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WBAI New York, it's time now for Off the Hook.
The telephone keeps ringing
So I ripped it off the wall
I cut myself while shaving
Now I can't make a call
It couldn't get much worse
But if they could, they would
Bumbiddley Bump was the best, expect the worst
I hope that's understood
Bumbiddley Bump!
The Army
Bumbiddley Bump!
Bumbiddley Bump, yap
And a good evening to everybody.
The program is off the hook.
This is Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on the last program of the year 1998.
That's right.
Next week it'll be the last week before the year 2000 or whatever you want to call it.
Armageddon.
The end of the world as we know it.
And what fun it's going to be.
We have assembled with us a group of experts, historians, if you will, who will be looking
over the most historical moments of this past year.
We have Isaac over there from Queens.
Howdy, hello.
We have Porkchop who flew in from New Jersey.
Greetings, world.
And we have Bernie S. out there in Philadelphia.
Good evening.
And, of course, we'll be taking your phone calls as well.
A little later on, though, so just hang out a bit.
Well, then.
I'm going to go around the room, around the microphones here.
Let's start with Bernie down in Philadelphia.
What do you think the most memorable event of 1998 was?
As far as computer hackers, technology, Big Brother, things like that.
Well, it's hard to pick one, Emmanuel.
There have been a lot of things going on.
And I guess I have to figure out what I'm most outraged about, maybe.
But a lot of things have gone on, all of which you probably talked about this year.
But we have to sum these up.
So, I guess I can't keep, I can't stop forgetting about Kevin Mitnick being locked up every day.
Because I can relate to what he's going through very well.
1998 was the year Kevin Mitnick celebrated his 35th birthday in prison.
And I spent almost four years locked up without a trial.
That's right.
It also was the year that the Free Kevin movement really started in earnest.
Bumper stickers started showing up every place.
Demonstrations.
But, of course, that was prompted by the announcement of a film being made.
Which I believe was back in June.
They made that announcement that Takedown, the movie, would be made based on the book Takedown.
And it would star Skeet Ulrich, amongst many others.
And that launched a demonstration outside Miramax in July.
And also prompted a bunch of us to go out and make a film of our own.
Or, it's a shooter film, anyway.
We haven't finished making it yet.
But we will.
And then, of course, you also had a whole lot of websites get hacked with Free Kevin messages.
Including the New York Times.
And what a lot of reaction that got.
At the New York Times, of course, the newspaper where John Markoff wrote his stories about Kevin Mitnick many years ago.
That sort of propelled him, literally, into a page one fugitive.
And that made him get caught all the quicker and sentenced.
Not even sentenced yet.
But just imprisoned all the, I guess, all the stronger or whatever word you want to use.
And made a lot of money for John Markoff.
It certainly did.
It certainly did.
And Satomo Shimomura, the two authors of the book Takedown.
Which they agreed to write less than a week after the stories in the New York Times appeared.
So, you know, a few people had problems with that.
You know, with the journalistic integrity of the New York Times there.
Because John Markoff had also been there for the arrest of Kevin Mitnick.
The capture and arrest of Kevin Mitnick.
A lot of people said there was a conflict of interest there.
He took part in the story.
He wrote about the story.
He profited from the story.
Made a book and a movie.
You know, that's how journalism works in this country, apparently.
It's rather sad.
So, yeah, all that came to light this year.
That's probably the most dramatic, I would say.
Isaac, what about you?
My most memorable moment of 1990.
Well, it doesn't have to be the most memorable moment, but just one of the memorable moments.
A high point of 1998.
I know you've had lots of memorable moments this year.
We all have.
Can I take two?
Go ahead.
Really quick.
Okay.
The first was the declaration of war against Microsoft.
Where the DOJ started filing all their action suits against a poor little company up in Washington.
Poor Bill Gates.
I feel very sorry for Bill.
Yeah, I really do as well.
And the barrage that NT has taken from free open source software like Linux, where all of a sudden a lot of these people are realizing,
hey, we really don't have to train people for $20,000 to take that NT BS course, whatever it is.
Those fat cat Linux people are out to get Bill Gates.
Yeah.
Oh, sure.
It's a freebie.
People are waking up to the fact that Microsoft just puts out a bad product.
Well, that's Microsoft.
There's a lot of things going on there.
The other one I'd probably point out is Y2K, where people are...
Y2K is in two years.
That didn't happen this year.
Well, it's going to happen in two years, but 1998 has really been one of the high points of people becoming aware of the fact.
Whether it's for the better, I really couldn't tell you.
But people are starting to wake up to what a lot of engineers have known for some time.
Well, people are also starting to panic a bit.
Well, people are definitely starting to panic a bit.
There's a lot of repercussions.
And other people are waking up to that.
To the panic?
The fact that people are about to panic is like a planned riot.
You know, everyone's going to start freaking out in about a year.
There's theories about that as well, if it was planned or not.
It should be really interesting, though.
It should be really interesting to see future archivists who are listening to this radio show on the website,
if, in fact, there is a website in a year.
Just notice the increasing intensity of our pleas to remain calm as the year goes by and how things just sort of fell apart in the end.
Are you putting the off-the-hook CDs in a time capsule somewhere, Emanuel?
Well, we're going to shoot them up with a satellite and keep them up there 22,300 miles up above the equator.
And hopefully nobody will mess with them this time.
Well, we could send them off into deep space, like the record on the Galileo probe,
so that off-the-hook would be the first contact intelligent life would have with the planet Earth.
Waiting list to get into deep space, though, is rather long right now.
It's also the year the FCC actually started charging for 800 numbers.
That's one of my most bitter memories.
35 cents for every call to an 800 number.
It gets billed to the person who owns the 800 number, so therefore that person bills it back in some way.
Or the payphone.
Yeah, from a payphone.
It still doesn't make any sense.
I still have a lot of trouble explaining it to people.
But that's why there's a new surcharge when you use calling cards,
because the FCC did something really stupid, I think.
Porkchop, how about you?
Well, one interesting thing is webpages are getting hacked in record numbers now.
It's really become the thing to do.
It's a new American pastime.
Yeah.
There were, I saw yesterday alone, there were three hacks that I saw of just people sending mail saying,
hey, look, this has been hacked, this has been hacked.
Well, the reason for that, people are trying to boost the yearly average.
They only have a few days left, so they have to cram in as many as they can to make this the banner year for hacking websites.
Exactly.
It's like Giuliani boasting how we've had fewer murders this year since, what, 1950 or something like that?
I know, you know, come on, use your brain here.
You don't boast about it until after it's over.
Can you think of some, you know, maniac Democrat out there who just wants to make Giuliani look bad?
Well, it's to prove them all wrong.
And mows down, like, you know, a hundred people.
There goes the average right there, you know?
And those Democrats will do it, too.
I watch TV, I know.
How many?
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm not really worried about the Democrats, more the Republicans.
Well, let's not get political here.
Huh.
Have to avoid controversy like that.
What else?
We saw a high school student get expelled for writing an article on hacking.
Remember that?
I remember that.
That was interesting.
Yeah.
And ADSL is coming.
ADSL started to make its moves into the tri-state area.
Bernie, I think you have ADSL down there, don't you?
Well, we have it in the outskirts of Philadelphia.
I called Bell Atlantic a couple weeks ago about this.
And they have it in many suburbs all around Philadelphia, but not in the city itself.
I said, well, why don't you put it where all the people are?
That's great.
You might sell more that way.
And they said, oh, they haven't gotten around to that yet.
That is Bell Atlantic logic.
We lost 9X, of course.
I believe we lost 9X last year, late last year.
But this was the first year that Bell Atlantic really sort of took hold in the tri-state area.
Well, New Jersey always had them, but New York, Connecticut, places like that.
Also, it was the year of strikes.
That's right.
Bell Atlantic went on strike.
SNET went on strike.
U.S. West went on strike.
That was interesting.
A bit of some lever issues there.
Also, speaking of U.S. West, it was the year U.S. West computers set out to find a new prime number.
Did they succeed?
I don't know.
No, I think they caught the guy before they actually found a new prime number.
Just to clarify, it was not an authorized U.S. West operation.
It was one of their employees decided to use all their computers and try to find a new prime number with their massive computing power.
However, that wound up slowing down the time that the operators would answer phone calls, information operators, I believe, to something like a minute and a half or two and a half minutes.
People didn't really notice, though, because it takes a while sometimes to get an operator, since there's only like three now that work there.
Automation.
Automation's been taking over.
It's been a year of increasing layoffs, consolidations, corporate mergers.
Who can name the largest corporate merger this year?
Well, I'd probably take a step with AOL and Netscape.
AOL taking over Netscape.
Bernie, you have any suggestions?
One of the telcos, but the name escapes me.
The names escape me.
Bell South?
That might have been it.
Uh-huh.
I believe Bell South wants to take over GTE.
It's getting harder and harder to keep track of these.
I think that was it.
I think that was, yeah, it's really ridiculous.
It's all going to wind up being run by the same people.
Well, radio, this has been an incredible year for radio.
Bernie, maybe you can show us some of the things that happened this year.
The FCC is running amok, trying to squelch the free radio movement.
In fact, just over the past few weeks, the FCC has gotten off their four-and-a-half-year hiatus
of not going after shortwave radio pirates or free shortwave stations in the United States.
And just over the past three months or so, they've busted about a half dozen, basically
taken down, seized the radio equipment.
Now, these are shortwave radio stations that are operating on a frequency that is not assigned
to any other service.
In other words, they're definitely not interfering with any other radio station.
Like, the most popular pirate shortwave frequency is 69, 55 kilohertz on your shortwave dial.
And some good stations out there, and several of them have been taken off the air this year.
But that pales in comparison to all the FM broadcast band pirates or free radio stations.
There have been a lot of them.
Radio Mutiny in Philadelphia.
Yeah, a station very near and dear to my heart.
Steelness Radio in New York.
Like, Free Radio Berkley.
Free Radio Berkley.
Which, incidentally, very recently, a new station has popped up in Berkley called Tree Radio Berkley.
It's broadcast from a tree.
And it's called Tree Radio Berkley because the person who started Free Radio Berkley was
warned that if any radio station started up under the same name, Free Radio Berkley, that
he would be prosecuted, even if he had nothing to do with it.
So, some other...
How is that kind of logic legal?
I mean, I could go out there now, start a radio station called Free Radio Berkley, and
Steve Dunifer will get charged with it.
I mean, that doesn't make any sense.
Well, a lot of these things don't make any sense, Emanuel.
But anyhow, now there's a Tree Radio Berkley.
Not to be confused with Free Radio Berkley, even though it sounds very much the same.
Broadcasting from a tree in Berkley.
The lengths that people will go to express free speech in various mediums is...
Well, you see, that's a good point.
But I have a slight problem with this because I've noticed that there's a trend here where
a lot of these stations pop up and they broadcast for a time.
They become quite popular.
And then the FCC says something, warns them, visits, and they disappear and they don't come
back.
Now, the only way you can really win a struggle like this is by constantly putting the pressure
on, constantly challenging them.
And if they have to grab your equipment, then you have to get more equipment.
You have to appeal to people and find more equipment somehow.
They may arrest people.
Okay, if you believe in something, you should believe in it enough to get arrested for it.
That's just my opinion.
If you're not in this for the long haul, it's not just a fad.
It's not just a weekend hobby or something like that.
There's a very important statement to be made here.
The airwaves have been taken over by a very small amount of people.
There are companies now that own close to 500 radio stations.
It's almost unbelievable when you think of the power these people have now.
We can thank the Telecommunications Act of 1996 for that.
That's right.
And we can thank that for quite a few things.
But that's definitely one of the most, I guess, insidious things that hurts everybody.
Because, you know, you have one voice.
One voice.
Think of it.
Saying all these things on all these different radio stations, but it's one voice only.
You have to challenge that.
You have to challenge it and have diversity.
And if that means standing up to authority figures, you stand up to them.
If they warn you, you know, you do what you have to do to keep that voice coming out.
You're speaking for lots and lots of people.
And that's, you know, the only thing I'm saying here is that I just think people need to stand up a bit longer.
And more people need to be standing up a bit longer.
Support these stations.
Make sure that the current policies, you know, are challenged.
They have to be.
If they're not, what kind of a society are we going to have in five years?
Well, the FCC is gathering a huge amount of seized equipment in its Washington, D.C. headquarters.
Not just Radio Mutiny's entire station.
But literally dozens of other stations were seized this year.
This is the kind of stuff you hear about in third world countries where the government seizes radio stations
that are broadcasting things they don't happen to agree with.
And it's happening here now.
And it's something that I'm hoping just by sheer numbers, the number of free radio stations that pop up,
the FCC will not be able to keep up with them.
And just to clear the air on something, this has got nothing to do with interfering with existing radio stations.
That is always what you hear them talking about.
Oh, they were causing a hazard to aviation even.
Or they were interfering with a 50,000-watt radio station.
And in the vast majority of cases, something like 90% plus,
these stations operate on frequencies far away from anything else local,
and they certainly don't interfere with airplanes.
There are 20-watt stations that broadcast to a few blocks in a major city, perhaps.
There are no threat technically.
Maybe they're a threat politically.
That's possible.
But let's at least address this thing for what it is.
Many times commercial broadcast stations will complain when they hear a free radio station on the air.
It's a sour grapes kind of thing, because they realize that if one listener is listening to this free radio station,
then it's not listening to their radio station, and therefore not hearing their commercials,
and therefore they can't charge as much for broadcasting those commercials,
and therefore it's a commercial threat.
Now, I don't think it's a big commercial threat,
but the commercial radio stations don't want any kind of pressing to get started.
So they will oftentimes file false complaints against a station,
saying that a free radio station is interfering with their signal,
and oftentimes it's not.
But the FCC then has a good excuse to legally go after the free radio station.
Well, it's all about greed.
It's all about how much money you can possibly make by forcing people,
literally forcing people to just listen to your words.
And, you know, in many ways, that's something else we've seen media-wise,
you know, as far as news is reported.
It's not as obvious, because you think you're getting diversity.
You think there's diversity between ABC, CBS, and NBC, and, you know, Fox, and UPN,
and all those crazy people.
There's really no diversity.
There's really nothing different being said.
If you want something different to be said,
listen to something like BAI, listen to something like micro-broadcasting.
Or shortwave.
Or shortwave.
Well, people don't listen to shortwave, because it's too much of a bother.
Oh, you can get a reasonable shortwave receiver for $50.
That's true.
At Radio Shack, and you can pick up numerous stations all over the world,
in English, broadcasting news and views that are actually different
than what you're going to pick up in American media.
But, Bernie, how many of them have Dolby Surround Sound?
Not many.
Well, we demand that in America, you see.
Ah, you're right.
That's the problem.
That's the problem.
We, you know, we have to be catered.
Every whim has to be catered to.
So, yeah, it's an urgent problem.
I think probably the biggest problem facing us in the years ahead
is control of the media.
And the airwaves are public airwaves.
They belong to the people.
That's something that we seem to have forgotten.
And something we're on the verge of losing on the Internet,
the Internet, of course, being the last bastion of free speech that there is,
whatever you can't hear on the airwaves,
you can probably find if you look for it on the net.
And, of course, there are people who want to stop that as well.
So that's something else we have to defend.
Even at your public library, they're trying to stop it.
Everywhere.
Public library, schools, Internet service providers.
You know, at every level it's being fought.
Speaking of which, this was the year Timothy McVeigh,
the other Timothy McVeigh, got kicked out of the Navy for being gay on AOL.
Remember that?
Yes.
And whatever happened to that case?
Was that a settlement of court?
I believe he got a nice settlement from the Navy because they acted improperly by...
And from AOL, I would hope.
Well, I believe so.
AOL, of course, gave out his information to a Navy undercover agent.
And they confirmed that this person who was...
Illegally, you might ask.
Of course.
Totally illegally.
He was openly gay on AOL, but not openly gay in the Navy,
but they linked him to the AOL account, so then they said,
okay, you're gay, you're out.
And, of course, that caused even more controversy than his name.
Don't ask, don't tell.
Isn't that how it's supposed to work?
Yeah, yeah.
Don't ask, don't tell.
But there's a lot of probing going on anyway.
In more ways than one.
It's about as useless as any other Clinton policy, if you ask me.
Don't ask, don't tell.
I mean, it just doesn't work.
Anyway, as far as other net things,
remember the Ontario real estate online services?
Oreos.
Oreos.com.
He never got back to me.
Yeah, I don't know what happened to him, but he still has the site.
This is the guy who registered Oreos.com,
and the Oreos cookie people got really upset at him
and sent him all kinds of threatening mail.
How big a threat can something coming from Oreos be?
R.J.R. Nabisco?
I guess if they put that letterhead on, yeah.
Well, R.J.R. Nabisco is the manufacturer of Oreos.
I mean, these people are also the ones that kill millions of Americans
by handing out cigarettes.
R.J.R. Nabisco hands out cigarettes?
How could they do such a thing?
Well, I don't know.
They're either going to hook you on nicotine
or they're going to hook you on sugar.
What cigarettes does Nabisco make?
Not Nabisco, but...
Oh, man.
I forget the actual brand name of the cigarettes.
You're trying to tell me...
Isn't Marlboro an R.J.R. brand?
Marlboro is an R.J.R. brand.
You're trying to tell me that Nabisco...
Nabisco is actually owned by a tobacco company.
Yes.
I'm shocked.
You can tell by the ashen look on my face
that I am totally shocked by this revelation here.
So this keeps going.
These huge companies own everything.
Oh, yeah.
Media.
Cookies.
Oh, it's scary.
It really is.
Speaking of scary, how about this?
The Pentagon got hacked.
The Pentagon got hacked in the worst attack
that they've seen to this date.
And it was a bunch of 14-year-olds from California.
Two of them, actually.
And one mysterious Israeli named the Analyzer,
who Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said was very good.
But dangerous, he added lately.
No, he said damn good.
Did he say damn good?
Damn good, yeah.
I wasn't sure if he said that.
Okay, damn good, but dangerous.
But not the kind of thing that someone would say
about a hacker in this country.
True.
They'd throw them in prison.
I don't know what the Analyzer's doing now.
I think he's serving in the military.
He's probably analyzing certain cryptographic transmissions
within the Israeli military.
Well, the interesting thing was,
when that press release came out,
or press conference about the Pentagon being hacked,
the day after, was it the day after,
Janet Reno announced all this new funding
to battle just that?
Oh, yes, the consolidation of the Pentagon
information protection infrastructure,
something or other.
Yeah, well, you know, it's a reaction kind of thing.
I just find it interesting that a couple of teenagers
from this country managed to wreak so much havoc.
Imagine what skillful nationals of some foreign power could do.
Oh, very well-funded.
Yeah, well-funded people.
Imagine what they could do.
It's funny how they never seem to do it.
Well, they're still trying to develop
their biological and chemical weapons.
Yeah.
And getting their nukes from the former Soviet Union.
But that's another story.
Yeah, it is another story.
Definitely.
So, the Pentagon hackers were sentenced
to probation, I believe,
and they had to stay away from computers for a while.
And that was it.
They didn't go to prison, fortunately.
That would have been a bit much, I think, just for...
Well, it's already happened
for somebody who did far less.
Oh, of course.
He's been there for a while.
Yes, that's true.
But these are 14, 15-year-olds, you know.
True.
I think we haven't quite reached the stage yet
where somebody...
What was that beep?
Sounds like a phone.
Bernie, is that you?
Not me.
That's awfully strange.
Should I start running or...
Where's it coming?
It's coming on your line, Bernie.
You're the only line on the phone.
I've never heard a sound like this
on my Sprint PCS phone before.
No, actually, that's coming from a...
That's in the room itself.
That's not on the radio equipment itself.
Yeah.
Say hi.
There, I just hung it up.
Why is...
I still don't know why there's a phone there.
It doesn't make any sense.
Oh, now it's ringing again.
You know what?
I'm going to unplug you.
Try ringing now.
Now it's just a wire.
Okay, that's enough of that.
You touched on the subject of encryption.
And the Clinton administration
is still doing its level best
to try to restrict the use of encryption
around the world.
Earlier this month,
the Wassenaar arrangement
was signed by 33 countries
after much arm-twisting
by the United States government,
which basically outlaws
the export of
any really secure encryption software.
classifies it as ammunition,
like a bazooka
or a chemical weapon or something.
So I think the FBI's next target
is to
restrict the use of
secure encryption domestically.
They haven't stated that
that's their intent,
but if you look the way
the wind is blowing,
that's the next battle.
So I encourage everyone listening
to contact their legislators,
their senators,
Congress people,
and urge them to support
privacy,
private communications
amongst their constituents
by not passing it
or voting against any legislation
that would restrict the use
of any encryption
by U.S. citizens.
This was also the year
of WIPO,
the World Intellectual Property
Organization.
And it was passed,
but so far
I haven't seen
any real effect on people.
You see,
that's another thing
that sort of ties
into the whole
micro-broadcasting thing
where people
see something evil happen
and right away
they submit to it.
They say,
oh, that means
we can't play around
with software anymore.
We can't try
and crack something.
You know,
it's illegal now.
Well,
if you think it's wrong,
then you challenge it.
You don't submit to it.
You know,
that's why I didn't really
take the WIPO stuff
all that seriously
because it was so ridiculous
I didn't see
how it could possibly
ever be enforced.
Well,
it's something on the books
to like bring up
against somebody later on.
Sure,
it's not about
whether they want
to enforce it.
It's having something
that can be selectively enforced
against anyone
they want to
in the future.
Very correct.
But, I mean,
how are they going to do this?
You've got to think about it.
How are they actually going
to prosecute
something like this?
It's almost impossible.
You have to go
into someone's mind.
You have to
see what they're doing
in their homes
and figure it out that way.
It's just,
I don't know.
I think it also goes against
what most people believe in
as far as
what people have
the right to do.
What if your home
is searched
with justifiably
good intent
by a law enforcement officer
and they search
through your hard drive
and find a piece
of software
that's been cracked
that you don't have
a license for.
Then,
even though they may
have had
a questionable
probable cause
once they've found
something,
then they'll
make up
some kind of
probable cause
as to why they
believe you had
that on your computer.
And then you can
go away
for quite a long time.
It sounds far-fetched.
It does sound far-fetched,
but yes,
I know,
and you're living proof
that that kind of thing
can happen.
You issue a warrant
for the hard drive
and anything that
might just happen
to be on it.
Hey,
the New Republic article,
remember that?
That happened
earlier this year.
The article that said
that there was
this fictitious,
well,
they didn't call him
a fictitious hacker
at the time,
this hacker that was
intimidating all these
huge companies
and getting money
out of them
to not hack their systems
and buying,
buying expensive cars
and having the
hacker Congress
back him up.
Was this that 12-year-old?
No,
I think it was 15.
I think it was 15.
But it turned out
it showed up
in the New Republic
and it turned out
that the entire story
was just made up.
That's after they
printed it as fact.
I wonder what
happened to that author.
Well,
I think he got fired.
Well,
I hope he did.
He no longer works there,
but I think he's still
living in the free world
and who knows?
He might be lying
to somebody else right now.
But the New Republic,
you know,
they said,
yeah,
the guy is a liar,
but they never really
apologized to the hackers
for the things
that they said
about that community.
Well,
we're an easy target.
We don't really
stand up for ourselves.
We tend to stay
in the background
and just kind of
dodge whatever bullets
are there.
Well,
speaking of dodging bullets,
I don't know if you heard
this story as far as
sorry,
what?
Don't get off that subject.
Speaking of reliability
of news and media,
wasn't this the year
that CNN
was sued or something?
I forget the topic
of the story.
It had something
to do with the military.
Yeah,
CNN and Time
put out a report
saying that there were
massacres at,
U.S. troops
engaged in massacres
in Southeast Asia.
That's right.
And was it
Wolf Blitzer
or I could be wrong
or Peter Arnett,
one of those two reporters
that said basically,
don't go by me.
I'm just reading this.
You know?
So,
I guess it's okay.
Don't take anything
that they say
on these broadcast
news channels
as being accurate
because he's just
reading that.
He didn't do
the actual reporting.
You know,
he's just reading it.
So,
therefore,
he's not responsible
for its accuracy.
Right.
I can't believe
people would cop out
like that.
I was just following orders.
I'm sorry.
What did you say?
I was just following orders.
Yes.
Well,
now,
speaking of
dodging bullets,
though,
I'm sure a lot of us
saw this story.
This raises a number
of issues with me.
I got this off
the Wired website,
which I visit
occasionally for laughs.
And,
the headline
is the first thing
that got me.
Chinese hackers
get death.
Now,
first of all,
you know Wired
is extremely
anal retentive
about the word
hacker and cracker.
They love this word,
this fake word,
cracker,
and they try to
basically malign
a whole group of people
by calling them
all crackers.
you know,
the evil ones,
the bad ones,
the bad apples,
the crackers.
Now,
these guys,
they stole money
out of a bank,
but for some reason,
Wired decides to call them
hackers.
Because I guess it's more
dramatic to say
Chinese hackers get death.
You know,
and saying Chinese crackers
get death,
people say,
what does that mean?
You know,
and they don't realize
that people say that.
They're going wild.
Yeah.
It goes back to our
previous Nabisco point
with the,
never mind,
bedpunch.
Anyway,
two hackers who broke
into a bank computer
network and stole
260,000 yuan.
How do you say that?
Y-U-A-N.
I'm not sure exactly
how to pronounce it,
but it amounts
to 31,400 U.S. dollars.
They were sentenced
to death
by a court
in eastern China.
And what they did
was they opened
16 accounts
into various names
in the branch
of the bank
in September,
later broke into
the branch
to install
a controlling device
in a bank
computer terminal.
They used the device
to electronically
wire money
into non-existent accounts,
non-existent deposits
into the bank accounts,
and afterwards
they successfully
withdrew money
from eight different
branches of the bank.
And all the money
has been returned,
so they didn't
actually lose anything,
but they're still
sentencing them
to death
just to teach them
a lesson.
And of course,
no, they certainly won't.
It's not a good thing.
It's not a good thing.
And I don't want
to quibble over
the use of the word
hacker there,
because that's something
that's just plain wrong
to sentence somebody
to death
or something like that.
But, you know,
it's not too far
from where we're
heading right now.
I'm not saying
hackers are going
to be sentenced
to death anytime soon,
but we're the only
industrialized country
that's increasing
the use of the
death penalty
and it's really,
really taking off
like a rocket.
Against kids, too.
Against anybody, really.
And not just for murder.
You know,
the Clinton's Crime Bill
of 1994
has all kinds
of federal crimes
that, you know,
that you could
be sentenced
to death for,
including drug-related
things,
kidnapping,
I think even carjacking
is in there somewhere
in the special circumstances.
But, you know,
it's scary
when you move
in that direction.
So you've got to be
careful there.
Okay,
212-209-2900
is our phone number.
We're talking about
the highlights
of 1998.
Anybody else have
anything they want
to add
before we
take some phone calls?
Why do you keep
playing with my mic?
On the software
side of things,
at DEF CON this year
was the release
of Back Orifice
from the fine people
over at CDC,
which I suppose
would go back
to my war
on Microsoft point.
But interesting
little package
that had a bunch
of people
raising eyebrows
except for Microsoft,
which disavowed
any knowledge
of its existence
or its threat capability.
True.
Okay,
now,
212-209-2900
is our
telephone number.
And let's
put all these
phones that are
broken.
Wow.
Let's take this
one over here.
Good evening,
you're on the air.
Yeah,
hello.
My big thing
is with this
MP3 thing,
man,
these record
companies want
to pimp
these artists,
man,
and any way
these artists
want to be
independent,
man,
these record
companies want
to pull back
and say,
oh no,
we can't let
these artists
get away with that.
So they try
to come up
with a new
format called
MP4.
And that's
one of the
biggest things
that really
get on my
nerves right now.
Really?
So describe
for us the
problem that
artists are
having right now
with MP3s.
Yeah,
for example,
Public Enemy
Rap Group,
this guy put
on his MP3
file,
his record
company put
him to take
it off.
And he was
talking about
how the record
companies is
one of the
pimp these artists.
You know,
I mean,
I listen to MP3,
I think it's
real nice,
though.
I mean,
the artists,
for example,
Prince,
Prince,
he's independent.
He don't have
to worry about
the nonsense.
I mean,
it's just
aggravating.
I mean,
as for Microsoft,
Microsoft is
digging their
own grave.
Within five
years,
they'll be
gone.
You think so?
Really?
Yeah.
Five to ten
years,
they'll be
gone.
Linux,
first of all,
Microsoft is
too stubborn
to open up
their own
source code.
With all the
money they have,
they think,
oh,
you know,
we'll be
fat and greedy.
We don't want
to fix our own.
We have to wait
until a service
pack in January
to download.
I mean,
it's aggravating.
Okay,
anything else
that you want
to add
for the year
1998?
Well,
I just picked
up the Red Hat
Linux.
You know,
I can't really
set it up
on my laptop,
but,
you know,
I'll wait
until I get
a desktop,
though.
Why can't
you set it
up on your
laptop?
No,
it has a lot
to do with
different
configurations,
like video
card and
things like
that,
and memory
constraints.
I was reading
all that stuff.
Well,
the thing about
Linux is you
can make it
work on a
toaster if you
really try.
Yeah,
I'm going to
fiddle with it,
though.
But,
you know,
as for Microsoft,
boy,
hey,
it won't be
long.
It won't be
long.
It won't be
long before
Linux is the
standard,
though,
and we're
going to have
to learn
everything.
Forget about
DOS,
everybody's
going to have
to learn
Linux,
though.
Well,
that'll be
something.
Yeah,
that's going to
be the standard.
Thanks for
the call.
All right,
bye.
Interesting.
Thoughts?
A bright future
for open source.
I like the
gentleman's
optimism.
Yeah,
that would
be a good
thing.
One quick
thing on
Microsoft,
if I were
them,
I would just
split now
on my own
terms instead
of being
sentenced to
split.
How do you
do that?
Well,
they can split
their companies
up.
They can chop
themselves in
half if they
wanted to.
They just
give their
board of
directors,
I think this
is the way
it works,
you give
your board
of directors
each a slice
of the
action,
and you
split on
your own
terms instead
of being
told this
is how
you're going
to go.
Have fun.
Let's take
another phone
call,
212-209-2900.
Good evening,
you're on the
air.
Speak up,
please.
Okay,
you got to
talk to us.
That's the
condition here,
that's the
agreement.
Good evening,
you're on the
air.
Hey,
how's it
going?
Okay,
how are you?
I'm
telefreak.
Isn't this
more of the
year of
false broadcasting,
like with the
Washington Post
article and
things like that?
Well,
a lot of
inaccurate news
stories have
shown up.
You're referring
to the
Washington Post
article about
Agent Steele.
Agent Steele,
another story of
1998,
Agent Steele was
put back into
prison for a
probation violation
then became a
fugitive,
then was caught
and put back
into prison again
and I believe
he's going to
be sentenced,
get this,
he's going to
be sentenced
in early January.
He goes through
the justice system
like nothing,
but Kevin's in
there for four
years and who
knows what he's
going to be
sentenced to or
if he's found
guilty or innocent
or if he's
even going to
get a trial.
And yeah,
okay,
so we had a
story from
the Washington
Post about
the whole
Agent Steele
saga and they
mentioned in
passing Kevin
Mitnick,
in one sentence
they managed to
get the facts
wrong.
They said that
he was being
accused of or
charged with
credit card fraud
or stealing
credit card numbers
and he was
never charged
with that.
And what
happened was
we wound up
sending letters
to them,
contacting them,
calling them,
shining lights
at them,
everything we
could to get
their attention
and they just
didn't do
anything.
But finally
last Saturday
I believe they
printed a letter
from someone
who sent in
a letter.
Oh wow,
look at that.
Yeah,
and they finally
at least printed
someone else's
views.
They didn't
acknowledge
anything.
They didn't print
a correction or
a retraction or
anything like that,
but at least they
allowed somebody else
to say they were
wrong.
Yeah,
a couple other
TV shows and
things like that,
they like false
things about
Kevin.
They're like,
yeah,
he's got a
whole bunch of
credit card numbers
and just like the
Washington Post
thing.
It's pretty
messed up,
I guess.
It is.
It definitely
is and it shows
us a lot of
what's wrong
with the media
today,
what's wrong
with the way
press works
and how once
you say something
that's false
and you say it
in an authoritative
way.
Millions of people
believe it.
And it becomes
truth.
It's repeated
time and time
again.
You know,
we're still
fighting mistruths
that were spread
back in 1995
that just keep
getting repeated.
It's really sad.
Yep.
Thanks for the call.
I'm not.
And that brings
up another issue.
Where's there
some space?
I want to
demonstrate this.
This is the
Guinness Book
of World Records.
I'm going to
throw this over
on the table.
So this can,
it used to be
a paperback book
and obviously
it's not a
paperback book
anymore.
It's a big
hardcover thing.
It looks really
ominous and scary.
Now, here is,
you would think
that they would
just keep to
world records
but they don't
anymore.
They branched out.
They do other
things.
I actually went
down to the
bookstore and got
a copy of the
1999 Guinness
Book of World
Records.
And in there is
a category for
most notorious
hacker case.
You didn't think
that was a world
record, did you?
Most notorious
hacker case.
How do they
quantify that?
I don't know.
I'm not sure how
they get something
like this.
They used to
have this whole
chapter on how
they measured all
these different
things that were
in the book,
like the different
measurement systems
they used to
quantify these
records.
How did they
quantify this one?
Did they have
judges come by
and look at him
or something?
I intend to
challenge this.
I think, for one,
Rebel is a much
more notorious hacker
than Kevin Mitnick.
I intend to have
them correct this
and put the right
name there and
picture, too,
because I have
one.
Yeah.
All right.
Hacker Kevin Mitnick,
basically it's only a
paragraph, but
we're going to
stop every time
they make a
mistake, okay?
Well, we already
stopped at the
title, Most Notorious
Hacker Case.
That's, you know,
really subjective
there.
Hacker Kevin Mitnick
is alleged to have
broken into several
major organizations'
computer systems,
including those of
Sun Microsystems,
Motorola, and the
Pentagon.
Okay, stop right
there.
The Pentagon.
The Pentagon.
Wow.
I never heard that
before.
I never, well, I
mean, I've heard
all kinds of things
before, but that has
never been alleged,
documented, anything.
You know, and I'm
going to challenge
these people on
this.
Tell me when he
hacked into the
Pentagon, when he
was accused of
hacking into the
Pentagon.
Never happened.
Well, they got it
from the Times, who
got it from the
Post, who got it
from this, that, and
the other media
sources.
Right, and we
interviewed John
Markoff over the
summer who said
that the NORAD
story was wrong.
It's totally wrong.
He regrets ever
having printed it.
It was based on
bad information.
All right, here we
go.
Mitnick was arrested
on September 16,
1996.
Okay, stop again.
That's wrong.
He was not
arrested September
16, 1996.
That's when he was
indicted.
That's when the
indictment was handed
out after being in
prison for more than
a year.
He was arrested
February 15, 1995.
I mean, come on, how
hard is it to check
these things out?
You're the Guinness
Book of World Records
for God's sake.
You're supposed to
know these things.
Arrested on September
16, 1996.
And this also makes it
look like he wasn't
in prison all that
long.
I mean, it's still a
long time.
It's still a long time,
but look at the way
we're thinking now.
It's like two years
and change.
That's not so long.
Of course it's long.
Hell, a month is long.
All right, after an FBI
computer expert tracked
him down.
Whoa, now hold on a
second.
Yeah, now, you know,
I'm seeing this
everywhere.
I saw this in Louis
Free's FBI speech back
in 1997 that we just
got a hold of.
Was it 97?
Yeah, I think it was.
Where he said that the
FBI hired somebody to
find Mitnick.
Now the Guinness Book
of World Records is
saying an FBI computer
expert tracked him
down.
Satomo Shimomura, the
person who did track
him down, steadfastly
says that he was never
hired by the government,
was not working for
them.
Who is lying here?
Who is not telling
the truth?
It's either Louis Free
is not telling the
truth or Satomo Shimomura
is not telling the
truth.
Somebody's got it wrong.
And the Guinness Book
of World Records seems
to be banking on Louis
Free here, that he's
telling the truth.
So these are things
that really demand
answers.
Okay, let's continue.
We're about halfway
through now.
Hang on a second.
No, it's okay.
He has since been
charged with software
theft, wire fraud,
the interception of
wire communications,
communications, and
computer vandalism.
Okay, let's stop
right there.
Well, the interception
of wire communications?
He was never
charged with that.
I don't know.
He was never, what he
was charged with was
basically saying he was
somebody he wasn't.
If you look at the
indictment, which is on
the website, www.kevinmitnick.com
or freekevin.com, and
you'll see what he's
charged with.
He's charged with
calling up companies,
pretending he's somebody
he's not.
He's also charged with
copying files.
I mean, I'm not
making light of this.
That is what he's
charged with, copying
files.
Not charged with
stealing money, not
charged with taking a
sledgehammer to
something, not charged
with murder or, you
know, even robbing a
bank like those
Chinese hackers.
Nothing like that.
So, charged with
software theft, that's
technically correct
because they consider
copying a program to
be theft, even though I
really have problems
with that.
That's definitely
arguable.
Wire fraud, that's a
way of saying it, in
my understanding.
You know, anything can
be wire fraud.
But, interception of
wire communications, I
mean, that was
Satomo Shimomura who
did that.
He was the one who
was intercepting wire
communications.
And, computer vandalism,
where are they getting
this from?
Well, you take a can of
spray paint to the
monitor.
He has not been
accused of anything
like that, ever.
All right, Mitnick,
the first hacker ever to
have appeared on an
FBI wanted poster.
Oh, boy, now where did
they get this from?
First of all, we can't
find an FBI wanted
poster anywhere that
has Kevin's picture or
name on it.
There was a U.S.
Marshals poster, which I
believe is in the John
Lippman book, Fugitive
Game.
That's not the same
thing as being on the
FBI's most wanted list,
which is the other
mistruth that's being
spread all over the
place.
So, and also, you
know, the first hacker
ever to have appeared on
an FBI wanted poster, is
that necessarily true as
well?
I don't know for sure.
I mean, did these guys
check that out?
Seems to me like they
probably didn't.
Faces up to 12 years in
prison if he is found
guilty.
And that last fact, I
really don't know what
he's facing because the
whole thing is so crazy.
He could be facing...
He's facing up to...
He's facing more than
that, depending on how
they score the sentencing
guidelines.
Yeah, that's true.
I mean, it could be a
huge amount.
What were you facing when
you were in prison,
Bernie?
Fifteen years and a $500,000
fine.
Or if all three charges
were run concurrent or
consecutively, it could
have been 45 years and
one and a half million
dollars.
So Kevin's getting off
light if he gets out in
12 years.
This is what the
government said involved
no victims.
Amazing.
Absolutely amazing.
Now, that's the kind of
record I would like to see
in the Guinness Book of
World Records.
You know, most unjust
apprehension of somebody in
this country.
Why don't you see things
like that?
You know, I thought...
I was naive.
I thought the Guinness
Book of World Records was
somewhat, you know,
non-biased.
It was just numbers, facts
and numbers.
But here, you know, you're
seeing editorial comments
getting into these things
and just believing the
mistruths that are being
spread around.
So let's close the book on
that and throw that thing
away.
Ugh.
God.
Horrible.
All right, let's take another
phone call.
212-209-2900.
Good evening.
You're on Off the Hook.
Hello?
Yes, it's you.
Okay.
I just wanted to make a
comment relating to your
earlier talking about
encryption and how there's
more and more legislation
coming on board to try and
limit strong encryption both
internationally and nationally.
I have a rather fun fact to
relate to you in that I have
an online brokerage account and
the site certificate, when I
first started deciding to
trade online, I got the
domestic version of Netscape.
And the site certificate that
my brokerage house constantly
gives to me every time I make
a session is 128-bit, and it's
issued by a company in Cape Town,
South Africa, even though it's
supposedly, obviously, domestic
encryption only.
And I just thought that would be,
that's just incredibly, not
necessarily ironic, but just
goes to show you that.
Remember the key phrase,
selectively enforced.
That's true.
I mean, you could be seen as some
sort of international terrorist
because you have this South
African encryption scheme on your
computer.
Well, no.
It's the site certificate that says
that the brokerage house is actually
the brokerage house and so on and
so forth is actually issued by a
company out in Cape Town, South
Africa.
But the point is, is that it's
128-bit key as opposed to 40-bit.
And it's coming, it's being issued
by a company that's obviously
outside the United States, way
outside the United States.
It could possibly even be
considered a third world country by
certain people in the United
States.
So.
That's interesting.
That's absolutely interesting.
An interesting point, if you are
interested in upgrading your
browser from the international
encryption standard, the 40-bit key,
to your full 128-bit key
capability.
Is this legal?
Well, it gets kind of tricky.
You can go to a site, www.fortify.net.
They have a wonderful little program
for Windows 95 and Unix.
Unfortunately, they don't have a
Mac version yet, I don't believe,
where the capability of 128-bit keys
is shipped in every single version
of Netscape.
Is that legal?
I don't know, but if you run this
little program, you can turn it
back on.
Everything I do from the moment I
wake up until the moment I go to
sleep at night is preface with the
question, is this legal?
Isn't that very sad that you have
to do that in this country of all
of the world?
You have to keep asking yourself,
is what I'm doing illegal?
I don't believe in questioning
myself.
Oh, okay.
Yes.
I don't know if that's legal either.
Good evening, you're on Off the
Hook.
Okay, that was your big moment.
Good evening, you're on Off the
Hook.
Yeah, did you guys like the
seventh, what's it called, the
theme park, Six Flags hack?
Ah, yes.
Six Flags got hacked last night.
That was kind of interesting.
Yeah, my friends did good work.
What do you think?
I'm sorry?
My friends did good work.
What do you think?
You're saying you're affiliated with
this somehow, huh?
No.
Oh, okay.
No, I'm not saying it.
He is not saying that at all.
Okay, you're not saying you're
affiliated with it or you're not
affiliated with it.
You're just basically not saying
anything about it.
Right, right.
I'm just saying it's good work.
Yeah, well, it's interesting.
I'll put it that way.
It's not, you know, we do have a
copy of it on our website and the
reason it's there is because that's
a rather major site, Six Flags.
Imagine all these people, you know,
looking into this thing.
Oh, yeah, it was late at night and, you
know, no one really went to visit it, but
if they did use it, you're a really
well-hung squirrel.
Yeah, well, you certainly saw something
interesting and if you want to see that,
just go to the 2600 website where we
have it archived.
But again, you know, it's not exactly the
kind of thing that, you know, we promote,
but it did happen to a rather big site,
you know, and you can't ignore things like
that.
I'm sure Six Flags wanted to ignore it,
but unfortunately, people who were
planning their amusement park vacations
got one hell of an amusement last night.
All right, 212-209-2900.
Good evening.
You're on Off the Hook.
Oh, hi.
Yeah, I was just wondering, I hadn't heard
this mentioned on your show in June of
this year, are you aware of the military
transmitter that came online in Alaska?
That goes under the acronym HAARP?
Yes.
I never heard about this.
What's this all about?
H-A-A-R-P.
I'm not sure the whole acronym stands for.
It's the High Altitude Aurora Research
Project.
There you go.
Well, somehow I'm in the dark on this,
so fill me in.
What's this all about?
It is, it's, it's, according to the
government, it's supposed to be radio
frequency, high frequency transmitter
that is supposed to bounce off some
part of the atmosphere and search for
underground tunnels and chambers and
things, but there are other reports from
other sources saying that it's doing all
kinds of really awful, awful things like
causing depression in people all over the
place because they can't control where the
signal goes.
It's supposedly causing the weird weather
things or a lot of the weird weather things are
attributed to this thing, this transmitter.
It's, it's, it's an interesting situation
because there are actual patents for this
device on file with the U.S.
Patent Office, which you can review, and
supposedly it's just supposed to perform
research into high atmospheric phenomenon
and, like, actually trying to stimulate the
aurora.
However, theories have gone to mind control,
to mapping the core of the Earth, where
they're now saying they found, like, this
crystalline structure of the molten core,
and it's, it's been, it's, a lot of things
have been attributed to it.
It's becoming, like, the next Area 51, where
any strangeness that's out there can be
thrown to harp.
Yeah, I don't, so I'm not saying one way or
the other, I just try, you know, just making
you aware that it did come online in June.
I mean, it is broadcasting.
Oh, it's, it's working.
Yeah, oh, yeah.
So I just wanted to make a manual, whoever
might not be aware of it.
No, well, you certainly have made me aware of
it.
Something else to worry about.
I don't know what to attribute it to true
or not true about it, but there are,
there's a thing, are you aware of a thing
called WebFerret, or the different ferrets,
is there search tools that you can use on
the internet, and, like, WebFerret will go
out and use a bunch of search engines and
create this list of sites and things?
I've heard of things like that, yes.
Yeah.
I used to have a page like that.
It's really an amazing thing, but I did a,
I have a list of, of, of sites dealing with
HAARP that, you know, I haven't, haven't
investigated them all or anything, but
they're, you know, I mean, so you can use
these tools to, to get a lot of information
really quickly or find out where you can go.
Yeah, that's another great thing about 1998.
You've, you've found a lot of people being
able to do private research on the web where
if it interests you, you can really go out and
find a lot of this material because everybody
is dumping everything they can online.
Right. That's, that's the importance of the
net is the fact that this information isn't
being suppressed, at least not yet, and
that's why we have to defend the right to
freedom of information that currently exists
there. Okay, let's see if we can squeeze in
one or two more. Good evening. You're on
Off the Hook.
Yes. 1998 is the year that the FCC met
Kenardio.
That's right.
Yeah, that was nice, and it was also the
same year that Richard Lee was heard on six
continents with his criminality.
Could you, could you tell us a little bit
about what, what, what that is?
Oh, Kenardio was an eight and a half foot
Pinocchio likeness of the FCC chairman, Kenard.
This happened in Washington, D.C.?
He was actually connected by strings to the
NAB monster who was connected to the
corporate tower. His hands were as heavy as
cement in the wind. And I should get on and
say, though, that it was also the year that
Richard Lee was a criminal in seven
continents at the same time and didn't even
know it because he thought he had a 20-watt
status.
That may be a reference to Richard Lee's
attendance at a pirate radio conference in
Philadelphia, to which he was invited.
You never know where that microphone will
bring you.
Seven continents?
He knowingly broadcasts over a pirate radio
station.
More than once. He's sort of like, I hate to
make the comparison, like Elliot Ness when he
blew the foam off the beer and took his
swig. The only thing is that Elliot Ness is
wholly earnest and Richard Lee is wholly a
criminal. 1999 is going to be the year when
Guinness Book of World Records, which is very
unbiased, is going to say that the most
frustrated government agency in the world of
all times.
Thanks for filling us in on that. Let's take
one more phone call. Good evening. You're on
the air.
Hello.
Yes, go ahead. Make it quick.
Hi. You'd wondered what happened to Stephen
Glass. He is now a law student at Georgetown
University, which I read in the Pennsylvania
Gazette. And it says, recently qualified for
the law review, but for personal reasons has
declined to participate. Thank God.
Well, good. Thanks for the info.
Okay.
Thanks for calling. And we're just about out
of time. Any final thoughts from our
panelists on this year that has just gone
by and the next year that looms ahead?
Maybe on a personal note, but perhaps a
little moment of silence for John Postel, a
gentleman who passed away this year, the
keeper of the RFCs and a very influential
person in the weaning of the Internet as we
know it today. Mm-hmm. Well, without him, are
we going to face mass chaos? Well, who
knows? He's, he was a very intelligent man
and he had a handle on things and, well,
anyway, I'll miss him. Mm-hmm. He's a nice
guy. All right. Horsuchap.
Uh, high-end bandwidth. Uh, let's see, cable
modems went up, ADSL went up, and now the
backbones, I think, in the next year are
going to be showing some signs of stress. Yeah,
I think so. I think they, they might already
be showing signs of stress. Yeah. And, uh,
I'm, I'm waiting to see what'll happen
there. I'm, I'm praying that the telcos will
let their prices down so, uh, we can create
more, we as an Internet community. Don't, don't
pray. Demand. That's what you have to do. People
have to be, uh, standing up to these things a
little bit more, you know? We're the ones
ultimately in charge. Well, then I demand a
T3. That's awfully cocky of you, but, uh,
all right, go ahead and demand if you want.
Bernie S., how about you? Uh, I know
everybody's tired of hearing about Kevin
Mitnick, but just be glad it's not you
who's locked up for something
inconsequential. Yeah, for those of you
tired of hearing about Kevin Mitnick,
imagine how tired Kevin Mitnick is hearing
about Kevin Mitnick. You know, every day,
he's got to deal with it. Every day in
prison, it's, uh, it's really pretty sad. If
you want to send email to Kevin, uh, you
can do so by mailing
Kevin Mitnick at 2600.com. We'll forward
it right over to him. And, uh, of course,
if you want to send us mail, O-T-H at
2600.com. And who knows, maybe we'll read
it out over the air. Until next week, this
is Emanuel for Pork Chop Isaac and Bernie
S. Have yourselves a happy new year, and
just remember to always question what
you're told. Stay free, all that kind of
nice, uh, nice jazz there. And keep
listening to WBAI. Good night.
Okay, okay, hold on, hold on. I got to
stop the theme there for a second. Uh, we
forgot to mention something very
important. That's the 2600 meeting this,
uh, this Friday. Uh, Isaac, get back
here. Uh, you, you heard some
information I want you to relay to the
people. Uh, I, I called a couple of
people over at Citicorp. Uh, different
offices seem to have a different
understanding of whether or not they're
open on the first. Well, I called Barnes &
Noble, and they said they were open. Well,
uh. They didn't know what their name was
at first. It took them five seconds to
say Barnes & Noble, but, uh. The
receptionist says that they are open. The
real estate office says that the, the
lobby's open, but the train, uh, thing is
closed. Well, we don't care about the
train thing. Well, anybody who's
interested in the train might miss it.
All right, well, look. How about this?
Barnes & Noble is open, so people can
show up at Barnes & Noble in that little,
like, uh, food court thing they have in
there this Friday, and if you don't
want to do that, just show up next
Friday in the atrium, assuming that the
atrium is closed this Friday coming up,
okay? I'll be there both days. All right,
everybody's happy. We'll see you at, uh,
one of the meetings sometime. Good night.
Good night.
Good night.
I cut myself while shaving. Now I can't
make a cough. It couldn't get much
worse. But if they could, they would.
Bundinley Bone for the best, expect the
worst. I hope that's understood. Bundinley Bone.
Good night.
Bad Blind dla
hood Andy Bone for the best.
Bundinley Bone for the whole
first.
B kind of
more
more
What will you remember about 1998?
1998?
This is the year when the president was disgraced, Congress was disgraced.
The president gets impeached, the U.S. bombs Iraq.
How much more fun could we have had this past year?
It's the government of sex and violence, that's 1998.
Best year ever.
Who wants to have some fun?
Tune in for a shortcut through...
No way.
You got to go
No way.
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