And you're listening to radio station WBAI in New York, where the time is just about
10 o'clock, and that means it's time for Off the Hook.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
It couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
Bum-diddly-bum for the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood.
Bum-diddly-bum!
Bum-diddly-bum
Bum-diddly-bum
Bum-diddly-bum
Bum-diddly-bum
Bum-diddly-bum
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Bum-diddly-bum
Feels like one of those concerts, you know, where they just keep playing the music and you're waiting for the actual concert to begin and they just keep stringing you along.
It's kind of almost as complicated, too, because of all the things we have to set up here to get things working just right.
But we're pretty much we're pretty much ready to go here off the hook. The program about high tech and the many perils that we face every day of our lives.
And sometimes we don't even know about it. We're here to help. And we've got a very interesting program lined up tonight.
Hopefully a lot of you will learn some things out of it.
OK, we'll talk about a couple of new telephone company things first.
Well, I got my features today. Yes, my telephone company features and fiber optic. You didn't get your features today, did you?
No, apparently we're not high tech enough in where I live in Queens.
It's kind of funny, you know, how both you and I are literally the last among the last people to get the things that we would want to play with the most.
But to give you an example today, I finally was able to, for the first time, play with call, return, return, what's it called? Return busy.
All these, all these high tech names. Repeat call. Repeat call. Yes.
Star six, six. Repeat call. If somebody is busy, you call them.
Star six, nine to return a call. Star eight, six to cancel a. What was it called again? Repeat call. Repeat call. Thank you. I have trouble with that one.
And star eight, nine to cancel call, return. Star five, seven to trace a call. Star six, seven to block your number from caller ID.
And so far, caller ID does not yet seem to be working.
I heard something rather conflicting from the phone company. I guess that's not unusual in itself.
But from what the nice representative I talked to yesterday told me, everybody who did not previously have caller ID will have it for free for two months.
In other words, they will not be billed until June 15th.
Now, a lot of people supposedly will be getting these features on April 15th, which is tomorrow.
And some of you may already have it today. It may have already been turned on.
What they're also not exactly breaking their necks telling you is that you have call return and I'm sorry, what was it again?
Repeat call. Repeat call. Maybe you'll just come in and say that every now and then.
Repeat call and all these other neat features with the exception of call trace, which costs $1.50.
All the other features, though, are free for two months.
Now, I remember last year when everybody seemed to be getting these features that was being advertised on buses and in the sky and everywhere.
But now that the last few people are being added, they're not really going out of their way to tell people.
But that is true. If you haven't had these features before and now you suddenly do have them, you are entitled to that same 60-day trial period.
I'm not 100% certain about the caller ID, though, as telephone calls, call ID.
I was told by one representative that every telephone line will have it for two months.
Now, they seem to be very confident about this, so I'm not sure if it's true or not.
We'll know in another week, that's for sure.
And if it is free, by all means, play around with it as much as you can.
Now, I did a lot of experimenting today with various call return and repeat call features and various things like that.
Playing with call forwarding, playing with pay funds.
I discovered something very interesting.
Call return does not work to pay funds.
If somebody calls you from a pay phone directly and you star 69 them, or if you don't have a touch-tone phone, 1169 them,
it will tell you that the call you made cannot be completed in this fashion.
Now, does that surprise you? That surprised me.
No, it's not very surprising.
Why?
Well, okay.
For instance, if you were to return call someone, your switch is going to send a message over the SS7 network,
the local SS7 network, to the remote office after determining what the last number was that called you and you're trying to call back.
Now, what the remote switch is going to do is look at something called a line class code.
And a line class code is pretty much a treatment code for the type of service that the telephoning question has.
For instance, a line class code might be 1MR for individual message rate residential.
And a pay phone might be DTF for dial tone first.
It'll simply see that it's DTF, dial tone first, and say, this is a pay phone.
We don't want to let it through.
Now, okay, well, I mean, I agree with all of you said, but what I don't understand is why?
Why won't they allow you to call a pay phone?
Well, I think it goes along with the reasoning that they'd rather get revenue from people paying to make an outgoing call on the pay phone.
And you'll notice more and more normal New York telephone pay phones won't receive incoming calls.
Yeah, but, you know, they told us that was because of drugs.
It was a way of fighting drugs by not allowing drug dealers to receive calls on pay phones.
So they all, of course, got cellular phones, and the rest of us are stuck.
But if they're going to allow incoming calls in the first place, you know, why don't they simply allow star six?
It doesn't make any sense.
It's one of those silly things that I wish they would consult with people before they decide to do that.
If somebody calls me and they just happen to be at a pay phone, I'm not going to know that.
It's not going to say the call that you've made is going to a pay phone.
They're going to say the call you made cannot be returned in this fashion.
They could be calling from Pluto for all I know.
But then you'd have a call ID box.
Well, now, okay, do pay phone numbers, I don't know this yet because I haven't had a chance to play with it.
Do pay phone numbers get transmitted onto caller ID?
By all means.
There's no reason why they shouldn't.
Well, by the same logic, then, there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to star six nine a pay phone.
I agree.
Okay.
Well, I'm glad we were able to hammer that out.
That's one of the things I played with.
Now, this is interesting, something I've always wanted to try, and follow along with me here because it can get kind of crazy when you think about all these little features in tandem.
You have a telephone line, and on your telephone line, you have the capability to initiate call forwarding.
You have the ability to, if somebody calls your line, it will go someplace else and ring that phone instead.
All right, so let's say you're at location A, you're at your house, and you decide to call person B from your phone.
Now, let's say that you're calling this person.
However, your phone line is being forwarded to your office at location C.
All right, so anybody that calls your phone, which we called A, will get location C, your office.
You can still make outgoing calls from location A and call anywhere you want, but people won't be able to call you.
If they call you a number, they'll get your office.
It'll forward.
Now, what happens if you call somebody and they star 6-9 you?
Do they get your home or do they get your office?
Well, what I found out today was they get neither.
They get a recording saying the call you have made cannot be completed in this method, this fashion, whatever.
Now, that's interesting in itself.
They don't allow the call to get through.
You can't fool people that way.
One of the things that I was thinking was, you know, if, say, you were tormenting somebody and you wanted to really, really torment them,
they could think that they're calling you back when you torment them, and instead they'll be calling somebody else
who will then become convinced that that person is tormenting them, and then you could start wars that way.
But instead you get a recording.
However, as soon as you turn your call forwarding off, the call will go through without any further calls being necessary.
So if somebody tries to call me back at location A, they will initially get that recording.
If I turn call forwarding off and they try again five seconds later without getting another phone call from me, my phone will ring at location A.
I thought that was kind of interesting.
A couple other things.
Zero plus calls consistently, whether it's automated or whether it's through an operator, what have you, collect calls.
You cannot return them.
You cannot return those calls at all.
I don't know.
Do you think that's going to change someday?
Well, I think it will, along with the fact that you don't get A&I if you go through the operator as well.
Uh-huh.
I think that'll be done away with soon enough.
Yeah, I think that'll be done away with pretty quickly.
Another thing, if you have call hunting, it will, um, if, say, you call somebody, call hunting is when one line is busy, it jumps to the second line, and maybe jumps to a third line, et cetera, et cetera.
Let's say you call somebody from line one, and they decide to star 6-9 you.
However, you happen to be on line one.
The logical thing you would think would happen would be it would jump to line two, but that is not what happens with call return.
It stops at line one, and if that particular line is in use, it'll tell you, this line is busy.
This line is busy, and we'll keep trying for a half hour, and we'll ring you back with a special ring.
That special ring is kind of interesting, too.
It's kind of like three short rings that notify you that the phone you're trying to call is busy, and you pick up, and then that phone rings.
Uh, some phones, however, don't, uh, don't reflect those three short little rings, and you might have a hard time telling.
Also, if, um, if you don't answer those three short rings, which will ring a maximum of seven times, I found out.
Yeah, I was playing with this for about two hours.
Um, it will try you again, and I don't know how many times it keeps trying you.
It could get, uh, kind of, kind of annoying after a while, I suppose, but, uh, that's just one of the prices of high tech.
And, uh, I guess that's pretty much all I found out.
If there's any other, anything you were curious about, Fiber, as to what would happen?
I haven't been giving it much thought.
I've just pretty much accepted the fact that I'm not going to have these features for a long time.
Yeah, well, you're even put last on the list, I suppose.
Uh, something else I tried, um, which, um, I have heard work in some places, and this is a trick, and it all depends on how your central office is programmed.
But, um, if, say, you star 6ix9ine somebody, and they don't want you, they don't want you to be able to do that.
But, well, they can't stop it.
Your phone is going to, their phone is going to ring no matter what.
However, they can prevent the last four digits of their phone number from showing up on local itemization.
And I believe the way to do that, and again, I have not verified this because I'm only now trying it,
is to dial star 6ix7ine first, just like you would block caller ID.
And then when they get their local itemization, if they do get such a thing, instead of having, uh, the full number,
they'll just have the area code exchange and four X's.
Um, so that's, uh, that's a way of, uh, of blocking sort of star 6ix9ine,
but you can't really block people from calling you back.
Uh, however, in some areas, I've been told it works, where if you dial a carrier access code,
that is 1-0-X-X-X for a long distance company, and then star 6ix9ine,
it will go through using that carrier access code, and it will be charged as a long distance call,
and you'll see their number.
Again, I have not yet seen this.
I have heard about it.
I'm, I'm not saying I'd like to see it, but I would like to see that.
It would be a horrible thing if it were true, but, uh, if it is true, we need to know.
And that's, uh, that's pretty much the extent of my experimenting with, uh, with new class,
do they call them class features in New York?
Uh, well, they're standardly called class features by Bellcore.
Yeah, but this is New York telephone here.
Yeah, then, then it would be phone smart.
Ah, phone smart, yes.
It's not caller ID, it's call ID, and, uh, it's, it's a lot of fun.
Now, there's something else that, um, if you weren't careful,
and I'll bet you didn't, did you read the paper today?
No, I can't say I have.
Well, even if you did read the paper today, I don't think you would have seen this,
because it was hidden, uh, in the middle of, uh, of, of part two.
Really, really hidden.
It was just a little tiny telephone company, uh, advertisements.
Notice of proposed changes in telephone company regulations.
Now, that's the kind of thing where you say, uh-oh, they're up to something,
and they're trying to hide it here.
You know, it's time, uh, time to see what it is they want.
Well, listen to this.
We mentioned this a couple of, a couple of weeks ago.
Notice is hereby given that a proposed tariff has been filed with the Public Service Commission
to be effective May 14th, 1993,
which provides for the introduction of rules, rates, and regulations for voice dialing service.
Voice dialing service is a network-based service
which allows customers to place telephone calls
by speaking the name of a person or place directly into the telephone.
I, I don't think it really has to do a person or place.
I mean, you can program whatever you want.
You can program an obscenity, and it will, it will call whatever you've programmed that obscenity to call.
Uh, it's just, um, a word or a sound or something like that.
Anyway, to continue,
Additionally, a customer may use the service to activate codes associated with custom calling service,
phone smart service, or IntelliPath service.
Subscribers will continue to have the option to manually dial a telephone number.
Bless their hearts.
We're going to still have the opportunity to dial a manual telephone.
Oh, that's great.
Voice dialing service will be offered where facilities permit
and suitably equipped digital central offices.
I guess that counts you out because you're not suitably equipped for whatever reason.
I am digital.
You're digital, but you're not suitable.
That's, that's what they've decided.
Voice dialing service will be compatible with individual and auxiliary, rotary, and touchtone telephone lines
subject to the regulations of the tariff.
Voice dialing service will be offered to subscribers with an optional 30 name slash number directory
or 50 name slash number directory.
Additionally, subscribers will be offered a feature called directory sharing.
This feature allows a subscriber with two or more telephone lines
the ability to share a voice dialing service directory.
The proposed regulations are set forth in tariffs which are available for inspection
at offices of New York Telephone where business is transacted in person.
And those are 101 Willoughby Street in Brooklyn, 88-11, 165th Street in Jamaica, 204 2nd Avenue in Manhattan,
or 2532 Grand Concourse off Fordham Road in the Bronx.
Tariffs also are available at the offices of the Public Service Commission, Empire State Plaza in Albany,
295 Main Street in Buffalo, or 400 Broom Street in Manhattan.
Now here are the rates that they are proposing to charge here.
Voice dialing 30, $4.50 for residents, $8 for business.
Voice dialing 50, $5.50 for residents, $10 for business.
And shared directory 30, $4.50 per line, $8 per line business.
And shared directory 50, $5.50 residents, $10 business.
I don't really understand that why it's the exact same cost when you could just get voice dialing 30,
voice dialing 50 for all of your lines and pay the same thing as shared directory,
which would simply duplicate the...
It would save you the trouble of programming it again, I suppose,
but you wouldn't be getting the full flexibility of having a different one in every line.
I don't know.
That's something that seems like kind of an experiment to see if people will actually enjoy talking into their phones,
saying words, and having them immediately dial.
I don't know.
For $4.50 a month, maybe it's worth an experiment just to see how it goes through.
It's worth noting that call waiting is still more expensive.
Call waiting is more expensive.
I don't know why that is.
And touch tone is almost as expensive, too.
But I'm not going to launch into that again.
Okay.
We have a special guest with us today.
First, let me tell you something about what we'll be talking about in the remainder of the time we have.
A little something the FBI doesn't want you to know.
Knowledge is power.
The First Amendment gives the media the power of knowledge.
In fact, it is meant to take it from the government and put it in the hands of the people.
The government doesn't always agree.
New technology can be scary.
A good example is the phone system constantly expanding in features.
Some would like to keep that secret.
The president of a company offering telephone services to private detectives, the FBI, and others, is one.
Jim Welke, president of Telscan, Loveland, Colorado, said that he didn't want to see the concept get into the news media.
Donahue, Oprah, 60 Minutes.
He also noted that the FBI says we need to keep this thing, never completing the sentence, but clear on its meaning.
Just, what is this concept in need of such great secrecy?
Actually, in the matter of technology, it is quite simple.
Less than a week after those comments, Full Disclosure, the nation's number one surveillance magazine, set up a demonstration.
And in a moment, we're going to participate, but first, let's introduce our special guest, the publisher of Full Disclosure, Glenn Roberts.
Glenn, are you there?
Good evening.
And you're with us from, I believe, Ann Arbor, Michigan?
No, I moved from Ann Arbor, Michigan four years ago.
Oh.
Chicago, Illinois now.
You're in Chicago.
That's right.
Yeah, I should have known by the area because it's 708.
Well, what is it that we have going here?
You have a special 800 number.
I suppose maybe we should just give a call to it?
That would be a good way of introducing it.
Okay, let's do that.
The number is 800-235-1414.
All right, let's try that right now.
Okay, we're having trouble with our phone system once again.
Hold on.
All right, we'll have to try that from the bottom line here.
Let's try this.
Okay, everybody, listen carefully.
Okay.
We know who you are.
This wouldn't happen to be your phone number, would it?
2-1-2-2-7-9-3-4-0-8
I told you.
Yeah, Joker, not so fast.
You and your caller ID can't beat 1-900-STOPPER.
Prove it yourself for just $1.95 a minute.
From any touch-tone phone, dial 1-900-STOPPER.
That's 1-900-786-7737.
Then dial this 800-TEST number.
The Joker won't get your number, and neither will anyone else
when you start your calls with Stopper.
No trace, no record.
No caller ID.
Repel the privacy invaders.
Does the FBI have a file on you?
How to protect your Social Security number?
What's the latest in surveillance?
It's all reported in Full Disclosure magazine.
For free information, leave your name and address
after you hear the upcoming tone.
When you're finished recording,
press any touch-tone and listen for further instruction.
Now here comes the tone.
Okay, nice tone it was.
Now, Glenn, perhaps you could explain to us
what is this service that you set up?
Well, this is a demonstration of the phone company's A&I,
Automatic Number Identification Service,
which is a little bit different from caller ID.
In one of the ways is it works throughout the nation.
Anywhere in the country, when you call an 800 or a 900 number,
your phone number is transmitted through the phone network,
very similar to caller ID.
However, the blocking mechanisms that work with caller ID are not a part of A&I,
and we found that in some cases cellular phone numbers also get passed on correctly
through the A&I circuitry,
and we haven't seen any circumstances where they come through correctly on caller ID.
There are many people out there in the business environment,
telemarketing companies, in law enforcement, the private detective field,
that want to use this technology to their advantage
when people aren't aware that the phone number is going through there.
They want to trick people into releasing their phone numbers to them
by means of the A&I service.
I see.
Now, how does the connection with 900 Stoppers come in, with full disclosure?
We set up this test number with 900 Stopper,
which is a private caller ID blocking service,
and it's really more than a caller ID blocking service
because not only when you place a call through 900 Stopper
is your number not transmitted to the recipient of the call,
your number or the numbers that you call do not appear on your phone bill
or on a local itemization,
which means someone can't subpoena your phone records
to find out who you've been calling
when your calls have been placed through 900 Stopper.
So we set up this test number in conjunction with 900 Stopper
so that they can demonstrate how their no-trace service works,
and we can introduce people to the privacy aspects of the phone system.
Well, I have to say it's a good service to let people know
exactly how easy it is to get their phone number,
and that's something that I think a lot of people will be experimenting with
to see just how secure their privacy really is.
But $1.95 a minute for an anonymous phone call?
Well, that seems to be what the market is willing to pay for.
There's many people out there.
For example, we saw the Procter & Gamble situation
where an employee or an ex-employee of Procter & Gamble
reported some no-good business the company was doing to a Wall Street Journal reporter.
However, Procter & Gamble then got the local police department to subpoena
and order the local phone company to search through
500,000 or 600,000 telephone records
looking for whomever called the particular number at the Wall Street Journal
in hopes of identifying the person who was a whistleblower.
We see all of these anonymous tip lines on television
for different governmental agencies, America's Most Wanted, and so forth,
and they all say it's anonymous when, in fact, it's not anonymous.
In many cases, if someone did use 900 Stopper,
they could spend the two or three minutes to convey that information
with true anonymity that they couldn't get by directly dialing the number.
There are a number of other means that in some cases will work
to give you the anonymity.
In some cases, car phone numbers aren't conveyed,
and at the time being, when you place a call through the operator,
your number won't be conveyed through the caller ID or the ANI services,
but it would still appear on your phone bill.
Okay, let's give that a try right now.
I'm going to get another dial tone here,
and we're going to get a New York telephone operator,
one of the brave few operators out there that have to deal with us.
So you just ask for a dialing assistance.
New York telephone.
Pay, now be pleased.
Hello, operator.
We're having some difficulty getting through to an 800 number.
Can you help us?
All right.
What number?
Okay, it's 800-235-1414.
Yeah.
Thank you very much.
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
We know who you are.
This wouldn't happen to be your phone number, would it?
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
Zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero.
No, that would not happen to be my phone number.
That's what happens if you try to call through the operator.
And this 800 number is very good because we can see when exactly our number does get passed through the network with absolute certainty.
However, if we went back to the Procter & Gamble situation, had the person who made that report to the Wall Street Journal placed his call through the operator,
the phone number he dialed would have still appeared in his phone records, and those records could still have been subpoenaed by the local police department and accessed.
And it's only a matter of time, really, before calls going through the operator will carry ANI.
I think that's absolutely true.
And the same goes for cellular phones.
I recently read in a magazine article that you could use cellular phones to avoid ANI,
and we found that to be true in all places in the country that we've tried it, with one exception so far,
and that's in Michigan with the cellular one carrier.
Those phone numbers are being conveyed through the ANI service correctly.
They do not show up on caller ID, though.
When you call from an Ameritech phone in Michigan or a cellular one phone in Illinois,
you get a number with the correct area code, but the other seven digits do not correspond to anything that makes any sense.
Now, when you call through this 900 stopper service, I tried it before, and I, well, what are you supposed to get?
You will get a phone number in the 702 area code.
That's right.
And that's a phone number that if you dial, it will ring once and you get nothing further.
So it's basically a phone number that goes nowhere.
Okay, but that is the number I imagine that you are calling out on, or at least it thinks you're calling out on.
That's correct.
And the same type of thing might happen in a business environment.
If you have a PBX system at your business, you might be at, your phone number might be 555-1000.
When you call this 800 number, it might say that you're calling from 555-1010,
because it's going to give you the number of the actual phone line that you're calling out on,
which when you're going through a PBX system won't necessarily correspond with what you think your phone number is.
How hard do you think it would be for the federal authorities or any authority to simply say,
okay, let's subpoena that particular phone number over in the 702 area code and see who called in at this particular time?
The problem there is there's, first of all, you have multiple calls, quite likely, of course,
transpiring on 900 stopper at a given time.
And secondly, there's no direct connection between them because, of course,
the time on your phone bill is going to be different than the outgoing call
because you can't dial the phone numbers at the same time.
So it's all going to be a matter of them presuming that or coming to the conclusion that the calls match up,
but they don't have a direct link that the calls are matched up.
Whereas if it shows up on your phone bill directly,
they have direct evidence that it was dialed from your phone.
So it does, it breaks the gap.
It makes it into a circumstantial type case.
To date, and I believe Stopper has been in existence for three years now,
nobody has subpoenaed their phone records.
Really? Nobody has yet subpoenaed their phone records?
That's correct.
Now, there's one situation I can think of where it really wouldn't matter how you made the phone call.
If you have a pen register on your line, they're going to capture all the digits that you dial.
And since you have to dial the digits in touchtone on Stopper, won't they capture you that way?
That's correct.
If you are going through a system that is doing either a wiretap or a pen register,
the digits would be recorded.
And, of course, any type of scheme, that information will be picked up on,
whether it was calling to the operator and asking her to dial a wiretap,
the digits would be heard on the tape of you speaking them,
or anything that would use touchtones would get picked up on a pen register.
Let's see.
Okay.
Very interesting.
We'll be taking phone calls at 212-279-3400.
I was thinking, though, one service that might actually be beneficial is if you,
perhaps for an additional charge, had somebody pick up and simply take information by voice.
That way, if there were some sort of a pen register on the phone,
there would not be any record of the person dialing because they'd have to speak the number.
And unless there was a full-blown tap on the line, they would not know the connection between the two calls.
That's correct.
The other service that Private Lines, the company that offers 900 Stopper, has is anonymous voicemail boxes.
And the way they work is they're prepaid by the customer to Private Lines.
Private Lines then pays the monthly phone bill for the voicemail box, and it has unlimited usage.
And Private Lines doesn't keep any records as to whom purchased that voicemail box.
When you sign up for it, you send them a self-addressed stamped envelope for the mailbox phone number
and access code to be returned to the owner of the phone number or the purchaser of the anonymous voicemail.
And then the subsequent monthly payments simply indicate the voicemail box number
and don't have to come to any particular person.
And this is sort of the opposite side of making anonymous phone calls,
but allows someone to receive anonymous phone calls.
They can give the voicemail box number out,
and there's no way for someone to trace that voicemail box number back to the user of the voicemail.
I see.
Okay, how did Full Disclosure get involved with this?
We got involved with it because we cover all the different aspects of surveillance technology and privacy issues,
and Private Lines is providing services along those lines.
And we ran across the Telscan company that was providing the 800 numbers.
What they do is they sell an 800 number to a law enforcement agency or a private detective,
and then every day they fax a list of the phone numbers that called that 800 number to their clients.
This is not Stopper.
This is Telscan.
This is Telscan.
Okay.
And they had set up a demonstration line very much like the Full Disclosure demonstration line,
and we were making use of that for our own purposes,
and it got mentioned on a talk show, and it was flooded with calls,
and they were fairly upset with us about that.
And we spoke to them about whether they could set up such a demonstration line for us,
and that's when we got all of this flack from them that they wanted the concept of it kept secret and so forth.
So we went to another voicemail service provider,
and within the matter of eight hours they had the demonstration line set up and working for us.
And you haven't gotten any flack from them from all these people that are calling it?
No, we haven't.
And, in fact, Telscan was happy that we set up our own number
because then we won't be using their number with the public,
and they won't receive calls that won't be turning into business for them.
And Full Disclosure is involved with this because we ask people to leave their name and address,
and then we send them some information on our magazine.
One of the bonuses that we put in that free information pack is a fill-in-the-blank form
that you can use to get copies of your FBI files,
and that form can actually be used with any of the federal agencies.
All right, we're talking to Glenn Roberts, publisher of Full Disclosure magazine,
and we're talking about a new service that Full Disclosure is getting involved with,
mainly a way of making anonymous phone calls at a price.
And the other part of that, of course, is teaching the public about how the ANI service works,
and then, in fact, when you call an 800 number,
your phone number goes to whatever business has that 800 number.
Even if the number isn't provided instantaneously to the company,
it is provided once a month on the phone bill,
and most of the carriers will also provide it once a month on floppy diskette.
Now, what the companies do with your phone number is anybody's guess.
Many companies then take them to a service bureau that looks up the names and addresses
or looks up the phone numbers and gets the names and addresses
and then sells them to telemarketing firms and mailing list companies
as to if you're a person interested in this type of service or that type of service
to generate more drunk mail and more drunk phone calls for you.
Okay, and that 800 number, it's okay to give it out, I suppose.
It's okay to give it out.
We encourage you to call it.
We encourage you to leave your name and address
so you can get some more information on Full Disclosure.
Okay, but we should point out that if people call that number,
their number is being recorded someplace, right?
Their number, what happens with it is they hear their own number every day.
We're sent a fax report of everybody that calls us,
and the voicemail company has offered to provide those numbers on diskette to us.
Full Disclosure and private lines don't intend to sell those numbers
or give them out to anyone outside of our own organization.
So what you'll get if you leave your name and address
is a package by first-class mail from Full Disclosure
about the products and services that we do have,
and we won't be giving your phone number to other people to bother you.
And we don't call you back unless you specifically ask us to.
Okay, that was my next question, if you would be calling back
because you would have that capability, certainly.
No, we're more than happy sending people mail
so they can review it at their own pleasure
and not hitting them at dinnertime with telemarketing calls.
So you don't have to worry from calling our 800 number
that the telemarketers will come after you.
However, if you call anybody else's 800 number,
then it's anybody's guess as to what happens to your phone number.
Okay, and the same thing holds true for 900 numbers, too,
except people are more hesitant to call that
because there is a charge attached to it.
But your number is being passed along in different ways
more and more these days.
That's correct, and many people aren't aware
of how it's being passed along,
so they can't make intelligent decisions
on how to use the phone service.
In many cases, people might find that
when they're calling an advertisement on TV or something
that they want to dial it through the operator
so that the person receiving their call
doesn't have their number
and they don't get put onto additional junk mail lists.
And, of course, to do so, you dial zero
and then ask for assistance in dialing
and give them the number,
and the operator will dial that
without giving you any trouble.
For now, anyway.
Right, and our 800 number, of course,
is 800-235-1414,
and that'll, of course, tell you
exactly when your number is being passed
and when it isn't.
If, for example, someone call forwards their phone
to our 800 number
and you call the call-forwarded phone,
the number that appears on the 800 number
is the one with the call-forwarding active,
not the person that calls it.
That's correct, yes.
Okay, let's take some phone calls,
212-279-3400.
We don't get your number.
We just get your call.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Yes, I'd like to ask some questions on...
First, about this thing.
I just want to say that,
to get off the subject just a little,
I'll get back on it in a couple of minutes.
I just want to say,
some call cards are still stuffed.
I know I mentioned this once before.
People stuff pay phones,
like stuff something in the coin return
where you're supposed to get the money
so that you can't get the money.
They do that with call cards,
and it's hard because you can't really
go to the establishment where the call card is
and tell them to give you your money back
because they'll be hesitant to do that,
and it's sometimes hard to get through
to the people in which the call card says.
In other words,
sometimes the doctor dial at 2-1-1,
and it would be busy,
and sometimes, of course,
it's hard to get a refund from call cards.
Okay.
Fiber, you want to tackle that one?
Tandem ID.
It's probably...
I'm assuming you're talking about the ID
that it gives in recordings.
I'm assuming you're talking about the ID that it gives...
Please turn down your radio.
I'm sorry.
What?
The ID that they're giving in recordings,
you're saying?
Oh, difficulty.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
What was that?
All right.
This is the third time he's going to say it,
and that's the last time.
Now, go ahead.
You mean the ID code that they're giving in recordings,
the Tandem ID code?
Now, are there any more coin-first phones?
I didn't answer the question.
What?
I didn't answer your question.
I asked you a question.
What did you ask?
I said, do you mean the Tandem ID codes
that are given in recordings?
If you call 910 anything,
it gives you a recording saying,
the customer number you dialed
is not in service or something,
and then it says Tandem ID something or another.
Well, it's a rather verbose way of saying it,
but when you hear something like 132A2, for instance...
All right.
Just dial 910-1234 and see what I mean.
But I'd just like to ask you
if there are any more coin-first phones, pay phones.
No, those went out quite some time ago.
I'm sure you may run into them in some rural areas.
Not around here.
Not around here, no.
The pay phones in Penn Station
where it says deposit 25 cents for 30 seconds,
you can make three long-distance phone calls on it.
I just found out.
You can dial 102881, the area code and number,
and it'll go through.
Is that so?
Well, I guess we'll drop by Penn Station
and see if we can verify that,
but it's nice to have a replacement for Chemical Bank.
And one last thing.
Did you know that...
All right.
Time is wasting.
That's what I know.
Good evening.
Hello?
Yes, go ahead.
Oh, I'm sorry.
We have to turn the radio down.
Okay.
I'm waiting to ask a question.
Go ahead.
You're on the air.
Okay, sorry.
I was on the phone.
I'm calling...
I'm in Queens, and I was...
I didn't do that.
I don't...
I guess they hit the switch hook or something.
Well, we've had two strikeouts so far.
Glenn, are you still with us?
Still here.
Okay.
Let's try and keep the phone calls to the subject.
We're talking about 800-ANI
and services with caller anonymity
and things like that.
Let's see who's out there.
Good evening.
Good evening.
And please turn down your radio.
All right.
Strike three.
Good evening.
Okay.
Let's see if we can avoid having strike three here.
No, we already had strike three.
You'd be strike four,
so let's try to avoid that.
I missed that on the line.
Anyway, getting to the privacy issue here,
it seems to me that,
I mean, most of the callers
that probably use that 900 service,
I would suspect,
are not innocent whistleblowers
trying to do justice.
I dare say a lot of it involves
one kind of nefarious activity or another,
but that's really none of our business,
and someone's making a ton of money off it.
I would suggest that anybody
who really wants total privacy,
that is to say untraceability,
it's a lot cheaper than $1.95 a minute
to just put quarters in a pay phone,
because if you use that 900 service,
first of all,
you're going to be billed by that service
to your phone number,
and if the government,
if the NSA and the FBI
are really such scoundrels,
well, maybe they can't get a legal warrant
to trace all the 900 incoming calls,
but if they know that there's one place
that anybody who wants to use that service
goes to,
that is to say that service,
wouldn't it behoove them
to sort of hack into that line,
because they know that all the crooks
and bandits and scoundrels
who want to do things
that are semi-licit
or, you know,
want to not be used to that,
so that that would be an ideal place
to illegally tap into.
You see what I'm saying?
Yeah, let's let Glenn respond to that.
Well, that would probably be a good idea.
However, I think the practical problem
you get with that
is we've seen the recent wiretap proposals
where the FBI wants
all of the digital circuitry
made accessible to them
for tapping procedures,
and the 900 stopper service
does go through a T1 connection,
which means the interface
into the 900 stopper switching circuit
is over a T1 digital connection,
which means if you believe the FBI
and the fact that they have problems
tapping these digital circuits,
that they're sort of in a bind there
if they wanted to do that,
I would question
whether the FBI really has a problem
tapping those types of circuits, though.
Yeah, and on the payphone issue,
wasn't it a lot cheaper
than $1.95 a minute
to just put quarters into a phone?
A payphone is definitely cheaper.
However, people do trace things
back to payphones,
and if they know it's coming
from a particular payphone,
the location of that payphone
can be obtained
and a physical surveillance
be put on the payphone.
So, for example,
if you call someone
that has ANI or caller ID
and they get the payphone number
and they have good contact
with the phone company,
they can find out
where that payphone is
in short order
and then do a physical surveillance
to find out
who's placing the call.
So there's all sorts of reasons
to use and not to use
the different services out there,
and people should be aware
of what their choices are
so they can pick the one
that's right for them.
Well, a smart whistleblower
would just keep changing phones,
but a dumb kidnapper
probably wouldn't.
I mean, you know,
it's really,
it's a little disconcerting
because, again,
I go back to the theme
of the question,
isn't it true
that most of the people
who want this level of privacy
are protecting something
that is illicit?
That's a very good question,
and we don't know
because we don't know
who the clients
to 900 Stopper are,
and the next question is
if it is illicit things
and the government
does have the power
to subpoena those records
and examine them
if they wish to,
and to date
they have not done so,
which would raise
the assumption
that the government
doesn't seem to think
that any of the users
of 900 Stopper
are doing anything
so illicit
to warrant
the subpoenaing
of their phone records.
Thanks for your questions.
Thank you.
Let me just ask you, Glenn,
do you think the fact
that a service
like 900 Stopper exists
indicates that there's
something fundamentally wrong
with the way
the telephone system
works today?
Well, I think it indicates
that people feel
that there's a need
for privacy.
Certainly the phone system
works differently today
than it did five years ago
or ten years ago
and people are just
naturally opposed to change
so everybody wants
the phone system
to be the way it was
ten years ago
and it's not
and some of these services
might give them
the comfort and feeling
that they can use
the phone system
as they could
ten years ago.
Well, do you think
the phone company
should allow
for some sort of
anonymous feature
for those people
that want it?
A true anonymous feature
is.
Well, I think the problem
you get into
is that because of
the ANI technology,
because of the
switching technology,
that there's no way
really to have
an anonymous calling feature
through the phone company.
For example,
in Illinois,
they keep a record
of all of your
local phone calls.
For $2,
you can get a printout
of that from the
phone company
for a month.
That means that
it's stored on computer,
which means anything
you dial into
the Illinois Bell Network,
somebody can come back
through and search
with a subpoena
and find out
who you're calling.
So, for example,
if the phone number
555-1000
has been called
and they want to find
out who's called it,
they only need to
search through
all the records
for 555-1000
and get a printout
of the numbers
that have called that.
I don't see any way
that with the current-day
phone technology
you can stop
that type of activity
by the phone company
without going beyond
the phone company
to obtain your privacy.
I see.
Do you think
the day will ever come
when there will be
a subpoena
or a trace of some sort
that goes through
this service?
That's a very good question.
I'm personally surprised
that they haven't
received any to date.
I think it's been
a considerable period
of time
that they've been
in business
for subpoenas
not to exist.
I think the founder
of 900 Stopper
originally believed
that within a week
of starting the service
that they would receive
a subpoena
from somebody
or another.
Certainly because
the 900 number
appears on the phone bills,
the government
if they're investigating
someone and sees
the calls
to 900 Stopper
is going to have
a fairly good idea
of what's going on
that this person
is trying to obtain
phone privacy
through the 900 Stopper
service.
I know some time ago
they tried
having an 800 number
800 Stopper service
where the calls
were charged
on a credit card
however the volume
of credit card fraud
prevented them
from continuing that.
Or when you're
dealing with people
that could potentially
be up to something
I guess credit card fraud
is not too far
beyond their grasp.
It basically comes down
to that if you
purchase something
on a credit card
and you don't sign
the sales receipt
in other words
anything you purchase
through the mail
or over the phone
with a credit card
when it shows up
on your bill
you can call the
credit card company
and say you didn't
place the order
and the charges
are reversed
no questions asked
which means any type
of a phone service
being charged
to a credit card
is very easy
for the person
to deny the charges
and have those charges
reversed
which very
quickly turns
into free phone
calls to someone
which means
I'm sure
once the word
got out
there were people
using 800-stopper
not to protect
their privacy
but simply
to obtain
free long distance
phone calls.
Okay let's go
back to the phones.
Good evening
you're on
Off the Hook.
Yeah hi.
Go ahead.
Yeah I have a question
first Emmanuel
do you know
if the Jackson case
in I think
it was in Texas
is a reported case
and what the name
of it was?
Is a reported case
it was I believe
Steve Jackson
games versus
United States
Secret Service?
Steve Jackson
games?
Yeah S-J-G
maybe.
Games as in
G-A-M-E-S.
Right.
If you want to get
a copy of that
you can call the
federal court down
there and have
them give you
the file number
and the size of
the order
and then for
50 cents a page
they'll send you
a Xerox copy of it.
It's also
available.
I have Westlaw
so if it is
recorded I can
get it off Westlaw.
I'll tell you
if you send us
send us some
email over
you're on the
internet?
No no I'm not.
Okay well for
those of you who
are on the
internet there is
a copy available
that's being
floated around
you can email
to 2600
2600
at
well.sf.ca.us
that's well
as in those things
kids fall down
occasionally
San Francisco
California
United States
and that
we'll send you
a copy of that
email-ish
and as Glenn
said you can
get it through
the courthouse
in Austin
and I'm sure
there's other
copies floating
around in
hard copy.
It was in
Austin Texas
federal court?
Yes.
Okay a question
for Glenn
regarding telemarketing
and privacy
he might know
I'm trying to
stop telemarketers
from calling me
and in a recent
instance was
the New York
Telephone
at least people
saying they're
from New York
Telephone
they're trying
to sell me
services
and I asked
them I said
are you from
New York
Telephone
they said no
we're a
telemarketing
corporation
coming out
of Tempe
Arizona
we're
contracting
with New
York
Telephone
so I
said look
I would
like you
never to
call me
again.
What I
found is
that the
legitimate
telemarketers
for example
a local
newspaper
in the area
call up
and if you
tell them
you don't
appreciate
their calls
they will
very promptly
ask you
or tell you
that they'll
put your
phone number
in a
do not
call file
and since
I did that
with the
one paper
I have
never received
another call
from them
and I think
that any
of the
legitimate
companies
are very
good about
that
the other
ones are
best dealt
with four
letter words
or the
ones that
call up
and want
you to
purchase
expensive
investments
over the
phone
and what
not
a little
notification
that you
just got
out of
bankruptcy
or you
intend to
file
bankruptcy
usually
hurries them
off the
phone quicker
than anything
else
but it's
really a
matter of
being abrupt
and rude
to them
and giving
them the
idea that
you are
not a
good client
for their
services
so that
they won't
desire to
call you
back again
is there
not any
federal
legislation
like the
telephone
consumer
protection
act
that would
protect
me
couldn't I
cite that
to them
and tell
them never
to call
me again
there was
some
legislation
passed
and my
understanding
is a
federal
court
has put
the
implementation
of that
on hold
for the
time being
and what
that law
provided is
that they
could call
you and if
you told
them not
to call
you that
particular
telemarketing
company
couldn't call
you back
which raises
the problem
that someone
simply goes
to another
telemarketing
firm and
they'll call
you over
and over
again
would that
be the
reason why
my local
telephone
company
here is
contracting
with an
out of
state
telemarketer
to avoid
state
regulation
that might
very well
be
and also
by switching
telemarketing
companies
New York
Telephone
or any
other business
could avoid
the
by simply
having a
different
business
placing
the
phone
calls
since
the
burden
is
only
on
the
company
placing
the
phone
calls
not to do
it more
than once
and of course
you have a major
problem proving
that a particular
telemarketing
company has
called you
more than
once
or that they
even called
you to
begin
with
what this
telemarketing
company told
me is
they would
not even
accept my
request
they said
since they're
contracting
with my
local phone
company
I would
have to
call my
local phone
company
and put
the request
into them
what I do
is suggest
to the
clerk
that if
they continue
to call
you
that they're
simply
going to
get a
barrage
of
four
letter
words
and that
they can
pass that
message on
to whomever
has the
ability to
block your
phone number
out
but get
get names
get names
of the
companies
and definitely
call your
local phone
company
and if
they get
wind that
you're not
happy with
telemarketing
concerns in
various other
states and
they get
enough calls
like that
something will
probably be
done
well eventually
they told me
the Tempe
Arizona
company said
to call
Valhalla
New York
they gave
me an
800 number
from New
York
tell I
called
there
and they
said
they would
put me
on a
DNC
a do
not
call
list
and it
would take
60 days
for them
to guarantee
that I
wouldn't get
called back
so I
said
well if
you call
me back
within let's
say a
week I'm
going to
report you
to the
attorney
general's
office
I'm telling
you never
to call
me again
but they
said we
can't
guarantee
again it
would take
60 days
and what
happens if
you tell
them you
can't guarantee
you'll pay
your bill
within 60
days
exactly
it's not
very fair
the way they
come up with
these rules
I just want
to bring that
point out that
New York
Telephone is
contracting with
out of state
telemarketers
I believe to
kind of skirt
probably the
state regulations
right well as
soon as it's
out of state
then the
control is
very difficult
for anybody
within the
state to
have any
control over
what that
company is
doing or
to go after
them even
if they are
outright violating
the state or
federal law
exactly
okay we're
going to go to
another call
good evening
you're on the
air
hi
this is Jim
from
Westchester
hello
hi
go ahead
I called
it when I
had a number
that you
just gave
out
and it
doesn't
report back
my phone
number
it doesn't
does it
report back
zeros or
some other
number
that probably
means that
you're in a
very old
exchange
where they
aren't passing
that information
out
so for now
no one can
get that
what part of
the state
are you in
Westchester
up by
White Plains
up by
White Plains
is a pretty
modern area
are you in
White Plains
or somewhere
else
just the
outskirts
of White Plains
Pleasant
do you happen
to know
what kind of
switch you're
on
I do not
do you have
the caller
ID
the caller
ID will
not be
in this area
until July
they're telling me
how about
call waiting
do you have
that
call waiting
I've had
for like a
year
should be able
to pass
that along
and you're
just dialing
direct
1-800
I dialed
four times
and all
four times
it said
zero zero
zero
why don't
you leave
your name
and phone
number on
there
because we
have another
number
that's going
through Sprint
rather than
through AT&T
and we'd like
to see if
that information
is being passed
along
we have
found some
differences
between how
AT&T handles
ANI
and how
Sprint handles
ANI
yeah because
I'm on AT&T
on both my
lines
right well I'm
talking about
as far as
whether the
800 number
is AT&T
or Sprint
yeah it
wouldn't make
a difference
what your
line was
and our
800 number
is an AT&T
800 number
there's another
800 number
that works
the same
as the Sprint
number however
we can't
give that out
to the public
but we would
like to compare
the differences
between them
another question
someone was
telling me
I think it was
Virginia phone
systems
I don't know
there was a
number you
could call
like a star
six something
and if you
called it
and someone
called you
but their
number blocked
it would
never go
through
that's correct
that's correct
a CMP
telephone
implemented that
feature which
is a call
caller ID
block block
and what that
does is if
someone does
the star
six seven
before they
call your
number it
won't even
connect the
number so
your phone
won't ring
they get an
intercept message
saying that this
person doesn't
accept blocked
phone calls
of course if you
blocked your phone
call through a
service such as
900 stopper
that doesn't
activate the
caller ID block
it simply
prevents your
phone number
from going
through which
means your
call would then
go through to
someone that
enabled such a
feature
do you think
New York Telephone
would offer that
if so what would
you know
I doubt New York
Telephone will
offer that because
I think people
will object to it
if they do
I'm just curious
because I mean
I didn't see that
because well
there are states
like New Jersey
which doesn't
even offer
blocking at all
and because people
didn't object to it
so it will happen
occasionally but I
don't think I don't
think states like New
York or California
will allow such
things to go through
unless of course
it turns into a
big money maker
with CMP Telephone
and I don't
suspect that that
service will
I'd like to tell
you guys we're
on a nice show
thank you
thanks for calling
Glenn could you
tell us something
about the differences
between the way
AT&T and Sprint
handle A&I
well what we found
is that in
Michigan if you
dial star six
seven before
call to an
800 number with
AT&T it blocks
your phone number
from being conveyed
to the AT&T 800
number if you do
it before a Sprint
800 number your
phone number is not
blocked we found
that the only area
that this takes place
in is Michigan
and speaking with
AT&T they come up
with some
explanation that it
has to do with the
equal access for
800 numbers which
goes into effect
May 1st
the portability
on May 1st any
800 number can go
to any 800 number
carrier where today
for example all
235 numbers are
AT&T all 945 or
MCI and so forth
MCI and Sprint
apparently updated
their hardware and
software for equal
access back before
December and AT&T has
not yet done that
AT&T says that once
their software is
upgraded for the
equal access
arrangements that
from no place will
you be able to block
the phone numbers
going into AT&T lines
the other difference
is with the
operator assisted call
where AT&T came back
with the series of
all zeros going
through Sprint
you would get the
area code plus an
operator number
AT&T also claims
that this information
will be identical to
Sprint on equal
access day and
really what it comes
down to with AT&T is
that even though they
charge you just a few
cents more for the
call they're providing
less than their
competing companies
that's interesting that
you're saying that
star 6-7 which is
meant to block caller
ID is actually with
AT&T blocking A&I
in calls from the
Michigan Bell area
for example in
Illinois star 6-7 does
not block it
California they don't
have caller ID has
been approved but with
too much regulatory
nonsense the phone
company has decided
not to implement it
there so there's no
mechanism to block it
and there's a number
of other states that
we've tried the star 6-7
in and had it not
block the calls but in
Michigan a star 6-7 does
not block your number
going to a Sprint 800
number
all right Glenn we're
out of time I want to
thank you for being part
of the show tonight and
give you the opportunity
to give out any phone
numbers or addresses you
need to
if people would like to
write to us they can
write to us at full
disclosure box 903
Libertyville Illinois
60048 we can send out
a free information
package or a
subscription is 29.95
okay again thank you
for being on the
program and good luck
with this venture and
hopefully you'll get
through to a lot of
people and educate them
as to just how easy it
is for their phone
numbers to get out
right thank you and we
can repeat that 800
number for you it's
800-235-1414
and that's pretty much
all the time we have
today
the program is off the
hook this is Emmanuel
Goldstein thanks to
everybody for calling in
and we'll be back again
next week with another
program of technology and
advances in civilization
and that kind of thing
stay tuned for the WBAI
evening news
we couldn't get much
worse
but if they could they
would
one diddly bomb for the
best expect the worst
I hope that's understood
one diddly bomb
so
We'll be right back.
Take a step into the 21st century and enter the world of communication technology when Basement Recordings present the Rhythm, Business and Technology exhibition on Saturday, April 24th at the Medgar Evers College Gymnasium located at 1150 Carroll Street in Brooklyn.
The program begins at noon and ends at 5 p.m.
If you're interested in any area of computer technology, whether as musician, engineer, educator, producer, graphic designer, parent or just someone who is curious, whether you're a seasoned professional or fledging amateur, this exhibition is for you.
Again, the exhibition is Saturday, April 24th, Medgar Evers College Gymnasium located at 1150 Carroll Street in Brooklyn.
For more information, please call 718-485-7120.
485-7120.
Good evening.
In the news tonight, one jury is out sick in the Rodney King civil rights trial.
New prospects for peace in Angola despite reports of renewed attacks.
Violence erupts in South Africa after the assassination this weekend of a popular black activist.
And in New York, the nation's black mayors meet here to denounce the Senate filibuster and to demand passage of the president's economic plan.
With these and other stories, I'm Laura Seidel in New York with Verna Avery-Brown in Washington.
And this is the news for Wednesday, April 14th, 1993.
First, this update in the Rodney King civil rights trial.
There is a sick juror.
Federal Judge John Davies called lawyers for both sides into his courtroom in Los Angeles this afternoon to tell them one juror is ill.
Both sides agreed to let the juror see a family doctor.
The judge would not say what the medical problem is, but he did say the juror is not being excused from the trial.
Deliberations in the case have ended for the day and will resume tomorrow.
The jury has deliberated for five days on charges that four L.A. policemen violated King's civil rights in a beating two years ago.
And now to Verna Avery-Brown in Washington with other headline news.
For the first time since the siege began in Ohio's maximum security prison, we have an idea what may have sparked it.
Bill Cohen reports.
Ever since Sunday, when 450 Lucasville prison inmates rioted and took over a cell block, corrections officials have refused to make public the prisoners' list of 19 demands.
They've said that would interfere with negotiations.
And they didn't want to risk the lives of eight guards who were being held hostage.
Now, though, a local newspaper has unveiled what it believes to be several of the inmates' grievances.
Citing unnamed reliable sources within the prison, the Portsmouth Daily Times reports the inmates want more blacks hired as guards,
better jobs for black inmates within the lockup, and the firing of the prison warden and some of his top deputies.
The 450 rebel inmates are now outnumbered.
Ohio Governor George Voinovich has called out 500 National Guard troops to surround the facility.
Earlier in the day, an ominous deadline came and went.
With no apparent bloodshed, the inmates had warned they would kill a hostage in three and a half hours.
But there's no evidence they carried out the threat.
For Pacifica Radio News, this is Bill Cohen in Columbus.
President Clinton pushed for his $16.3 billion stimulus package at a summer jobs conference in Virginia.
Brooklyn high school student Octavius Jeffers touted the benefits of his summer work program.
It taught me that discipline is necessary in all aspects of my life.
That confidence in myself will help me meet the challenges put before me.
That working hard in school will give me the foundation to perform well in the workplace.
That what I do and learn now matters today and for all the tomorrows to come.
Clinton says the summer jobs program is part of an overall plan to restart the nation's economic engine.
If young Americans don't get a good education, don't learn how to work, and can't be productive,
those jobs will not be created in this country.
Machines will do the work, or the work will be done offshore.
The White House is sending out news releases to local media describing projects that will be funded under the stimulus package.
An Oregon news release says the northwest state would get 1,900 jobs this year and 4,800 jobs this summer.
That's provided that Oregon's Republican Senators Mark Hatfield and Robert Packwood break the gridlock in Washington.
Republicans are firing back with their own campaign.
At a Capitol Hill news conference, GOP members announced their own town hall meetings this Saturday.
Representative Tom DeLay of Texas charges Clinton's economic proposal amounts to one thing.
Contributions, or taxes, incentives, or more taxes and spending, sacrifice, taxes again, and finally investments, again, more spending and more taxes.
All 43 Republican Senators banded together to prevent a vote on Clinton's economic stimulus package.
The next test of the GOP filibuster could come on Tuesday.
Liberal African-American Democrat Benny Thompson has won the Mississippi congressional seat vacated by Mike Espy.
Voter turnout was heavier than expected.
In South Africa, police clashed with protesters, leaving six people dead and hundreds injured.
The violence comes during a one-day national strike called by black workers to protest the weekend killings of Chris Haney.
Millions took off work, and there were peaceful memorial services and marches throughout South Africa.
Treasury Secretary Lloyd Benson says Japan's trade surplus with the U.S. raises substantial concern.
Benson says Japan's own $117 billion economic stimulus package is a step forward.
But Tokyo must increase its demand for U.S. products in the years ahead.
Those are the stories topping the news.
As the jury deliberations continue in the federal trial of the LAPD officers accused of violating Rodney King's civil rights,
Los Angeles officials are taking further precautions to protect the identities of the jury members.
The presiding judge admonished a courtroom sketch artist for providing two detailed drawings of the jury.
As Los Angeles awaits the highly anticipated verdict, Pacifica's Tracy Lee spoke with two courtroom watchers about the jury's task
and the chances that any of the officers will be convicted.
Police officers are rarely convicted in federal court.
Susan Seeger covers the federal courts for the Los Angeles Daily Journal, the West's largest legal daily.
I think jurors are very sympathetic to police officers.
I think it's still very hard to persuade a jury that police officers are bad and they're doing wrong on purpose
and that they're out to hurt people.
I've seen in the federal courthouse here over the past year very few cases, civil cases or criminal cases,
against police officers win convictions or damage awards, even with the Rodney King videotape out there.
Still, the tape will likely play a key role in the jury's decision-making process.
And on it, one officer, Lawrence Powell, is seen delivering the most baton blows to Rodney King.
That's why Powell may very well be convicted.
Dan Kaplis is a legal analyst who is covering the trial for NBC News.
Compromise is a very real dynamic here.
It won't be stated, but it's there.
And what puts it there is that the evidence against Officer Powell is so strong
that he would be a relatively easy compromise.
Though a reasonable juror could vote not guilty on him,
a reasonable juror could probably also vote to convict him and have peace of mind.
On the other hand, Kaplis says the anonymity of the jury of nine Anglos, two African Americans, and one Latino,
makes it easier for jurors to vote to acquit.
The anonymous jury makes it easier for these jurors to acquit the officers
without fear of some kind of public reprisal against them personally.
There's been a lot of talk about the possibility of a hung jury in this case.
Kaplis says this is less likely with a sequestered jury.
The sequestered jury is usually more likely to reach a final verdict
because many of the barriers have been dented during sequestration.
So when someone disagrees with you, you don't automatically stereotype them
as some rich jerk or some bigot whatever
because you've had late-night talks about sports or boyfriends or whatever.
No Los Angeles jury has been sequestered
sequestered since the one that heard the Charles Manson trial in the early 70s.
As in that trial, jurors in the King's civil rights proceedings
have been isolated to shield them from the massive publicity surrounding the case.
But they've been sequestered for another reason, too.
The judge clearly was concerned about keeping their identities secret
so that jurors could feel free to acquit the officers
without fear of retribution from angry members of the community.
How that will affect jurors is difficult to assess.
One thing is clear, though, the historical disposition of juries towards police officers.
Again, Susan Seeger of the L.A. Daily Journal.
Jurors are frightened of crime.
They know it's a scary job for cops out there,
and they're reluctant to say to themselves,
gosh, police officers are bad.
They want to believe that police officers are doing a good job
because they are the thin blue line protecting them from the criminals of the world.
But for many in L.A.'s African-American and Latino communities,
it is a group of abusive police officers who've become the criminals of the world,
and not convicting these four would be a miscarriage of justice.
For Pacifica, this is Tracy Leith in Los Angeles.
The entire city of Los Angeles is in a state of nervous readiness
in the event this jury also acquits the four officers.
In addition to the contingency plans of the L.A.P.D. and the deployment of the National Guard,
countless community efforts are underway to administer crisis management.
Curtis Owens is the director of the African-American Community Unity Center.
When the uprisings broke out last April,
they administered over $2.1 million in food and clothing.
Owens talked with Pacifica this afternoon about the Unity Center
and how they intend to address a possible outbreak.
We are very actively involved in the community.
We speak to the Bloods and the Crips.
We speak to all of our neighbors in this particular community.
And out of that, we have been dealing directly with the leadership
of the respective youth organizations,
and we have their participation in an attempt.
Now, we can't control everybody.
I mean, we are individuals in this country.
It's a democracy, but to the extent that we can,
we think we're going to be able to maintain some resemblance of peace.
Well, maybe you can help me with a little rumor control here,
because the rumors are just flying, and I'm sure you've heard them all,
about what the Bloods and the Crips and the other youngsters in the community
may or may not be planning in response to a possible acquittal of the officers.
We've heard plans covering everything from random looting to launching a Tet Offensive.
Now, you're in touch with the community.
Can you dispel any of those rumors?
Well, yeah, I would categorically dispel it.
Now, we don't control the behavior of 8 million people.
I'm just saying, by and large, we can control it.
I think we have to be realistic about pain and realistic about the options that some individuals have in releasing pain.
You know, when we're stuck, we say, ouch, and that doesn't require a very scientific analysis.
We hurt and we respond.
And I think some individuals operate at that particular level.
To the extent that we can outreach and to the extent that we can measure and assess that outreach through feedback,
my tentacles tell me that we will have basically peace in the street.
So now when you say outreach, I'm assuming you mean you're going out there talking to the youngsters.
Exactly.
Neighbor to neighbor, agency to agency.
And what about one-on-one?
One-on-one.
As a matter of fact, one of the services that we are offering to those who may be in a moment of stress
and they don't have anyone to talk to, we are issuing a hotline today to individuals who just want to vent,
you know, in the street vernacular, who just want to rap.
Well, now, have you talked one-on-one to any of the members of the Bloods or the Crips?
Oh, I talk to them every day.
Okay, let me finish that.
About the fact that, okay, we all know there's no love loss between the LAPD, the boys in the blue and the boys in the hood.
So given the tensions and the situation, something could erupt.
Have you talked about how to handle your emotions in a possible situation like that?
Well, we've talked about that, and we have consultation and professionals, counselors and psychologists.
On a referral basis, we have access to phone numbers for people to call for professional help.
We are providing a 24-hour rescue unit facility for people to get off the street.
Tell us more about that rescue unit facility.
We have 100 beds in our facility, and we have approximately 30 to 40 beds at the other two sites that we have opened up.
What are these, mini hospitals?
We will provide basic shelter, food, and clothing from sunup to sundown.
It's just a rescue unit.
It's just getting people off the street to eliminate the potential or temptation for anyone to get in trouble.
And when I say in trouble, I don't mean just the residents to get in trouble, but for the police or the national guards to be tempted to bother people.
So one of our efforts will be to assist individuals in getting off the street, those who do not have homes.
I don't need to give you a demographic study of where we are.
I mean, three out of four people are poor here.
They live below the poverty index level.
Sixty percent of the mothers are mothers without fathers in the home.
So the demographics are as bad as or next to the delta.
When you are subjected to a situation where kids in this community have not had the opportunity to drink whole milk,
and they are of the age of about seven or eight years old,
and people who do not have refrigeration in their home in the windowsill serves that purpose,
then that gives you a reflection of the level in which people in America are living.
And what happened last April shouldn't be a surprise.
Well, you want to expound on that?
Oh, it's an indication of where we are as a society.
And not much has changed.
And I think America has to be realistic in looking at itself.
What have we produced as a society?
And all of us are accountable.
We're just not accountable here in South Central, but America is accountable.
And I think America has to remember some things that it has done to give birth to itself.
The Boston Tea Party wasn't done by accident.
It was out of frustration.
Curtis Owens, director of the African American Unity Center,
a nonprofit organization located in South Central Los Angeles.
And in local news, the National Conference of Black Mayors,
representing more than 300 cities, began a week-long conference in New York City today.
The issues at hand were the Senate's filibuster against President Clinton's economic plan
and the much-awaited verdict in the police beating trial in Los Angeles.
Paul Durienzo has that story.
The nation's black man,
the nation's black team,
and a justice problem.
The nation's black team,
the nation's black team,
and a nation's black team,
the nation's black man,
the nation's black team,
and the nation's black personnel,
And a nation's black country,
and a country's black fizer,
and the nation's black man,
and a nation's black community,
and a national corporation,
and a national city,
and the psychologists,
and the nation,
and the nation's black talent,
and the nation's black enemy.