[00:06.930 --> 00:09.050]  The Palestinian reality?
[00:09.530 --> 00:12.030]  What's really happening in the Muslim lands?
[00:12.410 --> 00:14.950]  A new memoir by Professor Laila Ahmed?
[00:15.550 --> 00:18.930]  Or Muslim political candidates in the USA?
[00:19.650 --> 00:27.050]  These and more are questions you can hear discussed on Tahrir, WBAI's magazine of the Arab Muslim community.
[00:27.750 --> 00:36.110]  Marhaba, I'm Barbara Nimri-Aziz, and I'd like you to join me and our Tahrir staff every Tuesday night at 9 o'clock.
[00:36.190 --> 00:38.970]  That's Tuesdays from 9 to 10 p.m.
[00:39.290 --> 00:44.870]  here on listener-sponsored WBAI 99.5 FM in New York.
[00:45.050 --> 00:48.670]  You're sure to find something new and sometimes controversy.
[00:50.830 --> 00:54.870]  And it's no exception here on WBAI New York where controversy is about to begin.
[00:55.710 --> 00:56.670]  Off the hook.
[01:00.580 --> 01:05.180]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:06.080 --> 01:10.640]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[01:11.480 --> 01:16.060]  It couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
[01:16.340 --> 01:19.000]  Bum-Dilly-Bum, but I best expect the worst.
[01:19.680 --> 01:21.520]  I hope that's understood.
[01:21.740 --> 01:22.640]  Bum-Dilly-Bum!
[03:06.520 --> 03:08.000]  And a good evening to everybody.
[03:08.020 --> 03:10.800]  The program is off the hook here on a special fundraising night.
[03:11.160 --> 03:15.080]  A mini-drive, as you wish, which only lasts one week.
[03:15.080 --> 03:17.220]  So we'll be asking for your help later on in the program.
[03:17.320 --> 03:18.620]  Well, actually, you can call in now, too.
[03:18.820 --> 03:21.240]  Just make sure that you're calling for off the hook.
[03:21.240 --> 03:24.420]  Look, 212-209-2900.
[03:24.620 --> 03:26.880]  Is that right, or is it 2950?
[03:26.960 --> 03:27.920]  Oh, hang on a second.
[03:29.280 --> 03:30.300]  I believe it's...
[03:30.300 --> 03:31.940]  You know the phone number's not on this thing here?
[03:32.880 --> 03:33.660]  I don't see it.
[03:33.840 --> 03:34.460]  I don't see it.
[03:34.700 --> 03:38.400]  No, I see an 800 number for overnight things, but they don't have the phone number to call right now.
[03:39.720 --> 03:40.380]  2950, okay.
[03:41.200 --> 03:44.260]  212-209-2950 is the number to call if you want to make a pledge.
[03:44.480 --> 03:44.600]  Okay.
[03:44.920 --> 03:49.220]  It's a good idea to write it down, though, just to be absolutely sure, for people who lose their memories like me.
[03:50.840 --> 03:55.340]  Well, it's been, as usual, a hectic week, but this week more so than normal.
[03:56.620 --> 03:57.240]  Hello, Isaac.
[03:57.480 --> 03:57.940]  How are you?
[03:58.320 --> 04:00.480]  These are the first words I've spoken to you in quite a while.
[04:00.660 --> 04:01.360]  In a couple weeks.
[04:01.460 --> 04:02.500]  I haven't spoken to you at all today.
[04:03.060 --> 04:03.580]  That's true.
[04:03.780 --> 04:04.060]  All right.
[04:04.120 --> 04:05.340]  I have not greeted you in any way.
[04:05.340 --> 04:06.560]  I called you, but I got your machine.
[04:06.740 --> 04:07.040]  Fine.
[04:07.040 --> 04:09.100]  I have not actually spoken to you while.
[04:09.180 --> 04:13.520]  I've just been doing this for the purposes of the audience, so that we can go through with our usual...
[04:13.520 --> 04:14.380]  This is not pre-planned.
[04:14.460 --> 04:15.480]  Not pre-planned at all.
[04:15.540 --> 04:18.600]  The things Isaac is going to say is coming directly from him.
[04:18.600 --> 04:20.480]  I did not pay him to say these things.
[04:21.260 --> 04:24.800]  So, just for the benefit of the audience there.
[04:25.280 --> 04:27.220]  Alex also joins us from the other side of the room.
[04:27.420 --> 04:27.820]  Hello.
[04:28.080 --> 04:28.500]  Good evening.
[04:28.800 --> 04:30.120]  Good morning, whatever it is.
[04:30.620 --> 04:31.340]  And Bernie S.
[04:31.600 --> 04:34.080]  is with us, too, over the telephones.
[04:35.320 --> 04:38.640]  Yes, not far from the current Frommhold Correctional Facility.
[04:38.980 --> 04:39.240]  All right.
[04:39.340 --> 04:42.200]  Well, we will turn you down because you're giving away things you shouldn't be giving away.
[04:42.820 --> 04:46.040]  And despite Verizon, Bernie S.
[04:46.160 --> 04:46.600]  is with us.
[04:46.920 --> 04:47.700]  Now, Isaac.
[04:47.960 --> 04:48.380]  Yes, sir.
[04:48.860 --> 04:50.140]  You've been following the news lately.
[04:51.720 --> 04:52.120]  Somewhat.
[04:52.400 --> 04:54.240]  I'm only just getting back from holiday.
[04:54.240 --> 04:57.420]  So, I'm still trying to catch up on tens of thousands of emails.
[04:57.420 --> 04:58.400]  We are getting back from holiday.
[04:58.780 --> 05:00.360]  Did you go to hospital while you were on holiday?
[05:00.480 --> 05:01.260]  Did you go to university?
[05:01.860 --> 05:03.480]  Or just coming back from holiday?
[05:04.580 --> 05:05.020]  All right.
[05:05.120 --> 05:05.340]  Anyway.
[05:06.300 --> 05:06.900]  How nice.
[05:07.620 --> 05:08.960]  Can you hear about what happened in Philadelphia?
[05:09.560 --> 05:12.320]  I heard a lot of people got the cuffs slapped on them.
[05:12.420 --> 05:12.600]  Yeah.
[05:13.320 --> 05:15.860]  And there are some outrageous bail set.
[05:16.160 --> 05:16.680]  Outrageous bail?
[05:16.700 --> 05:17.560]  A million dollar bail.
[05:17.840 --> 05:18.360]  A million dollars.
[05:18.660 --> 05:19.740]  A million dollars for...
[05:19.740 --> 05:20.660]  Is this anyone we know?
[05:21.280 --> 05:22.400]  Well, is that all you heard?
[05:22.480 --> 05:24.040]  You just heard that people got arrested?
[05:24.040 --> 05:26.280]  I heard that a number of people were arrested.
[05:26.280 --> 05:29.800]  I don't recall what for, but I've been hearing a lot about very high bails.
[05:30.120 --> 05:30.520]  Republicans.
[05:30.920 --> 05:31.760]  Republicans were arrested.
[05:31.760 --> 05:34.040]  All these Republicans came into town uninvited.
[05:34.820 --> 05:35.280]  Oh, yes.
[05:35.320 --> 05:35.840]  The convention, of course.
[05:35.840 --> 05:36.840]  Rampaging all over the place.
[05:36.960 --> 05:37.840]  Oh, they were certainly invited.
[05:37.840 --> 05:38.900]  Something had to be done.
[05:39.080 --> 05:39.880]  Oh, they were invited.
[05:40.780 --> 05:48.760]  Maybe I have my facts wrong, but my understanding was that there were thousands of Republicans all around the place, and all mayhem broke loose.
[05:49.140 --> 05:55.240]  Actually, I was down there last week, and as some of you may have heard, I was actually in the middle of one of the demonstrations.
[05:55.240 --> 06:04.980]  I think it was on the corner of Broad and Spruce down there in Philadelphia, where basically an entire street was blocked by demonstrators, and eventually a bunch of them were hauled away.
[06:05.240 --> 06:09.700]  And the one thing I remember saying was that it was not an unpleasant event.
[06:09.700 --> 06:11.520]  It was rather carnival-like.
[06:11.520 --> 06:14.860]  You know, people were playing soccer in the middle of the street, and it was a big street, like Park Avenue.
[06:15.920 --> 06:18.300]  And, you know, eventually, of course, people got dragged away.
[06:18.440 --> 06:27.000]  Now, you don't see the bad things that happen, of course, because the bad things usually happen when the cameras aren't rolling, and when there aren't very many people watching.
[06:27.480 --> 06:29.460]  And that's when I understood most of the bad things happened.
[06:29.580 --> 06:41.000]  And certainly, since that day, a lot of really bad things have happened, insofar as people people we know, people you know, have been taken away and held for outrageous amounts.
[06:41.120 --> 06:46.300]  Now, imagine, you're standing there, in a street, demonstrating, blocking traffic, okay.
[06:46.620 --> 06:50.780]  It's, you know, part of civil disobedience, you kind of mess things up a little bit.
[06:51.080 --> 06:53.800]  It's, some people disagree with it, some people are into it.
[06:54.180 --> 06:57.560]  But regardless, a million dollars bail for something like that?
[06:57.640 --> 07:03.700]  A million dollars for obstructing traffic seems a wee out of proportion.
[07:03.700 --> 07:08.940]  Now, I've been reading reports, I've been in Philadelphia, several days since last week.
[07:09.120 --> 07:10.640]  And I'll explain why in a moment.
[07:12.720 --> 07:16.020]  And reading the papers, it's like another planet.
[07:16.320 --> 07:25.260]  The things they're saying, it makes it sound as if these people are running around like crazy anarchists, burning down buildings, and hurting people, and things like that.
[07:25.540 --> 07:39.420]  And when you witness it yourself, when you see what's actually happening, you realize that what they're writing is just basically based on press releases, PR, whatever people are telling them, without actually going out and finding the story.
[07:39.560 --> 07:40.720]  And where have we heard that before?
[07:40.940 --> 07:42.200]  We've heard that with the Bernie S.
[07:42.300 --> 07:42.420]  case.
[07:42.560 --> 07:44.940]  We've heard that with the Kevin Mitnick case, with the fiber optic case.
[07:45.460 --> 07:52.040]  All the things that we've become familiar with over the years, the media just doesn't get right because they don't go out and find the story.
[07:52.120 --> 07:52.900]  They don't do the work.
[07:52.960 --> 07:53.880]  They don't do the research.
[07:53.880 --> 08:00.760]  So it seems like a simple enough thing to do, but it's a lot easier to sit back and report what you're told.
[08:01.600 --> 08:06.100]  And that, of course, leads to more frustration on the part of people demonstrating against certain things.
[08:06.300 --> 08:08.840]  And it's just a big snowball effect.
[08:09.280 --> 08:14.660]  Now, what happened was several hundred people were arrested and held, held for many days.
[08:14.660 --> 08:15.880]  Some of them are still in prison.
[08:15.980 --> 08:17.300]  We're talking about a week now.
[08:18.080 --> 08:20.300]  We've heard some really, really horrible accounts.
[08:20.300 --> 08:29.360]  But most importantly to us is one of our people, who you may know as Shapeshifter, was taken in as one of the leaders.
[08:29.820 --> 08:31.340]  Maybe you don't know him as Shapeshifter.
[08:31.600 --> 08:32.700]  I'm familiar.
[08:32.900 --> 08:34.160]  It just kind of surprises me.
[08:34.460 --> 08:35.220]  It surprises you?
[08:35.420 --> 08:35.760]  Yes.
[08:35.980 --> 08:37.040]  You know him.
[08:37.140 --> 08:37.760]  What's his bail?
[08:38.500 --> 08:39.300]  $500,000.
[08:39.480 --> 08:40.720]  It was $500,000.
[08:41.120 --> 08:42.880]  Now, you seem quite shocked.
[08:43.080 --> 08:43.140]  What do you mean was?
[08:43.380 --> 08:54.940]  Yeah, I mean, I've seen some cases being at the DA's office where the judge actually has to scold his Ellis district attorney when they ask for bail, because the point of bail is not to punish the person.
[08:55.280 --> 08:59.320]  The point of bail is so that someone will return to court on their court date.
[08:59.420 --> 08:59.540]  Yeah.
[08:59.760 --> 09:01.160]  It has nothing to do with the punishment.
[09:02.240 --> 09:04.600]  And $500,000 for this is ridiculous.
[09:04.860 --> 09:06.320]  Well, what I heard the judge...
[09:06.320 --> 09:06.740]  Is he a flight risker?
[09:06.900 --> 09:07.880]  Well, no, obviously not.
[09:07.880 --> 09:11.420]  He lives in Philadelphia, and he's lived there all his life, and he has close ties to the community.
[09:11.520 --> 09:12.480]  But we'll get into that in a moment.
[09:13.240 --> 09:21.220]  What I heard the judge, and I've been to court the last few days, what I've heard the judge say repeatedly is that that is why the bail is high, so that they do return to court.
[09:21.580 --> 09:26.320]  By taking half a million dollars, basically, they're ensuring that the people will come back.
[09:26.480 --> 09:27.400]  When is his court date?
[09:27.660 --> 09:28.100]  Do they know that?
[09:28.100 --> 09:29.580]  That hasn't even been established yet.
[09:29.980 --> 09:30.000]  Oh, that's ridiculous.
[09:30.160 --> 09:45.320]  But anyway, what has been going on over the past few days, and if you've been reading the 2600 website and the Independent Media Center, who I don't know what we'd do without, you would have found out that there have been hearings over the past couple of days to reduce bail.
[09:45.520 --> 09:50.560]  Yesterday, I believe, two people were addressed.
[09:51.280 --> 09:59.200]  One person was from California, and he's the alleged head of this Ruckus Society, which is what they're known as.
[09:59.320 --> 09:59.800]  Now, of course...
[09:59.800 --> 10:00.600]  The Ruckus Society.
[10:00.600 --> 10:02.880]  Yeah, that name makes people smirk like you're smirking right now.
[10:03.080 --> 10:09.640]  It made the judge smirk, and all kinds of people who don't really understand what it's all about.
[10:09.860 --> 10:13.880]  They think that it's all about turning over cars and starting fires and making noise.
[10:13.880 --> 10:16.640]  These are the most peaceful people I know, and I do know a lot of them.
[10:16.960 --> 10:25.980]  And they basically are into non-violent protesting and occasional civil disobedience, which even the judge seemed to understand was not illegal in itself, civil disobedience.
[10:26.240 --> 10:27.380]  A lot of people think that it is.
[10:28.000 --> 10:32.560]  So yesterday, we had two people that came before the court.
[10:32.860 --> 10:40.900]  One person was this alleged ringleader of the Ruckus Society who comes from California and was being held on $1 million bail on misdemeanors.
[10:41.580 --> 10:45.840]  Basically just, you know, walking down the street, failure to disperse.
[10:45.960 --> 10:48.740]  All these, like, nonsensical type of charges.
[10:48.740 --> 10:49.800]  Failure to disperse.
[10:50.340 --> 10:52.060]  I think resisting arrest.
[10:52.360 --> 10:53.900]  I'm not sure if that was one of them, actually.
[10:54.540 --> 10:55.880]  Maybe it wasn't resisting arrest.
[10:55.980 --> 10:56.700]  It was...
[10:57.300 --> 10:57.980]  I'm not sure.
[10:58.040 --> 10:58.860]  I have it written down someplace.
[10:59.000 --> 11:00.420]  But they were all very minor things.
[11:00.500 --> 11:06.140]  And one of them was known as PIC, P-I-C, Possession of an Instrument of Crime.
[11:06.140 --> 11:12.360]  And in this particular case, the instrument of crime was a cell phone, because he was using the cell phone to talk to other people.
[11:12.800 --> 11:12.820]  To coordinate efforts, yes.
[11:12.820 --> 11:13.600]  So they've...
[11:13.600 --> 11:22.300]  It's basically like the whole Bernie S thing all over again, you know, where certain things that are commonly obtained become instruments of crime just because they say so.
[11:22.300 --> 11:36.120]  So anyway, after arguing that this person was a menace to society, the judge reduced his bail all the way down to $100,000, which, in actuality, you just have to raise 10% of that.
[11:36.280 --> 11:37.100]  So it's $10,000.
[11:37.200 --> 11:38.580]  I mean, it's still talking about a lot of money.
[11:38.740 --> 11:40.300]  It might as well be trillions of dollars here.
[11:40.440 --> 11:42.560]  You know, all your bails are reduced from a trillion dollars to a billion dollars.
[11:42.680 --> 11:43.160]  Well, aren't we nice?
[11:44.180 --> 11:47.220]  I've seen violent sex offenders with...
[11:47.220 --> 11:52.020]  I think when I saw him, this really violent sex offender, it was ridiculous.
[11:52.020 --> 11:55.800]  I don't even want to go into the details of the charges that just make you vomit.
[11:56.020 --> 11:56.640]  Yeah, I know.
[11:56.780 --> 11:57.400]  And that's...
[11:57.400 --> 11:58.760]  I've seen that over and over again, too.
[11:58.860 --> 12:00.560]  When Bernie was in jail, it was the same thing.
[12:00.700 --> 12:01.880]  Yeah, he went up to the judge.
[12:02.100 --> 12:04.420]  The DA asked for a $10,000 bail.
[12:04.840 --> 12:06.320]  The judge thought that was ridiculous.
[12:06.560 --> 12:07.460]  Set it at $1,500.
[12:08.120 --> 12:09.660]  This is a violent sex offender.
[12:10.580 --> 12:10.900]  Unbelievable.
[12:11.680 --> 12:12.500]  Bernie, you're with us.
[12:13.100 --> 12:15.060]  Oh, thank you for taking the gag off my mouth.
[12:15.140 --> 12:19.760]  Well, I don't want you to give out any more information about where you are or what you're doing until we...
[12:19.760 --> 12:20.500]  Oh, you know I see my mouth shut.
[12:20.640 --> 12:23.460]  Oh, you didn't just before, so we don't want to give out any more information.
[12:24.800 --> 12:36.660]  So, basically, let's take it up to the point where we were yesterday and today, basically, in court in Philadelphia, dealing with...
[12:36.660 --> 12:42.600]  There was a reason yesterday why Shapeshifter's bail reduction hearing did not happen yesterday.
[12:42.740 --> 12:43.580]  Yes, I was about to get to that.
[12:43.900 --> 12:45.260]  His was postponed.
[12:45.440 --> 12:46.180]  Do you want to tell us about that?
[12:46.520 --> 12:56.520]  Well, the Assistant District Attorney in Philadelphia stated that additional charges were pending, additional more serious charges were pending against Shapeshifter.
[12:57.500 --> 12:59.020]  He didn't say Shapeshifter, but...
[12:59.020 --> 13:00.180]  Are we going to use his real name here or not?
[13:00.200 --> 13:02.640]  Well, we might as well now, because I should point out...
[13:02.640 --> 13:03.060]  Public knowledge.
[13:03.060 --> 13:03.920]  The reason...
[13:03.920 --> 13:09.760]  Well, it's public knowledge, but also the reason we've been keeping quiet about his name was because of very real threats of retribution inside prison.
[13:10.820 --> 13:15.380]  I was at a press conference yesterday outside the courthouse where parents...
[13:15.380 --> 13:23.460]  And we talk about, you know, middle-class parents from suburbia here were absolutely in shock at what they were hearing from the prisons that was going on with these people.
[13:24.380 --> 13:26.760]  Some of it is really very graphic.
[13:26.900 --> 13:29.440]  I'd rather not get into it right now, and we don't actually have time.
[13:29.440 --> 13:36.320]  But if you go to phillyimc.org on the net, you'll be able to read all kinds of reports.
[13:36.500 --> 13:44.600]  But basically, parents saying that their kids were being humiliated, beaten, all kinds of horrible things happening to them inside prison.
[13:44.640 --> 13:49.640]  And when you think, they've been in there for a week, and these are people that have probably never seen the inside of a courthouse, let alone a jail.
[13:50.120 --> 13:50.880]  And for what?
[13:50.960 --> 13:52.800]  For basically being part of a protest?
[13:53.020 --> 13:53.980]  Sometimes not even that.
[13:53.980 --> 13:55.320]  Sometimes not sometimes for walking down the street.
[13:56.200 --> 13:59.900]  Extremely heavy-handed response by the authorities in Philadelphia.
[14:00.100 --> 14:06.040]  And I think at least a part of the reason is to keep people away from the Democratic Convention in Los Angeles next week.
[14:06.420 --> 14:07.720]  I don't think that's going to happen.
[14:07.720 --> 14:12.640]  I think there's going to be just as much of a demonstration there as there should be.
[14:14.180 --> 14:14.580]  So...
[14:15.180 --> 14:22.340]  There are these new, more serious pending charges that were going to be filed against Terrence, according to the assistant district attorney yesterday.
[14:22.880 --> 14:24.140]  So he asked for another delay.
[14:24.140 --> 14:25.540]  By the way, his real name is Terrence.
[14:25.640 --> 14:27.340]  We didn't actually say that, but you just did.
[14:27.380 --> 14:27.860]  I thought you said Terrence.
[14:27.940 --> 14:29.480]  Maybe you said Perrence, and it sounded like Terrence.
[14:29.500 --> 14:32.260]  Yeah, so Terrence is his real name, and that's what we know him as.
[14:33.380 --> 14:37.620]  And he does the layout for 2600 Magazine, in case we didn't mention that as well.
[14:37.720 --> 14:44.920]  And if you've been reading 2600 over the past couple of issues, you will have noticed that it's taken on kind of a fresh look, and that's because of Terrence.
[14:45.340 --> 14:47.460]  So he's a valued member of our staff.
[14:48.660 --> 14:50.640]  So this hearing didn't take place yesterday.
[14:50.800 --> 14:54.040]  I mean, it was postponed in another day in a cage.
[14:54.380 --> 14:59.000]  So it was scheduled again today at 12.30, I guess it was.
[14:59.200 --> 15:04.960]  And you, Emanuel, came down again this morning from New York.
[15:05.340 --> 15:07.320]  And, of course, I'm fortunate to be here in Philadelphia.
[15:07.400 --> 15:08.940]  Maybe I'm not so fortunate to be living in Philadelphia.
[15:08.940 --> 15:10.840]  Well, I'll tell you something about that in a little while.
[15:10.840 --> 15:14.720]  But I've learned all about Amtrak trains and various differences between them.
[15:14.800 --> 15:17.300]  I found that there's no difference between the Acela and the regular train.
[15:17.420 --> 15:19.440]  Same price, same speed, just a different color.
[15:19.580 --> 15:20.120]  That's about it.
[15:20.360 --> 15:22.560]  Other than that, that's the extent of my education.
[15:22.700 --> 15:23.400]  Well, we can debate that.
[15:24.780 --> 15:25.720]  Look at the schedule.
[15:25.880 --> 15:26.680]  It's the same exact speed.
[15:26.680 --> 15:28.120]  I think the napkins are different.
[15:28.240 --> 15:29.040]  We'll talk afterwards.
[15:29.520 --> 15:30.080]  Anyway.
[15:30.540 --> 15:33.740]  So we had the hearing this morning, or at 12.30 today.
[15:33.900 --> 15:35.100]  It was started actually on time.
[15:35.240 --> 15:36.300]  I was surprised.
[15:37.520 --> 15:54.440]  And the district attorney announced, the assistant district attorney announced, that based on the evidence that there was no, not enough evidence to charge parents with additional offenses, which is completely opposite of what he was saying yesterday.
[15:54.700 --> 15:58.380]  So I don't know, you know, whether he lost what he had or whether he was lying yesterday.
[15:58.760 --> 16:01.060]  Or he just wanted to keep him in prison another night, you know.
[16:01.080 --> 16:01.660]  That's what I think.
[16:01.780 --> 16:03.600]  I mean, it was blatant falsehood.
[16:03.760 --> 16:06.980]  I mean, if they had this information, then, well, let's see it.
[16:07.080 --> 16:08.360]  But now they had nothing today.
[16:10.360 --> 16:16.180]  So Terrence's attorney pretty effectively argued that Terrence was not a risk of flight.
[16:16.180 --> 16:22.040]  There was some game-playing by the assistant district attorney as to exactly which address Terrence lived at.
[16:22.140 --> 16:24.420]  Now, that was unbelievable.
[16:25.220 --> 16:26.700]  Basically, I've been to Terrence's house...
[16:26.700 --> 16:27.400]  It's been on for like half an hour.
[16:27.520 --> 16:28.440]  Well, ten minutes, maybe.
[16:28.540 --> 16:29.500]  But it was a while.
[16:29.720 --> 16:30.960]  But I've been to Terrence's house.
[16:31.020 --> 16:31.980]  You've been to Terrence's house.
[16:32.620 --> 16:38.740]  It's basically in West Philadelphia, the part which a lot of people think is really dangerous.
[16:38.760 --> 16:44.560]  They're actually building it up and fixing up these old houses that they're able to buy as sheriff's auctions.
[16:45.040 --> 16:48.240]  And what had happened was Terrence had lived in one of those houses.
[16:48.240 --> 16:49.460]  I think there were three altogether.
[16:50.280 --> 16:54.740]  And because somebody wanted to live with somebody else in that house, he moved across the street.
[16:54.880 --> 16:57.640]  And you would think that he had committed some crime by doing that.
[16:57.720 --> 17:00.520]  The address differed by a single digit.
[17:00.700 --> 17:04.600]  But they went on for at least ten minutes about how...
[17:04.600 --> 17:06.920]  Well, is he giving us real information here?
[17:07.040 --> 17:08.360]  Is he lying?
[17:08.360 --> 17:10.380]  If he's lying about that, he must be lying about everything else.
[17:10.420 --> 17:10.920]  He's a terrorist.
[17:11.040 --> 17:12.040]  Lock him up for the rest of his life.
[17:12.560 --> 17:14.040]  It kept escalating from there.
[17:14.040 --> 17:17.680]  And I'm just sitting there with my head in my hands saying, Oh my God, I've been to that house.
[17:17.700 --> 17:18.760]  I know what they're talking about.
[17:18.800 --> 17:19.860]  I know what they're describing.
[17:20.060 --> 17:21.320]  He's telling the truth, right?
[17:21.400 --> 17:23.060]  Why won't they at least give him the chance?
[17:24.100 --> 17:30.240]  Unfortunately, to complicate matters, the assistant district attorney had sent a police detective over to Terrence's house this morning.
[17:31.460 --> 17:35.840]  And of course, the ADA was representing the house as some run-down house.
[17:35.960 --> 17:36.780]  It looks like it's abandoned.
[17:36.940 --> 17:37.920]  It doesn't look like that at all.
[17:38.060 --> 17:39.220]  I mean, it looks like people live there.
[17:39.220 --> 17:46.160]  And in fact, the detective supposedly was surprised that somebody even answered the door of such a ramshackle place.
[17:46.220 --> 17:51.820]  Well, these are people who live in a nice part of the neighborhood, you know, so they're not used to people living in these kind of houses, I guess.
[17:51.960 --> 18:04.760]  So someone came to the door, and apparently, according to the detective, someone came to the door, said she was a house guest, and when she was questioned, did Terrence live here, she said, no.
[18:05.320 --> 18:14.380]  So apparently, if somebody came to my house, or came to my host's house, and I was a house guest, and the police came looking for them, I wouldn't say, yeah, they live here.
[18:14.600 --> 18:17.680]  You know, I'd be like, I don't want to talk to you, or no, or whatever.
[18:17.840 --> 18:21.100]  So apparently, that's what happened, unless the detective lied, which is entirely possible.
[18:21.220 --> 18:21.480]  Yeah.
[18:21.680 --> 18:23.080]  It's an understandable response.
[18:23.080 --> 18:35.240]  That adds to all the confusion, but bottom line, Terrence's employer, one of his employers showed up and was able to produce pay stubs, which indicated he lived on that block, and so forth.
[18:35.520 --> 18:40.360]  So finally, Terrence's attorney was able to get the judge to knock the bail down.
[18:40.540 --> 18:53.480]  The district attorney wanted it to be $200,000, but apparently, this gentleman from North Carolina yesterday, who's bailed with a million dollars, who was knocked down to $100,000.
[18:53.680 --> 18:54.980]  No, I think you have it backwards.
[18:55.200 --> 18:57.880]  The guy from California was knocked down to $100,000.
[18:58.040 --> 18:58.420]  California, I'm sorry.
[18:58.700 --> 19:03.000]  North Carolina, they refused to knock that down from $450,000, so he's still $450,000.
[19:03.060 --> 19:04.280]  But he was charged with felonies.
[19:04.440 --> 19:05.920]  I'm not sure what the felonies were.
[19:06.080 --> 19:08.140]  I think he knocked over a cop's bicycle or something.
[19:08.360 --> 19:08.580]  Oh, yeah.
[19:08.680 --> 19:12.540]  Certainly, he threw a bicycle in the police chief's direction.
[19:13.500 --> 19:14.060]  Is that what...
[19:14.060 --> 19:15.340]  He's alleged to have...
[19:15.340 --> 19:17.680]  I've heard so many stories, so I'm not really sure.
[19:18.660 --> 19:20.160]  Felonies bicycling or something, you know?
[19:20.160 --> 19:22.380]  Well, it's been turned into assault for the police officers.
[19:22.380 --> 19:24.260]  Yeah, a bicycle is a deadly weapon, like a chair is.
[19:24.340 --> 19:26.000]  Somebody got killed for that a couple of weeks ago.
[19:26.300 --> 19:28.540]  Well, I'm hearing now, Bernie, there wasn't really a chair.
[19:28.640 --> 19:30.820]  The guy was just flailing his arms about and the cop shot him.
[19:30.820 --> 19:32.720]  No, he looked like a chair or something.
[19:33.180 --> 19:35.380]  Well, maybe he just said chair and they panicked.
[19:36.140 --> 19:36.440]  Whatever.
[19:36.740 --> 19:38.880]  There's all this credibility stuff coming up with the police down.
[19:39.180 --> 19:41.060]  What is going on down there?
[19:41.080 --> 19:42.180]  What's going on down there, Bernie?
[19:42.180 --> 19:52.880]  Years ago, people might have seen the national video coverage from a news helicopter of about a dozen Philadelphia police officers kicking a man on the ground, repeatedly.
[19:53.080 --> 19:54.040]  It was like a mob scene.
[19:54.160 --> 19:55.460]  Just kicking the crap out of him.
[19:55.460 --> 19:56.760]  Oh, but it was totally justified, Bernie.
[19:57.080 --> 20:02.120]  The man, he stole a police car, he stole a police car and he shot point blank at a cop.
[20:02.220 --> 20:02.740]  I mean, come on.
[20:02.820 --> 20:10.480]  Well, it comes out last night, a district attorney, Lynn Abraham of Philadelphia, admitted rather sheepishly, that, oh, there was no gun.
[20:11.600 --> 20:15.940]  The officer who was indeed shot was shot by another cop by accident.
[20:17.540 --> 20:20.220]  So, why were they shooting at a guy who had no gun?
[20:21.760 --> 20:22.700]  Because they could.
[20:23.940 --> 20:25.400]  Okay, well, in any event...
[20:25.400 --> 20:26.700]  They enjoy that sort of thing, apparently.
[20:26.840 --> 20:28.980]  And they enjoy kicking a man on the ground repeatedly by...
[20:28.980 --> 20:30.320]  After they shot him, they were...
[20:30.320 --> 20:30.620]  Yeah.
[20:30.800 --> 20:30.980]  Okay.
[20:31.220 --> 20:31.720]  So, whatever.
[20:31.720 --> 20:33.460]  He may have had a wallet.
[20:33.900 --> 20:37.580]  I just wanted to bring up a 4LB police officer's credibility here, because it's an issue.
[20:38.720 --> 20:50.060]  And in this case, it's an issue, too, because the types of crimes that Terrence is accused of committing, a possession of instruments of crime, when it's simply walking down the street with a cellular phone, I mean, it's ludicrous.
[20:50.260 --> 20:50.420]  Yeah.
[20:50.740 --> 21:06.200]  Well, apparently they recognized him as one of the ringleaders, and I'm sure some of that probably came from the conference, from H2K, where he was basically talking about activism quite a bit, and I'm sure in the panel that you and he did together on the RNC and DNC,
[21:06.360 --> 21:17.620]  there were probably some people in the audience taking pictures and turning them in and targeting him down there, even though he was not actually doing anything except talking to people on the phone, walking down the street, and organizing...
[21:17.620 --> 21:18.680]  Yeah, he's an organizer.
[21:18.900 --> 21:23.060]  And, you know, I thought in this country it wasn't illegal to organize things, but apparently it's getting that way.
[21:23.320 --> 21:30.220]  Well, worse than that, worse than being illegal, the chief of Philadelphia police, John Timoney, who's from New York, I might add.
[21:30.360 --> 21:32.960]  And I saw him riding his bike outside the Independent Media Center.
[21:33.140 --> 21:33.660]  How about that?
[21:33.780 --> 21:34.440]  That was weird.
[21:34.680 --> 21:37.020]  So, New Yorkers up there probably remember his name.
[21:37.080 --> 22:00.360]  I don't know what kind of a police chief he was up there in New York, but here in Philadelphia he's being well-liked by the general populace, but those of us who understand what's going on are not liking him so much, because now he's been talking about making these sorts of activist activities investigatable by federal authorities under the RICO statutes.
[22:00.560 --> 22:01.260]  Oh, please.
[22:01.260 --> 22:08.240]  So he basically wants to make civil disobedience prosecutable under federal RICO statutes.
[22:08.340 --> 22:25.620]  I don't know if people are familiar with the RICO statutes, but if you read them, it's a big, vague wording you've ever read in your life about, basically, it can be applied to more than two people in any situation, who's just sort of planned anything,
[22:25.760 --> 22:31.640]  or one of them might have done something that could be construed to be planning to do something illegal.
[22:31.820 --> 22:35.240]  It just, it goes to these extreme situations.
[22:35.560 --> 22:41.520]  Well, it's like a lot of these laws that we see lately, where they're extremely vague and be applied to any situation, and the penalties are really severe.
[22:41.520 --> 22:50.360]  This is extreme from the standpoint that where nothing actually happens, it's just where there's three people talking about something that could be violation of RICO statutes.
[22:50.560 --> 22:56.980]  The scary thing about the federal RICO statutes is the federal sentencing guidelines under RICO are incredibly long sentences.
[22:57.160 --> 23:01.660]  We're talking 10, 20, 30 years to life for violating RICO statutes.
[23:01.840 --> 23:13.320]  And John Timoney, our chief of police in Philadelphia, is now publicly stating that he feels that this this civil disobedience type should be prosecuted under federal RICO statutes.
[23:13.540 --> 23:15.120]  Now, this is really serious stuff.
[23:15.200 --> 23:16.480]  Well, it becomes a jurisdiction issue.
[23:16.480 --> 23:17.040]  People should be very concerned about this.
[23:17.220 --> 23:31.440]  Well, what I consider to be even more frightening than that, I was reading your newspapers on the way back today on the train, and almost every article is something crying out for blood of the demonstrators, as if the demonstrators had completely destroyed the city.
[23:31.720 --> 23:35.180]  The only blood that happened in Philadelphia was of the demonstrators.
[23:35.180 --> 23:37.160]  Yeah, that's the way it seems.
[23:37.320 --> 23:40.880]  I have yet to see any evidence of any lasting damage other than...
[23:40.880 --> 23:45.320]  I mean, yeah, there are probably some morons going around, you know, slashing a tire or two.
[23:46.080 --> 23:50.200]  But, I mean, how can you possibly castigate all of the demonstrators?
[23:50.760 --> 23:52.880]  There's going to be a few people that get out of hand.
[23:53.060 --> 23:53.620]  I mean, absolutely.
[23:53.800 --> 23:56.820]  That's like arresting Jesse Jackson when it's OJ you want, you know.
[23:58.140 --> 24:03.520]  You cannot simply categorize an entire...
[24:03.520 --> 24:04.680]  Why are you smiling and nodding?
[24:04.680 --> 24:05.440]  That ain't bad.
[24:06.600 --> 24:07.560]  No, I'm just considering.
[24:07.700 --> 24:08.420]  I wasn't nodding.
[24:08.560 --> 24:08.840]  I was...
[24:08.840 --> 24:16.020]  Yeah, well, in any event, you know, you cannot take an entire group of people and take the worst of them and apply it to all of them.
[24:16.040 --> 24:17.140]  And that is what has happened here.
[24:17.320 --> 24:21.420]  And if you read the articles in the papers, and Bernie, it's like one voice.
[24:21.420 --> 24:30.700]  What I'm reading in the papers there is like one voice where they're simply condemning the demonstrators and not even addressing the issues that they were bringing up.
[24:30.740 --> 24:32.760]  And they were bringing up so many issues, so many important things.
[24:32.760 --> 24:35.420]  There's a good reason, Emmanuel, why I sound all like one voice.
[24:35.580 --> 24:39.900]  It's because they're all quoting the same police and district attorney people.
[24:40.360 --> 24:43.040]  They're not doing any investigating most of these reporters.
[24:43.200 --> 24:51.680]  They're just basically regurgitating what the PR departments of the police department and the district attorney office are.
[24:51.680 --> 24:53.300]  It's like, you know, that's not reporting.
[24:53.500 --> 24:54.240]  I think there's something else.
[24:54.560 --> 24:56.480]  Aren't your newspapers owned by the same people?
[24:56.980 --> 25:05.140]  Yeah, the two main newspapers in Philadelphia, the Philadelphia Inquirer and the Philadelphia Daily News, are both owned by the same company, P&I.
[25:05.140 --> 25:07.320]  I don't even understand the reasoning behind that.
[25:07.380 --> 25:07.980]  There's no competition.
[25:08.020 --> 25:14.260]  There's no incentive for, you know, to be, well, we'll be more accurate and truthful than our competition.
[25:14.480 --> 25:16.920]  They don't have to worry about that because they're the same people.
[25:18.400 --> 25:29.540]  Folks, if you're hearing this for the first time, or even if you're not hearing this for the first time, and you haven't heard it anyplace else, that alone is a reason to support the station, 212-209-2950.
[25:30.140 --> 25:32.580]  We have several pledge levels here.
[25:33.080 --> 25:35.100]  You can get a WBAI t-shirt.
[25:35.400 --> 25:37.020]  You know, I got to get a WBAI t-shirt.
[25:37.020 --> 25:37.720]  Yeah, it's a pretty nifty looking t-shirt.
[25:37.720 --> 25:44.600]  I think I'm going to get one myself later on because, you know, when you walk around with a WBAI t-shirt, people know you have a clue, and also some people know that you might be dangerous.
[25:44.600 --> 25:48.840]  You could actually wind up being prosecuted under the RICO statute in some cities.
[25:49.740 --> 25:52.340]  But for a pledge of $75, you'll get that.
[25:53.160 --> 25:57.500]  Also, a baseball cap for a pledge of $75, a coffee mug, a tote bag.
[25:57.680 --> 26:03.280]  But, you know, the real reason to call in and pledge is not to get t-shirts and tote bags and coffee cups and that kind of thing.
[26:03.340 --> 26:04.240]  It's to show support.
[26:04.340 --> 26:11.060]  It's to keep the station going because guess what we have not had a single one of in the last 25 minutes, or actually in the last 25 years.
[26:11.520 --> 26:12.080]  What's that?
[26:13.400 --> 26:14.100]  Oh, come on.
[26:14.100 --> 26:14.520]  A commercial?
[26:14.640 --> 26:15.000]  Very good.
[26:15.080 --> 26:15.320]  Thank you.
[26:15.320 --> 26:15.780]  Yes, okay.
[26:15.860 --> 26:21.580]  There has not been a single commercial on this radio station, and the reason for that is because you are our sponsors.
[26:21.960 --> 26:22.380]  That's right.
[26:22.480 --> 26:23.660]  Our listeners are our sponsors.
[26:24.140 --> 26:25.980]  You're the people that tell us what's going on.
[26:26.080 --> 26:27.800]  You're the people that feedback to us.
[26:27.880 --> 26:29.040]  You're the people that we serve.
[26:29.260 --> 26:31.360]  We don't answer to any other higher power.
[26:31.580 --> 26:32.620]  It's as simple as that.
[26:32.620 --> 26:34.760]  So, 212-209-2950.
[26:35.400 --> 26:37.680]  Let's fill up the lines.
[26:38.600 --> 26:40.020]  Don't forget the triple pack.
[26:40.620 --> 26:41.620]  Oh, yes, triple pack.
[26:41.740 --> 26:42.660]  Okay, I was blocked by the microphone.
[26:42.660 --> 26:48.760]  For those people who are really into the t-shirts and tote bags and stuff like that, you can go for the triple pack for a pledge of $125.
[26:48.760 --> 26:52.460]  $125, you get the t-shirt, the baseball cap, and the tote bag.
[26:52.580 --> 26:52.940]  That's right.
[26:53.100 --> 26:53.800]  It's not a bad deal.
[26:53.880 --> 26:54.900]  Yeah, it's not a bad deal at all.
[26:54.980 --> 26:56.440]  And plus, you get the radio station.
[26:56.780 --> 26:57.320]  Well, yes.
[26:57.460 --> 27:05.140]  That's the most important deal of all because, you know, even if there was nothing, we gave you nothing back for that $125, you'd still...
[27:05.140 --> 27:05.640]  We do give you something back.
[27:05.940 --> 27:06.580]  That's what I'm saying.
[27:06.660 --> 27:07.900]  We would be giving you something back.
[27:08.020 --> 27:09.360]  We would be giving you radio back.
[27:09.840 --> 27:13.740]  And you may not know this, but you do pay for all those other radio stations.
[27:13.760 --> 27:15.040]  You pay for them every day.
[27:15.080 --> 27:18.660]  No matter what you buy, the cost of advertising is factored into that.
[27:18.760 --> 27:22.520]  And that goes into other radio stations' budgets, and you pay for it.
[27:22.520 --> 27:23.320]  They just don't ask you.
[27:23.380 --> 27:24.500]  They take it in other ways.
[27:24.800 --> 27:30.080]  But you can't simply elect to, you know, to lob off the advertising cost of a product.
[27:30.100 --> 27:31.400]  It's all factored in there.
[27:31.400 --> 27:38.560]  So you do wind up paying, and you don't wind up being a part of the station, like we include all our listeners here.
[27:38.880 --> 27:41.080]  212-209-2950.
[27:41.460 --> 27:42.120]  Please, let's see.
[27:42.200 --> 27:43.860]  Where's that thing that tells me how many calls I'm getting?
[27:44.020 --> 27:44.220]  Is it over?
[27:45.220 --> 27:45.920]  Oh, there it is.
[27:46.020 --> 27:47.100]  We have one call on the line.
[27:47.200 --> 27:47.800]  Oh, come on.
[27:48.060 --> 27:48.780]  Come on, folks.
[27:48.880 --> 27:58.500]  I know there's people out there that have not heard of what's going on in Philadelphia, and have not heard what's going on in the hacker world, and have not seen the relationship between all these different things that are happening.
[27:59.220 --> 28:00.960]  And this show opens up eyes.
[28:01.180 --> 28:08.420]  Well, we need to know that those eyes are opened up, and, you know, some wallets get opened up, too, you know, and keep the station going.
[28:08.440 --> 28:10.660]  Because we're not going to get a grant from Exxon.
[28:10.740 --> 28:12.060]  We're not going to get money from Pepsi.
[28:12.060 --> 28:16.520]  We're not going to get Starbucks underwriting this hour anytime soon.
[28:17.020 --> 28:18.940]  Unless you want us to do things like that.
[28:19.060 --> 28:23.620]  And then the whole context of the station will change, all right?
[28:24.140 --> 28:24.900]  Case in point.
[28:25.000 --> 28:26.080]  Starbucks sucks, okay?
[28:26.080 --> 28:28.780]  I could not say that if Starbucks was sponsoring us.
[28:28.840 --> 28:32.860]  I couldn't say that if Starbucks was sponsoring, you know, Robert Knight's program tomorrow night.
[28:32.940 --> 28:33.760]  I couldn't.
[28:33.860 --> 28:37.860]  I wouldn't be allowed to, because they have a say, then, in the programming, you know?
[28:38.140 --> 28:39.460]  Well, they can force that hand.
[28:39.460 --> 28:40.840]  Yeah, and they do.
[28:40.940 --> 28:41.700]  They do all the time.
[28:42.040 --> 28:42.460]  Go ahead.
[28:42.660 --> 28:43.060]  Go ahead.
[28:43.160 --> 28:44.160]  Call any station.
[28:44.320 --> 28:47.580]  Any station and dare them to say, Microsoft sucks.
[28:48.200 --> 28:48.660]  Come on.
[28:48.840 --> 28:49.600]  Any station.
[28:50.280 --> 28:50.920]  Microsoft sucks.
[28:51.040 --> 28:51.780]  Yeah, well, I'll say it.
[28:51.840 --> 28:52.040]  Go ahead.
[28:52.700 --> 28:53.340]  Microsoft sucks.
[28:53.860 --> 28:54.420]  Come on, Isaac.
[28:54.580 --> 28:55.160]  Why are you looking at me?
[28:55.160 --> 28:55.500]  Come on.
[28:55.700 --> 28:56.080]  Say it.
[28:56.300 --> 28:56.680]  Come on.
[28:56.740 --> 28:57.220]  Just do it.
[28:57.280 --> 28:57.700]  All right.
[28:58.060 --> 29:01.040]  Microsoft has some policies that I tend to disagree with.
[29:02.020 --> 29:03.640]  Look, John Drake's all the way in from Canada.
[29:04.220 --> 29:04.580]  Say it.
[29:05.200 --> 29:05.840]  Microsoft sucks.
[29:05.960 --> 29:06.100]  See?
[29:06.180 --> 29:06.680]  He can do it.
[29:06.680 --> 29:06.920]  All right.
[29:07.040 --> 29:07.860]  Microsoft sucks.
[29:07.860 --> 29:09.280]  I can't believe he said that.
[29:10.360 --> 29:11.440]  I'm going to send that in.
[29:11.620 --> 29:13.600]  You know, I heard another great reason to...
[29:13.600 --> 29:14.860]  Well, it's not an issue of them giving me money either.
[29:15.560 --> 29:18.100]  212-209-2950, another call on the line.
[29:18.180 --> 29:20.820]  I want to see, you know, five or six calls on the line.
[29:20.940 --> 29:24.020]  It's not a big major, you know, investment here.
[29:24.140 --> 29:25.520]  You can pay with a credit card.
[29:25.780 --> 29:28.880]  You know, it can take ten years to pay and add to the national debt or whatever.
[29:29.660 --> 29:31.180]  It's the simplest thing in the world.
[29:31.300 --> 29:33.040]  I pledged last pledge drive.
[29:33.420 --> 29:35.520]  And I pledged a pretty significant amount, I might say.
[29:35.620 --> 29:36.920]  And it was really cool.
[29:36.920 --> 29:37.880]  I'm glad I did it.
[29:37.960 --> 29:38.900]  I don't regret it for a second.
[29:39.120 --> 29:40.700]  And I don't only pledge to this station.
[29:40.780 --> 29:41.880]  I pledge to other stations as well.
[29:42.420 --> 29:46.220]  And you need to do this because if you don't, someone else is going to do it for you.
[29:46.400 --> 29:49.820]  And that somebody may take over in a very bad way.
[29:49.960 --> 29:50.500]  It does happen.
[29:50.580 --> 29:50.900]  Yes, Bernie.
[29:52.180 --> 29:53.400]  Yes, I pledged also.
[29:54.000 --> 29:55.900]  Did somebody break the ice yet on this pledge?
[29:56.040 --> 29:57.420]  I mean, do we need to get something rolling here?
[29:57.920 --> 29:58.740]  Somebody call in yet?
[29:58.860 --> 29:59.920]  We have someone on the line.
[30:00.040 --> 30:00.320]  One person.
[30:00.660 --> 30:01.820]  We have two calls.
[30:02.100 --> 30:02.740]  We have two calls.
[30:03.100 --> 30:03.780]  Okay, that's good.
[30:03.860 --> 30:04.360]  That's a good start.
[30:04.360 --> 30:06.640]  All right, 212-209-2950.
[30:06.880 --> 30:16.480]  Let's get two more calls, then we can go back to more material that we have to share about what's been going on in Philadelphia, what's been going on with Terrence, a shapeshifter, our layout person.
[30:16.480 --> 30:19.140]  And it's amazing when it strikes close to home, you know.
[30:19.740 --> 30:21.900]  He's been involved so much over the years.
[30:21.900 --> 30:23.200]  And this kid is only 19.
[30:23.580 --> 30:25.780]  And he's an inspiration to anyone who meets him.
[30:25.920 --> 30:29.300]  Just because he takes an interest in so much that's going on around him.
[30:29.540 --> 30:41.680]  To see him suddenly on the Philadelphia police website with a picture saying that he's, you know, he's guilty of masterminding all kinds of evil things and he's being held on $500,000 bail.
[30:41.860 --> 30:42.540]  That was a bit odd.
[30:42.540 --> 30:43.760]  It's scary.
[30:44.000 --> 30:45.760]  You realize how close to home these things can hit.
[30:45.860 --> 30:50.040]  You realize how easily the public perception can be swayed.
[30:50.240 --> 30:52.080]  Because it's all bought and paid for.
[30:52.240 --> 30:54.500]  It's all controlled very simply.
[30:54.660 --> 30:59.780]  And it gets easier every year with consolidation, with things being run by fewer and fewer people.
[30:59.780 --> 31:02.020]  212-209-2950.
[31:02.200 --> 31:03.240]  Three people on the line.
[31:03.360 --> 31:06.400]  We just need one more call and then we can go back to the material that we're doing.
[31:06.500 --> 31:10.520]  And please pledge generously so we can say that we did good for BAI.
[31:10.680 --> 31:14.500]  Because BAI has kept us on the air since 1988 with this radio program.
[31:14.880 --> 31:16.020]  And go to the website.
[31:16.180 --> 31:17.160]  Listen to the radio programs.
[31:17.220 --> 31:18.900]  Listen to the things that we've done over the years.
[31:19.060 --> 31:23.960]  We talked to Bernie when he was in prison suffering for almost two years.
[31:24.400 --> 31:28.300]  That kind of programming would not have been possible on any other radio station.
[31:28.300 --> 31:30.780]  No other radio station, no other media outlet took an interest.
[31:31.180 --> 31:33.660]  And it changed things.
[31:34.040 --> 31:35.720]  Bernie might still be in prison right now.
[31:35.800 --> 31:39.020]  He might not even be in war shape the way they were treating you.
[31:39.080 --> 31:41.440]  You were on death's doorknob or whatever.
[31:41.720 --> 31:42.420]  You were pretty close.
[31:42.780 --> 31:43.140]  Death's doorknob?
[31:43.240 --> 31:43.680]  I don't know.
[31:44.260 --> 31:46.720]  You were definitely in sight.
[31:48.680 --> 31:51.040]  I mean, these people will stop at nothing.
[31:51.460 --> 31:54.720]  We're not talking about, you know, evil people in school.
[31:54.720 --> 32:07.000]  We're talking about evil people with prisons, you know, and people with guns who don't like you and will not hesitate to do nasty things and lie and put you in bad positions.
[32:07.000 --> 32:08.260]  It happens all the time.
[32:08.740 --> 32:10.660]  I've learned a lot just from doing this radio show.
[32:10.760 --> 32:15.180]  I've learned a lot by being part of the hacker community and looking at the other things that are going on in the world.
[32:15.720 --> 32:19.020]  And it's a journey I like to think that other people have been taking with me.
[32:19.480 --> 32:21.440]  And it's something that we do every week here.
[32:21.520 --> 32:25.460]  We want to be able to continue doing this for a long time to come and get more people involved as well.
[32:25.640 --> 32:27.800]  212-209-2950.
[32:28.660 --> 32:31.060]  I think more calls came in.
[32:31.300 --> 32:33.580]  I think somebody hung up and then another person came in.
[32:33.580 --> 32:33.680]  Oh, yeah?
[32:33.800 --> 32:36.580]  But you know what would make me for sure know that more people...
[32:36.580 --> 32:36.960]  One more for good.
[32:36.960 --> 32:37.340]  One more call.
[32:37.420 --> 32:38.640]  I want to see all four lit up at once.
[32:38.760 --> 32:43.280]  So before one of those three people hangs up after finishing their pledge, and it goes pretty quickly too.
[32:43.280 --> 32:44.660]  Some people can do it in 30 seconds.
[32:45.220 --> 32:46.560]  Let's get a couple more calls.
[32:46.800 --> 32:47.620]  Or at least one more call.
[32:47.740 --> 32:49.380]  212-209-2950.
[32:49.600 --> 32:52.940]  If you're out of the country, don't fear country code one.
[32:53.500 --> 32:56.680]  I think if you're in England, you just dial 00, then plus one.
[32:56.800 --> 32:57.660]  And one, then the area code.
[32:57.880 --> 32:58.460]  Pretty simple.
[32:58.640 --> 32:59.120]  212-209-2950.
[32:59.600 --> 32:59.920]  Go ahead.
[32:59.980 --> 33:00.320]  Take a picture.
[33:01.480 --> 33:06.720]  You know, I heard another good reason to get a t-shirt today when I was listening to WBAI.
[33:06.940 --> 33:09.000]  And it was pretty interesting, actually.
[33:09.240 --> 33:10.320]  You listen to WBAI?
[33:10.320 --> 33:11.640]  Oh, I actually listen to it.
[33:11.720 --> 33:12.360]  I really do.
[33:12.540 --> 33:13.000]  It's neat.
[33:13.280 --> 33:14.780]  And in fact, I'm going to be making a pledge.
[33:14.920 --> 33:15.240]  Oh, wow.
[33:15.300 --> 33:15.600]  Look at that.
[33:15.700 --> 33:16.360]  It just bumped up.
[33:16.440 --> 33:18.280]  I think they're anticipating my new reason.
[33:19.000 --> 33:19.020]  Wait a minute.
[33:19.020 --> 33:19.820]  There's seven calls in the world.
[33:20.800 --> 33:22.220]  So this reason was pretty great.
[33:22.320 --> 33:23.220]  This guy made a good point.
[33:23.300 --> 33:28.360]  He said, you know, if you wear your WBAI t-shirt around, it's a great way to pick up women.
[33:28.920 --> 33:29.480]  It is?
[33:30.760 --> 33:32.840]  And I'm thinking, how does he get away with this?
[33:32.900 --> 33:33.680]  How does that happen?
[33:33.680 --> 33:36.680]  He says, well, you know, they'll probably ask you, what the hell is WBAI?
[33:36.760 --> 33:38.880]  And you say to them, well, it's pretty complicated.
[33:38.880 --> 33:41.220]  You know, maybe I could explain it to you over dinner.
[33:41.800 --> 33:42.800]  Well, that's not bad.
[33:43.060 --> 33:43.160]  Yeah.
[33:43.380 --> 33:46.540]  Wouldn't any four random letters get you the same effect?
[33:46.540 --> 33:48.680]  I think WBAI is sort of esoteric.
[33:48.760 --> 33:49.960]  You never see that anywhere else.
[33:50.040 --> 33:51.500]  It's difficult to pronounce in one single word.
[33:51.500 --> 33:51.960]  I'll say this.
[33:52.260 --> 33:53.520]  WBAI is known worldwide.
[33:54.180 --> 33:56.220]  When I was in Berlin, I found the book in German.
[33:56.340 --> 33:58.500]  I couldn't understand any of it, but it was about WBAI.
[33:58.600 --> 33:59.400]  And I thought that was amazing.
[33:59.560 --> 34:03.720]  I was looking at it and they were mentioning people and shows and events.
[34:04.380 --> 34:08.240]  It gives you an idea of just how unprecedented a resource this station is.
[34:08.340 --> 34:09.140]  So become a member.
[34:09.280 --> 34:10.120]  It's just $50.
[34:10.460 --> 34:11.440]  You get your card.
[34:12.240 --> 34:13.380]  I know what some people think.
[34:13.420 --> 34:14.700]  You'll be reported to the FBI.
[34:14.860 --> 34:15.580]  You'll be a subversive.
[34:15.600 --> 34:16.080]  You're not reported to them.
[34:16.080 --> 34:16.640]  But you know what?
[34:16.680 --> 34:17.640]  It's not so bad.
[34:18.360 --> 34:20.480]  Being down there in Philadelphia and seeing some of the people.
[34:20.480 --> 34:21.660]  I want to tell you something that happened today.
[34:21.760 --> 34:23.360]  And this was really amazing.
[34:23.940 --> 34:29.900]  They brought in a lot of people who had been charged with very minor crimes, but they hadn't been giving their names.
[34:30.040 --> 34:31.840]  Sometimes when people get arrested, they don't give their names.
[34:31.920 --> 34:32.520]  They don't cooperate.
[34:32.640 --> 34:33.740]  They try to bog down the system.
[34:34.320 --> 34:36.540]  And sometimes what happens is they just let go.
[34:36.680 --> 34:40.960]  Sometimes, as in this case, they're forced to play their hand and kept in prison for a week.
[34:42.280 --> 34:45.660]  So eventually they gave in and said they were going to give their names.
[34:45.660 --> 34:48.560]  And they all gave their names from a release on their own reconnaissance.
[34:48.560 --> 34:50.260]  And that was the nicest that I saw that judge be.
[34:50.520 --> 34:52.640]  You know, she seemed to actually be smiling at these people.
[34:52.760 --> 34:54.380]  Maybe she's just happy that they had been broken.
[34:54.520 --> 34:56.360]  But there was this one person.
[34:56.500 --> 34:58.920]  Everyone had to give their names and addresses.
[34:59.340 --> 35:01.880]  And there was this one person who gave his name, but he had no address.
[35:01.880 --> 35:02.880]  This guy was homeless.
[35:02.880 --> 35:02.900]  Homeless.
[35:04.080 --> 35:09.320]  And it was really quite a conundrum because the judge kept saying, I don't know what to do with this guy.
[35:10.240 --> 35:12.740]  It was kind of a microcosm of the nation in general.
[35:12.920 --> 35:14.100]  What do we do with homeless people?
[35:14.140 --> 35:14.800]  Where do we put them?
[35:14.840 --> 35:15.260]  I don't know.
[35:15.360 --> 35:16.820]  I don't know what to do with this person.
[35:16.900 --> 35:17.820]  And she had no answer.
[35:19.840 --> 35:26.280]  Almost instantly, within a minute, one of the people in the audience stood up and said, he can stay at my house.
[35:26.660 --> 35:30.220]  You know, I'll give him an address if that will get him out of prison.
[35:30.360 --> 35:36.420]  And so right there, this person was given a home with one of the people who had come there to show support for the demonstrators.
[35:36.500 --> 35:42.180]  And I just thought, what better indication of the kind of people that we're dealing with here, people who are open and generous like that.
[35:42.220 --> 35:48.800]  I mean, I don't know very many people who would do that, who would just basically give their home to a stranger who was really in dire straits.
[35:48.880 --> 35:52.840]  And just the look of appreciation on his face was unbelievable.
[35:52.840 --> 35:54.560]  I've never seen anything quite like that.
[35:54.700 --> 35:55.900]  I've never seen such a gesture.
[35:56.260 --> 35:58.320]  And I think everybody in the courtroom felt that as well.
[35:58.400 --> 36:04.720]  And it was really very emotional also seeing the people that had been locked up for a week coming in and having their friends wave at them.
[36:04.800 --> 36:08.700]  I mean, it was just unbelievable to think that they had been in there for so long.
[36:08.720 --> 36:09.600]  And it really is long.
[36:09.700 --> 36:11.400]  I mean, I went down for the Amadou Diallo thing.
[36:11.400 --> 36:12.440]  I was in for an afternoon.
[36:12.740 --> 36:14.120]  And that seemed like forever.
[36:14.180 --> 36:16.980]  But this was a week under really bad conditions.
[36:17.300 --> 36:19.640]  Sometimes seven people in a cell designed for two.
[36:20.360 --> 36:24.240]  And to see your friends out there when you come out, it means so much.
[36:24.360 --> 36:41.480]  I know because, you know, again, this is no comparison at all, but being on trial for the whole DECSS mess, being up there on the stand and being cross-examined by the hostile prosecution, seeing your friends out there, you know, just being there in the audience and showing support by attending,
[36:42.000 --> 36:43.580]  that makes all the difference in the world.
[36:43.580 --> 36:49.460]  I can't imagine the feeling these people had after being in prison and then coming out and seeing their friends waiting for them.
[36:49.540 --> 36:51.140]  That must be the most amazing thing in the world.
[36:51.420 --> 36:52.820]  So stand up and be seen.
[36:52.980 --> 36:54.080]  You know, we need your support.
[36:54.220 --> 36:54.560]  That's right.
[36:54.720 --> 36:54.960]  That's right.
[36:55.060 --> 36:57.160]  212-209-2950.
[36:57.500 --> 36:58.300]  It really is something.
[36:58.580 --> 36:59.360]  $50 basic membership.
[37:00.160 --> 37:04.040]  $75 pledge will get you a t-shirt, a baseball cap, a coffee mug, or a tote bag.
[37:04.160 --> 37:09.780]  Or, if you want to go all out, $125 pledge will get you the t-shirt, baseball cap, and tote bag.
[37:09.780 --> 37:11.160]  I want to read something.
[37:11.480 --> 37:26.760]  Now, this goes in the face of all the crazy accusations that have been flying around on the Philadelphia media and the silence, the virtual silence that's been in the media everywhere else, except on WBAI and relatively few other places as well.
[37:26.880 --> 37:29.140]  And the international media, I think, is paying some attention to this.
[37:30.660 --> 37:42.860]  But if you just paid attention to the Philadelphia media, you would think that Terence was some kind of a terrorist that was, you know, lighting cars on fire and throwing rocks and things like that.
[37:43.340 --> 37:48.160]  I want to read you something his mother wrote, which I thought was simply unbelievable.
[37:49.420 --> 37:55.980]  I am soliciting... this was written to a lot of elected officials and people who actually could make a difference.
[37:56.140 --> 38:02.400]  I am soliciting your assistance in a letter campaign to help my son receive justice and appropriate bail on the city of Philadelphia.
[38:02.400 --> 38:09.320]  The district attorney's office continues to engage in disproportionately punitive measures to those seeking to exercise their First Amendment rights.
[38:09.840 --> 38:12.340]  Unprecedented bail is being set for misdemeanor charges.
[38:13.420 --> 38:18.200]  I urge District Attorney Lynn Abraham to immediately release Terence and to handle all prosecutions fairly.
[38:18.460 --> 38:25.240]  My 19-year-old son, Terence McGuckin, was arrested in Philadelphia on Wednesday, August 2, 2000, during the Republican Convention.
[38:25.500 --> 38:31.760]  He is charged with obstruction of justice, failure to disperse, possession of an instrument of crime, and reckless endangerment.
[38:31.760 --> 38:34.980]  His alleged instrument of crime was a cell phone.
[38:35.220 --> 38:41.180]  He was not actively participating in civil disobedience, but merely observing the protests happening within the city of Philadelphia.
[38:41.740 --> 38:44.140]  Terence's bail has been set at $500,000.
[38:44.640 --> 38:47.640]  The district attorney portrayed Terence as a risk to the community.
[38:48.100 --> 38:53.800]  All of his alleged violations are misdemeanors, not felonies, yet his bail has been set higher than suspected murderers and rapists.
[38:54.300 --> 38:59.640]  Terence is a nonviolent person who respects the rights of all people and is committed to nonviolent conflict resolution.
[38:59.640 --> 39:04.960]  Terence has deep ties to the community and is working to make Philadelphia a better place to live one day at a time.
[39:05.180 --> 39:11.940]  He is a community leader in West Philadelphia and demonstrates pride in our community on a daily basis, even putting his personal safety at risk.
[39:12.220 --> 39:17.580]  Terence directly confronts drug dealers within his West Philadelphia community so that they did not approach the children.
[39:17.580 --> 39:20.140]  This is actually something that I heard only for the first time today.
[39:20.320 --> 39:24.140]  Apparently what had happened was these drug dealers were in West Philadelphia.
[39:24.140 --> 39:30.440]  They were approaching kids, and they had been warned to stay away from them, and Terence turned a hose on them.
[39:30.580 --> 39:32.880]  I think it was a fire hydrant hose or something.
[39:33.000 --> 39:33.860]  He just turned a hose on them.
[39:33.920 --> 39:35.140]  I don't know if it was one guy or two guys.
[39:35.200 --> 39:37.460]  I mean, that takes guts.
[39:37.740 --> 39:38.700]  I don't know if I could do something.
[39:38.780 --> 39:42.140]  I mean, drug dealers, you know, turning a hose on them is the kind of thing they remember.
[39:43.900 --> 39:48.320]  It just shows you the kind of value that he has in certain things.
[39:48.600 --> 40:02.880]  He has been actively volunteering the majority of his time over the past five years in activities ranging from distributing fruits and vegetables to feed the poor and homeless through food not bombs, providing a safe haven for disadvantaged youths in West Philadelphia through the Pantra's Children's Garden,
[40:03.160 --> 40:09.780]  promoting AIDS education and outreach through the Youth Health Empowerment Project to at-risk youths in the Philadelphia community.
[40:09.780 --> 40:20.400]  At the age of 15, Terence, upon hearing about the plight of the homeless in Atlanta during the Olympics, hopped on a Greyhound bus after organizing a food drive and went and established a food kitchen to assist these people.
[40:21.080 --> 40:25.840]  I am always pleased when I have lunch with Terence every week at the people waving and saying hello when they see him.
[40:26.080 --> 40:29.840]  They range from local business owners to business people and the occasional homeless person.
[40:30.060 --> 40:33.540]  It does not matter if we are in Chinatown, West Philadelphia or Center City.
[40:33.540 --> 40:41.880]  My goal as a parent is to instill in each of my children the drive toward independence, free thinking, as well as valuing social responsibility.
[40:42.420 --> 40:45.360]  My son Terence has not disappointed me nor the City of Philadelphia.
[40:45.660 --> 40:48.360]  He is an impassioned voice speaking out on social injustice.
[40:48.720 --> 40:52.480]  Terence has never performed or condoned any sort of violence or property destruction.
[40:52.480 --> 40:58.120]  He always stands behind his commitments and is not a flight risk but is deeply tied to his family and community in Philadelphia.
[40:58.720 --> 41:06.180]  Please show your support for Terence by contacting the local leaders of Philadelphia and a district attorney to express your concern at the inappropriate level of bail being required.
[41:06.580 --> 41:09.220]  And please forward this message to anyone who will also write on his behalf.
[41:09.300 --> 41:17.360]  I am going to give out the addresses too because it is not over yet even though his bail was reduced to $100,000 and we were able to raise the $10,000 to get him out.
[41:17.780 --> 41:19.700]  And we will have an update on that in just a moment.
[41:19.700 --> 41:23.940]  Here are the addresses and email addresses as well.
[41:24.260 --> 41:31.100]  Philadelphia Mayor's Office, 1600 Arch Street, 4th Floor, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, 19103.
[41:33.160 --> 41:37.700]  Actually, the address that they have is webmaster at phila.gov.
[41:38.360 --> 41:40.600]  I am not sure if that will get to the mayor but it is a good shot.
[41:41.200 --> 41:45.720]  Also, Philadelphia City Hall, Broad and Market Street, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, 19107.
[41:45.820 --> 41:49.160]  Phone number 215-686-1776.
[41:49.160 --> 41:51.820]  And Tom Ridge, Governor of Pennsylvania.
[41:51.980 --> 41:52.620]  Yeah, good luck there.
[41:53.380 --> 41:57.160]  225-Main-Capital, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, 17120.
[41:57.880 --> 42:01.200]  Telephone number 717-787-2500.
[42:01.200 --> 42:03.880]  Email governor at state.pa.us.
[42:03.980 --> 42:08.600]  Now, Bernie, update us on what's happened since the hearing.
[42:10.360 --> 42:10.960]  Bernie?
[42:12.140 --> 42:12.760]  Uh-oh.
[42:12.980 --> 42:13.640]  Seems to be gone.
[42:13.640 --> 42:15.340]  Well, that doesn't mean nothing has happened.
[42:16.100 --> 42:16.820]  They got him.
[42:17.060 --> 42:17.740]  I don't know.
[42:17.940 --> 42:19.520]  Well, no, I think maybe Sprint PCS.
[42:19.760 --> 42:20.680]  Oh, Sprint got him.
[42:20.760 --> 42:20.920]  Yeah.
[42:21.540 --> 42:23.180]  I'll have to reestablish the connection.
[42:23.300 --> 42:32.940]  But basically, what happened at the hearing was the bail was reduced to $100,000, which meant that if we came up with $10,000, we could get him out.
[42:32.940 --> 42:36.720]  And fortunately, we had anticipated that, and we had that amount of money.
[42:36.820 --> 42:47.500]  But the interesting thing about this, and the rather ironic thing about this, the number $10,000 is a magic number when you deal with money.
[42:47.940 --> 42:53.420]  When you make a cash transaction of $10,000 or more, the IRS needs to be told.
[42:53.620 --> 42:53.860]  Yes.
[42:53.860 --> 43:02.840]  Because of the whole war on drugs thing, they think that if you have that much money, you must be a drug dealer, so you have to fill out certain forms just to indicate that they get the right amount of tax on the drugs or something.
[43:02.960 --> 43:03.240]  I don't know.
[43:03.520 --> 43:05.720]  But the point is, it was $10,000.
[43:05.820 --> 43:17.640]  If the judge had actually done this properly because she thought that she was doing the same thing that she did yesterday when she reduced someone else's bail to $100,000, but actually that person's bail had been a million dollars.
[43:17.780 --> 43:21.240]  So if she had done the same thing with Terrence, his bail would have been $50,000.
[43:21.360 --> 43:22.620]  So it was reduced tenfold.
[43:23.120 --> 43:27.420]  But that seemed to float right by her, and I don't think anybody was in the mood to correct her.
[43:29.460 --> 43:33.220]  So basically what that meant was, certain forms had to be filled out.
[43:33.280 --> 43:34.960]  Now here's where the bureaucratic nightmare starts.
[43:35.520 --> 43:38.420]  They needed a social security card.
[43:38.820 --> 43:39.480]  No, no.
[43:39.620 --> 43:40.780]  Not a social security number.
[43:40.820 --> 43:42.440]  They wanted a card.
[43:42.700 --> 43:44.120]  And they were adamant about this.
[43:44.220 --> 43:45.900]  No, we can't do anything without a card.
[43:45.980 --> 43:48.420]  Now, does anybody here have a social security card on them?
[43:48.580 --> 43:49.980]  I lost mine years ago.
[43:50.220 --> 43:50.500]  I don't keep mine on me.
[43:50.620 --> 43:50.640]  It's a safe deposit box.
[43:50.640 --> 43:51.580]  I haven't seen mine in 20 years.
[43:52.300 --> 43:53.860]  Why are you keeping it in a safe deposit box?
[43:53.920 --> 43:54.960]  It's a piece of paper.
[43:54.960 --> 43:58.360]  That's the same reason I keep my birth certificate in a safe deposit box.
[43:58.380 --> 43:59.540]  I haven't seen that in years either.
[44:00.400 --> 44:02.340]  But in any event, nobody had one.
[44:03.140 --> 44:10.220]  So Terrence's parents had to drive all the way home, which is at least an hour away, to get a social security card, which hopefully they knew where it was.
[44:10.240 --> 44:10.760]  I think they did.
[44:10.840 --> 44:11.820]  And then drive all the way back.
[44:12.860 --> 44:14.560]  It's nonsensical and a bureaucratic nightmare.
[44:14.560 --> 44:16.160]  And I think the bureaucratic nightmare is continuing.
[44:16.340 --> 44:18.240]  We're going to try and call Bernie back.
[44:19.500 --> 44:20.940]  Let's delve into another topic.
[44:20.960 --> 44:22.060]  And let's also give out the phone number.
[44:22.160 --> 44:23.200]  I see there's two calls on the line.
[44:23.260 --> 44:26.720]  And I want to commend those people in particular for calling while we're talking.
[44:27.060 --> 44:28.460]  That's something that you can always do.
[44:28.540 --> 44:29.760]  The volunteers are there all the time.
[44:29.860 --> 44:31.660]  212-209-2950.
[44:31.960 --> 44:32.520]  Don't worry.
[44:32.580 --> 44:33.580]  You won't miss the program.
[44:33.580 --> 44:34.820]  We keep repeating ourselves anyway.
[44:35.180 --> 44:37.840]  But even if we didn't do that, the programs all get archived.
[44:37.880 --> 44:41.060]  And we'll certainly keep going over what we're talking about.
[44:41.200 --> 44:41.900]  You have two ears.
[44:42.120 --> 44:43.800]  One goes to the phone, the other goes to the radio.
[44:43.800 --> 44:44.200]  That's right.
[44:44.360 --> 44:44.660]  Absolutely.
[44:45.400 --> 44:49.360]  But the important thing is, show your support so that we can continue to bring you stories like this.
[44:49.400 --> 44:54.480]  This has been an unbelievable week because this just hit me totally by surprise.
[44:54.720 --> 44:56.080]  I mean, I went down there last Tuesday.
[44:56.220 --> 44:58.140]  I talked to Terrence a couple of times on the phone.
[44:58.380 --> 44:59.720]  And we never hooked up.
[44:59.780 --> 45:03.940]  And I regret not doing that because I would have liked to have seen firsthand what he was involved in.
[45:04.760 --> 45:07.800]  But when I've seen him involved in things in the past, it's always been good.
[45:08.580 --> 45:09.920]  It's always been fulfilling.
[45:10.680 --> 45:14.760]  And I think I've never had a time with him where I didn't learn something.
[45:14.900 --> 45:17.580]  And he's always willing to teach.
[45:18.040 --> 45:22.200]  Now, Isaac, I know you're probably as far away from him politically as is possible to get.
[45:22.200 --> 45:22.500]  No.
[45:23.940 --> 45:25.500]  He has a hell of a lot of energy.
[45:25.680 --> 45:25.800]  Yeah.
[45:26.760 --> 45:27.900]  He's a good guy.
[45:28.120 --> 45:28.260]  Yeah.
[45:28.480 --> 45:41.880]  I mean, the thing is, despite your differences, and I thought about this on my three trips down to Philadelphia, people pushing, shoving, people getting in my way, people just, you know, forcibly trying to get someplace really fast.
[45:42.540 --> 45:47.920]  It's really crowded and offensive and nasty to just be in a crowd of people.
[45:48.460 --> 45:57.620]  With Terrence, I've never gotten that feeling from him where he's in any way aggressive or making his viewpoint dominate over somebody else's.
[45:57.800 --> 46:01.140]  And I think that you, having disagreed with him on just about everything under the sun...
[46:01.140 --> 46:01.680]  Well, not everything.
[46:02.500 --> 46:03.180]  I don't know.
[46:03.240 --> 46:03.700]  Was there anything?
[46:03.920 --> 46:04.140]  No.
[46:04.420 --> 46:07.840]  We agree on certain issues so far as liberty.
[46:09.300 --> 46:09.900]  That's right.
[46:09.900 --> 46:10.160]  Yes.
[46:10.860 --> 46:11.680]  That's what it was.
[46:11.900 --> 46:12.820]  I knew there was one thing.
[46:12.920 --> 46:13.460]  That's a big...
[46:13.460 --> 46:18.340]  But in any event, you know, even people who disagree, and I think that's how you really measure somebody.
[46:18.340 --> 46:20.440]  How do they deal with people they disagree with?
[46:20.940 --> 46:22.380]  You know, do they treat them with respect?
[46:22.840 --> 46:24.440]  Or do they just ignore them?
[46:24.520 --> 46:25.180]  Do they turn off to them?
[46:25.240 --> 46:26.340]  Do they try to out-shout them?
[46:26.520 --> 46:28.080]  And Terrence was not somebody like that.
[46:28.240 --> 46:29.460]  He still is not like someone.
[46:29.580 --> 46:30.880]  I'm not speaking of them in the past like that.
[46:30.880 --> 46:42.080]  But, you know, as somebody who was into this activism, he basically would spend a lot of time talking to people and trying to get them to understand his point of view.
[46:42.240 --> 46:43.440]  He really puts his heart into it.
[46:43.680 --> 46:44.080]  Absolutely.
[46:44.300 --> 46:45.280]  And he's only 19.
[46:45.280 --> 46:46.860]  And I think that's so commendable.
[46:47.260 --> 46:50.820]  I've seen that so many times at the 2600 meetings and at H2K.
[46:51.340 --> 46:52.940]  Young people really getting into things.
[46:53.000 --> 46:56.720]  I think a lot of people came out for the Kevin Mitnick thing over the past few years.
[46:57.160 --> 47:02.940]  And it really woke up a lot of individuals, made them realize how important the voice is no matter what the age.
[47:05.720 --> 47:10.420]  So, basically, Bernie right now is down at the prison where they're trying to get him released.
[47:10.500 --> 47:11.780]  I'm going to call him right back.
[47:11.940 --> 47:12.180]  Mm-hmm.
[47:12.400 --> 47:16.800]  Now, we have another story that we want to focus on for at least a few minutes.
[47:16.900 --> 47:17.880]  212-209-2950.
[47:18.500 --> 47:19.840]  Thanks for those three calls on the line.
[47:21.780 --> 47:23.580]  Hopefully, we have more than 320 bucks.
[47:24.340 --> 47:25.120]  Is that what it's...
[47:25.120 --> 47:25.900]  I can't read them all.
[47:25.900 --> 47:27.220]  Yeah, it's like all the way over there.
[47:27.380 --> 47:28.980]  But sometimes it takes them a while to add up.
[47:29.100 --> 47:29.480]  That's true.
[47:29.620 --> 47:30.940]  Let's get over 1,000, folks.
[47:31.160 --> 47:34.120]  Because otherwise, the expert witness guy is never going to let me live that one down.
[47:34.220 --> 47:34.580]  That's true.
[47:35.060 --> 47:36.280]  Well, Mike's a good guy, too.
[47:36.520 --> 47:37.340]  There's a fourth call.
[47:37.500 --> 47:37.660]  Okay.
[47:37.800 --> 47:40.220]  We're going to need a few more if we're going to get above the 1,000 mark.
[47:40.360 --> 47:40.640]  212.
[47:40.700 --> 47:41.540]  That's the fifth call.
[47:41.680 --> 47:42.200]  All right, all right.
[47:42.520 --> 47:44.820]  Could it be, with two more calls, we'll go into the second column.
[47:44.940 --> 47:45.720]  I've never seen that actually.
[47:45.740 --> 47:46.380]  That'd be kind of fun.
[47:46.480 --> 47:46.580]  Yeah.
[47:46.760 --> 47:48.100]  212-209-2950.
[47:48.160 --> 47:49.300]  Does it go down or across?
[47:49.900 --> 47:50.740]  It goes down.
[47:51.160 --> 47:51.880]  We'll find out.
[47:51.960 --> 47:53.180]  Somebody call it and then back up.
[47:55.900 --> 47:58.340]  The second story, and that is the Verizon story.
[47:58.620 --> 47:59.980]  Yeah, it's pretty interesting, actually.
[48:00.300 --> 48:00.460]  Right.
[48:00.460 --> 48:01.580]  You know what's interesting about this?
[48:01.700 --> 48:05.560]  Is that Verizon's on strike, and many people still don't know what Verizon is.
[48:05.820 --> 48:06.000]  Yeah.
[48:06.240 --> 48:12.580]  They only came into existence officially a week ago, because that was when the whole campaign to recognize what Verizon is started.
[48:12.860 --> 48:13.980]  And now they're on strike immediately.
[48:14.120 --> 48:17.000]  Well, the store downstairs on the corner is still Bell Atlantic Mobile.
[48:17.160 --> 48:18.280]  All the pay for it still say Bell.
[48:18.280 --> 48:18.340]  Yeah.
[48:18.340 --> 48:20.520]  They're putting banners up over the signs.
[48:20.520 --> 48:21.260]  Yeah, I saw one of them.
[48:21.380 --> 48:22.900]  It's a professional little Verizon nameplate.
[48:23.940 --> 48:23.960]  It's kind of silly.
[48:23.960 --> 48:27.820]  I don't think they'd be so eager to advertise the name now, because everybody just thinks of a strike, you know?
[48:27.980 --> 48:28.060]  Oh, absolutely.
[48:28.060 --> 48:35.240]  Yeah, well, it's a pretty sad commentary on the entire company, which has been around since May, Verizon Wireless.
[48:35.460 --> 48:43.980]  And Verizon, which is the product of the merger of GT and Bell Atlantic, which started its national recognition campaign, as Manuel just said, last week.
[48:43.980 --> 48:46.800]  That's when the operators started answering the phones, Verizon.
[48:47.480 --> 48:59.000]  Well, 87,000 of their workers went on strike Saturday night, a little after 12, because negotiations were still going on, from Maine down to Virginia, including the District of Columbia.
[48:59.280 --> 49:01.480]  I think that's pretty powerful.
[49:01.980 --> 49:06.180]  And I don't know if people know it, but I really hate Verizon myself.
[49:06.180 --> 49:10.120]  And since May, I've been running a site called VerizonEatsPoop.com.
[49:10.500 --> 49:26.780]  So I knew where a couple of the local union guys were striking yesterday, and I made up a flyer for VerizonEatsPoop.com, and I went down there with a friend of mine, and we pulled up, beeping the horn, and we said to him, hey, we run a website called VerizonEatsPoop.com,
[49:26.780 --> 49:28.360]  and it's an anti-Verizon site.
[49:28.660 --> 49:29.500]  And they loved it.
[49:29.600 --> 49:30.340]  They really ate it up.
[49:30.860 --> 49:31.360]  I mean, they...
[49:31.360 --> 49:36.780]  For the first time, I think, hackers and telephone company employees really saw eye to eye.
[49:37.380 --> 49:38.540]  We had a common enemy.
[49:38.740 --> 49:39.320]  It was Verizon.
[49:40.580 --> 49:41.600]  And they loved it.
[49:41.660 --> 49:42.800]  They were talking to me about it.
[49:42.840 --> 49:44.280]  They wanted to know why I started it.
[49:44.300 --> 49:47.600]  I told them how they threatened you, Emmanuel, with the...
[49:47.600 --> 49:50.140]  This, by the way, is Bernie S.'s phone, which...
[49:50.140 --> 49:50.680]  Oh, is he?
[49:50.740 --> 49:51.200]  Oh, there he is.
[49:51.400 --> 49:52.000]  Bernie, are you there?
[49:52.540 --> 49:53.100]  I'm here.
[49:53.260 --> 49:54.500]  We've been trying to call you for a while now.
[49:54.960 --> 49:56.900]  Well, you can thank Scrim PCS for that.
[49:57.020 --> 49:58.140]  I will thank Scrim PCS for that.
[49:58.160 --> 50:00.900]  We got cut off, I think, by the wonderful WBAI phone system.
[50:00.920 --> 50:05.440]  But I have not had my phone, Scrim PCS phone ring for quite a while.
[50:05.580 --> 50:05.800]  Okay.
[50:05.980 --> 50:09.380]  Well, Alice is finishing the Verizon story right now.
[50:09.580 --> 50:11.160]  And we're going to go to you in just a second.
[50:12.040 --> 50:12.760]  But basically...
[50:12.760 --> 50:13.800]  Yeah, they were striking.
[50:13.940 --> 50:14.580]  We went down there.
[50:14.680 --> 50:16.240]  They received us really, really well.
[50:16.340 --> 50:18.780]  They wanted to know more about VerizonEatsPoop.com.
[50:19.120 --> 50:20.300]  We were listening to them.
[50:20.400 --> 50:24.720]  And they actually directed us down to their local union hall, the CWA 1108.
[50:25.360 --> 50:31.120]  By the way, I should point out, CWA is going to be having a massive rally at Bryan Park Thursday at 10 a.m.
[50:31.220 --> 50:31.320]  Great.
[50:31.560 --> 50:32.660]  In support of the Verizon people.
[50:32.980 --> 50:33.100]  Absolutely.
[50:33.260 --> 50:34.900]  These were really nice people.
[50:35.000 --> 50:41.640]  We walked in there and we said, Hey, look, we run an anti-Verizon website.
[50:41.800 --> 50:42.620]  And I said, Oh, that's great.
[50:42.940 --> 50:45.740]  And the webmaster of their site happened to be there.
[50:45.760 --> 50:46.660]  So he pulled it right up.
[50:46.760 --> 50:47.920]  He said, I think this is wonderful.
[50:47.920 --> 50:51.960]  Give me the address of that website because I want to point VerizonReallySucks.com over to that.
[50:52.060 --> 50:55.000]  They already pointed their website to VerizonEatsPoop.com.
[50:55.000 --> 50:55.180]  Okay.
[50:55.180 --> 50:58.140]  I guess I'll be pointing over to you in the regular then.
[50:58.280 --> 50:58.320]  Yeah.
[50:58.320 --> 51:05.320]  Well, the local website, rather the local chapter CWA that I went to yesterday, they received me really, really well.
[51:05.860 --> 51:12.020]  The address is CWA1108.org, CWA1108.org.
[51:12.680 --> 51:16.660]  There's a link to VerizonEatsPoop from there and they even have a neat little flash intro.
[51:17.520 --> 51:18.740]  212-209-2950.
[51:18.880 --> 51:19.860]  Please show your support.
[51:19.980 --> 51:24.480]  A pledge of $75 gets you either a shirt, a cap, a mug, or a tote bag.
[51:24.480 --> 51:26.600]  A pledge of $125 gets you all of them.
[51:27.200 --> 51:27.560]  Oh, no, wait.
[51:27.660 --> 51:28.320]  It gets you three of them.
[51:28.640 --> 51:29.660]  No, you don't get the mug.
[51:29.860 --> 51:30.060]  Okay.
[51:30.300 --> 51:32.780]  Well, maybe you can negotiate and get a mug instead of a tote bag.
[51:32.800 --> 51:33.360]  You can swap out, perhaps.
[51:33.360 --> 51:34.200]  I have a thing about tote bags.
[51:34.320 --> 51:34.960]  I've always hated them.
[51:35.180 --> 51:38.100]  Bernie, now we got to the point where we said that you were at the prison.
[51:38.160 --> 51:39.280]  You want to update us on what's going on?
[51:39.440 --> 51:41.200]  Well, I'm actually not at the prison.
[51:41.200 --> 51:42.140]  No, I was earlier.
[51:42.320 --> 51:42.500]  Okay.
[51:42.540 --> 51:47.360]  And only one person was permitted to actually go into the prison.
[51:47.780 --> 51:51.260]  I was up there with Carolyn's mother and...
[51:51.260 --> 51:52.620]  I think you mean Terrence's mother.
[51:52.960 --> 51:55.700]  ...and a friend, a mutual friend named Amy.
[51:55.980 --> 51:56.740]  Four of us were up there.
[51:56.900 --> 52:01.100]  But the guards only let one person into the facility with his release papers.
[52:01.900 --> 52:02.860]  So, uh...
[52:02.860 --> 52:05.320]  Brings back memories of that old prison bureaucracy, doesn't it?
[52:05.780 --> 52:06.320]  Oh, yeah.
[52:06.320 --> 52:06.400]  Yeah.
[52:07.840 --> 52:09.040]  So, uh...
[52:09.040 --> 52:12.100]  This was about two hours ago.
[52:12.560 --> 52:13.920]  A good two hours ago.
[52:14.280 --> 52:27.640]  Even though it was technically bailed out, the bail money, which came through various friends, was forked over this afternoon after much confusion, which you were present for.
[52:27.780 --> 52:28.160]  Isn't that true?
[52:29.100 --> 52:30.980]  I was there for some of the confusion, yes.
[52:31.140 --> 52:34.920]  Yeah, the confusion with a passport was not considered good enough identification.
[52:35.420 --> 52:38.440]  Yeah, they wanted a social security card, nothing, nothing else.
[52:38.540 --> 52:39.800]  Yeah, we went through that whole story.
[52:40.020 --> 52:43.760]  Basically, right now Terrence is in the prison still, and we're trying to get him out.
[52:43.880 --> 52:44.540]  Is that what...
[52:44.540 --> 52:44.940]  Yeah, that's right.
[52:45.080 --> 52:59.220]  We've been up there for hours, and finally Terrence's mother called from the cell phone, her cell phone, saying, you might as well just go drive around and get something to eat, because it's going to be two or three, maybe more hours until this is all taken care of.
[52:59.520 --> 53:06.900]  So we went to a local Mexican restaurant to get something to eat because we were starving, and we're heading back there now, or shortly, we'll be heading back there.
[53:08.460 --> 53:25.060]  And we just got a call from Terrence's mother, I cell phone a few minutes ago, and she said that she's sitting there in the room watching someone just process paperwork, and the guards are saying, well, Terrence has to sign some paperwork before he can be released.
[53:25.260 --> 53:31.200]  Not mentioning that Terrence has to sign paperwork that we haven't given him yet to sign, sort of thing.
[53:31.320 --> 53:31.720]  Unbelievable.
[53:32.240 --> 53:33.120]  So we're still waiting.
[53:33.560 --> 53:41.780]  I had predicted the bail amount accurately to be reduced to $100,000, but I had also inaccurately predicted he'd be out before sundown.
[53:42.140 --> 53:47.100]  The sun has set, but I certainly believe he'll be out this evening sometime, so we're waiting.
[53:47.400 --> 53:48.220]  I sure hope so.
[53:48.220 --> 53:49.560]  He'll be out before sun-up.
[53:49.740 --> 53:49.940]  Yeah.
[53:50.760 --> 53:55.060]  And do call me as soon as you hear something because I really want to hear his voice.
[53:55.200 --> 53:56.760]  I'm hoping we'll still be on the air, but I doubt it.
[53:56.940 --> 54:02.720]  Well, we only have a couple minutes left, it'll be a real miracle, but we'll definitely have something next week on this.
[54:02.860 --> 54:05.680]  And, of course, on the website as well we'll have an update as soon as we know something.
[54:06.020 --> 54:08.940]  I'm also told that at 5 p.m.
[54:09.460 --> 54:17.300]  tomorrow, the 9th of August, there'll be a demonstration in Times Square solidarity with the people in prison in Philadelphia.
[54:17.300 --> 54:18.780]  That's 5 p.m.
[54:19.160 --> 54:20.700]  tomorrow at Times Square.
[54:20.700 --> 54:30.240]  There's a national press conference here in Philadelphia tomorrow, and people can find out more about that on the independent media site, phillyimc.org.
[54:30.240 --> 54:30.800]  Yeah.
[54:31.040 --> 54:32.640]  That is one incredible site.
[54:32.900 --> 54:33.760]  Oh, great.
[54:33.860 --> 54:37.880]  I've been watching that site almost nonstop ever since this started.
[54:38.020 --> 54:41.220]  Independent media is just serving such an incredible need.
[54:41.360 --> 54:45.560]  And the same thing, I imagine, will be happening in Los Angeles as well.
[54:45.580 --> 54:47.200]  I don't have the exact website for that.
[54:49.220 --> 54:50.180]  Are you done beeping?
[54:50.900 --> 54:51.580]  Is that me?
[54:51.640 --> 54:51.960]  I'm sorry.
[54:52.200 --> 54:52.580]  That was you.
[54:52.680 --> 54:53.780]  All right.
[54:54.740 --> 54:55.760]  A brief message?
[54:56.140 --> 54:56.440]  Yes.
[54:56.620 --> 55:01.360]  Whoever is going around and, like, cutting wires and pedestals...
[55:01.940 --> 55:04.600]  Have you seen these, like, wanted posters from Verizon?
[55:04.600 --> 55:07.700]  $50,000 for whoever turns in the guy...
[55:07.700 --> 55:08.280]  I've got to tell you something.
[55:08.280 --> 55:08.420]  What?
[55:08.560 --> 55:09.440]  I've got to tell you something.
[55:09.680 --> 55:10.620]  We're up to $785.
[55:10.800 --> 55:11.320]  That's great.
[55:11.440 --> 55:12.480]  Please keep those calls coming in.
[55:12.520 --> 55:14.960]  We want to break a thousand and we only have about three minutes to do it.
[55:14.960 --> 55:17.780]  Number is 209-2950.
[55:18.140 --> 55:18.220]  Yeah.
[55:18.380 --> 55:19.560]  212-209-2950.
[55:20.140 --> 55:22.160]  You know, I used to believe the things I read.
[55:22.440 --> 55:23.960]  And now I see something like this.
[55:23.960 --> 55:27.400]  I see where wires are being cut and, you know, vandals out there.
[55:27.500 --> 55:28.540]  There's a van that was set on fire.
[55:28.600 --> 55:29.200]  Van set on fire.
[55:29.700 --> 55:34.600]  You know, there's a part of me that doubts if it's even related to the people who are on strike.
[55:34.600 --> 55:38.960]  And it's just something to be set up so that there's a nice news story saying these people are vandals.
[55:39.560 --> 55:45.880]  You know, when you see the media get it so consistently wrong on other things, you start to spread that to everything.
[55:46.640 --> 55:48.880]  And, you know, maybe that's not a good thing to do.
[55:48.980 --> 55:50.100]  Maybe it's a healthy thing to do.
[55:50.180 --> 55:50.540]  I don't know.
[55:50.660 --> 55:53.600]  But you have to really take everything with a grain of salt.
[55:53.600 --> 55:55.880]  I encourage people to do that on this station as well.
[55:56.060 --> 55:57.580]  And, you know, don't just believe what we have to say.
[55:57.700 --> 55:58.060]  Go there.
[55:58.360 --> 55:59.200]  Find out for yourself.
[55:59.380 --> 56:00.140]  Become part of it.
[56:00.360 --> 56:05.060]  You don't realize how bad the mainstream media is until you're intimately familiar with a particular story.
[56:05.200 --> 56:06.620]  And then they cover that story.
[56:06.780 --> 56:06.940]  Yeah.
[56:07.080 --> 56:10.240]  And you realize, like, how far off they are.
[56:10.380 --> 56:11.240]  They're not even close.
[56:11.520 --> 56:14.760]  And then you begin to view everything else they cover with the same jaded eyes.
[56:14.960 --> 56:18.860]  Like, well, they were so completely off base with something that I happen to know a lot about.
[56:19.060 --> 56:19.200]  Right.
[56:19.380 --> 56:21.660]  How can I trust them to cover anything accurately?
[56:21.680 --> 56:22.720]  And I've talked with other people.
[56:22.720 --> 56:26.760]  You know, I've talked with other people that are in other fields that deal with the media.
[56:26.880 --> 56:28.260]  And I say, you know, did they get it right?
[56:28.380 --> 56:29.400]  And the answer is no.
[56:29.480 --> 56:30.460]  They got it totally wrong.
[56:30.460 --> 56:31.280]  They messed it up.
[56:31.320 --> 56:32.680]  They got the fundamental facts wrong.
[56:32.860 --> 56:35.380]  I was reading the New York Times about the new planets they found.
[56:35.420 --> 56:36.960]  They couldn't even get the number of planets right.
[56:37.140 --> 56:38.080]  One paper said ten.
[56:38.200 --> 56:38.800]  One said nine.
[56:38.900 --> 56:39.580]  Another said eight.
[56:39.580 --> 56:43.060]  I mean, if they can't get a number right, how can they get the facts right?
[56:44.160 --> 56:45.600]  It's just so totally unbelievable.
[56:45.880 --> 56:46.240]  So, yeah.
[56:46.380 --> 56:50.460]  Well, the point is, if it is happening, and the person who's doing it can hear me, stop.
[56:50.820 --> 56:55.240]  Whatever you're trying to do, it is not working, and it is having the exact opposite effect.
[56:55.240 --> 56:56.740]  Well, unless that's the effect they want.
[56:57.000 --> 56:57.340]  You know?
[56:57.340 --> 56:58.640]  You have to think of that.
[56:58.960 --> 57:00.520]  You don't know.
[57:00.600 --> 57:01.260]  You don't know for sure.
[57:01.340 --> 57:02.460]  But obviously, it's not a good thing.
[57:02.520 --> 57:03.840]  I think any idiot would know that.
[57:03.960 --> 57:04.260]  Yes.
[57:04.940 --> 57:06.400]  Well, there are plenty of idiots around us.
[57:06.400 --> 57:06.840]  When you do bad things like that.
[57:07.280 --> 57:07.600]  Exactly.
[57:08.020 --> 57:11.240]  Everybody that I saw there yesterday was really well behaved.
[57:11.380 --> 57:11.520]  Yes.
[57:11.520 --> 57:12.020]  In fact...
[57:12.020 --> 57:13.560]  Idiots don't listen to this radio station.
[57:13.740 --> 57:25.980]  I heard two people got arrested on Long Island yesterday, and then word came at the office where I was at, where a lot of workers were striking outside, and the foreman came over and he said to everybody, he said, all right, two guys just got arrested.
[57:26.260 --> 57:27.460]  We don't want to cause any trouble.
[57:27.580 --> 57:29.180]  Why don't we just pack it up and disperse?
[57:29.540 --> 57:33.100]  There were about six cops just watching us parade back and forth.
[57:34.120 --> 57:35.140]  And, you know, they're there.
[57:35.240 --> 57:35.960]  Nothing's going wrong.
[57:36.280 --> 57:37.320]  Nobody's being rude.
[57:37.620 --> 57:37.840]  Yeah.
[57:37.980 --> 57:39.320]  Everybody's being really, really civil.
[57:39.560 --> 57:39.800]  Mm-hmm.
[57:40.040 --> 57:43.220]  And as soon as there was a hint of trouble, everybody dispersed.
[57:43.560 --> 57:43.640]  Yeah.
[57:43.740 --> 57:44.720]  Didn't say a word.
[57:44.900 --> 57:45.540]  There was no yelling.
[57:45.660 --> 57:48.380]  Well, I don't know if that's good because you guys weren't doing anything wrong.
[57:48.480 --> 57:49.140]  I was responsible.
[57:49.140 --> 57:55.160]  There was nothing wrong, but just in case these cops got out of hand and didn't want to be on the front end of it.
[57:55.220 --> 57:55.380]  Yeah.
[57:55.560 --> 57:56.420]  It's a responsible thing to do.
[57:56.520 --> 57:57.580]  The responsible thing to do is what?
[57:57.680 --> 58:01.260]  Stop demonstrating because you're afraid you're going to get the stuffing beaten out of you?
[58:01.700 --> 58:02.020]  No.
[58:02.020 --> 58:04.420]  Is that responsible or is that just bowing into fear?
[58:05.280 --> 58:05.700]  You know?
[58:05.860 --> 58:06.780]  You have to ask yourself that.
[58:06.780 --> 58:09.260]  Well, I think, you know, I think they got the point across, though.
[58:09.340 --> 58:09.440]  Correct.
[58:09.720 --> 58:10.380]  Here's the thing.
[58:10.420 --> 58:14.460]  Here's the thing that I always think about in situations like this, like what's happening in Philadelphia.
[58:15.340 --> 58:26.680]  Have you ever put yourself in a position where you know you could be seriously hurt, where you know that you could risk your freedom, and it's just for something that you believe in strongly, something that you feel you should stand up for?
[58:27.080 --> 58:28.620]  Not very many people have done that.
[58:28.740 --> 58:30.280]  I'd say very few people have done that.
[58:30.420 --> 58:31.160]  I mean, this is...
[58:31.160 --> 58:36.700]  You talk about the kind of bravery that soldiers have, you know, when they go into war, not knowing if they're going to come out alive.
[58:36.780 --> 58:38.820]  And a lot of people don't even know why they do things like that.
[58:38.820 --> 58:45.680]  But I think in most cases, the people that do this, there might be some people that just go along for the fun of it, but there are a lot of people who really think it through.
[58:46.000 --> 58:54.680]  And I think we have to salute that particular type of courage, because especially among the young, because it's something that is rare these days.
[58:54.940 --> 59:05.560]  And rather than hold people on, you know, a million dollars bail, you know, we should be thanking them for waking us up and for, you know, for being there to care, because so few people care these days.
[59:06.840 --> 59:11.880]  Well, on that, let's appeal to people out there to care about us and call in.
[59:12.000 --> 59:13.680]  212-209-2950.
[59:13.900 --> 59:14.760]  I know what people are going to say.
[59:14.820 --> 59:16.280]  We didn't take any phone calls this week.
[59:16.420 --> 59:18.080]  Yeah, second time in three weeks.
[59:18.460 --> 59:22.440]  But you've got to admit, we had a lot to, you know, to cover this week.
[59:22.460 --> 59:24.700]  And we also have to raise some money to keep the place going.
[59:25.120 --> 59:30.940]  Please help us with that, and we'll take more phone calls next week, definitely.
[59:31.840 --> 59:33.420]  212-209-2950.
[59:33.640 --> 59:34.580]  Let's end on a bang.
[59:34.720 --> 59:36.020]  We have three calls on the line there.
[59:36.160 --> 59:40.280]  We have one minute left, and I should get moving.
[59:40.420 --> 59:40.800]  Yes, okay.
[59:41.200 --> 59:45.560]  The next show is glaring at me, so I'm going to play our theme music.
[59:45.720 --> 59:48.180]  Please call in now if you're going to call at all.
[59:48.320 --> 59:50.300]  212-209-2950.
[59:50.460 --> 59:51.560]  Or call any point tonight.
[59:51.820 --> 59:52.060]  Yes.
[59:53.120 --> 59:54.800]  212-209-2950.
[59:55.820 --> 59:56.600]  See you next week.
[59:56.760 --> 59:56.880]  Good night.
[59:56.880 --> 59:57.520]  Good night.
[59:57.700 --> 59:57.840]  Right.
[59:58.560 --> 01:00:00.300]  I cut myself while shaving.
[01:00:00.760 --> 01:00:02.800]  Now I can't make a call.
[01:00:03.700 --> 01:00:05.680]  It couldn't get much worse.
[01:00:06.280 --> 01:00:08.240]  But if they could, they would.
[01:00:08.540 --> 01:00:11.180]  Funding it bomb for the best, expect the worst.
[01:00:12.020 --> 01:00:13.720]  I hope that's understood.
[01:00:14.080 --> 01:00:14.740]  Funding it bomb!
[01:00:28.440 --> 01:00:29.980]  Now is the time.
[01:00:30.140 --> 01:00:36.380]  And now is the time for you to volunteer for the annual WBAI Summer Marathon.
[01:00:36.380 --> 01:00:41.940]  From Monday through Friday, August 11, between the hours of 6 a.m.
[01:00:42.040 --> 01:00:43.180]  and 11 p.m.
[01:00:43.300 --> 01:00:52.940]  So come on down and have breakfast with the Wake Up Call crew and stay to meet and greet other listeners and your favorite WBAI producers.
[01:00:53.340 --> 01:00:58.760]  That's beginning Monday through Friday, August 11, when we need you to volunteer.
[01:00:58.760 --> 01:01:03.760]  For more information, call 212-209-2828.
[01:01:04.680 --> 01:01:08.640]  That's 212-209-2828.
[01:01:09.140 --> 01:01:11.620]  Now is the time.
[01:01:19.770 --> 01:01:26.090]  It is 9 o'clock and you're tuned to WBAI 99.5 FM in New York.
[01:01:26.270 --> 01:01:27.950]  Stay tuned for Tahrir.
[01:01:28.170 --> 01:01:33.690]  Coming up next, it's your weekly Arab and Muslim magazine, hosted by Barbara Nimri-Aziz.