and you are listening to radio station wba i in new york it's time once again for off the hook
the telephone keeps ringing so i ripped it off the wall i cut myself while shaving now i can't make a call
it couldn't get much worse but if they could they would
but i best expect the worst i hope that's understood
and good evening everybody this is off the hook emmanuel goldstein with you for the next
hour from 10 o'clock to 11 o'clock here on listener sponsored wba i in new york
it's been a bloody week in cyberspace we have no less than four major stories we're working on right
now and no end in sight stay tuned
looking back
on the track
on a little green back
got to find just a kind
i'm not losing my mind
outside in the night
outside in the day
looking back
on the track
gonna do it my way
outside in the night
outside in the day
looking back
on the track
gonna do it my way
looking back
Looking for some happiness
But there's only loneliness to find
Jumping left, turning right
Looking upstairs, looking right
Looking for some happiness
But there's only loneliness to find
Jumping left, turning right
Looking upstairs, looking behind
Looking back on the track
With a little green back
Got to find just a line
I'm losing my mind
On a side in the night
I was starting today
Looking back on the track
Gonna do it my way
Looking back on the track
For a little, little green back
Got to find just a kind
I'm losing my mind
All right
Looking for some happiness
But there's only loneliness to find
Jumping left, turning right
Looking upstairs, looking right
Yes, it's been a very busy week for us here in the hacker world.
As I'm sure many of you know, by simply looking at a newspaper, a lot has been going on.
Well, we have the obvious story of Kevin Mitnick, which is what the bulk of the program is going to be about
When we have some not-so-obvious stories that maybe you don't know about
Or maybe you've just heard little bits and pieces
So, we're going to start off with something that you might not have heard anything at all about
And that's the situation in Finland
That's right, Finland
The home of an anonymous remailer
Which is something that a lot of people on the internet use to send sensitive information back and forth
The idea is this
You basically send somebody a message
You send it to Finland
And they disguise your ID
In other words, they take away your name
They strip your name away from it
And they remail it
With an anonymous identification number
And then the person is able to mail back to that anonymous identification number
And it's forwarded again through the anonymous remailer back to you
Well, that all worked just great
Fine and dandy
Until
Last week
When
Under the direction
And this is where it gets kind of bizarre
Under the direction of the Church of Scientology
That's right
Agents of Interpol
That's an agency we haven't really dealt with yet
But I guess we will now
They actually presented a search warrant
To the anonymous remailer in Finland
And they were able to find out someone's real address
According to the system operator
He had a choice of basically letting all the information out
Or letting the information out for just one user ID
So he chose the latter
Of course, what this does
Is this makes the anonymous remailer pretty much useless
I don't know anybody in their right mind
That would use an anonymous remailer
After something like that happened
Or that particular one
What we're going to do is
Basically run over a chronology of events
This is dated February 18th
The investigators of Bureau of Investigations in Helsinki
Known otherwise as the police
Have confiscated sender information
From a link on the internet in Helsinki
The police took information a week ago
From the server maintained by Panetic Incorporated of Finland
From which people could send anonymous messages
And information throughout the world
The police acted upon a request of investigation
Made by the International Church of Scientology
The headquarters of the Church of Scientology
Claim that an unknown person
Has penetrated into the computer system
Of the church itself
In the United States
And has stolen a report
That is classified as
Business security
Yeah
According to the announcement made by the Scientologists
The illegal data has been spread on the internet
Starting on January 23rd
And the Helsinki server has been used
To distribute the data
Just to keep in mind
These are the same people that are trying to sue Netcom
For allowing discussion of the Church of Scientology
To take place on the internet
And they're also trying to shut down a news group
Called alt.religion.scientology
And of course
As is typical in the computer hacker world
Or just the computer world in general
Once you draw attention to something like that
Its popularity skyrockets
And of course now hundreds of thousands of people
Are reading alt.religion.scientology
And I'm sure a lot more have just written it down
So
That's the kind of people we're dealing with right here
That's without even getting into any Scientology
Whatever it is they stand for
The server allows people to send material to the net
Showing only a numerical ID as a sender
A real place of origin is left to the server logs
With which the sender can be traced
The lawyer for the Church of Scientology in Finland
Mr. Rusi Savanin
Suspects in the announcement
That the person who hacked into the
Church of Scientology computer system
Is possibly the same person who sent this mail
Through anon.penit.fi
Which is the email address for the anonymous
Remailer
At least the person who spread this information
Knows from where and from whom
He or she has gotten the information
The police grounded their search and information
Confiscation by the fact that the sender
Suspected of unauthorized use of a computer
The president of Panetic Incorporated
Mr. Johan Helsingius
Says that he hadn't any other possibility
Than to give the information requested to the police
Otherwise the police would have confiscated
The whole machine he says
Police got a sample of so-called login
Log information
Is what they call here
Okay log information
Which was delivered to the police in Los Angeles
Via Interpol
Police stopped the investigation of this case last Monday
According to the investigation
No one has committed a crime
At least in Finland
The investigator assigned to this case
Mr. Kaj Malmberg
Says that the information gathered
From the anon.penit.fi logs
Doesn't necessarily lead to the real sender
You can only see the information
That the sender has given to himself
I suspect that the information
Gained from the server won't lead us anywhere
Also the maintainer of the anon server
Thinks that tracing the real sender is hard
A technically skilled person
Can register with false names
Helsingius thinks
The actions taken by the police are principally remarkable
As supposedly the first time the police broke the anonymity shield
Of any anonymous server on the internet
There are about 20 anonymous servers operating in the world
But the police haven't visited any of the others
The person hunted by the Scientologist
Has also delivered troublesome information
That is troublesome for the church
To the internet before
According to the information gained by Helsingius
Few anonymous servers have been silencing the Scientology criticism
After the church's lawyers have been pressuring the maintainers
Of the services with their letters
The church of Scientology says
The reasons have been the copyright violations
Helsingius wonders also
According to his knowledge
The lawyer for the Scientologist
You see Savanen
Has gotten the information
Which the police confiscated
Keep in mind this is a translation
So some of these sentences are kind of weird
Savanen called my lawyer
And asked what the internet codes meant
Referring to the log file
Helsingian Sanomat did not reach
You see Savalainen for his comments
And that's pretty much everything that's relevant here
It's kind of scary when you see Interpol getting involved in all this
And when you see anonymous re-mailers get
For all intents and purposes shut down
FiberOptik, welcome
Would you use an anonymous re-mailer?
Personally I've never really had much of a need to
But with all this talk of Interpol
It reminds me of something out of The Naked Lunch
Agents of the Interzone
So now we're going to have to start worrying about
Giant talking cockroaches and things like that
Yeah, might be a lot closer than we think
But it's sobering
I'll say that when you can't even count on anonymity
How do you think they work?
They basically kept a list of everybody
That sent in e-mail to them?
I think apparently what they must have been doing
Normally the way a re-mailer works
Is that it strips off the header
The original header of the message
And it tacks on the header of
I mean all it's really doing is looking at the body
So it's re-mailing the message
So that the recipient of the message is preserved
And they get the message
And where it says that it's coming from
Is the address of the re-mailer itself
So but at the same
It would be nice if that's all it did
But unfortunately lots of nosy people
Like logging their anonymous re-mailer
So they're not so anonymous anymore
Or for people that want to
Say for example the way
Anon.penit.fi worked
Is that you could actually register with it
So your particular site
Or it doesn't necessarily as was stated
Doesn't have to be a real site
You could directly connect to the mail port
At Pennit
And register a fake e-mail address
So that that fake e-mail address
Is recognized by Pennit
And you wouldn't actually exist anywhere in particular
And so I mean that's how you could
Basically get around the logging
So while they're logging
They're not really logging a real site
What I'm wondering is
Did they take every step they could have possibly taken
To keep that information secret
Could they have encrypted it somehow
So that when someone came
We could have done that
Why they didn't
If they truly wanted to remain anonymous
Is a mystery
Why do they want to keep logs like that available
I think if anything
If I was someone maintaining an anonymous re-mailer
That's the last information I want to keep online
Because that would make me a target
I think it boils down to the same reason
A lot of these things boil down to
Sloppiness
People get lazy
They keep logs for their own convenience
Not realizing that those logs
Will also be a boon to their biggest enemies
And computer hackers are probably
Among the leading offenders in that regard
They keep track of everything
And they keep nice neat little logs
Of who they talk to
And what they get from certain people
Authorities love this kind of thing
And they love to misinterpret it
They love to do whatever it is
They feel needs to be done with this information
And now unfortunately
It's gotten into the hands of
Interpol, the Church of Scientology
Federal government in our country
And in Finland
This is information that supposedly
Was anonymous
Well, there is no anonymity on the net
As I think we're starting to learn
At least not yet
Now we have a breaking story
That is taking place
Right now actually
We don't know all that much
About this yet
But this could be
A continuation of what started last week
With the capture of Kevin Mitnick
As of this morning
There have been raids
In several cities
In the United States
I've heard up to 10 cities
But we've gotten confirmation
On Philadelphia
Seattle
Illinois
Part of Illinois that is
And parts of Texas
Supposedly other people are involved
Again, we're just learning about this
One very interesting thing
In the few cases that we've heard
These are the three things
That the federal authorities
Said they were interested in
A. Conspiracy
Of course, you know
They're always interested in conspiracy
Sure
B. Cellular information
And of course, that was a big thing
With Kevin Mitnick
Was the alleged cellular information
They found on various accounts
And this is the big one
Money laundering
Now, that's a brand new one
We've never seen a charge
Of money laundering before
I'm not even sure I understand
What money laundering is
Or how it would relate
To something like this
And the people I spoke to
Were completely baffled
As to what these guys
Were talking about
When they said they had
Some sort of evidence
Of money laundering
Or were looking into
Money laundering
Any hint of a clue
As to what that could be about?
Well, I mean
As far as my understanding goes
Of what money laundering means
I believe it means
Money that was gotten through
Illicit means
Which has then been converted
Either by using it
To buy merchandise
Which would obscure the origin
Of the illicit profit
What that has to do with
Hackers, I don't know
Unless, of course
Some of the people in question
Were selling stolen merchandise
Okay, but isn't that
Pretty much theft?
And selling stolen
I mean, that's a crime
In itself right there
This money laundering
Is just
Yeah, it sounds kind of nebulous
I don't know exactly
What they're trying to
It's what they charge
Organized criminals
Yeah, exactly
Organized crime people
Always being charged
With money laundering
Yeah, you'd hear that
In conjunction with
Racketeering
Right, and I'm sure
We're going to be hearing
That word again too
Okay, the other major story
Again, let's update people
On that
Raids taking place this morning
Under the auspices
Of the FBI
Not the Secret Service
The FBI this time
Targeting people
With cellular information
May or may not be tied
Into the Kevin Mitnick case
I suspect it might be
I suspect all of these
Are kind of tied together
In some way
I suspect that
To a certain degree
They might be suspicious
About that certain
Million dollar cellular software
That might have leaked out
Or so they think
Right
And I think
To a degree
They might be
Searching around
Looking for people
That they think
Are involved in
Advanced cellular programming
That might have gotten
In contact with
Either Kevin
Or people like Kevin
Who may or may not
Have been in possession
Of this certain
Expensive cellular software
It's incredible
The lengths they'll go to
To control knowledge
The paranoia is high
This isn't about
Selling things
At least with Kevin
This is not about
Selling things
This is about
Curiosity, learning
You know
Figuring it all out
Accessing things
That's really what
The thread is
Make no mistake
About that
Well the other story
Before we get to Kevin
Has to do with the
Particular tale of
Pornography on the internet
In all.sex.stories
A few weeks ago
This guy named
Jake Baker
Posted a story
About this girl
That supposedly was
A real person
At his school
And it was all kinds
Of
I actually was able
To get a copy
Of the story
I managed to
Get onto the news
Group
In fact anyone
Out there can do
This too
Alt.sex.stories
And they're being
Reposted in various
Places
And you can read it
For yourself
And see what
You think of it
Which I think is
Always the best way
To judge something
What's interesting
Is the reaction
A lot of people
Are giving
To seeing the story
Being posted
They think that
The entire net
Will be shut down
By federal authorities
Because we're posting
A story that's illegal
Well let's make
Some things clear here
A story is not illegal
Now perhaps this person
Can be found guilty
Of threatening somebody
Using their name
In a fictitious story
That ends in violence
And murder
Maybe that can be
Constituted as a threat
I don't think it's right
To be putting the person
In federal prison
Which is where he wound up
For writing a story
You know if it can be found
That he actually
Was threatening this person
Then that's one thing
Right there
Writing a fictitious story
About somebody
Even if it's a real person
Or a real name
Or a similar name
Or what have you
It just seems
A bit heavy handed
It seems like
They're taking a few
A few major steps
Against free speech there
I don't know
It's a tough one to call
I mean the university
Certainly has the right
To do certain things
If students act inappropriately
But when you get
The federal authorities
Throwing people in prison
For posting something
On the internet
Think about it
Where can this lead
It's rather scary
So anyway
I managed to get that story
Hopefully I'm not in trouble
Now for reading it
It's giving me some ideas though
And yeah
It's a story
You'll be seeing a lot more of
In various places
There's an article
In Time this week
Oh speaking of media
There's
I believe you're in Newsweek
This week
I think I'm in Time
Concerning
Yeah
Concerning the whole
Mitnick hacker
Type of thing
Oh
I haven't seen it yet
Well actually
You're the one
That told me
You were in Newsweek
Oh
But yet I still
Haven't seen it
I haven't seen mine either
I'm not sure
If it's actually happening
There was an interesting
Piece last Tuesday
Last Sunday
Rather
On the news
About cellular monitoring
Which was kind of fun
Yeah
Where we were
Driving around the expressway
Doing all kinds of
Weird things
I think it drove home
The point rather well
That cellular phones
Are not secure
Hopefully people
Will heed that advice
If you're going to talk
In a cellular phone
Be aware
That there are people
Listening
And they won't all
Be as nice as we are
And next Sunday
Oh boy
Next Sunday
Is the one we look forward to
You want to tell them Fiber?
Yeah
Next Sunday
Supposedly
They're finally going to show
The interview that we did
With that
That men of men
Mike Wallace
Yeah
On 60 Minutes
I'm still in awe
Of being questioned
Mercilessly
By Mike Wallace
Of all people
You know
But isn't it true
Mr. Goldstein
That you defend
Child pornography
And bestiality
On the net
That's what the whole
Purpose of the internet is
Oh I broke down
And confessed right there
I mean
I wouldn't have
Confessed anything
In fact you clarify
That the internet
Is nothing but
Government funded
Child pornography
That's right
Democratically funded
Yeah so that's going to be
On this Sunday
Who knows
What they're going to
Make us say on that
It's going to be
Kind of interesting
It's going to be
Kind of interesting
That's 60 Minutes
This week
Okay now
To the story
Kevin Mitnick
Last week we reported this
And we even scooped
The New York Times
On that one
But
It's rather disturbing
The way this whole thing
Came about
There's
Lots and lots of talk
About this on the net
And various other forums
Kevin Mitnick
Was captured in
Raleigh
North Carolina
His cellular
Path was
Traced
By
Computers that he was
Allegedly logging into
To the apartment
That he was staying in
Now
What they are saying here
Is simply remarkable
There's basically
Three
Things that they are saying
He did right off the bat
Now remember
We had no idea
Why he was on the run
Every time we asked
And we've been asking this
For over a year
We were told that
He violated probation
Okay great
Why did he violate probation
What did he do
You know we never
Would get an answer
It's like they wanted
To just lock this guy up
For some reason
And in my last conversations
With Kevin
It seemed that
He didn't really understand it either
He just knew that
He had to keep
One step ahead of them
Or something horrible
Would happen
And unfortunately
He wasn't able to keep
That far ahead of them
As
As
As he had hoped to
Okay
What everybody is hearing
In the media
Is that
Kevin stole
20,000 credit card numbers
From Netcom
20,000 credit card numbers
That's a lot of credit cards there
Now
The real story
And I don't know why
This didn't come out
In the newspaper
Because this has been publicized
I mean I happen to know
The people who write these stories
Read 2600
And in 2600
In the autumn issue
We said very clearly
The Netcom
Credit card file
Has been compromised
It has been copied
People are looking at it
It's all over the place
Common knowledge
On the internet
It was posted on
IRC of all places
It was everywhere
So
They find this particular file
In someone's account
Or an account
That someone has alleged to frequent
And they say
This is the person
That did it
Well
Whether or not
He had a copy of it or not
The file was out there
It was everywhere
It was not hard to get
So
It's
It's an exaggeration
At best
A lie
At worst
As to
Kevin's
Stealing
These
These
These credit cards
If you read
About 16 paragraphs
Into the story
Though it does say
That Kevin
Did not use
Any of these cards
There was no
Allegation that he did
There was no
Allegation that he ever
Caused any harm
In fact
It was just somebody
That they really
Wanted to get
And they wanted
To get badly
Okay
So the major thing
That most people
Have heard
Is that this is the guy
That stole credit card numbers
And that's
What convicts him
In the eyes of most people
The fact that someone
Could steal your credit card number
Well it's a personal thing then
You see
They're reaching into your pocket
Grabbing your numbers
That's
That's not good
So that's
Major media exaggeration
Right there
Now another thing
That they said he did
Was they said he left
Taunting messages
In the voicemail system
Of the
The scientist
That he
Allegedly
Took cellular software
From
And
Of course
We're talking about
Shimamura
What's his first name?
Tsutama
Tsutama
Tsutama Shimamura
Now
I happen to hear
These messages
I got copies
Of the
Of the messages
That Shimamura posted
On the net
It's not Kevin Mitnick
It's not his voice
And
Well let's just say
We know it's not Kevin
It's definitely
In fact
I think we should mention
There are at least two people
In each of the calls
There are at least two people
In each of the calls
And
It wasn't really like Kevin
To
To
Play phone pranks
On the phone
With other people
It just didn't seem
In this style
But
Regardless
Neither one of those people
Is Kevin
I think
A lot of people
In the hacker world
Can
Verify that
So
That's another major thing
Right there
He didn't taunt
The person
He didn't take
The credit cards
At least he wasn't
The first person
To access them
If they
If they were even
Taken by him
The other thing now
Is
The software itself
The
Security software
That was found
In this guy's account
In San Diego
The scientist's account
What do you think of that
What's your take on
All that
Well if there's any truth
To the fact that
Shimomura was
Programming
Security tools
For
Such
Shady characters
As the National Security Agency
Then
I'm sure that the government
Would consider
These security tools
To be of a sensitive nature
But
Truth be told
Anything that
Kevin may or may not
Have found
On Shimomura's machine
Is certainly not anything
From another planet
It's
Something that
Could have been written
By most anyone
Granted
They were developed
By
The human being
Known as
Tsutomo Shimomura
So
Obviously
It's not
Out of the realm
Of possibility
That
In reality
Any proficient
Programmer
Knowledgeable in security
Could have written
Such tools
The fact that
Kevin
May have gotten
Them off his machine
I think is irrelevant
Because
Anyone in the know
Is capable
Of
Performing
What's known
Lately
In the media
As spoofing
It's certainly
Very disturbing
To see this kind of thing
Happen to somebody
And to realize that
They really want
Blood this time
They really want to
To put him away
And teach
A lesson to the rest of us
And if you just look
A little deeper
Into this story
You realize that
There's so much more
To this
Than is being reported
Even though
There's been so much
Press on this
Recently
On the phone
With us
A good friend
Of Kevin Mitnick's
From
As far back
As the 1970s
And you know
Actually
I don't really know
How I should
Introduce this person
So I'm going to
Let him introduce himself
The friend of
Kevin Mitnick
Are you there?
Hello
Go ahead
Hi
What shall we call you?
Dave Harrison
I've known Kevin
Since I think
1979
Okay
And what was he like
Back then?
Just your
Inquisitive teenager
It's
Very
Just interested
In the technology
Around him
One thing
I'd like to say
Right off
The top
Is in all the years
I've known him
I've never known him
To do anything malicious
Or do anything
For profit
Or for financial gain
He's just always
Been inquisitive
And you know
I think whatever
He's done
Has basically been
For the challenge
Of doing it
Now I assume
You read the book
Cyberpunk
That was a third
About Kevin Mitnick
No
I read bits and pieces
Of it
What do you think
Of the earlier
Media allegations
As to what Kevin
Was like
Not counting
What happened
Last week
You mean Mr. Fatburger
I think
Blown way out
Of proportion
I don't know
They're just giving
A lot of coverage
To this
And I guess
It's because
The internet
Is such a buzzword
These days
You know
And you see
All the bad stories
About CompuServe
America Online
I guess it just makes
You know
Good press
To make somebody
Out to be a bad boy
To keep the rest
Of us in line
Right
You know
I think there are
A lot worse people
Out there
That the government
Should be concentrating
On nailing
You know
I know
When Kevin
Was on his probation
Here
He was doing
Really well
It just
It always seemed
To me
The way he was
The way he was
Talking about
Things going on
In his life
That there were
A couple of the guys
That were out
To get him
Because they were
Very
The government
Seemed to be
Dissatisfied
With the sentencing
And the probation
He got
And you know
I know he had
Mentioned once
That
He just had
A funny feeling
That one minute
Before his probation
Ended
They were going
To get him
For something
Do you know
What the circumstances
Were initially
When they said
He was wanted
For violating
Probation
No
All I heard
Was that
He was
Supposedly
Getting some
Information
From DMV
You know
I don't know
How he would
Do that
I know he
Wasn't using
A computer
Or a modem
In all the time
That we spent
Together
When he was
On probation
And anything
Anything else
You know
I don't know
You know
Just like I
Say
It's just
It just
I guess
They just
Try to
Make an example
Out of him
Just as you
Said earlier
When was the
Last time
You had
Contact with
Him
A couple
Of months
A couple
Of months ago
Our group
Has a
Weekly user
Group meeting
At a local
Deli
And he knows
This because
This has been
Going on
For many
Many years
And you know
He's called
Me a couple
Of times
Just to let
Me know
That he was
Okay
And you know
That he was
Still looking
Over his
Shoulder
Did you get
The sense
That he
Didn't think
That capture
Was inevitable
Yeah I guess
It's hard to
Say because
He never
Really sounded
Worried or
Anything like
That but
You know he
Was always
Kind of you
Know wondering
What was going
On if
If anybody
Had talked
To anybody
You know if
Any questions
Had been asked
Of course you
Know
Now this is
Where it gets
Interesting because
Last week
Actually maybe
About ten days
Ago when I
When I had
The last of my
Series of
Conversations
With him
He was very
Concerned because
He had
Information
And his
Information was
Almost always
Impeccable
He had
Information that
The New York
Times reporter
John Markoff
Was writing a
Story about him
And he wanted
To know
What he was
Writing a story
About
I mean this
Is the same
Reporter that put
Him on page
One back in
The summer time
Just to say
He was on the
Run
Now when's
The last time
You saw an
Article in the
New York
Times in the
Front page
With somebody's
Picture saying
By the way
This guy's on
The run
Hasn't done
Anything in
The last
Year or so
And nothing
Really has
Happened but
He's just
On the run
Keep an eye
Out for him
So he
Had good
Information that
Another article
Was being
Written and
He wanted to
Know what
Exactly that
Was all about
And he had
Asked me if I
Had heard
Anything and
I had not
And we were
Both trying to
Figure out what
This was all
About and of
Course well this
Is what it
Was all about
Apparently
Some people
Had some
Advanced
Knowledge this
Was going to
Be happening
Does that
Surprise you
No not at
All I've
Also heard
That he's
Writing a
He's writing
A book so
Maybe you know
By putting
By just
Keeping all
This out in
The news it
Probably helped
His sales
Well it's
Going to make
One heck of
A film now
And what
You say
Could be
True
I mean if
A book
Comes out
Anytime soon
I guess
That would
Confirm that
But it's
It's weird
How this
Whole thing
Developed
Apparently
This Times
Reporter was
Part of the
Whole process
And that's
What we're
Learning by
Hearing how
The whole
Scenario
Came down
In the
First place
The tracking
Process
Involved
Satuma
Srimamora
Which I
Would
Expected to
Involve
Because he
Was the
Person
That feels
He was
Wrong by
Kevin
And various
Members of
Netcom
And the
Well which
Is a
West Coast
Internet
Provider
And the
FBI of
Course
And various
Other agencies
But if
A journalist
Actually takes
Part in the
Search
It seems to
Me that's a
Step over the
Journalistic
Line
I mean
Reporting is
One thing
But making
It happen
What I'm
Wondering
The question
I keep
Asking
Myself
Is how
Much of
Kevin
Mitnick
Was built
In the
New York
Times
How many
Articles
Have we
Read about
Kevin
Mitnick
That did
Not come
From the
New York
Times
That were
Based on
Other
Information
It seems
That everything
We learn
About Kevin
Comes from
One source
And that's
A source
That's selling
A book
And perhaps
A movie
About this
Person
I mean
What does
That say
Every article
I've read
It's always
Quoted the
New York
Times
Source
And in
Fact a lot
Of the
Articles
In our
Local papers
In LA
Have been
Reprints
Of New
York
Times
Articles
And as
To your
Question
When was
The last
Time you
Saw somebody
On the
Front page
I think
It was
In a
1952
Movie
Which movie
Was that
No it was
A fictional
Movie where
They show
The newspaper
Oh I see
What you're
Saying
Sorry I'm
A little
Tired
That's
The way
It is
Now
Fantasy
Is becoming
Reality
Interesting
Point about
Netcom
And the
Credit cards
Yes
I've been
Trying to
Follow some
Of the
News groups
And granted
There are
Thousands
Of messages
But there
Are some
People in
The news
Groups
That have
Mentioned
That one
Guy said
That his
Friend had
His credit
Card number
Flashed on
IRC
And this
Was long
Before
They alleged
Kevin
You know
Quote
Stole the
File
Right
That probably
Happened back
In the
Summertime
When that
Was happening
To quite
A few
People
The file
Had been
Compromised
We tried
To tell
People
And netcom
Denied it
It was posted
In netcom
And I
General
And they
Denied it
They said
It didn't
Happen
Yeah
Well it
Did
Because I
Think I
Was one
Of the
Victims
I had
My visa
Number
Used
And I
Was very
Very careful
In using
It myself
Not doing
Any mail
Order
Anything
Like that
The only
Person that
Had it
Where it
Was vulnerable
Was netcom
And I
Got dinged
For 290
Bucks
Not a
Great deal
Of money
But multiply
That by
5 or 10
Thousand cards
Over the
Next 5
Years
And you
Got a
Tremendous
Amount of
Fraud
There
Well it
Seems pretty
Obvious
And if
People
Haven't
Already
Figured
This out
If you
Use netcom
If you
Use a
Credit card
On netcom
Your credit
Card is
Out there
So I
Would
Suggest
People
Cancel
Those
Credit card
Numbers
And get
New ones
Because
Don't
Blame
Kevin
This
Really
Doesn't
Have
Anything
To
Do
With
Kevin
Right
This
Happened
A
While
Ago
This
File
Has
Been
Out
You're
Only
Hearing
About
It
Now
Because
Netcom
Chose
To
Mention
It
Now
I
Don't
Know
What
We
Have
To
Do
To
Get
The
Word
Out
On
Certain
Things
Like
This
And
Netcom
Unfortunately
Has
Been
Notoriously
Bad
As far
As
Security
As far
As
Fixing
Things
That
Are
Broken
And
This
Is
Not
Just
Me
Speaking
Here
This
Is
From
Everything
I've
Seen
On
The
Net
We've
Had
Cases
Of
All
Kinds
Of
Net
Forgeries
On
The
Use
Net
Over
The
Past
Several
Months
Every
Single
One
Of
Them
Came
From
Netcom
Every
Single
One
Of
Can
Be
Attributed
To
Netcom
Carelessness
As far
As
Letting
Their
Passwords
Get
Out
Letting
Their
Accounts
Be
Used
By
All
Kinds
Of
Unauthorized
People
Now
Yeah
These
Are
Hackers
Being
Upset
By
This
Kind
Of
Thing
You
Stormtroopers
Stomping
Around
Kicking
In
People's
Doors
And
Sending
Folks
Away
To
Prison
And
That
Goes
For
All
The
Players
In
These
Particular
Games
As
Far
As
Netcom
Goes
Though
They
Have
Potential
To
Be
A
Good
Service
But
From
What
They
Are
Doing
They
Don't
Seem
To
Care
Enough
To
Communicate
With
People
One
Case
In
Point
I
Hear
Many
Times
People
Trying
To
Cancel
Their
Accounts
And
They
Can't
Do
It
They
Say
Please
Stop
Billing
Me
And
Every
Month
They
Still
Get
Billed
On
Their
Credit
Card
By
Netcom
After
They
Tell
Them
That
They
Don't
Want
To
Be
Billed
Anymore
I've
Seen
A lot
Of
Complaints
Of
This
On
The
Net
Too
So
You
Have
To
Wonder
What
Are
These
People
Thinking
Five
Are
You
An
Internet
Provider
Or
You
Help
Run
An
Internet
Provider
In
New
York
You
Think
You
Think
You'd
Last
Very
Long
If
You
Did
Things
Like
That
Certainly
Not
And
Especially
Not
If
We
Were
Broken
Into
As
Many
Times
As
Netcom
Has
And
Pretended
It
Didn't
Happen
I
Mean
That
That's
Not
The
Way
To
Go
Yeah
They
Seem
To
Have
A
Policy
Of
Deny
Deny
Deny
Cover
Up
Cover
Up
Cover
Up
Yeah
Deny
Or
Just
Say
Yeah
Yes
That
Was
Hilarious
Such
Propaganda
And
Now
That
Kevin
Is
In
Custody
Everyone's
Troubles
Are
Over
And
Netcom
Helped
That
Happen
Yeah
Let's
Let's
Blame
All
Of
Our
Troubles
Up
Until
Last
Week
On
Kevin
Anything
That
Happened
Anywhere
You
Know
I
Had
Heartburn
Yesterday
I
Think
Kevin
Did
It
Yeah
Kevin
Did
It
Well
I
Been
Telling
People
My
Sticky
S
Key
Hasn't
Been
Sticking
In
The
Last
Week
Oh
You
Know
So
I
Think
That
Maybe
It
Had
Something
To
Do
With
That
Hey
Phone
Rates
Went
Up
In
California
On
January
1st
By
A couple
Dollars
A line
It's
Kevin's
fault
Kevin
Yeah
Oh
Boy
You
You
Know
One of
The
Last
Conversations
I
Had
With
Them
He
Was
Joking
About
Just
That
He
Was
Saying
They
Might
As
Well
Blame
World
Hunger
On
Me
I
Might
As
Take
Responsibility
For
That
Too
He
Always
Had
A
Sense
Of
Humor
Yeah
Is
That
Not
True
Actually
I
Think
Fox
Is
Blaming
Their
Poor
Schedule
On
Him
Too
Their
Poor
Ratings
I
Wish
Kevin
Could
Hear
This
Actually
Okay
We're
Going
To
Take
Some
Phone
Calls
212
279
3400
We're
On
The
Phone
With
Dave
Harrison
Is
It
Yes
Sir
Okay
And
You've
Been
A
Friend
Of
Kevin
Mitnick's
Since
The
1970s
How
Did
You
First
Meet
Him
We
Were
Running
I
Hate
To
Say
This
Because
I'm
A
Lot
Older
Now
But
In
My
Younger
Days
We
Set
Up
The
First
Recorded
Phone
Sex
Line
In
You
A
True
Pioneer
Then
Look
How
The
Stories
You
Know
We
Have
A
Number
Of
Different
Stories
On
The
Tapes
And
We
Changed
The
Tapes
Once
A
Week
And
That's
How
I
Met
Kevin
And
A
Number
Of
Other
People
They
Were
Just
Very
Curious
And
Interested
As
To
What
The
Equipment
Was
We
Were
Using
Who
We
Were
We
Just
Got
To
Be
Good
Friends
After
That
That
That
Was
Quite
An
Interesting
Period
In
My
Life
Good
Evening
That
Line
Is
No
Good
Good
Evening
You're
On
The
Air
Hi
Emmanuel
Emmanuel
Yes
Hey
It's
Oh
I'm
Glad I
Got
Through
I'm
All
The
Way
Upstate
Here
You're
All
The
Way
Upstate
And
There's
No
Way
You
Could
Have
Heard
What
I
Just
Said
Is
No
I
Don't
Mean
To
To
Talk
About
Other
Subject
But
I
Don't
Know
What
The
Subject
Is
Tonight
The
Subject
Okay
It's
Good
To
Hear
Your
Voice
It
Really
Is
Especially
Over
The
Phone
But
Do
You
Hear
Did
You
Hear
Anything
Upstate
About
Kevin
Mitnick
No
In
Fact
You
People
Up
Here
Really
Don't
Know
Much
About
Phones
And
Computers
And
Well
Then
It's
Up
To
You
To
Educate
Them
I
I'm
Trying
To
Do
That
Okay
Well
You
Need
To
Do
You
You're
On
The
Net
Right
We
Can
Only
Do
Email
That
That
That
That
That
That
That
That
That
That
That
That
That
And
You
Know
Speaking
Of
Things
But
Now
That
You
Mentioned
Somebody
Like
Kevin
Mitnick
You
Know
I
I
Did
Something
With
The
School
Computer
That
I
Don't
Think
You
Should
Talk
About
I
Really
Don't
Think
You
Should
Talk
About
What
You
Done
With
The
School
Computer
Or
The
School
Phone
Or
Or
Area
Utica
New York
It
Right
Next
To
Syracuse
It
Is
In
The
Central
Part
Of
The
State
For
Those
Who
Are
Wondering
And
The
Way
The
Phones
Work
Here
Is
That
They
Do
Not
Have
11
Numbers
In
Other
Words
To
Dial
Information
You
Cannot
Dial
411
You
Can
Only
Dial
555
1212
Okay
Unfortunately
This
Is
Can I
Just
Mention
Quickly
Very
Very
Quickly
Okay
We
Have
A lot
Of
Other
People
Waiting
All
Right
The
Star
Numbers
Work
When
Your
Phone
Is
Disconnected
You
Know
When
You
Don't
Pay
Your
Phone
Bill
They
Restrict
Your
Phone
From
Outgoing
Calls
Except
For
890
Numbers
And
911
You
Can
Dial
Start
Not
Like
If
Somebody
Calls
You
You
You
Can
Star
699
Well
That's
One
Way
Of
Making
Have
To
Move
On
Good
Luck
Up
There
Hate
Being
Rude
But
There's
No
Other
Way
You
Know
I
Assume
Everyone
Else
Is
Listening
To
The
Show
Okay
Good
Evening
You're
On
The
Air
Hello
Let
Let me
Shut
Off
My
Radio
Please
Okay
That's
A good
Sign
That means
He's
Listening
If
He has
A radio
To
Turn
Off
Very
Good
Sign
Yes
Concerning
Kevin
Mitnick
I
Just
Have
This
Certain
Inclination
Is
Probably
Like
A
Prime
Threat
To
The
New
World
Order
You
Know
All
This
Technology
Is
Being
Used
To
Basically
Control
Everybody
Or
They
Would
Like
To
Use
It
In
That
Particular
Manner
Well
Like I
Said
He's
A
Living
Monkey
Wrench
And
Let's
Put
It
This
Way
I
Hate
To
Have
To
Bring
This
Up
But
Something
May
Happen
To
Him
And
It
May
Look
Like
An
Accident
You
Really
A
World
We
Do
Live
In
A
World
That's
For
Sure
All
Right
Well
Thanks
Thanks
For
The
Info
Okay
Bye
All
Right
Kevin
A tinfoil
Hat
To
Protect
Him
Yeah
I
Don't
Know
I
Like
To
Think
That
There
Are
Some
Elements
Still
In
Place
That
Might
See
To
It
That
Justice
Is
Heard
In
The
End
I
Don't
Know
That
With
All
This
Hype
It's
Very
Difficult
To
Believe
That
But
By
The
Emanuel
Do
You
Know
The
Last
Time
Kevin
Was
In
The
Federal
Pokey
In
Downtown
LA
And
Also
I
Think
Out
In
Lompoc
He
Met
Ivan
Boski
And
Barry
Minco
The
Z
Best
Carpet
Cleaning
King
Yes
Yes
That's
The
Kind
Of
Class
The
Feds
Give
Him
You
Know
They
Put
Him
Right
Up
There
With
The
Guys
That
Are
The
Real
Criminals
Well
They
Up
They
Had
Him
In
The
Middle
Of
A
Room
With
Guards
Around
They
Would
Dial
The
Number
And
Hand
Him
The
Handset
They
Wouldn't
Even
Let
Him
Dial
The
Phone
Himself
Or
Use
A
Pay
Phone
That's
How
Much
Of
A
Threat
They
Thought
The
Guy
Is
Now
What
The
Heck
Can
A
Computer
Hacker
Do
From
A
Phone
Without
A
Computer
Now
I
Saw
A
Quote
From
Sutama
Shimomura
This
Is
The
Genius
Scientist
That
Is
Capable
Of
Configuring
Cellular
Software
With
His
Mind
And
All
Kinds
Of
Amazing
Things
There
You
Know
He
Is
Like
A
Regular
Vulcan
Of
Information
And
He
Believes
In
Godzilla
And
He
Said
Maybe
I
Don't
Know
He
Said
In
The
Paper
That
Kevin
Was
Not
Allowed
To
Make
Phone
Calls
Because
If
He
Was
Allowed
To
Use
A
Phone
He
Could
Erase
Vital
Files
Now
Can
Someone
Please
Take a
Running
Jump
On
That
Leap
Of
Logic
And
Tell
Me
What
He
Means
How
Can
You
Erase
Files
Over
A
Telephone
With
Your
Voice
We
Could
Have
Whistled
Modem
Tones
Yeah
That's
It
Yeah
I
Think
Kevin
Last
Time
Was
Practicing
He
Got
Up
To
4800
Baud
Really
His
Parody
Was
Off
He
Was
6
No
1
Instead
Of
801
Oh
Is
That
So
I
Don't
Know
We
Have
To
Be
Really
Really
Careful
With
What
We
Allow
To
Be
To
Be
Believed
Here
Some
Of
This
Is
Just
Absolutely
Incredible
Let's
Go
Back
To
The
Phones
Good
Evening
You're
On
The
Air
Yeah
I
Think
One
Of
The
Things
That's
Going
To
Be
Dangerous
For
Kevin
Is
That
People
In
The
Criminal
Justice
System
They
Don't
Know
Too
Much
About
Computers
And
So
They're
Deathly
Afraid
Of
Them
I
Don't
Know
That
Much
About
Computers
Either
But
Before
I
Went
To
Prison
I
Worked
As
A
Word
Processor
And
So
I
Know
How
To
Use
Some
Applications
That's
It
I
Type
85
Words
A
Minute
That's
The
Limit
Of
How
Good
I
Can
Work
Computers
When
I
Went
To
The
Parole
Board
My
Crime
Didn't
Have
Anything
Amazing
You
You
Raise
A
Very
Good
Point
In
That
A
Lot
Of
This
Is
Based
On
Fear
A
Lot
Of
People's
Reactions
Against
Kevin
Is
Based
On
Their
Worst
Case
Scenario
Of
What
Could
Happen
To
Their
Credit
Card
What
Could
Happen
To
Their
Credit
Rating
What
Could
Happen
To
Their
Computers
And
I
Think
The
Authorities
And
To
A
Degree
The
Scientific
Community
Is
Also
Reacting
In
This
Way
They
See
The
Net
As
Something
Which
Is
Not
Totally
Controllable
They
Don't
Have
A
Handle
On
It
They
Don't
Have
A
Handle
On
Any
Of
This
Technology
And
Somebody
Could
Really
Mess
Things
Up
If
They
Were
Malicious
And
Then
They
Transpose
All
Of
This
On
To
Kevin
And
They
Say
This
Is
The
Person
That
Represents
All
The
Evil
That
There
Is
In
The
Computer
World
So
We
Have
To
Punish
Him
As
If
He
Was
Marquita
Side
Of
Hacking
And
They
Can
Also
Give
The
Impression
That
In
Fact
They
Do
Have
Things
Under
Control
There
Are
A
A
Few
Nasty
People
Out
There
That
Might
Be
A
Threat
But
Thank
God
We
Have
The
Police
To
Track
Down
People
Like
That
And
Give
Them
Their
Just
Desserts
Yes
Well
Said
Thanks
For
The
Take
Good
Evening
You
On
Off
The
Hook
Yeah
Hi
I
Want to
Comment
You
Mentioned
John
Markoff
Yes
It's
One
Of
The
Quote
One
Of
Things
He
Wrote
In
The
Times
That
Made
Me
Really
Ill
It
Was
Basically
The
Fact
That
Kevin's
Last
Blow
Was
A
Fatal
Blow
To
The
Well
And
Nearly
Destroyed
The
Community
It
Served
And
You
Read
On
The
Next
Page
Of
The
Last
Near
Paragraph
That
The
Act
Of
Destroying
The
He
Did
Not
Almost
Destroy
The
Well
It
Was
One
Accounting
File
And
They
Believed
It
Was
Some
Sort
Of
A
Typographical
Error
And
There
Was
Never
Any
Threat
To
The
System
And
These
Are
The
System
Operators
Telling
Us
This
And
I
Happened
To
Believe
Them
Because
Unlike
Netcom
The
Well
Has
Always
Been
Very
Forthright
As
As far
As
As
When
There's
A
Problem
Right
But
Of
Of
It
Was
In
The
Business
Section
The
Front
Page
So
Everyone
Probably
Read
That
Never
Read
The
Retraction
And
Of
Course
Kevin
Seems
To
Be
This
Bad
Guy
Fader
Exactly
Exactly
Well
You know
The
Screaming
Headlines
Are
What
Sell
Papers
And
If
You're
Able
To
Get
A
Front
Page
Story
About
Something
Like
This
You know
I
Was
Saying
To
Myself
As
I
Was
Walking
Out
Of
The
Studio
Last
Week
We
Had
The
Story
Before
Anybody
Did
Because
We
Were
Told
About
It
By
Some
Other
People
And
Nobody
In
The
Press
Knew
And
I
Was
Saying
To
Myself
You know
It
Would
Be
Interesting
If
Tomorrow's
Paper
Last
Thursday's
Paper
Actually
Has
A
Story
On
This
Because
That
Will
Tell
Us
That
The
Times
Was
Tipped
Off
Well
In
Advance
Well
Not
Only
Did
They
For
Quite
Some
Time
And
It
Goes
On
Even
Further
There's
A
Story
In
Friday's
Paper
There's
A
Story
In
Sunday's
Paper
There's
A
Story
In
Today's
Paper
I
Mean
These
Guys
This
Is
Selling
A
Lot
Of
Newspapers
For
Them
And
But
They
Must
Have
Their
Own
Angle
Though
This
Is
Not
Simply
Sell
Papers
They
Must
Have
Their
Own
Media
Based
Need
To
Control
Information
Well
I
Guess
If
You
Run
A
Newspaper
That
Sort
Of
Well
I
Mean
The
Net
Doesn't
Sell
Papers
It
Sells
Different
Things
I
Guess
They're
Trying
To
Push
This
To
Be
A
Business
Venture
Well
I
Don't
Know
I'm
Not
Trying
To
Analyze
Them
Too
Deeply
I
Just
Know
That
Something
Is
Awfully
Wrong
Here
Because
This
Doesn't
Seem
Like
A
Story
That
Developed
And
Was
Reported
On
By
The
Newspapers
Seemed
To
Be
A
Story
That
Was
Kind
Of
Helped
Along
By
The
Newspapers
And
You
Know
It's
Like
Those
Reality
Based
News
Programs
Where
They
Reenact
Crimes
And
Things
Like
This
Well
In
This
Particular
Case
They're
Kind
Of
Pushing
It
Along
And
Making
It
Happen
Right
In
Front
Of
All
Of
Our
Eyes
It's
Not
Necessarily
Important
That
It
Be
Accurate
Just
That
It
Be
Yes
They
Shut
Down
Monday
Morning
They
Were
Back
Up
Actually
By
Tuesday
So
It
Was
Not
48
Hours
Like
It
Was
Supposed
To
Be
It
Was
For
A
Hardware
Change
And
Also
For
Security
Protection
Of
Various
Sorts
Not
100%
Mitnick
Related
Although
A lot
Of
The
Hysteria
Was
Mitnick
Related
There
Were
Numerous
Break
In
On
Lots
And
Lots
Of
Systems
Throughout
The
Area
Throughout
The
The
Country
Is
So
It
Was
By
No
Means
Restricted
To
The
Well
And
It
Was
By
No
Means
Simply
Because
Of
Kevin
Mitnick
That
The
Internet
Is
Insecure
And
It
Never
Will
Be
Secure
In
The
Way
That
We
Wanted
To
Be
Secure
It
Just
Never
Will
Be
When
I
Saw
The
Story
In
Early
January
In
The
Times
Also
A
Front
Page
Story
About
Internet
Spoofing
We
Discussed
Here
On
The
Radio
What's
Interesting
About
That
Story
Is
That
Apparently
That
Was
The
First
Step
Leading
Towards
Kevin
Mitnick
Blaming
Him
For
The
Spoofing
I
Happen
To
Think
That's
That's
That's
A
Real
Load
Of
Crap
Because
One
Person
Could
Not
Have
Done
All
That
In
The
First
Place
And
I
Don't
Think
It
Was
Kevin
To
Begin
With
That's
Just
My
Personal
Feeling
On
All
All
All
The
Stuff
That
Was
Supposedly
Done
And
Here
He's
Working
Eight
Hours
A
Day
He's
Supposed
To
Be
Hacking
20
Hours
A
Day
Yeah
You
Know
Hacking
Doesn't
Bring
In
Much
Of
A
Salary
So
You
Have
To
Do
Other
Things
As
Well
Yeah
When
Does
He
Sleep
Yeah
Exactly
And
You
Know
When
I
Was
Talking
To
Him
On
The
Phone
He
Wasn't
Playing
With
Computers
At
That
Particular
Time
He
Was
Talking
He
Was
Doing
Various
Other
Things
He
Had
A
Life
You
Know
He
Wasn't
Totally
Enveloped
By
All
Of
This
But
The
Spoofing
Article
Made
It
To
Page
One
Even
Though
That
Kind
Of
Thing
Has
Been
Known
About
For
Quite
Some
Time
Oh
Certainly
In
Fact
When
We
Talked
About
It
I
Known
About
It
For
Some
Years
It
Is
Certainly
Not
Anything
New
On
The
Internet
So
If
You
Had
Written
Up
Something
And
Sent
To
New
York
Times
They
Probably
Wouldn't
Have
Put
On
Page
One
Probably
Not
No
They
Would
Probably
Say
We
We
Failed
To
See
The
Newsworthiness
But
Now
We
Look
At
A
Story
Here
It
Says
Well
A
Couple
Of
Weeks
Ago
In
This
Very
Same
Newspaper
On
Page
One
We
Reported
On
Something
That
Seemed
To
Be
A
Threat
At
The
Time
And
Now
We
Can
Link
It
To
Kevin
Mitnick
It
Seems
Almost
Too
Good
To
Be
True
Here's
Our
Scapegoat
Exactly
Well
I
Don't
Know
Where
It's
Going
To
Lead
From
Here
Any
Predictions
From
You
Dave
Well
We're
Just
Waiting
For
Kevin
To
Get
Back
In
Town
And
Get
In
Contact
First
Because
Well
We
Are
A
Big
State
I
Think
We're
Bigger
Than
North
Carolina
Push
Comes
To
Shove
Yeah
Yeah
And
You
Know
I
Think
If
The
Feds
Don't
Get
What
They
Want
Here
They're
Going
To
Keep
Trying
To
Nail
Him
In
All
The
Places
Where
They
Allege
That
He
Has
He
Has
Lived
And
Quote
Hacked
What's
Important
Is
To
Keep
Everything
In
Perspective
Though
I
Mean
The
People
In
North
Carolina
Want
Him
I
Suppose
For
Using
An
Illegal
Cellular
Phone
And
Logging
Into
Accounts
That
Didn't
Belong
To
Him
But
Put
It
In
Perspective
Here's
A
Guy
On
The
Run
All
Right
Now
Whatever
It
You
Shouldn't
Apply
For
Internet
Access
In
Your
Own
Name
You
Shouldn't
Advertise
Your
Presence
That's
Part
Of
What
Being
A
Fugitive
Is
All
About
All
Right
Now
If
You
Want
To
Be
A
Good
Fugitive
You
Have
To
Sometimes
Bend
Some
Rules
And
Break
Some
Laws
Albeit
Rather
Minor
It's
Kind
Of
Ridiculous
To
Say
Oh
Look
What
This
Guy
Did
In
North
Carolina
I
Yeah
He
Was
Doing
Any
Of
That
I
Think
That's
That's
An
Accomplishment
In
Itself
In
This
Particular
Day
And
Age
I
Guess
The
Biggest
Question
We
Should
Ask
Is
Did
Anybody
See
Him
Do
Anything
I
Mean
Did
Somebody
Look
Over
His
Shoulder
When
He
Was
Transferring
Files
Well
It's
Interesting
You
Should
Say
That
Because
John
Markoff
Appears
To
Have
Seen
Him
Do
Something
Listen
To
This
Quote
From
Page
San
Diego
Supercomputer
Center
He
Said
He
Did
It
He
Doesn't
Say
Allegedly
Did
It
Doesn't
Say
That
Somebody
Else
Said
He
Did
It
This
Is
John
Markoff
On page
One
Of the
New York
Times
Saying
On Christmas
Day
He
Broke
Into
The
Home
Computer
It's
A fact
It
Becomes
John
John
Has
Some
Psychic
Sense
Or
Maybe
He's
A member
Of
Psychic
Friends
Network
And
He
Gets
All
His
Information
That
Way
See
Even
You
Said
Maybe
Yeah
You
See
Some
Of
Us
Might
Be
To
Verify
That
With
Facts
But
We
Would
Say
You
Know
What
The
Facts
Were
This
Is
Not
Reporting
One
Thing
I
Hope
The
Internet
Community
Does
Is
Most
Of
The
People
Have
Prejudged
Kevin
To
Be
Guilty
Based
On
What
They've
Read
In
The
Newspaper
You
Know
He's
Not
OJ
Simpson
He's
He's
Innocent
Until
Proven
Guilty
People
Should
Give
Him
The
Benefit
Of
The
Doubt
He's
Already
Been
Convicted
And
Hanged
On
The
Net
And
This
Is
Wrong
Absolutely
Absolutely
I
Think
As
Somebody
That
Has
Known
Him
For
So
Long
You
Really
Are
Qualified
To
Say
What
Kind
Of
A
Person
He
Is
How
Come
We
Don't
Hear
From
People
Like
This
We
Only
Hear
From
People
That
Feel
They
Know
Kevin
Intimately
When
He
Logs
Into
Their
System
Does
He
Have
Many
Friends
Yeah
He's
Got
Quite
A
Few
Good
Friends
I
Think
It's
The
People
That
Say
The
Negative
Things
Get
The
Press
People
That
Have
Positive
Things
To
Say
About
Kevin
And
His
Manners
And
Just
The
Way
He
Is
That's
Not
News
People
Don't
Want
To
Read
That
Stuff
That's
The
Kind
Of
Stuff
You
See
On
The
Lifestyles
Page
You
Know
Not
The
Front
Page
News
Right
Well
I
Just
Hope
That
The
Details
Do
Get
Out
That
We
Don't
Stop
Talking
About
This
That
We
Keep
Asking
Questions
And
We
Keep
Discussing
It
In
Various
Forums
Both
On
The
Net
And
Off
The
Net
One
Thing
We
Are
Trying
To
Do
Is
Set
Up
A
900
Number
To
Raise
Money
For
His
Defense
Some
Of
His
Friends
In
The
LA
We
Don't
Get
Press
All
Right
I
Can
Imagine
The
Way
The
Press
Is
Going
To
Cover
A
Computer
Hacker
Running
A
900
Number
For
His
Defense
I
Can
Just
See
The
Headlines
Now
I
Don't
Want
To
Think
About
It
If
It
It
It
Way
To
Raise
Money
Go
For
It
Well
You
Know
A
Buck
A
Minute
I
Think
It's
A
Dollar
The
Way
We
Talking
It's
Like
A
Kevin
Gets
A
Buck
You
Know
We
Have
Somebody
Locally
That
Will
Do
All
The
Production
But
A
Lot
Of
Friends
That
Can
Get
The
Information
And
Just
Tell
Our
Side
Of
The
Story
Or
Tell
Kevin
Side
Of
The
Story
And
They'll
Also
I
Think
Be
A
Comment
Or
Feedback
Message
To
His
Attorney
Or
To
Kevin
You
Just
Got
To
Promise
Promise
Us
One
Thing
If
Someone
Hacks
The
System
You
Won't
Come
After
Them
All
Blin
Kevin
Yeah
There
You
Go
Okay
Dave
Harrison
Thank
You
Very
Much
For
Joining
Us
Tonight
And
Thanks
Emmanuel
It's
Nice
Chatting
With
You
Stay
In
Touch
Let
Us
Know
If
You
Hear
Anything
From
Kevin
And
Of
Of
We'll
Do
The
Same
Great
I
Appreciate
It
Okay
Thank
You
Again
And
This
Has
Been
Off
The
Hook
Again
We
Will
Continue
To
Keep
You
Updated
On
The
Kevin
Mitnick
Story
As
Well
As
The
Breaking
Story
About
Federal
Raids
Throughout
The
Country
Today
We
Will
Let
You
Know
As
We
Learn
More
You
Can
Stay
In
Touch
With
Us
By
Writing
To
Us
Here
Off
The
Hook
Here
WBAI
505
8th
Avenue
New
York
New
York
100
18
You
Can
Write
To
Me
Directly
On
The
Well
That's
Right
I'm
Still
There
Emanuel
And
Fiver
How
About
Your
Internet
Address
My
Internet
Address
Is
Fiver
At
Echo
Dot
Net
So
You're
Using
Echo
Dot
Net
Now
I
Kind
Of
Like
It
Better
I
Like
It
A
Lot
Better
All
Right
Well
Thanks
For
Stopping
By
And
We'll
See
How
This
How
This
Story
And
The
Other
Stories
We
Cover
Today
Eventually
Turn
Out
Tune
In
Again
Next
Week
Wednesday
Night
10
O'clock
For
Off
The
Hook
Good
Night
Good
Evening
In
The
News
Tonight
Republicans
Celebrate
The
Halfway
Mark
Of
Their
First
100
Days
In
Control
Of
Congress
British
And
Irish
Leaders
Lay
Out
A
Framework
For
Peace
In
Northern
Ireland
Will
The
Serbs
And
Croats
Renew
Their
Conflict
Now
That
UN
Peacekeepers
Are
Leaving
Croatia
And
In
New
York
City
University
Students
Take
Their
Fight
Against
The
Budget
Acts
To
Court
With
These
And
Other
Stories
I'm
David
Sears
In
New
York
With
Verna
Avery
Brown
In
Washington
And
This
Is
The
News
For
Wednesday
February
22nd
1995
First
To
Washington
For
These
Stories
Topping
The
News
Officials
In
An
East
Georgia
Town
Are
Negotiating
With
Civil
Rights
Leaders
After
The
Officials
Endorsed
A
Ban
Of
Black
Youngsters
From
Local
Businesses
Tony
Phillips
Has
More
From
Atlanta
Officials
Of
Union
Point
Georgia
Agreed
To
Lift
The
Ban
Against
The
21
Youngsters
After
Nearly
A
Half
Day
Of
Negotiations
The
21
Youth
Ranging
In
Ages
From
15
To
19
Were
Prohibited
Admittance
To
The
Local
Stores
And
Businesses
After
Merchants
Of
The
Town
Complained
The
Group
Terrorized
Them
And
Stole
Their
Property
The
Mayor
Of
Union
Point
Endorsed
The
Move
And
In
So
Doing
Set
Off
Local
Youngsters
Say
They
Will
Continue
To
Meet
With
City
Officials
To
Discuss
Pending
Lawsuits
And
Possible
Damages
To
Be
Awarded
As
Part
Of
The
Agreement
Union
Point
Officials
Did
Not
Admit
Any
Wrong
Doing
And
Did
Not
Apologize
NAACP
Officials
Are
Saying
For
That
Reason
They
Will
Continue
Their
Lawsuit
Against
The
Businesses
And
The
City
For
Pacifica
Network
News
I'm
Tony
Phillips
In
Atlanta
President
Clinton
Planned
Strategy
For
The
Next
50
Days
Of
The
Republicans
100
Day
Drive
For
The
Contract
With
America
Clinton
Says
While
He
Agrees
With
Many
Parts
Of
The
Contract
There
Are
Are
Are
Of
Disagreement
As
Well
It
Is
Ironic
That
Here
On
The
50th
Day
Of
This
100
Day
Effort
That
They
Are
Making
To
Put
In
Their
Contract
The
Single
Most
Important
Issue
In
The
World
Of
Seems
To
Cut
The
School
Lunch
Program
And
End
It
The
Republicans
Are
Proposing
To
Slash
The
School
Lunch
Program
And
Fold
The
Monies
Into
State
Block
Grants
At
80
Percent
Of
Current
Funding
Level
House
Speaker
Newt
Gingrich
Says
The
Key
Battle
For
The
Next
50
Days
Will
Be
In
May
Over
The
Budget
The
Core
Question
Should
We
Decide
We're
Going
To
Get
To
A
Balanced
Budget
How
Much
Grandchildren
Gingrich
Says
The
Aim
Is
To
Balance
The
Federal
Budget
By
2002
And
So
There
Must
Be
A
Review
Of
Current
Programs
Such
As
The
Corporation
For
Public
Broadcasting
If
It
Simply
Got
Its
Fair
Share
Of
Money
Out
Of
The
Billion
Dollars
A
Year
That
Sesame
Street
Grosses
And
The
800
Million
Dollars
Year
That
Barney
Grosses
And
The
Several
Hundred
Million
Dollars
That
Of
Massachusetts
Urged
His
Fellow
Republicans
To
Continue
Funding
For
Public
Broadcasting
Cable
Is
Not
A
Substitute
As
Many
Cannot
Afford
Cable
PBS
Reaches
99%
Of
The
Country
Broadcast
Television
Is
Not
The
Answer
Either
As
The
Free
Market
Will
Not
Always
Support
Educational
TV
All
Line
Items
May
Have
To
Take
A
Reduction
But
Let's
Not
Eliminate
A
Key
Part
Of
Our
Public
Education
System
The
House
Appropriation
Subcommittee
Is
Expected
To
Act
Today
To
Reduce
Next
Year's
$300
Million
Budget
For
Public
Broadcasting
The
Nation's
Capital
Is
Sinking
In
A
Sea
Of
Red
Ink
John
Hill
Of
The
U.S.
General
Accounting
Office
Checked
The
Financial
Records
Of
Washington
D.C.
It
Is
Now
Clear
That
The
District
Will
Run
Out
Of
Cash
As
Early
As
This
Summer
In
Fact
The
District
Could
Be
Considered
Insolvent
Since
It
Does
Not
Have
Enough
Cash
To
Pay
All
Of
Its
Bills
And
Future
Sources
Of
Funds
Are
Uncertain
Hill
Warns
If
Current
Spending
Continues
The
District
Of
Columbia
Could
Find
Its
1996
Congressional
Appropriation
To
Be
Zero
Critics
Charge
The
District
Bureaucracy
Is
Bloated
With
One
Employee
For
Every
Ten
Residents
But
D.C.
Mayor
Marion
Barry
Says
The
Financial
Crisis
Arises
From
Many
Problems
Including
The
City's
Inability
To
Tax
Embassies
And
Many
Non-profit
Institutions
In
Florida
The
Family
Of
Slain
Dr.
David
Gunn
Is
Suing
The
Abortion
Clinic
Where
He
Was
Killed
Gunn
Was
Shot
To
Death
In
March
1993
As
He
Arrived
At
The
Pensacola
Women's
Medical
Services
Clinic
The
Family
Charges
The
Clinic
Failed
To
Provide
Adequate
Security
In
Light
Of
The
Death
Threats
Gunn
Had
Received
And
Those
Are
The
Stories
Topping
The
News
With
A
Great
Deal
Of
Fanfare
House
Republicans
Marked
The
Halfway
Point
In
Their
First
100
Days
Of
Congress
And
The
GOP
Pointed
To
The
Fact
That
The
House
Has
Passed
Five
Major
Bills
Of
Its
Ten
Point
Contract
With
America
But
Democrats
Warned
The
Hardest
Part
Of
The
Contract
Is
Yet
To
Come
Pacifica's
Don
Rush
Has
This
Report
Our
Leader
Our
Visionary
The
Speaker
Of
The
House
The
Gentleman
From
Georgia
Newt
Gingrich
Flanked
By
A
Row
Of
American
Flags
House
Speaker
Newt
Gingrich
Beamed
At
The
Republicans
Gathered
To
Celebrate
The
50th
Day
Of
The
Revolution
It's
The
Halfway
Point
And
They
Declared
Their
Contract
With
America
Was
Right
On
Schedule
The
House
Has
Approved
Half
Of
The
Contract
With
Support
From
Many
Democrats
Indeed
A GOP
Handout
Claimed
That
On
Average
60%
Of
House
Democrats
Had
Voted
With
Republicans
And
This
This
Was
Not
Left
Unnoticed
By
The
Speaker
Of
The
House
For
The
First
Time
In
A
Long
Time
You
Do
Not
Have
A
Liberal
Democratic
Leadership
Blocking
From
The
Floor
Issues
In
Which
The
American
People
Feel
Deeply
So
When
You
Finally
Get
To
A
Vote
No
Matter
What
The
Secret
Desire
Of
A
Lot
Of
Liberal
Democrats
Survival
Compels
Them
To
Vote
With
The
American
People
Not
People's
Contract
And
We
Are
Passing
Reforms
The
American
People
Want
And
That
Is
Why
It's
Working
If
I
Can
Ask
The
Governor
To
Help
Me
While
Five
Of
The
Ten
Measures
In
The
Contract
Have
Been
Approved
By
Appears
To
Recognize
Some
Of
The
Problems
Ahead
In
The
Memo
Gingrich
Reportedly
Warns
That
Spending
Cuts
To
Meet
The
Requirements
The
Balanced
Budget
Amendment
Will
Not
Be
Popular
The
Balanced
Budget
Amendment
Has
Passed
The
House
And
Awaits
An
Uncertain
Fate
In
The
Senate
Adding
To
The
Speaker's
Dilemma
Is
A
Set
Of
Tax
Cuts
Proposed
In
The
Contract
John
Judas
With
The
New
Republic
You
Can't
Put
Together
A
Balanced
Budget
Amendment
On
The
One
Hand
And
Enormous
Tax
Cuts
Both
For
The
Most
Wealthy
The
Capital
Gains
Tax
Cut
And
For
The
Middle
Class
Credit
On
Child
Care
They
Just
Don't
Match
In
Order
To
Get
A
Balanced
Budget
From
Those
You
Would
Have
To
Hack
Off
About
Half
Of
The
Government
Including
A
Lot
Of
The
Things
That
The
Republicans
Say
They
Don't
Want
To
Touch
Social
Security
Of
The
Measures
Approved
By
The
House
At
Least
Two
Could
Also
Face
A
Presidential
Veto
A
Crime
Bill
That
Rolls
Back
Money
For
Cops
On
The
Street
And
A
Measure
That
Would
Cut
U.S.
Support
For
United
Nations
Peacekeeping
As
The
Democrats
Mark
The
50th
Day
They
Told
Reporters
The
Easy
Part
Is
Over
President
Clinton
After
A
Meeting
With
Top
Democratic
Party
Leadership
On
Capitol
Hill
We
Have
Been
Willing
To
Work
With
The
Republicans
You
Know
The
Bill
To
Apply
To
Congress
The
Laws
That
Applies
To
The
Private
Sector
Passed
Overwhelmingly
In
The
House
Of
Representatives
With
The
Same
Level
Of
Democratic
Support
As
Republican
Support
The
Bill
To
Reduce
The
Burden
Of
Unfunded
Mandates
On
State
And
Local
Governments
Receive
Large
Democratic
Support
So
We
Want
To
Work
With
The
Republicans
But
We
Have
No
Intentioning
Of
Abandoning
The
American
People
To
Unproven
Theories
And
Extreme
Positions
Indeed
The
Democrats
Came
Out
Swinging
Today
House
Minority
Leader
Dick
Gephard
Blasted
A
Republican
Proposal
To
Eliminate
The
School
Lunch
Program
Calling
It
Mean
Spirited
Gephard
Began
The
Democratic
Assault
On
The
Contract
Welfare
Reform
Defined
His
Voice
This
Week
He
Roundly
Criticized
A
GOP
Contract
Measure
That
Would
Roll
Back
Federal
Environmental
Health
And
Safety
Regulations
Such
Cutbacks
Would
Affect
The
Middle
Class
Whose
Needs
Clinton
Wants
To
Champion
At
The
Same
Time
The
Administration
Turned
Its
Attention
To
Organized
Labor
The
Administration
Promised
To
Issue
An
Executive
Order
That
Would
Prohibit
Government
Contractors
From
Permanently
Replacing
Striking
Workers
John
Judis
Two
Things
He
Worried
About
Shoring
Up
His
Own
Base
Among
Those
Groups
That
Have
Been
Loyal
To
The
Democratic
Party
And
On
The
Other
Hand
He's
Got
To
Worry
About
The
Great
Middle
Ground
And
The
GOP
Appears
To
Be
Looking
For
Ways
To
Create
Wedge
Issues
In
Gingrich's
Strategy
Memo
The
Speaker
Reportedly
Attacks
Affirmative
Action
Barbara
Ehrenreich
Is
A
Columnist
Who
Contributes
To
Time
Magazine
She
Believes
The
Affirmative
Action
Strategy
May
Be
A
Double
Edged
Sword
For
The
Republicans
Affirmative
Action
A lot
Of
People
Are
Saying
Now
Or
Experts
Are
Saying
That
The
Real
Beneficiaries
Of
Affirmative
Action
Have
Been
White
Women
That
Is
The
Wives
Of
White
Male
Construction
Workers
And
Congressmen
And
Whatever
So
I
Think
That
As
Soon
As
The
Gender
Side
Of
That
Issue
Sinks
Into
People's
Heads
There's
Going
To
Be
A
Little
Bit
Rethinking
But
Right
Now
It's
A
Racial
Issue
Don
Rush
Pacific
Network
News
Washington
It's
Not
A
Peace
Plan
But
It's
The
Framework
For
One
After
Decades
Of
Bloody
Conflict
And
Two
Years
Of
Negotiations
Britain
And
Ireland
Today
Unveiled
A
Framework
Document
For
Peace
In
Northern
Ireland
The
15
Page
Outline
Calls
On
The
Irish
Republic
Northern
Ireland
And
It
Would
Allow
Britain
To
Restore
A
Parliament
There
The
Document
Also
Aims
To
Create
A
Cross
Border
Authority
Between
The
British
Ruled
North
And
The
Independent
South
Mile
Muratainen
Is
A
Political
Correspondent
With
The
Irish
Times
Unionists
Have
Reacted
With
Great
Alarm
To
The
Prospect
Of
North
South
Institutions
Because
That
Involves
An
Assembly
In
Northern
Ireland
But
Also
The
Involvement
Of
The
They
Would
Regard
That
As
The
First
Step
On
A
Slippery
Slope
To
A
United
Ireland
Nationalists
On
The
Other
Hand
Would
Welcome
Such
A
Development
Because
They
See
It
As
Coming
Closer
To
Achieving
Their
Particular
Goal
Which
Of
Course
Is
Unity
Tell
Us
Exactly
What
This
Body
Would
Do
Well
Both
Governments
Want
These
New
Institutions
To
Be
Created
To
Cover
A
Range
Of
Are
These
Cross
Border
Bodies
Transport
Industrial
Development
That
Type
Of
Area
Energy
Trade
In
Fact
Everything
But
Security
And
Taxation
These
Cross
Border
Bodies
Would
Consist
Of
Members
From
The
New
Northern
Assembly
Which
Is
Proposed
And
From
The
Parliament
In
Dublin
The
Dole
They
Would
Work
Together
In
This
New
Type
Of
In
These
Fora
To
Develop
Areas
Of
Common
Interest
This
Is
The
First
Time
That
Anything
Like
This
Has
Been
Proposed
Since
The
Foundation
Of
The
State
Or
Since
Partition
Began
70
Years
Ago
Now
The
Irish
Government
Is
Going
To
Put
Forth
A
Proposal
Basically
Relinquishing
Claim
To
Northern
Ireland
And
That's
Obviously
Contrary
To
The
Will
Of
The
Majority
Of
The
People
On
The
Province
Can
A
Cease
Fire
Hold
Under
These
Terms
Well
This
Is
All
Very
Much
Down
The
Road
The
Irish
Government
Has
Said
In
The
Framework
Document
That
It
Is
Prepared
To
Hold
A
Referendum
To
Allow
Constitutional
Changes
The
British
Government
Has
Decided
To
Do
Exactly
The
Same
Even
Though
It
Doesn't
Have
A
Written
Constitution
But
That
It
Would
Implement
The
Legislation
Or
Repeal
The
Necessary
Legislation
Which
Established
The
Northern
Ireland
State
Or
To
Make
Changes
To
That
These
Are
Issues
That
Will
Only
Come
About
In
The
Event
Of
An
Overall
Settlement
We're
Not
Going
To
Face
A
Referendum
Tomorrow
Or
Next
Year
This
Is
At
The
End
Of
A
Final
Settlement
That
All
Of
These
Constitutional
Issues
Will
Be
Put
To
The
People
In
A
Referendum
What
Is
A
Timetable
Here
There
Isn't
One
In
Fact
And
This
Is
The
Unfortunate
Thing
Because
People
Are
Quite
Wary
That
The
Cease
Fires
Are
More
Fragile
Than
We
Would
Like
To
Believe
And
That
If
We
Go
Into
A
Situation
Where
All
Party
Talks
Do
Not
Get
Off
The
Ground
Within
A
Relatively
Short
Space
Of
Time
That
Pressure
Could
Come
On
Those
Cease
Fires
Again
But
There
Is
A
Great
Deal
Of
Optimism
That
In
Fact
They
Will
Hold
The
Process
Towards
Peace
At
This
Point
Given
It
Is
An
Evolutionary
One
Nobody
Can
Say
How
Long
It
Is
Going
To
Take
There
Is
Still
A
Great
Deal
Of
Suspicion
And
Anxiety
In
The
Unionist
Community
That
The
Union
Is
Being
Taken
From
Them
Piece
By
Piece
On
The
Other
Hand
The
Nationalist
Community
Which
Of
Course
Would
Prefer
To
See
United
Ireland
Feel
That
This
Is
Perhaps
A
Step
In
The
Direction
Of
Achieving
Their
Goal
So
It
Depends
On
What
One's
Perspective
Is
But
All
Politicians
With
The
Exception
Of
The
Unionists
Are
Billing
This
Framework
Document
As
A
Major
Step
Forward
In
The
Resolution
Of
What
Has
Been
A
Very
Long
And
Painful
Conflict
In
Northern
Ireland
The
Most
Interesting
Thing
I
Think
Now
Would
Be
To
Look
Forward
To
See
How
Soon
The
All
Party
Talks
Can
Get
Under
Way
Because
This
Morning
We
Had
A
Situation
Where
A
Prominent
Northern
Unionist
Was
Being
Interviewed
On
A
Television
Station
A
Member
Of
Sinn Féin
Walked
Into
The
Station
And
He
Promptly
Left
So
There
Are
Deep
Divisions
Between
The
Communities
Still
Deep
Suspicions
All
Of
These
Have
To
Be
Overcome
And
Only
Time
Will
Do
That
If
There
Is
A
Political
Will
On
Everybody
Part
To
See
An
End
To
The
Conflict
And
To
Come
Up
With
Some
Kind
Of
Settlement
That
Will
Lead
The
Country
Away
From
The
Violence
That
Has
Torn
It
Apart
For
The
Past
25
Years
That
Can
Only
Be
A
Good
Thing
Political
Correspondent
Myel
Muratainan
With
The
Irish
Times
Reaction
To
The
Framework
Has
Been
Swift
Jerry
Adams
Head
Of
The
Shin
Fein
The
Political
Party
Allied
With
The
Irish
Republican
Army
Reportedly
Likes
What
He
Has
He
He
Has
He
Has
It
A
Move
Toward
One
Ireland
But
The
Line
Of
Critics
Was
Longer
Ulster
Union
Lawmaker
David
Trimble
Says
It
Is
Bound
To
Fail
The
Ulster
Union
Represents
The
Largest
Pro
British
Bloc
And
Hardline
Protestant
Leader
The
Reverend
Ian
Paisley
Says
His
People
Will
Break
What
He
Calls
This
Conspiracy
She
Told
Pacifica
That
The
Peace
Framework
Ignores
The
Issue
Of
Justice
And
Self
Determination
For
The
People
Of
Northern
Ireland
President
Clinton
Today
Welcomed
The
Plan
The
Administration
Will
Host
A
Major
Economic
Conference
In
May
To
Encourage
Investment
In
Ireland
To
Boost
The
Economy
And
Further
The
Peace
Process
Croatian
President
Franyo
Tujman
Shocked
The
International
Community
When
He
Announced
That
Croatia
Would
Not
Renew
The
United
Nations
Current
Peacekeeping
Mandate
In
His
Country
Since
The
End
Of
The
1991
Serb
Croat
War
In
Which
Rebel
Serbs
Captured
Almost
A
Third
Of
Croatian
Territory
13,000
UN
Troops
Have
Been
Stationed
Along
The
Confrontation
Lines
In
Croatia
In
Contrast
To
Bosnia
The
UN
Presence
In
Croatia
Has
Helped
Maintain
The
Cease
Fire
Between
The
Warring
Factions
But
As
Paul
Hakanos
Reports
From
The
Croatian
Capital
Of
Zagreb
Many
Observers
Fear
The
Departure
Of
UN
Peacekeepers
Leaders
Cry
I
Had
Eu
deux
I
Who
Out
uds
I
Got
I