Between day and night, between day and night, between reality and imagination, between reality
and Thursday mornings, 3.30 a.m. till 6 a.m.
From dusk till dawn.
From dusk till dawn.
Night shift.
Thursday mornings, 3.30 till 6 a.m.
And a whole lot more.
And that's here on WBAI New York, where it's time now for Off the Hook.
BINGLEGON
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
It couldn't get much worse, but if it could, it would.
BINGLEGON
But I best expect the worst
I hope that time is good
But make me go!
And a very good evening to everybody
It's time for another action-packed edition of Off the Hook
The program that talks all about technology
Computer hackers
Viruses
The telephone system
Big Brother
And whatever other adventures happen to come along
During the time we have together
We'll be taking phone calls in a little while
We'll probably be hearing from Bernie S. getting an update on his case
As well as other things that have been happening
In our little world over the past week
The newest issue of 2600 Magazine is out finally
After a one-month tour of the nation's loading zones
It has finally made it to the newsstands
And you can actually find it
And all kinds of fun topics are out there as well
Including ways of gaining revenge against people
Ways of taking advantage of Macs
How to avoid suspicion
Guide to Motorola cellular phones
All kinds of fun things like that
And I don't know what happened
But for some reason
Magazines are imitating our style now
You know
We put this thing out
And there's this other weekly magazine now
That has this look to it
I don't understand what's going on with that
But that's something we'll have to take up with our
Our corporate lawyer people
Having all these weird things going on
We've got a few updates on some stories
And some other kind of fun things going on
Including
Including
The Belcor Tiger team
That's right
I don't know if you've heard about this one
This is
This is for people who are
On the net
And feel that maybe
Maybe things are a bit insecure for them
Well
There's a little brochure floating around
Protect your network
Get attacked
Yeah
That's how you protect your network
By getting attacked
With incidents of security breaches on the internet
Becoming more and more common
It's time to protect
Your information and service assets
That's why
Y'all want to get attacked
It's amazing
A hacker could have written this
But no
This comes from Belcor
Belcor's Internet Firewall Tiger team attack
Let Belcor's Internet Firewall Tiger team come in
And try to penetrate your internet firewall
That's right
They'll look for weaknesses
In the technology being used
As well as the way that technology is administered and configured
If they are successful
And they usually are
They'll then try to gain access to as many systems as they find
Attached to the network
They will show you how vulnerable your confidential information is
The team will also evaluate your corporate response to the intrusion
And they'll track how well your personnel respond to the attacks
Noting the response times and any actions taken
And they'll also engage in a little bit of social engineering
They got the whole thing down
That is
They'll try to get vital information
Such as passwords
By just talking to your people
Would one of your people
Divulge a key code
If a caller presented
What seemed to be a credible story
With fake credentials
Find out
By bringing in the Internet Firewall Tiger team
Unbelievable
Now this is why hackers get blamed for things
Because these Tiger teams are going out there
Breaking into systems
And then claiming that they're able to get into all these systems
Because, you know, they intimidate people
Into giving out data or whatever
And all of a sudden
Hackers are the ones that are attacking the system
Even though they're not the ones that are doing it
These people have extensive experience
We've successfully performed these intrusion exercises
Many times for some of the most demanding clients
The Baby Bells
Yes, hackers have had experience with them too
Proven expertise
We have global experience
In identifying potential vulnerabilities
Evaluating their business impacts
And recommending corrective actions
Our intrusion exercise can save you thousands
Perhaps millions of dollars
If you can even put a price tag
On your most valuable data
If it is lost, stolen, or tampered with
We participate and serve
In a leadership capacity
On several national and international standards
Bodies focusing on open systems and security
And this is what a lot of people are doing, I guess
What a lot of corporations are doing
Now you can reach them
By calling 1-800-521-CORE
C-O-R-E
And asking them how they can
They can make your network tiger-proof
I don't know
That's something
Let's see what kind of computer systems
They're using over there, actually
So we'll check that out a little bit
But they say hurry
The guaranteed IQ 1996 rates
Are only in effect until June 1st
Well, I guess we've already missed it
So that's a story with Belcorp
I don't know, should we call them?
Let's give them a call
Got a dial tone?
Okay
See what happens when we
Ask to have our computer system penetrated
Uh-oh
Something happened to our phone system
Let's see if we can
Okay
Calling up the
Belcorp
Tiger team
Let's see if anybody will
Break into our systems for us
Welcome to Belcorp
If you're calling on a weekday
Between the hours of 8 a.m. and 6.30 p.m.
Eastern Standard Time
Please leave a message at the tone
And a sales representative
Will return your call shortly
If it is after 6.30 p.m.
Please leave a message
And a sales rep will return your call
After 8 a.m.
On the next work day
Oh, these numbers
Thank you
I'm going to hit a zero
And see what happens
I'm sorry
An operator is not available to help you
Okay, let's try
To disconnect
Press 1
If you wish to leave a message
For someone else
Press 2
If you still want to leave a message
For this person
Press 3
I'm going to hit a star
Or simply stay on the line
Please dial the number
Of the person you are calling
If you have a mailbox
On this system
Please press pound
Okay
Mailbox number, please
Uh-oh
We've got a bad line quality here
Let's go
1, 2, 3, 4
Pound sign
2, 3, 4
Is not a recognized mailbox
Okay
Please try again
Oh, let's try again
Please re-enter your mailbox number
How about, uh
Bellcore
B-E-L-L
Please enter your password
Ooh, Bell
Okay
I guess they use the password of Bell
No
I'm sorry
That is not the correct password
Please re-enter your password now
Any guesses
Core
Okay, let's try Core
How much are we going to charge them for this
I'm sorry
That is not the correct password
Oh, boy
Please re-enter your password now
Um, okay
How about this
How about, uh
AT&T
It's only three
It hung up
That's kind of rude
Didn't even say goodbye
Oh, well
Okay, well, that's, uh
They can
They can
They can
Play with our computer systems
We'll play with their voicemail systems
And see who gets there first
Okay, we have, um
A couple other news items
Hopefully we'll be hearing from Bernie S real soon
And we can update you on
On his particular, uh
Status with getting out of prison
And if, uh
If things are progressing in any way
Um
How about this
A Xerox machine causes
Nuclear power plant
Emergency halt
One of the Swedish nuclear reactors
Known as Ringhaus 4
Was automatically shut down
During a routine safety check
The last part of the instructions
Fed into the computer
Was missing
And when the computer safety system
Noticed that the instructions
Were incomplete
It shut down the reactor
So far, so good
But why were the instructions incomplete?
The Xerox machine
Used to copy the instruction sheet
Did not include the
The complete page
And no one except the computer
Ever noticed that the instructions
Were incorrect
The risk is obvious
That no system is completely foolproof
However
It's doubtful anyone ever thought
About the correctness
Of these Xerox machines
As part of the nuclear power plant
Safety system
No matter how detailed
You plan the security system
There will always be some part
That could fail
In this case
Nothing serious happened
Because the computer
Detected the error
However, this
Or similar incidents
Could happen again
And next time
Maybe
The error
Will not be detected
That comes from the
Risks Digest
This week
Now a Xerox machine
Shut down a nuclear power plant
Now
People are interested
In all kinds of technology
These days
All kinds of
Of new gizmos
To play around with
There's this company
On the net
Called Spyzone
And you can visit them
At
Http
www.spyzone.com
And here's a little blur
From their
From their
Page there
Our products can capture
Spies
Stop competitors
Provide
Competitive edges
And secure you
From all sorts of harm
We've given you
Many good reasons
To call us
Or stop by
But we haven't yet revealed
Who's doing what
To whom
And how they do it
You want additional
Information about
This fascinating category
You want to speak
With real live spies
You can look forward
To the Spyzone
Features by month's end
Meanwhile
Take a look at
Best sources
Check out the
Most comprehensive
Links to other
Security sites
In our resources section
Or for more
Complete information
You can call them
They give their
Phone number there
For every monitoring
System there is
A countermeasure
To defeat it
Every threat
To personal protection
Can be met with
An equally effective
Solution
Body armor
Bulletproof vehicles
And kidnap
Protection
Defend against
Extreme threats
To personal safety
Secure radio
Telephone and fax
As well as voice
And data encryption
Carry communication
Safely from point to point
Recording nullifiers
Render tape recorders
Useless
Access controls
And sophisticated
Airport security
Guard against
Unwanted and dangerous
Intrusions
Body armor
Here we go
Armored jacket
A weatherproof
Sporting jacket
Designed to protect
You during outdoor
Surveillance operations
Protection between
Full front side
And rear coverage
Available as vest
And as full length
Coats
All sizes and styles
For complete product line
And pricing
Contact us
Bulletproof vehicles
That's right
CCS has been
Armoring cars
For over 40 years
And in that time
We have accumulated
Many demo models
Which are completely
Fitted with fully
Functional armor
Most vehicles
Are in excellent condition
With about 1,200 to 10,000
Miles on them
These vehicles are
Reduced in price
And ready for
Immediate delivery
Kidnap protection
This is the interesting one
We want $400,000
In cash
Or your chief executive
Dies
That's the sales pitch
Can you believe it?
If you can look over that
Be prepared for the real
Possibility of kidnap
The AJ1800PKR transmitter
Is specifically designed
To alert security personnel
Of kidnap
And to track the victim
Thus facilitating rescue
And substantial saving
Of money
Track contraband
Find stolen vehicles
Protect VIPs
Rescue kidnap victims
Sounds like something
We should all get involved in
Yes
We could rent this stuff out
Personal safety
Theft proof briefcases
How do you think this works?
A thief grabs your briefcase
Full of valuables
Cash and important papers
You press a remote button
Which you carry on your keychain
And instantly
Instantly
35,000 volts of electric power
Sizzle through the stolen
Briefcase handle
That's right
The thief drops the case
And either runs
Or dies in the spot
And you get your briefcase back
Of course
I don't know how you're supposed to
I don't know
I guess you have to do it
Within a certain amount of time
And what happens
If someone else
Buys the same thing
And happens to be
Walking by you
Carrying their briefcase
When you hit that button
I hope they have
Different codes
For different briefcases
Imagine
Imagine what you can do with that
You know
35,000 volts
The security blanket
AL-22
Completely immobilize
Any attacker
With a blinding burst of light
This safe and proven
Yes
It's completely safe and proven
To blind somebody
It's a flashlight type device
It's a must
For any home or office
I don't know
What kind of world
These people are living in
But yes
Blinding people
That's a must
For any office
Or home
For a complete product line
And prices
You can contact them online
www.spyline.com
And they have a phone number too
You know they have
Two different phone numbers
One for the east coast
One for the west coast
So I'm going to
I'm going to give our
East coast listeners
The number this week
Maybe the west coast
Next week
1-800-722-4490
If you get the
35,000 volt briefcase
Do bring it by the radio station
We like to play with it
A little bit
The FTC
Federal Trade Commission
On Wednesday
Last Wednesday
Said it halted
An illegal pyramid scheme
Actually I don't think
There are any legal pyramid schemes
But whatever it is
They halted it
It was on the internet
It built thousands of investors
For more than
Six million dollars
You know I don't know
How anybody can be
Can be foolish enough
To fall for these things
It's so obviously a scam
You know
It's like these
These chain letters
You know
Just send this out
And you'll somehow
Get money back
If you give us
Lots of money
It doesn't make any sense
The FTC said
The case was
It's largest to date
Involving fraud
On the worldwide
Computer network
The agency obtained
A federal court order
Temporarily halting
The scheme
Carried out by a company
Called Fortuna Alliance
Of Bellingham, Washington
The temporary restraining order
Freezes the company's assets
And appoints a receiver
To manage the company
The FTC also asked
The court to issue
A permanent injunction
That would provide remedies
For consumers
Hurt by the alleged scam
I think we might have
Bernie S. on the line
Is Bernie S. on the line
Well somebody hung up
So I guess
I guess they didn't like
The sound of my voice
We'll try that again
In a few minutes
Behind all the techno jargon
And the mathematical mumbo jumbo
This is just an elaborate
Electronic version
Of a chain letter
Said Jody Bernstein
Director of the
FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection
People are told
That if they sign up
And send money
They'll eventually end up
At the top of the pyramid
Collecting from those
At the bottom
But most people
Never make it
To the top
AT&T has a
Collect calls from
Bernie S.
At the
Bucks County
Correctional Facility
To refuse this call
Hang up
If you accept this call
Do not use
Three-way
Or call waiting features
Or you will be disconnected
To accept this call
Dial one now
Thank you
Bernie S.
Good evening
Welcome to the program
Thank you
Welcome to
Bucks County Prison
Yes, yes
It's nice we have
This little exchange
Program going on
That brings the culture
Of your little habitat
There to ours
And vice versa
We're just
Concluding a story
About pyramid schemes
On the internet
And how
They're being shut down
And you know
Wondering how people
Could ever fall for
Something like that
In the first place
I guess he said
Something like that
Yes
He did do that
That's pretty much it
As far as that story goes
Tell us what's
What's new with you
Any progress
On getting you released
No real progress
I've finally established
A point of contact
In this system
As it were
To try to
Establish rapport
As far as
Figuring out
When I'm going to release
According to
My lawyer's analysis
And my analysis
Of the judge's
Sentencing order
Which was
Handed down
On March 5th
This year
Which you were present for
I should receive credit
For a certain amount
Of time served
Last year
On a sentence
Which was
On a charges
Which were later dropped
And according to
His analysis
My analysis
By midnight tonight
I am eligible
For parole
However
No one from the
State parole board
Has corresponded with me
Or spoken with me
And as a result
Of certain officials
In Northampton County
East of Pennsylvania
Choosing to ignore
The judge's sentencing decree
I am born to be
Incarcerated
Longer than
Is in my mind
Necessary
Although I think
This whole thing
Was unnecessary
Well yeah obviously
Alright so it's
Gotten to the point
Where they're holding you
Longer than they
Should be holding you
Even by their own
Definitions
What is it that
We can do at this point?
Well by the
System's definition
When you're given
A sentencing range
In my case
For this misdemeanor charge
Of allegedly removing
Batteries from a
Touchtone dialer
A couple of years ago
The sentence was
6 to 24 months
And after 6 months
One is eligible
For parole
Technically it's a
2 year sentence
But since it was
Set up as a
6 to 24 month sentence
I am eligible
For parole
After
Eligible for parole
After 6 months
And by my lawyers
And by my interpretation
Of the sentencing decree
Hinted in March 5th
I'm eligible for parole
Midnight tonight
Short of giving you
Names and phone numbers
Of people to complain to
Which could aggravate
The situation by
Pissing these officials off
And they would
Certainly not want to
Do anything on my behalf
I don't think there's
A whole lot to get me done
I'm going to wait
Until the end of the week
To see if there's
Any response
To another letter
We sent to another official
And if nothing
Was received at that point
I don't know
If there's anything
We have to lose
By making some noise
About this
But I've been
Pretty agitated
All day
Knowing that
I should be out
Midnight tonight
By my lawyers
Analysis of the
Sentencing decree
And my own
And I'm not going
To be released
That is a pretty
Shameful turn of events
And nothing at all
Out of the ordinary
As far as this whole case
Which has been going on
Now for
What is it
A year and a half
Well it started
Well you could say
It started
In August of 93
With the
Touchtone
Dialer incident
But the
Secret Service
Got involved
In March of last year
And so I've been
In prison for
Roughly a year now
As a result of
A new federal statute
That was only
Inacted a few weeks
Before I was charged
With it
But the mere
Possession of
Certain hardware
And software
That anybody can get
At any radio shack
Store
At the internet
What people who may not
Be familiar with
The background of my case
Is that I'm not
Charged with doing
Anything illegal
As far as
Perpetuating any
Telecommunications fraud
Or committing any
Acts
Other than
Just simply possessing
Extremely common
Hardware and software
That anybody can buy
Any radio shack
Store
Or software
Which can be
Downloaded off the internet
The crime is
For possession of
Something that could
Be used illegally
Not for actually
Using it illegally
And I'm challenging
That in federal
Courts later this year
That the statute
The statute
Is unconstitutionally vague
But I'm sitting in prison
Until then apparently
And it's certainly
Within their interest
To keep you there
So that you can't
Challenge this
Particular law
It's pretty hard
To marshal
A federal
Circuit court
Appeal case
While you're behind bars
You just don't have
Access to
The normal resources
That one would
Need to do that
There's no federal
Case law here
Even in the law library
To prison
Which is required
By a federal law
But I don't have
Access to materials
That I need to prepare
My case
And my attorney's
Working on it
But the technical
Aspects of it
Are something
I'm more up on
Than he is
He's more up on
The legal aspects
Of it
And unfortunately
I don't have
Access to materials
That I need to
To work on this appeal
So I think
The Secret Service
Is a hidden agenda
Or one of their
Hidden agendas
In this case
Was to keep me
In prison as long
As possible
To afford my
Being able to
Succeed with my appeal
Because if I win
This appeal
Everyone who's
Convicted this new
Statute since I was
Charged with it
I happen to be
The first person
In the country
Charged with it
But other people
Who have been
Convicted of it
Since then
Their case
Their convictions
Will have to be
Lifted as well
And the Secret Service
Doesn't want this
New vague law
To be off the books
Because it's
Very valuable
Powerful tool
For them to
Persecute hackers
In my mind
Absolutely
And we have no doubt
This will be used
Again to prosecute
More hackers
Under the most
Nebulous of terms
Here's something
That comes from
A book
That we might
Be able to use
To get some
Secret Service
Agents fired
By their own
By their own rules
A month after
Bill Clinton
Was elected
The Secret Service
Sent a teletype
To all of its
2051 agents
Warning them
Not to talk
To the press
Without first
Clearing it
With headquarters
After Clinton
Had been sworn in
On January 15th
1993
Another teletype
Went out
The Secret Service
Had a one voice
Policy
The message said
In other words
Only those
Secret Service
Officials
Anointed to
Talk to the
Press
Could do so
In April
After Newsweek
Quoted Secret
Service agents
As saying
Hillary Rodden
Clinton
Had thrown
A lamp
At her husband
The Secret
Service
Sent out
A third
Teletype
Repeating
The previous
Warnings
The message
Was clear
Anyone caught
Talking to
The press
Would be
Fired
Well now
I believe
Tom Barney
Has talked to
The press
Has he not
Well I'll be
Making a call
To the
Headquarters
To report
This incident
To see if
Maybe we can
We can
Have it stopped
Perhaps have him
You know
Brought up on
Some sort of
Charge for doing
This
I'm not going
To hold my
Breath
Did any
Actual be
Taken against
Him
But certainly
Is another
Example of
Government
Not following
Its own rules
When they
Have another
Agenda
That's true
There's another
Case which
Is beginning
To come back
Into the
Spotlight
And that's
The Kevin
Mitnick case
The charges
Still have not
Been filed
With this
Particular case
It's going
To start
Happening this
Summer
One way or
Another
And I know
One of the
Deals that
Has been
Passed around
Involves
Something on
The order
This is what
They're offering
They're offering
Something on
The order of
Ten years
In prison
Ten years
In prison
And a fine
Of about
80 million
Dollars
This is
The deal
I mean
Usually the
Deal is
Supposed to
Be something
A lot
Better than
The worst
Possible
Case
So what
They're saying
By offering
A deal
Like this
Is that
If Kevin
Were to go
To trial
He could
Wind up
In prison
For life
Maybe
Or be fined
Billions of
Dollars
Who knows
It's gotten
To the stage
Where the
Things that
They're saying
Just don't
Make any
Sense
There is
No way
That any
One person
Especially
Kevin
Mittney
Could have
Caused
So much
Damage
Basically
If you
Follow the
Story
This was
Somebody who
Was a
Fugitive for
A few
Months
Lived under
Fake names
Made some
Free phone
Calls
Logged on
To some
Computer
Systems
I guess
Used other
People's
Accounts
So I
Don't know
What is
Exactly
They're
Accusing
Him of
That hasn't
Even come
Out yet
How does
That amount
To 80
Million
Dollars
How does
That amount
To 10
Years in
Prison
You know
You look
At this
Person
You look
At where
He is
Now
He's been
In prison
For almost
A year
And a
Half
I mean
Where do
You stop
Where do
You stop
With the
Punishment
And you
Know when
Do you start
Defining the
Actual
Crime
I think
The figure
Service is
Clearly
Trying to
Make examples
Out of
Some people
And scare
Open-minded
People into
Avoiding
Hacking
As a
Hobby
In my
Mind
Kevin
Mittnick
While
We all
May have
Our own
Opinions
About him
And he's
Not a
Friend of
Mine
In any
Case
I don't
Think he's
Caused
Physical
Destruction
Of
People's
Property
Or injured
Anyone
Personally
He may
May have
He may have
Been poking
Around
Systems
He shouldn't
Have
And
Unaccessed
Computer
Systems
That he
Shouldn't
Have
Been
In
But
To blame
The messenger
For security
Loopholes
That shouldn't
Have been
There in
The first
Place
I think
Is a
Poor logic
And to
Impressrate
Someone
For potentially
The rest
Of his life
For finding
Holes
In systems
And pointing
Them out
Rather than
Using them
For financial
Gain
I think
Is wrong
What they
Have already
Done to
Him
Has
Been
Irreparable
Damage
To his
Life
It's brought
Irreparable
Damage
Because
You know
You put
Somebody in
Prison for
This amount
Of time
And the
Same holds
True for
You obviously
It has
A lasting
Effect
It's not
Something you
Can just
Brush off
And start
Your life
Over again
You've lost
This time
You've had
This miserable
Experience
And you
Know
To some
People who
Who don't
Hold up
As well
You actually
Start to
Believe that
You're guilty
Of something
That you
Deserve to
Be treated
Like this
It's
It's really
Kind of sick
The way this
Is all
Panning out
Right now
It's very
Sick
I wonder
Myself
About when
I'm finally
Released
How this
Is going to
Effect the rest
Of my life
I certainly
Hope I can
Put it behind
Me
But it's
Not the
Kind of
Thing
That you
Simply can
Just write
Off
I feel
Very
Violated
By this
Whole
Experience
And not
To
Say that
It's
Equivalent
To being
Rape
In any
Way
But it's
Not unlike
That in
Certain respects
Feeling
Having your
Liberty
Taken away
From you
And being
Held with
Violent
And really
Nasty
People
For a
Long
Period
And subjected
To
Day
After
Day
Of
Just
Completely
Illogical
Reasoning
For keeping
In prison
It takes
Its toll
And
I hope
I can put it
Behind me
But it's
Something I
Don't think
I'm certain
I'm never
Going to
Forget
And I
Think we'll
Have
Long range
Repercussions
The whole
Idea of
The criminal
Correction
System
Being named
As it is
Is a
Farce
There's no
Corrections
Going on
In this
Or any
Other
Institutions
And if
Anything
It just
Makes people
Angrier
And bitter
And I'm
Not surprised
That the
Majority
Of people
Who get
Out of
Prison
Are
The
The
System
Makes
Them
Worse
For the
We're
After
To get
Out
So it's
A big
Complex
Problem
I don't
Have the
Answers
To it
But I
Know
What's
Put into
Effect
Now
Certainly
Isn't
Working
Absolutely
Not
And by
Criminalizing
Things
Which
Are
Not
By
Any
Real
Stretch
Of
The
Imagination
Crimes
That
That deserve
The kind
Of
It
Simply
Creates
A lot
Of
Very
Cynical
People
A lot
Of
Prisoners
And also
A lot
Of
Cynical
People
That are
Not
In the
Prison
System
Right
Now
I don't
Really
Know
Where
This
Is
Kind
Of
Wind
Up
Going
If
It
Keeps
Going
At
This
Rate
But
It's
Not
A
Very
Healthy
Place
And
It's
Going
To
Wind
Up
We're
Going
To
Take
Some
Phone
Calls
212
279
3400
If
People
Want
To
Get
In
Early
Now
Is
The
Time
And
You know
Bernie
We were
Talking
About
The
Belcor
Tiger
Team
How
They
Were
They
Offered
To
Break
Into
Your
Computer
System
And
Show
You
How
Easy
It
Is
We're
Sort
Of
Paralleling
That
To
Last
Week
When
We
Were
Talking
About
The
Defense
Department
And
How
It's
Like
The
Numbers
Can
Be
Distorted
So
Easily
People
Can
Believe
Things
That
Just
Are
Not
True
Based
On
What
Experts
Say
Experts
Say
Well
Since
We
Were
Able
To
Get
In
This
Means
That
10,000
Hackers
Could
Easily
Get
In
As
Well
And
Then
All
Of
A
Sudden
You
Have
10,000
Hackers
Coming
Up
Out
Of
Nowhere
That
Are
Breaking
Into
Your
Computer
System
You
Know
Who
Is
Defining
The
Facts
And
The
Terms
And
All
That
Kind
Of
Thing
I
That
Non-Technical
People
Will
Just
Have
To
Believe
Because
They're
Not
Informed
That
That's
One
Of
The
Reasons
I
Think
People
Should
Find
Out
As
Much
As
Possible
About
Computer
Technology
And
Telecommunication
Technology
And
Hacking
So
They
Can
Interpret
These
So
Called
Experts
Opinions
More
Rationally
That's
True
We
Have
All
Kinds
Of
Regulations
That
We're
Working
With
Battling
Now
In
This
Country
For
instance
The
Communications
Decency
Act
There's
A
Story
In
Today's
Paper
Today's
New York
Times
If
The
Communications
Decency
Act
Is
Upheld
Online
News
Publishers
Who
Cannot
Afford
Currently
Available
Mechanisms
For
Blocking
Indecent
Material
From
Children
Will
Be
Forced
Into
Self
Censorship
What
We
Are
Left
With
Is
A
Situation
When
No
Ordinary
User
Of
The
Internet
Has
A
Way
Of
Navigating
Into
the
Safe
Harbor
Defenses
No Way
For
Shea
To
Make
Sure
Indecent
Material
Was
Unavailable
To
Minors
He
Would
Have
No
Choice
But
To
Engage
In
Self
Censorship
The
Setting
Was
Federal
Court
Downtown
Manhattan
Where
A
Three
Judge
Panel
Heard
Closing
Arguments
In
One
Of
Two
Cases
Challenging
The
Four
Month
Old
Law
Which
Makes
It
A
Crime
To
Publish
Indecent
Materials
In
Areas
Of
Cyberspace
Where
Those
Younger
Than
The
Web
And
Looking
At
Indecent
Things
I
Think
The
Whole
Country
Is
Losing
Its
Mind
To
Be
Honest
But
That's
Just
My
Personal
Feeling
Another
Country
Though
Where
Things
Maybe
Are
Heading
Vietnam
Has
Issued
Regulations
Giving
The
Government
Broad
Powers
To
Control
Access
To
The
Internet
And
Shut
Down
Any
Services
Deemed
Harmful
To
National
Interests
The
Rules
Come
Even
Before
Vietnam
Establishes
Full
Fledged
Commercial
Internet
Links
And
Illustrate
The
Government's
Determination
To
Prevent
New
Technology
From
Undermining
Its
Tight
Control
Over
The
Media
And
Culture
Some
Of
The
Conditions
Service
Providers
Must
Agree
To
Government
Inspections
And
Absolutely
Obey
The
Government's
Decisions
On
Mobilizing
Parts
Of
Or
The
Entire
Network
For
Its
Own
Use
The
Directorate
Also
Has
Authority
To
Partially
Or
Completely
Shut
Down
Service
Networks
Service
Providers
Must
Take
Measures
To
Prevent
Sources
Of
Bad
Information
From
Entering
Vietnam
The
Rules
Say
That
Means
If
Somebody
Asks
What
A
Red
Box
Is
An
IRC
And
They
Give
The
Wrong
Answer
That's
A
Crime
Of
Some
Sort
The
Rules
Banning
Searching
Printing
And
Transmitting
Data
That
Can
Affect
National
Security
Social
Order
And
Safety
Or
Information
That
Is
Not
Appropriate
To
The
Culture
Morality
And
Traditional
Customs
Of
The
Vietnamese
People
And
Of
Course
The
Sweeping
Ban
Is
Left
Open
To
Interpretation
By
The
Directorate
Quite
A
Bit
Different
Than
What
We
Have
Here
But
There
Are
Quite
A
Few
Similarities
As
Well
Bernie
Still
There
I'm
Still
Here
I was
Just
Listening
And
Thinking
About
How
Governments
Always
Seem
To
Get
Very
Excited
About
People
Having
Access
To
To
Modes
Of
Getting
Information
Across
To
Large
Numbers
Radio
Television
Or
Now
The
Internet
Government
Always
Wants
To
Have
Their
Hand
On
To
Prevent
Unpopular
Ideas
From
Getting
Out
And
The
Internet
Is
Going
To
Pose
A
Whole
Host
Of
Problems
For
Them
And
I
Think
They're
Grappling
Trying
To
Figure
Out
How
To
How
To
Deal
With
This
And
They're
Finding
Out
There's
Really
Not
A
A
Lot
They
Can
Do
About
It
Practically
Well
That's
Certainly
Let The
Rest
Of
Us
Get
On
With
Our
Lives
212-279-3400
Let's
Take
Our
First
Phone
Call
Good
Evening
You're
On
The
Air
Manuel
Yes
Go
Ahead
I
Have
A
Few
Questions
First
What's
The
Number
For
The
Bell
Core
I
Think
I'm
Going
To
Play
Around
With
That
Okay
Well
Now
I
Don't
Want
To
Get
Anybody
In
Trouble
Here
But
This
I
I
Didn't
Hear
From
You
Yeah
Well
You
Heard
It
From
Me
On
A
50
2001
Radio
Station
What do
You
Didn't
Hear
From
Me
1
800
521
Core
But
Only
Call
Them
If
You
Want
Them
To
Break
Into
Your
Computer
System
Okay
First
They
Have
To
Find
You
I
Have
A
Question
Yes
Go
Ahead
About
The
Also
About
Kevin
Mitnick
Yes
This
Is
A
Statement
He
Made
In
The
Book
Which
One
Was
It
The
Fugitive
Game
By
John
Litman
Yes
He
Said
That
If
He
Went
Out
And
Stole
A
Bic
Pen
You
Know
A
Normal
Pen
They
Would
Charge
Him
With
A
Seven
Dollar
A
Seven
Million
Dollar
Production
And
Product
Development
Campaign
And
Three
Million
Dollars
Worth
Of
Advertising
And
That's
Really
What
They're
Doing
You're
Leaving
Out
The
Education
Of
The
People
That
Developed
It
In
The
First
Place
And
The
Buildings
That
They
Had
To
Build
And
The
People
That
Built
Them
And
All
Kinds
Of
Other
Things
But
Yeah
That's
How
That's
How
They
Come
Up
With
These
Ridiculous
Figures
And
The
Thing
Is
We
Don't
Have
The
Information
Necessary
To
Challenge
It
So
All
Of
These
Figures
Are
Just
Believed
But
Also
Don't
Have
To
Provide
An
Item
Itemized
Statement
Of
These
Things
If
Challenged
They
Do
The
Thing
Is
They're
Not
Being
Challenged
Emphatically
Enough
I
Mean
Yeah
We
Normal
Everyday
People
Are
Challenging
Them
But
That's
Not
Enough
To
Give
Us
Full
Disclosure
Of
What
It
Is
They're
Actually
Doing
Yes
Because
I
Know
In
The
Night
Lightning
Case
They
At
Least
Told
Them
What
They
Were
Trying
To
Pin
Like
$42
Thousand
Or
A
Breakdown
Of
Exactly
How
Much
How
They
Arrived
At
That
$79,000
Figure
And
You
Saw
That
They
Included
Entire
Computer
Systems
And
The
Salary
Of
The
Secretary
And
Things
Like
That
And
They
Came
Out
To
12
Hours
They
Had
That
Little
Catalog
Of
Documents
For
One
Document
Right
And
That's
You
Can
Imagine
What
They're
Going
To
Try
And
Pin
On
Kevin
They
Have
Not
Learned
Their
Lesson
As
Far
As
That
Goes
I'm
Sure
It's
Just
That's
The
Way
They
Do
Things
That's
How
They
Buy
Things
That's
How
They
Charge
People
With
Things
By
Gross
Exaggeration
And
One
More
Thing
How
Does
The
Government
Get
Off
Regulating
People
About
The
Internet
When
They
Don't
Actually
Own
It
It
It's
Basically
Like
The
Government
Going
Out
And
Saying
Let's
Say
We
Claim
The
Right
To
Govern
Something
Like
Great
Britain
The
Truth
Is
They
Don't
Own
It
They
Can
Regulate
Their
Own
Servers
They
Don't
Own
The
Electromagnetic
Spectrum
Either
But
They
Somehow
Have
A
Right
To
That
As
Well
I
Mean
They
Don't
Own
The
Telephone
Line
They
Don't
Own
The
Servers
They
Don't
Own
Anything
It's
Just
Not
Their
There's
There's
Only
One
Reason
It's
Because
We
Let
Them
That's
Why
I'm
Not
Letting
Them
Well
The
Government
Is
Put
Into
Place
By
Us
And
We
Entrust
Them
To
Do
Certain
Things
And
Occasionally
They
Just
Sort
Of
They
Spin
Out
Of
Control
Like
You
Know
Some
Sort
Of
A
Rocket
That
Got
Launched
And
You
Have
To
Sometimes
Deal
With
That
And
Figure
Out
Ways
Of
Reining
It
In
And
What
The
Spring
edition
Of
2600
Is
Out
Now
It's
Out
Have
It
Right
Here
In
My
Hand
Oh
Yep
And
It's
Actually
It's
Been
Out
For
About
A
Month
But
There
Was
Some
Trouble
With
The
News
Stands
All
Right
Thank
You
And
Goodbye
Okay
Thanks
For
Calling
Bernie
I
Believe
You
Have
Your
Copy
Of
2600
I
Did
It
Actually
Was
Was
Allowed
Into
This
Institution
Interesting
It
Was
Not
Permitted
To
Be
I
Was
Not
Allowed
To
Receive
It
At
Delaware
County
Prison
Near
Philadelphia
Pennsylvania
It
Was
Not
Allowed
To
Receive
It
In
Federal
Prison
They
Said
It
Was
Not
In
Keeping
With
The
Sound
Orderly
And
Safe
Operation
Of
Institution
I
Think
Is
How
It
Is
That
Disturbs
Because
Whenever
We
Put
Out
An
Issue
The
First
Thing
We
Think
Of
Is
The
Sound
Orderly
Operation
Of
Prisons
And
How
We
Don't
Want
To
Disrupt
I
Took
Offense
At
It
Too
But
What
I
Find
Always
Ironic
Is
That
These
Prisons
Will
Will
Show
Videos
For
The
Inmates
Of
R-rated
Movies
Where
People
Are
Using
And
Selling
Drugs
And
Murdering
People
And
Stabbing
People
Shooting
People
And
That's
All
Okay
But
Sending
A
Magazine
That
Explains
How
Computers
Work
Is
Certainly
Not
In
Keeping
With
The
Safe
And
Orderly
Operations
Of
The
Institution
400
Good
Evening
You're
On
The
Air
Hi
I'm
Ben
Hi
Ben
I
Was
Wondering
I
Just
Want
To
Say
How
You
Did
You
Read
That
Article
In
The
New
York
Times
By
Clifford
Stoll
In
The
Op-Ed
No
When
Was
This
A
Few
Weeks
Ago
About
Like
The
Computers
In
The
Classrooms
What
Do
You
Wind
Up
Saying
About
Them
About
How
It's
Really
That
Like
They're
Putting
Computers
In
Both
The
Home
And
The
Classroom
And
Having
The
Teachers
And
Parents
Step
Back
It's
Not
A
Very
Healthy
Thing
Because
You're
Losing
A lot
Of
Human
Interaction
Which
I
Think
Is
Very
Important
To
The
Growing
Up
Process
Computers
Are
Great
But
They
Have
To
Be
Coupled
With
You
Various
Relationships
With
The
People
That
You're
Interacting
With
If
You're
Going
To
To
Have
A lot
Of
People
Now
All
The
Classrooms
Have
Computers
And
Stuff
And
They're
Networking
With
School
But
We
Don't
Even
Have
Tissues
Or
The
Bathrooms
Don't
Even
Work
All
We
Do
On
The
Computers
Just
Play
Games
And
Stuff
Like
The
Teachers
Barely
Even
Know
How
To
Use
Them
It's
Just
Really
A
Way
Yeah
And
Then
What
Happens
Is
Students
Figure
Out
A
Way
To
To
To
Gain
Access
To
Something
The
Teachers
Don't
Want
To
Gain
Access
To
And
Then
They
Get
In
Trouble
Because
The
Teacher
Has
Absolutely
No
Idea
What
They're
Doing
And
They
Think
That
This
Person
Is
The
Second
Coming
Of
Satan
And
They're
Ostracized
Forever
That's
Kind of
Like
What
They
Think
Of
Me
In
The
Library
At
My
School
I
Just
Like
Looking
Around
On
The
Network
And
Stuff
And
They're
Like
Oh
Get
Out
Library
Yeah
I'm
Just
Like
Seeing
How
It
Is
Set
Up
And
Stuff
Well
I mean
You should
Experiment
As
Much
As
Possible
Because
That's
That's
The
Whole
Purpose
Of
Computers
But
Be
Prepared
To
Meet
Up
Against
A
Brick
Wall
Of
Stupidity
With
People
That
Don't
Know
What
They're
Doing
But
For
Some
Reason
They
Have
Control
Of
It
Actually
The
School
System
Is
Sort
Of
Like
A
Micro
Cosm
The
Way
The
Whole
Government
Is
Set
Up
Also
What
What
School
Is
This
By
The
Way
Lomernick
High
School
In
Westchester
Yeah
Also
Like
On
The
Electromagnetic
Spectrum
Yes
I
Mean
Where
I
Don't
Think
They
Really
Have
A
Right
To
Go
To
I
Mean
It's
Like
A
Part
Of
Physics
It's
Like
Just
There
How
Can
They
Government
Like
Just
Say
If
They
Can
Bill
You
For
Gravity
They
Would
But
They
Haven't
Figured
Out
A
Way
To
Do
That
Yet
But
Yeah
I
Agree
With
You
I
Think
You
Know
There
Needs
To
Be
Some
Sort
Of
Voluntary
Compliance
System
But
The
Way
It
Lies
Ahead
And
Hasn't
Yet
Hit
New
York
But
I
Guess
It
Will
At
Some
Point
Okay
Just
One
More
Thing
How
Is
Walter
Doing
Walter
The
Dog
Is
Doing
Just
Fine
Walter
The
Human
Is
Doing
Fine
Too
We
Appreciate
That
Very
Much
These
Are
The
Official
2600
Pet
There
Actually
Someone
In
The
Studio
Wants
To
Know
What
Kind
Of
Computers
You
Had
In
That
Place
Oh
They
Like
Dell
Like
75
Megahertz
Pentiums
And
They
Like
Have
All
Windows
95
On
Which
I
Think
Is
Pretty
Stupid
Well
That's
All
You
Need
Yes
Windows
95
I'm
Like
Telling
Them
How
Unstable
And
Stuff
It
Is
Anyone
Can
Get
Into
This
Yeah
I
Know
It's
Windows
95
Is
Incredibly
Unstable
Is
One
Way
Of
Putting
It
Like
This
School
Is
Really
Big
And
They
Want
To
Run
The
Network
Like
Windows
NT
I
Don't
Know
How
That
Well
You
Know
Maybe
Just
Step
Back
And
Let
Them
Do
It
And
See
What
Happens
And
When
You
Have
To
Pick
Up
The
Pieces
Explain
To
Them
What
They
Did
Wrong
But
You
They'll
Never
Listen
To
You
At
This
Stage
I'm
Sure
That's
That's
Been
My
Experience
Okay
Thanks
For
Calling
Thanks
Take
Care
Bernie
Still
With
Us
Yeah
I
Was
Thinking
About
His
Comments
On
The
Government
Trying
To
Regulate
The
Electromagnetic
Spectrum
Which
For
Listeners
Who
Don't
Know
What
That
Means
Basically
It
Means
Radio
Frequencies
And
When
I
Go
Down
In
The
Spectrum
It
Sound
Frequencies
When
I
Go
Up
In
The
Spectrum
It
It's
Light
Frequencies
And
I
Guess
Since
They
Regulate
The
Whole
Radio
Spectrum
At
This
Point
I
Guess
They're
Trying
To
Regulate
The
Sound
Spectrum
Now
The
Tones
Used
In
Making
Telephones
Indicate
That
Coins
Have
Been
Deposited
Those
Tones
Are
Audio
Tones
The
Government
Is
Trying
To
Regulate
Certain
Sounds
Now
Certain
Sounds
Could
Be
Illegal
I
Don't
See
Too
Far
Off
In
The
Future
Where
They
Regulate
Certain
Light
Frequencies
As
Well
Certain
Colors
Will
Be
Banned
If
You
No
Longer
Look
At
The
Color
Red
Well
Actually
There
Are
Certain
Laws
In
Effect
In
Various
States
Where
If
You
Approach
A
Traffic
Light
With
A
Strobe
Light
In
The
Belief
That
You
Will
Set
It
Off
And
Make
It
Turn
Green
Like
You're
An
Ambulance
That's
Illegal
How
About
That
They've
Already
Started
Regulating
The
Light
Spectrum
Yes
They're
Ready
For
Us
So
That's
The
Story
There
You
I
Was
Thinking
You've
Been
In
Prison
For
So
Long
I
Wonder
Have
You
Even
Used
Windows
95
I
Was
Out
For
A
Few
Weeks
October
October
October
Friday
The
13th
Of
October
Last
Year
I
Was
Released
In
Federal
Custody
So
You
Got
A
Chance
To
Test
It
Out
I
Got
A
Job
With
The
Atlantic
Only
A
Few
Days
After
My
Release
And
Was
In
Front
Of
A
Workstation
Running
Windows
95
Access
Windows
NT
Well
Needless
To
Say
There
Is
No
Windows
96
But
We'll
Keep
You
Updated
On
That
I
Think
That's
Due
To
Come
Out
In
1998
Yeah
I
Think
That's
The
Plan
Too
Okay
212
279
3400
Good
Evening
You're
On
The
Air
Hello
Yes
Go
Ahead
Hi
How
You
Doing
Hi
I
Wanted
To
Bring
Up
A
Subject
That
I
Heard
A
A
Couple
Months
A
Remember
Those
FBI
Yes
Well
I
Had
A
Question
On
That
Okay
You're
Talking
About
Our
Website
Oh
Yeah
Okay
Well
I
Was
Looking
Through
The
Files
With
Some
Of
My
Friends
And
We're
Looking
At
It
You know
Having
A
Nice
Time
And
We saw
Something
Quite
Odd
Okay
We saw
Frank Sinatra's
Name
On
It
Yes
Frank
Sinatra's
Name
Was
One
Of
The
Codenames
Given
I
Imagine
The
Reason
For
That
Is
Because
Frank
Sinatra
Was
A
Friend
Of
Maybe
Nixon
Maybe
Ford
Who
Knows
Yeah
But
Something
That
We
Found
Quite
Strange
Was
That
Like
Hillary
Clinton's
Daughter
She
Wasn't
Given
Any
Federal
Protection
I
Mean
She's
Supposed
To
Have
Some
Now
But
When
Her
Parents
Are
Out
Of
Office
There
She's
Not
Supposed
To
Get
Any
That's
True
So
How
Come
She's
The
Daughter
Of
The
President
She's
Not
On
It
What
Frank
Sinatra
Is
Well
No
That
Doesn't
Mean
He's
Getting
Protection
Now
That
Just
Means
That
Was
A
Codename
That
Was
Used
For
Him
During
A
Particular
Administration
So
What
We
Basically
Do
Is
If
We
Get
A
Codename
It
Stays
On
There
Forever
So
We
Know
What
The
Codename
Was
Yeah
A lot
Of
The
Information
On
That
List
Is
No
Longer
Being
Used
But
We
Thought
For
Historical
Purposes
It
Was
Interesting
Apparently
Either
Reagan
Or
Nixon
Or
Four
One
Of
Those
Characters
Met
With
Sinatra
At
Some
Function
And
Secret
Service
Referred
To
Sinatra
By
Codename
Rather
Than
By
His
Real
Name
I
Don't
Think
They're
Doing
That
Now
I'd
Like
To
Know
How
They
Come
Up
With
These
Names
Do
They
Have
A
Some
Sort
Of
A
Committee
Meeting
They
Sit
Around
A
Round
Table
And
They
Say
You
Know
Reagan
Should
Be
Spider
Man
No
No
He
Should
Be
Batman
How
Do
They
Decide
What
Name
They're
Going
To
Use
That
Would
Be
A
Really
Interesting
Thing
To
Find
Out
I'd
Like
To
Know
Who's
Responsible
Picking
These
Names
I think
In
The
Presidential
Administrations
They
Use
The
First
Letter
Did
We
Figure
Out
That
The
First
Letter
Of
Each
Administration
Codenames
Was
The
But
They
Still
Have
To
Come
Up
With
A
Name
Beyond
That
And
That
I
Don't
Know
If
One
Person
Is
In
Charge
Of
That
If
They
Have
To
Come
Up
With
A
Majority
Vote
If
There's
Any
Ex
Secret
Service
People
Out
There
That
Are
In
Particularly
Friendly
Mood
They
Can
Always
Call
Us
And
Share
Information
Or
Email
Us
We
Know
They're
Listening
Yes
We
Do
Know
They're
Listening
We
Do
Know
That
They
They've
Made
No
Secret
Of
That
So
Maybe
Maybe
Some
Other
People
Have
Found
Out
About
It
As
Well
And
They're
Willing
To
Share
Some
Information
You
Can
Email
us
OTH
At
2600.com
Hey
Manuel
Yes
Go
ahead
Hi
I
Don't
Know
If
I
Can
Say
This
On
The
Can
I
I
About
Some
Things
I
Did
I
Don't
Know
It's
We
Don't
Know
Who
You
Are
As
Long
As
They
Don't
Involve
The
Seven
Dirty
Words
That
The
FCC
Says
We
Can't
Say
No
I
Think
You
Can
Probably
Tell
Us
But
Keep
In
Mind
That
They
Might
Know
Who
You
Are
I
Doubt
It
Okay
Okay
I
Started
Going
To
This
School
And
What
Happens
Is
That
I
I
Been
Attacking
For
About
Three
Years
Now
And
You
Know
Looking
For
Some
Hacker
Buddies
Because
We
Usually
They
Were
In
Groups
You
Been
Attacking
Not
Hacking
Oh
I
Thought
You
You
Were
Attacking
You
Been
Hacking
Okay
Yes
Which
In
Many
People's
Eyes
Is
The
Same
Thing
But
We
Know
It's
Not
Well
When
I
Came
Over
Here
I
Started
Checking
Out
The
School
Computer
System
And
Something
That
Got
Me
Really
Upset
Was
That
The
Teachers
Were
Getting
Mad
At
Me
For
Just
Looking
Through
The
Systems
When
These
Teachers
Didn't
Even
Know
What
DOS
Was
And
That
Really
Got
Me
Angry
Well
You
Know
They're
Very
Sensitive
To
Things
That
They
Don't
Understand
They
See
You
Looking
Through
And
They
Assume
You
Know
More
Than
They
Do
And
They
Find
All
The
Secrets
And
They
Know
What
It
Is
Well
Thing
Is
I
Wanted
To
Get
Revenge
On
This
Kid
Who
Ratted
Me
Out
I
Didn't
Do
Anything
Bad
I
Just
Put
In
Bootleg
Games
On
The
Computer
For
Everyone
Else
To
Play
I
Did
It
For
Everyone
Else's
Pleasure
And
Teachers
Didn't
Really
Know
Or
Didn't
Really
Care
Because
The
Kids
Came
In
They
Played
Games
Right
In
Front
Of
Teachers
Until
One
Teacher
Actually
Question
Where
It
Came
From
Half
The
People
Didn't
Even
Know
Where
It
Came
From
But
Then
One
Kid
Decided
To
Snitch
And
Then
I
Got
In
Trouble
But
The
Problem
Is
That
They
Can't
Find
The
Files
Because
I
Changed
All
Of
Their
Names
And
There
Are
About
100
Different
Of
And
Now
They
Want
Me
To
Come
And
Take
Them
Out
One
By
One
But
You
Still
Banned
Yes
Yeah
It's
Yeah
It's
Going
To
Be
A
Bit
Tricky
A
Lot
Of
People
Seem
To
Realize
That
Games
Can
Actually
Be
Good
I
Mean
Not
All
The
Time
Obviously
You
Don't
Want
To
Be
Playing
Games
All
The
Time
But
To
Have
A
Blanket
Ban
On
Them
Is
A
Very
Bad
Thing
Because
Games
Show
People
That
Computers
Can
Be
Used
In
Happy
Ways
And
Also
There's
Ways
Of
Manipulating
The
Games
Rewriting
The
Software
Figuring
Out
How
To
Make
Something
More
Efficient
That's
How
You
Really
Learn
Things
About
Computers
Yeah
It
Is
I
Mean
I
Spent
A
Lot
Of
Time
On
My
Computers
And
I
Haven't
Gotten
Web
Access
Until
For
About
Four
Months
Until
Four
Months
From
Now
I
Did
Mostly
Manual
Hacking
And
I
Learned
A
Lot
About
How
Computers
Work
And
Operating
Systems
From
That
And
Ironically
I
Got
All
That
From
A
Teacher
Who
Gave
Me
Access
To
His
Computer
In
My
Old
School
And
He
Encouraged
Me
That
Was
A
Good
Teacher
Very
Good
Teacher
He
Gave
Me
He
Had
His
Own
Computer
And
He
Gave
Me
Access
To
It
On
My
Free
Period
And
That's
Pretty
Much
Where
I
Learned
Everything
And
I
Bet
You
Never
Would
Have
Done
Anything
Malicious
Oh
I'm
Facing
Another
Problem
On
Usenet
On
2600
News
Group
Alt
2600
Yeah
Okay
We're
Very
Loosely
Affiliated
With
That
By
The
Way
I
Just
Want to
Point
That
Out
Yes
Okay
It
Sort
Of
Has
A
Life
Of
Its
Own
I
Can
See
That
Because
They're
Always
Posting
All
These
Christian
Things
On
The
News
Group
Well
Basically
It's
Just
A
Free
For
All
People
Post
Whatever
They
Want to
Post
Yeah
True
Well
There's
Been
A
Spat
That
We're
Discussing
Hacker
Ethics
I
Had
When
I
First
Started
Hacking
I
Didn't
Know
What
A
Hacker
Was
I
Was
Just
Doing
It
Then
I
Started
Reading
Up
On
It
And
Then
I
Started
Reading
Up
On
The
MIT
Hackers
In
The
Old
Days
And
Then
I
Was
Learning
About
All
The
Hacker
Ethics
And
What
It
Was
Whatever
But
What I've
Noticed
Is
That
In
The
Hacker
Community
Maybe
Not
In
New
York
City
Because
I
Haven't
Encountered
That
In
New
York
City
But
Maybe
In
More
Remote
Areas
Like
Way
Out
Long
Island
There's
A
Lot
Of
Discrimination
Discrimination
In
What
Way
On
Mostly
Age
Sex
And
Color
Mostly
Sex
And
Age
But
It's
Hacker
Hacking
Has
Not
Become
Something
Where
You're
Curious
To
Learn
To
Learn
More
About
Computers
It's
Become
More
Of
A
Competition
Kind
Like
A
Power
Trip
Right
Well
I
Mean
You
Know
That
Was
Inevitable
With
The
Glamorization
And
You
Know
Films
And
Newspaper
Articles
And
Things
Coming
Out
About
Hacking
It
Romanticized
That
A lot
Of
People
Want
To
Get
Into
It
They
Want
The
Easy
Road
And
They
Miss
Out
On
The
Developmental
Process
Where
They
Become
A
Hacker
You
Don't
Instantly
Turn
Into
A
Hacker
You
Just
Can't
Do
It
You
Have
To
Go
Through
A
Long
Process
Of
Learning
And
Figuring
Things
Out
And
Deciding
That
That's
What
You
Like
To
Do
So
I
Would
Say
People
That
Aren't
Sharing
The
Information
And
Discriminating
In
Various
Ways
They
May
Consider
Themselves
Hackers
But
Few
Others
Do
Ironically
A
Couple
Years
A
If
I
Asked
Anyone
What
A
Hacker
Was
They
Wouldn't
Be
A
Answer
Me
But
Now
That
I
Have
A
Reputation
As
Notorious
Hacker
When
I
Done
Nothing
Wrong
I
Have
These
Little
Kids
Coming
Up
To
Me
Saying
Can
You
Teach
How
To
Hack
And
I
Just
Look
At
Them
Right
It's
Really
Funny
But
It's
Like
Hacking
Isn't
Just
Hacking
There
Should
Be
Some
Kind
Of
Definition
For
It
Seems
You
Show
Somebody
A
Sense
Of
The
Hacker
Ethic
And
What
It's
All
About
The
Feeling
Of
Adventure
That's
Something
We
Can
All
Share
Whether
Whether
We
Consider
Ourselves
Hackers
Or
Not
Once
You
See
That
Once
You
Feel
That
Going
Through
Your
Veins
You
Know
That
Hackers
Are
Not
Criminals
And
Not
The
People
That
Are
Going
Around
Trying
To
Crash
The
Military
And
All
That
Kind
Of
Thing
It's
It's
Basically
Learning
It's
A
Whole
Learning
Experience
The
Thrill
You
Get
Hacking
Is
The
Same
Thrill
You
Get
When
You're
Learning
Something
That
You're
Really
Into
And
That's
What
I
Think
People
Need
To
Understand
Okay
I
Just
Have
One
More
Question
Okay
Is
This
Supposed
To
Be
A
2600
Meeting
This
Week
Well
There
Is
Technically
But
The
Way
Things
Are
Right
Now
At
Citicorp
It's
The
Building
Is
In
Shambles
And
It's
Going
To
Be
That
Way
For
The
Next
Few
Months
So
Me
Myself
I
Am
Not
Going
To
To
New
York
Meeting
For
A
While
I'm
Going
To
Voyaging
Around
The
Country
Visiting
Some
Of
The
Other
Meetings
If
People
Show
Up
There
It's
Probably
Best
To
Meet
Outside
Or
Something
Where
There's
More
Space
Because
Right
Now
They
Have
Us
Huddled
Into
A
Hallway
And
It's
Kind
Like
Rats
Inside
Some
Sort
Of
A
Cage
Or
Something
It's
Not
Really
Conducive
To
Civilization
Been
A few
Months
It
Should
Be
Really
Kind
Of
Good
Okay
All right
Well
Thank you
Emanuel
Bye
Okay
Let's
See
If
We
Can
Squeeze
In
Another
Call
Good
Evening
You're
On
The
Air
Go
Ahead
Speak
Up
I
Think
I
Heard
You
On
WUSB
Stony Brook
That's
Quite
Possible
Sometimes
My
Voice
Emanates
Out
Of
All
Kinds
Of
Different
Frequencies
I
Guess
That's
All
They
Wanted
To
Say
Boy
I'm
Busted
They
Found
Me
On
Another
Station
Wow
Good
Evening
You're
On
The
Air
Okay
That's
A
Dial
Town
Bernie
You're
Still
There
Still
There
Bernie
Yep
Okay
Sometimes
Dial
Towns
Have
Adverse
Effects
On
Prison
Phone
Systems
Good
Evening
You're
On
The
Air
Oh
Wonderful
Hi
This is
Jeremy
Calling
Hi
Bernie
Are
You
There
Hi
Jeremy
Hi
Thank you
For
Your
Letter
I'm
Still
Putting
Together
A
Long
Letter
To
Reply
To
It
Great
Thank
You
You
Have
About
Two
Minutes
Did
You
Get
The
Radical
Calendar
I
Was
Wondering
If
They
Got
That
To
You
They
Would
Not
Radical
Calendar
Yeah
I
Thought
You
Would
Really
Dig
It
I
Was
Going
To
Say
Well
One
Thing
In
World
War
Two
Passwords
Were
Japanese
Password
In
Field
The
Japanese
Were
Not
Able
To
Pronounce
L
And
All
The
Passwords
Were
As
Many
L's
As
You
Could
Get
One
Of
The
Passwords
Was
Clark
Gable
In
Other
Words
To
Go
Through
In
Field
To
Get
Into
The
Area
The
Compound
At
Night
You
Had
To
Say
These
Passwords
My
Father
Has
This
Booklet
Of
All
The
Passwords
And
They
All
Have
L
In
Them
Bernie
Have
You
Been
There
For
Over
One
Year
I
Was
Just
Curious
As
Far
As
The
Publicity
Well
The
Total
Time
Incarcerated
As
Of
July
12th
Will
Be
One
Year
There
Was
Almost
A
Three
Month
Period
From
October
Through
January
That
I
Was
Out
But
Then
I
Was
Re-Incarcerated
Because
My
Federal
Conviction
Was
A
Violation
Of
Probation
For
A
Misdemeanor
Charge
That
Occurred
In
93
But
In
A
Few
Weeks
I
Will
Have
Been
Incarcerated
For
A
Total
Of
A
Year
Right
I
Wanted
To
Say
That
People
The
Listenership
Could
Write
The
Letters
And
It
Would
Best
To
Come
From
Us
Rather
Than
You
Requesting
Letters
Emmanuel
I
Had
Left
You
Message
Yes
So
Maybe
Something
Could
Be
Done
To
Encourage
People
To
Write
Letters
And
That
Would
Be
Great
A
Letter
Writing
Campaign
Would
Be
Great
But
It
Shouldn't
Obviously
Come
From
Well
What
We're
Going
To
Be
Looking
Into
The
Options
In
The
Next
Couple
Of
Days
See
Just
Who's
Not
Doing
Their
Job
And
I
Think
By
Next
Week
At
This
Time
If
It's
Still
At
This
Stage
We'll
Have
Very
Definite
Plan
Of
Action
As
Far
As
How
To
Go
For
Now
We're
Just
Going
To
Make
Some
Phone
Calls
And
Start
Putting
The
Pressure
On
A
Little
Bit
Thanks
For
The
Call
We're
Out
Of
Time
Bernie
Very
Quickly
Give
Out
Your
Send
Road
That's
E-A-S-T-O-N
That's
In
Doylestown
D-O-Y-L-E-S-T-O-W-N
P-A
1-8-9-0-1
It's
Very
Important
Anything
You
Send
Me
It
Can
Only
Be
Reading
Materials
First
Of
All
No
Stamps
Or
Playthings
No
Saws
But
It
Has
To
Say
On
The
Envelope
Reading
Materials
Otherwise
It
Will
Be
Rejected
Send
Right
Back
Yes
I'd
Appreciate
It
Very
Much
Okay
Thanks
Very
Much
For
Being
With
Us
Tonight
And
Again
If
You
Want
To
Write
To
Bernie
Over
The
Internet
The
Address
Is
Bernie
S
At
2600.com
We
Will
Forward
It
To
Him
Hopefully
He
Won't
Be
There
Too
Much
Longer
Hopefully
We'll
Have
Him
Here
In
The
Studio
And
He
Can
Tell
Us
All
His
Adventures
Live
On
The
Air
In
Person
That's
Going
To
Do
It
For
Us
The
Telephone
Keeps
Ringing
So
I
Ripped
It
Up
I
Cut
Myself
While
Shaving
Now
I
Can't
Make
A
Cough
It
Couldn't
Yet
Much
Worse
But
If
They
Could
They
Would
For
Billy
Bon
For
The
Best
Despect
For
Burst
I
Hope
That
Fun
Is
Good
But
Making
It
No
Too
Good
об
Five
Much
Have
them
They
km
s
Thank you.
From June 4th through June 27th, on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays at 10.30pm, WBAI Arts in the Evening presents the radio drama The Fruits of Miss Morning, written by Elmo Terry Morgan. That's here on WBAI 99.5 FM in New York City.
And good evening. It's WBAI New York 99.5 FM.
It's 901 time for...