[00:17.640 --> 00:23.040]  There will be special guest poets and an open mic.
[00:23.480 --> 00:30.580]  For more information, call 212-340-1196.
[00:30.780 --> 00:36.180]  That's 212-340-1196.
[00:41.250 --> 00:43.910]  And you're listening to Radio Station WBAI in New York.
[00:44.110 --> 00:47.190]  It's time, once again, for Off the Hook.
[00:54.170 --> 00:58.670]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:59.610 --> 01:04.170]  I cut myself off shaving, now I can't make a call.
[01:05.150 --> 01:12.430]  I couldn't get my food from Big Le Bon for the best, expect the worst.
[01:13.150 --> 01:15.970]  I hope that's understood from Big Le Bon.
[02:06.000 --> 02:09.100]  And just remember one thing, on Off the Hook, we keep our promises.
[02:10.140 --> 02:12.660]  Use your vehicle of salvation, my brothers.
[02:12.820 --> 02:13.740]  Go buy a gun.
[02:15.440 --> 02:22.960]  And go give your gun to Jesus and say, Jesus, you go kill the disciples of Satan and you kill the Nazis, Jesus.
[02:23.100 --> 02:23.660]  Give me an amen.
[02:24.340 --> 02:24.860]  Hallelujah.
[02:25.300 --> 02:26.800]  Give me a hallelujah, brother.
[02:27.140 --> 02:27.660]  Hallelujah.
[02:27.660 --> 02:30.080]  Feel the pain of sweet Jesus.
[02:30.440 --> 02:31.640]  Give me another amen.
[02:32.460 --> 02:33.540]  Give me another.
[02:34.420 --> 02:36.120]  You've got to kill the noise.
[02:36.680 --> 02:39.340]  You've got to kill the pollution of Satan, brother.
[02:39.500 --> 02:40.400]  Give me a hallelujah.
[02:41.660 --> 02:42.640]  Have you been healed?
[02:43.040 --> 02:44.160]  Have you been saved?
[02:44.700 --> 02:46.160]  Has it happened to you before?
[02:46.420 --> 02:47.100]  Faith the Lord.
[02:47.440 --> 02:48.260]  Praise the Lord.
[02:48.400 --> 02:49.360]  I love Jesus.
[02:50.400 --> 02:51.860]  I love Jesus.
[02:52.400 --> 02:53.360]  Kill the pollution.
[02:54.520 --> 02:55.100]  Pollution.
[03:02.500 --> 03:03.480]  Come on, boy.
[03:08.930 --> 03:09.290]  Yuck.
[03:22.990 --> 03:24.310]  Straight, don't lift that shot.
[03:24.710 --> 03:25.190]  Don't want it.
[03:28.750 --> 03:30.230]  So great, it's not this is critical.
[03:30.610 --> 03:31.470]  We're digging up a concept.
[03:31.730 --> 03:32.990]  Freedom's from a film like the smoke.
[03:33.090 --> 03:34.170]  Got you running from the law.
[03:34.390 --> 03:35.450]  Maybe it's that low end.
[03:35.530 --> 03:36.430]  Smoking with the freestyle.
[03:36.630 --> 03:38.710]  Maybe it's the thought of being on the bottom of the pile.
[03:38.870 --> 03:39.990]  Stout, bow to the sky.
[03:40.150 --> 03:41.330]  Lies, keep them on the sidelines.
[03:41.410 --> 03:42.450]  Choking up a fine rhyme.
[03:42.590 --> 03:43.630]  You need to hop a maneuver.
[03:43.950 --> 03:44.650]  This ain't no joke.
[03:44.810 --> 03:46.490]  You're gonna joke when I'm slinging it to you.
[04:10.490 --> 04:11.790]  Choking up a real tight.
[04:12.750 --> 04:14.070]  Bring them, bring them one night.
[04:14.470 --> 04:16.670]  Okay, I think we've made our point here.
[04:16.750 --> 04:19.870]  That's the music of Limp Bizkit, as we promised last week.
[04:20.510 --> 04:23.890]  Since they took the enlightened route as far as Napster goes.
[04:24.030 --> 04:24.270]  Oh, okay.
[04:24.370 --> 04:24.970]  We're gonna play...
[04:24.970 --> 04:26.830]  I went out and I actually got their CD.
[04:27.030 --> 04:28.490]  So this is Limp Bizkit?
[04:28.750 --> 04:29.110]  Yeah.
[04:29.270 --> 04:29.490]  Okay.
[04:30.190 --> 04:31.310]  This isn't Limp Bizkit right now.
[04:31.310 --> 04:32.350]  Well, all right, that was...
[04:32.350 --> 04:33.350]  That was Limp Bizkit we heard.
[04:33.510 --> 04:33.650]  Okay.
[04:33.810 --> 04:35.430]  We faded it out just in time, too.
[04:37.050 --> 04:38.030]  I can imagine.
[04:38.190 --> 04:40.270]  FCC's very sensitive about issues like that.
[04:40.270 --> 04:42.670]  But, yeah, it's interesting.
[04:43.430 --> 04:46.650]  But the thing is, I had to pay close to $20 to get that CD.
[04:46.830 --> 04:47.330]  Can you believe that?
[04:47.390 --> 04:48.410]  And I think that's outrageous.
[04:48.890 --> 04:49.610]  I really do.
[04:49.850 --> 04:52.030]  It's a good CD, but come on, $20 for something like that?
[04:52.110 --> 04:53.250]  And I think that's part of the whole problem.
[04:53.270 --> 04:58.350]  That's why people are trading music on the net for free.
[04:58.650 --> 05:00.070]  There are reasons it's $20.
[05:00.610 --> 05:01.870]  Yeah, they're ripping us off.
[05:01.950 --> 05:02.710]  That's the reason.
[05:03.090 --> 05:04.590]  That's the only reason I can think of.
[05:04.590 --> 05:05.410]  Well, let's see.
[05:05.730 --> 05:08.070]  Advertising costs, press costs...
[05:08.070 --> 05:08.110]  Uh-huh.
[05:08.310 --> 05:09.710]  All of which are...
[05:09.710 --> 05:10.050]  Studio profits.
[05:10.490 --> 05:10.990]  ...artists' profits.
[05:11.050 --> 05:11.870]  All rip-offs.
[05:12.010 --> 05:12.610]  Every single...
[05:12.610 --> 05:15.250]  There is no way in the world you can convince me a CD is worth $20.
[05:15.510 --> 05:16.050]  I'm sorry.
[05:16.170 --> 05:16.590]  It just is not.
[05:16.710 --> 05:16.970]  Okay.
[05:17.170 --> 05:17.850]  Then don't buy it.
[05:18.490 --> 05:20.430]  Well, I did to prove a point, all right?
[05:20.430 --> 05:23.250]  But I don't, as a rule, buy things like that.
[05:25.470 --> 05:26.190]  It's madness.
[05:26.350 --> 05:28.950]  If anybody out there think that's a good price, you know, straighten me out.
[05:29.050 --> 05:32.330]  I'd like to, you know, get a reality check here.
[05:32.330 --> 05:37.830]  Well, when you own a record store, you can sell them at $5 and operate at a loss.
[05:37.990 --> 05:39.570]  Well, it's not the record store.
[05:39.850 --> 05:42.370]  It's not necessarily them that's...
[05:42.370 --> 05:43.450]  Sure, they mark it up.
[05:43.570 --> 05:45.970]  Yeah, but how much do you think they actually get from the $20?
[05:46.010 --> 05:48.910]  I bet they get maybe $0.20 from profits from that.
[05:48.990 --> 05:49.690]  I doubt that very much.
[05:49.690 --> 05:51.950]  Well, we can do a whole elaborate thing.
[05:51.970 --> 05:57.370]  But the point is, there are hands that this thing is being moved around in, and each of them wants to pull a little bit out.
[05:57.510 --> 05:59.110]  Yeah, and they set all the rules.
[05:59.210 --> 05:59.830]  That's the problem.
[06:00.970 --> 06:03.810]  Consumers should start setting some rules, too.
[06:04.470 --> 06:04.610]  Okay.
[06:05.130 --> 06:07.070]  Now, on the subject, Metallica.
[06:07.250 --> 06:09.590]  Metallica is really on the warpath now.
[06:09.710 --> 06:11.030]  They're taking names.
[06:11.330 --> 06:27.930]  The heavy metal band, which is suing music swapping company Napster for what the musicians say are massive copyright violations, says, and you're going to love this, Isaac, it has identified more than 335,000 individuals who are allegedly sharing the band's songs online in violation of copyright laws.
[06:28.010 --> 06:29.710]  Wow, that's more people than in some nations.
[06:29.910 --> 06:38.950]  The band's attorneys will deliver close to 60,000 pages of documents to the small software company Wednesday afternoon, asking that Napster block all those individuals from the service.
[06:38.950 --> 06:39.270]  Oh, the individuals.
[06:39.530 --> 06:39.690]  Okay.
[06:39.690 --> 06:41.710]  What a tremendous waste of time.
[06:42.610 --> 06:43.650]  And paper, too.
[06:43.770 --> 06:44.530]  The paper alone.
[06:44.730 --> 06:46.210]  I mean, that's a forest right there.
[06:46.370 --> 06:47.410]  60,000 pages.
[06:48.830 --> 06:49.230]  Unbelievable.
[06:49.550 --> 06:52.270]  So, yeah, they're going out there identifying individuals now.
[06:52.810 --> 06:58.190]  It's the first time Napster or other file-swapping software users have been identified in bulk as potential copyright pirates.
[06:58.870 --> 07:10.610]  I don't know if it's going to put a chill on the user end, said Howard King, the Los Angeles attorney who represents Metallica and rap artist Dr. Dre, who also is suing Napster, but it certainly is going to show other artists what they can do to get their work out of Napster.
[07:12.430 --> 07:14.570]  How do they manage to collate this list?
[07:14.690 --> 07:18.470]  I'm not sure, but plenty of man hours and, you know, the cost.
[07:18.570 --> 07:19.310]  This is part of the cost.
[07:19.430 --> 07:23.150]  This is why CDs cost 20 bucks, because they engage in waste of time endeavors like this.
[07:23.150 --> 07:25.050]  So don't buy Metallica CDs.
[07:25.950 --> 07:26.610]  All CDs.
[07:27.010 --> 07:28.310]  Listen to me, listen to me, listen to me.
[07:28.390 --> 07:31.170]  The music industry, all of it, is affected by this.
[07:31.270 --> 07:32.330]  And don't participate in it.
[07:32.570 --> 07:33.150]  Don't listen to music.
[07:33.310 --> 07:33.770]  Don't be a consumer.
[07:33.770 --> 07:36.930]  How about we fight back and we listen to music on our own terms?
[07:37.170 --> 07:37.650]  How about that?
[07:37.870 --> 07:39.650]  Then you would be violating certain laws.
[07:39.790 --> 07:41.230]  Well, then the law might be wrong.
[07:41.550 --> 07:41.790]  Okay.
[07:41.990 --> 07:42.470]  Ever think of that?
[07:42.550 --> 07:44.310]  Then I suggest you pursue changing the law.
[07:44.850 --> 07:46.310]  Always the voice of reason, aren't you?
[07:46.770 --> 07:47.170]  Yes.
[07:47.550 --> 07:50.370]  Well, this is what people are doing, pursuing changing the law in various ways.
[07:52.430 --> 07:53.730]  Let's see what else we got on this.
[07:56.730 --> 07:58.110]  335,435 in total.
[08:00.430 --> 08:00.830]  435.
[08:00.830 --> 08:04.290]  435, they actually put it all the way down to the numerals, did you?
[08:04.350 --> 08:04.530]  Okay.
[08:04.650 --> 08:15.330]  Well, now, what they're doing is, apparently on a Napster site, the company promises to terminate the accounts of users who trade material without permission, but requires copyright holders to notify them of who is doing the unauthorized trading.
[08:15.550 --> 08:17.650]  So Metallica says, we're giving Napster what they asked for.
[08:18.970 --> 08:20.490]  I'd just like to know how they got that information.
[08:20.650 --> 08:20.870]  How do you...
[08:20.870 --> 08:22.270]  I was asking myself.
[08:22.410 --> 08:23.010]  How do you get that?
[08:23.130 --> 08:23.730]  It's unbelievable.
[08:23.730 --> 08:24.330]  Let's see, J.
[08:24.490 --> 08:25.770]  Smith, K.
[08:25.970 --> 08:27.270]  Smith, L.
[08:27.470 --> 08:29.370]  Smith, and here you go.
[08:30.290 --> 08:39.030]  According to their attorneys, Napster users are offering 1.4 million MP3 files of 95 Metallica songs.
[08:40.090 --> 08:41.570]  1.4 million.
[08:41.990 --> 08:43.850]  How many songs did Metallica put out?
[08:44.890 --> 08:46.810]  Well, 95 Metallica songs.
[08:46.810 --> 08:47.370]  95 Metallica songs.
[08:47.510 --> 08:47.610]  Okay.
[08:47.810 --> 08:49.750]  So 1.4 million files of the same 95 songs.
[08:49.770 --> 08:53.890]  I'd like to sue Metallica for taking up bandwidth, because I think they're wasting a lot of space on the net.
[08:54.730 --> 08:55.830]  But no one's going to listen to me.
[08:56.230 --> 09:05.950]  The band sued Napster and three universities last month claiming that they enabled copyright infringement by allowing students to use the company's namesake software to trade near CD quality MP3 files.
[09:06.030 --> 09:06.890]  Aren't they CD quality?
[09:07.010 --> 09:08.130]  They say near CD quality.
[09:08.770 --> 09:11.050]  Everyone's telling me it's a perfect copy.
[09:11.150 --> 09:11.250]  No.
[09:11.830 --> 09:14.270]  Well, if it's not perfect, then it's not the same thing.
[09:14.430 --> 09:17.170]  They're always saying that it's the same thing as getting a CD.
[09:17.350 --> 09:19.130]  Well, if it's not perfect, then it's not the same.
[09:19.170 --> 09:19.870]  It's not perfect.
[09:19.870 --> 09:26.190]  In fact, basically how MP3 works is that it removes pieces from the music that you don't hear.
[09:26.890 --> 09:33.170]  It goes into some pretty interesting audiophile sort of ground.
[09:33.350 --> 09:39.450]  If you want to look into it, you can visit the MPEG Consortium websites and look into it there.
[09:40.790 --> 09:45.570]  According to the data, the most popular Metallica tracks among Napster users are Nothing Else Matters.
[09:45.570 --> 09:56.050]  with 73,772 users sharing, Enter Sandman with 72,257 users sharing, and No Leaf Clover with 59,842 users sharing.
[09:56.590 --> 09:59.050]  Now, keep in mind, you listen to this song once and it counts.
[09:59.450 --> 10:00.030]  You know?
[10:00.450 --> 10:03.770]  That's how they calculate these things.
[10:04.150 --> 10:04.970]  It's scary.
[10:05.450 --> 10:08.730]  The statistics don't distinguish between studio recordings and live versions.
[10:09.230 --> 10:17.770]  The band excluded from its list the more than 38,000 users who were trading audience recordings or bootleg albums, unless a particular user also was trading commercially released material.
[10:19.550 --> 10:19.950]  Wow.
[10:20.270 --> 10:29.670]  The instant that Napster would do this, according to Steve Jones, an intellectual property expert, I wouldn't put it past people with those files to change the file names.
[10:30.610 --> 10:31.010]  Wow.
[10:31.290 --> 10:32.110]  It's that easy.
[10:32.310 --> 10:37.210]  So they decide instead of calling it Metallica, they'll just turn the name backward and, wink, wink, all the Metallica fans are going to know.
[10:37.250 --> 10:38.610]  You see, that's exactly the point I'm trying to make.
[10:38.650 --> 10:39.810]  You can't stop this.
[10:40.010 --> 10:43.390]  You have to figure out a way to work with it, but you can't stop it.
[10:44.230 --> 10:44.670]  But...
[10:45.750 --> 10:48.390]  Artists such as Public Enemy leader Chuck D and Punk Rockers...
[10:48.390 --> 10:49.050]  Punk Rockers?
[10:49.150 --> 10:49.590]  The Offspring?
[10:49.770 --> 10:50.750]  Did you know they were at Punk Rockers?
[10:50.830 --> 10:51.450]  I didn't know that.
[10:52.750 --> 10:56.090]  Offspring has spoken out in favor of the program, saying it promotes CD sales.
[10:56.370 --> 10:57.370]  Rap Metal Outfit...
[10:58.170 --> 11:06.290]  Rap Metal Outfit Limp Bizkit has taken the company on as a tour sponsor for their free summer outing with rappers Cypress Hill.
[11:07.170 --> 11:09.870]  And Metallica will be answering fans' questions about the suit.
[11:10.090 --> 11:11.250]  Oh, that was...
[11:11.250 --> 11:11.690]  Oh, you know what?
[11:11.690 --> 11:13.210]  That's happening right now, 5 p.m.
[11:13.350 --> 11:15.110]  Pacific time, today, Tuesday.
[11:15.970 --> 11:18.510]  Okay, all you internet listeners, you have a real choice now.
[11:18.690 --> 11:27.610]  You can continue to listen to us, or you can wander over to www.artistdirect.com and Yahoo Chat, chat.yahoo.com.
[11:27.610 --> 11:32.190]  And, uh, ask Metallica some questions and see what's, uh, what's going on.
[11:33.110 --> 11:33.650]  All right.
[11:34.430 --> 11:35.070]  Always fun.
[11:35.150 --> 11:35.870]  Always fun on the net.
[11:37.270 --> 11:37.990]  Plenty of going.
[11:38.150 --> 11:38.910]  Plenty of going on.
[11:39.030 --> 11:40.350]  Now, there's some net activism today.
[11:40.790 --> 11:41.250]  Net activism?
[11:41.430 --> 11:42.350]  You were alerting me, too.
[11:42.450 --> 11:45.330]  Yes, you handed me an email that I actually forwarded to OTH.
[11:46.370 --> 11:47.890]  This got passed my way.
[11:48.070 --> 11:48.310]  Isaac.
[11:48.950 --> 11:50.510]  So I'm handing you your own mail.
[11:50.510 --> 11:53.490]  You're handing me my own mail, and I didn't actually even read it much.
[11:53.750 --> 11:55.230]  I kind of...
[11:55.230 --> 11:59.110]  Every week, you set new borders for cluelessness here.
[11:59.190 --> 11:59.630]  I just...
[11:59.630 --> 12:00.210]  This is...
[12:00.210 --> 12:00.690]  I looked down...
[12:00.690 --> 12:01.650]  This is something historic.
[12:01.910 --> 12:02.470]  I mean, come on.
[12:02.630 --> 12:03.130]  I looked down...
[12:03.130 --> 12:05.170]  You sent me mail, and you didn't even read the mail you sent me.
[12:05.170 --> 12:05.530]  No, I sent us...
[12:05.530 --> 12:07.270]  Actually, I sent us both mail, but...
[12:07.270 --> 12:08.790]  So you got this mail twice.
[12:09.010 --> 12:09.330]  Yes.
[12:09.570 --> 12:11.910]  And I just handed it to you, and you still don't know what's on it.
[12:11.910 --> 12:12.770]  I originally received it.
[12:12.830 --> 12:15.410]  I forwarded it to OTH at 2600.com.
[12:15.410 --> 12:17.470]  Which is the right thing to do if you have a news item for us.
[12:17.470 --> 12:18.530]  Yes, for the radio show.
[12:18.530 --> 12:19.490]  Forwarded it to OTH at 2600.com.
[12:19.610 --> 12:20.610]  And then you just handed it back to me.
[12:20.970 --> 12:28.950]  Anyway, I was able to identify this by looking at one line which said, Demonstration to protest the Digital Millennium Copyright Act during public hearings in Washington, D.C.
[12:28.970 --> 12:29.610]  on May 2nd.
[12:29.690 --> 12:31.130]  I thought, ooh, that's kind of interesting.
[12:31.650 --> 12:32.510]  You really thought, ooh?
[12:33.230 --> 12:34.270]  Yes, I thought, ooh.
[12:34.370 --> 12:35.630]  You have little exclamations when you think?
[12:35.810 --> 12:36.270]  Ooh, fine.
[12:36.550 --> 12:36.830]  Go ahead.
[12:36.930 --> 12:37.190]  Go ahead.
[12:37.270 --> 12:37.890]  Go away.
[12:38.690 --> 12:45.150]  The New York Linux User Group, nylug.org, the Washington, D.C.
[12:45.270 --> 13:00.770]  Linux Users Group, dclug.tux.org, and the Northern Virginia Linux Users Group, novalug.tux.org, are teaming up to hold a joint demonstration to protest the Digital Millennium Copyright Act during public hearings in Washington, D.C.
[13:00.810 --> 13:01.270]  on May 2nd.
[13:01.430 --> 13:07.270]  In its current version, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998 grants copyright holders sweeping legal authority over technology.
[13:07.290 --> 13:07.610]  We know.
[13:07.710 --> 13:08.270]  We know it sucks.
[13:08.410 --> 13:11.090]  Now, there was basically a demonstration today in D.C.
[13:11.210 --> 13:11.390]  Yes.
[13:11.530 --> 13:12.530]  That's what the gist of this is.
[13:12.710 --> 13:14.290]  And Eric Raymond has a little quote here.
[13:14.390 --> 13:24.970]  Eric Raymond, co-demonstrator and prominent leader in the open-source software movement, remarked, any law that abolishes consumers' fair use rights and leads to 16-year-old kids getting hassled by foreign police is just wrong.
[13:25.290 --> 13:26.090]  This has to end.
[13:26.530 --> 13:26.850]  All right.
[13:27.070 --> 13:29.110]  Eric Raymond knows what he's talking about with regards to that.
[13:29.110 --> 13:32.070]  Yes, our is, well, a character.
[13:32.830 --> 13:34.070]  So how did it go today, Isaac?
[13:34.270 --> 13:34.830]  I have no idea.
[13:34.870 --> 13:36.030]  You have no idea how it went, either.
[13:36.250 --> 13:36.390]  All right.
[13:36.470 --> 13:42.570]  Well, if anybody out there knows, if they were down there, if they got beaten up by the cops or something like that, let us know, and we'll report it here on the radio.
[13:42.590 --> 13:42.650]  I think the D.C.
[13:42.690 --> 13:44.990]  police are all done with the beating up thing.
[13:45.410 --> 13:46.910]  Well, they have to practice for next time.
[13:48.030 --> 13:50.830]  The stores of tear gas are kind of running low, so...
[13:50.830 --> 13:52.810]  Tear gas, pepper spray, clubs, sticks...
[13:52.810 --> 13:57.110]  It doesn't take much to, like, bring a bunch of nerds and geeks to submission, though, either.
[13:57.990 --> 14:02.090]  Well, that may be so, but just don't tell us that we can't have our source code.
[14:02.890 --> 14:04.930]  You know, that's one thing that will not fly.
[14:06.750 --> 14:08.130]  Well, this is a happy day.
[14:08.350 --> 14:08.710]  Happy day?
[14:08.790 --> 14:09.170]  Don't you think?
[14:09.270 --> 14:09.930]  It's a very happy day.
[14:09.970 --> 14:10.110]  Yes.
[14:10.110 --> 14:13.190]  You can see in the streets that we're celebrating peace, finally.
[14:13.450 --> 14:14.610]  The SA code was turned off.
[14:15.630 --> 14:16.630]  Well, that's another story.
[14:16.730 --> 14:17.590]  Okay, we'll get to that in a moment.
[14:17.670 --> 14:20.070]  But I'm talking about the bigger issue of just peace in general.
[14:20.190 --> 14:20.670]  Peace in general?
[14:20.730 --> 14:22.030]  Yeah, I mean, it's a beautiful thing.
[14:22.030 --> 14:25.310]  People hugging themselves in the streets, or hugging other people, actually, in the streets.
[14:25.430 --> 14:26.390]  Some people hugging themselves.
[14:26.390 --> 14:27.470]  I missed this, then.
[14:27.870 --> 14:30.230]  You have to pay attention to what's going on in the world.
[14:30.590 --> 14:31.750]  It's, you know...
[14:31.750 --> 14:32.950]  Where was all this hugging going on?
[14:33.050 --> 14:41.770]  Well, the hugging's going on outside, but the point is that, you know, embittered conflicts have been raging and really dragging a lot of us down.
[14:42.250 --> 14:44.350]  And now, at last, we're over that.
[14:44.450 --> 14:45.530]  It's the spring.
[14:45.650 --> 14:46.330]  The spring is here.
[14:46.790 --> 14:47.910]  Peace has broken out.
[14:48.970 --> 14:50.650]  And it's a good thing, don't you think?
[14:50.650 --> 14:51.510]  Peace has broken out.
[14:51.510 --> 14:52.370]  Peace has broken out.
[14:52.490 --> 14:54.090]  That's an interesting way to put it.
[14:54.090 --> 15:00.010]  I'm not talking about, you know, these minor things like peace in Vietnam, or peace in Vieques, or anything like that.
[15:00.090 --> 15:00.370]  No, no, no.
[15:00.390 --> 15:01.590]  This is the real world.
[15:01.670 --> 15:04.550]  I'm talking about peace between Time Warner and Disney.
[15:05.390 --> 15:05.610]  Really?
[15:05.730 --> 15:05.990]  Isn't it beautiful?
[15:06.110 --> 15:06.990]  They've reached an agreement.
[15:07.290 --> 15:09.590]  These two megacorporations were at war yesterday.
[15:10.030 --> 15:11.870]  They were threatening all kinds of horrible things.
[15:11.990 --> 15:13.230]  And, you know, especially...
[15:13.230 --> 15:16.570]  I had mixed feelings about it, because these are two of the companies that are suing us.
[15:16.930 --> 15:19.230]  And here, they can't even get along with each other.
[15:19.230 --> 15:20.810]  And it's just, come on, guys.
[15:20.870 --> 15:21.710]  You've got to unite.
[15:21.950 --> 15:23.150]  We're the enemy over here.
[15:23.270 --> 15:25.990]  Hello, you know, come fire your salvos over here.
[15:26.210 --> 15:28.090]  And, you know, don't waste it on yourselves.
[15:28.390 --> 15:33.130]  It's like watching the end of a James Bond film, you know, where the bad guys seem to be victorious.
[15:33.430 --> 15:37.570]  But then, it's like, hey, Chucky got an extra quarter out of this deal.
[15:37.570 --> 15:38.250]  What's up with that?
[15:38.250 --> 15:40.430]  And then they start shooting each other and killing.
[15:40.670 --> 15:41.770]  And James Bond grabs the girl.
[15:42.110 --> 15:42.530]  The good guys win.
[15:42.850 --> 15:44.410]  You know, I don't want it to go that way.
[15:44.410 --> 15:48.750]  I want to, you know, face them down in court and have logic dictate this.
[15:48.990 --> 15:52.950]  You know, not corruption, not greed, not all the usual things.
[15:52.950 --> 15:54.770]  I want to have logic prevail.
[15:55.490 --> 15:55.890]  Right?
[15:55.950 --> 15:56.330]  It's fair.
[15:56.650 --> 15:57.530]  So, come on, guys.
[15:58.410 --> 16:04.910]  We want Time Warner and Disney to just, you know, kiss and make up, do whatever they have to do.
[16:05.090 --> 16:08.810]  Yeah, they took Channel 7 off the air here in New York.
[16:09.510 --> 16:10.990]  A lot of people ran out and...
[16:10.990 --> 16:12.470]  That was the lead story.
[16:12.590 --> 16:13.450]  Do you have a newspaper in here?
[16:13.450 --> 16:14.370]  Is there a newspaper?
[16:14.510 --> 16:16.030]  What's the headline on the newspaper?
[16:17.290 --> 16:18.130]  Alex is here.
[16:18.330 --> 16:19.910]  Read the headline for Newsday, Alex.
[16:20.770 --> 16:21.130]  Unplugged.
[16:21.330 --> 16:25.410]  Network off cable and NYC amid Disney Time Warner battle.
[16:25.970 --> 16:30.410]  Now, that's the most important news story in this nation according to...
[16:30.410 --> 16:31.630]  in the world, according to that paper.
[16:32.250 --> 16:34.370]  Now, turn on any other network...
[16:34.370 --> 16:35.130]  Well, it's Newsday.
[16:35.230 --> 16:37.210]  Okay, but I'll bet if you got the Daily News...
[16:37.210 --> 16:37.630]  You have the Daily...
[16:37.630 --> 16:38.270]  Is it Daily News here?
[16:38.390 --> 16:38.950]  Oh, it's the Daily News.
[16:39.090 --> 16:42.330]  If anyone has the Daily News, bring in the Daily News, the New York Post, even the New York Times.
[16:42.330 --> 16:43.730]  I'll bet it's on the front page of the New York Times.
[16:43.730 --> 16:45.710]  Did you see what was on ABC's website?
[16:46.250 --> 16:46.690]  No.
[16:47.770 --> 16:53.010]  They said that it was unfathomable for people to go a day without Oprah.
[16:53.290 --> 16:55.470]  And that was their major concern.
[16:55.490 --> 16:57.730]  This is the kind of thing that matters.
[16:57.730 --> 16:59.550]  The Greed show was their big draw.
[16:59.650 --> 17:00.010]  Yeah, what is it?
[17:00.110 --> 17:01.270]  The Greed show that they have on there?
[17:01.490 --> 17:02.370]  The Greed is Fox.
[17:02.530 --> 17:04.050]  The Millionaire show is on ABC.
[17:04.190 --> 17:04.750]  This you know.
[17:04.790 --> 17:05.170]  The Greed is.
[17:05.190 --> 17:05.650]  This you...
[17:05.650 --> 17:08.690]  You know the difference between Greed and Millionaire, but you don't know your own email.
[17:08.990 --> 17:09.130]  No.
[17:10.130 --> 17:11.470]  Take a good long look, Isaac.
[17:11.970 --> 17:14.190]  Take a good long look at how the rest of the world views you.
[17:15.130 --> 17:22.570]  What was funny about this whole thing is if you went to Time Warner's site, they say that ABC pulled their shows off.
[17:22.570 --> 17:25.330]  And if you went to ABC's site, they say that Time Warner pulled.
[17:25.330 --> 17:29.630]  And if you turned to Channel 7, it said Disney has taken Channel 7 away from you.
[17:30.250 --> 17:33.450]  It's basically, it's, you know, Pravda versus Vestia here.
[17:33.590 --> 17:38.670]  You know, they're both monopolies as far as, you know, certain aspects of broadcasting.
[17:38.970 --> 17:43.330]  But, you know, I think it's especially weird when you have cable TV where you just don't have any choice.
[17:43.810 --> 17:47.810]  You know, you have to play by their rules or you get cut off completely.
[17:48.170 --> 17:52.670]  But then again, Disney, anybody who can cut off Disney, I got to shake their hand.
[17:53.670 --> 17:54.530]  That's quite an accomplishment right there.
[17:54.530 --> 18:01.950]  I would imagine it basically came down to money, where the losses for ABC and losing their advertising and basically the number of lines.
[18:01.970 --> 18:02.050]  Sweep, sweep, sweep.
[18:02.150 --> 18:03.210]  The first day of sweep, sweep.
[18:03.350 --> 18:04.630]  I mean, that's low.
[18:04.810 --> 18:05.930]  You know what was on the millionaire show?
[18:06.290 --> 18:07.630]  It was celebrity millionaire.
[18:08.270 --> 18:09.010]  You know that too.
[18:09.090 --> 18:09.930]  The celebrities who were...
[18:09.930 --> 18:11.430]  You know who's on the millionaire show.
[18:11.570 --> 18:12.950]  Rosie was supposed to be on.
[18:13.110 --> 18:13.390]  I knew that.
[18:13.390 --> 18:15.610]  David Duchovny got to $32,000.
[18:15.870 --> 18:16.110]  Yes.
[18:16.210 --> 18:17.370]  I know it because of David Duchovny.
[18:17.470 --> 18:18.890]  You haven't been introduced yet, so you can't talk.
[18:19.010 --> 18:19.130]  Oh.
[18:20.310 --> 18:21.490]  It just confuses the listeners.
[18:21.590 --> 18:21.750]  Down you.
[18:25.050 --> 18:27.430]  I'm really disillusioned that we know it so well.
[18:27.610 --> 18:29.030]  They probably both lost...
[18:29.030 --> 18:34.730]  Looked at the numbers and said, well, ABC is losing so much in advertising revenue because no one was watching the shows.
[18:34.810 --> 18:36.410]  Hey, wasn't Monday Night Football on last night?
[18:36.490 --> 18:36.970]  It's Monday night.
[18:37.570 --> 18:38.470]  I have no idea.
[18:39.410 --> 18:41.850]  See, I'm showing my ignorance of ABC and organized sports.
[18:41.850 --> 18:42.550]  And organized sports in general.
[18:42.550 --> 18:43.390]  Two things I'm proud of.
[18:43.530 --> 18:43.630]  Ooh.
[18:44.290 --> 18:49.510]  Anyway, on our website, we invited employees of both Disney and Time Warner.
[18:49.510 --> 18:56.150]  If they had any dirt on the other side that they wanted to share with us, we were happy to be a sounding board.
[18:56.930 --> 18:58.510]  And we got some submissions.
[18:58.510 --> 18:59.150]  We actually did.
[18:59.170 --> 19:00.050]  You actually had people buy.
[19:00.050 --> 19:04.030]  People are emailing in and some of them are pretty descriptive email addresses too.
[19:04.230 --> 19:08.090]  I won't get into that as far as, you know, yeah, they definitely work for these places.
[19:08.690 --> 19:12.990]  I used to be a loyal Disney cast member at Disney Feature Animation in Burbank, California.
[19:13.070 --> 19:18.570]  I have my name and technical support credits for The Lion King, Pocahontas, The Hunchback of Notre Dame and Hercules.
[19:18.850 --> 19:21.450]  When I started, life was relatively great at Disney.
[19:21.630 --> 19:27.270]  Then, they started hiring so many people, more and more, until in 1998, they had to start laying off 30% of their employees.
[19:27.490 --> 19:33.790]  Over the six years I was there, their human relations policies went from good to bad to worse as they had to deal with union labor issues.
[19:33.970 --> 19:42.030]  Many of us that had to join the unions got screwed as Disney refused to put people with the time and experience in the job into the proper legal union scale categories.
[19:43.870 --> 19:45.130]  Then they started laying off people.
[19:45.130 --> 20:00.190]  The word must have gone down the managerial ranks to stir up dissent without disrupting operations until the layoffs started, with the ones who were in the most position to gain from union benefits, that has cost Disney more money, and I'm trying to make sense out of this.
[20:00.310 --> 20:02.350]  It's kind of like sentence fragments and things like that.
[20:02.910 --> 20:05.530]  There's a Tiananmen Square reference later on.
[20:06.190 --> 20:07.550]  A Tiananmen Square reference.
[20:07.570 --> 20:10.390]  Large corporations have managed to become largely autonomous from the U.S.
[20:10.510 --> 20:14.630]  Constitution and the Bill of Rights, especially when they outsource a large amount of their products from overseas.
[20:15.910 --> 20:19.890]  This fight about Napster and DVDs is just the beginning of a consumer rebellion.
[20:19.890 --> 20:23.390]  The trouble is that the lawyers are still getting rich and the common people poorer.
[20:24.470 --> 20:29.250]  That's one of many things that we've gotten from Time Warner and Disney.
[20:29.790 --> 20:32.110]  And if you're a Time Warner or Disney employee, feel free.
[20:32.230 --> 20:34.910]  I mean, you know, we may be at peace right now, but you never know.
[20:35.030 --> 20:36.310]  You never know what's going to happen next.
[20:36.370 --> 20:40.130]  In fact, I understand that the agreement only lasts until July 15th.
[20:40.130 --> 20:41.870]  When it could all start all over again.
[20:42.070 --> 20:44.050]  And July 15th is the middle day of H2K.
[20:44.290 --> 20:54.730]  So we'll be right there in New York to be there, to console you if you have some atrocities to report from the other warring factions.
[20:56.030 --> 21:06.850]  Speaking of H2K, keynote speaker announced Jello Biafra from the former lead singer from the Dead Kennedys, and tell me there's an owl in the room that just said who.
[21:07.790 --> 21:11.050]  You did not just say who when I said we had Jello Biafra as our keynote speaker.
[21:11.130 --> 21:11.510]  Did you, Isaac?
[21:11.730 --> 21:12.230]  Yes, I did.
[21:12.690 --> 21:13.810]  Who is Jello Biafra?
[21:14.010 --> 21:14.750]  He's wonderful.
[21:15.670 --> 21:16.730]  Holiday in Cambodia?
[21:17.170 --> 21:17.450]  Yeah.
[21:17.810 --> 21:18.810]  With people dressing black?
[21:19.370 --> 21:20.030]  Wonderful guy.
[21:20.250 --> 21:22.310]  You know, I don't have any Jello Biafra with me.
[21:23.430 --> 21:25.570]  But, actually, okay, how about this?
[21:25.750 --> 21:26.830]  Do you remember the first Hope?
[21:27.030 --> 21:29.210]  Do you remember the opening of the first Hope?
[21:29.310 --> 21:34.370]  Do you remember when we were playing a recording about the martial law being imposed?
[21:34.830 --> 21:35.870]  I believe so.
[21:35.970 --> 21:38.670]  Well, that's the guy, except this time we have him in person.
[21:38.670 --> 21:42.810]  And he'll be giving the keynote Saturday the 15th at noon, of course.
[21:43.330 --> 21:44.090]  Who is he with?
[21:44.390 --> 21:50.710]  Well, right now he's with a band called Lard, but he also has a spoken word tour, which is really unbelievable.
[21:50.710 --> 21:55.190]  If you have a chance, go down to a record store somewhere, or go online and look for it.
[21:55.190 --> 21:55.930]  I'm sure he won't mind.
[21:56.570 --> 21:58.550]  Look for his spoken word pieces Jello Biafra.
[21:58.670 --> 21:59.970]  He talks about all kinds of things.
[22:01.230 --> 22:02.190]  Including hacking things?
[22:02.330 --> 22:04.370]  Well, it's going to include hacking things, yes.
[22:04.750 --> 22:05.070]  Okay.
[22:05.710 --> 22:10.650]  I mean, you know, kids being kicked out of school for figuring out how to get to a DOS prompt, things like that.
[22:10.730 --> 22:15.270]  That kind of thing is related to all the other things happening in society today.
[22:15.430 --> 22:16.290]  Well, he is the keynote.
[22:16.930 --> 22:19.430]  I hope he kind of gets on the hacking a bit.
[22:19.430 --> 22:21.010]  But I think, I think he's quite capable.
[22:21.170 --> 22:22.830]  He's a pretty socially active sort of guy.
[22:22.830 --> 22:23.010]  Yeah.
[22:23.010 --> 22:24.830]  I think he can relate pretty well.
[22:25.870 --> 22:26.490]  I was very excited about that.
[22:26.490 --> 22:28.110]  The man is the lead singer of Lard?
[22:28.470 --> 22:29.990]  Well, he used to be with the Dead Kennedys.
[22:30.050 --> 22:30.650]  Dead Kennedys, too.
[22:30.750 --> 22:31.230]  Dead Kennedys.
[22:32.370 --> 22:32.970]  Good old DK.
[22:33.310 --> 22:34.530]  Al Jorgensen is in Lard, too.
[22:34.610 --> 22:35.130]  His brother is dead.
[22:35.270 --> 22:36.970]  Al Jorgensen, do you know who Al Jorgensen is?
[22:37.070 --> 22:37.250]  Yeah, yeah.
[22:37.250 --> 22:37.750]  Ministry, right.
[22:37.750 --> 22:39.690]  You know what ministry is, Isaac?
[22:39.970 --> 22:40.330]  Ministry.
[22:40.470 --> 22:41.750]  Al Jorgensen, ministry, no?
[22:42.470 --> 22:42.970]  Lost it.
[22:43.110 --> 22:43.270]  Okay.
[22:43.610 --> 22:44.310]  Psalm 69.
[22:45.010 --> 22:45.150]  Yeah.
[22:45.550 --> 22:45.990]  Good stuff.
[22:48.090 --> 22:50.170]  Well, we'll give you a refresher course later on.
[22:50.350 --> 22:50.370]  Thank you.
[22:50.390 --> 22:50.650]  All right.
[22:50.930 --> 22:51.990]  We must move on now.
[22:53.430 --> 22:58.450]  Particularly scary to the people of New York is this picture, which will be on the front page of the Village Voice tonight.
[22:58.710 --> 22:59.150]  That's you.
[22:59.230 --> 22:59.670]  That's me.
[22:59.670 --> 23:00.910]  I'm on the front page of the Village Voice.
[23:01.030 --> 23:01.530]  Can you believe that?
[23:02.070 --> 23:03.390]  Do you believe he posed for it?
[23:03.390 --> 23:04.930]  Well, I can't believe they used this picture.
[23:05.090 --> 23:09.550]  I mean, you know, there are a lot of better pictures that were out there, and they used that one.
[23:09.670 --> 23:11.690]  That's going to be on the front page of the damn voice.
[23:12.190 --> 23:13.710]  So we'll go down and pick up a copy on them?
[23:13.930 --> 23:14.150]  Yeah.
[23:14.490 --> 23:14.670]  Cool.
[23:14.930 --> 23:16.990]  Try to get them all off the street before other people see them.
[23:18.450 --> 23:20.750]  But, yeah, I read through the article here.
[23:20.870 --> 23:22.830]  Hackers start bonfire in Central Park.
[23:23.150 --> 23:23.610]  Trying to.
[23:26.550 --> 23:26.910]  Yeah.
[23:28.370 --> 23:31.190]  It's all about the DVD case.
[23:31.430 --> 23:31.690]  Ah.
[23:32.250 --> 23:34.490]  So that is not a CD in your hand there.
[23:34.610 --> 23:35.090]  It's a DVD.
[23:35.370 --> 23:35.530]  It's a DVD.
[23:35.770 --> 23:36.090]  Ah.
[23:36.590 --> 23:37.090]  It is a DVD.
[23:40.230 --> 23:42.130]  Although you can't really tell the difference, can you?
[23:42.130 --> 23:42.330]  I can't tell.
[23:42.490 --> 23:43.350]  They both look exactly the same.
[23:43.630 --> 23:43.730]  Right.
[23:45.010 --> 23:47.790]  So the article is basically about our fight.
[23:48.310 --> 23:53.370]  Our fight with the movie production companies and our lawyer, Martin Garbus.
[23:54.010 --> 23:55.170]  And the various...
[23:55.170 --> 23:55.750]  It's a good article.
[23:56.130 --> 23:56.850]  It's a pretty good article.
[23:56.930 --> 23:57.850]  Except for one thing.
[23:58.170 --> 23:58.490]  Uh-oh.
[23:58.610 --> 23:59.490]  I knew this was coming.
[23:59.650 --> 24:00.390]  Well, yeah.
[24:00.730 --> 24:01.770]  There's one thing.
[24:01.770 --> 24:04.670]  Okay, they go into a lot of things about the whole case and what it's about.
[24:04.730 --> 24:06.190]  And they get just about all of it right.
[24:07.250 --> 24:08.090]  But, I don't know.
[24:08.250 --> 24:09.430]  There's just something in here.
[24:10.890 --> 24:12.710]  They take this little pot shot.
[24:13.530 --> 24:14.230]  I don't know why.
[24:14.290 --> 24:16.730]  It's like the thing in journalism.
[24:16.950 --> 24:18.190]  Quote-unquote journalism these days.
[24:18.290 --> 24:19.190]  You've got to take a pot shot.
[24:19.190 --> 24:24.910]  And because the guy who wrote this article also writes for Wired, Wired teaches you this.
[24:25.290 --> 24:28.110]  For instance, if I was writing an article about you, Isaac.
[24:28.670 --> 24:29.670]  Why would one want to write about me?
[24:29.670 --> 24:31.930]  Well, you know, you're the second coming of Christ or whatever.
[24:32.290 --> 24:34.670]  I'm writing all these good things about you.
[24:34.750 --> 24:38.430]  But then, in the middle of the article, I have to say, Isaac is an ugly man.
[24:38.430 --> 24:41.070]  He's in his mid-40s, short, fat, and balding.
[24:41.330 --> 24:41.730]  Hey!
[24:42.190 --> 24:45.130]  And one gets the impression that he has no friends.
[24:45.310 --> 24:50.490]  You know, they have to put that sentence in there somewhere to prove that they're being fair.
[24:50.810 --> 24:52.410]  You know, to prove that...
[24:52.410 --> 24:53.430]  Yeah, to prove that's accurate.
[24:53.530 --> 24:54.490]  This is radio, guys.
[24:54.590 --> 24:56.670]  You know, I can hide behind the microphone just a bit.
[24:56.810 --> 24:58.730]  But did they talk to the MPAA at all?
[25:00.290 --> 25:02.590]  Well, let me get to the point here.
[25:04.050 --> 25:06.570]  They say I look like a hacker, right?
[25:07.430 --> 25:15.310]  All stringy, black hair, pale skin, hunched shoulders have the unmistakable pallor of someone who spends most of his time alone in front of a computer screen.
[25:16.650 --> 25:18.090]  Is it supposed to be insulting?
[25:18.570 --> 25:19.870]  I, for one, am proud of it.
[25:19.890 --> 25:21.130]  That's not that insulting, right?
[25:21.810 --> 25:23.190]  It's not that insulting.
[25:25.790 --> 25:29.170]  But then they say I failed the test in one important regard.
[25:29.370 --> 25:29.590]  Uh-oh.
[25:30.030 --> 25:31.110]  He does not hack.
[25:31.910 --> 25:37.010]  He couldn't hack his way into a paper bag, says one ex-hacker who naturally chooses to remain anonymous.
[25:37.590 --> 25:38.510]  Oh, come on already.
[25:38.650 --> 25:39.250]  First of all...
[25:39.250 --> 25:40.130]  Isn't the phrase out of a paper bag?
[25:40.290 --> 25:40.670]  You're right.
[25:40.750 --> 25:42.650]  The phrase is hack your way out of a paper bag.
[25:42.850 --> 25:44.950]  Why would anybody want to hack their way into a paper bag?
[25:45.030 --> 25:45.590]  Well, it's more difficult.
[25:45.590 --> 25:45.970]  I don't know.
[25:47.110 --> 25:48.350]  It's also very pointless.
[25:49.030 --> 25:53.770]  Well, both cases are pointless, but it's a little more difficult to get into the paper bag and out.
[25:53.990 --> 25:56.990]  Actually, I do know some people would try to hack their way into a paper bag.
[25:56.990 --> 25:57.090]  Paper bag?
[25:57.210 --> 25:57.390]  Yeah.
[25:57.830 --> 26:01.350]  Because of the various gases that are inside the paper bag, but never mind that.
[26:01.490 --> 26:02.250]  I'm not going to go there.
[26:02.250 --> 26:03.650]  No, this is...
[26:04.190 --> 26:05.050]  See, here's the thing.
[26:05.250 --> 26:09.550]  They feel the need to say this without ever...
[26:09.550 --> 26:12.630]  I mean, an anonymous person saying he can't hack his way into a paper.
[26:12.650 --> 26:13.250]  What does that mean?
[26:13.730 --> 26:14.890]  What does that even mean?
[26:15.350 --> 26:15.650]  You know?
[26:16.710 --> 26:17.650]  Give me something to hack.
[26:17.750 --> 26:18.070]  Come on.
[26:18.410 --> 26:18.910]  Very strange.
[26:18.950 --> 26:19.750]  Hack things all the time.
[26:19.830 --> 26:28.050]  The thing is, you know, you can't go around hacking the website of the White House when you're putting out a magazine and, you know, kind of publicly on display.
[26:28.470 --> 26:32.970]  So, you have to kind of refine your hacking talents in various ways.
[26:33.170 --> 26:41.590]  But, I mean, this obviously comes from some sore head someplace that is angry that there's no Village Voice article about them, so they, or they're just completely made up.
[26:41.650 --> 26:41.950]  I don't know.
[26:42.830 --> 26:43.190]  Come on.
[26:43.250 --> 26:43.750]  Give me some of the hack.
[26:43.810 --> 26:44.450]  I want to hack something.
[26:44.530 --> 26:45.490]  I have a plastic bag.
[26:46.290 --> 26:47.790]  You want me to hack a plastic bag?
[26:47.930 --> 26:48.690]  Well, that's all I got.
[26:50.490 --> 26:50.910]  Hold on.
[26:50.970 --> 26:52.050]  I have a little sharp organizer.
[26:52.230 --> 26:53.210]  Let me demonstrate, okay?
[26:53.410 --> 26:53.550]  Okay.
[26:53.590 --> 26:54.850]  You have the telephone here, right?
[26:55.030 --> 26:55.230]  Yes.
[26:55.230 --> 26:55.670]  All right.
[26:56.550 --> 26:58.730]  We've hacked the phone many times on this station.
[26:59.010 --> 26:59.930]  Isn't that called freaking?
[27:00.630 --> 27:00.890]  No.
[27:00.990 --> 27:06.110]  Freaking is when you figure out a way to make free phone calls using the Bell network, which you can't really do anymore.
[27:06.410 --> 27:06.610]  Okay.
[27:06.610 --> 27:10.130]  Some people refer to Sprint codes as freaking, but that's not freaking.
[27:10.230 --> 27:11.690]  That's just using numbers.
[27:12.030 --> 27:15.170]  Now, figuring out how to get the numbers, that's something right there.
[27:15.290 --> 27:16.650]  If you can do that.
[27:16.830 --> 27:18.550]  I'm trying to demonstrate that you do know these things.
[27:18.670 --> 27:20.170]  I'll show you something lame, okay?
[27:20.350 --> 27:20.670]  Okay.
[27:21.750 --> 27:25.010]  Let's contact a voicemail system.
[27:26.790 --> 27:30.830]  Voicemail hacking is kind of low, but I mean, there's only so much we can do on the air.
[27:31.170 --> 27:31.270]  Yeah.
[27:31.550 --> 27:31.730]  All right.
[27:32.090 --> 27:35.850]  Do we have a signal here?
[27:40.510 --> 27:41.290]  That's just great.
[27:41.550 --> 27:43.070]  Now, this phone system needs to be hacked.
[27:43.190 --> 27:43.850]  I'll tell you that right now.
[27:43.930 --> 27:44.090]  Okay.
[27:44.670 --> 27:45.650]  You know what I think might have happened?
[27:45.670 --> 27:49.570]  I think I waited so long that what we had wasn't a real dial tone anymore.
[27:49.810 --> 27:50.470]  No, it's a fake dial tone.
[27:50.530 --> 27:51.370]  It's a fake dial tone.
[27:51.370 --> 27:51.910]  So, okay.
[27:51.970 --> 27:53.950]  Let's try that again.
[27:55.830 --> 27:56.230]  Okay.
[27:56.310 --> 28:01.630]  I'm installing a voicemail system at a major...
[28:01.630 --> 28:02.770]  This is the phone mail system.
[28:02.970 --> 28:05.330]  You may either enter your extension or your name.
[28:05.510 --> 28:09.090]  To enter an extension, dial the extension and then push enter or pound.
[28:09.250 --> 28:10.050]  This is the phone mail system.
[28:10.050 --> 28:11.210]  We've played with this many, many times.
[28:11.210 --> 28:11.750]  I hate these things.
[28:11.910 --> 28:15.330]  It's like press A for, you know, advice or some weird thing.
[28:15.410 --> 28:16.130]  It's horrible.
[28:16.470 --> 28:19.770]  So, now, basically, I think the option is where we could enter a phone number or name.
[28:19.770 --> 28:21.570]  You may either enter your extension or your name.
[28:21.710 --> 28:25.250]  To enter an extension, dial the extension and then push enter or pound.
[28:25.550 --> 28:25.770]  Smith.
[28:25.770 --> 28:27.310]  To enter your name, dial your name.
[28:27.730 --> 28:28.110]  Hang on.
[28:28.230 --> 28:29.250]  I'm going to spell Smith.
[28:29.490 --> 28:33.610]  S-M-I-T-H.
[28:34.990 --> 28:36.110]  And it's waiting for more.
[28:36.230 --> 28:37.250]  So, let's do...
[28:38.010 --> 28:38.970]  Let's hit A.
[28:39.070 --> 28:40.550]  Please continue dialing the name.
[28:40.550 --> 28:43.350]  Last name followed by first name until recognized.
[28:43.630 --> 28:46.510]  If you have finished dialing, push stop or star.
[28:46.550 --> 28:46.870]  No, no.
[28:46.910 --> 28:47.370]  I'll keep going.
[28:47.770 --> 28:48.450]  You entered.
[28:49.010 --> 28:52.990]  This is Brenda Smith of the Employee Assistance Program.
[28:53.450 --> 28:53.930]  Hi, Brenda.
[28:53.990 --> 28:57.570]  If this is correct, dial your password and then push enter or pound.
[28:57.830 --> 29:00.450]  If not, push stop or star.
[29:04.390 --> 29:07.490]  When you have finished dialing, push enter or pound.
[29:08.450 --> 29:14.030]  You may record a message, change your answering options, change your mailbox options, transfer out of phone mail.
[29:14.030 --> 29:14.950]  That's not what I wanted to do.
[29:15.070 --> 29:16.050]  I didn't want to get in.
[29:16.370 --> 29:19.410]  I wanted to demonstrate the hacking part of that.
[29:22.090 --> 29:23.130]  Do you want to hear something called that?
[29:23.130 --> 29:24.810]  To change your mailbox options, push 9.
[29:25.090 --> 29:28.350]  To transfer out of phone mail, push 7, then 0.
[29:28.350 --> 29:30.790]  You have asked to change your mailbox options.
[29:31.010 --> 29:33.430]  To change your distribution lists, push 1.
[29:33.650 --> 29:35.710]  To change your prompt level, push 2.
[29:35.910 --> 29:37.690]  To change your password, push 3.
[29:37.890 --> 29:40.230]  To change your playback options, push 5.
[29:40.350 --> 29:47.870]  To return to home state, you may change the volume at which your messages and the phone mail prompts are played, and the speed at which your messages are played.
[29:48.070 --> 29:49.950]  Volume is currently at level 3.
[29:50.230 --> 29:52.410]  This is the standard level for the system.
[29:52.650 --> 29:54.710]  Speed is currently at level 3.
[29:54.710 --> 29:57.370]  This is the standard speed for the system.
[29:57.810 --> 29:59.890]  To raise the volume, push 5.
[30:00.130 --> 30:01.830]  To lower the volume, push 8.
[30:02.010 --> 30:04.210]  To increase the speed, push 9.
[30:05.110 --> 30:07.210]  Speed has been increased to level 4.
[30:07.350 --> 30:09.030]  Volume is currently at level 3.
[30:09.270 --> 30:11.070]  This is the standard level for the system.
[30:12.510 --> 30:14.450]  Speed has been increased to level 5.
[30:14.610 --> 30:16.110]  Volume is currently at level 3.
[30:16.290 --> 30:17.930]  This is the standard level for the system.
[30:18.950 --> 30:20.750]  Speed has been increased to level 6.
[30:20.930 --> 30:22.210]  Volume is currently at level 3.
[30:22.410 --> 30:23.830]  This is the standard level for the system.
[30:29.310 --> 30:30.310]  Is that great?
[30:41.010 --> 30:46.730]  Now, if I was really nasty, I could leave it this way.
[30:46.930 --> 30:47.150]  Yeah.
[30:47.550 --> 30:48.330]  Let's go back down.
[30:48.490 --> 30:48.950]  How do we go down?
[30:48.950 --> 30:51.030]  It just said...
[30:57.750 --> 30:59.450]  What speed are we at?
[31:02.850 --> 31:04.510]  There you go.
[31:04.730 --> 31:04.910]  No.
[31:05.390 --> 31:06.010]  No.
[31:06.350 --> 31:06.710]  No.
[31:06.910 --> 31:08.390]  We're not going to stop there.
[31:08.390 --> 31:12.430]  Speed has been decreased to level two.
[31:12.790 --> 31:15.250]  Volume is currently at level three.
[31:16.050 --> 31:20.210]  Speed has been decreased to level one.
[31:20.230 --> 31:21.650]  This is for the people who just don't get it.
[31:21.670 --> 31:24.170]  This is the minimum speed for this system.
[31:24.390 --> 31:27.330]  Volume is currently at level three.
[31:27.330 --> 31:28.570]  This is the...
[31:28.570 --> 31:28.850]  Okay.
[31:28.950 --> 31:29.550]  Let's go back.
[31:30.270 --> 31:32.530]  Speed has been increased to level three.
[31:32.930 --> 31:34.150]  This is the standard...
[31:34.150 --> 31:34.610]  Okay.
[31:34.770 --> 31:36.010]  Everything's back to the way it was.
[31:36.230 --> 31:36.790]  I'm sorry.
[31:36.910 --> 31:37.750]  I didn't mean to get in.
[31:37.750 --> 31:41.610]  I was simply demonstrating how you could figure things out.
[31:41.670 --> 31:44.290]  You can find out the name by entering certain keys.
[31:44.290 --> 31:48.250]  Now, keep in mind, this is not real hacking.
[31:48.430 --> 31:51.290]  It's not, you know, figuring out operating systems and using...
[31:51.290 --> 31:52.870]  But it's at least paper bag hacking?
[31:53.050 --> 31:56.330]  It's the best you can do when you're waiting for a bus someplace, you know?
[31:56.470 --> 32:00.350]  The point is, you have to find your hacking abilities wherever you are, you know?
[32:00.410 --> 32:04.530]  If you're at your computer, you can hack things on your computer.
[32:04.530 --> 32:09.930]  If you're at a telephone, you can hack all kinds of things on the telephone network, on the internet.
[32:10.250 --> 32:13.850]  There's a wealth of hacking tools out there where you can play around.
[32:13.990 --> 32:17.710]  And I think so many people have the ability to do this.
[32:17.770 --> 32:19.390]  And so many people have the interest.
[32:20.110 --> 32:20.890]  So it's...
[32:21.370 --> 32:28.030]  I just don't like when people get, you know, all closed about it and say, Well, you know, you're not elite enough.
[32:28.150 --> 32:29.170]  You're not one of us.
[32:29.350 --> 32:29.690]  Wait a second.
[32:30.150 --> 32:32.130]  Is the last name of this guy Coward?
[32:32.130 --> 32:34.410]  Because he makes a lot of posts on that Slashdot place.
[32:34.990 --> 32:35.850]  Oh, anonymous Coward.
[32:35.930 --> 32:36.470]  No, no.
[32:36.690 --> 32:37.250]  Well, I don't know.
[32:37.350 --> 32:39.090]  It's in a newspaper article.
[32:39.370 --> 32:40.010]  Yeah, but I mean...
[32:40.010 --> 32:40.750]  They just said it was anonymous.
[32:41.510 --> 32:42.910]  All right, we must move on.
[32:44.430 --> 32:44.930]  Let's see.
[32:45.010 --> 32:45.490]  Yes, okay.
[32:45.570 --> 32:54.770]  The other story that we have is President Clinton gave the go-ahead to let boaters, motorists, and hikers use a satellite navigation system with the same pinpoint accuracy that the military has long enjoyed.
[32:54.910 --> 32:55.670]  Isaac, what's this all about?
[32:55.670 --> 33:02.710]  He basically decreased the selective availability feature to GPS.
[33:02.930 --> 33:09.730]  GPS supports a couple of different users, basically the civilian side and the military side.
[33:09.730 --> 33:13.210]  And it does this through a couple of different codes and channels and so forth.
[33:14.890 --> 33:23.110]  Channel L1 is for civilian use and its encoding scheme was known as CA, or course acquisition.
[33:23.510 --> 33:26.590]  Course, C-O-A-R-S-E, as in like a broad field.
[33:26.590 --> 33:38.810]  And the general idea behind SA was that you would drop the least significant bits so that a civilian model GPS would only be able to locate you to within, yeah, about 100 meters or so.
[33:39.030 --> 33:44.770]  So it didn't have the accuracy to, you know, target weapons or do all the other stuff that the Defense Department feared you could do.
[33:45.650 --> 33:46.910]  But that's all...
[33:46.910 --> 33:47.870]  That's all gone now.
[33:48.050 --> 33:48.250]  But that's all passed.
[33:48.370 --> 33:48.690]  Yes.
[33:48.810 --> 33:52.330]  Because pieces broken out, they've decided to allow...
[33:52.330 --> 33:52.830]  Well...
[33:54.290 --> 33:59.890]  The intent of SA was to prevent people, you know, adversaries from taking advantage of the system.
[33:59.990 --> 34:03.790]  You know, if they use our own stuff to target stuff at us, it looks kind of bad.
[34:04.250 --> 34:22.890]  But basically what happened was in, say, in operations in Haiti and in Saudi Arabia and so forth, SA was actually throttled back to very near zero or in some instances at zero so that the civilian and military field units were approximately the same so far as their accuracy,
[34:23.050 --> 34:24.190]  which is about 10 meters or so.
[34:25.590 --> 34:34.190]  And that was kind of against the entire intent of SA from the beginning where, you know, we're now in a war scenario and we've given people more information.
[34:35.250 --> 34:42.990]  So it has since been proven that you can, for instance, black out certain regions for GPS data and so forth so it's not considered a threat anymore.
[34:42.990 --> 34:50.970]  So now your CA civilian models have about the same accuracy as the Channel 2, P, and Y code models.
[34:51.090 --> 34:52.430]  So you don't have to get new equipment?
[34:53.310 --> 34:55.290]  Uh, debatable.
[34:55.570 --> 34:55.830]  Uh-huh.
[34:56.410 --> 35:00.050]  I personally am not sure of what the manufacturers are doing for this.
[35:00.910 --> 35:15.590]  But the only difference between the civilian and military frequencies now is the military still has what's known as the Y code, which is an encrypted version of the P code, which allows them to authenticate that, yes, indeed, the data I am receiving is from a Navstar satellite.
[35:15.590 --> 35:16.090]  Uh-huh.
[35:16.210 --> 35:18.030]  So, uh, you can't get spoofed.
[35:18.490 --> 35:27.890]  If you remember that James Bond film where they stole the silly, you know, GPS transceiver and they made the ship drive into Chinese waters and sink and do all kinds of nasty things.
[35:28.050 --> 35:30.350]  And the bad guys turned on each other and started getting greedy and things?
[35:30.450 --> 35:30.630]  Right.
[35:30.670 --> 35:31.130]  Yeah, exactly.
[35:31.290 --> 35:31.550]  I remember that one.
[35:31.550 --> 35:33.410]  We've gone full circle to the James Bond thing.
[35:33.870 --> 35:38.090]  Um, the reason they had to get that little box was so they could have the encrypted Y code.
[35:38.090 --> 35:39.250]  Uh, yeah.
[35:39.530 --> 35:42.350]  But this is, this is a lot of fun now that you can get down to 10 meters.
[35:42.710 --> 35:48.710]  And then with other technologies like, uh, differential GPS, you can actually get it down to within centimeters, which is really cool.
[35:48.890 --> 35:49.510]  That is pretty cool.
[35:49.670 --> 35:49.830]  Yeah.
[35:50.030 --> 35:52.450]  Can you imagine what, uh, you'd need to get down to centimeters for?
[35:53.190 --> 35:53.550]  Well...
[35:53.550 --> 35:56.970]  So you're trying to, like, you know, shoot somebody with a satellite right through their heart or something like that.
[35:56.970 --> 36:00.230]  Think of, like, highway navigation, you know, mapping city streets, stuff like that.
[36:00.230 --> 36:02.810]  Oh, you mean driving 18-wheel trucks without a driver from satellites.
[36:03.030 --> 36:03.450]  Yeah, that's a good idea.
[36:03.450 --> 36:04.230]  Well, not exactly.
[36:04.670 --> 36:07.190]  I would think that that's still a little too coarse.
[36:07.510 --> 36:07.530]  Uh-huh.
[36:07.770 --> 36:12.950]  But, uh, this kind of accuracy is good for, you know, surveying and, and boat locations.
[36:12.950 --> 36:14.270]  Just knowing exactly what we're up to.
[36:14.430 --> 36:15.310]  Just where you are.
[36:15.450 --> 36:15.650]  Uh-huh.
[36:16.470 --> 36:17.290]  Alex is here.
[36:17.510 --> 36:23.090]  And, uh, you've got, uh, you've got kind of a strange court case that might have something to do with, uh, with our court case.
[36:23.090 --> 36:26.450]  Yeah, I think it, uh, actually does have a bit to do with it.
[36:26.730 --> 36:30.810]  I came across it, uh, in all places in, uh, small business computing.
[36:31.370 --> 36:34.710]  One of these, uh, little magazines you probably get from the PCX.
[36:34.850 --> 36:38.290]  But after you swipe your card, you receive a subscription for the rest of your life.
[36:38.490 --> 36:38.650]  Wow.
[36:39.270 --> 36:45.330]  But, um, it's a neat little case about the Utah Lighthouse Ministry located in, of course, Utah.
[36:45.770 --> 36:48.630]  And it has to deal with the Church of Latter-day Saints.
[36:49.070 --> 36:51.130]  And we see their wonderful commercials on TV.
[36:51.870 --> 36:52.310]  Uh...
[36:52.310 --> 36:53.990]  Why do they have commercials for a church?
[36:54.090 --> 36:54.970]  I never could figure that out.
[36:55.550 --> 36:57.270]  Well, I, I, I don't, I don't know.
[36:58.650 --> 37:02.090]  I want to see these, like, comparison, uh, shopping type things, you know?
[37:02.090 --> 37:07.010]  Maybe they're gonna, maybe the, the church is gonna have an IPO and, and, uh...
[37:07.010 --> 37:07.170]  Yeah.
[37:07.170 --> 37:08.830]  And, uh, wanna boost the stock prices or something.
[37:08.990 --> 37:12.210]  But it really stinks of, uh, the old Scientology battle.
[37:12.370 --> 37:12.690]  Oh, boy.
[37:12.730 --> 37:13.170]  Here we go again.
[37:13.230 --> 37:14.570]  Copyright on the internet.
[37:15.090 --> 37:15.270]  Uh-huh.
[37:15.630 --> 37:17.290]  Copyright for, for church issues.
[37:17.530 --> 37:17.930]  Oh, yeah.
[37:18.190 --> 37:18.550]  Absolutely.
[37:18.810 --> 37:18.870]  Okay.
[37:18.870 --> 37:19.410]  This is what it is.
[37:19.770 --> 37:27.990]  Um, so you have the Utah Lighthouse Ministry, which, uh, critiques the Mormon Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Utah.
[37:28.310 --> 37:29.870]  They, uh, very critical of them.
[37:29.990 --> 37:32.630]  And they've been at, uh, loggerheads for quite a while now.
[37:32.630 --> 37:33.930]  They really don't like each other.
[37:34.090 --> 37:35.290]  Don't they have the same Latter-day Saints?
[37:35.610 --> 37:37.090]  Or these different Latter-day Saints?
[37:37.770 --> 37:38.070]  Who?
[37:38.190 --> 37:39.370]  The Utah Lighthouse Ministry?
[37:39.490 --> 37:39.510]  Yeah.
[37:39.570 --> 37:40.770]  Utah Lighthouse Latter-day Saints.
[37:41.130 --> 37:41.970]  They're, no, no, no.
[37:42.030 --> 37:42.450]  They're different.
[37:42.590 --> 37:43.650]  The Utah Lighthouse Ministry.
[37:43.890 --> 37:45.950]  Uh, they just critique the church of Latter-day Saints.
[37:45.970 --> 37:47.950]  Alright, so the Utah Lighthouse doesn't have any Latter-day Saints.
[37:47.950 --> 37:49.530]  No, they don't have any Latter-day Saints.
[37:49.530 --> 37:50.910]  Maybe they think they're all saints anyway.
[37:51.090 --> 37:51.670]  I think so.
[37:51.850 --> 37:54.890]  They're around to educate people.
[37:55.010 --> 37:56.070]  I have no idea what I'm talking about.
[37:56.290 --> 37:56.550]  Okay.
[37:56.650 --> 37:57.430]  Go right ahead.
[37:57.710 --> 38:08.710]  Well, they think that the Mormons, without getting into a big religious debate, that Joseph Smith puts himself above Jesus, and they want to try to tell people that this really isn't mainstream Christianity.
[38:09.190 --> 38:15.390]  So they came across what is called the CHI, or the Church's Handbook of Instructions.
[38:15.390 --> 38:19.170]  They put that on their website, the Utah Lighthouse Ministry, that is.
[38:19.650 --> 38:23.870]  And the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, they found this out.
[38:23.950 --> 38:24.790]  They got really mad.
[38:25.070 --> 38:32.530]  They got a TRO, the temporary restraining order, issued against the Utah Lighthouse Ministry for putting this up.
[38:32.650 --> 38:34.350]  Wait, why didn't they want that up?
[38:34.570 --> 38:36.810]  Well, it's copyrighted, they said.
[38:37.670 --> 38:38.850]  A church book?
[38:39.310 --> 38:39.570]  Yes.
[38:39.890 --> 38:40.590]  It's copyrighted.
[38:40.670 --> 38:42.810]  They don't want people to know their instructions.
[38:43.170 --> 38:44.730]  Can you imagine if they copyright the Bible?
[38:45.390 --> 38:47.150]  Oh my God, the litigation.
[38:47.630 --> 38:48.270]  The insane.
[38:48.370 --> 38:49.730]  They should just translate it back to Latin.
[38:49.810 --> 38:53.830]  Okay, so they say this is copyrighted now, so now you've got two church groups at each other's throats.
[38:53.930 --> 38:54.290]  Exactly.
[38:54.610 --> 38:56.590]  So it's copyrighted, they took it off.
[38:56.950 --> 38:57.290]  Okay.
[38:57.570 --> 39:01.270]  Now this is where the part that I think has relevance to 2600 comes in.
[39:01.270 --> 39:09.870]  So then a couple people wrote in, and they said, they wrote emails in, and they said, well, it's up at this point, and it's up at this point, and it's up here.
[39:10.090 --> 39:19.030]  And so they posted the entirety of the person's mail with the web address of these other places where the church's handbook is located.
[39:19.030 --> 39:21.470]  And they didn't even make them links.
[39:21.470 --> 39:23.030]  It was just actual text.
[39:23.430 --> 39:28.650]  And they were being then brought up on charges of contributory copyright infringement.
[39:28.710 --> 39:29.050]  Oh boy.
[39:29.590 --> 39:37.310]  Simply because they had text on their website that someone could use to get to another site, which had the copyrighted information.
[39:37.310 --> 39:47.450]  Two of these places, they were located in the U.S., and I believe they took their information down from the church's handbook, and the other place was located in Australia.
[39:47.810 --> 39:52.370]  And this guy is pretty adamant about keeping his site up, actually.
[39:52.370 --> 39:54.330]  The church actually threatened him twice.
[39:54.670 --> 39:58.090]  The second threat was to tell him that he shouldn't talk about it.
[39:58.770 --> 40:01.110]  See, at least we don't have any churches after us yet.
[40:01.110 --> 40:01.630]  Not yet.
[40:01.830 --> 40:02.230]  Not yet.
[40:02.390 --> 40:03.270]  We'd be very surprised.
[40:03.270 --> 40:07.130]  I think that might disturb me more than Time Warner and Disney and all the others.
[40:07.310 --> 40:09.030]  But who knows?
[40:09.270 --> 40:09.490]  Wow.
[40:09.670 --> 40:11.410]  So churches are getting in on this now, too.
[40:11.510 --> 40:13.170]  So how have they fared in court?
[40:13.570 --> 40:16.310]  Well, they tried to get it dismissed.
[40:16.710 --> 40:18.470]  And they didn't get it dismissed.
[40:18.670 --> 40:21.730]  Their lawyer seems to be a pretty smart guy.
[40:21.890 --> 40:23.710]  Both lawyers, actually, are pretty smart guys.
[40:24.790 --> 40:35.190]  They tried to get it dismissed on the grounds that the church, they really, all they have is an updated version of their 1989 handbook that's on the web.
[40:35.190 --> 40:39.350]  And the 1989 handbook was never registered with the Office of Copyrights.
[40:39.430 --> 40:45.010]  So when you have an updated version, the law only extends to the initial copyrighted work.
[40:46.570 --> 40:50.630]  But then they claim that not only was it an update, but it was also a compilation.
[40:50.630 --> 40:58.850]  And the way they arrange the different verses and the way they arrange their instructions, I guess, are copyrightable.
[40:58.970 --> 41:08.490]  And the way that these people had it on the web is from the 1998 version, which they did copyright, not the 1989 version, so they sort of finessed their way around the proposal for dismissal.
[41:08.530 --> 41:11.910]  Don't they give these things to their parishioners, memorize or whatever?
[41:12.250 --> 41:13.630]  That's what's very strange about it.
[41:13.650 --> 41:19.750]  They really, what it boils down to is the free speech of the Utah Lighthouse Ministry being restricted because they don't want to be criticized by it.
[41:19.790 --> 41:33.650]  And what I think is, this is, this, what's interesting about fair use is that this really does fall under its auspices because for something to be, to fall under fair use, it can be a number of things.
[41:33.790 --> 41:41.390]  It can be for educational, it can be for universities or hospitals, and it's also for criticism of it.
[41:41.390 --> 41:44.630]  They're criticizing, and this is exactly what they're doing.
[41:44.790 --> 41:52.710]  They're criticizing the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints because they believe that they're contrary to mainstream Christianity and they're being stifled.
[41:54.010 --> 41:55.150]  It's pretty frightening.
[41:55.350 --> 41:56.290]  Yeah, it is pretty frightening.
[41:56.430 --> 42:02.910]  Well, I'm not one to quote scripture on the air, but if anyone wants to send us bits of the forbidden material, we just might have a little gospel hour here or whatever.
[42:04.290 --> 42:05.990]  Well, that's what they should probably do.
[42:05.990 --> 42:11.250]  They should probably do something like you did and have people mirror the Church's handbooks.
[42:11.670 --> 42:13.190]  That's what I think they should do.
[42:13.410 --> 42:17.410]  You know, people from all over the world mirroring it, and then they'll see how ridiculous this is.
[42:19.470 --> 42:23.230]  And the court also isn't quite sure who to sue.
[42:24.530 --> 42:30.170]  They're trying to say that in order for there to be copyright infringement, there has to be a primary infringer.
[42:30.270 --> 42:33.430]  And they're not really sure who the primary infringer is.
[42:33.430 --> 42:37.850]  Is it the people that put up the link, or rather the text that could be used as a link?
[42:37.850 --> 42:39.230]  Is it the people that put up the text?
[42:39.690 --> 42:52.390]  And the judge was actually arguing in the transcript of the case that, well, it could be everybody that views this material because when you download it into your computer, you keep a copy of it in RAM.
[42:52.950 --> 42:58.150]  And since it has initially been transferred over there, you're violating copyright infringement.
[42:58.270 --> 43:01.690]  So if that is what happens, and it's going to send a chilling effect...
[43:01.690 --> 43:02.530]  Listen to the judge.
[43:02.650 --> 43:03.430]  He knows what he's talking about.
[43:04.630 --> 43:06.930]  I'm just finding it rather amusing that, you know...
[43:06.930 --> 43:07.610]  You think it's amusing?
[43:07.630 --> 43:08.250]  A court of law?
[43:08.430 --> 43:08.630]  A judge?
[43:08.710 --> 43:09.310]  You think that's amusing?
[43:09.650 --> 43:11.450]  Say the officer comes knocking at your door.
[43:11.550 --> 43:15.390]  You pull the plug on your computer, and you don't have any evidence of having it still there.
[43:15.510 --> 43:16.690]  The RAM is still in the air.
[43:16.850 --> 43:17.330]  It's there.
[43:17.390 --> 43:18.050]  It's floating around.
[43:18.230 --> 43:18.970]  It's all over.
[43:19.190 --> 43:20.710]  You can catch it with a butterfly net.
[43:20.850 --> 43:21.030]  Yeah.
[43:21.210 --> 43:21.450]  Okay.
[43:21.610 --> 43:24.090]  And now they can stop you from going into your house and erasing it.
[43:24.090 --> 43:35.130]  So interesting development, kind of related to that, happened on, I think it was Friday, when the New York Times put out an article concerning the whole DVD case.
[43:35.410 --> 43:35.830]  That's true.
[43:35.930 --> 43:36.950]  That also has relevance.
[43:37.230 --> 43:37.370]  Yeah.
[43:37.950 --> 43:49.090]  The Salt Lake City Tribune published an article about this whole Utah Lighthouse Ministry church battle, and they actually included the links, or rather, I'm sorry, not the links.
[43:49.190 --> 43:56.750]  They are not links in a newspaper, but the actual web addresses of the other sites that contain the church's handbook.
[43:57.330 --> 44:03.050]  And then the Church of Jesus Christ Latter-day Saints said, that's okay, we're not going to prosecute you.
[44:03.410 --> 44:06.890]  That was a little bit of a selective prosecution.
[44:07.050 --> 44:11.290]  In the story in the New York Times, it wasn't actually in the printed edition, it was in the electronic edition.
[44:12.170 --> 44:18.630]  Basically, they quoted our lawyer, Martin Garbus, as saying that, you know, the New York Times could do exactly this.
[44:18.770 --> 44:27.250]  They could point to where we have the links on our web page, and by doing that, they could be charged just as easily.
[44:27.450 --> 44:27.970]  And you know what?
[44:28.050 --> 44:28.550]  They did it.
[44:29.090 --> 44:29.810]  It was amazing.
[44:29.870 --> 44:31.750]  At the bottom of the article, there's this link.
[44:31.750 --> 44:32.730]  Oh, by the way, here's the link.
[44:32.850 --> 44:33.030]  Yeah.
[44:33.270 --> 44:38.670]  So it's like, to me, that's a statement from the New York Times saying, we're going to do this because we're allowed to do this.
[44:38.810 --> 44:40.870]  And I thought that was a very significant development.
[44:40.870 --> 44:41.690]  Yeah, it definitely is.
[44:41.790 --> 44:43.670]  Where do you draw the line, though?
[44:43.730 --> 44:50.890]  I mean, is it somebody who links to somebody who links to somebody who links to somebody who can be considered as engaging in contributory copyright infringement?
[44:51.070 --> 44:51.690]  Who knows?
[44:51.890 --> 44:58.290]  There's all kinds of ideas for other ways to get the code out there.
[44:58.690 --> 45:04.270]  I had a great idea for a validity stunt, according to this listener, when I projected the ECSS source code onto an MPAA building.
[45:04.490 --> 45:08.250]  It would attract a lot of media attention to your cause, and plus it would be really funny.
[45:09.090 --> 45:14.430]  Another person, during the conference, you could set up a scrolling electronic message board and scroll the code for the whole afternoon.
[45:14.470 --> 45:16.470]  Someone would have to write really fast to get a copy.
[45:16.950 --> 45:24.350]  You could also distribute the code online via a web page hidden as a meta tag or something which wouldn't be displayed unless the source code was viewed but is still transferable.
[45:24.430 --> 45:26.090]  There's many, many ways you can do these kind of things.
[45:26.090 --> 45:32.670]  Well, this is all considered trafficking, and it's not something you can engage in unless you feel like sitting in an 8x8 cubicle nice place.
[45:32.670 --> 45:34.630]  What, do you think we shouldn't be projecting it onto buildings?
[45:34.970 --> 45:36.310]  You think that's skywriting?
[45:36.530 --> 45:38.010]  I think that's pretty neat.
[45:38.170 --> 45:39.210]  It's an interesting idea.
[45:39.410 --> 45:40.230]  Yeah, it's an interesting idea.
[45:40.410 --> 45:42.870]  But just realize what the repercussions may be.
[45:43.250 --> 45:47.470]  Well, I think, you know, you've got to sort of take on the repercussions occasionally when something is unfair.
[45:48.030 --> 45:52.190]  I think everyone realizes what the repercussions are because they see the repercussions happening to us.
[45:52.770 --> 45:56.230]  And they're still with us, which I think is admirable.
[45:58.310 --> 46:05.810]  Okay, we have Red Balaclava here, who has a very quick MetroCard tip or update for us.
[46:05.910 --> 46:08.450]  Yeah, just a couple of quick things.
[46:08.570 --> 46:13.610]  This may be my last appearance for people who aren't up on the life in the subways.
[46:14.210 --> 46:15.310]  The heat is on.
[46:15.510 --> 46:17.290]  I'll give you a quick synopsis of why.
[46:17.430 --> 46:28.370]  Apparently somebody was arrested, a railroad clerk slash station agent, in late March for stealing $300,000 by turning on a computer he shouldn't have turned on and coding cards and stealing them.
[46:28.590 --> 46:30.010]  And they've been cracking down.
[46:30.290 --> 46:32.090]  And one of the things they've been doing...
[46:32.090 --> 46:36.230]  I don't know if anybody drops money or MetroCards, but people often do.
[46:36.810 --> 46:44.690]  And it's always been like pulling teeth to get a MetroCard back if you drop it into the discard bin by the passenger information unit, the freestanding readers.
[46:45.090 --> 46:46.170]  Wait, why would you do that?
[46:46.290 --> 46:47.210]  Unless you wanted to discard it?
[46:47.210 --> 46:48.110]  You're a little lame.
[46:48.110 --> 46:49.630]  You go to check.
[46:49.630 --> 46:50.950]  You've got three or four cards.
[46:51.130 --> 46:52.130]  Some have nothing on them.
[46:52.150 --> 46:53.090]  Some you've just bought.
[46:53.290 --> 46:59.090]  And you accidentally put the one you just bought with $15 or 60, 30 days on it into the discard bin.
[47:00.570 --> 47:06.590]  Well, originally you could go back to the booth and the guy might hop out and open it up for you or he'd have the cleaner do that.
[47:06.750 --> 47:10.630]  And then they insisted that a supervisor come and do it, so it would take a couple hours.
[47:11.330 --> 47:32.750]  Now what they're doing to keep other malfactors, employees who shouldn't dig in there or homeless people who break into these boxes, from getting profits, and may I say that also it enables the TA to essentially eat whatever money is on there and hang on to it rather than have the consumer who paid for it hang on to it.
[47:32.910 --> 47:38.530]  They're putting powerful magnets in these things to totally wipe the MetroCards that end up in them.
[47:39.930 --> 47:42.490]  So, uh, passenger beware.
[47:42.750 --> 47:49.050]  If you, uh, swipe your MetroCard near a passenger information unit, don't put it in the damn box.
[47:49.190 --> 47:53.370]  And don't put anything else in that box that you'd like to lose either because it would wipe anything electronically.
[47:53.550 --> 47:55.590]  It, uh, does an incredible job on the MetroCards.
[47:55.690 --> 48:00.070]  In fact, many of them not only aren't, aren't, are wiped the information off, but they're wiped totally.
[48:00.230 --> 48:01.550]  They don't even register as MetroCards.
[48:01.710 --> 48:03.690]  You have something a little juicier for us than that, don't you?
[48:04.930 --> 48:05.290]  Uh...
[48:05.290 --> 48:08.230]  Don't drop your MetroCard in a trash bin, basically, is what you're telling us?
[48:08.910 --> 48:09.310]  Don't...
[48:09.310 --> 48:10.270]  Something, something else?
[48:10.450 --> 48:11.310]  Big scandal?
[48:11.490 --> 48:11.650]  Nothing?
[48:11.870 --> 48:12.550]  No, there's...
[48:12.550 --> 48:13.590]  No, not yet.
[48:14.010 --> 48:18.110]  They've arrested a number of people for, believe it or not, digging in the garbage and picking out MetroCards.
[48:18.310 --> 48:18.710]  Employees.
[48:18.990 --> 48:19.250]  Really?
[48:19.530 --> 48:19.770]  Really.
[48:19.930 --> 48:20.470]  That's interesting.
[48:20.650 --> 48:21.210]  That's interesting.
[48:21.390 --> 48:23.530]  They would actually go that far to arrest people for that.
[48:23.710 --> 48:25.070]  It's amazing, but it's true.
[48:25.250 --> 48:28.630]  That's why I'm laying low and probably won't be at Hope, I hate to say.
[48:29.490 --> 48:32.530]  Well, maybe you can be there as somebody else this time.
[48:32.870 --> 48:33.270]  I...
[48:33.270 --> 48:33.610]  Maybe.
[48:33.850 --> 48:35.330]  You're a man of a thousand disguises.
[48:35.530 --> 48:36.370]  I've been told that.
[48:37.170 --> 48:37.690]  All right.
[48:38.010 --> 48:38.450]  Uh, two and two.
[48:38.450 --> 48:40.270]  Two zero nine two nine hundred is our phone number.
[48:40.390 --> 48:41.050]  Isaac, you look puzzled.
[48:41.210 --> 48:42.190]  Yeah, how powerful is this magnet?
[48:42.630 --> 48:43.230]  Is it like...
[48:43.230 --> 48:45.470]  Does it affect something outside the box?
[48:45.610 --> 48:46.290]  I have...
[48:46.290 --> 48:48.890]  I haven't really examined this closely enough.
[48:49.090 --> 48:52.590]  I've only, uh, come across, uh, these things for the past week.
[48:52.970 --> 48:54.890]  But, uh, it's a field of endeavor.
[48:55.190 --> 48:55.390]  Okay.
[48:55.490 --> 48:58.230]  Well, I'm concerned about a floppy disk, which I may have in my pocket.
[48:58.530 --> 48:59.730]  And then, on the other hand...
[48:59.730 --> 49:00.710]  Well, don't stick it in the thing.
[49:00.790 --> 49:01.070]  I mean...
[49:01.070 --> 49:04.910]  Well, I'm not going to stick it in the thing, but if I'm walking past and checking my magic card, it erases my floppy disk.
[49:04.990 --> 49:05.550]  Can I sue the TA?
[49:05.690 --> 49:06.450]  That's not what happens.
[49:06.450 --> 49:07.910]  You have to put it into the box.
[49:08.050 --> 49:08.170]  Okay.
[49:08.170 --> 49:11.250]  You have to put it into the little trash bin, which I don't understand why people would do that in the first place.
[49:11.270 --> 49:12.670]  Most people just throw them onto the tracks.
[49:12.950 --> 49:13.110]  All right.
[49:13.170 --> 49:23.090]  Well, that's kind of disappointing, then, because my other thought was I could, like, buy a little box of paperclips for 40 cents or something, and as I'm waiting for the train, just sit there and throw them at the box and watch them stick.
[49:23.310 --> 49:23.970]  Where are these boxes?
[49:24.190 --> 49:24.890]  Aren't they by the...
[49:24.890 --> 49:26.650]  Usually near the booths.
[49:26.850 --> 49:27.030]  Uh-huh.
[49:27.910 --> 49:35.190]  You know, another thing, and this is just between us guys, lots of times, if you check the little coin return thing by those turnstiles, you'll find tokens in there.
[49:35.310 --> 49:35.890]  That's true, too.
[49:36.030 --> 49:38.870]  And if you check coin returns and pay phones, they're good, too.
[49:39.010 --> 49:39.730]  Those, too, yeah.
[49:39.990 --> 49:40.030]  Yeah.
[49:40.150 --> 49:41.690]  And they haven't been demagnetized, and they still work.
[49:41.710 --> 49:42.630]  A lot of people miss coins.
[49:42.790 --> 49:45.990]  The phone company doesn't get you arrested for taking the coins out of that yet.
[49:45.990 --> 49:47.450]  But only because they can't.
[49:47.990 --> 49:50.190]  They haven't figured out a way to, but believe me, they want to.
[49:50.770 --> 49:51.850]  A very quick update.
[49:51.850 --> 50:02.790]  As many of you have probably read, Kevin Mitnick has been prevented from speaking, taking part in conferences, writing, all kinds of horrible things like that.
[50:02.790 --> 50:10.330]  It's a real amazing story, and we're probably going to have Kevin on next week to talk about it and give us a first-hand view.
[50:10.330 --> 50:11.770]  Hopefully he's allowed to do that.
[50:11.770 --> 50:12.570]  I don't know.
[50:12.730 --> 50:15.310]  I don't know just what kind of restrictions they have.
[50:15.310 --> 50:17.070]  The restrictions are just unbelievable.
[50:17.410 --> 50:21.150]  I mean, we saw a hint of them when he first got out, but now they're really clamping down.
[50:21.290 --> 50:32.130]  And I just think it's repulsive that they would actually say, okay, please testify for us in front of Congress, and then prevent him from talking to anybody else.
[50:32.150 --> 50:33.470]  I think that's really sleazy.
[50:33.650 --> 50:34.030]  It's horrible.
[50:34.030 --> 50:38.430]  So we'll be bringing you more updates on that probably next week.
[50:39.250 --> 50:40.530]  212-209-2900.
[50:40.610 --> 50:41.710]  Let's go to the phones.
[50:42.390 --> 50:42.770]  Good evening.
[50:42.890 --> 50:43.310]  You're on the air.
[50:44.650 --> 50:45.410]  Speak up, please.
[50:45.890 --> 50:46.110]  Hello.
[50:46.490 --> 50:47.110]  Yes, go ahead.
[50:47.430 --> 50:47.950]  How are you doing?
[50:48.230 --> 50:48.470]  Okay.
[50:48.490 --> 50:48.770]  How are you?
[50:48.770 --> 50:49.470]  All right.
[50:49.610 --> 50:58.850]  I was just calling to say, you know, I definitely am all for you guys on your fight with the MPAA and your fight with Kevin.
[50:59.030 --> 51:00.250]  I think it's really great what you guys are doing.
[51:00.570 --> 51:02.190]  You know, I've been in computers for a long time.
[51:02.190 --> 51:08.490]  I've seen a lot of young people and even older people like Kevin who have gotten their civil rights stepped on.
[51:08.490 --> 51:14.910]  And I think, you know, if more people like you guys are out there, you'll get, definitely get things done.
[51:15.090 --> 51:15.430]  Well, thanks.
[51:15.490 --> 51:16.690]  We need people like you out there, too.
[51:16.890 --> 51:17.290]  Oh, yeah.
[51:17.690 --> 51:17.930]  Okay.
[51:18.090 --> 51:18.350]  Thanks.
[51:18.450 --> 51:18.930]  Thanks for calling.
[51:19.150 --> 51:19.370]  Bye-bye.
[51:20.750 --> 51:21.810]  There's a lot of people out there.
[51:21.850 --> 51:22.350]  You know that, right?
[51:22.730 --> 51:23.070]  Oh, yeah.
[51:23.250 --> 51:23.570]  Yeah.
[51:23.750 --> 51:26.230]  It's good to run into them and see them.
[51:26.410 --> 51:28.690]  By the way, 2600 meetings this Friday.
[51:28.970 --> 51:30.810]  Maybe we'll see you there in New York.
[51:31.030 --> 51:31.410]  Oh, yeah.
[51:31.510 --> 51:32.090]  City Court Building.
[51:32.170 --> 51:33.010]  Yeah, it came up again.
[51:33.110 --> 51:33.510]  Isn't that something?
[51:33.870 --> 51:38.190]  City Court Building, 53rd, Lexington Avenue, between 5 and 8 p.m.
[51:38.190 --> 51:40.370]  and all kinds of other places around the world.
[51:40.610 --> 51:41.890]  Same basic time.
[51:42.910 --> 51:49.050]  And go to www.2600.com slash meetings and find out where the one nearest you is.
[51:49.190 --> 51:53.750]  And, of course, H2K coming up in July.
[51:53.950 --> 51:55.030]  I'm spaced, sorry.
[51:55.350 --> 52:06.890]  July 14th through 16th, H2K, the third HOPE conference here in New York, the Hotel Pennsylvania, Jello Biafra, who Isaac knows well, will be giving the keynote address.
[52:07.490 --> 52:10.430]  We also have a lot of other interesting things planned.
[52:10.610 --> 52:12.690]  Check www.h2k.net.
[52:12.810 --> 52:16.850]  There's going to be at least one interesting thing announced this week, and we'd like some participation in that.
[52:17.130 --> 52:19.230]  So keep checking that.
[52:20.930 --> 52:23.090]  Trenton Computer Fair is this weekend.
[52:23.190 --> 52:23.410]  You know what?
[52:23.430 --> 52:24.150]  I'm not going to be able to make it.
[52:24.710 --> 52:29.790]  Too busy working on the damn film, which we're hoping to have finished for H2K so we can premiere it there.
[52:30.130 --> 52:34.150]  But I'll tell you, it's like giving birth for two years straight.
[52:34.150 --> 52:37.730]  You know, just every single moment of the day is taken up by this.
[52:37.970 --> 52:38.610]  Welcome to production.
[52:38.930 --> 52:40.690]  Yeah, I'll be happy to get it over with.
[52:42.150 --> 52:45.630]  If people out there want to help, there are various ways you can help us with our production.
[52:46.050 --> 52:52.510]  Not so much sitting down in front of the machine and editing, but helping us find certain things that we're going to use in the production.
[52:52.670 --> 52:56.170]  One of which, I might add, we need a good picture of John Markoff.
[52:56.410 --> 52:57.550]  Does anybody out there have a good...
[52:57.550 --> 52:59.490]  I mean, you know, there are lots of pictures of John Markoff.
[52:59.550 --> 53:01.030]  We need a good picture of John Markoff.
[53:01.030 --> 53:02.150]  Define good.
[53:02.430 --> 53:05.350]  Well, one with a nice smile on his face.
[53:05.470 --> 53:06.010]  Let's put it that way.
[53:06.710 --> 53:13.010]  But if you'd like to help us with that, again, email us, OTH at 2600.com.
[53:13.550 --> 53:17.750]  And there's all kinds of other things, too, that we need to track down.
[53:17.930 --> 53:20.430]  It's just things to fill in the film.
[53:20.730 --> 53:27.770]  We're finishing up the production and we need to get pictures of various things, slogans, logos, other things like that.
[53:27.910 --> 53:29.010]  Have you tried asking him?
[53:29.550 --> 53:30.470]  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[53:30.470 --> 53:33.330]  He may send you a signed, you know, publicity photo.
[53:33.570 --> 53:34.370]  Yeah, we don't want that one.
[53:34.510 --> 53:35.710]  We want the better ones.
[53:35.830 --> 53:36.250]  You want the better ones.
[53:36.250 --> 53:36.450]  Yeah.
[53:37.250 --> 53:37.690]  I see.
[53:37.810 --> 53:37.950]  Yeah.
[53:38.390 --> 53:38.730]  All right.
[53:40.150 --> 53:41.290]  212-209-2900.
[53:41.510 --> 53:41.990]  Good evening.
[53:42.110 --> 53:42.530]  You're on the air.
[53:43.330 --> 53:43.530]  Hello?
[53:43.750 --> 53:44.250]  Yes, go ahead.
[53:45.750 --> 53:50.630]  I just want to see that the 2600 meetings are going to be in the days of planetary alignment.
[53:51.970 --> 53:53.430]  When all the planets will line up.
[53:53.570 --> 53:53.910]  Wait a minute.
[53:54.130 --> 53:54.870]  All the planets?
[53:55.050 --> 53:55.890]  Well, not all the planets.
[53:56.010 --> 53:57.790]  Like five or four of them.
[54:00.890 --> 54:01.250]  Okay.
[54:01.370 --> 54:04.730]  But if you look outside in the sky, will you see them lined up?
[54:05.430 --> 54:06.710]  Probably if it's not cloudy.
[54:07.070 --> 54:07.290]  Okay.
[54:07.370 --> 54:07.830]  Yeah, obviously.
[54:08.010 --> 54:08.590]  And if it's nighttime.
[54:09.150 --> 54:10.490]  Are you sure you're not a year too early?
[54:11.110 --> 54:11.490]  No.
[54:11.490 --> 54:12.790]  It's going to be this year.
[54:13.310 --> 54:13.890]  This Friday.
[54:13.990 --> 54:14.190]  Friday.
[54:15.270 --> 54:15.670]  Okay.
[54:15.950 --> 54:18.030]  Well, we're all going to run outside and take a look at that.
[54:18.150 --> 54:18.330]  Thanks.
[54:18.390 --> 54:19.170]  Thanks for the update.
[54:19.550 --> 54:23.050]  We'll be looking forward to the collapse of the city core building caused by this.
[54:23.050 --> 54:26.890]  I hope it doesn't affect the MetroCard demagnetization.
[54:28.890 --> 54:29.290]  Yeah.
[54:29.770 --> 54:30.270]  Good evening.
[54:30.350 --> 54:30.850]  You're on the air.
[54:31.630 --> 54:31.910]  Yeah.
[54:32.630 --> 54:33.890]  I got an idea.
[54:34.130 --> 54:34.350]  Okay.
[54:34.750 --> 54:36.710]  Why don't you hook Isaac up with Napster?
[54:37.570 --> 54:39.470]  How do I hook Isaac up with Napster?
[54:40.450 --> 54:42.310]  Maybe he can learn a little bit about music.
[54:42.690 --> 54:43.250]  You mean...
[54:43.250 --> 54:44.510]  Oh, that's true.
[54:45.270 --> 54:45.530]  Yes.
[54:45.550 --> 54:48.370]  You know, if you had Napster, you would know who Jell-O Biafra was.
[54:48.710 --> 54:48.930]  Okay.
[54:48.950 --> 54:49.930]  That's a very good point.
[54:50.270 --> 54:51.150]  Well, I would need a guide.
[54:51.330 --> 54:52.410]  I've never used Napster.
[54:52.410 --> 54:52.890]  Okay.
[54:53.270 --> 54:54.230]  We're going to get you through this.
[54:54.410 --> 54:54.890]  It's simple.
[54:55.230 --> 54:55.470]  All right.
[54:55.470 --> 54:58.410]  It's not too late to add your name to the many thousands of people that Metallica...
[54:58.410 --> 54:58.890]  That's wonderful.
[54:59.010 --> 54:59.690]  That's all I need.
[55:02.470 --> 55:03.070]  Anything else?
[55:04.370 --> 55:04.690]  Okay.
[55:04.710 --> 55:05.070]  I guess not.
[55:05.830 --> 55:06.870]  Sounds like you had something else to say.
[55:06.950 --> 55:07.190]  Good evening.
[55:07.250 --> 55:07.710]  You're on the air.
[55:09.950 --> 55:10.270]  Yeah.
[55:10.370 --> 55:10.750]  I'd like...
[55:10.750 --> 55:10.990]  Hello.
[55:11.310 --> 55:11.730]  Go ahead.
[55:11.990 --> 55:13.190]  I'd like to ask you about GPS.
[55:14.030 --> 55:15.010]  Well, what is GPS?
[55:15.630 --> 55:17.090]  GPS, the Global Positioning System.
[55:17.190 --> 55:17.430]  Okay.
[55:17.490 --> 55:17.950]  Next question.
[55:18.330 --> 55:18.890]  Good evening.
[55:19.090 --> 55:19.690]  You're on the air.
[55:20.990 --> 55:21.510]  Go ahead.
[55:21.750 --> 55:21.990]  Yeah.
[55:23.850 --> 55:24.750]  I sort of...
[55:24.750 --> 55:27.670]  I have a browser, and what I want to do is I don't want to be tracked.
[55:27.890 --> 55:29.050]  And so I downloaded...
[55:29.050 --> 55:32.710]  I have a Netscape browser, and I downloaded this thing called Fortify.
[55:33.010 --> 55:37.330]  And then I just went to go on Amazon.com, and I said, well, they recognize my name.
[55:37.330 --> 55:39.430]  Well, Fortify does something you...
[55:39.430 --> 55:41.390]  Well, it does something different than what you think it does.
[55:42.470 --> 55:48.630]  Back before all these export restrictions were lifted, which, by the way, the EU lifted a whole bunch of other export restrictions.
[55:49.010 --> 55:53.110]  They're now, like, completely free to all the EU countries and about eight other countries.
[55:53.110 --> 55:54.850]  So there's, like, no restrictions at all.
[55:55.070 --> 56:08.570]  Anyway, to go back to what I was saying about four seconds ago, Fortify, what it does is it would take an export-grade encrypted browser at 40 bits and make it the domestic-grade 128-bit encryption.
[56:09.530 --> 56:14.690]  It's basically something that has to do with the secure socket layer and the kind of transactions.
[56:14.690 --> 56:17.310]  You know where it pops up and says, you're about to enter a secure website.
[56:17.450 --> 56:17.910]  Yeah, you're...
[56:17.910 --> 56:19.770]  And a little key on the bottom lights up or whatever.
[56:20.130 --> 56:21.070]  That's what that does.
[56:21.390 --> 56:26.150]  So far as anonymous web browsing, you're probably going to have to look at a service like Anonymizer.
[56:26.490 --> 56:30.270]  You're going to want to look at Zero Knowledge Systems Freedom.
[56:31.130 --> 56:32.730]  Zero Knowledge Systems Freedom?
[56:33.090 --> 56:33.370]  Yeah.
[56:33.530 --> 56:41.370]  Well, Zero Knowledge Systems is the company, and they have a product called Freedom, which does more than just web, like FTP, and it's a whole network anonymity.
[56:41.370 --> 56:43.870]  And, you know, there should be a lot more services like Anonymizer.
[56:43.870 --> 56:48.470]  I know everybody goes to Anonymizer, and they always surf for free, and get an account there.
[56:48.550 --> 56:56.490]  Get an account on a bunch of them, and actually start using them, and start offering them to other people, because anonymous web browsing is not a privilege, it's a right.
[56:56.650 --> 57:00.990]  It's something you should be able to do any time you want, without being tracked constantly.
[57:00.990 --> 57:04.390]  If you're willing to deal with it, I wouldn't say it's a right.
[57:04.870 --> 57:05.550]  It's a right.
[57:05.650 --> 57:06.730]  It's a right to be anonymous.
[57:07.010 --> 57:07.910]  I think it's a right to be anonymous.
[57:08.150 --> 57:19.850]  Well, just be careful that you're not doing anything particularly stupid, because these guys, the Anonymizer has had a couple of, not warrant, subpoenas served on it, for log files and so forth, which they've had to produce.
[57:20.630 --> 57:21.310]  So, I mean...
[57:21.310 --> 57:22.670]  Why keep the log files?
[57:22.790 --> 57:23.450]  That's what I don't understand.
[57:23.450 --> 57:24.930]  Why is it even necessary to keep log files?
[57:25.270 --> 57:26.110]  Don't look at me.
[57:26.330 --> 57:26.630]  All right.
[57:26.690 --> 57:30.270]  Well, we can always run our own and not keep log files.
[57:30.430 --> 57:30.710]  Yes.
[57:31.190 --> 57:31.230]  All right.
[57:31.270 --> 57:32.530]  Let's squeeze in a couple more.
[57:32.590 --> 57:32.850]  Good evening.
[57:32.910 --> 57:33.310]  You're on the air.
[57:35.630 --> 57:40.770]  ZDTV.net just ran a little thing about DCSS, and it's pretty funny.
[57:41.430 --> 57:47.590]  For one, they got the legal thing incorrect, but more surprisingly, got the technical part incorrect.
[57:49.050 --> 58:00.170]  For one, they said the CSS scrambling system hindered unauthorized copying, but I believe it only hindered playback.
[58:00.570 --> 58:00.770]  Correct.
[58:00.770 --> 58:07.810]  Yeah, you could copy an encrypted... I mean, it's an encrypted file, you could copy it easily, and any DVD player would decrypt it.
[58:07.890 --> 58:09.110]  I mean, it's a very simple concept.
[58:09.290 --> 58:10.330]  I don't know why they got it wrong yet again.
[58:10.330 --> 58:11.690]  You don't have to decrypt it to copy it.
[58:12.010 --> 58:12.590]  And, uh...
[58:12.590 --> 58:12.910]  Exactly.
[58:12.930 --> 58:13.470]  That's what I just said.
[58:13.470 --> 58:14.530]  You don't have to decrypt it.
[58:14.530 --> 58:16.470]  You can copy it and then decrypt it when you play it back.
[58:16.570 --> 58:17.330]  That's when you decrypt it.
[58:17.370 --> 58:17.370]  Exactly.
[58:17.710 --> 58:26.970]  And also, uh, device brought it to my attention that ZDTV linked to a DCSS-type program, and they aren't being sued.
[58:26.970 --> 58:29.810]  It was on the screensaver section, apparently.
[58:29.810 --> 58:30.470]  Uh-huh.
[58:30.870 --> 58:34.750]  And, uh, I haven't heard anything from the MPAA about that.
[58:34.770 --> 58:41.970]  Well, ABC has a controlling interest in ZD, and of course, ABC is owned by Disney, and of course, Disney is suing us, so go figure.
[58:42.190 --> 58:44.190]  Actually, that's an interesting thing to bring up.
[58:44.550 --> 58:49.210]  At some point in the past, we were talking about a network that was going to partner with the New York Times.
[58:49.890 --> 58:50.130]  Uh-huh.
[58:50.250 --> 58:51.310]  Does anyone remember who that was?
[58:51.310 --> 58:51.730]  Who was that?
[58:51.790 --> 58:52.590]  Was that MSNBC?
[58:52.910 --> 58:53.650]  No, MSN...
[58:53.650 --> 58:54.170]  Was it CNN?
[58:54.370 --> 58:57.070]  Microsoft and NBC were their, like, two-part thing.
[58:57.170 --> 58:58.650]  Okay, we only have 30 seconds, but who was it?
[58:58.730 --> 58:59.230]  I don't recall.
[58:59.310 --> 58:59.430]  Oh.
[58:59.710 --> 59:00.270]  I'm asking.
[59:00.450 --> 59:00.550]  Oh, okay.
[59:00.550 --> 59:01.670]  Does anyone remember who it was?
[59:01.770 --> 59:02.250]  Because that'd be...
[59:02.250 --> 59:12.050]  Yeah, that would be interesting, because, well, if they didn't partner up, then I guess we don't really have anything interesting, but if you can draw a link between New York Times and, say, one of the people suing us, that would definitely be interesting.
[59:12.530 --> 59:13.270]  Hey, we're out of time.
[59:13.350 --> 59:13.770]  Thanks for the call.
[59:21.310 --> 59:23.670]  Telling us about the various horrible things happening.
[59:23.830 --> 59:24.130]  Yes, Isaac.
[59:24.230 --> 59:29.690]  Oh, congratulations to BAM for her promotion, quote-unquote promotion, from D-Dernza to Suslo.
[59:30.130 --> 59:31.650]  What the hell is that supposed to mean?
[59:33.030 --> 59:41.670]  Barbara McNamara was promoted from the Deputy Director of the National Security Agency to the Special United States Liaison Officer to the UK.
[59:42.390 --> 59:43.630]  And she's listening now.
[59:43.810 --> 59:45.310]  I don't know, but maybe she is.
[59:45.490 --> 59:46.790]  So, congratulations, Barbara.
[59:46.990 --> 59:48.090]  Yeah, drop us a postcard.
[59:48.110 --> 59:48.150]  Way to go, BAM.
[59:48.910 --> 59:49.790]  See you next week.
[01:00:43.320 --> 01:00:46.660]  Poverty of extreme unemployment.
[01:00:47.120 --> 01:00:48.720]  April 29th.