[00:02.220 --> 00:02.720]  Got it.
[00:03.260 --> 00:08.360]  And quite frankly, Jerry, I want to bleed you dry, my friend.
[00:08.460 --> 00:11.280]  I want to put it out there because I think this is all so important.
[00:11.900 --> 00:14.600]  And Jerry's book is Honor for Sale.
[00:14.780 --> 00:16.140]  And tell people how they can get it, Jerry.
[00:16.140 --> 00:20.800]  Well, it's right now in your Borders bookstores, in your Barnes and Nobles.
[00:21.620 --> 00:23.720]  They've already been selling out very well.
[00:23.840 --> 00:32.580]  You can also get it for Amazon.com or even on my website, HonorForSale.com, which puts you right into the Amazon.com.
[00:32.960 --> 00:33.120]  Yeah.
[00:33.440 --> 00:39.060]  But, you know, just to say something, Mike, it wasn't written... This book is a catharsis, Mike.
[00:39.240 --> 00:39.460]  Sure.
[00:39.460 --> 00:41.500]  It seared in me for many, many years.
[00:41.620 --> 00:43.920]  I almost did this 15 years ago with Nick Pelleggi.
[00:44.120 --> 00:52.120]  But every day I would speak to Nick, that month we were together, it hurt me every day to talk about these dark and lousy times.
[00:52.520 --> 00:55.700]  And the police department should be ashamed of itself.
[00:55.960 --> 00:59.060]  And John Walsh at that time that knew the whole place was corrupt.
[00:59.160 --> 01:03.820]  As a matter of fact, he had a list of 72 corrupt detectives given to him by the federal government.
[01:04.040 --> 01:05.540]  And they said, clean your own house.
[01:05.680 --> 01:07.340]  And John Walsh said, clean your own house.
[01:07.460 --> 01:08.500]  Don't worry about our house.
[01:08.500 --> 01:09.480]  Well, he...
[01:13.400 --> 01:16.900]  In New York City, there are 700,000 children who live in poverty.
[01:17.340 --> 01:19.980]  Almost half the children in the city are living in poverty.
[01:20.220 --> 01:22.020]  So, 44% of the children...
[01:22.020 --> 01:29.400]  The Committee Against Anti-Asian Violence released a report documenting what they say is a pattern of police abuse in Asian American communities.
[01:29.400 --> 01:36.740]  If my son was shot in the back, then the officer should be arrested and...
[01:36.740 --> 01:41.400]  This kind of ineffective and, at times, incompetent behavior by NYPD...
[01:41.400 --> 01:43.780]  He shot my son in the back!
[01:44.400 --> 01:45.460]  He always...
[01:45.460 --> 01:48.520]  Someday, the Times will stumble upon this tragedy.
[01:48.940 --> 01:56.520]  Robertson, an African American plainclothes transit officer, was shot several times in the back by a white, off-duty officer, Peter Del Debbio...
[01:56.520 --> 01:59.920]  This is a call from an inmate at a correctional facility.
[02:00.000 --> 02:05.200]  It's amazing to me how we can always afford another policeman to build another prison.
[02:05.460 --> 02:10.850]  This cut that the mayor is instituting will destroy the ability to care for all the citizens of New York.
[02:11.000 --> 02:16.640]  The WBAI Evening News, Monday through Friday at 6 p.m.
[02:24.420 --> 02:28.000]  And you can catch a repeat of the WBAI Evening News every evening at 11 as well.
[02:28.300 --> 02:29.740]  We promise you, no fluff.
[02:31.760 --> 02:32.480]  And it's...
[02:33.040 --> 02:33.680]  8.01.
[02:34.740 --> 02:36.060]  One minute late for Off The Hook.
[02:42.860 --> 02:44.880]  The telephone keeps ringing.
[02:45.340 --> 02:47.380]  So I ripped it off the wall.
[02:48.260 --> 02:50.340]  I cut myself while shaving.
[02:50.880 --> 02:52.920]  Now I can't make a cough.
[02:53.760 --> 02:55.700]  It couldn't get much worse.
[02:58.440 --> 03:01.080]  Bum-diddly-bum, but I best expect the worst.
[03:01.560 --> 03:03.560]  I hope that's understood.
[03:03.900 --> 03:04.520]  Bum-diddly-bum!
[05:13.790 --> 05:14.590]  And good evening.
[05:14.710 --> 05:15.690]  Welcome to another show.
[05:15.910 --> 05:17.850]  Off The Hook is on the air.
[05:18.090 --> 05:19.250]  It's Manuel Goldstein here with you.
[05:19.550 --> 05:20.130]  Good evening, Isaac.
[05:20.330 --> 05:20.970]  How are you doing, sir?
[05:21.370 --> 05:22.210]  Oh, it's been fun.
[05:22.450 --> 05:24.110]  A lot of things going on this week.
[05:24.950 --> 05:28.070]  Preparations for H2K, preparations for Y2K.
[05:28.630 --> 05:30.790]  Well, Y2K comes before H2K.
[05:31.230 --> 05:32.890]  H2K is conditional on Y2K.
[05:33.150 --> 05:33.390]  Yes.
[05:34.190 --> 05:36.030]  We're getting through that smoothly.
[05:37.350 --> 05:38.270]  What's new in your world?
[05:38.350 --> 05:38.930]  Anything exciting?
[05:38.930 --> 05:43.110]  No, we survived the hurricane after the show last week.
[05:43.130 --> 05:44.090]  That was a nightmare.
[05:44.430 --> 05:49.850]  People don't seem to realize that we had some sort of crazy storm last week that tore the door off my car, which I still haven't had fixed.
[05:50.010 --> 05:55.070]  Well, down here on Wall Street, there's like this weird wind tunnel at the end, which is kind of cool, but very frightening.
[05:56.170 --> 05:58.270]  The power of money and all that kind of thing.
[05:58.550 --> 05:59.770]  We're facing a daily basis.
[06:00.890 --> 06:03.650]  A lot of fun things going on this week.
[06:03.730 --> 06:05.610]  There's the Microsoft case, if you follow that.
[06:05.810 --> 06:06.190]  Oh, yes.
[06:06.210 --> 06:07.210]  Microsoft is a monopoly.
[06:07.470 --> 06:08.670]  Gee whiz, tell us something we don't know.
[06:08.670 --> 06:08.950]  Wow.
[06:09.170 --> 06:12.370]  It was one of the major revelations out of the Justice Department.
[06:13.190 --> 06:26.010]  I have heard and a number of commentators were upset that the prosecutors held this press conference afterwards and were patting each other on the back, wind up winning the case.
[06:27.030 --> 06:27.990]  Why would they be upset?
[06:28.150 --> 06:28.990]  I mean, obviously, that's what they're going to do.
[06:28.990 --> 06:33.870]  Well, no, the point is that this was like the United States government versus one corporation.
[06:33.870 --> 06:37.550]  This wasn't like, you know, some kind of prosecutorial?
[06:38.590 --> 06:42.770]  If the United States government went to war against Microsoft, it would be a long, prolonged battle.
[06:43.030 --> 06:45.570]  Well, it's going to be a long, prolonged battle.
[06:45.570 --> 06:45.930]  Yeah.
[06:46.690 --> 06:48.330]  That they're forced to be reckoned with.
[06:49.110 --> 06:49.410]  Which?
[06:49.730 --> 06:50.590]  Well, Microsoft.
[06:50.730 --> 06:51.410]  Both of them are.
[06:51.430 --> 06:53.550]  Microsoft is rising a lot faster than the government.
[06:53.590 --> 06:54.030]  Oh, yes.
[06:54.030 --> 06:57.850]  But did you know that Apple stock closed higher today than Microsoft for the first time?
[06:58.070 --> 06:58.290]  Really?
[06:58.290 --> 06:58.630]  Yeah.
[06:58.750 --> 06:59.610]  We closed at 96.
[06:59.610 --> 07:00.830]  They closed at like 80-something.
[07:00.890 --> 07:01.310]  You said we.
[07:02.130 --> 07:03.350]  Apple closed at 96.
[07:03.350 --> 07:04.870]  They closed at something else.
[07:05.030 --> 07:06.450]  I'm still interested why you said we.
[07:06.890 --> 07:08.430]  Well, I'm a happy Mac user.
[07:08.670 --> 07:08.990]  So, yeah.
[07:09.030 --> 07:10.110]  We're all one big happy fan.
[07:10.110 --> 07:10.630]  Ah, okay.
[07:10.790 --> 07:12.090]  With the rainbow-colored apple.
[07:12.770 --> 07:14.070]  Which is now only a blue apple.
[07:14.210 --> 07:15.990]  Or whatever color your outside case is.
[07:16.130 --> 07:21.310]  Well, again, we would like to know our listeners' viewpoints on how the Microsoft case will affect them.
[07:21.650 --> 07:22.850]  Where you think things will go.
[07:23.070 --> 07:24.950]  Where we'll have a bunch of baby Microsofts.
[07:25.270 --> 07:26.030]  It's not going to happen.
[07:26.150 --> 07:26.810]  Through divestiture.
[07:26.950 --> 07:27.510]  What do you think is going to happen?
[07:28.470 --> 07:30.970]  We'll be fighting in appeals for like another decade.
[07:31.250 --> 07:31.890]  And then what's going to happen?
[07:32.030 --> 07:32.790]  And then what's going to happen?
[07:32.930 --> 07:33.890]  It's going to be irrelevant.
[07:34.030 --> 07:36.850]  Because people are going to abandon Windows as a platform.
[07:37.250 --> 07:39.170]  Well, that is the hope.
[07:40.290 --> 07:43.290]  We have letters from our listeners.
[07:43.430 --> 07:47.170]  In fact, one of them kind of has to do with this a little bit.
[07:48.410 --> 07:49.910]  If I can track it down.
[07:50.290 --> 07:50.690]  Ah, yes.
[07:52.030 --> 07:55.210]  5.0 is the newest Unix version available from Real.
[07:55.570 --> 07:56.650]  Talking about listening to the radio show.
[07:56.650 --> 07:59.990]  I find it odd that listeners are essentially forced to use Windows to listen to your show.
[08:02.570 --> 08:05.030]  We broadcast in Real 5 last I checked.
[08:05.890 --> 08:06.410]  Well, yeah.
[08:06.490 --> 08:10.630]  I think what he's saying is that 5 doesn't work in Linux.
[08:10.630 --> 08:11.690]  But it does.
[08:12.010 --> 08:16.470]  In fact, I use Real Player 5 on Irix on my Happy SGI.
[08:17.030 --> 08:18.150]  And it works just fine.
[08:18.370 --> 08:18.570]  All right.
[08:18.630 --> 08:19.790]  So you're correcting this listener then.
[08:20.350 --> 08:22.130]  He's saying 5.0...
[08:22.130 --> 08:25.450]  The last I checked, we were encoding and streaming using Real 5.
[08:25.450 --> 08:29.030]  On rereading this, he's saying 5.0 is the newest Unix version available from Real.
[08:29.150 --> 08:31.230]  So what's the newest version available from Real?
[08:31.610 --> 08:32.310]  G2, whatever.
[08:32.490 --> 08:32.610]  Okay.
[08:32.690 --> 08:37.350]  So I think what he's saying is that you can't use the newest version to listen to it in Unix.
[08:37.410 --> 08:37.650]  Well, yeah.
[08:37.790 --> 08:38.430]  You can't use...
[08:38.430 --> 08:41.150]  There is no G2 player on the different Unix platforms.
[08:41.310 --> 08:41.770]  Why is that?
[08:42.030 --> 08:42.690]  I don't know.
[08:42.690 --> 08:43.370]  You should ask Real.
[08:43.890 --> 08:44.070]  Okay.
[08:44.130 --> 08:47.650]  But it doesn't make a difference because our show is broadcast in Real 5, last I heard.
[08:48.910 --> 08:53.610]  Also, the other interesting thing is that I believe a substantial part of Real is owned by Microsoft.
[08:54.010 --> 08:54.330]  Yeah.
[08:54.510 --> 08:57.070]  Well, a substantial part of a lot of things are owned by Microsoft.
[08:57.070 --> 09:00.270]  I only found out that Pacifica was owned by Microsoft when I got in here before.
[09:00.470 --> 09:00.710]  Really?
[09:01.690 --> 09:03.110]  Well, I'm not supposed to talk about that.
[09:03.230 --> 09:03.630]  I'm sorry.
[09:04.510 --> 09:05.790]  Pacifica is not owned by Microsoft.
[09:05.930 --> 09:06.130]  All right.
[09:06.290 --> 09:07.490]  If you keep banging at the glass, it will break.
[09:07.670 --> 09:07.830]  Yeah.
[09:08.250 --> 09:08.570]  All right.
[09:10.430 --> 09:12.270]  We do have a good sense of humor here at the radio station.
[09:12.270 --> 09:12.690]  Oh, yes.
[09:12.810 --> 09:13.150]  Yes, we do.
[09:13.410 --> 09:13.790]  All right.
[09:14.010 --> 09:17.410]  This person also goes on to complain about something else that I guess we should address.
[09:17.870 --> 09:19.190]  I saw this on the meeting page.
[09:19.330 --> 09:27.370]  Now, this is going to become something that people will be trying to interpret and figure out the original meaning of more so than the Second Amendment.
[09:27.370 --> 09:28.270]  I'll tell you that right now.
[09:28.390 --> 09:31.570]  But the advantage to this is that I happened to write this piece so I can tell you what it meant.
[09:32.230 --> 09:38.250]  This person is quoting, all meetings, referring to 2600 meetings, all meetings take place on the first Friday of every month from approximately 5 p.m.
[09:38.250 --> 09:38.790]  to 8 p.m.
[09:38.850 --> 09:40.470]  local time unless otherwise noted.
[09:41.070 --> 09:48.330]  Now, this person interprets that to mean that 2600 no longer has a valid reason for excluding the Denver meetings from the list.
[09:48.610 --> 09:54.190]  The old excuse was that it would take up too much space to print meeting times that differed from the standard first Friday 5 p.m.
[09:54.290 --> 09:54.450]  time.
[09:54.450 --> 09:58.050]  At any rate, the 303 meetings are on the first Saturday of every month at 2 p.m.
[09:58.430 --> 10:00.590]  They meet at 16th in Tremont in downtown Denver.
[10:00.770 --> 10:02.890]  Okay, now, let me interpret the sentence here.
[10:04.230 --> 10:07.150]  All meetings take place on the first Friday of every month from approximately 5 p.m.
[10:07.190 --> 10:07.690]  to 8 p.m.
[10:07.730 --> 10:09.170]  local time unless otherwise noted.
[10:09.270 --> 10:14.790]  The unless otherwise noted is relating to the phrase from approximately 5 p.m.
[10:14.830 --> 10:15.330]  to 8 p.m.
[10:15.330 --> 10:17.330]  Not the phrase the first Friday of every month.
[10:17.530 --> 10:18.450]  Do you understand that?
[10:18.570 --> 10:21.050]  I can see why he was confused.
[10:21.070 --> 10:24.050]  And I see your resolution of that confusion.
[10:24.210 --> 10:25.470]  The times vary.
[10:25.610 --> 10:27.770]  The times vary from, say, 3 p.m.
[10:27.950 --> 10:30.010]  In some cities, I think they're as late as 7 p.m.
[10:30.010 --> 10:33.410]  Well, it doesn't make a difference because, I mean, even here in New York, it's like 5-ish.
[10:33.410 --> 10:42.530]  Right, but if you look, if you look at the back page of the magazine, if you look at the website, you'll see that the only thing we put on the end is a time, sometimes.
[10:43.030 --> 10:44.670]  But all meetings take place Friday.
[10:44.790 --> 10:49.710]  And the reason for that is to make it simple so people don't have to say, well, what day is it?
[10:49.750 --> 10:50.530]  What city am I in?
[10:50.610 --> 10:51.150]  When's the meeting?
[10:51.810 --> 10:57.370]  And Friday evening, Friday late afternoon has worked phenomenally well for 10 years.
[10:57.490 --> 10:59.450]  And you can attest to that by looking at the number of meetings.
[10:59.450 --> 11:01.070]  We have four columns worth of meetings.
[11:01.170 --> 11:04.670]  The biggest problem right now is figuring out how to print all the meetings on one page.
[11:05.170 --> 11:06.690]  Why don't we expand it to two pages?
[11:06.990 --> 11:10.950]  Well, because then, when you expand to two pages, you have to take away a page of articles.
[11:11.410 --> 11:12.650]  That's not a good thing either.
[11:13.190 --> 11:15.010]  Okay, why don't we make the font smaller?
[11:15.390 --> 11:16.290]  We've already done that.
[11:16.350 --> 11:17.350]  It doesn't get any smaller than this.
[11:17.350 --> 11:18.450]  And then, like, give people microscopes.
[11:18.470 --> 11:21.190]  This is sub-classified ad size.
[11:21.450 --> 11:21.650]  Oh, okay.
[11:21.690 --> 11:23.590]  People cannot read this anymore.
[11:24.090 --> 11:25.230]  The web page is not a problem.
[11:25.230 --> 11:30.130]  We can add to the web page at an item, but, you know, you can only put so much on a printed page.
[11:30.530 --> 11:38.930]  So, the problem is, once you have, you know, one city having a meeting on Saturday because they're different, then another city is going to say, well, I want our meeting on the third Tuesday.
[11:39.410 --> 11:42.570]  And then you have factions that develop within cities, and it just gets crazy.
[11:42.650 --> 11:45.770]  And before you know it, you have to have a chart to figure out where's what.
[11:46.330 --> 11:47.870]  So, that's what we've been trying to avoid.
[11:48.010 --> 11:50.830]  And, you know, there's nothing preventing people from having meetings whenever they want.
[11:50.830 --> 11:55.770]  But, as far as 2,600 affiliated meetings, we have them all at the same time.
[11:55.930 --> 12:00.030]  And I think that's kind of cool, too, because it really stretches the federal authorities' abilities.
[12:00.590 --> 12:02.630]  You know, to be able to spy on all of us at the same time.
[12:02.690 --> 12:10.170]  If you also have a Learjet or something, you could, like, hop from time zone to time zone and catch meetings all around the world because they're all in the same day.
[12:10.250 --> 12:12.130]  I don't know if anyone's ever actually done that.
[12:12.230 --> 12:14.870]  Until you hit the international date line, which would be bad.
[12:15.010 --> 12:17.610]  I mean, I thought about going to the Philadelphia meeting.
[12:18.190 --> 12:19.490]  Well, you went to the Philadelphia meeting.
[12:19.490 --> 12:20.950]  And going to the New York meeting in one day.
[12:21.130 --> 12:21.390]  Ooh.
[12:22.270 --> 12:23.210]  That wouldn't be interesting.
[12:23.350 --> 12:24.370]  Well, that would be interesting.
[12:24.570 --> 12:26.390]  That wouldn't be possible, but I think.
[12:26.410 --> 12:30.230]  Well, the only way you could do it would be if you left one meeting as soon as it began.
[12:30.430 --> 12:30.610]  Right.
[12:30.690 --> 12:32.450]  And then arrive at the other as they're leaving.
[12:32.590 --> 12:34.950]  And you take the Amtrak Super Metro line or whatever and...
[12:34.950 --> 12:35.830]  Oh, the Acela.
[12:36.050 --> 12:36.230]  Yeah.
[12:36.410 --> 12:37.870]  And just, you know, make it there in time.
[12:38.010 --> 12:40.910]  Which is convenient because their meeting takes place in the train station, so...
[12:40.910 --> 12:41.470]  That's true.
[12:41.590 --> 12:42.190]  I guess that...
[12:42.190 --> 12:43.570]  Maybe you should start there and then leave.
[12:44.150 --> 12:44.350]  Yeah.
[12:44.510 --> 12:46.510]  But in any event, the meetings are a lot of fun.
[12:46.630 --> 12:47.750]  We had one last Friday.
[12:47.870 --> 12:48.690]  First Friday of every month.
[12:48.850 --> 12:48.970]  Yep.
[12:49.490 --> 12:50.130]  That's where they take place.
[12:50.870 --> 12:51.510]  And, um...
[12:51.510 --> 12:52.430]  That's when they take place.
[12:52.710 --> 12:53.290]  Yeah, I'm sorry.
[12:53.330 --> 12:53.970]  That's when they take place.
[12:54.110 --> 12:57.130]  They take place in various other cities around the world as well.
[12:58.450 --> 13:07.010]  And one thing that we were toying with was just basically saying that first Friday of every month is 2600 meeting day, and if you're in a mall, then you can have a meeting in a food court.
[13:07.290 --> 13:08.630]  You know, that makes it nice and simple.
[13:08.710 --> 13:10.930]  You don't have to list every mall in the back of the magazine.
[13:11.730 --> 13:14.230]  But, uh, the major ones are the ones that get listed.
[13:14.750 --> 13:15.290]  I don't know.
[13:15.570 --> 13:17.870]  Anyway, let's, uh, move along here.
[13:18.990 --> 13:20.750]  A lot of mail on the MTV thing.
[13:20.870 --> 13:22.350]  Have you been seeing some of this mail coming in?
[13:22.830 --> 13:23.690]  I've seen some mail.
[13:23.690 --> 13:24.370]  I've never...
[13:24.370 --> 13:26.890]  I've gotten a nice heap of mail.
[13:26.970 --> 13:30.310]  I've never gotten so much fan mail for writing that piece on the 2600 site.
[13:30.310 --> 13:30.670]  Never.
[13:30.810 --> 13:31.230]  For anything.
[13:31.350 --> 13:32.130]  For anything I've written.
[13:32.290 --> 13:34.850]  For saving old ladies from burning buildings.
[13:34.890 --> 13:37.870]  I have not gotten as much fan mail as for writing that piece.
[13:38.070 --> 13:41.870]  You know, condemning MTV for the crap that they put on the air.
[13:42.050 --> 13:42.910]  On the cable, actually.
[13:43.030 --> 13:43.610]  It's not really the air.
[13:44.170 --> 13:45.490]  But it's, uh...
[13:45.490 --> 13:45.990]  It's awesome.
[13:46.010 --> 13:47.510]  That is crap that you pay for.
[13:47.790 --> 13:48.190]  Yeah.
[13:48.510 --> 13:56.090]  You know, I don't understand it either because it used to be years ago when cable TV was first invented, it was the alternative to, uh, you know, the, the commercial airwaves.
[13:56.230 --> 13:57.050]  You paid for it.
[13:57.110 --> 13:58.190]  You paid not to see commercials.
[13:58.310 --> 13:59.410]  Now you pay to see commercials.
[13:59.650 --> 14:00.630]  You pay to see crap.
[14:00.730 --> 14:01.610]  You pay to see censorship.
[14:02.330 --> 14:04.150]  You know, it's, it's, it's, it's annoying.
[14:05.110 --> 14:07.190]  Speaking of censorship, can we say crap on the air?
[14:07.190 --> 14:09.410]  Yeah, you can say that, but there's so much you can't say.
[14:09.550 --> 14:09.690]  Oh.
[14:09.690 --> 14:10.530]  And here's what I don't get.
[14:10.690 --> 14:13.850]  You, you have these, these, these alternative networks, supposedly.
[14:13.990 --> 14:14.770]  They're not alternative at all.
[14:14.870 --> 14:16.190]  USA network, TNT network.
[14:16.310 --> 14:17.210]  What's alternative about them?
[14:17.350 --> 14:17.510]  Nothing.
[14:18.730 --> 14:23.170]  And they, they, they run films, but they, they cut them for commercials.
[14:23.570 --> 14:27.270]  They act like they're, you know, a TV station back in the 1950s.
[14:27.530 --> 14:29.410]  You know, they, they cut words like crap.
[14:29.550 --> 14:30.710]  They replace them with other things.
[14:31.690 --> 14:39.390]  And it's, it's, and if you look at the, at the ratings for the, uh, for the, for the, films that they run, they still get the same ratings as if they didn't do that.
[14:39.930 --> 14:43.070]  You know, on, on DSS, you have like a guide to, uh, various films.
[14:43.190 --> 14:56.470]  If you, if you click on a film when it's running on one of these commercial networks that cuts everything, they still would rate it R and they'd say that there's nudity in it and, and graphic language, but there isn't because they cut it all, but it still gets the rating and the V chip will still turn on and,
[14:56.470 --> 14:58.610]  and prevent it from being, uh, from being shown.
[14:58.710 --> 15:00.170]  The V chip will be introduced in January.
[15:00.590 --> 15:01.090]  Uh-oh.
[15:01.210 --> 15:02.050]  And that's going to be fun.
[15:02.850 --> 15:04.470]  That's something to, uh, to play around with.
[15:05.030 --> 15:06.090]  Anyway, let me read you this letter.
[15:06.410 --> 15:09.670]  Um, I do not know much on hacking an internet site, but I do know about pirate radio.
[15:10.390 --> 15:16.890]  MTV's Total Request Live has got a radio station for Times Square that transmits on 88.1 megahertz.
[15:17.270 --> 15:18.710]  Ooh, wait a second here.
[15:18.850 --> 15:28.810]  Why is it, why is it that still this radio has so much trouble staying on the air downtown and, and these guys can just set up a commercial station in the middle of Times Square without any fuss whatsoever?
[15:28.950 --> 15:30.510]  Well, did anyone check to see if it was licensed?
[15:30.530 --> 15:31.690]  Well, I think we're going to be doing that.
[15:31.790 --> 15:32.010]  Okay.
[15:32.010 --> 15:36.670]  Uh, if I lived in the area, I would love to go down there with a mobile setup and transmit during a show.
[15:36.930 --> 15:40.730]  Uh, if you know anyone that is willing to do it, please pass it on.
[15:41.970 --> 15:42.690]  Moving right along.
[15:42.950 --> 15:43.150]  Yeah.
[15:43.290 --> 15:47.430]  I, I don't know the specific, uh, I don't know the specific of the radio station, but if interested, I can research it.
[15:47.510 --> 15:48.610]  Well, definitely, uh, people...
[15:48.610 --> 15:49.450]  That's OTH.
[15:49.450 --> 15:49.730]  Research.
[15:50.110 --> 15:51.350]  Yeah, OTH.2600.com.
[15:51.510 --> 15:51.910]  Research that.
[15:51.990 --> 15:55.670]  Let us know what's going on up there because, uh, that's, uh, that's something.
[15:56.290 --> 15:57.950]  Uh, all I can say is another letter.
[15:58.030 --> 15:59.250]  All I can say is, holy cow.
[15:59.850 --> 16:01.210]  And he really did say holy cow.
[16:01.510 --> 16:01.710]  No.
[16:02.150 --> 16:13.070]  Um, having watched the MTV's True Life myself, I was mystified that throughout the entire piece I kept saying, damn, this is a weak copy of the movie Hackers.
[16:13.530 --> 16:19.850]  As you say, throughout the entire piece, there was no real evidence demonstrating the supposed level of skill these three kids have had.
[16:21.790 --> 16:23.530]  Oh, wow, I guess someone's password.
[16:23.750 --> 16:24.730]  Am I a hacker now?
[16:25.390 --> 16:29.670]  When it comes right down to it, anyone with a certain aptitude with computers could be considered a hacker.
[16:29.910 --> 16:38.410]  From the person who can, uh, write buffer overflows and denial of service attacks right down to, uh, Joe Blow, who's figured out a way to change the appearance of a Windows desktop.
[16:38.630 --> 16:41.590]  Wait a second, buffer overflows and denial of service is the top?
[16:42.670 --> 16:43.070]  Yeah.
[16:43.730 --> 16:44.570]  Well, that's kinda sad.
[16:44.590 --> 16:48.010]  Well, I think, I think he's, he's, he's going from one level of lameness to another.
[16:48.150 --> 16:48.470]  Oh, okay.
[16:48.470 --> 16:49.290]  I hope so, anyway.
[16:50.130 --> 16:55.750]  Uh, in my opinion, just being able to change something from the way it was supposed to be qualifies a person as a hacker, used loosely, of course.
[16:56.050 --> 16:57.730]  I guess I fall somewhere in between.
[16:58.790 --> 17:05.010]  I suppose with all the recent media paranoia dealing with computer crime, MTV jumped right onto the bandwagon with this show.
[17:05.130 --> 17:07.730]  It's just too bad that there wasn't any legitimate story to be told.
[17:08.370 --> 17:12.210]  Uh, the review of this worthless documentary was right on the money.
[17:14.090 --> 17:16.730]  And there have been so many, uh, so many other pieces like that.
[17:16.850 --> 17:20.530]  So, uh, thank everybody for, for reading, for sending it in, and for, uh, thinking.
[17:21.110 --> 17:22.550]  It's a, it's a good thing to do.
[17:22.550 --> 17:22.610]  Awesome.
[17:22.830 --> 17:26.250]  We have on the phone with us, uh, from Delaware, uh, Zale.
[17:26.350 --> 17:27.030]  Zale, are you with us?
[17:27.130 --> 17:27.290]  Yes.
[17:27.890 --> 17:31.970]  And, uh, you've got a new toy to play with, uh, down there in your nice, safe suburban home.
[17:32.210 --> 17:32.550]  Yeah.
[17:32.870 --> 17:35.910]  Uh, it's a, a piece of jewelry, I believe, known as an ankle bracelet.
[17:36.530 --> 17:38.010]  Yeah, uh, home confinement.
[17:38.150 --> 17:38.790]  Home confinement.
[17:38.870 --> 17:41.010]  Now, this is the latest fad among young people these days.
[17:41.490 --> 17:47.530]  Um, and, uh, well, perhaps you might want to tell us something about, about how it works, and, and, and what you're expected to do or not do.
[17:47.970 --> 18:03.750]  Uh, well, uh, I'm pretty much confined to my home unless I'm leaving with my parents or going to work, and, uh, basically, uh, I think it keeps a, uh, standard RF connection to the, um, base, which is connected to my phone, my phone line.
[18:03.990 --> 18:20.250]  And, um, when I leave my house, it's kind of like, uh, talking on a portable phone, you know, you get out of range, and then it, uh, automatically calls some, uh, 800 number, which I'm, uh, which I'm, uh, I think I've decoded, and, um, it, uh, sends a series of tunes,
[18:20.530 --> 18:29.350]  uh, to their computer or whatever to let you, let them know that you're home or you're not home, or it randomly calls out of my house 27 times a day.
[18:29.490 --> 18:30.630]  27 times a day?
[18:30.770 --> 18:30.970]  Yeah.
[18:31.230 --> 18:32.150]  It calls an 800 number?
[18:32.370 --> 18:32.590]  Yep.
[18:33.070 --> 18:36.470]  So, now there's, what happens if you're on the phone when it, when it, when it calls?
[18:36.690 --> 18:44.870]  Uh, basically, it'll just keep making a fuss, like, it'll last my ear with, uh, sounds until I hang up, and so it can go ahead and do its thing.
[18:45.150 --> 18:47.350]  Well, we'll actually try to dial the number while you're on the phone?
[18:47.550 --> 18:48.050]  Uh, yeah.
[18:48.810 --> 18:50.370]  So, okay, let me see if I understand this.
[18:50.470 --> 18:52.810]  If, if you're talking to us now on the same phone line, right?
[18:52.910 --> 18:53.070]  Right.
[18:53.370 --> 18:57.330]  If it tries to dial out while you're talking to us right now...
[18:57.330 --> 18:57.470]  Right.
[18:57.690 --> 18:59.250]  ...will we hear it dialing?
[18:59.510 --> 18:59.850]  Yes.
[19:00.430 --> 19:04.670]  Okay, so, so if it tries to dial out, we'll get the phone number that it's dialing, right?
[19:04.810 --> 19:04.970]  Right.
[19:05.170 --> 19:05.670]  Oh, cool.
[19:06.330 --> 19:08.890]  All right, well, let's, uh, let's hope that doesn't happen.
[19:09.010 --> 19:09.790]  That would confuse everybody.
[19:10.030 --> 19:10.330]  Right, right.
[19:10.330 --> 19:11.810]  27 times a day?
[19:12.010 --> 19:12.210]  Yeah.
[19:13.030 --> 19:14.370]  Wow, who pays for all those calls?
[19:15.310 --> 19:15.630]  Uh...
[19:15.630 --> 19:16.630]  It's an 800 number, they do.
[19:16.850 --> 19:17.390]  Yeah, they do.
[19:17.550 --> 19:18.590]  Well, they don't bill it back?
[19:18.810 --> 19:19.350]  Oh, no.
[19:19.890 --> 19:20.150]  Oh, okay.
[19:20.150 --> 19:22.130]  We just have to, we just have to have the phone line.
[19:22.810 --> 19:23.830]  That's a good deal, I guess.
[19:24.010 --> 19:25.570]  Uh, well, gee whiz.
[19:25.710 --> 19:29.290]  Uh, so, okay, so if you go out of range of, how, how, how big is the range?
[19:29.630 --> 19:33.030]  Uh, well, I really can't go past, I don't know, past my driveway.
[19:33.350 --> 19:33.610]  Uh-huh.
[19:34.550 --> 19:41.450]  And, once I do that, you know, I'd have to check in with my, uh, intervention specialist before I do anything.
[19:41.710 --> 19:42.770]  Intervention specialist, eh?
[19:42.950 --> 19:43.170]  Yeah.
[19:44.130 --> 19:44.450]  Wow.
[19:44.630 --> 19:46.830]  Uh, and that's, that's if you just wander past your driveway.
[19:47.070 --> 19:50.150]  Um, well, now, are you allowed to leave your house at all?
[19:50.650 --> 19:52.710]  Uh, not unless I'm working or with my parents.
[19:53.550 --> 19:55.290]  I mean, how does that work if you're with your parents?
[19:55.530 --> 20:00.690]  I have to be with them when we leave and at our final destination, and...
[20:00.690 --> 20:03.630]  Okay, but, but how do you tell the phone thing that you're with your parents?
[20:03.750 --> 20:04.690]  Oh, well, see, I don't.
[20:04.770 --> 20:08.690]  I page him, and he has voicemail on his page, and I just tell him, you know, what's going on.
[20:08.830 --> 20:09.070]  Uh-huh.
[20:09.210 --> 20:10.510]  And then, uh, I just leave.
[20:10.870 --> 20:13.150]  And how do they verify that you're actually with your parents?
[20:13.610 --> 20:14.370]  Uh, they can't.
[20:14.750 --> 20:15.510]  They can't, okay.
[20:15.530 --> 20:17.190]  I'm not trying to give you any ideas or anything like that.
[20:17.270 --> 20:20.370]  I'm just asking some, some probing questions here, because I've never actually...
[20:20.370 --> 20:22.930]  Yeah, this is an ankle bracelet that's actually around your ankle?
[20:23.250 --> 20:23.410]  Yeah.
[20:23.710 --> 20:25.750]  Alright, and I assume you can't just take it off.
[20:26.090 --> 20:29.150]  No, I, uh, would imagine, I haven't really, uh, checked it.
[20:29.250 --> 20:35.010]  It's a plastic strap, it's hard plastic, but I would imagine they have some kind of wires in there, so if it got cut, it would notify them.
[20:35.050 --> 20:35.790]  And it's waterproof?
[20:36.210 --> 20:36.790]  Oh, of course.
[20:37.090 --> 20:37.330]  Uh-huh.
[20:38.090 --> 20:39.370]  Uh, what powers it?
[20:39.790 --> 20:41.470]  Uh, a 9-volt battery.
[20:41.790 --> 20:43.170]  What happens when that battery runs out?
[20:43.710 --> 20:46.790]  Um, I guess they have to come and replace it, uh, you know?
[20:47.010 --> 20:47.350]  Uh-huh.
[20:48.570 --> 20:52.170]  I hope they won't try to put me in jail for, uh, their 9-volt battery dying.
[20:52.310 --> 20:55.230]  Well, Zach, what did you, what did you do to get in this kind of situation?
[20:56.630 --> 20:58.590]  Oh, it started a long time ago.
[20:59.650 --> 21:00.510]  Well, how old are you?
[21:00.810 --> 21:01.630]  Uh, how old am I now?
[21:01.690 --> 21:01.890]  Yeah.
[21:02.050 --> 21:02.350]  16.
[21:03.130 --> 21:04.490]  And you got an ankle bracelet.
[21:04.710 --> 21:04.910]  Yeah.
[21:05.870 --> 21:07.690]  Is this, do you think this is an unusual thing?
[21:09.230 --> 21:19.690]  Uh, considering the stuff I was involved in, uh, yeah, you normally hear about, like, you know, drug dealers or people like that being put on house rest, but hackers?
[21:20.750 --> 21:21.410]  I don't know.
[21:21.890 --> 21:24.610]  It's, uh, I've, I've really never heard of that before.
[21:25.410 --> 21:25.670]  Uh-huh.
[21:26.550 --> 21:27.730]  That's, uh, that's something.
[21:29.310 --> 21:29.670]  Wow.
[21:29.790 --> 21:32.370]  So, uh, okay, tell us, tell us how you got into the sorry state.
[21:33.150 --> 21:39.110]  Okay, well, um, there's an internet provider in Delaware called INET Communications.
[21:39.930 --> 21:54.850]  And, um, me and, uh, two other, uh, I guess, code defendants now, um, had penetrated their computer or whatever, and, you know, it never came back to me, but they basically scared them into saying that, you know, it was all me.
[21:55.090 --> 21:59.790]  They, they had nothing to do with it, and basically the state just came after me.
[22:00.210 --> 22:00.450]  Uh-huh.
[22:00.950 --> 22:06.330]  Um, it's not my first, uh, offense in Delaware, so they refer to me as the big fish.
[22:07.270 --> 22:08.210]  You're the big fish, huh?
[22:08.270 --> 22:08.430]  Yeah.
[22:09.070 --> 22:09.390]  Wow.
[22:09.630 --> 22:11.950]  And, uh, well, now you, of course, you hacked NASA.
[22:12.230 --> 22:12.470]  Right.
[22:12.830 --> 22:13.730]  Uh, when you were how old?
[22:14.410 --> 22:14.730]  Fourteen.
[22:15.030 --> 22:15.910]  No, no, when I was thirteen.
[22:16.050 --> 22:16.630]  Thirteen, okay.
[22:17.870 --> 22:22.030]  That's, that's, that's borderline, but I guess you're not too old to hack NASA back, back when you were thirteen.
[22:22.290 --> 22:22.710]  Right, right.
[22:22.890 --> 22:24.550]  Uh, a lot of people hack NASA, I understand.
[22:24.750 --> 22:25.230]  Oh, of course.
[22:25.450 --> 22:25.610]  Yeah.
[22:26.150 --> 22:27.230]  It's a rite of passage.
[22:27.470 --> 22:30.050]  It's kind of like a bar mitzvah or something, almost exactly like that.
[22:30.050 --> 22:30.450]  Exactly.
[22:31.070 --> 22:33.870]  Um, well, okay, so, uh, you, you hacked NASA.
[22:34.010 --> 22:35.890]  When you hacked NASA, what, what exactly did you do to them?
[22:35.990 --> 22:38.250]  Did you bring them down to their knees or, or, or what?
[22:38.530 --> 22:43.030]  Um, no, I just changed their webpage and, uh, I backed up their old HTML file.
[22:43.470 --> 22:43.790]  Uh-huh.
[22:43.950 --> 22:46.690]  And, um, they got me for it.
[22:47.090 --> 22:48.830]  They, they, they, they got you for that, huh?
[22:49.070 --> 22:55.650]  Yeah, well, it was cause, like, I was on IRC bragging about it, and, uh, an IRC operator sent a log of it to NASA.
[22:56.550 --> 22:56.910]  Yeah.
[22:56.910 --> 22:57.290]  Oh, yeah.
[22:57.710 --> 22:59.050]  That's deductive reasoning for you.
[22:59.490 --> 22:59.670]  Yeah.
[22:59.830 --> 23:08.890]  Um, now you also, uh, were the person, I guess we should tell the folks this, you were the person who discovered the, um, the hospital thing a few weeks ago, uh, that we, we aired on this, uh, on this station.
[23:09.390 --> 23:16.870]  Uh, now, I think that was particularly impressive because, uh, you certainly demonstrated restraint as far as, uh, what to do with that.
[23:17.090 --> 23:19.950]  Uh, I mean, what, what, what could you have done with that information?
[23:21.690 --> 23:22.630]  Uh, I don't know.
[23:22.710 --> 23:29.930]  I mean, you could have heard people, you know, brought out people's medical records and just been, you know, put their, put their name in light.
[23:30.230 --> 23:31.010]  I mean, uh-huh.
[23:31.130 --> 23:37.130]  If they had somebody, if they're talking about somebody with HIV or, I mean, something like that, you know, you could really harm, harm somebody's, uh.
[23:37.130 --> 23:37.670]  Definitely.
[23:38.870 --> 23:39.470]  I don't know.
[23:39.610 --> 23:41.290]  It's just, stuff like that should be restricted.
[23:41.570 --> 23:41.790]  I know.
[23:41.890 --> 23:44.350]  And you could also, I believe, add to, uh, their medical charge.
[23:44.530 --> 23:44.670]  Oh, yeah.
[23:44.950 --> 23:45.190]  Definitely.
[23:45.430 --> 23:46.350]  That wouldn't be too cool.
[23:46.470 --> 23:47.470]  Well, the patient is cured.
[23:48.850 --> 23:53.370]  No, that could definitely result in some confusion and sore tempers and things like that.
[23:53.590 --> 23:53.790]  Yeah.
[23:54.030 --> 23:55.950]  Uh, but, uh, this is, this is a problem.
[23:56.030 --> 23:58.910]  The hospital thing we revealed a few weeks ago that, uh, has gone away.
[23:59.250 --> 24:00.130]  The problem's fixed.
[24:00.810 --> 24:03.030]  Uh, their toll-free number is down.
[24:03.290 --> 24:04.370]  Their toll-free number is down.
[24:04.490 --> 24:04.650]  Yeah.
[24:04.650 --> 24:04.690]  Yeah.
[24:04.930 --> 24:07.330]  And there are no other such systems anywhere in the country, right?
[24:07.330 --> 24:08.030]  Uh, no, there are.
[24:08.190 --> 24:08.750]  Oh, there are.
[24:09.910 --> 24:11.150]  Gee, I'm surprised by this.
[24:11.230 --> 24:12.450]  You mean, uh...
[24:12.450 --> 24:13.770]  Pick up your phones, kiddies.
[24:13.930 --> 24:15.670]  Yeah, we, we, we haven't learned anything, have we?
[24:16.010 --> 24:17.930]  Uh, well, I don't know.
[24:17.930 --> 24:18.470]  You know, it just...
[24:18.970 --> 24:26.070]  It's gonna take a lot of, uh, people like me to get people to stop, uh, having stuff without passwords.
[24:26.210 --> 24:27.030]  I mean, that was ridiculous.
[24:27.910 --> 24:28.130]  Uh-huh.
[24:28.490 --> 24:30.150]  How, how did you manage to, to track this down?
[24:30.790 --> 24:32.090]  What, the, uh, toll-free number?
[24:32.230 --> 24:33.750]  Yeah, the, uh, the hospital thing.
[24:34.250 --> 24:34.970]  Basic scanning.
[24:35.430 --> 24:36.130]  Basic scanning?
[24:36.270 --> 24:37.430]  Just hitting a touchtone?
[24:37.650 --> 24:37.950]  Yep.
[24:38.110 --> 24:40.570]  I'm restricted from computers, so I just pick up the phone and dial.
[24:41.510 --> 24:46.990]  So, so they, they tell you not to use computers, so the first thing you do is get on the phone and find, uh, an insecure system.
[24:47.530 --> 24:47.630]  Right.
[24:47.630 --> 24:48.930]  With patient medical records.
[24:49.070 --> 24:50.210]  Right, I'm allowed to use phones, though.
[24:50.290 --> 24:52.170]  You've got some kind of a magical ability here.
[24:52.990 --> 24:56.850]  Uh, no, it's just, uh, a lot of time on my hands that they've given me.
[24:57.470 --> 24:57.790]  Uh-huh.
[24:59.150 --> 25:00.790]  Tell us more about the, about the bracelet.
[25:01.150 --> 25:03.350]  Uh, what, what, what companies behind it, things like that?
[25:03.550 --> 25:06.490]  Uh, I think it's Bi Incorporated, B-I Incorporated.
[25:06.830 --> 25:07.090]  Uh-huh.
[25:07.090 --> 25:14.630]  And, uh, they actually have a website at, uh, www.nsisw.com, NSI Software.
[25:15.510 --> 25:18.090]  And, uh, I have their phone number.
[25:18.150 --> 25:18.770]  Do you want their phone number?
[25:18.850 --> 25:19.030]  Sure.
[25:19.990 --> 25:20.430]  303.
[25:20.610 --> 25:21.870]  They could use the business, I think.
[25:22.350 --> 25:23.930]  Uh, 303, Colorado.
[25:25.770 --> 25:26.650]  530-2911.
[25:27.750 --> 25:34.470]  And, um, I think they have ankle bracelets in many countries, they said, or something like that.
[25:34.470 --> 25:34.550]  Yeah.
[25:35.170 --> 25:35.750]  Ha, ha, ha.
[25:36.290 --> 25:38.290]  I thought you were going to say many colors and styles.
[25:38.590 --> 25:39.310]  I left them all.
[25:39.610 --> 25:39.770]  Yeah.
[25:39.950 --> 25:40.610]  Yeah, that would be cool.
[25:41.170 --> 25:45.950]  But, uh, yeah, they, uh, have them in Africa and everywhere, so.
[25:46.530 --> 25:50.830]  And they offer a 100% guarantee to the law enforcement agencies that buy them to...
[25:50.830 --> 25:52.250]  Well, wait, what does that mean 100% guarantee?
[25:52.310 --> 25:53.530]  What do you get if the person escapes?
[25:53.990 --> 25:56.830]  Well, see, they notify the, the state.
[25:56.830 --> 25:59.990]  See, they monitor you from Windows computers.
[26:00.250 --> 26:00.670]  Uh-huh.
[26:00.870 --> 26:06.050]  And, uh, they notify the person they're supposed to notify if you're not home, you know.
[26:06.190 --> 26:09.330]  So the Department of Corrections doesn't actually receive the information directly?
[26:09.330 --> 26:10.930]  You're calling this company?
[26:11.150 --> 26:15.530]  No, no, that company relays the information to them if you left your house.
[26:15.530 --> 26:16.390]  Oh, okay.
[26:16.390 --> 26:17.490]  So, yeah, you are calling the company.
[26:17.490 --> 26:18.810]  So you, you're calling the company.
[26:19.030 --> 26:20.570]  It's, it's not, uh, the state of Delaware.
[26:20.690 --> 26:22.650]  Well, the whole prison system is becoming privatized now.
[26:22.790 --> 26:23.030]  Exactly.
[26:23.150 --> 26:27.250]  It's a, it's a toll-free number in, I guess, they all, everywhere in the U.S.
[26:27.350 --> 26:27.930]  Is there one question?
[26:27.990 --> 26:28.990]  How do you know they run Windows?
[26:31.470 --> 26:32.630]  Uh, I don't remember.
[26:33.010 --> 26:34.170]  Okay, we'll get to that later then.
[26:34.670 --> 26:39.770]  Uh, we, we have, uh, Hyper, uh, Zeno and, and Hyper here, right?
[26:39.990 --> 26:40.690]  I got the names right.
[26:40.790 --> 26:40.990]  Okay.
[26:41.190 --> 26:44.730]  They're, uh, they're here, and they're candidates for ankle bracelets, I think.
[26:44.730 --> 26:45.910]  Hmm, definitely.
[26:46.210 --> 26:46.390]  Yeah.
[26:46.430 --> 26:46.990]  Something like that.
[26:47.270 --> 26:47.430]  Yeah.
[26:47.750 --> 26:48.330]  You have something too?
[26:48.410 --> 26:50.190]  Um, I was wondering, can you actually buy one?
[26:50.750 --> 26:52.430]  Uh, oh, that's a good question.
[26:52.950 --> 26:53.710]  I imagine you can.
[26:53.870 --> 26:58.830]  I was told the, uh, the ankle bracelet is, uh, worth $565.
[26:59.750 --> 27:08.210]  And the base unit that, uh, you know, you have the power supply and the telephone jack that you plug it into is worth, uh, $1,200.
[27:08.690 --> 27:09.050]  Wow.
[27:09.050 --> 27:19.210]  For the concerned parent worried about Junior, you can, uh, now confine him to a certain specific area, much like you can find a pet and have electrical shocks if he gets beyond a certain fence.
[27:19.350 --> 27:20.210]  I got one of those, yeah.
[27:20.470 --> 27:21.250]  You have one of those?
[27:21.270 --> 27:21.870]  The electric thing.
[27:22.010 --> 27:22.270]  You do?
[27:22.450 --> 27:23.390]  For, for a pet, I assume?
[27:23.850 --> 27:24.530]  Something like that.
[27:24.590 --> 27:24.970]  Oh, okay.
[27:25.470 --> 27:28.070]  Well, can, the base unit, can you use it to reprogram it?
[27:28.530 --> 27:33.350]  Uh, you're not allowed to tamper with it, or you will be sent on your merry way to jail.
[27:33.350 --> 27:36.010]  But if you were to buy one, I imagine you could tamper with it all you wanted.
[27:36.290 --> 27:37.070]  You sure could.
[27:37.290 --> 27:37.830]  So, uh...
[27:37.830 --> 27:42.830]  But I imagine, see, what I think they do is, I don't think they actually purchased them, I think they leased them from the company.
[27:43.390 --> 27:45.370]  I'd like to do something with this at H2K, now.
[27:45.470 --> 27:53.270]  Maybe we could have a special room set up where, where people can have ankle bracelets on and, and we can see what happens when certain experiments are done.
[27:53.890 --> 27:56.470]  And, uh, I don't know, I think that would be kind of, kind of interesting.
[27:57.190 --> 27:57.350]  Yeah.
[27:57.470 --> 28:00.570]  Now, the requirements that you have, you have to have a phone line, right?
[28:00.570 --> 28:00.710]  Right.
[28:00.710 --> 28:01.750]  Any, any other requirements?
[28:01.850 --> 28:05.010]  Does the phone have to have certain features, or does it have to have call waiting, for instance?
[28:05.470 --> 28:18.030]  Um, well, they made me sign a paper, well, they made my parents sign a paper, since the phone line's in their name, that, uh, if it, if it messes with the, um, the device that calls out, then we're not allowed to have certain features, which include, uh,
[28:18.450 --> 28:21.810]  an answering machine, uh, call waiting, and three-way calling.
[28:22.190 --> 28:25.810]  But none of my options affect it, so we're allowed to keep our options.
[28:27.090 --> 28:33.910]  But, they said in, uh, you know, in some parts of the state that, uh, those features, uh, tamper with it.
[28:34.970 --> 28:35.390]  Uh-huh.
[28:35.530 --> 28:40.090]  They, uh, you know, the stutter dial tune, I guess, you know, confuses the machine or something, I don't know.
[28:40.330 --> 28:40.610]  Uh-huh.
[28:41.430 --> 28:43.510]  And have you ever, ever actually heard it make the call?
[28:43.730 --> 28:44.430]  Oh yeah, definitely.
[28:44.670 --> 28:45.390]  You've heard it make the call.
[28:45.470 --> 28:46.490]  So what does it sound like it's doing?
[28:46.490 --> 28:47.770]  Um, I don't know.
[28:48.150 --> 28:56.370]  It sounds, I mean, there's, it sounds like a modem in the middle of it, but like, when it begins, it's just a long, blaring beep.
[28:56.930 --> 28:57.290]  Uh-huh.
[28:57.290 --> 28:58.850]  I don't know how else to describe it.
[28:59.170 --> 28:59.550]  Uh-huh.
[28:59.550 --> 29:02.130]  So it's making some kind of, uh, some kind of connection, transmitting data.
[29:02.210 --> 29:03.450]  How long does the actual call last?
[29:03.690 --> 29:04.890]  Probably about ten seconds.
[29:05.410 --> 29:05.730]  Okay.
[29:06.070 --> 29:10.710]  So it's probably just transmitting something as far as, uh, you know, your ID, your location?
[29:11.190 --> 29:11.550]  Yeah.
[29:11.810 --> 29:12.390]  Things like that.
[29:13.070 --> 29:13.430]  Yes?
[29:13.430 --> 29:18.710]  It probably has a sequential number that it does, so it knows, like, what to be next, so you can't just replay it.
[29:18.950 --> 29:19.870]  That's what I would assume.
[29:20.830 --> 29:21.030]  Yeah.
[29:21.210 --> 29:24.470]  Well, that's assuming they're halfway intelligent, but that sort of makes sense.
[29:24.790 --> 29:25.090]  Right.
[29:25.090 --> 29:31.850]  Well, see, I don't think any, I don't think people like us have ever, uh, been given the opportunity to actually experiment with it, so you never know.
[29:32.030 --> 29:33.930]  We're not actually being given that opportunity yet.
[29:34.450 --> 29:34.570]  Yeah.
[29:34.630 --> 29:37.710]  But, uh, but hopefully, uh, hopefully we can figure something like this out.
[29:37.790 --> 29:45.810]  Now, I don't know, I don't have the statistics as far as how many people these days are under some kind of home confinement, but I do know the number is skyrocketing.
[29:46.170 --> 29:53.650]  And it's, uh, it's considered, even though prisons are more popular than ever, and we have over two million prisoners now, not everybody can get into prison.
[29:53.910 --> 29:54.070]  All right?
[29:54.190 --> 30:01.370]  So, for those people that are disappointed and have to stay home, they get ankle bracelets, and those things are, are just, they're a hot commodity these days.
[30:01.370 --> 30:14.350]  Well, they, the lady said that, well, the judge said that the only reason she wasn't locking me up was because they don't understand enough about hacking, and she said, in 10 years you'll probably be like the next, uh, car thief, or something like that.
[30:14.470 --> 30:15.890]  That's a real enlightened view, isn't it?
[30:16.030 --> 30:16.230]  Yeah.
[30:16.650 --> 30:22.850]  Well, that's the reason they did lock up Kevin Mitnick, is because they didn't understand the technology, so, uh, it's, uh, you don't win either way.
[30:23.170 --> 30:23.630]  Oh, definitely.
[30:24.130 --> 30:28.430]  I mean, I've been there before, and I'd rather be on home confinement than be there, though.
[30:28.630 --> 30:28.830]  Yeah.
[30:28.830 --> 30:28.850]  Yeah.
[30:29.110 --> 30:30.450]  Is it, is it uncomfortable at all?
[30:30.650 --> 30:31.050]  Oh, yeah.
[30:31.390 --> 30:31.630]  Really?
[30:32.070 --> 30:38.230]  I mean, you got inmates, you know, well, first you have correctional officers telling everybody why you're there, because you're a hacker.
[30:38.790 --> 30:41.770]  And then you have inmates telling you to hack on bank accounts and stupid stuff.
[30:41.770 --> 30:43.230]  No, I, obviously that's uncomfortable.
[30:43.370 --> 30:45.530]  I mean, wearing the, the, the ankle bracelet, is that uncomfortable?
[30:45.770 --> 30:46.570]  Oh, the ankle bracelet?
[30:46.730 --> 30:46.910]  Yeah.
[30:47.670 --> 30:48.030]  Uh-huh.
[30:48.070 --> 30:52.930]  I mean, it presses against your leg, I mean, it leaves marks, and you can't really move it, so.
[30:53.150 --> 30:53.470]  Uh-huh.
[30:53.910 --> 30:55.770]  Is it obvious you're wearing one when you're outside?
[30:56.250 --> 31:00.450]  Um, no, I mean, my parents go right over, I don't know, I wear baggy clothes there, so.
[31:00.790 --> 31:01.070]  Uh-huh.
[31:01.830 --> 31:03.690]  So anybody could be wearing an ankle bracelet?
[31:03.930 --> 31:04.250]  Sure.
[31:04.690 --> 31:05.690]  You just don't know.
[31:06.110 --> 31:06.490]  Wow.
[31:07.070 --> 31:11.550]  You know, I think it would be particularly scary if they, if they disguise them to look like regular pieces of jewelry.
[31:12.050 --> 31:12.210]  Uh-huh.
[31:12.210 --> 31:15.370]  So you don't know if it's an ankle bracelet or some other kind of monitoring device.
[31:15.850 --> 31:17.830]  Well, you can tell what this is.
[31:18.170 --> 31:18.490]  Yeah.
[31:18.770 --> 31:27.610]  It's, it's big and bulky, but I think it's, it's, it's the beginning of the technology, and I, I'm afraid we might move to something a little bit more, uh, uh, more, uh, more scary.
[31:27.930 --> 31:28.490]  Seraph is here.
[31:28.670 --> 31:29.170]  Hey, what's up?
[31:29.370 --> 31:29.870]  How's it going?
[31:30.190 --> 31:31.550]  We have a real, uh, packed house today.
[31:31.550 --> 31:31.570]  Okay.
[31:32.170 --> 31:39.430]  Just on that note of, um, surveillance equipment being disguised as jewelry, I'm sure everybody has read the article about the Java ring that appeared in 2600.
[31:40.170 --> 31:41.370]  Well, tell us, uh...
[31:41.370 --> 31:46.110]  Well, it's, um, it's got a, a chip that can perform various cryptographic functions.
[31:46.270 --> 31:51.550]  It can store information, and it can transmit that information just by being within a certain proximity to a reader.
[31:52.510 --> 31:56.230]  And if that reader is on a, uh, a phone handset or something like that, you might not even know it.
[31:57.130 --> 31:58.090]  Pretty scary stuff.
[31:58.290 --> 31:58.950]  Yes, it is.
[31:59.350 --> 32:02.150]  You can count while we, uh, we'll be talking about this more at H2K.
[32:02.450 --> 32:02.610]  Definitely.
[32:03.270 --> 32:04.930]  Experimenting with, uh, this new technology.
[32:05.810 --> 32:10.190]  Uh, is there anything else you want to, uh, you want to advise us on or, or relate to us?
[32:10.770 --> 32:15.250]  Um, yeah, uh, I'm not sure how true this is or not.
[32:15.470 --> 32:17.830]  Um, it, it was read on a SlashDots, uh, webpage.
[32:18.050 --> 32:18.250]  Uh-huh.
[32:18.870 --> 32:29.570]  Carnegie, uh, Mellon University, uh, supposedly an administrator there ran a scan on all the, uh, the whole entire network, scanning for, uh, drives that shared MP3s.
[32:29.890 --> 32:36.570]  And, um, if they had passwords on it, they actually cracked the passwords on people's computers to see if they had MP3s.
[32:36.570 --> 32:38.250]  And if they did, they killed their ethernet.
[32:39.250 --> 32:40.310]  Isaac, you look panicky.
[32:41.090 --> 32:44.590]  Well, I, I just see some very serious problems with this.
[32:44.850 --> 32:45.110]  Uh-huh.
[32:45.290 --> 32:46.770]  So far as privacy is concerned.
[32:47.010 --> 32:47.190]  Okay.
[32:47.410 --> 32:49.790]  Well, they said it was legal because it was their network.
[32:49.790 --> 32:58.050]  Well, if it's, fine, it's their network, but, uh, you know, breaking into somebody else's computer system is leaving their network.
[32:58.270 --> 32:58.410]  Exactly.
[32:58.410 --> 33:04.590]  If you want to sit there and monitor all the traffic and say, oh, look, that's an MP3 coming out of there, and then disable something, that's fine.
[33:04.770 --> 33:11.190]  But if you're actively trying to get into somebody else's machine, uh, you are, uh, effectively trespassing.
[33:11.330 --> 33:13.150]  I mean, we, we get in trouble for stuff like that.
[33:13.270 --> 33:15.290]  What if, what if it's an account on their machine, though?
[33:15.570 --> 33:17.170]  If it's an account on their machine?
[33:17.590 --> 33:19.010]  Then they're probably within their rights.
[33:19.250 --> 33:21.530]  Well, these were on people's PCs in their dorm rooms.
[33:21.570 --> 33:22.110]  In their dorm rooms?
[33:22.210 --> 33:22.370]  Yes.
[33:22.870 --> 33:25.550]  Breaking the passwords is one step too far, I would say.
[33:25.950 --> 33:28.070]  Especially for people in charge, you know?
[33:28.290 --> 33:28.850]  Well, I agree.
[33:28.850 --> 33:29.510]  Authority figures.
[33:30.450 --> 33:31.830]  That's, uh, that's kind of nuts.
[33:32.590 --> 33:34.950]  Our phone number is 212-209-2900.
[33:35.070 --> 33:40.010]  Isaac, did you hear about the, uh, the Catholic school kid who got kicked out of school because of his website at home?
[33:40.130 --> 33:40.630]  What is this?
[33:40.730 --> 33:42.190]  It was on the BAI Evening News, actually.
[33:42.310 --> 33:42.990]  You can catch it at 11.
[33:43.130 --> 33:48.030]  But, uh, basically this, this kid had a webpage, and it used an obscenity.
[33:48.030 --> 33:49.190]  Four-letter word.
[33:49.930 --> 33:55.370]  And the Catholic school, this was right here in New York, the Catholic school he went to said that's not in keeping with our way of life.
[33:55.370 --> 34:00.030]  And they expelled him because of something on his website in his house.
[34:00.390 --> 34:00.590]  Hmm.
[34:00.590 --> 34:00.610]  Hmm.
[34:01.270 --> 34:02.150]  Well, is it a private school?
[34:02.570 --> 34:03.370]  Yeah, it's a private school.
[34:03.570 --> 34:05.210]  Well, they can kick him out if they like.
[34:05.510 --> 34:06.650]  Well, they won't accept your money.
[34:06.990 --> 34:09.470]  You know, it's, uh, yeah.
[34:10.050 --> 34:13.930]  There are certain standards when you go into institutions like that, and they try to maintain them.
[34:14.050 --> 34:14.710]  Do I agree with it?
[34:14.770 --> 34:14.950]  No.
[34:15.110 --> 34:19.350]  But, uh, they are, I mean, it's their student body, they can shape it the way they wish.
[34:19.350 --> 34:25.870]  I went to a Catholic school, and when I got caught for hacking NASA, I mean, they really didn't, uh, expel me.
[34:25.970 --> 34:27.010]  I mean, they treated me the same.
[34:27.170 --> 34:28.750]  I was allowed computer access and everything.
[34:28.850 --> 34:33.370]  I mean, I think that kid, you know, he can say whatever he wants on his own webpage.
[34:34.110 --> 34:39.970]  Yeah, I think, I think you have issues of, uh, freedom of speech that kind of, uh, surpass what a school can do because it's private.
[34:40.110 --> 34:44.290]  I mean, you can't have a school kick someone out because of their race or, or color or things like that.
[34:44.390 --> 34:44.430]  True.
[34:44.430 --> 34:46.850]  Oh, I, I could definitely see something like this go into litigation.
[34:46.850 --> 34:47.430]  Oh, it is.
[34:47.850 --> 34:48.590]  Okay, well...
[34:48.590 --> 34:50.270]  It's going to litigation in a, in a bus.
[34:50.450 --> 34:53.390]  That, that, uh, it, it could certainly happen, but so, I don't know.
[34:53.770 --> 34:54.030]  All right.
[34:54.170 --> 34:55.750]  Why am I the political correspondent here?
[34:55.890 --> 34:57.350]  Well, I just, uh, figured you'd be interested.
[34:57.650 --> 34:57.850]  Okay.
[34:58.010 --> 35:00.090]  Let's take some phone calls, 212-209-2900.
[35:00.090 --> 35:02.630]  We have, uh, Zell on the phone with us, uh, with his ankle bracelet.
[35:02.770 --> 35:05.410]  Hopefully, hopefully it won't make a call while we're talking to you.
[35:05.490 --> 35:06.550]  That would be, that would be very bad.
[35:06.670 --> 35:10.510]  But if, if you were to walk outside, though, it would, it would make a, make a call.
[35:10.890 --> 35:11.230]  Yes.
[35:11.430 --> 35:12.030]  But don't do that.
[35:12.250 --> 35:13.110]  No, I don't mind.
[35:14.050 --> 35:14.750]  Second phone call.
[35:14.810 --> 35:15.030]  Good evening.
[35:15.110 --> 35:15.570]  You're on the air.
[35:16.510 --> 35:17.230]  Yes, Emmanuel.
[35:17.370 --> 35:18.650]  I'd like to talk about telephones.
[35:18.950 --> 35:29.030]  I work in two different places, and each one blocks long distance calls, and you have to have, uh, a specific access code to get, to make long distance calls.
[35:29.030 --> 35:37.330]  And I find that if I dial 101-6868, I go way beyond it, and I can make any call anywhere, anywhere in the world I can.
[35:37.630 --> 35:43.530]  I have to, and it, it, you know, it's not, uh, I mean, it's completely free, and I wonder if that makes sense.
[35:43.590 --> 35:44.670]  Well, it's actually not free.
[35:44.670 --> 35:54.970]  What you're doing is you're dialing a carrier access code and simply bypassing your, your system's primitive restriction, which apparently doesn't block, uh, the, the access codes of 1-0-1-0-X-X-X.
[35:55.250 --> 35:55.670]  Uh-huh.
[35:55.750 --> 36:00.210]  So you could probably dial any access code, 1-0-1-0-3-2-1, or whatever those ones are.
[36:00.670 --> 36:05.030]  And, uh, you, you will, I mean, the company will get a bill, or whoever will get a bill.
[36:05.490 --> 36:07.170]  Uh, whoever owns the place.
[36:07.370 --> 36:07.970]  Yeah, definitely.
[36:08.170 --> 36:10.670]  They, it just won't appear the way they expect it to.
[36:10.710 --> 36:14.010]  And it won't appear under my name and my access code, and they're not going to know where it came from.
[36:14.070 --> 36:15.750]  Well, how many people are, are working?
[36:16.130 --> 36:16.890]  Is this an office?
[36:17.910 --> 36:23.770]  Uh, it's a, uh, a medical clinic that, you know, that has phones, different offices, and I use it.
[36:23.890 --> 36:26.570]  I'm a physician, and I use the offices occasionally.
[36:26.790 --> 36:33.210]  And, you know, when you try to make a long distance call, it says, you know, dial in access codes for anything outside of New York City.
[36:33.530 --> 36:42.850]  If I dial, but if I dial the 1-0-1-6-8-6-8, and then I dial the one area code, and wherever, or even the international code, it goes right through.
[36:43.870 --> 36:44.230]  Yeah.
[36:44.490 --> 36:47.870]  Well, the reason is that they fail to put a, a restriction on there.
[36:48.450 --> 36:50.710]  Ah, the magic of misconfigured systems.
[36:50.990 --> 36:51.090]  Yeah.
[36:51.430 --> 36:51.690]  All right.
[36:52.270 --> 36:53.570]  Uh, good, good luck with that.
[36:53.750 --> 36:54.750]  All right.
[36:55.410 --> 36:55.770]  Yeah.
[36:55.910 --> 36:57.050]  It's, uh, it's amazing.
[36:57.190 --> 36:59.630]  You know, people have been using the same tricks now for, for decades.
[37:00.350 --> 37:04.110]  As long as carrier access codes have been around, that's been a way to, uh, to defeat, uh, security.
[37:04.390 --> 37:05.130]  Let's take another phone call.
[37:05.210 --> 37:05.470]  Good evening.
[37:05.610 --> 37:05.970]  You're on the air.
[37:07.050 --> 37:07.410]  Yes.
[37:07.630 --> 37:07.990]  Hello.
[37:08.250 --> 37:08.730]  Speak up, please.
[37:09.170 --> 37:09.610]  Yes, hi.
[37:09.610 --> 37:12.370]  Um, I'm, I'm, I'm in an experiment myself right now.
[37:12.670 --> 37:13.690]  I'm dealing with microchips.
[37:14.030 --> 37:21.670]  Uh, I am being paid, uh, they were looking for candidates to do a research study at, uh, University of Pennsylvania.
[37:22.110 --> 37:31.570]  And, uh, I have a microchip experiment that, uh, you, and they put it under the skin and they scan it and they want to see how long it will last under the skin.
[37:31.570 --> 37:33.270]  You have a microchip under your skin?
[37:33.510 --> 37:34.610]  Yes, it's under the hand.
[37:34.870 --> 37:38.710]  There's some, they can put it in the hand and, or other places on their arm.
[37:38.970 --> 37:41.170]  It depends on where, but mine is under the hand.
[37:41.310 --> 37:41.490]  Okay.
[37:41.490 --> 37:44.450]  Everybody just line up and ask your questions in an orderly fashion.
[37:44.550 --> 37:44.790]  Go ahead.
[37:44.950 --> 37:45.210]  Okay.
[37:45.370 --> 37:47.430]  Uh, what, what purpose is it serving?
[37:47.430 --> 37:53.350]  Just to see if the, uh, the, uh, chip itself won't become, or would be rejected by the body or?
[37:53.350 --> 38:02.430]  Well, it's to see if it were rejected by the body and also the regular checks, the, uh, information that they put on it to see if it will show up on.
[38:02.610 --> 38:02.770]  Okay.
[38:02.770 --> 38:05.990]  So it's not actually monitoring any of your bodily functions.
[38:06.290 --> 38:07.250]  No, it doesn't monitor.
[38:07.250 --> 38:09.010]  It just, it just stores information.
[38:09.310 --> 38:13.410]  It can be information can be put onto it and taken off back and forth.
[38:13.890 --> 38:17.090]  Uh, it's, they actually do this with animals right now.
[38:17.630 --> 38:18.750]  The, uh, veterinary tracking.
[38:19.010 --> 38:19.930]  Yeah, exactly.
[38:20.050 --> 38:22.470]  But they're trying it under humans now, but it can.
[38:22.690 --> 38:22.870]  Oh, that's comforting.
[38:24.130 --> 38:27.510]  Uh, this particular microchip, uh, it can store information.
[38:27.750 --> 38:29.530]  It can be put into it and retrieved.
[38:29.890 --> 38:30.210]  Interesting.
[38:30.410 --> 38:33.890]  But they want to see how, uh, durable it is, I guess, to see how long it lasts.
[38:34.110 --> 38:35.230]  So how long are you here for that?
[38:35.650 --> 38:36.390]  Uh, yes.
[38:36.810 --> 38:42.390]  And if it depends on how long you stay with the study, you get paid, you know, I've done other studies before.
[38:42.590 --> 38:43.590]  Does it matter how old I am?
[38:44.230 --> 38:44.550]  Pardon?
[38:44.750 --> 38:46.450]  Does it matter how old I am if I'm under 18?
[38:47.710 --> 38:52.090]  Uh, yes, you have to be, uh, I think 18 to 64, something like that.
[38:52.090 --> 38:53.150]  What if I had parental consent?
[38:54.330 --> 38:56.170]  Why, why are you so eager for this?
[38:57.430 --> 38:58.630]  It sounds cool, man.
[38:58.630 --> 38:59.750]  Well, it sounds interesting.
[38:59.870 --> 39:01.530]  I don't know if I'd want someone planting something.
[39:01.770 --> 39:03.130]  Did it hurt at all to put this thing?
[39:03.490 --> 39:04.710]  Did it hurt to put it under your hand?
[39:04.710 --> 39:05.630]  No, it doesn't hurt.
[39:05.870 --> 39:11.430]  It kind of, similar to getting a needle, uh, the kind they used to use with the gun.
[39:11.890 --> 39:16.190]  When they give you, I was in the military and they used to give us, uh, vaccinations with this gun.
[39:16.330 --> 39:17.250]  They shoot it into your arms.
[39:17.430 --> 39:20.750]  It's a slight, you know, jolt, but it's not painful now.
[39:21.050 --> 39:21.250]  Yeah.
[39:21.490 --> 39:27.750]  But it's very, um, I guess the best way to say it, it's very precision-like.
[39:27.750 --> 39:29.890]  It just goes, it's just quick.
[39:31.330 --> 39:34.830]  And it's just, the way they insert it into you is just so fast.
[39:34.830 --> 39:35.930]  You don't feel anything hardly.
[39:36.130 --> 39:37.690]  And are you aware that something is there?
[39:40.330 --> 39:41.870]  Uh, no, not really.
[39:42.090 --> 39:44.850]  It's, it's, everything is still normal.
[39:45.150 --> 39:46.150]  It's not at all visible?
[39:47.070 --> 39:48.890]  No, you can't, you can't see it.
[39:48.890 --> 39:50.250]  You can feel under the skin.
[39:50.450 --> 39:52.970]  It's very, very, very, you can barely feel it.
[39:53.390 --> 39:53.650]  Barely.
[39:53.810 --> 39:57.810]  But you can't really, you have to look for it type of thing when you feel it.
[39:57.870 --> 40:00.110]  But they told me not to, to mess with it or anything.
[40:00.270 --> 40:01.510]  Just go about my normal activity.
[40:01.930 --> 40:02.130]  Uh-huh.
[40:02.210 --> 40:04.150]  So much for the durability test.
[40:04.850 --> 40:05.210]  Wow.
[40:05.490 --> 40:06.710]  Do you guys have a phone number there?
[40:08.830 --> 40:10.310]  Uh, I think he's talking to you, caller?
[40:10.630 --> 40:14.890]  Uh, actually, I don't have the number, but it's the University of Pennsylvania.
[40:14.890 --> 40:19.490]  And, uh, it's a, um, in a research lab there.
[40:19.870 --> 40:22.030]  Well, do you know what department it's in?
[40:22.990 --> 40:27.230]  Uh, this is, uh, oh God, I can't think of the name of it.
[40:27.290 --> 40:29.050]  I don't know the name of the department itself.
[40:29.050 --> 40:31.310]  I can get the information and call back next week.
[40:31.350 --> 40:32.770]  What, what, what city, what city is this?
[40:33.170 --> 40:34.490]  Uh, this is down in Philadelphia.
[40:34.710 --> 40:35.070]  In Philadelphia.
[40:35.370 --> 40:35.550]  Okay.
[40:35.810 --> 40:36.550]  The University of Pennsylvania.
[40:36.710 --> 40:38.790]  They do, they're in Drexler University.
[40:39.150 --> 40:41.890]  And, and in New York, there's a lot of places where they do studies.
[40:41.930 --> 40:43.890]  Uh, I've participated in before.
[40:44.170 --> 40:44.350]  Uh-huh.
[40:44.890 --> 40:45.390]  It's not a curiosity.
[40:45.570 --> 40:46.410]  How much are they paying you for this?
[40:47.070 --> 40:48.550]  Uh, well, it varies.
[40:48.790 --> 40:50.850]  It, uh, depends on how long you stay with the study.
[40:51.130 --> 40:51.330]  Uh-huh.
[40:51.430 --> 40:56.070]  Um, it could range anywhere from $500 to about $2,000.
[40:56.450 --> 40:58.290]  That, just to have a microchip implanted in your...
[40:58.290 --> 40:59.010]  Yeah, if you go through the whole...
[40:59.490 --> 40:59.650]  Oh.
[40:59.810 --> 41:00.970]  ...finish the whole program.
[41:01.390 --> 41:01.910]  And what do they do?
[41:01.910 --> 41:02.530]  Just a couple of months.
[41:02.970 --> 41:03.830]  They write information?
[41:03.850 --> 41:04.290]  You get $2,000.
[41:04.810 --> 41:07.110]  They write information to the chip and they implant it in you?
[41:07.230 --> 41:08.430]  Or, I mean, what is it?
[41:08.710 --> 41:10.590]  Uh, I don't know all those details.
[41:10.790 --> 41:12.990]  They don't, uh, I asked them questions.
[41:12.990 --> 41:17.510]  They said they're just trying to see if it holds, if it will keep the information and how long.
[41:17.870 --> 41:20.530]  If they can retrieve it and put the information back and forth.
[41:20.910 --> 41:23.430]  Would they let you choose what information gets put on it?
[41:23.430 --> 41:23.770]  Oh, no.
[41:25.350 --> 41:28.570]  You're getting paid and you signed a consent form and so forth.
[41:28.830 --> 41:32.010]  Um, but I ask a lot of questions as far as it being safe, you know.
[41:32.190 --> 41:32.470]  Oh, yeah.
[41:32.570 --> 41:35.550]  But, you know, if you need the money, uh, it's...
[41:35.550 --> 41:36.130]  You can...
[41:36.130 --> 41:37.170]  You have to take your chance.
[41:37.190 --> 41:38.830]  They take it out when it's over, right?
[41:39.130 --> 41:39.510]  Oh, yeah.
[41:39.530 --> 41:40.310]  They don't just leave it there.
[41:40.450 --> 41:42.030]  Yeah, they take this out, right?
[41:42.190 --> 41:42.530]  Yeah.
[41:43.470 --> 41:44.670]  All right, listen, thanks for calling.
[41:44.730 --> 41:47.750]  And if you find out more, email us, OTH at 2600.com.
[41:47.950 --> 41:48.290]  We'll...
[41:48.290 --> 41:48.790]  Yes, I will.
[41:49.190 --> 41:49.750]  Okay, great.
[41:50.010 --> 41:50.290]  Good luck.
[41:50.290 --> 41:50.410]  Bye-bye.
[41:50.850 --> 41:53.750]  Do I even have to go into the implications of something like that?
[41:53.870 --> 41:55.650]  Well, no, I'm just extremely frightened right now because I just...
[41:55.650 --> 41:58.430]  I feel like I've looked into the future and it's pretty dark.
[41:58.810 --> 41:58.950]  Yeah.
[41:58.950 --> 42:01.650]  Emmanuel, that falls under the GPS category of...
[42:01.650 --> 42:02.210]  It sure does.
[42:02.630 --> 42:04.310]  ...implanting GPS into your body.
[42:04.450 --> 42:12.730]  And I see this being done to infants at birth, you know, like they're assigned an SSN and they'll be, you know, implanted with a little chip for their protection because we have all these maniacs out here.
[42:12.890 --> 42:13.490]  Well, that's scary.
[42:13.590 --> 42:14.970]  I'd have to move to Mexico or something.
[42:15.430 --> 42:16.310]  Well, I don't know.
[42:16.410 --> 42:18.670]  You'd have to move off planet, I think, to avoid this.
[42:19.630 --> 42:19.910]  Whew.
[42:20.250 --> 42:21.930]  You really want to try something like that, huh?
[42:21.930 --> 42:23.070]  Yeah, that sounds very interesting.
[42:23.250 --> 42:24.970]  Well, you want to try it for an experimental purpose.
[42:25.210 --> 42:26.250]  Well, I don't care about the money.
[42:26.350 --> 42:27.930]  It's just, you know, that would be pretty cool.
[42:28.130 --> 42:28.390]  Yeah.
[42:28.470 --> 42:29.530]  Well, you want to mess with it.
[42:29.570 --> 42:30.310]  You want to play around with it.
[42:30.470 --> 42:30.750]  Exactly.
[42:30.750 --> 42:33.390]  But other people won't have a choice.
[42:33.590 --> 42:37.090]  They'll just have it implanted in them and they'll be monitored all the time.
[42:37.630 --> 42:38.030]  Yes.
[42:38.150 --> 42:39.270]  I have a question about safety.
[42:39.670 --> 42:42.810]  He's got that leg bracelet that's transmitting radio waves all day.
[42:43.250 --> 42:43.530]  Uh-huh.
[42:43.530 --> 42:47.290]  You know, I know someone that, like, had a beeper and it made him go sterile.
[42:47.850 --> 42:49.670]  Like, can you sue for that or something?
[42:50.470 --> 42:50.890]  Uh-huh.
[42:50.890 --> 42:58.610]  If you're part of the medical, uh, uh, one of those programs on the form, it says, uh, you can't sue us unless you, like, die.
[42:58.750 --> 42:59.970]  What about the leg bracelet thing?
[43:00.030 --> 43:00.290]  It's not...
[43:00.290 --> 43:01.350]  He doesn't want all for that.
[43:01.470 --> 43:02.130]  Now, hold on a second.
[43:02.190 --> 43:04.490]  The leg bracelet is simply an ankle bracelet, actually.
[43:04.730 --> 43:07.970]  Now, that's transmitting a wireless signal to your phone line?
[43:08.330 --> 43:10.510]  Uh, to the base that's connected to my phone line.
[43:10.610 --> 43:10.830]  Hang on.
[43:10.850 --> 43:14.250]  If I can actually find enough batteries, I can pick up the signal that sends on my scanner.
[43:14.510 --> 43:15.150]  Oh, really?
[43:15.350 --> 43:15.530]  Yeah.
[43:16.410 --> 43:17.190]  Do you know the frequency?
[43:17.650 --> 43:18.030]  Uh, yes.
[43:18.430 --> 43:19.650]  Well, I guess you could tell us that.
[43:20.030 --> 43:20.350]  Yeah.
[43:20.370 --> 43:21.670]  Not violating any laws, right?
[43:21.950 --> 43:22.450]  It's in...
[43:22.450 --> 43:24.310]  It's like 71 point something.
[43:24.430 --> 43:25.150]  I have to find...
[43:25.150 --> 43:26.390]  I need two more batteries.
[43:26.630 --> 43:26.950]  Okay.
[43:27.010 --> 43:27.970]  Why don't you look for that?
[43:28.030 --> 43:28.950]  We'll take another phone call, okay?
[43:28.950 --> 43:29.130]  All right.
[43:29.410 --> 43:29.710]  All right.
[43:29.770 --> 43:31.070]  212-209-2900.
[43:31.150 --> 43:31.430]  Good evening.
[43:31.530 --> 43:31.970]  You're on the air.
[43:33.070 --> 43:33.650]  Hello, gentlemen.
[43:33.730 --> 43:34.070]  How you doing?
[43:34.190 --> 43:34.830]  Okay, how are you?
[43:35.050 --> 43:35.450]  All right.
[43:35.530 --> 43:36.690]  This is Joe from across the river.
[43:37.410 --> 43:40.450]  Uh, that last call, it sounded like, uh, sounded like he was watching that...
[43:40.450 --> 43:41.490]  that show that got canceled.
[43:41.610 --> 43:42.090]  Harsh Realm.
[43:42.730 --> 43:43.010]  Yeah.
[43:43.230 --> 43:45.390]  They put a chip on the guy's chest.
[43:45.970 --> 43:50.090]  Anyway, I just want to comment on Bill Gates and, uh, Microsoft's latest, uh...
[43:50.090 --> 43:50.330]  Okay.
[43:50.610 --> 44:00.570]  Uh, and I just hope the Justice Department doesn't back down, you know, and, uh, and just give him some, like, uh, small and, like, a billion dollar fine, which would be small in Bill's eyes.
[44:01.450 --> 44:01.730]  Uh-huh.
[44:01.890 --> 44:03.970]  A billion dollar fine would be kind of small, I guess.
[44:03.970 --> 44:07.970]  Yeah, it would be like, uh, like what he'll make in a day if the stock goes up a couple of bucks.
[44:08.330 --> 44:08.610]  Uh-huh.
[44:08.770 --> 44:17.350]  Um, but just after all he's done to people and all the technology he stole, and how really nothing creative has come out of them, uh, they deserve it.
[44:17.630 --> 44:17.870]  They've...
[44:17.870 --> 44:18.430]  Oh, come on.
[44:18.470 --> 44:19.810]  They came up with Microsoft Bob.
[44:21.390 --> 44:23.210]  That should be life imprisonment right there.
[44:23.850 --> 44:35.690]  I think that so many people are running Windows that they're actually stifling, uh, what's available to us because computer speed is, like, far out surpassed what Windows is able to handle.
[44:35.990 --> 44:36.450]  Uh-huh.
[44:36.550 --> 44:40.250]  It's such a, such a slow and antiquated system pieced together.
[44:40.870 --> 44:46.650]  Um, and I, I think he, uh, you know, he, I just hope the Justice Department follows through on this and doesn't back down.
[44:47.090 --> 44:48.690]  And, uh, look what he did to Apple.
[44:48.770 --> 44:49.670]  He almost killed Apple.
[44:49.890 --> 44:55.690]  Then he turns around and lends them money, almost like, uh, was that a bribe to shut them up from, uh, from not jumping on this lawsuit?
[44:56.350 --> 44:58.730]  Um, so now he's got a piece of them.
[44:58.730 --> 44:59.750]  Now Apple's doing great.
[45:00.110 --> 45:02.910]  And, uh, he's got his, he's got his little hand in that too now again.
[45:03.390 --> 45:06.250]  Keep a close eye on the MSNBC coverage of this.
[45:06.510 --> 45:08.630]  I'd be very curious to see how slanted they are.
[45:09.030 --> 45:11.870]  Uh, uh, uh, uh, they're not slanted, are they?
[45:12.030 --> 45:12.850]  I don't know.
[45:13.970 --> 45:16.110]  But it's, uh, it's, look, that's just my opinion.
[45:16.250 --> 45:19.570]  I could be wrong, but, uh, he, he, he deserves what he's going to get in.
[45:19.910 --> 45:25.190]  And, uh, there was, there was other operating systems that, that got squashed maybe because they didn't market them properly.
[45:25.190 --> 45:29.330]  I think a decent one was OS 2, IBM, and they, they blew it.
[45:29.430 --> 45:30.170]  What about CPM?
[45:31.110 --> 45:32.010]  Uh, I'm not familiar with that.
[45:32.090 --> 45:32.930]  Oh, that was a good one.
[45:33.390 --> 45:34.990]  Uh, but, but there's, there's better ones out there.
[45:35.070 --> 45:36.430]  People say, what alternatives do we have?
[45:36.530 --> 45:38.210]  Because we only know, we only know Windows.
[45:38.410 --> 45:40.290]  That's all we've been allowed to, to really explore.
[45:40.510 --> 45:40.690]  Uh-huh.
[45:40.870 --> 45:45.150]  Hopefully Linux will take off and be half as good as, as they want it to be.
[45:45.370 --> 45:45.570]  Right.
[45:45.850 --> 45:47.110]  Uh, and give people some options.
[45:47.370 --> 45:51.790]  It might take a little time to shake things out, but I think Microsoft's better days behind them.
[45:52.590 --> 45:54.050]  I don't know what your opinion is on it.
[45:54.190 --> 45:57.630]  Oh no, I, I definitely feel that, uh, they got to pay the piper at some point.
[45:57.750 --> 46:04.410]  I mean, this is, uh, it's scary when you see things become so big that they just are uncontrollable and, and all-encompassing.
[46:04.450 --> 46:09.230]  I mean, if you look at any computer screen right now, any computer screen, guaranteed you will see something Microsoft on it.
[46:09.770 --> 46:14.510]  And even if you try to keep Microsoft off it, that, that word just shows up all the time.
[46:14.510 --> 46:15.950]  And, and, and you can't avoid it.
[46:16.430 --> 46:22.550]  And, and, and, you know, the, the computer age is something where a lot of people can be contributing different things and trying different technologies.
[46:23.030 --> 46:24.410]  We shouldn't have to conform.
[46:24.550 --> 46:26.990]  We shouldn't have to, uh, all follow one particular leader.
[46:27.450 --> 46:29.990]  And it's, it, it's sad to see things go this way.
[46:30.330 --> 46:30.730]  Exactly.
[46:30.970 --> 46:34.050]  And you know who's not really too far removed from them is Intel.
[46:34.770 --> 46:35.250]  Uh huh.
[46:35.290 --> 46:39.490]  Because of what they've, uh, because they're in 95% of the PCs that were being built.
[46:40.010 --> 46:47.230]  And Microsoft Windows was being put on the Intel chip, which is being basically designed to run, uh, around Windows.
[46:48.250 --> 46:50.750]  Uh, I don't think Intel's too far removed from them.
[46:50.890 --> 46:55.110]  And it's curious, it's really funny how a week or two ago, the Dow put them both on the, uh, on the exchange.
[46:56.030 --> 46:56.910]  Yeah, it is interesting.
[46:57.050 --> 46:57.590]  It is interesting.
[46:57.730 --> 46:58.290]  They replaced that.
[46:58.590 --> 46:59.330]  About 10 years too late.
[47:00.070 --> 47:00.390]  All right.
[47:00.390 --> 47:01.670]  To represent corporate America.
[47:01.930 --> 47:03.990]  Well, we'll certainly be watching this story, but, uh, thanks.
[47:04.190 --> 47:05.170]  Thanks for, uh...
[47:05.170 --> 47:05.710]  It's really a great show, guys.
[47:05.950 --> 47:06.290]  All right.
[47:06.410 --> 47:06.590]  Good night.
[47:06.890 --> 47:07.210]  I don't know.
[47:07.210 --> 47:15.890]  I, I, I still tend to think that this country, uh, was founded on, uh, freedom and capitalism, where, uh, if you have a successful product, you can market it to your heart's content.
[47:16.170 --> 47:17.790]  Yeah, but this, this goes beyond marketing.
[47:17.950 --> 47:22.190]  This, this, this enters into, uh, suppressing other people, suppressing other technologies.
[47:22.430 --> 47:23.330]  How is it suppressing other technologies?
[47:23.370 --> 47:26.850]  Well, by, by, by forcing people to use Microsoft products.
[47:26.910 --> 47:31.330]  For instance, if, if, if you put out a product, you have to market it for Windows.
[47:32.390 --> 47:34.430]  I mean, you, you, you are, you are pushed into doing that.
[47:34.470 --> 47:36.130]  It depends on who you want to reach.
[47:36.130 --> 47:36.550]  Uh-huh.
[47:36.690 --> 47:39.230]  If you want to reach American public, you won't...
[47:39.230 --> 47:41.510]  Microsoft Windows, Microsoft Windows is a reasonable consumer product.
[47:42.250 --> 47:42.550]  Okay.
[47:42.810 --> 47:43.010]  Uh-huh.
[47:43.010 --> 47:53.830]  People are willing to put up with the thing crashing, and they're willing to put up with bloatware, and they're willing to put up with all of the crap that they've managed to pack into that little box with the red, yellow, green, and blue window on.
[47:53.830 --> 47:55.250]  Well, Isaac, people are willing to put up with UPN.
[47:55.350 --> 47:56.210]  It doesn't make it okay.
[47:56.950 --> 47:57.270]  All right?
[47:57.270 --> 47:58.110]  They have alternatives.
[47:58.270 --> 48:00.830]  It's just that nobody is really motivated to go and investigate them.
[48:01.350 --> 48:02.870]  Well, that's the point, you know, that...
[48:02.870 --> 48:06.530]  Microsoft has a very big niche, which makes a lot of people unhappy, but...
[48:06.530 --> 48:11.670]  We, as individuals, do not have the power to go and challenge Microsoft and say, you're wrong, you must do it this way.
[48:11.750 --> 48:12.110]  Sure you do.
[48:12.390 --> 48:13.150]  Of course we don't.
[48:13.250 --> 48:15.550]  How can, how, how can, how can you and I go out there...
[48:15.550 --> 48:15.650]  Don't buy it.
[48:15.930 --> 48:16.250]  Don't...
[48:16.250 --> 48:17.750]  Oh, that's really gonna hurt Microsoft.
[48:17.930 --> 48:20.310]  That's really gonna make them think twice when I don't buy their product.
[48:20.310 --> 48:20.690]  Wait a second.
[48:20.770 --> 48:21.810]  I thought this was about having...
[48:21.810 --> 48:22.510]  I don't buy it anyway.
[48:22.730 --> 48:26.710]  How, I thought this was about having a superior technology on your desktop.
[48:26.930 --> 48:28.630]  Now you just want to go out and hurt Microsoft.
[48:29.470 --> 48:31.770]  There's, there's, there's a very big difference there.
[48:32.090 --> 48:37.790]  You have the alternative to go out and run something like NetBSD, run something like FreeBSD, run something like Linux.
[48:37.990 --> 48:39.010]  And people are starting to do that.
[48:39.130 --> 48:39.330]  Correct.
[48:39.510 --> 48:45.270]  That, that, that, that is definitely true, but, uh, but you do not have the same amount of things that you can run.
[48:45.430 --> 48:47.430]  Well, then you want to use a Microsoft product.
[48:47.950 --> 48:48.310]  Because...
[48:48.310 --> 48:50.650]  If you want to play Quake...
[48:50.650 --> 48:52.030]  Alright, well, Quake's a bad example.
[48:52.030 --> 49:06.370]  If you, if you want to play one of these games that will only run on your Wintel platform, I'm sorry, you're gonna have to get a Wintel platform machine unless you can sit down and port it, or convince the company that's writing it that they have a market sufficient to support some other operating system.
[49:06.370 --> 49:08.670]  Well, it's awfully hard to do when you have a monopoly like Microsoft.
[49:08.890 --> 49:09.170]  Well, then write yourself.
[49:09.170 --> 49:11.930]  Pretty much calling the tunes, you know, calling, calling...
[49:11.930 --> 49:14.250]  Hey, it's, it's part of what America is.
[49:14.250 --> 49:27.230]  Well, then it's part of what sucks about America, because it's, it's, it's the fact that we keep moving into these situations where there's, there's corporate mergers, one company being dominant over all others, and, and having to toe the line and not having any alternatives.
[49:27.230 --> 49:28.450]  You have alternatives.
[49:28.990 --> 49:29.590]  They, they...
[49:29.590 --> 49:35.690]  The alternatives exist, it's just that nobody is motivated to go out and investigate them, because they're rather content with Microsoft.
[49:36.030 --> 49:36.710]  It's not just that though.
[49:37.330 --> 49:37.590]  I'm sorry.
[49:37.590 --> 49:38.570]  I don't think they're content with Microsoft.
[49:38.750 --> 49:42.050]  I think they know how to, to get out from under Microsoft shadows.
[49:42.310 --> 49:44.170]  But it's not just that people aren't using the alternatives.
[49:44.390 --> 49:51.630]  It's that the alternatives are being kept down due to the fact that Microsoft has so many exclusive agreements with software companies, with hardware vendors...
[49:51.630 --> 50:00.170]  Where, I mean for instance..." For companies like Dell and Compaq, for a long time, every machine they sold, they had to, in effect, pretend they were putting windows on it, whether or not they were.
[50:00.310 --> 50:03.950]  And they were paying some amount of money to Microsoft for doing that, per-machine they sold.
[50:03.970 --> 50:08.390]  If they sold a machine with Linux, if they sold a machine with 3BSD they paid to put windows on that machine.
[50:09.030 --> 50:20.190]  And rather than going for other operating systems and still paying ca-per-machine sold, licensing fee, they just sell the Microsoft product, and that keeps other competitors down.
[50:20.190 --> 50:22.290]  And that's one of the things that Judge Jackson cited.
[50:22.970 --> 50:25.150]  Yeah, I mean, it does not seem like the American way.
[50:25.230 --> 50:26.850]  It doesn't seem like a fair way of doing business.
[50:27.010 --> 50:28.610]  It seems like intimidation tactics to me.
[50:28.710 --> 50:33.770]  Well, I say that I'm part of the Apple family, but even look at Apple Computer.
[50:33.930 --> 50:36.090]  You have a completely closed architecture there.
[50:36.210 --> 50:39.010]  If you're not in bed with Apple, you can't produce something for it.
[50:39.030 --> 50:39.150]  Hold on a second.
[50:39.370 --> 50:40.790]  That's a hardware and software.
[50:40.910 --> 50:42.230]  It's a specialized machine, okay?
[50:42.410 --> 50:42.730]  Understood.
[50:43.770 --> 50:48.890]  If you want to run a particular application on a Mac, you have to get something that's written for the Mac.
[50:48.890 --> 50:49.150]  Correct.
[50:49.410 --> 50:50.870]  But Microsoft does not make hardware.
[50:51.310 --> 50:52.450]  Microsoft makes software.
[50:52.470 --> 50:52.890]  Makes software.
[50:53.130 --> 50:54.630]  So they're even out of that group.
[50:54.750 --> 50:57.790]  They're not a complete vertical marketing scheme.
[50:57.790 --> 51:02.490]  They manage to simply survive on an operating system, which admittedly sucks.
[51:02.690 --> 51:03.970]  I refuse to use it.
[51:04.010 --> 51:09.650]  In fact, my entire length of time using any Windows operating system is measured in hours over my lifetime.
[51:10.090 --> 51:17.470]  But they have a sufficiently reasonable product for the audience that they're trying to get to.
[51:17.470 --> 51:20.410]  And they sustain it through momentum and contracts and not much else.
[51:20.590 --> 51:20.770]  Correct.
[51:21.070 --> 51:24.190]  Well, I think Microsoft's actually trying to move into the hardware thing.
[51:24.270 --> 51:25.750]  They make mouses now and keyboards.
[51:26.070 --> 51:30.390]  Well, they originally marketed the Microsoft mouse to go with Windows, the operating system.
[51:31.490 --> 51:32.150]  What's next?
[51:32.170 --> 51:33.330]  The Microsoft motherboard?
[51:33.790 --> 51:38.130]  Well, I'm sure you can hear more about this on the Personal Computer Show tomorrow night at this time.
[51:38.350 --> 51:41.290]  We'll talk about corporate issues such as this, but...
[51:41.290 --> 51:42.010]  Yeah, we've got to move on.
[51:42.090 --> 51:45.430]  Yeah, we've got to move on to other phone calls and things like that.
[51:46.370 --> 51:48.170]  Including this phone call.
[51:48.450 --> 51:48.970]  Listen to this.
[51:50.870 --> 51:51.790]  That's kind of scary.
[51:51.990 --> 51:53.350]  Is that the coolest ring you've ever heard in your life?
[51:54.290 --> 51:55.570]  Welcome to the toilet zone.
[51:55.810 --> 51:57.210]  I mean, they have echoes and things.
[51:57.250 --> 51:57.850]  This is my new phone.
[51:58.110 --> 51:59.210]  That's an echoing ring.
[51:59.210 --> 52:00.690]  I just bought this phone yesterday.
[52:01.630 --> 52:04.170]  If it wasn't so creepy, it would kind of be cool.
[52:04.290 --> 52:07.490]  This is the phone I tried to buy at the Sprint store.
[52:07.750 --> 52:08.870]  So that is a Sprint phone?
[52:09.310 --> 52:10.590]  Well, it's a Qualcomm phone.
[52:10.650 --> 52:10.950]  Oh, okay.
[52:11.310 --> 52:12.410]  But it's on the Sprint network.
[52:12.490 --> 52:13.290]  It's on the Sprint network.
[52:13.450 --> 52:13.950]  You poor soul.
[52:14.370 --> 52:16.930]  It's cheap compared to my other phone, which sucks.
[52:17.050 --> 52:20.850]  This phone is wafer thin and it's cheap and it has much better battery life.
[52:20.950 --> 52:21.230]  How cheap?
[52:21.930 --> 52:23.950]  Well, I'm not going to get prices over the air, but I'll tell you after the show.
[52:24.030 --> 52:24.510]  But it's pretty cheap.
[52:24.630 --> 52:27.250]  It's the Qualcomm 1960, I believe is the model number.
[52:27.250 --> 52:29.730]  However, this is the phone that allows you to browse the web.
[52:30.290 --> 52:31.490]  And I haven't done this yet.
[52:32.170 --> 52:33.490]  I tried to use it yesterday.
[52:33.490 --> 52:39.370]  It didn't work because unlike what the customer representative told me, it doesn't take five minutes for the web thing to activate.
[52:39.490 --> 52:40.370]  It takes 36 hours.
[52:40.510 --> 52:42.750]  So it might work now or it might not.
[52:42.750 --> 52:47.890]  So I'm going to try this live on the air to browse the web on my phone, which I have no idea what that's going to look like.
[52:49.050 --> 52:49.450]  Okay.
[52:49.510 --> 52:51.350]  Airtime fees apply for browser use.
[52:51.510 --> 52:52.410]  I have to click okay.
[52:52.650 --> 52:53.470]  How does that work?
[52:53.590 --> 52:56.310]  I mean, when you hit a website, it takes one second.
[52:56.310 --> 52:57.850]  What are they billing you for?
[52:58.170 --> 52:59.530]  You know, I have to pay by the minute.
[52:59.770 --> 53:02.550]  So is it as long as it's on the screen or something?
[53:02.730 --> 53:02.890]  Okay.
[53:02.970 --> 53:05.450]  You're chewing airwaves that somebody could be making a call on.
[53:05.450 --> 53:05.530]  Here it is.
[53:05.530 --> 53:07.390]  Phone.com RSA data security.
[53:07.650 --> 53:07.990]  Waiting.
[53:08.570 --> 53:08.970]  Sending.
[53:09.510 --> 53:10.670]  Security is not enabled.
[53:11.350 --> 53:11.870]  All right.
[53:12.550 --> 53:13.210]  That's interesting.
[53:13.370 --> 53:15.770]  Well, you do not have a security key.
[53:16.690 --> 53:16.970]  All right.
[53:17.630 --> 53:19.410]  I didn't know I was supposed to have a security key.
[53:19.970 --> 53:21.650]  Enabling security can take several minutes.
[53:21.750 --> 53:22.150]  Proceed.
[53:22.350 --> 53:23.050]  Yes, I will proceed.
[53:24.010 --> 53:25.170]  It's generating something.
[53:25.470 --> 53:26.650]  It says generating right now.
[53:26.790 --> 53:28.270]  Is it actually generating an RSA key?
[53:28.370 --> 53:29.090]  That could be interesting.
[53:29.310 --> 53:29.770]  It just might be.
[53:30.530 --> 53:32.110]  This phone is generating an RSA key.
[53:32.210 --> 53:33.750]  If it is, I give them credit now.
[53:33.910 --> 53:36.010]  Well, it's definitely doing something.
[53:36.210 --> 53:38.290]  And it's a little bar that's moving up very slowly.
[53:39.230 --> 53:40.350]  It's kind of cool.
[53:40.350 --> 53:43.130]  Can you just feel it pulling randomness out of the air?
[53:44.490 --> 53:45.490]  Dale, are you still there?
[53:45.730 --> 53:45.870]  Yeah.
[53:46.190 --> 53:46.390]  Okay.
[53:46.810 --> 53:48.510]  Uh, got the frequency.
[53:48.850 --> 53:49.370]  Got the frequency.
[53:49.630 --> 53:49.970]  Hold on.
[53:50.070 --> 53:51.910]  It's 72060.
[53:53.550 --> 53:54.230]  Hang on.
[53:57.370 --> 53:57.990]  Uh-oh.
[54:01.180 --> 54:02.240]  Is that your ankle?
[54:02.480 --> 54:02.800]  Yeah.
[54:03.040 --> 54:03.260]  Oh.
[54:04.460 --> 54:06.000]  That's, uh, that's quite a sound there.
[54:06.300 --> 54:06.540]  Yeah.
[54:07.880 --> 54:09.020]  It's rather interesting.
[54:10.600 --> 54:13.440]  Now, on these, uh, ankle bracelets, are these commercially available?
[54:13.660 --> 54:15.880]  Or are they in line to be commercially available?
[54:16.180 --> 54:16.480]  Any time?
[54:17.020 --> 54:19.980]  Uh, well, probably to the Department of Corrections and...
[54:20.520 --> 54:21.580]  Well, let's start a prison.
[54:21.660 --> 54:23.260]  We can, uh, probably get away with that.
[54:25.300 --> 54:26.900]  Let's take matters into our own hands.
[54:26.900 --> 54:30.620]  Well, you were saying about the privatization of the, uh, uh, penal system.
[54:30.740 --> 54:31.320]  I'm a member of the public.
[54:31.320 --> 54:33.840]  I think I should have the right to run in prison if I so choose.
[54:34.780 --> 54:36.060]  Are you still generating...
[54:36.060 --> 54:37.980]  This phone is doing some serious stuff here.
[54:38.260 --> 54:39.200]  I've, I've, it...
[54:39.200 --> 54:41.860]  I'm rather impressed if it's actually generating an RSA key.
[54:41.900 --> 54:42.160]  Oh, look.
[54:42.240 --> 54:42.900]  I'll pass it over to you.
[54:43.000 --> 54:43.140]  Okay.
[54:43.140 --> 54:43.700]  Look at yourself.
[54:43.860 --> 54:44.820]  Let's don't mess with the keys.
[54:45.180 --> 54:47.480]  That's almost as cool as the PGP decoder ring.
[54:48.040 --> 54:48.200]  Yeah.
[54:48.560 --> 54:49.700]  Let's take another phone call over here.
[54:50.500 --> 54:51.020]  Good evening.
[54:51.140 --> 54:51.620]  You're on the air.
[54:52.220 --> 54:52.820]  Hey, Emmanuel.
[54:53.180 --> 54:53.360]  Hi.
[54:53.500 --> 54:57.760]  It's Tommy from that, uh, infamous agency out there who ruined the image of hackers.
[54:58.060 --> 55:01.760]  Tommy, that would be from, uh, oh, what was that, uh, what was that, uh, the organization?
[55:01.980 --> 55:03.800]  Oh, it must be, uh, MTV, right?
[55:03.940 --> 55:04.140]  Uh-huh.
[55:04.140 --> 55:04.600]  Yeah, okay.
[55:04.900 --> 55:07.700]  And, unfortunately, they laid me off.
[55:07.880 --> 55:09.680]  So no longer, I don't work for them.
[55:09.740 --> 55:12.820]  You know, I, I, I, I'm not surprised at all they would do that to you.
[55:12.960 --> 55:14.220]  Is it, do you think there's any relation to this?
[55:14.220 --> 55:17.720]  And one of the things I, I read in your little thing, you referred to me as an intern.
[55:18.640 --> 55:20.980]  I'm sorry, what, what, what, what is your proper position?
[55:21.220 --> 55:23.200]  Well, I was a staff member there for three years.
[55:23.300 --> 55:24.000]  Oh, okay, I'm sorry.
[55:24.460 --> 55:26.120]  Well, can you go to the Y2K bash?
[55:26.300 --> 55:29.700]  Yeah, and then I talked to Shamrock about the faking thing that he did.
[55:29.700 --> 55:33.040]  And he said, yeah, they plan to actually carry it further and further.
[55:33.380 --> 55:42.160]  When they were doing it, they were going to actually go to an abandoned airfield and have, like, undercover cop cars zoom in and actually try to arrest them.
[55:42.280 --> 55:44.820]  How do you get undercover cop cars to zoom in and arrest people?
[55:44.920 --> 55:50.940]  Well, you know, he's talking about actually just having regular white caprices, you know, with black walls on them and to zoom in.
[55:50.960 --> 55:54.380]  Well, I kind of wish it had gone that far because then the absurdity of it would have become apparent.
[55:54.380 --> 56:07.060]  The other issue, referring to one of the mails you got about MTV actually having a radio station broadcasting Times Square, MTV actually owns a radio network, so they probably have a license for that.
[56:07.840 --> 56:13.060]  Up on one of the floors, there is a department called MTV Radio.
[56:13.540 --> 56:15.720]  Okay, we're going to take a look up there.
[56:15.720 --> 56:21.520]  Lots of radio stations anyway, so it wouldn't be a problem for them to broadcast out of Times Square.
[56:21.800 --> 56:31.740]  Now, I don't know what kind of power, because if they had a real commercial license that's over 100 watts, obviously, if they're micropowering now, that's a different license.
[56:32.440 --> 56:36.860]  So I wonder if they're actually doing it under their license or actually doing it illegally.
[56:37.120 --> 56:38.680]  Well, we'll have to check into that.
[56:39.000 --> 56:41.760]  We'll take a look up there after the show, and we'll listen in on them.
[56:41.820 --> 56:45.000]  We could just go to the FCC website and do a search.
[56:45.000 --> 56:46.520]  Oh, yeah, someone wants to do that for us.
[56:46.540 --> 56:47.160]  That's less interesting.
[56:47.460 --> 56:49.220]  And this guy, Tommy, used to work for MTV?
[56:49.600 --> 56:49.860]  Mm-hmm.
[56:50.180 --> 56:50.440]  Okay.
[56:51.060 --> 56:54.540]  And you were saying something about White Capri, what was that?
[56:54.780 --> 56:56.800]  Yeah, that was Shamrock's little deal.
[56:56.920 --> 57:10.100]  Shamrock wanted to have a lot of White Capri's to zoom in on an abandoned airfield to kind of emphasize his story of actually, I don't know, maybe being trapped in the Matrix, or I don't know what the heck his point was being.
[57:10.300 --> 57:18.460]  Well, I know a lot of people are bashing Shamrock for what he did and everything, but, I mean, I keep my association with people, and Shamrock happens to be one of my friends.
[57:18.700 --> 57:21.780]  Yeah, and it's a shame, because Shamrock's no longer on Parse anymore.
[57:21.900 --> 57:22.640]  Yeah, I'm aware of that.
[57:22.800 --> 57:32.580]  I was down at Freaknik, and Rins actually came up to me and interviewed me on camera, and then off air he goes, would you want to work for us?
[57:32.620 --> 57:34.400]  Because he recently found out I was laid off.
[57:34.740 --> 57:35.640]  I said, doing what?
[57:35.740 --> 57:37.280]  He goes, being the host of the show.
[57:37.280 --> 57:44.200]  And I was like, no, I don't think I would want to step into the spotlight, because you know what kind of attention you get.
[57:44.300 --> 57:47.720]  You get either good attention or a lot of bad attention.
[57:48.060 --> 57:50.440]  And I don't want to be the product of that environment.
[57:50.660 --> 57:56.240]  No matter who you are or how you act, I mean, there's always going to be people that are there to ridicule you.
[57:56.380 --> 57:58.440]  I mean, here you have Emmanuel.
[57:58.640 --> 58:01.760]  I mean, there's people that dislike him for whatever reason they have.
[58:01.760 --> 58:02.240]  Oh, plenty, yeah.
[58:02.800 --> 58:03.100]  Yeah.
[58:03.460 --> 58:05.640]  The Emmanuel bashing was going on for a little while.
[58:05.640 --> 58:06.400]  That was pretty funny.
[58:06.400 --> 58:06.800]  Yeah.
[58:07.400 --> 58:09.420]  Well, sometimes it's fun.
[58:09.640 --> 58:12.320]  Yeah, I'm going to get a bumper sticker after that, too, now.
[58:12.540 --> 58:14.000]  You know, stop Emmanuel bashing.
[58:14.180 --> 58:16.020]  Maybe start a whole different fund on that.
[58:16.820 --> 58:19.860]  So, take you out of that political prison that you're in.
[58:20.100 --> 58:20.380]  Yeah.
[58:21.220 --> 58:22.280]  All right, you guys.
[58:22.480 --> 58:23.760]  All right, thanks for calling.
[58:23.920 --> 58:26.800]  My phone has just come online.
[58:26.800 --> 58:29.180]  I'm going to try to do this before the show ends.
[58:30.440 --> 58:31.700]  The encryption is over.
[58:32.240 --> 58:34.100]  I'm going to try to go to the 2600 site.
[58:34.100 --> 58:37.380]  I have no idea what's going to happen when I try to connect my phone to the 2600 site.
[58:37.520 --> 58:39.040]  This ought to be interesting.
[58:40.540 --> 58:42.280]  Okay, we lost the caller there.
[58:43.280 --> 58:44.540]  Let's take one more phone call.
[58:44.740 --> 58:45.060]  Good evening.
[58:45.160 --> 58:45.580]  You're on the air.
[58:46.520 --> 58:46.960]  Hello?
[58:47.280 --> 58:47.740]  Yes, go ahead.
[58:48.120 --> 59:06.040]  Just in case that person who called them by the mic strip is still there, I'm just wondering, I mean, if he's going to call back next week, I'm just wondering if they put it in your hand with a needle and it's under your skin, and then after a certain period of time they take it out,
[59:06.260 --> 59:07.680]  how would they take it out?
[59:09.780 --> 59:12.900]  Wouldn't that involve cutting open your palm of the hand or whatever?
[59:12.900 --> 59:15.780]  Oh, yeah, you cut a little slit, you go in there with some tweezers and pull the thing out.
[59:15.920 --> 59:17.820]  Yeah, they'll just make a small incision, I guess.
[59:17.920 --> 59:20.820]  I mean, I wouldn't know, but that's common sense.
[59:21.120 --> 59:21.320]  Yeah.
[59:21.900 --> 59:31.340]  And then also, in order to do that, wouldn't there be a standard, say this thing becomes widespread, wouldn't there be a standard procedure for placing the microchip?
[59:31.340 --> 59:31.900]  Oh, certainly.
[59:32.120 --> 59:34.960]  But this is, again, just a medical study.
[59:35.140 --> 59:38.640]  I mean, they're experimenting with it, which is frightening enough.
[59:39.540 --> 59:42.140]  It's probably a medical study with a DARPA contract behind it.
[59:42.420 --> 59:44.260]  Ooh, you know, I'd like to investigate that.
[59:44.320 --> 59:45.220]  You think we should...
[59:45.220 --> 59:48.280]  Well, you know, DARPA sponsored the research that was done on implanting chips in animals.
[59:48.400 --> 59:49.500]  Guys, we are out of time, unfortunately.
[59:49.500 --> 59:53.720]  We can continue this discussion next week, though, and my phone's still trying to connect to the 2600 site.
[59:55.320 --> 59:55.840]  Yes, guys?
[59:57.620 --> 59:57.940]  What?
[59:58.100 --> 59:58.380]  You...
[59:58.380 --> 59:59.000]  You're going away.
[59:59.220 --> 59:59.660]  You're going away.
[59:59.760 --> 01:00:00.720]  Okay, well, we're going away, too.
[01:00:00.780 --> 01:00:01.320]  We're all going away.
[01:00:01.900 --> 01:00:02.960]  Thanks for stopping by.
[01:00:03.100 --> 01:00:04.060]  Thanks, Zale, for being with us.
[01:00:04.180 --> 01:00:05.060]  Keep that ankle bracelet.
[01:00:05.340 --> 01:00:06.480]  Web service problem.
[01:00:07.440 --> 01:00:07.800]  Wow.
[01:00:07.900 --> 01:00:09.200]  Please contact the service provider.
[01:00:09.300 --> 01:00:10.880]  Well, that would be us, so I guess we have to deal with this.
[01:00:11.500 --> 01:00:12.120]  We're out of here.
[01:00:12.140 --> 01:00:15.280]  We'll be back again next week with another fun-filled edition of Off the Hook.
[01:00:15.380 --> 01:00:16.740]  Until then, Emmanuel Goldstein, have a good night.
[01:00:23.780 --> 01:00:27.820]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:00:29.000 --> 01:00:33.320]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
[01:01:23.860 --> 01:01:25.960]  I have a lot of bills to pay.
[01:01:26.100 --> 01:01:26.840]  Pay this one.
[01:01:27.220 --> 01:01:28.520]  W-B-A-I?
[01:01:28.620 --> 01:01:29.020]  Yes.
[01:01:29.020 --> 01:01:31.520]  I have a telephone bill here for $111.
[01:01:31.940 --> 01:01:33.760]  Well, calls to Indonesia are expensive.
[01:01:33.940 --> 01:01:34.300]  I know.
[01:01:34.500 --> 01:01:35.500]  But your membership in...
[01:01:35.500 --> 01:01:35.540]  Look at my checklist.
[01:01:35.540 --> 01:01:35.900]  Look at apologise...
[01:01:35.900 --> 01:01:36.460]  Well, as part someone says,的时候, I am gaining that much more than anything... that we