Subject: Attorney Donald Randolph 7-23-98 From: Chris Donohue (MSNBC) Host: MSNBC Date: Fri Jul 24 11:26 AM Host Vickie_MSNBC says: Our guest is Donald Randolph, the attorney for Kevin Mitnick, America's most-notorious computer hacker. Check out MSNBC's "Internet Underground": Host Vickie_MSNBC says: Hello, Mr. Randolph...Welcome! Host Donald_Randolph says: Hi, this is Don Randolph, in sunny Santa Monica, Ca and I'm ready for your questions, fire away! Host Chris_MSNBC says: What has taken so long to get Mitnick a computer to review the evidence against him? Host Donald_Randolph says: It's not from want of trying, it took us approximately 8 months to get the court to agree with our position. Host Chris_MSNBC says: Lmo says: pamm> hows mitnick doing in jail? Host Donald_Randolph says: I can guarantee you he'd rather be anywhere else than jail, but he hasn't been in solitary for a year and a half, so he is maintaining. Host Chris_MSNBC says: dweeb says: Pamm? Ask the guest if his client or he himself has any specific ideas about commerce via the internet and the possibility of it undermining the federal reserve? Host Donald_Randolph says: I have no opinion. Host Chris_MSNBC says: Since your client is clearly a flight risk, why do you think he should be granted bail? Host Donald_Randolph says: First off, he's not clearly a flight risk. He was born and raised in the San Fernando Valley and his family and friends are all here. He doesn't have a pot of gold which will allow him to live under a palm tree or like a Bedouin in the desert. So in other words, he has no place to go. Secondly, assuming that he can be characterized as a flight Host Donald_Randolph says: risk, under the law in federal court, that's not sufficient to detain someone without bail when their crime is not in a list of very serious crimes. And last but not least, the government has a requirement to demonstrate that he is a flight risk and they have not been required to do so yet. Host Chris_MSNBC says: dweeb says: OH. . OH. . .and Pamm? Is he or his client in favor of an alternative form of currency which would essentially bypass the banking system in total? Host Donald_Randolph says: I'll have to give that some thought. Host Chris_MSNBC says: Nebulae says: To the guest.... Where do we stand on security against malicious hackers?? Host Donald_Randolph says: I think that security for private information is important and I think obviously great strides are being made in security developments. Parenthetically I believe recreational hackers provide a service to the extent that in a non-malicious way by gaining access to secure areas they demonstrate to the responsible parties such as the guardians of Host Donald_Randolph says: a web site that they have corrections to be made. I think obviously the future answer to security will be encryption. That's an issue the government is very concerned about as well. Host Chris_MSNBC says: kelly says: Pamm aske the guest what kind of education the Hacker had Host Donald_Randolph says: He does not have a college degree, he has some community college credits to the best of my recollection. Host Chris_MSNBC says: dweeb says: Pamm How does your guest and his client percieve the upcoming Y2K problem? Host Donald_Randolph says: No, I'm aware of it, but we're worried about the trial in January of 1999. Host Chris_MSNBC says: baffled says: would like to know if your guest has hacked himself into any goverment files concerning contact with alien life and ufos Host Donald_Randolph says: The answer is of course! Who hasn't? :) Host Chris_MSNBC says: fill says: So Mr.Randolph, when exactly do you plan to file a petition to the supreme Court Host Donald_Randolph says: We would like to have that filed within a week. Host Chris_MSNBC says: Can you describe the position filming of a feature move based on the book Takedown puts your client in? Host Donald_Randolph says: That seems to be the question of the day. As his criminal defense attorney, I am interested in ensuring that the film doesn't come out til after the trial. I understand that the latest script of the movie "Takedown" has downgraded his position from Attila the Hacker to a cat burglar. Host Donald_Randolph says: However, he is still portrayed in a very negative light. Host Chris_MSNBC says: SandShark says: Mr. Randolph...how has kevin kept his spirit up after being in jail for 3 ½ years without a trial? Host Donald_Randolph says: Let's see, he eats a lot of tuna and he gets a lot of positive and encouraging mail. I tell him jokes every time I see him. :) Host Chris_MSNBC says: Steve_Baxley says: mr. randolph, what makes a person want to do this Host Donald_Randolph says: That's a difficult question to answer. Assuming we're talking about hacking, I don't pretend to be a psychologist. However, I think that Mr. Mittnick is part of a generation that has been weaned on the development of the computer. I think when you combine that phenomena with Yankee ingenuity and curiosity, the result is that individuals hack. Host Donald_Randolph says: I think it is not unlike the part of our culture that has caused people to always aspire to build a better mousetrap. Part of the hacking culture is a quest for information just because it's there and part of it is to rise to the challenge of information that exists but is just beyond the grasp. I do not think that recreational hackers act out of malice or in an attempt to destroy anything. Host Chris_MSNBC says: dweeb says: I'd also like to ask Mr. Randolph if his client did this to prove it could be done or did he really have a bigger picture in mind. Host Donald_Randolph says: I can say this - there are no allegations in this case that Mr. Mitnick sought any personal gain out of his hacking activities. Host Chris_MSNBC says: SandShark says: Mr. Randolph...has kevin received any support from microsoft/bill gates? Host Donald_Randolph says: None. Host Donald_Randolph says: But we welcome his support. Host Chris_MSNBC says: scott says: Pamm: Will the new plan for a med-id card have real concerns for peoples privacy? Can they be hacked? What systems in the government are still vulnerable? What are they doing to fix it? Host Donald_Randolph says: I think that those are all good questions and I think the answer to personal security is encryption. Host Chris_MSNBC says: kate says: Mr Randolphwith the Secret Service in the news, can you comment on your experience with the SS in this case? Are they really 'apolitical" as they are purported to be? Host Donald_Randolph says: All government agencies are not the same. The Secret Service really has little involvement in federal prosecution, my only experience has been in counterfeit cases. As an agency, it really depends on the specific agent if they're good or otherwise. Host Chris_MSNBC says: HAVOCtheCHAOS whispers to Chris_MSNBC: Can you ask Dr. Radolph: Is the help from hackers that Kevin is getting and help to him? Host Donald_Randolph says: I'm not sure what you're referring to. There were a couple of instances in which there were some threats of viruses if Kevin was not released. These occurred last December if I recall. I don't think that those types of things are helpful. I believe there was some picketing of Miramax offices earlier in the week. That action appears to have gotten the attention of Miramax. Host Chris_MSNBC says: Jonathan says: Why haven't you hired additional attorneys with backgrounds in writing appeals? After all, this is not your field and Greg is a newbe attorney. Host Donald_Randolph says: First, I have substantial experience at the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, which is where these appeals are directed, probably more than most trial attorneys in LA. Mr. Vinson, my associate, is a superior researcher and writer. His legal work can stand up against anybodys. Host Donald_Randolph says: I would love to hire a staff of attorneys to assist, but our budget is limited obviously. Host Chris_MSNBC says: Knightmare says: Donald_Randolph: _Is Gerry Spence still invloved in any way with Kevin's defense? Host Donald_Randolph says: No. Host Chris_MSNBC says: Abe says: Donald, Why are Corporations Dumb enough to put important stuff where Public can get to it in the first Place????? Host Donald_Randolph says: One reason is the government has restricted the proliferation of strong encryption technology, so on one hand they're concerned about preventing hackers from breaking into corporations. On the other hand they prevent corporations from protecting themselves. (Greg Vinson speaking) Host Donald_Randolph says: I join in his answer. Host Chris_MSNBC says: Jonathan says: Mr. Randolph, how much are you paid as a court appointed attorney? Host Donald_Randolph says: $75 an hour. Host Donald_Randolph says: My hourly overhead to maintain my office and staff exceeds $75/hour. Host Chris_MSNBC says: Cupid says: Mr. Randolph, please fill us in on what happened. Thanks! Host Donald_Randolph says: No, I can't give you a short synopsis. He's charged with computer and wire fraud arising from a series of hacking incidents. He's in jail because they have detained him without bail, they being the government. Host Chris_MSNBC says: diakonos says: Mr. Randolf - How did Kevin "get caught"? What "electronic fingerprints" did he leave behind? Host Donald_Randolph says: I know the answer to that, but I can't tell you at this point in time. We'll see if Miramax gets it right. Host Chris_MSNBC says: jbr says: Mr. Randolph: Do you then support what your client did? Host Donald_Randolph says: First off, he is alleged to have conducted certain activities. In our system you're presumed innocent til proven guilty. I don't think my client should be fighting this case from a jail cell. I think the government has far overcharged this case and should have settled the matter so he would be out of custody by now. Host Chris_MSNBC says: SandShark says: Mr. Randolph...do you think you'll be able to find a jury that will be able to understand this case? Host Donald_Randolph says: That's a good question. The government is doing its level best to create an atmosphere of fear of computers and hackers. We will, through presentation of expert testimony and hopefully common sense, try to disabuse jurors of that fear. Host Chris_MSNBC says: mjh404 says: what was the actual damage Kevin Mitnik was actually found guilty of? or has he spent 3 years for nothing? Host Donald_Randolph says: He is in jail now because of a pending indictment. So, he has not been found guilty of the charges for which he is currently in custody. Host Chris_MSNBC says: Lmo says: donald> why doesn't hapeas corpus apply to Kevin? Host Donald_Randolph says: Habeas Corpus doesn't apply until the trial is over. Host Chris_MSNBC says: Closing remarks... Host Donald_Randolph says: This has been an interesting experience. I think many of the questions show an appreciation that the issues in this case have to do of course with Kevin Mitnick, but what is being played out in the courtroom is I think a significant issue of the government interest in controlling the future of information. Host Donald_Randolph says: An example is being made of Kevin Mitnick in what we think is an unfair fashion. We only ask that the punishment fit the crime. In the Kevin Mitnick case, the punishment already extracted far surpasses the alleged crimes he's committed and it goes on. Free Kevin!