And look at this, it's Wednesday night again, 10 o'clock, and that means
it's time for Off the Hook.
That's, uh, that's the way things are today.
Oh, here he is now, I think.
Bernie S., are you there?
Oh, yes.
It's that annoying woman.
Bernie S.
He's calling us from federal prison.
Let's accept the charges.
Please go ahead.
You are now connected.
Bernie S., welcome.
Good evening.
And how is life in prison tonight?
Well, it's as dreary as ever.
Yeah.
I'm hopeful that, uh, this will be my last week here.
Well, that would be great.
You know, I realize prison is very much like Las Vegas.
You know, you can never tell if it's daytime or nighttime or what time of the year it is,
and it's all pretty much the same.
But I'd rather be in Vegas.
Well, I don't know.
Uh, I guess that's true initially, but after a few weeks, months of it, uh, who knows what would happen.
Um, I realized when I was in Las Vegas, I didn't see a single cop.
Hmm.
Not one policeman.
And I realized, who would expect to see a cop in Vegas?
You know?
So many security people, anyway.
So now, has something changed with your case?
I mean, you're due to go on trial in about a week.
That's correct.
Uh, on September 8th, I'm scheduled to go to trial, uh, in Philadelphia, in federal court.
Uh, the day prior to that, September 7th, I am, uh, getting a bail hearing.
The government will, uh, ostensibly, uh, let me out on bail a day before my trial
after having been in prison for nearly six months without any, uh, being found guilty of anything.
But in any case, better, uh, better late than never.
Well, that's true.
Better, not at all, but, uh, it has to be.
Um, no, it doesn't make any sense to me either.
Yeah.
It's the way, uh, way to do things.
Unfortunately, my, uh, my bail, uh, uh, uh, uh, my, my chances of getting bail earlier
were thwarted by some, uh, false testimony that was given by, uh, someone who I'll say
is unnamed right now.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, uh, as a result, uh, I was considered, uh, both a risk of flight and a threat to the
community, neither of which I am.
But, uh, the government now realizes that, that I'm neither a threat nor a flight risk.
Yes, Bernie, as we all know, uh, the community, the entire northeastern, uh, corridor of the
country has been breathing so much easier since March when you were imprisoned.
And, uh, I mean, uh, we, you, you kept us living in terror over the past few years.
We all know what a, what a great risk you are.
Well.
Carrying around those, uh, those, you know, electronic devices in your pocket and, uh, and,
you know, dealing with, uh, you know, with chips and things like that.
And, uh, I don't know.
Oh, I, I just feel so much better.
Very scary stuff.
Yeah, it certainly is.
Yeah, you, you really should write a book about this when you get out.
I have already, uh, started taking notes.
Good.
Good.
There's a lot of things to take notes on in a place like that.
Yes, and lots of time to do it.
Yes, Fiber Optic is here.
Yes.
Hello, Fiber.
Hi, how are you, Ed?
I'm, uh, doing okay.
It's good to hear your voice.
Um, as you probably heard, uh, I'll, may only be here another week, but, um, I've learned after
being incarcerated for almost six months not to get my hopes up about anything.
Um, you know, you, you, you hear things and then your hopes get dashed.
So, I'm not getting my hopes up about anything and I'm just going to expect the worst and,
uh, then whatever happens, I won't be disappointed.
Yeah.
You've already lived the worst.
What, what else could you possibly expect?
The federal sentencing guidelines for the two statutes I'm charged with, if in the unlikely
event that I am found guilty, and I certainly hope I'm not, uh, are six to 12 months.
And, uh, the reason that they're, it's so low for a federal crime is because, uh, even
though it's under the fraud statutes, under the fraud statutes, you're, uh, you're sentencing
points.
You do it all on a point system.
It's pretty interesting how they calculate how long your sentence is.
But, uh, under the fraud statutes, uh, it varies depending on the dollar amount of the
fraud.
And, uh, the, uh, the U.S. Attorney's Office has already admitted that they have no, uh,
no evidence that I committed any fraud whatsoever.
They're, they're merely claiming that, uh, I could have committed fraud with hardware and
software that was in my possession.
So, uh, in, uh, in absence of, uh, any, any fraud dollar amount to, uh, to increase my
sentence amount, the most they can give me is a six to 12 month sentence, half of which
I've already served already.
So, um, I guess ostensibly if I'm convicted, it's a possibility that I would just get time
served.
But, um, uh, then I'd end up in a felony conviction, which I certainly prefer not to
have.
Right.
Of course not.
Well, it's, uh, it's, uh, a lot of different, uh, choices and gambles and things like that.
But, uh, keep in mind, these guys have to present a case against you.
Beyond a reasonable doubt.
And nothing we have seen.
Yeah.
I mean, if, if, if OJ can, uh, you know, can, can remain a reasonable doubt, certainly
someone, uh, in your position, uh, who has not even been accused of doing anything
wrong in the first place.
Um, well, they think what I've done is wrong.
Well, yeah.
Possession of technology, I guess they would think is wrong, but they still have to make
people believe that.
And so far, everybody that has heard about this case that I can see, uh, believes strongly
that, uh, this is a, a major injustice, but you'll be happy to know, uh, there's a film
coming out in the next couple of weeks.
Uh, I don't know if you've heard about this.
It's called Hackers.
I have heard about it.
And, uh, if you want to see the Secret Service portrayed in a, in a light that is not exactly
uh, flattering, uh, this, this is the film to go out and see for that particular reason.
But this is a, is this a documentary then?
Uh, no, it's not a documentary by any stretch of the imagination.
It's, uh, in fact, we found the book in the bookstore downtown under science fiction.
I don't know.
I don't know quite how accurate that was, but, uh, we actually, we took the liberty of hiring
two independent film reviewers who are in the studio, uh, with us today.
And, um, I guess, uh, why don't you introduce yourselves and tell us what you thought of
the film and, uh, answer any questions that Bernie S. might have from prison.
Hello.
Hi.
This is Zero Cool.
No, it's not.
All right.
Zero, I suppose you're a crash override.
Is that, is that, is that right?
Zero Cool and Acid Burn.
Uh, I had heard that, uh, uh, alleged, uh, red box tones, uh, were actually played through
the soundtrack of this, uh, of this movie.
Well, that's something that I thought was a big disappointment.
They changed it.
They were going to do that and they changed it with these ridiculous touch tone sounding
things.
However, they do tell you how easy it is to, to make a red box call.
You simply put in a quarter, record the sound of the quarter and then play that sound through
the phone.
You know, they, they do say that very clearly in the film, but they don't play the tones.
They play other tones.
I wonder if they were, uh, in any way pressured by, uh, I think they must've been, they must've
been pressured by somebody because it was in the script.
You know, they were going to do that.
I praised them saying, Hey, you know, you guys are smart for doing it this way, but,
uh, they didn't stick to it.
Is there a song being played, uh, on the radio lately too, that has these same tones?
Uh, I don't know if it's being played on the radio, but there is a song by a band that,
uh, that is doing that.
So.
Oh, you'll have to play it sometime.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I certainly will.
So guys, what'd you think of the film?
Um, I, I thought the film was entertaining and I think it was, uh, very amusing, but I think if
they had portrayed the hackers as ordinary type hackers instead of what Hollywood's image
of, uh, cyber dude was, uh, I think it would have come off as a really good serious movie.
Otherwise I think it was a fun movie, but it could have been a really good serious movie
if they had just done it a little, a little less style or a little less over style.
Yeah, well there was a lot of fashion statements and a lot of, uh, uh, uh, rollerblading and
things like that.
A lot of rollerblading.
A lot of rollerblading.
I didn't know, I didn't know we were so into rollerblading, but apparently we all are.
Yeah.
I mean, we, we all rollerbladed to the studio here, but I didn't think everybody did.
Yeah, well, we just started that after we saw the movie.
Uh-huh.
We, we, we, I felt as if I had to live up to the game.
Well, that's why they call you Zero Cool.
Zero Cool.
Because, uh, you have a lot of coolness to catch up on.
Um, any other comments?
Um, that's basically it.
How, uh, how realistic, uh, were some of the technical exploits portrayed in the movie?
How realistic were they?
Um, well, I'll leave that to you.
Uh, they hinted at things.
Some of the hints were realistic.
Actually, the premise of the movie, I think the, the movie had a good premise, and it actually
had a good plot, a good, a good story.
Um, the, the technical things were also, they had, you know, the premise was there.
The basic idea was there, but the, uh, the actual implementation of these things was,
uh, uh, very silly.
Yeah, it was, it was pretty silly.
In a way, I don't know if Hollywood has to be silly about these things, you know, to make,
you know, have a lot of graphical interfaces and, and, and things like that.
But the actual message that the film sends as to where hackers are coming from and how
they're perceived by law enforcement people, I think that was right on the line.
Yeah, yeah, I think that was actually pretty good, but it was, it was ruined for me by
the, by the silliness of the rest of the movie.
Uh-huh.
And the silly romantic subplot.
Oh, and the ending was awful.
The ending was awful.
I mean, I don't want to spoil it for people, but I mean, you, you might want to consider,
you know, how some people leave during the top of the ninth inning.
Well, in this particular film, it might be better.
It, it, it won't ruin the entire thing for you if you do it that way, because I thought
the ending was just god-awful as far as I can.
Yeah, leave while it's still good.
Yeah, but I mean, there were definitely good moments to it, and it was, uh, it was action-packed
for, to a large degree, and I think the average person, the proverbial average person out
there will get into this.
Yeah, I, I actually got into it when I was watching it, too.
Uh, some of the things, certain points, you, they're just so silly that you come out of
the whole mood, but it, it's easy to get into the mood.
To me, the best part of the whole thing were the actors.
The, uh, you know, the, the, the younger people who were playing the hackers, they got into
the roles really, uh, enthusiastically, and I think they play them very well.
Quick question, guys.
Um, if this movie were, uh, were released, uh, say today, uh, just prior to my trial,
um, and if the prospective jurors had seen the movie, do you think they would be in any
way influenced in, uh, in a trial setting, uh, after having seen the movie?
And, uh, or do you think they, they might have to recuse themselves for having seen a movie
named Hackers, uh, right before a hacker trial?
Well, you see, I mean, you, you're not even an active hacker in their definition.
You're someone that was simply, uh, um...
Experimenter.
Yeah, an experimenter, someone who had knowledge.
You weren't using it for anything.
You weren't involved in a plot, in some sort of adventure.
You know, you were just there, and you happened to, you know, to have access to equipment and,
and things that people can easily get.
So, I don't know if you'd even make the, the reach, seeing, you know, these people as equivalent
to what you are, but certainly if you were, if you were, uh, um, sympathetic to them,
uh, I'm sure they'd be sympathetic to you.
Well, well, that's good.
Well, in any case, it won't be, it won't be released before my trial, but we'll just have
to, maybe reality will be, uh, more interesting than the movie.
Well, the film will be released on September 15th.
I understand we're going to have some people that were involved in the film here in two
weeks, so that'll be, uh, that'll be kind of interesting, too.
I have to go, um, to give up this phone to another, uh, federal inmate.
Okay.
But, uh, I want to, uh, encourage anyone to stop down for my trial and the, uh, the hearing
the day before that at, uh, 6th and Market Streets in Philadelphia.
Uh, it's tentatively scheduled for 9 a.m. in the federal courthouse.
I don't know the courtroom number, but if you come in, you can ask the lobby, um, the
okay, and you can, you can check the internet, you can check the internet site for, uh, you
know, for updates on that, and, uh, we'll, we'll certainly tell people all about it, so.
And, uh, once again, thank you, everyone, for, uh, the cards and letters and magazines and
encouragement that I've gotten in the mail.
Um, by the way, was that email, uh, uh, package mailed to me?
I think it, it just went out or it's about to go out.
Okay.
So it's, uh, it's in that stage, so you should be getting that in a couple of days.
Letter or two from someone that was supposed to be in there.
Did you get that in there as well?
Uh, I believe so, yes.
Great.
I believe so.
Well, I gotta go?
If you can call us later, it'd be, be very, uh, there's a couple of interesting things
you need to know about.
Okay, I'll do that.
Okay.
Thanks, take care.
Take care, bye-bye.
That's, uh, Bernie S. calling us live from federal prison.
Not as nice a federal prison as you were in, Fiverr.
Yeah, I guess, uh, if you can call it nice.
Well, people didn't get stabbed in your prison, did they?
Uh, no.
I mean, there were fights, but, uh.
Verbally stabbed, but not really stabbed with, you know.
No, I never saw anyone punctured with any sharp objects.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, so, okay, um, you have some interesting, uh, information for us as far as, as far as,
um, I guess, another hole.
Uh, yeah, actually, it's, uh, two holes.
Two holes in, in, in Unix machines.
Yeah.
Within, uh, within, uh, about the past week or so, two, uh, two, two security holes on
the internet have come to light.
One of them is, uh, smaller one that affects a lot less people.
One of them is a really big, huge one.
Really?
And, um, the, uh, nature of the first one affects, uh, Solaris machines.
Solaris is a Unix operating system made by, uh, Sunsoft, which is Sun Microsystems, uh,
System 5 flavor of Unix.
Okay.
For, uh, Spark machines as well as, uh, Intel PCs.
The, uh, particular bug in question on Solaris involves that you already have access to the
machine.
And, uh, the bug is in the fact that the temp directory, slash TMP, is mistakenly set to
the permission 777, which is read, write, and execute for everyone.
When, in reality, the, uh, temp directory should be set to 1 7 7 7, which would say that anyone
could read or write files into temp, but you can only remove files if you're the owner.
Now, you say, is that a common mistake to make?
Uh, no, actually, uh, the permission should always be 1 7 7 7.
It, uh, it was apparently an oversight that the temp directory was, uh, mistakenly set when
you reboot the machine to the wrong value.
And the, uh, the easiest thing to do, simply, is, if you are the system administrator, is
to change the temp directory to 1 7 7 7 permissions.
I think a lot of, uh, system administrators see the temp directory as something harmless.
Yeah, they do.
Nothing can ever happen.
In, uh, in, uh, in reality, a lot of, uh, system programs that run with superuser permissions
use the temporary directory as scratch space.
And there are certain times and certain conditions under which someone would be able to exploit this
problem to obtain root access.
So, what someone does want to do is make sure the permissions are set to 1 7 7 7 and add
something to, uh, the code that gets executed when the machine boots up.
What are some of the programs that could be running that would, uh, run as root?
Uh, one particular one that I've heard of that, uh, someone would be able to exploit the,
the, uh, problem with is with the PS command.
Um, PS, uh, stores a file in the temp directory called PS underscore data.
And, uh, without giving out too much details under certain conditions, the, uh, under what's
known as a race condition, the, um, PS data would be affected where, um, someone would actually
be able to obtain root access because of the fact that they could overwrite information in
the temp directory that they're not the owner of.
Okay.
Now that's, uh, that's, that's the small buzz.
That's the small buzz.
Because that's easily fixed just by changing the permissions on the directory.
Right.
Now, here's the big, huge, whopping dangerous bug.
Before, before you go on, did you check our system?
Are we safe?
Oh, you don't, you're not running Solaris.
Oh, okay.
So we don't have to worry about that at all.
Yeah, this particular one only affected Solaris.
Okay.
But what is our temp directory set to?
Is it, is it, is it?
Uh, yeah, normally, normally a temp directory on most every system I've seen is in fact set to
1-7-7-7, so there's, there's no real problem there.
Now, uh, the big, the big, huge one, yeah, the whopping bug is, um, a, uh, a hacker organization
in England, which, uh, we've even reported upon in the, uh, in the past known as...
A hacker organization?
In England, known as 8LGM.
Is that like a misnomer there, or hacker organization?
Well, hacker affiliation.
All right.
What were they called?
8LGM.
Oh, yeah, okay.
Yeah, the eight-legged groove machine.
Right.
And, uh, they've, uh, they've been, uh, in the process of, uh, releasing the knowledge
of security bugs in various flavors of Unix to the internet on, uh, mailing lists as well
as on a website, and bringing, uh, security holes to people's attention over the past,
uh, couple of years, I guess, since most of them got busted by the feds in England.
Right.
But, um, anyways, a, yesterday, an alert went out saying that there was a problem with
the system logger.
And for those of, uh, the listeners out there that aren't familiar, on Unix systems, the
system logger is basically a process known as a daemon that runs, that logs various system
information to log files used by the system administrators in order to, uh, basically make
sure that the machine is operating the way it's supposed to, to log any kind of emergencies
that, that might take place, any kinds of problems with, with hardware or software that
might take place during the normal operation of the system, and, and so on and so forth.
Well, the problem happens to exist in a C function call, in the C language, known as syslog.
And what the syslog function call does, is, it communicates with the system logger daemon, in order to write
a log entry into the log of a particular facility and priority.
Now, the problem is that, as originally reported, the problem existed in SunOS, SunOS version 4.1 and
related SunOS's, which, uh, run on Spark workstations.
So, uh, what, what we embarked on doing, first of all, is, uh, we picked up some books about, uh, Spark
assembly language, and we attempted to narrow down the bug and actually get it to work within,
uh, the control of the machines that we were actually trying it on.
Now, um, the way the bug is basically exploited, is, syslog, through various functions that it
calls, writes a log entry of a fixed length.
Now the problem is that, if you write a program that calls syslog, and you define an array that's
bigger than this fixed length that syslog is expecting to write a log entry of that size,
you make your entry much bigger.
So in essence, what you end up doing is overwriting the stack frame, and actually get crap in
the stack frame from the previous function call, so that when the function that's currently
running returns from where it is, you can actually induce it to jump to a predetermined
location in memory where you have code waiting to be executed.
So, we actually succeeded in getting this to work in a controlled environment.
The way that it would ultimately be exploited is, um, through SendMail, incidentally.
Good old SendMail.
Yeah.
And it has nothing to do with SendMail itself.
It has to do with the fact that SendMail, the server, as well as many other system services,
call this syslog function.
And the only reason why SendMail is important is that SendMail gives you a connection to the
outside, which would allow you to enter in a variable length of text.
And in essence, what you would want to do is embed your assembly language instructions
in this text.
So what you would want to do is craft this text, or these garbage characters, in such
a way that you could, in essence, overflow the stack frame at some point within the syslog
call that SendMail does.
Because SendMail logs every time email is delivered or sent.
It's just a normal thing to do.
It logs who the mail was from, who it was to, and how long it was, as well as a message
ID.
What someone could do is actually embed these assembly language instructions within the message
ID of the header.
And in essence, would be able to get a root shell to come up on the screen while connected
to the SendMail port.
That would be in the worst-case scenario.
I see.
But I've just had a note handed to me that confirms that, let's see, that the bug actually
exists in all Unix operating systems derived from version 4 of BSD, which includes BSDI,
NetBSD, SunOS 4.1, and below.
And obviously it affects a lot of systems.
I would assume it also affects FreeBSD.
Yeah, that's correct.
What about Linux?
Uh, we haven't actually explored whether or not the problem exists on Linux.
We'll certainly find out and report if it's affected.
I did try the bug on Solaris, which is obviously a System 5-derived architecture, and the bug
did not work.
Really?
So it seems as if Solaris was safe from this particular threat.
So now, what do you recommend people do that are running systems?
Well, what people can do on, at least on people with source code, if they have public domain
versions of Unix, obviously if they have NetBSD or FreeBSD, what they can do is patch
the syslog.c, which is actually part of the libc.a library.
Okay.
If they patch the syslog function call, what they want to do is change a reference to a
function known as vSprintf to vNSprintf, that's the letter N.
Right.
What it does is that it does what's known as bounds checking.
You can actually tell the syslog function, which takes data and actually writes it into
a variable using a format string, which tells it how to write that data into the variable,
which in essence is how the format of the entry in the system log is derived.
If you switch the actual code to use vNSprintf, you can tell it, okay, specifically the buffer
should only be 2k long.
Okay.
If it's any more, then just like chop off the ends, we don't care what it is.
The problem is that it does assume the buffer is 2k long with vSprintf, only you write a
program that makes that buffer much longer, and in essence overflows the stack.
Ingenious.
It really is.
It is a rather involved bug.
It's not your run-of-the-mill bug, but it does affect a very large number of systems
on the internet.
So do you know if this bug has been exploited, or is it just a theoretical bug?
There's evidence that supposedly from 8LGM that they've actually done it.
It's obvious that it's certainly doable based on the evidence from the research that we've
been doing so far.
We've actually succeeded in, like I said, crafting a program that overflows the stack and causes
it to end up returning to our code waiting to be executed and actually runs a shell.
But I'm sure within the next day or two, we should have succeeded in getting it to work
with SendMail.
That's right, and we're going to try it on corporate America.
Right after the show, we're going to go out and try and see how many systems are vulnerable.
Actually, we don't have to do anything.
I'm sure hundreds of thousands of people right now are on the phone coordinating just such
a thing.
Yeah.
It almost makes you wish you weren't on a net at all, doesn't it?
Maybe the net should be just left for the hackers, you know?
Yeah.
Everybody else should just go someplace else.
But we'll see.
We'll see where it winds up.
Yeah.
Kind of neat.
Do you think it's going to make the papers?
It ought to make the papers.
You know, it's not one of those really simple hit-yourself-over-the-head kind of bugs like
the ones that they've reported about with SendMail in the recent past.
But obviously, it's a lot more involved bug, and it would involve you to craft the actual
code that you're going to use, which is, I guess you could call it your Trojan horse
in the message ID code.
It would involve you to craft that code with really careful attention being paid to what
operating system you're doing it on.
So it's not something where it would be really easy for someone to come out with a universal
recipe script that would be released to the internet at large on IRC or something
like that.
Right.
So while I do think it's a really, really big problem, I don't think there's any real
evidence that people are going to be running around rampantly doing this.
Okay.
Well, we'll just have to see, I guess, what happens.
But fascinating.
This shows you how many possibilities there are when you think everything is secure and
safe.
Something else like this pops up.
Yeah.
What fun.
Oh, thanks, Fiber, for stopping in and updating us on that.
You've been up for how many days now working on this?
Actually, I was up since yesterday until about this morning working on it.
Okay.
I finally got some sleep this afternoon.
Oh, that's good.
That's time to sleep, I say.
Okay.
We have some news from the New York Times.
Monday's edition, August 28th.
It seems people are confused by all the new area codes out there.
What a shame.
There's this diagram.
When dialing becomes a problem, the number of area codes in the United States, Canada, and
the Caribbean is being expanded.
A problem with this expansion is that telephone routing devices that many businesses, known
as private branch exchanges, or PBXs, understand only the old area codes with a zero or a one
as the middle digit.
After a user picks up a handset and dials, a signal is sent to the PBX computer in the
building.
The computer analyzes the call using four criteria.
If the number has four digits, the PBX assumes an internal call is being made.
This call is routed to a number in the customer's building.
That's wrong, actually.
It's based on the first digit.
I mean, if the first digit is nine, it's not going to just let you dial three more digits
and go internally.
Nine is going to say, this is an outgoing call, but we'll let the times get away with this.
If the number has seven digits, the PBX assumes a local call is being made.
This call is routed to the local phone carrier.
Again, that's wrong.
It should be eight digits, nine being the first digit.
If the number is zero plus ten digits, it should be nine plus zero plus ten digits, but
never mind.
The PBX assumes a credit card or collect call is being made.
This call is routed through the local carrier to a long-distance service.
If the number is one plus ten digits, the PBX assumes a long-distance call is being made.
This call is routed through the local carrier to a long-distance service, too.
If the customer's PBX does not recognize a new area code, the call will not leave the
building.
That's right.
It will be trapped inside the building and will never get out.
So there's this big thing where Connecticut is changing.
Most of Connecticut is changing to 860 and 203.
And some people are not very happy about that because it's not as easy to remember as 203 and
a lot of the machines are going to have trouble with it.
But you know what I say?
Reprogram the machines and just let's get on with life.
Because, you know, you can't make phone numbers where numbers don't exist.
We're stuck with a phone system here in this country where you can't really expand painlessly.
You know, other countries are a lot easier where you just have a variable length city code
and a variable length local number.
You can't just expand one particular area.
You have to change the numbers.
And it's a pain, yeah.
But what else are we going to do?
Do you have any suggestions?
Do you want to add a digit to the phone numbers?
I think it's going to be confusing enough as it is for most people.
Well, imagine you add a single digit, right?
You make them 8-digit phone numbers.
Okay, everybody in the country now, with a 7-digit number, you just add 4 to the beginning of your phone number.
You know?
That simple.
And that way everybody knows that, hey, I have to dial 4 before it is.
And the only time there's confusion is when there's a new number,
but then you see the full 8-digit number, so you know that 4 is not the first number.
I mean, if people want to complain about this and they don't like this system,
well, that's another system that might work.
But, you know, there's really nothing else you can do.
People should address their complaints to BELCOR, BEL Communications Research in New Jersey,
to the North American Numbering Plan Division.
Well, yeah, but they didn't invent numbers, you know.
There's only 10 digits.
No, but they invented the numbering plan.
Yeah, that's true.
They did.
They did.
But I don't know if they're about to change the numbering plan.
No, probably not.
You know, if they made area codes, okay, how about this?
Area codes.
Add an extra digit to them.
Okay?
Yeah, they'll say we did.
It's a 1.
No, no, no, no, no.
No, no, no.
You have 2-1-2, for instance, be 2-1-2-1, 2-1-2-2, 2-1-2-3.
You know, all those are area codes within 2-1-2.
Right.
You know, and you just add another digit after the area code,
and you make it a four-digit area code.
Yeah, but that would be quite a problem.
Why?
Everybody gets to keep 2-1-2 that way.
Yeah, but there's a few tens of thousands of switching systems across the country
that would need to be updated to that fact that all expect three-digit area codes.
Well, yeah, but you update them all.
You see, it's...
That would take a very long time.
Well, that's true.
But this is taking an equally long amount of time, and you have to keep doing it.
Yeah.
For each and every area code, you have to tell it something different.
And now you have to tell it that 0 and 1s are not necessarily the middle digits, so...
Right.
It's causing a lot of problems.
It seems that they expand things in moderation.
Obviously, ultimately, they will run out of area codes.
There's only so many three-digit codes you can use.
That's true.
And then they will have to expand it in a manner like that.
Even after this latest change, they're going to run out of area codes.
Yeah.
It's just...
It's hopeless.
Okay.
Our phone number is 212-279-3400.
Hopefully, you have a more optimistic outlook out there.
And let us know what's going on in your world and anything that we need to be updated on
or anything that you would like questions answered on.
212-279-3400.
Good evening.
You're on Off the Hook.
Hey, Emmanuel.
You're first again.
He did it again.
Hello.
How are you doing?
All right.
I just wanted to tell you a lot of quick things.
I noticed that AT&T has been advertising for their 1-800-C-A-L-L-A-T-T.
Know the code, right?
Oh, we know the code, all right.
Well, I'm sure they have this commercial where they say no two phones will give you the same
long-distance company.
Is that so?
Yeah, so they're talking about a call cut.
Right?
True.
Yeah.
But guess what some call cuts are doing?
What are they doing?
Some of them are blocking only the 1-800-C-A-L-L-A-T-T, or they're charging like a quarter or 50 cents
only to call that number.
That's nasty.
That's vindictive.
That's spiteful.
It's probably illegal, too.
Yeah, and you know, when I was in Massachusetts, outside Boston, like the 508 area code, the repair
service number is 555-1611.
Yeah, you've got us all in stunned silence with that one.
That's quite a revelation.
555-1611 is the repair number.
508 area code.
And do they get to charge you as if you're calling information?
Actually, if you call from New York, it charges you like 60 cents or whatever it is for information.
Uh-huh.
It thinks they're calling information, anything with a 555.
Right.
So, and in Pennsylvania, guess what the payphone's doing in some parts of New Jersey?
They, star six, seven, they have a little thing on their instruction card saying, if you
would like to block this number, dial star six, seven.
From a payphone.
You see here, payphones default to being blocked.
Oh, some of them don't.
But, but, um, actually this, I wish Bernie S was on, because I wanted to ask, maybe, I
don't know if you guys would know, why are the cellular phone antennas in cars that are
on top of cars, like, curly?
Why are the antennas curly?
Why are they curly?
Like, curly, and some of them are, like, straight.
Does anybody know the answer to that?
Why are they curly?
While you think of that, I want to tell you one more thing.
When I called repair...
I know they're short because of, of the, uh, the frequency, but, you know, it's actually
with a wavelength.
But I don't know if they're curly in them.
Yeah.
They're spirally.
But I just wanted to tell you that when I dialed 611 repair to report a payphone, a 9X payphone
that did not have an area, uh, a dial tone, rather, they said, well, did you put coins
in?
I said, no.
I, I pick up the phone, and there's no dial tone.
She said, well, you gotta put coins in before you get a dial tone.
This person's living back in the 60s, isn't she?
So it reminded me of the 10-cent first payphones.
And I went up to the deposit telephone company last week.
I drove up to, upstate to deposit telephone company.
Uh-huh.
And I, and I, you know, you put in a quarter, and it, uh, you know, actually, it's 10 cents up
there.
And also, uh, some long-distance companies let you bill to a cold card or a, um, charger
call phone.
Like, you'll dial 1-0-9-9-9, and then zero the area code and number.
And on some cold cards, this will sometimes work.
Some of them will let you bill right to the phone, that you'll just say, oh, bill this
call to the phone, I'm at, please?
I, I believe Zero Cool, our film critic, has an answer to one of your questions.
I have an answer, I believe I have an idea why cellular phone antennas, some of them
are, uh, curly.
I believe the curl is put in them to adjust the impedance of the antenna.
Depending on what frequency the phone operates at, uh, the maximum power transfer to the antenna
depends on the impedance, which depends on the inductance and capacitance of the antenna.
And, uh, depending on what frequency you're acting at, to get a short enough antenna, you
may have to curl it to adjust the impedance to provide the maximum power transfer to the antenna.
Oh, that's a good guess.
No, this is based on years of experience with, uh, electromagnetic theory.
Uh-huh.
All right.
Yes.
All right.
But it is just a theory.
I'm pretty sure.
All right.
If I were to adjust the impedance of an antenna, I'd curl it.
Well, what we can do is we can go downtown later and curl some antennas some more and
see if that affects the phone calls being made for them.
It would.
It would.
Okay, then we can watch the reaction of people as they try to make phone calls.
Great.
Okay.
Well, we'll do a little experiment later.
And did you ever get a call that did not appear on a phone bill?
Huh?
Get a call that did not appear on a phone bill?
Or make a call?
In other words, you made a phone call.
And, and it seems that, it seems amazing that, that, like, sometimes 9X, like, forgets
to bill you, like, for, like, a toll call or, or, like, a...
Well, I think maybe they wind up billing the wrong person.
No, no.
You make a, um, I'll give you an example.
You make a call, and I made a time and charges call from my phone.
I got zero the area code and number, asked for time and charges, and I got the time and
charges.
When I got my bill, I did not get an operator-assisted call.
Did you get any bill at all?
No, I got a bill, but I didn't get a bill, uh, that call on my bill.
Really?
I recorded the number and the time and everything else.
Sometimes they show up later, or sometimes they get misdirected to another place, but
I doubt they, they ever disappear entirely.
I waited two months, two billing cycles.
It still hasn't appeared.
Really?
Well, maybe it just won't appear on your bill, but it will appear on someone else's.
Because I've gotten bills, you know, with calls on them that, uh, shouldn't be there.
So, it's, it's possible it works the other way sometimes.
All right, we're going to move on.
Thanks for the calls.
Uh, you know, actually, Faber, you learned something this week.
I don't know if you remember learning this, but, uh, you learned the advantage of
a short, um, uh, calling card number that, uh, of the kind that AT&T offers.
Yeah.
You want to explain, first of all, what those are?
Yeah, it's the, uh, the True Savings, True Voice calling cards.
They're actually, uh, slightly shorter than 14 digits.
You get to, what, pick a word or something?
Is that how they work?
Yeah, you can pick a word if you like.
Uh, you know, obviously a word that spells out something on the keypad.
Right.
So, instead of being 14 digits, your code is, is how long?
It's, uh, I think it's 12 or 13, actually.
12 or 13.
Okay, we got that information.
I didn't, I didn't pick a word.
All right, fiber optics code is 12 or 13 digits.
All right.
And, uh, do you remember what any of those digits are?
Uh, yeah, actually I do.
Okay, well, never mind that.
So, why is that an advantage?
It's an advantage simply because, uh, I was at a payphone, which, uh, was clearly marked
as a 9x payphone.
It was clearly marked that the default long distance company was AT&T.
I picked up the phone and dialed zero plus.
I, uh, got the little bing bong.
Yeah, but you didn't listen for the AT&T lady, did you?
I neglected to listen for the AT&T lady and, uh, started entering in, uh, my calling card
number and, uh, I paused and, uh, it said that my, uh, calling card number was invalid.
But, uh, and, uh, obviously it's not.
So, uh, and I proceeded to, uh, hit, uh, zero and, uh, lo and behold, I got some, uh, some
scummy long distance company, even though the, uh, phone said AT&T on it and it was a
9x phone.
Right.
So, uh.
Well, those little labels on the phones don't really mean anything.
Yeah, well.
They can put whatever they want on those.
That's true, but it is a 9x phone.
Right.
You'd think that there was, uh, some, some semblance of quality involved.
Well, not every 9x, no, actually that's not true at all because, uh, you can have
a 9x phone, but it's up to the person owning the establishment to pick a long distance carrier
only for zero plus calls.
Right.
I suppose.
Yeah.
OnePlus, I believe, still goes over AT&T.
I don't know if that, is that going to last forever?
Uh.
OnePlus with pay phones?
I don't know.
I would think that they should be able to, uh, send it over someone besides AT&T without
any problem at all.
Except that they have to worry about collecting coins, which is, uh.
Oh, right.
Exactly.
Yeah.
That's the reason why.
Yeah.
Only AT&T obviously can, uh, can actually collect coins as it stands.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, uh, they can, they're the only ones that can verify.
They're the only ones that can collect coins.
Yeah.
It's kind of weird.
But, uh, yeah, so that's an advantage because your, uh, calling card number was of an irregular
length.
The other companies didn't recognize it because it didn't fit their criteria.
Right.
And they're, they're assuming that it's 14 digits.
Right.
And only AT&T will accept your calling card.
Right.
So, uh, well, that's, uh, that's, I guess, an advantage if you like AT&T.
That's another advantage of true savings.
All right.
Let's move on.
Good evening, Eron.
Go ahead.
Hello, uh, let me turn my radio down here.
Uh, hello?
Yes, go ahead.
Uh, I got a little problem here.
Uh, here we go.
Uh, concerning, uh, pay phones, I was getting calls from a certain person with a certain pay
phone, and, uh, one of the, uh, the accolades would come up to collect the money.
It would give me, uh, an MF tone, like a two.
Uh, right.
That's known as a green box tone.
Yeah, it's been nicknamed green box tone, sure.
Is that, is that indicative of something coming from, like, a 1A?
Uh, no, it's indicative of all coin phones, uh, only normally you can't hear the tones.
They're filtered out.
It's coin collect and coin return.
Yeah, coin return is KP, and coin collect is an MF2.
But, you know, I've heard different ones.
I've heard, when someone hangs up, I've heard a much higher pitched one than I usually hear.
Star.
I'm not sure what, no, it wasn't a star.
Like that?
No, that, that's KP.
That's not a star.
That's coin return.
But on some phones, I've heard, I've heard different ones.
Start on some pay phones.
This pay phone is, uh, down in, uh, East Brunswick, uh, NPA908 Exchange A985.
Well, we don't know it by heart, but, uh, yes, we believe you.
All right.
Uh, question about ISDN.
Now, is that like the native form, the native data form for the digital switches communicating
to, uh, with each other over, like, fiber optic trunks as opposed to copper?
Well, uh, most of the trunks aren't yet fiber optic, but, uh, the, uh, actually the native
form that switches communicate with each other over is signaling system seven.
The actual data carried over these trunks, the signaling information, as well as, uh, to
a larger and larger degree, the voice and data in, uh, digital form over separate trunks
is carried as, uh, ISDN user part, which is a particular type of information sent over
the SS7 network.
So, uh, yeah, and, uh, I guess you could say that, uh, your assumption is correct, that
more and more information is being carried over the, uh, the telephone network as if it
were integrated services digital network, which is the whole point of ISDN.
Another thing, uh, a while back, this is, uh, from New Jersey Bell phone book, it's like,
uh, 87 or 88, there were these series of phone numbers called WX.
Have you heard of those?
WX, is that like a, uh, like an enterprise or a Zenith number?
Were they toll-free or something?
Uh, yeah, they were like, WX calls are toll-free, that's all I remember, it was only six digits as
opposed to seven.
You couldn't dot them yourself, you had to get an operator to do it for you, right?
Uh, that I don't remember.
Yeah, that, those were part of, uh, of an old toll-free system.
Zenith numbers, enterprise numbers, and I guess WX numbers as well.
Uh, I think it predated 800.
All right.
There might even be a few that still exist for all I know, but I, I kind of doubt it.
Oh, a while back, and, uh, I came across an old New Jersey, Phil, uh, New Jersey Bell
Pay, uh, phone book, and I had seen that in there, and it's like, oh, what are these?
Yeah.
Ask you.
All right, thank you very much.
Okay, thanks for calling.
If, you know, if you have, find an operator that says you've got to put a quarter in to
get a dial tone, I'm sure she'll know all about enterprise numbers.
Probably thinks they still exist, too.
Good evening, you're, whoops.
Good evening, you're off the hook.
Hello, you okay?
Yes, good evening.
Yes, how are you?
Fine, thanks.
I have two little tidbits of general interest, uh, based upon the themes you've gone over
in the past.
Well, we live for tidbits, so go right ahead.
Oh, yeah, well, you're all quite prophetic in, uh, the elimination of the surcharge for,
um, uh, for the phone company to ignore the touchtone, uh, signal, which is inherent
in it.
Um, that's right.
I just tested it out about a month ago, and I refused to pay, you know, for the touchtone,
and everybody out there, you now have touchtone.
And I think it's supposed to go into effect officially, uh, September the 1st.
Right, but I think everybody for the past few weeks has had it for free, so yes, if
you have, if you haven't been paying for your touchtone fee, you can now use touchtones
with, in, in, in, in, in, impunity.
Hooray, and, uh, and the return for that that we pay for is they can seek, seek the
sky's the limit on other services.
Like paying for gold numbers, paying for unlisted service, and things like that, but, uh, one
battle at a time.
Right, um, and the other thing, uh, regarding slamming, uh, there was an article on Newsday,
the August 15th, I don't know whether you caught it, uh, the Newsday edition in Long
Island, because I think it's gone in Manhattan, uh, about slamming, uh, 25 states, uh, want
regulators to give Americans, uh, greater protection from slamming.
They want the FCC to change the rules, uh, so that liability for the slamming, uh, lies
with the company doing the slamming, uh, not the consumer.
And, uh, therefore, the local company, which would be 9X here, would remove the charge
and charge it to the slammer.
I don't know whether you saw that.
I, I heard about it.
I didn't see that particular article.
Yeah, but I don't, there is no federal legislation to this, to the, right, right now.
I didn't know that.
It's up to the states.
Yeah, I mean, it seems like it should be something that's, uh, uniform nationwide, because we're
talking about long-distance companies that cross state lines, so it's...
Exactly.
I mean, it falls within their purview.
It's interstate, uh, mails, phone, whatever.
Okay, I won't keep you, but, uh, thanks for the information in general, and I'll be listening.
Okay, thanks for calling.
I accidentally slammed myself.
Uh, no, really, I did.
I don't know if it really, you know, falls under the definition of slamming, but, uh,
I changed a long-distance company on one of my phone lines because, you know, they sent
me this nice big check, you know?
They sent me a check for, like, $1,000 to change my long-distance company.
Well, maybe that's a bit much, but a lot of money, you know, a lot more money than you'd
think that you're worth, like $75 or something crazy like that, you know?
To, to change your long-distance company, it's, you know, I, I didn't even make long-distance
calls on that line.
That was the funny thing.
So I said, sure, I'll do that, and I, I deposited the check, and, of course, that means my, my
long-distance company gets changed, and I, I changed it, I think it was from MCI to AT&T.
So AT&T sent me this check, and, you know, I deposited it.
So, I found out that my MCI calling card stopped working the moment I did that.
You know, you can't use an MCI calling card once you change your long-distance company on
the line that it's assigned to.
Is that something?
Hmm.
They, they don't want any part of you.
If you don't want them as your one-plus, they want nothing to do with you, and they'll
just cancel the card outright.
Wow.
So, uh, that's, uh, that's something you might want to consider.
Whereas AT&T, you know, you, you don't even have to have a phone to use an AT&T calling
card.
That's true.
So that's, uh, that's kind of, kind of interesting there.
Different philosophies, I guess.
Good evening, you're on.
Yes.
Hi, Emanuel.
Hi, Fiber.
Hi.
Um, last week you were talking about the, uh, Call 54 service.
Yes, right.
I have another number if you're interested in, uh, giving it a try.
Oh, okay, great.
Uh, so you can three-way us, in other words.
Sure, no problem.
Uh, okay.
You're talking about the, uh, what's, what's the exact number again?
5-5-5-5-4-5-4.
And unfortunately, it's only accessible in, uh, New Jersey.
Right.
All right, let's see.
What, uh, what number shall we look up?
Well, actually, I have three numbers.
One's unlisted, one's a pay phone, and one actually belongs to my cable company.
So I figured...
Great.
...I'd be able to use those three.
They're all in New Jersey.
All right, why don't you, uh, do all the dialing and just walk us through it while you're doing it.
All right, hold on a sec.
Okay.
Now, this is an example of listener participation.
Here we go.
Welcome to Bell Atlantic's Call 64 service.
For tips on using a service, press pound now.
Please enter a 10-digit telephone number, including area code, now.
Okay, so the first number is going to be my cable company.
Number 9-7-6-7-4-0 is listed to...
Order Cable.
The address is...
73 Rock Avenue, Plainfield, 07063.
To replay the listing, press 1.
To spell the name, press 2.
To spell the address, press 3.
To request a new listing, press 5.
Now, it's actually listed as Comcast Cable, but I guess you can't be picky with this.
Uh, next is a pay phone, which wouldn't be listed at all.
Please enter a 10-digit telephone number, including area code, now.
Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep.
The number is nine, two, three, three, three, four, five.
It's not listed.
Please enter a 10-digit telephone number, including area code, now.
Okay, for those that couldn't hear, it said that was not listed.
Yeah, hold on.
And this is an unlisted number.
Okay, let's try this.
At the customer's request, listing information for the number is 908.
We'll turn that down so that everybody doesn't know about that.
877-377 is not available through this service.
Call 54 service allows telephone number requests per call.
For additional requests, please hang up and call again.
Okay, that was very interesting.
Yes, and for now, until October 1st, it's free for New Jersey Bell customers.
After that, it'll be 50 cents for up to three numbers per call.
Uh-huh.
It's still a better deal than information, actually.
Well, actually, I'm kind of abusing it right now.
I get to go through my phone book and check out all the addresses.
As long as it's free, you might as well, right?
Yeah, that's true.
That's true.
Okay, well, thanks very much for demonstrating that to us.
No problem.
Thanks a lot.
All right.
Take care.
That's a demonstration of the new service over there in New Jersey
that allows you to look up people by their phone numbers,
get their addresses and their names, and hopefully that's it.
But it's certainly a start to getting more information.
Not necessarily anything new.
This information has always been available through calls directories,
through CD-ROMs, through various other methods,
but it's a lot more accessible now.
It's too bad our phone system is so terrible that it sounded so bad,
but that's just the way it is around here.
All right.
Let's take another phone call.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hello.
Go ahead.
Okay.
I'm checking out long-distance carriers these days
to see what the best deals are available.
I've gone through all the majors that are available,
AT&T, Sprint, NCI, WorldCom, cable and wireless working assets,
and I'm wondering if you guys know of any that I haven't
or don't know about that I should check.
Well, there's that one, that long-distance savings club or whatever.
Has anyone gotten the bill for them yet?
You know, the one where they say dial the five digits
before your phone number?
Oh, the one where your dialing instructions have changed?
Your dialing instructions have changed.
I got another one of those letters today.
Another one?
Really?
There's actually two carriers that tell you to do that now,
that tell you to dial the five digits beforehand,
and that's how you make cheap long-distance calls.
But again, you know, while their advertising techniques may be a bit slimy,
are the rates actually lower?
Do you remember what the carrier access code was for that?
Uh, I think one of them might have been, uh, two...
I'm thinking 10297 or something.
Yeah, it was something like that.
Okay.
What are the two companies that you're talking about?
Uh, one is called the Long Distance Savings Club, I believe.
Okay, and the other one?
I don't know, but I just heard about it.
You'll know when your dialing instructions change.
I think it's 10297.
You can't change to it, but you can, you can, uh, pretty much...
Use it?
Yeah.
Use it through an access code?
How would I find out about it, though?
Uh, I think everybody in the country got a letter.
Yeah.
You didn't get a letter?
Mm-hmm.
Not to mind.
Not that I can think of.
Uh.
What about GTI Telecom?
Is that one that's available?
GTI Telecom?
I've heard of GTE.
I've never heard of GTI.
No, GTI.
Well, I suggest you try these companies and let us know, you know, how they are.
Okay, well, the only one that I haven't tried that you just mentioned that I don't know about,
I will try now, is called, apparently, Long Distance Savings Club.
You might want to try 800 Information.
Maybe they'll have a phone number for them.
Okay, thank you much.
Okay.
You had a question?
Yeah, was, uh, isn't, is AllNet still around?
1-0-4-4-4.
Yeah.
Yes.
Oh, he didn't mention them.
That's true.
He said, uh, World...
WorldCom.
What, what, what, what?
That's Wiltel.
Oh, is that what that is?
Yeah, Wiltel became LDDS WorldCom.
They have an identity problem, don't they?
Yeah.
Those people.
Oh, they have no problem identifying us in the interstate phone calls with their interstate caller ID there,
but, uh, okay, so I think that's, that's pretty much all of them.
Good evening.
You're on.
Uh, good evening.
I want to know if, uh, anybody has any information about, uh, a report that was published in the New York Times, uh, last week about a, uh, hacker that was caught in, um, who was caught in, uh, Great Britain.
He was supposed, he was from Russia, and he was supposed to have hacked a, uh, Citibank, uh, the Citibank, uh, computer and, uh, transferred funds around the world.
Well, these were the guys that were stealing money, right?
Yes.
They were funneling money out of an account.
Right.
And, uh, they don't, uh, they don't, the report didn't say much about what was going on except that the government, the U.S. government wanted to extract the, uh, man to the U.S.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
Yeah, I mean, I read the same story you did, uh, and I don't really know anything more about the case.
Uh, we, we, we don't know these people because I guess they're, they're kind of like involved in banks and things like that.
And, uh, I would imagine you would need to know something about the, the actual, you know, 99% of these cases, uh, they're ex-employees of the bank.
They're people that have had some sort of insider knowledge.
Yeah, yeah, I, I, I realized that because I, I, I thought, uh, banks had a, employed, uh, extra security and, uh, plus a DES card, uh, which self-destructs it.
So, someone outside of the bank tries to, uh, get access to it.
Uh-huh.
Uh, and, um, well, that's why I called.
Yeah, I mean, I haven't heard anything else about this, uh, but, you know, we're keeping our ears open.
If we hear something, we'll report it here.
Okay, thank you.
Bye-bye.
All right, take care.
I don't know, this, uh, this bank thing, it's not, it's not a good thing for hackers to be associated with.
No.
I don't think we really are associated with it, but, of course, anybody that sees, sees us on the news, they consider, they consider them to be hackers.
Anytime a computer is involved.
Good evening, you're on.
Yeah, I have a, a question here about, uh, status of, of local, um, telephone competition for local calls.
Um, when is, when and if that's going to happen, um, I had this strange experience recently, I had a phone disconnected.
And, uh, my friend was able to hook another phone to the same jack and make local calls using a local calling card that they sell in a neighborhood.
Okay.
Have you heard of this?
Well, I mean, if you're, if, if you don't pay your phone bill, generally, what happens is your line gets restricted to local only.
Local and 800.
What your friend probably did was plug into the same phone line and just make an 800 call using one of those, uh, prepaid calling cards.
Well, what it is, is I had my phone disconnected.
Uh-huh.
Like, I wasn't negligent.
Like, I wasn't, I didn't owe them any money.
Okay, well, lots of times when you have your phone disconnected, they keep the line there.
Right.
But you can only make 800 calls, not even local calls.
You can just make 800s.
But he, he was making local calls with this, they sell them in these bodegas.
They're like these little cardboard cards.
Right.
Yeah, we know about those.
And, uh, but this was local.
Well, I mean, if you dial an A&I identifier or an ANAC number, you can find out what the phone number was that he was calling from, see if it was your number.
Oh, no, I know it was my apartment.
Yeah, but was it your phone number?
Um, no, there's no phone number for that phone.
There has to be a phone number.
There's definitely a phone number.
Yeah.
Really?
Where are you located?
What, what area?
Uh, Westchester.
Okay, what you want to do is, is this line still existing?
Uh, yeah.
Okay, just go to the phone number, or phone line, dial either 958 or, was it 990 up there?
Not, well, do you mean the area code?
914.
No, no, no, just, uh, a three-digit code.
I'll tell you what, dial this instead.
Oh, you mean on your phone bill?
Yeah.
No, just dial this number and it'll tell you what your phone number is.
All right, and if 958 or 990 don't work, dial this number, 1-800.
You there?
Mm-hmm.
Okay, my A-N-I is, M-Y-A-N-I-I-S.
M-Y-A-N-I-I-S.
I-S.
And that will tell you what your phone number is.
Once you know that, you'll know what's going on.
Right, but do you mean they would assign a phone number to that phone?
Obviously, it's a phone.
You know, the question is, whose phone is it?
Is it your phone?
Is it someone else's phone?
Well, you can't make a regular call.
You can't make a regular, um, it's very strange.
You have to have a calling card.
Also...
Yeah, it's a restricted line, but it still belongs to somebody.
That's weird, because I have disconnected.
Well, you see, 99% of the time, and I've noticed this every time I've moved into a new place,
or it helps somebody move into a new place,
when you plug a phone into what's supposed to be a dead jack, there's a phone line there.
So now they do this in case of an emergency, or something?
I don't know why.
Sometimes they do it for that reason.
Sometimes they just mess up, and they run someone else's line through a vacant apartment.
You know, when you find out the phone number, call the line and see who answers.
Also, one quick question here about the...
What do you do about the wire maintenance charges on your bill?
What's the option?
Don't you have an option if you can decide whether you want to pay for the charge monthly,
or whether you are no longer going to have the maintenance charge,
so that if there's a problem, you have to...
Well, it's basically an option if you want to pay for nothing, right?
Well, no.
Actually, the wire maintenance charge ensures your in-house wiring,
where, basically, if there's any problems with the wiring inside your house,
you would have already been paying to insure that,
and you wouldn't incur any extra cost if they're forced to come and repair the wiring in your apartment.
How common is that?
Not very common, and you're perfectly welcome to cancel the service.
Right.
It generally doesn't pay off from the vast majority of cases.
Well, don't think about it, though.
Also, one thing...
All right, last thing. We're out of time.
Okay.
Go ahead.
Oh, um, when the phone company raised the payphone rate from a dime to a quarter,
how'd they get away with it?
How'd they get away with that 250%...
Actually, no, 150% rate increase.
I don't know.
They just did, but up in Boston, it's still 10 cents, isn't it?
It blows my mind.
They didn't just go to 15 cents.
I mean, they could have figured, well, if people are going to have quarters,
we're still going to make money.
Well, they did it as a favor to us,
because they knew that there was this coin called a quarter,
and they didn't want us to be fumbling around for a dime and a nickel, you know?
Well, people would just resign themselves to, okay, you know, well,
I'll have to pay a quarter for this call.
I mean, people do it all the time when they have to...
They only need 40 cents and they only have two quarters.
I mean, people aren't...
They really need to make a call.
They're not going to squabble over 10 cents.
True.
Anyway, that's it.
Okay, well, thanks for calling.
I guess that's an issue that's a few years too late,
but still one that means a lot to some people anyway.
Okay, we'll be back again next week with another fun-filled show
as far as what's happening with, I guess, the Unix bug
and the upcoming movie hackers, the Bernie S. case.
We'll have some more information on that next week as well.
Until then, take care of yourselves.
Stay tuned for the WBAI Evening News.
Good night.
The telephone keeps ringing
So I ripped it off the wall
I cut myself while shaving
Now I can't make a call
It couldn't get much worse
But if they could, they would
Bombing me bomb for the best expect for worst
I hope that's understood
Bombing me bow
Ba-baba-baba-baba
Oh boy