hello hello hello hello oh a rerun i've seen this one
poisoned arts with janna coleman david dozer jim frein mary millison steve post a.j sloan
sydney smith and peter zanger is writ by dave dozer directed by anarchy radio technique by
peter zanger this program is produced in the united states of america
and this is radio station wbai in america three minutes after 10 o'clock time for off the hook
the telephone keeps ringing so i ripped it off the wall i cut myself while shaving
now i can't make a call it couldn't get much worse
but if there could be wood
but i best expect the worst
i hope that's understood
Thank you.
Thank you.
And good evening.
Another fun-filled, action-packed hour of telecommunications and computer cyberspace-type things is on its way to you right now.
This is Off the Hook.
Every week we come your way from 10 to 11 p.m.
The only difference being this week we're asking for your support to help us stay on the air and to keep our station strong.
So the phone number is 212-279-3400.
And we have lots of things to make your pledge a whole lot easier for you.
You can call and ask our volunteers for more information, or you can stay tuned and hear what we have.
We'll be right back.
And that's always fun.
But that phone number is 212-279-3400.
Let's see some phone calls come in so that the computer people don't think that they get more calls than us.
Okay, well, we lost the calls that were on the switchboard with that remark, but hopefully more people will call in.
Here's what we have.
For a pledge of $75, you can get what is known as the 2600 Magazine Package.
That's a full year of 2600 Magazine, the Hacker Quarterly.
It's the magazine that everyone's talking about, the magazine that people read when they want to know what's going on in the world of hackers.
And latest in technology, latest in phone tricks, and computer design flaws, and things like that.
You'll get that, a full year of that, four quarterly issues.
And in addition to that, you'll get the 2600 T-shirt, which has a schematic of a blue box on the front,
and a whole bunch of computer hacker-related articles on the back.
And it is soon to be out of print.
That's right.
And we also have a few more copies.
I don't know exactly how many we have, because I couldn't get a straight answer out of the tally room, people.
But I think we have a few left of the Masters of Deception book that we were giving away last week.
And that's for a pledge of $100.
You can get a copy of that book, which details the fascinating chronicles of our very own fiber optic,
among many others in the Hacker Underground.
And you'll get, in addition to that, a subscription to the magazine, 2600.
That's for a pledge of $100.
But, I should point out that you can pledge any amount to support us.
It's really quite simple.
212-279-3400.
We have no calls.
When we start getting some calls, we're going to go into what's been going on in the last week.
Some interesting stories.
Stay tuned.
We'll see you soon.
Thank you.
2-1-2-2-7-9-3-4-hundred.
Let's see some support for the Voice of Hackers.
The only Voice of Hackers in New York.
In America, really.
As far as I can see, I don't think there are any other hacker programs on.
Let's hope it's the start of something else, something bigger where many other shows like this exist.
I'd like to see that.
2-1-2-2-7-9-3-4-hundred.
Show your support.
Show that freedom of speech still means something.
2-1-2-2-7-9-3-4-hundred.
2-1-2-7-9-3-4-hundred.
Okay, looks like we have a full switchboard, which is very heartening to see.
I want to thank everybody who's calling in right now.
Again, to remind people what we have.
First of all, any amount is appreciated.
Any amount adds up.
Any amount will help make us stronger.
But, if you pledge $75, you will get...
Assuming you want this, of course.
You will get a full year of 2600 magazine delivered to your door, your P.O. box,
someone else's door, someone else's P.O. box, or whatever.
As well as a 2600 t-shirt, which is the definitive hacker design.
Um, fashion design, I guess.
And that will be sent to wherever you tell us to send it.
Assuming you pay up, that is.
And, if you pledge $100, well, then you'll get, assuming you want it,
a copy of a hardcover copy of Masters of Deception,
the book that came out earlier this year,
detailing the chronicles of the underground.
One person's perspective, I'll put it that way.
There were a number of people in the hacker world that disagreed with the way that book portrayed things,
and I certainly had a number of problems with it myself.
But, here's an opportunity to read it, and see for yourself.
In addition to that book, for a pledge of $100, you'll get a subscription to 2600 magazine,
The Hacker Quarterly.
So, you'll be up to date on whatever is going on.
Our most recent issue, we had some very interesting excerpts from the directory of Kevin Mitnick,
as alleged by federal law enforcement personnel.
Well, you may see for yourself why the story isn't exactly what's being reported in the New York Times.
And, maybe, it's not exactly what's going to be in the book that will be coming out soon.
All about this.
The book by John Markoff and Shimmer Moore.
Which, I don't know, I have some big questions for those guys,
as to what exactly they're going to be writing about, as far as Kevin Mitnick.
Now, we told you last week that we've gotten a hold of some documents
concerning why Kevin was on the run in the first place.
And, after talking to a few people, it seems that half of the reason why they were after him,
namely, associating with somebody who was a known felon,
well, it seems that that just wasn't true.
We're in the process of getting paperwork to prove that that was not true,
but supposedly that part of it was stricken.
And, the only thing that they were looking for Kevin Mitnick for
was to ask him questions about this company he was working for.
This company that hired him that was later suspected of doing something illegal.
And, the weird thing is, the company was suspected of doing something illegal.
They didn't seem to get in any trouble at all,
but Kevin Mitnick was the one who was blamed for virtually everything.
And, that's it.
That's the only thing we can find so far as to why a nationwide manhunt that spanned a couple of years
and made the front page of every newspaper in the country,
that's the origins right there.
That's the world's most dangerous hacker.
Go figure.
212-279-3400.
That's the kind of information you'll get from 2600 Magazine
if you take advantage of that particular offer that we have right now.
But, the most important thing is that you'll be supporting a very important voice in New York.
The radio station WBAI.
Station like no other.
Like no other in New York.
Like no other anywhere that I can see.
I've heard of the Pacifica stations, actually, in other cities.
Los Angeles, Berkeley, Washington, D.C.
But, you know, there's something unique about this one.
I mean, they're all great, too.
They really are.
But, there are so few of them.
There are only five Pacifica stations in the country.
Only five.
The rest of the stations that carry Pacifica News are affiliates,
and they have their own voices in different ways.
But, the Pacifica stations, 24 hours a day,
bring you alternative programming with alternative thoughts and ideas.
That's the important thing, is to support that.
212-279-3400.
Okay, as promised.
Let's go into some listener mail here.
Someone from 9X Territory.
I'm trying to see where exactly they're from.
Looks like somewhere in either Brooklyn or Queens.
They received the following form from 9X.
Now, this is the form we've talked about before.
This is a form a few of us have gotten.
And, it says, urgent, dated material.
This was sent to a business.
And, addressed to the person who owns the business,
we recently tested our lines that provide you with telephone service,
and found that you have touch-tone service.
However, our records show that, due to our error,
we're not billing you for this feature.
We need to speak to you about correcting this situation,
but have been unable to reach you by telephone.
Please call to either advise us to begin billing you for this feature,
or tell us to discontinue it.
The business monthly charge for touch-tone service is $1.30.
We will not back bill or apply any connection charges
if you wish to continue using this feature.
However, if you discontinue this feature now,
and decide later to have us reconnected,
connection charges could apply.
Please call 1-800-596-9639
to speak to a service representative by June 7, 1995,
to let us know if we should continue,
or actually discontinue the touch-tone service,
or start billing for it.
If you have already spoken to one of our service representatives
about this matter,
please disregard this letter.
If we do not hear from you by then,
we will have to continue,
I'm sorry,
we'll have to discontinue the feature.
Well, what do you think of that?
That's a letter a lot of us have gotten,
because I don't know why this person got it so late.
All the mechanical switches,
crossbars and the equivalent,
did not have the capability of distinguishing
who was paying for touch-tone and who was not,
so everybody got touch-tone service.
It wasn't really a big deal.
However, upon switching to digital and electronic switches,
such as the 1A, the 5ESS, DMS-100s,
the capability suddenly existed
to just program out those people that weren't paying
and tell the dial-tone to ignore their touch-tones.
And then they sent out these letters to everybody
to try to get them to pay that fee.
And supposedly this fee is on the way out.
I've been hearing that it was supposed to be discontinued by now,
but it hasn't been, obviously.
For residential service,
it's something like 50 cents a month.
And for businesses, as we can see,
it's $1.30.
It's a pure rip-off,
probably as pure as you can see,
with the possible exception of having to pay
to have your name not listed in the phone book.
Free money for 9X.
And it's something that phone companies around the country
have discontinued already.
9X, as usual, is lagging way behind.
Let's give a call to that 800 number,
see what they say.
Probably not in.
You'll know it's on using touch-tones.
You have reached the 9X Records Purification Office.
The office is currently closed.
Records Purification.
The records are Monday through Friday
from 8 a.m. to 6 p.m.
Thank you.
Records Purification.
That is...
That's one for the books.
Records Purification.
I'll purify their records.
Okay.
Enough of that.
Again, that number,
if you want to talk to them about this anymore,
is 800-596-9639.
Oh, what fun.
What else do we have here?
We've got all kinds of listener mail.
We've got all kinds of listeners out there.
60 bucks?
Is that all we have?
No, I can't be right.
We had a full switchboard before.
I hope that number goes up quite a bit.
So, 212-279-3400.
I'm told we don't make a thousand bucks during this hour.
Someone's going to have to answer for it.
And seeing as how I'm the host of this show,
I can't imagine anyone else I could pass it off on to.
So, 212-279-3400.
You're sitting around?
Please.
This is our last night on this program
asking for funds.
So, we do need to hear from you.
So, 212-279-3400.
Please make those phones light up.
Make us happy.
Now, here's a letter
from somebody else in New York
who says,
Howdy, Emanuel.
Boy, computers and 9X are giving me lots of fun this year.
Enclosed, you'll find copies of some letters to TRW
and the Public Service Commission
detailing my adventures of late.
In summary, they are...
TRW has my social security number
associated with someone else's name.
Well, that's something.
9X is lying about the purpose of the touch-tone fee.
That's nothing new there.
9X's new yellow calling card only pay phones
don't allow...
He never finished that sentence.
But, you know, they don't allow so many things
that I can see how he would leave that open-ended.
There's a lot of things those yellow phones don't allow.
And, uh...
Okay, we'll get into that in a minute.
9X does not correctly list the Public Service Commission
in the white pages.
Well, that's kind of funny.
Let's, uh...
Let's see if 9X lists them at all.
Get a friendly information operator here.
Hopefully.
What listing, please?
Uh, yes.
Hello.
I'm looking for the number for the PSC, please.
Do the initials stand for any words or names?
Uh, I believe it stands for the Public Service Commission.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I'm checking for it.
Okay.
There's nothing saying commission.
Is it the New York State Department of Public Service
that deals with consumer complaints for utilities?
Uh, yes.
I believe that would be it.
Uh, specifically the phone company.
Do you have anything for that?
Gas, water, electric, and communications
is all the same toll-free number.
One moment.
Okay, thank you.
You're welcome.
The toll-free number is 800-342-B377.
Again, the toll-free number is 800-342-B377.
3377.
Thank you.
Thank you very much for recording.
Yes, that is the proper number.
I guess it's not listed in the phone book
as Public Service Commission.
It's probably listed in those blue pages or something
under New York State.
So, yeah, it's kind of difficult to do that.
So that's something to keep in mind,
something to perhaps complain about a bit.
Now, here's an interesting story.
9X is misrepresenting the purpose
of paying the touch-tone fee,
and I asked the Public Service Commission
to ensure they not do so in the future.
While placing an order for new phone service,
I said I did not want the touch-tone service.
The 9X employee then said that if I didn't pay the fee,
I would be unable to call someone via pager.
This is absolutely untrue.
Touch-tone service has only to do
with 9X's switching equipment,
not ignoring my touch-tones to place a call,
not with a pager company's equipment
listening to my touch-tones.
It is quite simple to get around a touch-tone fee
by using a phone that can generate
both pulse and touch-tone.
The pulse dialing is used for making calls.
Once connected to a pager, voicemail,
or other interactive systems,
users can simply flip a switch to tone dialing
and enter the needed numbers.
I explained these facts to the 9X representative,
but she was adamant that I'd need
to pay the touch-tone fee.
I feel she was blatantly lying,
willfully misleading me,
doing so because that is what 9X trained her to do.
The Public Service Commission must ensure
9X no longer engages in such unethical activities.
The PSE should see that 9X management
speaks with each of their sales representatives
to explain that paying the touch-tone fee is not needed.
In addition, 9X should be required
to include a notice in their billing newsletter
that explains the touch-tone fee
and how consumers can use their phones,
interactive phone services, and pagers without it.
Hear, hear, absolutely.
That's something that's long overdue.
What's long overdue really is elimination
of that stupid fee altogether.
Now on to the...
Oh, welcome.
FiberOptic is here.
Welcome.
Perhaps one of you people not talking
can get up and give them a seat.
Thank you so much.
We're talking about those yellow payphones.
You know the yellow payphones?
I've seen them all over the place.
They're all over the place.
They're spreading like a virus.
And you know,
what's bad about those phones is,
as this letter attests,
they don't allow you to do a lot of things.
Now, listen to this.
9X's new yellow payphones for calling cards,
for calling cards only, that is,
do not allow individuals to make calls to 800 numbers.
The phone I encountered
is on the northwest corner of Houston Street
and Broadway in Manhattan.
I think we know that one.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, he was kind enough to give the phone number.
Let's call it and see what happens.
Whoa.
Okay, rather jubilant dial turn there.
Never called one of these before.
Nothing's happening.
The number you have reached,
677-9863.
Area code, 212.
Not in service for incoming calls.
The number you have reached,
Well, let's add to the list,
they do not allow incoming calls either.
Isn't that something?
So, now we have these yellow payphones
spreading all over the streets.
Don't allow you to call 800 numbers.
Don't allow you to call 950 numbers.
Don't allow you to place local calls
unless you have one of those stupid calling cards,
which cost more than making a local call
in the first place,
and you can't even call them.
And they're spreading.
They're all over the place.
What do we do about this?
No idea.
Well, that's something else
to be concerned about.
And, uh, that's pretty much it
as far as that particular writer,
uh, says,
as far as his list of complaints.
Very valid list, I think.
Uh, five of you missed it.
We called the Office of Records Purification.
Of what?
I'm not kidding.
I am not kidding.
There is an Office of Records Purification
that, um,
that you call to discuss
why you haven't been paying
a touchtone fee.
You think I'm joking?
You're looking at me like I'm crazy.
No, we called it live on the air,
and it was,
that's what they said.
Yeah.
Purification.
Purification.
Said it.
Like some kind of
baptismal kind of thing?
Um, yeah, something like that.
They have high hopes.
Uh, so,
we can call it tomorrow
during the day
and ask them just, uh,
what their paychecks say
if that's the department
they really work for.
Um, okay,
we got a,
we got a letter here.
Let's see, how are we doing?
$135?
Oh, I,
we should be doing
a lot better than that, folks.
We should be doing
a lot better than that.
Especially seeing
all those calls
coming in before.
212-279-3400.
Please call us
while we're speaking.
We, we need to raise
more than this.
Or else, uh,
you may be hearing
Newt Gingrich here
in the years ahead.
In some form,
you may be.
Maybe not his voice,
but certainly a program
that he would like
rather than one
he wouldn't like.
I mean,
he would hate this program.
Think about that.
Think how much
he'd hate it.
Ooh.
Think how much
Jesse Helms
would hate this show.
Think how much
9X already hates
this show
and all the other
big phone companies
out there.
212-279-3400.
Please, let's get
that number up
a little higher.
Uh, $75 will get
you 2600 magazine
for a year
and a 2600 t-shirt.
$100 will get you
Masters of Deception,
the hardcover
that came out
earlier this year
and a year of 2600.
So, please call us.
212-279-3400.
Every pledge helps.
And for every pledge,
you'll get a year
of the WBAI program guide.
Now, here's a, uh,
here's a letter
that, uh, I think, uh,
Fiber, you might find
fairly interesting.
It's, uh,
concerning some of the
things we were talking
about over the past
couple of weeks.
Actually,
concerned last week's
show in particular.
I think this guy is
a ham radio operator
or something.
All right, you ready?
Yep.
Here we go.
Dear Manuel Goldstein,
regarding your
marathon program,
please get your facts
straight.
One,
if you had read
the scanner magazines
carefully,
you would have seen
that A,
we're up to 1A
right now,
plenty of scanners
are available
which cover
the cellular band.
You can buy them
by mail from Canada.
They are plentiful.
Didn't we say that?
Maybe we left out
the mail part.
We said you can get
them from Canada,
but, uh, you know,
you can go to Canada,
you can have them
mailed, you know,
maybe customs won't
bother you,
maybe they will.
It's hard to say.
But, yeah,
you can get them.
They're in Canada,
and that's because
Canada doesn't have
the same laws as the
United States,
not yet anyway.
B, 1B.
Lots of scanners
are modifiable,
not only for 900
megahertz,
but to increase
performance,
scan rate,
to add channel
capacity, etc.
Oh, yes.
We said that, too,
didn't we?
Yeah.
Yeah.
You can modify scanners,
and we were talking
about 800 megahertz,
not 900 megahertz.
Okay.
Now, number two.
Your friend's scanner
was correctly marked
with the warning
we received 900
megahertz public
service band.
See here?
Is our friend here
that, uh,
like that?
No, I don't think so.
Um, I think it said
800 megahertz.
It said 800 megahertz
public service band.
That's what he said
it said, anyway.
Yeah.
Uh, and this guy
is saying it's a warning.
That was a warning,
not a tease.
Your friend purchased
an expensive scanner.
Many inexpensive scanners
do not include
900 megahertz.
Cellular was never
allocated as part of
the public service band.
Public service refers
to services that
protect the public,
police and fire.
For example,
you may have seen
that New York City
fire department trucks
now have MDT,
mobile data terminals.
They operate on the
900 megahertz band.
Uh, radio traffic
on the fire department
of New York airwaves
has been cut drastically
now that the trucks
identify their status
silently via MDT.
The salesman should
have told him
it didn't cover that band
or perhaps he,
the salesman,
didn't know the
difference himself.
Well, first of all,
I don't believe it said
warning on it.
I don't believe that,
uh, that word was uttered.
Therefore, it can be
looked upon as a feature.
It doesn't say warning.
It's a feature.
It receives these
particular frequencies.
And since receiving
800 megahertz has become
an unobtainable feature,
seeing something that
says receives 800
megahertz public service
band on a scanner would
tell me that, hey,
maybe this thing gets
800 megahertz.
Seems to me like, uh,
I stand by that.
It seems deceptive.
Number three, since when
is it illegal to listen
to cellular phone calls
with an old TV?
Well, uh, I believe
since the ECPA, right,
says that we're not
allowed to listen to
cellular calls.
It is illegal to,
I don't know the exact
phrasing, it's illegal
to intercept.
Right.
It's a ridiculous law.
That's our whole point.
And technically,
although I can't imagine
anybody busting down
your door and
arresting you for this,
but technically,
when you listen to
someone's phone call
over the airwaves
on a cellular phone,
and now on a cordless
phone as well,
it is illegal.
It's ridiculous.
That's the whole point.
According to this
letter, the only thing
you cannot do is
purchase a new radio
which covers that
ban from a dealer
in the U.S.,
or a radio which can
be modified easily.
It is also not
illegal to listen to
those frequencies
on an old radio.
You already know that,
so why say you can't
use a TV?
Well, I say it is,
according to the ECPA,
illegal to listen.
And that's why
it's so silly.
Uh, someone on your
show said they wanted
frequencies of the
police in England.
Call Scannermaster.
They publish a book
of them.
Call 800 information
for their telephone
number.
Okay.
Let's do that.
Thank you.
Nothing but phone
calls tonight.
We're up to $210.
212-279-3400.
BIRDS CHIRP
BIRDS CHIRP
BIRDS CHIRP
BIRDS CHIRP
BIRDS CHIRP
BIRDS CHIRP
BIRDS CHIRP
BIRDS CHIRP
BIRDS CHIRP
BIRDS CHIRP
BIRDS CHIRP
BIRDS CHIRP
BIRDS CHIRP
BIRDS CHIRP
BIRDS CHIRP
BIRDS CHIRP
BIRDS CHIRP
BIRDS CHIRP
BIRDS CHIRP
BIRDS CHIRP
BIRDS CHIRP
BIRDS CHIRP
BIRDS CHIRP
BIRDS CHIRP
BIRDS CHIRP
BIRDS CHIRP
BIRDS CHIRP
BIRDS CHIRP
BIRDS CHIRP
BIRDS CHIRP
I didn't do it.
Whatever you're angry about, it's not me.
Anyway, yeah, I heard a pack of radio.
It's the same form of communication which you use on your computer nets.
In fact, the word net actually comes from the ham radio term net,
which was slash is a frequency and meeting place for radio operators who have a common interest.
They're claiming the word net.
I don't know.
We can track down some linguists and see if that's really true.
Last I heard, it was short for network.
That's what I thought, too.
Maybe they claim that one as well.
It may very well be so.
I don't know.
The reason I'm mentioning this is a few years ago, we, ham ops that is,
lost frequencies to United Parcel Service so that they, UPS,
could have a two-way radio system probably packed at their trunk,
which is a form of packet radio.
Isn't that ironic?
Talk about that.
Ask your callers to talk about that.
Callers, talk about that.
Let's talk about this.
This could be why they're so angry, because of UPS.
And I'll bet they never ship anything for UPS.
Let's try buying some ham radio equipment and see if it comes UPS.
It probably won't.
I would bet.
Finally, enjoy a beautiful day in nearby Newington, Connecticut this summer,
and visit the ARRL, the American Radio Relay League,
our nation's ham radio slash amateur radio organizations, headquarters, and museum.
It's just outside of Hartford.
It's fun, interesting, and a nice day out of New York.
You might even learn something.
How about paying homage to us hams, pal?
We were into two-way communications before you were into Similac.
Well, I think we should pay him some homage, don't you?
Yeah.
Yes.
You'll be receiving your homage real quickly now.
Okay.
We have, here's something you might be interested in, Fiber.
This is a fax somebody sent us from Bell Atlantic.
We've got all kinds of mail this week.
It's really good.
If you want to send us mail, our mailing address is off the hook,
care of WBAI, 505 8th Avenue, New York, New York, 10018.
And, uh, address that to my attention, Emmanuel Goldstein,
and if we have time, we'll read it over the air.
We're up to $310, by the way.
See if we can break $500 anytime soon.
212-279-3400.
We have lots of good things.
Even things that have nothing to do with this show you can get.
You can ask our volunteers to, uh, to help you as far as that goes.
Okay, here's something about Bell Atlantic.
Uh, important notice about a new Bell Atlantic service.
On July 1st, 1995, Bell Atlantic will introduce a new automated customer name and address service.
This dial-in service will provide the capability of matching published telephone numbers
with their corresponding names and addresses as they appear in the telephone directory.
If you do not want your information included in this service,
you may call 1-800-282-6002, Operator 8020,
until June 30, 1995,
and request that your information be excluded from this service.
After that date, please contact our business office.
The number is listed in the Customer Guide section of your local Bell Atlantic directory.
What do you think they're doing?
Sounds like a CNA for the masses.
Yeah, CNA for the masses.
Can the masses handle something like this?
I don't know, all that power.
Ooh, that's, uh, what do you think they're going to be charging for this?
I'd hate to imagine.
I doubt we can call that 800 number, but let's, uh, let's try it anyway,
because it's in New Jersey.
And it's probably just for Bell Atlantic people.
Bet we'll get a recording.
We're calling Bell Atlantic.
The area code you are calling from is outside the Bell Atlantic region.
Bell Atlantic caller ID is only available to Bell Atlantic customers in Maryland,
Virginia, Washington, D.C., West Virginia, Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.
If you are calling about caller ID for a telephone number in one of these areas,
please call 1-800-882-4300 for assistance.
If you are interested in other services, please contact your local telephone company.
Thank you for calling Bell Atlantic.
Interesting.
Shall we, uh, call that number?
Sure.
Okay, let's give it a try.
I'm not hearing anything, are you?
Nothing.
What do you suppose happened to our call?
Wow, let's, uh, let's try connecting again.
Maybe there was a routing problem.
Thank you for calling Bell Atlantic.
This is Tasha Barker.
How may I help you?
Uh, yes, hi.
I was interested in a new service that I heard was going to be offered, uh,
from Bell Atlantic, the, uh, automated customer name and address service.
That's correct, sir.
Uh, can you tell me something about that?
How's that going to work?
Sure.
What that does is you would be able to dial into this new directory service.
You would then dial a telephone number,
and the service will give you the name and address corresponding to that telephone number you dialed in.
I see.
And, uh, how many names and addresses can I get?
Three.
Three per call?
Yes, sir, and it is 50 cents per call.
50 cents per call.
So that's cheaper than information.
Because I can get three numbers that way, right?
Yes, sir.
Okay.
Do you know what the number will be?
No, sir, you have to call your local business office for that.
Is it going to be different for every part of, uh, the state?
The number, yes, sir.
Oh, it will be.
Okay.
Well, right, correct.
It won't be, like, 411 or something.
It would be, I don't know what your local business office is, sir,
and you would have to contact them to find out the number to dial into.
I see.
And this is just for Bell Atlantic right now?
Right, sir.
Okay.
All right, thanks for your help.
Thank you for calling Bell Atlantic.
Have a good day.
You too.
Yes, it's nice that they're, they're that late.
I don't think we can get anybody from 9X to, to sound so cheery.
No, not only would they not be there, but you'd get hung up on.
That's right, and they'd be, they'd have an attitude, a surly and crabby.
Maybe 9X people are all into packet radio.
What do you think?
It's quite possible.
Maybe that's how they got their start.
Um, okay.
We have one call on the line.
You know, that's nice.
One call is all fine and good.
I'm not, I'm not saying one call is bad.
But, we've only reached $310, and we've been on the air now for 40 minutes.
We only have 20 minutes left.
We need to make that number go up quite a bit, because this is the last show we're going to be on, uh, asking for money.
And I hope it's not going to be the last show we're going to be on, period, when they, when they see those numbers, when they come in in the morning.
You know, I'll get a phone call from, uh, the people upstairs, and they'll be upset, and want to know, uh, where all my listeners are.
Where are all the listeners?
There wasn't some big hacker field trip now, was there?
No, they're all in town someplace.
If you listen to this show, if you're on Long Island, in New Jersey, Connecticut, New York, and you hear this show, and you get something out of it, or if you've ever gotten something out of it, maybe you're not getting anything out of it tonight, because this is the show where we beg for money, and it's a real pain to listen to.
I know.
I'm listening, too.
I hear it.
But, uh, if you get anything out of it at any point in time, then you probably want to keep it going, right?
You probably want to support the show.
212-279-3400.
Hey, if you want to know why you have to support a place like this.
All you have to do is turn on the radio and turn to another station.
Hear how they handle things.
Hear how they handle opposing views.
See if they read listener mail on the air.
See if they talk about controversial things involving big corporations and big companies.
See if they care at all about anything except profits.
It's very, very important.
212-279-3400.
Give us a call.
Non-commercial radio.
We're here for you.
I was tuning in the shine of the light, and I dialed doing anything my radio advised.
With every one of those late-night stations playing songs, bringing tears to my eyes.
I was seriously thinking about hiding the receiver when the switch broke because it's old.
They're saying things that I can hardly believe.
They really think we're getting out of control.
Radio is the sound salvation.
Radio is cleaning up the nation.
They say you better listen to the vice of reason.
But they don't give you any choice because they think that it's true.
So you had better do as you were told.
You better listen to the radio.
I want to fight the hand that feeds me.
I want to fight that hand so badly.
I want to make them wish they'd never see me.
Some of my friends sit around every evening and they worry about the times ahead.
But everybody else is overwhelmed by indifference and the promise of an early bed.
You either shut up or get cut out.
They don't want to hear about it.
It's only inches on the reel to reel.
And the radio is in the hands of such a lot of fools trying to anesthetize the way that you can feel.
Radio is the sound salvation.
Radio is cleaning up the nation.
They say you better listen to the vice of reason.
But they don't give you any choice because they think that it's Jesus.
So you had better do as you were told.
You better listen to the riddle.
You better listen to the riddle.
What a fall, riddle.
Marvelous riddle.
What a fall, riddle.
Oh, oh, oh, oh.
Oh, oh, oh.
Oh, oh, oh.
Oh, oh.
Oh, oh, oh.
Yeah, thank you.
Elvis Costello there, Radio Radio.
And he brought in more calls than I did.
212-279-3400.
Thanks to all those people on the line.
We have some good news, some great news,
some wonderful news that I think everybody will be happy to hear about.
And that's that we're actually going to be on for longer
than I thought we were going to be on for.
Not going to be on only until 11.
We're going to be on for another hour until 11.45.
So we can definitely take some phone calls.
And I don't know, I guess we can do that right now.
11.45 is our cutoff.
So give us a call at 212-279-3407 if you want to be on the radio
and ask various questions and say various things.
That's just fine.
We have some more stories to tell you about as well.
And we have other little tidbits to continue with as well.
But please, let's not slack off.
We're on for another hour because they believe we can actually raise more money
and get people to call in.
So don't prove us wrong.
Don't prove them wrong.
212-279-3400 is the...
I mean, the call-in line just lit up and it's all solid lit now.
I mean, every line is taken.
So you can't even get through on those lines.
However, the pledge lines, they're open.
There's one call on the pledge lines.
And I have a feeling that's a personal call, but I'm not sure about that.
But 212-279-3400, if you appreciate the radio station
and if you agree with the sentiments of Elvis Costello, as he just put them in Radio Radio,
then it's really up to us and nobody else to keep this place going.
212-279-3400, give us a call.
Keep the station going.
Keep the station strong.
Cast a vote against censorship, against the people of D.C. that would have us off the air,
that would cut our federal funding, that don't want to hear opposing points of view.
You know, we may not agree with everything that we air, but we do give everything a voice.
212-279-3400.
Let's prove that.
Let's go to the phones and hear what kinds of voices are out there right now.
But again, let's see those phone lines light up.
212-279-3400.
Let's see who's out there.
Good evening.
You're on.
Hi, Manuel.
I think I'm the guy that faxed you that thing on Bell Atlantic.
You think?
You don't remember?
Well, I know that I faxed you it.
Well, then you were the person.
Then I was the person.
Oh, if you only got one, then I'm the guy.
We only got one of those.
And yes, I want to thank you for sending that in.
That's very handy information to have.
Yeah, I wanted to tell you one more thing.
Ironically, it's in the front of the phone book.
Okay.
Under where it talks about annoyance calls.
It says,
One thing to be very careful of and to tell your children that if someone calls up that you don't know,
to never give out your name or address.
Well, now that's interesting because now they're providing that information for someone
and they won't even have to call to get it.
Well, it's probably because if you give it to them, they can't make 50 cents.
That's true, too.
That's something.
You know what?
Why don't you fax over that as well?
Okay, sure.
Let me give you the 2600 fax machine.
That way it can be ensured it'll get into my hands.
Oh, I thought I did send it to that.
Well, I got it here at BAI, so you must have sent it to the radio station.
Oh, no, no, no.
I sent it to the 2600, so maybe there is somebody else.
Well, there must be because I didn't see that when I saw this one.
Banner on the fax?
Well, I'll tell you what.
Why don't you fax me both and I'll give you the fax number.
Well, you have the fax number already.
I have the 2600 fax number.
Okay, fax them both over there and we can have a look at them.
Very good.
All right, thanks a lot.
Okay, bye-bye.
That's something.
Our fax machine, by the way, is 516-474-2677.
If you have any interesting information to fax over to us.
Good evening.
You're on?
Hi.
I'm surprised that it took you guys with your ISDN thing that it took you so long.
My dad ordered a T1 line.
It took them about two days.
And then when he ordered ISDN about a week later, it only took him about four days to install it.
Farber, do you have any comments as to why that might be?
Yeah, were you in Manhattan by any chance?
I think it's Bell Atlantic.
It's Brink County, New Jersey.
Oh, well, Bell Atlantic is a whole different story.
We're talking about 9X.
Yeah, 9X is different.
The service is different.
Yeah, 9X is the, I guess, the culturally disadvantaged brother of Bell Atlantic.
That's a nice way of saying it.
Okay.
All right?
It's just a surprise that it took you guys so long.
Yeah.
Well, it didn't take us long.
It took 9X a long time to fulfill their obligations.
Yeah.
All right?
Yeah.
Okay.
I wish we had a choice.
You know, I wish we could say, hey, Bell Atlantic or 9X.
You know, it might drive the prices down.
Although, supposedly, Bell Atlantic has that five cent a minute surcharge.
9X only has the one cent a minute surcharge.
Has that been verified?
Oh, yeah.
It is a nickel a minute in Bell Atlantic.
That's insane.
Penny a minute in 9X.
That's crazy.
They're both crazy.
There shouldn't be a surcharge for making a data call in the first place.
But apparently they're getting away with it.
Good evening.
You're on.
Hi.
How you doing?
You're going to have to turn on your radio.
You'll get awfully confused.
That's distracting.
I wanted to find out if you used to do a show on WUSB 90.1.
Yes, I did, in fact.
I've done quite a few.
And did you do the Psychic TV show?
Do I do a Psychic TV show?
Is that the name of your show?
No.
No, I don't do any Psychic TV.
I never did.
Never have.
And as far as I know, I never will.
What was the name of your show on WUSB?
I had a few of them.
Let's see.
Brain Damage was one.
There was one called The Ministry of Truth.
There was one called The Voice of Long Island.
There was one called Long Island Bandstand.
I mean, it just goes on forever and ever.
This is the first time I've listened to your show on this radio station.
And they have all these old tapes of USB.
Oh, really?
And your voice is really distinctive.
And I just turned on the radio by accident.
I was like, wow, that sounds like that guy from USB.
Well, you know, USB people wind up in the weirdest places, you know?
Yeah, I used to live on Long Island and now I'm in Manhattan.
And it's really strange.
You just turn on the radio station and, like, four years later, be listening to the same DJ.
Well, you know, WUSB will be moving that transmitter in either late July or early August.
And that's something that you might be able to get them in Manhattan when they do that.
Oh, wow. Great.
So, yeah, keep your ears open for that one.
Okay, so you're still doing shows on there or no?
I'm not doing a show there, but I hang out there occasionally because their offices are air conditioned.
That's cool.
Yeah.
Well, I hope you keep playing the same music.
Okay. I'll try.
Thanks for calling.
Okay, thanks.
Nice to hear people from the past.
Okay.
Wait a minute.
According to a note I just got handed, Master Chemist and the Joker are working on this super red box using the MC145412P.
Is that a DJ or a chip or what?
It's a Motorola Pulse Tone Repertory Dialer.
Okay.
How's that?
You say this will be completed.
That's right out of the Motorola catalog.
This will be completed within an hour.
Hopefully, yeah.
Okay, good.
Well, we'll be checking in.
It better be finished before 1145.
That's all I have to say.
212-279-3400.
We have no calls on the line.
We are up to 735.
That's not bad, is it?
No, it could be better.
Maybe, you know, I could...
Step up to the mic here.
I'm kind of a Tally Ogre and I think I'm turning into a real monster tonight.
I see that you have, you know, I listen to your show.
I'm a fan.
I don't learn much.
You don't learn much?
I don't know how to put the quarter in and switch it for the nickel and get the phone call through.
I don't know nothing.
But, hey, you know, who cares?
You've come to the right place if you know nothing.
So, and I suspect that there are a lot of people out there who learned to be connected through you.
And I see you have two great premiums, which I don't understand.
And I'm sure some folks would like those nice T-shirts with a printed circuit board on it that is supposed to be some kind of box that I've been trying to find out if it still works or can be workable.
Well, it still works.
And I think, you know, some folks may want one of those T-shirts because I know someone just called up and they want to know what size they come in.
They come in medium, large, and extra large.
That's nice.
Some people wear the extra larges.
Even people who are small wear the extra larges because it's, like, fashionable or something.
Good.
So, and how much does that T-shirt cost, sir?
We sell them for $15 usually.
But, no, no, no.
But this is a special occasion.
This is a special occasion.
You see, the thing people have to remember is that this isn't an auction.
This isn't something where you're going out and finding the best prices on products.
You're making a donation.
You're helping a radio station.
You're investing in what we do here.
And we have to reach a certain figure to get to the point where we can continue to bring you what we bring you.
Right.
So that's what people have to remember is that this isn't a shopping spree.
This isn't a home shopping club or anything like that.
This is WBAI.
And we're not in the business of providing products for people.
We're in the business of providing radio.
And the only way we can continue to do that is not to seek funds from Exxon and from 9X and places like that,
to seek funds from you, individual people.
Can you imagine if 9X was funding your show?
Oh, boy.
Oh, boy.
It's the off-the-hook man.
Well, you know, in a way they do because we go through their phone lines.
And there's nothing they can do about that.
But we pay them thousands and thousands of dollars.
Oh, boy.
The most expensive thing that we pay for is 9X.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So we keep 9X afloat.
You know what's interesting about phones, though?
You have non-profit corporations, of which BAI is definitely one.
Non-profit organizations do not get any kind of discount whatsoever from 9X.
They have to pay full business rates, which is more than residential rates.
Non-profit organizations, no matter what they are, have absolutely nothing, no advantage.
And, you know, you get your tax-free.
You know, you don't have to pay taxes.
The federal government gives you a break in some cases.
Because having non-profit status is supposed to be good, but with the phone companies, they don't care.
You're a business.
And we have specialized lines in order to get the signal out to you.
And, you know, these lines are expensive.
Not only do they connect from 505 8th Avenue, but they connect to the Empire State Building.
Got to get over there somehow.
And get to the Empire State Building.
You have to rent a room in the Empire State Building.
It's small in the closet.
That's right.
And that rent is exceedingly expensive.
Absolutely true.
And in order to get out to you, we've just recently put up a new antenna.
And that's also exceedingly expensive.
Well over a million and a half dollars.
Putting up that new antenna has done wonders for our signal.
There was only one radio station in New York that did not go in on that deal.
of raising the master antenna in the Empire State Building.
And that one radio station, which is, I guess you'd call them the Pure Rock Station.
Well, their signal ain't so pure in Suffolk County, I can tell you that.
Because raising it, however many feet we raised it, really made the signal go further.
We couldn't have done that without the help from our listeners.
We wouldn't have been able to afford it.
And that's why we need your help.
Yeah, and with all the good information that's coming across, and with all the room, I've
never seen so many guests in this place.
Oh, yeah.
Okay, you guys must have at least one friend, or one mother, or one parent out there.
Or one credit card out here.
Yeah, one credit card out here.
Yeah, and I hear you guys can make a credit card go a long way.
Not a credit card number, a credit card.
I mean, a real credit card here.
Yeah, you know, and you can take your time to pay your pledge, okay?
That's right.
You're going to have to pay it all at once.
And I know you guys are good at saving nickels and dimes, unlike folks like me who have to
pay for...
212-279-3400 is the number to call.
And guys, with the extra hours, show that this show is important out there.
You know, we're not too proud to beg around here.
We'll take $10, $25, $50, or whatever you can afford.
And I see you also have a $75 and $100 packet.
So maybe you can just take a little time, guys, and tell folks, all of you in the studio,
why they should support this registration.
I have a room full of volunteers who are ready to take your pledge.
And they sent me in here to tell you guys that you will take more calls, but you need some
people to pay...
Not pay, just pledge some money to this rager station.
$10 is the minimum for us to take your pledge.
Less than $10, we'll give you a phone number to send it into.
But if you pledge $10 or more, it's going to get credited to this program.
And the boss man, the program director, didn't leave me feeling too good tonight.
It cost me $12,000 beyond the goal.
And we all have to go on another day.
So every little bit counts at this time.
So guys, please, could we get that tally up to $1,500 before you all go back to taking
more calls and answering more questions?
Thank you.
Dave Burstein from Personal Computer Show.
I thought I'd come in because I don't know if you all appreciate just what this t-shirt
is.
This is a t-shirt guaranteed to establish who you are, where and when you walk.
In fact, the favorite time was when I walked into the 9X building for a fancy press conference
with it.
Wow.
You have more guts than I do.
And they were all very polite about it.
I'm sure they were.
But it's not one of these things with nice, you know, nice diagrams and pretty pictures
on it.
On the front of this t-shirt is a diagram of how to build something that's very useful
in the phone system.
On the back of it is the headlines from all the ridiculous stories we've been hearing
in the press about hackers.
So you walk in with this, and anybody who recognizes that diagram, well, they might be on your side,
but you want to be really sure where you're at.
And on the back of it, it very definitely puts you as one of these maybe dangerous hackers.
But it gives you an ability, short of growing two feet of hair and putting on a nerd pack,
to walk into any room, technical, anywhere, and establish very clearly who you are.
It has a most wonderful impact if you use it discreetly and in the right times and places.
I wear it a few times a year because I don't want it to wear out.
In fact, maybe I'm going to try to get myself another one.
But this is a very special premium.
It has a great spirit of freedom and independence.
And the T-shirt, why it may not have much monetary value, is really a wonderful thing to have.
212-279-3400.
Get that T-shirt.
That's right.
And you know, it's interesting.
212-279-3400.
The T-shirt on the front has a picture of the schematics for how to build a blue box.
And on the back are articles about what happened to people who used those schematics and things like that.
So it's sort of like a transitional tale.
No, it comes with its own warning, folks.
So you know what you're getting into.
That's right.
And they fit rather well, too.
They're good quality, the T-shirt.
That's right.
I've seen them around here.
And they hold up.
Now there's a friendly sound here.
This is the sound of a red box.
Have you heard this before?
We're going to try and teach our Tali ogre here how to distinguish between the sounds.
Now this, you've heard that sound, right?
Does it sound familiar to you?
Yeah, it sounds like my alarm clock.
Sounds like your alarm clock is a red box, huh?
Actually, that does sound like an alarm clock.
But no, this is the sound that a quarter makes when it drops into a payphone.
See?
And do you know that just by playing those tones into a payphone, lots of payphones will
be fooled into thinking you actually put a quarter in.
That's how stupid the system is.
No, no, no.
In my neighborhood, that is very useful.
Because here you are, you run up to a payphone, and it's urgent.
Your wife is looking for you.
Your girlfriend is after you.
You need a good excuse for the boss.
And you go to the payphone, and you have your quarter.
And you're begging the payphone to take your quarter, and it doesn't take your quarter.
It gives it back to you.
How about that?
And you go to the next payphone, and you put your quarter in it, and it takes your quarter.
That doesn't give it back.
And it doesn't give it back.
And you don't get a phone call.
And you don't get a phone call either.
So your day starts off in a sour note.
Yeah.
And so before you're through, you could lose all your quarters.
So maybe this would be good in some neighborhood.
We call it the equalizer.
Yes.
Lose a quarter, you gain a quarter.
But no, actually, we don't encourage people to go out and make free phone calls using these
things.
However, we do encourage people to not be afraid to hear tones.
Because what the federal government is doing is throwing people in prison for having something
that makes these tones.
As simple as that.
And that's wrong.
It's just plain wrong.
And at the end, I will tell you about that.
And you can, no, come on, folks.
212-279-3400.
We have no calls on the line.
Are you all so shocked by hearing these tones on the air that you're afraid, you're mortified
to call us and pledge your support to a station that dares to do that?
212-279-3400.
The rally did go up a little bit, folks.
Come on, now.
Let's get some calls on the phone line.
$900.
There's a whole bunch of people on the bottom line holding on to ask a question.
That's right.
Okay.
Those lines are filled up.
Now, come on, folks.
Make a pledge if you're...
Make some money on that board.
We need to make $12,000 to reach our goal.
We didn't make it today, so we're going on tonight a little bit longer.
Okay, show Emmanuel that you care about his show, that it's an important show, and that
you're listening.
So, come on.
Make a pledge.
Now, so you don't want to pledge.
You don't want to get the T-shirt.
You have another package.
I think it's, what, a $100 package?
For $100, you can get a really interesting book.
You may not agree with everything it says, and I know, Fiber, you had some questions about
that.
But it's interesting to read.
It's something that everybody should read.
It's called Masters of Deception.
It came out earlier this year.
Who knows?
They may even make a film.
Are they going to make a film about this book?
Hopefully not.
Well, they, I know they threatened to.
Thank you for that phone call.
Yes.
We turned up the microphone so you could hear all the, and every phone in there, by the
way, has a different ring.
So, every time you call, you can make a different phone ring and hear your chimes go out over
the radio waves.
And, by the way, the phone rings in your radio, but it doesn't ring where the people are answering
the phones.
And we even have people in there who can't see the phone ring.
That's right.
That's right.
That's two calls on the line.
So, folks, please just give us those calls, and please support us.
Give us whatever you can.
Make that pledge.
212-279-3400.
We dare to be different here.
So, support that difference.
Support that boldness.
Support that new frontier.
Support the fact that we're trying to recoup all the quarters we spent calling Fiber.
To continue with this, $100 pledge, you will get the copy of Masters of Deception, the hardcover
book that tells all kinds of interesting stories, and a one-year subscription to 2600 magazine,
the Hacker Quarterly, which says it from the view of the hackers.
Hackers write it.
Hackers put it out.
Hackers send it.
Hackers read it.
You may be a hacker.
We have four phone calls on the line now.
Come on, folks.
The seventh phone makes a really, really nice ring, but six other people have to call
first to get there.
212-279-3400.
All right.
We have five people there.
212-279-3400.
Please don't call just to hear the phone ring.
Please call to make a pledge.
We can't move.
We can't go on until you make some pledge, and we take credit cards, as we say.
212-279-3400.
We have people who have gotten out of their bed, have come down here tonight to answer these
telephones.
So, we woke them up.
Give them something to do.
Yeah.
212-279-3400 is the number.
212-279-3400.
Every little bit counts.
You know, we've been doing this since the, what, 60s we've been doing this?
Yep.
And the only way we've gotten this far is through listener support.
We've never taken a penny, at least not with the company's knowledge from any corporation,
to keep programming going at the station.
And we don't intend to.
We don't intend to ever have a commercial on this radio station.
212-279-3400.
However...
Make those some real phone calls.
I think there's at least one real call on there, because we can tell.
Okay.
212-279-3400.
Now, the interesting thing is, when you have commercials, you can't have what are known
as anti-commercials.
In other words, if you say, use 9X.
9X is good.
You can't have something on there that says, hey, 9X stinks.
Don't use 9X.
You can't do that.
I mean, there's no radio station that will have the guts to be able to speak out against
the company and have a program, say, that just criticizes them, because they'll be afraid
of losing the sponsorship.
And we can just say that 9X is terrible.
We can say that every other phone company, AT&T and Sprint and all these others are, you
know, basically ripping people off in different ways.
And here is how, specifically.
We can go into as much detail as we want.
We can listen to what our listeners have to say.
We can have them on the air.
We can read their letters.
You can't do that if those companies are sponsoring you.
You just can't.
That's good.
We have two calls on the line and a third one coming in.
Come on, folks.
Make those pledges.
Let that tally jump.
Okay, let it go up $500 and we can go back to this program.
So that's five if you're calling up and taking that grab bag, whatever the hell is in that
grab bag.
It looks pretty big to me.
Yep.
So come on.
You can get it for $75 pledge, and you can do it on installment.
You can take your time to pay it off.
Okay, 212-275-3400.
279-3400.
You said five.
Has that been the number you've been giving out the whole time?
No wonder we're not getting calls.
Oh, 279-3400.
I'm going to call the guy at 275-3400 and ask him if he's been getting pledged.
Yeah, and it's 212 also.
212-279-3400.
That's right.
212-279-3400.
For those of you folks who are out there in Jersey and told them, okay, 212-279-3400 is
the number to call.
Again, maybe you can tell us a little bit about what's in that grab bag.
Okay, the grab bag, which was not my idea to call it that, but the grab bag basically
is the book and the magazine subscription.
M.O.D., Masters of Deception, and a one-year subscription to 2600 Magazine.
That's for $100.
For $75, you can get the T-shirt, the 2600 T-shirt with all kinds of hacker things on it.
And it's about to be out of print, too, designing a new one for the summer.
You'll get that, and you'll get a one-year subscription to the magazine.
So now it's a collector's item, folks.
It will be.
It will be very soon.
212-279-3400.
Within a year, you'll be able to sell that thing for $100.
Go to your phone and make those calls.
212-279-3400.
At least.
Well, the tally is going up $10, so that's good.
That's good that somebody pledged $10.
212-279-3400.
If 10 people pledge $10, then that means that we raise $100.
You see, it's pretty simple.
All you can afford is $10, and you can convince a couple of your friends to call in, too.
And we're getting somewhere.
Folks, I'm going to leave it in your hands.
212-279-3400.
And you know, by the way, because tonight is fire sale night, maybe you can just go down
this list, because anything on that list you can have right now.
All right.
212-279-3400.
It's not too late.
I can have anything on this list?
Yes, anything.
Wow.
How about that?
Let's see.
We have the Dylan Unplugged CD.
That just came out, didn't it?
That's for a pledge of $75.
Okay.
I'm not sure if that's a double or what exactly, but that's something that just came out.
Spring 1995 tape of the Grateful Dead for a pledge of $65.
We have all kinds of things here.
I mean, it's just so much.
Malcolm X.
A library of four books.
Special two tapes.
VHS tapes.
How about this?
A male circumcision package.
What?
Is this real?
They're really offering this.
Get the...
Wow.
Get the Marathon Ogre back in here.
I want to ask him about that one.
The male circumcision package.
That's for $125.
I guess that's a good price.
I don't know.
I haven't priced that out.
I can't believe this.
I thought we had strange premiums.
Okay.
So, there's all kinds of things.
As you can see, if you call up 212-279-3400, you'll be able to get all kinds of neat things.
All you have to do is ask.
212-279-3400.
Let's take some more phone calls at the other line, which I'm not even going to give out anymore because it's full.
It's always full.
Everybody always knows the number, and they keep it busy all the time.
I see one person trying to call that line and confuse us by calling the last line in the hunt of the pledge lines.
But that's not going to work, you see.
Yeah, he's fading away even as I speak.
No, what you need to do is you need to go up, subtract about 6 or 7 from that number, call the pledge line, pledge something, and then I'll have great respect for you, even though I may never know who you are.
Good evening.
You're on the radio.
Hello?
Okay, let's try this then.
Good evening, you're on.
Yeah, hi.
How are you doing?
Hi.
Have you ever heard of a program I saw circulating on the net called Nautilus?
And what it does is you hook it up to your soundboard and your computer, and it's supposed to encrypt your phone conversations.
There is a program like that around.
I was going to ask for everybody, is he going to fall on the floor or he's disappeared?
I don't have the information on it.
Perhaps he does.
We'll try and track him down.
But I do know a program like that is in existence, how easy it is to use, how good it is actually.
Have you ever used it yourself?
No, I haven't, but I don't have a soundboard.
Do you know how to get the program?
Yeah, I saw it.
Actually, someone offered it in IRC, so I'm not sure of any STC.
Why don't you get a copy of the program, and maybe you could mail it to us or something, because we have a soundboard, and we can play around with it and let you know how it is.
Okay.
Or tell us where to get it, you know.
Do you have the, is there an email address there at the station?
Well, you can mail me.
It's Emanuel, E-M-M-A-N-U-E-L, at 2600.com.
You can also mail Fiber at the same place, Fiber at 2600.com.
Oh.
And if you have any, you know, anything to share with us, please send us mail there.
All right.
Okay, great.
All right.
Thanks for calling.
No, thank you.
That's some pretty good information.
I have a question for you.
This mail circumcision package, is this for real here?
Yeah, it's for real.
It's for real.
You want to explain how something like that comes about on a radio station?
I don't think I've ever heard that offered before.
No, it's never been offered before, and I don't think it's ever going to be offered again.
Well, according to the records, we've given away about 11 of these things.
There's some 11 weirdo out there.
Wow.
And I'm telling you right now, I am not one of them.
As far as I'm concerned, that package should be circumscribed.
Yeah, but you could give it as a gift, couldn't you?
Absolutely, you could.
Okay, 212-279-3400.
They even talked about in that package how to reverse the process if you were so unfortunate
as to be accidentally.
We offer that as a co-package?
Yeah, it's a good package.
Yeah.
And some people went for it, but not me.
I think it just went flat on me.
Wow.
212-279-3400.
But in all seriousness, folks, we need to raise some funds.
That's right.
We do.
Let's thank some people.
All right.
I want to thank Jack from Englewood, New Jersey.
Beautiful town, Englewood, New Jersey.
Don't make it out there nearly enough.
David from Forest Hills.
Thank you very much, David, for your generous pledge.
And wow, it really is a generous pledge.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
I want to thank Bill from Brooklyn for his pledge.
And this person does not want to be thanked, but we'll just say they're from
Mastic Beach.
How's that?
Wow.
As soon as it gets all the way out there.
Do you know how far away that is?
No.
That's very far.
I know.
That's very far.
And you know, if we hadn't moved the transmitter when we did, that would never have gotten out
that far.
I'm sure of that.
Because that's way out there in the depths of Suffolk.
So, Mastic Beach, appreciate off the hook.
We certainly do.
And here's another one from Rocky Point.
I want to thank that person from Rocky Point, who also doesn't want to be thanked out loud.
But again, thanks.
And Rocky Point is another place, another one of those fringe areas we wouldn't have reached
otherwise.
I want to thank Andrew from Red Bank, New Jersey, for his generous pledge of getting the t-shirt
in the 2600 Magazine.
And also, we want to thank, you know, did he pledge twice or something?
Because I'm seeing the exact same thing two times.
Did he want two of those?
I guess he did.
Let me see.
Let me see.
Don't panic out there in Red Bank in case you didn't.
We'll correct that ourselves.
Yeah, we'll clean it up.
No, you can call us and tell us if he pledged twice.
Yeah, if you, in fact, wanted to do that twice.
It looks like the same handwriting.
Yeah.
Someone's trying to pull a fast one in there.
No, he probably just rewrote the cards.
Probably with that one.
See, we catch the mistakes here.
We make mistakes, but we usually catch them.
So, yeah, why don't you call us and tell us if you want to do that twice or not.
Okay, this person didn't say yes or no, and I can't read the name, so I'll just say somebody
from New Brunswick, New Jersey.
Thank you very much for your pledge.
Then Robert from the Bronx thanks us again for, didn't we want a premium?
Pledged all this money and didn't want anything in return.
We want to thank you so much because this person has the right attitude.
They're pledging just because they want to support the radio station.
That's what it's all about.
That's what it's all about.
It's not really about premiums.
We do that so that, you know, that makes your life a little bit more pleasant.
You know, and also we get to know how much we mean to people that donate things to us.
And then, you know, we're happy to share a little joy, as it were, whether it be male
circumcision or 2600 magazine or what have you.
We're happy to do that.
But the real reason we're here is because we want the radio station to keep going.
That's what it's all about.
I want to thank the anonymous caller from New York.
I guess that doesn't really mean anything, but somebody from New York pledged and did
not want their name mentioned.
And, oh, wow, I know who this person is.
They wrote a little note saying that they met me at a certain event.
And, wow, I can't believe that.
That's really amazing.
Well, it was nice meeting you, too, and it's great to know that you're out there listening
and supporting this radio station.
And hopefully we'll see you again sometime.
I want to thank Sam from Staten Island.
This is a very generous pledge there.
And, oh, wow, I recognize this name.
I can't say the name because I didn't want to be mentioned, but I remember this name as
a person that used to work at this station a long time ago.
And they're way outside our listening range.
They're way outside our listening range.
I don't think they were actually listening.
So they're in Massachusetts.
I mean, we can't get to Massachusetts.
I don't think.
And also we want to thank Kathleen from New York for her very generous donation.
And it really means a lot to me to see all these people out there, know they're out there
pledging whatever it is they can afford and making our goal add up to now $955.
Oh, right.
I said I'd be happy if we reached $1,000 tonight.
And it looks like we're on our way to doing that.
See, we did it.
$1,030.
That's great.
We're on for another half hour.
So let's keep those calls coming in.
If you know anybody else that would support a program like this, let them know about the
program.
Let them know that we're asking for support tonight.
This is our last night on this radio show doing that.
It means we're about $11,000 away from our goal now.
Yeah.
We're counting down, folks.
Well, it's not my goal.
Our goal.
It's our goal.
Right.
But I can't do that on my show.
No, no.
But I'm not expected to raise $11,000.
But if you do $1,500 more, I'd be happy.
Yeah.
Okay.
And I know you have the folks out there.
I see them on the line.
That's right.
I want to make people happy.
So we need for them to call the top line and make a pledge.
And look, plastics, we get the money much more faster, and you'll get your gift much quicker.
And you can take as much time as you want to pay it.
And you can do it on the installment plan, too.
And the number is 212-279-3400.
212-279-3400.
We have one call on the line.
Folks, it's important that you show your support for the shows that you enjoy.
For a $50 pledge, you'll get our monthly programming guide.
Actually, now it comes out every other month.
But it's twice as big.
Yeah.
It gives you the lineup on the station.
The only time we change it is for emergency occasions.
And we do have emergencies around here, such as congressional hearing, such as a war.
Yeah, things like that that pop up.
You can count on us to be here for that and to cover it in a way that nobody else is going to.
Or students getting arrested or hackers are suddenly the new crackdown in hackers.
We will bring it to you.
We will interrupt the regular programming to follow that event.
And nobody else will.
That's right.
We go to cyberspace all the time.
It's really great to know that we reach so far out, though.
It's a great station to have.
We can reach the depths of Long Island, all the way through New Jersey, even into Pennsylvania.
212-279-3400.
Yeah.
I have a station way out there in Pennsylvania.
And if you're out there listening to us in Pennsylvania, give us a call.
Give us a thank you call.
Okay.
Get our programming guide.
Find out what's going on in New York.
212-279-3400.
You know, we have a caller who calls us all the time, and he lets our phone just rings
and rings and rings, and it jumps all over the place and drives our volunteer crazy.
See, we're going to have to find a way to fix him.
So if he keeps calling during the show, I'm sure we probably will come up tonight with a way to stop it.
We have about 15 hackers here, so I think maybe we can figure out a way ourselves.
212-279-3400.
So, folks.
Yeah, we'll send you a circumcision package if you're not careful.
Okay, folks.
212-279-3400.
Make those calls.
All right.
Do you have anything good to say about this radio station?
Oh, yeah.
Well, man, come on, man.
Anybody wants to say something about why people should call in.
And make a pledge.
Yeah, anybody who wants to make a pledge in this room is most welcome to.
In fact, so am I.
I'd like to say something about this radio station.
I'm sitting here wearing the official Hour of the Wolf t-shirt, in fact,
which is another great radio show on this station,
which you can hear, it turns out, Saturday mornings at 5 a.m.
or late Friday nights, if you prefer to think of it that way.
Jim Freund.
Jim Freund is one of the first people I met when I came to this radio station.
The very peripatetic and entertaining and intelligent and he's ubiquitous.
Jim Freund.
But anyway, if you read 1984, which many of us have, and in fact, one of us...
It's a book by George Orwell, which wasn't George Orwell's real name.
But interestingly enough, there's a character, Emmanuel Goldstein, in it.
But anyway.
Yeah, sure.
Okay.
Named after you, obviously.
Must have been.
But the point of the book is that news speak.
If you can't think of something, if you can't discuss it, you can't think of it.
And what this radio station does is it allows people to discuss many of the things that you
don't find on the networks, on the mainstream radio stations, and in your typical newspaper,
the Daily News, the Times, the Post.
You could call it fringe.
And many people deride fringe.
But without fringe, you just are in lockstep with everyone else.
You lead a boring existence.
And you have very few original ideas.
This station is chock full of original ideas.
Not only on this show, Off the Hook.
Not only on Hour of the Wolf, but every show, including many of the shows that you may personally
disagree with.
I know that I personally disagree with more than half of the shows on this radio station.
Yet I'm a big fan and a great supporter.
And I think just about anybody out there should be, too.
That's right.
Lead him to the pledge room.
And I will be taking more phone calls at 212-279-3400.
Again, thanks for the people that are calling in.
We're up to $1,030, and we have until 1145.
And we have another person who wants to say something?
Yeah, this is Joker.
Unfortunately, Master Chemist and I could not get the red box working.
You failed.
No, no, no.
We didn't fail.
We didn't even get started because in our haste, we had talked about doing this like
last night.
Uh-huh.
And in our haste to pack all the necessaries, we forgot the schematics.
Oh.
Which is kind of an essential thing to put it together.
You need the schematics.
So we're going to plan on it for next week.
I don't suppose a 2600 t-shirt would help you at this point with the schematics in
the front?
No, no, no.
That's for the blue box.
Why don't you build that, then?
Yeah.
Well, because 9X...
No, never mind.
All right.
It doesn't work half the time.
Okay.
Well, you know, we have these little roadblocks we meet up occasionally, but we'll get it
done at some point somehow.
Speaking of red boxes, has there been any development in the Bernie S situation?
I found out that he is, in fact, at the prison called Fairton in New Jersey near Wildwood.
I asked him about visiting policy, and they said that you would have to be approved.
It's not like the situation where he was in a regular prison, and you could just come down
on a certain day and be signed in.
You have to be on a list.
And the same thing with Kevin Mitnick in North Carolina.
So it's kind of similar to what Fiberoptic went through, where he has to submit names
and be put on a list.
It's a very lengthy process, very frustrating process.
Difference here is that these people haven't even been convicted yet.
They're just being held, waiting for a trial, and they can be held for, I believe, up to
a year in that particular condition without anything happening.
And it's a really bad situation.
But we're in the process of writing to both of them, find out what it is that they need
from us, to find out anything else as to how their conditions are.
In both cases, I don't think their conditions are very good, to be honest.
That's the bad note of all of this.
There's a downside to everything.
And you hear that here on WBAI.
If you recall, over the last year, about a year ago, we were communicating with Fiberoptic
in prison.
Now, of course, he's out.
And I'll tell you, this place really did make a difference to him, being in there, knowing
that we were out here, trying to communicate, talking about him, not forgetting about him.
And that really does make a difference.
Hopefully, most of you won't ever have to experience that.
212-279-3400.
We're going to go back to some phone calls.
So let's see who's out there on the on-air line.
But please, let's get some pledge calls coming in.
212-279-3400.
Good evening, you're on.
Okay.
Good evening, you're on.
Hi.
Oh, that sounds like a familiar voice.
Oh, well, I'm glad I got out of that way.
It is a familiar voice.
I just wanted to mention that before I pitch for you, I'm going to pitch some pledges again
for you.
You're going to pitch and pledge.
Do both.
Okay.
First, I want to say that when you make a call, instead of paying for the call, like,
let's say I made a long distance call or a local call, and let's say you're not there
or somebody else picks up or, you know, you make an under-admitted call, you can just call
and get credit for that call.
Uh, you can call and get credit for that call, yes.
Right.
And also, when your phone's disconnected, you could dial zero, your area code, plus 555-1212,
and get information that way by pressing zero, and then get connected to a call that way
if the number is listed that you want to call.
Wait, say that again a little slower.
When your phone's disconnected.
When your phone is disconnected, you can dial zero.
Plus your area code.
Plus your what?
Area code.
Plus your area code.
And then 555-1212.
And then you get the billing tone.
Okay, you get the little bong thing.
And then you dial zero.
You dial zero.
And they can immediately connect you with an information operator.
They connect you to information when you do that?
Right.
If you could do it now, even when your phone's not disconnected, try that.
Maybe I will.
Yeah, and then you could just say, ask for a number, and then get connected that way.
That's interesting.
Well, I suggest people try that, but be careful.
Make sure you're not billed for it.
Uh, when your phone's disconnected, how are you going to be billed for it?
I don't know.
9X will probably figure out a way to do that.
Um, also, when your phone's disconnected, you could do that and get connected to the call
that way.
Yes, I suppose.
I think the trick is not to have your phone get disconnected, because that can be a real pain.
Well, no, no, no, I'm saying, you know when your phone's disconnected, because you don't
pay your bill, you can only, you're restricted to, um, certain numbers, like incoming phone
calls and, like, 890 numbers.
Right, right, things like that.
You could bypass that by dialing information and getting connected with something through
information.
And then they ask you if you want to be connected to that number.
Right.
For an additional charge, which, if your phone's disconnected, it's kind of weird.
Well, I'd like to see that actually, uh, tested.
Try it, try it now.
Dial zero.
Well, we don't have any disconnected phone lines, so it's...
No, you can do it now.
I can do what now?
Dial zero, two, one, two, five, five, five, one, two, one, two, and then dial zero when
it, uh, gives you the tone.
Why don't you try it?
I don't have three, right?
Well, you see, I don't have access to lines because everybody calling in on the other lines
are, are filling...
The only lines I could grab would be pledge lines, but that would confuse the people
that, uh, that are taking pledges.
And it might cause mayhem of, of a type we've never seen before.
But, you know what?
I'll, I'll try this next week.
How about that?
I'll, I'll try calling...
You'll have to remind me, or somebody will have to remind me.
I'll try calling zero plus my own area code plus five, five, five, one, two, one, two.
Hit a zero so you forget an information operator.
That, uh, that could be useful for those cases where you blocked out.
Thanks for the call.
Thanks for the tip.
And, uh, Master Chemist has something to say for us.
Yes, good evening.
Um, I just think it's necessary at this point to mention that I think what separates hackers
from, or people that are intelligent and thinking from the rest of society is that they are doing
actually that, they're thinking.
And I think WBAI, especially this show, helps people go in that direction of self-motivation
and self-thought.
I think a lot of times when we have callers, there are people that are actively engaged in
the thinking process, which for me is a very important issue.
And we generally just send them in the right direction to think.
That's right.
And I think that's just a big issue.
Okay.
Well said.
212-279-3400.
We want to see a couple of calls start coming in there.
The switchboard's totally wide open right now.
We're only on for about another 17 minutes or so.
212-279-3400.
Let's bring the total up a little bit more.
We're going to take a very brief musical break.
But you know, this is an interesting musical break here because just to show you what this
station means, you know that back 15 years ago in 1980, a band called The Clash put out
a record and one of the first parts of a particular song is an excerpt from WBAI Radio.
Isn't that something?
BAI is known worldwide.
You tell people that you're with BAI and you're in another country.
They know immediately what it is.
And there's a reason for that.
And the reason is not just us.
The reason is you as well because you're as much a part of this place as we are.
So take a listen to this track.
We'll be back in a couple of minutes.
Let's get some phone calls while this music is playing and then I'll sound much happier
when I get back.
Okay.
We're back again.
Of course, you're listening to WBAI in New York and this program is Labrish.
My name is Hapte Selassie and we're speaking with Baba, or maybe Ras Baba.
Can I give a message?
Hello?
Go ahead, man.
Yeah, I'd just like to say, let's have some music now, huh?
Okay, okay.
Thank you.
You're right.
You're right.
You're right.
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
2-7-9-3-400 is our phone number.
And we have a couple of stories to update people on.
We'll take a couple of phone calls too, I guess.
Those lines are pretty packed down there.
People want to get on the air.
We only have about 12 minutes left.
We only have about 12 minutes left, so let's get a flurry of phone calls so that we can be back again next week and not have to worry about any of this.
You know, this is our time of tribulation, you know, this is our time of tribulation, you know, this is our time of tribulation where we need help, you know, we're lying in the gutter, please pass us whatever you can afford.
212-2-4-4-2-1-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-1-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-1-2-2-2-2-2-3-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-3-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-3-2-3-2-2-2-2-3-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-3-2-2-2-1-2-2-2-2-2-
That's just the way it is.
Let's read an interesting story that was in the New York Daily News yesterday.
This is something that I think deserves some discussion.
It's called,
Whiz Kid Hacks Evil Out of Cyberspace.
That in itself.
You don't even have to attach a story to that.
You just put that in the paper and you know already.
It's going to be a stupid story.
Let's just not even read it.
But we're going to do it anyway.
After all the tales of misdeeds and law-breaking,
Cyberspace has finally presented us with a hero computer hacker.
That's right.
That's right, Fiber.
Sorry, you missed the boat.
You got a real hero here.
His name is Jason Miller.
He's 14 years old.
And he was one citizen who did not need the bombing in Oklahoma
to tell him that white supremacist groups were an evil to be challenged.
The attack was still months away
when Jason brought his considerable hacking skills to bear
against the movement that the whole country now recognizes
as a danger.
I was astonished that I could do something so good for the world
and at the same time have fun.
Jason reports that he first worked on a computer at age two.
Yes, I guess he did some programming or something.
He was three when he wrote his first program, I see.
A nifty little number that politely asked your name
and then crashed the computer if your response was not familiar.
Well, that's just great.
I understand some corporations use the same technique.
You know, that would just crash all the time.
It was sort of like a virus for people who didn't believe there was a virus there.
Yes.
Through nursery school and beyond, Jason kept hacking.
He found early cyberspace an easygoing, democratic place.
It was sort of laid back, Jason says.
Nobody thought they were better than anybody else.
I don't know what cyberspace he was in.
Then in the late 1980s, a malevolent spirit began to intrude.
Hate groups started opening bulletin boards
that drew people who thought they were better than everybody else.
A friend gave Jason the telephone number
to the Aryan Wright Group bulletin board
said to be controlled by a white supremacist outfit in Idaho.
He fed the digits into his modem
and his monitor signaled that he had been connected.
He told the appropriate lies as the hate computer...
Hate computer.
I'm sorry.
I've just never seen that phrase before.
The hate computer asked his name, age, telephone number, and, of course, race.
What am I supposed to say?
I'm a little half-Jewish kid, Jason says.
The computer then instructed Jason to disconnect
so it could call him back and verify his telephone number.
He stayed on the line and did some quick hacking
that fooled the computer into thinking he had complied.
The magic word flashed on the screen,
verified.
I think he used the same trick that the Masters of Deception used.
Yeah, basically, you wait for the...
It thinks it disconnected you.
You stay on the line.
Then you give it the sound of a dial tone as it dials out
and then you disconnect again.
It thinks it's called you, but actually you've just stayed on the line.
Old news.
With that, Jason was given entry.
He hopped around the directory
and discovered a vast repository of racism,
anti-Semitism, and anti-government paranoia.
We're talking thousands of files.
There was at least a gig, Jason says.
A gig being 1,024 megabytes.
Or, in layman's terms, a whole lot.
Jason noticed several files on explosives.
One dealt with fertilizer bombs.
I didn't think anyone was crazy enough to use them, Jason says.
Obviously.
I was wrong.
Another file described various ways
to terrorize people of other persuasions
without actually breaking the law.
Jason here reached a decision.
As soon as I saw that,
I knew the board had to go, Jason remembers.
Jason had, over the years,
identified back doors to various software,
happily including the particular one
employed by the hate group.
A little more hacking,
and he was inside the program.
In a simple maneuver,
he prefers to keep confidential.
Jason tricked the computer
into erasing itself.
The plans for fertilizer bombs,
the tips for terrorizing the innocent,
the whole gig of evil
was zapped into nothingness.
Quite fun, Jason says.
Jason's screen went blank
along with the bulletin board,
and he quickly hung up,
so his call could not be traced.
He tried the number the following day,
and the cleanse computer failed to answer.
That was, like, cool, Jason says.
By Jason's reckoning,
the hate group would have to start over
more than from scratch.
How do you start over more than from scratch?
Well, anyway,
hours and hours and hours
would be needed to reprogram the computer,
and the Aryans would have no way
of being certain that someone
was not going to make it all disappear again.
As the cliche goes,
hate has to be taught or programmed,
Jason says.
In the weeks ahead,
Jason concentrated on developing
his computer business,
JM Industries, U.S.
He spent his non-cyber time
playing guitar with a retro punk band.
He dated a Brooklyn pianist
named Rosalia.
Then the bomb went off,
and the arrest of Timothy McVeigh
awakened us to the danger
of the extreme right.
Young Jason Miller stood as one
who had done his bit
against the evil months before.
He now issues a caution.
The hate is still out there,
Jason says.
Prepare for the worst,
but hope for the best.
That's the story written by Michael Daly
in yesterday's Daily News.
You know, I think,
I hope,
you know,
I don't think they used his,
they used a fake name
because here's a picture of him.
They basically targeted this poor kid
as the biggest enemy of hate groups,
and boy,
I just hope he knows what he's doing.
Of course,
nobody really
is shedding any tears
for these hate groups,
but I don't know if it's right
to go around calling someone
a hacker hero
because they know
how to destroy things
and encouraging people
to do that kind of thing.
I don't know.
It just,
it's,
what do you think,
Parker?
What is Parker?
I don't know necessarily
that they're a hacker hero
for memorizing
a couple of back doors
in any BBS program.
Well, that doesn't necessarily
make them a hacker,
but is it,
is it,
is it right to just
do those kinds of things?
You know,
is it ever?
I guess in this day and age
we need a little
visual anti-ism.
You think so?
No, not really.
No, I don't know.
I was,
you know,
I was sticking up for chasing.
Well,
this is,
this is,
what kind of message
is this sent?
I mean,
every time you,
you feel someone is a threat
or somebody you violently
disagree with,
it's,
it's okay to just
destroy things.
You know,
it's,
I don't know,
it's something that
can be kind of,
kind of troubling.
Go ahead.
I think it's really sad
that it's okay for him
to go and destroy things
just because it's against
a particular
or certain group.
That,
to me,
actually makes no sense.
Well,
you know,
it's interesting.
Fiber Optic went to prison
and he didn't destroy anything.
Didn't vandalize a thing.
This guy destroyed something,
admittedly,
gets this picture in the papers,
held as a hero.
What kind of message
does that send?
Let's face it,
it's a bad time
to be an arrogant.
Well,
yeah,
I guess,
I guess so.
But what if you have,
let's say,
the Lubavitchers
have got a bulletin board
and suppose you're,
you're a Christian,
a nice,
peaceful Christian
who happens to believe
that back in,
in,
in 33 AD,
the Jews killed God.
Okay?
Even,
even the Pope
doesn't believe this anymore,
but there's still some people
who do.
And now,
here,
here is this group of Jews
who killed God
and they're going out
proselytizing on the board.
Okay?
You disagree with them.
By what the Daily News
has said in this article,
there is no difference
morally
in you taking down
the Lubavitcher board
as in this kid
taking down
the Aryan Nations board.
I think it's highly ironic
that the Daily News,
a newspaper,
an organization
that depends on
freedom of the press,
freedom of speech,
is,
advocating this kid
as a hero
for destroying
freedom of speech.
Wait,
hold on a sec.
What does it say
anywhere that Daily News
depends on freedom
of press or speech
or any other stuff?
All right,
all right,
all right.
They want to sell
newspapers.
That's it.
They're a business.
It's highly ironic
that this country,
which unlike,
you know,
all of Europe
with repressive
secret police
and all that
through the ages,
that believe that
thought crimes
are not crimes,
you don't get in trouble
until you actually
do something.
I mean,
this is all changing
and this is a prime example.
It's not only changing
in the government,
it's changing in the attitude
of the people.
I mean,
here's a 14-year-old kid
that doesn't understand
what this country
is all about,
all right?
He puts himself up
as judge,
jury,
and executioner
of this bulletin board.
I kind of wonder
what he's going to be like
when he's 16.
You know,
I'm kind of wondering
about this.
I mean,
first of all,
first of all,
this is a kid
who probably
I don't even know
has experienced
some of this
hate himself or not.
If he has,
you know,
I'm sorry,
there's hate in the world.
Learn to deal.
But everybody's got a right
to say their piece
whether you disagree with it
or not.
If you disagree with it,
well,
change the channel.
There's so much hype
right now about
the internet,
all this bad crap
that's on the internet.
Well,
if you don't want
to look at it,
go to another channel.
Go to alt.recreation.pets.
I'd like to extend
an invitation to Jason
to come to the next
2600 meeting in New York
and I'll show him
how a fertilizer bomb works
because,
I mean,
really.
Try not to do it
inside the building.
No,
no,
definitely not.
But,
yeah,
it's,
you know,
speech is one thing,
actions are another.
The unfortunate thing
is that he took an action
against speech.
I think you should
take action against actions.
Right.
And speech
is really speech
and that's something
that we're always
trying to say here.
We're talking about
various things,
we're spreading ideas,
we're giving out
information
and that's something
that you should not
restrict,
deny,
or punish.
And I'm afraid
he's done just that
even though it's something
that I don't think
any of us would ever
agree with.
Right,
the only problem
now,
the other problem now
is after that it's done
it's,
you know,
people,
lay people who aren't
into the computer scene
and aren't hackers
are reading this
and going,
oh,
this is a great thing,
you know,
but all the hackers
are,
we're taking a pretty
good blow for this.
He's not only done
this to them
but he's thrown a label
on us
that a lot of us
have spent years
trying to have shit off.
You know,
people who don't know
about hackers
who've seen,
you know,
sneakers and war games
are thinking that
we're all just sitting
around trying to
crash systems
and everything.
You know,
he crashed a system,
in this case it was
a hate group
and a lot of people
are going to applaud that
but what would have
happened if it had been,
you know,
something else?
We don't sit around
doing that kind of thing,
most of the time
we're just sitting around
trying to get our own
computers to work.
Of course not,
now he's getting glorified
for doing something
that a lot of people
including you
and Fiber
have been spending years
trying to get people
to see that that's not
what we're about.
All right,
we're out of time
but that's a very
interesting story
and I want to thank
everybody for bringing
it to our attention
and we'll be back again
next week
talking about
all kinds of things
that have happened
this week
that haven't happened yet.
So again,
our phone number
for those of you
that have waited
to the last moment,
this is the last moment
please,
212-279-3400
call us now
take advantage
of our special
hacker deals
for $75
you can get
a one year subscription
to 2600 Magazine
The Hacker Quarterly
and a t-shirt
and that's a t-shirt
that's not going to be
around too much longer
or for $100
you can get
Masters of Deception
the hardcover book
chronicling the tale
the amazing tale
of one aspect
of The Hacker Underground
and also a one year
subscription
to 2600 Magazine.
So, please
let's see some phone calls
212-279-3400
Robert Knight is here
and he's going to be
joining us
as soon as he finishes
that slice of pizza there
What do you think?
What do you think
of all this
cyberspace business?
Interesting discussion
about destroying
the board
Yeah, you want to see
the story here?
Look at this
He looks so innocent
doesn't he
that little 14 year old kid
I'm against what he did
in principle
Yeah, yeah
It's definitely
fodder for debate
So, anyway
we're out of here
Robert Knight is
Speaking of blowing things up
Lloyd DeMar's
Psychohistory
The nation's
state of mind
and soul
since Oklahoma
Uh-huh
Well, that's something
to think about
This is Emmanuel Goldstein
That's Fiber Optics
Say goodbye, Fiber
Goodbye
Alright
We'll be back again
next week
Again, 212-279-3400
Let's get our last
flurry of calls
We'll see you next week
Good night
Thanks to everybody
who called in
Take care
Take care
Bye
Bye
Bye
Bye
Bye
Bye
Bye
Bye
Bye
Bye
Bye
Bye
Bye
Bye
Bye
Bye
Bye
Bye
Bye
Bye
Bye
Thank you.
So I ripped it off the wall
I cut myself while shaving
Now I can't make a cough
It couldn't get much worse
But if they could, they would
Bum-Dingley Bump
But I best expect the worst
I hope that's understood
Bum-Dingley Bump
Bum-Dingley Bump
Bum-Dingley Bump
Bum-Dingley Bump
Bum-Dingley Bump
Bum-Dingley Bump
W-B-A-I
99.5
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Check out the Radio Bandun conference convening now on New York Online.
Join activists and analysts from Asia, Africa, and the Americas.
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For free software and a free one-month trial subscription,
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Hello, wizard.
This is...
POISON DIRDS!
Charles Andrews, enemy agent submarine sinker,
is home watching cable television
with his pretty young wife, Emily Ann,
waiting for Mr. Woburn,
the old man they adopted from the welfare department.
You are receiving Cat Radio Cable TV.
Video for cats, audio for their keepers.
What's on next, Charles?
Hello.
Hello?
Hello.
Hello?
Hello, honeys.
I'm home.
Hello, Mr. Woburn.
Hello, Mr. Woburn.
You're just in time.
I know.
Just in time for Hello.
Hello.
Hello.
Hello.
It's the show about people answering the telephone.
Hello.
Hello.
Hello.
Hello.
Hello.
Ooh, a rerun.
I've seen this one.
Poisoned Arts with Janet Coleman,
David Dozer, Jim Freund,
Mary Millison, Steve Post,
A.J. Sloan,
Sidney Smith, and Peter Zanger
is writ by Dave Dozer,
directed by Anarchy,
radio technique by Peter Zanger.
This program is produced in the United States of America.
Well, from off the hook to something off the wall
to something off the top of our heads,
this is WBAI in New York.
My name is Robert Knight,
inviting you to stay tuned for Earthwatch.
Unfortunately.
Thanks for listening.
I don't think you are eligible to be an associate,
like,
the audio machine.
So that's true.
I'm not sure.
I don't think so.
Like,
I don't think so.
I think so.
Hey,
I think so.