99.5 FM
And you're listening to WBAI New York
where Off the Hook is just around the corner.
This Saturday, Miguel Algarín
presents another live
from the New Yorican Poets Café
in its first poetry
ball ever for radio.
That's right, Bob Holman
will be hosting it. Who's Bob?
You gotta tune in or come on down
to check out what he can do
describing the poets with their wonderful costumes
colors, poetry in motion
as they come up to the stage and deliver
the spoken word. That's this Saturday
10 till midnight
at the New Yorican Poets Café located at
236 East 3rd Street
between Avenues B
and C.
Be there, and if you can't
tune it in right here, you know where
on Hey, we work hard for the money
send in your pledges
because we need them now
more than ever before
radio
99.5 FM
W-B-A-I
And you're listening to W-B-A-I
New York
It's 10.09
We're nine minutes late
but better late than never
Off the Hook is on the air
The telephone keeps ringing
So I ripped it off the wall
I cut myself while shaving
Now I can't make a cough
It couldn't get much worse
But if they could, they would
Bum-Diddley-Bum
But the best is back from worst
I hope that's understood
Bum-Diddley-Bum
And a good evening to
one and all
This is Off the Hook
Emmanuel Goldstein with you
for two hours tonight
as we wind down
our marathon fundraising
Hopefully we'll do quite well
tonight
However, we're going to
break with tradition
a little bit
and go right into something
that we never go right into
Phone calls
Give us a call right now
on the air
212-279-3407
is the special number
to call
No, no, not the fundraiser line
Although if you want to
pledge money to us
of course you want to call
212-279-3400
It's kind of weird
to watch the phones
lighting up here
You say something
and all of a sudden
you see a burst of activity
and of course
they all called the number
that you expected them to call
but that's not the number
we're giving out today
because it's fundraising time
So, to repeat
and since all the lines
are busy now anyway
it's kind of a moot point
If you want to call up
and be on the air
right now
at the beginning of the show
which is something
we absolutely never do
then give a call
to 212-279-3407
but you'll hear a busy signal
if you try that now
because you just weren't
quick enough
So, to console
yourself and everybody else involved
give a call to the line
that's wide open
which is 212-279-3400
and pledge something
because by pledging something
you allow us to continue
to do wild and crazy things
in the future
and we've got some
pretty interesting things
lined up tonight
pretty interesting things
including something
very progressive
that's so controversial
that we probably
won't ever be allowed
near the station again
but that's just
the way we are
Let's see who's out there
take a couple of quick calls
and then we'll get
right into this
Good evening
You're on Off the Hook
Hi there
I've listened to your show
for a while
and I was wondering
if you can tell me
about PBX systems
because my company
has one
and I'm worried
about hackers
Well, you should be
worried if you have
a PBX system
for sure
because PBX systems
private branch exchanges
is what it stands for
those are sort of like
independent phone companies
run by your company
and lots of times
companies are not meant
to run their own
phone systems
phone systems usually
should be run
by the phone company
i.e. Centrex
run by local phone companies
when you have a PBX
though
you're opening yourself
up to all kinds
of problems
including overcharging
or having people
come in
and get access
to your system
get outside dial tones
and just go
completely crazy
so you gotta
watch yourself
you gotta be careful
so PBXs are something
that
there's so many
different kinds
so it's hard
to sort of
lay out the
exact rules
that apply
for all of them
but basically
PBXs are something
to be wary of
and also something
interesting to explore
Dave Burstein is here
and he's got either
a point or a question
or a criticism
this fellow asked
about PBXs
yeah
well you can't say
individual details
but let's ask it
this way
is there any PBX
that isn't
interruptible
or crackable
well in theory
I suppose there is
but then again
you never really know
until you try it
for a couple of years
but
Fibre what do you think
well I think that
if it's set up properly
then you shouldn't
experience any problems
with it
but it seems that
the companies that
sell the PBXs
to the corporations
are not equipping them
with the proper
technical information
that they need
in order to
understand the system
to program it properly
and to keep out
intruders from
misusing their facilities
and then they turn around
and they blame
the end user
the customer
for anything that goes wrong
if there's a
$10,000 phone bill
one month
well it's not our fault
you know
you did something wrong
you didn't change
the passwords
sometimes it is
their fault
but sometimes
it's something
inherently wrong
with the system
and you know
we've been experiencing
this to a sort of
small degree
at 2600
but our problem
has been the phone
company
not any independent
entity
no independent PBXs
it's simply
false flaws
within the phone company
that allow certain
things to go through
and they shouldn't
allow them to go through
and we keep telling
them that
and they just won't
listen
but we're used to that
oh but they do
listen to you
oh they listen
alright
in fact
I think this is them
right now
yes
that's a warning
alright
let's take another
phone call
and move on
good evening
good evening
I've been dying
to ask you a question
for a long time
are you getting feedback
from my radio
is that the question
no
well no I'm not
I hope you're not
disappointed by that
no I'm not
the question is
I need some advice
I need to get
an 800 service
and I wanted to inquire
about which
I don't know
if you could recommend
or if you think
I should write in
you mean you just
want an 800 number
well I want to get
for a small business
that I'm operating
from my home
I don't know
which is the most
reasonable in price
I know there's
Sprint MCI AT&T
well what would you
think would be reasonable
how much would you
be willing to spend
as little as possible
yeah but I mean
I know that
I think AT&T offers
something that
is like 40 cents
per call
and it's a
relatively small
connection charge
like I think
they said 15 dollars
or something
and do they have
a monthly fee
attached to that
no it's just
a per call charge
if it's just
a per call charge
and nothing else
and a small
installation fee
that does sound
like a pretty good
deal but did you
say 40 cents
per call
that's what I
believe they quoted
me in
that's very high
actually
the one that
I'm familiar with
is cable and
wireless
and that's the
one I tend to
recommend to people
because it's
versatile
you can take
an 800 number
and you can
program it
you got call
waiting coming in
yeah I'm sorry
I don't want to
get that
that's the sound
of call waiting
on a number
one ESS by the
way
or a 1A
or a 1A
but the loud
clicking noise
as opposed to
the tone
you can buy
that box
to imitate that
but in any
event
what you want
is something
that allows you
to be versatile
you can take
your 800 number
and you can
make it ring
someplace else
let's say
you have to go
to another
location
your 800 number
can follow you
and it costs
$5 a month
to have that
service tacked
on to the
normal $15
a month
in charge
so in other
words
could I
connect it
to my
answering service
because I'd
prefer not
to have it
ring in my
home all the
time
right
you can have
it
all you'd
have to do
is call up
and reprogram
it anytime
you want
and you can
send it to
another location
anywhere in
the country
now as far
as cost
I don't know
exactly what
the cost is
but I have
one set up
to a beeper
and I know
that I've seen
on the bill
when people
call the beeper
and just beep
a number
which takes
about 10 seconds
the cost
is about
8 cents
so
it seems
to be a lot
lower than
that 40 cents
unless that's
a 40 cent
flat rate
you can stay
on for as
long as you
want
but I really
doubt that
so what I
would do
if I were
you would
call cable
and wireless
and ask
them more
about that
are you
familiar
with this
company
connect
no
okay
because they're
a new
company
and the
same question
with regard
to long
distance
services
because
long
distance
services
are far
too
complex
to say
that one
company
is better
than another
because
depending
on your
needs
it's possible
AT&T might
be better
for you
it's possible
some other
company might
be better
for you
that's just
something
I'd have
to study
yeah
shop around
and find
out what
your needs
are
and take
it from
there
right
okay
thanks so
much
I really
appreciate it
thanks for
calling
we'll take
one more
call right
now
and then
we'll take
some more
calls
a little
later
good evening
you're on
off the hook
good evening
can you tell
me what's
a good way
to break
into the
telephone business
and what
kind of
training you
need
and stuff
like that
wait do you
want to break
into the
telephone business
or the
telephone computer
yeah telephone
computer
you gotta make
up your mind
here
I'm already
like a
computer hacker
you know
I'm trying
to find a
job and
stuff
and I'm
searching
searching
searching
searching
is there
any
training
that you
need
to get
a job
at AT&T
or you
know
well you
probably won't
get a job
by breaking
into their
computer
you'll
certainly
get their
attention
and you
might even
get their
respect
but you
probably
also get
an indictment
Fiber do you
know anything
about the
training for
people that
want to
actually work
for the
phone company
well you
you could
sort of
you could be
a conformist
and you can
go to college
and take
telecommunications
courses
or you can
learn it from
the school
of hard
knocks
and do
you know
you can learn
on your own
there's plenty
of books
that you can
read
that you can
pick up
in any
bookstore
at all
about
telecommunications
engineering
and you
could certainly
do well
just doing
that
how would
somebody go
about breaking
into a PBX
because that
I mean
how do you
do that
I mean
when I call
a PBX
it's just
I'm calling
with my voice
I'm not calling
with a computer
I mean
what do you
mean break
into a PBX
well you have
touch tones
do you not
oh okay
I mean
I have touch
tones
but like
I mean
usually
when you get
the receptionist
at a big
company
right
but
they don't
want to hear
touch tones
they just
want to hear
your voice
well that's
true
but the receptionist
is not there
24 hours a day
is she
oh I see
yeah so
if you call
these companies
late at night
often times
something automated
will pick up
and every touch
tone does
something different
and that's
all I'm going
to say
okay
thanks for
calling
that's
a small
sampling
of
many phone
calls
that we
get here
WBAI
and we'll
be taking
a little bit
more
a few more
phone calls
a little
later on
from people
very much
like you
but now
we need
people
very much
like you
to call
us
on the
other
line
and pledge
some support
to the radio
station
to WBAI
to Off
the Hook
so that we
can continue
bringing you
programs
where we
answer
questions
bring you
bits of
information
and we
want to
reciprocate
we want
to give
you something
in return
this is the
last night
we're going
to be
raising funds
last night
that our
particular
program
will be
raising
funds
Claude is
here
Claude you
know more
about this
than I do
how many
more nights
of fundraising
do we have
at the
station
till Friday
there are a
couple of
send ups
of the
wonderful Bush
administration
coming up
well that's
always fun
we have
tomorrow and
Friday and
I'm sure
we'll have
some more
quality programs
as well
but as far
as tonight
this is the
last off the
hook that
we'll be
trying to
raise funds
so we do
want to
come off
looking good
so that
we don't
have to
hang our
heads
at the
next
staff
meeting
give us
a call
212-279-3400
for a
$70 pledge
listen
carefully
for a
$70 pledge
you can
get both
a subscription
to 2600
magazine
the hacker
quarterly
and a
2600 t-shirt
and I was
just down in
Austin Texas
for the
Steve Jackson
trial
now a little
bit of poetic
irony here
I went down
there for the
Steve Jackson
trial last
week and
well it
turned out to
be postponed
for a week
so the trial
began just as
my plane was
lifting off to
come back
home
regardless
though I
don't feel
cheated
I feel like
I learned
quite a bit
about another
part of the
country and
I also found
out that
Austin is a
really cool
city with
lots of
interesting
people and
a spirit
that just
cannot be
crushed
very much
like the
hacker spirit
in a way
and there's
a lot of
hackers in
Austin Texas
you don't
expect it
you know
you're driving
along in the
desert
you know
cactus and
lizards and
things like
that and
small towns
with you know
one traffic
light and a
diner maybe
and a gas
station or
two and
you know
not very many
people either
you go through
these towns
like there's a
town called
Ozona
I'm not kidding
about this
it's a town
called Ozona
in Texas
I don't know
why they named
it that if
that's where
all the ozone
is but
there are
buildings but
there are no
people you drive
down the street
and you see
things you know
pizza places that
don't have any
people in them
and they're not
open it's ghost
town and there's
ghost towns all
over the place but
then you keep
driving down that
desert road and
you get into
Austin and it's
a college town
you have a lot
of people in
bookstores record
stores alternative
ways of life and
long hair and all
that kind of neat
stuff it's just
very inspiring you
know being here in
New York we get
accustomed to things
we get hardened to
things we tend to
to sort of become
cynical and think
that the rest of the
world isn't listening
but in a place like
Austin you can just
express yourself you
can feel a lot more
at ease with the
world so I think we
all deserve to go
to a place like
that but there's a
lot they don't have
they don't have a
radio station like
WBAI you know
they have a public
radio station and
of course it sounds
like all the others
you know they play
I don't know if
it's classical music
or jazz 24 hours a
day but it's one of
them and they have
all the politically
correct programs on
at the politically
correct times but
they don't have
alternative thoughts
being spewed out
24 hours a day they
don't have programs
like off the hook
and programs like
all the other
programs you hear
on WBAI and we're
the exception New
York is the
exception most of
the country does not
have this kind of
material and the
reason for that is
that somebody got
there first somebody
took up the
available radio
dials radio
frequencies before
troublemakers like
the Pacifica people
came into town or
maybe there just
aren't enough people
to support a radio
station like this
well this is New
York City we
reach New Jersey
we reach Connecticut
we reach Long
Island and we know
there are people out
there listening to us
right now 212-279-3400
give us a call pledge
your support and
remember we do take
Visa we do take
MasterCard and that
will make your life a
lot easier if you
choose to pay in that
particular way and we
do take any pledge any
pledge of what you can
afford for $70 though
you will get that
special offer and this
is the last night this
is being offered and
you will get a
subscription to the
primary hacker magazine
of the world really
and I'll tell you it's
kind of shocking to go
into a town like
Austin where they read
more books you know
this is a fact they
read more books per
person than in New
York City it's true
they more people read
there buy books and
they have bookstores
everywhere you can
possibly look it's a
university town I
suppose that has
something to do with
it but it's just
incredibly literary and
you go into these
bookstores and just
about all these
bookstores have 2600 in
them they have the
hacker magazine and
people are going crazy
trying to read this and
now they're even selling
t-shirts down there you
know hacker t-shirts so
it's becoming a very big
thing a very popular
thing and something that a
lot of people are
interested in so it's not
like we're offering you
something that you know
it's not going any
place and nobody's
heard of it and it's
just a big waste of
time this is something
that a lot of people are
are you know jacking
into so to say they're
they're getting involved
and you can get involved
in many ways you can
help the radio station
you can invest in
non-commercial radio and
you can also learn quite a
bit now maybe in these
last three phone calls we
took you might have
learned a little bit of
information well multiply
that by a hundred maybe
even a thousand that's
what you'll get just by
reading the back of the
t-shirt alone it's true
in fact in California I
hear it's illegal to wear
our t-shirts don't go to
California because there's
bits of information on the
t-shirt that might get you
into trouble like there's a
schematic and you're not
supposed to have
schematics like that but
regardless the magazine
will get you all kinds of
interesting bits of
information and something
that you just won't get
anyplace else just like you
don't get things here you
do get things here that you
don't get in other places
we have two callers on the
line I'd like to make that
for 212-279-3400 club and
you don't get things here
that you do get everywhere
else that's something yeah
like commercials my
commercials you don't get
commercials here you notice
that oh yeah I hear I hear
it I hear I hear the the
chorus out there yeah but
you get these dumb pledge
drives all the time yeah
okay I used to be part of
that chorus too whenever I
saw Channel 13 doing this
but it's necessary because if
we don't have the pledge
drives we have to have
commercials and imagine what
BAI would sound like if we
had a you know an Exxon spot
coming up in the next minute
or something from New York
Telephone you know I think
even PBS now has these and
what they call enhanced
endorsements or enhanced
subscribers yeah they're trying
to get the best of both worlds
and that's something that we
will never do here at WBAI we
won't go for that that kind of
you know half sincerity is what
I call it where you say you're
non-commercial but you try to
get as much from the
corporations as possible we
don't want anything from the
corporations they do their
thing we do our thing you know
stay in your world don't cross
the line okay that's the way we
work here and that's that's why
we need your help because you're
our only form of support and I
would say this that you you have
a listenership and Emmanuel has
a listenership and you who are
listening to the radio are
probably tuned in because you're
a regular listener most likely
or maybe you just discovered
this by accident but I would ask
you this that if you know what
the prisoner's dilemma is act on
that knowledge call up don't be
don't play the treasonous role in
the prisoner's dilemma that's very
poetic there thank you two one two
two seven nine three four hundred
we have two calls on the line and
I'd like to make that go up to
well you know I heard I heard both
miss you and the computer people
getting all seven lines lit and you
know I think I think here at off
the hook we're capable of doing
that it's been a while since we
didn't since we did that I think
two weeks ago we we almost did it
but we didn't quite do it so if
you're out there you're one person
you're one person of many and it's
kind of like this year this year is
going to be the year of the
individual the individual finally
standing up and fighting back
saying I've had enough of what's
been going on and now it's time that
the rest of the world listen to me
and you know enough individuals get
together and say similar things
things do start to change I mean look
at what's going on in the world you'll
see that things are happening has
been a change in leadership and it was
really kind of inspiring being in
Austin Texas while the Clinton
coronation was going on I don't mean
that disrespectfully I mean it was a
coronation of sorts but it it's it's
indications of change you know
something different on the horizon
things Bush Reagan policies being
dismantled you know organizations being
disbanded it just felt so good to see
this happening and you know you just
felt like yeah this is this is justice
at last now how long is going to last
will Clinton continue to to turn
around on some issues and maybe break
some promises it's possible but if it
happens it's our fault because we let
it happen and that's what happens all
it takes for for evil things to happen
is for good people like us to remain
silent now calling up and pledging
money to BAI doesn't solve all the
problems of the world but it does help
it helps to keep a voice speaking and
that voice is partially your voice
212-279-3400 we we spend the money on
very important things here like fixing
pieces of equipment that that break for
whatever reason yeah that's one over
there in fact all kinds of things
constantly go wrong at a radio station
and you need to be able to to to fix
them when they do 212-279-3400 one
thing we do not spend money on is you
know rich plush carpeting and air
conditioning and secretaries and too
bad to and and personalities on the
air either you know with the million
dollar salaries we don't have that here
what we do have is an outrageous phone
bill because we're constantly talking
to people on other parts of the world
letting you know what's going on it's a
primary source of information for a
lot of people 212-279-3400 every penny
counts this is our last night doing this
here at off the hook please give us a
call 212-279-3400 I sure hope that
number up there is not the accurate
number but it is it means that
absolutely nobody has pledged and you
can change that 212-279-3400 please
give us a call show your support for
this radio program so that we can
remain doing what we do and a strong
showing tells us that you care a weak
showing tells us that you don't it's as
simple as that and while I'd like to
think that that programs are not
scheduled as a result of the finances
they bring in it must go through
people's minds you know you must have
dark suspicions yeah because if a radio
program is on at a certain time and
fails to bring in any support
whatsoever it must mean something right
think about it and let's not bring it to
the to the point where people have to
actually question our existence because
that always gets you into trouble when
you start questioning existence 212-279-3400
let's get some calls in all right we have
something coming up now which may shock
you may shock you it may disgust you it
may frighten you you just don't know you
just don't know stay tuned this is going
to be a radio first here on off the hook
remember that phone number 212-279-3400
let's get some calls coming in
you
on
you
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
And now what we have for you is a reenactment, if you will, a reenactment of a press conference which took place in Lubbock, Texas by the Secret Service.
The Secret Service currently being sued by Steve Jackson.
We'll get into that in a little while.
We'll tell you what's happening with that ongoing trial, which I flew down to miss and came back here to witness.
That's going on in Austin.
But this is something that happened in Lubbock.
A lot going on in Texas.
You'd be surprised.
Now, Tom Adams is a Lubbock sysop.
It's got kind of a ring to it, doesn't it?
Hey, everybody, I'm a Lubbock sysop.
But that's what he is.
He publishes a BBS newsletter and he made up a transcription.
Well, he didn't make it up.
He composed it out of something that really happened.
And it came after attending a news conference held by the Secret Service in Lubbock shortly after a raid on alleged software pirates.
Now, the comment of this person who sent this over to me said,
It's scary when you realize what kind of hazy knowledge the people who are investigating and prosecuting these things actually have of networking.
All right.
This is a transcript of a press conference held on December 15th at Secret Service offices in Lubbock, Texas.
It was held by Agent David Frerichs and is regarding the actions of the Secret Service at Texas Tech University on December 14th, 1992.
The press conference was transcribed and attended by Tom Adams, who is a sysop of Captain's Corner.
You can reach that at area code 806-762-5536.
The part of Agent Frerichs will be played by Fiber Optic.
The part of the reporter will be played by yours truly, Emmanuel Goldstein.
The part of the second reporter will be played by Dave Burstein and Claude.
You'll be playing.
Who will you be playing?
Simon, a Secret Service agent.
Yeah, a second Secret Service agent.
Yes.
No, no, no, no, no.
Okay, all right.
Is everybody ready here?
This is important radio drama first.
Let me make sure your microphone is working.
Fiber Optic.
Testing, one, two, three.
Okay.
It's working.
Begin speaking your part.
Okay.
Okay, yesterday, December 14th, 1992, in cooperation with and working with the Texas Tech University Police Department and Academic Computing Services,
The Secret Service and the University Police executed two search warrants for computer fraud and pirated bulletin board computers.
One was on campus and one was off.
This person off campus was a former student who had been in the past interviewed and disciplinary handled?
Just read it the way it is.
Okay.
Interviewed and disciplinary handled by the university for doing the same thing.
No charges have been filed.
No charges have been filed.
There will be a federal grand jury in January.
We are anticipating this case will be presented to them at that time.
The former student was expelled from the university for misusing the VAX system on campus.
The case essentially was misuse of those VAX accounts or the Academic Computing Services accounts.
The students are advised when they open these accounts what the rules and regulations are,
and Margaret Simon, Director of Texas Tech's News and Publications Department.
We'll cite those here in a minute.
We will go ahead and show you the stuff, at least one of them, and they are all three essentially the same.
All right?
We have not set all three of them up.
We've got one up and running so you guys can get an idea of what we're looking at.
The one on campus was what we consider a pirate bulletin board and a fairly sophisticated one.
The one off campus was primarily, as were all of them, dealing in proprietary and copyrighted software, games, and programs.
Prior to this case this time, the former student admitted to at least $6,000 worth of stuff that he got himself,
and that's probably not even close to the dollar amount that we are looking at now.
We're just now beginning to amass the dollar amount.
We're anticipating a substantial loss to the manufacturer.
Questions?
Yeah, I've got a question.
I'm a reporter here.
Damn good one if you ask me.
Exactly what does it mean, a pirate bulletin board?
I'm not familiar with that.
All right.
Well, a pirate bulletin board is an electronic bulletin board that passes software, electronic games, computer games, and programs,
and pass them back and forth without consent of the manufacturer.
And sometimes they charge, sometimes they don't.
Normally there's no charge.
It's just you give me something and I'll give you something, back and forth,
and the people end up with some tremendous computer programs out there without paying for them.
So they're getting copies of these copyrighted discs.
Right.
For a substantially smaller price for the normally pay?
Or no price at all.
Just to swap for another equally as good program that someone else may have bought.
The problem is they put them up on these electronic bulletin boards and anybody that can get into the bulletin board can get them back.
So you may have, you know, a thousand people getting this particular type program without paying for it.
Can you explain to us how the investigation got started?
Yeah.
How did you guys get involved?
Okay, the initial investigation began back in May when the, what they call CERT, C-E-R-T,
it's the Computer Emergency Response Team from Carnegie Mellon Institute in Pittsburgh.
This is an industry-sponsored group of computer experts that monitor numerous computer systems,
internet, and other things throughout the country.
They notice some very highly unusual activity on internet,
which is one of the computer systems you can access through VAX.
Internet.
They called the university, among others, several universities.
They called tech.
The academic computing services started checking and find out this guy was filling up disks.
Just this one operator was filling up a disk, which is, uh, what did it happen to me?
Uh-oh.
How big would one of those disks be?
About a million?
I don't know.
They're gigabytes.
Gigabyte disks were full.
And the other students on campus couldn't do their own research that the VAX, the system, was intended to be used for.
And so they started checking into who was doing it and whose account code was being used,
and it just worked down from there.
And this former student was using one of the, uh, what kind of association did you say it was,
or organization, campus organization?
Campus organization.
Yeah, they were using one of the campus organizations, and I won't tell you which one.
One of their sub-accounts off one of their VAX account.
Uh, yeah, uh, Margaret, um, I have, I have a question.
Oh, beautiful dress, by the way, Margaret.
Margaret, I have a question.
What, what do you guys, uh, do you have any disciplinary action for, for these students?
Well, well, let me step in.
Uh, the Texas Tech University has a policy that all of our computers are periodically and unannounced audited for security.
And any time there's a violation of the security of Texas Tech's computers,
then if a student is involved, he's subject to university disciplinary action,
but also he's subject to our turning over and referring any evidence for the case to an enforcement
or an investigative agency outside the university, such as we have done in this case,
and we will proceed with disciplinary action in line with any law enforcement action outside the university
that may be, uh, I can't, I believe you've said something unintelligible.
Uh, but I'll ask, I'll ask another question.
Uh, what's it look like for them?
What, what's it look like for them?
Well, any students involved could fail, could face...
No, you went ahead.
Yeah, you skipped one.
I skipped one, yeah.
I'll ask again.
Well, I did hear something.
What's it look like for them?
What's it look like for them?
It's a good question.
I can't say it this time.
Ah, but they could face up to expulsion from the university?
Any students involved could face expulsion from the university.
Um, and what else?
Yes.
That, that is, I guess, the worst scenario then, expulsion.
Well, the, the last kid we took out and shot.
Well, permanent expulsion, expulsion for a certain period of years, and that would be
determined by the university disciplinary committee.
Uh, this is a manual, it's just stepping out of character for a moment.
They actually said that, you know, they actually said the last kid we took out and shot and
laughed.
I would have loved to have had an actual soundbite of that.
But, uh, enough of this.
This is all a joke, obviously.
Well, uh, yeah, some people might, might, might want to say that.
But it really happened.
It really did happen.
Just as we're saying word for word, and, uh, sometimes we, we even skip the words they
skip.
Anyway, uh, back to, uh, back to our little dramatization here.
Can we have a repeat of the last line?
Oh, what, um, what, um, what, permanent expulsion, expulsion for a certain period of years, and that
would be determined by the university disciplinary committee.
And, uh, when will they be deciding on this?
Will they wait until after the federal indictment?
It is my understanding, since students are, since the university goes on holiday next week,
and students are finishing, are finished, as a matter of fact, with this semester, this
week, the disciplinary committee would not meet again until the middle of January for
the spring semester.
Why don't you cite the pamphlet?
Yeah, I wanted to know.
Because each one of these kids had this pamphlet with them yesterday.
Every student who takes a computer course at Texas Tech, or uses the computers in the library,
or in any way has access to university computing facilities or property, is given this policy
statement, laws, and, laws, policies, and computer use.
Every instructor of computer science at Texas Tech discusses this booklet with his students
so that the students of Texas Tech know that it is a violation of university policy, of state
and federal law, to pirate copyrighted software.
And they also know that they are responsible for anything that goes in their individual computer
account.
And they read this booklet, and in most classes, they sign a document saying that they have
read this book, and understand it.
So we are attempting to educate students to what federal and state law is, and certainly
to educate students as to what university policy is, as concerns computer fraud, which is what
we're talking about.
Sorry, I just stepped out for a moment.
Well, I think a reporter is going to say something.
Do you like entering freshmen?
I mean, do you have to take a computer course in order to get one of these pamphlets?
Or, let's say I'm an entering freshman, and I have a computer I bring into my dorm room.
Am I not going to get this pamphlet?
You will if you want a VAX account.
Oh, I see.
In the VAX accounts, which are assigned through the APLC, the learning center in the library,
if you went in and signed up for an account, you would be given this booklet.
Now, what is the benefit for this VAX account?
I'm not familiar with that.
Well, if you wanted access to the university's mainframe computer.
If you only used your computer in your room to do term papers and to print them out, then
you wouldn't be on the VAX system and using university computing property in order to pirate
software or to get on to a network.
So, legally, they can patch into the university system through VAX?
Through opening an account.
Oh, okay.
Well, and each of you can get a copy of this, by the way.
And if you don't have time to stop by the office, I'll fax you a copy.
So, basically, these kids had an account where using the mainframe to pirate all this software
through an electronic bulletin board?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
This is a major nationwide, worldwide problem from an industry point of view with tremendous
losses in funds, tremendous losses of money.
The VAX account at the university is a way to get into numerous other research accounts
or internet, which is the, you get onto internet, you can talk to anybody else who is on internet
anywhere in the world, which these kids were talking to Belgium and Israel and Australia,
and they can do that just by this, thus avoiding long-distance phone calls.
But most of the people on internet, I mean on the VAX, are there legitimately for research
purposes.
They can go to Mayo and get a file if they're a med student.
And they also get one of these pamphlets if they get, like the Department of Engineering gives
out an account number just for that semester.
The professor would give it out so you can use the VAX.
Well, they also get one of those pamphlets that explains what the rules are, and the instructor
spends a good bit of time the first couple of classes going over computer etiquette, computer
rules.
Is this trail going to lead to any other schools out here in the state of Texas?
Well, there's several others that they were talking to, but we don't have any comment.
Nationwide, we don't have any comment on, say, A&M.
Would this be where the headquarters would have been of the operation?
No, no, no.
Just merely one of the outlying areas?
This is just one of the fingers.
The ends are one of the fingers out here.
How long had your investigation been going on since, until this occurred yesterday?
Well, as we started in May, for us, it essentially ended in July, when the kid, when we interviewed
him the first time.
Uh-huh.
University police processed him.
He was expelled from school, and we thought that, you know, give the kid a break.
Can you comment where the main operation is?
No, no.
There's so many of them.
It's not like there's one computer in the country that's masterminding this thing.
He could be a mastermind.
You could be a mastermind.
He could be.
He probably is a mastermind.
I'm sure he's got his own electronic bulletin board.
You're with the electronic bulletin boards here in town.
Me?
I'm with Connect Lubbock.
I write a monthly newsletter.
I'm just here to get information.
If you really have any details on what a bulletin board is, he'd be the guy who really could
explain it to you.
How many people were arrested?
Nobody was arrested.
Nobody.
There were three individuals interviewed, but we did not file any charges.
Uh, do you expect to?
There will be a grand jury in January.
Federal grand jury.
Uh, what type of punishment do they face on, uh, on the federal level?
I believe it's a ten-year, a ten-year felony for the computer fraud.
There's a copyright violation, infringements.
There's several numerous violations involved here, but essentially a ten-year felony.
Is that per offense?
Per offense.
Uh, would each piece of software be considered an offense?
Probably not, but that's a U.S. attorney decision.
When we go into the next room, you'll see, uh, a hell of a lot of stuff, and it's kind
of small, so why don't we just go in one at a time?
And that is how it went about in, uh, mid-December.
Uh, an actual press conference with the Secret Service.
Of course, um, it wasn't nearly as, as, uh, dramatic as the way we presented it here.
It's probably a lot, uh, they probably got a lot more words wrong.
Um, but, uh, we want to thank everybody for reading those ports.
Um, Fyber, what kind of comments, uh, do you have on, uh, on, on what you have witnessed
here on this, on this?
How many, how many things do you think they got wrong?
Well, uh.
Maybe I should ask how many things they got right.
Well, uh, if I had a highlighter pen, I'd make every page yellow.
Uh, I'd make every page black, actually, but, uh, I really couldn't do that.
I thought we had black on our side.
Well.
Black was ours.
It would be nice.
But, uh, the, the, the thing is, you have these Secret Service agents coming into college
campuses now, right?
And what is it that they're actually talking about?
They're talking about people copying programs?
And, uh, talking about ten years in jail?
Well, the way, the way I view this case, uh, is that, um, not long ago, the, uh, Software,
uh, Publishers Association, SPA, was able to, uh, to pass a law that says that, uh, someone
in possession of, I believe it was ten or more copyrighted pieces of software,
was, uh, subjected to be charged with a felony.
And I believe that, uh, this case in particular, in Lubbock, might just be a, uh, uh, uh, proving
grounds to, uh, try out this new law.
I see.
Well, uh, it's the kind of thing that, uh, that could happen in any part of the country
at any particular time.
Um, and, uh, I don't know, do you think it's, do you think it's any justification whatsoever
for, uh, for Secret Service agents to be bursting into college dormitories?
Uh, I mean, does this really seem like the kind of quote-unquote crime that, uh...
The Cold War is over.
They've got to find something to do with all the military and police.
Well, the Secret Service, this isn't in the, uh, NSA or the CIA or something like that.
This is, uh, you know, the people supposed to be protecting the president and, and the
Treasury Department and all that kind of thing.
College campuses?
Yeah, well, he did say, uh, $6,000 worth of, uh, software, so I guess that's...
Yeah, but that's, that's a very subjective term.
Yeah, obviously.
That's about what I usually carry in my pocket.
Yeah.
It's hard to, uh, really, uh, get that.
We have somebody on the phone, uh, with a, uh, a special message for us, um, and also
I should, uh, I should point out, uh, we've got, uh, Mr. French from, uh, from, from Texas.
Are you there, Mr. French?
Yes, I am.
Now, uh, he's been on the program a few times, and, uh, each time he's on the program, I mention
that this is somebody that I've met on the, uh, on, by hacking a voicemail system many,
many years ago, that we just kind of collided, two hackers sort of collided together, and this
is someone I've known for a long time, but I've never actually met.
Well, that, my friends, has changed.
I actually went down to Texas and met you face-to-face for the first time ever, and it
certainly was an exciting experience, um, and something that, um, I guess it happens a
lot in the radio world, because, you know, you hear people's voices before you actually
see their faces sometimes, uh, but, um, I think this is probably the longest time I've
gone without meeting somebody that, uh, I've known for so long, and it's, it was, it was
good to, uh, to actually see you.
Yes, I won't miss him.
Uh, now, um, you've been on the program.
We've been on the program a couple of times, and, um, you know, we're trying to, trying
to raise money here tonight, uh, for the radio station.
So far, it looks like we've raised $295.
You know, that's, that's good, and it came from people, you know, putting, putting, uh,
pledges together and adding things up and, and things like that, but, uh, it could be a
lot more.
It's supposed to be a lot more.
We're kind of behind schedule here.
Our number is 212-279-3400.
Um, Mr. French, do you have any, um, any, um, stations like WBAI down in, uh, your part
of Texas?
Yes, we have KERAFM 90.1, and they're running a pledge drive also.
At the same time, huh?
Yes.
Well, I doubt very many people will be, uh, well, be torn between the two stations, but,
um, uh, what, what kind of things do they do on that station?
Well, it's very similar to what you're doing.
They play them off a lot.
More tips.
We'll be taking phone calls later.
Uh, it's just the kind of thing that we do here at Off the Hook week after week, and we've
come a long way since we started.
Before there was a radio show like this in New York City, a lot of people didn't know
a lot of things about how their phones worked, about how their privacy was, was basically
on a billboard in various places, and anybody could get access to it.
People are learning how to protect themselves.
People are learning how not to get ripped off, and people are learning that hackers are
people just like them, people who are very curious.
Yeah, there can be evil hackers, but, uh, to be honest, I really haven't seen very many
of them, because I think most people are just caught up in the learning experience, and
when you're, when you're constantly learning things, you don't really have time for ulterior
motives.
I mean, maybe later you'll have time for that if you, if you learn evil things, perhaps,
but I really don't think it's going to, it's going to turn out that way.
212-279-3400, $70 pledge, you'll get the, uh, t-shirt, 2600 t-shirt, and you'll get
the, uh, magazine, a full year of 2600 magazine.
Mr. French, maybe you might want to say a word or two about the magazine.
Well, it's just full of all kinds of nice little tidbits of information.
Things, everything from, uh, a simple combination lock, shall we say, to a extreme toll switch type
thing. It's just full of, uh, it's packed full of facts about, uh, the way systems work,
shall we say, and security systems, and how they work.
Uh-huh. And it's not, it's not something to be, uh, some people have, have brought this
up, and I just want to make sure that they understand this. Some people are concerned
that if they get the magazine, they'll be on some kind of a list. Uh, let me tell you,
so many people, so many organizations, corporations, uh, phone companies, everybody wants to know what
people are learning, what people are thinking, what people are talking about. Uh, so, uh,
it's, it's not, it's not an elite, uh, list by any means of, of, of computer criminals or
anything like that. Uh, plus add to the fact that the list is never, ever, ever, never seen
by anybody outside of, uh, of the 2600 office. Uh, it's just not given to anybody. The only
people it's given to, of course, is, is the, uh, is the mailman when we mail things out, but
that's it. Um, and nobody else has access to it. It's kept in, uh, in password-protected
scrambled form, and, uh, people would give their lives before giving over the list. That's,
that's just the way it works, and hackers will like that. But, um, the magazine itself
has been coming out since 1984. It started out as, uh, as, I guess, kind of an underground
thing, but rapidly evolved into something a lot more important, something that's, uh, has
to do with the First Amendment. You know, speaking out, saying things that, uh, some people
don't want you to say, but you've got every right to say it nonetheless. We don't print
things that are illegal. We don't, uh, you know, print credit card numbers or passwords
or things that will get people into trouble. What we do print are ideas, methods, things
that will allow you to learn. 212-279-3400. Join the learning experience, because you'll be
doing it in so many different ways. You'll be getting the magazine, you'll be getting a
shirt, which is, you know, if you don't want the shirt, you can give it to somebody. You
can give the magazine to somebody. I'm sure everybody out there knows someone who's
into this. And obviously, you're into this, or you wouldn't be listening right now. Well,
actually, not entirely true. You might be tuning in right now to hear the news, which
is not on tonight, because we have a two-hour show that goes on until midnight, uh, because
we really need to raise the funds for WBAR so we can continue doing this kind of thing,
so we can continue bringing you the news, among many other programs. And this learning experience,
um, stretches over so many different spectrums. Uh, you'll be reading the magazine, you'll be
learning about what is going on, the new, um, new advances in technology, the new systems
that people are discovering, and you'll be asking a lot more interesting questions yourself.
You'll find yourself evolving with the times. And at the same time, you'll be sharing in
the learning experience of WBAI, which is a medium that allows something like Off the
Hook to exist.
Where else are you going to find this type of programming?
Not very many places in, uh, New York City, that's for sure. And, you know, it's a good
point, because, um, New York City has a fair share of alternative, uh, stations of various
kinds, but I have to say WBAI is probably the most alternative of them. I really can't think
of any other station that has as much time devoted to alternative ideas as WBAI. And that
goes not just for this city, but for most of the country, if not all of the country.
And there just simply aren't stations like this in other places. Now, WBAI is the only
station like it in New York City, the only station that a program like this could possibly
air on, because if we were to be on a commercial station, we'd be kicked off within a week because
of the nasty things we say about various, uh, companies. And if you know anything about
commercial radio, you know that's, those various companies that, uh, wind up pledging, if
you will. They pledge their money in return for your slavery, where you play their particular
commercial spots. And you listen to them when they say, you know, I don't think that
Emanuel Goldstein is quite kosher. I don't think he's, uh, you know, he's saying things
that, uh, are in the interest of corporate America. You know, I mean, telling people how
to, how to build a blue box, telling people how to, uh, defeat a PBX system, how to, how
to make a free phone call. We don't tell people these bits of information just so they can,
uh, you know, get, uh, get free phone calls or anything like that. We tell people how
the system works. And this is something that is public information, yet it's being kept
from you. They are not explaining how their system works. If you ask them questions, they
refuse to tell you. We have the right to know these things. And there are people out there
in the hacker world that know these things and they want to share the information. And
that's what we're all about is sharing information, letting you decide whether or not it's something
that is worthwhile to be interested in. 212-279-3400. You know, we got five phone calls on the line.
We might even have a bingo. We might even, I see a light out, but that might be the light
that, uh, that we never fixed around here because there's one phone light that doesn't
work. Um, but if you are getting a busy signal, please call in again because every person counts.
And we really mean that. It sounds like, you know, a catchphrase we keep going back up on
and saying, oh yeah, every person counts. But really it does because every pledge adds
up and that's how we got as far as we got now. And not just this pledge drive, but the
entire history of WBAI from the early sixties. Mr. French, do you know how WBAI started?
No, I sure don't.
Well, WBAI used to be, uh, I believe it was a Muzak station and WBAI stood for World Broadcasters
of America Incorporated. That's really what it stood for. A lot of people think it stands
for we beg at intervals, but no, that's not what it really stands for. It stands for World
Broadcasters of America Incorporated. And I believe I have this story right. I'm sure somebody
will run in and tell me if I'm wrong. Uh, one day the, uh, person who owned the radio
station, the Muzak station happened to listen to, um, a Pacifica station out on the, I believe
the West coast, maybe it was KPFA or KPFK. And he loved it so much. He heard alternative
ideas and he, he was so turned on by this that he called up Pacifica and he said, listen
guys, I've got a 50,000 watt radio station smack in the middle of the FM dial in New York
city. It's yours. All you have to do is promise me you'll never play a commercial. And you
know, they must've hung up on him about three or four times before they realized that he
was serious, that he wasn't some kind of, uh, some kind of crank that was calling them.
And I don't think you'll ever hear this program is brought to you by a grant from AT&T.
No, you will never, never hear that. A lot of, uh, public radio stations. I think most of
them now have underwriting, have corporate sponsorships. And I understand why they're
doing it because it's very hard to get by just on listener support. But here at WBAI,
that's what we're trying to do. We want to remain independent because look at what's
happening. And, and, you know, I respect national public radio. I respect the things that they're
trying to do, but take a good look. You don't hear much in the way of alternative music or
alternative thoughts other than the national programs that are broadcast. You don't hear
very much. You do hear some, but not as much as you usually do on, on true alternative radio
stations. What you hear instead are music blocks, things that come over the satellite, you know,
classical music, 24 hours a day or jazz, 24 hours a day, which is all fine and good, but
it's not alternative radio in my view. This is alternative radio. And the only way you can
keep alternative radio is to keep it in the hands of the people. 212-279-3400. Keep us in your hands
because if you let go of us, where do we go? We either get commercials from the corporations or
we get sponsorships and underwriting grants and things like that. And other little ways of
controlling what we put on the air. We can put on whatever you want us to put on as long as we stay
in case of the folks. This may frighten you people a little bit, but this has happened on more than
one occasion. If you people don't get high behind it and fork over some cash, you may turn this
station on someday and you'll hear something like Dr. Gene Scott in its place. Now, you brought up
an interesting point. Now, you've got, Mr. French has an incredible amount of receiving equipment,
both satellite and shortwave and all kinds of neat things. You told me something that shocked me and
my friends, listen carefully. We're not kidding here. And if what we're about to tell you can
happen, anything can happen. Radio Moscow. Radio Moscow. Remember them? The people in the Soviet
Union, the evil empire? Those people right now on Radio Moscow, do you know what they're playing?
They're playing a preacher from America. Dr. Gene Scott has how many hours of radio time?
Oh, he's on 24 hours a day on one frequency and he's on 10 hours a day on another frequency. So,
um... Radio Moscow. Dr. Gene Scott is on Radio Moscow. I just can't believe this still,
that he's actually broadcasting on a former Soviet propaganda station. A couple of years ago,
they would have said, American imperialist dogs, lay down your weaponry. And now it's Radio Moscow
presents Dr. Gene Scott. Send him money to help support this ministry. So, so basically it's whoever
has the money, has the power, has the satellites. Those people wind up controlling the entire
industry. Look at Ted Turner. He controls everything. He controls everything. I found that he owns my
town just the other day. He owns films. He owns TV stations. He owns TV networks, radios.
Who knows what else? He probably owns the moon. And, and I just don't know where it's going to end.
The thing is, power is a very scary thing. And you got to balance the power. You got to spread it
around. You got to put it in the hands of, of individual people like us. But once you,
once you give up that responsibility and say, oh, somebody else will do it, you're giving up more
than just, uh, you know, writing a check or paying a visa or a MasterCard bill. You're giving up
something a lot more precious than that. You're giving up a bit of freedom and you're letting
somebody else do something for you. Imagine if you gave up your vote as easily. Imagine if you said to
someone, you know, I'm not going to vote. I'll just give my vote to Exxon. Okay. I'll let them vote for me.
Would you do that? You wouldn't do that because a vote is something that comes from
your mind, comes from, come within. It's the same thing here. This is a vote. Your call is a vote
for us. And every vote counts. 212-279-3400. Remember a little while ago, and it was only about a half
hour ago, I said we had $295. Well, now we have 765. All right. Yeah. So that happened from the people
calling in from individual people like you. Our goal is to make $1,000. Okay. We're not that far
away. 212-279-3400. Help us make the goal. We take Visa. We take American, uh, no, we don't take
American Express. I'm sorry. Sorry. Write that from the record. We take Visa. We take MasterCard. I don't
know why we don't take the others, but that's just the way it is. I think it's because they charged a lot
of money or something. But 212-279-3400. Visa, MasterCard, and, um, however else you want to
pay, whether it's by check or, or, or you want to run into the studio, uh, studio and hand it to us
in person. That's fine too. 212-279-3400. There's two callers on the line. Let's, uh, bring that up.
Let's make another bingo. So there's a lot of people, uh, when frenetic activity down there in
the tally room, um, I don't know if we can bring them up. If, um, no, we were wired in before we could
hear all the chaotic sounds down there, but I don't think that's, that's plugged in right now.
212-279-3400. Let's, uh, bring us over the top so that this particular radio station, this particular
radio program can thrive and continue because there's no reason why we can't continue forever
doing this kind of thing. We see a lot of changes. We see a Democrat in the White House now for the
first time in, in 12 years. Uh, we see a new mood coming out over the country and I, I felt like I was
in a really good place for that to be happening. I was in Austin, Texas, which was a very, uh, uh,
invigorating town. It filled me with all kinds of new ideas and a lot of spirit, a lot of young
spirit, not just from young people though. You know, it's got that kind of spirit to it. Uh,
Mr. French, you're familiar with Austin, right? Oh, certainly. Yeah. Now it's, it's an unusual place
right there in the middle of Texas. I don't really know how it happened. I guess it's mostly because
of the university there, but it's kind of like a beacon of light. And I like to think that this
radio station is also a beacon of light in another way. But, uh, you know, you gotta keep
the beacons going. You gotta keep adding to them and keeping them strong. And that's all
we're asking you to do here. We're not getting anything personally out of this. We don't get
a commission for, for bringing in the most money. We just get the satisfaction of knowing
that we've done the best we can do. Uh, now most times, most weeks of the year, we get that
satisfaction by bringing you the best programming we can, by, by telling you things that nobody else
can, can find out by getting interesting guests and, and providing you with, uh, fascinating
tidbits of information. On this particular week, though, we have to do it in a slightly
different way. We have to ask for your help, for your support so that we can maintain the
strength and keep going. 212-279-3400. Let's take a quick look at that, um, that newspaper
article from yesterday's New York Times so we can, uh, show you some, some things that the
media is up to. And, Mr. French, you probably haven't heard this, uh, because, uh, I don't
think you get the New York Times out there, do you? Uh, it's available here, but I don't
personally get it. Yeah, actually, even if you had gotten it, uh, I don't think this
made the national edition. Uh, this is an article called Going Undercover in the Computer Underworld.
Law enforcement, uh, officers quietly tap into the illegal activities of cyberspace, which
is the cool way of, uh, talking about computer activities. Uh, he patrols the back alleys of
cyberspace at the edge of the electronic frontier. Traveling on beams of electrons, he is invisible,
formless, the ultimate undercover agent. He's fracker-tracker of the high-tech crime network.
But don't look for him in comic books or the video store, he's real. His beat takes in the
thousands of computer bulletin boards where anyone with a computer, a modem, and a phone
can dial up and exchange information, or even start a new bulletin board. Usually the subject
is as innocuous as a computer game program, a recipe, or pet grooming, but increasingly, the
authorities say. The bulletin boards have become underground marketplaces for stolen telephone
access codes and credit card numbers, along with child pornography and other contraband.
Now, law enforcement agencies have stepped up counterattacks, including computer-based
stings. That's the passion of fracker-tracker, an organized crime investigator, founder of a
network of police computer buffs that now spans 28 states, and self-proclaimed scourge of
hackers who break into computer networks, freakers who steal telephone services, and
frackers who are a combination of both. They made up all these words. I mean, no one else
has ever heard these words before. In his newsletter called FBI, which stands for
find them, bust them, incarcerate them, he warned, every move you make, every breath you
take, we'll be watching you. That's a slight bit there.
Yeah, that's copyright infringement. Yeah, that's copyright infringement, and I understand
the police, the real police, the rock band, the police, are going to file some sort of
suit there. But regardless, I don't know, Fiber, what do you think of the journalistic integrity
of the way this article is reading?
Well, I think it demonstrates the cluelessness that we see all too often in media journalists
that just seem to pop out of nowhere, literally fall from the sky, and write these articles about
nonsense, pretty much.
You're right about that, because the vast majority of reporters I've talked to about
this kind of thing always start off by saying, you know, I don't know anything about this
subject. Can you teach me everything there is to know so I can write an article that millions
of people are going to read? And I usually whimper in the corner at that point, because
how in God's name are you going to educate somebody on something so complex in such a short
period of time? And usually I have until 5 o'clock to tell them everything there is to
know to write a decent article. And of course, even if they do learn everything, they're
going to have to get it by their editor, who, by the way, doesn't know anything about computers.
You know, it's a sad cycle there.
Well, it's funny that they don't seem to have any trouble latching on to the simple-minded
illegalities of using calling cards and things of that nature and focusing their story in
on that. And that's pretty much the entire slant of the story.
Yeah. And if you would read this article, you get the impression that computer hackers
do nothing but steal credit cards and buy things illegally and just make free phone calls
and nothing else, you know, no learning experience, no eagerness to figure out new ways of doing
things, no real curiosity, no redeeming qualities whatsoever. I don't know why these articles keep
coming out. I really don't. It seems like there would be an end to them at some point,
you know. Somebody would say, okay, let's see what's really going on here. But apparently
they sell newspapers. Apparently there's a kind of a, I don't know, some sort of a cycle
that they just fall into and they can't get out of.
Well, as long as you have these made-up comic book-style characters like our friend Mr.
Fracker Tracker, was it?
Fracker Tracker, yeah.
I guess there'll always be some sort of a demand for these type of stories. It sort of fills
a niche in society's cynicism.
Now, in a very prominent part of the article, I don't know if the picture, it just says the
bulletin boards, the computer bulletin boards have become underground marketplaces for stolen
telephone access codes and credit card numbers as well as child pornography. Now, that particular
phrase right there, I'm going to read it again. Listen carefully and pretend you know nothing
about computer bulletin boards. The bulletin boards have become underground marketplaces for
stolen telephone access codes and credit card numbers as well as child pornography.
But what is any person going to do upon hearing something like that? They're going to say,
well, get rid of the bulletin boards then. They're obviously evil. They're all evil. They
must be destroyed. Well, that's not what bulletin boards are all about at all. Yes, there might
be bulletin boards that have illegal things on them. There might be bulletin boards run by
child pornographers or Nazis or Klansmen or anything like that. But that's not what bulletin boards
are. Bulletin boards are simply a tool that people use. I mean, you're not going to outlaw
computers because bulletin boards use computers or evil people use computers. You're not going
to outlaw cars. But guess what? Child pornographers drive cars. People who steal telephone access
codes drive cars too. These cars are becoming passenger carrying posts for these people.
I hear many of them wear shoes too.
Shoes? Shoes? Cars? Oh, what's going to happen here? I mean, we have to make some sacrifices and
get rid of these things. You have to look at this in logic, logically. And a lot of people
are not doing that. And the reason they're not doing that is because they haven't taken
that first step and found out what the thing is that they're talking about in the first
place. They're depending on the newspapers to educate them. And that's always a big mistake.
Mr. French, do you have articles like that out in Texas often?
Oh, yes. They come out every so often. It's just extreme paranoia. The media likes to whip
it up too, I'm sure.
And of course, if you ever watch local TV news, that is the worst. You always get 100% slant
against individual hacker types because they're the ones that are different. They're the ones
that are evil. Now, okay, you don't have to be a hacker to appreciate this. Imagine people
of other walks of life, ethnic groups or alternative lifestyles of various sorts. You know what it's
like to be oppressed. You know what it's like to have people come down on you and think that
you're something that you're not and think you're an evil influence and all that. It's the same
ignorance. The same ignorance with a different name. So if you believe in fighting one, you have
to believe in fighting them all. That's as simple as it can possibly get. That's why this radio
station is a hotbed of activity for those kind of subjects. That's why we all flock to a place
like this because this is where we can speak freely. This is where we can educate people. This is where
we can have feedback, take phone calls and hear what other people have to say. And that's why it's
important to support a place like this. No matter what your background, all you need is the desire
to keep the dialogue open, to keep freedom ringing its liberty bells throughout this country or
throughout the world. You know, I don't necessarily think the country is the most important thing. I
think the world is something that we need to pay increasing attention to because we're all global
citizens. 212-279-3400. We're up to, gosh, you know, I can't tell if that's an eight or a nine.
We're either up to $800 or $900. $950. Oh, I just went up to $50. It's either a nine or an eight. I'm not
sure. If we had more money here, we'd be able to get a digital display where you could tell if it
was an eight or a nine. But that's not important. The important thing is that we get some more phone
calls at 212-279-3400 so that this particular radio station can keep going and keep spreading the
word of various things. Mr. French, do you have to go?
I'll need to go at approximately 1130.
Okay. Well, just speak up at that point and we'll take some phone calls at that point, too.
Unfortunately, I can't give out the number because the line is full. It's 212-279-34007, but
it's ringing. It's been ringing now for the last hour and you won't be able to get through.
But you can console yourself by calling up our pledge line and we'll be more grateful to you if
you do that. In fact, the most amazing sacrifice would be if somebody was calling these bottom
three lines here for the last hour and they hung up to call the pledge line and pledge
money instead. You know, that would be the most amazing thing. But it's just a thought.
212-279-3400. Now, Fiverr, you have some updates for us on the Steve Jackson trial. Let's just,
I guess this really should have been done a long time ago because it's probably the most
important news item. But it's something that we need to, oh, we have names? Great. Thank you.
Let's do this first. These are thank yous to people that have called in. I want to thank
Matthias from the Bronx for his generous pledge. Michael from Shrewsbury, New Jersey? Shrewsbury,
New Jersey. Oh, that's a great place. And the 908 area code. Do you remember when there
wasn't the 908 area code? Sure do. That's a brand new one. Okay. We have, I don't want
to read, I don't want to read last names here because sometimes people don't like their last
names right over the air. And this person just gave an initial. So I want to thank A. A
from Queens for his generous or her generous donation to the radio station. And many people
like a, keep this radio station going. Thank you very much. Chris from Brooklyn. Thank
you also. Michael from Harrison, New York. Again, thanks for your generous donation. And
Kevin. Kevin, how are you? From Balford, New Jersey. It's been a while since I heard from
you. Kevin, thanks for calling in. And thanks for your very generous donation. Please join
these people. Help us out. These people have, it's a nine. Okay. Thank you very much. I'm
told that that thing that could have been an eight or a nine is actually a nine. So we've
got $950 to our credit. We're only $50 away from breaking a thousand. So help us get over
that goal. 212-279-3400. Join the people that we just thanked now because they're the ones
that got us to where we are. And they join the other people that got us to where we are
today and over the years and all that kind of thing. It's really pretty amazing. Now,
to get to Steve Jackson. Steve Jackson is a guy I spent some time with in Austin when
I went down there. In fact, I went down there to see his trial. He was suing the Secret Service.
A couple of years ago, the Secret Service raided Steve Jackson games. And it wasn't in the media.
It wasn't reported on TV stations or radio programs. It was reported here, though. Definitely
was reported on WBAI. A lot of people heard about it through WBAI. The Village Voice did something
on it. And people found out about it through these particular media outlets. And these
media outlets kind of helped each other along with the story. Well, it turned out that what
the Secret Service was looking for was never found. And Steve Jackson was nearly put out
of business because of their raid in the spring of 1990. He publishes various games and other
things. He's since put out a couple of games, including one that has to do with the actual
raid called Hacker. But the serious side of the story was that he was very nearly put
out of business. He had one game that was about to be released, or actually a book, that was
seized and referred to as a manual for computer crime. Of course, that was never to be the
case. It was all returned. Actually, most of it was returned. Not all of his equipment
ever made it back to him. And a lot of it was damaged in some way. So Steve Jackson has taken
the Secret Service to court. He is suing them. It's the first time someone has ever done
this. It's another example of individuals fighting back for their rights. Hopefully,
it's the first of many.
The trial started this week. Unfortunately, I missed the trial. I went down there last
week because it was supposed to start last week. Then they postponed it a week. And
well, it got started yesterday. Now, Fiber, you've got some updates on it.
Yeah, this just in.
Well, no, actually, this has been here for about an hour and a half.
Just to make it sound exciting.
But this just in. I bet it wasn't on the news tonight. So it's just in for everybody
in New York.
Well, I think it's worth noting beforehand that while Steve Jackson is a game publisher,
I find that a lot of people that I talk to are confused. He's not a computer game or computer
software publisher. He's a role-playing game publisher.
I got to tell you, when I was down there, this is a Steve Jackson quote. He said, and
I heard him very clearly, he said, I hate computers. He meant it, too, because computers
are running his office. He has to do desktop publishing and all that. And computers are
very temperamental. And he's not really a computer person. He's into games. He's into
publishing. And I just thought people should know that. He's not even a hacker, really, in
the true sense of the word. I don't consider him to be that kind of a hacker. But he's a
hacker in another sense of the word. But yeah, he hates computers.
Okay, this is the latest update. And it was posted on the well, the Whole Earth Electronic
Link, by an attorney for the Electronic Frontier Foundation by the name of Sherry Steele. And
EFF has been monitoring this case very closely.
Anyways, they said that the Steve Jackson's, Steve Jackson Games case finally got underway
a little after one in the afternoon. And there were some settlement efforts originally, but it
turned out that the attorneys for the government couldn't get approval from Washington for the
terms necessary. And they commend attorneys Jim George and Pete Kennedy, who were working on Steve
Jackson Games' behalf, saying that they did a terrific job in representing the plaintiffs.
And they said that as far as their methods go, they sequestered all witnesses, so they couldn't hear
each other's stories in attempts to make them match. They first called Tim Foley, Agent Tim Foley of the
Secret Service, as the first witness. And it says they asked him lots of questions about his knowledge
at the time of the raid. And he testified that he didn't know whether Frack, with the quote-unquote
evil E911 document, had been sent to Steve Jackson Games. He also said that he knew that email was on
the menu of the BBS, implying that there was email on the system at the time of the seizure,
computer, although he denied actually knowing if there was email on the system. And he denied ever
making the statement that GURPS Cyberpunk, the name of the role-playing game, was in fact a handbook
for a computer crime. So I guess that's outright perjury, isn't it?
Sounds like a lot of confusion on their part there.
I think that's a good deal of perjury right there.
This is the Secret Service.
Yeah, this is Agent Tim Foley.
Okay.
And he claims he wouldn't give Steve Jackson copies of anything from his computer that
ran the BBS. Just for those who don't know, Steve Jackson had a BBS for people who played
his role-playing games to discuss just different things about the games themselves and special
interest groups that were to focus around certain games. Anyway, he claims that he wouldn't
give him anything from the machine that ran the BBS because he was afraid it might have
been booby-trapped. And he also didn't know that Congress had passed any laws giving special
protection during searches to publishers. Then it says that the next person they called
was Larry Kutori, police officer at the University of Texas. And it says that the original affidavit
filed by Agent Tim Foley of the Secret Service to support the search warrant stated that Kutori
provided the Secret Service with Lloyd Blankenship's address and place of business. Now Lloyd, who's
an employee of Steve Jackson Games, is the main author of the GURPS cyberpunk book. Kutori
insisted that he didn't remember doing that and agreed with Pete Kennedy, one of Steve Jackson
games attorney, as he proved that he couldn't have known anything about Blankenship to pass
on. And they say that was a good moment in the questioning. Now Agent Barbara Golden, also
of the Secret Service, in charge of the search on site, Agent Foley was not on site at the time
of the search. She was called next. She started out by admitting that she didn't know anything
about computers. It's nice to have someone like that on site at a raid, isn't it?
She didn't know anything about computers. Nothing about computers. And she's in charge
of a computer raid. And she's in charge of the raid, yes. That's like, imagine somebody
raiding an organized crime hotbed not knowing anything about crime, or guns, or anything
like that. I don't know. Well, she didn't need to know anything because, incidentally, like
most other raids, she had telephone company people conducting the search under her supervision.
So they basically said, what was what? And she said, yay or nay. She also didn't know
there was a special law for publishers regarding searches. And this is an interesting...
Did anybody know there was a law for publishers?
I don't think any of the agents knew this.
And they take the phone company people as, you know, these unbiased saints.
Yeah, they seem to be the ones calling the shots.
Considering they're the ones that, you know, very often are the ones trying to prosecute
people for various infringements of their particular rights of royalty, this doesn't seem right,
you know? This doesn't seem right at all.
Something's wrong there. And it's worth noting, she was the one who decided to take the entire
BBS. We figured someone had to put their foot down and say, let's just take everything.
But she didn't even check to see what the system contained. Once she completed the inventory
of what was taken, she was no longer involved with the case. And our hero Steve Jackson was
called next. And he gave a demonstration of the BBS as it was returned to him by the Secret
Service that the judge seemed to really enjoy, which is good. He testified that the Secret
Service took three computers, one was completely disassembled, and they took the parts, two
hard drives, and more than 300 floppy disks. And that's where it stood today. And Steve's
testimony will continue tomorrow morning.
That's something. I wish that was on Court TV, because I'd like to see the reaction and
the questioning as it takes place. But it does sound like some good points are being made.
And that's really all that matters, is that people hear this. I don't know what kind of
media coverage there's been. I've seen nil, to be honest. But it seems to me that people
are at last beginning to fight back and say something. Say, this is what really happened.
This is how it went down. We'll probably have a result of this trial by next week.
Hopefully it'll turn out in Mr. Jackson's favor.
And if it does, that's a very good indication for the way things may go. Maybe there won't
be any more of these Secret Service raids. Maybe the Secret Service will be reassigned to
other duties that fit them a little bit better than chasing after teenage kids and publishers
and people that are simply expressing themselves in ways they may not agree with, but in ways
that are 100% protected and 100% correct as far as legality goes.
Well, it may be a lot to hope for, but we can still hope.
I'm an optimistic kind of person. Traveling across Texas in the last couple of weeks, I was
ready to expect just about anything. I was ready to be attacked and strung up and yelled
at and various things. But I'll tell you, there wasn't a single bad incident. I found the people
of Texas to be amazing people and very open and kind. I think they kind of represent what
most people in the world really are. In the vast majority of cases, all the trouble in the
world comes from, the hatred, the bigotry, the ignorance, the fear of a relatively small
group of people. But it spreads, you know? The people that speak the loudest and that talk
the most, they infiltrate the minds of others. Other people who ordinarily would be perfectly
normal, perfectly friendly, perfectly open to just about anything you have to say.
I mean, you know, wearing tie-dye shirts and, you know, t-shirts with all kinds of controversial
messages on them. Because I don't believe really in changing too much for other people.
I believe in expressing myself for the person I am. And I'm ready for all kinds of things
that may happen as a result of that. But in most cases, the vast majority of cases, people
are open and really all people want is a little respect, a little consideration. And if you give
that to them, there really isn't a problem. Not to say that there are no problems. There certainly
are. But I think if we realize that a lot of people can be reached, a lot of people can be
changed, a lot of people are open. You come at things with a much more hopeful approach and you
might actually change things. You might actually see things change in your lifetime. Something to
think about. And you do have the opportunity to change things now, to make things a little
bit better for us by calling us at 212-279-3400. We're into our last half hour. In fact, we only
have about 25 minutes left. The program is off the hook. We're usually on only from 10 o'clock
to 11 o'clock on Wednesdays. But we're on for a special segment this night because it's
fundraising night. Fundraising week, actually. Fundraising last three weeks. But we're doing
that because we need to do it. We're not doing it because we enjoy this. Although, excuse
me, my voice is giving out. It can be fun talking to people and seeing all the people that come
up for volunteer work because they're making sacrifices of their own to do this. And it's
fun for everybody, actually, because the radio station is a fun place to be. It's fun to
be able to express yourself and to hear what other people have to say. In fact, let's go
back to the phones and take some phone calls in just a moment. But first, let me give out
the phone number for the pledge and the information for people pledging. 212-279-3400. For a $70
pledge, you'll get a full year. And this is in addition to all the BAI paraphernalia you'll
get, which is the folio that tells you all the radio programs that are on. Any pledge will
get that. But for a $70 pledge, you'll get a full year of 2600 Magazine, the Hacker Quarterly,
as well as a 2600 Hacker t-shirt, which is made of good quality shirt material and is white
lettering on black background. Got nothing but compliments, rave reviews from all over
the world. People are starting to wear this. And in fact, we've had to order it three different
times. You have to have three separate shipments come in. And boy, those shipments take up
a lot of space, let me tell you that. 212-279-3400. Give us a call. Take part in this particular
offer because at midnight it's not going to be an offer anymore. And we're not doing this
again because this is the last week of pledge drive activity. 212-279-3400. Join the people
that have already called in and help make WBAI strong. Help keep us strong because we are
a 50,000 watt radio station in the middle of the FM dial. That's good. It's very good that
we're able to reach you. We're able to reach New Jersey, parts of upstate New York, not
many parts of upstate New York, but Westchester and places like that. Connecticut, Long Island,
and of course Manhattan and Staten Island and those kind of places. That's good that we
can do that. But it's also bad because to have a 50,000 watt radio station and to have
an antenna on top of the Empire State Building, you've got a tremendous amount of expenses.
On top of the expenses for keeping the station itself going, for keeping the equipment in
working order. On top of the enormous phone bills we get for calling people all over the
world. These aren't personal calls, by the way. These are interviews with world leaders,
with people in the industry of telecommunications and computers. Whatever program you listen to
involves phone work at some point. And the producers of radio programs here do not get paid
for their work. That's something very important to point out. They do it out of dedication. They
do it because they want to get alternative views out. They do it because they want to educate
people and make radio in New York a little bit better. That's where the money goes. Doesn't
go to expense accounts, doesn't go to limousines, doesn't go to carpeting, doesn't go to air
conditioning, doesn't go to any of that. And that's what other radio stations spend their
money on. And they're welcome to do that because that's the business they're in. They're in the
commercial radio business. We're not. We're non-commercial. We're the only non-commercial
radio station that has this philosophy in New York City. We don't accept grants from corporations.
We don't have live simulcast for hours at a time from the satellite. We have local programming,
alternative local programming, 24 hours a day. And we complement that with things off satellites and
various news sources. But we never take the local angle out of it. There's always somebody in this
radio station working, doing something. And if you go to the more quote-unquote successful
radio stations, you know, the successful non-commercial radio stations, you find that
their success and the amount of money that comes into the station is directly proportional to the
number of, adversely proportional actually, to the number of people that work there. The less people
there, the better they seem to do. The less programs they have, the more money comes in from
the corporations and endowments and all that kind of thing. As long as they just tune to the satellite
and leave it there and don't touch that dial, well, they'll be assured of safe funding for the next
year. Well, we don't really get safe funding here. We rely on our listeners. I guess that's safe enough
for most of us that work around here. Because if we don't please our listeners, we're not doing our
job. And obviously, there's people out there that want to hear the kinds of things that we broadcast.
Here's a bit of information. A bit of the kind of information you can only get on WBAI.
You may have heard over the past couple of days how various people in government are getting all
these phone calls concerning the lifting of the gay ban in the military. And I think Colin Powell's
office released a statement saying, well, we got 700 phone calls saying don't lift the ban and only
23 people saying they wanted to lift the ban. And that's all fine and good. You know, people have
the right to call in and express their opinion. But the one thing you don't get from other media sources
is how? How do I express my opinion? Well, we can tell you how. It's very simple. Got a pen? Okay,
here are some phone numbers. Express your opinion. I'm not telling you how to express your opinion. I'm
not telling you what to say. That's up to you. That's always up to you. The White House comment line,
area code 202-456-1111, the Senate switchboard, 202-224-3121, the Pentagon, 703-697-5737, or Colin Powell
himself, 703-697-9121. Be interesting to see what they say now. I'll give out those numbers one more
time. White House comment line, 202-456-1111, Senate switchboard, 202-224-3121, the Pentagon,
703-697-5737, Colin Powell, 703-697-9121. Just one of the many bits of information that we bring to
you. It's not particularly hard to obtain this information, but for most radio stations,
most media outlets, it's incredibly hard to give it out. 212-279-3400. Help us out. Invest in WBAI
and receive our thanks and also our material goods that we have donated to the radio station here
for $70, a subscription to the Hacker Quarterly, 2600 Magazine, and a 2600 T-shirt,
as well as WBAI things. But any pledge is appreciated. Any pledge will get you the WBAI
folio for a full year. 212-279-3400. Remember, we do take Visa and MasterCard,
so if you can only pay a dollar a month or whatever it is they charge, you can do that. You can work it
out with them. All right, let's take a couple of phone calls and see who's out there.
Good evening. You're on Off the Hook. Anybody there? Okay, let's try this one. Good evening.
You're on Off the Hook. Hi. How are you doing? Good. I was just down in Texas. I was in Dallas.
Really? I was in Dallas, too. Did you go on top of that little round building? I saw it,
but I didn't go on top of it. Did you ever see the Galleria? What's that, a mall? It's a big
mall with an ice skating rink. I went to a mall in Austin with an ice skating rink. Well, what I did
was I went to Texas, and then I drove through Louisiana and went up to Arkansas and came
back to Dallas. It's great to drive around, you know? That's what I did. Yeah, driving
around America is great. And then, you know, I found something interesting in Dallas. There's
a TGI Fridays in Dallas that they had this phone where you could call cabs on. It's a regular
phone. If you thought Chemical Bank was there with them putting phones in every single bank
and we could just walk in and make free phone calls, it's probably only in this location.
You walk in, there's this line where you can make phone calls to cabs, and we could just
walk in. I made long distance calls on it. Well, I don't know if you want to incriminate
yourself on the... Well, no, I just want to say that. The highlight of my trip was I went
to IntelliCall, the cold car company. You went all the way down to Texas just to...
Well, actually, no. I didn't go only for that, but actually, my sister works for the airline,
so she invited me down to see her friend. Oh, okay. Okay. So, since I was in Dallas,
since they're in Dallas, I thought, hey, well, IntelliCall's in Dallas.
I didn't know that. I didn't know that. I would have dropped by and given them a piece
of my mind.
Yeah, totally. They gave me a lot of information, which I'm going to give to you in the next 2600
meeting.
Okay.
Well, let me just give you some of what I have. They said that the four tones that cold
cuts let out...
Those four tones? When you call up and you hear the four...
There's thank you in the four tones. Do you know what that means?
Yeah. What does that mean?
That's to signal a computer. That's why they're silver box tones. It's to signal a computer.
It's saying, thank you, as in thank you, computer, for calling. Do-do-do-do. And the computer
is supposed to respond to that. The main computer that's trying to call the phone for information
or whatever.
So, okay. The computer hears those four tones. Now, is this a computer that then uses a
carrier tone?
Yeah.
Interesting. So, that would explain why hackers are never able to break the code.
Yeah. And they say that COs have different tones. That's why sometimes you lose money
in some intercepted calls.
COs have different tones. Well, I'm not going to even listen to it.
Well, we won't get into that.
Yeah.
I don't know what they're trying to say.
Do you know what IntelliCore said? I told them about that scam with the collect calls
that they say press one, two, three, five. They said, oh, well, what if you want to call
your answering machine? You're going to probably want it to accept collect calls because you
want to retrieve your messages.
You know, that's a particularly sore point with me because I got my phone bill today.
And guess what? There's a whole lot of other phone calls from people calling my answering
machine collect from a cocot. And these sleazy cocots, they say, press one to reject this
call. Otherwise, stay on.
And of course, my answering machine stays on.
I got a couple more third-member calls, but that's not what I'm angry about right now.
I'm angry about those because they just do not fix these machines.
Yeah, I know.
They must make them tons of money from poor unsuspecting people and fax machines and answering
machines that accept collect calls. It's criminal.
Did you know that the reason why the cocot's coin slot and coin return is on another side
is for patent reasons?
Is that so?
Yeah.
That's an interesting thought.
It's, you know, because they don't want to make it look the same because they don't
want to, like, sort of patent infringement.
But it does look the same. It looks exactly the same. That's the only thing that looks
different is the coin return is on the other side.
You know what I saw at the airport, this big computer thing? Like, I used my credit card,
my Visa card, to make a call. But I used it, and it dialed zero to your e-code and number,
and then when I heard the bong AT&T, it went silent. And then I heard, thank you for using
AT&T, as if I dialed a credit card number. Is it dialing my Visa card number, or what is it
dialing?
I'd have to, I'd have to play with that. Bring it to the meeting. We'll, we'll play
with it.
Uh, well, bring what to the meeting? It's an AT&T special phone. It's a, it's a...
Oh. Oh, it's not, this doesn't work from all pay phones.
No, no, no, it's not a pay phone.
Oh, it's not a pay phone.
It's a special AT&T pay phone where you insert your credit card.
Uh-huh. Okay, well, where did you see this?
In the airport.
Oh, it's only in an airport. Yeah, I saw phones like that. I saw phones like that,
but I didn't, I didn't have time to play with them. I wish I could have.
Yeah, I mean, my flight was like, I was sort of rushing for my flight, so.
Uh-huh. I did use a phone on an airplane, though, as I was flying in the airplane with
a credit card.
I knew you were there. They don't have phones on the plane. I wish they did.
They had, they had a phone on virtually every seat.
Seat, yeah. How do they have different frequencies for every seat?
I don't, I don't really know how they, how they worked. A lot of times, though, the calls
didn't go through, and a lot of times, they were of lousy sound quality, but, uh, that's
just the way it was. Listen, we're going to have to go to another phone call.
Okay. So, we'll, uh...
Well, I'll see you at the 2600 meeting, I guess. I'll bring you a lot of things that
IntelliCall gave me.
Okay, I'll look forward to it.
Okay.
Take care.
Bye.
Speaking of the 2600 meeting, glad he reminded me. There is a 2600 meeting, not this Friday, right?
It's the Friday after that. Yeah, because this Friday won't be February yet. Always the
first Friday of the month, and it's taking place all over the place now. The local one
is in, uh, here in New York City at the CityCore Center, which is on 53rd Street between Lexington
and 3rd Avenue. No, it's not in an office or anything like that. No formal attire required.
It's basically a bunch of people that just sort of hang out in a mall-type setting. You come
in, you see people hanging around pay phones and, and talking in various clusters. That's
us. That's the hacker world. And it takes place, uh, starting at around 5 p.m. and going
till around 8 at the CityCore Center on the first Friday of every month. And it's taking
place throughout the country at, uh, various cities. In fact, we're going to have some new
cities, which we'll announce next week. But one that we will announce this week, because
it's just so cool, is, uh, the first official 2600 meeting in Germany on February 5th, 1993,
6 p.m. till 9 p.m. after that at other locations, and thereafter every first Friday of the month.
I'm reading from the official press release of the German 2600 meeting. Uh, this will be
taking place in Munich, Germany, at the, uh, Hauptbahnhof, which is central station, on the
first floor at Burger King and the pay phones. Incredible, isn't it? At Burger King and the
pay phones in Germany. By the, uh, so just to, just to have an aside here for a moment. Do you
know in Austin, Texas, they have something called a mustard whopper? Yeah, a mustard, it's really
good. It really is. You give me that look, but it's really good. Mustard whoppers. They don't have
them anywhere else, because I went to Phoenix, and I tried to get one there, and they had never heard
of it, and I caused a whole big commotion. And what they finally wound up doing was putting
mustard on a whopper, and it just was not the same. All these regional things in this
country are, are amazing. Mustard whoppers. Not kidding. And they discontinued twisty
fries, too. I was very upset to hear about that. Anyway, to get back to Germany, Germany
and the German Burger King, which, by the way, they sell beer in a German Burger King, I'll
have you know. Um, okay, how much to go to the 2600 meeting in Germany? It is absolutely
free of charge. Everyone can come. No password required. What's going to happen? Distribution
of the new 2600 issue. Exchange of information. Meeting elite people of the scene. Sightseeing
tour. Past the, uh, Fernmelndimt. I don't really know what that is. And then there's this word
FRHR period, which, of course, stands for something, but I don't know, not knowing German what it
means. Uh, V, uh, Gravenruth's office, a row of 27 pay phones at Karlsplatz and other
spots. Uh, also dinner with Burger King's delicious food. Within, uh, within one minute walking
distance, there are over 50 pay phones, coins, phone cards, credit cards, a fax using credit
cards, callable pay phones. Um, we'll give you the numbers in a moment. A bank with currency
exchange open till 11 PM. Also cinemas hooker hooker. I'll get it out. Cinemas hookers, public
transport, cabs, and much more at 11 PM. German time. The East coast, 2600 meetings will start
in New York, DC and other places. Of course we will have live teleconferences. And at 2 AM
the Los Angeles and San Francisco meetings start with live teleconferences too. They really get
into it in, in Germany. What else? If you take the S-Bahn from Hauptbahnhof and go one station,
which is just one minute, you'll reach Hackerbrock, which, uh, which is the Hacker Bridge. Of course,
this is a perfect place to take souvenir pictures. There are also lots of places where you can taste
the Hacker Shore beer, which is brewed in Munich, which I have had. I've had it here in the United
States. Um, if you have any questions, comments, suggestions, or just want to tell us that, uh,
you're going to drop by. You can send email to 2600 at sectech.com. I'll spell this out because I
can't pronounce the words. 2600-2600 at sign S-E-C-T-E-C dot H-A-N-S-E dot D-E. D-E meaning
Deutschland, Germany. Give that address one more time. 2600 at S-E-C-T-E-C dot H-A-N-S-E dot D-E.
If you don't have internet access, you can call our voice mailbox at, uh, well, this is, um,
city code 1. Of course, the country code for Germany is 49, so you'd have to dial 01149,
and then, uh, 1, I believe. I believe that's right. 904-366-4431. Actually, that doesn't sound
right to me. It sounds like there's too many numbers there. Uh, you also receive up-to-date
information about the events going on at the meeting. You can, uh, reach the German 2600 meeting
at these payphone numbers. City code 89591835. So you would dial 0114989591835. Or city code 8958541
through 545. Uh, with the last numbers, you have to tell the operator to put you through.
The first number should work directly. Uh, we've scanned many places for callable payphones,
but you won't find two payphones in Munich, which are both reachable from the outside and
closer than 100 meters to each other. And, uh, that's just the way of, of life, I suppose.
Okay, that's the first, uh, 2600 hacker meeting in, uh, in Germany. It's really, uh, really getting
pretty dangerous, isn't it? Spreading throughout the, uh, the entire planet. Okay, let's, uh, take
another phone call. And, uh, again, we only have five minutes left. Let's get some phone calls. Let's
get some, uh, some pledges coming in from those of you that have not yet pledged. I know there's people
out there, and if you hesitate much longer, you will forever lose your chance to pledge and receive
the 2600 t-shirt and the 2600 magazine for a full year for pledging. 212-279-3400. It's extremely easy,
extremely painless. We have volunteers standing by hoping that you will call. Please call 212-279-3400.
If you've gotten anything out of this radio program at all, please call and just say thanks a little bit,
you know? It helps us out so much, and it makes us feel really good. It gives us the, um, the, uh,
the desire to keep going. We always have that desire to keep going, but, uh, you really need that shot in
the arm, you know, to really keep going, to really come back next week with, uh, all kinds of great
bits of information. And we do already have next week's show planned. It's going to be interesting.
A lot of, uh, legal things that are going on that are quite disturbing.
That doesn't just stop in the hacker world. Remember that. It goes on in a lot of worlds.
It affects us all either way. 212-279-3400. Show your support. All right, let's take a couple of,
uh, listener phone calls here on the non-pledge lines. Hopefully all these people are already
pledging. Good evening. You're on Off the Hook. Yeah, good evening, guys. How are you doing? Great show.
Thank you. Okay, there are some questions I'd like to ask. First of all, as far as computer
hardware, if you would like to, let's say, assemble a computer yourself from scratch,
would you recommend any books or anything like that on there? To assemble a computer from scratch?
Yeah, if you want to just put the computer together.
Well, I don't, I don't know that I'd, uh, know any books offhand. It's, uh, relatively simple. If you're
just going to buy a motherboard and buy the case, there's plenty of catalogs. You can, you can buy
those sorts of things, uh, separately and put them together and it's usually cheaper. You wouldn't
need a book to do that. Okay, so I can just go there to any, let's say, uh, uh, uh, not to the name
of a company, uh, PC warehouse and I can put together stuff from there. It's, it's perfectly
possible. I'm not, I'm not familiar with that, uh, with any particular company, but, uh, there's
plenty that you could buy, uh, motherboards and cases from. Okay. Are there any pitfalls
to say to look out for? Let's say, for instance, uh, mixing brand names, like, uh, putting different
hard drives inside. Are there any things that, can I mix and match, uh, Toshiba versus IBM and
stuff like that? Well, uh, hard drives, uh, in general are, uh, narrowed down to different
types. There's, uh, IDE and, uh, SCSI and, uh, MFM. As long as, uh, the controller card
was made for that format of hard drive, it doesn't matter who the manufacturer is, as
long as you're matching the protocol that the hard drive and the controller card are
using so they can talk to each other. Sir, I suggest, uh, you give a call to the Personal
Computer Show next week. They can probably give you a lot more specific information. Yeah,
that would be more appropriate. Okay. Thanks a lot. Okay. Thanks for calling. The Personal
Computer Show, of course, is on Wednesday nights at nine o'clock. We're on
Wednesday nights at ten. Let's take one more phone call. Good evening. You're on off the
hook. Hi. Thank you for taking the call. Uh, earlier you mentioned if you summon dial, uh,
star seven zero, then you disable the call waiting. That's right. And my question is that,
uh, um, uh, how can I implement, uh, this, uh, phone number, um, when I dial something from
the modem that is, uh, uh, what is the equivalent of the star and the pound sign if I type in
the number from the computer keyboard? Uh, same thing. The star, the star that's above
the eight. This is assuming you have touchstone, of course. Yeah. But, uh, the star above the
eight, uh, or if you don't have touchstone, one, one instead of the star. Uh, so if I,
if I am typing the phone numbers into my computer through the keyboard, uh, and, uh, should I
just simply, uh, type the star seven zero? That's right. Yeah. Uh, one thing, uh, to bear
in mind is that, uh, in some cases you don't need to pause. You could just do star seven zero
with the number immediately after that. In some instances you may have to insert a pause and
to do that, you would use a couple of commas. One comma should be more than enough. Yeah.
You only need a slight pause if even necessary at all. So you'd actually type in star seven
zero, a comma if you need one, and then just the, uh, one plus area coded number or however
you'd normally dial. Okay. We are out of time. So I want to thank those people for calling
in and give one last, uh, last, uh, I beg, I guess, for people to, uh, to call up and,
uh, and pledge money to the radio station 212-279-3400. I want to thank everybody that
called in. I don't want to all give the impression that we didn't do well because we did. We raised
$1,520, $1,520. That is incredible. That's better than I thought possible. And I, I owe
people my unending gratitude for that. But if you haven't called and you still want to join
the people that have called, please do it now because we are leaving 212-279-3400. We'll be back
again next week until then, keep looking to the sky, keep those dreams floating and don't ever
get too old to dream. See you next week. Good night.
And stay tuned for Earthwatch.
So kiss me, my sweet. And so let us part. And when I grow too old to dream, your love
will live in my heart.
Bye.
Bye.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Let us part
And when
I grow
Too old
To dream
Your love
Will live
In my heart
Your love
Will live
In my heart
Your love
Will live
In my heart
Will live
In my heart
Will live
In my heart
Will live
In my heart
In my heart
Thank you.
To be given any word
It was screaming to be heard
The earth can be any shape you wanted
Any shape at all
Dark and cold or bright and warm
Long off in the fall
But it's home
All you have
And all I ever had
Maybe why for me
The earth is past
All you have
early
called in
The earth can be a small
slope to the stage
The earth can be fair