If you never turn your radio off and keep it tuned to WBAI 99.5 FM,
you will hear every episode of Poisoned Arts at its regularly scheduled times,
just before 7 a.m. and just before 4 p.m. Monday through Thursday.
Poisoned Arts, the amoeba that ate WBAI.
Let's eat!
When I ask you to be ready, please remove it, do anything necessary, arrest him if you have it.
Let them talk if they want to.
Let them talk with Paul DiRienzo, keeping an eye on the New World Order,
1.30 Wednesday night, Thursday morning, following Robert Knight.
Let them talk on WBAI 99.5 FM.
Love you so, let them whisper, for they know not what's between you and I.
I'll keep on loving you until the day I got you.
And it's just about 10 o'clock at night on Wednesday.
Time once again for Off the Hook.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
It couldn't get much worse, but if it could, it would.
Bumbingly bumpers are best expect the worst.
I hope that's understood.
Bumbingly bumpers!
Bumbingly bumpers!
Bumbingly bumpers!
Bumbingly bumpers!
Bumbingly bumpers!
Bumbingly bumpers!
And good evening to
one and all. This is Emanuel Goldstein. The program
is off the hook. And we come your way
every week at this time to bring you the latest
in the news of technology, the internet,
telephones, computers,
whatnot.
And it's been a fun, hectic
week. It's
the week of the 2600 meetings around the world
which come every Friday here in New York.
Of course, you can
meet a bunch of hackers by
going down to
the Citicore Center on
Friday afternoon at
5pm and hanging
out until around 8pm. And you'll
meet all kinds of strange and interesting
people. And you know what? There's going to be
something happening this summer that is going to
increase the number of strange, interesting
people in this city by a hundred
fold. And
what's that noise?
Wow, you hear that? That's the sound of magic.
Okay.
We have something else that we're going to be doing today
which is going to be really interesting as well. But we'll get to that.
We'll get to that in just a moment.
So, we're going
to take some phone calls a little later on as far as
other particular
news-worthy items go.
And I guess before we get
into an important announcement
that we have to make, and before we
get into a very important technical thing
that we've never done before, but we will do here
in just a few minutes,
let's take a look at some of the news
that's been going on over the past
week.
Sit tight and listen keenly
While I play for you know
a brand new musical biscuit
I hope you realize
you're playing a guy
And this time I'll bet you
it's bad
Well, you're never going to be
going to guess, but I'm on the internet right now.
This is incredible.
We're on the internet at the same time
that we're on the radio
And if you have access to the internet
well, get access now
and maybe we can chat in a little while.
Who knows?
We'll be taking phone calls
but we'll also be on the internet
and we'll be able to
talk to you real time that way.
Not quite sure how we're going to set this up yet
but we're going to do something neat.
Okay, let's take a look at some of the things
that have been going on
courtesy of the Risks Digest
that wonderful electronic publication
that you can get
on the internet
and on Usenet
In case it sounds to those of you
those uninitiated masses out there
and I don't mean that in a bad way
most people are uninitiated
because, well
the powers that be
like you to be uninitiated
but we're here to change that.
The internet is not
a commercial entity
it might sound like
we're advertising
some sort of a commercial service here
when we say
join us on the internet
it's not like we're saying
join us on CompuServe
or join us on Genie or Delphi
we'd never say anything like that
in the first place
because those are commercial entities
and of course
there's probably other reasons
why we wouldn't say that too
but we're not going to get into that.
The internet is this
amazing meeting place
of the minds
that can
take place over continents
it can take place over time
it can take place over space
and energy
and anything else you can think of
and that's where we are
tonight.
as well as on the radio
if you don't have access
to the internet
don't fret
because tonight
in a way
you will.
Pretty neat, huh?
Okay, let's take a look at
some things that came over
the Risk's Digest.
The California Department
of Motor Vehicles
has informed a flabbergasted
legislative committee
that it has spent
44.3 million dollars
on a computer modernization program
that will never work.
This is unconscionable to me
said
Assemblywoman Valerie Brown
of Santa Rosa
According to the
San Diego Union
she
spluttered this
I've never heard of that word before
I can't even explain this
to people
she said
DMV director
Frank Zolin
muttered
I'm having a difficult time
explaining it myself
The department's position
is that the software maker
isn't responsible
the hardware maker
isn't responsible
and the taxpayers
are just going to eat the cost
Transportation Committee
Chairman Richard Katz
said that
The DMV started the project
in 1988
and has been quietly
spending millions of dollars
a year on it
with little oversight
and even less success
Dan Folk
a sacramental computer consultant
who has been working
with the DMV
on the ill-fated venture
called it
a combination
of errors
from the beginning
How many times
have we heard this?
Falk said
the plan
to invisibly convert
a circa 1965 database
to a modern relational database
using tandem
cyclone mainframes
was too giant
a leap of technology
and involved
insurmountable
incompatibilities
between hardware platforms
and program code
Painful, huh?
We've learned a lot
from mistakes we made
That's basically
the gist of this story
Alright, let's see
what else is happening here
This is kind of
an interesting item
concerning home alarms
The April 24th edition
of the Sacramento Bee
Great name for a newspaper
The Sacramento Bee
They published a story
about a miniature camera
that will revolutionize
the Sacramento area
security alarm industry
Some important points
of the article
A miniature camera
on a chip
about the size
of a postage stamp
is attached
to an alarm system
When the alarm
is tripped
the camera sends
four pictures
back to the alarm
monitoring service
and presumably
the pictures
are digitally encoded
and sent through
some sort of a modem
and the first picture
arrives 20 seconds
after the alarm
is tripped
Police are particularly
excited about this
because it will let them
use the pictures
to detect false alarms
and whatnot
The system is intended
to be used
in a wide variety
of businesses
and also residences
The photographs
will be usable
as evidence in court
against robbers
and burglars
The camera is so small
that it can be easily
hidden anywhere
the size of a postage stamp
It is also inexpensive
one-third to one-half
the cost of a
closed-circuit video camera
How can anybody resist?
The pictures come out
pretty clear
according to a police
communications supervisor
Now
according to the
person that
submitted this
to the Risk Digest
someone by the name
of Dan Zerkel
He has some concerns
over this
He says
It only takes four pictures
which are presumably
freeze frames
A burglar may trip
the alarm
yet not be photographed
perhaps going by
the camera between pictures
The alarm agency
or police may see
that the pictures
don't show anything
and thus believe
it's a false alarm
They may then
decline to respond
or may respond
inappropriately
This is a perfect
spy device
and will be easily
available at a price
less than a simple
video camera
The potential abuses
of such a device
are many
but employee monitoring
is one
Your boss could point
one at your work area
to watch you
and you'll never know
A hidden security camera
is really a spy camera
equivalent to an audio bug
In fact, the article
mentions that it could be
used against internal thefts
You know, they have those
in the post office
If you look in the back room
you'll see little
black windows
and that's where they
put cameras
to watch all the
postal employees
to make sure
they don't take anything
throughout the course
of an entire day
How would you like
to have every movement
you make monitored
watched
analyzed
scrutinized
It's happening already
If someone says
the pictures are
pretty clear
that means
that they aren't
entirely clear
And
if police trust
pictures too much
well
the potential is there
for police to
misidentify a suspect
based on a picture
but firmly believe
that they are right
This is especially likely
if the pictures
are monochrome
as the first picture
arrives in 20 seconds
they are certainly
low resolution
consider
connection time
for modems
and various things
like that
A camera in my residence
what if it starts
sending pictures
back to the alarm
company at random
What if some voyeur
at an alarm company
figures out
how to get pictures
whenever he wants
Most people
who have these
alarm systems
will not know
how they work
so they won't be
aware of these risks
You know
it's kind of scary
some of the things
that are happening
out there
Cameras are probably
one of the scariest
things
Okay
Hey
we already have
a message from
somebody on
a program called
IRC
If any of you
are out there
on the internet
join IRC now
This person says
I am listening to
your show
as we chat
Well how nice
What we're going
to do
we're going to
make a channel
on IRC
We're going to
call it WBAI
Okay
I've just created
it now
I'm on that
channel
And someone
has already
joined the channel
from City
University of
New York
That's something
Hi
Euron
I guess that's
how you pronounce
your name
And Gunfury
has joined us
as well
Okay
I'm going to
invite a bunch
of people now
from the
hacking channel
to join us
Okay
Gunfury says
hi
Euron says
hi
Let's go over
to the
hack channel
here
There's a lot
of people
on the
hack channel
Now
we're going
to tell them
come over
to the
WBAI
channel
and be
on the
radio
live
Okay
that's been
transmitted to
everybody on
the hack channel
and now
we're going
back to the
WBAI channel
we're going
to talk
exclusively
over there
Okay
let's see
who we have
on the
WBAI channel
Well
we have
Gray Area
we have
Mavario
Columb
I believe
is how you
pronounce that
from
it's hard
to say
where these
people are
from
exactly
Collision
Shift
Block
Gunfury
Euron
and of
course
Emanuel
Yes
Okay
people
what's
on your
minds
who wants
to lead
the discussion
here on
the internet
Anybody
I would like
to say
that without
Clipper
Bill Clinton
would have
much better
posture
according to
Pug Guy
Gauss 3
says hi
all
Well
we say
hi
right back
Euron
says hello
Okay
now this
will really
be fun
when we
get
DAI
listeners
involved
and we
can talk
back and
forth
between
the net
and between
people
on the
radio
Bug Guy
continuing
with his
Clinton
observations
here
would be
almost
four inches
taller
I imagine
Digital
Freedom
Now
from
Collision
I kind
of like
the beep
of course
no one's
beeped yet
so we want
to send
the beep
okay
what station
is this
on
we're
being asked
on there
so I'm
going to
tell people
oh there's
the beep
that's not
so bad
the radio
station
is
WBAI
99.5
FM
in
New York
City
this is
going all
throughout
the world
live
and you
know
to me
it doesn't
really seem
that amazing
because
we've been
doing this
so many
times
99.5
FM
everyone is
saying
99.5
FM
they all
know
about
this
but I
mean I've
been on IRC
so many
times
I've been
on the net
so many
times
but to the
vast majority
of people
they don't
know what
it's all
about
and that's
important
that's
important
to
you want
me to
say hi
to
Washington
Heights
okay
I'm
saying
hi
to
Washington
Heights
hi
up
there
okay
don't
say those
words
no you
see that
we can
say whatever
words we
want on
the internet
but we
can't say
those words
over the
radio
of course
not
how are you
transmitting
this with
audio
no we're
not using
Homer
that's a
voice program
we're simply
reading it
over there
that's my
voice
it's not
a program
okay
someone's
saying the
nets are
going down
I don't
know if
they are
going down
at all
I am
in Queens
according to
Pinto
hello Pinto
in Queens
this is from
Junior
Rincon
mention my
name please
Emmanuel
well you
got your
wish
there
this is
from
George
Francis
McLean
is it
really
or is
it a
fake
okay
we're going
to come
back to
this and
have all
kinds of
fun things
going on
and we
have a
special
announcement
coming up
so stay
with us
we'll be
back in
just a
couple
of
minutes
I'm the
governor
Pete
Wilson
you know
the
baddest
governor
to ever
grab a
mic
and go
boom
give me a
budget
watch me
hack it
give me a
beat and I'll
show you how to
jack it
I give the rich a
giant tax loophole
I leave the poor
living in a poophole
out of time when
AIDS is in a crisis
I cut health care
and I raise prices
sales tax
NAC tax
excite tax
information tax
with a newspaper
tax
it's a pocketbook
of working
families
increased tuition
at the university
one day I'll
command all of you
even the kids
are gonna pray
to me in school
soon I'm going
to be the
president
you might remember
the last one
this state sent
California
Uber Alice
California
Uber Alice
California
Uber Alice
California
Uber Alice
I'm surprised to
know the great
communicator
wanna be known
as the great
incarcerator
I'll blow
environmentalists
away
and I'll be
the furor
someday
I keep cutting
public education
even though we
rank 45th in the
nation
I've got a plan
for the minorities
send them to the
California Youth
Authority
from San Francisco
Urban Elementary
to Pelican Bay
State Penitentiary
there they can
work for the
master race
and always wear
a happy face
close your eyes
it can't happen
here
big brother
and his squad
cars coming
near
come enjoy
the surf and
sun
and keep
California
number one
California
Uber Alice
California
Uber Alice
California
Uber Alice
California
Uber
Alice
California
California
Hola
California
California
California
California
California
California
California
California
California
California
California
California
California
California
California
California
Now it's 1991
Knock knock at your front door
Let's have big fun
It's a sway down secret police
They come to your house for your long-haired niece
Gonna take her off to a camp
She's been accused of growing hemp
Don't you worry, it's only a shower
And now for your clothes, here's a pretty flower
Gonna die and malify on gas
The surface air has already been hatched
People starving, living in the streets
Because they try to mess with me, President P
California, Uber Alice
California, Uber Alice
California, Uber Alice
California, Uber Alice
California, Uber Alice
California, Uber Alice
California, Uber Alice
California, Uber Alice
California, Uber Alice
California, Uber Alice
California, Uber Alice
California, Uber Alice
California, Uber Alice
California, Uber Alice
California, Uber Alice
California, Uber Alice
California, Uber Alice
California, Uber Alice
And this is a group with one of the best names I've ever heard.
The disposable heroes of hip-hop for C.
Yes, hip-hop for C.
Doing a Dead Kennedys cover.
Yeah, I bet you never thought you'd hear that.
A Dead Kennedys cover.
California Uberalis from Alternative Tentacles.
What fun.
Hey, speaking of fun, speaking of dangers to our individual liberty,
you know, I went out this week and I bought a six-pack of beer.
Yeah, well, I don't do that very often.
It's kind of a big event when I do.
But, you know, I went out and did this at a local supermarket,
not really thinking anything of it.
But, apparently, since I've done this last,
they've installed some sort of a computer system that won't allow the sale to go through
until they check to make sure the person is 21 or above.
Now, I always consider it a compliment to get proof,
but this is something that doesn't...
The human intellect does not enter into this at all.
It's something they have to do.
And so the person said, can you prove you're 21?
And I said, yeah, sure.
Ask me a question about the 60s or something.
But that wasn't good enough.
They wanted to see my license.
So I gave them my license.
I figured they'd just look at the license and see that I was over 21 and put it back.
But no, you know what they did?
They took my license and they entered numbers from it.
They entered numbers from my license into their computer.
So somewhere, there is a record of me buying beer in this particular supermarket's computer
and who knows what other computers that computer talks to.
And this is what they do for everybody that buys alcohol now
in that particular area, maybe in a lot of areas now.
They enter your driver's license number.
That's scary.
I mean, I don't want people to know if I'm drinking Pepsi.
I don't want people to know anything.
I just want to be left alone.
I want to be, you know, private.
Private, solitary citizen.
That's all we ever hope for.
So, anyway, that's what's happening out there in the scary world.
And we are here in the friendly world, friendly world of WBAI.
And, of course, next week, as you know, begins our pledge week, or pledge three weeks, actually,
the WBAI Spring Marathon, where we ask for your support.
So please be around next week.
We'll have a special two-hour show from 10 to 12.
And we'll be hoping that people out there will help us out
so we can continue doing amazing things like we're doing right now.
Okay.
We're on the Internet.
We're going to be taking some phone calls in just a couple of minutes at 212-279-3400.
I'd like to, first of all, speak to the people on the net right now.
We have 24 people that are on our particular WBAI channel.
If you have access to the Internet and you can run a program called IRC on the Internet,
join the WBAI channel.
You type IRC at your regular prompt, wherever that might be,
and then you type slash join, pound sign, WBAI.
If you've used IRC, you're probably very familiar with that.
We created the WBAI channel simply by joining it first.
And that creates the channel, and people all across the planet can now join that particular channel.
It's amazing.
I mean, it's just so incredibly simple, but it's so incredibly amazing at the same time.
All right.
What we're going to do now, I'm going to ask the people on the Internet right now.
I'm going to address them both on the radio and on the net.
But people on IRC, tell us where you are located now.
And why didn't that go over?
Okay.
Apparently, we have some kind of a net lag.
Is that what we have?
Okay.
We have technical problems.
That's another thing that we always have.
Is it a lag of some sort?
Reboot.
The system froze on us?
Okay.
We're going to have our technical people work on this.
Let us know when we're back online.
All right.
We're going to go to the telephones then.
212-279-3400.
This kind of thing happens all the time.
Computers crash.
Phone lines go dead.
Unexplainable things happen.
Yeah, I know.
We have to call back.
Okay.
So, you want to dial to him now?
Okay.
You signal me when you want to dial to him.
You know, actually, I don't know if we can take phone calls then with that thing on.
No, we can't.
We can't take phone calls with that.
Can we do it with the acoustic thing?
Can we do the acoustic?
Yeah.
Do it with the acoustic thing and use this line over there.
Okay.
We have to toggle some things, but we will be back online in just a couple of minutes,
and we have that special announcement, which we will make simultaneously online and on
the air.
Let's go to the telephones at 212-279-3400.
Good evening.
You're on the radio, and you sound like a dial tone.
Damn good imitation.
Good evening.
You're on the radio.
Hey, Manuel.
I didn't know you drank beer.
You sound like a dial tone, too.
I'm just kidding.
How do you always manage to be first?
I don't understand it.
They time out.
The phones hang up.
You somehow manage to be first.
All right.
Are you using a laptop?
Well, we're not using a mainframe.
Yeah, we're using a laptop.
No, but you have to call into a modem to get onto the Internet, right?
That's right, yes.
You have to call into a modem.
You call a special phone number, and you hook your telephone up through your computer,
and it all speaks to the Internet.
Right, but you have to have Internet access.
You have to call a number that gives you Internet access.
Right, but getting Internet access is easier and easier, and we're going to help people
get on the net.
That's what I'd like to do.
All I have is an email address.
I can't get onto IRC or anything like that.
Otherwise, I'd be on that IRC thing.
Day and night, I'll bet.
Of course.
Well, the IRC people, I'm sure, are hearing this, and they know their days of relative
freedom are over.
How do they hear it?
What do you mean they're hearing it?
Well, some people are in New York, and they have access to the net, and they're on IRC
and listening at the same time.
One thing I want to know.
Does ANI...
You want to try that again?
Just take a deep breath and start over.
All right.
Okay.
The question is, is ANI restricted to 800 and 900 numbers?
Can seven-digit local numbers have ANI?
ANI is something that can be transmitted on any long-distance call.
In fact, that's how a lot of caller ID signals are being received, because it starts off as ANI.
So, yeah, I mean, that is something.
When you call your operator, they are getting an ANI readout, or an ANI failure.
They don't have ANI.
I'm sorry?
When you call a 950 number, they don't have ANI.
Well, those are 950 numbers.
They're different.
You know, not every number does.
It's mostly used by long-distance companies, but let's face it.
We're approaching the day where all this technology is going to be integrated local and long-distance
and international and everything.
When I use the 950 number...
That's what they're pushing for.
They asked me what number I'm calling from, and I gave them a fake number, and then that
number went on the bill.
950s are a good way to make anonymous calls still, but there's rapidly less and less of
those kinds of calls that are able to be made.
So, that's something to be aware of.
And I remember, I just was using the call card in the...
By the way, the Port Authority's call cards, TCG telephones, they're in LaGuardia Airport,
the World Trade Center, and the Port Authority bus terminal.
Now, they will trip down to a dial tone, and you can dial numbers from it.
You see, their trunk, they're on like a PBX, like a DID PBX, all those call cards are
connected to.
Yeah.
And you can...
They'll trip down to a regular dial tone after you connect to something, which will be the
dial tone of the trunk line.
And then you can make free phone calls.
I called 900 numbers, and 970 numbers, and long distance, and international.
Uh-huh.
Well, that's great.
Oh, I heard touch tones there.
Is that actually going through?
That wasn't me.
No, I know it wasn't you.
We're trying to get back on the net here.
Oh.
You know, if you want, we can try it the old way.
It's busy?
Okay.
We're hitting a busy signal as well.
Yeah, I would use that one over there.
Okay, we're going to move on to another phone call.
Okay?
All right.
All right, thanks for calling.
Oh, did you want us to...
No.
Thanks anyway, though.
I'm not quite sure what he was going to ask, but probably not.
Good evening.
You're on the radio.
Hello.
How are you doing?
Great.
I was wondering, have you heard anything about Linux?
It's a Unix clone.
Yeah, Linux is a...
Or Linux, depending on who you speak to, is a public access Unix system that you can
download and run on, I believe, a 386, a 486, any kind of machine you might have in your
home, and become a system administrator, learn all about Unix, tie yourself into the
internet.
It can get very, very complicated, but it can also be very simple, depending on your abilities,
depending on what it is you want to do.
It's something I definitely recommend looking into.
Download it and play with it.
Yeah, I've been trying to set it up.
I've been trying to set up my...
I've actually switched from a DOS-based BVS to something built around Unix, and I've been
trying to Linux out.
It's been actually difficult going, but it's been interesting, too.
It's been a real learning experience.
I've been trying to get my system hooked up to the internet.
And I guess the biggest thing is for a DOS user to think of things in a multi-user way,
you know?
Uh-huh.
Yeah, I mean, that's the way of the future.
That's the way of the future.
I'm just glad to see you actually heard of it, you know?
No, it's very popular, very popular in the hacker world.
Everybody is downloading Linux and playing with it.
And that's a good thing, because there's a lot of support from the hacker community.
There's a lot of people out there that will answer your questions if you have any problems.
Well, I love your show.
Thanks a lot.
Okay, thanks for calling.
Okay, we're having trouble here getting through again, aren't we?
We can try the old system.
You want to go back to that, since we know that works?
Okay, we're troubleshooting here.
We'll be back on the net in just a little while.
No need to fret.
We have a half hour left, and we will be back on.
I don't know what happened.
We just somehow froze up.
The computer froze.
Well, let's throw that thing out the window next time we get near one.
Good evening.
You're on the radio.
Yes.
Oh, yeah.
I want to get on the air.
Okay, you're on the air.
Oh, I'm on the air?
You're on the air and on the radio.
But you're not on the net.
Not yet.
No, I'm not on the net.
That's what I'm calling to ask about.
Okay.
Because I have a computer, but I'm new at this.
And I hear these terms, internet and the hacking.
And I'm trying to find out.
How can I find out more information about this?
Well, probably the best way to find out more information is to keep listening,
because we're going to provide people with ways of getting onto the net over the next few weeks.
We'll be talking about that in depth.
And did you say you did have a computer or you don't?
I have a computer.
Okay.
What kind of computer do you have?
It's a 386, a Dell.
Uh-huh.
Do you have a modem?
I have a modem, but I don't have a phone line hooked up to it.
Okay.
Well, that's relatively simple.
Obviously, you have a phone line.
And so hooking the phone line up to the modem is as simple as plugging in the actual modular cord.
And then plugging the modem into the computer and simply dialing from there.
And your computer basically uses the phone instead of you.
Right.
And then you connect to an internet provider of sorts.
From there, you hop onto the net and you can take part in things like IRC, internet mail, news groups of various sorts, things like that.
Is that something I have to pay for, internet?
There are charges, yes.
But the charges are relatively low compared to some of the commercial services.
Oh.
So we'll help people get on.
That's one of our projects that we're working on over the next few months.
Okay.
Well, I'll keep listening.
Keep listening.
Keep listening.
And also listen to the personal computer show, which is on before this one.
Oh, yeah.
I've listened to that before, too.
And I enjoy your show.
Okay.
Thanks for calling.
All right.
All right.
Now, I think we should go back to the old system.
Okay?
That's what we're going to do.
We're going to...
I don't think this will affect the callers.
Let's hope not, anyway.
So I'll give you a dial tone.
And we just have to unplug this phone here.
Okay?
Okay.
You guys have a dial tone.
I think that won't affect...
I don't think it will affect what's going on.
It might, though.
Okay.
I'm going to take a call here.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hello?
You're on the air.
Okay.
Apparently, it does affect things, so we can't do it that way.
We can't do it that way, unfortunately.
So we're going to have to figure out a way to route that phone.
So you guys keep trying.
Why don't you work in the back there so you're not so underfoot here?
Thank you very much.
And I need this over here.
Let's go back to the phones.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Let's go back to the phone.
Let's go back to the phone.
Let's go back to the phone.
Let's go back to the phone.
Hmm.
Okay.
Let's get rid of that.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hello?
Yes.
Go ahead.
I have a question.
Yeah.
I was arrested for PBX-ing.
PBX-ing, meaning using a company's phone system to make free phone calls.
Is that the definition?
Yes.
Okay.
A friend of mine is carding.
Carding.
That is stealing merchandise using credit card numbers.
No, no, no.
Phone cards.
Phone cards.
That is making telephone calls with calling card numbers.
Yes.
And are you telling me that it's safe?
Is this true?
No.
No?
No.
But thanks for the question.
Anytime you commit a crime, it's not safe.
It's something you've got to remember.
And when you do things like that, it's committing a crime.
It's very simple to realize that.
That's, you know, using things that don't belong to you to gain access to things.
I mean, I don't want to sound like a, you know, some sort of a person that plays by all the rules and everything like that.
But there are certain things like, you know, using a system and not paying for the service is something that someone's going to get angry about.
It's very simple.
Experimenting with a system, though, and figuring out ways to make it do different things, it's a bit more nebulous.
Someone's still going to get angry, but is it technically breaking the law?
Who's to say?
But at least recognize that there is a risk involved.
That's very important.
Okay.
Let's go to the phones.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Okay.
Question on hardware.
Using regular single-line phones.
I use one occasionally to dial, like, my 800 bank number to find out my balance.
And it requires entering, you know, the number of digits in your check number.
When I do that on one phone, it dies out after about five numbers and I get nothing.
I use another phone on the same line and I get through.
Is there something I should look for in the one phone that doesn't get through?
Wait, you're using...
Normally, in every other case.
Uh-huh.
Every other case being what?
Every time you...
Regular numbers.
Mm-hmm.
It's just when I have these numerous digits, uh, like a six-number, uh, check number account.
Right.
In addition to the 800 number.
And then you have to enter the pound sign.
As soon as I hit, like, the fifth digit, I get nothing.
I go to the other phone, same single-line phone on the same line, and it works fine.
Well, it's not...
It's not...
You're doing this from your home?
Yeah.
Or my office.
Or your office.
But you're using the same phone.
Right.
No, two different phones.
Two different phones, but you're having the same problem.
Same line.
Okay.
Same telephone line.
Right.
But you're saying it happens at your home and your office.
I'm sorry?
You're saying this happens at your home and your office?
No, just at my, uh, office.
Just at your office.
Okay.
But I haven't tried it at the, uh, uh, at home.
Uh-huh.
Well, I mean, you have to...
You have to sort of narrow down where the problem is coming from.
You say it happens on...
Just one phone.
On just one phone.
So, obviously, the problem is with that just one phone.
I was just wondering if you knew, is that, uh, something common with certain types of...
It cuts out your tones after a certain number.
Right.
Exactly.
Well, can you pinpoint how many, how many, uh, numbers it takes before it cuts off?
Of five.
Uh-huh.
Okay.
Usually six.
Five numbers on top of what you dial.
Right.
But in the end, Rob, you're giving a menu that says, if you want checking, press one.
Uh-huh.
You want your balance, press two.
Right.
And that all works.
It's just, after they ask me, uh, you know, to enter my check number with the pound sign,
that's when I lose it on that one phone.
Really?
If it's a big deal, uh, I just thought maybe you might have, uh, had some exposure to it.
No.
Okay.
This might give you a clue.
Okay.
Well, that's, uh, it's, it's a bad phone.
I mean, I would not use a phone like that.
Okay.
But it works in everything else.
Well, I mean, it makes phone calls.
It picks up phone calls.
Exactly.
It rings.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But, I mean, phones are supposed to do that.
It's supposed to do a lot more than that.
One other quickie.
On the same phone, I put in a, like, a 25-foot extension cord.
Uh-huh.
When I put that in, it works fine, except that the dial tone is, like, screechy.
Uh-huh.
Is it the 20, obviously, it's the 25-foot line, but it must be this phone.
I would, I would say most of your problems are coming from your phone, yeah.
So, get rid of that.
What kind of phone is it, if you don't mind?
A Cobra.
It's a Cobra phone.
It's a push button.
Okay, well.
It's at least three, four years old, and like I said, I use it every day.
Well, there may be a Cobra support group out there that meets monthly and talks to each
other about these problems, but I would definitely try something else, because, I mean, those
are the kind of hassles that people pay good money to co-cuts to get.
So, we should have to have those kind of hassles at home.
Okay.
Thanks, anyway.
All right.
Thanks for your call.
Bye.
All right.
Are we getting anywhere?
We're not getting anywhere.
Okay.
Let's go back to the old way where we can't take phone calls, and we can be on the net.
Because, basically, what this boils down to is that the BAI phone system stinks.
We all know that.
It can't, apparently, it can't modulate the signal loud enough, so that the modem...
We're going to try something else?
Okay.
Okay.
But we're running out of time here, and we have to be on the network in the next couple
of minutes.
All right.
Let's take a couple more phone calls, and then we'll go back on the net.
Good evening.
You're on.
Whoa.
Good evening.
You're on.
That's 9X doing that to us.
Good evening.
You're on.
Oh, hello.
How are you?
I'm finally.
I'm glad I got through.
It keeps hanging up.
Briefly, let me show the radio.
What are you attempting to do tonight?
I tuned in late, and then I have a question or two of you.
Okay.
We're trying to get back on the net.
We were on the net before, but something went wrong with the computer here.
You're trying to write in with phone calls?
Yeah.
Well, it seems like our system is incapable of doing both at once, so we're going to have
to make a choice and do the net, and then go back to phone calls.
This is a phone call.
But, basically, we had about 24 people that are online at the same time talking to us.
Uh-huh.
On a WBAI channel, which is on the internet, so...
It sounds both cool and scary at the same time.
It's scary.
It's cool.
It's fun.
I have two brief questions.
How's Fiber doing?
Fiber is doing okay.
Investigate that claim he made about them maybe putting chemicals in the food.
Remember, he spoke about that in the interview.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's, you know, it might sound kind of ridiculous, but when you're in a prison, strange
things do happen to your mind after a while.
You feel very, very dull.
You're saying it's more the trouble with him than with the actual...
Well, it's a trouble with being imprisoned.
That's a very...
You have to like...
It's a very definite problem.
...come up and stuff.
My last question, just briefly, it's not on the topic, but I just signed up for that
sprint voice recognition long distance calling card.
Uh-huh.
It seems to be working pretty well.
Maybe could you briefly just discuss the technology behind it and maybe devote a show to it?
Well, we are going to be experimenting with that, but I could...
In my case, it works very well, even though it's a dialer call, it's like really cool.
Well, let me just ask you something about that service.
Now, when you use it, you go to a pay phone and you use this system...
It's probably a scientific American.
Yeah, I can use it from any phone.
You dial the 800 number.
You vocally say your number, which is your...
Social security number.
No, it's five plus your social security number.
And sometimes they may ask you to punch in your PIN number if, like, your voice is funny
or something, or it will automatically ask you what, you know, to call so-and-so.
You just say call so-and-so.
Uh-huh.
But you only have to enter your PIN number when you're programming it or, like, changing
what you have in the memory.
But are you not saying your social security number out loud in a public place?
Yes, but I mean, I assume most people don't know that it's number five plus your social security number.
Well, I imagine anybody hearing five plus another nine digits.
It's only for your voice.
Yes, but you're saying it could be a brief social security number.
Uh-huh.
I don't...
I don't...
You're saying that...
Yeah, I mean, I don't...
The social security number is something that should be kept private.
I don't like the fact that they're using that as an identification and a public one at that.
I have not really experimented with the system.
We're going to get an account.
We're going to play with it on the air.
We'll figure it out.
We'll see what kind of...
Yeah, like, it seems to work pretty good.
And they also have operator assistance if you need to talk to someone live.
Uh-huh.
But do you think this is the future of...
I think 9X is getting it, too, or something?
It has a TV ad.
Well, voice recognition is popping up everywhere.
The Sprint one is kind of an impressive one.
So, like, I can't be on the net, huh?
Well, unless you have a computer and a modem right now, it's going to be...
Only in my head.
This is a first step.
Let's put it that way.
It's a first step, and it's a bit of a stumble, too, but we're going to get there.
Okay, well, first you have to take out all the CIA devices and the BAI phone lines.
Well, that's probably what's causing all the problems.
Take care, buddy.
All right, take care.
Let's go back to the net now.
We're going to use that phone, and we're going to grab a line.
You want a line now?
Okay.
We have a line.
We're calling up the net.
It means we can't take phone calls temporarily until we get back.
And once we're logged on, we'll see how quickly this whole procedure takes.
Okay, we're dialing, and we will have something hooked up in just a moment.
I don't know if we can hear this on the air.
Okay, that's a connection there.
Okay.
That's a high-speed connection, folks.
Makes a lot of noise.
Okay, are we online?
Okay, great.
We're connected at 19.2.
I'm going to log in now to a system that will be anonymous for now, but we'll give you more information later on as far as this kind of...
You know, I forgot my password.
Did I remember my password?
Since we just set this up a few minutes ago, I don't remember.
Thank you very much.
I'm losing my mind here.
Okay, we're back on IRC now.
We're going to join the WBAI channel and see who's there.
Okay, we have a lot of people here.
And I'm going to tell them we're back.
Now, we're going to ask people once more, where is everybody calling from?
Let's see what kind of response we get.
Everybody's saying hi, hello, and boy, this is coming over fast.
Okay, we've got Bridgewater, New Jersey.
South Jersey.
Thanks for the opt.
Philadelphia.
Queens.
Kew Gardens.
Cyberspace.
That's really cute.
But the Bronx, Greenwich, Connecticut, Brooklyn, Boston, Massachusetts, New York City, White Plains.
I don't know how to pronounce that.
Louisville, Kentucky, the East Village, Oakdale, New Haven, Connecticut.
I'm whistling into a payphone in Jersey, okay?
Bellport, New York.
Brooklyn, New York.
The West Coast.
Brooklyn again.
Washington Heights.
Oakdale again.
Don't repeat yourselves, folks.
Canarsie.
Columbus Avenue.
Westchester.
Tarrytown.
Oakdale again.
This person keeps saying Oakdale.
I'm not going to say it anymore.
Old City, Philadelphia.
Paramus, New Jersey.
Blahville.
Williamsburg.
The middle of Long Island Sound.
Okay, I think we pretty much got a fair sampling there as far as where everybody is calling from.
So, here we are on the net.
And what I'm going to do is ask people here, is there a message you would like to pass along to WBAI listeners?
Okay, we're going to see what people have to say to the folks listening on the radio.
Kill Rebel.
Well, I don't know.
Tell Excalibur that he should connect to IRC.
Well, that's kind of a personal message there, isn't it?
Yeah.
Send your money next week.
Very good.
Very good.
Yes, that's what we want people to do.
Tell them to get on the net.
Another very good suggestion.
Say no to Clipper.
Yes.
No commercial advertising.
That's right.
You'll never hear that here.
Okay.
Say no to Clipper.
Say yes to Hillary.
Vote for Howard Stern.
Kill Rebel again.
Say no to Clipper.
Dump Clipper.
Get a T1 to BAI already.
We're working on it.
Say hi to Fiber.
Absolutely.
And hi to Amitech.
Overthrow 9x.
Anarchy.
And that's pretty much what the sampling is right there.
Okay.
Now, since we are starting to run low on time, it's time to get into a bit of what we are here for.
And that is the special announcement we have to make.
Now, as far as various things that have happened in the hacker world, we've brought you various things in the past.
Indictments, trials, prison terms, things like that.
We've also brought you happier occasions from foreign lands, such as the Galactic Hacker Party and Hackers at the End of the Universe and various things like that.
But, you know, the happy times have never really come to us here in this particular town.
That's going to change.
This summer, there's going to be a, I guess you'd call it a celebration of the hacker world.
It will be the 10th anniversary of 2600 Magazine and a coming together of minds from both the United States and various countries in Europe, Asia, all over the world.
And we're going to have the very first, very first American hacker conference of this sort.
There are many hacker conferences such as SummerCon, HoHoCon, DEFCON, various things like that.
But this is going to be different.
This is going to be something right smack in the middle of New York City.
And we will have a network set up similar to what we have here.
We're going to have speakers coming in from all around, speaking on various topics.
And it will be taking place August 13th and 14th.
We're calling it Hackers on Planet Earth.
And we sure hope it works out.
So we'll give you more information on that as it comes in.
Right now, we have a date.
We have a location.
As in New York City, we will have the final details next week at this time.
We'll be giving people further details.
So spread the word.
Hackers on Planet Earth coming to New York City August 13th and 14th this year.
It's going to be one of the most unusual events ever.
I can guarantee that.
Okay, that's something.
You know, we didn't tell the people on the net that.
Do you want to just tell the people on the net?
Someone who can sort of translate what I just said.
And then we'll go back to the telephones.
In case those of you that might be tuning in for the first time didn't hear what happened at Hackers at the End of the Universe, Galactic Hacker Party,
basically those both took place in Holland, a country that is not quite as paranoid as we are here in this country,
concerning playing around with the net, playing around with hacking and various other healthy things that go on.
People experiment, and they learn, and they share information.
We're going to try to bring that back here.
We're going to try and have people come in and talk in an open fashion and play with machines
and hopefully wake up a lot of people, hopefully bring a lot of new people on the net as well.
Don't think this is something that is limited to hackers.
If you're not a hacker, we want to see you there too, because that's something that we think you'll find an interest in.
And if you're interested in this program, you'll be interested in the HOPE Conference,
which is what Hackers on Planet Earth stands for, after all, H-O-P-E.
It's 1048, and we've told the people on the net.
Is there a reaction from the people on the net?
I guess they're all kind of in shock right now.
We don't have another frozen thing, do we?
No.
Okay.
We'll wait for a reaction on the net, then we'll go back to the telephones.
Net splits.
Yeah, net splits are bad news.
We'll try to change it to a different server, do you think so?
Oh, you think we split?
I don't know.
It might be on the way of splitting.
Okay, well, even nobody is talking all of a sudden, though.
We have what's known as a net split.
That's where one part of the net goes one way, one part of the net goes another way.
So we're going to try and get on, get back connected.
Okay, doesn't like our nickname.
Okay, there we are.
We're back.
Okay, we have about, how many people are on there?
Looks like about 30 people or so.
Okay.
We are back online.
In case you're calling in or have access to the net, call us on the, on internet.
28 people online right now.
IRC channel WBAI.
Yeah, we had a net split.
It's official now.
And we're going to go back to the telephones.
And hopefully we, no, we can't do this every day.
People on the net are asking if we can do this every day.
Hopefully one day we'll be able to.
And already people are speaking about the HOPE conference now.
I can't wait until HOPE.
I'll bring the beer.
Great.
Fine.
No problem.
Truly multimedia.
Yeah.
Okay, we're going to disconnect.
How do we disconnect gracefully?
Is there any way?
Yep.
Okay.
Okay.
We hung up the phone.
Great.
That's the best way to do it.
Let's go back to the telephones now.
Good evening.
You're on the radio.
Ah, hello.
How are you?
Hi.
Oh, jeez.
I've got to get these headphones on.
I wanted to know if you had some information.
You mentioned the Risks Digest earlier.
Um, now that, is that available only on the internet, um, or is, in other words, is there
a, uh, a mailing list to access?
Uh, there is a mailing list.
I don't know if they, uh, I'm not really sure if you can have things mailed to you from
there.
Um, the Usenet address is comp.risks.
And I'm looking right now.
I have a printout from it, but I don't think I have the part of the printout that gives
the actual address.
You know, I'll try to get that for next week.
Okay.
I'll tell people how they can, uh, they can get the information.
It's too bad that we can't do interactive yet.
Yeah.
We're going to, we're going to devote a lot of time to this because we want to get BAI
onto the net.
We want to get, um, people access so that you can ask us a question.
We can type something on the keyboard and get an answer for you.
For instance, one thing that I like to show people whenever they, um, they see the net
for the first time, I say, pick a subject, any subject whatsoever.
And let's see if there's a news group that discusses it.
And usually no matter how vague the subject is, there's somebody on the planet that has a
news group devoted to it and you can exchange messages and, and ask questions about
it.
Hmm.
So, uh, that's something to keep in mind and, uh, something that we'll try and share with
as many people as possible.
Okay.
Yeah.
I would like to get on, you know, if there's, uh, some low cost, I live in, uh, Northern
New Jersey, uh, personal computer show mentioned, uh, uh, provider named Mordor.
Do you know anything about them?
Don't know them.
No, I've never heard that name before.
They're supposed to be in, in, uh, Northern New Jersey.
I've heard of Echo, but, uh, I've got, uh, MCI mail and a couple other things that I can
receive, uh, mailing lists.
Yeah.
It's not really like being on the net though.
Yeah.
Probably what I suggest for people that don't have, that can't find a service in their area,
go to your local college, take a course.
It's worth the price of admission, price of admission of, uh, that's, uh, makes it sound
like a, uh, a carnival or something like that.
Tuition.
Yeah, tuition is, is, is, is the word, but, uh, some colleges you never know these days.
That's right.
And through that, most colleges, check first, uh, most colleges offer internet access, uh,
for any student.
And then once you have internet access, you can either use their particular computer rooms
or you can call in and use your home computer.
Yeah, good idea.
All right.
And, and there's no per hour charges for that.
Mm-hmm.
And, and you can get an education too.
Yeah, exactly.
Okay.
Thanks a lot.
Thanks for calling.
Thanks for calling.
Uh, and, uh, NYU, Columbia University, those are two major universities here in town that,
uh, you can certainly enroll in.
Of course, they're both probably very expensive, but hey, take a gym class or something.
I don't know.
There's got, there's got to be a way to, uh, to do this.
Um, we're, we're open to all suggestions.
We're trying to make it as cheap and as easy as possible for everybody because the net is
really an incredible place to be.
Good evening.
You're on the radio.
Uh, yes.
How's it going?
The radio is an incredible place to be too, you know.
Uh, tell me about it.
Yeah.
So what's on your mind?
Uh, well, actually.
I have a quick question.
Uh, one is that this.
I've just recently watched the, uh, the movie, um, uh, um, Sneakers.
Uh-huh.
And I want to know, is it really possible that you can tap into a satellite network and actually
bounce telephone numbers off of it?
Uh, you can bounce telephone numbers off satellites.
It's been done many times, but, uh, not the way they did it.
They did it in a Hollywood way, you know, especially when they were being traced by the NSA.
Right.
The, the part where you can figure out how far you've been traced.
I, I could never quite understand what, what kind of technology they used to figure out
that they were being traced so far and that they were about to be traced in full.
It was, it was very graphic.
It was very pretty, but realistic now.
No, it's not possible.
And Max, who am I speaking to?
Uh, Emanuel Goldstein.
Oh, how's it going?
How are you?
I'm on Channel 7, uh, Monday night, 1130.
Oh, yeah, Nightline.
That was, that was an experience.
I don't know if anybody saw me on Nightline.
That was, that was fun.
That was pretty good.
What, you know, I'm glad you brought this up because I can explain what Nightline is
like to everybody because I, I imagine most of our listeners probably haven't been on
Nightline.
And I bet a lot of people won't ever be on Nightline, so, uh, you can sort of experience
it through me.
So, I'll describe that to the folks.
Thanks for the call.
Yeah, take care.
All right.
Basically, what they do is they bring you into a studio and, you know, you walk through
right where Peter Jennings and everybody sit and, and, and the World News Now people, the,
the big ABC New York newsroom.
You walk past all that.
There's all this clamor and commotion going on there.
And they take you into this little closet type of room with all these patch bays and,
and machines and, and monitors and things like that.
They sit you down in a chair and they tell you to look straight ahead at a, at a, at a dark
camera.
You can't see anything.
There's no real, uh, uh, face that you're staring into.
You can see the monitor for a little while.
You know, you can see yourself being bounced over to Washington, D.C.
You can see, uh, the other people that you're going to be talking to, but you don't actually
see them when you're talking to them.
You only hear them, which can be kind of confusing sometimes.
But when you do see yourself, it's kind of interesting because you're bouncing off a satellite.
You're going down there to Washington, D.C. and you're coming back.
So I first noticed this when I was looking at the monitor and I, I, I blinked and I saw
myself blink.
I've never seen that before.
You, you, you blink and then you open your eyes and there you are blinking.
And if you raise your hand, it's even more weird because you see yourself raising your
hand after you've put your hand down and you start feeling kind of dizzy.
And after a while they told me to stop blinking and raising my arm so much and we got on with
the show and that was, um, was fun because, uh, you're staring into this, this, this blank
monitor and you realize that's the face of America right there.
You're staring into it and you're talking to millions of people and you don't see anything
back.
You don't even see the people you're talking to.
You just hear them in a headphone and that's how, how Nightline goes.
And you know, Nightline is not live.
It, uh, it's taped in the afternoon, like around five 30 or six or so.
So, and then they, uh, they basically play the tape part and they give you two, five and
a half minute, um, um, debate periods, which go really, really fast.
That's, uh, I think how it works every night, but that's how it worked that particular time.
It was over before I knew it.
That's how quick it was.
And it was also interesting because I saw the replay on world news now.
And for some reason they, they edited things in a strange way so that, um, they introduced,
um, um, Harvey Silverglade, the, uh, attorney for David LaMacchia.
Uh, they introduced, uh, Jim Settle, the former FBI agent, and then they introduced me.
But on the replay, they, they sort of shuffled that around.
They introduced me second.
I couldn't understand why they did that, but somebody made an editorial decision that they
wanted to introduce me second instead of third.
So that's, uh, those are all the observations I can remember off the top of my head from
that particular program, which was a very strange and surreal experience.
It's, all right, speaking of strange, surreal experiences, let's, uh, cram as much as we
can into the remaining minute or two.
Good evening.
You're on the radio.
Hi, Emmanuel.
How are you?
Turn my radio down.
Uh, the person that, uh, wanted the number to Morda in New Jersey, I have two numbers for
you.
Okay, go ahead.
Okay, the first one is, uh, area code 201-432-0060.
That's Morda, or whatever he called it.
There's also one in Bergen County called ECWAV, ECWAV.
Edward's probably going to kill me for this, and it stands for Electric Chair with a View.
Uh-huh.
That's a great name.
They're located in Rochelle Park.
Um, I can give you the SISOP's voice number.
Well, I don't know.
Does he want that?
I don't know.
It came in the letter, and I've seen him advertising it on the boards and stuff.
Um, I don't know.
Is that the only number you have for the system?
That's the only number I have for the system.
Anybody that wants to join gets sent, like, this, uh, ECWAV terms and agreement thing,
and it has his voice number on it.
Um.
Well, do what you feel is prudent, but, uh.
Okay, well, I guess anybody in New Jersey that would want it, uh, it's 201-845-8313,
and since he's in Bergen County, let's use a little brevity and call him during, uh, normal
hours, normal human hours, not normal hacker hours where we call people at four o'clock
in the morning.
Yeah, yeah.
Most people don't appreciate that.
All right.
Thanks for the information.
Oh, by the way, uh, on your Nightline thing, uh, nice video delay there, huh?
Yeah.
Take a nice blink there, and you watch yourself blink, and you're like, huh?
Uh-huh.
I know.
I have my daddy historic for a TV station.
It's, uh, it's fun, especially when you're trying to talk at the same time as somebody
else and they're not aware of it.
Oh, it's great, I'll tell you.
It's an experience.
Yeah.
I call it the Koppel effect.
The Koppel effect?
Yeah, it's kind of like the Doppler effect, but a little different.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, he brought it home to many of us.
That's pretty good.
Now, if only I can just get a, uh, decent, uh, phone system in there.
Well, hopefully the marathon will help us with that.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna push for it myself.
Uh, no, no, you should do to get on the net?
What's that?
It's a really good idea.
Use a cellular phone?
No, no, no, no, no.
Take over Echo.
Well, that's, uh, that's, uh, that's one solution.
I guess that's one idea.
Thanks for the call, though.
We're gonna go on to one more phone call.
Hopefully we can squeeze this one in.
Good evening.
You're on.
What?
I said you're on.
Oh, hello.
Yes.
Um, I got a couple questions for you.
Okay, make it fast.
We have about 15 seconds.
I was, like, redboxing.
Uh-huh.
And, um...
Redboxing, okay.
At least be able to do it locally.
Uh-huh.
Find the area code first for you as a long-distance call.
Uh-huh.
And then, like, all of a sudden, it stopped working.
Uh-huh.
It wouldn't let us post pay.
Uh-huh.
They can root it through 411.
Uh-huh.
And then they ask, like, if you want to connect, and you do it that way.
Uh-huh.
It'll allow you to do it.
But my friend said, say, do, like, a ground test.
They'll get an amalia.
Is that, like, so?
Well, you know, I don't really know the answer to that one because my Redbox days are long
in the past, but it's quite likely that it was working through the information service.
That's where you pay an extra $0.30 or $0.35 for the privilege of being connected right
away.
You're saying that doesn't work anymore?
Well, it works, but then my friend said that he had a friend who got nailed doing it that
way.
They did a ground test.
I've never heard of anybody being nailed for doing Redboxing, but, of course, it's certainly
possible because you are putting fake quarters in the payphone.
Um, it's, uh, you know, it's open to speculation and rumor.
The way most Redboxing, uh, problems, uh, come about is through individual payphones.
One payphone is, uh, is, is more selective than another because it's been, it's been modified
in a particular way and the other payphone has not been.
But that's really about as technical as I can get at the moment because we are completely
out of time.
Thanks for the call.
Anybody that, uh, hasn't heard about it, uh, come to the 2600 meeting this, uh, Friday
between 5 and 8 p.m. at the City Core Center down in the lobby by the payphones.
And remember, Hackers on Planet Earth this summer, August 13th and 14th in New York City.
There'll be a lot of strange people showing up from all around the planet.
And that's our show for tonight.
Stay tuned for the WBAI evening news.
This is Emanuel Goldstein for Off The Hook.
See you next week.
10 to 12, a special two-hour show next week for a marathon.
Hope to see you then.
Take care.
Now I can't make a call.
It couldn't get much worse.
But if they could, they would.
Bum-dilly-bump, but the best expect the worst.
I hope that's understood.
Bum-dilly-bump!
Good evening.
In the news tonight, the process for Palestinian self-rule is underway, but it promises to be lengthy.
Clinton's foreign policy speech gets high marks for style, but falls short on substance.
And seven decades later, the black survivors of the Rosewood Massacre are finally compensated.
For these and other stories, I'm David Sears in New York with Verna Avery Brown in Washington.
And this is the news for Wednesday, May 4th, 1994.
First to Washington for these stories topping the news.
In Egypt, the agreement on Palestinian self-rule in the West Bank and Gaza Strip has been signed.
Dale Gavlak has details from Cairo.
Negotiators were under a lot of pressure to conclude the agreement by today, and it showed during the signing ceremony.
Some tense discussions on stage after PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat refused to sign the appendices provided high drama.
Following a short recess to resolve difficulties, Arafat finally signed the appendix containing maps of the autonomous region.
But not before he wrote an explanation stating his reservations about the limited size of Jericho.
This issue and the total number of Palestinian prisoners to be released have been put off in order to meet the signing deadline.
The public disagreement illustrated the mistrust and fear that both sides must overcome.
Arafat called the deal the peace of the courageous, saying that the next steps will require even more courage.
Rabin also acknowledged that peaceful coexistence would be hard work.
It's a very daring project.
And we are committed by the signature today to make sure that it will work.
Some of the agreement conditions are already starting.
Israel has released hundreds of Palestinian prisoners, and the first contingent of Palestinian police officers have arrived in the Gaza Strip.
For Pacifica Network News, this is Dale Gavlak reporting from Cairo, Egypt.
Randall Robinson, head of TransAfrica, has been hospitalized on this, the 23rd day of his fast.
The African-American activist was suffering from excessive dehydration and had an extremely high pulse rate and low protein level.
Robinson's been taking only fruit juice in an effort to persuade President Clinton to drop the policy of forcibly repatriating Haitian refugees.
On Capitol Hill, another voice reinforcing Robinson's stand on Haiti, the chair of the Congressional Black Caucus, Kweisi Infume, says now is the time for the U.S. to change.
President Clinton has the power to impose by executive order a complete trade embargo and commercial embargo and to end our discriminatory Haitian refugee policy.
The Congressional Black Caucus believes that this is a moral imperative.
While Haitian men and women and children are being bludgeoned and hacked to death by operatives of the current military regime,
we then cannot play games of international brinksmanship.
We must act immediately and resolutely as a nation.
The Democrat from Maryland says U.S. military action should remain an option, but will leave it up to Clinton as to whether that action should be taken.
There's still no final result in South Africa's elections.
The commission overseeing the elections has blamed disputes over irregularities and tampering with its computers for the delay.
James Lorimer reports from Johannesburg.
It's more than four days since counting began and still only half the results have been released.
That's been enough for President F.W. de Kloch to concede the election to the African National Congress and for the ANC's Nelson Mandela to claim victory.
But the unreleased results will determine who rules the province of KwaZulu and Natal and whether or not the ANC gets a two-thirds national majority.
That would give it the chance to rewrite the Constitution without interference from other parties.
The Electoral Commission has now admitted, after first having denied it, that its results computer system was tampered with, but it says that only caused minor discrepancies.
It says it's having to rely on manual tallies, which is one reason for the delay in announcing results.
Another reason is arguments over irregularities.
Both the ANC and Encarta are accusing the other of massive electoral fraud in Natal province, where Encarta seems on course to win.
For Pacifica Network News, I'm James Lorimer in Johannesburg.
And those are the stories topping the news.
It was a little shaky at one point, but today the Israelis and Palestinians signed an accord in Cairo
that begins the process for Israeli withdrawal from Gaza and Jericho.
During the ceremony, PLO Chair Yasser Arafat walked out in a dispute over the drawing of a map of the town of Jericho,
but he returned shortly, having agreed to negotiate the dispute at a later time.
Under the agreement, Palestinians will manage most of their internal affairs,
while Israel will still control the borders and their so-called national security.
Palestinians and Israelis are describing today's event as a step forward,
yet critics argue that Arafat has sold the Palestinians down the river.
Pacifica's Mark Beavish reports.
Today's agreement comes almost a month later than it was supposed to.
Since December, the two sides have been haggling over security issues
in an attempt to meet the broad outline signed at the White House last September.
And it appeared as if it was all going to fall apart again,
when, during the ceremony in Cairo, PLO Chair Yasser Arafat refused to sign a map attached to the 200-page agreement.
It was a map of the West Bank town of Jericho, which is part of the territory Palestinians will take control of.
Jim Zogby with the Arab America Institute is part of a White House delegation attending this signing ceremony.
He reports the ordeal with Arafat was not quite as serious as it appeared.
Despite the public appearance of a glitch, it really was, as both Prime Minister Rabin and Chairman Arafat have said, a minor glitch.
It was the result of the fact that the sides negotiated until 3 o'clock in the morning
and didn't have a chance to present all the details of the completed negotiations to both Rabin and Arafat
so that there were some papers juggled and a confusion resulted, which was resolved as soon as they walked off stage.
In any case, the two sides signed an agreement that begins for the first time since 1967
the withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza and Jericho.
The accord calls for negotiations in two years on settlement of the rest of the occupied territories.
It gives Palestinians the right to make laws, collect taxes, and basically take care of administrative functions.
But a joint committee with Israelis has to approve the laws.
And while Israel has pledged to pull its troops out within three weeks,
Israeli forces can re-enter the Palestinian territory if they feel Jewish settlers are threatened.
Israeli troops also control the bridge from Jericho into Jordan and the border between Gaza and Egypt.
Jim Zogby believes the accord is not perfect, but possible.
I mean, obviously, those of us who've struggled in this cause for 20 years
would have liked to have seen Israel pull out and declare an independent Palestinian state, right?
Just full, square stop.
But that was not possible.
That was not possible because there is no constituency in Israel that would have allowed Rabin to have done that.
That is a tragic fact of life in this instance.
And so what we deal with is the politics of what's possible.
What's possible is that we've taken the first step towards independence,
towards Israeli withdrawal, towards building Palestinian institutions,
towards building Palestinian sovereignty,
and ultimately towards building a Palestinian state.
That is the end of this process.
There's no question in my mind.
There may be no questions in Zogby's mind,
but they abound in the mind of University of Massachusetts political science professor Nasir Arouri.
Arouri is also an independent member of the Palestine National Council.
While some law-making authority was conceded to the Palestinians,
the Palestinians received such authority only in six areas.
And in fact, the Israelis made it very clear that they were not allowing the Palestinians
to establish a legislature as such, because legislatures usually enact laws.
And they made it very clear that they were establishing a council
that has the right to make laws within constraints.
Arouri says all this agreement does is turn Palestinians into administrators of Israeli laws.
He cites as example the passport.
The document will say passport on it, but it will also say laissez-passer,
the French term for let pass.
I suppose someone with a broad imagination would say this is a passport.
But in fact, it is not a passport.
It's a laissez-passer, which is a document issued to stateless people.
And the Palestinians have been traveling on such laissez-passers issued by Jordan,
issued by Egypt, and since the occupation issued by Israel.
So now these laissez-passers will be issued by the Palestinian Authority.
But it is not really a passport.
He adds the Israelis were certain not to give the Palestinians anything
that could be construed as a symbol of sovereignty.
Berta Silversmith, with the peace group called The Other Israel,
believes the importance of today is that Palestinians in all of the occupied territories
will see what is possible.
It will be very clear that it can't be frozen exactly as it is now.
The people in Hebron, in Ramallah, who are not part of this plan,
they will absolutely become, they will increase the intifada.
If this, what now today the people in Jericho and Gaza got,
if they would not get it, it cannot stand still on this moment.
And that's our hope, and that's why we are happy that at least this is what it is.
Mark Beavis, Pacifica Network News, Washington.
President Bill Clinton went before the world last night to defend American foreign policy.
He appeared on CNN in a familiar talk show format that he has always found comfortable,
and the performance was polished.
But it left the critics dissatisfied.
Pacifica's Don Rush has this report.
He's done his best, was the line that seems to echo most from Bill Clinton.