[00:13.400 --> 00:15.220]  Do you need spotting?
[00:15.360 --> 00:16.600]  Can you take a break or anything?
[00:17.140 --> 00:19.120]  I'm okay actually, I just came back from a break.
[00:19.560 --> 00:20.340]  Thank you.
[00:21.920 --> 00:22.640]  What's happening?
[00:22.720 --> 00:27.620]  With the tapes afterward, are they going to... Is there a... Emmanuel, I have no idea.
[00:28.160 --> 00:28.980]  Okay, I'll talk to you now.
[00:30.920 --> 00:31.820]  I don't know.
[00:32.520 --> 00:37.400]  We've got a few G4s at the Indy Media Center, so we can definitely help with them.
[01:02.030 --> 01:03.830]  Okay, are we ready to get started?
[01:06.690 --> 01:07.710]  My name is Jim.
[01:09.650 --> 01:14.050]  The handle on the internet would be Sips, but I'm not really a hacker per se.
[01:14.230 --> 01:15.830]  I'm just starting out.
[01:16.950 --> 01:22.970]  I went to college and got a two-year degree in nanofabrication technology.
[01:24.770 --> 01:27.050]  And while I was doing that, I discovered hacking.
[01:27.050 --> 01:32.850]  And I applied the hacker ethic and the thirst to learn to my studies.
[01:33.050 --> 01:35.950]  And it's rewarded me with a job.
[01:37.850 --> 01:41.930]  But yes, the name of this presentation is Hacking Nanotech.
[01:42.210 --> 01:50.570]  And I'm not at all worried about the turnout because personally I'd rather be at the social engineering right now than giving this speech.
[01:54.290 --> 01:59.210]  I graduated in 2000 with an associate's degree in nanofabrication technology.
[01:59.610 --> 02:03.090]  I was the first student in the entire nation to graduate with such a degree.
[02:04.850 --> 02:08.790]  From what I know now, I believe Pennsylvania is the only state where you can get that.
[02:09.350 --> 02:13.570]  And through Penn State is the only university that you can actually get it at.
[02:14.950 --> 02:17.070]  It was a brand new program.
[02:17.270 --> 02:18.630]  There were seven people in my class.
[02:20.610 --> 02:23.550]  You take three semesters of...
[02:29.870 --> 02:32.790]  There were seven people in my class.
[02:32.790 --> 02:39.770]  We took three semesters of electronics classes, a basic physics class, a basic chemistry class.
[02:40.710 --> 02:44.210]  We were supposed to take a bio, but we never got to that.
[02:46.350 --> 02:52.510]  So nanofabrication right now, present day refers mostly to microfabrication.
[02:52.710 --> 02:58.030]  Where it's the building of CPUs and silicon based technology.
[02:59.030 --> 03:02.650]  So, how many people have ever even heard of the word nano or nanotech?
[03:03.550 --> 03:04.350]  Okay, good.
[03:05.930 --> 03:14.490]  For those who might not have heard, nano is a... I believe it's a Latin prefix for... really small.
[03:14.770 --> 03:16.230]  But ten to the negative nine.
[03:16.890 --> 03:18.650]  Micro would be ten to the negative six.
[03:19.250 --> 03:19.730]  Microprocessor.
[03:21.350 --> 03:23.310]  Ten to the negative nine is one billion.
[03:24.350 --> 03:27.750]  So nanometer is the unit that we're talking about here.
[03:27.910 --> 03:29.090]  One billionth of a meter.
[03:29.890 --> 03:33.870]  A regular meter stick might have a thousand millimeters.
[03:34.930 --> 03:37.890]  A nanometer stick would have one billion markings.
[03:39.250 --> 03:46.010]  So I'm going to take a couple minutes to try and relate what a billionth is because that's a real hard concept for...
[03:46.010 --> 03:47.750]  for people to grasp sometimes.
[03:48.010 --> 03:49.710]  It's just how big are we making devices?
[03:49.970 --> 03:51.370]  Just how big are we making things?
[03:52.670 --> 03:53.670]  Human hair.
[03:53.830 --> 03:56.570]  Cross section of human hair is about 80,000 nanometers.
[03:57.930 --> 04:01.810]  A grain of sand is 250,000 nanometers across.
[04:02.330 --> 04:06.550]  And we build transistors that are 130 nanometers wide.
[04:07.030 --> 04:13.270]  So we can build hundreds of transistors inside a single piece of sand.
[04:13.630 --> 04:14.590]  A single grain of sand.
[04:14.590 --> 04:18.490]  We could build entire circuits on the cross section of the human hair.
[04:19.210 --> 04:20.370]  And that's present day.
[04:20.510 --> 04:21.870]  That's what's in your Pentium fours.
[04:21.970 --> 04:23.150]  Probably even your Pentium threes.
[04:24.250 --> 04:28.390]  And probably all the way down your Pentium, your accelerons and stuff like that.
[04:30.210 --> 04:33.230]  Now, 130 nanometer transistors are production.
[04:34.230 --> 04:37.970]  There exists a gap between production and research.
[04:37.970 --> 04:46.770]  In research, IBM has already developed a single electron transistor using current induced localized oxidation.
[04:47.970 --> 04:50.250]  It's on the ibm.com slash research.
[04:50.950 --> 04:54.170]  If you want to check that out, they'll give you a neat little tutorial on how that's done.
[04:55.970 --> 04:58.070]  So, that's what nano is.
[04:58.230 --> 04:59.370]  It's 10 to the negative 9.
[04:59.790 --> 05:02.050]  It's building things that are very small.
[05:02.230 --> 05:04.670]  One, we can build devices that small.
[05:04.850 --> 05:07.290]  We don't have to limit ourselves to just transistors anymore.
[05:07.290 --> 05:08.610]  We can build anything we want.
[05:09.590 --> 05:14.070]  We can groove a channel in a piece of glass that is 100 nanometers wide.
[05:14.250 --> 05:20.250]  And then use separation to get DNA structures.
[05:20.690 --> 05:26.110]  We can do chemical reactions of very dangerous toxic chemicals.
[05:26.310 --> 05:31.130]  Not by the whole test tube where we waste 20 milliliters of dangerous liquid.
[05:31.270 --> 05:35.090]  Or 20 milliliters of an extremely precious cure for some disease.
[05:35.090 --> 05:40.010]  We can do it with nanometers of materials.
[05:40.270 --> 05:41.350]  So we save money on that.
[05:42.190 --> 05:43.890]  And there's less waste.
[05:45.650 --> 05:47.410]  Nanofabrication and microfabrication.
[05:48.550 --> 05:52.310]  Microfabrication refers to top-down technology.
[05:52.590 --> 05:54.090]  Or top-down manufacturing.
[05:54.110 --> 05:59.530]  Where we take a substance and whittle away until we have what we wanted.
[05:59.530 --> 06:03.210]  My analogy for this is a pencil.
[06:03.470 --> 06:04.670]  We cut a tree down.
[06:05.590 --> 06:07.350]  A three-foot diameter tree.
[06:07.990 --> 06:11.330]  And we whittle away at that tree until we have the material for a pencil.
[06:12.250 --> 06:15.190]  And that's just how you have to make a pencil right now.
[06:16.590 --> 06:18.710]  Nanotechnology is bottom-up technology.
[06:20.550 --> 06:25.730]  Nanotechnology will enable us to take carbon atoms and build a pencil from carbon atoms.
[06:25.730 --> 06:31.690]  We will arrange the hydrogen and carbon atoms into the shape of wood and then build a pencil that way.
[06:32.490 --> 06:40.750]  A formal definition of nanotechnology is the ability to manufacture objects and structures with atomic precision.
[06:41.090 --> 06:43.010]  Literally moving atom by atom.
[06:45.790 --> 06:47.790]  That's a bit grand of a definition.
[06:47.790 --> 06:49.130]  But that's what it is.
[06:49.790 --> 06:51.330]  Are we at that stage right now?
[06:52.210 --> 06:53.150]  Not exactly.
[06:53.970 --> 06:57.310]  So I'm going to go to a short history of how this all got started.
[06:58.150 --> 07:04.190]  In 1959, Richard Feynman, he wrote a piece called There's Plenty of Room at the Bottom.
[07:04.190 --> 07:06.110]  Where he predicts small technology.
[07:06.710 --> 07:12.030]  I believe the piece had something more to do with writing whole volumes of encyclopedias in small areas.
[07:12.030 --> 07:20.550]  He predicted one day that we would be able to move the atom and place other atoms next to it and build things very small like that.
[07:20.750 --> 07:22.490]  And as small as we can go.
[07:23.270 --> 07:26.730]  In 1962, Honeywell developed the first MEMS.
[07:26.870 --> 07:28.130]  It was a pressure sensor.
[07:28.730 --> 07:31.730]  MEMS is a micro-electro-mechanical system.
[07:33.190 --> 07:37.510]  MEMS aren't really nano, but they aren't really nanotech, but they're still cool.
[07:37.510 --> 07:42.570]  They're the things that you may have heard about with the nanorobots and stuff like that.
[07:43.690 --> 07:49.990]  MEMS allows us to make devices using quantum physics where gravity is no longer an issue.
[07:50.590 --> 07:55.350]  The major players in building stuff are the atomic forces between molecules.
[07:57.590 --> 08:04.490]  1970s, Xerox Palo Alto began research into the first MEMS ink nozzles for BubbleJet printers.
[08:05.430 --> 08:16.770]  I believe today, Canon BubbleJet uses nanotechnology to force a small bubble of air to push the small dot of ink onto the paper.
[08:16.770 --> 08:20.390]  And that's how they're able to get such precise pixel depth.
[08:24.550 --> 08:29.090]  1981, the scanning tunneling microscope was built.
[08:29.650 --> 08:32.890]  In 1986, the atomic force microscope was built.
[08:33.270 --> 08:35.670]  It's also called the scanning force microscope.
[08:36.590 --> 08:40.230]  I'm going to talk a little bit later about the AFM atomic force microscope.
[08:40.230 --> 08:48.050]  But what it does is it measures the topology of a surface by dragging an ultrafine needle across the surface.
[08:51.190 --> 08:54.410]  And it's not like a record which will vibrate.
[08:54.590 --> 08:57.850]  It's a single direction needle.
[08:58.070 --> 09:02.110]  So, if I were to drag the needle across here, it would go up and register that way.
[09:03.850 --> 09:12.290]  In 1990, the near-field optical microscope was developed that greatly enhanced our ability to look at smaller and smaller things.
[09:13.130 --> 09:17.770]  Our ability to see larger molecules came at that point.
[09:18.010 --> 09:21.490]  And that was, like I said, 1990, you know, 12 years ago.
[09:23.470 --> 09:25.850]  Oh yeah, another quick reference of time.
[09:26.430 --> 09:31.750]  I'm 22, so I don't get any jokes about Mork and Mindy when it comes to this subject.
[09:32.430 --> 09:34.770]  So, in case anybody catches a reference to that.
[09:36.170 --> 09:40.850]  Carbon nanotubes were developed in 1991 by Sumio Lejima.
[09:41.610 --> 09:49.610]  There's been a little bit of confusion when I was researching that to see who actually got credit for the first nanotube, carbon nanotube.
[09:49.710 --> 09:55.090]  Carbon nanotube is, can you imagine, a chain-link fence made out of carbon atoms.
[09:55.090 --> 09:57.230]  And then they roll it upon themselves.
[09:57.410 --> 10:00.770]  That structure happens to be the strongest structure known to man.
[10:02.350 --> 10:05.090]  So, it blows anything made out of titanium out of the water.
[10:06.590 --> 10:12.130]  Carbon nanotubes are what are going to be the revolutionary effect of nanotechnology.
[10:12.490 --> 10:20.590]  Once we are able to have better control over carbon nanotubes, we'll be able to build them into everything.
[10:20.590 --> 10:24.270]  We'll be able to build things ultra-light, ultra-strong, ultra-flexible.
[10:25.390 --> 10:30.950]  Aircrafts that are, you know, unimaginably large, yet incredibly light and fast.
[10:32.390 --> 10:33.090]  Buckyballs.
[10:33.610 --> 10:34.310]  Buckyballs.
[10:34.310 --> 10:34.670]  That's...
[10:34.670 --> 10:37.010]  Buckyballs is short for...
[10:38.030 --> 10:39.270]  I forgot it.
[10:40.130 --> 10:40.830]  Buckminster...
[10:40.830 --> 10:41.170]  Fuller.
[10:41.330 --> 10:41.490]  Fuller.
[10:41.650 --> 10:43.410]  Yeah, that's Buckminster Fuller.
[10:44.650 --> 10:46.370]  That was developed in 1996.
[10:46.910 --> 10:49.090]  Also, some confusion of who developed that.
[10:49.470 --> 10:51.170]  Harry Croto, it looks like.
[10:51.670 --> 10:53.950]  It is the third form of carbon.
[10:56.310 --> 10:59.690]  Formally, they only thought there were two kinds of pure carbon.
[10:59.850 --> 11:05.410]  That was graphite and diamond.
[11:07.730 --> 11:09.810]  1992, a man by the name of K.
[11:09.990 --> 11:11.590]  Eric Drexler, Dr. K.
[11:11.750 --> 11:14.950]  Eric Drexler, he writes a book called Nanosystems.
[11:15.930 --> 11:23.170]  It was the first time that anyone had really stopped and looked at Feynman's work and said, hey, you know, maybe we should be doing some research into this.
[11:23.570 --> 11:26.010]  So, he wrote a book called Nanosystems.
[11:26.090 --> 11:30.070]  It outlines much theory required for nanotech.
[11:30.190 --> 11:31.230]  What are we going to have to do?
[11:31.310 --> 11:32.110]  What are the equations?
[11:32.230 --> 11:32.810]  Some courses.
[11:34.070 --> 11:36.410]  And I'm going to go back to him in a second.
[11:37.250 --> 11:45.350]  And, you know, of course they said MEMS weren't really nanotechnology, but on a more up-to-date note, they've built things.
[11:45.350 --> 11:50.750]  Like in 1999 to 2001, MIT built a gas turbine engine.
[11:51.370 --> 11:53.150]  This engine was the size of a dime.
[11:53.910 --> 11:59.030]  Three millimeters thick, one centimeter wide, 1.2 million RPM.
[12:00.630 --> 12:03.970]  So, a gas turbine engine, the size of a U.S.
[12:04.030 --> 12:04.270]  dime.
[12:05.870 --> 12:09.570]  And it was made using all the same technologies that Pentium-3s are made.
[12:09.570 --> 12:13.330]  So, it's not real super sophisticated technology.
[12:13.330 --> 12:15.610]  It was just a different approach to it.
[12:16.350 --> 12:21.630]  So, I'm going to go back to Drexler because he writes a lot of material.
[12:21.830 --> 12:25.150]  He's got a lot of theses and books out.
[12:25.790 --> 12:26.390]  Nanosystems.
[12:26.530 --> 12:32.970]  If you go to foresight.org and look up Unbounding the Future, it's an online book.
[12:33.190 --> 12:35.150]  It's like 200 and some odd pages.
[12:36.870 --> 12:40.910]  It was written in 91, Unbounding the Future.
[12:41.710 --> 12:50.190]  It gives a description of what the future may be like for human beings once nanotechnology becomes mainstream and more worked on, more developed.
[12:51.170 --> 12:54.470]  This is the part where I start to tell you about nanorobots.
[12:55.070 --> 12:57.690]  We know viruses are one of the smallest things that we know.
[12:58.130 --> 12:59.630]  They're very self-contained.
[12:59.630 --> 13:06.670]  They've got a structure that allows them to replicate themselves and other things like that.
[13:07.030 --> 13:09.070]  Well, nanorobots are smaller than viruses.
[13:09.350 --> 13:18.990]  And they can seek out and destroy nanoviruses by just destroying the atomic bonds between the DNA that holds the thing together.
[13:18.990 --> 13:20.690]  Same with cancers.
[13:21.390 --> 13:23.950]  Human blood cells 10,000 nanometers across.
[13:24.790 --> 13:38.090]  Well, if we're building devices that are 130 nanometers, we can build other devices that are even smaller and actually destroy bad blood cells, repair blood cells.
[13:39.990 --> 13:45.510]  This nanotechnology has been slated as being able to make the frozen head thing come true.
[13:45.510 --> 13:48.130]  People have had their heads cryogenically frozen.
[13:49.930 --> 13:56.690]  Anything frozen suffers the problem of water expanding in the cell and bursting in the nucleus and bursting in the cell walls.
[13:57.550 --> 14:01.910]  Nanotechnology might allow the re-assembilation of the cell walls.
[14:02.230 --> 14:08.210]  And people may be able to be cryogenically frozen for any number of years and brought back to life.
[14:10.010 --> 14:18.570]  There's more research into using nanotechnology to reassemble nerve cells so that way head transplants are possible.
[14:18.730 --> 14:21.470]  These are some crazy ideas that people have come up with.
[14:21.790 --> 14:28.670]  But if you go out there and you look up the technical data, you'll be able to find out, hey, you know, we're not just making transistors anymore.
[14:28.670 --> 14:30.510]  We're doing some crazy stuff like this.
[14:31.570 --> 14:35.110]  So, looping back to the atomic force microscope.
[14:36.310 --> 14:40.170]  This is the part now where I tell you guys about what we can do as far as nanotechnology.
[14:40.550 --> 14:45.730]  Nanotechnology is an ultimate goal that we will realize maybe in our lifetimes.
[14:45.730 --> 14:49.610]  Maybe in my lifetime we'll be able to realize a better portion of nanotechnology.
[14:50.490 --> 14:54.930]  Like I said, the atomic force microscope drags a needle across the surface.
[14:54.930 --> 15:00.790]  And that needle is ultra-fine, maybe a couple of molecules wide.
[15:01.370 --> 15:07.810]  And they've discovered by building the needle out of different materials, you get different charges on it.
[15:08.110 --> 15:12.250]  And different abilities to grab other atoms that stick to it.
[15:12.630 --> 15:15.210]  Or be able to push other atoms around.
[15:15.370 --> 15:15.750]  IBM.
[15:16.390 --> 15:18.890]  Has anybody ever seen the picture of the IBM logo?
[15:19.150 --> 15:20.910]  Looks like 37 dots.
[15:21.730 --> 15:23.870]  Those are xenon atoms.
[15:23.870 --> 15:29.870]  IBM used an atomic force microscope to drag inner xenon atoms across a substrate.
[15:30.770 --> 15:32.310]  And align them to spell IBM.
[15:32.570 --> 15:34.150]  The world's smallest logo.
[15:37.050 --> 15:37.930]  What was it?
[15:38.310 --> 15:39.070]  Current achievements.
[15:39.730 --> 15:41.130]  So that's one of the things we can do.
[15:41.250 --> 15:45.090]  Like I said, the single electron transistor is also an IBM thing.
[15:46.090 --> 15:49.310]  I mentioned before about having control over the nanotubes.
[15:49.350 --> 15:52.450]  It would allow us to incorporate them in more structures.
[15:52.450 --> 15:57.490]  IBM also has more work on their site about manipulating nanotubes.
[15:59.550 --> 16:00.630]  Carbon nanotubes.
[16:00.750 --> 16:02.390]  They have been able to bend them in circles.
[16:02.670 --> 16:04.470]  Attach a couple up together in a ring.
[16:05.110 --> 16:08.830]  Do all kinds of crazy stuff using the atomic force microscope.
[16:12.170 --> 16:18.750]  Yeah, if anybody has any questions that relate exactly to what I'm saying now, go ahead and just come up and say it.
[16:18.910 --> 16:25.430]  But I'm getting close to a section where I'll be able to open the floor up to any kind of even predictions.
[16:25.430 --> 16:27.070]  How big are the needles?
[16:27.330 --> 16:30.430]  How big are the needles on the atomic force microscope?
[16:31.150 --> 16:37.230]  Like I said, I've only been able to find some data called just ultrafine.
[16:38.030 --> 16:46.470]  If I had to use what I know about nanotech, I would say in the range of maybe 50 nanometers or something even smaller than that.
[16:46.710 --> 16:52.390]  Because I keep saying nanometers, but I might have forgot to mention a unit of measurement called an angstrom.
[16:52.690 --> 16:55.150]  An angstrom is about the width of a hydrogen atom.
[16:55.150 --> 16:57.270]  And there are 10 angstroms in a nanometer.
[16:57.670 --> 17:03.450]  So we're building transistors that are 1,300 hydrogen atoms wide.
[17:07.690 --> 17:19.270]  Nanotechnology today is being used in things like smart band-aids, being able to tell when an infection or, I'm sorry, a wound has been infected.
[17:20.730 --> 17:24.730]  DNA chips, a company called Agilent, makes DNA chips today.
[17:25.010 --> 17:29.530]  Where they can do DNA separation and characterization that way.
[17:30.730 --> 17:34.710]  Like micro-reactors for doing dangerous chemical reactions.
[17:35.490 --> 17:35.930]  Question?
[17:36.210 --> 17:40.350]  Do you expand the DNA chips with the Agilent product?
[17:41.790 --> 17:46.670]  They build a thing that's about half the size of these cards.
[17:46.670 --> 17:54.650]  And it has... I've only seen one and they won't let me have one, but they're for sale.
[17:54.810 --> 17:55.970]  I mean, you can get them for like $25.
[17:56.390 --> 17:59.370]  I just found out yesterday that they actually, production, make them.
[17:59.490 --> 18:03.250]  They have 16 wells where you can add chemicals and blood.
[18:04.870 --> 18:10.790]  And it has underneath the bottom of it, the actual substrate with the nanotechnology device in the bottom.
[18:10.790 --> 18:13.230]  It's, I would say, roughly the size of a quarter.
[18:13.650 --> 18:17.830]  And they have channels etched into glass, silken dioxide.
[18:18.690 --> 18:24.110]  And using those channels, they can separate the blood and do the reactions that they need to.
[18:24.210 --> 18:34.210]  These chips then split into a customized computer that will analyze all kinds of crap using electronics and photo.
[18:42.750 --> 18:45.250]  What do the chips do with the DNA?
[18:46.790 --> 18:53.890]  Based on a comment, it sounds like the device is designed for shotgun DNA sequencing.
[18:56.210 --> 18:57.350]  You think sequencing?
[18:57.750 --> 19:00.730]  Does it do DNA sequencing or replication?
[19:01.810 --> 19:04.870]  No, not replication, but I would say sequencing.
[19:05.450 --> 19:07.970]  My personal background is in the electronics area.
[19:08.110 --> 19:09.350]  So I'm trying to read up on the bio.
[19:09.510 --> 19:12.490]  Like I said, I tried to take a bio in college and I didn't get to it.
[19:15.170 --> 19:19.110]  So, yeah, the DNA chips are actually out there by Agilent.
[19:19.230 --> 19:20.790]  I think they're like $30 a chip.
[19:21.410 --> 19:23.070]  And it's mostly plastic.
[19:23.290 --> 19:27.070]  I don't think there are actually any electrical contacts on the thing anywhere.
[19:27.210 --> 19:27.870]  I couldn't see one.
[19:29.110 --> 19:31.890]  DNA and RNA, they have RNA chips too.
[19:33.950 --> 19:52.550]  Just to close the subject of the Agilent products, if you go to websites such as nature.com, they're the big publisher of scientific information, they're plastered all over with ads by different manufacturers for devices such as you described, to do DNA sequencing,
[19:52.850 --> 19:55.790]  to do nuclear separation, all sorts of things.
[19:56.230 --> 19:56.370]  Okay.
[19:59.210 --> 20:20.710]  When I get to the next section, which is hacking nanotech, the actual hacking of this technology by people like us, even by the people, the scientists, DNA becomes a scary issue because, like I said, if we can move xenon atoms around, the thing that makes up DNA is atoms anyway.
[20:20.970 --> 20:25.730]  So, using hydrogen, different bonds of hydrogen, we can build our own DNA.
[20:27.610 --> 20:30.950]  So, I'm going to jump full stream into hacking nanotech.
[20:31.110 --> 20:33.110]  What exactly is hacking nanotech?
[20:33.210 --> 20:35.230]  What can we do to get involved?
[20:36.810 --> 20:39.770]  By show of hands, who has an atomic force microscope at home?
[20:40.710 --> 20:40.770]  Yeah.
[20:41.890 --> 20:42.450]  Me too.
[20:42.610 --> 20:43.770]  Mine's the 900 model.
[20:44.130 --> 20:44.410]  Do you have that?
[20:46.250 --> 20:47.190]  Yeah, on eBay.
[20:47.650 --> 20:51.010]  An atomic force microscope isn't something that most people are going to come by at all.
[20:51.350 --> 20:51.770]  Question?
[20:51.770 --> 20:54.610]  Could you explain why it's called that?
[20:54.890 --> 21:07.410]  The atomic force microscope uses that ultrafine needle and the forces of atoms, the electrical forces of the protons and the electrons, to do that trace.
[21:07.610 --> 21:11.270]  When the needle hits a bump, it's actually not hitting a physical bump.
[21:11.330 --> 21:14.190]  It's being pushed by a force.
[21:14.410 --> 21:19.690]  So, it was also called the scanning force microscope, too.
[21:19.690 --> 21:23.170]  So, that word actually makes more sense.
[21:24.290 --> 21:25.750]  Like when you drag...
[21:25.750 --> 21:27.190]  Does anybody know what a profilometer is?
[21:27.470 --> 21:39.890]  It's sort of like a record player, but it would drag across like a mountain-type terrain and record movement with a quartz crystal, like a record head would.
[21:39.890 --> 21:43.770]  But this records movement with electrical charge.
[21:44.110 --> 21:48.950]  So, when the needle passes across a large molecule like...
[21:49.750 --> 21:51.590]  I don't even know what...
[21:51.590 --> 21:53.010]  Like say...
[21:53.010 --> 21:53.890]  I don't know...
[21:53.890 --> 21:57.010]  Like an alcohol molecule of benzinine or something.
[21:57.250 --> 21:59.810]  It would trace the outline of the benzinine.
[22:00.030 --> 22:06.110]  And you'd have something like that using the electron flow.
[22:06.910 --> 22:09.610]  So, it is very closely related to electronics.
[22:10.170 --> 22:15.190]  And anybody interested in getting into nano must take some kind of electronics courses.
[22:15.490 --> 22:19.790]  That will allow you to learn where we were coming from and how we were able to get down to this.
[22:19.790 --> 22:27.130]  And then, while you're in there, you might as well take some more chemistry classes and some more biology classes.
[22:30.790 --> 22:31.670]  Hacking nanotech.
[22:31.770 --> 22:32.890]  What can we do?
[22:33.190 --> 22:41.190]  Since we're not going to have an atomic force microscope, the next thing that you could come up with is maybe design something with your cannon bubble jet.
[22:41.850 --> 22:42.910]  That's far out.
[22:43.010 --> 22:45.010]  I just thought of it like two days ago.
[22:45.010 --> 22:51.290]  So, if you want to do some hardware hacking of your cannon bubble jet for whatever you want to do.
[22:52.650 --> 22:58.010]  Oh, cannon is working on a project to develop a DNA printer.
[22:58.550 --> 23:04.550]  Where you would feed it a sample and it would use nanotechnology to actually print out the sequence of the DNA.
[23:04.990 --> 23:10.590]  It would make analyzing criminal databases and stuff much shorter.
[23:10.590 --> 23:13.110]  But, I'm not going to say if that's good or bad.
[23:16.130 --> 23:19.070]  So, what can computer hackers do to get into nanotech?
[23:19.210 --> 23:19.950]  Get out there.
[23:20.030 --> 23:20.590]  Get on the net.
[23:20.710 --> 23:21.630]  Research this stuff.
[23:22.730 --> 23:27.610]  I had access to the equipment because I enrolled into a college program.
[23:27.850 --> 23:32.330]  So, get out there and find what college institutions will let you in.
[23:33.650 --> 23:40.850]  Maybe even if you have to social engineer your way into saying I'm such and such from a company doing research.
[23:40.850 --> 23:41.810]  Can I use your equipment?
[23:42.030 --> 23:47.910]  The National Nanofabrication Users Network, NNUN.
[23:48.890 --> 23:54.130]  Some laboratories are NNUN certified where you just pay for lab time and pay for equipment.
[23:54.910 --> 23:55.910]  Penn State is one.
[23:56.070 --> 23:58.170]  I believe MIT has a nanofab.
[23:58.610 --> 24:01.570]  There are some out in California but I'm not real familiar with those.
[24:02.350 --> 24:05.850]  So, you can actually get in there and get your hands on this technology.
[24:06.130 --> 24:10.830]  But, for right now, what you should be working on is simulation software.
[24:12.410 --> 24:19.070]  Somebody may one day build a device called an assembler which will manipulate atoms to where they want, even building more assemblers.
[24:19.070 --> 24:24.210]  And with that technology, be able to build anything they want really fast.
[24:25.510 --> 24:31.790]  If you do some... the research I was doing on nanotechnology surprisingly scared me because I found a lot of stuff on sociology.
[24:32.370 --> 24:38.150]  And I was looking for hardcore technical data about nanometers and femtoseconds and stuff like that.
[24:38.250 --> 24:46.410]  And I found stuff about upheaval of the current social system that we have in the world because of decentralized manufacturing.
[24:46.410 --> 24:50.930]  If anyone can build an assembler, then they can build anything they want.
[24:51.190 --> 24:52.990]  So, what's the point of having a government?
[24:53.350 --> 24:58.710]  And then it turns into who has the knowledge and who has the power of the assemblers that can control production.
[25:00.470 --> 25:03.170]  And that's all described in Drexler's book.
[25:04.450 --> 25:10.210]  I feel kind of bad for what I'm about to say because I only have a two-year degree and this guy has a doctorate with some stuff.
[25:10.430 --> 25:14.290]  But his work isn't 100% factual.
[25:14.670 --> 25:20.850]  He daydreams a bit and he gets a little grand in what he does.
[25:21.010 --> 25:23.510]  He writes for the public.
[25:23.770 --> 25:29.510]  He doesn't write for people like us who will research his work and tear it apart.
[25:30.490 --> 25:41.510]  He writes for the housewife who's sitting at home going, Oh my God, I don't want nanorobots turning everything that they touch into other nanorobots until the apocalypse of the grey goo problem.
[25:43.190 --> 25:47.130]  That's some more keywords if you guys want to do research on that.
[25:47.270 --> 25:48.470]  Grey goo and blue goo.
[25:48.470 --> 26:07.090]  Grey goo is an apocalyptic scenario where the development of a nano-assembler programmed to design other nano-assemblers goes unabounded and turns every atom in the entire earth into other nano-assemblers.
[26:07.710 --> 26:09.330]  Effectively killing everything.
[26:09.330 --> 26:21.790]  The blue goo is supposed to be a check on this where we design nanorobots that are programmed to seek and destroy self-replicating nanorobots.
[26:22.010 --> 26:30.390]  So we unleash a certain number of blue nanorobots out into the world.
[26:30.390 --> 26:40.530]  And if something happens in a lab, something goes wrong and the grey goo scenario starts to take over, the blue goo will already be there and be able to self-contain this area.
[26:41.210 --> 26:48.510]  Foresight Institute also is developing some ethical rules.
[26:48.810 --> 26:54.890]  Don't design nanorobots that can function off of really easy available resources.
[26:55.790 --> 27:00.870]  Build vitamins, they call them vitamins or keys, as their source of fuel.
[27:01.090 --> 27:05.990]  So that they can only take apart this kind of molecule which doesn't occur very naturally in the environment.
[27:06.510 --> 27:09.890]  So if something were to go wrong, it would be a localized problem.
[27:13.750 --> 27:23.270]  So the people who are sitting thinking of this need better software because they might be quantum physics people.
[27:23.270 --> 27:26.050]  They're not really software engineers, per se.
[27:26.330 --> 27:31.550]  So they might need some software that allows them to simulate an atomic force microscope.
[27:31.810 --> 27:38.570]  I haven't found any yet, but the word is that there is software available that will simulate an atomic force microscope.
[27:39.190 --> 27:48.870]  So grab some of this software, develop your own, and drag some xenon atoms across whatever and put them next to each other and see if they bounce away or if they stick.
[27:48.870 --> 27:55.610]  Or build a grain of salt, sodium chloride.
[27:55.870 --> 27:58.010]  Just put sodium next to chlorine.
[27:59.470 --> 28:01.290]  So that's what we can do.
[28:01.810 --> 28:15.410]  Another less advisable technique is the equipment that processes these things like chemical vapor deposition tools, all the major tools that make all this equipment.
[28:16.090 --> 28:18.370]  Personally, I found out that they run.
[28:18.570 --> 28:21.910]  They have computers running them, which shouldn't be a real surprise.
[28:22.130 --> 28:27.930]  But the surprise is they run operating systems like Windows 3.1 and DOS 4.
[28:28.170 --> 28:30.410]  So it's kind of funny.
[28:30.930 --> 28:37.350]  And what use would a big expensive piece of equipment be if it weren't connected to a network?
[28:37.350 --> 28:42.630]  Don't advise breaking into these systems because you might destroy somebody's very valuable research.
[28:43.450 --> 28:54.330]  But just a security warning for people to make their Windows 3.1 system running the atomic force microscope a little bit more secure because of people like us that might be out there.
[28:56.890 --> 28:58.130]  All the answers are out there.
[28:58.250 --> 28:59.130]  We've just got to go find them.
[28:59.430 --> 29:10.390]  And if you can't find an answer that you need to make your idea work, make it up and take it to an engineer or take it to a doctorate person and say, Hey, this is what I think.
[29:10.510 --> 29:12.850]  I wasn't able to find this anywhere, but this is what I think.
[29:12.850 --> 29:17.090]  And they'll be able to bounce ideas off you and give you a better understanding.
[29:18.610 --> 29:19.250]  Websites.
[29:19.550 --> 29:20.910]  I'm just going to throw a couple out there.
[29:21.150 --> 29:22.390]  Nanoworld.net.
[29:24.010 --> 29:25.230]  Nano.gov.
[29:27.550 --> 29:28.670]  Nanotext.org.
[29:31.110 --> 29:35.490]  So there's not as much information on Google.
[29:36.050 --> 29:39.490]  There's not enough returned information from Google about nanotechnology.
[29:42.330 --> 29:47.470]  And if anyone's going to do a Google search, nanotech is one word.
[29:47.730 --> 29:50.350]  And it'll spell correct that for you.
[29:50.630 --> 29:53.530]  So any questions about the technology?
[29:53.690 --> 29:54.610]  About what we can do?
[29:54.770 --> 29:55.890]  What this might mean?
[29:56.530 --> 30:01.250]  Anybody who just has some ideas that they just want to throw out, just come up to the mic and shout them out.
[30:02.130 --> 30:03.970]  First, I'd like to thank you for speaking today.
[30:04.110 --> 30:09.050]  This is a subject that you don't see a whole lot about in the mainstream.
[30:09.790 --> 30:14.890]  And I'd just like to encourage everybody here to do some independent research on nanotech.
[30:15.190 --> 30:20.190]  And hopefully you can get a body of knowledge created and advance the science.
[30:20.530 --> 30:20.830]  Thank you.
[30:21.350 --> 30:21.930]  Thank you.
[30:21.930 --> 30:26.090]  As far as advancing the science real quick, like I mentioned, nano.gov.
[30:26.910 --> 30:37.910]  The Foresight made the recommendation that to avoid apocalyptic scenarios and nanoterrorism where one country develops a nanobot and says, hey, give us this or we'll wipe out the earth.
[30:39.170 --> 30:45.110]  They recommend, as fast as we can, global information, global education about nanotechnology.
[30:45.930 --> 31:01.070]  And although there are probably some conspiracy theories about the governments controlling certain discoveries from being released to the public, I just got my next job is educating middle school and elementary students about nanotechnology.
[31:01.530 --> 31:02.850]  And I work for a college.
[31:03.010 --> 31:07.470]  So my work performance can't be immediately evaluated because I'm not going to know if they're going to enroll.
[31:07.770 --> 31:12.190]  So I'm promoting the technology rather than the program when I go out and speak.
[31:14.410 --> 31:18.370]  So Foresight has made the recommendation that we get this word out and say, this is what it is.
[31:18.510 --> 31:22.070]  You know, we're going to have to have like an open source kind of attitude to the technology.
[31:22.750 --> 31:23.250]  Thank you.
[31:25.070 --> 31:29.070]  From what I've seen, new technology is either neither bad nor good.
[31:29.090 --> 31:30.510]  It depends on how you apply it.
[31:32.030 --> 31:46.650]  What's to stop people from using this new technology, this nanotech, not necessarily just regular people, governments, whoever, from replicating, I don't know, new tanks, new itty-bitty tanks and going off and killing things?
[31:47.250 --> 31:47.690]  Yeah.
[31:49.170 --> 32:07.510]  Another non-nano recent discovery, February of 2001, they developed, or they discovered, that when you take a silicon wafer and coat it in glidium nitride, the scientists then tried to cut it using a diamond scribe and it blew up in his face, with about the same force as a pop gun.
[32:07.510 --> 32:15.390]  There is video out there of a display of this where they figured out how to pass an electrical current through it and pop it that way.
[32:15.530 --> 32:17.870]  It's exploding silicon or nanorockets.
[32:18.770 --> 32:23.510]  Just some crazy weird stuff that we can do with silicon.
[32:24.590 --> 32:33.130]  Now, who's going to stop somebody from designing a national ID system, but not telling you that they put a little spot of this in there?
[32:33.130 --> 32:40.670]  And an explosion of that could potentially be used to take down people who are, you know...
[32:40.670 --> 32:42.370]  Yeah, questionable.
[32:44.290 --> 32:47.070]  So what's going to stop people?
[32:47.330 --> 32:50.110]  Foresight has just made the recommendation that we educate.
[32:51.330 --> 32:54.430]  Maybe if we tell everybody, you know, hey, don't do this, maybe they won't.
[32:55.250 --> 32:59.650]  Maybe if we give people the technology, we can bring third world countries up to speed.
[32:59.830 --> 33:03.090]  Not give them money in cars, give them food.
[33:03.270 --> 33:04.990]  Use the assemblers to build food.
[33:05.150 --> 33:08.590]  Use the technology to try and make the world a better place.
[33:09.350 --> 33:13.950]  I'm a bit of a, you know, high-thinking utopiest here.
[33:14.170 --> 33:18.330]  But nanotechnology is going to revolutionize the way humans live.
[33:18.910 --> 33:19.550]  Thank you.
[33:20.090 --> 33:24.670]  On a more practical note, how far off do you think we are from building...
[33:24.670 --> 33:34.070]  What are the main difficulties in building, say, a sub-$1,000 amateur atomic force microscope?
[33:34.070 --> 33:38.670]  Oh, how long until this technology might make it into our bedrooms and garages?
[33:38.890 --> 33:43.050]  Or if I'm trying to put one in my living room now, what's the biggest loophole?
[33:43.170 --> 33:46.550]  What's the hardest part of that development that I'm going to come across?
[33:47.270 --> 33:52.070]  Well, you'll need a clean room, you'll need vacuum systems, you'll need immense power...
[33:52.750 --> 33:53.350]  A lot of electricity.
[33:53.470 --> 33:54.090]  ...source, yeah.
[33:54.990 --> 33:56.330]  Yeah, and a load of money.
[33:56.930 --> 33:58.050]  But it's doable.
[34:00.150 --> 34:06.210]  No, not unless you're one of those millionaire tycoons you've got nothing better to do than to do something like that.
[34:06.950 --> 34:10.070]  Your best option is to do somebody else's.
[34:11.130 --> 34:15.990]  And you might have to custom order one, which could take years to get through.
[34:16.150 --> 34:19.030]  And I really don't think the government would allow you to get away from that.
[34:19.030 --> 34:20.590]  Well, that's exactly what I'm trying to get around.
[34:21.150 --> 34:27.470]  Do you think that there's a way to start to approach those things through independent research?
[34:27.470 --> 34:34.630]  Do you think that's even an open possibility or does even the social calamity of it make it thoroughly unattractive on top of that?
[34:34.850 --> 34:41.550]  If you want to do your own personal research on this and you get to a point where you think you got something, go to somebody.
[34:41.550 --> 34:47.450]  Don't go to question people like somebody at nano.gov.
[34:47.610 --> 34:50.290]  Go to the actual scientists working the piece of equipment.
[34:50.790 --> 34:53.550]  Try and talk to them personally and be like, hey, this is my idea.
[34:53.750 --> 34:55.470]  Because it might help out his idea.
[34:56.130 --> 34:59.530]  And we're building a toolbox of nano devices.
[34:59.770 --> 35:06.190]  We've got molecular wheels developed by Jim Jeske at IBM also.
[35:06.410 --> 35:09.990]  Don Igler and Barb Garrison.
[35:10.150 --> 35:12.590]  I'm just throwing names out there for people that want to look this up.
[35:12.810 --> 35:13.070]  Fritz?
[35:14.070 --> 35:17.570]  I'm just sort of coming from the other end, which is to say that, like, you're right.
[35:17.770 --> 35:21.290]  The technology is huge and expensive and it's going to really revolutionize the world.
[35:21.290 --> 35:29.410]  And I'm as much concerned with it being locked down in larger, by the government, exclusive control and exclusive corporate control.
[35:29.650 --> 35:33.890]  To me, I see that nanotech is like the assembler nightmare of everybody having their own.
[35:34.370 --> 35:35.830]  It isn't so much of a nightmare.
[35:36.730 --> 35:39.190]  It's as much a utopia as it is a dystopia.
[35:39.550 --> 35:46.010]  So I think that nanotechnology is definitely a place where amateurism should be developed and fostered.
[35:46.010 --> 35:54.910]  Because as much chaos as it could bring, you know, it's just as bad to have such a powerful thing totally divorced from democracy.
[35:55.170 --> 35:59.650]  Yeah, we definitely can't let government control the development of this technology.
[35:59.990 --> 36:03.430]  We have to have people figuring out stuff on their own.
[36:03.450 --> 36:06.090]  Because if we don't figure it out, the government's not going to tell us.
[36:07.570 --> 36:11.830]  So we have to have people doing their own research and bringing it to the law.
[36:11.830 --> 36:13.950]  Maybe even building atomic force microscopes in their ring room.
[36:13.950 --> 36:17.710]  Yeah, if maybe in the next 30 years that might be a possibility.
[36:18.690 --> 36:22.430]  To maybe get one from a university that isn't using it anymore.
[36:26.530 --> 36:29.670]  Well, no, it's a different physical device.
[36:31.130 --> 36:33.370]  Yeah, an electron microscope would be nice.
[36:33.590 --> 36:35.550]  I think you can pick one up for like $200,000.
[36:35.850 --> 36:38.850]  I'm sure you could probably get one cheaper if you, you know, look around.
[36:38.850 --> 36:39.330]  eBay.
[36:39.630 --> 36:40.390]  Yeah, eBay.
[36:42.570 --> 36:46.210]  So, yeah, an electron microscope would allow you to be able to see a little bit what's going on.
[36:46.290 --> 36:47.330]  Get you a better understanding.
[36:47.930 --> 36:54.130]  And that you could probably build and develop in maybe even one or two rooms.
[36:55.830 --> 36:56.330]  Thank you.
[36:56.430 --> 36:57.250]  I love your talk.
[36:57.910 --> 36:58.410]  Thank you.
[36:59.510 --> 37:00.010]  Okay.
[37:00.190 --> 37:01.250]  You said Penn State.
[37:01.550 --> 37:03.650]  Do you know if they are offering any of the courses?
[37:03.830 --> 37:04.850]  Have Penn State done more?
[37:07.450 --> 37:08.490]  Well, the way...
[37:09.230 --> 37:17.090]  I don't really want to promote the program because that's a little blurred line between my job and my fun is coming here.
[37:17.090 --> 37:26.450]  So, what I can tell you is Penn State developed this nanotechnology idea and decided that they're going to sort of lease it out.
[37:26.570 --> 37:36.830]  I won't say lease it out, but allow people from community college to take three semesters at where they're at and then transfer into Penn State for this experience, one semester of classes.
[37:37.170 --> 37:41.450]  Penn State's satellite campuses probably will get you on the right track.
[37:41.710 --> 37:43.270]  I should check with more of that.
[37:43.270 --> 37:43.970]  Yeah.
[37:44.450 --> 37:44.810]  I would...
[37:44.810 --> 37:45.230]  Do they...
[37:45.230 --> 37:46.630]  I'm not familiar with that campus.
[37:46.790 --> 37:49.050]  Do they have technology-based classes like electronics and stuff?
[37:49.270 --> 37:50.250]  That's a good question.
[37:50.390 --> 37:50.870]  I don't know.
[37:50.870 --> 37:52.190]  I don't know too much about them.
[37:52.250 --> 37:57.590]  I know University of Scranton-Merrywood and Lackawong Junior College, but I don't know too much about Penn State.
[37:58.630 --> 37:58.910]  Okay.
[37:59.410 --> 38:00.030]  You had a comment?
[38:00.090 --> 38:06.830]  The College of New York has a couple of classes that they've started offering as well as University of Rochester has some stuff dealing with...
[38:06.830 --> 38:11.550]  I mean, my roommate is taking the stuff, working with polymers and stuff like that.
[38:11.550 --> 38:15.090]  And they're starting to move into nano here locally in the city as well.
[38:15.430 --> 38:15.550]  Yeah.
[38:15.730 --> 38:25.390]  They are starting to develop other courses in nanotechnology, but I believe to date Penn State is the only one that will offer you the... well, your home school, but through Penn State.
[38:25.850 --> 38:28.630]  It's the only college that will offer you an actual degree in this, a two-year degree.
[38:28.630 --> 38:31.470]  That's your last time about getting your own microscope.
[38:32.170 --> 38:35.950]  eBay's got a cam scan, scanning electron microscope for $4,799.
[38:36.850 --> 38:38.070]  Is there a reserve on that?
[38:38.570 --> 38:39.030]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[38:39.650 --> 38:40.450]  That's what we did.
[38:40.890 --> 38:42.330]  Put me down.
[38:42.810 --> 38:44.170]  It's only $4,300.
[38:44.850 --> 38:46.630]  Does it save the zoom?
[38:48.330 --> 38:48.910]  How many acts?
[38:50.770 --> 38:52.230]  We can get to that later.
[38:52.310 --> 38:52.750]  You had a question?
[38:52.750 --> 38:54.070]  From your familiarity...
[38:54.070 --> 38:55.950]  $100 a piece, we can act right now.
[38:57.270 --> 38:59.110]  Put it in my house, I'm down.
[39:00.190 --> 39:00.330]  Okay.
[39:00.530 --> 39:10.230]  From your familiarity with micromachines, I'm curious about your speculations on what the state of the art today is with things like what's the smallest video camera that they could build.
[39:10.530 --> 39:18.070]  I've seen articles on tiny gears and tiny motors, speculations about robot ants and things like that.
[39:18.430 --> 39:23.450]  What would the parameters of these tiny robots be right now?
[39:23.590 --> 39:32.510]  I mean, could they have a robot wasp that could get bin laden or, you know, and or, you know, if they wanted to surveillance on someone, do you have to worry about things crawling under your door?
[39:32.850 --> 39:33.170]  Okay.
[39:33.690 --> 39:35.730]  No, the technology is definitely getting smaller.
[39:35.890 --> 39:39.690]  To be able to actually machine metal pieces is becoming easier.
[39:40.670 --> 39:49.590]  I think I read an article about the use of, like, maybe a two-foot large submarine that checked out the coast of Iraq before we invaded.
[39:51.950 --> 39:59.610]  So, you know, I really didn't have much idea of these spy planes flying around the world that were starting to crash because the government didn't tell us about them.
[39:59.690 --> 40:00.630]  I didn't really know about them.
[40:02.190 --> 40:05.230]  So, yeah, of course there could be something out there that we don't know about.
[40:05.330 --> 40:06.070]  They're not telling us.
[40:06.390 --> 40:11.870]  Using nanotechnology per se, not really because they're still trying to develop, you know, products for that.
[40:12.130 --> 40:14.230]  Using MEMS, possibility.
[40:14.230 --> 40:24.050]  Some devices that use MEMS now, the accelerometer in the car as a little paddle that can change its capacitance value based on the deceleration rate.
[40:26.010 --> 40:32.810]  Food smellers, be able to tell the quality of a food, be able to tell if a certain food has started to decompose.
[40:34.450 --> 40:36.970]  And optical networking components.
[40:37.430 --> 40:45.690]  I believe one of the first indications that nanotechnology is coming is more transparent optical networks.
[40:45.950 --> 40:48.950]  Optical switches and devices like that.
[40:49.170 --> 40:50.250]  Where we're making MEMS...
[40:50.250 --> 40:54.530]  As we develop the MEMS technology, nanotechnology is going to follow right behind it.
[40:54.530 --> 40:56.950]  So I'm kind of waiting for MEMS to really break loose.
[40:57.250 --> 41:00.170]  And then that's when, uh, nano will be in the spotlight.
[41:00.990 --> 41:05.430]  Um, so, nano thing, or, uh, MEMS devices that we've built.
[41:05.710 --> 41:10.510]  Uh, small, maybe 200 nanometer wide, uh, mirrors that can reflect light.
[41:11.370 --> 41:15.670]  Um, there's a device, it's about the size of a quarter.
[41:16.150 --> 41:23.110]  And, uh, it has, uh, an array of channels on it where they do reactions with, um, with explosives.
[41:23.650 --> 41:30.950]  And it can be used on satellites in outer space to correct its orbit by fractions of, of a, of a meter.
[41:31.170 --> 41:32.370]  You know, maybe a micrometer.
[41:33.190 --> 41:35.990]  Uh, so, devices like that are being built.
[41:36.350 --> 41:44.030]  Uh, I believe that specific, uh, exploding chip on the, on the rocket thing that was, uh, or on the, um, on the satellites.
[41:44.030 --> 41:46.550]  I believe that was 98 when they developed that.
[41:47.130 --> 41:48.770]  Uh, not just the laboratory thing.
[41:48.950 --> 41:53.230]  They actually built a chip with leads and, and maybe some accompanying electronics to make it function.
[41:53.910 --> 41:59.310]  Um, some, some crazy facts about the way things have started out getting smaller.
[41:59.730 --> 42:07.590]  Um, everybody remembers or knows of 1969 when we had sent, uh, men to the moon and brought them back.
[42:08.030 --> 42:10.490]  Um, we're gonna assume that really happened.
[42:10.490 --> 42:15.310]  Uh, but all the equipment in, uh, quote, Houston.
[42:16.010 --> 42:19.770]  Um, all that computer equipment, networked and clustered and working together.
[42:20.590 --> 42:24.730]  Um, your Furby, uh, Furby has more computing power than that.
[42:25.410 --> 42:31.730]  So, uh, I'm sorry, a, uh, a Sony PlayStation, uh, has more computer power, computing power than that.
[42:32.470 --> 42:37.690]  And, uh, a Furby has more computing power than a lunar module that landed on the, on the surface.
[42:37.690 --> 42:42.510]  Um, people, uh, people knock Furby's cause they're annoying little devil toys.
[42:42.770 --> 42:45.910]  But, uh, uh, uh, they have four microprocessors in them.
[42:46.090 --> 42:49.290]  They're not, they're not really a toy when it comes to technology.
[42:49.490 --> 42:51.850]  They're, they're a pretty, uh, ingenious piece of work.
[42:52.530 --> 42:55.810]  Um, any other questions about the, the technology?
[42:56.070 --> 42:58.470]  Any, people have any concerns that they want a voice?
[42:58.790 --> 43:05.070]  Uh, this is the first time I've ever given a presentation to non-high school students.
[43:05.070 --> 43:12.430]  And when I do give it to, to, uh, high school students, they, they just want to know how much money they can make with a degree like this.
[43:12.730 --> 43:16.350]  And, uh, so I, I guess I could say something about that.
[43:16.610 --> 43:19.990]  Uh, before I graduated, I had about seven job offers.
[43:20.210 --> 43:27.090]  Uh, ranging, uh, from Intel, uh, Harris, uh, Fairchild, stuff like that.
[43:27.090 --> 43:31.510]  Uh, from, from like 25,000 up to 50,000 to start with a two year degree.
[43:32.350 --> 43:40.250]  Um, so there's, if, if you're looking to make money off of this, there, there's, uh, definitely a, uh, career ability here.
[43:41.250 --> 43:43.430]  Um, any other questions?
[43:43.750 --> 43:45.630]  Maybe, uh, sure.
[43:47.810 --> 43:52.430]  What about the fears of this technology falling into the hands of terrorists of the future?
[43:53.150 --> 43:58.670]  Um, just like some technology is now available that many of the things in the past were in the development of the government.
[43:58.950 --> 44:11.790]  Yeah, we, we had, um, covered that a little bit earlier, but the fear of this technology falling into the hands of, of, um, rogue nations and, and people with less than, less than, uh, good intentions.
[44:12.390 --> 44:18.570]  Um, we, I guess, it, it starts to hit a, um, uh, philosophic view.
[44:18.770 --> 44:23.230]  If we tell everybody about nanotechnology, is, is that gonna make it safe for us?
[44:23.310 --> 44:26.630]  Is that gonna make, you know, we, are we gonna be able to trust our, our fellow man?
[44:27.350 --> 44:31.050]  And, um, it, I don't know, there, it's, it's really complicated.
[44:31.070 --> 44:37.850]  And it, it branches out of technology and starts to branch into, uh, sociology, which I only had one class and I got a C in it.
[44:37.850 --> 44:43.050]  But, uh, um, so, I don't know, it's, it's weird.
[44:43.190 --> 44:58.590]  Another, another question that I thought of myself while I was at the event here, uh, being all kinds of nervous waiting for my presentation is, uh, assume we have a, a, a nano-assembler that can assemble carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen atoms, and it assembles a human brain,
[44:58.910 --> 45:00.310]  which is nothing more than atoms.
[45:00.310 --> 45:02.530]  Nerve cells, uh, neural pathways, and everything.
[45:02.850 --> 45:03.790]  Does that make it a brain?
[45:03.890 --> 45:04.450]  Can it think?
[45:05.190 --> 45:05.430]  You know?
[45:05.670 --> 45:08.690]  So, this is a little bit of a question I haven't been able to answer myself.
[45:09.570 --> 45:12.410]  I mean, if, that's open for discussion if people want to go up and talk about that.
[45:12.810 --> 45:14.090]  He turned his paper.
[45:14.430 --> 45:15.490]  Turn his paper, okay.
[45:15.570 --> 45:18.130]  I haven't read much of his work yet, so I'll have to get to that.
[45:18.390 --> 45:22.730]  Have you gone to any of the foresight conferences, and, uh, how was that?
[45:22.930 --> 45:25.630]  Or do you know of other conferences that are worth attending in this field?
[45:26.370 --> 45:34.110]  Um, I don't, I haven't been to any, and I don't really know of any offhand, but I know nano.gov's got a couple listings of nanotechnology-related conferences.
[45:34.870 --> 45:40.710]  Uh, I'm 22 with a job at a community college, so traveling expenses are nil.
[45:41.110 --> 45:46.750]  Uh, they won't let me go anywhere if it's more than $300, and some of these conventions might cost $6,000.
[45:47.290 --> 45:50.250]  So, uh, sadly, I don't get to go.
[45:51.290 --> 45:51.870]  Thank you.
[45:51.870 --> 46:01.730]  Are we going to have, like, hardware-less hardware, like, um, satellites in outer space will just be made of atoms and, you know, stuff like that?
[46:02.510 --> 46:07.070]  Um, that sort of goes back to the other question about the camera that I wanted to make a mention.
[46:07.390 --> 46:14.850]  Um, uh, does every, does anybody know what a flat screen, a flat panel, uh, monitor is made out of the technology?
[46:14.850 --> 46:17.070]  It's called a TFT thin film transistor.
[46:17.770 --> 46:26.070]  Um, you might, might, might or might not be aware of, but, uh, uh, that same technology is, uh, 100% reversible.
[46:26.490 --> 46:30.210]  A flat screen monitor can be used as a camera, given the right electronics behind it.
[46:30.890 --> 46:31.870]  Um, so...
[46:31.870 --> 46:32.410]  So...
[46:33.250 --> 46:35.070]  Yeah, there's a...
[46:35.070 --> 46:36.450]  I, I don't...
[46:44.590 --> 46:59.910]  Yeah, um, I, I talked to, I talked to a PhD at, at Penn State about how far away are we from realizing anything in, in Drexler's book, and he, uh, pointed me to the fact that Drexler, you know, might be smoking something.
[47:01.690 --> 47:04.830]  That's, I, I wanted to ask you about the nanotech.
[47:05.090 --> 47:07.070]  What, what, what people are figuring out in nanotech now?
[47:07.590 --> 47:12.950]  How, how much is it practically, how much is it practically helping them to, to devise new...
[47:13.350 --> 47:18.810]  Again, my roommate works with a lot of polymers, and, and dealing with, like, materials engineering and, and stuff like that.
[47:18.910 --> 47:25.370]  And it seems to me that a lot of what's going on in nanotech now is, well, you might not be able to build the tiny robots that you're shooting for.
[47:25.370 --> 47:31.790]  A lot of the techniques that are being developed to do that are helping us build extremely complicated, larger molecules now.
[47:32.310 --> 47:37.390]  I, I, I mean, even if you can't, it seems like we're going to be able to build some incredible stuff.
[47:37.710 --> 47:40.810]  Biotech is going to be completely revolution, revolutionized by this.
[47:40.950 --> 47:55.230]  I know I saw in Popular Science, I think, a few months ago, one of the nanotech things we're working on is being able to put, uh, small rings inside your veins that analyze your cells as they go past and inject drugs specifically into, to infected cells.
[47:56.170 --> 48:04.910]  I mean, it seems like it's where, like, those things are, well, larger than nanoscale seems like they're probably benefiting greatly from the technology and the development.
[48:05.450 --> 48:16.530]  Yeah, definitely, um, when nanotechnology becomes more of a reality, um, devices that aren't nano-sized will, uh, will be, uh, more better because of nanotechnology.
[48:17.370 --> 48:18.730]  Being able to build a ring.
[48:18.850 --> 48:27.850]  Do you think there's practical ways in which the, the, the research that's being done now is helping us to, to, to develop those medium, those one order higher scale devices?
[48:28.330 --> 48:28.570]  Definitely.
[48:29.030 --> 48:33.730]  Um, what, do you make any, do you have any ideas about what we're going to see come emerge from that in the short term?
[48:34.210 --> 48:44.090]  Uh, needles for people who have to have injections, uh, the needles that are, uh, so small that they can go in between nerve cells and cause no pain.
[48:44.090 --> 48:47.890]  Um, but no, these are real needles.
[48:48.030 --> 48:50.710]  The problem that they're having with them is that they break.
[48:50.890 --> 48:53.610]  Uh, they're made out of silicon and they break it sometimes, so.
[48:54.410 --> 49:02.810]  And then once you have a needle that small, you, um, you're working with forces like capillary action and, uh, then you have to have super concentrated drugs.
[49:02.810 --> 49:05.350]  And so everything's got to come together at the same time.
[49:05.490 --> 49:11.050]  But yeah, there are needles being developed, um, uh, band-aids again with sensors that can detect infections.
[49:11.490 --> 49:11.510]  Um.
[49:11.950 --> 49:14.390]  What about the manufacturing processes of those?
[49:15.570 --> 49:21.470]  Like, how much, I mean, that's what it seems like to me, the, the, the, the crux of the manufacturing process as well.
[49:21.550 --> 49:24.790]  But what has been the last literally built in, in, in flood space?
[49:24.990 --> 49:37.490]  And it seems to me, like, when delaying new fields across silicon happening and exploding and stuff like that, like, these, these big-range nanotechs are going to explode into a large number of, like, not just mechanical projects, like, small cameras and stuff like that,
[49:37.610 --> 49:37.850]  but...
[49:42.430 --> 49:49.150]  Yeah, that's, that's, that's the, one of the things in Unbound in the future, he goes off and just starts explaining all these crazy things.
[49:49.270 --> 50:01.450]  He's got chapters on medicine, chapters on, uh, transportation, um, even teleportation, uh, assembling something else by transmitting its data through, through space.
[50:01.810 --> 50:04.050]  Um, but that's, that's out there.
[50:04.050 --> 50:09.210]  But, it's also, on somebody's mind, standing in front of a piece of equipment, doing something.
[50:09.390 --> 50:10.230]  He's thinking about this.
[50:10.390 --> 50:13.050]  Uh, a scientist out there is thinking about this and working on it.
[50:13.610 --> 50:15.490]  And, uh, so it's not just in Star Trek anymore.
[50:15.870 --> 50:16.830]  It's starting to become real.
[50:17.330 --> 50:18.950]  It's not just between the credits now.
[50:19.170 --> 50:21.510]  It's the stuff that's not quite accessible in that realm.
[50:21.750 --> 50:24.130]  We're still able to use that information to the million things.
[50:24.410 --> 50:24.950]  I'm sorry, I'm just joking.
[50:24.950 --> 50:25.950]  Thank you.
[50:26.990 --> 50:27.310]  Thank you.
[50:27.310 --> 50:33.090]  Okay, this is going to be a blatant plug, yet again, because, well, I'm a subscriber, I'm obviously biased.
[50:33.290 --> 50:40.630]  Nature Publishing Group, they publish about 60 magazines, uh, New England, Journal of Medicine, Nature, etc.
[50:40.630 --> 50:43.710]  And, uh, they publish specialty magazines as well.
[50:43.870 --> 50:51.410]  And, uh, if you go to www.nature.com, you'll see a big ad amongst other things for the Nature Materials.
[50:51.470 --> 50:53.710]  A new magazine, they're about to launch in September.
[50:54.110 --> 51:08.550]  However, the interesting bit for you would be that, if you actually bother to fill out a questionnaire, give up some information which might or might not be valid, uh, you can get a free login to their website, which will give you, until the end of this month,
[51:08.550 --> 51:10.970]  they're doing an introduction for this magazine.
[51:11.270 --> 51:22.990]  So, a bunch of articles on, uh, uh, on the nanotechnology, on basic, on the materials, on a lot of cutting-edge research is available right there.
[51:23.250 --> 51:28.170]  So, you'll literally have two bigs right now to go and download, read, etc.
[51:29.950 --> 51:31.530]  They... well, I'm biased.
[51:31.670 --> 51:32.850]  I have a subscription to Nature.
[51:33.010 --> 51:33.730]  I think they're wonderful.
[51:33.910 --> 51:34.780]  They have a lot of information.
[51:34.780 --> 51:41.500]  They now started publishing, uh, preprints prior to actual publication on their website.
[51:42.340 --> 51:48.200]  ArcSive.org has tons of information and all sorts of... all sorts of cutting-edge research.
[51:48.540 --> 51:50.480]  So, I mean, Google is shallow.
[51:50.680 --> 51:53.900]  You were completely... you were mentioning that you cannot find information in Google.
[51:54.360 --> 51:56.840]  Uh, information is out there.
[51:56.960 --> 51:58.260]  You just need to know where to find it.
[51:58.360 --> 52:01.680]  And Google is just the lowest common denominator at this point.
[52:04.680 --> 52:05.080]  Science...
[52:05.080 --> 52:05.460]  Yes.
[52:05.940 --> 52:11.160]  Uh, Scientific American, the September 2001 issue, is an entire issue devoted to Nanofab.
[52:11.360 --> 52:13.260]  Um, I haven't been able to pick up a copy of that yet.
[52:13.660 --> 52:14.640]  But, uh, I hear it.
[52:14.740 --> 52:15.720]  It's pretty... it's pretty good.
[52:16.800 --> 52:22.820]  Well, Scientific American is a little bit lowest common denominator for a Koch potato, but, uh...
[52:22.820 --> 52:23.220]  But, um...
[52:23.220 --> 52:23.840]  Science...
[52:25.180 --> 52:28.180]  That's... that's one thing that we have to constantly be aware of.
[52:28.360 --> 52:33.620]  Um, we're gonna have people who are... who are gonna research this, but not want to get into the technical aspect of it.
[52:33.980 --> 52:37.740]  So, they... they... they're gonna propose ideas like apocalyptic scenarios.
[52:37.880 --> 52:42.300]  We have to keep our heads together and say, you know, let's... let's actually worry about doing this.
[52:42.520 --> 52:47.020]  And... and also keep that same group of people, let's worry about the consequences of doing this.
[52:47.540 --> 52:48.840]  Can't let one over weigh the other.
[52:50.680 --> 52:51.120]  Yeah.
[52:52.500 --> 52:53.080]  Thank you.
[52:54.200 --> 52:58.800]  I have the feeling that they didn't cover this in your curriculum, but I'll ask anyway.
[52:59.420 --> 53:02.320]  Um, what's... what's its relationship to computers?
[53:02.780 --> 53:04.800]  What sort of programming languages do they use?
[53:04.920 --> 53:07.080]  Did you study cellular automata, for instance?
[53:08.740 --> 53:09.220]  Um...
[53:09.220 --> 53:09.520]  Um...
[53:09.520 --> 53:13.000]  As far as programming, like, uh, DNA kind of programming, we...
[53:13.000 --> 53:14.140]  You know, like that...
[53:14.140 --> 53:20.560]  What is... what is there in terms of software, um, for simulating this stuff, since it's not so easy to physically do it?
[53:20.560 --> 53:25.780]  Um, like... yeah, like I said, I'd heard about, uh, software that'll simulate atomic force microscope.
[53:26.020 --> 53:29.220]  I did get to use software, and I've been trying to find the name of it, and I can't.
[53:29.340 --> 53:30.800]  Uh, it was... it was for Unix though.
[53:32.440 --> 53:32.800]  Um...
[53:32.800 --> 53:41.980]  It simulated ion implantation and, uh, other... other things like, uh, oxidation and stuff like that, where you build nanometer thick films on... on top of substrates.
[53:42.200 --> 53:43.880]  But, uh, the software is out there.
[53:44.000 --> 53:47.500]  Anybody with, with, uh, enough time could probably dig it up and find it.
[53:47.500 --> 53:51.160]  And, uh, so, what was the original question answering?
[53:51.500 --> 54:03.640]  Well, it was just asking about software in general, what programming languages are used, what sort of environment is used, and, uh, what the state of software simulation is.
[54:03.900 --> 54:09.720]  Two hours ago we just heard the whole stuff about GNU Radio, and, uh, you know...
[54:09.720 --> 54:10.240]  Yeah.
[54:10.480 --> 54:11.260]  I'm finished.
[54:11.260 --> 54:11.740]  Yeah.
[54:12.440 --> 54:23.380]  So, so I was asking about, uh, simulators, and it occurred to me that bottom-up, uh, working things like cellular automata, a game of life, things like that would, would, would be a natural match.
[54:23.600 --> 54:23.940]  Yeah.
[54:24.200 --> 54:31.900]  Because it was, uh, only a two-year technology degree, and it had the word fabrication in the title, uh, they just wanted, they wanted tech, technicians.
[54:32.300 --> 54:35.400]  And, uh, they didn't really bother us too much with too many ethical problems.
[54:35.400 --> 54:38.260]  Uh, anything ethical I've had to discover on my own.
[54:38.740 --> 54:42.280]  Um, so, there is software out there.
[54:42.420 --> 54:46.260]  It might not be free, it might not even be available, but it's out there, and you've got to find it.
[54:46.560 --> 54:52.420]  Um, and you've got to use it, and take your research and your, your discoveries to people who can, who can do something with it.
[54:53.400 --> 54:55.140]  Uh, we've got four minutes.
[54:55.820 --> 55:00.060]  Um, anybody want to voice any concerns, any questions, comments?
[55:00.920 --> 55:02.460]  It's, uh, it's been great.
[55:02.660 --> 55:05.200]  Uh, it's been great today, this presentation, the last couple days.
[55:05.420 --> 55:08.540]  I want to thank H2K2 for all their help and, uh, 2600.
[55:09.300 --> 55:15.200]  Um, maybe you guys might see me around more often if, if this becomes a, uh, habit of mine to come out and give presentations.
[55:15.980 --> 55:18.920]  Um, no, I have no money.
[55:19.600 --> 55:29.400]  But, uh, um, if you want to get in contact with me, um, I don't know, cipz at yahoo.com.
[55:29.960 --> 55:34.360]  Um, I was on the, uh, 2600 H2K mailing list.
[55:35.040 --> 55:38.980]  Uh, again, it's cipz at yahoo.com.
[55:39.760 --> 55:43.300]  Um, and I check that email, like, 58 times a day.
[55:43.600 --> 55:46.500]  So, uh, I'll respond to anybody who sends me an email.
[55:46.900 --> 55:48.520]  Uh, again, I only have a two-year degree.
[55:48.940 --> 55:52.660]  I've picked up the two-year degree in electronics and two-year degree in fiber optics along the way also.
[55:52.860 --> 55:55.420]  So, I'm kind of biased in that general area.
[55:55.420 --> 56:04.700]  And, um, if it's a question that I can't answer and I think you really should get an answer to, I can forward it to, uh, people at Penn State with PhDs that will gladly help you out.
[56:05.220 --> 56:17.140]  Uh, luckily, the people that are researching nano right now, Foresight has made the observation that the people who are researching nano right now are good people, are good scientists who, who want to do better for the world.
[56:17.860 --> 56:22.500]  So, thanks again for your time and, uh, had fun.
[56:23.000 --> 56:23.780]  Nervous respect.
[56:24.120 --> 56:24.520]  Thank you.