Oh, that is an interesting show.
Do you want to hear another one?
No, okay, let's get on with the show.
It's time for Off the Hook.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
It could be yet much worse, but if they could, they would.
Bum, diddly, bum, but the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood.
Bum, diddly, bum!
Bum, diddly, bum!
Bum, diddly, bum, diddly, bum!
Bum, diddly, bum, diddly, bum!
Bum, diddly, bum!
And a very good evening to everybody.
This is Off the Hook.
Manuel Goldstein here with you.
Fiber Optic, are you there?
Yes, I'm here.
Fiber Optic joins us by way of, well, it sounds like a telephone, but it's different.
You want to explain to us just what it is that you're talking to us on?
Yeah, actually, I'm talking to you live on the air through my ISDN line.
ISDN.
It finally happens right here on the radio.
In fact, you wanted to come down to the studio tonight,
but I insisted that you stay home and use your ISDN line so that we could hear what it sounds like.
Well, here's what it sounds like.
And at the same time, I'm currently logged into my internet service provider.
Now, I should point out that you don't normally hear people whispering in the background
and all kinds of strange noises like you do now.
That's simply our studio background noise that we're required to broadcast.
But, you know what, I think we have Bernie S. calling in.
So, let's see.
I might need to borrow a 9 from you.
Okay.
All right, so hang on.
Hello, go ahead.
This is Locktell.
You have a collect call from Bernie S.
To accept the call, please dial 9 now.
If you do not want to accept this call, hang up now.
Give us a 9.
Please go ahead.
We are now connected.
Bernie S.
We are now connected.
Hey, how you doing?
We got FiberOptic talking to us via ISDN.
Oh, well, let me hear it.
Here I am.
Oh, you sound...
I sound exactly the same.
Are you on the lower channel or the upper channel, as they call it?
I'm on my first B channel.
Okay.
Okay, we also have Trent Reznor lurking around, but he's not going to bother us.
We're going to take some phone calls in just a little bit, but first, we just want to update the folks on a couple of things.
Bernie S., anything new in your case, first of all?
Well, there's a few developments, some of which I can't talk about on the phone, unfortunately.
Right.
Some of which we may be mentioning ourselves in a slightly different manner.
It was kind of alluded to in the show before us as well.
Ah.
Well, a word or something like this gets out pretty quickly, but basically it would appear, and I don't think it would be wise for you to pretty much give an opinion on this right now.
They're confirmed or denied.
It would appear that certain federal agencies are working overtime to try and prevent you from speaking on the radio in various forms, pressure to – we'll just say pressure to various entities.
Let's just put it that way.
However, it doesn't seem to be working all that much, but it probably would be better, I think, if we didn't fuel the fire anymore.
We simply – we have you on the radio here, and you can talk to listeners, but as far as particulars about your case, let's just – let's work on that off-air for now.
I can say something that is really common, public knowledge, and that is that I have a trial date scheduled, July 31st at 10 o'clock in the morning in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, at the U.S. Federal Courthouse, which is at 601 Market Street.
And it's in courtroom 9B, as in Bravo.
It's on the ninth floor.
So it should be – if it goes to a trial, which I believe it may at this point, it should be pretty interesting.
That's all I can say.
Yeah.
I hope a lot comes out in this because what has been going on has been shameful, to say the least, as far as the amount of wasted time, especially on your part,
and the amount of wasted expense prosecuting someone who hasn't done anything illegal as far as the vast majority of people seem to be able to see.
I mean, basically we're talking about possession of a box that can make five little beeps, which anybody can simply make very quickly,
and that in itself is not what you would call a fraud device or anything like that.
It's very, very simple – it's like basically having the ability to say, you know, I'd like to make a free phone call.
You know, saying that, that's really how easy it is.
You just make five little beeps, and some phones are actually able to process that as if it were a quarter.
It's a flawed system, and I don't think you should be having to pay the price for this.
As for the cellular aspect, I did a little bit of digging here, and I happened to find a copy of Nuts and Volts,
which is a terrific magazine for people that are interested in building things.
And, you know, they have classified ads there in every issue, quite a few classified ads.
I'm just going to read you a couple of these, and our listeners judge for themselves just what it is we're talking about.
Bernie S. sits in prison today with no bail because he's accused, A, of having a red box, wow,
and B, having software which could be used to modify a cellular phone.
Well, why don't we hear a couple of these advertisements here.
Cellular Programmer's Package Offer, Volume 1 and 2 of the Cellular Hackers Bible,
Cellular Programming Bible, Bag Phone Video Bible, and Cloning Cellular Telephone Video.
Basically, how-to as far as making a copy of a cellular telephone.
Here's another ad.
Multiple Cellular Phones, One Number, Enjoy Convenience of Two or More Cellular Phones,
All Using Same Phone Number and One Monthly Bill, Consumer Brochure, $5, Dealer, $10,
Become a CelluSoft Agent, No Investment Cost,
and there's a self-addressed stamped envelope offered to some place in Michigan.
Then we have a Triplet 5000 Cellular Phone Test Set, Reads ESNs, has a power meter and frequency counter built in,
Cellular Programming, Motorola Cables, Flip, $75, Bag Loaner, $50, Loader Kit, $150.
That's in Fort Wayne, Indiana.
We have PowerRite Cellular Signal Boosters, Reduce Dropped Calls, and all kinds of other copying type of offers there.
Union Jacks, Motorola Cellular Phone, Amps, NAMPS, Emulator Programming System for Flip and Bag Phones.
Here's another one.
Cellular Telephone Reprogrammed from Your Computer.
Motorola Bag Phone Changed in Minutes.
You know, there's a whole big market for this out there,
and a whole lot of people are doing exactly what it is that you're accused of doing.
They are not being prosecuted.
They're not being shut down or imprisoned.
I think this is all completely above the board.
Well, they're not even accusing me of doing anything with this offer.
They're merely accusing me of possessing it.
So that makes it even a lighter case as far as I'm concerned.
Well, you know, what's particularly interesting about that is that we offered that software as a premium here in WBAI,
so I guess anyone that pledged to the show and got that software as a result is just as likely as you to be sitting in federal prison now
because they possess the exact same thing.
It's a pretty scary world we live in when this kind of thing can come to pass.
I understand the same software may be available on certain Internet sites as well.
Yes, yes, that's certainly true.
Okay, who's got the static online here?
Probably that ISDN line.
Is that you, Fiber?
I hear static, but I get the feeling it's coming from your end and not mine.
Well, it probably is, but it's probably a bad line of some sort, as usually is the case.
Okay.
Where are you calling from, Fiber?
I'm at home right now in Manhattan.
Ah, what are the rates for an ISDN line?
ISDN basic service, which I have in my particular configuration.
I have alternate voice and data on my first B channel and data only on the second.
And that's approximately $30 a month.
And if I make data calls, it's a penny a minute.
It's not billed as a...
I talked to Bell Atlantic about this several months ago,
and they were planning on billing it by per bit as far as how much data is transmitted.
Oh, that would be pretty bad.
I know right now in Bell Atlantic, they charge a nickel a minute.
That's absurd.
And I think there are some places, because I was reading some tariffs for this,
some places do not charge.
They don't have a minimum per minute charge.
They just have a flat fee of some sort.
And that's what we're looking for.
Actually, looking over the tariffs, I noticed that a lot of the places that don't have a
per minute charge actually charge you more per month.
Well, you know, I could even deal with that.
It depends how much more they charge.
Do you know how much more they charge?
I'd have to check.
I mean, I'd even pay double.
How's that?
Okay, 9X there.
I've done it.
I've offered to pay double if you don't charge us that silly penny per minute.
You'd have a loyal customer in your hands.
Any 9X horror stories this week?
I can't say there are, only I do have a complaint, and I did report it.
Okay.
And that's that it's not exactly a horror story, but it seems to be that there's some
technical difficulties, which I don't know if it's specific to my ISDN line or whether
it's a network-wide problem.
But apparently, if I call someone, like when I called you, and you were talking to someone,
you happened to have call waiting, so I should have came in on your call waiting when I called
you.
But that's not what happened.
I got a really fast ring, your ring, and then all of a sudden I got either a click and
nothing, or I got my dial tone back again.
And while I was on the phone, I got a call waiting beep about once every second, which
really frightened me because, you know, there's a lot of call waitings coming in there.
I kept trying to flash over.
When I was calling you, I got disconnected so quickly, when I hit redial, it disconnected
me almost instantly again.
So I kept hitting redial over and over again.
So I actually reported this.
The other thing is that similar behavior, hearing a really fast ringing and then getting instantly
disconnected, is calling my business office.
I can't call my 9X business office right now.
Well, none of us can call our 9X business office because if you call the 9X business office,
you have to go through this call processing chain.
And then once you hit the final digit, they say, due to excessive call volume, we cannot
take your call right now.
Call again later.
Oh, you're getting that too?
Yeah.
Everyone's getting that.
It's insane.
It's my explanation to the problem, I guess.
Basically, go away and bother us some other time.
What I did to get through to them, I called the president's hotline and I told them I haven't
been able to reach my business office for days.
And I told her where I was and what the business office number was and she was able to put
me through somehow.
Tell them you're concerned, you want to make sure they're okay.
Maybe they're trapped or something and they can't get out.
So that's something to be concerned with.
Okay, I have something fun that I'd like to read for everybody and then we're going to
take some phone calls with Bernie S. on the line.
I hope we can do this without knocking you off.
Well, you can try it.
Go ahead.
Because sometimes there's like a click and that knocks you off.
But before we get to that, I just want to read some interesting things.
Now, I was overseas a couple of weeks ago, got back last Tuesday.
And when you're on a plane coming back into the country, they hand you out these little
forms that you're supposed to fill out to indicate if you want to declare anything, you know,
and tell them who you are, where you've been, that kind of thing.
There's two different forms.
There's one for citizens and there's one for aliens.
And what I always do is I always get one for the aliens as well as one for the citizens
just to see what it is they're asking them.
And I thought you might be interested in some of the questions.
Now, keep in mind that I've been to several countries over the past few weeks, and there
were no forms to fill out in any of those countries.
The most I was ever asked is how long do you plan to stay and maybe where you're coming
from or something like that.
Here, we have to fill out this whole big form with family name and all that kind of thing.
Okay.
That's great.
But then there's this other side where you have to answer questions.
This is only for people that are not citizens of the United States.
Here we go.
Question A. Do you have a communicable disease, physical or mental disorder?
Are you a drug abuser or addict?
Yes or no?
Can you imagine a physical or mental disorder?
You have to sort of check in and tell them what it is.
I mean, maybe you have a mental disorder that precludes you from filling out forms correctly.
That's great.
Didn't think of that.
Okay.
Here's one of my favorites.
Is there a penalty for perjury on this form?
I'm sure there's something in here somewhere about it.
I'll try to read this while I'm reading out loud.
B. Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude?
Moral turpitude, yes.
Not to be confused with moral turpentine.
Or a violation related to a controlled substance.
Or been arrested or convicted for two or more offenses for which the aggregate sentence to confinement was five years or more.
Or been a controlled substance trafficker.
Or are you seeking entry to engage in criminal or immoral activities?
They're asking, are you coming here to commit some crimes?
Do they mean a controlled substance in the United States or a controlled substance elsewhere?
I would imagine to be safe.
If there's a controlled substance involved someplace, check yes.
That's my advice to you on that one.
The substance is probably controlled somewhere.
Yeah.
To the moral turpitude, though, I'm more concerned with.
I don't know how they define moral turpitude.
I'd like to call them, actually, and ask them about this.
Yeah, I would write a letter to the State Department and find out exactly what they mean.
Yeah, well, if Michael Moore is out there listening, this is something for TV Nation.
I think he should, like, check into this and see just what it is they mean.
Okay, this is my absolute favorite.
C. Have you ever been or are you now involved in espionage or sabotage or in terrorist activities or genocide?
Or, between 1933 and 1945, were you involved in any way in persecutions associated with Nazi Germany or its allies?
Yes or no?
I bet they catch a lot of people on that one.
My immediate response is, if we're talking about somebody that was involved in Nazi Germany or perhaps in genocide or something like that,
are they really going to be too scared to say no on the forum?
They're going to feel obligated to not lie?
I mean, that's a violation of the little green forum here.
You can't have that.
This is so typical of the way people in power think sometimes.
So, okay, I've gotten through those first three questions.
There's still four more.
D. Are you seeking to work in the U.S. or have you been excluded and deported or been previously removed from the United States
or procured or attempted to procure a visa or entry in the U.S. by fraud or misrepresentation?
Again, yeah, they're going to be honest about that if they used fraud or misrepresentation before.
E. Have you ever detained, retained, or withheld custody of a child from a U.S. citizen granted custody of the child?
In other words, are you a kidnapper?
Yes or no?
F. Have you ever been denied a U.S. visa or entry into the U.S. or had a U.S. visa canceled?
If, yes, when, and where?
And G. Have you ever asserted immunity from prosecution?
It seems to me that if you had, you wouldn't have to talk about it.
That's sort of the whole point of immunity, isn't it?
So those are the questions that foreigners have to answer whenever they come into this country.
They used to have to answer whether or not they were members of the Communist Party,
but I think they finally got rid of that one.
It may be coming back.
Yeah.
I'll be cut off within a minute, but I'll try to call back.
Okay, try to give us a call back, and hopefully we'll be able to talk more, and we can take some phone calls, too.
I'd be interested if the results are available, sort of a general breakdown of how these questions are answered.
Uh-huh. Yeah, I imagine it's public knowledge someplace.
That would be worth filing a FOIA request for.
Yeah, absolutely.
Okay, well, thanks for calling. We'll hear from you a little later, hopefully.
Well, we'll be cut off by a loud click, and then I'll call back.
So I'll stay on until that click happens.
Okay, let's all listen for the loud click.
Let's click order to bring back memories, Farber.
Oh, yeah.
Well, you were never on the receiving end.
What's that?
Is he still there?
I'm still here.
Oh, okay.
Were you experiencing a lot of clicks, pops, squeals, and other crosstalk and other noise
when you were on the telephone system where you were, Mark?
Uh, no, not that I recall.
But we have that here at BAI all the time.
Okay, he's gone now.
There was the click.
All right, now this is a good time to determine if you're the cause of the static.
Okay.
I don't think you are.
Okay, that's good then.
But it means when he calls back, there'll be more static.
All right, so as far as this forum goes, this is the U.S. Department of Justice, Immigration
and Naturalization Service, OMB number 1115-0148.
And they did some study on this.
Public reporting burden.
The burden for this collection is computed as follows.
Number one, learning about the forum two minutes, completing the forum four minutes for
an estimated average of six minutes per response.
I think we spent a little more than that on this right now, but think of how many people
we're reaching.
If you have comments regarding the accuracy of this estimate...
Oh, here he is again.
I'll need a nine from you again.
Okay.
You ready?
Okay.
Yes, hello.
This is Locktel.
Ah.
I have a collect call from...
Bernie S.
To accept the call, please dial nine now.
You do not want...
Please go ahead.
You are now connected.
Greetings.
It worked twice in a row.
I'm amazed.
Yeah.
Now, we were just going over the burden for a collection of this forum, and they estimate
it's going to take about six minutes per person to respond to the questions in this
forum.
Is it a multilingual forum?
No.
So I guess that will add a few minutes to it.
Yeah.
If...
What if you do not speak or read English?
Yeah.
It's interesting.
So yeah, I suggest people get copies of this because it's kind of neat.
Anyway, the address to write to, if you're interested in more information about this,
INS 425 I Street Northwest, room 5304.
I'll bet they have a lot of these forums.
Washington, D.C.
20536.
20536.
Yeah.
What a lot of fun that was.
And of course, you know I got searched again coming into the country.
I mean, I just...
They just love doing this to me.
I mean, I was ready for it this time.
But they made these comments, you know, because I have my various hats and coats and things
like that that say FBI on them.
And they said to me, they said, you know, you better be careful wearing that in the streets
because you'll get shot right on the spot.
And I'm like, yeah, you know, the citizens of this country are so out of control that they're
just going around gunning down people from federal agencies.
I really sympathize with you guys.
It must be really tough.
And it's just the kind of attitude they have.
They have such a low opinion of people that they really think that they're going to go around
shooting them all the time.
I sense in recent months, especially here being in custody of the Bureau of Prisons,
there's just a general high level of paranoia amongst federal government employees as of late.
Well, there's a fairly high level of paranoia among the citizenry, too, about being locked up
for various reasons.
But I don't think it's reached quite the stage that they seem to think it's reached.
All right.
We have Bernie S. and Fiberoptic on the phone with us.
If you want to join us on the phone, call 212-279-3400.
If you have a question to ask them.
And while we're waiting for those phone calls to light up, time for a couple of letters.
Okay.
Dear Emanuel.
Actually, dear Mr. Emanuel.
I listen to your program regularly as possible.
What bugs me is that idiotic music in the background.
It becomes impossible to listen to what is said.
Very, very annoying.
It makes no sense at all.
Please, explain what the purpose is.
Maybe I am missing something.
I could not believe my ears today when you said, turn the music up to someone.
It's like Chinese torture.
Makes me want to switch to another station, but I'd rather listen to you.
Well, I do appreciate the confidence in me.
And I'm glad you brought this to my attention because I hadn't been aware of music in the first place.
I was joking when I said, turn the music up.
I was just thinking about something else probably.
If you're hearing music, it could be because there's another radio station interfering or, sad to say, there could be something wrong with you where you hear music all the time.
And I don't know exactly what causes things like this.
But the main reason for this radio program is to convey information.
And part of our obligation is to see to it that nobody interferes with the dissemination of that information, whether they're outside the station, whether they're inside the station.
So, hopefully, that brings this to an end.
I certainly hope so.
There's one somewhere where someone who is constantly hearing music, it turned out to be their dental work, their braces, were resonating at a particular AM radio frequency.
It could be, yeah.
Braces can cause all kinds of effects like that.
So, if you're hearing music, it could be caused by your braces.
Sometimes, you know, it's the government.
Sometimes, they're bombarding your house with RF to drive you crazy or, you know, make you go insane or confess to something that perhaps you're guilty of.
I don't really know.
I don't have an explanation for it.
But hopefully, hopefully, we can help out in whatever way we can.
Here's another letter from Brooklyn.
Dear Emanuel, I should point out that this letter looks very familiar as far as the handwriting goes.
I think Rebel wrote this letter.
I just do because there's two things here.
The paper is the same.
Yeah, I remember what people write on, what the paper looks like.
I do.
And also, there's no stamp on it.
There's no stamp at all.
It was just brought to the radio station here.
And I know that Rebel likes to come to the radio station and deliver things to people in a strange and mysterious way.
But I'll read the letter anyway, even though I suspect it's from Rebel.
But it says, the name it says is Billy Irock from Brooklyn.
Dear Emanuel, I recently moved into an apartment in the basement of a two-family house in Bensonhurst.
After I had phone service installed, I came across an old Trimline phone, the one from the 70s, the one with the touchtone pad inside the handset.
I managed to install it in my jack.
There was a dial tone, but when I pressed the buttons, the dial tone was still there.
I then realized that I did not have touchtone features on my line.
The old Trimline phone from the 70s does not have a pulse switch like today's phones.
I called 9X and had them put the touchtone service on my line, and they said it would be on two business days.
Takes a while to press buttons.
Getting to the sad point of this story, that night that I placed the touchtone order,
and my landlady's 84-year-old mother, who lives upstairs for me, had a heart attack and needed medical attention.
I picked up my phone to call 911, and I could not dial with tones.
I had to run to my sister's house next door and use her phone.
Help arrived, but too late.
Sadly, the 84-year-old woman died on her way to the hospital, and the doctor even said,
had the patient come sooner, they may have been able to save her.
Emanuel, please tell your listeners to call the PSC and demand the touchtone fee be eliminated.
Those few minutes were vital to this woman, and it was all because 9X doesn't let you use your tones unless you pay.
I told the story to 9X, and it seemed as if they did not care.
Thank you, Billy Irock of Brooklyn.
Well, that's tragic.
It is tragic.
And, you know, I don't know if anyone else has heard something about this,
or if this was simply a projection of something which could have happened.
I'm not really sure if this actually did happen.
I'd like to know if anyone else has heard something like that.
Well, that a telephone company can get away with the charging of the touchtone service in this day and age is also tragic.
Yeah, it is.
And I have good news, too.
As of September 1st, I believe, assuming the new tariff passes, that is,
the touchtone fee in New York will be abolished as of September 1st, totally.
Would there be a rebate for all the unearned revenues collected over the years for this touchtone service?
That would be nice, but I don't think it's going to happen.
I don't think it's going to happen at all.
So this is something that certainly could have happened,
something that probably has happened in the past if it didn't happen this particular time.
Of course, you can always flash a switch hook ten times and get an operator.
You know, that's always a possibility.
So if you're stuck with a touchtone phone, it doesn't get out for whatever reason.
That's one solution.
Okay, so that's the letter reading part of the show today.
I guess it's time to take some phone calls.
You guys ready?
We're ready.
Okay, let's go.
Good evening, you're on.
Hi.
Oh, I don't know how you do it.
I just don't understand it.
Somehow you know what button I'm going to hit because I didn't hit the first button this time.
I did not hit the first button because I knew you'd be on the first.
I think you're on all these lines.
That's what I think.
It's our new phone system that we have.
Okay, Rebel, you wrote this letter, didn't you?
You might as well fess up now because you recognize your handwriting, recognize the paper, recognize your style.
By confessing to this, you will be in fact confessing that you have style.
Okay, well, I just want to ask you.
I'd be a good interrogator, wouldn't I?
Do you know that somebody on the 4th of July removed the coin box out of a pay phone
and you can put a quarter in and then catch it when it comes back, when it gets collected?
You can catch the quarter before it makes it into the phone?
In other words, the coin box is like blown off.
Blown off?
In the 4th of July with the fireworks.
Oh, okay, with the fireworks.
Yeah, natural risk of fireworks.
I just put in a quarter, make a phone call, and then when the coin gets collected, I just catch it.
Stick my hand in there and catch it.
Fiber, would that work?
Yeah, if the coin box was blown out with, say, a few M80s or something, yeah, there would be this large gaping hole in the phone,
which you can then probably catch your change as it gets collected.
But you would have to be careful not to, or the person doing this would have to be careful not to blow out the part of the phone that collects the coins
and determines that there is, in fact, the coin to start with.
Right, that's true.
And, you know, how do you report whole exchanges?
In other words...
Are you still trying to report that exchange that makes free phone calls to another exchange?
Right.
I'm sorry.
I reported it.
They seem not to understand.
I keep reporting it, and they don't understand.
There's a number in the 212-221 exchange where pay phones are in the 212-221 exchange by 42nd Street on the west side of Manhattan.
When you dial an 890 number, it charges you.
It's asking for a quarter.
Well, that's wrong.
It's programming.
It's all programming.
Right, but how do you report a whole exchange?
Because all the pay phones with 212-221 do this, and I try to report it to a repair service.
They say, well, I need one phone number, and I said, well, it's the whole exchange.
You need to bypass repair.
Either go into the computer yourself and fix it, or talk to somebody who knows what it is you're talking about,
which would probably be someone about three steps above the supervisor.
You just got to keep going up until you can't go up any further.
You know, that's really the only solution.
If you keep going at the entry level, you'll just be frustrated.
They may even say they're going to fix it, but they won't because they don't have the authority to.
And by the way, how is Bernie Essel able to call the WBAI collect?
I thought it was Blockford collect.
Yes, it is.
How is Bernie Essel able to?
Now, I have another question for you, though.
Now, you told me at the 2600 meeting that a certain voicemail system was unreachable via MCI.
You want to tell the folks about that?
Yes.
Oh, yes.
Thank you for letting me know about that.
No problem.
Your voicemail system, which Emmanuel runs, if you dial through MCI, whether you're locally here,
you just dial 10-222 and then 1-516-473-2626 or 0-516-473-2626.
I haven't tried it with the 1 yet.
But you cannot make calls through MCI to 2600 voicemail because MCI says that there is a lot of fraud going to that number.
Did they say that?
That's what they said.
So they're actually blocking...
They're code 3, they said.
They're blocking access to our voicemail system because they say there's a lot of fraud going to that number.
Right.
Sounds like harassment to me.
Well, it sure does.
I mean, they have to complete phone calls, don't they?
That's their phone company.
Well, try it.
Try dialing 1-0-2-2-2-1-5-1-6 and then your number, or 0-5-1-6 and then your number.
If you dial 0-5-1-6 and then your number, you will not get their bong.
In other words, you will just get the operator.
You will not get their billing tone.
If you dial 0...
In other words, if you dial 1-0-2-2-2-0 and you record a number, you'll get their billing tone and it'll say MCI.
Well, you know what?
I don't know if anybody saw Dateline NBC last night, but MCI seems to be engaged in a lot of fraud themselves.
I think a lot of people should probably disconnect themselves from MCI for the same reason, if they're going to use that kind of tactic and victimize innocent people.
You know, it's very easy to commit fraud, to bill something to someone else's number and things like that.
It takes only a couple people to do that.
If they're going to deny everybody access based on that, it's really a disservice, not only to us, but to themselves as well.
Well said.
Thank you.
Right.
All right.
Well, thanks for bringing that to our attention, and I guess people want to experiment with that.
They know how.
You should experiment with it, too.
Just show people what I'm talking about.
Okay.
Well, we can't reach MCI from here.
All right.
You can dial 0-1-0.
In other words, have the operator.
Well, we certainly can with Bernie S. on the line because if we start making calls, something...
You know what?
Maybe...
Oh, I've got an idea.
I have three-way.
No, no, no.
I don't think we can do that.
The point is, if you do call processing things, what is it?
Your phone will disconnect?
Yes.
If it hears any call progress tones.
Yeah.
So you've got to be careful with that.
So that's why we had to disconnect him.
All right.
Let's go on to another phone call.
Good evening.
You're on.
Hi.
I'm calling to find out or ask you guys, how can I get a dial tone from another state?
Oh, that's a good question, actually.
It would come in very handy sometimes if, say, you needed to reach an 800 number that's only
dialable in a certain state.
Right, right, right, because I try to call the 800 number and the message says something
like, this number can be reached from this calling area.
Right.
And I can know how I can get a dial tone from, like, a different state, maybe, like, Iowa
or Idaho or somewhere.
Fiber, any suggestions on this one?
Let's see.
The only thing I might suggest doing is if you could somehow get a local operator in another
state, like when you do a long-distance emergency interrupt, say, for example, if you called
9X by hitting zero or if you called AT&T with double zero, they're actually calling an inward
operator in the local telephone company or the place that you're making the emergency
interrupt.
If you could somehow convince the operator that you needed to speak to an operator in another
state, then you could have her complete the call to the 800 number.
And it would be as if you were local in that state.
Would they actually do that?
How much luck you would have convincing them, I don't know, but technically it's 100% possible.
Was that your click, Bernie S.?
That was my click.
I have 60 seconds to go.
Okay, are you going to be able to call us again?
It depends on how many other people need to use the phone, and there's a big line, so
I guess not.
Okay, well, I mean, you could act menacing or something, but I don't know.
Whatever works in prison.
I'm not the menacing type, although the government seems to have other ideas about that.
That's true.
Okay, well, call us back if you can.
We're on for another 25 minutes.
Okay, well, I haven't been cut off yet.
I have another 45 seconds or so to go.
Okay, caller, did that answer your question?
Yeah, that kind of answered my question.
And also, is there any way I can, well, sometimes I can't use my calling cards in certain areas.
Is there any way I can go bypass the AT&T or MCI system as using my calling card?
Because some places I can't call because there's a block in the area.
You mean like certain countries?
Yeah.
Well, I know that they've blocked certain countries.
We've lost Bernie S, by the way.
They've blocked certain countries in, I think, the Mideast, in the Caribbean.
Again, for the same reason MCI is blocking calls to our voicemail system.
I guess we should be honored.
Um, because there's a high number of fraudulent calls supposedly going there.
It's virtually impossible to call Columbia on a calling card.
Um, Fiverr, any ideas on how to bypass something like that?
Um, well, I mean, typically, if I wanted to call a country that was blocked,
I would call up AT&T and tell them that I wanted to be able to call that country,
and they would enable it on my account.
It's pretty straightforward.
How about your calling card?
Would they enable it on that?
No, yeah, that's what I mean.
Not even that.
I mean, it's just a block.
There's no way they can do it.
Just a block in the area, I guess.
They can.
If you call AT&T and you tell them you want to be able to call a specific foreign country
that they have blocked because of, uh, fraud reasons,
they'll enable your calling card to call that country.
Oh, okay.
I didn't know that.
Yeah.
Okay, thank you.
That's it, then.
Okay.
Bye-bye.
Take care.
I guess the key is to just be insistent, you know, and to know what your rights are.
Sure.
Because lots of times they'll say, oh, it's not a policy to do that,
and, uh, you know, you basically say, uh, wrong, try again, you know,
and eventually they'll, they'll see it your way.
You are the customer, after all.
It's important to remember that.
212-279-3400.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Good evening.
What?
There's something wrong with this button.
Let me try that again.
This button does not pick up.
How do you like that?
Well, there's one unlucky caller out there that will never get picked up
because no matter how many times I hit the button, it just won't work.
Oh, well.
Good evening.
You're on.
Yeah.
It, uh, uh, can you hear me?
Yes, I can.
Yeah.
This is Emmanuel.
I'm a devoted listener, but I want to ask you something.
Last week.
Okay.
Uh, you, um, you, uh, first of all, you called MCI and you tried to find out some rates.
Yes, I tried.
It took a long time.
It was absolutely fantastic, the rates they give, because I have outreach with AT&T,
and you can get practically all the places they said, like, for 45 cents.
I mean, it's just incredible.
Well, I think 85 cents is what they said it was, the lowest rate.
Anyway, whatever it is, I don't have it in front of me now.
I couldn't get through last week.
Uh-huh.
But I want to ask you something.
You mentioned that in, in England, and I think in Holland, that there was, uh, you could,
for, uh, there was a number that you could, uh, uh, more or less for free call the United
States and speak for 30 seconds or so, uh, and I have not heard of it.
I make many, many calls to, to Europe and to Germany, my world outreach, at a very cheap
rate.
Right.
And it cost them a fortune to call from, say, from Germany here.
Well, you see, what I, what I was saying, it wasn't necessarily a number.
I'm just saying that if you call the United States from overseas, uh, they bill it based
on the TIC system, uh, which is basically a series of pulses.
So if you call from a pay phone, you put in the minimum amount for a pay phone, which
is about, let's say it's a quarter, the equivalent of a quarter in any country.
You throw in a quarter and that gives you one TIC, which an, on an overseas call could
be as little as 10 seconds, but at least you get through to a number for 10 seconds.
You can say something quickly in that amount of time.
And, you know, for a local call, obviously you'd have a much longer period of time here
in this country to make an overseas call, you have to put in an initial deposit of something
like $2.60, which, uh, is a completely different way of billing.
You're talking only from pay phones?
Uh, well, the same applies to residential phones as well.
It's, it's the TIC system.
If I have a friend in Germany and he can call me, uh, does it have to, for 30 seconds and
say, now you can reach me, then I can call him back?
That's right.
It's, it's, um, it's not very expensive for him to call you for a few seconds to say,
call me back.
No, not at all.
Does it have to be on a pay phone?
No, it doesn't.
It doesn't.
I mean, he'll get billed the same amount if he calls from his home.
I, oh, really?
Yes.
Oh, that's very good to know.
Yes.
I have one more question.
If he stays on for a long period of time, though, the rates will be probably more than
here.
I think they're more expensive if you do it that way.
Yeah.
And I have one more question.
I have, for many, many years, I have, uh, I have everything with AT&T and I have, or
I want to, whatever, but when I make a call and for, and I say, uh, I have to wait, you
know, and the phone is silent for, for a few seconds.
Okay.
Uh, a computer voice comes on the phone and says, if you wish to make a call, please hang
up and dial again.
Or, if you wish, it's just to call your operator.
And this has happened for years.
That's, that sounds like your phone was left off the hook somehow.
No, no, no.
And, and, uh, this has gone on for years and they can't find out where it comes from.
It costs a fortune.
Well, now, how, how could it cost anything?
Is the recording saying your phone was off the hook?
No, because I have to call back.
I have to disconnect.
Okay, so, let me, let me get this straight.
You're calling somewhere overseas.
Supposing I, I, supposing I call you and say you are in, in, in Italy.
Okay.
And, uh, uh, and, uh, I reached the number and, uh, I reached somebody and said, please
hold on, I have to go and call such and such.
The phone is quiet for a few seconds.
But the minute the phone is silent, this computer voice comes on and they can't locate it.
I've tried to locate it.
Sometimes they think it's in Florida and Iceland.
An automatic thing comes up and says, if you, uh, uh, if you wish to, uh, uh, make a call,
dial your operator.
Well.
You need to say, you know, that happens automatically when the phone is silent.
Yeah, well, I can tell you what's happening.
When the phone is silent, uh, apparently the people on the other end are hanging up.
I don't know why they're hanging up or how they're hanging up, but that's why you would
get that recording.
When they hang up and you're just sitting there on the phone.
Yeah, but they didn't hang up, you see.
Well, they said they didn't hang up.
How, how well do you know these people?
Well, I'm talking about people that are very good friends and people I'm involved with.
And I think, you know, I'm talking about, but I know that nobody hung up.
Okay.
Well, for some reason it would appear their line is being disconnected.
Maybe somebody else is involved in this, but it just, I don't think the phone company
waits for silence and then sends across a recording.
It only happens when I make the call if somebody calls me in that silence.
It doesn't happen.
Uh-huh.
Is it from the same country?
Yeah, it doesn't matter whether it's Germany or whether it's in this country, whatever it is.
Okay, so you're saying, you're saying it's whenever they call you?
No, it's when I make the call.
When you make the call.
Say, I make the call, say, and then, and I get a switchboard, say, and, and they have
to, you know, connect me or in a hospital.
Okay, then it could be something on the switchboard level.
Someone on the switchboard sees, you know, is, is monitoring maybe and they see silence
and they disconnect at that point.
Yeah, they see silence, but they can't locate that switchboard.
Uh-huh.
You have no idea.
Well, uh, it's, it's hard to say how your call is connecting.
Are you dialing someone in a house or in a, in a...
Yeah, in Manhattan from an apartment.
No, are you dialing somebody in a foreign country inside a house?
Uh, yes, yes, yes, to, to a private apartment or wherever, or to an office, whatever.
Fiber, you have any thoughts on this?
It does sound, uh, rather peculiar.
I don't know what to say.
Very peculiar.
It's going on for years.
We've tried to check it, you know, and they can't find it.
That's, uh, have you ever tried doing this from another phone?
Uh, I, no.
Well, okay, the important thing, in a case like this, the important thing is to eliminate
all the possibilities, so...
To try it from another phone.
To try it from another phone, if it happens from another phone, then you know it's not
your phone, okay?
And then you can gradually narrow it down to wherever the problem is coming from.
Just keep changing the variables.
Have the person in Italy or wherever go to another phone, call them there, see if the
same thing happens.
You know, try to duplicate the situation as much as possible.
Oh, you mean, oh, I, I said, that, no, I mean, I would have to do the same thing from,
uh, say, from another phone in my building or something.
Yeah, try it from your building, and then, if the same thing happens in your building,
try it from another part of the city.
Yeah.
Until you realize where it's coming from.
I've tried now for a number of years, you know, talk to AT&T, and they, they say they
can fix it, but then they don't know where the, where that switch is.
Well, I don't think AT&T is going to be any help whatsoever.
If you want to get to the bottom of this, you're going to have to do some detective work.
Uh-huh.
Well, I, okay, well, I don't want to hold up your line, but your program is wonderful.
Okay.
Well, thanks for calling.
Good luck.
Well, at least we didn't get cut off.
I was a little worried about that, but that's a, that's an interesting problem.
I kind of wish I had problems like that, because you can, you can sort of spend your time trying
to figure out what's going on.
But, okay, 212-279-3400, how do we, how do we top that one?
Good evening, you're on.
Hello?
Yes, go ahead.
Okay.
Hey, I recently got a letter from a long-distance wholesale club.
Hey, I know the letter you're talking about.
They tell you to dial a, uh, 10X-
10297.
10297, and you can save up to, what, 75%?
Yeah, yeah.
Uh, is that a legitimate outfit, or?
I don't know.
I've never heard of them before.
Fiber, are you familiar with this at all?
Yeah, actually, I got the same letter.
What was interesting is, uh, the false advertising on the envelope, which claims that dialing instructions
have been changed.
Hello, and the other one is down, it says Arlington.
Well, no, the thing is, it says, important dialing instructions for New York telephone
customers, and I fell for that.
I thought it was a New York telephone.
Telephone customers.
Of course, New York telephone doesn't exist anymore, so it was very, very sneaky, because
they're saying telephone customers in New York.
New York telephone customers.
There's no such company anymore.
Yeah, and the other thing that's got me suspicious, I live in East Harlem, and lately they've been getting
these letters with checks.
Uh-huh.
We have a lot of seniors here who don't speak English.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
And the check, you know, says $10.
But you have to sign over your long distance.
And I recently saw in a paper that it says they get hit with a different company.
Yeah, they wind up by signing that check, they switch to a long distance company.
And they switch over without knowing it.
And they also have to pay a fee to the local company for doing this, which I believe is
$5.
And they end up with a big bill.
And one woman found that out, and she got it moved back.
Uh-huh.
And she got very real pissed about it.
Well, hopefully more than one woman got it back.
But anyway, the point is...
I was wondering about the 10297.
I thought it was something...
Yeah, that's not the case here, because this is a company where you don't have to change
your long distance company to use it.
You're using a carrier access code.
What is it, 10297?
I said, keep your current long distance carrier.
Uh-huh.
No club to join, no minimum.
All you do is dial that number, and you automatically are billed on your telephone bill.
Yeah.
So, I mean, that's pretty straightforward.
You can't be cheated by using a carrier access code.
I mean, as far as having your phone line changed.
However, will their prices match what they say?
Well, they say what their prices are, so it's either they're telling the truth or they're
not telling the truth.
It seems pretty simple.
Uh-huh.
I suggest trying it, see what the bills look like, see if any of the bills are
if anything weird happens.
Enough people have gotten this letter so that we can compare experiences.
I see.
Okay, thank you.
All right.
Bye-bye.
Take care.
What was your impression of that letter, Fiber?
Well, I think it was pretty obviously a scam to me.
Well, what's the scam, though?
I mean, they say what they're billing you.
I looked at the rate.
Like, for England, for instance, it's something like 50 cents a minute.
Yeah, but it wasn't so much that, you know, here's our service, why don't you try it,
these are our rates, see what you think.
Uh-huh.
It was the tricky instructions on the envelope that makes it sound like,
to somebody that's unfamiliar, makes it sound like it's coming from the local phone company,
saying that this is what you should dial from now on.
Yes, that's true.
But consider the local phone company, too, and they do exactly the same thing.
You know, so I'm not really that concerned as to who's sending me the letter.
The question is, you know, what kind of a deal is it?
The phone company is not necessarily going to offer the best deal.
You know, the local phone company or even AT&T or Sprint or MCI.
Now, these guys claim that the reason they can offer such cheap rates is because they're buying wholesale,
and they're able to pass.
They say everybody's happy with this deal.
The long-distance companies are happy because they're selling their long-distance.
We're happy because somehow we're making a profit, even though we're passing on these obscenely low rates to you.
And, of course, you're happy because, you know, you're paying obscenely low rates.
I don't know.
Let's check in in a couple of months and see who's happy.
I guess that's really the best way, eh?
Hmm.
Are you going to try it?
Uh, no.
I don't think I am.
You're going to stubbornly stick to your old ways.
Yep.
Not going to try a brand-new service.
Let's see if we can actually get through to these guys.
All right, we're going to try and reach them by dialing 1-0.
You don't have three-way, do you, on your ISDN line?
No, I don't.
Okay.
You don't have call waiting either on your ISDN line, do you?
No.
They haven't figured out how to put call waiting on ISDN?
Is that the deal?
No, it's not that.
Technically, you can't order it.
Uh-huh.
I just don't have any features as of yet.
Okay.
Well, hopefully you will soon.
Yeah.
Okay, we're going to dial 1-0-2-9-7.
Is that the carrier access code?
That's it.
All right.
Let's get a dial tone.
And then 1-700-555-4141.
Let's see what we get.
Thank you for using the dial-and-save long-distance network.
Wow, that was the whole thing.
What do you think of that little double ring there?
Yeah, that was pretty interesting.
That's pretty classy.
Now, if that's the kind of class we can expect from this company, I think they'll do well.
Double rings.
I like that.
It's very European, you know?
Anyway, I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know what to say about that.
We'll just have to see if they come through.
I'm going to try it.
I mean, you know, so what?
What's the worst that could happen?
You know, you get an obscenely high bill, you refuse to pay it.
They advertise something and they have to deliver on it.
Now, maybe their connections are awful.
Well, maybe that's the catch.
You know, it could be that.
Okay, let's take some more phone calls.
Good evening.
You're on Off the Hook.
Yes, two things.
The first thing is that I did get one of those letters, and I tried making a call to Jamaica.
And you have to use a code after you use the 10297.
You have to put in 011.
But that code did not work.
I actually contacted them, and they said to just try the 1 instead of the 011.
I tried it, and I spoke for less than a minute.
And now I'm waiting for my bill.
Now, when you say you have to dial, now, isn't Jamaica part of 809 area code?
809.
So you don't have to dial 011 for that.
Oh, well, according to it, if you're dialing an international line, you have to, you should dial 011.
Right, with the exception of the Caribbean and Canada.
Oh, I see.
Yeah, so.
So I'm waiting for the bill to come in.
Okay, well, let us know.
The next question I have, I'll just ask it, and I'll hang up to hear your reply.
What exactly is an ISCN, and what are the benefits, and what are the drawbacks?
ISCN?
Yeah, the gentleman you have on the line.
Okay, ISDN.
ISDN, sorry.
Okay, okay, we will explain that.
Okay.
Thanks for calling.
Fiber, you're going to explain it.
Sure.
In really simple terms, ISDN is a form of digital phone service.
It allows you to, at least in its simplest form, use voice and data simultaneously on a normal telephone line.
Which is what you're doing right now.
It's what I'm doing right now at the moment.
Right now, I'm talking to you, and at the same time, I'm logged into my local internet service provider, and I'm browsing around on the web, and so on and so forth.
And this is all simultaneously.
And I might add, it's a lot faster than any modem could ever be.
You're doing your laundry, too, right?
Yeah.
Just to give people an example of the speed.
Uh-huh.
Say, for example, you're using a 28.8 modem.
The fastest throughput you might get, say, if you were transferring a binary file, might be 3 to 3.5K a second.
Whereas on ISDN, I could get up to 8K a second.
And if I was using both of my channels for data at the same time, I could get up to 16K a second.
Wow.
That's incredible.
Any other benefits?
Well, you do have available to you a number of features that you wouldn't ordinarily be able to order if you just had a normal analog telephone line.
Like what?
Like, well, typically in the phone company, they reserve certain custom calling features for bigger business, Centrex customers.
But I could actually get what's known as ISDN supplementary services, which would include, among the normal features like call waiting and three-way and so on,
I would be able to order things like, you know, more Centrex-like features like call transferring and six-party conference calling and so on.
Six-party.
It would require that I purchase an ISDN digital telephone.
That's the only catch.
Okay.
And what do ISDN digital telephones go for these days?
Oh, they really range in price depending on what features they support.
They could be anywhere from, say, a couple hundred bucks on to maybe $1,000.
For a telephone?
Yeah.
Wow.
Well, I take it ISDN has not yet quite reached the popular stage.
No, not yet.
But I think it's extremely affordable right now.
Like I said earlier, my monthly ISDN phone bill would average to be not much more than your typical monthly cable bill.
And with the hardware that I have, which costs about $300 and change, that I have connected to my PC,
I'm just using a normal telephone that's plugged into my ISDN box.
And that ISDN box is connected both to the computer and to my ISDN telephone jack in the wall.
I see.
Well, hopefully if they do away with that silly per-minute charge, a lot more ISDN lines will be installed.
I think that's what's keeping a lot of people from being connected right now.
Perhaps.
But, I mean, if they could control their usage, in reality, if it's a penny a minute, it's pretty much $0.60 an hour.
So, I mean, it's not prohibitively expensive.
Right, but it's enough to stop people from really going crazy with ISDN and getting connected to the net and staying connected for a long period of time.
When you have something ticking all the time, it's just psychological.
Yeah.
So, it's better to pay a set fee and use it all you want.
That's true.
It works for, you know, local phone calls in many areas, so I don't see why it wouldn't work here.
Okay, let's see if we can squeeze in a couple more phone calls.
Oh, that's the one that doesn't work.
Okay, let's try this one.
Good evening.
You're on.
Go ahead.
Hello.
Yes.
About, oh, I think it was about a month ago, you had, you mentioned on the air an 800 number, which I think is supposed to be like a sex line for free sex.
Uh-huh.
And I tried it from a pay phone.
It would not go through, and you tried it from your station, from the station.
I suspect you've gotten billed for that call.
Well, I'm not sure.
What were we connected to again?
It was...
An 800 number where they said you could talk, you know, like free sex talk, something like that.
And you tried it from the station.
Right.
On the air, and it was not really porno, but, you know, like, you know, I'm hot, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And then I tried it from a pay phone and said your call cannot be, something like your call, your call, it's just something like your call cannot be completed from that number.
Well, no.
I suspect they're checking it against a database, and they found out it was a pay phone, and they wouldn't let the call go through, because you, on the other hand, maybe you wound up getting billed for it.
Do you know if you didn't get billed?
I'm not aware of any such bill coming in, but I suspect a number like that, in order to remain legal, would have to prompt you.
It certainly did.
Well, that's right.
If it did, if it did, that announcement, when you called from the station, we all would have heard it.
Right, and also they would have to accept, say, a credit card number.
This is what happened with the MCI call info charade, which faded away to one 900 call info.
So they were billing people directly without telling them, and, in fact, even if you do tell them, billing someone directly for an 800 call is wrong, as I'm sure a lot of people realize.
So I think it's not illegal.
It certainly is immoral.
So I don't know.
Now, during the last week or so, I saw a number on the Internet.
I doubt it was an Alt-2600.
It may have been.
And it said from, like, a wild, hot, sex-style, such-and-such number.
It was an 800 number.
Again, I tried it from a payphone just to see what would happen.
I couldn't get through on it.
Yeah, they can block certain 800 numbers from being reached from a payphone.
Now, why would they do that if it's legitimate?
Well, I don't know.
I mean, if you're going to bill it to a credit card, then I don't see any reason why it wouldn't.
Okay, here is a possibility.
I just thought of something.
Maybe it calls you back collect right afterwards.
All right, and it can't possibly.
Oh, that means you don't have to say ahead of time.
Right.
It can't possibly call a payphone back collect.
That's right.
Whereas it could call us back collect, perhaps.
You know, we generally have blocking here, so it might not know that right away, though.
But it would know a payphone.
Uh-huh.
So even the one that you called, it may have given you a small sample.
And then maybe it tried to call back collect.
Maybe it tried, yeah.
Uh-huh.
All righty.
Okay.
Okay.
It's nice to solve a problem now and then.
Farber, are you still there?
Yes, I am.
Okay.
We're going to try and take maybe two more phone calls.
Good evening.
You're on.
Hello.
Go ahead.
All right.
About the Exxon bill.
Uh-huh.
If you are on the line, online with someone, you cannot determine that person's age.
They might represent themselves as an adult.
That's true.
And if you send an electronic message saying that Exxon's full of S and doesn't know what the F he's talking about, you would then have to prove in court that you did not knowingly send an obscene private electronic mail message to a minor.
Yep, that's exactly it.
Another thing is that, from what I understand reading your news group, is that it is a fairly trivial task to forge an electronic mail address.
Is that true?
Oh, certainly.
Okay.
You could forge the electronic mail address, a minor could do this, of an adult, and you could send an obscene message to yourself with someone else's address and then turn that person in.
You could do almost anything.
Yeah, that's the marvel of technology.
You certainly could.
You could forge Senator Exxon's address.
Yeah, and turn him in.
That might be a way to solve everyone's problems.
That's all I had to say tonight.
Thank you.
Okay, thanks for calling.
Bye.
Some very good points.
Fiber, it's a trivial thing, isn't it?
Sure.
I'm not going to say any of us have done something like that, but it certainly is possible.
You've got to be careful.
This is the net.
You know, we're not talking about real face-to-face life here.
This is, you know, a bunch of zeros and ones going by.
Anything is possible.
Well, I'm willing to bet that Mr. Exxon himself has never even been on the net.
Probably not, and I hope he keeps it that way.
I just wish he'd stop trying to manipulate the net.
You know, the net's doing okay.
It's policing itself, and people of all ages, I think, are able to handle it.
And if they're not able to handle it, they don't.
You know, they leave.
Or they're excluded or something like that.
But it's really not something for the government to get involved in.
If any kind of control is going to be put on the net, it should be parental control.
And if that, you know, that's something that's an individual's decision,
whether or not they want to impose that kind of restriction.
Okay, we're out of time.
So we'll be back again next week.
We did not hear from Ed again, unfortunately.
But hopefully next week he'll be out.
You know, that would be nice.
It would be nice to think that.
But it doesn't look that way.
In fact, if anything, it looks like they're clamping down even more.
Hopefully we can give more information on all that.
There's things going on behind the scenes.
But we'll fill people in later on.
Friber, thanks for being with us.
Okay.
And we'll see you again next week, I guess.
Yep.
This is Off the Hook.
Emmanuel Goldstein will be back again next week at this time.
Probably saying goodbye at this time.
We'll be back again an hour earlier.
And stay tuned for the WBAI evening news coming up next here on WBAI New York.
Good night.
Now I can make a call.
It couldn't get much worse.
But if they could, they would.
Bumbedle Bump are the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood.
Bumbedle Bump!
Good evening.
In the news tonight, the UN warned Serbs to return Srebrenica to the Muslims as a safe haven.
Prayer could make a comeback in the public schools.
Operation Venona.
Did the CIA really have the goods on executed spies Julius and Ethel Rosenberg?
There's something very convenient about these documents.
Everybody is referred to in code.
And the CIA then provides you with a list of who the code people represent.
Well, they could plug anybody they want to into that list.
And the latest from Philadelphia as Mumia Abu-Jamal goes to court to seek a stay of execution and a new judge.
With these and other stories, I'm David Sears in New York with Verna Avery-Brown in Washington.
And this is the news for Wednesday, July 12, 1995.
First to Washington for the Pacifica National News.
Thousands of refugees have boarded buses to leave a former safe area of Bosnia, now taken over by the Bosnian Serbs.
Bosnia's president says it's virtually certain that Bosnia will ask the United Nations to leave when its mandate expires in November.
Meanwhile, the UN Security Council unanimously demanded the Bosnian Serbs withdrawal from safe havens.
Linda Fasulo has more from the UN.
By a vote of 15 to 0, Security Council members approved a measure authorizing Secretary General Boutras Boutras-Ghali to use all resources available to him.