[00:01.340 --> 00:10.400]  On Wednesday, December 9th, we will make ourselves seen and heard at the third annual Holiday Season of Conscience, Candlelight March to End Child Labor and Sweatshops.
[00:10.580 --> 00:11.840]  It starts at 5 p.m.
[00:11.860 --> 00:16.020]  at Nike Town on 57th Street between 5th and Madison Avenues.
[00:16.160 --> 00:18.580]  Then we'll march down 5th Avenue to the tree.
[00:18.840 --> 00:26.120]  I'll be there along with thousands of kids, unionists, religious, and solidarity activists and WBAI listeners.
[00:26.560 --> 00:27.880]  Please join us.
[00:27.880 --> 00:32.500]  For more information, call 212-242-3002.
[00:32.700 --> 00:36.300]  That's 212-242-3002.
[00:36.460 --> 00:43.000]  This has been a public service announcement by WBAI for the National Labor Committee and People of Faith Network.
[00:49.600 --> 00:51.320]  And good evening, everybody.
[00:51.320 --> 00:53.440]  It's 8 o'clock on a Tuesday night.
[00:54.360 --> 00:56.080]  Time for Off the Hook.
[01:08.210 --> 01:10.290]  I cut myself while shaving.
[01:10.690 --> 01:12.890]  Now I can't make a cough.
[01:13.570 --> 01:15.610]  It couldn't get much worse.
[01:16.250 --> 01:18.190]  But if they could, they would.
[01:18.470 --> 01:21.110]  Bum-Digley-Bom for the best, expect the worst.
[01:21.810 --> 01:23.610]  I hope that's understood.
[01:23.850 --> 01:24.690]  Bum-Digley-Bom!
[03:02.330 --> 03:03.850]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[03:04.050 --> 03:05.650]  This is Off the Hook.
[03:06.330 --> 03:08.990]  Emanuel Goldstein here with you on this Tuesday night.
[03:09.630 --> 03:10.370]  Good evening, Isaac.
[03:10.710 --> 03:11.490]  How are you doing, sir?
[03:11.910 --> 03:15.990]  I'm not doing well because some joker's ringing that phone over on the other side.
[03:16.330 --> 03:17.390]  You know, it might be Amy, actually.
[03:17.470 --> 03:18.330]  So why don't you talk for a second?
[03:18.470 --> 03:20.330]  Oh, I'll definitely talk for a second.
[03:20.430 --> 03:21.770]  I would have liked to have had a topic.
[03:23.410 --> 03:25.890]  Shall I just introduce our other guest here?
[03:26.030 --> 03:26.750]  How are you doing, sir?
[03:27.050 --> 03:27.670]  All right, Isaac.
[03:27.730 --> 03:28.090]  How's it going?
[03:28.350 --> 03:29.270]  Oh, just fine.
[03:29.270 --> 03:35.910]  We actually have Amy on the phone, and it would seem that she's updating us on the fine events in Seattle.
[03:36.270 --> 03:37.310]  What's new?
[03:37.490 --> 03:38.630]  Okay, yeah, it was Amy.
[03:38.870 --> 03:40.470]  Amy is out there in Seattle.
[03:41.150 --> 03:43.170]  Apparently, it's really hitting the fan out there.
[03:43.750 --> 03:45.690]  We're going to go to her live, actually.
[03:45.870 --> 03:47.330]  I'm going to make a phone call, though.
[03:47.650 --> 03:50.170]  So let's get ourselves a phone line.
[03:51.210 --> 03:51.890]  Telephone line?
[03:52.250 --> 03:52.730]  Okay, great.
[03:53.370 --> 03:55.430]  We just have to dial a special number here.
[03:57.270 --> 04:03.970]  In case some of you are living in caves, there is civil unrest going on in the American city of Seattle.
[04:04.210 --> 04:04.670]  Thank God.
[04:04.790 --> 04:06.050]  It took long enough for people to wake up.
[04:06.650 --> 04:08.230]  The World Trade Organization.
[04:08.690 --> 04:08.950]  Yeah.
[04:09.290 --> 04:10.750]  Maybe it'll be some inspiration to us.
[04:10.850 --> 04:12.070]  Let's see if we can find Amy on the phone.
[04:16.130 --> 04:17.330]  Hopefully, phones are working.
[04:32.400 --> 04:33.380]  Not a good sign.
[04:33.710 --> 04:33.880]  No.
[04:34.090 --> 04:35.590]  Especially since she was just on the phone.
[04:37.040 --> 04:38.350]  That sounds like it's going to voicemail.
[04:38.350 --> 04:39.020]  Yes, it does.
[04:43.200 --> 04:45.840]  Maybe she left some kind of cryptic message in her voicemail.
[04:46.200 --> 04:47.320]  Welcome to Ballotmonic Mobile.
[04:47.520 --> 04:49.340]  We cannot complete your call at this time.
[04:49.560 --> 04:51.340]  Please check the number and dial again.
[04:51.500 --> 04:52.860]  5-7-22.
[04:53.240 --> 04:53.980]  Announcement 2.
[04:54.340 --> 04:54.820]  Okay.
[04:55.040 --> 04:56.400]  I hope I have the right number.
[04:56.520 --> 04:59.980]  That would be very bad if I somehow got the wrong number, but I'm going to try it again.
[05:00.500 --> 05:07.400]  Sometimes this phone system doesn't exactly translate the numbers as you dial them, unfortunately.
[05:08.060 --> 05:11.720]  That's just the nature of technology in the 1990s, especially WBAI.
[05:12.500 --> 05:14.480]  Well, there's not much 1990s left.
[05:14.760 --> 05:15.660]  No, definitely not.
[05:15.780 --> 05:16.060]  There we did.
[05:16.380 --> 05:16.680]  All right.
[05:17.020 --> 05:17.420]  Let's...
[05:18.460 --> 05:20.380]  The other phone's ringing again, so...
[05:27.210 --> 05:27.610]  Hello?
[05:30.210 --> 05:32.370]  Hi, this is Amy Goodman of Democracy Now.
[05:32.590 --> 05:33.590]  If you're trying to reach out...
[05:33.590 --> 05:37.010]  Okay, sounds like you're on tape, Amy, so what we're going to do is answer that other phone.
[05:37.430 --> 05:38.370]  I'm just going to talk some more.
[05:38.510 --> 05:38.970]  I'm going to talk some more.
[05:38.970 --> 05:40.090]  And maybe Sarah will join you.
[05:40.270 --> 05:44.410]  Yes, well, he did a little earlier, but we didn't get to say much.
[05:44.630 --> 05:45.190]  I tried.
[05:45.510 --> 05:46.610]  Well, we do try.
[05:46.610 --> 06:00.310]  It's kind of hectic around here with people calling in with live reports from the other side of this fine continent, and, well, Manuel is getting his last instructions.
[06:02.310 --> 06:03.150]  Here we go.
[06:03.310 --> 06:03.910]  What's the news?
[06:04.630 --> 06:05.810]  She's going to call us.
[06:05.930 --> 06:07.930]  She's going to call us, and we'll just answer the phone.
[06:08.050 --> 06:08.250]  Yes.
[06:09.090 --> 06:10.530]  On a special secret line.
[06:11.230 --> 06:15.530]  Well, don't forget, we have other callers that tend to be irritating, so you've got to make sure.
[06:15.590 --> 06:17.330]  Well, yeah, but they don't know these numbers, unfortunately.
[06:18.070 --> 06:19.590]  Or fortunately, as the case may be.
[06:21.190 --> 06:24.030]  All right, so why don't you continue with your...
[06:24.690 --> 06:28.510]  We didn't do much, but you have something in your hands there, sir.
[06:28.670 --> 06:30.030]  I do have something in my hands.
[06:30.530 --> 06:36.610]  There's all kinds of strange stuff showing up in the news about the National Security Agency.
[06:36.770 --> 06:37.330]  Oh, the NSA?
[06:37.610 --> 06:40.530]  Yeah, the good old NSA, and you usually don't hear much from them.
[06:40.830 --> 06:44.270]  They seem to make a policy of not issuing press releases, and...
[06:44.270 --> 06:56.370]  And even in their own employee manual, they generally say that if somebody comes up to you and says, oh, is this true, or is that true, you should enforce the policy of total silence and plausible denial.
[06:56.370 --> 07:01.710]  We're going to have to enforce total silence right now, because we have Amy on the phone, and we're going to go through her live in Seattle.
[07:01.870 --> 07:02.390]  Amy, it's Emanuel.
[07:02.550 --> 07:03.150]  You're live on the air.
[07:03.630 --> 07:04.270]  What's going on out there?
[07:04.270 --> 07:05.230]  Hi, this is Amy Goodman.
[07:05.350 --> 07:08.550]  I'm reporting live from the streets of Seattle, where the police have moved in.
[07:08.550 --> 07:12.690]  And they've pushed out all the protesters just down the street.
[07:13.110 --> 07:13.810]  This is...
[07:13.810 --> 07:16.990]  As you can hear in the background, this is tear gas going off.
[07:17.090 --> 07:19.430]  There's also been a lot of rubber bullets.
[07:19.710 --> 07:20.110]  It's...
[07:20.110 --> 07:21.910]  I'm now just down the street.
[07:22.110 --> 07:25.510]  The police moved in as some fights had broken out.
[07:25.670 --> 07:34.130]  The vast majority of protesters who are here protesting the World Trade Organization are absolutely peaceful, trying to prevent any kind of looting.
[07:35.130 --> 07:36.710]  But all at once...
[07:36.710 --> 07:40.430]  This was just after the mayor had announced there would be a curfew at 7 o'clock.
[07:40.710 --> 07:42.930]  The police started to move down the street.
[07:42.930 --> 07:47.050]  En masse, as you can hear, they are hauling tear gas.
[07:47.250 --> 07:50.370]  I'm going to run across the street to Nike Town.
[07:50.710 --> 07:52.450]  Nike Town, FAO Schwartz.
[07:52.570 --> 07:54.650]  This is the corner that I'm on, Planet Hollywood.
[07:54.970 --> 07:56.590]  A large site of the demonstrations.
[07:56.590 --> 07:59.870]  People had chained themselves to a large obstacle in the street.
[08:00.810 --> 08:01.290]  Yes?
[08:02.950 --> 08:06.610]  People had chained themselves to a large obstacle in the street.
[08:06.610 --> 08:09.550]  I'm going to go over and see if any of them are still there.
[08:10.650 --> 08:15.250]  The police, without notice, had moved in.
[08:15.330 --> 08:17.610]  They're now looking at a backpack and an object.
[08:17.610 --> 08:21.350]  But the police have cleared out this whole area, are tear gassing everyone.
[08:21.350 --> 08:27.270]  It's right outside the Sheraton and the convention center where the WTO was supposed to hold its meetings today.
[08:27.270 --> 08:32.210]  It's unclear if they were able to conduct any kind of business in the World Trade Organization.
[08:32.470 --> 08:34.710]  Amy, how many people are there right now on the street?
[08:34.930 --> 08:36.150]  Thousands and thousands of people.
[08:36.810 --> 08:39.730]  Again, I'm just in a completely closed-off area.
[08:39.730 --> 08:52.850]  One of the few people behind this police line, because I'm press, it just smoke as I look down the street, because the police are pushing people down the street right now.
[08:52.930 --> 08:56.310]  And I'm running down to see what's happening.
[08:56.310 --> 09:01.330]  But every time I try to go past, a policeman pushes me back.
[09:02.150 --> 09:04.230]  But I'm running down the street, as you can hear.
[09:04.430 --> 09:07.270]  They've been trying to negotiate with the police throughout the day.
[09:07.630 --> 09:10.690]  They were even negotiating to say they would leave peacefully.
[09:12.550 --> 09:15.770]  And they would come back tomorrow to stop the World Trade Organization.
[09:17.090 --> 09:26.010]  There were some rowdy younger people who the protesters were trying to control.
[09:28.230 --> 09:33.210]  And using that as a pretext, they just moved in and cleared everyone out.
[09:33.370 --> 09:39.310]  I'm now just moving down two blocks where the site of the police, they have pushed the crowd back at this point.
[09:39.530 --> 09:46.510]  One of the things that's happened throughout the day is that the police have denied that they use rubber bullets.
[09:46.510 --> 09:55.770]  But I've been talking with police officers who say, yes, in fact, police bullets, rubber bullets are being used.
[09:55.910 --> 09:57.690]  And they are coming out of one.
[09:59.850 --> 10:01.930]  How close are you to those...
[10:01.930 --> 10:02.410]  I'm right here.
[10:03.030 --> 10:04.050]  I'm right on the corner.
[10:04.330 --> 10:04.890]  What are they?
[10:04.990 --> 10:05.950]  They're firing tear gas.
[10:06.090 --> 10:07.130]  That's the noise at the tear gas.
[10:07.230 --> 10:08.690]  They're firing tear gas and...
[10:12.970 --> 10:15.810]  Amy, get yourself away from there if you have...
[10:16.510 --> 10:18.270]  It sounds like you're way too close.
[10:18.630 --> 10:19.110]  Just one sec.
[10:19.830 --> 10:23.190]  I'm next to an armored vehicle.
[10:33.970 --> 10:35.950]  Armored vehicles are now...
[10:36.590 --> 10:38.030]  Sorry, it's just the tear gas.
[10:38.910 --> 10:40.510]  Are now moving down the street.
[10:41.730 --> 10:43.650]  Okay, okay, okay.
[10:44.790 --> 10:46.010]  I'm pressed, I'm pressed.
[10:46.210 --> 10:46.630]  I don't care.
[10:46.830 --> 10:47.550]  You're moving back?
[10:47.830 --> 10:49.250]  Oh, the breasts are moving forward.
[10:49.590 --> 10:50.490]  Nope, you're moving back.
[10:52.090 --> 10:54.970]  A policewoman is now just pushing me back with her baton.
[10:57.070 --> 10:58.450]  The police are moving in.
[10:58.590 --> 11:01.950]  There are two armored vehicles.
[11:02.670 --> 11:05.990]  We're now moving past Rite Aid Pharmacy.
[11:06.290 --> 11:07.050]  Move back.
[11:08.290 --> 11:10.850]  As you can hear, the police officer is saying, move back.
[11:12.370 --> 11:13.690]  Let me just catch my breath.
[11:14.010 --> 11:16.110]  Amy, what is the general mood over there?
[11:16.210 --> 11:17.350]  I'm standing along the line.
[11:20.910 --> 11:22.230]  All the breasts are right there.
[11:22.230 --> 11:24.150]  Why are you selecting me out?
[11:24.250 --> 11:24.970]  You have to move me down.
[11:25.690 --> 11:26.410]  This isn't fair.
[11:26.450 --> 11:27.550]  Let me go up to where the press is.
[11:27.610 --> 11:28.590]  I have to do my job.
[11:30.450 --> 11:30.970]  Thank you.
[11:31.290 --> 11:32.510]  The press is all there.
[11:32.650 --> 11:33.590]  Please let me go there.
[11:34.590 --> 11:36.770]  Do you have a press pass that's visible?
[11:37.010 --> 11:37.330]  Yes, yes, yes.
[11:37.430 --> 11:38.150]  I have a press pass.
[11:38.270 --> 11:38.990]  Okay, here we go.
[11:39.070 --> 11:41.350]  What is the general mood there amongst the protesters?
[11:41.590 --> 11:43.810]  Is it one of panic or manipulation?
[11:43.810 --> 11:46.230]  Well, at this moment, yes, at this moment.
[11:46.230 --> 11:50.610]  But I think there's a tremendous feeling of empowerment on this day.
[11:50.910 --> 11:53.210]  Because Seattle was closed down.
[11:53.390 --> 11:56.150]  I mean, the Battle of Seattle has definitely taken place.
[11:56.190 --> 12:00.270]  The world has seen these thousands of protesters.
[12:00.550 --> 12:02.670]  There were more than 20,000.
[12:04.670 --> 12:12.730]  There were more than 20,000 in the stadium today in a big AFL-CIO protest.
[12:12.950 --> 12:14.590]  And they marched to join the protest.
[12:18.490 --> 12:20.690]  Amy, I've heard reports that...
[12:20.690 --> 12:22.050]  Can you hear me, Amy?
[12:22.630 --> 12:23.230]  Yeah.
[12:23.730 --> 12:27.770]  I've heard reports that at least one person was run over by a police vehicle.
[12:27.770 --> 12:28.350]  Is this true?
[12:38.390 --> 12:39.430]  Is anyone...
[12:39.430 --> 12:40.150]  Oh, God.
[12:40.770 --> 12:42.190]  It's very hard to work.
[12:42.410 --> 12:42.670]  Just one second.
[12:43.250 --> 12:45.350]  There's definitely adverse working conditions.
[12:46.370 --> 12:47.370]  Never let it be said.
[12:47.370 --> 12:49.250]  VAI reporters don't put themselves in the...
[12:49.250 --> 12:51.010]  Is anyone run over by a police vehicle?
[12:54.150 --> 12:59.170]  This kind of gas just burns all the way down your throat.
[12:59.170 --> 13:03.850]  And it's very hard to keep my eyes open.
[13:03.970 --> 13:05.470]  I believe it's pepper spray they're using.
[13:05.670 --> 13:06.350]  Is that correct?
[13:07.210 --> 13:16.510]  And it is being said that the gas they're using right now is a lot more powerful than it was earlier.
[13:16.510 --> 13:21.030]  Earlier this morning, it's a very bad situation.
[13:21.150 --> 13:24.790]  In one area, there were peaceful protests about 10 o'clock.
[13:25.450 --> 13:27.390]  It's very hard to keep up here.
[13:28.130 --> 13:33.930]  There were, at 10 o'clock, peaceful protesters who were going to prevent the WTO from...
[13:34.510 --> 13:35.650]  Delegates from getting there.
[13:37.650 --> 13:38.570]  We're sitting.
[13:38.890 --> 13:41.510]  They would continually chant, we are nonviolent.
[13:42.310 --> 13:47.890]  And the police shot them at point-blank range with these rubber bullets.
[13:47.890 --> 13:49.690]  I have many of them in my pocket now.
[13:49.870 --> 13:51.670]  Small, like little berries.
[13:52.190 --> 13:53.430]  And larger ones.
[13:53.950 --> 13:57.970]  And one man, the bullet went right through his...
[13:59.190 --> 14:00.850]  Under his lower lip.
[14:01.270 --> 14:02.690]  Let's see how close I can...
[14:02.690 --> 14:02.790]  Oh, my God.
[14:03.230 --> 14:03.490]  Yeah.
[14:04.750 --> 14:07.130]  And then they pepper sprayed them right in the face.
[14:07.130 --> 14:12.410]  And I got continual eyewitness, or continual first-hand testimony...
[14:17.230 --> 14:18.690]  Testimony to that effect.
[14:19.890 --> 14:21.010]  Just one second.
[14:22.190 --> 14:22.810]  Oh, God.
[14:24.730 --> 14:25.370]  Then...
[14:28.270 --> 14:30.950]  Some person came with a gun.
[14:31.170 --> 14:34.150]  Some said it was a delegate who wanted to get through.
[14:34.150 --> 14:40.070]  And as the protesters tried to put his arm up, they maced the protesters.
[14:40.270 --> 14:42.470]  This happened just about an hour ago.
[14:43.070 --> 14:44.690]  You're saying a delegate had a gun?
[14:44.970 --> 14:46.990]  Well, it's not clear that he was a delegate.
[14:47.150 --> 14:48.070]  They said that he was.
[14:48.170 --> 14:49.210]  The protesters said he was.
[14:49.230 --> 14:52.070]  I didn't personally see him, so I can't vouch for that.
[14:53.150 --> 14:54.650]  And I'm now standing here.
[14:54.970 --> 14:56.810]  There are only police around me.
[14:56.890 --> 14:59.550]  And they are all, as you can imagine, wearing tear gas.
[15:01.150 --> 15:02.650]  Helmets and riot gear.
[15:04.690 --> 15:06.530]  The protesters right now...
[15:06.530 --> 15:07.330]  And holding tons.
[15:07.630 --> 15:10.550]  The protesters right now, what is it that they are trying to do?
[15:11.530 --> 15:13.830]  The protesters are now...
[15:13.830 --> 15:20.630]  Well, these police, where I am right now, have riot shields, and they have sealed off this area.
[15:22.610 --> 15:23.570]  Let me see.
[15:25.110 --> 15:29.630]  Is there much in the way of damage, or any kind of violence breaking out?
[15:31.970 --> 15:32.850]  Just a second.
[15:32.990 --> 15:34.570]  Someone just threw something from the building.
[15:34.850 --> 15:35.670]  Okay, just one second.
[15:43.970 --> 15:53.570]  There is some damage, but I don't know what the mainstream papers are reporting, or the mainstream media is reporting, in terms of looting.
[15:53.670 --> 15:55.950]  And if they're saying that this is just violent.
[15:56.190 --> 16:04.250]  But it is very clear, and the police absolutely understand this, that this is a non-violent protest.
[16:04.250 --> 16:07.190]  There are some who have broken glass.
[16:07.190 --> 16:14.450]  There was the story earlier of a Starbucks, the glass being broken, and someone opening the door and saying, this place is now open for business.
[16:14.630 --> 16:21.150]  But the protesters said that's not the case, and they locked arms, and they prevented anyone from going through.
[16:21.630 --> 16:29.190]  That's the kind of protest this is, despite the fact that they're protesting the benefits that these multinational corporations get.
[16:29.650 --> 16:35.350]  You know, this is the largest export city in the country, with Microsoft, with Starbucks, with Boeing.
[16:35.890 --> 16:38.090]  Boeing, the head of Boeing is...
[16:38.090 --> 16:38.690]  All right, here we go.
[16:38.710 --> 16:39.210]  Just a second.
[16:39.370 --> 16:41.930]  Moving into a serious area here.
[16:45.070 --> 16:46.190]  There's Errol Maitland.
[16:49.130 --> 16:49.690]  Just...
[16:51.710 --> 16:53.210]  You hear Errol speaking.
[16:53.930 --> 16:55.850]  He's asking what time is the curfew.
[16:55.850 --> 16:57.990]  We're moving now up to the independent...
[17:01.350 --> 17:02.710]  ...independent media center.
[17:03.750 --> 17:06.130]  What time is the curfew?
[17:07.970 --> 17:12.270]  And Errol is asking what time is the curfew.
[17:14.390 --> 17:23.110]  The police have cleared everyone out, just forcing people down the street with their armed vehicles, with total force.
[17:23.290 --> 17:30.330]  I mean, it's interesting that the police chief is denying that rubber bullets were used when rubber bullets are all over the streets.
[17:30.430 --> 17:36.390]  In fact, I just talked to one of the sergeants in charge, and I asked him, what is in that gun?
[17:36.430 --> 17:42.890]  And he said, well, I can't tell you if it's chemicals or if it's rubber bullets.
[17:43.010 --> 17:44.610]  And then I said, well, will you ask?
[17:44.630 --> 17:48.270]  And he came back and he said, it's both, that they can shoot out at the same time.
[17:48.410 --> 17:55.050]  And that's certainly what protesters have felt throughout the city, is the use of rubber bullets, as well as the tear gas.
[17:55.270 --> 17:58.310]  I just wasn't clear that they were coming out together from these guns.
[17:58.590 --> 18:03.790]  They also use kind of a smoke bomb type tear gas that they throw at protesters.
[18:06.030 --> 18:10.690]  Again, they have either the shields they hold in their hands or the shields that they have over their helmets.
[18:11.850 --> 18:14.670]  Have very many of the protesters been injured, taken to hospitals?
[18:16.030 --> 18:18.110]  It's hard to say right now.
[18:18.290 --> 18:22.390]  I see one person.
[18:23.430 --> 18:24.890]  I see one person.
[18:25.350 --> 18:27.750]  A number of people are sitting in the street right now.
[18:27.950 --> 18:29.470]  Nothing like the number before.
[18:29.710 --> 18:35.890]  But the tear gas has made it very difficult for people to just remain.
[18:37.050 --> 18:43.270]  Amy, what is planned for tomorrow when President Clinton is going to attempt to address the conference?
[18:43.270 --> 18:52.210]  Well, if you can tell me if President Clinton is going to attend, it would be, you know, he saw the protests in Greece.
[18:52.410 --> 18:54.190]  He cut his trip short because of them.
[18:54.550 --> 18:58.210]  Greece doesn't compare to what we're looking at right now on the streets of Seattle.
[18:58.650 --> 19:00.010]  This is his own country.
[19:00.150 --> 19:01.390]  These are his own policies.
[19:01.970 --> 19:10.150]  As he talks about trying to push the WTO toward labor rights and human rights and environmental rights, the fact is that the U.S.
[19:10.150 --> 19:13.230]  is the most powerful force within the World Trade Organization.
[19:13.630 --> 19:20.770]  And whatever policies they want to promulgate do get pushed through at the World Trade Organization.
[19:21.030 --> 19:39.010]  And the World Trade Organization has very much gone in the other direction when it comes to all of these issues, not including labor or human rights in their policies, but instead forcing countries to open up their markets to Western products.
[19:39.170 --> 19:49.830]  And when they don't, when they sanction them, like France did against hormone-injected beef, the United States takes their grievances to the WTO, which overwhelmingly rules in its favor.
[19:49.830 --> 19:51.210]  And then the U.S.
[19:51.870 --> 20:00.210]  sanctions countries like France and their products that they want to export into the United States because the French will not accept hormone-injected beef.
[20:00.370 --> 20:02.530]  That is the story of the World Trade Organization.
[20:02.790 --> 20:14.650]  I heard a report earlier where someone from France was actually giving cheese out to people, saying that you're not allowed to have this because of the sanctions, because we won't accept hormone-injected beef from the United States.
[20:14.650 --> 20:14.770]  Right.
[20:14.910 --> 20:22.730]  In fact, he took a hammer to a McDonald's that was being built in France, and he has become a national hero.
[20:22.950 --> 20:23.850]  His name is José Beauvais.
[20:24.010 --> 20:25.230]  We have him on Democracy Now!
[20:25.350 --> 20:25.550]  today.
[20:26.890 --> 20:32.630]  And he is a French farmer who lives in the area where Roquefort cheese is made, the only place in the world.
[20:33.310 --> 20:38.930]  He is a farmer who raises the animals that produce that cheese.
[20:41.190 --> 20:54.410]  And he says that the area gets wiped out when the Roquefort cheese can't come into this country or is tariffed at rates of 100%, picking up the prices to $30 and $60 in this country so that people can't afford it.
[20:54.490 --> 20:55.470]  That's the way it works.
[20:55.550 --> 20:56.070]  The U.S.
[20:56.090 --> 21:01.570]  imposes sanctions if they say they won't accept hormone-injected beef.
[21:01.570 --> 21:12.990]  You know, there's a much more advanced policy in Europe around biotechnology, bioengineered foods, not so much the government, but the people have a much greater awareness than they do in the United States.
[21:13.250 --> 21:27.930]  I think, though, that these protests of tens of thousands of people in Seattle are going to wake up people in this country and also show that people have woken up in this country because people have come from all over the United States, not to mention the world,
[21:27.930 --> 21:37.970]  to make their views known to this really completely secret, yet extremely powerful organization, the World Trade Organization.
[21:38.210 --> 21:39.010]  Well, one thing...
[21:39.010 --> 21:39.150]  There are now...
[21:39.150 --> 21:49.730]  I just want to say there are a number of people, more and more, who are sitting down right now in the street, and they are drawing the line once again the way they have.
[21:49.730 --> 21:59.690]  But the police moved in so fast with such force all along the way that they were forced out of one part of downtown Seattle just now, the protesters.
[22:00.050 --> 22:03.810]  And the protesters are now chanting, the whole world is watching.
[22:04.830 --> 22:05.470]  All right.
[22:05.550 --> 22:07.010]  And we're listening here on WBAI.
[22:07.090 --> 22:08.910]  Amy Goodman, live from the streets of Seattle.
[22:09.270 --> 22:12.650]  Amy, you've seen many demonstrations from East Timor to New York.
[22:12.770 --> 22:16.210]  How does this rank as far as demonstrations in America?
[22:18.630 --> 22:29.290]  In terms of demonstrations in America, I think this is not only very rare for Seattle, but quite rare for this country in 1999.
[22:29.890 --> 22:36.150]  I mean, certainly Seattle has seen nothing like this protest, I think, in many years, if not at all.
[22:36.870 --> 22:40.230]  There are police from all over Washington here.
[22:41.250 --> 22:50.970]  Supposedly, the governor offered the National Guard, but the mayor says he's rejected this at this point, but a total curfew on the city for 7 o'clock tonight.
[22:51.150 --> 22:55.090]  And that's just about an hour and a half away from now.
[22:55.090 --> 22:58.170]  So I imagine we'll be hearing from you again later as the curfew takes effect.
[22:59.370 --> 23:01.650]  Well, yeah, I will certainly report.
[23:01.890 --> 23:04.550]  At this point, there is a standoff where I'm standing.
[23:04.730 --> 23:08.790]  And I'm standing at a significant place, which is the Independent Media Center.
[23:08.790 --> 23:37.790]  People can go to that site on the web at IndyMedia.org and hear hundreds of media activists from around the country have come together, actually, from around the world and are putting up video and audio and reports directly so it is not mediated by the corporate media because the corporate media has for so long kept out these points of view that they couldn't trust that what was happening here on
[23:37.790 --> 23:40.010]  the streets of Seattle would get out.
[23:40.170 --> 23:41.590]  There's more tear gas right now.
[23:42.210 --> 23:44.710]  And so this media center has been operating.
[23:46.170 --> 23:47.930]  And it's remarkable.
[23:48.310 --> 23:48.830]  Unmediated.
[23:48.830 --> 23:55.190]  People just put in their video, put in their audio, and you can go to that site and you can see all sorts of...
[23:55.190 --> 23:57.230]  And hear and watch and read.
[23:57.550 --> 23:59.550]  People are starting to shout now.
[24:01.730 --> 24:06.490]  And policemen with a gun is coming toward me.
[24:08.430 --> 24:09.430]  Here we go.
[24:09.670 --> 24:10.070]  Uh-oh.
[24:10.410 --> 24:11.010]  Just one second.
[24:14.730 --> 24:16.470]  Well, vans are moving in.
[24:17.070 --> 24:19.490]  The armored vehicles are moving in.
[24:19.570 --> 24:21.230]  More police are moving in right here.
[24:22.550 --> 24:25.470]  And people have come out of the Independent Media Center.
[24:25.710 --> 24:43.870]  What's remarkable about this place, Seattle, and this event, these series of protests that have taken place, that the number of video cameras, the number of cameras, the number of grassroots people who have become reporters, chronicles of what's happening because of lack of trust of the corporate media.
[24:44.490 --> 24:47.370]  And so you're getting it all different ways.
[24:47.650 --> 25:05.830]  The media here, for example, Como4, which is a local channel, the big TV station, says they will not cover any protests that are illegal, that don't have police permits, they won't name organizations, so as not to encourage or anything that, what, discourages commerce in the city.
[25:05.830 --> 25:07.310]  They won't cover it?
[25:07.450 --> 25:09.750]  No, that's what they said, and they won't name organizations.
[25:10.290 --> 25:13.370]  All right, the police, I am in a very unusual vantage point.
[25:13.470 --> 25:15.070]  I am here alone with the police.
[25:15.550 --> 25:18.590]  And the protesters are all, I'm behind the police line.
[25:19.010 --> 25:26.390]  And they're getting their guns of gas together.
[25:26.770 --> 25:29.950]  There are dozens of police officers.
[25:29.950 --> 25:32.970]  The people are half a block away.
[25:32.970 --> 25:37.490]  There are six people who are sitting in front of them, about 20 yards ahead of them.
[25:37.830 --> 25:39.790]  They have their gas masks on.
[25:39.890 --> 25:41.030]  They haven't taken them off.
[25:42.290 --> 25:46.990]  And they've lined up once again, the kind of line we've seen throughout the day.
[25:50.330 --> 25:51.730]  People are moving in.
[25:51.890 --> 25:58.470]  Right now, a protester with a bandana, a black bandana on his face, this is stepping forward.
[25:58.830 --> 26:01.510]  Errol Maitland, who is here with the Democracy Now!
[26:01.610 --> 26:08.130]  team, is standing right in front of the police line, and he is speaking into his tape recorder.
[26:08.830 --> 26:10.870]  Amy, tell us something about the demonstrators.
[26:11.050 --> 26:13.150]  Are they from a wide variety of backgrounds?
[26:13.150 --> 26:15.250]  Are they young people, old people?
[26:17.870 --> 26:19.950]  It is a true cross-section.
[26:20.230 --> 26:25.050]  Many thousands of young people have come from all over.
[26:25.350 --> 26:30.110]  In addition, there are all kinds of people.
[26:30.270 --> 26:33.150]  There are thousands of labor leaders.
[26:33.150 --> 26:37.150]  Leaders, okay, down the street here, I see many people running.
[26:41.800 --> 26:45.940]  There's tear gas that has just been launched about a block away in the other direction.
[26:48.740 --> 26:49.860]  People are shouting.
[26:53.650 --> 26:54.930]  I'll head down there.
[26:55.610 --> 26:59.990]  But the question is what will happen also tomorrow.
[27:00.350 --> 27:04.650]  The World Trade Organization meetings are supposed to go on for a number of days.
[27:04.650 --> 27:06.990]  Of course, President Clinton there, who's supposed to meeting...
[27:06.990 --> 27:07.410]  Whoa!
[27:08.230 --> 27:09.930]  They've just fired into the crowd.
[27:10.670 --> 27:11.730]  They're firing directly...
[27:11.730 --> 27:12.590]  Oh, boy.
[27:12.890 --> 27:14.450]  They're firing directly into the crowd?
[27:14.490 --> 27:15.250]  Oh, it's... yeah.
[27:16.030 --> 27:18.970]  They're firing off the tear gas canisters right now.
[27:19.550 --> 27:21.370]  And as to whether there are rubber...
[27:21.370 --> 27:23.970]  Oh, they're beating people right in front of the center.
[27:24.130 --> 27:24.710]  Just one second.
[27:26.530 --> 27:27.090]  They're...
[27:27.090 --> 27:29.270]  They're moving into the...
[27:30.390 --> 27:33.610]  They're blockading the Independent Media Center right now.
[27:33.770 --> 27:37.890]  They've put a table up in front of it, which means people will not be able to get out.
[27:39.850 --> 27:41.470]  And the police are moving in.
[27:42.110 --> 27:44.810]  Now, why they're blockading the center is unclear.
[27:45.250 --> 27:45.790]  The policewoman...
[27:46.930 --> 27:47.430]  Whoa!
[27:47.710 --> 27:53.250]  ...who is standing in front of me has the plastic handcuffs that she has hanging.
[27:53.630 --> 27:57.850]  There are more than 100 people who are inside the media center right now.
[28:00.410 --> 28:01.930]  The police are moving down.
[28:02.070 --> 28:03.310]  The Humvees are moving down.
[28:03.610 --> 28:04.790]  People are shouting.
[28:06.490 --> 28:06.750]  Whoa!
[28:09.110 --> 28:09.670]  Whoa!
[28:12.930 --> 28:13.450]  Amy?
[28:13.810 --> 28:14.250]  Yeah.
[28:14.530 --> 28:14.750]  Okay.
[28:15.450 --> 28:16.010]  People...
[28:16.010 --> 28:16.390]  Yeah.
[28:16.530 --> 28:17.210]  In just a minute.
[28:17.270 --> 28:18.330]  The tear gas is...
[28:18.330 --> 28:24.730]  I'm moving into the tear gas area, and the only other people here are police, and they're all wearing their gas masks.
[28:29.290 --> 28:30.730]  They're trying...
[28:34.050 --> 28:34.410]  To...
[28:39.140 --> 28:39.860]  To...
[28:43.960 --> 28:44.690]  People...
[28:44.690 --> 28:55.600]  Here say, the protesters, that they are in the streets for people around the world who can't afford to come to Seattle right now.
[28:59.960 --> 29:03.640]  The police are moving in in all directions now.
[29:04.620 --> 29:12.620]  With their riot shields, their batons that are about four feet long, wooden batons.
[29:17.720 --> 29:18.690]  Sorry?
[29:21.320 --> 29:21.880]  Okay.
[29:24.900 --> 29:25.820]  Unless you buy.
[29:26.340 --> 29:28.210]  Yeah, but I can't go into the tear gas.
[29:30.220 --> 29:30.780]  Felicia.
[29:37.020 --> 29:38.690]  Forcing me to move...
[29:39.460 --> 29:40.580]  Into the tear gas.
[29:47.480 --> 29:49.170]  I'm trying to move.
[29:51.040 --> 29:52.640]  I'm trying to move.
[29:57.620 --> 29:59.400]  People are shouting now.
[29:59.960 --> 30:00.900]  Hey, hey.
[30:01.880 --> 30:02.580]  Ho, ho.
[30:03.680 --> 30:04.800]  The WTO.
[30:06.200 --> 30:07.240]  It's got to go.
[30:10.610 --> 30:11.730]  It's hard to believe.
[30:11.730 --> 30:12.770]  This is the...
[30:13.470 --> 30:15.610]  street of an American city.
[30:16.510 --> 30:17.710]  In 1999.
[30:19.730 --> 30:21.670]  As we move into the year 2000.
[30:22.150 --> 30:23.910]  Well, of course, Amy, you were involved in...
[30:23.910 --> 30:26.230]  in covering the East Timor...
[30:28.490 --> 30:30.230]  massacres of the past.
[30:31.310 --> 30:35.330]  Do you see similarities between the mood of the people versus the police?
[30:37.970 --> 30:39.930]  People are very determined here.
[30:41.690 --> 30:41.990]  Ah!
[30:42.650 --> 30:43.110]  Sick.
[30:51.210 --> 30:51.690]  Ugh.
[30:54.010 --> 30:56.830]  Is it clear what the police are trying to do right now?
[30:56.910 --> 30:59.870]  Are they trying to round everybody up and make mass arrests, or...?
[30:59.870 --> 31:01.750]  They're trying to push them out of the city.
[31:02.470 --> 31:07.510]  They're trying to push them out of the downtown area, trying to stop these protests.
[31:09.390 --> 31:17.710]  Again, we're talking about thousands of union members of the AFL-CIO and all of the different unions.
[31:18.270 --> 31:21.050]  Steelworkers and the Teamsters are here in force.
[31:21.690 --> 31:24.010]  Part of the Rapid Response Team.
[31:24.310 --> 31:27.590]  Young people are here from the anti-sweatshop coalition.
[31:28.310 --> 31:28.950]  Whoa!
[31:29.530 --> 31:29.990]  Whoa!
[31:30.630 --> 31:32.030]  Here is the tear gas right here.
[31:32.210 --> 31:32.790]  Just one second.
[31:38.330 --> 31:44.410]  What happens is they're shooting tear gas into this.
[31:49.290 --> 31:50.170]  Crowd.
[31:51.670 --> 31:52.090]  Crowd.
[31:52.090 --> 31:52.110]  Ah!
[31:53.470 --> 31:54.350]  Ah!
[32:05.710 --> 32:06.550]  Ah!
[32:11.910 --> 32:12.590]  Ah!
[32:13.970 --> 32:14.150]  Ah!
[32:14.830 --> 32:19.570]  People are very angry because they have been peaceful.
[32:20.090 --> 32:26.970]  They have been actually, in many cases, working with the police, explaining what they're doing.
[32:27.090 --> 32:28.630]  I can't go right into this here again, sir.
[32:30.450 --> 32:31.210]  Hey, guys!
[32:31.430 --> 32:32.250]  Coming up behind you!
[32:32.350 --> 32:33.130]  I'm a reporter.
[32:33.310 --> 32:33.750]  I'm a reporter.
[32:34.070 --> 32:34.390]  Are you?
[32:34.490 --> 32:34.690]  Yes.
[32:34.950 --> 32:35.350]  Where's your press?
[32:35.490 --> 32:35.990]  Right here.
[32:37.530 --> 32:37.990]  Up there.
[32:38.290 --> 32:38.470]  Yeah.
[32:39.530 --> 32:40.090]  All right.
[32:40.470 --> 32:41.730]  That got me off this time.
[32:44.390 --> 32:46.850]  I imagine sometimes the Pacifica passes them off.
[32:47.530 --> 32:50.110]  With protesters, is that...
[32:50.110 --> 32:51.590]  I had to do that.
[32:52.650 --> 32:52.990]  Come on.
[32:53.010 --> 32:53.690]  Come back this way.
[32:54.070 --> 32:54.270]  Okay.
[32:58.930 --> 33:00.910]  It's hard to keep my eyes open.
[33:01.050 --> 33:02.270]  The police are pushing me back.
[33:03.930 --> 33:04.370]  Okay.
[33:04.650 --> 33:06.570]  You see these guys down here, these reporters?
[33:06.990 --> 33:09.270]  Hook up with those guys and they'll take care of you, okay?
[33:09.490 --> 33:09.910]  Okay.
[33:10.170 --> 33:12.110]  You don't need to be down here in this position.
[33:12.310 --> 33:12.910]  You're going to get hurt.
[33:15.090 --> 33:15.650]  All right.
[33:15.650 --> 33:18.070]  Let me just stand here for a second.
[33:25.850 --> 33:31.230]  Amy, what do you think is going to happen in just over an hour when this curfew takes effect?
[33:31.790 --> 33:34.250]  I don't think these people are going to just comply.
[33:38.910 --> 33:40.550]  Police are coming over to me right now.
[33:40.690 --> 33:41.570]  This is going to be...
[33:41.570 --> 33:44.130]  They're going to push me out of this whole area.
[33:45.890 --> 33:46.830]  I'm just watching.
[33:46.990 --> 33:48.150]  I know, I know, but you're hurt.
[33:48.450 --> 33:49.890]  No, that's okay.
[33:50.030 --> 33:50.650]  It's okay.
[33:50.850 --> 33:52.450]  I am used to the tear gas by now.
[33:52.990 --> 33:53.610]  I'm okay.
[33:53.610 --> 33:54.430]  I won't get hurt.
[33:54.530 --> 33:56.750]  I won't get hurt, but I can't see from here, so...
[33:56.750 --> 33:57.130]  Okay.
[33:57.830 --> 33:58.230]  Thanks.
[33:58.310 --> 33:59.450]  I don't want nobody hurting you.
[34:05.810 --> 34:07.230]  I would stay near that guy.
[34:07.370 --> 34:10.630]  I think he might actually be able to protect you a bit.
[34:10.630 --> 34:13.550]  He has a four-foot wooden baton.
[34:15.070 --> 34:16.730]  He has riot shield.
[34:16.870 --> 34:18.470]  Of course, he is wearing a gas mask.
[34:19.670 --> 34:24.150]  He's a police officer, along with the hundreds that are here right now.
[34:24.370 --> 34:26.370]  Do any of the protesters have gas masks?
[34:26.450 --> 34:27.290]  Were they expecting this?
[34:27.290 --> 34:30.230]  There are a few protesters who have gas masks.
[34:30.430 --> 34:34.870]  I've been quite amazed at how organized they are.
[34:35.710 --> 34:44.790]  There are a lot of people here who've had long-time training in civil disobedience or are first-comers to it, just deeply believe, but are very organized.
[34:45.670 --> 35:01.310]  Like in the 1970s, the anti-nuclear affinity groups that we saw going up to Seabrook, that's what we see here, people consulting on a consensus basis as they sat in front of the police lines everywhere in the city, some chaining themselves to obstructions.
[35:02.150 --> 35:08.730]  And the reason they had put in those obstructions was to prevent the delegates from getting into the World Trade Organization.
[35:08.730 --> 35:16.450]  I do believe they stopped the WTO from having any kind of meaningful discussion today.
[35:16.450 --> 35:17.830]  There's no question about that.
[35:17.950 --> 35:24.090]  What will happen tomorrow is another story, because today was a massive day of protest.
[35:24.290 --> 35:29.430]  By the way, tonight, Ralph Nader and Indian Anti-Globalization Act of Sandana Shiva will be debating.
[35:29.590 --> 35:32.110]  Procter & Gamble and WTO representatives.
[35:33.510 --> 35:35.210]  I would like to get over there.
[35:35.210 --> 35:42.390]  That's a certainly more organized forum than this is, but this is what they are arguing about, and this is the streets, folks.
[35:42.930 --> 35:50.790]  Okay, we have the police lining up too deep, and I know that they are just about to tear gas the people again.
[35:50.790 --> 35:55.210]  As the people are shouting, I'm going to put up the phone to them, the whole world is watching.
[35:55.730 --> 35:58.110]  And some are sitting down in front of the police.
[35:59.370 --> 36:00.990]  The whole world is watching.
[36:14.660 --> 36:17.060]  Can you hear them saying the whole world is watching?
[36:17.060 --> 36:26.100]  Yeah, and it's rather bizarre, because just as you're playing that, we're watching CNN down here, and President Clinton is getting off an airplane, as chance of the whole world is watching can be heard.
[36:28.920 --> 36:32.460]  The other police officer said if I can handle it, I can handle it.
[36:32.560 --> 36:36.360]  But in order to report, I have to be here.
[36:50.220 --> 36:53.960]  How come that guy sounded like one of the stormtroopers from Star Wars?
[36:54.020 --> 36:55.880]  Was he talking through a gas mask or something?
[37:00.440 --> 37:06.660]  Okay, the people are chanting, the whole world is watching, the whole world is watching.
[37:06.820 --> 37:16.740]  One of the things that the protesters wanted to do around the city is prevent any delegate from moving to the convention center, whether by car or by walking.
[37:16.740 --> 37:29.620]  And many times they would have heated discussions with the delegates, absolutely preventing them from crossing the lines of people who would lock their arms, by telling them also why they oppose the WTO.
[37:30.640 --> 37:40.520]  Heated discussions by representatives of the chambers of commerces around the world, because the corporations are so heavily represented, the World Trade Organization.
[37:40.520 --> 37:48.920]  As one sign said, that I repeatedly saw corporate gain, global pain.
[37:49.540 --> 37:56.560]  And you know the way cities vie for large conferences like these of thousands?
[37:56.660 --> 38:02.560]  Well, I don't think anyone is going to be vying for the next WTO ministerial meeting.
[38:02.800 --> 38:11.660]  The question is whether the World Trade Organization will survive, because no matter the slant of the corporate media, the word is getting out.
[38:11.920 --> 38:15.760]  I haven't been able to watch, because I've been in the streets, what the media coverage is.
[38:15.760 --> 38:21.900]  I assume it's pictures of people dressed as genetically mutated cobs of corn.
[38:22.420 --> 38:32.820]  But if there are serious debates and discussions that are going on in the mainstream media, it would be the first time on issues like these, like bioengineered foods, etc.
[38:34.340 --> 38:36.740]  This is something that affects everybody.
[38:36.740 --> 38:38.280]  It's the food we eat.
[38:39.280 --> 38:40.400]  It's democracy.
[38:40.820 --> 38:48.760]  It's cities and town councils being able to decide whether or not they want to support companies like Unical that do business in Burma.
[38:48.960 --> 38:56.940]  You know, under the World Trade Organization, they are WTO illegal, because they are creating obstacles to trade.
[38:57.160 --> 39:01.900]  And this is something that particularly developing countries have found around the world, as the U.S.
[39:01.980 --> 39:05.740]  brings objection to their wanting to protect their own industry.
[39:06.000 --> 39:23.880]  Another thing is, when I registered as a reporter here, I was given a box of the best of Seattle products, like salmon and Starbucks coffee, like certain kinds of Seattle truffle chocolate.
[39:23.880 --> 39:29.140]  And here you have the Seattle host organization showing off what is best about Seattle.
[39:29.360 --> 39:38.060]  And yet, what you have around the world is, in some cases, governments wanting to support local farmers, you know, buying crops from local farmers.
[39:38.060 --> 39:51.280]  And the WTO will then, through the United States government, for example, will go after countries that want to buy locally, because they say you're creating an obstacle to trade.
[39:51.280 --> 39:53.820]  Well, how did the United States actually grow?
[39:54.040 --> 39:55.720]  How did it grow its industries?
[39:55.960 --> 39:56.820]  By protecting them.
[39:57.000 --> 40:02.100]  And this is what, in some cases, countries around the world want to do, or people are demanding of their governments to do.
[40:02.240 --> 40:06.820]  And now, with these more and more powerful international organizations, they're not able to do that.
[40:07.700 --> 40:11.120]  That's what these people are standing and sitting in the streets for.
[40:11.120 --> 40:16.820]  I'm going to try to walk a little closer, which means a group of police officers are certainly going to come over to me.
[40:16.880 --> 40:20.760]  But what I'm looking at right now are people coming closer to the police.
[40:20.760 --> 40:23.080]  They are standing there with video cameras.
[40:23.940 --> 40:26.580]  One police officer is taking one of the signs.
[40:30.440 --> 40:41.560]  He said if I come any closer to him, he's going to assume I just don't want to play.
[40:42.380 --> 40:50.040]  But what he did is he just took a sign back, it says, and it's the sign that people from the AFL-CIO have been carrying by the tens of thousands.
[40:50.640 --> 40:54.700]  WTO, if it doesn't work for working families, it doesn't work.
[40:54.920 --> 40:56.180]  And that's the poster that they're moving.
[40:56.380 --> 40:57.500]  This is the last warning, okay?
[40:57.880 --> 41:00.600]  You need to stay behind the van, okay?
[41:01.380 --> 41:02.040]  Keep going.
[41:02.440 --> 41:05.360]  Behind the van for your safety, okay?
[41:05.620 --> 41:06.240]  I'm safe.
[41:06.600 --> 41:07.780]  Okay, I understand that.
[41:08.080 --> 41:10.980]  But they don't like guys walking up from behind them either, okay?
[41:11.660 --> 41:12.760]  Stay behind the van.
[41:14.580 --> 41:16.800]  Amy, are you clearly marked as a press person?
[41:16.900 --> 41:18.700]  Can they tell from a distance if you're a press person?
[41:18.820 --> 41:25.560]  They can clearly see that I'm a press person, which is probably why they don't want me coming forward, because the closer I come, the more I can hear the police talking to each other.
[41:26.060 --> 41:30.000]  But we're still in downtown Seattle.
[41:30.400 --> 41:34.660]  Again, thousands of people are standing, confronting the police.
[41:34.780 --> 41:36.260]  A number of them are sitting down.
[41:36.840 --> 41:39.020]  The police are deciding what to do.
[41:39.020 --> 41:45.120]  They clearly have been, to say the least, thrown by these protests.
[41:45.300 --> 41:50.820]  These are massive protests, not just to show the city of Seattle, but to show the world.
[41:51.040 --> 41:53.660]  That's why farmers have come from France.
[41:53.840 --> 41:57.960]  That's why unionists have come from India and Pakistan.
[41:58.140 --> 42:01.160]  It's why human rights activists have come from China.
[42:01.160 --> 42:21.960]  It's why we've seen scientists and doctors come to talk about how public health has been impaired by the World Trade Organization, ensuring that Western pharmaceutical companies will be protected with their high prices, while countries, particularly, for example,
[42:22.040 --> 42:30.300]  in Africa, are forced to buy these pharmaceutical products, and the people who need them most cannot afford them.
[42:30.300 --> 42:33.360]  This is what people all over the city have been talking about.
[42:33.460 --> 42:41.400]  This is particularly true in the case of AIDS, where I think it's something like countries can produce drugs for 5% of what's being charged then by U.S.
[42:41.480 --> 42:42.280]  pharmaceutical companies.
[42:42.300 --> 42:42.660]  Is that correct?
[42:43.020 --> 42:43.600]  That's right.
[42:43.760 --> 42:50.120]  I mean, you know, it's unbelievable, Eric, just the grassroots mobilization around that issue alone.
[42:50.380 --> 43:10.840]  I mean, Gore was forced to back down the vice president because he was running for president, and everywhere he went in this country, there were AIDS activists there saying that he was killing people in South Africa because he was pushing South Africa not to allow their own pharmaceutical companies to develop drugs,
[43:10.860 --> 43:13.720]  but to buy expensive drugs from the United States.
[43:13.900 --> 43:20.640]  And because everywhere he went, there were signs that would go up that say, Gore, Greed, Kills, and he's obviously trying to get good PR.
[43:20.640 --> 43:23.120]  He was forced to negotiate with AIDS activists.
[43:23.120 --> 43:34.460]  This is a kind of activism from the bottom that has been percolating up that even the mainstream has had to deal with, and especially in this election year, they've had to deal with it.
[43:34.620 --> 43:37.060]  Okay, people are coming closer to the police right now.
[43:37.220 --> 43:39.640]  I am, again, behind the police line.
[43:39.820 --> 43:46.680]  I'm going to try to move forward, and as I do that, they will probably evict me from here entirely, which will mean I'll go in front of the police line.
[43:48.040 --> 43:53.160]  Also, it was about a week ago that AIDS activists occupied the office of the U.S.
[43:53.200 --> 43:54.900]  Trade Representative in Washington, D.C.
[43:55.880 --> 43:57.600]  That's kind of a prelude to this, I suppose.
[43:57.900 --> 43:58.300]  That's right.
[43:58.420 --> 44:01.240]  Interesting you should raise Charlene Baraszewski, the U.S.
[44:01.300 --> 44:07.120]  Trade Representative, because I understand, and again, I don't know because I wasn't in their rooms, that the U.S.
[44:07.200 --> 44:19.500]  Trade Representative, as well as the Secretary of State, and I'm not sure that she's here, but I heard this from people in the street, were forced to remain in their rooms today, and were not able to get to the World Trade Organization meetings.
[44:19.820 --> 44:21.660]  Now, there were some people who got in.
[44:21.800 --> 44:26.980]  For example, Medea Benjamin of Global Exchange and Kevin Danaher, one of the founders of Global Exchange.
[44:27.140 --> 44:30.800]  They were able to get into the meeting after protesting in the streets.
[44:31.080 --> 44:40.100]  Somehow they got in, and they took the microphone, and they talked about what corporate globalization has meant for tens of millions of people around the world.
[44:40.560 --> 44:59.700]  Medea was arrested, the others were evicted, and the National Lawyers Guild in San Francisco is trying to get an injunction against the Seattle police for the way that they have been treating protesters.
[44:59.920 --> 45:09.760]  I mean, the fact that rubber bullets are being used, and the police have denied this until this point, is extremely significant, because it means the police know there's something wrong with this.
[45:09.760 --> 45:23.480]  You know, even though they're rubber, and I've got both kinds in my pocket, the littler ones and the larger ones, they, to say the least, can be very dangerous when fired at point-blank range, not to mention the mace, the pepper spray, and the tear gas.
[45:23.680 --> 45:25.940]  Well, I'm sure anybody in Northern Ireland will attest to that fact.
[45:26.300 --> 45:35.960]  Now, what's very important is that this evidence get out to the public, to the mass media, that they are, in fact, using rubber bullets there, because I have not heard any reports of that in the mass media.
[45:36.260 --> 45:37.480]  Oh, there's no question.
[45:37.640 --> 45:40.360]  I mean, you just have to reach down and you just pick them up.
[45:40.520 --> 45:41.920]  I know CNN was reporting this.
[45:42.120 --> 45:48.640]  I didn't see CNN reporters in the street in the corner where I was, but of course, each corner becomes an entire world.
[45:48.860 --> 45:53.060]  The confrontation becomes, you know, your world is that corner.
[45:53.260 --> 46:00.920]  Now, I'm trying to look at what's happening, whether someone is hurt in the street, or whether people are simply sitting down.
[46:01.860 --> 46:07.480]  But the police line, we are right by the Symphony Hall of Seattle.
[46:08.340 --> 46:19.400]  Interesting, oddly enough, also, the protesters have taken the newspaper stands and they line them up in the street, but they turn them over on their side.
[46:20.720 --> 46:22.520]  Okay, I'm going back.
[46:23.020 --> 46:23.660]  All right.
[46:24.320 --> 46:25.880]  We've got time to chase you out.
[46:25.880 --> 46:28.020]  I know, but...
[46:28.020 --> 46:29.540]  You need to stay behind the van.
[46:33.520 --> 46:35.200]  People are extremely angry.
[46:36.060 --> 46:37.840]  They're shouting, you gassed us.
[46:37.940 --> 46:38.620]  We were peaceful.
[46:40.500 --> 46:41.660]  What did we do?
[46:42.020 --> 46:42.960]  They're asking.
[46:43.460 --> 46:44.820]  And you've gassed us.
[46:47.700 --> 46:48.580]  You've hit us.
[46:48.800 --> 46:58.960]  I know that there was a reporter with the National Radio Project, Laura Lovody, who had sat in the back of her head with these batons, extremely serious batons, about four...
[46:59.580 --> 47:00.460]  Like clubs.
[47:00.660 --> 47:03.560]  They're used as clubs by the police, about four feet long.
[47:04.380 --> 47:06.900]  Amy, could you tell us why this year?
[47:07.320 --> 47:09.060]  Why did this explode this year?
[47:09.240 --> 47:10.760]  Don't they have these meetings every year?
[47:11.380 --> 47:12.740]  Not in the United States.
[47:13.000 --> 47:16.060]  The World Trade Organization was set up in 1995.
[47:16.680 --> 47:19.060]  It is now 1999.
[47:21.040 --> 47:27.060]  And I believe this is the first time that these talks are being held in the United States.
[47:27.060 --> 47:37.080]  So I also think that, you know, the level of awareness of what the World Trade Organization has been doing has grown in these four years since it was established.
[47:37.080 --> 47:38.540]  And more and more people
[47:41.680 --> 47:42.880]  have gotten active.
[47:42.880 --> 47:45.220]  And it's the kind of issue that seems abstract.
[47:45.500 --> 47:55.940]  I mean, no one even knows what the World Trade Organization is or does because of its secretive nature and not knowing who the judges are in courts where decisions are made.
[47:56.140 --> 47:57.880]  But because of the hard work
[48:02.480 --> 48:03.480]  of activists.
[48:04.880 --> 48:07.180]  And it's been a remarkable networking.
[48:07.180 --> 48:21.140]  And I think a lot of that networking has taken place, and this is very relevant to your show on the Internet at sites like seattle99.org, at sites like indymedia.org.
[48:21.140 --> 48:23.340]  Now people can go to democracynow.org.
[48:23.340 --> 48:30.120]  We have a new website for our program that also links to a number of these sites, and people can get a serious sense.
[48:31.040 --> 48:36.820]  I think especially the indymedia.org page of exactly what's happening all the time.
[48:36.820 --> 48:41.280]  The police are now moving people forward in front of the line.
[48:47.600 --> 48:52.300]  Behind me, there's more and more tear gas.
[48:52.480 --> 48:54.700]  I can hear the explosions again tonight.
[48:55.300 --> 49:02.920]  Also, another event that's much tamer but is taking place inside that would be very interesting to hear that we hope to bring to our listeners soon.
[49:02.920 --> 49:06.160]  A debate between representatives of the World Trade Organization.
[49:07.160 --> 49:13.460]  Amy, we're getting reports that the Independent Media Center is being tear gassed right now and there are some people locked in a building.
[49:13.800 --> 49:15.400]  There are people locked in the building.
[49:15.460 --> 49:16.600]  We're trying to reach them.
[49:16.740 --> 49:21.220]  Unfortunately, their cell phone is not answering or it's going straight to voicemail.
[49:21.780 --> 49:24.680]  How close are you to this Independent Media Center and who is in there?
[49:24.680 --> 49:26.960]  Well, I just passed it and they did...
[49:28.960 --> 49:32.620]  The thing is, if I go back, it will be hard to go forward.
[49:36.040 --> 49:37.040]  Let's see here.
[49:37.420 --> 49:38.960]  No, let's see.
[49:39.720 --> 49:41.020]  I'll take a quick look.
[49:43.360 --> 49:47.600]  The Independent Media Center is, you know, the site of a lot of grassroots activism.
[49:47.840 --> 49:58.140]  Also, I mean, this weekend, at the same time that the forums are taking place, the workshops are taking place, there have been a number of civil disobediences leading up to today.
[49:58.600 --> 50:05.160]  Two young women rappelled down to Highway 5 and unfurled a large banner against the WTO.
[50:05.160 --> 50:10.340]  They were arrested at the same time that one of these women's brothers was doing a similar protest in Paris.
[50:10.340 --> 50:13.200]  I hear that in London there are major protests.
[50:14.800 --> 50:17.880]  These protests are happening around the world in India.
[50:18.480 --> 50:21.280]  Hundreds of people just in the last days.
[50:22.060 --> 50:24.040]  Let's see what is happening here.
[50:24.520 --> 50:26.380]  Hundreds of people in the last days.
[50:26.580 --> 50:28.240]  I'm sorry, did you mention New York?
[50:28.500 --> 50:30.460]  There was something in New York today.
[50:31.320 --> 50:32.080]  Oh, today there was.
[50:32.280 --> 50:40.440]  I know that Reclaim the Streets was last weekend on Black Friday.
[50:40.660 --> 50:41.360]  That was on Friday, yeah.
[50:41.540 --> 50:45.060]  I think there was something like 200 or so protesters at the World Trade Center today.
[50:47.640 --> 50:52.300]  And I would expect that there will be more protests especially given what has happened.
[50:52.480 --> 50:52.640]  Okay.
[50:52.880 --> 50:56.560]  I've moved now to the Independent Media Center.
[50:58.500 --> 51:05.940]  again, I saw that the police had blockaded them in and yes, they are blockaded in right now.
[51:06.240 --> 51:09.280]  The police moved a table, turned it on its side.
[51:11.280 --> 51:12.360]  I will...
[51:12.360 --> 51:22.200]  There are not many police here but they have locked them in and everyone is moving against the windows
[51:27.270 --> 51:28.510]  and there's a desk.
[51:29.130 --> 51:29.610]  Let me ask.
[51:29.710 --> 51:30.550]  I'll ask the police.
[51:31.590 --> 51:33.210]  Why are they blockaded inside?
[51:37.550 --> 51:38.050]  Sorry?
[51:38.230 --> 51:39.790]  Is that because...
[51:39.790 --> 51:41.190]  It's better to keep them inside there.
[51:41.330 --> 51:41.910]  We've got them contained.
[51:43.210 --> 51:45.590]  But why prevent them from coming out?
[51:51.670 --> 51:53.970]  The police are moving a table right now.
[51:54.450 --> 51:56.810]  Did I hear them say that they're trying to keep them contained?
[51:57.110 --> 51:58.630]  They're trying to keep them contained.
[51:58.990 --> 51:59.990]  Aren't these media people?
[52:00.390 --> 52:02.150]  These are media activists.
[52:02.490 --> 52:02.810]  I see.
[52:06.710 --> 52:07.150]  Okay.
[52:07.350 --> 52:08.170]  I'll go back to where I was.
[52:15.340 --> 52:18.620]  They're forcing me to go across the street.
[52:20.040 --> 52:22.160]  It looks like they're going to make some arrests here.
[52:23.260 --> 52:24.880]  They're bringing in two buses.
[52:26.500 --> 52:28.440]  That's probably a sign of that, yes.
[52:28.440 --> 52:34.180]  Well, let's see if this is just a public bus or a bus being brought in for this purpose.
[52:37.040 --> 52:38.720]  Oh, it's not a public bus.
[52:39.500 --> 52:42.000]  Or public buses are commandeered
[52:47.400 --> 52:48.200]  to, uh,
[52:51.370 --> 52:51.730]  all right.
[52:51.990 --> 52:53.250]  Take a look at who's driving it.
[52:53.370 --> 52:56.110]  If it's a cop, that's, uh, a good clue there.
[52:57.310 --> 52:57.690]  Yeah.
[52:58.570 --> 52:59.150]  All right.
[52:59.370 --> 53:07.070]  There are, um, about 15 police officers here in front of the independent media center.
[53:07.350 --> 53:09.010]  They've locked all the people in.
[53:09.010 --> 53:25.650]  there are dozens of people inside and they have a bus here and a Humvee is now coming um, to the center and it's past it moving to where the protesters are.
[53:28.620 --> 53:32.040]  Um, have the protesters shown any sign of dispersing?
[53:36.060 --> 53:37.020]  There's a
[53:41.120 --> 53:46.720]  standoff just a block away where I was, uh, right now as I'm at the independent media center.
[53:48.920 --> 53:58.700]  Uh, I see that people are walking down the street, uh, on the other street right now.
[53:59.020 --> 54:01.240]  Let me take a look at what's happening there.
[54:04.060 --> 54:12.540]  It's trying to keep tabs on, uh, these different confrontations around the city.
[54:12.680 --> 54:17.560]  It seems that on every corner there's another situation that is taking place.
[54:17.760 --> 54:26.800]  Seattle has become a battleground, a battleground around corporate globalization, not only in this country, but really for the world.
[54:27.040 --> 54:34.100]  Um, as the protesters keep shouting and chanting throughout the day, the whole world is watching.
[54:34.260 --> 54:35.660]  The whole world is watching.
[54:35.920 --> 54:39.140]  Um, did you say President Clinton actually landed in Seattle?
[54:39.500 --> 54:43.640]  Uh, no, that was actually a taped, uh, uh, broadcast of him landing someplace.
[54:43.900 --> 54:45.780]  What's interesting is we have CNN on here.
[54:45.920 --> 54:49.220]  There's, there's mostly commercials, in fact, several for some pharmaceutical companies.
[54:49.520 --> 54:56.960]  Uh, the only report we've seen is something on tape from, from previously, uh, I've gone through some of the other channels, nothing there.
[54:57.120 --> 55:00.380]  I know when I watch BBC, I'll see quite a lot of coverage of this.
[55:00.500 --> 55:05.800]  I'm sure a lot of the foreign media will get it, but, uh, surprisingly little on the mass media here, but maybe it's not so surprising.
[55:07.380 --> 55:22.900]  No, it's not surprising because the very corporations, uh, that, uh, people are talking about benefiting from globalization are the ones that own the media or the media.
[55:23.260 --> 55:24.880]  The media is corporations.
[55:25.460 --> 55:28.140]  Um, that's what it's all about.
[55:28.460 --> 55:32.080]  Uh, right now, uh, looking at someone who, are you a part of these protests?
[55:33.020 --> 55:34.000]  Well, everyone is part.
[55:34.100 --> 55:35.360]  All of Seattle is protesting.
[55:35.580 --> 55:35.980]  What's that?
[55:36.440 --> 55:37.960]  All of Seattle is protesting.
[55:38.120 --> 55:55.540]  The world is protesting, the WTO, which is, uh, an arrangement by the rich corporation, the transnationals, to open the very last market that ever, very last crevice in this world, uh, destroy communities, destroy the working men and women, destroy families,
[55:55.800 --> 55:57.780]  and just all for corporate greed.
[55:58.180 --> 56:21.840]  With a transgenic agenda of, of seed production, they try to, uh, drive the peasants from the land and tie the farmers to the multinationals like Monsanto, uh, and, and imbue the consumers with, with products and with food stuff that is unregulated and unhealthy and unpredictable.
[56:23.120 --> 56:24.280]  What is your name, sir?
[56:24.940 --> 56:25.320]  J.T.
[56:25.460 --> 56:25.740]  Reebok.
[56:26.560 --> 56:27.300]  What is your name?
[56:27.660 --> 56:29.800]  I work for the city and county of San Francisco.
[56:30.220 --> 56:31.020]  What is your name?
[56:31.580 --> 56:32.200]  J.T.
[56:32.340 --> 56:32.620]  Reebok.
[56:33.200 --> 56:33.600]  Reebok.
[56:33.940 --> 56:34.060]  Yes.
[56:34.560 --> 56:36.120]  Not like the shoes, no, Reebok.
[56:36.940 --> 56:39.400]  And what do you think of these protests, and how did you manage it?
[56:39.400 --> 56:54.840]  Well, I think it's about time that we speak out against the WTO and, and this corporate takeover of our daily lives, and as working men and women, uh, we have to stand up, and the whole world is watching Seattle at this moment.
[56:55.520 --> 56:58.360]  And I won't watch if the police is coming here or not.
[56:59.060 --> 57:20.140]  The whole world is watching, and we are, I think we are the consciousness of the world, working class, and the environmental movement, and peasants and farmers all over, and it's our duty to shut this WTO down, and replace it with some agenda that is people-oriented,
[57:20.660 --> 57:43.040]  protects third-world countries, avoids that the big countries bully the small countries in trade relationships, keeps people on the land, uh, in organic production, replaces the agrochemical production, with organic production, and, uh, and gets us off this mad trip of consumerism.
[57:43.900 --> 57:59.980]  Uh, these corporations just produce things that we don't need, and you have seen that the young people understand that very well, because they targeted those stores of, of, uh, irrational consumerism here and broke, did the material damage in a very selected way,
[58:00.300 --> 58:04.220]  and, uh, that means that they understand perfectly well what's happening.
[58:04.220 --> 58:15.440]  You're wearing a, uh, uh, poncho, because it's been raining throughout the day, that says, Seattle 99 protests of the century, and I've seen hundreds of people wearing this.
[58:15.680 --> 58:15.920]  Right.
[58:16.080 --> 58:36.560]  We are, uh, one month before the millennia, and this is a watershed event, in the sense that it's the first time in, uh, in history, as I know it, that organized labor from all ranks and files, uh, throughout the United States, came here to Seattle, and throughout the world actually came to Seattle,
[58:37.160 --> 58:57.580]  met this morning at the big labor rally, and they were joined by environmentalists, by human rights activists, by, uh, organic farmers, sustainable farmer movements, uh, the United Farm Workers, uh, peace activists, religious people, uh, and we all marched together,
[58:57.840 --> 59:04.080]  uh, in, in one cause, and, and with one agenda.
[59:04.400 --> 59:05.980]  And I think that is great.
[59:06.100 --> 59:06.920]  I've never seen that.
[59:07.260 --> 59:26.720]  And that's the first, and it has created, so thanks to the WTO, and thanks for Seattle for hosting that, that we were able to forge this new alliance, this new global response of, of the working men and women to, to what is happening, uh, at the corporate level.
[59:27.860 --> 59:30.720]  If they're globalized, we can globalize certainly too.
[59:30.920 --> 59:31.480]  Thank you.
[59:32.400 --> 59:33.600]  Amy, can you hear me?
[59:33.780 --> 59:33.880]  Yeah, I can hear you.
[59:33.880 --> 59:37.240]  Okay, we're going to have to cut away because the, uh, the next program is here.
[59:37.460 --> 59:37.560]  Okay.
[59:37.760 --> 59:39.200]  And they've got a late-breaking story of their own.
[59:39.300 --> 59:44.800]  good talking to you, and, uh, it is quite amazing, as usual, to have a place like WBAI.
[59:44.920 --> 59:58.920]  I know in San Francisco they have KPFA, um, all part of this grassroots radio network, because where else can you hear the coverage on the street through the tear gas, hear the people themselves talking about why they've come to Seattle.
[59:59.120 --> 01:00:02.160]  And we'll continue to keep people updated, of course, tomorrow.
[01:00:02.660 --> 01:00:05.740]  Um, uh, we will try to report in on wake-up call.
[01:00:06.060 --> 01:00:12.980]  Uh, I will be doing a show live with Juan Gonzalez, uh, Errol Maitland, our technical director, and, uh,
[01:00:25.980 --> 01:00:28.480]  Maria just says 6th Avenue here, so I guess it's not very specific.
[01:00:29.060 --> 01:00:33.040]  Okay, um, well, uh, you can call me on the cell phone, uh, and I'm sure he's calling.
[01:00:33.040 --> 01:00:33.440]  Okay, we'll work it out.
[01:00:33.480 --> 01:00:34.600]  We'll work it out after the show.
[01:00:34.680 --> 01:00:35.600]  Thanks very much.
[01:00:35.700 --> 01:00:35.860]  Okay.
[01:00:35.980 --> 01:00:38.080]  And, uh, and we will certainly keep the listeners posted.
[01:00:38.200 --> 01:00:39.180]  That's our responsibility.
[01:00:39.180 --> 01:00:39.680]  6th and...
[01:00:39.680 --> 01:00:42.000]  Uh, 6th and...
[01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:42.440]  Thank you.
[01:00:43.360 --> 01:00:44.540]  6th and South 9th.
[01:00:44.720 --> 01:00:45.500]  That's where he is.
[01:00:46.140 --> 01:00:46.640]  All right.
[01:00:47.080 --> 01:00:48.740]  Uh, that's it for Off the Hook tonight.
[01:00:48.960 --> 01:00:50.180]  It's not really an edition of Off the Hook.
[01:00:50.480 --> 01:00:53.800]  Uh, we'll be back again next week with a regularly scheduled show.
[01:00:54.140 --> 01:00:56.180]  And, until then, this is Emanuel Goldstein.
[01:00:56.440 --> 01:01:00.820]  Stay tuned to WBAI for the latest breaking news as far as, uh, as far as the events in Seattle.
[01:01:00.980 --> 01:01:03.500]  And we'll be breaking in throughout the night if anything else happens.
[01:01:04.140 --> 01:01:04.540]  Good night.
[01:01:05.260 --> 01:01:12.260]  The telephone keeps springing So I ripped it off the wall I cut myself while shaving