information line of various sources. This is one that's geared towards kids. That's right.
I don't know what they're thinking, why kids would be calling up something like this.
But this is an 800 number. Okay, looking for the number right here.
There it is.
Hey, this is the 9X Kids line, your telephonic link to everything you ever wanted to know.
This month, we learn about Call ID, the service that lets people learn your telephone number.
Joey's pizza, we make them fast, we make them flat.
Hey, Joey, I want to order two large pizzas, one with sausage, one with eggplant and tomatoes.
Okay, two pies, one eggplant, tomato, one sausage.
And we want to get...
You want three large iced teas and an orange soda.
Three iced teas. Hey, how'd you know that?
You're calling from 555-3298, right?
555-3298, right!
Hey, what's going on here? You a mind reader or what?
Hey, I'll do you one better. You live at 27 Maplewood Avenue, apartment 5C.
Ooh, play the Twilight Zone music.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no. How'd you know all this?
Hey, you never heard of Call ID?
Call ID? That's a phone thing, right?
Call ID is this service from 9X. I sign up for the service, I buy a little display box, ba-da-bing.
It tells me the phone number of who's calling me.
But the iced tea...
Ah, that's easy. I got the computer here at the store hooked up to the Call ID box.
It looks up your number, tells me what you usually order, and where it's going.
You can learn all that from Call ID.
No, no, Call ID just tells me the phone number.
Oh, so you know the number of everyone who calls, right?
Ah, just about. See, if the caller lives out of the area, I won't see the number,
and some people dial a special code to keep their number private.
But other than that, yeah, I see the number.
Oof, ah, it's amazing. You can see the number of the person calling you.
Hey, that's what Call ID is all about.
Ha!
You get the service from 9X, and you buy the box.
So, uh, this Call ID, it's already making the pizza?
Ha-ha, you nuts!
Uh, 20 years I'm making pizzas. I don't care how smart them phone guys get.
They will never replace me, eh?
I hear you.
I am an artiste.
Call ID service costs extra.
If you want to learn more about Call ID, dial the 9X privacy line.
Sometimes I get these feelings that I don't know what to say
Is it that I don't be angry because I don't really want to stay
Sometimes I wish that you could break up to me
Is this real?
Is this real?
Is this real?
Well, it's pretty unreal to me.
I don't know where they get these actors or what they...
There's really not much you can say about these people.
Is this a monthly thing? They change it every month?
From what I hear, it's a monthly thing.
I thought there was a pretty bad...
That was the worst stereotype since the monkey in the newspaper incident.
Oh, yeah. I mean, the AT&T thing.
Yeah.
That was something there.
Or, yeah, it's pretty bad, I guess.
I don't know. Do they advertise that in various places?
I guess they must.
But I'm sure there's other ones.
It's probably numbers geared towards senior citizens
and immigrants and emigrants and who knows what else.
So that's the latest from 9X
and their politically correct way of dealing with people.
All right.
We have a rather startling story coming out of Pennsylvania
which involves somebody that we know.
And I'm sorry.
I have a rather lengthy fax here
which I'm going to have to plow through to get to the actual story.
When something like this happens,
it just uses up a lot of resources.
Ah, here we go.
Okay.
Sorry about that.
Okay, now, I don't know how many people remember
over the past couple of years
we've had a certain correspondent on the phone with us
quite a few times named Bernie S.
and apparently some rather weird things
have been going on in Pennsylvania
that involved him
and unfortunately he seems to be on the road
towards some kind of smear campaign
based on high technology
and various other misperceptions
much the same way that the fiber optic here
was sent to prison.
Bernie S. was recently arrested too
and the incident surrounding this
is just kind of bizarre to say the least.
The headline on the newspaper yesterday
in the Philadelphia Inquirer said
man charged with phone scheme.
Haverford police say
the defendant possessed high-tech gear
for theft of telecommunications.
Yeah, here we go.
It was a report of a suspected drug deal
in the 7-Eleven parking lot
that brought Haverford police to the scene.
What they found instead
two men pouring over a chapter
in the whole spy catalog
called
How to Locate and Tap Any Telephone
was a lot more interesting.
From that discovery last week
police and federal authorities
have developed an investigation
into high-tech fraud.
One of the two men
Ed Cummings
who is known as Bernie S.
has been arrested and charged
with two counts each
of unlawful use of a computer
and possession of devices
for theft of telecommunications.
Now, let's look at that first count
unlawful use of a computer.
That's really the only time
we're going to hear anything about that
because nowhere
in anything that I've read about this
and I've read quite a bit about it
there's no evidence
of anything having to do
with any computer.
Well, it says he was repairing a computer.
He was repairing a computer.
Perhaps that was the unlawful use.
I don't think so
because that's what he did for a living.
He repaired computers
and did things like that.
You sure he didn't unlawfully repair them?
Well, it doesn't make any
need fixing.
Doesn't make any reference to that.
I don't know.
Well, you should be familiar
with this, Fiber,
where they charge you
with doing something
with a computer
even if you didn't know
you were using a computer
at the time, right?
You can be charged
with unlawfully accessing
or...
Well, I think there has to be
a certain degree of intent
and willful knowledge
to be charged with a trespass
or unauthorized use
of a computer.
Right.
Okay.
In the Villanova room
where Cummings had been staying,
police said they found evidence
of a large-scale operation
in which Cummings allegedly
had been cloning
cellular phone numbers
and converting speed dialers
into red boxes
that can make free calls
from pay phones.
If you recall,
anyone that went to
the Hackers on Planet Earth
conference over the summer,
Bernie S. did have
that cellular software
which allowed you basically
to make an extension
out of your cellular phone.
Yes, you could use it
to clone a cellular phone too,
but that really was the decision
of the person using it.
You can use a knife
to kill someone
or you can use a knife
to do something in the kitchen.
It's really up to you
what you use tools for.
In fact, fairly recently
I was going over
a particularly popular digest
on Usenet
known as Telecom Digest,
CompDcom Telecom,
and its own moderator,
Pat Townsend,
in reply to someone
who was asking
how to clone,
well, of course,
they didn't use the words clone,
they used the term
how can I make a copy
of my own cell phone
and just so I have
a backup phone
or just another unit
or whatever.
And Pat went on
to describe in detail
how to do such a thing.
And, of course,
he wasn't tracked down
and accused of operating
a phone scheme
or anything like that.
I don't think it's anything
particularly illegal
to make a copy
of a cell phone.
It shouldn't be.
I guess the phone companies,
the cellular phone companies
want to be able
to charge people
the maximum amount,
so if you make
a copy of your phone,
well, you have to pay them
as if you had
another phone line.
Right.
It's like the old days
when people used to be scared
if they had an extension
without telling
the phone company about it.
It's kind of weird
how that mental process works.
Anyway, continuing the story,
when police encountered
Cummings at the 7-Eleven
on Eagle Road,
he was preparing to sell
one of those speed dialers
and the crystals
that are used
to convert them,
police alleged.
The second man
who was not arrested
had traveled from Florida
to buy the device,
according to a police affidavit.
Two days later,
after speaking
with a Secret Service agent
about the legality
of the devices,
Haverford police
arrested Cummings.
First of all,
I don't know anybody
that would travel
all the way from Florida
just to buy a Redbox
or a cellular cloning device.
They're easy to make,
easy to buy anywhere,
so that doesn't
hold water somehow.
They said they found him
repairing a personal computer
in a home
on the 100 block
of North Concord Road
in Marple Township.
When they searched him,
police said they found
a modified speed dialer
in his wallet,
which led to the second
set of charges,
which was illegal
or possession of devices
for theft
of telecommunications.
I think that would be,
I don't know,
has anyone ever been charged
with possession of devices
for theft of telecommunications
just for having
a modified Radio Shack dialer?
Have you heard
of anything like that?
I don't know
of anyone personally.
I don't know
that that's illegal
to possess one.
Well, this is a case
that's treading new ground,
I can tell you that.
The Secret Service
is still working
with Haverford officers
on the investigation,
but Cummings
has not been charged
on the federal level,
according to
agent in charge
Ernie Cunn.
He is being held
in Delaware County Prison
on $100,000 bail.
That's the most incredible thing.
So he's currently in prison,
$100,000 bail.
So, well,
now this is the interesting part.
This is where you see
what the power of the press is,
how they can totally
screw somebody up
and make someone seem
like something they're not.
And I think those of us
that have listened to the radio
over the past couple of years
and have heard from Bernie S.
and have went to Hope
and talked to him
and things like that,
you realize
what a distortion this is.
While searching the room
where Cummings stayed
in a home on Panoron...
Well, it doesn't matter
what road it was
in Villanova
on Thursday,
police said they seized
several hundred speed dialers,
computer software,
cellular phones,
and thousands of computer chips
and crystals.
Ooh.
They also found books
describing computer crimes
and hacking
as well as literature
related to bomb making.
Makes you wonder,
doesn't it?
Cummings apparently
moved to Villanova
after a falling out
with a landlord in Broomall.
And then almost the whole
rest of the article
is devoted to the landlord
saying how crazy this guy was.
Now, keep in mind,
this was...
And I've been to his house
several times.
This is somebody that
he got into a fight with,
so of course the person
is going to say bad things
about him after he moves out.
So he's talking about
the various how-to books
that he found
that Bernie S. had left behind.
He says,
I got a whole pile of them
that he left here,
such as
how to kill somebody
slow with poison,
how to get around
the credit card system.
Two Christmases ago,
he was boasting
that he could tap into TWA
and get a free ticket.
I said,
what do you mean?
So he went up to his computer
and he was able
to access TWA.
Now, I will bet,
I will bet anything
that what he did
was access the schedule.
I mean, Bernie S.
was not someone
who even used computers
that much.
He didn't even have
internet access,
so I don't think
this is somebody
that would go to TWA
and somehow
card himself tickets.
It just doesn't make sense.
But they make the implication
that he did
because the next paragraph
says,
with that,
Cummings was off
to pick up his ticket
to Morocco
from Philadelphia
International Airport
and his landlord
did not see him
for the next two weeks.
I mean,
that's,
anybody reading
would think
that this person
was doing that
and of course,
that's not the kind
of thing he did.
Knowing him,
I know that is true.
His landlord,
though,
continues,
for a man
who didn't work,
he lived pretty good
and of course,
he did work.
He didn't have
a nine-to-five
type of a job
but he was
a computer consultant
and last I checked,
computer consultants
got paid,
right?
Sure.
They do get paid.
They don't do this
voluntarily.
Here's the most
condemning piece
of information though.
His landlord said
Cummings often
locked himself
in his room
for long periods.
Oh,
the guy's got to be
a lunatic.
I mean,
he locks himself
in his room
by himself.
I mean,
who knows what he's doing?
He could be thinking.
He could be reading,
writing.
He could be on the phone.
I mean,
who knows what this guy
is up to.
So that's the story
that appeared
in the Philadelphia Inquirer
yesterday,
pretty much
destroying any chance
that this guy
will be thought of
as a normal human being.
And
this whole thing
started looking at
the
at the search warrant.
The affidavit
of probable cause
for the search warrant
actually.
According to the police officer,
I observed a van
backed in next
to the 7-Eleven store
with three black males
and one black female
occupants.
And
I guess
that was enough
right there
for them to
launch an investigation.
Then they observed
that a white male
was talking
with the occupants
of the van
and that a transaction
of currency
was taking place.
And it just
goes on and on
after that.
Now,
there's one part
in here
which I think
is really interesting
where they're
talking about
what a red box
actually is
and how
there is
no
possible use
for
this kind
of device.
Yeah.
There's no use
for, say,
education
or anything like that
where you could say
to somebody,
hey,
this is what
a red box
sounds like.
Sort of.
It's rather sloppy
if you ask my name.
No legitimate use
for that whatsoever.
These guys
actually admit
that they
used it themselves.
I'm trying to find
the exact
section here.
They actually
went to a payphone.
Here we go.
Agent Varney
went to a payphone
and conducted
a long-distance
phone call.
The computer
intercepted
and a recording
asked the
policeman
to deposit
$2.60
for the call.
The policeman
placed the
modified speed
dialer to the
telephone receiver
and pressed
the button
11 times.
The computer
message then
stated that I
had 15 cents
credit towards
the call
and the call
was placed.
At no time
was any U.S.
currency placed
into the telephone
to complete this call.
These guys
just admitted
to a crime.
They just
did it
themselves.
Whereas
they have
no evidence
that Bernie S.
ever made
a fraudulent
phone call.
No evidence
whatsoever.
And I doubt
they will ever
find such
evidence.
What they have
evidence of
was that he
had electronic
parts in his
hand.
He had the
written
explanation as
to how it
all worked
and what it
was all about.
And they
don't understand
any of that.
They think
that the only
reason anybody
would have
any kind of
possession of
that kind
of material
would be
if they
were planning
something.
They were
planning to
commit fraud
or rip
people off.
Things like
that.
They have
no understanding.
Unfortunately,
their ignorance
must be paid
for by
people like
us.
And it's
just sad to
see this
happen yet
again.
Considering
how Bernie
S.
was so close
to the
case involving
fiber optic,
how he was
one of the
people that
took you to
prison.
Remember that
whole weekend
practically we
spent down
there?
I mean,
who would
ever think
only a year
or so later
that something
like this
would be
happening?
First Kevin
Mitnick,
now this.
It seems to
be a stepping
stone.
I mean,
we've had
about a
couple of
dozen people
that have
been raided,
arrested,
indicted,
what have you,
over the past
month or so
for quote
unquote cellular
related things.
Now,
I'm not sure,
I don't know
all these people,
but the people I
do know,
it seems to
be something
where they
just have
material,
they have
either equipment
or they have
documentation that
can be interpreted
as being bad
or potentially
for evil
purposes,
but mere
knowledge is
not a crime,
last I checked.
So,
we'll have to
see where that
goes.
And of course
we'll keep
people updated
on the
Bernie S
situation
as it
develops.
or falls
apart over
the weeks
ahead.
Okay,
that's pretty
much all
the news
updates we
have now.
If people
want to call
in,
I guess we
can take
phone calls,
right?
212-279-3400.
Is there
anything else
we have to
talk about
tonight?
ISDN.
ISDN,
oh right,
of course,
we're starting
the ISDN
project.
Why don't you
explain what
that's all
about?
Okay,
well what
we did was
that we both
decided that
we were going
to order
ISDN and
it's only
fairly recently
been made
available for
the area that
I live in.
So at
approximately the
same time we
both called
9X's ISDN
number,
it's an 890
number,
to order
ISDN and
we started
today and we
want to see
how we both
progress in
parallel.
So you
called and I
called.
I think you
made out a
little better
than I did.
I actually
called first,
but the
people there
didn't really
seem to know
what to do
so they just
took my name
and number
and said,
well have
somebody get
back to you
by Friday.
And then you
called and they
said they'd
get back to
you by 430.
And they
did.
Which they
did long
before 430
and they
proceeded to
set up a
service order
and they
told me when
someone would
be down to
install a line
which incidentally
it's a normal
phone line.
They told me
what the new
telephone number
would be
initially and
that a woman
would get back
to me before
Friday to take
down to
explain ISDN
to take down
which ISDN
services I
wanted to
configure my
line to do.
And you see
I haven't gotten
the call back
yet so I'm
still waiting.
Well first they
told you you
called the right
number and then
when you called
back they told
you that you
called the wrong
number.
Right.
Right.
What was it?
I'm going to try
that number right
now and see if
they have a
recording after
hours.
Maybe that makes
a difference.
These 890
numbers are really
fun.
I'll call the
one that's for
this area first.
Let's see what
they say after
hours.
Ah they just
leave the phone
off the hook
after hours.
That's very
clever 9X.
Very clever.
I don't think
at 1030 at night
they're taking
ISDN orders
seeing as how
they can barely
do it in the
daytime.
Let's try the
other number I
called.
That one rings.
You think
there'll be a
recording of
some sort?
The old generic
9X recording
where it takes
you 10 minutes
to figure out
they're closed.
That will
never come.
You're calling
to place an
order or check
on the status
of an order
press 1 for
billing or
account information
press 2 if
you're having
trouble with a
phone press 3.
I think I could
use some inflection
work there.
Sorry service
representatives
aren't available
now.
Okay thanks for
throwing us in.
Or call your
service center
at 8902550
between 8am and
8pm Monday
through Friday.
On Saturday
we are open
between 8am and
4pm.
Well the number
slipped in there.
They actually
repeat the number
that you dial.
So isn't that
something?
I'm going to
try this caller
ID thing one more
time on a
different line.
It's 8901900.
Thank you for
calling the 9X
call restrict test
line.
Because you are
calling from an
area where call
ID service is not
yet available,
your telephone
number did not
appear on our
call ID equipment.
There you go.
So we do not
apparently have the
capability to have
caller ID here.
So that should
pretty much dispel
any rumors that we
take everyone's
number when they
call in.
There it is.
People seem to
think that we do
this, but we
don't.
And even if we
could do it, we
wouldn't.
And even if we
wanted to do it,
we probably don't
have the staff to
properly manage it.
And we'd wind up
losing all the
records anyway, so
it's kind of
pointless.
It's not a joke,
it's true.
212-279-3400,
let's take some
phone calls.
Good evening,
you're on the
radio.
Hey, good evening
Emmanuel.
How are you?
Good.
You were talking
about Mr. S's
landlord telling
the papers that
he was very odd
because he would
lock himself in
his room for
long periods of
time.
And I was
ringing a bell
with, I
remember watching
some of those
Are Your Kids
on Drugs films
from the 60s?
Number one on
the checklist is
lack of interest
in sports.
Oh, yeah.
The same type of
feel to that,
that same type of
Well, we all know
how far removed
professional sports
is from abuse
of drugs, don't
we?
That's right,
that's right.
They act like
they caught them
with locksmith
tools or something,
like burglar
tools.
Uh-huh.
It's ridiculous.
Well, as far as
they're concerned,
they're one and
the same.
Printed material
or software,
anything like
that, chips,
crystals, it's
all burglary
tools to them.
I mean, he had
a book, How to
Murder Someone
Slowly with
Poison.
Maybe he was
writing a novel
about someone
getting murdered
and wanted to
have the exact
info.
Anything's possible.
It's really not up
to us to theorize
as to why
somebody takes
out a particular
book or has
a particular book.
The fact of the
matter is,
sometimes it's
just for the
sake of reading
something that's
a bit risque or
that people might
think is evil.
You can't condemn
somebody just because
they have something
like that.
You have to
condemn someone
based on their
actions.
Now, what actions
are we talking
about in this
particular case?
I see none.
Yeah, but it
looks like they've
already tried them
in the media.
That's right.
Absolutely.
It's just a damn
shame that somebody
that we know
whose capability is
pretty incredible to
start with.
How many times have
we seen this?
Keep up the good
work there.
All right.
Thanks for calling.
Take care.
Yeah, it's
something we keep
seeing over and
over again.
It just never
seems to end.
Good evening.
You're on Off
the Hook.
Hey, what's up?
This appeared in
Cyber Wire Dispatch
a couple of days
ago, I think it
was.
The Brock Meeks
publication?
Yes.
Okay, what was
that?
It's an interesting
number, 1-800-WOW-ITS-HOT.
Oh, not that again.
I think they
disconnected that.
I tried that about
10 minutes ago.
It worked fine.
Is it back?
Okay, it basically
plays you the sounds
of summer.
Yeah.
Okay, we had that
about a year ago.
We played with that.
Oh, yeah?
Yeah.
We can call it again
and see if the
sounds of summer
have changed.
What, they have
like a ball game?
They have a babbling
creek somewhere?
Yeah, a guy
playing golf.
Guy playing golf,
right.
Yeah, they got a
lot of shit.
Do they still have
the belching noise
at the end?
Yeah, when you
play golf, do you
still get the belching
noise at the very end?
I don't know.
I didn't stick around
very long.
Okay, we'll check
that out.
All right, thanks a lot.
All right, take care.
All right, let's check
into that right now.
1-800.
Wow.
It's hot.
A couple extra
digits there.
Welcome to the MCI
Wow It's Hot Hotline,
the newest fun way
to stay warm
during the cold
days of winter.
Well, it's not new.
MCI Wow It's Hot Hotline
lets you hear any
of nine fun
warming sounds
to help you
warm up
absolutely free.
All you need
is a touchtone phone
and you can hear
as many sounds
as you'd like
as many times
as you want.
MCI is great.
That's by pressing
the number of the sound
you want to hear.
What a terrific service.
Thanks for calling
the MCI
Wow It's Hot Hotline.
To hear people
playing golf,
press 1.
To hear a baseball
game,
press 2.
To hear seagulls,
press 3.
To hear someone
water skiing,
press 4.
To hear tropical birds,
press 5.
An evening tropical
stream is on 6.
To hear a carousel,
press 7.
Children at the beach,
press 8.
And to hear a baseball
stadium vendor,
press 9.
Okay,
we'll go for the
golf game?
Sure.
Oh.
Very fast response.
All right,
listen for the
belching noise
at the end.
Well,
that hasn't changed.
that's it.
Off,
press 1.
To hear a baseball
game.
You want to hear
a baseball game?
A whole baseball
game?
It's going to be
about two hours
listening to this
one.
And the best
thing about it
is you can skip
ahead.
You sick of that?
Let's go straight
to the stadium
vendor.
Hot dogs,
hamburgers.
Hot dogs,
hamburgers.
Tropical birds.
You can stay on
all night,
just going from
one sound to
another.
Seagulls.
Somebody water
skiing.
Why is MCI
offering this?
Does anybody know?
No idea.
What's going on
here?
It's crazy.
I mean,
I asked this last
year and it didn't
make any sense then.
It makes less sense
now.
They're just offering
this wow,
it's hot business
and nobody knows
why.
Maybe you get
phone calls from
some travel agency
saying,
well,
this person must
like summer so
we're going to try
and send them to
a tropical place
someplace.
But whatever,
it's got nothing
to do with long
distance telephones,
does it?
I don't know.
If you call MCI
and you ask them
about this,
they know nothing
about it.
I guess it's their
own little ISDN
type of thing
because 9X knows
nothing about that
and MCI knows
nothing about this.
Let's take another
phone call.
Good evening.
You're on the radio.
You hear Seagulls.
Press 3.
Someone water skiing?
Oh, I'm sorry.
That was still on.
Okay.
Sorry about that.
Oh, I see.
They didn't hang up
apparently.
Very good.
Look, I just want
to tell you something
that I discovered
in New Jersey.
In Bergen County,
if you dial 2-1-1,
there's some sort
of a service
that's being implemented.
Yes, I heard
about that.
Bell Atlantic has
some sort of
a newspaper thing
now.
Is that right?
Yes, you can hook
up with,
apparently there's
four or five things
on the menu.
I don't think
they all work yet.
But one that does
work is the record
newspaper,
which has a number
of things like
a stock quote
hotline and one
of these polls
where they publish
something in the paper.
What do you think
of pooper scooper
laws, whatever.
And then everybody
dials in and presses
one for yes
and two for no.
They publish the results,
highly scientific polls.
Now, does 2-1-1
cost anything?
It doesn't seem to.
I tried it a couple
of months ago
and nothing showed up
on the bill.
How about that?
But there's no way
to access that from
New York, is there?
Not that I know of,
although it's a number
that when you push
like two for the record
newspaper, it's the same
service that they
already offer through
a regular pot line
that you can just call
in for your local call.
I see.
Well, if anyone from
New Jersey is listening
and they have access
to a second dial tone,
maybe we can play with
this on the radio.
Yeah, if I was out
in the car,
I was going to tape it
for you and maybe
play it into the phone,
but I didn't get home
in time, so maybe
next week.
Maybe next week,
or maybe this week
somebody will have
access to that.
Very good.
Thanks for letting us know.
Take care.
I heard about,
along the same line
since we're on the
topic of Bell Atlantic,
I heard about a just
recently offered
Bell Atlantic service,
brand new,
that it's like call
answering, only it's
not call answering,
whereby...
I'm confused.
If it's like call
answering, what else
could it be?
Oh, well, the thing
is that it's voicemail,
but it's true voicemail.
True voicemail?
Yeah.
It's not something
that only works
if you don't answer
the phone.
It's an actual
full city-wide
voicemail system.
I believe they're
calling it T-mail.
T-mail?
And what it does
is that it allows
you to send
voicemail messages
to anyone, anywhere,
without ringing
their phone or
anything like that.
At any time?
At any time.
Wow.
And the way that
the person is alerted
that they have...
It's like regular
voicemail that other
people have been
using for centuries.
Yeah.
Okay.
The way that you
tell that you have
a voicemail message
is you just pick up
your telephone and
like call answering,
you get a stutter
dial tone.
Right, stutter dial tone.
Right.
So now, what's the
difference?
Is that it...
Like...
Well, the thing...
The reason for call
answering is that
you can get messages
if you don't answer
the phone.
Mm-hmm.
T-mail works where
you could send
someone a message
whenever you want to
without ringing
their phone.
Well, you can do
that with regular
call answering as well.
If you call the
regular number and
enter their phone
number, it doesn't
ring their phone
and you can leave
them a message.
That's true.
Yeah.
So what's the purpose
of this thing?
I don't know.
I don't know either.
You know, I was
reading about it...
It's marketing.
I guess they're
trying to find a new
way to charge more
or something like that.
I think maybe,
possibly, I think
everyone is supposed
to have it.
Oh, you mean you
get it no matter what?
Yeah, I think you
get it no matter what
and they charge you
something like a quarter
every time you send
someone a message.
Oh, that's just great.
Now they're going to
charge every time you
send a message to
somebody?
Leave it to the
phone companies to
figure out how to do
that.
Pretty soon they'll
be offering internet
access and charging us
for every message we
send there.
It's free to read
them though.
Oh, how nice of them.
How sporting.
Do you think there's
any way for us to
call that 2-1-1
service directly if we
do 1-0-NJB in front
of the number?
I don't think it's
going to go through,
no.
No?
What if we do 1-0-NJB
area code 2-1-1-XXXX
to fill out the last
four digits?
You're free to try.
I don't think you're
going to get very far.
You don't think it's
going to work?
No.
Okay.
Well, first I have to
get a line here.
And we'll try
dialing out.
10-NJB.
Actually, you're
doing it backwards.
We do 6-9-8 to
call New Jersey.
Well, we'll try that
afterwards.
Okay.
NJB is New Jersey
Bell.
No, NJB is for
them to call us.
We can't call them
using...
No, we don't have
NJB.
Uh-oh.
We're sorry.
Your call cannot be
completed as dialed.
Please check the
number and dial again.
Guess you're right.
It's kind of backwards.
So I'll try 1-0-N-Y-T.
Yeah, we use 10-N-Y-T
to call New Jersey.
It's funny how
N-Y-T and NJB
don't exist anymore
anyway.
Yeah.
See if that works.
I think I confused it.
Hello?
I don't know.
I don't know.
Hello?
We're sorry.
Your call cannot be
completed as dialed.
Please check the number
and dial again.
Same exact recording.
Call your operator
to help you.
1-3-2-A-2.
Now you're next
recording.
Yeah.
Okay, I guess it's just
not possible for us to
do that at this time.
Good evening.
You're on the radio.
Hello?
Go ahead.
Yeah, okay.
I've been waiting
for a couple weeks
to ask this question.
When I was playing
around dialing
some of the
1-1 numbers
like 9-1-1
and those...
Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa.
You mean you were
scanning 9-1-1?
No, not 9-1-1, but...
Leave that one out.
Yeah, okay.
But you were scanning
basically 2-1-1,
3-1-1.
Yeah, all except for 0-1.
Must have taken you
a long time.
Yeah.
Yeah, real long.
And I came across 3-11
and...
You heard teletype noise.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's New York State Police
for...
It's a service for deaf people.
Oh, that's what it is.
That's what it is, yeah.
Okay, I was just
kind of wondering
and I figured
you guys would probably know.
Yeah, we scanned
that one out a while ago
and that's when you get
back on a TT...
You know who told us
about that?
Bernie S. was the person
that was experimenting
on the radio with us.
Oh, that's cool, man.
And we were...
I suppose that'll be
brought up in charge
as he was pranking
the police or something.
But basically,
we heard a teletype noise
and we wanted to find out
what it was
so we hooked a TDD device
up to it
and read what it said
and it said
New York State Police.
Oh, okay.
And you know,
we never bothered them
again after that.
Yeah, I was thinking
of doing something like that
with a RTTY,
you know,
like ham radio teletype.
Uh-huh.
But I didn't have one available.
All right, thanks guys.
Okay, thanks for calling.
We're going to
actually try that now
and see if it's still connected.
I don't know if it was
really working from here
all that reliably.
Yep, there it is.
There it is.
Of course, we've now
called the police
live on the radio.
Never mind.
Thank you.
But that's, uh...
I don't quite know
how that's supposed to work.
I mean, what are the odds
of a deaf person
who's going to need
the state police
all of a sudden?
I mean, I've never needed
the state police,
not once, ever.
How do you know
if you need the state police
or the local police?
Does it make a difference?
I don't think...
I don't know.
I mean, the state police
sometimes have needed
to talk to me
about various things
such as, you know,
the speed at which
I was traveling
and things like that,
but I don't know.
Good evening.
You're on the radio.
Hi, my name is Kathy.
I'm interested
in the iPhone thing.
I'm a totally blind
computer user.
Is that technology
ever going to be
accessible to people
that use speech?
And will you be able
to bypass the icons?
I think it will be.
I think it will be
fairly soon,
depending on how many people
take an active interest in it.
And I think it's
a very good question.
It's something that we
need to see.
iPhone is something
we demonstrated last week.
Hopefully we'll be
demonstrating it again
fairly soon.
I wanted to ask your guest
last week about it
and I didn't get a chance
because I'm interested
in learning how to use
the Internet
and I wanted to get back
in touch with him
if that was possible.
Well, you can contact
I think you're talking
about Roman.
You can contact him
at Escape.
I'll give you
their phone number
and maybe he can
ask some questions
about that
because I know
they're experimenting
with that service too.
Okay.
And that's
212-888-8780.
Okay.
So you can try
reaching him there.
But iPhone is the program
that allows you
to talk to people,
actually talk,
hear their voices
over your computer
without using a telephone
except, of course,
as you would be
connected to the net,
you need to make
some sort of
a telephone connection
there.
But once you do that,
you're able to talk
to as many people
as you want
from around the world
and they all come
through your computer
speaker and you speak
into a microphone.
It's kind of
in its infancy
right now.
There are some delays.
It's a little hard
to understand some people.
So it's a bit confusing.
But it's a start.
It's the first time
ever that we've had
the ability
to completely bypass
the phone company
when we speak
to somebody.
and it's a great promise
for the future.
Hopefully,
it will remain cheap.
It will remain easy
for people to use
and we'll become
more geared
towards those people
that don't have access
in other ways.
Okay.
Thank you very much.
Okay.
Take care.
Bye-bye.
And hopefully,
we'll hear more about that
in the future.
Good evening.
You're on the radio.
Hello, Emmanuel.
I would like to know
the 1-800 number
to use in order
to get the results
as you would
a 978
in New York.
You mean 958?
Hello?
Yeah.
I'm not sure
what you mean exactly.
What is the telephone number
that you're using
if you're not
in New York State?
There's a 1-800 number
that you mentioned once.
I didn't get
the whole number.
It's a number
to do what?
To find out
the telephone number.
Okay.
Yeah.
You're referring...
Okay.
You said 978.
You mean 958
which is the ANAC recording.
Yes.
Okay.
You can call...
There's 1-800 number
that I know.
There's probably several
but the one
I'm most familiar with
and the hacker world
is most familiar with
is 1-800-MY-AN-I-IS
and basically
you just spell out
those letters
on your phone.
A-N-I is spelled
A-N-I
obviously.
I actually said that
without thinking.
A-N-I stands
for Automatic Number
Identification
so if you dial that number
that should give you back
the phone number
you're calling from.
Thank you.
All right.
Take care.
Bye.
Of course it keeps
repeating too.
Yeah.
Mercilessly
without stopping.
Good evening.
You're on.
Hi.
Good evening.
You tried that 890-1900
number a couple
of minutes ago?
Yes.
Well I can tell you
that the announcement
they gave you
is apparently wrong
because BAI's number
comes in on my
caller ID box.
I live on the east
side of town
and I tried it
as you were trying
and mine
I got the same
announcement
saying my number
was not being
transmitted
so it's wrong
whatever it is.
Wait.
You're saying
BAI's number
does BAI call you?
Well people have
called me from the station
and it comes into my box
down to all the
different extensions
etc.
well most of the extensions
I don't know them all
and I see them all the time
341 blah blah blah blah blah
all the time
and I got the same
announcement
as you were calling
I was trying it
at the same time
so they're wrong
and they were saying
caller ID is not
in your area
so your number
is not being
transmitted.
I would assume
that if caller ID
is in your area
you could have
the capability
of both getting it
from other areas
that have it
or it's being
transmitted
unless you tell
them otherwise.
You know you're right
actually
now that I think
about it
when I had caller ID
which was about
a year ago
I was getting calls
from people at BAI
and their number
would show up
it was not in this
bank
it was in the
office bank
So they're wrong
maybe we can
look into this
Yeah I will
you know what else
I'm going to do
I'm doing this
right now
as I'm talking to you
I'm using the
office extensions
of the telephone
which might be
different than
the studio extensions
That is possible
but I know some
if not all
of them do show up
Okay right now
I'm listening
I'm going to see
if there's a certain
recording here
Okay she's speaking
to me as I'm
speaking to you
Now she's saying
the same thing
because caller ID
service is not
yet available
She's wrong
You're absolutely
right
I hope they don't
bring 2-1-1
into Manhattan
that will eliminate
us being able
to call for a
refund
I don't know
what they do
over in
Bell Atlantic land
How do they
get credit?
That demonstration
last week
was most impressive
and I just wanted
to know a quick
question
Do you need
a Pentium processor
or could it be
something less
tech than that
to do that?
No it works
on any PC
What you do
need is slip
access
You need more
of a dedicated
type access
to the net
You can't just
call in with a
shell account
but that's probably
the most popular
way of getting
access these days
And if you want
to have a true
duplex conversation
I guess if you
had two whole
units dedicated
in tandem
at each end
that could be
done?
No well they do
have some full
duplex programs
they're just
the quality of
them isn't all
very good
Okay thank you
Thanks for calling
Bye bye
Maybe you can
explain a little
better than me
as far as what
slip is as
compared to
regular access
Well slip or
PPP access
basically your
computer under
certain circumstances
can be issued an
internet address
so that on a
dial up basis
for the duration
of your connection
you can subscribe
to an internet
service provider
and while you're
connected it's as
if you're a part
of the internet
Your machine
your home computer
actually has an
internet address
so to anyone
else on the net
it seems as if
you're an actual
physical node
connected to the net
when in fact you
aren't
so what it's
providing you with
is the actual
real time
connectivity
What do you mean
when in fact you
aren't?
Aren't you?
Well
At that particular
point in time?
Well I mean
the point that I'm
making is that
you're not hardwired
into the net
I mean you don't
have a least
line connection
to the net
for that particular
moment in time
you
All you have to do
is hang up the
phone and you're
not on the net
anymore
so it's kind of
like internet
connectivity on demand
Yeah but if you
clip the wires
in a regular
site
you're not
on the net
anymore either
It's a question
of how you
disconnect
Yeah but the
idea is
You blow it up
or something
You're using a
normal telephone
call to get you
a direct connection
to the net
as opposed to
actually having
a lease line
whereas you're
an actual
dedicated connection
One step up
Yeah
Well a few
steps up
It's of course
a lot slower
than a dedicated
connection would be
But it is increasing
in popularity
and all services
offer that
Yeah
I mean it's really
great for things
like worldwide
web access
and things of that
nature
It's essential
Yeah
You can't have
worldwide web access
if you don't do it
that way
Well actually
there's
I mean
one thing
that they did
to get around
that is
using something
called Slipknot
Slipknot?
Yeah
Slipknot is
Is that with a K
or without a K?
No Slipknot
as in it's not slip
Oh okay
It's a play on words
It's a program
that you could run
that if you subscribe
to an internet
service provider
and you don't want
to pay for Slipk
or PPP
and they have
a text based
browser
for the worldwide
web known as
Lynx
L-Y-N-X
It's a joy to use
Yeah
If you
You click on the
outline words
and you can find out
that you can't
see the picture
Well with Slipknot
what it does
is that
you set up Slipknot
on your machine
and what it does
is that
you log into
your service
your internet service
that provided
that you have
shell access
and you have it
run Lynx
and what it does
is that it transfers
the pictures
over to your machine
and displays them
on your screen
Right
So in essence
It's almost like
you're really there
It's almost as if
you're really there
It's ingenious
Only you don't need
the Slipknot
connectivity
Right
You're actually using
it's like Lynx
with pictures
and it actually
presents it for you
as if you're
using a browser
How long a period
of time do you
have to wait though?
It's the same
It's the same
amount of time
and you have to wait
for the pictures
to be transferred
to you anyway
Of course
speed wise
it's not quite as fast
as being directly
connected
with say PPP
But I mean
it's negligible
for someone who
for whatever
cockamamie reason
doesn't want
Slipknot
PPP
Interesting
Okay
That's a fairly
good explanation
Let's go back
to the phones
Good evening
Okay
You're not
around anymore
Let's try you
Good evening
You're on
I've tried
It's good to know
that my ANI is
and the number
that you guys
were using before
with my cellular
phone
and neither
one of them
gives you anything
My ANI is
gives you some
strange number
depending on
where you are
You get a different
number depending
on which cell
Right
That's the actual
outgoing number
that's used
by the cellular
company
Right
So does that
mean that if
one wants to
be anonymous
a cellular phone
isn't all that
bad
Well I think
you should ask
OJ and Kevin
Mitnick that
question
They were being
tracked a different
way no
Yeah I mean
they were being
tracked in a
different way
true but it's
not impossible
if you think
that cellular
phones are a
safe way of
making calls
First of all
anybody can
listen to you
in the first
place
I'm talking
about if one
wants to be
anonymous and
short and
quick there's
apparently no way
they can pick up
the number that
you're calling from
and just do a
quick hang up
Well there are
billing records too
They can always go
back and check out
the paperwork
If you want to be
anonymous short
quick use pay
phones
That's the method
of choice for
terrorists and for
criminals of all
sorts but it's
also the method
of choice for
people interested
in privacy
right
Sure
You don't have to
be a criminal
to want to make
use of this
Just don't use
the pay phone
at the corner
of your house
Yeah right
You know
you use the same
pay phone all the
time they kind
of put it together
In fact it used
to be back in
my college days
they would figure
it out
Who called
Pakistan
Well maybe it's
the same person
that called the
identical number
from their room
a month before
It's using the
pay phone to call
that number
down the hall
It didn't take
It didn't take much
to figure it out
They do have brains
So if you're looking
to cover your trail
you should believe that
Good evening
You're on the radio
Hi this is Dave
from New Jersey
I'm calling and
wondering if you
read an article
about this gentleman
by the name of
Dan Farmer
He was dismissed
from Silicon Graphics
He helped develop
security software
for free distribution
on the internet
Yes in fact
this sound right here
is the sound of
that article in my
hands
The New York Times
something like that
The New York Times
In fact it's a
John Markoff article
appears today
Oh right
that's right
Now he's releasing
this program called
Satan on April 5th
Right
Now Fiber
explain to us
what Satan is
that's the program
Well Satan is
a software tool
that was developed
by Dan Farmer
and a colleague of his
from the Netherlands
that basically
does a very very
thorough probe
of a particular site
that would go through
and inform the person
namely the system
administrator
what all the
security holes are
that the program
is capable of
finding
and from what
I'm told
it can be
quite thorough
Now what the
what Silicon Graphics
apparently was worried
about is the
political or legal
repercussions
or ramifications
of such a tool
being released
to the world
for anyone to use
And he was fired
from Silicon Graphics
I guess
fairly recently
But he'll have a job
on Monday
April 6th though
April 6th yes
he supposedly has
all kinds of job offers
that can begin on April 6th
the day after it's released
Alrighty well
thanks for the information
Okay thank you
So we're all looking
forward to the release
of Satan
Good evening
here on the radio
Can you tell me
how much
a slip
PPP connection
would be?
What's a standard price?
I think around
20 bucks a month
Yeah typical going rate
is 25 bucks
on time
That's it?
Yeah
How many hours
does that entail?
That's untimed
On time?
Yeah
Is that a local
dial up?
Yeah sure
Now you see
there's a difference
and most of the services
offer this
personal and corporate
slip are different
and that personal slip
you're only supposed
to use it
you know
when you're using it
you don't leave it on
24 hours a day
corporate slip
you can do whatever you want
and you can have as many
people as you want
use it
so the difference
in price
for something like that
ranges from about
20 bucks for personal
and around 150
for corporate
so that's
those are standard prices
So it's really no difference
either way?
As far as the actual
connection though
but the thing is
you can do more
with a corporate slip
in that you can
leave it on
24 hours a day
you can have multiple people
coming in and out
using it
Well a lot of services
don't particularly care
how long you're connected
provided they have
a lot of phone lines
if you subscribed
and got a corporate slip
or PPP account
one of the
one of the most important things
is that they would
give you your own dial
up typically
and that you'd have
your own dedicated
phone line
that was yours to use
If you're a slip
or PPP user
and you just have
a personal account
then you're subject
to the line being busy
at the service provider
and so on
Now without the slip
PPP account
you can't use
the graphical interfaces
such as Mosaic?
No, not at all
You can't use Mosaic
or Netscape
without a slip
or PPP account
Okay, alright
thanks guys
Thanks for calling
Bye bye
Good evening
you're on Off the Hook
Good evening
a petty little
clarification
when you spoke
of call ID
having been available
for about a year
you just meant
that West 36th Street
that you're wired
out of
had been
over about a year ago
that's what I meant
because of course
the first in New York State
was November
November 92
Let me ask you this
can you suggest
a local company
that provides
untimed
unlimited
monthly slip connection
for only
$20 or $25
like Panix
is $35
I don't know
the exact rates
but obviously
you know about Panix
there's Escape
there's
Escape
if you want to
go with the big guys
there's Netcom
Well, but we know
their problems
Yes, we certainly do
Now, Escape
where are they located?
They're in Manhattan
as well
I gave their phone number
earlier but I'll give it again
Oh, thank you
That's 212-888-8780
And speaking of 888
actually
you're the guy
I respect to know this
I heard recently
that they're assigning
a new area code
because they're running
out of 800 numbers
and it's going to
basically be the same
thing as 800
in other words
all calls are free
within the area code
the new area code
supposedly is 888
7 on down through 880
is what it said
I'm sorry
did you hear what I said?
I'm sorry
Yeah, 888
will be the next
toll free area
That's right
Now, is that what you heard?
Well, yes
and then what I read
said that once they
use up all of 888
and both 800
and 888
are all filled up
they'll start working
down 887
886
and so forth
down through 880
Wow
So they got this
all planned out
don't they?
Yes
Would you have heard
there was an article
in some magazine
something like
Home Office Computing
I forget exactly
which one it was
there were two women
who wrote an article
and it said that
one of the
I think big three
long distance companies
said that they are
going to make it
and maybe this is
in connection
or sort of under
the pressure
of nationwide
caller ID
that will be available
starting April 12th
it said that on
their regular 800
service
you would start
being able to
see the callers
area code
and number
without having
ANI
which is a thing
for big corporate
users
right
and without
what's the other
way it could
appear
without having
ANI
just regular
800 service
you could see
the callers
area code
without having
to wait
for the bill
to come
and see it
shown on the
bill
are you talking
about the same
way that cable
and wireless
and will tell
have been doing
it on the
caller ID box
well wait a minute
with cable
and wireless
and by the way
I'm like another
caller a few
weeks ago
who misunderstood
what you
originally said
on that a few
months before
I thought
what you had
been saying
was that if
you made
cable and wireless
or will tell
as your dial
one carrier
that you
would be able
to see cell
phone and
other numbers
incoming
but what you
meant was
that you
got your
number
exposed
unknowingly
right
when you
called out
if will tell
or cable and
wireless was
your carrier
that's right
yes
that's how
it works
very alarming
right
by the way
I
when I
call that
8901900
number
it works
for me
and I
have call
ID on
both my
lines
so I
can cross
verify it
that way
I
when I
signed up
originally
I had
call ID
on only
one line
I too
knew no
one who
had the
service
so I
was reduced
to calling
Domino's
pizza shops
and politely
getting
when they
weren't too
busy
and I
would get
the person
I was
very careful
on the
first call
I said
I made
it so
that I
thought it
was not
revealed
and I
said
does it
show what
number I'm
calling from
and they
would say
no
because
that way
they couldn't
do it
you see what
I'm saying
right
couldn't get
it
if they
were
let's
in the
unlikely
event
the person
who was
being
cooperative
wanted to
give me
a deceptive
answer
just to
say to
be
mischievous
well
if I'm
asking
them
can you
see me
and they
could not
then they
couldn't
there was
no way
they would
just be
able to
guess my
number
then I
said may
I call
you back
one more
time
do it
the other
way
sure enough
9x
had
as now
it turns out
they had
done with
tens of
thousands
of people
they had
gotten it
backwards
I had
asked to
have
all call
blocking
and they
were only
giving me
per call
blocking
right
so your
number is
being
transmitted
that's
something
that a lot
of people
found out
but happily
by being
that diligent
and then
calling back
to them
and assume
unlike this
guy in
Albany
who called
you a
couple of
weeks ago
I assumed
they had
just made
that
or I
didn't
I did
not
let's put
it this
way
I did
not
assume
that they
had made
the same
error
with
thousands
or tens
of thousands
of customers
who had
signed up
I just
said well
they've
gotten it
backwards
with me
so I
called back
in
got them
to change
it
they said
okay
or maybe
they made
me call
a repair
service
I forget
which
and after
they assured
me it
had been
corrected
I then
called
another
Domino's
pizza
okay
I'm afraid
we're going
to have
to continue
this saga
in weeks
ahead
because we're
out of time
but thanks
very much
for starting
it
Fiver
thanks for
being here
and we'll
see you next
week
we'll be back
next week
with another
edition of
Off the Hook
and until
then keep
track of your
various phone
odysseys and
communication
problems and
privacy adventures
and we'll try
and relay them as
best we can
in the weeks
and months
ahead
it's Emmanuel
Goldstein
have a good
night
do
you
do
do
For the eventual making of literature,
that early life was probably healthy.
Lots of women in the kitchen talking,
two strong languages,
English and Russian in my year at home,
and the language of my grandmother
and the grown-ups in the street, Yiddish,
to remind me of the person I really was,
the middle-class child of working people,
the comfortable daughter of hounded wanderers,
resting for a generation between languages.
Tuesday, March 28th at 1 p.m.,
join me, Abby Smith,
for an hour with author, feminist,
and peace activist, Grace Paley.
There'll be an interview,
selections from her writings,
and listener phone calls.
Find out why it is said,
Where There's Grace, There's Hope.
That's Tuesday, March 28th at 1 p.m.,
right after Natural Living with Gary Null,
here on WBAI.
Good evening.
In the news tonight,
anti-abortion forces flexed their muscles
in the debate over welfare reform.
Surprise, surprise,
the deadly gas released in Tokyo's subway
can be easily found in chemical stockpiles
in the United States.
And here in our region,
the city of New York is sued for $13 million
over the death while in police custody
of 29-year-old Anthony Baez.
With these and other stories,
I'm Jose Santiago in New York
with Verna Avery Brown in Washington,
and this is the news for Wednesday,
March 22, 1995.
First to Washington for the Pacifica National News.
U.S. Defense Secretary William Perry
is warning that Iran has moved chemical weapons,
6,000 troops,
and anti-ship missiles
to islands at the mouth of the Persian Gulf.
Perry says that buildup
is very threatening to shipping there.
U.S. officials say
they are watching the Iranian situation very closely.
Japanese police early this morning
raided the buildings
of a right-wing religious sect
and reportedly removed about 60 drums
filled with chemicals,
similar to those used
in yesterday's deadly poison gas attack.
However, police are being very careful
in their statements,
saying the raid took place
because of the abduction
of a government official earlier this month.
The Mexican government
has sent the Zapatistas
a framework for peace negotiations.
The Interior Ministry says
it's pulled the army out of villages
and dismantled roadblocks
to reduce tensions.
Mexican officials are calling
for the Chiapas rebels
to agree to face-to-face negotiations.
Anti-abortion Republicans
switched sides briefly today.
In an effort to block
the welfare reform bill,
they worried that provisions,
such as cutting off
cash welfare payments
to unwed teenage mothers,
would lead to more abortions.
Still, the House voted to go forward
with the welfare reform measure.
On this vote,
the yeas are 217,
the nays are 211.
The resolution passes.
The Republican plan
would replace 45 social programs
and fold their funding
into state block grants.
Further,
people who meet
the standards for benefits
would no longer be guaranteed
to receive them.
Republican John Christian
of Nebraska
criticized Democrats
who are attacking
the GOP package.
They're defending government programs
once intended to give
a helping hand
to the neediest Americans,
but instead
has read a soaring
out of wedlock burst,
violent crime,
and more poverty.
But the Progressive Congressional Caucus
today charged
that the Republicans
should go after corporate welfare,
which is estimated
at $265 billion.
Democratic Representative
Cynthia McKinney of Georgia.
I don't know how they can
look at themselves
in the mirror.