[00:04.280 --> 00:14.860]  During the campaign to stop police brutality, Wake Up Call and some of its loyal listeners have come up with an action that everyone can participate in.
[00:15.220 --> 00:22.720]  If you are against police brutality and state-sponsored murders, wear a black ribbon as an act of protest.
[00:22.720 --> 00:46.820]  Inform your families, your neighbors, your co-workers, your church, and your school that this is being done in memory of Achmed Diallo, Patrick Bailey, Eleanor Bumpers, Anthony Baez, Yvonne Smallwood, Kevin Sedano, Elizabeth Mangum, Clifford Glover, Randy Evans,
[00:47.360 --> 00:48.800]  Nicholas Ashanti Barton.
[01:02.060 --> 01:07.040]  And you're listening to radio station WBAI in New York, where the time is 8 o'clock, time for Off the Hook.
[03:23.080 --> 03:23.640]  And a
[03:27.390 --> 03:30.870]  very good evening to everybody.
[03:30.870 --> 03:32.050]  The program is Off the Hook.
[03:34.170 --> 03:38.570]  And we're here on a typical Tuesday night, along with Bernie Estes.
[03:38.650 --> 03:39.210]  How are things down there in Philadelphia?
[03:39.470 --> 03:39.850]  How are you doing, Bernie?
[03:40.310 --> 03:40.610]  Hello.
[03:42.110 --> 03:43.170]  How are things down there?
[03:44.990 --> 03:47.490]  Besides freezing cold, pretty good.
[03:47.770 --> 03:47.950]  Uh-huh.
[03:48.450 --> 03:48.830]  That's good.
[03:48.850 --> 03:50.170]  And we have Isaac up here in New York.
[03:50.390 --> 03:50.930]  Oh, of course.
[03:51.090 --> 03:51.490]  How are you doing?
[03:51.770 --> 03:52.230]  Hi, Isaac.
[03:53.310 --> 04:03.610]  And we have all kinds of interesting news events to talk about tonight, as usual, in the world of high-tech and madness like that.
[04:03.610 --> 04:08.710]  Well, first of all, I guess the best thing to do is to dispel all the things that were mentioned last show.
[04:08.830 --> 04:09.350]  Not by us.
[04:09.410 --> 04:11.730]  We were simply spreading the word of Reuters.
[04:12.630 --> 04:15.770]  And, of course, the word of Reuters was wrong.
[04:16.470 --> 04:17.250]  How can that be?
[04:17.250 --> 04:18.570]  I don't know, but it happens.
[04:18.690 --> 04:19.050]  It happens.
[04:19.350 --> 04:22.490]  And this is just one thing that needs to be corrected.
[04:23.350 --> 04:24.590]  Now, according to Reuters...
[04:24.590 --> 04:38.790]  Actually, some people have gone and told me that Reuters went and printed a retraction of the story about the hackers taking over military satellites and demanding ransom and things like that.
[04:38.990 --> 04:40.730]  Well, that wasn't true, as we all know.
[04:41.450 --> 04:55.930]  According to the story in Reuters dated March 3rd, Britain's defense ministry Wednesday dismissed as not true a newspaper report that said hackers had seized control of one of its military communication satellites and issued blackmail threats.
[04:55.930 --> 05:04.890]  The Sunday business newspaper had said the intruders altered the course of one of Britain's four satellites used by defense planners and military forces around the world.
[05:05.270 --> 05:09.790]  There is no basis to the story whatsoever, said a defense ministry spokesman.
[05:09.910 --> 05:10.850]  It's not true.
[05:11.650 --> 05:15.170]  As security sources cited by the newspaper said...
[05:15.170 --> 05:16.090]  Oops...
[05:16.090 --> 05:20.630]  Said the satellite's course was changed just over two weeks ago.
[05:20.750 --> 05:26.690]  The hackers then issued a blackmail threat demanding money to stop interfering with the satellite.
[05:28.050 --> 05:31.870]  A police spokesman said the story was for the defense ministry to investigate.
[05:33.230 --> 05:37.290]  Military security is a matter for the defense ministry, he said.
[05:38.250 --> 05:42.130]  And, of course, we also have this statement from the Ministry of Defense, directly from them.
[05:42.630 --> 05:52.830]  Contrary to recent reports in the press, no hackers have at any time changed the characteristics of any communications channels within MOD's satellites.
[05:52.830 --> 05:53.550]  M.O.D.
[05:53.650 --> 05:56.410]  is not the hacker group, M.O.D., I should point out.
[05:57.030 --> 05:57.770]  Ministry of Defense.
[05:57.930 --> 06:00.010]  Yes, the Ministry of Defense over there in England.
[06:00.350 --> 06:00.910]  Mini-PACs.
[06:00.950 --> 06:01.790]  I mean defense.
[06:01.830 --> 06:03.430]  Well, I think they were first.
[06:04.090 --> 06:04.710]  Who, Mini-PACs?
[06:05.690 --> 06:06.590]  Well, M.O.D.
[06:06.710 --> 06:07.370]  over there was first.
[06:07.530 --> 06:08.290]  Well, yes, but...
[06:08.290 --> 06:09.190]  I'm pretty sure they were.
[06:09.730 --> 06:12.830]  I was making an obscure Orwellian reference, but that's okay.
[06:13.110 --> 06:13.370]  It's okay.
[06:13.450 --> 06:14.230]  Nobody gets it anyway.
[06:14.530 --> 06:14.890]  Oh, well, thanks.
[06:15.250 --> 06:15.570]  1984.
[06:15.970 --> 06:16.430]  There we go.
[06:16.550 --> 06:16.890]  All right.
[06:18.270 --> 06:26.450]  All of our operational traffic continues to be transmitted and received as expected, and there have been no unusual or unexplained interruptions to service.
[06:28.610 --> 06:43.550]  To correct errors in Robert Ulding's article, we do not currently carry satellite television on the satellites mentioned, which are employed wholly by the military for military purposes.
[06:43.770 --> 06:44.670]  What, they don't watch television?
[06:44.970 --> 06:45.870]  I guess not.
[06:46.890 --> 06:49.970]  We certainly do not share satellites with commercial satellite TV providers.
[06:51.410 --> 06:55.950]  Even in the name of education, we do not allow any external accesses to our system.
[06:56.610 --> 07:09.050]  Mr. Jeff Baines would appreciate the difference between accessing and causing problems for very simple, inexpensive, experimental satellites of the type used by universities and a highly complex, very secure military satellite.
[07:09.190 --> 07:10.470]  Do you have any idea who Jeff Baines is?
[07:11.070 --> 07:12.010]  Not really, no.
[07:12.530 --> 07:13.230]  Oh, here we go.
[07:13.430 --> 07:15.350]  Editor of What Satellite?
[07:16.210 --> 07:18.650]  Okay, apparently a publication or something like that.
[07:19.210 --> 07:25.170]  He's someone that said it was, you just have to learn a few control codes and send up your own signal to play around with a satellite yourself.
[07:25.330 --> 07:27.190]  And that was widely quoted.
[07:27.530 --> 07:28.890]  They're responding directly to him.
[07:30.550 --> 07:32.090]  That's a privilege, I guess.
[07:32.810 --> 07:47.530]  The monitoring of the performance and control of our satellites is taken exceedingly seriously and is done on a continuous basis, confirming that no intrusions have taken place as a matter of normal practice and has not resulted in the need for frenetic activity.
[07:49.030 --> 07:55.310]  Additionally, any investigation of a suspected intrusion would have involved Royal Air Force specialists.
[07:55.910 --> 08:04.050]  Had any control link been interrupted, any hacker would have discovered that the links were protected by multiple layers of the highest forms of encryption technology.
[08:04.290 --> 08:08.530]  This alone would have prevented them reading or introducing any mischievous command information.
[08:08.830 --> 08:17.570]  Moreover, the interruption, if any false or unexpected commands had actually been sent, would have been immediately detectable by the computer control system.
[08:18.010 --> 08:22.870]  Additionally, any hacker would have had to maintain synchronization.
[08:23.530 --> 08:24.690]  I hope everyone's taking notes.
[08:25.190 --> 08:33.810]  Between the satellite's configuration and the ground system's computer and database, or yet more alarms would have been generated.
[08:34.070 --> 08:48.010]  Clearly, this all assumes that the hacker had been able to penetrate the physical security around the system, as well as all the usual password verification and user profile security, which themselves are also very well protected.
[08:49.350 --> 08:55.650]  There have been no alarms and there are no inconsistencies in the control system databases.
[08:55.650 --> 08:59.910]  All of our satellites remain under full control, which has never been lost.
[09:00.150 --> 09:05.930]  There have been no spurious movements and no unexpected communications effects.
[09:08.930 --> 09:10.530]  So, I feel a lot more secure now.
[09:11.250 --> 09:15.590]  But, you know, I'm still a little annoyed that this got the attention that it got in the first place.
[09:15.690 --> 09:16.670]  Bernie, how did these things happen?
[09:17.130 --> 09:20.110]  Uh, I think it's a vast right-wing conspiracy.
[09:20.550 --> 09:20.870]  You did?
[09:21.010 --> 09:21.770]  A right-wing conspiracy?
[09:21.970 --> 09:22.150]  Wow.
[09:22.150 --> 09:26.070]  Well, because, uh, well, or some kind of wing conspiracy, military wing conspiracy.
[09:26.330 --> 09:34.610]  Because, uh, if you notice, uh, our own military has been making similar noises the past couple of weeks about things that, uh, aren't new to anyone.
[09:35.270 --> 09:41.070]  Uh, you know, Pentagon computers have been under, uh, under attack by, uh, by...
[09:42.330 --> 09:44.770]  People fooling around for, for years.
[09:45.050 --> 09:47.130]  Uh, Bernie, they're, they're coming to get you for those remarks.
[09:47.330 --> 09:48.350]  Not, not again.
[09:49.590 --> 09:54.050]  But, uh, while they're dragging you away, let's, uh, let's, let's look at those articles that you're referring to.
[09:54.250 --> 09:56.210]  Uh, Pentagon at war with computer hackers.
[09:56.450 --> 09:57.270]  Uh, the U.S.
[09:57.370 --> 09:59.350]  Defense Department is in a state of cyber war.
[09:59.590 --> 10:01.550]  That's right, cyber war is now a word.
[10:01.790 --> 10:03.130]  And this comes from, uh, CNN.
[10:03.890 --> 10:07.730]  Uh, Pentagon computers are under a coordinated, organized attack from hackers.
[10:08.150 --> 10:12.090]  That's according to Representative Kurt Weldon, a Republican of Pennsylvania.
[10:12.310 --> 10:14.230]  Bernie, what is it with Pennsylvania, anyway?
[10:14.570 --> 10:16.510]  Well, I, I know Kurt Weldon.
[10:16.670 --> 10:21.350]  I have spoken with him on several occasions at, uh, various fundraising events, that sort of thing.
[10:21.730 --> 10:23.610]  And, uh, I don't personally like the guy.
[10:23.710 --> 10:25.910]  Well, it's not, he's not an unlikable person.
[10:26.190 --> 10:36.150]  He just has no technical knowledge about, he's, he's a, he's a, uh, former, uh, school teacher, you know, just general subjects, like, uh, geography, that sort of thing.
[10:36.330 --> 10:38.770]  And, uh, he's a, uh, he was a volunteer fireman.
[10:38.770 --> 10:44.890]  Uh, but he had such a squeaky, squeaky, clean, clean record about 10, 12 years ago that he got himself elected, uh, congressman here.
[10:45.010 --> 10:45.930]  Did he ever do any drugs?
[10:46.490 --> 10:48.130]  Uh, I doubt it very much.
[10:48.210 --> 10:48.610]  I doubt he...
[10:48.610 --> 10:49.530]  That's probably his problem.
[10:49.730 --> 10:49.990]  I mean...
[10:49.990 --> 10:51.170]  I doubt he even inhaled.
[10:51.270 --> 10:52.070]  This guy is...
[10:52.070 --> 10:52.430]  He's too squeaky clean.
[10:52.630 --> 11:00.290]  But he doesn't, I heard, I saw him being interviewed on, uh, uh, NBC, or not CNN, uh, CNN, uh, last week.
[11:00.430 --> 11:04.390]  And as soon as I saw his face, I'm like, Kurt Weldon, he doesn't know anything about computers.
[11:04.390 --> 11:08.150]  And here he is talking about this stuff, and it just blew my mind.
[11:08.250 --> 11:20.230]  So, I believe this is a plot by, uh, by someone in the, in the, uh, Defense Department to, uh, to get more funding for some other pet projects, et cetera.
[11:20.570 --> 11:22.770]  Well, gee, you know, it's, uh, it's...
[11:22.770 --> 11:23.350]  Wouldn't be the first time.
[11:23.490 --> 11:24.790]  Well, it certainly wouldn't be the first time.
[11:24.870 --> 11:38.770]  It's a year almost to the day after last year's little fiasco where, if you recall, uh, uh, the military was attacked, uh, in, in the most, uh, uh, was it the most systematic, uh, organized attack to date?
[11:38.990 --> 11:39.610]  Yeah, so...
[11:39.610 --> 11:39.850]  By what?
[11:39.950 --> 11:40.470]  Three teenagers?
[11:40.610 --> 11:41.270]  By three teenagers.
[11:41.910 --> 11:45.170]  And this came a day or so before the new budget was announced.
[11:45.390 --> 11:45.910]  How about that?
[11:46.050 --> 11:48.390]  And that's exactly what's, uh, what's happening here as well.
[11:48.710 --> 12:06.650]  And I, I eerily remember while I was being held in prison back in, uh, this was 90, summer of 90, late, late spring, early summer of 96, if you remember, the, uh, the, what turned out to be estimates of, of, what was it, like 50,000 attacks over, over a period of several months.
[12:06.830 --> 12:07.710]  Do you remember that whole thing?
[12:08.130 --> 12:17.150]  And then, uh, and then, uh, I remember you telling me over the prison telephone that, that something was coming, that there's going to be some announcement, that there's, there's some big funding thing coming down the road.
[12:17.310 --> 12:20.090]  And sure enough, a week or two later, you were absolutely right.
[12:20.090 --> 12:39.150]  Janet Reno got on TV and stated that, uh, they were launching this new, uh, um, new whole department of, of law enforcement, big law enforcement division, um, huge, like, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars, uh, to, to combat, uh, computer hackers.
[12:39.730 --> 12:53.610]  And, uh, it, it, it, it, it also, uh, bothered me at the time that they were going to bring the CIA into this fold, which for the first time brought the CIA into domestic, um, activities.
[12:53.910 --> 12:56.950]  At least the first time publicly brought the CIA into domestic activities.
[12:57.530 --> 13:00.110]  So, um, this seems to be a recurring theme every year.
[13:01.210 --> 13:03.770]  And do we have any proof that any of this stuff has happened?
[13:04.150 --> 13:07.370]  Well, you see, the thing is, uh, there, there are never any specifics given.
[13:07.490 --> 13:10.230]  And because this is the military, they can't give any details.
[13:10.570 --> 13:14.750]  But let's see, let's see if we can read between the lines here about, uh, what Kurt Weldon is saying.
[13:14.910 --> 13:21.890]  He told CNN on Thursday that Deputy Secretary of Defense John Hammer, uh, briefed the lawmakers at last week's hearing.
[13:22.130 --> 13:27.890]  And this was a closed door hearing, which is why he has to tell you what they said, because we're not allowed to know otherwise.
[13:28.650 --> 13:29.430]  Um, he...
[13:29.430 --> 13:32.270]  But, uh, Kurt Weldon, who knows nothing about computers, is allowed to know.
[13:32.510 --> 13:33.550]  It's amazing, isn't it?
[13:33.870 --> 13:49.910]  Uh, so John Hammer, uh, the, the, the Deputy Secretary of Defense briefed the lawmakers last week on a specific breach of cybersecurity that represents a, and this will sound familiar, coordinated, organized attempt to gain access to classified information in Pentagon computers.
[13:50.190 --> 13:52.670]  There is an attack underway, Weldon said.
[13:52.670 --> 13:55.470]  You can basically say, we are at war.
[13:56.150 --> 13:57.110]  You can say that.
[13:57.310 --> 13:57.950]  Go ahead, say it.
[13:58.230 --> 13:59.610]  We are at war.
[13:59.710 --> 14:00.870]  We can say it, see?
[14:00.890 --> 14:01.250]  Oh, okay.
[14:01.570 --> 14:04.670]  And this, we have the permission of Representative Kurt Weldon to say that.
[14:05.070 --> 14:11.830]  Uh, one defense official said that the FBI is leading an investigation of a series of attack incidents.
[14:12.590 --> 14:20.590]  Uh, she could not provide details of the inquiry, but said that 60 to 80 attacks were recorded daily on the Defense Department's computer systems.
[14:20.650 --> 14:25.890]  How many, how many attacks do we get on the... They're not doing their job very well if they can only detect 80 a day.
[14:25.990 --> 14:26.410]  Yeah, really.
[14:26.410 --> 14:28.790]  What exactly defines an attack is more interesting.
[14:29.130 --> 14:31.010]  It's probably like, they probably include like a ping, you know?
[14:31.010 --> 14:32.730]  Yeah, that's, that's what I'm wondering, like, every single ICMP pack coming across.
[14:32.730 --> 14:33.750]  Do you think they count the pings?
[14:34.090 --> 14:36.110]  They count the pings, so they get 80 pings a day.
[14:36.410 --> 14:38.070]  Well, they talked about 50,000 before.
[14:38.070 --> 14:40.610]  I don't know, uh, where they got that one.
[14:40.630 --> 14:41.050]  That is amazing.
[14:41.190 --> 14:46.670]  We have people working 24 hours a day to monitor our networks and all these protective measures are in place.
[14:46.950 --> 14:50.630]  Uh, apparently they didn't have people working around the clock to watch the networks before.
[14:50.750 --> 14:51.890]  This is like a new thing for them.
[14:52.950 --> 14:58.330]  Um, Pentagon sources say investigators traced a number of the attacks to sites in Russia.
[14:58.610 --> 14:59.010]  Ooh.
[14:59.870 --> 15:05.130]  Yeah, I don't know if people realize how easy it is to get to a site in Russia and do something from that site.
[15:05.270 --> 15:06.410]  You know, it doesn't prove anything.
[15:06.970 --> 15:09.670]  Uh, you can just simply go from any site, any place.
[15:09.770 --> 15:10.590]  That's the nature of the net.
[15:10.790 --> 15:14.030]  Uh, it was not known whether the sources were government or non-governmental.
[15:14.750 --> 15:20.930]  Investigators also could not rule out the possibility the computer attacks were coming from elsewhere and were simply channeled through Russia.
[15:21.130 --> 15:22.810]  At least they're aware of the possibility.
[15:23.210 --> 15:32.170]  Uh, classified Air Force computer systems at Kelly Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas came under attack on January 7th and 8th from a number of locations around the world.
[15:32.810 --> 15:33.750]  Sources told CNN.
[15:34.190 --> 15:34.230]  Yes.
[15:34.450 --> 15:38.010]  Why are classified Air Force systems on the, uh, greater internet?
[15:38.110 --> 15:39.730]  Oh, well, we'll, we'll ask that question.
[15:39.850 --> 15:40.670]  That's a very good question.
[15:40.770 --> 15:42.590]  But apparently they, they seem to think that they're not.
[15:42.750 --> 15:46.230]  Uh, they were detected and stopped by newly developed Defense Department systems.
[15:46.870 --> 15:52.510]  Uh, Weldon says, says this was not a typical hacker and that the attacks seemed to be targeting specific systems.
[15:52.630 --> 15:54.550]  I'd like to know what his definition of a typical hacker is.
[15:54.570 --> 15:56.590]  I guess, I guess hackers don't target specific systems.
[15:56.690 --> 15:57.090]  No, no, no.
[15:57.290 --> 15:59.910]  Hackers just hack in all directions at once.
[16:00.010 --> 16:00.110]  Yeah.
[16:00.810 --> 16:09.950]  Uh, Hammer reportedly told the closed-door hearing that military security analysts had uncovered and stopped computer hackers who had found a new way to attack open Pentagon networks on the internet.
[16:10.310 --> 16:19.750]  Uh, the New York Times reported on Friday that Hammer said this new method of hacking had been discovered by analysts at the Naval Surface Warfare Center in Dahlgreen, uh, Virginia.
[16:20.430 --> 16:31.010]  Uh, the specialists there found a method to thwart these low-level probes that differed from the more frequent assaults on security systems and alerted all the military services to the new problem and provided a remedy for it.
[16:31.150 --> 16:36.030]  We're probably talking about strobe here or something, the equivalent of that, where you basically just map out a system.
[16:36.170 --> 16:36.170]  Wait, let me get this straight.
[16:36.170 --> 16:38.650]  Kurt Weldon, Kurt Weldon said someone was attacking his naval?
[16:39.150 --> 16:39.790]  Uh, no.
[16:39.950 --> 16:40.610]  Yeah, something like that.
[16:40.890 --> 16:55.650]  No, you see, it's, it's, it's getting distorted, but, uh, but, uh... Actually, I believe the Naval Surface Warfare Center is hosting a, uh, security conference which is supposedly open to the public for zero, uh, dollars, uh, for a seat in the near future.
[16:55.650 --> 16:55.710]  Really?
[16:55.710 --> 16:56.190]  Oh, we have to go.
[16:56.190 --> 16:56.630]  When is it?
[16:57.210 --> 17:00.150]  Uh, jeez, I'll, I'll have to find the information.
[17:00.410 --> 17:02.510]  I could have sworn something passed by my email box.
[17:02.510 --> 17:10.910]  Okay, somebody with access to the net or, better yet, access to the Pentagon military networks, uh, please check into that and let us know, hopefully during this show.
[17:11.470 --> 17:22.310]  Uh, Pentagon officials say no classified computer systems have been breached, but, Representative Weldon said there was fear that the attackers may have penetrated systems that could lead to access to classified systems.
[17:22.510 --> 17:22.790]  Oh.
[17:23.530 --> 17:26.290]  See, now, here's the thing that, that I don't understand, you know.
[17:26.450 --> 17:33.190]  If you have something that's really, you know, sensitive and vulnerable, you don't put it on a system that can be accessed via a public network.
[17:33.390 --> 17:35.030]  Very simple premise there.
[17:35.430 --> 17:37.650]  Something the Defense Department needs to understand.
[17:38.250 --> 17:44.350]  And if we're talking about things that are open to the public, then we're not talking about the big scandal that everybody is screaming about.
[17:44.830 --> 17:46.390]  So, uh, you can't have it both ways.
[17:46.490 --> 17:46.930]  Which is it?
[17:47.090 --> 17:52.730]  You know, are people breaking into a, uh, you know, a classified system, or are there no classified systems on the net?
[17:53.170 --> 17:53.330]  You know?
[17:54.230 --> 17:54.390]  Yeah.
[17:54.910 --> 17:58.850]  They're trying to make it seem like, uh, yeah, everything's under control, but the hackers are a real threat.
[17:59.310 --> 18:00.770]  And we have to wipe them all out.
[18:01.090 --> 18:01.210]  Hmm.
[18:01.830 --> 18:08.250]  Uh, a year ago, Hammer told lawmakers about Solar Sunrise, a series of attacks in February 1998 that, uh, targeted Pentagon computers.
[18:08.430 --> 18:09.930]  Didn't, but you didn't know that it had that name?
[18:10.070 --> 18:10.510]  No, I didn't.
[18:10.630 --> 18:11.450]  Solar Sunrise.
[18:11.490 --> 18:13.230]  Is that any relation to Sundance, or?
[18:13.370 --> 18:21.410]  The attacks were widespread, systematic, and showed a pattern that indicated they might be the preparation for a coordinated attack on the defense information structure.
[18:22.550 --> 18:26.370]  And, uh, it turned out to be a bunch of teenage kids.
[18:26.990 --> 18:30.010]  So that's, uh, that's basically what we're, uh, looking at right now.
[18:30.010 --> 18:30.530]  But we're coordinated, though.
[18:30.770 --> 18:31.910]  Very coordinated teenage kids.
[18:31.930 --> 18:32.910]  Very coordinated, indeed.
[18:33.330 --> 18:36.250]  Do a balancing act on a small tightroper or something.
[18:36.510 --> 18:36.890]  All right.
[18:37.050 --> 18:39.130]  So, uh, that's the story as far as that goes.
[18:39.250 --> 18:41.310]  And, yeah, the similarities are pretty amazing.
[18:41.630 --> 18:43.010]  Why don't they just outlaw teenagers?
[18:43.350 --> 18:50.890]  Uh, well, you know, they're not too far away from doing that with all the curfews that are being implemented nationwide and, uh, the, uh, the other things.
[18:50.890 --> 18:52.150]  Sounds like that's the source of the problem.
[18:52.290 --> 18:54.990]  They should just declare war on teenagers.
[18:55.370 --> 18:56.410]  You know, because they do the same thing.
[18:56.470 --> 19:01.150]  When they declare war, like, on Iraq, you know, most of the people they kill are not military.
[19:01.330 --> 19:02.610]  They're, they're like civilians.
[19:03.130 --> 19:09.790]  So, if you're in a state of war, you don't worry about killing all this, um, what do they call, collateral damage when you're at war?
[19:10.250 --> 19:21.550]  So, if they just declare war on teenagers, and, you know, and just kill them all, then you'll get the bad guys, and you'll say, sure, you'll have some collateral damage, but you'll have won the war.
[19:21.690 --> 19:24.130]  Well, you also have some damage like extinction of the race.
[19:24.790 --> 19:25.810]  Well, that's a minor thing.
[19:25.890 --> 19:27.830]  Yeah, it might not be a bad thing either, the way this race is going.
[19:27.830 --> 19:34.610]  Well, I think that's something they've been doing for, they've been doing that for quite some time, planning for that, haven't they, with the, with how many tens of thousands of nuclear weapons?
[19:34.950 --> 19:35.170]  Uh-huh.
[19:35.210 --> 19:36.010]  Well, that's another story.
[19:36.430 --> 19:36.550]  Yeah.
[19:36.670 --> 19:45.430]  An interesting thing, though, is, um, the only other war that I'm aware of, or a quote-unquote war, uh, along these lines, is the war on drugs.
[19:45.710 --> 19:45.990]  Yes.
[19:46.150 --> 19:48.550]  Which wasn't actually involved with the military.
[19:49.050 --> 19:57.490]  That was a White House kind of thing, where basically it was intelligence agencies going after, uh, you know, the drug trafficking or anything.
[19:57.630 --> 19:58.990]  Didn't Nancy Reagan start that war?
[19:59.370 --> 20:01.130]  I have no idea who started the war.
[20:01.350 --> 20:02.430]  Well, I could probably look it up.
[20:02.550 --> 20:04.730]  I think the phrase was first coined during the Reagan administration.
[20:04.950 --> 20:05.050]  Okay.
[20:05.050 --> 20:09.490]  But actually, military, uh, military agencies were involved in that, and still are.
[20:09.490 --> 20:11.010]  Well, DIA and things like that.
[20:11.290 --> 20:11.450]  Uh-huh.
[20:11.630 --> 20:21.670]  But, uh, the fact that, uh, a declaration of war from the military is coming out on hackers, uh, has this little voice in the back of my head saying, start worrying.
[20:22.290 --> 20:22.470]  Yeah.
[20:23.290 --> 20:24.870]  Hackers on drugs, imagine that.
[20:25.050 --> 20:37.390]  Well, the point being that, uh, if the military decides to declare war, to declare a war on someone, uh, it usually involves, like, small pieces of metal that are shot out of long tubes made of metal, and, like, go through people.
[20:37.390 --> 20:39.830]  I had a few of those pointed at me almost four years ago.
[20:40.070 --> 20:40.270]  Yeah.
[20:40.530 --> 20:40.730]  Yeah.
[20:40.890 --> 20:43.770]  Well, a lot of us may have those things pointed at us, uh, in the future.
[20:44.290 --> 20:46.290]  We're seeing all kinds of ominous things.
[20:46.470 --> 20:50.990]  And to the casual listeners just tuning in, hearing about this, it's, um, it's frightening.
[20:51.130 --> 20:51.650]  It really is.
[20:51.890 --> 20:59.370]  Um, there are movements going on throughout the nation, uh, increased militarization domestically.
[20:59.590 --> 21:06.010]  Um, over, overseeing certain, uh, operations by US military against US citizens.
[21:06.770 --> 21:09.710]  Um, I don't know where the 21st century is going to take us.
[21:09.810 --> 21:12.610]  I don't think Y2K is our, uh, is our biggest worry right now.
[21:12.710 --> 21:14.410]  We're going to be getting into Y2K in just a moment.
[21:14.470 --> 21:24.870]  But first, before we do that, uh, a couple of, uh, other little, um, little, uh, tidbits that have come across, including this one that I think you'll find interesting, Bernie, because it has to do with the Secret Service.
[21:25.210 --> 21:25.570]  Oh, good.
[21:25.570 --> 21:33.350]  A man accused, yes, your favorite people, a man accused of pointing clasped hands at another motorist and saying, bang, is facing a criminal charge.
[21:33.470 --> 21:36.650]  It turns out the other driver was a Secret Service agent.
[21:37.010 --> 21:41.590]  The incident happened Monday afternoon after the two cars nearly collided in Oakland.
[21:41.870 --> 21:48.650]  One of the cars is being driven by a Secret Service agent in town as part of the security detail for visiting Vice President Al Gore.
[21:49.010 --> 21:52.530]  Uh, the other contained passenger Terry Williams of Hayward.
[21:52.710 --> 22:02.190]  After the close call, officials say, Williams leaned out of the car with his arms extended and his hands clasped as though he were holding a gun and yelled, bang.
[22:02.630 --> 22:03.050]  Bang.
[22:03.270 --> 22:09.050]  The, the agent responded by pulling a real gun and yelling, police.
[22:10.510 --> 22:11.470]  Oh, he's not police.
[22:11.510 --> 22:12.190]  He's not police.
[22:12.430 --> 22:13.570]  He's not there, he said.
[22:13.710 --> 22:14.190]  He's there.
[22:14.370 --> 22:15.470]  But he's not really police.
[22:15.770 --> 22:16.870]  I mean, he's Secret Service.
[22:18.010 --> 22:18.550]  I don't know.
[22:18.630 --> 22:24.790]  Yeah, when they, when they came into, they came into where I was four years ago, they, they said Secret Service and police and Secret Service.
[22:24.910 --> 22:27.870]  The Secret Service guys said Secret Service and police guys said police.
[22:28.250 --> 22:29.270]  Who said it first?
[22:29.890 --> 22:31.090]  Um, it was all at once.
[22:31.210 --> 22:34.530]  It was like, it was like everybody shouted at once and then there were like six guns pointed at my head.
[22:34.530 --> 22:34.530]  Secret Police?
[22:34.530 --> 22:36.330]  You should have said One at a time, people.
[22:36.430 --> 22:38.170]  I can't hear you if you all talk at once.
[22:39.330 --> 22:44.950]  The car Williams was riding in then sped off, but the agent was able to stop it using his superpowers.
[22:45.630 --> 22:48.750]  Williams was arrested on a charge of making a terroristic threat.
[22:48.990 --> 22:49.410]  Oh, man.
[22:49.770 --> 22:50.490]  Oh, give me a break.
[22:50.870 --> 22:51.830]  Terroristic threat, yeah.
[22:52.230 --> 23:00.970]  However, prosecutor Norbert Chu later changed the charge to disturbing the peace, which makes it illegal to fight or challenge someone to a fight in public.
[23:01.290 --> 23:01.770]  How about that?
[23:01.790 --> 23:02.830]  That's a little more reasonable.
[23:02.930 --> 23:05.010]  It's illegal to challenge someone to a fight in public.
[23:06.030 --> 23:10.090]  Okay, Secret Service, you and me, outside in the parking lot, tomorrow at 3.
[23:10.270 --> 23:10.490]  There.
[23:11.050 --> 23:11.790]  What have I done?
[23:11.870 --> 23:12.790]  What have I done just now?
[23:13.030 --> 23:13.330]  Uh-oh.
[23:13.430 --> 23:16.990]  I've challenged the entire agency to a fight, publicly, over the airwaves.
[23:16.990 --> 23:20.190]  I have a feeling you're going to have a little problem with sheer numbers.
[23:21.250 --> 23:23.790]  No, because they're going to have to figure out how to get into Wall Street.
[23:24.110 --> 23:25.010]  Oh, that's another stuff.
[23:25.010 --> 23:26.530]  You can't get into Wall Street unless you work here.
[23:27.030 --> 23:28.230]  So good luck, Secret Service.
[23:28.370 --> 23:30.510]  We'll get those permits.
[23:31.270 --> 23:34.510]  Gesturing like you have a gun and saying bang indicates he is challenging him with a weapon.
[23:34.510 --> 23:40.070]  I don't think it's really true, but it's immediately going to provoke a retaliatory response from someone with a weapon.
[23:41.350 --> 23:41.790]  Okay.
[23:41.870 --> 23:42.450]  I don't know.
[23:42.670 --> 23:44.630]  The prosecutor said Williams picked the wrong victim.
[23:44.790 --> 23:46.710]  Like he knew the guy was a Secret Service agent.
[23:46.710 --> 24:01.210]  And here's the other thing, and this is really bothering me because, you know, with the whole case here in New York City with, you know, cops killing innocent people and things like that, there's this mentality that law enforcement people somehow exist on a level above all the rest of us.
[24:01.210 --> 24:11.530]  That they're some sort of, you know, superhuman creature and that they're above suspicion and above the law and above any kind of penalty for when things go wrong.
[24:11.770 --> 24:12.470]  We've seen that.
[24:12.550 --> 24:17.550]  We saw that in your case with the Secret Service and the way you were harassed by them, Bernie.
[24:17.550 --> 24:22.530]  We see it every day with the way police flagrantly break laws.
[24:22.730 --> 24:28.990]  You know, something as minor as just going through a red light or something as major as killing someone and getting away with it.
[24:29.090 --> 24:32.330]  Well, it's also the kind of person that a job like that attracts.
[24:33.010 --> 24:33.130]  Sure.
[24:33.130 --> 24:48.190]  I'd heard, I forget where it was, and I really wish I remember the exact quote, but the kind of person that becomes a police officer is the kind of person who believes he's above everyone else and has some kind of power over anyone for his own kind of self-gratification.
[24:48.190 --> 24:48.990]  That's one type.
[24:49.090 --> 24:52.210]  But, I mean, we can't generalize and say these are the kinds of people.
[24:52.350 --> 24:54.090]  We're trying to compensate for some other inadequacy.
[24:54.390 --> 24:54.630]  Uh-huh.
[24:55.350 --> 25:01.230]  Right, and that's, you know, what they say, what a lot of people say is that law enforcement people are only human.
[25:01.230 --> 25:02.770]  And I'm saying the same thing.
[25:02.910 --> 25:06.610]  Yes, they're only human, and therefore they should be treated as they are human.
[25:07.150 --> 25:13.630]  Occasionally they're going to do something bad, and when they do something bad, they should be treated exactly the same way as when someone else does something bad.
[25:13.810 --> 25:14.270]  Well, that's a legal estimate.
[25:14.270 --> 25:15.190]  Again, they want it both ways.
[25:15.590 --> 25:16.210]  Yeah, yeah.
[25:16.510 --> 25:26.810]  And, uh, we're the people, and I don't think we should permit that, and, uh, that's why I hope more people wind up protesting various parts when, uh, things are wrong.
[25:26.950 --> 25:29.730]  And we're seeing a lot of that in New York City these days, and it's a good thing.
[25:29.730 --> 25:34.570]  It's a very good thing to have people getting out there and speaking up when something's bad.
[25:34.810 --> 25:36.830]  Respect for the police is also a good thing.
[25:37.030 --> 25:38.750]  Respect for the people is a good thing, too.
[25:38.950 --> 25:44.490]  I don't know if you've... I mean, have you talked to policemen that consider the people that they protect to be the scum of the earth?
[25:44.770 --> 25:45.790]  That scares me.
[25:45.910 --> 25:47.570]  That scares me a lot when people are like that.
[25:47.730 --> 25:55.070]  And I think, Bernie, you can attest to federal agents who feel that way about people that they supposedly are protecting or arresting.
[25:55.330 --> 25:56.830]  Respect is a mutual thing.
[25:56.970 --> 25:58.990]  You know, I will respect someone who respects me.
[25:58.990 --> 26:06.810]  But if someone is going to abuse me, lie to me, lie about me, you can't expect me to respect that kind of person.
[26:06.910 --> 26:08.170]  Oh, I don't expect that at all.
[26:08.310 --> 26:24.110]  But I was actually coming home at one point to the wonderful borough of Queens, and I passed by an officer who was directing traffic because a light had gone out, which doesn't really happen anymore because those LED red light things, those are really cool.
[26:24.250 --> 26:24.450]  Yeah.
[26:24.690 --> 26:24.970]  Anyway.
[26:26.390 --> 26:28.610]  But the yellow and green ones, I think, are still...
[26:28.610 --> 26:29.750]  Yeah, those are still normal bulbs.
[26:30.570 --> 26:41.630]  But anyway, getting back to the anecdote, this cop was directing traffic, and there were people on all four corners of the street yelling at him, just like pig and things like this.
[26:41.670 --> 26:41.850]  Oh, really?
[26:42.090 --> 26:43.270]  Yes, absolutely.
[26:43.270 --> 26:46.190]  And I'm standing there, and I'm listening to these people, and I'm like...
[26:46.190 --> 26:47.010]  Wow, that's unusual.
[26:47.250 --> 26:49.150]  I actually approached the cop.
[26:49.590 --> 26:52.550]  I said... it was cold out, so I said, you want a cup of coffee or something?
[26:52.550 --> 26:57.730]  I kind of felt bad for him because he's just taking this verbal abuse from people on all four corners of the street.
[26:57.730 --> 26:59.490]  He said, no, I'm fine, thanks.
[26:59.730 --> 27:01.110]  I go, you get this all the time?
[27:01.110 --> 27:02.570]  He goes, more often than not.
[27:03.370 --> 27:07.510]  Well, I'm sure this wouldn't have happened a few weeks ago before, you know, the incident.
[27:07.810 --> 27:08.530]  Well, that's...
[27:08.530 --> 27:11.850]  It probably is a reaction against that, but still, it doesn't make it any righter.
[27:11.930 --> 27:13.010]  Yeah, it's the wrong target.
[27:13.010 --> 27:41.510]  But on the other hand, a flip side of that, I was in the village last weekend, and, you know, it doesn't take a whole lot of brains to realize when you have a city on edge, like we have here in New York right now, you don't go out and harass the people.
[27:41.970 --> 27:45.550]  You know, that's not the way to win public favor back.
[27:45.930 --> 27:51.490]  And so, obviously, people are getting more and more upset, and there's a gap that's widening.
[27:51.550 --> 27:57.770]  Yeah, but they have to kind of realize that the average beat cop isn't the kind of person who says, well, let's set up a checkpoint and bother people.
[27:57.910 --> 27:59.290]  I'm sure they weren't happy about it either.
[27:59.390 --> 28:02.110]  No, they're getting orders from up on high, as we all know.
[28:02.270 --> 28:07.550]  Well, those are the kind of places people should be directing their anger at in the form of letters or elected officials.
[28:07.550 --> 28:10.730]  But you're no longer allowed to stand on the steps of City Hall and protest.
[28:10.990 --> 28:12.030]  That's another story.
[28:12.430 --> 28:13.950]  It's unbelievable what's going on here.
[28:15.090 --> 28:19.950]  All right, well, we have to move on, but we could talk about this for hours, and I have a feeling we'll be talking about it in weeks to come.
[28:20.570 --> 28:24.330]  We have some exciting news from the world of wireless phones.
[28:24.330 --> 28:28.430]  Omnipoint has eliminated the roaming fee, and with more details on that, Bernie, what do you have?
[28:28.630 --> 28:30.790]  Oh, I was able to find some information out about it.
[28:30.830 --> 28:31.870]  Okay, what do we have here?
[28:31.930 --> 28:37.610]  This was reported in a radio communications report last week that Omnipoint has, well, a couple of things.
[28:37.710 --> 28:48.850]  They've announced something pertaining to international calling rates and something to do with no roaming and no long distance charges here in continental United States, North America, including Canada, that sort of thing.
[28:49.210 --> 28:51.870]  Here is how it works.
[28:52.410 --> 28:53.050]  Let me see.
[28:53.050 --> 28:54.770]  There's two different things I'm looking at here.
[28:55.110 --> 28:57.810]  Okay, it's limited to plans with Omnipoint.
[28:58.970 --> 29:03.090]  Not with all plans, but if you're on the 700-minute plan...
[29:03.090 --> 29:04.170]  700 minutes?
[29:04.430 --> 29:10.070]  ...which is $100 a month, then there's no roaming and no long distance.
[29:11.190 --> 29:11.750]  Okay.
[29:12.110 --> 29:20.690]  And also, if you're on the 1,200-minute plan, which is $140 a month, there's also no roaming and no long distance.
[29:20.690 --> 29:25.990]  Well, I guess we could say anything above 700, there's no roaming and no long distance.
[29:26.170 --> 29:27.870]  So the more you spend, the more you save.
[29:28.490 --> 29:29.470]  I've heard that before.
[29:29.690 --> 29:31.490]  But the less you spend, the more you lose.
[29:33.870 --> 29:34.830]  I'm not following you.
[29:34.870 --> 29:35.290]  Well, okay.
[29:35.690 --> 29:39.590]  Let's say a prepay account, for instance, which generally the people that...
[29:39.590 --> 29:39.910]  Does not apply.
[29:39.910 --> 29:41.770]  They still have to pay roaming.
[29:42.170 --> 29:42.470]  Sure.
[29:43.410 --> 29:45.210]  See, the logic of that escapes me.
[29:45.550 --> 29:49.630]  They've not eliminated it for their network, just for those two particular plans.
[29:49.870 --> 29:50.130]  Uh-huh.
[29:50.990 --> 29:58.590]  They've also come out with an even more dubious single-rate international calling program.
[29:59.530 --> 30:01.890]  And I'll quote this from Omnipoint's website.
[30:01.890 --> 30:08.790]  For the first time ever, Omnipoint offers wireless customers the ability to call more than 40 countries for a flat rate.
[30:09.250 --> 30:20.590]  Monthly subscribers may select a single country, just one, that's single, for $2.99 per month, for all included countries, that's all 40, and there's only 40 in the whole world.
[30:20.630 --> 30:21.290]  40 countries?
[30:21.470 --> 30:21.670]  Yeah.
[30:21.930 --> 30:24.290]  For $9.99 per month.
[30:25.330 --> 30:34.230]  Then, depending on the country you call, each call costs either $0.29 a minute or $0.59 a minute.
[30:34.310 --> 30:37.010]  Is this based on the population of said nation, or...?
[30:37.010 --> 30:39.610]  Um, they didn't say, but I threw a few countries at them.
[30:39.690 --> 30:41.370]  They said, which country would you like to call, sir?
[30:41.590 --> 30:44.430]  And I said, well, how about Cuba?
[30:44.810 --> 30:45.010]  Uh-oh.
[30:45.010 --> 30:47.930]  And they're like, I'm sorry, sir, Cuba is not on our list.
[30:48.470 --> 30:51.290]  And I said, well, what about Syria?
[30:51.730 --> 30:54.210]  And the guy said, I'm sorry, sir, that's not on the list either.
[30:54.290 --> 30:57.930]  I said, well, why don't you give me all the countries that aren't on this list?
[30:58.150 --> 31:00.570]  I said, there's a lot more countries than 40 on the whole planet.
[31:00.830 --> 31:02.070]  There's probably a couple of hundred.
[31:02.950 --> 31:04.930]  And he said, I'm sorry, sir, we don't have such a list.
[31:05.030 --> 31:06.390]  It's like, oh, you only have the positiveness.
[31:07.010 --> 31:10.630]  So I threw a couple others at him, like Libya, Russia...
[31:10.630 --> 31:12.670]  You're just trying to cause trouble here, aren't you?
[31:13.910 --> 31:16.330]  You know, Kikistan and...
[31:16.330 --> 31:16.850]  Iraq.
[31:17.090 --> 31:17.670]  You know, all those.
[31:17.770 --> 31:19.130]  Well, they can't even spell those ones.
[31:20.410 --> 31:21.390]  And who, he said?
[31:21.510 --> 31:22.010]  No, not really.
[31:22.010 --> 31:27.810]  But anyway, I talked to a guy named Casey Riggs, by the way, who was very helpful, but he just, like...
[31:27.810 --> 31:28.430]  Didn't know anything.
[31:28.610 --> 31:30.370]  All he could offer me was these bogus plans.
[31:30.830 --> 31:38.630]  So on top of having to spend either $3 a month for only being allowed to call one country at either $0.29 or $0.59 a minute...
[31:38.630 --> 31:41.590]  Do they tell you what you're going to be paying beforehand, or...?
[31:41.590 --> 31:44.170]  They will tell you, like, depending on which...
[31:44.170 --> 31:49.630]  You can find out from them which countries cost $0.29 a minute and which ones cost $0.59 a minute.
[31:49.630 --> 31:49.810]  Okay.
[31:50.250 --> 31:59.650]  But then again, you can only call at those fantastic rates if you're paying them either $3 a minute to only call one of those countries for the whole month, or $10 a month that you have to pay in advance.
[31:59.890 --> 32:01.450]  So there's two charges involved.
[32:01.670 --> 32:10.470]  There's the monthly fee of $3 or $10, and then there's the per minute fee of $0.29 or $0.59 per minute, depending on which country you're calling.
[32:10.730 --> 32:15.410]  Sounds like if you're not careful, you could wind up spending more with these plans than if you don't take them up on their offers.
[32:15.530 --> 32:16.570]  I got that impression, too.
[32:16.570 --> 32:19.410]  All right, Bernie, thanks for the info on that.
[32:19.610 --> 32:21.630]  It's pretty much as I expected.
[32:22.090 --> 32:28.370]  And now it's time for us to journey once again into the scary world of the future.
[32:28.370 --> 32:36.850]  That's right, we're talking about Y2K and the ominousness that awaits us in only a few short months.
[32:38.270 --> 32:43.450]  Yes, civilization will likely come to an end.
[32:43.450 --> 32:57.230]  So it's important that you get your papers in order for the next race that comes along and cleans up after us, and whatever else you need to finalize your really final things here.
[32:58.210 --> 33:10.990]  We'll be exploring the things that are happening, the latest updates in the world of Y2K, the year 2000 bug, here on Off the Hook.
[33:25.930 --> 33:29.230]  Sometimes we don't always make it into the show, all of us together.
[33:30.170 --> 33:32.770]  Bernie, did you make it into the Y2K portion of the show?
[33:33.910 --> 33:34.530]  Did I make it?
[33:34.570 --> 33:35.230]  Oh, good, you made it.
[33:35.310 --> 33:35.490]  Okay.
[33:35.690 --> 33:38.890]  See, we have our pre-Y2K problems already.
[33:39.130 --> 33:40.310]  I'm on my umbilical cord.
[33:40.430 --> 33:41.370]  All right, good, good.
[33:41.710 --> 33:42.570]  Hang on tight.
[33:42.790 --> 33:43.790]  Isaac, you made it, too.
[33:43.990 --> 33:44.750]  I'm here.
[33:44.750 --> 33:45.350]  Good, okay.
[33:48.010 --> 33:51.650]  Things aren't quite as lucky in other parts of the world as they are here.
[33:52.330 --> 34:09.430]  For instance, in the Soviet Union, the former Soviet Union, Russia, Eastern Europe, former Soviet Union states could be hit with severe shortages of energy if Russia's natural gas pipeline stops working because of the year 2000 bug, according to a CIA analyst.
[34:09.430 --> 34:18.450]  You know, if oxygen stops flowing through the air, you know, we could be hit with all kinds of problems if, you know, if that happens in 2000.
[34:18.790 --> 34:22.790]  You know, it's basically a very conditional statement there.
[34:22.910 --> 34:27.310]  Yeah, if the natural gas pipeline stops in 2000, they're going to have some problems.
[34:27.470 --> 34:29.110]  They pay people to come up with these things.
[34:29.790 --> 34:40.230]  Despite its heavy dependence on the Gazprom natural gas pipeline that were gone by Russia, the region could survive a Gazprom shutdown for about 30 days with existing inventories.
[34:41.810 --> 34:51.710]  You know, what's funny about this is that there's nothing in this article anywhere that says why they would have a problem other than if, you know, if this happens, they're really going to be screwed.
[34:54.610 --> 34:55.430]  Or how about this?
[34:55.530 --> 34:56.670]  This adds a little bit more information.
[34:58.190 --> 35:08.090]  Russia is only 20% immunized against the Millennium Bug computer problem linked to the arrival of the next century, the country's top Y2K officials said on Friday.
[35:10.270 --> 35:23.730]  Alexander Krupnov told Echo Moscow Radio that only the central bank and the giant state savings bank, Sbib Bank, sorry if I pronounced that wrong, were more or less fully prepared for the date change in 2000.
[35:25.090 --> 35:26.810]  More or less fully prepared.
[35:28.270 --> 35:29.170]  More or less, yeah.
[35:29.430 --> 35:31.090]  I mean, you define that.
[35:31.330 --> 35:32.290]  More or less fully, okay.
[35:32.490 --> 35:32.590]  Yeah.
[35:33.590 --> 35:44.650]  Krupnov, head of the State Communications Committee overseeing state preparations for the next century, estimates Russia must spend $2 to $3 billion to prepare its computer and information systems in time.
[35:46.950 --> 35:48.110]  Where are they going to get this money?
[35:48.230 --> 35:48.790]  I don't know.
[35:48.990 --> 35:49.450]  I don't know.
[35:49.650 --> 35:51.670]  I have a bet they're going to get it from the United States.
[35:51.670 --> 35:52.590]  You think so?
[35:52.730 --> 35:54.430]  You think they'd actually have the gall to do that?
[35:54.550 --> 35:55.410]  They've already asked.
[35:55.630 --> 35:55.890]  Really?
[35:56.110 --> 35:56.350]  Yes.
[35:56.990 --> 35:57.470]  Wow.
[35:57.790 --> 36:06.830]  On Tuesday, the Russian military's top Y2K official, General Vladimir Vyorkin, admitted that the armed forces face serious problems tackling the Y2K issue.
[36:07.790 --> 36:10.830]  Actually, their armed forces face serious problems tackling any issue.
[36:11.130 --> 36:12.970]  I mean, have you kept up with the news recently?
[36:13.090 --> 36:16.950]  Yeah, it's like, you know, the rising of the sun is a challenge.
[36:17.810 --> 36:22.150]  Anyway, he denied that the Millennium bug could accidentally trigger a nuclear missile launch.
[36:22.890 --> 36:36.570]  However, the military, in recent checks of its conventional defense systems, found that 74 of the 134 computers inspected would function irregularly or could shut down once the clock's taken to 2000.
[36:37.150 --> 36:43.050]  My question is, okay, if they do shut down, can you just turn them back on and then you're cool for another 100 years?
[36:43.990 --> 36:46.510]  You know, that's a valid question.
[36:46.590 --> 36:47.950]  I hope they can't turn them back on.
[36:48.190 --> 36:49.810]  Yeah, there's that point, too.
[36:50.830 --> 36:57.730]  Back here in the United States, state officials are ready to move government operations into the bunker at year's end.
[36:58.050 --> 37:01.050]  This is in Dayton, Ohio, according to the Dayton Daily News.
[37:01.210 --> 37:04.350]  Just in case the Y2K computer problem turns serious.
[37:05.470 --> 37:14.970]  Ohio's Emergency Operations Center is in a $13 million concrete structure eight miles northwest of downtown Columbus.
[37:15.330 --> 37:24.490]  Officials plan to start staffing the bunker 12 hours a day on December 29th and 24 hours a day from December 31st until no longer necessary.
[37:25.170 --> 37:31.570]  Should a power plant or water utility fail, relief efforts can be coordinated from 12 feet underground.
[37:32.290 --> 37:33.790]  That doesn't sound very nice.
[37:33.790 --> 37:37.670]  Nobody knows whether essential services will be disrupted January 1st, 2000.
[37:38.110 --> 37:43.850]  Predictions about the Y2K bug range from minor hangups to major meltdowns.
[37:43.970 --> 37:54.050]  The executive director of the Ohio Emergency Management Agency is James Williams, a retired two-star Army National Guard general who has spent 32 years at the agency.
[37:55.230 --> 37:56.610]  Mr. Williams is no doomsayer.
[37:56.710 --> 37:58.250]  He just wants the state to be ready.
[38:00.050 --> 38:02.290]  This is not a panic situation, he said.
[38:02.290 --> 38:06.310]  If nothing happens, we can go home and watch football.
[38:13.070 --> 38:20.270]  And just in case you're wondering, the governor and his cabinet have a room with a television monitor, so even if things aren't okay, they can watch football.
[38:20.270 --> 38:21.950]  Yeah, that's the important thing.
[38:22.930 --> 38:23.730]  All right.
[38:24.130 --> 38:25.710]  And, uh...
[38:25.710 --> 38:28.130]  Well, we have this from out of Denver, the Denver Post.
[38:29.690 --> 38:37.390]  When clocks chime the new year, the monkeys, fish, birds, bats, and other critters at the Denver Zoo could become just as vulnerable to any Y2K problem as people.
[38:37.390 --> 38:45.150]  It's highly unlikely a computer-related power failure would pop open the gates at the animal compound in northeast Denver, unleashing birds and beasts across the city.
[38:45.530 --> 38:51.230]  The zoo's network of animal enclosures is virtually impenetrable, and many of the gates are operated manually, not electronically.
[38:52.230 --> 38:58.750]  Still, zoo keepers do have concerns about the so-called Millennium Bug running wild inside their computers and power systems.
[38:59.750 --> 39:04.630]  We're not worried about the elevators, said Brian Kleppinger, executive vice president of the zoo.
[39:04.790 --> 39:07.230]  We're worried about the health and welfare of the animals.
[39:10.670 --> 39:11.370]  You know what?
[39:11.650 --> 39:17.390]  Again, all these people are worrying, but, uh, what are they worrying about?
[39:17.390 --> 39:25.310]  You know, they're worried about something failing and people not getting medicine and doors not closing and things like that, but no specifics.
[39:27.010 --> 39:30.170]  You guys heard anything specifically that we need to be concerned about?
[39:30.770 --> 39:38.090]  Um, well, uh, somebody passed a little information on to me regarding, uh, two, two things regarding Russian defense.
[39:38.830 --> 39:51.150]  Uh, first, that, uh, supposedly a station is going to be set up outside, or rather in Colorado Springs, uh, for a joint U.S.
[39:51.350 --> 40:01.370]  and former Soviet, uh, command center, so to speak, uh, in order to monitor, uh, interesting possibilities from Y2K.
[40:01.690 --> 40:04.510]  So basically, you can have a bunch of Russian generals and a bunch of U.S.
[40:04.870 --> 40:11.450]  generals looking at NORAD repeater data in Colorado Springs, and they go, oh, looky there, uh, one of the missiles launched.
[40:11.710 --> 40:11.810]  Hmm.
[40:12.930 --> 40:15.330]  Well, let's duck for cover.
[40:15.730 --> 40:31.030]  So, uh, that, it, it, I have no idea what their, their actual intent for that is, but, uh, I think it's more of a reassuring pat on the back for the Russians to say, okay, well, you know, we're going to help you out and watch your own defenses, because it seems that you can't do it on your own.
[40:31.590 --> 40:33.110]  Uh, children.
[40:33.310 --> 40:35.170]  We have to treat the rest of the world like children.
[40:35.430 --> 40:40.390]  Well, I think in honor of, uh, in honor of Stanley Kubrick, we should all watch, uh, Dr. Strangelove again to prepare for this.
[40:40.570 --> 40:41.390]  That is a good idea.
[40:41.610 --> 40:42.730]  That is a very good idea, in fact.
[40:43.550 --> 40:50.190]  Let's, uh, go to the phones, as we have a full switchboard all lit up here and, uh, see if listeners have any concerns.
[40:50.490 --> 40:58.530]  If you're panicking, you know, if you feel you need a hand to hold, you can call us, and we'll probably ridicule you or say something that'll make you feel worse.
[40:58.830 --> 41:01.750]  But, uh, you can think back on the time before you called us and feel better.
[41:02.670 --> 41:05.930]  And, um, our number is 212-209-2900.
[41:06.110 --> 41:09.310]  Supposedly one day, even if you are in 212, you'll have to dial the 212.
[41:09.550 --> 41:10.850]  And boy, is that going to cause fun.
[41:11.090 --> 41:12.730]  And that's got nothing to do with Y2K.
[41:12.910 --> 41:17.450]  That's got to do with just plain old human stupidity, which I guess Y2K is an extension of, too.
[41:18.270 --> 41:18.610]  All right.
[41:18.690 --> 41:21.670]  Let's, uh, should we even bother picking a number?
[41:21.810 --> 41:23.310]  I mean, they're probably all the same person here.
[41:23.590 --> 41:24.430]  I'm going to go over here.
[41:24.710 --> 41:25.090]  All right.
[41:25.670 --> 41:25.890]  All right.
[41:25.910 --> 41:26.410]  Let's try this one.
[41:26.490 --> 41:26.730]  Good evening.
[41:26.850 --> 41:27.250]  You're on the air.
[41:27.250 --> 41:28.490]  Hey, good evening.
[41:28.610 --> 41:28.910]  How are you doing?
[41:29.250 --> 41:29.890]  How are you doing?
[41:30.070 --> 41:32.430]  From that Demographic Entertainment Network.
[41:32.730 --> 41:33.270]  Ah, great.
[41:33.630 --> 41:33.790]  Yeah.
[41:33.970 --> 41:37.950]  So, uh, Serena wanted me to tell you that she had a good time at the meeting.
[41:38.110 --> 41:39.170]  This is Serena from MTV.
[41:39.570 --> 41:39.570]  Yeah.
[41:39.570 --> 41:40.950]  The MTV news person.
[41:41.410 --> 41:41.810]  Yeah.
[41:41.830 --> 41:43.170]  And she's working on the script.
[41:43.490 --> 41:46.350]  You know, she was working on the script when I popped into her office today.
[41:46.530 --> 41:46.770]  Uh-huh.
[41:46.870 --> 41:48.210]  She can't wait to do the story.
[41:48.630 --> 41:52.650]  And I showed her my 2600, you know, Michelangelo shirt.
[41:52.750 --> 41:55.730]  And I said, you know, we should get you one for the news story.
[41:56.230 --> 41:57.630]  And she said, yeah, that'd probably be good.
[41:58.230 --> 42:03.950]  Now, to update the listeners who might not know what's going on, this has to do with MTV expressing an interest in the Kevin Mitnick story.
[42:04.130 --> 42:04.130]  Yeah.
[42:04.130 --> 42:05.150]  It's a free Kevin story.
[42:05.330 --> 42:05.510]  Okay.
[42:05.590 --> 42:10.570]  So I thought it'd be good for her to wear a T-shirt that says either 2600 or free Kevin or something.
[42:10.730 --> 42:10.930]  Uh-huh.
[42:11.490 --> 42:14.650]  Well, we'll be happy to pass them along if that's required.
[42:14.830 --> 42:21.490]  If you want, you know what I'll do, I'll email you the address where you can send the correspondence to us and then I'll get it right to her.
[42:21.970 --> 42:22.370]  Okay.
[42:22.510 --> 42:24.330]  And then, uh, that's pretty much it.
[42:24.430 --> 42:26.470]  We can't wait till the trial happens, you know?
[42:26.570 --> 42:28.490]  And she's even expressing an interest.
[42:28.690 --> 42:30.730]  She might even fly out to DEFCON with us.
[42:31.090 --> 42:31.490]  Great.
[42:31.670 --> 42:32.090]  Well, uh...
[42:32.090 --> 42:34.330]  That'll be, uh, something great to cover, you know?
[42:34.510 --> 42:35.290]  I mean...
[42:35.290 --> 42:36.910]  The trial is the most important thing.
[42:41.970 --> 42:47.770]  I don't think we ever said the word demographic on this show, but now we said it, uh, three times, so I think it definitely expired for the rest of the day.
[42:47.790 --> 42:49.730]  I'm glad it's not the Pee Wee Herman word of the day.
[42:49.910 --> 42:50.070]  Yeah.
[42:50.290 --> 42:52.250]  Otherwise, we'd all be screaming right about now, so...
[42:52.250 --> 42:54.870]  Well, some of us are screaming in our heads, but, uh...
[42:54.870 --> 42:55.410]  All right.
[42:55.570 --> 42:55.970]  Thanks for calling.
[42:56.010 --> 42:56.350]  I'll talk to you guys soon.
[42:56.470 --> 42:56.630]  Bye.
[42:56.630 --> 42:56.850]  Take care.
[42:57.170 --> 42:58.030]  That was this meeting?
[42:58.570 --> 42:59.230]  That was this meeting.
[42:59.330 --> 43:01.090]  Yeah, you were kind of staring at the wall the whole meeting.
[43:01.210 --> 43:01.330]  I don't know.
[43:01.370 --> 43:02.030]  You didn't see anything.
[43:02.190 --> 43:03.390]  You didn't see the mayor come in, did you?
[43:04.010 --> 43:04.690]  The mayor came in?
[43:04.710 --> 43:05.650]  He tried to kick us out.
[43:05.770 --> 43:06.130]  He did?
[43:06.990 --> 43:07.710]  Just never learns.
[43:07.930 --> 43:08.810]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[43:10.010 --> 43:10.490]  Hello there.
[43:10.570 --> 43:11.170]  Yeah, speak up.
[43:11.310 --> 43:11.530]  Good luck.
[43:11.970 --> 43:12.750]  Uh, Porkchop here.
[43:13.090 --> 43:13.570]  How you doing?
[43:14.070 --> 43:14.250]  All right.
[43:14.330 --> 43:14.670]  Hey, Porkchop?
[43:15.130 --> 43:15.310]  Yep.
[43:15.790 --> 43:16.170]  Real one.
[43:16.890 --> 43:18.190]  Uh, found your conference.
[43:18.670 --> 43:19.770]  You found the conference.
[43:19.890 --> 43:21.550]  Okay, that was, that was pretty, pretty good.
[43:22.150 --> 43:24.450]  Yeah, that's, uh, you, you deserve two congratulations.
[43:24.770 --> 43:26.310]  One for finding, and two for getting through.
[43:26.810 --> 43:27.170]  Yeah.
[43:27.410 --> 43:27.930]  That's amazing.
[43:28.150 --> 43:28.690]  Pretty amazing.
[43:28.790 --> 43:30.610]  Okay, so give us the information that we require.
[43:30.830 --> 43:31.310]  All right.
[43:31.610 --> 43:34.550]  Uh, it seems to be the conference in Washington, D.C.
[43:34.610 --> 43:36.410]  from March 30th to April 1st.
[43:36.490 --> 43:36.650]  Ah.
[43:36.810 --> 43:39.030]  It's called the Sea Aerospace 1999.
[43:40.550 --> 43:41.950]  The URL is...
[43:43.590 --> 43:49.710]  www.navyleague.org slash sas underscore virtual dot htm.
[43:50.730 --> 43:51.170]  Wow.
[43:51.330 --> 43:52.990]  That's an ugly URL if you ask me.
[43:53.170 --> 43:53.690]  Yeah, it is.
[43:53.990 --> 43:56.870]  Uh, so, uh, is it true that it's free to the general public?
[43:57.050 --> 43:58.310]  It seems to be that way.
[43:58.530 --> 43:58.790]  Uh-huh.
[43:59.330 --> 44:03.810]  Um, as a matter of fact, let me, uh, fire up the old browser there.
[44:03.930 --> 44:05.210]  And, and the location is where?
[44:05.470 --> 44:09.670]  Uh, it's in a, um, in a, uh, hotel in Washington, D.C.
[44:09.790 --> 44:09.990]  Okay.
[44:10.170 --> 44:10.590]  All right, great.
[44:11.070 --> 44:12.670]  Well, it's not necessarily general public.
[44:12.870 --> 44:16.770]  I mean, it's people who have an interest and, you know, would get something out of it.
[44:16.850 --> 44:19.650]  Well, I imagine the general public only goes where they're interested in going.
[44:19.770 --> 44:20.110]  Well...
[44:20.110 --> 44:23.090]  They don't just show up in places where they're not, they're not any interest.
[44:24.150 --> 44:24.470]  Well, you know...
[44:24.470 --> 44:25.930]  We are members of the general public.
[44:26.110 --> 44:26.870]  You might as well get used to that.
[44:27.130 --> 44:28.150]  Well, I, I, I...
[44:28.150 --> 44:28.710]  Well, never mind.
[44:28.970 --> 44:30.250]  Maybe they mean it's just free to generals.
[44:31.250 --> 44:33.010]  Oh, the general public.
[44:33.210 --> 44:34.550]  Now, that's an interesting twist there.
[44:35.150 --> 44:35.470]  No, no, no.
[44:35.470 --> 44:35.870]  What about the Admiral?
[44:36.070 --> 44:36.810]  Do you have anything else for us?
[44:36.850 --> 44:37.510]  Because we have to move on.
[44:37.810 --> 44:40.150]  Um, we have, uh, actually, we don't have.
[44:40.270 --> 44:42.930]  We have about 125 listeners right now.
[44:43.470 --> 44:44.490]  Um, that's sort of interesting.
[44:44.990 --> 44:45.310]  And...
[44:45.310 --> 44:46.130]  On, on Real Audio.
[44:46.310 --> 44:47.710]  On Real Audio and MP3.
[44:48.330 --> 44:48.730]  Great.
[44:49.630 --> 44:54.290]  And I'm trying to find the, uh, more information on that, and it doesn't look like this.
[44:54.350 --> 44:57.630]  Okay, if you find something, you can email me at the special address.
[44:58.030 --> 44:59.970]  Uh, actually, none of the special addresses work.
[45:00.290 --> 45:01.010]  It doesn't work?
[45:01.170 --> 45:01.470]  Because we write them both.
[45:01.690 --> 45:02.630]  What do you mean it doesn't work?
[45:02.710 --> 45:03.130]  It doesn't work.
[45:03.190 --> 45:07.450]  You no longer, uh, subscribe to SMS on, uh, PCS.
[45:07.630 --> 45:09.110]  I can't get messages anymore?
[45:09.270 --> 45:09.690]  Since when?
[45:09.770 --> 45:11.310]  When I got, uh, message not sent.
[45:11.430 --> 45:17.390]  The message cannot be submitted for delivery because the message recipient does not subscribe to the Sprint PCS text messaging service.
[45:17.790 --> 45:19.750]  Well, no, Sprint PCS, forget them.
[45:19.830 --> 45:21.650]  They, they, they started charging for it.
[45:21.810 --> 45:23.710]  They started charging every time you receive a message.
[45:23.890 --> 45:27.070]  So, you know, obviously I didn't sign up for that, but Omnipoint will still work.
[45:27.450 --> 45:29.610]  Uh, well, if you didn't get it, then it, no, it doesn't.
[45:30.250 --> 45:31.150]  Let's see if I got it.
[45:31.370 --> 45:32.030]  Uh, actually, you know what?
[45:32.030 --> 45:32.470]  I did get it.
[45:32.750 --> 45:32.950]  Oh.
[45:33.150 --> 45:34.210]  Yeah, it just didn't beep.
[45:34.570 --> 45:35.690]  Got to turn my beep off.
[45:36.590 --> 45:38.950]  Uh, found the conference in D.C.
[45:39.150 --> 45:42.490]  March 30th to April C air space night.
[45:42.570 --> 45:42.690]  Okay.
[45:42.810 --> 45:43.690]  And then give the URL again.
[45:44.750 --> 45:46.090]  So yes, you can email me.
[45:46.710 --> 45:47.030]  Okay, good.
[45:47.110 --> 45:47.290]  All right.
[45:47.410 --> 45:47.830]  Thanks for calling.
[45:48.050 --> 45:48.130]  Yep.
[45:48.450 --> 45:48.770]  Take care.
[45:49.330 --> 45:50.630]  Let's, uh, go over here.
[45:50.770 --> 45:51.190]  Good evening.
[45:51.410 --> 45:51.850]  You're on the air.
[45:52.790 --> 45:53.190]  Hi.
[45:53.470 --> 46:01.330]  Um, I, um, was wondering actually if you might, if you got onto that show that was on Saturday in Utah.
[46:02.130 --> 46:04.310]  Uh, the, actually, I think it was Sunday, wasn't it?
[46:04.550 --> 46:04.950]  Sunday.
[46:05.150 --> 46:07.770]  Yeah, no, I heard the show, but I wasn't actually on it myself.
[46:08.430 --> 46:09.090]  Uh, carry though.
[46:09.310 --> 46:17.290]  The, uh, the, the web person for, um, for the Kevin Mitnick site was on it, as well as Kevin's lawyers and, um, a couple other people called in as well.
[46:17.430 --> 46:18.750]  So actually I thought it was a pretty good show.
[46:19.310 --> 46:19.710]  Yeah.
[46:20.070 --> 46:23.790]  Um, I only caught a very little bit of it while I was on hold with them.
[46:23.990 --> 46:24.290]  Uh-huh.
[46:24.790 --> 46:25.050]  So.
[46:25.670 --> 46:31.530]  Well, it's good that other radio shows are actually talking about the Kevin Mitnick case, you know, it's, it's a positive thing.
[46:31.990 --> 46:37.670]  And from looking at the website for it, they're, they will have a real audio of the show.
[46:37.890 --> 46:38.150]  Uh-huh.
[46:38.830 --> 46:40.090]  Do you have their, their website handy?
[46:41.170 --> 46:43.570]  Um, no, I don't, unfortunately.
[46:44.130 --> 46:44.330]  Um.
[46:44.330 --> 46:44.450]  Okay.
[46:44.470 --> 46:48.550]  I know the station is KBER, K-B-E-R, I think in Salt Lake City or somewhere around there.
[46:48.730 --> 46:51.370]  So if you, if you look around on the, on the net, you should be able to find them.
[46:52.330 --> 46:57.410]  I believe it's Clyde Wise or something like that, but I don't remember the exact spelling.
[46:57.930 --> 46:58.290]  Okay.
[46:58.430 --> 46:59.890]  Well, thanks, uh, for reminding us anyway.
[47:00.150 --> 47:01.430]  Let's move on to another phone call.
[47:01.550 --> 47:02.310]  Let's go over here.
[47:02.730 --> 47:03.150]  Good evening.
[47:03.250 --> 47:03.650]  You're on the air.
[47:03.730 --> 47:04.750]  How are you doing?
[47:04.830 --> 47:09.390]  I don't know if I can mention that the cellular phone still charges you when I call the radio station.
[47:09.450 --> 47:17.470]  In other words, when I, when I let it ring, and if I talk to you for like a couple of seconds, it'll still charge me for that 20 minutes or 10 minutes.
[47:17.550 --> 47:19.450]  Only, only a cellular phone or any phone?
[47:19.590 --> 47:21.330]  What, no, only my cellular phone.
[47:21.390 --> 47:22.650]  Or what, what service do you use?
[47:22.690 --> 47:25.810]  I use Bell Atlantic Mobile in which I'm changing to Sprint.
[47:25.990 --> 47:26.270]  Okay.
[47:26.330 --> 47:31.410]  Because I think that might be something inherently wrong with their system that, you know, I don't think there's anything on our end that's doing that.
[47:31.470 --> 47:33.470]  Well, I heard that some people are getting short cuts.
[47:33.530 --> 47:37.490]  When I called Bell Atlantic Mobile about that, they said, well, we can't credit you because you made the call.
[47:37.690 --> 47:41.270]  And I'm trying to tell them that they didn't answer and they sort of don't believe.
[47:41.430 --> 47:41.550]  Yeah.
[47:41.590 --> 47:44.110]  You see, you have to deal with phone companies, stupidity like that.
[47:44.250 --> 47:44.390]  Right.
[47:44.510 --> 47:52.750]  And that's, that's, um, you told me something interesting at the meeting, which actually I'd like you to, uh, to, um, spread to the rest of the world, uh, about, uh, about Star 5-7.
[47:53.370 --> 47:53.930]  Star 5-7.
[47:54.030 --> 47:54.350]  Oh yeah.
[47:54.410 --> 47:58.750]  You mean the, um, the Star 5-7 that I mentioned last week where they do not charge you?
[47:59.170 --> 48:00.230]  Now, is that really true?
[48:00.350 --> 48:01.990]  Star 5-7 is not going to charge anymore?
[48:02.210 --> 48:02.850]  Uh, that's right.
[48:03.930 --> 48:04.490]  Sorry, Bernie?
[48:04.990 --> 48:05.790]  Call Trace.
[48:05.970 --> 48:06.530]  Yes, call Trace.
[48:06.790 --> 48:06.790]  Right.
[48:06.790 --> 48:11.270]  In other words, they want to make it so that in case you're getting a harassing phone call, they don't want you to pay for it.
[48:11.310 --> 48:14.550]  In other words, if you're getting threatening calls and things like that.
[48:15.070 --> 48:16.290]  Bernie, does that make sense to you?
[48:16.890 --> 48:18.110]  Well, it certainly makes sense.
[48:18.250 --> 48:25.410]  As far as I know, they've been, ever since it's been around for the past eight or nine years here in Pennsylvania, it's been a buck, a dollar every time they call it.
[48:25.650 --> 48:26.510]  $1.50 here, I think.
[48:26.670 --> 48:28.710]  It's just like the touchstone fee that they don't do anymore.
[48:29.230 --> 48:35.370]  Well, it's a little different than that because they, they've basically used harassing phone calls as revenue generators by, by doing this kind of thing.
[48:35.990 --> 48:41.190]  Right, but, well, uh, remember, they're probably using this terrorist thing, just like, you know, terrorist threat.
[48:41.310 --> 48:46.630]  I, I point, uh, uh, a laser thing at you or, or a thing and say, bang, it's a terrorist threat.
[48:47.470 --> 48:50.250]  I think this country is getting on the terrorist kick now.
[48:50.410 --> 48:52.090]  It's like, you don't hear about crime anymore.
[48:52.270 --> 48:53.110]  It's now terrorists.
[48:53.110 --> 48:56.310]  Well, crime is down, and terrorism is down a lot, too.
[48:56.470 --> 48:58.250]  Yeah, but now we have to have a new thing to talk about.
[48:58.750 --> 48:59.030]  Mm-hmm.
[48:59.790 --> 49:00.670]  Well, it's not a new thing.
[49:00.750 --> 49:03.710]  It's been around for quite a while, but yeah, it's definitely something that we seem obsessed with.
[49:04.070 --> 49:04.690]  Thanks for the call.
[49:04.750 --> 49:06.870]  Let's move on to, uh, another one over here.
[49:06.990 --> 49:07.270]  Good evening.
[49:07.350 --> 49:07.770]  You're on the air.
[49:08.110 --> 49:08.370]  Hi.
[49:08.810 --> 49:14.770]  Um, I was listening off and on to your show, and I'm actually, I was supposed to go to this conference in Washington, D.C.
[49:14.830 --> 49:16.190]  today with Dr. Helen Caldicott.
[49:16.370 --> 49:16.670]  Uh-huh.
[49:17.390 --> 49:23.610]  Do you know about the conference she was having at Physicians for Ethical something or other, but anyway, it was on Y2K?
[49:23.950 --> 49:24.290]  Uh-huh.
[49:24.450 --> 49:26.750]  Do you know what I'm talking about?
[49:26.830 --> 49:30.750]  I don't know the specific, I know the people, obviously, but I don't know the specific, uh, conference.
[49:30.990 --> 49:39.030]  Well, I'll tell you, you know, first of all, I listen to your show involuntarily, and I never know what the hell you're talking about, because, uh... Don't worry, we don't either.
[49:39.030 --> 49:39.510]  Okay.
[49:40.150 --> 49:47.910]  But I am really, really scared about Y2K, especially after listening to, um, Helen Caldicott speak about it on WBII.
[49:48.090 --> 50:01.250]  I absolutely went into panic mode, because it was so frightening when she was talking about missiles, uh, being launched from, uh, the Soviet Union to the United States, uh, accidentally, and then nuclear meltdowns, and then the last thing she said, you know,
[50:01.310 --> 50:06.130]  before she signed off was, you know, find yourself a warm climate in a third world country.
[50:06.130 --> 50:18.170]  Well, you see, I, I respect Dr. Caldicott immensely, um, and I think the message that we should get out of what she is saying here is that this is a situation that we have been in ever since the arms race began.
[50:18.650 --> 50:20.350]  Something like this could happen at any time.
[50:20.770 --> 50:30.490]  What Y2K emphasizes is that we are so dependent on computers and technology that a slight slip up of any sort could result in catastrophe.
[50:30.910 --> 50:35.550]  Now, whether or not Y2K is a realistic scenario is really open to interpretation.
[50:36.130 --> 50:37.710]  But the threat is always there.
[50:37.990 --> 50:39.070]  Computers can always fail.
[50:39.250 --> 50:40.330]  It doesn't have to be Y2K.
[50:40.430 --> 50:42.690]  Y2K is something that, you know, we know it's coming.
[50:42.810 --> 50:43.590]  We know the date.
[50:43.710 --> 50:45.010]  We know that things are going to change.
[50:45.130 --> 50:47.530]  And maybe, you know, something will, will, will get messed up somewhere.
[50:47.970 --> 50:51.010]  But, uh, the real uncertainty is every day.
[50:51.310 --> 50:52.750]  And, and that's what I'm scared of.
[50:52.870 --> 50:53.090]  Really?
[50:53.210 --> 50:53.810]  Well, I don't know.
[50:53.870 --> 50:57.430]  I mean, I went to, I went to listen to, uh, Michio Kaku speak.
[50:57.430 --> 51:00.290]  And there was another speaker there, another scientist at BAI.
[51:00.450 --> 51:06.750]  And, you know, what's so frustrating for just the average person is these two scientists were completely on opposite sides.
[51:06.750 --> 51:08.130]  So you don't know who to listen to.
[51:08.390 --> 51:10.470]  And I take it very, very seriously.
[51:10.510 --> 51:14.690]  Because to be honest with you, you know, I cannot believe who's running the show here.
[51:14.770 --> 51:19.610]  These are men with Harvard degrees that have no, absolutely zero common sense.
[51:19.610 --> 51:21.550]  Because they knew this was going to happen.
[51:21.810 --> 51:23.370]  And they waited to the last minute.
[51:23.570 --> 51:25.070]  And it's just like with everything else.
[51:25.210 --> 51:30.630]  Nobody thinks, even though you have all these scientists and degrees, nobody thinks about the common sense end of it all.
[51:30.710 --> 51:33.770]  And that is that, you know, we have no place to put nuclear waste.
[51:33.850 --> 51:35.810]  We shouldn't have nuclear power plants.
[51:35.910 --> 51:38.230]  And the same thing with this ridiculous computer thing.
[51:38.350 --> 51:43.410]  And, you know, I, I guess that one of the guys said, well, you go through this every day, just like you're saying.
[51:43.610 --> 51:48.810]  But Michio Kaku said, well, you do go through it every day, but not all at the same time.
[51:48.810 --> 51:50.090]  Like, what's going to happen here?
[51:50.210 --> 51:53.210]  And I really don't care about my money or anything else like that.
[51:53.290 --> 52:11.290]  But what I care about is that if there happens to be an accidental nuclear meltdown, which is what Dr. Caldercott was speaking about, and Michio Kaku also said we had two also already happened in Sweden accidentally, that, you know, like, I just don't want to be here in New York before I go and spend all this money.
[52:11.330 --> 52:14.610]  And the funny thing is, you won't, you can't believe how serious people are taking it.
[52:14.610 --> 52:18.350]  And I went to the travel agent to ask her about going to New Zealand.
[52:18.350 --> 52:21.550]  And they're like, they're so packed up with people leaving.
[52:21.750 --> 52:22.590]  And that was the other thing.
[52:22.690 --> 52:23.110]  I'm not sure.
[52:23.190 --> 52:25.410]  I guess New Zealand doesn't have any nuclear power plants.
[52:25.550 --> 52:32.470]  Again, people are making a ton of money off of Y2K, including travel agents and people who sell condensed peanut butter or whatever.
[52:32.750 --> 52:32.930]  Yeah.
[52:33.430 --> 52:33.810]  And...
[52:33.810 --> 52:34.650]  Well, are you going to be here?
[52:34.850 --> 52:35.910]  Yeah, I'm not going...
[52:35.910 --> 52:38.630]  I mean, if I decide to go somewhere, it'll be just because I feel like going somewhere.
[52:38.710 --> 52:40.610]  But I'm not going to do something because...
[52:40.610 --> 52:41.790]  I'll watch the mayhem.
[52:41.910 --> 52:46.270]  And if anything, there's going to be all kinds of social unrest because people are panicking.
[52:46.830 --> 52:47.270]  That's...
[52:47.270 --> 52:47.610]  Yeah, okay.
[52:47.690 --> 52:48.370]  That's something.
[52:48.510 --> 52:49.810]  But that's not based on the computers.
[52:49.810 --> 52:53.110]  That's based on human beings doing, you know, crazy things.
[52:53.230 --> 53:00.250]  I guess my feeling was that when I see scientists like Dr. Caldicott get panic-stricken like that, then I start to really panic myself.
[53:00.250 --> 53:09.710]  Because if she's upset and this is what she does for a living, then I think somebody like me who, you know, doesn't know too much about it, at least, you know, listen up.
[53:09.710 --> 53:17.030]  But she's been saying these things, these things to get you to wake up about nuclear power and the arms race for decades.
[53:17.630 --> 53:22.570]  And, yeah, Y2K is just another symptom of this, but the threat is always there.
[53:22.790 --> 53:23.130]  Right.
[53:23.270 --> 53:32.430]  Well, I guess her feeling was that, you know, if all of the nuclear power plants start to melt down all at the same time, then we're really not going to be able to do anything about it.
[53:32.570 --> 53:35.130]  It's just, you know, it's just all going to happen at one time.
[53:35.130 --> 53:39.150]  You know, what worries me more than Y2K is 2000 coming.
[53:39.470 --> 53:45.970]  You know, January 1st, 2000 coming, nothing, if anything, you know, a little bit happening maybe, but probably not very much.
[53:46.090 --> 53:48.130]  And everybody's saying, hey, we're safe.
[53:48.290 --> 53:50.210]  And the thing is, we're never really safe.
[53:50.370 --> 53:51.410]  Well, what do you think we should do?
[53:51.470 --> 53:52.530]  I mean, I don't know.
[53:52.850 --> 53:55.150]  I think life was fine without computers.
[53:55.370 --> 53:59.650]  I mean, I don't understand why we have to be so into all this junk.
[53:59.830 --> 54:01.730]  Well, you know, computers are great.
[54:01.830 --> 54:02.750]  Computers are a lot of fun.
[54:02.750 --> 54:10.250]  But if you let your life be run by them and you have no way out if something goes wrong, you're asking for a disaster.
[54:10.390 --> 54:17.010]  Ask anybody who's lost their life's work on a hard drive that failed and didn't keep any backups.
[54:17.290 --> 54:19.790]  You know, that's the kind of mentality we're dealing with.
[54:20.010 --> 54:31.770]  People who entrust very, I don't know, very complicated bits of technology to just computers and they override the human element.
[54:32.690 --> 54:34.090]  That's asking for a lot of trouble.
[54:34.210 --> 54:37.270]  And it's asking for trouble for people that, you know, you're supposed to be protecting.
[54:37.510 --> 54:40.370]  I think with all this technology, we're very comfortable.
[54:40.370 --> 54:43.170]  But it's only taken 200 years to completely destroy the planet.
[54:43.370 --> 54:48.090]  So, you know, probably be better off in not such warm apartments and not driving cars.
[54:48.090 --> 54:54.550]  You know, I would have liked to live a little longer, but they're telling me that we have to have global warming and all this other crap.
[54:54.770 --> 54:56.270]  And I'm really concerned about it.
[54:56.430 --> 55:01.310]  I keep telling my mom and dad, you know, I mean, it was their generation that really got to enjoy this stuff.
[55:01.350 --> 55:08.050]  But it's my generation that's going to be like cut in the middle of it because, you know, we really don't have a choice about it.
[55:08.050 --> 55:10.110]  Well, I'll let you go back to your show.
[55:10.270 --> 55:13.550]  I'll keep listening and try to figure out what computers do, actually.
[55:13.790 --> 55:13.950]  Okay.
[55:13.950 --> 55:17.150]  I have one that I dust off every week, but I have no idea of how it works.
[55:17.430 --> 55:19.790]  Well, thanks very much for calling, for raising the issues.
[55:19.970 --> 55:20.010]  Okay.
[55:20.010 --> 55:20.190]  Bye-bye.
[55:20.490 --> 55:20.750]  Okay.
[55:21.210 --> 55:30.910]  And that's one very important thing, I think, if people actually start thinking about this, you know, as a result of the Y2K panic on the horizon.
[55:30.910 --> 55:41.530]  If they start thinking about the danger that we are in, that we are always in because of technology, because of blind adherence to certain things, then maybe we've gotten somewhere.
[55:41.710 --> 55:46.030]  Well, yeah, there can be a lot of really good outcomes from this coming incident.
[55:47.730 --> 55:53.530]  I actually did an interview for somebody where they asked me to try and scare people to death.
[55:53.770 --> 56:01.350]  And, you know, I gladly complied talking about, you know, nuclear meltdowns and missile launches and things like that.
[56:01.510 --> 56:03.950]  Personally, I don't think they're the most likely scenario.
[56:03.950 --> 56:10.670]  But within the hazy realm of possibility, the average person should really just prepare.
[56:12.150 --> 56:14.590]  Red Cross said prepare as though it was for a hurricane.
[56:15.050 --> 56:20.790]  Well, you know, you get three days or a week's worth of food or anything like that, and you should be pretty well set.
[56:21.350 --> 56:23.170]  Well, you should do that all the time, I think.
[56:24.050 --> 56:25.210]  But we're out of time.
[56:25.350 --> 56:29.250]  So we're going to get our week's worth of food and retreat back into the cave.
[56:30.050 --> 56:31.950]  Bernie, I want to thank you very much for joining us as well.
[56:32.150 --> 56:33.050]  I have a brief announcement.
[56:33.050 --> 56:33.670]  Very quick.
[56:34.490 --> 56:42.330]  This coming weekend, Friday and Saturday, is the North American Shortwave Listeners Festival.
[56:42.630 --> 56:50.210]  I have a telephone number at the hotel in Culp'sville, Pennsylvania, 215-368-3800.
[56:50.210 --> 56:55.150]  If you need any information, you can email me, bernies at 2600.com.
[56:55.150 --> 56:59.750]  Basically, it's an annual gathering of AM, shortwave, and FM radio pirates.
[56:59.970 --> 57:03.150]  And it's a lot of very interesting people and lots to learn.
[57:03.490 --> 57:04.430]  Okay, thanks very much.
[57:04.690 --> 57:07.450]  And one final closing message.
[57:07.450 --> 57:16.570]  I want to thank all the people who have written in and called in with messages of condolence for the passing of our official 2600 mascot, Walter the Dog.
[57:17.370 --> 57:25.930]  And I'd like to close the show, actually, with a song for him, which, surprisingly, is done by the same people who do our Y2K theme.
[57:25.970 --> 57:28.110]  Surprisingly, I say, because it sounds so completely different.
[57:28.110 --> 57:35.850]  The band is Klaatu, and the song is written by somebody who's pretty much gone through what we've gone through in the last week.
[57:36.010 --> 57:44.050]  Again, thanks to everybody for understanding and for realizing that an animal can be someone really special if you allow them to be.
[57:44.250 --> 57:45.310]  We'll see you next week.
[57:45.430 --> 57:45.670]  Good night.
[57:51.390 --> 58:33.330]  I never had a closer friend than you I never had such good times as the ones we used to have together You're the one I told my problems to Who through the years remained true blue No, I never had a closer friend than you But all good things must end No use trying to pretend No use trying to pretend it isn't so When it's time you gotta go But I never had a better friend than you
[58:48.070 --> 59:05.590]  I know it sounds a trifle odd To those who've never had a dog But I never had a closer friend than you But all good things must end.
[59:05.770 --> 59:09.870]  No use crying for the dead, and that's a fact.
[59:10.130 --> 59:12.730]  All my tears won't bring you back.
[59:13.230 --> 59:17.410]  And I've never had a better friend than you.
[59:18.770 --> 59:23.190]  No, I'll never have a better friend than you.
[59:46.210 --> 59:51.490]  In recent months, attacks against Colombian human rights workers have come to a critical point.
[59:51.710 --> 01:00:00.270]  Last year, well-known human rights defenders were assassinated by paramilitary groups acting with complete impunity, and many were forced to leave the country.
[01:00:00.610 --> 01:00:08.530]  Last month, right-wing paramilitary leaders declared human rights activists war prisoners after abducting four members of the Institute for Popular Education.
[01:00:08.530 --> 01:00:16.310]  The Columbia Media Project is holding an emergency public forum to look at this issue on Wednesday, March 10th at 7 p.m.
[01:00:16.710 --> 01:00:22.890]  at the Hunter College West Building, Room 217, located at 68th Street and Lexington Avenue.
[01:00:23.370 --> 01:00:30.410]  Special guests include Gloria Flores, president of the Association for Alternative Social Policy and recipient of the Robert F.
[01:00:30.510 --> 01:00:32.190]  Kennedy Human Rights Award last year.
[01:00:32.570 --> 01:00:41.370]  Agustin Jimenez, president of the Committee in Solidarity with Political Prisoners of Colombia, and Jose Antonio Girón Sierra, founder of the Institute for Popular Education.
[01:00:41.690 --> 01:00:46.550]  That's Colombia, Human Rights Defenders Under Fire, Wednesday, March 10th at Hunter College.
[01:00:46.750 --> 01:00:52.370]  For more information, call the Columbia Media Project at 212-802-7209.
[01:00:56.230 --> 01:01:01.490]  It is 9.01, and this is WBAI 99.5 FM.
[01:01:01.730 --> 01:01:03.410]  Stay tuned for Tahrir.