And this is radio station WBAI in New York, where the time is 10 o'clock, and that means
it's time for Off the Hook.
And a very good evening to everybody.
The program is Off the Hook.
This is Emmanuel Goldstein with you tonight, as we are every Wednesday night from 10 o'clock
to 11 o'clock, talking about the latest in high technology and the fun going on in the
rest of the world.
And tonight, you know, tonight we've got a scandal, I think, that, I don't know, I think
it pretty much matches almost anything that we've done in the past.
It certainly is fun.
It's something that you can try at home.
And, you know, you won't even be breaking any laws.
But that's something that we're going to be getting into in just a little while.
And there's also an outside chance we'll be hearing from Bernie S. in prison.
I talked to him earlier this week, and to say he's doing fine would be wrong in a way, because
he's not really doing fine.
He's in prison.
He's in a federal prison now down in Fairton, New Jersey, which is over there by Wildwood.
And I found out a couple of disturbing things, the most disturbing of which is the fact that
he's being held without bail.
Seems that when they switch the charges from being held for possession of a red box to having
the necessary tools to construct a cellular phone or to clone a cellular phone, when they
switch from the local charges of red box possession to the federal charges of cellular
mischief, they decided to hold him without bail because they thought that he might be some
sort of a terrorist.
And the reason they thought that was because they found books in his room, in his possession,
that mentioned, among other things, how explosives work.
Now, this happened just after Oklahoma City, so the judge basically panicked and said, we
have to hold you without bail.
This is exactly what we were talking about in the days after Oklahoma City, this overreaction,
this way of lumping everybody together.
And it's what we have to be so careful about, especially if we're going to be talking about
broad new powers that the Clinton administration wants in order to head off such things in the
future.
A lot of innocent people are going to be affected.
In fact, just about most of the people, the vast majority of the people affected are always
innocent people.
So that's something we have to keep a very steady eye on.
And unfortunately, Bernie S. is in federal prison, no prospect of a trial in the imminent
future, and no bail set.
And it's really just, it's incredible to see this kind of a thing happen.
I don't really know how to describe it otherwise.
It's also, another really bad thing about all this, he's not allowed any visitors.
Now, you only allowed visitors in your immediate family when you have not yet been convicted.
So you actually get less visitors if you haven't been convicted of a crime than if you have
been convicted of a crime.
So he can only have people in the immediate family, and since he doesn't have any people
in his immediate family, that means there are no visitors at all.
And literally the only thing that he has sometimes is access to a phone.
Hopefully he'll be able to call us collect, and we can talk to him at the prison.
It's very difficult to get a phone, though, as those of you who listened to Fiber Optic
when he was in prison know, it's a very difficult thing.
So that's something we might be doing at some point during the hour.
And we also have a couple of stories to tell you about.
So stay tuned, it's going to be an interesting show, and we'll be taking phone calls a little
bit later on.
I'm your mom, I'm your help.
We'll be right back.
Thank you.
We guarantee they're going to be there between 12 and 3.
We guarantee it.
And I'm like, what's with the guarantees?
And well, apparently she told me they got in a lot of trouble because they weren't showing up.
So now they make a point of guaranteeing every time they're going to be somewhere.
So I said, great, okay, well, then I'll be there, too, and we'll meet up.
Well, the morning of the guaranteed appointment showed up.
Actually, I have to cut this off because I think we might have Bernie S coming in.
Anybody there?
This is Locktel.
You have a collect call from Bernie S.
To accept the call, please dial 9 now.
If you do not want to accept this call, hang up now.
Bernie S.
Go ahead.
You are now connected.
Bernie S., this is Emanuel.
Can you hear me?
Yes.
Hello there, Emanuel.
Oh, great.
This is amazing.
We finally made contact.
How about that?
I told the folks a little bit about the story, but they're all gathered around here, and we'd kind of like to hear it from yourself, as far as from the point where we saw you in prison, where the charges, the red box charges, had just been dropped.
Tell us what's happened since then.
Well, since then, as you know, the charges were dropped, and about two weeks after those charges were dropped, the federal authorities, namely the U.S. Secret Service,
told the Pennsylvania authorities that they had an interest in the case.
As a result of them searching the Pennsylvania local police and Secret Service searching my home, they found several cellular telephones and cellular programming software in my home, and they thought that was a much bigger issue.
So the federal authorities told state authorities they would like to take over the case, and they no longer have any interest in 6.5 megahertz crystal-type charges, evidently.
And they're pushing for a conviction on a brand-new law that was just passed by Congress very quietly last October 21st.
It's Title 18 of the U.S. Criminal Code, Section 1029, Subsection A6B, which I'll just paraphrase it.
It says,
Whoever, with the intent of defraud, manufactures, controls, possesses hardware or software for the modification or programming of telecommunications equipment for the unauthorized access to telecommunications services is guilty of this particular statute.
And it carries up to a 10-year federal prison sentence, merely possessing this particular software.
Possessing software that could be used for that purpose?
Could be used for programming cellular phones.
Or is it software whose only use is for the purpose of defrauding?
It doesn't say that, no.
It just says software for the modification of telecommunications instruments.
The legislation does not address cellular per se.
It says telecommunications instruments.
From reading between the lines, you can say that it's clearly aimed towards cellular and probably the newer emerging PCS technologies.
But I think right now it's being used for cellular fraud.
Unfortunately, it doesn't say that you have to actually commit any phone fraud to be found guilty of this particular statute.
Merely the possession of the software or hardware for programming cellular phones can be a violation of this new statute.
More interestingly, that's subsection B.
Subsection A refers to just the possession of a scanning receiver is also guilty of this statute.
It doesn't say anything about the type of scanning receiver or what frequencies it can be tuned to or what it could be used for.
Just the possession of a scanning receiver can land you in federal prison for 10 years.
You're saying that my possession of a scanner that can pick up cellular phone calls can land me in prison?
I didn't say that.
It just says a scanning receiver.
It's no more specific than that.
You mean any scanning receiver.
I know.
People listening to the radio right now.
Any digital radio, any radio that can scan is by definition a scanning receiver.
That is incredible.
Yep.
I can't believe that they actually are able to pass laws like this.
Anybody that has access to any federal law books, Title 18, which is the U.S. criminal code, Federal Criminal Code, Title 18, Section 1029,
which is subtitled Fraud and Related Activities Related to Access Devices.
And then Section A6B is this particular one I'm referring to.
A6A is the scanning receiver, and A6B is the hardware or software.
I'm baffled.
I'm beyond words here.
Now, as far as your particular situation, update us as to where you stand.
Well, I haven't been indicted yet.
I've been imprisoned for over 10 weeks now.
I've been in a federal prison since April 26th, and I have yet to have any indictment handed down.
Unfortunately, I'm not being released on bail.
The original bail amount when there were Pennsylvania state charges against me was $100,000 for possession of quartz crystals.
But that was dropped, and now I have no bail at all in front of a federal judge.
The reason for that is that the day I was picked up by the Secret Service at Delaware County Prison in Pennsylvania
and taken to the federal court building in Philadelphia, the moment we arrived, there was a bomb threat on the building.
And I had to sit out in the back seat of the Secret Service vehicle for about three hours handcuffed,
and I'm still recovering from a broken left elbow, and they had me handcuffed behind my back, which was very painful.
But the bottom line is it took us several hours to get into the building after they cleared the place of any suspected explosives.
I don't think there was a bomb.
It was just a bomb threat.
There was a lot of them going around that week.
Anyway, we got in there and went before the judge, and the Secret Service made a really big deal about the fact that when my home was searched,
amongst the thousand or so books in my personal library, there were two or three books on how to make fireworks and explosives.
And that went over like a lead balloon in the courtroom.
And based on that, the judge said I was a dangerous person, and he would not consider releasing me on bail.
It goes without saying that there were no explosives found in the house or anything like that, just books.
But evidently, it's not a good idea to have the wrong books these days.
Oh, boy.
So now, what do you envision as an indictment date or a trial date?
Is anything in the works?
I just found out a couple days ago that there is a grand jury proceeding that's going to take place tomorrow,
and two of my friends will be there.
They both refused to talk to the Secret Service, so the Secret Service decided to subpoena them.
So they will both be coming there.
Neither of them have anything to say about me that's incriminating, but they're going to be subpoenaed anyway.
So it'll be interesting to hear what they have to say tomorrow night after their appointment with a grand jury.
Yeah.
Now, unless we get cut off, or in case we get cut off, can you give out your address so that we have it here?
Sure.
I'm at the Fairton New Jersey Federal Correctional Institute, and that's F-A-I-R-T-O-N.
The first line in the address should say Fairton F-C-I.
F-C-I is in Fairton?
Or Correctional Institution.
Right, okay.
And then after that, you want to have the letter A with a dash, and then the word left.
So A-left, that's the wing that I'm in.
Okay.
Then my name, which is Ed Cummings, C-U-M-M-I-N-G-S, followed by my inmate number, which is 48919-066, and that's at P.O. Box 420 in Fairton, New Jersey, 08320.
Any letters or magazines or books that are sent my way would be greatly appreciated, because this is psychological torture as well as physical torture being here,
because anyone who likes to think or read is pretty much out of luck here, because there's not much to do.
Yeah, I can imagine.
Now, a clarification here.
Your name comes on the third line, not the first line.
It doesn't really matter.
Okay, it doesn't matter, because sometimes they're very bureaucratic.
It'll get to me.
What kind of facility is this?
This isn't something like what Fiverr was in, is it?
Well, this is a bit more secure here.
They have a lot of upper echelon organized crime figureheads here and drug kingpins and that sort of thing, along with the usual murderers and people like that.
You had a stabbing there a few days ago, didn't you?
Yes.
In fact, that person died two days later in the hospital.
Wonderful.
That sort of thing happens here.
I don't personally fear any of that, because I pretty much keep to myself, but it's not a pleasant place to be.
I just find this whole thing almost like a fantasy, what's happened to you.
Oh, it's very Kafka-esque, Emmanuel.
Well, every day I wake up and I have to almost shake my head in disbelief that this is going on.
It seems very surreal.
It just doesn't make any sense.
Even the guards and other inmates who have talked to me said, you don't belong here.
When I tell them my story, I'm like, this doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
So whether the federal government decides to hand down an indictment or not remains to be seen, but I've been in prison for two and a half months, and there's no light at the end of the tunnel yet.
And people aren't able to visit you, is that the story?
Only immediate family members.
Unfortunately, most of my family is deceased, and the closest immediate family member is a couple hundred miles away, so it's not, and any other people aren't permitted to visit me.
Friends, that's just not a possibility.
I guess we couldn't adopt you or something.
That might work.
But they'd want to see the official paperwork, I'm sure.
Well, you know, who knows which will take longer, that paperwork or this bureaucracy you're going through right now.
Well, I'll keep you posted in regards to whatever the grand jury hands down, if there's anything they bring down.
Tell us about how the phones are working over there.
You're able to make what?
You're run by an outfit called Locktel.
Yeah, I heard that.
And it's a privately owned outfit.
Their rates are about three times that of U.S. Sprint.
I have to go because someone else has the phone time after this.
It's very difficult to get the telephones.
I see.
But if you'd like me to call next week, I'll give it a shot.
Okay, let's shoot for that.
And mention my address again, because any mail I get would be good mental food.
I hope you'll be getting a lot of mail from here on in, but it's great hearing your voice, and hang in there because there are people out here thinking of you.
Thanks, Manuel.
All right, take care.
That was Bernie S. live from Federal Prison in Fairton, New Jersey.
I'll give his address out again.
Please write to him.
Please send him something.
He's in very bad shape as far as mental stimulation.
He's in a prison where people are not allowed to visit him.
This is a guy that basically was on the program a lot of times and did not do anything that can be considered a crime, did not even engage in red box fraud or anything, any fraud of any sort.
All he did was have electronic equipment.
That's really all he did.
He had electronic equipment, and he gave that electronic equipment to people.
And this is, we're talking about things like crystals and software and things like that.
We're not talking about breaking the law.
We're talking about having possession of electronic equipment and the knowledge on how things work.
Apparently that's enough these days to get you locked up.
His address is Fairton, F-C-I, that's Fairton, F-A-I-R-T-O-N, F-C-I, Federal Correctional Institute, A-L-EFT, and then his name, Ed Cummings, C-U-M-M-I-N-G-S, prisoner number, very important, 48919-066, P.O. Box 420, and that's in Fairton, New Jersey, F-A-I-R-T-O-N, New Jersey, 08320.
Hopefully we'll hear from him again next week, and hopefully when we hear from him next week he will have received a lot of mail.
Even if it's just a letter saying what your thoughts on this are, believe me, it's the most important thing in the world when you're inside a prison is to get some mail from people.
We'll be back in a couple of minutes with a continuation of my cable adventure, and we still have our Scandal of the Week coming up, which is a dandy.
Stay tuned.
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
We're listening to Kraftwerk, a special Redbox version of Kraftwerk's The Robots, here on WBAI Off The Hook.
We'll be taking phone calls in just a couple of minutes, but first let me continue with the, before I so rudely interrupted with that call from prison there, my story about cable TV.
This is going to seem pretty silly in comparison to what we just heard.
But basically, yes, they vowed to be at my house between 12 and 3, and then they called that morning to say that they had an appointment with me, but they couldn't understand why.
And I said, well, the problem is that this channel I'm supposed to be getting isn't coming in well, and your guy was going to come out and take a look and see what the problem was.
And they said, well, sir, we don't offer that channel.
And I said to them, well, yes, you do.
I get it.
It's right there.
It's the independent film channel.
And I said, yes, sir, we do offer that channel in some locations, but your location has not yet been upgraded so that you can get that channel.
And I said, well, that's very interesting, but obviously I'm getting the channel since it's here.
I've been getting it for several weeks.
It used to come in perfectly, and now it's got some static on it.
I just want someone to look at it.
And they said, sir, we can't send somebody out to look at a channel that doesn't exist.
And I'm beside myself.
I'm saying, look, this is not my fantasy here.
I'm watching this channel here.
Listen, this is the channel here.
And I went to that length to get them to believe that I actually got the channel.
And I said, sir, you're not supposed to get that channel,
and we're going to have to turn it off.
And at that point, I realized there was no point even talking to them anymore.
They insisted on giving me the Nashville network in place of the channel that they were going to remove.
And I said, please, don't do that.
Can we just pretend that we never had this conversation?
I'll continue to pay for a channel that's scrambled.
Just don't give me the Nashville network.
So I think I got them to agree just to pretend the whole thing never happened.
But the funny thing is they said, they sent me a postcard.
They said that my system would be upgraded by this date.
And now they say that they never sent that and that I'm not scheduled to be upgraded for a very, very long time.
And that I'm not supposed to be getting these channels, which I'm getting.
The whole thing is just a big mess.
It's what happens when people don't understand the technology and then they're put in charge of it.
So I've got this bizarre cable system that sort of half works and sort of mostly doesn't.
So that was my little run-in with the cable company.
No run-ins with 9X this week.
But who knows what's going to happen.
Actually, you know, it's not really fair to say that because there was sort of a run-in with 9X.
Although they don't know about it yet.
They don't really know about it.
But they're about to find out.
If they're listening to the show now, they're about to find out about what could be one of the biggest.
But there wasn't so much a run-in because they worked perfectly.
They did everything they said they were going to do.
It's just a question of why they did that.
But we'll get to that in just a moment.
First, I want to tell you about something that's going on in Ameritek land, which is in the middle of the country.
That's Chicago, Detroit, Minnesota, that fine stretch of the nation.
This comes from the Akron Beacon Journal.
Yes, in Ohio, too.
The Akron Beacon Journal.
Deborah Tarvin let her fingers do the walking right into her neighbor's telephone bill.
Due to changes in Ameritek's automated toll-free customer service line last year,
anyone can access basic billing information from about almost any of the company's 10.8 million households
in Ohio, Illinois, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Indiana just by knowing that customer's phone number.
That means anyone, anyone, your boss, your neighbors, your ex-spouse.
Ameritek previously required customers to use a three-digit access code printed on their monthly bill.
But early last year, as part of a technological upgrade, the company dropped the code.
Citing Ameritek studies showing customers overwhelmingly didn't want them.
But when Tarvin, a 42-year-old Akron resident, called last week to find out about her May bill,
she was surprised to learn how easily anyone else could gain that information and much more.
Concerned?
She tried her teenage daughter's phone number and got her daughter's billing information.
Then, in successive calls, she obtained the billing records for her parents and neighbors.
I am outraged, but well-informed.
I feel those records should be private, Tarvin said.
I think it's a breach of privacy.
Getting billing information by phone from Ameritek is markedly easier
than getting similar information from other businesses.
Most banks, credit card, and other services require customers to use a combination of account numbers
and personal identification codes to access billing data.
The information available through the customer service line, which is at 800-660-2626,
includes a customer's balance due, last payment date, and when a payment was received by the company.
That's something.
I'm going to try accessing that right now, in fact.
But let me finish the story first.
Customer service representatives available on the service can also arrange payment of a bill with a credit card.
Sort of a nice gift.
You could just sort of pay someone's bill with a credit card without them ever knowing.
Or someone else's.
Duplicate bills can also be obtained through the service,
but those bills are only sent to the address of the customer listed on the bill.
The mailing addresses cannot be changed by telephone.
It is impossible for anyone using the service line to find out what numbers a customer has called.
Still, Tarvin says simple billing information can reveal plenty,
and she called the 800 number to complain.
I kept telling her about right of privacy, and she kept telling me about test studies,
said Tarvin, recalling her conversation with an Ameritek representative.
That's close to the company's official position on the subject.
We did customer research, and they wanted the system to be quick and convenient as possible,
said Tim Fitzpatrick, Ameritek spokesman.
We'll be looking his number up a little later.
They don't consider overall bill information vital,
and they don't want to keep track of another number.
The primary driver in this is to make it as simple as possible.
Ameritek's move so far hasn't caused much of an uproar,
according to Ohio's Public Utility Commission and Consumers Council, the state consumer advocate.
We haven't had any calls about it, and we watch for things like that,
said Consumers Council spokeswoman Susan Gaskell.
There may be some, who hasn't paid her bill yet,
there may be some who would abuse this, but does that outweigh the convenience of having this?
It doesn't seem so.
These are the consumer people saying this.
Ameritek considered keeping the code system, Fitzpatrick said,
but it found out that most people who were calling to find out what they owed had misplaced their bills.
Without their bills, they couldn't find the required three-digit code,
rendering the service line useless to most people who needed it.
Since the change, use of the company's service line has doubled to about 5 million calls a year,
while Ameritek has received only about a dozen complaints.
Our customers are extremely satisfied with the system, he said.
Just the same, Ameritek is blocking access to the service for customers who request it
and is considering returning to a system that requires customers to use private access codes.
You know, I find the number, that stupid PIN number I've got to remember on my bank card is a real pain.
Wouldn't it be nice if I was able to get money without having that damn card in the first place?
You know, if I could just go up to the machine and tell them who I am.
You know?
Wouldn't that be a lot easier?
No more fiddling around in your pocket and inserting it and worrying about it not reading the magnetic strip.
Just give it your name and it will take money out of your account.
I mean, these people from Ameritek, they're really on the right track here.
Alright, we're going to try to call them.
I'm not sure if we'll be able to get through because it's out of the state.
So they might not let us.
Let's see what happens.
Nothing yet.
I don't know who I'm going to, uh...
Uh-oh.
We're sorry.
Your call cannot be completed as dialed.
Please check the number and dial again.
Well, it looks like, uh...
Looks like we're not able to dial that from this part of the country.
That's too bad.
But, as a consolation prize...
You know what we found out?
9x does the exact same thing.
That's right.
9x has an 800 number right here in New York that you can call to check your phone bill and the phone bill of your neighbors.
In fact, what I'm going to do right now is show you what happened when we tried calling this particular service
and entering the phone number here at WBAI and other places.
Take a listen to this.
Thank you for calling the 9x account information line.
If you are calling from a touch-tone phone, press 1.
Please have your 9x phone bill handy.
To repeat a message, press the star key on your phone.
If you need help, press 0 and your call will be transferred to a service representative.
Please enter your area code and telephone number.
We entered WBAI.
Let's see how our phone bill standing is.
Please hold while we check your account.
For billing and payment information, press 1.
For the amount you owe and the last amount billed, press 1.
To report a payment, press 2.
To make payment arrangements, press 3.
To verify your last payment, press 4.
The last payment we received was $546.03 on May 19th.
Thank you for calling the 9x account information line.
We do pay our bills here.
For other choices, press 1.
To end this call, press 7.
For billing and payment information, press 1.
If you have another telephone number you want to enter, press 3.
Now, we decided to explore a little bit at this point,
and we entered the phone number for NBC, the main number.
Please hold while we check your account.
For billing and payment information, press 1.
To report a lost or stolen 9x calling card, press 1.
To change your personal identification number or PIN, press 2.
Now, the reason we got that particular choice there was because I hit the wrong button.
I hit 4 before I was supposed to, so it put me into the lost and stolen PIN prompt.
So, I kind of got into a voicemail dead end there, and I had to hang up and call back again.
But, I can change people's PINs.
I can report their cards stolen.
And, there's so much more you can do.
A couple of those things do require a PIN.
But, finding out your balance does not.
Now, the next thing you're about to hear is when we finally did get through to the phone number for NBC
to find out if they, in fact, were paying their bills.
To repeat a message, press the star key on your phone.
If you need help, press 0, and your call will be transferred to a service representative.
Please enter your area code and telephone number.
Please hold while we check your account.
For billing and payment information, press 1.
To change your PIN number, for the amount you owe and the last amount billed, press 1.
To report a payment, press 2.
To make payment arrangements, press 3.
To verify your last payment, press 4.
To enter another telephone number, press 5.
As of yesterday, our records show we have not received a payment.
Thank you for calling the 9X...
NBC, pay your phone bill.
You did not pay the phone bill.
Please pay your phone bill.
...and call, press 7.
We now went over to CBS.
...payment information, press 1.
If you have another telephone number you want to enter, press 3.
Please enter your area code and telephone number.
Please hold while we check your account.
Your account is overdue in the amount of $12,863.52.
Uh-oh.
To report a payment, press 1.
To make payment arrangements...
I think CBS is having some difficulties.
$12,000 overdue?
Please enter the amount of your payment by pressing the keys that match the dollars and cents.
So we decided to make a little donation here and help them out.
And report our payment of...
...what do you say?
A dollar?
Yeah.
We can handle that.
Enter the number for the month you made your payment, followed by the pound key.
For example, January is 1, May is 5, December is 12.
Enter the number for the month you made your payment, followed by the pound key.
If you paid by mail, press 1.
If you paid in person at a payment location, press 2.
You paid $1 on May 25th by mail.
If this is correct, press 1.
If this is not correct, press 9.
Please hold while your payment is recorded.
Your payment has been reported.
You do not need to call your service center.
Thank you for calling the 9X account information line.
For other choices, press 1.
To end this call, press 7.
For the amount you owe and the last amount billed, press 1.
To report a payment, press 2.
To make payment arrangements, press 3.
To verify your last payment, press 4.
To enter another telephone number, press 5.
If you...
Sorry, we cannot process your transaction.
Sorry, service representatives are not available at this time.
Please call your service center Monday through Friday between 9 a.m. to 5 p.m.
The number of the service center is 2-1-2-8-9-0-2-6-9-0.
Well, that's the situation, though, CBS.
We helped out as much as we could, but they're going to have to cough up most of that dough themselves.
$12,000 overdue.
And you know what?
The amazing thing about this is I can get on the phone tomorrow, and I don't think it works right now.
Let me try it right now and see if we're able to get through.
As a security measure, I think they take this system down at night.
But we'll give out the number.
Thank you for calling the 9X account information line.
If you are calling from a touch-tone phone, press 1.
Please have your 9X phone bill handy.
I guess it does work.
To repeat a message, press the star key on your phone.
If you need help, press 0.
We'll see if that balance has gone down any.
Please enter your area code and telephone number.
Okay, we'll enter the main number for CBS.
Please hold while we check your account.
Your account is overdue in the amount of $12,863.52.
You know what burns me up about that is the fact that they didn't record the $1 that we put in.
They didn't credit that.
Apparently our word is not good enough for them.
I'm still overdue by that amount.
Well, I don't know.
The amazing thing is, okay, you can call it at night, too.
You can call this number, and I'll give out the number right now.
It's 1-800-698-3545.
Get on the phone, call that number, and check the phone bills of all your neighbors,
all the corporations in New York City that you're concerned about and interested in,
and 9X themselves.
See if 9X bills...
You know, let's find that out ourselves.
We can see if 9X actually...
I've always wanted to know this.
Do they bill themselves?
Haven't you wanted to know that?
I know I have.
Let's get a dial tone here.
Actually, I have to call information to find out what the number for 9X is.
I guess we want the corporate headquarters, don't we?
It's always fun asking information for 9X.
Yes, hello.
I need the main number for 9X, the corporate headquarters, please.
Hold on, sir.
Thank you.
It's a matter of some urgency.
You want something that's going to be open now?
Is that what you mean?
No, just the main corporate executive offices.
Executive offices in Westchester.
I have a general information on 6th Avenue,
and then I have something that would be open now called the President's Helpline.
I need a regular...
Not a toll-free number.
I need whatever that corporate headquarters in New York City is.
All right.
The only thing I have is a general information on 6th Avenue, then.
Okay, that'll do.
Okay, hello?
Thank you.
The number you requested, 370-7400,
can be automatically dialed by clicking the number...
No, no, no, no.
We don't need that.
We don't need any automatic dialing here.
Oh, for an additional...
I said we don't need that.
All right.
We're going to...
We're going to...
They're always trying to sell that service on me,
and I don't think I've fallen for it yet.
Not once.
All right.
We're going to call out their number now
and see if 9X themselves is charged
and if, in fact, they pay their bills.
I think I've dialed this number quite a bit in the last couple of days.
Thank you for calling the 9X account information line.
Yes, I have a touch-tone phone.
Skip that.
Have your 9X phone bill handy.
It's handy.
To repeat a message, press the star key on your phone.
If you need help, press 0.
No help needed.
No help needed.
And your call will be transferred to a service representative.
Let's get on with it.
Come on.
Let's go.
Please enter your area code and telephone number.
With pleasure.
Please hold while we check your account.
For billing and payment information, press 1.
That's what we want to do.
For the amount you owe and the last amount billed, press 1.
To report a payment, press 2.
To make payment arrangements, press 3.
To verify your last payment, press 4.
That's what we want.
As of yesterday, our records show we have not received a payment.
Thank you for calling the 9X account information line.
How do you like that?
For other choices, press 1.
To end this call, press 7.
Now, I don't think you can get the last bill.
Payment information, press 1.
If you have another telephone number...
Okay, let's see if they ask for a PIN.
They might just ask for one here.
The amount you owe and the last amount billed, press 1.
This is where I think they will ask for a PIN.
Please enter your three-digit customer code.
Yeah, so we don't have that, unfortunately.
So we can't enter that three-digit code for that information.
But you can find out how much a certain person or a certain company owes.
And in 9X's case, they haven't received payment, but apparently there is no balance.
So they don't owe anything, which is why they didn't receive a payment.
Unbelievable.
So, I imagine quite a few New Yorkers will be putting in an all-nighter tonight,
going through the entire phone book and finding out what everybody owes,
how big the phone bills are.
I mean, you know, I don't know.
I don't know if I want my information on how much I spend on a phone call
or on my phone bill in total going out there.
And if my phone bill, God forbid, is overdue?
I don't want everybody knowing that.
But apparently 9X doesn't care.
What are you going to do?
212-279-3400 is our telephone number.
Give us a call, and we will put your particular phone call on the air
if you have any comments on this little revelation.
I'd sure like to hear them.
212-279-3400.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Yeah, several quick comments.
One, regarding 9X, I noticed they never seem to have their customer service office open after 5,
but I've gotten calls from them at 8 in the evening trying to sell me services.
So I can't help but wonder why can't they have people on their customer.
Well, I do know this.
The people that call you are probably in different parts of the country.
They hire these clearinghouses that go and call people at all hours.
So it's not really related.
But, yeah, it's a good point.
They should be open 24 hours a day.
You can call AT&T at 3 in the morning.
So I don't see why you can't call 9X.
And one other thing relating to the Bernie S. situation.
The way those laws are written, does this mean that Microsoft Windows is a legal piece of software
because it can program modems?
Yes.
Under that definition, yes.
And it's important that we bring that out and say,
look at how this law can be applied and look how ridiculous it is.
Does this mean that the car radio that has the little scan button, you know,
where you press it and they'll find the next station?
Sir, it means your voice is a criminal law.
That's right.
A tool of criminal intent.
If you tell me how to commit a crime, your voice is definitely, and this radio station, in fact.
I mean, you know, the way that law is written,
it means that almost everyone could be prosecuted.
And so what this basically means is they can selectively prosecute whoever they want.
That's exactly what it means.
And you have to look at the way this particular thing came about.
Bernie S. was originally arrested because a local police department had no idea what he was doing
selling crystals to a bunch of African-Americans in a van in front of 7-Eleven.
Now, they all said to the police exactly what it was they were doing.
They were not trying to hide anything.
The reason they were in front of a 7-Eleven was because the people did not know where Bernie S. lived,
and he agreed to meet them there.
There was no criminal intent.
There was nothing underhanded going on.
But they didn't understand what all this electronic equipment was,
so they consulted with the Secret Service.
Secret Service said, oh, this is dangerous.
This is a dangerous bit of equipment here.
It can be used to defraud the phone company.
No other purpose.
And just on their say-so, they went in and arrested him based on that.
Obviously, that did not hold up.
It was a ridiculous charge.
But it gave the Secret Service time to try and build a case against him for selling the software,
which he has been very open about.
He sold it at the Hackers on Planet Earth conference.
He sold it through 2600 magazine.
It's not something that's illegal in itself.
But they're attempting to make a test case out of this.
And I really hope they not only fail, they fail dramatically and at their repercussions for this,
because this kind of thing should not happen.
What it basically means is that they can go and find someone they don't like,
and then they say, all right, we'll get him, so let's see how we can get him.
That's right.
And it could happen to any one of us, any one of us.
Nobody is immune from this kind of thinking.
And the way the law is written, I mean, it's basically the equivalent of making breathing a crime,
so therefore they can get anyone they want.
Well, yeah, it hasn't quite gotten to that point yet, but you can definitely stretch your imagination a bit.
All right, thank you very much for the call.
Yep, bye-bye.
Take care.
212-279-3400.
Good evening, you're on.
Hey, Manny, how's it going?
Pretty good, how are you?
I've got my address written down for Bernie.
I'm going to get a letter out to him tomorrow.
I hope so.
We're going to be reading that address again for people that might have tuned in late.
Bernie has called us from prison before.
I was going to suggest that, and I got my finger all ready to do a lot of punching for that AT&T account info line.
That's 9X, not AT&T.
Oh, it's 9X.
Let me cross that out, 9X.
I got a question for you.
I got some audio tape of a guy dialing a telephone number with touch tones,
and I'm trying to decipher it.
First, I tried to play the tape into the phone, and it made my dial tone go away, but nothing else happened.
Is there any software you could recommend or techniques you could recommend that decipher these touch tones
besides just sitting down and going, okay, is that a 1, is that a 2?
Well, you know, if you call, like, a local, say, phone mail system or something like that,
and what you do is you try and transfer yourself out,
and it gets to a point where it asks you, okay, enter the number that you want to transfer to.
You play it into it at that point, then it says back to you after you hit, I think, the pound sign or something.
It tells you what number you entered and press pound if this is correct.
That's the way I found which is probably the best and most accurate way.
Hey, that's a good idea.
I didn't think of that.
Yeah, try that.
Sometimes you have trouble with audio levels.
You've got to make sure the tape recorder is loud enough.
Okay.
But give that a shot.
If that doesn't work, you can play it for us, and we can have one of our experts decode it by ear.
Thanks for the assistance.
Okay, thanks for calling.
Bye.
There are people that do that, you know.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Yes.
Hello.
I'd like the number to that 9X again.
What's it worth to you?
All right, all right.
I'll give it out, only because I feel generous today.
Ready?
Yes.
It's 1-800-698-3545.
And, you know, I'm very surprised to find it working at this hour.
They usually turn it off at night.
Maybe they forgot, or maybe they just leave it on all the time now.
That's 3-5-4-5?
3-5-4-5.
All right, thanks.
Okay.
I see.
That number is going to get a lot of calls.
Now, it's going to be interesting to check next week and see if that number still exists.
You know, is there anybody we need to check?
Anyone's phone number that we want to see if they're paying their bills?
Anybody at all?
Hmm.
Well, we'll get a phone book later and have a bit of fun.
You know, at times like this, you know, we just forget.
You know, we forget.
All right, we checked all the other networks.
We didn't check ABC.
So, out of fairness, I guess we have to, but I don't have the number for ABC handy.
So, I'm going to have to call information yet again.
And, hang on, I've got to get the old phone ready for making an outbound call.
We'll call information, find out the number for ABC, and see if we can even get through to the number anymore.
Let's get a dial tone.
Call the Friendly Information Service and get the number for ABC.
A listing, please.
Yes, the American Broadcasting Company, please.
The number you requested, four, five, six, seven, seven, seven, seven.
All right.
What was the last digit?
Seven?
Okay.
Let's try that.
It's ringing.
They must have a lot of lines.
Thank you for calling the 9X account information line.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Let's skip this.
Please have your 9X phone bill handy.
It's handy.
To repeat a message.
You can skip right through those.
Your area code and telephone number.
Please hold while we check your account.
Sorry, we cannot process your transaction.
Please call your 9X service center.
You can find the phone number of your service center on your phone.
How do you like that?
We can't process it.
Now, either that's because ABC has been smart enough to somehow block this, or maybe ABC
does not have any outgoing service whatsoever, or maybe so many people are calling in right
now that it's impossible to get through.
We'll have to do a little bit more research on that.
Let's take some more phone calls.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Go ahead.
Hello?
Yes.
Yes, hello?
Yes, you're on the air.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
Okay.
What I want to talk to you about is, first of all, the 9X thing.
Yeah?
You broke this.
I broke it?
Yeah, you broke it.
I broke the service, or I broke the story?
No, you broke it because, first of all, so many calls are coming in that you can't possibly get it.
Well, I guess, yeah, I guess that might be an effect, a side effect.
But, you know, if you...
First of all, have you considered the fact that you're a fake hacker?
That I'm a fake hacker?
Uh, well, you know, there's nothing fake about hitting buttons, you know, and I'm pretty good at hitting the old buttons.
And you know what?
I'm going to hit this button right here.
There.
That's what we do with people that call me a fake hacker.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Yeah, good evening, Emmanuel.
I'm surprised I got on this evening.
Calling from New Jersey.
You got on because the last caller in front of you was a buffoon.
That's why you got on.
What's going on?
Are we going back to Fahrenheit 451 with the books?
Uh, yeah.
Well, you know, we didn't actually arrive there.
That was science fiction of something that could happen in the future.
What we've done is we've arrived at the future.
The only thing we don't have are the monorails.
That's true.
Yeah.
All right, have a good evening.
Thanks.
Guess I made his day.
Yeah, we're here.
Fahrenheit 451.
All right, let's burn some books.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hi.
How are you doing?
I'm good.
I'm good.
I have a question about the phone dialers.
Okay.
Okay.
The phone dialers.
Which phone dialers are you referring to?
The Radio Shack phone dialers?
Okay.
The, uh...
Crystalline.
Yeah, right.
That make them sound like that.
Exactly.
And that is the big deal.
Those little tones are the big deal.
Yeah, what's the exact crystal that they need?
Uh, 6 point, uh...
What is it?
6.5...
5 what?
6.55?
6.5.
6.5.
6.500?
I ordered a 66.
Uh, that's not gonna work.
Is it a 66?
I don't, I don't think that's gonna, that's gonna quite...
It depends.
You know, some, I know AT&T is much, yeah, it's, it's much more liberal as far as what
it allows.
9X is a bit more conservative, assuming that's what you use it for, of course.
Uh, we, we, we don't advocate this kind of thing, but if you're interested in how the
technology works, that's exactly what it does.
Um, 6.5.
0.0 is the best one you can get.
Uh, that's, that's readily available anyway.
Does that answer your question?
Uh, yeah, pretty much.
The other thing was...
Take the 66 back.
Excuse me?
Take the 66 back.
Okay.
Or send it back.
Yeah, and the other thing was, now what about, uh, phone booths?
Now, they, they do this around here, where the microphone does not go on.
Right, they, they mute it when, uh, when you're putting money in, or it's asking you for money.
I, I believe they mute it so that, uh...
When you pick up the phone, you get the dial tone.
You, uh, it's muted.
Oh, you're talking about a co-cut, I think.
You're not talking about a 9X phone.
No, I'm talking, I'm New Jersey, uh...
Oh.
Okay, are these, uh, New Jersey Bell phones, or, or Bell Atlantic phones?
I think Bell Atlantic.
They, they're Bell Atlantic?
Yes.
And they're muting the mouthpiece before you put money in?
Yes.
What if you call a toll-free number?
Uh, yeah, you can call the toll-free numbers.
You could dial, like, you could dial.
That, dial tones go through, but, uh, not through the mouthpiece.
You can't talk into it.
At what point does the mouthpiece unmute?
Uh, I guess once it starts ringing.
Mm-hmm.
So, I, I haven't tried this yet, but I'm figuring maybe if you throw, like, a dime in there,
and then, uh, then play your tones.
Yeah, that's, that's one way of doing it, if it, if it unmutes the mouthpiece at that point.
It, it doesn't really have a, a reason.
Some, uh, signal is getting through to it to tell it to unmute that all the money has
been deposited.
What you need to do is, is figure out when that particular, uh, occasion occurs.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, you know, every system has a way of, of, of tricking it.
Yes.
I'm not familiar with that particular one because that's not how they do it here.
Oh.
And the crystal you put in there, now, like, these, I, I opened mine up today.
I just bought one.
Now, you have to desolder it and put a new one in, right?
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
That's it.
All right.
Thanks.
All right.
All right.
Good luck.
Don't, uh, don't do it wrong or it could explode.
212, 279, 3400.
Do you have a, uh, comment on that?
It comes down to just skill.
Yeah.
It's skill.
I mean, we don't.
It's an issue of skill.
It's an issue of skill building the thing.
Using the thing is something that anybody can do.
But building the thing, that's, uh, anybody can press a button and make a tone.
Anybody.
Oh.
9X must be kicking walls right now to what we've done to them in this hour.
But, uh, they're only tones, folks.
That's all they are are tones.
It's what you do with the tones.
It's what you, with the actions you take.
That's, uh, that's where consequences come in.
I can only imagine what the consequences of that, uh, that 800 number are going to be.
Again, next week is going to be an interesting week.
Good evening.
You're on the radio.
Yes, go ahead.
Uh, hey, Emmanuel.
To me, you'll always be a real hacker.
Well, thank you so much.
How's your ISDN working?
Uh, you know, it's a funny thing you should say that.
Uh, I'm still looking for equipment to put on it.
The ISDN line is there.
It looks really nice.
But, uh, I have not plugged anything into it yet.
I feel kind of, kind of foolish doing that.
But I had an issue to get out, and I just didn't have any time.
Oh.
So now, you know, I'll try to devote a little bit more time to it.
It's just nice knowing it's there if and when I need it.
We've been following you for the last, you know, what, three months with this thing?
Yeah, and, you know, we gave 9X credit after about 45 days or so.
They finally got the thing installed, so we gave them credit for that.
Um, I did get a bill.
The bill was only about $10 for, I think, the first month.
I didn't see anything for installation.
I think they might have, uh, maybe I shouldn't talk about that.
But, uh, they may have forgotten to bill me for the installation.
That would be nice.
Well, keep us posted.
Okay, I will.
Bye.
Thanks for calling.
Good evening, you're on.
Yeah, I have a couple questions.
Go ahead.
Get the radio off.
First question is, um, DTMF, dual tone, it has, uh, normally has three, uh, cross and
four down as, uh, you know, pairs of tones.
Right.
Operators use a fifth tone, um, to make, uh, three more combinations.
What are those three combinations for, and what is that, uh, frequency they use?
I think you're referring to the fourth column.
No, to the fifth column.
Fifth column.
Yeah.
Well...
Some operators have a fifth column, and I'm not sure, I figured you would know what the
function is.
Well, I'm not sure what console, uh, specifically you're referring to, but operators have or had
in the past access to, you know, KP and ST and the 2600 hertz tone to, to manually do things
that, uh, that since became automated and now are done out of band.
Um, so I'm not, I'm not exactly, I can look into this a little bit more.
I don't know exactly what tones you're referring to.
It wasn't, it wasn't that long ago.
Have you ever, have you ever heard the tones in question?
I was being asked, uh, they're DTMF, you know, except it's a fifth row.
There's no fifth row of DTMF.
Yeah, not on a, what you call a civilian phone, but I mean...
Well, I don't think it's possible because it's a 4x4 grid, so I don't know how you would
have to...
No, 4x3 normally, isn't it?
Yeah, it's 4x3, but, uh, every phone has the capability of being 4x4, so I don't know
how you would make a fifth column out of something that's...
You'd just add one more tone.
You'd have to add another tone, right, and, uh...
You'd say it's three down, four across.
Right.
So it has, I don't know if it's one above or one below.
So you're saying there's a, there's a fifth row.
We'll look into this.
We'll ask around, but, uh...
Yeah, uh, another question, uh...
Got to make it real quick.
You get an antenna in the L2Z locker?
Uh, you know, I haven't had a chance to look.
Let me tell you where to look.
L2Z oversized locker.
I left you a note.
You didn't see it?
Uh, it's, it's been, it's very hectic around here.
I haven't had a chance to look at my mail in the last couple of weeks, but I will look.
I promise.
Okay, let me see, um...
We're out of time.
So we got to say goodnight.
Bye.
Okay, thanks for calling.
Thanks, everybody else, uh, for listening in.
Remember that, uh, number again, to check on your neighbor's phone bill is 1-800-698-3545,
although I think the purpose is to check on your phone bill.
Uh, the address for Bernie S is...
Let's see.
Yes, I know the theme has started.
We're out of time.
The address is Fairton FCI.
F-A-I-R-T-O-N-F-C-I.
A-dash-left.
The name is Ed Cummings.
C-U-M-M-I-N-G-S.
4-8-9-1-9-0-6-6.
P.O. Box 420, Fairton, New Jersey, 0-8-3-2-0.
Please, write to Bernie S and tell him you're thinking of him and, uh, tell him what's going
on in the world.
Makes a big difference.
We'll see you again next week if 9X doesn't come to get us before then.
Take care.
We'll be right back.
Good evening.
In the news tonight, the Clinton administration considers expanding the U.S. role in Bosnia.
Women and women's issues are getting less coverage on the front pages of the nation's newspapers.
And in New York, we look at the mayor's new budget and how it will affect the lead poisoning
prevention programs, and we'll have a follow-up report on yesterday's police action on the
Lower East Side.
With these and other stories, I'm Jose Santiago in New York with Werner Avery-Brown in Washington.
And this is the news for Wednesday, May 3rd.