The preceding announcement was a recording.
It could be yet much worse, but if they could, they would.
Bondi-Li-Bomb were the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood.
Bondi-Li-Bomb!
Bondi-Li-Bomb!
Bondi-Li-Bomb!
And a very good evening to everybody.
This is Off the Hook, the program about technology, phones, computers, the internet, the future, all that kind of thing.
Those of us who have seen the future know it's filled with all kinds of unpleasantness sometimes.
Oh, well.
Stay tuned.
We'll tell you what we mean.
Give me back my broken night, my mirror broke.
My secret life is lonely here.
There's no one left to torture.
Give me absolute control over every living soul.
And lie beside me, baby, that's an order.
Take it, baby.
Give me a crack in your sex.
Take the only tree that's left.
Stub it up the hole in your culture.
Take it, baby.
Give me back the burning wall.
Give me a star and say, oh, I've seen a future, brother.
It is murder.
Telling you.
Things don't slide.
Slide in all directions.
Won't be nothing you can't measure anymore.
The blizzard.
The blizzard of the world has crossed the threshold, and it's overturned the order of the soul.
When they say, repent, repent, repent, I wonder what the direction is.
When they say, repent, repent, repent, I wonder what the direction is.
When they say, repent, repent, I wonder what the direction is.
I wonder what they mean
Give me back
Burning wall
Give me stone
And St. Paul
Give me Christ
Or give me Hiroshima
Destroy another
Fetus now
We don't have children
In our house
I've seen the future
It is murder
Things are gonna slide
In all directions
Won't be nothing
Nothing you can't measure
Anymore
The blizzard
The blizzard of the world
Is across the threshold
And it's overturned
The order of the soul
When they say
Repent
I wonder what they meant
When they said
Repent
I wonder what they meant
Repent
I wonder what they meant
I wonder what they meant
When they said
Repent
guest tonight but that's all i'll say for the moment we'll see if that actually uh comes through
we do have a sort of special guest in the studio hi rob hi there how are you still here hope was
two weeks ago yeah i know let you out of the country or something no they won't let me back
into mine i see rob is the dutch publisher of hacktick magazine and he's here to uh offer
occasional side commentary and and various things like that so uh we'll uh we'll be back at you in
a few minutes we have a story which is just not to be believed i mean i know i say that every week
but this is a story that put me into uh what you might call a brown funk actually no that's not
entirely true either because well this story made me so angry that um that i don't know i didn't feel
depressed i just felt complete and total anger uh of a kind you just would not believe and it comes
from what you would expect to be a um a fairly progressive
newspaper you know one of those uh alternative street papers all kinds of alternative sounds
cultural differences and things like that well not in this particular case i'm sorry this particular
case these guys out did the new york post and i mean that let me read you a very brief editorial
which appeared in the uh city paper of philadelphia had a whole special on hackers
i have to admit that i'm sometimes thrilled when i read about some of the ingenious deeds of hackers and
e-bandits catchphrase of the week sometimes as an editor and journalist someone who spends time and
money finding out information that others don't want found out i feel a special kinship with people
who secretly burrow into databases i get a real kick watching them tweak the noses of the marketing
weasels who want to know more about individuals than they do about themselves why should a company
like citibank visa have the right to keep records on every purchase i make why should they have the
right to sell my buying patterns to the highest bidder why should bell atlantic the company which
calls itself the heart of communications have the exclusive right to keep a log of my phone calls
and on top of that give me a minor coronary every time i open the phone bill i'm sorry even hackers
aren't that stupid why does the phone company have the right to keep a record of who you call
and yeah of course they're going to bill you for it anyway information like speech should be free
proclaim the hackers screw the suits they say who hoard data and restrict access to hell
with those who make a living by abridging our fundamental rights of privacy or so the argument
goes until the hackers take a bite out of me or you when some jerk ripped off my credit card number
while i was using a payphone on the new jersey turnpike and started charging calls to oklahoma on my account
i was damn glad when at&t shut them down in two days hooray for the suits i cried
and when a few years ago someone infected the city papers information system with the virus
i wanted to bite some pimply faced punk's head off
that's my data on other people you're messing with bud
and since city paper is a company that packages information for a business
that's our livelihood you're trying to ruin
as a newspaper we'd die if we didn't weasel information out of people who didn't want to give
it up but as a business the moles who invade our own private gardens could leave us to starve
and that is my dilemma the people that we write about this week are either freedom fighters or
uncommon criminals depending on how you look at it
this week's cover story on hackers
puts this question into high relief
if after centuries of unresolved debate
about violations of physical privacy
how are we now going to distinguish right and wrong
when it comes to protecting our virtual selves
technology has raced past morality and frankly
the current culture is yielding very few answers
well perhaps somebody out there can uh...
can explain to us
how
somebody
looking over a shoulder on the new jersey turnpike and finding a credit card number
how does that have anything to do with hacking
how does someone
putting a virus in the city papers information system have anything to do with hacking
probably one of your own ex-employees or current employees
because if uh... you treat them any way
similar to the way you write stories
i don't doubt there are a lot of viruses floating around
it is uh...
kind of the tone that was set
for the um...
this particular story
oh it's awful
it really is
and they have this big piece on fiber optic in prison
which is something that uh...
i think will
make people really see red
don't worry we'll be giving out the phone number for uh...
these fine people real soon
oh yeah we will
it is 6 p.m.
on a friday
weekend rush hour
at 30th street station
the place
is bedlam
actually it's philadelphia but uh...
it's a scramble of
commuters pouring in and out of new york and washington trains
i am at stairway seven looking around for a nondescript group of computer enthusiasts
who call themselves hackers and freakers
kids for the most part who like to mess around with communications networks
there is so much tumor
tumor
commotion
always had trouble with that word
there's so much commotion at the station
for several minutes i wonder
if i will ever locate this meeting of the local chapter of 2600
a nationwide band of hackers and freakers
named after the tone cycle needed to access free telephone calls
all over the world at the same time between 5 p.m. and 8 p.m. eastern standard time
first friday of each month
2600 club meetings are taking place in similar clandestine locales
yeah
the middle of
the city's biggest train station is a clandestine locale
city core center is clandestine
sure
it doesn't matter what we do
we're always going to be meeting in secret even if we're right out there in the open
they meet to talk shop
trade secrets and see the faces behind the handles they've chatted with via bulletin board systems
online networks and the internet
conversations that are often about breaking into supposedly secure networks
obtaining free telephone service
and other mischiefs
some of it highly illegal
i've been told
that some of these hacker freakers
that's another new word
who know how to access your credit history
and your telephone service
can and will mess with your life
just for the fun of it
it's a thought that gives me pause
because
i've come
to hack
the hackers
well
i think you can guess how the article goes
more
more accusations
more
fear of the unknown
and
no facts at all
no facts really to back things up
and then the
the part which really is
is really
very annoying
it's the part on fiber optic
they went to
to his prison
to talk to him
and they came up with this sidebar
called
moral fiber
get it
moral fiber
i'll read excerpts from it
because the whole thing will be
too painful to sit through
as he sits in the small meeting room
of the federal prison camp
in minerville pennsylvania
now of course the town is called
minorsville
throughout the entire article
they get the town wrong
it's in their own state
and they can't even get that right
federal prison camp in minerville pennsylvania
mark abene nervously clasps
and unclasps
his long fingers
fingers
that are far more used
to tapping on computer keyboards
than they are
to guiding a buffing machine
over a kitchen floor
get the
dramatic irony there
but since there are no computers
in prison
at least
none that prisoners like abene
have access to
his digits
have spent the last seven months
making the transformation
from high-tech lethal weapons
to low-tech cleaning apparatus
i still can't believe i am here
says abene
a high school dropout
better known to law enforcement officers
and modem heads
as the nefarious fiber optic
leader of the masters of deception
computer hacking clique
what i did
may have been illegal
but it wasn't criminal
here's what abene did
and here's what will really
get a lot of us angry
illegally obtained credit reports
destroyed a public television station's computer
that had provided educational materials
to hundreds of schools
broke into the computer systems
of southwestern bell
yeah right
oh and for good measure
and this is the part
that might make you laugh
abene and his four cohorts
also managed to induce
nbc tv's computer
to issue a happy thanksgiving message
that flashed across screens
during an nbc news broadcast
well
that's not exactly how it happened
is it
those of us who uh
who know the facts
will remember
that
this was a particular message
that was flashed across
a computer
at wnet
and this was
long ago proven that
that fiber optic
had nothing to do with that
it was
another person
who was never charged
in fact the feds
went to work
with this person
to lock people like mark up
the person that caused the damage
was the person
that
the federal government
cooperated with
that kind of irony
just never ceases to amaze me
but
the funny thing about
this whole thing was
that the happy thanksgiving message
was flashed
onto the computer
of wnet
you know
it's just
not an on air type of a thing
just a little pc
or something
now this was mentioned
on a wnbc news report
mark made reference
to what some
malicious people
might do
now this particular newspaper
turns that around
into somebody
broadcasting it
over nbc
so somebody
mentioning it
on channel 4
turns into a hacker
broadcasting it
over the news
of an entire
nationwide network
this is the kind of journalism
we're dealing with here
no journalism at all
anyway
to continue
with this nonsense here
Benny's antics
brought him
great fame
and honor
among the hacking
freaking set
but it also brought
the fbi
and secret service
swooping into his home
on november 14th
1989
with guns drawn
seizing nearly
everything he owned
it was the first time
that the government
used wiretaps
again wrong
that did not happen
in 1989
that happened in 1991
but let's just continue
with the farce
in essence
hacking the hackers
there's that phrase again
eventually
Benny's antics
also brought him
a year
and a day
sentence
at the prison camp
for trespassing
in computer systems
with about four months
to go in his sentence
Benny maintains
that he did nothing wrong
and that the government
is wasting its time
and the taxpayers
money
investigating the so-called
hackers and freakers
who idle away
their hours
searching for breaches
in the computer
security systems
of government
and corporations
in particular
telephone companies
and credit bureaus
well
it goes on
with all kinds of
kind of mocking
tone here
and
they basically
say things
that wound up
getting him into
trouble at the prison
too
because
Mark does
tend to speak
his mind
on certain things
such as
prison conditions
and to have that
printed in a newspaper
and then sent
back to the prison
certainly didn't
do him much good
in fact
shortly after
this article
came out
he was fired
from the job
that he had
in the kitchen
and was forced
to do something
a bit more difficult
all right
so that's
that's the crap
that's coming out
in alternative
newspapers
not much of an
alternative there
at all
you want to write
to these people
you want to call
them up
well
these are the
people you want
to talk to
Howard Altman
and
Margit
Detweller
that's M-A-R-G-I-T
D-E-T
W-E-L-L-E-R
and
I don't have
the number
handy
but you know
what
I'm going to
perform a
public service
for the entire
tri-state area
I'm going to
call information
oh
why am I
getting another
dial tone
that doesn't
make any sense
let me
is that going
to work
George this is
JC can I help
you
hello is this
Philadelphia
yes
I need the
main number
for the
Philadelphia
city paper
please
Philadelphia
city paper
yeah it's one
of those
alternative free
papers
thank you
thank you
I have
city paper
on 13th
street
or
Chancellor
street
well is it
the same
organization
yes
they have
the same
number
hold on
okay thank
you
you're welcome
the number
is
area code
215
735
8444
repeat
the number
is
area code
215
735
8444
if you need
further
assistance
a directory
assistance
operator
will return
well we
don't need
further
assistance
but it's
very nice
that they
return over
there in
Philadelphia
here in
New York
they don't
return anymore
they just
hang up
and make
you call
back
which isn't
very nice
at all
alright so
give a call
to that number
if you have
any comments
on this
particular piece
or if you
want to get
a full copy
I'm sure
you can
somehow
finagle
them into
sending it
to you
but don't
expect
too much
it's
amazing
what kind
of garbage
comes out
and that's
the dilemma
we're always
faced with
as far as
talking to
the press
you know
will something
like that
happen
or will
something
intelligent
come out
unfortunately
the intelligence
doesn't happen
very often
when it does
happen
it's good
but it
doesn't happen
very often
at all
okay
what else
is out
there
today's
New York
Times
CompuServe
to offer
a link
to the
internet
how exciting
new service
to focus
on corporate
users
CompuServe
incorporated
one of the
world's
largest
commercial
information
services
said yesterday
that it
planned to
become a
global service
provider for
businesses
and individuals
wanting to
connect to
the internet
the company
division of
H&R Block
did you know
that?
Did you know
they were owned
by H&R Block?
alright
well they are
and they're
based in
Columbus,
Ohio
they already
have the
computer network
infrastructure
in place
to compete
in the
small
but rapidly
growing
business
of providing
internet
access
this is a
game that
moves as
you play
said Lisa
Thorell
who tracks
online services
for DataQuest
a market
research company
in San Jose
California
CompuServe
is moving
in fast
before the
rules are
set
it's a
bold action
yeah
okay
maybe about
10 years
too late
but a
bold action
nonetheless
okay
ready for the
New York Times
definition of
the internet
okay
here we go
the internet
is a global
web of more
than 2 million
computers on
30,000 mostly
private networks
that is used by
millions of people
to exchange
computer files
and electronic
mail
okay
we'll live
with that one
by all accounts
the internet
is doubling
in size
each year
the strongest
growth on the
internet appears
to be coming
from commercial
users who
see the internet
as a new
medium for
communicating with
customers and
suppliers
CompuServe
officials said
a new business
will be formed
possibly as soon
as mid-September
to offer
internet services
to commercial
customers including
high-speed T1
lease line
internet service
dial-up direct
connection over
regular phone lines
and support for
electronic publishing
on the area of
the internet known
as the World Wide
Web
special little section
that's roped off
in addition the
new company would
help businesses
develop software
manage security
and handle
customer support
on the internet
well it's all
fine and good
but it's not
really the internet
if you go through
CompuServe
I'm sure everybody
knows that
CompuServe also
plans to offer
public internet
access separate
from its consumer
service sometime
next spring
the move means
that CompuServe
will compete with
large internet
service providers
like Netcom
and PSI
CompuServe
officials said
pricing would be
competitive with
that of Netcom
and PSI
which is typically
$20 a month
and up
while CompuServe
would clearly be
a major player
among internet
service providers
it may be followed
by other large
companies including
Ameritech
US Sprint
Pacific Bell
MSF DataNet
and yeah
9x
9x providing
information
providing access
to the internet
they can't even
provide me with a
clean phone line
so I can get a
modem connection
it's a very
early market
Mrs. Thorrell
said
I would estimate
that at the
end of 1993
it was no more
than $60 million
but it's on a
high growth path
Netcom
currently the
largest internet
provider with some
50,000 customers
operates 32 points
of presence in the
United States
plans to open
15 more by the
end of the year
including 914
area code I
understand
so those of you
up in 914
Netcom will be
coming to you
fairly soon
but again
these are all
commercial providers
which are
different than
other smaller
providers
just something to
keep in mind
and I suggest
people try out
both
that way they
can see what
the real difference
is between the
two
but certainly
something with
a long history
of overcharging
such as
CompuServe
I wouldn't look
favorably upon
them as providing
a real open
door to the
internet
but we'll see
we'll see what
happens
here's a letter
a letter to
Off the Hook
you can write
your letters
to Off the Hook
by addressing
them to us
here
Off the Hook
here of WBAI
505 8th Avenue
New York
New York
10018
another conspiracy
you may be aware
of the heavily
advertised
nobody beats
the whiz
Woodstock
sweepstakes
which ended
on August 10th
a side note to
that you know
the name of the
company is not
the whiz
it's nobody
beats the whiz
that's the real
name of the store
there
and the reason
for that is
because you
can beat the whiz
so if you're
able to beat
the whiz
and prove
them wrong
you might be
able to sue
them for a lot
of money
but since
their name
is nobody
beats the whiz
you can't
get them
on anything
clever huh
anyway
the nobody
beats the whiz
Woodstock
sweepstakes
ended on
August 10th
you cut out
a bar
a barcoded
sweepstakes
game card
from the
Sunday
July 31st
or August 7th
whiz circular
and have it
read by a
whiz store
scanner
this sweepstakes
was not fair
the large barcodes
on my losing
three game cards
were all clearly
identical
suggesting only one
losing game card
barcode was used
this certainly
distorted the random
odds of winning
in other words
every losing barcode
looked exactly the same
so that means
several people
from newspaper vendors
who received
Sunday circular
several days in advance
could have
rifled through
batches of
circulars
picking out
all the
non-losing
sweepstakes
entries
any entry
deviating
from the
single
losing
barcode
and they
included
a
clipping
of all
the
losing
game cards
in that
particular
entry
and they
all look
exactly
the same
very easy
to pick
out a
difference
I'm sure
I don't
think it
was a
barcode
at all
but
that's
another
thing
okay
we're gonna
take some
phone calls
now
212-279-3400
again
we might have
some surprises
later on in the show
we might not
if we do
it's a surprise
if we don't
it's a surprise
we never know
Rob is here
yo
how you doing
so what have you
been doing here
in the United States
over the past
several weeks
oh just basically
vacationing
not much technical
stuff
wanted to visit
Boston to
see some
some of the
hacking
and activity
going on there
but didn't
have any luck
gonna try again
on that
and he was
hiking through
the Adirondack
mountains
no technical
stuff
no phones
no nothing
no phones
no global
satellite
locators
nothing like that
nothing
hmm
well
never let it
be said
that hackers
cannot get
away from
computers
for a while
but
you must
miss
being
back in
the heart
of things
oh but I'm
the exception
all the other
hackers can't
oh really
you're the
exception
okay well
we'll see
about that
we'll see
about that
Rob you won't
be at the
New York
meeting this
week will you
no I'll be at
the Boston
one
you'll be at
the Boston
meeting
okay
hopefully you'll
call in and
let us know
how things are
going there
for the rest
of you
yes there is a
hacker meeting
this Friday
at the City
Core Center
505
8th Avenue
no that's us
what's the address
it's on
between Lexington
and
and third
in the lobby
by the
pay funds
City Core
Center
between 5
and 8
p.m.
so hopefully
we'll see
some people
there
some post
hopesters
or what have
you
and we'll
relive all
times
okay
212-279-3400
let's hear
what's on
your minds
good evening
hello to you
too
in the Los
Angeles
Times
news service
yesterday's
Staten Island
Advance
was
say
Staten Island
Advance
yeah
I'm sorry
yesterday's
Staten Island
Advance
FBI gets
a most
wanted
computer
hacker
yes
Agent
Steel
has been
caught
I'm glad
you have
that story
because I
don't have
it
Justin Peterson
know him
Justin Peterson
yes
that was
Agent
Steel
he was
I see
you're right
Agent
Steel
yeah
he was
a
narc
in the
hacker
world
he basically
he basically
deceived
everybody
because
the federal
authorities
hired him
to spy on
the hackers
but then
they
discovered
that he
was actually
doing all
kinds of
illegal
things
at the
same
time
so
he
just
claimed
that
that
they
ever
hired
him
as
the
agencies
will
do
and he's
going into
jail
yeah
well
they
caught him
I believe
two or
three days
ago
yes
and
that
if you
recall
was one
of the
people
at
Computers
Freedom
and Privacy
that the
FBI people
were looking
for
and
they
managed to
pull over
some poor
guy from
Hofstra
University
who happened
to have
long dark
hair
and they
ordered him
to show
them his
leg
because
Agent
Steel
has a
prosthetic
limb
really
yeah
and that's
also
why
he
wasn't
able
to
run
away
from
them
as
quickly
as
he
would
have
liked
well
that goes
to show
willpower
does
do you
some good
but not
enough
in this
particular
case
so yeah
he's
scheduled
to be
arraigned
I think
on October
31st
right
so he'll
be
he's not
going to
have any
bail
I don't
think
and
yeah
exactly
and it
seems
that the
the
charges
against
them
are
so far
out of
reality
compared
to where
some
other
people
who
steal
so much
money
like
savings
banks
and
whitewater
cases
they get
away
with
hardly
a slap
on the
wrist
you're right
Agent
Steel
yeah
but you
know
this is
not
somebody
that I
would
really
call
a
hacker
to be
honest
I mean
he
was
engaging
in some
pretty
nefarious
activities
there
I don't
know if
he should
be locked
away for
the rest
of his
life
or even
for a
significant
period
of time
but
he
definitely
was not
hacking
he might
have been
hacking
the system
to a
degree
I'm not
that
adroit
with the
words
that you
are
what
do you
mean
he was
not
hacking
well
you know
a hacker
is somebody
that tests
the limits
is somebody
that plays
with technology
and occasionally
wanders into
territories
where he's
technically not
supposed to be
but a criminal
is somebody
that profits
from this
that makes
money
that steals
and there's
a you know
to me
the difference
is very
obvious
the article
did not go
into what
he stole
or how
he made
money
that's because
they don't
really know
they just know
what the feds
are telling
them
he faces up
to 40 years
in prisons
and fines
up to 1.5
million
yeah well
you know
what you face
is always
something kind
of crazy
I mean
fiber optic
was facing
something like
50 years
in fact
I was facing
50 years
once
you know
when I was
in trouble
for hacking
they always
give you
something really
phenomenal
to make you
you know
roll over
and talk
some more
I'm telling
the article
to Joe King
so if you
need an extra
copy
ask him for
it next week
okay I will
well thanks
for telling us
okay
alright take care
yeah that was
the major
news event
in the hacker
world I guess
for this particular
week
Agent Steel
has
Justice has
caught up
with him
however Kevin
Mitnick is
still on the
run
nobody knows
where he is
that's
that's something
else we'll be
keeping an eye
on
good evening
you're not
on okay
good evening
you're on
good evening
do you have
a copy of
the press
release
on the
whatchamacallit
the call
ID
mandatory
nationwide
availability
and now
the notice
and order
from the FCC
that have
come out
do I have
a copy
of that
not the
final version
no I do
not have
a copy
of the
final version
oh okay
let me have
Ms. Hutchings
at the FCC
send you a copy
of that
what's that
PO box number
okay you can
send that over
to send that
to PO box
99
in Middle
Island
New York
zip code
11953
that's where
you can send
any kind
of information
for the
magazine
so what's
what's the
organization
name
2600
2600
magazine
yeah
okay
by the way
the address
of City
Corp
Center
not that it
would do
anyone any
good when
they get
there
because
there's
no single
door
at such
a location
but it's
153
East 53rd
yes I
remembered it
right after
I said
that
53
what else
was I
going to
say to
you there
anyway that's
about the
call
I asked
her
I think
it was
today I
was talking
to her
I said
she said
it would be
unusual for
the FCC
to have
acted so
quickly
after the
response
to the
comment period
first they have
the 90 day
comment period
and then they
have the
response to
the comments
and now that
is closed
and I think
it was June
and so
this is too
early but
she said
by the
end of
the year
they should
come to
their decision
and announce
that let's
say for
example that
that April
12th
1995
Wednesday
date is
final because
the carriers
have to do
certain things
to get
into
you know
get ready
for it so
they have to
be given
a reasonable
amount of
time to do
so
by the
way
have you
any idea
on the
500
service
if it's
going to
be dialable
as a
regular
area code
from any
telephone
overseas
I think
it should
be
I know
some
companies
in Canada
are actually
going to be
making use
of it as
well so I
think it's
going to be
a regular
area code
although it
would be the
first SAC
special area
code that
would be
dialable
from overseas
right of
course you
know in
many countries
the toll
free code
like 678
in Italy
or whatever
it is for
a given
country
can be
dialed
direct
from any
phone
overseas
without
having to
go via
call USA
or USA
direct
which is
the only
way you
can do
it if
you're
calling an
800 number
in this
country
and if
you want
to have
some real
fun you
can call
USA
direct
numbers
from here
you can
call I
think
Holland
last I
checked
you can
call
the USA
direct
number
in Holland
which will
connect you
to an
AT&T
operator
which will
allow you
to place
calls back
to the
United States
from Holland
and basically
you can convince
anybody that
you're in Holland
and at the same
time pay for
two overseas
calls at the
same time
yes I
inadvertently
when I
signed up
once
with
Sprint
for some
overseas
to receive
overseas
calls
from
800
it was
a
disaster
first of
all
Hong Kong
was changing
from 008
to 800
so you
could dial
it either
way for
one year
there
and
second
people
in hotel
rooms
in Hong
Kong
hotel
guests
got it
bollocksed
up so
that when
they called
home to
Taiwan
they ended
up getting
my number
and I was
paying for
all those
calls
the only
two companies
that I
know of
that offer
800 service
or toll free
service
with a pin
that you
enter after
you make
the call
you hear
boop boop
and you
enter a
four digit
pin
which completely
rules out
wrong number
calls
to a toll free
number
are MCI
and Allnet
neither of
them offers
it on
calls coming
in from
overseas
which raises
one last
point if I
may
it may have
something to
do with the
quality of the
tones because
somebody recently
has been
saying you
may not be
able to do
such and
such if you
call from
overseas
I thought
when they
set up
the tones
that started
back what
1964 was
the first
tone dialing
I thought
it was under
CCITT standards
that all
the phones
in the world
would have
to make
exactly the
same pitch
or frequency
or whatever
it is
is that not
so then
maybe
maybe if they
work with
their companies
dialing switches
it's hard
their local
companies but
not
well I'm
going to
let Rob
address that
and thanks
for the call
we're going
to move
on afterwards
go ahead
touchstones
are the same
everywhere
at least
everywhere
I've been
or heard
from
exactly the
same
right
yeah
it's just
that many
countries don't
have many
touchstone
phones
they use
pulse only
like even
fairly sophisticated
countries like
Germany
have almost
no tone
phones
it's pulse
only
and they're
moving straight
to ISDN
now
skipping over
that
it's like
when I
visited
Inuit
natives
in upper
Canada
they go
from
handwriting
they skip
over the
typewriter stage
and they go
straight into
max
I mean
that's
really an
incredible
jump
but as
in Germany
they're skipping
over the
touchstones
and going
straight into
ISDN
yeah
the other
thing as far
as the
500 special
area code
it may be
dialable from
overseas
but many
countries
Holland has
now gotten
pretty good
about it
but many
countries
take weeks
if not
sometimes
months
before they
update extra
area codes
in America
or other
countries
and there's
even countries
in the world
where area codes
have existed
for months
and months
and months
without the
rest of the
world being
able to
dial them
so there's
no really
uniform system
in place
worldwide
to tell
phone companies
what the
area codes
in countries
are
and more
and more
phone companies
are beginning
to select
out wrong
numbers
by non-existent
area codes
locally
as you dial
out of one
country
instead of
when you dial
into the
other country
to save
bandwidth
on the
international
lines
so
but that's
getting better
now
at least
it is
from Holland
I haven't
noticed
any
major
faults
in that
for at
least
a half
a year
as far
as country
direct
services
we
the Holland
direct
Nederland
direct
service
that's
available
from
overseas
has
phone
numbers
in
Amsterdam
that they
translate
to
so every
international
number
in some
country
worldwide
like the
1-800
number
for it
translates
to an
Amsterdam
phone
number
a regular
Amsterdam
phone
number
so if
you have
this list
of Amsterdam
phone
numbers
we scanned
them out
once
you can
actually dial
ordinary
local calls
in Amsterdam
and pretend
to be coming
into Nederland
direct
from all
these
different
countries
so one
night
we were
calling
the operator
from all
these
different
countries
and drove
them really
nuts
so probably
AT&T has
a normal
phone number
that the
country
direct
for a
given
country
translates
to
so if
you find
these out
you can
just dial
that would
be fun
that would
be a lot
of fun
to find
those out
save yourself
a pretty
penny
too
yes
you can
pay for
only one
overseas
call
while you're
actually
making a
national
call
that's
true
some
new
area
codes
that I
just
found
out
about
this
week
area
code
believe it
or not
540
has been
assigned
to
parts
of
Virginia
it's
going
to be
part
of
a
703
area
code
split
540
will
be
the
new
area
code
starting
in
July
of
1995
now
what's
kind
of
funny
about
that
is
540
is
a
pay
service
here
in
this
country
and
I
imagine
there will
be some
confusion
particularly
in places
like
Long
Island
where
a
one
is
not
required
although
it
will
be
a
one
will
be
required
later
in
September
I
believe
but
it
still
is
going
to
cause
quite
a
bit
of
confusion
540
plus
four
numbers
you
don't
know
what
you're
going
to
be
charged
you
could
be
charged
$75
for
calling
a
540
number
just
like
that
there
was
a
scandal
a
year
or so
ago
about
somebody
who
was
beeping
people
with
his
540
number
so that
they'd
call it
and
he'd
make
all
kinds
of
profits
so
when
you get
a number
in the
540
area code
that's
I don't
know
some people
might not
want to
call that
right away
who knows
the other
area code
is
630
and that
will be
area code
similar
to
917
917
here in
New York
is for
beepers
cellular
phones
things like
that
and
also
562
is an
overlay
for Los
Angeles
that will
be taking
effect
next year
and
610
is an
overlay
for
Chicago
as soon as
they're
running out
of phone
numbers
because of
all the
beepers
and cellular
phones
so
those
are the
new
area codes
630
will be
taking
effect
in
January
of
next
year
so
that
one
is
coming
a bit
sooner
we'll
keep
you updated
as to
all kinds
of other
weird and
strange
area codes
okay
let's
oh by the
way I also
heard that
the new
Manhattan
telephone books
have a
listing of
area codes
in the front
of the phone
book
and one of
the area codes
is 710
and 710
is listed
as US
government
now
710 has
always been
listed as US
government
on various
files that
float around
on the
internet
but this
is the
first
time
that
it's
shown
up
in
a
phone
book
that
way
it's
almost
like
the
people
at
the
phone
company
grabbed
a file
off
the
internet
and printed
it in
the phone
book
saying here's
a list
of area
codes
just like
any hacker
would do
but yeah
now they say
710 is
US government
and they
don't really
go into
any more
detail
and the
thing is
if you
call an
operator
and ask
them
they will
say they
have never
heard of
the 710
area code
so it's
anybody's
guess as
to what
that's
all about
so we'll
be keeping
you informed
on that
good evening
you're on
yes hi
I'd like to
know as
far as
barcodes
in stores
like
supermarkets
I was
wondering if
you were
to let's
say
cover
you know
like
you buy
something
for like
that's
cost
three dollars
and if
you you
know copy
the barcode
and you
place it
over you
know you
put it
on a
white
label
and you
put you
know it's
covered with
like a
metal thing
a little
bit like
a little
metal
labels
yeah
and if
you put
that label
let's say
for a
dollar product
barcode
on that
three dollar
you know
whatever
product that
you have
over that
and would
read out
when it
check it
out on
a dollar
item
if you
cover
the first
barcode
with your
barcode
if you
cover the
first barcode
with your
barcode
yes that's
exactly what
will happen
your barcode
will scan
the machine
first
so theoretically
you can actually
buy stuff
and just
bypass their
whole you know
security system
yeah it would
make a great
business to have
you know do it
yourself barcodes
you just simply
hand out barcodes
with sticky stuff
on the back
and just go around
slapping it on all
the items in the
store and
save millions of
dollars that way
yeah it's
similar to a
Saturday night
skit
skit
I'm trying to
say sketch
and skit
at the same
time
where someone
went around
with a price
you know
a price
labeler
do it yourself
price labeling
right
get this
50 pound bag
of dog food
for 3 cents
right
you know
you just have
to keep in
mind that
on the printout
it's going to
say what it
is that you're
buying and
you know
a somewhat
savvy
cashier
might wonder
why
you're buying
you know
every item
that you're
bringing up
comes up
as strawberry
pop tarts
right
it's something
that you might
want to keep
an eye on
that's illegal
to do
I mean
get arrested
for that
well what do
you think
do you think
it's illegal
to do that
they can't
prove that
you actually
did it
this is an
example of
how you know
when you're
crossing the
line
now obviously
if you stick
something like
that on
and you walk
through a
checkout
and you pay
49 cents
for something
that's worth
six dollars
it's a crime
I mean
you're stealing
something
obviously
like how can
you prove
that I actually
you know
okay let's
say you're the
cash
ready
but that's
not the point
whether or not
they can prove
you did it
that's not the
point
the point is
you have to
know you're
committing a
crime
all right
and it's
pretty obvious
you're committing
a crime
if you do
that
if you get
away with it
you get
away with it
now figuring
it out
that's one
thing
if you can
figure out
how their
barcodes work
and design
a barcode
of your own
that will
bypass the
whole thing
that's pretty
good that you
can do that
basic barcode
right
what's the
basic barcode
called
a bi-pad
number I believe
it's like a
universal product
code
UPC symbol
yeah
that's what
they're using
so it's very
easy to bypass
that
but you have
to use a
label
you can use
any label
you have to
use like
something
with the
barcode
you can use
a regular
label
like a
white label
covering
their barcode
well you can
pretty much
use anything
hang on
we have to
break for
one moment
we'll be back
in just a second
okay
remember I said
there was a
surprise
well
here's the
surprise
surprise
fiber optic
how are you
okay
you got a
lousy line
here but
we're gonna
have to
make do
with it
you're
calling us
live
yes
live
we're not
gonna bother
going into
how this
was worked
out
but
let's
just
thank our
stars
we were
able to
do this
this is
the first
time
you've
talked
live
in this
program
since
you went
away
in January
since before
you went
away in
January
yeah
so tell
us
how are
things
with you
right now
very boring
very slow
well we're
gonna make
things a little
more exciting
for you
how's that
we're gonna
hook you up
with some
people calling
in
and you can
say hi
to them
they can
say hi
to you
fiber optic
is on
the phone
lines
with us
tonight
212-279-3400
we just
read part
of that
horrible article
in the city
news
what was your
take on that
oh I thought
it was terrible
the guy
obviously didn't
pay attention
to anything
that I said
in the interview
that's really
sad that you
wasted time
with that
I know
how are
how are things
as far as
your
activities
your job
and all
that kind
of thing
well I
have
a really
great job
buffing the
floor
in the
building
that we
live in
tell us
tell us
that buffing
adventure
you told me
about this
about a week
ago
this is quite
a story
oh the one
where I
lost control
of the buffer
you lost
control
but now
a buffer
by the way
is one
of those
big machinery
things that
people use
to clean
floors
and Mark's
job now
is to
buff floors
but it
didn't quite
work out
that way
no it's
just like
the guy
you see
in the
department
stores
buffing
the floors
basically
that's what
I do
I shine
the floor
up nice
so that
when we
have
inspections
the floor
is nice
and shiny
but apparently
I had a
little mishap
a week
or so
ago
what happened
was that
the switch
on the
handle
of the
buffer
was broken
so that
the buffer
stayed
permanently
on
when you
plugged it
in
and the
buffer
since the
pad spins
around
on the
bottom
it has a
tendency
to want
to spin
unless you're
holding on
to the
handle
well wouldn't
you know it
I lost my
grip on the
handle
and the
buffer started
spinning around
violently
and uncontrollably
and was
knocking me
around a
little bit
this huge
machine spinning
as fast as
the little
scrubbing part
is supposed to
spin
it was kind
of funny
actually
I was a
little shook
up
but I got
over it
I kind
of had
fear of
the buffer
a day or
two afterwards
fear of
the buffer
yeah but
but there
was actually
a danger
to you
was there
not
oh well
yeah
in some
of the
other
buffers
that I
had used
there were
metal
bristles
on the
under part
that hold
the pads
onto the
buffer
and if
in fact
they would
have been
metal
which they
weren't
I was lucky
that there
were plastic
bristles
on this
particular
buffing
machine
it probably
would have
ripped my
shoes apart
and my feet
along with it
because as the
buffer flew out of
control it ran
my feet over
and bumped me
up against the
wall and all
kinds of fun
things like that
all right well if
there are any
buffers out there
that that can
offer some tips
for fiber optic
and his buffing
and his buffing
career over there
at school kill
well
they'll call in
I guess
okay we're going
to take some
quick phone calls
and we ask people
please keep it
short and just
call in to say
hi to Mark
because this is
the first chance
he's had to say
hi to you
in however many
months it's been
eight months
so we're going
to try and get
through as many
calls as we can
let's try to keep
each one to about
30 seconds or so
so we can get a
fair number in
okay
212-279-3400
let's take our
first one
good evening
you're on
hi this is
Rosa Field
hi
hi fiber
this is
Rosa Field
are you not
getting feedback
right
no just from
you
do you have a
message for
fiber
yeah you got
to eat more
you got to eat
more and work
out in the gym
and lift with
your legs
not with your
back
and
she's right
about that
use your body
weight by bending
your knees as a
counterbalance
and you'll be able
to control that
thing
and you missed
out on a really
good lawsuit against
the prison systems
you could have been
a millionaire by now
if you had worn
slippers or bare feet
when that thing went
out of control
okay next time
we'll try to get him
injured so that he can
make some money off it
thanks for the tips
there and let's see
if any other people
have similar tips
good evening
you're on
hi just one question
to fiber
fiber hi it's me
you remember this
voice don't you
i remember you
i mean you remember
you telling me that
you had a trouble
with lock tell the
telephone company
in pennsylvania
lock tell yeah
now has anybody
gotten a bill from
lock tell yet
doesn't stacy call you
collector or you call
stacy collector
something
no it's
well all right
mark explain the
phone system to us
quickly
well it's since been
repaired but initially
they had pretty much
destroyed the phone
system all by
themselves and they
had put in a
makeshift system that
was collect calls
only and it was
really hectic because
there were no
restrictions anyone
could call anywhere
collect and there's
over 300 people here
and there's less than
half a dozen phones
even if it was
blocked you could
call collect
yeah
okay now when
somebody gets the
bill they should get
a bill from lock
tell and there should
be an 800 number
there that
obviously that's what
i've been telling
people but no one's
gotten a bill yet
and no one's been
able to find out
where this mysterious
lock tell is located
or even how you spell
the name
it's a bill you get
the 800 number
well yeah except no
one's gotten the bill
yet that's the problem
who you call collect
well we're polling
everybody that he's
called collect and
hopefully we'll have
we'll have a bill
from lock tell real
soon thanks for the
call there good
evening you're on the
air good evening
you're on
hello i'd like to
speak with um
speak with fiber
okay make it quick
here i am uh
yeah so i have
um i don't know
what to say i'm very
recent at this i just
dropped by the 2600
over new york
um
well you have about
10 seconds left and
you're 30
yeah i'm just telling
you yes knowledge is
power and unfortunately
we have a lot of
people in high places
that don't like us
that's all i can say
right now uh have a
good evening i'll see
you later okay okay
thanks for calling
bye
let's uh take another
call good evening you're
on
speak up please
what
go ahead you're on
oh um
yeah um
go ahead you're on
oh um
turn down your radio
yeah uh
new york magazine
oh don't say that
i hate new york magazine
that article was a piece
of garbage
really
yeah it was
it was written in
in cyberspeak or some
crazy thing like that
um which
which issue was it in
i didn't get to have a
chance
i don't think it's the
current one i think it
was last week's
so it's the one that
you you'll probably find
in dumpsters around the
city
okay
okay thank you very
much
all right
i don't mean to be so
hard on the press but
uh
oh no actually i take
that back i do
good evening you're on
yes hello
yes go ahead
yeah
well i have
i have a 950 number
i don't know if you're
familiar with those
uh yes
well um i dial out
from him and
i wanted to know if
they could be traced
from the number that
you're calling from
if if the actual
station can trace the
number that you're
dialing from
uh fiber what would
you say to this
i have some advice
uh do you know where
i am i think you
should stick to
sega all right
or maybe nintendo
all right thanks
all right good
advice there good
evening you're on
yes i'm i just
want to say that uh
fiber you're my
idol you're the
greatest and that's
it bye okay thanks
for calling good
evening you're on
uh yeah um if
you're in like london
england and you want
to get an 800 number
in america how can
you do it
uh rob you have a
suggestion on that
call an american
friend and have
him three-way you
you mean an 800
number here right
if you're in london
how can you get an
800 number you know
to call a company in
in in uh yeah i know
what you're saying so
in other words call a
friend in america and
ask him to but that
means you've got to
call a friend and ask
him to dial the 800
number or find out a
local number that you
can dial from there but
you can't dial 800
numbers unless they they
have a special 800
number over there a
special toll-free
number that is oh i
see and so it's
impossible then well it's
not easy okay you
can't do it with a
phone card or some
fiber any advice no
you can't do it with
a phone card like they
said the easiest thing
i could think of is to
call somebody in the
states and have a
three-way yeah sometimes
you can convince an
operator to transfer you
but it's very unlikely
that they'll do that
yeah okay okay guy
thanks for calling
good evening you're on
hey mark it's good to
hear from you again
uh two two quick
questions first did you
get all the letters that
um and the cards we
wrote at hope for you
oh sure yeah i'm glad
you got them i bet
that was some some good
reading second question
uh did you get any of
those cool looking
jailhouse tattoos
jailhouse tattoos no i
can't say that i have
i hope to see you on the
outside soon
okay thanks for calling
well yeah that's uh
that's a whole world that
you haven't looked into
yet isn't it
jailhouse tattoos um i'm
sure if you ask around
you'll find uh you'll
find a whole thriving
world there uh good
evening you're on
hi i can't believe that
someone as cool as a
fiber optic and you mr
goldberg would not know
the easy uh way to call
to 800 numbers in this
country from overseas
okay you're going to tell
us but you're going to
tell us in less than 30
seconds right
country that's a usa
direct as far as at&t
goes and they connect
only to at&t 800 numbers
uh call usa program of
uh mci they they don't
it can be any carrier or
sprint express you you
dial the special access
number in the country
uh-huh charge now you
have to you have to be
able to pay for it i
assume what the caller
meant by phone card was a
calling card so okay
wait if i can just
interrupt here first you
have to know what kind of
800 number it is what
company owns it no no oh
you don't so oh no only if
it's at&t uh where you call
um 0800 890 111 or 0011 uh in
print wait a minute i've got the
list okay we don't have time for
this i'm sorry because we have
fiber on the line so we have to
uh kind of pay attention to him
but uh this is the kind of
information we want to give out
future programs uh let's take one
or two more phone calls real
quick good evening you're on
hey manuel it's my little phone
bill hi how are you how's it
going mark uh i've seen better
days but uh in in less than three
months i'll see better days
that's right okay well best of
luck is is it just me or are we
getting a lot of boneheads
tonight uh i don't i don't want to
call people boneheads um but i
mean there are boneheads out
there i don't know if they're
calling us
certainly a lot of boneheads in
control i'll say that oh i didn't
make it to hope i'm sorry i missed
it oh it's too bad but uh there'll
be another one one millennia so
okay take care okay you have a lot
of boneheads there don't you mark
oh there's tons yeah it's where the
boneheads go is uh is is places
like uh where you are
there's plenty of boneheads like a
jobs here too uh-huh that's that's
true so those boneheads in the
audience that are looking for
something to do well i'm sure
there's openings have a future in
the bureau of prisons yeah okay
we don't want you to criticize
them too much because who knows
what they'll do uh but how about
some closing words for us here
and uh well i appreciate all the
mail that i've been getting from
people and uh i'm i'm really happy
that i was able to uh take this
opportunity to call and hear from
people on the outside
uh-huh and uh it won't be very long
now like i said it'll be less than
three months and i'll be home the
exact date if anyone's curious is
november 22nd okay well i'm sure
we'll be marking that on our
calendars and uh planning something
when's the party yes when's the
party i don't know well i don't
think i don't think you have a say
in that mark no that's true i think
that's something that we'll have to
decide on this end nice me yeah okay
well we'll think of something and
we're open to suggestion here uh
mark give out your address so people
can write to you okay it's uh my
name mark abene a b e n e my number
is three two one zero nine dash oh five
four and this is fpc as in federal
prison camp school kill s-c-h-u-y-l-k-i-l-l
and i'm in unit one and this is
minersville pennsylvania minor as in the
guy that digs for coal and not the
adolescent and not minerville yes and
not minerville was that a click no not
yet and the zip code is oh sorry i
forgot the p.o box the p.o box is 670
right and that's minersville pennsylvania
and the zip is one seven nine five four
dash oh six seven oh and what do you
want people to send oh just anything i
just like hearing from people it reminds
me that there's uh there's a world out
there that i'm missing while i'm here
yeah let's uh let's hear some of that
prison sound in the background can you
hold the phone up
okay
well it's kind of quiet there now i don't
know if you could really hear any no we
could hear it while you were talking but
we couldn't hear anything uh just now
oh well
no no fights or anything going on no
nothing like that okay well mark it's
great hearing from you hopefully we can
do this again
i'm surprised it took us eight months to
do it
live on the air but it's great hearing
you live on the air again thanks and
only a couple of months before we hear
you right here in the studio yeah i look
oh there's a magic click that's the
magic click and that means that we have
less than a minute uh on the phone with
you uh but we're out of time already so
we're gonna have to uh to sign off now
uh again thanks very much for calling in
and um keep in touch eh thank you okay
that's our program for tonight i want to
thank everybody who called in thank those
of you for listening
and we'll be back again next week for
another edition of off the hook till
then stay well and keep reading the
papers and don't be too pessimistic
stay tuned for a rebroadcast of the
wbai evening news
good night
i'll make a cough
it couldn't get much worse
but if they could they would
bon diddly bum for the best expect the worst
i hope that's understood
bon diddly bum
you