[00:22.810 --> 00:24.850]  This is Nancy Rodriguez.
[00:25.230 --> 00:38.570]  Join me and co-host Chico Alvarez for a concert benefiting WBAI and saluting the life, legend, and music of El Rey Tito Fuente, Friday, November 10th at 9 p.m.
[00:38.730 --> 00:47.530]  This celebration takes place at the Latin Quarter, located at 96th Street and Broadway, and will feature the Tito Fuente Orchestra.
[00:47.530 --> 00:59.670]  Special invited guests include the son of Latin music, Eddie Palmieri, and New York's premier charanga band, Los Jóvenes del Barrio, featuring Johnny Amendra and Jillian.
[01:00.190 --> 01:08.370]  So join us in this celebration of Latin music's leading ambassador, Tito Fuente, Friday, November 10th at 9 p.m.
[01:08.730 --> 01:11.550]  at the Latin Quarter, 96th Street and Broadway.
[01:11.550 --> 01:19.650]  Tickets are $35, and for more information and tickets, call 212-255-4834.
[01:19.770 --> 01:24.210]  That's 212-255-4834.
[01:32.840 --> 01:33.720]  8 p.m.
[01:33.740 --> 01:38.700]  here on radio station WBAI in New York, which means it's time for Off the Hook.
[04:04.100 --> 04:05.020]  Yes, that's right.
[04:05.020 --> 04:08.560]  It's yet another edition of Off the Hook here on radio station WBAI.
[04:08.680 --> 04:09.200]  Good morning, Isaac.
[04:09.200 --> 04:10.060]  Oh, good.
[04:10.380 --> 04:10.900]  Wait a second.
[04:10.980 --> 04:11.620]  Whatever, whatever.
[04:11.800 --> 04:12.700]  Just play along.
[04:12.820 --> 04:13.020]  Okay.
[04:13.340 --> 04:13.900]  How are you doing?
[04:14.180 --> 04:15.440]  You had your cup of coffee yet, or...?
[04:15.440 --> 04:16.200]  No, I don't drink coffee.
[04:16.360 --> 04:19.600]  I'm not a coffee type, unless I'm in desperate straits.
[04:20.340 --> 04:21.300]  And Mike is here, too.
[04:21.520 --> 04:27.660]  Mike from Columbia, the college, not the country, which in some ways is a country by itself.
[04:29.000 --> 04:31.740]  And we've had a very interesting week, as always.
[04:32.360 --> 04:33.060]  It's been long.
[04:33.060 --> 04:34.760]  It's been a frustrating week in some ways.
[04:35.280 --> 04:39.200]  Well, let's start with the really interesting stuff first.
[04:39.460 --> 04:48.860]  The interesting thing being that I finally met eye-to-eye, face-to-face, eyeball-to-eyeball, with Jack Valente, head of the MPAA.
[04:49.160 --> 04:50.660]  The guy you make t-shirts out of.
[04:50.720 --> 04:50.920]  Yeah.
[04:51.460 --> 04:53.040]  Well, I don't make t-shirts out of him.
[04:53.140 --> 04:53.960]  Oh, I'm sorry.
[04:54.540 --> 04:56.740]  You put pictures of his face on your t-shirts.
[04:56.740 --> 04:57.080]  Exactly.
[04:58.820 --> 05:00.320]  And they're quite popular, in fact.
[05:00.800 --> 05:01.760]  Is he as tall as you?
[05:02.900 --> 05:03.540]  He's about...
[05:04.140 --> 05:06.700]  I don't want to get into, you know, height...
[05:06.700 --> 05:09.340]  Well, I mean, I'm just saying, you wouldn't have met him eye-to-eye.
[05:09.340 --> 05:11.000]  I'll just say he's not as tall as me.
[05:11.080 --> 05:11.540]  No, he's not.
[05:11.680 --> 05:11.920]  He's not.
[05:12.060 --> 05:13.660]  Says he's like crouched down to meet him at eye.
[05:13.720 --> 05:16.900]  Look, I'm not going to say things like that, because I've got so many other things on my side.
[05:16.900 --> 05:18.660]  I don't need to say things like that, all right?
[05:18.740 --> 05:19.280]  I'm just curious.
[05:19.560 --> 05:24.320]  It was definitely a fascinating situation to be in.
[05:24.520 --> 05:25.380]  I found out about it.
[05:25.380 --> 05:28.380]  Well, okay, there are several parts of this story.
[05:29.840 --> 05:37.540]  And to really understand why we didn't tell anybody about this, you have to understand that we didn't have any net access for five days.
[05:37.840 --> 05:40.920]  And that's a whole story in and of itself, which I'll get into afterwards.
[05:41.080 --> 05:55.400]  But let's just make that a given, that we didn't have any net access for five days, so we couldn't tell anybody that, yeah, Jack Valente was appearing at Harvard University in this debate, a real debate, not the kind of debate that's going on tonight up in the same city in Boston.
[05:55.760 --> 05:56.860]  The joint press conference tonight.
[05:57.120 --> 05:57.660]  Yeah, it's unbelievable.
[05:58.020 --> 05:59.300]  This was a real debate.
[05:59.940 --> 06:10.220]  And Jack Valente was actually going to be spouting forth and saying, you know, things that he believed in.
[06:10.220 --> 06:23.020]  And, you know, this was a chance for anybody, anybody who was there, anybody who was on the net that chose to listen in, to ask questions, be heard, just listen to the kinds of things that were being said.
[06:24.340 --> 06:35.340]  And the other, the person on the other side was attorney Larry Lessig, who was, I think, extremely well-spoken on the whole issue of, well, the topic was the future of intellectual property on the internet.
[06:37.100 --> 06:39.240]  And they really went at it for quite a while.
[06:39.380 --> 06:42.820]  But the funny thing was, and this is available, this is available on the net right now.
[06:42.820 --> 07:00.720]  In fact, if you go to, uh, uh, http colon slash slash cyber dot law dot harvard dot edu slash one word future of IP, uh, you should see on there a real video, uh, production or a real audio maybe, uh, of the whole thing.
[07:00.900 --> 07:02.780]  And you can hear everything that was said.
[07:02.860 --> 07:15.020]  But, uh, some of the things that you'll hear there were Larry Lessig trying to get Jack Valente to, uh, you know, to explain some of the positions he was coming up with, you know, some of the, the, the crazy things he was saying, because he would just say things like,
[07:15.080 --> 07:16.160]  well, you know, I disagree with you.
[07:17.400 --> 07:18.300]  Well, that's nice.
[07:18.560 --> 07:18.640]  Yeah.
[07:19.000 --> 07:20.720]  And, and, and, and, and, and, and stealing is bad.
[07:21.040 --> 07:21.800]  Things like that.
[07:21.900 --> 07:21.960]  Yeah.
[07:22.060 --> 07:34.080]  But, but I mean, more, more controversial things like, you know, uh, people who read things are thieves and, you know, just basically things that you do not necessarily understand and need to have explained.
[07:34.080 --> 07:48.140]  And so he would, he would basically, uh, counter Larry Lessig's rather, I think, well-prepared remarks of, of just what intellectual property is and what it is not, uh, with, uh, well, I don't agree with that.
[07:48.260 --> 07:51.560]  And, uh, they, people would ask, well, what do you mean?
[07:51.660 --> 07:52.640]  And, well, that's all I'm going to say.
[07:52.720 --> 07:53.360]  I just don't agree.
[07:54.240 --> 07:59.120]  And it's, it's customary when you, when you say you don't agree to explain why you don't agree, especially in a debate.
[07:59.340 --> 08:01.220]  But, uh, what are you going to do?
[08:01.280 --> 08:02.800]  Anyway, I got to, I got to ask a question.
[08:02.940 --> 08:04.440]  I was the first person to the microphone.
[08:04.680 --> 08:08.400]  In fact, it was quite a, oh, I can, I can see all the people being pushed away.
[08:08.400 --> 08:14.120]  Yeah, well, I was in, I was, I sat right next to the microphone, in fact, so all I had to do was pop up and, uh, and ask my question.
[08:14.200 --> 08:16.420]  My question basically revolved around, uh...
[08:16.420 --> 08:17.300]  Did you identify yourself?
[08:17.620 --> 08:18.200]  Yeah, I did.
[08:18.300 --> 08:21.520]  But, you know, unbeknownst to me, it seemed like everybody there knew who I was already.
[08:22.500 --> 08:24.940]  Because they all laughed when I, when I got up to the microphone.
[08:25.140 --> 08:25.260]  Hello.
[08:25.480 --> 08:25.860]  Which is kind of funny.
[08:26.400 --> 08:31.420]  Um, but, uh, yeah, I asked, well, you know, can you please help me define what a, what a thief is?
[08:31.520 --> 08:35.720]  Because, you know, from this lawsuit that, uh, that you just won, you know, it's a good sport.
[08:35.720 --> 08:37.260]  I congratulated him on, on, on winning.
[08:37.840 --> 08:40.600]  Uh, you know, how, how do you define...
[08:40.600 --> 08:40.820]  He didn't win yet.
[08:41.040 --> 08:42.340]  Well, they won the lawsuit.
[08:42.580 --> 08:48.440]  They didn't win the appeal, which is a whole other kettle of fish, which is, is, is, you know, being, being cooked right now.
[08:48.920 --> 08:53.140]  Uh, but, um, you know, from this lawsuit, I thought I understood what a thief was.
[08:53.220 --> 09:00.120]  I thought a thief was, you know, someone who stole something, took something without permission, uh, you know, and, and, and profited from it in some way, perhaps.
[09:00.480 --> 09:11.580]  So, maybe like the people across the street from the trial who were selling pirated videotapes of films that are in the theater right now, you know, people who are still on that very street corner to this day, not harassed by anybody.
[09:11.860 --> 09:13.820]  You know, I, I, I think of those people as thieves.
[09:14.000 --> 09:18.320]  Apparently, they're, they're of no concern to the MPAA because even though they know about them, they're not doing anything to stop it.
[09:18.320 --> 09:32.100]  Um, but it turns out from this lawsuit that, uh, a thief is, is, is not only somebody who steals, but somebody who, uh, writes a program that a thief could use conceivably to steal, even though no one has ever done that yet.
[09:32.100 --> 09:34.820]  It could potentially be, uh, used in that manner.
[09:34.880 --> 09:35.760]  That person's a thief too.
[09:35.880 --> 09:45.880]  And it goes beyond that, that somebody who reports on the person who wrote the program is also a thief by reporting on it and revealing what the source code says.
[09:45.880 --> 09:50.140]  And beyond that, somebody who links to the person who reports the story.
[09:50.280 --> 09:52.600]  I just wanted to know, where is this going to end?
[09:52.740 --> 09:54.980]  How far, how far are you going to go with this?
[09:55.280 --> 09:59.880]  And, and, you know, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act obviously, uh, allows you to do this.
[10:00.420 --> 10:04.020]  Uh, so why shouldn't we be scared of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act?
[10:04.100 --> 10:06.460]  And I think what his response to that was, what's the question?
[10:07.800 --> 10:13.980]  Uh, so I, I didn't really get much of an answer from him, but, uh, I got a sense that the crowd was behind me.
[10:14.180 --> 10:14.820]  He knew who you were?
[10:14.960 --> 10:15.420]  Oh, yeah.
[10:15.420 --> 10:16.780]  Yeah, yeah, he knew who I was, all right.
[10:17.140 --> 10:23.460]  You know, when he, when he focuses, you know, you and it, with a riveting gaze of his, it's, uh, pretty frightening.
[10:23.860 --> 10:29.100]  He really, I mean, those eyes can, he could stare down an army with those things, but, uh...
[10:29.100 --> 10:30.060]  I think he has.
[10:30.920 --> 10:31.880]  Well, in any way...
[10:31.880 --> 10:38.320]  It's very interesting, because even though he didn't make any sense or have any logical, coherent argument, he was a very good persuasive speaker.
[10:38.660 --> 10:45.920]  Well, because he'd always, like, go into something, well, you know, I, I guess I'm no hound dog lying on the porch on a July afternoon, but I do know one thing.
[10:46.020 --> 10:51.960]  You know, you go into these long tangents of, like, you know, good old country boy sayings that didn't make any sense, it didn't apply to the situation at all.
[10:52.100 --> 10:53.360]  But it could sway a lot of people.
[10:53.560 --> 10:54.860]  I don't think it swayed anybody then.
[10:54.860 --> 10:55.760]  Not, not in that room.
[10:55.920 --> 10:55.980]  Yeah.
[10:55.980 --> 10:56.940]  But it could.
[10:57.100 --> 10:58.200]  Because those were intelligent people.
[10:59.020 --> 11:00.360]  Maybe in Congress that worked.
[11:00.500 --> 11:01.820]  I can't, you know, in Congress that would work.
[11:01.960 --> 11:07.360]  That would definitely work, because those are exactly the kind of people you want to, you know, the constituents and that kind of thing.
[11:09.040 --> 11:09.680]  But, um...
[11:10.160 --> 11:11.040]  It was, it was fun.
[11:11.140 --> 11:13.640]  I'm glad, I'm glad we went up there to, uh, to check that out.
[11:13.700 --> 11:14.640]  We also saw Ralph Nader.
[11:15.420 --> 11:16.020]  Yeah, Ralph Nader.
[11:16.060 --> 11:16.880]  He was at the same event?
[11:16.920 --> 11:17.920]  No, he was at the same event.
[11:18.120 --> 11:21.280]  Although it's exactly the kind of thing I'd expect to see him at, but of course he's been pretty busy.
[11:21.280 --> 11:27.460]  He was at Boston Garden, which you may know as the Fleet Center now, because they named it after a corporation, after they tore down the old one.
[11:28.080 --> 11:30.160]  But, uh, I still call it Boston Garden.
[11:31.120 --> 11:34.520]  Um, and he spoke before 12,000 people.
[11:35.160 --> 11:37.520]  Again, you know, this is, this keeps happening.
[11:37.540 --> 11:38.340]  I never heard of this.
[11:38.480 --> 11:38.940]  Yeah, I know.
[11:39.020 --> 11:39.800]  It's never in the news.
[11:39.920 --> 11:40.920]  You never hear about this kind of...
[11:40.920 --> 11:47.080]  I mean, for all we know, Pat Buchanan's having rallies with 100,000 people, like, you know, in some forest someplace in the middle of West Virginia.
[11:47.240 --> 11:50.020]  We don't know these things, because they're not reported on the news anywhere.
[11:50.020 --> 11:57.120]  But I gotta say, Ralph has been getting more publicity lately than, than I've seen him getting in many weeks.
[11:57.200 --> 11:59.320]  And I think a lot of that has to do with people demanding it.
[11:59.440 --> 12:03.640]  People calling CNN, people calling Fox and saying, you know, you can't ignore the news.
[12:03.780 --> 12:04.680]  Put this, put this guy on.
[12:04.740 --> 12:05.480]  He was on Letterman.
[12:05.640 --> 12:07.460]  He was on, uh, uh, Larry King.
[12:07.660 --> 12:12.720]  And I'd like to see what the coverage is like tonight of the so-called debates and what's going on outside.
[12:12.720 --> 12:14.860]  I believe, uh, Ralph Nader is outside the debates.
[12:14.900 --> 12:15.860]  Now we'll have to go inside.
[12:16.500 --> 12:17.880]  And I think Pat Buchanan is there, too.
[12:17.880 --> 12:20.980]  It was weird, I was watching Pat Buchanan last night on Larry King as well.
[12:21.660 --> 12:24.700]  And, you know, he was talking about the debates, and I agreed with everything he said.
[12:25.060 --> 12:26.160]  Believe me, that scares me.
[12:26.200 --> 12:26.780]  Isn't that remarkable?
[12:27.080 --> 12:27.540]  That scares me.
[12:27.620 --> 12:31.140]  And he was saying that Ralph Nader should be in the debates, and Ralph Nader was saying Pat Buchanan should be in the debates.
[12:31.520 --> 12:34.800]  And, you know, I think opposition is a very important, uh, thing to study.
[12:35.480 --> 12:39.680]  You know, when, when, when you're on the outside, it doesn't matter who your opponent is.
[12:39.680 --> 12:41.220]  It just matters that you want to be heard.
[12:41.820 --> 12:44.800]  And I think that's, that's the thing that's most important that we should never, uh, forget.
[12:45.040 --> 12:46.120]  People deserve to be heard.
[12:46.240 --> 12:50.960]  Well, if they're both going to be there, I think they should just debate, uh, between each other, like, on the steps of the place.
[12:51.080 --> 12:51.240]  Uh-huh.
[12:51.360 --> 12:52.040]  They should do something.
[12:52.140 --> 12:53.340]  They should do something creative.
[12:53.580 --> 12:54.400]  Or, you know, some network.
[12:54.580 --> 12:57.760]  I heard some network was going to do this, uh, but, but backed out or something.
[12:57.920 --> 13:03.880]  That they were going to have Ralph Nader on TV, um, basically answering whatever question was asked of Bush and Gore.
[13:04.420 --> 13:04.800]  You know.
[13:04.800 --> 13:06.880]  Oh, he just answers them at some point.
[13:06.880 --> 13:08.960]  Yeah, I think that'd be kind of, uh, kind of cool.
[13:09.500 --> 13:12.560]  But anyway, we'd like to, we'd like to invite all of the candidates.
[13:12.860 --> 13:15.640]  Not that any of them are listening now, because, of course, they're involved with the debates.
[13:15.780 --> 13:16.620]  Otherwise, they would be listening.
[13:17.240 --> 13:21.920]  Uh, but, uh, we want, we want to know what these candidates have to say about the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.
[13:21.980 --> 13:23.480]  Now, we pretty much know what Gore's going to say.
[13:23.600 --> 13:26.780]  Gore's going to be for it because, well, everybody in Congress voted for it.
[13:26.880 --> 13:29.560]  And, you know, technically, he cast tie-breaking votes.
[13:29.660 --> 13:32.100]  So, I'm sure he wouldn't have, uh, gone against what everybody else said.
[13:32.560 --> 13:35.920]  I don't think Bush is going to be against it either, because he's pretty much in the status quo.
[13:35.920 --> 13:49.800]  But I'd like to know what the, uh, alternative candidates have to say about the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, a thing that, that pretty much criminalizes reverse engineering and makes possible such things as the MPAA lawsuit against us and all the other horrible things that are happening right now.
[13:50.060 --> 13:53.320]  Um, the, uh, Napster trial started yesterday.
[13:53.700 --> 13:54.140]  Yes.
[13:54.420 --> 13:58.020]  And I wasn't expecting it to be the top story on the news everywhere, but it is.
[13:58.600 --> 13:59.440]  Slow news, then.
[13:59.980 --> 14:00.600]  Well, I don't know.
[14:00.720 --> 14:03.140]  I think a lot of people are following that particular case.
[14:03.140 --> 14:07.280]  It's, uh, I still don't understand, what is illegal about Napster itself?
[14:08.180 --> 14:08.560]  You know?
[14:09.280 --> 14:10.640]  Illegal things can go on.
[14:10.780 --> 14:12.920]  As an entity of Napster, as in the...
[14:12.920 --> 14:14.100]  Well, Napster, the program.
[14:14.300 --> 14:15.380]  It's a program, right?
[14:15.540 --> 14:17.380]  Oh, that allows people to share files.
[14:17.580 --> 14:18.640]  It allows people to share files.
[14:18.780 --> 14:23.100]  Now, those files can be copyrighted material, but they don't have to be.
[14:23.220 --> 14:24.380]  They can be whatever you want.
[14:24.900 --> 14:31.460]  And Napster doesn't dictate saying that you have to break copyright laws in order to use Napster, unless I'm mistaken.
[14:31.700 --> 14:32.000]  Yeah.
[14:32.140 --> 14:39.920]  So, it seems to me that the quarrel, if there is one, with trading copyrighted material should be with the people that are actually trading copyrighted material.
[14:39.940 --> 14:41.200]  Engaging in that activity, yes.
[14:41.360 --> 14:43.900]  I don't understand what the purpose of this whole thing is.
[14:44.000 --> 14:47.080]  I haven't understood any of these lawsuits that are happening, including the one against me.
[14:47.160 --> 14:49.680]  Napster is a big target that they can just point at.
[14:49.800 --> 14:51.660]  Right, but it's not the right target.
[14:51.860 --> 14:52.080]  No.
[14:52.160 --> 14:53.640]  It may be illegal under the DMCA.
[14:54.500 --> 14:55.440]  Yeah, that's just it.
[14:55.840 --> 15:03.760]  Again, this DMCA rears its head, saying that because it facilitates this kind of thing, it's, well, you know, a telephone then is going to become illegal pretty fast.
[15:04.860 --> 15:08.340]  You know, your thought processes and your vocal cords and all that kind of thing.
[15:09.680 --> 15:14.320]  I found this interesting site, greedytv.org.
[15:15.180 --> 15:17.200]  Yeah, they have some ads in various places.
[15:17.200 --> 15:30.180]  It's a combination of people, League of Women Voters, Media Access Project, National Civic League, People for Better TV, Center for Media Education, Civil Rights Forum, Communications Policy, all kinds of other people.
[15:30.700 --> 15:34.100]  Everybody hates political ads except your local television station.
[15:34.600 --> 15:39.260]  This year, TV stations will sell more political ads than fast food ads.
[15:39.400 --> 15:42.000]  They'll make up to $1 billion on democracy.
[15:42.000 --> 15:51.860]  Visit greedytv.org to find out which local stations are profiteering the most on Campaign 2000 and doing the least to inform their viewers about candidates' positions on issues.
[15:52.080 --> 15:53.780]  Or call toll-free 1-866.
[15:54.500 --> 15:55.640]  Ooh, 1-866.
[15:55.840 --> 15:56.580]  I haven't heard one of those yet.
[15:56.860 --> 15:58.440]  1-866-GREDY-TV.
[15:59.880 --> 16:00.680]  Because, Isaac...
[16:00.680 --> 16:01.580]  I think I've heard one more.
[16:01.680 --> 16:03.960]  The airwaves don't belong to the broadcast industry.
[16:04.100 --> 16:05.400]  They belong to the rest of us.
[16:08.020 --> 16:08.860]  Well, they do.
[16:09.020 --> 16:09.540]  They do.
[16:10.640 --> 16:11.480]  They really do.
[16:11.480 --> 16:17.360]  And if you don't believe me, try and do a radio show like this in any other radio station in this city, in any other radio station in this country.
[16:17.500 --> 16:18.300]  You can't.
[16:18.780 --> 16:21.180]  Except for, you know, some college stations and things like that.
[16:22.200 --> 16:22.660]  All right.
[16:22.740 --> 16:25.140]  Now to the problems that we had.
[16:25.460 --> 16:26.980]  A couple of interesting problems, actually.
[16:28.920 --> 16:29.640]  The outage.
[16:30.160 --> 16:31.120]  The net outage.
[16:31.380 --> 16:33.140]  You were there at the end of, actually.
[16:33.280 --> 16:33.980]  You finally...
[16:33.980 --> 16:35.340]  Well, I wound up in the middle of it, too.
[16:35.540 --> 16:35.980]  Well, yeah.
[16:36.340 --> 16:37.440]  We were all in the middle of it.
[16:38.040 --> 16:42.620]  But basically, if you go to our website, you'll see pretty much a rundown of the whole saga.
[16:42.780 --> 16:50.520]  Starting last Thursday, when unbeknownst to anybody, for what reason, our connectivity just sort of miraculously disappeared.
[16:50.700 --> 16:52.800]  It's the third time this has happened in a month and a half.
[16:54.000 --> 16:56.260]  And, of course, nobody had any explanation.
[16:56.540 --> 16:58.920]  And Verizon people were dispatched to the site.
[16:59.840 --> 17:01.280]  They couldn't make it there until Friday.
[17:02.020 --> 17:03.860]  And Friday, of course, this is always what happens.
[17:04.320 --> 17:07.700]  We ask them to tell us when they're going to come so we can make sure somebody's there.
[17:07.840 --> 17:09.600]  And then they come before they do that.
[17:09.700 --> 17:11.160]  And they say, nobody's here.
[17:11.300 --> 17:11.960]  We're going to go.
[17:12.840 --> 17:13.020]  Goodbye.
[17:13.360 --> 17:16.220]  And then they leave and tell us we were there, but nobody was there.
[17:16.280 --> 17:17.480]  And, of course, you idiots.
[17:17.640 --> 17:19.660]  Nobody was there because you didn't tell us you were going to be there.
[17:20.060 --> 17:21.120]  So please come back.
[17:21.200 --> 17:24.660]  And they say, okay, we'll come back sometime between 5 and 9.
[17:25.080 --> 17:27.400]  5 and 9.30, I think, was the time range I got.
[17:28.180 --> 17:30.380]  Nine o'clock they call and say, nope, we can't make it, sorry.
[17:31.580 --> 17:36.120]  We'll be there tomorrow at a certain time, so we have to scramble to meet them on Saturday.
[17:36.760 --> 17:38.640]  And we have people waiting for them on Saturday.
[17:38.840 --> 17:42.580]  The guy finally shows up, messes around with something, and then just disappears.
[17:42.920 --> 17:43.260]  Gone.
[17:43.520 --> 17:43.860]  Leaves.
[17:44.780 --> 17:50.000]  And not only that, closes the ticket and says, you know, I fixed it, it's gone, the problem's over.
[17:50.060 --> 17:52.380]  And he didn't, because it didn't work, not for a second.
[17:53.320 --> 17:59.600]  And so, this kind of nonsense went on, back and forth, and it finally ended late Monday.
[18:01.540 --> 18:07.240]  And I'll tell you, this is what happens when you have a single entity controlling everything.
[18:07.460 --> 18:18.920]  And the problem is, even though we don't use Verizon as our provider, as the people who give us the T1, the people who do give us the T1 have to use Verizon for the end copper installation, whatever.
[18:19.360 --> 18:22.620]  And they told me, they said on the phone, you know, this happens all the time.
[18:22.800 --> 18:23.060]  Oh, yeah.
[18:23.320 --> 18:31.760]  This happens all the time because we're actually competing with Verizon, and it's in Verizon's interest to really annoy the customers so that they wind up dropping us and using them.
[18:32.600 --> 18:34.880]  I mean, what kind of a system is this?
[18:34.880 --> 18:35.680]  This is insane.
[18:35.900 --> 18:37.780]  This is completely, totally crazy.
[18:38.540 --> 18:43.100]  We've gotten a lot of letters from people since we posted this saga on our website.
[18:43.100 --> 18:49.520]  And that's why we couldn't tell anybody about the Jack Valenny thing in Boston, because we had no communication.
[18:49.800 --> 18:50.180]  It's that easy.
[18:50.260 --> 18:53.160]  Just take somebody off the net so that they can't communicate.
[18:53.160 --> 18:55.200]  It's really kind of scary.
[18:58.300 --> 19:00.740]  Here's a letter from somebody who wrote in.
[19:00.920 --> 19:05.900]  After days of trying to get onto your website, I finally managed it, and I am not surprised to find out exactly why I couldn't access your site.
[19:06.440 --> 19:09.700]  This whole situation 2600 has been going through is really getting beyond a joke.
[19:09.920 --> 19:14.860]  How long are your free speech and basic civil rights going to be abused in this manner by power and money-crazed people?
[19:15.000 --> 19:20.940]  Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say that Verizon intentionally disconnected your T1 to prevent you from speaking out.
[19:21.200 --> 19:24.680]  My view on that is, does it really matter if it was intentional or not?
[19:24.680 --> 19:26.880]  The effect is the same, whether it's through malice or incompetence.
[19:27.760 --> 19:45.440]  The fact of the matter is, we're so dependent on these idiots to do these things that if they spent more time, like I've said before, if they spent more time on the network, less time threatening people, you know, who criticized them, then maybe these kinds of things wouldn't happen if it's incompetence.
[19:45.800 --> 19:48.380]  You know, or if it's something deliberate, then who knows?
[19:48.520 --> 19:49.980]  Who knows what's behind it?
[19:50.060 --> 19:51.540]  You'll never find out, that's for sure.
[19:51.740 --> 19:59.920]  All I do know is that if we were Bloomberg or something like that, and this happened to us, you know, imagine being taken off the net for an hour if you're some big corporation.
[19:59.920 --> 20:01.900]  It's on, it's the headlines, you know.
[20:02.040 --> 20:02.940]  What is the difference?
[20:03.160 --> 20:04.260]  This is denial of service.
[20:04.520 --> 20:06.300]  It's denial of service in the other direction.
[20:06.760 --> 20:15.100]  You know, a big corporation on the other end, just, you know, not providing service when they're supposed to, not fixing it when they're supposed to, and the people on the other end suffer.
[20:15.160 --> 20:18.240]  This happens all the time, but the people don't have a voice.
[20:19.120 --> 20:21.400]  So, they suffer, nothing happens.
[20:21.780 --> 20:23.040]  Anyway, let me finish with the letter.
[20:23.880 --> 20:29.140]  Corporations, large or small, should not have the ability to wield such power over ordinary individual people or groups.
[20:29.140 --> 20:30.220]  Well, we're not ordinary, are we?
[20:31.260 --> 20:32.000]  I like to think...
[20:32.000 --> 20:34.580]  Well, I'm generally regarded as strange, so...
[20:34.580 --> 20:34.820]  Yeah.
[20:35.920 --> 20:45.980]  Anyway, they should be providing a decent service for a fair price, but instead, they, along with others, are intent on fleecing the innocent public of all their money, whilst suppressing them at the same time.
[20:46.140 --> 20:47.440]  What has gone wrong with the world?
[20:47.500 --> 20:48.020]  It's crazy.
[20:48.660 --> 20:58.400]  Recently, I came across an article on www.tomshardware.com, which details how to make a copy of a DVD for your own purposes.
[20:58.660 --> 21:01.480]  The article goes on to explain how to turn that copy into a DivX.
[21:01.740 --> 21:06.960]  At no point does it mention DECSS, because as most sensible people know, DECSS is not for copying DVDs.
[21:07.300 --> 21:10.240]  Anyway, has the MPAA brought an injunction against this site?
[21:10.340 --> 21:11.200]  Not that I'm aware of.
[21:11.540 --> 21:13.000]  That letter comes from Jingster.
[21:14.440 --> 21:15.620]  Here's another letter.
[21:15.700 --> 21:18.700]  Just thought I would send you a couple of comments on your Verizon sucks news.
[21:18.880 --> 21:25.380]  And, by the way, verizonreallysucks.com now points to that story, because now we've got a good story that fits the site.
[21:25.640 --> 21:25.880]  Okay.
[21:26.120 --> 21:27.020]  I feel your pain.
[21:27.200 --> 21:29.480]  The thing is, though, this doesn't just happen to you.
[21:29.900 --> 21:36.280]  I work at one of the largest real estate corporations in the U.S., and we get the same runaround that you guys do.
[21:36.360 --> 21:42.260]  Admittedly, we are not dealing with Verizon, but we have dealt with several providers, all of which provide pretty much the same crappy service.
[21:42.260 --> 21:47.820]  It recently took me over a month to bring one of our T1 WAN lines back up, after it went down for some unexplained reason.
[21:48.380 --> 21:52.860]  Apparently, these providers go through such convoluted bureaucracy, they don't know what the other is doing.
[21:53.460 --> 22:00.340]  It seems the demand for these services is so huge right now that these companies can pretty much treat everybody, except for the biggest of the big corporations, however they like.
[22:01.260 --> 22:07.020]  This bit of knowledge was confided to me by one of the techs, who was sent out to fix our line after I vented my frustration upon him.
[22:07.820 --> 22:08.640]  And that's just it.
[22:08.780 --> 22:09.780]  Yeah, leave the techs alone.
[22:09.960 --> 22:11.180]  You know, they're doing the best they can.
[22:11.180 --> 22:12.400]  And they just get issued marching.
[22:12.400 --> 22:13.340]  I don't know about that.
[22:13.460 --> 22:19.080]  The guy was, like, smoking in our basement, you know, just having a coffee break and then leaving without telling anybody what he did.
[22:19.280 --> 22:21.440]  That's... I like to vent some frustration on that.
[22:21.440 --> 22:22.960]  Well, the guy who was there when I was there was very nice.
[22:23.040 --> 22:25.460]  He knew what was going on, and he didn't leave until the thing was working.
[22:25.460 --> 22:26.600]  Okay, but here's the other thing, all right?
[22:26.960 --> 22:30.160]  The company that we did have to deal with, we had to deal with them.
[22:30.280 --> 22:33.420]  We even called Verizon, and Verizon said, we're not allowed to talk to you.
[22:33.500 --> 22:34.540]  We have to talk to the other company.
[22:34.600 --> 22:35.760]  We can't talk to the customer.
[22:35.760 --> 22:36.440]  We don't do that.
[22:36.480 --> 22:37.380]  We don't talk to the customer.
[22:38.420 --> 22:43.240]  So, the other company said, you know, well, you know, it's Verizon's fault.
[22:43.440 --> 22:45.520]  We've, you know, it's not our problem.
[22:46.240 --> 22:50.940]  And you have to tell them, well, look, you know, if we can't talk to Verizon, you're going to get the brunt of it.
[22:51.300 --> 22:56.440]  Because, you know, with these stupid rules, if we're not allowed to talk to the people responsible, we have to go to the step below that.
[22:56.520 --> 22:57.780]  And that's you, so it's your fault.
[22:58.280 --> 22:59.880]  Well, that's how you have to do it.
[23:00.080 --> 23:02.280]  Who are you going to vent your frustration on?
[23:02.340 --> 23:02.660]  Nobody?
[23:03.060 --> 23:04.700]  You know, the family dog?
[23:04.700 --> 23:05.020]  What?
[23:05.100 --> 23:05.640]  Who gets it?
[23:06.200 --> 23:09.860]  You know, somebody has to be held accountable when things like this happen.
[23:10.020 --> 23:11.180]  Five days off the net.
[23:11.340 --> 23:11.480]  Yeah.
[23:12.120 --> 23:13.240]  I mean, come on.
[23:14.100 --> 23:14.560]  That's it?
[23:14.620 --> 23:15.900]  We're just supposed to forget about it?
[23:16.060 --> 23:16.860]  All these things happen?
[23:17.500 --> 23:18.860]  And what was the problem in the end?
[23:18.900 --> 23:20.140]  It was a card that had to be replaced.
[23:20.200 --> 23:21.940]  The card that they say was flaky.
[23:22.180 --> 23:23.080]  A flaky card.
[23:23.800 --> 23:25.300]  It should have been the first thing they did.
[23:25.300 --> 23:27.660]  And in fact, they replaced it with another flaky card.
[23:27.880 --> 23:28.980]  It was a two-fold problem.
[23:29.360 --> 23:34.640]  I mean, there was an issue downstairs where the copper became separated because they were doing work at some other point.
[23:34.640 --> 23:37.140]  I doubt the two things happened at the exact same moment.
[23:37.240 --> 23:38.660]  Well, one probably caused the other.
[23:38.760 --> 23:39.500]  Well, probably...
[23:39.500 --> 23:40.440]  All right, that's possible.
[23:40.740 --> 23:42.420]  But still, these things happen all the time.
[23:42.620 --> 23:45.080]  You know, they should be able to figure it out.
[23:45.160 --> 23:56.440]  Also keep in mind that Verizon is primarily a company that has dealt in voice, where you have a pair of copper going everywhere, and somebody picks up the phone, and the most difficult thing they have to deal with is hiss on a line.
[23:56.580 --> 24:01.660]  And then the age of digital communications, where the slightest pop winds up completely destroying everything.
[24:01.680 --> 24:06.460]  Yeah, but you see, Isaac, the age of digital communications has been upon us now for about a decade, and I think they've had enough time.
[24:06.720 --> 24:11.720]  And certainly, you know, laying off all the people they've laid off, maybe they should hire some of them back, you know, to help them out.
[24:11.720 --> 24:13.120]  So they're so short-staffed.
[24:13.220 --> 24:14.700]  That's always the complaint I hear.
[24:14.960 --> 24:15.980]  Oh, there's just not enough people.
[24:16.080 --> 24:20.040]  Well, you know, guys are making enough money with all the automation, all the people you're laying off.
[24:20.040 --> 24:22.900]  Maybe they should hire some more people that can do this kind of thing.
[24:23.000 --> 24:25.460]  There's no excuse to wait five days to get your service back.
[24:25.960 --> 24:34.700]  You know, you should have the same quality of service to everybody, the lousy service for everybody, or good service for everybody, but not, you know, the privileged few.
[24:36.060 --> 24:37.440]  As the head of tech support...
[24:37.440 --> 24:39.060]  Are you planning on billing them for your downtime?
[24:39.240 --> 24:39.760]  How do I do that?
[24:39.900 --> 24:40.480]  How do I do that?
[24:40.560 --> 24:41.040]  Send them a bill.
[24:41.880 --> 24:42.480]  Send them a bill.
[24:42.540 --> 24:43.920]  I might as well just send bills to everybody.
[24:44.040 --> 24:45.520]  I mean, come on, no one's going to take that seriously.
[24:45.680 --> 24:49.300]  And I'll probably get indicted for fraud for sending a bill that they didn't sign up for.
[24:49.720 --> 24:54.740]  You were down, you were denied service, this is how much money you lost, you demand that they provide you with them.
[24:54.780 --> 24:55.380]  You think that's a good idea?
[24:55.540 --> 24:55.860]  Go ahead.
[24:56.000 --> 24:57.900]  Okay, well, let's work on it after the show.
[24:58.120 --> 24:58.320]  Okay.
[24:58.440 --> 24:58.920]  I bet they have fine...
[24:58.920 --> 25:01.160]  You seem to know what you're talking about here, we'll pursue it.
[25:01.360 --> 25:03.840]  I bet they have fine print that prohibits that.
[25:03.840 --> 25:04.600]  They're not responsible?
[25:04.720 --> 25:05.700]  We're not responsible for anything.
[25:05.740 --> 25:06.460]  So they ignore the letter.
[25:06.960 --> 25:07.940]  That'll make you feel better.
[25:08.140 --> 25:08.760]  No, it won't.
[25:08.880 --> 25:12.640]  It'll make me feel angry, because they're going to ignore me, and I'm just going to get even angrier.
[25:13.440 --> 25:14.620]  I'm pretty angry as it is.
[25:14.720 --> 25:16.020]  You can send some more letters after that.
[25:16.020 --> 25:20.480]  As the head of tech support for local ISP, I can both sympathize and empathize with you.
[25:20.620 --> 25:32.500]  My days would be so much more pleasant if, on the one hand, I wasn't listening to their bad hold music for hours on end, fully knowing that my time is being wasted, or on the other, if I wasn't getting my ass removed by an irate customer because Verizon wouldn't,
[25:32.720 --> 25:36.480]  couldn't, or didn't fix their service in a timely fashion, if at all.
[25:39.100 --> 25:40.340]  Hold music isn't that bad.
[25:41.240 --> 25:42.000]  I don't know.
[25:42.220 --> 25:42.720]  I don't know.
[25:45.100 --> 25:54.900]  I once called a customer service so-called number somewhere, and they told me how important my call was to them, and then hung up on me, because they were too busy.
[25:55.020 --> 25:56.620]  They couldn't even bother to put me on hold.
[25:57.100 --> 25:57.640]  Here's another letter.
[25:57.720 --> 25:58.080]  This is interesting.
[25:58.080 --> 25:59.820]  First off, a quick request.
[25:59.820 --> 26:02.860]  If you do decide to publish this letter, please withhold my email address.
[26:03.040 --> 26:05.140]  Oh, we usually give out email addresses on the air, don't we?
[26:05.420 --> 26:05.640]  Darn.
[26:05.920 --> 26:06.680]  Anyway, this comes from...
[26:06.680 --> 26:07.620]  I can't pronounce this.
[26:07.800 --> 26:09.220]  X-A-K-E-P.
[26:10.080 --> 26:10.700]  What kind of...
[26:10.700 --> 26:11.460]  How do you pronounce that?
[26:12.820 --> 26:13.700]  I can't pronounce that.
[26:13.840 --> 26:14.080]  I don't mean...
[26:14.080 --> 26:15.380]  X-A-K-E-P.
[26:15.700 --> 26:18.220]  There aren't even countries in the most remote part of...
[26:18.900 --> 26:19.300]  Zaka?
[26:19.380 --> 26:22.660]  ...of the mountainous region of some crazy place that have names like that.
[26:23.020 --> 26:23.420]  Zaka.
[26:23.480 --> 26:26.780]  This is like Star Wars-type names of planets where, you know...
[26:26.780 --> 26:27.940]  Maybe it's something else backwards.
[26:28.080 --> 26:28.800]  I don't know.
[26:29.180 --> 26:30.580]  At any rate, I work...
[26:31.800 --> 26:34.120]  I think this is where the inspiration for name came from.
[26:34.180 --> 26:37.420]  I work in the IXCQAAG group for AT&T.
[26:38.460 --> 26:39.180]  All right, whatever.
[26:39.420 --> 26:39.580]  Okay.
[26:39.720 --> 26:42.040]  That means that we deal with situations like yours every day.
[26:42.120 --> 26:44.480]  And I can tell you that your downtime was probably deliberate.
[26:44.860 --> 26:50.500]  A bad smart jack card, RJ48C or X, can be tested remotely in a matter of seconds.
[26:50.840 --> 26:51.380]  I know.
[26:51.480 --> 26:52.820]  I loop them up and down every day.
[26:52.960 --> 26:54.200]  If it's bad, they will know.
[26:54.200 --> 27:02.720]  Odds are that your circuit had its X slash Cs deleted in the network between you and the backbone and were not restored until the higher-ups said to fix it.
[27:02.920 --> 27:06.560]  Go ahead and raise hell about this and get the word out this was an attack on the press.
[27:06.740 --> 27:08.400]  There was no excuse for actions like this.
[27:09.000 --> 27:10.900]  On the upside, it means that someone is afraid of you.
[27:11.040 --> 27:12.000]  Well, we've always known that.
[27:12.400 --> 27:15.720]  And, uh, they are willing to risk an obvious public black eye to shut you up.
[27:15.960 --> 27:18.680]  Again, please do not make my information public.
[27:18.820 --> 27:21.860]  Okay, well, obviously this person doesn't want to go on the record any more than that, but...
[27:21.860 --> 27:25.540]  I still don't think they, like, went down and yanked a wire out of a board.
[27:26.000 --> 27:26.580]  I don't know.
[27:26.580 --> 27:27.580]  I have my doubts, too.
[27:27.740 --> 27:31.720]  But, uh, these days, you know, there's a lot of nasty stuff going on.
[27:31.860 --> 27:34.160]  And this kind of thing, you know, I don't know which is worse.
[27:34.160 --> 27:36.880]  This kind of, this kind of incompetence or this kind of maliciousness.
[27:37.340 --> 27:45.300]  Whatever it is, the effect is the same, and it shut us up for five days, and we really should have some kind of, uh, backup system, I guess, so that we can't do this.
[27:46.180 --> 27:47.700]  So, uh, we're open to ideas on that.
[27:47.740 --> 27:48.620]  And you want to work on that.
[27:49.000 --> 27:50.400]  Talk to me after the show about that, too.
[27:50.600 --> 27:50.860]  Yeah.
[27:51.120 --> 27:56.100]  Well, the problem with the backup systems is that usually, you know, when you need them the most, somehow they fail for whatever reason.
[27:56.380 --> 27:59.020]  I've known that, uh, there's so many letters on this.
[27:59.100 --> 28:02.160]  We can't get into all the letters because we just, we just have too many.
[28:02.940 --> 28:07.580]  Um, but another thing which just happened as well, which I found to be fascinating.
[28:08.380 --> 28:11.820]  Do you remember the, um, the Book of World Records, the, uh...
[28:11.820 --> 28:13.140]  Guinness Book of World Records, yes.
[28:13.360 --> 28:14.460]  Well, I have a TV show now.
[28:14.700 --> 28:17.060]  Well, that's lovely, but that's, that's not what I'm, what I'm getting at.
[28:17.200 --> 28:22.320]  The, the, the article they wrote in 1999 on Kevin Mitnick, being the most notorious hacker in the world.
[28:22.440 --> 28:22.620]  Yeah.
[28:22.820 --> 28:23.660]  All that kind of nonsense.
[28:23.880 --> 28:24.620]  Did they retract it?
[28:24.780 --> 28:31.020]  Uh, well, interesting, um, interesting, uh, side note to that story.
[28:31.020 --> 28:35.340]  Um, there, there was so much wrong with it that I won't even get into the story.
[28:35.520 --> 28:36.120]  It was, it was very short.
[28:36.220 --> 28:41.940]  It was only a paragraph, but there was enough for us to, uh, to write several paragraphs of corrections for that one thing that they wrote.
[28:42.520 --> 28:47.720]  Uh, and keep in mind, this was when Kevin was still in prison and, and bad press was a really not a good thing to have happen.
[28:48.000 --> 28:50.940]  Uh, so what we did was we, we put up a parody site.
[28:50.960 --> 28:57.860]  We called it the same thing that they call their sites, guinnessrecords.com, uh, except, uh, ours had one N instead of two Ns.
[28:58.280 --> 29:00.080]  And so lots, and it happened immediately.
[29:00.280 --> 29:05.680]  As soon as, as soon as we put that page up, we were watching the logs within 20 minutes, somebody wandered into the site.
[29:05.940 --> 29:13.500]  And, you know, you'd have to be a real cretin not to know that that was a parody site because it's, it's just obvious.
[29:13.500 --> 29:16.020]  And there's a link also to the real site.
[29:16.420 --> 29:30.200]  Well, here we are almost two years later and we get a, um, uh, another legal threat this time from, from Guinness Book of World Records people saying that, um, uh, that we are not authorized to, to run this site.
[29:30.440 --> 29:31.540]  Uh, actually as...
[29:31.540 --> 29:32.960]  Not authorized by who?
[29:33.520 --> 29:34.940]  Uh, by them, really.
[29:37.040 --> 29:37.520]  What?
[29:38.380 --> 29:39.840]  I'm still not following.
[29:40.080 --> 29:47.640]  Well, basically saying that, uh, that our, our running this site is a violation of their trademark, that we're fooling people.
[29:47.800 --> 29:50.640]  And of course, on this whole WIPO, you know, cyber squatter.
[29:50.640 --> 29:51.340]  Well, that's a different story.
[29:51.640 --> 29:57.720]  WTO world that we live in now, that, uh, they can, they can order us to, uh, to take this site down.
[29:58.480 --> 30:04.200]  And, um, you know, it's, it was one of the nice letters that we got because they offered to pay us for the site.
[30:04.380 --> 30:07.660]  They offered to pay us for, you know, the whole two years that we've had it, in fact.
[30:08.460 --> 30:11.840]  Which, you know, most of them, Verizon wanted, Verizon really sucked from us.
[30:12.000 --> 30:14.760]  They didn't, they didn't ask for, you know, they said, give it to us.
[30:14.860 --> 30:15.640]  We're not going to pay you anything.
[30:15.800 --> 30:16.560]  You must give it to us.
[30:17.000 --> 30:18.480]  Uh, and these guys were, were nice.
[30:18.580 --> 30:19.420]  But here's the thing.
[30:19.660 --> 30:19.820]  Okay.
[30:20.660 --> 30:22.420]  This is a matter of speech.
[30:22.620 --> 30:23.900]  This is a matter of parody.
[30:24.060 --> 30:27.320]  This is a matter of, of something that, uh, we have the right to do.
[30:27.460 --> 30:32.240]  At least, you know, in my eyes, obviously things are changing rapidly and maybe we no longer have that right.
[30:32.360 --> 30:34.720]  But parodies exist all over the place.
[30:35.220 --> 30:37.880]  And lots of times we, we, we put up an article about this today.
[30:38.140 --> 30:41.460]  Uh, there's all kinds of, of, of parody things that go on out there.
[30:41.600 --> 30:44.040]  You know, fake commercials, fake advertisements.
[30:44.380 --> 30:49.080]  And we put up a bunch of examples of this, uh, on our site to, to show this.
[30:49.080 --> 30:59.240]  In fact, there was, um, uh, this past week, there was, uh, an Olympic site, uh, www.o-l-y-m-p-i-s-c.com.
[30:59.400 --> 31:02.360]  That's if you, you know, twisted the last two letters around.
[31:02.360 --> 31:09.120]  Uh, and that, that diverted you someplace else where you were, you were entered into a poll on, you know, should we destroy the internet?
[31:09.240 --> 31:09.660]  Yes or no?
[31:09.760 --> 31:10.820]  Or something crazy like that.
[31:11.120 --> 31:12.660]  Just, you know, a poll, an opinion poll.
[31:13.380 --> 31:15.620]  And, um, obviously the Olympics...
[31:15.620 --> 31:17.080]  Well, I think yours goes further to parody than that.
[31:17.220 --> 31:25.940]  Well, I'm, yeah, basically this is something that, that is always, has always been permitted, has always been, uh, you know, a valid form of expression.
[31:26.580 --> 31:30.660]  Uh, so what we did was we, uh, you know, we, we made it even more obvious.
[31:31.040 --> 31:40.160]  Not that I think we had to do this, but just, you know, as a show of good faith, we made it painfully obvious that when you go to guinnessrecords.com with one N, it's a parody site.
[31:40.340 --> 31:42.020]  If you want to go to the real site, this is how you do it.
[31:42.100 --> 31:44.760]  But listen, this is what we are saying.
[31:44.900 --> 31:45.760]  This is our speech.
[31:45.960 --> 31:47.120]  And we're saying it for a reason.
[31:47.180 --> 31:52.540]  We also made an offer that if these guys want to publicly retract the story, we'll, we'll give it to them as a gift.
[31:55.980 --> 32:01.820]  So we'll see what they do, but, um, you know, I'm just sick of all these, all these threats all the time.
[32:01.960 --> 32:05.640]  Whenever you, I mean, even, even Ralph Nader, it's getting the same thing with it.
[32:05.640 --> 32:11.720]  You hear that, this MasterCard ad, it's, it's like the ad we run, it's not an ad, the promo we run on our station here.
[32:12.020 --> 32:27.060]  Uh, I don't know if you hear occasionally Robert Knight doing a whole thing about how, um, how NBC, um, viewers, I don't know, are, are, are worth like a whole bunch of millions of dollars or something like that, but BAI listeners are priceless.
[32:27.500 --> 32:28.060]  Oh no.
[32:28.280 --> 32:28.400]  Yeah.
[32:28.700 --> 32:29.360]  Well, they are.
[32:30.220 --> 32:31.180]  Well, yeah, they are.
[32:31.420 --> 32:31.760]  They absolutely are.
[32:31.860 --> 32:33.700]  But it was a, you know, it's a, it's a mock thing.
[32:33.800 --> 32:37.220]  It's, it, it, it takes something that everybody has heard and uses it in a different way.
[32:37.340 --> 32:42.540]  Well, Ralph Nader did the same thing, uh, saying, you know, an audience with Ralph Nader is priceless, something like that.
[32:43.100 --> 32:49.640]  MasterCard is suing him for this, saying that, uh, that, uh, he's, um, he's using their name.
[32:50.240 --> 32:51.300]  I mean, let me, let me read the story here.
[32:51.300 --> 32:59.800]  Ralph Nader labeled MasterCard's lawsuit against the Nader 2000 campaign as an absurd and clumsy abuse of corporate power in an attempt to suppress political speech.
[33:00.260 --> 33:02.060]  MasterCard filed its suit in U.S.
[33:02.380 --> 33:03.960]  District Court for the Southern District of New York.
[33:04.040 --> 33:14.300]  That's, that's our district, uh, charging that a Nader spot entitled Priceless Truth infringed upon the corporation's trademark and copyright of its credit card advertising campaign.
[33:14.960 --> 33:17.960]  Nader said, our advertisement is a parody and fair political speech.
[33:17.960 --> 33:20.900]  It does not infringe on the MasterCard trademark or copyright.
[33:21.360 --> 33:34.980]  Uh, MasterCard is taking itself a little too seriously and in typical corporate style is trying not only to dominate the credit card industry through dual governance inside the marketplace, but the arena of free speech and the free flow of creative ideas in the political arena.
[33:35.100 --> 33:35.840]  They should lighten up.
[33:35.980 --> 33:38.120]  They're taking their name master too seriously.
[33:38.420 --> 33:39.420]  This is America.
[33:40.380 --> 33:52.620]  Nader said the most outlandish charge was the lawsuit's claim that the campaign advertisement's purpose was, and this is great, to deceive, mislead, and confuse consumers and the purchasing public into believing that Ralph Nader, and specifically his candidacy,
[33:52.760 --> 33:54.920]  is in some way connected with MasterCard.
[33:55.200 --> 33:55.680]  What?
[33:55.820 --> 34:03.140]  Let me assure MasterCard's executives that the last thing I want consumers to believe is that my campaign is in the business of selling credit cards, Nader said.
[34:03.140 --> 34:11.600]  Indeed, on June 30th, I issued a call for the enactment of a credit card bill of rights to protect consumers from the excesses of the credit card industry.
[34:11.980 --> 34:22.480]  It would be hard for anyone to take seriously MasterCard's allegations that some people might be confused that the company is endorsing this campaign, especially when the spot says paid for by the Nader 2000 Primary Committee Incorporated.
[34:22.960 --> 34:29.020]  Moreover, anybody with access to the internet could learn that MasterCard recently made soft money donations to the National Republican Congressional Campaign Committees.
[34:30.840 --> 34:45.720]  The comedic highlight, Nader continued, of MasterCard's complaint is paragraph 25, wherein plaintiff asserts that the purpose of this television spot was to connect in some way with MasterCard to enable me to take advantage of the famous reputation and goodwill enjoyed by MasterCard.
[34:45.900 --> 34:48.160]  This claim is worthy of Saturday Night Live.
[34:48.520 --> 34:59.520]  I believe credit card charges are an outrageous fleecing of consumers, leading to invasions of consumer privacy, and are used by too many merchants who threaten damage to credit ratings to stifle legitimate consumer complaints.
[34:59.740 --> 35:01.220]  He's going to be on Saturday Night Live.
[35:01.400 --> 35:01.780]  He is?
[35:01.900 --> 35:02.380]  This Saturday.
[35:02.520 --> 35:02.880]  You're kidding.
[35:03.140 --> 35:03.300]  No.
[35:03.420 --> 35:04.500]  Wow, I know he was on before.
[35:04.860 --> 35:05.220]  Yeah.
[35:05.220 --> 35:12.280]  Because they showed that video after the Nader rally, and he was on there in the 70s or something.
[35:12.540 --> 35:13.480]  He's going to be on again.
[35:13.680 --> 35:13.980]  Wow.
[35:14.420 --> 35:15.820]  He's really making a lot of appearances.
[35:17.280 --> 35:18.200]  But that was fun.
[35:18.240 --> 35:18.540]  What did you think?
[35:18.540 --> 35:20.560]  You were up there at the Nader rally.
[35:21.120 --> 35:24.920]  I'll tell you, political rallies kind of scare me, though, because there's so much cheering going on.
[35:24.920 --> 35:27.620]  I always am scared when people are cheering that much.
[35:28.300 --> 35:36.720]  I mean, it was nice, you know, they were saying cool things, but still, it's just, you know, it was, it was, anytime I'm in a stadium with people cheering, I get scared.
[35:37.460 --> 35:38.200]  Baseball games, too.
[35:39.020 --> 35:40.040]  Baseball games scare you?
[35:40.200 --> 35:40.660]  Yeah, they do.
[35:40.740 --> 35:40.940]  Absolutely.
[35:42.280 --> 35:44.920]  Well, if you've seen the way the Yankees are playing lately, you'd be scared.
[35:44.920 --> 35:45.920]  Well, hey, you know.
[35:46.560 --> 35:49.220]  But what did you think of the whole campaign thing?
[35:49.400 --> 35:50.140]  I thought it was good.
[35:50.140 --> 35:56.820]  I mean, there were 12,000 people in a room, all listening to, to intelligent things.
[35:57.060 --> 35:57.180]  Yeah.
[35:57.220 --> 35:58.400]  And you don't find that all that often.
[35:58.400 --> 35:59.140]  We snuck up in the front.
[35:59.400 --> 36:00.300]  We managed to get in the front.
[36:00.540 --> 36:01.200]  I always do this.
[36:02.200 --> 36:02.900]  It's pretty cool.
[36:03.140 --> 36:04.020]  Anyway, let's take some phone calls.
[36:04.080 --> 36:06.240]  212-209-2900.
[36:06.400 --> 36:12.420]  If you have comments on, on the political debates, in quotes, in italics, and underline, and all that kind of thing.
[36:13.040 --> 36:21.460]  If you have anything to say about Verizon, if you have anything to say about the latest legal threats against us, and is there anything else we forgot to update people on?
[36:21.540 --> 36:22.560]  There's always so many things going on.
[36:22.620 --> 36:25.240]  I leave here every week realizing that I forgot something major.
[36:25.400 --> 36:26.000]  You just need to know.
[36:26.400 --> 36:26.720]  Huh?
[36:28.040 --> 36:29.880]  Well, it's actually pronounced Reindahl.
[36:30.700 --> 36:31.600]  Heard about this?
[36:31.840 --> 36:32.300]  Tell me.
[36:32.640 --> 36:43.920]  Ah, yesterday, NIST, the National Institute of Standards and Technology, declared its final AES candidate, the Advanced Encryption Standard, which is supposed to replace DES, D-E-S.
[36:44.680 --> 36:49.400]  And the winner is Reindahl, spelled R-I-J-N-D-A-E-L.
[36:50.160 --> 36:53.460]  It's fairly obvious this was not, you know, made in this country.
[36:54.220 --> 36:59.180]  A couple of Belgian folks, very talented individuals, came up with this algorithm.
[37:00.300 --> 37:03.180]  I was kind of rooting for two fish, but Reindahl was the winner.
[37:03.820 --> 37:12.180]  And it's now being put to Secretary of Commerce, and they're going to try and get it in as the new standard for encryption in the U.S.
[37:12.440 --> 37:12.440]  government.
[37:13.380 --> 37:14.580]  Is this a good thing or a bad thing?
[37:14.720 --> 37:15.500]  This is a good thing.
[37:15.720 --> 37:17.180]  Okay, well, I'm not used to very many of those.
[37:17.180 --> 37:19.460]  A couple years of peer review have come down to this.
[37:20.000 --> 37:22.860]  Actually, I heard something else yesterday about the Connectix case.
[37:23.500 --> 37:24.020]  Connectix case?
[37:24.040 --> 37:26.500]  Yeah, the, what was it, Supreme Court is...
[37:26.500 --> 37:27.800]  Oh, the soft PlayStation?
[37:28.440 --> 37:28.780]  Yeah.
[37:29.300 --> 37:31.020]  It's a case that's very similar to ours.
[37:31.340 --> 37:32.100]  With the whole...
[37:32.100 --> 37:33.000]  Is this a story on it?
[37:33.420 --> 37:33.760]  No.
[37:33.840 --> 37:35.400]  Wow, so you distract me of the story on something else.
[37:35.400 --> 37:35.660]  Mm-hmm.
[37:36.300 --> 37:38.760]  This is a case that has something...
[37:38.760 --> 37:43.040]  It's very similar to the 2600 case as far as reverse engineering goes.
[37:43.280 --> 37:44.440]  The whole Sony, Connectix thing.
[37:44.760 --> 37:46.500]  What was it, Supreme Court said they're not going to hear it?
[37:46.620 --> 37:46.980]  Is that it?
[37:47.140 --> 37:53.200]  So that's a good thing, meaning that since they won the last round, it won't be appealed in the Supreme Court.
[37:53.620 --> 37:54.100]  Not bad.
[37:54.340 --> 37:58.280]  Yeah, but I haven't heard much press on that, so if anybody knows more about that, please call in and tell us.
[37:58.360 --> 38:05.620]  Well, if you're interested in Reindahl, you want to go to www.nist.gov slash A-E-S.
[38:06.860 --> 38:07.260]  Okay.
[38:07.700 --> 38:08.280]  That's good stuff.
[38:08.420 --> 38:10.100]  With those words, we go to the phones.
[38:10.160 --> 38:14.220]  Now, I should tell everybody out there the rebel ban is still in effect, right?
[38:14.800 --> 38:16.220]  Were we able to...
[38:16.220 --> 38:17.180]  That was, yeah.
[38:17.380 --> 38:17.800]  That was him?
[38:17.860 --> 38:19.280]  Mike said that was him as well.
[38:19.420 --> 38:19.660]  Okay.
[38:21.640 --> 38:22.880]  Pull out the old book here.
[38:23.180 --> 38:23.380]  Yeah.
[38:23.600 --> 38:25.380]  We were at...
[38:26.100 --> 38:26.900]  19 January.
[38:27.800 --> 38:28.940]  We were at 19 January.
[38:28.940 --> 38:29.260]  We were at...
[38:29.260 --> 38:32.640]  So now we have to add an additional month to that, so we're all the way into February now.
[38:32.920 --> 38:33.200]  Yeah.
[38:33.200 --> 38:34.520]  I'm sorry, 16 January.
[38:34.880 --> 38:35.260]  Oh, okay.
[38:35.460 --> 38:41.180]  And another four weeks is, let's see, 23, 30, 6, 13.
[38:42.260 --> 38:43.020]  13th of February.
[38:43.520 --> 38:44.580]  Okay, 13th of February.
[38:45.000 --> 38:45.300]  Would be...
[38:45.300 --> 38:47.160]  Well, I'm sorry, the 20th of February.
[38:47.280 --> 38:47.480]  All right.
[38:47.540 --> 38:48.280]  Would be when you can...
[38:48.280 --> 38:51.020]  If you want to hear the voice of Rebel, you must come to the 2600 meeting on Friday.
[38:51.160 --> 38:52.140]  That's the only way you can hear it.
[38:52.540 --> 38:53.300]  Not here, though.
[38:54.320 --> 38:54.660]  And...
[38:54.660 --> 38:55.440]  That's not right.
[38:56.660 --> 38:59.420]  Well, it's right that we spared the listeners.
[38:59.600 --> 39:00.580]  It's nonsense for any longer.
[39:00.760 --> 39:01.320]  All right, let's go over here.
[39:01.380 --> 39:01.700]  Good evening.
[39:01.700 --> 39:02.880]  You're on the air.
[39:04.040 --> 39:05.200]  Good evening, brothers.
[39:05.340 --> 39:05.820]  How are you?
[39:05.960 --> 39:06.200]  Okay.
[39:06.560 --> 39:15.440]  Yeah, it's always a pleasure to hear your show, because whether you know it by design or otherwise, you always bring up some great social policy issues.
[39:15.440 --> 39:17.160]  We stumble into them occasionally.
[39:17.500 --> 39:29.860]  Yeah, most particularly the economic issues and what bigness and largeness and greatness really does in terms of being oppressive and abusive to consumers.
[39:30.700 --> 39:40.940]  And in this regard, although it is not my intention to vote for Ralph Nader, because I think it's a little disingenuous to jump in in the 11th hour.
[39:41.160 --> 39:51.760]  No one can gainsay that his contribution to individual families that have had to suffer under severe consumer abuses.
[39:51.760 --> 40:10.320]  And I have a 20-year history in consumer protection legislation from the credit cards, the landlord, tenants, security deposits, to bait-and-switch advertising, et cetera, to the Pinto, et cetera, which takes a little bit back further than 25 years.
[40:10.320 --> 40:22.560]  But nevertheless, with General Motors and some of the big concerns that he has taken on, and he is, in my opinion, the people's presidential candidate at this juncture.
[40:22.560 --> 40:28.640]  It's just that if you're going to undertake this, do it with some seriousness, with a great lead time that you need.
[40:28.780 --> 40:49.220]  But Ralph Nader has made an exceptional contribution to society, which is exactly the standard by which these contrived debate commissions ought to ascertain, once they get independent of political interest, that a person would be deserving to participate in a national debate.
[40:49.320 --> 41:12.600]  So I love that you keep up the technical aspect, but I also love that you do the great service of bringing these issues of monopoly, that you take the flack, and that it's making an awareness about just the sinister nature, the bullish nature, the bloodthirsty nature of large economic concerns,
[41:12.800 --> 41:28.500]  and most particularly with the advent of the WTO, which, if you incidentally may have seen a buried article in the bottom of the second New York Times, where the WTO, you see, has threatened $5 billion in sanctions against the United States of America,
[41:28.500 --> 41:36.480]  if it does not change its tax laws, so that subsidies cannot be given to its companies.
[41:36.680 --> 41:39.940]  And this is exactly what the Americans don't really understand.
[41:39.940 --> 42:05.900]  These people deal so stealthily that they don't understand that here's a group of basically right-wingers with a lot of money who have winnowed their way into the American tax policy to say to our Congress that you have to change your tax laws or else without our having an even breath of the fact that the issue is even pending.
[42:06.100 --> 42:07.500]  So keep doing these things.
[42:07.640 --> 42:08.660]  Keep fighting, brothers.
[42:08.880 --> 42:15.980]  I believe that you're on the precipice of building a consciousness that's really going to make a difference with the younger generation.
[42:15.980 --> 42:17.140]  I'm an old war horse.
[42:17.240 --> 42:18.200]  I fought this.
[42:18.400 --> 42:25.760]  The baton got dropped because they put the fascists between the Kennedy era and whenever the next connect is.
[42:25.880 --> 42:28.320]  That happens for African-Americans, Asian-Americans.
[42:28.480 --> 42:29.720]  But they assassinated them all.
[42:29.800 --> 42:30.340]  They're killers.
[42:31.080 --> 42:31.980]  They're murderers.
[42:32.100 --> 42:35.480]  So don't think that they won't attack you, destroy your reputation.
[42:35.480 --> 42:37.820]  They are murderers throughout the world.
[42:38.000 --> 42:39.260]  That is their history.
[42:39.420 --> 42:40.940]  That's not a conspiracy theory.
[42:40.940 --> 42:43.140]  So keep it up because that's what they've done.
[42:43.420 --> 42:46.240]  There was no African-American who killed Kennedy, you see.
[42:46.480 --> 42:48.660]  There was no African-American that killed King.
[42:49.060 --> 42:52.120]  There was no African-American that killed Salvador Allende.
[42:52.640 --> 43:12.900]  And for this country not to live up to its murderous contemporary history now means that the very people who enjoy these benefits, enjoy the benefits of their hard-working ancestors, are now about to be deposed of the very freedoms and liberty for which their ancestors,
[43:13.180 --> 43:15.680]  all of our ancestors, have died.
[43:15.680 --> 43:19.260]  So keep these issues in front of the public and keep rapping.
[43:19.720 --> 43:20.100]  Okay.
[43:20.380 --> 43:21.560]  Thanks very much for the call.
[43:21.780 --> 43:22.200]  Thank you.
[43:22.380 --> 43:31.620]  I think a lot of people, though, when we say people don't understand these things, a lot of times it's because people aren't exposed to the ideas.
[43:31.620 --> 43:38.460]  You know, you say people don't realize about what the WTO is doing with, you know, $5 billion threats if we don't change our tax code.
[43:39.060 --> 43:40.440]  Well, who's going to tell you that?
[43:40.600 --> 43:43.380]  You know, the same companies that are pushing it because they own the media?
[43:43.540 --> 43:44.180]  No, of course not.
[43:44.180 --> 43:46.640]  You have to go to independent sources and you have to listen.
[43:47.740 --> 43:49.340]  Are you finished groaning into the microphone, Isaac?
[43:49.600 --> 43:50.720]  Well, that's five minutes of my life.
[43:50.820 --> 43:51.820]  I'm never going to get back now.
[43:52.280 --> 43:54.440]  Well, you just keep making me feel better then.
[43:55.960 --> 43:56.520]  Good evening.
[43:56.660 --> 43:57.080]  You're on the air.
[43:58.020 --> 44:05.620]  Yeah, gentlemen, that man I just called, just as a side note, he calls quite a few shows, and every time he does, he always stops.
[44:05.900 --> 44:09.660]  I always start to think a little differently about life after I hear him speak.
[44:09.960 --> 44:10.180]  Uh-huh.
[44:10.300 --> 44:11.360]  In what way?
[44:11.700 --> 44:14.000]  Isaac's thinking about ending his life after...
[44:14.000 --> 44:14.800]  No, I'm not.
[44:15.440 --> 44:21.100]  Well, he's obviously, for lack of a better word, a learned man who's got quite a few years of experience.
[44:21.840 --> 44:22.640]  How can I say it?
[44:22.640 --> 44:24.260]  He gives me an insight on different issues.
[44:24.260 --> 44:28.200]  And even though he talks about different things, he still comes down...
[44:28.200 --> 44:28.880]  How can I...
[44:28.880 --> 44:31.300]  But different perspectives scare people, you know?
[44:31.300 --> 44:33.920]  That's why we have to be shielded from different perspectives all the time.
[44:34.120 --> 44:34.580]  That's true.
[44:34.580 --> 44:38.140]  Well, I only listen to BAI so much before I go back to the regular network.
[44:38.260 --> 44:39.000]  Yeah, hurry up.
[44:39.040 --> 44:42.940]  Go back to the commercial networks, because, you know, who knows what's going to happen to your brain if you stick around here too long.
[44:43.000 --> 45:01.080]  But what I wanted to say, a very short comment, on the other non-commercial station, A20 WNYC, sometime in late spring, in wake of one of those viruses that crashed the Yahoo site or just the I Love You, they did a piece on hackers.
[45:01.380 --> 45:04.880]  And it was going pretty much the way most pieces go.
[45:04.980 --> 45:06.300]  So it was kind of in the background for me.
[45:06.300 --> 45:16.340]  But all of a sudden, in the middle of the piece, they jumped to a guy, they were about to interview a hacker, and they started playing the music that you hear at the beginning of your show.
[45:16.520 --> 45:16.940]  Oh, really?
[45:17.420 --> 45:19.000]  Yeah, and as soon as it jumped, I go, what the hell?
[45:19.320 --> 45:20.300]  I go, that sounds...
[45:20.300 --> 45:23.040]  And then, I forget the guy's name, but I don't think...
[45:23.040 --> 45:29.440]  If you guys are hearing about it for the first time, obviously nobody on the show is interviewed, but I was just shocked why they would pick that particular music.
[45:29.780 --> 45:30.860]  You mean our theme?
[45:31.060 --> 45:32.100]  Yeah, dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun.
[45:32.220 --> 45:33.360]  You know, right at the beginning of the show.
[45:33.360 --> 45:36.040]  Well, that's an off-the-hook town, so that's really not our theme.
[45:36.800 --> 45:38.720]  But the two together would be our theme.
[45:38.920 --> 45:39.620]  But, you know, that's all.
[45:39.660 --> 45:40.320]  We don't mind.
[45:40.600 --> 45:42.920]  I guess it's fair use, if you want to call it that.
[45:43.060 --> 45:45.000]  But I figure you guys are the only one who ever had that piece.
[45:45.060 --> 45:48.940]  I don't know who else would have access to it, unless they pulled it off your air.
[45:49.860 --> 45:50.300]  That's awesome.
[45:50.460 --> 45:53.260]  If they used the exact same recording, yeah, they would have had to.
[45:53.340 --> 45:53.880]  But that's okay.
[45:53.960 --> 46:01.500]  If people want to spread the word in whatever way they can, as long as they don't say bad things that aren't true and credit them to us somehow.
[46:01.640 --> 46:03.020]  Oh, they said nothing about your show.
[46:03.100 --> 46:05.840]  It was just the music was the same, which I found very coincidental.
[46:06.460 --> 46:07.700]  If a coincidence at all.
[46:08.000 --> 46:08.100]  Yeah.
[46:08.380 --> 46:12.780]  Well, you know, it just gets annoying when someone comes up to you and says, you're using their theme.
[46:12.880 --> 46:14.240]  You know, when it's our theme.
[46:14.320 --> 46:17.460]  When someone comes up to me and says, Emmanuel Goldstein, you named yourself after that kid in the film.
[46:18.060 --> 46:19.000]  You know, that...
[46:19.000 --> 46:21.060]  It can be kind of funny at the same time.
[46:21.260 --> 46:21.420]  Yes.
[46:21.920 --> 46:23.740]  That name for you sounded familiar for years.
[46:23.860 --> 46:28.160]  And I was, you know, I read 1984 and I saw the movie and that name jumped out at me again.
[46:28.360 --> 46:28.560]  Uh-huh.
[46:29.080 --> 46:30.580]  You obviously have a real name.
[46:30.680 --> 46:32.440]  Is it common knowledge or is it a secret?
[46:32.660 --> 46:35.080]  No, it's not common knowledge, but it's a name...
[46:35.080 --> 46:37.920]  It's a name that is a lot more sounding like a name.
[46:39.380 --> 46:40.400]  But it's out there.
[46:40.520 --> 46:42.120]  No, you can definitely find out.
[46:42.120 --> 46:43.840]  Well, this name sounds less like a name.
[46:44.060 --> 46:45.040]  Well, no, common knowledge.
[46:45.140 --> 46:46.200]  He asked if my name was common knowledge.
[46:46.200 --> 46:46.580]  Oh, oh, oh, common knowledge.
[46:46.580 --> 46:47.380]  That's like a handle.
[46:47.660 --> 46:48.000]  Oh, I see.
[46:48.620 --> 46:49.720]  Actually, it would be a bad handle.
[46:49.720 --> 46:50.800]  Hopefully that can be helpful to you, sir.
[46:51.220 --> 46:51.500]  Okay.
[46:51.700 --> 46:51.960]  All right.
[46:52.000 --> 46:52.480]  Thanks for calling.
[46:52.800 --> 46:53.980]  That would not be a bad handle.
[46:54.180 --> 46:57.360]  Well, you better hurry and get it because I guarantee somebody's registering it right now with the...
[46:57.360 --> 46:57.920]  Common knowledge.
[46:58.040 --> 46:58.480]  That's not bad.
[46:58.560 --> 46:59.420]  With the organization...
[46:59.420 --> 47:00.660]  The International Handle Authority.
[47:00.920 --> 47:00.940]  Yeah.
[47:02.060 --> 47:02.420]  All right.
[47:02.480 --> 47:02.780]  Good evening.
[47:02.900 --> 47:03.360]  You're on the air.
[47:05.380 --> 47:05.980]  Oh, yes.
[47:06.240 --> 47:08.960]  And New Jersey does have an advertisement in the name.
[47:09.240 --> 47:09.740]  All right.
[47:09.860 --> 47:10.240]  This is just...
[47:10.240 --> 47:11.780]  I'm going to have to push this to March, aren't I?
[47:11.920 --> 47:12.080]  All right.
[47:12.140 --> 47:12.640]  Wait a second.
[47:12.800 --> 47:12.940]  Rebel.
[47:13.100 --> 47:13.260]  All right.
[47:13.340 --> 47:13.920]  Look, it's okay.
[47:14.100 --> 47:14.720]  The ban's off.
[47:14.840 --> 47:14.960]  All right.
[47:14.980 --> 47:15.420]  You can talk.
[47:15.500 --> 47:16.240]  Talk in your normal voice.
[47:16.500 --> 47:17.340]  New Jersey, go ahead.
[47:17.340 --> 47:17.660]  All right.
[47:17.720 --> 47:18.400]  Add another month.
[47:18.660 --> 47:19.020]  Well, hey.
[47:19.080 --> 47:19.720]  That makes it...
[47:19.720 --> 47:21.200]  No, I'm allowed to do that.
[47:21.360 --> 47:21.900]  Look it up.
[47:21.940 --> 47:22.740]  I'm allowed to do that.
[47:22.800 --> 47:23.580]  But you tricked him.
[47:23.580 --> 47:24.180]  I tricked him.
[47:24.220 --> 47:25.300]  He's not supposed to be calling up.
[47:25.380 --> 47:26.780]  I got him to admit it was him.
[47:26.780 --> 47:28.040]  You just said the ban was off.
[47:28.200 --> 47:29.480]  I said the ban was off, and it was.
[47:29.560 --> 47:30.480]  For that moment, it was off.
[47:30.540 --> 47:31.280]  Now it's back on again.
[47:31.720 --> 47:32.080]  It's what?
[47:32.100 --> 47:32.780]  A five-month ban?
[47:32.780 --> 47:33.380]  A six-month ban?
[47:33.440 --> 47:33.780]  What is it?
[47:34.320 --> 47:35.380]  Five now, I guess.
[47:35.600 --> 47:36.120]  That's a five-month ban.
[47:36.260 --> 47:36.520]  March.
[47:37.100 --> 47:38.020]  Only in March.
[47:40.460 --> 47:43.860]  I get the feeling that our authority is just not being taken seriously around here.
[47:44.140 --> 47:44.740]  Good evening.
[47:44.780 --> 47:45.280]  You're on the air.
[47:47.060 --> 47:47.460]  Hi.
[47:48.280 --> 47:53.440]  Just as an aside, the person that sent the international email, X-A...
[47:54.600 --> 47:58.060]  Was it X-A-K-E-P?
[47:58.540 --> 47:59.120]  Uh-huh.
[47:59.120 --> 48:00.820]  That is written...
[48:00.820 --> 48:03.760]  If it was written down in Cyrillic, it's X-A-K-E-R.
[48:04.400 --> 48:05.040]  Oh, really?
[48:05.240 --> 48:05.480]  Yeah.
[48:06.580 --> 48:07.980]  That's incredible that you would know that.
[48:08.600 --> 48:09.340]  Just a thought.
[48:09.700 --> 48:10.300]  Just a thought.
[48:10.460 --> 48:11.840]  But is it a thought or is it a fact?
[48:11.900 --> 48:12.340]  Oh, it's true.
[48:12.480 --> 48:13.640]  I mean, that is it in Cyrillic.
[48:13.780 --> 48:16.700]  You know, as you were spelling it, I was thinking, X-A-K-E-R, you know.
[48:16.920 --> 48:20.680]  See, that just goes to show BAI listeners will be able to, you know, uncover any facts.
[48:20.700 --> 48:22.360]  Yeah, that's pretty impressive.
[48:22.600 --> 48:25.980]  That's what we mean when we say they're priceless, and MasterCard can go screw themselves.
[48:26.320 --> 48:26.900]  Oh, thank you.
[48:27.340 --> 48:31.800]  I was asking also, I just wanted to ask whether or not you were appealing that decision.
[48:31.900 --> 48:32.740]  What's happening with that?
[48:32.740 --> 48:33.140]  Ah, yes.
[48:33.240 --> 48:34.300]  The appeal is going forward.
[48:34.400 --> 48:39.840]  In fact, we had a very impassioned discussion about it today, you know, as far as just how we're going to be moving forward.
[48:40.020 --> 48:41.700]  And believe me, we're moving forward.
[48:41.860 --> 48:42.400]  We really are.
[48:42.440 --> 48:42.700]  Is that all we have?
[48:43.260 --> 48:58.320]  Not, no, not yet, but it will be, as soon as we know something, you know, you'll, after talking to all the people at Harvard, you know, after being there and talking to Jack Valente, so many people came up saying, you know, you've got to go through with this.
[48:58.420 --> 48:58.880]  You've got to appeal.
[48:58.980 --> 49:03.300]  A lot of people are watching this, and, you know, that's going to be overturned at some point.
[49:03.300 --> 49:07.880]  And it's really heartening to see so many people that are following this, that are into this.
[49:07.960 --> 49:12.160]  And I just, I'm always surprised by how many people know about it, and how it keeps popping up.
[49:12.200 --> 49:14.800]  You know, in this month's Harper's Magazine, do you guys see this?
[49:15.140 --> 49:18.740]  They reprinted some of the Jack Valente testimony.
[49:19.100 --> 49:19.840]  Oh, wow.
[49:20.060 --> 49:20.260]  Yeah.
[49:21.320 --> 49:22.280]  Yeah, most of that.
[49:22.580 --> 49:23.140]  That's great.
[49:23.160 --> 49:26.020]  It's the October edition of Harper's.
[49:26.360 --> 49:29.080]  And, in fact, it's on the, is that on the front page?
[49:29.320 --> 49:29.780]  Very good.
[49:30.580 --> 49:32.740]  Also, the two, what happened to your line?
[49:32.740 --> 49:34.600]  And I totally believe that it was intentional.
[49:35.780 --> 49:36.500]  Yeah, well, you know...
[49:36.500 --> 49:39.960]  Everything they do, every phone call that they add to your bill is intentional.
[49:40.200 --> 49:43.580]  At this point, it's kind of late to even think about, you know, why it happened.
[49:43.840 --> 49:45.860]  Now, the question I want to ask is, what do we do now?
[49:45.960 --> 49:47.440]  Yes, that's what I was getting to.
[49:47.920 --> 49:50.800]  I guess you pay monthly or yearly or something.
[49:50.960 --> 49:51.740]  Just subtract it.
[49:51.840 --> 49:52.280]  Don't bill them.
[49:52.360 --> 49:55.200]  Yeah, but you see, no, we pay the provider, and the provider is great.
[49:55.200 --> 49:56.360]  We have no complaints with them.
[49:56.460 --> 49:57.420]  They're amazing people.
[49:57.580 --> 50:01.440]  But, you know, they're the ones that would be hurt if we did something like that.
[50:01.440 --> 50:03.980]  Actually, we'd probably be hurt because they'd probably pull the T1 if we did that.
[50:04.040 --> 50:04.440]  In Verizon.
[50:04.720 --> 50:06.020]  Another bill that's a Verizon bill?
[50:06.840 --> 50:07.800]  We just have to...
[50:07.800 --> 50:12.920]  You know, I think what we're doing now is probably the best thing, letting people know about it and giving people a way to vent.
[50:13.080 --> 50:14.940]  And maybe that will lead to some changes.
[50:15.160 --> 50:16.660]  We'll wait for a response from Verizon.
[50:16.760 --> 50:19.220]  Hopefully, it won't be a legal threat because we're criticizing them.
[50:19.220 --> 50:25.800]  Anyway, as far as the Harper's thing goes, that is on page...
[50:25.800 --> 50:27.280]  Well, it starts on page 15.
[50:27.440 --> 50:30.120]  It's called Jack Valente on DVD Piracy.
[50:30.900 --> 50:32.940]  And I just...
[50:32.940 --> 50:40.000]  This magazine's great because they always reprint things that are particularly interesting that a lot of people might have missed.
[50:41.260 --> 50:43.300]  And let me find the actual...
[50:43.300 --> 50:43.780]  Oh, yes.
[50:43.900 --> 50:45.660]  Digital Millennium Thought Crimes.
[50:45.680 --> 50:47.060]  It's on page 28.
[50:47.860 --> 50:50.440]  It's from the deposition of Jack Valente, blah, blah, blah.
[50:51.000 --> 50:53.120]  And basically, it just goes on for several pages.
[50:53.620 --> 50:56.260]  Mr. Valente, who are the members of the DVD Copy Control Association?
[50:56.320 --> 50:57.120]  I don't know.
[50:57.440 --> 50:59.460]  Have you ever met anybody at the DVD CCA?
[50:59.560 --> 51:00.240]  Not that I'm aware of.
[51:00.280 --> 51:01.460]  I'll just read Valente's answers.
[51:01.740 --> 51:02.640]  Not that I'm aware of.
[51:02.740 --> 51:03.040]  No.
[51:03.560 --> 51:03.960]  No.
[51:04.180 --> 51:05.080]  I'm not sure.
[51:05.340 --> 51:06.200]  I'm just not sure.
[51:06.500 --> 51:06.900]  No.
[51:07.500 --> 51:07.900]  No.
[51:08.620 --> 51:09.020]  No.
[51:09.700 --> 51:10.000]  No.
[51:10.120 --> 51:11.220]  Not that I'm aware of.
[51:11.340 --> 51:13.020]  I'm not aware of any discussions I've had.
[51:13.840 --> 51:14.780]  That's one of my favorites.
[51:15.420 --> 51:16.100]  Not really.
[51:16.100 --> 51:17.140]  I don't recall.
[51:17.880 --> 51:18.980]  No, I don't.
[51:19.400 --> 51:19.840]  No.
[51:20.460 --> 51:21.600]  I don't recall.
[51:21.800 --> 51:22.520]  I don't recall.
[51:22.680 --> 51:23.680]  I'm not aware.
[51:24.300 --> 51:25.320]  That's a good synonym.
[51:25.760 --> 51:26.400]  I'm not...
[51:26.400 --> 51:28.300]  That's the first statement he actually made the whole thing.
[51:30.420 --> 51:35.300]  Well, actually, the synonym was Marty Garbage saying, when you say you're not aware, does that mean you don't know?
[51:35.920 --> 51:36.880]  That's a good synonym.
[51:37.660 --> 51:39.160]  Continuing with Valente's responses.
[51:39.360 --> 51:40.180]  I'm not aware of any.
[51:40.320 --> 51:40.900]  I don't know.
[51:41.040 --> 51:41.680]  I don't know.
[51:41.960 --> 51:42.800]  Great composer.
[51:42.800 --> 51:43.660]  I love his music.
[51:43.840 --> 51:47.660]  That, of course, was in response to Marty Garbage saying, do you know who Mr. Schumann is?
[51:47.860 --> 51:49.580]  And he wasn't talking about the composer.
[51:49.760 --> 51:51.180]  He was talking about someone else.
[51:52.080 --> 51:53.140]  I do not know him.
[51:53.580 --> 51:55.260]  What kind of pirates?
[51:57.300 --> 51:57.700]  No.
[51:58.360 --> 51:59.960]  It just goes on for a couple more pages.
[52:00.080 --> 52:12.040]  And after that is a discussion between representatives of the Motion Picture Association of America Ratings Board and Paramount Pictures concerning the rating of the movie South Park, bigger, longer, and uncut.
[52:12.080 --> 52:19.140]  We can't read that on the air because they're going to some specific graphic things as to why it was getting an NC-17 rating and what they had to do to fix it.
[52:19.320 --> 52:20.760]  So it's really interesting.
[52:20.920 --> 52:22.560]  And I hope people pick that up.
[52:23.180 --> 52:24.320]  Let's go to another phone call.
[52:25.340 --> 52:34.620]  At the thing in Boston, he was asked about another suit that he testified in or did something, the Motion Picture Association, and he had never heard of the company.
[52:34.800 --> 52:35.180]  He had no idea.
[52:35.260 --> 52:36.720]  Yeah, he didn't know what he had testified in.
[52:36.800 --> 52:37.880]  He said, this is the first time hearing it.
[52:39.360 --> 52:44.620]  Well, you know, I think he said he had to talk to his press agents about just what they're saying that he did.
[52:45.520 --> 52:46.180]  I don't know.
[52:46.700 --> 52:47.600]  It was comical.
[52:47.600 --> 52:49.780]  If it wasn't so sad, it would be funny.
[52:50.080 --> 52:51.840]  And a lot of people are suffering as a result.
[52:52.220 --> 52:52.620]  Good evening.
[52:52.740 --> 52:53.240]  You're on the air.
[52:54.560 --> 52:55.300]  Speak up, please.
[52:56.560 --> 52:57.580]  Sounds like long distance.
[52:57.720 --> 52:58.460]  Yes, where are you calling from?
[52:58.860 --> 53:00.500]  I'm calling from San Francisco, California.
[53:00.560 --> 53:00.840]  That is.
[53:01.000 --> 53:01.540]  I have the other phone here.
[53:01.600 --> 53:02.940]  I was jeopardizing two of your lines.
[53:03.100 --> 53:03.320]  Okay.
[53:03.840 --> 53:12.100]  I'm calling to comment about the letter that you received from the guy in the Inter-Exchange Carrier Customer Support Group about your little dilemma with your T1.
[53:12.340 --> 53:12.620]  Uh-huh.
[53:12.700 --> 53:14.700]  Sounds like you're in a busy room like that.
[53:14.860 --> 53:15.280]  Oh, yeah.
[53:15.340 --> 53:16.720]  I'm actually in a switch room right now.
[53:16.780 --> 53:17.640]  See, I can tell these things.
[53:17.840 --> 53:19.060]  I work for a little phone company.
[53:24.500 --> 53:25.860]  That kind of thing does happen.
[53:26.000 --> 53:28.600]  I'm out here with Pacific Bell, and it happens all the time.
[53:29.580 --> 53:32.540]  What I would do, if I were you, is request...
[53:32.540 --> 53:40.100]  Actually, you can legally demand the log from the trouble ticket and see if any first levels got involved.
[53:40.100 --> 53:52.300]  Because I guarantee you, none of the craft, none of the actual employees that are doing the work care enough about, you know, 2,600 and the whole thing going on to subvert you guys by killing your T1.
[53:52.500 --> 53:52.740]  Right.
[53:52.880 --> 53:53.120]  Exactly.
[53:53.240 --> 53:58.900]  So look from the very beginning and see if there was a first level or second level escalation or if it was initiated by somebody like that.
[53:59.060 --> 54:03.280]  And they actually said, hey, you know, don't send an FMAC out here to work out on that.
[54:03.360 --> 54:05.600]  Don't send an NTECH out to that office to work on this.
[54:05.760 --> 54:08.880]  Would they actually log something like that saying, don't send somebody out?
[54:08.880 --> 54:12.820]  Well, they have to log absolutely everything.
[54:13.060 --> 54:22.300]  So if, you know, I'm Jane, the lady at ICMC, and I'm sitting there typing in the log, I got to type, my boss said, don't do this.
[54:22.620 --> 54:24.700]  They have to log absolutely everything.
[54:24.980 --> 54:32.580]  Now, the part that he put in his little note about your X slash Cs are cross-connects in a DAX, a digital access cross-connect system.
[54:32.680 --> 54:36.260]  So your cross-connects might have been killed, but there are other sneakier ways of doing it.
[54:36.640 --> 54:42.600]  Now, the NIU, the circuit pack that they replaced, if this is a DSL line, like you guys said it was...
[54:42.600 --> 54:43.300]  No, it's a T1.
[54:43.520 --> 54:44.340]  T1, HDSL.
[54:44.440 --> 54:45.880]  And it's a full T1, so it's not HDSL?
[54:45.980 --> 54:47.340]  They replaced a pair gain card.
[54:47.340 --> 54:47.980]  Okay.
[54:48.720 --> 55:04.740]  The, the, uh, a lot of the, um, cities like New York, like San Francisco, that have old established plant, crappy plant, that they can salvage, use HDSL packs, HDSL circuit packs on those.
[55:04.860 --> 55:08.040]  I mean, they're, they're notorious out here for going bad.
[55:08.300 --> 55:11.480]  I mean, they'll work for months at a time and just take a dump on you.
[55:11.520 --> 55:12.280]  They just go flaky.
[55:12.280 --> 55:14.300]  Yeah, they just, they just go completely flaky.
[55:14.480 --> 55:15.600]  So, that could have been it.
[55:15.840 --> 55:17.700]  Five days is totally unacceptable.
[55:18.020 --> 55:21.600]  How about the guy showing up, replacing it, and leaving without testing it?
[55:21.720 --> 55:22.520]  That's totally normal.
[55:22.660 --> 55:23.380]  He didn't replace it.
[55:23.500 --> 55:24.340]  That's totally normal?
[55:24.580 --> 55:26.100]  Well, he claims he changed it.
[55:26.100 --> 55:28.160]  No, the first guy who showed up was only in the basement.
[55:28.460 --> 55:28.880]  I, I...
[55:28.880 --> 55:29.740]  No, that's not, that's not true.
[55:29.920 --> 55:30.080]  You went back to the complex.
[55:30.100 --> 55:30.860]  That's not, you weren't there.
[55:30.960 --> 55:31.540]  That's not true.
[55:31.620 --> 55:32.040]  I do the same things every day.
[55:32.140 --> 55:36.360]  They'll show up, and if the, the Elcon, the location contact isn't there, they roll.
[55:36.960 --> 55:37.320]  Immediately.
[55:37.800 --> 55:38.840]  Right around the corner to a bar.
[55:39.120 --> 55:40.260]  But then they say they're gone.
[55:40.260 --> 55:43.000]  And you get charged for the call-out, and you have to pay.
[55:43.400 --> 55:48.000]  Fortunately, in your case, since you're ordering it through somebody else, you probably don't get charged for it.
[55:48.180 --> 55:51.880]  But since you're going through somebody else, you also, literally, they won't talk to you.
[55:51.940 --> 55:53.020]  They cannot talk to you.
[55:53.240 --> 56:00.880]  For instance, if one of our customers orders a T1, and it's in trouble, and they call us, we have to tell them, sorry, call Bell.
[56:01.000 --> 56:01.720]  We can't call them.
[56:02.160 --> 56:03.400]  We can't talk to Bell.
[56:04.120 --> 56:05.380]  It's the same thing out here.
[56:05.560 --> 56:09.180]  Now, unfortunately also, you can't charge them for your downtime.
[56:09.180 --> 56:10.400]  It's all in the terrace.
[56:10.860 --> 56:11.260]  Amazing.
[56:11.720 --> 56:12.180]  It's amazing.
[56:12.580 --> 56:13.760]  You cannot charge them for anything.
[56:13.980 --> 56:15.160]  But it was weird.
[56:15.360 --> 56:16.540]  Five days is unacceptable.
[56:16.740 --> 56:24.020]  I've only dealt with probably two other T1s that were down like that for five days in about a decade of doing this stuff.
[56:24.040 --> 56:29.200]  And this is the third time in six weeks that we've gone down for more than a day because of something like this.
[56:29.320 --> 56:29.480]  Yeah.
[56:29.560 --> 56:32.360]  Now, Verizon is notoriously, you know, problematic.
[56:32.400 --> 56:34.340]  But still, five days is unacceptable.
[56:34.680 --> 56:36.840]  I would get that log.
[56:36.840 --> 56:38.240]  It will probably be difficult.
[56:38.420 --> 56:42.360]  You'll have to go through your service provider who will have to say, wow, we've never done this before.
[56:42.520 --> 56:46.580]  And then go to Verizon, go through the process, get the log, find out.
[56:46.660 --> 56:50.900]  You'll have to find out who every single person is on the log because their names aren't on there.
[56:50.960 --> 56:53.360]  It's usually an employee ID or technician ID.
[56:53.360 --> 56:56.420]  So it'll be a long and arduous process.
[56:56.420 --> 57:06.900]  But if you see, oh, gee, you know, what's this first level doing, intervening right here on our behalf when we didn't escalate to a first level, we didn't request a first level, even take a look at it.
[57:07.080 --> 57:10.820]  That would mean that a first level was informed by his second level.
[57:10.940 --> 57:12.500]  And you know how the managers go, right?
[57:12.600 --> 57:14.040]  First level, second level, and so forth.
[57:14.040 --> 57:14.320]  Right.
[57:14.480 --> 57:21.140]  That would mean that a first level was informed by a second level, hey, let's take 2600 down for the weekend, and that way they can't get the word out.
[57:21.520 --> 57:22.960]  But something to take a look at.
[57:23.180 --> 57:23.720]  It is weird.
[57:23.880 --> 57:25.380]  Five days is totally unacceptable.
[57:25.900 --> 57:27.100]  Write letters to the PUC.
[57:27.400 --> 57:28.520]  Write letters to everybody.
[57:28.660 --> 57:29.180]  Great sell.
[57:29.320 --> 57:29.660]  Good idea.
[57:29.820 --> 57:30.880]  Thanks for the advice.
[57:31.040 --> 57:31.340]  Yeah, call back.
[57:31.580 --> 57:32.140]  All right.
[57:32.500 --> 57:35.800]  Well, we're going to pursue this and see just what we find out.
[57:35.840 --> 57:37.440]  It's good to have people know what they're talking about out there.
[57:38.200 --> 57:38.620]  All right.
[57:38.660 --> 57:40.400]  Let's see if we can squeeze in one more phone call.
[57:40.820 --> 57:41.260]  Good evening.
[57:41.360 --> 57:41.820]  You're on the air.
[57:42.600 --> 57:53.260]  Hi, I'd just like to say a couple of things that the whole hacker thing, you had certain server, look, it's Russian for hacker, but you already found that out.
[57:53.440 --> 57:54.180]  And also...
[57:54.180 --> 57:55.640]  Ah, two listeners knew this.
[57:55.820 --> 57:55.820]  Two listeners.
[57:55.860 --> 57:56.720]  Wow, I'm impressed.
[57:56.740 --> 57:57.240]  That's impressive.
[57:57.560 --> 58:03.640]  And I also found out that Ralph Nader is going to be in New York on Saturday, I believe, at Hunter College.
[58:03.840 --> 58:04.240]  Yes.
[58:04.360 --> 58:06.500]  He's going to be there at 12 noon.
[58:07.400 --> 58:11.100]  I don't know if, like, normal people are going to be able to go in there.
[58:11.100 --> 58:11.700]  Uh-huh.
[58:11.900 --> 58:17.520]  Yeah, call the city campaign office, 353-3111.
[58:18.060 --> 58:18.840]  They should know.
[58:19.380 --> 58:20.040]  Very good, 212.
[58:20.360 --> 58:20.680]  Yes.
[58:20.840 --> 58:21.080]  Okay.
[58:22.100 --> 58:22.680]  All right, cool.
[58:23.060 --> 58:24.180]  Thanks for the call.
[58:24.660 --> 58:25.740]  All right, that's about it.
[58:25.900 --> 58:26.240]  All right.
[58:26.840 --> 58:29.140]  I guess we can probably squeeze in one more.
[58:29.300 --> 58:29.560]  Let's go over here.
[58:29.600 --> 58:29.840]  Good evening.
[58:29.940 --> 58:30.320]  You're on the air.
[58:30.840 --> 58:31.480]  Hey, Emmanuel.
[58:31.720 --> 58:32.280]  Tommy Pickles.
[58:32.420 --> 58:32.860]  Hey, how you doing?
[58:33.100 --> 58:33.880]  Listen, quick one.
[58:33.980 --> 58:35.160]  Did you get your sympathy card?
[58:36.400 --> 58:38.200]  Verizon sent out these sympathy cards?
[58:38.640 --> 58:39.940]  Verizon sent out sympathy cards?
[58:40.240 --> 58:43.160]  Printed out on Hallmark, especially for Verizon.
[58:43.500 --> 58:43.860]  Uh-huh.
[58:44.380 --> 58:51.260]  Having you as a customer means a great deal to us, and we strive to provide blah, blah, blah, and they go on, and we look forward to serving you in the future.
[58:51.360 --> 58:57.680]  The last line of their paragraph, though, was, we're sorry for any interruptions or delays you experienced during the strike.
[58:58.080 --> 58:58.860]  Oh, the strike.
[58:58.860 --> 59:01.440]  With a signature on it, fake address on the front.
[59:01.540 --> 59:02.400]  The strike was nothing.
[59:02.500 --> 59:04.400]  The strike was nothing compared to normal operations.
[59:04.800 --> 59:04.920]  Yeah.
[59:05.020 --> 59:05.540]  You know, it's amazing.
[59:05.620 --> 59:10.100]  The last caller said that Verizon is notoriously bad, and they've only been around a couple of months.
[59:10.220 --> 59:10.900]  I was going to point that out.
[59:11.060 --> 59:11.740]  Yeah, exactly.
[59:11.820 --> 59:15.520]  And they sent our sympathy cards to the New Yorker, so...
[59:15.520 --> 59:16.020]  Oh, wow.
[59:16.100 --> 59:17.480]  ...funny and hysterical.
[59:17.840 --> 59:27.920]  Also, I know this week is the meeting, so anyone who wants any info on Freaknik, November 3rd through the 5th, down in Nashville, Tennessee, hoping to see 2,600 out there.
[59:27.920 --> 59:31.080]  Yes, I haven't even thought about that, but we definitely have to start thinking about it.
[59:31.220 --> 59:37.180]  Yeah, so I'll be at the meeting, you know, what I look like, and we'll gather at a table and we'll talk about plans and stuff.
[59:37.280 --> 59:39.200]  I'm doing the streaming media down there this year.
[59:39.460 --> 59:39.940]  Okay, great.
[59:40.040 --> 59:42.420]  With the Moloch.org crew, and we'll be down there.
[59:42.600 --> 59:42.860]  Okay.
[59:43.040 --> 59:43.660]  Hey, thanks for calling.
[59:43.880 --> 59:44.400]  Yep, bye.
[59:44.400 --> 59:51.860]  And the meeting, of course, yeah, the meeting takes place this Friday, City Corp Center, 53rd Street between Lexington Park Avenue.
[59:52.100 --> 59:53.400]  No, between Lexington and 3rd Avenue, I'm sorry.
[59:53.640 --> 59:53.760]  Yes.
[59:54.000 --> 59:55.580]  And it runs from 5 to 8 p.m.
[59:55.580 --> 59:58.380]  Just follow all the security guards, that's where we are, and...
[59:58.380 --> 59:58.980]  In the falls.
[59:59.700 --> 01:00:00.060]  Yes.
[01:00:00.600 --> 01:00:06.600]  Look in the back of 2,600 Magazine for meetings in your city or country, first Friday of the month, every month.
[01:00:07.200 --> 01:00:10.820]  We'll be back again next week with another action-packed edition of Off the Hook.
[01:00:11.000 --> 01:00:11.380]  Without Rebel.
[01:00:11.760 --> 01:00:13.100]  Without Rebel, yeah, unfortunately.
[01:00:13.380 --> 01:00:13.540]  Sorry.
[01:00:14.080 --> 01:00:16.100]  OTH at 2,600.com is our email address.
[01:00:16.420 --> 01:00:17.260]  We'll talk to you next week.
[01:00:17.320 --> 01:00:17.500]  Good night.
[01:00:20.020 --> 01:00:20.640]  I hope they would.
[01:00:20.940 --> 01:00:23.600]  On Diddley Bom, but the best, expect the worst.
[01:00:24.360 --> 01:00:26.120]  I hope that's understood.
[01:00:26.340 --> 01:00:27.180]  On Diddley Bom.
[01:01:04.920 --> 01:01:10.440]  Please, I would like to give a shout-out to all the prisoners throughout the world.
[01:01:13.380 --> 01:01:18.760]  The prison system is out of control, and people you love are living under conditions that no one deserves.
[01:01:19.280 --> 01:01:28.640]  Why not let them know you care by sending them a message over the airways with WBAR's Prisoner Shout-Out Line, broadcasting your voice every Thursday morning at 645.
[01:01:29.100 --> 01:01:31.720]  Do you have a loved one behind bars and you haven't called?
[01:01:31.980 --> 01:01:36.720]  Pick up the phone and dial 212-209-2958.
[01:01:37.120 --> 01:01:43.600]  That's the Prisoner Shout-Out Line, 212-209-2958.
[01:01:43.600 --> 01:01:45.840]  I miss you so much at home, man.
[01:01:45.940 --> 01:01:47.020]  I really do, man.
[01:01:47.780 --> 01:01:49.680]  Stay strong, brother, man.
[01:01:50.740 --> 01:01:51.740]  Daddy loves you.
[01:01:52.300 --> 01:01:55.800]  Stay strong, and we'll be all right.