Thank you.
And what is Governor Cuomo's name?
Call Governor Cuomo's office at 212-417-2100 and voice your concerns over the elimination
of conductors from subway trains and the closing of selected tollbooths.
That number one more time, 212-417-2100.
This is a public service announcement of WBAI on behalf of New Directions.
It's 10 o'clock.
AT&T.
Easy read service.
Your call will be forwarded to Marisot Atlantic West.
You will be charged international longest.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving.
Now I can't make a call.
It couldn't get much worse.
But if they could, they would.
Bum, diddly, bum, but the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood.
Bum, diddly, bum.
Incidentally, if we had let that call go through, it would have been probably the most expensive
call ever billed to any number around here.
That was the InMarsat system that we called up a couple of weeks ago.
Charged you something like $10 for the first five seconds, and then about $1 a second after that.
Wow.
Great way to get back at your enemies.
And if you call our 0700 number, which is a service of AT&T, Easy Reach, Easy Reach service,
where you can now forward overseas, including forwarding to InMarsat,
all you have to do is hit two pounds after you dial the 0700-751-2600 number,
which used to go to the 2600 voicemail system.
Hit two pounds, and boy, you've bought yourself a lot of trouble.
So that's something to the AT&T people might want to consider a little bit.
We have a fun show for you tonight.
We'll be taking a lot of phone calls and doing all kinds of other things,
including a demonstration, another demonstration from 9X as to just how stupid and inept you can possibly be.
Last night when I told you I was scared about the way things are,
You didn't understand a way, but you said you did.
Now I'm not the honest Joe I might seem.
I can't take your lies.
It's late, I'm tired of the dust.
Crackle along the wild.
You've got a problem, baby.
It's all over now.
You thought you had it made.
It's over, it's over, it's over.
Missing words, missing words, it's just.
Missing words.
It just don't work.
Calling 9X.
If you're calling from a touch-tone phone, press 1 now.
To help us direct your call, listen to the instructions and respond by pressing the buttons on your telephone.
If you are calling about your bill, press 1.
If you are calling about your long-distance calls, press 2.
If you are calling about a repair problem, press 3.
If you are calling to place an order, press 4.
If you are calling for any other reason, you can reach a 9X service representative by pressing 0.
If you want to hear these choices again, press the star button.
To find out how much you owe or to report a payment or make payment arrangements, press 1.
To ask questions about your long-distance calls, press 2.
To speak with the 9X billing department, press 3.
If you are calling for any other reason, you can reach a 9X service representative by pressing 0.
If you want to hear these choices again, press the star button.
If you...
Thank you.
Now the 9X account information line will help you.
Next phone bill handy.
To repeat a message, press the star key on your phone.
If you need help, press 0, and your call will be transferred to a service representative.
Please enter your area code and telephone number.
Please hold while we check your account.
For billing and payment information, press 1.
To place a service order, press 2.
For the amount you owe and the last amount billed, press 1.
To report a payment, press 2.
To make payment arrangements, press 3.
To verify your last payment, press 4.
To enter another telephone number, press 5.
If you do not want any of these choices, press 9.
Please enter your three-digit customer code from your 9X phone bill.
We're going to enter the wrong code.
Code is the three numbers that immediately follow your phone number.
Please hold while we check your account.
You cannot locate the account for the numbers you entered.
To re-enter your account, press 1.
To end this call, press 7.
Please enter your area code and telephone number.
This time, we're going to get it right.
As of yesterday, you owe $80.45.
The last amount billed on July 22nd is $80.45.
Thank you for calling the 9X account information line.
For other choices, press 1.
To end this call, press 7.
For billing information, press 1.
To place a service order, press 2.
If you have another telephone number you want to enter, press 3.
To temporarily suspend your service, press 1.
For suspended service, press 2.
To disconnect your service, press 3.
To enter another telephone number, press 4.
For other choices, press 1.
Place a service order, press 2.
If you have another telephone number you want to enter, press 3.
Well, I think we've demonstrated the stupid part of this.
The stupid part being that all you need is somebody's phone number
and the three digits following their phone number on their bill.
And you can simply disconnect their service, temporarily suspend their service,
restore their service, find out how much they owe, make payment arrangements,
verify payment arrangements, and all kinds of fun things like that.
There's no end to what you can do.
Now, the three digits following your phone number are readily available.
People throw that away all the time.
It's not the same thing as your PIN on a calling card number.
That's four digits, and that's something that should be secretly guarded.
But these three digits are something that are very, very easy to get.
In fact, you can even call the phone company and convince them to give it to you
if you don't quite understand how the system works, which a lot of us don't.
Now, you can call 890-1100, and they will transfer you to this system.
They won't do it now.
Let's show you what happens if you call now.
Dial tone, please.
Okay.
You'll get the same lady at the beginning.
Thank you for calling 9X.
If you are calling from a touch-tone phone, press 1 now.
To help us direct your call, listen to the instructions
and respond by pressing the buttons on your telephone.
If you are calling about your bill, press 1.
If you are calling about your bill,
to find out how much you owe or to report a payment or make payment arrangements, press 1.
We're sorry.
The 9X account information line is not available at this time.
Please call Monday through Friday, 8 a.m. and 8 p.m.
or Saturdays between 8 a.m. and 4 p.m.
Thank you for calling 9X.
Oh, yeah.
Well, I guess they couldn't get her to come in and say those numbers.
I don't know.
But, yeah, it's a real trip to call that.
And to hear information about yourself over the phone.
But I guess they don't trust the system enough to leave it up at night where we can get at it.
But certainly during the daytime, you can experiment to your heart's content.
And remember, there's only 1,000 possibilities.
So, I mean, you do 10 a day and that's, what, 100 days you'll have somebody's magical three-digit number.
And then you can do all kinds of neat things to their phone number.
Unless, of course, they keep track of this kind of thing and maybe do something about it.
We'll just have to see.
Wow.
That's some of the fun that's been going on with 9X.
They've actually had that system for a while.
But this week they integrated it with their main 890 number, which is what you call when you want to yell at them about something.
By the way, notice how long it took them to tell us that they were closed.
We had to hit touch tones four different times.
And during the day, it's not really much better.
You want to speak to a customer service representative.
And if you hit all these buttons to get there, and eventually you just get a busy signal after all that.
Yeah, it's actually quicker to stay on the line and not say anything.
And then they assume you have a rotary phone and everybody's happy.
Or as happy as you can possibly be.
We have an article about Hope this week in New York Magazine.
I don't know how many of you have seen that yet.
That just came out.
It's called Paranoid Chipheads at Convention.com.
To clarify, that's Paranoid Chipheads, C-H-I-P-H-E-A-D-S.
In case you thought I said something else.
At Convention.com.
And that's in this week's New York Magazine.
And it goes something like this.
Madcap.
His hacker name slash long blonde hair, purple and green felt cat in the hat floppy hat,
stares at his photo ID in disgust.
They screwed up the pictorial image, man.
Stormshadow looks over.
There are no coincidences in the universe, man.
And then we get into the little digital cyberspace part of the article here in brackets.
8.13.94 Hackers on Planet Earth Conference.
1,500 participants sponsored by 2600.
The Hacker Magazine, Hotel Pennsylvania, Manhattan.
Yeah.
Soldering iron in hand.
Malice.
Black ponytail slash multiple earrings slash integrated circuit.
Apparently surgically implanted into the side of his shaven head.
Begins to assemble a red box, a.k.a.
Standard toll fraud device, a.k.a.
Quarter Tone Simulator.
This demonstration is strictly for educational purposes, he says, grinning.
The keynote speaker Robert Steele, Virginia slash cutoff gene slash olive drab mal cap, claims
to be a former Fed CIA.
He says that by illegally breaking into supposedly secure government computers, hackers are assets
to the community.
They are the guys who tell us the emperor is naked.
There's this weird symbiosis between the hackers and the feds, says Evil Ernie, bracket Canadian
slash plaid cotton high tops.
We have a strange sort of respect for each other.
Brackets.
Symposium.
Hacking the MetroCard.
A man wearing a red balaclava that completely covers his face.
I don't think I've ever said that word before.
Or identifies himself as a railroad clerk for the transit authority.
The public would call me a token clerk.
All internal documentation states this card is a magnetic stripe card.
This could be disinformation, but I don't think so.
Heads nod authoritatively.
The preoccupying question is whether when one swipes a MetroCard through a turnstile, a computer
at a transit authority headquarters, at transit authority headquarters in downtown Brooklyn
is instantly notified, thereby tracking an individual's travel and exact location at any moment in
time.
Red Balaclava doesn't buy the central computer scenario.
After all, he says, the MetroCard is due to be installed on buses, making a central link
very difficult, unless they use an RF, radio frequency system, types up an audience member,
in a you-don't-understand-it's-just-a-geek-thing t-shirt.
A veteran hacker of San Francisco's BART, Bay Area Rapid Transit, suggests that they try
shaking iron filings over the stripe and studying the resultant magnetic field patterns, a.k.a.
domains.
Somebody else recommends a dumpster dive behind T.A. headquarters for additional clues.
When it comes to anything involving the transit authority, Red Balaclava ends ominously.
It pays to be paranoid.
Hackers just always want to go through any door that has a sign on it reading,
do not enter, explains Dr. Gonzo, brackets very large slash sweat pouring off the pulled-down
grim of his spy hat.
Personally, I regard people not putting security on those locked doors as a form of negligence.
Back in the auditorium, the editor of 2600 holds up a MetroCard.
Have you ever had every bit of information on you stored on a single card?
The audience, in AT&T-inspired unison, you will.
Well, it's only one article.
So we've got the New York Times.
We've got the New York Magazine.
I understand there was something on Channel 4 last weekend.
I don't know why it was on last weekend, but that's when they chose to put it on.
Channel 11 had a piece, which wasn't too bad.
Well, I don't know how Americana is going to view the hacker conference,
but articles like this make you think it's some sort of space aliens landing in the middle of Manhattan.
But we all survived, and we're still recovering.
We're still getting things back together.
And tonight we're just going to take some phone calls from people that have general questions
or want to talk about what happened to them at the conference
or what didn't happen, various things like that.
Our number is 212-279-3400.
And it's just about 18 minutes beyond 10 o'clock.
And we're here on Off the Hook until 11 o'clock.
That's enough of that.
Just as we are every Wednesday at this time.
So let's see who's out there.
Good evening. You're on the radio.
I'm the person that was getting an annoyance call every day between 7 and 7.30.
Yes, and you're going to update us as to what happened.
Yeah, well, I called the 9X and got to the right person who said to answer hello and to push dial 6.
Oh, yeah, I know, I know.
They say that.
We'll call with the police.
Now, what does that, when you hit dial 6, what happens?
Okay, basically, when you hit dial 6, all they want you to do is simply make it sound as if you've got some sort of high-tech equipment that you don't have.
I've seen, in fact, I've read that on the radio, that this is the speech that they give people.
And it's totally useless because everybody knows about it.
And it's not really effective.
It's not really doing anything.
Here, I'll tell you what it sounds like, okay?
Listen carefully.
Basically, what you say is you press a button.
Hello, operator, this is the number I want to trace.
Now, does that sound convincing to you?
Operator, check this call with the police is what they told me.
Okay, well, that's the script they gave you.
But it's basically that they're saying don't bother us, take care of this yourself,
and maybe you'll be able to trick them into not calling you anymore.
My ex told me that if it's to try it for a week and if it didn't work, call them back and they tell me the next step to take.
Actually, I've only had three calls since, and that was in 10 days.
Well, do you think it's, have you done this yet?
Have you hit the 6 button?
Times.
I'm sorry?
Three times.
You've said the exact same thing three times?
12th and 22nd.
Uh-huh.
And what happened when you did it?
And they hung up.
Uh-huh.
Well, it might have an effect.
It's possible.
I mean, there are people that still haven't heard about this.
So, yeah, it's possible it could have an effect.
But I think what you want to do is track down the person that's doing this and get them to very, you know.
I think I should call 9X back and say that I'm still getting them and what's the next step?
Are you still getting calls?
Well, I got one on the 22nd, which was, what, Monday?
Uh-huh.
I would say if you get a single call more, call them back.
Yeah.
Okay, one more call and that's it.
You call them back and you say you've tried everything.
Now you want them to put a trap on the line and they will do that.
Yeah.
But you have to be kind of adamant about it.
Yeah.
And then they can tell you who called you.
Actually, they won't tell you, but they will know themselves and then they will take action against that person, hopefully.
Okay.
Very good.
All right.
Good luck.
Thank you.
All right.
Well, that's typical as to what 9X tells people.
It's typical what most phone companies do to get out of the responsibility of having their annoyance call bureau trace annoying calls.
They'd rather you dial star 5-7 and pay them $1.50 every time you do that and not really get anywhere.
But if you look in the front of the phone book, look in the front of your phone book and you will see the number for the annoyance call bureau, how to deal with these calls.
That is how you do it from the start if you're getting a problem like that.
Whew.
Unbelievable.
I wonder why they picked the 6, you know?
Does the 6 sound any more ominous than any other number?
I mean, there must be something about the 6.
Any thoughts on that?
I don't know.
It sounds kind of...
I would go for the pound sign myself.
But then you can tell that's a pound sign.
A 1 doesn't work.
That's too mellow sounding.
Operator trace not.
It doesn't work.
6?
Okay.
I guess 6 is right in the middle.
Yeah.
He got 5 before it and he got 6 after it.
So it would either be 6 or 7.
And 7 is definitely too low.
So yeah.
I guess 6 is the right number to scare people with.
I'm glad we figured that out.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Good evening.
It's not 6.
It's 6, 9 together.
No, no, no, no, no.
You're thinking it's star 6, 9.
No, it's not star 6, 9.
Here, listen.
I'll demonstrate it.
If you push 6 and 9 together...
6 and 9 together.
Okay.
A totally different tone.
Listen.
Let's hear it.
Ah.
Yeah, so that's true.
That's what the phone company tells you to do.
Well, you know, that's not a good thing to do.
You know why?
Because a lot of new phones, if you hit 6 and 9 together, you'll either get absolutely
nothing or you'll get just one tone.
Well, it's an old ploy from a lot of years ago that I guess they invented for whatever
their reason was.
Right, and that's what 9X specializes in, is old ploys from years ago.
But now that we have Star 5.7 and things to that effect, it makes life, you know, a little
bit easier.
Because I don't know if you've ever seen or heard, but, you know, it goes through six,
seven months of paperwork to get, like, a trap put on your phone if you have pranks.
Actually, that's not true.
It depends how adamant you are.
I've done it once, and I got it done within a week and a half.
Right, really.
Well, it always took me a lot longer, but the main reason that I called was, maybe you
could tell me about the new switching system that they have with all these new features.
A few weeks ago, you said something about Star 6.7.
Uh-huh.
Now, did I charge you for that service?
Star 6.7 is caller ID blocking.
Is that what you're referring to?
Um, no, I believe, I believe you said something that if you hit Star 6.7 prior to making a
call, yeah, a person you were calling could not Star 6.9 you.
Uh, well, no, that's not entirely true.
They can Star 6.9 you, but if you hit Star 6.7, assuming you haven't already selected blocking
as your, as your permanent option, uh, then they can Star 6.9 you, but if they get a local
itemization, they won't see your number.
They'll see your exchange, but they won't see the full four digits of, of the end part of
it.
Right.
Okay, and, and question number two, um, before they put the new switch on my particular phone
system, I'm in Brooklyn, uh, they, um, my caller, uh, what, my call waiting worked, and
my call, uh, my, um, three-way calling, if I had someone on three-way calling, like per
se, if I had me, you, and, uh.
You were able to get, you were able to get call waiting because you had a 1A, yes, you had
a 1A ESS, and now you can no longer do that, right?
Right, in layman's terms, if I'm on a conference call, the call waiting no longer works.
Right, it used to be, we used to call that four-way because, uh, while you couldn't actually
link it into the, uh, three-way conversation you were having, it was another conversation
that you were able to have at the same time.
That was something very common with, uh, 1ESSs and 1AESSs, which unfortunately they did
not carry over.
I don't know if it was a bug or a feature of that switch.
I don't know.
When I, when they changed the switch and all of a sudden that feature didn't work, I kept
going with the, with the 611, and they kept telling me everything was working fine.
Right.
Well, you know, it's interesting, uh, because there's a couple of things that, that didn't
carry over.
Like, uh, for instance, call forwarding.
I don't know if this, this is probably just a software setting, but it used to be that
you could call forward almost unlimited numbers of calls from one line.
For instance, if you were to forward your, your phone over to here at BAI, 10 people could
call at once because that's how many lines we have here at BAI.
Uh, however, it doesn't matter how many lines you have or how many lines we have, they limited
to one now.
So only one person can forward at the same time.
And as long as they're on the phone, your phone will be busy.
Right, right.
Okay.
And, uh, my last question for the evening, and then I'll let you go on to somebody else.
Um, those units that per se, if you had a six, seven phone lines, let's say coming out
of your house and you hooked it up to like this unit and you would hit a button, let's
say you were calling a radio show.
You wanted to, to win a prize.
You would push the button and the unit would like dial using all seven of those lines to
that one particular number.
And then it would let you know which one got in.
I think they call it a power dialer.
Hmm.
I've never actually seen one of those, but I've heard of similar things.
Okay.
Um, from what you've heard of, what are they and where could I acquire something like that?
Uh, look in, uh, magazines like, uh, popular electronics or, uh, popular communications.
I'm sure they, they have things like that in the back pages.
Um, it sounds like this would just simply, I don't know exactly how it would work, but
it would dial out all at the same time on, um, on, on all of your lines at once, which
I should point out if it's going through to one of those, um, uh, mass, uh, radio nine,
I think it's nine, five, five exchange, which a lot of radio stations use.
Well, that it's not going to work on that because the way nine five, five works, it limits however
many calls from every central office can get through at one time.
So, in your particular area, maybe only two calls would be allowed to go through.
Right.
And that's, that's, it's like a choke.
It, it, it, it basically controls two from this area, two from this area, two from this
area.
So, if you're making seven calls at once, they're not going to go through.
Only two are going to go through.
I used to see a guy on TV, like, you know, they would do a story on him, like, like once
every two, three years, and he had, like, a whole bunch of lines hooked up into this
box.
He would hit the button, let's say, for a particular radio program, and, you know, like
nine out of ten times, he would win with this particular unit.
Well, it's, uh, it certainly improves your chances, but, you know, the best way to get
through on something like that is to find out what the real phone number is, not the, uh,
nine, five, five number, whatever 800 number they happen to be using, and then you
simply hang out on that line and get through before anyone else does.
Right, right.
Okay, last question, sorry.
Um, 2600 Magazine, is that available on cassette tape?
Uh, no.
Um, people, believe it or not, have asked about that before.
This is probably for, for the deaf, right?
No, I'm blind.
I'm sorry, of course.
And, uh, you know, it's like, I'm really into this type of technology, it's just that,
you know, I don't have anybody to read it to me that, you know.
Right.
Well, I'll tell you, if we can get somebody to transcribe it, we'll definitely make that
available.
Uh-huh.
Um, it's a question of how do we do something like that, and, uh,
you know, without, without going broke doing it, obviously.
Uh-huh.
But, uh, sure, you know, we'd like to be able to do that.
All right, thanks for your time.
Okay.
Have a good night, love the show.
All right, take care.
Take care, bye-bye.
212-279-3400.
Yeah, cassette tapes for the deaf.
Boy, I must be on something tonight.
Good evening.
Hello, this is Mr. G.
Um, I want to ask you two questions.
How do you get, is there a time to get the quarter tone, and that's the first question,
and the second question is, how do you get to duplicate another MetroCard?
Well, we haven't yet duplicated another MetroCard.
That's something we're trying to do, and we have a lot of people from the Hope Conference
now that are working on that, and once we have a prototype, once we're able to actually
duplicate the MetroCard, we'll see what happens if two people use it at the same time, at
the same station, or at a different station, and that will tell us authoritatively if it's
deducting the value from the card or if it's accessing a central computer somewhere.
Uh, now, your first question concerned red box tones?
Yes.
I'm not quite sure what it is you need to know.
Um, you said there were quarter tones?
Yeah.
Okay, did they use a different, uh, timer crystal?
Uh, they, um, well, I'm not sure what particular device you're referring to.
Um, there are many different red boxes out there that produce quarter tones, and, uh, I don't
have the specs in front of me, but the most popular probably is the RadioShack, um, 33 number,
uh, redialer thing, where you simply replace the crystal.
Yeah, that, that I'm familiar with, because you just put the 6.5 crystal in.
Right.
But I want to know, is there another crystal besides that?
I mean, like, I know they have a 6.49 to low, I think when they have tolerance, the tolerance
is greater.
You use a 6.49 crystal.
There's all kinds of debate on that going on in the hacker world right now.
Uh, and I've, I've sort of stayed out of it, to be honest, just to see how it turns
out.
But, um, you know, do you have an opportunity to try it?
What, the 6.49?
Yeah.
To see if it works.
That's, that's what it's all about, you know?
It, it works.
Uh-huh.
You've tried it and it works?
Yes.
Okay.
So then what's your question?
Okay.
My question is, if I get one of those little, I think I could do it, if I get a little tape
recorder that the doctors use.
Yeah, a little Dictaphone thing.
That's, and then just tap the quarter tones in, that would probably work.
Tape recorders work fine.
Tape recorders work absolutely.
It's, it's incredible how easy the system is.
And, you know, we were talking about this, uh, with some of the European hackers.
Uh, that system is about to celebrate, I believe it's 25th anniversary.
25 years now, red boxing has been as simple as it is now.
That is, you just simply walk up to any payphone and play five little beeps when it asks for a
quarter and it thinks you've actually put in a quarter.
It's incredibly simple, it's incredibly insecure, and the phone companies don't seem very interested
in, uh, in, in fixing it.
And I, I suspect the reason for that is because they're making such a killing anyway and all
the poor fools that keep putting money into payphones and paying outrageous rates.
For instance, a call anywhere in the country, New Jersey or Hawaii, costs something like
$2.50 for the first minute, daytime or nighttime.
Now, you call from your house, you'll find it's more like 14 cents for the first minute.
So obviously they're making quite a, that's, that's, uh, what, more than 10 times
the amount.
Well, yeah, that's true.
I just hope they don't make any changes.
Uh-huh.
Well, they're bound to eventually.
I, I imagine their, their, their heads are, are together thinking of some way to, uh, you
know, to thwart that system.
But there's always a way around whatever system they come up with.
Okay, that's all I need to know.
Okay, well, good luck.
Okay, bye.
The key is experimentation.
The key is to try something, see what happens, and tell people what happens.
Get more information.
Come up with new ideas, new developments.
And we all progress in one way or another.
It's not just about making free phone calls, you know.
I mean, making free phone calls is fun, but, uh, it's how it all works.
That's what drives us.
Good evening.
You're on the radio.
Hi, um, I just basically wanted to, uh, relate a, uh, story I had, uh, at Hope, uh,
an experience I had, uh, basically, um, there were around 1,500 people at Hope, and, uh,
I was one of the people there, and, uh, you know, I met a lot of, uh, people who I'm
now communicating with on email and so on and so forth.
You know, if there were 1,500 people at Hope, an awful lot of them got in for free.
That's all I have to say.
It's just like, like Woodstock or something.
Well, you know, there was no mud in the hotel.
Well, there should have been.
That was 1+.
Yeah.
But, uh, I was in an airport in Charlotte, North Carolina, um, two days ago.
Uh-huh.
And I was, uh, sitting there trying to figure out how I could hack the, uh, fax machine.
They have those fax machines, you know, for you enter $15 or some outrageous fee, and then
send a fax anywhere.
Uh-huh.
So, uh, while I was playing with this fax machine, someone put a hand on my back, and
I turned around, and they said, I don't believe it.
And I recognized someone from Hope, uh, Sherman, and, uh, we said hello and exchanged some
words, and, uh, it was just really a great experience to realize that some of the people
I had met at the conference, you know, I just bumped into randomly in an airport, and that
there were people interested in what I was doing all over the country and traveling back
and forth.
So, it was, it was a very, uh, good experience, and I wanted to relate that to the other people.
Okay.
Well, thanks for calling.
All right.
Thanks a lot.
212-279-3400.
Good evening.
You're on the radio.
Hello.
How are you doing?
Okay.
Um, I'm calling about Hope.
I know the person who got busted.
Person who got busted.
All right.
You want to tell us what happened?
Um, he was, he was selling cellular phones, and, um, these guys took him down to the basement
of the hotel room, and, um, asked him a bunch of questions, and tried to, um, get people's
names out, like, and he wouldn't give them to them, and, like, they set a court date for
him, but he's doing fine now, but I'm not sure when his court date was.
Uh-huh.
Well, that sounds interesting.
Um, again, we, we're still waiting to find out more details about that.
Uh, what would you like to know?
Uh, well, I guess we need to speak to that person directly to find out, uh, you know,
what specifically they asked, um, how they treated him, when the court date is, that kind
of thing.
Well, I'll be able, um, to tell him to call then.
Okay.
Or email you on internet, or talk to you on IRC, because you're on there a lot.
Yeah, email's probably best.
All right.
Okay.
Talk to you later.
Thanks for calling.
Good evening.
You're on Off the Hook.
Good, uh, evening.
Um, a couple of, uh, points about coin, for, coin calls between, uh, let's say Manhattan
and directly across the Hudson, right?
Um, when I was in Jersey City, um, passing through, oh, about a year ago, uh, on Journal
Square, I used the public, uh, phone there, and I just wanted to see what the rates were.
Well, uh, with the carrier being AT&T, to call from, put in the coins and call from Jersey
City to Manhattan, it was not $2.50.
It was $2.15.
But I took a simple, easy thing that, uh, saved a buck and is widely publicized by, uh, Bell
Atlantic.
Uh, I dial, I then hung up.
I didn't have any particular call to make.
I just dialed a New York number to see how much money it would ask for.
So I then dialed 1-0-N-J-B, as in New Jersey Bell, and continued dialing 1-2-1-2, um, and
seven digits.
And this time, it only asks for $1.15.
Uh-huh.
Now, the first thing you're going to say is, well, hey, great, we're on the, let's say
we're New Yorkers, right?
You're, you come into BAI there, you're out on Long Island, so forth, okay?
Um, we'll use 1-0-6-9-8, as in 1-0-N-Y-T, um, when calling the other way.
Unfortunately, it does not work from 9-X's public telephones.
It's only a one-way savings.
It has, has to be eastbound from New Jersey to New York.
Well, wait, there's one thing I don't understand here.
1-0-1-0-N-J-B is for who?
New Jersey Bell.
Okay, who uses N-J-B?
Who uses 1-0-N-J-B?
Any, any customer of, well, excuse me, it only applies to the, to the five boroughs of
New York City on this side, and you know what the five corridor counties, what that
means in, on the New Jersey side, right?
I sort of do.
Yeah, they're Bergen, Essex, Passaic.
The only one of them that does not border New York City is Passaic.
But the others are Bergen, places like Hackensack and Fort Lee, George Washington Bridge, and
then Hudson, Jersey City, Weehawken, and so forth, Union City, Essex, which is Newark,
Union, which is Elizabeth, and so have I covered all filacy.
Bergen, Essex, Hudson, Union, and Passaic, right.
The other two counties that border New York City aquatically, Middlesex and Monmouth, which
only border Staten Island, both of them, are, in fact, Union also does, are not included.
But anyway, if you're at a non-public phone, you still get full one-minute billing.
You don't get a tenth of a minute, but, you know, at times, I'm trying to think, hasn't
9X at times advertised to you?
No, you never hear them advertise.
It's shown in the front of all 9X white pages.
Yeah, they have not advertised that to the extent that New Jersey Bell has.
Or not nearly as much, right.
I think Bell of Pennsylvania had one, too.
Probably.
It was 1-0-BPA or something.
It's kind of funny, because none of these companies exist anymore.
New Jersey Bell, Bell of Pennsylvania, and New York Telephone.
Hold on, hold on.
First of all, none of those companies, they haven't been actually merged as corporate entities.
Though, to use 9X, which is the only word they show on their letterhead now, is strictly
a DBA, a doing business as name.
In their annual reports of Bell Atlantic and 9X and so forth, they still break it out,
I'm pretty sure, under the old name, New York Telephone Company, New Jersey Bell Telephone
Company, and so forth.
And by the way, two of these companies even have phantom official headquarters.
You remember the big hullabaloo when they closed down 550 Madison?
This is AT&T now.
That's right.
The city had given them huge tax write-offs, right?
Tens of millions of dollars over the years, and so they whined and whined and said, all
right, we'll keep a few people down at 32 6th Avenue, right?
The old Long Lines headquarters.
Well, that's pretty phony.
Their real headquarters is Basking Ridge, New Jersey.
With 9X, officially, they're at 347 Madison Avenue, but their official headquarters is White
Plains, and some articles in the business pages of the newspapers will refer to them as
9X Corporation.
White Plains, New York, today announced this, that, or the other.
By the way, when I lived in Jersey City in the 60s, from a public phone, it was 10 cents
for the first four minutes between Manhattan and New Jersey in either direction, and a
nickel for every additional two minutes.
I remember that very distinctly.
All right.
Well, thanks very much for those memories.
It was 10 cents here not too long ago.
In fact, if you go up to Boston, it's still 10 cents on a pay phone.
Again, thanks for the call.
Let's move on to another call.
Good evening.
You're on the radio.
Yes.
Hello, Emmanuel.
I wanted to talk to you about another utility company that we're going to have problems
with.
It's not only going to be 9X, but it's going to be now our water company.
Our water company?
Oh, no.
It seems as though they installed, instead of coming out to check my water meter every
once in a while, they installed a little black box in my basement that...
It's tied into your phone line.
Right?
I was wondering if you knew anything about that, and it's up.
It checks however many times they feel necessary to check very late at night, and they claim
that if somebody picks up a phone or if a call comes in, it will immediately disconnect.
I'm not quite sure how that works, but that's their way of monitoring your water usage, and
I imagine they can do the same thing with the electric company.
I was wondering if, like, they have all these notices.
I wanted to look inside, but they have all these notices on the outside, do not pamper with
whatever, and I was going to open it, but I was wondering if it would have had...
Would it try to call up the company, or...
Well, it might try and make a help call of some sort.
You know, there are ways of finding out information about that particular device.
You can find out exactly what it's called, look it up, maybe buy one yourself somehow, but
then again, you know, if things were never tampered with, we'd never learn anything, but
I'm not telling you to tamper with it.
Okay?
Okay.
All right.
Thanks a lot.
Okay.
Wait, can I just say one more thing?
Yeah.
I was planning on going on the Hope Conference, but at the last minute I was unable to go.
Some of my friends went, they said it was great, and I was so disappointed that I didn't
go, and I really hope, by the way that how they talked about it, that I could go next
year, and also I would want, if you had any information on those, you were talking about
videotapes.
Yeah, we're currently looking into that, and we'll have all the information as soon
as we work it all out, which should be in about a week or so.
We'll know more.
And one more short message.
I just wanted to say that either Scott or Kevin should call me, because they're friends
from the internet, and I just wanted them to call me.
They listen to the show all the time.
Okay.
Scott or Kevin, call this person.
You know who it is.
Thanks very much.
And everybody in New York City and environments knows to call this person, too.
Good evening.
You're on the radio.
Hello.
This is Dr. Gonzo.
I was quoted in that, well, misquoted, actually, in that New York Magazine article.
Dr. Gonzo.
Let's see what it said about you.
Let's see.
Where are you?
Is it Malice, Robert Steele?
I was the sweaty one with the spy cab.
Oh, you were the big person, right?
Very large, sweat pouring off the pulled-down brim of your spy hat.
Yep.
And you said, hackers just always want to go through any door that has a sign on it reading
do not enter.
Personally, I regard people not putting security on those locked doorways as a form of negligence.
I may have said something like that, but that's not at all what I said.
I spoke to the guy for about a half hour, and basically, I don't count myself as a hacker.
I'm just a guy who likes computers and likes to find things out.
I don't have the technical sophistication of anyone over there, but it doesn't mean I don't
like to find things out.
But, yeah, I was misquoted.
Wow.
Well, that's something.
I know at least a couple of people in this article are writing letters to New York Magazine
about the way they were quoted.
What was the name of the author?
Stephen Fenichel, F-E-N-I-C-H-E-L-L.
I'll have to keep that in mind.
Oh, an update for 10NJB.
I am a location in New Jersey that's not one of those corridor counties.
And I dial 10NJB, then I call on a credit card from my home, so it's pretty safe.
When you dial 10NJB, then the number, you know, your number with the zero, you get a
fat busy, so it doesn't work from Somerset County.
How about that?
Well, not to be expected.
There's one other thing that I forgot what I was going to say.
Oh, of course, I had a great time at the Hope Conference, and I'm acquainted with Pam.
Uh-huh.
So, you know, and God help me.
If you guys need help, I may end up working there next year.
Okay.
Well, thanks for calling.
Thank you.
Everyone's saying next year, you know.
This was our 10th anniversary, so you can't have a 10th anniversary every year.
That's, boy, I can't imagine doing something like this every year, with the amount of drainage
on certain people's physical attributes.
But we'll talk about it in the future.
We'll see when we can do this again.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hi, Emmanuel.
How are you?
Okay.
How are you?
All right.
I've got a lot of information to give you tonight.
Okay.
I'll try to make it as brief as possible.
First off, I remember you speaking about either last week, or I think it was actually in your
2600 magazine, about receiving the 212 and then the 215 on the caller ID.
Was it an internal number?
It was 516215, yes.
Okay.
That's called a planned test number, or a PTN, a planned test number.
And that appears pretty much on like an 800 watts line.
I get that happening all the time.
I'm here in New Jersey.
And this is Jude Kangebind.
I leave messages every once in a while on your machine.
Uh-huh.
Pretty much just have some information about caller ID tonight.
Okay.
It sounds like what you're talking about is A&I, though, if it goes to your 800 number?
Yes.
I'm sorry.
A&I also on my phone.
Yeah.
I had the 800 number with WillTel.
I spoke to you last week about the cellophones and stuff.
Right.
Yeah.
I mean, I received cable and wireless at one point stopped transmitting A&I.
They were having a problem with certain customers didn't want their number to be, you know,
transmitted.
Right.
No, they were having a problem with people finding out about it before they told anybody.
Yeah.
That's what happened.
Now they got it back.
They started it up again.
I had them call me.
They came up private on the caller ID.
And what happened was I guess they automatically blocked their number.
But then they had called me back without blocking it.
And so now they're providing it again.
But to get to what I wanted to say, caller ID, I have caller ID to Bell Atlantic.
And I received a call now from Canada, 519 area code 433 exchange, London, Ontario.
I received a call from.
Wow.
And they called me on the 800 number and that appeared all the way from Canada.
Well, it makes sense because when you have an 800 number, you do get itemization from other
places that call you.
And if Canada is one of those places that would show up, it's not caller ID.
It's being translated into caller ID.
Yeah.
But yeah, that's interesting.
The first international caller ID.
That did happen, yeah.
And I mean, even the local telephone company, when they called me on the 800, they were in
a big Centrix system.
And their exchange is just specifically for the phone company.
And it was 717.
And they were shocked that their number appeared.
Okay.
Okay, this is what you do.
I want you to take this advice, all right?
Okay.
So call up some really highly placed people in various institutions, such as the White
House, such as the Pentagon, such as the NSA.
Okay.
And give them your 800 number.
Now, somebody is going to call you back at some point, especially if you make a pest to
yourself.
Yeah.
And when they do, you'll have their phone number, their secret phone number on their
private line they don't want to give out to anybody.
This is true.
Taste of their own medicine.
Yeah.
This is another real quick thing, Manuel.
I have a will-tell calling card.
I placed a telephone call, a local telephone call.
I'm in the 908 area code 739 exchange.
It's a switching system 1A.
And I had used the will-tell calling card to place a local call in the 908 787 exchange,
which is a DMS 100.
And they received my local, my home telephone number on their caller ID.
It appeared.
Wait.
Were you at your local phone number?
At my home phone.
You were at your home phone, and you used a calling card.
I dialed the 800 number for, the 800 access number, dialed in my PIN, my access number,
and then the phone number was calling.
And it transmitted ANI.
It transmitted my area code number right to, for a local call.
That's interesting.
Yeah.
This is the first calling card.
I've had, I have six or seven different calling cards.
AT&T, MCI Sprint, Will, I'm sorry.
Cable and wireless, one-call communications.
None of them do that.
And this is the only calling card that transmits ANI.
I also used this calling, my friend in London, Ontario, and it was transmitted all the way to Canada.
So that's another thing I wanted to let you know.
That's really something.
Yeah.
By the way, will-tell is about to be bought by, I think, LDDS Communications?
Actually, I used their access code once in a while, 10999.
I've tried, like, 102, 88, you know, AT&T, Sprint, MCI.
They're not transmitting the caller ID information, the caller ID or ANI.
But I found out through my local phone company that by April of 1995, all 50 states are supposed to be compatible with the name and area code and phone number.
That's right.
That's part of the nationwide caller ID mandate.
My caller ID.
April of 1995, I had finally got in contact with the FCC, and someone did call me back, which was rare.
They don't usually call you back.
I gave them a certain code that my local phone company gave me, and they gave me the information about the nationwide caller ID.
They said all local carriers and long-distance carriers, even the independently ones, have to comply with this law that's been passed, that area code number and name.
Now, I don't understand this because certain states don't have caller ID.
They're not set up or whatnot.
And I don't even know when the name will be passed.
So, I mean, now I did my test with the 800 numbers.
I've received all 50 states, including Canada.
So, I mean, it's great.
I'm getting everything on there.
They're doing testing now in New Jersey for the name and also in Virginia.
And, I mean, 9X, I call them up to give me a call.
The number doesn't even come up on the ANI or on a 1-plus call.
I mean, it just doesn't come up.
I don't mean residents.
I mean, when they call you from their area, from their, you know, repair department, order center, anything like that, it comes up out of area.
Really?
Number unknown.
I've gotten numbers from them.
I guess it depends where they call you from.
Yeah, that's true.
They're different offices.
Because I had all of New York came up on the caller ID, including 917, a cellular phone number.
You got a cellular phone number?
Yeah, I had a friend of mine call me from 917.
He was shocked.
He says, oh, you know.
Yeah.
He didn't think that would come up.
But, yeah, I've done all kinds of tests and everything.
Well, it sounds like we're definitely moving towards nationwide 100% caller ID, without any exception.
That's what's happening.
So, I mean, just to let you know, the name should be here by April of 1995.
They told me this is not a tentative date.
This is an actual date, April 12th of 1995.
That's when all names and area code numbers should be appearing on the caller ID.
Of course, you have to have the name delivery capable box.
Right.
Have the name appear.
Well, next year is going to have a lot of interesting nationwide changes, including the area code changes, where ones and zeros are no longer required as the middle digit.
Oh, anymore, yeah.
And nationwide caller ID mandates that supersede state mandates.
In other words, if 9X says that they want to offer privacy and the federal law says that privacy is not necessary, well, we can live by the federal law and 9X does not have to provide us with privacy.
It's kind of a scary thing.
Yeah, it's really great because, I mean, I use the 10555 all the time.
And what you have to, of course, be on cable and wireless's network to use the 10223.
I used to have an 800 number with them until they stopped providing ANI, and then I switched over to cable and wireless.
But it's great.
I mean, I receive it all the time.
People are shocked that I'm getting it.
Hey, I blocked my number.
It's still appearing.
Once in a while, I get calls from out of states where they do block the number.
They activate star 67, or they have automatic blocking, and the number is still appearing on caller ID.
So that's shocking.
That is shocking.
Well, keep us updated, okay?
Well, I'll do that.
Thanks a lot, Emmanuel.
All right.
Take care.
It's good to have people out there experimenting and seeing what is working and what is not working.
Good evening.
You're on.
Hi, I wanted to ask you if you've ever heard of this telephone that Citibank has that lets you do banking on it.
The interesting part is it will let you do some other phone stuff like look up people's phone numbers, you know, like directory assistance.
You know, you can type in someone's name and part of their address, like their state, and it will come up with, you know, like a nationwide listing.
Now, wait.
Where are these phones located?
These phones are located in your house if you apply for one and get one.
Yeah, okay.
So you're talking about phone numbers then.
Well, what do you mean by phone numbers?
Well, you call a certain phone number from your phone.
Is that what you're talking about?
Like directory assistance.
You get phone numbers.
But the point is that it will do nationwide listings, and it's a little more powerful than directory assistance.
All right.
Now, I'm a little confused here.
You pick up your phone and you dial a special number that they give you.
Well, no.
You get an actual telephone from Citibank, which is made by Philips, I think.
You get an actual phone.
Okay.
Now, what is different about this phone than any other phone?
It has a screen on it.
Ah.
But like your computer.
Okay.
I mean, it is a computer.
All right.
And in addition to doing like home banking type stuff like an ATM would do, you can, there's
a bunch of other services that the phone has, one of which is, you know, the ability to
look up phone numbers and addresses.
Well, for one thing, for a couple of hundred bucks, I think for under 300, maybe around
250 or so, you can buy a set of CD-ROMs that you can put on your computer that has nationwide
directory assistance.
In other words, you can look up anybody's name.
You can look up anybody's number.
You can look up anybody's address.
It's much more powerful than a phone book.
Oh, that's true.
And it's nationwide.
So this kind of system is something you'll be seeing a lot more of.
I'm not quite sure what Citibank is offering.
How much do they charge for that?
Well, I think at the moment it's free because it's like a test program, at least as far as
the directory assistance part goes.
For the home banking part, you're paying like 15 bucks a month or so, but the directory
assistance stuff, I think, is free at the moment.
So you can really look up as many numbers as you want without being charged.
And I guess at a certain point, they'll start charging people.
But like you said, the CD-ROM stuff is powerful in itself, although you really don't get updates
to it unless you buy them.
Yeah, exactly.
But then again, having an old directory is sometimes useful, too.
That's true.
That's true.
I know from experience.
But the Citibank thing is sort of interesting because you can certainly do stuff that you
can't do with a regular telephone book.
So do you have one of these?
Yeah, I do.
And how good is it?
Well, I guess there are certain listings that you won't find here and there either because
I really don't know where they get their database from.
But I've tried to look up a couple of people who weren't there.
And of course, I couldn't compare it with the real phone book because these were out-of-state
listings and I didn't really have the phone book to check it against.
How is it with in-state?
Well, I'm not really sure.
I've tried it a few times, but I haven't checked all that carefully.
It seems pretty good.
I mean, you know, it had the few listings that I looked for that were in there.
But if you're sort of unsure of the spelling, you're sort of out of luck.
It's not too smart as far as looking up synonyms and things like that.
Well, what I suggest is you grab a copy of the Manhattan phone book and just look up
a couple of people at random to see what it comes up with.
Well, I think the best part about it right now is that it's free.
Yeah, well, definitely.
Yeah.
Of course, will they keep it free?
I doubt that.
No, probably not.
All right.
Well, thanks for the update.
All right.
Sure.
All right.
Take care.
Speaking of the Manhattan phone book, those of you that happen to have one nearby, you
have a new one?
Okay.
This is something that somebody passed along to us.
If you look at the very, very first name in the Manhattan phone book, and then you look
at the very, very last name in the Manhattan phone book, they have the same address.
Bizarre, huh?
A lot of strange things going on out there.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Okay?
Fine.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
All right.
All right.
Yes.
I attended, I hope I just want to say it was great.
And I was just wondering, do you have the tape that you played before Robert Steele spoke?
Do you play like a tape?
The Jello Biafra piece.
Yes.
The Martial Law.
Well, we have it somewhere, not here, but it's actually a record.
Oh, it is?
Yeah.
It's a spoken word record that's readily available.
Oh, okay.
Let's go down to a record store.
Look for Jello Biafra, formerly of the Dead Kennedys.
Okay.
Thank you very much.
Okay.
Take care.
Bye.
It's quite a piece.
In fact, it's quite a record.
Good evening.
You're on.
Hi, Emmanuel.
How are you doing?
You were talking before about the devices for the remote reading of water meters.
Yes.
The guy came to install one at my house a while back.
Did they give you a choice or did they just come and say, we're putting this in?
Well, that was interesting.
They sent some letters and things that implied that I did not have a choice, that it was just
going to happen at a certain date and that was it.
And I called them up and I said, you meant with my approval, didn't you?
And they said, oh, well, why would anybody object?
I said, well, why isn't the issue?
And they tried to assure me of all sorts of things.
They gave me the name of the technical guy who could calm any of my fears if I called them
up.
So needless to say, I called them up with plenty of fears.
And did he calm them?
Oh, not to any great degree, but he did give me a lot of information about how it worked.
Okay.
So I said to the guy, yeah, go ahead and come out and install it.
And the guy who showed up was even more interesting.
He gave me more information on it.
He actually let me listen to the tones on a test set while he was hooking it up.
Okay.
And can you tell us something about it?
Well, apparently it works by, not by a ringing signal, but by changing somehow the battery voltage,
either reversing it or reducing it or something, it's the utility has to tie in directly to
the central office through some sort of special hookup.
And they use the test facilities of the central office.
So it doesn't really put a ringing voltage on your line.
So they're tied directly into the central office.
Yes.
That's interesting.
That makes them kind of one and the same with the phone company.
Yeah, sort of.
Weird.
Because they're generating voltages and affecting your line in a way that no regular telephone
subscriber could do it.
Uh-huh.
There's nothing you can dial from the outside to get into the box, which I guess is enhanced
security.
And it's also a way that the phone company itself does when they test your line.
That's right.
You hear a chirp on your phone and you'll see your light light up when nobody's on it.
Same thing.
That's the facility that they use.
And I guess they're figuring they invested in that infrastructure and they're going to
sell it to utilities and use it for remote billing.
It turns out that they couldn't hook it up on my line because I have a device I bought years
ago from Radio Shack, which is a hold module that you activate by flashing the hook switch
twice from any phone.
And it picks up the phone, essentially keeps it off hook while you hang up and go to some
other phone and pick it up just to put a call on hold.
Uh-huh.
And that every time their test signal would come in, it would activate this Radio Shack
device.
Is dinner ready or something?
It's just, well, I think it's time for you to get off the air is what that is.
Okay.
But what it would do is...
Are you calling from a church or something?
No, just in my living room.
Oh, okay.
It picked up the phone, which confirms what you had said before, that if somebody in the
house picks up the line, goes off hook, they can't read the meter.
How about that?
But what happened was that prevented them from calling it.
Okay.
Well, you'll have to tell us more about this in the future.
We're out of time right now.
But thanks for calling.
Okay.
Take care.
That's one thing we're going to be hearing a lot more of, water and electric meter readers
over your phone line.
We'll be back again next week.
We'll be talking about that and maybe some other things as well.
This is WBAI New York.
Stay tuned for a rebroadcast of the Evening News.
Good night.
I hope that's understood.
But didn't it go?
Good night.