[00:00.000 --> 00:00.780] Wow. [00:03.560 --> 00:05.200] Thank you all for attending. [00:08.780 --> 00:10.160] Sorry, we're over time. [00:10.380 --> 00:22.880] I want to quickly thank the organizers, security, volunteers, everyone who's made hope a success for today and the two days to come. [00:24.280 --> 00:37.480] HOPE is particularly special to me, even the HackerCons, because it's where the whole community gets together to share a shared interest. [00:41.280 --> 00:42.540] Where are we? [00:46.670 --> 00:53.230] I want to discuss actual socializing as a blind person. [00:54.950 --> 01:00.090] Let me start off from when I was a kid. [01:00.410 --> 01:03.270] Sorry, Chef, we have to bring the microphone just a little bit closer. [01:03.410 --> 01:04.410] Can we move your braille over? [01:04.590 --> 01:04.890] Sure. [01:05.190 --> 01:06.470] And move the microphone right up the front. [01:07.070 --> 01:07.430] Authentication. [01:08.030 --> 01:08.770] Login panel. [01:08.950 --> 01:09.250] Window. [01:09.710 --> 01:10.070] User. [01:10.330 --> 01:10.650] Image. [01:11.130 --> 01:12.950] Two system dialogues displayed. [01:13.390 --> 01:14.170] Eight inches from the mic. [01:14.270 --> 01:15.250] Try speaking towards the mic. [01:15.890 --> 01:17.330] Yeah, can I... Yeah, people couldn't hear you. [01:19.170 --> 01:28.290] I want to talk about my childhood and issues socializing there because of being blind and because of my upbringing. [01:29.570 --> 01:35.610] I was brought up in a pretty strict religious background. [01:38.050 --> 01:46.130] And my parents were great in regards to allowing me to do things as a blind person, i.e. [01:46.250 --> 01:50.790] riding a bike, taking walks on my own, etc., etc. [01:50.790 --> 01:55.990] But when it came to socializing, there were religious issues with that. [01:56.650 --> 02:01.470] Unfortunately, that's basically how it was. [02:01.830 --> 02:07.590] And things didn't change until I was pretty much 18. [02:10.390 --> 02:15.050] But I used... When I was in school, I used to socialize with a bunch of people. [02:15.370 --> 02:19.490] I had one friend in particular who was absolutely amazing. [02:21.650 --> 02:26.070] But we used... We basically used to hang out together, do everything together. [02:27.330 --> 02:29.270] We used to mess around in class. [02:29.270 --> 02:37.450] We used to... Basically... Yeah, do a whole bunch of crazy school kid stuff. [02:38.810 --> 02:43.390] But my actual socializing with the real world... [02:43.390 --> 02:51.550] I also want to talk about accessing information through the real world because I didn't always have Internet access. [02:52.490 --> 02:57.370] So, my access to the real world, to the news, was radio. [02:57.790 --> 03:01.670] And radio is really important to me because I grew up with it. [03:01.770 --> 03:04.210] I used to listen to the radio 24-7. [03:05.410 --> 03:17.050] I don't know if we have any Brits here, but I used to listen to the BBC, Talk Sport, a whole bunch of music stations, a whole bunch of news stations like Five Live. [03:17.050 --> 03:21.610] But that was the way that I used to get my information. [03:26.310 --> 03:37.570] When I did have access to the Internet, which was mainly through youth clubs and school, I used to get my information that way when I used to go to the youth club. [03:38.190 --> 03:41.170] I used to sign on to MSN. [03:41.270 --> 03:42.970] Anyone remember MSN? [03:43.670 --> 03:44.230] Yeah! [03:44.770 --> 03:45.490] That's right! [03:47.990 --> 03:50.310] MSN was the best thing ever, wasn't it? [03:51.750 --> 03:54.350] One of the best instant messengers. [03:54.570 --> 03:55.810] Even better than Skype now. [03:56.950 --> 03:57.050] Yeah. [03:57.890 --> 04:00.230] And then Microsoft basically killed off Messenger. [04:00.930 --> 04:01.450] So... [04:03.450 --> 04:06.290] But I used to use Messenger a lot. [04:06.430 --> 04:08.010] I used to talk to friends on Messenger. [04:08.010 --> 04:11.430] I used to use Skype when it was not bought by Microsoft. [04:12.510 --> 04:14.390] To talk to friends online. [04:14.830 --> 04:15.670] I used... [04:15.670 --> 04:18.110] I made a lot of friends through the U.S. [04:19.410 --> 04:21.570] Mainly people from the blind community. [04:21.890 --> 04:23.010] But I did have... [04:23.010 --> 04:24.810] I did have quite a few sighted friends. [04:26.270 --> 04:28.710] For example, people in my area. [04:28.710 --> 04:30.770] When I used to go to the local park. [04:30.970 --> 04:35.690] I used to hang out with them as much as I could. [04:36.030 --> 04:38.090] And we used to talk on MSN when... [04:39.130 --> 04:41.690] Basically when we weren't hanging out. [04:43.250 --> 04:44.390] What do you have next? [04:46.830 --> 04:53.230] So basically, when I was 18, I'm skipping out a whole bunch of stories. [04:53.230 --> 04:59.130] Because I spent three years in South Africa in a religious school. [04:59.390 --> 05:02.770] I don't want to say anything bad about it. [05:02.770 --> 05:04.370] Because I think they're doing an amazing job. [05:04.810 --> 05:09.630] It was a school for the blind that specialized in Islamic studies. [05:10.710 --> 05:13.510] Because my family is Muslim and so am I. [05:13.510 --> 05:15.510] And that's where they wanted to send me. [05:16.030 --> 05:20.330] So basically, I dropped out of high school when I was 10. [05:20.350 --> 05:22.090] And I went to South Africa. [05:23.970 --> 05:26.070] I was 15 when I went. [05:27.470 --> 05:29.150] My parents went with me. [05:29.570 --> 05:33.550] And after 10 days, they left me there. [05:34.050 --> 05:38.850] And I spent three years there. [05:39.050 --> 05:41.390] I got to come home once every year. [05:41.390 --> 05:48.410] So basically, I was never exposed to other cultures when I was a kid. [05:48.610 --> 05:51.930] Other cultures, for example, the black community. [05:52.230 --> 05:54.470] For example, people from other countries. [05:54.790 --> 05:58.130] For example, Malaysia, Thailand, Congo. [06:00.250 --> 06:05.430] So I learned a lot about different communities through South Africa. [06:05.710 --> 06:08.410] That's one great thing that I did over there. [06:08.710 --> 06:25.570] Other than all the crap that happened, which I'm happy to discuss, not in a talk, but other than all of that, I'm really grateful that I got to have exposure to all these communities. [06:26.190 --> 06:28.690] And all these people from different countries. [06:31.710 --> 06:42.430] But other than that, I spent three years there and then I quit because I didn't want to do any more of the Islamic studying stuff. [06:42.430 --> 06:51.410] So, when I left there, basically a bunch of stuff happened and I moved out. [06:51.670 --> 06:53.350] I went to college. [06:53.350 --> 06:58.030] I did a BTEC level 2 IT certification. [06:59.930 --> 07:02.570] And that's when I came... [07:02.570 --> 07:05.570] Well, I knew about this community before. [07:05.790 --> 07:09.850] But that's when I really looked into the hacker communities. [07:10.950 --> 07:18.350] How I came across it was searching for everything and anything related to social engineering. [07:18.350 --> 07:23.030] Because social engineering is absolutely fascinating. [07:23.210 --> 07:23.670] Anyone agree? [07:24.570 --> 07:25.170] Yeah. [07:27.370 --> 07:30.770] So, I was searching about everything to do with social engineering. [07:31.070 --> 07:33.450] I came across talks by Emmanuel. [07:33.670 --> 07:35.290] Emmanuel is an excellent guy, by the way. [07:36.870 --> 07:41.970] Talks by Kevin Mitnick, who unfortunately I've never had the pleasure of meeting. [07:43.430 --> 07:49.930] But talks by him, talks by Chris Hadnagy, and I'll talk about that in a second as well. [07:52.850 --> 07:58.710] So, I came across DEFCON as the first con because obviously they do a lot of marketing. [07:58.990 --> 08:04.890] And it's the first result that comes through when you search for social engineering and hacking. [08:09.490 --> 08:12.630] So, that's basically what happened. [08:13.010 --> 08:22.230] So, I looked more into social engineering and I came across... [08:22.890 --> 08:28.470] And I want to discuss this because it has a lot to do with accessibility. [08:28.910 --> 08:32.390] I came across Chris Hadnagy's social engineering training. [08:33.210 --> 08:44.270] Now, before I say anything about my experience there, I just want to say that Chris is actually a great family guy. [08:44.470 --> 08:46.190] He really cares about his family. [08:46.370 --> 08:49.270] He really cares about his work. [08:52.610 --> 08:58.150] As a human being, I think he's probably an excellent guy. [08:59.270 --> 09:08.370] But I want to say my experience with his training and in regards to accessibility was not the best. [09:09.570 --> 09:10.250] Yeah. [09:11.190 --> 09:13.050] So, I... [09:13.050 --> 09:13.390] Okay. [09:13.870 --> 09:16.850] I wrote a huge blog post about this. [09:17.030 --> 09:18.410] I don't know if anyone's read it. [09:20.010 --> 09:28.230] But if you search for advanced practical social engineering review, they'll probably be the first results on Google. [09:32.090 --> 09:35.650] So, before I took the training, I was really excited. [09:35.650 --> 09:47.450] I was really excited because I thought I'd be learning a whole bunch of stuff about social engineering, fishing, fishing, social engineering in person. [09:48.310 --> 09:48.870] So... [09:48.870 --> 09:50.190] And I did learn a lot. [09:50.370 --> 09:54.150] But I emailed him first and I said, look, I'm totally blind. [09:55.250 --> 09:57.790] Will you be able to adapt the materials for me? [09:58.410 --> 10:01.810] Is this something you feel I can attend? [10:02.450 --> 10:05.090] And he said, wow, I've never had such a question. [10:05.650 --> 10:15.690] And he basically said, it's mainly slides on a screen, which I can understand because sighted people love slides. [10:17.510 --> 10:19.670] They love to look at things, right? [10:22.490 --> 10:24.590] So, that's what he said. [10:24.750 --> 10:37.530] And I said, okay, well, I'm happy to basically either scan the slides while you have them up or if you can provide materials which you show on the slides. [10:37.550 --> 10:43.270] He said, well, it's basically a bunch of videos and I'll be talking about certain things. [10:43.550 --> 10:46.570] But mainly I'll be showing you a bunch of videos. [10:48.470 --> 10:51.650] And I said, fine, I'm happy with that. [10:54.730 --> 10:58.830] He did provide material, but I never got it. [10:58.950 --> 11:00.350] And I'll discuss that later as well. [11:01.450 --> 11:09.450] But then I asked him by email, will you allow me to record this training? [11:10.190 --> 11:11.330] Can I record it? [11:11.430 --> 11:11.610] Can I record it? [11:11.610 --> 11:23.330] Because I have no other reference besides taking notes and it's easier for me to simply listen and have a recording rather than listen and take notes. [11:23.550 --> 11:28.970] He said, sorry, no, I cannot allow you to do an audio recording of the training. [11:29.130 --> 11:30.290] We have a company rule on that. [11:31.010 --> 11:35.430] I said, fine, okay, let me try this out. [11:35.570 --> 11:37.150] And I paid for the course. [11:38.190 --> 11:39.730] And I went to the training. [11:39.950 --> 11:42.810] Now, the first thing that happened, I met him. [11:46.050 --> 11:48.910] Unfortunately, he made me sit at the back of the class. [11:50.210 --> 11:52.710] I asked him, can I sit at the front of the class? [11:52.730 --> 11:54.590] It'll be easier for me to interact with you. [11:55.690 --> 12:06.510] He said, no, I'm going to have to ask you to sit at the back because he had an assistant, who I'm not going to name, but you probably know who it is anyway. [12:07.670 --> 12:13.450] He had an assistant who, he said, would explain everything on screen. [12:14.290 --> 12:17.470] And to be honest, he did a pretty good job. [12:17.650 --> 12:21.070] He did a pretty good job of explaining everything on screen. [12:21.310 --> 12:26.650] But there's really nothing quite like interacting with your instructor. [12:29.800 --> 12:39.860] And so I asked him again on, I believe it was Wednesday, because Tuesday he was discussing a really visual application. [12:40.520 --> 12:45.120] And it's visual, Maltego, I'm sure many of you have heard of it. [12:45.720 --> 12:55.140] So basically what Maltego is, it's basically an open source information gathering tool. [12:56.620 --> 13:04.140] This tool basically works through a graph, or a bunch of graphs. [13:04.300 --> 13:07.100] I've never seen it, obviously, so I have no idea. [13:07.100 --> 13:10.900] So this application is extremely visual. [13:11.120 --> 13:16.300] And before the training, I had the core syllabus, and I saw he was using Maltego. [13:16.520 --> 13:19.840] So I contacted the developers of Maltego. [13:19.980 --> 13:22.280] I said, hey, this is my situation. [13:23.120 --> 13:30.400] Is it possible we can work together to make this software accessible? [13:31.120 --> 13:38.640] And they told me it was full of a bunch of graphs and this kind of thing, and it works through Flash. [13:39.460 --> 13:46.040] And I said, okay, there's no way of making this app accessible because Flash is awful. [13:47.580 --> 13:48.560] I hate it. [13:48.560 --> 13:59.500] It works for screen readers sort of, like on the web, but it's absolutely terrible on software form. [13:59.600 --> 14:00.760] So I said, okay, leave this. [14:01.900 --> 14:07.480] And when I took the training, I said, okay, when he's doing Maltego stuff, I'll work with his assistant. [14:07.480 --> 14:13.040] And I will discuss things like Google Dawking. [14:14.400 --> 14:17.140] Now, that was pretty easy. [14:18.540 --> 14:29.880] Google Dawking is basically using search operators in Google to gather information just as Maltego would do. [14:31.380 --> 14:40.540] So basically, Maltego searches these networks, and these Google commands would do the exact same thing, but it would just take a longer time. [14:43.500 --> 14:50.080] Now, to be honest, as I said, a lot of the things in his training was really visual. [14:50.240 --> 14:56.540] For example, he focused a lot, a lot, a lot on micro-expressions. [14:57.600 --> 15:02.260] Now, I have no idea what your expressions are right now when I said the word micro-expressions. [15:04.620 --> 15:08.400] But he focused hours and hours on micro-expressions. [15:08.540 --> 15:10.100] Now, obviously, I cannot see that. [15:10.620 --> 15:37.080] And for his assistant to actually describe that to me was really hard for me to grasp, because obviously there's not really a way you can describe a facial expression like surprise, anger, lust, whatever other facial expressions people have. [15:37.360 --> 15:39.260] Like, I know what a smile is. [15:39.300 --> 15:42.560] I know when people nod and shake their head, it means yes or no. [15:45.160 --> 15:49.040] But there's absolutely no way I could understand that. [15:50.340 --> 15:58.240] So I really felt as though I could not get as much out of the training as I wanted to. [15:58.240 --> 16:06.160] So I told him, look, I didn't get the most out of the training. [16:07.500 --> 16:10.760] And he said, well, I did tell you that before. [16:11.700 --> 16:15.560] I said, well, you didn't discuss vishing much at all. [16:15.860 --> 16:17.860] And that was something I was really interested in. [16:17.860 --> 16:27.120] And he said, yeah, we're coming up with a new training, which is an advanced practical social engineering part two, which we'll discuss more of it. [16:27.480 --> 16:31.320] And I said, well, do you think I should take this? [16:31.840 --> 16:35.680] He said, probably not, because you might have the same experience. [16:38.220 --> 16:44.020] So I got back and I wrote my review, and it was an honest review of the training. [16:46.100 --> 16:48.760] It was quite professionally written. [16:49.700 --> 17:00.220] It was not slamming his company or him or his assistants or anything like that. [17:00.220 --> 17:04.180] It was just discussing the training and the issues I had with it. [17:04.720 --> 17:07.020] And he did not like the review. [17:07.260 --> 17:12.140] And he decided to block me off of all platforms, Twitter, Skype, all that kind of thing. [17:14.080 --> 17:20.700] So I assume he doesn't want me to get involved with any of his training anymore, which is fine. [17:22.300 --> 17:27.280] There's always other people who have much more to say about social engineering anyway. [17:30.160 --> 17:32.160] I wanted to show you a video. [17:32.480 --> 17:40.300] I wanted to quickly discuss accessibility in terms of wheelchair users. [17:40.300 --> 17:47.380] Now, I had a friend, had a friend, who is unfortunately no longer with us. [17:47.500 --> 17:48.820] She passed away in 2011. [17:49.320 --> 17:54.660] Who was a wheelchair user, but she was absolutely amazing. [17:54.900 --> 17:57.060] She was so damn independent. [17:57.060 --> 17:57.960] You wouldn't believe. [17:59.040 --> 18:07.560] She used to get around in her wheelchair like a sighted person would walk around. [18:07.560 --> 18:08.100] Literally. [18:08.680 --> 18:09.840] She used to... [18:09.840 --> 18:13.460] Well, she was sighted, but she had an electric wheelchair. [18:13.960 --> 18:17.980] And she used to socialize with everyone at my school. [18:18.200 --> 18:19.660] This was back in high school. [18:20.800 --> 18:22.380] And we stayed in touch. [18:23.240 --> 18:30.320] Basically, I want to show you a video of funding for technology in regards to this. [18:30.320 --> 18:41.740] Because, of course, technology for the blind, visually impaired, people who are disabled in general, is not cheap at all. [18:42.200 --> 18:44.100] It's extremely expensive. [18:44.360 --> 18:47.880] It goes into the thousands and thousands just to get some of these devices. [18:47.880 --> 18:55.640] This braille display I have, which I'm reading notes from, I'll discuss braille later as well. [18:58.580 --> 19:02.380] I can basically read all the notes that I wrote for this talk. [19:02.760 --> 19:06.640] This, itself, costs around $5,000, $6,000. [19:07.620 --> 19:09.000] Can you hold it up quickly? [19:09.340 --> 19:10.220] Yeah, absolutely. [19:10.220 --> 19:14.120] This is braille on an electronic braille display. [19:15.740 --> 19:18.680] So, basically, these are the braille keys. [19:18.880 --> 19:22.220] Dots, three, two, one. [19:22.840 --> 19:24.180] Sorry, that's backspace. [19:24.360 --> 19:25.000] Three, two, and one. [19:26.140 --> 19:28.600] And you've got four, five, and six. [19:29.500 --> 19:33.240] You've got the enter key, and you've got the backspace key, and then you've got the space key. [19:33.440 --> 19:36.240] And these are the braille routing buttons. [19:36.240 --> 19:39.680] So, basically, I can route my cursor anywhere like that. [19:39.920 --> 19:41.100] I have a cursor here. [19:43.320 --> 19:46.980] So, now you asked me to hold this up. [19:47.140 --> 19:48.360] I might as well discuss braille. [19:50.660 --> 19:52.240] Is it Bluetooth to your laptop? [19:52.440 --> 19:52.720] No. [19:53.380 --> 19:55.040] It's not even connected to my laptop. [19:55.200 --> 19:57.660] It has its own hardware and software built in. [19:58.720 --> 20:00.000] It has a hard disk. [20:00.580 --> 20:04.460] I think it's a flash disk inside there. [20:06.200 --> 20:11.980] It's currently receiving the notes through an SD card. [20:14.780 --> 20:16.120] How does braille work? [20:17.660 --> 20:22.200] Actually, I really think I should show you this video before we lose time. [20:22.200 --> 20:24.040] Because I really wanted to do this. [20:24.420 --> 20:26.000] So, let me bring it up. [20:26.160 --> 20:26.380] How much? [20:26.760 --> 20:27.960] Oh, 15 minutes. [20:28.560 --> 20:29.880] Don't put off too much stuff. [20:29.880 --> 20:30.600] Okay. [20:30.740 --> 20:31.520] Forget the video then. [20:34.120 --> 20:34.680] Okay. [20:34.820 --> 20:35.660] I'll show you the video. [20:37.560 --> 20:38.680] Let me... [20:40.380 --> 20:41.420] Unlock this thing. [20:41.420 --> 20:42.460] Finder. [20:43.460 --> 20:43.840] Hold. [20:44.760 --> 20:45.180] Drop. [20:45.600 --> 20:45.960] Open. [20:47.240 --> 20:47.460] Open. [20:47.460 --> 20:48.040] Armature MP. [20:48.320 --> 20:48.580] Menu. [20:49.060 --> 20:49.200] Share. [20:49.400 --> 20:49.680] Copy. [20:50.020 --> 20:50.120] Copy. [20:51.020 --> 20:51.560] New folder. [20:51.840 --> 20:52.580] New folder. [20:53.040 --> 20:53.280] Image. [20:53.640 --> 20:53.700] Open. [20:54.460 --> 20:54.840] Quick time. [20:55.140 --> 20:56.120] Armature MP4. [20:56.340 --> 20:56.540] Finder. [21:05.860 --> 21:06.380] Unchecked. [21:06.380 --> 21:06.940] Check box. [21:07.220 --> 21:09.660] So, today I'm at Beaufort House on the Kenilworth Road. [21:09.900 --> 21:11.080] And I'm joined by Claire Pidgeon. [21:11.120 --> 21:13.160] Claire, do you want to explain what you do? [21:13.640 --> 21:18.180] Yeah, I'm an occupational therapist working with children and young people in Coventry. [21:19.420 --> 21:27.080] And, basically, I sort of see children with physical disabilities helping them to be as independent as possible. [21:27.620 --> 21:45.900] So, it can range from working with children at schools, using equipment to help them to be able to access their education and the curriculum, to looking at their home environment and helping them to do everyday activities, including play or sort of helping them to be able to wash themselves, [21:46.120 --> 21:46.980] all sorts of things. [21:46.980 --> 21:49.860] Now, you've signed up for the Walk of Warwickshire, personally. [21:50.000 --> 21:52.620] It's going to be great to see you on June 26th, doing the 12 miles. [21:52.860 --> 21:54.180] I'll be half dead by then. [21:54.320 --> 21:56.080] So, I'll need some words of encouragement. [21:56.380 --> 22:02.960] But, you've seen firsthand how our charity, Snowball, helps young people across the city. [22:03.120 --> 22:04.040] Have you got any examples? [22:04.460 --> 22:04.900] Definitely. [22:06.120 --> 22:14.500] On a regular basis, we apply to Snowball to support and help us to provide equipment for children that I have on my caseload. [22:15.160 --> 22:30.200] Young people that need all sorts of specialist equipment that is really expensive and isn't possible to be able to provide on a daily basis by parents who are sort of, you know, don't have that money readily available. [22:30.200 --> 22:33.560] It can be something like a really specialist car seat. [22:33.940 --> 22:47.260] It can be a piece of computer that means that a young person will be able to access their sort of education and be able to communicate with their friends and peers. [22:47.260 --> 22:49.800] It's the things that we take for granted. [22:50.200 --> 22:50.420] Absolutely. [22:50.740 --> 22:51.020] Absolutely. [22:51.420 --> 23:00.640] Things that we don't even think about, that young people rely on to be able to sort of keep up with their friends and socialise like any other young person would. [23:01.200 --> 23:04.380] So, yeah, it's really, really important and we rely on it. [23:04.420 --> 23:06.760] So, we really need to support Snowball. [23:07.100 --> 23:07.580] That's good. [23:07.740 --> 23:11.760] And you've brought us to Beaufort House to meet somebody who you work with. [23:11.880 --> 23:12.340] Do you want to explain? [23:12.520 --> 23:12.680] Yeah. [23:12.840 --> 23:16.720] Ayesha is the young person I've worked with quite closely over a long period of time. [23:16.720 --> 23:21.440] And she's a very intelligent, independent young lady. [23:21.780 --> 23:30.740] And one of the sort of helpful aspects of Snowball is that they provided some funding for IESHA to be able to purchase a laptop. [23:31.520 --> 23:36.360] She's currently was at school and is looking to go to university in the future. [23:36.680 --> 23:46.640] So, she needs up-to-date IT equipment so that she can access the technology she relies on heavily. [23:47.380 --> 23:48.160] So, yeah. [23:48.380 --> 23:53.500] And because of her physical disability, an up-to-date piece of equipment is what she requires. [23:54.340 --> 23:55.520] Let's have a word with Ayesha. [23:55.800 --> 23:58.280] Thank you for letting us into your amazing bedroom. [23:58.400 --> 23:59.420] I see you're a fan of Twilight. [23:59.740 --> 24:00.100] Yeah. [24:00.100 --> 24:02.480] So, do you want to explain your situation? [24:02.860 --> 24:03.680] Why are you here? [24:03.760 --> 24:04.680] How long have you been here? [24:04.980 --> 24:05.420] Sure. [24:05.740 --> 24:11.300] I had surgery to correct a spinal curve about three years ago now. [24:11.520 --> 24:13.440] And there were some complications and stuff. [24:13.980 --> 24:17.340] So, I've got a lot less movement and strength than I did before. [24:18.340 --> 24:25.820] So, at the minute, I'm waiting for a care package to be set up so I can go live in the community in my own place and hopefully go to uni. [24:26.680 --> 24:29.440] So, I try to be as independent as I can. [24:29.440 --> 24:31.920] So, I'm here at the minute while I'm waiting for that. [24:31.920 --> 24:38.120] Now, explain how Snowball has helped you because I know it's recently helped you but also in the past. [24:38.700 --> 24:38.880] Yeah. [24:39.500 --> 24:45.220] About three years ago, I got a laptop funded through Snowball and that was really helpful. [24:45.420 --> 24:49.280] It allowed me to do a lot of school work that I wouldn't have been able to otherwise. [24:50.700 --> 24:57.340] I use a voice recognition program that allows me to kind of write essays and do homework and things. [24:57.340 --> 25:06.480] And that can come up pretty pricily and you need quite a quick, light computer to run that with. [25:06.640 --> 25:11.900] So, I got that through Snowball a few years ago and that's just broken. [25:12.200 --> 25:14.880] So, I've been using it a lot then. [25:14.980 --> 25:15.700] Yes, absolutely. [25:16.140 --> 25:18.640] So, I've just been funded for another one. [25:19.240 --> 25:23.520] And hopefully, with that, I'll be able to go back to college and move on to university. [25:23.520 --> 25:28.680] Because, like you said, it's a special version of a laptop because you've got limited use of your hands, haven't you? [25:28.860 --> 25:29.640] Yeah, that's right. [25:29.820 --> 25:36.520] So, I need a special mouse that doesn't require a lot of movement and not a lot of strength to press the buttons and things like that. [25:36.820 --> 25:41.400] So, these things that Snowball are doing are hopefully going to help you get on in life. [25:41.400 --> 25:42.360] Is that right? [25:42.360 --> 25:43.740] Yeah, absolutely. [25:44.380 --> 26:01.440] Both kind of now while I'm waiting for things to be set up and in the future when I can go to university and can use it to kind of, at the minute I can use it to talk to friends and do things that I couldn't otherwise do if I can't get out of the house or if I'm ill or anything like that. [26:01.440 --> 26:09.140] And further down the field, I know we were talking earlier about some kind of mechanical arms that hopefully you're going to try and get funding for as well. [26:09.260 --> 26:10.560] Do you want to explain what that is? [26:10.560 --> 26:23.500] Yeah, it's kind of a mechanical arm support that you can put your arm in and it kind of requires less strength then to move your arm around and lift it up and down and things. [26:23.800 --> 26:35.700] So, with that I'll be able to have a lot more independence and a lot more function and be able to do lots more things like turning the pages on a book or scratching my nose or pushing my glasses up. [26:36.020 --> 26:37.200] Which I bet gets annoying. [26:37.200 --> 26:38.180] It does, yeah. [26:38.900 --> 26:39.080] It does, yeah. [26:39.080 --> 26:39.100] Definitely. [26:39.540 --> 26:43.680] So, hopefully I won't have to rely on carers so much then to do things. [26:44.040 --> 26:54.580] And if someone's listening at the moment and they've not met somebody like you and they've never had to contact Snowball, just remind them how important the charity is and how much that support... [26:55.400 --> 26:55.880] Okay. [26:56.440 --> 26:59.240] So, I guess the rest is just advertising, but... [27:01.320 --> 27:09.740] Basically, that gives you an idea how ridiculously expensive mobility aids are for disabled people. [27:11.040 --> 27:16.160] Now, we only have ten minutes left, I believe. [27:16.920 --> 27:17.340] Fifteen? [27:17.920 --> 27:18.700] Fifteen? [27:18.700 --> 27:20.000] I want to just highlight about yourself. [27:20.360 --> 27:20.620] Okay. [27:21.700 --> 27:22.460] Um... [27:22.460 --> 27:27.120] I wanna demonstrate to you, uh... [27:27.120 --> 27:33.160] I want to demonstrate to you, basically, how blind people would, uh... read text material. [27:36.840 --> 28:02.300] So, for example, in the training, the social engineering training that I took, unfortunately, Chris didn't give me a text copy of his book because I said, look, a text copy would be so much easier for me because I can just read it with my screen reader. [28:03.180 --> 28:08.000] And I wouldn't have to scan it or anything like that. [28:08.040 --> 28:11.080] And he said, I cannot give you the text copy for copyright reasons. [28:11.160 --> 28:13.400] I said, that's absolutely ridiculous. [28:14.780 --> 28:16.840] I'm totally blind. [28:17.940 --> 28:25.420] I'm not going to pirate your book just because, you know, other people may pirate it. [28:25.420 --> 28:27.300] I need it for a legitimate use. [28:27.760 --> 28:34.380] And if someone does pirate it, you can absolutely blame me for that and sue me or whatever the hell you want to do. [28:36.000 --> 28:38.900] But he wouldn't give me the material. [28:39.200 --> 28:53.960] I could have scanned it, but because my intention, I told him my intention was to scan it, he said, no, I can't give you this book because I don't want it scanned into a system and pirated and all that kind of thing. [28:53.960 --> 28:56.180] But basically, enough about him. [28:58.760 --> 29:07.380] I want I want to demonstrate basically how a blind person would scan material. [29:07.660 --> 29:08.800] I have a copy. [29:08.980 --> 29:10.640] I think it's a copy of the HOPE conference. [29:10.960 --> 29:11.840] I don't know if it is. [29:12.320 --> 29:13.080] Oh, it is. [29:14.820 --> 29:17.200] I'm going to open it to a random page. [29:18.980 --> 29:24.880] And I am going to use my iPhone to scan the text. [29:25.800 --> 29:29.260] So let me airplay the iPhone. [29:48.080 --> 29:48.880] Okay. [29:50.000 --> 29:58.460] This iPhone I have in my hand is more amazing and more life-changing than you guys would ever imagine. [29:58.460 --> 30:00.160] And I'll tell you why. [30:00.800 --> 30:07.580] This iPhone allows me to navigate to certain areas through GPS. [30:07.820 --> 30:14.760] It allows me to find out what's around me as in businesses, restaurants, that kind of thing. [30:16.220 --> 30:17.460] And... Screen dimmed. [30:17.620 --> 30:18.420] Screen locked. [30:18.660 --> 30:19.120] Okay. [30:19.420 --> 30:21.200] Thank you for locking my screen. [30:23.420 --> 30:30.620] So, it also allows me to scan printed text. [30:30.900 --> 30:35.960] And there is an amazing app, which is ridiculously expensive. [30:36.340 --> 30:38.700] It's, I believe, $99. [30:39.380 --> 30:40.860] It's from the App Store. [30:41.020 --> 30:42.620] It's called KNFB Reader. [30:42.620 --> 30:54.580] While it's expensive and unaffordable for some people, especially people in third world countries who don't have the money to buy this kind of thing. [30:55.240 --> 31:01.140] The amazing thing about it is how accurate it actually is. [31:02.140 --> 31:08.300] So, I'm going to demonstrate how we basically scan material like this hope conference. [31:09.040 --> 31:11.420] Now, granted, this is probably in a table. [31:12.200 --> 31:13.900] So, I don't... [31:13.900 --> 31:14.460] Paragraphs there. [31:14.620 --> 31:15.220] Oh, paragraphs. [31:15.460 --> 31:15.600] Great. [31:20.220 --> 31:24.260] Before you scan anything, it's best to check if there's any light. [31:24.260 --> 31:25.560] How do we do that? [31:25.920 --> 31:26.520] Well... [31:26.520 --> 31:27.740] Touch eye reminders. [31:28.500 --> 31:29.140] Messages. [31:29.480 --> 31:30.500] One unread message. [31:30.840 --> 31:31.180] Okay. [31:31.500 --> 31:39.160] We can basically ask either open spotlight and find the light detector app. [31:39.460 --> 31:44.180] Or, we can ask Siri to open light detector for us. [31:44.920 --> 31:49.160] Now, Siri is pretty inaccurate since the latest iOS updates. [31:49.400 --> 31:50.420] But, I'm going to try it anyway. [31:51.600 --> 31:52.980] Open light detector. [31:56.690 --> 31:57.350] Light it. [31:57.530 --> 31:58.650] Have you heard it? [32:00.910 --> 32:01.370] Okay. [32:01.910 --> 32:03.110] That beeping... [32:03.110 --> 32:04.110] I'm going to cover the light. [32:05.910 --> 32:08.170] Basically, now it knows... [32:08.170 --> 32:09.650] Now my iPhone knows that it's dark. [32:10.350 --> 32:11.880] If I hold my iPhone up... [32:14.410 --> 32:17.410] It's going to show you there's a ridiculous amount of light in here. [32:18.250 --> 32:19.810] Why is that useful to me? [32:19.910 --> 32:21.570] Can anyone tell me why that's so useful? [32:23.130 --> 32:23.590] Right. [32:23.590 --> 32:23.630] Okay. [32:24.410 --> 32:25.210] Messages. [32:28.130 --> 32:28.930] Calendar. [32:29.370 --> 32:29.930] Messages. [32:30.390 --> 32:30.430] What? [32:31.890 --> 32:32.690] So... [32:32.690 --> 32:35.470] Without light, you really can't scan anything. [32:35.610 --> 32:38.590] Unless you use the flashlight, which is... [32:40.970 --> 32:41.770] Pretty... [32:42.250 --> 32:43.170] Not so good. [32:44.070 --> 32:48.990] So, I'm going to open KNFB Reader and attempt to scan some text. [32:49.710 --> 32:51.270] Open KNFB Reader. [32:55.380 --> 32:57.120] KNFB Reader, file... [32:58.660 --> 33:01.200] Okay, so we have KNFB Reader open. [33:03.000 --> 33:07.860] So, I'm going to hold the phone just above the text. [33:08.180 --> 33:10.480] And hopefully it will be lined up correctly. [33:11.140 --> 33:13.160] Hold it around a meter above the text. [33:15.920 --> 33:21.420] The great thing about KNFB Reader, it has a field of view report mode. [33:21.420 --> 33:28.800] So, it will basically tell you if you're holding the iPhone correctly. [33:30.240 --> 33:30.980] Field of... [33:30.980 --> 33:31.620] Field of... [33:31.620 --> 33:32.400] Add picture... [33:32.400 --> 33:33.920] Field of view report button. [33:35.780 --> 33:42.860] So, basically, I didn't exactly explain how I use an iPhone, because I need to get through this really quickly. [33:43.620 --> 33:54.440] So, basically, I'm going to double tap the field of view report button, because I'm using VoiceOver, which is basically iPhone's built-in screen reader. [33:54.440 --> 34:03.740] Every single product Apple sells in their store is now completely accessible to the blind and visually impaired. [34:04.200 --> 34:06.480] And also, those... [34:07.760 --> 34:14.960] They all have VoiceOver, Mac, iOS, watchOS, and even tvOS. [34:16.760 --> 34:26.400] So, the gestures of using VoiceOver are a little bit different to what sighted people would use without VoiceOver. [34:26.540 --> 34:29.040] So, I'm going to double tap the field of view report. [34:29.760 --> 34:30.720] Field of view. [34:30.880 --> 34:35.940] The top edge and bottom edge of the page are visible, rotated zero degrees clockwise. [34:36.500 --> 34:36.940] Okay. [34:37.220 --> 34:40.100] So, we've got a completely accurate field of view. [34:40.300 --> 34:44.120] So, let's scan this and see what happens. [34:44.120 --> 34:45.580] Field of view report. [34:45.800 --> 34:47.460] Add picture for batch mode is off. [34:49.160 --> 34:49.880] Fi... [34:49.880 --> 34:51.140] Take picture button. [34:51.540 --> 34:51.980] Okay. [34:55.310 --> 34:56.350] Back button. [34:57.290 --> 34:58.370] Play button. [34:59.050 --> 35:03.890] Now, I can have iPhone's very own TTS read the text out to me. [35:03.970 --> 35:04.230] Let's see. [35:04.390 --> 35:04.830] Pause. [35:06.090 --> 35:06.810] Pause. [35:11.830 --> 35:12.470] Stop. [35:12.810 --> 35:12.970] Stop. [35:14.770 --> 35:15.490] I... [35:15.490 --> 35:15.770] Okay. [35:15.770 --> 35:19.010] Let's get VoiceOver to read it instead because that was ridiculously fast. [35:19.510 --> 35:21.670] View image associated with document. [35:22.010 --> 35:22.230] Button. [35:22.610 --> 35:23.130] To. [35:23.270 --> 35:24.710] This panel, which will... [35:24.710 --> 35:30.290] This panel, which will require much audience participation, is all about unique and interesting locks. [35:30.710 --> 35:34.510] Have a weird lock or even a strange key and want to know more about it? [35:34.750 --> 35:35.950] Bring it to the stag. [35:35.950 --> 35:38.550] If you can stomp our esteemed panel, you'll prize. [35:39.010 --> 35:39.950] Don't be shy. [35:40.250 --> 35:40.730] Ellipsis. [35:40.910 --> 35:46.690] Bring out your unique unlock hardware and, if you're really brave, jpanel a chance to try to pick it. [35:47.250 --> 35:48.170] Friday, 1900. [35:48.510 --> 35:48.810] Lamar. [35:49.390 --> 35:50.070] One Street Give. [35:50.550 --> 35:53.050] Legalizing autonomous production and permaculture. [35:53.050 --> 35:57.230] So, as you can hear, it's really accurate, isn't it? [35:59.870 --> 36:02.750] Thank you, Sensatech, for actually building this app. [36:02.910 --> 36:04.010] It's changed my life. [36:04.230 --> 36:05.270] It really has. [36:05.590 --> 36:08.570] And it's changed the life of so many other blind people. [36:12.110 --> 36:12.610] So... [36:12.610 --> 36:16.510] Chef, what was the first reading engine that was going very fast? [36:16.730 --> 36:19.090] And how did you process that? [36:19.090 --> 36:20.330] Okay. [36:20.750 --> 36:25.050] The first reading engine that was iPhone's very own TTS, Samantha. [36:26.630 --> 36:30.890] I believe it's by Acapella or Nuance, whichever one. [36:34.510 --> 36:42.650] So, basically, I've learned to listen to text-to-speech since I was born. [36:42.950 --> 36:46.570] Now, I can understand that because I have the ear for that. [36:46.570 --> 36:47.970] And I've... [36:49.590 --> 36:52.410] I've basically lived through text-to-speech. [36:54.410 --> 37:02.090] So, I can have the rate to 100%, which is probably 500, 600 words per minute or even more, and understand that. [37:02.930 --> 37:03.090] Yeah. [37:04.810 --> 37:11.450] Unfortunately, people who are not used to text-to-speech don't get that opportunity. [37:12.210 --> 37:15.210] So, I have to slow the speed down for you guys. [37:17.810 --> 37:18.250] Um... [37:18.250 --> 37:18.650] Let's see. [37:18.710 --> 37:19.110] What's the time? [37:19.190 --> 37:20.510] We only have about three minutes. [37:20.670 --> 37:20.870] Okay. [37:20.990 --> 37:21.770] We have three minutes. [37:21.970 --> 37:28.650] I'm really sorry I couldn't demonstrate every single thing to you, but I'm going to be at HOPE through to Sunday. [37:29.150 --> 37:33.470] So, I'm more than happy to set up somewhere and demonstrate stuff for you. [37:34.170 --> 37:36.670] Let's take questions from the audience. [37:37.110 --> 37:38.870] Anything at all to do with blindness? [37:40.310 --> 37:42.130] How fast do you read Braille? [37:42.850 --> 37:43.690] Pretty fast. [37:45.070 --> 37:45.750] Um... [37:45.750 --> 37:47.270] Probably as fast as you read print. [37:49.770 --> 37:51.550] Are there any open source... [37:51.550 --> 37:55.270] Because it seems like a lot of these products are really prohibitively expensive. [37:55.790 --> 37:59.770] Are there a lot of open source initiatives to make them more accessible and more widespread? [38:01.650 --> 38:03.730] There is an open source screen reader. [38:03.990 --> 38:04.550] NVDA. [38:06.450 --> 38:07.010] Um... [38:07.010 --> 38:09.170] Which people are actually absolutely loving. [38:09.590 --> 38:11.190] It's completely free. [38:12.710 --> 38:16.830] So, it's especially useful to people in third world countries. [38:17.250 --> 38:17.850] Um... [38:17.850 --> 38:23.410] For blind people who maybe have a computer but cannot afford to pay for a screen reader. [38:24.350 --> 38:24.950] Um... [38:24.950 --> 38:28.090] Which the most expensive screen reader and probably the best... [38:28.090 --> 38:28.490] Uh... [38:28.490 --> 38:30.030] The best screen reader since NV... [38:30.030 --> 38:30.630] Um... [38:30.630 --> 38:31.470] Other than NVDA. [38:32.750 --> 38:33.350] Is... [38:33.350 --> 38:35.270] One thousand seven hundred U.S. dollars. [38:35.930 --> 38:37.350] Just for a screen reader. [38:39.050 --> 38:40.170] So, there's that. [38:41.090 --> 38:41.410] Um... [38:41.730 --> 38:46.550] There's also an open source dictation bridge. [38:47.270 --> 38:47.910] Which... [38:47.910 --> 38:48.390] Um... [38:48.390 --> 38:49.930] A group are creating. [38:50.150 --> 38:52.490] Which will allow people who use screen readers. [38:52.750 --> 38:54.390] And who may have a mobility impairment. [38:54.710 --> 38:57.170] To dictate using... [38:57.170 --> 39:00.310] I believe it's the Dragon Naturally Speaking engine. [39:00.850 --> 39:02.890] And that should be really, really exciting. [39:05.430 --> 39:07.790] I just wanted to add that there's also the... [39:07.790 --> 39:08.730] Um... [39:08.730 --> 39:11.930] The dictation engine from Carnegie Mellon University. [39:12.290 --> 39:13.070] Which is... [39:13.450 --> 39:13.910] Uh... [39:13.910 --> 39:14.450] Pretty... [39:14.450 --> 39:15.590] Pretty good. [39:15.870 --> 39:16.990] I use it for programming. [39:17.670 --> 39:18.030] Sometimes. [39:18.970 --> 39:20.250] Thanks for letting me know. [39:20.350 --> 39:20.650] I... [39:20.650 --> 39:21.590] I never knew about that. [39:21.590 --> 39:24.190] I noticed your phone screen was off. [39:24.350 --> 39:25.370] How long has your battery last? [39:27.570 --> 39:28.730] Can you repeat the question? [39:29.490 --> 39:29.970] Oh... [39:29.970 --> 39:30.270] The... [39:30.950 --> 39:32.190] The question was... [39:32.190 --> 39:33.150] My phone screen was off. [39:33.390 --> 39:35.210] I totally forgot about that. [39:35.670 --> 39:37.250] I can... [39:37.250 --> 39:37.530] Um... [39:37.530 --> 39:39.450] How long has your battery life been turned off? [39:39.690 --> 39:41.050] Now you can see my screen. [39:41.310 --> 39:41.970] I think. [39:42.430 --> 39:42.790] Wait... [39:42.790 --> 39:43.790] Am I still being airplayed? [39:43.790 --> 39:45.570] Your laptop went to sleep, I think. [39:45.830 --> 39:46.030] Oh. [39:47.950 --> 39:51.610] So do you have better battery life because the screen's off, usually? [39:53.430 --> 39:54.010] No. [39:54.450 --> 39:55.050] It doesn't... [39:55.050 --> 39:55.570] Generally... [39:55.570 --> 39:57.790] It generally doesn't improve the battery life much. [39:58.690 --> 39:59.270] I... [39:59.270 --> 40:02.110] I've done tests with both the screen on and off. [40:02.350 --> 40:03.950] And I've pretty much got the same results. [40:04.470 --> 40:08.030] Maybe other blind people's experiences may differ. [40:09.130 --> 40:09.650] But... [40:09.650 --> 40:09.830] I've... [40:09.830 --> 40:11.870] I've never had much battery improvement. [40:12.530 --> 40:13.050] Uh... [40:13.050 --> 40:13.510] I'm... [40:13.510 --> 40:14.910] I'm really sorry for the screen being off. [40:15.090 --> 40:15.610] I... [40:15.610 --> 40:17.670] Completely forgot about that. [40:18.650 --> 40:20.790] Do you use an Echo or an Amazon Echo? [40:20.910 --> 40:21.170] No. [40:21.430 --> 40:22.150] No, no, no, no, no, no. [40:22.350 --> 40:23.190] Absolutely not. [40:24.090 --> 40:26.130] I'm not willing to violate my... [40:26.130 --> 40:27.030] My privacy... [40:27.730 --> 40:28.430] Just for... [40:28.430 --> 40:29.430] The convenience... [40:29.430 --> 40:29.870] Yeah! [40:34.940 --> 40:35.460] Like... [40:35.460 --> 40:39.660] There is certain things that I will do to violate my own privacy. [40:39.660 --> 40:41.380] For example, use Siri. [40:41.700 --> 40:43.260] Because Siri is super useful. [40:44.460 --> 40:45.100] Um... [40:45.100 --> 40:46.860] I don't use Hey Siri, obviously. [40:47.340 --> 40:49.120] Because it's just like an Amazon Echo. [40:50.860 --> 40:51.500] Um... [40:51.500 --> 40:51.900] But... [40:51.900 --> 40:52.760] Absolutely not. [40:52.900 --> 40:57.480] I will not allow an Amazon Echo to violate me and my... [40:57.480 --> 41:01.120] Family's privacy by listening to me all the time. [41:01.620 --> 41:02.640] Just for convenience. [41:04.300 --> 41:10.440] How accessible have you been with average third party mobile apps made for cyber tech users? [41:10.760 --> 41:12.380] That's a wonderful question. [41:12.580 --> 41:13.320] Can you repeat the question? [41:13.320 --> 41:15.860] I'm a developer and I know many mobile developers. [41:16.460 --> 41:21.860] So the question was, how accessible are third party applications with voice over basically? [41:22.100 --> 41:23.760] And with screen reading technology? [41:28.600 --> 41:30.220] I'll move there... [41:30.220 --> 41:30.560] Uh... [41:30.560 --> 41:30.940] Just... [41:30.940 --> 41:31.940] Let me answer this question. [41:32.320 --> 41:32.560] Um... [41:32.560 --> 41:32.700] Sorry. [41:33.700 --> 41:34.940] We're almost over time. [41:35.100 --> 41:35.440] Um... [41:35.440 --> 41:36.140] Actually out of time. [41:36.280 --> 41:36.440] So... [41:36.440 --> 41:39.020] So answer quickly, but then you can take questions out in the back. [41:39.240 --> 41:39.420] Yeah. [41:39.740 --> 41:39.960] Definitely. [41:40.200 --> 41:41.400] I'll definitely be doing that. [41:41.980 --> 41:42.420] So... [41:43.240 --> 41:49.420] Depending on the way developers write their applications, sometimes the app is completely inaccessible. [41:49.420 --> 41:51.460] For example, a game like Pokemon Go. [41:51.600 --> 41:52.420] Anyone else hate that? [41:53.080 --> 41:53.540] Yeah? [41:56.360 --> 41:56.660] Uh... [41:56.960 --> 41:57.500] But... [41:57.500 --> 42:02.500] Sometimes it's a little thing like labeling buttons or... [42:02.500 --> 42:03.180] Uh... [42:03.180 --> 42:03.860] Making... [42:03.860 --> 42:04.660] Button, button, button, button. [42:05.500 --> 42:06.100] Yeah. [42:07.280 --> 42:10.440] I would love to demonstrate that, but we don't have time. [42:12.360 --> 42:12.660] Um... [42:13.880 --> 42:14.480] And... [42:14.480 --> 42:17.500] I can give you a perfect example of Slack. [42:17.500 --> 42:19.840] Now, uh... [42:19.840 --> 42:20.680] Slack... [42:20.680 --> 42:23.700] Have a great commitment to, um... [42:23.700 --> 42:26.360] Accessibility for the iOS platform. [42:27.240 --> 42:27.640] Uh... [42:27.640 --> 42:28.180] Their... [42:28.180 --> 42:28.860] Their... [42:29.160 --> 42:31.980] Their web browsing platform is... [42:31.980 --> 42:34.600] Or should I say their web platform is not so good. [42:34.900 --> 42:35.940] But, um... [42:35.940 --> 42:41.140] They've improved so much in regards to voiceover compatibility, um... [42:41.140 --> 42:41.540] In... [42:42.020 --> 42:42.700] iOS. [42:43.140 --> 42:44.800] And I always thank them for that. [42:45.340 --> 42:45.740] Because... [42:46.720 --> 42:47.360] It was... [42:47.360 --> 42:52.680] It was thanks to Slack that I joined The Eleventh HOPE Volunteers Group. [42:52.840 --> 42:54.600] And I got so much information out of that. [42:55.020 --> 42:57.060] Which was absolutely incredible. [42:59.040 --> 43:00.760] So, we're out of time. [43:01.300 --> 43:02.620] If you have any more... [43:03.820 --> 43:04.680] Thank you. [43:05.140 --> 43:05.780] Thank you. [43:06.440 --> 43:07.440] Thank you. [43:08.580 --> 43:09.540] Thank you. [43:11.620 --> 43:12.700] Thank you. [43:12.700 --> 43:14.880] If you have any more questions... [43:14.880 --> 43:15.140] I'm... [43:15.140 --> 43:16.080] I'm sticking around. [43:16.400 --> 43:17.880] I will absolutely answer them. [43:18.040 --> 43:19.940] And I'm happy to set up somewhere else... [43:19.940 --> 43:21.520] And demonstrate this stuff for you. [43:21.780 --> 43:23.400] I'm also talking at... [43:24.300 --> 43:24.820] Defcon... [43:24.820 --> 43:25.520] Twice... [43:25.520 --> 43:25.820] At... [43:25.820 --> 43:26.840] Biohacking Village... [43:27.740 --> 43:28.260] And... [43:28.260 --> 43:28.880] Sky Talks. [43:29.360 --> 43:30.860] And you'll be at the Defcon shoot, right? [43:31.060 --> 43:33.380] And I'll hopefully be at the Defcon shoot... [43:33.380 --> 43:34.080] If I can get... [43:34.080 --> 43:34.620] Transportation. [43:36.220 --> 43:36.700] So... [43:36.700 --> 43:38.100] I'm really looking forward to it. [43:38.220 --> 43:38.660] Thank you. [43:39.140 --> 43:39.760] All right. [43:40.040 --> 43:40.920] I'm gonna help you...