[00:00.000 --> 00:05.460]  And Ted could really use some volunteers for camera operators, including right now.
[00:08.800 --> 00:10.360]  You found someone for right now.
[00:14.560 --> 00:17.280]  Having conversations across the room can sometimes be effective.
[00:17.920 --> 00:21.400]  So, yeah, so Ted does need volunteers for the rest of the weekend.
[00:21.540 --> 00:22.100]  Just find him.
[00:22.240 --> 00:23.140]  He's pretty easy to spot.
[00:23.620 --> 00:28.060]  Or speak to anybody that's standing behind a camera because they'll know where Ted is as well.
[00:28.360 --> 00:33.960]  Or show up and buy DVDs and talk to the person there as well.
[00:33.960 --> 00:35.520]  So, yeah, thanks, Ted, for doing that.
[00:35.660 --> 00:36.080]  And volunteers.
[00:36.260 --> 00:42.460]  This can be potentially your way to acclaimed fame and fortune as a camera operator at the HOPE conference.
[00:42.580 --> 00:43.280]  You never know.
[00:44.220 --> 00:45.640]  Okay, so thanks very much.
[00:45.740 --> 00:46.620]  Media Group Bitnik.
[00:47.720 --> 00:48.360]  Thank you.
[00:49.080 --> 00:49.560]  Hi.
[00:49.860 --> 00:50.380]  Hello.
[00:51.660 --> 00:53.160]  We're Mediengruppe Bitnik.
[00:53.380 --> 00:55.040]  We're from Zurich, Switzerland.
[00:55.300 --> 00:56.740]  And it's a great pleasure to be here.
[00:57.360 --> 00:58.520]  My name is Carmen.
[00:58.960 --> 00:59.960]  This is Doma.
[01:00.180 --> 01:01.640]  We're an artist group.
[01:01.640 --> 01:05.320]  And we have a background in net art.
[01:05.580 --> 01:13.820]  So we like misusing or using the net, working with the net as artistic material.
[01:13.820 --> 01:24.640]  And we feel that after the net has also, or it's become clear that the net is also something used for mass surveillance.
[01:26.120 --> 01:31.200]  We've been asking ourselves, how do we practice art under mass surveillance?
[01:31.200 --> 01:39.320]  And we would like to introduce you to three of our works, which we think sort of fit that topic.
[01:40.980 --> 01:44.040]  The first work is called Opera Calling.
[01:44.200 --> 01:45.420]  It's an older work.
[01:45.500 --> 01:47.600]  It's from 2007.
[01:48.640 --> 01:59.180]  It's a work we produced with Gabriel Voltaire in Zurich, which is an art space where Dada was founded in 1916.
[02:00.220 --> 02:11.140]  And this work started with a curiosity about opera as an art form, I guess, because opera is so different to the Internet.
[02:11.140 --> 02:20.820]  So you have like, the opera is a very closed cultural system, very expensive to get in, you need to be dressed in a certain way.
[02:21.000 --> 02:27.240]  So it's, in a sense, it's the opposite of the Internet, which is open, collaborative.
[02:27.240 --> 02:35.920]  And we got really interested in our local opera house because it's also very heavily publicly funded.
[02:36.220 --> 02:42.720]  So in Europe, culture is usually publicly funded, but this house is, has like 85%.
[02:42.720 --> 02:51.660]  Yeah, about 85% of the public money which flows into culture from the county of Zurich goes directly into this house.
[02:51.660 --> 02:59.420]  So the rest, the 15% are shared by any other institutions, museum, theater, whatever exists.
[02:59.780 --> 03:03.140]  So we have like this kind of misconception there.
[03:03.400 --> 03:12.520]  So we asked ourselves, is there a way of, of opening this closed system since, I mean, like still, the entrance is still expensive.
[03:12.840 --> 03:15.020]  It's kind of hard to get tickets.
[03:17.660 --> 03:28.320]  And yeah, we basically decided to bring the opera to people at home because it's also the people at home publicly funding the opera.
[03:29.120 --> 03:40.440]  And the idea was to copy something we found when doing something we call media archeology.
[03:40.440 --> 03:49.240]  So we like to look at media uses immediately after technology is invented.
[03:50.140 --> 04:00.420]  And with the telephone, after it was invented, it was immediately commercially or people immediately wanted to use it commercially.
[04:00.420 --> 04:13.460]  And we found it really interesting that because they couldn't just say, well, you know, go and buy a telephone and then you wait around for somebody else in your city to also go and buy a telephone.
[04:13.800 --> 04:17.340]  And then you can call that person that wouldn't have worked commercially.
[04:17.340 --> 04:26.640]  They decided to link the telephone systems they built to any cultural house they had in, in their town or city.
[04:27.520 --> 04:31.360]  Here in this example, it's the opera.
[04:31.700 --> 04:37.100]  So you have the opera singer on the right with microphones below her on the stage.
[04:37.100 --> 04:44.920]  The audio feed is transmitted into the, the center sort of represents the telephone, how do you say, relay.
[04:45.300 --> 04:51.900]  And on the left, you have the family at home listening to this opera telephone.
[04:52.520 --> 04:59.600]  And you also see the telephone is not, it doesn't have a receiver, but a sort of a loudspeaker.
[04:59.760 --> 05:03.280]  So this is pre, used for the telephone pre radio.
[05:03.280 --> 05:03.800]  Yeah.
[05:04.040 --> 05:08.680]  So the killer application of calling each other, like came, came later.
[05:09.460 --> 05:16.700]  So, um, we, yeah, well, we, we thought of, I mean, like what happens if we just like rebuild this 100 years later?
[05:17.420 --> 05:19.640]  And, uh, but we wouldn't ask the opera.
[05:19.780 --> 05:28.660]  So the idea was to place box here on stage, retransmit it to our, um, exhibition space, the Cabaret Voltaire.
[05:28.660 --> 05:40.240]  And from there, uh, having something like, uh, uh, uh, having a computer linked to voice over IP, uh, which could call landlice and just like randomly call people in Zurich.
[05:41.360 --> 05:44.380]  And, uh, hook them up with a live feed, to the live feed.
[05:45.140 --> 05:51.980]  Um, so people at home could listen to the opera live for as long as they wanted to, if they got the call.
[05:51.980 --> 05:57.980]  And, uh, when they put down the court of the, the phone, we would just call the next random person.
[06:00.840 --> 06:02.900]  So this is how the opera looks like.
[06:03.180 --> 06:03.320]  Um.
[06:04.060 --> 06:04.900]  The inside, yeah.
[06:05.020 --> 06:09.240]  They weren't very pleased about or with our idea.
[06:09.380 --> 06:13.620]  So we started this at the, we had like an exhibition opening on Friday, Monday morning.
[06:13.620 --> 06:19.280]  They got calls by journalists asking them, I mean, like the opera house, asking them, Hey, do you know your bugs?
[06:19.460 --> 06:21.060]  You know, there is a leak inside.
[06:21.380 --> 06:24.780]  You are losing the control of the, of your live performance.
[06:25.480 --> 06:27.980]  And then they were starting to chase the bugs.
[06:28.420 --> 06:34.680]  And, uh, and this is like, uh, um, also like first day, I think of the performance, second day, Monday.
[06:35.140 --> 06:37.860]  Um, they showed this pic on television.
[06:38.220 --> 06:39.320]  Uh, this is like main news.
[06:39.320 --> 06:41.300]  This is one of the bugs they found.
[06:41.620 --> 06:45.460]  And, uh, they were kind of surprised since, uh, we used mobile phones.
[06:45.900 --> 06:50.420]  We could call basically, and they would auto pick up, give us the, the link.
[06:50.840 --> 06:55.900]  And they thought, I mean, like, it's more, you know, it's more like James Bond devices, you know, small things.
[06:56.120 --> 06:57.740]  But, uh, yeah, it wasn't.
[06:58.380 --> 06:58.660]  Yeah.
[06:59.140 --> 07:02.820]  So they, um, threatened us with a lawsuit.
[07:03.240 --> 07:07.760]  Um, as you can imagine, actually, it was about three different ones.
[07:07.760 --> 07:10.540]  Uh, which is, uh, maybe another story.
[07:11.120 --> 07:11.840]  And, um...
[07:11.840 --> 07:12.540]  Maybe you should tell it.
[07:12.960 --> 07:13.260]  Yeah?
[07:13.660 --> 07:13.800]  Okay.
[07:14.040 --> 07:19.420]  So they, they wanted to, um, well, they wanted to sue us for placing the bugs.
[07:19.720 --> 07:22.380]  But then they also wanted to sue us, uh, for...
[07:22.380 --> 07:23.720]  Copyright infringement.
[07:23.820 --> 07:24.020]  Yeah.
[07:24.240 --> 07:25.100]  Copyright infringement.
[07:25.510 --> 07:26.600]  Distribution rights.
[07:27.180 --> 07:33.340]  And the singers at the opera wanted to separately sue us for the bad acoustics.
[07:33.700 --> 07:34.120]  So...
[07:34.120 --> 07:34.660]  For libel?
[07:35.720 --> 07:36.900]  It was a singer's union.
[07:37.780 --> 07:39.620]  Yeah, it was a bit confusing.
[07:40.100 --> 07:44.660]  So, I mean, like, they were kind of pissed that the audio quality is so bad in the transmission.
[07:44.960 --> 07:46.560]  But, I mean, like, you know, phones are not...
[07:46.560 --> 07:47.000]  It's a phone.
[07:47.260 --> 07:47.320]  Yeah.
[07:48.480 --> 07:51.180]  ...for high quality music broadcasting.
[07:51.720 --> 07:54.800]  So, yeah, it was also picked up by the media quite heavily.
[07:54.800 --> 08:01.920]  And, um, it's, the, the work started the discussion on who owns publicly funded, uh, culture.
[08:02.220 --> 08:03.980]  Who has access to it.
[08:04.400 --> 08:04.500]  Who has access to culture.
[08:05.160 --> 08:09.160]  And, um, which made the opera finally drop the, the lawsuits.
[08:09.660 --> 08:21.520]  And, um, it let us, uh, transmit for three months about 100 hours of opera to around 5,000 households in Zurich.
[08:21.520 --> 08:25.960]  And I think we'll show you, uh, an excerpt.
[08:26.180 --> 08:27.640]  Of a, of a call.
[08:27.860 --> 08:28.140]  Of one of the calls.
[08:28.420 --> 08:29.700]  So you can get the idea.
[08:29.980 --> 08:35.000]  So it's basically a family, uh, it's Sunday afternoon.
[08:35.000 --> 08:39.800]  A family receives a call from us, basically, from our, uh, auto generator.
[08:39.800 --> 08:40.960]  Uh, from our computer.
[08:42.080 --> 08:43.920]  Uh, giving them the link.
[08:45.340 --> 08:47.280]  Uh, uh, yes.
[08:47.680 --> 08:50.660]  So it's all black and you only have voice and subtitles.
[09:10.160 --> 09:11.820]  Yeah, hello, grütti.
[09:12.120 --> 09:15.960]  Hier ist das autonome Operntelefon der Stadt Zurich.
[09:16.240 --> 09:21.120]  Zu Ihrer Freude und Unterhaltung haben wir in der Zürcher Oper eine Wand verplatziert.
[09:21.780 --> 09:26.080]  In wenigen Sekunden werden Sie live ins Opernhaus verbunden.
[09:26.360 --> 09:34.040]  Sie können bequem von Ihrem Wohnzimmer aus der heutigen Vorstellung von der Rosenkavalier von Richard Strauss beiwohnen.
[09:34.040 --> 09:35.460]  Sie ist das?
[09:36.080 --> 09:36.200]  Ja.
[09:36.340 --> 09:38.800]  Du könntest Opernhaus sein, was er etwas ausbügt.
[09:46.550 --> 09:48.070]  Hallo, was soll das?
[09:50.710 --> 09:51.570]  Hallo, was soll das?
[09:53.410 --> 09:54.910]  Das ist großartig.
[09:59.510 --> 10:01.190]  Du, ich häng doch auf, was?
[10:02.010 --> 10:04.050]  Ich häng doch auf, was soll das Ganze?
[10:04.050 --> 10:06.050]  Ich will ja keine Oper haben.
[10:06.930 --> 10:07.030]  Wie?
[10:11.370 --> 10:12.450]  Nee, noch nicht.
[10:13.730 --> 10:16.170]  Ja, hier, da singt einer, wunderschön.
[10:18.290 --> 10:18.890]  Ja.
[10:32.790 --> 10:35.230]  Ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja.
[10:35.230 --> 10:36.790]  Also hier, dann komm mal.
[10:39.330 --> 10:44.010]  Also die Akustik ist eine absolute Katastrophe.
[10:44.010 --> 10:49.170]  Aber, bitte, was bringt es hier?
[10:50.950 --> 10:52.570]  Da hast du das.
[11:00.210 --> 11:04.330]  Michael, ich muss euch die Aktion erklären.
[11:04.330 --> 11:09.350]  Die rufen Leute an, wählen die Aktion für so der Zufallsgenerator.
[11:10.450 --> 11:13.190]  Das Opernhaus, das wird so stark, so pensioniert.
[11:13.350 --> 11:16.590]  Und nur die reichen Leute, nur die reichen Leute haben was davon.
[11:16.830 --> 11:18.550]  Und jetzt haben sie Wampen angebracht.
[11:18.990 --> 11:24.210]  Und jetzt kann man die Oper jetzt live, das stült sich jetzt ab, kann man die Oper miterleben.
[11:30.570 --> 11:32.050]  Ja, Mann!
[11:36.420 --> 11:38.480]  Also nicht alle warten...
[11:38.480 --> 11:40.580]  Das sind alle warten, denn nie alle warten, denn alle warten.
[11:40.580 --> 11:42.480]  Nein, bitte, nur so viel.
[11:45.180 --> 11:48.720]  Der ist ein kinder, der ist ein ganzes...
[11:48.720 --> 11:55.420]  Von den Opernhaus, das sind die Grüne, die wollen das alle warten, von dem Opernhaus.
[11:55.420 --> 11:59.100]  Yeah, you can watch the whole film.
[11:59.440 --> 12:01.160]  It goes on for some minutes.
[12:06.190 --> 12:08.270]  Yeah, it's online.
[12:11.870 --> 12:18.710]  The second work we would briefly like to introduce you to is called Surveillance Chess.
[12:19.030 --> 12:24.250]  It's a work from 2012 in London.
[12:24.250 --> 12:29.130]  And it talks about hierarchies in surveillance systems.
[12:29.330 --> 12:38.970]  And we really got interested in surveillance systems around 2008 when Zurich was host city of the Euro...
[12:38.970 --> 12:41.710]  European football, soccer championships.
[12:42.330 --> 12:59.590]  Which sort of meant that we got a whole bunch of new laws around how to effectively ask people to leave public space, how to easily install cameras, how letting...
[12:59.590 --> 13:07.770]  Basically letting surveillance come to a much larger amount within our city.
[13:08.610 --> 13:15.110]  And we started thinking about surveillance cameras because they are just...
[13:15.410 --> 13:18.630]  These cameras installed in cities, I think we have to live with them.
[13:18.630 --> 13:24.030]  But for us, artistically, the question is, what types of images do they produce?
[13:24.270 --> 13:25.890]  And they produce them 24-7.
[13:26.510 --> 13:32.790]  And for us, the question became, can we tap into these images?
[13:32.950 --> 13:36.150]  Is there a way of using these images?
[13:36.430 --> 13:41.950]  And we quickly found out, as you probably all know, that there are basically two systems.
[13:41.950 --> 13:44.530]  So there's wired cameras and Wi-Fi cameras.
[13:44.750 --> 13:52.950]  And the Wi-Fi cameras, at least in Europe, many times are not encrypted, just open.
[13:53.670 --> 14:03.210]  So we thought, well, if this system is so open, you must be able to walk around with the receiving side, if you make it mobile.
[14:03.890 --> 14:15.450]  And every time you come near a surveillance camera, you should be receiving the images from that camera, just as the person watching the camera also is receiving the images.
[14:15.470 --> 14:21.250]  The first tests were just like on 2.4 GHz, where there is like the stupid industry standard.
[14:21.670 --> 14:28.610]  There are like four channels, which most of the cheap surveillance systems use.
[14:28.770 --> 14:35.130]  So the idea was just like to hook up a battery, constantly change channels and walk around the city and just like see what happens.
[14:35.850 --> 14:40.470]  And we found an enormous amount of cameras.
[14:40.990 --> 14:46.430]  We've been doing these walks now, conducting these walks since 2008.
[14:46.910 --> 14:48.570]  And we've been to many cities.
[14:48.710 --> 14:50.090]  We asked people to participate.
[14:50.090 --> 14:57.950]  So we built various of these devices and we just give them out to people and they can walk around their city searching for these cameras.
[14:58.650 --> 15:11.030]  So the interesting thing is that, I mean like even though most of the time you walk around in your own neighborhood with those devices and you think you know it, but there is still like a media layer which is not visible.
[15:11.530 --> 15:20.150]  And with those things, things like are really strong when you're standing outside and having an image of something which is happening inside.
[15:20.570 --> 15:24.190]  So it like totally breaks those public private concepts.
[15:26.070 --> 15:29.310]  And here for example, this is an image from Vienna.
[15:29.730 --> 15:32.270]  Just the door of lawyers.
[15:32.830 --> 15:34.150]  I don't know what you call it.
[15:34.330 --> 15:34.390]  Yeah.
[15:34.990 --> 15:39.250]  This is bathroom behind the shop in Rotterdam.
[15:39.530 --> 15:41.670]  So it's these types of images you get.
[15:41.670 --> 15:54.490]  We just conducted a walk in San Francisco a week ago and we found two cameras we'd like to show you because we really like them.
[15:54.710 --> 16:00.410]  The first one is the Church of Scientology on...
[16:00.410 --> 16:02.030]  Just like in downtown?
[16:02.030 --> 16:03.710]  Montgomery Street.
[16:05.290 --> 16:10.690]  Filming the sidewalk in front of the door.
[16:11.810 --> 16:12.450]  Yeah.
[16:12.910 --> 16:14.270]  Which we thought was pretty nice.
[16:14.270 --> 16:16.510]  These are like participants in our walk.
[16:17.050 --> 16:18.850]  So they're just finding the camera now.
[16:19.430 --> 16:19.530]  Yeah.
[16:23.250 --> 16:26.390]  And the next one was also kind of interesting.
[16:30.450 --> 16:32.990]  So we found this in Chinatown.
[16:33.530 --> 16:33.650]  Yeah.
[16:34.850 --> 16:40.170]  Which seemed to be like an underground...
[16:40.170 --> 16:41.410]  Mahjong parlor.
[16:41.850 --> 16:41.890]  Yeah.
[16:41.930 --> 16:43.850]  But we're not really sure.
[16:44.450 --> 16:52.150]  So I'm like the participants of the workshop tried to enter but I'm like they would immediately shut the door and kick them out.
[16:52.270 --> 16:55.250]  So it was kind of strange to receive this image.
[16:58.150 --> 16:58.500]  Yeah.
[16:59.050 --> 16:59.510]  Yeah.
[17:01.430 --> 17:02.130]  Yeah.
[17:02.130 --> 17:02.590]  So...
[17:02.590 --> 17:02.670]  Yeah.
[17:02.970 --> 17:04.310]  Anyway, this is...
[17:04.310 --> 17:16.950]  These are the kinds of images we find and we then asked ourselves how can we intervene into these spaces because this is an analog system, right?
[17:17.150 --> 17:26.890]  So there must be a way for us to override these camera signals and just send our own image to the people watching the cameras.
[17:27.090 --> 17:28.930]  So do the other...
[17:28.930 --> 17:30.710]  You know, do it the other way around.
[17:30.890 --> 17:44.230]  And we built this suitcase and equipped with a pretty strong transmitter, video transmitter, and did a three-day performance in London.
[17:44.570 --> 17:51.970]  The idea was kind of to also break the hierarchy between the surveiller and the one being surveilled.
[17:52.090 --> 18:00.330]  So the question was like what happens if we introduce a game into this communication system which is, you know, normally not a real communication system.
[18:00.490 --> 18:03.050]  What happens if we introduce a game?
[18:03.250 --> 18:04.970]  Would it be something like...
[18:04.970 --> 18:07.110]  Would it be more equal?
[18:12.810 --> 18:15.250]  And I'll just play the film.
[18:15.970 --> 18:19.090]  So this is something we did two years ago just like...
[18:21.050 --> 18:22.410]  Before Olympics.
[18:22.410 --> 18:22.490]  Before Olympics.
[18:24.610 --> 18:25.590]  In London.
[18:33.230 --> 18:38.160]  And the film is from the perspective of the person watching.
[18:38.440 --> 18:41.380]  So from the perspective of the camera at the feet.
[19:18.710 --> 19:21.030]  I've hijacked your surveillance camera.
[19:26.040 --> 19:28.100]  I'm the one with the yellow suitcase.
[19:31.290 --> 19:32.950]  How about a game of chess?
[19:41.720 --> 19:42.740]  You are white.
[19:45.680 --> 19:46.820]  I am black.
[19:47.320 --> 19:47.920]  Black.
[19:48.180 --> 19:51.980]  Call me or text me to make your move.
[19:52.960 --> 19:54.540]  This is my phone number.
[19:57.500 --> 19:58.260]  07582460851.
[20:56.530 --> 20:59.090]  This is Chinese Chamber of Commerce.
[21:00.250 --> 21:01.670]  I'm Soho London.
[21:03.970 --> 21:05.830]  Play chess with me.
[21:09.740 --> 21:10.700]  Come on.
[21:14.180 --> 21:15.180]  You're white.
[21:15.360 --> 21:15.860]  I'm black.
[21:15.860 --> 21:16.470]  You start.
[21:19.470 --> 21:24.290]  Text me on 07582460851.
[21:49.700 --> 21:54.860]  So, as you can imagine, nobody wanted to play chess with us.
[21:55.940 --> 22:01.920]  But they did come and discuss surveillance with us sometimes.
[22:02.520 --> 22:06.200]  And they did come and ask us to leave also.
[22:08.540 --> 22:15.760]  For us, I think it's sometimes really important also to misunderstand these systems.
[22:16.280 --> 22:18.620]  You know, they're so obviously for something else.
[22:18.820 --> 22:23.160]  But, you know, to really ask ourselves what else can we do with them?
[22:23.240 --> 22:27.780]  How can we also have fun with something we have to live with in our cities?
[22:28.160 --> 22:29.080]  And yeah.
[22:30.100 --> 22:31.680]  Maybe take it a bit further.
[22:34.120 --> 22:40.360]  The last work we would quickly like to talk about is called Delivery for Mr. Assange.
[22:40.600 --> 22:43.160]  It's our most recent work.
[22:43.360 --> 22:46.080]  We produced it in 2013.
[22:46.080 --> 22:50.140]  So, one and a half years ago in January 2013.
[22:51.640 --> 22:57.840]  And our starting point here was an interest in a place in London.
[22:58.020 --> 22:59.080]  We work a lot in London.
[22:59.380 --> 23:04.420]  And this place in London really started to interest us.
[23:04.740 --> 23:06.980]  It's the Ecuadorian embassy.
[23:07.200 --> 23:11.840]  And as you probably know, Julian Assange has been living there for two years now.
[23:12.240 --> 23:19.220]  And the embassy was or is still surrounded by British police forces.
[23:19.220 --> 23:31.540]  So, it's actually a war zone in the midst of London, like European capital in the West End behind Harrods.
[23:31.660 --> 23:34.540]  Harrods is this crazy shopping centre.
[23:34.800 --> 23:38.740]  So, you walk through all these shoppers and tourists.
[23:39.140 --> 23:46.920]  And then you stand in front of this embassy, which is surrounded by police, heavily guarded with vans all around.
[23:46.920 --> 24:00.940]  And we really felt that for us, it became this sort of physical manifestation of a crisis, which has been ongoing, but really hard to somehow to find images for, at least for us.
[24:00.940 --> 24:23.360]  And this conflict between Internet aficionados or whatever you want to call people who want information to be free and the powers that be that sort of try to make the Internet into something which is more for mass surveillance than for free speech, I guess.
[24:23.360 --> 24:26.620]  And we found this place really interesting.
[24:26.880 --> 24:43.680]  And it started to interest us also because we sort of feel there's this physical world, which we've fought to have access to, or we fought to have free speech in and public spaces.
[24:43.680 --> 24:53.920]  And we sort of think it's, at the moment for us, it's become also a place of refuge in a sense.
[24:56.360 --> 25:05.700]  So, we asked ourselves, how can we gain physical access to this embassy and not have to go there in person?
[25:05.700 --> 25:11.100]  And we quickly found the system, which is a really nice system in place.
[25:11.900 --> 25:22.620]  It's the postal system, which still has something called the postal secrecy to stop people looking at your mail, physically looking at your mail.
[25:22.620 --> 25:36.800]  Something we don't have in the digital world, at least in Europe or in Swiss law, where we live, there is nothing which protects our mails not to be read by anybody who, you know, who has access to it.
[25:37.220 --> 25:46.460]  And we thought, well, this is an embassy, they must be receiving mail, so we'll just send them some mail and see whether we can sort of get through this police barrier.
[25:46.460 --> 25:59.460]  And we built a parcel and we needed to know what would happen to this parcel, so we made a small hole into the side of the parcel and placed the camera there.
[25:59.820 --> 26:10.780]  And the camera looked out of this parcel and took a picture of its surrounding every 15 seconds and uploaded that image to the Internet.
[26:10.780 --> 26:19.880]  So we had this live, well, we and everybody else who wanted to watch it had this live access to the goings-on of this parcel.
[26:20.100 --> 26:27.420]  So we wanted to see where the parcel would end up, whether it would reach its destination, or which route would it take?
[26:27.660 --> 26:29.940]  Would it be removed from the postal system?
[26:30.280 --> 26:33.180]  How would the police react to it?
[26:33.400 --> 26:35.600]  Or would it be destroyed?
[26:35.600 --> 26:37.120]  I'm the worst embassy ever.
[26:37.260 --> 26:37.900]  No, I'm stressed.
[26:38.220 --> 26:38.220]  Thanks.
[26:38.740 --> 26:41.320]  Or, I mean, like, would it reach Julian Assange?
[26:41.480 --> 26:43.240]  I mean, like, it might be possible.
[26:44.700 --> 26:50.100]  We posted it in East London, addressed it to, yeah, you can probably read that.
[26:50.480 --> 26:55.380]  Julian Assange at the Ecuadorian Embassy in London, West London.
[26:55.620 --> 27:01.680]  We published this picture, which just showed the insights of the parcel online.
[27:01.680 --> 27:11.580]  So it's basically a little bit of electronics and some batteries, which would give us, I don't know, maybe 40 hours of capacity.
[27:12.040 --> 27:14.580]  You know, just like 40 hours of a live stream.
[27:16.200 --> 27:20.900]  So, and this was the website where the pictures would be uploaded.
[27:20.960 --> 27:22.260]  So we had this box here.
[27:23.980 --> 27:26.360]  It's black now, with this live logo here.
[27:26.360 --> 27:33.400]  And we tried to tweet about it and just like to contextualize where we are, what's happening.
[27:34.260 --> 27:36.720]  Just like, you know, as a live performance.
[27:37.780 --> 27:39.200]  Did we already say?
[27:39.380 --> 27:44.860]  So because it was a cell phone, we also had, how do you say?
[27:45.520 --> 27:46.120]  GPS?
[27:46.460 --> 27:48.080]  No, well, place readings.
[27:49.300 --> 27:49.680]  Yeah.
[27:49.680 --> 27:55.900]  So we usually knew where the parcel was physically, I mean, where in the city.
[27:56.160 --> 28:02.140]  So we tried to retell the story of what was happening to this piece of post.
[28:02.340 --> 28:03.640]  So this was the first taken.
[28:03.960 --> 28:09.280]  It's kind of an artist self-portrait with me here in the back.
[28:10.920 --> 28:13.160]  And I mean, like the first question is, would they take it?
[28:13.180 --> 28:16.040]  Would they receive at the counter?
[28:16.520 --> 28:17.400]  How would they take it?
[28:17.480 --> 28:18.760]  How would they deal with this?
[28:19.780 --> 28:25.780]  I mean, so I was kind of nervous about it and standing at the counter.
[28:26.760 --> 28:30.540]  And, but it got accepted, which was like, hey, wow.
[28:31.820 --> 28:35.680]  And it's 12 o'clock in the afternoon, 12 o'clock midday.
[28:36.600 --> 28:40.600]  And it just like disappeared in the back.
[28:41.880 --> 28:44.380]  And it stayed there for a while.
[28:45.120 --> 28:46.120]  For an hour.
[28:46.740 --> 28:47.960]  For a few hours.
[28:48.060 --> 28:48.700]  For two hours.
[28:50.700 --> 28:52.060]  Three hours.
[28:52.740 --> 28:53.420]  Some light.
[28:53.960 --> 28:58.740]  So you can imagine how excited we got every time something like this happens.
[28:58.760 --> 28:59.000]  Happens.
[28:59.160 --> 28:59.880]  I mean like...
[29:03.780 --> 29:10.900]  So at 3.30 we lost, like we lost contact.
[29:11.440 --> 29:14.860]  So we weren't sure about, I mean like, you know, it's self-built.
[29:15.360 --> 29:16.440]  Things can break.
[29:18.000 --> 29:19.800]  Did somebody tape the camera?
[29:20.580 --> 29:21.920]  Blackout since half an hour.
[29:22.160 --> 29:24.720]  I think it went for almost two hours.
[29:24.740 --> 29:27.420]  We had no connection to the thing.
[29:28.980 --> 29:34.020]  Still black, but packet now is... I mean like, okay, we received some GPS afterwards.
[29:34.820 --> 29:38.220]  And then at 6 o'clock, a pic again.
[29:38.440 --> 29:40.660]  It was sure, okay, our camera is not broken.
[29:40.680 --> 29:43.100]  We're just like maybe in a van or something.
[29:43.380 --> 29:46.240]  And we move in the direction of...
[29:47.780 --> 29:48.340]  Central.
[29:48.340 --> 29:49.380]  Of central London.
[29:55.210 --> 30:01.870]  And then at 8.30 we got this first image of the insides of the postal system.
[30:03.510 --> 30:04.670]  Which I really...
[30:04.670 --> 30:06.630]  Like we call it unmanned photography.
[30:06.970 --> 30:13.830]  So it's photography not made by humans, more like from machines or things which are just like flowing in a system.
[30:13.830 --> 30:20.290]  So it was kind of interesting to see like this inner views of, you know, the postal system.
[30:21.990 --> 30:24.310]  Things that you don't have access to normally.
[30:24.710 --> 30:27.170]  I mean, this was a really open experiment.
[30:27.710 --> 30:39.050]  And we told a few people about this, but we really weren't at all sure whether anybody else in the world would think this was interesting.
[30:39.050 --> 30:47.490]  And around this time, our servers crashed for the first time because of too many requests.
[30:47.830 --> 30:51.510]  Which sort of took us by surprise, to be honest.
[30:52.070 --> 30:54.050]  But the community was really good.
[30:54.190 --> 30:59.810]  They started setting up mirrors and helping us with all the traffic load.
[31:00.570 --> 31:10.710]  And some people took down all the images, you know, grabbed sort of wrote scripts to grab all the images because they were really afraid we would permanently go offline.
[31:11.250 --> 31:19.110]  And it was really fascinating to watch this very, very, very slow journey.
[31:19.690 --> 31:25.950]  Very slow progress through this postal system towards the Ecuadorian embassy.
[31:26.270 --> 31:29.730]  So here we're in a green bag this time.
[31:31.050 --> 31:36.550]  Somebody later wrote us an email explaining that the green bag means priority.
[31:36.550 --> 31:40.690]  So we're being handled as priority now.
[31:41.510 --> 31:45.710]  And then geolocation started changing again.
[31:45.990 --> 31:51.130]  And we were moving really fast out of the city.
[31:51.350 --> 31:52.030]  It's kind of strange.
[31:52.170 --> 31:53.310]  I mean, like we were in East London.
[31:54.030 --> 31:55.550]  Julian Assange is sitting here.
[31:55.750 --> 31:59.570]  And it just like passed and went out of town to the airport.
[32:02.430 --> 32:20.770]  And we resurfaced at a logistics centre at Heathrow Airport, which is about, I think, 20 kilometres outside of London, being handled.
[32:20.770 --> 32:21.530]  Again.
[32:21.770 --> 32:22.130]  Again.
[32:23.450 --> 32:23.470]  Again.
[32:23.470 --> 32:34.670]  And, yeah, people were like commenting, writing, trying to help us also find out what was going on within this postal system.
[32:35.010 --> 32:35.170]  Where are we?
[32:35.210 --> 32:35.910]  Where are we?
[32:36.190 --> 32:37.330]  What could this be?
[32:37.610 --> 32:42.550]  This was a delivery centre in now in central London again.
[32:42.550 --> 32:45.790]  So at six o'clock, we are not far away.
[32:45.930 --> 32:48.250]  I mean, like, just like geolocation based.
[32:48.570 --> 32:52.550]  It was like we were like two kilometres or two miles away from the embassy.
[32:52.830 --> 32:56.710]  So at around six, seven, we thought, OK, it will be delivered this morning.
[32:56.910 --> 33:01.250]  It's kind of sure we'll, you know, get to the to the hot, hot zone.
[33:01.250 --> 33:06.890]  And yeah, it was kind of kind of excited about it.
[33:07.530 --> 33:15.690]  So eight, nine o'clock, another post office near near the Ecuadorian embassy.
[33:16.890 --> 33:30.170]  Around this time, the BBC wrote BBC online, the tech department wrote about the work, which was the point where our service went down permanently offline.
[33:30.170 --> 33:31.890]  Or they didn't really.
[33:32.190 --> 33:33.090]  Yeah, we didn't.
[33:33.550 --> 33:34.910]  Yeah, well, yeah.
[33:35.030 --> 33:38.670]  I mean, like we had we had to upload the picture manually to Twitter.
[33:38.750 --> 33:39.670]  Yeah, you could still see Twitter.
[33:39.670 --> 33:43.610]  So on Twitter, you would have like the flow of information of what was happening.
[33:43.930 --> 33:47.870]  And the first people were going, hey, Bitnik, is this going to be delivered soon?
[33:48.010 --> 33:54.490]  Because I've really I've been watching this for 24 hours and I really need to get some work done.
[33:58.200 --> 34:03.700]  Yeah, or there's one one guy said, hey, no one is tweeting and no one is working at our office.
[34:05.100 --> 34:07.540]  This is more exciting than the Mars Rover.
[34:09.140 --> 34:13.620]  A black rectangle with a life written in the corner has never been so interesting.
[34:14.720 --> 34:19.380]  What I've learned from Bitnik Parcel spent a lot of time in complete darkness.
[34:22.860 --> 34:24.320]  So it's 10 o'clock.
[34:24.540 --> 34:26.380]  We're moving like really slow.
[34:26.600 --> 34:27.220]  Stop and go.
[34:27.440 --> 34:27.820]  Stop and go.
[34:27.980 --> 34:34.140]  It was clear we are maybe in a van in a, you know, just like in a delivery van making the last steps.
[34:34.700 --> 34:39.460]  We're just like, you know, 500 meters away, 400 meters away.
[34:39.680 --> 34:41.020]  We're getting really excited.
[34:41.260 --> 34:41.880]  So it's 11.
[34:42.480 --> 34:46.300]  Since three hours, we have the feeling, I'm like, we're just like about to be there.
[34:46.620 --> 34:52.280]  People on Twitter were going, isn't there anyone in London who can go and take a picture of this van from the outside?
[34:53.220 --> 34:54.080]  Still black.
[35:00.870 --> 35:04.390]  So, and yeah, it's one o'clock in the afternoon.
[35:04.730 --> 35:11.170]  So this is like first view on the streets since a long time.
[35:11.790 --> 35:13.070]  And it was kind of clear.
[35:13.190 --> 35:18.970]  I mean, like the Victorian housing houses, they must be just like around the corner, basically.
[35:21.070 --> 35:24.130]  So in here, it was clear we are in a van since...
[35:24.730 --> 35:25.670]  There's other mail.
[35:25.810 --> 35:26.410]  There's other mail.
[35:26.410 --> 35:28.030]  The van was empty.
[35:28.250 --> 35:34.050]  We were really afraid we would get taken back to the, you know, the postman going, I'm not going to deliver this.
[35:34.470 --> 35:35.330]  Take it back.
[35:37.590 --> 35:38.970]  But we stayed inside.
[35:39.230 --> 35:40.410]  And then this and...
[35:41.950 --> 35:43.010]  This is kind of strange.
[35:43.190 --> 35:44.550]  I don't know if you really see...
[35:44.550 --> 35:45.390]  Can you see something?
[35:45.770 --> 35:47.430]  It's like a delivery folder.
[35:47.610 --> 35:48.230]  It's really dark.
[35:48.630 --> 35:48.890]  Yeah.
[35:49.450 --> 35:53.670]  It's really about, you know, the small color changes here.
[35:53.910 --> 35:54.810]  The image is black.
[35:55.950 --> 35:56.950]  Still black.
[35:57.330 --> 35:58.130]  Same location.
[35:58.610 --> 35:59.250]  Nothing happening.
[35:59.530 --> 36:00.410]  Diplomatic crisis.
[36:00.730 --> 36:02.630]  It's two o'clock in the afternoon.
[36:02.910 --> 36:03.830]  Lunch break maybe.
[36:04.510 --> 36:05.410]  And then this.
[36:05.650 --> 36:07.310]  I don't know if you see anything.
[36:07.970 --> 36:11.730]  But there's like some brownish, brownish thing here.
[36:11.930 --> 36:13.070]  It's clear from the image.
[36:13.190 --> 36:15.870]  It's, it must be a, it's an inside flooring.
[36:16.090 --> 36:18.810]  So it's wooden floor, must be inside the building.
[36:20.490 --> 36:27.570]  But we really didn't, but the geolocation said, well, Three Hands Crescent, that's the address of the embassy.
[36:28.630 --> 36:29.570]  Still black.
[36:35.080 --> 36:36.260]  For another hour.
[36:36.660 --> 36:44.460]  And then, just like before three o'clock, this tweet by WikiLeaks Fitnik package has arrived and is now with embassy security.
[36:45.220 --> 36:47.760]  And you're like, okay, wow, we are inside.
[36:48.280 --> 36:49.620]  And what happens next?
[36:49.660 --> 36:50.080]  We don't know.
[36:50.180 --> 36:50.660]  Nobody knows.
[36:51.660 --> 36:52.480]  Right mail has delivered.
[36:52.800 --> 36:53.900]  WikiLeaks confirms.
[36:55.720 --> 36:56.320]  Three.
[36:56.880 --> 36:59.860]  So the parcel camera transmitted over 9,000 images.
[36:59.860 --> 37:01.220]  Most of them are black.
[37:02.100 --> 37:16.180]  I mean, like, you know, the guys on Twitter will write, okay, this is not true, because I've, I'm analyzing all your pics, and there are only like 36% of 11,321 pictures of like...
[37:16.180 --> 37:17.420]  And they're like, okay, wow.
[37:20.320 --> 37:22.960]  There were also the ones going, over 9,000.
[37:23.220 --> 37:23.360]  Yeah.
[37:25.520 --> 37:31.020]  So at round four, this strange pics, I don't know, do you see anything?
[37:31.460 --> 37:31.520]  Yeah.
[37:32.140 --> 37:35.660]  Round six, so we are waiting since, I don't know, the whole day.
[37:36.920 --> 37:51.140]  And then we got this picture from the inside, and the journalist from South America wrote us, and she said like, hey, I know this room, this is like the lobby of the Ecuadorian embassy.
[37:51.140 --> 37:53.660]  It was clear, we are inside, huh?
[37:54.940 --> 37:55.620]  Black again.
[37:56.580 --> 37:57.580]  Some movement.
[37:57.880 --> 37:59.580]  Then those strange colors.
[38:00.680 --> 38:01.260]  Stripes.
[38:01.640 --> 38:02.220]  Stripes.
[38:02.660 --> 38:03.800]  Black again.
[38:04.940 --> 38:05.840]  Can you see this?
[38:07.140 --> 38:08.800]  We were like, oh my God.
[38:12.010 --> 38:13.430]  Okay, is it a dog?
[38:14.010 --> 38:15.530]  No, it might be a cat.
[38:16.830 --> 38:18.190]  A cat or a dog.
[38:18.450 --> 38:19.890]  Has Julian Assange taken over?
[38:20.630 --> 38:21.850]  And then this.
[38:21.990 --> 38:22.790]  Is this thing on?
[38:28.940 --> 38:30.040]  Hello, world.
[38:33.110 --> 38:34.230]  Image of kids.
[38:34.490 --> 38:35.530]  Post-Lot is contagious.
[38:38.170 --> 38:39.130]  A lion.
[38:39.350 --> 38:40.150]  Welcome to Ecuador.
[38:47.870 --> 38:48.790]  Then this.
[38:49.310 --> 38:49.410]  Yeah.
[38:50.590 --> 38:52.570]  So justice for Ernst Watts.
[38:53.070 --> 38:54.410]  Free Bradley Manning.
[38:55.350 --> 38:56.890]  Free Nabila Rajab.
[38:57.310 --> 38:58.150]  Free Anakata.
[38:58.590 --> 38:59.670]  Free Jeremy Hammond.
[39:00.310 --> 39:02.950]  Free Rudolf Elmer, which is a Swiss whistleblower.
[39:03.310 --> 39:04.450]  Free Anakata.
[39:04.470 --> 39:10.030]  Justice for Ernst Watts, who just killed himself two weeks before the performance.
[39:11.890 --> 39:13.090]  Transparency for the state.
[39:13.290 --> 39:14.470]  Privacy for the rest of us.
[39:14.630 --> 39:16.610]  I think this is the most quoted pic.
[39:17.270 --> 39:21.990]  I've seen stickers with this image around in Europe on the laptops of people.
[39:23.090 --> 39:24.070]  Post-Lot is contagious.
[39:24.350 --> 39:24.970]  Thank you, Ecuador.
[39:24.970 --> 39:27.390]  Thank you to all our supporters.
[39:27.950 --> 39:28.550]  Keep fighting.
[39:29.790 --> 39:30.990]  2013, we win.
[39:31.550 --> 39:33.590]  Out of cards.
[39:37.950 --> 39:39.250]  Back to Blake.
[39:39.850 --> 39:40.510]  Thanks.
[39:47.940 --> 39:49.400]  So that's it.
[39:50.160 --> 39:51.560]  Are there any questions?
[39:52.220 --> 39:53.180]  Comments?
[39:54.080 --> 39:54.600]  We're
[39:58.160 --> 40:01.460]  currently working on that are going to be coming out for the next year.
[40:01.720 --> 40:03.840]  We should be on the treatment groundwork.
[40:06.920 --> 40:09.740]  It's kind of hard to talk about stuff.
[40:11.140 --> 40:12.780]  Not because we can't...
[40:12.780 --> 40:17.140]  The problem is, it's very conceptual, our work.
[40:17.460 --> 40:18.620]  The very life.
[40:19.460 --> 40:24.040]  So, what we're working on or what we're really interested in at the moment is...
[40:24.580 --> 40:25.860]  I don't know how to...
[40:25.860 --> 40:27.050]  Don't even know how to call it.
[40:27.240 --> 40:28.240]  Internet underground.
[40:28.940 --> 40:30.160]  Dark grey nets.
[40:30.840 --> 40:32.380]  Subculture, Internet subculture.
[40:33.000 --> 40:35.200]  Collective identities, creation of identities.
[40:36.020 --> 40:52.660]  With the idea that we really think that the Internet has come up with some really good strategies to, for example, counter mass surveillance or to deal with some of the things that are ongoing.
[40:52.960 --> 41:00.540]  And we really wish to sort of take them out of the Internet and into the real world, maybe.
[41:00.880 --> 41:06.020]  I mean, I'm not even sure they're two separate places, but you know what I mean.
[41:06.120 --> 41:11.800]  To sort of look at strategies and try to use them in an artistic practice more...
[41:11.800 --> 41:13.260]  In an offline world.
[41:13.260 --> 41:14.240]  So, we're learning about tour at the moment.
[41:14.640 --> 41:15.860]  We are browsing down in land.
[41:16.720 --> 41:19.050]  There's so many interesting questions in there.
[41:19.820 --> 41:21.050]  Questions about trust.
[41:21.400 --> 41:23.820]  How do you trust people if you don't know each other?
[41:23.860 --> 41:24.600]  If they're anonymous.
[41:24.880 --> 41:26.800]  If they're anonymous, how do you deal with that?
[41:27.000 --> 41:31.040]  Is there something we can use in a cultural environment?
[41:31.360 --> 41:31.960]  Things like this.
[41:32.200 --> 41:34.260]  So, it's more like a broad research.
[41:36.020 --> 41:36.540]  Yes?
[41:37.320 --> 41:39.860]  You might need a few more battery packs for this.
[41:40.100 --> 41:43.340]  But for your next act, maybe you can send something to Chelsea Manning.
[41:43.660 --> 41:45.050]  In which you have left.
[41:45.720 --> 41:46.220]  Yes.
[41:46.840 --> 41:47.540]  She was...
[41:49.260 --> 41:52.680]  So, we sent a second parcel together with Julian Assange.
[41:52.860 --> 41:55.050]  And it should have gone to Chelsea Manning.
[41:55.050 --> 42:07.900]  But because she's so heavily guarded in a prison, we actually wanted to use the time she was in court.
[42:08.180 --> 42:09.320]  So, last summer.
[42:10.200 --> 42:17.340]  And then, the day we wanted to send her the second parcel together with Julian Assange from the Ecuadorian Embassy.
[42:17.340 --> 42:20.660]  The Snowden thing came up.
[42:20.960 --> 42:25.880]  And WikiLeaks sort of got totally to work on that problem.
[42:26.070 --> 42:28.680]  Which just meant we sort of missed that...
[42:29.250 --> 42:30.020]  Opportunity.
[42:30.140 --> 42:30.780]  Opportunity.
[42:31.050 --> 42:39.050]  And we then sent the parcel in October to Nabil Rajab, who's a Bahraini activist.
[42:40.100 --> 42:46.220]  Who has just come out of prison after spending two years there for...
[42:47.000 --> 42:47.940]  Some tweets.
[42:48.280 --> 42:48.940]  For tweets.
[42:49.380 --> 42:53.880]  Tweeting something that the state wasn't happy about.
[42:54.720 --> 42:56.360]  So, this parcel got lost.
[42:56.620 --> 42:57.420]  So, we sent...
[42:57.420 --> 42:58.520]  We tried to send...
[42:58.520 --> 43:00.040]  To reach Nabil Rajab twice.
[43:00.570 --> 43:04.280]  It took five days from London to Bahrain.
[43:05.240 --> 43:06.700]  I mean, I didn't get to Bahrain.
[43:06.860 --> 43:08.280]  We had both parcels...
[43:09.240 --> 43:10.180]  Seized in Dubai.
[43:10.180 --> 43:10.680]  Seized in Dubai.
[43:11.280 --> 43:11.320]  Seized in Dubai.
[43:11.320 --> 43:14.700]  So, we lost the first parcel in Dubai after a big chaos in London.
[43:14.920 --> 43:21.000]  So, nobody wanted to handle the mail, basically.
[43:21.300 --> 43:23.400]  It was just like going from one company to the other.
[43:23.600 --> 43:24.260]  Back and forth.
[43:24.980 --> 43:27.440]  But after four days, it made its way to Dubai.
[43:27.700 --> 43:29.120]  And there, we just lost it.
[43:29.200 --> 43:33.920]  Then, we flew to Dubai and wanted to continue the journey.
[43:33.920 --> 43:39.480]  And posted the parcel at the post office.
[43:39.860 --> 43:42.520]  And it just went to the same place and disappeared again.
[43:42.920 --> 43:45.540]  So, we still have like this open parcel at the moment.
[43:46.080 --> 43:49.780]  Which should make the way from Dubai to Bahrain somewhere.
[43:53.240 --> 43:53.680]  Hi.
[43:54.120 --> 43:55.360]  Thanks for sharing these projects.
[43:55.520 --> 43:56.060]  I think they're great.
[43:56.200 --> 43:57.900]  Really great concepts and execution.
[43:58.620 --> 43:59.880]  I have three questions.
[44:00.120 --> 44:00.360]  Would you like...
[44:00.360 --> 44:02.280]  They're small all at once or one at a time?
[44:03.660 --> 44:04.100]  All right.
[44:04.160 --> 44:04.520]  All at once.
[44:05.080 --> 44:05.900]  All at once.
[44:06.220 --> 44:06.280]  Okay.
[44:06.300 --> 44:08.880]  So, the first one is, did you record the Opera calls?
[44:09.020 --> 44:09.600]  All of them?
[44:09.760 --> 44:11.580]  And how long were they on average?
[44:12.860 --> 44:18.520]  And two, do you have instructions on those wireless camera receiver rigs online?
[44:18.840 --> 44:23.000]  And three, what distribution and window manager are you using on that ThinkPad?
[44:23.560 --> 44:24.040]  Okay.
[44:24.040 --> 44:25.620]  You can answer that one first, maybe.
[44:25.740 --> 44:25.960]  Okay.
[44:25.980 --> 44:26.000]  Okay.
[44:26.060 --> 44:26.500]  We'll go back.
[44:26.640 --> 44:31.000]  So, it's called Crunchbang, which is Debian based.
[44:35.040 --> 44:39.400]  And it's Fluxbox, open box, an open box window manager.
[44:40.140 --> 44:41.420]  And they're really beautiful.
[44:41.840 --> 44:43.440]  Crunchbang is a beautiful project.
[44:43.440 --> 44:44.900]  It's all bare scripts.
[44:45.300 --> 44:46.760]  So, setting up your system.
[44:47.160 --> 44:49.500]  And it's really a really nice community.
[44:50.000 --> 44:52.440]  And it attracts much designers also.
[44:52.680 --> 44:54.620]  People try to do design with Linux.
[44:54.960 --> 44:56.380]  It's not easy, but still.
[44:56.540 --> 44:56.560]  Yeah.
[44:56.560 --> 44:56.740]  That's great.
[44:56.740 --> 44:58.140]  So, yes.
[45:00.160 --> 45:00.880]  Yeah.
[45:01.460 --> 45:03.900]  The Opera calls, we recorded them all.
[45:04.360 --> 45:07.440]  But that had actually had the technical reason.
[45:07.900 --> 45:13.020]  There was, this was like 2007, a voice over IP.
[45:13.360 --> 45:23.440]  And we couldn't see whether the Opera signal was reaching the people at home, live.
[45:23.440 --> 45:33.320]  So, we recorded and through that, we sort of could listen in and listen whether they were really, you know, the loudness was good and whatever.
[45:34.080 --> 45:38.680]  And, but by doing this, we also realized that it was really, really nice material.
[45:38.780 --> 45:40.780]  So, we used this one call.
[45:41.800 --> 45:45.720]  And it's actually, this video is what we show in exhibitions now.
[45:46.000 --> 45:59.400]  So, we always have the problem of, or the problem, I mean, it's, it's a nice problem of doing, when doing live performances, when we exhibit later, we don't like to show documentations.
[45:59.600 --> 46:13.580]  But we really try to go through the, all the material we've sort of collected and sort of find another, how do you say, aesthetic form for the work.
[46:13.580 --> 46:18.060]  So, and yeah, they were, I think, how do you think?
[46:19.880 --> 46:20.620]  On average?
[46:20.800 --> 46:23.760]  On average, they were like two minutes, which is kind of long.
[46:24.080 --> 46:25.840]  The longest was 58 minutes.
[46:26.180 --> 46:29.120]  Yeah, so there was somebody dancing to it for a really long time.
[46:29.360 --> 46:32.360]  And I mean, like some hundreds were just like, you know...
[46:32.360 --> 46:33.000]  Just put the phone down.
[46:33.140 --> 46:37.920]  Put the phone down because they had the feeling it's spam or, you know, somebody who wants to sell something.
[46:37.920 --> 46:38.420]  Right.
[46:38.880 --> 46:39.300]  Yeah.
[46:40.360 --> 46:42.240]  And the Wi-Fi?
[46:43.080 --> 46:44.720]  Yeah, like the camera receivers.
[46:44.980 --> 46:45.260]  Yes.
[46:45.900 --> 46:51.980]  We have how to online, how to build them, but it's, it's actually store bought.
[46:52.340 --> 46:56.480]  I mean, you, you know, we buy the different parts and just put them together.
[46:57.160 --> 46:57.420]  Thanks.
[47:00.680 --> 47:06.180]  Kind of on the note of postal art being contagious, it's of a slightly different subject matter.
[47:10.880 --> 47:18.120]  But back in May, I basically took, I made a soundtrack, like a soundtrack to the surveillance state.
[47:19.040 --> 47:22.520]  And then made a special mixtape, which I then sent to Fort Meade.
[47:22.700 --> 47:24.460]  But in their case, there's two copies.
[47:24.600 --> 47:28.200]  One of them has the header key passphrase, the other one doesn't.
[47:28.620 --> 47:29.820]  They have the one that doesn't.
[47:30.120 --> 47:32.360]  So this is the unencrypted version.
[47:32.360 --> 47:32.600]  This is the tape.
[47:32.780 --> 47:35.020]  Okay, I've seen on Wired and everywhere.
[47:35.020 --> 47:35.860]  Oh, cool.
[47:36.060 --> 47:36.840]  Okay, perfect.
[47:36.860 --> 47:38.280]  Yeah, this is the unencrypted version.
[47:38.280 --> 47:41.480]  So if you want to actually like listen to it, I'll be around.
[47:41.900 --> 47:42.060]  Cool.
[47:42.400 --> 47:43.300]  So just comment on that.
[47:43.380 --> 47:43.400]  Cool.
[47:43.400 --> 47:43.680]  Love to.
[47:44.120 --> 47:44.880]  Great work, man.
[47:49.300 --> 47:53.660]  I sort of would have expected the practice to be x-rayed and then like blown up by a robot or something.
[47:53.880 --> 47:53.960]  Yeah.
[47:55.400 --> 47:56.300]  Did you expect that?
[47:57.100 --> 47:57.460]  Yes.
[47:57.640 --> 47:59.820]  I mean, like we just wouldn't know what's happening.
[47:59.980 --> 48:04.280]  I mean, like everybody, all of our friends in London, they would say, don't go there.
[48:04.280 --> 48:07.400]  You know, I mean, like, it's just like too...
[48:08.000 --> 48:08.320]  Risky.
[48:08.480 --> 48:09.000]  Too risky.
[48:10.100 --> 48:13.480]  But we called our lawyer and she said, I mean, like, this is interesting.
[48:13.860 --> 48:14.740]  We should do that.
[48:14.860 --> 48:16.180]  I'm like, you know, it's just a puzzle.
[48:17.940 --> 48:30.260]  And, yeah, but like afterwards, also visiting Julian, we, they also said us like that they got calls from the police.
[48:30.660 --> 48:35.740]  The Ecuadorian embassy got called by the police to ask them if they should deliver or not.
[48:36.160 --> 48:42.600]  But Julian Assange was kind of, he knew about it, that it's, you know, being delivered.
[48:42.600 --> 48:45.420]  So he insisted on also receiving it.
[48:45.680 --> 48:49.280]  So this is how it made its way in the end.
[48:49.840 --> 48:50.300]  Yeah.
[48:50.360 --> 48:53.600]  And I think it also had to do with it being very public.
[48:54.340 --> 49:00.680]  And I think then it's sort of harder to get rid of something when there's many people watching.
[49:00.800 --> 49:05.480]  It's just like an art piece, which was, you know, going with the system and past maybe barriers.
[49:05.480 --> 49:06.960]  No, it couldn't pass normally.
[49:07.280 --> 49:11.840]  Because it looks, you know, in the x-ray, it looks dangerous.
[49:12.400 --> 49:14.880]  And parcels are x-rayed in the UK.
[49:15.380 --> 49:16.780]  I mean, like, this is for sure.
[49:17.740 --> 49:18.340]  Hello.
[49:19.420 --> 49:19.720]  Hi.
[49:20.420 --> 49:20.880]  Hi.
[49:20.880 --> 49:24.760]  Who are some of the artists that you admire through history?
[49:24.760 --> 49:34.100]  And what do you think people who have computer knowledge can take from practicing art in this kind of culture today?
[49:36.620 --> 49:39.480]  I mean, like, we try to learn from computer hackers.
[49:39.760 --> 49:44.380]  So it's really, I don't know, what we try to...
[49:44.380 --> 49:58.660]  I mean, like we said, we are also kind of hackers, you know, in the sense of having, like, this systematic view on things and trying to misplace the players and try to figure out how things work and then, you know, intervene and change something maybe,
[49:58.780 --> 49:59.440]  change code.
[49:59.980 --> 50:02.080]  But on a cultural level also.
[50:02.480 --> 50:04.520]  So this is something which...
[50:04.520 --> 50:07.360]  There's so much knowledge here which is easy and pliable.
[50:08.200 --> 50:13.960]  Not only to computers or to technology, but also to different parts.
[50:14.780 --> 50:27.000]  Yeah, and I guess we probably come from a Dadaist or Netart comes from a Dadaist and Fluxus sort of background.
[50:27.000 --> 50:31.240]  And I think there's a lot of strategies there that are really interesting.
[50:32.720 --> 50:46.840]  And we really, we're really keen on finding levels of talking with people who come from, more from tech or other parts of art.
[50:46.980 --> 51:07.260]  Because we think it's really important to tackle the problems we have surrounding technology and the conflicts that are arising and that are probably going to get a lot worse and affect us all deeply to find different ways of tackling them in different systems.
[51:07.560 --> 51:25.160]  And we think it's really important to talk about these problems in art because art tends to be a system that sort of drifts away from society and sort of minds its own business.
[51:25.460 --> 51:34.840]  And we really think it's very important to focus on the problems we have at the moment and do that together in whatever we're good at.
[51:36.540 --> 51:37.260]  Thanks.
[51:37.560 --> 51:38.080]  Thanks.