[00:01.100 --> 00:02.740]  30 p.m.
[00:02.980 --> 00:05.280]  aboard the Half Moon boat cruise ship.
[00:05.850 --> 00:10.570]  Call 212-631-3617.
[00:10.880 --> 00:18.030]  212-631-3617 for reservations and ticket locations.
[00:18.420 --> 00:21.940]  Or log online to liquidsoundlounge.com.
[00:22.040 --> 00:24.620]  That's liquidsoundlounge.com.
[00:24.740 --> 00:27.460]  Don't miss the phone!
[00:33.100 --> 00:36.640]  And it's just about 8 o'clock here on WBAI in New York.
[00:36.640 --> 00:39.380]  Time for Off the Hook.
[01:04.860 --> 01:05.460]  And it's about
[01:36.430 --> 01:43.690]  8 o'clock here on WBAI in New York.
[01:45.150 --> 02:07.110]  And it's about 8 o'clock here on WBAI in New York.
[02:07.110 --> 02:12.370]  Ooh-wee, ooh-wee, ooh-wee.
[02:12.450 --> 02:14.930]  Bad boy's gone to jail.
[02:16.350 --> 02:18.910]  Bad boy's gone to jail.
[02:20.310 --> 02:22.450]  Look at you, boy.
[02:22.650 --> 02:27.650]  You come on age, and now you're going around, saying you're a bad
[02:41.600 --> 02:42.320]  boy.
[02:42.320 --> 02:43.800]  Got to believe me.
[02:44.100 --> 02:49.120]  Oh, bad boy, here is how you felt.
[02:49.760 --> 02:51.280]  Got to believe me one time.
[02:52.320 --> 02:56.220]  You went to town just to fool around.
[02:56.580 --> 03:00.320]  You met a girl who was wearing a frown.
[03:00.620 --> 03:04.140]  You're going around, boasted, feeling bad.
[03:04.140 --> 03:06.200]  Now you're sitting in jail.
[03:06.440 --> 03:08.400]  Don't you feel so sad?
[03:09.300 --> 03:12.660]  Ooh-wee, ooh-wee.
[03:12.880 --> 03:16.600]  Ooh-wee, ooh-wee.
[03:16.940 --> 03:19.140]  Bad boy's gone to jail.
[03:21.030 --> 03:23.240]  Bad boy's gone to jail.
[03:25.220 --> 03:28.700]  Ooh-wee, ooh-wee.
[03:29.020 --> 03:32.680]  Ooh-wee, ooh-wee.
[03:32.680 --> 03:35.560]  Bad boy's gone to jail.
[03:37.060 --> 03:39.460]  Bad boy's gone to jail.
[03:49.000 --> 03:49.520]  Bad boy's gone to jail.
[03:49.520 --> 03:49.960]  Ooh-wee, ooh-wee.
[03:49.960 --> 03:53.560]  I was telling you, boy, the good boy who's gone to jail, and he could've never ever get no way, no.
[03:53.920 --> 03:54.400]  Wow!
[03:55.140 --> 03:55.660]  Yes!
[03:57.100 --> 03:58.920]  Look at you, boy.
[03:59.140 --> 04:04.580]  You come on age, and now you're going around, saying you're a bad boy.
[04:04.580 --> 04:12.210]  You say that you'll never go bad, and you cannot fail.
[04:12.920 --> 04:14.110]  Oh, bad boy.
[04:16.440 --> 04:18.920]  Oh, bad boy.
[04:20.540 --> 04:21.780]  Oh, bad boy.
[04:21.780 --> 04:22.920]  Oh, bad boy.
[04:23.240 --> 04:23.660]  Oh, bad boy.
[04:23.660 --> 04:25.660]  Here is how you fell.
[04:37.450 --> 04:38.610]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[04:39.090 --> 04:42.630]  Don't Daniel bring each and every single day what you don't understand?
[04:43.230 --> 04:43.650]  Yeah!
[04:44.790 --> 04:48.730]  You went to town just to fool around.
[04:49.050 --> 04:52.770]  You met a girl who was wearing a frown.
[04:53.130 --> 04:56.650]  You're going around mostly feeling bad.
[04:56.930 --> 05:00.730]  Now you're sitting in jail, don't you feel so sad?
[05:01.610 --> 05:05.110]  Ooh-wee, ooh-wee.
[05:05.470 --> 05:08.870]  Ooh-wee, ooh-wee.
[05:08.890 --> 05:09.630]  I was telling you.
[05:09.630 --> 05:11.410]  Bad boy's gone to jail.
[05:11.870 --> 05:12.810]  Bad boy's gone to jail.
[05:12.810 --> 05:13.170]  Bad boy's gone to jail.
[05:13.170 --> 05:15.470]  Bad boy's gone to jail.
[05:25.230 --> 05:27.490]  Bad boy's gone to jail.
[05:32.030 --> 05:33.490]  That's the man, man.
[05:33.850 --> 05:41.250]  Ooh-wee, ooh-wee, ooh-wee, ooh-wee, ooh-wee, ooh-wee, ooh-wee, ooh-wee, ooh-wee.
[05:41.530 --> 05:43.810]  Bad boy's gone to jail.
[05:44.570 --> 05:47.430]  Bad boy's gone to jail.
[05:47.430 --> 05:47.770]  Bad boy's gone to jail.
[05:48.110 --> 05:48.390]  Bad boy's gone to jail.
[05:48.390 --> 05:48.610]  Bad boy's gone to jail.
[05:48.610 --> 05:48.890]  Bad boy's gone to jail.
[05:48.890 --> 05:48.970]  Bad boy's gone to jail.
[05:48.970 --> 05:48.990]  Bad boy's gone to jail.
[06:22.690 --> 06:23.950]  Hey, good evening to everybody.
[06:24.310 --> 06:25.670]  The program is off the hook.
[06:26.690 --> 06:35.270]  This is our pre-H2K show, and we have a full lineup of... Isaac, put down the horn.
[06:36.790 --> 06:38.490]  We've got a few too many people in here.
[06:39.370 --> 06:40.430]  The heat is going up.
[06:40.490 --> 06:41.050]  It's unbelievable.
[06:41.310 --> 06:45.890]  Let's go left to right, because I think that's probably my left to right, because I think that's the easiest way to do it.
[06:46.330 --> 06:52.410]  So we're going to start with a familiar voice from the past, and also from some of our shows.
[06:52.650 --> 06:54.430]  I don't know if he's ever actually been in the studio.
[06:54.590 --> 06:55.810]  He's been on the phone many times.
[06:55.930 --> 06:56.710]  No, never been in the studio.
[06:57.190 --> 06:57.850]  Cheshire Catalyst.
[06:58.130 --> 06:59.650]  Cheshire Catalyst, in the flesh.
[06:59.950 --> 07:03.790]  And you've had a history with WBAI in the past, haven't you?
[07:04.310 --> 07:05.810]  I've answered phones during Pledge Week.
[07:05.950 --> 07:06.110]  Really?
[07:06.370 --> 07:06.690]  Wow.
[07:06.750 --> 07:07.270]  How long ago?
[07:07.410 --> 07:07.690]  That was...
[07:07.690 --> 07:08.530]  Back up on Heath Avenue.
[07:09.150 --> 07:09.270]  Wow.
[07:09.270 --> 07:09.670]  Way back when.
[07:09.810 --> 07:11.470]  Yeah, that was a fun place.
[07:11.590 --> 07:11.790]  Oh, yeah.
[07:11.850 --> 07:12.410]  It really was.
[07:12.750 --> 07:15.610]  Actually, you know, I found a picture, which I have to find.
[07:15.810 --> 07:20.270]  A picture of Bob Fass from, like, the 1960s, interviewing Abby Hoffman here at WBAI.
[07:20.270 --> 07:20.810]  Oh, that's great.
[07:21.010 --> 07:22.510]  It's a great picture I found on the web.
[07:22.690 --> 07:22.890]  Oh, yeah.
[07:22.950 --> 07:24.190]  I want to hang it up here someplace.
[07:25.290 --> 07:28.030]  Next to Cheshire is Ross from California.
[07:28.290 --> 07:28.450]  Hi.
[07:28.670 --> 07:29.010]  How are you doing?
[07:29.210 --> 07:29.390]  Hello.
[07:30.110 --> 07:30.930]  Is it your first time in New York?
[07:31.330 --> 07:31.650]  Yeah.
[07:31.910 --> 07:32.330]  Oh, wow.
[07:32.850 --> 07:33.750]  Scary place, isn't it?
[07:33.790 --> 07:34.650]  Eh, not so bad.
[07:34.970 --> 07:39.410]  And Mojo, who came from New York and went to California, kind of the opposite.
[07:39.690 --> 07:40.730]  Back home again now.
[07:40.950 --> 07:41.130]  Yeah.
[07:41.630 --> 07:42.550]  Here to shop and eat.
[07:43.550 --> 07:45.030]  And learn, I guess, this weekend.
[07:45.330 --> 07:45.510]  Yeah.
[07:45.510 --> 07:45.890]  Spend money.
[07:46.290 --> 07:46.590]  Yeah.
[07:47.090 --> 07:50.650]  Mojo makes a couple of appearances in the film, which will be debuting on Friday.
[07:50.930 --> 07:51.830]  Please, no autographs.
[07:51.950 --> 07:52.110]  Yeah.
[07:52.370 --> 07:52.670]  Oh.
[07:53.650 --> 07:55.570]  We can't control the crowds, you know.
[07:55.730 --> 07:56.890]  They demand autographs.
[07:56.970 --> 07:57.690]  That's what we have to give them.
[07:58.450 --> 08:00.010]  Isaac, you're out of jail?
[08:00.790 --> 08:01.150]  Yeah.
[08:01.330 --> 08:02.010]  What is this?
[08:02.050 --> 08:03.110]  That song was dedicated to you, by the way.
[08:03.350 --> 08:05.170]  I'm hearing a lot of interesting things.
[08:05.170 --> 08:06.350]  Fat boys go to jail, you know.
[08:06.550 --> 08:07.190]  And... All right.
[08:07.370 --> 08:11.890]  Well, from what I heard, and this is just from the police reports, and we know how they can be exaggerated.
[08:12.150 --> 08:12.850]  Oh, of course.
[08:12.870 --> 08:18.070]  There's an altercation with you trying to get into the studio last week with the 4th of July celebration right outside the window.
[08:18.530 --> 08:30.550]  Now, here's just a tip, and I don't mean to be at all patronizing here, but when you deal with policemen, you must be polite, you must be firm, you must act as if you, you know, belong where you're supposed to be going, whether or not you belong there or not.
[08:30.790 --> 08:32.410]  And, you know, that's what we did last week.
[08:32.490 --> 08:34.570]  I don't know what happened with you.
[08:34.810 --> 08:36.850]  I heard all kinds of things.
[08:37.250 --> 08:39.210]  I'm going to say I don't believe them all, okay?
[08:39.410 --> 08:39.650]  Okay.
[08:39.770 --> 08:40.850]  Which would be a good idea.
[08:41.150 --> 08:44.430]  Because first of all, I don't think you could pull off half the things that they say you did.
[08:44.790 --> 08:45.470]  I really don't.
[08:45.470 --> 08:49.710]  If anyone could inform me about what I did last week, just email me, please.
[08:49.910 --> 08:50.590]  I'd like to know.
[08:50.670 --> 08:53.230]  The drugs, again, that make you black out and forget what you did?
[08:54.610 --> 08:55.530]  I was elsewhere.
[08:55.710 --> 08:55.710]  All right.
[08:55.850 --> 08:58.230]  This whole weekend, Isaac, is going to be one of healing for you.
[08:58.390 --> 09:00.330]  And I'm asking everybody who comes to the conference.
[09:00.330 --> 09:02.970]  We're going to have, like, a 4,000-person intervention for me?
[09:02.970 --> 09:05.370]  I'm asking everybody who comes to the conference to watch over you.
[09:05.550 --> 09:09.410]  And, yes, a 4,000-person intervention, I think, is appropriate in this case.
[09:09.630 --> 09:09.930]  So, yeah.
[09:10.850 --> 09:12.530]  We'll be monitoring you.
[09:12.770 --> 09:13.230]  I'm sure.
[09:13.330 --> 09:14.370]  Making sure you don't do anything onto it.
[09:14.370 --> 09:15.570]  You're not the only ones monitoring it.
[09:16.210 --> 09:18.190]  Well, no, but... I'm no stranger to that.
[09:19.870 --> 09:20.410]  All right.
[09:20.610 --> 09:22.350]  Next to, uh, next to Isaac.
[09:22.650 --> 09:22.970]  Over there.
[09:23.110 --> 09:23.410]  Mackie.
[09:23.690 --> 09:24.050]  Over here.
[09:24.070 --> 09:24.850]  Our webmaster.
[09:25.070 --> 09:28.490]  Now, uh, you've been, uh, wandering around the city the last couple of days.
[09:28.930 --> 09:29.890]  Yes, I have.
[09:30.010 --> 09:30.910]  Met our legal team, right?
[09:30.910 --> 09:31.990]  It's been exhausting.
[09:32.210 --> 09:32.310]  Yeah.
[09:32.790 --> 09:34.770]  Well, the city... Just walking and walking with Ross.
[09:34.890 --> 09:36.430]  The city can suck the life out of you.
[09:36.570 --> 09:36.570]  Yeah.
[09:37.090 --> 09:37.190]  Yeah.
[09:37.550 --> 09:38.370]  Damn New York.
[09:38.670 --> 09:42.350]  But, um, you've, uh, you have, like, an update on the, uh, on the court case?
[09:43.050 --> 09:45.130]  Um, we'll be on... Moving ahead.
[09:45.350 --> 09:46.390]  On trial, a week from today.
[09:46.550 --> 09:47.350]  A week from yesterday, actually.
[09:47.430 --> 09:50.850]  Yeah, um, Discovery was supposed to, I think, originally was going to end on the 8th.
[09:51.170 --> 09:52.410]  Then it got pushed back to today.
[09:52.810 --> 09:58.850]  And, uh, last I heard, we're doing depositions all the way through up to right when the trial's going to start on Monday.
[09:59.030 --> 09:59.030]  Really?
[09:59.330 --> 10:00.870]  How about depositions during the trial?
[10:01.170 --> 10:02.510]  Um... Kind of double up, you know?
[10:02.570 --> 10:02.870]  I don't know.
[10:03.810 --> 10:07.710]  Yeah, it's an action-packed week as far as, uh, court things.
[10:07.910 --> 10:07.910]  Yeah.
[10:07.910 --> 10:12.970]  I think within the next, uh, week or so, we'll be having a whole bunch of, uh, transcripts available.
[10:13.310 --> 10:13.410]  Uh-huh.
[10:13.410 --> 10:14.990]  There's a big queue stacking up.
[10:15.010 --> 10:18.930]  I know we did Eisner earlier this week, which is supposed to be a... I want to see mine.
[10:19.070 --> 10:21.710]  I want mine to get out there, so hopefully that'll be out in a day or so.
[10:21.770 --> 10:22.990]  Yeah, I think so.
[10:23.070 --> 10:29.470]  I feel like an idiot, because I said it was going to be out two weeks ago, and, uh, it's... I guess we're swamped with paperwork, is the deal there.
[10:29.670 --> 10:45.810]  Yeah, last tally, uh, was, I think about, uh, 30,000 documents had been produced by the plaintiff, so we have this room full of, uh, of excellent, uh, excellent people sitting there just going through it, researching things, finding reports.
[10:45.830 --> 10:48.050]  Well, I mean, these guys are really capable of coming up with documents.
[10:48.210 --> 10:50.210]  I mean, when I was in their office, I mean, they...
[10:50.210 --> 10:51.410]  Basically, it's in Times Square.
[10:51.610 --> 10:54.230]  Prospero Rose is the name of the, the opposition legal firm.
[10:54.550 --> 11:00.910]  And it was just, it was scary, because, you know, I was going up this, this high-rise building to the 25th floor, I believe, uh, somewhere in Times Square.
[11:01.030 --> 11:08.010]  And the elevator stopped on every single floor, and every single floor said Prospero Rose on it, and they had more lawyers getting on and off, and, and, you know, talking to each other.
[11:08.150 --> 11:12.270]  And it was, it was straight out of The Simpsons, you know, where Mr. Burns has all the people with suitcases following him.
[11:12.370 --> 11:15.370]  These are those guys, and, and that's who our enemy is right now.
[11:15.430 --> 11:16.710]  And they're all sniveling, yeah.
[11:17.370 --> 11:18.350]  Some of them were sniveling.
[11:18.430 --> 11:18.750]  Yes, yes.
[11:18.890 --> 11:19.730]  Some of them definitely were.
[11:19.790 --> 11:24.650]  But it's, it's scary when you realize that's, you know, you can't get much bigger than that, as far as, as, as enemies.
[11:25.090 --> 11:26.730]  At least we don't have Lionel Hutz.
[11:26.850 --> 11:28.570]  We have very confident attorneys.
[11:29.010 --> 11:29.010]  Yeah.
[11:30.450 --> 11:32.130]  All right, Porkchop is, uh, over there.
[11:32.310 --> 11:32.830]  Hello, world.
[11:32.950 --> 11:33.370]  How are you doing?
[11:33.710 --> 11:34.110]  Pretty good.
[11:35.030 --> 11:35.910]  Uh, it's almost done.
[11:36.050 --> 11:36.390]  It's almost done.
[11:36.470 --> 11:38.930]  The film is, is, I think it's going to be finished tonight, actually.
[11:39.210 --> 11:39.990]  It should be, yeah.
[11:39.990 --> 11:41.910]  We just have a long, long time of rendering.
[11:42.070 --> 11:44.050]  It just depends on what your definition of night is, yeah.
[11:44.210 --> 11:45.630]  Night could be sometime tomorrow morning.
[11:45.830 --> 11:45.970]  Well, okay, that depends, too.
[11:46.350 --> 11:47.870]  But, yeah, it's, uh, it'll be done.
[11:48.030 --> 11:52.330]  It'll be ready to be played back, uh, at the conference Friday night, 7 p.m.
[11:52.330 --> 11:52.350]  It will.
[11:52.530 --> 11:54.450]  It was, I think there was a slight, uh, schedule change.
[11:54.610 --> 11:55.550]  It was originally at 8 p.m.
[11:55.570 --> 11:56.710]  We moved it to 7 p.m.
[11:56.710 --> 11:58.010]  Yeah, to provide an extra hour.
[11:58.170 --> 12:03.150]  Yeah, we have more people speaking at night, so we had to, uh, we had to kind of make room for that.
[12:03.610 --> 12:13.250]  So that'll be happening Friday at 7 p.m., and, uh, the, the debut of Freedom Down Time, the, the film having to do with Kevin Mitnick and, uh, and the whole hacker world in general.
[12:14.130 --> 12:15.730]  So, uh, yeah, I'm looking forward to it.
[12:15.850 --> 12:16.590]  Two years in the making.
[12:16.790 --> 12:18.310]  Yeah, I don't know what I'm gonna do with my time now.
[12:18.630 --> 12:23.110]  Well, I guess I'll go on trial next week, but after that, well, I suppose it could be prison or something.
[12:23.210 --> 12:23.530]  I don't know.
[12:23.850 --> 12:24.890]  But, there's always something.
[12:25.010 --> 12:25.890]  There's always something to do.
[12:26.310 --> 12:26.950]  Certainly is.
[12:27.430 --> 12:27.430]  Yeah.
[12:27.730 --> 12:28.130]  Now, Sheena.
[12:28.510 --> 12:28.670]  Hi.
[12:28.750 --> 12:29.150]  How you doing?
[12:29.610 --> 12:30.470]  Close to the mic there.
[12:30.570 --> 12:31.710]  You're about 20 feet away.
[12:31.810 --> 12:32.130]  There we are.
[12:32.410 --> 12:35.350]  So now, you're dealing with, uh, all the, all the media people.
[12:35.530 --> 12:35.650]  Yeah.
[12:35.750 --> 12:37.150]  There's media people right behind you, in fact.
[12:37.350 --> 12:37.530]  Yeah.
[12:37.990 --> 12:39.090]  So, I, so are here.
[12:39.290 --> 12:41.250]  I guess they're from... Let's hear the camera go.
[12:41.650 --> 12:41.970]  Hang on.
[12:42.350 --> 12:42.710]  No!
[12:43.010 --> 12:43.190]  There.
[12:43.270 --> 12:43.630]  There it is.
[12:44.130 --> 12:44.630]  All right.
[12:45.530 --> 12:46.750]  Uh, yeah, I got the back of your head there.
[12:47.090 --> 12:49.390]  So now, we have, we have tons of media people coming.
[12:49.510 --> 12:50.190]  Any, any notables?
[12:50.750 --> 12:50.990]  Pardon?
[12:51.130 --> 12:51.790]  Any notables?
[12:52.170 --> 12:55.090]  Well, I just got an email yesterday from NBC.
[12:55.410 --> 12:59.650]  NBC, the National Broadcasting Corporation, owned and operated by Westinghouse.
[12:59.890 --> 13:00.270]  Right.
[13:00.430 --> 13:01.550]  Military defense contractor.
[13:02.170 --> 13:02.450]  Right.
[13:02.810 --> 13:03.150]  Okay.
[13:03.210 --> 13:05.030]  And they have a really neat Peacock logo, too.
[13:05.150 --> 13:05.270]  Yeah.
[13:05.350 --> 13:06.310]  Somehow they got the Peacock.
[13:06.850 --> 13:11.990]  And also, um, I don't know if they want people to know this, but I'm going to know now.
[13:12.170 --> 13:12.510]  Uh-huh.
[13:12.590 --> 13:16.790]  Um, Warner Brothers, um... Warner Brothers, yes.
[13:16.910 --> 13:20.070]  Warner Brothers has a... Owner of, uh, Time Warner, CNN.
[13:20.350 --> 13:20.630]  Yes.
[13:20.890 --> 13:21.010]  Yes.
[13:21.010 --> 13:21.470]  Time Magazine.
[13:21.810 --> 13:22.010]  Yes.
[13:22.230 --> 13:25.750]  Well, they've, part of, one of their production groups is John Wells Productions.
[13:26.090 --> 13:26.090]  Mm-hmm.
[13:26.130 --> 13:29.670]  You guys may know John Wells because he does ER and Third Watch.
[13:30.150 --> 13:33.370]  And they're coming to see if anything sparks their interest.
[13:33.590 --> 13:35.690]  What, you mean for ER or Third Watch or for...
[13:36.490 --> 13:43.150]  Well, I, I don't, I don't think there's going to be some big, uh, cyberpunk aspect to, uh, ER anytime soon.
[13:43.150 --> 13:46.110]  Well, it's... But I think they're looking for something maybe that might spark their interest.
[13:46.230 --> 13:50.510]  It's been, if you watch ER, it's been pretty much that kind of, uh, a pace over the last few weeks, you know.
[13:51.070 --> 13:52.970]  Uh, so, uh, we're hoping that it slows down.
[13:53.230 --> 13:53.450]  Yeah.
[13:53.590 --> 13:54.810]  But it's not reruns for us.
[13:54.890 --> 13:58.810]  This is, this is all first run stuff and we're running around like crazy people with all kinds of incoming.
[13:59.770 --> 14:00.930]  So, uh, all right.
[14:00.990 --> 14:03.430]  Well, it'll be fun dealing with, uh, with all those media people.
[14:03.730 --> 14:07.850]  One, one media, uh, outlet that, that excited me was the Independent Media Center.
[14:08.050 --> 14:08.690]  IndyMedia, yeah.
[14:08.810 --> 14:09.450]  That's great.
[14:09.610 --> 14:11.970]  That's amazing that we're worthy of being covered by those guys.
[14:12.150 --> 14:14.230]  So, uh, I'm, I'm looking forward to that.
[14:14.290 --> 14:15.530]  Paper Tiger TV, those people.
[14:15.650 --> 14:16.430]  Paper Tiger is great.
[14:16.450 --> 14:17.830]  And I also got an email too.
[14:18.090 --> 14:20.030]  I'm glad to see that there are some high school students.
[14:20.030 --> 14:22.690]  I got some email from kids who want to cover it for their high school newspapers.
[14:23.070 --> 14:23.210]  Uh-huh.
[14:23.410 --> 14:26.350]  And they're, they've got some fears about censorship and everything too.
[14:26.430 --> 14:28.970]  They're afraid that if they report on the conference that it might be censored.
[14:29.090 --> 14:31.630]  Well, you know, we want to get people like that on the high school panel.
[14:31.870 --> 14:32.890]  We have a high school panel.
[14:32.990 --> 14:33.570]  Yeah, I already talked to them about that.
[14:33.690 --> 14:47.070]  And basically what we're looking for is, um, people who, uh, have, have had horror stories, you know, in, in high school basically suspended or kicked out of school because they figured out a way to, uh, you know, to, to drop down to a C prompt or whatever it is their,
[14:47.070 --> 14:47.870]  their school is running.
[14:48.530 --> 14:54.090]  And, uh, we just basically want to get them up on stage and to tell what happened because a lot of people there won't know.
[14:54.190 --> 14:56.730]  They won't know that this is what kids are going through these days.
[14:56.870 --> 14:58.830]  In fact, I talked to Jell will be out for a couple of days ago.
[14:58.910 --> 15:00.230]  He's giving our keynote on, on Saturday.
[15:00.650 --> 15:07.970]  And there was so much that, uh, that, that ties in that that's going on with kids today that went on with kids, you know, a couple of decades ago.
[15:08.570 --> 15:11.010]  And, uh, there's a lot of education that we can get from each other.
[15:11.330 --> 15:11.590]  Yeah.
[15:11.990 --> 15:16.050]  I mean, I, you know, I was in junior high during the time with two live crew and everything else.
[15:16.150 --> 15:22.490]  And now, I mean, kids can buy two live crew, but they still, they can't, you know, get into whatever site on there, you know, online.
[15:22.870 --> 15:24.070]  So it's still the same thing.
[15:24.430 --> 15:24.710]  Yeah.
[15:24.870 --> 15:29.770]  And, and there'll be more such controls in the future and that's what we have to watch out for and educate ourselves on this.
[15:29.950 --> 15:35.950]  This is the weekend where we're going to forge a lot of alliances and meet people that we're going to stay in touch with for a very, very long time.
[15:36.130 --> 15:37.690]  So that's, that's what I hope will come out of this.
[15:38.390 --> 15:40.070]  Uh, so, um, yeah, it'll be fun.
[15:40.250 --> 15:46.610]  Anybody out there though, who does want to be on the high school panel, please, you have to notify us now, email speakers at h2k.net.
[15:46.650 --> 15:49.330]  And if it's any incentive to you, yes, speakers do get in for free.
[15:49.530 --> 15:58.950]  So, uh, if you, if you wind up on that panel and you have to be in high school or in that, you know, general area, no, you know, 65 year old people talking about high school back in the twenties or whatever.
[15:59.390 --> 15:59.510]  No.
[16:00.150 --> 16:01.050]  Although it might be interesting.
[16:01.170 --> 16:01.830]  I want to check your math on that.
[16:01.930 --> 16:02.550]  Might be interesting.
[16:03.590 --> 16:04.890]  And bring your parents.
[16:05.390 --> 16:05.790]  Yeah.
[16:05.930 --> 16:06.570]  And bring your parents too.
[16:06.630 --> 16:13.890]  We are also looking, we have a couple of people scheduled for the, uh, for the parent panel, the parent panel being, what's it like to have a hacker as a kid?
[16:14.010 --> 16:16.150]  We, we have John Johansson's dad coming in.
[16:16.350 --> 16:24.510]  John Johansson being the guy in Norway was arrested for allegedly writing the DCSS code, which we are being sued for putting up on our website.
[16:25.070 --> 16:27.130]  So, uh, yeah, we have parents, but we'd like to have more.
[16:27.250 --> 16:30.710]  And if you bring your parents, you'll, you'll also get it for free if, if they're on the panel, that is.
[16:31.550 --> 16:32.410]  Um, okay.
[16:32.770 --> 16:35.450]  And, um, yes, we have SirCycle here too.
[16:35.730 --> 16:37.410]  And yeah, you're, you're running the network.
[16:37.630 --> 16:44.790]  You're running the, the H2K network, which, which promises to be one of the, uh, biggest, uh, at a, at a conference that I can see.
[16:44.990 --> 16:45.250]  Sure.
[16:45.350 --> 16:45.890]  If it works.
[16:46.010 --> 16:46.610]  If it works.
[16:46.830 --> 16:48.570]  There's always that question up until the last minute.
[16:48.650 --> 16:51.830]  Now we do have what can be considered a big major problem.
[16:52.330 --> 16:57.950]  And that big major problem comes in two rather, uh, nasty words known as Bell Atlantic.
[16:58.270 --> 17:00.850]  Now we've been planning this for what, a year now?
[17:01.030 --> 17:05.250]  And we're supposed to have a T1 installed at the Hotel Pennsylvania, what, last week?
[17:05.550 --> 17:07.830]  Um, actually about, uh, three weeks ago.
[17:08.150 --> 17:08.330]  Okay.
[17:08.430 --> 17:10.330]  And those, those nincompoops have not done it yet.
[17:10.570 --> 17:15.150]  And we're, we're trying, we're trying to get them to expedite this.
[17:15.630 --> 17:19.810]  If Bell Atlantic, uh, has, has any kind of, uh, uh, history with us.
[17:19.970 --> 17:22.650]  We know that they're going to do it, you know, next week.
[17:22.790 --> 17:28.710]  So basically what we need is we need, uh, anyone out there, anyone out there with, with some kind of pull.
[17:28.850 --> 17:30.470]  And I know Bell Atlantic people listen to this show.
[17:30.650 --> 17:35.930]  Listen, guys, we may have said some nasty things in the past, but this, this, this goes beyond, you know, any kind of retribution here.
[17:36.270 --> 17:38.610]  There's thousands of people depending on this T1.
[17:38.610 --> 17:45.990]  And if it's not installed by, you know, say tomorrow, like it's supposed to have been three weeks ago, uh, there'd be an awful lot of disappointed people here.
[17:45.990 --> 17:50.550]  I mean, basically, Alex said that nag.net has been nice enough to, uh, to donate the T1 to us.
[17:50.830 --> 17:56.850]  Uh, but it's a real, it's a real slap in the face if, uh, if Bell Atlantic doesn't install it like they're supposed to.
[17:56.990 --> 18:03.250]  I mean, yeah, it'll educate everybody as to how bad Bell Atlantic, now called Verizon, is, and probably will continue to be.
[18:03.390 --> 18:05.210]  But this is just, it's not right.
[18:05.310 --> 18:06.730]  We're scrambling to look into alternatives.
[18:07.170 --> 18:10.550]  You know, I, I know one way or another, it's going to work out.
[18:10.730 --> 18:14.590]  Even if we have no phones whatsoever, we're going to do something and it's going to work.
[18:14.710 --> 18:16.150]  That's, that's the nature of hacker conferences.
[18:16.410 --> 18:18.550]  We, we, you know, we'll put it together with string if we have to.
[18:18.650 --> 18:19.330]  It's going to work.
[18:19.790 --> 18:23.130]  But it would work so much nicer if, if we got the T1.
[18:23.490 --> 18:23.810]  Right?
[18:24.150 --> 18:24.350]  Yep.
[18:24.670 --> 18:28.950]  So, uh, I understand it's, it's at a high priority level somewhere.
[18:29.230 --> 18:29.590]  Somewhere.
[18:29.770 --> 18:30.770]  We don't know where though.
[18:30.870 --> 18:32.330]  Could be in the janitor's closet for all we know.
[18:32.370 --> 18:32.570]  Yeah.
[18:33.050 --> 18:33.290]  All right.
[18:33.370 --> 18:38.450]  So let's, uh, let's, if you, if you have connections with Bell Atlantic, uh, I guess best thing to do is email us?
[18:39.130 --> 18:39.750]  Uh, yeah.
[18:39.810 --> 18:44.630]  I guess if you could just email anybody or anybody you know who's associated with the conference, they'll know how to get in touch with me.
[18:44.850 --> 18:48.430]  And, uh, we'll, you know, be sure to, you know, uh, use your help.
[18:48.590 --> 18:48.750]  Yeah.
[18:48.770 --> 18:52.210]  You can email me to Emanuel, E-M-M-A-N-U-E-L at 2600.com.
[18:52.530 --> 18:55.170]  And, um, I'll pass it on to all the right people.
[18:55.870 --> 19:00.610]  We have, uh, lots and lots of panels scheduled for Friday and Saturday and Sunday.
[19:01.190 --> 19:03.390]  Uh, two tracks of speakers all booked solid.
[19:03.530 --> 19:06.750]  We have a third track for people that, um, have not scheduled yet.
[19:06.790 --> 19:07.070]  You know what?
[19:07.090 --> 19:07.430]  I forgot.
[19:07.590 --> 19:07.910]  I'm sorry.
[19:08.210 --> 19:09.250]  Bernie S is on the phone.
[19:09.330 --> 19:10.790]  Bernie, it's just that you're on the phone.
[19:10.910 --> 19:11.470]  I don't see you.
[19:11.470 --> 19:12.350]  And I, I totally forgot.
[19:12.490 --> 19:12.910]  Bernie, you there?
[19:13.730 --> 19:14.150]  Uh-oh.
[19:14.370 --> 19:14.730]  Or not?
[19:15.510 --> 19:17.250]  Well, he was there and his little light is on.
[19:18.330 --> 19:18.650]  Okay.
[19:18.870 --> 19:19.870]  I'll call Bernie back.
[19:20.010 --> 19:20.190]  Okay.
[19:20.350 --> 19:20.390]  Yeah.
[19:20.470 --> 19:21.430]  But, you know, it's...
[19:21.430 --> 19:22.210]  It happens.
[19:22.350 --> 19:22.770]  It happens.
[19:22.890 --> 19:23.710]  These things happen all the time.
[19:24.090 --> 19:24.410]  Yeah.
[19:24.470 --> 19:25.210]  I totally forgot about him.
[19:26.210 --> 19:28.990]  Of course, I'm, maybe our phone isn't working because his light is still on.
[19:29.810 --> 19:31.510]  I'm going to hit another button and see if I get a dial tone.
[19:32.370 --> 19:33.330]  Maybe he's getting something to you.
[19:33.350 --> 19:33.670]  Okay.
[19:34.210 --> 19:35.430]  It's, uh, it's working.
[19:35.510 --> 19:37.810]  It's just maybe, maybe fell out of range or something.
[19:37.870 --> 19:38.510]  Yeah, that must be it.
[19:38.650 --> 19:39.070]  That's good.
[19:39.230 --> 19:39.970]  He went out of range.
[19:40.250 --> 19:40.570]  Okay.
[19:40.670 --> 19:41.570]  We'll get back to him in a moment.
[19:41.810 --> 19:43.910]  So, yeah, we have, uh, two tracks of speakers.
[19:43.910 --> 19:47.650]  We have, uh, a third track for people that, uh, have not scheduled yet.
[19:47.870 --> 19:52.470]  Uh, we have, uh, movies and films that we'll be playing constantly in various places.
[19:52.790 --> 19:54.170]  And I don't know.
[19:54.250 --> 19:54.870]  Am I leaving out anything?
[19:56.990 --> 19:57.710]  No, I guess not.
[19:57.810 --> 19:58.290]  Mock trial.
[19:58.630 --> 19:59.050]  What's that?
[19:59.130 --> 19:59.650]  The mock trial.
[19:59.650 --> 20:00.410]  The mock trial, yes.
[20:00.530 --> 20:02.710]  We have, uh, why don't you update us on that?
[20:02.810 --> 20:05.350]  Because you've been working feverishly getting the mock trial set up.
[20:05.450 --> 20:07.250]  That's where we're going to be put on trial ourselves.
[20:07.590 --> 20:07.850]  Right.
[20:07.990 --> 20:09.930]  For the crimes that we're being accused of.
[20:10.030 --> 20:12.970]  And this, this actually was scheduled before they scheduled the real trial.
[20:13.950 --> 20:23.570]  Well, what's, what's really, um, going on is that it's going to follow in a similar sort of fashion as what's going to happen Monday, except it's not going to be as boring.
[20:24.270 --> 20:26.210]  Um, well, real life trials are boring.
[20:26.210 --> 20:29.230]  If you've ever watched court TV for an hour, it's very boring.
[20:29.470 --> 20:32.010]  So this should, this should definitely be entertaining.
[20:32.010 --> 20:33.970]  We've got some really great people.
[20:34.110 --> 20:41.130]  We've got a couple attorneys, um, one attorney who does, um, cyberspace law over at Cardozo, over at my, my school.
[20:41.630 --> 20:43.670]  And, uh, so that, I think it's going to be really great.
[20:44.210 --> 20:47.370]  So where are you planning on finding the impartial jury?
[20:47.670 --> 20:48.970]  The impartial jury.
[20:51.110 --> 20:54.650]  Well, Isaac, is any jury really, yeah, is any jury really important?
[20:54.790 --> 20:55.290]  That's a good one.
[20:55.550 --> 20:56.070]  Yeah, 12 people.
[20:56.210 --> 20:58.990]  Well, we can, uh, I don't know if you want to take more time.
[20:59.150 --> 21:00.090]  We'll conduct a word here.
[21:00.290 --> 21:00.510]  Yes.
[21:00.850 --> 21:01.910]  That's what I'm wondering.
[21:02.330 --> 21:07.350]  Well, when you ask, are you affiliated with any organization and everything and everybody says 2600, y'all have to dismiss them?
[21:07.350 --> 21:08.330]  All right, then there goes your entire jury.
[21:08.510 --> 21:13.470]  If anyone's connected to Time Warner or Disney or, uh, you know, any of the universal.
[21:13.910 --> 21:16.070]  So you're going to wind up pulling people right off of the street.
[21:16.310 --> 21:17.450]  I just hope we can find 12 people.
[21:18.250 --> 21:20.370]  Jury tampering will be treated very seriously.
[21:20.530 --> 21:20.850]  That's right.
[21:21.170 --> 21:21.910]  No tampering with the jury.
[21:22.010 --> 21:23.610]  Bernie S joins us now live in Philadelphia.
[21:23.830 --> 21:24.210]  Bernie, you there?
[21:24.570 --> 21:25.070]  Oh, yes.
[21:25.230 --> 21:27.370]  After a 20 minute hold time, I'm glad to be back.
[21:27.570 --> 21:27.770]  Yes.
[21:27.950 --> 21:28.410]  Sorry about that.
[21:29.470 --> 21:33.770]  So what's, uh, what we basically have updated everybody on what's going on with the, with the conference.
[21:33.890 --> 21:35.870]  Maybe you have some, some additional things to tell us.
[21:35.930 --> 21:36.630]  Uh, I just got home.
[21:36.790 --> 21:45.910]  I'm, uh, punched over a, uh, uh, very high quality ID badge printer printing H2K ID badges.
[21:46.190 --> 21:48.850]  That's, that's quite an enviable task that you have there.
[21:48.990 --> 21:50.370]  You're printing all the badges yourself.
[21:51.050 --> 21:55.150]  Well, when I get to, uh, when I get up there Thursday, I think I might need to stop finishing this job off.
[21:55.230 --> 21:58.250]  But these are very interesting collector's items, I might say.
[21:58.770 --> 22:02.590]  These are, uh, these are quite a pocket full of technology, these cards.
[22:02.790 --> 22:23.010]  They implement, uh, multiple holograms, barcodes, a mag stripe, uh, optical character recognition letters, um, like a, like a, like a, like a, uh, a 3D psychedelic pattern, and a hidden message, which will be awarding prizes to the, uh, finders thereof.
[22:23.210 --> 22:24.410]  Ooh, that's no challenge.
[22:26.150 --> 22:29.270]  So that's enough of my, uh, spiel about the H2K ID card.
[22:29.590 --> 22:29.990]  Okay.
[22:30.730 --> 22:34.630]  Well, it's, uh, it's definitely something to, uh, to, uh, look forward to.
[22:35.230 --> 22:38.010]  I saw, I saw an image of the badges and they do look really cool.
[22:39.190 --> 22:39.950]  Um, okay.
[22:40.090 --> 22:41.110]  So we've talked about the T1.
[22:41.250 --> 22:44.350]  We've talked about the network, the speakers, the, uh, the badges.
[22:44.630 --> 22:45.470]  What are we leaving on?
[22:45.690 --> 22:45.690]  Anything?
[22:46.990 --> 22:47.590]  I guess not.
[22:47.750 --> 22:49.710]  You mentioned we're having a network, a, uh, sorry, a music room.
[22:49.970 --> 22:50.390]  That's right.
[22:50.430 --> 22:55.790]  We have, we have music set up, uh, in the music room, which, uh, is up on the 18th floor of the Hotel Pennsylvania.
[22:56.130 --> 23:03.050]  For those who don't know, the conference takes place Friday, Saturday, Sunday at the hotel, which is, I think, on 32nd and, uh, 7th Avenue.
[23:03.630 --> 23:05.450]  Uh, if you want to be involved, there's still time.
[23:05.630 --> 23:06.770]  We're setting up all night Thursday.
[23:07.590 --> 23:12.950]  And, um, basically we, uh, we could use your help if you, if you want to be, uh, be part of things.
[23:13.250 --> 23:14.870]  Starting, I guess, at about 1 p.m.
[23:15.090 --> 23:20.110]  Um, I guess, uh, volunteers can show up about then and we'll be, uh, we'll need a lot of help loading.
[23:20.310 --> 23:23.490]  I think we're getting lots and lots and lots of public terminals.
[23:23.950 --> 23:32.490]  So we're going to need to get that from the ground floor, somehow move those into the, uh, the service elevators and get that up to the 18th floor.
[23:32.910 --> 23:41.630]  I imagine that's going to be quite a, uh, quite a task, but, uh, anybody who can help, anybody who's able, uh, just come to the, uh, Hotel Pennsylvania, 33rd and 7th.
[23:42.270 --> 23:46.310]  Uh, at any time between 1 and, I guess, 738.
[23:46.630 --> 23:48.190]  But how will they know who we are?
[23:48.810 --> 23:51.250]  How will they tell us from the general populace?
[23:51.270 --> 23:52.010]  How can you not tell us?
[23:52.030 --> 23:54.610]  Oh, I, I, I, well... Hmm, looking at...
[23:54.610 --> 23:55.630]  You blend in so well.
[23:55.830 --> 23:56.190]  Yeah.
[23:56.710 --> 23:59.810]  Yeah, we don't blend in that well, but we've got the entire 18th floor.
[24:00.170 --> 24:00.330]  That's right.
[24:00.390 --> 24:01.910]  You seem to have something interesting there.
[24:02.270 --> 24:04.350]  I, yeah, I have the, and so does Pork Shop, actually.
[24:04.430 --> 24:07.230]  We have the two existing copies of the new H2K shirt.
[24:07.630 --> 24:08.810]  I have the staff version.
[24:08.890 --> 24:10.430]  He has the, uh, peasant version.
[24:12.090 --> 24:13.190]  Interesting, uh, yeah.
[24:13.710 --> 24:13.850]  Okay.
[24:14.210 --> 24:15.610]  And, uh, there'll be more of those.
[24:15.730 --> 24:16.310]  Lots more of those.
[24:16.630 --> 24:16.790]  Lots more?
[24:16.790 --> 24:16.890]  Lots more?
[24:17.030 --> 24:17.550]  At the conference.
[24:17.750 --> 24:18.930]  It's a very involved picture.
[24:19.090 --> 24:19.690]  It sure is.
[24:19.910 --> 24:20.470]  Definitely is.
[24:20.930 --> 24:21.970]  How about the, uh, program there?
[24:22.030 --> 24:23.410]  We, we're going to have programs printed up.
[24:23.890 --> 24:28.470]  Um, but let me, uh, quickly go through some of the, uh, some of the highlights of the speakers here.
[24:28.590 --> 24:28.970]  In case...
[24:28.970 --> 24:30.770]  Oh, not that kind of program, I'm sorry.
[24:30.930 --> 24:38.230]  No, in case, uh, people don't have, uh, you know, uh, web access, maybe they have not, uh, heard of this yet, but basically, we have all kinds of panels.
[24:38.430 --> 24:39.350]  A Cult of the Dead Cow.
[24:40.070 --> 24:40.390]  CDC.
[24:40.710 --> 24:43.190]  Yeah, giving one of their extravaganza presentations.
[24:43.390 --> 24:45.270]  If you've never been there, never been to one of those.
[24:45.390 --> 24:45.390]  It's worth it.
[24:45.470 --> 24:46.510]  Yeah, it's, it's something.
[24:47.410 --> 24:49.890]  Um, Roger Waters is opening up for us.
[24:49.970 --> 24:51.390]  Do you know that, Roger Waters from Pink Floyd?
[24:51.530 --> 24:52.630]  They, I don't know the details.
[24:52.670 --> 24:54.850]  He's playing in a garden across the street the night before.
[24:55.270 --> 24:55.510]  Oh.
[24:55.630 --> 24:58.770]  It must be one of those, like, nice little things with trees and, you know, birds.
[24:58.770 --> 24:58.830]  Right, right, right, right.
[24:58.830 --> 24:59.410]  He's flying around.
[24:59.770 --> 25:01.670]  So, by all means, check that out.
[25:01.670 --> 25:03.110]  I understand that starts around 8 o'clock.
[25:03.470 --> 25:08.710]  Uh, but, uh, we also have, uh, talks on, uh, well, of course, the ECSS and the DMCA.
[25:08.710 --> 25:12.350]  We'll have, uh, people from our, our legal team up on stage.
[25:12.630 --> 25:18.110]  Uh, things on, on, identity theft and, and being a good Samaritan online.
[25:19.010 --> 25:21.250]  Internet security using open source software.
[25:22.530 --> 25:25.310]  Of course, high school horror tales, like we were talking about.
[25:25.470 --> 25:25.910]  Hacktivism.
[25:26.070 --> 25:26.870]  Hacktivism panels.
[25:27.550 --> 25:28.530]  Uh, retrocomputing.
[25:28.870 --> 25:35.090]  Retrocomputing is, uh, something that was actually, one of our callers called in to do, uh, you know, to ask if they could do that only two weeks ago.
[25:35.090 --> 25:36.370]  So, and that's a panel right now.
[25:36.630 --> 25:38.150]  And that's really, uh, that's taken off.
[25:38.250 --> 25:39.270]  A lot of people have expressed interest.
[25:39.490 --> 25:39.490]  That's going to be a lot of fun.
[25:39.530 --> 25:39.650]  Yeah.
[25:39.950 --> 25:41.750]  So, bring in your old, uh, ancient computers.
[25:42.090 --> 25:42.150]  Lots of stories.
[25:42.150 --> 25:45.490]  What's amazing is, uh, the guy running this isn't as old as the computers.
[25:45.670 --> 25:46.030]  Correct.
[25:46.950 --> 25:47.950]  Which I found kind of odd.
[25:48.010 --> 25:49.250]  He was asking me about these machines.
[25:49.410 --> 25:51.210]  I'm like, how do you know of these things?
[25:52.070 --> 25:56.490]  We've got, we've got one of the, uh, one of the experts from Europe, uh, Barry the Key.
[25:56.790 --> 25:57.470]  You know Barry the Key?
[25:57.690 --> 25:57.750]  Barry the Key.
[25:57.750 --> 26:03.450]  He's, he's, he's, he's one of the leading, uh, I guess, uh, experts on, on lockpicking in the world.
[26:05.090 --> 26:05.830]  Anything at all.
[26:06.430 --> 26:08.530]  Um, definitely check that out.
[26:08.670 --> 26:10.190]  I think that sounds like a track three workshop.
[26:10.370 --> 26:17.010]  And if I can throw in a shameless plug, I've come all the way up from Florida to give a talk on why hacking NASA is a really stupid idea.
[26:17.250 --> 26:17.250]  It is.
[26:17.250 --> 26:18.530]  It's a very stupid idea.
[26:18.870 --> 26:21.130]  Yes, but it's also very easy from what I hear.
[26:21.310 --> 26:22.290]  That doesn't change it.
[26:22.350 --> 26:23.130]  It's so stupid.
[26:23.330 --> 26:26.710]  But it's also easy, and that's something that needs to be focused on, is why is it so easy?
[26:27.630 --> 26:29.330]  Well, that's the story for another day.
[26:29.610 --> 26:34.550]  The trick is, you bring down the wrath of federal agencies, and you get NASA pissed off at you.
[26:34.550 --> 26:38.550]  You don't want that if you're looking to impress NASA with your skill and prowess.
[26:38.950 --> 26:43.010]  Uh, so I'll be giving a talk, basically, on how to really go about becoming an astronaut.
[26:43.330 --> 26:45.830]  You're actually giving a bunch of talks, and they're all really good.
[26:46.870 --> 26:53.410]  I mean, I don't know how we're going to be able to see all, I mean, you're even talking opposite yourself once, because there's so many things that I don't know how we're going to do.
[26:53.410 --> 26:57.150]  I think we've got that one cleared up, but I do have to run from one room to another at one point, I noticed.
[26:57.850 --> 26:58.170]  Yes.
[26:58.490 --> 27:02.270]  Uh, we have a panel on the whole MTV fiasco, and that's going to be fun.
[27:02.270 --> 27:02.730]  Oh, yeah.
[27:03.190 --> 27:08.410]  You know, uh, Tommy, the guy that called in to tip us off about how much it was going to suck, and he was right.
[27:08.510 --> 27:19.090]  Well, he's going to be, uh, he's going to be kind of reviewing that, and, uh, we wanted to get Serena on there, too, you know, from MTV, but she's going to be in Kosovo, causing all kinds of problems over there as well.
[27:19.090 --> 27:19.670]  Yeah.
[27:20.230 --> 27:21.990]  Um, the Robotic Graffiti Writer.
[27:22.490 --> 27:23.390]  You hear about this?
[27:24.050 --> 27:35.470]  The Institute for Applied Autonomy is a politically motivated robotics collective which develops technologies to, uh, both counter existing military police technologies as well as to extend the autonomy of human activists.
[27:35.730 --> 27:36.810]  You're going to like that one, aren't you, Isaac?
[27:38.110 --> 27:39.370]  It's a mouthful, okay.
[27:39.690 --> 27:40.450]  Robotics, yeah.
[27:40.650 --> 27:42.590]  So, uh, that's... they're going to be having a live demonstration.
[27:42.890 --> 27:46.870]  I think that's right, uh, that's just prior to the CDC extravaganza.
[27:46.870 --> 27:50.290]  I think they're going to do the graffiti on, like, a piece of paper and not the hotel wall.
[27:50.510 --> 27:52.650]  They've requested an 80-foot piece of paper.
[27:53.530 --> 27:54.830]  I don't know how we're going to pull that off.
[27:54.830 --> 27:56.770]  Just roll it down from the ceiling and let it rip.
[27:57.270 --> 28:03.730]  Bill SF is going to be here, uh, giving a lecture on telephone systems of the world, and he has a lot of, uh, a lot of really interesting things.
[28:03.770 --> 28:07.910]  He was telling me the other day how it's cheaper to call here from Europe than for us to call Europe from here.
[28:08.070 --> 28:08.570]  Doesn't surprise me.
[28:08.790 --> 28:09.530]  I didn't know that.
[28:09.530 --> 28:12.150]  I thought it was always more expensive to call, you know, from, from here.
[28:12.150 --> 28:13.030]  It hasn't been in the past, anyway.
[28:13.570 --> 28:15.790]  Yeah, so, uh, there's a lot that, uh, that can be learned.
[28:15.790 --> 28:18.910]  And, uh, that's just a, a very small portion.
[28:18.910 --> 28:21.830]  We have the social engineering panel, which, um, hopefully we'll...
[28:21.830 --> 28:22.230]  That's the classic.
[28:22.430 --> 28:23.470]  That's the classic, but, uh...
[28:23.470 --> 28:24.570]  You're still sitting on this?
[28:24.770 --> 28:26.670]  I'm sitting on it, but, you know, we need more people.
[28:26.810 --> 28:31.490]  We need more people, and I think people are afraid that they don't, you know, measure up.
[28:32.270 --> 28:33.490]  So, there's no need to be afraid.
[28:33.690 --> 28:36.230]  If you think you can be part of the social engineering panel, we want to hear from you.
[28:36.370 --> 28:37.430]  Speakers at h2k.net.
[28:37.690 --> 28:38.070]  Email us.
[28:38.150 --> 28:39.490]  Tell us what you think you can do.
[28:39.790 --> 28:44.330]  We'll have a phone line up there, you know, and we can try and find out things we're not supposed to find out.
[28:44.330 --> 28:46.010]  And get information.
[28:46.310 --> 28:46.990]  That kind of thing.
[28:47.910 --> 28:54.150]  Another, uh, panel that we'll be pulling from the peanut gallery is about what the internet looks like to users from overseas.
[28:54.630 --> 28:57.930]  Because we know that a number of people are coming over to h2k from overseas.
[28:58.270 --> 29:03.590]  Uh, we're not really sure who they are yet, but as they register, we hope to ask them if they want to be on this panel.
[29:04.010 --> 29:09.470]  Uh, the idea being that the net is so American-centric.
[29:09.830 --> 29:10.130]  Uh-huh.
[29:10.750 --> 29:12.110]  And what's happening overseas?
[29:12.110 --> 29:14.050]  What's happening where they have different languages?
[29:14.810 --> 29:17.090]  You know, what's happening in .es for España?
[29:17.450 --> 29:17.530]  Right.
[29:17.770 --> 29:19.090]  Uh, .it for Italy?
[29:19.330 --> 29:19.650]  Yeah, I know.
[29:19.770 --> 29:22.350]  We're very used to things here because, you know, we're .com.
[29:22.450 --> 29:23.830]  There's no .us at the end of everything.
[29:23.870 --> 29:24.590]  I don't think that should be.
[29:24.670 --> 29:28.450]  If it's really going to be a global type of a thing, I think it should be equal in all areas.
[29:29.110 --> 29:29.450]  Um...
[29:29.450 --> 29:32.770]  Well, the .us is mostly used by, uh, state and municipal...
[29:32.770 --> 29:33.270]  Local governments, yeah.
[29:33.370 --> 29:33.610]  ...domains.
[29:33.750 --> 29:34.570]  Yeah, government domains.
[29:34.970 --> 29:35.090]  Right.
[29:35.090 --> 29:38.330]  Although we have 2600, uh, what is it again?
[29:39.710 --> 29:41.250]  .middleisland.ny.us.
[29:41.510 --> 29:41.690]  Yeah.
[29:42.010 --> 29:43.870]  Yeah, it is possible to get a .us domain.
[29:44.010 --> 29:45.230]  Well, you just talk to the guy who has ny.
[29:45.570 --> 29:48.430]  It's possible to get area51.groomlake.nv.us.
[29:49.370 --> 29:49.830]  All right.
[29:50.050 --> 29:51.210]  Well, not that we've investigated.
[29:51.570 --> 29:52.130]  It's been done.
[29:52.350 --> 29:52.670]  Okay.
[29:52.670 --> 29:53.470]  I know the guy who did it.
[29:53.610 --> 29:53.830]  All right.
[29:54.010 --> 29:54.490]  That's cool.
[29:54.730 --> 30:02.230]  No, but still, that goes back to the very old way where you would just contact the guy who was immediately above you in the, uh, authority delegation.
[30:02.230 --> 30:04.030]  It's like, uh, hey, I want X.
[30:04.170 --> 30:05.450]  He says, okay.
[30:05.890 --> 30:07.250]  And puts it in, and you got it.
[30:07.410 --> 30:07.590]  Uh-huh.
[30:07.790 --> 30:08.970]  I mean, that's how it used to be.
[30:09.230 --> 30:10.150]  Well, you know, it's...
[30:10.150 --> 30:10.730]  That's a good way.
[30:10.730 --> 30:11.430]  You have your $35.
[30:11.950 --> 30:12.750]  You got your 20 bucks.
[30:12.950 --> 30:13.370]  Come on.
[30:13.470 --> 30:14.410]  Remember when it used to be free?
[30:14.510 --> 30:15.790]  I mean, this is only a few years ago.
[30:15.810 --> 30:16.250]  That's what I'm talking about.
[30:16.350 --> 30:17.390]  You just, like, told the guy.
[30:17.490 --> 30:19.250]  You could, you could register buy.com.
[30:19.370 --> 30:21.010]  You were, like, you know, 12 years old or something like that.
[30:21.070 --> 30:21.790]  It didn't cost anything.
[30:21.930 --> 30:22.570]  You put up a site.
[30:22.690 --> 30:23.090]  That was it.
[30:23.250 --> 30:23.810]  That was it.
[30:24.010 --> 30:25.530]  Now it's like, you can't do that.
[30:25.530 --> 30:31.170]  You have to, uh, you know, give it to the people that, uh, have the most money and, uh, you know, we'll sue you if you don't give it to them.
[30:31.670 --> 30:32.590]  It's really sad.
[30:33.190 --> 30:33.590]  Emmanuel.
[30:33.830 --> 30:34.010]  Yes.
[30:34.330 --> 30:47.310]  Uh, I just heard, uh, today that, uh, someone, this might be news that other people have heard as well, but, uh, a private individual just registered the domain, domain, domain name, hotmail.com.
[30:47.730 --> 30:48.470]  Now, wait a minute.
[30:48.830 --> 30:51.490]  It's my understanding that hotmail.com is already registered.
[30:51.830 --> 30:52.630]  Well, it expired.
[30:52.630 --> 30:57.750]  Didn't this happen last year where hotmail didn't pay their bill or something like that and somebody, uh...
[30:57.750 --> 31:02.010]  Yeah, yeah, and a Linux user got fed up waiting to check his mail, so he paid it for them.
[31:02.330 --> 31:10.110]  I, I just heard on, uh, CNBC and they may be reporting year-long news that the private individual registered it and then, uh, gave it back to Microsoft.
[31:10.810 --> 31:11.550]  I think we covered that.
[31:11.550 --> 31:12.550]  They didn't charge for it.
[31:12.970 --> 31:14.410]  They just gave it back to the person.
[31:14.610 --> 31:17.930]  Well, I think they reimbursed him the $35 and he framed the check or something.
[31:18.070 --> 31:19.490]  Yeah, I think he just paid for it.
[31:20.710 --> 31:21.410]  Have I seen this?
[31:21.410 --> 31:25.370]  But if, uh, if someone had, uh, decided to, uh, uh...
[31:25.370 --> 31:26.090]  Hang on to it?
[31:26.450 --> 31:27.890]  Yeah, what would, uh, what would have happened?
[31:27.890 --> 31:32.330]  Well, you can't even do that anymore because NSI is going to auction all these domains off.
[31:32.670 --> 31:38.470]  So if your, your domain expires, it now goes on to a happy little queue where it will be auctioned off by NSI.
[31:39.010 --> 31:42.150]  The only cap on that is it's however much you owed them.
[31:42.150 --> 31:45.330]  So if, you know, uh, you as the original holder...
[31:45.330 --> 31:46.450]  Like a tax bail for your house.
[31:46.630 --> 31:47.610]  Yeah, something like that.
[31:48.190 --> 31:49.930]  It's, it's, it's really sad.
[31:50.070 --> 31:52.710]  So I'm, I'm waiting for Microsoft to slip up like that again.
[31:52.850 --> 31:54.730]  There's some other large corporation to slip up like that again.
[31:54.870 --> 31:57.630]  Some guy makes the $35 maximum bid, by the way.
[31:58.030 --> 32:02.890]  The, the, the cap is how much the original individual or company owned, owed.
[32:03.330 --> 32:07.770]  Uh, and then, like, tries to sell it back to them for $4 billion or some silly number like that.
[32:07.770 --> 32:11.010]  Yeah, I, I actually recall seeing fairly recently an article about it.
[32:11.050 --> 32:17.530]  People are finally complaining about networks, uh, over network solutions because they're not releasing the domain name.
[32:17.730 --> 32:24.990]  So it expires, and other registrars aren't able to then register the name that's expired because NSI is hanging on to it.
[32:25.230 --> 32:26.050]  That's like squatting.
[32:26.230 --> 32:26.490]  Yeah.
[32:26.990 --> 32:33.930]  Well, they, they, they, it was, their, their old policy was it would sit on hold for about a month so you would have an opportunity to pay for it.
[32:34.270 --> 32:35.630]  I mean, that, that's nothing new.
[32:35.630 --> 32:44.690]  Uh, what, what's really got people, uh, uh, bothered is, uh, the lack of security around NSI with all these domain hijackings going on.
[32:44.830 --> 32:54.130]  And people are wondering, well, gee, perhaps sending an email from the address that's listed in the database isn't exactly the high kind of security that we need for a system like this.
[32:54.330 --> 33:06.030]  Well, you know, I've, I've, uh, had the PGP key security and the, uh, password security on a domain name and still had it stolen by someone just because they sent in a fax to NSI saying, no, no, no, really.
[33:06.190 --> 33:06.850]  It's my name.
[33:06.990 --> 33:07.130]  Right.
[33:07.290 --> 33:11.530]  And I call it, I call it, I call it NSI and they're all, okay, well you have to send a competing fax.
[33:11.650 --> 33:11.790]  Yeah.
[33:11.990 --> 33:12.430]  They do that.
[33:13.170 --> 33:14.770]  NSI is most in that bunch of clods.
[33:14.990 --> 33:22.690]  They, they basically believe I've been trying to change my authentication to, uh, to Crip PW for ages now from mail from.
[33:22.810 --> 33:23.390]  It's not worth it.
[33:23.530 --> 33:27.350]  They know they keep sending back mail saying your email does not match and it's, it's not the same.
[33:27.410 --> 33:28.290]  It's like, it is the same.
[33:28.390 --> 33:29.610]  This is where I mail from.
[33:29.650 --> 33:30.770]  It even says it in the headers.
[33:30.870 --> 33:33.630]  If you look at the headers, it's identical and I can't get past that point.
[33:33.630 --> 33:34.510]  I can't get a human.
[33:35.130 --> 33:39.190]  Whereas the people at register.com, you know, I got a reply from them immediately.
[33:39.390 --> 33:43.710]  We came very close to losing 2600.com about a few weeks ago.
[33:43.870 --> 33:45.290]  We're busy with all this other stuff.
[33:45.430 --> 33:46.650]  We have the trial and...
[33:46.650 --> 33:52.830]  According, according to register.com, it was actually the site 2600.com, like with O's not zeros.
[33:53.010 --> 33:59.690]  That somebody was, was, was changing to register.com and somehow NSI took that to mean our site and they just said, yeah, okay, take it.
[34:00.270 --> 34:00.450]  Whoops.
[34:00.570 --> 34:02.630]  And, uh, all of a sudden we didn't have control of our site.
[34:02.630 --> 34:08.890]  So basically I, I, I sent an email to both NSI and register saying, uh, don't do that or we'll, you know, be very upset with you.
[34:09.490 --> 34:12.250]  NSI sent back a little tracking thing saying, this is not a receipt.
[34:12.370 --> 34:13.210]  This is, you know, whatever.
[34:13.650 --> 34:14.690]  I haven't heard anything from them.
[34:14.970 --> 34:18.230]  Register.com actually had a person get back to us immediately and they fixed it.
[34:18.370 --> 34:19.690]  So that's something to consider.
[34:20.490 --> 34:22.390]  Um, here's an interesting story, kind of a scary story.
[34:22.470 --> 34:25.030]  We're going to take phone calls, 212-209-2900 right after this.
[34:25.370 --> 34:25.950]  The U.S.
[34:26.250 --> 34:27.850]  Federal Bureau of Investigation, Isaac.
[34:28.070 --> 34:28.970]  That would be the FBI.
[34:28.970 --> 34:31.990]  Right, as you, see, this is why you're here, because you know these things.
[34:32.670 --> 34:33.790]  I have a use.
[34:33.970 --> 34:36.790]  Because using a super fast system called Carnivore, have you heard of this?
[34:37.530 --> 34:42.670]  Carnivore, to covertly search emails for messages from criminal suspects.
[34:43.230 --> 34:43.790]  Isaac.
[34:45.170 --> 34:45.490]  All right.
[34:45.710 --> 34:47.410]  Sounds like echelon, but domestic.
[34:47.650 --> 34:56.950]  Essentially, a personal computer stuffed with specialized software, Carnivore represents a new twist in the federal government's fight to sustain its snooping powers in the internet age.
[34:57.570 --> 34:58.010]  Sustained.
[34:58.250 --> 34:58.410]  Sustained.
[34:58.570 --> 34:58.650]  Sustained, isn't it?
[34:58.670 --> 34:59.710]  Whoa, whoa, whoa, back up here.
[34:59.970 --> 35:01.030]  That's newspeak, you know.
[35:01.130 --> 35:03.090]  It's basically, yeah, they always, we've always been at war.
[35:03.230 --> 35:03.650]  Oh, I see.
[35:04.070 --> 35:04.370]  Nothing new.
[35:04.510 --> 35:06.470]  Little Fourth Amendment thing just never came up.
[35:06.630 --> 35:14.790]  In employing the system which can scan millions of emails a second, the FBI has upset privacy advocates, and some in the computer industry.
[35:15.090 --> 35:15.530]  Some.
[35:16.550 --> 35:21.010]  Experts say the system opens a thicket of unresolved legal issues and privacy concerns.
[35:21.350 --> 35:24.070]  This person's really writing in kind of a nice style here.
[35:24.190 --> 35:24.470]  Thicket.
[35:24.470 --> 35:27.150]  Any time you can use thicket in a news story, I think it's a good thing.
[35:27.490 --> 35:39.230]  The FBI developed the internet wiretapping system at a special agency lab at Quantico, Virginia, and dubbed it Carnivore for its ability to get to the meat of what would otherwise be an enormous quantity of data.
[35:39.410 --> 35:43.430]  Okay, that pun is almost as bad as one of mine, and they get points for that very easily.
[35:43.430 --> 35:44.070]  Maybe they're hiring.
[35:44.370 --> 35:44.550]  Okay.
[35:44.550 --> 35:55.730]  FBI technicians unveiled the system to a room full of astonished industry specialists two weeks ago in order to steer efforts to develop standardized ways of complying with federal wiretaps.
[35:56.070 --> 36:01.830]  Federal investigators say they have used Carnivore in fewer than 100 criminal cases since its launch early last year.
[36:01.830 --> 36:06.390]  And I suppose they have a warrant for each and every one of those instances where they used it.
[36:06.830 --> 36:09.030]  Uh, yeah, I imagine.
[36:09.030 --> 36:09.630]  After the fact.
[36:09.830 --> 36:10.570]  Oh, of course.
[36:10.950 --> 36:14.090]  Word of the Carnivore system has disturbed many in the internet industry.
[36:14.330 --> 36:14.990]  Now it's many.
[36:15.330 --> 36:19.870]  Because when deployed, it must be hooked directly into internet service providers' computer networks.
[36:19.870 --> 36:27.130]  That would give the government, at least theoretically, the ability to eavesdrop on all customers' digital communications from email to online banking and web surfing.
[36:27.410 --> 36:28.550]  They would never do that.
[36:28.650 --> 36:33.690]  Just like CALEA, they would never just add a warrant, type in your phone number, and listen to what you're saying, ever.
[36:33.810 --> 36:34.710]  You have to have some faith.
[36:34.850 --> 36:36.570]  This is the data extension of CALEA.
[36:37.230 --> 36:46.110]  The system also troubles some, uh, well, okay, uh, yeah, troublesome internet service providers, um, who are loath to see outside software plugged into their systems.
[36:46.110 --> 36:57.710]  Uh, in many cases, in many cases, the FBI keeps the secret carnivore computer system in a locked cage on the provider's premises with agents making daily visits to retrieve the data captured from the provider's network.
[36:57.710 --> 36:58.870]  And this has to look really funny.
[36:59.250 --> 37:04.110]  Because it's a locked cage, which has, like, these two little, like, you know, plastic-coated things popping out the back.
[37:04.250 --> 37:06.450]  One of them is for ethernet, and the other one is for power.
[37:06.670 --> 37:09.370]  What would happen if someone were to walk by and just trip?
[37:09.630 --> 37:12.250]  Yeah, well, I imagine the cage probably extends to the wall.
[37:12.330 --> 37:13.030]  Oh, it extends to the wall?
[37:13.150 --> 37:13.370]  So that doesn't happen.
[37:13.450 --> 37:13.770]  Oh, I...
[37:13.770 --> 37:15.250]  If I was designing it, that's what I'd do.
[37:15.370 --> 37:15.930]  Oh, it wouldn't happen.
[37:16.110 --> 37:18.970]  Well, the FBI agent walked into the cage, and you lock it behind him.
[37:19.190 --> 37:20.210]  Yeah, that would be amusing.
[37:20.890 --> 37:27.050]  Legal challenges to the use of carnivore are few, and judges' rulings remain sealed because of the secretive nature of the investigations.
[37:27.270 --> 37:29.250]  This sounds like something out of science fiction.
[37:29.370 --> 37:29.730]  It really does.
[37:29.870 --> 37:31.010]  This is right here in the United States.
[37:32.090 --> 37:33.930]  Well, it's not only in the United States.
[37:34.090 --> 37:39.750]  Internet wiretaps are conducted only under state or federal judicial order and occur relatively infrequently.
[37:40.010 --> 37:43.810]  The huge majority of wiretaps continue to be the traditional telephone variety, although U.S.
[37:43.870 --> 37:51.990]  officials say the use of internet eavesdropping is growing as everyone, from drug dealers to potential terrorists, begins to conduct business over the web.
[37:52.110 --> 37:52.490]  There we go.
[37:52.570 --> 37:54.430]  The four horsemen of the privacy apocalypse.
[37:54.770 --> 37:57.510]  What's a website we can conduct terrorist business over?
[37:58.770 --> 37:59.490]  I just don't know.
[37:59.490 --> 38:00.930]  Oh, you know, does anybody here know?
[38:00.950 --> 38:01.610]  Hotmail.com.
[38:01.770 --> 38:06.750]  Yeah, you got the little Yahoo store for your various automatic weapons and, you know, weapons of mass destruction.
[38:07.230 --> 38:07.470]  Right.
[38:07.490 --> 38:08.930]  What are one kilo of anthrax?
[38:08.930 --> 38:09.950]  Hey, those are for hunting.
[38:10.270 --> 38:15.410]  The FBI defends carnivore as more precise than internet wiretap methods used in the past.
[38:15.550 --> 38:24.050]  The Bureau says the system allows investigators to tailor and intercept operations so they can pluck only the digital traffic of one person among the stream of millions of other messages.
[38:24.050 --> 38:34.050]  An earlier version, aptly codenamed Omnivore, could suck in as much as six gigabytes every hour, but in a less discriminating fashion.
[38:34.990 --> 38:39.410]  How about setting up a sham ISP just to get one of these boxes?
[38:39.730 --> 38:40.810]  How old is this story?
[38:40.970 --> 38:42.750]  This story came out two days ago.
[38:42.910 --> 38:43.130]  Okay.
[38:43.130 --> 38:43.810]  This is very recent.
[38:43.930 --> 38:44.170]  Yeah, very recent.
[38:44.170 --> 38:47.790]  Who here knows what has been going on in the UK for the past few months?
[38:48.430 --> 38:48.850]  Shana!
[38:49.050 --> 38:49.890]  Shana, go ahead, Shana.
[38:49.890 --> 38:58.290]  I know what's been going on in the UK, but about Echelon, what I wanted to tell you is, does anybody remember the Global Jam Echelon Day?
[38:58.590 --> 38:59.630]  Oh, that was a joke.
[39:00.490 --> 39:02.530]  That was like Global Jam, my mailbox day.
[39:02.750 --> 39:03.930]  Yeah, that was that too.
[39:04.270 --> 39:09.010]  Well, because apparently Echelon likes to see your name, apparently.
[39:10.290 --> 39:11.330]  Yeah, must be.
[39:11.870 --> 39:13.310]  But there's going to be a second one.
[39:13.450 --> 39:14.550]  I'm looking at the story.
[39:14.570 --> 39:15.090]  It's useless.
[39:15.470 --> 39:16.590]  There's no point to it.
[39:17.190 --> 39:17.790]  No point to what?
[39:17.830 --> 39:18.190]  To this?
[39:18.190 --> 39:20.510]  No, to the stupid Jam Echelon Day.
[39:20.750 --> 39:21.650]  Well, never mind that.
[39:21.830 --> 39:22.810]  We're veering off in attention.
[39:22.970 --> 39:24.410]  I'm more concerned with Carnivore here.
[39:24.530 --> 39:29.170]  Well, I was about to mention the RIP bill, which has been rolling around in the House of Lords recently.
[39:29.390 --> 39:31.370]  What bothers me, let's get back to this country here.
[39:31.490 --> 39:35.110]  It bothers me that this thing exists, and we didn't know it existed until the story came out.
[39:35.170 --> 39:46.490]  Yes, and the reason it exists, the reason that the story came out now is because the exact same thing has been rolling around in Parliament for the past few months, which is something I had wanted to bring up for some time.
[39:47.910 --> 39:57.650]  Basically, MI5 is rolling this wonderful little bill where they can drop machines in all the UK ISPs, and they receive every single packet that passes over the network.
[39:57.790 --> 40:01.430]  It all gets funneled off to a central location where they can start filtering for whatever they want.
[40:01.470 --> 40:05.170]  That's great, except I don't see any reference to that here, and we're talking about what's happening right here in this country.
[40:05.330 --> 40:07.370]  So I'm just trying to stay focused on that.
[40:07.370 --> 40:13.450]  Yeah, it's happening in other places too, but the fact that there's something called Carnivore out there that could be reading our mail, I think that's something we should be looking at.
[40:13.530 --> 40:34.910]  Well, I think people are probably picking up on it now too, because in light of the recent everything, the DOS and the virus and everything else, and people are having this mass hysteria about security online, and people are like, oh my god, I can't do banking online because I can't do this because somebody might read it.
[40:35.090 --> 40:37.730]  Well, it's the government who's going to be wanting to read it now.
[40:38.450 --> 40:43.290]  Well, I'm looking in this story for any mention of the potential risk of this being intercepted by hackers.
[40:43.790 --> 40:47.370]  Well, did it say there that, if I remember, they've only used it in a hundred cases?
[40:47.530 --> 40:48.310]  That's what they say.
[40:48.470 --> 40:51.650]  But at the same time, they know they can go through millions of emails a second.
[40:51.690 --> 40:54.050]  Those hundred people are sending a lot of email to each other.
[40:54.050 --> 41:00.650]  Well, basically, they say also that criminal and civil penalties prohibit the Bureau from placing unauthorized wiretaps...
[41:00.650 --> 41:01.290]  Oh, okay.
[41:01.350 --> 41:01.950]  I feel better now.
[41:02.050 --> 41:02.390]  Oh, of course not.
[41:02.390 --> 41:06.230]  Any information gleaned in those types of criminal cases will be thrown out of court.
[41:06.890 --> 41:10.990]  Typical internet wiretaps last around 45 days, after which the FBI removes the equipment.
[41:11.490 --> 41:15.770]  The Bureau usually has as many as 20 carnivore systems on hand, just in case.
[41:15.950 --> 41:18.170]  Bernie, you must be breathing easier now knowing that.
[41:18.770 --> 41:23.630]  I mean, this parallels what has happened with the wiretapping cases.
[41:24.050 --> 41:29.430]  Typically, a lot of people have heard about the LAPD's abuse of wiretaps.
[41:29.550 --> 41:46.230]  They would do illegal wiretaps, get what they felt was probable cause, then go through other means to obtain legal probable, legally obtain probable cause, and then get a legal wiretap, and then use that to arrest the individuals involved.
[41:46.230 --> 41:59.030]  So basically, there's nothing to prevent the FBI or whoever else is using this omnivore and carnivore systems from doing that, using this to basically manufacture a probable cause.
[41:59.170 --> 42:10.650]  Then when they, you know, through their dragnet, when they find something, they'll go about other means of finding, you know, secondary probable cause and using that to get a warrant, and they just won't use anything they found prior.
[42:10.650 --> 42:12.330]  Well, it's the oldest trick in the book.
[42:12.470 --> 42:25.570]  I mean, you basically, if you're a law enforcement agency, you get a dirty witness of some sort to do something illegal to get something on the guy that, you know, you really want, and then you simply find a way to legitimately get that information, and then you have him.
[42:25.830 --> 42:29.490]  You know, it's really, it's not very hard to figure that out.
[42:29.730 --> 42:31.270]  Bottom line, folks, watch out.
[42:31.470 --> 42:32.650]  Second Amendment's under fire.
[42:32.830 --> 42:33.650]  So is the Fourth.
[42:34.110 --> 42:35.570]  They're dropping like flies.
[42:35.570 --> 42:38.410]  Keep the Second Amendment to yourself, please.
[42:38.830 --> 42:39.890]  It's got nothing to do with this.
[42:39.970 --> 42:42.990]  The First Amendment is what I'm worried about, because that's, uh, that's really in danger.
[42:43.330 --> 42:45.550]  Really, you know, my future emails have nefarious intent.
[42:45.730 --> 42:52.450]  I plan to, right at the top of the message, drop in, 30-day diet plan, and down around the middle, put in, this is not multi-level marketing.
[42:54.010 --> 42:57.150]  I'm wondering what happens the first time someone roots one of these boxes.
[42:57.630 --> 42:57.810]  Yeah.
[42:57.990 --> 42:59.190]  Well, then, you know, that's the thing.
[42:59.350 --> 43:01.350]  You know, the hackers get to be there, they're the threat.
[43:01.510 --> 43:04.090]  You know, people don't see that, you know, the thing itself is the threat.
[43:04.430 --> 43:06.550]  Uh, just back up here.
[43:06.670 --> 43:09.390]  This isn't an amazing piece of technology, okay?
[43:09.490 --> 43:09.870]  No, it's not.
[43:09.970 --> 43:13.150]  It's a nick in promiscuous mode that's just looking at traffic go by.
[43:13.290 --> 43:13.470]  Exactly.
[43:13.630 --> 43:15.150]  You know, this is nothing special.
[43:15.230 --> 43:16.190]  All right, what can people do to protect themselves?
[43:16.190 --> 43:19.330]  Any hacker who can sit on any machine can do the same thing that this box does.
[43:19.450 --> 43:19.750]  Absolutely.
[43:19.890 --> 43:21.410]  But why make it look like spam?
[43:21.550 --> 43:21.950]  There you go.
[43:22.730 --> 43:25.590]  But in order to protect yourself, obviously, encryption is the best way to go.
[43:25.730 --> 43:25.850]  Yes.
[43:26.050 --> 43:28.190]  But it's got to be encryption that you use.
[43:28.270 --> 43:31.510]  Not just that you use for the important stuff, you use for everything, you know?
[43:31.590 --> 43:33.190]  And anything unencrypted gets ignored.
[43:33.190 --> 43:35.130]  So, basically, spam would have to be encrypted.
[43:35.310 --> 43:36.790]  And, you know, who's going to do that?
[43:37.910 --> 43:39.990]  That's a good way to get rid of that problem.
[43:40.710 --> 43:43.290]  Uh, 212-209-2900 is our phone number.
[43:43.450 --> 43:45.030]  We're here in the studio with a lot of people.
[43:45.350 --> 43:50.390]  Uh, getting ready for the, uh, H2K conference in only a matter of days.
[43:50.610 --> 43:51.930]  So, let's take some phone calls.
[43:52.010 --> 43:55.070]  People have, uh, suggestions, questions, adventures to relate to us.
[43:55.790 --> 43:57.090]  212-209-2900.
[43:57.470 --> 43:58.070]  Good evening.
[43:58.230 --> 43:58.830]  You're on the air.
[44:00.130 --> 44:00.530]  Hello?
[44:00.750 --> 44:01.190]  Yes, go ahead.
[44:02.030 --> 44:03.930]  I was, I, I tuned in late.
[44:03.990 --> 44:07.130]  I was wondering whatever happened with Verizon Wireless and, uh, lawsuit.
[44:07.470 --> 44:10.210]  Uh, well, there actually wasn't a lawsuit filed.
[44:10.430 --> 44:14.290]  They just sent a, uh, a threat because we, we registered Verizon really sucks.
[44:14.370 --> 44:21.330]  Now, it wasn't really, uh, Verizon Wireless that, uh, you know, it was a company called Verizon, which is going to be a lot more than Verizon Wireless.
[44:21.490 --> 44:22.270]  It's going to be Bell Atlantic.
[44:22.490 --> 44:23.350]  It's going to be GTE.
[44:23.730 --> 44:24.990]  It's going to be a lot of things.
[44:24.990 --> 44:27.890]  So, it's, it's, it's going to be very, uh, parent company.
[44:28.650 --> 44:29.290]  Yeah, exactly.
[44:29.490 --> 44:32.570]  Well, uh, the company that forms from, from merging these companies together, yes.
[44:33.370 --> 44:34.810]  So, uh, they haven't done anything yet.
[44:34.910 --> 44:40.190]  We don't know for sure if they will, but, uh, we still have VerizonReallySucks.com and, uh, you know, we're going to do some big fun with it.
[44:40.370 --> 44:40.850]  Yeah, oh, definitely.
[44:41.050 --> 44:41.750]  We're not giving that away.
[44:42.390 --> 44:48.470]  Somebody suggested, in fact, that, uh, they register, uh, some other sites, um, with Verizon's name.
[44:48.470 --> 44:49.970]  Like, we love Verizon.com.
[44:50.230 --> 44:54.930]  Would they come after somebody if, if they had a nice, you know, site?
[44:55.110 --> 44:55.630]  I think so.
[44:55.790 --> 44:56.370]  Yeah, I think they would.
[44:56.550 --> 45:00.230]  And many, many people have now registered more of Verizon names.
[45:00.470 --> 45:04.110]  Yeah, it's almost like they cause themselves more trouble just by doing that.
[45:05.350 --> 45:07.250]  All right, 212-209-2900.
[45:08.030 --> 45:09.170]  Evening, you're on the air.
[45:10.330 --> 45:11.410]  Sound like you just hung up.
[45:11.550 --> 45:11.650]  Ah!
[45:11.650 --> 45:12.590]  Oh, yeah, I'm dead on the radio.
[45:14.430 --> 45:15.470]  All right, how you doing?
[45:15.550 --> 45:15.830]  Okay.
[45:16.190 --> 45:17.650]  Didn't think you were going to get on that fast, did you?
[45:18.370 --> 45:19.790]  Yeah, I picked one of the last lines.
[45:19.890 --> 45:20.090]  Go ahead.
[45:20.310 --> 45:31.470]  Okay, what I wanted to ask, basically, was just about, uh, I'd heard you guys talk, and I think a week or two ago, I don't know, about products other than Microsoft, as far as, like, a browser and an email and, you know, a newsreader.
[45:31.710 --> 45:32.010]  Right.
[45:32.410 --> 45:38.370]  So I'm wondering what kind of, like, you know, uh, any names of any alternative browsers and whatnot that I could look into.
[45:38.470 --> 45:39.010]  You're on Windows?
[45:39.190 --> 45:39.450]  Go ahead.
[45:39.550 --> 45:39.670]  Yeah.
[45:40.150 --> 45:41.930]  Go to 2cows.com.
[45:42.110 --> 45:43.910]  T-U-C-O-W-S.com.
[45:43.930 --> 45:44.510]  Yeah, I know who you speak of.
[45:44.510 --> 45:44.970]  Okay.
[45:45.210 --> 45:48.050]  They've got whole sections just full of newsreaders.
[45:48.210 --> 45:50.250]  You've got, like, 14 bazillion of them.
[45:50.470 --> 45:50.790]  Okay.
[45:50.910 --> 45:55.970]  And I just choose 14 bazillion as an arbitrary number, which has no reflection upon the actual number of, you know, programs on the site.
[45:56.150 --> 45:56.350]  All right.
[45:56.430 --> 46:00.090]  Uh, shareware, freeware, commercial, whole nine yards.
[46:00.290 --> 46:00.590]  Okay.
[46:00.590 --> 46:07.250]  Well, let me ask, well, what I'm, I've kind of gone that route and I'm kind of like sifting through a lot of, you know what I'm saying?
[46:07.410 --> 46:07.610]  Right.
[46:08.030 --> 46:14.430]  So, uh, can you guys recommend anything in particular, especially something that I can integrate security or some encryption with?
[46:14.430 --> 46:15.250]  What do you use, Isaac?
[46:15.410 --> 46:18.770]  I don't use Windows, so I'm, I'm not, I'm not helpful.
[46:19.030 --> 46:20.650]  If you were using Windows.
[46:20.930 --> 46:23.730]  Uh, if I were using Windows, I would probably shoot myself.
[46:24.110 --> 46:26.490]  Well, there's no web browser that's terribly secure.
[46:26.490 --> 46:37.490]  It's just that when you go to a secure website, uh, HTTPS colon slash slash, uh, your web browser will set up a form of publicly known encryption, uh, SSL.
[46:37.970 --> 46:39.690]  Yeah, uh, secure socket layer.
[46:40.070 --> 46:43.870]  But, uh, there is no such thing as a secure browser per se.
[46:44.450 --> 46:45.590]  Yeah, I understand this.
[46:45.650 --> 46:54.010]  What I have seen is stuff that integrates into the browsers, though, so that way with a left click, I mean a right click, excuse me, you could, uh, encrypt stuff.
[46:54.010 --> 46:59.450]  What I have seen is where email can be integrated with PGP, pretty good privacy.
[47:00.070 --> 47:03.650]  Um, and that, of course, goes over the web by your email.
[47:03.890 --> 47:04.270]  Okay.
[47:04.670 --> 47:08.750]  Um, but for websites itself, I can't say as I've seen that.
[47:09.010 --> 47:11.510]  Yeah, the medium is just too dumb to deal with.
[47:11.630 --> 47:11.890]  Yeah, I hear you.
[47:12.610 --> 47:23.670]  Okay, the one other thing I wanted to ask real quick was, as far as encryption goes, would you recommend encrypting certain files, encrypting the whole drive and have, and, you know, every time?
[47:24.010 --> 47:28.190]  Encrypt everything, because if you encrypt everything, then people don't know what's important and what isn't.
[47:28.230 --> 47:30.530]  You just encrypt the important stuff, then they focus on that.
[47:30.670 --> 47:34.010]  Well, you have to weigh, uh, your, your risks here.
[47:34.330 --> 47:40.050]  Is your data so important that you're willing to sit there for a few minutes waiting for it to decrypt whenever you use it?
[47:40.170 --> 47:41.330]  Okay, that's what I'm talking about.
[47:41.490 --> 47:44.150]  You basically, I mean, that's a model that only you can come up with.
[47:44.230 --> 47:44.970]  That's the trade-offs.
[47:45.190 --> 47:45.350]  Yeah.
[47:46.050 --> 47:46.230]  Okay.
[47:46.250 --> 47:49.590]  I mean, it's going to take time to encrypt and decrypt everything all the time.
[47:49.590 --> 47:53.970]  You have to assume that, that you will be compromised somehow, in some way.
[47:54.130 --> 47:56.530]  Either somebody will figure out a way onto your system, or they'll intercept your mail.
[47:56.850 --> 47:57.430]  Yeah, with money and or time.
[47:57.610 --> 48:00.790]  Or you'll throw out a hard drive, and somebody will read it, you know.
[48:00.950 --> 48:02.270]  Things like this happen all the time.
[48:02.450 --> 48:05.710]  So, by all means, uh, you know, plan for that.
[48:05.950 --> 48:06.970]  Thanks, uh, thanks for the call.
[48:07.010 --> 48:09.110]  Let's go on to another listener phone call.
[48:09.230 --> 48:09.510]  Good evening.
[48:09.630 --> 48:10.290]  You're on the air.
[48:10.290 --> 48:11.130]  Yes, hello.
[48:11.370 --> 48:15.570]  I'd just like to remind people to bring their antique and old computers to my retro table.
[48:15.570 --> 48:16.450]  This is the retro computer.
[48:16.690 --> 48:17.130]  This is the retro fellow.
[48:17.410 --> 48:17.670]  Great.
[48:17.870 --> 48:18.810]  I'm bringing my TICAL.
[48:18.890 --> 48:20.830]  We've had quite a lot of response to this so far.
[48:21.150 --> 48:23.690]  Um, how many, how many people have contacted you?
[48:24.290 --> 48:29.090]  Actually, um, it's a number between 7 and 10.
[48:29.350 --> 48:30.110]  That's pretty good.
[48:30.250 --> 48:31.090]  That's, that's not bad.
[48:31.210 --> 48:31.490]  Yeah.
[48:31.490 --> 48:36.470]  And I, I have a feeling more people are interested, but I don't know yet who's bringing their stuff.
[48:36.770 --> 48:36.950]  Mm-hmm.
[48:37.150 --> 48:40.250]  That's 7 to 10 plus 1, because I knew I threw my Model 100 computer.
[48:40.290 --> 48:41.590]  I threw my backpack for some good reason.
[48:41.890 --> 48:41.970]  Excellent.
[48:42.910 --> 48:43.370]  But, uh...
[48:43.370 --> 48:44.050]  It's a great computer.
[48:44.370 --> 48:44.850]  It is.
[48:45.870 --> 48:47.910]  Um, hopefully a lot of people will bring their stuff.
[48:48.410 --> 48:53.070]  And, uh, Sam Nitzberg and I are trying to figure out a way to network them together.
[48:53.690 --> 48:53.950]  Mm-hmm.
[48:54.070 --> 48:54.230]  Oh.
[48:54.870 --> 48:55.270]  Good luck.
[48:55.570 --> 48:56.410]  With serial ports, maybe.
[48:56.730 --> 48:57.050]  Yeah.
[48:57.130 --> 48:58.610]  We have a whole weekend to figure that out.
[48:58.810 --> 48:59.130]  The magic of slip, yeah.
[48:59.750 --> 49:05.530]  What we were going to try and do is dial, maybe dial into a Unix box and have some kind of terminal emulation.
[49:05.530 --> 49:08.390]  You need to run a bulletin board system that we can all log into and check.
[49:08.390 --> 49:08.950]  There you go.
[49:09.150 --> 49:10.150]  That's the winner, I think.
[49:10.150 --> 49:10.310]  Yeah.
[49:10.310 --> 49:10.790]  I think right there.
[49:11.490 --> 49:11.690]  Yeah.
[49:11.910 --> 49:16.090]  You see, one of the biggest problems with this retrocomputing panel is that we're going to have to reinforce the stage.
[49:16.930 --> 49:17.270]  This...
[49:18.630 --> 49:19.190]  You know, just...
[49:19.650 --> 49:23.050]  The world's greatest convention of hand trucks is going to arrive at one place.
[49:23.050 --> 49:24.670]  I don't know if the Univac is really going to make it.
[49:24.830 --> 49:25.390]  I know.
[49:25.550 --> 49:27.330]  Not a UPS to hold Osborne up.
[49:27.530 --> 49:27.910]  Right, you know.
[49:28.990 --> 49:29.910]  Well, um...
[49:29.910 --> 49:33.130]  I'd like to see some, like, you know, Soviet-style computers be brought up.
[49:33.230 --> 49:34.170]  That would be kind of cool.
[49:34.270 --> 49:34.390]  Cool.
[49:34.390 --> 49:34.790]  Yeah.
[49:35.230 --> 49:35.790]  So, uh...
[49:35.790 --> 49:39.470]  Does anyone remember at Hope, back in 94, someone brought a, uh...
[49:39.470 --> 49:41.950]  an Intel 8080 development system.
[49:42.050 --> 49:44.890]  And it was this huge rack-mounted thing that was set on the floor.
[49:45.090 --> 49:47.650]  It was just there for anybody to do anything with.
[49:47.710 --> 49:50.550]  And actually, some guy sat down, and it took him all weekend.
[49:50.550 --> 49:52.130]  But he finally, uh...
[49:52.130 --> 49:53.590]  was able to, uh...
[49:53.590 --> 49:54.830]  generate an application with it.
[49:54.950 --> 49:56.170]  And write an application for this thing.
[49:56.290 --> 49:56.950]  And got it to do something.
[49:57.090 --> 49:58.070]  I forget what he got it to do.
[49:58.310 --> 49:58.630]  That's good stuff.
[49:58.810 --> 49:59.150]  But, uh...
[49:59.150 --> 49:59.750]  The thing was huge.
[49:59.810 --> 50:00.950]  It weighed, like, 200 pounds.
[50:02.730 --> 50:03.090]  Neat.
[50:03.910 --> 50:04.190]  All right.
[50:04.250 --> 50:05.050]  Well, we look forward to that.
[50:05.170 --> 50:06.270]  That panel is set for when?
[50:06.850 --> 50:09.430]  Um, that's Saturday at 11 a.m.
[50:09.790 --> 50:12.910]  And the retro table, which will...
[50:12.910 --> 50:19.950]  I don't know where we're going to set that up, but hopefully that will run all weekend from after the panel to the rest of the weekend.
[50:19.950 --> 50:25.430]  Well, unfortunately, I'll be giving one of my panels at that same time, but I'm definitely going to drop my Model 100 off to you.
[50:25.730 --> 50:26.050]  Okay.
[50:27.030 --> 50:27.750]  And, um...
[50:27.750 --> 50:35.670]  Even if you can't bring your computer, we need experienced programmers, coders, who are familiar with older systems.
[50:36.710 --> 50:37.070]  Yeah.
[50:37.190 --> 50:37.690]  They're out there.
[50:37.870 --> 50:38.530]  They definitely are.
[50:38.950 --> 50:39.310]  So...
[50:39.310 --> 50:39.590]  All right.
[50:39.650 --> 50:40.150]  Look forward to it.
[50:40.210 --> 50:40.650]  I look forward to see you.
[50:40.770 --> 50:41.050]  All right.
[50:41.110 --> 50:41.370]  Take care.
[50:41.430 --> 50:41.510]  Bye.
[50:42.910 --> 50:46.910]  That's just one of many panels that we are going to have, so, um...
[50:46.910 --> 50:47.390]  Show up.
[50:48.550 --> 50:51.390]  Starting Thursday night, we're doing the set-up Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
[50:51.470 --> 50:52.690]  The conference takes place, and...
[50:53.550 --> 50:57.570]  Boy, you know, I really wish, like, next week we could just sort of relax and, uh...
[50:57.570 --> 50:58.410]  You know, take it all in.
[50:58.470 --> 50:59.790]  But we're going to be on trial next week.
[50:59.810 --> 51:01.930]  It's going to be living hell, you know?
[51:02.150 --> 51:03.190]  Well, you don't have to do much.
[51:04.070 --> 51:04.630]  I guess.
[51:04.990 --> 51:05.490]  I don't know.
[51:05.550 --> 51:08.570]  I've never been on trial before, so, you know, I have to sit there and look nice, I suppose.
[51:08.910 --> 51:09.770]  They look pretty.
[51:09.890 --> 51:10.330]  Hey, Manuel.
[51:10.530 --> 51:10.810]  Yes.
[51:11.390 --> 51:19.770]  When I got home this evening, as I started putting more of these badges, I turned on my television to have background noise, and that biography show on, I guess, A&E was on.
[51:19.970 --> 51:29.090]  And, sure enough, they were featuring a famous legal case back in the 50s, the MPAA versus Howard Hughes.
[51:29.550 --> 51:30.370]  Oh, wow.
[51:30.830 --> 51:34.810]  The MPAA actually sued Howard Hughes back in 1950-something.
[51:35.070 --> 51:36.470]  It's a clash of the titans, isn't it?
[51:36.470 --> 51:43.750]  And Howard Hughes actually won that case, but it was quite an expensive legal ordeal point.
[51:43.750 --> 51:44.390]  I forget what it was.
[51:44.470 --> 51:46.230]  It was about a particular movie, and I forget what it was.
[51:46.370 --> 51:47.690]  This is quite an expensive legal campaign, too.
[51:47.690 --> 51:48.070]  No, it was.
[51:48.190 --> 51:48.790]  It was about...
[51:48.790 --> 51:50.550]  It was about...
[51:50.550 --> 51:52.430]  Who was the actress in...
[51:52.430 --> 51:53.530]  What's the name of that movie?
[51:53.930 --> 51:58.890]  There was an actress that showed a little bit too much cleavage, and the MPAA said, nope, you can't do that.
[51:59.290 --> 52:00.870]  And Howard Hughes said, screw that.
[52:01.030 --> 52:08.410]  So he offered it to all the other theaters who didn't care about the MPAA seal of approval at the time.
[52:08.530 --> 52:09.130]  It was before raiding.
[52:09.370 --> 52:11.790]  And the MPAA went ballistic and sued him.
[52:12.010 --> 52:13.830]  And he eventually won.
[52:13.970 --> 52:14.890]  He got the thing struck down.
[52:15.010 --> 52:15.990]  But it was quite a fight.
[52:16.870 --> 52:18.310]  Independent distribution channels.
[52:18.490 --> 52:18.630]  Wow.
[52:18.710 --> 52:19.050]  That's it.
[52:19.110 --> 52:21.230]  And that's exactly what the MPAA is still against.
[52:21.930 --> 52:22.370]  Yep.
[52:22.910 --> 52:23.070]  Wow.
[52:23.930 --> 52:24.370]  Okay.
[52:25.010 --> 52:25.930]  Let's move on.
[52:25.930 --> 52:28.270]  Is that Chris from the AV department over there?
[52:28.390 --> 52:28.690]  Yes.
[52:29.530 --> 52:31.190]  We've heard updates from everybody else.
[52:31.190 --> 52:33.930]  So how's AV coming for the conference?
[52:34.270 --> 52:34.890]  Hold that, Mike.
[52:35.950 --> 52:36.870]  Things are going pretty well.
[52:36.990 --> 52:39.490]  We had a small emergency with one of the vendors dropping out.
[52:39.630 --> 52:41.450]  But we pretty much recovered.
[52:42.070 --> 52:43.310]  I'm not going to mention any names.
[52:43.410 --> 52:48.930]  Just so people know what kind of a conference this is, they said they were kind of flipped out by the content.
[52:49.070 --> 52:50.110]  And they were kind of conservative.
[52:50.110 --> 52:51.290]  And they said, oh, my God.
[52:52.210 --> 52:53.450]  We can't have any part of that.
[52:53.530 --> 52:55.070]  These are the people that are going to be recording it.
[52:55.250 --> 53:02.090]  They were a little worried about, you know, possible lawsuits from people, you know, who are giving speeches.
[53:02.390 --> 53:03.090]  That's what we do.
[53:03.670 --> 53:05.050]  We sue people left and right.
[53:05.210 --> 53:05.730]  We always sue.
[53:05.890 --> 53:06.270]  Oh, yeah.
[53:06.750 --> 53:09.490]  Well, I think what really concerned them is that nobody was using their real name.
[53:09.970 --> 53:11.070]  I tried to explain that.
[53:12.470 --> 53:13.650]  I tried to explain that mostly.
[53:14.890 --> 53:15.830]  Releases are a big deal.
[53:15.990 --> 53:16.790]  You need to get them signed.
[53:17.190 --> 53:17.330]  Yeah.
[53:17.910 --> 53:21.830]  And they were worried about their release is signed by people, you know, aren't even giving their real name.
[53:21.910 --> 53:23.650]  Sign them all the same names that are on them.
[53:23.770 --> 53:24.510]  That's the hard part.
[53:24.610 --> 53:25.470]  They didn't want to deal with that hassle.
[53:25.570 --> 53:26.010]  Don't blame them.
[53:26.010 --> 53:26.570]  All right.
[53:26.690 --> 53:29.350]  Well, no, I blame them for telling us this yesterday.
[53:29.630 --> 53:30.570]  That's what I blame them for.
[53:30.650 --> 53:34.990]  Well, I guess what happens is they didn't actually look at the website until we had a final schedule, and I gave that to them.
[53:35.190 --> 53:36.090]  Well, in any event...
[53:36.090 --> 53:40.430]  Then you pulled out the contract that stated that they were going to do this, and they did what?
[53:40.750 --> 53:41.050]  Uh-huh.
[53:41.190 --> 53:42.270]  Or did we not have a contract?
[53:43.030 --> 53:46.110]  No, the contract is waiting until we had a definite number of...
[53:46.110 --> 53:46.130]  Oh, okay.
[53:46.970 --> 53:49.350]  Well, in any event, all that's being taken care of.
[53:49.430 --> 53:52.870]  Is there anything that we need that maybe the magical listeners out there can help us with?
[53:53.390 --> 53:55.690]  I think we've pretty much gotten stuff taken care of.
[53:56.190 --> 53:59.430]  A couple of volunteers really stepped up, got us the video stuff we needed.
[54:00.890 --> 54:01.990]  That's what always happens.
[54:02.110 --> 54:05.450]  Every conference, we always have volunteers that step forward and help us out.
[54:05.710 --> 54:08.350]  The DHP people have always done that for us out of Pittsburgh.
[54:08.350 --> 54:12.930]  Every year, they come, and they bring these magical things that just save our asses every time.
[54:13.350 --> 54:13.570]  Yeah.
[54:13.750 --> 54:19.130]  I think the only thing we're really losing is we're just not going to have on-site duplication, but everything else is going to be in place, I think.
[54:19.130 --> 54:19.670]  Okay.
[54:19.830 --> 54:24.230]  Well, if anybody there has an on-site duplication company with lots of staff that they want to bring by...
[54:24.670 --> 54:32.330]  Remember, you can only have 29 VCRs, because once you hit 30, you become an MPAA-specified duplication facility.
[54:32.410 --> 54:32.790]  That's right.
[54:34.610 --> 54:40.190]  Bernie, we have to let you go now, because we want to check in really quickly with Kevin, and we can't have the two of you on the line at the same time.
[54:40.190 --> 54:40.890]  We can't be on the air at the same time.
[54:40.890 --> 54:45.170]  We can't be on the air at the same time, so we're going to call Kevin really quickly in the last moments of the show.
[54:45.370 --> 54:47.130]  Bernie, we're going to see you at the conference starting...
[54:47.130 --> 54:48.910]  Either Thursday, Thursday afternoon.
[54:49.210 --> 54:52.510]  Starting Thursday for set-up, and throughout the weekend, it's going to be a lot of fun.
[54:52.910 --> 54:53.150]  Great.
[54:53.310 --> 54:53.630]  See you there.
[54:53.910 --> 54:54.410]  See you, Bernie.
[54:54.770 --> 54:55.110]  Thank you.
[54:55.310 --> 54:58.250]  While you're dialing, can I just clear up where I was last week?
[54:59.350 --> 55:00.210]  Floating in a pool.
[55:00.870 --> 55:02.490]  Okay, you've come up with a story.
[55:02.490 --> 55:03.030]  Go right ahead.
[55:04.170 --> 55:05.090]  Story time, kids.
[55:05.210 --> 55:05.610]  Gather around.
[55:05.710 --> 55:06.370]  I was floating in a pool.
[55:06.650 --> 55:10.130]  I had my cell phone right next to me, and I figured you might care enough to call.
[55:10.350 --> 55:11.470]  Just like you called Bernie.
[55:12.410 --> 55:14.430]  I figured you'd call, but you didn't.
[55:15.990 --> 55:16.730]  Nobody loves you.
[55:16.750 --> 55:17.210]  That's where I was.
[55:17.290 --> 55:18.130]  Nobody loves me, you know?
[55:18.290 --> 55:20.530]  I never got the I love you virus either.
[55:20.730 --> 55:23.610]  That was my first evidence that no one loves me.
[55:23.790 --> 55:24.650]  It was very sad.
[55:24.670 --> 55:26.030]  Well, that has to do with not running Microsoft.
[55:26.410 --> 55:26.990]  Well, that's true.
[55:27.330 --> 55:29.430]  Well, I don't run Microsoft, but I don't even...
[55:29.430 --> 55:30.190]  Everyone quiet.
[55:30.350 --> 55:31.270]  Kevin Mitnick's coming on the phone.
[55:31.350 --> 55:31.510]  Oh, sorry.
[55:31.910 --> 55:34.230]  Let's see if we actually reach him here.
[55:36.730 --> 55:38.070]  Calling live to Kevin.
[55:39.450 --> 55:42.810]  Kevin, it's Emanuel live on WBAI Radio in New York.
[55:43.490 --> 55:44.110]  Hey, Emanuel.
[55:44.150 --> 55:44.710]  How are you doing?
[55:44.770 --> 55:45.110]  How are you doing?
[55:45.730 --> 55:50.930]  We're just calling you in the last moments of the show because we kicked Bernie off the line so the two of you won't accidentally meet.
[55:51.790 --> 55:55.390]  So, bad news as far as your presence at the conference.
[55:55.390 --> 56:00.290]  They denied the request to have you present at the premiere of the film, which is about your life.
[56:00.790 --> 56:03.650]  It's unbelievable what they're doing to you, and I'm really sorry about that.
[56:03.650 --> 56:06.810]  But we will have you there somehow over the phone.
[56:07.030 --> 56:08.850]  If anybody has a satellite connection, we can borrow.
[56:09.090 --> 56:09.910]  We'll do it that way.
[56:10.630 --> 56:12.310]  But any thoughts from you, Kevin?
[56:12.430 --> 56:24.690]  Yeah, I'm pretty disappointed that the probation department has taken the position that they're not going to allow me to travel anywhere except maybe to visit family in Las Vegas, Nevada.
[56:25.430 --> 56:37.890]  And I did submit a request, as you know, to attend H2K primarily because of the premiere of the Freedom Downtime.
[56:38.030 --> 56:41.470]  Yeah, we were willing to just have you attend the premiere of the film just to see the film.
[56:41.590 --> 56:45.230]  And then, you know, you could be ushered off in a black car someplace, and that would be the end of it.
[56:45.450 --> 56:46.670]  Yeah, it's about a black helicopter.
[56:46.670 --> 56:47.130]  Exactly.
[56:47.730 --> 56:55.190]  You didn't have to say a word to anybody or, you know, or in any way, I don't know, corrupt somebody's mind just by saying what's on your mind?
[56:55.930 --> 57:04.490]  I mean, in addition, I mean, I was invited to present a music award at the Yahoo Online Music Awards at Studio 54 on July 24th.
[57:04.610 --> 57:04.890]  Wow.
[57:05.010 --> 57:12.330]  And I requested just to go to New York for that evening and fly back, and they declined to allow me to attend.
[57:12.330 --> 57:24.050]  But the good news is, as I heard from my probation officer yesterday, and they are going to approve, you know, some of the requests that I made, you know, for employment.
[57:24.490 --> 57:28.290]  You know, specifically, they're going to allow me to write for a content bill.
[57:28.550 --> 57:37.850]  They're going to allow me to, you know, to work as a technical consultant on a cyber show series.
[57:37.850 --> 57:38.550]  Uh-huh.
[57:38.670 --> 57:45.150]  And they're going to allow me to do one speaking engagement in Los Angeles that's going to be at the end of September.
[57:45.750 --> 57:55.130]  So they're... so it seems like they're not... it seems like they're exercising their discretion and allowing me to, you know, to start making a living now.
[57:55.270 --> 57:55.510]  I know.
[57:55.510 --> 57:56.270]  It's a great relief.
[57:56.450 --> 58:00.330]  It's amazing, though, that you have to ask permission to speak in your own hometown, you know?
[58:00.530 --> 58:00.770]  Yeah.
[58:01.090 --> 58:01.650]  That's unbelievable.
[58:01.970 --> 58:06.890]  I do, and that opportunity is until the end of September, so that's two months down the road.
[58:06.890 --> 58:16.630]  The content bill, you know, is... I have to contact them to see, but it might not be until next month, because they just launched this month.
[58:17.130 --> 58:26.910]  So, you know, everything's been very time-consuming, and, you know, finally, even though I have just gotten word, I still have to, you know, put everything together.
[58:27.110 --> 58:27.830]  Well, Kevin...
[58:27.830 --> 58:28.950]  But that's the good news.
[58:29.030 --> 58:29.210]  Yeah.
[58:29.330 --> 58:32.970]  We're out of time, unfortunately, but we promise to have some kind of L.A.
[58:33.110 --> 58:36.230]  screening of the film so that you will get to see it, and we'll work it out somehow.
[58:36.230 --> 58:45.030]  I'm going to miss saying it, and I hope I can at least participate via, like, a video link or telephone link, you know, during H2K, so I can kind of be there in spirit.
[58:45.190 --> 58:46.490]  Well, that's one of the challenges...
[58:46.830 --> 58:50.650]  That's one of the challenges we're going to undertake in the next couple of days, so we'll work it out.
[58:50.830 --> 58:52.910]  Attendees will definitely hear from you one way or another.
[58:53.390 --> 58:54.230]  Kevin, best of luck.
[58:54.290 --> 58:55.050]  We'll talk to you soon.
[58:55.230 --> 58:55.630]  All right.
[58:55.870 --> 58:59.890]  Best of luck, and I look forward to talking to you, hopefully, Friday, Saturday.
[59:00.190 --> 59:00.450]  Okay.
[59:00.670 --> 59:00.990]  Take care.
[59:01.470 --> 59:01.890]  You too.
[59:06.230 --> 59:06.230]  All right.
[59:06.690 --> 59:07.770]  Thanks, everybody, for showing up.
[59:07.890 --> 59:14.810]  Too many of you to say the names, so we'll hopefully see you back next week for the post-mortem or whatever, see how things go.
[59:14.850 --> 59:15.230]  Oh, that's good.
[59:15.450 --> 59:15.630]  Yeah.
[59:16.070 --> 59:16.330]  Good night.
[59:16.530 --> 59:18.370]  Until then, Manuel Goldstein, see you at the conference.
[59:18.490 --> 59:18.630]  Good night.
[59:18.810 --> 59:18.910]  Bye.
[59:19.290 --> 59:19.730]  Bye-bye.
[59:19.730 --> 59:19.770]  Bye-bye.