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When I thought that hope was really gone, you showed me I was gone.
Come, you masters of war.
This Tuesday night, Wednesday morning at 1.30 a.m., Weaponry turns Inside Out for Women's Month and becomes...
Disarming with Eleanor Elizabeth Foreman as host and with special guest Colleen Gallagher, an honest-to-goodness, honorably discharged, conscientious objector to the Gulf War.
There'll be listener phone calls, music, and the beginning of readings from The Politics of Nonviolent Action by Gene Sharp, the Machiavelli of nonviolence.
Tune in for war by other means.
That's Tuesday night, Wednesday morning at 1.30 a.m.
And you turn and run farther when the fast bullets fly.
Now, just wait a minute.
Some of us will be very happy to be on at 1.30 in the morning.
In fact, some of us will be happy to be on at 3 in the morning, or at all, for that matter.
But it's 8 o'clock in the evening now, and that means it's time for Off the Hook.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I reeled it up to off.
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
It could be yet much worse, but if they could, they would.
Bumbin' your bum, but I best expect the worst.
I hope that's understood, Bumbin' your bum!
Bumbin' your bum!
And a very good evening to everybody.
This is yet another edition of Off the Hook.
Rather momentous one, I would say.
This is the day that Bernie S. went before a judge to be sentenced.
And we have the results of that trial, I guess.
And what it means for all of us.
Hopefully, we'll be hearing from him pretty soon.
Keeping an eye on the phone there.
Fiber Optics here with us today.
How you doing, Fiber?
Wrong microphone again, sorry.
Okay.
How are you, Manuel, again?
I'm just fine.
We have a few people that went with us to the event today, I guess is the best way to phrase it.
And, you know, it's always kind of disheartening going to a thing like that.
Going to a sentencing.
It hasn't happened all that often in our lives, but it's happened enough so that we kind of know what it's like and know what the ramifications of it are.
Bernie S. we've been talking to over the past few months as this living hell has dragged on.
And today, he finally found out what his fate was to be.
I won't drag it out as far as giving the answer.
So, they sentenced him to more prison time.
Not a whole lot more.
Basically, six months to 24 months.
It sounds like a lot, but what it basically means is that he should be out by July.
So, in that regard, I talked to him afterwards.
In that regard, it means that at least there's an end in sight of some sort.
But, it's still way, way too much for what we're talking about here.
Where do I begin?
Well, first of all, let me introduce a couple of people that were there at the same time.
Master Chemist and Izzy.
How are you doing?
Good.
How are you?
Okay.
Good to do.
We sent a few people over there to see what was going on.
And...
It's scary.
It always is scary to be in a situation like that where you see a friend of yours standing
before a judge, standing before people that want to make him suffer as much as possible.
And that's really what it boils down to.
And hearing things that just make you so angry and upset and knowing that you can't do anything
about it.
This radio show actually came up.
WBAI was mentioned by the Secret Service as one of the reasons why Bernie S. should be imprisoned.
Because...
And this is the part I really...
I had trouble following this.
The judge cut Tom Varney off.
Tom Varney is the Secret Service agent who has spearheaded this thing since last year.
It's like...
I don't know.
There must be some sort of a blood feud going on between Bernie S.'s family and Tom Varney
because I've never...
I've never seen anyone go after, you know, someone with such a passion, you know, except
for the Hatfields and McCoys or something like that.
I don't know.
There's something...
There's something about Bernie S. that Tom Varney really does not like.
And 50 years from now, he will appear on a stand someplace saying why he is a threat to
society and has to be locked up for as long as possible.
I mean, there were no limits here.
He would lock him up for eternity if he could.
You know, he never said anything at all redeeming about this guy.
And this is someone who was found with a software program, with crystals and books, things like
that, touch-tone dials, touch-tone dialers, and yes, one red box, although he's never
accused of using it.
And for that seven months in federal prison with hardened criminals, mobsters, people like
that, that wasn't enough.
No, that didn't do it.
There has to be more.
There has to be more of a penalty.
Where does it end?
Well, it didn't end today.
It continued.
He's been in prison for about three months since January, and he'll be in prison for
about another three months, at least.
Something still could go wrong with that, although hopefully it won't.
Hopefully the end will occur.
But this is not the end of the case by any means.
They will still be watching him very, very closely and just pouncing at the first opportunity.
For reasons we still don't quite understand, we have some idea.
We think it's because of the pictures of Secret Service agents that he happened to have
because a friend of his had given them to him, and they kind of freaked out when they
went to his house, and so are those.
It's also to send a message, to send a message to us, to our listeners, to the readers of 2600.
2600 was also mentioned as proof that this person was a danger to society.
A lot of things that you would take for granted, a lot of things that are part of our daily lives,
you know, electronic equipment, phony identification, okay?
That was one thing.
That was one thing that I thought was really funny.
They said that he had a fake identification card, and it was like a fake press card.
What the Secret Service did not mention, though, was that on the other side of the press card,
it said, push.
So it was kind of like a joke, you know, where you put weird, funny names on things,
but they made it into some sort of weird conspiracy.
And everything, everything that he did was looked upon in the gravest sense.
It was almost funny to see this, to see this gross distortion.
Let's see, they mentioned a few things here.
They mentioned, they mentioned Bernie S. writing in his diary that he had tapped phone lines.
Now, what this turned out to be was that Bernie S. in the past had listened in on cordless telephone calls,
which was not even illegal at the time.
It happens to be illegal now, but it was not illegal then.
So, yeah, sure, I've done the same thing.
A lot of us have.
It's not a big deal.
You turn on a radio and you listen.
Hardened criminal here.
They rambled on about some nonsense having to do with a voice-activated tape recorder,
which I guess he used in conjunction with the scanner,
which seems like a logical thing to do if you want to hear people's phone conversations.
I mean, I'm not saying listening to people's phone conversations is right,
but if you're stupid enough to use a cordless phone,
you should know that people are listening to you.
It's obvious, you know.
You have to scramble your signal and code it in some way,
or else people are going to be listening.
That's just how it works.
And you can make all the laws in the world.
It's not going to change that fact.
And it's also not going to vilify these people that happen to do it,
just for curiosity's sake.
What else?
His lawyer brought up the point that he was locked up with 23
of the most dangerous criminals in Pennsylvania,
23 of them, because he was in with the maximum security people,
because his bail was so high.
It was initially $250,000.
It was lowered finally to $100,000.
Wow.
So he was up there with murderers, rapists,
all kinds of people that really aren't in his social group, so to say.
You guys have any feedback, import questions?
Izzy?
I liked when they talked about the white plastic stuff.
The white plastic stuff.
The Secret Service had made a point of talking about these white plastic cards,
which they insinuated were blank credit cards that were ready to be encoded
for some kind of illicit purpose.
Right.
And they went on to say that they found a number of credit cards in his name
with very high balances.
Yeah, now the credit cards were in his name.
I have high balances, too.
Does that be a potential criminal?
So they find credit cards, and they look these up,
and it's, yeah, it's your credit card,
but you have a high balance on that,
so that makes you, you know.
Suspicious.
Very suspicious.
And, yeah, he was interested in how magnetic strips work.
We all are.
You know, we read credit cards through card readers
to see what they say, what's on there.
But the Secret Service didn't mention that he had an encoder or a reader.
I'm not even sure if he did have one of those.
I mean, they didn't mention that he had an embosser.
They mentioned that they had a logo from a credit card company
or a store card or anything like that.
They were just white, blank pieces of plastic.
Right.
They could be anything.
They could be anything, exactly.
There's all kinds of legitimate reasons for making cards of your own
and for learning how the whole...
Maybe he has a fan club.
I mean, we don't want technology to remain a secret, do we?
We don't want every bit of how the phone company works,
how credit cards work, how computers work.
We don't want all that to be stifled.
People should be out there experimenting and trying new things.
You know, I think that he was sentenced today
just because of the judge thinking of him as a wise guy.
He used that phrase at one point.
Yeah, he did.
He said, you, sir, are a true wise guy or something like that.
And it was almost funny because...
I mean, it was a pathetic spectacle, I have to tell you.
And he practically has bronchitis or tuberculosis or something.
He's been coughing nonstop for about four weeks now.
He was up there in front of the judge,
doubled over, coughing, almost for the entire hearing.
Occasionally somebody would bring him a glass of water,
which he'd try to drink in his handcuffed hands.
Right, and he had to bring the...
I mean, what is the point of keeping somebody in shackles like that?
You know, it's...
The strange thing is that the judge was saying
how he was not a physical threat to society,
but yet he was in shackles.
He had a belt around him, tying the handcuffs to his waist.
Not a physical threat.
What, is he a mental threat of some sort?
There were like six officers with guns,
one in each corner of the room,
and like two throughout the court.
I think a few were for us, too.
Of course.
Now, I was told that some of them were staring at us.
Is that...
Oh, definitely.
What did you...
Because I was just focusing on what was going on in the front.
When the Secret Service agent went to testify before the judge,
there was another gentleman,
if I could say that word,
came in loosely.
Look for a minute.
Look for a minute.
That came in with him and stood inside the court.
Like, he passed through that little swing door,
and he had his head turned towards the judge
and, like, half an ear cocked listening to the testimony,
and his eyes were peeled sharply on you.
On me.
I'm sorry I missed this.
The yellow hair, remember?
Mm-hmm.
This awful toupee.
I mean, really yellow, orange, hay, strong,
I did see a yellowish object at one point,
but I wasn't sure what it was.
It's an odd color.
Supporting the NBO suit.
So, okay, so this person was keeping...
He was keeping an eye on us,
but you say he was keeping an eye on me.
What did he expect me to do?
First of all, they passed it through two metal detectors.
Two metal detectors.
They brought in a metal detector just for us.
Mm-hmm.
They brought in a special metal...
First you go into...
First you go into the court building.
Right.
But then we went into the courtroom,
and this wasn't there last time.
They set up a special metal detector.
I don't know what the point is.
It wasn't there before the trial started,
because we walked down to the end of the court.
Uh-huh.
Not you and me, someone else,
and we walked down to the end of that building.
They really thought we were up to something.
And we saw the corridor.
I don't remember seeing that metal detector there,
but when we came back to go into the courtroom...
It was a portable Friscom system.
Uh-huh.
And they were finding metal, like, you know,
on my bare arm and things.
You know, it didn't make any sense.
But when you first, Izzy, when you first went in,
they questioned you, you know,
why are you here?
What was your relation to this case?
We got there at 8 o'clock this morning,
and you guys hadn't arrived yet,
and we went into the lobby,
and I asked the security guard
where the Cummings case was being held.
Hang on.
Let's see if he's on here.
Hello?
Hello?
Uh, nope.
Somebody transferred to the wrong line, I think.
All right.
Sorry.
Continue.
And I said,
no, we don't know anything about that.
I said, well, when will somebody know?
Because there was no one at the information desk,
and I said, well, someone should be here around 8.30.
I said, okay.
So as I was walking out,
there was another sheriff from Easton, Pennsylvania,
who walked out ahead of me,
and when I got to the car, he said to me,
where are you from?
I said, I'm from New York.
Where are you from?
Which might not have been the best one.
Probably not, although if you're from New York,
you can do things like that.
And he said that he was from right here,
and that made him sound very important.
And he asked,
are you a friend of Mr. Cummings?
I said, no, actually, I've never met him.
And Walter spoke up and said,
yeah, he knows Ed,
and that we were here for the trial.
And he said that, well, you can't keep the car here.
You have to move it away.
So we went and parked and came back
and met up with you guys.
But, I mean, it was just my first introduction to this.
And here's this sheriff from the Easton, Pennsylvania,
I mean, this striving metropolis
and downtrodden PA.
Right.
And he thought of himself as very important.
Now, you went through with your umbrella, and they...
Well, this was at the second metal detective.
The second metal detective.
Right before we walked in.
And you take everything out of your pockets,
and you have to pass the umbrella through.
And the security guard was looking at it,
and he opened it up, and then he closed it,
and he went,
ooh, great sound.
That is a great sound.
Let's do that one more time.
Did that come across well?
That came across great.
Let's try it again.
Oh, that's amazing.
That is an umbrella.
Yeah.
But they gave it back to you after they did that
a few dozen times.
Well, maybe we should actually say hello
to all our new Secret Service friends.
Well, yeah, I think the Secret Service
has finally figured out how to listen to the radio station
instead of trying to threaten the radio station
into, A, giving up tapes,
and, B, stopping the broadcast.
But they are listening,
and they made it as if Bernie S.
was violating some sort of sacred oath
by talking about his case.
to the public.
And, you know,
what did they expect him to do?
Sit in solitary confinement someplace
and just not talk to anybody
or complain about the way he's being treated?
You know, the judge said he shows no remorse.
You know, well,
I wouldn't show much remorse
for a system that does something like this
to somebody.
I mean, he has always been straightforward
with exactly what it is he's been doing.
And whether it's
something you agree with
or something you don't agree with,
he came forward with everything.
If you ask him a question
about a particular
aspect of his life
that wasn't clear,
he would explain it to you
without any hesitation whatsoever.
It's these dimwits
that don't understand
what the technology is
in the first place
that jump to conclusions.
Well, I'll say, like,
the one chance I did get
to talk to him
at PumpCon in Philadelphia,
just a very straightforward,
honest person,
very interested in teaching others.
Right.
So it's actually
to his disservice
that he's so honest
and straightforward
because the court is obviously
taking that,
you know.
Right.
And, you know,
sometimes there's just
a lot of ambiguity
with some of the items
that they found
and they may not understand
the technology.
Do you remember
the Secret Service guy
said that they found
a mercury switch?
Yeah.
And the state's attorney
was questioning
the Secret Service guy
and said,
well, what do you use
a mercury switch for?
And obviously,
the Secret Service guy
said, well,
it's used in,
I don't think he used
the word bomb,
but I think in, like,
explosives devices
or something like that.
Well, he tried to imply
that the only purpose
for a mercury switch
would be to build a bomb.
Right.
They're trying to paint
this character,
and there's absolutely
nothing backing that up.
And then Bernie's attorney
went on to question
the same guy
and said, well,
can't you also use
a mercury switch
essentially for a thermostat
or for anything,
which is a perfectly
legitimate use for that?
Absolutely.
I think for the most part,
the judge threw out
a lot of what
the Secret Service
was saying.
Well, he said,
you know,
obviously he's not
a terrorist,
and I'm just basically
going to disregard
most of this,
but I think
the Secret Service
tried to demonize him.
Absolutely.
That's putting it mildly.
I sat there listening
to this,
and I thought
if I didn't know
any better,
I would think
that he was no worse
than the guys
that were put on trial
here for terrorist activities.
I mean,
it sounded awful,
and the case
still hasn't resolved
the question,
is it wrong
to have information
on how to make a bomb?
Is that so wrong?
I mean,
that question
hasn't been answered.
See,
no matter,
we have to keep
bringing this back
to what is this case
really about,
and no matter
what you say,
no matter
how you interpret
the facts
and say things
and put forth
innuendos
and things like that,
what we are talking
about is,
A,
instructions on
how to build
a red box
which disappeared
while he was
in custody,
and which,
in fact,
as many of us know,
was not even
done by him
in the first place,
was one of his cronies
that he just
never wanted
to rat on,
I guess,
basically taking
a piece of,
and it sounded
ridiculous when
they mentioned
it today in court
that,
yeah,
the cop brought
them into the room
and left them there
with the evidence
and went into
another room,
and when he came back,
the evidence
wasn't there anymore.
A lot of problems
with that stuff.
I mean,
come on,
how stupid
can you get?
I mean,
if you,
first of all,
obviously they weren't
told that was evidence,
they weren't put
under arrest,
they were left there,
the guy went away,
did something,
came back,
in fact,
he even let them go,
and then he discovered
later that,
you know,
that the evidence,
quote unquote,
was gone,
it was a piece of paper,
and today,
I also found out
that they,
initially they had said
that the batteries,
taking the batteries
out of the tone dialers
was a big offense,
but they later
put batteries back
into them,
and then they discovered
that only one of them
worked.
Now,
I don't see how
they could take batteries
out of a tone dialer
and make it stop working
when new batteries
are put in.
It probably either
wasn't working
in the first place,
or they put the batteries
in upside down,
or something.
Well,
just by the fact
of them putting
batteries into
a piece of evidence,
I think constitutes
evidence tampering.
Well,
yeah,
that's just a minor
legal issue.
But anyway,
we're talking about,
you know,
instructions for
building a red box.
Hey,
what's illegal
about having instructions
on how to build
a device?
As far as I know,
using a device
to defraud a phone company,
that's what's illegal.
But even if you're
caught doing that,
a year in prison?
A year with the most
dangerous criminals
in the world?
I don't know.
So we're talking about that,
we're talking about
the removing of the batteries,
both of which he never did
in the first place,
let's face it.
And the second thing
which happened last year,
which was having the software
and having the crystals
for modifying various
electronic objects,
is software
which allows you,
after doing
a few more things,
allows you to copy
a cellular extension,
something which someone
else was charged with
and found not guilty,
even though he was
much more blatant about it,
he actually sold boxes
to people that would
do just that,
and Bernie simply
had software
that could be used
for that effect.
It's already been proven
that that is not
a violation of any law
to do that.
What makes it very scary
is that the Secret Service
made it very apparent
today in open court
that they have
the manpower,
they have the time
and the money,
and they plan to use
cases like this
to give them license
to do whatever
the hell they want
anyway.
Yeah, I...
It was a very scary
experience.
I read that too.
I read that they'll be
doing a lot more
of this kind of thing,
that they're targeting
people like us,
they're listening
to the radio program,
they're reading
the magazine,
and they're just waiting
for some opportunity
to do something.
But what they don't
understand is they
could come after us,
they could do
whatever they want to us,
but it's not going
to change anything.
The feeling that I got
was that if you're
somebody out there
that's very interested
in learning things,
regardless of what
the topic is,
you need to be aware
of what's in your house
because the feeling
that I got is that
nobody's safe anywhere.
It's that if you want
to have something secure,
put it in a self-storage
place and have it
under a different name
or something like that.
Just don't have it
all laying around your house.
But you see,
the thing is...
And that's sad.
Yeah, it's a paradox
because doing that
makes sense,
but if they discover
that you're doing that,
it makes you look guilty.
It makes you look like
you're trying to hide something.
And all you're trying
to do is protect yourself
against these wanton
searches and seizures.
Well, the way the Secret Service
comes across and says,
oh, he also had copies
of 2600,
that's a hacker magazine.
Yeah.
The whole court's faces
were in disgust.
I mean, they barely understand
what's inside these issues.
I know, I know.
It's a very scary situation.
Imagine how I felt
sitting up there
hearing him say this
as evidence as to why
he should lock somebody up
because they have copies
of a magazine.
Yeah, this is a radio show
and he does interviews, right?
Yeah, and you know,
he started to say something else.
He started to say,
and his followers
have taken it upon themselves
and that's when
the judge stopped him.
I wish I knew
what he was going to say
about people like us,
what we have taken it
upon ourselves to do.
I think this is definitely
just the beginning
of those things
we're going to hear
from the Secret Service.
And one of my favorite parts
was about the email
to the president
and the...
Oh, yes.
And Mrs. Clinton.
Email was received
by the president
of the United States
and Mrs. Clinton,
was that it?
Right.
Concerning this,
which means I guess
they read their email,
but yes, so?
So somebody sent them
email about Bernie S?
But they must get
thousands of messages
every day about
various people
who are on trial
for whatever
or various political issues.
I mean, I don't think
it was Bernie S
doing it from prison,
so what's the point?
I didn't get it.
Yeah.
That was...
I kind of wish
they had let him finish
because I wanted to see what...
He said that he had
no plans of, like,
doing anything like this again.
His attorney, like,
repeatedly said to the judge
that, you know,
his client was aware
of him that had been
reprimanded sufficiently
with being in jail
for a year,
and yet the judge,
you know,
still felt,
no, I'm not going
to let him out.
So a lot of things
need to be clear.
Although one thing
which I do think
should be mentioned
is that publicity
definitely made a difference.
Mm-hmm.
I was speaking to him
after the hearing
we visited a little later,
and he said that
he had heard
from someone else
in the prison
that they wanted
to give him
a lot more time,
but they couldn't.
Because of the press.
They couldn't
because of the attention.
I didn't know
the legal system
worked like that.
It does.
And you know
that the attention
made a difference
because, A,
there were newspaper
reporters there.
Mm-hmm.
B, there was
a brand new
metal detector there.
C, they were kind of
held back
in what they were doing.
You know,
I mean, to us,
it didn't seem
that way at all.
It seemed like
it was horrible
what they were doing,
but they could have
been so much worse.
What did Bernie say
about the attitude
of the judge
in a room
filled with people?
Well, the demeanor
of the judge
changes proportionally
to the number
of people
that are in the room.
Mm-hmm.
When, and this
is an interesting story,
when he was first
brought before this judge,
this was way back
when the piece
of paper disappeared.
Mm-hmm.
That's what this case
really all revolves around,
a piece of paper
disappearing.
And, you know,
it's like a piece of paper
that we would print
in the magazine, too.
That's what really
bothers me about this.
It's like a page
of 2,600,
and because that disappeared,
he's tampering
with evidence.
It's just so insane.
So, he was brought
before this judge
to face sentencing
for that.
He was sentenced
to, I think,
three years of probation
or something,
and he had to appear
once a month.
And the judge
wouldn't let him
appear close to his home.
He said,
you have to come
all the way out here
to Northampton
and appear once a month.
Now, Bernie's license
had been suspended
at that point,
and he asked the judge,
well, you know,
my license is suspended
and I can't drive up here
every, you know, easily.
And you know what the judge
said in response to that?
What?
Every two weeks.
He doubled the time
because he tried to,
he tried to change it
based on that.
And today,
the judge gives him
a long lecture
about his lousy
driving record
and the fact that
his license is suspended.
And by the way,
how did you get up here?
You know,
so you have to wonder,
what's really going on here?
It's like a catch-22.
There's no way you can win.
Well, people need to,
uh,
people need to...
Seriously educating themselves
about what the Secret Service
is doing.
So instead of them
just showing up at your door,
we should pretty much
be monitoring
what they're doing also.
Yeah.
You see,
they can't do this kind of thing
if people know
what they're doing,
if they're aware
of what's going on,
if they speak out against it.
A lot of people
spoke out against it.
Not enough, though.
I don't think enough people
have spoken out against
this whole issue.
There were a lot of people
in power, I think,
who could have done something
who didn't.
Well, if people can request
the transcript
of what was said
in the court,
it's a very sobering experience.
Right.
Very sobering.
We're trying to get a hold
of that ourselves.
It should definitely be
made available
somewhere on the web.
Absolutely.
We're open to suggestionists
to how to proceed
at this point.
Obviously,
this is not going
to go away.
This is not the last time
something like this
will happen.
And I'm sure
the Secret Service
will look upon this
as a green light
to do all kinds
of other things.
And it's a frightening
situation we're all facing.
And we feel it very,
very deeply here
at this show.
We feel it at the magazine.
We feel it just among
the people we hang out with.
Basically,
we're being targeted
because of what
our interests are,
because of what it is
we talk about,
because of our openness
on exposing certain things
when we find them.
And speaking of exposing
certain things
when we're finding them,
you may,
those of you who have access
to the internet,
to the World Wide Web,
you may want to be around
tomorrow night,
9 o'clock,
on our website.
Oh, yes.
We're opening a special page
and we're going to
dedicate this one
to the Secret Service.
So.
A lot of good pictures
in that one.
Well,
we don't want to give away
too much,
but it's tomorrow night,
9 o'clock,
on our website,
so it might be
an interesting place to be.
And it's not something
we're doing
to be obnoxious.
It just coincides.
Well, it's something
we're doing because
we have the right
to do this.
Well, we think we do.
If we don't have
the right to do this,
then we have to see
laws that say
we do not have
the right to do what,
I don't want to give away
too much information,
but everything,
everything that we do
is legal,
above the board,
and the things
that we see
that's happening
are,
the rules are changing.
It's becoming
much more restrictive.
And, basically,
I don't think the Secret Service
is planned by rules,
to be quite honest with you.
No, no.
Well, when you're,
you know,
an army of 2,000 people
around the country
with guns,
and I'm just talking
about the special agents,
not everybody,
but about 4,000
of them all together,
you can pretty much
set your own rules.
And when the Secret Service
rolls into town,
people tend to listen.
And you say,
this person's dangerous,
this person is evil,
this person should be
locked up.
There's not much
questioning going on.
Not much at all.
So, yeah,
they're not good enemies
to have.
Unfortunately,
they've declared
themselves enemies.
There is nothing
that people of our kind
have done
that warrants
this kind of abuse,
this kind of response
from them.
They basically said
that it's open hunting season
on hackers
or people that are
interested in hacking
technology
or just interested
in technology at all.
And, you know,
there's got to be
a reaction to that.
People don't take
that kind of thing kindly.
People who are
individualistic in mind
are going to react
against that.
And I can't imagine
what is going
through their minds,
what they think
they are going to accomplish
by alienating
an entire culture,
by using these kind
of tactics
in a free society.
It's going to come back
to haunt them.
I'm certain the day
will come
when they will be
held accountable
for what they have done
to this one person,
to God knows
how many other people.
I'm sure justice
will prevail.
Only if people
get it together.
Yeah.
A lot of people
have it together.
Well, get it together
to, like, focus
and deal with them
specifically.
I just think there aren't
enough powerful people
who are willing
to step forward
and say something
about this.
A few more,
it could have made
a difference.
It could have really
done something.
A lot of people
spoke up.
A lot of people
wrote letters
and sent email
and various other
things like that,
but, you know,
there's a lot of people
there that could
really move mountains
with just a couple
of words,
but, you know,
it might not be
politically opportune.
One thing I think
that needs to be said
is that,
especially,
I can say from
seeing him in person
today,
is that just to
reinforce if anybody
has anything
they want to mail him,
if that's possible.
I don't know
if that address
we still have for him
is valid,
but he's a person
who's in pain
physically and spiritually
and definitely
needs some support
from us.
Yeah,
you know,
at least we see
an end in sight now,
three months more
to go.
We hope so.
Yeah,
but we don't know
what's waiting for him
when he gets out,
what they're going
to pull on him
at that point,
and we also
don't know
what it's like,
you know,
except maybe for Fiber,
what it's like
to be in a situation
like that
for an extended
period of time.
He's held up
incredibly well.
I have never seen
anybody go through
such a situation
and still keep
a sense of humor,
and he really,
I would be a lot
more bitter than he is.
He was bent over
and coughing
and almost passing out
in the courtroom
for the whole,
what was it,
an hour or something?
I had to look away
for quite a bit of this
because it was
such a spectacle
seeing this guy
doubled over,
and the judge
was ignoring him.
He was coughing
his guts out,
and he didn't even
seem concerned
with his plight.
He was just basically
saying,
well,
you know,
probation is not
the answer for you.
That's not going
to work.
It was just nonsense.
But yet he's not
a physical threat.
It was ridiculous.
It's enough to make
you lose a lot
of faith
in the whole system,
but again,
as I said,
I think in the end
with enough people
doing something,
I mean,
I was very heartened
to hear that the
publicity had a good
effect.
Some people thought
it might have
a bad effect,
but I think
when you put pressure
on people,
people making
these decisions,
it's got to do
something.
Staying quiet
is never the answer.
Anyway,
if you want
to send an email,
you can do that,
bernys at 2600.com,
and we'll forward
it over to him.
I don't have
his other address
there,
but you know,
if you finger
the site,
bernys at 2600.com,
it gives you
the snail mail
address as well.
Okay,
so that's pretty
much it
for the Bernie S saga.
I guess he's not
going to be getting
through to us today.
I was kind of
afraid that would
happen.
Last week,
he wasn't able
to get through
because they
guess what,
they kept him
locked up
for the hour
that we were
on the air.
They might be
getting some
suggestions to do
that by certain
people,
who knows?
But one way
or another,
we will get
the information
to you.
Okay,
Fiber,
to just change
gears a little bit,
we'll be taking
phone calls
in a couple
of minutes,
but we've got
a few things
to update people
on.
We mentioned
this last week
for only a
brief moment
and that was
the AT&T
venture into
the internet.
Gosh,
I hope we're
not offending
anybody by
talking about
this or having
files open up
on us by
wanting to
know more,
but hey,
we're going
to talk about
this issue
too.
AT&T and
WorldNet,
that's what
it's called,
right?
Yeah,
WorldNet.
What a silly
name.
I don't mean
to insult
the corporate
giants,
but come on,
WorldNet?
First of all,
there are so
many WorldNets
already in existence.
I did a who is
on World.net
on the internet.
It turned out
to be in
Australia.
I don't think
that's what
AT&T is.
Then WorldNet.com
is somebody
else.
Everyone's got
a WorldNet
someplace.
Okay,
so they're
opening up
WorldNet.
What is this?
What kind
of internet
access is this?
They're apparently
claiming that
they want to
offer internet
access to
the masses
for roughly
$20 a month.
Okay.
That's $20 a
month if you're
an AT&T customer.
If you're an
AT&T customer,
yes.
But I think
that they're
automatically
assuming that
most people
are.
That's like
$10,000 a month
if you're not
an AT&T customer.
Or am I
exaggerating that
just a tad?
I don't know
if they actually
have it here.
It's $24.95
or $24
if you're
not an AT&T
customer.
It's a good
deal.
It really is.
Unlimited
time.
It's going to
change a lot
of things,
but I'm not
quite sure
what kind
of internet
access they're
actually offering.
Were you able
to glean
anything out
of that?
No, but
from...
Well, I've been
hearing mixed
things.
One thing I
heard is that
they plan on
offering an
interface kind
of thing, an
interface to the
net that it's
meant for people
to have sort of
point-and-click
web-type access to
the net.
And it's not going
to be the type of
thing drop you
into a Unix shell
and let you do
whatever you want.
Right.
But it'll be a lot
more restrictive,
something along the
lines of AOL.
I wish we could
find out more
about how the
whole system
works.
That'd probably
be pretty hard
since it probably
doesn't exist yet.
No, that's not
what I heard.
I heard that it
does exist,
except that it's
been in existence
for business
customers since I
think last October.
Really?
Yeah.
So, I don't
know, if anybody
could just tell us
what domain they
use so we can
at least check out
the site and tell
people what kind
of the system
they run and
if it's any good
whatsoever, but
mostly, you know,
I'd just like to
hear from...
Thank you for
calling AT&T
One at service.
This is Sylvie
Horton speaking.
Would you like me
to send you the
free software?
Well, this is
indeed something.
Yeah, you happen
to be from
WorldNet, huh?
I'm sorry?
You're from
WorldNet?
Yes.
Okay, great.
I was just
curious.
You just sort of
popped onto the
phone here.
I wasn't expecting
to hear this,
actually.
I'm very curious
about WorldNet.
When does it
actually begin?
March 14th.
March 14th.
Mm-hmm.
I see.
And is this full
Internet access?
Yes, it is.
Do you get like
a shell account?
No, you don't.
What it is is
access.
We use Netscape.
Netscape?
Yeah.
Okay.
And we offer an
email facility,
which is included
in that packet,
and we offer very
competitive prices.
I'm not sure if
you've heard about
the introductory offer.
I heard about
the 20 and the 24
if you're not a
customer.
Is that right?
And the five...
Did you hear about
the three hours?
Yeah, five free
hours a month
if you're an AT&T
customer.
That's right.
With no monthly
service charge.
Right.
Now, you say this
is an introductory
offer.
How long does that
last for?
For one year.
Do you know
what's going to
happen after that?
I have no idea,
but you are under
an obligation if you
want to cancel your
service at that time.
I see.
Okay, and what do
people need to do
to sign up?
Well, all we're doing
is we're sending out
some free software
packages, which has
all the information
you'll need and a
registration option
in that.
So if you go over
everything and you
decide you'd like to
give it a try, you
enter your information
and you can start
accessing it at that
time.
So you're under no
obligation whatsoever
right now.
Okay, and you have
to use that software
to get on?
That's right.
Okay, and the date
is again March what?
March 14th, but it
is going to take about
four weeks for us to
mail it out, so...
Okay.
Well, I'll probably
call back later and
get a package sent to
me.
Okay, did you not
want to put an order
in now?
It is free of charge,
as I said.
Well, I don't have
my address handy.
Oh, I see.
Okay.
All right.
Thanks.
Thanks anyway.
I don't, really.
I have to look at my
identification card.
See, I have so many
different identities that
I don't even know who
I am today, to be
honest.
If you call back and
you ask them...
For some reason,
your microphone stopped
working.
Okay, talk a second.
There you go.
If you call back and
you ask them for the
software for the Mac,
they'll tell you it's
not available yet and
that they anticipate it
sometime in 96, but
they're very
nonspecific about that.
Why is the Mac always
lagging me behind?
When they said, well, it
has Netscape, and I
said, yeah, well, I
have Netscape, and they
said, well, it has
mail program, and I
said, I have mail
program, so why can't I
use it?
Because yours doesn't
have the ATT virus in it
that you're going to
have for the rest of
your life.
It must be something
like that that I'm
missing.
So, Fiber, is this
going to be something
we can tell men into,
or are you going to
have to start off?
Highly unlikely.
So it's not like a
real internet service at
all, is it?
No.
Well, I want to know
if that accent was
real.
I think they might have
hired her just because
of that accent.
Because she sounds
worldly?
Yeah, very worldly,
WorldNet.
I don't know.
Yeah.
I don't know.
It sounded kind of
Australian, didn't it?
Do you think World.net is
where they're getting it?
Oh, well, who knows?
Maybe they have a whole
board like the United
Nations.
9X, you got something
on 9X, all right?
Yeah, actually.
I got some words to say
about 9X, but let's hear
what you have to say
first.
Then we'll take some
phone calls, 212-279-3400.
This is information about
a $9 rebate from 9X.
Apparently, the Public
Service Commission
levied a fine because
9X failed to meet
certain service goals
during the period of
March 94th through
February 95th.
Was one of them
installing ISDN lines
in a timely manner?
Well, funny you should
ask, but they do
mention some of the
things that they were
levied because of.
Service interruptions
for more than 24 hours.
Repair appointments
that were not kept.
I think you've
experienced that a few
times.
Yeah, I think so.
A high volume of
static or other line
noises and other
problems were the
reasons the telephone
company was slapped
with the fine.
This is apparently a
quote from someone at
the Public Service
Commission.
So we're getting
$9 back each, huh?
Yeah, $9, they're
saying in April.
I want to see how
that shows up on the
bill.
They always justify
things.
They say the MTA
transit surcharge.
Yeah, the We Screwed
Up credit.
The FCC line charge.
Yeah, and what's this
one going to be?
It's like, sorry, here's
your $9 back.
Okay, so we'll be
getting $9.
Is that like dependent
on how big your phone
bill is?
Or is everyone getting
the same amount?
No, it says that
everyone will be getting
$9.87, which I don't
know where they got
the $0.87 from.
Well, some of us got
worse service than
others, you know.
Some of us should get
a lot more than that,
I think.
Yeah, you missed more
repair appointments.
Yeah, I missed more.
I think I should get,
you see, my cable
company, when they
miss an appointment, I
get a free month of
cable.
I think that's kind of
cool.
Now, the phone company,
I should get a free
month of phone service
or something like that.
If they did that,
they'd be out of
business.
Or maybe I should get
a free visit.
You know, just the guy
drops by and visits
and says, how's your
phone?
Yeah.
You know, something
like that.
I should get something,
you know.
That's what we want,
9X.
You know, last week we
talked about the new
9X bills and how
they always say, well,
it's because of what
you told us, so it's
your fault.
You know, we listen to
you and here's our new
incredibly ridiculous
looking phone bill.
Well, listen to us now.
You know, we want free
visits.
We want, we want what's
coming to us, I guess.
9X.
Okay, now let me tell
you about 9X.
Walking around Canal
Street today, all right,
I was trying to page you
actually.
Really?
Do you know how
difficult it is to do
that?
First of all, I use a
950 number.
Okay.
Some people know what a
950 number is.
It's sort of like an
800 number, but there's
no surcharge attached to
it when you use a calling
card.
Usually the code isn't as
long.
Well, of course, most of
the cocots down there
didn't recognize what a
950 number was.
They either cut it off
immediately.
They asked for $10 in
coins, or they just muted
your touch tones after you
connected.
So I found a 9X phone, and
I was happy because, or
9X kiosk, actually.
I saw the back of one, and
I ran over to it.
And that's always the
phones where people are
lined up, because they're
really the only ones that
work.
But those days are rapidly
drawing to a close, because
first of all, they have
those damn yellow phones
everywhere, which you can
never do anything with.
So there's always two or
three people waiting for the
real phone, and the yellow
phone is just sitting there
staring at you, saying,
hey, if you had a card, you
could be using me and, you
know, paying more money for
it, but you wouldn't be
standing in the ring.
I think the yellow phones
are great.
Yeah, but you use them to
make calling card calls.
Right.
And you pay a surcharge
every time you do that.
That's fine by me.
I don't have to wait.
I want to use my 950 number.
My 950 number is not, you
know, carries no surcharge.
I don't have to pay, what,
60 cents per call?
That's a small price to pay.
Small price to pay.
If I call you, if I beep
you, it costs me about 13
cents.
That's it.
And that's about what it
costs the phone company.
No, it costs them,
obviously, a lot less than
that.
But, you know, I don't want
to have to pay a surcharge.
I mean, why a surcharge?
Surcharge is for something
extra.
That's the only thing your
card does.
There shouldn't be a
surcharge on it.
Well, I don't even use the
card.
I just have the number.
Well, we've had this
discussion before, so I don't
even want to get into that.
But the thing is, I
finally, after waiting for
the phone, after, you
know, staring down the
yellow phone for a while,
I finally got onto a real
9X phone.
And I dialed my 950 number
and I knew something was
wrong immediately when as
soon as I hit the last
digit of the 950 number,
I heard a recording saying
thank you for using 9X.
And if you listen to this,
the voice is different for
the 9X part than for the
thank you for using part.
It's like they fill in
certain names.
So after the thank you for
using 9X part was said,
things started going wacky
on the phone.
And I could tell, you
know, I was hitting, I was
hitting a button and I
wasn't getting the tone
right away.
It was like it was doing
something with the tone.
It was processing it,
approving the tone before
it actually sent it out.
And then, after I hit 12
digits, which is not
enough to call somebody
and put in a code, I got
a recording on the phone
saying, no more dialing
allowed.
The thing that Rebel has,
the thing that Rebel has
been warning us about now
for a year, it has come
true, yes.
All throughout Canal
Street, you get this.
And you know what's
funny about it?
It's programmed directly
into the keypad.
So as soon as you hit
any button, it says that.
And if you hit a button
really quickly, it'll just
repeat it really quickly.
And it's not coming from
the central office, it's
coming from the actual
telephone itself.
telephone itself.
It's a cocot phone.
It's basically, it feels
like a cocot phone.
And I experimented with
this a little bit, and I
realized the idiots, it
doesn't work even if you do
a zero-plus call.
Even if you try to bill it
to a 9X calling card, you
can't put in enough digits
before it cuts you off.
You can't bill a 9X calling
card from a 9X payphone down
on Canal Street anymore.
Who are we protecting by doing
something so stupid?
Well, all this is due to
the fact that red boxes
were just totally abused.
It's almost like you have
to use a red box to make
a phone call these days,
because I'm sure that
would have worked.
Well, people just abused
them so much that now you
have to put up with these
new computerized cocots.
Yeah, I thought it was
the war on drugs we were
fighting.
Because people use beepers,
and you cut out beepers,
that's going to solve all
the problems.
I don't know.
Let's take some phone calls,
because you've been waiting
for quite some time.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Oh, hi, Emmanuel.
How you doing?
Okay, I have this thought
to start off the discussion.
Why not sort of get
the Secret Service and 9X
like to go after each other
and hopefully cancel
each other out?
Well, now, how would you
do that?
That would be nice,
but I don't see how
you're going to do it.
Well, I mean, you keep
coming up with enough
dirt on 9X every week
to sort of, you know,
make one think that
there's some sort of
conspiracy to defraud
New Yorkers.
Well, you know, the thing is,
it's one major entity
controlling another
major entity, you know,
and they both kind of,
I don't know,
they exist for each other.
Have any of the powers
of 9X done anything
punitively to any of you
consciously, the way
the Secret Service
seems to be?
9X hasn't been that bad
recently as far as, you
know, victimizing people,
you know, aggressively
going after people and
trying to throw them in
jail.
I think Bell Atlantic
has been a lot worse.
Oh, there are like
special offices for
anti-hackers or...
Oh, I'm sure, I'm sure
there are offices like
that in 9X, I'm sure
there are, but they just
don't seem to be as,
as, you know, shooting
from the hip.
That's a new bill.
It's totally insane.
I signed, do you know
of these new calling
plan options they now
offer?
For 9X?
Yeah.
Yeah, in fact, in fact,
they can be very good.
I should, I wanted to
say that when we were
talking about getting,
getting, getting things
back, I am finally
getting something back
because I see my phone
bill, and I'm taking
full advantage of this
plan.
I see you paid $6.06
for this plan, and if
you didn't have this
plan, it would have
cost you $249 or
something crazy like
that, and that's
because I'm using the
plan to the maximum.
Right.
I'm making all kinds
of calls.
I'm meeting people in
New York City every day.
Is that option one
you have?
I'm calling Westchester,
I'm calling Nassau
County, I'm just going
crazy calling people
everywhere.
Is that option one you
have?
I think it's the one
that allows you to
call everything outside
your local zone for as
long as you want.
It's not a standardized
rate for everyone.
No.
They sort of look at
your phone bill for the
last year and come up
with some sort of
figure.
But I hadn't been
using that phone line at
all, so it was very
low, so I got a very
good price on that.
Two things about that.
I found I saved a hell
of a lot of money with
the New York City calls,
but I only made one
call to Westchester,
which came to 60 cents,
and that part of the
bill was like part of
the plan, $14, because
it goes together in New
York City and Westchester.
Well, you need to meet
some more people there
and just call them all.
But first, it's so funny,
when they first advertised
it and everyone got the
solicitation in the mail,
I called up and they
said, first they had no
record of my number
because I had changed my
number last May, and
they said you need to
have your new number in
existence for at least a
year so they can estimate
the figures.
Then someone a few months
later from NYNEX called
me trying, you know,
after I had called them
and they told me I
couldn't get it, someone
like some telemarketer
called me and said, oh,
would you like to sign up
at this point we can
offer it to you for like
$24 a month?
It's like, you know, one
office doesn't know what's
going on with the other
one.
That would not be the
first time that happened.
Well, you know, I feel
I'm like a softie.
I feel sorry for Bernie.
He asked, can he like be
put in some sort of
medical facility instead
of prison?
You know, I would have
had a lot more faith.
I would have had a lot
more faith in the whole
system if the judge had
at one point said, is
this guy getting medical
attention?
You know, he told me
today the nurses,
the quote unquote
nurses at that prison
say that he's faking it.
Now, I'd like to ask
the people that went to
the went to the court
today.
Did he look like he was
faking it?
No, not at all.
Wow.
So we were concerned
that he has he has TV
or something.
Right.
He is definitely ill.
I mean, he's he's very
pale.
I mean, he's his cough
is phlegmatic.
I mean, he kills over
from it.
I mean, he is obviously
very sick.
Yeah.
And they are not doing
anything to help him.
And this is, you know,
this this is something I
hope is unrelated to this
particular case.
I think this is endemic of
prisoners in general.
They just do not get
care.
How do you think he'll be
adding three months of
good behavior?
Well, I think as long as
he's not accused of
anything new in the next
couple of months, he
he should be OK.
But I don't know.
I'm just keeping my
fingers crossed on this.
I'm hoping he's out in
July.
But of course, they'll
be looking for him to
jaywalk and they'll be
all over him.
Lastly, just some
encouragement to you
guys.
I myself got into the
field of technology a
little too late.
I'm sort of talented and
gifted in other areas.
Never too late.
Well, you guys are sort
of my heroes and my
role models.
And, you know, I'm
waiting for the day that
Fiber does a max
headroom or something of
really, you know, high
achievement.
And the cat's out of
the bag now, Fiber.
Yeah, because, you
know, I'm the super
high information, super
highway.
Anyway, I'm
unfortunately living in
like a desert, you
know.
My area is sort of
poor and low tech.
But, you know, I wish
you guys well and I
hope you guys continue
doing it until you're
in your 90s and your
exploits are sung from
here to Rigel 7.
Okay.
Thanks for the
encouragement.
And hopefully you'll
write to us in prison.
David is here from
The Computer Show.
You have a special
announcement for us.
Well, if you think
these folks are
interesting, I know we've
got Fiber and Emanuel
already committed and
we may get a few more
of them.
They're warm and
generous and easily
accessible, but one
place in particular is
two weeks from tonight
we're going to be doing
a WBAI benefit at the
At Cafe.
It's a voluntary
donation.
If you can donate 10
bucks, we'll take it.
If you can't, you're
welcome anyway.
At the At Cafe, we're
going to get presentations
from Emanuel and Fiber.
They haven't told me what
they're going to be doing
yet.
There's going to be some
really advanced stuff.
We have to give a
presentation?
Yeah, we've got two
terminals with our name
and one of them is going
to have...
We'll come up with
something.
And the other terminal
will be running some
basic stuff too.
So whatever level you're
at, very friendly, at
Cafe in two weeks, let us
know that you're coming
because it's not 100%
certain, but it looks
pretty good.
So call here at the
station, 279-0707.
Leave your number and
name on extension 122, two
weeks from tonight, at
Cafe.
As many of these folks who
want to come and do
something are more than
welcome.
And I think you'll see
some other interesting
folks there too.
Okay, sounds great.
And we're looking forward
to that two weeks from
tonight.
Let's take a couple more
phone calls.
Good evening, you're on.
Yeah, hi.
I wonder if you could give
me some suggestions as to
how...
as to a web provider,
an inexpensive web
provider, where I could
also access my email in
New York City.
I have a...
I have a Mac.
I'm going to hang up
and listen, okay?
Okay.
Joker is doing
cartwheels.
He's got some
suggestion.
Let's hear what your
suggestion is this week.
Yeah, there's going to be
a new provider in New York
City in about two weeks,
but we have the capacity
to do it now.
So if you want to give a
call over to Web
Communications, the place
is actually going to be
called web.net.
And the number is
219-4006.
4006.
219-4006 in area code
212.
Okay, that's one.
There's a lot, but that's
the one that springs to mind
off the top of our heads.
Yeah, let us tell you
what we do.
Okay.
Let's take another phone
call.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Good evening.
Yes, how are you?
Good.
I'm fine, thank you.
Let me catch my breath.
I think what Bernie is dealing
with is people who really
don't want technically gifted
people to poke their nose
in technology.
And, you know, they want to
have all the metal detectors
and the computers, well,
the advanced computers and
the knowledge.
Plus, I think you have,
this is a part of the crime,
the crime inflation thing.
These people have a job
to protect and they're
going to find whatever
they can to keep
themselves in business.
You know, their schoolmates
who got into manufacturing
jobs are probably looking
for a new career now.
These guys are, you know,
these guys are set for life.
Mm-hmm.
Well, why does their career
have to take them into the
realm of locking people away?
Why can't it include making
the systems better, learning
from what these people are
telling them?
You're talking about a higher
level of consciousness than
these bozos have.
I guess so.
They grew up on television
and, you know, newspapers know
better than the daily news
and, you know, schools that
didn't really teach them too
much, except what they need
to know to lock people up.
But more importantly, I think
Bernie might be able to file
a writ, I believe it would be
a writ of mandamus, or, you
know, he could probably talk
to a lawyer, and I think he
would be able to sue for at
least get, you know, get some
basic medical care.
Now, the federal, the Bureau
of Prisons has a ready-made
defense.
I was, you know, I had some
experiences with those people,
and my information is over 20
years old.
They have a ready-made defense.
Well, we know that, you know,
the Bureau of Prisons doesn't,
is not able to provide medical
care, good medical care, so
that's the way it is.
But I think a good lawyer was
prepared for that, you know,
considering that he doesn't need
anything outlandish.
Right.
You know, he probably just needs
antibiotics or, you know, or a
good regimen of cough suppressant.
Well, a few weeks ago, it was
cough suppressant.
I think he needs a lot more
right now.
Well, it might have gone into a
secondary, you know, bacterial
infection, at which point he
needs, you know, the thing is
that the more you cough, the
more you need to cough, because
you irritate the bronchial
passages.
You know, but the thing can turn
into something chronic that may,
you know, that may give him
trouble for the rest of his life.
Absolutely.
So I think he, you know, he
should really, well, he may have
to talk to the same judge, I
guess, but, you know, he can file
a writ and try to get some
action there.
I appreciate what you're saying
and that they are good ideas.
It's just when you see the way the
system works, you kind of sort of
lose all hope that anything can
change.
But yeah, you're right.
We shouldn't lose hope and we
should keep trying.
Absolutely.
Well, that's one of the reasons the
system is so oppressive, is that
it's there to erode your spirit,
to degrade you, to make you want
to give up and not be a part of
things.
Listen, thanks for your call.
Thank you.
Keep up the good work.
Thank you.
I'm sorry we don't have time for
more calls.
I realize we kind of short
changed the callers this week,
but it was a pretty important
event that we went through today.
And it's going to have
ramifications, obviously.
The whole thing is, this isn't a
surprise to us.
It's going to have ramifications.
We knew that last year when this
all started.
We just don't know where it's
going to go next, who will be the
next victim.
But that's one thing I think we're
pretty certain about, is that there
will be more.
You can help, I guess, by talking
about this, bringing it up, bringing
as many people into the fold as
possible so that they understand
what the issues are and so that all
of this was not done in vain.
In the weeks ahead, we'll be updating
people, assuming that we're still
here, we'll be updating people on how
things are progressing with his
particular case, any other cases
that may come up, and we'll also be
seeing just what it is that drives
these people that want to lock us all
away for possessing knowledge, for
having books that are controversial,
for doing all kinds of things that we
had gone into some assumptions were
protected by various key documents and
declarations and things like that.
We'll just have to stay tuned and see
where things go in the weeks ahead.
In the meantime, your support, of
course, is appreciated.
You can email us at OffTheHook,
O-T-H at 2600.com, or you can write
to us here at WBAI, 505 8th Avenue,
New York, New York, 10018, and just
write Care of OffTheHook on there, and
we'll try to respond to people when
possible.
This is Emmanuel Goldstein for
Fiber Optic, Master Chemist, and
Izzy, and for Bernie S., who is not
here, unfortunately, hopefully he'll be
here again next week.
We'll see you then.
Good night.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I
ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving, now I
can't make a cough.
It could be yet much worse, but if
they could, they would.
But I best expect the worst.
I hope that's understood.
But I know.
I know.
Thank you.
Thank you.
The time is 9 o'clock.
Coming up now is Housing Notebook.
Thank you.