[00:40.360 --> 00:41.920]  Moorish.
[00:43.320 --> 00:44.280]  Orthodox.
[00:45.800 --> 00:46.760]  Radio.
[00:48.300 --> 00:49.260]  Crusade.
[00:51.380 --> 00:53.500]  Anarchism for the global city.
[00:53.980 --> 00:57.040]  Radical environmentalism for the concrete jungle.
[00:57.720 --> 01:01.660]  Esoteric explorations of the secret history of rebel culture.
[01:02.020 --> 01:04.920]  The Moorish Orthodox Radio Crusade.
[01:04.920 --> 01:07.780]  Every Tuesday at midnight after the news.
[01:08.100 --> 01:14.920]  Only on listener-supported, non-commercial WBAI 99.5 FM in New York City.
[01:16.480 --> 01:17.460]  Be there.
[01:28.640 --> 01:33.280]  And that's on tonight, right after the news here on WBAI in New York.
[01:33.480 --> 01:35.820]  Right now, though, it's only 8 o'clock in the evening.
[01:36.040 --> 01:38.660]  Still rather early and still time for Off the Hook.
[01:51.270 --> 01:53.290]  I caught myself while shaving.
[01:53.830 --> 01:54.390]  Now
[02:01.600 --> 02:04.240]  I'm really bombed, but I best expect the worst.
[02:04.860 --> 02:06.820]  I hope that's understood.
[02:07.260 --> 02:08.000]  But I'm really bombed.
[03:04.550 --> 03:05.950]  CD player didn't work.
[03:08.230 --> 03:09.210]  Ah, there it goes.
[03:10.270 --> 03:10.770]  Unbelievable.
[03:11.110 --> 03:11.410]  Unbelievable.
[03:11.990 --> 03:14.870]  You know, if you count on technology to work, it just doesn't work.
[03:14.870 --> 03:17.690]  You know, we tested it beforehand, and it worked fine.
[03:18.830 --> 03:19.590]  Now we need it.
[03:20.910 --> 03:22.130]  Well, the effect's ruined now.
[03:49.600 --> 03:51.180]  Had that planned all the way in, you know.
[03:51.600 --> 03:54.920]  Had the intro to the show all ready to go, and the whole thing got ruined.
[03:55.080 --> 03:55.680]  Well, it's not ruined.
[03:56.120 --> 03:56.640]  No, it's ruined.
[03:56.800 --> 03:57.080]  It's over.
[03:57.320 --> 03:57.840]  No, it's over.
[03:58.600 --> 04:00.000]  We've got to move on to the rest of the show.
[04:00.360 --> 04:01.100]  Would have been cool.
[04:01.940 --> 04:03.680]  But, yeah, made it in time this week.
[04:03.960 --> 04:05.160]  Left the house at 11 a.m.
[04:05.240 --> 04:05.920]  just to make sure.
[04:06.140 --> 04:06.700]  Well, it's raining.
[04:06.820 --> 04:07.840]  You have to take that into account.
[04:07.840 --> 04:08.800]  Well, that's just it.
[04:08.820 --> 04:10.640]  When I woke up and I saw it was raining, and you...
[04:10.640 --> 04:11.840]  Gotta leave now.
[04:12.100 --> 04:14.760]  Yeah, you can't take any chances with New York traffic.
[04:14.940 --> 04:17.260]  So, yeah, bright and early, no problems.
[04:17.600 --> 04:19.560]  And what a show we have tonight.
[04:19.740 --> 04:26.520]  We have all kinds of news items and listener mail, and, of course, more listener feedback for people to call in.
[04:26.560 --> 04:28.020]  Not the high-pitched, squeaky kind.
[04:28.260 --> 04:29.240]  No, please.
[04:29.520 --> 04:29.940]  None of that.
[04:30.340 --> 04:31.340]  High-pitched, squeaky kind.
[04:31.340 --> 04:32.920]  When you call, please turn off your radio.
[04:33.820 --> 04:35.300]  Anything happening in your realm?
[04:35.760 --> 04:37.500]  Well, I'm bearing down on Florida.
[04:37.980 --> 04:38.340]  Evidently.
[04:38.620 --> 04:39.300]  Oh, the hurricane.
[04:39.500 --> 04:41.920]  Yeah, well, Hurricane Isaac, I think, is going to be kind of wimpy.
[04:42.140 --> 04:42.500]  Oh.
[04:42.500 --> 04:44.100]  But it was fading out before it even began.
[04:44.320 --> 04:44.700]  Oh, okay.
[04:44.820 --> 04:47.700]  Well, you know, it's a deal, because people are getting nervous.
[04:47.920 --> 04:49.100]  Plus, it's spelled with an S.
[04:49.280 --> 04:50.660]  Your Isaac is spelled with a Z.
[04:51.160 --> 04:51.920]  But that's okay.
[04:52.360 --> 04:54.420]  Those Noah guys, they got a lot on their minds.
[04:54.580 --> 04:55.780]  Sometimes they don't get the spellings right.
[04:56.300 --> 04:56.460]  Yeah.
[04:56.500 --> 05:00.120]  But I promise to stay away from the Cape.
[05:00.600 --> 05:04.100]  Other than the weather, anything else going on?
[05:04.100 --> 05:05.820]  Uh, not really.
[05:05.920 --> 05:06.820]  Just kind of doing my thing.
[05:08.360 --> 05:09.980]  One day you'll tell us what that is, I hope.
[05:12.040 --> 05:12.600]  We'll see.
[05:14.080 --> 05:15.540]  Because, you know, a lot of people ask me.
[05:16.460 --> 05:17.940]  What the heck does he do, anyway?
[05:18.160 --> 05:19.100]  I really don't know what to tell them.
[05:19.280 --> 05:19.520]  Okay.
[05:20.240 --> 05:20.700]  All right.
[05:20.780 --> 05:22.360]  Any, uh, anything coming up this week?
[05:22.480 --> 05:22.880]  Any events?
[05:23.000 --> 05:23.960]  Any, uh, conferences?
[05:24.380 --> 05:24.740]  Meetings?
[05:24.900 --> 05:26.340]  There's no 22nd meeting this week, right?
[05:26.460 --> 05:27.120]  Not this week.
[05:27.380 --> 05:27.480]  Okay.
[05:27.920 --> 05:31.680]  This is, this is now, uh, is this week one or week two of the Rebel ban?
[05:32.140 --> 05:33.160]  Oh, we're going to talk about that?
[05:33.220 --> 05:33.440]  Okay.
[05:33.680 --> 05:36.060]  Uh, well, we had a meeting after the show last week.
[05:36.160 --> 05:38.660]  In fact, we even had an independent arbitrator come in.
[05:39.160 --> 05:40.220]  Thanks, Mike, the bartender.
[05:40.740 --> 05:48.500]  Uh, who, uh, who pretty much also confirmed that that that was, in fact, Rebel's voice that called in violation of the three-month ban.
[05:49.160 --> 05:50.600]  So, it was three months, right?
[05:50.860 --> 05:51.500]  Three months ban.
[05:51.500 --> 05:54.980]  Yeah, so now, as a result of that violation, it becomes four weeks.
[05:55.180 --> 05:56.960]  Four, four months total.
[05:57.400 --> 05:57.700]  Mm-hmm.
[05:58.240 --> 05:58.960]  Four months total.
[05:59.160 --> 06:04.180]  Which places the first show that he can call in on at the 16th of January.
[06:04.360 --> 06:04.760]  2001.
[06:05.160 --> 06:05.380]  2001.
[06:06.960 --> 06:08.260]  I didn't want to go that route.
[06:08.360 --> 06:08.900]  I really didn't.
[06:09.020 --> 06:12.140]  And, you know, we, we've had some, uh, some feedback on that.
[06:12.280 --> 06:13.000]  Quite a lot, actually.
[06:13.200 --> 06:13.340]  Oh?
[06:13.520 --> 06:15.560]  I brought a couple of samples in with me.
[06:15.880 --> 06:16.740]  Well, you see, here's the thing.
[06:17.740 --> 06:20.900]  Whenever people write, I always try to bring a sample from each side.
[06:21.080 --> 06:21.300]  Mm-hmm.
[06:21.300 --> 06:22.620]  You know, a negative and a positive.
[06:23.300 --> 06:25.440]  And, uh, in this case, there is so much positive.
[06:26.860 --> 06:28.340]  Well, which side is positive?
[06:28.900 --> 06:31.080]  Um, in support of...
[06:31.080 --> 06:31.720]  Of the band.
[06:31.720 --> 06:32.200]  Of the band, yes.
[06:32.420 --> 06:33.820]  And, and there's only one negative.
[06:34.140 --> 06:39.300]  So, but the thing is, I'm going to read one positive and one negative, so it'll seem as if it's equally weighted, but it really isn't.
[06:39.540 --> 06:39.660]  Okay.
[06:39.660 --> 06:43.420]  It's like when I read the DVD letter last week, you know, the person that said we were all...
[06:43.420 --> 06:44.080]  One in a crowd.
[06:44.260 --> 06:44.400]  Yeah.
[06:45.020 --> 06:49.420]  So, uh, you have to, you have to give the other side airtime.
[06:49.620 --> 06:56.400]  I, I believe in doing that, but sometimes that results in the impression that the other side is more populous than it really is.
[06:56.540 --> 07:05.180]  So, I just wanted to make that clear that we only got one letter and, uh, we got all kinds of email, a telegram, one telegram.
[07:05.280 --> 07:05.740]  A telegram?
[07:05.860 --> 07:05.960]  Yeah.
[07:06.180 --> 07:06.380]  Singing?
[07:06.520 --> 07:06.660]  Flowers.
[07:07.020 --> 07:08.220]  Did you see the flowers out front?
[07:08.480 --> 07:09.360]  No, I missed the flowers.
[07:09.480 --> 07:21.680]  People are so appreciative of this band, apparently, because this is not, this is not something that's been going, you know, the, the people who were around from the beginning, from when we first started doing our shows back in the late eighties and throughout the early nineties,
[07:21.820 --> 07:32.820]  they, they know, you know, the kinds of things that any rebels called virtually every show, look at the, on the internet and you'll see, you know, back when the show was only broadcast in New York, uh, his, his voice was, was the there too.
[07:33.460 --> 07:35.640]  It's just kind of nice to have a breather for a little while.
[07:36.440 --> 07:36.740]  All right.
[07:38.220 --> 07:41.800]  Uh, dear off the hook, I started listening to all broadcasts for the first time, literally yesterday.
[07:41.860 --> 07:46.140]  I kept seeing references to some guy named rebel in the descriptions, not knowing who this person was.
[07:46.520 --> 07:47.360]  All was clear.
[07:47.540 --> 07:53.300]  Two seconds after hearing his voice, I called the 2600 voice PBS a few times way back in 93.
[07:53.580 --> 07:55.840]  And remember this guy spouting inane crap endlessly.
[07:56.520 --> 08:01.280]  It was annoying then and could have been that much more annoying knowing he could pop up on off the hook at any time.
[08:02.580 --> 08:06.300]  Listening live for the first time tonight, I was very pleased to hear you ban rebel for a few months.
[08:06.420 --> 08:06.840]  Good job.
[08:07.520 --> 08:08.480]  Love the show, by the way.
[08:08.680 --> 08:09.380]  Keep up the good work.
[08:10.660 --> 08:12.240]  And that comes from, uh, from Eddie.
[08:13.020 --> 08:14.380]  Thank you very much for, uh, for that letter, Eddie.
[08:14.800 --> 08:16.320]  Now, uh, here's a letter from Julia.
[08:16.540 --> 08:17.920]  This is the rebel support letter.
[08:18.460 --> 08:22.920]  Well, I wouldn't say necessarily support, just, uh, you know, condemning us.
[08:23.000 --> 08:23.820]  Critical of the ban.
[08:23.820 --> 08:24.220]  Okay.
[08:24.680 --> 08:28.640]  I'm writing to express my disappointment that you banned rebel from calling off the hook the other night.
[08:28.780 --> 08:31.600]  He may be annoying, but he's not disruptive or unruly.
[08:31.740 --> 08:39.280]  It doesn't seem to be in the hacker spirit of liberty and inclusion to ban someone just because they have qualities that might make someone comfortable, which could be said about all of us.
[08:39.840 --> 08:40.480]  You know what?
[08:40.480 --> 08:41.520]  I, I, that's not bad.
[08:41.620 --> 08:42.100]  That's not bad.
[08:42.180 --> 08:43.200]  That's a reasonable argument.
[08:43.220 --> 08:45.360]  It would be, it would be even better if it was true.
[08:45.540 --> 08:46.220]  It's not.
[08:46.760 --> 08:52.880]  The problem, rebel was not banned for being annoying, for having a high pitched whiny voice or for, you know, saying a name crap.
[08:53.100 --> 09:08.080]  He was banned because he was, he was basically calling my phone during the show and disrupting the show in that way and calling my phone while I was driving to the show in pouring rain on the FDR drive last week, putting my life and Lynn at, at risk.
[09:08.080 --> 09:16.620]  In fact, out in Suffolk County, which is where I am, they are considering a ban on driving with cell phones.
[09:17.080 --> 09:19.120]  Unless you have the, the hands-free kit.
[09:19.260 --> 09:20.040]  Here's the interesting thing.
[09:20.220 --> 09:26.160]  Verizon today broke with the entire industry and supported the ban, supported the ban.
[09:26.460 --> 09:33.000]  Now I have to wonder, do you think Verizon has a line of products that allow you to have hands-free operation cell phones?
[09:33.100 --> 09:34.960]  I think that's probably what this is going to be.
[09:34.960 --> 09:38.280]  20 bucks a handset and I think they caught on.
[09:38.480 --> 09:38.620]  Yeah.
[09:38.900 --> 09:41.220]  Watch the other suppliers catch on pretty quick today.
[09:41.220 --> 09:45.480]  They now say, yes, it should be illegal for someone to drive with a cell phone in their hands.
[09:46.060 --> 09:47.340]  And we have the solution to that.
[09:47.800 --> 09:48.680]  Just buy from us.
[09:48.940 --> 09:49.540]  I don't know.
[09:49.580 --> 09:50.860]  I don't support that kind of legislation.
[09:51.100 --> 09:54.260]  I mean, I support common sense, but you can't legislate everything away, you know?
[09:54.460 --> 09:55.220]  You really can't.
[09:55.220 --> 09:57.060]  People should wear seatbelts because it's safe.
[09:57.420 --> 10:00.880]  They, they shouldn't wear it because if you don't wear it, you're going to get a fine.
[10:00.880 --> 10:07.640]  And, you know, all these, all these rules that we have on how you can walk down the street virtually, it's, it's, it's insane.
[10:07.880 --> 10:08.160]  Wow.
[10:08.420 --> 10:13.980]  No, if only, if only you would apply that logic to some of the other arguments we had, we'd get along a whole lot better.
[10:14.120 --> 10:17.540]  Well, I don't think you'll find me in support of extra laws.
[10:17.660 --> 10:21.080]  In fact, I don't think the internet should be regulated at all by the outside world.
[10:21.080 --> 10:22.400]  I think it should be regulated from within.
[10:23.020 --> 10:24.180]  And I've always thought that.
[10:24.480 --> 10:27.220]  So, uh, I don't know if you just haven't been listening or what, but, uh...
[10:27.220 --> 10:28.460]  Oh, no, no, I'm not disagreeing with you.
[10:28.580 --> 10:32.600]  The net is something I think that is, you know, sacred and should be, uh...
[10:32.600 --> 10:32.960]  Not sacred.
[10:33.060 --> 10:33.580]  ...held apart.
[10:33.860 --> 10:34.320]  Oh, absolutely.
[10:34.500 --> 10:36.260]  Compared to the rest of society, I think it is.
[10:36.380 --> 10:37.360]  It's just optimal.
[10:37.700 --> 10:40.360]  It performs optimally in the sort of situation...
[10:40.360 --> 10:42.300]  Well, it, it operates without borders.
[10:42.640 --> 10:42.820]  Yes.
[10:42.860 --> 10:50.540]  And it operates, at least it did for a while, without, uh, you know, national, uh, entities getting their, their, you know, hands into it.
[10:50.580 --> 10:53.280]  Or international entities, or non, not quite existent entities.
[10:53.580 --> 10:54.140]  Yeah, well...
[10:54.140 --> 10:54.860]  ...that appear out of nowhere.
[10:55.420 --> 10:59.920]  Just entities that want to control the whole thing and, and, and tell people what they can and cannot do.
[11:00.200 --> 11:00.560]  I can.
[11:01.100 --> 11:10.880]  Well, the thing that, and the scary thing about international entities, and, and you've seen that in, in, in Prague today, people demonstrating against IMF and that kind of thing, uh, basically it's very insidious.
[11:11.020 --> 11:12.900]  It happens without you realizing it.
[11:12.920 --> 11:25.780]  All of a sudden, yeah, the, the, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, uh, was passed in America, and somehow it also applies to, uh, to Norway, and to Holland, and to England, because there are all these little treaties that got signed behind closed doors that,
[11:25.780 --> 11:31.120]  uh, basically make the law apply over there as well, exactly the same way as it does here, and then there's nothing you can do about it.
[11:31.320 --> 11:33.580]  So you have to stay awake while these things are happening.
[11:34.220 --> 11:35.340]  Otherwise, it's too late.
[11:36.580 --> 11:39.280]  So, uh, that's something on that.
[11:39.380 --> 11:51.400]  Now, uh, a bit of news, uh, hear about this, the, uh, the kid in Florida, 16-year-old from Miami, who repeatedly penetrated computer systems of the Defense Department, and the Space Agency has been sentenced to six months in juvenile detention.
[11:51.680 --> 11:56.100]  The Justice Department said he is the first juvenile hacker to be sentenced to serve time.
[11:56.320 --> 11:56.420]  Hmm.
[11:56.940 --> 12:00.100]  Uh, the youth, uh, who is named here is Jonathan James.
[12:00.720 --> 12:01.620]  You can't give his name.
[12:01.800 --> 12:03.220]  Yeah, I'm wondering why they're disclosing this.
[12:03.220 --> 12:05.280]  Well, actually, the New York Times explains this in a second.
[12:05.460 --> 12:10.440]  Um, he pleaded guilty in federal court in Miami on Thursday to two counts of juvenile delinquency.
[12:10.440 --> 12:18.940]  Had his crimes been committed by an adult, uh, they would have constituted felonies and drawn a sentence of ten years or more.
[12:19.280 --> 12:20.800]  That's according to Assistant U.S.
[12:21.040 --> 12:22.840]  Attorney Richard Boscovich.
[12:23.760 --> 12:28.280]  Uh, Attorney General Janet Reno and the United States Attorney Guy A.
[12:28.520 --> 12:32.320]  Lewis issued statements signaling a tougher stance.
[12:32.680 --> 12:34.460]  Dude, they haven't been tough enough, Isaac.
[12:34.760 --> 12:35.600]  No, not at all.
[12:35.680 --> 12:36.980]  Five years for Kevin Mitnick.
[12:37.360 --> 12:38.940]  You know, it hasn't been tough.
[12:38.940 --> 12:42.720]  Obviously, it's not working, so they have to get tougher, build more prisons, put people in prison longer.
[12:43.200 --> 12:48.660]  Um, a tougher stance toward young computer intruders whose deeds might once have been deemed pranks.
[12:49.440 --> 12:50.880]  Now, here's the thing I don't get.
[12:51.080 --> 12:54.720]  Okay, if they were once pranks, then how come they're not pranks now?
[12:55.000 --> 12:56.320]  I mean, they haven't changed.
[12:56.440 --> 12:59.960]  Something else has changed that makes pranks into crimes, you know?
[13:00.260 --> 13:02.860]  There's still pranks in the eyes of the people who pull the pranks, you see.
[13:03.380 --> 13:05.560]  Press Shift F4 and you'll figure it out.
[13:06.280 --> 13:07.420]  Uh, Shift 4, rather.
[13:07.600 --> 13:08.200]  Shift 4?
[13:08.820 --> 13:09.680]  You mean Alt?
[13:09.900 --> 13:10.660]  Alt F4?
[13:10.860 --> 13:11.300]  No, no, no.
[13:11.380 --> 13:12.640]  Shift and the number 4.
[13:12.900 --> 13:13.620]  Shift and the number 4.
[13:13.840 --> 13:14.700]  Is that a pound sign?
[13:14.800 --> 13:15.420]  No, it's a dollar sign.
[13:15.420 --> 13:15.960]  That's a dollar sign.
[13:15.960 --> 13:16.420]  Dollar sign.
[13:16.560 --> 13:16.800]  Yes.
[13:17.260 --> 13:20.600]  Oh, this is like an anti-capitalist rap of yours.
[13:20.600 --> 13:22.280]  No, it's not an anti-capitalist rap.
[13:22.440 --> 13:23.520]  I'm just saying that's what's changed.
[13:23.540 --> 13:25.220]  Keep the socialist talk until after the show.
[13:25.700 --> 13:26.060]  Oy.
[13:27.040 --> 13:27.440]  All right.
[13:29.400 --> 13:36.440]  Anyway, breaking into someone else's property, whether it is a robbery or a computer intrusion, is a serious crime, Ms. Reno said.
[13:36.600 --> 13:41.580]  We take computer intrusions seriously and are working with our law enforcement partners to understand what it means.
[13:42.380 --> 13:44.640]  No, actually, she said to aggressively fight this problem.
[13:44.640 --> 13:47.960]  But she might as well have said that because she doesn't understand what it means.
[13:48.200 --> 13:50.880]  You know, breaking into someone's property, it's not the same thing.
[13:50.980 --> 13:51.820]  It's not the same thing.
[13:51.920 --> 13:53.200]  You break into someone's house and you steal something.
[13:53.460 --> 13:54.360]  It's totally different.
[13:54.460 --> 13:56.000]  That's what we've been saying for years.
[13:56.880 --> 13:59.040]  These people just can't seem to get it through their heads.
[14:00.040 --> 14:04.360]  Mr. Lewis said the case marks a turning point for dealing with juvenile computer crime, at least in South Florida.
[14:05.120 --> 14:09.160]  Given the appropriate case, we will aggressively prosecute to the full extent of the law.
[14:09.580 --> 14:15.900]  As a juvenile defendant, Jonathan James might have remained anonymous, best known for his internet name of Comrade, with a capital O.
[14:16.520 --> 14:22.060]  But the youth's father, named Robert, a computer systems analyst, disclosed his son's name after the guilty plea.
[14:22.260 --> 14:26.120]  The father said that he wanted people to have an accurate picture of his son and his misdeeds.
[14:27.760 --> 14:29.340]  I've been in computers for 20 years.
[14:29.440 --> 14:29.920]  Now listen to this.
[14:30.080 --> 14:31.300]  I've been in computers for 20 years.
[14:31.300 --> 14:31.880]  This is his father.
[14:32.020 --> 14:32.220]  Yes.
[14:32.340 --> 14:32.460]  Okay.
[14:32.780 --> 14:34.940]  I've been in computers for 20 years and I can't do what he was doing.
[14:35.360 --> 14:39.400]  Mr. James said in an interview with the Miami Herald, he didn't do anything destructive.
[14:39.680 --> 14:46.420]  Now, how many times have we heard almost the exact same thing coming from parents or from people who know these kids didn't do anything destructive?
[14:46.600 --> 14:47.940]  Well, what exactly did he do?
[14:48.080 --> 14:49.820]  Why isn't that ever discussed in these articles?
[14:50.000 --> 14:55.820]  Instead, you hear Janet Reno saying, yeah, he, you know, basically broke into someone's property and caused damage.
[14:56.000 --> 15:03.580]  According to this, it cost NASA $40,000 in labor and replacement costs to track him down.
[15:03.800 --> 15:07.540]  There was no chance of rockets being launched or satellites being thrown out of orbit.
[15:08.560 --> 15:12.320]  That's what they say it cost them to figure out what was going on.
[15:12.760 --> 15:13.460]  Now, I don't know.
[15:14.080 --> 15:25.220]  If that is true, and if you want to believe whatever it is they say, and usually they don't have to back it up in any way, then you have the guy pay that cost over however much time it takes to, you know, to cover the cost.
[15:25.340 --> 15:27.560]  But what is served by sending someone away to prison?
[15:28.080 --> 15:29.860]  You know, I don't think that has ever helped.
[15:30.580 --> 15:34.540]  And it's, unfortunately, it seems to be the answer to every single problem we have in this country.
[15:34.540 --> 15:42.680]  I'm waiting for someone to get sentenced to prison for jaywalking, you know, or just, you know, something, something very, very minor.
[15:42.860 --> 15:44.840]  Or, you know, it's not considered minor.
[15:45.060 --> 15:45.980]  It was a prank today.
[15:46.300 --> 15:47.360]  It's a crime tomorrow.
[15:49.900 --> 15:51.020]  So, I don't know.
[15:52.060 --> 15:53.480]  Do you think that's an appropriate sentence?
[15:55.920 --> 15:56.600]  You're speechless.
[15:56.780 --> 15:59.360]  No, I don't think it...
[15:59.360 --> 15:59.860]  Well, maybe.
[16:00.240 --> 16:00.780]  It depends.
[16:00.880 --> 16:03.980]  I don't know enough about the case to weigh in.
[16:03.980 --> 16:04.680]  Well, but who does?
[16:04.800 --> 16:06.060]  Who does know enough about the case?
[16:06.220 --> 16:08.740]  I would hope that the jury that sentenced him does.
[16:08.940 --> 16:09.780]  I don't know if there was a jury.
[16:09.780 --> 16:10.120]  And the judge.
[16:10.520 --> 16:10.640]  Oh.
[16:11.080 --> 16:11.920]  Yeah, there's no jury.
[16:13.280 --> 16:14.220]  I didn't even know.
[16:14.320 --> 16:15.020]  What court is it in?
[16:15.740 --> 16:16.660]  Somewhere in South Florida.
[16:16.800 --> 16:17.580]  It was federal, though.
[16:18.080 --> 16:18.720]  Okay, well...
[16:18.720 --> 16:21.860]  It just, it seems like that is the default reaction instead of trying to...
[16:21.860 --> 16:23.940]  I mean, you know, I went through this, too, you know, when I was younger.
[16:24.560 --> 16:32.340]  And, yeah, they said I could have gone to jail for 55 years, which I knew was ridiculous because, basically, it was typing a couple of characters on a keyboard and not doing any damage.
[16:32.720 --> 16:42.160]  Uh, and eventually it worked out so that they were saying the same thing and, you know, it paid for the computer time, whatever it cost them to figure out who it was.
[16:42.420 --> 16:43.180]  And that was it.
[16:44.000 --> 16:44.860]  And, guess what?
[16:44.900 --> 16:45.480]  It didn't happen again.
[16:45.480 --> 16:50.260]  Of course, I did put out a magazine from the enemy of the state that I am, but, uh...
[16:50.260 --> 16:51.920]  Which had its most recent issue go out?
[16:52.180 --> 16:53.300]  Uh, it hasn't gone out yet.
[16:53.340 --> 16:53.840]  Hasn't gone out yet.
[16:53.840 --> 16:54.740]  It's at the printer.
[16:55.060 --> 16:57.500]  I think it might be in the process of being mailed.
[16:57.720 --> 16:58.520]  As we speak.
[16:58.720 --> 16:58.880]  Yeah.
[16:59.240 --> 16:59.520]  Ooh.
[16:59.740 --> 17:00.600]  Yeah, something like that.
[17:02.720 --> 17:03.400]  All right, Shana?
[17:03.500 --> 17:03.740]  Hi.
[17:04.140 --> 17:06.840]  Um, I just have a quick question, though.
[17:07.020 --> 17:10.380]  For you, why did you do what you did, though?
[17:10.620 --> 17:12.100]  You did it for knowledge, yes?
[17:12.620 --> 17:16.660]  Uh, why did I hack into NASA back in the early 80s?
[17:16.780 --> 17:17.000]  Yes.
[17:17.160 --> 17:18.680]  Uh, well, actually, two reasons.
[17:19.080 --> 17:20.920]  Or because their passwords were stupid, right?
[17:20.920 --> 17:21.740]  Well, their passwords were stupid.
[17:22.000 --> 17:23.720]  It was a single letter was the password.
[17:24.240 --> 17:26.420]  Um, but, uh, it was curiosity.
[17:26.420 --> 17:30.620]  It was to, you know, because back then there was no internet as we know it.
[17:30.620 --> 17:36.960]  Email did not exist except on bulletin boards where you had to wait for busy signals to stop and, yeah, you did.
[17:37.140 --> 17:38.060]  You had a UCP mail.
[17:38.060 --> 17:42.200]  You didn't even have, you know, that, that, uh, call waiting on busy, whatever they call that.
[17:42.340 --> 17:43.840]  You had to keep dialing over and over and over again.
[17:44.040 --> 17:44.180]  Right.
[17:44.440 --> 17:50.440]  And, and you could only send mail on that one system that, you know, unless you had something called FidoNet, you couldn't, you couldn't send to more than one.
[17:50.640 --> 18:02.620]  So, to actually call into this thing from a local phone number, which was my undoing, of course, and to communicate to somebody in California who called their local number and, and use this other dormant account that nobody else was using, that was really,
[18:02.740 --> 18:04.200]  yeah, it was really very cool.
[18:04.420 --> 18:06.180]  Well, you know why this young man did this, though?
[18:06.660 --> 18:08.660]  I wanted to impress chicks.
[18:09.120 --> 18:09.920]  Is that what he said?
[18:10.220 --> 18:10.480]  Mm-hmm.
[18:11.060 --> 18:11.780]  I don't see that in there.
[18:11.840 --> 18:16.380]  That was, it was not in, it wasn't in that article, it was in another one.
[18:16.460 --> 18:24.060]  There was one, there was a link to, I, I can't remember what it was, but there was a link somewhere from Hacker News to the story.
[18:24.440 --> 18:28.580]  And he wanted, apparently this young man wanted to impress girls.
[18:30.180 --> 18:40.260]  And his, I think his motivations behind it, motivations that a lot of us here really could appreciate.
[18:41.240 --> 18:41.980]  Well, I mean...
[18:41.980 --> 18:44.360]  Although, I think it would be really cool to look at that stuff.
[18:44.360 --> 18:44.660]  How about this?
[18:44.660 --> 18:45.520]  How about this for motivation?
[18:45.900 --> 18:58.440]  There's a case in California, a United States Attorney's office in Los Angeles Thursday charged Jason Dykeman of Mission something, California, with hacking into computers at several universities as well as NASA.
[18:58.520 --> 19:00.040]  Everyone's just got to do NASA at some point.
[19:00.140 --> 19:00.760]  I don't see why.
[19:01.200 --> 19:04.300]  It's because, I don't know, it's a rite of passage of some sort.
[19:04.700 --> 19:05.620]  No, you know, you know why?
[19:06.700 --> 19:08.540]  Because the security is abominable.
[19:08.640 --> 19:09.060]  That's why.
[19:09.280 --> 19:10.500]  Because it's an easy target.
[19:11.060 --> 19:11.900]  That's got to be it.
[19:11.980 --> 19:13.700]  It's unfortunate, but I mean, leave them alone.
[19:13.820 --> 19:14.420]  Cut them some slack.
[19:14.580 --> 19:16.720]  It's going to be a fraternity hazing scheme soon.
[19:16.900 --> 19:17.940]  They don't seem to learn.
[19:18.060 --> 19:19.420]  They don't seem to ever improve things.
[19:19.560 --> 19:20.700]  But anyway, I mean, come on.
[19:21.100 --> 19:24.260]  We're talking about back in the early 80s people doing this and they still haven't gotten any better.
[19:24.460 --> 19:31.620]  Anyway, this person is accused, among other things, of stealing hundreds of credit card numbers to buy thousands of dollars worth of clothes, stereo equipment, and computer hardware.
[19:31.760 --> 19:32.540]  Now, do you see the difference?
[19:32.660 --> 19:33.900]  Yeah, someone called that fraud.
[19:34.220 --> 19:35.980]  But it's in the same article with this.
[19:36.120 --> 19:37.600]  The difference is that's theft.
[19:37.780 --> 19:39.240]  That's stealing tangible objects.
[19:39.400 --> 19:39.900]  That's crime.
[19:40.000 --> 19:40.760]  That's real crime.
[19:40.860 --> 19:42.500]  Just happening to use a computer.
[19:42.720 --> 19:48.340]  I don't even think prison is necessarily the answer for something like that, but certainly paying back what you stole is.
[19:48.500 --> 19:49.960]  But, you know, that's another issue.
[19:50.140 --> 19:57.560]  But just going in for curiosity, not doing any damage, and having people be a little confused as to who you are, it's totally different.
[19:57.660 --> 19:58.600]  And I think you should be treated that way.
[20:00.020 --> 20:01.040]  Anyway, moving on.
[20:04.060 --> 20:06.580]  This was a very confusing week for me.
[20:07.220 --> 20:11.520]  I felt like, I don't know, like somehow there are two worlds out there.
[20:11.600 --> 20:16.520]  There's the world of my reality and the world of, you know, the rest of the world's reality.
[20:17.240 --> 20:27.000]  And it just, it feels sometimes like you're alone, you know, like you're, the things that you believe in, the things that you think are important just don't seem to matter.
[20:27.400 --> 20:28.260]  It's an illusion.
[20:28.400 --> 20:29.040]  It's a perception.
[20:29.200 --> 20:30.700]  And it's caused by mass media.
[20:31.120 --> 20:36.200]  It's caused by you having the feeling that it's just impossible.
[20:36.300 --> 20:43.340]  Even with a radio station like this, having the feeling that you can't express yourself or have other ideas be spread around.
[20:43.380 --> 20:45.200]  I'm referring to a couple of things, actually.
[20:47.020 --> 20:51.160]  there was this Ralph Nader campaign rally.
[20:51.380 --> 20:52.600]  Did you hear about this last week?
[20:52.820 --> 20:53.040]  No.
[20:53.040 --> 20:53.380]  In Minnesota.
[20:53.520 --> 20:54.580]  No, of course you didn't hear about it.
[20:55.340 --> 21:00.320]  12,000 people showed up at a stadium or an arena or something in Minnesota.
[21:01.000 --> 21:02.340]  And I watched this on C-SPAN.
[21:02.700 --> 21:03.780]  C-SPAN's a great network.
[21:03.960 --> 21:05.440]  They have all kinds of interesting things.
[21:05.440 --> 21:06.080]  No commercials.
[21:06.320 --> 21:07.360]  I haven't seen that for years.
[21:07.480 --> 21:08.080]  No bias.
[21:08.380 --> 21:09.600]  It's just, it's an amazing thing.
[21:09.680 --> 21:10.820]  I wish there were a hundred of them.
[21:11.620 --> 21:12.180]  There's two of them.
[21:12.360 --> 21:13.000]  There's two of them.
[21:13.080 --> 21:14.960]  There should be a lot more because there are a lot of things going on.
[21:15.660 --> 21:20.160]  But, I have to turn on, you know, totally by accident actually and find this thing.
[21:20.420 --> 21:24.480]  Look at this, live from Minnesota, a Ralph Nader rally with 12,000 paying people.
[21:24.720 --> 21:31.280]  And do you know that made it the biggest, the biggest paid candidate appearance of the whole campaign for any candidate.
[21:31.440 --> 21:32.960]  Bush, Gore, all the other people.
[21:33.100 --> 21:33.940]  I didn't hear about it.
[21:33.980 --> 21:34.700]  You didn't hear about it.
[21:34.700 --> 21:34.900]  No.
[21:35.120 --> 21:40.520]  And, not only was it not broadcast on any of the three major news networks, CNN, Fox, MSNBC.
[21:40.980 --> 21:42.240]  Well, forget the event being broadcast.
[21:42.500 --> 21:44.060]  They didn't even mention that it occurred.
[21:44.720 --> 21:53.480]  Every time, Bush or Gore, you know, stumbles past somebody in a hallway and says something, it's break-in live coverage on the three major news networks.
[21:53.900 --> 21:58.980]  This, not only was not covered live, it was not mentioned in the news afterwards, it was not mentioned days after.
[21:59.040 --> 21:59.880]  This thing happened.
[21:59.900 --> 22:00.560]  It was real.
[22:00.560 --> 22:01.360]  I saw it.
[22:01.540 --> 22:04.880]  And I felt like I was living in fantasy land because it didn't happen.
[22:04.880 --> 22:09.400]  And that's the danger of when the media is conglomerated into these few people.
[22:09.720 --> 22:12.320]  They decide what happens and what doesn't.
[22:12.540 --> 22:14.560]  You know, they decide what is news and what is not news.
[22:14.740 --> 22:17.740]  And as far as most people are concerned, that event never happened.
[22:17.820 --> 22:24.120]  Then imagine, I feel frustrated, imagine the people who were there, you know, part of 12,000 people in a crowd and, you know, really enthusiastic.
[22:24.120 --> 22:25.800]  And he gave a really good speech, too.
[22:25.860 --> 22:26.860]  The guy's a great speaker.
[22:27.080 --> 22:31.020]  He had Phil Donahue, who I haven't seen in years, introduce him and Michael Orr.
[22:31.020 --> 22:31.480]  He's still alive?
[22:31.480 --> 22:32.980]  Yeah, I was wondering about that.
[22:33.600 --> 22:38.480]  But it was really inspiring, raised a lot of issues, things that should be talked about.
[22:38.600 --> 22:45.380]  Whether or not you agree with him, whether or not you're going to vote for him, these are things that should be discussed, just completely ignored.
[22:46.140 --> 22:46.820]  What do you do?
[22:46.920 --> 22:49.040]  How do you respond to something like that?
[22:49.060 --> 22:49.980]  You feel so powerless.
[22:50.140 --> 22:54.180]  You feel like there's absolutely no way that you can make any kind of change.
[22:54.200 --> 22:57.700]  And I think that's sort of where we're supposed to be in the eyes of people in charge.
[22:57.980 --> 23:00.780]  We're supposed to be in a position where we feel we can't make any change.
[23:01.560 --> 23:02.100]  That's not true.
[23:02.220 --> 23:02.700]  That's not true.
[23:02.760 --> 23:03.160]  Of course not.
[23:03.300 --> 23:04.660]  You can make a big difference.
[23:04.780 --> 23:11.880]  I think one of the main things people should do is go after the licenses of all these media entities and challenge them.
[23:13.420 --> 23:14.240]  Challenge the licenses?
[23:14.240 --> 23:14.880]  Challenge the licenses.
[23:15.340 --> 23:20.260]  Do you remember years ago, this used to happen a lot more, I think the renewal period was shorter.
[23:20.480 --> 23:24.260]  But radio stations and TV stations would always be going on saying, our license is up for renewal.
[23:24.420 --> 23:26.280]  If you have any comments, please come down to our...
[23:26.280 --> 23:26.900]  Contact the...
[23:26.900 --> 23:28.620]  It used to see it every two or three years.
[23:28.720 --> 23:30.060]  Now I think it's once every ten years.
[23:30.060 --> 23:34.160]  The point is, they do not own the airwaves.
[23:34.400 --> 23:36.060]  They are borrowing the airwaves.
[23:36.180 --> 23:41.200]  We are letting them use the airwaves with our permission, with our temporary license.
[23:41.420 --> 23:44.440]  And that license can be revoked if they are not serving the public interest.
[23:44.640 --> 23:51.540]  So if you don't believe that a radio station or a TV station is serving the public interest, you should challenge the license.
[23:52.240 --> 24:00.760]  And then the problem of people not being able to use the media might be addressed because then people will take over and do it themselves.
[24:01.440 --> 24:03.800]  But it's not going to happen if nobody challenges it.
[24:03.800 --> 24:04.440]  That's the thing.
[24:04.660 --> 24:08.400]  Quite honestly, nothing's really stopping them from taking over and doing it themselves now.
[24:08.760 --> 24:19.920]  You have a media which we've been speaking of throughout this entire show, if not for the past few years, known as the Internet, where just about anyone can publish anything and it can be viewed by the entire world.
[24:19.920 --> 24:26.700]  Well, the Internet is a totally different type of media and that's got its own problems too with regulation of that and attacks on that.
[24:27.120 --> 24:30.840]  We can spend hours going over just a few of those ones.
[24:31.080 --> 24:32.520]  But I'm talking about the mass media.
[24:33.400 --> 24:36.280]  The broadcast means that reach everybody.
[24:36.460 --> 24:37.660]  Radio, television, print.
[24:38.580 --> 24:38.700]  Yeah.
[24:38.880 --> 24:39.920]  Well, print is different.
[24:40.060 --> 24:41.960]  You don't need a license to print a newspaper.
[24:42.080 --> 24:42.880]  You need a printing press.
[24:43.120 --> 24:43.260]  Yep.
[24:43.600 --> 24:44.740]  And, you know, that's...
[24:45.500 --> 24:50.580]  Unfortunately, the airwaves are somewhat limited.
[24:51.460 --> 25:00.240]  But there is nothing in the Constitution, there is nothing anywhere that says that NBC has the right to have a TV station or a radio station.
[25:00.440 --> 25:05.420]  It's permission that the people grant for the public airwaves.
[25:05.660 --> 25:08.360]  And that permission can be taken away if they are not doing their job.
[25:08.380 --> 25:10.240]  Now, I happen to think they're not doing their job.
[25:10.420 --> 25:11.600]  And it should be challenged.
[25:11.740 --> 25:13.740]  And they should address these kinds of things.
[25:13.880 --> 25:16.860]  When you see something like this, go to them.
[25:17.040 --> 25:17.580]  Challenge them.
[25:17.820 --> 25:22.040]  Demand that they start covering other news items, not just the same thing over and over again.
[25:22.300 --> 25:23.760]  What good is having all this choice?
[25:23.920 --> 25:26.120]  I get something like 300 TV channels now.
[25:26.540 --> 25:28.440]  What good is all this choice if it's all the same?
[25:28.560 --> 25:30.180]  Is it 500 channels and nothing on?
[25:30.460 --> 25:31.220]  Something like that.
[25:31.540 --> 25:32.640]  It's just really frustrating.
[25:32.860 --> 25:34.220]  So, that's what I want to see.
[25:34.280 --> 25:36.180]  I want to see these challenges being made.
[25:36.260 --> 25:41.760]  And then when the FCC says, oh, yeah, we're going to give them the license anyway, then they can be shown for the corrupt bastards they are.
[25:45.700 --> 25:59.460]  Unfortunately, sorry, unfortunately, network TV though, their public aren't Nielsen ratings and are people with the little box or whatever at home and who punch little numbers in and say, wow, this was a really great program.
[25:59.800 --> 26:05.660]  And the reason why those networks stay networks is because they have their advertisers.
[26:06.000 --> 26:07.740]  They don't keep their license because of their ratings.
[26:08.000 --> 26:11.060]  They keep their license because the FCC says, yes, you're serving the public interest.
[26:11.300 --> 26:18.300]  The Nielsen boxes are simply so that they can figure out how much money to charge the advertisers and it's an internal type of a thing.
[26:18.340 --> 26:19.680]  It does not measure public interest.
[26:19.900 --> 26:21.040]  In their mind, yes.
[26:21.220 --> 26:21.440]  Right.
[26:21.800 --> 26:26.020]  But it's not, you know, the thing is, people have to challenge things for any change to be made.
[26:26.080 --> 26:38.500]  And if nobody steps forward and says this is wrong, you know, imagine 100 people picketing outside Rockefeller Center tomorrow saying, you know, cover Ralph Nader, you know, cover Pat Buchanan, cover all these third-party candidates.
[26:38.860 --> 26:39.740]  It won't be covered.
[26:40.560 --> 26:40.920]  No.
[26:41.060 --> 26:42.300]  It will make a difference though.
[26:42.460 --> 26:43.280]  It will make a difference.
[26:43.280 --> 26:51.140]  And I think, you know, if other media does cover it and I think they probably would, then they'll be kind of frantic to make these people happy.
[26:51.940 --> 26:53.100]  It should be tried anyway.
[26:53.320 --> 26:55.060]  Well, it's very similar with the DCS trial.
[26:55.060 --> 26:55.500]  Oh, I'm sorry.
[26:55.700 --> 27:13.500]  It's very similar with the DCS trial though as well because all of a sudden, you know, 2600 Press was getting sporadic questions about the trial and then all of a sudden, you know, one network or one news agency picks up on it.
[27:13.640 --> 27:17.060]  We have Reuters on it and we have New York Times.
[27:17.140 --> 27:17.780]  We have AP.
[27:18.020 --> 27:19.540]  We have all these...
[27:19.540 --> 27:22.980]  And so they all follow suit because they don't want to get scooped by the other one.
[27:23.260 --> 27:23.380]  Yep.
[27:23.600 --> 27:25.780]  All follow suit literally because most of them are suing us.
[27:26.480 --> 27:29.200]  But that's a whole other issue right there.
[27:29.420 --> 27:30.160]  That's actually pretty good.
[27:30.340 --> 27:31.320]  Yeah, well, it's pretty...
[27:31.320 --> 27:31.900]  It's a good point.
[27:31.980 --> 27:35.040]  It's pretty scary when you think of it because they're the same entities everywhere.
[27:35.120 --> 27:39.500]  They're all connected and that's something people really shouldn't forget is that these...
[27:39.500 --> 27:43.860]  Like, for instance, today, Viacom had Al Gore on MTV.
[27:44.120 --> 27:44.960]  Viacom owns MTV.
[27:45.220 --> 27:45.380]  Oh, yeah.
[27:45.380 --> 27:46.660]  He did that thing at the school.
[27:46.880 --> 27:48.040]  Did they ask him about his underwear again?
[27:48.040 --> 27:48.580]  I don't know.
[27:48.680 --> 27:49.480]  I didn't listen to it.
[27:49.760 --> 27:50.700]  I don't watch that crap.
[27:50.720 --> 27:53.400]  But, you know, are they doing this?
[27:53.480 --> 27:56.340]  This is the youth-oriented network, supposedly.
[27:56.620 --> 27:59.480]  Did they get any other candidates in there or just that one?
[27:59.560 --> 28:00.020]  Just Al Gore.
[28:00.200 --> 28:03.040]  Just the one they deem to be the youth-oriented candidate.
[28:03.040 --> 28:08.220]  Well, you know, the interesting thing, and if you look at the polls, you'll see some real odd things going on.
[28:09.380 --> 28:13.480]  Basically, they always have Bush and Gore neck and neck because that makes for good ratings.
[28:13.580 --> 28:14.660]  That makes things interesting, you know.
[28:14.980 --> 28:16.400]  Who knows how it's going to wind up?
[28:16.480 --> 28:17.740]  Who knows which one we're going to wind up with?
[28:17.980 --> 28:22.600]  But the other candidates are always, like, pathetically way down far so that you want to laugh, you know.
[28:22.940 --> 28:26.700]  And if you were considering voting for them, you'd say, well, what possible good could that do?
[28:26.780 --> 28:28.760]  You know, it's only going to be 4%.
[28:28.760 --> 28:32.860]  Well, the big problem is people seem to want to vote for a winner and that's not what it's supposed to be about.
[28:33.260 --> 28:34.260]  Well, okay.
[28:34.660 --> 28:35.460]  There's two things here.
[28:35.540 --> 28:38.520]  First of all, you have to phrase the question in a particular way.
[28:38.740 --> 28:40.840]  And I guarantee you will see differences if you do this.
[28:40.880 --> 28:41.700]  Well, the sample's important.
[28:41.860 --> 28:45.420]  I guarantee you'll see differences if you ask the question differently than the way they've been asking it.
[28:45.520 --> 28:48.620]  The question that they ask is who are you going to vote for?
[28:49.020 --> 28:49.360]  Right?
[28:49.600 --> 28:50.800]  That's generally the question.
[28:51.100 --> 28:59.880]  Now, if you phrase the question differently, if you simply say who would you like to see in the White House, then you'll see actual answers.
[29:00.100 --> 29:02.080]  And I'll bet you'll see the percentages change completely.
[29:02.200 --> 29:02.440]  Try it.
[29:02.440 --> 29:03.200]  Try it on your friends.
[29:03.420 --> 29:06.280]  Go out there and ask them the question two different ways.
[29:06.400 --> 29:07.420]  See if you get different answers.
[29:07.480 --> 29:07.980]  I'll bet you will.
[29:08.180 --> 29:08.660]  I did.
[29:09.760 --> 29:12.840]  Now, the other thing... Do you have to limit it to among the candidates?
[29:13.200 --> 29:13.560]  No.
[29:13.700 --> 29:15.420]  No, you can say anyone you want, really.
[29:15.580 --> 29:22.080]  But, you know, if you want to see if there's a difference with those three or four candidates, go for that and see what kind of differences you get.
[29:22.360 --> 29:24.140]  You know, one interesting thing.
[29:24.280 --> 29:28.120]  I don't think I've ever met someone who's excited about the Al Gore campaign.
[29:29.140 --> 29:31.380]  Al Gore seemed kind of excited for a little while.
[29:31.380 --> 29:34.840]  The media is the only entity excited about the Al Gore campaign.
[29:34.960 --> 29:42.360]  I mean, I know Democrats who are excited about the Hillary Clinton campaign, who are, you know, love the Democratic Party, but no one's ever excited about Al Gore.
[29:43.420 --> 29:47.460]  Yeah, it doesn't really inspire excitement in very many people.
[29:48.260 --> 29:52.160]  Apparently, I missed the party where people were excited about George W.
[29:52.380 --> 29:53.140]  Bush, though, too.
[29:53.680 --> 29:54.860]  Oh, you definitely did.
[29:55.200 --> 29:56.300]  It was most enjoyable.
[29:56.300 --> 29:56.960]  You should have been there.
[29:57.120 --> 29:59.560]  I'd have invited you, but... A lot of nose candy going around.
[30:01.480 --> 30:03.840]  Oh, I'm not even... That's bordering on slander.
[30:04.040 --> 30:06.060]  Yeah, I'm not going to even warrant it.
[30:06.220 --> 30:07.260]  Oh, I can slander George W.
[30:07.340 --> 30:08.380]  Bush because he's a public figure.
[30:08.620 --> 30:09.660]  That's how it works.
[30:09.780 --> 30:10.180]  It's a defense.
[30:10.440 --> 30:10.460]  Yeah.
[30:11.220 --> 30:18.680]  But anyway, the other thing is, because it's not slander where it's a public figure.
[30:18.780 --> 30:19.160]  That's how it works.
[30:19.160 --> 30:20.540]  Can we move on to something that's not ridiculous?
[30:21.200 --> 30:32.080]  Well, here's the other thing, the point I'm trying to make, is that when they give these polls, when they ask people how you voted, it's... there are certain criteria that you have to fulfill before you can answer the question.
[30:32.160 --> 30:34.060]  Do you know you have to have voted in the last three elections?
[30:34.860 --> 30:35.980]  It depends on the poll.
[30:36.280 --> 30:37.480]  Well, most of them.
[30:37.600 --> 30:39.260]  Zogby is actually very good about this.
[30:39.400 --> 30:40.780]  They poll likely voters.
[30:41.020 --> 30:42.880]  But do you know what it means when you say that?
[30:42.960 --> 30:46.480]  It means anyone under the age of, say, 25 is just ineligible.
[30:46.780 --> 30:51.480]  And that's where a lot of the different voters are in the first place.
[30:51.520 --> 30:53.960]  So you wind up getting people that just keep voting the same way.
[30:53.960 --> 30:57.920]  Well, those of us under 25 often find ourselves unable to register to vote.
[30:58.080 --> 31:00.060]  Yeah, now you, Mike, you had some problems with that.
[31:00.380 --> 31:02.920]  You go to Columbia and, what, you're being told now you're not allowed to vote?
[31:03.480 --> 31:11.720]  I went to the Board of Elections because I know that people have had problems between being students and registering green in New York State.
[31:12.700 --> 31:19.980]  So I physically went to the Board of Elections, 200 Barrick Street, with my registration and a few people.
[31:19.980 --> 31:23.280]  And they told me that they would not register students who live in dorms.
[31:23.640 --> 31:24.120]  What?
[31:24.320 --> 31:25.080]  That's illegal.
[31:25.400 --> 31:27.360]  It's absurd, not to mention illegal.
[31:27.600 --> 31:28.020]  That's absurd, yes.
[31:28.460 --> 31:31.140]  So under what criteria are they saying this?
[31:31.340 --> 31:42.580]  They found some law that says a person does not either gain or lose a residence by virtue of being a student at an institution, which is complete nonsense.
[31:42.800 --> 31:44.240]  Well, did you get the name of the person who said this?
[31:44.240 --> 31:48.260]  I spoke with the Deputy Chief Clerk of something.
[31:49.700 --> 31:52.000]  Please tell me you're going to hold them to the fire on this.
[31:52.280 --> 31:53.320]  Oh, we are.
[31:54.700 --> 31:56.460]  We're going to send you down the hall to Amy Goodman.
[31:56.580 --> 31:58.100]  She's going to do a story on this, I hope.
[31:58.620 --> 31:59.500]  Because that's...
[31:59.500 --> 31:59.960]  Hey, Amy.
[32:00.060 --> 32:03.780]  Imagine how many people would be affected by that who would not stand up and fight.
[32:04.060 --> 32:05.380]  That's what really bothers me.
[32:05.520 --> 32:05.660]  Right.
[32:06.440 --> 32:09.880]  And these are precisely the kind of people who actually vote their conscience.
[32:09.880 --> 32:16.400]  So when you hear, like, the media, like, youth aren't voting, a lot of them would like to vote.
[32:16.700 --> 32:16.840]  Right.
[32:17.360 --> 32:17.660]  Right.
[32:17.720 --> 32:18.960]  And you make things difficult for people.
[32:19.120 --> 32:25.340]  You make it so you have to take a subway ride someplace far away or, you know, fill out all kinds of forms, you lose a lot of people that way.
[32:25.540 --> 32:26.340]  You really do.
[32:26.560 --> 32:26.700]  Yeah.
[32:26.800 --> 32:29.300]  And I think that's the underlying...
[32:29.300 --> 32:41.920]  You know, how different is it than what's going on in Belgrade right now with, you know, elections being contested, and someone wanting to hold on to power, but it's obvious that, you know, this guy lost the election, and he's going to make it as difficult as possible.
[32:42.080 --> 32:45.200]  It's a little more civilized here, but the effect is basically the same.
[32:45.340 --> 32:49.540]  Well, people in charge hang on to the power, make it as difficult for the opposition as possible.
[32:49.680 --> 32:53.400]  The committee is chaired by one Republican and one Democrat, and therefore it's neutral.
[32:54.380 --> 32:58.200]  That's the other thing I don't understand is, you know, why is it limited to the major parties?
[32:58.420 --> 33:01.740]  You'd have more fairness if there were all kinds of people represented.
[33:01.740 --> 33:04.460]  You would have most fairness if you had, like, neutral people.
[33:04.460 --> 33:04.820]  Mm-hmm.
[33:05.220 --> 33:05.640]  Absolutely.
[33:05.860 --> 33:09.380]  I like this fairness quantity that seems to have just appeared out of nowhere.
[33:09.580 --> 33:21.280]  But one of the other issues with the whole Belgrade election, you have our president here in the States saying that the people have spoken...
[33:21.280 --> 33:22.420]  That's something that bothers me.
[33:22.500 --> 33:31.560]  And since the people have spoken, if this individual is elected, the United States will lift our economic sanctions.
[33:31.560 --> 33:43.980]  Now, if anything interferes with free elections in another country more than the president announcing we are going to stop beating the hell out of you economically, I don't know what it is.
[33:44.120 --> 33:44.140]  Yeah.
[33:44.140 --> 33:44.540]  No, absolutely.
[33:44.760 --> 33:49.860]  But the other thing that kind of worries me a little bit is that we know who won, and we know how much they won.
[33:49.940 --> 33:50.620]  But how do we know this?
[33:50.820 --> 33:52.480]  They haven't released the polls yet.
[33:52.480 --> 33:52.940]  How do we know?
[33:52.940 --> 33:53.340]  We know.
[33:53.460 --> 33:55.060]  Yeah, it's like 48 and 40 or something.
[33:55.220 --> 34:03.020]  Well, basically what I heard right before the show is that it was 48% for the opposition, 40% for Milosevic, which means they have to have a runoff.
[34:03.400 --> 34:09.100]  That's the ruling party's announcement, which I don't know whose idea it was to give them the ballots to count, but that's what happened.
[34:09.980 --> 34:12.740]  Now, we're saying that that's not right, but how do we know it's not?
[34:12.880 --> 34:13.880]  How do we know the numbers are different?
[34:13.960 --> 34:14.840]  What are we basing that on?
[34:14.900 --> 34:16.400]  That's what nobody seems to be answering.
[34:16.660 --> 34:19.000]  But anyway, that's another country, another election.
[34:19.740 --> 34:20.920]  We just don't have the time.
[34:20.920 --> 34:22.320]  We could go on for hours and hours about this.
[34:22.820 --> 34:30.980]  This person writes in on the September 19th show, you mentioned the phone number where one could leave comments, as you made Isaac do, about the presidential debates.
[34:30.980 --> 34:32.080]  Yeah, I'm still a little sore.
[34:32.240 --> 34:33.200]  Get a call back about that?
[34:33.500 --> 34:33.740]  Yeah.
[34:33.940 --> 34:35.620]  I called them later, giving your docs.
[34:35.840 --> 34:36.340]  Oh, thanks.
[34:36.580 --> 34:36.920]  No problem.
[34:37.200 --> 34:41.000]  I, however, didn't catch the phone number, so if you could please repeat it.
[34:41.100 --> 34:41.320]  Okay.
[34:41.840 --> 34:43.100]  We do have it somewhere.
[34:43.940 --> 34:45.620]  I thought I had it right in front of me.
[34:45.700 --> 34:46.020]  Oh, there it is.
[34:48.020 --> 34:54.320]  This, the number we called was the Commission on Presidential Debates, 202-872-1020.
[34:56.440 --> 35:00.000]  They can also call the nice people in, Heiser Bush, 1-800-DIAL-BUD.
[35:00.720 --> 35:03.480]  Tell them what you think of their involvement in that kind of thing.
[35:03.540 --> 35:06.020]  But here are a couple of interesting facts that I'm not sure if people know about.
[35:06.020 --> 35:17.080]  But Section 315 of the Communications Act of 1934 stipulates that all eligible candidates running for a governmental position must be granted equal airtime, the equal time rule.
[35:17.680 --> 35:19.220]  Broadcasters were required to do this.
[35:19.460 --> 35:19.520]  Yeah.
[35:20.100 --> 35:22.300]  How, then, are two-party presidential debates allowed?
[35:22.560 --> 35:34.260]  Well, the FCC in 1975 opened up a loophole in the provision through a 1959 amendment to the Act which exempted broadcasters from equal opportunity responsibilities in the case of bona fide news programs.
[35:34.420 --> 35:39.000]  That is, news on candidates doesn't necessitate equal news on all other candidates.
[35:39.220 --> 35:46.960]  Ever since, private, non-profit organizations have sponsored presidential debates which broadcasters then cover as news events.
[35:46.960 --> 35:47.780]  Their news events.
[35:47.860 --> 35:48.960]  Excluding alternative candidates.
[35:49.180 --> 35:49.800]  It's really slick.
[35:49.940 --> 35:50.200]  That's how it works.
[35:50.400 --> 35:50.940]  Really slick.
[35:52.200 --> 35:58.440]  The League of Women Voters, they sponsored the presidential debates in 1976, 1980, and 1984.
[35:58.740 --> 36:04.580]  They withdrew their sponsorship in 1988 after the creation of the Commission on Presidential Debates.
[36:04.700 --> 36:10.960]  It did so, and this is a quote, because the demands of the two campaign organizations would perpetuate a fraud on the American voter.
[36:10.980 --> 36:20.960]  It has become clear to us that the candidates' organizations aim to add debates to their list of campaign trails, charades, devoid of substance, spontaneity, and answers to tough questions.
[36:20.980 --> 36:21.200]  Oh, yeah.
[36:21.300 --> 36:23.960]  These things are joint press conferences, is what they've turned into.
[36:24.320 --> 36:24.940]  That's ridiculous.
[36:24.940 --> 36:25.640]  It's a joke.
[36:26.960 --> 36:29.860]  Anyway, that's going to be some activity in Boston next week.
[36:29.960 --> 36:35.140]  In fact, there's going to be an alternative debate the day before.
[36:35.720 --> 36:37.380]  The other three are, like, getting together?
[36:37.940 --> 36:53.860]  I'm not sure how many people are getting together, but check out expandthedebate.org, and there's all kinds of information on that, on the alternative debate, and on the protests going on October 3rd, a week from today.
[36:54.060 --> 36:55.620]  Everything always happens on Tuesdays, you know?
[36:55.880 --> 36:56.880]  I don't know why that is.
[36:57.240 --> 37:01.820]  The thing in Prague today, the debate, election day, it's all Tuesdays.
[37:02.860 --> 37:06.460]  Anyway, not only in Prague, but in 50 cities across the U.S.
[37:06.600 --> 37:06.980]  60.
[37:07.200 --> 37:07.620]  60 cities.
[37:07.620 --> 37:08.420]  60, wow.
[37:08.720 --> 37:10.680]  And more than 100 across the world.
[37:11.260 --> 37:13.300]  They shut down the city of Tel Aviv.
[37:13.720 --> 37:14.060]  Really?
[37:14.260 --> 37:14.920]  Why is this again?
[37:14.920 --> 37:15.120]  Wow.
[37:15.600 --> 37:16.420]  This is the IMF.
[37:16.480 --> 37:28.540]  We don't really have time to debate the qualities of the IMF and their evil ways and things like that, but suffice to say, we have in the past, we probably will in the future, and today was an interesting day for that reason.
[37:29.580 --> 37:30.620]  Okay, we're going to take phone calls.
[37:30.720 --> 37:32.740]  It's 212-209-2900.
[37:33.080 --> 37:36.960]  Let's see if we can sneak in a couple more bits of mail.
[37:36.960 --> 37:37.960]  Isaac, do you read the mail?
[37:38.060 --> 37:39.880]  Do you see any of the interesting things that come in?
[37:40.460 --> 37:41.460]  I read it on occasion.
[37:41.620 --> 37:42.680]  I've replied to a few in France.
[37:42.740 --> 37:45.260]  A lot of people are very happy with the MP3s that we have up now.
[37:45.400 --> 37:45.680]  Yes.
[37:45.920 --> 37:46.160]  Yeah.
[37:46.840 --> 37:47.500]  Yes, they are.
[37:48.220 --> 37:53.040]  This person says, I listen as I work around the house or walking the dog with my wonderful MP3 player.
[37:53.240 --> 37:56.260]  How many MP3s can he get on an MP3 player?
[37:56.540 --> 37:58.420]  Each show is about 7 or 8 megs.
[37:59.120 --> 38:01.420]  So you can really squeeze quite a few on there.
[38:01.880 --> 38:03.500]  And people go all over the place.
[38:03.940 --> 38:07.620]  MP3 has yet to reach its full potential by radio shows.
[38:07.660 --> 38:12.940]  I am very happy to see you have lots of MP3 files to download very easily, and no reports will be sent to anyone.
[38:13.440 --> 38:17.460]  Not so the case with Real Audio, which reports everything to Command Central Real Audio.
[38:18.200 --> 38:21.660]  But have no fear, Zone Labs is protecting me now.
[38:22.520 --> 38:23.160]  Good show.
[38:23.300 --> 38:24.360]  Keep us posted on the latest.
[38:24.640 --> 38:27.540]  Are we still going about converting the old Real Audio files?
[38:27.720 --> 38:30.080]  I believe Juntz has been doing that.
[38:30.220 --> 38:32.760]  And we should have something up in the next week or so.
[38:33.020 --> 38:33.420]  Hopefully.
[38:33.520 --> 38:36.360]  Because if we're going to switch formats, we've really got to go back and do them all.
[38:36.560 --> 38:36.800]  Yeah.
[38:37.280 --> 38:37.640]  Yeah, I know.
[38:38.800 --> 38:42.600]  You know, I've been going through the H2K videos.
[38:42.940 --> 38:43.800]  Slowly but surely.
[38:43.960 --> 38:44.860]  Boy, there's a lot of stuff there.
[38:45.540 --> 38:49.740]  But the thing is, I've been trying to encode them onto Real Audio.
[38:49.960 --> 38:50.880]  And you know what?
[38:51.240 --> 38:54.840]  They want me to buy the program that I bought to encode the shows.
[38:54.840 --> 38:57.720]  Again, because I'll be using it on a different computer.
[38:58.260 --> 38:58.820]  Can you believe that?
[38:59.000 --> 38:59.200]  What?
[38:59.440 --> 38:59.600]  Yeah.
[38:59.920 --> 39:03.840]  The same encoder that I'm running on an NT machine to encode radio shows.
[39:04.500 --> 39:10.940]  On another NT machine that's in a different area, I have to buy it a second time, even though I'm the same person running the same program.
[39:10.940 --> 39:14.560]  I would imagine you don't have to, as long as you don't use it at the same time on both of your systems.
[39:14.560 --> 39:15.000]  No, that's not true.
[39:15.160 --> 39:15.600]  That's not true.
[39:15.660 --> 39:15.760]  Really?
[39:15.760 --> 39:17.220]  All the DLL files are in conflict.
[39:17.360 --> 39:18.480]  That's just, it's a big mess.
[39:18.480 --> 39:19.160]  It really is.
[39:19.260 --> 39:21.340]  This is why buying software is such a bad idea.
[39:21.620 --> 39:22.880]  You always wind up regretting it.
[39:22.940 --> 39:24.860]  Well, you don't buy software, you buy a license to software.
[39:25.140 --> 39:25.540]  Yeah, I know.
[39:25.540 --> 39:27.880]  But the license, the license is what's unfair.
[39:28.000 --> 39:30.080]  The license tells you all these crazy things.
[39:30.120 --> 39:30.900]  It's an important distinction.
[39:30.900 --> 39:36.080]  You should be wearing red shoes when you run the thing and, you know, have to believe certain things that they tell you to believe.
[39:37.100 --> 39:39.640]  Dear Off the Hook, I'm proud to say that I'm a student at Washington State University.
[39:39.680 --> 39:42.080]  We were sent a letter from Dr. Dre and Metallica.
[39:42.780 --> 39:45.140]  I don't know if the letter actually came from Dr. Dre and Metallica.
[39:45.240 --> 39:46.000]  It'd be kind of funny if it did.
[39:46.160 --> 39:51.740]  Our president said that he is not going to shut down, what do you call it?
[39:51.820 --> 39:54.420]  Not going to shut down Napster and not limit the students' access to the internet.
[39:54.500 --> 39:57.100]  And I've seen the same thing said at MIT, a bunch of other schools.
[39:57.240 --> 39:57.680]  Good for them.
[39:57.680 --> 39:59.700]  I got an email yesterday.
[39:59.900 --> 40:01.600]  Columbia is not going to block it either.
[40:02.040 --> 40:02.620]  Great, great.
[40:02.980 --> 40:06.960]  I mean, the reason to, you know, to restrict access is not, you know, because of music.
[40:06.960 --> 40:08.920]  It's because of bandwidth issues, I would think.
[40:09.420 --> 40:12.080]  You know, if that's not a problem, then, you know, more power to you.
[40:12.700 --> 40:20.940]  In fact, somebody wrote to us about the ECSS song, saying how that was taken off mp3.com.
[40:21.220 --> 40:23.040]  But it's still easy to find on Napster.
[40:23.120 --> 40:25.800]  And that's exactly what Napster is for, to find things like that.
[40:26.360 --> 40:27.540]  You know, that's what it's all about.
[40:27.680 --> 40:28.120]  Hmm.
[40:28.980 --> 40:32.460]  We have a full switchboard, so I guess we should, uh, take some phone calls, right?
[40:33.500 --> 40:34.420]  16th of January.
[40:35.460 --> 40:36.840]  Oh, that's, uh...
[40:36.840 --> 40:37.800]  Four months from now.
[40:37.900 --> 40:42.240]  You know, it also, I don't think it serves us if we constantly talk about it either.
[40:42.640 --> 40:43.640]  You know, I think we...
[40:43.640 --> 40:45.200]  That's basically the ban is in effect.
[40:45.460 --> 40:46.920]  Just leave it in the back of our mind.
[40:47.060 --> 40:49.940]  Yeah, Rebel Free until January 16th.
[40:50.240 --> 40:51.680]  You can send letters, you know.
[40:52.700 --> 40:53.960]  Won't read them, but you can send them.
[40:54.520 --> 40:55.880]  And, uh, that's it, yeah.
[40:56.520 --> 40:57.080]  I'm bored.
[40:57.900 --> 40:59.440]  I didn't like having to do that, by the way.
[40:59.740 --> 40:59.920]  What?
[41:00.600 --> 41:01.060]  Send letters?
[41:01.380 --> 41:04.440]  If you saw me laughing after the show last week, it wasn't because of that.
[41:04.740 --> 41:04.880]  Oh.
[41:05.640 --> 41:06.840]  It was something else, but not that.
[41:06.920 --> 41:07.740]  I didn't enjoy this.
[41:07.960 --> 41:08.080]  Oh.
[41:08.180 --> 41:08.940]  I didn't want to do this.
[41:09.020 --> 41:09.180]  Okay.
[41:09.360 --> 41:10.880]  Well, now at least I can go to the first line.
[41:11.480 --> 41:17.000]  I haven't done that since, I think, 1992, I don't think I've been able to go to the first line.
[41:17.220 --> 41:17.440]  All right.
[41:17.480 --> 41:18.200]  Let's go to the first line.
[41:18.500 --> 41:19.000]  Good evening.
[41:19.100 --> 41:19.560]  You're on the air.
[41:20.780 --> 41:21.560]  Yeah, it's about time.
[41:22.060 --> 41:22.380]  Thanks.
[41:22.920 --> 41:23.420]  Well, okay.
[41:23.700 --> 41:25.360]  I can arrange for it to be longer if you want.
[41:25.820 --> 41:26.480]  Oh, yeah, please.
[41:26.820 --> 41:29.200]  I'm glad Isaac, the voice of reason, is there, too.
[41:29.660 --> 41:30.560]  Ah, the voice of reason.
[41:30.620 --> 41:30.780]  Yes.
[41:30.820 --> 41:31.140]  Go ahead.
[41:31.260 --> 41:31.600]  Go ahead.
[41:31.600 --> 41:36.400]  Well, I consider Emmanuel the spirit, and Isaac the voice of reason.
[41:37.040 --> 41:37.720]  All right.
[41:37.820 --> 41:38.640]  As long as I'm a free spirit.
[41:39.420 --> 41:42.780]  Thank you for telling me, because I did not know.
[41:43.000 --> 41:53.480]  I did know that the legal of women voters was instrumental in setting up the super fake debates with a bona fide news event.
[41:53.660 --> 41:53.820]  Yeah.
[41:54.020 --> 41:57.340]  That's why you didn't amplify on it.
[41:57.340 --> 42:08.540]  But the reason the newscasters and such would say, you know, please do not applaud, that would make it a private event.
[42:09.160 --> 42:15.900]  But if you can say 3,000 people are here, this is a big news event.
[42:16.100 --> 42:22.260]  So that's why it's not, you're taking five seconds away from the speaker's time.
[42:22.880 --> 42:27.860]  Don't applaud, because that would make it a private event and not a bona fide news event.
[42:28.320 --> 42:32.140]  So they're not saying don't applaud to cut out their time.
[42:32.480 --> 42:33.800]  Let me ask you a question, sir.
[42:34.000 --> 42:41.260]  But thank you for reminding me, or informing me, the League of Women Voters finally withdrew their support.
[42:41.480 --> 42:42.800]  Can I ask you a question?
[42:43.000 --> 42:43.260]  Yes.
[42:43.600 --> 42:45.240]  Do you think Ralph Nader should be in the debates?
[42:46.160 --> 42:46.600]  Absolutely.
[42:47.300 --> 42:47.580]  Okay.
[42:47.700 --> 42:49.400]  How about Harry Brown, Pat Buchanan?
[42:49.860 --> 42:50.300]  Yes.
[42:50.520 --> 42:51.380]  There are other folks.
[42:51.380 --> 42:53.280]  But that's not my main question.
[42:53.500 --> 42:53.860]  Okay.
[42:54.180 --> 42:56.520]  I'd like to take a poll of everybody I meet.
[42:56.660 --> 42:58.860]  And so far, almost everybody I've met says that.
[42:59.860 --> 43:00.300]  Absolutely.
[43:01.280 --> 43:01.720]  100%.
[43:02.280 --> 43:03.160]  Harry Brown.
[43:03.380 --> 43:05.000]  I would not support him.
[43:05.520 --> 43:08.160]  But Harry Brown, Pat Buchanan, Ralph Nader.
[43:08.360 --> 43:09.700]  See, it's not a question of who you support.
[43:09.800 --> 43:11.260]  It's a question of do you support open dialogue.
[43:11.440 --> 43:12.720]  And I think most people want to see that.
[43:12.880 --> 43:14.020]  Anyway, what's your question?
[43:14.160 --> 43:18.300]  I absolutely support all, at least those three, in addition to two major.
[43:18.300 --> 43:26.440]  And I'm glad you occasionally refer to them as two major parties rather than so-called third parties.
[43:26.460 --> 43:30.280]  Because who decides who's one, who's two, and who's number three?
[43:30.440 --> 43:30.840]  Yes.
[43:30.940 --> 43:33.860]  If they're legal, if they're legit, they're a party.
[43:34.380 --> 43:34.440]  Yep.
[43:34.580 --> 43:37.280]  You know, what's this stuff with this, like, third party?
[43:37.660 --> 43:37.900]  Mm-hmm.
[43:37.900 --> 43:39.580]  So, here's my question.
[43:39.760 --> 43:41.540]  And I asked you this once a while back.
[43:41.760 --> 43:43.580]  I've been listening to you since you've been on.
[43:43.940 --> 43:44.520]  Oh, boy.
[43:44.700 --> 43:45.860]  Every week, if I can.
[43:46.580 --> 43:48.180]  You mean back from the 80s you've been listening?
[43:49.340 --> 43:49.700]  Mercy.
[43:49.740 --> 43:50.440]  No, I...
[43:50.440 --> 43:52.840]  Well, if you were on then, I didn't hear you in the 80s.
[43:53.120 --> 43:57.840]  I believe I started listening in the early 90s.
[43:57.940 --> 43:58.920]  Okay, that's still...
[43:58.920 --> 43:59.340]  He's committed.
[43:59.460 --> 44:00.040]  That's commendable.
[44:00.180 --> 44:00.960]  He should be committed.
[44:01.240 --> 44:01.880]  One or the other.
[44:01.880 --> 44:16.980]  So, here's the main question, and I asked this of Emanuel once, when the voice of reason was going to say, Emanuel is the spirit, but we must remember the original Emanuel Goldstein was a fictional character created by the bad guys.
[44:17.180 --> 44:17.400]  Yes.
[44:17.680 --> 44:19.620]  So, okay, here's the question.
[44:22.000 --> 44:24.080]  Emanuel said it would take a whole show.
[44:24.320 --> 44:28.820]  It's a little too late to take the whole show to do it, but I hope you will sometime, if it takes a whole show.
[44:28.820 --> 44:34.860]  So, I'll ask this question to Isaac, Emanuel, and your guests, and whomever.
[44:35.000 --> 44:38.340]  This is the biggest build-up to a question I think I've ever heard, but go ahead, ask the question.
[44:38.360 --> 44:39.480]  It's a big question.
[44:40.280 --> 44:42.900]  When someone registers for a dot-com...
[44:43.560 --> 44:44.120]  Yes.
[44:45.780 --> 44:46.340]  Okay.
[44:47.060 --> 44:49.960]  Multiple aspects of this, but it amounts to one question.
[44:50.660 --> 44:52.020]  Who gets the money?
[44:52.940 --> 44:55.420]  Who decided who gets the money?
[44:56.280 --> 45:04.280]  Who decided the amount that would be charged, in terms of paying money, to get that dot-com?
[45:04.940 --> 45:07.960]  What is that money used for?
[45:08.240 --> 45:08.920]  Et cetera.
[45:09.240 --> 45:09.960]  You get my drift?
[45:10.100 --> 45:10.440]  Yes.
[45:10.680 --> 45:10.780]  Yeah.
[45:11.080 --> 45:13.600]  You want the quicker answer, or...?
[45:13.600 --> 45:14.840]  See, I don't really know the...
[45:14.840 --> 45:17.560]  Well, Emanuel said it would take a whole show, but any answer, information...
[45:18.320 --> 45:18.420]  Yes.
[45:18.420 --> 45:19.220]  Because I think it's very...
[45:19.220 --> 45:21.480]  Because we're talking about billions of dollars here, right?
[45:21.520 --> 45:21.660]  Yeah.
[45:21.880 --> 45:22.260]  Oh, readily.
[45:22.680 --> 45:28.560]  I mean, you're looking at how many tens of registrations a second that these people have been quoting.
[45:28.740 --> 45:29.300]  But you know what's interesting?
[45:29.300 --> 45:29.860]  Seventy bucks a head.
[45:29.980 --> 45:31.620]  When you asked this question last...
[45:31.620 --> 45:32.320]  You get my point.
[45:32.460 --> 45:36.140]  When you asked this question last, I think there was only one registrar, right?
[45:36.200 --> 45:36.360]  Correct.
[45:36.780 --> 45:38.240]  And $70 was the fee.
[45:38.360 --> 45:42.340]  And now you see the price going all the way down to like $10 from $70.
[45:42.680 --> 45:46.200]  So that tells you how much waste there has been, how much pure profit.
[45:46.200 --> 45:57.120]  So who decides who gets the money, where it goes, what it's used for, and what basis was it decided, and why does it continue that way?
[45:57.120 --> 45:57.240]  Okay.
[45:57.360 --> 46:00.000]  Isaac is going to give his best shot at answering this question.
[46:00.100 --> 46:02.260]  And hopefully it won't take too long to do this, but go ahead.
[46:02.260 --> 46:17.120]  Originally, Network Solutions Incorporated was a minority-owned company who put in a bid to take over management of certain areas of the namespace, COM, NET, ORG, GOV.
[46:17.780 --> 46:22.680]  They weren't doing MIL, but they were doing a bunch of things like that.
[46:22.860 --> 46:24.060]  They weren't doing EDU, were they?
[46:24.340 --> 46:25.880]  Yeah, they were doing EDU, I'm sorry.
[46:26.180 --> 46:26.500]  EDU?
[46:26.680 --> 46:27.120]  EDU.
[46:27.460 --> 46:27.900]  EDU.
[46:28.020 --> 46:28.400]  EDU.
[46:28.400 --> 46:29.440]  EDU is pronounced EDU.
[46:29.620 --> 46:30.020]  EDU.
[46:30.100 --> 46:30.740]  What do you get EDU?
[46:30.860 --> 46:31.240]  EDU.
[46:31.380 --> 46:31.600]  EDU.
[46:31.600 --> 46:45.260]  Anyway, they put in the bid, they won it, and basically they were paid by National Science Foundation for this management.
[46:46.400 --> 46:53.060]  It came about that they decided, well, you know, we need some more money in order to manage this database.
[46:53.060 --> 46:54.680]  It's starting to get fairly unwieldy.
[46:55.460 --> 47:00.900]  So NSF said, well, I guess you can charge a reasonable amount to cover the costs of management.
[47:01.540 --> 47:06.700]  This turned into a $35, I'm sorry, no, a $50 a year fee.
[47:06.920 --> 47:07.800]  Minimum two-year start.
[47:08.000 --> 47:09.880]  And a minimum two-year for registration.
[47:10.140 --> 47:15.580]  Now, there's a big gap of time in there where they build up to the $100 for the two-year registration.
[47:16.300 --> 47:18.540]  But that's what it kind of got to.
[47:18.840 --> 47:21.180]  Well, I don't think there was a period before that where it was less, was it there?
[47:21.240 --> 47:21.820]  I think it started.
[47:21.880 --> 47:22.060]  It was free.
[47:22.360 --> 47:23.520]  Yeah, it was free, and then it was $100.
[47:23.700 --> 47:24.240]  And it was like $100.
[47:24.240 --> 47:25.620]  Yeah, I don't think there was any gradual...
[47:25.620 --> 47:30.320]  Well, this got well above and beyond the reasonable expenditure of time from engine.
[47:30.420 --> 47:33.020]  I mean, it's a bunch of text files, for Pete's sake.
[47:33.080 --> 47:33.460]  Yeah, I know.
[47:33.820 --> 47:34.140]  Anyway...
[47:34.140 --> 47:35.520]  It's like giving a touchstone dialing.
[47:35.600 --> 47:35.780]  Right.
[47:36.080 --> 47:36.620]  Entering a flag.
[47:36.620 --> 47:49.160]  So, more recently, people have been griping about this, reasonably so, and the Department of Commerce was handed the NSF contracts, and it got bounced around.
[47:49.780 --> 47:53.800]  And then, out of nowhere, this organization seems to have appeared.
[47:53.980 --> 47:54.340]  ICAN?
[47:54.520 --> 47:55.300]  Known as ICAN.
[47:55.740 --> 47:57.520]  And ICAN...
[47:57.520 --> 48:09.880]  Well, I can't figure out where they have their authority, because when they went to the Department of Commerce, Department of Commerce said, well, who the hell are you?
[48:10.740 --> 48:14.820]  ICAN said, well, National Science Foundation supports us.
[48:14.940 --> 48:17.640]  We got, you know, the President supporting us.
[48:17.760 --> 48:18.740]  We got a whole bunch...
[48:18.740 --> 48:24.120]  ISI, you know, Information Institute out yonder, John Postel's neck of the woods, is supporting us.
[48:24.260 --> 48:25.500]  So, Commerce said, okay.
[48:26.140 --> 48:27.420]  Now, who are these people?
[48:27.500 --> 48:28.460]  So, they go to ISI.
[48:29.180 --> 48:30.360]  ISI says, who are you?
[48:31.280 --> 48:33.820]  ICAN says, well, Department of Commerce supports us.
[48:33.820 --> 48:36.060]  You know, the President's Council supports us.
[48:36.080 --> 48:36.760]  Is that any other thing?
[48:36.980 --> 48:39.140]  They go, okay, then I guess we cover you, too.
[48:39.580 --> 48:40.840]  They go over to the President's Council.
[48:41.140 --> 48:44.040]  You know, well, the DOC and ISI support us.
[48:44.060 --> 48:44.660]  I guess we're here.
[48:44.780 --> 48:51.260]  So, they did like this, you know, crossed arms, pointing fingers thing in order to weave themselves a little web of stability.
[48:51.260 --> 48:52.400]  Okay, but who are these people?
[48:52.640 --> 48:54.120]  Are they corporate-backed?
[48:54.240 --> 48:54.880]  Are they...
[48:56.260 --> 48:57.540]  Any idea who these people are?
[48:57.740 --> 48:58.400]  Where'd they come from?
[48:58.400 --> 49:03.920]  You have Esther Dyson, who was an interesting figure, to say the least.
[49:04.060 --> 49:07.280]  If you go to ICANN.org, you can see some very interesting stuff.
[49:07.540 --> 49:12.100]  And if you go to ICANNwatch.org, you'll see some much more interesting stuff.
[49:12.280 --> 49:14.960]  Well, I think you should go to this site called Reclaim the Net.
[49:15.440 --> 49:16.120]  Reclaim the Net?
[49:16.280 --> 49:18.060]  Well, it's reclaim the, as one word, dot net.
[49:18.580 --> 49:22.800]  There's a whole thing here about ICANN's latest scam, and I think you'll love this one.
[49:22.920 --> 49:23.320]  What is this?
[49:23.320 --> 49:33.160]  The Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, ICANN, is accepting proposals from sponsors and organizations for new, generic, top-level domains.
[49:33.160 --> 49:34.260]  Oh, this is wonderful.
[49:34.480 --> 49:45.600]  Known as GTLDs, for possible addition to the global domain roots so users worldwide can register and access Internet sites with domain names such as new.world, bargain.shop, whatever.
[49:45.980 --> 49:46.600]  Now, get this.
[49:46.600 --> 49:56.160]  The application fee for sponsors of a new GTLD is non-refundable, and it's $50,000 payable to ICANN.
[49:56.540 --> 50:00.420]  The deadline is next Sunday, I think, October 2nd, so you better hurry.
[50:00.740 --> 50:01.340]  Imagine that.
[50:01.520 --> 50:03.320]  $50,000 non-refundable...
[50:03.320 --> 50:04.200]  Didn't it used to be $10,000?
[50:04.740 --> 50:05.600]  I don't think so.
[50:05.800 --> 50:06.500]  I don't think so.
[50:06.580 --> 50:07.600]  What are you gesticulating about?
[50:08.980 --> 50:09.820]  $50,000.
[50:10.280 --> 50:12.560]  I'll tell you exactly how this works once he says his piece.
[50:12.940 --> 50:13.740]  Well, basically...
[50:13.740 --> 50:14.580]  Okay, let me finish here.
[50:15.480 --> 50:17.440]  They're going to decide on new top-level domains.
[50:17.600 --> 50:20.040]  Like, right now, top-level domains is .net, .com, .org.
[50:20.260 --> 50:22.160]  There are going to be new ones as of next year.
[50:22.540 --> 50:30.040]  Now, if you want to propose a new one, all you've got to do is come up with $50,000, and you won't get it back, and they might say no, and they won't give you any explanation.
[50:30.220 --> 50:30.860]  But you see that...
[50:30.860 --> 50:31.680]  Where does that money go?
[50:31.680 --> 50:32.320]  But it doesn't matter.
[50:32.760 --> 50:38.020]  It really doesn't matter, because what's going to happen is NSI or one of these other registrars is going to come up with the money.
[50:38.380 --> 50:39.700]  And here's how it's going to work.
[50:44.940 --> 50:47.620]  What are you immediately going to do as soon as .web appears?
[50:48.420 --> 50:48.900]  Hold on.
[50:49.020 --> 50:49.620]  Let me think about this.
[50:50.480 --> 50:51.280]  You'll get...
[50:51.280 --> 50:52.740]  McDonald's .web.
[50:52.760 --> 50:53.260]  Oh, yeah.
[50:53.380 --> 50:53.980]  You're a MetLife.
[50:54.160 --> 50:57.140]  What are you going to do the instant .web appears?
[50:57.340 --> 50:57.560]  Uh-huh.
[50:57.700 --> 51:03.340]  You're going to have all these people who own comnets and orgs try to solidify their base into this new TLD.
[51:03.340 --> 51:04.620]  And by the way, there are all these...
[51:04.620 --> 51:05.720]  Billions of dollars.
[51:05.720 --> 51:07.220]  All these registrars are out there.
[51:07.360 --> 51:09.720]  All these registrars are out there taking reservations.
[51:09.720 --> 51:12.780]  But it's all a scam, because nobody has the right to do that.
[51:12.960 --> 51:14.080]  I don't see how it's going to...
[51:14.080 --> 51:14.820]  It's going to be chaos.
[51:15.120 --> 51:15.800]  Billions of dollars are going to roll.
[51:15.800 --> 51:19.520]  The net is going to go down that day when everyone's trying to register the new top-level domains.
[51:19.760 --> 51:20.160]  Billions of dollars are going to roll.
[51:20.260 --> 51:22.400]  And then they're going to fill that one, and they're going to open a new one.
[51:23.040 --> 51:23.280]  Okay.
[51:24.100 --> 51:24.880]  Wicked Davis here.
[51:25.060 --> 51:25.800]  You have a comment on this?
[51:25.800 --> 51:26.720]  The gesticulating man.
[51:27.160 --> 51:29.120]  You were wildly gesticulating a second ago.
[51:29.860 --> 51:36.100]  Well, I, at one point, was going to start a registrar for these new domains.
[51:36.100 --> 51:39.200]  That's right, I remember you were collecting like a million dollars.
[51:39.500 --> 51:39.640]  Yeah.
[51:40.160 --> 51:40.780]  How'd that go?
[51:40.900 --> 51:42.200]  And it was $50,000.
[51:44.360 --> 51:45.600]  That's to be a registrar, though.
[51:45.640 --> 51:47.680]  This is just to suggest a top-level domain.
[51:47.840 --> 51:49.560]  Right, well, they've joined the two now.
[51:50.220 --> 51:52.000]  You have to be a registrar to suggest it.
[51:52.100 --> 51:52.440]  Oh, really?
[51:52.480 --> 51:53.060]  I didn't see that.
[51:53.160 --> 51:53.300]  Okay.
[51:54.440 --> 51:55.360]  It's not written.
[51:55.360 --> 52:00.940]  So they're not taking $50,000 out of the hands of individual people that want to suggest a top-level domain.
[52:01.080 --> 52:01.720]  You have to be a registrar.
[52:01.760 --> 52:06.600]  Well, that's... I'd hate to think of some poor old lady losing $50,000 because she wants, you know...
[52:06.600 --> 52:08.180]  She wants that old lady and they don't take it.
[52:08.180 --> 52:08.640]  Exactly, yeah.
[52:08.840 --> 52:09.520]  That would be bad.
[52:10.060 --> 52:10.560]  The old cat.
[52:10.880 --> 52:25.620]  At the time, before they decided that there can be independent registrars and such, there was only 100 spaces open for new registrars to take over com, net org, etc., and the new domains.
[52:25.800 --> 52:28.500]  And they would not allow anyone else, and the deadline was two years ago.
[52:28.660 --> 52:31.080]  This entire system is absolutely ridiculous.
[52:31.240 --> 52:31.560]  It is.
[52:31.660 --> 52:32.200]  It really is.
[52:32.980 --> 52:37.960]  I can hardly wait until somebody decides, you know what, let's leave this net, let's sort of nettle net from scratch.
[52:38.240 --> 52:39.080]  Already happening.
[52:39.260 --> 52:39.940]  All right, who's doing it?
[52:40.080 --> 52:40.800]  A number of people.
[52:40.800 --> 52:41.680]  And you've got to...
[52:41.680 --> 52:43.120]  I'm not talking about just namespace.
[52:43.380 --> 52:46.740]  No, I'm talking about, you know, actually running, you know, running lines...
[52:46.740 --> 52:47.900]  Whole sets of cable and things like that.
[52:48.080 --> 52:48.760]  You've got to do it all over.
[52:48.760 --> 52:49.260]  Internet, too.
[52:49.700 --> 52:50.060]  Internet.
[52:50.340 --> 52:52.660]  Well, Internet, too, is the universities doing it.
[52:52.660 --> 52:55.680]  You've got a whole bunch of people doing alternative methods of communication.
[52:56.060 --> 52:57.900]  You've got a whole tunneling networks.
[52:58.120 --> 52:58.660]  That's a lot of fun.
[52:58.760 --> 53:03.620]  All the IPv6 people, we're like all in our happy little little boat with our own little tunnels and networks.
[53:03.680 --> 53:06.220]  Is there a site where this is being talked about?
[53:07.580 --> 53:13.660]  Just poke around various news groups and mailing lists, and you'll find some people who are putting together their own stuff.
[53:14.420 --> 53:14.520]  Okay.
[53:15.620 --> 53:16.840]  212-209-2900.
[53:16.960 --> 53:17.280]  Good evening.
[53:17.280 --> 53:18.300]  You're on the air.
[53:19.460 --> 53:19.900]  Hello?
[53:20.160 --> 53:20.560]  Yes, go ahead.
[53:21.500 --> 53:21.940]  After what?
[53:22.660 --> 53:22.980]  We're on the air.
[53:23.160 --> 53:23.800]  Yes, good evening.
[53:23.840 --> 53:24.140]  How are you?
[53:24.360 --> 53:24.700]  Good, how are you?
[53:24.940 --> 53:26.020]  Okay, question.
[53:26.440 --> 53:26.620]  Shoot.
[53:27.240 --> 53:44.240]  Last week, a company by the name of AbsoluteFuture.com, I believe, made an announcement that they had created a way to have self-destructing email.
[53:44.660 --> 53:46.540]  Oh, yeah, that's such a crock.
[53:46.720 --> 53:47.740]  Self-destructing email?
[53:47.980 --> 53:52.300]  Self-destructing email, and also you could not attach a virus to those emails.
[53:52.300 --> 53:53.240]  It's a crock.
[53:53.360 --> 53:54.460]  Wow, that's exactly what we need.
[53:55.900 --> 53:58.780]  Wow, okay, and why do you say it's a crock, Isaac?
[53:59.000 --> 54:00.360]  Basic information theory.
[54:00.360 --> 54:03.440]  If you can read it, you can store it and copy it.
[54:04.280 --> 54:05.980]  No, they say that you cannot store it.
[54:06.080 --> 54:06.720]  Sure you can.
[54:07.120 --> 54:10.620]  You take a screenshot of your screen when you see it on your screen.
[54:11.640 --> 54:12.220]  Mm-hmm.
[54:12.500 --> 54:13.040]  There you go.
[54:13.320 --> 54:15.600]  How do you get the virus, though, if you're taking a screenshot?
[54:16.360 --> 54:17.000]  I don't know.
[54:17.100 --> 54:17.780]  You don't get a virus.
[54:18.220 --> 54:27.900]  The point is, this entire thing works on the fact that every point in this transmission network is trusted to delete the mail as soon as they get it.
[54:28.060 --> 54:28.220]  Yeah.
[54:28.460 --> 54:29.300]  So if you see...
[54:29.720 --> 54:30.400]  It's absurd.
[54:30.660 --> 54:32.500]  You can't trust every node in this network.
[54:32.520 --> 54:34.980]  Were they saying that nobody can read the mail?
[54:35.040 --> 54:36.180]  They don't go to any servers.
[54:36.800 --> 54:38.100]  Yeah, it goes to their own servers.
[54:38.260 --> 54:38.380]  Right.
[54:38.540 --> 54:43.860]  But in order to read your email, you're going to have to use a web browser or some client they give you to read the mail.
[54:44.060 --> 54:50.760]  And as long as it's on your screen, you can write it down, you can take a screenshot, you can print it, you can fax it to yourself.
[54:50.900 --> 54:52.540]  It will continue to exist.
[54:53.560 --> 54:58.180]  Is the purpose of this to keep you from reading it or to keep from getting some kind of weird virus in the mail?
[54:58.260 --> 54:59.840]  Well, it is twofold.
[54:59.940 --> 55:06.820]  The purpose of it is from preventing you from getting viruses and also for privacy purposes, for corporations.
[55:07.480 --> 55:08.540]  Well, I'll tell you this.
[55:08.540 --> 55:13.660]  I agree with Isaac as far as if you're on the net, if you're reading mail, there's no privacy, there's no expectation of privacy.
[55:14.180 --> 55:24.220]  People could be outside your window, you know, watching your screen through all kinds of devices, or they can be intercepting it somewhere along the way, or your secret key could get out.
[55:24.880 --> 55:26.600]  Just assume that that's going to happen.
[55:26.740 --> 55:30.340]  Take precautions and know that nothing you say on the net is private.
[55:30.480 --> 55:32.400]  And probably nothing you say on the phone is private either.
[55:32.660 --> 55:36.700]  And certainly nothing you say on the radio because we're 50,000 watts and we're broadcasting all over the world.
[55:36.840 --> 55:39.000]  So let's move on to the next phone call.
[55:39.140 --> 55:39.440]  Good evening.
[55:39.540 --> 55:39.980]  You're on the air.
[55:40.840 --> 55:41.240]  Hello.
[55:41.900 --> 55:42.740]  Yes, go ahead.
[55:42.940 --> 55:46.240]  Yes, you're talking about email and the net.
[55:46.460 --> 55:49.380]  I find that when I listen to...
[55:49.380 --> 55:50.080]  You know, I...
[55:50.820 --> 55:51.800]  That's just bad.
[55:52.000 --> 55:58.820]  Well, we're going to have to visit Mike the bartender again and get his opinion on this, but I think that that was probably one of the poorest attempts.
[55:58.980 --> 56:03.180]  Either that or an extremely good attempt by somebody else to imitate Rebel, but...
[56:03.180 --> 56:04.480]  To imitate Rebel imitating someone else.
[56:04.480 --> 56:04.700]  Yeah.
[56:05.220 --> 56:08.100]  I mean, it sounded like he had like a vice on his mouth, you know?
[56:08.380 --> 56:09.100]  That's horrible.
[56:09.100 --> 56:10.240]  All right, so...
[56:11.920 --> 56:13.580]  We can't legally...
[56:13.580 --> 56:13.800]  I know.
[56:13.800 --> 56:17.840]  We have to take it out to the jury to decide if it is six months.
[56:18.180 --> 56:18.760]  Really, you know...
[56:18.760 --> 56:24.720]  I should also caution that this ban could become permanent if it, you know, if it continues to be mocked like this.
[56:24.920 --> 56:25.420]  Well...
[56:25.420 --> 56:28.280]  It's contempt of ban, you know, and that has to be...
[56:28.920 --> 56:30.280]  That can't be taken lightly.
[56:30.520 --> 56:30.880]  Good evening.
[56:31.000 --> 56:31.460]  You're on the air.
[56:32.240 --> 56:32.420]  Hi.
[56:32.460 --> 56:39.740]  In reference to the domain name, real addresses, I have actually a CC address, believe it or not.
[56:39.860 --> 56:40.260]  Ah, yes.
[56:40.320 --> 56:40.520]  CC.
[56:40.700 --> 56:41.700]  But anything that...
[56:41.700 --> 56:44.260]  Another thing that's interesting, the country of...
[56:44.260 --> 56:44.700]  I think...
[56:44.700 --> 56:48.180]  I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing it right, but I think it's T-U-V-O-L-A...
[56:48.180 --> 57:02.600]  They sold their TV extension to a company, and I noticed on the web that they're charging for a name like Sexy.TV, they're charging like $10,000.
[57:02.600 --> 57:06.220]  They had a listing of the... from the company who actually got it.
[57:06.340 --> 57:10.620]  It's a media company, and they're planning to actually make a fortune off of the TV extension.
[57:10.900 --> 57:17.380]  Also, a country sold their MD domain, and it's anticipating that that's going to make a fortune from doctors.
[57:17.380 --> 57:18.260]  Do you know the country?
[57:18.440 --> 57:18.940]  What is it, Tuvalu?
[57:19.180 --> 57:19.640]  Tuvalu, yeah.
[57:19.660 --> 57:23.720]  They became a member of the United Nations because of the money they raised.
[57:23.920 --> 57:24.460]  This is true.
[57:24.620 --> 57:25.640]  I read it in the New York Times.
[57:25.840 --> 57:27.780]  Oh, well, it must be true if the New York Times said...
[57:27.780 --> 57:28.120]  It's absolutely true.
[57:28.420 --> 57:30.480]  It only cost $10,000 to be a member of the U.M.
[57:30.480 --> 57:31.820]  when you only have 10,000 people, apparently.
[57:31.960 --> 57:40.760]  But they raised the money in this way, and that allowed them to do all these things that they never could have done because they were an island with no electricity or something before that.
[57:41.340 --> 57:41.700]  I don't know.
[57:41.740 --> 57:44.880]  To me, I think that's an abuse of top-level domains, especially when it's...
[57:44.880 --> 57:45.080]  Why?
[57:45.280 --> 57:46.040]  Because it's a resource.
[57:46.040 --> 57:47.520]  It's a geographic, yeah, but it's a geographic domain.
[57:47.520 --> 57:50.780]  Oh, that someone manages to get stewardship of it and resells it.
[57:51.000 --> 57:54.080]  Yeah, I mean, it's not them that's in control of it.
[57:54.160 --> 57:55.540]  It's somebody else taking it over.
[57:55.700 --> 57:56.020]  Dave, yes.
[57:56.580 --> 57:57.780]  I'm a prince of Tuvalu.
[57:58.380 --> 57:58.760]  You're what?
[57:58.900 --> 57:59.680]  I'm a prince of Tuvalu.
[57:59.740 --> 58:00.980]  What does that mean, you're a prince of Tuvalu?
[58:01.040 --> 58:02.020]  I'm a prince of Tuvalu.
[58:02.220 --> 58:05.100]  Okay, well, you can say it as many times as you want, but we still don't know what it means.
[58:05.240 --> 58:06.480]  As in they have a royal government?
[58:06.880 --> 58:08.680]  It means I paid them $150 to be a prince.
[58:08.920 --> 58:09.340]  Oh, really?
[58:09.500 --> 58:09.980]  Yeah, I'm serious.
[58:09.980 --> 58:12.960]  This is as big a scam as having a star named after you.
[58:13.160 --> 58:17.360]  Well, I got like rose petals or something we can throw on the floor as you want to the studio.
[58:17.700 --> 58:18.100]  I'm serious.
[58:18.440 --> 58:18.660]  Really?
[58:18.960 --> 58:19.340]  Good evening.
[58:19.340 --> 58:20.020]  Don't want to play a hundred.
[58:20.180 --> 58:20.680]  You're on the air.
[58:21.420 --> 58:27.640]  Yeah, just 15 seconds just goes to show you, you've got to do a whole hour show on that topic.
[58:27.960 --> 58:28.500]  On which topic?
[58:28.640 --> 58:29.100]  Name registration?
[58:29.480 --> 58:34.600]  Domain names, who gets the money, who set the prices, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
[58:34.600 --> 58:35.420]  Yes, absolutely.
[58:35.420 --> 58:35.680]  Thank you a lot.
[58:35.940 --> 58:37.060]  Okay, thanks for calling.
[58:38.060 --> 58:40.160]  How about over here now?
[58:40.780 --> 58:41.320]  Good evening.
[58:41.440 --> 58:41.740]  You're on the air.
[58:41.960 --> 58:42.900]  Good evening, Manuel.
[58:43.080 --> 58:43.640]  Good evening, gentlemen.
[58:44.780 --> 58:45.500]  Three things.
[58:46.220 --> 58:51.140]  Number one, I wanted to find out about name.space, but you can talk about that after a month here.
[58:51.900 --> 58:56.980]  The second thing I wanted to bring up to you is something I've been trying to get through for a little while.
[58:57.560 --> 59:12.160]  The New York City Fire Department is currently trying to prosecute two of its EMS members for comments that they made on their own websites that they went after them through AOL.
[59:12.560 --> 59:32.220]  They served AOL warrants in Virginia, administrative warrants, which are not good outside the city of New York, which they were promptly rebuffed, and then they re-served them in New York City, and the AOL notified the members that they would give them their real names and addresses,
[59:32.220 --> 59:34.340]  and then proceeded 20 days later, did so.
[59:35.200 --> 59:35.400]  Uh-huh.
[59:35.820 --> 59:42.160]  Well, I mean, that reminds me of things that happened in high schools where people, you know, people basically...
[59:42.160 --> 59:43.040]  If you don't...
[59:43.040 --> 59:44.580]  What happened to...
[59:44.580 --> 59:47.800]  And this is just my own feeling.
[59:48.060 --> 59:50.260]  What happened to the thing is that if you're on...
[59:50.260 --> 01:00:04.460]  If you're not saying anything illegal, like shouting fire in a crowded theater, what happened if you don't particularly like what something's going on, if you don't like how maybe, you know, somebody is doing something or whatever, and you say something,
[01:00:05.080 --> 01:00:20.420]  why is it all of a sudden that the expectation is that, well, everyone has the right to know who you are and where you are and take official action against you for something that you said basically almost in the privacy of your own home?
[01:00:20.420 --> 01:00:28.740]  Well, it's basically that whole concept that anonymity is a crime, you know, that you can't be anonymous unless you're up to something, and I think that's something that's definitely wrong.
[01:00:29.420 --> 01:00:33.640]  I hadn't heard about the fire department thing, though, but it does remind me of the way high school kids are treated.
[01:00:33.760 --> 01:00:38.840]  If they have a website that's critical of their school in their own home, and they actually get in trouble for that.
[01:00:39.020 --> 01:00:40.860]  Well, it has been known for this.
[01:00:40.960 --> 01:00:44.000]  There was that issue with the seaman in the Navy.
[01:00:44.200 --> 01:00:44.460]  Uh-huh.
[01:00:44.560 --> 01:00:45.080]  That's definitely it.
[01:00:45.080 --> 01:00:47.240]  Yeah, uh, who, um...
[01:00:47.240 --> 01:00:48.760]  We only have like 10 seconds to make it quick.
[01:00:48.760 --> 01:00:56.620]  Yeah, I'm sorry, who, uh, uh, it was investigated that he was gay and whatever else because of his AOL, uh, uh, profile and whatever, and so forth.
[01:00:57.080 --> 01:01:02.760]  If you're interested in, uh, name.space, reclaim the net is, I think, linked to it, so it's reclaim.net.
[01:01:03.320 --> 01:01:05.520]  Name.space.xs2.net.
[01:01:05.640 --> 01:01:06.980]  Okay, that's the address I was looking for.
[01:01:07.040 --> 01:01:07.240]  Great.
[01:01:07.700 --> 01:01:08.540]  All right, we're out of time.
[01:01:09.020 --> 01:01:12.040]  Uh, we'll be back again next week talking about this and other issues, I'm sure.
[01:01:12.500 --> 01:01:18.020]  Uh, you can write to us, O-T-H at 2600.com, or through the mail, if anybody still wants to do that.
[01:01:18.140 --> 01:01:22.260]  Off the hook, care of WBAI, 120 Wall Street, New York, New York, 10005.
[01:01:22.660 --> 01:01:24.340]  For Isaac and the rest, Emmanuel Goldstein, goodnight.
[01:01:25.480 --> 01:01:29.880]  We couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
[01:01:30.140 --> 01:01:32.820]  Bum-dilly-bump, but the best, expect the worst.
[01:01:33.720 --> 01:01:35.360]  I hope that's understood.
[01:01:35.720 --> 01:01:36.460]  Bum-dilly-bump!