[00:01.910 --> 00:03.910]  And some more remarks, man.
[00:04.130 --> 00:04.850]  I miss you.
[00:05.690 --> 00:08.590]  This is Mike Levine, WBAI's expert witness.
[00:08.910 --> 00:21.030]  We're out of time for this third segment of three hours of interview with one of a CIA pilot, a man who flew more drugs onto our nation's street working for our CIA.
[00:21.670 --> 00:28.010]  And he did it... well, he threw more drugs onto the street than any criminal cartel in history.
[00:28.010 --> 00:34.110]  And at a time when we, the American people, were taxed more than a trillion dollars to fight drugs.
[00:34.310 --> 00:39.530]  Originally, we were going to have this pilot, Tosh Plumlee, on next week live.
[00:39.650 --> 00:41.470]  But there's just too much.
[00:41.470 --> 00:51.890]  And I've decided that this evidence is too important to be hidden from any American who wants to avail him or herself of the truth, while their leaders turn street tricks to hide it from us.
[00:52.130 --> 01:13.650]  Thus, two more pre-recorded segments trying to show you exactly what your elected leaders and bureaucrats have hidden from you, now scheduled for April 27th and May the 5th, after which all five hours will be offered as a premium next month, and will be offered in perpetuity on our website,
[01:13.670 --> 01:19.730]  which you can reach me at expert53 at AOL.com to find the address of that website.
[01:19.730 --> 01:31.070]  In the meantime, if anybody has any questions or comments they want asked of this pilot, before the next two shows, you can reach me at 212-209-2970.
[01:31.070 --> 01:33.730]  That's 212-209-2970.
[01:34.290 --> 01:39.730]  Or on the Internet at expert53 at AOL.com.
[01:42.270 --> 01:51.170]  And just listen to these folks and understand how important it is to all of us to have this little voice, WBAI, in the wilderness.
[01:51.850 --> 01:52.850]  Hasta la semana que viene.
[01:55.880 --> 02:08.420]  And tune in to Expert Witness next week at this very same time, when you can again hear Mike Levine saying goodbye, and once again hear me say it's time for Off the Hook, here on WBAI in New York.
[02:15.100 --> 02:36.840]  The telephone keeps ringing So I ripped it off the wall I cut myself while shaving Now I can't make a cough It could be yet much worse But if they could, they would Bum-Dilly-Bum But the best, expect the worst I hope that's understood Bum-Dilly-Bum
[03:33.390 --> 03:41.210]  And you're listening to WBAI in New York Where the CD players, as usual, don't work Okay, that's great.
[03:41.350 --> 03:41.690]  Look at that.
[03:42.050 --> 03:43.690]  It's spinning away and it's not doing anything.
[03:43.790 --> 03:47.910]  Let's put on the alternate version That's not working either.
[03:49.450 --> 03:51.430]  All the CD players are disconnected.
[03:52.030 --> 03:52.970]  That's always fun.
[03:53.170 --> 03:53.410]  Yeah.
[03:53.870 --> 03:54.970]  Look at those counters go, though.
[03:55.050 --> 03:55.910]  The counters are working.
[03:56.270 --> 03:57.810]  The machine, the remote control is working.
[03:57.810 --> 04:03.390]  We are playing two CDs right now, but you can't hear either one of them because they're being broadcast to you in subsonic space.
[04:03.690 --> 04:04.010]  Ooh.
[04:04.510 --> 04:04.770]  Yeah.
[04:05.050 --> 04:05.690]  Spooky stuff.
[04:06.210 --> 04:06.470]  All right.
[04:06.510 --> 04:07.290]  Well, hopefully Bernie S.
[04:07.390 --> 04:08.590]  is here with us on the telephone.
[04:08.710 --> 04:09.270]  Bernie, are you there?
[04:09.270 --> 04:11.030]  I'm here after the third try.
[04:11.270 --> 04:16.170]  I guess, yeah, I guess if we have to choose between you and a CD player, I guess you would win.
[04:18.270 --> 04:18.590]  Thank you.
[04:18.590 --> 04:19.610]  Sure, yeah, sure would be nice.
[04:19.710 --> 04:21.410]  Well, you know, there's a fourth CD player here.
[04:21.690 --> 04:25.210]  It's labeled CD4, but there's no... Oh, there is a CD4 label.
[04:25.310 --> 04:26.630]  It doesn't look like the others, though.
[04:26.710 --> 04:27.510]  No, it doesn't look like the others.
[04:27.710 --> 04:29.910]  It looks like a consumer model instead of a professional model.
[04:29.970 --> 04:31.970]  So what I'm going to do is, I'm going to skillfully...
[04:31.970 --> 04:32.550]  Oh, look at that.
[04:33.190 --> 04:34.490]  It's closing on its own.
[04:34.670 --> 04:36.050]  I'm going to put this CD in there.
[04:36.870 --> 04:43.250]  And, uh, let's, um, let's hope that the CD will cooperate and actually do something.
[04:45.190 --> 04:46.690]  Okay, it's playing too.
[04:46.810 --> 04:47.670]  Actually, it's not playing yet.
[04:48.110 --> 04:49.130]  I don't think that works.
[04:49.410 --> 04:49.910]  There we go.
[04:50.330 --> 04:50.930]  How about that?
[04:53.230 --> 04:54.510]  That was the whole thing.
[04:54.750 --> 04:57.310]  I think we just heard the entire CD in about three seconds.
[04:57.450 --> 04:57.750]  Wowee.
[04:58.390 --> 05:00.650]  Okay, well, this obviously isn't going to work out.
[05:01.510 --> 05:02.170]  Gee whiz.
[05:02.310 --> 05:03.150]  Okay, where do we begin?
[05:03.350 --> 05:06.030]  Since the technical part of the show obviously isn't going to...
[05:06.030 --> 05:06.670]  to, uh, be working out.
[05:06.850 --> 05:07.810]  Okay, well, how about this?
[05:08.050 --> 05:09.970]  Um, Bernie, you can't see this, but Isaac, you certainly can.
[05:10.050 --> 05:10.870]  You see what I'm holding up here?
[05:10.930 --> 05:11.370]  Yes, I can.
[05:11.490 --> 05:12.010]  What is it?
[05:12.210 --> 05:13.810]  Uh, She Stole from Tots.
[05:13.870 --> 05:14.710]  Not the headline.
[05:14.730 --> 05:15.690]  What is it I'm holding up?
[05:15.710 --> 05:16.450]  Oh, that's the Daily News.
[05:16.530 --> 05:17.850]  That's the New York Daily News.
[05:18.870 --> 05:20.590]  One of the finest papers in the world.
[05:22.270 --> 05:25.010]  Yeah, well, in any event, uh, there's an interesting article in here.
[05:25.910 --> 05:27.450]  Not She Stole from Tots?
[05:27.550 --> 05:29.590]  No, on page, uh, 23.
[05:29.870 --> 05:31.290]  And you can also find this on the website.
[05:32.350 --> 05:35.710]  And it's entitled Anti-Rudy Feeling Hits Cyberspace.
[05:35.870 --> 05:39.750]  Mayor Giuliani's all-but-declared Senate campaign is under siege in cyberspace.
[05:40.090 --> 05:49.490]  Critics of the mayor last week launched two internet websites to bash his potential Senate run as his own pro-Rudy campaign site went online.
[05:49.790 --> 05:57.310]  Rudy Go Away blasts the homepage of RetireRudy.com, launched Thursday by a small group of activists fed up with Giuliani policies.
[05:57.310 --> 06:03.890]  Visitors can learn 41 reasons why Rudy should go, from taxi drivers to baseball stadiums to emergency bunkers.
[06:04.090 --> 06:11.330]  They can read how the mayor has gone bonkers by damaging neighborhoods, the city's quality of life, and the police department's credibility, the site says.
[06:11.490 --> 06:18.010]  There's even a countdown to the end of the mayor's term, two years, eight months, and 14 days by last Friday's count.
[06:18.410 --> 06:26.370]  For pure satire, there's Rudolph Giuliani for Senate 2000, whose motto is, Giuliani, he'll do to the country what he did to our city.
[06:27.130 --> 06:42.430]  Reached at GiulianiForSenate2000.com, the site features unflattering mugs of the mayor with quips like, As mayor of the city of New York, I drove the crime rate down, followed by an explainer that reads, Since I took office, the police started committing crimes on their own.
[06:43.030 --> 06:57.030]  Meanwhile, backers of First Lady Hillary Rodden Clinton, the mayor's potential Democratic opponent last week, launched RunHillary.com to support her candidacy and counter the Senate race's first cyber barb, a HillaryNo.com site created by Giuliani supporters.
[06:57.330 --> 07:02.630]  A real Giuliani for Senate campaign website, rudyyes.com, went online two days earlier.
[07:03.270 --> 07:06.070]  The more the merrier, said Giuliani aides.
[07:06.090 --> 07:17.150]  I'm glad to see so many people out there have been inspired by our HillaryNo.com and rudyyes.com site to go out and create their own website, said Bruce Teitelbaum, who heads the mayor's political campaign.
[07:17.770 --> 07:21.930]  Anti-Giuliani site organizers call themselves critics of the mayor rather than Clinton fans.
[07:22.470 --> 07:29.910]  We want to show there's a wide, diverse body of opinion that thinks this mayor is out of control, said John Fisher, co-creator of retirerudy.com.
[07:30.430 --> 07:42.970]  Giuliani for Senate 2000 co-creator Emmanuel Goldstein, a registered independent, said the site is intended to tap into anger over the mayor's intolerance to dissent.
[07:43.210 --> 07:45.690]  Well, I looked in my records and sure enough, they are correct.
[07:45.690 --> 07:51.190]  I did put that site together, but they are incorrect in giving the name of the site.
[07:51.210 --> 07:55.230]  If you can believe this, you know, after having a story like this, they get the address wrong.
[07:55.370 --> 07:56.290]  Well, it is the Daily News.
[07:56.730 --> 07:57.810]  It's just so frustrating.
[07:58.370 --> 08:06.510]  It's Giuliani for Senate 2000.org, not .com, Giuliani for Senate 2000.org, you know, and the thing is, you know, they found the site on their own.
[08:06.630 --> 08:09.890]  They found it and they looked at it and then they report the wrong address.
[08:10.890 --> 08:16.990]  So all these people, even though they gave the wrong address, all these people have been hitting it and finding it on their own.
[08:17.070 --> 08:27.410]  So I guess people are fairly clever as far as figuring out websites, but... I'm giving credit for being as reliable as Bob Dole in announcing his own URL on national television.
[08:27.450 --> 08:28.070]  What did he announce?
[08:28.610 --> 08:29.850]  He announced the wrong one.
[08:29.970 --> 08:32.090]  There was some error in it or something and nobody could find it.
[08:33.210 --> 08:34.530]  That was about two years ago.
[08:34.750 --> 08:34.930]  Really?
[08:35.010 --> 08:37.010]  Well, that was when the web was just in its infancy.
[08:37.170 --> 08:40.070]  There were only about 20 sites in the net, I believe, according to Clinton.
[08:40.750 --> 08:40.870]  Yeah.
[08:42.230 --> 08:44.770]  But in any event, this is a fun site.
[08:44.970 --> 08:47.450]  I encourage everybody to look it over.
[08:47.970 --> 08:51.610]  I can tell you this, they're very upset because, I mean, think about it.
[08:51.650 --> 08:54.790]  They didn't register the site themselves, Giuliani for Senate 2000.
[08:54.790 --> 08:58.950]  I mean, it's obviously something that they're going to want, but they didn't grab it in time.
[08:59.030 --> 08:59.970]  And that's how the net works.
[09:00.050 --> 09:03.810]  You know, some 13-year-old kid from Topeka, Kansas can get something before Bill Clinton can get it.
[09:04.170 --> 09:06.410]  And all of a sudden, he's the one calling the shots.
[09:06.990 --> 09:10.170]  So that's something to keep in mind.
[09:10.310 --> 09:15.790]  I don't know what's on Giuliani for Senate2000.com, but someone else has that site, but we have .org.
[09:16.450 --> 09:27.050]  And people are encouraged to contribute little quips and anecdotes of their own so we can make the site the official site of the anti-Giuliani campaign, which is kind of cool when you think of it.
[09:27.150 --> 09:28.590]  It's anti-campaign.
[09:28.810 --> 09:30.190]  And, you know, he did start it all.
[09:30.270 --> 09:33.530]  He did start it with the HillaryNo.com site.
[09:33.870 --> 09:38.550]  I mean, that's the first thing he does running for Senate is put out of sight against somebody.
[09:38.990 --> 09:39.710]  I'll tell you, man.
[09:39.810 --> 09:42.950]  You've got to learn something about, you know, manners and politeness.
[09:44.470 --> 09:45.090]  Oh, well.
[09:45.190 --> 09:46.590]  Bernie S., what's new with you down there in Philly?
[09:47.590 --> 09:48.930]  How's your mayor doing?
[09:49.630 --> 09:55.130]  Well, our mayor is about due to retire, and there's an interesting mayoral race in Philadelphia heating up.
[09:56.510 --> 10:00.330]  So you have to read the Philadelphia newspapers to get the full story.
[10:00.430 --> 10:02.670]  There's not enough time to talk about it on this program.
[10:03.450 --> 10:20.430]  But, you know, we actually had one candidate about two months ago who, someone from a competing, an adversarial campaign, posted a false website about the, sort of a spoof website.
[10:20.430 --> 10:21.690]  But it wasn't clearly a spoof.
[10:21.790 --> 10:24.870]  I mean, it looked like a genuine website of the opposing candidate.
[10:25.230 --> 10:27.210]  And I forget the candidate's name.
[10:27.350 --> 10:29.970]  But in any case, it looked like a completely legitimate website.
[10:30.210 --> 10:32.130]  But the policies were wrong.
[10:32.710 --> 10:35.370]  So it caused quite a bit of consternation.
[10:35.510 --> 10:40.570]  And after about a week, it was taken down after it hit the press that they tracked down who had put this up.
[10:40.630 --> 10:43.810]  And it was someone on the campaign staff of an opposing candidate.
[10:43.970 --> 10:45.950]  Well, now, do you remember the address of the website?
[10:46.230 --> 10:46.970]  I do not.
[10:47.110 --> 10:49.230]  I didn't know you were going to ask me this, or I would have had it ready.
[10:50.030 --> 10:51.170]  Of course I'm going to ask this.
[10:51.430 --> 10:52.370]  Well, now, here's the thing.
[10:52.510 --> 10:54.330]  They registered a site.
[10:54.470 --> 10:56.810]  They put up what I imagine are their opinions on it.
[10:56.830 --> 10:57.370]  What's the problem?
[10:58.650 --> 11:04.150]  Uh, there were not the opinions of the candidate who the website was being represented as.
[11:04.150 --> 11:04.330]  I see.
[11:04.430 --> 11:08.330]  So they were representing somebody else's opinions, and that person was not necessarily saying that themselves.
[11:08.410 --> 11:08.410]  Right.
[11:08.430 --> 11:12.730]  It had his picture up and stuff in quotation marks, and the guy never said this stuff.
[11:12.950 --> 11:14.090]  But it looked legitimate.
[11:14.210 --> 11:21.510]  It didn't look like a satirical website or, I mean, it looked like even the URL sounded like it would have been a legitimate URL for that candidate's website.
[11:22.110 --> 11:27.790]  But, uh, that was all straightened out and taken down a few days later after the media got a hold of it.
[11:27.910 --> 11:30.070]  The perpetrator dragged out and shot, I imagine.
[11:30.610 --> 11:31.690]  Uh, I don't think they were executed.
[11:32.330 --> 11:34.310]  But, uh, it didn't happen.
[11:34.590 --> 11:35.930]  I'm surprised they weren't executed.
[11:36.110 --> 11:39.230]  You know, with all the computer-related laws going the way they're going.
[11:39.370 --> 11:40.330]  Yeah, that's certainly true.
[11:40.590 --> 11:44.530]  Well, we had a very traumatic thing happen to us over the past week.
[11:44.830 --> 11:53.090]  I don't know if you heard about this, Bernie, down there in Philadelphia, but everybody here is sort of stumbling into walls still, you know, in a total trance.
[11:53.090 --> 11:54.710]  I've been doing that for a long time now.
[11:54.930 --> 11:56.030]  Yeah, but we have reason to.
[11:56.610 --> 11:57.690]  And it's, uh...
[11:57.690 --> 12:01.190]  I tell you, man, you know, you hear about this thing happening all over the country.
[12:01.190 --> 12:02.570]  You don't think it can happen to you.
[12:02.710 --> 12:03.990]  You really don't think it can happen to you.
[12:04.130 --> 12:05.110]  And then it happens.
[12:05.390 --> 12:07.510]  It happens and you say, how could this have happened?
[12:08.110 --> 12:09.170]  Couldn't I have done something?
[12:09.290 --> 12:10.270]  Couldn't I have prevented this?
[12:10.710 --> 12:14.470]  Couldn't we all have done a better job at something to make this not happen?
[12:14.570 --> 12:15.090]  And it happened.
[12:15.210 --> 12:15.910]  It happened anyway.
[12:16.050 --> 12:20.250]  There was nothing 516 area code is splitting.
[12:21.310 --> 12:23.910]  We're losing 516 and half of Long Island.
[12:24.030 --> 12:24.450]  And you know what?
[12:24.590 --> 12:26.930]  It's my half of Long Island that's losing the 516.
[12:27.210 --> 12:28.290]  I'm not going to be in 516.
[12:29.030 --> 12:32.230]  You're in the 516 part that you're keeping, aren't you?
[12:32.450 --> 12:32.750]  Yes.
[12:34.030 --> 12:36.070]  You see, this is what happens.
[12:36.270 --> 12:36.850]  This is what happens.
[12:36.970 --> 12:38.850]  People are pitted against each other.
[12:38.930 --> 12:39.910]  I don't hate Isaac.
[12:41.030 --> 12:47.610]  I'm not going to plant all kinds of things under his house because he lives in the part of 516 that's going to remain 516.
[12:47.910 --> 12:49.010]  But I do feel resentment.
[12:49.190 --> 12:50.590]  I have to be honest here.
[12:50.790 --> 12:53.730]  I am feeling something that I think I should share with everybody.
[12:54.190 --> 12:55.110]  And it's not good.
[12:55.250 --> 12:56.110]  It's not good at all.
[12:56.370 --> 12:58.130]  Because you're going to be 516, okay?
[12:58.270 --> 13:05.270]  And I'm going to be something like 93Z or I don't know, you know, some crazy thing that no one will ever remember.
[13:05.430 --> 13:06.110]  Well, look at it this way.
[13:06.290 --> 13:08.830]  We both have to now dial 10-digit numbers.
[13:09.170 --> 13:10.170]  No, that's not true.
[13:10.350 --> 13:11.950]  That's not true because it's not an overlay.
[13:12.110 --> 13:15.510]  If it was an overlay area code, yes, you would have to dial 10 digits all the time.
[13:16.310 --> 13:18.610]  That was one of the things they were suggesting doing.
[13:18.730 --> 13:20.630]  I think, Bernie, you have that down there, don't you?
[13:20.710 --> 13:21.830]  Yes, we have overlays.
[13:22.050 --> 13:24.590]  Yeah, it's something called 10-number numbers, right?
[13:25.130 --> 13:28.530]  Yes, and that's a trademark name by Bell Atlantic.
[13:28.650 --> 13:29.850]  They call it a 10-number number.
[13:29.990 --> 13:32.290]  Not a 10-digit number, but a 10-number number.
[13:32.450 --> 13:35.850]  I remember down at the Senior Expo, they were trying to explain that to senior citizens.
[13:36.210 --> 13:38.650]  And I'll tell you, the looks they were getting from these senior citizens.
[13:38.790 --> 13:39.850]  What, 10-number number?
[13:39.910 --> 13:41.150]  What in the world are you talking about?
[13:41.330 --> 13:44.370]  That was when we met Freddy the Phone Fraud Fox.
[13:44.370 --> 13:46.450]  Freddy the Phone Fraud Fox, who wisely kept his mouth shut on the issue.
[13:46.670 --> 13:48.390]  And, in fact, kept his mouth shut all the time.
[13:48.510 --> 13:50.670]  Because, you know, I don't think it was really a he under that costume.
[13:50.870 --> 13:54.490]  No, I distinctly think it was a female Freddy the Phone Fraud Fox.
[13:55.990 --> 13:57.730]  I'll tell you, I don't know what kind of world we're living in.
[13:58.150 --> 13:59.730]  But, in any event, that's what happened.
[13:59.790 --> 14:04.790]  The 516 area code, it was announced on April 14th, is going to be splitting down the Nassau-Suffolk border.
[14:04.990 --> 14:07.010]  So, those of you in Nassau, you get 516.
[14:07.130 --> 14:08.650]  Those of you in Suffolk, you don't get 516.
[14:08.650 --> 14:13.350]  And, you know, I heard only one person showed up to the meeting to discuss all of this.
[14:13.470 --> 14:16.670]  Only one person in all of Long Island cared enough to go.
[14:16.770 --> 14:17.770]  And I wasn't that person.
[14:17.810 --> 14:18.270]  And you know why?
[14:18.350 --> 14:19.470]  Because I didn't even know about the meeting.
[14:20.230 --> 14:23.690]  Yeah, it wasn't exactly advertised on the front page of Newsday or anything like that.
[14:23.810 --> 14:25.530]  So, nobody really knew.
[14:25.630 --> 14:26.490]  Nobody really could say anything.
[14:26.850 --> 14:28.910]  If you could go, though, what would you say, you know?
[14:29.650 --> 14:30.290]  Don't do that.
[14:30.650 --> 14:31.610]  Yeah, but what do you do instead?
[14:32.930 --> 14:33.450]  I don't know.
[14:33.570 --> 14:34.710]  Yeah, you see, nobody has an answer.
[14:34.930 --> 14:35.730]  Nobody has an answer.
[14:35.910 --> 14:37.090]  No, you can't get a phone.
[14:37.090 --> 14:37.910]  Yeah, we're out of numbers.
[14:38.250 --> 14:42.630]  Here's what I would say, but I would have to say it to somebody else other than the people that were splitting 516.
[14:42.930 --> 14:44.990]  Add a digit to the phone number nationwide.
[14:45.010 --> 14:46.590]  That would have solved so many problems.
[14:46.770 --> 14:48.010]  Eight-digit phone numbers instead of seven.
[14:48.090 --> 14:49.450]  You wouldn't have had to split all the area codes.
[14:49.550 --> 14:52.990]  Or, if you really didn't want to do that, have four-digit area codes.
[14:53.050 --> 14:57.630]  And that way, we could have kept the geographic locations that area codes once represented.
[14:57.770 --> 14:59.510]  Like, for instance, Bernie, you would have 215.
[14:59.510 --> 15:02.930]  Instead of having that 610 split, what's the most recent split?
[15:03.870 --> 15:09.890]  We have, now down here, we have 215 and 267 will be a new Philadelphia area code.
[15:10.070 --> 15:10.510]  267.
[15:10.730 --> 15:13.550]  And then an offshoot of the 610 will be 484.
[15:13.730 --> 15:15.870]  So we'll have four area codes for the Philadelphia area.
[15:15.870 --> 15:17.590]  And none of them are similar.
[15:18.250 --> 15:21.310]  215 to me, you say 215, I think Philadelphia, you know?
[15:21.510 --> 15:24.310]  Give me any old area code and I can tell you where it is immediately.
[15:25.890 --> 15:26.910]  Although I will say...
[15:26.910 --> 15:27.530]  That was a challenge.
[15:27.850 --> 15:28.930]  I was about to ask.
[15:29.170 --> 15:31.270]  It took some getting used to to get used to 610.
[15:31.890 --> 15:32.910]  I'm used to it now.
[15:33.090 --> 15:34.550]  But 610 at least...
[15:34.550 --> 15:35.330]  It's easy to remember.
[15:35.430 --> 15:35.570]  Yeah.
[15:35.610 --> 15:37.590]  There's other things like 267.
[15:37.670 --> 15:38.390]  Who can remember that?
[15:39.530 --> 15:40.150]  That's unbelievable.
[15:40.330 --> 15:42.130]  I think 281 is like Houston or something.
[15:42.330 --> 15:42.870]  I'm not sure.
[15:42.870 --> 15:44.450]  But there's all these weird ones.
[15:44.710 --> 15:49.690]  If you had kept four digit area codes, you'd have 215.1, 215.2, 215.3.
[15:49.990 --> 15:52.030]  You know, and you could keep that going for a while.
[15:52.210 --> 15:53.130]  It would be more logical.
[15:53.290 --> 15:54.090]  It would be a lot more logical.
[15:54.190 --> 15:55.670]  Which is why it's not happening.
[15:55.890 --> 15:59.710]  Is there any chance we can go back and erase all these mistakes and put it the way it's supposed to be?
[15:59.770 --> 16:00.350]  Is it too late?
[16:00.450 --> 16:01.210]  Is it really too late?
[16:01.330 --> 16:07.250]  Well, we could invest lots of money into developing a time machine for the express purpose of fixing telephone numbers.
[16:07.570 --> 16:07.810]  Yeah.
[16:08.710 --> 16:10.150]  And maybe other things as well.
[16:10.590 --> 16:11.610]  Sounds like a good movie script.
[16:11.850 --> 16:12.470]  Yes, it does.
[16:12.930 --> 16:13.970]  Well, I don't know.
[16:14.150 --> 16:16.130]  Since it's probably too late, where is this going to go?
[16:16.330 --> 16:20.270]  We're going to wind up with 10 digit phone numbers for everything local, long distance.
[16:21.590 --> 16:23.870]  And we're not going to know where we're calling at any time.
[16:24.190 --> 16:25.950]  Maybe all calls will be local calls then.
[16:26.210 --> 16:27.410]  Maybe that's how it's going to work out.
[16:27.450 --> 16:28.070]  Ooh, that'll be fun.
[16:28.070 --> 16:30.390]  Since you won't know where you're calling, you know, it might as well be.
[16:31.730 --> 16:34.430]  All right, let's get on to more serious issues.
[16:35.410 --> 16:36.150]  Terrorism.
[16:36.330 --> 16:41.610]  FBI agent says authorities foiled at least 13 planned terrorist attacks last year.
[16:41.890 --> 16:52.250]  Paul Killian, who investigates domestic terrorism, says the attacks involve small groups or individuals targeting federal buildings, military bases, and police facilities.
[16:52.770 --> 16:56.350]  Killian says there are more would-be terrorists out there than people think.
[16:57.050 --> 17:01.810]  Killian spoke at an anti-terrorism forum as if there are pro-terrorism forums, you know.
[17:02.910 --> 17:07.110]  An anti-terrorism forum held just two blocks from the Oklahoma City bombing site.
[17:07.330 --> 17:13.030]  The event coincided with the fourth anniversary of the bombing of the Alfred P. Murr Federal Building, which killed 168 people.
[17:13.130 --> 17:19.930]  Now, I mean, that's interesting that somebody goes up there and says that they foiled all these terrorist attacks and doesn't give any details.
[17:20.410 --> 17:21.630]  What are these terrorist attacks?
[17:21.730 --> 17:22.610]  What was going on?
[17:22.650 --> 17:24.690]  We didn't hear about them when they were foiled, you know.
[17:24.770 --> 17:25.910]  I haven't heard anything about this.
[17:25.910 --> 17:26.350]  Have you, Bernie?
[17:26.990 --> 17:27.570]  None at all.
[17:29.610 --> 17:31.070]  So, what do you make of this?
[17:31.810 --> 17:33.150]  Just more exaggeration?
[17:33.250 --> 17:34.870]  Maybe they want to allocate money or something?
[17:35.470 --> 17:36.230]  Lots of money.
[17:37.490 --> 17:51.610]  In fact, I think I have some information here about Vice President Gore's anti-terrorism, I don't want to call it a group, but sort of a panel.
[17:51.870 --> 17:52.550]  That's what it is.
[17:55.030 --> 17:55.750]  Let's see here.
[17:55.850 --> 17:58.230]  Let me just read this brief press release I read this morning.
[17:59.750 --> 18:13.210]  The United States allocated $2.8 billion for a monitoring system championed by Vice President Al Gore, which will use computer profiles to single out airline passengers for investigation and scrutiny.
[18:14.090 --> 18:22.650]  Airlines will use a secret algorithm to compare a traveler's personal status to profiles of likely terrorists, according to a new proposed federal regulation.
[18:22.890 --> 18:25.170]  Other travelers will be chosen at random.
[18:25.670 --> 18:36.710]  And this is the Vice President Al Gore, who's been touting all kinds of privacy rights type things lately on his campaign stops.
[18:37.490 --> 18:38.890]  He's been touting privacy rights?
[18:38.890 --> 18:39.270]  That's what we get.
[18:41.090 --> 18:52.850]  This is that thing I heard about where, for instance, if I were to buy my plane ticket with cash at the last minute and had a rental car waiting for me in, like, Dallas, I would be picked up as a possible terrorist?
[18:53.330 --> 18:54.110]  That's the thing.
[18:54.510 --> 18:55.810]  Oh, how fun.
[18:56.430 --> 18:57.830]  You know, I'd like to try that.
[18:57.890 --> 18:59.550]  Just pay for a ticket in all cash.
[18:59.750 --> 19:00.750]  That would be kind of cool.
[19:01.310 --> 19:05.350]  Another thing that's always fun, and, you know, I don't recommend doing this, but it's fun if you're bored.
[19:05.530 --> 19:06.590]  You call up an airline.
[19:06.690 --> 19:09.370]  Any airline, just ask when the next flight out of the country is.
[19:09.690 --> 19:10.830]  Doesn't matter where it's going.
[19:11.070 --> 19:13.070]  Just where's the next flight out of the country.
[19:13.070 --> 19:17.530]  And, if you really want to have fun, ask what the extradition treaty is in that country, if they have one.
[19:18.810 --> 19:19.870]  Perfectly innocent questions.
[19:19.990 --> 19:24.490]  Perfectly innocent questions, but you'll get all kinds of computers being triggered by that.
[19:24.910 --> 19:26.170]  Would you like to make a reservation?
[19:27.570 --> 19:29.170]  I'm not going to do that live on the air, no.
[19:29.290 --> 19:30.290]  I'm going to make it out of the building.
[19:31.510 --> 19:36.510]  Let me read the personal experience of someone here who was recently subjected to this.
[19:36.610 --> 19:36.790]  Yes.
[19:37.290 --> 19:39.170]  There's a gentleman, let me see his name here.
[19:39.170 --> 19:39.170]  Sure.
[19:40.310 --> 19:42.610]  Talk about something else for two seconds, and I'll read this to you.
[19:42.770 --> 19:44.510]  For two seconds, you want us to talk about something else?
[19:44.770 --> 19:46.250]  Well, all right, 30 seconds.
[19:46.490 --> 19:46.790]  All right.
[19:47.430 --> 19:51.470]  Well, actually, I don't have anything here.
[19:51.610 --> 19:53.430]  Well, I'm actually doing something interesting this week.
[19:53.490 --> 19:54.010]  Okay, go ahead.
[19:54.010 --> 19:55.770]  You always ask, and I never do anything interesting.
[19:55.790 --> 19:56.930]  How about what you're doing interesting this week?
[19:57.430 --> 20:03.390]  Today is the 38th anniversary of the first FCC stereo broadcast license, so I baked a cake.
[20:03.710 --> 20:05.050]  Well, that's lovely.
[20:05.270 --> 20:06.010]  That's amazing.
[20:06.190 --> 20:06.810]  I have a letter.
[20:06.990 --> 20:07.530]  You have a letter?
[20:07.530 --> 20:09.670]  I have a letter to the radio.
[20:10.570 --> 20:16.270]  Listening to you talk about the government cracking down on people with any kind of communications listening device, I believe you'll like to hear of this.
[20:16.450 --> 20:20.230]  My mother dates the local deputy sheriff, even though I do not agree with her decision.
[20:21.090 --> 20:21.630]  I don't know.
[20:21.730 --> 20:23.570]  That seems like a good in with the law.
[20:23.630 --> 20:24.590]  Well, yeah, I guess it could be.
[20:24.730 --> 20:31.830]  But interestingly enough, he pulled up near our house and used his radio to listen in on one of my mother's phone calls in which she was talking about him.
[20:32.370 --> 20:37.630]  Later that day, he came over with a scrambled phone so he could not be spied on when talking to her over the phone.
[20:37.770 --> 20:43.450]  And most likely after my mother told him of my hacking hobbies, he made sure to do this so I would not spy on his calls.
[20:43.830 --> 20:50.230]  Odd how he will spy on others, yet throws up every precaution to stop others from spying on him and information on his police work.
[20:50.370 --> 20:53.810]  Too bad he doesn't realize it doesn't help him since the phone is in my house and not his.
[20:55.070 --> 20:59.750]  Well, you know, I think what we have here is we have a microcosm of how the whole system works.
[20:59.930 --> 21:05.790]  You've got laws that are being made that make it illegal for individuals to listen in on certain radio frequencies.
[21:05.790 --> 21:20.250]  But then you have equipment being sold to police agencies, to federal authorities, to all kinds of quote unquote law enforcement officials that allow them to break your privacy and listen in on your phone calls when you have supposedly the right to privacy.
[21:20.250 --> 21:22.630]  And they're exempt from prosecution for doing the same.
[21:23.090 --> 21:23.490]  Exactly.
[21:23.670 --> 21:23.910]  Exactly.
[21:23.910 --> 21:24.590]  And you know what?
[21:24.590 --> 21:26.210]  They don't ever have to say that they did it.
[21:26.330 --> 21:27.910]  They can just do this for recreation.
[21:28.310 --> 21:31.470]  And as long as it doesn't come up anywhere, who's going to ever do anything about it?
[21:31.570 --> 21:31.750]  Nobody.
[21:31.810 --> 21:33.410]  I have this interesting quote.
[21:34.110 --> 21:41.030]  Now the ACLU, they're collecting a list of complaints about this passenger profiling thing, this $2.8 billion plan that's going into effect.
[21:41.250 --> 21:52.910]  Apparently this money is going towards financing these artificial intelligence computer programs that will look for certain profiles and just use to calculate whether you're a terrorist or not.
[21:53.450 --> 22:04.810]  And one respondent who said he was a Northwest Airlines traveler said that the airline representative, this is a quote, the airline representative indicated that I was selected by the computer for special treatment.
[22:05.090 --> 22:11.550]  At that point, the security person donned surgical gloves and proceeded to go through each and every item in my briefcase in front of everyone.
[22:11.790 --> 22:17.250]  I was very displeased through the whole experience and felt that it constituted an unwarranted intrusion into my privacy.
[22:18.250 --> 22:24.050]  So imagine that, being selected for special treatment by an airline computer.
[22:24.430 --> 22:25.410]  That is something.
[22:25.810 --> 22:27.890]  Isn't that the first half of search and seizure?
[22:28.950 --> 22:31.590]  Well, it's not a law enforcement person doing so.
[22:32.110 --> 22:33.650]  It doesn't violate your rights.
[22:34.010 --> 22:37.570]  This is one of the tricks that law enforcement uses time and time again.
[22:37.570 --> 22:45.930]  If you can use a company or a private individual to violate your rights, it's not a violation of your rights because it's not a government official who's doing it.
[22:46.030 --> 22:49.610]  Doesn't this sound a lot like the 2600 meeting back in Washington, D.C.
[22:49.670 --> 22:52.490]  where the Secret Service got a private security firm to do this?
[22:52.530 --> 22:52.630]  Exactly.
[22:52.630 --> 22:54.130]  One and the same ruse.
[22:54.990 --> 22:55.870]  It's a shell game.
[22:56.990 --> 22:57.450]  Unbelievable.
[22:57.790 --> 23:07.230]  NSA did that kind of thing so far as having the telecommunications carriers just hand over mountains of telegraph messages for them to analyze.
[23:07.810 --> 23:11.110]  Yeah, it is a fairly popular technique.
[23:11.650 --> 23:13.630]  On to another case.
[23:13.870 --> 23:15.630]  The case we mentioned last week.
[23:16.150 --> 23:19.470]  And that is the case of a certain Bill Cheek, I believe.
[23:19.830 --> 23:20.190]  Yes.
[23:20.190 --> 23:21.830]  Yes, I feel sorry for Bill Cheek.
[23:22.010 --> 23:26.970]  Well, now, Bernie, you probably know more about this case than anybody because you've gone through something very, very similar.
[23:27.230 --> 23:29.970]  And we knew that there would be more cases like yours coming up.
[23:30.030 --> 23:34.430]  I guess the only difference is that this person isn't being treated quite as inhumanely as you, at least not yet.
[23:34.710 --> 23:35.770]  Well, he got bail, at least.
[23:35.870 --> 23:36.850]  Yeah, he got bail.
[23:36.990 --> 23:38.370]  He's still free, but...
[23:38.370 --> 23:39.350]  He got most of his stuff back.
[23:39.350 --> 23:41.450]  He got most of his stuff back, but he's in California.
[23:41.590 --> 23:44.250]  Supposedly, he's going to be sent to trial in New York.
[23:44.590 --> 23:45.510]  What's this all about?
[23:45.870 --> 23:55.350]  Well, for people who don't know who Bill Cheek is, Bill is a longtime radio hobbyist who's written several books and magazine articles over the years, and he's quite popular.
[23:55.350 --> 24:02.190]  He comes up with all kinds of interesting circuits that let you do interesting things with your radio scanners, that sort of thing.
[24:02.550 --> 24:03.270]  Interesting fellow.
[24:03.410 --> 24:07.810]  Always helpful to people on the internet with questions about scanners and frequencies, that sort of thing.
[24:07.890 --> 24:10.150]  Doesn't do anything illegal that is obvious, at least.
[24:10.410 --> 24:25.790]  In any case, he's been selling a kit that allows you to basically modify your scanner or take the output from your... the audio output from your scanner and demodulate certain types of signals that are on the air.
[24:26.110 --> 24:31.130]  And these signals include mobile data terminals.
[24:31.430 --> 24:44.350]  And mobile data terminals are those little, like, laptops you see in police cars, where they call up, you know, DMV records, arrest warrant information, whether you're wanted, you know, all that kind of stuff.
[24:45.030 --> 24:51.290]  And it allows police officers to chat via keyboard back and forth between their cars.
[24:51.490 --> 25:08.650]  People who remember the Rodney King case might recall that the information in the computer that handles this traffic was subpoenaed shortly after the And they found all kinds of interesting messages going back and forth between the police, such as, and I'm paraphrasing here,
[25:08.790 --> 25:13.050]  I think this is a direct quote, though, I haven't beaten somebody that bad for quite a long time.
[25:13.270 --> 25:16.190]  Another one said he was going wabbit hunting.
[25:16.990 --> 25:21.410]  And another one said that last case was like gorillas in the mist, that sort of thing.
[25:21.410 --> 25:22.890]  All that's on the net is to do a search.
[25:23.230 --> 25:26.590]  So anyhow, this circuit is very simple.
[25:26.710 --> 25:30.550]  It just takes a couple of op amps from Radio Shack, all the parts you can buy at Radio Shack.
[25:30.650 --> 25:31.450]  I don't know if you've heard this before.
[25:31.950 --> 25:39.390]  Anyway, he publishes this schematic on his website, which is comtronics.com, I believe.
[25:40.690 --> 25:45.350]  And he's been not making software available to demodulate these signals.
[25:45.370 --> 25:49.830]  He's just selling a very simple circuit, which in and of itself doesn't do anything, even if you build it.
[25:49.830 --> 25:52.490]  You need to have the right software to demodulate these signals.
[25:52.870 --> 25:55.950]  And he's been selling a kit for like $30 or $40 to people.
[25:56.710 --> 26:09.750]  Now, not only he, but other larger companies like Opto Electronics in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, have been selling so-called data splacer circuits for months, years, in fact, and haven't had any trouble.
[26:10.610 --> 26:16.650]  So it turns out, a few weeks ago, and I'll read what Bill wrote me.
[26:16.850 --> 26:27.270]  He says, about 7 o'clock on Wednesday, March 31st of 1999, Cindy, that's his wife, and I were enjoying our first cup of coffee of the day when there came a loud banging on the door.
[26:27.270 --> 26:32.890]  We supposed it was an early morning delivery by FedEx or UPS, so we answered the door.
[26:33.350 --> 26:40.070]  A badge was shoved in my face with the announcement that there was an warrant for Cindy's and my arrest and for a search of the premises.
[26:40.390 --> 26:50.550]  I stepped back, and a dozen or so armed agents for the United States Secret Service, FBI, Customs, Postal Inspectors, and even a local cop or two charged in.
[26:50.970 --> 26:52.670]  I was handcuffed and put on the couch.
[26:52.990 --> 26:57.510]  Cindy groggily wandered into the area and wondered what the commotion was all about, and also was handcuffed.
[26:58.390 --> 27:06.210]  I had to leave out a lot of details for the sake of time and gravity, but for the next two hours, it was a typical TV-style search and seizure situation.
[27:06.510 --> 27:08.730]  Then we were hauled off to be fingerprinted and jailed.
[27:09.490 --> 27:11.130]  That afternoon, we were hauled into U.S.
[27:11.190 --> 27:14.430]  District Court, given public offenders, and released on bail.
[27:14.590 --> 27:17.010]  It doesn't say how much, but I wasn't given any bail.
[27:17.390 --> 27:19.650]  Then they lowered it to like two and a quarter million or something.
[27:20.650 --> 27:23.650]  We didn't actually get out of the slammer until 9.30 p.m.
[27:23.650 --> 27:24.070]  that evening.
[27:24.230 --> 27:28.250]  We have to appear back in court on April 13th for an identity and removal hearing.
[27:28.930 --> 27:35.010]  We got home to find ten computers disconnected and gone, along with most of our business records, and a host of other stuff.
[27:35.550 --> 27:37.170]  The worst could be yet to come.
[27:37.370 --> 27:39.790]  Our arrest warrant was issued by a U.S.
[27:39.930 --> 27:41.950]  magistrate judge in Brooklyn, New York.
[27:42.110 --> 27:43.350]  Now, they live in California.
[27:44.050 --> 27:48.550]  The warrant specifically addresses a simple data slicer circuit.
[27:48.550 --> 27:56.550]  To wit, and this is an exact quote I'm going to read, United States Code, Title 18, Section 2512, Subsection 1A.
[27:57.330 --> 28:00.030]  This falls under the federal wiretapping statutes, I believe.
[28:00.270 --> 28:00.790]  Here it is.
[28:00.910 --> 28:15.470]  Quote, conspiring to send in interstate commerce devices having reason to know that the design of such device renders it primarily useful for the purpose of the surreptitious interception of electronic communications.
[28:15.710 --> 28:22.570]  To wit, mobile data terminal information broadcast by law enforcement agencies and emergency service organizations.
[28:23.270 --> 28:31.370]  And then Bill says, I'll leave it to you to interpret those charges, but as written, I can't imagine why companies like Optimal Electronics and MSJ Enterprises weren't rated, too.
[28:31.690 --> 28:34.890]  They and dozens of others sell the same type of device.
[28:36.430 --> 28:37.930]  In any event, the matter worsens.
[28:38.130 --> 28:43.770]  Since the warrant was issued by a judge in the Eastern District, Cindy and I apparently have to be tried there.
[28:43.910 --> 28:48.830]  It doesn't matter that we can't afford to travel back and forth coast to coast, and that we have no peers in New York.
[28:48.950 --> 28:50.530]  I've never set foot in New York.
[28:50.850 --> 28:54.770]  Fact is, I have to go to New York for the indictment hearing and for the trial, should it go that far.
[28:54.770 --> 29:03.130]  Or, that's the bleak side of it, that coupled with the fact that we can't afford to travel nor to hire competent attorneys who are skilled in electronic communications law.
[29:03.830 --> 29:21.250]  Then he says, on the lighter side, we got all our computers back a week later, and I emailed them back saying that they have to, by law, they have to, not that that stops them most of the time, but do you remember from the Steve Jackson Games case, the Secret Service kept the computers for months and months and refused to give them back?
[29:21.250 --> 29:21.610]  Mm-hmm.
[29:21.690 --> 29:23.910]  And also, there was a bulletin board being run.
[29:24.370 --> 29:24.730]  Exactly.
[29:24.750 --> 29:26.490]  I asked Bill if he had a bulletin board running.
[29:26.570 --> 29:27.070]  He said no.
[29:27.150 --> 29:28.490]  And that was the first thing I asked him.
[29:28.550 --> 29:32.230]  I said, well, you might have an interesting piece of case law to work on there.
[29:32.330 --> 29:34.610]  But, in any case, he got his computers back within a week.
[29:34.830 --> 29:47.210]  Because, if you recall, in the Steve Jackson Games case, the federal judge just lit into the Secret Service for keeping the computers so long, which had basically put them out of business for several months.
[29:47.270 --> 29:57.270]  And when, in fact, the Secret Service had admitted in that case, they'd extracted all the data off the hard drives in a matter of days, and yet they held on to the computers, preventing Steve from doing his work for months.
[29:57.410 --> 29:59.350]  So, I think the Secret Service is getting wiser.
[29:59.530 --> 30:13.050]  And I emailed Bill Cheek back, and I said, listen, they probably got those computers back to you right away after sucking all the data off of them so that you wouldn't have any grounds for a civil case for them holding on to the stuff too long.
[30:13.570 --> 30:14.930]  He seemed to think that makes sense.
[30:14.930 --> 30:19.490]  So, in any case, here's a guy who was, in effect, selling parts.
[30:19.570 --> 30:21.170]  Anybody can buy any Radio Shack.
[30:21.370 --> 30:23.870]  He was not representing it as...
[30:23.870 --> 30:26.070]  or encouraging anyone to break any laws.
[30:26.490 --> 30:30.990]  He was not even making software that worked in conjunction with this circuit available to anybody.
[30:31.010 --> 30:45.710]  There were several websites up with software that would make these data slicer circuits demodulate the signals and display mobile data terminal stuff and pager signals and that sort of thing on your computer screen.
[30:45.970 --> 30:50.970]  But almost all those websites are gone now since this case happened a couple of weeks ago.
[30:51.130 --> 30:53.170]  There's only one site left in the UK.
[30:53.170 --> 30:54.490]  I don't know the URL for it.
[30:54.570 --> 30:56.190]  So, there's been a real chilling effect here.
[30:56.450 --> 30:57.090]  Yeah, exactly.
[30:57.210 --> 31:09.410]  And I told Bill that's probably what one of the intents of the Secret Service and these other agencies is, is to scare everybody, even though there's no case law that says a piece of software in and of itself is illegal.
[31:10.350 --> 31:11.910]  Well, it's my case, anyway.
[31:13.170 --> 31:19.530]  And so, just out of fear, people took their websites down or at least took the software off their websites so people couldn't download it.
[31:20.030 --> 31:22.190]  This is getting worse by the year.
[31:22.850 --> 31:24.570]  We know where they're heading with this.
[31:24.650 --> 31:32.330]  We know they want to make it illegal to tune your radio to certain frequencies and to try to demodulate certain radio signals.
[31:33.190 --> 31:40.290]  But this way of doing it, this way of selectively prosecuting people and putting the fear of the Lord into everybody else, I mean, people know about your case, Bernie.
[31:40.390 --> 31:41.390]  They know what happened to you.
[31:42.210 --> 31:44.010]  And they don't want that to happen to them.
[31:44.030 --> 31:58.170]  And if it means they're going to take down their website or stop participating in a particular activity, which really doesn't seem illegal, but because they can be prosecuted for it, you know, they'll stop doing that rather than risk going to prison.
[31:58.390 --> 31:59.650]  I can't say I blame them.
[31:59.650 --> 32:05.370]  But it's a definite chilling effect on what I believe is constitutionally protected speech.
[32:05.870 --> 32:06.110]  Mm-hmm.
[32:06.210 --> 32:06.710]  Of course.
[32:07.090 --> 32:08.230]  I mean, basically, what are we talking about here?
[32:08.290 --> 32:11.790]  We're talking about somebody with electronic equipment monitoring airwaves.
[32:11.850 --> 32:20.810]  We're not talking about somebody plotting and scheming to destroy Western civilization or do anything bad or nasty, but that's basically curiosity about technology.
[32:20.810 --> 32:25.270]  And it's important to note that these police frequencies are...
[32:25.270 --> 32:30.490]  There's no laws at all that make it illegal to listen to these frequencies.
[32:30.650 --> 32:36.470]  In some states or cities, it's illegal to have a scanner in your car to keep you from ambulance chasing, that sort of thing.
[32:36.630 --> 32:48.850]  But there's no laws yet, I'm sure they're planning this, that make it any kind of a state or federal crime to monitor unencrypted, in-the-clear public service communications.
[32:48.850 --> 32:52.710]  Now, these mobile data terminal transmissions, by the way, are not encrypted.
[32:52.970 --> 32:55.350]  It's a standard in-the-clear ASCII text.
[32:55.770 --> 32:59.530]  So it makes it pretty easy to monitor.
[32:59.530 --> 33:09.970]  And there's no reason why citizens shouldn't be able to monitor these communications, in my mind, to keep police from abusing their authority.
[33:09.970 --> 33:14.950]  At least you can keep tabs on some of what they're doing, which I think is important in a democracy.
[33:14.950 --> 33:20.110]  But it seems that law enforcement agencies don't want people knowing what they're doing.
[33:20.530 --> 33:37.270]  Well, now, that's interesting that you should raise the point that it's not illegal because, obviously, they did succeed in making it illegal for people to listen in on cellular phone calls, even though that's completely unencrypted, too, as an excuse for saying that they are protecting people by saying it's illegal to listen.
[33:38.010 --> 33:39.110]  They got away with that.
[33:39.210 --> 33:40.650]  They actually managed to make that a law.
[33:40.730 --> 33:44.070]  It's completely unenforceable, except that they want to selectively prosecute people.
[33:44.070 --> 33:53.170]  But now they seem to want to extend that a little further so that we're not allowed to listen in on the police or anyone else that they say we're not allowed to listen in on.
[33:53.710 --> 33:56.590]  And really, you know, the only way to fight that is to break the law.
[33:56.710 --> 33:59.950]  But when you break the law, then, of course, you're open to selective prosecution.
[34:00.470 --> 34:11.530]  I think, you know, in situations like this, it's really our responsibility to break the law as a large group, not just one person who will be selectively prosecuted, but thousands of people all over the place.
[34:11.530 --> 34:12.270]  I mean, look at that.
[34:12.270 --> 34:12.850]  I got to Long Island.
[34:13.030 --> 34:14.230]  Recently, I got to Long Island.
[34:14.390 --> 34:15.590]  I don't have his website.
[34:15.710 --> 34:22.330]  But he posted some of these mobile data terminal transmissions on his website, something like 50 pages of them.
[34:22.470 --> 34:23.270]  Well, that's how this started.
[34:23.370 --> 34:23.730]  And he was prosecuted.
[34:23.810 --> 34:31.270]  And I think that was not too smart because there's been laws since 1934 with the Communications Act in 1934 that said that you can listen.
[34:31.370 --> 34:32.030]  And it was a good law.
[34:32.170 --> 34:32.930]  It said you could listen.
[34:33.030 --> 34:35.490]  And it was in effect until pretty, you know, 10 years ago.
[34:35.890 --> 34:46.390]  Any citizen could listen to any radio transmission they wanted to as long as they didn't divulge what they heard to anybody else or personally profit from what they heard or monitored.
[34:47.010 --> 34:48.430]  And that seemed to make sense.
[34:49.270 --> 34:59.130]  Well, I'm not sure I understand what's so bad about listening in on a public frequency with police and people like that and divulging what you hear on there.
[34:59.230 --> 35:05.710]  I mean, if you hear an emergency call about something going on and you phone in a tip to a local newspaper, aren't you, in fact, breaking that law?
[35:05.910 --> 35:06.470]  You are.
[35:06.730 --> 35:07.030]  Yes.
[35:07.030 --> 35:08.970]  Well, I don't understand the purpose of that.
[35:10.070 --> 35:11.410]  It's a protection of privacy.
[35:11.670 --> 35:14.290]  But there's no privacy in a public unencrypted transmission.
[35:14.530 --> 35:21.570]  It's like us saying right here on the radio, people listening are not allowed to talk about what we're talking about or tell anybody at risk of prosecution.
[35:21.750 --> 35:22.770]  Think how bizarre that would be.
[35:22.970 --> 35:30.370]  The Communications Act of 1984 did not differentiate between public service transmissions or private transmissions.
[35:30.630 --> 35:33.110]  It just said anybody can listen to whatever they wanted to.
[35:33.330 --> 35:40.650]  This was before radio encryption was common commercially, although the military had been using it long since radio has been around, I guess.
[35:41.110 --> 35:42.910]  But that law has been a fact.
[35:43.090 --> 35:50.370]  You can't divulge anything you hear on a non-broadcast frequency, like AM, FM broadcast frequencies or exempt.
[35:51.210 --> 35:54.070]  And that seemed to make sense to a certain extent.
[35:54.110 --> 36:00.330]  But I think public frequencies should be public because this is the public's airways.
[36:00.330 --> 36:02.930]  These are public servants who are supposedly serving the public.
[36:02.930 --> 36:05.610]  There's no reason the public shouldn't know what they're doing.
[36:06.250 --> 36:07.990]  But I think the police think otherwise.
[36:08.910 --> 36:09.050]  All right.
[36:09.090 --> 36:10.890]  Well, the police don't own the airwaves.
[36:11.090 --> 36:12.230]  The public own the airwaves.
[36:12.310 --> 36:13.830]  In fact, nobody really owns the airwaves.
[36:13.890 --> 36:14.830]  The airwaves just exist.
[36:14.990 --> 36:17.170]  It's like saying who owns the sky, who owns the stars.
[36:18.350 --> 36:22.250]  So, obviously, you have to challenge these things.
[36:22.430 --> 36:28.650]  And the only way to really get across that it's wrong is if a lot of people challenge them at the same time.
[36:28.750 --> 36:35.330]  That's what happened here in New York a few weeks ago and a lot of people challenged Mayor Giuliani and actually, you know, all the charges were dropped.
[36:35.610 --> 36:39.970]  I don't know if people know about this, but when I got arrested a few weeks ago, I'm scot-free.
[36:40.230 --> 36:45.610]  I've been arrested three times now and I still don't have a record because every time I've gotten arrested, the charges got dropped because...
[36:45.610 --> 36:46.950]  We don't have an official record.
[36:47.090 --> 36:47.910]  I think that you are.
[36:47.930 --> 36:53.570]  Yeah, well, even if I never got arrested once, I think I'd have all kinds of records with various agencies, but we won't go into that.
[36:53.750 --> 36:55.630]  You have an arrest record, but not a conviction record.
[36:55.810 --> 36:56.790]  Something like that, yeah.
[36:56.990 --> 36:57.570]  Something like that.
[36:58.130 --> 37:02.170]  But in any event, the thing is, the public does have a voice.
[37:02.290 --> 37:05.530]  They always try to tell you that people do not matter.
[37:05.670 --> 37:06.850]  People don't make a difference.
[37:07.450 --> 37:08.710]  And it's a lie.
[37:08.950 --> 37:11.950]  It is an incredible lie and everybody falls for it.
[37:12.170 --> 37:19.150]  You know, I was really honored to see a couple of weeks ago the science fiction writer Harlan Ellison over at Stony Brook.
[37:19.330 --> 37:19.530]  Really?
[37:19.670 --> 37:20.770]  Yeah, he gave a talk.
[37:20.890 --> 37:23.750]  It's always fascinating whenever he gives a talk to a crowd of people.
[37:23.870 --> 37:27.750]  And one of the things he said, not necessarily has anything to do with science fiction, but one of the things he says with that.
[37:28.250 --> 37:29.130]  Basically the same thing.
[37:29.250 --> 37:30.690]  You're letting this happen to you.
[37:30.810 --> 37:33.890]  It used to be years ago that information was free.
[37:34.050 --> 37:38.530]  It didn't cost anything to connect information and find out someone's phone number.
[37:38.930 --> 37:40.790]  And now, you have to pay for it.
[37:40.850 --> 37:41.510]  And you accept it.
[37:41.630 --> 37:44.410]  It used to be you could use an ATM without having to pay a fee.
[37:44.630 --> 37:45.470]  Now you have to pay a fee.
[37:45.570 --> 37:46.830]  You have to pay a fee twice, in fact.
[37:46.970 --> 37:47.790]  And you accept it.
[37:47.850 --> 37:48.970]  You let this happen to you.
[37:49.110 --> 37:52.070]  They tell you that nothing you do can change things.
[37:52.250 --> 37:54.150]  They tell you that the individual doesn't matter.
[37:54.150 --> 37:59.950]  But he went on to list all these times where he's been a real pain in the ass about something, and he's fought something.
[38:00.070 --> 38:10.090]  Whether it's a trivial issue with a department store or something major involving immigrations, he fought it, and he stuck with it, and he won every time.
[38:10.210 --> 38:14.110]  And I think that's a very important thing to remember, that people do matter.
[38:14.250 --> 38:15.290]  People do make a difference.
[38:17.190 --> 38:19.330]  All right, I'm stepping down off the soapbox now.
[38:19.330 --> 38:21.010]  I can't follow up after that.
[38:23.230 --> 38:24.870]  Sounds like they're jamming your signal there, Bernie.
[38:25.510 --> 38:25.810]  Touche.
[38:26.070 --> 38:26.590]  Yeah, all right.
[38:26.670 --> 38:36.550]  Well, on that note, I should point out also that with the Kevin Mitnick campaign, we are in the process of planning demonstrations that will be taking place in the coming weeks.
[38:36.550 --> 38:46.870]  And what we're going to do is next week on this show, one week from tonight, we're going to announce the official, I guess, what's going to be happening, when, where, how, that kind of a thing.
[38:46.870 --> 38:55.110]  So you might want to stay tuned to the website as well, www.freekevin.com, and there'll be information posted on there, probably within a couple of days.
[38:55.110 --> 39:00.610]  But next week on this radio program, if you don't have access to the net, be sure to tune in and we'll tell people what's going on.
[39:00.630 --> 39:02.650]  Remember, the sentencing is June 14th.
[39:02.650 --> 39:06.450]  June 14th, it's the sentencing, and really the crux of the matter is this.
[39:06.630 --> 39:26.870]  The judge has the ability to either put Kevin in prison for another year, as this quote-unquote agreement states, the agreement that he was pretty much forced into signing because it was either that or face another 10 years in prison, and without full access to evidence and other things that were needed to defend oneself.
[39:27.590 --> 39:33.550]  But she also has the ability to sentence him immediately, as of June 14th, to a halfway house.
[39:33.670 --> 39:39.930]  And what that means is, if Kevin is put in a halfway house, he actually is back in society to a degree.
[39:39.930 --> 39:44.390]  He can walk down a street, he can talk to people, he can do little things.
[39:44.510 --> 39:47.790]  Bernie, I'm sure you can explain to people how much they mean to you when you get out of prison.
[39:48.010 --> 39:52.430]  Just things like walking into a store, conversing with people on the streets, seeing the sky.
[39:52.750 --> 39:53.670]  It's unbelievable.
[39:53.950 --> 39:55.030]  It's like being reborn.
[39:56.570 --> 39:59.430]  And that's not giving it full justice.
[40:00.330 --> 40:10.010]  People just can't possibly appreciate the small little freedoms we have in life, what little we have left, that is, until they've lost every one of them.
[40:10.070 --> 40:12.790]  And when you're in federal prison, you have lost all of them.
[40:13.690 --> 40:14.330]  That's right.
[40:15.130 --> 40:16.790]  It's just an amazing contrast.
[40:17.290 --> 40:19.390]  And I haven't lost that.
[40:19.430 --> 40:24.430]  But I vowed to myself just when I got out that I would never forget what that was like.
[40:25.930 --> 40:27.930]  Because I appreciate life a lot more now.
[40:28.210 --> 40:32.790]  And I don't say I owe it all to the feds, but I know what they're capable of now.
[40:32.950 --> 40:37.070]  But in a positive aspect, it's made me appreciate life a lot more.
[40:37.510 --> 40:45.890]  And consider that you were locked up for a total of almost two years, but there was a break in between two of those times.
[40:45.890 --> 40:50.570]  Kevin has been in prison nonstop since February 15, 1995.
[40:51.210 --> 40:51.970]  I can't imagine.
[40:52.190 --> 40:53.410]  It's just unbelievable.
[40:54.310 --> 40:58.670]  The worst part in his situation is the not knowing.
[40:58.850 --> 41:00.210]  And that was the worst part of my case.
[41:00.250 --> 41:03.850]  Until my release, until the day I was out, I didn't know when I was going to get out.
[41:04.070 --> 41:07.850]  So you just didn't know how long this hell was going to last.
[41:07.850 --> 41:12.350]  You know, I envy the other people who have been sentenced, and they had a release date to look forward to.
[41:12.550 --> 41:15.610]  But when you don't have one, it's just... it's pure torture.
[41:16.110 --> 41:18.890]  And he still doesn't have that date to look forward to yet.
[41:19.050 --> 41:29.550]  And you have to understand what's one of the reasons why, and I think, Bernie, you can attest to this, it's one of the reasons why people sign those agreements, is to put closure on it, to say, I know now it's going to end at some point.
[41:29.630 --> 41:37.610]  Even if I have to say that, you know, I'm a communist or whatever, I'm just going to say it so I can get out of this, and at least have some hope of my life starting again.
[41:37.910 --> 41:47.910]  But for people who think that the campaign is over, it's far from over because Kevin is still suffering, we still have to get him out of there, and start piecing his life back together again.
[41:48.570 --> 41:49.550]  And, you know, I really...
[41:49.550 --> 41:51.810]  I can't understand why people would think that that doesn't matter.
[41:52.290 --> 41:53.170]  You know, it's...
[41:53.170 --> 41:57.790]  What kind of a crime do you have to commit to be in prison since February of 1995?
[41:58.870 --> 42:03.830]  You know, and actually, in all seriousness, be given another year on top of that.
[42:04.310 --> 42:09.050]  You know, this is for someone who didn't steal anything, didn't cause damage, isn't violent.
[42:09.370 --> 42:10.930]  You know, what are we talking about here?
[42:11.010 --> 42:12.330]  And what does this bode for the future?
[42:13.230 --> 42:14.270]  Could be anyone else.
[42:14.970 --> 42:15.650]  Not at all.
[42:16.070 --> 42:17.350]  All right, we're going to take some phone calls.
[42:17.450 --> 42:19.450]  212-209-2900.
[42:19.610 --> 42:20.090]  We have Bernie S.
[42:20.190 --> 42:21.870]  with us on the line from Philadelphia.
[42:22.190 --> 42:23.550]  We have Isaac here in the studio.
[42:24.550 --> 42:28.530]  And, well, I guess now we have you on the phone with us.
[42:28.590 --> 42:28.870]  Good evening.
[42:29.350 --> 42:30.330]  Yes, hi, good evening.
[42:31.210 --> 42:39.690]  I don't know what the subject is, but I just want to say, after the great Russians, it was the Serbs that defended and fought for the jewish people.
[42:43.670 --> 42:49.210]  And the thing bothers me that I see so many jewish people are anti-SERB.
[42:49.490 --> 42:50.730]  What's going on?
[42:50.870 --> 42:55.050]  Because all of the Muslims in Yugoslavia fought on the side of Nazis.
[42:55.330 --> 42:55.970]  They collaborated.
[42:56.370 --> 42:57.250]  I know it, man.
[42:57.250 --> 42:58.450]  I was born in Bosnia.
[42:58.650 --> 43:00.290]  I happened to be Croats.
[43:00.470 --> 43:05.230]  My father happened to be in the service of a Croatian government between 1941 and 1945.
[43:05.230 --> 43:06.610]  But, man, I love this.
[43:06.610 --> 43:07.290]  Wait, wait, wait.
[43:07.470 --> 43:09.530]  You say you're Croatian?
[43:09.710 --> 43:11.250]  I happened to be Croat.
[43:11.550 --> 43:13.370]  Well, weren't the Croats on the side of the Nazis?
[43:14.290 --> 43:15.670]  Yeah, those were Stasis.
[43:16.070 --> 43:16.430]  Okay.
[43:16.790 --> 43:18.370]  And my father was a partisan.
[43:18.630 --> 43:20.850]  He spied for the partisanship.
[43:21.490 --> 43:28.130]  Even though he worked for Andrzej Ivica Ferkowicz, who was a minister of forestry under Pavelic government.
[43:28.450 --> 43:31.790]  My father was a spy and so forth.
[43:32.470 --> 43:33.990]  Technically, we were Dalmatians.
[43:34.230 --> 43:37.770]  Dalmatians, 90% fought to the Yugoslav Serbs.
[43:38.790 --> 43:41.110]  Just wait until the Dalmatians get started on this.
[43:41.250 --> 43:47.230]  You're not going to believe what kind of hassles we have once there's Dalmatians involved.
[43:47.230 --> 43:47.670]  Oh, boy.
[43:48.210 --> 43:53.210]  Well, it's slightly off topic, but I understand it's of concern to a lot of people.
[43:53.350 --> 43:53.930]  Bernie, you still there?
[43:54.350 --> 43:54.710]  Yes.
[43:54.930 --> 43:55.170]  All right.
[43:55.250 --> 43:56.650]  Now, you don't have any response to that caller, do you?
[43:57.790 --> 43:59.090]  I don't think he had all the response.
[43:59.770 --> 44:00.130]  Okay.
[44:01.210 --> 44:01.870]  All right.
[44:01.950 --> 44:03.430]  Well, I'm sure you'll be getting letters about that one.
[44:03.630 --> 44:04.490]  It's Bernie S.
[44:04.630 --> 44:05.630]  Kerr off the hook.
[44:06.110 --> 44:07.210]  Not 505, but the avenue.
[44:07.730 --> 44:08.690]  120 Wall Street.
[44:09.110 --> 44:09.610]  New York, New York.
[44:09.710 --> 44:10.470]  What's the zip code here?
[44:10.990 --> 44:12.490]  1-0-0-0-something.
[44:12.670 --> 44:13.230]  Five, I think?
[44:13.410 --> 44:14.090]  Yeah, just pick one.
[44:14.210 --> 44:15.730]  Yeah, it's down here on Wall Street.
[44:16.450 --> 44:17.550]  Let's take another call.
[44:17.690 --> 44:23.050]  Maybe this one will be a pro-Kosovo call, but let's try to stay on the subject, all right?
[44:23.330 --> 44:26.470]  There's plenty of talk shows that can talk about what's going on in the rest of the world.
[44:26.910 --> 44:27.450]  Good evening.
[44:27.570 --> 44:28.010]  You're on the air.
[44:29.030 --> 44:29.390]  Hello?
[44:29.610 --> 44:30.290]  Yeah, speak up, please.
[44:31.010 --> 44:31.370]  Yes.
[44:32.730 --> 44:42.370]  You were referring to the one website that has that decoding software, the remaining one in the U.K., because all the others once have came down?
[44:42.590 --> 44:43.110]  You have it.
[44:43.110 --> 44:43.750]  Yes, you have that URL?
[44:44.470 --> 44:45.390]  Yes, it is.
[44:45.390 --> 44:45.510]  Oh.
[44:46.070 --> 44:48.310]  K-M-E-D-7-0.
[44:49.370 --> 44:57.350]  Actually, it's www.kmed70.freeserve.co.uk.
[44:58.650 --> 44:59.290]  Okay.
[44:59.470 --> 44:59.610]  One more time.
[44:59.790 --> 45:00.150]  One more time.
[45:00.910 --> 45:01.470]  Okay.
[45:01.950 --> 45:12.270]  K-M-E-D-7-0.freeserve, F-R-E-E-S-E-R-V-E, .co.uk.
[45:13.690 --> 45:14.050]  Okay.
[45:14.190 --> 45:14.230]  Okay.
[45:14.530 --> 45:15.350]  Thanks very much for the info.
[45:15.630 --> 45:16.270]  No problem.
[45:16.510 --> 45:16.730]  All right.
[45:16.790 --> 45:23.290]  Just yet another proof that BAI listeners are really in touch with what's going on out there, and we got that information right away.
[45:23.790 --> 45:24.110]  Excellent.
[45:24.290 --> 45:25.710]  Well, how do you know he wasn't listening from the net?
[45:26.110 --> 45:28.910]  Well, he's a BAI listener regardless if he's on the net or if he's on the radio.
[45:28.910 --> 45:29.330]  Well, that's true.
[45:29.330 --> 45:29.770]  You know, listen to the radio.
[45:29.970 --> 45:31.510]  You know, we treat all our listeners the same.
[45:31.710 --> 45:31.810]  Sure.
[45:32.910 --> 45:42.630]  Bernie, now, we have something interesting that we're trying to work out as far as connectivity in a wireless manner, and actually through an unlikely partner, Bell Atlantic.
[45:42.630 --> 45:43.590]  Do you want to tell us something about this?
[45:43.790 --> 45:44.350]  Of all people.
[45:44.770 --> 45:47.310]  Isaac, do you know anything about AirBridge services yet?
[45:47.590 --> 45:48.790]  A little bit.
[45:48.910 --> 45:49.130]  Why?
[45:49.230 --> 45:49.610]  What's up?
[45:49.890 --> 45:55.310]  Well, apparently, Bell Atlantic recently announced a flat-rate wireless data service.
[45:55.450 --> 45:58.510]  Well, they've had AirBridge for a while, but they haven't had a flat rate.
[45:58.750 --> 46:10.330]  Now, for a fixed $40 a month, you can get a continuous 19.2 kilobit per second TCP IP connection.
[46:10.330 --> 46:11.050]  Ooh.
[46:11.310 --> 46:11.630]  Now, wait.
[46:11.850 --> 46:16.610]  There's really no other charges here, $40 a month, and there's no per-minute thing going on?
[46:16.690 --> 46:18.570]  I talked to several people at Bell Atlantic.
[46:18.790 --> 46:23.490]  They assure me you can be connected 24-7 all month long, and it's a $40 fee.
[46:23.870 --> 46:28.990]  See, I'm always wary of things like that, because I went through the whole ISDN nightmare, you know, with the penny-a-minute thing.
[46:29.430 --> 46:36.450]  I always think that there's something they're going to tell you at the last minute when it's too late to back out, that, oh, yeah, by the way, there's a $450 administrative fee or something.
[46:36.450 --> 46:36.770]  I don't know.
[46:37.090 --> 46:37.910]  Something like that.
[46:37.910 --> 46:48.810]  But if it's true, if it's true, the implications are staggering, because it means that we can finally do something like run a website out of the 2600 van, complete with a camera pointing out the window so that you always know where we are.
[46:48.990 --> 46:50.310]  Well, it is a 19.2 connection.
[46:50.330 --> 46:52.070]  I don't know how much you're going to be able to do.
[46:52.450 --> 46:54.670]  Well, you know, it's a 19.2 connection.
[46:54.830 --> 46:59.270]  You can transmit, like, one frame to the normal web server every couple of minutes.
[46:59.630 --> 47:00.030]  That's fine.
[47:00.030 --> 47:00.790]  That's still very cool.
[47:00.790 --> 47:04.450]  If that's all it does is transmit to the normal web server, then there's only traffic going one way.
[47:05.470 --> 47:06.230]  That's fairly cool.
[47:06.370 --> 47:06.430]  Yeah.
[47:06.810 --> 47:08.410]  I'm $40 a month.
[47:08.630 --> 47:09.590]  Plus, you could have two of them.
[47:09.610 --> 47:11.030]  You could have two of them going at the same time.
[47:11.210 --> 47:11.690]  That's true.
[47:11.830 --> 47:11.950]  Yeah.
[47:11.950 --> 47:16.530]  It uses the CDPD protocol, a cellular data packet.
[47:16.790 --> 47:17.810]  What does that mean?
[47:18.150 --> 47:18.650]  I forget.
[47:18.950 --> 47:19.450]  I used to know.
[47:19.990 --> 47:31.510]  Anyway, it uses the standard 800 megahertz analog cellular frequencies, but in between conversations is when it zaps these data packets across.
[47:31.610 --> 47:38.970]  And there's enough spare bandwidth in between conversations that you have a continuous 19.2 kilobit per second connection.
[47:38.970 --> 47:40.890]  You have to get special equipment.
[47:40.890 --> 47:48.690]  There are several companies that manufacture what are referred to as CDPD modems, even though they're not really modems, per se.
[47:50.410 --> 47:55.530]  There's some that are just a small dedicated box with a serial interface on it and an antenna.
[47:56.190 --> 47:59.810]  And you've got your IP connection to your serial port on your laptop or whatever.
[48:00.210 --> 48:01.390]  There are some that make...
[48:01.390 --> 48:09.530]  There are several companies that make a PCM CIA card, or PC card as some people call them, that just slips into your notebook, has little antenna sticking out.
[48:09.530 --> 48:11.290]  And you have your connection.
[48:11.610 --> 48:20.630]  I suppose if you're one of the cyber bandits out there, you might be tempted to listen in on that illegal 800 megahertz frequency and look at the non-encoded transmission.
[48:20.910 --> 48:25.090]  Well, the CDPD protocol apparently uses some form of encryption.
[48:25.090 --> 48:26.010]  I don't know what they're using.
[48:26.010 --> 48:32.990]  But, in fact, I'll read off of Beltlanic's website now, which, by the way, it's www.bambeltlanicmobile.com.
[48:33.490 --> 48:38.430]  It says here, CDPD transmits data in small packets over the cellular network.
[48:38.730 --> 48:44.690]  Being fully digital, CDPD has low error rates, higher speed, and generally lower costs than analog wireless connections.
[48:45.550 --> 48:50.850]  Inherent security is provided by CDPD's encryption and other security features.
[48:50.850 --> 49:00.210]  As a result, the Aerolink portion of your data transmission is virtually unscannable and indecipherable to anyone but the intended recipient.
[49:00.390 --> 49:01.670]  Does that mean we can try?
[49:03.210 --> 49:08.190]  Well, actually, it's a federal crime now to listen to anything in the 800 megahertz...
[49:08.190 --> 49:12.110]  So, basically, we just have to take their word for it because we're not allowed to try to break that.
[49:12.330 --> 49:12.750]  That's right.
[49:12.750 --> 49:30.830]  Well, the interesting thing about those wonderful Motorola MDTs, and one of the things that's been happening recently, hush-hush, is that the certain federal agencies who have been using them and state agencies who have been using them, these were effectively sold to said agencies as though they were encrypted,
[49:30.830 --> 49:38.770]  where, you know, it brings new meaning to the word encrypted when a simple XOR becomes a means of encryption.
[49:39.110 --> 49:39.790]  Yeah, that's encryption.
[49:40.250 --> 49:41.810]  Well, yeah, kind of.
[49:43.090 --> 49:44.330]  Well, technically, I suppose...
[49:44.330 --> 49:45.850]  From a marketing standpoint, it's encryption.
[49:46.130 --> 49:46.270]  Yes, yes.
[49:46.410 --> 49:48.970]  Now, Bernie, do you get a static IP with this?
[49:49.190 --> 49:50.630]  You get a static IP.
[49:50.810 --> 49:52.010]  It's yours and yours alone.
[49:52.390 --> 49:52.790]  Wow.
[49:53.050 --> 50:00.070]  And this is the original meaning of static, where it's like a stationary normal IP and not having to do with radio interference, because I know there is a...
[50:00.070 --> 50:01.610]  Yeah, they could mean that, I guess.
[50:01.710 --> 50:02.590]  I don't know about that static.
[50:02.690 --> 50:05.910]  Well, it is a digital transmission, so I imagine there's no static.
[50:06.110 --> 50:08.010]  But, yes, your IP does not change.
[50:08.150 --> 50:10.770]  It is your own IP for $40 a month.
[50:10.770 --> 50:21.590]  It includes internet access, includes the caption, includes a POP3 account, and it includes 5 megs of server space.
[50:21.710 --> 50:22.330]  Okay, I'll tell you this.
[50:22.390 --> 50:22.950]  We're going to try.
[50:23.070 --> 50:24.550]  The Trenton Computer Show is coming up.
[50:24.630 --> 50:26.830]  Trenton Computer Fair is coming up in two weekends.
[50:26.910 --> 50:28.390]  Not this weekend coming up, but the one after that.
[50:28.750 --> 50:32.770]  And we're going to try to have something actually set up in time for that.
[50:32.770 --> 50:38.090]  We're going to have to get a hold of a laptop somehow and get this whole thing started and actually see if we can get it to work.
[50:38.490 --> 50:44.390]  People should be aware of the website for the Trenton Computer Festival, which this year, for the first year ever, is not in Trenton.
[50:44.470 --> 50:44.910]  It's in Edison.
[50:45.290 --> 50:46.010]  Yeah, Edison.
[50:46.010 --> 50:46.650]  That makes sense.
[50:48.270 --> 50:53.970]  It's www.tcftrentoncomputerfestival.com, and that way you can get directions.
[50:54.030 --> 51:06.870]  It's May 1st and 2nd, and I urge everyone to go because it's a huge gathering of computer hackers and people who have been fooling around with making their own computers since the mid-70s.
[51:06.950 --> 51:08.490]  I've got to tell you, Bernie, I have a slight conflict.
[51:08.490 --> 51:13.710]  I think I might only be able to make it there on the Saturday because the 50th anniversary of Pacifica is the day after on Sunday.
[51:13.790 --> 51:14.030]  Uh-oh.
[51:14.030 --> 51:18.490]  And that's something that we certainly can't miss, so we'll try and work that out somehow.
[51:18.770 --> 51:18.970]  Okay.
[51:18.970 --> 51:21.750]  We'll be getting to postpone the 50th anniversary for another month or something.
[51:21.890 --> 51:22.130]  I don't know.
[51:22.810 --> 51:23.350]  We'll see.
[51:23.410 --> 51:23.930]  TCF is that good.
[51:24.090 --> 51:24.910]  Yeah, we'll see what happens.
[51:25.110 --> 51:26.970]  We're going to look into this air bridge service?
[51:27.070 --> 51:28.490]  We're going to try and work it out, yeah.
[51:28.490 --> 51:29.050]  I personally am.
[51:29.050 --> 51:32.410]  We have another week to get things organized, so we'll try and do that.
[51:32.570 --> 51:33.370]  Let's take another phone call.
[51:33.450 --> 51:34.850]  212-209-2900.
[51:34.910 --> 51:35.190]  Good evening.
[51:35.270 --> 51:35.690]  You're on the air.
[51:36.210 --> 51:36.550]  Hi.
[51:37.150 --> 51:48.910]  I heard today at work that someone stole a computer from the insurance company that runs our Deferred Compensation Plan and has been using credit card numbers fraudulently.
[51:49.190 --> 51:50.090]  That's not good.
[51:50.370 --> 51:50.650]  No.
[51:51.450 --> 51:52.810]  Where did you hear this from?
[51:53.250 --> 51:56.850]  Well, I work in Nassau County for the government.
[51:57.870 --> 51:58.610]  Oh, dear.
[51:58.750 --> 51:59.390]  Oh, that's interesting.
[51:59.390 --> 52:15.890]  And they said everybody got a letter, and what's more, they said, you know, everyone should start checking to make sure that they're not, you know, being defrauded, but they said since the telephone number is not working, you can pick up a form so you can mail it in to check if you're being defrauded.
[52:16.490 --> 52:17.910]  Do you have this letter yourself?
[52:18.210 --> 52:19.010]  I don't.
[52:19.190 --> 52:19.490]  Oh, okay.
[52:19.990 --> 52:23.370]  If you get a copy, please fax it to us, because we'd like to see that investigated.
[52:23.630 --> 52:27.550]  And for reference sake, our fax number is 516-474-2677.
[52:27.710 --> 52:29.790]  If anybody gets anything interesting, always.
[52:30.070 --> 52:30.950]  That's the first rule.
[52:31.110 --> 52:31.750]  Fax it to us.
[52:31.830 --> 52:32.010]  Yes.
[52:32.870 --> 52:35.150]  But we'll keep our ears open on that one.
[52:35.430 --> 52:35.650]  Okay.
[52:36.570 --> 52:39.470]  Is this how the government protects your private information?
[52:40.810 --> 52:41.730]  It may be.
[52:41.790 --> 52:43.610]  Well, we've had instances like this before.
[52:43.790 --> 52:52.230]  If you are one of the people, though, rest assured that the credit card companies who are monitoring your transactions will realize that that $5,000 charge is probably not you.
[52:52.650 --> 52:53.450]  Well, that's good to know.
[52:53.630 --> 52:53.890]  Yes.
[52:54.070 --> 53:03.310]  Of course, it also becomes problematic, say, when you're driving across the country and you're making $20 charges every once in a while for gas in a different state, and the computer starts flagging this.
[53:03.310 --> 53:04.490]  Well, that's what happened to me last year.
[53:04.650 --> 53:05.370]  Yeah, you remember that.
[53:05.510 --> 53:06.550]  No, that's why I'm mentioning it.
[53:06.550 --> 53:08.690]  Yeah, that was a nightmarish experience.
[53:09.370 --> 53:10.110]  Second of the phone call.
[53:10.170 --> 53:10.390]  Good evening.
[53:10.470 --> 53:10.850]  You're on the air.
[53:10.970 --> 53:11.170]  Hi, Emmanuel.
[53:11.410 --> 53:11.750]  How are you doing?
[53:11.810 --> 53:12.110]  What's up?
[53:12.290 --> 53:13.310]  I'd just like to know.
[53:13.570 --> 53:14.650]  I'd just like to mention...
[53:14.650 --> 53:15.570]  What are you, in Dub tonight?
[53:15.870 --> 53:16.870]  I hear like three of you.
[53:16.870 --> 53:20.810]  You know, using a Bell Atlantic K-Phone has gotten so annoying.
[53:22.110 --> 53:22.610]  Has it?
[53:22.870 --> 53:23.050]  Yeah.
[53:23.170 --> 53:24.530]  Well, you know, life is difficult.
[53:24.530 --> 53:25.230]  Are you using one right now?
[53:26.010 --> 53:26.470]  I don't know.
[53:26.470 --> 53:27.150]  Are you using one right now?
[53:27.150 --> 53:28.430]  I think that's all he wanted to say.
[53:28.690 --> 53:29.590]  Let's take another phone call.
[53:29.750 --> 53:30.210]  Good evening.
[53:30.330 --> 53:30.990]  You're on the air.
[53:31.550 --> 53:31.910]  Yes.
[53:31.970 --> 53:32.150]  Hi.
[53:32.270 --> 53:33.110]  I'm just on my radio down.
[53:33.210 --> 53:33.430]  Thank you.
[53:33.750 --> 53:33.870]  Hi.
[53:34.730 --> 53:54.890]  Speaking of freedom of speech, on the Internet, Explore there, or AOL, whatever, a lot of times they just kind of cut me off and, you know, don't want to give me the pages, and it comes up, X dash, dollar sign, home, dollar sign, semicolon, and then from that point on,
[53:54.990 --> 53:56.450]  you can't get on any more websites.
[53:56.450 --> 53:59.230]  You have to just basically sign off.
[53:59.350 --> 54:05.310]  And another, it says Internet Explorer script may take too long of a time to run.
[54:05.310 --> 54:11.550]  And system error, and then it has C, system, blank, dash, slash, HTM.
[54:12.890 --> 54:20.010]  Why is it that it decided all of a sudden, you know, or does it come up that way that you get trashed off the line?
[54:20.150 --> 54:21.930]  It sounds like a problem with your setup.
[54:22.430 --> 54:28.670]  And it's probably, you probably get a better answer to this by calling the personal computer people, because it's the kind of thing they deal with.
[54:28.790 --> 54:29.010]  All right.
[54:29.010 --> 54:29.810]  Are you familiar with that show?
[54:30.070 --> 54:31.330]  Are you an AOL customer?
[54:31.650 --> 54:35.970]  Yes, yes, the full boat, 2195 in Long Venus.
[54:36.670 --> 54:38.070]  It could be an AOL problem.
[54:38.130 --> 54:40.370]  It could be an AOL problem, but I suggest calling them.
[54:40.610 --> 54:41.930]  They're on tomorrow night.
[54:42.050 --> 54:46.090]  In fact, in 24 hours from now, 8 to 9 is their program, the personal computer show.
[54:46.250 --> 54:53.310]  And they always are very helpful as far as figuring out things like that, because all kinds of bizarre things happen with setups and things like that.
[54:53.450 --> 54:54.270]  But thanks for calling.
[54:54.330 --> 54:55.370]  Let's see if we can fit in another one.
[54:55.690 --> 54:56.130]  Good evening.
[54:56.230 --> 54:56.690]  You're on the air.
[54:56.690 --> 55:06.070]  Hi, I was wondering if the FCC has ever passed a law that says that all radio stations have a universal right to compete with one another.
[55:06.590 --> 55:08.310]  A right to compete with one another?
[55:08.410 --> 55:08.670]  I'm not sure.
[55:09.030 --> 55:09.850]  Universal right.
[55:09.930 --> 55:11.470]  In other words, bumper cars.
[55:11.470 --> 55:12.510]  That's a new concept.
[55:12.790 --> 55:14.450]  Or actually, it's a very, very old one.
[55:14.830 --> 55:21.670]  Or you could just say maybe radio stations should have the same rights as a seagull when he looks for food.
[55:21.670 --> 55:24.850]  No guarantees as provided by nature.
[55:24.850 --> 55:27.030]  I don't think it says that in the FCC rules.
[55:27.150 --> 55:29.090]  I don't think there's any reference to bumper cars or seagulls, no.
[55:29.230 --> 55:32.010]  But what's your concern on this, sir?
[55:32.070 --> 55:45.390]  Well, I was just thinking you can probably find it under the article that says there's no need for government agencies to regulate freedom of speech over Marconi's earwaves.
[55:46.250 --> 55:48.030]  Oh, another thing, quick topic.
[55:48.230 --> 55:48.410]  Yes.
[55:49.410 --> 55:52.370]  As a general guide is how to do pirate radio.
[55:52.690 --> 56:01.810]  We're linking up services that were never meant to connect to each other as devised by the FCC.
[56:01.990 --> 56:09.670]  And it's going to be a new quantum leap in the tag and find thing in pirate radio.
[56:09.670 --> 56:09.690]  Yeah.
[56:10.290 --> 56:10.870]  Sounds cool.
[56:11.650 --> 56:17.470]  You know, CBs, modified CBs, pirate, other types of pirate radio.
[56:17.830 --> 56:18.230]  Shortwave?
[56:18.430 --> 56:18.990]  And things like that.
[56:19.110 --> 56:20.450]  Yeah, shortwave and things like that.
[56:20.830 --> 56:21.690]  And automation.
[56:22.130 --> 56:25.110]  And, you know, the studio's not where the transmitter is.
[56:25.310 --> 56:25.970]  Stay tuned.
[56:26.090 --> 56:27.350]  But I can't say too much on the air.
[56:27.410 --> 56:27.550]  Okay.
[56:28.070 --> 56:28.430]  All right.
[56:28.590 --> 56:29.390]  Thanks for calling.
[56:29.390 --> 56:35.090]  There's a lot of interesting things you can do to keep your transmitter away from your studio, which is away from your people who make the tapes.
[56:35.590 --> 56:37.350]  And you've got to get more and more tricky.
[56:37.350 --> 56:45.610]  How important radio is, how important free speech over that radio is, and always be wary of the people that try to take away that free speech, because they've got an agenda.
[56:45.850 --> 56:46.550]  It's an evil one.
[56:46.850 --> 56:47.810]  Happens almost every time.
[56:48.270 --> 56:49.570]  Let's take one more phone call.
[56:49.670 --> 56:49.990]  Good evening.
[56:50.130 --> 56:50.810]  You're on the air.
[56:51.950 --> 56:52.270]  Hello?
[56:52.810 --> 56:54.250]  You've got to speak up a lot louder than that.
[56:55.590 --> 56:55.910]  Okay.
[56:55.970 --> 57:00.130]  You probably have the worst phone connection ever, so we're going to have to skip over you and go all the way down here.
[57:00.210 --> 57:00.490]  Good evening.
[57:00.630 --> 57:01.170]  You're on the air.
[57:03.150 --> 57:03.470]  Okay.
[57:03.550 --> 57:05.290]  You're going to have to learn how to move a lot faster.
[57:05.290 --> 57:05.930]  Let's go over here.
[57:06.030 --> 57:06.370]  Good evening.
[57:06.550 --> 57:07.110]  You're on the air.
[57:07.110 --> 57:07.670]  Hi, Emanuel.
[57:07.970 --> 57:09.830]  And you're going to have to learn to be a different person.
[57:09.990 --> 57:10.610]  Let's go over here.
[57:10.610 --> 57:10.990]  Good evening.
[57:11.110 --> 57:11.690]  You're on the air.
[57:12.270 --> 57:12.670]  Yes, hi.
[57:13.250 --> 57:16.730]  I just wanted to find out, you mentioned something before about people not being able to get online.
[57:16.930 --> 57:17.210]  Uh-huh.
[57:18.170 --> 57:20.230]  And I work in a company right now.
[57:21.010 --> 57:24.830]  I'm in charge of a lot of computers and a lot of networks and a lot of purchasing new equipment and whatever.
[57:25.170 --> 57:33.510]  And I'd like to be able to donate some of the equipment I have, you know, 486s and such, to get to people that can't get online, you know, can't get computer access.
[57:34.070 --> 57:41.730]  I'm just trying to find out where I can get some of those equipment donated and how I can help out in this struggle for freedom on the Internet.
[57:41.970 --> 57:42.470]  Well, go ahead, Tyson.
[57:42.650 --> 57:44.090]  There are a bunch of groups.
[57:44.910 --> 57:47.170]  One comes to mind specifically in the city.
[57:50.050 --> 57:54.470]  The LXNY, it's a free open source group here in the city.
[57:54.650 --> 58:08.250]  They are actually participating with another program, who I really wish I remember the name of it, where they take 46s like this, put a free Unix on their free operating system, and give them to kids in the public schools in order that they may have computers to work with.
[58:09.890 --> 58:12.630]  I believe you can reach them at LXNY.org.
[58:12.730 --> 58:13.010]  Okay.
[58:13.170 --> 58:14.250]  I hope that's the address.
[58:14.370 --> 58:17.110]  Yeah, if you have any trouble, email us, OTH at 2600.com.
[58:17.150 --> 58:17.970]  Yeah, we can get that to you.
[58:18.010 --> 58:20.390]  And we'll definitely hook you up with that.
[58:20.390 --> 58:20.530]  Kudos.
[58:20.790 --> 58:22.070]  Thanks for calling.
[58:22.350 --> 58:22.570]  No problem.
[58:22.590 --> 58:25.790]  And again, for those people who have old computer equipment out there, never throw it away.
[58:26.030 --> 58:26.770]  It's sacrilege.
[58:26.870 --> 58:28.050]  Do not ever throw anything old out.
[58:28.050 --> 58:41.330]  Even if it's from the 1970s, don't throw it... 1960s, don't throw anything out, because there's always somebody who wants this stuff, whether it's phone equipment, computer equipment, whatnot, there's always somebody who's interested in it, so don't ever throw anything like that out.
[58:41.430 --> 58:42.330]  Okay, that's it for tonight.
[58:42.510 --> 58:43.690]  We're going to be back again next week.
[58:43.750 --> 58:47.210]  Bernie S., thank you very much for joining us and informing us of all these things.
[58:47.830 --> 58:49.030]  And Isaac, thank you for coming in.
[58:49.670 --> 58:53.750]  We'll have more information next week on the Kevin Mitnick rallies.
[58:54.270 --> 58:59.730]  And note, I said that plural, so there's going to be some interesting things going on in the weeks ahead, so stay tuned.
[59:00.030 --> 59:03.750]  And keep up to date on the website as well, www.freekevin.com.
[59:03.870 --> 59:05.850]  Email us, OTH at 2600.com.
[59:06.030 --> 59:08.410]  Until next week, it's Emmanuel Goldstein for Off The Hook.
[59:08.590 --> 59:09.010]  Good night.
[59:12.050 --> 59:33.770]  The telephone keeps ringing So I ripped it off the wall I cut myself while shaving Now I can't make a cough It couldn't get much worse But if they could, they would Bum-diddly-bom For the best, expect the worst I hope that's understood Bum-diddly-bom
[59:54.350 --> 01:00:16.430]  Pacifica Radio celebrates 50 years of radio with vision Before the 1980s, the term domestic violence was largely unknown in the United States And women who were beaten by their husbands or boyfriends rarely spoke up One of the first places they did speak was on Pacifica Radio Here are some of the earliest public statements from battered women But he'd always say,
[01:00:16.570 --> 01:00:24.190]  I made him do it He used to beat me up all the time for no reason He just would freak out He'd just get in moods, I don't know Or upset him off Did you ever threaten to leave him?
[01:00:24.630 --> 01:00:26.550]  Oh, yes Where am I going to go?
[01:00:27.070 --> 01:00:55.390]  I'm too proud to go home And too ashamed to admit that this has been happening to me He wanted to control all my actions He wanted to control all the people I was around Matter of fact, he didn't want me around anyone else He wanted my life to be totally directed towards him Battered women speaking out on Pacifica Radio in 1982 I'm Verna Avery Brown We invite you to celebrate the 50th anniversary
[01:00:55.390 --> 01:01:06.870]  of the founding of Pacifica Radio Join many distinguished activists, authors, musicians, WBAI personalities, and friends On Sunday, May 2nd from 4 to 7 p.m.
[01:01:07.190 --> 01:01:29.810]  at the historic Riverside Church in New York City For ticket information, please call the WBAI hotline at 212-209-2960 That's 212-209-2960 This is WBAI 99.5 FM in New York Stay tuned for Tahrir