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[01:10.860 --> 01:16.400]  And you're listening to radio station WBAI in New York, where it's time for Off the Hook.
[01:23.660 --> 01:27.880]  Difted off the wall, I caught myself while shaving.
[01:28.480 --> 01:29.140]  Now I
[01:35.570 --> 01:38.790]  would, bum-diddly-bum, but I best expect the worst.
[01:39.490 --> 01:42.310]  I hope that's understood, bum-diddly-bum!
[03:51.300 --> 03:52.060]  How you doing?
[03:52.400 --> 03:53.040]  Not bad, yourself?
[03:53.520 --> 03:54.540]  Oh, pretty good, pretty good.
[03:55.440 --> 03:58.140]  Shock, appalled, dismayed, upset, that kind of thing.
[03:58.700 --> 03:59.280]  At what?
[03:59.280 --> 04:06.240]  Oh, just the things in general, I mean, well, you don't read the papers, you don't know what's going on, you don't see what's happening outside in the streets.
[04:06.920 --> 04:07.360]  Streets?
[04:08.460 --> 04:11.800]  It's, uh, it's pretty, it's pretty horrible, it really is.
[04:13.200 --> 04:14.140]  Where do I begin?
[04:14.340 --> 04:15.240]  Where do I begin?
[04:15.380 --> 04:18.060]  It's just, this is so bad.
[04:18.220 --> 04:19.480]  The things that are going on.
[04:19.740 --> 04:20.000]  All right.
[04:20.840 --> 04:25.960]  Let's start, let's start with, uh, have you heard about the Cisco-Microsoft scandal?
[04:26.340 --> 04:27.880]  The Cisco-Microsoft scandal?
[04:27.880 --> 04:32.140]  One of the Cisco-Microsoft scandals, but, uh, this is, this is a pretty big one, I think.
[04:33.280 --> 04:34.780]  So it would be Psycho-Soft.
[04:34.880 --> 04:36.280]  Actually, you, you, you probably like this.
[04:36.360 --> 04:39.000]  You probably get some sort of sadistic thrill out of this, but, uh...
[04:39.000 --> 04:39.400]  Okay, go ahead.
[04:39.580 --> 04:44.740]  This is, this is a story that, that moved in the, uh, what is this, the San Francisco Gate.
[04:46.520 --> 04:47.160]  SFgate.com.
[04:47.280 --> 04:50.220]  I don't quite know if that's a newspaper or electronic thing.
[04:50.380 --> 04:50.680]  I don't know.
[04:50.940 --> 04:51.360]  It doesn't matter.
[04:51.440 --> 04:52.000]  It's a big door.
[04:52.000 --> 05:01.980]  Point is, they, um, uh, they revealed the fact that both Cisco and Microsoft, uh, companies that made a lot of money last year, paid not one penny of federal income tax.
[05:02.420 --> 05:03.020]  Isn't that something?
[05:03.300 --> 05:03.600]  Really?
[05:03.900 --> 05:04.660]  Isn't that something?
[05:05.260 --> 05:06.340]  I'll read you a part of the story.
[05:06.440 --> 05:07.360]  Cisco Systems, Inc.
[05:07.400 --> 05:16.220]  and Microsoft Corporation, two of the nation's richest companies, capitalized on the windfall profits of their employees to wipe out their federal income tax bills last year.
[05:16.220 --> 05:19.580]  San Jose-based Cisco, the second most valuable U.S.
[05:19.700 --> 05:25.940]  company behind General Electric, eliminated a $1.8 billion income tax liability.
[05:26.180 --> 05:27.240]  And guess how they did it?
[05:27.280 --> 05:33.880]  They deducted the gains that its employees realized from stock options during the company's most recent fiscal year.
[05:33.880 --> 05:46.880]  Redmond, Washington-based Microsoft, the world's largest computer software company, recorded a $5.5 billion tax benefit by deducting its employees' profits from stock options during its last fiscal year.
[05:47.080 --> 05:53.700]  Microsoft reported federal and state tax liabilities of $4.74 billion in the year ending June 30th.
[05:54.240 --> 05:58.460]  Cisco earned $2.7 billion in its last fiscal year ending July 29th.
[05:58.540 --> 06:01.120]  Microsoft profit totaled $9.4 billion.
[06:01.120 --> 06:09.380]  The San Francisco Chronicle detailed the tax relief received by both Cisco and Microsoft in Monday's editions based on recently released financial statements.
[06:11.860 --> 06:14.220]  It's unbelievable that they actually can get away with this kind of thing.
[06:14.280 --> 06:15.920]  That's actually a pretty neat idea.
[06:15.960 --> 06:24.240]  Well, it's a pretty neat idea, except for the fact that there's over $10 billion that we've got to shoulder the cost for because they're making profit out of it.
[06:24.340 --> 06:26.080]  And the amazing thing is that, okay...
[06:26.080 --> 06:27.100]  What do you mean shoulder the cost?
[06:27.320 --> 06:29.020]  Well, where do you think money comes from?
[06:29.200 --> 06:30.560]  You know, it doesn't fall out of the trees.
[06:30.560 --> 06:35.300]  If someone's got to pay taxes, and if they're not paying taxes, we've got to cover the gap, right?
[06:35.300 --> 06:38.720]  How about the employees that are the ones who had the...
[06:38.720 --> 06:40.800]  What is the technical term for this?
[06:42.260 --> 06:43.140]  The windfall?
[06:43.300 --> 06:43.720]  Is that what you're saying?
[06:43.740 --> 06:44.340]  No, no, no, no, no.
[06:44.600 --> 06:49.740]  When a capital gain for each individual employee, that gets taxed, perhaps?
[06:50.120 --> 07:00.760]  Well, the point is, they're hypocrites, because they use this to get out of paying taxes by writing it down as some sort of an expense, I guess.
[07:01.060 --> 07:02.060]  That's probably the most simple...
[07:02.060 --> 07:03.120]  They're passing it on to their employees.
[07:03.280 --> 07:05.920]  Well, they're reporting to the IRS that it's an expense.
[07:06.100 --> 07:12.220]  So, therefore, because we paid this amount of money, we don't have to pay tax on it, and that's how they get away with it.
[07:12.220 --> 07:18.740]  But, if you look at their corporate profile, that doesn't show up as a loss.
[07:20.200 --> 07:23.040]  They fought to keep that from being counted against their profits.
[07:23.180 --> 07:26.260]  So, it still looks like they're making a lot of money, yet they don't pay any tax.
[07:26.360 --> 07:27.560]  They can't have it both ways.
[07:28.540 --> 07:29.840]  It's just totally insane.
[07:30.260 --> 07:33.460]  I don't know about the numbers, but a couple of them sounded kind of interesting.
[07:33.780 --> 07:35.420]  Microsoft made how much last year?
[07:37.100 --> 07:40.200]  Microsoft, let's see, they had a $5.5 billion tax benefit.
[07:40.200 --> 07:42.420]  But, their profits totaled $9.4 billion.
[07:42.620 --> 07:45.840]  Okay, so $9.4 billion is how much they made.
[07:45.980 --> 07:46.280]  Yes.
[07:46.560 --> 07:49.660]  And they should have paid $5.5 billion in taxes.
[07:51.080 --> 07:53.420]  According to this, it's a $5.5 billion tax benefit.
[07:53.720 --> 07:54.680]  So, more than half...
[07:54.680 --> 07:57.980]  Well, you just said that they didn't pay a single penny in federal income tax.
[07:58.080 --> 07:58.220]  Right.
[07:58.300 --> 08:00.620]  So, they would have basically paid that much.
[08:01.160 --> 08:03.700]  If they were paying taxes, yeah, I guess they would have paid that much.
[08:03.700 --> 08:09.220]  So, this company pays more than half of its profits to the United States federal government...
[08:09.220 --> 08:09.760]  No, they don't.
[08:09.760 --> 08:10.400]  That's the whole point.
[08:10.480 --> 08:10.840]  They don't.
[08:10.840 --> 08:11.460]  They don't pay a penny.
[08:11.580 --> 08:12.060]  They don't pay anything.
[08:14.340 --> 08:17.900]  More than half the money they made would have gone to the public...
[08:18.380 --> 08:20.040]  This has been going on for decades.
[08:20.340 --> 08:28.060]  Large corporations find ways out of paying taxes, and you and I wind up paying more, literally more, than they do every year.
[08:28.260 --> 08:30.160]  And it's just completely insane.
[08:30.380 --> 08:30.840]  Listen to this.
[08:30.840 --> 08:37.700]  Even a leading anti-tax group criticized the practice that allows Cisco, a leading maker of computer networking equipment, to skirt taxes.
[08:38.120 --> 08:46.700]  From the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association, John Kupal says, for a company that makes that kind of money, not to pay taxes raises serious tax equity questions.
[08:47.400 --> 08:55.280]  Stock options, a staple of most compensation packages in the technology industry, give an employee the right to buy a specific number of shares at a fixed price.
[08:55.280 --> 09:03.340]  The difference between the fixed price and the actual stock market price at the time an employee redeems the options result in a profit for the worker and a deduction for the business.
[09:03.840 --> 09:09.940]  The boom in tech stocks over the past few years has generated staggering gains for employees and substantial deductions for employers.
[09:10.440 --> 09:17.700]  For instance, Cisco's 34,000 employees earned more than $7 billion by exercising stock options during the company's most recent fiscal year.
[09:17.700 --> 09:29.300]  According to the Chronicle, those employee profits resulted in a $2.5 billion tax benefit for Cisco, up from $837 million in fiscal 1999 and $422 million in fiscal 1998.
[09:30.300 --> 09:31.840]  Now, this is the thing.
[09:31.920 --> 09:32.420]  This is what I mentioned.
[09:32.600 --> 09:42.480]  While they snap up the tax benefits provided by stock options, high-tech companies have fiercely opposed proposals that would require them to deduct the cost of issuing the options from their reported earnings.
[09:43.120 --> 09:45.420]  I mean, how can you possibly have it both ways?
[09:45.920 --> 09:47.560]  Oh, everyone has it both ways.
[09:47.700 --> 09:48.400]  I don't.
[09:48.540 --> 09:48.820]  Yeah.
[09:48.980 --> 09:49.880]  You don't have it both ways?
[09:50.020 --> 09:50.200]  Okay.
[09:50.300 --> 09:50.800]  I don't think so.
[09:50.900 --> 09:52.140]  None of us have it both ways.
[09:52.260 --> 09:53.280]  I don't even have it one way.
[09:54.700 --> 09:55.800]  So, it's completely crazy.
[09:55.800 --> 09:56.980]  Everyone wants to have it both ways.
[09:57.140 --> 09:57.700]  That's a different story.
[09:58.400 --> 09:59.380]  Yeah, but I can't.
[09:59.540 --> 10:00.160]  Why can't you?
[10:00.580 --> 10:02.000]  Because I don't have $5 billion.
[10:02.540 --> 10:03.000]  That's true.
[10:03.340 --> 10:07.360]  You're also not a large corporation who has plenty of employees selling IPOs.
[10:07.440 --> 10:09.860]  Several B-52s didn't get built as a result of that, I'll bet.
[10:11.600 --> 10:11.920]  Yeah.
[10:12.260 --> 10:14.200]  And who's the first one that's going to start complaining when that happens?
[10:14.420 --> 10:14.880]  Well, hey.
[10:15.700 --> 10:23.220]  But the point is, you've still got all those people who, all those employees are now shouldering those taxes and capital gains.
[10:23.240 --> 10:26.400]  No, they're all weaseling out through loopholes that they're accountants.
[10:26.660 --> 10:26.880]  Other loopholes.
[10:26.880 --> 10:27.400]  Yeah, other loopholes.
[10:27.640 --> 10:27.880]  Yeah, of course.
[10:28.020 --> 10:29.520]  Little, tiny loopholes.
[10:29.520 --> 10:35.600]  Meanwhile, you know, there's billions of dollars going someplace, but it's not going to any place that's doing any good, except for that one company.
[10:35.820 --> 10:36.680]  Well, let's move on.
[10:37.200 --> 10:37.620]  All right.
[10:38.920 --> 10:39.960]  Where do we go next?
[10:40.120 --> 10:40.360]  Okay.
[10:42.300 --> 10:45.180]  Senate Committee okays revised anti-hacking laws.
[10:45.340 --> 10:46.040]  This is actually kind of interesting.
[10:46.160 --> 10:46.460]  The U.S.
[10:46.560 --> 10:58.380]  Senate Judiciary Committee has approved a bill that clarifies federal law enforcement authorities' power to prosecute hackers and other computer criminals, and allocates more federal money to agencies that investigate cybercrimes.
[10:59.340 --> 11:05.680]  One of the provisions that was amended deals with current federal law's $5,000 damage threshold for cybercrimes.
[11:05.900 --> 11:16.760]  Current law says a crime that causes less than $5,000 does not fall under federal jurisdiction unless the crime causes injury to a person, a threat to public safety, or in some way hampers medical treatment.
[11:16.860 --> 11:17.380]  May I translate?
[11:17.880 --> 11:18.220]  Yes.
[11:18.400 --> 11:21.600]  If it's less than $5,000, it doesn't pay to investigate it.
[11:21.760 --> 11:28.240]  The original bill would have eliminated the $5,000 threshold, raising a variety of minor computer crimes to the level of federal offense.
[11:28.380 --> 11:35.780]  The bill, as amended, retains the $5,000 threshold for federal jurisdiction over hacker attacks, the release of viruses, and other common computer crimes.
[11:35.840 --> 11:39.500]  But it clarifies how the $5,000 damage is calculated.
[11:40.220 --> 11:41.720]  So that's kind of an important point.
[11:41.760 --> 11:41.860]  That's positive.
[11:41.900 --> 11:42.540]  Yeah, that is positive.
[11:42.620 --> 11:43.960]  That's something that I think is...
[11:43.960 --> 11:46.140]  Not getting the $80 million cost of development.
[11:46.720 --> 11:47.160]  Exactly.
[11:47.160 --> 11:48.720]  Solaris going on you.
[11:48.860 --> 11:51.580]  Now, Pat Leahy, Vermont senator, is behind this.
[11:51.700 --> 11:56.660]  He says, Our federal laws do not need to reach each and every minor inadvertent and harmless computer abuse.
[11:57.660 --> 12:01.820]  The original bill would have made certain unauthorized access to a personal computer a federal crime.
[12:01.820 --> 12:09.260]  For example, a curious college student who accidentally deleted a file while searching a professor's unattended computer could have been prosecuted under federal law.
[12:10.280 --> 12:10.680]  Unbelievable.
[12:11.340 --> 12:12.360]  Let's see how, but okay.
[12:12.900 --> 12:13.840]  That happens all the time.
[12:14.460 --> 12:17.520]  But yeah, that's some good, I guess.
[12:17.920 --> 12:19.760]  Some good in a world of bad.
[12:22.580 --> 12:23.080]  Let's see.
[12:23.160 --> 12:23.840]  Where do we go next?
[12:23.840 --> 12:23.860]  Next.
[12:25.520 --> 12:29.400]  AT&T is considering charging merchants for customers.
[12:29.720 --> 12:38.520]  AT&T Corporation considering a plan to charge internet retailers a commission each time a customer buys something through the telecom's broadband network.
[12:39.180 --> 12:39.660]  Huh?
[12:39.940 --> 12:42.120]  I guess I want to know how they're going to do this.
[12:42.240 --> 12:42.420]  I don't know.
[12:42.420 --> 12:43.840]  How are they going to keep track of that?
[12:43.880 --> 12:45.360]  I think they're going to use Carnivore or something.
[12:45.740 --> 12:50.660]  AT&T would also collect a fee from retailers each time a customer accesses their site through its network.
[12:50.660 --> 13:03.240]  The change would help AT&T reduce dependence on its shrinking consumer long-distance telephone business and make money off traffic on the high-speed broadband networks it gained through its acquisitions of Telecommunications Inc.
[13:03.340 --> 13:03.980]  and MediaOne.
[13:04.200 --> 13:10.960]  So this is the first indication that they're going to sell off all their switch networks and go to packet switch networks.
[13:11.280 --> 13:11.740]  Hmm.
[13:12.100 --> 13:12.480]  You know what?
[13:12.620 --> 13:17.340]  I want a quarter percent commission any time any of you buy anything online.
[13:17.520 --> 13:18.520]  It's amazing how they can just do this.
[13:18.520 --> 13:19.780]  Yeah, but we don't use you to buy stuff online.
[13:19.780 --> 13:21.500]  I want it anyway.
[13:22.460 --> 13:25.860]  AT&T plans to shift to the new fee structure next year.
[13:26.460 --> 13:30.600]  Other analysts said the new pricing plan is still under consideration and no decision has been made.
[13:30.780 --> 13:34.240]  Now, here's what they use as an excuse.
[13:35.060 --> 13:41.660]  Their primary long-distance product is five cents away from being free, so they need to find a new growth engine.
[13:42.040 --> 13:45.140]  Yeah, because they're charging next to nothing for long-distance.
[13:45.840 --> 13:50.720]  They've got to make money somehow, so they're just going to charge everybody who uses their bandwidth to get someplace.
[13:50.720 --> 13:55.160]  Not that they have a choice on how to get there, but they're somehow going to just take that money.
[13:55.280 --> 14:02.060]  So watch the mass exodus from AT&T networks as people start to route around them and other wonderful things.
[14:02.060 --> 14:02.200]  They can.
[14:02.280 --> 14:05.480]  Let's hope AT&T doesn't buy everything in sight and make it so you can't route around them.
[14:05.620 --> 14:06.600]  Well, they're not making any money.
[14:07.280 --> 14:08.080]  You just said so.
[14:08.200 --> 14:24.240]  If the post office gets a hold of this, then if you send somebody like, you know, if you mailed somebody like, oh, a Rolex or something like that, they could say, oh, well, you know, the stamp costs 50 cents, but since you just made $5,000, we're going to charge you $50.
[14:24.240 --> 14:25.760]  $50 for the...
[14:25.760 --> 14:26.320]  Yeah.
[14:26.600 --> 14:28.040]  Well, you'd be paying that in insurance anyway.
[14:28.160 --> 14:29.360]  Now, okay, here's the other thing, though.
[14:30.020 --> 14:34.340]  They say we're only charging five cents a minute, you know, and it's like, you know, that's nothing.
[14:34.560 --> 14:35.520]  We don't make any money off that.
[14:35.600 --> 14:36.520]  They make a ton of money.
[14:36.580 --> 14:37.700]  Do you really, for one second...
[14:37.700 --> 14:38.740]  Why do they have to justify themselves, actually?
[14:39.080 --> 14:40.220]  Why do they have to justify themselves?
[14:40.340 --> 14:44.820]  Well, they're planning on charging people for things they don't charge for without, you know...
[14:44.820 --> 14:46.600]  Well, I mean, they have to justify something.
[14:46.760 --> 14:48.720]  Whatever happens to We're the Phone Company, tough?
[14:49.160 --> 14:50.660]  Because they're not the phone company anymore.
[14:50.780 --> 14:52.100]  There's lots of phone companies, supposedly.
[14:52.340 --> 14:53.040]  Although, I agree.
[14:53.040 --> 14:54.400]  Hey, there's too much of one.
[14:54.920 --> 14:57.000]  There should be many.
[14:57.400 --> 15:00.000]  Anyway, but the point you inadvertently made.
[15:01.180 --> 15:02.280]  Here's a company I found.
[15:02.700 --> 15:04.040]  That's a number six on the front.
[15:04.060 --> 15:05.280]  Yeah, this is six cents a minute.
[15:05.480 --> 15:10.940]  Anytime, I'm going to read this brochure to you, and this will just go to show how they make money hand over fist with these little deals.
[15:11.720 --> 15:14.280]  Anytime, six cents a minute, domestic, long distance.
[15:14.540 --> 15:15.260]  Save every minute.
[15:15.500 --> 15:16.260]  Save every day.
[15:16.480 --> 15:18.360]  Save every long distance call.
[15:18.800 --> 15:22.300]  Everyday savings when you call long distance with Quest.
[15:23.040 --> 15:24.620]  All right, Quest is another one of these companies.
[15:24.940 --> 15:27.320]  Probably owned by somebody else, but as far as I know, they're just Quest.
[15:27.840 --> 15:28.900]  Now, here's the deal, though.
[15:28.940 --> 15:30.860]  You have to pay with your American Express card.
[15:31.000 --> 15:32.920]  All right, so that eliminates all the poor people.
[15:33.100 --> 15:36.500]  You have to have an American Express card and pay for your calls that way.
[15:36.520 --> 15:38.480]  Don't forget, American Express gets the fees off of that, too.
[15:38.620 --> 15:40.780]  Now, I'm asking you for the catch.
[15:40.900 --> 15:42.480]  Is there any other catch besides American Express?
[15:42.780 --> 15:44.280]  I'm going to read the details here.
[15:44.780 --> 15:47.020]  Don't miss your chance to save on long distance calls.
[15:47.140 --> 15:48.940]  How big is this type button that you're reading, by the way?
[15:49.320 --> 15:51.640]  Is it like tiny or medium space?
[15:51.800 --> 15:52.760]  This part is normal.
[15:52.760 --> 15:52.760]  Normal.
[15:52.920 --> 15:53.440]  This part is normal.
[15:53.500 --> 15:53.840]  This is normal.
[15:54.000 --> 15:54.160]  Yeah.
[15:54.880 --> 15:57.200]  We teamed up with... I guess this is a letter from American Express.
[15:57.440 --> 16:06.640]  We teamed up with Quest, a leading provider of worldwide communication services, to design a calling plan exclusively for American Express corporate card members who are white and wealthy.
[16:07.620 --> 16:08.460]  That's not written on it.
[16:08.500 --> 16:09.120]  No, it's a tiny print.
[16:09.440 --> 16:10.560]  Here are some of the benefits.
[16:11.080 --> 16:14.780]  Six cents a minute on domestic, long distance calls, every minute, every day.
[16:15.700 --> 16:16.100]  Okay.
[16:16.320 --> 16:16.500]  All right.
[16:17.140 --> 16:20.000]  Seventeen cents a minute calling card with no connection fees.
[16:20.000 --> 16:21.040]  Wait, hold on.
[16:21.280 --> 16:22.920]  How did it jump from six cents a minute?
[16:23.040 --> 16:23.840]  Ah, calling card.
[16:24.040 --> 16:24.380]  Okay, yeah.
[16:24.560 --> 16:24.640]  Good point.
[16:24.640 --> 16:25.220]  Yeah, it's a calling card.
[16:25.420 --> 16:26.360]  It's a calling card.
[16:26.440 --> 16:28.060]  If you use a calling card, you got to pay a little more.
[16:28.420 --> 16:29.640]  Some companies are high.
[16:29.800 --> 16:31.420]  You know, some companies are like 69 cents a minute.
[16:31.520 --> 16:32.460]  You know, you have to watch that.
[16:32.800 --> 16:35.380]  But a calling card, yeah, 17 cents a minute calling card with no connection fees.
[16:35.380 --> 16:38.000]  So that falls into a different area of the Venn diagram we're making here.
[16:38.080 --> 16:38.220]  Okay.
[16:38.340 --> 16:38.520]  Right.
[16:39.380 --> 16:40.300]  No monthly fees.
[16:40.600 --> 16:41.480]  No monthly fees.
[16:41.480 --> 16:41.760]  No monthly fees.
[16:41.860 --> 16:42.540]  Except for the American.
[16:42.580 --> 16:44.920]  You have to pay your bill every month with American Express.
[16:44.920 --> 16:46.440]  Well, yeah, but there's no monthly fee.
[16:46.620 --> 16:47.240]  Yeah, well...
[16:47.240 --> 16:48.140]  No monthly fee.
[16:48.260 --> 16:50.540]  Well, you've got to ride the APR for your credit card.
[16:50.540 --> 16:52.040]  Well, that's not their problem.
[16:52.160 --> 16:52.340]  We'll ignore that.
[16:52.360 --> 16:54.300]  Yeah, that's not anything that they did.
[16:54.460 --> 16:54.640]  Okay.
[16:55.040 --> 16:57.660]  It's the newest addition to the Everyday Savings Program.
[16:58.140 --> 16:59.180]  Because you can save every day.
[16:59.360 --> 17:03.820]  The easiest way for small businesses to get exclusive savings on the things you use every day.
[17:04.400 --> 17:06.600]  How many times do they say every day on this damn thing?
[17:06.980 --> 17:09.860]  So, don't wait to save on long-distance calls.
[17:10.200 --> 17:10.680]  I won't.
[17:10.720 --> 17:11.620]  And then there's the phone number.
[17:12.020 --> 17:13.260]  Call Quest, this number.
[17:13.600 --> 17:13.860]  All right.
[17:13.860 --> 17:16.260]  So, how much can I save flushing my toilet every day?
[17:16.400 --> 17:17.380]  Because that's something I use.
[17:17.860 --> 17:18.580]  Is there...
[17:18.580 --> 17:27.920]  From reading this, okay, from just looking at all these everyday savings every minute, is there anything that would ring an alarm in your head that they missed?
[17:28.000 --> 17:29.340]  Not in that size font, no.
[17:29.460 --> 17:31.120]  No monthly fees, six cents a minute.
[17:31.560 --> 17:32.600]  Seventeen for the calling cards.
[17:32.760 --> 17:34.480]  Do you see any possible way you could pay more?
[17:34.660 --> 17:36.800]  I mean, is there any possible way this could not be a good deal?
[17:36.880 --> 17:39.000]  Well, that's not exactly a contract you have in your hand.
[17:39.100 --> 17:42.680]  It's a piece of paper they send out as basically physical spam.
[17:42.680 --> 17:45.200]  This is the hook that the fisherman throws into the water, yeah.
[17:45.580 --> 17:48.140]  And, okay, people bite into it and then they get reeled in.
[17:48.400 --> 17:51.320]  Now, is there a way you can get screwed on a deal like this?
[17:51.360 --> 17:51.920]  I'd like to ask you.
[17:52.000 --> 17:54.740]  If that's a contract, it's not a contract.
[17:54.780 --> 17:54.900]  It's an ad.
[17:54.900 --> 17:56.000]  No, I'm not saying it's a contract.
[17:56.020 --> 17:56.580]  It's an ad.
[17:56.700 --> 18:00.400]  But, obviously, you're signing up with the understanding of what is said in the advertisement.
[18:00.640 --> 18:00.900]  All right?
[18:00.900 --> 18:02.460]  So, I'm asking one more time.
[18:02.460 --> 18:05.540]  Is there anything you're wary of that you think maybe we missed?
[18:05.660 --> 18:05.760]  All right.
[18:05.820 --> 18:08.660]  To continue the fisherman metaphor we're using here, I'll bite.
[18:09.120 --> 18:09.440]  No.
[18:09.560 --> 18:09.680]  You don't think so?
[18:09.680 --> 18:11.520]  There's nothing else in there that we missed.
[18:11.800 --> 18:12.060]  Okay.
[18:12.100 --> 18:12.580]  We've got John here.
[18:12.620 --> 18:12.980]  What do you think?
[18:14.040 --> 18:15.360]  As far as I can tell, no.
[18:15.600 --> 18:17.720]  I mean, I know that they're, you know.
[18:18.280 --> 18:19.980]  But, no, it's not as far as I can tell.
[18:20.060 --> 18:20.600]  Mike, how about you?
[18:22.080 --> 18:24.440]  Nothing in the medium print sets me off.
[18:30.900 --> 18:32.940]  The photo on the front definitely puts me off.
[18:33.860 --> 18:34.260]  What?
[18:34.540 --> 18:35.400]  Of that guy.
[18:35.640 --> 18:36.400]  Guy making a phone call?
[18:36.520 --> 18:36.580]  Yeah.
[18:37.060 --> 18:37.900]  Looks like he's asleep.
[18:38.260 --> 18:39.400]  No, it looks like he's...
[18:39.400 --> 18:40.240]  Phoning in a bomb threat.
[18:40.440 --> 18:41.320]  Yeah, something like that.
[18:42.920 --> 18:43.520]  Yeah, anyway.
[18:43.580 --> 18:44.900]  Special discounted rate for bomb threats.
[18:44.900 --> 18:45.460]  Okay, let's read.
[18:46.100 --> 18:50.740]  Offer applies only to American Express corporate card members for small business.
[18:51.000 --> 18:52.360]  No, actually, it said American Express before.
[18:52.480 --> 18:53.320]  No, no, it said corporate.
[18:53.420 --> 18:54.040]  Did it say...
[18:54.040 --> 18:54.840]  Oh, yeah, you're right.
[18:54.840 --> 18:55.140]  You're right.
[18:55.220 --> 18:55.620]  I missed that.
[18:55.680 --> 18:55.820]  Okay.
[18:55.940 --> 18:56.780]  Well, that's something else.
[18:56.980 --> 18:58.340]  I guess regular people wouldn't get this.
[18:58.540 --> 18:59.820]  You have to be part of a corporation.
[19:00.060 --> 19:00.460]  Yeah, you have to be...
[19:00.460 --> 19:02.020]  All right, so that eliminates even more people.
[19:02.200 --> 19:04.060]  But again, you know, that doesn't change anything in the deal.
[19:04.200 --> 19:04.320]  Right.
[19:04.760 --> 19:05.040]  All right.
[19:06.400 --> 19:11.640]  Monthly minimum usage of $25 must be met, or minimum usage charge of $25 will be applied.
[19:13.160 --> 19:13.520]  Interesting.
[19:13.580 --> 19:22.200]  So wait, so if you spend $24.99, right, which is almost $25, then they'll still hit you, and it'll be $49.99.
[19:22.680 --> 19:23.560]  No, that's not how it works.
[19:23.660 --> 19:23.980]  Yeah, sure.
[19:24.200 --> 19:25.560]  Unless you meet $25.
[19:25.760 --> 19:26.680]  No, it's a monthly minimum.
[19:26.840 --> 19:29.680]  Monthly minimum means that it's applied, it's offset, basically.
[19:29.820 --> 19:30.300]  Oh, it's offset.
[19:30.300 --> 19:30.580]  Okay.
[19:30.900 --> 19:33.760]  Yeah, so you have to pay at least $25 every month.
[19:34.160 --> 19:34.680]  All right?
[19:34.800 --> 19:35.060]  I see.
[19:35.440 --> 19:36.880]  Now, let's do a little calculation.
[19:36.940 --> 19:38.100]  We were a little cynical there, but okay.
[19:38.100 --> 19:39.040]  Does anybody have a calculator?
[19:39.620 --> 19:41.340]  I have a calculator.
[19:41.360 --> 19:42.180]  Just a smart head.
[19:42.680 --> 19:43.220]  All right.
[19:43.620 --> 19:44.720]  Smart heads in this room?
[19:44.720 --> 19:47.120]  I'd like to know, six cents a minute.
[19:47.300 --> 19:49.580]  How many minutes is that to get to $25?
[19:50.320 --> 19:50.580]  Okay.
[19:50.640 --> 19:53.040]  That's 25 divided by .06.
[19:54.000 --> 19:57.900]  That would be 416 and two-thirds minutes.
[19:58.100 --> 19:59.220]  Now, divide that by 60.
[19:59.300 --> 20:00.280]  Let's see how many hours that is.
[20:00.280 --> 20:01.120]  How many hours that is.
[20:01.180 --> 20:04.000]  That would be 6.94 hours.
[20:04.000 --> 20:07.600]  Do you spend seven hours a month long distance on the phone?
[20:08.160 --> 20:09.420]  Very few people do.
[20:10.180 --> 20:11.300]  I can't say that.
[20:11.360 --> 20:20.460]  For all the people who don't spend seven hours a month on a long distance phone call, that's where they make their money, from calls that are never made.
[20:20.460 --> 20:24.300]  Well, I have to admit that, you know, it's five cents away from being free.
[20:24.560 --> 20:25.100]  Six cents away.
[20:25.200 --> 20:30.100]  So I really, I couldn't help but take advantage of those eight hours a month of being on the phone.
[20:31.300 --> 20:34.920]  I mean, I've had long distance bills that are, you know, $3 a month sometimes.
[20:35.500 --> 20:37.220]  But that would go away.
[20:37.300 --> 20:38.340]  Yeah, you don't even have long distance.
[20:38.540 --> 20:45.260]  But I spend a buck 70 something to have the honor of not having long distance, which is a different story entirely.
[20:46.060 --> 20:48.020]  I'm looking for any other little things here.
[20:48.020 --> 20:56.980]  The 60 cents and 17 cent rates listed above apply only to switched inbound and outbound interstate service, outbound only for the 17 cent rate.
[20:58.360 --> 21:01.760]  Oh, that's definitely a big, that's a big loophole right there.
[21:01.900 --> 21:02.820]  In the continental U.S.
[21:03.080 --> 21:09.860]  Yeah, because as soon as they switch carriers or trunks, they're going to, the 17 cents a minute is right out the window.
[21:10.340 --> 21:10.540]  Yeah.
[21:11.060 --> 21:15.040]  Rates for international intrastate and intralaticals may vary.
[21:15.040 --> 21:19.780]  So if you accidentally call inside New York State, you might get, you know, 20 cents a minute.
[21:19.880 --> 21:20.220]  Who knows?
[21:21.260 --> 21:28.420]  Quest may accept or reject any card member service orders in its sole discretion, and the offer may be suspended, modified, or terminated without notice.
[21:29.440 --> 21:31.880]  Where do I get to write terms like this?
[21:31.920 --> 21:35.920]  You know, and just say, I could charge you $10 if I want, you know, and I don't have to tell you.
[21:36.060 --> 21:38.780]  I listened to Ralph Nader speak the other night.
[21:38.780 --> 21:45.820]  And he quoted a survey of law professors, and they asked them, do you read the fine print when you sign things?
[21:45.960 --> 21:48.100]  And the overwhelming majority said no.
[21:48.400 --> 21:52.260]  And it's not because they don't understand or anything, it's because they know they can't change it.
[21:52.500 --> 21:53.300]  They're stuck.
[21:53.600 --> 21:53.700]  Yeah.
[21:54.040 --> 21:54.220]  Yeah.
[21:54.580 --> 21:56.500]  He was at, what, Columbia last week?
[21:56.660 --> 21:56.820]  Mm-hmm.
[21:56.960 --> 21:57.680]  Nobody knows about that.
[21:57.760 --> 22:00.320]  He was at Hunter on Saturday, but he was also at Columbia on Friday.
[22:00.520 --> 22:01.140]  It's a secret.
[22:01.400 --> 22:02.440]  It's not a secret anymore.
[22:02.460 --> 22:03.300]  He already was there.
[22:03.480 --> 22:04.080]  Dun-dun-dun.
[22:04.080 --> 22:08.220]  But I got something in my mailbox about him appearing at Madison Square Garden on Friday.
[22:08.460 --> 22:08.960]  No, that's...
[22:08.960 --> 22:10.740]  Ralph, Ralph Nader, Nader.
[22:11.020 --> 22:12.080]  That's got to be...
[22:12.900 --> 22:13.840]  That's got to be a show.
[22:14.220 --> 22:14.460]  Yeah.
[22:14.980 --> 22:16.420]  Do you have the list of guests?
[22:17.240 --> 22:18.020]  Let's see here.
[22:18.400 --> 22:19.760]  Annie DeFranco, Phil Donahue.
[22:19.820 --> 22:21.700]  I always wondered what happened to Phil Donahue, and now we know.
[22:21.700 --> 22:22.140]  He's not dead.
[22:22.380 --> 22:22.840]  No, he's not.
[22:23.000 --> 22:23.100]  No.
[22:23.360 --> 22:27.700]  Ben Harper, Michael Moore, Bill Murray, Tim Robbins, Susan Sarandon, and Eddie Fetter.
[22:28.140 --> 22:29.440]  And more to be announced.
[22:29.860 --> 22:32.240]  It's worth the money even if you don't like Ralph Nader.
[22:32.420 --> 22:33.440]  I'll give the phone number.
[22:34.320 --> 22:38.260]  2-1-2-3-5-3-3-1-1-1, if you're interested in that.
[22:38.960 --> 22:40.680]  Friday, October 13th, 8 p.m.
[22:41.480 --> 22:42.540]  Madison Square Garden.
[22:43.020 --> 22:43.200]  Wow.
[22:45.100 --> 22:47.940]  Yeah, okay, continuing with our corporate crime segment here.
[22:48.880 --> 22:49.640]  And careful.
[22:50.160 --> 22:50.760]  Careful what?
[22:50.800 --> 22:52.320]  Are they going to sue me for saying corporate crime now?
[22:52.520 --> 22:53.260]  They're not crimes.
[22:53.580 --> 22:54.380]  They're not crimes.
[22:54.600 --> 22:55.480]  They may not be...
[22:55.480 --> 22:57.040]  You know, I think they are crimes.
[22:57.060 --> 22:58.020]  I think they should be crimes.
[22:58.220 --> 23:00.300]  I mean, how can you justify this kind of behavior?
[23:00.960 --> 23:01.920]  Remember, and this one...
[23:01.920 --> 23:02.900]  I'd like to see you justify this.
[23:02.900 --> 23:08.360]  Remember those black rotary telephones the phone company used to make you rent back in the 1980s because you weren't allowed to buy them?
[23:08.600 --> 23:09.100]  Well, guess what?
[23:09.280 --> 23:14.260]  You may still be renting that phone whether you know it or not, whether it still exists or not, and whether you want to or not.
[23:14.380 --> 23:26.540]  A group of California residents who claim that their phone company has been secretly charging them rent on obsolete rotary telephones that in many cases have been thrown away filed suit on Wednesday against Verizon Communications to get their money back.
[23:26.540 --> 23:37.180]  The lawsuit claims that GTE California, whose parent company, GTE Corp, merged with Bell Atlantic this year to become Verizon Communications, has billed some customers monthly for the phone since 1984.
[23:38.560 --> 23:40.500]  How do you get away with things like this?
[23:40.640 --> 23:47.580]  The suit has four plaintiffs currently, but lawyers say there could be more than 116,000 flim-flam phone users still paying rent.
[23:47.840 --> 23:49.040]  Sounds like a class action.
[23:49.040 --> 23:50.600]  Seeking class action status for the suit.
[23:51.740 --> 23:56.640]  Jonathan Davies, a spokesman for Verizon, confirmed that the company still bills customers for the rotary phones.
[23:57.160 --> 23:58.020]  Yeah, we do it.
[23:58.200 --> 23:58.840]  What do you got to do about it?
[23:58.840 --> 24:01.500]  And they charge them the other side for the touch-tone access as well?
[24:01.500 --> 24:02.420]  I don't even know about that.
[24:02.540 --> 24:03.460]  That's... who knows.
[24:03.560 --> 24:07.680]  A charge that can continue for years, even if the rent on the phone far exceeds the cost of the instrument.
[24:08.220 --> 24:13.540]  Davies said that rent is charged to the customers indefinitely until the rotary phone is returned to Verizon.
[24:16.040 --> 24:18.340]  Yeah, what are they going to do with the phone?
[24:18.340 --> 24:19.000]  I'd like to know that.
[24:19.020 --> 24:19.420]  That's amazing.
[24:19.840 --> 24:24.780]  You just walk down to your local switch, drop the thing in their lap, and say, all right, take it off my bill now.
[24:24.920 --> 24:28.700]  Yeah, you know, if I was one of these people, I would make a visit to my local Verizon office.
[24:28.700 --> 24:29.320]  You just drop the thing off?
[24:29.320 --> 24:30.200]  No, I wouldn't drop it.
[24:30.320 --> 24:30.920]  I'd hurl it.
[24:31.140 --> 24:32.480]  I'd hurl it right at the building.
[24:32.580 --> 24:38.600]  The phone has been landfill for 10 years before Verizon was even a company name thought up by some brilliant...
[24:38.600 --> 24:38.800]  I know.
[24:38.860 --> 24:39.440]  That's pretty funny.
[24:39.440 --> 24:42.340]  They'd have more solid metal phones going through their windows than they could count.
[24:43.080 --> 24:44.920]  Actually, they don't have many windows in the switch, obviously.
[24:44.920 --> 24:45.480]  That's why.
[24:45.720 --> 24:47.700]  Because so many times, things like this happen.
[24:49.640 --> 24:55.100]  Anyway, Davies said he could not comment further on the lawsuit because Verizon does not comment on pending litigation.
[24:56.880 --> 25:07.800]  Dan Stormer, which is a great name for a lawyer, he's a lawyer for the irate customer, said the phone company has continued charging people as if they still had these phones, and they've hidden the cost in something called equipment rental on the bill.
[25:07.900 --> 25:08.980]  It's not like they even say it on the bill.
[25:09.060 --> 25:10.560]  They hide it in there, equipment rental.
[25:11.080 --> 25:16.260]  People have spent thousands of dollars in leasing payments for a $15 phone, and they didn't even know they were paying it.
[25:16.360 --> 25:17.680]  This is absolutely outrageous.
[25:17.680 --> 25:20.120]  Seniors and poor people have been getting milked for years.
[25:20.920 --> 25:22.400]  Stormer, who hopes to ultimately represent...
[25:22.400 --> 25:24.880]  What about the rich people who have been also getting milked for years?
[25:25.300 --> 25:35.500]  He hopes to ultimately represent thousands of California residents in a class-action lawsuit against Verizon, said the case stems from a bygone era when individuals had to lease their telephones from the phone company.
[25:35.780 --> 25:43.060]  In 1984, deregulation ended that era, and phone customers started buying their own phones at a time when touch-tone technology made rotary dialing obsolete.
[25:44.200 --> 25:52.980]  Stormer said GTE California continued to charge its customers $3.40 a month for rent on the old rotary phones, even though those dinosaurs would have only been sold for $15.
[25:53.780 --> 25:58.680]  His client, Jennifer Cundiff, discovered the charge while comparing her phone bill to that of her neighbor.
[25:58.880 --> 26:01.280]  She called Verizon and was told what the charge was for.
[26:01.940 --> 26:02.340]  Wow.
[26:02.500 --> 26:03.260]  It's that easy, you know?
[26:03.300 --> 26:04.360]  They said it outright.
[26:04.640 --> 26:06.380]  Oh, that's for the phone you no longer own.
[26:07.440 --> 26:10.800]  Well, you know, you can find honest employees that will tell you exactly what's going on.
[26:11.160 --> 26:17.680]  Can we have a class-action suit to sue Verizon for the cost of changing their name four times in the last ten years?
[26:17.740 --> 26:18.740]  Yeah, because we have to...
[26:18.740 --> 26:20.660]  Because we have to pay for all that.
[26:21.480 --> 26:21.760]  Yeah.
[26:22.140 --> 26:23.680]  You don't think it comes out of their pocket, do you?
[26:24.020 --> 26:24.840]  New York Telephone.
[26:24.900 --> 26:27.320]  It comes out of Microsoft's pocket, obviously, but...
[26:28.800 --> 26:29.460]  Oh, boy.
[26:31.100 --> 26:36.280]  And, of course, we have the recording industry of America trying to...
[26:36.280 --> 26:40.920]  You know, they want to get royalties now for radio stations that play music over the web?
[26:41.320 --> 26:43.240]  You know, they already get royalties over the air.
[26:43.740 --> 26:44.820]  I thought they did that.
[26:44.960 --> 26:48.540]  I thought they had secured webcasting royalties.
[26:48.820 --> 26:49.220]  No.
[26:49.600 --> 26:50.180]  Oh, really?
[26:50.320 --> 26:50.880]  I don't think so.
[26:51.020 --> 26:54.540]  I think it was all part of one big package deal or whatever.
[26:54.540 --> 26:59.740]  The method of broadcast is now a serious issue in royalty payments?
[26:59.880 --> 27:00.100]  Apparently.
[27:00.280 --> 27:01.080]  But this is the difference.
[27:01.540 --> 27:09.860]  Internet broadcasting royalties apparently will go directly to the record company, which is a copyright holder, rather than the artist via ASCAP BMI.
[27:11.060 --> 27:12.520]  They just slip these little things by.
[27:12.520 --> 27:13.180]  Oh, isn't that huge?
[27:13.180 --> 27:13.720]  Isn't that nice?
[27:14.740 --> 27:15.940]  Ah, yeah.
[27:16.680 --> 27:17.560]  How do they just...
[27:17.560 --> 27:18.040]  No, never mind.
[27:18.280 --> 27:18.720]  Who knows?
[27:18.760 --> 27:19.160]  I'm just bothered.
[27:19.400 --> 27:21.100]  Anybody catch the debate on Sunday?
[27:22.360 --> 27:23.920]  The Hillary Lazio debate?
[27:24.020 --> 27:25.840]  See, everyone uses her first name, his last name.
[27:25.900 --> 27:26.420]  Why is that?
[27:26.620 --> 27:29.020]  Because she doesn't deserve the respect of using her last name.
[27:29.100 --> 27:30.920]  She doesn't deserve the respect of using her last name?
[27:30.960 --> 27:31.440]  Quite frankly.
[27:31.680 --> 27:32.740]  I don't even know what it is.
[27:32.900 --> 27:35.500]  There's another more famous person with that last name.
[27:35.680 --> 27:36.460]  Well, that's true, too.
[27:36.580 --> 27:38.060]  But still, you know, I don't know.
[27:38.280 --> 27:39.700]  Then use his first name, all right?
[27:39.780 --> 27:41.000]  Hillary Lazio is a great name.
[27:41.040 --> 27:42.060]  Well, what about her middle name?
[27:42.340 --> 27:42.700]  Rodman.
[27:43.520 --> 27:44.380]  You can do that, too.
[27:44.520 --> 27:44.820]  Rodman.
[27:44.980 --> 27:45.640]  Sorry, not Rodman.
[27:46.040 --> 27:47.740]  What's his first name?
[27:47.860 --> 27:48.940]  I can't keep track of it.
[27:49.760 --> 27:50.040]  Rick.
[27:50.200 --> 27:50.440]  Rick.
[27:50.440 --> 27:51.180]  Rick, okay.
[27:51.400 --> 27:55.320]  He was your representative for the longest time.
[27:55.360 --> 27:57.720]  And the fact that I don't know that tells me how good a representative he was.
[27:57.920 --> 27:58.080]  Okay.
[27:58.860 --> 28:03.340]  This is a man who cleaned up the sound and did all that great stuff that they said he did on the commercials.
[28:03.540 --> 28:05.520]  Cleaned up the sound of any, like, life, yeah.
[28:06.720 --> 28:08.540]  But anyway, let's not stick on that.
[28:08.760 --> 28:13.900]  The point is that they both made asses of themselves when they... Do you know what they fell for?
[28:14.020 --> 28:16.760]  I think the moderator made more of an ass of herself for this.
[28:16.860 --> 28:17.140]  All right.
[28:17.180 --> 28:18.680]  It was a day of making asses.
[28:18.680 --> 28:21.780]  But Bill 602P, does that ring a bell?
[28:22.140 --> 28:25.700]  The non-existent email attacks from the U.S.
[28:25.740 --> 28:26.200]  Postal Service.
[28:27.380 --> 28:27.740]  Yeah.
[28:28.000 --> 28:29.440]  Internet mail will be taxed.
[28:29.500 --> 28:30.580]  This goes around occasionally.
[28:30.580 --> 28:32.040]  I see it, like, every couple of days.
[28:32.200 --> 28:35.380]  And, of course, you have to spend a lot of time telling people that this doesn't really exist.
[28:35.480 --> 28:37.420]  Well, the moderator... Well, not yet.
[28:38.440 --> 28:38.900]  That's right.
[28:38.980 --> 28:42.420]  Well, it's not going to be called 602P in any event because that's not how they number the bills.
[28:42.700 --> 28:44.080]  Yeah, HR 602.
[28:44.220 --> 28:44.620]  It makes sense.
[28:44.620 --> 28:49.720]  Uh, the moderator apparently fell for this and asked the candidates for their views, and they both denounced it.
[28:50.300 --> 28:50.980]  Good for them.
[28:51.080 --> 28:52.200]  Not knowing anything about it.
[28:52.260 --> 28:53.160]  This bill does not exist.
[28:53.320 --> 28:54.040]  Never has existed.
[28:54.220 --> 28:55.920]  It's one of the most persistent internet hoaxes.
[28:55.980 --> 28:58.020]  It's been widely denounced as such for a very long time.
[28:58.740 --> 29:06.340]  Unfortunately, it appears that the questions at the debate, which was telecast live, over... all throughout the nation, uh, were not properly checked.
[29:06.680 --> 29:07.300]  No kidding.
[29:07.720 --> 29:08.500]  You know, the U.S.
[29:08.580 --> 29:13.360]  Postal Service came out, like, two years ago with this big campaign saying, this doesn't exist.
[29:13.500 --> 29:14.420]  How could they not have known this?
[29:14.420 --> 29:15.020]  We don't want to do this.
[29:15.540 --> 29:16.620]  How could they not have known this?
[29:17.300 --> 29:17.700]  Unbelievable.
[29:20.160 --> 29:22.020]  All right, uh, take some phone calls.
[29:22.080 --> 29:23.380]  212-209-2900.
[29:23.620 --> 29:24.420]  Another piece of news.
[29:24.620 --> 29:25.080]  What's that?
[29:25.320 --> 29:28.300]  Yesterday, uh, CERT finally instituted their new program.
[29:28.740 --> 29:30.220]  Uh, CERT, the Computer Emergency Response Team.
[29:30.220 --> 29:31.580]  Oh, is this the 45-day thing?
[29:31.620 --> 29:32.740]  The 45-day thing.
[29:33.020 --> 29:42.120]  Where previously, if they didn't have a patch, or the vendor couldn't supply some kind of a fix for the vulnerability as it was reported to CERT, they wouldn't make mention of it at all.
[29:42.200 --> 29:52.760]  Now they've, now they're really buckling down, and they're giving the vendors 45 days, that's a month and a half, to come up with a brand new fix, or patch, or, or something like that.
[29:53.040 --> 29:53.200]  Yeah.
[29:53.440 --> 29:56.420]  And if they don't do that, well, CERT's gonna make their announcement.
[29:56.600 --> 30:02.280]  And we all know the wonderful schedule that CERT keeps with its, uh, uh, notification.
[30:02.860 --> 30:04.900]  And we all know the value of 45-day wares.
[30:05.180 --> 30:05.460]  45, yeah.
[30:05.560 --> 30:06.420]  I mean, come on already.
[30:06.620 --> 30:07.480]  This is ridiculous.
[30:07.860 --> 30:09.840]  So, yeah, CERT will still be the last one to know.
[30:09.960 --> 30:11.020]  It's a step in the right direction.
[30:12.280 --> 30:13.060]  I'll give them that much.
[30:13.080 --> 30:14.120]  It's a step in the right direction.
[30:14.280 --> 30:18.740]  Well, they gotta take at least 45 more steps before they get anywhere near sanity, you know.
[30:20.180 --> 30:24.160]  Anyway, um, let's see what else is going on here.
[30:24.160 --> 30:28.700]  Um, oh, on the Verizon topic, anybody, uh, check out the premiere of West Wing.
[30:29.360 --> 30:31.720]  Season opener of West Wing TV show.
[30:31.900 --> 30:32.300]  Missed it.
[30:32.740 --> 30:34.540]  Uh, there's a flashback to three years ago.
[30:34.660 --> 30:36.960]  One of the characters is in New York City using a payphone.
[30:37.480 --> 30:39.240]  The payphone is very neatly labeled Verizon.
[30:39.440 --> 30:41.700]  We all know Verizon didn't even exist a year ago.
[30:41.900 --> 30:43.680]  And, you know, there's no payphone I've ever seen.
[30:43.820 --> 30:44.640]  It says Verizon on it.
[30:44.640 --> 30:45.140]  Oh, I have.
[30:45.640 --> 30:45.920]  Where?
[30:45.940 --> 30:47.680]  There's one up by, uh, CityCorp, in fact.
[30:47.820 --> 30:49.480]  It doesn't just have an ad for Verizon on it.
[30:49.540 --> 30:49.940]  No, no, no.
[30:50.140 --> 30:51.400]  It's actually got the little flag.
[30:51.400 --> 30:52.000]  It's black.
[30:52.000 --> 30:52.980]  It's got white lettering.
[30:53.060 --> 30:55.240]  And, like, uh, I can't remember if it's the V or the Z that's red.
[30:55.400 --> 30:56.800]  And it's on the top of the phone.
[30:56.960 --> 30:57.060]  Yeah.
[30:57.120 --> 30:58.160]  It replaces the Bell Atlantic flag.
[30:58.160 --> 31:00.360]  The Bell Atlantic flag or, like, the blue phone.
[31:00.780 --> 31:01.060]  Really?
[31:01.060 --> 31:01.360]  Okay.
[31:01.560 --> 31:03.040]  I'd like to check that out, then.
[31:04.000 --> 31:04.900]  It's up there somewhere.
[31:05.780 --> 31:06.160]  Okay.
[31:06.800 --> 31:07.720]  What else we got here?
[31:07.860 --> 31:16.380]  Over 30 federal marshals and local police raided the home of Springfield, Illinois resident and micro-radio pioneer, Robana Cantaco.
[31:16.720 --> 31:26.140]  The officers seized the broadcasting equipment and computer of human rights radio, temporarily shutting down the 13-year-old founding and flagship station of the international micro-power radio movement.
[31:26.440 --> 31:30.860]  Robana, who was blind, was home at the time with his wife, their two daughters, and two grandchildren.
[31:31.060 --> 31:34.360]  A real threat to broadcasting industry.
[31:34.460 --> 31:35.780]  Probably broadcast at about 10 once.
[31:35.780 --> 31:38.100]  I'm surprised that they did that with so few officers.
[31:39.020 --> 31:39.160]  Yeah.
[31:40.980 --> 31:41.800]  That's really dangerous.
[31:41.820 --> 31:42.480]  30 federal marshals.
[31:42.640 --> 31:44.980]  Well, you know, they all wanted to see the radio station.
[31:45.000 --> 31:46.460]  That's dangerous on the marshals' part.
[31:46.500 --> 31:47.940]  You never can tell.
[31:48.160 --> 31:50.280]  He recorded the raid, and it's on the web.
[31:50.480 --> 31:50.960]  He did?
[31:51.100 --> 31:51.260]  Yeah.
[31:51.500 --> 31:52.120]  That's kind of cool.
[31:52.240 --> 31:52.600]  Oh, that's neat.
[31:53.240 --> 31:54.020]  That's kind of cool.
[31:56.000 --> 31:58.040]  So which agency did they actually yell out?
[31:58.140 --> 31:59.420]  Because you mentioned the marshals.
[31:59.640 --> 32:00.400]  Who else was in there?
[32:00.400 --> 32:03.200]  You know, they draw straws for...
[32:03.200 --> 32:08.260]  It says here over 30 federal marshals, but I imagine they probably had FCC people, FBI people, and who knows?
[32:08.380 --> 32:09.940]  Everybody wants to get in on the fun.
[32:09.940 --> 32:11.420]  Metcalfony of agency announcements.
[32:11.720 --> 32:11.800]  Yeah.
[32:13.080 --> 32:14.220]  Some listener mail here.
[32:14.880 --> 32:18.900]  Oh, by the way, speaking of listeners, you shouldn't listen...
[32:18.900 --> 32:22.740]  Well, you should listen next week, but just don't listen to us because we won't be here next week as a fundraiser.
[32:22.920 --> 32:25.900]  We'll be back in two weeks for a three-hour fundraiser starting at 7.
[32:26.100 --> 32:26.460]  Cool.
[32:26.660 --> 32:27.720]  I believe it's starting at 7.
[32:27.800 --> 32:31.200]  It might start at 8, but check the website for further details.
[32:31.200 --> 32:33.920]  But just keep your, you know, dial glued to the AI.
[32:33.920 --> 32:35.040]  Should I bring the coffee this time?
[32:35.960 --> 32:36.280]  Whatever.
[32:36.580 --> 32:36.760]  Okay.
[32:36.820 --> 32:37.060]  Whatever.
[32:38.940 --> 32:39.560]  You're off the hook.
[32:39.640 --> 32:43.700]  You read a letter signed by someone called X-A-K-E-P, but couldn't pronounce it.
[32:43.720 --> 32:44.740]  I got so many letters about this.
[32:44.880 --> 32:46.300]  In the Cyrillic Russian alphabet...
[32:46.300 --> 32:47.720]  People expect me to know Cyrillic, all right?
[32:47.720 --> 32:48.480]  I don't know Cyrillic.
[32:48.560 --> 32:48.880]  I'm sorry.
[32:48.960 --> 32:50.000]  I just didn't have time to learn that.
[32:50.520 --> 32:51.520]  It's pronounced Hacker.
[32:52.220 --> 32:57.420]  The X is pronounced H, and the P is pronounced R, and I think you can fill in the rest.
[32:57.600 --> 33:02.600]  And it's a magazine called Zak Kep out of Russia.
[33:03.440 --> 33:03.880]  All right, fine.
[33:03.880 --> 33:04.880]  He said it's pronounced Hacker.
[33:06.400 --> 33:06.940]  Zak Kep.
[33:07.000 --> 33:09.020]  Whatever, but I didn't know that.
[33:09.100 --> 33:09.580]  Now I know it.
[33:10.180 --> 33:12.720]  Although, you know, I probably wouldn't know it again if I saw the word.
[33:14.380 --> 33:14.700]  Anyway.
[33:14.900 --> 33:15.500]  You learn something new every day.
[33:16.200 --> 33:16.900]  Yeah, yeah, you do.
[33:17.040 --> 33:17.700]  You don't forget something.
[33:17.940 --> 33:18.600]  People think you should know this.
[33:19.300 --> 33:23.860]  I do share your pain when dealing with Verizon.
[33:24.060 --> 33:26.360]  You asked whether it was a deliberate action or due to extreme incompetence.
[33:26.420 --> 33:32.020]  Let me tell you that it must have been incompetence, referring to the five-day T1 outage that 2600 suffered.
[33:32.800 --> 33:35.780]  I've been trying to set up a DSL account with these people for over a month now.
[33:36.060 --> 33:36.700]  A month.
[33:36.840 --> 33:37.580]  It took me six months.
[33:37.980 --> 33:39.720]  I registered and paid on the 3rd of December.
[33:39.840 --> 33:45.300]  They told me that my DSL modem would be sent out, and I would receive it within two to three weeks, which I did.
[33:45.820 --> 33:49.300]  The service date for connecting my modem to their DSL was set for September 26th.
[33:50.140 --> 33:51.820]  You don't connect a modem to a DSL.
[33:51.980 --> 33:53.180]  It's just one of my pet peeves.
[33:53.180 --> 33:55.760]  I dealt without internet for about a month.
[33:55.880 --> 33:56.740]  Too long of a time.
[33:57.320 --> 34:01.280]  When the 26 rolled around, I set up my modem, plugged everything in, and began installing the software.
[34:02.260 --> 34:06.080]  As could have been guessed, my DSL could not connect with the Verizon server.
[34:06.200 --> 34:08.500]  I called the 800 number, waited on hold for about 40 minutes.
[34:08.820 --> 34:10.400]  Finally, a man answers, and I explain my dilemma.
[34:10.500 --> 34:11.980]  He puts me on hold again for another 10 minutes.
[34:12.620 --> 34:16.080]  When he comes back, he tells me there was a problem with my phone line, that it can't handle the bandwidth.
[34:16.420 --> 34:19.480]  He says it should be fixed in a day or two, and to leave my modem on.
[34:19.480 --> 34:20.860]  Three days roll by, still nothing.
[34:21.280 --> 34:23.880]  I call back again to be put on hold for one solid hour.
[34:24.440 --> 34:27.560]  The guy this time tells me that they're still trying to fix it and just be patient.
[34:27.700 --> 34:31.700]  I wait two more days, hopefully not on hold, and call back.
[34:31.700 --> 34:34.900]  This time, the man says there is and never was anything wrong with my phone line.
[34:34.900 --> 34:41.960]  It seems something was wrong with my account, and to call the logistics department, I call them and was put on hold for only about 10 minutes before I spoke to a real person.
[34:42.220 --> 34:44.360]  She told me that I would have to get a new service date.
[34:44.460 --> 34:45.860]  They would call me back within the week.
[34:46.280 --> 34:46.960]  They never did.
[34:47.460 --> 34:48.600]  I call him back again.
[34:48.700 --> 34:51.180]  The nice man tells me that he knows what's going down.
[34:51.320 --> 34:55.000]  He makes progress and says that he is getting a phone call that will explain everything in about 30 minutes.
[34:55.360 --> 34:57.620]  He assures me he will call me back as soon as he gets the call.
[34:58.840 --> 34:59.840]  Never hear from him again.
[34:59.840 --> 35:03.260]  One hour, seven hours later, their office is closed, and you guessed it, no phone call.
[35:03.320 --> 35:08.000]  I call back on Tuesday, giving him Monday to call me back just in case he hadn't gotten his call yet.
[35:08.400 --> 35:10.640]  The phone is now busy, and it's today.
[35:10.740 --> 35:11.500]  I can't get a hold of him.
[35:12.200 --> 35:16.240]  I call the 800 number again and waited on hold for 44 minutes, 18 seconds.
[35:17.260 --> 35:20.920]  The idiot on the other end says that if logistics talk to me last, that I should call them.
[35:21.180 --> 35:23.060]  I, for the third time, explain that I cannot reach them.
[35:23.100 --> 35:24.880]  He tells me that they are open, and he reached them before.
[35:28.020 --> 35:28.660]  You get the idea.
[35:28.660 --> 35:29.260]  And it goes on.
[35:29.980 --> 35:44.560]  I had a Verizon tech support thing where their switch was down, and I don't know what they've been doing in my CO with, like, first the switch goes down, and then the next top on the route goes down, and then the switch goes down, and then the authentication goes down.
[35:44.720 --> 35:50.680]  So I call them, and I say, okay, look, just tell me when you're going to fix your computers so I can get back on the Internet.
[35:50.680 --> 35:54.400]  And they're like, okay, go to your start menu.
[35:55.080 --> 36:03.140]  And I said, look, do I have to change the folder Bell Atlantic DSL to Verizon DSL?
[36:03.240 --> 36:03.880]  Would that fix it?
[36:07.580 --> 36:08.380]  Oh, jeez.
[36:08.740 --> 36:11.220]  We live in really hard times, I think.
[36:11.460 --> 36:12.300]  All right, let's take some phone calls.
[36:12.360 --> 36:13.680]  212-209-2900.
[36:14.160 --> 36:14.880]  And good evening.
[36:14.920 --> 36:15.520]  You're on the air.
[36:15.880 --> 36:16.780]  Oh, hi.
[36:16.980 --> 36:17.240]  How you doing?
[36:17.520 --> 36:17.920]  Okay.
[36:18.220 --> 36:20.380]  Let me turn the radio down so I don't give you horrible feedback.
[36:20.380 --> 36:20.880]  Good idea.
[36:22.980 --> 36:23.540]  Done.
[36:23.800 --> 36:29.040]  Okay, this is Daniel C., and I just wanted to let you all know that I've been using Quest.
[36:29.280 --> 36:35.300]  So they're a real company, and I've been using them for one line for quite some time.
[36:35.620 --> 36:48.100]  And recently they eliminated their excessive charge for, you know, the minimum usage and also for the FCC line charge.
[36:48.140 --> 36:49.780]  They don't really charge that anymore.
[36:49.780 --> 37:02.200]  They have like a prorated, what do they call it, where is it, the TRS, Universal Service Fund, is now, you know, a percentage of the charges as opposed to like a flat, you know, $2 or $4 fee.
[37:02.380 --> 37:02.580]  Okay.
[37:02.580 --> 37:08.040]  So, like, I mean, I don't make very many long-distance calls, so my monthly bill was only like $1.19, which is great.
[37:08.360 --> 37:08.580]  Cool.
[37:08.660 --> 37:09.260]  That's not bad.
[37:09.640 --> 37:10.440]  No, exactly.
[37:10.500 --> 37:15.400]  And basically, they have an even better program than the one you were just looking at.
[37:15.560 --> 37:15.940]  Okay.
[37:15.940 --> 37:25.260]  In that, if you get to their site through a particular link, which I just threw up on our website, so people can get to it, it's $0.05 a minute.
[37:25.500 --> 37:26.520]  There is no minimum.
[37:27.520 --> 37:29.460]  And I didn't see any...
[37:30.660 --> 37:31.980]  There was no monthly fee, what I meant.
[37:32.060 --> 37:33.840]  And then I didn't see any minimum that was mentioned.
[37:34.060 --> 37:35.240]  I'd like to know what this plan is about.
[37:35.660 --> 37:41.240]  You're saying you have a $0.05 a minute plan with the same company with no minimum, and that's a 24-hour rate.
[37:41.540 --> 37:41.900]  Yeah.
[37:41.900 --> 37:42.840]  Anybody can get it?
[37:43.680 --> 37:45.240]  Yeah, if you go through the right link.
[37:45.560 --> 37:45.880]  Okay.
[37:46.680 --> 37:49.020]  Well, I'd like to know what that link is.
[37:49.120 --> 37:49.920]  It's hidden in the source.
[37:49.920 --> 37:52.680]  I'll just let me edit it, so once I give it out, it'll be correct.
[37:52.940 --> 37:53.180]  Uh-huh.
[37:53.320 --> 37:54.280]  Bear with me one second.
[37:54.560 --> 37:54.880]  All right.
[37:55.160 --> 37:56.600]  Is this the one where they don't bill you?
[37:57.040 --> 37:58.660]  They just, like, charge your credit card?
[37:58.700 --> 37:59.640]  That'd be nice, wouldn't it?
[37:59.840 --> 38:01.620]  No, no, they just charge your credit card.
[38:01.680 --> 38:02.100]  Oh, yeah, exactly.
[38:02.100 --> 38:03.960]  And if you want, you can look it up on the web.
[38:04.040 --> 38:04.720]  It's online billing.
[38:04.720 --> 38:06.560]  Ah, they don't send you a bill.
[38:06.760 --> 38:08.440]  Okay, that can be a real hassle, you know.
[38:08.580 --> 38:09.340]  Well, you know.
[38:09.460 --> 38:10.700]  I got that once, all right?
[38:10.700 --> 38:12.840]  And I forgot the password they assigned me.
[38:12.880 --> 38:13.200]  Ooh.
[38:13.460 --> 38:14.600]  And then I switched phone companies.
[38:14.700 --> 38:19.360]  But, you know, every month I still get a piece of email saying my bill is ready for me to look at, even though I don't have them anymore.
[38:19.360 --> 38:22.120]  So I'm wondering, where are they charging this to, and what are they charging me for?
[38:23.040 --> 38:23.920]  Who is that for?
[38:24.020 --> 38:25.140]  Uh, that's AT&T, actually.
[38:25.460 --> 38:25.840]  Oh, yeah.
[38:25.940 --> 38:28.220]  Oh, was that you're being charged for, like, the non-usage thing?
[38:28.220 --> 38:29.420]  No, that was a different...
[38:29.420 --> 38:29.880]  Oh, okay.
[38:29.880 --> 38:31.320]  That was a different phone number with AT&T.
[38:31.440 --> 38:33.220]  And that seems to have gone away, which is good.
[38:33.320 --> 38:33.640]  Yay!
[38:34.420 --> 38:35.160]  Have you found it yet?
[38:35.360 --> 38:36.200]  Here's that link for you.
[38:36.260 --> 38:36.480]  All right.
[38:36.480 --> 38:43.540]  Uh, www.analysisandsolutions.com.
[38:43.820 --> 38:51.020]  That's all one word, analysisandsolutions.com, uh, slash quest, which is Q-U...
[38:51.020 --> 38:52.960]  I'm sorry, Q-W-E-S-T.
[38:53.320 --> 38:53.720]  Okay.
[38:53.900 --> 38:54.700]  Dot H-T-M.
[38:55.640 --> 38:55.960]  All right.
[38:56.160 --> 38:59.620]  So, uh, our listeners will go out and investigate that and see if you're right about this.
[38:59.660 --> 39:07.820]  Yeah, I mean, I have had them on one account for a while, and they just started this eFurl program, and so I signed up for it on my personal line.
[39:07.940 --> 39:16.900]  I haven't gotten a bill from that for the first month, but I've been using them on my other line and had a different plan where it was nine cents a minute, you know, flat rate, and, you know, it's been fine.
[39:17.380 --> 39:18.960]  But this is five cents a minute, right?
[39:19.020 --> 39:26.700]  This is a whole new plan of theirs, five cents a minute, no fee if you're doing the online billing, and, uh, pay by credit card.
[39:27.160 --> 39:30.880]  And, you know, it didn't mention anywhere in the documents that there's a minimum usage charge.
[39:31.020 --> 39:31.400]  Right, but...
[39:31.400 --> 39:34.000]  So, I mean, there could be hidden somewhere that I didn't see, but I didn't see it.
[39:34.000 --> 39:36.480]  Okay, but, uh, there's no way you can get a paper bill.
[39:36.980 --> 39:40.340]  You know, you can get a paper bill, I believe, but then it's gonna cost you more.
[39:40.760 --> 39:42.180]  Okay, so you wind up paying more for that.
[39:42.460 --> 39:43.960]  Yeah, I think it's like $4.95 a month.
[39:44.220 --> 39:44.920]  Probably worth it.
[39:45.380 --> 39:51.280]  You know, I mean, at five cents a minute, $4.95 a month, if you make, you know, a significant amount of calls, and you really want the paper bill, you can get the paper bill.
[39:51.440 --> 39:53.680]  They charge you five bucks to send you a piece of paper in the mail?
[39:54.260 --> 39:55.940]  And to have you pay them by check.
[39:56.540 --> 40:03.500]  You see, the disadvantage with this is that you have no record of your phone bill in the past, you know, unless you save all this to disk somehow.
[40:03.500 --> 40:05.420]  Yeah, well, I mean, are you gonna save it to disk?
[40:05.520 --> 40:06.840]  Are you gonna save it to a piece of paper?
[40:06.840 --> 40:08.480]  Yeah, I guess you could print it to yourself.
[40:08.760 --> 40:10.840]  That's not admissible in a lawsuit or anything like that.
[40:10.880 --> 40:11.300]  I don't know.
[40:12.060 --> 40:13.720]  Yeah, I've got this HTML code here.
[40:13.820 --> 40:16.200]  It says that I paid $700,000.
[40:16.700 --> 40:18.360]  Well, I'd like to know what people think about that.
[40:18.460 --> 40:23.040]  I mean, I have several different accounts where I do e-billing, and it's fine with me.
[40:23.120 --> 40:25.820]  I mean, because, like, what do I need to get a stupid piece of paper for?
[40:25.960 --> 40:28.720]  And, you know, why do I want to waste time writing checks to people?
[40:29.160 --> 40:30.880]  You know, I mean, so to me, I think it's great.
[40:30.880 --> 40:35.000]  Yeah, the only thing is, when you need to check something from six months ago, how easy will it be?
[40:35.100 --> 40:36.840]  Or even something from five years ago.
[40:37.020 --> 40:37.160]  Right.
[40:37.440 --> 40:41.520]  You know, and how do you know that it really is what it was when you looked at it the first time?
[40:41.940 --> 40:44.360]  You know, little pieces of paper can't change by themselves.
[40:45.060 --> 40:46.720]  You know, but webpages can.
[40:47.260 --> 40:47.660]  Yeah.
[40:48.340 --> 40:51.660]  All right, thanks for the info, and we're gonna move on.
[40:51.820 --> 40:52.240]  Good evening.
[40:52.380 --> 40:52.940]  You're on the air.
[40:53.420 --> 40:54.160]  Hey there, Emmanuel.
[40:54.400 --> 40:55.120]  It's Tommy Pickles.
[40:55.180 --> 40:55.480]  How you doing?
[40:55.480 --> 41:00.200]  In regards to Isaac and everyone else in the studio, tipping my hat right now.
[41:00.340 --> 41:00.820]  How you doing, sir?
[41:01.280 --> 41:02.500]  DSL Horrors, of course.
[41:02.760 --> 41:03.700]  Horrors in New York.
[41:03.880 --> 41:07.040]  Everyone tries to compete with us, saying that they have worse horrors than we do.
[41:07.500 --> 41:08.560]  I don't think so.
[41:08.660 --> 41:09.500]  Three war buildings.
[41:09.640 --> 41:10.540]  That's all I have to say.
[41:12.060 --> 41:15.120]  Red came to my building about five times.
[41:15.500 --> 41:16.900]  I haven't heard that name in a while.
[41:17.300 --> 41:17.840]  Yeah, I know.
[41:17.940 --> 41:18.940]  Well, they're still around.
[41:19.600 --> 41:22.840]  Unlike Quest, who's laying off 11,000 employees in 16 months.
[41:22.960 --> 41:24.320]  Who knows what's gonna happen with them?
[41:24.320 --> 41:24.780]  Ouch.
[41:25.900 --> 41:29.320]  And then, I went through PSN, who's through North Point.
[41:29.440 --> 41:32.400]  You heard this thing, that they do STSL instead of ADSL?
[41:32.580 --> 41:32.800]  Mm-hmm.
[41:32.980 --> 41:35.060]  Because North Point only runs STSL.
[41:35.600 --> 41:38.140]  Well, they charge you ADSL, which is kind of sweet.
[41:38.320 --> 41:42.360]  But still, Beltlander comes into the building, goes downstairs in the building, and goes, you don't have a riser.
[41:42.540 --> 41:44.880]  And they go, you gotta call us to get a riser installed.
[41:45.240 --> 41:46.120]  And then they leave.
[41:47.280 --> 41:48.000]  Oh, thanks.
[41:48.180 --> 41:48.600]  Oh, okay.
[41:48.780 --> 41:51.540]  And so, it's been a year and a half, I think, without DSL now.
[41:52.420 --> 41:52.780]  So.
[41:53.420 --> 41:54.680]  Oh, that could be a record.
[41:54.860 --> 41:56.820]  Yeah, I'm gonna wait for cable modems.
[41:58.120 --> 42:02.280]  Or wait, if hell freezes over, will they have the DSL lines?
[42:02.500 --> 42:03.660]  That's all I care about.
[42:03.920 --> 42:06.340]  You know, because then I'll go down there where it's colder than New York.
[42:06.480 --> 42:08.080]  Yeah, but all your packets will just drop.
[42:08.580 --> 42:10.160]  And you have a distance issue.
[42:10.220 --> 42:12.100]  They have a really crazy firewall in hell.
[42:12.100 --> 42:20.520]  So, I saw you both on Friday, and Isaac, I didn't get to say adios to you, but Emmanuel, you were running around with the cell phone, so.
[42:20.680 --> 42:21.200]  Yeah, yeah.
[42:21.240 --> 42:28.620]  Hopefully, we'll all gather down at the first Friday of the month downtown, or down in the south there.
[42:28.780 --> 42:29.960]  Yeah, hopefully I can work that out.
[42:30.140 --> 42:30.880]  I'll see you about that.
[42:30.900 --> 42:32.300]  Okay, we're looking forward to it.
[42:32.440 --> 42:32.700]  All right.
[42:32.900 --> 42:33.940]  Thanks for calling.
[42:34.120 --> 42:34.500]  Yeah, okay.
[42:34.500 --> 42:35.340]  I'll talk to you later.
[42:36.060 --> 42:37.480]  212-209-2900.
[42:37.580 --> 42:37.720]  Good evening.
[42:38.080 --> 42:38.560]  Firewall in hell.
[42:38.720 --> 42:39.280]  You're on the air.
[42:39.980 --> 42:40.460]  Hey.
[42:40.840 --> 42:41.280]  What's up?
[42:42.100 --> 42:53.780]  This is I, Pete, and following the theme of supposed corporate criminals, I've been having a fairly hard time with Bell South.
[42:54.040 --> 42:54.860]  Are you familiar with them?
[42:55.020 --> 42:55.780]  I've heard of them, yes.
[42:57.100 --> 43:00.940]  Well, supposedly in our area, we've been waiting about a year for DSL.
[43:00.940 --> 43:14.180]  Uh, so, about six months ago, I ordered a package for ADSL, and so they said that in two weeks, you'll have your starter kit, and you'll be set up and everything.
[43:14.420 --> 43:15.560]  There'll be no problems.
[43:15.860 --> 43:16.980]  We wait three weeks.
[43:17.120 --> 43:20.280]  We call them back, and, uh, guess what?
[43:20.840 --> 43:26.620]  Uh, they say that there's some sort of problem with our line, and that it'll be another month.
[43:27.280 --> 43:42.280]  So, we wait a couple weeks, we call them back, my dad gives them a hell of a time, and I find out that, actually, outside of my house, I have what a friend of mine has, um, has said supposedly is an OC-128.
[43:42.900 --> 43:43.340]  What?
[43:43.720 --> 43:44.160]  Uh-huh.
[43:44.400 --> 44:00.800]  Which is really weird, because we had a third line installed here in our little community, well, we were gonna have a third line installed at our house, but, uh, well, when, uh, the installation was done, or almost done, uh, my father canceled the line.
[44:01.380 --> 44:15.340]  So, like, they finished it up, and they stopped it, and basically, there's like a fiber optics box in front of my house, and my friend, uh, Wiretap, um, he took a look at it, and he said it looked like an OC-128, which, uh, no one can believe.
[44:15.540 --> 44:16.260]  And he's...
[44:16.260 --> 44:16.800]  Including us.
[44:16.800 --> 44:17.820]  Yeah, that's...
[44:17.820 --> 44:28.320]  I know, or something like that, but, and so, basically, there are fiber optics in front of my house, uh, not hooked up, but they're still there, and they still say that we have to wait a couple months more.
[44:28.660 --> 44:32.300]  So we wait, and wait, and wait, because they say, in October, it'll be done, right?
[44:33.520 --> 44:39.840]  So, it's October now, we call them back, they say it's gonna be, like, another month and a half, because they're building a new CO.
[44:40.220 --> 44:41.460]  They're building a new CO?
[44:41.740 --> 44:48.840]  Or switch, or, or whatever it is, there's like a, uh, they're, like, building a new build, building by, uh, Winn-Dixie Neras or something.
[44:49.120 --> 44:49.420]  Uh-huh.
[44:49.660 --> 44:54.640]  So, uh, right now, cable is unidirectional.
[44:54.920 --> 45:05.280]  Uh, it's been unidirectional in our area for a long time, but they just installed a whole bunch of new switches and stuff around the area or something, and so now it's bidirectional.
[45:05.280 --> 45:09.960]  So, we don't know whether to get, to stay with DSL or go to cable.
[45:11.280 --> 45:11.640]  Hmm.
[45:12.440 --> 45:13.760]  I don't know what to say, really.
[45:14.080 --> 45:19.100]  It's, um, I've never had the cable option myself, so I, I can't attest as to how, how good that would be.
[45:19.340 --> 45:22.420]  But if it's available to you, I mean, you might as well, you know, give it a shot.
[45:25.240 --> 45:36.600]  Also, I had a question, um, do you know whether, um, like, Bell South or any of the companies actually give out, uh, the, um, the external modems for DSL anymore?
[45:37.020 --> 45:43.400]  Because I've heard that they only give out the internal modems now, because people getting, like, uh, DSL routers and stuff.
[45:43.580 --> 45:45.380]  Well, Isaac has an issue with the word modem.
[45:45.460 --> 45:46.380]  They're not modems!
[45:46.460 --> 45:46.720]  All right.
[45:47.140 --> 45:48.540]  What, what word should he use?
[45:49.420 --> 45:50.220]  I don't know.
[45:50.520 --> 45:50.840]  Bridge.
[45:51.120 --> 45:53.400]  Bridge, terminal adapter, something like that.
[45:53.560 --> 45:53.760]  Okay.
[45:54.440 --> 45:55.800]  It's just a pet peeve of mine.
[45:55.840 --> 45:56.180]  I'm sorry.
[45:56.360 --> 45:57.620]  It's DSL interface, then.
[45:57.740 --> 45:58.140]  Okay, that was awesome.
[45:58.140 --> 45:59.240]  Do you know the answer to the question?
[45:59.480 --> 46:00.760]  Do I know the answer to the question?
[46:01.060 --> 46:11.580]  It doesn't surprise me that they're now distributing these internal slot devices, because what they used to have to do was actually give you an Ethernet card and a small patch cable to plug into the stupid adapter.
[46:11.580 --> 46:13.500]  But he wants to know if they still give out the external ones.
[46:13.500 --> 46:14.000]  I have no idea.
[46:14.160 --> 46:25.360]  I, I mean, I got DSL from Verizon, uh, earlier, like, six months ago, and they gave me, uh, an external Ethernet bridge, and, uh, which I had to pay 90 bucks for.
[46:25.480 --> 46:26.080]  Now it's free.
[46:27.000 --> 46:28.480]  Oh, you're one of the lucky ones, then.
[46:29.040 --> 46:30.060]  All right, thanks for that phone call.
[46:30.060 --> 46:31.680]  212-209-2900.
[46:31.900 --> 46:32.240]  Good evening.
[46:32.420 --> 46:32.980]  You're on the air.
[46:33.480 --> 46:33.880]  Uh, hello.
[46:34.100 --> 46:35.220]  I'm going to turn down my radio.
[46:35.420 --> 46:35.560]  Okay.
[46:36.300 --> 46:36.920]  Hello, Isaac.
[46:37.080 --> 46:37.580]  Hello, Emmanuel.
[46:37.700 --> 46:38.440]  Hello, everyone else.
[46:38.560 --> 46:38.860]  How you doing?
[46:39.060 --> 46:48.100]  I heard an interesting rumor about a de facto phone company in, uh, California, in the San Diego, San Francisco area.
[46:48.100 --> 46:50.300]  And I'm not sure of the name.
[46:50.460 --> 47:05.500]  I've heard, I have some conflicting stories, but apparently it was founded by some ex-phone freaks, and, uh, you can choose a charity or some kind of charity of your choice to devote part of your bill to.
[47:06.040 --> 47:06.740]  That's kind of nice.
[47:06.800 --> 47:07.680]  Is this working assets?
[47:07.840 --> 47:08.680]  Sounds like working assets.
[47:09.620 --> 47:10.960]  I, I have, I think...
[47:10.960 --> 47:12.220]  Are they on the West Coast someplace?
[47:12.420 --> 47:12.660]  Yes.
[47:12.860 --> 47:20.520]  Okay, and, uh, they probably use the Sprint network to, uh, to route phone calls, and, and they, they have, like, I think it's, it's either Visa or MasterCard they use for credit cards.
[47:20.600 --> 47:22.360]  Oh, well, my esteem for them just dropped.
[47:22.820 --> 47:23.360]  Why's that?
[47:23.580 --> 47:24.560]  Well, Sprint network.
[47:24.560 --> 47:26.640]  Oh, well, they have to use somebody, you know.
[47:27.580 --> 47:30.780]  I think back when they, when they started doing it, Sprint was a little cooler, too.
[47:31.220 --> 47:31.380]  Yeah.
[47:32.320 --> 47:33.100]  But, uh...
[47:33.100 --> 47:34.560]  They give you free ice cream, I think.
[47:34.640 --> 47:35.600]  They give you free ice cream?
[47:36.000 --> 47:36.820]  I think so.
[47:36.960 --> 47:37.860]  Who, Sprint or...
[47:37.860 --> 47:38.700]  No, working assets.
[47:38.940 --> 47:39.560]  Yeah, I don't think Sprint would do that.
[47:39.660 --> 47:41.820]  My, uh, my esteem for them went up.
[47:42.260 --> 47:42.520]  Uh-huh.
[47:42.760 --> 47:44.380]  Free ice cream is a positive thing.
[47:44.520 --> 47:44.660]  Okay.
[47:44.780 --> 47:45.920]  Any more news or rumors or anything?
[47:46.760 --> 47:50.440]  Um, I have, there's some more echelon news.
[47:50.620 --> 47:50.880]  Okay.
[47:51.100 --> 47:51.480]  What do you got?
[47:51.680 --> 47:54.000]  Um, more mainstream media.
[47:54.000 --> 47:55.520]  Media is talking about echelon.
[47:56.380 --> 47:58.120]  And, uh, apparently...
[47:58.120 --> 48:03.000]  Oh, yes, and FBI's carnivore system, the...
[48:03.000 --> 48:03.900]  Carniv...
[48:03.900 --> 48:04.960]  Well, yes.
[48:05.200 --> 48:06.660]  It's also crypto news.
[48:07.880 --> 48:15.680]  Um, carnivore, I believe, I heard a rumor that can defeat SSL, and it cannot defeat PGP.
[48:17.040 --> 48:17.980]  Something like that.
[48:18.060 --> 48:19.240]  Did you hear anything about that, Isaac?
[48:19.560 --> 48:20.020]  Nope.
[48:20.420 --> 48:20.620]  Nope?
[48:20.960 --> 48:21.380]  Nope.
[48:21.860 --> 48:23.260]  Do I have the sheet here?
[48:23.260 --> 48:31.000]  No, but it is pretty frightening, considering the mail I currently use is SSL 128-bit, which I don't like.
[48:31.180 --> 48:40.280]  Well, I, I doubt that the, when you say defeat, do you mean actually breaks open the encryption and reads the stuff plain text, or is it capable of doing traffic analysis?
[48:40.540 --> 48:42.000]  I think it can do traffic analysis.
[48:42.040 --> 48:43.780]  Well, that's fairly obvious, but yeah, okay.
[48:43.980 --> 48:45.620]  I mean, I thought Carnivore is just a passive listener.
[48:46.200 --> 48:48.160]  It's a key, yeah, it's a key logger.
[48:48.400 --> 48:48.800]  Mm-hmm.
[48:49.200 --> 48:55.120]  And, um, but I'm pretty sure it has some kind of horrible little thing like that in it.
[48:56.760 --> 49:02.880]  Okay, well, I'm sure we'll hear more as, uh, as the weeks go by, but, uh, that's something to keep our eyes open for her.
[49:03.040 --> 49:03.420]  All right.
[49:03.620 --> 49:04.020]  Thanks for the call.
[49:04.280 --> 49:04.600]  No problem.
[49:04.760 --> 49:04.820]  Bye.
[49:05.480 --> 49:06.600]  212-209-2900.
[49:06.680 --> 49:06.940]  Good evening.
[49:07.020 --> 49:07.440]  You're on the air.
[49:09.760 --> 49:10.120]  Speak up.
[49:10.440 --> 49:10.900]  Yes, go ahead.
[49:10.900 --> 49:15.580]  Yes, uh, I'd like to raise a serious question here, uh, actually a serious issue.
[49:15.780 --> 49:22.540]  Um, I went into a Staples store on 42nd Street and was interested in purchasing a wireless telephone.
[49:23.400 --> 49:38.520]  And, um, I picked out the phone, I picked out the package, and I presented my credit card, and they told me that in order to make the purchase, they needed my social security number, my driver's license ID, and my birth date.
[49:38.520 --> 49:41.300]  And I said, well, just, that's ridiculous.
[49:41.580 --> 49:42.520]  Yeah, tell them to jump off a cliff.
[49:42.740 --> 49:44.480]  I said, like, that's, you know...
[49:44.480 --> 49:45.260]  And how are you paying?
[49:45.520 --> 49:46.560]  I was, with a credit card.
[49:46.680 --> 49:47.260]  I mean, that's how they...
[49:47.260 --> 49:49.480]  They're not allowed to even ask you to show them ID.
[49:49.660 --> 49:53.660]  Unless your signature has worn off your credit card, they cannot ask you for any ID.
[49:53.880 --> 50:01.860]  Well, I was actually refused the service, and, and so I've done some investigating, and I went online to, like, their online store, and they have the same thing.
[50:01.980 --> 50:04.680]  And you cannot get the purchase without giving that information.
[50:04.940 --> 50:05.760]  Well, they're breaking the law.
[50:05.900 --> 50:06.920]  Was this a cell phone?
[50:06.920 --> 50:11.600]  This is a, it was a, yeah, a wireless, you know, one of those Nokia type things.
[50:11.780 --> 50:13.740]  Well, then they may need to do a credit check.
[50:13.920 --> 50:19.160]  Yeah, but, but that, you know, the credit, that's, that's implicit in the fact that you own the credit card.
[50:19.300 --> 50:20.160]  I mean, I...
[50:20.160 --> 50:21.060]  Well, hang on one second.
[50:21.220 --> 50:24.340]  Were you getting service from the phone company through, through them?
[50:24.420 --> 50:25.380]  Is that, is that what you were doing?
[50:25.380 --> 50:27.080]  No, I mean, it's like VoiceStream.
[50:27.280 --> 50:29.620]  So, I, you know, that's the company, VoiceStream.
[50:29.900 --> 50:33.420]  So, they give you a monthly package, and you buy the phone, they give you a monthly package.
[50:33.420 --> 50:33.840]  Yeah.
[50:34.000 --> 50:37.880]  Well, what they do... Okay, what VoiceStream does is they do a credit check on you.
[50:37.980 --> 50:39.540]  It's not Staples doing a credit check.
[50:39.560 --> 50:39.840]  No, no.
[50:39.940 --> 50:42.040]  This is like through a VoiceStream representative.
[50:42.260 --> 50:44.100]  So, I mean, this is just... Basically, it's VoiceStream.
[50:44.540 --> 50:47.460]  They have like a concession in the Staples store.
[50:47.600 --> 50:50.080]  I mean, there's other VoiceStream outlets.
[50:50.540 --> 50:51.700]  But here's the thing.
[50:52.100 --> 50:57.400]  I bought like $6,000 worth of gateway computers without... Here's my credit card and thank you very much.
[50:57.400 --> 51:01.100]  Right, but you're getting monthly service from these people and they're very edgy about that.
[51:01.800 --> 51:04.200]  You know, you might, you know, call Guam and leave the phone off the hook.
[51:04.820 --> 51:08.020]  Actually, I think Guam is in the United States calling area.
[51:08.420 --> 51:15.020]  But the thing is that if it's through a credit card, you know, I actually called American Express and did some investigation.
[51:15.020 --> 51:24.400]  They said, well, the bottom line is that, you know, no matter, you know, if it's a valid card, American Express is responsible for paying them.
[51:24.700 --> 51:26.100]  You know, that's the bottom...
[51:26.100 --> 51:28.380]  You know, it's like, forget the consumer.
[51:28.660 --> 51:30.620]  It's like, you know, they get it from the company.
[51:30.740 --> 51:31.820]  They get it from American Express.
[51:32.080 --> 51:37.480]  So, even if I, you know, renege, you know, they get their money from American Express.
[51:37.800 --> 51:40.520]  Yeah, but unfortunately, Sprint PCS works the same way.
[51:40.680 --> 51:48.680]  What you can do, but it winds up, you wind up paying more, is get a, you know, a pay-first program where there is no credit check.
[51:48.680 --> 51:50.700]  And then they charge you considerably more.
[51:50.840 --> 51:53.940]  And unfortunately, people that don't have good credit wind up falling into that trap.
[51:54.080 --> 51:56.220]  And always the people who can't afford it wind up paying more.
[51:56.300 --> 51:58.620]  You can also leave them a $125 deposit.
[51:59.240 --> 52:01.860]  Okay, again, that's something that's hard for people to do.
[52:01.980 --> 52:06.620]  But I don't know if, I don't know if that works with, with the, with the Sprint PCS and VoiceStream.
[52:06.720 --> 52:07.640]  I know that works with Bell Atlantic.
[52:07.740 --> 52:08.320]  It works with Sprint.
[52:08.680 --> 52:09.700]  I know someone who's done it.
[52:09.840 --> 52:10.020]  Really?
[52:10.060 --> 52:11.520]  And they get the same type of treatment?
[52:11.840 --> 52:14.180]  Yeah, they, you basically have a, a standard account.
[52:14.180 --> 52:20.740]  You, they have the $125 on deposit and it's after like six months or a year that they credit the $125 to your account.
[52:20.940 --> 52:23.740]  Okay, what happens if you go over $125 on your bill?
[52:23.860 --> 52:24.300]  You lose.
[52:24.580 --> 52:25.660]  Yeah, I think that's what happens.
[52:25.760 --> 52:26.360]  I think it gets shut off.
[52:26.360 --> 52:26.700]  That's the wall.
[52:26.980 --> 52:28.420]  Yeah, they'll, they'll shut you off for that.
[52:28.580 --> 52:30.300]  Okay, so you're not really getting real service.
[52:30.740 --> 52:31.500]  Well, you are.
[52:32.320 --> 52:34.140]  $125 and, you know, come on.
[52:34.320 --> 52:36.540]  Yeah, but that's not hard to do on these companies.
[52:36.700 --> 52:37.120]  It really isn't.
[52:37.240 --> 52:53.800]  Well, back, back at Carnivore, the, the latest interesting thing I heard of was, uh, uh, new technology out of a, a, uh, I can't remember the name of the company, it bothers me now, 4, F-O-R-E, who was, uh, partnering with the NSA to develop a, an OC-12 firewall,
[52:54.380 --> 53:05.320]  which is actually pretty spiffy because the device looks in an ATM cell, picks out all the IP headers, drops out stuff without having to unpack it and repack it, which is like a big deal.
[53:05.440 --> 53:10.560]  It uses, uh, field programmable, uh, field programmable gate arrays and all this nifty stuff.
[53:10.660 --> 53:11.160]  It's pretty cool.
[53:11.160 --> 53:11.580]  Uh-huh.
[53:11.620 --> 53:12.320]  And it's, it's coming.
[53:12.500 --> 53:18.500]  So if you have $15,000, you can firewall your OC-12 without having to, uh, to knock down the bandwidth.
[53:18.700 --> 53:21.860]  Oh, this guy should run over to his neighbor's house and, uh, Yeah, and it's, it's, NSA.
[53:22.340 --> 53:22.720]  Well, and it's...
[53:22.720 --> 53:23.880]  You read your mail so you don't have to.
[53:23.980 --> 53:24.300]  Well, exactly.
[53:24.460 --> 53:25.500]  Well, it's NSA technology.
[53:25.500 --> 53:36.060]  They gave it to this company who's been, like, a long-term contractor for them, and they, uh, the company developed it and then sold it back to NSA out of some, like, weird corporatization program, who knows what.
[53:36.180 --> 53:42.100]  But you can, you can pick one up for yourself, which will, of course, have the interesting little back doors that NSA puts into things.
[53:42.380 --> 53:42.860]  Or has been ruined.
[53:42.940 --> 53:49.160]  Oh, speaking of crypto, um, uh, Whitfield Diffie and Martin Hellman today won the Marconi Award.
[53:49.400 --> 53:49.780]  Yay!
[53:49.960 --> 53:56.700]  From, uh, from, that was presented at Columbia University for the furtherance of communication between humankind.
[53:57.040 --> 53:57.740]  Bravo, guys.
[53:57.820 --> 53:58.420]  I heard about that.
[53:58.480 --> 53:59.300]  I didn't know they actually won.
[53:59.340 --> 54:02.560]  Yeah, that was, well, they were, yeah, they presented the fellowship today.
[54:02.680 --> 54:03.160]  I didn't hear about it.
[54:03.260 --> 54:03.420]  Cool.
[54:03.660 --> 54:04.480]  Late-breaking news here.
[54:04.480 --> 54:05.120]  Bravo, guys.
[54:05.220 --> 54:05.380]  Bravo.
[54:05.380 --> 54:06.920]  All right, let's go to our next phone call.
[54:07.260 --> 54:08.440]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[54:09.880 --> 54:12.100]  Hi, I didn't expect to get on so soon.
[54:12.280 --> 54:17.300]  Um, I just wanted to leave a query out for anyone who might have this information.
[54:17.640 --> 54:29.720]  There was once called, a company called Facts for Free, that used to allow people to do, um, free faxes over the internet, and they were extremely high caliber.
[54:29.980 --> 54:40.780]  They're no longer doing it, and I would appreciate if anyone listening would be aware of another free service that allows you to, uh, send free faxes over the internet.
[54:41.080 --> 54:47.840]  And the second query I had is, could you, um, explain to me what exactly frame relay is?
[54:47.960 --> 54:49.440]  And I'll just take your answer off the air.
[54:49.580 --> 54:49.860]  Thank you.
[54:49.860 --> 54:50.440]  Hmm.
[54:51.000 --> 54:52.880]  I don't know if I can do that, uh, logically.
[54:53.300 --> 54:53.940]  You got eFacts.
[54:54.580 --> 54:54.960]  No.
[54:55.060 --> 54:56.340]  I'm in the frame relay for it.
[54:56.720 --> 54:57.440]  They receive?
[54:57.780 --> 54:58.060]  Yeah.
[54:58.680 --> 55:02.960]  TPC.int does it, but they're kind of not okay, but you do get to type the .int.
[55:03.660 --> 55:04.160]  That's kind of cool.
[55:04.260 --> 55:04.820]  That's pretty cool.
[55:05.020 --> 55:05.460]  That's kind of cool.
[55:05.500 --> 55:06.140]  Frame relay, anybody?
[55:07.260 --> 55:12.600]  Uh, basically, you make one network appear as though it were on the other side.
[55:12.600 --> 55:17.960]  Uh, for instance, uh, you could have your own little happy ethernet network at office A.
[55:18.720 --> 55:29.980]  Over a frame relay circuit, you wind up passing all the traffic, uh, regardless of it being IP or IPX or any kind of those weird higher level network protocols, uh, to the other network at office site B.
[55:30.100 --> 55:34.080]  So they appear to be on the same, uh, the same sort of segment.
[55:34.220 --> 55:35.580]  It gets, it's a lot more involved than that.
[55:35.580 --> 55:36.240]  Yeah, I would imagine.
[55:36.460 --> 55:36.640]  Yeah.
[55:36.980 --> 55:39.200]  In fact, I'm not even very happy with that explanation.
[55:39.420 --> 55:39.820]  Clouds.
[55:39.980 --> 55:40.400]  Good evening.
[55:40.480 --> 55:40.960]  You're on the air.
[55:41.380 --> 55:41.740]  Hello?
[55:42.000 --> 55:42.800]  Let me put this lower.
[55:43.380 --> 55:43.740]  Okay.
[55:45.520 --> 55:46.140]  Hi, guys.
[55:46.340 --> 55:46.760]  What's up?
[55:46.880 --> 55:48.040]  I'm calling with information.
[55:48.460 --> 55:48.740]  All right.
[55:48.800 --> 55:50.820]  Um, I'll try and run through it real quick.
[55:50.980 --> 55:58.760]  The first thing is, is that, uh, I think it was Newsweek, I was reading in the dentist's office today, was doing an expose on the, uh, cell phone radiation.
[55:59.300 --> 55:59.440]  Yeah.
[55:59.580 --> 56:05.220]  And they were talking about, uh, I just want to give the number of the phone on the market now that has the least, uh, radiation.
[56:05.840 --> 56:07.540]  It's Motorola StarTAC.
[56:07.680 --> 56:07.940]  Mm-hmm.
[56:08.220 --> 56:09.620]  Number 7860.
[56:10.340 --> 56:14.580]  And it's 0.24 is the, uh, lowest on the market now.
[56:14.800 --> 56:15.660]  0.24 what?
[56:16.140 --> 56:17.220]  Uh, let's see.
[56:17.320 --> 56:23.320]  If I could understand it, watts per kilogram that, um, affects one gram of body weight.
[56:23.320 --> 56:28.720]  It's the S-R, S-A-R rate, Specific Absorption Rate.
[56:28.880 --> 56:29.100]  Yes.
[56:29.300 --> 56:31.420]  I wish I had the website that had all of these.
[56:31.580 --> 56:32.000]  Oh, you have it?
[56:32.000 --> 56:49.580]  www.sardata, S-A-R-D-A-T-A dot com, then you go slash, then you write Sardata dot, I think it's H-T-M I wrote down here.
[56:49.740 --> 56:49.940]  Okay.
[56:50.440 --> 56:51.420]  Okay, so that's one thing.
[56:51.480 --> 56:52.820]  And it has all different phones in it?
[56:53.040 --> 56:53.520]  Uh, yeah.
[56:53.680 --> 56:54.620]  It's going to rate all of them.
[56:54.620 --> 57:01.480]  What's interesting is that the older phones, the older, uh, cellular phones, the analog ones, actually have less radiation than the newer ones.
[57:01.540 --> 57:03.280]  And the reason for that is because of the frequency difference.
[57:03.660 --> 57:05.020]  Lower frequency, less radiation.
[57:05.280 --> 57:06.680]  Well, it's also analog versus digital.
[57:06.940 --> 57:09.500]  I mean, the waves are sharper.
[57:09.840 --> 57:09.920]  Yeah.
[57:10.080 --> 57:12.220]  I mean, it's, it's kind of intriguing.
[57:12.440 --> 57:13.120]  Okay, what else do you have?
[57:13.140 --> 57:22.560]  It's the same thing with the mobile phones going from, um, you know, the, the ones at the house where you, where you just, you know, the radio waves, it's 900 hertz going up to what, the gigahertz now?
[57:22.800 --> 57:22.880]  Yeah.
[57:22.880 --> 57:25.760]  You know, that's increasing the, uh, radiation you're getting also.
[57:26.380 --> 57:26.640]  Next.
[57:27.220 --> 57:33.280]  Working assets, uh, I actually had working assets for a number of years and I just stopped with them.
[57:33.460 --> 57:36.200]  I got really fat from the Ben and Jerry's.
[57:37.120 --> 57:46.700]  You know, I, I wasn't eating ice cream for many years and the first year they said, okay, every month you get this, you know, $3.50 coupon and you go to the store once a month.
[57:46.800 --> 57:49.040]  But no, it wasn't just once a month.
[57:49.260 --> 57:51.080]  Ben and Jerry's made a lot of money on me.
[57:51.080 --> 58:05.260]  And I finally, the only way I could wean myself off of it, because I conned them into a second year, uh, the, was just to stop, but actually the reason why I stopped working assets was because they are charging 25 cents a minute.
[58:05.260 --> 58:12.640]  If you don't have, if you don't pay a fee per month, per month, like $4.95 or $5.95, it's, it's 25 cents a minute.
[58:12.860 --> 58:17.100]  And I really felt that, because I also have the working assets credit card.
[58:17.280 --> 58:22.180]  And I really felt that for me, I wanted to just get a rate.
[58:22.300 --> 58:27.660]  I didn't want to have to pay that because sometimes I don't use it that much and I'm going to pay, you know, money for nothing.
[58:34.200 --> 58:35.000]  Mm-hmm.
[58:35.000 --> 58:38.680]  And they say, you know, maybe, maybe if we do this, you'll come back.
[58:38.680 --> 58:41.120]  And they want to give me another year of Ben and Jerry's.
[58:41.800 --> 58:43.980]  In fact, they just sent one in the mail for the hell of it.
[58:44.140 --> 58:48.500]  Well, you know, tell them you're not interested in ice cream so much as, uh, you know, a low rate on your, on your phone bill.
[58:48.660 --> 58:50.280]  Well, that's what I told them.
[58:50.380 --> 58:52.480]  And, you know, we'll, we'll have a negotiation.
[58:52.660 --> 58:52.920]  Yeah.
[58:52.920 --> 58:56.840]  Because I do like the fact that at the end of the year, now it's millions of dollars in the fund.
[58:56.940 --> 58:58.400]  When I started, it was under a million.
[58:58.920 --> 59:04.540]  What they do is they take a percentage and then they let you vote on 36 different non-profits.
[59:04.840 --> 59:07.100]  Non-profits are pretty, uh, progressive.
[59:07.540 --> 59:07.760]  Mm-hmm.
[59:07.760 --> 59:14.400]  So if you want to get involved and you want to hear more, and I found that they were somewhat amenable to negotiation.
[59:16.840 --> 59:20.060]  800-808-6398.
[59:21.060 --> 59:28.000]  And for the credit card is 800-537-3777.
[59:28.540 --> 59:31.360]  Now, the only thing you have to know is that you're not going to get...
[59:31.360 --> 59:31.860]  Hello?
[59:32.140 --> 59:33.400]  Yes, we're out of time.
[59:33.440 --> 59:34.040]  Okay, I'll try and do this quick.
[59:34.160 --> 59:43.560]  And then the last thing is I get five cents a minute, uh, as long as I'm willing to dial 10-10-636, then one, the area code and the number.
[59:43.700 --> 59:45.000]  So it's 10-10-636.
[59:45.360 --> 59:46.880]  I've been getting five cents a minute.
[59:46.880 --> 59:53.980]  I just use now Verizon at 10 cents a minute as a default, but five cents a minute as long as you're willing to talk for three minutes.
[59:54.220 --> 59:54.600]  Cool.
[59:54.600 --> 59:56.840]  And it gets billed on my bill at home.
[59:57.020 --> 59:58.900]  I get my Verizon bill at the end.
[59:59.040 --> 01:00:00.360]  It's a clear choice communications.
[01:00:00.620 --> 01:00:00.880]  Uh-huh.
[01:00:00.880 --> 01:00:07.480]  And if you want to talk to these people, it's 1-800-589-4480.
[01:00:08.180 --> 01:00:13.080]  I find in a lot of ways they've been more responsive than Verizon, and they often pick up the phone a little quicker.
[01:00:13.300 --> 01:00:13.520]  Okay.
[01:00:13.700 --> 01:00:14.680]  Thanks for all that information.
[01:00:14.680 --> 01:00:16.340]  That's, uh, certainly a lot for us to investigate.
[01:00:16.600 --> 01:00:17.620]  Rocky Road telephony.
[01:00:17.780 --> 01:00:18.840]  You gotta be careful of minimums, though.
[01:00:18.900 --> 01:00:22.820]  Three-minute minimum, you know, that's, uh, they make 15 cents in a call that only lasts a second.
[01:00:22.980 --> 01:00:23.940]  But you get a pint of ice cream.
[01:00:24.100 --> 01:00:24.480]  I hate Cobra.
[01:00:24.800 --> 01:00:25.720]  No, that's a different one.
[01:00:25.820 --> 01:00:26.260]  That's a different one?
[01:00:26.360 --> 01:00:26.580]  Yeah.
[01:00:26.960 --> 01:00:27.600]  We're out of time.
[01:00:27.740 --> 01:00:28.620]  We won't be back next week.
[01:00:28.700 --> 01:00:30.400]  We'll be back the week after that with a marathon show.
[01:00:30.660 --> 01:00:31.360]  So, uh, tune in.
[01:00:31.440 --> 01:00:32.040]  I think it's at 7.
[01:00:32.320 --> 01:00:33.200]  And, uh, we'll see you then.
[01:00:33.280 --> 01:00:33.460]  Good night.
[01:01:12.150 --> 01:01:14.950]  Good night.
[01:01:18.590 --> 01:01:19.230]  10 p.m.