This accounted for the lighting on Iopetus.
Iopetus was lit on three-fourths of its surface,
and one-fourth of it was dark,
and the strange thing in addition to that was
that the dark side was the side where the sun was coming in.
That was Dr. Norman Alberglin of Los Altos, California,
and formerly of Ames Research Center,
which later became NASA.
Join us as we discuss his book, Ringmakers of Saturn,
and learn the facts about Saturn from data sent to Earth
via the Voyager 1 and Voyager 2 spacecraft,
Monday a.m., the 28th of July,
inside of Sidney Smith's carrier wave.
This is one program to stay up for.
UFO Desk over WBAI New York,
and of course, you are invited.
And this is radio station WBAI in New York.
Back again this week for a live edition of Off the Hook.
The telephone keeps ringing,
so I ripped it off and off.
I cut myself while shaving,
now I can't make a call.
It couldn't get much worse,
but if it could, it would.
Oh, did it bump for the best you expect from birth?
I hope that fun is good.
Monday, Monday, Monday, Monday.
Go!
We'll be right back.
And a good evening, everybody.
This is Emanuel Goldstein
with a brand-new edition of Off the Hook
after two weeks of what we call retrospective shows
where we journey back into the past
to see what kinds of things we started out this program with,
and it was pretty interesting.
But now we're back with all kinds of new material,
and you know, when I was over there in England,
guess what I found?
The soundtrack to Hackers.
I think it's out here, too,
but you'll just have to wait to find it.
Magic people, voodoo people!
The voodoo who do what you do,
the voodoo who do what you do,
the voodoo who do what you do.
The voodoo who do what you do,
the voodoo who do what you do,
the voodoo who do what you do.
Oh, my God.
And, you know, I've never been to Iceland in my life,
and the place looked like the moon when you land on it,
just like craters and red barren rock.
And, you know, I don't mean to put the place down or anything like that
because it seems, despite all that, like a nice place to live.
You know, people are there and they're having fun
and frolicking around, that kind of thing.
But it is red barren rock in many places,
and you can't get away from that fact.
No trees, I can see anyway, just kind of, you know,
stretching out into the horizon.
And I really wanted to stay at this place, you know,
for like a day or something and just sort of see what Iceland is like.
But unfortunately, I had to get back on the plane
and be off to my destination,
which actually, the way that I travel is kind of a hack in itself, I guess,
because basically you kind of hitch a ride onto an airline
through this service that does that kind of thing.
I'm not going to give their name out because I don't want to give free publicity.
But there are several services like this where you basically buy a voucher
and they tell you where to go.
They tell you what airline or what terminal has planes
that are going sort of where you want to go,
sort of at the time you want to go.
So you never really know where you're going to end up.
And in my case, I went through Iceland
and I was supposed to wind up in Luxembourg.
No particular reason to be in Luxembourg because I wanted to be in England,
but it was closer there than it is here.
So I figured, you know, I'd just sort of take a train
and get over there at some point.
Well, it didn't quite work out that way.
There were weather situations.
I remember we were coming down in Luxembourg
after a rather turbulent flight,
and we just kept coming down into these clouds.
The clouds just kept surrounding us.
We just kept going down and down.
You know, I was thinking to myself,
how does this guy know when the ground is supposed to come up?
You know, there's nothing but clouds.
He can't see anything.
I mean, is this radar really working?
You know, and when is this going to end?
I just want to be on the ground.
So we keep going down.
It keeps getting turbulent.
There's thunder.
There's lightning.
There's all kinds of things.
And all of a sudden, we start going up again.
I'm like, at least I think we're going up.
And I'm wondering, why are we going up
when we're supposed to be going down?
Is my sense of motion askew or something?
And then there's an announcement,
which, of course, the announcement is in French.
It's in Spanish.
It's in Swedish.
It's in Hungarian.
Then it's in English, finally.
And the announcement was that
because of turbulent weather,
it wasn't safe to land.
So they're going to go to Cologne, Germany instead.
Now, they weren't going to land in Luxembourg
because it was, you know, dangerous.
So that made me feel great.
We landed in Cologne.
But then we stayed on the ground
for like about an hour or so.
And the pilot announced that he wanted
to take another shot at Luxembourg.
At that point, I realized that
I didn't really want to take another shot at Luxembourg.
I wanted to get off the plane right then and there in Cologne
because it didn't make any difference to me.
I just wanted to be in Europe.
But I had to get special permission
from the station manager to get off the plane
in that particular city.
And that took another hour to do.
But eventually, they let me off the plane.
I just had a single bag.
I walked off the plane.
Everyone was staring at me,
one person getting off.
And, you know, we were in the middle of the airport.
It's like that place where they put planes
when they get hijacked, you know.
No real terminal.
Just the place where you just kind of park the thing.
A very inconvenient, awkward place for a plane to be.
And so I had to get into the guy's car.
The actual station manager came to get me in his car,
which he parked right underneath the airplane.
And then he had to go out and steer the plane
back onto the runway.
You know, he had to wear those little headphones
and hold the little lighted things.
And he was out there for a good 20 minutes
just standing under the plane with headphones.
I didn't know what he was doing,
if he was listening to a record or something.
Finally, he came back after the plane left.
And I asked him what that was all about.
And he said,
Oh, well, that's our way of communicating with the pilot.
You see, we tell him to test his lights,
test his signals, test his horn, whatever they test.
And he really said this.
He said,
And if, for instance, something's on fire,
we can tell him.
So, like, oh, that's really neat.
So the plane took off.
And then he drove me to this very special passport place
where there's just one guy who maybe checks one passport a day.
And he just looked at me and nodded.
And I was in the country.
That's the way to get into a country.
And so from there, I had to make my way to England,
which wasn't really too difficult.
And in England, I got to tell you, England is changing.
Everyone is using cellular phones now.
Everyone is using them.
And it's really kind of neat how they use these things now
because it's a different system than what we have here.
In fact, I made it over to Holland as well.
And they had cellular phones there, quite a lot of them.
Everybody was using them.
And the system is called GSM.
It's a digital system.
It's, I think, much, much better priced than the system here.
The way they work it is they have a special area code.
And if you call that area code from within the country,
you pay a little bit more.
I'm not sure exactly how much.
It's not a phenomenal amount.
But the flip side of that is that if you use the phone,
if you receive a phone call, you don't pay for incoming service.
That's kind of neat.
I mean, that's one of the main reasons I don't use a cellular phone
is because I don't like the idea of paying when somebody calls me.
It doesn't really make much sense.
So they did away with that.
And they have this service in London where you can call unlimited within the city
between 7 p.m. and 7 a.m. and all weekend long.
And so you have these people that use the phone, you know, as a baby monitor
or something like that.
But, you know, so what?
That's what you expect when you have a situation like that.
The GSM phones and the other digital phones have special services.
For instance, one thing you can do, which I think is really incredible,
let's say you're trying to reach somebody on a cellular phone
and for some reason it's either busy
or maybe you just don't want to talk to them
or maybe you just want to send them a message.
You can actually type out a message on your phone
and have it sent to their phone.
Their phone will beep with your digital message.
It's like calling those digital pagers
except you don't have to talk to the stupid operator
and tell her your secrets.
You just type it on the phone.
It gets sent to the other phone, shows up there.
And the best part is there's no charge for that.
It's not even a phone call.
They charge you nothing.
It's just part of the service.
It's so you can communicate to your heart's content in that manner.
That's something we don't have here, to the best of my knowledge,
something I think we really should have here.
Also, you can't listen in on their phone calls the same way,
at least on the digital, the new GSM services.
You can't listen in, at least not as easily.
We were trying and weren't able to actually find something.
So they've made a lot of technological advances in that field.
I don't know what we're waiting for here.
GSM just hasn't been introduced in this area,
and I don't think anything comparable has been as well.
I'm sure if it has, somebody will call me and correct me on that.
Phone cards.
They use phone cards like there's no tomorrow.
Every country now has gone from diffraction grading to chip cards.
And BT, British Telecom, now has, it's kind of weird.
You buy a phone card now, and they say, these are the new phone cards.
Look for the special green arrow that points to the phones where you use the new phone card.
And lots of times I wound up at what looked like phone card phones,
but they didn't take the same phone card.
They took the other kind that you put in width-wise.
These ones you put in length-wise.
So a lot of the phones have two different card readers as a solution to that.
So they have a coin slot and two card readers,
and things just start getting enormous at that stage.
So that's part of the advances they have there.
A lot of phone card technology.
You buy it for, say, five pounds or so,
and you just watch the money tick away as you talk on the phone.
It's good, though, to have coins, because you can't always find the cards.
And unfortunately, in France, that's not easy to do.
You can't use coins at all.
You have to have a card.
And if you can't find a place that sells a card, you're out of luck.
So there's good and bad to that.
But they do seem to have the system down.
And they certainly do.
Okay, a couple other things were happening.
Of course, I was over there for a hacker conference, Access All Areas.
Which took place in London.
And I had a bunch of speakers over Saturday and Sunday.
That was last Saturday and Sunday.
And, well, I guess it was kind of surprising to me
to see how many people showed up at the 2600 meeting in London.
How many people do you think would show up to something like that?
I thought maybe five, ten.
I mean, it's London, for God's sake.
How many people could show up?
Well, it turns out about 60 people showed up.
Sixty people showed up to the meeting.
And that was really a surprise for me.
And a lot of pretty knowledgeable people over there, too.
They're doing some pretty amazing things as far as figuring out technology,
playing with telephones, playing with computers,
and spreading information around.
One thing they don't have yet, though, is a magazine.
A printed magazine.
They've got all kinds of other technology,
but they don't have something on paper.
And I think part of the reason for that is because
they don't have the same freedom of press that we have here.
Or at least on paper, they don't have the same freedom of press that we have here.
Or the freedom of press, which is quickly being eroded.
But that's one thing that they envy.
And I guess we can envy a lot of things of theirs.
And I speak of virtually all the Europeans when I say this.
They don't have the kind of censorship that we have over here.
They don't have the kind of speech control.
They don't have the manic obsession with rules and regulations.
Like, you know, to give you an example,
you can park a car in a street the wrong way.
Now, can you imagine if you did that in New York?
You know, you park a car facing the wrong way.
I mean, what difference does it make?
It doesn't make any difference.
Everybody does.
In Germany, they park anywhere they can.
They can park in, you know, facing in the street.
They can park facing out the street, backwards, forwards.
I mean, one wheel on the sidewalk.
It doesn't really matter.
It doesn't make a big difference.
Here, though, you'd be public enemy number one
if you've even tried something like that.
The other thing is censorship, of course.
Always a big issue with people who listen to this show,
people who listen to this radio station.
I don't know exactly where it is we're heading,
but the speech control that I see every day around here is frightening.
Over in Europe, you can hear unedited songs on the radio.
You can hear things with words that you might not agree with,
but they're there, you know,
and if you don't like it, you turn it off.
It's funny, you know,
songs that I don't think I've ever heard on the radio,
you know, like songs by such, I guess, evil bands
as Green Day and Alanis Morissette,
you know, songs that use words
you're not supposed to say on the radio here,
they play them there,
and it doesn't make a big difference,
and people don't care,
and it's not a big uproar about it.
They have advertisements with nudity in them.
They have, you know, they show nipples, you know, in an advertisement.
You know, nipples the size of somebody's head because it's a huge ad.
Imagine if they did that in the New York City subway.
What would happen?
You know, what are we so worried about?
We laugh at fundamentalist people who try and influence us
and tell us that we're all doomed to hell
and we have to follow this particular strict lifestyle.
We laugh at them at the same time we follow exactly what they say,
and we're afraid to take any chances.
You know, in London, when I was hanging out with some people,
we were listening to some pirate radio stations.
Yeah, they have lots of pirate radio stations everywhere,
and that's what a lot of people listen to.
That's where they get information.
That's where they get the new music.
Like, you know, you can't hear music like what you just heard
on any station that I know of on a regular basis
except on pirate stations over there.
That's who plays it.
They have this new kind of music called Happy Hardcore.
Happy Hardcore.
You guys ever heard of Happy Hardcore?
Oh, okay.
We've heard of it here, but nobody else I don't think has ever heard of this.
It's like speeded up piano, speeded up female vocals,
and just like a really happy sound.
And there's this radio station over there that just like plays this.
And there's a guy probably sitting in his house
having the time of his life playing these records,
and there's people all over London listening.
And, you know, if we did something like that over here,
even though it wouldn't be interfering with any other radio frequency,
it would be like, you know, like blowing up a building or something.
You'd be marked as an enemy of the state.
And it's weird, you know, because you don't think of it that way
when you're over here.
You think that it's a free nation, that we can do whatever we want,
but when you see how other people do things,
we're really not as free as some of us seem to think.
And it's disheartening to say this, but it's unfortunately true.
So, we have censorship, we have an overwhelming amount of control of things,
newspapers to a degree, broadcasting to a great degree,
and the Internet real soon.
Imagine my surprise over in London on June 26th,
and I pick up a copy of the International Herald Tribune,
and there on the very front page, front page headline,
CIA chief, citing security threat, maps a war plan on hackers.
Oh, boy.
That's real comforting to somebody thinking of coming back home.
CIA has targeted us as the enemy.
Well, you know, a few weeks ago, when we mentioned the story
about how 250,000 alleged hackers somehow were attacking the Pentagon,
we asked all these questions.
What does that mean?
Where are they getting these numbers from?
250,000, and they said two-thirds of those attempts were successful.
It sounded totally bogus to us, and we said, you know,
the only purpose of this story is to have some sort of a reaction to it.
Well, friends, here's the reaction.
Alarmed at the growing threat computer hackers posed to national security,
the director of central intelligence, John M. Deutsch,
announced plans Tuesday to create a cyber war center
to protect the bits and bytes that weave the nation together.
No film.
No film can parallel that opening paragraph, I'm sorry,
with stupidity and utterly...
I don't know.
I don't know how to describe this, but let's continue.
The United States still cannot be brought to its knees by a madman with a modem,
but the nation's intelligence agencies are alert to the threat of very, very large attacks
on the computers that run Pentagon war rooms, power plants, telephone systems,
air traffic control, and international financial transfers, Mr. Deutsch said.
And then he came up with a great soundtrack, soundbite, Fritsch's soundtrack.
The Electron, he warned, is the ultimate precision...
I'll try it again.
The Electron, he warned, is the ultimate precision-guided weapon.
Mr. Deutsch said he was seeking to create a cyber war center at the National Security Agency,
the giant electronic eavesdropping branch of American intelligence.
He said the center could focus the government's efforts to understand and combat the threat
that hacking attacks by governments, terrorist groups, and mischievous 16-year-olds
pose depending on computers, public utilities, and private banking records.
To date, he said, the government's efforts have been scattershot.
Great word, that is.
And then we get into the...
I don't know how many of you remember the Now It Can Be Told show a few years ago,
the epitome of sensationalism.
It looks like this guy was watching it because he came up with all these words that were used
only in that show.
I've never seen them used anywhere else, things like Electronic Pearl Harbor.
Remember that?
They talked about Electronic Pearl Harbor, and they show a nuclear bomb going off.
You know, that was Hiroshima.
Hello.
No, that wasn't Pearl Harbor.
They even got the graphics wrong for it.
Mr. Deutsch's statement about information warfare or cyber war, if you don't know what
the real word for that is, came in testimony before Senator Sam Nunn, a Georgia Democrat,
who called a hearing of a Senate Governmental Affairs Subcommittee to discuss the little-understood,
highly-classified problem.
There are some who believe we are going to have an electronic Pearl Harbor, so to speak,
before we really make this the kind of priority that many of us believe it deserves to be
made.
Wow.
What a sentence.
Before we really make this the kind of priority that many of us believe it deserves to be made.
Oh, boy.
Do you think we're going to need that kind of real awakening, or are we fully alerted to
this danger now, said Mr. Nunn?
Mr. Deutsch replied, I think that we are fully alerted to it now.
I don't know whether we will face an electronic Pearl Harbor, but we will have, I'm sure, some
very unpleasant circumstances.
I'm certainly prepared to predict some very, very large and uncomfortable incidents.
Mr. Deutsch said cyber war could become a 21st century national security threat, second
only to nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons.
CIA, yes.
His testimony reflected how the nature of national security has changed since the end of the
Cold War.
Or, once war planners worried that a single nuclear blast high over Omaha could crash every
computer in the country, rendering communications networks brainless and war rooms powerless.
Now they worry less about Russian rockets than about teenage hackers.
Well, you know, I think what's really significant about this is, for the first time ever, there's
talk of the Central Intelligence Agency and the National Security Agency turning their attention
to the American public.
You know, their charter prohibits them from doing that.
They have to focus on external things to the United States.
And now, all of a sudden, they're talking about focusing on us and using computer hackers
as the excuse.
What do you think about that?
That's the news that I got when I was over there, and it just made it so thrilling to
come back here.
So, that's the latest on that.
We have an update on Bernie S.
And Pam is here with information on that.
Pam, is your microphone working?
I think so.
Okay, great.
Now, obviously, since we had the repeat shows the last couple of weeks, we haven't been
able to hear from Bernie S., but you've been in touch with him, and there have been some
developments.
He is still in prison.
He should have been out in June, as far as all of us can tell.
But because of what I consider to be a criminal delay on the part of the authorities, he's
still there, and there have been some other developments as well.
Why don't you tell us?
Well, the latest from Bernie S., we've got some really bad news this week.
His appeal has been rejected completely.
The Third Circuit Court of Appeals judges said that the law he was charged with was not
vague in the least.
That was last year's conviction.
He was appealing the conviction based on the law being a lot too vague.
Right.
Bernie and his lawyer had put together over 200 pages of appeal, and it was just completely
rejected on its face.
So he was pretty down about that when I spoke to him last night.
There was some better news.
He had his parole interview last Tuesday, the 2nd.
It was supposed to happen two months prior to his early release date.
In his opinion, that should have been June 5th, his first early release date.
The parole board thinks it's July 11th.
Even so, July 2nd is not two months before that.
They're saying in Harrisburg that's a computer error.
Go figure.
Computer error.
How ironic.
I'm sure they're saying that.
The good thing was he actually had the interview.
The bad thing was that he had it on the 2nd, and they cannot submit paperwork except on
the 1st of the month.
So his paperwork for parole won't even be submitted until the 1st of August.
And the parole interview gentleman suspects that he probably wouldn't even be paroled until
earliest November.
Oh, this is just so unbelievable.
Talk about criminal.
This is so unbelievable.
And they're just doing this to totally screw with them.
They're not...
There's no basis for this.
Because everybody else who reaches this stage, it's just understood that after you serve
your minimum sentence, you get released on parole.
Exactly.
And they're not doing that for him.
I do have contact numbers for parole boards and such, if anybody is interested.
Okay.
Do you know what kind of effect people can have?
Uncertain at this point.
I did want to talk to Ed's lawyer about that before we all just go calling the parole board.
Right.
We don't want to have a negative effect.
I would say if you're truly interested, you know, email to the Bernie S. account and we
could try to organize something.
Now, he's been transferred to a minimum security prison.
Yeah, that was the good news.
Okay.
As of Monday, he was transferred to minimum security.
It did take all day, but...
And he did have an interesting experience because the first thing they did on letting
him into minimum security was make him take off his prison garb and change into what he
had been put in that prison in, which was prison garb from Northampton County Prison.
So, they wouldn't let him wear that.
He had a little bit of an interesting experience, but remember, he had some sweatpants in his
previous belongings.
So, that's one of the good things is he can wear real clothes now.
The cell he's in is slightly bigger.
He's not in bunk beds, separate beds, and he does have a window, about an 18 by 18 window
that looks out on the lovely parking lot.
But he can see sunlight, doesn't open, but that was a little improvement in his conditions.
And he said he spent his first day, his first evening, lying in the grass, looking up at
dusk.
So, he was very happy about that.
The visiting policies have changed dramatically.
Timing is similar, but he is allowed to have visits in an outside open area on picnic benches.
You can bring him food, clothes, books, no alcohol, no scissors, no razor blades.
But it's much more liberal.
That's good, at least.
Yeah, and he's very much looking forward to that.
Um, so, uh, his first visits will be open this weekend.
Okay.
Well, I mean, there's a mixture of good and bad in there.
He's, uh, he's in a better place, but he's still in a place.
And I can't imagine, I mean, we're talking about somebody who, uh, who, uh, several years
ago was accused of, of, uh, ripping up a piece of paper.
That's really what this boils down to.
We're taking the batteries out of a, out of a non-working unit.
And, uh, everybody knows it wasn't even him that did that.
And everybody knows that that's something that you would never even get sent to prison for
in the first place.
And it's totally because of Secret Service pressure that he was put in prison, uh, as
a, as a probation violation.
And I can't help but think that they've had a big influence in, in making things even
more difficult.
And, I mean, this, this is an agency I really see out of control.
I mean, nobody is, is, is monitoring this.
And I think we have to come down hard on, on groups like EFF and ACLU because they could
have said something.
They could have, their voices would have made a lot of difference.
It wouldn't have cost them a penny, but we're the only ones standing up for them.
You know, the hackers of the world, uh, people at this radio station.
And, unfortunately, our, our voices don't carry as much clout as the corporate civil rights,
uh, defenders who seem to only want to go for the politically correct cases.
I mean, almost as wishy-washy as Clinton.
So, um, I say come down hard on those people and let them know that you're not happy with them
either. And, hopefully, one day, the people responsible for this will, will pay for their
crimes. Let's hope so. And let's, uh, let's spread the word to as many people as possible
as to what exactly is going on around here. Question what the Secret Service has done in
this case, trying to destroy someone's life, possibly succeeding. And who knows who they'll
come for next.
All right. Thanks, Pam, for the update. And, um, do you have an address?
Uh, the address is the same as the previous address. However, the cell block has changed
to A2B. Um, so it's the same facility.
Same facility. It's, it's a little bit down the street. Uh, but the facility street address
is the same as what you could find on the, by fingering Bernie S at 2600.com. However,
uh, the mail, the cell block is A2B. That was the only change. I, I spoke to a very nice
guard there today who informed me of all of the above.
Okay. Uh, there is one further detail, which I didn't note. Um, Ed will be spending the
next three weeks picking up garbage on the sides of the streets and things. So he will
be out in the community wearing an orange jumpsuit or something like that. Uh, after
that three week time for which he doesn't get paid, he will, uh, be having a real job of
some sort in the community where he goes there during the day and then comes back to prison
at night. Okay. He's pretty enthused about that, even if it's flipping burgers.
Yeah. I mean, at that stage, when you've been in prison for, uh, for over a year, not having
any contact except for occasional weekend visits, uh, from other people. Yeah. Flipping
burgers would seem like, uh, you know, like the best thing in the world. Heaven. Absolutely.
All right. Thanks again for the update. And, uh, there's a chance we'll hear from Bernie tonight.
Uh, probably not though. I have to say, because I think he's, uh, he's got some other activities
that he has to take care of tonight. And, uh, in all likelihood, we'll hear from him next
week. He can tell you the full story. Check the, um, the 2600 website for updates on this
case. Uh, they're not there yet, but they will be soon. And we'll keep you updated on
this and other cases because there's a lot going on. A lot of people are being affected.
The web is widening. The CIA is getting their hands into it now and who knows where it's going
to end. All right. Phone calls 212-279-3400. That's our phone number. Let us know what, uh, what
you've been up to over the past couple of weeks. What's going on? Any questions you
might have on various issues? I spend a lot of time in, um, internet cafes. You know,
that's, that's the new thing over in Europe now. Internet cafes. You can just walk into
a place and log in, which is great. You know how much money I saved on telephone calls because
I didn't have to speak to people. I could just simply log in and check my mail and reply to
people. And it was, it was amazing. It was amazing to be able to do this. This is, is what
the internet is leading us to. A place where we can, uh, uh, communicate without worrying about the
cost. Uh, keep in touch with friends and loved ones and not have to, uh, not have to feel out of
touch about anything. You can, you can read the news. You can, uh, check websites, talk to, talk to
people that, you know, uh, get on IRC, whatever it is you feel like doing. And an increasing number
of cities have this. I think they're better than the ones that, um, are in New York, by the way,
because they have more of an emphasis on the actual use of the, of the net rather than, uh,
than, you know, sitting down at a table and, and having, uh, you know, having food and having a
terminal sitting at your table too. You know, it's kind of, uh, it's kind of more like you sit
there, you have a half hour, your half hour is over. Okay. You're out. Next person's in.
And, you know, if you want to buy more time, then you, you make arrangements to do that.
But it's more an atmosphere of people wanting to know about the net, wanting to, uh, uh, to learn
things and to explore. And that's really what it's all about. So, um, I hope there's more places in
New York that do that kind of thing, uh, at as lower price as possible. So more people can,
can get involved. I saw nothing but positive things in these places. People really, uh, starting to
take control of the technology which surrounds us. People of all walks of life. And that's what it
all boils down to is individuals taking control. Okay. Let's, uh, see if we can take phone calls.
Good evening. You're on the air. Go ahead. Speak. Okay. Hello, Emmanuel. Yes. You got to speak a
little faster than that. Speak a little louder? Uh, no, no louder. No, the volume is fine. It's just
your delay. All right. Don't, uh, wait several seconds because radio time is valuable. Well,
I happen to be calling from a pay phone now. Why does that not surprise me? Well, I discovered
something on, uh, uh, uh, in terms of AT&T's directory link service in which you can be connected
with a long distance number after you get it from long distance directory. An example, from home,
you have AT&T, uh, for long distance. You dial one, a long distance area code, like out of state,
555-1212. Then you get a recording saying AT&T's directory link service can complete your call
for additional 50 cents. So you press one or say yes. Then you get connected with directory.
You ask for the number. Then after you get the number, it immediately connects you and says
we're completing your call. Believe it or not, this works on co-cats and, uh, some cellular
phones and the yellow change card phones. They do not work on 9XO. Okay. I had a little
bit of trouble following you there. You say when this works, uh, they're connecting you for
nothing. Right. In other words, you go to a co-cat, let's say the co-cats connects to AT&T.
Okay. You can either, uh, dial one area code in 555-1212 or on some of them you can dial
1-0-2-8-8-1 area code in 555-1212. Right. At that point, you'll be asked to put in anywhere
between 50 cents to a dollar or however much they charge for directory. Okay. You'll put
it in and then it'll, the co-cat will connect you with the one distance directory. AT&T will
come on and say, AT&T's directory link service can complete its call for an additional 50 cents.
And it doesn't, it doesn't ask you for 50 cents because it thinks you're a residential
phone. Right. Believe it or not, even though the phone is identified as a co-cat line, this
does this. You press one or say yes and then it connects you and it connects you to the
directory, ask for the number and then AT&T's directory link will connect you with the number
and the best part about it is that it's an untimed call. I was about to ask that because
directory assistance isn't considered a timed call. Are you okay? I hear weird noises.
The co-cat thinks that you're still on the phone with delivery. I called California for
about 10 minutes. That's quite an admission there. If anyone wants more information on
this, they could look at my website at www.escape.com. That's E-S-C-A-P-E dot com.
Uh oh. Oops. Are you okay? Yeah, that was my coins going through. They give you three minutes
instead of five, which is really a rip off. Are you sure? Are you sure you want to give
out the rest of your website because, I mean, you just admitted to making a free phone call
and, uh, you might, you might be getting some hits from some, uh, you know, 9x executives
there. If admitted and spreading information, well, let me get, all right, for those of you
already with my website, it's www.escape.com. I'm not, I'm not cutting him off. I don't
know what it is that's happening to you. It's almost as if they don't want you to give
out that address. Let me just, uh, let me see if I need another 10 cents here. Well, I
think I'd like to give out my webpage address. Why don't you just do it then? Okay. It's
www.escape.com. You've said that four times. Excuse me. Please deposit five cents for the
next two minutes or your call will be terminated. Thank you for using 9x. This is a recording.
I'd like to terminate her. Okay. Okay. Now. Okay. Now. Now I'm going to try. It's www.escape.com.
That's E-S-E-E. We know how to spell escape. Okay. Dot com slash tilde. And then.
You're going to get shot now or something. I know it. Oh, well, I've got to tell you
about that. Uh, right. First tilde rebel. R-E-B-E-L. Okay. You got it out. And people
want to email me? Email rebel.estate.com. Okay. Pay phone. Yeah. I should have used a
calling card. Anyway, um, hello? Yes. Are you still here? Okay. I'm still here. Um, about,
um, phones. I was on a, um, phone that electrocuted me because they had, they, they now
If that were true, you wouldn't be able to talk to me now. No, no, no, no, no. This
is a phone somewhere else. You got a shock. You weren't electrocuted. I got a shock. A
little shock because they, people cut the wire and when I cut the wire, it sort of gave me
a shock. And also people remove the coin returns. They also are removing the handset. Now, if
anybody, um, wants to know how to report this, uh, look at the website and it'll call you.
Well, you call 611, obviously not from the phone with no handset, but from, from some
other phone. You call the near telephone's coin repair. It's NYC coin. That's 1-800-698-2646.
And you report it as a VIP. Okay. Well, you're just a bastion of information, uh, tonight.
So, uh, anything, any other discoveries this, uh, this past couple of weeks? Um, not really,
but the main discovery is about those, uh, the cold cards with the, uh, directory link.
It's very surprising that AT&T lets you do this. Uh-huh. Well, I don't know if they, if they
said, let's let people do this, I think it's probably, uh. No, I mean, it works on cold
cards and it shouldn't. Well, it's obviously working on them because they don't know that
their pay phones are not, they're not flagged properly. Right. I mean, they, uh, but it's
identified as a cold card when it has AT&T dial numbers, but they, right. Uh-huh. But when
you, when you do the directory or anything, it should just. You know, actually, I'm glad you're
on the phone because I wanted to ask you something. Yeah. It sort of relates to something
that I've, I've, I've been told here. Uh-huh. Uh, you said at one point that if you, um,
you know those 9X phones that thank you for using 9X? Right. And they don't allow any
additional dialing, too, which we don't like. Right. Uh, at some point, they, they thank
you for, say, using Penn Station. Right. Um. Oh, boy. Excuse me. Please deposit five cents
for the next two minutes, or your call will be terminated. Thank you for using 9X.
Yeah, even I heard the 10 cents that you put in. I don't know why she didn't hear it.
Uh, I didn't have any call. Yeah. Okay, so, you there? Yeah. So, now, there are some phones
where you're able to get it to say, not thank you for using 9X, but thank you for using Penn
Station. Right. Someone told me that they, on East Hampton, they were able to get it to
say thank you for using, for riding the Long Island Railroad. Right. And upstate, they'll
say something like, thank you for using Syracuse Airport. I remember it's cool. No, I went to Penn
Station to try that out, and I couldn't find any of the phones that had the, uh, the new,
the new way of dialing, where they say that. Oh, no. You mean the new, uh, thank you for
using 9X? Yes. Uh-oh. Hello? Yeah. Yeah, I've noticed that 9X has been advertising for
their phones a lot lately. They say, well, control your voicemail, remote control for
your voicemail. How can you control your voicemail when it hangs up on you? Well, that's true.
They're not, they're not thinking. What if it says, uh, what is it, to access your voicemail,
that's a big ad? Yeah, put in a quote, access your voicemail, but look, it hangs up on you
or it doesn't allow you to additional dialing around. Well, you know, the world's full of
injustices like that, but, uh, I don't know. I guess just getting people aware of it is,
is, is the answer. Yeah, that's the thing. I mean, you know. Okay. Well, listen, thanks for
the updates. All right. And, uh, stay out of trouble. Go to the website. Okay. Thanks. You're
reputable. All right. Thank you for, uh, thank you for calling. So, uh, that's, uh, that's
the story. That's the story with, uh, with, with, with Rebel there. 212-279-3400. Good
evening. You're on the air. Hello. Yes. Um, yeah, I have, um, two interesting, um, uh, cellular
phone things, actually. One was, um, from a particular pay phone, and this happened twice,
when, um, the coins were put in, and a local number was dialed. What happened was, you got
the message, um, welcome to ATT wireless services, and the little, uh, series of beeps. Uh-huh. And
it never connected to the number, which was a LAN number. You're dialing from a LAN pay phone
to a LAN number. Right. Do you have any explanation for that? Uh, can't say. Specifically, again,
what happened? They, they, you tried to connect from... From a pay phone to another land, a local
LAN number. And instead of connecting to the LAN number, I got the message, like, you usually get
when you dial with the, um, cell phone. Welcome to ATT wireless services, and the little series of
beeps. Uh-huh. And it didn't connect to the number. And you did this several times? Twice. Twice. Uh, I
would suggest calling them and asking them what, you know, if it's, you know, if your service
is working. Is it a cell phone? It was, um, that was a LAN pay phone to a LAN, another
LAN phone. I'm not sure what your terminology is, a LAN pay phone? You know, a non-cell phone.
A regular pay phone? Yeah. From a regular pay phone to a regular wall phone. A regular what
phone? You know, house phone, wall phone. Okay. What, what kind of an institution are you
in? You're saying wall phones, hall phone, what, what, are you in, like, at some sort
of institution? Uh, no. Okay, well then, what, what, are you calling from a pay phone
to what, at someone's home? Yeah. Okay, then. You know, a phone that plugs into a jack on
the wall. Oh, yeah, okay. It doesn't matter if it's on the wall or on the desk, does it?
Right. Okay, just a regular phone. So, you get, you get some sort of a message. You get
beeps, is that what you're getting? Mm-hmm. Well, the, the standard welcome to ATT wireless
services message, and then that little series of beeps that you always get. Okay, well,
not understanding is, why are you getting wireless services if you're calling from a regular
pay phone? I have no idea. That's the, that's the strange thing. Are you sure you're calling
the right number? Yes. Have you tried this from other phones? No. Okay, try it from other
phones, see if the same thing happens. If the same thing happens, then the problem is
with the number you're calling. You know, because, uh, what, what area code are you calling
to? This is 516 to 516. Hmm. I mean, it sounds like, uh, you reached some weird number.
I don't think it's got anything to do with the pay phone, if it's a normal pay phone.
Regular 9X pay phone? Yes. Okay. Um, it would have to be the destination where you're getting
some, some weirdness. And I, I, I would suspect that either the number got routed wrong or you
don't have the right number, but, um. No, it's definitely the right number. Okay. Sometimes
you call a number and you don't get the number you dial. That does happen. It's happened
to me. The other, the other strange thing was one time, just to see what would happen,
we tried from the same house with two different cell phones to dial the same number. Okay. And
what happened was one of the cell phones rang. You used two cell phones to call? A different
number. A different number. A third number. And one of the cell phones rang. It rang when? When
the other number rang, when the third number rang. Okay. But it wasn't off the hook when you were
dialing. How could it ring if you were dialing something with the cell phone? Well, that's
the weird, that's the weird part about it. I guess one. It can't ring while it's off the
hook. I guess, well, the cell phone is active. Uh-huh. You know? So I guess if one cell phone
was sent, if, if the send button on one cell phone was pushed a little bit before the send
button on the other one. Yeah. The other one can receive a call. Um, and. I don't really
understand why that would be. If, if you, if they're both making outgoing calls to a different
number, uh, they, they're. Yeah. Well, that's what I'm asking you. I don't understand why it
would be either. Uh-huh. I would need to have a few more facts on that one, like specific, uh,
specific numbers. Um, I mean, yeah, it was, what was that target number that you were calling? Was
that by any chance being forwarded someplace? Um, yeah, I don't know. Okay. That's, that's kind of
stuff you need to find out because it's just awfully weird that the phone would ring like
that, but it might have something to do with that. Okay. All right. Okay. Thanks for,
thanks for the call. Take care. 212-279-3400. We're getting some, uh, some pretty strange,
uh, strange, uh, calls tonight. Uh, someone's picking up lines in the other studio. I don't
know why, but, uh, I'm sorry if you called in and got hung up on some bonehead in the other
studios picking up phones. Hopefully that won't happen again. Good evening. You're on the air.
Yeah. Hi, uh, Manuel. Yes, go ahead. Yeah. This is Jay from Long Island. Um, I was wondering
if you knew why it was that, uh, through Queens, they've been, uh, disabling the coin accepting
feature of pay phones. Uh, disabling the coin accepting feature. That's a pretty important
feature of pay phones. It is to me. Uh, okay. So what happens when you put a coin in? What,
what goes on? Okay. Well, you can't put a coin in. Some of them have a little blocking device.
Uh-huh. It comes up when they're full and some of them, you know, they just go straight
through. They have a big sticker on them. What does it say? Out of order? It says the
disc, uh, phone has temporarily been, uh, taken out of coin service. You can only use phone
cards or, um. Right. Well, now, when you say this is happening a lot, then how many have
you noticed? Um, there are like four or five that I use in Queens regularly and they all went
like once. Really? Um, what you can do is you can call 611 and ask for an update on those
phone numbers. They'll tell you what the problem is. Uh, it's possible it could be something
a little bit more ominous in that they're converting the phones to, uh, credit only phones or,
God forbid, yellow phones. Yeah. And if that's the case, obviously you won't be able to put
coins in there anymore. It does seem kind of strange that all those phones are broken.
Yeah. The mechanical devices do break and, um, with the animosity towards 9x, they break a lot
actually. Uh, but they, if you complain about them, they, they should fix them. And if you
say that, uh, you know, you, you want the coin mechanisms there, it's, it really all depends
on how loudly people speak. And that's true of any issue. If you want pay phones to work
with coins, then you say so. Remember that the whole star six, nine thing of about a year
ago where people got angry that you could, uh, return a call from somebody if you wanted
your number blocked. Uh, they turned off that feature. New York, I think was the first
state to do so. And if you block your number now, you can't have your call returned. It's
because of public outcry. So if you want coin phones in your neighborhood and you don't want
them to take off the touch tone pads in the war against drugs and, and, and nonsense like
that, uh, speak up because obviously other people with bigger mouths are speaking up and
they're getting their way. It's time for, it's time for us to use our mouths a little bit
too. Okay. Uh, also, do you know how it is that you could find out the telephone number
of a pay phone that doesn't have a telephone number written on it? Yeah, it's very easy
actually. Um, let's call AT&T 1-800-222-0300. And, uh, at some point I think you might have
to hit one touch tone or something like that. Uh, it'll say, I see you're calling from, and
it'll give your phone number. Oh, is the 800 number? Yeah, that's the 800 number. 800-222-0300.
Um, I mean, that's, that's what they do. It's, it's not a secret that they do that. Oh, I didn't
think it was a secret just being kept from me if it was. Yeah. It's, it's, well, it's
not like that A&I number that, that, uh, you know, everybody was giving out because, uh,
they weren't too thrilled about everybody calling them to find out what their phone
number is. But AT&T, you know, make it a little easy on AT&T. Call them to ask them
something too. You know, they'll just hang up and you find out your phone number. Call
them, you know, say, Hey, you know, what's up with, what's, what's new features you guys
are offering? You know, make them feel like they're wanted. Okay. Well, thanks a lot.
All right. Bye. Take care. Uh, mind you don't make them feel like they're too
wanted, but, uh, but, uh, you know, enough. Good evening. You're on the air.
All right. What about 958? You sure started fast. You were talking before I even picked
up the phone. What's that? You were already into your question before I even picked up
the phone. Um, what was your question? Uh, well, if you dial 958, it'll tell you what
your number is from the payphone. You know that, right? Uh, yeah. Well, what's really odd is
somebody walked in with a piece of paper that said exactly what you said right before you
said it. I mean, what's going on here? Very interesting. I know I'm psychic. Um, I wanted
to, uh, tell people that there's always very interesting CIA information in a magazine called
covert action. Very excellent magazine tells you all about the CIA. And, um, this month,
uh, America's defense monitors says, starts out pretty much by saying America needs an enemy
will take any enemy will do. And that's pretty much why they've created this whole, uh, war on
cyberspace because, you know, we, we, the cold war is over. We need to take all that
money and put it somewhere. So not only is this plan in the United States, as you were
saying that, gee, now he's, they're focusing on America. Right. Well, in fact, they have
the average is to be, uh, 1.1 billion dollars for 27 different locations in, uh, European
and, um, Asian countries that, that they're going to have, uh, some sort of a, uh, monitoring,
uh, station for this cyber war. Uh-huh. So it's about $28 billion, which interestingly
enough is the amount of money for the Trident missile program, which would have to be canceled
if this new, uh, pact is put through that says that we can't use nuclear anymore. Uh-huh.
Interesting coincidence. How would, how would you, uh, fight something like this? I'm sorry?
How would you fight this, this targeting of, of hackers by all these agencies? How would you fight it?
Yeah. How would you fight it? Uh, let's see. I fight lots of things with letters and, and,
um, and write lots of letters. In fact, um, I was asking about Bernie S and doing a massive
letter campaign from Amnesty and they weren't kind of into it at the time, but now that they've
put out a local report in the United States, I finally joined them in order to go, to do it
from the inside. So I'm, I'm going to ask them again. Uh-huh. They have something called an
urgent action campaign where there are almost 10,000 subscribers that avail themselves to
writing letters. Uh-huh. So I'm going to see if I can, uh, get them to do it. As far as attacking
the CIA, that's one to think about. I, I think it would involve, uh, more writing to the White
House to, to say something about John Deutsch. Well, I think, I think, you know, average Americans
need to know that having the CIA looking over the shoulders of us, of people in this country
is a very bad idea and there's a reason why their charter prohibits them from doing that.
To, to make an exception because of some supposed threat from, from teenage computer hackers is
utterly stupid. Yeah. And I think, you know, most people would realize that. Thing is, though,
you've got to get through to those people and get them to do something about it because
they're the ones with the real power. Yeah. I think you also have to take, take the, uh,
faith, uh, away from John Deutsch. Take people, people put a lot of, uh, faith into an authority
figure. And I think, you know, recently he's being asked about the Gulf War Syndrome. I know
I'm mixing a lot of issues here, but, you know, if you can prove that he knew all along that
there were chemical and bioweapons there, then, you know, that would undermine him and
perhaps, uh, would take him out of that position where he, he will no longer be able to run
this cyber war. You know, maybe we would get somebody in there that's got a computer
himself. Right. And by all means, you know, I think it's very important to educate and
be very vocal to those groups of people, those organizations that supposedly represent us
and our rights. And if they're slacking off and not representing us, we let them know that
we're not doing that. We're not speaking up enough and, and insisting that they, they
stand up for us. And that's why things like this are happening. That's why you're seeing,
uh, things like Communications Decency Act and, uh, and Clipper chip and the Bernie S syndrome
and all kinds of, uh, future things that will be happening. It's because, you know, those
people that can make a difference aren't doing their job. I, I, I think we have to do sort
of like silent leafleting. I think people that know have to just independently assume the
expense of $5 at a copy shop and print a thousand leaflets and just kind of silently place them
around town. Uh, I've, I've done that before for pesticides and, you know, a lot of people
kind of woke up, but you know, well, that, that was a few years ago. Now it's gone to
the next stage. And using, using the net as well to, to put those, those leaflets, you
know, like get, get the word out, you know, over, over, over that method. Right. All
right. Thanks for the call. Okay. Thank you. Take care. We have time for about one more
call, I think. Good evening. You're on the air. Hello. How are you doing? Pretty good.
How are you? Okay. You caught me by surprise. Two things real quick. One is while you were
in Europe, did you see teletext on television? Yes. You know, that is amazing. They have that,
they have that everywhere. You know, would you like to describe it and well, okay. Now
CNN, for instance, if you're watching CNN, they, they advertise this over there and it's
like, you know, it's like they're talking to a whole different species of humans. They
basically, they say, if you want information on this particular story, just punch in CNN
text page 305. Everybody knows exactly how to do it and everybody can do it on their TV
sets. I don't know why we don't have something like that here. Every channel,
has its own. I'm sorry. And, and they have it in Germany and a friend who has a satellite
dish in England. I played with it all night, one night and I got Holland and it's in Dutch
and English and it's just, it's wonderful. It's incredible. It's a, it's a, it's an information
source and everybody has access to it. And, you know, here we have, we have the buttons
and all that on our, on our VCRs and TVs. I've got like a caption setting, but all it gives
me is a big black rectangle on the screen. That doesn't really convey a lot of information.
Three years ago, when I went to England, I came back and I told my friends, one thing
people have is our small satellite dishes. And people said, what are you talking about?
I said, they're tiny little dishes. And now we have that, but we don't, we still don't
have the text. The other thing is just as an aside about the CIA, why is it okay for the
CIA to do what it does in other countries? But you're saying it's not okay for them to do
it here. So you know what I mean?
Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I'm not saying that it is okay, but that's a, that's
a whole other issue. I'm saying, you know, it's a, let's, let's focus on this. What's,
what they're proposing right now is, is wrong for many reasons. Yeah, we can attack the very
basis of the CIA, but let's, let's just for the moment say that the CIA is, is a, is an
unfortunate fact of life. We don't want that unfortunate fact of life turning its huge eyes
to us now. And, uh, considering us to be the enemy to ourselves because, you know, we
are the people that supposedly, you know, if you buy the whole argument about why the
CIA exists, we're the people that are supposed to be protecting and, uh, turning their attention
on us means that they've gotten incredibly too, uh, I guess, self-aware is the word.
What was that AT&T number, by the way, again, was it 800? What was the one for the A&I?
Uh, well, it's not really a number for the A&I, just as a number that gives it out as a
matter of course, 800-222-0300. It's the regular billing number is how you find out about your
bill. Okay. So if you ever want to find out, yes, if you want to find out a number at a
pay phone, you simply call them and ask about your bill and that's how, that's how you'll
get your number. Thanks a lot. All right. Thanks for calling. We are out of time and, uh, a lot
of stories I didn't tell of things that happened. I have a few adventures that I'll get into in
the weeks ahead, but, uh, we are out of time. We will be hearing from Bernie S next week
and we'll be, uh, focusing on some other things of international, uh, uh, importance
that are occurring, uh, throughout the hacker world, throughout the technological world and
things that affect just about everybody. Until then, this is Emmanuel Goldstein. Thank you
everybody for listening and for calling in. We'll see you again next week. Good night.
The telephone keeps ringing. So I ripped it off the wall. I cut myself while shaving. Now
I can't make the cost. It couldn't get much worse. But if there could, there would.
Oh, they live on for the best expect of birth. I hope that's understood. Oh, they live on.
Oh, they live on for the best expect of birth. They live on for the best expect of birth. They live on for the
Thank you.
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