RICHARD G. SHERMAN, ESQ.
Calif. State Bar No. 31098
16000 Ventura Boulevard, Fifth Floor
Encino, CA 91436
(818) 379-1180

Attorney for Defendant
Lewis DePayne  






			UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

			CENTRAL DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA

			WESTERN DIVISION

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,   )	CASE NO.  CR 96-881-MRP
			    )
Plaintiff,		    )	DEFENDANT DEPAYNE'S RESPONSE                                     	    
			    )	TO GOVERNMENT'S PROPOSED				                    
			    )   OMNIBUS ORDER RE: DISCOVERY                                      	    
			    )     AND TRIAL MANAGEMENT
vs.			    )	
                            )    
    			    )	 
LEWIS DEPAYNE,        	    )	
    			    )	
Defendant.		    )    
                            )     __________________________________)	
           		


	Comes now Defendant Lewis De Payne, by and through his attorney 

of record and files his Response to the Government's Proposed Omnibus 

Order Re: Discovery and Trial Management.

	This Response is based on all of the files and pleadings in this 

case and the attached Memorandum.

Dated: May 8,1998
                                                               
				_______________________________
				   Richard G. Sherman
                                   Attorney for Lewis DePayne       



		MEMORANDUM OF POINTS AND AUTHORITIES

				I

			PRELIMINARY STATEMENT

	There are several problems which continue to pervade this  

litigation in spite of the Court's efforts to bring some degree of 

order to the instant situation. DePayne realizes that the Court 

wishes to move forward with an Omnibus Order that would deal with 

both discovery and pretrial management. The Proposed Omnibus Order 

prepared by the government does not present a reasonable solution to 

the problems at hand for several reasons:

	1.  Said Proposed Omnibus Order does not deal with the fact that 

the government has ignored DePayne's requests for that pretrial 

discovery to which he is entitled as a matter of law. (1)

____________________
(1)	The government ignores the distinction between DePayne

and his co defendant Kevin Mitnick. All of the evidence amassed 

thus far by the government, of which DePayne is aware, relates to 

Mr. Mitnick, was taken from Mitnick, was stored by Mitnick, etc. 

DePayne is presumed to be innocent and has claimed he has no 

knowledge of the evidence against him with the one exception that 

is described above.

	2.  Said Proposed Omnibus Order does not deal with the fact that 

none of the information furnished to DePayne by the government (this 

category does not include computer generated items) relates to 

DePayne with one exception; that exception being, a tape recording, 

which on its face, would create potential liability for DePayne on 

one count of the Indictment. (2)

--------------------
(2)	Counsel for DePayne has been engaged in the practice of 
law before this Court for the past 37 years. He has been 
representing Mr. DePayne in this action for over one year. He has 
never, before this case, been faced with a situation where the 
Defendant is not aware of what he has allegedly done which forms 
the basis of the charges against him.

	3.  The Computer generated information in its present form is 

useless to DePayne or anyone else for reasons described in DePayne's 

"Reply to the Government's Opposition" to his Bill of Particulars and 

there is no provision in the Omnibus Order for the correction of this 

situation.

	4.  The Proposed Omnibus Order does not permit the copying of 

"(b) files containing proprietary software taken from victim 

companies, entities, or individuals without authorization". It is 

necessary for the Defendants' counsel and their experts to have copies 

of said "proprietary software" in order to determine whether said 

software is really "proprietary" rather then being in the public 

domain.

	5.  The Proposed Omnibus Order does not permit the copying of 

"(d) files containing hacker tools (i.e. programs or commands used to 

gain unauthorized access into computer systems.)." If the defendants 

are going to be charged with the utilization of these tools it will 

be necessary for defense counsel and their experts to copy hacker 

tool files to determine whether or not they in fact are "hacker tools".

	6.  The Proposed Omnibus Order contains unreasonable limitations 

on Mr. Mitnick's access (three times per month) to the computer 

information to be stored in the "discovery room". DePayne is concerned 

with this limitation as he is unfamiliar with said information and as 

set forth in his Reply to the Government's Response to the Bills of 

Particulars a review of those materials could take years.

	7.  The Proposed Omnibus Order while agreeing to provide 

Defendants with an inventory of the electronically stored evidence 

provides that "The inventory need not describe the contents of 

individual electronic files". That limitation is absurd as the 

Defendants will require guidance on the contents of said files rather 

then be required to spend years making that determination for 

themselves.

	8.  The Proposed Omnibus Order relieves the government of its 

obligation to provide notes or work product prepared by government 

counsel (it is doubted that such notes by counsel exist) and 

government agents during their review of the electronic stored 

evidence. It is difficult why the government is not willing to share 

said notes with the defense. Perhaps those notes contain a great deal 

of exculpatory information as is suspected by the Defendants.

	9.  The Proposed Omnibus Order provides that the Government's 

tentative exhibit list should be provided to the Defendants 60 days 

before trial. That list, after over one year since the Indictment in 

this case, should be provided to the Defendants forthwith in order 

that DePayne will have some idea of the nature of the Government's 

case against him. (3) There is no valid reason for further delay in this 

regard.

--------------------
(3)	As stated to this Court previously by counsel for 
DePayne it is his opinion that the Government does not have any 
idea as to what its case might be against DePayne and accordingly 
cannot identify any Exhibits with regard thereto.

	10. The Proposed Omnibus Order provides that 90 days before 

trial the Government will provide Defendants with witness statements 

and 60 days before the Defendants will provide the Government with 

the statements of its witnesses. It is respectfully submitted that 

both side should provide witness statements as they become available.

	11. The Proposed Omnibus Order does reflect that the Defendants' 

discovery motions were taken under submission by the Court. It is 

respectfully requested that the Court allow Defendants brief argument 

on those motions before ruling thereon. Such rulings should be 

reflected in the Proposed Omnibus Order.

As set forth more fully below the Proposed Omnibus Order 

prepared by the Government is deficient in numerous aspects which 

need to be addressed by the Court and counsel. (4)  	 

--------------------
(4)	Item numbers 1,2, and 3 above have been discussed in 
prior pleadings which discussions will not be reiterated here.

				II

		THE DEFENDANTS SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO COPY

		   ALLEGED "PROPRIETARY SOFTWARE"

The Proposed Omnibus Order, at page 2 thereof, does not permit 

the copying of "(b) files containing proprietary software taken from 

victim companies, entities, or individuals without authorization". It 

is necessary for the Defendants' counsel and their experts to have 

copies of said "proprietary software" in order to determine whether 

said software is really "proprietary" rather then being in the public domain.

In order to determine whether or not certain software is 

"proprietary" it will be necessary to copy such software and give it 

to defense experts for a determination as to whether or not it was in 

fact proprietary (secret from all others) at the time it was 

allegedly taken from a victim entity. The Government will want the 

Court and Jury to assume that the entity from whom said software was 

taken by Defendants (if that can be proven) was software developed 

and owned by that particular entity to the exclusion of all others. 

How can this be done without an extensive worldwide software search 

that would have to be conducted by defense experts. It will also have 

to be determined if this software was ever furnished to persons who 

obtained the same without a confidentiality agreement or something 

else that would insure its secrecy. 

	Another that will have to be performed by the Defendants is to 

determine if any of the alleged "proprietary software" was the subject 

of a patent or copyright of the victim entity or anyone else because 

if it was said software could hardly be classified as a secret. 

In the trial of this case the Government will assert that the 

victim entities spent millions of dollars developing said software 

and keeping secret from all outsiders. That will have a great effect 

on the Defendants if they are convicted of any of the charged crimes. 

Any expert analysis such as that above described will require 

copies of the subject "proprietary software". (5) 

--------------------
(5)	It is a common sense observation that software 
developed when it is alleged to have been purloined is in all 
probably secret no longer, if it ever was.

				III

	     THE DEFENDANTS SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO COPY FILES

	     	   CONTAINING ALLEGED "HACKER" TOOLS

The Proposed Omnibus Order, At pages 2-3 thereof, does not 

permit the copying of "(d) files containing hacker tools (i.e. 

programs or commands used to gain unauthorized access into computer 

systems.)." If the defendants are going to be charged with the 

utilization of these tools it will be necessary for defense counsel 

and their experts to copy hacker tool files to determine whether or 

not they in fact are "hacker tools" or have, as defense counsel 

suspects a valid purpose unrelated to computer hacking.	      

				IV

	  THERE SHOULD BE MORE ACCESS TO THE STORED COMPUTER

	BY MR. MITNICK THEN THAT PROVIDED IN THE PROPOSED ORDER

The Proposed Omnibus Order, at page three thereof, contains 

unreasonable limitations on Mr. Mitnick's access (three times per 

month) to the computer information to be stored in the "discovery 

room". DePayne is concerned with this limitation as he is unfamiliar 

with said information and will rely on great part on examinations 

conducted by Mitnick. As set forth in his Reply to the Government's 

Response to the Bills of Particulars a review of those materials 

could take years unless the Government narrows that information  

considerably and sooner then the Proposed Order indicates is its 

present intention. Three times a week might be sufficient but three 

times a month is not under the present circumstances.

				V

	THE PROPOSED INVENTORY OF ELECTRONICALLY STORED EVIDENCE

	   MUST BE SUFFICIENTLY DESCRIPTIVE TO HAVE VALUE

The Proposed Omnibus Order, at page 4 thereof, while agreeing to 

provide Defendants with an inventory of the electronically stored 

evidence provides that "The inventory need not describe the contents 

of individual electronic files". That limitation makes such an 

inventory useless. As the Court will recall the Government has 

already provided Defendants with such an inventory using the coded 

names given to each file by its creator. That inventory was useless.        

	Defendants will require guidance on the contents of said files 

rather then be required to make that determination for themselves. 

The Government has admitted viewing all of the stored evidence and 

knows the contents of each file which has any relevance to them. For 

what reason can this information not be shared with the defense.

				VI

	THE NOTES OF GOVERNMENT ATTORNEYS AND AGENTS REGARDING CONTENTS

	  OF ELECTRONIC FILES SHOULD BE MADE AVAILABLE TO DEFENDANTS

	The Proposed Omnibus Order, at page 4 thereof, relieves the 

government of its obligation to provide notes or work product 

prepared by government counsel (it is doubted that such notes by 

counsel exist) and government agents during their review of the 

electronic stored evidence. It is difficult to understand why the 

government is not willing to share said notes with the defense. 

Perhaps those notes contain a great deal of exculpatory information 

as is suspected by the Defendants. (6)

--------------------
(6)	It is interesting to note that when DePayne and his 
attorney examined the subject electronic information they were 
told by F.B.I. Special Agent Kenneth McGuire that although the 
F.B.I. had seen all of the stored files there were no notes taken 
with regard thereto. 

				VII

	THE GOVERNMENT'S TENTATIVE EXHIBIT LIST SHOULD BE FURNISHED

		TO DEFENDANTS AS SOON AS IT IS PREPARED

The Proposed Omnibus Order, at page 4 thereof, provides that the 

Government's tentative exhibit list should be provided to the 

Defendants 60 days before trial. That list, after over one year since 

the Indictment in this case, should be provided to the Defendants 

forthwith in order that DePayne will have some idea of the nature of 

the Government's case against him. There is no valid reason for 

further delay in this regard.

				VIII

	THE STATEMENTS OF WITNESSES SHOULD BE PROVIDED BY BOTH SIDES

		AS SOON AS THEY BECOME AVAILABLE

The Proposed Omnibus Order, at page 5 thereof, provides that 90 

days before trial the Government will provide Defendants with witness 

statements and 60 days before the Defendants will provide the 

Government with the statements of its witnesses. It is respectfully 

submitted that both side should provide witness statements as they 

become available. This might be of great aid in a pretrial resolution 

of the instant prosecution.

				IX

  THE PROPOSED OMNIBUS ORDER SHOULD NOT BE ENTERED BEFORE THE COURT

  HEARS ARGUMENT AND ISSUES RULING ON DEFENDANTS' DISCOVERY MOTIONS

	The Proposed Omnibus Order does reflect that the Defendants' 

discovery motions were taken under submission by the Court. It is 

respectfully requested that the Court allow Defendants brief argument 

on those motions before ruling thereon. Such rulings should be 

reflected in the Proposed Omnibus Order. As stated several times 

during the course of these proceedings by counsel for DePayne the 

Government has consistently ignored requests for pretrial discovery 

to which he is entitled.

	As an example of such conduct the Court is asked to consider the 

following situation. DePayne has requested, several times, that the 

government furnish to him evidence of wire interceptions by the 

Government or its agents. In support of this written application 

DePayne has stated that such interceptions were conducted by two 

Government agents or informants named  Petersen and Shimomura. 

DePayne even pointed to the Government that Shimomura has his own 

Internet Web Site where he plays intercepted conversations between 

Mitnick and DePayne in an attempt to publicize and sell a book he has 

written about his adventures with Kevin Mitnick. The government 

responds by informing DePayne that neither man is going to be a 

Government witness. Whether or not they are going to be government 

witnesses is not relevant. What is relevant is

whether or not the government has knowledge of such interceptions and 

their content so that it may be determined by the Defendants as to 

whether or not a Kastigar motion is appropriate.

	The Government has not been entirely forthcoming with the Court 

and counsel with regard to Pretrial Discovery to which DePayne is 

entitled. This discovery should be taken into consideration before 

any such order as that proposed by the Government is signed by the 

Court.

				X 

			   CONCLUSION

Based on all of the foregoing it is respectfully submitted that 

the Government's Proposed Omnibus Order should not be signed by the 

Court without substantial revision thereof.

			Respectfully Submitted




                       ________________________________________       
			Richard G. Sherman
			Attorney for Defendant
			Lewis DePayne