at 11 o'clock and at 12 midnight
Earthwatch with Robert Knight
we'll have more details on this tragedy
up next immediately
we'll be off the hook
stay with us
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that's Lois Henry at BAI
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help us
ain't it amazing
on the people I meet
and the time is 10 o'clock
which means it's time for off the hook
the telephone keeps ringing
so I ripped it off the wall
I cut myself while shaving
now I can't make a call
it couldn't get much worse
but if they could they would
from diddly bump
but the best
expect the worst
I hope that's understood
from diddly bump
so on the people I've heard
does this
do
what I see
which is true
and I have to
my friends
it's great
I'd like to
encourage the ahead of us
just to get back into the
ifier
Thank you.
Thank you.
If you've been with us for the last few weeks, well, then you'll know that we're engaged
in a battle.
We're engaged in a war, if you will.
We're engaged in a struggle.
We're engaged in...
The quest for ISDN.
We're engaged in a war, if you've been with us for the last few weeks, we're engaged in a war, and we're engaged in a war, and we're engaged in a war, and we're engaged in a war.
We're engaged in a war, and we're engaged in a war.
Well, this is day number 29 in the quest for ISDN.
And ISDN is something that one day maybe everybody outside the 9X area will have, but when they get it, they'll realize that phone service can be a lot more interesting than just picking up, getting a dial tone, things like that.
You'll be able to use voice data at the same time.
You'll be able to have more than one phone number for your phone lines.
You'll be able to send high-speed computer transmissions.
Yeah, no kidding.
And it's been available for a while.
It's been here for quite some time.
And 29 days ago, Fiber Optic and myself went out on a quest to have ISDN delivered to our homes, as is our right.
And, well, Fiber's not with us tonight, but I can tell you this.
He is without ISDN tonight.
And I can tell you that I am also without ISDN tonight.
But after last week's show, in fact, right after last week's show, I got this phone call that kind of convinced me that they were listening.
Very poetic, but today came, Wednesday morning was when it was supposed to be.
And guess what?
They didn't show up.
They did not show up at all.
So 1 o'clock in the afternoon, I called up.
Actually, I called 611 this time.
And I said, I'm supposed to have a phone man come to my house.
They asked what my phone number was.
I told them.
They said they had no record of anybody supposedly coming to my house.
Now, keep in mind, this is the second time that I've been through this.
Then when I said it's for ISDN, they said, oh, well, in that case, you're going to have to call the special 800 number.
So I called the special 800 number.
And this person picked up.
And I told her basically the same thing.
And she said, well, I don't know why you're calling me.
This is not really my concern.
I deal with businesses.
I don't deal with people.
And I apologized for being a person.
And she basically told me to call this other number someplace else where I got a very tired sounding person.
And I apologized for bothering her before I even asked her anything.
And I basically told her the same story.
And she said, well, you're going to have to speak to the one person who's in charge of this.
And, of course, that one person is somebody that I have never spoken to and I cannot reach.
When I say I, I'm speaking, I'm giving a quote for this person.
This person has never spoken.
She's just heard a myth of this person's existence.
And she says, this is the person.
It's like the Wizard of Oz.
You have to, like, travel across this vast wasteland of technology to get there.
And then once you get there, maybe you'll actually run into somebody that can help you.
So she said that she would try to help me anyway.
And she took down all the information.
She went away.
And she came back about 10 minutes later and took down some more information and then went away.
And then about 20 minutes later, I heard the good old 9X click.
And that usually happens whenever you call 9X to complain about anything.
You get the 9X click usually after 20 minutes on hold.
And then you get your dial tone back again.
Wonderful.
So I called the mythical, magical person.
And, of course, that person was on the phone or away from their desk at this time.
And I had to leave a message.
Well, later on, the person called back.
Yes, they actually did call back later on.
And they said that there was a miscommunication.
Now, this is a phone company.
You know, they cannot communicate.
They are a phone company.
They should have communications down.
But, no, they can't do that.
So they said there was a miscommunication.
And the workers that were supposed to come out hadn't received all the information that they needed to go to.
My place to install the line.
So rather than tell me any of this, they just decided not to show up at all.
And so the person said that they would try to reschedule it.
The earliest they could reschedule it would be next Tuesday.
And I said, you know, I'd really like it if you tried a little harder than that.
And he called back later on and said that they'd actually be able to show up on Friday.
Friday morning.
So that's where it stands now on day 29.
Maybe by day 31, somebody will actually show up.
He actually gave me two phone numbers today.
Two phone numbers for ISDN service.
So that's further along than I've ever been.
Really, it's pretty far.
It's pretty far.
I've got phone numbers now.
I've got an appointment.
I had appointments twice before.
But now I've got two phone numbers and my third appointment.
So I think I'm ahead of FiberOptic.
We'll find out next week for sure.
We've got a guest here with us who has gone even further than the two of us.
He has actually spoken to higher-ups and has found out some rather shocking things.
So let me introduce Dave here and tell us what you've been through.
Well, my prospects aren't as bright as yours.
I found out today that above the product manager, I went and called the corporate offices in Westchester
only to find out that there is no executive in charge of ISDN at 9X.
Between the product manager and various levels of support, there's a director of operations.
So I put a phone call into him in Westchester only to find 20 minutes later after numerous
being put on hold and clicks and 9X disconnections that he was in the New York office and no one
seemed to tell me this.
So I called the New York office, spoke to his direct assistant, and I was told that I would
get a response back in 20 minutes.
It's now, what, 10 after 10.
I didn't get a call back until that's...
9X minutes.
It was 6 o'clock at night, and I figured, okay, that's it.
And so now I put a phone call in, and tomorrow morning I hope to be speaking to the president
of 9X.
The president of 9X.
And what is that person's name, do you know?
I think it's Mr. Seidenberg.
The new guy, Ivan Seidenberg, the new guy who was a cable splicer in 66 and rose up to
become president of 9X.
I'm thinking maybe he'll remember what it was like when he was starting out.
Because he may very well be splicing cables again if he doesn't respond to some of this.
Okay, well, good luck with your quest.
Apparently lots of people are engaged in this quest throughout the city.
Of course, our quest is probably the most publicized right now.
Doesn't make it any higher on the priority list, though.
So the search for ISDN continues.
Other states, of course, this happens much faster.
You order ISDN service, you get it.
Once we get it, we'll be able to play with it, and then we'll be able to tell you if it's
worth getting.
But that's something for the future, one of these days.
One of these days, Mr. Opportunity, gonna be knocking on my door.
One of these days, I'll read the writing on the wall.
One of these days, I'll be a spectator and an audience a horse.
One of these days, I'm gonna run until I fall.
One of these days, I'll win a lottery and wake up a millionaire.
One of these days, I'm gonna get myself a job.
One of these days, they're gonna stop the world, and I won't even care.
One of these days, I'm gonna finally believe in God.
One of these days, I'm gonna grow up to become the president.
One of these days, I'll find the woman of my dreams.
One of these days, one of these days, I'm gonna find these truths to be still there.
One of these days, but if one of these days, I'll throw my brains out on TV.
One of these days.
One of these days.
One of these days, I'm gonna get in shape, become an astronaut.
One of these days, my fears are gonna fall down the stairs.
One of these days, I'll sell my soul and let them find out what they bought.
One of these days, I'm gonna shave off all my hair.
One of these days, I'm gonna learn to play and write myself a song.
One of these days, I'll take my conscience out to lunch.
One of these days, I'm gonna buy the plants and build the animal.
One of these days, I'll have the guts to play my hunch.
One of these days.
One of these days.
You 안에 года.
One of these days.
I'm gonna find myación.
One of these days.
Hamilton and配合
Phil constantly Wilson Wilson Rubenvo
Any day now Any day now
What is this?
Any day now
Any day now
What is this?
Any day now
Any day now
You know, I'm told when Cop Shoot Cop put that out,
there was a line about NYNEX in there.
One of these days, NYNEX is going to get the job right.
But in the interest of Radio Airplay, they decided to not go with that.
But see them in concert, I'm sure they'll do it.
Yeah, it's 14 minutes after 10 o'clock.
The program is off the hook.
And, you know, this has been a rather strange week
because something happened.
Actually, it happened late last week.
And it didn't really happen late last week.
It's something that I experienced.
And it's just kind of weird because it's, for me,
the first time this has happened
and certainly not going to be the last time.
To give you a little background,
there was this, well,
an Internet provider known as The Well,
which I'm sure you're all familiar with
because they've been in the news quite a bit recently.
Way back a few years ago
when they were hosts of the Harper's Conference
where we debated computer hacking,
a lot of us got to know each other.
And for me, that was the first time,
other than through regular BBSs,
the first time on the net
that people debated issues,
people that you never saw,
people that you only knew as a certain name.
And you got to sort of attach a persona
to these user handles,
these eight-character names
that just popped up on your screen.
And for years after that,
I've been involved in various debates
from everything from fiber optics case
to the recent Kevin Mitnick story.
And there was this one person in particular
who really annoyed the hell out of me.
And I'm sure a lot of you know what that's like,
especially online.
This was somebody that every time,
every time I posted something somewhere,
anywhere on the well,
guaranteed,
he would post something immediately afterwards.
It's like he had some sort of a manual meter going.
And he knew exactly when I said something.
Within five minutes, it'd be a reply.
And I got so annoyed by this.
Who is this guy anyway?
Why does he always have to come up with these banal remarks
and nitpick to death everything that I say?
And it really, really, really got annoying.
But it also got to be something that I expected.
Something that I was kind of used to.
And so, last week,
I just happened to stumble upon a brand new topic
that had been started on the well
by this very person.
Where he announced to the world
that he had to set the record straight
because he couldn't hide from it any longer.
But he felt that he only had
a short amount of time left.
He had been suffering from lung cancer,
something I had not known.
And that he had reached the point
where he felt that he really didn't have
more than a few weeks
and he had to sort of start saying goodbye to people.
And I was looking at this topic in amazement.
It had 600 replies to it.
And I was going through all these replies,
seeing how people were saying,
you know, I still think you're a jerk.
I can't stand the things you say,
but this isn't fair.
I want to debate with you for years to come,
for decades to come.
It's just not something that's right.
And none of us want this.
And a lot of outpouring of strong emotion.
And I was very upset by this
because I had no idea any of this had happened.
And of course, towards the end of the topic,
I found out that he had, in fact,
passed on about a week and a half ago.
And it was just such a strange feeling,
this person that, I'm told I met him,
but I don't remember meeting him in real life.
Mostly somebody that I've had contact with online.
And that this person suddenly has vanished.
It's a feeling that you're just not used to online.
You're kind of used to it in person.
It's weird how you get used to it in person,
but online it takes on a whole new meaning.
So this user ID, it's still there,
but the person is no longer there.
So it was a very disquieting moment.
The person's name, by the way, is Tom Mandel.
And if you want to go through the well
and see some of the heated debates
that we've had over the years,
I'm sure they're all still there.
And I just, I wish I had the chance to at least say goodbye.
But the internet is very fleeting sometimes.
And it doesn't give you any second chances,
as I'm sure a lot of us are aware of.
There was an article about it in last week's Time magazine.
In fact, it was the article to our readers
because Tom Mandel worked for Time magazine.
He worked for America Online, I believe.
And despite that, he still was a good person.
And it's something that hit me kind of hard.
I'm sure it hit a lot of people on the internet kind of hard
because he was online all the time.
It wasn't just me that he annoyed.
He annoyed hundreds of people.
And that's what a lot of the net is about,
just getting people to react, respond.
And it'll be interesting to see how this is written
in the history of the net
and how similar things like it transpire in days to come.
So that's the story there.
Kind of strange for me.
I'd like to know if anyone else has had similar types of encounters.
Speaking of strange things,
something strange happened in England this past week.
I guess it was.
Phone day.
We've talked about phone day before.
Phone day was this phenomena that occurred
where the entire country,
the entire country of England
inserted an extra digit
before all of their phone numbers.
So from 2 a.m. on Easter Sunday,
every single city code
had a, I believe it was a one placed before it.
And some cities, including Bristol, Leeds, Leicester,
Nottingham, and Sheffield,
have entirely new codes.
And a lot of confusion for a lot of people.
You think introducing new area codes in this country is strange.
Well, over there it was downright traumatic.
So anyway, according to,
I believe this is The Guardian,
so I'm up to my mailbox.
The simplest way for callers from outside the UK
to deal with the phone day changes
is to think of England's well-established
international country code 44
as becoming 441.
That's right.
I remember when you used to dial 441 to reach London,
but now you dial 4,
well, then you dialed 4471 or 4481.
Now you're going to have to dial 44171 or 44181.
It's getting crazy.
So to ring the Financial Times in London,
I guess that's the paper this came from,
a caller outside the UK would first dial the code
for an international call,
which is usually 00,
but in our country it's 011.
Follow that with the country code,
which is 44,
then the city code,
which is 1 plus the old city code in most cases,
for instance, 171 for London,
and then the exchange and switchboard numbers,
which in the case of the Financial Times
would be 873-3000.
So if you wanted to call the Financial,
well, let's say you wanted to call
the Financial Times 10 years ago,
you would have dialed 011-411-873-3000.
Last year you would dial 011-4471-873-3000,
and now you will dial 011-44171-873-3000.
Yeah, it's getting crazy.
And in case anyone out there is keeping track,
five cities have new prefixes,
Bristol becomes 179,
Leeds 132,
Leicester 162,
Nottingham 159,
and Sheffield 142.
These are not soccer scorers,
these are phone codes.
Okay, that's pretty much all the news of this week,
so we'd like to hear from you
as far as what's been going on out there.
212-279-3400 is our phone number.
The program is off the hook,
where we talk about the latest in the internet
and the telephone network
and all kinds of other fun things.
You know, there's something wild going on outside
in the streets of New York.
I don't know if anyone's walked around,
but what's with the phone booths?
All the phone booths have these weird advertisements going,
these scrolling advertisements
like it's on the side of the Herald Square building
or something.
I've never seen anything like it.
Bright red letters.
I mean, I've seen these things,
but not on phone booths.
And every single one of these phone booths,
of course,
now can be hacked in a different way.
If someone can figure out how to get into those signs,
they can change what those signs say rather simply.
I believe all it takes is a keyboard.
I'm sure there's a whole committee out there
that started right now to figure out just how to do that.
It caught me by surprise.
I don't know if this has been going on for some time,
but I saw about three of them today,
and I hadn't seen one before that,
so maybe I was just in the dark or something like that.
So if anyone's seen anything interesting like that,
please give us a call and we can share it together.
212-279-3400.
Also, one other thing before we go to the phones.
We talked about Bernie S. last week in prison.
Basically, he was arrested,
put in prison, $100,000 bail
for possession of two red boxes.
This is in Philadelphia.
Last week, we told you how we visited him a week ago yesterday,
how those charges have been dropped,
new charges put in their place
for having the software necessary to modify cellular phones.
Mind you, not modifying cellular phones,
having the software to do it.
That was the crime.
Federal charges, not local charges,
and as far as we knew,
the bail was being held in exactly the same amount, $100,000.
We have not heard from Bernie S. since then.
We tried to reach him unsuccessfully,
or he tried to reach us unsuccessfully last week.
Maybe we'll get through to him this week.
I tried to call the prison that he was in today.
They refused to tell me if he was still there.
They just would not give that information out.
So I don't know what's going on.
We'll have to just play this one by ear
and see what's happening.
And if we're able to get an address
for people to write to him at,
that's something we'll certainly give out.
212-279-3400.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Ah, terrific.
I've got a couple of questions
I hope you can answer for me,
some of them about the Internet.
I'll try.
First of all,
can you recommend any good software
that would give me or let me access
a SLIP or a PPP account for Windows?
Well, for Windows,
there's...
I hate Windows myself,
but there's a basic package
that most systems have.
I believe it's called Winsock.
And a lot of systems use that.
And if you're into Windows,
it should work for you.
And you can get it for free
from most systems.
You don't have to go out and...
Once you sign up for a system,
they supply you with the software.
Okay.
But you think this would be better
than one of the commercial packages,
let's say, from WinFax,
from Delrina, WinFax Pro,
or, you know,
one of those other people.
You're better off working
with a local Internet provider
who will help you out.
Yeah, not just buying something somewhere
that doesn't work
and no one will help you
once it doesn't.
Okay.
What does ISDN stand for?
What is it again?
ISDN?
Integrated Services Digital Network.
Yeah, the reason I can never remember
is because it doesn't really
flow very well.
Integrated...
Yeah, it still does nothing for me.
Okay.
And now what is ISDN going to do for us
that, let's say, parts can't?
Well, it's going to actually
revolutionize the way phones work.
You'll be able to do
many things at once.
You'll be able to have
a computer, for instance,
set up at all times
in your home
at a very high speed
without having to
get all this extra equipment
that you would need now
without having to have
a dedicated phone line.
You'll be able to have
faxes sent at the same time
that you're on the phone.
All kinds of things.
Basically, just imagine
all the communications technologies
tied together
into one neat little package.
That's kind of what
they're thinking.
Okay.
We haven't yet seen it here
because certain things
are kind of slow
to be implemented.
But that's, you know,
in a nutshell,
that's what it's supposed
to be all about.
Terrific.
Two last ones
and I'll make these quick.
Okay.
I saw an ad
for some modems
that were faster
than 28.8.
Then they seemed
to disappear.
I'm wondering
were these things
pulled back
because of technical reasons
for the FCC or what?
And the last one is
what is the Gutenberg Project?
I can't help you
with the Gutenberg Project.
Anyone here know
about the Gutenberg Project?
No.
We're drawing blanks
on that all around.
But as far as the modems,
I do know that
with compression
and various trickery
like that,
speeds of higher
than 28.8
can be advertised.
I've never seen
a modem at higher
than 28.8, though,
as the base speed.
I've never actually seen.
I mean, the next step
would probably be 56K
and that requires
a dedicated line of sorts.
So if you have
further information
on that,
forward it over.
I'd like to see
a copy of the ad
so I can know
exactly what to look into.
No, if I had it,
believe me,
that wouldn't have
been the problem.
But, like I said,
I just saw it
in one dealer magazine
and then I don't
see the ad anymore.
It probably was
a creative use of words.
That's the only thing
I can think of.
No, no.
There was actually
some hard numbers there.
It wasn't, you know,
they said the new
standard is here.
I can't remember
who the heck did it
because I was saying
to myself,
well, shoot.
Well, keep in mind,
it's only a standard
if more than one side
uses it at the same time.
Yeah.
Well, that I know.
All right.
Thanks a lot.
All right.
Take care.
Bye-bye.
212-279-3400.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Yeah, I have a question
for you.
I have a problem
with my phone
and my radio
is coming through
and 9X told me
to call the FCC
because I couldn't
put the presser on,
et cetera, et cetera.
Any advice
am I going to be able
to give me?
Well, now,
are you receiving
interference from
a radio station?
Yeah, like 1230 AM,
something like that,
you know,
with high-end frequency,
like a, you know,
it's a kind of weird
AM station.
So you're getting,
are you near an AM
transmitter?
No, it's definitely,
it's not,
I'm not really,
I'm in Brooklyn,
Williamsburg,
and it's definitely
not,
it's caused,
I guess,
by, there's two lines
being split into,
you know,
one line being split
into two,
but usually there's
a problem when you
have the mobile phone,
you know, the.
Well, let me ask you
this, do you know
where the phone line
comes into your place?
Yeah, right,
it's on a window.
Okay, where the phone
company actually goes
up to, you know,
where that point is?
Okay, can you plug
a phone into that
particular point?
I can't see it
because it's like
four stories below me
and it's like,
in a seal-off area.
Okay, what you need
to do is,
is somehow get access
to that,
plug a phone
into that area,
see if you have
the same problem there.
If you do,
it's definitely
the phone company's
problem and they
have to deal with it.
If it's something
that's taking place
because of the wiring
inside your house.
They try to rewire,
you know,
a new line from the,
from the CEO
and they would,
they said it didn't
solve the problem.
Is yours the only
phone line that's
getting this problem?
No, they have
repeated the other
problems with other
phones in the area,
but they said
it's not going to
take like two or three
years until they get
the fiber optics
to be laid down,
but I don't believe
that.
But what bothered me
was I had,
their response was
actually called the
FCC by the radio
station.
Well, I mean,
that's,
it's not,
it's not your
responsibility to do
their work for them.
Yeah.
I mean,
it's their problem
and what I would do
is get together
with a bunch of
other people
and complain about
the same thing
and make it public
because this is
something the phone
company has to deal
with.
Especially if it's,
if it's taking place
with their wiring,
which it sounds
like it is
if other people
have their phone.
Yeah, I mean,
it's not like
as if it's my phone
or it's their
wiring,
they refuse to
send the money
to put extra
wiring in
to my neighborhood.
Uh-huh.
Well, then definitely
contact the Public
Service Commission.
You'll know they
didn't tell you
to call them,
but those are the
people I would
suggest you call,
the numbers in
the front of your
phone book.
Public Service
Commission,
don't even stop
at the President's
hotline,
or helpline rather,
just go right over
to the Public
Service Commission,
explain to them
exactly what you
explained to me,
and say how many
people in your
neighborhood
are having the
same problem.
They'll take an
interest,
and you'll get a
call back pretty
quickly.
All right, great.
All right?
Thanks a lot.
All right, take care.
That happens a lot.
You think that you're
the only person
with these weird
problems, but there
are actually quite a
few people out there.
For instance, you
get these weird
calls on your
phone bill that
you know you
didn't make, but
they're on your
phone bill.
They were made
from your phone
line.
That means that
someone had to do
it from your house.
You're guilty, even
though you live by
yourself.
Somehow you did
this.
That's what the
phone company has
you believing, but
in actuality, this
happens all the
time.
It happens in many
different ways.
The phone company
crosses wires.
The phone line
shows up in two
different houses at
the same time.
A linesman climbs
up on a telephone
pole and decides to
go crazy with some
900 numbers.
Someone goes into
the basement of
your apartment
building and plugs
into the panel of
where all the phone
lines come in.
Phone lines go
through other
people's homes
sometimes.
It's very, very
easy to do this.
It's very easy for
anything to go wrong
with your phone
line.
Phone lines are
not very secure.
If you think
something is
strange on your
phone line, it
probably is.
Don't assume that
you're wrong just
because the phone
company tells you
you are.
Good evening.
You're on the
air.
Yes, go ahead.
Oh, well, I just
found something very
interesting.
I posted to
alt.2600.
By the way,
congratulations on
getting 2600.com up.
Oh, thank you.
Thank you very much.
Anyway, I got this
email from this guy,
Cracker Buster,
right.
Okay, let me
explain what that's
all about.
Everybody who
posted on the
alt.2600 Usenet
News Group, and
this is about the
second or third
time this has
happened, received
mail back from
this fake email
address called
Cracker Buster at
what is it,
polizei.de, which
I think is the
German word for
police, and DE,
of course, means
that it was in
Germany.
Well, that's not a
real site.
It was a forged
email address.
What apparently
happened was someone
was running some
kind of an
automated process
on our favorite
system, which is
guess what?
Netcom.
Yes, Netcom once
again has allowed
its system to be
accessed by people
that don't have any
respect for the
net, and they sent
email back to the
person that posted
the message to that
person's system
administrator, and
also to me three
times, which is kind
of funny.
We wound up
getting, I think,
15,000 messages in
24 hours, which
was interesting to
see all those
messages pile in.
It was the first
real test of our
2600.com system, and
it handled it very
well.
They were very easy
to get rid of very
quickly, so it
didn't cause much of
a problem, but it
certainly caused a
lot of discussion on
the net.
What I basically
suggest people do is
contact Netcom,
contact root at
Netcom, admin at
Netcom, postmaster at
Netcom, call
Netcom, I think in
San Jose, California
area, code 408, I
don't know the rest
of the number, and
complain, and do
whatever you have to
do to see that Netcom
does not keep
disrupting the net,
because that's where
I really place the
blame.
People are able to
do this so easily,
and it always comes
from Netcom.
Obviously, Netcom is
the problem.
Unlike the well,
unlike panics,
unlike the decent
systems that are
around that explain
what the problems
are, what the
insecurities are,
Netcom never says
anything.
They are completely
silent on all these
issues.
we've constantly
been badgering them
to tell us what's
going on, how do
people get access to
your system like
this, what are you
doing to prevent it?
Instead, they come up
with these high and
mighty statements about
how they helped to
capture Kevin Mitnick and
keep the internet safe
for everybody, which is
of course complete
nonsense.
So, oops, I turned up
the wrong volume.
Are you still there?
Yeah.
Okay, so does that
make sense to you?
Yeah.
All right, so don't
worry, don't panic or
anything like that.
It's not the German
police out to get you or
anything like that.
That certainly caused a
lot of panic, I guess.
What's particularly funny
is that it's made the
traffic on all 2600, I
think, triple, which if
the person's intent was
to stop traffic or make
people afraid, it had the
exact opposite effect.
And of course now more
people are flocking to
that news group than ever.
So that's something that I
guess people need to know
about.
So just delete the message
and send mail to Netcom and
complain and find out what's
going on.
212-279-3400.
Good evening, you're on.
Go ahead.
Yeah.
Okay, well I imagine you
need to get your wire fixed on
your phone and maybe a trip to
Radio Shack is in order.
Good evening, you're on.
Oh?
Yes, go ahead.
Hi, how are you doing?
I'm fine, how are you?
Not much, actually.
I was wondering, I don't
know how much of Mac folks
you guys have, that is the
Happy Little Offices of 2600,
Inc., but in the May issue of
MacUser, there's an article
about ISDN.
Okay.
And they seem to really, at
least the person writing the
article, named Shelly Brisbane,
seems to think that 9X is all,
well, happy and jolly as far as
their ISDN installations.
Well, does this person live
anywhere near 9X territory?
I don't know, it doesn't really
say where she lives, but in
the subheading, ramping up to
the fast track, she says about
how, quote, veterans of 40
ISDN installations give Pacific
Bell and 9X high marks for the
work they're doing with ISDN.
Yeah, well, it just goes to show
how, you know, any slant on the
news can make it out there, but I
can tell you, ask anybody that
has dealt with 9X, and I mean
service providers, internet service
providers, businesses, residences,
this is a company that clearly does
not know what it is doing.
They miss appointments, they lose
records, they foul up phone service
beyond comprehension.
It's almost like there's a faction of
9X that's working against 9X.
So maybe one day they'll identify
themselves, but right now I just
would have to say it's too bad there
is no competition.
By the way, you may have seen an ad in
some newspapers from AT&T, full-page ad.
There would be one clear winner if
there was a choice in local phone
service, you.
And they go on to talk about how
long-distance prices have gone down,
a dramatic 66% from 1984 to 1994
because of competition.
It's kind of funny to see them
heralding competition in the long-distance
market.
This is AT&T.
Of course, they never wanted competition
in the first place.
Right, right.
They published this Telephone
Consumers Bill of Rights, which is
kind of quaint.
We the people believe in the right to
have a real choice of local phone
companies, keep our current phone
numbers even if we switch local
phone companies, make a call without
dialing extra numbers even if we
switch local phone companies,
eliminate unfair charges paid to
local phone companies, and be sure
the government requires local
telephone monopolies not to
interfere with real and fair
competition.
Yeah, right.
And they say to send a free
personalized telegram to the chairman
of the New York Public Service
Commission.
I guess you can pretty much send a
free personalized telegram to them
on any subject.
I'm not sure about that, but you can
certainly talk to these people.
Call 1-800-225-5188.
If it's free and personalized, I guess
you can say whatever you want.
But they're encouraging people to
support the Telephone Consumers
Bill of Rights, which is something
that AT&T appears to have come up
with.
I can't really say follow AT&T and
trust everything that they say, but
we certainly do need competition on
the local level.
There's a company that's out of
New Jersey, I think.
They're called IDT.
And they're starting to advertise
that they're the first long
distance provider to actually offer
free internet access with every
account.
Free internet access.
Well, I'd like to see what kind of
free internet access they're
talking about.
There's a number here.
I can give it to you if you
actually want to give them a call.
Go ahead.
It's area code 201-928-1000.
Okay.
201-928-1000?
Yep.
That's them.
Okay.
We'll check that out.
Okay.
And I've really enjoyed the whole
quest for ISDN.
Well, you'll enjoy it a lot more
when we finally get there.
We'll see what ISDN actually does.
Alrighty.
Thanks for calling.
Yep.
Take care.
Bye-bye.
212-279-3400.
Good evening.
You're on.
Hello.
Yes.
Go ahead.
With Emmanuel?
Uh-huh.
Oh, great.
Emmanuel, I just have a quick
question.
A number of months ago, you had a
guest on whose name was Brock, and he
was discussing a publication called
Interactive Week.
That's Brock Meeks, yes, a reporter
from Washington, D.C.
Great.
Do you have any idea how I can get
information on how to subscribe or get
any...
Well, I'll give you Brock's email.
It's Brock, B-R-O-C-K, at well.com.
Okay.
I don't have a computer.
Is there a number or an address where I
could contact him?
I don't have one off the top of my head.
Okay.
Wait.
Do you have one?
Yeah.
Let's have him contact ZIF Publications
in New York.
ZIF Public...
Speak up.
Just contact ZIF Publications in New
York.
They're in the phone book.
They're at One Park Avenue.
They publish Interactive Week, and they
give you information on how to speak
and subscribe to it.
Okay.
I appreciate it.
Okay.
Thanks again.
Good luck.
Okay.
Thanks for that info.
212-279-3400 is our phone number.
Good evening.
You're on Off the Hook.
Hey, guy.
How are you doing?
Okay.
Listen, I wanted to ask you about the
news capabilities of internet providers.
I've really wound up on a wall.
Some people are saying seven days.
Some people are saying three to four.
I think a lot of it's due to the fact
that unfortunately, you know, the disk base
is limited and news groups are growing.
What you're asking is how long is news
stored?
Well, from you, I mean, it seems like it's a
week on most good systems.
Some people are scratching down to three
to four days.
Yeah.
You know, it's...
So they have more?
I don't know who...
I think the bigger systems, obviously,
would store it longer.
I mean, for American Online, I think,
keeps it for a couple...
Oh, for at least a month.
They used to keep it for a couple months.
Now they keep it a month.
Well, there's a flip side to that.
AOL seems to also get it a month later
than anybody else.
That's true, too.
The reason for that...
The reason I learned about that
was once when I was mail-bombed
and I was getting...
Actually, I was being mail-bombed
from all these people
that thought I was a white supremacist
because someone posted this message.
That's why.
Well, no, it's because someone posted
a message saying all kinds
of horrible racial things
with my name somehow attached to it.
And, of course, I was getting mail
from all over the place.
And I was able to trace
how the net actually responded.
First, it was people in New York.
Then it was people throughout
the country then.
It was over in Germany and Europe.
Then it was Asia and Australia.
And then about a week after
it all died down,
AOL started pouring in.
So that told me something that...
I didn't know you guys
had a studio audience.
Yeah, we have a little laugh track
that we press every now.
And I guess I'm pressing it
a little too much.
Two quick comments
about IDT and IOL.
IDT is an interesting company.
They used to provide
callback service.
You'd probably be interested
in that for international callers.
Okay, is that the company
where you would call
from, say, England or France
or something like that?
You'd ring it once
and then it would call you back
with an American dial tone?
Because you would be charged
at outrageous rates
in some countries
for international calls.
So they're now offering
internet access.
But it's free insofar
as if you buy
long-distance from them.
So if you buy
long-distance from them,
they become their customer.
And they built through LDDS,
which I think is the fourth-largest
long-distance company.
That's true.
And they own Metromedia now,
which used to be ITT.
Yeah, they're getting pretty big.
Exactly.
So they actually offer
their long-distance.
You sign up with them,
they'll give you
a shell account for free.
The PPP account is $20.
It saves you $15 off of both.
It's usually $35 and $20.
So it's a decent deal
if you don't mind
getting LDDS.
Which is interesting
because LDDS is the only
long-distance company
that doesn't give you
a surcharge for card calls.
That's true.
Hey, go for it
if it's your want.
And they actually
apparently have
a good news feed as well.
If you call,
I think it's LDDS,
it might be listed
as Metromedia
at this particular point.
But if you call them
and you ask for
the preferred calling card,
you can theoretically,
if you press hard enough,
you'll get a 950 number
which works nationwide,
950-0488.
And I think it's
a 14-digit code.
And basically,
there's no surcharge on that
and it's not as expensive
as calling through
an 800 number.
Exactly.
And they actually,
for some reason,
well, actually a long time ago,
NCIA and I think Sprint
used to offer local calls
through your card calling
were actually cheaper
than putting a quarter in.
That's right.
950-1022 and 1033
used to be the MCI
and Sprint,
respectively, numbers.
People would call
with the phasing in
of equal access.
Those numbers went away.
Unfortunately,
it's a really good idea.
It's something I think
they could make a lot of money on
if they reinstitute that
where you can actually
be at a pay phone,
make a phone call,
and pay the same amount
of money that you would pay
if you were going
directly from your home.
Absolutely.
Absolute last thing.
I just wanted to answer this
even when I get off.
You said someone's going to
talk to the president
of the INEX tomorrow
about ISTN,
at least in part.
That's right.
Someone is going to talk to them.
I'd like to hear
what he has to say
because I hope
he's going to relay
both your story
and the millions
of other stories
that have gone on
about ISTN.
Okay.
I'm sure he will be there
as a representative
for all of us.
Beautiful.
Thank you.
Bye-bye.
Okay.
And by the way,
when you talk to them tomorrow,
don't mention me.
Don't mention this.
Don't mention we're doing
this on the radio.
I don't want any special
treatment here.
I want this to progress
in its natural course.
We're up to day 29 now.
Maybe that's the way
it should be.
Who knows?
Maybe when we get
into the triple digits
I'll feel differently,
but for now,
let's just keep it that way.
But by all means,
let us know what happens
when you plead your case.
212-279-3400.
The program is off the hook.
We have about another 16 minutes,
so let's see how many calls
we can get through.
Good evening.
You're on.
Okay.
Well, that's one
we're going to get through
rather quickly.
Good evening.
You're on.
No static.
No static today.
Good evening.
You're on.
Yes.
Yeah, go ahead.
I've been trying to get through
for a long time
that new switch
that you guys had,
unfortunately,
implemented on you
has been disconnecting me
for about the last two weeks.
Yep, that's progress.
But I'm calling.
Frankly, I think my call
would have been
I'm calling, unfortunately,
along the lines of
Brian S.,
who's in prison or whatnot.
Bernie S.
Bernie S.
Well,
what I wanted to
call about
is that
something
that happened to him
happened to me
just recently
in January
in New Jersey
where
my friend
was charged
with possession
of a red box
by local police
who seemed
who seemed to have
who seemed to have
a keen eye now
to be looking
for these kinds of things.
They knew exactly
which buttons to press
and this and that
and they started
making wild accusations.
Was this one of the
Radio Shack tone dialers?
Yeah, it was.
Okay, listen.
This is what I'm going to
suggest to everybody
out there.
This has gone too far.
You walk into
Radio Shack these days
and you get interrogation
when you try to buy
one of these things,
tone dialers that can
easily be converted
to be red boxes.
Police on the street
are interrogating
people with these.
People are being
locked up for
$100,000 bail
for possession of them.
I want everybody
I don't say these
kind of things often
but I want everybody
to go out
right now
whenever they open again
to Radio Shack
and buy these
tone dialers.
Buy as many of them
as you can.
Okay, this is not
to help Radio Shack,
believe me.
But just buy them
and don't modify them.
Just walk around with them.
And when you start
getting interrogated
for having something
that literally
cannot do anything
but emit a touch tone
then maybe the average
person will see
how crazy this is.
And it will also
become a lot harder
to find people
that have modified ones
and non-modified ones.
That is not the problem.
It's not the problem
what kind of tones
you emit
through this little tiny box.
The problem is the fact
that A,
pay phone calls
are outrageously expensive
so people feel the need
to do this kind of thing.
B, the system
is so incredibly simple
that it just takes
five tones
on a tape recorder
that anybody can emulate
to defeat the system.
And I'm sure
there's a C in there somewhere
but I think that's good enough
for now.
Well,
there's several other things
that actually
make this
more than just
a problem
in terms of harassment.
Okay.
Considering the charge
that he was charged with
was actually initially
a felony charge
of possession
of an unauthorized
telecommunications fraud device.
I actually have
the police report
in front of me
considering I was also
unfortunately
indirectly involved
in this entire procedure.
I mean,
I don't know.
These,
like I said,
we weren't,
he had it in,
on him.
We weren't near
pay phones
at the time
of this entire
proceeding
and this and that
but
at this
point
I would assume
that
harassment
is like
beyond the explanation
for what these people
seem to be doing now.
And also
something else
that I wanted to say
is that
I myself
as a result
of this
and some other things
have been
in jail
for the past
couple of months.
I normally go
to 2600.
I've spoken to you
plenty of times
myself
at these
meetings and whatnot
and
unfortunately
during this
last time
that I had to
deal with
these state
authorities
I finally
found out
something that
to me
makes even
less sense
than the way
people are
prosecuting
these red box
calls
nowadays
I found out
that
I've been
under investigation
by federal
authorities
for so long
that
to me
it seems
as if
they've been
spending
literally
millions of dollars
on me
and I want to
state right now
that I've never
been charged
federally
or state
on a state level
for any sort
of computer crime
but I just
wanted to let
you know
that I myself
have had
my phone
calls
monitored
I've had
pictures of
myself
taken
at various
kinds of
2600 meetings
this was shown
to like
parents of my
friends in order
to show them
what a bad
person I was
and this and that
I was
had so many
things confiscated
from me
I myself
had software
on
how to
technically use
cellular phones
cables
for modifying
cellular phones
also had no
modified cellular
phones
but these
things in
and of
themselves
were confiscated
from me
no record
of them
being taken
from me
was ever
given
I don't know
if I can
get them
back because
what actual
record do I
have of them
taking this
from me
well they're
supposed to
give you a
receipt when
they take
these things
but they
haven't
and this
has happened
to me
twice at
least
and in the
last instance
this being
in the
beginning
of January
they took
off of
this
supposed
possession
of a
red box
they came
to my
house
and they
took
all my
computer
discs
they took
2600
magazines
from me
about
three or
four of
them
and
once again
they have
absolutely
no record
of ever
having taken
this from
me
but I
know
that
I don't
have this
anymore
I mean
this was
about like
five to
six years
worth of
collecting
various files
off of
various
BBSs
and
hundreds
of these
discs
are no
longer
in my
possession
I'm
wondering
if you've
ever heard
of similar
cases
to the
level
where
I mean
back in
September
they took
my hard
drive
and they
didn't
give me
any kind
of record
of them
taking it
at that
time
they took
those
cables
they took
the software
for cellular
phones
no record
of any of
this being
taken from
me
I've heard
countless
cases over
the years
of very
similar things
happening
perhaps not
as well
documented
as yours
from your
point of
view
but this
kind of
thing
does happen
quite a
bit
now I
assume you
know the
entity
that did
this
yes it
was the
secret
service
on both
accounts
however
the FBI
also decided
to show
up in
tandem
I have
unfortunately
found out
the hard
way that
I have
quite a
large file
amassed
on me
okay
okay well
now there's
a couple
of things
a you
can you
can file
freedom of
information
acts to
find out
what kind
of files
they have
on you
and get
the help
of perhaps
the ACLU
on that
one
now the
problem
that a lot
of computer
hackers
have
or people
that are
caught up
in these
kind of
cases
is they
don't know
exactly
what it
is that
these people
are looking
for what
they're going
to charge
them with
and I
don't think
there are
very many
people in
this country
computer
hackers
and non
computer
hackers
that can
say beyond
a shadow
of a doubt
I am
totally
innocent
and there's
absolutely
nothing
that I'm
not afraid
of people
finding out
if you are
one of the
people that
can stand
up and
say there's
absolutely
nothing that
I've done
wrong
and nothing
can be
proven against
me
then you
may be
able to
afford to
actually go
public and
fight these
people and
challenge them
to come up
with something
and if they
are unable
to do this
then perhaps
it will set
a precedent
where they
have to
have some
kind of
valid
reason
before they
go busting
in people's
doors and
seizing equipment
without any
kind of crime
being committed
we need that
kind of a
precedent
where someone
is not afraid
to do that
and that's
why it's
important for
people who
are interested
in this
kind of
thing to
play by
the rules
that is
not go
out and
break all
kinds of
laws because
then when
the pigeons
come home to
roost you're
not going to
be able to
stand on
solid ground
and say
look I
know why
I'm standing
up for
myself
I know
what I
believe in
and this
is my
point of
view and
you violated
my rights
if you think
that you're
perhaps a
criminal then
you're not
going to be
able to do
that as
easily and
it'll be much
more of a
chance to
take you see
my point
yeah I see
I see your
point entirely
and actually
in all the
things that
they have
accused me
of or
supposedly said
that I
might have
been doing
I mean they
never even
really gave
much
explanations
they were
just
frankly I
was in
jail
and when I
finally came
out I found
out that all
this stuff was
gone I found
out that all
these books
were missing
and this
and that
like I said
I've never
been charged
much less
convicted of
any crime
on a state
or federal
level related
to computer
crime
telephony
or anything
related to
this cellular
phone fraud
or nonetheless
however
I'm
I'm absolutely
certain because
unfortunately
I now have
cassette tapes
in my possession
of recorded
conversations
from years
ago
and I
found out
that they
were recently
exploiting a
legal loophole
in the fact
that they have
the ability
to tap a
phone for
20 days
without notifying
the person
and what they
were doing
in my case
was tapping
it for like
say 18 days
and not tapping
it for 5
and then tapping
it again
and they could
do this
ad infinitum
forever and
ever
and unfortunately
they've been
doing this for
years
and frankly
I initially
maybe even
wanted to give
this as a
warning but I
don't even know
what to give
it as anymore
other than
the fact that
in some cases
these guys
must be
really really
bored
well yeah
they're bored
they're suspicious
they're afraid
what you need to do
and you need to do
this quickly
contact the ACLU
get them interested
in this story
they need to take
active interest
in a lot of
these cases
they haven't so far
because there
hasn't really been
something where
they can latch
onto and learn
from and
unfortunately
a lot of people
are suffering
as a result
this sounds
like the kind
of case
where there's
a lot of
material here
a lot of
abuse of
authority
and I don't
see why
they wouldn't
be interested
in that
so by all
means call
the New York
office or if
you're in a
different city
call the office
nearest to you
and let us
know how it
turns out
because it
sounds like a
case that
affects all
of us
yeah that's
why I really
wanted to
finally get
on the phone
and make
sure that
everybody knows
I live right
in New Jersey
I'm very close
to New York
and I've lived
there all my
life and this
has pretty much
happened to me
all in New Jersey
and the secret
service that
have been
bothering me
and the FBI
have been coming
from Morristown
and Newark
respectively
so it's all
actually happening
quite close to
Newark
again the most
important thing
in cases like
this is full
disclosure from
us and from
the people that
are that are
abusing our
rights so by
all means tell
as many people
as you can
about what's
going on
telling us on
the radio of
course is a
good start
but continue to
follow this up
legally and let
us know
okay
all right good
luck
and while that
caller was on
the line in
fact I guess
maybe maybe
about two
minutes ago
we just to
demonstrate the
ease of which
we can do
things like
this we
took a
radio shack
dialer which
somebody had
in their
pocket a
non-modified
one and
began the
process of
modifying it
is that the
case now
how are we
doing over
there
well we have
all the tools
and we
actually just
happen to have
all the tools
on us here
I always carry
a soldering
iron with me
just in case
I need to
solder something
and
you've saved
lives with
your soldering
iron haven't
you
okay
well now
where do we
stand in the
operation began
about two
minutes ago
I watched
all the
activity from
here
we've got to
heat up the
solder and it
takes a while
for the soldering
iron to
well you have
four minutes
are we going to
be done in four
minutes
is this a challenge
no it's not a
challenge it's a
question
well we could
actually do that
well you better
hurry because now you
have three minutes and
thirty seconds so
while they're working
on that let's take
another phone call
here 212-279-3400
good evening you're on
off the hook
good evening
yes
unix can be reached
on
800-501
I'm sorry
I mean netcom
okay I was wondering
what you meant by
that
can be reached on
800-501-UNIX
and they connect
various departments
especially sales
I don't know about
excuse me
about technical
backup department
I think you have to
make always have to
call that department
on 408 as to that
IDT company
if you're calling
from New York
you're always going
to have to wait
for them
you call an 800
number
rather than the
201 number
your caller gave
although of course
that would
locally in the
Hackensack area
that's fine
and you have to
wait for them
to always
get back to you
the
what is the name
of it
what you want
the lowest priced
long distance
service of all
and with
all six second
increments
not even a
30 second
initial increment
is from
Metro Media
LDDS
they'll soon be
called Worldcom
formerly ITT
via 800
GUS
GUS
8888
and be sure
to press
2
so that you
get customer
service in
East Rutherford
you don't want
residential
and you don't
have to claim
to actually be a
business
to get
the same
service
a slightly
higher price
as the
residential
customers
pay a monthly
fee
the small
business
do not
they're not
the most
aptly run
place
you always have
to say
and who is
this speaking
because they
almost never
give their
names
when you get
them
and then you
have to tell
them
you have
to call
the 800
number
that's answered
in Buffalo
where they
sell their
rum
sounds like
you're taking
a train ride
around the
country here
you really
have to go
through all
this
you really
have to go
through all
this
East Rutherford
Buffalo
you're going
to get
terrific
rates
by the way
I have
energy left
after all
this
anonymous
call
rejection
in service
now
if there
were some
way to get
through to you
maybe I
could tell
you about
it next
week
but
I'm sorry
if there's
what
if there
were some
way to get
through to you
most weeks
I have my
lines going
the whole
time and I
never do
yeah well
you know
it's a
it's a
crapshoot
for everybody
as far as
getting through
to the
at least
anonymous
call
rejection
besides
in the
Poughkeepsie
ladder
is available
you have
to call
and put
in a
regular
order
there is
no charge
whatever
to put
it into
effect
and if
you have
call ID
it's
free of
monthly
charges
as well
okay
anything else
well
we're out
of time
is a problem
yeah
that is a
problem
okay
thanks
for calling
we do have
to update us
on this
modification
progress
what's going
on over there
well I managed
to get the
old crystal
out
the
color
crystal
and we're
facing it
with a
6.5
megahertz
6.5
megahertz
crystal
okay
this is the
crystal
that got
Bernie S
in a slammer
for $100,000
in my hand
all right
it needs to be
out of your
hand
and into
the
thing
here
we have
about
15 seconds
are we going
to make it
because we have
the news
rebroadcast
coming up
in just a
couple of
minutes
okay
while you're
soldering
I'm sure
we're making
radio history
here
maybe
criminal
history
too
let's
update
people
on the
world news
here
this is
something
straight out
of Iran
and maybe
soon
something
similar
will happen
here
Iranians
who want
their MTV
will instead
get visits
from a special
police unit
formed to
see satellite
TV dishes
which become
illegal today
the ban
will immunize
the people
against the
cultural invasion
of the west
interior minister
Ali Mohamed
Basharadi
said yesterday
in Tehran
his comments
were reported
by Iranian
media
monitored in
Cyprus
via satellite
owners of
satellite dishes
will have
four days
to remove
them
before raids
by police
begin
Tehran
has an
estimated
250,000
satellite dishes
about one
for every
10 inhabitants
I wonder
if we can
get a good
deal on
those
I don't
know
it would
be nice
okay we're
out of time
do we have
a
it's done
all right
so let's
let's see if
this thing
actually works
we're putting
the batteries
in
remember
these are
the tones
that cause
all the problems
in the world
and if the
phone company
would just
fix their
system
there would
be no
problem
let's see
if it
works
this is
this is
one of the
tones
I'm programming
real
so
okay
this is
very tense
you hit
memory
and then
one
delicate
operation
okay we
really have
no more
time
we have to
go to the
news
memory
star five
times
that's what
I've done
all right
well
it was
close
we don't
have a
second
we're out
of time
we're out
of time
sorry
but it's
close
it's very
close
okay
and then
we'd have
we'd have
illegal tones
going out
over the
air
but I
guess
we're not
going to
do that
today
thanks
everybody
for joining
us
and for
being a
part of
this
historical
program
here
stay tuned
for a
rebroadcast
of Pacifica
evening
news
this has
been off
the hook
and we'll
be back
again
next week
at the
same time
and I'm
sure by
then we'll
have this
thing
perfected
it only
takes a
couple of
minutes
and it's
really something
that we need
to understand
a little better
I think
in the legal
world
stay tuned
for the
Pacifica
evening
news
rebroadcast
here on
WBAI
New York
good night
good evening
in the news
tonight
a massive
explosion
kills at
least 19
and injures
more than
100
at a
federal
building
in
Oklahoma
City
we have
reaction
from
Washington
and
officials
here
in
our
region
and
we'll
have
a
special
report
on
Mayor
Rudolph
Giuliani
what was
his law
firm's
connection
to the
government
of
Iraq
with
these
and
other
stories
I'm
Jose
Santiago
in
New York
with
Bernard
Avery
Brown
in
Washington
and this
is the
news
for
Wednesday
April
19
1995
we'll
be going
to
Washington
in a few
moments
for the
Pacifica
Network
news
but first
we have
this
update
on today's
explosion
in
Oklahoma
19
people
are confirmed
dead
from an
explosion
that brought
down an
entire wall
of a
federal office
building
in Oklahoma
City
Oklahoma
this
morning
the
Oklahoma
governor's
office
has
confirmed
the
fatalities
which included
17
children
who at
the time
of the
blast
were in
two
separate
daycare
centers
one in
the
building
that was
struck
the other
one
across
the
street
there have
been
unconfirmed
reports
that the
number
of
fatalities
could
end up
as high
as 78
or even
more
as rescue
workers
search
through
what remains
of the
building
looking for
federal
workers
and more
children
believed to
be trapped
in the
rubble
believed to
have contained
as much
as 1200
pounds
of
explosives
the
FBI
is reported
to be
looking for
three
suspects
seen in
the area
of the
blast
riding in
a brown
pickup truck
the men
have been
described as
Middle Eastern
in appearance
late this
afternoon
President
Clinton
made a
brief
statement
on the
bombing
his
comments
followed
by a
description
of the
investigation
as it's
progressed
so far
by Attorney
General
Janet Reno
here now
is a
segment of
that news
conference
again held
late this
afternoon
in
Washington
the bombing
in Oklahoma
City
was an
attack
on
innocent
children
and
defenseless
citizens
it was
an act
of
cowardice
and it
was
evil
the
United
States
will
not
tolerate
it
and I
will
not
allow
the
people
of
this
country
to
be
intimidated
by
evil
cowards
I
have
met
with
our
team
which
we
assembled
to
deal
with
this
bombing
and
I
have
determined
to
take
the
following
steps
to
assure
the
strongest
response
to
this
situation
first
I
have
deployed
a
crisis
management
team
under
the
leadership
of
the
FBI
working
with
the
Department
of
Justice
the
Bureau
of
Alcohol
Tobacco
and
Firearms
military
and local
authorities
we
are
sending
the
world's
finest
investigators
to
solve
these
murders
second
I
have
declared
an
emergency
in
Oklahoma
City
and
at
my
direction
James
Lee
Witt
the
director
of
the
Federal
Emergency
Management
Agency
is now
on his
way
there
to
make
sure
we
do
everything
we
can
to
help
the
people
of
Oklahoma
deal
with
the
tragedy
third
we
are
taking
every
precaution
to
reassure
and
to
protect
people
who
work
in
or
live
near
other
federal
facilities
let
there
be
no
room
for
doubt
we
will
find
the
people
who
did
this
when
we
do
justice
will
be
swift
certain
and
severe
these
people
are
killers
and
they
must
be
treated
like
killers
finally
let me
say
that
I
ask
all
Americans
tonight
to
pray
to
pray
for
the
people
who
have
lost
their
lives
to
pray
for
the
families
and
the
friends
of
the
dead
and
the
wounded
to
pray
for
the
people
of
Oklahoma
City
may
God's
grace
be
with
them
meanwhile
we
will
be
about
our
work
thank
you
and
President
Clinton
did
not
take
reporter
questions
on the
explosion
instead
he
asked
Attorney
General
Janet
Reno
to
describe
the
investigation
to
reporters
the
investigation
that
just
began
today
and
here
is
Attorney
General
Janet
Reno
this
has
been
a
tragic
and
heartbreaking
day
I
can
tell
you
this
the
FBI
and
the
law
enforcement
community
will
pursue
every
lead
and
use
every
possible
resource
to
bring
the
people
responsible
to
justice
the
FBI
has
established
a
command
post
in
Oklahoma
City
and
it
is
in
24
hour
contact
with
FBI
headquarters
command
post
and
with
the
Department
of
Justice
four
FBI
special
agents
in
charge
have
been
dispatched
to
the
scene
to
provide
24
hour
operation
of
the
command
post
the
FBI
has
sent
four
evidence
response
teams
and
explosive
ordnance
teams
to
Oklahoma
City
five
of the
very
best
FBI
agents
experienced
in this
type of
investigation
are arriving
in Oklahoma
City
as have
bomb
technicians
from
Boston
Chicago
Miami
San
Francisco
and
Los
Angeles
13
members
of the
rapid
start
team
will
be
entering
data
as the
evidence
is
collected
50
more
agents
are
available
for
arrival
tomorrow
and
more
will
be
used
as
needed
the
FBI
and
federal
law
enforcement
have
received
superb
cooperation
from
local
authorities
in
Oklahoma
City
and
the
federal
law
enforcement
agencies
are
working
together
the
ATF
has
sent
two
national
response
teams
and
a
mobile
command
center
it
has
three
explosive
technicians
and
three
laboratory
technicians
in
Oklahoma
City
and
it
is
prepared
to
send
20
to
25
more
personnel
tomorrow
the
secret
service
is
also
sending
explosives
experts
in
addition
the
Oklahoma
National
Guard
has
been
deployed
to
assist
in
control
of
the
area
and
the
evacuation
of
the
injured
the
United
States
Army
has
deployed
the
61st
Ordnance
Detachment
with a
robot
from
Fort
Sill
Oklahoma
the
Tulsa
Police
Department
has
deployed
two
bomb
technicians
two
dogs
and a
robot
and
the
FEMA
is
playing
a
major
role
in
aid
and
assistance
we
cannot
tell
how
long
it
will
be
before
we
can
say
with
certainty
what
occurred
and
who
is
responsible
but
we
will
find
the
perpetrators
and we
will
bring
them
to
justice
have
you put
out
a bulletin
seeking
some
particular
suspects
and what
can you
tell us
about that
their
reports
their
descriptions
of a
couple
of people
who were
seeking
what
what I
can
say
about
all
evidentiary
issues
and
all
leads
is
that
it
would
be
it
would
hinder
the
investigation
to
discuss
any
action
that
we
are
taking
and
pursuant
to the
leads
but we
are
pursuing
absolutely
every
shred
of
evidence
available
people
are
to be
on the
lookout
for
someone
isn't
there
a way
that
you
can
instruct
those
people
sounds
from
everything
you've
said
as if
you've
concluded
that this
was a
terrorist
attack
of some
kind
can you
confirm
that
I
would
not
characterize
it
as such
until
the
evidence
is
in
but
we
are
pursuing
every
piece
of
evidence
in
with
whatever
motivation
behind
it
do
have
any
statistics
on
the
casualties
we
have
some
statistics
on
do
is
to
make
sure
that
we
pursue
every
lead
thing
what
we
have
been
told
is
that
there
were
550
people
assigned
in
the
building
only
250
had
been
accounted
for
before
I
came
in
there
may
be
as
many
as
100
to
250
more
people
to
account
for
the
casualty
figures
are
climbing
100
victims
have
been
treated
six
children
who
were
in
the
day
care
center
have
been
confirmed
as
and
we
are
just
pursuing
absolutely
every
lead
that
we
can
in
a
situation
like
this
there
are
sometimes
terribly
misguided
horrible
people
who
create
coffee
cat
situations
we
responded
in each
instance
and so
far
nothing
has
materialized
was
there
any
indication
any
warning
that
anything
like
this
could
happen
because
there
are
conflicting
reports
that
not
specific
warnings
per se
but warnings
that there
might be
terrorist
activity
in the
period
after
March
again
I can't
comment
on any
specific
lead
or
any
of the
evidence
that
we have
developed
we can't
tie up
with
Waco
the
current
crime
bill
that the
president
has
signed
includes
a death
penalty
provision
assuming
you do
catch
these
people
will you
go for
that
18
US
section
844
relates
to those
who
maliciously
damage
or destroy
a federal
building
if there
is death
if death
occurs
the death
penalty
is available
and we
will
seek it
general
Reno
any
more
indication
of where
this
device
exploded
again
that would
be
commenting
on the
evidence
that is
being
developed
and we
would not
want
to do
that
because
to do
so
could
possibly
hinder
the
investigation
general
on the
importance
of this
event
are we
crossing
a new
threshold
of concern
about
security
in this
country
when even
Oklahoma
city
is not
safe
I think
that this
has been
a matter
of concern
for all
Americans
any time
you see
acts like
this around
the world
and I
think it
is a matter
that has
got to be
pursued
with all
vigor
I can't
tell you
whether
it's a
crossroads
I can tell
you that
any time
something like
this occurs
we have to
do everything
possible
to ensure
that the
people who
are responsible
are held
accountable
and that we
do everything
we can
to prevent
a future
of recurrence
we're working
with the
general
services
administration
the united
states
marshal
service
and the
FBI
to take
sensible
precautions
and the
federal
employees
who have
been
involved
have
just
been
wonderful
again
we are
pursuing
all leads
we cannot
tell
exactly
what
happened
or who
is
responsible
and it
would be
better
not to
comment
until we
can
conclusively
talk about
it
has anyone
called
to claim
responsibility
for this
any credible
group
or organization
again
I don't
think
that I
should
comment
on the
evidence
because
to do
so
would
hinder
the
investigation
again
I cannot
confirm
any
evidentiary
lead
that we
are pursuing
because I
think
that would
hinder
the
investigation
general
if
another
government
or
governments
are
found to be
involved
would
military
retaliation
be appropriate
will it be
I don't
think that we
should deal
with what
ifs
I think
we should
make sure
that those
people who
are responsible
and pursued
and brought
to justice
general the
government of
Israel has
offered its
help because
it has a
vast experience
with this
sort of thing
you know
if we're
accepting
that help
we will
of course
rely on
any additional
resource that
can possibly
be involved
and be
utilized
appropriately
in bringing
these people
to justice
thank you
very much
and attorney
general
janet reno
taking reporter
questions
following the
president's
comments in
washington
today
in our
region
police in
new york
and new jersey
stepped up
security at
federal facilities
here
the federal
office building
in lower
manhattan was
evacuated for
several hours
today while it
was searched
by agents of
the bureau of
alcohol tobacco
and firearms
after a few
hours workers
were allowed
back in to
retrieve their
belongings and
leave for the
day at the
peter rodino
federal building
in newack
new jersey
bomb experts
from the
essex county
sheriff's office
searched the
area for
bombs as
well and
found nothing
there officials
there did not
feel the facility
needed to be
evacuated
earlier in the
day new york
city mayor
rudolph giuliani
assured new
yorkers that
officials knew
of no threat
to federal
facilities here
in our region
to the people
of new york
city i think
we should make
it very plain
that there is
no reason for
alarm no reason
for them to
be worried
that something
will happen here
there is no
information no
intelligence no
suggestion that
anything will
happen here
even earlier
in the day the
federal building
in rochester new
york was
evacuated after
someone found
in a bomb
threat just
hours after the
explosion in
oklahoma city
the four-story
kenneth b keating
building houses
about 560
employees working
for a dozen
agencies including
the fbi the
secret service
u.s district
courts and a
daycare center
there as well
a man called a
rochester hospital
at 1222 this
afternoon claiming
he planted a
bomb in the
federal building
there after the
evacuation police
searched the
building but so
far have found
nothing and a
team of fbi
agents and new
york city police
detectives is
headed to
oklahoma city to
help investigate the
car bombing of the
federal building
james calstron agent
in charge of the
fbi's new york city
office as the five
agents making the
trip helped
reconstruct the
1993 world trade
center bombing in
new york the first
deputy police
commissioner john
timoney says that
five city police
detectives and a
captain are also
en route to the
blast site in
oklahoma that is
the latest on the
explosion the federal
building in oklahoma
city today again
19 confirmed dead in
that blast today
there is one report
unofficial report
saying that the
oklahoma city
ambulance service has
been told to expect
as many as 80 bodies
to be brought to a
morgue that has been
set up about 10
blocks from the
building that exploded
this morning we'll
have more details on
it in our newscast as
we get them for the
moment i'm jose
santiago in new
york for the wbai
evening news we go
now to the pacifica
network news in
washington a huge
explosion ripped apart
a federal office
building in downtown
oklahoma city about
nine in the morning
local time a nurse
told a local
television station at
least 78 people were
killed at least 17 of
the victims were said
to be children there
was a daycare center in
the building more than
five hundred people
worked in the building
it housed offices for
the fbi dea the
agriculture department
and the bureau of
alcohol tobacco and
firearms hundreds of
people are being treated
in nearby hospitals the
fbi says the blast was a
car bomb carrying over a
thousand pounds of
explosives white house
press secretary mike
mccurry told reporters
that president clinton is
very troubled by the
explosion he wants to make
sure through proper law
enforcement that
everything is done as
quickly as possible to
bring whoever is
responsible for this
incident quickly to
justice however mccurry
cautioned that at this
time around two in the
afternoon on the east
coast very little is
known it's way too early
at this point to draw any
conclusions about what
has happened in oklahoma
city clearly there's been a
devastating explosion that's
occurred at this federal
building that the cause of
it is unknown and those
responsible are unknown
at this point and we'll
have to develop that very
carefully in the course of
the coming hours and days
an fbi team has been sent
to the site of the
oklahoma city blast today
marks the second
anniversary of the federal
raid on the branch davidian
compound in waco texas at
least 71 people died in that
raid ending a 51 day
standoff between federal
officials and the religious
group turkey's prime
minister tansu chiller says
military operations against
kurdish rebels in northern
iraq are largely over
richard holbrook of the u.s.
state department says the
turkish leader told president
clinton that her country's
troops will return home in
weeks the operation would be
limited in scope and duration
a matter of weeks as she has
said publicly the president
repeated his view that this
is of importance and we
attach high importance to it
no specific timetable was
discussed holbrook said that
turkey's actions do not
violate international law
because it's self-defense
against the pkk a terrorist
organization today the u.s.
supreme court ruled five to
four that a death penalty
inmates conviction should be
overturned curtis lee kiles had
been found guilty of murdering
a woman in 1984 in new orleans
but kiles maintained prosecutors
had failed to disclose evidence
that might have cleared him
including statements by eyewitnesses
a statement by a police informant
and a computer printout of
licenses of cars parked at the
crime scene the majority of
justices found that if there is a
reasonable probability that
suppressed evidence would have
altered the outcome then there is a
constitutional error and so there
should be a new trial a mysterious
research project at the pentagon has
come under a cloud of suspicion the
high frequency active auroral research
project or the harp under construction
at an air force base near gakona
alaska is the first step toward
creating the most powerful ionospheric
heater and electromagnetic transmitter
on earth the ionospheric heater
device would use electromagnetic energy to heat up the ionosphere
and raise the temperature creating any number of interesting effects
which the defense department thinks might be useful
but despite this major scientific feat
the harp has received precious little press coverage
that's true in part because harp is described as either an innocuous
scientific research project
or a potentially ominous defense weapon
depending on which government memo you believe
gar smith a writer for the earth island journal
came across a public and a private pentagon description of the project
the latter was obtained through the freedom of information act
the public document describes harp as being
a project that would enhance present civilian capabilities
in communications and would also quote provide significant scientific
advancements
and the public document also says that
this is a purely scientific research facility
which represents no threat to potential adversaries
and therefore would have no value as a military target
unquote
and you might wonder why they threw that line in there
well
in february 1990
there was an air force navy document that told
another version
of the harp story
and this document claims that quote
from a defense point of view
the most exciting and challenging
part of the experiment
is the potential to control atmospheric processes
for military objectives
and some of those objectives included
disrupting electronic communications
over a large part of the globe
while allowing our defense forces to communicate
there's also an interest in using the ionosphere
to communicate with
deeply submerged nuclear submarines around the world
and the document also said that
the potential for significantly altering regions of the ionosphere
is very desirable
from a military perspective
and it's hard to know
exactly all the plans that they have in mind
but we're concerned because
it sounds a lot like
something called an Eastland device
which would use a similar
electromagnetic beam
to not only create focusing mirrors
in the ionosphere
but also
could affect the upper atmosphere
and change weather patterns
actually a very interesting verb
that the defense department used
in its internal memo
said they're interested in perturbing
perturbing
that's their word
they want to perturb
the atmosphere
the, I'm sorry
perturb the ionosphere
and see how it responds
now I don't know about ionospheres
but when you perturb people
you disrupt them a little bit
that's the other side of it too
the public document
assures people that
here's a quote again
most of the high energy
beam would be emitted upward
rather than toward the horizon
but even in the public document
it later has a little line
saying that
to reduce the percentage of time
large signal levels
would be transmitted
toward large cities
they would take special steps
and the closest large cities
are Fairbanks and Alaska
and when we did a little more research
into this
we found out that
80 to 90 percent
of the experiments
that would be planned
with the ionospheric heater
would redirect
or refract energy
back down toward the planet
so the energy
isn't all going upwards
some of it will be coming down
and any place this energy goes
it can cause human problems
it can cause problems
with fatigue, sleepiness, cataracts, leukemia
it's even possible
that people flying through the beam
in an airplane
could have their
HAARP pacemakers affected
that's a problem
that was spelled out
in some of the documentation
Garth Smith first wrote
about the HAARP project
last fall
for the Earth Island Journal
it's included
in Project's censored yearbook
as the ninth most censored story
of 1994
today is the second anniversary
of the fatal ending
of the federal siege
of the Branch Davidian compound
in Waco, Texas
ever since that siege
and the deaths
of two white separatists
and Randy Weaver's family
in Idaho
ad hoc citizens militias
have been cropping up
around the country
particularly in the West
no one seems to be keeping
an accurate count
of the number of people
training in groups
with semi-automatic
assault rifles
but some estimate
as high as the tens of thousands
these militias
are also capitalizing
on frustrations
with federal regulations
the growing property rights movement
and as Lee Robartes reports
white supremacists
have been attracted
to the movement as well
we would like to
open the meeting
by having
a pledge of allegiance
and we are pledging
allegiance to the flag
of the United States of America
as a republic
under the original constitution
at a militia of Montana
meeting last year
participants emphasized
the bill of rights
to most militia members
the first ten amendments
are divinely inspired
and all others
are the work of man
many believe the constitution
is under attack
John Trochman
who co-founded
what's now called
the militia of Montana
twenty years ago
with his brother
doesn't mince words
when asked
why a militia is necessary
because the federal agents
shot a woman in the face
and her son in the back
because the federal agents
burned children
at the stake in Waco
because the federal government
has been passing laws
contrary to the oath
they've swore to uphold
Trochman describes his militia
as an educational enterprise
indeed the militia of Montana
catalog features videos
of new world order seminars
and manuals with titles like
sniper training and employment
and guerrilla warfare
and special forces ops
the idea Trochman says
is for fellow patriots
to be ready to defend
against the coming tyranny
Trochman and other militiamen
believe that President Clinton
is rapidly preparing
to declare martial law
his evidence for this claim
includes UN military equipment
spotted at US military facilities
foreign troops
training in the US
and recently enacted
gun legislation
aimed at taking arms
out of citizens hands
Trochman says
he has documents
proving the United Nations
is planning to enact
a one world government
by the year 2000
and reduce the world's
population by two-thirds
not through birth control
but through outright murder
we got the same enemy
they're taking food away
from Americans right now
and putting it in
underground UN bunkers
and you're gonna beg to eat
or you're gonna die
the whole idea
of the administration
that runs this country
is to reduce our population
by two-thirds
militia of Montana
researcher and spokesman
Bob Fletcher
says the term militia
originated with the
second amendment
of the constitution
as long as the people
can maintain armament
then there would be
a less likelihood
of having a tyrannical
control of government
which we originally had
when the country was created
and it was stepping away
from a dictatorial monarchy
at that time
to the human rights community
the rhetoric of the
militia supporters
and their leaders
is cause for concern
for example
in a militia of Montana video
Fletcher tells fellow patriots
that a book designed
to make children
more tolerant of gays
Heather Has Two Mommies
is straight out
of the Clinton White House
I used to read golden books
when I was a youngster
and it was
see spot run
for crying out loud
that's how I learned to read
I certainly don't need
Heather Has Two Mommies
that's serious trash
being brought into our
schools