[00:02.400 --> 00:07.120]  You are tuned to non-commercial, listener-sponsored radio.
[00:07.420 --> 00:12.420]  For news, information, and entertainment, this is WBAI.
[00:12.660 --> 00:15.420]  99.5 FM in New York.
[00:27.650 --> 00:28.930]  Nut Bucket.
[00:29.010 --> 00:30.050]  Nut Bucket matinee.
[00:30.310 --> 00:32.070]  This is blues in the 90s.
[00:32.310 --> 00:33.470]  This is Tom Mitchelson.
[00:34.630 --> 00:38.250]  I want you to tune in for the Nut Bucket matinee.
[00:38.250 --> 00:38.830]  Yeah.
[00:39.630 --> 00:41.210]  And maybe we can all feel better.
[00:41.310 --> 00:42.090]  I'm just really good.
[00:43.410 --> 00:45.710]  I didn't even listen to blues or something.
[00:45.810 --> 00:46.650]  Something would make me feel better.
[00:46.650 --> 00:49.390]  Well, you got to pull yourself together long enough to let them know when to tune in.
[00:49.650 --> 00:51.810]  Hey, how about Saturdays?
[00:51.890 --> 00:52.430]  What time?
[00:53.230 --> 00:53.670]  Three.
[00:54.150 --> 00:54.610]  Uh-huh.
[00:55.230 --> 00:56.010]  To six.
[00:56.310 --> 00:56.650]  Oh.
[00:56.930 --> 00:58.230]  Blue, all up in there.
[00:58.330 --> 00:59.110]  Oh, good girl.
[00:59.150 --> 01:00.190]  Three, four, five.
[01:00.510 --> 01:01.890]  Then we got liquid sound.
[01:02.310 --> 01:03.310]  My own jazz six.
[01:03.510 --> 01:03.890]  Oh.
[01:04.230 --> 01:06.190]  That's only our 99.5.
[01:07.430 --> 01:07.870]  FM.
[01:08.250 --> 01:11.070]  Here in New York, WBAI.
[01:11.950 --> 01:13.790]  Gut Bucket matinee.
[01:14.530 --> 01:15.530]  The blues, man.
[01:16.030 --> 01:19.030]  If it don't kill you, it'll make you a mighty, mighty man.
[01:32.850 --> 01:36.570]  And you're listening to radio station WBAI in New York.
[01:36.870 --> 01:38.650]  It's 8 o'clock time for Off the Hook.
[01:44.570 --> 01:46.670]  The telephone keeps ringing.
[01:47.130 --> 01:49.190]  So I ripped it off the wall.
[01:50.070 --> 01:52.210]  I cut myself while shaving.
[01:52.770 --> 01:54.850]  Now I can't make a cough.
[02:00.580 --> 02:03.160]  Billy Bump, but the best it's paid for worst.
[02:03.760 --> 02:05.680]  I hope that's understood.
[02:06.100 --> 02:06.800]  But Billy Bump!
[04:16.330 --> 04:17.650]  And a good evening to everybody.
[04:17.690 --> 04:19.710]  This is Off the Hook.
[04:19.890 --> 04:20.850]  Emmanuel Goldstein here.
[04:21.390 --> 04:21.830]  Bernie S.
[04:21.910 --> 04:23.210]  Down there in Philadelphia.
[04:23.790 --> 04:24.890]  Down here in Philadelphia.
[04:25.250 --> 04:27.310]  And Isaac over who knows where.
[04:28.030 --> 04:30.410]  I'm over yonder performing some minor surgery.
[04:31.510 --> 04:33.570]  I just don't get it on the table again.
[04:34.370 --> 04:34.850]  All right.
[04:35.950 --> 04:37.390]  It's been a busy week, as always.
[04:37.850 --> 04:39.850]  You know, Bernie, I was in Philadelphia yesterday, only for a little while.
[04:39.970 --> 04:41.990]  I didn't say hi, because I was just there and gone.
[04:43.430 --> 04:45.250]  Well, thanks for the consideration.
[04:45.550 --> 04:45.970]  Well, yeah.
[04:46.910 --> 04:51.550]  That figure is probably more considered for me not to say something than to actually trouble you with my presence.
[04:51.770 --> 04:53.550]  But no, it was really a very quick thing.
[04:53.650 --> 04:56.370]  But, you know, when I was there, they still have helicopters hovering.
[04:56.570 --> 05:01.770]  I don't know if they're looking for stragglers from the RNC a few weeks ago, or if they got stuck up there.
[05:01.770 --> 05:02.250]  I don't know.
[05:02.950 --> 05:07.030]  So, you know, a few people locked up from that event, the Republican convention.
[05:07.270 --> 05:09.610]  I was told that they're all out.
[05:10.490 --> 05:17.150]  Well, there's a couple who were related, you know, related charges that are still there.
[05:17.270 --> 05:18.830]  I don't think everyone...
[05:18.830 --> 05:19.570]  Really?
[05:19.850 --> 05:22.870]  Those who are generally identified as protesters are there.
[05:22.990 --> 05:29.750]  But there were other people arrested during that same time frame for RNC-related activities, and I think they're still there.
[05:29.750 --> 05:39.610]  Well, I got to tell you, one of the most, I guess, I don't know, kind of interesting side notes to the whole RNC-DNC thing.
[05:39.690 --> 05:53.150]  You know, the mayor, your mayor, Mayor Street, I believe, he filed a complaint with the government of Los Angeles saying that one of his aides was arrested by Los Angeles police during the DMC.
[05:53.410 --> 05:53.550]  What?
[05:53.830 --> 05:54.110]  Yeah.
[05:54.710 --> 05:56.530]  Isn't that retributive justice?
[05:56.530 --> 05:57.390]  Have you ever heard it?
[05:57.490 --> 05:57.950]  It's amazing.
[05:58.490 --> 05:59.210]  He wasn't really arrested.
[05:59.230 --> 06:00.750]  He was just crossing the street.
[06:01.090 --> 06:03.110]  So they charged him with jaywalking.
[06:03.350 --> 06:04.990]  But they wouldn't let him...
[06:04.990 --> 06:07.770]  He just left the mayor's entourage.
[06:08.030 --> 06:08.270]  Uh-huh.
[06:08.450 --> 06:16.330]  And I guess it's probably worth noting that the mayor and his staff member who we're talking about are both African-American.
[06:16.610 --> 06:19.290]  Out of fairness to the Los Angeles Police Department, yeah, we should point that out.
[06:21.290 --> 06:27.030]  So, yeah, we can understand why, you know, they would feel, you know, endangered by black people crossing the street.
[06:28.090 --> 06:39.070]  So, uh, the gentleman was cited for jaywalking and asked for identification and was not able to provide it because it was in his car, which was within, you know, line of sight.
[06:39.070 --> 06:43.470]  And he said, well, I can go to my car and get my identification, but they wouldn't let him.
[06:43.490 --> 06:48.270]  And they detained him for over an hour, somewhere between an hour, an hour and a half.
[06:49.010 --> 06:56.650]  Uh, he was separated just by the, from the mayor's party by a few minutes who had gone shopping, sort of, whatever.
[06:57.030 --> 06:58.350]  In any case, uh...
[06:58.350 --> 07:02.210]  This is the exact same tactics they used in Philadelphia under that very mayor's orders.
[07:03.070 --> 07:03.650]  You know?
[07:04.010 --> 07:04.890]  It's very ironic.
[07:04.970 --> 07:05.850]  It's retributive justice.
[07:06.110 --> 07:08.990]  I mean, you know, I'd feel bad for the innocent person that was victimized.
[07:09.070 --> 07:13.150]  But, uh, if it lit a fire under, under, uh, Mayor's street, then, uh, maybe...
[07:13.150 --> 07:15.690]  So, Mayor's street's been, uh, been making a lot of noise about that here in Philadelphia.
[07:15.830 --> 07:16.230]  That's great.
[07:16.390 --> 07:18.270]  When it's, when it's people he cares about, it matters.
[07:18.410 --> 07:21.990]  When it's people that, uh, he doesn't know, you know, they can stay in jail for over a week.
[07:22.630 --> 07:22.910]  Oh, yeah.
[07:22.970 --> 07:24.150]  We gotta get tough with...
[07:24.150 --> 07:25.110]  I forgot to introduce Alex.
[07:25.410 --> 07:26.230]  Uh, how you doing, Alex?
[07:26.370 --> 07:26.630]  How you doing?
[07:26.630 --> 07:27.370]  Sorry on the other side of the room.
[07:28.250 --> 07:28.830]  Hey, Bernie.
[07:29.530 --> 07:30.190]  Hello, Alex.
[07:30.630 --> 07:37.710]  Uh, yeah, so anyway, I was in Philadelphia yesterday, and, um, I was, I was with a friend of mine, and I, I, I had occasion to ride the subways.
[07:37.710 --> 07:41.270]  And I'm only gonna take a moment on this, because this is kind of unrelated, but it's rather interesting.
[07:41.370 --> 07:41.850]  They have subways?
[07:41.970 --> 07:42.750]  Yeah, they have subways.
[07:43.010 --> 07:43.830]  They do, actually.
[07:44.090 --> 07:44.210]  Wow.
[07:44.210 --> 07:49.290]  They have subways, they have trolleys, they have electric buses, they've got little hovercraft, they got all kinds of things down there that we don't have.
[07:49.990 --> 07:59.930]  Uh, but what was, um, I, I, I was in, um, one of the, one of the stations, and I wanted to point out to my friend how ridiculous the system is, you know, compared to New York, where everything works perfectly.
[08:00.450 --> 08:03.390]  And I said, you know, watch this, and I, this is what I expected to have happen.
[08:03.450 --> 08:05.130]  I expected to come to one of these toll machines.
[08:05.130 --> 08:09.270]  They have these little, like, you know, kind of, uh, primitive machines, so you buy a token.
[08:09.570 --> 08:11.870]  Except you can't buy a token, you have to buy two tokens.
[08:12.790 --> 08:15.390]  Each ride is $1.15, so you have to put in $2.30.
[08:15.910 --> 08:18.270]  And, you know, it's very particular as to what kinds of coins it accepts.
[08:18.370 --> 08:21.290]  But that's the only way to buy a token, you have to buy two.
[08:21.630 --> 08:23.710]  And so that's what I was going to point out to my friend.
[08:23.710 --> 08:28.170]  I had no idea what I was getting into, because when I got there, I didn't find a little machine like that.
[08:28.270 --> 08:29.330]  Instead, I found a token booth.
[08:29.330 --> 08:33.110]  So I went to the token booth guy, and I said, hi, give me two tokens.
[08:34.270 --> 08:37.510]  And the first thing he said was, I don't sell tokens.
[08:38.990 --> 08:41.410]  I said, well, what are you doing here, then?
[08:41.410 --> 08:42.250]  You're in a token booth.
[08:42.390 --> 08:43.750]  The shack is labeled token booth?
[08:43.810 --> 08:48.110]  Yeah, except he pointed to the token booth across the hallway, which was closed.
[08:48.290 --> 08:49.490]  That's the one that sells tokens.
[08:49.950 --> 08:56.670]  He sells something else, and he wanted $3.20 to let me onto the subway.
[08:57.090 --> 09:03.270]  Even though it was the exact same thing, he was going to sell me some kind of weird transfer thing, but he wanted $3.20.
[09:03.490 --> 09:05.570]  So I said, okay, whatever, I just want to get home.
[09:05.650 --> 09:06.730]  So I handed the guy four bucks.
[09:06.950 --> 09:08.030]  I don't have any change.
[09:09.170 --> 09:11.990]  So what are you doing behind a token booth?
[09:11.990 --> 09:12.830]  You have no change.
[09:12.830 --> 09:13.770]  You don't sell tokens.
[09:13.970 --> 09:17.590]  Now, Bernie, explain this to us, please, because I don't understand it.
[09:17.790 --> 09:27.090]  Well, if you figure it out, it increases their profit margin significantly if they don't have to give change, not unlike a telephone company, Payphones, which never disperse change.
[09:27.230 --> 09:30.830]  Yeah, but who are these people behind the token booths that are not selling tokens?
[09:30.930 --> 09:31.890]  That's what I can't figure out.
[09:31.930 --> 09:39.830]  They are accepted employees, Southeast Pennsylvania Transit Authority employees, none of whom are trusted with handling money.
[09:39.830 --> 09:49.890]  You have to actually insert it into these special slots, and then they press a button so it goes down into the chute, and then they hand you whatever or let you through the turnstile.
[09:49.890 --> 09:51.530]  But they're not allowed to touch the money themselves.
[09:51.890 --> 09:52.250]  Unbelievable.
[09:53.150 --> 09:55.610]  That's why they can't give change, because they're not allowed to touch money.
[09:55.810 --> 09:58.290]  But what about the other token booth, the one that was closed?
[10:00.010 --> 10:01.130]  That was not...
[10:01.590 --> 10:08.850]  I have not seen any booths where you can both pay and buy tokens and go through the turnstile.
[10:08.950 --> 10:09.910]  It's one or the other.
[10:10.090 --> 10:11.090]  But you see, here's the thing.
[10:11.150 --> 10:13.890]  This guy didn't sell tokens even if I had the right amount of change.
[10:14.050 --> 10:17.190]  And I just wanted to get onto the subway, and then the subway takes tokens.
[10:17.550 --> 10:20.370]  Well, you could give him money, and he'd let you through.
[10:21.490 --> 10:26.590]  He wouldn't give you anything... he wouldn't give you any material object, like a token or a transpass.
[10:26.690 --> 10:28.030]  No, he wanted to give me a bus pass.
[10:28.850 --> 10:31.370]  Okay, he might give you something like that, but they don't...
[10:31.370 --> 10:33.070]  But I wasn't taking a bus, I was taking a tram.
[10:33.130 --> 10:39.090]  No, I have forgotten my transpass on occasion, and the $1.60 fare, and I wouldn't have change.
[10:39.090 --> 10:43.230]  I would just have to hand him $2, or worse, once I had to give him $5 to let me through.
[10:44.410 --> 10:45.750]  And they don't give you any change?
[10:46.190 --> 10:49.890]  Not even a little voucher stating that, you know, I am owed X with a...
[10:49.890 --> 10:53.350]  So this guy comes up out of nowhere saying, hey, listen, I can work this out.
[10:53.390 --> 10:58.510]  I've got change here, and if you buy me a pass, then we have exact change to give this guy for three passes.
[10:59.070 --> 11:03.410]  And he was just talking so fast, I think I probably paid like $20 for a subway ride, but I got out of there.
[11:03.770 --> 11:04.950]  And that's the important thing.
[11:05.510 --> 11:09.230]  But wow, I mean, you know, I will never complain about anything not working in this system.
[11:09.350 --> 11:12.050]  Again, that's the most totally absurd thing I've ever seen.
[11:12.050 --> 11:14.730]  I mean, just, you know, to get on the train, you figure, you know, I'll buy a token.
[11:14.910 --> 11:16.370]  Why not have the token machines there?
[11:16.410 --> 11:19.270]  No, that doesn't make any sense to put a token machine there to sell tokens.
[11:19.910 --> 11:20.430]  It's silly.
[11:20.670 --> 11:20.790]  Yeah.
[11:20.890 --> 11:27.910]  And then, you know, to make matters worse, when I was at the 30th Street Station, I noticed a sign for tokens that said something like, each rise is $1.50.
[11:28.030 --> 11:29.130]  It was a totally different price.
[11:30.130 --> 11:31.730]  And I didn't understand what that was about.
[11:31.790 --> 11:33.050]  I didn't even get involved at that point.
[11:33.110 --> 11:33.650]  It just kept going.
[11:34.470 --> 11:34.850]  All right.
[11:34.930 --> 11:45.530]  Speaking of things that don't make any sense, this was an amazing article in yesterday's New York Times, where you always find a very interesting article in the Times, if you read all the way through.
[11:45.790 --> 11:47.530]  And this was unbelievably telling.
[11:47.770 --> 11:52.950]  It has to do with the media and how the media distorts things and how the media just makes things up.
[11:53.070 --> 11:54.430]  Now, this is in the New York Times.
[11:54.670 --> 11:55.990]  Well, yeah, it is in the New York Times.
[11:55.990 --> 11:56.170]  Okay.
[11:56.250 --> 11:57.130]  So, you know, it could...
[11:57.130 --> 11:58.690]  But it's in a section called Media Talk.
[11:58.810 --> 12:02.090]  So you know that they're not going to, you know, be unfair about it.
[12:02.210 --> 12:03.890]  They're going to, you know, be totally neutral.
[12:04.070 --> 12:05.830]  We don't think they're owned by anybody, right?
[12:05.950 --> 12:07.890]  They're not owned by Time Warner or...
[12:07.890 --> 12:11.230]  To be honest, the New York Times is not owned by any other organization, right?
[12:11.310 --> 12:12.350]  Not even the LA Times.
[12:12.650 --> 12:13.130]  I don't know.
[12:13.250 --> 12:17.610]  They own that other radio station down a few megahertz that plays classical music.
[12:17.810 --> 12:19.830]  But, okay, but here's an interesting story.
[12:20.170 --> 12:30.130]  The last few months, the cable network MSNBC has placed two billboards on the West Side Highway to Manhattan that promote its main nighttime news program in this way.
[12:30.250 --> 12:31.050]  You may have seen this.
[12:31.230 --> 12:32.870]  The News with Brian Williams.
[12:33.050 --> 12:35.470]  Find out why 42 million people are watching.
[12:36.290 --> 12:36.550]  Right?
[12:37.150 --> 12:37.590]  Sure.
[12:37.890 --> 12:38.650]  42 million people.
[12:38.810 --> 12:40.010]  That's even bigger than our audience.
[12:40.330 --> 12:40.490]  Yeah.
[12:40.790 --> 12:41.250]  Pretty big.
[12:41.690 --> 12:42.550]  But maybe not.
[12:43.090 --> 12:49.170]  The sign features a photograph of Mr. Williams, who is considered to be among the heirs apparent to the NBC News anchor Tom Brokaw.
[12:49.270 --> 12:49.470]  Isn't it?
[12:49.550 --> 12:50.730]  It's like a monarchy.
[12:52.710 --> 12:55.350]  So when Tom Brokaw just finally keels over...
[12:55.350 --> 12:56.130]  Or is overthrown.
[12:56.270 --> 12:57.150]  Or is overthrown.
[12:57.430 --> 12:59.850]  Then, yeah, then Mr. Williams is looking to be his successor.
[13:00.770 --> 13:02.490]  He's looking confident and authoritative.
[13:02.730 --> 13:02.950]  He's wings of orange.
[13:03.410 --> 13:05.670]  Looking authoritative, which is how you want a news anchor to look.
[13:05.810 --> 13:06.530]  Not authoritarian.
[13:06.950 --> 13:07.770]  Oh, no, no, no.
[13:07.890 --> 13:08.490]  Authoritative, yeah.
[13:08.690 --> 13:08.770]  Very good.
[13:08.970 --> 13:11.270]  It tells viewers they can tune in weeknights at 9 p.m.
[13:11.330 --> 13:19.350]  But the billboard has struck executives at some of MSNBC's competitors as not only odd, but also a bit annoying because of the large ratings figure the signed votes.
[13:20.010 --> 13:21.350]  42 million people is a lot of people.
[13:21.350 --> 13:22.050]  That's pretty...
[13:22.050 --> 13:22.930]  That's like, you know, what?
[13:23.430 --> 13:24.990]  A tenth of the population of the country?
[13:26.290 --> 13:27.270]  Yeah, it's pretty much...
[13:27.270 --> 13:28.050]  It's a lot of people.
[13:28.370 --> 13:29.170]  Maybe more than that.
[13:29.210 --> 13:31.230]  All watching one newscast on a cable station.
[13:31.530 --> 13:31.990]  Let me guess.
[13:32.010 --> 13:32.590]  There was a typo?
[13:33.110 --> 13:33.990]  No, no typo.
[13:34.210 --> 13:34.310]  Oh.
[13:35.890 --> 13:41.350]  In the second quarter of this year, the most recent full quarter for which cable ratings are available, the 9 p.m.
[13:41.450 --> 13:45.290]  showing of the news with Brian Williams was actually watched by an average...
[13:45.290 --> 13:45.990]  Who wants to guess?
[13:47.150 --> 13:47.790]  Let me see.
[13:48.170 --> 13:48.570]  Seven.
[13:48.770 --> 13:49.330]  Seven million.
[13:49.430 --> 13:49.790]  Seven million.
[13:49.930 --> 13:50.130]  Isaac?
[13:50.450 --> 13:53.550]  I will go for in the hundreds of thousands.
[13:53.770 --> 13:54.890]  I won't even break a million.
[13:55.130 --> 13:55.350]  Really?
[13:55.670 --> 13:55.810]  Yeah.
[13:55.810 --> 13:56.250]  Give us a number.
[13:56.670 --> 13:57.370]  How about eight?
[13:58.090 --> 13:58.670]  Eight what?
[13:58.990 --> 13:59.610]  Hundred thousand.
[13:59.870 --> 14:00.650]  Eight hundred thousand people?
[14:00.830 --> 14:00.990]  Okay.
[14:01.150 --> 14:01.830]  Bernie, you have a guess?
[14:02.270 --> 14:02.910]  Two million.
[14:03.150 --> 14:03.550]  Two million.
[14:03.670 --> 14:03.850]  Okay.
[14:04.050 --> 14:05.290]  Is this a Price is Right kind of thing?
[14:05.810 --> 14:07.430]  Closest without going over, sort of?
[14:07.610 --> 14:08.130]  One person.
[14:08.130 --> 14:08.890]  Well, actually, Isaac, you are closest.
[14:08.890 --> 14:09.710]  One person, yeah.
[14:09.710 --> 14:10.190]  One person.
[14:10.570 --> 14:12.890]  Because the average is 203,000 people.
[14:13.090 --> 14:13.270]  Woo-hoo!
[14:13.490 --> 14:14.470]  No, we all went over.
[14:14.870 --> 14:15.650]  We all lose.
[14:15.770 --> 14:16.030]  But okay.
[14:16.130 --> 14:30.070]  It was in fourth place in its time period among the cable news networks behind CNN's Larry King Live with 936,000 people, CNBC's Rivera Live at 374,000, and Fox News Channel's Hannity and Combs with about 308,000.
[14:30.150 --> 14:31.210]  That's pretty low figures.
[14:31.430 --> 14:32.130]  They're all under a million.
[14:32.270 --> 14:33.410]  All cable networks are under a million.
[14:34.050 --> 14:42.610]  So how can MSNBC say the program is being watched by 42 million people when it's nightly audience is about one 20,500th of that?
[14:43.370 --> 14:44.350]  Well, guess what?
[14:44.530 --> 14:46.410]  They probably add it up every single night.
[14:47.030 --> 14:47.850]  You're half right.
[14:47.990 --> 14:48.430]  I'm half right.
[14:48.550 --> 14:53.330]  Thanks to some statistical ingenuity and vague language, which I guess you're a master of over there.
[14:53.490 --> 14:58.410]  The MSNBC number is basically correct, according to MSNBC executives.
[14:58.710 --> 14:59.730]  Here is the calculus.
[15:00.230 --> 15:08.090]  Mr. Williams' program, which runs Monday through Friday, is repeated four times a night, four times a night, after its initial 9 p.m.
[15:08.150 --> 15:08.350]  showing.
[15:08.430 --> 15:09.850]  You will watch this one way or another.
[15:10.030 --> 15:11.650]  At some point, you're going to see it.
[15:11.770 --> 15:15.710]  Twice on MSNBC and twice on CNBC, NBC's financial network.
[15:16.310 --> 15:25.670]  MSNBC executives said they arrived at the figure by taking the initial number of people who watched at least one minute of the program in any of its runs in April.
[15:26.290 --> 15:27.010]  In April.
[15:27.230 --> 15:36.590]  In other words, if while clicking through the channels in April, a viewer happened to pause for 60 seconds on Mr. Williams' program, she became one of the 42 million.
[15:36.970 --> 15:38.570]  That watched his program.
[15:38.750 --> 15:39.370]  Isn't that something?
[15:39.490 --> 15:39.730]  I see.
[15:39.970 --> 15:43.870]  That sort of method is not all that different from one used to determine audiences for websites.
[15:44.950 --> 15:45.630]  Very true.
[15:51.110 --> 15:54.950]  There are people watching a particular program from minute to minute and then produce an average viewership number.
[15:55.610 --> 16:08.250]  Executives at MSNBC said they thought their method for the billboard would better represent the real audience for Mr. Williams in the course of a night since they contend many of his viewers tune in briefly for information and then head elsewhere as quickly as they can.
[16:09.910 --> 16:10.310]  Unbelievable.
[16:11.070 --> 16:12.410]  So that's how it works.
[16:12.470 --> 16:13.970]  That's how advertising is figured out.
[16:14.070 --> 16:15.470]  That's how viewership is figured out.
[16:15.470 --> 16:23.170]  If you watch for one minute in a month, you become one of what appears to be the number of people watching a particular hour of news.
[16:23.990 --> 16:24.630]  200,000.
[16:25.090 --> 16:25.730]  200,000.
[16:25.830 --> 16:26.970]  I don't think I've ever watched it.
[16:27.110 --> 16:27.190]  Have you?
[16:27.770 --> 16:29.470]  I've stumbled upon it, but I've gotten...
[16:29.470 --> 16:30.490]  So you're part of it.
[16:30.610 --> 16:30.730]  Yeah.
[16:31.050 --> 16:32.450]  Well, I don't have cable, so I'm safe.
[16:32.870 --> 16:33.650]  No, you're not safe.
[16:33.850 --> 16:34.190]  I'm not safe?
[16:34.190 --> 16:36.730]  I'm sure you can be added up in that statistic somehow.
[16:36.850 --> 16:37.110]  Oh, no.
[16:37.390 --> 16:37.530]  Yeah.
[16:37.970 --> 16:39.790]  So now we have to calculate what our audience is.
[16:39.890 --> 16:41.150]  When they depose Tom Brokaw.
[16:41.210 --> 16:42.510]  How do we calculate what our audience is?
[16:42.510 --> 16:45.610]  Because we don't fill out any of these forms.
[16:46.190 --> 16:48.010]  I imagine a lot of people tune in for a minute.
[16:48.990 --> 16:52.450]  Of course, you have to count all those people that are just moving the dial from one end to the other.
[16:52.550 --> 16:53.930]  They have to pass us on the way.
[16:54.350 --> 16:54.990]  They count.
[16:55.110 --> 16:55.550]  They count, too.
[16:56.150 --> 16:57.990]  So we're probably up there in the tens of millions.
[16:58.410 --> 17:01.810]  Then you have the people who use that scan feature that just keep going all day long.
[17:02.030 --> 17:03.350]  You count them 12 times at least.
[17:03.350 --> 17:07.730]  All the people who listen to the show in the future, that listen to the back shows on the web.
[17:07.850 --> 17:08.410]  That's right.
[17:08.410 --> 17:08.850]  Because they're all there.
[17:08.850 --> 17:09.690]  We have an archive here.
[17:09.710 --> 17:10.710]  Our audience keeps going up.
[17:10.810 --> 17:11.270]  That's right.
[17:11.330 --> 17:11.830]  I like it.
[17:11.830 --> 17:13.250]  Yeah, and it covers all the generations.
[17:13.610 --> 17:15.070]  A hundred years from now, we'll never notice.
[17:15.090 --> 17:17.770]  We could drop off the air right now, and we will still be getting listeners.
[17:18.230 --> 17:19.190]  Who else can say that?
[17:19.250 --> 17:19.710]  That's not bad.
[17:19.850 --> 17:19.950]  Yeah.
[17:21.150 --> 17:21.510]  All right.
[17:22.010 --> 17:23.030]  Getting closer to home.
[17:23.470 --> 17:23.910]  Did you see this?
[17:24.050 --> 17:28.910]  I don't read USA Today, but this was actually a very good article that showed up in Friday's edition.
[17:30.590 --> 17:33.990]  And it touches upon a few things that we were doing at the website.
[17:34.110 --> 17:35.910]  Now, of course, there's no new updates on the lawsuit.
[17:36.090 --> 17:42.090]  We lost last week, and we're still waiting for the cost to be tabulated, which supposedly we're liable for.
[17:42.890 --> 17:44.150]  The court costs, not the...
[17:44.150 --> 17:44.790]  The court costs.
[17:44.950 --> 17:45.490]  The taxable costs.
[17:45.570 --> 17:46.130]  Whatever that is.
[17:46.210 --> 17:46.710]  Nobody knows.
[17:46.970 --> 17:50.010]  But we'll see what that's going to be probably in the next week or so.
[17:50.650 --> 17:57.930]  The appeal is still being worked on, and that will be filed within 30 days of the decision, which I believe was...
[17:58.750 --> 17:59.590]  Was it last Monday?
[17:59.730 --> 18:00.870]  Well, last Friday, that's what it was.
[18:00.930 --> 18:01.270]  Last Friday?
[18:01.470 --> 18:01.870]  Last Thursday.
[18:02.070 --> 18:02.970]  A week ago Thursday.
[18:03.110 --> 18:03.730]  A week ago Thursday.
[18:03.970 --> 18:05.250]  A week ago last Thursday, yeah.
[18:05.410 --> 18:05.590]  Okay.
[18:05.950 --> 18:12.790]  Anyway, if you run a website and a judge orders you not to link, in quotes, to another website, can you list the address of that site instead?
[18:13.390 --> 18:15.430]  Depends on what your definition of the word link is.
[18:15.530 --> 18:22.930]  To an online magazine at the heart of the movie industry's lawsuit against websites and programmers who have posted DVD copying software, there's a big difference.
[18:23.250 --> 18:24.950]  2600 News, which bills itself...
[18:24.950 --> 18:25.470]  How do you like that word?
[18:25.670 --> 18:25.870]  2600 News.
[18:25.910 --> 18:26.570]  2600 News.
[18:26.790 --> 18:36.330]  Which bills itself as the Hacker Quarterly was sued last year by the motion picture industry for posting on its website downloadable copies of DECSS, a program that lets people copy DVDs.
[18:37.230 --> 18:40.250]  Which is not really exactly right, but we'll let that go.
[18:40.750 --> 18:45.830]  In January, a federal judge issued a preliminary injunction barring the site from posting the DECSS program.
[18:46.470 --> 18:48.410]  Last week, he made that order permanent.
[18:48.530 --> 18:48.910]  Fair enough.
[18:49.050 --> 18:51.730]  But District Court Judge Louis Kaplan took an additional step.
[18:51.830 --> 18:57.570]  He ordered 2600 to remove links to other sites where copies of the DECSS program can be found.
[18:58.430 --> 19:00.150]  2600 complied, sort of.
[19:00.550 --> 19:13.670]  The site removed its hyperlinks to DECSS sites, but it left the addresses of the sites themselves up, meaning anyone who types one of the addresses into his web browser or simply copies the address and pastes it into their browser will still be transported directly to the site.
[19:16.690 --> 19:21.670]  Basically, the question is how Kaplan will receive 2600's interpretation of his order.
[19:22.130 --> 19:24.310]  The site acknowledges things may not go well.
[19:24.430 --> 19:27.050]  This could also change with another ill-advised ruling, in quotes.
[19:28.010 --> 19:29.170]  But it's worth taking.
[19:29.370 --> 19:35.690]  It's a risk worth taking, said John Gilmore, co-founder and board member of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, which has helped 2600 with its legal defense.
[19:36.050 --> 19:40.630]  It seems to me that as a publication, there's a First Amendment line there somewhere, Gilmore says.
[19:41.090 --> 19:43.790]  The judge has not made it clear where that line is.
[19:45.490 --> 19:53.390]  Eugene Volek, who teaches free speech and copyright law at UCLA's School of Law, said 2600's decision to push the envelope of Internet law could be risky.
[19:53.790 --> 19:55.730]  I can certainly see the judge getting upset.
[19:56.250 --> 19:58.590]  He may come down on them like a ton of bricks.
[19:59.710 --> 20:00.490]  Ton of bricks.
[20:02.110 --> 20:04.170]  Paul McMaster's First Amendment ombudsman.
[20:04.490 --> 20:06.190]  Anybody know what an ombudsman is?
[20:07.190 --> 20:09.270]  I've seen the word in print, but I have no clue.
[20:09.590 --> 20:12.110]  It really looks like a nice thing to be, but I'd like to...
[20:12.110 --> 20:14.350]  First Amendment ombudsman?
[20:14.410 --> 20:15.070]  What's an ombudsman?
[20:15.170 --> 20:15.770]  I have no idea.
[20:15.970 --> 20:16.250]  Spell it.
[20:17.230 --> 20:18.390]  It's spelled like it sounds.
[20:18.490 --> 20:20.070]  O-M-B-U-D-S-M-A-N.
[20:20.270 --> 20:21.510]  Bernie, do you know what an ombudsman is?
[20:21.510 --> 20:23.030]  Kind of like a spokesperson.
[20:23.330 --> 20:25.610]  I think a proponent of the First Amendment.
[20:25.990 --> 20:27.130]  Then I'm an ombudsman, too.
[20:27.430 --> 20:28.570]  An outspoken advocate.
[20:28.810 --> 20:30.550]  From this moment on, I'm an ombudsman.
[20:30.550 --> 20:31.510]  I think we're all ombudsmen, too.
[20:31.510 --> 20:32.690]  Unless you need some sort of certificate.
[20:32.970 --> 20:35.990]  Actually, who in their right mind would not be for the First Amendment?
[20:36.450 --> 20:38.810]  Oh, anybody in power, for one thing.
[20:38.890 --> 20:39.590]  How about Louis Free?
[20:39.910 --> 20:41.070]  Yeah, how about Louis Free?
[20:42.210 --> 20:44.750]  How about Janet Reno, Bill Clinton, George W.
[20:44.950 --> 20:46.290]  Bush, Al Gore?
[20:46.830 --> 20:47.590]  Should we go on?
[20:52.370 --> 20:55.270]  All the people voted for the DMCA, which is every member of Congress.
[20:57.450 --> 21:04.330]  The point I'm trying to make is that if you are against the First Amendment, you are trying to stifle free speech.
[21:04.330 --> 21:11.570]  So you can't exactly ombuds very much if you don't support the ability for ombudsment.
[21:13.450 --> 21:14.170]  Never mind.
[21:14.390 --> 21:15.390]  We'll take that up at a future date.
[21:15.410 --> 21:16.230]  Let's continue here.
[21:17.530 --> 21:27.030]  The First Amendment ombudsman at the Freedom Forum, Paul McMaster, says he hopes 2600's decision to stick to its guns will lead the judge to conclude that his ruling goes too far.
[21:27.330 --> 21:30.710]  The website is exploring the judge's decision, McMaster says.
[21:30.710 --> 21:33.410]  I think the move is a combination of courage and wishfulness.
[21:34.250 --> 21:35.050]  On whose part?
[21:35.230 --> 21:35.550]  Us.
[21:35.730 --> 21:36.130]  Oh, okay.
[21:36.270 --> 21:37.090]  It's a compliment.
[21:37.450 --> 21:38.010]  Oh, that's good.
[21:38.070 --> 21:39.470]  It's kind of a rare thing to see, you know?
[21:39.610 --> 21:41.650]  And there it is in USA Today.
[21:42.890 --> 21:44.530]  Kaplan could not be reached for comment.
[21:44.530 --> 21:45.830]  Do judges even comment?
[21:46.150 --> 21:47.370]  Have you ever seen a judge comment?
[21:47.590 --> 21:48.750]  Well, they issue opinions.
[21:49.370 --> 21:50.870]  Yeah, but not to the media, they don't.
[21:51.090 --> 21:51.930]  Well, they issue it to everyone.
[21:52.710 --> 21:57.290]  A spokeswoman for the Motion Picture Association of America declined comment.
[21:57.790 --> 21:58.130]  Mmm.
[22:00.150 --> 22:02.850]  Yep, so that's pretty much the gist of it.
[22:04.570 --> 22:09.690]  And that's really, they nailed it, because we do have to define just where that line is.
[22:09.910 --> 22:11.670]  Are we not allowed to talk about it anymore?
[22:11.670 --> 22:13.810]  Are we not allowed to even make reference to it?
[22:14.210 --> 22:15.990]  Where does this decision leave us?
[22:16.150 --> 22:17.270]  And where does it leave everybody else?
[22:17.470 --> 22:23.170]  You know, an interesting thing, Time Warner actually was linking to DECSS over the weekend.
[22:24.050 --> 22:25.070]  Bernie, did you see this?
[22:25.410 --> 22:26.230]  I did not.
[22:26.430 --> 22:34.470]  Well, it was basically a CNN story that was taken from a Linux World piece, but CNN takes other stories and puts it on their site.
[22:34.630 --> 22:37.870]  And at the bottom of this story was a link to DECSS.
[22:37.870 --> 22:39.330]  It was right there.
[22:39.710 --> 22:43.770]  Time Warner, one of the companies, suing us, linking to the thing they're suing us over.
[22:44.510 --> 22:45.850]  Maybe they're taking a stand.
[22:46.210 --> 22:47.670]  Yeah, you know, I was hoping that.
[22:47.830 --> 22:50.790]  And there was a big hue and cry raised about it.
[22:51.470 --> 22:53.990]  And without fanfare, the link just disappeared.
[22:54.010 --> 22:54.410]  Disappeared.
[22:54.490 --> 22:55.070]  Just disappeared.
[22:55.190 --> 22:55.570]  Who would have thought?
[22:55.650 --> 22:57.890]  Now, that raises a couple of issues right there.
[22:58.070 --> 23:01.190]  Because, well, first of all, the injunction is against us.
[23:01.830 --> 23:01.990]  Correct.
[23:01.990 --> 23:03.030]  That's really how it works.
[23:03.750 --> 23:06.530]  Nobody else is affected by this injunction except us.
[23:06.710 --> 23:08.630]  Well, you, your servants, and whatever else.
[23:09.070 --> 23:16.430]  I have a little bit about the injunction, which I was reading through the actual Digital Millennium Copyright Act on the way here.
[23:16.910 --> 23:24.970]  And there's a bit, I believe it's Section 1203 on civil remedies, where it talks about the kind of injunctions that the court can impose.
[23:25.510 --> 23:40.090]  It says, the court may grant temporary and permanent injunctions on such terms as it deems reasonable to prevent or restrain a violation, but in no event shall impose a prior restraint on free speech or the press protected under the First Amendment to the Constitution.
[23:40.470 --> 23:41.710]  So these things are there.
[23:42.010 --> 23:43.610]  I don't know why they're being ignored.
[23:43.910 --> 23:46.450]  There's a lot of good stuff in there that seems to be ignored.
[23:46.610 --> 23:47.410]  Completely ignored.
[23:47.610 --> 23:50.210]  Who has time to read the Constitution and all those documents?
[23:50.210 --> 23:51.030]  Well, this is the U.S.
[23:51.090 --> 23:51.370]  Code.
[23:51.570 --> 23:52.050]  I don't know.
[23:52.870 --> 23:54.270]  Well, in any event, maybe the U.S.
[23:54.510 --> 23:57.950]  Code is decrypted or encrypted these days, and maybe we're not allowed to decrypt it anymore.
[23:58.030 --> 23:58.350]  I don't know.
[23:58.530 --> 24:04.410]  But as I was saying, all right, the only people affected by this are us.
[24:04.570 --> 24:07.170]  We are not allowed to link to the ECSS.
[24:07.410 --> 24:08.890]  We are not allowed to post the ECSS.
[24:09.310 --> 24:11.230]  Other people are allowed to do that.
[24:11.490 --> 24:17.610]  However, because of the precedent that was set in our case, it would be as easy as that.
[24:17.770 --> 24:21.350]  It is very risky for someone to continue to engage in that kind of activity.
[24:22.050 --> 24:22.170]  Yeah.
[24:23.050 --> 24:23.730]  Expressing yourself.
[24:25.690 --> 24:27.890]  Basically, printing the source code to a program.
[24:28.110 --> 24:28.330]  Yeah.
[24:28.730 --> 24:29.330]  It's risky.
[24:29.470 --> 24:30.190]  It gets riskier every day.
[24:30.330 --> 24:32.790]  So you have to consider that before you do anything like that.
[24:32.830 --> 24:39.450]  And of course, if you're in another part of the country, another part of the world, rather, it doesn't apply, obviously.
[24:39.650 --> 24:43.430]  And the way the net is set up, you know, the borders don't really mean that much.
[24:43.490 --> 24:45.350]  So it's a really tricky decision.
[24:45.650 --> 24:47.390]  One thing we do know, it does affect us.
[24:47.390 --> 24:55.230]  We cannot link, we cannot post the code, but we do need to know if we can do things like list it, like talk about it, things like that.
[24:55.330 --> 24:58.410]  Anyway, so Time Warner had the code up on their site.
[24:58.530 --> 25:03.870]  They weren't breaking the law by doing it, but it sure seemed kind of hypocritical for them to have that up there.
[25:03.870 --> 25:14.430]  Now, the interesting thing is that by Time Warner coming in and pulling the code, just like that, I think that says something about the relationship between Time Warner and CNN.
[25:14.630 --> 25:18.430]  CNN always claiming that Time Warner does not interfere with their operations.
[25:18.590 --> 25:19.970]  Well, there's proof right there.
[25:20.170 --> 25:21.510]  Time Warner came in and took it.
[25:21.530 --> 25:27.250]  I don't think CNN would just, you know, remove something that quickly without any, you know, statement.
[25:27.830 --> 25:30.990]  Time Warner being one of the plaintiffs, I think, would have an interest in doing that.
[25:31.270 --> 25:31.710]  It may.
[25:31.890 --> 25:32.210]  I don't know.
[25:32.210 --> 25:35.910]  Yeah, I'd like to know if I'm wrong, but so far CNN has not said anything.
[25:36.350 --> 25:38.750]  Or they just don't want to seem hypocritical, which I...
[25:39.410 --> 25:43.730]  Well, sometimes not saying something makes you feel, makes you seem a lot more hypocritical than if you say something.
[25:44.130 --> 25:44.430]  Sure.
[25:45.050 --> 25:49.170]  And speaking of hypocrites, Verizon, the strike is over, but you know what?
[25:49.350 --> 25:50.130]  Love these segues.
[25:50.450 --> 25:53.290]  Yeah, the strike actually helped Verizon.
[25:53.790 --> 25:54.390]  Did you know that?
[25:54.590 --> 25:55.790]  How do you figure that?
[25:55.890 --> 25:56.050]  Yeah.
[25:56.330 --> 25:56.890]  How do I figure that?
[25:56.890 --> 25:57.970]  Oh, you mean name recognition?
[25:57.970 --> 25:58.910]  They got their name out?
[25:58.990 --> 25:59.930]  They got their name out.
[26:00.010 --> 26:02.050]  They didn't have to spend millions of dollars?
[26:02.050 --> 26:05.030]  They didn't know who Verizon was before the strike.
[26:05.370 --> 26:08.230]  And because of the strike, everybody was talking about Verizon.
[26:08.850 --> 26:10.130]  Day and night, you know?
[26:10.430 --> 26:13.670]  Oh, and they had these workers out there giving them publicity.
[26:13.910 --> 26:14.150]  Uh-huh.
[26:14.350 --> 26:16.610]  These workers who they didn't have to pay.
[26:16.950 --> 26:17.150]  Sure.
[26:17.270 --> 26:25.310]  Rough estimates suggest Verizon could save as much as $150 million on wages and overtime, clocked in a time and a half or better in many cases for the duration of the strike.
[26:26.130 --> 26:26.890]  Isn't that incredible?
[26:26.890 --> 26:29.510]  So Verizon really won in that case.
[26:30.330 --> 26:30.550]  Yeah.
[26:30.550 --> 26:31.390]  And everybody knows who they are.
[26:31.830 --> 26:38.430]  Bernie, any change in the date of your install or whatever it is you were trying to get from December, maybe on a little closer?
[26:38.690 --> 26:40.050]  Well, it hasn't happened yet.
[26:40.550 --> 26:43.070]  The tentative date is until December 31st.
[26:43.630 --> 26:44.810]  Actually, I haven't checked the site.
[26:44.910 --> 26:46.530]  They may have updated that.
[26:46.530 --> 26:56.730]  But when I, for listeners who weren't listening, was it last week or the week before, I had a service call scheduled for a new installation, business-related issue.
[26:57.050 --> 27:00.850]  And you can set this up on Verizon's website.
[27:01.130 --> 27:06.750]  And the date came back when I could expect this to be done, December 31st, 2000.
[27:08.670 --> 27:09.230]  Unreal.
[27:09.750 --> 27:11.030]  I think you're holding to that.
[27:11.030 --> 27:17.710]  But Verizon said that they were just setting that artificial date just so they could reschedule things later.
[27:17.990 --> 27:19.330]  But you should hold them to that.
[27:19.470 --> 27:21.970]  Don't let them in your house a day before that time.
[27:22.170 --> 27:24.530]  If they show up, say, no, no, I'm not ready for you yet.
[27:24.530 --> 27:26.450]  I want my service New Year's Eve.
[27:26.610 --> 27:26.970]  Exactly.
[27:27.450 --> 27:29.950]  I want it to come on at 11-59-59.
[27:30.210 --> 27:32.010]  That's the day they gave you December 31st.
[27:32.170 --> 27:32.330]  Oh.
[27:32.450 --> 27:32.610]  Yes.
[27:32.790 --> 27:33.150]  Beautiful.
[27:33.450 --> 27:35.110]  The New Year's Eve of the millennium.
[27:36.110 --> 27:36.790]  That's not bad.
[27:36.790 --> 27:37.210]  That's perfect.
[27:37.610 --> 27:38.230]  The true millennium.
[27:38.230 --> 27:39.030]  The true millennium.
[27:39.790 --> 27:45.810]  Well, now, Verizon also had some problems with a self-help website.
[27:45.810 --> 27:52.130]  They had to remove a customer service website last Sunday because it exposed some customers' private information.
[27:52.330 --> 27:53.710]  How many times do we have to go through this?
[27:53.850 --> 27:58.330]  The company released a new application last week that encouraged customers to troubleshoot their own problems.
[27:58.410 --> 28:08.090]  But a private researcher, an ombudsman of some sort, discovered he could enter other customers' phone numbers into the application and gain access to personal data about them.
[28:08.090 --> 28:12.730]  The security hole was first reported by securityfocus.com early Monday morning.
[28:12.910 --> 28:15.850]  A Verizon spokesman said few, if any, records were compromised.
[28:16.070 --> 28:16.730]  Yeah, right.
[28:16.870 --> 28:17.890]  They can tell us that.
[28:18.030 --> 28:19.090]  Was that the one with Jack?
[28:19.410 --> 28:21.790]  That the actual exposed information was minimal.
[28:22.350 --> 28:27.950]  Name and address information linking to phone numbers was exposed, for example, but that information is publicly available on many websites.
[28:28.310 --> 28:34.650]  The only thing that was really exposed, if you entered a number for a non-listed account, you could get the name and address back.
[28:38.870 --> 28:39.810]  Oh, golly.
[28:39.950 --> 28:41.490]  You know, those computers are really slow.
[28:41.690 --> 28:46.590]  You know, you've got to get the one, you turn the crank a few times, and it has to reboot so you can get the next one.
[28:47.410 --> 28:48.210]  Oh, geez.
[28:48.490 --> 28:48.630]  Yeah.
[28:48.850 --> 28:52.210]  So, you know, this kind of thing has been mentioned so many times, but it keeps happening.
[28:52.410 --> 28:55.810]  Was that the one where you view the source and then you get all the data?
[28:55.810 --> 28:56.430]  No, I think this...
[28:56.430 --> 28:58.390]  This is a different one?
[28:58.390 --> 28:59.330]  You can't keep up with that.
[28:59.350 --> 29:00.830]  That's two in two weeks or so?
[29:01.050 --> 29:02.630]  I don't know if the last one was Verizon.
[29:02.850 --> 29:03.530]  No, that was Verizon.
[29:03.650 --> 29:03.850]  Really?
[29:03.910 --> 29:06.450]  Because I got one for Southwestern Bell, I got one for Bell South.
[29:06.450 --> 29:07.310]  It was Verizon.
[29:07.470 --> 29:09.150]  You could put in customer data on the web.
[29:10.010 --> 29:15.070]  It would spit back another page for you, like as if you wanted to open up a new service call and then view the source.
[29:15.430 --> 29:19.390]  And in the source was outputted a lot of customer information.
[29:20.310 --> 29:20.670]  Unbelievable.
[29:20.950 --> 29:21.410]  Pretty sad.
[29:22.070 --> 29:22.270]  Yeah.
[29:22.630 --> 29:22.770]  Yeah.
[29:23.650 --> 29:25.130]  A couple other issues.
[29:26.090 --> 29:27.330]  Madonna's in a website fight.
[29:27.390 --> 29:28.130]  Have you heard about this one?
[29:28.130 --> 29:28.630]  Oh, yeah.
[29:28.830 --> 29:29.210]  Oh, boy.
[29:29.810 --> 29:33.050]  She happens to be the most famous Madonna in the world, says publicist Popstar.
[29:33.290 --> 29:35.130]  And I would continue to challenge that.
[29:35.830 --> 29:36.570]  Actually, wait a minute.
[29:36.710 --> 29:38.490]  There's no name for this publicist.
[29:38.570 --> 29:39.530]  It just says publicist.
[29:39.770 --> 29:45.310]  Popstar Madonna has gone to the United Nations for help in gaining control of the internet domain named Madonna.com.
[29:45.350 --> 29:48.470]  I just think it's so ridiculous to be running to the UN to try and get a website.
[29:48.950 --> 29:50.250]  It just is really silly.
[29:50.690 --> 29:52.070]  But come on already.
[29:52.190 --> 29:53.470]  Madonna, she obviously named her...
[29:53.470 --> 29:54.730]  It's like Donald Trump, okay?
[29:54.910 --> 29:58.110]  The word Trump existed before he came along, yet somehow he's...
[29:58.130 --> 30:02.290]  He's got the right to use the word Trump, even in relation to card games, and put his name on it.
[30:02.570 --> 30:03.110]  And Sting as well.
[30:03.250 --> 30:03.730]  Sting lost.
[30:03.810 --> 30:04.910]  Why shouldn't Madonna lose?
[30:05.190 --> 30:05.510]  Exactly.
[30:06.790 --> 30:13.330]  The address is currently owned by Dan Parisi, an entrepreneur from New Jersey, who was previously using it as a pornography site.
[30:13.770 --> 30:16.730]  Isn't this the same guy who had WhiteHouse.com?
[30:17.690 --> 30:19.050]  Well, more power to him, I say.
[30:19.490 --> 30:22.910]  The early bird gets the worm, the person who registers the site first, you know?
[30:24.210 --> 30:27.590]  You wouldn't believe the nonsense we get for having Hope.net, you know?
[30:28.530 --> 30:29.630]  Everybody wants Hope.net.
[30:29.710 --> 30:30.190]  Well, we got it.
[30:30.270 --> 30:30.790]  We're not giving it out.
[30:30.870 --> 30:31.550]  People want to buy it.
[30:31.630 --> 30:32.210]  Millions of dollars.
[30:32.830 --> 30:33.890]  But no, can't do that.
[30:34.110 --> 30:38.290]  Yeah, maybe we'll sell it to the MPAA in exchange for all the fees they want us to pay.
[30:38.290 --> 30:39.030]  No, we won't even do that.
[30:39.070 --> 30:39.410]  That's not bad.
[30:39.410 --> 30:40.330]  We won't even do that.
[30:40.710 --> 30:41.350]  How do you like that?
[30:42.170 --> 30:43.970]  We'll hold on to our domain names until the end.
[30:44.110 --> 30:53.810]  Anyway, Madonna has made a formal complaint to the UN's World Intellectual Property Organization, WIPO, hoping it will order Parisi to give the site address to her.
[30:55.130 --> 30:57.650]  The WIPO believes people...
[30:58.690 --> 31:00.270]  This sentence doesn't even make any sense.
[31:00.370 --> 31:03.910]  You know, I don't know where I got this story from, but I think most of it's nonsense.
[31:04.150 --> 31:12.850]  But the biggest nonsense of all is just, you know, people who are trying to get websites that have their names on them when there's a completely valid reason for other people to have it.
[31:12.930 --> 31:19.070]  Parisi added that far from relinquishing the address to the singer, he planned to give it to the Madonna Rehabilitation Hospital in Lincoln, Nebraska.
[31:19.530 --> 31:20.090]  That's good.
[31:20.090 --> 31:20.790]  I like that.
[31:20.870 --> 31:21.250]  That's good.
[31:21.310 --> 31:21.730]  Good for him.
[31:21.850 --> 31:22.970]  As long as they keep porn on it.
[31:23.650 --> 31:24.930]  It's the only condition he had.
[31:25.450 --> 31:25.910]  No, no.
[31:26.190 --> 31:26.790]  I'm just adding that.
[31:26.790 --> 31:28.170]  Please tell me that's not in the story.
[31:28.470 --> 31:29.770]  The content should not matter.
[31:29.850 --> 31:31.410]  The content has got nothing to do with it.
[31:31.630 --> 31:34.770]  You know, if you're not pretending to be the person...
[31:34.770 --> 31:47.230]  The way I understood the whole WIPO thing was, if you're using something and holding it from somebody and pretending you are that person, and maybe like holding it over their noses and saying, I'll sell it to you for a million dollars, otherwise I'll badmouth you on it.
[31:47.450 --> 31:52.310]  Okay, that I could see as, you know, as cyber squatting, if you want to use that stupid word.
[31:52.570 --> 31:54.770]  But this, using Madonna in a different way?
[31:54.870 --> 31:55.610]  No, not at all.
[31:55.610 --> 31:56.410]  Not at all.
[31:56.670 --> 31:59.170]  Well, it's the whole thing with the Verizon sites as well.
[31:59.310 --> 32:01.130]  Does Verizon really sucks dot com?
[32:01.390 --> 32:01.530]  Yeah.
[32:01.850 --> 32:05.650]  You know, infringe upon Verizon's verizon dot com?
[32:05.790 --> 32:06.990]  Is it confusingly similar?
[32:07.550 --> 32:08.490]  I don't think so.
[32:08.810 --> 32:09.650]  Well, I don't know.
[32:09.790 --> 32:15.730]  Maybe all the people talking about Verizon, it's similar to what they're saying about Verizon these days, but who knows?
[32:17.250 --> 32:17.790]  All right.
[32:17.870 --> 32:20.850]  We're going to take phone calls, 212-209-2900.
[32:22.210 --> 32:23.490]  Anything else going on in the world?
[32:24.370 --> 32:25.210]  Anyone out here?
[32:25.610 --> 32:26.970]  What kind of world are we talking?
[32:27.030 --> 32:27.270]  All right.
[32:27.450 --> 32:27.770]  Isaac's out.
[32:27.950 --> 32:28.490]  Alex, how about you?
[32:28.750 --> 32:30.030]  I can't really think of anything.
[32:30.470 --> 32:31.230]  Bernie, how about you?
[32:31.970 --> 32:32.650]  There's a...
[32:32.650 --> 32:33.830]  It's not down here in Philadelphia.
[32:33.830 --> 32:37.510]  It's actually being conducted in Germany, but around the world.
[32:37.750 --> 32:39.770]  The DCSS art contest.
[32:41.690 --> 32:42.850]  DCSS art contest?
[32:43.230 --> 32:43.370]  Yeah.
[32:43.370 --> 32:44.230]  Tell us what that's all about.
[32:44.630 --> 32:48.930]  Well, I'll read a brief paragraph on the site.
[32:48.930 --> 32:49.630]  It's pretty interesting.
[32:50.450 --> 32:53.530]  It starts out saying, welcome to the DCSS art contest.
[32:53.810 --> 33:01.310]  A small special interest group representing a tiny minority of movie tycoons has recently pushed the United States legislation in its favor.
[33:01.470 --> 33:08.230]  While minority groups do deserve special protection in free societies, that does not mean they can enforce their specific cultural values on everyone else.
[33:09.870 --> 33:18.610]  Both the members of this specific minority group and the organization representing them, the MTAA, are both filthy rich and awkwardly stupid.
[33:19.010 --> 33:24.010]  This does not, however, seem to be the determining characteristic or otherwise a group would be much larger.
[33:24.150 --> 33:36.550]  These attributes have led to a situation where this minority group has bought or otherwise through forced bribery and plain old lying acquired special rights far and above beyond what they deserve, even as a tiny minority group.
[33:38.230 --> 33:41.750]  So, to combat this, people can express themselves.
[33:42.850 --> 33:45.130]  DCSS is, of course, an expression.
[33:45.490 --> 33:48.590]  It touches science, politics, and art.
[33:49.250 --> 33:52.010]  All three of the highest importance to our culture.
[33:52.810 --> 33:58.890]  Surprisingly, the battle over it is not fought in any of these areas.
[33:59.090 --> 34:08.410]  Maybe because the NPA chose the battleground and has, of course, no idea about science or art and knows politics as only something it can buy.
[34:08.830 --> 34:10.570]  So, Bernie, how do you enter this contest?
[34:10.690 --> 34:14.630]  Is this a request for people to submit art or is it some kind of speech that's being given?
[34:14.650 --> 34:16.590]  Here are the rules of the contest.
[34:17.730 --> 34:21.470]  Contest entries can be any kind of digital artistic expression.
[34:21.710 --> 34:25.110]  Pictures, music, text, anything that you can digitize.
[34:26.230 --> 34:29.250]  Contest entries must, of course, be your original creations.
[34:29.250 --> 34:30.850]  You can't pirate them.
[34:31.610 --> 34:40.790]  Contest entries must have DCSS as the topic or use DCSS in the creation or as part of the art itself.
[34:41.430 --> 34:45.790]  Now, this point will be ruled on a case-by-case basis in case of doubt.
[34:46.130 --> 34:55.150]  But as a rough guideline, anything that could not have been created were DCSS to be banned completely will definitely count.
[34:57.150 --> 35:06.770]  Contest entries may be submitted to deart, that's D-E-A-R-T, at www.lemuria.org.
[35:06.890 --> 35:10.490]  L-E-M as in Mary, U-R-I-A dot org.
[35:10.690 --> 35:12.890]  Now, the www is part of the email address?
[35:12.970 --> 35:13.930]  That's what it says here.
[35:14.010 --> 35:16.790]  I know that sounds very weird, but that's what it says.
[35:16.990 --> 35:17.390]  All right.
[35:20.990 --> 35:23.430]  I doubt that's right, but that's what it says on here.
[35:23.430 --> 35:26.150]  Well, I'm sure if you go to that website, you'll see more information about it.
[35:26.170 --> 35:31.610]  Just go to lemuria.org, L-E-M-U-R-I-A dot org, and you can get information about it.
[35:31.950 --> 35:36.230]  The contest will run from September 1st through December 31st, 2000.
[35:36.230 --> 35:45.710]  There will be one minor prize every month and one major prize at the end of the contest for the most interesting or provocative items submitted.
[35:46.090 --> 35:46.610]  Sounds good.
[35:46.610 --> 35:50.590]  And then you'll give them a call on your brand new phone line on December 31st.
[35:50.910 --> 35:59.510]  The prizes, and there are prizes every month, the winner can select any books, CDs, DVDs, or other items from any place that allows online orders.
[35:59.770 --> 36:04.290]  The winner can choose any items costing up to $50, including shipping charges.
[36:04.450 --> 36:05.730]  Is that a major or minor prize?
[36:05.870 --> 36:06.650]  Those are the minor prizes.
[36:06.650 --> 36:06.870]  Okay.
[36:06.870 --> 36:12.250]  And the grand prize at the end of the year will receive a prize worth of, worth $100.
[36:12.870 --> 36:13.270]  Whoa.
[36:13.890 --> 36:14.190]  Whoa.
[36:14.390 --> 36:15.250]  DVDs, books, whatever.
[36:15.450 --> 36:17.250]  So, you know, this isn't Regis Philbin here.
[36:17.350 --> 36:18.230]  This is, you know...
[36:18.230 --> 36:18.530]  I'm sorry.
[36:18.670 --> 36:20.550]  We're kind of low-key about these things.
[36:20.990 --> 36:21.090]  Yeah.
[36:21.750 --> 36:22.070]  All right.
[36:22.130 --> 36:27.230]  This sound here means that we're ready to call our AT&T operator with a question.
[36:27.490 --> 36:27.910]  Uh-oh.
[36:31.650 --> 36:33.410]  And I think you'll be shocked by the answer.
[36:33.510 --> 36:33.910]  I was.
[36:36.350 --> 36:37.450]  Nothing shocking anymore.
[36:37.550 --> 36:38.210]  AT&T.
[36:38.890 --> 36:42.070]  To place a calling card or credit card call, press 1.
[36:42.310 --> 36:44.510]  To place a collect call, press 2.
[36:44.650 --> 36:44.970]  Operator.
[36:45.110 --> 36:47.530]  For AT&T customer service, press 3.
[36:47.790 --> 36:49.630]  For double O-info, U.S.
[36:49.730 --> 36:51.090]  directory, press 4.
[36:51.390 --> 36:53.930]  For operator assistance, press 0.
[36:54.310 --> 36:55.070]  That's what I want.
[36:55.130 --> 36:55.810]  Operator assistance.
[36:59.220 --> 37:00.240]  AT&T.
[37:00.360 --> 37:01.120]  How may I help you?
[37:01.280 --> 37:01.560]  Hi.
[37:01.720 --> 37:02.840]  Do you have payphone rates?
[37:04.780 --> 37:06.260]  No, I really don't.
[37:06.320 --> 37:07.480]  Each payphone is going to vary.
[37:08.080 --> 37:08.640]  Really?
[37:09.240 --> 37:11.500]  Every AT&T payphone in New York would vary?
[37:11.780 --> 37:12.240]  Well, no.
[37:12.360 --> 37:15.000]  It's going to vary depending on where you're calling to.
[37:15.380 --> 37:16.220]  Well, that's what I wanted to ask.
[37:16.300 --> 37:18.620]  I wanted to know how much it would cost to call Australia from a payphone.
[37:19.300 --> 37:19.840]  A lot.
[37:20.340 --> 37:20.680]  Yeah.
[37:20.680 --> 37:22.900]  That's what I figured, but I wasn't sure how much.
[37:23.340 --> 37:23.860]  Hold on.
[37:24.040 --> 37:25.480]  I was being facetious here.
[37:27.040 --> 37:27.520]  Come on now.
[37:27.520 --> 37:28.800]  I just got back from vacation.
[37:28.980 --> 37:29.620]  Can you pray?
[37:30.840 --> 37:37.340]  I think you're also being honest because I know it costs a lot more to put money in a payphone than it does to actually use a calling card or something, right?
[37:37.340 --> 37:37.600]  Yeah.
[37:37.980 --> 37:38.840]  I don't know why that is.
[37:38.840 --> 37:41.580]  I'm paying for the taxes and the service charges and everything right there.
[37:41.660 --> 37:41.980]  Uh-huh.
[37:42.500 --> 37:43.120]  Hold on a second.
[37:43.280 --> 37:43.480]  Okay.
[37:58.190 --> 37:59.190]  Between 2 p.m.
[37:59.210 --> 38:00.130]  and 3 a.m.
[38:00.150 --> 38:02.350]  at 1620 for the first three minutes.
[38:03.550 --> 38:03.750]  Oh.
[38:03.870 --> 38:07.490]  $8.76 plus for each three minutes after that.
[38:07.590 --> 38:08.950]  How much for each additional three minutes?
[38:09.170 --> 38:10.070]  $8.76.
[38:10.770 --> 38:11.910]  How do you put in a penny?
[38:12.430 --> 38:13.030]  Yeah, down.
[38:13.170 --> 38:13.750]  I did plus.
[38:14.210 --> 38:14.630]  Oh, okay.
[38:15.030 --> 38:19.030]  My other question is, as you probably know, it takes a lot of time to put money into a payphone.
[38:19.410 --> 38:20.350]  How does that work?
[38:20.510 --> 38:23.730]  Like, you know, it probably would take me three minutes to put $8.70, whatever.
[38:24.070 --> 38:26.550]  You wouldn't be charged for the time you were actually putting the coins in.
[38:26.570 --> 38:29.350]  So the call goes on hold at that point?
[38:29.490 --> 38:29.750]  Yes.
[38:30.010 --> 38:30.210]  Okay.
[38:30.270 --> 38:31.650]  And do you know how much a payphone can hold?
[38:31.650 --> 38:33.810]  Because I was planning on being on for like a half hour.
[38:34.510 --> 38:34.830]  Ouch.
[38:35.150 --> 38:36.530]  I don't want to fill the thing up.
[38:36.750 --> 38:38.310]  Why don't you buy a prepaid card instead?
[38:38.310 --> 38:42.730]  Uh, well, it's because, um, I just prefer payphones.
[38:43.210 --> 38:43.910]  I don't know why.
[38:43.990 --> 38:44.830]  Call me a sentimentalist.
[38:44.830 --> 38:47.270]  Okay, because, you know, you can buy a prepaid card.
[38:47.430 --> 38:47.710]  Uh-huh.
[38:48.730 --> 38:48.990]  How much?
[38:49.050 --> 38:51.670]  You can purchase them for $10, $20, $30, you know.
[38:51.930 --> 38:54.150]  Do you know what the per minute charge would be for Australia?
[38:55.050 --> 38:57.750]  For an AT&T calling, a prepaid calling card?
[38:57.790 --> 38:58.010]  Yeah.
[38:58.630 --> 38:59.530]  Let's see what I have.
[39:01.710 --> 39:05.310]  If it's substantially less than $8.76 a minute, I guess, you know, it might be worth it.
[39:06.370 --> 39:09.670]  Well, it'd be worth it, people, if one, you're not just putting all those coins in.
[39:09.790 --> 39:09.990]  Yeah.
[39:10.570 --> 39:12.850]  And you know exactly how much you have on that card.
[39:13.010 --> 39:13.170]  Right.
[39:13.590 --> 39:17.330]  Um, if you do buy the card, make sure you buy one that's for international rates.
[39:17.530 --> 39:18.070]  Right, right.
[39:18.970 --> 39:21.390]  It's just I also have a lot of coins I'm looking to get rid of.
[39:21.650 --> 39:23.750]  I figure this is probably a good way to support a cause, you know.
[39:23.870 --> 39:26.030]  Oh, only if they're quarters.
[39:26.470 --> 39:26.810]  Uh-huh.
[39:27.650 --> 39:29.410]  Dimes and nickels are a real pain.
[39:29.930 --> 39:31.910]  But you do take dimes and nickels still, right?
[39:32.110 --> 39:33.290]  Yeah, but they jam the machine.
[39:33.290 --> 39:33.850]  Oh, really?
[39:34.150 --> 39:37.330]  Yeah, because they, machines only hold X amount of coins, per se.
[39:38.090 --> 39:39.110]  Okay, right, all right.
[39:39.210 --> 39:41.230]  So it doesn't distinguish between a quarter and a dime.
[39:41.490 --> 39:42.810]  They all wind up in the same pile.
[39:43.130 --> 39:43.530]  Exactly.
[39:43.730 --> 39:43.990]  Oh, okay.
[39:44.810 --> 39:49.630]  Um, on a calling card, actually, you would pay per minute, not per three minutes.
[39:49.910 --> 39:50.150]  Okay.
[39:50.730 --> 39:53.890]  Uh, the first one minute at the same time is $7.14.
[39:54.470 --> 39:58.570]  Um, each minute after that's $2.64.
[39:59.170 --> 39:59.610]  Really?
[39:59.690 --> 40:00.950]  So it's not that, that much of a difference.
[40:01.170 --> 40:02.530]  It's not that much of a difference.
[40:03.030 --> 40:05.570]  But we do one minute increments rather than three.
[40:05.790 --> 40:06.050]  Uh-huh.
[40:06.330 --> 40:10.790]  So that's where, and you don't have, we won't be interrupting your conversation every three minutes.
[40:11.410 --> 40:13.050]  Yeah, that is, that can be kind of annoying.
[40:13.510 --> 40:14.070]  Okay, great.
[40:14.130 --> 40:15.250]  Well, thanks for all the information.
[40:15.630 --> 40:16.570]  Oh, not a problem.
[40:16.730 --> 40:16.870]  All right.
[40:16.870 --> 40:17.230]  Good luck.
[40:17.390 --> 40:17.670]  Take care.
[40:18.530 --> 40:30.870]  I don't know about you guys, but I have seen many, many times advertisements in various places for overseas rates, and they don't exceed a dollar a minute.
[40:31.110 --> 40:33.710]  In fact, most of them are more like 10 or 20 cents a minute.
[40:33.930 --> 40:35.110]  I don't know what Australia is.
[40:35.170 --> 40:38.510]  Maybe somebody out there can do some research and ask around.
[40:38.530 --> 40:39.090]  All right, thanks.
[40:39.850 --> 40:40.530]  Bernie, you okay?
[40:41.010 --> 40:41.470]  Yeah, all right.
[40:42.130 --> 40:43.450]  What in the world are you doing?
[40:43.750 --> 40:44.550]  He was yelling at me.
[40:44.670 --> 40:44.950]  That's okay.
[40:45.010 --> 40:46.150]  I was just yelling back at them.
[40:46.430 --> 40:47.010]  Okay, great.
[40:47.650 --> 40:49.050]  Well, in any event...
[40:49.050 --> 40:51.330]  Well, those are wholesalers.
[40:51.790 --> 40:52.170]  Uh-huh.
[40:52.270 --> 40:54.110]  Those, like, cards you pick up in 7-Eleven?
[40:54.310 --> 40:54.510]  Yeah.
[40:54.830 --> 40:56.290]  I mean, they're telecom wholesalers.
[40:56.290 --> 40:59.270]  I'm talking about companies like, say, AT&T, for instance.
[40:59.470 --> 40:59.630]  Okay.
[41:00.910 --> 41:01.550]  Where it's...
[41:01.550 --> 41:02.310]  She was nice, by the way.
[41:02.390 --> 41:03.110]  She was very nice, yeah.
[41:03.230 --> 41:03.410]  I liked her.
[41:03.410 --> 41:04.270]  Oh, the people are great.
[41:04.510 --> 41:06.310]  I mean, you know, they don't set the rates.
[41:06.450 --> 41:09.310]  I'm sure if she set the rates, it would be, you know, a lot more fair.
[41:09.790 --> 41:11.090]  Uh, let's, uh...
[41:11.710 --> 41:15.410]  Before we go to phone calls, let's see if we can get an AT&T representative.
[41:20.150 --> 41:25.030]  This is the actual office that gives you calling rates and things like that.
[41:26.070 --> 41:27.030]  AT&T.
[41:27.890 --> 41:34.070]  Thank you for calling AT&T, your long-distance, wireless, and internet access company.
[41:34.550 --> 41:36.830]  Please note that our choices have changed.
[41:36.830 --> 41:37.650]  That's a new one, isn't it?
[41:37.650 --> 41:41.590]  For information about AT&T products and services, press 1.
[41:41.910 --> 41:46.270]  For sales of AT&T products and services, press 2.
[41:46.690 --> 41:52.830]  For assistance with your current AT&T service or billing, or to report a move, press 3.
[41:53.270 --> 41:56.850]  For information about the AT&T website and internet service...
[41:57.290 --> 41:57.470]  All right.
[41:57.610 --> 41:57.850]  Enough.
[41:58.510 --> 42:02.810]  If AT&T is your current long-distance carrier, press 1.
[42:03.550 --> 42:05.310]  Thanks for calling AT&T.
[42:05.310 --> 42:07.510]  All representatives are currently assisting...
[42:07.510 --> 42:08.210]  I thought it was a person.
[42:08.450 --> 42:11.610]  Please join in on the line, and your call will be answered in the order it was received.
[42:11.710 --> 42:11.790]  All right.
[42:11.830 --> 42:16.110]  We're only going to give her a minute, or them a minute, to answer the phone call.
[42:17.270 --> 42:18.250]  If we don't...
[42:18.250 --> 42:18.730]  Let's have music.
[42:18.870 --> 42:31.110]  If they don't answer our question in a minute or so, I'm going to ask our listeners to look into this and see if they can find out what kind of, you know, darling, direct type of service they have for a place like Australia.
[42:31.110 --> 42:33.290]  I'll bet you'll get it below 50 cents a minute.
[42:33.290 --> 42:38.050]  So, I'm wondering, my question is, $8.76 every three minutes.
[42:38.150 --> 42:38.630]  For what?
[42:39.090 --> 42:39.810]  What is it that...
[42:39.810 --> 42:41.990]  You're paying somebody to go there and pick up the coins?
[42:42.150 --> 42:42.310]  Okay.
[42:42.410 --> 42:43.430]  But, you know, you get the coins.
[42:43.670 --> 42:44.710]  Thank you for calling AT&T.
[42:45.010 --> 42:46.150]  All representatives are currently assisting...
[42:46.150 --> 42:46.910]  Again, I thought it was a person.
[42:47.210 --> 42:48.290]  Oh, here you go.
[42:48.370 --> 42:48.450]  Shh.
[42:54.400 --> 42:54.720]  Hello?
[42:55.020 --> 42:56.200]  Thank you for calling AT&T.
[42:56.280 --> 42:57.260]  My name is Farrah Desnord.
[42:57.340 --> 42:58.000]  How may I assist you?
[42:58.160 --> 42:58.400]  Hi.
[42:58.400 --> 42:59.360]  I just had a general question.
[42:59.440 --> 43:06.020]  I don't yet have a phone line, but I was wondering if AT&T has a service to Australia where if I call there, I can get a special rate.
[43:06.640 --> 43:07.920]  Okay, Beryl, give me one moment, sir.
[43:08.100 --> 43:08.420]  Thank you.
[43:41.210 --> 43:42.450]  Okay, at this time, sir?
[43:42.630 --> 43:42.770]  Yes.
[43:42.970 --> 43:47.510]  AT&T can provide you with the AT&T One Rate...
[43:48.210 --> 43:49.150]  Can or can't?
[43:49.450 --> 43:49.770]  Can.
[43:50.010 --> 43:52.750]  They can provide you with the AT&T One Rate International Value Plan.
[43:52.970 --> 43:58.990]  That plan will allow you to call Australia for just 17 cents per minute, and your monthly fee would only be $3.
[43:59.670 --> 43:59.990]  Really?
[44:00.150 --> 44:00.330]  Okay.
[44:01.710 --> 44:05.470]  And that's going to exist for a while, because it'll probably be about a month or so before I get a phone line.
[44:05.870 --> 44:06.370]  Okay, great.
[44:06.410 --> 44:07.730]  That's the best rate you have, I would imagine.
[44:07.910 --> 44:08.330]  Yes, sir.
[44:08.670 --> 44:08.910]  Okay.
[44:09.010 --> 44:11.930]  Do you know how much it costs to call Australia from your home if you don't have that...
[44:11.930 --> 44:13.190]  Okay, let me...
[44:13.190 --> 44:14.130]  Beryl, give me one moment, sir.
[44:15.830 --> 44:17.810]  Most likely $1.78 per minute.
[44:18.070 --> 44:18.390]  Okay.
[44:19.070 --> 44:19.410]  All right.
[44:19.570 --> 44:20.050]  Thanks very much.
[44:20.190 --> 44:20.670]  You're welcome, sir.
[44:20.670 --> 44:20.810]  All right.
[44:20.830 --> 44:21.870]  Thank you for calling AT&T.
[44:22.610 --> 44:23.750]  So you see how easy it is?
[44:23.830 --> 44:25.210]  A little bit of a discrepancy there.
[44:25.490 --> 44:25.910]  How's that?
[44:26.110 --> 44:26.710]  Just a touch.
[44:26.710 --> 44:28.550]  The $17 versus the $8.76?
[44:28.810 --> 44:29.530]  Yeah, a little bit.
[44:29.570 --> 44:30.670]  Well, actually, $0.17 a minute.
[44:30.790 --> 44:34.850]  So that's actually, what, $0.34, $0.40, I don't know, about $0.50 every three minutes.
[44:35.030 --> 44:36.590]  But yeah, it's a sizable difference.
[44:36.850 --> 44:44.830]  Now, figure the people who have to use pay phones, who can't get credit cards, who can't get calling cards, who can't get home phone numbers, what kind of people...
[44:44.830 --> 44:46.650]  Are those wealthy people from Connecticut, perhaps?
[44:47.290 --> 44:47.590]  No.
[44:48.190 --> 44:53.430]  Generally are poor people, and they're the ones who are putting all the coins into their phones, and they're putting more money in than anybody.
[44:54.090 --> 44:56.150]  My God, it's amazing how they milk people.
[44:56.150 --> 44:57.550]  So, anyway, that's the point I wanted to make.
[44:58.270 --> 45:00.130]  And I think AT&T made it for me.
[45:00.330 --> 45:01.150]  All right, let's take some phone calls.
[45:01.230 --> 45:02.910]  212-209-2900.
[45:03.270 --> 45:04.650]  Pick a number, 1 through 9.
[45:05.470 --> 45:05.790]  Alex?
[45:06.010 --> 45:06.330]  7.
[45:06.670 --> 45:06.970]  7.
[45:07.150 --> 45:08.070]  Hey, don't trust me anymore.
[45:08.130 --> 45:08.790]  Yeah, I don't trust you anymore.
[45:08.790 --> 45:09.710]  He picks the rebel line.
[45:09.770 --> 45:10.050]  Good evening.
[45:10.150 --> 45:10.630]  You're on the air.
[45:11.070 --> 45:12.110]  Hey, I'm number 7.
[45:12.270 --> 45:12.390]  Wow.
[45:12.390 --> 45:12.650]  All right.
[45:13.070 --> 45:13.850]  Lucky number 7.
[45:13.950 --> 45:14.230]  How you doing?
[45:14.290 --> 45:15.230]  Do you feel like a number 7?
[45:15.430 --> 45:17.270]  I just feel like asking a question.
[45:17.630 --> 45:18.370]  All right, what's the question?
[45:18.890 --> 45:21.310]  When you mentioned something before, I forget what it was.
[45:21.470 --> 45:31.450]  It had something to do with, like, freedom of speech and whatnot, the First Amendment, how is the fact that it's been deemed against the law to listen to cellular phones?
[45:32.890 --> 45:35.390]  That's like a reverse of freedom of speech.
[45:35.690 --> 45:37.170]  Now we can't listen?
[45:37.730 --> 45:53.890]  I think it's because it's against the law because it's against other people's Fourth Amendment rights, whereas you have an expectation of privacy when you're on a cellular phone that nobody will listen to your telephone calls, even though you probably really shouldn't have that expectation of privacy,
[45:53.970 --> 45:55.850]  especially if you're on an analog cellular phone.
[45:56.170 --> 46:02.290]  See, my First Amendment rights are being violated right now because there's a word I really want to use and respond to that, and I can't use it on the air.
[46:02.550 --> 46:09.730]  So I'll say hogwash instead because I don't think there's any expectation of privacy when you use a wireless communications device at all.
[46:09.730 --> 46:13.210]  Sure, there shouldn't be, but most people don't understand the technology.
[46:13.470 --> 46:14.430]  They just use it.
[46:14.570 --> 46:15.610]  They just pick up the phone.
[46:16.130 --> 46:17.470]  Ignorance is no defense.
[46:17.670 --> 46:18.650]  Ignorance isn't a defense.
[46:19.150 --> 46:20.170]  I've heard that a few times.
[46:20.170 --> 46:20.890]  But that's the rule.
[46:22.310 --> 46:22.730]  Yeah.
[46:22.810 --> 46:25.690]  Well, the thing is, you know, since 1986...
[46:25.690 --> 46:26.270]  Oh, we lost that person.
[46:26.450 --> 46:36.250]  Since 1986, we've had the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, and that is basically what made it illegal to listen to cellular phone calls.
[46:36.290 --> 46:41.130]  Now, that's when we started to realize that there was a problem on the road.
[46:41.490 --> 46:42.330]  It's a frequency.
[46:42.570 --> 46:43.190]  Yeah, exactly.
[46:43.290 --> 46:43.710]  It's a frequency.
[46:43.970 --> 46:48.970]  It's an unencrypted frequency, and it's been extended to mobile phone, you know, portable phones.
[46:48.970 --> 46:50.890]  It was a great way to get to listen to people's phone conversations.
[46:51.090 --> 46:54.470]  You give them a mobile phone for a present, and they sit in their driveway, and you listen to them on the phone.
[46:54.950 --> 46:55.870]  But that doesn't happen.
[46:55.950 --> 46:56.810]  Cops do that all the time.
[46:58.250 --> 46:58.930]  It's silly.
[46:59.130 --> 47:07.350]  You know, it's also a way for the companies that make these devices to get out of actually encrypting or doing something to secure people's privacy.
[47:07.610 --> 47:13.530]  And it's also a great way to ensure that law enforcement still is able to do this easily by making it illegal for anybody else to do it.
[47:13.990 --> 47:18.890]  So there are a number of issues there, and, you know, it's a very bad thing.
[47:18.970 --> 47:21.190]  It's a very bad law, very bad way of thinking.
[47:21.830 --> 47:22.390]  All right.
[47:22.450 --> 47:24.030]  Let's move over here.
[47:24.130 --> 47:24.390]  Good evening.
[47:24.470 --> 47:24.870]  You're on the air.
[47:25.590 --> 47:26.330]  Good evening.
[47:26.770 --> 47:31.910]  I always use the crossover PT1 Communications.
[47:31.910 --> 47:35.450]  That is 101-6868.
[47:35.710 --> 47:50.450]  And Australia would be something like 101-6868 plus either 011 or domestically, and Canada and so forth, one plus area code number.
[47:50.590 --> 47:50.850]  Okay.
[47:52.910 --> 47:58.730]  All of the USA, including Guam, Saipan, U.S.
[47:58.870 --> 48:11.390]  Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico, all of Canada and all of the United Kingdom and the Channel Islands are 7.9 cents a minute, 24 hours, seven days a week.
[48:11.470 --> 48:12.150]  What about Kuwait?
[48:13.990 --> 48:15.970]  It's going to be very...
[48:15.970 --> 48:16.630]  Oh, I'm sorry.
[48:16.650 --> 48:17.370]  I thought that was a state.
[48:17.470 --> 48:17.830]  Never mind.
[48:18.470 --> 48:19.810]  Well, state of Kuwait, yes.
[48:20.170 --> 48:21.150]  No, I thought it was one of ours.
[48:21.470 --> 48:21.650]  Oh, no.
[48:23.210 --> 48:27.150]  It was a two-letter postal abbreviation, KW, right?
[48:27.150 --> 48:28.250]  I was misinformed, okay?
[48:28.250 --> 48:29.430]  I'm a little ahead of my time.
[48:29.510 --> 48:29.710]  Okay.
[48:29.950 --> 48:30.870]  What about Australia?
[48:31.410 --> 48:32.330]  Australia is going...
[48:32.330 --> 48:33.850]  I don't have the chart right in front of me.
[48:33.930 --> 48:45.770]  By the way, they used to have a monthly fee, but that's been two or three years since that four, whatever it was, three or four, 95 a month monthly fee was dropped.
[48:46.130 --> 48:56.630]  And so now it's just countries in Western Europe, other countries besides the United Kingdom are like as low as nine cents a minute.
[48:56.830 --> 49:02.390]  Australia and New Zealand are probably around 13 or 14 cents a minute.
[49:02.390 --> 49:05.870]  Japan is about 15...
[49:09.910 --> 49:12.130]  It's just absolutely minimal rates.
[49:12.590 --> 49:18.790]  They're at 718-939-9000, I believe.
[49:19.050 --> 49:24.790]  And also, let's see if I can remember, the toll-free number is something like 888.
[49:26.150 --> 49:28.550]  Well, they have a worldwide website.
[49:28.810 --> 49:35.190]  It's p-like-peter, t-like-thomas-thedigit1.com.
[49:36.250 --> 49:40.130]  PT is supposed to stand for phone time, I believe.
[49:40.430 --> 49:42.770]  And you just can't beat them, as I say.
[49:43.550 --> 49:44.110]  Almost...
[49:44.110 --> 49:45.950]  And it comes on your ballot...
[49:45.950 --> 49:47.390]  Excuse me, your Verizon bill.
[49:47.650 --> 49:49.790]  May I make a comment about the...
[49:49.790 --> 49:51.510]  Too much to see there.
[49:51.510 --> 49:57.490]  He was talking about, it seems, the company changes its name every few years.
[49:57.750 --> 50:01.030]  Actually, if you stop and think about it, it's been completely justified.
[50:01.430 --> 50:03.210]  First, there was the divestiture.
[50:03.450 --> 50:05.950]  And it had to be 9X was...
[50:06.510 --> 50:08.610]  There was no connection with Bell Atlantic then.
[50:08.810 --> 50:09.030]  Right.
[50:09.270 --> 50:09.570]  Okay.
[50:09.990 --> 50:12.290]  N-Y-N-E for New York, New England.
[50:12.510 --> 50:14.570]  And then X was the only letter to fill in.
[50:14.890 --> 50:17.030]  Then it was joined to Bell Atlantic.
[50:17.030 --> 50:20.970]  And Bell Atlantic wanted to keep that as the major name.
[50:20.970 --> 50:25.150]  And lots of people had said that 9X sounded like a laxative or something.
[50:25.230 --> 50:27.390]  So it became Bell Atlantic.
[50:27.650 --> 50:30.050]  Now they have joined with some...
[50:30.050 --> 50:30.690]  What's the name?
[50:30.890 --> 50:31.630]  A GTE.
[50:32.430 --> 50:36.330]  A huge company who were exempt from...
[50:36.330 --> 50:40.730]  Because they had local and long-distance service in about 30 states.
[50:40.910 --> 50:44.630]  At the time of the divestiture, they were not prohibited.
[50:44.630 --> 50:47.270]  They were allowed to be both long-distance and local.
[50:47.270 --> 50:55.150]  I think the major exception in that, rather than being one of the seven baby Bells, or also not being a little tiny independent.
[50:55.610 --> 50:58.290]  So that's how now they are...
[50:58.290 --> 50:59.030]  They've gone to Verizon.
[50:59.190 --> 51:03.110]  By the way, the company's official name is still...
[51:03.110 --> 51:12.050]  Within New York State is still New York Telephone Company in official documents and notices and so forth.
[51:12.050 --> 51:13.990]  So can you still write checks to New York Telephone?
[51:14.550 --> 51:16.790]  You certainly would be able to, yes.
[51:17.230 --> 51:18.350]  They maintain the name.
[51:18.550 --> 51:20.210]  They maintain all the names up and through.
[51:20.690 --> 51:26.790]  Oh, well, I would think only New York Telephone Company and whatever the latest one is.
[51:26.990 --> 51:27.870]  How about 9X, though?
[51:28.130 --> 51:29.370]  Probably a check to 9X, too.
[51:29.890 --> 51:30.510]  We ought to try that.
[51:30.810 --> 51:33.870]  You know, Cheshire Catalyst says he still writes checks to the phone company, and it works.
[51:34.050 --> 51:34.590]  Uh-huh, right.
[51:34.690 --> 51:35.190]  The phone company.
[51:35.810 --> 51:38.490]  By the way, I would say one more thing to Mr. C.
[51:38.510 --> 51:38.730]  there.
[51:38.730 --> 51:44.930]  He once said that when he went to spend...
[51:44.930 --> 52:01.390]  to charge something on his Amex card, that even though they had said there was no credit limit on his, like, regular green card or whatever, that he was asked to...
[52:01.390 --> 52:04.390]  What they did there was not inconsistent at all.
[52:04.550 --> 52:05.290]  They were merely...
[52:05.290 --> 52:09.450]  In other words, he had not been being a big spender on that card.
[52:09.670 --> 52:15.550]  And they were merely being sure that neither he nor Amex Company were being defrauded.
[52:15.550 --> 52:20.290]  Well, you know, usually the way to be sure of something like that is to contact the person, not simply cut them off.
[52:20.590 --> 52:23.790]  I mean, it just seems like, you know, that's a nice thing to do.
[52:24.010 --> 52:25.410]  Anyway, thanks for all the points.
[52:25.510 --> 52:26.490]  We want to move on to some more calls.
[52:27.910 --> 52:31.370]  And we do have other things we want to talk about as well.
[52:32.210 --> 52:34.110]  212-209-2900.
[52:34.570 --> 52:36.230]  An important announcement.
[52:36.450 --> 52:45.590]  Freedom Downtime will be showing again, second time, actually, at the TourCon conference, which is happening this Friday, Saturday, Sunday in San Diego.
[52:47.050 --> 52:51.770]  Address information and all registration information will be found at www.tourcon.com.
[52:51.770 --> 52:55.970]  That's spelled T-O-O-R-C-O-N.com.
[52:56.530 --> 52:58.330]  Tour being root backwards, you know.
[52:59.010 --> 52:59.330]  Ooh!
[53:00.810 --> 53:03.550]  And it's going to be showing Saturday, 9 p.m.
[53:03.850 --> 53:04.750]  I'm heading out there.
[53:05.210 --> 53:07.230]  And I'm also going to show it to Kevin.
[53:07.650 --> 53:10.110]  Kevin's not allowed to go to TourCon, but he is in Los Angeles.
[53:10.350 --> 53:11.310]  He's swinging by.
[53:11.310 --> 53:16.790]  He's right next to San Diego, so we're going to rent out a theater and invite all his friends and family and things like that.
[53:16.910 --> 53:17.250]  It'll be great.
[53:18.070 --> 53:19.090]  So, yeah, it'll be fun.
[53:19.150 --> 53:20.470]  But you're going to be at the meeting on Friday, right?
[53:20.610 --> 53:21.030]  Not here.
[53:21.090 --> 53:22.070]  I'll be at the meeting in San Diego.
[53:22.370 --> 53:22.650]  Oh.
[53:22.830 --> 53:22.990]  Yeah.
[53:23.190 --> 53:23.670]  We'll miss you.
[53:23.730 --> 53:24.410]  Far, far away.
[53:25.350 --> 53:26.990]  Yeah, well, you just got to live with that kind of thing.
[53:27.070 --> 53:28.230]  Well, I'll be here for all the New Yorkers.
[53:28.270 --> 53:29.150]  You know what's interesting, though?
[53:29.310 --> 53:36.510]  I tried to get a flight out to San Diego last week, you know, for late this week.
[53:36.770 --> 53:37.650]  You know what they wanted?
[53:37.770 --> 53:37.870]  You know?
[53:38.050 --> 53:41.130]  And this is very similar to what we just did with AT&T.
[53:41.310 --> 53:41.970]  Do you know what they wanted?
[53:43.290 --> 53:43.650]  $800.
[53:44.170 --> 53:44.430]  Okay.
[53:44.650 --> 53:44.950]  Isaac?
[53:46.110 --> 53:47.250]  I'm going to go for $1.
[53:49.090 --> 53:49.450]  Bernie?
[53:49.650 --> 53:54.550]  If you stay with that kind of an answer, you're going to be disqualified from future contests.
[53:54.750 --> 53:54.990]  Why?
[53:55.510 --> 53:57.550]  Because no airline in the world posts $1.
[53:57.890 --> 53:59.250]  No, but he's playing the prices right here.
[53:59.250 --> 54:00.170]  He's getting it as close without going over.
[54:00.290 --> 54:02.310]  Yeah, well, you have to select something within reason.
[54:03.230 --> 54:06.950]  I did it about a month ago, a couple months ago, for about $400.
[54:07.310 --> 54:07.710]  All right, so wait.
[54:07.730 --> 54:08.270]  You said $800.
[54:08.270 --> 54:08.810]  You said...
[54:08.810 --> 54:09.630]  I'm going to go for $700.
[54:09.890 --> 54:10.250]  $700.
[54:10.390 --> 54:11.210]  And you said how much, Bernie?
[54:11.310 --> 54:13.010]  I did it for about $400.
[54:13.210 --> 54:13.510]  $400.
[54:13.950 --> 54:15.170]  They wanted $2,100.
[54:15.670 --> 54:16.270]  $2,100.
[54:16.630 --> 54:16.670]  Yeah.
[54:16.870 --> 54:17.930]  I was going to lie to Russia for that.
[54:18.110 --> 54:19.470]  And the thing is, that's every airline.
[54:19.590 --> 54:21.510]  They all quote the exact same price to the penny.
[54:21.630 --> 54:23.650]  Isn't that a weird coincidence that they do that?
[54:23.770 --> 54:25.390]  Well, what was the time differential here?
[54:25.410 --> 54:26.510]  Was it under 14 days?
[54:26.670 --> 54:28.670]  It was under 14 days, but it was over seven days.
[54:29.150 --> 54:29.390]  Huh.
[54:29.550 --> 54:29.910]  You know?
[54:30.050 --> 54:31.930]  I still don't see why it should go up so much.
[54:31.930 --> 54:33.410]  If they have the seats, they should try to sell them.
[54:33.410 --> 54:34.410]  What about that price line thing?
[54:34.450 --> 54:35.510]  What about that price line thing?
[54:35.510 --> 54:37.470]  I'm very glad you mentioned that, because that's where I went.
[54:37.470 --> 54:41.250]  I went to the website, and I don't often endorse things.
[54:41.410 --> 54:43.650]  But I went there, and I filled out their little form.
[54:43.890 --> 54:45.510]  Now, I don't know if you've ever used price line before.
[54:45.530 --> 54:48.470]  I used it to get to Vegas earlier this year.
[54:50.090 --> 54:54.590]  And basically, you fill out all the information, name, address, and credit card information.
[54:54.590 --> 54:59.090]  You have to pretty much commit and say, if you find me a flight, then I'm taking that flight.
[54:59.090 --> 55:00.170]  And you can't make any changes.
[55:00.270 --> 55:01.770]  So that's the only condition.
[55:02.030 --> 55:03.970]  And so I said, okay, this is the day I want to go.
[55:04.210 --> 55:05.630]  This is the day I want to come back.
[55:05.890 --> 55:07.850]  I'll make as many stops as necessary.
[55:08.130 --> 55:10.450]  I'll take a propeller plane if you say so.
[55:10.590 --> 55:13.470]  You know, and I don't care if it's morning, noon, or night.
[55:13.930 --> 55:15.470]  You know, any time is fine.
[55:15.570 --> 55:16.370]  Just find me a flight.
[55:16.370 --> 55:19.230]  And then they say, how much would you like to pay?
[55:19.370 --> 55:20.510]  And that's the best part of the whole thing.
[55:20.630 --> 55:22.410]  So I said, well, let's see, $2,100.
[55:23.090 --> 55:23.710]  I don't know.
[55:23.830 --> 55:26.010]  I'd like to pay $300.
[55:26.890 --> 55:28.610]  And so I submitted that.
[55:28.710 --> 55:32.770]  And in about 10 minutes, I got a piece of email telling me to go back to the website with the URL.
[55:32.910 --> 55:33.570]  I went back to the website.
[55:33.670 --> 55:35.630]  I said, congratulations, your thing is accepted.
[55:36.150 --> 55:39.190]  So for $300, I'm now taking a $2,100 flight out.
[55:39.370 --> 55:41.110]  And I looked up that very flight.
[55:41.150 --> 55:41.710]  Is it direct?
[55:42.290 --> 55:43.310]  It's like one stop.
[55:43.490 --> 55:44.310]  But most planes are.
[55:44.310 --> 55:47.050]  So I looked it up on the website on that very airline.
[55:47.090 --> 55:48.110]  And it's $2,100.
[55:48.910 --> 55:49.630]  It's unbelievable.
[55:50.250 --> 55:51.750]  And that's how the airline industry works.
[55:51.850 --> 55:53.690]  They charge you as much as they possibly can.
[55:53.730 --> 55:55.230]  They don't want open seats.
[55:55.430 --> 55:58.870]  And they will sell you a seat up until it's a point where they take off.
[55:59.070 --> 55:59.230]  Yeah.
[55:59.850 --> 56:03.170]  Depends on how much they would be willing to gouge you.
[56:03.290 --> 56:04.350]  But they won't do it themselves.
[56:04.370 --> 56:07.190]  You can't call them and say, how much can I get on this flight for?
[56:07.330 --> 56:08.850]  And they won't give you anything for that.
[56:08.850 --> 56:10.590]  But if Priceline lets you...
[56:10.590 --> 56:13.530]  Of course, I'll report on how well it went last week...
[56:13.530 --> 56:14.130]  Next week, rather.
[56:14.270 --> 56:16.450]  I'll let you know if there are any snafus.
[56:17.010 --> 56:17.970]  But we'll see.
[56:18.290 --> 56:18.790]  Good evening.
[56:18.830 --> 56:19.290]  You're on the air.
[56:20.490 --> 56:20.890]  Hi.
[56:20.890 --> 56:21.650]  It's Mr. Om.
[56:21.730 --> 56:24.830]  I've returned from Spain with an interesting piece of information.
[56:24.970 --> 56:27.190]  We didn't know you were in Spain, but welcome back.
[56:29.890 --> 56:35.930]  I found out that blue boxing works in Spain, at least in the countryside where I was.
[56:36.110 --> 56:38.810]  Yeah, there's a lot of in-band signaling going on in other countries.
[56:39.290 --> 56:39.570]  Yeah.
[56:40.930 --> 56:51.330]  I actually wanted to try it out because I found out that Spain's long-distance system was the same as ours about 20 years ago.
[56:51.570 --> 56:56.250]  I'm not sure if it worked in a big city because I didn't try it there, but it worked in the countryside.
[56:56.250 --> 56:59.930]  Did you get a chance to talk to Bill SF when he was in for H2K?
[57:00.230 --> 57:02.010]  I believe extremely briefly.
[57:02.370 --> 57:03.730]  Yeah, because you could learn a lot from him.
[57:03.970 --> 57:09.550]  And he knows basically the history of every single country and what kind of switching system they have and their vulnerabilities.
[57:10.370 --> 57:10.610]  Yeah.
[57:10.850 --> 57:12.510]  But, yeah, it's very true.
[57:12.510 --> 57:14.850]  In Spain and many other countries, you can do things like that.
[57:14.990 --> 57:15.190]  Yeah.
[57:16.630 --> 57:20.190]  And I tried to listen to Off the Hook via shortwave.
[57:20.550 --> 57:21.030]  Uh-huh.
[57:21.210 --> 57:23.650]  And I got some buzzing.
[57:24.010 --> 57:24.290]  Uh-huh.
[57:25.350 --> 57:26.590]  Well, yeah, you got us, Dennis.
[57:27.070 --> 57:27.250]  Yeah.
[57:28.850 --> 57:30.850]  And I found out about the verdict.
[57:31.270 --> 57:31.930]  Yeah, yeah.
[57:32.210 --> 57:34.750]  Well, if you heard the same news as us, then you know how we feel.
[57:35.050 --> 57:35.290]  Yep.
[57:36.950 --> 57:42.290]  And I was in an internet cafe and I was dehydrated, so I guess I kind of fainted.
[57:42.470 --> 57:44.050]  You fainted in an internet cafe?
[57:44.570 --> 57:46.910]  Well, I don't know if you could qualify as fainted.
[57:46.950 --> 57:48.670]  I think it was more of a sudden blackout.
[57:49.230 --> 57:49.930]  That's a faint.
[57:50.150 --> 57:50.850]  That's fainting.
[57:51.010 --> 57:51.830]  Blackout's a fainting, right?
[57:51.830 --> 57:55.090]  I'm not sure if it was the verdict or just being severely dehydrated, but...
[57:55.090 --> 57:56.310]  That must have made a great picture.
[57:56.670 --> 57:57.150]  Yeah, yeah.
[57:57.570 --> 58:00.670]  Like, just, like, sort of drooped over a computer, you know?
[58:01.390 --> 58:01.790]  Yeah.
[58:02.130 --> 58:02.410]  Wow.
[58:02.670 --> 58:03.310]  Are you okay now?
[58:03.550 --> 58:04.450]  Oh, I'm fine now.
[58:04.510 --> 58:04.830]  All right.
[58:05.090 --> 58:09.450]  Well, welcome back to New York, and hopefully we'll hear more tidbits from Spain.
[58:09.670 --> 58:10.070]  Oh, yes.
[58:10.350 --> 58:10.550]  All right.
[58:10.550 --> 58:11.410]  Very interesting stuff.
[58:11.590 --> 58:12.030]  Okay, great.
[58:12.090 --> 58:12.310]  Okay.
[58:12.450 --> 58:12.970]  Thanks for calling.
[58:13.230 --> 58:13.570]  No problem.
[58:19.530 --> 58:20.250]  Hello?
[58:20.530 --> 58:20.990]  Yes, go ahead.
[58:21.790 --> 58:22.110]  Okay.
[58:22.430 --> 58:28.650]  The Weepo site for recent decisions is arbiter.weepo.int.
[58:28.970 --> 58:38.090]  Not only do you have the thrill of typing in .int, but you can get to see decisions like Tata Group versus bodacioustatas.com.
[58:41.610 --> 58:51.150]  Unfortunately, bodacioustatas.com got their domain canceled because Tata Group is well-known throughout, apparently, India and the rest of the world there.
[58:52.690 --> 58:55.290]  It's quite an interesting assortment of decisions.
[58:55.610 --> 58:56.650]  This is really crazy.
[58:57.470 --> 59:04.390]  Also, PETA.org also lost their domain to people for the ethical treatment of animals, although there had been a...
[59:04.390 --> 59:05.610]  I didn't leave it to them.
[59:05.770 --> 59:06.190]  Wait a minute.
[59:06.230 --> 59:06.410]  Hold on.
[59:06.450 --> 59:07.090]  Who had it before?
[59:07.230 --> 59:08.010]  Who else is a PETA?
[59:08.830 --> 59:10.210]  People eating tasty animals.
[59:10.450 --> 59:11.470]  Oh, please.
[59:11.950 --> 59:12.230]  Delicious.
[59:12.750 --> 59:15.890]  You see, now, that's obviously a case of just, like, goading somebody.
[59:16.210 --> 59:16.630]  That's right.
[59:16.630 --> 59:17.510]  No question about it.
[59:18.110 --> 59:18.510]  Wow.
[59:19.290 --> 59:20.550]  People eating tasty animals.
[59:20.850 --> 59:22.590]  Well, NatWest also lost their domain to NatWest.
[59:22.890 --> 59:23.630]  You know, I heard about this.
[59:24.070 --> 59:25.090]  It's a Canadian one?
[59:26.390 --> 59:26.790]  What?
[59:26.890 --> 59:27.290]  NatWest?
[59:27.510 --> 59:28.950]  No, you know, I heard something in Canada.
[59:29.090 --> 59:33.850]  It might have been, like, Home Depot Canada or something like that, or Kmart Canada, or Walmart Canada sucks.
[59:34.030 --> 59:37.050]  One of those, they lost theirs to the organization.
[59:38.070 --> 59:38.730]  NatWest sucks.
[59:38.910 --> 59:39.350]  They lost that to...
[59:39.350 --> 59:39.850]  NatWest sucks.
[59:40.010 --> 59:43.010]  NatWest is based in England, and, yes, that is now belonging to NatWest.
[59:43.170 --> 59:44.730]  How did they justify that?
[59:44.830 --> 59:46.330]  That means we could lose Verizon really sucks.
[59:46.330 --> 59:47.470]  You probably will lose it.
[59:48.270 --> 59:49.230]  I want to know...
[59:49.230 --> 59:50.330]  No, what I want to know is...
[59:50.330 --> 59:51.110]  As long as they're smart enough to bring it to a Wi-Fi.
[59:51.310 --> 59:57.130]  Why can't VerizonSucks.com be lost because they're not using it to say Verizon sucks?
[59:57.610 --> 59:58.630]  Doesn't that make more sense?
[59:58.630 --> 59:59.910]  A lot more to me.
[01:00:00.630 --> 01:00:01.290]  I'm sorry, what?
[01:00:01.610 --> 01:00:02.430]  They own the trademark.
[01:00:03.430 --> 01:00:04.070]  To sucks?
[01:00:04.110 --> 01:00:05.590]  That's curious to be what the decisions are based on.
[01:00:05.650 --> 01:00:07.210]  Yeah, but they don't own the trademark to the word sucks.
[01:00:07.310 --> 01:00:08.710]  But it's not confusingly similar.
[01:00:09.250 --> 01:00:11.410]  I would trademark sucks, and you can sue them.
[01:00:11.530 --> 01:00:15.150]  Yeah, but I think somebody probably already has trademarked the word sucks, and I'd like to know who.
[01:00:15.530 --> 01:00:15.870]  Yeah.
[01:00:16.150 --> 01:00:19.030]  I'm sure somebody has that, but we're out of time.
[01:00:19.130 --> 01:00:23.110]  We can't, unfortunately, discuss this any longer, but that's an ominous development.
[01:00:23.470 --> 01:00:24.910]  I'm sure we'll be following it in the future.
[01:00:25.490 --> 01:00:28.790]  Guys, I want to thank you for being around and for being on the show.
[01:00:29.310 --> 01:00:38.090]  We'll be back again next week with more news as to how the screening went out in San Diego and Los Angeles, and probably have more information on the lawsuit and the appeal by then.
[01:00:38.270 --> 01:00:39.170]  Meeting Friday, CityCorp.
[01:00:39.330 --> 01:00:39.590]  That's right.
[01:00:39.710 --> 01:00:40.030]  Five o'clock.
[01:00:40.210 --> 01:00:40.970]  Friday all over the place.
[01:00:41.110 --> 01:00:41.150]  All over.
[01:00:41.150 --> 01:00:44.110]  Look in the back of 2600 for your local meeting.
[01:00:44.890 --> 01:00:45.750]  We'll see you again next week.
[01:00:45.830 --> 01:00:46.010]  Good night.
[01:00:46.390 --> 01:00:46.450]  Good night.
[01:00:54.030 --> 01:00:54.730]  Bye.