It's 99.5% all-natural and preservative-free. WBAI-FM in New York.
I love this radio station.
And this is the sound you could hear if you don't call 279-3400 to support us.
It's off-the-hook time.
Wednesday night, 10 p.m.
This is the last edition of Off the Hook to Air in this time zone.
Or time slot, or whatever.
Whatever you want to call it.
So I figured we'd start off on kind of a solemn note.
And just drive home the point that we need support here at the radio station.
We need your help.
And we need you to be out there, listening, contributing, giving us information, giving us things to talk about.
And now, for the last time, on Wednesday night at 10 o'clock, it's the Off the Hook theme song.
Are things a little slow for you on Friday night?
Are things a little slow for us here Wednesday nights?
I hit the wrong button.
Okay, I'm sorry.
And now, for the last time, on Wednesday nights, it's the Off the Hook theme.
The telephone keeps ringing
So I ripped it off the wall
I cut myself while shaving
Now I can't make a call
It couldn't get much worse
But if I could, they would
Bumbly Bump
But I best expect the worst
I hope that's understood
Bumbly Bump!
Bumbly Bump!
Ah, yes, the friendly dial tone.
The sound that you always hear when you pick up the phone.
Imagine, fiber optic, what would it be like if you picked up the phone and you didn't hear that familiar sound?
What would it be like?
You wouldn't know what to do.
You wouldn't know how to use your phone or anything.
It would be sad.
It would be scary.
It would be horrible.
It would be horrible.
In much the same way that it would be horrible if you tuned to 99.5 and heard, not BAI,
but either silence or some strange commercial sound.
Or someone else's dial tone.
It scares me.
Are you making a joke here?
Well, yes, you could hear all kinds of things.
You know, there was a station up in Connecticut that aired weather forecast for 24 hours a day
until they figured out what their format was going to be.
They did this for about six months.
So, yeah, strange things happen when stations change hands.
Fortunately, that kind of thing doesn't happen here at BAI.
So, this is our last fundraiser here, last Wednesday night of fundraising during this marathon.
And it's also our last show at this particular time slot because next week we are moving to 8 p.m. on Tuesdays.
So, that's something that people should note, write down, because you probably will forget.
I hope I don't.
And tell your friends and loved ones and just spread it around everywhere.
Paint it on the side of buildings, if you must.
Or send anonymous e-mail to people telling them that the show is moving.
Just get the word out one way or another.
Because, you know, we've built up quite an audience here Wednesday nights at 10 p.m.
We're going to have to start from scratch again Tuesday nights unless everybody moves over with us.
And next week we have a special two-hour pilot that we're going to be airing to draw in the maximum number of people.
It's going to be fun-filled and adventures and things like that.
You're going to be able to make it, I hope.
Oh, yeah, sure.
Good.
Okay.
All right.
What's with these tariffs here?
You want to explain?
New rates.
There's slashing prices left and right.
There's new, well, they call them New York telephone tariffs.
But there is no more New York telephone.
No, it's kind of funny.
It almost looks like an indictment.
It says, for New York telephone company, which does business under the name 9X.
Yeah, it does sound like an indictment.
But they're not being indicted, are they?
No, no, not at all.
In fact, they're slashing their rates.
And let's see.
Is slashing really the operative?
Well, maybe not slashing.
Mildly reducing.
Uh-huh.
How about that?
They're cutting off some pennies here and there, and in some cases, even a couple of dollars
here and there for a flat rate, for example.
They're cutting down by a couple of bucks.
Touch tone will be free, as it was always meant to be.
They're cutting the cost slightly in some of the custom calling feature packages.
Let's see here.
They're cutting the cost on the tariff for making calls with your 950 codes.
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
They say 950 in there?
No, they call it feature group B.
But I'm interpreting for the listeners.
Okay, what kind of cost is there now?
Okay, for interlata feature group B calls, the access minute for each minute is .0202 cents
day, .0172 evening, and .0141 nightly.
Then for interlata, within the latta, feature group B, this goes for C and D, too, by the
way.
It's .0166 for day, .01000 for evening, and .0058 for nighttime.
So, that's incredible.
That's how much they charge for that.
Yeah, if you wanted to use your 950 code within the latta, and you call that nighttime, then
it would be half a cent.
Oh, that's a good deal, I guess.
Yeah, half a cent a minute.
Uh-huh.
Because I use 950s quite a bit, and I've never seen those numbers before.
I wasn't aware that they charge those particular numbers.
Well, they probably charge you more than that, and blame it on 9X for making the tariff too
high.
Yeah.
But now they have no excuse.
The other thing people should be aware of, which I've actually noticed on the street
that wasn't really explained, 9X just sort of did it, was...
You used to get, for 25 cents at a payphone, you used to be able to place a five-minute
call.
That's right.
But now you can only place a three-minute call for 25 cents.
That's sort of like the way they phased out free directory assistance.
Yeah.
It used to get unlimited, and then it used to be, I think, five per month, and it was three
per month, and it was one per month, and then it was none.
But now, though, I also read, at the same time they're giving you less time for a quarter,
they're claiming that you have a far-reaching callability for a quarter.
You can actually reach anywhere within the latter for a quarter, which was not true before.
Anywhere within the latter?
Anywhere within the latter for a quarter.
You're telling me that from New York City I can call Suffolk County?
For a quarter, for three minutes.
Let me see that.
No, it's not in here.
That's just what I read.
Where'd you read that?
I believe it was in the insert with the phone bill.
That's, if that is true, that is really good.
That's why I don't think it's true.
That's what they were claiming.
Whether they're actually going to do this, I don't know.
Well, if they claim something like that, they sort of have to do it.
Yeah.
At the same time, they said they were reducing it to three minutes from five for a quarter.
They said you'll actually be able to reach anywhere in the latter for a quarter.
So the latter extends from Montauk Point.
From the tip of Long Island.
Okay.
Up past, through Nassau County, up through Manhattan, even through in Staten Island.
Right.
And up into Westchester, right?
Yeah.
And Rockland, too.
Yeah.
Rockland and Putnam.
So I could be standing by the Montauk Lighthouse.
I can put a quarter into a pay phone.
Right.
And I can call somebody in Rockland County.
In theory.
In theory.
In theory, yeah.
That is something.
And for how long?
For three minutes or one minute?
For three minutes or a quarter, yeah.
All right.
Well, if that is true, that is a good sign.
That is a sign that more realistic phone rates are starting to take effect.
Because right now, if you make a one-minute phone call from New York to California or from New York to New Jersey,
it'll cost you something like $2.40 for the first minute.
Yeah.
And that's insane.
You know, and that's only from a pay phone.
If you call from your home, it's more like, you know, $0.13 for the first minute.
So, obviously, pay phone rates are just, it's fantasy land.
Now, when they say within the ladder, I don't think they're including northern New Jersey and southern Connecticut.
Well, that's because they're not in the ladder.
Well, is that part?
Yeah, they are.
No, they're not.
Yeah, northern New Jersey is part of Ladder 132.
How could they be part of the ladder when they're not even part of the same Arbok?
That doesn't matter.
They're part of Bell Atlantic, not NYNEX.
Doesn't matter.
The ladder boundaries do not fall on phone company boundaries.
Then what kind of boundaries are they?
They were boundaries that were drawn up.
They're not state boundaries.
They're not phone company boundaries.
Where are these boundaries coming from?
They're based on the census, if you want a little history.
They're based on the census?
Yes, they are.
That was how they were originally drawn up.
Wow.
This is all new to me.
I didn't know this.
Yeah.
So, why don't they base other things on the census, too?
I don't know.
When they first drew up the ladders...
When you say they're based on the census, what does that mean?
That people...
It was based on statistics.
When they originally delineated the ladders, it was based on what's known as an SMSA, a Standard Metropolitan Statistical Area.
Okay.
And ladder number 132, which is the ladder that we live in, which is also referred to as the quote-unquote regional calling area.
That's why you hear 132-whatever when you're recording it, because of the ladder number.
Yeah.
And that's why there's the corridor service, where you can dial 10 NYT to call area code 201.
And you can dial 10 NJB to call area code 212 and 718.
Yeah, from Northern Jersey to call New York City.
Right.
That's because we're in the same ladder.
Okay, but that doesn't work from out on Long Island.
It should.
10 NYT does not work from there.
It should.
Let's get a consultant down here.
An operator.
Would you care to do the talking here and ask the operator the questions?
Because you understand the system better than me.
Okay.
My next, Mr. Pinckney.
Yeah, hi.
I'm trying to place a call to Northern New Jersey from Suffolk County using 10 NYT, and it doesn't appear to be working.
I wouldn't know if it works from that far, but right now you're at a 212 number.
It should work.
Oh, no.
We know it works in the city, but when I'm in Suffolk County, it doesn't appear to work.
No, it doesn't.
When you're in the 516, it's long distance, so it won't work from there.
Hmm.
Is there any reason why that is?
I don't know.
I guess it's got something to do with the bylaws or something like that.
9X is still negotiating to get more long distance service, and I guess they decided that that was going to be long distance.
I know when we handle calls from Suffolk and Nassau, we've got to hand them off to a long distance company.
We can't just dial them through.
They won't go through for us.
So I suppose it's the same for customers also.
Let me just butt in here for a second.
Is it the same LADA?
Is it considered the same LADA?
No, it's not.
No, it's not.
Even though it could be the same LADA from 212 to New Jersey, when it's going 516 to New Jersey, it's not.
Okay, but 516 is in the same LADA as 212, right?
That's right.
Okay, but it's a different part of the LADA.
It's not considered.
That's right.
201 isn't really in our LADA then.
It's adjoining 212, but it's not adjoining 516.
Yeah.
See, because really 201 and 908 are not in our LADA.
We just got regulations where we could make calls there, but only from 212 and 718.
It's not possible from 914.
Or from 516.
That's right.
Okay.
But I know when we handle calls from there and we put them to New Jersey, they've got to be handed to long distance.
Do you know anything about the new rate proposal that said that you can call anywhere in the LADA for a quarter?
Have you heard something like that?
I've heard something about it, but I'm pretty sure that's not true.
Uh-huh.
Because I know most of the calls have been a quarter, but I know there are still some from, like, Nassau to Suffolk that are still 50 cents.
Yeah.
But do you know if they're trying to change that?
They are trying to change it.
I see.
They're trying to change it.
I believe 9X wants it all to be a quarter.
Okay.
All right.
Thanks very much for your information.
Thank you.
Take care.
Well, I must say that was probably the most intelligent conversation of having an operator in a long time.
Well, maybe so, but he seems a bit confused about where the LADA's drawn.
Well, I think we seem a bit confused, too.
I mean, it's a confusing subject matter, but he had a grasp.
He did.
And he was willing to talk to us about it, and I think that's very important.
So, anyway.
So, apparently, that quarter thing seems to have some basis in reality.
Uh-huh.
And that might actually...
Might happen at some point.
What else do you see on those tariffs?
Anything interesting?
I thought I saw something mentioning touchtones.
Now, touchtones don't cost anything anymore, do they?
Yeah, touchtone was made free as of September 1st.
Right.
And, let's see, it's for individual and auxiliary lines, for two-party lines, and for PBX trunk lines.
What, do they give the rates for something that's free?
Well, they're comparing it with what it formerly was.
Oh, okay.
But these are...
Are these rates that have already gone into effect, or that will go into effect?
I thought it was just a proposal, a rate proposal to the PSC.
Well, most of it is the proposal.
Uh-huh.
But, uh...
Where mentioned, it says that certain of these things are effective as of September 1st.
But, uh, some other of them are not.
Okay.
Okay.
I guess, uh...
The others are on a wait-and-see basis.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, there's always something happening with, uh...
With 9X as far as rate structure and rate changes.
And this is true of phone companies all throughout the country.
Um, you just have to keep an eye open and look at those little tiny, uh, printed ads in the newspapers
because they're required to put them in there and see what's happening and see if it's a good idea.
Let me have a copy of that and see if there's anything in there that I think is particularly, uh, worth, uh, focusing upon.
Um, this is interesting.
Consolidation of rate groups.
And I see Angola and Akron and Boston.
Uh, where's Angola?
Uh, apart from being in Africa, I guess there's another Angola somewhere.
Don't know.
Maybe in upstate New York someplace.
Um, okay.
And they're merging a lot of different places together.
Okay.
There used to be a, uh, a monthly rate for two-party lines.
What's a two-party line?
Two-party line is, uh, like in rural areas.
Like a party line?
Yeah.
Okay.
Now there's no fee for that.
No monthly rate.
Hmm.
But I wonder if you can get a party line.
I don't think you can get those.
Interesting.
Okay.
And we had some other, uh, run-ins with, uh, with 9x policy this week.
And I guess, uh, this begins the whole, uh, or continues the story of our quest for ISDN.
Uh, which we've achieved.
We've gotten the ISDN lines.
We've gotten the ISDN to work.
And we were supposed to, uh, to cut 2600.com over to ISDN lines.
It did not occur.
And it did not occur because of a number of reasons.
Um, the biggest reason, well, first of all, let's explain what we were trying to do.
Uh, we were trying to, uh, use an internet service.
Uh, we, we chose PSI because they offered it in our area, uh, which was Suffolk County.
And they offered, uh, a particular rate for what's known as 64K ISDN.
Um, now the trick, a lot of people, it's, it's kind of unfair to call it a trick because really what you're doing is you're using the service, uh, to the best of, of, to your advantage.
Um, just like, you know, anybody would, uh, would, would pick the right calling structure.
Let's say you, you have to make a, you know, a, a 10-hour phone call someplace.
You pick the rate structure where you don't get billed by the minute.
And it's not considered, uh, ripping off the phone company or anything like that.
It's considered, uh, you know, doing, using their rate structure to your benefit.
And so, 9X offers, uh, ISDN lines, but they charge a surcharge for digital calls.
Now, there's a way around that.
And what, what is that way exactly?
Uh, the way around it is to, uh, originate the call as either an audio or a speech call.
And you could actually pass 56 kilobit data over a speech or an audio call, provided that who you're connecting to supports that mode.
So, basically, you get a 56K connection, uh, for the price of a voice call.
And there's no reason to charge more for a data call than a voice call.
I mean, nothing extra is being used, is there?
No, not really.
It's the equivalent of this, uh, the touchtone fee we had to deal with for so many years.
Yeah.
But in order to get around that, uh, you have to take a cut of a little bit, 56K as opposed to 64K.
And, um, you use the, uh, uh, a voice, a voice channel, I guess.
Yeah.
It's the easiest way to describe that.
Um, so we signed up with PSI and we, uh, we, we told them what it was we wanted to do.
They said it wouldn't be a problem, but it was a problem.
When we went to actually use the service after a couple of weeks of waiting for it to be installed,
waiting for, uh, our, our, our domain to be in the right place, we went to use it and it wasn't working.
It wasn't working.
And so then we, uh, we asked them, uh, you know, this thing isn't working at 56K and
they kind of started asking questions like, well, why do you want to use 56K?
You know, like, uh, like we were up to something and I felt kind of guilty explaining it to them,
but, uh, there was nothing wrong with doing this and people are doing this all over the place.
And it's, it's certainly, uh, a proper way to use your phone service by going 56K and using
the voice channel, you are avoiding that, uh, that surcharge, which shouldn't be there in the first
place.
And that's when they said, uh, well, they went off to confer with some, some person.
Uh, and that person apparently told them that, uh, it's not our policy to do this.
And so here we have, we've invested all this time, energy, and a lot of money into, uh,
into paying for this service.
And now we're told that the service doesn't exist.
So it's, it's pretty, uh, upsetting.
We've already found a couple of companies that will do it for us, but, uh, right now it's
trying to get our money back and, and recover from this and start the whole process over
again.
So that's, uh, that's what happened.
That's our latest stumbling block with ISDN.
You're pretty surprised by this, aren't you?
Yeah, I'm, um, rather surprised that, um, I mean, I didn't really think they would care.
I mean, they're certainly not profiting by, uh, whether or not an
9x makes an extra penny a minute off of their ISDN customers.
Are they profiting by having 9x happy instead of angry?
Yeah, maybe so.
It might, it might be easier to deal with them that way.
Obviously they deal with them quite a bit, but, um, well, the other thing to bear in
mind is, uh, what our friend explained to us over at UUnet.
Okay.
Which was that, uh, on the other hand, besides the fact whether or not a company's paranoid
about their dealings with the, the local regional bell, there's also the issue that the local
phone companies don't support passing data over audio or speech bearer calls as, uh, as
an acknowledged method of communication.
So if a subscriber to, say, PSI or UUNets ISDN was having a problem in configuring their equipment
in order to connect at 56 kilobits over speech or audio, and, uh, the problem was, did not lie
in any of the equipment at the internet service provider, then the internet service provider
doesn't really have any recourse.
They can't go to the local phone company and say, well, my customer's trying to pass
data over a speech or an audio call and it's not working.
The phone company's going to say, well, that's, uh, that's an unsupported configuration.
But what could go wrong?
I mean, what, realistically, what could prevent 56k from working over one of those lines?
Um, well, there's, uh, one little nuance, which I learned, which is, uh, one, uh, one minor
difference between ISDN on DMS-100s as opposed to 5ESSs.
If you order, if you provision one of your, uh, spids for circuit switch data only, on a
DMS-100, circuit switch data includes data as well as audio bearer capability, which means
you can originate audio calls.
On a 5ESS, however, if you provision one of your spids for circuit switch data only, you
don't get audio bearer capability.
So you'd have to actually pay extra to get speech, uh, bearer capability.
So on a 5ESS, if you order circuit switch voice, you get speech and audio.
And with data, you get data alone.
On a DMS-100, if you order data, you get data and audio.
And if you order voice, you get speech alone.
I see.
So that kind of confusion might not be really clear to the person who's ordering ISDN, since
most people consider it complicated enough ordering ISDN.
It is complicated, yes.
I mean, you've been trying to get three-way and call waiting on your line.
Yeah, well, actually, uh, this is interesting.
You haven't gotten it yet, have you?
No, I haven't gotten it yet, but I got a really good explanation today, which I was satisfied
with, why I don't have it.
Let's hear it.
Um, I spoke with, uh, one of the, uh, people who are actually usually rather helpful at,
uh, 9X's new ISDN tech center at Pearl Street.
And, uh, the person that I spoke with, uh, informed me that the reason why my order was
not processed yet is that they wanted to make sure what sort of equipment I was using.
Because, uh, on ISDN, supplementary services, which is what ISDN refers to, uh, custom calling
features as, have what's known as feature key numbers.
And they tend to be fairly standard between telephones, but they're not always exactly
the same.
And, for example, three-party conferencing would have a certain feature number, like, say,
60.
Uh-huh.
And call transferring might have another feature number.
You can get call transferring?
Yeah.
That's a great service.
Yeah.
So, actually...
I've had IntelliDial, and that's the only thing I use it for, and I will get rid of IntelliDial
if I can replace it with another service that offers call transfer.
Yeah.
So, basically, um, what they said is that what the guy told me is that they, uh, they could
give me, um, digital electronic telephone servers, D-E-T-S, which is also known under
the, uh, generic name on switches as, uh, electronic key telephone system with, uh, call appearance
call handling.
And, uh, what call appearance call handling is, is, uh, under 9X, you can order call appearances
in multiples of 10, and for, say, 10 call appearances, it's, uh, $250 a month extra.
And with an ISDN phone or a terminal adapter that knows how to use these features, you can
actually make or receive up to a total of 10 calls at once.
For $250 a month?
Yeah.
In combination with putting people on hold and picking up, uh, other lines.
Uh-huh.
So, uh, it's really useful.
So, uh, they're actually going to give me a feature package that includes three-party
conferencing, um, 10 call appearances, the ability to put people on hold, as well as,
uh, call transfer.
And they just didn't know this?
They didn't know this?
No, they will, before they did, well, the guy thought it would make more sense if I did
that, which I agreed.
And, like I said, they wanted to verify what the, uh, the feature key numbers were that
my hardware was able to do.
And I told them, they don't have to be, uh, 60, whatever.
In fact, in, uh, my Motorola BitSurfer, I can set them to any number.
Well, you're actually speaking to people that know what they're talking about, it sounds
like.
Yeah, it takes a while to get to that level.
Uh-huh.
But it's not impossible.
Okay.
I actually have contacts at, uh, at 9X's ISDN tech center.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, at Motorola, who makes, uh, the ISDN terminal adapter that I use.
And, um, I can get into fairly, uh, technical specifics.
Great.
And find people that know what I'm talking about.
Uh-huh.
Okay.
Well, it sounds like you're making some progress.
And hopefully we'll make some progress on our end, too, as far as getting, uh, our site
up to, up to a decent speed.
Yeah, I certainly hope so.
Yeah, because, you know, what we're talking about here, it's not inconsequential.
If, um, if you run a site that's 64K instead of 56K, you've got to pay that penny a minute
surcharge.
What does that add up to?
Penny a minute.
That's 60 cents an hour.
60 cents an hour.
And, uh, that's, uh, well, it's a lot of money.
It comes up to about $400 a month, which, you know, to us is quite a bit.
But, um, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's like blackmail.
9X, uh, offers you this great service and then makes it, uh, you know, prices it out of your
range by adding a surcharge to it for no particular reason.
So that's, uh, that's what we're fighting now.
That's our latest battle.
And, um, all right.
So that's basically what's going on as far as that goes.
Uh, we have more news as far as the Bernie S situation, which we've been talking about
over the past, uh, few months.
Bernie S being the person in Philadelphia who was put into federal prison for possession
of a red box and also possession of software that could have been used to clone a cellular
phone.
Um, and it's, um, it's very disturbing story, obviously, because he's been held without bail
in what's known as a, a medium max, uh, facility.
And a medium max is, is like the kind that was across the street from your prison, right?
Uh, yeah, actually.
Yeah, it was, uh, it's kind of, um, for, for really bad people.
Well, it's not a medium max, a medium high.
Medium high?
Yeah.
They're medium highs.
That's what they call them?
Yeah.
Maximum is maximum.
There's no medium max?
No.
The next level after medium is high.
So there would be a medium high.
Well, then the next level after medium would be medium high, not high.
Yeah, but nowadays, since the prison population is so crowded, they've, uh, most prisons have
consolidated medium security and high security into what's known as medium high.
Oh, that's just great.
Well, anyway, this is a guy that pretty much is, is like you as far as explaining things
and showing people how things work and, uh, really going after technology for the, for
the purpose of knowledge.
He's been on the show many times.
In fact, he's been calling us over the last few weeks, let us know how things are going.
And he was supposed to have been sentenced last Thursday.
Um, and his sentencing guidelines should have, uh, allowed him to, to be released immediately
because he, uh, he has already served so much, uh, time that he would have exceeded the
maximum that, uh, he could have been sentenced to under those, uh, sentencing guidelines.
However, guess what they did?
They decided to postpone it for three weeks.
Just, uh, just like that.
Postpone it for three weeks.
He's in prison for another three weeks.
Um, again, we won't be hearing from him tonight because, uh, he doesn't feel it's wise to
talk on the air at this point when the sentencing is so close.
Uh, so we'll just have to keep people updated as far as that goes.
If you're on the net, keep fingering BernieS at 2600.com for any, uh, late breaking details
that we might have on that story.
But it's, uh, it's pretty upsetting and something that's been, uh, bothering a lot of people.
Hopefully, uh, hopefully his day will come when, when, uh, he gets justice for this.
This is, uh, completely wrong for this kind of thing to happen.
Okay, we're here at WBAI.
This is off the hook.
This is our last Wednesday night show.
And we need to, uh, to get some people calling in to, uh, help support the station.
And there's a number of ways you can do this by calling 212-279-3400.
We're offering several different things.
Um, we're offering a hacker's package.
That's what they're calling this, a hacker's package.
And, uh, I guess that's, that's really kind of neat.
But, uh, what you get is a brand new 2600 t-shirt.
They are being printed, even as I speak.
They are making these brand new 2600 t-shirts that have the Michelangelo virus on the front.
You know, a whole, uh, you could type this in and you'll have your own Michelangelo virus.
I guess we'll probably be on shame on you or something for, for offering that to, uh, to America's children.
Uh, that's on the front of the shirt.
On the back, all kinds of updated articles.
I think you're in a few of them.
Kevin Mitnick's in a few.
I don't think, uh, Bernie S is in any of those.
Well, there hasn't been much press in Bernie S, unfortunately.
Um, so you'll get, uh, you'll get the 2600 t-shirt and a subscription to 2600 magazine for a pledge of $75.
Uh, 2600 magazine, of course, comes out quarterly.
We're 56 pages every issue.
And we're always talking about the latest in, uh, in hacker, uh, uh, things that are going on.
Either hacker news or, uh, or hacking stories or the latest thing with, uh, with, uh, various governmental agencies.
So please give us a call, 212-279-3400.
And, uh, Claude is here.
Claude.
This is our last Wednesday night.
We're not going to be seeing you anymore.
Or are you on Tuesday nights as well?
It's not going to be the same without you, uh, you know, intemperately kicking us out of here.
It's just not, it's not going to be the same with an arts show coming in all sensitive.
Is it an arts show that's replacing us?
It's something, yeah.
I think it's a strip, 10 a, 10 p.m. to 11.
Uh-huh.
They're going to do their idea of arts.
And we'll find out.
It's the arts hour.
Yeah, whatever they want to call it.
Uh-huh.
You know, Anthony's, uh, hour of glory, hour of power.
Oh, Anthony, Anthony does some pretty good stuff.
So, uh, I think that'll be, that'll be fun to listen to.
Um, and it's, it's not like we're going away.
We're just moving to a different, uh, a different time slot.
And a different, uh, a different day.
And I think that, um, oh, that's, that's great.
I think we'll, uh, we'll all benefit from this.
Um, we'll pick up some new listeners perhaps.
I think 8 o'clock probably might even be a better time slot.
I'm not sure.
I don't know anything about how time slots work.
But, uh, that's what we're coming in next week, Tuesdays at 8 p.m.
But, uh, we need some phone calls now because this is our last, uh, day of the marathon
that Off the Hook is going to be on.
And where does the marathon end?
Tomorrow, tomorrow evening?
I think it's tomorrow at 6 or something it ends.
So this is your last chance to take advantage of the hacker stuff.
Um, and it'll also show you support for this radio program.
Because over the years, this radio program has, uh, has developed from, from virtually nothing.
Well, actually, no, no, less than nothing.
And I'll explain what I mean by that.
The very first Off the Hook show actually was aired, or was supposed to air, on a Friday
afternoon at 1.30 p.m.
And I was new to the station back then, and I was all, you know, nervous and anticipating
all this kind of thing.
And I was ready to go at, like, you know, sitting in the studio.
There was a tape on before.
And I was ready to hit the button, right?
At 1.30, we were going on the air for the very first time with this brand new program.
What do you think happens?
That's the day that there's a fire in the Empire State Building, and every single New York
City radio station is knocked off the air at 1.28.
And so, here I am sitting by the console, never using it before, and everything just goes off.
And of course, I think it's my fault, even though I haven't touched anything.
And everyone's running around, there's chaos and pandemonium.
And, yes, we were off the air the entire afternoon, and the show did not air.
It was pretty sad.
It was really the worst thing that could have possibly happened to the very first edition
of this show.
We've come a long way since then.
And we also, we started off alternating on Wednesday nights.
Wednesday nights at 9 p.m. was when we first started.
And then we became a weekly show.
And then we switched time periods with the computer show.
Moved to 10 p.m., and they moved to 9 p.m.
And now we're moving to Tuesday nights at 8 p.m.
But over the years, we've gotten quite a crowd of people, a very diverse crowd of people
out there that write into the show.
They call into the show.
They talk about it on the streets.
You know, I've had several people come up to me and say, hey, you know, there's this
radio show that you really ought to listen to.
And then they proceed to tell me about Off the Hook.
And I agree, I should start listening to it.
But I just don't have the time.
I'm too busy doing other things around here.
I don't have a chance to really listen to what's going on.
212-279-3400.
For a $75 pledge, you will get the Hacker Quarterly, the 2600 Magazine, the most dangerous publication
in America, probably.
Right?
Oh, yeah.
Easily.
It has all kinds of people looking at it for informational purposes or federal authorities
of various sorts or who knows what.
All kinds of different people are out there.
They're all interested in the technology.
You don't have to be a hacker to appreciate it.
We come across increasing numbers of people.
Now that the film Hackers is out, everybody's into hacking.
They all want to know what it's about.
It's curiosity.
It's human nature.
It's all kinds of different things.
Everybody's in it for a different reason.
And they all have different fields of expertise.
So by calling the program, by making a pledge now, you'll be saying that the program means
something to you.
That you're one of those people that's curious, that's learned something from this particular
radio.
We have $25, huh?
Okay.
Why are you laughing at $25 for?
$25 is not insignificant.
It seems small when you start off, but we just started.
We got over $3,000.
We just, well, last week we got over $3,000, yes.
But that was a two-hour show.
No, that was a three-hour show.
That's true.
For us to get that kind of support, we have to make $1,000 in this hour.
All right.
Now, that sounds inconceivable.
It sounds impossible.
But we have two calls on the line.
And we have room for another five.
So all takes a few people.
A few people calling in.
Now, we also have a bigger hacker package.
That's the one where we have the videotape.
This is the videotape we played excerpts from last week where we had various people on a
panel talking about writing stories about hackers, whether it be journalistic stories
or screenplays.
We had the writer of Hackers, the director, and the producer of Hackers all on the same
panel.
And we had writers from The Village Voice and Harper's Magazine, as well as Wynne Schwartow,
who is a rather prominent author in some fields.
And they were all on the panel talking about how hackers are portrayed, how hackers could
be portrayed better, the inaccuracies, various things like that.
You will get that videotape, which runs about an hour and a half.
It was taped at the HOPE conference last year, as well as the aforementioned hacker t-shirt
with the Michelangelo virus and the one-year subscription to 2600 Magazine for a pledge of
150.
The most important thing, though, and this is something I cannot stress enough.
I stress it every time I say this.
The most important thing is not to look upon this as some sort of a, we're up to $100.
You see how people get together and bring the numbers up?
We're up to $100.
There goes another hacker package.
All right.
The important thing is not to look at this as an auction.
You know, this is not something that we're out to sell things to you.
We've donated a lot of these subscriptions and videotapes and whatnot to the radio station
so that it makes it easier for everybody.
The radio station can give these away, and people will call in because not only do they
want to support the radio station, but they want to get something back as well.
The most important thing, though, don't call just to get the package.
Call because you care about the radio show.
If you don't care about the radio show, if you don't care about the radio station, you
know, it's not really doing anybody any good to support it because, well, I mean, you
know, you're supporting it on false pretenses.
We want people to call in, support the radio show, that care about BAI, that care about
Off the Hook, and that want to see it continue.
That should be the most important thing.
That's why the premiums are secondary, all right?
It's something that we throw in to just make it easier on everybody to, you know, so that
you'll have something to remember this by, and because, you know, we want to give something
ourselves.
That's the most important thing.
Invest in the radio station.
Invest in the radio program.
212-279-3400.
You can make a difference, and we basically go through this every few months.
It's not something that, you know, it's particularly pleasant.
It's always draining to have to ask for money, but I think the flip side of that, the flip
side is that if we didn't do this, we'd have to do something else.
And something else would be very unpleasant.
I'm not talking about, you know, I don't know what you think I'm saying.
I'm not talking about robbing people or, you know, selling ourselves on the street or anything
like that.
No, I'm talking about we'd have to take commercials.
We'd have to take money from organizations, from corporations, foundations, whatever kind
of thing, and they would have a say in our programming.
Imagine, imagine saying, off the hook is underwritten with a grand from AT&T, just like McNeil
Lair has to say every single time they're on.
And then we'd have to say something like AT&T, you know, building a better whatever for when.
Your true choice.
Your true choice.
Yeah, right.
And now they broke into three pieces.
There's three more choices, even though they're the same company.
Meanwhile, they lay off 8,500 people.
Now, that's not much of a choice for them, is it?
And also, are rates going to go down because 8,500 people no longer have to get paid?
I don't think so.
I don't think they work that way.
So, yeah, these big corporations are fine, you know, in their own little worlds.
But when they mix with human beings, bad things happen.
You know, they start controlling the way things are.
You see big multimedia giants being formed.
General Electric with NBC.
Westinghouse with CBS.
Disney with ABC.
I mean, I never thought of Disney in the same category as GE and Westinghouse, but apparently
they want to be thought of that way.
Time Warner buying up CNN.
You know, everyone's buying everybody else and making these huge monstrosities, these
huge corporate monsters that have so much power.
What does the individual get out of that?
You know, they get basically the same thing.
No variety, no controversy, nothing different.
BAI is a single voice, alone in the woods, if you will.
And our sponsors, our corporate backers are not those people, they're you.
212-279-3400.
We have two calls on the line.
If we can just fill up the lines, get five more people to call in, I think that'll pretty
much do it for tonight, all right?
And it's not much, because we know lots and lots of people listen to this show.
It doesn't take much to call in.
We have somebody here who last week did it themselves.
Isn't that right?
Yes, that is actually correct.
Okay, you've got to move the microphone up before I hear you.
Go ahead.
Yes, that is correct.
You were sitting here last week.
I was sitting in this very chat.
I was ranting and raving like I am now.
And you were so inspired that you just got up and left.
And you got up and left to walk down the hall to make a pledge.
To make that pledge.
I took the plunge.
And what was it like?
Was it scary?
Well, let me tell you, I opened up that door and there were about ten people sitting there
taking phone calls.
Uh-huh.
And that's what we like to see.
We like to see ten people taking phone calls, you know.
Actually, some of them are not taking phone calls.
Well, we only have seven lines.
That's right.
We need people standing on the side to jump in.
If someone should, you know, get faint or something, it happens.
You know, it's a very stressful thing taking all these phone calls.
But it's something we need to do.
It's very important.
But I think, you know, what you did was very important.
And it's a decision a lot of people reach while listening to the radio.
Am I going to actually dig into my pocketbook and support this?
Well, yeah, you know, it's a good thing.
I've done it myself.
A lot of us have.
It's not as painful as you might think.
You know, you can, I mean, what you invested in the radio station is equivalent to investing
and what else?
You know, what else would you spend that money on?
You know, buying records perhaps or?
Buying books, buying anything that I find intellectually enjoyable.
You know, I buy tons of books and magazines and other things.
And I read them just to, you know, enhance my own, my mind, my intellect and so forth.
And I think I put that in the same category as this radio show.
And I'll tell you, it's not just for the cool T-shirt that I paid $75, nor for the subscription
in $2,600, but just to, you know, just for this show to be alive.
And for not only, you know, for the show to be here, but, you know, for ideas, essentially
for ideas that I think are, you know, fairly unheard of being spoken.
You know, there's some radical ideas being disseminated through, you know, your efforts
through the show, through 2600.
And, you know, I'd like to see that sort of energy continue.
Well, a lot of what we do, obviously, we couldn't be able to do if we didn't have a radio station
in New York to voice our opinion and present the facts as we see them and to take things
from our listeners as well.
And were it not for BAI, there wouldn't be any other place for us to go.
You know, we started the show a few years ago.
And I think it's just amazing how it's grown since then.
And the only reason it's grown is because BAI is the way it is.
There is no other radio station in this city.
And that's saying quite a lot, at least no station that's legally on the air where we
could have done this, where we could have talked about these issues and not gotten a
lot of heat for it.
Right.
You know, we can be courageous like that because we don't have to worry about, you know, the
corporate overlords that will come down on us and cut the funding.
Yeah, funding is being cut, national funding, because of, you know, Newt Gingrich's and Jesse
Helms of the world, it's going to be a lot harder for radio stations like this to continue
without various federal subsidies.
But as long as we have listeners, as long as we have people like you out there that will
call us and support us, then we'll survive.
We'll make it.
You know, we'll get through this somehow.
Absolutely.
And again, you don't have to pledge a 75 for the hacker package or the 150 for the hacker
package.
What are we up to?
Up to 400.
Wow.
That's good.
I'm happy so far.
We're almost halfway to where we have to be for this particular radio show.
Yeah.
And I just want to point out that we have a little slice of bandwidth here on the FM station.
And, you know, this show, this is a small studio.
It's a small show.
And I think that it feels all like.
Just a little bit.
You keep elbowing me when you gesticulate like that.
It's really tiny and cramped in here.
It's back.
Okay.
That's good.
That's why.
And it's kind of like a family.
You know, I come here and, you know, I see my friends and so forth.
And I think all the listeners out there probably tune in at this time.
I'm sure that we have, you know, a following of listeners who listen.
And I want to encourage you guys out there to pick up the phone and give us a call.
Because, you know, this is by calling us, you are acknowledging that you're getting something out of this show.
And also, you are helping this show to continue.
And that's what it takes.
Just, you know, a simple phone call.
And just like you would pay money for books or for stimulating movies or for any other kind of.
It costs less to support this radio station than it would be to buy a newspaper every day.
That's right.
Yeah.
You know, and that's all we're asking is for you to think of us in the same way.
Because you wind up paying for the other radio stations.
You really do.
You wind up paying because every product you buy has a certain portion of their budget allocated for advertising.
And who picks that up?
You do.
Of course you do.
So, every time you buy a product, you're paying for its advertising on various radio stations around the country.
You know, we don't have that.
So, obviously, we don't get any of that kind of money.
Which is why we need our listeners to.
That's more of a direct thing.
Where you call us and right away it shows up on our screen and it goes to the radio station.
212-279-3400.
We need to get some more calls.
There's no calls on the line right now.
So, every person calling in will be adding to the number.
And it's also important.
You don't have to get the hacker package.
You can get a number of other things that we have here at the radio station.
We have all kinds of things.
Ranging from Irving Berlin to Studs Terkel to Grateful Dead things to Alternative Health things.
They're all here.
And our volunteers will be happy to guide you through that.
But even if you just want to make a small pledge, that's fine, too.
Every little bit helps.
Because everybody who calls in gets the WBAI folio for a full year.
And that helps you find the radio programs that are on the station.
You kind of need it to.
Because there's so many different things here.
You know, Off the Hook is only one slice of BAI.
And to find other radio programs.
There might be another radio program that you like even better than Off the Hook.
Imagine that.
That could be.
Oh, it's possible.
It is.
There might be a show I like better than Off the Hook.
But you'll never find it without the folio unless you listen to the radio 24 hours a day.
So that's something everybody that subscribes to BAI will get.
212-279-3400.
We're up to five.
Because I hardly listen to the radio here in New York at all.
And, you know, I tune in when I'm not, you know, down here at the studio.
And I heard the most hilarious thing the other day.
And I don't even remember the station.
It was like coming up five in a row.
And where I grew up, it was like 20 in a row or, you know, a full hour of music.
And I just thought it's sad that, you know, a song on the radio is, what, four minutes?
So that means 40 minutes out of every hour you've got to listen to some announcer telling you about, you know,
Hi, buy this.
And whiter, brighter, faster, bigger, better, more.
Well, you know, that's what the real, that's the real reason for those radio stations being there in the first place.
It's not to play that kind of music.
It's not to play album rock or country or, you know, music or whatever.
It's to sell products.
That's what a radio station exists for, to make a profit.
And I can guarantee you we don't make a profit here.
We spend the money on things like our phone bills so that we can keep in touch with people around the world on various news things.
Exactly.
You don't hear anywhere else.
It's to keep equipment going.
I mean, if for some reason BAI would happen to go under, I mean, I think this area would lose a large, a large contributor to, you know, getting some of the information out there.
Absolutely.
There's nobody else like us, like the station really, or, or specifically like the show that's putting out the type of information that we put out.
And I think it would leave a lot of people wondering about, you know, what's going on out there.
That's certainly true.
212-279-3400.
Again, a lot of the stories that we've covered over the years, you simply would not have been able to hear about, like fiber optic with his, with his year in prison last year.
The radio made a big difference as far as getting word out about what was happening to him, about having him stay in touch with, with all of you out there while he was there.
It's the same thing that's going on with Bernie S. right now, where he stays in touch with people through the radio station and people find out about what's going on with him through this place.
You know, I was just talking to people tonight about this.
Why hasn't the media covered the Bernie S. story at all?
It's, it's one of the most incredible stories I've ever seen where someone has been basically thrown away for, for possession of something that most hackers carry around with them all the time.
And which is portrayed in a, in a major motion picture as something not harmful.
Yet this person had it, wasn't using it for anything illegal, just had a piece of technology for that, you know, prison without bail, like you're some kind of a terrorist.
These are scary times we're moving into.
We had the AOL raids a couple of weeks ago, where all these AOL users were allegedly moving child pornography.
You heard about the bomb threat on AOL, right?
I heard about something like that.
And every time, every time something like this happens, there's always some federal official somewhere saying, you know, it was going to be a lot easier if we could have cracked that encryption they used.
You know, they, they, they were storing files with encryption.
And hackers have always been into encryption, you know, into finding the most secure way of storing things.
You know, it's, that kind of shows that we're not out to, to invade people's privacy.
We're out to protect people's privacy.
But the federal government does not want that.
They want to be able to get in.
They want that backdoor.
They want that clipper chip.
And they are going to get it one way or another, no matter what they have to do.
If they have to outlaw encryption, they're going to try to do it.
This, this is not something I doubt anymore.
This is something I see coming in the next couple of years.
Yeah, unfortunately, unless they, they just back off and realize it's, it's going to be there.
I mean, it's like two neighbors who keep building their wall higher on, you know, to keep the other one out.
Right.
I mean, I think, you know, with the whole thing with Netscape, you know, that, that whole bug.
I mean, they had a, Netscape uses, what, a 40-bit encryption?
Yeah, the public domain version is 40-bit.
Right.
And they just had, like, a team of people crack that.
I mean, then they get, go up to a 64-bit.
I mean, it's not going to take long before somebody can crack that.
Right.
Well, they claim they're going to forge ahead now to 300.
Oh, no, not 300.
So you get two more hackers on it, and you're done within, you know, three months.
Well, you see, that's why hackers are looked upon as the biggest threat to people that want their world in a particular way, and they don't want to compromise at all.
The only difference between a hacker who's sitting there cracking it and somebody in the federal government who's trying to crack it to read your email is the federal government's, you know, taking our tax dollars and using it to pay these people rather than using it somewhere where the money could be much more appreciated.
Right.
No.
Right.
212-279-3400.
We have about three calls on the line, so I'm happy to see that.
But, you know, what is particularly scary about all this is it's going to reach that point where just having encryption is analogous to being a criminal, much the same way a lot of people seem to think that being a hacker is analogous to being a criminal because these are the people that can do something bad.
The fact is they're not doing bad things.
They're finding out how everything works.
They're spreading knowledge.
Maybe that has become a bad thing in today's society.
In the Bernie S. case, he's in prison because they looked at the books he had in his house and they determined that those kind of books could be used in dangerous ways.
He had a list of Secret Service frequencies.
He was out to get the Secret Service apparently.
You know, that's how they looked upon it.
Are you aware of what NYU is doing now with the palm print?
No.
Oh, you haven't seen this.
Okay, NYU's dormitories now, in addition to normally, I mean, they had pretty strict security.
You go in and you flash an ID badge that's, you know, basically like any driver's license.
It's got certain things in it that are supposed to be hard to copy.
And it's got a seal on it depending on which dorm you're in.
But now some of the dorms have an encoder.
I don't know how it works in infrared.
I haven't exactly, you know, gone up and played with it.
Basically, it's a palm scanner.
You go in and you stick your hand under the thing, put your hand on it, and it's been pre-programmed in with your palm print so nobody else can do it.
You go in and do that and then you have access to the building.
Now, it's not required yet.
But they offer it as an option.
The hall that I saw it in is a...
Why a palm print, not a fingerprint?
It's a thing you just stick your whole hand in, and I think it just reads your whole...
That's the way to do it rather than, you know, one finger.
I don't know.
That's the way the thing works.
In 20 years, they find out that these things, you know, are killing people.
Yeah.
No, but there's a dorm, I believe it's called Third North, and it's like you go and when you walk in the front door, you can either go over to the right or over to the left.
And on one side is the palm thing, and on the other side you have to show the guy your ID.
So students are like, oh, we love it.
It's great.
You know, we can go in, and we can just walk right in, and we don't have to show our ID to anybody.
But, I mean, it's a kind of scary thing that even though right now it's, oh, it's experimental, and it's for the students, and it's a good thing.
I mean, can you imagine what happens when that becomes mandatory?
I mean, that's just something enforced on you.
People going around cutting off arms.
Exactly.
Putting off hands underneath.
I don't know.
I mean, the first thing I want to do is figure out a way to defeat it.
Right.
And the second thing I want to do is stop it from being used because it sounds kind of, you know, Big Brother-ish.
Yeah.
To have all these, you know, fingerprints.
I wonder what the government's going to say about Zimmerman's PGP phone.
Yeah.
That's going to be interesting.
Well, that's something that's been looming on the horizon for a while.
Yeah.
I don't know what an early state of that is, but that's going to, oh.
Well, encryption of any sort is seen as a bad thing in the eyes of the government.
And, you know, the question they ask is, well, how else are we going to catch criminals?
And, you know, my way of dealing with that is, well, criminals usually commit crimes, and that's when you charge them when they commit a crime.
And if you think somebody is up to something, you don't catch criminals by listening to everybody.
You don't catch criminals by reading everyone's mail.
You catch criminals by seeing somebody doing something that is illegal or hearing about somebody and investigating and figuring out who it is.
Just because there is encryption does not mean you are not going to catch criminals.
And most criminals are not intelligent enough to use encryption in the first place.
It's people like us that are using encryption.
And, of course, I guess that makes us criminals.
Ooh, yeah.
I don't know.
It makes us intelligent.
But the important thing, even if you have no computer at all out there, even if you're not into encryption or none of this makes any sense to you,
it should be the idea, you know, the idea that free thinkers are, you know, targeted, are the threat, are people that are looked upon as bad.
That is something that should be a very great concern to you.
And that's why people should be out there responding and calling us up and helping us to stay on the air, helping the radio show to stay on the air.
212-279-3400 is our phone number.
We're up to 725, which is good, but it's not nearly good enough.
We have five minutes left, and we have to reach 1,000 by then.
So, please, 212-279-3400 is our phone number.
No calls on the line.
And, again, to go over the packages that we have, for $75, we have a hacker package, hacker package number one,
where you get a brand-new 2600 T-shirt with a Michelangelo virus on it and all kinds of newspaper clippings.
And you get a one-year subscription to 2600 magazine.
And, okay, we're changing the schedules here.
Okay, 212-279-3400, for a $75 pledge, you get a 2600 T-shirt and the, what's the other thing you get?
Refresh my memory.
The T-shirt and what else?
A subscription.
Thank you, a subscription.
I'm losing my mind here.
I'm not good at this.
Okay, the T-shirt and the 2600 magazine for a full year.
For a $150 pledge, you get that, and you get the full videotape of the panel at the HOPE conference,
where various hacker journalists or people, journalists writing about hackers and screenplay people.
Is our favorite federal informant in the movie?
Who's our federal informant?
The guy that you were discussing last week?
Oh, no, no, he's not a journalist.
No, but is he in the film at all?
You just said it was filmed at HOPE.
Well, no, he's not in that particular part.
He might be in one of the other videos that we have.
But that particular video...
It's just on the movie.
Yeah, so you can get that for a pledge, $150, plus the shirt, plus the subscription.
Claude is here with a program announcement.
Yeah, Robert Knight is going to be on at 11, and it'll be The Masculine Mystique with Andy Cambrell.
If that name means something to you, you're very excited right now.
You can hardly wait.
Okay.
I'm glad you're here 24 hours a day to make those programming announcements.
It's better than having a cart machine.
So we know what's going on.
Okay.
You want to do that?
Sure.
All right.
Roman Kazan just stepped into the studio with another amazing offer of his.
You guys need help, so I'm hoping this will help.
He ran down as soon as you heard us on the radio.
He has offered two more Internet accounts, full PPP access, full Internet shell, Unix access to the Net email and Usenet, all that kind of thing.
Do you want to briefly describe it to us?
It's everything you could possibly want.
Yeah, every single thing you can do on the Internet.
You get web access, Slip PPP with your own IP network number.
You can put up your own web page.
You have a Unix account.
Anything that you see anyone talking about doing on the Internet, you can do it through this type of an account.
Okay.
Now, you're offering a six-month unlimited account.
Six-month.
You could use it as much as you like.
It could stay on 25 hours a day if you want.
Okay.
That's for a pledge of $150,000 as well, which is a lot less than most places will charge you in the first place to get on the Net.
If you use something like AOL, if you're even considering using something like AOL.
Don't!
Who said that?
Anyway.
It's me, Joker.
I work at CompuServe.
I think you should use them instead.
No, basically, those places charge you by the hour, right?
They charge you by the hour.
And we don't use systems by the hour.
We use systems all the time.
Someone can use escape.com, which is the service we're offering here tonight, for a pledge of $150,000.
And it could stay on for 20 hours.
20 hours at a time.
People do it all the time.
If you stayed on one hour a day with America Online, that'll cost you approximately $60 a month.
Wow.
$60 a month.
That's a lot.
And all you get to use is one hour a day.
Think about that.
And you're on AOL the whole time.
I don't want to slam them too badly.
Now, this is an example.
If we were a commercial radio station, do you know how much trouble we'd be in right now?
We're slamming AOL?
Well, we'd be in trouble because AOL is probably owned by somebody that owns something else that probably owns the radio station.
You've got to be really careful what you say these days because there's all these corporate mega mergers going on.
Here at BAI, we're pretty sure that we're part of the Pacifica Foundation and nothing else.
Okay?
So we don't have to worry about, you know, about slamming products and saying things that we think are true.
So nobody's going to penalize us for stating our opinions.
And these are our opinions.
These are not facts.
But we need you to call up and help us with this particular fundraiser because it makes us all strong.
212-279-3400.
Call to see if those two accounts are available for a pledge of $150.
We do take Visa and MasterCard.
We don't give it back, though.
No, we don't actually take the card.
You know, you don't have to worry because the hackers don't see the Visa cards.
And they don't have to be tempted by that.
Oh, strike number two, AOL and Netcom, all in one night.
Now we slam Netcom because Netcom had the credit card file online all last year and didn't do anything about it
until they found it in Kevin Mitnick's directory and decided to blame him.
Is Robert ready?
I'll go find out.
Okay, thank you, Claude.
Oh, at last we have some more space in here now.
Okay, we have five calls on the line.
That's really good.
Really good.
I want to thank you people.
Six calls on the line.
Only one more person and we'll have a full bank of calls.
Hey, Robert, do you think you can get a full bank of calls here?
We have six calls on the line.
All it takes is one more person calling 212-279-3400.
It'll be mayhem down there.
The utter mayhem.
212-279-3400.
You have to call before someone hangs up because then it won't be a full line anymore.
There it is.
There's the line.
The line is ringing.
I hope that person isn't calling just to make the lines ringing.
We're up to 1,050.
So we made our goal and we did it with the help of everybody out there.
Next week, we'll be on at a brand new time, Tuesday nights, 8 p.m.
We're starting with a special two-hour pilot season premiere, if you will, with a special
extended plot and all that kind of thing.
And that starts next week, Tuesday night, 8 p.m.
And that's going to be our new time slot from now on.
And I'm going to miss being here on Wednesday nights.
You know, we won't be seeing Robert anymore.
We won't be seeing their computer people.
We won't be seeing Claude.
Yeah, but the restaurants will be open when we get done.
That's right.
We'll be able to go out and have fun at a more reasonable time.
Okay, so thanks to everybody who called in.
Thanks to everybody who's listened.
And I hope everyone out there will be able to make the move with us to Tuesday nights,
you know, because I'd hate to think that we lose some people.
Also, stay tuned next week as well at this time because I think you'll like some of the
things you hear on this radio station.
Claude, you have something to say?
Yeah.
The new time will be just set your watch 26 hours ahead and you'll get them.
You think that's why they did that?
We're 26 hours ahead of ourselves now.
That's kind of cool.
I like that.
Okay, thanks guys for coming in and helping out.
And those of you who pledged, thanks very much.
We're back again next Tuesday night at 8 p.m.
We'll see you then.
Good night.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
It couldn't get much worse.
But if it could, it would.
Fond du lit bon for the best, it's best, the worst.
I hope that time is good.
Fond du lit bon!
Fond du lit bon for the best.
Fond du lit bon for the best.
New York, listener-supported radio broadcasting at 99.5 MHz FM.
Good work, fellas, and good luck in the new time period.
A lot of surprises are going to be happening in the evening schedule here on WBAI New York.
I'll have a few announcements about that as time goes by.
Meanwhile, tonight, we go from programming systems to reprogramming sexuality in the tale of the 20th century.
This special edition of Earthwatch will focus on the latest developments in biotechnology as well as a serious assessment of the masculine mystique.
That happens to be the title of a book on that very subject by a friend and colleague of this air, biotechnology analyst Andrew Kimbrell, who will be joining us live in just a short time.
I'm Robert Knight.
This is Earthwatch on WBAI in New York.
Stay tuned for an assessment of the male mystique.
It's called Sensitive New Age Guys.
And wherever you are right now, riding in your car or lying on the beach with your Walkman on, please sing along on this song.
It'll help you with your male bonding kind of thing.
And to help you, I've rounded up every sensitive guy I could find in New York City tonight.
Sensitive New Age Guys, who are hard to tell from women.
Sensitive New Age Guys, who like to cry at weddings.
Who think Rambo is upsetting.
Who tapes 30-something on their VCRs.
Who's got child-on-board stickers on their cars.
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
Whose last names are hyphenated.
Sensitive New Age Guys.
Who loves three men and a baby.
A movie I hated.
Sensitive New Age Guys.
Whose consciousness is constantly raising.
Sensitive New Age Guys.
Yet whose tax-free income is amazing.
Sensitive New Age Guys.
Who thinks that red meat is disgusting.
Who's into UFOs, channeling, and dusting.
Who believes us when we say we've got premenstrual syndrome.
Who doesn't know who plays in the Seattle Kingdom.
Lots of guys don't know who plays in the Seattle Kingdom.
Why is not into brutal violent contact sports.
Why?
Let's ask these sensitive guys right here.
Hey guys.
How are you?
Do you know who plays in the Seattle Kingdom?
Do you know who plays in the Seattle Kingdom?
Oh, good answer, good answer.
Good answer.
Good answer.