New York chapter.
[28:55.620 --> 28:56.880]  Come downstairs in the village.
[28:57.040 --> 28:57.600]  Meet Tantric.
[28:57.840 --> 28:59.680]  Meet, like, meet, meet the...
[28:59.680 --> 29:00.720]  Oh, that's Tantric right there.
[29:00.720 --> 29:01.260]  That's you.
[29:01.780 --> 29:02.680]  Meet your New York City chapter.
[29:02.680 --> 29:03.840]  This runs the New York chapter right here.
[29:04.160 --> 29:04.620]  Yay.
[29:07.080 --> 29:07.540]  Yeah.
[29:07.540 --> 29:13.540]  This man has kept it going so hard in the face of everything else that's awesome about your city.
[29:15.480 --> 29:15.940]  Like...
[29:15.940 --> 29:16.900]  You keep talking.
[29:16.960 --> 29:17.280]  They'll get it.
[29:17.820 --> 29:21.020]  I, by no means, am the first organizer of the New York City...
[29:21.020 --> 29:21.500]  Into the mic.
[29:21.700 --> 29:22.100]  Into the mic.
[29:22.100 --> 29:22.160]  Into the mic.
[29:22.900 --> 29:23.960]  I'm, uh...
[29:23.960 --> 29:24.560]  I'm by no means...
[29:24.560 --> 29:25.080]  Just keep trying.
[29:25.640 --> 29:26.400]  They'll get it.
[29:26.880 --> 29:27.720]  I'm by no means.
[29:28.140 --> 29:43.180]  The first organizer of the New York City chapter, but, um, because we're such a large city and because we have interested groups all over in all five boroughs, it's really tough for me and a few select others to make it to every meeting and be everywhere at once.
[29:43.220 --> 29:45.240]  Yeah, it's really hard for him to be everywhere at once.
[29:45.400 --> 29:50.540]  We are not lacking support and backing and, you know, uh, interested people...
[29:50.540 --> 29:52.920]  He's saying very sweet things about the TOOOL leadership now.
[29:53.320 --> 30:00.140]  Well, yeah, so the main thing is, is, um, you know, we do, we have a bunch of people on upstairs, but the truth is...
[30:00.140 --> 30:02.180]  Tantra, come here and just hold this mic.
[30:02.200 --> 30:03.400]  I think there's a problem with that mic.
[30:03.420 --> 30:04.440]  I apologize, everyone.
[30:04.660 --> 30:07.060]  I know how silly it must feel when you're in the back.
[30:07.060 --> 30:07.400]  Sound guy, drink.
[30:09.060 --> 30:18.520]  Yeah, if I hadn't heard them say the exact same thing that I think, you know, like every month when I go to these different meetings around the city, then I wouldn't have been, you know, I wouldn't have felt obligated to get up.
[30:18.640 --> 30:33.860]  The main thing is, is I know a lot of people in this room aren't from New York City, but we're having the biggest problem because we're the biggest city, you know, people come like 50 and then all of a sudden, you know, 20 the next time, eight the next time,
[30:34.200 --> 30:34.440]  three.
[30:34.760 --> 30:40.640]  And I know in the police blotter that these people aren't showing up, you know, like, so I know that it's not my fault.
[30:41.040 --> 30:46.640]  Um, I am a professional locksmith here in New York City and I do believe in the cause.
[30:46.980 --> 30:59.200]  Um, so I think that, you know, yeah, we had to have so many other chapters come here and help us today to do this con because New York City just has so much potential but not enough, you know, fuel.
[30:59.420 --> 31:00.980]  Yeah, I mean, it's not New York City.
[31:01.120 --> 31:01.600]  It's everywhere.
[31:01.740 --> 31:04.840]  So, we have chapters all over Texas.
[31:05.420 --> 31:09.660]  Um, all, you know, TOOOL has chapters all over the country.
[31:10.040 --> 31:10.860]  You know, we have chapters in Canada.
[31:10.860 --> 31:11.940]  All over the world, thank you.
[31:12.260 --> 31:12.920]  Yeah, all over the world.
[31:14.100 --> 31:16.740]  Canada, I think we have a chapter in Kuala Lumpur.
[31:17.240 --> 31:19.940]  Um, you know, there's, there's not a lack of interest.
[31:20.140 --> 31:29.420]  The issue here is really just finding the leadership and, and those willing to continue the, right, continue the, the burning of the campfire.
[31:29.620 --> 31:29.760]  Yeah.
[31:29.900 --> 31:31.880]  We all, like, rate, like, seriously, raise your hand.
[31:31.980 --> 31:33.140]  You've got too much f*cking time.
[31:33.500 --> 31:35.020]  Like, no hands, right?
[31:35.600 --> 31:36.400]  That's, that's life.
[31:36.540 --> 31:37.100]  That's all of us.
[31:37.240 --> 31:38.920]  That's, that's something we all face.
[31:39.140 --> 31:41.020]  Just keep making time for what's important.
[31:41.140 --> 31:50.480]  And if you're organizing something in your local area, don't ever hold it against your people if they're too fascinated with too much cool stuff in their life.
[31:50.680 --> 31:50.740]  Yeah.
[31:50.840 --> 31:51.800]  Because that's going to happen.
[31:52.040 --> 31:52.540]  Like, that's life.
[31:52.740 --> 31:53.880]  That, that's hacker life, anyway.
[31:54.240 --> 31:57.460]  The next best thing, and you want to do that, you want to do that, you want to do the other thing.
[31:58.100 --> 32:00.300]  Who's our favorite person in this room is probably Mouse.
[32:00.700 --> 32:05.220]  And, like, Mouse is spread six ways from Sunday, and she's just, like, you know.
[32:05.220 --> 32:05.560]  She's gone.
[32:05.740 --> 32:06.260]  Prime example.
[32:06.520 --> 32:06.540]  She's already gone.
[32:06.540 --> 32:07.140]  She's already gone.
[32:07.320 --> 32:07.640]  You know.
[32:07.640 --> 32:09.040]  She was one of the founders of Princeton.
[32:09.500 --> 32:09.500]  Yeah.
[32:09.500 --> 32:11.840]  And, you know, her energy is there, but, yeah.
[32:12.060 --> 32:12.360]  Kind of.
[32:12.560 --> 32:13.440]  It gets spread thin.
[32:13.860 --> 32:14.780]  It gets spread pretty thin.
[32:15.040 --> 32:17.680]  So, the, the real mess that we're trying to deliver is get involved.
[32:18.380 --> 32:20.940]  You know, you don't have to be an expert in lockpicking to host a chapter.
[32:21.280 --> 32:21.280]  Yeah, please.
[32:21.780 --> 32:23.860]  The new blood makes it, makes the meetings happen.
[32:24.060 --> 32:24.060]  Yeah.
[32:24.180 --> 32:24.760]  Talk to us.
[32:24.760 --> 32:25.340]  We'll help you.
[32:25.400 --> 32:26.120]  We'll send you gear.
[32:26.260 --> 32:27.940]  We'll make it worth your while, I promise.
[32:28.140 --> 32:28.140]  Oh, yeah.
[32:28.140 --> 32:29.440]  We'll send you so much free shit.
[32:29.580 --> 32:29.800]  Yeah.
[32:29.920 --> 32:31.500]  I mean, it'll be fine.
[32:31.640 --> 32:37.200]  And then, you'll get to say that you're, you know, president of a local chapter, and you'll get to come on stage and talk about it one day.
[32:38.320 --> 32:42.440]  We don't, we don't want to make cost ever a barrier to entry.
[32:42.780 --> 32:46.140]  So, like, you know, you, you guys come down to the village and you see us selling tools.
[32:46.880 --> 32:50.000]  None of that money goes to pay anyone's paycheck.
[32:50.160 --> 32:50.980]  There are no paychecks.
[32:51.080 --> 32:52.980]  Everyone's, everyone's volunteering their time.
[32:53.120 --> 33:02.900]  All that money goes back into running the communities, paying for us to come out to different events, to hold the events, buying new locks, supplying chapters with more equipment.
[33:04.160 --> 33:13.880]  So, if it, you know, once, once there's a group of people that say consistently, you know, over time, hey, we're here, we're picking locks, we will send you so much stuff.
[33:14.620 --> 33:16.340]  So, you don't have to go out of pocket.
[33:16.600 --> 33:17.140]  Do it for the children.
[33:18.880 --> 33:19.940]  Seriously, the kids.
[33:20.120 --> 33:22.500]  That's, I mean, a lot of kids.
[33:22.860 --> 33:23.720]  The little hands.
[33:25.820 --> 33:28.160]  All right, we're gonna find a different... Yeah.
[33:28.600 --> 33:35.120]  We're gonna have Jay Gore tell a really cool small story, and then Ray tell a slightly longer story, and then Yost talk for a second.
[33:35.320 --> 33:39.740]  And it's all about when people say, how do you find these crazy flaws and locks?
[33:40.380 --> 33:44.060]  There's a number of weird ways it happens, but they're all kind of rooted in the same thing.
[33:44.120 --> 33:46.300]  So, if you got the clicker, rock and roll.
[33:46.620 --> 33:46.840]  Yeah.
[33:47.140 --> 33:55.000]  So, once we get past the basics, we're picking standard padlocks and door locks and doing competitions with that.
[33:55.460 --> 34:07.600]  Some of us who have been more involved with it longer, go for more interesting new designs of locks, seeing if we can attack those and find out new attacks, new ways to defeat these locks that are coming out on the market.
[34:07.900 --> 34:10.620]  And I've got just a really quick little one that I thought was pretty cool.
[34:12.200 --> 34:14.460]  This is a Kensington USB lock.
[34:15.180 --> 34:26.180]  The idea here is this little red piece sticks into one USB port, and then they sell the piece in the bottom right there that hooks into the adjacent one.
[34:26.300 --> 34:35.980]  So, you're able to lock a USB cable into the computer theoretically in a way that an attacker could not pull it out and, for example, put in a malicious USB stick.
[34:37.200 --> 34:38.220]  Did we kill the whiskey?
[34:39.540 --> 34:43.340]  So, sometimes you can dissect a lock and see how it works that way.
[34:43.460 --> 34:44.040]  Just take it apart.
[34:44.580 --> 34:48.040]  I'm not as mechanically inclined as some of the other people on the stage.
[34:48.040 --> 34:53.040]  So, what I did is I just Googled the lock, specifically looking for patent documents about it.
[34:53.840 --> 34:56.560]  So, this is from the Google Patents.
[34:56.880 --> 35:01.220]  It shows a breakdown of exactly how this lock works, how they got the patent for the design.
[35:02.140 --> 35:10.260]  And you'll start seeing parallels with the basic intro to lock picking that we covered much earlier, in that you've got two rows of pins in there.
[35:10.860 --> 35:13.700]  You've got a shear line, which is where they separate from each other.
[35:15.640 --> 35:17.360]  And really, that's all you need.
[35:17.460 --> 35:21.820]  You can then pick it with the same principle that we've been showing you this whole talk.
[35:24.900 --> 35:26.000]  We've got a cool video, right?
[35:26.260 --> 35:26.480]  Yeah.
[35:26.840 --> 35:27.560]  So, here's a video.
[35:27.820 --> 35:30.120]  I've got a USB charger here that I'm just sticking the lock into.
[35:30.540 --> 35:39.760]  As you can see, the normal lock, you just stick it straight in, pull down a little bit, and then the lock itself pops out and you're able to pull the USB piece out.
[35:40.220 --> 35:41.620]  So, this is how I attacked it.
[35:41.780 --> 35:44.940]  I just took a bobby pin, a hair pin, cracked it in half.
[35:45.860 --> 35:48.600]  I'm going to use that to apply my tension or torsion force.
[35:48.740 --> 35:53.360]  I'm pushing the shear line the same way you would normally push the key.
[35:53.820 --> 35:59.780]  And then I'm just going to push a short hook pick in there and push the pin straight down into the lock the same way I would normally pick the pins.
[35:59.780 --> 36:01.040]  So, it's like a pump lock, basically?
[36:01.320 --> 36:03.100]  Like a radial, right?
[36:03.560 --> 36:04.280]  Yeah, exactly.
[36:07.140 --> 36:11.500]  And if we can set all three of those pins far enough down to the right depth, we're going to hit that shear line.
[36:12.280 --> 36:13.100]  And there we go.
[36:13.320 --> 36:14.220]  The lock pops open.
[36:17.120 --> 36:21.240]  So, you can, too, be a vulnerability researcher very easily.
[36:21.600 --> 36:24.760]  And that's, again, going back to the low barrier entry here.
[36:26.380 --> 36:27.140]  Here's the clicker.
[36:28.980 --> 36:31.960]  And now we got Ray telling you about some fun stuff, too.
[36:34.540 --> 36:36.840]  Yeah, it's basically the same story.
[36:36.960 --> 36:38.240]  A new lock came onto the market.
[36:38.260 --> 36:40.880]  I'm not sure if anybody of you has seen it.
[36:41.040 --> 36:42.940]  It's, I think, already two years old or something.
[36:43.260 --> 36:45.040]  But it's a digital padlock.
[36:45.220 --> 36:46.320]  So, I think it's quite unique.
[36:47.000 --> 36:49.280]  And so, of course, if something like that... Oh, damn it.
[36:49.640 --> 36:50.520]  Get me that cable.
[36:50.760 --> 36:51.880]  Oh, we have lost the video.
[36:52.080 --> 36:52.460]  Drink.
[36:52.820 --> 36:54.160]  But in the time, I'll use this.
[36:54.540 --> 36:54.960]  Thank you.
[36:56.360 --> 36:56.880]  There we go.
[36:57.860 --> 36:58.340]  It's a goner.
[36:58.700 --> 37:01.500]  But basically, it's a digital padlock.
[37:01.620 --> 37:04.720]  And if you enter a code, you can open it.
[37:05.340 --> 37:06.520]  So, this is a smart idea.
[37:07.300 --> 37:09.880]  And, of course, the first thing when we get something like this...
[37:11.660 --> 37:12.360]  Do we have it?
[37:12.740 --> 37:13.720]  No, you have still no video.
[37:14.480 --> 37:15.020]  Press again.
[37:15.680 --> 37:16.080]  There we go.
[37:16.300 --> 37:18.900]  So, one nice feature, of course, I also thought about battery.
[37:19.300 --> 37:26.600]  If the battery runs empty, you see in the second picture, you can put up a second battery into the battery slot, which is an important feature we see later on.
[37:26.800 --> 37:30.000]  So, you can pull out the battery slot a little if the lock is closed.
[37:30.420 --> 37:33.520]  So, the first thing we do when we get a new lock, of course, is...
[37:33.520 --> 37:34.520]  ...disassemble it.
[37:34.800 --> 37:36.740]  So, if the battery is dead, you can pull...
[37:36.740 --> 37:37.560]  Not sure where's the laser point?
[37:37.560 --> 37:39.080]  Like we do with all the toys, basically.
[37:40.320 --> 37:41.100]  Yeah, you got it.
[37:41.200 --> 37:41.380]  Okay.
[37:42.740 --> 37:49.820]  So, the main important part, of course, here is the PCB, which contains the electronics, and the locking element, which opens the lock.
[37:50.140 --> 37:56.540]  In case of this lock, it's a small motor, here, and a moving part, which interacts with the shackle.
[37:57.500 --> 38:08.800]  So, it's quite a good design, actually, because in many other locks, there's only a small magnet pulling or pushing something in it out, and those can be often vibrated, or you just hammer on them and then open.
[38:09.040 --> 38:13.240]  This is actually a rotating motor that we thought, oh, it's a very, very smart mechanical design.
[38:14.300 --> 38:16.180]  Let's have a closer look at the electronics.
[38:17.420 --> 38:21.520]  So, the first thing we noted is that it's a basic standard microcontroller.
[38:21.660 --> 38:24.160]  I'm not sure many people here use Arduino, I guess.
[38:24.160 --> 38:26.160]  It's the most common platform for microcontroller programming.
[38:26.540 --> 38:30.580]  But there's also Texas Instruments, who have the MSP430 controller.
[38:30.800 --> 38:33.820]  It's a very simple microcontroller for low-power applications.
[38:34.000 --> 38:37.660]  Actually, a lock is a low-power application, because you want to run it on a battery a very long time.
[38:38.300 --> 38:39.680]  But everything is online.
[38:39.840 --> 38:43.260]  You get documentation, you get programming tools and stuff like that.
[38:43.620 --> 38:44.820]  So, that was a really nice thing.
[38:45.020 --> 38:49.340]  We knew, okay, this microcontroller we can use and program and do everything we want with.
[38:54.880 --> 38:57.580]  The rest of the PCB is also quite interesting.
[38:58.380 --> 39:01.720]  Because this is actually how the PCB is aligned in the lock.
[39:02.640 --> 39:05.500]  One thing we noted is, here's the battery.
[39:05.900 --> 39:09.560]  And if you take out the battery, you have quite some access to the lock.
[39:10.760 --> 39:11.960]  Because, here's the motor.
[39:15.260 --> 39:16.480]  And that's power...
[39:16.480 --> 39:17.400]  Yeah, you see where he's going with this.
[39:18.620 --> 39:19.880]  That's the power for the motor.
[39:19.880 --> 39:20.220]  It could possibly go wrong.
[39:20.560 --> 39:25.680]  So, the only thing you have to apply is some three-volt or something here, and the motor turns and the lock opens.
[39:26.480 --> 39:29.000]  But that, of course, is quite difficult through the battery slot.
[39:29.040 --> 39:30.120]  And, of course, it's boring.
[39:30.360 --> 39:31.140]  I mean, you can do it.
[39:31.200 --> 39:33.360]  You can fiddle around with wires and stuff like that.
[39:33.720 --> 39:36.220]  But the other thing is here, on the other side.
[39:37.440 --> 39:38.760]  It's the flash contacts.
[39:41.000 --> 39:43.180]  So, if you attach those...
[39:45.850 --> 39:46.330]  Perfect.
[39:47.690 --> 39:52.730]  If you attach those to a standard TI programming unit, you get access to the microcontroller.
[39:52.870 --> 39:54.530]  And you can read out the memory and everything.
[39:54.850 --> 39:56.270]  You can read out the firmware.
[39:56.550 --> 39:57.810]  And you can write new firmware.
[39:57.910 --> 39:59.430]  Actually, it's a nice development tool.
[40:02.590 --> 40:07.770]  At the last lock corner, I had a reflashed version of this lock, which has a Simon Says function.
[40:08.030 --> 40:11.190]  So, it shows you a combination, and you have to replay it to open it.
[40:13.670 --> 40:15.110]  And it was quite some fun.
[40:15.330 --> 40:16.770]  Actually, I think it's a new concept.
[40:16.930 --> 40:18.810]  With this lock, you can't lock people out.
[40:19.070 --> 40:23.450]  You don't have a secret, but you can people out who are too drunk to open the cupboard.
[40:25.150 --> 40:29.350]  So, I would recommend locking expensive tools with it in your HackerSpace.
[40:29.350 --> 40:31.290]  So, wait, and all of a sudden it's on and so is what happens.
[40:31.350 --> 40:32.270]  After you've got the wrong combination.
[40:33.410 --> 40:33.990]  Nothing happened.
[40:34.390 --> 40:35.610]  There was no extra.
[40:35.690 --> 40:36.330]  No, no, no.
[40:36.570 --> 40:38.910]  But the combination got longer every time you opened it.
[40:38.990 --> 40:41.270]  So, it was quite a challenge after a few guys did it.
[40:41.950 --> 40:47.790]  But, of course, this you can do when soldering wires to it and everything like that, which is not a very common attack for a lock, I would say.
[40:48.290 --> 40:52.330]  So, I went back to my laser cutter, which you might remember, and built this.
[40:53.710 --> 41:02.550]  This actually is a flash unit which perfectly fits into the battery slot and exactly reaches for those flash points.
[41:03.490 --> 41:08.330]  So, if I take a lock and pay out the battery slot, which is quite possible because it's...
[41:08.330 --> 41:08.950]  Let me see.
[41:09.610 --> 41:10.250]  There we go.
[41:10.410 --> 41:10.510]  Yeah.
[41:10.810 --> 41:19.370]  Because it's mechanic, you pull out the battery slot, put in the flash tool and it exactly hits the right point so you can reprogram from EPC.
[41:20.370 --> 41:25.850]  So, as a vulnerability researcher, the first thing I said, okay, let's have a look at the firmware.
[41:26.250 --> 41:28.450]  So, we dumped the firmware, which looks like...
[41:28.450 --> 41:30.450]  not the whole firmware, there's only a part of it, of course.
[41:31.330 --> 41:32.790]  Very easy to read, I think.
[41:34.850 --> 41:36.350]  Everybody recognizes what this does?
[41:38.470 --> 41:39.590]  It's the matrix, right?
[41:39.790 --> 41:44.450]  But actually, when you disassemble it, it's the open the lock code.
[41:44.970 --> 41:51.810]  Because we identified that by knowing which pins to trigger, we looked in the source code where these pins triggered, so we find the code, this opens the lock.
[41:52.170 --> 41:54.970]  Of course, our intention was to find, is there any back door?
[41:55.350 --> 41:58.750]  And actually, I have to admit, I didn't find one, but we didn't look too close.
[41:59.090 --> 42:00.910]  So, we look, where is this code called?
[42:01.010 --> 42:03.270]  Is there any suspicious part where this code is called?
[42:03.890 --> 42:06.390]  So, so far we didn't find any back doors in the firmware.
[42:06.590 --> 42:10.610]  I think the firmware does what it does, but that's not a really guarantee because we didn't look too close.
[42:10.610 --> 42:15.990]  But another thing you can read from the, from the flash, is the so-called info memory.
[42:16.210 --> 42:21.410]  This is a thing where it stores basically, where firmware stores stuff, dynamic stuff.
[42:21.530 --> 42:24.010]  For example, the codes you enter for your lock.
[42:25.130 --> 42:28.290]  So, this, the top five rows are the most interesting.
[42:28.430 --> 42:29.530]  The rest, I think, is unused.
[42:30.170 --> 42:34.870]  In this second to fourth row, there's a user, user codes are stored.
[42:35.110 --> 42:38.470]  But the interesting part is, in the first row, the master code is stored.
[42:39.110 --> 42:41.310]  This master code is different for every lock.
[42:41.450 --> 42:43.670]  And you actually can get it from master lock when you buy it.
[42:43.750 --> 42:45.990]  And you can send, go online, I want my master code.
[42:46.210 --> 42:47.450]  But you can't change it.
[42:47.970 --> 42:52.190]  So, when I put my flash tool into somebody's lock, I can read out the master code.
[42:52.950 --> 42:56.370]  And it's basically just four values for the four directions.
[42:56.790 --> 42:58.490]  And he can't even change it anymore.
[42:58.650 --> 43:00.050]  So, I don't need a back door in the firmware.
[43:00.350 --> 43:01.650]  Back door is already built in.
[43:01.710 --> 43:02.970]  I can read out the master code.
[43:04.550 --> 43:06.230]  So, having access to this...
[43:06.230 --> 43:07.910]  Left, down, right, up, right, down?
[43:07.910 --> 43:09.030]  He's trying to read it.
[43:09.130 --> 43:09.990]  Yeah, it looks like it.
[43:10.050 --> 43:10.850]  You can see it, man.
[43:11.210 --> 43:11.810]  It's crazy.
[43:12.410 --> 43:15.570]  The fun thing, actually, is you see these hex values there.
[43:16.270 --> 43:21.650]  This actually is the exact bits of the buttons attached to the microcontroller.
[43:21.850 --> 43:24.010]  And what we see here, the first, is a nine.
[43:24.530 --> 43:26.250]  Which is more than one bit.
[43:26.650 --> 43:31.790]  And actually, when you have to enter the original master code, you have to press the center button in one direction as the first.
[43:31.790 --> 43:34.310]  And then you have to enter the code.
[43:34.810 --> 43:38.450]  Which means we can add more codes than the original firmware supports.
[43:38.710 --> 43:41.530]  I could add a code like you have to press left and right together.
[43:41.670 --> 43:43.350]  Then you have to press up and down together.
[43:43.770 --> 43:47.450]  So, the firmware actually can do more than the manual says.
[43:47.670 --> 43:47.830]  Cool.
[43:48.570 --> 43:53.150]  But, okay, all these attacks are quite difficult, quite...
[43:53.150 --> 43:53.810]  You can do it.
[43:53.890 --> 43:58.730]  Oh, we put in a flash tool and we build this special thing and you pray out the battery and so...
[43:58.730 --> 44:06.710]  So, I don't think that's really what excite anybody as a real vulnerability of the lock, which is used at a high school locker or something.
[44:06.930 --> 44:10.230]  So, people wiring around there would possibly be suspicious.
[44:10.790 --> 44:14.470]  But, of course, there's always a second method of attack for electronic locks.
[44:17.590 --> 44:18.630]  How do they work?
[44:19.410 --> 44:22.090]  Ah, this mysterious power of magnetism.
[44:22.850 --> 44:30.010]  And the nice thing about magnet attack and this lock is that, of course, many people tried to open it with magnets and they failed.
[44:30.190 --> 44:34.670]  And even the manufacturer tried to open it with magnets and failed.
[44:36.210 --> 44:37.170]  But still...
[44:37.170 --> 44:38.010]  Yeah.
[44:38.930 --> 44:41.750]  I think this was shot at the CCC Congress some time ago.
[44:41.850 --> 44:42.430]  It looks like it.
[44:43.590 --> 44:44.550]  A rocket.
[44:45.090 --> 44:46.490]  Watch the special move.
[44:46.650 --> 44:47.270]  It's a very...
[44:47.270 --> 44:52.630]  You have to change polarity and you have to move two times with a very good choice.
[44:53.070 --> 44:54.450]  Of course, it's the right direction.
[44:54.550 --> 44:55.190]  It's the right spot.
[44:55.570 --> 44:56.550]  And it's open.
[45:05.740 --> 45:17.600]  So, as I said, of course, before doing that and especially before showing that anybody, which is already over a year ago, we contacted the company and said, oh, I think we found something you should know before we tell anybody.
[45:18.080 --> 45:19.800]  And they said, no, it can't be.
[45:19.900 --> 45:22.460]  Our research department tried magnets, magnets don't work.
[45:23.180 --> 45:28.120]  And I'm not sure if we actually sent them the video or if it explains the exact method.
[45:28.360 --> 45:30.340]  But they said, oh, yes, it opens.
[45:31.520 --> 45:33.120]  And now we tried to change something.
[45:33.120 --> 45:38.680]  So, the main question is, and that's the main research topic here, why didn't they find it and we did?
[45:39.340 --> 45:40.960]  And I think it's a different approach.
[45:41.260 --> 45:43.600]  First of all, they don't want to be their lock, to be vulnerable.
[45:44.320 --> 45:47.780]  And the second thing is, I don't think they think too much about it.
[45:47.840 --> 45:49.960]  They just heard, oh, magnets work on these locks.
[45:49.960 --> 45:52.080]  So, possibly they just take a...
[45:52.080 --> 45:53.320]  One more.
[45:53.420 --> 45:58.720]  They just take a lock and they take a magnet and say, oh, possibly it pulls something and...
[45:58.720 --> 45:59.700]  No, it didn't.
[46:00.140 --> 46:01.060]  Actually, that was it.
[46:01.320 --> 46:04.700]  All known attacks for these kinds of locks are pulling or pushing something.
[46:05.780 --> 46:08.220]  Of course, that doesn't work here.
[46:08.780 --> 46:20.020]  But the main thing we did, or exactly MH, which is one of our group members who did find this magnetic attack did, he cut off a lock and make a closed working version where you could lock inside.
[46:20.400 --> 46:26.740]  And this way you can see, actually, the motor, how it interacts with the shackle and everything, and what it does when you use the magnet.
[46:26.940 --> 46:29.020]  So, I can see, no, that doesn't do anything.
[46:29.240 --> 46:30.440]  Oh, that doesn't do anything.
[46:30.760 --> 46:32.700]  Ah, when I move it a few times, I get stuck.
[46:32.720 --> 46:36.260]  And when I change polarity, I can move it any farther and they get stuck again.
[46:36.320 --> 46:38.120]  So, I change polarity and move any farther.
[46:38.500 --> 46:47.480]  So, this methodical approach, where we really have a cut-off model, and you see what's working inside and you're technically interested, that leads you to find these attacks.
[46:48.020 --> 46:51.800]  And that's basically the point I wanted to present, that it's a...
[46:51.800 --> 46:56.420]  Yeah, you have to think like a lock picker, not like a manufacturer to find these things.
[46:58.040 --> 47:01.140]  So, open your locks and be interested in what works inside.
[47:02.460 --> 47:02.720]  Cool.
[47:03.880 --> 47:04.960]  So, that's the part.
[47:09.950 --> 47:13.210]  Jos Reis, would you like to talk about what you did?
[47:23.310 --> 47:27.710]  We're running out of literally memory on a MacBook, in fact, because this is so image heavy.
[47:29.590 --> 47:30.590]  Did we lose the connection?
[47:30.850 --> 47:30.990]  No?
[47:31.130 --> 47:32.410]  Oh, there we go.
[47:34.750 --> 47:35.370]  One more.
[47:35.590 --> 47:36.250]  There it is.
[47:37.630 --> 47:38.030]  Sorry.
[47:38.030 --> 47:38.910]  Let's try this again.
[47:39.630 --> 47:40.810]  Kind of worked the last time.
[47:41.110 --> 47:41.370]  Howdy.
[47:43.870 --> 47:45.870]  This is a Euro profile cylinder.
[47:46.430 --> 47:51.510]  If you look at the RAND thingy, that's similar as the guys you have.
[47:52.470 --> 47:53.610]  Similar as you guys.
[47:53.930 --> 47:56.670]  And this is, well, a profile we call the Euro profile.
[47:57.010 --> 47:58.310]  But it's a lock.
[47:58.510 --> 48:00.630]  That's basically what you have to be going for.
[48:00.630 --> 48:06.490]  If I look at this keyhole, there's a shape.
[48:07.770 --> 48:13.830]  This key shapes, some locks have a restricted key profile.
[48:14.130 --> 48:21.690]  That means you cannot go into a normal lock shop and ask for a copy of your key if your key has a restricted profile.
[48:22.330 --> 48:28.350]  So the restriction is a piece of metal, sorry, that's shaped like this.
[48:30.890 --> 48:35.650]  So it's not even security by obscurity, because you're showing this, right?
[48:36.270 --> 48:43.610]  So if you take a picture of this and get it through an engine, you come up with a form like that.
[48:43.610 --> 48:44.850]  That should be doable.
[48:46.270 --> 48:50.270]  Again, if you look closely at this picture, you see the pin.
[48:51.030 --> 48:52.010]  The first pin.
[48:52.710 --> 48:55.730]  There's no key in there, otherwise you wouldn't be able to see that pin.
[48:56.010 --> 48:59.230]  So you see what the pin looks in rest.
[48:59.230 --> 49:05.590]  So this is the, well, for your perspective, because you're used to seeing this lock upside down.
[49:06.350 --> 49:10.750]  This is the lowest point that this pin can be.
[49:12.530 --> 49:13.630]  Why am I saying this?
[49:13.830 --> 49:19.350]  Well, the lowest point is, well, what we lock sports people talk about.
[49:19.710 --> 49:20.930]  That's the nine cut.
[49:21.070 --> 49:21.950]  That's the lowest cut.
[49:22.430 --> 49:24.630]  And a 999 key is a bump key.
[49:26.430 --> 49:37.590]  So with having the correct profile and the correct depth, you don't need that much more info to make a bump key.
[49:38.590 --> 49:39.290]  That's fun.
[49:39.590 --> 49:41.290]  So we're going to make an app for that.
[49:41.950 --> 49:45.890]  What you need is to make a picture of your...
[49:45.890 --> 49:48.330]  We're not going to release it, but we're going to make it.
[49:49.770 --> 49:50.290]  Duh.
[49:51.430 --> 49:57.470]  So we're currently making an app that you can put a... upload a picture in.
[49:57.750 --> 49:59.990]  A picture of a key profile.
[50:01.410 --> 50:04.370]  It'll automatically generate this waveform.
[50:04.990 --> 50:13.530]  And what you do then is put a piece of metal in your lock to feel how deep your last pin is.
[50:14.610 --> 50:19.870]  Then you slide that piece of metal out, count the number of snaps.
[50:20.150 --> 50:22.430]  You've seen Dev do it in front of a microphone before.
[50:23.170 --> 50:23.890]  One, two, three, four, five.
[50:23.990 --> 50:24.830]  Oh, it's a five pin lock.
[50:25.270 --> 50:26.510]  And measure the first one.
[50:27.090 --> 50:32.010]  So what you have then is all the info you need to generate this.
[50:33.230 --> 50:36.590]  Now, the key profile I showed you here is not protected.
[50:37.030 --> 50:38.590]  That's not a restricted key profile.
[50:40.290 --> 50:41.370]  This is.
[50:41.810 --> 50:44.010]  This is an icon SK6.
[50:44.550 --> 50:46.070]  That is a protective key profile.
[50:46.270 --> 50:51.350]  And if you look at the swirly thingy here, that's kind of a bitch to pick.
[50:51.990 --> 50:58.030]  Because, I mean, and that, I'm not even talking about mushroom pins and stuff like that.
[50:58.230 --> 50:58.990]  And it just...
[50:58.990 --> 51:02.890]  Oh, can you explain what a restricted key profile is?
[51:03.010 --> 51:03.770]  I kind of tried that.
[51:04.190 --> 51:04.410]  You did?
[51:04.810 --> 51:05.090]  Yeah.
[51:05.970 --> 51:09.950]  Like, it means the blanks, the key blanks are not on the open market.
[51:10.170 --> 51:13.750]  You can't just walk into a shop and ask for the key, copy the key, et cetera.
[51:14.130 --> 51:14.410]  Yeah.
[51:14.410 --> 51:16.290]  Because they're protected by trademark and copyright.
[51:16.510 --> 51:16.830]  That's it.
[51:17.270 --> 51:25.190]  What you normally can do, I mean, what you sometimes can do, if the key profile is protected, they're still selling the logs sometimes.
[51:25.650 --> 51:31.190]  So you can buy the same log and have, of course, a key that fits in that profile because it comes with the log.
[51:31.430 --> 51:33.790]  So you can cut your bump key to that.
[51:34.070 --> 51:41.530]  But sometimes if you're a big factory or whatever and you need a shitload of these, then you have your own profile.
[51:41.750 --> 51:45.710]  So there would be no way, normally, to get those blanks.
[51:46.190 --> 51:52.430]  And, well, not having those blanks means, well, you can't make bump keys, or you can't impression, or whatever.
[51:52.770 --> 51:55.770]  Because sometimes blanks are useful.
[51:56.990 --> 52:00.550]  So this one, you saw the picture of the other one.
[52:01.510 --> 52:09.530]  Well, if you put that to the same engine, this is actually the key that goes in and you see all kinds of weird stuff sticking out.
[52:09.870 --> 52:12.670]  If you put it to the same engine, you end up with this.
[52:13.290 --> 52:14.010]  That's a blank.
[52:14.850 --> 52:26.470]  And if you cut that to code, to the lowest level, or decode it, like I just said, and put that in the engine, and ship that to Shapeways, you turn up with this.
[52:28.830 --> 52:33.150]  And currently, we're using Shapeways, well, actually, Decoder is.
[52:33.550 --> 52:37.330]  That's a friend of ours who is doing this research, and we are kind of elaborating on that one.
[52:38.050 --> 52:41.090]  He's shipping it to Shapeways because they print in nylon.
[52:42.110 --> 52:44.770]  Nylon turns out to be awesome.
[52:46.370 --> 52:54.650]  At Hack42, which is in Arnhem, which is in the Netherlands, which is in Europe, we're trying to print in bronze, and we're trying other stuff as well.
[52:54.870 --> 52:56.330]  And we're kind of in the process of doing that.
[52:57.630 --> 53:05.490]  And the plan was to put some pictures in here of our last bronze casting, which failed this morning, so it didn't make the slide deck.
[53:06.230 --> 53:08.070]  And, well, we're getting there.
[53:08.190 --> 53:11.650]  So it's still research, well, ongoing.
[53:12.930 --> 53:16.350]  But we can make bump keys actually doing this.
[53:16.590 --> 53:19.330]  Here you see an open one that's actually bumped.
[53:19.590 --> 53:21.970]  And there you go.
[53:22.530 --> 53:23.570]  That's your bump key.
[53:24.770 --> 53:30.730]  And there's a washer around it to protect the actual cylinder from some dents.
[53:31.030 --> 53:32.550]  And it makes it more springy.
[53:34.430 --> 53:37.670]  And, of course, it fits because, well, it's too cold.
[53:38.170 --> 53:38.730]  What's happening?
[53:39.790 --> 53:40.530]  Did I miss one?
[53:40.630 --> 53:41.290]  I didn't do nothing.
[53:44.860 --> 53:45.700]  Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
[53:46.700 --> 53:47.080]  There you go.
[53:47.220 --> 53:47.540]  There you go.
[53:48.600 --> 53:49.180]  With a repeat.
[53:50.460 --> 53:52.640]  So it's, well, looks like a bump key.
[53:52.760 --> 53:53.280]  Maybe it is.
[53:53.720 --> 53:54.620]  Let's see how it goes.
[53:54.620 --> 53:55.020]  Okay.
[53:55.320 --> 53:57.180]  So that's the profile.
[53:57.440 --> 54:01.560]  It's the same weird, swervy form that, well, basically is the lock.
[54:01.840 --> 54:02.740]  And hence it fits.
[54:03.880 --> 54:08.900]  And what is demonstrated now is not the best bumping technique, but it works.
[54:10.660 --> 54:12.020]  So bangy-bangy.
[54:14.280 --> 54:15.200]  It's not working.
[54:16.300 --> 54:22.400]  Keep in mind, this is a quite serious high-profile, high-security cylinder.
[54:22.840 --> 54:29.320]  If you were able to bump this, some people would get a less-than-optimum weekend.
[54:29.540 --> 54:30.240]  Let's put it like that.
[54:31.120 --> 54:32.940]  So it's not open.
[54:33.240 --> 54:38.960]  It's basically going to keep, so it's catch some security mushroom.
[54:41.900 --> 54:42.780]  And...
[54:44.060 --> 54:45.320]  Come on.
[54:45.760 --> 54:46.560]  Boom.
[54:46.720 --> 54:46.940]  Open.
[54:53.710 --> 54:59.690]  So basically, if I see your keyhole, there's an app for that.
[55:01.730 --> 55:06.410]  So if you've never tried bumping, if you've never learned it, come to the lockpick village.
[55:06.670 --> 55:07.730]  We breezed by...
[55:07.730 --> 55:08.710]  A lot of people...
[55:08.710 --> 55:08.870]  Sorry.
[55:09.050 --> 55:09.810]  You've heard bumping?
[55:10.290 --> 55:11.430]  Who hasn't heard of bumping?
[55:11.950 --> 55:12.210]  All right.
[55:12.370 --> 55:13.050]  Come to the village.
[55:13.290 --> 55:14.730]  Render man a question, then Jaygore.
[55:14.870 --> 55:14.950]  Yes.
[55:15.690 --> 55:16.390]  Quick question.
[55:16.390 --> 55:20.450]  Is your app able to help duplicate existing keys with the keyway?
[55:20.450 --> 55:23.830]  Is your app able to duplicate existing keys with the keyway?
[55:23.930 --> 55:25.210]  Like a photo of the key, you mean?
[55:25.630 --> 55:28.930]  Not yet, but that's about three extra lines of code.
[55:29.330 --> 55:29.730]  Doable.
[55:30.890 --> 55:31.690]  So, doable.
[55:33.110 --> 55:35.690]  Come down to the village, and we'll talk about making you part of the beta.
[55:36.490 --> 55:39.710]  Jaygore, and then we're going to wrap it up and let people go, you know, drink some more.
[55:40.070 --> 55:40.550]  All right.
[55:40.550 --> 55:46.190]  So, those of you who have not been active in lockpicking before, hopefully are excited about it now.
[55:46.310 --> 55:46.690]  We hope so.
[55:47.170 --> 55:49.610]  We're going to give you some resources on how to find out more about this.
[55:49.750 --> 55:50.690]  I would like to know more.
[55:51.470 --> 55:51.870]  Cool.
[55:52.190 --> 55:53.610]  So, there's some great books out there.
[55:53.770 --> 55:56.650]  A couple of which have been written by Deviant here on the panel.
[55:56.930 --> 55:57.590]  Awesome books.
[55:58.930 --> 56:02.830]  We've got great video resources if you just search on YouTube for lockpicking.
[56:03.290 --> 56:05.710]  We mentioned Skylertown a couple times in this presentation.
[56:05.910 --> 56:09.630]  Can't say enough about his charisma and enthusiasm about teaching lockpicking.
[56:09.630 --> 56:11.890]  He's got a great series of videos out there.
[56:12.070 --> 56:12.910]  Just search for him on YouTube.
[56:14.870 --> 56:18.910]  Another of my favorite resources is lockpicking forums online.
[56:19.190 --> 56:24.290]  So, like lockpicking101.com, which we actually have the admin in the audience, I think, squelched down here.
[56:25.190 --> 56:25.950]  There he is.
[56:26.410 --> 56:28.410]  Another one, keypicking.com.
[56:29.490 --> 56:30.170]  Let's see.
[56:30.310 --> 56:32.410]  So, you can go to the official toool.us website.
[56:33.470 --> 56:35.250]  Toool.nl, as well, for the Netherlands.
[56:36.550 --> 56:37.190]  You guys?
[56:37.530 --> 56:38.010]  Locksport.
[56:38.010 --> 56:39.370]  Our website, locksport.com.
[56:39.370 --> 56:50.010]  We've got a pretty cool comic book style guide that walks you through the process of learning how to pick a lock, how to take it apart, repin it, and even build your own tools if you don't have any official lockpicks.
[56:50.250 --> 56:53.330]  So, that's a great beginner guide we like to point people at.
[56:54.350 --> 56:55.030]  What else?
[56:56.150 --> 56:57.070]  Blackbag.nl.
[56:57.330 --> 57:00.890]  Fantastic blog that was started by Barry Wells in the Netherlands.
[57:00.890 --> 57:04.590]  Now, taken over by the new TOOOL leadership.
[57:05.090 --> 57:05.210]  Okay.
[57:06.070 --> 57:07.250]  It's still actively running.
[57:07.410 --> 57:08.110]  Great content there.
[57:09.490 --> 57:10.370]  What have I missed?
[57:10.930 --> 57:15.450]  And there's links to PDFs that are made by Handfei, which are, well, kind of awesome.
[57:16.130 --> 57:16.570]  Yeah.
[57:16.790 --> 57:25.370]  And if you ever happen to come to Germany and wonder whether any lock sport group meets, go to lockpicking.org, which redirects to the SF Dev, which you can't remember by name.
[57:25.990 --> 57:31.190]  So, at lockpicking.org, you'll find the German chapters and where to go to and have fun with lockpicking.
[57:31.190 --> 57:34.150]  And they're basically everywhere in Germany.
[57:34.430 --> 57:35.410]  So, that makes sense.
[57:35.590 --> 57:35.670]  Yeah.
[57:35.670 --> 57:37.010]  I mean, we're doing it for 20 years.
[57:37.310 --> 57:37.610]  Sorry?
[57:37.950 --> 57:39.390]  I mean, we're doing it for 20 years.
[57:40.650 --> 57:41.050]  Yep.
[57:41.270 --> 57:41.610]  Quite good.
[57:41.810 --> 57:42.070]  Thank you.
[57:42.650 --> 57:44.010]  So, there's chapters, yeah.
[57:44.330 --> 57:44.530]  Yeah.
[57:44.710 --> 57:46.110]  Chapters all around the U.S. here.
[57:46.390 --> 57:48.790]  The red dots you've got are the TOOOL U.S. chapters.
[57:49.330 --> 57:51.250]  Black ones are Lock Sport International.
[57:51.250 --> 57:54.350]  And we've got a couple of hybrid ones out in California there.
[57:54.710 --> 57:57.590]  So, best place to look this up, I think, is going to be toool.us.
[57:57.790 --> 58:00.630]  They've got links to all the official chapters.
[58:00.630 --> 58:02.790]  And how you can contact them.
[58:03.290 --> 58:04.590]  Just go out to the meetings.
[58:04.970 --> 58:06.170]  Ask how to pick a lock.
[58:06.390 --> 58:06.890]  Get involved.
[58:09.330 --> 58:11.530]  We're not lawyers, but we've paid some lawyers.
[58:11.770 --> 58:14.110]  So, ask us later about the law.
[58:15.650 --> 58:18.370]  Like, everyone and their brother has had a story, right?
[58:18.550 --> 58:20.790]  Where you have picks or you talk about picks.
[58:20.990 --> 58:22.650]  And someone's like, oh, you know that's illegal.
[58:23.230 --> 58:23.570]  Yeah.
[58:23.730 --> 58:25.870]  That person's talking out their f*cking balls.
[58:26.370 --> 58:28.010]  Because they don't know the law.
[58:28.010 --> 58:33.770]  And there's a very low likelihood that they're actually correct when they tell you picks are illegal.
[58:34.230 --> 58:34.970]  You know what's illegal?
[58:35.210 --> 58:35.870]  Breaking and entering.
[58:36.710 --> 58:40.290]  Possession of picks is not actually illegal in a lot of places.
[58:40.530 --> 58:41.210]  Except for one.
[58:41.510 --> 58:42.790]  Except, well, sort of, yeah.
[58:42.910 --> 58:43.890]  Ask us in the village.
[58:44.110 --> 58:44.670]  Buy us drinks.
[58:44.890 --> 58:45.670]  Or drink with us.
[58:45.770 --> 58:46.410]  Drink our drinks.
[58:46.730 --> 58:46.870]  Yes.
[58:48.130 --> 58:48.710]  You can talk...
[58:48.710 --> 58:50.130]  Render can tell you all about Canada.
[58:50.330 --> 58:51.690]  We can tell you a lot about the U.S.
[58:52.110 --> 58:54.630]  Nothing we say constitutes a legal relationship.
[58:54.870 --> 58:56.430]  Nothing we say constitutes a legal advice.
[58:56.730 --> 58:56.890]  Heck no.
[58:57.070 --> 58:57.470]  Et cetera, et cetera.
[58:57.850 --> 58:58.470]  But, yeah.
[58:58.610 --> 59:03.670]  I mean, what you've been told about a lot of things may not be accurate.
[59:03.870 --> 59:06.030]  What you've been told about the law might not be real.
[59:06.170 --> 59:08.110]  And what you've heard about us might not be real.
[59:08.750 --> 59:16.510]  So, I mean, people think lock pickers are really shady, you know, f*cking bad people that you should never associate with.
[59:17.850 --> 59:22.190]  But, but, you know, we're just, we're like, like the hacker community in general.
[59:22.430 --> 59:26.270]  How many assholes want to show up and like take pictures of the blue hair and hope and crap.
[59:26.410 --> 59:28.370]  And like, we're normal people.
[59:28.550 --> 59:30.350]  We're just, we're people who are young and old.
[59:30.550 --> 59:31.250]  We're men and women.
[59:31.410 --> 59:33.390]  We cross all boundary lines.
[59:33.430 --> 59:35.290]  We just like exploring.
[59:35.790 --> 59:37.690]  We just like to tinker with stuff.
[59:37.850 --> 59:39.650]  We like to learn how stuff works.
[59:39.850 --> 59:44.370]  We like to get into it and figure out how to do something different.
[59:44.370 --> 59:48.050]  Something that the manufacturer didn't expect was going to happen.
[59:48.250 --> 59:50.070]  So basically we're hackers, right?
[59:50.270 --> 59:50.410]  Yeah.
[59:50.730 --> 59:52.330]  We're just, we're all the same.
[59:52.710 --> 59:53.750]  You know, we want to treat...
[59:53.750 --> 59:55.190]  Lock pickers are people too.
[59:55.450 --> 59:56.650]  Lock pickers are people too, man.
[59:57.310 --> 59:58.210]  Ish, ish.
[59:58.530 --> 59:58.770]  Yeah.
[59:59.390 --> 01:00:00.590]  It's all just fun.
[01:00:00.630 --> 01:00:02.230]  It's all fun competition.
[01:00:02.730 --> 01:00:05.870]  Everyone wants to see who's faster than you and who can brag.
[01:00:05.870 --> 01:00:08.570]  And sometimes, you know, it's really serious.
[01:00:08.570 --> 01:00:13.730]  And we have big international conferences and ask us about crazy places we've been invited.
[01:00:13.730 --> 01:00:16.690]  And people who've come and we're like, oh my God, I can't believe you're here.
[01:00:17.050 --> 01:00:18.430]  It's all just fun.
[01:00:18.870 --> 01:00:21.210]  Everything about hacking is supposed to be fun.
[01:00:21.530 --> 01:00:24.470]  It's supposed to be who can do the best and who can learn.
[01:00:24.690 --> 01:00:29.930]  And as long as you're here learning and like this, this was so f*cking rewarding for all of us.
[01:00:30.010 --> 01:00:31.230]  But you guys stayed this whole time.
[01:00:31.490 --> 01:00:32.590]  Thank you so much for listening.
[01:00:32.730 --> 01:00:33.510]  That's just awesome.
[01:00:33.630 --> 01:00:33.750]  Thanks.
[01:00:33.970 --> 01:00:35.010]  Drop the hands for everybody.
[01:00:41.350 --> 01:00:44.070]  So we're going to stop talking and we're going to start doing.
[01:00:44.070 --> 01:00:47.370]  So come on down to the lockpick village and pick some locks with us.
[01:00:47.530 --> 01:00:47.670]  Yeah.
[01:00:47.870 --> 01:00:48.410]  Come downstairs.
[01:00:48.870 --> 01:00:49.750]  All Q and A downstairs.
[01:00:50.170 --> 01:00:50.690]  Thank you guys.
[01:00:52.550 --> 01:00:53.090]  Thank you.
[01:00:54.670 --> 01:00:55.670]  That was really cool.
[01:00:59.190 --> 01:01:00.330]  I never even...
[01:01:00.330 --> 01:01:01.150]  Where was it?
[01:01:01.350 --> 01:01:02.170]  No one tried.
[01:01:02.850 --> 01:01:03.750]  I can't hear you.
[01:01:04.090 --> 01:01:05.210]  I can get it open.
[01:01:08.550 --> 01:01:09.230]  Thank you guys.
[01:01:09.650 --> 01:01:10.270]  That's not a problem.
[01:01:10.390 --> 01:01:11.610]  But I got to get off the stage first.
[01:01:12.170 --> 01:01:14.510]  So I can either put it in my pocket or you can bring it to me.
[01:01:14.510 --> 01:01:15.350]  Where's the presenter?
[01:01:15.970 --> 01:01:16.690]  I don't know.
[01:01:16.690 --> 01:01:17.530]  Lockpicking village.
[01:01:17.770 --> 01:01:18.750]  I'm over here for a second.
[01:01:19.330 --> 01:01:19.470]  Okay.
[01:01:19.810 --> 01:01:20.250]  And the back.
[01:01:20.630 --> 01:01:21.310]  Watch back and back.
[01:01:21.670 --> 01:01:22.210]  Wait, what's back?
[01:01:22.810 --> 01:01:23.290]  Time.
[01:01:27.800 --> 01:01:29.160]  Nah, we're just going to go downstairs.
[01:01:29.340 --> 01:01:30.220]  That's working here.
[01:01:30.480 --> 01:01:30.680]  I've prepared.
[01:01:32.780 --> 01:01:33.260]  No.
[01:01:34.200 --> 01:01:35.300]  Three out of five minutes.
[01:01:35.420 --> 01:01:42.420]  The lockpick village officially we're going to hang out and like talk to you for, I don't know, an hour.
[01:01:42.940 --> 01:01:44.920]  The village never really closes.
[01:01:44.920 --> 01:01:46.280]  The lockpicks stay out.
[01:01:46.380 --> 01:01:47.720]  The public locks stay out.
[01:01:47.900 --> 01:01:49.900]  They stay out all night.
[01:01:50.100 --> 01:01:50.900]  And we're here all weekend.
[01:01:51.300 --> 01:01:51.720]  It is.
[01:01:51.940 --> 01:01:51.980]  Yeah.
[01:01:52.540 --> 01:01:55.740]  Please don't f*cking take them up to your room because then other people can't learn.
[01:02:00.210 --> 01:02:05.270]  So you can go for the fully black one and replace one of the screws with a long screw in.
[01:02:05.630 --> 01:02:06.350]  Same difference.
[01:02:06.710 --> 01:02:06.910]  No?
[01:02:07.250 --> 01:02:07.530]  Yes.
[01:02:08.330 --> 01:02:08.910]  Thank you.