And this is radio station WBAI, where it's just about 10 o'clock, and that means it's
time for Off the Hook.
It couldn't get much worse, but if it could, it would.
Bon Biddley Bump was the best, expect the worst.
I hope that I've understood Bon Biddley Bump.
And a very good evening to everybody.
This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
Off the Hook is the program.
We're here until 10 o'clock.
I don't know, we're here until 11 o'clock.
We start at 10 o'clock, that's it.
And it had to happen eventually.
We all knew this was going to occur at some point in our lives.
Yes, the major music industry has taken note of the phone system, and there is now a song
out called Star 69.
R.E.M.
All I know about where I was at
I know all about where I was flying
I know he's what he's dead and she's wild
Thank you.
Advertisement, not in time. Press star 69. The phone rang. You rushed in to get it. A second too late.
No problem. Thanks to call return from 9X. Just pick up and press star 69. Or if you haven't given in and paid the blackmail fee for touchtone, dial 1169. You'll be connected to the last number that called you. And if the other line is busy, call return will keep trying incessantly for up to half an hour.
It even rings you back when the call goes through. Well, what good would it be if it didn't do that? I mean, come on.
And you can use call return anytime in most areas listed below. And listed below are area codes. 212, 516, 718, 914. You can use it anytime for just 75 cents per use.
So next time you're not in time, press star 69 to get back that call you missed.
Wow. I wonder what will happen if we dial star 69 here. Let's try. Let's see if we get back the last person who called us. Dial tone there, okay.
That's what we get. You know, I get that little tone. That little fast, busy thing. I seem to get that all the time, no matter what I try with 9X. That should be their theme song. Nice reorder there.
I got that tone with the newest feature that they're offering. This actually sounds like something good. It's called voice styling. Voice styling. For about five bucks a month, you can subscribe to voice styling.
And apparently, from the way they describe it, and please, if anyone out there has this, describe it to me, you pick up your telephone and you say, call Joe or whatever.
And assuming that Joe is in your database, it will call him immediately. Just by you talking to your dial tone.
Now, that's what the 90s are supposed to be all about. You know, high tech, no touch tone, no dials, nothing like that. Just speak to your phone and your phone obeys you.
So I went right out and I ordered it. I said, yes, that's what I want. I want star 6, not star 6, I want voice styling.
And to this day, it's been about a week now, they can't figure out how to give it to me.
They swear that it's possible for this thing to work. You see, I have this service, and I put that in quotes and italics and everything else you can put around it,
called IntelliDial, which I was recommending to people a couple of months ago.
It took 9x about maybe four months to get it installed. And then once they did that, things didn't work quite as well as they should.
IntelliDial is kind of like a mini PBX in your own home, where you can transfer calls from one line to another.
You can, well, that's about it, actually. There's not too much you can do with IntelliDial.
But some of the other features of IntelliDial include the following.
Caller ID, call return, repeat calling. You don't have to worry about all those because they don't work.
That's right. So if you pay for IntelliDial, you don't have to worry about buying other features because they're incompatible.
Nice, huh?
And so the way that you program voice dialing, you dial star 9-9. Star 9-9 to program it.
I'm not sure how you program it. They just say dial star 9-9 and everything is explained to you.
Well, the problem with that is that with IntelliDial, star 9 is how you put a call on hold.
So how is it going to know if you're dialing star 9 or star 9-9?
You know, I don't know, but they say, oh yeah, it'll definitely work.
Well, I'm still waiting, and we'll just have to see, won't we?
We'll keep people updated as far as how that goes.
Yeah.
Well, guess who has just joined us?
Hi.
It's Fiber Optic, live from Federal Prison. How are you?
I'm doing okay tonight.
Well, you're just in time, actually, because we're about to reveal our scandal.
Well, actually, there have been a couple of scandals.
Let me first of all talk about, well, there's been a big news item over the past couple of days.
In what is believed to be the largest fraud of its kind,
an MCI employee has been charged with stealing more than 100,000 telephone calling card numbers
that were used to make more than $50 million of long-distance calls, according to federal authorities.
You hear about this, Fiber?
Yeah, in fact, I saw it recently on the front page of a USA Today.
Wow.
See, you get that bastion of journalism out there, huh?
That's good.
That's good that they keep you updated.
MCI employee Ivy James Lay was, boy, what a name to go through life with,
was alleged to be the main supplier of stolen card numbers to an international ring of thieves
operating in Los Angeles and at least five of the U.S. cities, as well as Spain and Germany,
which, for those of you educated in public schools, that's not in the United States.
Yes, Secret Service, the federal agency that investigates interstate telephone fraud says
that this is all true.
The Secret Service investigation ended in Southern California on Thursday night
when agents seized numerous items from the home of an alleged co-conspirator,
which included six computers with pirated commercial copyrighted software
and thousands of calling card numbers stored on computer disks.
There's a big article about this today in the New York Times,
and they say how the major phone companies, MCI, AT&T, Sprint,
are trying to stop this kind of thing,
and one of the ways they do it is by reading the hacker magazines that are out there.
And you have to wonder, this guy was not a hacker.
This guy was a criminal.
He was a thief.
He just worked for MCI and stole calling cards.
What was particularly insulting was the article in USA Today
which said that the calling cards were being distributed to hackers
and being sold by hackers.
Oh, great.
Yeah, of course, we're out there all the time
just peddling our wares on the street, you know.
That's what we do.
It's amazing, though.
When you want to really criminalize somebody,
you just say that they do all these things.
And it doesn't matter if they don't do it
because people who don't know whether they do it or not
will just believe the person with the louder voice.
And unfortunately, the person with the louder voice
is usually the one having press conferences and making arrests.
And unfortunately, in your case, Fiber, that's exactly what happened.
Unfortunately.
Yeah.
Anyway, this guy, Lay, a switch engineer based in Charlotte, North Carolina,
was charged, arrested, and subsequently released on bail.
He faces felony charges of access device fraud
and could serve 10 years of convicted.
Now, when you were being threatened,
you could have served how many years of convicted?
I could have served a maximum of 10 years combined.
Oh, combined?
They weren't throwing the 55-year thing at you?
No, but my two charges carried,
they each carried penalties of 2 to 5 years.
So if you want to speak in maximums,
it would have been 10 years.
Wasn't there a point before that, though,
where they had a lot of other charges?
Well, I mean, the other charges in the indictment
didn't specifically concern me.
There were only really two from the indictment
that specifically named me.
Okay, they say this guy was known in the computer hacking community
as Night Shadow.
Night Shadow.
Night Shadow.
That's what they say he was known.
I've never heard of this person.
He allegedly devised special software
to trap calling card numbers
from a variety of local and long-distance carriers
coming across MCI's telephone switching equipment.
The card numbers were sold to other co-conspirators
who in turn sold them to computer hackers
in the United States and Europe.
This is according to the Secret Service, of course.
Of course.
You've got to believe what they say.
Well, why would computer hackers need to buy information
that anybody with a brain can get on their own anyway?
That's what I don't really understand.
It doesn't make much sense at all.
It's a typical example of where the real fraud comes from.
It comes from within many, many times.
Fifty million dollars.
Think of that.
Wow.
So before we get to our amazing scandal,
tell us what you're up to this week.
This week?
Let's see.
Obviously, I have to think about it.
There's so much going on all the time.
Just for your benefit, Fiber,
it's now October 1994.
Yeah, isn't it amazing?
I know sometimes you lose track in there.
Yeah.
But it's 1994, and fall is setting in.
It's almost a wonder to think that I'm in my tenth month here.
Yes, the baseball season is almost over.
The hockey season just began.
And the basketball season is about to begin.
Oh, you mean there's still basketball?
Well, they haven't started yet,
but they're going to start real soon, I understand.
I had heard that I think most of the other sports were on strike or something.
Well, that's what I mean.
Oh, no, no.
I didn't mean where they actually play the game.
I mean where they engage in labor negotiations.
Oh, okay.
That's what organized sports is now, labor negotiations.
Well, it's probably more exciting than that.
It is.
Oh, I think it's a lot more exciting.
I think it's something that we all need to get involved in.
It's how you learn about labor.
You know, millions of little kids are now going around saying they want to be labor negotiators,
and they want to walk on picket lines and things like that.
It's inspiring.
It really is.
Labor negotiator baseball cards.
That's right.
And this May 1st ought to be a really interesting day, I think.
Why is that?
That's the International Day of the Worker, you know.
It's where people will be coming out and celebrating with their heroes,
their favorite baseball players and hockey players
and all those other people that stand up for various causes and things like that.
But regardless, what's new with you?
Let's see.
Well, I don't really have all too many exciting things to say other than that
today some more of my mail got censored.
Obviously, they saw fit that I shouldn't get a magazine called Open Computing,
which tends to deal with Unix and networking and things like that.
And the reason was that, well, I don't know if I could explain the reason myself
because it really didn't make any sense at all
for someone that either knows absolutely nothing about computers
or someone that knows a lot about computers.
Sounds like a shakedown in there.
What's that?
I hear people yelling and screaming.
What's going on?
That's pretty much normal conversation.
Oh, okay.
No fights or riots breaking out?
Oh, no.
Okay.
Some people normally talk.
Just checking.
Yeah.
Okay, fine.
So they censored the Unix magazine.
Yeah, which right now is commonplace.
I don't seem to get too many computer-related magazines at all.
Since it kind of really doesn't pay to waste time saying what the reason was because basically
they picked something in the magazine that sounds conspicuous, like using Mosaic, which
for people that don't know, happens to be a graphical browser on the internet for accessing
all kinds of wonderful information about various things.
Okay.
And one of the reasons given in the letter was that in an article about Mosaic, it contained
technical information, detailed information about accessing a service on a host.
Oh, dear.
Obviously, this is a very threatening stuff.
Well, that kind of information in a prison, of course, could make you rich, I guess.
Yeah.
And, of course, the way all the letters end is that this is unacceptable, and that this
information constitutes a threat to the good order of the institution.
Yes, the good order.
Wow, that's something.
Well, I'm sorry you missed that.
You have a lot of things to read, though, when you get out.
And how many weeks is it now?
Well, come this...
What is it?
I think this coming week I'll have six weeks left.
Okay.
I think that's how it goes.
Okay, so we're getting set for that.
The seventh week and counting.
Okay, so it looks like November 23rd is your grand re-entrance here at BAI.
So we'll be keeping people updated as to that event as it comes closer.
And that's going to be great.
It's going to be the highlight of the year.
Oh, highlight of my year, anyway.
Yeah.
And you have another full month of it left after that.
Okay, so we have a scandal here.
And this scandal comes from the brand new edition of 2600, of which there is only one copy right now.
And I'm holding it in my hands.
I am told there will be more fairly soon.
Not for the meeting on Friday, though.
So those of you trekking in from foreign countries and things like that to get issues at the meeting won't be at this meeting because it just takes a while to print these things.
But we do have a scandal in here, and this is something that really kind of shocks me.
Well, actually, it doesn't really shock me, but it really gets me angry.
This concerns sharing of database information and just what they can do with that.
But this is something we've been looking into for a few weeks, and it appears that everything that we suspected about this is true.
What we're going to do is call up this 800 number, and we'll just demonstrate it for you, I guess.
Basically, it's a neat little service that allows you to order a catalog.
Sounds nice, doesn't it, Fiber?
Sure.
Yeah, everybody needs a catalog these days.
And so, by ordering this catalog, you enter your phone number.
Okay?
Okay.
Now, okay, I'm opening up the phone book here.
And I'm going over to the business section of the phone book.
Let's, okay, let's send this catalog to Walden Books.
All right?
They're on Broadway downtown.
And we have their phone number here, so let's call up and see what happens.
Here we go.
We have our dial tone.
We're calling up the number.
Thank you for calling the House of Windsor Collection.
If you would like to request a free copy of our catalog, please press 1 now.
If you would like to place an order, please press 2 now.
If you are calling from a rotary phone, please hold.
Okay, let's press 1.
Please enter the telephone number, including area code, of the household to which you would
like your catalog sent.
You have entered 2-1-2-2-6-9-1-1-3-9.
This is correct.
Press 1.
Otherwise, press 2.
This is correct.
Let me get Fibre back.
Fibre, are you there?
Yeah.
Okay.
Entered 2-1-2-2-6-9-1-1-3-9.
This is correct.
Press 1.
Okay, we've just entered a phone number, and we're saying it's correct.
2.
The mailing address for the telephone number you entered is...
57 Broadway, New York, New York, 1-0-0-0-6.
If this is correct, press 1.
Otherwise, press 2.
To repeat, press 3.
Okay, well, that is correct.
But it's pretty shocking.
That is the address of Walden Books downtown.
Have you ever heard anything like this, Fibre?
So, let me get this straight.
Basically, you entered in the phone number, and I've told you the address that it was going
to verify it was going to be mailed to.
That's right.
That's right.
And what's shocking about this is that it works for unlisted phone numbers.
Now, it's kind of spotty.
It works sometimes.
It doesn't work other times.
It doesn't work for some listed numbers.
It does work for a lot of unlisted numbers, and we have tried this out.
Let's try...
Did you fall off because we were entering touchstones?
Is that what happened?
In fact, our ultra-super-duper high-tech phone system here disconnects the person if it detects
multiple touchstones in succession.
Okay, that's kind of unfortunate because there's no other way to demonstrate this.
Is there...
Maybe if we enter them slowly?
That's possible.
Okay, let's try it.
Let's see what happens.
We'll dial nice and slowly for the benefit of the people listening in at the prison.
Okay, we're going to dial 9 first.
Then we're going to dial a 1.
And then an 8.
Okay.
Still here.
And now let's enter two zeros.
There.
Okay, we still got you there?
Okay.
Oh, he's gone.
Wow.
Okay, so we'll try it next time and see how quickly it takes.
Yeah, we'll give you the phone number, but we're going to make you sit through this first.
Thank you for calling the House of Windsor Collection.
If you would like to request a free copy of our catalog...
Okay, now we're going to enter the Walden Bookstore Uptown on Lexington Avenue.
Let's try this one.
Please enter the telephone number, including area code, of the household to which you would
like your catalog sent.
You have entered 2-1-2-2-4-9-1-3-2-7.
This is correct.
Press 1.
Otherwise...
All right, Farber, you're back.
Yeah, didn't like the zeros.
Okay, didn't like the zeros.
We'll have to be careful next time.
We're going to hit 1.
It's looking it up.
I'm terribly sorry we cannot assist you.
Please call 901-362-3770 to speak with a customer service representative.
Thank you for calling the House of Windsor Collection.
So, that particular bookstore, it did not have a number for.
Now, these are two bookstores, same company, same city.
One it has, one it does not have.
Let's give it a try to one more number here in the phone book.
Let's try...
What do you say we try Walt Disney?
Sure.
Okay, Walt Disney Company.
They're right here in 500 Park Avenue.
All right, we're going to dial ultra slow now.
We're going to see what happens.
We'll do the zeros one at a time.
How's that?
Okay.
All right.
Okay, first we're going to start with the 9 to get out.
All right, then the 1.
And now it's about time for the 8.
Okay, and instead of doing two zeros, we're going to do one zero.
Still there?
Yeah, I'm still here so far.
Okay.
Now we're going to try that other zero.
Ready?
Okay.
Here we go.
Still there?
Oh, I'm still here.
Okay, I think we have the system down here.
Now we're going to try the 4.
Still with us?
I'm still there.
Oh, great.
I hope the phone company takes this.
Now a 3.
Still going.
Good, okay.
I don't know if there's a limit to how slow you can dial.
Now another 3.
Keep going.
Okay.
One more 3.
So far, so good.
Okay, we only have three digits left.
Now a 2.
You know, I just thought we have to dial all those numbers when we call the thing, too.
Uh-oh.
Okay, and finally a zero.
I'm sure their computer isn't going to be as tolerant as the phone company.
Okay.
That's it.
Thank you for calling the House of Windsor Collection.
If you would like to request a free copy of our catalogue, please press 1 now.
Okay.
Please enter the telephone number, including area codes.
Yeah, I know.
This is going to be a problem, but let's try it.
2.
Okay.
1.
All right.
2.
Still with us?
Yep.
5.
Okay.
9.
Oops.
He's gone.
Okay, let's continue here.
5, 9, 3.
8, 9, 100.
You have entered 2, 1, 2, 5, 9, 3, 8, 9, 0, 0.
This is correct.
Let's see if it gets the address of the Walt Disney Company on 500 Park Avenue.
The mailing address for the telephone number you entered is...
500 Park Avenue.
New York, New York.
1, 0, 0, 2, 2.
If this is correct, press 1.
Otherwise, press 2.
Mark, are you back?
I'm back.
Okay, I can repeat that by hitting 3 so you can hear the address.
It's 500 Park Avenue.
The mailing address for the telephone number you entered is...
500 Park Avenue.
New York, New York.
1, 0, 0, 2, 2.
If this is correct, press 1.
Otherwise, press 2.
Oh, let's send them a catalogue.
Your catalogue will arrive in two to three weeks.
Thank you for calling the House of Windsor Collection.
Okay, so Walt Disney will be getting a catalogue courtesy of us.
Yeah, I think that's the only nice thing to do, don't you?
Maybe you could just make a list of all the people you need to get Christmas presents.
Well, now, what's interesting about this, you can test this out, you can see who it shows up to when you call the number and enter your phone number and you get a catalogue from House of Windsor.
Who is it addressed to?
Is it addressed to the person that gets the bill?
Is it addressed to the person that the phone is listed under?
You know, you should always keep different names, that way you know what's happening here.
But what we've been able to research here, this is something that, believe it or not, AT&T is offering.
Yeah, it's a database called InfoWorks.
And apparently House of Windsor is accessing this information.
Now, how does AT&T get the information?
They get it from the local phone companies.
So the local phone companies are sending phone numbers and addresses to AT&T InfoWorks.
And that's why it's kind of spotty, because sometimes they send it, sometimes they don't.
I don't quite know exactly how this works.
And they don't seem to be taking any precautions at all to keep it from being looked at by anybody.
Pretty shocking, don't you think?
Oh, definitely.
So if you have an unlisted phone number, you might want to try calling this number.
Again, the number is 800-433-3210.
And if you can find anything more about it, please let us know.
I mean, I found people's addresses.
It's very handy, you know.
If you're looking for someone's address, you just have their phone number.
Yeah, you can get it very easily.
But imagine, say, you had, like, your probation officer's phone number, but you didn't know where they lived.
Well, it would be very simple to use this system to track them down.
Very simple.
And there's so many systems like this popping up.
This is only one.
And you can tell by the voice synthesizer they have there, this is not one of the most advanced.
I mean, did you hear 500 Park AV?
He was trying to say A-V-E.
That's not exactly the height of sophistication there.
Are you at all surprised by this?
Am I?
Oh, well, I guess kind of, yeah.
The fact that it would actually have non-published numbers kind of surprised me.
Well, I sense that when we confront them with this, they're going to say, well, you're giving it the unlisted phone number.
We're not giving you an unlisted phone number.
And we never said that we were going to not give an address for an unlisted phone number if you give us the number.
I mean, that's a kind of roundabout phone company logic we've all come to know and love.
So you can very well expect that.
But do you want the culprits?
House of Windsor.
Actually, no.
No.
In order, your local phone company, AT&T, House of Windsor.
Okay.
Those are the people that go to to complain about this.
And it would be interesting to see what happens.
This is going to be in the next issue.
It's already been on the radio.
So let's see what the next step is.
Will we see more of these things, or will we see it put to sleep?
I hope the latter.
Well, I have a question.
What's that?
What type of products are in this catalog?
I don't know.
I haven't gotten mine yet.
I ordered mine more than two weeks ago, and I was hoping to see it by now to see who it actually got sent to,
because that will tell me something about what database they're accessing.
We don't know 100% for certain how this is working yet.
But we believe that the only real authoritative source of addresses and phone numbers would be a phone company computer.
So it stands to reason that that's how they're getting the information.
What's in the catalog?
I don't know.
Some sort of, I don't know, fashion thing or something?
I don't know.
I have no idea.
To tell you the truth, I think the name kind of rings a bell,
and I wouldn't be surprised if these are CD-ROMs that are being marketed.
CD-ROMs?
Yeah.
That are being, I have a number of computer catalogs, computer supplies,
and there's a number of CD-ROM outfits that are selling phone directories and reverse phone directories
on a bundle of CD-ROMs with monthly updates or yearly updates.
Well, you know, I think they would say we're selling CD-ROMs because, you know,
anybody can call that thing, and it sounds just like, you know,
a nice British woman giving out fashionable things.
Oh, I'm saying that the information.
Uh-huh.
Oh, you're saying the way they're getting the information.
Is that what you're talking about?
CD-ROM.
Oh, I thought you meant the company was selling CD-ROM.
Okay.
That's, yeah, I was wondering what you were saying there.
I was just looking it up on a CD-ROM when you enter in the phone number,
and then it's just reading back whatever address it has listed.
Well, yeah, that's interesting, except that those CD-ROMs are taken from phone books,
and phone books historically do not have unlisted phone numbers in them.
That's the reason I don't think it's using that particular database.
Hey, but I have to admit, though, I have seen CD-ROM sets that are not strictly from phone books,
but are taken from numerous sources and compiled.
Uh-huh.
And they are more expensive, but the fact remains that they exist.
Well, we have done a little bit of digging.
We do know these people subscribe to AT&T InfoWorks.
We don't know all that much about InfoWorks, but we intend to find out.
They're based somewhere in New Jersey, 908 area code,
and we've got some 2600 people sort of doing some investigations around that neighborhood.
Let's put it that way.
Okay.
So you want to take some phone calls?
Sure.
Okay, our phone number, as always, is 212-279-3400,
and that's the only line we take phone calls on,
so if you know any of those other funny lines, they're not going to be picked up.
So you can ring them as much as you like if you like the sound of a phone ringing,
but that's not going to do any good.
212-279-3400, the program is off the hook.
We have Phiber Optik live tonight from every night for the past several months
from School Kill Federal Penitentiary.
By the way, we did enter in your phone number earlier,
and it did not come up with an address.
Oh.
Yeah.
The amazing thing is this works nationwide.
Nationwide, all over the country.
You enter phone numbers.
You know, I have a feeling this number is going to be busy for quite some time
as people try different things.
We didn't get an address in the White House.
The other thing is you don't get addresses on any phone company numbers, I've noticed.
But a couple of modem lines run by major network providers returned addresses,
which I'm sure they don't want to have happen.
Oh, that's interesting.
Yeah.
Okay, let's take a phone call.
Good evening, you're on.
You must speak, though.
Okay, maybe I should have mentioned that.
When we take your call, you must speak to us,
otherwise it's kind of a waste for everybody.
Okay, let's try again.
Good evening, you're on.
Emmanuel.
That's good.
Quick questions.
Yes, go ahead.
Could you repeat that House of Windsor number?
You want me to repeat the number, huh?
You want me to repeat it?
Okay, fine, no problem.
Ready?
Yes.
1-800-433-3210.
Okay, one philosophical question for you.
All right, philosophical.
You talk about how Time Magazine and all these other big-time publications
refer to hackers, or refer to people who are really criminals, as hackers.
Right.
Well, the hacker world can, you know, people like yourself can change things for yourself
by just stop referring to yourself as a hacker, you know?
Define a new term.
Well, first.
You have to determine a separate definition for the word hacker.
What's going to stop them from, I mean, unless we start referring to ourselves as clergymen
or something, what's going to stop them from just simply labeling that word that we come
up with as criminals?
Well, it's just a way, on your part, to make an attempt to disassociate yourself from, you
know, any kind of, you know, confusion that they're creating, maybe.
Yeah, but, you know, historically, that kind of a thing causes a lot more confusion.
There were a group of hackers that wanted to label all the bad hackers crackers, and that
just simply made things very antagonistic, and, you know, hackers, as a rule, don't listen
to rules.
So, I don't think they're going to listen to somebody saying, okay, guys, from now on,
we're going to call ourselves this.
I know, but if it just becomes uncool to call yourself a hacker.
Right.
The thing is, I don't think it's uncool in most eyes, and unfortunately, for the wrong
reasons in a lot of times, a lot of people think that committing crimes is cool, and
that, you know, that's what hackers are all about.
It's not.
Yeah.
But, I don't know, I think the word still has some honor to it.
I mean, Fiber, do you still consider yourself a hacker?
Well, of course I do, but I think it's a ridiculous argument to make.
If someone's a mathematician, and a newspaper suddenly says that all mathematicians are ruthless
criminals, are all the mathematicians of the world going to get together and say, let's
call ourselves people who eat peanut butter?
Why change the name?
The name already is defined for, you know, for what it's worth.
Well, I agree with the caller, though, that the name has been pillaged quite a bit.
It's stigmatized it.
Yeah, it's, but that's the media.
Then again, we refer to the media as sort of the same thing.
There's a lot of good media out there, but when we say media, we always have that kind
of sneer in our voice and that hostile look in our eyes.
So, they sort of are getting the same effect of what they're doing to us.
Okay.
All right.
Thanks for calling.
Thank you.
Interesting point.
Good evening.
You're on the radio.
Yes.
I was setting up, I'm glad Fiber Optic's on the phone today.
First, I want to say, in my school, I wrote an essay about Fiber Optic's story, and my
teacher said, I don't think this could, I didn't, I didn't give credit to Fiber Optic
in my first draft, and my teacher said, oh, I don't think this could happen in real life.
And then, on my final draft, when I turned it in, I said, based on a true story, Fiber
Optic's now is in school, go to Pennsylvania, whatever.
Uh-huh.
Anyway.
How'd you do on the paper?
Oh, I said, it said excellent, very clever, whatever, and I got 100.
Hey, what do you think of that, Fiber?
Oh, I'm very flattered.
Sort of makes the whole thing worthwhile, doesn't it?
Yeah.
Hey, thanks for that.
Wow, that's great.
Congratulations.
All right.
What I wanted to say was, my friend and I were setting up internet access for the school,
our high school, and basically, well, we wanted to run a slip connection in to our LAN, and
we were wondering, is this possible?
I'm pretty sure it is possible, and my friend is even more sure, and he's done this.
In a different way for a larger organization, but is this possible?
It's definitely possible.
Yeah, it is.
Well, let me ask you the question.
What type of LAN is it?
What type of software are you running?
We're going to use, we purchased Novell Network 3.12.
Right.
And I'm familiar with that software, I've got it up and running, and we've got a bulletin board
running right now.
Right.
Well, unfortunately, I work mainly with Novell Unixware, but back when I was in high school,
we did have a network LAN running, but rather primitive network at that time.
But I do seem to recall something about a Novell Network Asynchronous Communication Server.
Basically, you could set up a machine on the LAN as a communication server, which is the software,
and connect multiple serial ports to this communication server, which could be accessed
through, you know, over network.
And what you could do is, this is controlled by the software itself, and I don't really
know the specifics, but you can run Slip, and you can connect a network LAN over Slip
to the Internet.
All right, well.
It's not something insanely complicated, and in fact, people do it frequently.
I saw a door program from my board that I could use almost as a door.
Yeah.
That you would just hook up to another terminal over the network, the local network.
Right.
And then in that, you'd have like a modem in the terminal, and I would use it that way.
But I wasn't sure that would work with a Slip connection.
Oh, you would need to buy something from Novell.
Yes.
You think I would?
Oh, yeah, definitely.
Yeah, you think that's the best way.
All right, well, I want to thank you guys for that, and I also want to say that the reason
a pledge amount was so messed up is because I pledged $17.
I remember when...
Ah, you're the one.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, we forgive you.
All right.
That's a good number, though.
All right, thanks a lot.
Thanks for calling.
Bye.
And thanks to all those people who did pledge.
We certainly do appreciate it.
Um, here's a fun thing for those of you that are tormented by telemarketers.
Uh, this is a contribution from a, an internet, uh, person.
Um, okay.
The premise is that telemarketers take the brute force approach to making sales.
If you talk to a whole bunch of people, someone will buy what you are selling.
The counter tactic to this is to waste as much of their time as you can.
For each minute that you waste, that means several potential customers will not be reached.
Make telemarketing unprofitable.
Hanging up only increases the changes for them to, the chances, rather, for them to make a sale.
So, uh, don't let this happen.
It's great fun.
The only way to beat the telemarketers.
I used to play this game a lot.
Uh, I'd let them do their whole spiel and then misinterpret what they were asking.
After being corrected, I would ask them to tell me the whole thing over again.
Less than 30 seconds interaction on my part between renditions.
After the second repeat, I would contend that this wasn't really a good deal as they had claimed that I could do better elsewhere.
They would insist their deal was the best, so I would ask them to repeat one more time.
Again, I only needed about 30 seconds of participation.
I could get back to reading the paper while they continued to blabber on.
After the third presentation, I would propose my own terms.
Sometimes they would get mad and hang up.
Sometimes I could get a fourth repeat.
I've heard that some of these folks are under orders not to hang up until they have been told no three times.
I never would tell them no.
Um, these days I don't have time for that game anymore, so I play a different game.
They call up and they say, this is Chris from so-and-so.
And you say, Chris, this isn't a good time for me.
Uh, if I could have your home phone, I'll call you back later when it's more convenient.
Uh, why do you want my home phone?
Well, so I can call you back at a better time.
Well, I don't give out my home phone number, but you have mine.
Is that fair?
And, uh, words to that effect.
What do you think, Fiber?
Uh, well, I am going to get cut off, but I won't call immediately back.
You got the click, huh?
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, we'll wait for you to call back.
Okay, be back in a flash.
Okay.
Um, and here's a point system for that same game.
Uh, you get five points each time you get them to repeat a question.
Ten points if you get them to talk louder or softer.
Forty points each time they ask their supervisor.
Fifty points if you can get them to laugh out loud.
Ninety points if you can get them to swear at you.
And five hundred points if they hang up.
Um, yes.
Welcome back.
Are you there?
Yeah, I'm back.
Okay.
Um, you know, I also wanted to try another phone number, too.
So this, uh, this won't be too bad because we don't have to enter any digits.
But somebody told me that, um, some, some religious group or some right-wing group is going around
and telling people to call up the Capitol building and, uh, voice their opinion and, and spout off a bunch of rhetoric.
Um, and what they did was they, they routed an 800 number to the Capitol.
Now, I'm not sure if this still works.
It was working, uh, a little while ago, so we're going to try it.
You, you game?
Well, I hope you'll exercise caution because now there are people waiting for the phone.
Okay.
I'll exercise much caution.
We'll dial slowly like we did before.
Okay.
And, uh, here we go.
First the nine.
Now one.
And now the eight.
Okay.
This is really silly.
Okay.
Now a zero.
We're dialing a 1-800 number.
We're doing it in special English for those of you that, uh, have just tuned in.
And one more zero there just went by.
Okay.
Now we're going to dial the first number of the exchange, which will be a seven.
Here we go.
There's a seven there.
Uh, the exciting part about this is we might be talking to the Capitol building real soon.
Here comes a six.
There it goes.
All right.
And, uh, the eight was just around the corner.
It's, it's coming up.
Three, two, one.
Here's the eight.
There it goes.
We got the eight.
Very good.
Now a series of three twos, which will space out evenly.
Home stretch.
Okay.
That's the first two.
The next two.
We can get a machine to do this for us, I bet.
Another two is coming.
Where is it?
There it is.
Okay.
And the last two is almost upon us.
Engine's mounting.
Here we go.
Last two.
That was the last two.
And the final number of the phone number is one.
So get ready for the one.
Here it is.
There's the one.
Okay.
Let's see what happens.
It's ringing.
It's ringing.
Capital.
Uh, hi.
I'm sorry.
What, which capital is this that I've reached?
Capital.
U.S.
Capital.
United States Capital in Washington, D.C.
Yeah.
Okay.
Thank you very much.
I didn't know this was the number.
Uh-huh.
Thank you so much.
Good night.
Well, it works.
How about that?
So if you dial 800-768-2221, you will reach the U.S. Capitol for free.
Courtesy of some sort of right-wing group here.
I understand it's the Traditional Values Coalition.
And they paid for a toll-free number so anti-gay supporters could call congressional members
and express their political views.
Well, nothing says that a certain 800 number must only be used by anti-gay people.
So, uh, 800-768-2221.
That's your link to the Capitol.
I always thought people should do this, you know.
People should have a toll-free number going somewhere for political purposes.
I'm happy to say that this group has taken my advice.
Ready for the next call, Fiber?
Sure.
Okay.
Good evening.
You're on.
Oh, hi.
Um, great show tonight.
A lot of fun.
A lot of information.
I call the Hans of Windsor, and even though I'm in the ghetto in the Bronx, they have me
listed, so...
Makes you feel warm all over, doesn't it?
Yeah.
Their pronunciation isn't as sophisticated.
So, like, they're using, what, a primitive Watson board?
What does that sound like to you, Fiber?
Uh, particularly, I don't know.
I wouldn't call myself an expert on voice boards.
This is a typical voice synthesizer.
You know, the guy that made those recordings, he must be raking it in now.
Okay, I have two questions, if you'll indulge me.
They range from moderately silly to very silly, but I think you'll enjoy them, okay?
Okay, as long as they don't get stupid.
Silly we can take.
Stupid none.
Um, no, not stupid.
Okay.
Um, with election time coming...
Well, I think there's been conspiracy theories about that ever since the first Sperry Univac was used to tally up votes.
Because they're talking about, like, some main computer in New York where it's very secret and there's no access to it and...
Well, you would expect it to be fairly secret with no access to it if it's an election result, wouldn't you?
Yeah, but, you know, I don't know.
But the person on the show made it seem ominous and, uh, like Big Brother was manipulating the election results.
Okay, here's the second question.
I hope you'll get a laugh out of this.
Do you foresee the day, maybe 50 years from now, 100 years from now, when the premise of the movie Weird Science would be a reality?
That's a tough one.
Computer-generated girl?
Well, 50 years from now, it's a possibility.
100 years from now, I can't see anything because I'd probably be dead.
You're a young kid.
And, um, listen, when you get out of jail, I'm just curious, like, what food do you most crave?
What food do I most crave?
Oh, uh, well, I'm tempted to say all food, but if I really had to make a choice, it would probably be along the lines of pizza, uh, most Italian food.
Very bad, like a giant cake in the shape of a computer.
Well, yeah, there'd be that, too, I guess.
But by pizza, I imagine you mean, like, you know, real New York-style pizza, right?
Oh, yeah, definitely.
Real, real pizza.
Not this Domino's or Pizza Hut.
Oh, no, no, no, it would have to be real pizza, definitely.
Yeah.
Okay, take care, guys.
Bye.
Okay, thanks for calling.
Yeah, well, we'll have to arrange something like that on your homecoming, which, uh, is coming just around the corner.
Hopefully.
It's, uh, just a little over a month away, so, you know, every week brings us a little bit closer.
You know, we're not on next week, though, because, uh, we're going down to Argentina.
Oh.
Yeah, it's, uh, it's a hacker conference in Argentina, believe it or not, and who knows?
Maybe this is the start of something new down there.
Uh, we'll just have to see.
Uh, we might be doing a live remote from there.
The computer show's going to be going two hours next week, so we might be coming in live from down there.
But we'll be back in two weeks, and, of course, uh, hopefully you'll be back in two weeks, too.
And the good thing about that is, two weeks from now, it'll be down to a month before you get out.
Yeah.
Well, don't forget your most important mission while you're in Argentina.
Which is what?
Which is to find out if the toilet water really does flush counterclockwise.
Okay, well, what I'm trying to find out right now is which way does it flush here,
because every toilet I've used just sort of sucks it all out, and it doesn't really go around in circles like it used to.
Well, here, uh, I get, I get the notion that it, that it is clockwise.
Clockwise.
Yeah.
I'm getting a nod.
Okay, clockwise, I think, is, is what it is.
Okay, there are some people that tell me that it's, that that's correct, that's a good assumption,
that, uh, it goes the other way.
Some people say I'm crazy.
Some people just don't even think about it.
I'm curious to know.
Yeah, I'm curious, too.
And, and one other thing I'm very curious about is the, um, the, the stars.
You get totally different stars down there.
Yeah.
Because, uh, everything appears to revolve around the North Star here, but they don't even see the North Star down there.
They see the, uh, the globular clusters and things like that, and the Southern Cross.
And that's, that's, that's kind of neat.
So hopefully I'll have time for the hacking business, but I am going to spend a lot of time looking at the sky.
Let's, uh, take another phone call here.
Good evening, you're on the radio.
Hi, it's me, Roman.
Hey, Roman, how are you?
It's amazing, I got through.
Yeah, well, you know, anything's possible.
You were over at the, uh, Unix Expo today, right?
Yeah, really busy.
Uh-huh.
A lot of people, huge.
Something like, uh, 700,000, I believe?
700,000.
Was that an exaggeration?
Number.
Okay.
Or like 40,000.
40,000, okay, I'm sorry.
Hi, hey, Mark, how are you?
Hey, sorry I couldn't be there.
Yeah.
Well, so, uh, how, how many more days does it go?
Tomorrow's the last day.
Tomorrow's the last day, and it takes place where, at Jacob Javitt's?
Jacob Javitt, uh, the convention area, yeah.
Uh-huh.
And is it easy to scam your way in for free, or do you have to pay?
Um, they actually look for badges, but, uh, unfortunately, I can't give them out anymore.
Yeah.
Well, you hit somebody over the head, you can probably slip in without much fuss.
They charge a lot of money.
It's $40.
Really?
Wow.
I did try, uh, my escape number on that 800 number, and it's not listed.
Yeah, we tried a couple of your numbers, actually, and for some reason, even numbers you've had
for a long, long time, it didn't, uh, didn't appear.
And they're listed in 411.
Yeah, so I don't quite know how this system is working.
Maybe somebody out there can, can help us.
By the way, this information originally came from a BAI listener, which just goes to show
the, the power out there, people that are looking for things like this.
So, by all means, investigate, find out more information, find more things like this, let
us know, and we'll spread the word.
And if anyone is going to Unix Expo, Escape does have a booth there.
Come visit us.
How's, uh, how's the turnout been at your booth?
Eh, we're in a weird location.
A weird location?
By the bathrooms, maybe?
Uh, no, not that bad.
No, that would be good, actually.
Bathrooms are kind of good, though.
That'd be very good.
I mean, you get people going out, though, you don't get them going in.
Yeah.
But, um, well, it's, it's an experience.
You know, I wish I could have been there, too, but, uh, things have been kind of crazy.
Hey, Mark, see you in a week, a month and a month.
A half.
Yeah.
See you soon.
All right, Ted.
Okay, take care.
Thanks for calling.
Good evening, you're on the radio.
Let me turn this down.
I got another number for you to reach, uh, your congressman and senator for free.
Another one?
Another one, yeah.
This is put out by a bunch of, uh, doctors, specialists who don't like the health, health
care possibility.
Well, they must be happy now, since it's dead.
Yeah, it's pretty dead, but the number still works.
Okay.
You can at least make them pay a little bit.
Yeah.
Uh, it's 1-800-756.
1-1-0-0.
You go through their voicemail, and it only works for your, for your two state senators,
and you can put any zip code you want for the congressperson, and they'll ratchet any
congressperson in Congress if you know the zip code for them.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
It's interesting.
Wow.
We'll have to play with that.
Yeah, you can play with it now if you want to.
You get a kick out of it.
Well, we'll play with it after, after Mark gets kicked off, because otherwise we'll get
kicked off.
We've got to have a party when Mark gets out.
Yeah, we are planning something.
So, uh, stay tuned for that.
Okay.
Well, one thing about the internet.
I tried to get on earlier, and I couldn't get this question in.
It seems like I'm just possibly maybe going to be able to get onto the internet soon,
and it sounds like maybe the best days of it are over when it was really a free worldwide
net.
Now it's turning into the home shopping club of the planet Earth.
No, it doesn't have to turn into that at all.
Well, uh, there are some, some outlets that will try to make it that, uh, some commercial
entities, but the net as, as a net, as an entity is, is still going to be there.
Uh, there might be a whole lot more people involved with it, but it's still there.
You've got to cut through the clutter.
Yeah.
They're having a hard time reconciling themselves to the fact that the original net people
are just not going away, and that that net attitude is just sort of staying there.
Good.
I'm glad to hear that, because I was concerned that, uh, that it's just going to be
become another commercialized, uh, like, cable TV.
Yeah.
All right, I'll let someone else get on.
Okay, thanks for calling.
What do you think about that, Mark?
Uh, I think, uh, in some ways it's good that the government thinks that it's going in that
direction, because they're ready to pour lots and lots of money into expanding the internet,
making it a lot better.
But the thing that they're forgetting is that all the people that have always been there
that never left are going to be the main people to benefit from all these new things.
Right.
And, uh, those people are going to hopefully inspire lots of new people, uh, to do the same thing.
Hopefully so.
It's, it's great.
You know, if, if the commercial entities had gotten involved in the net from the, from
the get-go, I hate that word, from the beginning, uh, they would have ruined it for everybody.
It would have been, like the guy said, a big shop at home.
Uh, but, uh, fortunately, the creative people got there first.
And it's kind of, it's kind of deep playing by those rules instead, which really don't involve
a lot of rules at all.
Okay.
You haven't gotten any warnings yet, have you, Mark?
Uh, not yet.
Okay.
Should be coming up in a few minutes.
In a few minutes.
Let's, uh, take another phone call.
Good evening.
You're on.
Hey, Mark and Fiber.
How you doing, man?
Hey.
Listen, um, I gotta get the hell off of CompuServe.
I'm trying to get onto the net.
I'm-
Sound like it's a, it's a drug you're addicted to.
Well, CompuServe is a real drag.
I don't have to tell you that.
Yeah.
Uh, that's true, it is.
How do you, how do you shop for a, uh, service provider?
I don't want to pay an arm and a leg, you know what I'm saying?
Well, there's, there's lots of them around.
Um, uh, maybe not lots, but there are, um, Unix systems around that are, I mean, like, like
Roman who just called in.
He runs a, a Unix system.
Escape?
I'm sorry?
With Escape?
Escape, yeah.
Uh, there's, uh, there's, there's ones like that.
I mean, Netcom is in the city.
They're big, but you don't have to get involved with all the, uh, all the garbage that, uh,
some of the other online services provide.
You can just have a, you know, a basic Unix account.
I assume that's what you want.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because with, uh, CompuServe there's too much frill, but you
can't get it to me, you know what I'm saying?
Right.
I suggest looking into either of those two.
All right, what's the name of, uh, um, that other, uh, uh, Roman's, uh.
That's, uh, Escape.com.
Escape.com.
I'll give you their phone number.
It's, uh, 212, if I remember correctly.
Hopefully I'm not giving you someone else's phone number.
Uh, 212-888-8780.
888-8780.
Also, very quickly.
Just ask them all kinds of questions.
Very quickly.
Can you give me the name of any primer, a good primer on phone systems that, you know, the
electronics and mechanics of telephone systems?
What's that one in Radio Shack, Mark?
Uh, I don't know if they even published that one anymore, but it was called Understanding
Telephone Electronics.
See if they have it in Radio Shack.
If not, we'll look somewhere else.
Do you think Lumpanix would have anything?
Uh, yeah.
The Lumpanix catalog probably would be a good bet to, uh, look for something like that.
Also, go to your public library.
Just look on the telephone.
Oh, I did forget it.
It's pitiful.
The library's pitiful.
Well, which library do you go to?
You can go to, uh, Barnes & Noble on 18th Street.
They have tons of telecommunications books.
Uh, Barnes & Noble.
Barnes & Noble.
The big Barnes & Noble on West 18th Street.
West 18th.
I'll check it out.
Yeah, I'll look them up in the phone book here and send them a catalog, too.
Thank you very much.
Thanks for calling.
And to Fiverr, I wish you, uh, Godspeed.
Thanks.
Looking forward to your getting sprung.
Thank you.
Okay, take care.
Yes, that Barnes & Noble is, uh, I'll do it later.
But yeah, it is on, um, 18th Street, 128 5th Avenue on 18th.
Yep.
That's their sales annex, according to this.
Okay, well, since you're going to get cut off real soon, let's, uh...
Here's the magic click.
Oh, you got the magic click already.
And you only get one now, right?
Yeah.
So, uh, you have a line of people there?
There's some people waiting, yeah.
Okay.
Um, well, if you can call back maybe in about, uh, 10 minutes off air.
Okay.
If it's possible, I should still be around.
Okay.
Uh, otherwise, we'll speak to you in two weeks.
And, uh, best of luck.
Thanks.
And, uh, give our best to everybody there that we've already talked to on the radio.
I sure will.
Okay.
Good night, everybody.
All right, take care.
Bye-bye.
It's Fiber Optic Live from, uh, Schuylkill Penitentiary in the prison state of Pennsylvania.
Let's, uh, close off, try out that 800 number the listener gave us.
See if we can actually wander around the voicemail systems of our elected representatives.
Oh, goody.
Thank you for calling the hotline on patient access to specialty medical care.
You can protect your right to choose your own doctor and to see a specialist of your choice
by selecting one of the following options at no expense to you.
Oh, goody.
If you'd like to speak directly to your U.S. representative's office, please press one.
If you'd like to speak directly with your U.S. senator's office, please press two.
If you'd like to fax a letter to your U.S. representative or U.S. senator, please press three.
If you would like to receive information about the importance of medical specialty care and
your right to select your own specialist, please press four.
Please press your choice now.
Sounds a bit opinionated to me, but I think I'm going to go for two.
Let's, uh...
Thank you.
Press one to speak with Senator Alphonse Diamato.
Yeah, that's the guy.
Two to speak with Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan.
Nah, Diamato, definitely.
We're sorry.
Ah.
Office you wish to contact is closed.
Please call back between 9 o'clock a.m. and 5 o'clock p.m. Eastern Standard Time.
Thank you.
Well, that's a bit of a disappointment there, but it does sound like it has possibilities.
I don't know about wandering around within the system.
It doesn't really sound like we can do that right away, but I imagine once you get into
their particular voicemail system, you know, where they say they're not in, which I'm sure
they do a lot, you just hit a zero or something and they can transfer around various places
in D.C. and leave messages for all the congressmen and just say hi.
Okay, that's it for tonight.
I want to thank everybody who called in, thank everybody else who was just listening.
As I said, we won't be back next week, but we will be back in two weeks and we'll be speaking
about the Argentinian hacker scene and I guess the results of the scandal we revealed tonight.
Again, that number is 1-800-433-3210 if you want to look somebody up, look yourself up or
various other things.
And if you want to reach senators and representatives, 1-800-756-1100 for the number we just called
now.
And the number that we called earlier, I'm frantically trying to look this one up, this is to reach
the U.S. Capitol, 1-800-768-2221.
A lot of information tonight, so more information on the way, rebroadcast of the WBAI Evening
News.
Thanks for calling in and listening.
I'll see you in two weeks.
Good night.
Good night.
Good night.
Good night.
Good night.
Good night.
Good night.
Good night.
Good night.
Good night.
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
3 to 5 a.m.
Hear the spoken word of Diane Atchivati live.
That's Friday night or Saturday morning, depending on whether you stay up or get up.
3 to 5 a.m. on 99.5 FM.
Commercial-free WBAI in New York City.
I'm Frederick Giavold.
It's Light Show.
That act of voting, which should have been just a secular political event,
turned out to be, and I think most people will say so, a religious occasion.
As part of the 92nd Street Y series facing the challenges of the post-Cold War world,
South African Archbishop and Noble Laureate Desmond Tutu will appear on Tuesday, October 11th at 8 p.m.
The program will take place at Congregation Rudolf Shalom, located at 7 West 83rd Street, off of Central Park West.
Bishop Tutu will be interviewed by James Hogue, followed by questions from the audience.
The bishop will also sign copies of his new book, The Rainbow People of God, The Making of a Peaceful Revolution.
That's Tuesday, October 11th, 8 p.m. at Congregation Rudolf Shalom, located at 7 West 83rd Street.
For tickets, call 212-996-1100.
That's 212-996-1100.
Let's get ready to rumble!
New York is on the edge.
The legal aid strike, the chronic fiscal crisis, and now the battle for HHC.
Mayor Giuliani's budget cutbacks and proposals for privatization threaten the Health and Hospital Corporation,
which provides health care for New York's poor and working class.
But coalitions of unions and community groups are fighting back.
Join Building Bridges, your community labor report, for a special on the cutbacks and the fight back,
the battle for HHC, on Thursday, October 13th, from 8 to 9 p.m.,
over listener-sponsored non-commercial radio WBAI, 99.5 FM.
That's Thursday, October 13th, from 8 to 9 p.m.
The House of Montezuma, through the shores of Tripoli,
we will fight our country's battles in the air, our land and sea.
We're to fight for right and freedom, and to keep our honor clean.
We are proud to claim the title of United States Marine.
Weaponry will present, on Tuesday night, October 11th and 18th, at 1.30 a.m.,
an examination of the invasion and occupation of Haiti by the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps from 1915 to 1934.
So tune into Weaponry, only heard on listener-sponsored WBAI Radio, 99.5 FM in New York.
Hi, I'm Barbara Nimry-Aziz, co-producer of Tahrir, Voices of the Arab World,
heard every Thursday morning here on WBAI.
We've been searching for Arab humor for a year now, not to mention preceding centuries,
and we think we've found it in the voice of Emily Shahadeh.
So join Emily Shahadeh, Dave Hall, and me this Thursday at 9 a.m.
on Tahrir, Voices of the Arab World.
That's at 99.5 FM, listener-sponsored radio in New York.
Ed Menger here.
Now listen, I've been pretty busy lately, so I just dropped by to tell you to join me and Ken for the next Nuff Said.
With us this time will be Scott McLeod, writer-artist of the award-winning Understanding Comics,
which even got raves in the Times book review section.
Whether you've never read comics, or you're an avid fanboy, this one promises to be interesting and informative.
Nuff Said, Tuesday overnight, October 11th, 3.30 to 6 a.m. on Alternative Radio, WBAI, New York.
At some point in your life, you're probably going to visit a public hospital.
Over a million New Yorkers do every year, seeking help for themselves or a loved one.
When you get there, you'll realize that while the people who work in public hospitals are skilled, caring professionals,
the hospitals themselves are underfunded and understaffed.
You'd think New York would want to improve its health care, but Mayor Giuliani wants to give public hospitals to private institutions,
which don't have the money to hire staff or make improvements.
So by the time you get to a city hospital, things may be much worse.
That doesn't have to happen.
We're the Committee of Interns and Residents, a union of doctors who work in city hospitals,
and we know that all New Yorkers can have quality health care if the city supports its hospitals.
That's what we want for the future.
Someone should ask Mayor Giuliani what he wants.
For more information, call us at 1-800-CIR-8877.
Good evening.
In the news tonight, it took a U.S. military invasion to begin separating the Haitian police from the Haitian military,
but now some U.S. Congress members want to use U.S. military troops to fight street crime here at home.
We have the story of what some are calling a shocking decision by the Supreme Court of Canada.
And in New York, a meeting of the Police Civilian Complaint Review Board turns into a near riot.
With these and other stories, I'm Jose Santiago in New York with Verna Avery-Brown in Washington,
and this is the news for Wednesday, October 5, 1994.
First to Washington for the Pacifica National News.
President Clinton today unveiled more assistance for South Africa, including $500 million for new housing for black townships.
Clinton also commented on the situation in Haiti.
I'm very committed to continuing on the course we're on.
That's all I know to say.
I feel very good about where we're going.
I think we'll wind up in a good place.
Green Berets today took control of a military garrison on the north coast of Haiti
that had been a stronghold for Haitian paramilitary forces.
In Port-au-Prince, Raul Cedras and Philippe Biambi today attended the funeral of 10 Haitians killed by U.S. Marines in a firefight last month.
The third coup leader, Michel Francois, has told Dominican officials that he plans to stay in the Dominican Republic.
Francois and his family are on tourist visas, which are renewable every three months.
Defense Secretary William Perry today outlined the tougher NATO policy aimed at pressuring the Bosnian Serbs to accept a peace plan.
Perry says NATO agreed unanimously that airstrikes should be made in a timely manner.
They should be made in a matter of minutes after the provocation, not hours or days.
Secondly, they should be launched without tactical warning in contrast to the way they are being handled now.
And third, the aircrew should have multiple targets to select from in the mission.
Perry says the NATO airstrikes would be launched only after receiving a request from U.N. forces.
In South Carolina, the all-male state-funded military college known as the Citadel today submitted its plan for women who want to become cadets.
It basically says, attend another school.
The Citadel plan would pay for women to attend two private colleges,
and the women would have to join the ROTC program at the University of South Carolina.
The case of Shannon Faulkner, the woman who sued to attend the Citadel,
is on hold until after the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals hears the case.
Another day in the trial of anti-abortion activist Paul Hill, Don Parker filed this report earlier today.
The federal government is one witness away from resting its case against Paul Hill.
Hill is being tried for violating the federal access to abortion clinic laws in federal court in Pensacola, Florida.
Dramatic testimony from a survivor of the July 29th shooting incident at the ladies' clinic.
June Barrett sat poised and calm as she testified that she hit the floor when the shooting started.
The 68-year-old woman escaped with a minor arm injury.
When asked to point out who did the shooting, she said three times it was Paul Hill who pulled the trigger.
Hill did not cross-examine Mrs. Barrett.
He hasn't cross-examined any of the 24 witnesses.
Later today, Hill will act as his own lawyer, and he can call defense witnesses.
For Pacifica Network News, this is Don Parker in Pensacola, Florida.
California's Attorney General Dan Lundgren says he plans to appeal yesterday's ruling preventing executions in the gas chamber.
A federal judge had ruled the gas chamber was unconstitutional because it was cruel and unusual punishment.
In Florida, Democratic voters chose President Clinton's brother-in-law as their candidate for the U.S. Senate.
Hugh Rodham will be facing Republican incumbent Connie Mack in November.
In May, the Lake County Florida School Board passed a policy forcing schools to teach that American culture is superior to any other.
Apparently, that controversial policy did not sit well with the voters.
In yesterday's election, more moderate candidates beat three Christian conservatives by a two-to-one margin.
A handful of relief workers have returned to a Rwandan refugee camp in Zaire.
The workers pulled out last Friday after Hutu gangs took control of the camp and death threats were made against foreigners.
Now, a skeleton staff of aid workers are back after Hutus agreed to certain conditions.
Among the four demands, no machetes allowed at food distribution points and an investigation into the threats as well as last week's killing of a Rwandan scout leader.
And those are the stories topping the news.
The military coup leader who helped conduct a campaign of murder, rape, and torture in Haiti for the last three years
was visibly grief-stricken today at the funeral of ten Haitians killed by U.S. Marines in a firefight.
A teary-eyed Lieutenant General Raul Cedras buried his head in his hands as he and Brigadier General Philippe Biambi
stood near the flag-draped coffins in the courtyard of a military hospital.
About one-third of the attendants were uniformed Haitian soldiers or police.
Conspicuously absent from the service was the third in the military troika, Police Chief Michel Francois.
Francois fled the island before Daybreak Tuesday to the Dominican Republic.
There were also no U.S. troops at the funeral.
They were busy patrolling the streets of Port-au-Prince in search of weapons and military attachés,
civilians who teamed up with the military during the coup.
Democracy activist Jane with the Haiti Information Bureau spoke with us from her Port-au-Prince office
where she's now conducting business in a more above-board fashion.
According to Jane, democracy activists are enjoying a newfound freedom,
and Francois' hasty departure contributed to that.
Well, I think that's part of it.
It makes more of a symbolic difference than a real difference, of course,
because the people who worked under him and the people who worked above him are still here.
General Sedras is still here, and most of the army still has its guns,
and so does most of the paramilitary structure.
But it certainly does make a psychological difference,
because he was really demonized locally and also by the international press.
So the fact that he sort of hightailed it across the border,
and reportedly, not alone, reportedly 10 other officers of some rank,
I don't know which rank, went with him,
that does make a psychological difference.
I would say that there's a little bit, we feel everyone has a little bit more freedom of movement,
and people are talking about when are we going to organize this meeting and that Congress
and this conference and that seminar.
So that's definitely a good feeling.
U.S. Embassy spokesman Stanley Schrager seems to think that Francois' hasty exit
will hasten the departure of Raul Sedras and Philippe Biombe.
How do you see it?
Well, I think that's definitely possible,
but it's hard to take anything out of the mouth of Stanley Schrager with too much seriousness,
because one day he'll say one thing and the next day he'll say another.
For instance, three days ago, he gave a big interview on the radio
where he talked about this paramilitary group, FROP,
as a terrorist organization responsible for all the violence, blah, blah, blah.
And yesterday he hosted a press conference using U.S. troops as security
and with U.S. equipment, a press conference for FROP,
and he sat basically with the head of FROP as FROP announced that it was now giving up arms
and was going to become a political party.
So a lot of things are still unclear about how things are going to settle down here.
I don't think that we can say that we're sad to see Michel Francois go,
although, of course, in a more just world, he would be put on trial for his crimes
going back to before the coup d'etat.
The fact that he can go over to the neighboring country where his family was waiting,
and we know that he certainly has made millions, if not tens of millions of dollars over the last three years.
The fact that he can now enjoy a life of luxury, it's not the most just resolution.
But I think it does make a difference, and I think it does put the pressure on Cedras and Biambi to follow suit.
There are reports today that the U.S. military says they have seized 4,000 weapons and 95 people,
many of them attachés, have been detained.
Is that enough to prepare the climate and the environment there for Aristide to return?
Well, I think it's a good start.
Of course, no one has seen the guns.
We have to take the U.S. word for it, but people have reported from their different neighborhoods,
you know, troops digging into the graveyard, for instance, in Petronville,
and pulling up two coffins full of weapons.
Yesterday, or I think it was last night, at the home of a pastor,
some kind of a Protestant pastor, who was associated with Duvalier.
Today, his home was raided, and tons of weapons were found.
You know, I think the estimates of how many weapons are in the hands of people who do not favor democracy
vary between 30,000 or 50,000 to up to 300,000.
So 4,000 isn't, you know, isn't going to guarantee security.
But I think it's a start, and I think it's the psychological aspect which is important.
Because if I am a bad guy who has an Uzi in my house,
and two or three weeks ago I could act with impunity and go down to the corner store
and shoot a few people and rape people and steal the money,
I don't feel like I can necessarily do that this week.
But I still have my gun, and when those troops go away
or when things calm down a little bit, I could potentially start up again.
So 4,000, you know, guns, it's a start.
But there has to be a real reformation of the structure of the army and the police,
and they have to be placed under civilian control,
under the control of the constitutional government.
And that's what will make the big difference.
Jane with the Haiti Information Bureau in Port-au-Prince.
Thank you.
When President Clinton sent U.S. troops to Haiti,
the stated goal was to bring democracy to the terrorized Caribbean nation.
And one means to that end is the plan to revamp the Haitian military and police forces,
to sever the links between the two and bring them both under civilian control.
But at a time when Haiti is breaking the bonds between its military and police,
the U.S. may be making them stronger.
There is a move afoot to make it easier for local police to use the National Guard
to help in the war against crime.
It's happened in several local jurisdictions already,
but some members of Congress are looking into changing federal law
to get the military into police work.
Pacifica's Mark Beavis reports.
New York Democratic Representative Charles Schumer chaired today's hearing
of the Subcommittee on Crime and Criminal Justice,
and he seems very impressed with efforts to bring the National Guard into police work.
Let me tell you my perspective on this,
and that is that we have this huge problem of crime in our streets,
that we don't have enough local and state resources,
that the 100,000 cops is a great step, but still not close to enough.
And so what I'd like to explore is how we can expand the role of the Guard.
Several municipal governments and local communities have been so overwhelmed
by violent crime that they've asked for National Guard assistance.
There's a federal law called the Pase Comitatus Act
that forbids the use of federal armed forces to do local police work,
but the National Guard's a bit different,
because even though those forces get a good chunk of federal funding,
they're still under the control of each state's governor.
A deputy assistant attorney general testified today
that with some amending of laws here and there,
the National Guard could be used to fight crime.
He said it would be up to each state to decide whether to use the Guard as police,
but in any case, he recommended extensive police and legal training
for those troops involved.
The director of the Army National Guard, Major General John DeRouge,
isn't crazy about the idea.
Any consideration of any proposals to expand the scope of federal funding
for use of the National Guard by the states and domestic law enforcement
should take into account the inherent limitations of federal and state constitutions
and of state law and the American tradition of aversion
to use of military force against civilians,
except in cases of most urgent need.
Since the early 1980s, the National Guard has been working with the Drug Enforcement Agency
in its war on drugs, but only in a supporting role.
National Guard troops do vehicle and container inspections
and analyze law enforcement data.
But in the past few years, local governments,
for example, Sumter, South Carolina, Phoenix, Arizona, and Puerto Rico,
have used the Guard to actually assist in police crackdowns.
Puerto Rico's program has gained national attention
because not only do National Guard troops take part in the initial crackdown,
but they stay on for several weeks to patrol the area.
The Commonwealth's governor, Pedro Rosselló,
described his program to House Subcommittee Chair Schumer.
The Guard has the responsibility of securing the perimeter,
both ground and air,
assists the police,
but do not participate in any of the searches or the arrests.
But would they accompany the police down the hallways of the project?
Yes, they would.
Okay, good.
During that phase two,
the National Guard remains on site
with the police,
securing the residential area.
During that period, which is the phase two,
it's a period of several weeks,
we provide for controlled access to the neighborhood.
Civil libertarians fear using the National Guard
can only result in the erosion of civil rights.
But Governor Rosselló testified today
that his program has a 90% approval rating on the island,
and any case brought against it in court has been thrown out.
But Nekichi Taifa,
Legislative Counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union,
has a different story.
According to Judith Birkin,
chair of the Puerto Rican Bar Association's
Human and Constitutional Rights Committee,
These abuses have included
the routine detention of these residents without cause,
the searching of apartments and people without search warrants,
and excessive use of force.
Searches of individuals have included
searches of children's school bags and lunchboxes,
and even a baby's pampers.
Doors have been broken down.
There have been unwarranted inspections of automobiles
solely on the basis of presence in a housing project.
Taifa argues that while using the National Guard
may make a politician look good as a crime fighter,
there are other ways to solve the problem of violent crime
other than eroding constitutional rights.
David Capel with the Cato Institute agrees.
Virtually every item of the Bill of Rights,
you could say if we got rid of this,
we would be safer in the short run,
and we would be.
But the very reason we have these constitutional rights
and values, including the one against the use
of a standing army in law enforcement,
is because the authors of the Constitution
understood in the short run,
you would be safer by giving the government more power.
But in the long run,
the more power you give the government,
particularly with the federal government,
the more dangerous it is in the long run.
And that's why Benjamin Franklin said
people who trade a little liberty for security
will achieve neither.
Observers don't expect any congressional action
on this issue for the rest of this term.
But civil libertarians fear that beginning next year,
when the new Congress takes its seat,
the idea of putting soldiers on our streets
to fight crime will return.
Mark Beavis, Pacifica Network News, Washington.
A Canadian Supreme Court decision
has whipped up a storm of protests
from women's groups and others across that country,
and Canada's Justice Department
is now looking into getting the ruling overturned.
By a 6-3 vote,
the Canadian High Court said that
drunkenness can be used as a defense
in sexual assault cases.
Pacifica's Don Rush reports.
The case involved one Henri Davial,
and he was found guilty of sexually assaulting
a 65-year-old woman in a wheelchair.
But Canada's Supreme Court ordered a new trial.
The reason? Davial was not allowed to argue
that he was so drunk
that he was not responsible for his actions.
That brought a clamor of protest
from those such as Deborah Gray,
a member of the Canadian Parliament.
I was just astounded,
first of all, as a Canadian citizen,
and secondly, as a legislator.
I just find it appalling
how the Supreme Court can make these decisions,
and even though it is a specific case,
as they say,
to me it's just inexcusable.
There is no reason,
there is never any reason
why too much alcohol in your system
would be excusable under any circumstances.
It's just as simple as that.
In short, she said,
drunkenness has now become
a legitimate excuse for rape,
but not everyone agrees.
Totally unfounded,
and, you know,
pardon the expression, ridiculous.
Giuseppe Battista is Daviel's attorney.
The Supreme Court specifically states
that intoxication,
you know,
someone even very drunk,
extremely drunk,
would not be able to raise this defense.
What we're talking about here
is such a narrow state.
Very, very few people
can in fact be in such a state.
Daviel said he had consumed
seven to eight bottles of beer
and a 40-ounce bottle of brandy
before the alleged attack.
As a result, he said,
the drunkenness made it seem
as if he were sleepwalking
or temporarily insane.
Daviel went on to argue
that he could not remember the incident
and therefore could not form
the necessary criminal intent.
Lee Lakeman is with
the National Action Committee
on the Status of Women
and works in a women's crisis center.
She's not buying any of it.
It's difficult for me to imagine
how a man can be so drunk
that he can be excused
from the responsibility
of making a human decision
and at the same time
be physically capable
of carrying out rape.
At the trial,
the woman testified
that Daviel knocked her
out of the wheelchair
and forced her into her bedroom
where he allegedly
sexually assaulted her.
The Canadian Supreme Court
emphasized that the burden
of proof in the drunkenness defense
would fall upon the defendant.
As such,
a court official added,
it could only be used
on rare occasions.
The official also noted
that there are similar laws
in Australia and New Zealand,
but less than 1%
of this type of defense
is successful when used.
The two women
on the high court,
by the way,
voted with the majority.
Nonetheless,
the government is looking
into legislation
that would overturn
the court's decision.
Again, Lee Lakeman
with the National Action Committee
on the Status of Women.
It's also known to us
that the federal government
is responsible,
not the courts,
but the federal government
is responsible
for drafting law
about whether or not
drunkenness is an excuse.
And clearly,
this sends a message to us
that the courts think
it's the federal government's
responsibility.
And we're saying,
whoever's responsibility it is,
could you get on it?
Originally,
D'Aviel was acquitted
by a local Montreal court,
but the Canadian appellate court
reversed that decision,
sentencing him
to a year in jail.
Here in the United States,
impairment by alcohol
or drugs
has often been used
in criminal cases
where the defendant
must form the necessary intent.
But there are trends
moving in the opposite direction,
particularly in the area
of civil litigation.
Rosemary Dempsey
is with the National Organization
for Women
and the owner of a bar.
Pacifica talked with her
while she was traveling
on a train.
People are very much more,
have gotten very responsible
in this country
because of the higher level
of accountability
in recent years.
First of all,
bar owners are very, very,
have to be very responsible
in monitoring what people drink
and people themselves
because of the increased
responsibility that the law demands
of them have become
much more responsible.
Don Rush,
Pacifica Network News,
Washington.
And you are listening
to the WBAI Evening News.
I'm Jose Santiago
in New York.
In local news,
police in New York
arrested a gay activist
today during a heated meeting
of the Police Civilian
Complaint Review Board.
The arrested man
accused of an attack
on board member
the Reverend Ruben Diaz.
The board had just refused
to consider reinstating
former board member
Tom Lim,
who was recently fired
by Mayor Rudolph Giuliani,
a firing many believe
was in response
to Lim's opposition
to Diaz,
who has been accused
of making numerous
homophobic comments.