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And it's just about 10 o'clock here on radio station WBAI in New York.
It's Wednesday night.
Time for Off the Hook.
The telephone keeps ringing So I ripped it off the wall
I cut myself while shaving Now I can't make a cough
It couldn't get much worse But if they could, they would
Bum-diddly-bum But I best expect the worst
I hope that's understood Bum-diddly-bum
Bum-diddly-bum
Well, sometimes it's good to hear the whole theme, don't you think?
This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
The program is Off the Hook.
We're back after two weeks of absence.
After the marathon, after all the excitement and fun, and ready to start anew here as we
begin February, with more talk of telecommunications, computers, justice, injustice, progress, regression, and various other things along those lines.
A lot happening.
A lot going on.
A lot to update you on.
And of course, we'll be taking phone calls in just a little bit.
A lot of people have been asking about FiberOptic, who has been co-hosting this program for the past couple of years.
And he has been sent to prison for a year and a day.
We will be giving out his address a little bit later on in the program.
We will also be hearing from him.
So stay tuned, and you can find out for yourself exactly how things are going along those particular lines.
Well, we have all kinds of prison news as well, which we'll be getting to as well.
Something that I thought was pretty interesting came in the mail this week concerning the future, the future of the phone system.
The phone system is changing.
It's not too obvious to us right now, but in the next year or so, the phone system will be changing pretty dramatically.
Phone numbers, not local numbers so much, but area codes will be changing their format.
And what that means is we'll no longer have to have a 1 or a 0 as the middle number of an area code.
Now, if you look at any area code now, you'll see that they all have 1s or 0s, whether it's area code 800, 212, 718, 908.
They're all filling that particular regulation.
And that was made for a number of reasons, the most obvious being that that was the way that primitive switching equipment would be able to tell whether a call was long distance or not.
That and the leading one in front of a 10-digit number would tell you that as well.
Well, January 1, 1995, that all changes, and three-digit area codes can be any number you want.
Well, not any number you want, but any number the phone companies decide upon.
In fact, there's already a few that are going to be starting up early next year, including 360 for part of Washington State, and 520 for Arizona, and 334 for Alabama.
So there's three right there.
Also, there's going to be a 456 area code.
And what that is going to be used for, it's going to be rather interesting.
It's not going to be used within this country.
It's going to be used outside of the country for people calling in.
And it's kind of unclear as to what exactly it's going to be used for.
I suspect it's going to be something along the lines of USA Direct, where people would prefix 456 in front of another number,
and they would be connected to some operator of their choice.
We're getting documentation on this.
We'll learn more about it as the weeks go by.
But that's the news as far as how that is going to be changing.
Phone numbers will basically keep the same format.
However, you may see an increase in the number of times where you have to dial a full 10-digit phone number.
It's going to be a very interesting period of time.
And I think the effect that we'll have in the end is that we'll have 10-digit numbers, no longer 7-digit numbers.
And area codes will be passed out all over the place.
There's more changes, too, as far as dialing.
And this has to do with carrier identification codes.
Now, a lot of us know what carrier identification codes are, but even more of us don't.
And despite the efforts of some phone companies to get this information out to the public,
it hasn't really gotten out all that much.
And a lot of people don't really understand what it's all about.
And I think most of our listeners know what a carrier identification code is, right?
It's that five-digit code that you dial to get another phone company or to route a call on another telephone company.
For instance, AT&T, you would dial 10288.
And you would get, well, you wouldn't get anything if you dialed just that.
You would have to dial either a zero after that or a full phone number.
And then you would get the call routed over that particular line.
Now, how many people really know this?
Let's find out before we go any further.
Let's find out if, well, why not pick on our local 9X operator just because they're there.
See if they know how to get Sprint.
9X.
Wow.
Miss, miss, may I help you?
Yes, hi.
I need to know what the carrier access code is for M, I'm sorry, for Sprint.
333.
How would I dial that?
Excuse me?
I would just dial 333?
Well, I'll transfer you, and then you can ask them how to dial it, okay?
Okay.
Hold on just a minute.
Okay, fine.
No point doing too much.
One moment for a long-distance operator who can assist you.
What is her name? Miss, miss?
Is that weird?
Sprint, this is Nate. May I help you?
Yes, hi. I just want to know what the carrier access code is for Sprint.
Uh, 1033, if you were dialing directly and billing to your home phone?
Yes.
1033-31.
1033-31.
Yes, sir.
Okay, thank you very much.
Thank you for dialing Sprint.
All right.
Oh, boy.
Okay.
Technically, technically he's right, but he is confusing a lot of people by saying it like
that.
He said 1033-31.
What he is actually saying is 103-33 and then 1+.
Okay, because you would dial 1 before the area code.
But, I mean, this is not the way they're advertising it.
This is not the way they submit.
That might be his personal way of giving out the number.
All right, let's try the same thing with MCI.
See what we get on that.
Whoops.
Dialed the wrong number.
Okay, we're going to try to get the same information for MCI.
See how hard that is.
Nine-neck.
It's inspirational, isn't it?
Can I help you?
Hi, I need to know the carrier access code for MCI, please.
Okay, I'm going to connect you with them and they'll tell you how to reach them in the
future.
Thank you so much.
You're welcome.
Simple five-digit number, but...
One moment for a long-distance operator who can assist you.
This is more fun, isn't it?
Sprint, this is Charles.
May I help you?
Yes, hi.
I thought you were MCI, actually.
Well, I'm Sprint.
One of the reasons MCI callers have been defaulting to us is because of a major...
major line down in the MCI system, so...
Really?
What can you tell us about that?
Well, I believe...
From what I gather, there was a fiber cut in Michigan, which has affected service as
far away as New York.
Really?
Yes, sir.
Weird.
Another fiber got cut, huh?
Yes, sir.
Do they know who did it?
No, that I don't know.
That's all I know, and some of their operators have been referring their customers to other
sources until they get the problem corrected.
I see.
Were you trying to use a phone card, or what were you trying to do?
No, I was just trying to find out what the carrier access code was for MCI.
Oh, it's 102-220.
Okay.
All right, thank you so much.
All right, then.
Thank you for your Sprint.
Was that the same guy?
Did we get the same guy twice?
Because, I mean, he put the zero at the end now.
Oh, this is crazy.
This is an indication of how nutso the whole phone system is.
Cable splits and weird access codes.
All right, look.
This is how it works.
The carrier access code for Sprint is 10333.
Simple.
Okay?
If you want to dial an operator, you dial 10333, and then dial zero to get the operator.
If you want to dial a long-distance call, you dial 10333, and then the phone number,
which might consist of OnePlus, might not, depending on where you are.
For MCI, the exact same thing, except you replace the carrier access code with 10222 instead of 10333.
And for AT&T, you do 10288, and there's all kinds of other ones as well.
It's very simple.
It's too bad your local operator can't tell you that, save all this fuss.
But the important part about this whole story is that that system isn't going to be in use much longer.
That's right.
That system, the end is in sight.
The end is near.
And you know what it's going to be replaced by?
Well, they're running out of numbers.
If you can believe that.
I don't know where all these numbers are going, but they are running out of numbers.
And they've decided that instead of using three digits, like they use now, the one and the zero are always there.
So it's 10222, 10333.
Instead of using three digits, they'd like to use four.
So they're going to change it.
And instead of dialing 10XXX, you ready?
You're going to be dialing 101XXXX.
That's right.
They're adding not one, but two digits to the whole dialing sequence.
101XXXX.
That's before the phone call even gets started.
Now, can you imagine the confusion that's going to reign in the operator rooms when they try to give this information out when they haven't even mastered a simple five-digit code?
They're going to have to give out a seven-digit code now.
It's unbelievable.
And I don't really know where all these numbers are being assigned because I only can give out maybe six different carrier access codes off the top of my head.
I don't know where all the others are.
So you may very well hear someday somebody explaining the nice, simple way to dial using AT&T.
And they'll say something like, dial 101-0-ATT-1-212-279-3400.
Write a letter.
It's a lot easier.
A lot less frustrating.
So that's going to be happening probably in the next year.
That's right.
Probably in the next year that is going to be happening because they're running out of numbers.
101-XXXX.
Okay.
Now, something else.
Another indication of growth which I think is a much healthier indication.
And that's the Internet.
The Internet is growing like crazy.
And I'm looking at a newsletter here called Matrix News.
And they tell you basically how fast the Internet is growing and what is anticipated.
Well, they say the Internet Domain Survey of July 1993 shows 79% growth in Internet hosts in the year from July 1992 as discussed in Global Growth Rates, The Matrix, and The Internet, which is an article in this particular newsletter.
The October 1993 report shows 81% growth in hosts and 55% growth in domains from October 1992 to October 1993.
There's all kinds of different surveys.
Some show 110% growth.
Some show 65%.
Some show 59%.
It's basically varying depending on how you measure it, on what your particular sources are.
But I think everybody agrees it's growing pretty quickly.
The city of Austin, Texas, is ranked first among cities in the United States for economic growth for an annual rate of 12%.
Among nations, China is showing a similar growth rate of 12% to 13% and astounding economists by doing so.
Compared to that level, a sustained growth rate of even 65% is remarkable.
Well, the Internet is pretty remarkable and it continues to grow and we'll be seeing more evidence of that.
Now, something interesting happened on the Internet about a week or so ago.
That was when 2600 had its first Internet meeting.
Yes, that's right.
The first virtual meeting of hackers around the world.
Actually, it's not entirely true because hackers, of course, are meeting on the Internet constantly.
But this was the first time that 2600 Magazine jumped in and decided to have a meeting online to see what would happen.
Well, it was crazy.
It was absolute mayhem and bedlam and all kinds of things like that because whenever you plan something like this out, things are always going to go wrong.
And that's, we couldn't have planned it better.
That's exactly what happened.
Basically, IRC is a program that runs on the Internet.
It's called Internet Relay Chat.
It allows people to link in from around the planet.
If you have access to IRC and you can jack into the net, as it were, then you can talk to people that have done the same thing no matter where they are.
And that was the idea behind this meeting, to get people on a particular day, and the day will always be on the 26th of the month,
to get those people to be able to communicate with each other regardless of geographic boundaries or anything like that.
And, of course, we don't have to judge people based on what they look like, what they sound like, just on what they type and whatever name they happen to use.
So that was the idea behind it.
Now, to do this, you have to set up a particular area, an agreed-upon meeting space.
And that agreed-upon meeting space was the channel called 2600.
And that's where everybody was instructed to show up any time between, I believe it was 12 noon and whenever we decided to end the thing.
And so that involves a bit of planning as far as, well, getting the room ready, sort of.
You have to make sure that that channel is there, that that channel has not been taken by somebody else,
that there's things for people to do when they get to the channel.
You can't just have, you know, anarchy when people check in.
There has to be some semblance of order.
But this is the Internet, and there is no real semblance of order.
Things kind of fall into chaos many times, but the chaos is not necessarily a bad thing.
Which is one of the things that we learned on that particular day.
12 o'clock came around, and what happened?
The machine that we were running our computerized programs known as bots from had crashed the night before.
Had crashed good for the first time in many months.
It was down for several hours, and of course we weren't able to get things ready on time.
So noon rolled around, and that was just about the time the machine was coming back online.
There were about, oh, I'd say about 50 or so people already in the channel.
Which was kind of crazy, because the way we had planned it, we had planned it so that we'd open the channel at a particular time.
But people just sort of found a way to open the channel on their own, and they were just sort of waiting for the rest of us when we finally showed up.
Which was all fine and good, but it was complete chaos, as I said.
We had no idea what was going on.
We didn't have access to the programs we wanted to run.
And so that slowly, slowly started to change.
We started to get access to the programs as that system, which had crashed, started to come back up.
And then we had an amazing turnout at the very beginning.
Within the first hour, I'd say at one particular point in time, there were 140 people on the same channel at the same time.
And I don't know if you've ever talked to 140 people at once on the screen.
It was, you didn't know what to expect.
Of course, you can send private messages to people, and they're not seen by everybody.
But having 140 people to deal with was really a job.
But, you know, that combined with the 1,000 or so people that checked in over the next 18 hours, it worked out incredibly well.
There's this semblance of order that somehow takes over.
It's just kind of, I don't know, an instinct of some sort.
People migrate to other places.
They make their own rooms, and they go into those, and they talk to people they want to talk to.
They leave.
They come back.
And things never really did go wrong in the worst-case scenario.
The network didn't break.
The channel wasn't taken over by evil people that were, you know, going to push their own propaganda or say bad things about hackers or things like that.
Never happened.
People just came in, and much like any other hacker meeting, they just communicated.
It was nice.
And hopefully that will work out even better in the future on the 26th of every month.
We're going to try to do it so that whenever it's the 26th, anywhere in the world, the meeting is actually happening.
In other words, wherever the day actually begins, which I guess is somewhere in Asia, Japan perhaps,
when it's midnight on the 26th, that is when the meeting will officially start.
And when it's, when the 27th begins in the last possible place, which I guess would be Guam or something, then that's when the meeting will end.
And we'll do that once a month.
We'll have a virtual meeting.
And, you know, one of these days, that virtual meeting is going to occur on a Wednesday.
Yeah.
So when that happens, it's going to be very interesting because we'll be on the radio and on the Internet at the same time.
That's something we want to try this year, getting BAI onto the net and getting things rolling as far as that kind of thing goes.
All right.
A couple other weird things happened over the past couple of weeks.
I got to play with a MetroCard for the first time.
Remember, we had this in the studio a few weeks ago.
First MetroCard ever.
And, you know, I had this MetroCard a few weeks ago.
And what did I do right after the program?
I went out and I used it.
Or, no, no, correction is in order here.
I tried to use it.
Yeah.
I went to a train station right here at 34th Street, 34th and 8th.
And thought it would be a good idea to just, you know, put it in the machine and walk through,
just as if we had always had a MetroCard system in this city.
And, of course, it didn't work.
And I had heard about this.
I knew that a lot of New Yorkers are guilty of swiping too fast.
So you have to swipe slowly.
It's not like DC where you just put the card in and it sucks it up for you and does all kinds of neat things.
It's not like that at all.
You have to swipe it at the right speed and make the machine happy.
So I swiped it.
I swiped it slow.
I swiped it fast.
I swiped it stationary.
I swiped it backwards and forwards and everything you could possibly imagine.
It did not work.
It did not work at all.
And so, you know, I looked at the person behind the desk there and just saw kind of a look of baffled confusion on their part.
So, you know, I wasn't in the mood for this, having paid $5 for this card in the first place.
So I did what any normal New Yorker would do.
And I went right over the turnstile, which is incredible because I thought those turnstiles were supposed to prevent you from doing that.
But it didn't.
I just went right over the thing and everybody there saw what I did.
I made no bones about this.
Everyone saw I was trying to pay.
I was trying to use my card.
It just wasn't recognizing it.
It wasn't saying I didn't have any money.
It wasn't recognizing it at all.
It didn't work.
The system was broken.
Tried to pay and it just didn't work and nobody knew how to deal with it.
So I went over and everybody pretty much agreed that was the thing to do, except for these two cops that were two platforms away.
Now, the way that station is mapped out, you have one platform, then you have some tracks, another platform, some more tracks, and then another platform.
And that's where they were, all the way on the other end.
And they were sort of saying to me, you know, that's illegal what you just did.
And we were having this long extended conversation where I was explaining to them and waving my fare card and saying, look, it doesn't work over four tracks and two platforms.
And it got very difficult.
And after a while, I just sort of, you know, gave up on the conversation and expected them to sort of go through the tunnel and arrest me or maybe call up on the pay phone next to me and yell at me a little bit more.
But it never happened.
I still have this fare card.
I still haven't used it.
I'm trying to use it.
But for now, I have to say the system is terrible.
The system does not work very well at all.
We'll just have to experiment some more and see what happens.
For one thing, on this card, there is no proof that I spent $5 on it.
No proof at all.
So when I walk up to somebody and say, hey, the system doesn't work, well, how are they going to believe me?
How are they going to believe how much is on this card?
I know there's $5 on it, but nobody else does.
So it's not something I recommend, at least not now.
Tokens, at least you know what you paid for them.
All right, now to the prison use, which is always bad, of course.
We do have an update from FiberOptik, a.k.a. Mark.
Actually, I guess I should say that the other way around.
And then we'll be taking phone calls after that.
Before we get into Fiber, I'd like to read you something that I got concerning another prisoner,
who you know as Scorpion, Paul Stira, who got into a bit of trouble because,
well, first of all, his name showed up in 2600 magazine, this issue,
so that he would be able to get some mail.
They didn't like that at all.
They don't like it when people get lots of mail or get their names printed in magazines.
But it was his choice, and we believe he has every right to do that.
And he says he's getting mail at least one piece a day, and it's keeping his sanity.
And that's the important thing.
And I know that Fiber is getting mail, too, and that's keeping his sanity,
and that's about all you can hope for when you're in prison.
Listen to this letter that we got, though, from the Federal Bureau of Prisons.
We sent Paul Scorpion a whole lot of copies of 2600 magazine because that's what he was interested in reading,
and we thought it would make the days go by.
Well, the prison people didn't agree, and they sent the letter to Paul saying the following.
21 incoming publications, 21, that's about all the ones we sent them,
titled 2600, addressed to you, have been found to contain objectionable material.
The decision has been made that this material would be detrimental to the security and good order of the institution.
Specifically, the publications contain information which could possibly compromise the integrity of USP Lewisburg's computer operations.
In view of the foregoing, the publications must be rejected as being a threat to the security and good order of the institution.
The sender is being informed that the publications are being rejected.
Now, they sent us a similar kind of a letter, along with a copy of that letter,
telling us that we had every right to have an independent review.
Now, here's the weird part.
This happens every single time we have a problem with the prison system.
The letter is dated January 12th, and in this letter, dated January 12th,
they tell us we have 15 days to appeal this.
However, the letter was mailed, and we know this from the postmark on the envelope,
the letter was mailed on January 24th, 12 days after the letter was written.
Now, the letter says you have 15 days from now to respond.
Otherwise, the magazines will be sent back to you.
So, obviously, they don't intend to let people actually respond.
Now, this has happened to us before, where we've had our magazine rejected,
and we've sent this letter out, and both times,
they've dated the letter about 12 days before they send out the actual letter.
So, we'll see what happens.
We'll see if they actually allow us to appeal,
and if we can find out exactly what it is they find so objectionable
in every single one of the issues that we sent out.
I mean, we very rarely deal with prison systems or prison computers or anything like that.
So, we'll keep you updated on that.
We also heard from another prisoner known as Acid Freak who's generally doing all right.
See, prisoners do have a lot of problems that we just don't think of.
For instance, they're assigned a particular job,
and they have to do this job every single day.
Now, in at least one of these cases,
one of our friends was stricken with the flu,
and they were taken to the doctor, and the doctor said,
get lots of rest.
And the warden said, you have to go to work,
and you can't get lots of rest.
And so, these people have to go to work when they're sick in bed,
when they have the flu,
when they have fevers of 101,
they still have to do their job,
so to say, as important as it might be.
So, that's the kind of thing we're dealing with here,
the stupidity of the bureaucracy.
All right.
No further ado, let's listen to FiberOptic,
see how he's doing,
and then we'll take some phone calls at 212-279-3400.
So, Mark, how are things working out for you over there in prison?
Well, I'm trying to adjust as best I can,
and I'm hanging around with some good people.
See, the important thing is talking with people.
There's some good, friendly people here,
despite what one might think.
And a lot of the time,
I'll just sit around and smoke cigarettes and chat with people,
and it helps the time go easier,
rather than just keeping to yourself and going crazy.
What kind of people are there with you?
There's people here of all ages,
from, like, late teens to, like, 70s.
And people are here for assorted reasons.
There's people here for embezzlement,
financial crimes.
And there's people here for
small amounts of drug possession, too.
Can you describe what a typical day consists of?
It depends.
But, basically, there's something like about five counts every day.
And one of those, the one at 415,
is a formal count where you actually have to be in your cube.
And the other one is, basically,
you just be in one of the TV rooms or in your cube.
It doesn't matter.
It's an informal count.
And so you're constantly aware of the counts
during the course of the day.
And you might be watching some TV,
or if you bother to get up at 6 in the morning,
you might eat breakfast.
So the meals are at very odd times,
and I have a lot of trouble dealing with it.
Because breakfast is at 6 a.m.
and lunch is at quarter to 11.
And dinner is right after the 415 count.
So, like, unless you actually buy food in the commissary,
you're going to be hungry a lot of the time.
Now, what kind of things are they making you do
as far as any kind of job or chore or things like that?
Yeah, the job I got assigned
is in a place called the Powerhouse.
And it's basically where there's gas.
They use natural gas to heat the buildings
and to heat for hot water and stuff.
So I'm thinking of changing it
because it's horribly noisy there,
and there's all these caustic chemicals laying around
that make me really nervous.
And basically, I have to...
Well, I don't have to.
I'm there with, like, a couple other people.
But I read gauges.
I basically read meters.
The meters have to be read once in an hour and logged.
So it's about as close to technology as you get, right?
Yeah, pretty much.
Are you getting much mail?
Yeah, I appreciate all the mail I've been receiving
and books and magazines and stuff, too.
It's been keeping me in good spirits
so much so that I look forward to getting mail.
It's like the high point of the day is mail call
because I've pretty much gotten mail every day.
So it's something to look forward to.
It's sort of, you know, my tie back home.
Sort of my connection to the real world, so to speak.
I guess a lot of other people don't have that good fortune.
Yeah.
Now, can you just clear one thing up?
There's a lot of talk as to what exactly happened
after we dropped you off that time.
Can you just tell us exactly what did happen?
Well, it wasn't very pleasant.
I got strip searched,
and all my little property I had on me was taken away,
including my clothing and things.
And apparently what they didn't inform us
when we called on the phone
was that no one is here to process you on the weekend
if you're a new inmate.
So they threw me in segregation,
which is better known as the hole.
And it was pretty miserable
for about a day and a half.
And you're basically alone in a small cell
with the bed
and one of these stainless steel combination sink toilet things
that freezes your ass when you flush the toilet
because there's no toilet seat or anything.
And a piece of polished metal,
which I would assume is supposed to be a mirror,
and a little else.
That's about it.
No windows?
There's something that resembles a window
with thick metal bars on it,
and you have a nice view of the barbed wire fence
right outside with the spotlight.
I see.
And how long were you in there for?
About a day and a half
until Monday morning.
This was pretty much the whole weekend.
And did they tell you
why they were putting you there?
Not specifically, no.
So what happened after that?
On Monday morning when I was still there,
when I got up,
I tried to eat some breakfast,
and the food down there was incredibly bad.
And whether it was nerves or just,
well, I'm sure it was nerves,
and a combination of that
and just bad food and stuff,
I just puked all over the place
right before I left.
So it was good that I got that into my system.
And also sort of left behind
a calling card of sorts, I guess.
Yeah, basically.
So then they took me out
and they gave me a change of clothing
that was more suited for where I was going,
and they pretty much drove me up the road,
and I checked in here.
And then what happened at night
was I had a serious nervous attack
or anxiety attack,
whatever you want to call it,
and I just felt really faint,
and I was getting like pins and needles
and like cramps in my hands and arms and stuff,
and I felt like I was going to pass out
just from stress.
So a bunch of guys,
like they called one of the guards
and they helped me down to the doctor.
The doctor gave me something to calm me down,
some liquid sedative or something,
and I kind of felt better after that.
And it was then that I came to realize
that people were generally friendly.
You know, there's sort of this camaraderie almost
between a lot of the inmates,
like they'll help you out
and show you the ropes
and sort of get you going
and try to alleviate your stress and stuff
because everyone pretty much
just wants to go home too.
And the majority of people
don't want any trouble
with anyone else
because they don't want to get into trouble
and get thrown in the hole
for violence or anything like that.
Now, is there any kind of disciplinary thing
that you have to abide by?
I know you have to keep your cubicle clean.
Yeah.
There's that.
There's basically not interfering
with any of the counts,
which can be a severe thing.
There's being careful
about what you talk about on the phone
because they're obviously monitored
and they record everything.
Do they say what we're not supposed to talk about?
It's never really been specific.
What they have said
is that they don't want you to carry business,
to carry on business over the phone.
It's basically one of the reasons
they got this inmate telethon system
was that people were just, you know,
running illegal rackets at a prison.
So they pretty much spoiled it for everyone.
And they don't want people
conducting business over the phone.
Can you very quickly describe
the phone system, how it works?
Well, basically,
we're all assigned nine-digit PAC codes,
phone access codes.
And the first,
you have to submit a list
of a maximum of 20 phone numbers,
which you're authorized to call.
And that's it.
And as soon as they get activated,
which can take anywhere
from a couple of days
to a couple of weeks,
then for the first seven days,
when you first get here
and your phone is activated,
your PAC code,
you can make collect calls only
and only to those numbers.
And after that seven-day period
is expired,
you have to make sure
that if you came in with money,
then that's good.
You could put phone credits.
When you go to the commissary,
you can put phone credits
in $1 increments
towards your phone usage.
And local calls,
local,
as far as like calling New York
and surrounding states,
it's roughly 23 cents a minute.
And you only have
a 15-minute limit,
is that right?
Yeah, 15 limit for every call.
In fact,
we're fast approaching
that right now.
Pretty much,
you get a one-minute warning
and then you just,
your call's terminated.
Uh-huh.
And you can check your balance
when it works.
I was saying before,
I just tried to check my balance
and nothing happened.
Uh-huh.
The phone system is
rather poor
and unreliable at best.
Uh-huh.
Now,
we have to,
of course,
keep you supplied
in phone credits
by sending money orders
to you
so that you're able
to call us back.
Yeah,
that and
so I can shop
at the commissary.
Right.
Pretty much to
buy food and cigarettes.
And you get to do that
once a week.
Yeah,
once a week I can do that.
Okay.
We'll get out
the information
as to how exactly
to do that.
Just,
we're about to get cut off
in about a minute or so.
Is there anything else
that you wanted to say
to people out there?
Just that I'm doing okay
and I look forward
to the day
when I can be back there
in the studio
and tell everyone
my story.
When,
when do you think
that day is?
Have they given you
an exact,
that's the warning.
We have a one-minute warning.
We'll get one more warning
I think when there's
ten seconds left.
Yeah.
Did they give you
an idea when that date is?
Yeah,
it's probably going to be
sometime in November
if not sooner.
Like if I manage
to get a halfway house
which I don't know
if I'll accept or not
if I even get it.
It's not very good.
but I get something like
54 days off
for good behavior
so it would be,
it would follow
sometime in November.
Seems so far away.
November, yeah.
But we'll be
literally counting the days
and they're literally
counting the seconds.
All right,
well,
it's always good
talking to you
and we'll be in touch
with you again real soon.
Hello?
Hello?
For you whose eyes
were open wide
I was mine refused to see
I'm sore in need
of saving grace
Be kind and humor me
I'm lost and missed
the sea of wheat
Where people speak
but seldom meet
And grief and love
The strange but true
Although they die
They seldom cry
And oh, by any other name
Yeah
I know I might read more sweet
Perhaps the sun will never shine
Upon my field of wheat
But still in closing
Let me say
For those too sick
Yeah, too sick, to see
Though knowledge shows
Yes, someone knows
I wish someone would be
And you are listening to
Off the Hook here
on WBAI New York
We were just listening
to Fiber Optic
an interview from prison
in School Kill
In fact, we're going to give out
his address right now
and urge our listeners
that recognize the sound
of his voice
and have learned a thing
or two from him
in the past
to take a little bit of time
and write to him
because, as he said
mail call is probably
the highlight of the day
And you never know
how important that is
until you're either
in the army
or in a prison somewhere
It's an interesting parallel
and I'm sure it's been
drawn before
Okay, this is the address
Please write it down
and let other people
know about it as well
Name is Mark
M-A-R-K-A-B-N-A
That's A-B-E-N-E
And on the same line
because right now
that is part of his name
the number is
3-2-1-0-9-0-5-4
That's 3-2-1-0-9-0-5-4
And on the next line
F-P-C
as in Federal Prison Camp
Comma
School Kill
which is spelled
S-C-H-U-Y-L-K-I-L-L
And next line
Unit 1
Next line
P.O. Box 670
And finally
Minersville
That's M-I-N-E-R-S-V-I-L-L-E
Pennsylvania
Zip code
17954-0670
And again
if you can
if it's possible
to contribute to the
I guess
phone
account
or commissary account
or what have you
so that he'd be able
to keep in touch
with us
and others as well
and
buy things
in the commissary
Once a week
he gets to go
to the commissary
and buy things
and of course
it's kind of like
being in the village
you know
in the prisoner
where you buy things
that you've never
heard of before
that are only made
in one particular
part of the world
and are probably
inferior to what
you're used to
but it's a privilege
you can only do it
once a week
and you can only do it
if you have money
in your account
so if you want
to contribute
to his account
send a money
order
to that same
address
and address
put on the name
of the money
order
his full name
plus the prisoner
number
and that way
he will
ensure that
he
his life
will be a little
bit easier
okay
let's take some
phone calls
212-279-3400
that's our
telephone number
and we're talking
about
oh I guess
we're talking
about this sad
aspect of the
whole hacker world
and as well as
other forms of
technology we've
been talking about
before the carrier
access code is
going to be
changing
New York City
is being met
with a new
system of
mass transit
it's going to be
an interesting
next couple of
I don't know
months
years
what have you
it's going to be
interesting
that's for sure
so
stay tuned
to Off the Hook
we'll be bringing
you information
as we get it
212-279-3400
is our phone number
1pm
and after lunch
from 2pm
I don't know
what that is
okay
let's pick up
this line
good morning
hello
is this Off the Hook?
I mean good
afternoon
no
good evening
I'm in the
right place
go ahead
I just had a
couple of
questions
let's say
a BBS
caller
decided
to set up
an 800
or reroute
an 800
number to
the BBS
because he
was taught
to pay
long distance
calls
and a lot
of people
used it
and the
numbers spread
around
would the
system
operator
be liable?
this sounds
like a hypothetical
question and I
hope it is
would the system
operator be liable
well it depends
did the system
operator know
about this?
was the system
operator part of
this alleged
conspiracy?
no
well then how
could he be liable?
if you route an
800 number to
somebody's house
and people call
that person at the
house
well no
they have no
knowledge of it
so they're not
liable
and I've seen
this kind of
thing happen
before
where people
route things
that are popular
through 800
numbers
and you know
it's not a
legal thing
to do
obviously
if nobody
intends on
paying for
those calls
system operator
wouldn't be
liable?
well no
because the
billing number
is not the
same as the
N number
in this case
it used to
be that 800
numbers always
routed to the
billing number
but these days
you can have an
800 number
route any place
you want
in fact I'm
still waiting
and I said
this a couple
of years ago
I'm still
waiting for a
rich person
somewhere to
route an
800 number
to the
White House
so that people
can call the
White House
for free
and the rich
person would pay
the bill
hasn't happened
yet
but no
the person
is not liable
unless they're
part of that
particular plan
the person
who is liable
though is the
person that
set up the
service
and the
person who
provided
billing
information
and
if it was
set up
from a
payphone
with all
false
information
that no
one would
pretty much
no one
would
well if
a phone
company
is dumb
enough to
actually accept
information from
a payphone
that's fake
then I guess
the phone
company is the
one that winds
up being liable
and also
one other
question
what's up
with that
free phone
thing
I've heard
a lot
about it
I've called
up but
is it like
is it bogus
or is it
real
they really
make calls
you'll have to
describe the
system to me
it was
listed in your
the latest
2600 magazine
I believe
Whistler wrote
the letter
and what it
was was a
service
I believe it
was in
New Jersey
that you
call up
and from
what they
said
you hook
up with
their service
so you
dial that
carrier access
code for
them before
you dial
the number
and any
number you
dial using
their access
code
they pay
you
they give
you money
back for
dialing the
numbers
yeah that's
something that
I'm very
doubtful of
and I you
know it's the
only way to
really know if
something like
that is on
the level is to
try it out
and I just
haven't gotten
around to trying
that one out
yet
I mean you're
welcome to do
it and see
what happens
I heard on
the 2600
bulletin board
they said that
they taped the
conversations too
all the conversations
I kind of doubt
that
from what I hear
it's running
the whole system
is running off
of a 486
information
pretending to be
someone else
and how easy
it was
we had an
incident here
at my house
where I'm
the person's
listening right
now
they basically
called up the
cable company
phone company
electricity company
all that
and said
we're moving
could you turn
off all these
services
and we
were not
aware at
all that
they had
done this
until the
next morning
I happened
to notice
that nor the
cable or the
phones were
working
and sure
enough I
called up
and what
they had
done is
for the
phone company
they had
somehow
put a
recording on
got them
to put a
recording on
that said
the number
had been
changed
and it
had a
different
number
and if you
called that
number it
didn't even
work
so I
don't know
how they
couldn't
have
figured that
out
and then
they had
disconnected
the cable
and all
our bills
to totally
different
locations
and
the strange
thing was
we then
put a
passcode
on our
account
which you
can do
at 9x
now
if you
can put
a three
digit
access code
on it
where no
changes
can be
made
without it
that's
right
well
sure enough
I called
up to
order
three way
calling
they didn't
ask for
the access
code
after we
had put
it in
incredible
and you
know what
else
there's
another
weakness
in that
system
where you
can assign
an access
code to
somebody else
that doesn't
have one
exactly
and thereby
lock them
out of their
own account
and the last
thing is
you're talking
about how
there's a
number shortage
well two
things about
that first
of all
I got a
tour of the
local 9x
office here
switching office
if you
want to
happen to
do that
they'll give
you a free
tour
whatever
just first
of all
call
914-890-2300
for the
president's
helpline
and just
tell them
I don't
know you're
doing a
project or
something
curious about
the system
and you want
to know if
you can get
a tour
and they'll
usually be
happy to
do that
and they'll
give you a
tour
don't mention
2600
magazine
don't mention
off the
hook
and you'll
probably
get in
yeah
what they
told me
was
well two
things
first of
all
they're
saying
they have
I'm not
sure
maybe if
this will
change the
problem
but first
of all
they have
a way
of sending
two phone
lines
through one
copper wire
not fiber
optics but
copper
and the
other thing
was they
told me
that only
35,000
out of the
70,000
numbers here
at least
are used
and they
don't plan
to use
the rest
of them
because they
might need
them for
emergencies
everywhere
they don't
need the
new area
because that's
just a waste
yeah well I
mean there's
a lot of
wasted numbers
I guess you
could look at
it through
cellular phones
voice mailboxes
beepers
things like
that
things that
aren't real
true phone
lines
and that's
why we're
running out
of numbers
but they're
only numbers
you know
we can
simply assign
other things
this area
code change
is something
that's long
overdue
there's one
prefix here
where you can
call it
and it says
call answering
cannot continue
transferring to
an attendant
and about
5,000
numbers
wow
well there's
all kinds
of weird
things going
on
and it's
going to
increase
for the next
couple of
years
I don't
know what's
going to
happen after
that
alright thanks
for your
call
that reminds
me
that reminds
me of
something
else weird
that happened
over the
past couple
of weeks
a lot has
happened in
these last
few weeks
since we've
been on
we had a
problem with
the phone
company where
they actually
turned off
one of our
phone lines
I mean this
is never
ever
happened
before
but you
know what
they do
these days
when they
turn off
your phone
line
it used
to be
that you
would pick
up the
phone and
you wouldn't
get anything
you would not
get a dial tone
you could still
get incoming
calls but you
wouldn't get a
dial tone you
couldn't dial
anything and in
fact there was a
trick there might
even still be a
trick with that
particular system
the trick being
that that you
can somehow get
three-way if you
have three-way if
you subscribe to
three-way that is
you can manage
to get another
dial tone by
having somebody
call you and
then you flash
switch hook and
you go to
another dial tone
that dial tone
will be
unrestricted
now there's a
there's another
way of doing
things that's the
way they do
things today
they have the
more sophisticated
way of doing
it that's where
you get a dial
tone but you
can't dial
anything they
don't let you
dial anything
you can only
call an 890
number which is
New York
telephone or
911 that's it
you get a
recording saying
to call the
police dial 911
to talk about
your bill
call us
actually you can
call 800 numbers
too so it was a
mistake it was a
clerical error and
we were able to
get it fixed pretty
quickly but we had
enough time to
hack out the
system and see if
there were any
any holes in it
and we were
unable to find
anything
unable to find
a single hole
except for 800
numbers going
through
950s did not
work at all
958 worked
958 and 511
worked for the
automatic number
announcements
and 311 the
new TDD service
worked so that
was kind of
kind of neat
right there
okay 212
279 3400
good evening
you're on
hello
yes go ahead
am I in the
ear
yes
hello
who's this
I just stumbled
on your
program
you're talking
about the
earthquake
no you got
the wrong
station
sorry
good morning
I mean good
evening
hi
are you on a
delay or am I
on the air
you're on the air
and we're not
talking about an
earthquake
I beg your
pardon
what am I
oh I said
I am on the air
let me turn this
down
okay here's my
question
what can you tell
me about non
published numbers
getting them
the legalities
ways of if you
do get those
numbers
what is legal to
know and what's
legal what's not
legal to know
I'm sorry
did you follow
I'm sorry I had
trouble hearing you
okay my question
is about non
published numbers
yes
what is possible
to get what is
not possible to
get if you get
those numbers are
you holding
illegal information
etc
if you get a
non well I
don't know what
you mean by if
you get a
non published
number
well I guess
through surreptitious
means you could
get a non published
number of someone
else's
well then it's
the method
you got that
knowing that
information do you
think that would
be illegal
I think disseminating
that information
would be illegal
I don't think
actually having the
information in itself
is illegal but
certainly if you
were to break a
law to get the
information then yes
you'd be breaking a
law obviously
right but that's
that's that's you
know possession
unlike what what
what they what they
send fiber optic
away for it's it's
not holding on to
a an access device
it's not it's not
holding on to an
access device it's
it's basically you
know information
yeah it's
information
well do you
now the next
question becomes if
there was a method
by dialing one
two three four five
hypothetically and
there's an internal
code that one can
use to to get that
information knowing
that that that
information if such
a thing existed
and then starting to
use it would that
be illegal there
was a way to hack
into it if there
was a legal way
you found a way
to get into a
system you happened
upon some
information that
allowed you to go
into computers and
pull it yeah but
you're still you're
still violating the
person's privacy by
getting in the first
place and that's you
know that's subject to
something you see and
that's that's that's
what that's where
breaking a law would
come in you know
violating somebody's
privacy getting
information that's
supposed to be
private now if that
information is is
made available by
phone companies and
made available easily
by phone companies well
then that's something
that the phone companies
should answer for
you see all right
well and it's not
uncommon this is
happening a lot
unless the numbers are
getting out quite a
bit now the most
important question is
do you know how to
get them do I know
how to get them there
are ways of getting
them yes I don't I'm
not going to like to
say on the air no I
don't believe in in
spreading that kind
of information where
people's numbers can
actually be be
compromised there are
definitely lots and
lots of tricks and as
you can you can hear by
the intelligence level of
some of the people
working the phone
companies it's not
hard to get them to
tell you things they're
not supposed to right
right it's very hard
to get them to tell
you things they are
supposed to but that's
something else all right
thanks for calling
all I had to ask about
okay thanks so much
see if you can squeeze
in one more call good
evening yes good
evening I would have to
know two questions
where in Manhattan can I
get the 2600 and how is
the prisoner for Mark
going to know that he
has money coming his way
first of all I know I
know Mark is going to
love the fact that he's
now referred to as the
prisoner he is going to
like that no I like it
I think he will too but
basically how is he going
to know well hopefully
he he dials a particular
number to find out what
his balance is on I think
both the phone and the
commissary in case those
of you are curious out
there the number is 118
that's what he dials him
inside his his system and
he's able to tell on a
day-by-day basis how much
money is put into there and
I think he would he would
also find out who it's
from I'm pretty sure that's
how it works he hasn't
been in there long enough
for us to really know how
that system works but I
should be talking to him
in the next couple of
days and I can I can find
out more specifics about
that somebody who didn't
know him were to send him
$10 or something and the
person of course money or
whatever and has has the
proof but he did never
find out because somebody
else uses it or whatever
well I you know I know it's
it's hard for us to trust
these people that run the
prison but we're going to
have to for this
particular this particular
thing but you know a
contribution like that of
$10 would have paid for
the for the interview you
just heard now you know
things like that and and
we cannot call him it's
really sad that we can't
call back and ask
questions we have to wait
for him to call us we have
to be around just at that
particular moment and after
15 minutes he gets cut off
I would gladly for
example send the copy of
the money order to
somewhere where then he
has a proof or something
because of me but because
for him to have the
possibility of double
checking if he has
received something okay
well you're welcome to
to send it here to BAI as
well or if you want we
can forward it to him
that's fine as well if you
if you send it in a letter
would it get to him that
the copy that something
has been sent to him yeah
yeah we would make sure of
that I know I I mean
because I have a feeling
that he's very appreciated
and that this might come up
through other people also
well you know if he has
received something not
for an ego trip but just
for him to know that he
has something coming or
that something was sent
to be able to double
check see we really don't
know yet we really don't
know okay we have to try
and we're in Manhattan
could I find a 2600 I
would like to have a
sample copy to buy it to
read before I subscribe
try any kind of alternative
bookstore or places like
Tower or Hudson News or
places like that okay
wonderful okay thank you
so much thanks for
calling all right we're
out of time here
it's just about 11 o'clock
time for us to be
rebroadcasting the news
if you want to send
something to the radio
station and not to the
prison or if you want to
send a duplicate to us
so we can verify if
fiber ever got it you can
write to us here at WBAI
Emanuel Goldstein off the
hook 505 8th Avenue New
York New York 10018
we'll be back next week
with yet another fun filled
edition of off the hook
and until then stay happy
stay educated stay warm
good night
good night
I cut myself while shaving
now I can't make a call
it couldn't get much worse
but if they could they would
Bumbin' Le Bon for the best
expect the worst
I hope that's understood
Bumbin' Le Bon
I know you're gonna check
how strong the fan
question begins
and when it happens
Bumbin' Le Bon
let's see
the coming
we've had this
кажется
Bumbin' Le Bon
to the next
10 countries
said
fat
τα
brought
We'll be right back.
Good evening.
In the news tonight, a congressional task force studies homelessness and leans toward long-term solutions.
The third Clinton nominee for civil rights comes under conservative attacks.
And in New York, the mayor's new budget calls for significant cuts, while the Con Edison Company is charged with racial discrimination.
With these and other stories, I'm Jose Santiago in New York with Verna Avery Brown in Washington,
and this is the news for Wednesday, February 2, 1994.
First to Washington for the Pacifica National News.
The British media today reported that Jerry Adams' entry into the United States has ended the special relationship between the two countries.
Jerry Adams is the leader of Sinn Féin, the political wing of the IRA.
Adams has used his presence in the United States to gain access to the type of media attention he has denied in Britain.
He appeared on more than a dozen TV interviews and was greeted by hundreds of Irish-Americans in a packed New York hotel last night.
Adams has taken every opportunity to call for renewed peace talks with the British government.
But the British government has criticized Adams for gaining publicity without making any commitments to nonviolence.
The State Department responded to the British media reports by saying the special relationship between the two countries still existed.
President Clinton said today that he was seriously considering doing what was right in relations with America's former enemy, Vietnam.
While a formal decision would be announced in the next few days,
a senior administration official said it was virtually certain that the trade embargo would be lifted.
Last week, the Senate voted 62 to 38 to lift the embargo.
Israeli Prime Minister Yitzat Rabin said today that Israel and the PLO were still weeks away from reaching an agreement.
The statement came one day after PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat said that he hoped to sign an accord with Israel next week.
Arafat was also quoted as saying that the PLO was no longer insisting on an independent state.
Today, leaders of the Radical Palestinians' Alliance condemned Arafat's supposed statements.
Also today, the Israeli army has imposed a curfew on the West Bank town of Hebron
after an outbreak of more violence.
The army is hunting for suspected Palestinian gunmen after the shooting of three Jewish settlers early today.
In Germany, a walkout by tens of thousands of workers in the country's crucial engineering sector
is causing alarm in government circles.
Alexa DeVorsen has this report from Cologne.
The 90,000 steel workers who joined the warning strikes today
added their voice to push engineering employers to grant a 6% wage increase.
Leaders of Germany's most powerful union, IG Metall,
say they would accept any concession by employers that would guarantee job security.
According to the unions, the wage freezes and cuts in benefits proposed amount to a real pay cut of 10%.
But employers say plunging order levels and weak profits mean a wage freeze is the only way to save jobs and cut costs.
One executive says a strike to push through unrealistic cost increases is socially irresponsible.
Meanwhile, economists warn a full strike in the metal sector could wreck all growth forecasts
as Germany limps out of recession.
For Pacifica Network News, this is Alexa DeVorsen in Cologne.
Defense Secretary nominee William Perry said today
that the United States aims to prevent North Korea from building more nuclear weapons
but hopes not to use force.
Perry was appearing before the Senate Armed Services Committee
on the first day of his confirmation hearings to be Defense Secretary.
A report from the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies today
says a record number of African Americans served as elected public officials last year.
The report numbered 8,015 blacks serving in 1993
compared to 7,552 the year before.
The center attributed the gains partly to the redrawing of district lines
at the state, local, and congressional levels
and partly to the enforcement of the 1965 Voting Rights Act.
In 1965, just 280 African Americans served as elected officials.
In Texas, the first execution of the year went ahead today.
At 12.27 local time, Harold Bernard was pronounced dead
nine minutes after receiving a lethal dose of chemicals.
Bernard was convicted of the murder of a 16-year-old convenience store clerk
in a 1980 robbery.
He was the 72nd person to die in Texas
since the death penalty was restored in 1980
and the 222nd in the United States since 1976.
And those are the stories topping the news.
Another battle may be brewing over the third nominee
for a head of the Civil Rights Division of the Justice Department.
The president withdrew the other two nominees under political fire
and just one day after the name was announced,
one conservative has already begun taking verbal pot shots.
Pacifica's Don Rush reports.
His name is Deval Patrick, and he's a corporate lawyer
who once worked for the NAACP Legal Defense and Education Fund
during the 1980s.
And civil rights advocates hailed the choice
to head up the Civil Rights Division in the U.S. Justice Department.
Ralph Nees, head of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights.
Deval Patrick brings extraordinary qualifications to the job.
He certainly has exceptional civil rights and legal credentials,
and because of those qualifications,
I personally am quite confident that he will be confirmed in the Senate
by a very substantial bipartisan majority.
But the issues that sank the nomination of Lonnie Guineer,
who also worked for the Legal Defense Fund,
are already coming into play.
Indeed, Clint Bullock with the Conservative Institute for Justice
published his first broadside against Patrick this morning,
less than 24 hours after the announcement.
And civil rights advocates expressed concern
that the White House responds strongly
to any criticism of Patrick
as the nomination makes its way through the U.S. Senate.
Julia Malveaux, a syndicated columnist, put it this way.
If he doesn't come out strong, I think we're going to be in danger.
I think the president has to make it clear
that he stands firmly behind this nominee.
There should be no wavering whatsoever.
He should do the kind of handling for Deval Patrick.
That was done for Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and et cetera.
In the first attack by conservatives,
Bullock, with the Institute for Justice,
charges that both Guineer and Patrick hold a common belief
that unconscious racism permeates American society
and can only be removed through race-conscious social engineering.
Bullock focuses in on the 1987 McCleskey death penalty case.
In that case, Patrick sought to get the death penalty
ruled unconstitutional by demonstrating,
through the use of statistics,
an adverse impact on blacks.
This results-oriented solution, says Bullock,
puts Patrick out of the mainstream.
But Ted Shaw with the NAACP Legal Defense and Education Fund,
says there is no prohibition from using such figures
to further the argument of intentional discrimination
in constitutional cases.
And he notes the Supreme Court turned back Patrick's efforts
by a 5-4 decision.
The Supreme Court didn't deny the truth of that study.
In fact, the majority opinion might have tried to express some skepticism,
but said whatever that study might show,
we aren't going to second-guess juries.
Yesterday, the president said he disagreed with the NAACP's position
on the death penalty.
And civil rights groups played down the significance of such positions.
Shaw was an example.
I think Deval Patrick understands the difference
between being a lawyer for the Legal Defense Fund,
in which you're pushing the law and representing clients,
and being the assistant attorney general for civil rights,
in which the government is your client.
But there are doubts that the Senate is ready for another bruising battle.
Clarence Page with the Chicago Tribune.
I think the real telling sign of this attack on Deval Patrick
for his association with the Legal Defense Fund
is an attack of buzzwords and guilt by association
as Clint Bolick and other conservatives try to portray Bill Clinton
as an advocate of quotas, bussing,
and all the other buzzwords that have hurt Democrats politically
with a number of fearful white voters.
I don't think that's going to work this time, though.
I don't think the Senate Judiciary Committee wants to see another show trial
of the sort they had with Clarence Thomas or Robert Bork.
It should be noted that Clint Bolick refused to talk with Pacifica Network News.
Don Rush, Pacifica Network News, Washington.
Thank you.
New home sales shot up 9.7 percent last year.
In fact, in 1993, new homes sold faster than at any time in the past five years.
That's good news for the economy,
but it won't mean much to people without homes, people living on the street.
What may ultimately have more effect on them, however,
is that a congressional task force on homelessness
has released their final report on recommendations to the Clinton administration.
Mark Beavis reports.
Another congressional task force with yet another report on homelessness.
It's got numbers.
It's got statistics.
But advocates for the homeless are saying this one's different.
They're calling it a big step forward.
Fred Karnas is with the National Coalition for the Homeless.
Any report is just a report until somebody makes it happen.
And obviously one of our roles is going to be to press for some of the changes that they're recommending.
And hopefully, I mean, Congressman Vento has been a leader in this,
and hopefully he will be able to push some of it forward.
The reason this one's different is because it concentrates on long-term solutions.
Until now, most federal efforts have focused on short-term emergency aid
through legislation like the McKinney Act.
That legislation, originally passed in 1987 and scheduled to be reauthorized this year,
spends more than $1 billion on emergency shelters, soup kitchens,
transitional housing, and emergency health programs.
Homelessness is not a short-term phenomenon.
This is a long-term problem that our country is experiencing.
It's important that we begin to deal with the streams that are feeding that problem
rather than try to intercept them at the waterfall.
Minnesota Democratic Representative Bruce Vento, chair of the nine-member task force.
The information that we've gathered shows that 7% of the people in this country
are actually experiencing homelessness at some time in their life.
If you begin to add in the numbers of those that live with family and friends,
you can almost double that number of people that are experiencing that.
And that phenomena is increasing because of the vulnerability of people in our economy,
an economy that's going through restructuring.
Notice the task force actually faulted the economy,
not like President Reagan when he spoke of people living on the street because they want to.
Task force member Representative Lucian Blackwell, Democrat from Pennsylvania.
There's nothing mysterious about homelessness.
We need jobs with livable wages.
We need affordable housing.
And we need national health care to take care of those people who need it.
We have to take care of Americans.
Americans should not be sleeping on the streets.
There's something evil about that, something wrong with that.
And we need to stop it today.
The task force calls for a livable minimum wage.
It says $4.25 an hour is not enough.
It calls for reforming the income support program, such as AFDC, food stamps, and WIC,
to address the specific needs of homeless people.
The task force also emphasized health care, education, and job training reform.
Members of the task force stressed the necessity of having federal agencies working together
to solve the problem of homelessness,
and representatives from several agencies attended the report's release.
Andrew Cuomo is assistant housing secretary.
We have to go through the entire report because it has recommendations
that have ramifications on many different agencies.
But the premise of the report, I think, is in line with the thinking that you see coming out of the White House,
which says we need more of a comprehensive system,
we have to get more discretion down to the local level,
and we have to do more before people become homeless,
because once they become homeless, it's too late.
The report was sent off to the president today.
Despite the urgency of the problem,
members of Congress are not planning any formal legislative package around the recommendations.
As one congressional staff member said,
it will be more of a piecemeal approach.
Fred Karnas with the National Coalition for the Homeless.
I'll hold my optimism until I see what happens next.
I mean, I think we're operating in an environment
where there's a lot of talk about limited resources and networking
and linking together what you always hear when there's no money.
And a lot of that can help,
but we have to have money to really make some things happen,
particularly as we talk about affordable housing.
Mark Beavis, Pacifica Network News, Washington.
The number of homeless people in this country has risen dramatically over the last two decades,
but it's not a new phenomena.
Unfortunately, homelessness is as American as the little frame house with the white picket fence.
In fact, it was a lack of affordable housing,
along with a host of other social ills,
that helped spawn one of the most militant political action groups in America,
the Black Panthers.
David Hillgett is one of the founding members of the Black Panther Party.
He's the author of a book titled This Side of Glory.
The book says Hillgett gives him a chance to record his version for history.
We were an organization trying to make life better for blacks in the area of jobs and education,
and primarily our organization was always a political organization with a political agenda,
actually a 10-point program that we get very little focus on.
And as you opened the discussion, you know,
saying that we were a violent militant organization, quite the contrary.
We were a self-defense organization.
What I said was that many people may associate violence and militancy with the organization.
However, I remember that the original goals had a lot to do with nonviolence and politics.
We were a self-defense organization,
and the guns were really only one manifestation of our self-defense program.
We also defined self-defense against inadequate health care systems
and self-defense against unemployment,
which gave rise to our quest for full employment for our people as spelled out in our 10-point program
and free food programs, which I helped initiate in our Breakfast for Children program in 1968.
So we were a political organization who believed in our right to self-defense.
There are reports of new armed Black Panther organizations in at least 20 cities across the U.S.
Are you personally aware of them?
Do you have any input into them?
Well, I'm aware of the resurgence of Panther chapters.
There's one in particular here is in Dallas, Texas, called the new Black Panther Party.
But I have not been apprised of any organizations who are actually running around patrolling police with armed weapons.
And personally, I'm not involved with any of those groups.
But I do think that there is a need for a resurgence of the Black Panther Party, you know, in our youth
to carry forth our unfinished agenda spelled out in our 10-point program
because there's still homelessness and there's a need for jobs.
And certainly there's a need for organizations to put an end to black-on-black violence.
I think that people should do it, but certainly I do not advocate armed resistance against a United States government
that will do to black folks many times over what they saw happen to the Davidians in Texas.
It is absolutely homicidal, it's suicide to talk about an armed rebellion against this government.
That's absolutely insane.
Do you think that history has been fair to how the Black Panthers has been portrayed?
No, I think that we've been portrayed as gangsters, that we were gun-toting youth who really had no political agenda.
It is only because of my book, Elaine Brown's book, A Taste of Power, that we have the occasion to define our own history.
I like to think that this is really our moment of definition.
This is our time to tell our own story left up to the biographers, the FBI, which is where most of you get your knowledge from
through the COINTELPRO documents, through police information.
You get a very slanted view, even the most well-meaning journalists.
What is the story that, in your opinion, has not been told?
This is an opportunity for you to share that with us.
Well, it has not been made clear that we were a political organization and that our agenda was one of self-defense.
That what we were asking for were things spelled out in the Constitution, that we had an economic development agenda
that called for those things that I outlined earlier.
We were armed because we were a self-defense organization, but the guns were only one manifestation of what we considered our right to self-defense.
And I don't pick any bones about that.
We were being killed, as blacks are now, and the police were just running rampant throughout our communities in a state of lawlessness.
Listen, we had a right to defend our lives, and that's what we were about.
But in the final analysis, we were not about unprovoked attacks against the police.
We were about trying to carry forth our political agenda.
David Hilliard of the Black Panther Party.
You're listening to the WBAI Evening News.
I'm Jose Santiago in New York.
In local news, Mayor Giuliani today proposed a $31.2 billion city budget for the new fiscal year beginning July 1st.
The plan is the first shot in the mayor's quest to close a projected $2.3 billion budget gap.
And as predicted, he wants labor to bear the brunt of those cuts.
David Sears has the story.
New York City has a bigger budget than all but two states.
Today, Mayor Giuliani proposed reducing the amount the city will spend next year to half a billion dollars less than the current budget.
Giuliani says the problem is city government is just too large, and without firm action to reduce costs now, the budget gap could grow to $3.3 billion by 1998.
His plan?
To permanently reduce the city government's workforce.
What we have to do is to downsize the city workforce by about $30,000 to $35,000 over a four-year period.
And that we should try to do it with attrition, with encouraging attrition, and also where necessary with layoffs.
We think we have come up with a way that can accelerate that, make it happen earlier, and then possibly reduce some of the pain and difficulties of it in later years if we can do it quickly enough.
Reducing the pain in this case means getting $200 million from the Municipal Assistance Corporation to offer a severance pay, inducing workers to leave government.
Giuliani wants to reduce the city payroll by 8,000 workers by July 1st, and he says he's already identified about 5,500 jobs.