[00:00.000 --> 00:02.040]  River Afternoon Breeze.
[00:02.160 --> 00:03.600]  That's from 2 to 8 p.m.
[00:04.560 --> 00:05.680]  on Pier 63.
[00:06.100 --> 00:08.260]  Be there or be triangular.
[00:39.880 --> 00:43.780]  Wake Up Call from 6 to 8 a.m., followed by Democracy Now!
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[00:45.100 --> 00:51.080]  At 5 p.m., tune in to Behind the News, followed by the evening news coverage at 6 and 11.
[00:51.460 --> 01:00.120]  That's beginning Monday, July 31st through Friday, August 4th on WBAI 99.5 FM.
[01:00.120 --> 01:05.860]  For news and analysis unlike any, you'll hear anywhere else in the world.
[01:09.720 --> 01:12.680]  Make God thy gold refined!
[01:19.120 --> 01:23.620]  And you're listening to radio station WBAI in New York City.
[01:23.820 --> 01:25.540]  The time is just about 8 o'clock.
[01:25.720 --> 01:27.940]  Time once again for Off the Hook.
[01:35.050 --> 01:39.530]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:40.510 --> 01:45.050]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[01:45.870 --> 01:47.990]  We couldn't get much worse.
[01:50.410 --> 01:53.390]  Fond du lit bon for the best, expect the worst.
[01:54.150 --> 01:55.930]  I hope that's understood.
[01:56.250 --> 01:56.910]  Fond du lit bon!
[02:55.010 --> 02:56.230]  And good evening to everybody.
[02:56.230 --> 02:57.390]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:57.930 --> 03:01.450]  I'm Manuel Goldstein here with you on this Tuesday night.
[03:01.450 --> 03:06.110]  Very busy night because we have all kinds of things going on all around the country.
[03:06.390 --> 03:10.030]  We have the Republican Convention happening down in Philadelphia, which I just got back from.
[03:10.030 --> 03:12.890]  And boy, that was rather fun and interesting.
[03:13.090 --> 03:14.810]  We're going to get Bernie S.
[03:14.910 --> 03:19.170]  on the line just a moment to talk about some things going on down there in Philadelphia.
[03:19.950 --> 03:21.330]  We've got Del Chai here in the studio.
[03:21.470 --> 03:22.070]  Del Chai, how are you doing?
[03:23.310 --> 03:23.610]  Greetings.
[03:23.990 --> 03:24.330]  Ah, yes.
[03:24.570 --> 03:24.990]  Yes, here I am.
[03:24.990 --> 03:26.010]  The microphone is working today.
[03:26.150 --> 03:26.350]  Okay.
[03:26.770 --> 03:30.910]  And you have very interesting experience, which we'll get to in just a moment.
[03:31.530 --> 03:38.350]  I've just gotten some interesting information that I think everybody should be aware of as well.
[03:38.430 --> 03:39.110]  Well, let's get Bernie S.
[03:39.210 --> 03:39.850]  on the line first.
[03:40.590 --> 03:41.450]  Let's get a dial tone.
[03:42.090 --> 03:42.550]  All right.
[03:42.990 --> 03:44.290]  Now we're going to call Bernie S.
[03:48.160 --> 03:48.560]  Okay.
[03:48.980 --> 03:51.180]  It sounds like we didn't crack the dial tone there, doesn't it?
[03:51.320 --> 03:51.840]  No, we didn't.
[03:53.680 --> 03:55.480]  Yeah, nothing seems to be working.
[03:55.580 --> 03:59.020]  Okay, let's hang that one up and get another one.
[04:01.000 --> 04:01.560]  All right.
[04:02.400 --> 04:03.060]  Does this one work?
[04:03.440 --> 04:03.800]  Good.
[04:06.120 --> 04:08.760]  Now you know the first number in his phone number is one.
[04:09.040 --> 04:09.140]  Oh.
[04:10.800 --> 04:11.440]  If he notes.
[04:11.640 --> 04:12.840]  Yeah, do that, please.
[04:13.700 --> 04:15.040]  Waiting for the secret access code.
[04:15.180 --> 04:16.640]  Okay, now we enter that.
[04:18.380 --> 04:19.640]  And let's see if we get Bernie S.
[04:19.680 --> 04:20.060]  on the phone.
[04:25.880 --> 04:26.980]  Crack that dial tone.
[04:29.080 --> 04:32.760]  Bernie S., this is Radio Station WBAI calling live on the radio.
[04:33.040 --> 04:33.560]  On the air.
[04:33.980 --> 04:35.940]  Just so that we make sure that you're aware of that.
[04:36.960 --> 04:37.360]  Really?
[04:37.620 --> 04:37.800]  Yeah.
[04:38.140 --> 04:39.360]  I bet you're surprised, aren't you?
[04:39.580 --> 04:40.120]  You're very.
[04:40.380 --> 04:41.660]  Well, welcome to Off the Hook.
[04:41.760 --> 04:45.000]  Now, we're about to talk about what's going on down in Philadelphia.
[04:45.960 --> 04:51.220]  But first, before we do that, there's a very interesting development that supposedly began today.
[04:51.380 --> 04:55.440]  Do you know today is the day of national recognition for Verizon?
[04:56.120 --> 04:56.580]  That's right.
[04:56.620 --> 05:01.900]  It's the day that they're supposed to start calling themselves Verizon and start convincing us to do the same.
[05:02.420 --> 05:02.860]  Wait a minute.
[05:03.040 --> 05:04.880]  I think they've been doing this for a while, haven't they?
[05:04.920 --> 05:06.000]  That's Verizon Wireless.
[05:06.460 --> 05:06.860]  Ah!
[05:07.120 --> 05:07.880]  Bell Atlantic.
[05:08.120 --> 05:12.280]  Bell Atlantic is the company that we've come to know and love from D.C.
[05:12.480 --> 05:13.260]  to Maine.
[05:14.240 --> 05:16.940]  And now we're going to be told not to say that anymore.
[05:18.000 --> 05:19.200]  I was in track.
[05:19.420 --> 05:19.560]  Yeah.
[05:19.860 --> 05:20.340]  I was...
[05:20.340 --> 05:21.200]  It was...
[05:21.200 --> 05:25.180]  Wasn't it like Bell, Pennsylvania or up your way, New York Telephone?
[05:25.320 --> 05:26.940]  Yeah, you had Bell, Pennsylvania, BPA.
[05:27.420 --> 05:28.180]  We had New York Telephone.
[05:28.680 --> 05:32.760]  And then wasn't it Bell Atlantic down here and it was 9X up there?
[05:32.900 --> 05:33.500]  Yeah, yeah.
[05:33.600 --> 05:36.840]  And then it was Bell Atlantic up there and Bell Atlantic down here.
[05:37.400 --> 05:40.080]  And now it's Verizon here and there?
[05:40.260 --> 05:40.760]  That's right.
[05:40.900 --> 05:41.280]  That's right.
[05:42.040 --> 05:44.260]  You sure do.
[05:44.580 --> 05:46.020]  And you have to wonder why they keep changing their names.
[05:46.160 --> 05:49.380]  But supposedly today is the day that they're going to start answering the phones.
[05:49.640 --> 05:49.860]  Verizon.
[05:50.120 --> 05:52.140]  Or James Earl Jones is going to actually start saying it.
[05:52.200 --> 05:53.660]  So what we're going to do... I'm sick of hearing him.
[05:53.780 --> 05:55.520]  It really bothers me.
[05:55.600 --> 06:04.140]  Every time I call directory assistants to hear Darth Vader saying, thank you for calling, well, I guess it was Belle, Pennsylvania, now Belle Atlantic.
[06:04.380 --> 06:06.440]  Was Darth Vader answering the phone for Belle Atlantic?
[06:06.460 --> 06:06.960]  I don't recall.
[06:06.960 --> 06:08.040]  Well, he does now.
[06:08.260 --> 06:09.000]  I don't know if he was before.
[06:09.120 --> 06:09.840]  You mean from 9X?
[06:10.320 --> 06:13.480]  Back when it was Belle, Pennsylvania, was Darth Vader answering the phone for them.
[06:13.600 --> 06:14.700]  Oh, well, you had him from the beginning, then.
[06:14.760 --> 06:15.780]  We didn't have him from 9X.
[06:16.000 --> 06:16.260]  Yeah.
[06:16.260 --> 06:17.100]  I'm pretty sure of that.
[06:17.540 --> 06:20.100]  All right, let's see what we get if we dial an information operator.
[06:20.660 --> 06:21.580]  Let's get a dial tone.
[06:22.860 --> 06:24.920]  And, you know, I think we can't dial information.
[06:25.000 --> 06:25.600]  I'll try it anyway.
[06:26.140 --> 06:26.380]  Ah.
[06:28.880 --> 06:29.900]  555-1212 might work.
[06:29.980 --> 06:31.100]  I know 411 doesn't.
[06:36.120 --> 06:36.940]  Oh, something's happening.
[06:39.720 --> 06:40.320]  What city?
[06:40.900 --> 06:41.940]  What company is this?
[06:42.160 --> 06:44.080]  This is AT&T Directory Assistant.
[06:44.220 --> 06:44.800]  AT&T.
[06:44.920 --> 06:46.360]  Oh, I wanted to get Belle Atlantic.
[06:46.540 --> 06:47.200]  I don't know how I got you.
[06:48.860 --> 06:49.220]  Okay.
[06:49.220 --> 06:50.160]  Well, I'll try again.
[06:50.280 --> 06:50.680]  Thank you anyway.
[06:51.880 --> 06:52.480]  Well, that's annoying.
[06:52.580 --> 06:58.800]  You know, I think our phone system is set up so that it bypasses Belle Atlantic, and we can't get them even if we want them now.
[06:59.120 --> 07:00.260]  Can you dial zero?
[07:00.540 --> 07:07.920]  I'll try zero, but I have a feeling if I ask them any question, they're going to transfer me to zero-zero information with AT&T and charge at $1.50 or whatever.
[07:08.140 --> 07:09.300]  But let's try it anyway.
[07:11.480 --> 07:13.080]  Darling Zero on the air.
[07:21.510 --> 07:21.730]  Hmm.
[07:22.190 --> 07:23.490]  The suspense is killing me.
[07:23.970 --> 07:24.730]  AT&T.
[07:25.630 --> 07:26.110]  Well...
[07:26.110 --> 07:27.450]  That tells you that.
[07:27.750 --> 07:28.650]  You don't want that.
[07:28.750 --> 07:33.310]  I don't think there's any way to get Belle Atlantic with a carrier access code.
[07:34.330 --> 07:41.190]  Actually, there was 10698, which I believe translates now to 1010698, back in the old days.
[07:41.370 --> 07:42.710]  It was 10NYT.
[07:44.130 --> 07:45.450]  And that allowed you...
[07:45.450 --> 07:47.770]  Then there was 10BPA.
[07:48.170 --> 07:48.410]  Okay.
[07:48.530 --> 07:49.250]  Let's try those two.
[07:49.470 --> 07:51.050]  I don't think BPA would work up here, though.
[07:51.610 --> 07:51.870]  Ah.
[07:54.270 --> 07:54.690]  10106980.
[07:55.190 --> 07:56.250]  Let's see if that goes anywhere.
[07:59.860 --> 08:03.860]  You know, one day this form of phone exploration on the air might be illegal, so...
[08:03.860 --> 08:05.300]  Enjoy it while you can.
[08:06.200 --> 08:07.580]  This is too close to hacking.
[08:07.800 --> 08:08.240]  Yeah, it is.
[08:10.160 --> 08:11.060]  Nothing's happening yet.
[08:14.580 --> 08:15.380]  Nothing at all.
[08:17.020 --> 08:20.120]  I think it might be our phone system not understanding what I dialed.
[08:21.100 --> 08:24.800]  Which means we can't dial carrier access codes at all, which really is kind of annoying.
[08:25.440 --> 08:26.200]  Oh, well.
[08:26.580 --> 08:27.840]  Well, I guess...
[08:27.840 --> 08:38.940]  If, Emmanuel, you can take a number from me verbally offline while you play music or something, then I can give you a number that you can call to get Bell Atlantic directly.
[08:39.160 --> 08:43.480]  But I couldn't give that number over the air to reveal a secret of information I have.
[08:43.780 --> 08:44.080]  Okay.
[08:45.600 --> 08:46.420]  Let's see.
[08:46.840 --> 08:47.620]  If it's that important.
[08:47.620 --> 08:56.360]  Can you three-way to another line while you're on the air here without actually having to hang up?
[08:56.740 --> 09:01.260]  Unfortunately, Sprint PCS only allows me to establish, which I'm on right now.
[09:01.440 --> 09:03.320]  We're talking about Sprint PCS, I guess, unfortunately.
[09:03.660 --> 09:09.100]  But I can only establish a three-way call through Sprint PCS if I've initiated both calls.
[09:09.280 --> 09:09.760]  Oh, really?
[09:09.880 --> 09:13.040]  If you initiated that call, I cannot bring a third party...
[09:13.040 --> 09:14.500]  Well, what happens if you hit talk right now?
[09:15.120 --> 09:16.800]  I don't think that works.
[09:16.800 --> 09:21.840]  I think you can hit talk right now and call one of my special lines and try that.
[09:22.660 --> 09:24.420]  Call one of your special lines?
[09:24.520 --> 09:24.740]  Yes.
[09:25.120 --> 09:27.720]  Like your Sprint PCS number?
[09:27.820 --> 09:28.640]  Well, don't give it out.
[09:28.920 --> 09:29.780]  Well, I wouldn't.
[09:30.020 --> 09:32.120]  Everybody knows the numbers, so now everyone's going to call it.
[09:32.160 --> 09:33.920]  No, I'm not going to say what your number is.
[09:33.920 --> 09:34.400]  It doesn't matter.
[09:34.400 --> 09:40.760]  It's about to start ringing now because he said Sprint PCS number, and so many people have it that it's going to start ringing and you're going to get through.
[09:41.520 --> 09:42.680]  How about the other one?
[09:42.780 --> 09:43.600]  Call the other one, then.
[09:44.140 --> 09:44.500]  Okay.
[09:44.700 --> 09:44.900]  I'll do it now.
[09:44.900 --> 09:45.640]  Can you hold on a moment?
[09:45.760 --> 09:45.920]  Yeah.
[09:52.570 --> 09:53.810]  Delta, you're beeping a phone.
[09:54.770 --> 09:56.330]  Do you want us to maybe call that number?
[09:56.710 --> 09:57.350]  We need to.
[09:57.850 --> 09:58.690]  You know what we could do?
[09:58.790 --> 09:59.890]  We could call Bernie S.
[10:00.250 --> 10:02.610]  on call waiting and get the number that way.
[10:02.710 --> 10:03.530]  You could get the number that way.
[10:03.910 --> 10:04.810]  That's not going to work.
[10:04.930 --> 10:05.210]  Didn't work.
[10:05.310 --> 10:09.450]  Okay, what we're going to do instead is we're going to call you on call waiting.
[10:10.090 --> 10:10.430]  Okay.
[10:10.430 --> 10:12.970]  And someone else in the studio is going to do this.
[10:13.330 --> 10:14.050]  That'll work.
[10:14.170 --> 10:17.890]  Treat that person as you would me and give them the number.
[10:18.170 --> 10:22.250]  Now, I'm passing the number along to him using one of my phones.
[10:22.690 --> 10:23.790]  He's about to...
[10:25.490 --> 10:28.950]  Touchtones are so loud on his phone that they're blasting across the studio.
[10:29.370 --> 10:31.630]  But I turned down his microphone, so it won't be a problem.
[10:32.710 --> 10:33.110]  All right.
[10:33.630 --> 10:36.090]  I still hear them, even with your microphone off.
[10:36.550 --> 10:36.750]  All right.
[10:36.810 --> 10:40.210]  So your call waiting should start going off in a second.
[10:41.050 --> 10:44.130]  He'll get the number, and then we'll call the special number.
[10:44.130 --> 10:46.490]  And I don't even know what we're doing anymore.
[10:46.690 --> 10:47.310]  We're trying to find...
[10:47.310 --> 10:47.870]  Okay, I'm getting a call.
[10:47.910 --> 10:48.550]  All right, getting a call.
[10:48.590 --> 10:48.870]  Here we go.
[10:49.030 --> 10:49.350]  All right.
[10:50.290 --> 10:52.670]  Now, of course, this leaves me with nothing to say.
[10:54.050 --> 10:55.130]  Actually, I have...
[10:56.450 --> 10:57.750]  And don't repeat the number out loud.
[10:59.950 --> 11:01.170]  I have things I brought in.
[11:04.070 --> 11:07.410]  We can talk about the things happening with Napster, of course.
[11:07.550 --> 11:10.550]  Napster being a protocol for sharing files between users.
[11:11.410 --> 11:16.390]  Napster last week was issued a temporary injunction saying that they had to shut down.
[11:16.670 --> 11:20.010]  And then, of course, at the last minute, they got a reprieve, and they were able to stay up.
[11:20.230 --> 11:32.350]  What I find amazing about this whole Napster thing that's been going on from day one is that all the supposed copyrighted materials are on other sites.
[11:32.350 --> 11:34.090]  They're not on Napster's site in the first place.
[11:34.370 --> 11:36.310]  Napster simply points you to the sites.
[11:37.490 --> 11:37.930]  Okay.
[11:37.930 --> 11:40.070]  So, therefore, what's...
[11:40.070 --> 11:41.150]  Did you get the number?
[11:41.570 --> 11:42.030]  All right.
[11:42.070 --> 11:42.890]  I'm in the middle of a rant here.
[11:42.990 --> 11:50.790]  But what's the point of shutting down Napster when all Napster is doing is saying, you can find this material on this person's computer?
[11:51.090 --> 11:58.710]  I mean, if you look at it in a different way, Napster is probably providing the biggest service to people that want to shut other folks down because they're telling them where they are.
[12:00.510 --> 12:16.290]  So, the other issue here is that if you shut down Napster, you're not shutting down what you consider to be the problem because it's very easy to do this and be completely anonymous, completely decentralized.
[12:16.870 --> 12:18.230]  It will not go away.
[12:18.310 --> 12:20.770]  And that's the message that the record industry needs to understand.
[12:20.770 --> 12:22.090]  This kind of thing will not go away.
[12:22.090 --> 12:33.690]  So, you have to figure out a way to work with it, just like you figured out a way to work with cassettes and videotapes and all those other things that were assumed to be menaces and really, really evil.
[12:35.910 --> 12:38.050]  How is it that it's so hard to get a phone number here?
[12:39.230 --> 12:40.570]  Thank God I had something prepared.
[12:40.830 --> 12:42.510]  There would be a lot of silence in the air right now.
[12:43.710 --> 12:53.950]  British pop star Sting has lost a case at an international panel to evict the holder of the internet address Sting.com, becoming the first celebrity to suffer such a defeat.
[12:54.290 --> 12:56.470]  UN arbitrators said Thursday.
[12:56.770 --> 13:09.190]  The British singer filed the case in June at the Geneva-based World Intellectual Property Organization against American Michael Irvan of Marietta, Georgia, who had been the first to register the address as an internet domain.
[13:09.190 --> 13:23.410]  But WIPO, which runs an arbitration system that evicts cybersquatters or net users who register famous names in the hope of making a quick profit, ruled against the star, saying he was unable to prove the name had been registered in bad faith.
[13:25.470 --> 13:29.630]  I find that really interesting, that someone can actually say that Sting.com belongs...
[13:29.630 --> 13:32.030]  I mean, is the site even about Sting in the first place?
[13:32.030 --> 13:33.490]  Maybe it's about bees, you know?
[13:33.530 --> 13:35.230]  You don't know what it's really all about.
[13:35.350 --> 13:35.890]  Did you get the number?
[13:36.070 --> 13:36.730]  Yes, I got the number.
[13:36.770 --> 13:37.070]  Okay.
[13:37.070 --> 13:45.190]  I heard it somewhere, Emmanuel, that the term Sting has some special significance in the British version of the English language.
[13:45.350 --> 13:45.830]  Does it?
[13:46.070 --> 13:48.530]  It has... and I don't know what that meaning is, but it...
[13:48.530 --> 13:50.590]  The British version of the English language?
[13:50.750 --> 13:55.070]  Well, in British English, we have sort of different dialects.
[13:56.230 --> 13:58.510]  Well, I think we're the dialect, they're the language.
[13:58.850 --> 13:59.190]  Okay, exactly.
[13:59.190 --> 13:59.770]  I understand it, yeah.
[13:59.830 --> 14:07.290]  But in traditional British English, the term Sting has a common meaning that other than like bee sting...
[14:07.290 --> 14:10.130]  I don't know what it means, but it's a term that everybody there knows.
[14:11.010 --> 14:14.670]  And it has nothing to do with this guy who advertises jaguars on TV.
[14:15.190 --> 14:21.630]  Okay, well, I just find it very odd that someone will actually try to say that Sting belongs...
[14:21.630 --> 14:22.730]  I don't find it odd, actually.
[14:22.810 --> 14:23.850]  That kind of thing happens all the time.
[14:23.950 --> 14:25.690]  But fortunately, he lost the case.
[14:25.690 --> 14:32.970]  It is rather odd, though, that the UN is the arbitrator here and kind of scary in some ways.
[14:33.410 --> 14:35.230]  There are Republicans outside my window.
[14:35.670 --> 14:37.610]  Yeah, well, there's Republicans all over your city.
[14:37.750 --> 14:38.430]  I got news for you.
[14:38.990 --> 14:39.930]  They're just crawling with him.
[14:40.110 --> 14:44.550]  Well, I just came from there, and I was in the middle of a demonstration.
[14:44.590 --> 14:50.410]  I got into the middle of a big heated demonstration where they were on the corner of what is Broad and Spruce, I think.
[14:50.790 --> 14:51.850]  Is that where I was calling you from?
[14:52.010 --> 14:54.430]  And basically, it was amazing.
[14:54.490 --> 14:55.010]  I thought it was great.
[14:55.070 --> 14:59.970]  They sat down in the middle of the street and blocked traffic, and it was a very spirited demonstration.
[15:01.070 --> 15:03.170]  You know, I don't even know what the demonstration was about.
[15:03.710 --> 15:05.890]  I neglected to actually listen to what they were chanting.
[15:05.950 --> 15:08.970]  I mean, they were chanting, you know, all kinds of things, you know, who streets are streets.
[15:09.110 --> 15:12.990]  It might have been against the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal.
[15:12.990 --> 15:16.810]  I did not hear Mumia's name mentioned once, so I didn't think it was...
[15:16.810 --> 15:21.890]  Now, that's what another reporter who was on the scene told me, but there may have been more than one issue here protesting.
[15:22.210 --> 15:25.550]  Yeah, but it wasn't an unpleasant event.
[15:25.790 --> 15:29.350]  Basically, everybody was kind of, you know, sitting down and blocking traffic.
[15:29.810 --> 15:35.250]  Other people were kicking a soccer ball around, which is kind of a fun thing to do in the middle of a big street when there's no cars coming.
[15:35.350 --> 15:40.130]  And for a while, the cops were just there kind of pushing people with their bicycle tires, if you can believe that.
[15:41.250 --> 15:41.610]  And...
[15:41.610 --> 15:43.110]  I did that to a Secret Service agent.
[15:43.810 --> 15:45.730]  I thought that was Sunday, actually.
[15:45.850 --> 15:47.050]  You can tell us that story in a second.
[15:47.430 --> 15:52.970]  Basically, this went on for a good 30, 40 minutes, at least, before any more cops actually showed up.
[15:52.970 --> 15:59.410]  I understand what happened was there were so many actions taking place simultaneously throughout the city that they were really stretched to the limit.
[15:59.510 --> 16:05.270]  But eventually, a bunch of buses came from the sheriff's department or office or whatever, and they started hauling people away.
[16:05.390 --> 16:08.950]  But it was quite an interesting event, I thought.
[16:09.490 --> 16:12.610]  Not at all unpleasant, not at all hostile.
[16:12.790 --> 16:15.090]  I felt very, very comfortable in the crowd.
[16:15.290 --> 16:17.510]  At one point, I was behind the police barricades.
[16:17.650 --> 16:22.290]  Somehow, I got on the wrong side of there, and I had to kind of slip my way through the other direction to get back into the crowd.
[16:23.010 --> 16:31.050]  Now, I was listening to this, as you were up there, Emmanuel, on police radio frequencies, which are not quite yet illegal to listen to.
[16:32.430 --> 16:34.750]  And I heard quite a few people getting arrested.
[16:35.510 --> 16:35.770]  Yeah.
[16:35.950 --> 16:38.750]  Well, they did do that, and they were doing that in other parts of the city as well.
[16:39.450 --> 16:43.170]  And I imagine that will be going on throughout the night, throughout the week.
[16:44.450 --> 16:51.410]  Now, interesting thing, both you and I managed to get a hold of some documents.
[16:52.130 --> 16:54.970]  Maybe, you know, they really shouldn't have fallen into our hands, but they did.
[16:56.290 --> 16:57.550]  And despite the warning...
[16:57.550 --> 16:59.450]  They just sort of fell out of the sky on top of it.
[16:59.490 --> 16:59.630]  Yeah.
[17:01.670 --> 17:03.690]  Basically, they're not doing that good a job at security.
[17:03.850 --> 17:04.610]  Let's put it that way.
[17:05.950 --> 17:07.590]  On the back of these things, there's a warning.
[17:07.750 --> 17:09.650]  And I think I should, in all fairness, read the warning.
[17:09.650 --> 17:14.090]  All personnel are reminded that information contained in this document is for...
[17:14.090 --> 17:15.190]  And I'm going to scream...
[17:15.190 --> 17:16.430]  Official use only.
[17:16.670 --> 17:17.510]  It's all caps.
[17:18.210 --> 17:20.450]  And is protected by the Privacy Act.
[17:20.510 --> 17:25.910]  It is to be used only to contact government personnel in response to an agency exercise or emergency situation.
[17:26.250 --> 17:29.810]  Unauthorized use of this information may constitute an invasion of privacy.
[17:31.790 --> 17:32.390]  Yes.
[17:32.650 --> 17:34.190]  Isn't that something they're telling us about?
[17:34.230 --> 17:35.350]  An invasion of privacy.
[17:35.350 --> 17:41.210]  Now, the people who put this manual out always obviously demonstrate the utmost concern for personal privacy.
[17:41.290 --> 17:41.670]  That's right.
[17:42.010 --> 17:42.350]  That's right.
[17:42.470 --> 17:43.930]  Or maybe themselves, but whatever.
[17:44.210 --> 17:46.490]  Well, this book is basically a...
[17:46.490 --> 17:52.570]  Well, it's called the Operation Supplement to the Federal Response Plan, Year 2000 Republican National Convention.
[17:52.850 --> 17:57.090]  This is a publication by FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Act, is it?
[17:57.450 --> 17:57.870]  Agency.
[17:58.130 --> 17:58.830]  Agency, I'm sorry.
[17:59.350 --> 18:03.690]  And Region 3 is, of course, the region that you are in right now.
[18:04.010 --> 18:04.370]  Yes.
[18:04.370 --> 18:06.650]  I'll read you a little bit of the introduction.
[18:06.990 --> 18:13.690]  The Year 2000 Republican National Convention, RNC, and everything, everything they say has little acronyms that go along with it.
[18:14.310 --> 18:28.430]  Scheduled officially for July 31st through August 3rd, 2000, will be held in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, at the First Union Center, with ancillary activities at the Pennsylvania Convention Center, and numerous hotels located in the metropolitan area.
[18:29.330 --> 18:38.210]  During this event, the city and county of Philadelphia will host a large transient population, foreign visitors, a concentration of dignitaries, worldwide media coverage, and increased population density.
[18:38.210 --> 18:49.170]  With the concentration of large numbers of visitors and spectators, there is an increased risk of casualties from natural or accidental disasters, including broad-scale public health and safety emergencies.
[18:49.170 --> 18:56.350]  Based on this perceived risk, the federal government has developed concept plans for an effective and timely federal response to any contingency.
[18:56.810 --> 19:06.430]  There is a greater probability that an act occurring during the RNC could result in high-risk situations and possibly necessitate a tactical response by the local, state, and federal governments.
[19:07.010 --> 19:12.570]  Preparedness for nuclear, biological, chemical, in parentheses, NBC, and civil...
[19:12.570 --> 19:12.990]  Now, wait a second.
[19:13.070 --> 19:16.550]  Didn't you get in trouble, or somebody get in trouble, for using those same letters somewhere?
[19:16.730 --> 19:19.670]  Yeah, well, apparently it means something else, not just the NBC network.
[19:19.970 --> 19:21.430]  Chemical warfare.
[19:21.790 --> 19:27.010]  Yeah, and also civil disturbance events, as well as potential weather-related disaster events, must be considered.
[19:27.330 --> 19:27.910]  That's right.
[19:27.950 --> 19:28.490]  It could rain.
[19:28.710 --> 19:29.690]  It would not be a disaster.
[19:30.430 --> 19:34.190]  Schedule of RNC events is provided in Attachment 1, which I've already examined.
[19:34.190 --> 19:40.350]  And response to consequences of emergencies is under the primary jurisdiction of the City of Philadelphia and then the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.
[19:40.650 --> 19:46.610]  The Federal Emergency Management Agency's role during the RNC is the designated lead federal agency, LFA...
[19:46.610 --> 19:46.970]  LFA.
[19:47.190 --> 19:56.530]  LFA to coordinate federal assistance to state and local governments when state disaster response or consequence management capabilities are overwhelmed and must be supplemented by the federal government.
[19:56.730 --> 20:03.650]  It is FEMA's policy that it will use the structure of the FRP, Federal Response Plan, to respond to any emergency.
[20:04.190 --> 20:15.130]  In a terrorism emergency, FEMA's role is to support the Federal Bureau of Investigation, FBI, in crisis management response and to serve as the designated LFA in consequence management response.
[20:16.090 --> 20:20.810]  In an emergency that results or is likely to result in a presidential declaration under the Robert T.
[20:21.050 --> 20:27.610]  Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act, which is Public Law 93-288 as amended.
[20:28.230 --> 20:29.490]  You know, that makes me wonder...
[20:29.490 --> 20:30.590]  Look that one up on the internet, folks.
[20:30.790 --> 20:32.850]  Public Law 93-288.
[20:32.910 --> 20:34.470]  Does that mean there are private laws?
[20:34.690 --> 20:35.890]  Laws that we don't know about?
[20:36.310 --> 20:38.730]  You know, that kind of makes me wonder there, a little statement.
[20:40.250 --> 20:41.210]  All right, so we're going to think about...
[20:41.210 --> 20:52.870]  FEMA's role is to coordinate all federal assistance to supplement the state and local efforts and capabilities to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or lessen or avert the threat of a catastrophe.
[20:53.570 --> 20:55.850]  In a technological emergency...
[20:55.850 --> 20:57.010]  What do you think that is?
[20:57.130 --> 20:57.450]  What is that?
[20:57.990 --> 21:00.410]  Denial of service to rnc.gov or something?
[21:01.430 --> 21:04.310]  That's when the Atlantic doesn't get your T1 installed in time.
[21:04.450 --> 21:05.630]  Yeah, don't remind me.
[21:06.210 --> 21:10.470]  Or emergency covered under another independent authority that is not terrorism-oriented.
[21:11.010 --> 21:15.790]  FEMA's role is as a support agency to the lead or cognizant federal agency.
[21:15.790 --> 21:21.070]  However, assistance provided under the Stafford Act is always the responsibility of FEMA to administer.
[21:21.230 --> 21:22.810]  It goes on like this for quite some time.
[21:23.010 --> 21:24.230]  This is the bottom of page 2.
[21:24.350 --> 21:24.750]  That's interesting.
[21:24.910 --> 21:25.690]  Yeah, the bottom of page 2.
[21:26.110 --> 21:26.570]  Authorities.
[21:26.850 --> 21:32.010]  Although this operational supplement is terrorism-oriented, other types of emergencies could occur.
[21:32.430 --> 21:36.390]  Response to such emergencies will be under all or part of the following authorities.
[21:36.570 --> 21:39.270]  Number 1, the Stafford Act, FRP, as we've already mentioned.
[21:39.570 --> 21:43.150]  Number 2, Federal Radiological Emergency Response Plan.
[21:43.150 --> 21:45.250]  That's F-R-E-R-P.
[21:45.730 --> 21:46.230]  F-R-E-R-P.
[21:46.930 --> 21:48.550]  That's nuclear stuff, folks.
[21:48.790 --> 21:48.950]  Yeah.
[21:49.290 --> 21:55.770]  National Oil and Hazardous Substances Pollution Contingency Plan, which they, for some reason, initial just NCP.
[21:56.810 --> 21:58.430]  And drum roll, please.
[21:58.690 --> 21:58.950]  Yeah.
[22:00.310 --> 22:03.310]  Operation Garden Plot Plan for Civil Disturbance.
[22:04.330 --> 22:06.070]  Operation Garden Plot.
[22:06.190 --> 22:07.490]  What the hell is that?
[22:07.910 --> 22:08.570]  Any idea?
[22:08.990 --> 22:10.610]  That is the question of the evening, isn't it?
[22:10.710 --> 22:11.830]  Operation Garden Plot.
[22:11.830 --> 22:13.790]  I could give a good theory there.
[22:13.910 --> 22:14.410]  Okay, go ahead.
[22:14.750 --> 22:17.070]  Well, garden, plot, planting, growing.
[22:17.310 --> 22:20.850]  You put people inside of these civil disturbances and wait for them to grow.
[22:20.850 --> 22:27.930]  So in case of an emergency, you can say, you know, Mr. Carrot, Mr. Potato, please activate your contingency plan now.
[22:28.050 --> 22:33.730]  And Mr. Carrot, Mr. Potato could be well ingrained into the, you know, peaceful demonstration bit.
[22:33.730 --> 22:38.170]  And all of a sudden, they would just pop up and do something or make some act or something along those lines.
[22:38.470 --> 22:39.450]  Well, that's an interesting theory.
[22:39.490 --> 22:40.010]  What do you think, Bernie?
[22:40.990 --> 22:42.130]  I don't think that's part of it.
[22:42.190 --> 22:44.310]  I actually have not read Operation Garden Plot.
[22:44.450 --> 22:45.810]  I would like to get my hands on it.
[22:45.810 --> 22:47.130]  I'm sure I will sometime soon.
[22:47.130 --> 23:11.910]  But from what I've researched, from tidbits on other publicly available military documents on the Internet, Operation Garden Plot is a plan whereby the United States military can get involved in swelling civil unrest under the direction of the Attorney General.
[23:13.690 --> 23:23.450]  Now, unfortunately, this particular manual that landed on our heads while you were down here in Philadelphia, it does not go into any details about Operation Garden Plot.
[23:23.550 --> 23:30.130]  However, that is available on the Internet in bits and pieces.
[23:30.370 --> 23:43.530]  And you will find that basically this is what comes down to a martial law type of thing, where the military actually is involved in local law enforcement, which you would all think, well, that can't happen in this country.
[23:43.730 --> 23:46.750]  But there it is in black and white in a FEMA document.
[23:47.590 --> 24:01.950]  One of the authorities under which things can take place in an emergency situation here at the RNC, Operation Garden Plot can be rolled out.
[24:02.010 --> 24:04.270]  And that would involve military, U.S.
[24:04.370 --> 24:06.730]  military quelling civil disturbances.
[24:06.730 --> 24:09.790]  Well, that would be something we will definitely look for.
[24:09.950 --> 24:12.270]  And if someone has information on that, please send it to us.
[24:12.310 --> 24:15.590]  Of course, you know, sites on the Internet aren't really known for accuracy.
[24:15.790 --> 24:16.890]  So we would want something...
[24:16.890 --> 24:19.270]  No, this is off a military site, dot mil.
[24:19.430 --> 24:22.190]  We'd want something that's kind of official as far as that goes.
[24:22.330 --> 24:25.430]  Most of the stuff out there on Garden Plot is kind of crackpot stuff.
[24:25.550 --> 24:30.110]  But this was on a, actually, Marine Corps website.
[24:31.070 --> 24:37.170]  So, anyhow, do some research, folks, on Operation Garden Plot, and you'll see what they've got in store for us.
[24:37.230 --> 24:38.690]  This is really fascinating, reading through this.
[24:38.730 --> 24:42.850]  You hear all kinds of, you know, plans and plots that they have.
[24:43.870 --> 24:49.870]  FEMA headquarters will coordinate and arrange for alert of two urban search and rescue teams, that's U.S.
[24:49.910 --> 24:56.450]  and R teams, to arrive in the Philadelphia vicinity within 12 hours of a mass casualty event if activated and deployed.
[24:56.650 --> 25:04.790]  The city of Philadelphia will establish a staging area for incoming task forces that arrive through the MOBSEN, or other specified municipal airport.
[25:05.130 --> 25:06.990]  That's Mobilization Center.
[25:07.290 --> 25:07.690]  Mobilization Center.
[25:07.750 --> 25:08.650]  It's like newspeak, really.
[25:09.130 --> 25:10.090]  A U.S.
[25:10.130 --> 25:15.310]  and R incident support team will be rostered with a deployment target of six hours to the Philadelphia area.
[25:15.550 --> 25:27.230]  A potential event may be terrorist-oriented and include the use of an improvised device with conventional explosive capability or with NBC capability or other weapons of mass destruction, WMD.
[25:28.110 --> 25:28.910]  Did you know that?
[25:29.010 --> 25:30.510]  Weapons of mass destruction, WMD.
[25:31.070 --> 25:40.770]  Civil unrest, civil disorder, or crowd control, or a natural or technological disaster occurring anywhere within the metropolitan Philadelphia area may compound the situation and incident response.
[25:41.590 --> 25:46.230]  There's one part in there that I had to laugh out loud, and it's further back in the manual.
[25:46.250 --> 25:47.830]  I was laughing all the way back on the train.
[25:48.050 --> 25:48.930]  I really was.
[25:48.930 --> 25:52.510]  Did you come across the part where they say, well, this is a...
[25:52.510 --> 26:00.750]  They were describing what was going to happen on one of these off-site centers where they're going to land C-5A transport planes, bring in tanks and so forth.
[26:01.570 --> 26:06.030]  And it said that, well, when we do this, we contact...
[26:06.030 --> 26:09.650]  First, you get in touch with the FBI, and then there's other lead federal agency.
[26:10.030 --> 26:14.390]  And then, and then, we contact the United States Forest Service.
[26:15.450 --> 26:16.610]  Did you see that part in there?
[26:16.610 --> 26:17.430]  I didn't see that.
[26:17.550 --> 26:18.390]  The Forest Service?
[26:18.390 --> 26:20.450]  It's like, what does the Forest Service...
[26:20.450 --> 26:24.190]  But it looked like, and then, and then we turn to the power of powers, U.S.
[26:24.250 --> 26:24.850]  Forest Service.
[26:25.070 --> 26:26.670]  That's like, I have no idea what to...
[26:26.670 --> 26:28.910]  They mentioned God Almighty in there somewhere?
[26:29.630 --> 26:30.190]  Pretty much.
[26:30.790 --> 26:37.230]  Well, in any event, starting on July 25th and going through now, FEMA 3, which is your region, we're FEMA 2.
[26:37.350 --> 26:37.790]  Did you know that?
[26:37.990 --> 26:38.190]  Mm-hmm.
[26:38.190 --> 26:44.930]  Okay, well, FEMA 3 will be in an enhanced monitoring mode, and that means that they're especially jittery.
[26:47.010 --> 26:47.890]  Now, did you see this one?
[26:50.710 --> 27:02.070]  This section provides a narrative describing the event being reported, the severity of the event, a summary of the areas affected, the type of incident, like weather, bombing, threat, the date and time of the incident, and other pertinent information.
[27:02.070 --> 27:03.590]  Estimate of casualties.
[27:03.950 --> 27:08.070]  This section will include estimates of injured, missing, and or deceased resulting from the event.
[27:08.570 --> 27:11.370]  Estimates will be by state if more than one state is affected.
[27:12.270 --> 27:14.310]  Current situation and potential consequences.
[27:14.530 --> 27:20.930]  This section will include a statement on the current status of operations, including personnel, communications, equipment, vehicles, and any potential consequences.
[27:21.770 --> 27:24.650]  And actual or anticipated requests for federal assistance.
[27:24.650 --> 27:35.170]  This section includes any actual or anticipated needs or requests for federal assistance, teams, equipment, expertise, and should include requests for potential additional And it goes on.
[27:35.250 --> 27:36.670]  It goes on quite a bit after that.
[27:37.330 --> 27:38.310]  They have all the forms.
[27:38.550 --> 27:42.930]  There's several pages there of medical facilities and how many hospital bids exist at each of them.
[27:43.150 --> 27:43.290]  Yeah.
[27:44.070 --> 27:49.250]  So they were really planning for all hell to break loose at this event.
[27:49.290 --> 27:50.950]  And nothing of the sort has happened, really.
[27:51.210 --> 27:54.910]  Well, I guess, you know, planning is good, but it kind of scares me to see how much they've planned.
[27:55.150 --> 27:57.670]  You know, and just what it is that they're planning for.
[27:58.370 --> 28:01.450]  I mean, I was walking through the streets there, and yeah, there were demonstrators, there were police.
[28:01.450 --> 28:05.010]  But, you know, it wasn't at all unpleasant.
[28:05.170 --> 28:05.710]  It really wasn't.
[28:05.810 --> 28:07.350]  It was rather nice to see, actually.
[28:08.890 --> 28:20.230]  Now, the source that provided us with this document also told me that there's a high likelihood this document will be available on the web on Krypton.org very soon.
[28:20.410 --> 28:23.750]  Well, if you gave it to Krypton, yes, it's going to be available on Krypton.
[28:23.990 --> 28:26.930]  That's how Krypton works, and it's a good thing, too.
[28:27.930 --> 28:29.630]  I've got some radio frequencies here.
[28:30.470 --> 28:33.290]  Let's see if we can, for our listeners in Philadelphia.
[28:33.690 --> 28:36.170]  There were quite a few telephone numbers and email addresses in there.
[28:36.550 --> 28:36.730]  Yeah.
[28:36.730 --> 28:39.690]  You know, we just don't have time to go through it all, but if it does show up on Krypton, it would be cool.
[28:39.790 --> 28:41.810]  But if you check it out online, you might get the information.
[28:42.430 --> 28:46.530]  The Philadelphia Police, the central part of Philadelphia Police, I believe is the most pertinent for this.
[28:48.750 --> 28:49.470]  453.1500.
[28:49.830 --> 28:51.590]  You don't need the second O, but I just said it.
[28:51.930 --> 28:52.930]  You don't need any O's, really.
[28:53.190 --> 28:56.470]  Philadelphia Police Traffic and Ban 27 NARC, N-A-R-C.
[28:57.010 --> 28:57.950]  What does that stand for?
[28:59.410 --> 29:01.550]  I don't know what NARC is, but I don't know what they're calling it NARC.
[29:01.550 --> 29:01.710]  Yeah.
[29:02.390 --> 29:03.610]  453.25.
[29:04.390 --> 29:06.510]  Oh, there was a lot of action on that frequency today.
[29:06.790 --> 29:10.650]  Philadelphia Field Office of the FBI, 167.325.
[29:11.650 --> 29:15.150]  Philadelphia Field Office, again, of the FBI, 167.3.
[29:16.070 --> 29:19.470]  Then we have some Secret Service numbers, which I'm sure you'll be interested in, Bernie.
[29:21.310 --> 29:29.330]  164.4, 164.8, and 164.8875 and 8850, which is...
[29:29.330 --> 29:29.890]  Ooh, that's the important one.
[29:30.030 --> 29:31.150]  Yeah, that's a presidential protection.
[29:31.150 --> 29:33.750]  I don't think they really have much presidential...
[29:33.750 --> 29:38.410]  Well, they cover presidential nominees under that as well.
[29:38.610 --> 29:42.890]  So GW would be protected by folks using those frequencies.
[29:43.130 --> 29:43.750]  Anyone else they have?
[29:43.790 --> 29:47.850]  They have a list of all the demonstrations and what they think will be trouble spots.
[29:48.330 --> 29:54.010]  Yeah, I thought that was pretty interesting that the police intelligence had information in advance of all these...
[29:54.010 --> 30:02.970]  or quite a few of these activist demonstrations and where they were going to be held and what particular activist group was putting them on.
[30:03.030 --> 30:04.910]  And this was not publicized by the activist group.
[30:04.990 --> 30:05.270]  That's right.
[30:05.350 --> 30:09.870]  For instance, Philadelphia Direct Action Group slash Free Mamiya taking place at Unknown.
[30:10.330 --> 30:13.890]  And they don't really know anything about that one.
[30:14.610 --> 30:15.990]  Well, that happened today, I think.
[30:15.990 --> 30:17.530]  Yeah, this is one of my favorites.
[30:17.710 --> 30:18.370]  Anarchist group.
[30:18.490 --> 30:20.750]  Greet delegates arriving at 30th Street Station.
[30:21.430 --> 30:23.150]  That's going to take place...
[30:23.150 --> 30:28.370]  Well, it actually took place on the 29th and 30th, a 30th and Market Street's unknown time.
[30:29.490 --> 30:33.330]  But that's basically what they were planning on doing.
[30:33.330 --> 30:37.550]  Permitted demonstrations will display 30,000 pairs of shoes.
[30:37.830 --> 30:39.970]  That's Committee for a Silent March.
[30:40.290 --> 30:41.730]  Pro-Choice March.
[30:42.250 --> 30:43.550]  Generation Life.
[30:43.770 --> 30:44.490]  Boat Parade.
[30:46.150 --> 30:49.670]  Activists plan to take journalists on tour of depressed area of city.
[30:50.650 --> 30:53.290]  March and rally for sexual abstinence and fidelity.
[30:54.850 --> 30:55.770]  I missed that one.
[30:55.830 --> 30:56.330]  That's the...
[30:56.890 --> 30:57.470]  That's the...
[30:57.470 --> 30:58.170]  That's the Pure Love Alliance.
[30:59.290 --> 30:59.650]  Yeah.
[31:00.210 --> 31:00.570]  That's...
[31:01.410 --> 31:01.990]  That's a lot.
[31:02.090 --> 31:02.810]  There's a lot going on.
[31:02.930 --> 31:05.130]  I wish we had hours to go into all this.
[31:05.270 --> 31:10.510]  But rest assured, we'll turn this over to the BAI News Department and they can do what they see fit with it.
[31:12.270 --> 31:13.810]  So, anything else going on down there?
[31:13.810 --> 31:14.410]  Helicopters still...
[31:14.410 --> 31:17.190]  It really felt like it was a city under siege today.
[31:17.430 --> 31:18.870]  I mean, if you look up...
[31:18.870 --> 31:21.770]  Because I've never seen so many helicopters in my life.
[31:21.910 --> 31:22.070]  Yeah.
[31:22.190 --> 31:22.930]  There are a lot of helicopters.
[31:23.210 --> 31:24.110]  There were helicopters yesterday.
[31:24.310 --> 31:25.090]  Or yesterday, Monday.
[31:25.230 --> 31:25.910]  Yeah, it was Sunday.
[31:26.150 --> 31:31.510]  I saw two military helicopters circling Center City, Philadelphia.
[31:32.030 --> 31:35.250]  There were these, like, green ones with a sort of rounded front nose on them.
[31:35.470 --> 31:37.970]  Now, tell us what happened to you with the Secret Service.
[31:38.070 --> 31:38.950]  You had another run-in with them.
[31:39.090 --> 31:41.450]  I was riding my bike around yesterday just watching the sights.
[31:41.450 --> 31:49.010]  It was pretty amusing watching all the delegates walk around and seeing some of the activists walk around yesterday.
[31:49.310 --> 31:59.650]  There was quite a few process marches up Benjamin Franklin Parkway, which I rode my bike through and listening to things on my police scanner and just enjoying everything.
[31:59.950 --> 32:12.450]  And I rode by the Wyndham Franklin Plaza, which is one of the finer hotels here in Philadelphia, which I later found out was where John McCain and G.W.
[32:12.490 --> 32:14.010]  Bush will be staying.
[32:14.390 --> 32:21.190]  So I'm running by and I saw some what looked like delegates checking in or walking into the hotel.
[32:21.190 --> 32:22.790]  So I figured, oh, this looks interesting.
[32:22.790 --> 32:23.970]  I'll see what's going on there.
[32:23.970 --> 32:27.010]  So I rode my bike towards the entrance.
[32:27.010 --> 32:28.510]  There's sort of a drive-through.
[32:28.710 --> 32:37.090]  There's like an overhang where the hotel has sort of a ceiling and then columns.
[32:37.310 --> 32:38.530]  And behind the columns, you can...
[32:38.530 --> 32:42.210]  The taxi cabs will pick you up and drop you off at the front door to the bellboy.
[32:42.210 --> 32:43.690]  You have ten seconds to finish this.
[32:43.690 --> 32:54.810]  Anyway, so I rode my bike into there and this man from way off to the side leaked out in my bicycle right in front of it and jammed his knee against my front tire.
[32:56.410 --> 32:58.770]  And he said, sir, do you have a pass?
[32:59.130 --> 32:59.950]  I looked up.
[33:00.090 --> 33:00.810]  I didn't startle.
[33:01.590 --> 33:02.990]  Now I'm riding my bike around.
[33:03.170 --> 33:04.350]  He said, you'll have to leave then.
[33:04.530 --> 33:09.410]  And as I looked up, I saw a United States Secret Service pin on his suit.
[33:09.870 --> 33:14.090]  And then I felt bad that my front tire sort of got his pants dirty.
[33:14.370 --> 33:18.210]  But there was no sign or anything indicating that this was not open to the public.
[33:18.410 --> 33:21.810]  I mean, any other day of the week, you could just walk up to the lobby at this hotel.
[33:23.150 --> 33:26.710]  So that was kind of startling, had this man lunge at me and jammed his...
[33:26.710 --> 33:28.370]  You just attract them like flies.
[33:28.670 --> 33:29.130]  You do.
[33:29.450 --> 33:29.690]  You know?
[33:30.070 --> 33:31.650]  Literally running out of the bushes, right?
[33:31.990 --> 33:32.790]  This guy...
[33:32.790 --> 33:33.730]  No, he wasn't in the bushes.
[33:33.890 --> 33:35.570]  He was talking to somebody else off to the side.
[33:35.630 --> 33:37.410]  And I just decided to ride by and then...
[33:37.410 --> 33:39.330]  So he wasn't at his post.
[33:39.490 --> 33:40.710]  That's what the problem was.
[33:40.850 --> 33:41.670]  Well, he did his job.
[33:41.670 --> 33:42.990]  He did stop me from getting in there.
[33:43.070 --> 33:44.030]  So I gotta hand it to the guy.
[33:44.210 --> 33:48.410]  If his job was to stop you from getting to the front of the hotel, he did a very good job.
[33:48.450 --> 33:50.150]  And I commend him in doing that.
[33:50.270 --> 33:51.930]  And he took a tire on the foot for that.
[33:52.790 --> 33:54.570]  Actually, it's closer to his shin.
[33:54.770 --> 33:55.050]  Uh-huh.
[33:55.170 --> 33:56.230]  But I hope I didn't hurt him.
[33:56.310 --> 33:57.450]  It certainly wasn't my intent.
[33:57.650 --> 33:58.130]  I was just...
[33:58.130 --> 33:59.390]  You know, if they had a...
[33:59.390 --> 34:03.590]  If they had like a barricade or something there, then I would have known that, okay, you can't go through here.
[34:03.690 --> 34:05.170]  But it was just like wide open, so...
[34:05.170 --> 34:07.850]  Yet another run-in with the Secret Service and Bernie S.
[34:08.210 --> 34:14.450]  Alright, let's try this phone number, because we have a bunch of things we have to get to, and we want to take some calls this week, unlike last week.
[34:14.910 --> 34:17.990]  So let's get this other dial tone on the line.
[34:18.330 --> 34:18.730]  Alright.
[34:19.090 --> 34:23.250]  And now we're going to call a secret number, which we have been supplied with.
[34:25.190 --> 34:25.750]  And...
[34:26.230 --> 34:27.810]  Let's dial away there.
[34:28.150 --> 34:30.170]  Wait for our secret, uh...
[34:30.170 --> 34:31.170]  Authorization code.
[34:31.770 --> 34:32.730]  Oh, you heard tones.
[34:33.290 --> 34:33.530]  Yeah.
[34:34.530 --> 34:35.830]  And I don't hear any tones.
[34:37.370 --> 34:41.390]  Which means the BI phone system has once again failed to process the call properly.
[34:41.490 --> 34:41.930]  Let's do it again.
[34:42.770 --> 34:42.950]  Okay.
[34:43.890 --> 34:48.610]  Dial every number nice and slowly, so we don't confuse the system.
[34:51.490 --> 34:51.870]  Okay.
[34:52.230 --> 34:53.050]  That should work.
[34:55.630 --> 34:56.490]  Okay, here we go.
[34:57.230 --> 34:58.730]  Now we dial our secret code.
[35:02.470 --> 35:04.870]  And now we're going to dial a special secret code and we get the tone.
[35:05.230 --> 35:06.170]  Alright, there's the tone.
[35:07.290 --> 35:08.050]  We're dialing...
[35:08.550 --> 35:09.290]  Special code.
[35:10.230 --> 35:11.750]  Alright, and now there's another code we dial.
[35:15.140 --> 35:16.240]  And now we should get a dial tone.
[35:18.660 --> 35:19.260]  Alright, Bernie?
[35:19.820 --> 35:20.380]  Hope so.
[35:20.620 --> 35:20.760]  Okay.
[35:22.520 --> 35:23.720]  I don't hear a dial tone.
[35:24.080 --> 35:24.360]  Oh!
[35:25.500 --> 35:26.600]  Did you leave out a detail?
[35:27.680 --> 35:28.860]  Hey, it always works for me.
[35:29.020 --> 35:29.500]  Oh, boy.
[35:29.860 --> 35:30.860]  But I don't call to...
[35:30.860 --> 35:32.040]  This is just great.
[35:32.580 --> 35:34.320]  Well, I don't call to the BI phone system.
[35:34.320 --> 35:35.540]  I'm going to try this one more time.
[35:36.200 --> 35:37.260]  Because it's really, uh...
[35:38.400 --> 35:41.080]  It's really getting annoying here just to hear an operator say Verizon.
[35:42.160 --> 35:44.860]  Which is something that, uh, you know, everyone's going to hear in the future.
[35:44.860 --> 35:48.980]  So they won't be able to imagine why we wanted to hear it before anybody else did.
[35:52.680 --> 35:53.040]  Okay.
[35:53.200 --> 35:53.940]  Let's wait for...
[35:53.940 --> 35:57.600]  I'm not going to turn down the volume because people won't know what the code is anyway.
[35:57.940 --> 35:58.160]  Right.
[36:00.580 --> 36:01.660]  It doesn't seem to be hearing.
[36:01.800 --> 36:01.900]  What?
[36:01.980 --> 36:02.460]  You want to dial it?
[36:02.580 --> 36:03.000]  What's happening?
[36:03.060 --> 36:04.140]  It's not sending a touch tone.
[36:04.360 --> 36:04.660]  Yeah.
[36:04.840 --> 36:05.020]  Alright.
[36:05.080 --> 36:06.900]  Well, we're not going to do this anymore because we...
[36:06.900 --> 36:08.260]  We don't have any more time.
[36:08.260 --> 36:13.180]  Apparently, the BI info system, after you've established a connection with the other end, it doesn't let you send any more touch tone.
[36:13.180 --> 36:17.160]  Well, it does, but it just doesn't, in this particular case, where it's not loud enough, or I don't know.
[36:17.340 --> 36:17.880]  I don't know what.
[36:18.700 --> 36:22.320]  Deltra, you had a hell of an experience this past Friday.
[36:22.800 --> 36:24.020]  Was it Friday or was it Thursday?
[36:24.140 --> 36:24.380]  Thursday.
[36:24.960 --> 36:25.060]  Thursday.
[36:25.880 --> 36:28.800]  You were on your way to DEFCON, which I went to as well.
[36:29.000 --> 36:29.140]  I was.
[36:29.140 --> 36:29.920]  And, uh, in Vegas.
[36:30.560 --> 36:33.120]  And, uh, well, you had a little mishap along the way.
[36:33.200 --> 36:34.180]  Oh, a little fun and excitement.
[36:35.520 --> 36:38.740]  It was, uh, it was kind of funny because we were talking about it before the flight.
[36:38.920 --> 36:42.900]  I was at the ticket counter and the flight was delayed taking off, which was no fun in itself.
[36:43.080 --> 36:50.240]  But one of the ticket counter people I was talking to, I said, you know, I hope you have some darn good entertainment on here and not just the usual bad movie.
[36:50.760 --> 36:54.000]  And he laughed and said, well, you know, the captain will come out and belly dance for you.
[36:54.100 --> 36:55.340]  I hope that's entertainment enough.
[36:55.500 --> 36:56.800]  And we had a good laugh about that.
[36:57.240 --> 37:01.040]  But, um, so after waiting for the delayed flight, they announced it.
[37:01.040 --> 37:07.520]  And, uh, this is the odd part because like, I wasn't the only person who asked this about three other people other than myself asked this.
[37:07.720 --> 37:14.640]  We walked up to the counter because you walk, when you go to national, you walk through the front door, little sliding doors, national airlines, national airlines.
[37:14.780 --> 37:14.820]  Yeah.
[37:14.920 --> 37:15.020]  Okay.
[37:15.100 --> 37:16.100]  Where have I heard that before?
[37:16.340 --> 37:16.580]  I don't know.
[37:16.920 --> 37:17.280]  Anyway.
[37:17.720 --> 37:25.880]  Uh, so you walk through the little glass doors and, you know, unlike most other places, you see, there you are, there's this big space, but there's this little staircase you had to go up.
[37:26.440 --> 37:31.540]  And you try checked in, got my ticket, went up the staircase and was in this big waiting room.
[37:31.840 --> 37:33.480]  And that's when they said the flight's been delayed.
[37:33.640 --> 37:34.940]  We're all just waiting, waiting, waiting.
[37:35.540 --> 37:37.960]  And nobody had searched me knowing you'd x-rayed anything.
[37:38.260 --> 37:45.040]  And I, I walked to the counter and I said, you know, aren't you, don't you normally, you know, x-ray people and check their baggage and stuff when they're in the waiting room.
[37:45.100 --> 37:46.780]  And they go, Oh, that's not at this gate.
[37:46.880 --> 37:47.600]  It's not like that.
[37:47.680 --> 37:48.340]  Uh, but don't worry.
[37:48.400 --> 37:49.160]  We will check everything.
[37:49.520 --> 37:52.460]  And I sat there and I watched like two or three other people ask the same thing.
[37:52.460 --> 37:57.180]  And when I was talking to them, we're like, you know, don't you normally get checked before you go to the waiting room?
[37:58.180 --> 38:05.880]  So they announced the flight and right behind the gate, they, uh, right behind the desk, rather they open the doors that lead to the gate and you walk through this doorway and it's tiny.
[38:06.220 --> 38:08.420]  I'm talking like Manhattan apartment, tiny.
[38:09.140 --> 38:13.040]  And, uh, there's the x-ray machine and there's the metal detector and all that.
[38:13.160 --> 38:17.440]  And then there's the jetway, a little walkway you take that goes from the building proper into the airplane.
[38:18.060 --> 38:20.740]  And it was all in an area that couldn't have been more.
[38:20.920 --> 38:24.720]  I mean, my rough estimate may be a 10 feet, if that.
[38:24.940 --> 38:25.060]  Right.
[38:25.580 --> 38:29.300]  And, uh, you go through and you go x-ray, x-ray and you get searched and all that.
[38:29.420 --> 38:31.320]  But it's such a small distance.
[38:32.080 --> 38:37.400]  From the time you walk out of the metal detector to the time where you get on the jetway was maybe four feet, five feet tops.
[38:37.860 --> 38:39.100]  I mean, that's a rough estimation.
[38:39.280 --> 38:40.860]  It's like a half mile for the plane I took.
[38:41.120 --> 38:41.320]  Yeah.
[38:41.460 --> 38:42.080]  Well, hmm.
[38:42.840 --> 38:48.460]  So what happened there was, you know, you walked in the jetway and I got into my little seat and I was sitting down getting ready to take off and all that.
[38:48.740 --> 38:50.660]  And, uh, there were some delays again.
[38:50.820 --> 38:53.720]  And we were, you know, the usual pseudo-socialization you do with someone.
[38:53.720 --> 38:54.400]  Hi, how you doing?
[38:54.520 --> 38:55.480]  Get your luggage off my foot.
[38:55.680 --> 38:56.560]  You know, things like that.
[38:56.560 --> 38:56.700]  Right, right.
[38:57.000 --> 38:58.940]  And then I heard this little commotion behind me.
[38:59.060 --> 39:02.120]  And I'm like, you know, well, you know, someone tripped, someone fell, whatever.
[39:02.580 --> 39:05.240]  And then I hear this male voice going, you know, secure the hatch.
[39:05.680 --> 39:06.340]  Secure the hatch.
[39:06.480 --> 39:07.620]  Just secure the hatch.
[39:08.480 --> 39:15.620]  And this person, who amazingly looks just like the one I saw on TV, goes walking right by me, right by about two or three other people.
[39:15.620 --> 39:22.640]  And on the other side of me, there's a bunch of guys kind of goofing around, you know, doing the old slap each other on the back thing, you know, making small talk with the flight attendants.
[39:22.740 --> 39:24.520]  And they're sort of looking at each other kind of funny.
[39:24.600 --> 39:27.200]  And this guy walked by sort of like, you know, with his hands in front of him.
[39:27.940 --> 39:29.980]  And I'm like, that's not what I think it is, is it?
[39:30.100 --> 39:32.600]  And the guys on the other side look open and he said, that's a gun.
[39:33.760 --> 39:38.380]  And one of the guys who I guess someone had some military experience just said, you know, gun, gun, gun.
[39:38.960 --> 39:39.800]  And that was it.
[39:40.280 --> 39:40.960]  And we're off.
[39:41.940 --> 39:44.740]  And the guy sitting next to me just got up and ran.
[39:44.740 --> 39:47.040]  And the woman on the other side got up and ran.
[39:47.260 --> 39:50.720]  I got up and I decided that I didn't want to be on this airplane anymore, considering, you know.
[39:50.920 --> 39:54.860]  But all the time, this person, like, he went right up to the cockpit, shut the door, that was it.
[39:56.040 --> 40:01.480]  So I'm kind of weighing it back and forth in my mind, which, of course, is a crock, because you don't weigh anything in your mind other than saving your skin.
[40:01.600 --> 40:05.420]  But, you know, you think he's in the cockpit, he's not going to come back out, I'm getting off this plane.
[40:06.160 --> 40:11.920]  And this is where some people... I didn't see this happen, but there were people who said that one of the flight attendants tried to shut the door.
[40:12.280 --> 40:15.500]  And someone just put their hand in the way and said, there's no way you're shutting this door.
[40:16.360 --> 40:17.840]  They tried to lock people in?
[40:17.960 --> 40:19.120]  Yeah, they tried to shut the door.
[40:19.380 --> 40:20.460]  Why would they do that?
[40:20.500 --> 40:22.440]  Well, because the hijacker said, secure the hatch.
[40:22.440 --> 40:23.340]  He said, secure the hatch.
[40:23.440 --> 40:25.720]  And from my understanding, I didn't see this.
[40:25.800 --> 40:33.520]  This is all strictly what I've been told, but apparently when he walked on the plane, he put the gun into the flight attendant, like, stuck it in her stomach, and said, you know, shut the door.
[40:33.960 --> 40:37.980]  And nine times out of ten, when someone puts a gun in you and says to do something, generally speaking, you do it.
[40:38.040 --> 40:39.560]  So I really don't see any fault there.
[40:39.560 --> 40:42.320]  But he was gone, and the door became open.
[40:42.920 --> 40:46.100]  And there was, like, a woman with a baby carriage in front of me, and there were three other people.
[40:46.480 --> 40:48.460]  And we just all ran down the jetway.
[40:49.260 --> 40:51.800]  We got back into the door, into the ticketing area.
[40:52.960 --> 40:56.240]  There were the two people who worked for National were sitting there looking kind of funny.
[40:56.280 --> 40:57.700]  Like, why are all these people coming off the plane?
[40:58.300 --> 41:04.180]  And people were just sort of milling around, going, you know, laughing a little bit and saying, okay, you know, we're going to find out it was a mistake, someone made a joke or something.
[41:09.560 --> 41:16.680]  And the only thing they really saw was, when you came out the jetway, was there was the two security people, the one running the x-ray machine, one running the metal detector.
[41:16.860 --> 41:18.180]  I don't know where the third one went.
[41:18.480 --> 41:24.100]  And the man behind the x-ray machine was just sitting there, looking, like, shocked, like, shell-shocked.
[41:24.360 --> 41:28.060]  The woman was just pointing towards the exit and gibbering.
[41:28.060 --> 41:32.160]  And I say gibbering because people in New York, generally speaking, don't speak English very well.
[41:32.620 --> 41:34.760]  And this woman was a shining example of that.
[41:35.060 --> 41:39.720]  And just was saying, it sounded like an old Pink Floyd record being played backwards or something.
[41:40.280 --> 41:42.520]  And, you know, we really needed to be told, go this way.
[41:42.600 --> 41:45.300]  There was only one way to go, and the guy with the gun was behind us.
[41:45.620 --> 41:50.620]  So the second wave of people come pouring out, and that was my signal to get out of Dodge.
[41:50.620 --> 41:54.000]  So I ran down the corridor and around the first corner I could find.
[41:54.320 --> 41:57.580]  You know, first rule of thumb, you know, out of sight, they won't shoot at you.
[41:58.060 --> 41:59.660]  And there were people going in every direction.
[42:00.940 --> 42:04.820]  That was about the time when the police apparently came up on the scene.
[42:04.880 --> 42:06.000]  I didn't see much of them.
[42:06.120 --> 42:08.920]  I just, you see the little helmets and the shotguns and all that.
[42:09.360 --> 42:12.360]  And that's when I decided it was time to make my egress.
[42:12.720 --> 42:15.880]  And directly across from where I was standing was a door that said, exit the street.
[42:16.020 --> 42:18.760]  And I'm like, okay, that's pretty much exactly what I want.
[42:19.180 --> 42:21.140]  So I go down that door, down to the street.
[42:21.240 --> 42:22.860]  There's, like, three people behind me that I saw.
[42:23.180 --> 42:27.300]  And I get outside, and I'm like, you know, I'm sort of like, wow, I just survived.
[42:27.300 --> 42:29.240]  You know, my first real live hijacking.
[42:29.700 --> 42:32.980]  And I kind of looked over to the left of me, and I saw there was the front door.
[42:34.060 --> 42:36.680]  And everyone was gathered there at the front door right on the street.
[42:37.440 --> 42:43.000]  And I tried to go in to some of the other airlines that were on the left and to the right to use their telephones, and they wouldn't let me.
[42:43.400 --> 42:47.600]  I actually had a woman tell me that there was no telephone there when it was sitting right in front of her.
[42:47.700 --> 42:48.920]  And I'm like, I touched it.
[42:48.960 --> 42:49.880]  I'm like, what's this?
[42:50.060 --> 42:50.860]  No telephone.
[42:52.320 --> 42:54.960]  And I thought to myself, okay, every other door is locked.
[42:55.080 --> 42:56.020]  All these security people are here.
[42:56.100 --> 43:01.200]  If this guy wants to make a run to the outside world, he has to go right out this door where all these people are standing.
[43:01.540 --> 43:02.760]  I'm not going to be one of those people.
[43:02.760 --> 43:07.740]  And I walked down to the next terminal, sat down at the bar, and had a drink.
[43:08.520 --> 43:09.640]  I would have had several.
[43:09.880 --> 43:11.640]  Oh, I had like five, I think.
[43:12.600 --> 43:20.440]  But it's a quote that's going to be up on the 303 quote page pretty soon, which says, Sir, my plane was just hijacked.
[43:20.540 --> 43:21.940]  Please give me four gin and tonics.
[43:23.820 --> 43:28.180]  The funny part was, after all this, you would think that there would be some kind of...
[43:28.180 --> 43:32.740]  You know, they'd get the people out of there, you know, pull a bus up there, and throw everyone on.
[43:32.840 --> 43:33.820]  But it didn't happen.
[43:34.040 --> 43:45.560]  And I spent two hours in another terminal walking around, talking to security guards, and I actually used a free email terminal to send a message to people at DEFCON saying, Hi, I've been hijacked.
[43:45.560 --> 43:46.420]  We'll be delayed.
[43:46.560 --> 43:47.380]  Have a nice day.
[43:47.900 --> 43:52.700]  Yeah, when I arrived in Vegas, you know, someone said, well, you were on the plane that was hijacked.
[43:52.760 --> 43:53.960]  I said, what plane that was hijacked?
[43:54.040 --> 43:54.860]  And they told me the airline.
[43:55.000 --> 43:57.240]  And you had told me earlier that day that you were taking national airlines.
[43:57.240 --> 43:58.420]  I'd never heard of them before.
[43:58.580 --> 44:00.080]  And now, of course, everyone has heard of them.
[44:01.220 --> 44:02.700]  But atrocious security, really.
[44:02.780 --> 44:04.840]  And I heard they have no plans to make it any better.
[44:04.960 --> 44:07.120]  Basically, anybody could just walk past them with a gun.
[44:07.780 --> 44:09.340]  The distance is so small.
[44:10.200 --> 44:14.600]  From what I've been told, you know, he just walked in there, brandished the gun, and said, you know, let me by.
[44:14.600 --> 44:17.220]  And they just went, you know, hey, hey, have a nice day, sir.
[44:17.580 --> 44:19.740]  I mean, I imagine they had the big red button under the table.
[44:20.120 --> 44:21.360]  But, I mean, anyone.
[44:21.820 --> 44:23.740]  You didn't have to be, you don't have to be an expert.
[44:23.760 --> 44:24.960]  You don't have to be a terrorist.
[44:25.080 --> 44:25.860]  You don't have to be a loony.
[44:26.400 --> 44:30.400]  Anyone who could, like, walk fast could just go right through there.
[44:30.440 --> 44:30.560]  Yeah.
[44:30.840 --> 44:32.600]  Before anyone could really stop them.
[44:32.820 --> 44:32.920]  Yeah.
[44:33.300 --> 44:36.080]  And that's the only gate I've ever seen like that.
[44:36.160 --> 44:38.900]  And a lot of people we talked to have said, you know, that's the only gate they've ever heard of.
[44:38.900 --> 44:41.620]  Yeah, now imagine if there were two people that had guns.
[44:41.880 --> 44:42.160]  Two people.
[44:42.160 --> 44:43.800]  They would have secured that plane very quickly.
[44:43.840 --> 44:44.300]  Very quickly.
[44:44.420 --> 44:44.860]  Very easily.
[44:44.960 --> 44:46.560]  And it would have been a disaster.
[44:46.660 --> 44:52.900]  Because, you know, with two people, it could have prevented the flight attendant from popping the hatch in the back and going down the slip and slide.
[44:53.100 --> 44:53.480]  Absolutely.
[44:53.480 --> 44:56.500]  And, you know, a hundred other bad things could have happened.
[44:56.700 --> 45:02.760]  And, you know, people have told me since then, they were like, you know, well, did you think of the consequences of getting off that plane?
[45:02.760 --> 45:04.620]  You could have caused some problems.
[45:04.780 --> 45:13.500]  And, you know, in a situation like that, you know, as much as you'd like to sit there and say, I was thinking of my fellow human being, I was thinking of my feet hitting the pavement as quickly as I could.
[45:13.640 --> 45:15.440]  I think most of us would feel the same way.
[45:15.560 --> 45:24.200]  And, you know, and when we arrived in Vegas, they, you know, ushered us off into this little VIP lounge where we got our little tinfoil-covered cup of orange juice and a banana.
[45:24.200 --> 45:30.980]  And, you know, and they had a chaplain there to sit there and go chom-chom, gabi-gabi, and, you know, make sure everything's all right.
[45:31.200 --> 45:36.560]  And then this one woman's like, we have mental health experts ready in case you need them.
[45:38.240 --> 45:43.320]  And it was like, it wasn't like the airline was not, you know, they were trying to help us out as much as they could.
[45:43.480 --> 45:49.480]  But there were really, really weird things like, you know, calling the airline and them saying, well, we'll refund this portion of your flight.
[45:50.340 --> 45:52.920]  And no one's contacted anyone.
[45:53.120 --> 45:57.320]  I mean, certainly with an event like this, you had people running around screaming, I'm going to sue, I'm going to sue.
[45:57.420 --> 45:57.800]  Right, right.
[45:57.880 --> 45:59.340]  But, you know, there's been no talk about that.
[45:59.440 --> 46:01.960]  And certainly there were reporters everywhere, we were besieged by reporters.
[46:02.260 --> 46:05.260]  Well, it's, I guess it was an adventure.
[46:05.260 --> 46:06.680]  It was definitely an adventure.
[46:07.080 --> 46:13.500]  And getting to DEFCON and having everyone come running up to me and going, wow, we're so happy you're alive, we're so happy you're alive.
[46:14.120 --> 46:15.960]  And all the free drinks I got out of it, too.
[46:16.140 --> 46:17.040]  That's another big plus.
[46:17.480 --> 46:21.240]  I wouldn't recommend going through a hijacking to get free drinks, but if you do go through one, you can expect.
[46:21.240 --> 46:22.000]  Make sure you get them, right.
[46:22.000 --> 46:23.900]  Make sure you get the free drinks, because it definitely makes it worthwhile.
[46:24.420 --> 46:25.440]  What did you think of DEFCON?
[46:27.000 --> 46:28.640]  DEFCON was kind of interesting this year.
[46:28.760 --> 46:31.680]  It was bigger than normal, and it was a little crazier than normal.
[46:33.440 --> 46:34.760]  It was DEFCON, you know.
[46:34.760 --> 46:36.180]  I didn't spend a lot of time...
[46:36.180 --> 46:37.160]  See, that's where I disagree.
[46:37.440 --> 46:38.200]  I don't think it was DEFCON.
[46:38.240 --> 46:41.380]  It wasn't the DEFCON that I've come to appreciate in the past.
[46:41.480 --> 46:43.880]  They had 7,000 people show up.
[46:43.980 --> 46:44.380]  I'm not kidding.
[46:44.620 --> 46:46.360]  7,000 people showed up.
[46:46.640 --> 46:50.980]  But the thing that really annoyed me the most was the way they treated the people.
[46:51.360 --> 46:54.720]  It was like being at a rock concert, you know.
[46:54.720 --> 47:04.360]  Basically, the people who arrived there, it wasn't like going to a hacker convention and being treated like a hacker, you know, and we're all in this together.
[47:04.520 --> 47:09.120]  It was more like, you know, we're the authority, you're the attendees, you're garbage, give us 50 bucks.
[47:09.400 --> 47:10.520]  That's what I got out of it.
[47:10.580 --> 47:13.600]  And the reason I say that, the reason I sound like this is because that's what happened to me.
[47:14.300 --> 47:15.500]  Yeah, I heard about this.
[47:15.500 --> 47:20.380]  And it was, you know, really, because every time I go there, it's always like some confusion at first.
[47:20.400 --> 47:21.340]  I expect it, you know.
[47:21.460 --> 47:27.900]  We have like, you know, a deal where we give them advertising in the magazine and, you know, we get in for free.
[47:28.020 --> 47:31.380]  And they always have trouble finding things, but eventually they do.
[47:31.480 --> 47:46.680]  Well, in this particular case, while someone was looking to find out, you know, just how many people were supposed to be let in, this one security guy, you know, they apparently got from the local Nazi party or whatever, decides to just come up and start physically shoving me for no reason.
[47:46.800 --> 47:51.540]  Nobody's just, you know, I was standing there waiting and this guy just comes up and says, get the F out of here, you know.
[47:51.700 --> 47:52.880]  And I'm like, what?
[47:53.520 --> 47:57.600]  I'm standing here waiting for someone to come back and give me the pass that I'm entitled to.
[47:57.720 --> 48:01.860]  And this person is literally, I mean, I was afraid this guy had a gun or something.
[48:01.980 --> 48:06.600]  He was acting like one of those out of control cops act before they go completely loony.
[48:07.420 --> 48:10.520]  And I'm like, you know, basically people came to my aid.
[48:10.580 --> 48:14.500]  I didn't, you know, tell him who I was or anything like that because I don't like to play games like that.
[48:14.500 --> 48:17.040]  But if it happened to me, it happened to other people as well.
[48:17.460 --> 48:19.400]  And I'm sure it happened to quite a few people.
[48:19.560 --> 48:20.840]  And it was just really annoying.
[48:20.980 --> 48:22.920]  Eventually, someone came up and said, well, he's just doing his job.
[48:23.020 --> 48:23.980]  That's not his job.
[48:24.180 --> 48:24.420]  I'm sorry.
[48:24.800 --> 48:28.240]  A person's job is not to intimidate, not to physically assault people.
[48:28.440 --> 48:30.580]  It's a hacker convention, for God's sake.
[48:30.760 --> 48:34.580]  It's not, you know, these people are not trying to break out of prison or something like that.
[48:34.740 --> 48:37.760]  They're your equals, at the very least.
[48:37.980 --> 48:40.760]  And I just thought it was really, you know, nasty.
[48:40.760 --> 48:44.100]  And I heard other, you know, remarks that are similar.
[48:44.360 --> 48:47.360]  You know, I think it's unavoidable when you have that many people.
[48:47.620 --> 48:50.580]  You just lose control of how to deal with the people.
[48:50.700 --> 48:51.780]  The people suddenly become...
[48:51.780 --> 49:03.220]  It was like Woodstock 99, you know, where basically the idea is to get as many people in there, charge as much money as you possibly can get away with, and just, you know, have no regard for them whatsoever.
[49:03.720 --> 49:05.680]  And that's what I saw time and time again.
[49:05.800 --> 49:09.200]  And it was really frustrating because I'd been to ones before where there were a lot of fun.
[49:09.300 --> 49:11.080]  And it just, it didn't seem like fun anymore.
[49:11.180 --> 49:16.420]  It seemed like the people running it just seemed to be all stressed and were, you know, I don't know.
[49:16.500 --> 49:19.460]  They were just in a very bad way.
[49:20.340 --> 49:24.600]  The film we were supposed to show, you know, we went out there to show Freedom Down Time.
[49:24.940 --> 49:30.600]  And they basically, they said we were going to show it on Saturday, and they didn't promote it.
[49:30.720 --> 49:35.760]  And then at the very last minute, literally the last minute, Saturday night, they just up and canceled it for no reason.
[49:35.960 --> 49:39.020]  Just after hundreds of people were coming to us saying, when's the film going to be shown?
[49:39.120 --> 49:39.680]  We were telling them.
[49:40.100 --> 49:43.460]  Just came up with some bogus excuse why they didn't have time anymore.
[49:44.180 --> 49:46.200]  And it was really, really a big disappointment.
[49:46.200 --> 49:51.260]  I mean, a lot of people didn't get to see the film just because somebody somewhere decided they didn't want to show it.
[49:52.960 --> 49:53.960]  And I don't know.
[49:54.200 --> 49:55.420]  I don't understand where that comes from.
[49:55.680 --> 49:56.480]  And you know, something else?
[49:56.620 --> 49:57.720]  This is really crazy.
[49:58.160 --> 50:06.860]  While they were looking to, you know, for that guest pass, whatever I was supposed to get, they tried to solve the problem by asking for a press pass.
[50:07.060 --> 50:09.300]  Because, you know, magazine, radio station, press.
[50:09.540 --> 50:15.480]  And I heard one of the staff people go on the radio in a really impassioned voice saying, do not give Emmanuel a press pass.
[50:15.640 --> 50:16.720]  He is not real press.
[50:17.300 --> 50:24.540]  Can you imagine that garbage at a hacker convention being told you're not real press because you put out a hacker magazine?
[50:24.820 --> 50:25.200]  Oh, yeah.
[50:25.260 --> 50:31.800]  The real press, what, NBC, CBS, the people that have treated you so well over the years, those are the ones you're going to run to.
[50:31.880 --> 50:33.400]  Those are the ones you're going to treat with respect.
[50:33.720 --> 50:38.360]  But the ones who are part of the community, who print about things, no, they're not real press.
[50:39.340 --> 50:41.780]  It'll be a long time before I go back there again, I'll tell you that.
[50:42.740 --> 50:44.540]  But there's lots of other hacker conventions.
[50:44.820 --> 50:45.180]  There are.
[50:45.300 --> 50:48.400]  There's one called TourCon coming up in San Diego, I think, in the beginning of September.
[50:48.540 --> 50:49.640]  There's PumpCon in Philadelphia.
[50:50.180 --> 50:51.840]  Is there ever going to be another HoHoCon?
[50:52.300 --> 50:53.020]  I don't know.
[50:53.200 --> 50:55.220]  For 10 years now, they've been saying, yeah, this year, definitely.
[50:55.340 --> 50:56.020]  And CuervoCon.
[50:56.580 --> 50:56.960]  CuervoCon.
[50:57.360 --> 51:01.680]  You know, it's time we started focusing on the smaller ones, really.
[51:01.680 --> 51:06.520]  Because when things get this big, it's like the Microsoft of hacker conventions.
[51:06.520 --> 51:07.500]  It's kind of hard, too.
[51:07.660 --> 51:09.900]  I mean, from a human being point of view.
[51:10.120 --> 51:13.460]  I mean, working on staff with H2K taught me a lot.
[51:13.600 --> 51:17.440]  I mean, I've worked at conventions before for other scenes and other situations.
[51:17.920 --> 51:21.720]  And it's like, most people who work these things, they quote-unquote volunteer.
[51:22.240 --> 51:26.820]  And suddenly, you get less and less volunteers as the amount of work ramps up.
[51:27.040 --> 51:30.840]  And who wants to volunteer to go through this for three or four days?
[51:31.060 --> 51:34.340]  So you get fewer and fewer people to control more and more people.
[51:34.500 --> 51:35.760]  And it gets kind of frustrating.
[51:35.760 --> 51:37.860]  It's important to open it up to as many people as possible.
[51:37.900 --> 51:38.940]  We tried to do that with H2K.
[51:39.020 --> 51:41.260]  I don't want to get into a comparison between H2K and DevCon.
[51:41.460 --> 51:41.480]  No, no, not at all.
[51:41.480 --> 51:42.440]  Because that's not what this is about.
[51:42.720 --> 51:43.700]  No, I'm just saying from my experience.
[51:43.700 --> 51:48.000]  I know we had a lot of problems, too, with, you know, we have 2,300 people ourselves.
[51:48.440 --> 51:50.700]  But I'd like to think that the problems were minor.
[51:50.760 --> 51:54.880]  And I'd like to also hear about any problems that might have occurred so that we can avoid them next time.
[51:55.500 --> 52:00.540]  It should never be, you know, at the stage where you treat people like they're concert attendees.
[52:00.980 --> 52:02.080]  That's how it felt.
[52:02.320 --> 52:02.860]  That's not what it's about.
[52:03.200 --> 52:04.700]  $2 for a bottle of water.
[52:04.980 --> 52:05.960]  Well, that's the hotel.
[52:05.980 --> 52:07.180]  We knew about that last year.
[52:07.240 --> 52:09.300]  The hotel is, like, gouging people ridiculously.
[52:09.800 --> 52:12.820]  And the funny thing is they had those corn dogs there, the hot dog corn dogs.
[52:12.820 --> 52:15.960]  People in New York City would not eat those.
[52:16.160 --> 52:17.680]  And I've eaten New York City hot dogs.
[52:17.720 --> 52:19.720]  And we all know how bad New York City hot dogs can be.
[52:20.020 --> 52:22.340]  They're, like, reconstituted disgruntled union employees.
[52:23.080 --> 52:25.720]  Well, the thing is there's other places to go, right, that are nearby.
[52:25.740 --> 52:29.320]  So you tell the hotel, don't sell your inflated prices to our people.
[52:29.700 --> 52:32.120]  The thing is there are people there who would rather do it.
[52:32.380 --> 52:35.400]  Well, then you put a big sign saying, if you're stupid, okay, buy here.
[52:35.400 --> 52:36.520]  If not, go somewhere else.
[52:36.660 --> 52:36.780]  Right.
[52:36.900 --> 52:37.960]  I mean, the thing is people...
[52:37.960 --> 52:38.900]  You're basically in bed with the people when you do that.
[52:39.220 --> 52:40.020]  People are stupid.
[52:40.020 --> 52:44.060]  I mean, some people would rather pay $2 for a bottle of water than walk across the street.
[52:44.260 --> 52:48.300]  I mean, I know there's a convenience store down the street that did an amazing amount of business.
[52:48.440 --> 52:49.700]  They were praising us.
[52:49.860 --> 52:51.320]  212-209-2900.
[52:51.620 --> 52:54.160]  We've rambled on a lot longer than I wanted to.
[52:54.300 --> 52:55.740]  Just so many things to cover tonight.
[52:55.900 --> 52:58.760]  And we're sorry because I know last week we didn't take any phone calls.
[52:58.880 --> 53:01.900]  So let's take as many as we can in the time that we have left.
[53:01.900 --> 53:08.700]  And again, just on this topic, I'm not trying to put down anybody in particular at that particular convention saying anyone.
[53:08.780 --> 53:10.360]  I saw a lot of people working really hard.
[53:10.840 --> 53:12.940]  And I saw a lot of people who were having fun.
[53:13.100 --> 53:13.680]  I had fun, too.
[53:13.780 --> 53:16.660]  Fortunately, I hung out with the right people and I had fun outside of the con.
[53:17.040 --> 53:25.700]  But, you know, the positive things were that there were rooms filled with people who were listening to what was being said on the podiums.
[53:25.700 --> 53:26.220]  And that's great.
[53:26.420 --> 53:27.800]  That's the kind of thing you have to encourage.
[53:28.840 --> 53:34.240]  But, you know, that's what the focal point of the convention should be, is the content.
[53:35.000 --> 53:41.120]  And, you know, I think you have to focus on those particular positive points and not the negative ones.
[53:41.180 --> 53:42.940]  But you have to address the negative ones.
[53:43.040 --> 53:47.480]  And when you have that many people, you're in danger of losing control of what it really is.
[53:47.520 --> 53:52.120]  And I think it was not really in the hacker spirit what happened last weekend.
[53:52.400 --> 53:53.440]  But we'll see.
[53:54.160 --> 53:55.760]  All right, let's take some phone calls.
[53:55.820 --> 53:56.400]  Let's go over here first.
[53:56.420 --> 53:56.700]  Good evening.
[53:56.820 --> 53:57.160]  You're on the air.
[53:58.500 --> 53:59.520]  You've got to speak quickly, though.
[53:59.580 --> 54:00.540]  We only have a little bit of time.
[54:01.020 --> 54:01.640]  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[54:02.200 --> 54:04.080]  I was at the HGK conference.
[54:04.240 --> 54:04.500]  Uh-huh.
[54:05.300 --> 54:06.460]  It was a great conference.
[54:06.640 --> 54:12.320]  And I'm just telling you, I don't know if you were in the audience, but I was the beatboxer.
[54:12.860 --> 54:13.940]  You were the beatboxer?
[54:14.200 --> 54:15.060]  Yeah, at the pre-show.
[54:16.460 --> 54:18.020]  The beatboxer at the what show?
[54:18.380 --> 54:21.060]  It was the HGK free downtime pre-show.
[54:21.280 --> 54:22.020]  Oh, okay.
[54:22.100 --> 54:24.720]  Well, you were probably in the other room, right, with the small screen?
[54:24.720 --> 54:29.440]  Yeah, I was in the other room going crazy wondering why we couldn't get the thing to play for an hour and a half.
[54:29.440 --> 54:34.180]  So, yeah, I wasn't in the mood to travel around and see other people throw stones at me for that, but...
[54:34.180 --> 54:37.140]  Yeah, so we entertained the audience this time.
[54:37.340 --> 54:37.840]  That's great.
[54:38.020 --> 54:44.080]  You know, that is what the hacker spirit is all about, waiting for an hour and a half for something to work and not losing your cool.
[54:44.080 --> 54:49.400]  You know, and I applaud you for that, because that really made things a lot more enjoyable, you know?
[54:49.480 --> 54:50.080]  But it was funny.
[54:50.340 --> 54:50.580]  All right.
[54:50.680 --> 54:51.680]  Well, thanks for attending.
[54:52.680 --> 54:52.960]  Sure.
[54:53.320 --> 54:55.420]  Do you want me to give you an example of what you want to do?
[54:55.900 --> 54:56.800]  An example of what?
[54:57.560 --> 54:57.840]  Beatboxer.
[54:57.920 --> 55:00.280]  If you can do it in 10 seconds, yeah, because we want to take some other calls.
[55:00.500 --> 55:00.780]  Go ahead.
[55:08.630 --> 55:08.910]  H2K.
[55:09.350 --> 55:09.870]  That's great.
[55:09.990 --> 55:10.850]  Okay, thanks very much.
[55:11.450 --> 55:12.250]  See you next time.
[55:14.430 --> 55:15.650]  That's what it is all about, I think.
[55:15.650 --> 55:16.010]  Yeah, it is.
[55:16.010 --> 55:20.330]  That was like, at DEF CON, the guy came in the suite playing Nine Inch Nails in the accordion.
[55:20.550 --> 55:21.110]  Now, that's cool.
[55:21.230 --> 55:21.710]  That was cool.
[55:21.710 --> 55:22.270]  That's very cool.
[55:22.270 --> 55:22.930]  We got that on tape.
[55:23.130 --> 55:23.430]  That was amazing.
[55:23.430 --> 55:24.310]  A lot of cool things happened.
[55:24.390 --> 55:25.530]  I'm not saying cool things didn't happen.
[55:25.610 --> 55:28.550]  I'm just saying bad things like what happened shouldn't happen.
[55:28.710 --> 55:31.550]  And it just, it really pissed me off so much that they didn't show the film, you know?
[55:31.570 --> 55:35.570]  They told me to come out to show the thing, and it was just like, there was no reason not to.
[55:35.910 --> 55:39.130]  Except some petty vendetta that some idiot someplace must have had.
[55:39.210 --> 55:43.310]  The same thing that, you know, they didn't want to give me a press pass, because I don't know why.
[55:43.410 --> 55:44.190]  I don't understand why.
[55:44.190 --> 55:47.750]  There were plenty of empty rooms with screens that were not being used.
[55:47.850 --> 55:49.090]  We would have shown the thing at midnight.
[55:50.030 --> 55:51.150]  Everybody wanted to see the film.
[55:51.250 --> 55:53.510]  Everybody was asking me about it, and I'm sorry.
[55:53.630 --> 55:54.270]  You know, what can we do?
[55:55.090 --> 55:57.010]  Well, maybe the film was just bad luck, you know?
[55:57.230 --> 55:59.010]  It takes an hour and a half to show at H2K.
[55:59.250 --> 56:00.510]  It doesn't get shown at all at DEF CON.
[56:00.710 --> 56:01.270]  I don't know.
[56:02.050 --> 56:03.010]  We'll just have to...
[56:03.010 --> 56:04.590]  Wait till it goes out on video.
[56:04.810 --> 56:05.010]  Yeah.
[56:05.650 --> 56:06.370]  Okay, let's go over here.
[56:06.390 --> 56:06.670]  Good evening.
[56:06.730 --> 56:07.110]  You're on the air.
[56:07.730 --> 56:08.290]  Hi, good evening.
[56:08.490 --> 56:09.610]  Three quick tidbits.
[56:09.770 --> 56:10.090]  Very quick.
[56:10.090 --> 56:11.050]  Relevant to things that came up.
[56:11.170 --> 56:11.390]  Hurry up.
[56:11.530 --> 56:13.950]  Last week at this time, I missed your program, because I was over...
[56:13.950 --> 56:23.430]  at a taping staffed by BAI personnel, mostly of history of covert domestic operations going all the way back to the Panthers in the 60s, including Operation Garden Plot.
[56:23.610 --> 56:23.870]  Oh, boy.
[56:23.990 --> 56:26.010]  Oh, look at that on the Hatton Neighborhood Network sometime soon.
[56:26.150 --> 56:27.470]  Frank Morales is a pretty...
[56:27.470 --> 56:28.530]  sort of an expert on that.
[56:28.670 --> 56:29.470]  He was on the panel, too.
[56:30.090 --> 56:30.390]  Excellent.
[56:32.190 --> 56:33.650]  Were you related to Sting?
[56:34.050 --> 56:36.590]  Yeah, I mean, even Shakespeare has other meanings.
[56:36.830 --> 56:38.030]  Possibly you could read into the word Sting.
[56:38.150 --> 56:39.770]  Death, where is thy sting?
[56:40.690 --> 56:43.850]  And you couldn't get Bell Atlantic, I believe, on the...
[56:43.850 --> 56:48.570]  touchtone by dialing 0-0-0-0, because that's not BAI's local carrier anymore, remember?
[56:48.770 --> 56:49.350]  Yeah, I know, I know.
[56:49.350 --> 56:54.090]  However, I did reach the business office of Bell Atlantic, and here's what I got, and you can hang up after this.
[56:54.190 --> 56:54.330]  Okay.
[56:55.930 --> 56:57.570]  Thank you for calling Bell Atlantic.
[56:57.950 --> 56:59.110]  Now, Verizon.
[56:59.510 --> 56:59.910]  Ooh.
[57:00.230 --> 57:00.610]  Got that?
[57:00.810 --> 57:01.530]  Very nice.
[57:01.690 --> 57:02.490]  Thank you so much.
[57:02.670 --> 57:02.710]  Okay, thank you.
[57:02.710 --> 57:03.050]  Okay, bye.
[57:03.230 --> 57:04.990]  All right, that's a listener that's prepared.
[57:05.250 --> 57:06.790]  That guy had his act together.
[57:07.270 --> 57:08.970]  All right, let's go over here.
[57:09.050 --> 57:09.390]  Good evening.
[57:09.550 --> 57:10.430]  You're on the air.
[57:11.770 --> 57:12.550]  Speak up, please.
[57:13.850 --> 57:15.950]  All right, that's your loss, not ours.
[57:16.030 --> 57:16.330]  Good evening.
[57:16.470 --> 57:17.010]  You're on the air.
[57:17.930 --> 57:18.390]  Oh, yes.
[57:18.390 --> 57:18.630]  Hello?
[57:18.790 --> 57:19.150]  How you doing?
[57:19.510 --> 57:19.710]  Hi.
[57:20.430 --> 57:24.990]  This is a multi-part question, but it's all generally the same question.
[57:25.070 --> 57:26.350]  Make it a quick multi-part question.
[57:26.550 --> 57:26.810]  Okay.
[57:27.670 --> 57:53.430]  When people register domain names, and if you can't get to it tonight, follow it up next week if you can, you know, first part of the question, who decides, how was it decided, and who decided that certain organizations or entities would receive money allowing people to register a domain name?
[57:54.130 --> 57:56.470]  What does that money go for?
[57:57.230 --> 57:58.330]  What is it used for?
[57:58.470 --> 57:59.750]  How is the price determined?
[58:00.150 --> 58:01.090]  Et cetera, et cetera.
[58:01.190 --> 58:01.830]  You know what I'm asking?
[58:01.950 --> 58:02.130]  Right.
[58:02.630 --> 58:03.530]  You need a whole show for that.
[58:03.610 --> 58:10.150]  Yeah, you do need a whole show for that, and that's something that's being asked a lot lately with registrars and companies like NSI.
[58:10.510 --> 58:11.810]  You know, it used to be free.
[58:11.990 --> 58:12.910]  Now they charge money.
[58:13.090 --> 58:14.010]  Where does the money go?
[58:14.370 --> 58:16.970]  You know, what gives them the right to do this in the first place?
[58:17.950 --> 58:19.190]  And how is the price determined?
[58:19.290 --> 58:20.410]  These are all things I don't know.
[58:20.410 --> 58:21.150]  I'd like to know.
[58:21.310 --> 58:24.090]  I'd like to know where this was all decided and how they figured it out.
[58:24.390 --> 58:26.150]  It doesn't seem right to me.
[58:26.190 --> 58:32.930]  When the net was first started, you just registered things, and it worked, you know, and there was no maintenance involved.
[58:34.690 --> 58:39.330]  So if anyone has answers, please mail them in to us, along with the garden plot information too.
[58:39.370 --> 58:40.330]  We'd like to see that as well.
[58:41.090 --> 58:42.050]  Okay, let's go over here.
[58:42.350 --> 58:42.890]  Good evening.
[58:42.970 --> 58:43.410]  You're on the air.
[58:44.490 --> 58:47.010]  Yes, I'm talking about the lapse of security.
[58:47.290 --> 58:47.610]  Uh-huh.
[58:47.610 --> 58:59.710]  Um, there was a report in the news that someone got robbed because, uh, you know how those telephone intercom things work, where you push the button and it rings your phone?
[58:59.910 --> 59:00.270]  Right, right.
[59:00.570 --> 59:00.770]  Yeah.
[59:01.310 --> 59:02.110]  Interguard systems.
[59:02.450 --> 59:02.650]  Yeah.
[59:02.810 --> 59:10.210]  Okay, somebody took a touch-tone phone or a tone dialer, let themselves in with a two-digit or one-digit code or whatever, and robbed a person.
[59:10.610 --> 59:12.870]  Yeah, that's, uh, that's extremely common, in fact.
[59:12.990 --> 59:15.710]  Those systems are, they're not very safe.
[59:15.830 --> 59:16.530]  I think we all know that.
[59:16.530 --> 59:17.390]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[59:18.130 --> 59:19.470]  All right, that person's no longer there.
[59:19.550 --> 59:20.430]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[59:22.370 --> 59:23.510]  Okay, that person was never there.
[59:23.630 --> 59:24.810]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[59:25.010 --> 59:25.170]  Oops.
[59:25.750 --> 59:26.250]  There we are.
[59:26.390 --> 59:27.090]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[59:27.550 --> 59:28.790]  Hi, this is Bertha.
[59:29.110 --> 59:29.470]  How you doing?
[59:30.050 --> 59:32.890]  Hi, I'm sorry, Mr. H2K, because I was sick.
[59:32.990 --> 59:34.390]  My diabetes was out of control.
[59:34.610 --> 59:34.770]  Oh, dear.
[59:34.770 --> 59:36.530]  But I want to say hi to everybody.
[59:36.650 --> 59:44.830]  And also, do you know anyone who would like to put Linux on a computer that's kind of dead because your cat's ratted behind it?
[59:44.950 --> 59:46.630]  I'm 300 pounds of loveliness.
[59:47.210 --> 59:51.610]  If you do, can you email rosaphilia at webtv.net?
[59:51.750 --> 59:52.750]  I'm stuck on webtv.
[59:52.970 --> 59:53.590]  God, it sucks.
[59:53.710 --> 59:59.010]  It's Internet Explorer 3, and it's slow and clunky, but hey, I can do some things on it.
[59:59.430 --> 01:00:03.650]  But R-O-S-A-P-H-I-L-I-A at web...
[01:00:04.150 --> 01:00:06.750]  That's our closing theme, meaning you have to hurry up really fast.
[01:00:06.750 --> 01:00:08.870]  Oh, rosaphilia at webtv.net.
[01:00:09.210 --> 01:00:11.450]  Okay, thanks very much for that call.
[01:00:11.810 --> 01:00:15.410]  Bernie, thank you very much for your updates on the Republican Convention.
[01:00:15.770 --> 01:00:17.270]  We'll talk about the aftermath next week.
[01:00:17.570 --> 01:00:21.830]  Del Chai, thanks for your fascinating story of hijacking in the air, even though it really never left the ground.
[01:00:22.050 --> 01:00:22.710]  Never left the ground, thank goodness.
[01:00:22.730 --> 01:00:23.530]  And I'm Emmanuel.
[01:00:23.530 --> 01:00:27.790]  I'll be back next week at the same time with another exciting show and God knows what.
[01:00:27.990 --> 01:00:28.230]  Good night.
[01:01:01.670 --> 01:01:05.150]  It's been rumored that when he was young and foolish, George W.
[01:01:05.330 --> 01:01:09.650]  Bush gobbled up more cocaine than the entire Bolivian military junta.
[01:01:09.890 --> 01:01:10.330]  But W.
[01:01:10.730 --> 01:01:18.770]  is now a drug war hawk, yet responsible for so many ODs by way of lethal injection that he's considered a leading cause of death in the state of Texas.
[01:01:18.770 --> 01:01:25.930]  And now, this son of George Herbert Walker Bush stands at the ready to receive the Republican nomination for president.
[01:01:26.190 --> 01:01:27.090]  What can you do about it?
[01:01:27.250 --> 01:01:42.710]  Well, you can join us August 1st at the Shadow Convention in Philadelphia, where families of drug law POWs, opponents of the war in Colombia, and activists outraged at the ethnic cleansing that is the bedrock of drug McCarthyism will convene to let the world know that all the children deserve a chance,
[01:01:42.790 --> 01:01:46.290]  and not just the ones born with a silver spoon in their nose.
[01:01:46.290 --> 01:01:50.350]  For transportation, call 212-539-8441.
[01:01:50.550 --> 01:01:54.070]  That's 212-539-8441.
[01:01:54.310 --> 01:02:01.750]  This has been a public service announcement by WBAI on behalf of the WMK Fund.
[01:02:01.930 --> 01:02:02.650]  I know it.
[01:02:06.130 --> 01:02:14.570]  Yes, this is WBAI 99.5 FM in New York, your community-sponsored radio.
[01:02:14.570 --> 01:02:19.050]  Coming up next, Tahrir, hosted by Barbara Nimri-Aziz.