Allí nos vemos, 212-279-0707.
The Midnight Reboot, where every show is a special.
And it's just after 10 o'clock.
You're listening to radio station WBAI in New York.
And it's time for Off the Hook.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
It couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
Bum-Ding-Ding Bum for the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood, but Bum-Ding-Ding Bum!
Bum-Ding Bum.
And a very good evening to everybody.
This is Off the Hook, a program about technology, computers, telephones, privacy, Big Brother, and all that kind of fun stuff.
And tonight is a very special night.
We are currently set up in Columbus Circle, ready to start the Fiberoptic Homecoming Parade,
which will eventually land him right here in the WBAI studios.
Fiberoptic having been locked up in federal prison for 10 months now, since that cold day in January,
where we dropped him off in School Kill, Pennsylvania.
Pennsylvania being the prison state.
And there are being over 1 million prisoners now in this country.
It's amazing what's going on out there.
And so, for Fiber, before we actually start the parade, and by the way, if you are in New York City,
you might want to rush to Broadway now.
I just passed by.
They put up the police barricades for us and everything.
It's very nice.
All these parade preparations.
I wasn't really expecting it.
But just run over there, and very soon you will see Fiberoptic go by in the 2600 van.
And he'll be seeing the streets of New York for the first time in almost a year.
But before we cut over there, a special dedication for Fiber.
This is a song that goes out to him from Neville Staples, a.k.a. Judge Roughneck.
It's called Rude Boys Out of Jail.
Great.
Okay, well, now you guys are actually going to start moving now.
Yep.
Okay.
I know the people of New York are impatient.
They don't want to be standing out in the cold.
It was snowing today.
You must feel great about that.
Yeah, actually, I was really glad that the snow didn't start while I was still there
because that would have been really depressing.
Uh-huh.
I remember when snow used to be cheerful.
Yeah, well, it's not cheerful when you're shoveling it or snowblowing it for two months straight.
That's true.
Yeah, or it's a day.
All right, now, you've been in the free world now for about 24, 36 hours or so?
Yeah, almost two days now.
Yeah, and what are your impressions?
Have things changed?
Certain things have changed, and a lot of things have stayed the same.
Like, I rode the subway for the first time today, and it looked exactly the same.
But other things that you wouldn't think about, like when I first got back to my neighborhood,
everything looked small.
Like, the houses looked smaller, and just everything seemed smaller, like I grew or something.
Uh-huh.
Which was really peculiar.
It was a very strange feeling.
Well, I know that happens when you go away from your childhood neighborhood and you come back as an adult,
but I don't know if that happens in 10 months.
No.
I don't really know what it was.
It was just really weird.
I guess it just seemed unfamiliar at first.
Uh-huh.
Are you guys moving yet?
Uh, no.
You're about ready?
Yeah, let's get this thing underway.
Okay, we're going to start moving now.
Uh, see if they can honk the van's horn.
Let's see if we can hear that all the way up here.
It's the intermittent horn.
It honked once.
Now it's not working.
Okay, there's been a problem with the van's horn.
It honks sometimes.
It honks when it feels like it.
People are looking at us.
People are looking at you.
Well, that's to be expected.
There you go.
There it is.
Or is that someone honking at you?
No, that was us.
Okay, so right now you're in the van and you're coming down Broadway.
Oh, we will be soon, as soon as the red light changes.
Oh, yeah, of course.
We will be respecting all traffic laws.
Of course.
As required by law.
Tell us something about what you see as you come down Broadway.
Okay, here we go.
We're moving.
All right.
Yellow cabs.
Lots of yellow cabs.
Lots of yellow cabs.
Oh, police lines.
Do not cross.
Yeah, they put those up.
I haven't seen one of those in I don't know how long.
That's to prevent the crowd from getting too close.
Oh, transit police car.
Look at that.
That's probably for our protection, too.
Now, there's a whole lot of people in the van with you, right?
Yes, there is.
Why don't we ask them to make some noise?
Let's hear some cheers for Fiber.
Everybody, make some noise.
Okay, that's pretty impressive.
Okay, so you've gone through the light now.
Yes, we're moving along.
You'll be passing through Times Square pretty quickly.
Where are we?
We're at West 55th Street.
We're not quite at Times Square yet.
Okay, but soon you will be.
Yeah.
And if there are people on Broadway right now, you're encouraged to...
Hey, it's The Late Show with David Letterman.
Oh, there you go.
You're encouraged to follow along and beep your horns and wave.
There's the horn.
All right.
There you go.
So, is it like you expected when you got out?
No, actually, everything's really strange.
It's like...
It's almost as if I was dropped on the planet by a flying saucer.
And I'm, like, seeing everything for the first time.
By the way, I should point out that FiberOptik is on a cellular phone,
and that means that those of you with scanners out there can probably hear this conversation
either on 99.5 FM or somewhere up in the 800 megahertz spectrum.
So, it's your choice.
I have a question.
Yes.
This is the first time I can remember using a cellular phone,
and I'm not going to get a brain tumor or anything.
Wait a minute.
You, FiberOptik, have never used a cellular phone?
Well, it's a really interesting story, but actually, I never got involved in cellular phones.
I'm sort of the same way.
I think at this point in time, they're entirely too high-priced,
and they just don't really provide that much benefit for the dollar.
Right.
You know, the signal is terrible for the most part.
Well, interestingly, when I first heard about mobile phones and when I first got interested,
or at least thought I was interested in them, there were no cell phones yet.
It was the Improved Mobile Telephone Service, IMPS.
Uh-huh.
And I had met some people that knew a lot about mobile phones and things,
except the phones themselves back then were expensive, and those were only mobile phones.
So, it was always the price range that kept me at a distance from the whole thing.
Right now, cellular phones are a little too much geared towards businesses and not towards consumers.
Right.
I keep hearing that's going to change, that there are going to be many more frequencies opened up,
and everybody will have a personal communication device of some sort.
We'll just have to see.
That will happen in the next couple of years, hopefully.
Yeah, well, actually, I've been reading that the FCC is, at this very moment, auctioning off the spectrum.
Uh-huh.
To PCS companies.
Yeah, they started that a few months ago.
Right.
Where are you now?
Right now, we are 49th Street.
Okay, so not quite at Times Square yet, so those of you waiting in Times Square, let's be a little bit more patient.
Let's try and stay calm here as fiber optic passes by, and it's really quite an event here.
You know, we've waited for this to happen now for so long.
This whole year has gone by really slowly, and, well, here we are, out in the free world.
And, of course, fiber will be here real soon at the radio station.
Live for the first time.
I guess we can say now, Mark, you know, for the first couple of months while you were in prison, we only heard from you on tape.
But after a while, we managed to figure out a way to get you on the air live.
Right.
So I guess it won't hurt anybody now to explain how we did that.
Yeah, actually, Emanuel had one of his lines forwarded to the radio station on Wednesday nights, and that number was authorized on my telephone list.
We could only call numbers that are pre-approved.
And on Wednesday nights, I would just call that number, and it would forward to the station.
That's right.
We kept that line in service just for you to call in on Wednesday nights.
In fact, we've gotten rid of that line now that you're out.
But it was as simple as that with call forwarding.
We were able to make the line go wherever we wanted it to go.
Now, I understand that's against the rules, though, isn't it?
Technically, it is, yeah.
Anything like having somebody make a three-way call or forwarding a phone is all against the rules.
Uh-huh.
A lot of things were against the rules.
Tell us something about the whole checkout procedure.
It started at, what, 8 o'clock in the morning yesterday?
Uh, they were a little late, so it was more around 8.30-ish.
But what happened was a couple of friends of mine, I had been saying goodbye to everybody since the night before,
but a couple of friends helped me bring down all my things.
I had, like, a box of books and magazines and my personal letters and things.
And we were waiting and waiting and waiting, and then finally,
they showed up and they said they had to set up and all this business.
But it was actually really funny because I went in,
and what happened was, uh, we just left Times Square, by the way.
Okay.
What happened was I went in and they started searching through all my things and they had to have somebody strip search me.
And I'm like, I'm thinking to myself, they can't be serious.
I'm going home.
What, would I try to, like, smuggle something out home?
So what happened, it was funny.
We went in the back room and the guy said, don't worry about it.
Just take your shoes off really slow and then just put them back on again and stall for time.
Because he said if otherwise I was going to a halfway house, then it would be a real formality and they would have had to do it.
But he said, since I'm going home, then there's, uh, no problem.
Uh-huh.
But we just stalled so that the person outside thought that we actually did the strip search, which was, uh, kind of funny.
Uh-huh.
And after that, the guy just left.
And the woman that was left in the room said that she had to get someone else to verify that it was really me that actually did this prison term.
Like, God forbid, you pay somebody to do your prison term or something.
I have no idea.
Isn't it kind of late to verify that it's really you in the prison when you leave them?
I thought it was pretty funny.
So what she does is that she phones the office in the front of the building and, um, one of the administrative staff comes up.
And, uh, she tells him, she first told him on the phone that, uh, she needed him to verify that it was really me.
So he comes up, he comes into the room, and all of a sudden he says, that's him.
And she says, no, no, not yet, not yet.
So then, so then we're standing around.
She takes my ID card and she puts the ID card down on the desk, which has my picture on it.
And he sees the ID card and he goes, that's him.
She goes, no, no, no, you're getting ahead of yourself.
So then she takes out my, uh, my file that has my mugshot holding up my, uh, registration number.
And there's a thumbprint on it.
So I have to go over to the side.
And I thought I was going to get all fingerprinted again.
I was really annoyed.
I was going to get all inked up.
But it turns out that they only took a thumbprint.
And when, hello?
Is that the warning?
No, uh, I think we're just fading in and out.
Maybe we're, maybe we're skipping a cell or something.
Okay.
So there's no, there's no time limit on this call.
No, no.
Good.
We're about a block away from the station, she says.
Okay.
Are you coming up here now?
It's up to you.
It's up to you what you, what you want to do out there.
Let's see.
Um, where are we right now?
Okay.
Yeah, we're, we're, we're going to be coming up fairly soon.
Okay.
Great.
Just keep us surprised at the situation.
Okay.
Don't want to be too, uh, too shocked when you walk through the door.
All right.
Okay, we'll be taking some phone calls too in a little bit.
So, uh, those of you out there that want to greet fiber personally, you'll have that
chance.
Okay.
So you're at the point where they're starting to recognize who you are.
Yeah, right.
So they, they take the thumbprint and then the, then the guy says, that's him.
And then she says, okay.
And then that was it after all that time.
And then it was kind of funny.
It kind of reminded me of when, uh, when, when you give somebody a $50 bill in a supermarket
and they hold it up to the light as if they can tell whether it's real or not.
Well, it kind of reminded me of that because she proceeded to hold up my, uh, ID card with
the, with the thumbprint on it and like look at it back and forth between the one that they
had when I first got there and the one they just took.
Like as if she could like read the detail of the thumbprint with her naked eye, which I
thought was really funny because they, they looked completely different.
Uh, but, uh, apparently it was good enough for her.
What was it like, uh, leaving the people behind?
Oh, it was, it was kind of really, really depressing.
I mean, it was really bad yesterday, but I'm feeling kind of better today.
I mean, gradually, little by little.
By, by people, of course, I should point out we're referring to the inmates, not the, uh,
not the guards.
Yeah, exactly.
Uh-huh.
Well, I'm in front of the building now.
You're in front of, uh, BAI Studios?
We are.
Okay.
Well, here's the horn.
See if you can, uh, fight your way through the mob out there and, um...
Okay.
...and come upstairs.
All right.
It, it can be rather difficult sometimes.
Okay, so the, um, the 2600 van is here at the radio station.
Fiber optic has arrived at the, uh, lobby of the studios.
We're piling out of the van.
Oh, look at all this media.
Please, stand back, people.
Yeah, you gotta push the media back.
Yeah, they're, they're just out of control.
Out of control.
Okay, we're now in front of the building.
Okay, you're in front of the building.
Is the building open?
Yes.
Yeah.
Open.
Use the other door.
Yes, use the other door.
We're using the other door.
Okay.
Try not to frighten the security guard too much.
He's, he's sitting there all by himself, and I'm sure, however many of you are coming
in right now, 20 or 30, um, he's probably never seen anything quite like it.
He's, he's left his post.
Oh, well, okay, in that case, let's not mention it.
Oh, there he is.
He's sitting in the back.
All right, maybe he's listening to the radio, and he, he knows what to avoid.
Do we have to sign in?
Or we could go straight up?
Okay.
Tell him to say hi for millions of people listening.
Uh-oh, we're, we're, we're fading.
We're in the elevator.
Are you, has the elevator door closed yet?
Yeah.
I guess it has.
Okay.
Well, uh, this is, this is another reason why I don't like cellular phones.
Listen to that.
Okay.
Are you there, Mark?
Okay.
I can hear you if you can't hear me.
Well, I mean, I can't hear you.
I, I can't really hear anything.
But we do know that, um, that fiber optic is being whisked up the elevator.
All the way up here to, uh, WBAI, and maybe we'll get his signal again.
As he leaves the elevator.
Oh, that, that's something.
I don't know quite what it is.
Now, I don't think he's going to fade back in.
I, I think you have to make the call again.
Is that how it works?
Yeah, he's gone.
All right.
I guess what we'll do is we'll just, uh, wait for him to walk through the door, which
should be any second.
And while we're waiting, let's go out the phone number.
212-279-3400.
Um, very happy day in the history of, uh, off the hook.
History of, uh, the hacker world and, uh, all that kind of thing.
After, uh, after 10 months, it's, it's all over.
Okay.
I think he's, uh, I think he's arrived.
This, this is not him.
Okay.
Is he, uh, is he, uh, is he battling through the mob out there?
Okay.
Come on in.
Come on in.
Okay.
Well, let's hear the voice over the microphone now.
I'm now in the studio.
All right.
Welcome back.
Oh, what an ordeal this has been.
Those, uh, those long drives to Pennsylvania.
We don't have to worry about those anymore.
Uh, those, uh, phone calls.
People are always listening in.
And the 15 minute time limit.
15 minute time limit.
Now, uh, now we're here until 1145.
And, uh, the phone lines are filled with people that want to call in and say hi.
Um, anything you want to say before we start taking some phone calls?
Uh, we'll do it.
Gee, it's, I mean, it's, it's so overwhelming being back.
Well, the studio looks pretty much the same.
This studio has looked pretty much the same, uh, for, uh, I don't know, longer than we've
been here.
Um, basically, uh, not, not much has changed on our end, but, um, things are, things are
definitely changed emotionally here.
212-279-3400, uh, is our telephone number.
I guess we should just, uh, start taking some, uh, some phone calls.
Fiber Optic has returned.
And, uh, might I say, this whole thing has, has been an inspiration to a lot of people,
the way you, uh, you, you, you stood up to everything and just sort of hung in there.
I mean, it must have been, it must have been really hard at times, but knowing that a lot
of people were out there sending mail, is that, that kind of made the time go by.
Yeah, the whole, the, the mail thing and keeping in contact with people on the phone did make
the time go a lot easier, as did the visits.
And I really appreciate everyone that wrote and everyone that helped me out with, uh, with
money for my account for the commissary and the telephone and things.
I really appreciate that very much.
And, uh, I kind of regret leaving behind the people that I did, because, uh, when you
get to know people in a really rough environment like that, and you're living with them, like,
say, for a year or even longer, as other people are, you really, like, form a bond with them.
And, uh, it's, it's really difficult leaving them.
Uh-huh.
And, of course, you had to see a lot of people leave before you that, uh, that you
did form bonds with, too.
So, uh, that's, I, you know, that's what prison's all about, people coming and going.
Yeah.
A lot of goodbyes.
And, uh, I, I mean, I don't suppose you'd be really missing the place all that much, but
some of the people, well, you must have a different, I know I do, a different perception
of what prison is all about, what prisoners are.
Um, I didn't really know any prisoners before him, but when I went over to visit you, I,
I met a lot of people.
Yeah.
And, uh, you know, at least in that place, they, most of them seem to be decent people,
um, in there for various, uh, minor offenses.
Yeah, I mean, at least the people that I knew personally, that I talked to on a regular basis
and stuff, people that I would call my friends, were not there for any horrific crimes or anything
like that.
The, the small circle of people that I tended to associate with were there for really minor
things like, uh, say tax evasion or just something to that effect.
There was nothing really out of the ordinary.
Uh, so, I mean, there were relatively normal people that were just plucked out of their,
out of their environment just like I was.
So that's why we, we shared a common problem and, uh, that's how we, we bonded with each
other.
I don't think anybody though had the attention you had going in there.
You had, you had, uh, media crews and, uh, of course the mail you got was, uh, was
pretty unprecedented.
Yeah.
Uh, initially when I first got there for some months afterwards, I just got tons of
mail and, uh, it, it died down a bit towards the end, but, um, it was very rare that I didn't
get mail.
I got mail just about every day I was there.
And, um, it got to the point where the media coverage actually helped my stay there because
when I first got there, I knew very few people, if anybody.
And once I got involved with the media and doing interviews and things, people were curious
about what I did on the outside and who these people were that came up and why they wanted
to talk to me of all people.
So it was, uh, it was something to talk about.
And it was like, uh, it was like a, uh, it was a reason for talking to people because when
you're in there, it's really rare that you would just step up to somebody that you don't
know and just start talking because, uh, that would seem really suspicious.
Anybody that would seem like outwardly talkative when they first get there, you, you would suspect
might be an informant or you don't know what.
So it was good that with, with the interviews, it was a conversation piece.
It was just something to talk about.
Okay, well, I think, uh, this is something that, uh, a lot of us can, can learn from.
Um, I guess the, the important lesson for us here on the outside is, uh, when a friend
is in a situation like this, don't forget about them.
Whether it's a situation like this or an illness, uh, something, something unfortunate
that perhaps, uh, would be more convenient to just forget about.
It makes all the difference in the world when, when people who are leading normal lives don't
forget when they, when they care, you know, because, uh, I mean, imagine being in there
and not having a single visitor, not getting a single letter, you know, I'm sure a lot of
people go through that all the time.
Yeah, there were people like that that I met and strangely enough, there were other people
that would come in off the street that were, uh, self-surrenderers and for some reason when
they first start talking to people would make up their minds that they didn't want their
family to visit them.
And I remember talking to a couple of people and we, we would tell them that, you know,
that's ridiculous, that it's going to be a lot worse for the both of you.
And that once you get your family up to visit and they see that it's not a life threatening
environment, they'll feel more, a lot more at ease than even if you just spoke to them on
the phone or wrote letters and stuff, if they actually came up and saw the environment that
you were living in and they just, they would just feel a whole lot better and you would
feel a whole lot better as well.
Okay, let's start taking some phone calls, uh, so everybody else can, uh, get in on this
happy event.
212-279-3400.
Good evening.
You're old.
You're gone.
Okay.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hi, this is Rose of the field.
Oh, well, you'll have to speak up a little louder than that.
I can barely hear you.
Can you hear me now?
Um.
Hello?
Okay.
There you are.
Yeah, you're fine now.
Okay.
Uh, how are you?
Welcome home!
Thank you.
Yes, I, I suppose I should have mentioned that she was waiting for you.
That like chubby women, I'm looking for a tall, honka-honka brunette guy, and I was
wondering if you met anyone who you thought might, um, want to hook up with me?
In prison?
Yeah, why not?
Well, what, I mean, what's wrong with people out here?
You know, well, um, I'm having a bit of bad luck on the outside, and I just thought, you
know, people might be more accepting if they're locked up for a while of a large woman, a 300-pound
woman.
Perhaps this is a conversation best carried on in private.
I don't know.
Uh, Mark, you have any, any quick answer for this one?
Oh, I, I have no idea.
I wasn't thinking that, uh, I would be acting as a, a dating service or anything like that.
Well, it's one of the fringe benefits of, uh, of being in a, in a club like the one you've
been in for the past 10 months.
Thanks for the call.
Good evening.
You're on the radio.
Hi.
Hello.
Speak up, please.
Hi.
Dave Burstein here from the computer show that she was on before you.
Yes, you guys weren't on tonight.
We got preempted, so I wasn't there to welcome back Fiber, so I thought I'd come in, call in,
and say, welcome back.
Well, it's good to hear your voice, and, uh, I'm sure Fiber has missed it as well.
More important.
Yeah, thanks a lot.
Are they still there?
I'm here, but I've got nothing more to add to that.
Oh, okay.
Well, you guys, you guys will be back.
Welcome back.
You'll be back on next, uh, next week, right?
Yeah, we will.
Okay.
And I hope Fiber will be back on next week and many times in the future.
Yes, I will, Dave.
I look forward to running into you in the, in upcoming weeks.
Okay.
Great.
Just like old times.
Take care.
Okay.
Dave Burstein from the personal computer show, which, uh, is usually on every Wednesday night
from 9 to 10, will be on next week at that time.
Good evening.
You're on the radio.
Hi.
I wanted to, uh, welcome back Fiber.
And, uh, this is Ruben from the Bronx talking.
Ah.
Oh, I remember him.
I got some mail from him.
I remember, I remember a phone call from him, I believe, the day you left.
Yes, that's right, too.
Yeah.
Well, did you take his advice?
I'm, uh, communicating with, uh, the Raven and Plastic, who's also, uh, somewhere down there.
Uh-huh.
I don't know what, not, not, not in the same state, but they're gone away for a little
while as well.
Uh-huh.
I don't know, I don't think, uh, Mark knows those people.
No, I don't think I'm familiar with the names.
He might not know them by those names, but he knows them.
Uh-huh.
From the meetings and everything.
Well, you know, about a hundred people show up at those meetings, so it's not possible to
know everybody, but, uh, it's possible that.
But, uh, when he first, uh, when he first came back and you guys were just talking a little
a while ago, it sounded like, uh, he was getting a little emotional there.
Emmanuel, was there any tears in his eyes?
Well, you know, I didn't really check.
Well, anyway, I'm gonna, I'm gonna let, uh, some other people call through and it's, um,
I'm glad you're out and, uh, try not to get back in.
Oh, definitely not.
Yeah.
Be more careful.
Okay, thanks for calling.
Bye soon.
Uh, that's, uh, leads into an interesting point.
Are you gonna do anything different or not do things, uh, as a result of this experience?
Well, maybe we should quantify these things.
Uh-huh.
What do you mean exactly?
Well, I mean, has your attitude changed?
Are you going to maybe not be as outspoken as, as before?
Because, remember, the judge said he was sentencing you as a symbol because you, you spoke out
a lot because you gave interviews, because you explained things publicly, um, well, I
certainly, I certainly can't let him down.
I'm gonna have to continue to live up to my reputation.
Uh-huh.
And to his expectations.
I'm certainly not gonna stop talking all of a sudden.
Uh-huh.
But, uh, I'm certainly gonna be very careful not to, not to, to give them any reasons to
charge me with anything.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
You don't seem embittered by this.
Oh, don't worry.
I'm, I'm plenty embittered.
I'm just in a really good mood because this is really fun.
Yeah.
All right.
212-279-3400.
We have some open phone lines, so give us a call.
Good evening.
You're on the radio.
Hi.
Welcome back, Fiber.
It's your favorite person.
Caller.
I think you remember that voice.
I remember that voice quite, quite well, yes.
Well, I'm so glad you're out.
And I'll, of course, see you at the meeting on, uh, on December, in the beginning of December.
So, yeah, I'm sure you have a lot to tell Fiber as to, uh, what has, what has changed
with the phone system in the past 10 months.
Of course.
So, let's, let's give him an alphabetical list.
Go ahead.
I know there's a lot you have to tell him.
Uh, well, I can't think of any now.
I just wanted to call in to say, welcome home.
You can't think of anything?
Oh.
Come on.
It's, that's...
All right, Fiber.
Why doesn't, uh, 950 numbers have A and I?
Wait, are you asking a question?
I thought you were going to give him information.
He hasn't, he hasn't touched a phone, a real phone, since January, for God's sake.
Um, play with the phones in the Port Authority, uh, the TCG phones in the Port Authority bus
terminal and the, uh, Trade Center and, um, the, um, the, uh, I think it's, you know,
any Port Authority place, like the LaGuardia Airport.
Why?
What, what will he find?
CG.
It's the Co-Cards company called TCG.
It's, um, they run on different trucks.
If they do it, they have a PBX on their trucks because they have so many Co-Cards.
They, uh, have, you know, it's hard to explain.
You've got to sort of play with it to understand that I've been playing with it lately.
Well, share some information with us.
I mean, this is, this is the program where we share this kind of stuff.
To be able to do is you used to be able to dial zero and it used to be giving you,
Oh, by the way, when you dialed 1-800-CALL-ATT on a Co-Card, it, it, um, uh, it, oh, it did something.
You dialed.
Really?
That's, that's quite a revelation there.
Now, you know what it did?
When I dialed 1-0-2-8-8-0, it, it connected me with another operator.
Instead of AT&T, it connected me with another operator.
Not this particular Co-Card I'm talking about, but, um, another Co-Card that I, uh, a more sleetier Co-Card, I guess I should say.
Uh-huh.
Um, but the Co-Card's in the Port Authority Bus Terminal and in LaGuardia Airport and Kennedy Airport, I must say, also.
And in, um, 34th Street Path Station and down in the Trade Center.
Uh, you used to be able to dial zero, which will give you the TCG operator, that Stanford Telecommunications Group.
And there, you would ask them, uh, instead of, you know how when you dial 411 and ask for a number,
they do not give you the option to connect because they know it's a Co-Card?
Hmm.
Okay, but...
Right.
I'm not sure if Mark knows what that is, but basically when you call information now...
I heard it today for the first time.
You did hear that.
Yeah.
Yeah, they say for an additional whatever, you can, you can be connected.
I think it was something like 35 cents.
It's amazing if people would pay that because they're too lazy to get a pen or they can't remember the number.
For, for one second while they dial it.
Yeah.
Right afterwards.
By the way, the Chemical Bank still has those phones in every single bank.
Well, it just wouldn't be the same world if they didn't, would it?
Of course not.
I mean, God, you know, God knows.
What would I do without Chemical Bank?
I mean, like, you know, what would anyone do without Chemical Bank's phones?
I don't know.
It makes you wonder.
It makes you wonder.
All right, listen, thanks for all the updates.
All right.
We'll see you at the meeting.
Okay.
And we have something that I want to share with Fiber that has been circulating in various places.
A special number that you call up.
I want everybody to listen to this.
Let's get a dial tone.
Listen carefully.
Be repeated.
You have reached the AT&T long distance network.
Thank you for choosing AT&T.
This message will not be repeated.
You have reached the AT&T long distance network.
Thank you for choosing AT&T.
Actually, that's a really old recording.
Yes, but...
The AT&T long distance network.
But let me point out that usually...
Thank you for choosing AT&T.
Usually they get it right and they only play it once.
Yeah.
But...
You have reached the AT&T long distance network.
This is something that MCI might have some fun with.
Using AT&T.
They're starting to...
You can get this, by the way.
Anybody can call this by calling 1-800-555-0000.
I understand also...
All right.
How do we get rid of this now?
This message will...
Okay.
It won't be repeated anymore.
This...
If you have AT&T as your long distance carrier and you dial 700-555-4141, you're supposed
to get that message only once.
I understand it's repeating all the time now, too.
So somebody did something wrong in AT&T.
And that happens more often than they care to admit.
But there are also some other 555 numbers in the 800 area code that are starting to be used
for other things.
And I think if I can get another line here...
I think we can get a test recording here.
Now, this is different depending on where you call from.
You have reached the 800 database test line for the Metro 132 ladder.
Listen to them cover up the mouthpiece.
So...
You have reached the 800 database test...
That's a switchman.
For the Metro 132 ladder.
And that noise in the background is the sound of the switch.
Actually...
Well, the noise in the background is most likely the air conditioning system.
Uh-huh.
So we just tend not to make noise anymore.
That's true.
Yeah, the electronic ones, digital ones don't work.
And that guy's voice sounds mysteriously just like the guy that does the recordings at
Williamsburg, Brooklyn.
Uh-huh.
So maybe it is.
What's the number in Williamsburg, Brooklyn?
Let's hear that so we know.
Oh.
The 9901?
Yeah.
What's an exchange there?
Hmm.
I'm trying to remember.
Come on, Friber.
You can do it.
You can do it.
It's been such a long time.
Bring back that knowledge.
Oh, boy.
It's in there.
Oh, I just can't remember.
Can't remember the exchange for Williamsburg.
Okay.
I'm sure one of our callers will be able to help us on that.
It's going to come to you.
We're on until 1145.
So you're going to get that information, and then we'll see if it's the same voice.
But, yeah, the 555 exchange is starting to be used for information services of different
sorts.
Yeah.
So we'll just have to see where that goes, but they're testing it now.
212-279-3400.
Give us a call.
Special edition of Off the Hook.
Fiber Optic is back in the studio after 10 months in federal prison.
Boy.
Good evening.
You're on.
Hi, Mark.
I want to wish you back.
Thanks.
And I have a question for you.
Go ahead.
Now that you're out of jail, you're having to be able to get fucked up the ass by a manual.
Good evening.
You're on.
This is somewhere out in 201.
A number of things.
It's great to see you back, although I kind of tuned into the show a little midstream in
this internship.
A little thing about the, what is it, the spring or the autumn 94 issue of 2600.
They had a 9x change card made by Landis and Gear.
Okay.
And I noticed, I have friends who go back and forth from Israel, and apparently they got
a hold of a Bezek telecard, and the description seems to match.
Would anyone happen to know who makes or what issue of 2600, where I can get information
about Bezek?
How do you spell the company name?
It's translated as B-E-Z-E-Q.
Can't say I've heard of it.
Yeah.
Another thing out here, I've noticed that the 9900 up test numbers, there seems to be something
happened with certain 9924 exchanges.
You get this tone like, beep.
And I noticed...
Sound like a car horn there.
Interesting.
That's a new one on me.
Well, if you could quantify the beep, but maybe if Emanuel could call one of them, I could
explain what it is.
And if you play, like, some off-key tones...
Right.
...you get some tones like, ba, beep-a.
Oh, I know exactly what that is.
Oh, what is that?
Oh, wouldn't you like to know?
Is that an R1 gateway?
What's that?
Is that an R1 gateway?
No, actually, what it is, it's in New York, in New York City anyway, you'll find the exact
same thing in any exchange plus 9968.
And what that is, is that it's known as a Type 105 test line.
And it's also known as the ATMS system.
That's the Automatic Test Measurement System.
And what it's used to do is that, I can tell you exactly how it works, it's responding to
your touch tones completely by accident.
They're actually programmed in MF tones.
And the way it works is that a central office, if it wants to test the signal quality of an
analog trunk line between that central office and another central office, what it'll do is
that it has, in its translation tables, it has a list of all the test lines that basically,
that's why they all follow the same pattern.
Like, a Type 105 test line will always be at 9968, and a Type 102 non-terminating milliwatt
test will always be at 9945.
The reason for that is that when they enter in the translation tables, when they install
the switch, all the test lines are the same.
So basically, the way it works is that I could have the central office that I'm at signal,
say for example, that Type 105 test line, in the distant central office.
It would basically dial the number over the trunk that we wanted to test.
And what it would do is that it would signal back.
And basically, by signaling MF tones, we could do various different tests.
Another thing I noticed, too, I was reading certain issues at 2600, I was looking at the
demon dialer, and I happen to work with computer repair.
I was told something about the Intel 8254 programmable interval timer.
It can set like a number of them to like eight megacycles, and you just poke in numbers to
determine for the dividing factor.
You can generate any tones, and I've sat down, I've spent several weeks wiring up a board,
and I've managed to filter it out, and I've got it to dial DTMF and make some fake phone
sounds, because I get a lot of prank calls for where I am.
For some weird reason, when my number was assigned, it was like right next to or right after some
auto repair place nearby, and so I'm always getting calls about water pump this, and catalytic
converter that.
Well, those aren't really prank calls, they're just wrong numbers.
Yeah, you know, like sometimes people may assume, oh, a business.
So, like, you know, because what happens, the phone company assigns blocks of numbers for
tie, what they call cross-over, tie-down lines.
Like, for example, if I, you know, WBAI, you've got 3,400 and so on and so forth.
Uh-huh.
Notice I get a lot of calls of that, so.
Another thing, too, is I found another exchange, 916-9913 to 9937.
It seems to be where all the bad numbers live.
The bad, what's a bad number?
I mean, when you get, like, what they call intercept operator, you know, where you get
an SIT and then the message, you know, we're sorry, your call did not go through.
Please try again later.
This is in the 201?
Yeah.
201-916, what?
Uh, 9-9-1-4.
In fact, I got, I have a particular office cluster mapped out.
Uh-huh.
And, uh...
9-1-6, 9-9-1-4, until what?
9-9-1-4, up to 9-9-3-7.
In fact, one of them, I found, Sally, you've just activated call trace.
Uh-oh.
Yeah, I know.
It's like, hmm, I wonder if star 5-7 gets mapped out to that number.
Uh-huh.
Uh...
Well, I like that.
That's a question I know a lot of people have.
Maybe we can answer from fiber here.
Why is that necessary to have those recordings directly dialable?
Do they have to exist?
Well, uh, usually what they'll do is, when they first record them, is, um...
Well, I'll give you an example.
On a Northern Telecom DMS-100 switch, there's, uh, there's something called, uh, D-R-A-M-R-E-C,
which is the Digital Recorded Announcement Machine Recorder.
And, uh, basically what they could do is plug in a microphone and, uh, headphones, and that's
basically how they actually record all the announcements.
Some of them come with the switch, but other ones are recorded locally.
That's why, like, say in New York, you tend to hear the same guy's voice all the time.
Uh-huh.
What they do is that, uh, when they install the switch, they tend to record them locally.
And that's why you hear the actual, uh, environmental control unit, or, aka, air conditioner, in the
background, when, when the guy's talking.
What they do is, um, like, uh, say for your call did not go through, or if you'd like to make a call,
please hang up.
Some of them come with the switch, and some of them are recorded.
And they're digitized and stored on disc, and basically every time you, uh, every time you get
one of those recordings, I believe what it does is that there's a master copy on disc, and the actual
copy that always gets played every time you hear it is actually stored in, uh, in EEPROM,
so that, so that it's, uh, a lot quick, uh, more quickly available than if it was, if it
was gotten off disc.
And, uh, 5ESS switch.
When you dial 553, you get this waltzing busy.
It is not, uh, it's not a fast busy.
It is not a normal busy.
It goes, you know, basically it goes almost three, four, three-quarter time, like,
bep, bep, bep, for about 12 seconds, and then the line goes dead for five minutes.
It's 553, and that's it?
Yeah.
It only works with certain, uh, uh, I guess it would be, you know, 5ESS, because I would
listen for the very slight click, not the double kerchunk, like the 1AESS or the nothing of
a DMS-100.
By the way, Northern Telecom, are they Bell Canada?
Well, no, actually, uh, the way, the way it's, the way it's set up is that, uh, Northern Telecom
is, uh, and the actual, uh, switching equipment manufacturer.
The research and the software engineering is done by Bell Northern Research.
Bell Northern Research, basically, is the R&D wing of Northern Telecom.
It's mostly owned by Northern Telecom, and a slightly smaller percentage owned by Bell Canada.
But Northern Telecom is its own entity, it's not owned by anyone else.
Alright, I was just wondering if that, is that like the eighth of the seven sisters of
Our Lady of the Dial Tone that's never mentioned, really?
And that's why, that's one of the reasons why Canada is so wired into us?
Well, uh, I would assume originally that, uh, Alexander Graham Bell must have, uh, I know
for a fact that he went around patenting the Bell name and the whole design for the telephone.
And, uh, what he probably did was, uh, establish Bell Canada at some point in time, or maybe
it wasn't him personally.
I don't know the exact history of Bell Canada itself, per se.
Anyway, but, um, a lot of the, uh, equipment, uh, manufacturing is done by, uh, the same
companies.
I mean, Northern Telecom manufactures tons of switches all over the United States, and
yet Northern Telecom is based in Canada, and there's also a headquarters in England.
But they're, they're mainly a Canadian company.
Another thing, uh, this is when I was growing up, in the late 70s, uh, about the time of ELO's
release of the Toon telephone line with their appearance of the ESS ringback, I used, uh,
a brother of mine used to dial his number, used to get this, uh, yo-yo tone, it goes,
ah, ah, ah, ah, ah.
This guy's good.
Hey, that's pretty good.
You don't need the test.
You're just going to have him on the test.
Yeah.
I think, uh, what you're talking about, there's still a lot of those test numbers around.
Yeah, I thought it might have been associated with a crossbar because, uh, you know, I've
been, you know, you know, searching around for that number.
It's, it's like a, I don't know, it's like a nostalgia.
It's like, when I was a kid, I used to get it, and it's like, brings back memories.
Right.
I don't even use it on a punk tune.
A lot of people, uh, nickname them sweep tones.
What they're actually used for is on analog switches, not digital, but strictly analog switches.
And a lot of the older switches, crossbars, step-by-steps, or even ones and one-as, ESSs,
which are analog as well, you'll find these test numbers because they actually used to
use those to test signal quality.
So this is for similar reasons as they now use the type 105 ATMS, uh, system.
And notice there's certain 9922 exchanges that give you this ramping, uh, test that
goes...
Right, that, that's, that's the sweep tone as well.
It's just another sweep tone.
Uh-huh.
All right, uh...
I think, I think we've, we've been impressed enough with all, all these different sounds
you can make.
But, um, keep searching, keep looking for things.
Yeah.
All right?
Great time.
Thanks, thanks for sharing that with us.
And, you know, there's a lot of people out there that, that know all this, that can do
that.
Well, I just want to add...
Captain Crunch to Shane.
I want to add one more thing about the recordings.
Is that, um, when the recordings are, are made, when they're actually digitized and
stored, the major reason that they have a phone number go to that recording is basically
they want to hear how it sounds.
Right.
Because it's one thing to hear it in the headset when you play it back yourself on a computer
terminal, but it's another thing to actually map it out to a telephone number, and then
they would go to a phone and dial it just to see how it sounds over a telephone to make
sure that it's intelligible and not muffled or anything like that.
And that's basically the reason why they have phone numbers, simply to test out the recording
to see how it sounds.
Well, let's, uh, check out some of those phone numbers, see what, uh, what we get if we call
one.
Uh, let's see if that's the number he gave us.
Hopefully it's the right number.
We're not waking somebody up.
Oh, we have to enter one of those stupid authorization cards.
Okay.
Let's see if I can figure one out.
Okay.
Service cannot be activated because the telephone number is not in our serving area.
Wow.
That's interesting.
It was in the 201 area code?
Yeah.
Well, that was the recording that we got.
Yeah.
That wasn't something, we, we activated that recording by calling that number.
Hmm.
Let's, uh, let's try another one.
Try one up from that.
Do we have a dial tone here?
Okay.
Okay.
We're sorry.
Your call did not go through.
Will you please try your call again?
Well, that's kind of an uninteresting one, isn't it?
Yeah.
All right.
We'll try another one a little later.
But, um...
Well, that's a perfect example of the recordings that come with the Switch, basically.
Uh-huh.
Those are the generic...
Yeah, those are your generic recordings.
Okay.
And you can change those or do whatever with them?
Yeah, you can, but they usually leave them just the same.
How would one go about, I mean, can you do that remotely or do you have to be actually
in, inside the Switch to change those recordings?
You can actually access the software tools remotely, but technically you have to actually be there
in order to plug in a microphone and a headset.
Uh-huh.
That's kind of neat.
That would be a good thing if somebody could actually figure out how to do that and put
their own voice on the phone.
Yeah.
No hacker has done that yet, I don't think, but I'm sure that day will come.
I'm going to try out one more of these.
Well, that's nothing, that's just a reorder.
Okay, some of these might not be in service.
We're discovering this as we go along.
Maybe it was meant to give a reorder.
Maybe.
Okay, well, let's cross that one off the list.
Want to try one more?
Sure, why not?
It could be really a funny recording, so.
It's the only reason we do things like this, because we may discover something really interesting.
Now another reorder.
I have a feeling a lot of them are like that.
Let's take some phone calls.
Good evening, you're on.
Go ahead, speak.
Hello, oh, I'm on time delay.
Excuse me.
Okay, don't listen to the time delay.
Nope, sorry.
You'll get all confused.
I was just wondering, I'm an audiophile, I listen to music a lot, and I enjoy it very much,
but where does the passion lie in this?
I just don't understand it.
I don't mean to be ignorant, but.
Okay, you're asking where's the passion in playing around with phones?
Hacking, I mean, what drives you guys to do this?
Well, Fiber, I think you're having spent ten months in prison because of hacking, I guess
you're a qualified chance for that.
Go ahead.
Well, are you talking strictly about computers, or are you talking about calling strange phone
numbers and seeing what they do?
Like the last call, are calling strange phone numbers.
Oh, well, the thing behind that is, if you think of it this way, if you've ever played
with a computer, you're typing things in at a keyboard, and you're seeing the result
of what you're typing on a screen.
The only difference between freaking and hacking on a computer is that instead of a keyboard,
you're using a dial or a touchtone keypad to do things, and instead of having a screen
to see what the result of those things is, you're listening to the result.
So it's almost as if you were having this audible computer respond to various different
input.
Right, so, I don't know, maybe I'm just not getting it, but you're just doing it to find
out something, to hear audible tones?
Well, the thing is that, I mean, obviously if I was just sitting around dialing things
at random and had no idea what they were, then the whole thing would be completely pointless.
But the thing is to find out what that number is, what it does, and what purpose it serves.
Oh, so just basically for the general information that it provides?
Oh, sure.
I mean, it's a piece of test equipment, basically, a lot of them, and by knowing what the purpose
that that piece of test equipment serves, and maybe even being able to interact with
that piece of test equipment, it's just like programming a computer, only like I said, you're
pushing buttons on a phone, and you're hearing the output instead of seeing it.
Wow.
Very interesting.
Thanks a lot.
Okay.
Appreciate it.
Sure.
I know a lot of people can't understand that.
I mean, you know, there's a limited number of people that can appreciate this kind of
thing, and I think that's true of virtually anything.
You know, there's a group of people that go around taking pictures of trains.
Yeah.
You know, now, how many people really understand what that's all about and can get passionate
about it?
But there are a group of people that do that.
Now, you know, what we're doing might not be as, I guess, passive as taking pictures,
but imagine if, imagine if taking pictures of trains was, you know, illegal for some reason.
Yeah.
You know, it would be totally as screwed up as our world has become because of some of
the things that we do that are considered illegal.
So, you know, communicating in certain ways, accessing certain systems, maybe someday using encryption
is going to be illegal.
We're coming a lot closer to that.
So, you know, as the powers that be understand technology more and understand how much they're
not in control, you can look forward to seeing all kinds of bizarre rules.
And that's something that I think we'll be looking at in the future.
You know, with the Clinton administration, we've been talking about this, they have more
of a handle on technology, and that's not necessarily a good thing, especially if, you
know, if they don't trust us with it.
So, is there much appreciation in prison for technologies or interest in this kind of thing?
I met quite a number of people that really wanted to know what I had done and why I do
the things I do or just to understand.
And yeah, sure, there's like people here and there that, you know, want you to do something
for them and things like that.
And, you know, it's really silly.
But I did meet a number of people that honestly, you know, just were asking genuine questions
just because they were curious and not because, you know, they wanted some fraud committed for
them or something really ridiculous.
But it's interesting how many people are aware.
I mean, they don't have to be knowledgeable in computers or technology, but just that are
interested in it.
People young and old alike.
Like, it was really interesting to interact with people that were reading things in the
newspaper or might have just come in off the street and, you know, whatever the talk was
on the news.
In fact, I was thinking about it last night.
I was watching TV really for the first time, actually sitting down and watching television.
And I was just switching channels around late at night and there was some talk show on.
All of a sudden, somebody mentioned email.
It doesn't seem very odd in and of itself, but when you consider that five or ten years
ago, no one even knew what email was.
And the odds of you just on a whim switching channels around and hearing somebody talk about
email or a talk show having an email address, it's really strange.
I felt really out of place.
Yeah, well, things have changed.
There's a lot more people involved.
And that's not necessarily a good thing, you know, because a lot of people involved don't
appreciate.
You know, I've been thinking over the past few weeks that eventually what could happen with
this whole net access thing where everybody wants access, you'll have two different camps
of people, people like us that have sort of plowed a path onto the electronic superhighway,
as they call it.
And we've carved our own little niche into that.
And then the other people that want to do something on a commercial level, I think basically
what you're going to wind up with are two different nets.
You know, the Internet as we know it and whatever it is that Prodigy and AOL and those people want
to make.
And the two nets will talk, but they'll be totally different.
You know, they'll talk to each other.
You can send mail from one to another, but I just don't see how it can all exist as one.
Because you have such radically different views.
I can't help but thinking about the analogy, and I do quite often, of American Indians, Native
Americans, and the homesteaders coming out to more or less settle the uncharted territory.
And I'm always reminded of that every time, about how the Native Americans were called
savages and how the hackers are called rebels and criminals and things like that, and how
they have to be taught a lesson and made civilized so that the mom and pop computer user can
like pretty much ride in and with the government's help gain access to all the wonderful things
that computers can do for them, which is really a utilitarian way of looking at things.
They're simply using it to get something and not really appreciating anything that has to
do with where did this technology come from, who were the pioneers that built it and made
it possible.
Yeah, I mean, the net is something that can be used for virtually anything.
Computers can be used for whatever it is your imagination allows.
And unfortunately, too many people are worried about the restrictions, about the rules, about
what they can't do.
And, you know, that's not what it's all about.
Do whatever you want.
Figure it out.
Figure out what the boundaries are.
You know, and apply the same moral fabric that you already have in real life to computers.
And, you know, I think that's the guiding force that most of us should have in the first
place.
Well, just to shock people a little bit.
Okay.
I think that people should bear in mind that in prison, the way that things are run is that
you're constantly reminded under threat what you can't do.
Right.
And I think that there are enough horrible places like that where you're told what you
can't do and you're repressed and all kinds of horrible things that we don't have to act
like that on the outside, especially on computer networks.
Right.
And that's increasingly happening in mainstream society as well, not just in prisons.
We're constantly...
We have to have rules and regulations for everything because we just don't know enough to take
care of ourselves.
We have to be told that, you know, we have to wear a seatbelt because we wouldn't know
enough to do it on our own.
We have to not smoke everywhere in certain places because, you know, we're not considerate.
So we have to have regulations telling us what to do.
Now, a lot of these regulations I happen to agree with.
But the fact that we have to have a rule for, you know, for just normal behavior is, I mean,
you go to foreign countries and basically common sense prevails.
You know, I've mentioned this about, you know, when I went to Argentina, I noticed that, and
in Europe too, you know, like doors on trains open whenever people push them.
You know, I don't think that would work very well here in Manhattan.
And traffic is much more chaotic, but people kind of get by.
I'm reminded of somebody that I knew in prison who, he was basically treated with the same
type of mentality.
Basically, he needed an operation.
He had a slipped disc or something to that effect in his back.
Right.
And he had to go out for an operation at some point because there's no, you know, in-depth
medical treatment there.
So he had to be taken to the next town where they had a hospital.
And he knew he was going to go to the hospital at some point.
But all of a sudden, they come and get him.
They take him out and they throw him in the hole, which is basically segregation.
And he had no idea why he was going.
He thought he might have did something wrong or something like that.
And when he came back a couple of days later, I asked him what happened.
And he told me that he was scheduled to go for surgery and he was not supposed to eat
for something like a 12-hour period.
And it reminds me exactly like what you're saying, that you can't tell a grown man not
to eat the night before.
You have to go and lock him up where he's not in contact with food.
And it made absolutely no sense.
It was scary.
Right.
Right.
We have to have our, you know, our behavior controlled because we're not mature enough
to control ourselves.
It's, I don't know, it's a scary world that we seem to be moving into.
And computers seem to underline that in some ways because people seem to want rules and
regulations where you really don't need any.
You know, no more additional rules and regulations, that is.
Right.
Anyway, let's take some more phone calls.
Let's try out one more of those numbers.
I'm convinced that we'll find something out there that's interesting.
We have a dial tone?
Okay.
This may be a totally fruitless search here, but who knows.
Uh-oh.
We're sorry.
It is not necessary to dial the digits 950 before the long-distance company access code.
Please hang up and try your call again.
There you go.
Bet you never heard that one before.
Well, actually, I think I have.
Okay.
Well, most of the people out there probably haven't.
That's an interesting recording.
Okay.
212-279-3400.
By the way, if you're tuning in for the news, you've noticed that it's not the news tonight.
Tonight we're going an extra 45 minutes to 1145, right up to when Robert Knight comes in
because of this special event, fiber optic returning, not only to the airways, but to the
civilized world, such as it is.
Anything, any negative feelings coming back here?
Anything looks depressing or?
Well, to tell you the truth, everything seems pretty amazing.
Uh-huh.
I mean, experiencing everything again, it's really, in some ways it's kind of overwhelming
and maybe even a little scary.
But as soon as I get over that feeling, it's really amazing.
I'm kind of just amazed by everything.
Yeah.
I remember, like, when I first got out, I was amazed by really the silliest things, like
being able to wear my own clothing and being able even to wear a shirt that had a color.
Other than, like, you know, khaki or gray.
Basically, all the clothing that we have in there is either khaki or gray.
And, I mean, some people got clothing in from the outside, which you have to go through all
kinds of major hurdles to do.
But the majority of people didn't even want to bother going through the trouble because
it was basically, we're not trying to impress anybody.
And I don't, I wouldn't want to look the way I dressed on the street, even to a slight
degree, because I think it would, it just seems wrong.
And it would just probably confuse me, the fact that I was wearing street clothes and
I wasn't on the street.
It was, people never really wore street clothes there.
The majority of people that I knew, we basically wore khakis if we had to or whites if we worked
in the kitchen.
And when we weren't working, we usually wore the same gray sweatpants and sweat jackets
that they sold in the commissary.
We were wondering, I mean, we would always wonder about these things when we came to
visit you.
But one of the things that a couple of us were thinking, what would happen if we came
dressed in the same outfit that you were dressed in?
I mean, that's how they were able to tell the prisoners from the free people.
I mean, would they ask us to stay?
Would they get all confused and count us as prisoners?
Has anyone ever tried anything like that?
I've never seen it happen.
But that is an interesting question.
If they would think you were a prisoner, or maybe they wouldn't let you in when you came
because they would think that you're trying to pull some stunt.
Yeah, we'd definitely be labeled as wise guys.
So I think we already were, though, to start with.
So, okay, let's take some more phone calls.
212-279-3400.
Good evening.
Hi, Manuel.
Just some Williamsburg exchanges here that you wanted.
Ah, I knew you'd come through.
Okay, and I wanted to slide a little question.
The Williamsburg-Brooklyn exchanges are 384, 387, 388, and 486.
Any of that ring a bell, Fiverr?
Oh, vaguely.
Vaguely.
Very vague.
It'll come back to you.
The question I meant to ask you, Fiverr, why when you dial 0 for local operator or AT&T operator,
when you hang up, they seem to hold you on the line when you pick up?
In other words, when you dial 102-22 for MCI or another long-distance carrier,
when you hang up, you're able to hang up.
When you dial 102-88 for AT&T, you hang up, you try and hang up,
and it won't release the line until they...
That's a remnant of the old system, isn't it?
It's still the same here.
Yeah, well, actually, I think it's still like that in practically every place I'm aware of.
The reason for that is that when you call an operator,
they actually reverse the voltage on the line
so that normally you're not able to hang up.
And it actually keeps the connection open until they hit position release on their console,
and that basically restores the trunk and ultimately the phone line to its normal polarity.
Well, that's true of the local operator, but is it still true of AT&T?
With AT&T, I'm not exactly certain.
You say it is.
Yes.
You can try it if you want, but the other question is that with MCI and the other companies,
when you hang up, I know the ANI, does that ANI go away right away when you hang up?
And is it the same with AT&T and local operators?
Does the ANI go away when they press position release?
What do you mean by go away?
In other words, they have your ANI.
I imagine they can hold on to it as long as they want, depending on their software.
Well, now, wait, you mean when they're looking at their console and they see where you're calling from?
Right.
Right.
To tell you the truth, I myself have never stood in front of an operator's console, an OSPS console, or a TOPS console, or anything like that.
You know what you do?
You call an MCI operator, and you social engineer them, and you find out.
You ask questions.
Sometimes, you know, you can find that information that way if you're really interested.
So I call you an operator?
Yeah.
And technically, it's not ANI.
It's ONI.
When you call an operator, they get operator number identification, ONI.
950 numbers have ANI.
I believe 950 numbers know the exchange and area code you're calling from.
Some 950 numbers, for some time now, are capable of receiving ANI if they're in equal access areas.
Although, for the most part, they've tended to go against that, because originally, when 950s came out, and then they came out with equal access,
they classified 950s as feature group B numbers.
And feature group D, which indicates equal access, where you have 10-plus dialing, or whether you have 800 numbers that can receive ANI,
that's all made possible through what's known as an equal access end office, which basically means a central office switch that's capable of equal access,
or transmitting ANI to another long-distance carrier's phone switch at the other end.
Can local 7-digit numbers have ANI also, or is it just a 32-900 and 800 number?
Yeah, sure, they can.
I mean, an 800 number technically translates to a normal telephone number.
It translates to a POTS telephone number.
Some of them do.
Yeah, not always.
No, not, yeah, that's true.
Not necessarily.
But, for all practical intents and purposes, anyone that does is perfectly capable of receiving the ANI.
In fact, that's what it's going to do.
If they're actually receiving the ANI in real time, and their 800 number happens to translate,
the INWATS number translates to an actual POTS number, then yeah, I mean, it's nothing out of the ordinary.
All right, thanks for the call.
Okay.
All right, thanks for the information.
Let's see if we can recognize this guy's voice here.
Calling Williamsburg, and we're going to try...
What happened there?
Ooh.
That's a high-speed modem, isn't it?
Yes, it is.
Well, we're not going to tell you which one of those numbers yielded that.
We're just going to try another exchange.
That's kind of interesting, isn't it?
Yeah.
Why would they leave a high-speed modem on such an obvious number?
Let's try this one.
Congratulations, you have reached the Williamsburg DS2.
I don't think so.
Hmm.
That's a woman.
Doesn't sound very much like him.
No, not at all.
You have reached the Williamsburg DS2, serving code 387.
Okay, well, that was only for one exchange, so maybe she got that exchange and he got all
the others.
Well, I think that they're probably most likely all the same.
Let's see what happens when we dial 388.
Congratulations, you have reached the Williamsburg DS2, serving code 388.
Well, I guess she does each one individually.
That's unusual.
Usually they list the exchanges, but not in this case.
Well, okay, 212-279-3400.
Good evening, you're on.
Hello?
Go ahead.
Yeah, I just want to say hi to Mark.
Hi.
Mark?
Yeah.
Steve Burke.
Hey, how are you?
Glad to hear you're out.
It's great to be out.
We missed you.
You better go pick that up.
Yeah.
So, anything you want to say besides welcome back?
No, that's it.
Just wanted to say hi to Mark.
I'll definitely see you soon.
Okay.
Thanks for calling.
All right.
Good evening, you're on.
Oh, hi.
Hi, Mark.
Welcome back.
Dana here.
Hi.
I have some anomalies in the phone system that can be used to the consumer's advantage.
Oh, boy.
Can I reveal them here lest anyone from 9X be listening?
Oh, people from 9X never listen to anything, so don't worry about it.
Okay, fine.
When they disconnect outgoing service now, they give you a dial tone.
They didn't used to do that.
They used to just make your line go dead when outgoing service was there.
I mean, when outgoing service was disconnected.
Right.
Now they give you a dial tone, and they try and convince you with a recording when you
dial a seven-digit exchange.
Right.
But you can't dial anything but 911 and your 9X billing center.
You can call 800 numbers.
That's right.
You can dial 800 numbers.
And now they have these $5 long-distance cards that allow you to get access to various
leased lines via 800 numbers, and you can make local calls on these cards.
So if you have $5 of long-distance credit, you can dial a long-distance number for about
half the per-minute charge.
I have a question.
And basically, you know, there's really no loss of access at all.
I have a question for you.
What happens if you call 1-800-CALL-INFO, that MCI service that charges 75 cents for information?
I haven't tried that, but I have sort of another related thing to tell you about, which
is when you call directory, I'm not really sure, but maybe you guys know.
I'll bat that all along.
When you call directory assistance in New York and you ask for a company with, say, an
out-of-state number, a New Jersey number, like if you call New York Information asking
for New Jersey Transit, you can now have them dial the number automatically when you get
the voicemail response phone number.
Even if you have no long-distance service, you can get the New Jersey number because they
give you an open line.
Maybe you should explain that a little bit.
Okay.
If you call 411 here in Manhattan and you ask for the number for New Jersey Transit, they
will tell you that the number is a 201 number and then you can press the, I'm sorry, I left
something out.
You can press the star key to have the number dialed automatically for you.
And even if you have no long-distance service, they will dial the number and you will get
through.
Well, there's a very simple reason for that.
Northern New Jersey, the 201 area code is part of the same local calling area as New York
City is.
But if you don't do it via this line, you can't do it.
They will tell you that your long-distance service has been blocked.
Ah, but in order to call the 201 area code, you do not have to call long-distance because
technically it's not.
Well, it doesn't show up on your 9X bill though, does it?
What you do is that if you, normally if you dial just 1201, it'll go through your long-distance
carrier.
But technically, Northern New Jersey, the whole 201 area code is part of the same LADA,
the same local access transport area as New York City.
It's known as LADA 132.
Wow.
Which technically says that, well, when they laid out the actual LADA boundaries for what's
considered inter-exchange and what's considered local, they didn't fall on area code boundaries.
Wow.
Or even state boundaries.
Just the boundaries they had designed.
Right.
And if anyone knows a little trivia, the local access transport areas, the way that they were
derived is from something that marketing analysts use called a Standard Metropolitan Statistical
Area, an SMSA.
And those are based on the census taken by the government.
And basically, long, long ago when they actually laid out the lay of the land and divided up the
whole country into LADA's, it had absolutely nothing to do with a local phone company or
area code or state boundary.
It's strictly its own boundary in and of itself.
So if you had, so if New York information gave you, say, a 404 area code, which is Georgia,
one would not be able to get through if one didn't have long distance service?
I don't think you could do that.
I don't think they would allow that, would they?
If you try to, say again?
Okay.
How can you get a 404 number?
If you press the star key after getting a phone number from New York information, it
happened to be an out-of-state number that they gave you?
Right.
If you press the star key to have the number dialed automatically, is the line that they
give you to do that a sufficiently open line that would allow you to dial, say, something
in Georgia?
I'm willing to say that it won't work.
It won't work.
All right.
You're free to try it, but it makes perfect sense with Jersey, because if you want to
be able to call anyone out there, if they want to call Northern New Jersey, the 201 area
code, and they want to be billed by 9X, so you're not subject to all the AT&T tariff
charges and things like that, you simply dial 10 NYT, which is 10698, plus 1 201, the prefix
and the suffix, which the flip side of that, which they advertise all the time, in New
Jersey, people in 201 who want to call Manhattan and surrounding areas of New York City, they
dial 10 NJB.
You see those ads, and you hear them on the radio all the time.
It's beyond me why 9X does not advertise 10 NYT.
I've never seen a commercial or heard something on the radio about it.
They probably don't know about it.
I don't know.
I have some 9X stories I want to tell people, but thanks for the call.
Thank you.
As you recall, last week, I had quite an adventure getting through to them, as far as just getting
them to pick up the phone.
That was the big challenge last week, to get them to pick up the phone and take the information.
Now, get this.
I have flat rate service, which a lot of people here cannot get.
Flat rate service allows you to call something in your exchange without being billed either
a per call or a timed rate.
Now, if I'm not mistaken, that does not exist in New York, right?
No, flat rate is not a normal class of service in the city.
Okay, but it is where I am, and I subscribe to it, and I pay an extra $10 for this service
on this particular phone line.
So imagine my surprise when I looked at my phone bill on the exact same page, that little
boxed area that tells you how many calls to particular ladders there are.
And everything in my ladder was added up.
You know, everything in my own exchange, which I knew was being made, I knew that calls were
only being made to that exchange because that's the kind of line I had.
It was being billed twice.
I was paying for flat rate, and I was paying for every call.
So I wanted to tell them this, and it took forever to get through.
I finally did get through, and they couldn't figure it out.
And then a couple of days later, I got a call from them saying they were going to credit
me something like $75 for this.
And I just have to wonder how many people out there are being hoodwinked like this.
You know, I don't know why it's happening, but it's the same company.
You know, they are the ones that define your service, and yet they're billing you for the
wrong service.
It's not like one company isn't talking to another.
I mean, I had a horror story trying to switch one line over to AT&T once.
It just went on for months.
You know, AT&T kept switching it, 9X kept switching it back, and I was in the middle saying,
look, guys, switch the line.
This is what I want.
And it's like, you don't enter into this.
You know, you're just the customer.
Stay out of it.
But this is just 9X.
This is 9X billing you the wrong way for something clearly saying on the same page that they're
not supposed to bill you for it.
So folks, check your phone bills.
Check them a lot, because there's all kinds of mistakes going on out there.
If I can get $75 worth of credit in two months for mistakes like this, I'm sure there are
bigger mistakes going on.
So that's my 9X peeve for now.
But, boy, you know, every time, and you know this, Mark, you've dealt with 9X enough times
working over at Echo.
Yeah.
And anybody that tries to provide internet service has dealt with 9X.
I don't understand what it is they do.
You know, how has it managed to get every little small detail wrong?
I mean, are they running like a gambling operation on the side or something that they're devoting
all their attention to, and this phone thing is just something on the side that, you know...
I think too many people are just under-trained.
And I found out that since I've been away, whenever they've had to get some new phone lines
installed at Echo, rather than just calling a normal lineman or normal installation guy,
a lot of the times the guy would get there and he wouldn't have the proper equipment with
him, he wouldn't properly test the lines and things like that if there was a problem, and
it was just a lot of headaches.
So at Echo, what they were doing is something that's kind of irregular, but it does work to
their advantage is that they were calling a special services technician.
Now, for people that don't know, a normal telephone line, normal POTS service, even if you have
a dozen lines, it's not considered a special service.
A special service might be considered a lease line for a network connection.
It could be considered 800 service.
It could be considered any number of things.
Basically, any service that isn't POTS, plain old telephone service, can be classified as
a special service.
Now, there's all different types of departments and sub-departments within the special services
division, but the people that work for special services tend to be much better trained to
handle all different types of situations.
They're really the technicians that are out there doing really technical things.
Right.
When you get someone that knows what they're doing, it's like a breath of fresh air.
One time, I remember I had a number changed, and the clods put the wrong number on the intercept
recording, someone else's phone number.
So, anyone calling me would say that, would hear that my number was changed to some other
guy over in New Jersey or something.
And, you know, I had to tell them, look, this is bad, okay?
People are calling me, and they're getting the wrong number, and I don't know why you
people did this.
Can you please fix it?
And, you know, the standard response, if I got through to a person at all, was to simply
wait, you know, a couple of days for this to work.
Is this when you had, you mean you had a change notice, what the number was changed to?
Yeah, a change, and finally I got through to a human that understood what I was talking
about.
Really?
He fixed it while I was on the phone.
Wow.
They can do this.
They can do amazing things if they know what they're doing, you know?
Definitely.
Uh-huh.
You want me to read this?
You want me to read this?
Okay.
This over here.
Okay.
Recently, 9X went on a hiring spree for a temporary limited-time phone tech.
The only prerequisite.
The only prerequisite was a high school diploma.
No experience necessary.
Wow.
You know the people that they're hiring on.
Yeah.
Well, that explains something, anyway.
I mean, I don't understand it, but it is a monopoly, and when that stops, maybe we'll
get some competent service.
I do know, I read in the paper the other day, Cablevision is starting to provide various
services, link-ups to the internet, for instance.
Wow.
Time Warner will be providing local dial tone here in New York City for businesses fairly
soon.
That's interesting, because at home, we have cable, and we're American Cablevision of Queens,
which has since been absorbed by Time Warner over the past few years, and I noticed something
interesting.
Our cable boxes are different now.
They're a lot smaller, and they're made by another company altogether.
Actually, if anybody's curious, I live in Queens, and previously they always used Tocom boxes,
and now they began using Gerald General Instrument boxes.
Everyone uses those boxes now.
Really, and I noticed something interesting.
I looked at this new cable box for the first time.
I'd never seen one before.
I looked on the back, and guess what?
What?
There was a little tiny hole, and right above that hole, it said, phone.
Really?
So, it seems, I don't know if there's hardware in the box for a phone connection, or whether
they're planning to have a phone connection in the future, but there was an unused jack
in the back.
I don't know if it's connected to anything.
It did say phone.
That's something.
Okay, everyone out there, start turning over your cable boxes looking for that little
word that says phone there.
Maybe that's, I mean, I've got one of those too, but I never looked there.
So, I'll look too, and see if it says phone on mine.
That's a hint of things to come, I guess.
Okay, 212-279-3400.
We only have about 15 minutes left here on the Welcome Home Show of Fiber Optic, and
you'll be with us in the weeks ahead.
Definitely.
Hopefully, we'll have all kinds of special subjects to speak about.
There's so much that's happened since you went away, and it's impossible to get into
it all here, but there's so many changes.
I mean, in recent elections alone, spell out all kinds of rather ominous things that
could be ahead of us.
We'll just have to see what that means.
I have a personal question.
Yes.
There's something that I missed that I heard a little about.
Did this Pitaki guy ever return Giuliani's phone call?
I heard.
I heard this on the radio that he said that he would talk to Giuliani if Giuliani would
call during business hours.
And you have to warn that, you know, oh, this guy is going to be a lot of fun.
This guy is going to be just great to have around.
It's what has happened in the past couple of weeks with the election.
I mean, I don't understand what people are thinking.
I'm just spouting off here.
This is my own personal view.
But what is wrong with people out there?
They elect people that are in the back pockets of developers.
They elect people that are responsible for killing the health care bill, which most people
seem to want.
They elect people that are against things like the Brady bill, which, again, most people
seem to want.
They say that they're sick of all this negative campaigning.
And they elect the people that are the most vicious of all.
I don't know what's going through people's minds.
I really don't.
And maybe it's just like a sense of adventure.
It's like, well, let's elect Conan the Barbarian and see what happens.
You know, it's going to be fun.
We're all going to take a nice long ride into hell.
And, you know, I guess there'll be some bonding going on.
But what has happened is a lot more ominous, in my view, than all of Reagan-Bush put together.
Because here you have, for the first time, Congress being controlled by Republicans.
First time in something like 40 years.
And if Clinton loses the next election, you don't know what's going to happen.
I mean, basically, anything Jesse Helms wants, Jesse Helms will get.
Anything Aldamato wants, you know, these guys will be running the most powerful country
in the world.
Oh, it's going to be interesting.
Okay, let's try one of those phone numbers again.
And then we'll take a couple more phone calls.
All right.
We have a dial tone?
All right.
Searching for interesting recordings.
We're going to have to enter our special code there.
We're sorry.
Your call cannot be completed with the access code you dialed.
Please check the code and dial again, or ask your long-distance company for assistance.
All right.
That's your standard long-distance access code thing.
Now, I'm confused.
All right.
Was that from the number we called, or was that...
No, that was the number we called, because if you recall, the one below that gave us that
950 recording.
Right.
So, let me go one above that and see if we get something similar.
And again, for those of you that want to join the fun, all of this can be found in the
916 exchange in the 201 area code.
We're sorry.
The long-distance company access code you dialed must be preceded by the digits 950.
Please hang up and try your call again.
See, that's the exact opposite of the recording we got before.
That recording said, don't dial 950.
This recording says, do dial 950.
I've never gotten that.
I don't know how you would get that recording.
I really don't.
But yeah, if you check out the 916 exchange in the 201 area code, 9914 through 9937, you'll
get all kinds of interesting recordings.
Maybe some other parts of that exchange, too.
Okay, let's take some phone calls.
Good evening.
You're on.
Hi.
How are you doing?
Yeah.
I was just wondering what you had to say or advice, opinions, whatever, for people who
are not necessarily, you know, in the 20th century, but nevertheless know who Emanuel Goldstein
really is and that kind of thing.
Wait, wait.
For example, like with 9X, one of your favorite topics, when I moved to where I live currently,
I had some crossed lines, apparently, when the phone was put in, calls that I was receiving
I simply did not receive, and calls that were being made from some local attorney were
being billed to my number.
So I had about 150 calls, a couple of which were to other states and, you know, in even
the relatively local ones, the counties that I had never made.
So I called 9X, asked them about it.
They said, okay, we'll send you, you know, a listing of the calls, and you circle the calls
you claim you didn't make, and we'll take care of it.
So they sent me a list.
You know, they acknowledged there were crossed wires.
You know, I have a document saying they came out and fixed the crossed wires.
And so there were about 40 calls listed, 30 were calls that I had not made, and the following
10 were calls I had made.
It was, I didn't have to, like, you know, pick and choose.
They were straightforward.
After a certain date, they were all mine.
Prior to that, they were not calls I made.
So I called 9X, and they told me, all right, we'll send you an itemized bill, and itemized
listing of the calls, and as I say, there were about 40 calls, as opposed to the 150 had
been charged for.
So I called them and asked why there were only 40 listed.
They told me that if the calls are under three minutes, they're not on that list.
I said, well, okay, whatever.
But there's also a couple of long-distance calls.
So they owe me about $40, $45.
And so they said, well, all right, circle the calls, send them to Ms. So-and-so in, appropriately
enough, Valhalla, New York.
Yeah, that's where that main operation is.
And I sent that in, never heard anything, and have made about a half dozen calls since
then.
And I'm just, you know, what I'm getting at for this type of problem, if you're not
a master solster engineer over the phone, who do you ask for?
You know, I've asked for supervisors, and they say, well, there is no supervisor.
You know, it's kind of like, you know, who's in charge here?
Aren't you?
You know, it's like, nobody's in charge.
Well, this is what I tell people to do.
If you call the 890-1100 number, which is what you're supposed to call for phone bills,
and you don't get through right away, by right away, I mean within five minutes, or if you
keep getting hung up upon, or if you're not getting a straight answer from anybody, just
forget that, and call the President's Hotline, which is open 24 hours, and they take more
of an interest, because they know if you don't get satisfaction from them, you're going to
go to the next step, which is the Public Service Commission, and they can get into a lot of
trouble from that.
So again, the number for the President's Hotline is 800-722-2300.
722, that's interesting, 2300.
Yeah, call them, explain to them exactly what you explained to me, and they...
And this is known officially as the President's Hotline.
Yeah.
That's how whoever answers the phone would know it as.
Yeah, that's what they call it.
And explain exactly what happened, and, you know, if they don't give you satisfaction,
which, you know, you're much more likely to get satisfaction from them, but if they don't,
the next step is to go to the Public Service Commission.
They're only open until 4.30, though, and they're at 800-342-3377.
800-342-3377.
7-7.
C-3-7-7.
Yeah.
And just to finish up and let someone else on here, you know, this is the type of thing
people need, you know, idiots like me who really don't know anything.
You know, a booklet, a book, whatever, that kind of just gets into the basic lowdown.
It can get kind of technical if it wants to, but also kind of in the non-technical realm,
or halfway in between just saying, look, this is what a trunk line is.
This is what, you know, A-N-A, A-N-O means, A-N-I, you know, all these things.
Just have it condensed into one book, and I'd imagine there'd be quite, I'd buy it, you know,
something with just sort of, you know, you know, phones and computers for idiots, for
complete idiots, for intelligent but ignorant people.
You know, that's something that I would find very useful, and I would imagine there's
probably a couple million people in the country, not to mention outside the country, you'd find
something like that very useful.
I agree.
So that's something for you and your friend, who I'm glad is out of jail, to think about,
I would guess.
Well, maybe we'll put our heads together on something like this, but yeah, I do agree.
I think that there is a need for something like that.
No, because you pick up articles even in, you know, 2600 or whatever, and it's like, if you
don't know what you're talking about, or they're talking about, it's, you know, it's all Greek
to you.
Right.
Well, I mean, that sort of caters to a different audience.
Those are people that have already gotten to a certain step.
As I say, I would not be surprised if there were not quite a number of people who just
like, you know, a basic primer, you know, might be kindergarten level to something like
fiber optic, but it might be college level to people that don't know anything, and including
phone companies, you know, just like what you told me, the president's hotline,
you know, just, just, just lay it all out, you know, in a book.
Okay.
Of course, keep in mind that this, these things are constantly changing.
Right, right.
Numbers are always changing.
It'd be absolutely in maybe three months, but at least the, some of the fundamental ideas
would remain sound.
Okay.
Listen, thanks for the suggestion.
Okay.
Thank you.
Take care.
Speaking of things always changing, Fiber, this is something that wasn't true when you went
in, and now it's true.
No more New York telephone.
Yeah, that's right.
9X trucks everywhere.
What do you think?
I mean, it must look shockingly different to see all this.
Well, I, I did see my first 9X truck yesterday, and tell you the truth, it looks exactly the
same, only it says 9X instead of New York telephone with a bell symbol.
Uh-huh.
But I did, when, when I went away, I was aware that various of the regional bell operating
companies were consolidating and financially were referring to themselves as regional holding
companies as opposed to regional bell operating companies, though they still technically use the
same old term, since it was so well-known.
Well, you can say Arbok, you can't say, you can't say R-hook.
No.
It just doesn't have that ring to it.
All right, let's take another phone call.
Good evening.
You're on.
Hello.
Uh, I kind of called again.
The fellow was looking for, like, phone systems for idiots type of book.
Yeah.
Uh, it's, uh, something I had gotten from a friend of mine, Engineering and Operations
in the Bell System.
Yeah.
I, I have that book myself, only, uh, I think that goes, uh, well above and beyond the idiot
level.
Yeah, it does.
Well, it, it even, I mean, it goes to the history.
If it's like, it's great telephone trivia to start with.
Right.
Definitely so.
That's why I've basically, you know, primed myself before I came in contact with the 2600 and
you guys, and it's just, it's a, it's a good introduction for some people, but I might find
it a bit intimidating.
Yeah, it is.
I mean, it's a big textbook and there's lots of, uh, acronyms and terms.
And I mean, while it is, uh, a really great book to read for, for the history of how, how
and when they developed various things that they did, I think it's, uh, probably still
too highly technical in that there should be a book that simply explains, uh, really simple
and common acronyms and just, uh, ground level stuff.
Yeah, I agree.
Thanks for the call.
Definitely.
Bye.
I think also that that book should be from a hacker perspective only because, uh, we seem
to have a true appreciation for these things, you know, in kind of our, our semi-mischievous
way of looking at it all.
Uh, that sort of speaks to, uh, to human nature.
You know, we don't, we don't want to be, uh, just, uh, filled with rules and regulations.
We want to know what's really going on, you know, how does it really work?
What happens if you do this?
What's the worst thing that can possibly happen?
You know, how flimsy is this system?
How incompetent are the people running it?
Things like that, you know, because deep down we all understand that.
Good evening.
You're on.
Hello.
How you doing?
Yeah.
I would like to know that I have someone going on my line in the basement.
How would I get a device to detect that?
Uh, well, a lot of phones these days will light up if somebody picks up an extension unless,
of course, well, even if they disconnect your line from, uh, from the, uh, the actual line
coming in, your line, your phone will light up if it's either unplugged or in use.
Uh, that's the simplest way.
There are other more complex things you can do.
I don't have a phone.
It beeps when they hang up.
Okay, yeah, that's, that's basically the same thing.
Oh, not when they hook on, it's when they hang up.
It does beep a little bit, probably.
You probably just don't hear it.
Yeah.
That's, uh, the voltage, uh, change there.
Well, it may or may not, and, uh, I don't, I don't know if Radio Shack sells something
like this, but I know what other companies do, but, um.
A voltage change is the same.
A device for a voltage change?
Yeah, I mean, uh, simply something that, say, uh, might light up when somebody picks up
an extension.
There's lots of little doodads that accomplish that purpose.
Although, again, it would be difficult if somebody, like, like Emmanuel said, if somebody
was in your basement and they removed your wires from the terminals themselves in the
junction box and then clipped on, uh, I mean, you know, any, any extensions in your house
simply aren't connected anymore, so you're not going to be able to detect anything.
Well, when that happens on, on the phones I have, the phone will light up, indicating
there's no phone line attached.
Oh, okay.
So that will tell you something.
But you should also know that, uh, the phone company itself does tests on your line, which
will cause that very thing.
It will cause your phone to either light up or make a chirping sound.
Right.
Every, every couple of days, or sometimes daily, there's, uh, a system called Predictor used
by NYNEX that, uh, usually really late at night, it, uh, it makes the rounds through, uh, there's,
uh, about half a dozen to a dozen Predictor computers that handle, uh, probably all in New
York State.
And what they do is that they'd systematically test each and every, each and every phone line
sequentially one by one.
And, uh, what it'll do is, well, it uses a system called mechanized loop testing and
it'll automatically test all these lines that it has basically jurisdiction over and, uh,
any faults that it finds, like, uh, a short in the line or anything at all, it'll make
a note of it.
And, uh, if anyone out there has ever been suspicious of, uh, maybe they saw a New York
telephone or a NYNEX employee up on the telephone pole servicing their line or possibly
Four in the morning.
Right.
Or even somebody showing up at your doorstep saying that they're going to be, uh, doing
some maintenance work and you never called them.
That's the reason.
It was because some fault was automatically detected.
Now, this is because my phone calls, it's been, you know, I had long distance calls, which
was my call.
Right.
I'm getting more calls than I make.
Well, it's not necessarily somebody in your basement.
Lots of times the phone company messes up and just wires you into another house.
That just happened to a friend of mine.
He had somebody else's phone, uh, show up in, in, in his house.
And the way to tell right away, of course, is to dial the ANAC number, which in our area
is 958.
That'll tell you what your phone number is.
If he didn't know that number though, he would just merrily go on making long distance
phone calls on someone else's bill.
Well, the question is too, I mean, you could usually tell if someone is actually using your
line for fraudulent purposes by clipping on in your basement or whatever the case may
be, you can usually tell by where the phone calls are too.
If you're noticing lots of calls to South America or the Caribbean or strange places
in Africa or Asia, you know that somebody's doing it for fraudulent intentions.
But they make local calls though.
You can make local calls for fraudulent purposes too.
That's true, but it's usually, uh, less of a problem than if someone is, uh, you know,
if you're literally getting hundreds of dollars worth of calls tacked onto your bill.
Listen, this is an interesting discussion, but we're going to have to cut it short because
we're out of time.
We're out of time.
I can't believe all this time went by so quickly.
Wow.
Extra 45 minutes, but, uh, it still went extremely fast.
Um, well again, I want to say welcome back fiber.
I'm sure everybody listening right now wants to say the same thing.
Um, and hopefully, uh, we'll see you here every week, you know, answering all kinds of
questions and, uh, being a part of this all over again.
And, uh, I don't know, any final words before we, uh, we turn it over?
All I can say again is that it's really great to be back and I look forward to being here
weeks in the future.
Okay.
Well, it's, it's good to have you back in the flesh.
So, um, we'll see you in future weeks.
We'll be back again next week, uh, for our regular time slot, 10 to 11 PM.
Robert Knight's up next.
This is WBAI New York.
Thanks everybody for listening.
Thanks for supporting us as, uh, we went through this difficult ordeal and let's now look
to the future.
The telephone keeps ringing.
So I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving.
Now I can't make a cough.
It couldn't get much worse.
But if they could, they would.
Bum, dilly, bum, but the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood.
Bum, dilly, bum!
Thanksgiving is here and that means many of you will be home this Thursday morning to
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Well, besides two of Barbara Nimri Aziz's favorite vegetarian recipes, we'll have a special for
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A visit with Audrey Shabas at a recent Patterson School district workshop.
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We're Ferris Mooth Hall.
O defined tonight happens.
Now he's there.
The Mighty Sparrow School.
There's art there assassins that he acts as, in the history of his
house.
aches, it's red all around now, kissing instasions really just as the
espectacle
as the mics
are
the