And this is radio station WBAI in New York, the time is just about 8 o'clock, it's off
the hook time.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall, I cut myself while shaving, now
I can't make a cough, it couldn't get much worse, but if they could they would, bum-diddly-bum
for the best expect the worst, I hope that's understood, bum-diddly-bum!
Thank you.
Thank you.
And very good evening. This is Off the Hook, the program that teaches you everything you need to know about your telephone and your computer and the networks and what Big Brother is really after.
This is Emanuel Goldstein, Fiber Optics over there. You there, Fiber?
I'm over here.
Oh, great. Everything works, except for that minute of dead air we just had. Everything is working just fine in the brand new studio.
Today's New York Times has a story about second phone lines.
In the days when keeping up with the Joneses required a high-capacity station wagon, not a high-speed modem, having a second telephone line at home was a luxury necessary only if a family had several teenagers.
But this year, the biggest single-year increase in new residential phone lines in the United States since the end of World War II, 7 million households have had additional lines installed.
As several information aid forces have ignited into a social phenomenon, and now it is often the parents who are tying up the lines driving the demand.
What do you think about that?
Well, I think that if only they knew about ISDN, they'd have four lines instead of two.
Well, if they knew about ISDN, they certainly wouldn't have an increase this year because it would take them six months to install it.
Yeah, but it would be well worth the wait.
Yeah, I guess so.
But, you know, as I speak to you now, I kind of wish I'd never gone with ISDN because I'm having so much trouble just establishing connections with those antiquated 9X trunks.
Things are falling apart and just getting things to work.
Like, you know, we've been trying to do an experiment where, you know, the only way for us to call from point A to point B is to go through point C and forward a line.
But 9X has been trying now for two weeks to install call forwarding on a line, and they can't do it.
They just can't do it.
They don't know why they can't do it.
They just can't do it.
And it's that kind of incompetence that has been sort of the theme of this whole ISDN business.
Well, it seems obvious to me 9X is not giving Long Island any priority whatsoever.
No, I don't think they are.
I don't think they are.
You should complain.
I think 9X is giving you Jersey priority because they're thinking of the merger that's ahead.
I get plenty of priority in Manhattan.
Yeah, well, that's because, uh, I don't know why that is.
I don't know.
But you seem to have found the right people.
Yeah.
You know, you can just call somebody and have something taken care of and have something wiped out at a thought.
Yeah.
Disconnect this phone over there, please.
They were mean to me.
No, nothing like that.
No?
Well, it's good to know people in 9X.
If you know people in 9X, you can get a lot done.
Well, if you know people that can actually do things in 9X.
That's true.
Well, uh, there's, uh, this is an interesting editorial.
It was just handed to me moments ago from, uh, a magazine called Data Communications.
I'm not sure, it's one of those magazines you're not sure if you've ever heard of before.
Yeah, very nebulous title.
Yeah, because, you know, Data Communications, yeah, it sounds like something you should know,
but then again, is that a magazine or what?
I don't know, uh, probably offending them if they're listening, but I'm sorry, that's just
the way the name is, you know, I just don't know.
Data Communications of November 1995.
This is from page 142, so I guess they must be doing pretty good.
Um, hackers.
Uh-oh.
Yeah.
It's the sort of word that should be whispered stealthily, out of the corner of the mouth.
How do you do that?
Uh, hackers.
Or, hackers.
I don't know.
Um, keep your eyes straight ahead.
Don't let on that anything's wrong.
Slowly, very slowly, reach for the speakerphone and get security on the line.
See if I can even, uh, do that.
Uh, security.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
We can't.
That's, uh, that's our little play for tonight.
Um, at least that's the way most net managers seem to react when they hear the dreaded H-word.
H-word.
We're at the H-word.
Oh, yes.
Uh, but in the new global free-for-all that passes for business as usual, the hacker community
could prove to be a corporation's greatest asset.
Consider this, if you will.
The smart use of technology is what separates winners from losers in the information era.
Who best knows the tricks of the illicit access trade?
Who can teach companies how to protect themselves against technological snooping and point out
the chinks in their security armor?
Surprisingly enough, given their penchant for privacy, it's not that hard to track down these
experts in infiltration.
About 400 self-described hackers, crackers, encryption breakers, that's what they define hackers as,
or crackers, rather, and freakers, telephone system hackers, did you know that?
Attended the recent DEF CON 3 conference in Las Vegas.
It was recent?
Well, I guess it was August, wasn't it?
Was that DEF CON 3 or was that DEF CON 4?
Three.
That was three?
Okay.
I lose track.
Contrary to what most net managers would expect, the real purpose of DEF CON 3 wasn't to share
hacks or conduct tutorials on bringing down the phone system.
It was to win money at the gambling casinos and get in, for those of us under 21.
Hackers already communicate anonymously using public key encrypted security.
They don't need to come to Las Vegas to compare notes.
No.
DEF CON 3 was a chance for hackers to meet their peers, to associate a face with a cryptic
handle, to share a beer, a handshake, or a joke.
In other words, these talented young people were looking for professional association and
community behind the stereotypical image of the hacker as a socially backward, arrested
adolescent computer nerd.
I guess that arrested adolescent takes on two meanings there.
Unfortunately, we're real people who wanted to become part of something larger than themselves.
For a few business people, or a door light is flashing.
I guess let's just let them in.
I can't hear them.
There.
Come in.
We have a new door light here.
So whenever the light flashes, it means somebody's there.
But if the microphone's on, you don't know who it is.
It's a real security feature there.
Few business people or networking industry types attend DEF CON.
They think the conference lends legitimacy to the hacker community.
In fact, one representative of an internet firewall vendor,
they haven't met an internet firewall vendor.
They're funny.
They really are.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
You need a firewall on your system.
Oh, yeah.
That'll keep everybody out.
Keep everybody out.
Including you.
It's pretty silly.
The whole concept of firewalls itself is rather...
Well, everybody's is better than everyone else's.
Yeah.
250,000 hackers failed to get in, right?
Oh, yeah.
Well, they didn't know it was there.
They didn't...
Yeah, right.
And, you know, if you say it's there, you know, we don't know that there's anything behind the modem.
It's just like a modem connection or maybe an IP address doesn't really go anywhere.
It's really pretty silly.
But anyway, one representative of an internet firewall vendor was severely criticized by his peers
for setting up his product and challenging the hackers to break it.
No one, according to this man, had ever done so,
and he was willing to offer a hefty prize to anyone who could.
For a firewall vendor, exposure to the hacker community was like the ultimate field test.
He wanted to discover any weaknesses in his product before it protected classified or sensitive data.
Well, you know, that's all fine and good, but, you know, we say if you're really that confident,
give us a list of your customers, and then we'll see if we can break into any of those.
Corporate America has a lot to learn from this loan vendor.
Hackers obviously have tremendous insight into the design and development of security systems.
That alone makes them fantastic network security consultants.
Are you a fantastic network security consultant?
Fantastic.
All right.
Particularly in a project's requirements planning phase,
a hacker can help any company gain insights into a network or application that demands stringent security,
and once an application is in place,
hiring known hackers to conduct intrusion testing is perhaps the most effective way to discover weaknesses.
Of course, many organizations will be reluctant to trust these sorts of tasks to hackers,
but when treated with respect and given guidance,
most hackers, like the rest of us,
respond to the challenge and responsibility of a professional position.
Hiring hackers does entail risk, but so does ignoring the unauthorized access problem.
Hackers can perform an even more important role in the vendor community in the design and development of new security products.
In an industry where product life cycles are measured in months,
a savvy hacker can be a source of spontaneous and innovative thinking.
Think about it.
Who's more likely to come up with a revolutionary approach?
A cookie-cutter group of engineers and MBAs,
or a gang of cunning hackers who live for the thrill of cracking tough technological problems?
Yeah, yes.
Appropriately enough, the theme of DEFCON 3 was why?
Because we can.
This is a wake-up call.
It's time to harness the minds that can.
Besides, if legitimate businesses, governments, and other organizations
don't enlist the hackers' help,
who will?
Well, the Russians.
The Russians will, yes.
The, uh, I don't know, who's evil today?
That's just it.
There's a dearth of enemies.
You know, we don't have enough enemies, so we can't really say.
But I guess the child pornographers will,
because they're the ones that, they're the most evil people.
Yeah, they need to protect the pictures.
Yes.
Everything these days is, you know, because of child pornography.
That's the whole Exxon bill thing.
You know, I was reading Broadcasting and Cable magazine.
You ever see this magazine?
Never heard of it.
Well, it talks about broadcasting and cable,
and all kinds of things that affect them.
And they were talking about the communications bill,
which is very, very close to being passed,
although it's being sort of postponed a little bit.
The general thought is still that it's going to be passed
within a couple of weeks.
And they were saying how, about this V-chip,
that you were going on about a couple of weeks ago.
The V-chip, yeah.
How various, all the networks, actually,
all the networks, people that produce TV programs
are required to voluntarily rate their programs.
Now, think about this.
That's what it actually said.
They're required to voluntarily rate their...
I mean, what's voluntary about that?
They're required to do it.
It's not voluntary.
It's mandatory, you know?
They're saying this with a straight face.
So, you know, this is the kind of law
that they're putting into effect here,
that, you know, we're voluntarily going to have to do...
They'll do it if they know what's good for them.
Yeah.
Can you imagine?
I mean, what would they rate this show?
Why not rate radio shows, too,
if they're going to rate TV shows?
It's a lot easier to censor a radio show
than a TV show.
I don't know.
Or is it?
Well, I don't know.
It's kind of hard.
I mean, some weeks, you know,
we're positively G,
and other weeks, we might even be R.
You know, I think usually we're like a PG-19 or something.
I don't know.
I mean, who's to come up with these things?
I think you should rate it based on your own criteria.
You know, like, stupid people, no, this is not for you.
You know, something like that.
You know, intelligent audiences only, please listen to this.
Why not?
You know?
And then if you get insulted by it, you'll listen out of spite.
And then you get more listeners that way.
It's ingenious.
But this whole rating system is just, it's categorization.
Whenever you have categorization, that is bad.
You categorize records.
You put a sticker on all the records with lyrics
that might make people think a little too much.
And all of a sudden, you know, certain record stores say,
well, we don't carry records with those stickers on them.
And they just, you know, wipe the whole thing out.
Well, just remember, there's two types of people in this world.
Us and them.
That's right.
Well, which ones are us?
Oh, we're us.
Really?
They're them.
Okay.
I have a surprise here.
Surprise, really?
I have a surprise.
It's actually a present.
It's a present for you.
For me, personally?
A present for you, personally.
So get ready, because I'm going to throw it across the room.
Okay.
All right.
This is something that actually is pretty unique
and pretty rare at the same time.
I'm going to hold it up from a distance,
and you're going to tell me if you know what it is.
Okay.
What do you think that is?
Um...
Now, I just threw it at you, so...
Okay.
Now you're going to tell me what you think it is.
Oh, it's a Captain Crunch whistle.
It's an original Captain Crunch whistle.
Does it work?
Well, let's try it out.
Let's try it out.
You have to hold down...
There's basically...
And you're going to help us with this.
Okay.
Because we've been trying to figure out what the other tone is.
Okay.
If you hold one hole, you get 2600,
and if you hold another hole, you get another tone,
which we don't know what it is.
Okay.
So just don't go too close to the microphone,
because you blow out all the equipment,
but...
Go ahead.
You've got to blow hard.
That's 2600.
That's 2600.
Blow that really hard,
facing away from the microphone.
Okay.
I wonder how much electronic equipment
we've disconnected somehow.
So, uh...
Try the other one.
Oh, the other one.
Now, what's that?
That's, uh...
That's just a whistle?
Yeah, it's just a...
But keep in mind,
this thing came out with no intention of...
Right.
...of controlling the phone system.
It would have been cool if they made the other 2400.
Yeah, that would be nice,
but they just don't think when they do this.
This was back in the 60s.
Yeah.
I guess the mid-60s or something?
Yeah, probably.
You want to describe what this thing looks like
for people that are not fortunate enough to have one?
Uh, it says a, uh...
Captain Crunch, uh...
Boats and Whistle.
And I guess for people that are unfamiliar,
a boats and whistle is those, uh...
whistles they use on boats.
That's right.
To, like, signal the presence of the captain
and all that nonsense.
Yeah.
But I guess you could signal all kinds of things
with this whistle.
Not just the captain.
That's true.
Now, what does it look like physically?
Physically, it's, uh...
It's red.
It's red.
It's a red box or...
Yeah, it's got a little hole in it
so you can hang it around your neck.
Yeah?
Yeah.
For convenience?
And, uh, let's see.
It's got Captain Crunch himself on one side
and it's got a little dog on the other side.
I guess this is his seafaring mascot.
I guess.
That dog never really made it
because you see a dog in the Captain Crunch boxes.
But, uh, yeah, they soon stopped giving those out
when they realized what they did to the phone system.
Um, and I guess that's how...
That's how Captain Crunch out in the Bay Area
got his name.
Yep.
By getting that cereal
and plunging his hand into it and, uh...
That's how he got his sweater.
He wears a red sweater all the time.
Is that so?
Whistles red.
Is that so?
I'm just guessing.
Well, that's a little bit of history
for, uh, for the people out there.
Yeah, that's great.
Um, anything else, uh, happen of history
or of note this week?
Um, let's see.
Being a holiday week and all.
Of notes.
It's been kind of, kind of slow.
Well, I got my phone bill
and, uh, lo and behold,
there was one of those, uh,
9X newsletters in it.
Oh.
First page about the, uh,
attention on NetSurfers
and all that business.
NetSurfers?
About getting ISDN, yeah.
So they're actually, uh,
pitching ISDN today.
Yeah, it seems like they're
rolling out full force now.
Uh-huh.
And did they say anything
that was wrong, or...?
No.
They said nothing wrong,
but they didn't say anything new.
Okay.
So, uh, there's no new word
on whether or not
they're gonna eliminate
that penny-a-minute charge.
Uh-huh.
I've heard nothing new about that.
Interesting.
On our front, over at 2600,
uh, no news from PSI
as far as their, uh,
their, uh,
what is, what should I call it?
Their, uh,
their campaign of terror.
I guess that's the best way
to say it.
Uh, where they've,
they're trying to charge us
for an entire year worth
of non-service.
Uh, but you can visit
our webpage
and learn all about it.
And, in fact,
if you missed it last week
where they say they offer
a service that they don't,
in fact, offer,
uh, then, uh,
you can just click onto that
and it'll automatically
play for you
and it's kind of neat.
Uh, if you,
if you just want to, uh,
get, uh,
get a copy of what's going on
without hearing all the, uh,
bells and whistles,
uh, then, uh,
you can email,
or, actually,
don't email,
no, finger the site,
uh, psi at 2600.com.
Um, actually,
soon you'll be able
to email it.
It's not going to reply
if you email it now.
Um, but nothing new.
They've been,
they've been very quiet.
Yeah.
They've been silent on that.
So, I don't know.
We'll, we'll just keep
waiting to hear.
But in the meantime,
you know,
a stern warning
to those folks out there
looking for internet access,
be careful.
Be forewarned.
There are,
there are elements out there
that, uh,
you know,
will, will,
will sell you things
that don't exist.
And, uh,
then you'll be expected
to pay for them
when you find out
they don't exist.
Strange forces are at work
to thwart, thwart
your, uh, your net surfing.
That's right.
What do they call people
that try to, uh,
try to thwart surfers?
Um, sharks?
Well, yeah.
Net sharks.
Net sharks.
There you go.
Although, I think
someone else took that name.
Really?
I don't know.
212-279-3400
is our telephone number.
And, um,
okay,
what I'm going to try
to do now
is go into delay.
Except this is the new board.
We're in the new studio.
And I might get this wrong.
So, uh,
it's possible
when I hit this button
we'll start hearing ourselves
a few seconds later
and we'll get all confused.
As long as we don't start
seeing ourselves
a few seconds later.
No, I think,
okay, I think this is working.
I think this is working
just fine.
Um,
okay, I guess,
I guess we're,
we're in delay.
I mean,
I thought it was going to be
a little harder than this
but sometimes things
are a little too easy.
Okay, well,
you know,
you press that button
and something's supposed to happen.
I press the button
and nothing happened.
What happens if I press
the button again?
I'm going to press
the button again.
Oh, I press the button again
and now...
No, now we're delayed
in the studio.
We're delayed
in the studio.
How could that be?
No, you see,
okay.
We are delayed
in the studio, true.
Right.
But on the air,
we're not delayed at all.
Do you understand?
Um, no.
Okay, right now...
This is going to drive us nuts
because...
This is going to drive us nuts.
You're right.
I have to...
It's going to be the other way around.
I have to switch the headphones
into delay mode.
Right.
Until I figure that out,
we're going to hear ourselves
seven seconds later
every time we say something.
I'll figure it out.
I'll get it.
Reinforcements are coming in.
The time lords
have just surfaced.
Ah, program.
Okay, there we go.
We're fine.
Now, how did that sound
over the air?
Was anybody aware
that anything was wrong?
Genius.
Not until you told us all.
Okay.
You see, to us,
here in the studio
with our headphones on,
we kept hearing ourselves
seven seconds later,
and that can be
awfully disconcerting.
It's at home.
It's good to know
there's a SWAT team out there
to help us out
every time something happens.
Okay, so we've had
a minute of dead air already,
and we've gone to delay
and gone with it,
so we've got to be
really careful
what we do around here.
Okay, we have
a full bank of phones
ringing.
212-279-3400.
Tell us your experiences,
your wishes for the new year,
because this is our last show
of 1995.
That's true.
Are you going to be
at the Bryant Park
festivities for ISDN?
What festivities?
We talked about it last week.
We did?
The ISDN marvels
that NYNEX will be unveiling.
Oh, that's right, yeah.
Where's Bryant Park again?
Well, we still haven't
figured that out,
but we know it's
around here somewhere.
It's by the New York
Public Library.
Oh, really?
Where's that?
We never get out
of this place.
We know they're all
down there someplace.
Oh, it's that newly
renovated park?
Yeah, I think so.
Ah, yeah,
we'll have to be there.
Okay.
Yeah, because I don't know
how they're going to
get things going.
Well, witness the wonders.
Somebody helps them
plug things in.
Yeah.
You know,
what's the ANAC
for Manhattan?
It's 958, guys.
Just dial that
and everything will be cool.
All right,
phones are ready to go.
Let's take our first phone call,
which will probably be Rebel,
but I'll take it anyway.
Good evening,
you're on the air.
Yes, Emmanuel.
Hi, Merry Christmas.
It's amazing how you can
predict some things,
isn't it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I just want to thank
everybody who's been
emailing me with support
of, you know,
like the way they like
what I say on the air
and they find what I mention
and my discoveries
they find helpful
and useful.
And I encourage people
to keep sending me email.
My email address is
rebel at escape dot com.
Rebel, are you running
for something?
What is this?
A campaign?
No, I'm not running
for a political office.
Well, why do people
have to voice support for you?
I don't understand it.
No, I've just been
getting emails saying
I like what you say
on the air.
I like, you know.
What do you say
on the air?
You know, about my discoveries
and things like that.
People ask me questions
on, you know,
things that I've mentioned.
And I also have
a little website up.
I mean, I'm sort of
trying to get it up.
You have a web page,
you mean?
Web page.
You have a web page.
The Rebel web page.
That is Rebel.
Oh, well, that is
That's hard to say.
Rebel web page.
Rebel web page.
You can't say that.
It's escape dot com
and then there's the
slash, you know,
it's H-T-P-W-W-W.
What does that mean anyway?
Hypertext Transfer Protocol
World Wide Web.
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Who taught him this stuff?
You did.
Oh, okay.
Then there's the slash
and then the tilde
which is right next to the
right next to the
one key.
Now, wait a minute.
It's not always right next
to the one key.
Sometimes it's in a weird place.
Okay, well, the tilde
is that little squiggly thing.
I can't describe it
over the phone.
It's a Spanish accent
type of a thing.
But anyway,
there's that
and then there's Rebel
and then there's
another slash
and then there's
H-T-M-L
Index dot H-T-M-L.
Well, I hope people
are writing this down
because this is a lot.
Oh, yeah.
Everybody in the studio
has got their pens out.
And also, I'd like to ask
on the DMS-10s,
I remember in Upstate
when I went to school,
they had a DMS-10
for the small,
single exchange
that worked as a host
of the DMS-100
which was in another town.
Why is that?
You have it backwards.
The DMS-100 is the host.
Right, the DMS-100
is the host.
Yeah, the DMS-10
is the remote switching module.
Right.
Why is it set up that way?
And then, like,
when you call it,
it doesn't have the SS-7.
It takes a little longer
for it to ring.
DMS-10s came about
as rural switches
that are used
in really remote areas.
I've seen a 5DSS
in a remote area.
Well, that all depends
on how much money
the phone company
was willing to invest
in that area.
DMS-10s are really good
to stick in a cabinet
or a shack
in a remote location
where they would
tend to not have
to have people
there in person
too often.
I see.
And then the host
where all the billing
is done is done,
the DMS-100?
Exactly.
Okay.
I remember you
talking about hackers.
I went to the,
there's a phone
that you can make
free phone calls
in the 9X Payment Center.
I told the phone company
about this
and they were amazed.
they, I said,
they wanted me
to fax them
my resume.
They wanted,
they were trying
to have me get in there
and, you know,
they're trying to have me,
you know,
they want me to go work there.
I told them
that I applied before
and he's going to try,
this person is going
to try and get me in there.
You know,
I gave him
the 2600 article I made.
I told him
about the radio show.
Hopefully,
he's listening now.
But I told him
about everything.
What do you want to do
for the phone company?
I think a good job
would be like,
you know,
like customer service,
maybe like,
you know,
like what the business
office does
or something technical
like what this guy does.
You know,
he's like the line manager
or something.
He does all the like,
he gets all the problems,
I guess.
He's like the troubleshooter
or something.
So I guess they need
somebody that knows
the system
because the guy said that,
you know,
his boss said that,
we'd like to have you
in the company,
you know,
because we need somebody
to...
Got that cohort there,
huh?
Yeah,
that cohort,
yeah.
Well,
now,
that's quite a prospect
having you working
for the phone company,
dialing zero
or maybe getting you.
And you could still
dial zero
and get a 9X operator
to dial an 800 number
and A and I
will not be passed.
Okay.
You have to say
that you have
operator privileges.
You know,
Rebel,
you've been saying that
now for a couple of years.
Why don't we try it?
Yeah,
I'm going to put you
to the test here.
I'm going to actually
see if you can...
I'm going to talk.
Put your money
where your mouth is.
We're going to give you
a 9X operator.
You're going to get an 800...
What 800 number do you go?
The 1-800-CALL-ATT.
Okay,
let's do that.
You're going to connect us
to 1-800-CALL-ATT.
Right.
All right,
hold on a second.
Let's see if I can get
this phone system
to work right.
I'm going to hit the...
Why am I hearing Rebel
seven seconds later somewhere?
Because I'm on a delay
and you're not.
No,
but I'm hearing you
in my ears somewhere.
I don't know
how this is happening.
Don't forget
to put them on hold.
I have to put them
on hold first?
Yeah.
Okay.
And then what?
Then I hit the conf button.
Yeah.
And then you bring him back.
Okay,
hold on.
Let's put him on hold.
Okay,
he's on hold now.
Right.
All right,
now we're going to press
the other button
and then hit the conf?
I think you pick up
a free line.
Okay.
You have a free line here?
Yeah.
No,
I don't think there's
a free line here
because I don't hear it.
Do you?
No,
I don't hear a dial tone.
Okay,
try this one.
No,
there's no dial tone
there either.
There's a dial tone.
Okay.
And now we...
Do we dial first?
You should be able
to conference him right in.
Conf?
And hit him.
Okay,
now we're going to dial.
I'm here.
All right.
Okay.
For some reason,
I touched on this.
Wait a minute,
let me do something.
Why don't you do it?
Whoops.
You have to dial nine first.
This is what you've got to do.
Okay,
do it again.
How do I get rid of this now?
Okay,
hold on.
I've got to put them
both on hold now.
Okay,
I'm going to get rid of that one
and then I'm going to drop this one
and I'm going to get
the dial tone back.
Right.
I'm just going to dial...
All right,
wait.
There we go.
And there.
Go ahead.
Hit nine and then a zero.
And then a pound
to make it go through faster.
How about that?
The things you know.
Nine,
this is Carol.
Yes,
I have operator privileges
and I'd like to dial
800-225-5288.
Okay,
thank you.
Thank you.
Very nice,
very nice.
That was Rebels
operator privileges there.
May I have the number
you're calling from,
please?
Yes,
the number I'm calling from
is area code
212-958-1234.
How can I help you?
I'd like to call
area code
212-279-3400.
Collect.
Thank you.
That line's restricted, sir.
No collect calls
are permitted there.
Oh,
okay,
thank you.
That's what
can get us there.
Now,
is that...
Get rid of this.
Hold on.
Okay,
go ahead.
All right,
now,
if that call
had gone through,
Emmanuel,
if that call
had gone through,
you,
let's say,
that was your number,
you would not get a bill.
I mean,
on your phone bill,
you would not get a bill.
Well,
wait a minute,
I would accept
the collect call.
You would accept
the collect call,
but you would not
get charged for it.
Why would I not
get charged for it?
Because notice I said
that my number
was 212-959.
No,
you said 958.
958,
which is a number
that doesn't exist
in the 212 area.
Well,
that's true,
but they're not
billing that number,
they're billing my number
for accepting
the collect call.
Right,
but it can't say
called from.
They have a database
where in every area code,
every exchange,
that works.
So 959,
958 is not
in that database
of the 212.
So when they enter that,
it can't...
Did that operator
know what part
of the country
you were calling from?
Do you know anything?
The AT&T one?
Yeah.
I don't know.
Could you give her,
say,
the Pentagon's phone number?
You know what,
let's try giving her
another area code,
like 202 or 213.
Let's give it California.
All right,
this is going to be
kind of...
She knows what area code.
Does she know
what area code?
Why does she say
what number
you're calling from?
She wants to last seven.
Let's see what happens
and if she balks
at 213,
say,
oh,
I meant 212.
Right,
okay,
that's a good idea.
Three and a two
are so close together.
Because sometimes
it can get operated
from like the south
or the midwest.
Yeah,
sometimes it can.
How does that work?
All right,
let's do one thing
at a time.
Hold on.
Okay.
Let's,
all right,
I'm getting the hang
of this here.
Okay,
we've got a...
Okay,
9-0,
go ahead.
You want me to do it?
Okay.
Yes.
You know,
you can't do that?
I don't think
our touch tones
are loud enough.
9-0,
say James.
Uh,
yes,
I have operator
privileges
and I'd like to dial
1-800-225-5288.
Thank you
and have a nice evening.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
May I have the number
you're calling from,
please?
Oh,
the number I'm calling
from you want?
Yes.
Oh,
yes,
serial code
213-958-3891.
Thank you.
How may I help you?
Oh,
I'd like to call
516-959-1230.
And your billing,
please?
To collect.
Thank you.
I'm sorry,
sir,
they have a block on it.
No collect calls.
Oh,
okay.
Um,
thank you.
You're welcome.
Well,
that's interesting.
That's very interesting.
Hold on.
Okay,
I think we got rid of it.
Okay.
You there?
Yeah,
I'm here.
So,
now we can give
any phone number
in the country
and,
um,
I wonder what happens
if you say
you're calling
from,
like,
international.
Like,
you know,
like the 888 area code?
I think that's
something that
they'll,
uh,
they'll figure out.
What if they say
710?
Um,
I don't think
that'll work either.
But the thing
that you've proven
is that any area code
works,
any legitimate area code
works.
Are you surprised,
Father?
Uh,
yeah,
I'm actually kind of
surprised because
they should be
getting the area code.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah,
I,
yeah,
I noticed
because when you do,
you know what you do?
Have the 9X operator
dial 1-800-MY-AN-I-IS.
Yeah,
but you still need
that code.
Well,
I have the code
but I won't disclose it.
Yeah,
but you'd have to disclose it.
That's the only way
you could,
you could possibly do it.
But,
um,
that's a,
that's something
that I think
you should try
on your own
and report back to us
and let us know
what happens.
do we have any
other 800 numbers?
800 numbers?
The ANI?
Oh,
we don't know
any offhand here.
but,
um,
hmm.
Well,
we're going to have
to move on anyway
but thanks for the lesson
and,
uh,
and,
the valuable,
uh,
tips that you've given us tonight.
Okay.
All right.
We'll talk to you next time.
Okay.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Whoops.
Yeah,
I cut that person off.
I'm sorry.
Um,
okay,
I guess I should be using
this button there.
Okay,
good evening.
You're on the air.
Hello,
Emmanuel.
Yes.
Good to speak with you.
I've come across
some very interesting
things of late.
When I would get,
like,
uh,
we call,
an out-of-area call
that would show up
in my caller ID box,
I would start six,
nine of them
and I'd notice
that we'll get
the usual recording.
We're sorry,
your call cannot be,
you know,
this service cannot be activated
because the telephone number
is not in our service area.
Mm-hmm.
Once in a while,
I hear what sounds like
office,
like an office
in the background,
like someone,
like,
left the phone off the hook
and I'm hearing,
like,
you know,
people and office paper
shuffling in the background.
During the recording?
No,
no,
that's right,
right before,
right after it clicks.
Really?
Yeah,
um,
another thing,
too,
you were talking
about the DMS-10s
being outposts
for DMS-100s.
Here's a little,
uh,
tidbit I came across
in a college
out in Pennsylvania
when I was on
a conference vacation.
Uh,
AT&T actually made
the number three
crossbar
up until 1973.
Okay.
And,
uh,
you know,
there was,
uh,
a particular point
where AT&T
actually had
enough confidence
in their crossbar
that they were actually
making them
into the 70s.
And another thing
I've come across
is the Rome CBX
phone system.
This is while I was out
in a conference vacation.
Uh,
I was trying to get
a way to interface
my V32 modem
to the phone system.
And obviously
I knew it was digital.
I don't go plugging
in modems digital.
I'm going to have
a smoked modem.
Uh,
some kid from Oregon
figured out
that he'd take
the outermost pair
from the handset
and splice
the, uh,
the pair
from the motor
modem
into the outermost
pair of the handset,
raise the volume
all the way
to maximum,
first dial out
normally,
and then, uh,
once he dialed out
normally,
he could pretty much
use the modem
with no problem.
Mm-hmm.
Uh,
that's all I wanted
to let you know
about that.
That'll work
with the CBX-9000,
right?
Uh,
I believe so.
And there's,
oh,
there's some
very interesting
codes I was reading
through the book
while I was there,
and apparently,
uh,
I think it's like
star 85 or star 86
or 85 or 86
does some very
strange things.
Like what?
I have no idea.
The codes were not
listed,
but it gave me
some strange
talents,
like I was looking
for some kind
of passcode.
Oh,
well,
yeah,
they have,
uh,
they have forced,
uh,
uh,
passcode dialing
on,
on rolling systems.
There's all kinds
of things you can hit.
You get two
high-pitched beeps,
right?
Uh,
yeah,
it's looking,
what the frequencies
were.
It's looking for a
pack code of some
sort.
That's,
uh,
that's standard
on all those
systems.
Oh,
the lower frequency
on the,
uh,
the Kraft and
Crunch whistles,
about anywhere
from 2,000
to 2,100 cycles.
That might actually
be a guard tone
from the old systems.
Well,
I don't think so,
because,
uh,
why would that be
on a Kraft and
Crunch whistle?
Well,
I don't think it
has any purpose
to be in there.
I think it was there.
I remember that,
you know,
I've,
I've almost
perfect pitch,
and I recognize,
you know,
20,
2,100 might have
been a guard tone
from,
for,
uh,
one of the older
variants of R1.
Are we going to blow it again?
Uh,
Fiber's going to blow it again,
and,
uh,
you can hear over the phone,
and then run to your radio
seven seconds later,
you'll hear it there,
too.
Um,
okay,
here comes the second tone.
Here we go,
second tone.
A little higher,
because,
uh,
C is 512,
I think 525 cycles,
the octave above is,
uh,
the 1050,
2100,
the 2200,
because,
uh,
it's definitely over C.
Uh-huh.
Okay,
well,
thanks for the call.
Definitely.
All right,
take care.
You're saying that
we're getting noise
out of the speakers
seven seconds later.
Oh,
how about that?
That doesn't,
uh,
well,
if our engineering staff
is listening outside,
that the speakers
are talking to us
seven seconds later,
and we can't make them stop.
All right,
good evening,
you're on,
oh,
look at that,
they hung up.
Good evening,
you're on the air.
Uh,
yeah,
it's Emmanuel.
How are you?
Uh,
yeah,
I just wanted to know,
uh,
does any of you remember
the old diversity dial systems
in New Jersey?
Uh,
describe them for us,
please.
Well,
they were seven-line chat systems
that ran on Apple IIe's,
um,
some,
some years ago.
Well,
they weren't just in New Jersey,
there were a whole bunch of them.
There was,
there was some in,
uh,
New York as well.
Uh,
yeah,
well,
I just wanted to let everybody
out there know that,
uh,
anybody that remembers Barb,
who ran,
uh,
D-35 along with Flash,
she passed away this past Wednesday.
Oh,
that's too bad.
Hmm.
Uh,
what were those systems like,
not having ever actually used one?
Oh,
they were very well.
I ran one myself
for a number of years.
Uh-huh.
Um,
very nice system.
How many people could be on them
at once?
Uh,
seven.
Seven,
that was the max.
As a matter of fact,
there's one in Illinois
that's still running.
Um,
to this day.
Do you have a number for it?
Uh,
yeah,
uh,
708.
Uh-huh.
Uh,
432-9028.
Okay.
All right,
we're jotting that down.
Thanks,
uh,
thanks so much for the information.
No problem.
Take care.
Have a good New Year,
huh?
You too.
Bye-bye.
Yes,
1996 is just,
uh,
a few days away.
Right around the bend.
Is anything promised for 96?
I mean,
last year was,
the big thing was the area codes.
I mean,
we seem to have survived that pretty well,
the area codes with the weird middle digits now.
Yeah.
Although nobody knows,
you know,
what,
what,
what's,
uh,
I think 757 is now going to be Puerto Rico.
Uh-huh.
I think that's what I,
that's what I heard most recently.
Uh,
so,
uh,
that's one of the more easy ones to remember,
but there's all kinds of crazy ones out there in Florida and California that,
uh,
I don't think people are ever going to remember where area codes are anymore.
They're getting smaller and smaller.
Although New York seems to be pretty,
uh,
safe for the most part.
You know,
no two-on-two split is imminent yet.
Yeah.
Uh,
but it will happen at some point.
Then you'll have two-on-two and like,
you know,
seven-nine-three.
And you'll have to,
uh,
you'll have to remember,
uh,
which is which.
Um,
so,
those,
uh,
those days of easily remembering a number by a territory code are soon to be over.
96,
though,
anything,
um,
nationwide caller ideas already here.
Right.
Although it really isn't all the way here.
Little,
little spurts.
Right.
Um,
we'll probably have the communications bill hitting us pretty hard.
I don't know quite what that's going to do,
how they're going to enforce something like this.
But,
um,
we're going to see some,
some rather interesting test cases,
I think,
and we might even be,
uh,
among the test cases.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Hello,
Emmanuel.
Uh,
it's me again.
Uh,
I thought,
I thought Puerto Rico was three,
four,
zero.
No,
no,
no,
no,
I don't think so.
I could be wrong,
but I don't think that's,
I don't think that's what I read.
I remember reading it a while back.
It was one of the issues of 2600.
You've probably heard some weird ones.
Like,
I got friends down in Sunrise,
Florida,
just a stone's throw out of,
uh,
Fort Lauderdale.
Uh-huh.
Nine,
five,
four.
Yeah,
nine,
five,
four.
Atlanta has got an overlay code,
or did it split,
uh,
as a 770 land code,
or is that still an overlay code?
I think that's a,
that's not an overlay.
I think that's a regular geological.
That's a land code.
Yes,
I believe it is.
In 92,
uh,
I was,
I had spoken about this earlier,
that it was,
there was a split around Atlanta
and the northern part,
which became 706,
which we grabbed from northwest Mexico.
Right.
And,
uh,
from here,
before 1998,
New Jersey,
the 201 area code,
is supposed to split.
What's going to happen is,
201 will only cover
Passaic,
Bergen,
Hudson,
Essex,
and an eastern sliver of Morris.
Everything out to the west of it
will probably be given an XXO designation.
Uh-huh.
And even 609 is splitting.
Now,
how it splits,
I don't know,
but I know 609 is made up of two ladders,
the Atlantic Coastal
and the Delaware Valley.
Actually,
it may split along that line.
You might be interested in this.
I just heard this,
uh,
this past week.
880 and 881,
two area codes that,
uh,
will be run in parallel
with 800 and 888,
uh,
so that you can get
800 calls from outside the country.
So,
in other words,
let's say you're,
you're in Mexico or,
or,
or Canada or something like that.
Right.
And you wanted to call 800,
uh,
uh,
222-0300,
which is 18Bs.
International toll-free inward?
Yeah,
you would,
you would dial 880 instead of 800,
as the,
uh,
as,
I guess,
the city code or,
or the area code.
Thing is,
you wind up paying,
but so does the person picking up the call.
It's sort of like a split.
Ah.
It's not totally toll-free,
but it's,
it's not totally,
uh,
you know,
a toll call either.
There's something weird around my area.
Uh,
when I would,
there was this rumor about this 1-700 local number thing being MCI discount long distance.
Now,
this is a real nasty trick.
You can use,
like,
you have caller ID,
and of course,
the person with caller ID is smart enough to have anonymous call rejection.
So,
let's try to force a call out of the area by dialing star six,
seven,
a 10X code,
the one area to code the number.
Uh,
the trouble is,
if you're in a local call area,
that would,
uh,
that you want to get in the message,
we're sorry,
it is not necessary to use the long distance access code when dialing this number.
Mm-hmm.
Well,
just for the hell of it,
someone was,
I had seen a posting in the net several months ago about what is this 1-700 local number thing?
Well,
I would,
I just tried it out just for the hell of it.
I would dial myself star six,
seven,
and then the number,
and I wouldn't get a busy signal.
I'd get routed to the,
uh,
anonymous call rejection message.
I tried dialing star six,
seven,
a 10X code in my own number.
I would,
I would wind up getting,
it is not necessary to dial an access code for this number.
And then I did star six,
seven,
one,
700,
and my local number,
I got a busy signal,
which meant,
uh,
the,
the caller ID and anonymous call rejection both had been subverted by just dialing that 1-800-N-X-X-X-X-X-X-X.
So it knew,
well,
actually,
is that using A&I or is that using caller ID?
I have no idea,
but all I know is I tried with a friend of mine who has caller ID and anonymous call rejection,
and the call went through and it didn't show up on its box.
It showed up out of area.
Uh-huh.
That's interesting.
I do know this.
It only works from switch to switch.
Well,
I'm not sure if this is related,
but,
uh,
it might be.
Um,
I've played around with 800 numbers going through various,
uh,
different companies.
If you dial your 800 number from the number that it's routing to,
even if you have call waiting,
you'll get a busy signal,
meaning it's,
uh,
it's,
it's interpreting it as if you were calling yourself locally.
Uh-huh.
Which means it has to be getting that information.
All right.
Even though you're,
you're,
you're going far away to do that.
Yeah,
it's,
well,
I'm just saying,
you know,
it's like,
it's one way to protect one's anonymity,
but I noticed that it doesn't work.
It only works,
you know,
in certain switches.
I have a friend of mine who lives north of me,
and his particular switch,
which is a local call away from me,
it doesn't work there.
He tries,
uh,
calling someone,
and you get the,
where it's our,
we cannot,
you know,
your call cannot be completed as dialed.
Right.
Well,
I,
you know,
it,
it depends on a lot of things,
I guess,
you know,
including where you are,
what your central office is programmed to do,
but,
uh,
there are ways of subverting the system.
Uh,
yeah,
there's something else,
too.
Where I work,
if you dial 1-1-1,
the dial tone gets louder,
but if you dial any,
uh,
if you try dialing 1-1-1 again,
you get a reorder.
Really?
Yeah,
it's almost like,
uh,
you know,
the newer Bell,
uh,
Bell pay phones,
you get that volume adjust,
but this is actually done through the central office.
Uh-huh.
As I was just going through it one day at work,
testing out a modem,
and all of a sudden I got a second dial tone,
and I thought I came across a ringback number,
but I,
you know,
I flashed the switch hook,
and I did,
I just got a normal lower,
lower volume dial tone again.
Are you sure it's the same dial tone when you dial 1-1-1-1?
Uh,
yeah.
Because,
uh,
the only thing is that,
uh,
958 doesn't seem to work at that office anymore.
Apparently it's,
uh,
it's,
I get the,
doot,
doot,
doot,
doot,
it's not a,
it's definitely not a reorder.
It's a single frequency.
It almost sounds like,
uh,
you know,
like a malfunctioning,
uh,
answering machine.
Is it coming from your PBX,
or is it coming from the central office?
I have a Panasonic Modular Electronic Switching System.
I like the acronym that it spells out,
because it's exactly that,
mess.
And,
uh,
the lines coming in are not hunted,
because I can call all of them,
and I don't get the message that we've been disconnected,
you know,
this line has been disconnected,
which is typical when you call a number in a hunt group that's associated with a main number.
So this is just all calls coming in,
because I,
I would go through all 12 lines,
and I got all the,
uh,
the ANAC readbacks.
But I noticed that,
uh,
this particular office,
uh,
you dial 1-1-1,
and the dial tone gets louder.
It's like some kind of volume adjust.
You sure it's not your mess doing that?
No,
because,
uh,
I,
I have a,
a regular outside line coming to my,
my fax machine and my modem at work,
and I would dial 1-1-1,
and it gets louder.
Hmm.
That's a,
that's a mystery,
but,
uh,
certainly a new one for me.
I'm sure if you,
if you,
have you tried dialing 1-1-2?
I've tried all that,
and I think,
uh,
after that I just got all reorders.
Uh-huh.
I know some places,
uh,
uh,
specifically up in Farallon,
their central office,
if you hit a pound sign,
you get a reorder.
Well,
yeah,
that,
that,
that can happen.
Oh,
yeah,
that's,
that's fairly normal.
Now,
my particular office,
I was just,
just for the hell of a,
don't do all the pound codes.
Uh,
pound XX,
or Octothorpe XX,
is that like for Centrix,
uh,
functions?
That's for,
that's for nothing functions.
There shouldn't be pound anything.
Well,
no,
there are some central offices.
I would dial pound XX,
and I would get this,
we're sorry,
your call cannot be completed as dialed.
Please check your manual,
or call the business office for assistance.
For IntelliDial,
for instance,
uh,
pound followed by a number
as an intercom call.
Pound first?
Yes.
Not star?
No.
Oh,
really?
I didn't know that.
Because they ran out of star things.
Yeah.
It's too many star things.
Because normally you hit pound,
if you don't hit,
if you hit pound without hitting any digits before it,
normally it'll give you a reorder.
And if you dial something,
uh,
if you dial a two-digit code and hit pound
that doesn't go to anything,
usually you get a recording.
Oh,
over here you get just a lot of,
we're sorry,
your call cannot be completed as dialed.
Right.
But you know,
the only way to do it is to,
is to play around in different circumstances,
in different central offices.
I'll give you an example.
It's a certain central office,
I won't say where,
but it's,
uh,
it's in the area,
it's in the listening range,
where if you dial a certain three-digit code
from a payphone,
only from a payphone this works,
you wind up disabling the payphone for a half hour.
Now that's something.
Uh,
it's kind of like 553 over in,
in Jersey.
You get the,
I know I'm the fellow who's always talking about
waltzing busy,
but,
uh,
I do that to my friend all the time.
Quick,
call me back.
I'm a 553 NXXX.
And all of a sudden,
dun,
bah,
bah,
bah,
bah,
bah,
bah,
you know,
he just blows his head,
you know,
he gets all mad.
But,
uh,
yeah,
they're like 480 or,
you know,
450.
Uh-huh.
Some of those,
some of those have different,
uh,
reactions in different places.
So,
uh,
trying them in,
in,
in different,
uh,
environments can yield you some interesting results.
All right,
that's all I wanted to speak about right now.
Thanks for the,
uh,
comments.
Cool.
All right.
Bye.
Most interesting,
uh,
when was the last time you scanned out an exchange?
Not,
not in quite some time.
It's,
uh,
it's getting more challenging because all the,
all the exchanges are being filled,
you know,
there's so many new phone numbers.
But I guess with the,
with the new area codes,
there's more phone numbers to be,
uh,
to be had.
But it's,
it's hard because,
um,
there's less universal numbers like 958,
950,
um,
things like that.
Not very many.
Not very many left.
I think,
what was that one we saw being,
uh,
allocated recently in New York?
412,
I think.
In New York?
Yeah,
that exchange seems to be popping up everywhere.
I think it was 412 or 814 or something like that.
Well,
there was an 811.
No,
it wasn't that.
It was an 811?
No,
this was a new exchange.
And since area codes like 516 hadn't,
and 914 hadn't,
uh,
required,
uh,
one before area codes in,
in other areas.
Yeah.
Um,
having an exchange that was,
in fact,
an area code as well was not possible.
Mm-hmm.
So,
something like 412 popping up statewide means something.
We don't know what,
but it's,
it's popping up in a lot of places.
So,
it's little things like that,
you know,
but you gotta be on top of it to find the new exchanges before they,
uh,
they actually,
uh,
they actually hit.
Yeah.
Well,
weren't 450 and 480 assigned?
I don't,
well,
those used to be the,
the dead phone thing,
unlike crossbars.
Right.
And it still is in some places.
I think on the island,
they still exist,
but in the U.S. city they don't.
You won't see that on any digital switches though.
Right.
What's,
what's especially funny though,
is it exchanges like 540,
which can cost you maybe $75 a call,
depending on how they,
they,
they program it.
Uh,
over in Jersey,
it's a regular exchange.
Right.
You know,
so that can be very confusing.
Uh,
people in New Jersey,
beeping someone over here,
they're never going to get a call back,
because people are going to assume they're being swindled.
Yeah.
Whereas,
uh,
some,
some people might accidentally not dial the 201 first,
and pay through the nose.
Hmm.
212,
279,
3400.
You were playing with your cough button before,
you want to test it out?
Oh yeah.
Uh,
it looks like it just turns the mic off.
Well,
talk while you,
while you press it,
and see if it actually turns the microphone off.
Okay,
I'm on this mic.
Uh,
yeah,
it went off,
it went off,
and then it fades back on.
And what's talk back?
Hit it.
The only way to find out is to hit something.
Well,
try talking now.
Um,
talking,
and something's happening.
Oh,
release it then.
And,
um,
and am I back?
It must be a button for talk back,
which is the program we have on in the afternoons.
Yeah.
I don't know what they do with it,
but,
uh,
they got their own button,
so they must have a lot of weight.
What's that fourth button?
Uh,
off.
Off.
What?
Turns everything off?
No,
it doesn't work.
Okay,
thank God for that.
And every microphone here has one of those,
except they're too far away from the people sitting at tables.
Can barely,
can barely reach them.
Oh,
they don't have the talk back.
It seems like only I have talk back.
You're the only one with talk back?
Yeah.
Well,
okay,
I get,
you're,
that's the premier guest mic.
Oh,
yeah.
So I'm not quite sure what that means.
Maybe when you're talking back to me.
Yeah.
If you're like giving me some lip or something,
you press that button and it sort of,
uh,
adds echo to your voice or something.
I don't know.
All right,
212-279-3400.
Our listeners have no buttons,
but they do have a phone line.
And,
um,
so we,
we can put them all on hold,
but I think it's more fun to,
uh,
just pick them up as they come in.
Yeah.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Oh,
here we are again.
Uh,
to you again.
Yeah,
that's again.
Well,
uh,
unless you have something dramatic to report.
Well,
I just,
uh,
you tried that thing with the 800 ANI is,
and I had the 9X operator dial it.
Yes.
And what I got was,
your ANI is
212-0000-0000.
Well,
how do you like that?
So they,
they got your area code.
So the operator we got before must have been some kind of a fool to accept 213 as your area code.
I don't know.
I guess so.
Well,
I guess maybe if,
if,
if,
if she saw,
seven zeros,
she might not have had much faith in the 212.
Well,
no,
wait a minute.
The operator did not see seven zeros,
I don't think.
I think she just would have saw an ANI failure and just asked what your number is.
Maybe so.
Yeah,
I don't,
I don't think she would see a partial number.
I think,
Rebel,
I think the best thing for you to do is to call someone collect and have them accept the call.
Which I did.
I just did.
Okay,
and see what number shows up.
No,
no,
I,
no,
I did this with my own phone.
But you think you'll,
you think you'll never get a bill?
No,
no,
I didn't.
I called myself collect with a saying that I was calling from 212-958.
Okay.
And I never got the bill.
But try it this way.
I tried doing it with another number.
Okay,
listen to me,
listen to me please.
Okay.
Now,
first try it with a non-existent number,
then a minute later try it in the same exact circumstances with an existing number of somebody famous or some entity someplace,
and just look for the bill and see if you ever get a bill with the real number on it or with both numbers on it or with no numbers on it.
I tried that and it did work like that.
What happened?
I got,
I,
I recorded the time and date of each call that I made.
I made a log of what number I said that I was calling from.
Okay.
And I got only the number,
like I made two calls.
One call I said that I was calling from a non-existent number like 212-958 or something.
Then I said that I was calling from 212-279-9901 and then,
or something like that.
I gave a 9901.
I remember that.
And then it showed up on the bill.
It's New York City,
New York.
212-279-9901.
So the call did go through.
Yeah,
because the exchange exists.
It only matters when the exchange exists.
I see.
So in this,
in this way you can prove that President Clinton called you collect by waving around your phone bill that shows his phone number calling you and you accepting.
the charges.
Right.
Okay.
Well,
that's,
that's something.
That's,
that's quite a project to undertake.
Um,
I don't know.
That's something I think that people involved in,
in,
in,
uh,
prosecuting various criminal cases should keep in mind when they look at phone bills that they can be forged.
And not just on paper,
but in reality they can be forged.
But when are they going to give caller,
they're not the nationwide caller ID is here.
Aren't they going to reprogram the operator's computers to pass it?
Because I know in New Jersey they do it.
I tried this in New Jersey and the ANI is passed.
Uh huh.
Well,
I guess,
I guess 9X is the answer.
The fact that we have 9X means that it takes a little bit longer.
I don't know.
Is that,
is that a valid assessment?
Oh yeah,
definitely.
In fact,
9X said that they're going to be rolling out a caller's name delivery as well.
It's about time.
I mean,
the rest of the country already has that.
Not that I'm really eager about this kind of thing,
but I'm just saying it,
you know,
if,
if it's technology that everybody's playing with,
you know,
we might as well get to play with it too and figure out ways to,
uh,
to thwart it.
Yeah.
Is when are they going to make it so that the,
um,
caller ID is passed to,
um,
uh,
through the operators?
Cause I know that that's not passed through the operator.
And when you dial a nine five O number,
that's not passed.
I mean,
they have no A and I either.
Well,
they never planned on passing A and I through nine five O number.
That's why it's a nine five O number.
Right.
But you can make free phone calls that way by dialing nine five O access code.
And you can make a collect call that way.
Sometimes they'll put a,
they'll tack a number onto the bill.
Like in other words,
I'll dial nine five O let's say one zero zero three,
which is,
um,
am next.
Um,
they'll give you a second dial tone.
One zero zero three is RCI.
Uh,
I'm sorry.
Um,
there are three seven.
Oh,
I'm sorry.
That's not next.
And they'll give you a second dial tone.
At that dial tone,
you're supposed to dial a phone number,
a seven digit number.
I could dial nine five nine one two three zero.
Right.
Now I think sometimes,
um,
uh,
they'll,
they'll tack a number onto your bill.
I've done this.
I've gotten a call from,
from,
uh,
Georgia.
And,
um,
you know,
they said that,
it's a pay phone.
Yeah.
So I,
I mean,
um,
they sometimes tack numbers.
Like when I use the phone in a train in,
uh,
or on a plane,
like,
um,
one of those air phones or while I'm flying somewhere,
I'll use an air phone with my credit card or I'll,
I'll be like on one of those rail phones.
That number that's calling from,
if I charge it to my regular bell,
you know,
nine X calling card,
they'll put a number on it,
like,
um,
a number in the two Oh two area.
Well,
no,
that's,
that's a valid number.
Those are the numbers that those cellular phones are attached to.
They don't accept incoming calls.
No,
no.
Cause I did one 800,
my A and I is,
and I got the phone number of the phone,
but it's no way I got the phone number of the actual phone that I was calling from.
It was your one 800,
my A and I is.
And it did not match what I was calling from when I got the bill.
So it's not necessarily the same number every time.
Yeah.
It depends on who's on at what time.
It depends on where you're flying over.
It depends on any number.
They can change within minutes,
within seconds even.
But you know,
here's a project that I think you might find interesting.
Next time you're on an Amtrak train or next time you're on an airplane someplace.
Right.
Uh,
when you use those,
those,
uh,
those air phones,
calling information anywhere in the country is free.
It doesn't cost anything.
So you could easily pay for your trip by getting a list of phone numbers that,
or,
or names of people you want numbers for,
charging them say only 60 cents instead of 85 cents and spending the whole time on the phone.
I should tell that to USA.
Well,
don't tell it to the airlines or they'll start charging.
But,
uh,
that's,
uh,
that,
that's one thing which I can't understand.
And it's rare that I can't understand why,
why they don't charge.
So no,
in other words,
I could use my bell operating calling card or a credit card and it will not be billed to it.
Information will not be billed to it.
So they,
they charge you for 800 numbers.
They charge you for 800 numbers.
That's correct.
But they don't charge you for information.
But the,
the information will not pass you to the number that you're calling.
No,
they won't have those neat little recordings that,
uh,
say for an additional 35 cents.
No,
they won't do that.
Listen,
Rebel,
we got,
we got to go and take one more phone call,
but thanks for the information.
All right.
All right.
Um,
we'll try to fit in one more phone call.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hi.
Uh,
I'm just wondering if you can help me with a,
um,
a problem we've been having in calling Peru.
Calling Peru.
Yes.
Anybody know the country code for Peru?
Um,
no,
the problem is that they say that the,
the country is,
uh,
blocking all calls coming in from our area.
And we've had relatives 50 blocks down,
um,
call,
call,
and they can't get through.
And we've had,
uh,
relatives from Connecticut call,
and we can't get through.
Are those Maoist rebels up to something?
Yeah.
No,
they said it's,
it's due to fraud.
Oh,
okay.
I know what's happening.
How are you making your phone call and through what company?
Uh,
Walt?
I'm sorry?
Walt?
How do you spell that?
Oh,
those,
uh,
W-A-L-D people.
Who's W-A-L-D?
That's the,
uh,
Working Assets Long Distance.
Ah,
okay,
well then what you need to do,
since they're apparently blocking calls because they believe every call to that country is fraudulent,
simply write it through another,
uh,
another,
uh,
long distance company.
No,
no,
it's,
I think it's,
they say that the country is blocking it,
not that.
No,
that's not possible.
Why would they want to block my call?
Because apparently their,
their rationale,
and I have to wrap this up pretty quickly,
their rationale is that every,
uh,
the vast majority of calls coming from your area to that country are,
are calls that they will never collect on,
so they'd rather not get your business than,
than take a loss.
Well,
it's happening on AT&T as well.
Uh,
not for one plus.
They can't block for one plus.
For zero plus,
they,
they've been blocking.
For calling card calls,
they've been blocking.
But not for one plus.
Try dialing 10288,
one,
or 011.
Or 011,
yeah.
And see if that,
what is that,
one?
10288,
011,
and then country code,
city code number.
Wait a minute.
One,
two,
oh,
no,
102,
102,
1-0-2-8-8.
1-0-2-8-8.
8-8.
And then 011.
011.
Then your country code,
your city code,
and your phone number.
Okay, fine.
That should go through.
We'll try it.
All right,
good luck.
Let us know.
All right.
And that's,
uh,
going to do it for us here tonight.
Um,
another edition of Off the Hook is now history.
Uh,
as soon as I find my theme music,
we can be on our way out of here.
There it is.
Okay,
we'll be back again next week for the first show of 1996.
The telephone keeps ringing.
Thanks everybody for listening,
and thanks for all the information.
We'll see you next week.
Um,
take care,
have a happy new year,
and,
uh,
maybe we'll see you at the marvels of ISDN
in Bryan Park on New Year's Eve sometime.
Take care.
Good night.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Bom Digli Bombo,
the best expect the worst.
I hope that's understood.
Bom Digli Bombo.
Thank you.
Thank you.
And you are tuned to listener-sponsor WBAI-FM in New York City, where we're all trying
to learn how to run this new board.
Coming up now is Housing Notebook, as it is 9, 9 p.m. in the evening.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Paint peeling off the wall, dirt piling in the hall, ice on the pipes but no steam at all.
Landlord, landlord, lowdown, rotten, good for nothing.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.