So, if you're an avid comics fan, or just interested in the recent press the field has
generated and want to know more, tune in to Jim Freund's Hour of the Wolf, Saturday, August
28th, for an insight into one of comics' most influential creators, Jim Shooter.
I am Amina Akua-Brown, host of African Spiritual Vibes, with Emanations.
Please open your spirits, hearts, and ears to hear holistic spiritual conversations.
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African Spiritual Vibes will relieve stress and uplift your spirits with love and harmony,
every first and last Sunday from 9 to 11 p.m., right here on WBAI 99.5 FM.
And it's just about 10 o'clock here on Radio Station WBAI New York.
Time again for Off the Hook.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself off shaving, now I can't make a call.
It couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
Bum, did it, bum, for the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood.
Bum, did it, bum!
Bum, did it, bum!
Bum, did it, bum, did it, bum, did it, bum, did it, bum, did it, bum, did it, bum, did it, bum, did it, bum, did it, bum, did it, bum, did it, bum, did it, bum, did it, bum.
And a good evening to one and all.
This is Off the Hook, where we explore the unknown and, unlike certain spacecraft, we report back to you on our findings.
It's kind of like, you know, paging somebody and not getting a return call.
That's what the four folks at NASA are going through right now.
Hopefully that wayward spacecraft out there will answer the call or think the call home on its own.
But there are all kinds of other things going on that we need to be kept abreast on
as far as our telephones, our computers, and various things like that.
We're going to have a special guest tonight talking about something that could affect you.
We've talked about it before. We're going to talk about it again until we pound it into the ground
or until it becomes history, one or the other.
And, of course, we'll be taking your telephone calls.
But first, before we do anything, we're going to have a little bit of fun.
That's right, a little bit of fun here at the radio station
where we're going to reach out and do some actual participation in the hacking world.
We're going to find out what it's like to experiment, to take part in an adventure.
Yes, we're going to actually demonstrate what is known as scanning,
where we take our telephone line and we reach out and try and find something interesting.
What we have are a whole series of 800 numbers.
There's, I guess, a million of them out there, something like that.
Seven-digit numbers, virtually unlimited.
And what we're going to do is call a bunch of them
and see how long it takes to find something interesting.
Now, we have someone who's going to give us a random exchange.
Anybody want to give us a random exchange?
222?
Is that the best you can do?
843, that's much better.
Okay, we're going to scan the 843 exchange.
We're not going to tell you what we're dialing.
We're not going to give you any particular bits of information.
We're just going to show you how the wonderful world of hacking
just kind of keeps taking care of itself.
Yeah.
All right, let's get our dial tone.
Let's dial our first number.
Of course, those of you that can decode touch tones
will be able to understand what we're dialing.
But I'm going to start and go sequentially.
Let's see what we get.
A busy signal, okay.
Well, you see, that's something you come across quite a bit.
So, we simply hang up and try again.
What was it again? 843?
843.
All right, let's try this one.
Second number.
Thanks for calling GTW.
At the sound of the beep, would you please leave your message?
And when we return, we will return.
Ah.
Well, what we found there was an answering machine
that does something when you hit a tone.
If you hit the star key, it jumps to the beep.
Of course, that means it's a hackable answering machine.
You can get into whatever this company is
and listen to their messages, perhaps.
It doesn't seem very sophisticated in and of itself.
Let's try the next one down.
Notice how quickly these calls are going through, too.
We're sorry.
Your call cannot be completed as dialed.
Please check the number and dial again.
Okay, we're going to encounter that fairly often.
You know, most numbers don't work.
It's a fact of the telecommunications industry.
Real live scanning.
Okay, we know what that is, so we can skip the message.
Go on to the next one.
That's forwarding somewhere.
It's taking longer to go through.
Strange ring.
Comcast satellite.
Meridian office.
May I help you?
Oh, gosh.
I'm sorry.
I seem to have reached the wrong number.
Sir?
Yes.
I don't think I was supposed to reach this company.
Oh, okay.
This is the satellite office.
Oh, okay.
No, I don't need any satellites.
Thanks anyway.
Thank you.
Bye-bye.
All right.
Well, that was a mistake.
Okay.
What I'm going to...
I'm not going to allow that to go out over the air,
but possibly, if you notice, that transferred someplace.
It's quite possible that when they hang up,
it'll trip down to a dial tone up there since it transferred.
If it used the regular telephone company transferring mechanisms,
then in all likelihood it won't do that.
But if you use some cheap manufacturer design of something that will...
like a call forwarding system by, dare I say it, Radio Shack, which I have one,
you plug it into your phone line and you call line A.
Line A automatically forwards to line B.
And then when line B hangs up,
the caller who called in the first place gets line A's dial tone.
It's as simple as that.
And it's been going on for years.
And anybody that still uses archaic equipment like that,
I guess, deserves what they get.
But we're not going to promote that kind of activity here.
Let's go on to the next number.
There it is.
Okay.
Okay.
We know what that is.
So let's go on to the next one.
Ordinarily, this would be much faster
because you can dial your phone a lot faster
than you can do it over the radio.
The hacker rule is always to give something five rings
before giving up.
And we've done that.
Now we're giving up.
So we're going on to the next one.
Is this amazing?
The expectation of what we might find.
Harpswell Inn.
Oh, I'm sorry.
What city am I reaching?
Harpswell Inn.
Lookout Point House.
Oh, no, I didn't need that.
Okay, sorry.
Bye-bye.
Yeah, you'll get a lot of wrong numbers.
And sometimes you'll annoy people,
but most of the time you won't,
especially if it's 800 numbers
because those are going to businesses in the first place.
And there isn't any real harm to one particular person
since you're not calling their 800 number over and over again.
This is something that's been going on in the hacker world
for almost generations.
What we're doing here tonight
is simply showing you what is already happening.
We're not telling people
this is what you should do with your lives,
this is how you should spend every waking moment of the day.
But it's a fact of what happens
and the fact that many things out there are interesting to people.
I'm surprised we haven't found something
like a voicemail system or a computer.
Now, remember, we're not going to give out the numbers we're calling.
We just picked an exchange at random.
Hi, thanks for calling the Harpsil Inn.
Margaret, come on over here.
We're out watching the sunset,
and we'll give you a key to get back into the Dyers Road Cottage.
We do have vacancies tonight at the Harpsil Inn.
I don't think we should be listening to this.
Okay, just a regular answering machine there.
I don't know what we found there.
It seems like we found someone's personal line,
which is very unusual.
But more and more people have 800 numbers these days,
so there's no telling what you'll find out there.
Shall we try one more?
Let's try one more.
Okay, that's going to happen more often than not.
But there are so many 800 numbers out there.
This is something that I think every hacker has done at some point.
And it's something that you really can't legislate away.
I know people are trying to pass laws saying that scanning is illegal.
Well, it's not illegal.
It's something that is incredibly easy to do,
and there's no criminal intent.
It's just curiosity.
How many of you listened just now,
wondering what it was we were going to find?
Well, we didn't find much.
We found out that Margaret doesn't have the key to the cottage or whatever.
Usually, you find out things more interesting than that.
You find voicemail systems that allow you to wander around all over the place.
Virtually any company that answers at night without a human being is a voicemail system,
and that allows for endless exploration.
However, a word of caution,
if people are intending on doing things that are not quite legal,
such as charging phone calls to people that don't want you to charge phone calls to,
first of all, we certainly don't condone things like that.
But the facts should be known,
and the facts are that your number is transmitted whenever you make an 800 phone call.
So just be careful of that particular fact.
Remember, an 800 call is like making a collect phone call.
So that's all well and good.
800 scanning.
It's a first right here on Off the Hook.
And some other things that are happening that are first.
Of course, we talked about the potential for AT&T getting into the local phone business last week.
And now there's all kinds of other things happening.
The local phone companies,
which are affected by AT&T merging with the largest cellular operator in the country,
well, they're affected by that.
They want to get into the long-distance market now.
But not only that,
a judge has ruled that the phone companies,
or at least one particular phone company,
can now become more involved with cable TV programming.
Now, the cable TV companies are upset by this,
but they say,
okay, well, if you're going to allow this,
then you have to allow the cable TV companies to make local phone calls.
So now you're going to have cable TV companies providing dial tones for local phone calls.
You're going to have local phone companies providing long-distance services,
and you're going to have long-distance companies providing cellular service.
Yeah, it's hard enough making a phone call.
Now you're going to need a chart just to be able to navigate your way through it all.
I don't think the average person really cares all that much.
They just want it to be easy, and they want it to be cheap.
The question is,
are all these court cases,
is all this competition going to make it so?
Is it going to make it so that we can make calls easily,
not be ripped off, and understand what we're doing,
and at the same time have a choice?
It sure would be nice,
but only time will tell, I suppose.
If we'd like your opinions on that, as always,
you can either call us later,
or send them into the program,
off the hook,
care of WBAI,
505 8th Avenue,
New York, New York,
10018.
I'd also like to read something that appeared in today's Newsday
concerning governmental actions,
or inactions of the past.
It's an editorial called,
Keep Government Honest,
Preserve the Email.
The email, of course,
is electronic mail,
and the editorial reads as follows,
The federal courts have officially taken notice
that the government has entered the computer age,
and not a moment too soon.
Some White House computer tapes from the Reagan and Bush years
were illegally erased,
before a three-judge appellate panel ruled unanimously
that the law requires their preservation.
The messages on those tapes may have been perfectly innocuous,
unlike the ones that were useful to investigators and prosecutors
in the Iran-Contra affair,
but that's not the point.
The Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia
ruled this month
that the standards for preserving federal documents
apply to tapes as well as papers.
Journalists and historians should be no less grateful
for this decision than investigators and prosecutors.
While the government isn't necessarily in business
to make life easier for them,
it is supposed to be accountable to the people,
and if the people have no reliable way of finding out
what their government has been up to,
well, how do we know which rascals deserve to be thrown out
or, for that matter, who the White Hats really were?
The Clinton administration had taken a more moderate stand
on preserving computer records than its predecessors,
but it had still argued that the law's requirement
could be met by printing out copies of selected messages
and memos it deemed important.
Not good enough, the judges decided,
because printouts of electronic messages
on the White House and National Security Council systems
wouldn't normally show who had sent them to whom,
and that's a rather important part of it all.
In other words, the paper trail tells only part of the story.
The complete record is only in the computer,
and erasing a message there is essentially no different
from shredding an original document.
The Court's ruling doesn't solve
all the government's record-keeping problems.
Computer tapes degrade over time, for instance,
but it does make it harder for politicians
to rewrite history to suit their own convenience,
and the Court deserves our thanks for that.
That's today's editorial and Newsday.
Good for the most part,
but it misses the boat on a couple of things,
one being that information inside a computer
is extremely easy to modify,
and to say that the complete record
is only in the computer,
I don't know if that's necessarily true.
I mean, yeah, we could have printouts say
they don't tell the full story,
but once you have something inside a computer,
that's the truth.
It's awfully easy to modify who you sent something to,
when it was created,
what is said inside it,
and that's something that we should never lose sight of.
Also, the other point being,
how do we preserve all this deteriorating data?
Well, why not distribute it freely and openly
to all the people of this country
who will be more than happy to store it on their PCs?
After all, it's data.
There's zeros and ones.
We can store it in any form,
and the odds of it being changed or altered
on everybody's machine in exactly the same way
would be extremely small,
so that would be a very good way
to entrust the history of this nation
to the citizens of the country,
and also to allow the citizens of the country
to take an interest in what's going on.
Yeah, you could read some email
for the White House and the National Security Council,
but it's not exactly private.
You know, it concerns matters that involve us all.
So get involved.
Learn how it all works.
Hands-on access, that kind of thing.
One day it's breaking the rules.
The next day it's the rules of the game.
We'll be back in a couple of minutes
talking about the Clipper chip with an expert.
Why do I keep saying these songs leave the way?
It's all of your day from Boss DJ, Don.
The telephone keeps ringing
So I ripped it off the wall
I cut myself while shaving
Now I can't make a call
Now I've got a headache
Or maybe it's a tooth
I mean, no
This couldn't get much worse
I've got to tell the truth
No, it couldn't get much worse
But if they could, they would
Bumbly Bumper
The quest is back for worst
I hope that's understood
Bumbly Bumper
I just ran out of milk
There's no paper in the news
Bumbly Bumper
Now it's started raining
Lightly thunder through
Bumbly Bumper
And now we get to wonder
How bad can you get?
I've heard the thumbs in through my door
Makes my TV set
So while I'd have to sing the way
Listen to some sounds
I set my horse on fire
Purge it to the ground
Couldn't get much worse
But if they could, they would
Bumbly Bumper
The best, expect the worst
I hope the sun is good
Bumbly Bumper
Now I've got a console
My brother's on the run
I might have a change in luck
Before my day is done
Couldn't get much worse
But if they could, they would
Bumbly Bumper
The best, expect the worst
I hope the sun is good
Bumbly Bumper
Yeah, I can't understand it either
But it seems like one of our turntables is dying
Sounds really, really slow
But that's the way things go sometimes here at WBAI
Yeah
This is off the hook
Emmanuel Goldstein with you
Enough of that
That's, uh
Boy, I never heard it sound quite that bad
Yeah
Couldn't get much worse than that
We are now going to talk about the clipper chip
And how it affects each and every one of us
What I'd like to do first is read something that came out of Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility
And then we'll be talking to somebody from that organization
This is a call for comments on the clipper chip
That went out over the internet
It goes, I am writing to you because of your interest in the clipper chip
Simply stated, we need your help
As you know, the administration announced the clipper key escrow proposal on April 16th
Many organizations and companies raised concerns about the proposal
Congress held hearings
A government advisory panel is reviewing the proposal
The White House is studying the issue
Much is being said about the plan
Recently, the National Institute of Standards and Technology announced a formal call for public comments on clipper
That announcement is reprinted
We won't get into that announcement
But it will go on for some time
But we'll talk about it
We at CPSR believe that this administrative process may provide the best opportunity for the public to be heard on this proposal
Probably the dumbest privacy idea to come out of Washington since the 1965 proposal for a single national database
In 1989, when we raised concerns about the Lotus Marketplace product
Lotus Chief Executive Officer Jim Manzi received more than, I believe the number here is 730,000 messages
Something along those lines
I kind of garbled on the printout here
Lotus withdrew the product
We're trying to top that number
We issued a public call this week on the network and asked people to send their comments to NIST
We expressed some of our concerns
No doubt other issues will be raised
And some people will disagree
I'm writing to you to ask specifically if you write a story over the next month
Talk about the current state of Clipper and encourage your readers and listeners to send their comments to NIST
Time is critical
Comments must be received by September 28th
Okay, it's an important issue
And it's something that I think all of us do have some say in
We have Mark Rotenberg from Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility on the line with us
And Mark, can you possibly tell us, first of all, what is this whole Clipper chip thing for those people that have been asleep for the past several months?
Well, thanks for having me on the program, Emanuel
Clipper is about cryptography
It's about the privacy of computer messages that go through networks
And basically what this boils down to is a government proposal
Specifically a proposal from the intelligence agencies
To make sure that the cryptography that's used on the network can be broken by the government
So that no one in the United States can be using a technology that provides privacy that the government can't break
We think this is a very dangerous proposal
We were frankly surprised that the Clinton administration put this out a few months ago
It had all the markings of a good Cold War era idea
And why we're doing this now in the 1990s is very hard to understand
Well, as far as you can tell, who is behind the Clipper chip?
Is this something that's been in the makings for years or something that was totally devised by the Clinton administration?
Well, it certainly wasn't devised by the Clinton administration
They put it out and made it public, and I think that was a mistake
But the battle over cryptography has been going on since before World War II
Basically it has to do with the ability of the government to intercept communications
And the two agencies, two federal agencies that are most interested in this
Are, of course, the FBI and the National Security Agency
The FBI has authority to intercept communications within the United States
The NSA has authority under our law
Not necessarily foreign government law, but under our law
To intercept communications overseas
And I think what's happened over the last few years
Is that the FBI and the NSA got together and they said
Some of these new technologies might make it more difficult
For us to do the interception we want to do
And we have to get out in front
And the way we're going to get out in front
Is to try to impose a technical standard
A cryptography standard
That we know that we can break
And they sold the National Security Council on the idea
And they eventually sold the White House on the idea
And mid-April
A document went out
Over the President's signature
That said that the White House
Was formally considering
The adoption of this proposal
Now
If you could give our listeners
A worst-case scenario
What is the big threat with the Clipper chip?
What could it potentially do to our privacy?
Well
It's a little bit like saying
If you want to put
You know, a lock on your door
Or a lock on your car
If you want to have
A bank deposit box somewhere
With a key on it
You have a responsibility to make sure
That a copy of the key for that lock
Is deposited with the government
In the, you know
Possible situation
Where you become the subject
Of a criminal investigation
You have to be sure
That the government has the capability
To open those doors
To open those locks
And it seems to me
The problem here
Is that it suddenly treats
Every one of us
As if we are each
Potential suspects
In criminal investigations
As if any time
You or I might pick up the telephone
To make a call
Or to connect our computer
To a network
We might be engaging
In some criminal enterprise
And we just haven't operated
That way in the past
In this country
I mean, you know
Of course we have
In, you know
Some circumstances
I don't want to be quite so
Bold about that
But for the most part
These kinds of proposals
You know, are dragged out
In the sunlight
And eventually
Die the death
That they should
This one
For whatever reason
It may be
Seems to have a lot
Of support in the White House
And I think
The consequence for us
Is that our privacy
Will be diminished
And our treatment
As citizens
With certain rights
Will be lessened
But we seem to be moving
In a direction where
As Edwin Meese once said
If you have nothing to hide
Then
If you're not guilty
You have nothing to hide
Or something along those lines
With caller ID
Now suddenly
We are expected
To advertise our presence
When we make a telephone call
And if we have
Nothing to hide
We have nothing to worry about
If we're not guilty of anything
It doesn't matter
If we announce who we are
I see sort of the same mentality
With the Clipper chip
In that
You know, you have nothing
To, you have nothing to fear
If you haven't done
Anything wrong
There's, you know
Just, it's all part
Of the game now
People will be able
To look at what you've said
What you are doing
I mean, do you see a connection
Between the mentality there?
Certainly a connection
But in fact
It goes even a step further
Than what you describe
Because here we're talking
About technical standards
For telecommunications equipment
That will be used
Across the United States
This is not, you know
Specialized, top-secret
Classified networks
This is a proposal
For a certain chip
That's supposed to be included
In all voice telephones
In the United States
That means
That anytime you or I
Pick up a phone
You know, as I said
We're going to be treated
As potential suspects
And I guess what's
So ironic about this
In the 1990s
Is that this is exactly
The type of telecommunications
Equipment that is being
Dismantled in East Germany
I mean, this was
You know, what
Governments tried to set up
That didn't trust
Their citizens
That wanted to design
Networks for surveillance
Rather than privacy
That built in the ability
To eavesdrop
And in that manner
Tried to control
Though, as history has shown
Not very successfully
Political protest
And here we are
In the U.S.
Talking about building
This into our systems
With the Cold War
At an end
Now, you say that
Every time you pick up
The phone
This is going to be
Taking effect
I think the average
Person out there
Is saying, well
When I pick up the phone
Now, there's no
Encryption at all
So wouldn't this system
Be a bit more secure?
Well, you know
That's certainly
A consideration
The telephone network
Is changing
We're moving from
A hardwired network
Where information
Used to travel solely
Through copper wire
To a network
That's wireless
That uses cellular networks
And satellites
And many new technologies
The natural development
With these new
Wireless technologies
Is the inclusion
Of cryptography
And communication
Service providers
Are moving in that
Direction
Motorola and others
Saying we need
To incorporate
Cryptography
To make sure
That these
You know
These signals
Won't be intercepted
The problem is
That when the government
Steps in and says
If you're going to do that
We need to make sure
We have the ability
To break it
Suddenly the rules
Of technological development
Have been changed
Because now
Instead of designing
For privacy
As the companies
Would do normally
They're designing
For surveillance
Because the government
Is telling them
That's what they're
Required to do
And that's
That's a very
Different approach
What is AT&T's
Role in all this
They seem to have
Been involved
Right from the start
Well
AT&T
It's
You know
It's very complicated
I mean
I've been here
In Washington
In following these
Issues closely
And meeting with
Representatives of
The White House
And testifying at
Hearings with
Representatives from
AT&T
And frankly
It's just not clear
On the one hand
They say
They want to see
If this proposal
Is going to be
Accepted by the
Private sector
It's not clear
That they're prepared
To you know
Endorse it
For many of
The reasons
I just described
But on the other
Hand
The same day
That the
White House
Announced
The Clipper
Proposal
Back in April
AT&T was ready
To go
With its new
Voice data product
That incorporated
The Clipper
Technology
The White House
Had described
That same day
And what was
Obvious of course
Was that there
Had been some
Negotiations
Between AT&T
And the National
Security Agency
Prior to the
Announcement of
Clipper
But the National
Security Agency
Set in effect
If you
Agree to
Incorporate
This new
Technical standard
That we're
Proposing
We won't
Give you any
Hassle
On including
Cryptography
In your new
Telephone services
So the fact
That AT&T
Had advanced
Knowledge of
This
Is there
Anything
Illegal about
That
Or
Well
There are
Certainly
Smaller
Communication
Service
Providers
And companies
In the
Cryptography
Business
That weren't
Very
Pleased
About this
There was
One company
In D.C.
Said it was
Anti-competitive
And improper
For the government
To be engaging
In these kinds
Of arrangements
I don't know
Of any
Formal legal
Challenge
Along those
Lines
But certainly
Raises some
Questions
Why the
Why the
Sudden call
To arms
Now
Is something
Looming
On the
Horizon
Well
The sudden
Call to
Arms
Is
We think
This is
Perhaps
The most
Significant
Privacy
Issue
In the
United States
At the
Moment
It seems
To some
People
Sort of
The
Well
People are
Concerned
About FBI
Or
They're
Concerned
About
Civil
Liberties
But this
Is the
First
Time
Really
The first
Time
That the
Federal
Government
Has attempted
To impose
A technical
Standard
To
Facilitate
Surveillance
Read about
It in
1984
And you
Read about
It in
Science
Fiction
But before
April of
1993
The U.S.
Government
Never said
We need to
Make sure
That telephones
In this
Country
Can be
Wiretapped
And that's
Why we've
Encouraged
People
Particularly
People who
Are interested
In computers
And networking
Technology
To express
Their views
On the
Proposal
To contact
The president
To contact
The National
Institute of
Standards and
Technology
Which in
Fact I think
Has done
An admirable
Job trying to
Sort through
All these
Issues
Because there
Are some
Difficult issues
Here
But they
Need to
Hear from
More people
They need
To see
This as
The type
Of issue
Which affects
A lot
Of people
Which it
Does
How can
People make
Their views
Known
Well I
Think
Emmanuel
You probably
Have in
Front of
You
The contact
Information
For NIST
I don't
Have that
Here
Certainly
That information
Will be
Helpful
They can
Also
Contact
The White
House
And
You can
Put on
The cover
Of the
Envelope
Clipper
And then
Write to
The president
And say
That you
Have some
Concerns
About the
Proposal
Describe
What your
Concerns
Are
Actually
This is
Kind of
Embarrassing
The printer
Jams
Right at
The point
Where
The NIST
Information
Is being
Given
Out
But we
Do have
Information
For CPSR
In fact
Could you
Tell us
Something
About CPSR
Sure
What kind
Of group
Is it
How long
Have you
Been around
For
National
Membership
Organization
We started
In 1982
It's
People
In the
Computing
Profession
Who are
Interested
In the
Impact
Of
Technology
On
Society
Over the
Last few
Years
We've
Become
Particularly
Involved
In
Privacy
And
Civil
Liberties
Issues
And
Trying
To
Ensure
That
New
Communication
Technologies
Protect
Values
That are
Important
Such
As
Privacy
And
As I
Said
It's
Membership
Based
We've
Had a
Lot
Of
Support
And
Input
From
Our
Members
In
The
Development
Of
Our
Positions
On
Issues
Such
As
Clipper
And
In fact
Several
Of
Our
Members
Now
Are
Reviewing
Various
Technical
Aspects
Of
The
Proposal
We're
We're
Talking
To
Mark
Rotenberg
Of
Computer
Professionals
For
Social
Responsibility
He's
In
Washington
D.C.
And
We're
Talking
About
The
Clipper
Chip
And
The
Importance
Of
People
Like
You
Speaking
Out
Either
In
Favor
Or
In
Opposition
To
It
I'd
Certainly
Like
To
Hear
Some
Arguments
In
Favor
Of
It
Because
They've
Certainly
Been
Few
And
Far
Between
Among
The
Computer
Users
That
I've
Seen
Anyway
Mark
Have
You
Seen
Any
Spontaneous
Showings
Of
Support
Among
The
Computer
Users
No
I
Mean
There's
You
Know
As
I
Said
At
The
Beginning
There's
Strong
Concern
Within
The
FBI
And
The
National
Security
Agency
That
A
Fundamental
Part
Of
What
They
Do
Which
Involves
The
Interception
Of
Electronic
Communications
Could
Be
Jeopardized
By
New
Encryption
Technology
And
People
Are
Sensitive
To
That
Concern
I
Don't
Think
You
Can
Dismiss
It
But
Like
A
Lot
Of
Issues
That
We
Face
Regarding
Proper
Scope
Of
Government
Authority
And
The
Balance
Between
Individual
Liberty
And
Public
Safety
Sometimes
The
Proposals
Bring
Many
Unforeseen
Costs
And
One
Of
The
Cost
With
This
Particular
Proposal
Is
Giving
The
Government
The
Authority
To
Determine
How
Much
Privacy
People
In
The
United
States
Are
Entitled
To
By
Virtue
Of
The
Technical
Design
Of
The
Communication
Network
That
That's
Very
High
Cost
We're
Taking
Phone
Calls
At
212-279-3400
If you
Have
Any
Questions
Or
Comments
On
This
Issue
Or
Other
Technological
Things
And
Mark
Can we
Just ask
You
This is
A
Commonly
Asked
Question
To
Me
As
Well
As
To
Other
People
On
The
Net
I
Would
Imagine
Can
The
Clipper
Chip
Be
Expanded
To
Encompass
More
Than
Just
Cordless
Telephones
And
Things
Like
That
Well
I
Think
So
I
Mean
I
Think
The
Long
Term
Goal
Is
That
There
Would
Be
Something
Based
On
The
Clipper
Design
Or
More
Specifically
What's
Called
The
Key
Escrow
Requirement
Which
Means
Leaving
A
Copy
Of
The
Key
With
The
Government
In
Every
Telephone
And
Telecommunications
Equipment
In
The
United
States
I
That
That's
The
Intent
Okay
Again
Our
Phone
Number
Is
212-279-3400
Let's
See who's
Out
There
Good
Evening
You're
On
Off
The
Hook
I
Have
A
Couple
Of
Questions
They
Don't
Pertain
To
The
Clipper
But
I
Was
Wondering
If
I
Could
Ask
Them
Now
Well
If
You
Make
It
Quick
One
About
Abusive
Messages
On
Bulletin
Board
Systems
If
Let's
Say
A
User
Pulls
Up
A
Well
It
Could
Be
Considered
A
Form
Of
Harassment
If
You're
Constantly
Barraging
Somebody
With
Obscene
Or
Harassing
Messages
They
Could
Conceivably
Do
Something
Along
Those
Lines
It's
The
Same
As
Making
A
Phone
Call
In
That
Respect
Also
One
More
Question
Does
The
Combo
Redbox
DTMF
Dialer
Still
Work
Any
Redbox
Still
Works
Yes
Because
I
Think
That
Operators
Can
The
Computers
Can
Recognize
A
Fake
Coin
Tone
Computers
Aren't
Quite
As
Good
As
Humans
But
There
Are
Some
Levels
Of
Standards
And
Some
Payphones
That
Are
Better
Than
Others
But
Things
Haven't
Improved
All
That
Much
As
Far
As
That
Kind
Of
Security
Goes
Also
Do
You
Know
An
Automatic
Number
Identification
For
Number
For
The
516
Area
Code
Are
You
Talking
About
Just
A
Number
To
Call
To
Find
Out
Your
Phone
Number
Okay
Well
There's
There's
One
Called
ANAC
Which
Is
Automatic
Number
Announcement
I
Don't
Want
To
Quibble
About
Terms
But
A
And
I
Is
Something
That
You
Get
In
A
Different
Manner
I
Call
And
I
Find
Out
The
Number
I
Don't
Okay
That's
You
Can
Dial
958
In
This
Area
To
Get
That
You
Also
Dial
511
Alright
Thanks
A lot
Okay
Bye
Bye
Yes
The
Quest
For
Knowledge
I
Hope
People
Aren't
Harassing
Bulletin
Board
Operators
Because
It's
A
Labor
Of
Love
And
Some
Matter
Insanity
212
279
3400
Good
Evening
Hello
Yes
Go
Ahead
You
Have
A
Question
Yes
I
Had
I
Been
Listening
For
The
Past
Ten
Minutes
And
I
Missed
The
First
Part
Of
The
Show
But
I
Was
Wondering
Any
Thought
As
To
The
Possibility
That
The
Government
Will
Not
Actually
Listen
To
Objections
But
We'll
Go
Ahead
With
This
Policy
Of
Forced
Entry
You
Forced
Exposure
To
Tapping
At
All
Costs
Because
Of
Their
Ability
To
Stonewall
To
Hold
Up
Type
Certification
To
Harass
In
Any
Number
Of
Ways
And
In
The
Face
Of
That
Possibility
Is
There
Much
Thought
In
The
Computer
Community
On
Independently
Developing
Ways
Of
Encryption
That
Can
Be
Done
Regardless
Of
Government
Policies
Or
Prohibitions
Because
It
May
Come
To
That
It
Seems
That
It's
Going
To
Be
Pretty
Impossible
To
Keep
A
Measured
Gradation
Or
Balancing
The
National
Security
Aspects
And
Protecting
Privacy
Of
Reasonable
People
And
So
For
Either
It'll
Tend
To
Absolutes
It'll
Swing
One
Way
Or
The
Other
And
If
The
Government
Tries
To
Tilt
It
One
Way
It
Seems
That
We
Have
To
Be
Prepared
To
Do
Things
Independently
Regardless
Of
Government
Prohibition
Or
Permission
I'll
Let
Mark
Answer
That
Question
On
The
Radio
Thanks
For
Your
Call
Mark
Well
I
Think
The
Caller
Raises
A
Very
Fair
Point
And
Certainly
There
Are
People
Particularly
In
The
Cryptography
Community
Who
Have
Said
I'll
Go
Ahead
And
Design
My
Keys
And
My
Algorithms
And
Let
The
Government
Try
To
Beat
It
If
They
Can
There's
A
Problem
With
That
I
Mean
It's
Almost
A
Form
Of
Privacy
Survivalism
And
That
Is
That
You
Know
We're
Hoping
To
Develop
Laws
And
Policies
That
Respect
And
That
People
Can
Say
You
Know
These
Are
These
Are
Good
Wills
For
All
Of
Us
To
Live
By
The
System
Breaks
Down
At
The
Point
That
We
Can't
Develop
Those
Rules
Or
Live
By
Those
Rules
And
The
Problem
Which
I
Think
You
Call
Is
Absolutely
Right
About
Is
If
The
Government
Pushes
Too
Far
In
One
Direction
People
Are
Going
To
Start
To
Push
Back
And
You
Know
I
Don't
I
Don't
Know
Where
That
Takes
Us
I'm
Hoping
That
We
Can
Continue
In
The
Spirit
Of
The
Federal
Wiretap
Law
Which
Basically
It's
A
Good
Law
I
Mean
There's
There's
Abuse
But
The
Federal
Wiretap
Law
Says
About
Wiretap
That
This
Is
An
Investigative
Method
Of
Last
Resort
You
Do
This
After
Everything
Else
Has
Failed
And
If
Nothing
Else
Has
Worked
And
You
Still
Need
To
Pursue
The
Investigation
At
That
Point
Only
Is
A
Judge
In
The
United
States
Allowed
To
Give
A
Law
I
You
Know
From
A
Privacy
Viewpoint
I
Think
That's
A
Great
Principle
And
The
Problem
With
Clipper
Is
It
Pretty
Much
Stands
It
On
Its
Head
And
Says
No
It's
Not
It's
Not
Investigative
Method
Of
Last
Resort
It's
A
Design
Goal
Of
First
Consideration
And
If
You
Want
To
Put
A
Telecommunications
Product
Out
There
You
Better
Be
Sure
That
It
Can
Be
Wiretapped
Or
Else
We're
Not
Going
To
Let
You
Sell
It
Do
You
Think
There
Are
Any
Inherent
Insecurities
In
The
In
The
System
Will
Unauthorized
People
Be
Able
To
Decrypt
These
Things
Well
That's
A
Problem
The
Key
Escrow
Proposal
Which
Basically
Requires
That
Two
Government
Agencies
Or
Quasi
Government
Agencies
Be
Found
That
Will
Hold
Half
Of
Each
Key
Has
Been
A
Real
Stumbling
Block
For
The
Proponents
Because
It's
Not
Clear
What
Federal
Agencies
You
Would
Put
In
This
Role
You
Say
To
The
FBI
You
Know
Well
Why
Don't
You
Hold
The
Keys
But
Be
Sure
Not
To
Give
The
Keys
To
The
Agents
Until
The
Courts
Have
Authorized
The
Search
That's
Certainly
Not
Adequate
Protection
But
For
Other
Agencies
That
Aren't
In
The
Law
Enforcement
Business
Who
Might
Be
Asked
To
Hold
The
Keys
They're
Suddenly
Facing
An
Enormous
Responsibility
If
Their
Systems
Were
Compromised
Well
One
Thing
That
I'm
Trying
To
Picture
In
My
Mind
Is
How
Such
A
Massive
Undertaking
Would
Be
Handled
I
Mean
Are
They
Going
To
Keep
A
List
Of
Everybody
And
And
What
Particular
Model
Of
Phone
They
Have
And
Match
That
Up
When
They
Want
To
Do
A
Wiretap
You
Know
I
Don't
Know
And
I
Don't
Think
They've
Thought
About
That
Either
I
Mean
You
Imagine
That
If
This
Thing
Really
Were
To
Play
Out
Somewhere
In
The
United
States
It
Almost
Have
To
Be
A
Fort
Knox
Of
Privacy
Where
All
The
Copies
Of
The
Keys
Were
Being
Held
For
All
The
Telecommunications
That
Were
Authorized
To
Move
Through
The
Network
And
That
Someone
Could
Go
To
You
Know
This
Giant
Database
And
Find
The
Appropriate
Key
For
Particular
Communication
For
An
Authorized
Law
Enforcement
Investigation
And
Then
You
Start
To
Wonder
What
Were
To
Happen
If
All
That
Data
Were
Publicly
Disclosed
Or
Misused
Or
Compromised
All
Right
Let's
Go
On
To
Our
Next
Phone
Call
212
279
3400
Talking
To
Mark
Rotenberg
Computer
Professionals
With
Social
Responsibility
About
The
Threat
Of
The
Clipper
Chip
And
What
You
Can
Do
To
Voice
Your
Opinion
Good
Evening
You're
On
The
Air
Hello
Yeah
Go
Ahead
Emanuel
Yeah
You don't
Have to
Shout
Okay
Emanuel
I was
A couple
Of
Comments
I
Was
Making
Some
Phone
Calls
And
I
Found
Some
Numbers
I
Thought
You
Miss
Listen
Might
Enjoy
What
Kind
Numbers
Are
These
Okay
I
Found
One
That's
Like
An
Information
Service
They
Give
Information
Like
The
Same
Type
Of
Stuff
A
900
Number
Would
Give
You
Except
For
The
Sex
Calls
They
Don't
Provide
That
Time
Of
Day
Weather
Video
Game
Tips
Games
Soap
Opera
Updates
Stuff
Like
That
Without
The
Cost
Of
The
900
Call
All
It
Is
Call
To
Brooklyn
Now
Is
What
Kind
Of
Service
Is
This
They
Call
It
The
Talking
Yellow
System
They
Are
A
Little
Like
Advertisements
Oh
So
You
Have
To
Listen
To
An
Advertisement
Before
You
Hear
The
Advertisement
Of
Like
A
Local
Drug
Store
Or
Whatever
I
See
Well
That's
Certainly
Much
Better
Than
Paying
36
Cents
To
Get
The
Time
Absolutely
Like
I
Said
Whatever
It
Costs
You
To
Make
A
Call
To
Brooklyn
That
That
What
It
Costs
Okay
So
Give
Us
That
Phone
Number
Alright
That's
718
9
2
That
Was
Call
9
They're
Interfering
With
You
Aren't
They
The
Phone
Company
Trying
To
Prevent
You
From
Getting
Your
Message
Across
Okay
It's
9
2
1
1400
If
I
Remember
Correctly
And
If
You
Don't
Remember
Correctly
A
Bunch
Of
People
Be
Waking
Up
Some
Poor
Old
Lady
In
Brooklyn
And
The
Second
Number
I
Found
There's
One
In
Manhattan
It's
Called
Ralphie's
Bob
City
And
All
It
Basically
Is
A
Place
To
Leave
Comments
To
A
Question
Of
The
Month
Type
Of
Thing
It's
Kind
Of
Like
A
Little
Clip
Like
A
Club
And
People
Have
Been
Calling
For
15
Years
15
Years
Why
Why
Don't
You
Help
Them
Get
All
Kinds
Of
New
Call
That
That's
2
1
2
5
5
505
5091
Okay
And
A
Question
Where
Can
I
Get
A
Demon
Dialer
You'd
Have
To
Get
The
Demon
Dialer
Through
Hack
Tech
Technologies
In
Holland
I
Can
Give
You
A
Phone
Number
For
Them
Okay
Hold
On
A
Sec
It'll
Be
On
The
Air
I'll
Record
It
That
Way
Go
Okay
It's
Overseas
Of
Course
So
You'd
Have
To
Dial
0
1
The
Country
Code
Is
31
The
City
Code
Is
20
And
The
Phone
Number
Is
600
1480
And
Don't
Be
Afraid
By
The
Dutch
Recordings
Because
It
Turns
Into
English
Eventually
Okay
Another
Question
The
So
Called
Red
Box
Or
Black
Box
Where
Could
One
Acquire
Something
Like
That
Well
You
Have
To
Look
In
Magazines
Like
2600
Catalogues
Like
Lumpanix
Things
Like
That
And
There's
Generally
Kits
Floating
Around
But
There
Is
No
One
Entity
That
Sells
That
Kind
Of
Material
That
I
Know
Or
Have
An
Address
For
Is
There
A
Number
For
2600
I'll
Give
You
The
Phone
Number
It's
516
751
2600
What
Was
The
End
Of
That
2600
2600
Yeah
I'd
Appreciate
It
Okay
Emmanuel
Love
The
Show
Okay
Thanks
For
By
The
Way
One
More
Thing
Yeah
Make
It
Quick
Please
I
Think
You
Should
Have
A
Disgruntled
Phone
Company
Any
Disgruntled
Phone
Company
You
Know
There
Are
So
Many
Of
A
People
Don't
Know
About
Making
The
Phone
Ring
Back
And
The
958
And
The
511
But
I
Mean
We
Want
To
Know
The
Real
Stuff
Yeah
I
Know
What's
Really
Going
On
Behind
The
Shoulder
For
Yeah
Okay
Well
Our
Doors
Are
Open
I
Appreciate
It
Alright
Thanks
For
And
You
Know
It
Raises
An
Interesting
Point
I
Was
Going
To
Bring
This
Up
Before
But
This
Sort
Of
Clinches
It
When
I
Woke
Up
Today
I
Found
That
Our
Neighborhood
Had
Suffered
A
Power
Failure
And
Unfortunately
Due
To
My
Wisdom
Everything
In
My
House
Runs
On
Electricity
So
I
Had
No
Idea
What
Time
It
Was
I
Could
Not
Even
Find
Out
What
Time
It
Was
Because
The
Clock
Is
Electric
The
Radio
Is
Plugged
Cars
No
Chance
I
Don't
Even
Have
A
Wrist
Watch
There
Was
No
Way
To
Find
Out
What
Time
It
Was
Other
Than
Looking
At
The
Sun
And
Trying
To
Figure
That
Out
So
You
Would
Say
Okay
Break
Down
Spend
The
36
Cents
And
Call
The
Time
Call
The
Time
And
Find
Out
What
Time
It
Is
For
36
Cents
I
Mean
Do
We
Ever
Stop
To
Think
How
Ridiculous
That
Is
36
Cents
For
Someone
I
Mean
Do
People
Charge
You
In
The
Street
When
You
Ask
Them
What
Time
Is
It
No
Of
Course
Not
It
It's
Considered
A
Common
Courtesy
But
With
The
Phone
Company
Everything
That's
A
Common
Courtesy
Is
Worthy
Of
A
Fee
And
For
That
Reason
I
Have
976
Numbers
Blocked
On
My
Phone
So
Even
If
I
Had
Succumbed
To
That
Temptation
I
Couldn't
Have
Done
It
Anyway
Because
There's
No
Way
To
Break
Through
That
Security
Barrier
So
Folks
You
Know
What
I
Did
To
Break
Through
And
Figure
Out
What
Time
It
Is
For
Absolutely
Nothing
Oh
You'd
Like
To
Know
Wouldn't
You
Okay
I'll
Tell
You
I'll
Tell
You
I
Got
On
Line
Two
And
I
Called
Line
One
And
Line
One
Has
Caller
ID
And
On
My
Caller
ID
Box
Is
The
Time
Of
Day
Supplied
Free
Of
Charge
By
New York
Telephone
Isn't
That
Something
They
Send
It
As
Part
Of
The
Data
Stream
They
Send
The
Time
Of
Day
So
All
I
Have
To
Do
Is
Dial
A
Number
I
Don't
Have
To
Pick
It
Up
I
Don't
Have
To
Pay
For
The
Phone
Call
I
Just
Dial
That
Caller
ID
Box
And
I
See
The
Time
Day
And
I
See
The
Date
Too
In
Case
I'm
Really
Out
Of
It
I
Don't
Know
What
Date
It
Is
And
Who
Knows
You
Know
They
Haven't
Figured
Out
A
Way
To
Charge
You
To
Find
Out
What
Day
It
Is
But
If
They
Could
They
Would
Now
You
Might
Say
It
Cost
Six
Dollars
And
Fifty
Cents
Right
Per
Month
To
Have
Caller
ID
But
If
You
Make
I
Six
Dollars
And
Fifty
Cents
A
Month
For
Caller
ID
Which
In
It
Is
An
Outrage
Charge
But
It
Is
A
Question
Of
What
Is
The
Most
Economical
Rip
Off
All right
Let's
Take
Another
Phone
Call
Good
Evening
You're
On
Hi
Emmanuel
How are
You
Regarding
That
Earlier
Caller
Calling
For
Free
For
The
Time
And
Stuff
The
Talking
Yellow
Book
I
Used
To
Call
To
Find
About
Where
The
Weather
Cost
Couldn't
Believe
It
So
Just
Putting
It
Out
There
The
Other
Thing
Is
As
Far
As
Clipper
Chip
Goes
A
Very
Important
Issue
Over
Here
Don't
Mean
To
Skirt
It
And
You
Have
A
Very
Important
Guest
Over
Here
And
If
You
Could
Go
In
A
Little
More
Detail
As
What
We
Could
Do
On
A
Great
Show
Okay
Thanks
For
I
Got
To
But
That's
It
More
On
Practical
For
The
National
Institute
Of
Standards
And
Technology
And
The
Reason
That
It's
Important
To
Contact
Them
Is
Because
They're
The
Federal
Agency
That's
Really
Supposed
To
Do
The
Evaluation
For
The
White
House
I
Said
Before
You
Can
Write
To
The
President
It's
Not
A
Bad
Thing
To
Do
And
Those
Letters
Do
Get
Read
By
Somebody
But
If
You
Want
To
Go
To
The
People
Who
Are
Making
The
Decision
Right
Now
That's
The
National
Institute
Of
Standards
And
Technology
And
You
Can
Call
Them
Up
The
Number
Is
301
975
2913
And
Ask
For
Dr.
Dennis
Branstad
D-R-A-N-S-T-A-D
Or
You
Can
Write
To
Dr.
Branstad
At
The
National
Institute
Of
Standards
And
Technology
Gatiesburg
G-A-I-T-H-E-R-S-B-U-R-G
Gatiesburg
Maryland
20899
I-S-T
Now
What is
His
Position
In
All
Of
This
He's
The
Senior
Fellow
The
Person
Who's
In
Charge
Of
Making
The
Review
Coordinating
The
Review
Of
The
Clipper
Proposal
And
He's
Received
Comments
From
A
Number
Of
People
So
Far
We're
Encouraging
More
People
To
Send
Their
Views
As
Well
Okay
Let's
Take
One
More
Phone
Call
Then
We'll
Give
Out
Information
On
How
To
Contact
CPSR
And
Then
We're
Out
Of
Here
I
Have
I
Have
I
Have
I
Have
This
Good
Evening
Hello
Oh
It's
Not
Hi
How
Are
You
Hi
I
I
Like to
Know
What
Do
You
Think
Is
More
Successful
Call
ID
Or
Call
Trace
Well
I
Don't
Know
What
You
Mean
More
Successful
Do
You
Mean
More
People
Like
Say
Call
ID
Can
Tell
The
Person
That's
Calling
Can
Tell
You
The
Number
Of
The
Person
That's
Calling
And
If
You
Do
Pick
It
Up
For
Call
Trace
It
Can
Tell
You
Where
They
At
Sounds
Like
You
Have
Call
Waiting
Yeah
Okay
Well
I
Don't
Think
Many
People
Use
Call
Trace
Because
It
Cost
A
Dollar
Fifty
Every
Time
You
Dial
Star
Five
Seven
Caller
ID
Is
A
Once
Per
Month
Charge
And
It
Gives
You
Basically
All
The
Information
Right
There
Whereas
If
You
You
Don't
Ever
Find
Out
The
Person
You
Tracing
But
If
You
Harass
The
Phone
Company
Enough
They'll
Send
Some
Sort
Of
A
Letter
To
This
Person
Is
There
A
Way
To
Prevent
Call
ID
To
Find
Out
Your
Number
Say
That
Again
Is
There
A
Way
To
Prevent
Call
Yeah
Star
Star
Six
Seven
Will
Block
Your
Number
From
Showing
Up
It'll
Show
Private
Number
Instead
However
You
Can
Still
Be
Called
Back
With
Star
Six
Nine
You
Can
Still
Be
Traced
With
Star
Five
Seven
Oh
Okay
All
Right
All
Right
Thanks
For
Calling
All
Okay
That's
Responsibility
I
Understand
They
Have
A
Chapter
Here
In
New
York
Yes
We
Do
I'm
Sorry
I
Don't
Have
The
Name
For
The
Contact
Person
I
Do
It's
David
Friedlander
Oh
Good
Okay
I'm
Glad
David's
Still
Doing
It
People
Can
Reach
Me
In
Washington
My
Number
Is
Telephone
Number
Is
202
544
9240
That's
CPSR
By
Telephone
If
You're
On
A
Computer
Network
And
Have
An
Email
Account
The
Easiest
Way
To
Reach
Us
Is
Probably
CPSR
At
CPSR
Dot
Or
G
And
We'd
Be
Happy
To
Send
You
More
Information
About
Us
And
Also
About
The
Clipper
Proposal
Alright
This
Is
A
Topic
Of
Course
We'll
Be
Covering
In
Weeks
Ahead
Do
You
Expect
Anything
Concrete
To
Happen
This
Year
Oh
Absolutely
The
NIST
Review
Process
Wraps
Up
At
The
End
Of
September
Alright
These
Are
Exciting
Times
Ahead
Of
Us
Then
We'll
Have
To
Follow
This
Very
Closely
And
If
Any
Listeners
Find
Out
Anything
They
Can
Contact
Us
Here
At
The
Radio
Station
WBAI
505
8th
Avenue
New
York
10018
Mark
Thank you
Very
Much
For
Being
With
Us
Tonight
And
I'm
Sure
We'll
Be
Talking
Again
In
The
Future
Thank
You
We'll
Be
Back
Again
Next
Week
With
Another
Edition
Of
Off
The
Hook
Next
Wednesday
Night
At
10
O'clock
Stay
tuned
For
A
Rebroadcast
Of
The
Evening
News
Here
On
WBAI
New
York
It's
Emmanuel
Goldstein
Saying
Good
Night
And
Have
A
Pleasant
Week
But
But
If
They
Could
They
Would
Bumbly
Bump
For
The
Best
Expect
The
Worst
I
Hope
That
Understood
Bumbly
Bo
Great
On
On
The
Eve
Of
The
30th
Anniversary
March
On
Washington
For
Jobs
Justice
And
Peace
Building
Bridges
Will
Talk
With
Special
Guest
NAACP
Executive
Director
Dr.
Benjamin
Chavis
About
The
March
The
NAACP
And
The
Issues
Before
The
Nation
Also
A
Cultural
Preview
Of
The
Do
The
Right
Thing
Festival
A
Multicultural
Festival
To
Be
Held
In
Prospect
Park
Bandshell
In
September
So
Tune
Into
Building
Bridges
Your
Community
Labor
Report
Thursday
August
26th
At
7
30
PM
Over
WBAI
99.5
FM
This
Is
Robin
Field
Host
Of
Broadway
Time
Capsule
Where
We
Spend
Two
Hours
Every
Saturday
Morning
Listening
To
Highlights
From
Virtually
Every
Musical
That
Ever
Made
It
To
Broadway
Before
1940
Featuring
Hundreds
Of
Original
Cast
Performances
As
Well
As
Commentary
By
The
Show's
Creators
And
Stars
You'll
Hear
Al
Jolson
Fanny
Bryce
Fred
Astaire
And
Ethel
Waters
Singing
Their
Greatest
Hits
Helen
Morgan
Eddie
Cantor
Jimmy
Durante
And
Ethel
Merman
Offering
Personal
Reminiscences
And
Anecdotes
And
Richard
Rogers
Lawrence
Hart
Oscar
Hammerstein
George
Gershwin
And
Cole
Porter
Even
Ziegfeld
Himself
Discussing
Their
Careers
And
Productions
So
Wake
Up
To
The
American
Musical
Theater
With
Broadway
Time
Capsule
Saturday
Mornings
At
8.30
Over
WBAI
New
York
99.5
FM
Good
Evening
In the
News
Tonight
Sheikh
Omar
Abdelrahman
Tops
The
List
Of
Alleged
Terrorists
In
A
Sweeping
New
Federal
Indictment
That
Spans
Years
And
Oceans
In
Its
Scope
The
U.S.
Slaps
Sanctions
On
China
And
Pakistan
For
A
1992
Sale
Of
Missile
Parts
Middle
East
Peace
Talks
Resume
Next
Week
Under
A
Cloud
Of
Controversy
And
Is
A
Magazine
Targeted
At
Inmates
A
Sensitive
Concept
Or
Exploitation
With
These
And
Other
Stories
I'm
David
Sears
In
New
York
With
Verna
Avery
Brown
In
Washington
And
This
Is
The
News
For
Wednesday
August
25
1993
The
Radical
Muslim
Cleric
Whose
Followers
Have
Been
Charged
In
Two
Terror
Bombing
Plots
In
Manhattan
Was
Himself
Indicted
In
The
Case
Today
Sheikh
Omar
Abdelrahman
And
Three
Others
Including
The
Man
Accused
Of
Assassinating
Militant
Rabbi
Mayor
Kahane
Also
Were
Charged
In
The
Federal
Indictment
With
Conspiring
To
Murder
Egyptian
President
Hosni
Mubarak
Kahane's
Alleged
Assassin
El
Saeed
Noser
Is
Being
Indicted
On
New
Charges
In
That
Killing
Noser
Was
Acquitted
Of
State
Murder
Charges
But
Is
In
State
Prison
On
Related
Weapons
Convictions
The
Federal
Indictment
Charges
Noser
With
Racketeering
For
Having
Murdered
Kahane
By
Shooting
Him
To
Death
In
A
Manhattan
Hotel
It
Says
That
He
Also
Attempted
To
Kill
A
U.S.
Postal
Officer
As
He
Fled
The
New
Indictment
Alleges
That
11
Men
Previously
Charged
With
A
Failed
Plot
To
Bomb
The
Lincoln
And
Holland
Tunnels
The
George
Washington
Bridge
And
A
Building
Housing
The
FBI
Offices
Were
Also
Involved
In
The
World
Trade
Center
Blast
The
February
26th
Attack
Killed
Six
People
Injured
More
Than
One
Thousand
And
Displaced
Hundreds
Of
Businesses
For
Weeks
Many
Of
The
Defendants
Were
Followers
Of
The
55
Year
Old
Abdel
Rahman
Who
Preached
At
Mosques
In
Brooklyn
And
Jersey
City
The
Egyptian
Cleric
Has
Been
In
Federal
Custody
In
Otisville
New
York
Since
July
2nd
After
An
Immigration
Judge
Ordered
Him
Deported
Named
With
Abdel Rahman
And
Nosser
In
The
Alleged
Plot
To
Assassinate
Mubarak
Were
Mohammed
Abul
Hulima
The
Brother
Of
Defendant
In
The
Trade
Center
Bombing
And
Abdo
Mohammed
Hagag
Who
Was
Arrested
On
A
Similar
Charge
Last
Month
The
New
Indictment
Had
Been
Promised
A
Month
A
By
Prosecutors
Who
Were
Transcribing
Hundreds
Of