[00:00.000 --> 00:09.020]  A combination of paid and unpaid staff and a committed group of phone volunteers all combine their efforts to make this drive a success.
[00:09.460 --> 00:15.480]  Let us continue to make history by having all of you who've pledged honor your pledges.
[00:15.640 --> 00:20.560]  You can do that by mailing in your contributions as soon as you get your bill.
[00:20.960 --> 00:24.120]  Once again, thank you for your support.
[00:29.460 --> 00:33.600]  And you stumbled upon WBAI New York where it's 8 o'clock on a Tuesday night.
[00:33.840 --> 00:35.160]  That means it's time for...
[00:35.760 --> 00:36.780]  Oh, fuck.
[00:41.410 --> 00:46.010]  A telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:46.810 --> 00:51.530]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[00:52.570 --> 00:54.250]  I couldn't yet my brain.
[01:00.600 --> 01:03.340]  I hope that's understood, but I'm doing it now.
[01:14.620 --> 01:18.560]  I'm your golden eye of God.
[01:35.020 --> 01:36.460]  And we have very little time tonight.
[01:36.640 --> 01:42.320]  Well, actually, we have the same amount of time that we always have, but we just have so many things to talk about that we're going to try and jump right into it.
[01:43.000 --> 01:46.600]  We have a full cast of characters tonight and even more people joining us later.
[01:47.420 --> 01:48.100]  Isaac is here.
[01:48.280 --> 01:48.940]  Hi, I'm back.
[01:49.040 --> 01:49.700]  Back from Las Vegas.
[01:49.800 --> 01:50.460]  Laszlo is here.
[01:50.720 --> 01:51.660]  Back from Las Vegas.
[01:51.820 --> 01:52.040]  Back from Las Vegas.
[01:52.100 --> 01:54.800]  Now, the two of you were in the same city at the same time and you didn't even know it, huh?
[01:54.800 --> 01:57.160]  Well, there's about a quarter million people in that town.
[01:57.340 --> 01:59.640]  See, I'm in New York and I always know Isaac's here.
[02:00.180 --> 02:00.880]  How do you do it?
[02:00.960 --> 02:03.260]  I mean, basically, you go to Las Vegas and just...
[02:03.260 --> 02:05.200]  I did feel a disturbance in the force.
[02:06.460 --> 02:07.860]  So, what were you guys doing out there?
[02:08.220 --> 02:12.300]  Well, it was Comdex, the largest computer convention on the planet, I believe.
[02:12.560 --> 02:16.340]  Yes, not the Consumer Electronics Expo, which I misidentified.
[02:16.780 --> 02:19.420]  Someone came over and yelled at me after I said that on the phone.
[02:19.960 --> 02:21.520]  What were they listening to you for, anyway?
[02:21.620 --> 02:22.280]  I have no idea.
[02:22.280 --> 02:22.940]  A sense of privacy over there?
[02:23.000 --> 02:23.720]  I have no idea.
[02:24.020 --> 02:30.300]  Okay, well, since we are kind of rushed tonight, very quickly, tell us your impressions of you first, Isaac, then you Laszlo.
[02:30.300 --> 02:30.760]  Oh, me first?
[02:31.260 --> 02:32.500]  Maybe an anecdote or something.
[02:32.640 --> 02:33.600]  It was what I expected.
[02:34.100 --> 02:35.760]  80% snake oil sales.
[02:35.900 --> 02:42.380]  Of the 10 remaining, of the 10 in the remainder, the people were too stupid to realize what they had.
[02:42.800 --> 02:51.200]  Five of that remainder would be people who actually managed to have something that would be worthwhile, but would not sell in the market as I see it at the moment.
[02:51.440 --> 02:56.720]  And the last five, like, maybe had a really good idea or a really good product that could go somewhere.
[02:57.620 --> 03:11.540]  There was a lot of biometric stuff there that was fairly good to see, although there was only so many ways you can do a thumb scanner, and a lot of these people really had no idea of the real security involved in it.
[03:12.820 --> 03:15.720]  And there was a Linux expo, which I'm not even going to get into.
[03:16.940 --> 03:19.020]  Okay, it's probably best for everybody concerned that you don't.
[03:19.060 --> 03:20.400]  Yeah, I'll avoid that.
[03:20.980 --> 03:22.060]  Did you have a press pass?
[03:22.420 --> 03:23.580]  I had a press pass.
[03:23.580 --> 03:27.840]  I had a press pass, and this year, for the first year, I wore a 2600 hat.
[03:28.060 --> 03:28.920]  Oh, that was a mistake.
[03:29.100 --> 03:35.980]  And I got more hassle from people walking up to me and saying, are you a 2600?
[03:36.060 --> 03:37.740]  Are you covering this convention for 2600?
[03:37.860 --> 03:38.580]  I say, no, Renee.
[03:38.580 --> 03:39.240]  Wait a minute, wait a minute.
[03:39.320 --> 03:40.400]  I just got to stop you right there.
[03:40.640 --> 03:41.820]  Isaac, you had a press pass.
[03:41.980 --> 03:43.160]  I had a press pass.
[03:43.240 --> 03:43.560]  For who?
[03:43.900 --> 03:44.640]  For this show.
[03:45.520 --> 03:46.300]  For this show?
[03:46.360 --> 03:47.560]  Did you get harassed at all?
[03:47.560 --> 03:48.540]  I did not get harassed.
[03:49.600 --> 03:53.240]  I basically said, you know, at some point on Tuesday, I'm going to have to use a phone.
[03:53.300 --> 03:54.360]  Do you have the facilities available?
[03:54.660 --> 03:55.840]  They said, why?
[03:56.000 --> 03:57.220]  Well, I do a show in New York.
[03:57.520 --> 03:58.260]  They say, oh.
[03:58.560 --> 03:59.820]  And they handed me a press pass.
[04:00.000 --> 04:01.380]  Did it say WBAI on it?
[04:01.580 --> 04:02.120]  Pacifica Radio?
[04:02.240 --> 04:03.200]  The station that Kevin calls?
[04:03.340 --> 04:06.980]  It said, off the hook, the station that Kevin calls?
[04:07.080 --> 04:07.700]  That Clinton calls.
[04:07.720 --> 04:08.560]  Oh, that Clinton calls.
[04:08.680 --> 04:09.260]  No, no, no.
[04:09.480 --> 04:10.220]  That didn't happen.
[04:10.460 --> 04:11.940]  But they basically just took my back.
[04:11.940 --> 04:15.220]  Well, if they knew what WBAI was, you'd be harassed just as much as Laszlo was, I'll bet.
[04:15.220 --> 04:16.880]  Well, I wasn't exactly wearing the hat.
[04:17.080 --> 04:19.480]  I learned my lesson a long time ago with that.
[04:19.640 --> 04:23.700]  Yeah, well, I was at this press event, and this guy comes up to me and says, are you at 2,600?
[04:23.740 --> 04:25.520]  And I was like, no.
[04:25.780 --> 04:27.560]  And he said, I don't like those guys.
[04:27.800 --> 04:32.280]  And I said, well, you know, I know some of those guys, you know.
[04:32.660 --> 04:33.880]  That's the accent he had?
[04:34.620 --> 04:35.460]  Well, sort of.
[04:35.560 --> 04:36.200]  Oh, there's all kinds of that.
[04:36.200 --> 04:41.520]  And I said, you know, that's a good voice against, like, you know, corporate control of information and all that.
[04:41.580 --> 04:46.240]  And he says, yeah, but that magazine shows people how to commit crimes.
[04:47.340 --> 04:54.420]  And so I said, well, it talks a lot about how technology works and, you know, information should be a crime.
[04:54.520 --> 04:59.360]  And, you know, I brought up the whole MPAA thing and people having control over, you know.
[04:59.500 --> 05:00.440]  Oh, he didn't want to hear any of that.
[05:00.480 --> 05:00.820]  Oh, no.
[05:00.880 --> 05:04.100]  He said, like, why can't people have control over their, you know, their works?
[05:04.160 --> 05:04.800]  Their works, right.
[05:04.800 --> 05:14.900]  And so then he goes in, I said, so you're telling me, I said, I know a guy that was put in prison for having a device that makes the sound of a quarter going into the phone.
[05:15.040 --> 05:17.740]  Don't you think that's absolutely insane?
[05:17.740 --> 05:20.700]  And he goes, it's against the law to have lockpicks?
[05:20.940 --> 05:21.740]  What's the difference?
[05:21.960 --> 05:27.460]  And I was like, I don't really know if lockpicks are against the law or we wouldn't have that many locksmiths out there.
[05:27.600 --> 05:34.680]  But so then this conversation progressed and it kept making less and less sense.
[05:34.800 --> 05:39.300]  And then I was like, so what you're saying is information should be a crime.
[05:39.540 --> 05:43.540]  And he's like, if you don't want to go to jail, don't break the law.
[05:43.700 --> 05:46.520]  I love how that's always like the final argument of these people.
[05:46.740 --> 05:48.600]  You know, don't do the time if you can't.
[05:48.820 --> 05:50.440]  Don't do the time if you can't do the time.
[05:50.680 --> 05:52.820]  Everything boils down to prison.
[05:52.960 --> 05:58.180]  Everything boils down to, yeah, well, you're going to be, you know, sent to, you know, you're going to meet Bubba in the prison cell and all.
[05:58.180 --> 06:02.100]  They always just have that simplistic way of looking at things, not the issues, you know.
[06:02.220 --> 06:02.920]  It's a crime.
[06:03.040 --> 06:03.540]  You're a criminal.
[06:03.540 --> 06:04.240]  You must pay.
[06:04.400 --> 06:04.700]  That's it.
[06:04.760 --> 06:05.260]  End of story.
[06:05.480 --> 06:08.280]  And he leans over my face and goes, it works for me.
[06:08.660 --> 06:10.060]  It works for me.
[06:10.060 --> 06:17.480]  And so I'm thinking, you know, this is just another crackpot like Isaac or something that, you know, that snaked his way into a real press event.
[06:17.580 --> 06:21.300]  I look down and it's Hiawatha Bray of the Boston Globe.
[06:23.060 --> 06:24.000]  Oh, my God.
[06:24.320 --> 06:24.600]  Okay.
[06:24.840 --> 06:29.020]  Now, and might I add, during the entire conversation, he was using his bare hands.
[06:29.060 --> 06:29.280]  Wait a minute.
[06:29.340 --> 06:30.820]  He doesn't have that kind of an accent, though.
[06:30.860 --> 06:31.440]  He's from Boston.
[06:32.980 --> 06:35.080]  No, he has kind of like a southern Boston accent.
[06:35.080 --> 06:36.080]  And he's Asian, too.
[06:36.480 --> 06:37.400]  He's southern Boston?
[06:37.400 --> 06:37.440]  No, he's not.
[06:37.660 --> 06:38.280]  Is he Asian?
[06:38.440 --> 06:39.580]  I thought he was African-American.
[06:39.580 --> 06:40.500]  What kind of name is Hiawatha?
[06:41.440 --> 06:41.900]  Well, that's right.
[06:41.900 --> 06:42.740]  He is African-American.
[06:42.820 --> 06:43.000]  You're right.
[06:43.000 --> 06:43.880]  I was thinking of somebody else.
[06:44.100 --> 06:45.340]  Didn't you meet him and look at him?
[06:46.280 --> 06:46.760]  Do what?
[06:46.880 --> 06:47.520]  Well, he would know.
[06:47.660 --> 06:48.520]  He met him recently.
[06:48.580 --> 06:49.360]  I've met him a long time ago.
[06:49.500 --> 06:49.580]  Right.
[06:49.760 --> 06:50.120]  I mean, this was...
[06:50.120 --> 06:50.420]  No, you're right.
[06:50.420 --> 06:51.460]  This was last week.
[06:51.520 --> 07:00.260]  And the entire time during the conversation, he's sticking his hand in this big bowl of shrimp, his hand, instead of using, you know, some kind of device, and just shoving them in his face.
[07:00.440 --> 07:01.100]  Well, that's...
[07:01.100 --> 07:04.520]  Oh, so he's like sputtering on you with various pieces of shrimp at the same time.
[07:04.520 --> 07:05.280]  And I was trying...
[07:05.280 --> 07:14.120]  And so I looked at him, and it was obvious to me that there was no logic to be had in this conversation, so I said, you know what, my friend, if that's your opinion, then enjoy the police state.
[07:14.160 --> 07:18.020]  And I just turned around and walked off, because this is major media.
[07:18.020 --> 07:21.460]  That scares me that someone from major media would have that view.
[07:22.760 --> 07:24.320]  It scares me that media would have a view.
[07:24.540 --> 07:25.180]  Well, he wasn't...
[07:25.180 --> 07:31.280]  Well, of course, they have to have a view, but to have such a rigidly defined view of what's right and what's wrong, that's...
[07:31.280 --> 07:32.560]  He should be a congressman.
[07:32.900 --> 07:33.520]  Yeah, I know.
[07:33.520 --> 07:37.080]  All I'm saying is, wearing this hat in public, the 2600 hat, can get you...
[07:37.080 --> 07:40.200]  Oh, it attracts a good deal of attention, as well as a number of...
[07:40.200 --> 07:44.500]  Well, you probably got a bunch of guys come up to you and, like, put up, you know, like, hey, you guys rule!
[07:44.860 --> 07:49.020]  I had the H2K shirt, and people come in, like, did you go to that convention?
[07:49.300 --> 07:50.320]  I heard that was pretty cool.
[07:51.360 --> 07:51.980]  You get a lot of that, too.
[07:51.980 --> 07:53.860]  I went to Deep Space Nine marathon that weekend.
[07:53.860 --> 07:54.480]  I couldn't go.
[07:55.060 --> 07:57.520]  Well, okay, I've got a better story, okay, because...
[07:58.100 --> 07:58.740]  You didn't go.
[07:58.920 --> 08:00.560]  No, I didn't go to that, but the week before...
[08:00.560 --> 08:09.240]  See, we were preempted on Election Day, and then last week you weren't here, so I didn't get a chance to talk about this, but the week before Election Day, I went down to Nashville.
[08:09.360 --> 08:10.300]  In fact, you went down to Nashville, too.
[08:10.300 --> 08:11.200]  I went down to Nashville, too.
[08:11.220 --> 08:27.540]  And I met a lot of people there at the FreakNet conference, FreakNet 4.0, and I'll tell you, you know, there are a lot of enlightened people that exist in very unenlightened places, and I have to have a lot of credit given to these people just for surviving,
[08:27.660 --> 08:28.160]  for existing.
[08:28.340 --> 08:29.240]  I mean, think about it.
[08:29.240 --> 08:32.880]  You're in the middle... Nashville is the big city to these people, okay?
[08:33.380 --> 08:34.240]  Nashville is the city.
[08:34.360 --> 08:34.960]  Well, it's not small.
[08:35.480 --> 08:37.260]  No, it's not small, but it's also...
[08:37.260 --> 08:39.060]  Come on, it's in Tennessee, for God's sake.
[08:39.160 --> 08:40.020]  It borders on Kentucky.
[08:40.020 --> 08:41.460]  I mean, I don't have to tell you.
[08:42.540 --> 08:43.740]  Listen to the radio down there.
[08:43.800 --> 08:44.700]  I'll get into that in a second.
[08:45.820 --> 08:49.800]  The fact that people can actually exist in a small town where people...
[08:49.800 --> 08:52.000]  And I found this out, and they're not kidding about this.
[08:52.060 --> 08:54.020]  People stand in front of gas stations there.
[08:55.140 --> 08:56.440]  That is what they do.
[08:56.440 --> 08:57.820]  They stand in front...
[08:57.820 --> 08:59.120]  They don't work at the gas stations.
[08:59.240 --> 09:01.780]  They stand in front of gas stations all day long.
[09:02.060 --> 09:02.920]  And that's what...
[09:02.920 --> 09:04.440]  And it's like, yeah, that's what they do.
[09:04.540 --> 09:05.540]  They stand in front of gas stations.
[09:05.860 --> 09:08.060]  Yeah, you know, as if that's something that's not weird.
[09:08.220 --> 09:09.100]  And smoke cigarettes.
[09:09.720 --> 09:11.220]  You're not supposed to smoke in a gas station.
[09:11.260 --> 09:11.960]  It doesn't matter.
[09:12.100 --> 09:12.820]  That's where you hang.
[09:13.020 --> 09:15.320]  Well, the point is, there are people that just stand...
[09:15.320 --> 09:16.700]  And that's their life, okay?
[09:16.900 --> 09:17.940]  And that's part of the culture.
[09:18.320 --> 09:25.720]  Now, for somebody to come out of that and get into computer hacking and exploration and taking apart technology, I think, is a real credit.
[09:26.280 --> 09:34.740]  And I was very happy to find people that were able to get above all the mediocrity and start to excel at something.
[09:35.140 --> 09:36.120]  I met a lot of people there.
[09:36.320 --> 09:37.360]  There were a few morons, too.
[09:37.420 --> 09:38.160]  There's always morons.
[09:38.220 --> 09:38.580]  Oh, of course.
[09:38.720 --> 09:40.380]  You know, a lot of really bright people.
[09:40.380 --> 09:44.940]  And I also, I gotta give credit to the people at Freaknik for putting something together like that.
[09:44.940 --> 09:45.340]  It was free.
[09:45.420 --> 09:46.100]  It didn't cost anything.
[09:46.280 --> 09:48.040]  You know, it wasn't a big rip-off like some of these other things.
[09:48.160 --> 09:48.960]  Well, it was a donation.
[09:49.360 --> 09:50.280]  It was a donation, yeah.
[09:50.440 --> 09:51.000]  It was a good donation.
[09:51.100 --> 09:51.560]  It's just a donation.
[09:51.660 --> 09:51.880]  Yes.
[09:52.140 --> 09:53.840]  I threw in far more than was a good donation.
[09:53.840 --> 09:56.700]  You feel like making a donation to a place like that that's a lot more sincere.
[09:56.760 --> 10:02.840]  And I was thinking, this is a lot more like the old summer cons in St. Louis, you know, many years ago, where only a couple hundred people showed up.
[10:02.920 --> 10:03.940]  But people knew who they were.
[10:04.320 --> 10:07.720]  You know, we kind of conversed and got to know each other better over the weekend.
[10:08.480 --> 10:10.980]  And you really came away from there learning something.
[10:11.620 --> 10:13.380]  And I hope to see more things like that.
[10:13.500 --> 10:16.440]  So, as things like that progress, we'll of course talk about it.
[10:16.440 --> 10:17.280]  Now, what were your impressions?
[10:17.780 --> 10:18.060]  Freaknik?
[10:18.140 --> 10:19.800]  You came down there and you left immediately.
[10:20.240 --> 10:21.160]  Well, you drove.
[10:21.260 --> 10:21.900]  We both drove.
[10:22.080 --> 10:22.220]  Yeah.
[10:22.320 --> 10:23.160]  We drove separately.
[10:23.460 --> 10:24.320]  Well, I drove my car.
[10:24.380 --> 10:25.260]  I think you rented one, didn't you?
[10:25.260 --> 10:25.700]  I rented it.
[10:25.740 --> 10:27.340]  Well, I wasn't going to put that kind of mileage on my car.
[10:27.340 --> 10:28.080]  You drove to Tennessee?
[10:28.380 --> 10:29.340]  Yes, I drove to Tennessee.
[10:29.480 --> 10:31.020]  Dude, they have planes that go there.
[10:31.040 --> 10:31.300]  Yeah, I know.
[10:31.340 --> 10:32.260]  You get there in like an hour.
[10:32.380 --> 10:34.540]  But this was like 16...
[10:34.540 --> 10:35.800]  Well, for me, it was 16 hours.
[10:35.900 --> 10:36.760]  That's because I came from the island.
[10:36.880 --> 10:37.640]  For you, it was like 11 hours.
[10:37.640 --> 10:40.560]  It was like 13, probably.
[10:40.840 --> 10:41.380]  It's a good drive.
[10:41.480 --> 10:45.380]  If I say much less, of course, I'm going to have a summons at my door when I get home.
[10:45.400 --> 10:47.040]  Did you listen to the radio on the way down?
[10:47.600 --> 10:49.180]  There was little else to do.
[10:49.340 --> 10:49.560]  Yeah.
[10:49.780 --> 10:50.580]  What do you think of that?
[10:51.320 --> 10:52.440]  I got a lot of NPR.
[10:52.940 --> 10:54.460]  Well, you know, NPR actually saved my life.
[10:54.460 --> 10:55.980]  All things were considered many times.
[10:56.900 --> 10:58.280]  NPR did save my life in the way.
[10:58.340 --> 11:01.340]  All the bad things I say about NPR, when you're in the Bible Belt...
[11:01.340 --> 11:02.280]  Oh, it's a godsend.
[11:02.360 --> 11:04.420]  NPR is a godsend, no pun intended.
[11:06.640 --> 11:09.280]  And I got to really wonder.
[11:09.420 --> 11:12.220]  You turn on the AM radio, and it's really all the same thing.
[11:12.240 --> 11:13.500]  It's not variety at all.
[11:13.640 --> 11:15.820]  It's basically all right-wing radio.
[11:15.820 --> 11:20.820]  I'd never heard anything left of center when I was, you know, apart from NPR, and that's not AM.
[11:20.820 --> 11:21.520]  Nothing wrong with that.
[11:21.920 --> 11:23.100]  Nothing wrong with no variety?
[11:23.400 --> 11:24.280]  I think there is.
[11:24.400 --> 11:25.120]  No, not at all.
[11:25.240 --> 11:29.700]  Well, I got my fill of country music, which I really can't get up here in New York.
[11:29.760 --> 11:42.580]  Well, you get your country music, you get your western stations, your country and western stations, you get your religion, you get your religious schools, and occasionally you get a college station that hasn't been swallowed up by NPR or the religion.
[11:43.580 --> 11:44.540]  And that's it.
[11:44.680 --> 11:46.080]  And all the radio there was automated.
[11:46.340 --> 11:53.540]  I can't tell you how many times I was listening to a news report, and it got cut off in the middle with a commercial, and they never went back to it.
[11:53.880 --> 12:00.460]  You know, I was in a traffic jam for about two hours, and there were no local stations to report on what the traffic problem was.
[12:00.560 --> 12:01.560]  It was all automated.
[12:01.900 --> 12:04.260]  Just machines playing music and preaching.
[12:04.580 --> 12:06.080]  And it was really kind of sad.
[12:06.200 --> 12:08.960]  I realized the state of radio is not good, especially down there.
[12:08.960 --> 12:09.720]  You know, you were right.
[12:10.440 --> 12:14.280]  During the pledge drive, you said, oh, Clear Channel has 1,500 stations now.
[12:14.420 --> 12:14.900]  You were right.
[12:15.480 --> 12:15.900]  Do they?
[12:16.080 --> 12:16.280]  Yeah.
[12:17.080 --> 12:30.980]  I actually met with some people from that company, and they said the goal, by the year, end of next year, I'm probably letting out some kind of big business secret, but the goal of AMFM Clear Channel is, by the end of next year, to own 2,000 radio stations.
[12:30.980 --> 12:32.000]  What is wrong with these people?
[12:32.200 --> 12:33.340]  Why don't they just take everything?
[12:33.680 --> 12:33.860]  You know?
[12:34.400 --> 12:35.420]  Well, they're working on it.
[12:35.500 --> 12:37.140]  Yeah, they are working on it.
[12:37.140 --> 12:41.260]  Working on... But it's like they're so evil, they don't even see how evil they are.
[12:41.320 --> 12:44.480]  They don't see that, you know, this is bad, what they're doing.
[12:44.620 --> 12:45.680]  They're swallowing up everything.
[12:45.840 --> 12:48.680]  All the competition, all the variety is all the same.
[12:48.840 --> 12:51.900]  They don't... I mean, do you think they can sleep at night with this realization?
[12:52.080 --> 12:53.540]  Or maybe they just don't realize it.
[12:53.540 --> 13:01.180]  Well, they'll eventually recognize that the more stations they buy, the higher their operation costs go, and unfortunately, they're not going to get as many listeners as they once had.
[13:01.620 --> 13:06.360]  So, uh, it won't become... it won't remain economically feasible for them to continue gobbling stations.
[13:06.480 --> 13:08.420]  They'll have all the listeners, though, because there won't be any...
[13:08.420 --> 13:08.480]  They won't.
[13:08.620 --> 13:11.840]  They won't be in any competition for any listeners to listen to anything else.
[13:12.920 --> 13:17.960]  If what you're saying, that all the programming is going to become synonymous, the listeners are going to go away, and they're going to lose money.
[13:19.160 --> 13:19.800]  I don't know.
[13:19.980 --> 13:20.540]  I don't know.
[13:20.780 --> 13:21.600]  It's, uh...
[13:21.600 --> 13:24.640]  I was pretty depressed just driving through there and listening to, uh...
[13:24.640 --> 13:30.740]  I mean, to say they're right-wing really is not the statement I want to make, because you hear right-wing...
[13:30.740 --> 13:31.200]  No, they weren't.
[13:31.340 --> 13:32.400]  You hear right-wing here.
[13:33.060 --> 13:34.260]  This was something else.
[13:34.260 --> 13:37.540]  This was so far to the right that you could barely see them.
[13:37.740 --> 13:54.640]  I mean, I was listening to a radio station on the way back where they were talking about how the communists were teaching evolution in schools, how the theory of evolution has been disproven time and time again, and basically how they want to shove their religion down everyone's throats in the country,
[13:54.840 --> 13:56.040]  and this is perfectly okay.
[13:56.080 --> 13:57.300]  It was like going to Iran.
[13:57.580 --> 14:05.880]  It was like going and listening to the Ayatollah Khomeini, like, preaching about how, you know, these influences are evil and they must be stopped at all costs.
[14:06.000 --> 14:08.740]  I expected to hear, you know, a call for a holy war any second.
[14:08.760 --> 14:12.940]  And I can only imagine now, with all this election crap going on, what they're saying.
[14:13.040 --> 14:17.240]  I mean, for some reason, every time something like this happens, I get all this right-wing email.
[14:17.240 --> 14:17.880]  I don't know why.
[14:17.980 --> 14:19.020]  It just gets forwarded to me.
[14:19.020 --> 14:30.440]  And there are people talking about getting an army together now and taking the White House by force because the leftist insurgents, and Al Gore is the leftist insurgent, that gives you an idea of what kind of shape our country is in.
[14:31.460 --> 14:36.420]  They're trying to, you know, steal the election and we must go in there and show them who's...
[14:36.420 --> 14:37.240]  That's what I want to see.
[14:37.320 --> 14:38.120]  I want to see a coup.
[14:38.440 --> 14:40.300]  You know, I want to see George W.
[14:40.460 --> 14:43.040]  Bush get the army together and march on down, you know...
[14:43.040 --> 14:44.140]  The United States Army?
[14:44.420 --> 14:46.300]  I would have a very real problem with that.
[14:46.500 --> 14:47.360]  No, a militia.
[14:47.460 --> 14:48.600]  A well-oiled militia.
[14:48.600 --> 14:50.940]  A well-organized militia would be another story.
[14:51.560 --> 14:52.860]  You would support that?
[14:53.700 --> 14:55.400]  I'm not going to say either way.
[14:55.840 --> 14:57.760]  But I would say that if...
[14:59.400 --> 15:00.760]  Yeah, until after it happens.
[15:01.700 --> 15:12.100]  I would say that if the United States military were to back either of these gentlemen, we would be on the long road to following the demise of Rome.
[15:12.100 --> 15:18.260]  Yes, of course, but would you support a private militia or something getting George Bush into office?
[15:19.080 --> 15:19.880]  Because I wouldn't.
[15:20.060 --> 15:21.800]  Honestly, I don't know my feelings about that.
[15:21.960 --> 15:22.080]  They'd have to keep him in office, too.
[15:22.740 --> 15:24.440]  No, but what do you mean keep him in office?
[15:24.520 --> 15:25.100]  He won the election.
[15:25.360 --> 15:26.340]  Well, yeah, I know that.
[15:26.420 --> 15:30.140]  But, you know, a private militia can bring him down to the Capitol building or the White House or whatever.
[15:30.140 --> 15:31.040]  Honestly, I don't think it's going to come to that.
[15:31.180 --> 15:35.760]  I think that people are going to come to their senses and just put the guy in office and that'll be the end of it.
[15:35.900 --> 15:39.460]  See, I don't think people care as much as all the media people seem to think we do.
[15:39.460 --> 15:41.860]  Well, the media, of course, is working on it.
[15:41.860 --> 15:47.620]  Personally, I think it would be a good idea just to divide, you know, and have Gore and Bush.
[15:47.780 --> 15:49.500]  You know, whoever it is you voted for, that's your president.
[15:49.500 --> 15:51.400]  It doesn't make any difference, you know?
[15:51.620 --> 15:53.620]  It's just in your mind, that's your president.
[15:53.800 --> 15:54.260]  That's your president.
[15:54.320 --> 15:55.820]  Policies aren't going to be radically different.
[15:56.000 --> 16:00.840]  What about the majority of people in this country who neither voted for Bush nor Gore?
[16:00.880 --> 16:01.800]  Well, you don't count.
[16:02.040 --> 16:03.600]  They can go watch something else.
[16:03.900 --> 16:05.640]  They can watch another channel on the TV.
[16:09.900 --> 16:17.200]  Because, you know, when the State of the Union comes around, you just simply have the voice of whatever candidate you are, you know, fill in the words.
[16:17.360 --> 16:17.820]  It's not going to work.
[16:17.940 --> 16:19.040]  Computer technology can do that.
[16:19.160 --> 16:19.640]  This can work.
[16:20.060 --> 16:20.800]  This can work.
[16:20.920 --> 16:21.380]  You have the speech.
[16:21.380 --> 16:23.060]  So it's like one of those choose-your-own-adventure books.
[16:23.080 --> 16:25.760]  You have the speech, and it's read in the voice of your choice.
[16:25.880 --> 16:27.520]  Hell, you could even have Ralph Nader do it.
[16:27.560 --> 16:29.260]  You could even have his voice reading the speech.
[16:29.360 --> 16:30.680]  But he wouldn't say these things.
[16:30.760 --> 16:31.300]  That has potential.
[16:39.460 --> 16:41.620]  You could have a candidate's voice and tell me if that wouldn't work.
[16:41.740 --> 16:42.260]  And I think it will.
[16:42.420 --> 16:45.660]  Well, the real issue is more foreign policy than anything else.
[16:46.120 --> 16:48.180]  We do need to choose a leader.
[16:48.540 --> 16:48.760]  Yeah.
[16:49.040 --> 16:51.620]  Well, a leader does need to know the names of the other countries, too.
[16:52.380 --> 16:55.940]  Well, I'm sure that his advisors will, of course, bring him that information.
[16:56.300 --> 16:56.500]  I hope so.
[16:56.680 --> 16:57.120]  I hope so.
[16:57.500 --> 16:59.160]  There are markets that need to be opened.
[16:59.280 --> 17:00.340]  We need foreign policy.
[17:00.600 --> 17:01.780]  We need to sort it out.
[17:02.160 --> 17:03.240]  I think it's great, though.
[17:03.280 --> 17:03.800]  I love this.
[17:04.040 --> 17:05.020]  I love the chaos.
[17:05.260 --> 17:07.060]  Two weeks after Election Day, and nobody knows what's going on.
[17:07.060 --> 17:08.200]  You're an entropy fan?
[17:08.200 --> 17:09.800]  I just like the chaos.
[17:09.960 --> 17:13.080]  I like seeing the whole system falling apart and being shown for what it is.
[17:13.220 --> 17:17.860]  Because this election garbage, it's not real.
[17:18.340 --> 17:19.120]  Oh, it's real.
[17:19.220 --> 17:21.800]  No, what we think is a fair vote is not a fair vote.
[17:21.900 --> 17:26.740]  And case in point, these punch cards, they've been going on like this for decades.
[17:27.320 --> 17:32.560]  Now, there have been like the little pregnant chads and dimple chads and whatever you want to call them for a long time now.
[17:32.560 --> 17:41.500]  And that means that votes have been counted one way or another, but almost without a doubt, they haven't been counted fairly because, you know...
[17:41.500 --> 17:43.420]  Define what you mean by fairly.
[17:43.700 --> 17:49.360]  Well, by certain state laws, Texas included, you have to count a dimpled chad as a vote.
[17:49.420 --> 17:52.440]  That is part of the law in many, many states.
[17:52.740 --> 17:55.160]  And the fact that Texas is one of them is kind of ironic.
[17:55.460 --> 18:00.000]  Now, with the way the machines count the votes, they're not counted right now.
[18:00.000 --> 18:07.540]  So for all this time, dimpled chads have not been counted, which means how many elections have been decided by the dimpled chad vote?
[18:07.700 --> 18:13.960]  Well, this is news to me because I wasn't aware of any state statutes that say dimpled chad or anything like that.
[18:14.300 --> 18:16.860]  I don't know if they call them that, but that's...
[18:16.860 --> 18:19.600]  Well, if you can dig them up, then I would, of course, support you.
[18:19.720 --> 18:21.800]  I actually saw a copy of the Texas law.
[18:21.960 --> 18:28.800]  I can't remember if it was the Wall Street Journal, the Times, or Investor's Business Daily, but it expressly prohibits dimpled chads.
[18:28.800 --> 18:29.960]  Sorry to break your bubble.
[18:30.160 --> 18:32.800]  Well, that's not what the media is saying these days.
[18:32.960 --> 18:34.860]  Well, the media is saying lots of things that are inaccurate.
[18:35.040 --> 18:35.320]  Okay.
[18:35.380 --> 18:37.580]  Well, you show me that law, and I'll show you my law.
[18:37.620 --> 18:38.200]  I'll try to dig it up.
[18:38.520 --> 18:43.640]  But it's being widely reported that Texas law says dimpled chads are acceptable.
[18:43.820 --> 18:44.280]  Well, that's nice.
[18:44.280 --> 18:45.280]  Maybe it's in a recount.
[18:45.460 --> 18:46.860]  Maybe that's what you're missing there.
[18:47.000 --> 18:50.760]  But, you know, dimpled chads are widely accepted.
[18:50.960 --> 18:53.680]  But this is easily verifiable by anyone who can hop online.
[18:53.680 --> 18:54.380]  Here's what I don't get.
[18:54.440 --> 18:55.020]  Here's what I don't get.
[18:55.020 --> 18:59.680]  How come the Republicans are so against dimpled chads being counted?
[18:59.840 --> 19:02.620]  Is there something about dimpled chads that Democrats are drawn to?
[19:02.720 --> 19:10.920]  The problem is that we're now on our fifth recount, and we're changing the rules halfway into it, and the number is slowly creeping up for Gore.
[19:11.320 --> 19:14.520]  And basically, I can tell you exactly what the tactic here is.
[19:14.820 --> 19:30.120]  We're going to continue recounting and continue recounting until the successful outcome for Gore has been reached, at which point the thing will be, oh, well, you see, Gore is actually the legitimate, I'd like to say dictator, but we won't go into that.
[19:30.180 --> 19:34.840]  Yeah, but you see, you have to look at this, try to look at this in a nonpartisan way, all right?
[19:35.180 --> 19:36.620]  I'm looking at it in a lawful way.
[19:36.800 --> 19:38.580]  Well, you're looking at it in a Republican way.
[19:38.640 --> 19:40.020]  No, I'm looking at it in a lawful way.
[19:40.460 --> 19:46.200]  For instance, you had, what, the 16,000 votes that got thrown away just because the, you know...
[19:46.200 --> 19:46.960]  They were double-punched.
[19:47.000 --> 19:50.400]  They were double-punched because of faults with the machines, as far as I'm concerned.
[19:50.400 --> 19:52.440]  I've never seen a machine that allows you to punch two things.
[19:52.740 --> 19:57.380]  And so many people making the same mistake indicates to me that there's something wrong with the process, all right?
[19:57.560 --> 20:01.400]  Now, you had that, and all the Republicans said, yeah, they're stupid people.
[20:01.560 --> 20:02.580]  They're stupid senior citizens.
[20:02.760 --> 20:04.340]  They, you know, they shouldn't even be voting.
[20:04.400 --> 20:05.040]  They shouldn't be driving.
[20:05.460 --> 20:12.620]  Then you have the military making more mistakes because they don't have postmarks when it's extremely clear that there have to be postmarks.
[20:12.700 --> 20:13.320]  Everybody knew that.
[20:13.400 --> 20:24.120]  Now, last week we read a story that said that they didn't have to be postmarks, but in Florida law, in fact, that Secretary of State, that Harris person, said that there have to be postmarks.
[20:24.180 --> 20:24.540]  That's Florida law.
[20:24.540 --> 20:25.580]  The postmarks were not there.
[20:25.620 --> 20:28.220]  In fact, military people don't even get postmarks.
[20:28.340 --> 20:30.340]  They never realized that until now, apparently.
[20:30.500 --> 20:38.480]  But those same people that were calling the senior citizens stupid are now playing the whole military card, saying, oh, these men and women are out there serving our country, and to treat them like this is criminal.
[20:38.700 --> 20:39.600]  Well, you know what?
[20:39.640 --> 20:40.160]  That's tough.
[20:40.360 --> 20:42.280]  They didn't follow the rules just like the other people.
[20:42.380 --> 20:44.360]  If you recount one, you have to recount the other.
[20:44.360 --> 20:50.700]  Well, we're not going to go that far, simply because once the military people vote, it's out of their hands.
[20:50.700 --> 21:02.100]  They hand it to the election officer or the voting officer, and it's fairly frequent that this guy will simply take the whole stack, rubber band them, put postage or a postmark on the outside of the box of the entire stack.
[21:02.400 --> 21:06.780]  It gets sent back to the Pentagon, and then they redistribute it to where it's supposed to go for the absentee ballot.
[21:06.940 --> 21:08.560]  Isaac learned this when he was in NAMM.
[21:08.960 --> 21:09.940]  Well, we're not going to go...
[21:09.940 --> 21:11.880]  The point is, that's not what happened this time.
[21:11.880 --> 21:14.960]  There are individual ballots showing up without postmarks.
[21:15.220 --> 21:16.280]  There are a lot of...
[21:16.280 --> 21:16.980]  And unfortunately, that's...
[21:16.980 --> 21:22.620]  You know, it's not something that the voter did wrong, but it's something wrong with the entire procedure that was never looked at until now.
[21:22.620 --> 21:24.380]  But we can't revise the procedure now.
[21:24.940 --> 21:25.780]  It's over.
[21:26.120 --> 21:27.220]  We've done the tabulation.
[21:27.220 --> 21:29.680]  So you're saying we shouldn't count those military votes, right?
[21:30.020 --> 21:31.380]  The people have already voted.
[21:31.960 --> 21:32.920]  I have a couple of facts.
[21:33.180 --> 21:33.360]  We can't change...
[21:33.920 --> 21:34.900]  They've already voted.
[21:35.120 --> 21:39.660]  We can't change the rules midstream, simply because it is not an outcome that you seem to think desirable.
[21:39.660 --> 21:40.620]  But those aren't changing the rules.
[21:40.620 --> 21:42.440]  The rules say you have to have a postmark.
[21:42.500 --> 21:43.280]  We counted this thing seven times.
[21:43.400 --> 21:44.300]  We know who the president is.
[21:44.320 --> 21:44.560]  Hang on.
[21:44.640 --> 21:45.100]  Hang on a second.
[21:45.280 --> 21:47.800]  We're talking about absentee ballots here.
[21:48.280 --> 21:48.880]  Absentee ballots.
[21:49.160 --> 21:49.760]  Absentee ballots.
[21:49.800 --> 21:51.120]  They have not been counted yet, all right?
[21:51.440 --> 21:54.360]  The absentee ballots have to be counted, all right?
[21:54.420 --> 21:57.900]  And that means that you look at the postmark.
[21:58.000 --> 21:59.440]  If the postmark is not there, you don't count it.
[21:59.620 --> 22:00.740]  You want to change the rules.
[22:00.800 --> 22:01.280]  You want to go back.
[22:01.300 --> 22:02.580]  I have no interest in changing the rules.
[22:02.580 --> 22:04.440]  Well, if you don't count...
[22:04.440 --> 22:08.600]  If you count them based on postmarks that aren't there, you are changing the rules because the rules clearly state...
[22:08.600 --> 22:16.520]  Then those ballots that were absentee that have no postmark, as required by Florida law, are not legal and should not be counted.
[22:16.820 --> 22:18.040]  That's all I wanted to hear.
[22:18.140 --> 22:19.400]  I will grant you that to you.
[22:19.520 --> 22:20.100]  Three things.
[22:20.320 --> 22:21.080]  Thing number one.
[22:21.360 --> 22:26.820]  Four years ago, there was a higher proportion of double-punched ballots in, what is it, Palm Beach County?
[22:26.820 --> 22:27.020]  Yes.
[22:27.180 --> 22:28.180]  Than there are this time around.
[22:28.340 --> 22:28.940]  No one bitched.
[22:29.320 --> 22:29.900]  No, you're wrong.
[22:29.940 --> 22:30.220]  You're wrong.
[22:30.320 --> 22:30.540]  You're wrong.
[22:30.620 --> 22:30.960]  You're wrong.
[22:31.040 --> 22:31.540]  They were lower.
[22:31.680 --> 22:33.860]  There was about 14,000, not 16,000.
[22:33.960 --> 22:35.080]  Lower percentage.
[22:35.880 --> 22:36.280]  Higher percentage.
[22:36.280 --> 22:38.760]  A higher percentage four years ago.
[22:38.900 --> 22:39.080]  Okay.
[22:39.260 --> 22:40.420]  Lower number, higher percentage.
[22:40.520 --> 22:41.200]  That's conceivable.
[22:41.420 --> 22:41.560]  Okay.
[22:41.740 --> 22:44.840]  That leads me to believe that the entire process down there is flawed.
[22:44.920 --> 22:46.800]  Oh, I don't like a butterfly ballot either.
[22:46.940 --> 22:52.620]  And the fact that nobody knew about it until now, except people on the election committee, you know, that tells me that they didn't really care.
[22:52.760 --> 22:55.760]  It's because they don't announce on the news, hey, your vote got thrown out.
[22:56.140 --> 22:57.600]  Yeah, nobody knew about it then.
[22:57.800 --> 22:58.980]  Well, nobody knows about it now.
[22:59.440 --> 23:00.300]  Just two more facts.
[23:00.580 --> 23:13.640]  Fact number two, in 1980, under Jimmy Carter's administration, Democrat, Florida signed a consent order in which they were forced to accept non-postmarked military ballots.
[23:13.880 --> 23:16.580]  Because, gee, lots of military mail doesn't get postmarked.
[23:16.700 --> 23:17.240]  That's interesting.
[23:17.920 --> 23:21.340]  Fact number three, I always thought this was a radio show about hacking.
[23:21.540 --> 23:23.440]  Yes, I was about to make this point.
[23:23.580 --> 23:24.980]  We're trying to get into that, all right?
[23:25.380 --> 23:29.840]  We're talking about an old technology that has caused havoc and chaos on our system.
[23:29.840 --> 23:34.000]  Well, it goes to show how technology can be misused.
[23:34.140 --> 23:36.220]  And in this particular case, it has been misused.
[23:36.340 --> 23:38.200]  We're just finding out how bad it is right now.
[23:38.440 --> 23:42.980]  I mean, you know, I went to college with people that use punch cards, all right?
[23:43.620 --> 23:44.740]  For programming computers.
[23:44.760 --> 23:45.340]  For programming computers.
[23:45.380 --> 23:47.240]  Yeah, Bill Gates brought that up in his keynote last week.
[23:47.240 --> 23:50.760]  But we haven't used that in a long time.
[23:51.100 --> 23:52.480]  You know, and there's a reason for this.
[23:52.680 --> 23:53.500]  There's a reason for this.
[23:53.600 --> 23:58.000]  It's not the best system, you know, for counting things, for keeping track of things.
[23:58.340 --> 23:59.420]  It's a hard time we moved down.
[23:59.500 --> 24:00.400]  And I had no idea.
[24:00.560 --> 24:02.120]  I had no idea we were using it in this way.
[24:02.120 --> 24:03.480]  We need interactive kiosks.
[24:03.760 --> 24:05.620]  Chad's fall out and change your program.
[24:06.180 --> 24:07.380]  Chad's fall out, but you know what?
[24:07.480 --> 24:09.140]  Chad's are supposed to fall out, you know?
[24:09.260 --> 24:11.060]  Chad's will not fall out if they are not punched.
[24:11.240 --> 24:14.220]  You cannot wave a punch card and have things fall out from it if it hasn't been punched.
[24:14.220 --> 24:15.680]  Oh, I don't think you've ever used a punch card.
[24:15.680 --> 24:16.760]  I've held many punch cards.
[24:16.820 --> 24:19.460]  In fact, I used to pay my phone bill with a punch card in it.
[24:19.560 --> 24:22.020]  And I would try to punch extra things out just to see what would happen.
[24:23.840 --> 24:24.480]  Okay, sure.
[24:24.720 --> 24:26.860]  They wouldn't fall out unless you punched them, I'll tell you that right now.
[24:26.860 --> 24:29.480]  Listen, we can't stay on this... Yes, let us move on, please.
[24:29.820 --> 24:31.900]  We're definitely going to run short on time.
[24:32.000 --> 24:34.380]  We have to... we have a special guest we have to call.
[24:36.320 --> 24:38.660]  Okay, I'll get to read or mail in a little while.
[24:39.720 --> 24:41.620]  When I was in Nashville, did you do anything in that?
[24:41.680 --> 24:42.820]  No, you were only there for two hours, right?
[24:42.900 --> 24:44.040]  No, I wasn't there for two hours.
[24:44.180 --> 24:44.980]  I was there for the whole day.
[24:45.120 --> 24:46.220]  And that evening, I left.
[24:46.500 --> 24:47.460]  I arrived that morning.
[24:47.640 --> 24:52.960]  I was there the whole day, dealing with the guys in the various rooms and people cutting cables.
[24:53.440 --> 24:55.000]  I was tired, but it was fun.
[24:55.000 --> 24:56.800]  Well, you were tired because you drove 12 hours down.
[24:56.820 --> 25:00.220]  Yeah, and then I stayed the whole day and then I drove all the way back.
[25:00.440 --> 25:01.000]  Yes, well, you know.
[25:01.400 --> 25:03.840]  I know you have a pressing schedule, but that's ridiculous.
[25:04.680 --> 25:07.680]  I took in all kinds of sites when I was down there.
[25:07.700 --> 25:08.260]  Are these my surprises?
[25:09.020 --> 25:09.380]  Yeah.
[25:09.820 --> 25:10.960]  You promised surprises last week.
[25:11.080 --> 25:11.960]  Yeah, I got surprises.
[25:12.060 --> 25:13.200]  I got big surprises right here.
[25:13.320 --> 25:13.520]  Okay.
[25:14.500 --> 25:17.240]  A lot of things in Nashville are different than things here.
[25:18.620 --> 25:19.780]  Religion is everywhere.
[25:20.020 --> 25:23.540]  There is no aspect of life we... you buy a cupcake, there's religion on it somewhere.
[25:23.920 --> 25:24.960]  I guarantee you.
[25:25.000 --> 25:26.480]  I'm not seeing a problem with that, but okay.
[25:26.640 --> 25:29.580]  It's just... well, as long as you see it in perspective.
[25:29.620 --> 25:34.920]  If you're not a religious person or if you're part of the competing religions, then, you know, you could feel a little bit out of place.
[25:35.400 --> 25:36.420]  Oh, poor guy.
[25:36.620 --> 25:41.580]  Yeah, well, you know, and if you're growing up, if you're a school kid, you might find it kind of hard to escape.
[25:42.020 --> 25:44.940]  And a lot of these people, I give credit for, for escaping.
[25:45.220 --> 25:45.500]  Anyway...
[25:45.500 --> 25:47.340]  What are you going to do for the other 60 years of your life?
[25:48.540 --> 25:49.200]  Recover, I guess.
[25:49.300 --> 25:49.620]  I don't know.
[25:49.620 --> 25:49.680]  Okay.
[25:50.360 --> 25:56.200]  The thing is, I went with a bunch of undercover people to one of these fundamentalist Christian stores.
[25:56.320 --> 25:58.000]  I've never been in one in my life before.
[25:58.340 --> 26:02.740]  And I figured I'd just bring some stuff back for all of us to share.
[26:03.280 --> 26:07.760]  Now, for you, I have this Bible Man mask.
[26:07.880 --> 26:12.560]  It's official cape and mask of some character that they're really big into down there called Bible Man.
[26:12.640 --> 26:14.200]  If you can see, he looks kind of like a monster.
[26:14.320 --> 26:14.620]  Here you go.
[26:15.020 --> 26:15.820]  Isaac, try that on.
[26:16.420 --> 26:18.100]  And it comes with something else.
[26:18.100 --> 26:19.880]  He looks more like a Mexican wrestler.
[26:20.240 --> 26:20.240]  Right.
[26:20.320 --> 26:21.720]  I think they wore those in the Crusades.
[26:21.820 --> 26:24.380]  Official cape and mask set, The Bible Man Adventure.
[26:24.660 --> 26:24.860]  Yeah.
[26:25.160 --> 26:27.260]  www.bibleman.com.
[26:27.320 --> 26:27.580]  There you go.
[26:27.660 --> 26:30.220]  Now, there's a bunch of kids running around in Nashville with Bible Man outfits.
[26:30.660 --> 26:34.200]  Now, don't put that on yet because we still have to have the official Bible Man sword.
[26:35.760 --> 26:37.020]  Bible Men have swords?
[26:37.120 --> 26:37.300]  Yeah.
[26:38.060 --> 26:39.180]  Evidently battery operated.
[26:39.380 --> 26:40.620]  I even bought some batteries.
[26:40.740 --> 26:41.360]  These are Christian batteries.
[26:41.560 --> 26:41.760]  Oh, wow.
[26:42.720 --> 26:44.560]  You can just put them in and operate them.
[26:44.560 --> 26:45.620]  Long-lasting power.
[26:45.720 --> 26:46.100]  That's right.
[26:46.100 --> 26:46.100]  Okay.
[26:46.900 --> 26:48.300]  Powerful lights and sound.
[26:48.440 --> 26:50.000]  Official sword of the spirit.
[26:50.480 --> 26:51.940]  Now, there's a warning.
[26:51.940 --> 26:52.120]  That's right.
[26:52.480 --> 26:53.820]  There's a warning on the back here.
[26:54.420 --> 26:54.860]  Warning.
[26:55.020 --> 26:55.640]  And it does say this.
[26:55.860 --> 27:01.560]  This sword represents the word of God and is not intended for any use that causes harm to others.
[27:02.600 --> 27:03.940]  Gee, it's a good God.
[27:04.100 --> 27:05.860]  Let me just throw something.
[27:05.860 --> 27:08.000]  Not recommended for children under the age of four.
[27:08.200 --> 27:08.340]  All right.
[27:08.400 --> 27:10.080]  Now, I want you to install that.
[27:10.220 --> 27:11.920]  You can go out on your little mini crusade.
[27:12.540 --> 27:15.960]  Let me just throw in here that everybody loves Buffy the Vampire.
[27:15.960 --> 27:17.520]  Slayer, where she's slaying demons.
[27:17.820 --> 27:19.860]  And you have the sort of inverse of that.
[27:20.260 --> 27:22.800]  And, you know, here we are making fun of it.
[27:22.960 --> 27:23.940]  Well, as well, I've got...
[27:23.940 --> 27:24.480]  I agree with you, Jim.
[27:24.480 --> 27:25.720]  I think they're rather equivalent.
[27:26.000 --> 27:26.580]  I agree with you.
[27:26.660 --> 27:27.960]  I've got the evanju...
[27:28.540 --> 27:29.660]  Wait, how do you say this?
[27:29.940 --> 27:30.740]  Hold on a second.
[27:31.500 --> 27:32.540]  The evanju cube.
[27:32.880 --> 27:33.000]  Yeah.
[27:33.320 --> 27:34.120]  I'd like to take that.
[27:34.440 --> 27:34.760]  Wow.
[27:35.000 --> 27:37.580]  I don't like a Rubik's Cube, but it's all about evangelism.
[27:38.240 --> 27:40.080]  Read what's on the label there.
[27:40.400 --> 27:41.660]  What problem do you have with this stuff?
[27:41.660 --> 27:46.360]  Unfolding the answer to life's greatest puzzle, the evanju cube.
[27:46.760 --> 27:49.620]  Yeah, now there's pictures of all kinds of little...
[27:49.620 --> 27:50.600]  Yeah, it's got...
[27:50.600 --> 27:52.360]  If you solve it, you're what?
[27:52.480 --> 27:52.880]  Saved?
[27:53.000 --> 27:53.280]  Immortal?
[27:53.480 --> 27:53.540]  What?
[27:53.560 --> 27:53.840]  Right.
[27:54.540 --> 27:56.420]  Oh, and it's mixed up already.
[27:57.000 --> 27:57.980]  Well, of course it's mixed up.
[27:57.980 --> 27:58.840]  You have to solve it.
[27:58.860 --> 27:59.660]  You have to solve the puzzle.
[27:59.900 --> 28:03.080]  I could never solve a Rubik's Cube without taking the stickers off.
[28:03.080 --> 28:04.460]  I was going to say, take it apart and...
[28:04.460 --> 28:06.400]  You know, there are videos...
[28:06.400 --> 28:09.940]  I didn't buy one of these, but there are videos there about how to become an evangelist.
[28:10.160 --> 28:15.220]  You know, the various ways of doing things and how to raise money and how to get people to follow you wherever you might go.
[28:15.260 --> 28:17.260]  Oh, this is evanju cube.org.
[28:17.880 --> 28:18.960]  You can actually...
[28:20.240 --> 28:21.300]  It's made for everybody.
[28:21.700 --> 28:27.820]  Missionaries, lay leaders, everybody can use this easy-to-use puzzle to bring the gospel of Jesus Christ to life.
[28:28.020 --> 28:29.440]  Okay, John, I got something for you.
[28:30.040 --> 28:31.280]  How about some prescriptions?
[28:31.280 --> 28:31.400]  Scriptures.
[28:32.100 --> 28:34.040]  This comes in a...
[28:34.040 --> 28:35.520]  It looks like a pharmacy bottle.
[28:36.660 --> 28:39.760]  And there aren't pills in there, but there are scriptures.
[28:40.040 --> 28:40.600]  But it's...
[28:40.600 --> 28:41.460]  I can refill it, right?
[28:41.580 --> 28:42.540]  I'm sorry, Mike is not.
[28:42.620 --> 28:42.860]  Go ahead.
[28:43.060 --> 28:43.940]  I can refill it, right?
[28:43.940 --> 28:44.320]  I don't know.
[28:44.440 --> 28:45.820]  I think there's no refills on that.
[28:46.100 --> 28:48.780]  But why don't you open it up and see what's in the first one.
[28:48.920 --> 28:49.340]  Okay, here's the...
[28:49.340 --> 28:54.600]  This evanju cube, by the way, is made in a Chinese sweatshop, which is real Christian compassion.
[28:54.880 --> 29:02.940]  May the God of hope fill you with joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.
[29:03.260 --> 29:05.020]  And we all agree we should overflow with hope.
[29:05.280 --> 29:06.860]  From Romans 15, 13.
[29:07.160 --> 29:07.860]  Testaments, anyone?
[29:08.020 --> 29:09.960]  I've got a whole box of testaments here.
[29:10.900 --> 29:11.340]  Testaments.
[29:11.740 --> 29:12.180]  Testaments.
[29:12.340 --> 29:14.580]  The mints that have little sayings on them.
[29:14.600 --> 29:18.260]  The Lord is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit.
[29:19.080 --> 29:19.440]  There you go.
[29:19.620 --> 29:20.080]  I'll crush that.
[29:20.320 --> 29:22.480]  And a nice box that you can save.
[29:23.640 --> 29:24.700]  Store all kinds of...
[29:24.700 --> 29:25.360]  This is a very nice-looking box.
[29:25.500 --> 29:29.280]  Do you think they'll have the election done by the millennium when Christ comes back?
[29:30.980 --> 29:33.260]  Will it matter if we have a president by then?
[29:33.400 --> 29:35.420]  When he comes, I'm going to give him my evanju cube.
[29:36.440 --> 29:39.960]  Maybe he'll come sooner if I solve the evanju cube.
[29:39.960 --> 29:41.580]  We've only got a little more than a month to solve it.
[29:41.760 --> 29:42.900]  All right, we've got bumper stickers here.
[29:42.960 --> 29:45.360]  Did you ever read the Nine Billion Names of God by Arthur C.
[29:45.440 --> 29:45.700]  Clarke?
[29:45.800 --> 29:47.680]  We've got some bumper stickers.
[29:47.980 --> 29:49.700]  Our God is an awesome God.
[29:50.240 --> 29:51.700]  Who wants that one out there?
[29:51.700 --> 29:52.400]  I've heard that song.
[29:52.600 --> 29:52.940]  All right.
[29:53.320 --> 29:55.680]  And here's another one for people who are lost.
[29:55.740 --> 29:56.240]  Need directions?
[29:56.580 --> 29:57.200]  Ask God.
[29:58.040 --> 29:58.900]  Don't ask me.
[29:58.900 --> 29:59.560]  I like that.
[30:01.200 --> 30:05.040]  And here's a little mathematical equation for people out there.
[30:05.140 --> 30:07.200]  Cross greater than, I less than.
[30:07.400 --> 30:09.500]  Christ must increase and I must decrease.
[30:09.880 --> 30:10.060]  Ah.
[30:10.300 --> 30:10.480]  Right.
[30:10.660 --> 30:11.760]  That's pretty bad math.
[30:13.640 --> 30:15.220]  That's fuzzy for John Popper.
[30:15.380 --> 30:17.220]  And here's something for all you drunk drivers out there.
[30:17.280 --> 30:17.740]  Why worry?
[30:17.880 --> 30:18.580]  God's in control.
[30:21.800 --> 30:24.400]  And another one that might give you some pause.
[30:24.540 --> 30:27.000]  Don't drive faster than your guardian angel can fly.
[30:28.220 --> 30:28.980]  I like that.
[30:29.100 --> 30:31.500]  You dropped some serious cash at the...
[30:31.500 --> 30:32.940]  These bumper stickers are actually pretty cheap.
[30:33.160 --> 30:33.920]  And here we go.
[30:34.000 --> 30:36.160]  The little Darwin fish being swallowed by...
[30:36.160 --> 30:37.700]  What is that symbol on the fish there?
[30:39.680 --> 30:42.760]  That's Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior in Greek letters.
[30:42.920 --> 30:43.920]  First, the letter of each word.
[30:44.180 --> 30:45.100]  Survival of the forgiven.
[30:45.380 --> 30:48.040]  And basically that tells you what they think about evolution.
[30:48.040 --> 30:49.940]  Evolution, science, toss it out the window.
[30:50.340 --> 30:54.040]  In Greek, the initials spell ichthyos, which is Greek for fish.
[30:54.540 --> 30:56.160]  That's how the symbol comes up.
[30:56.300 --> 31:01.320]  All right, we've got a Bible activity pad, mazes, dot-to-dot, word searches, fun pages to color, and more.
[31:02.180 --> 31:03.840]  All kinds of little things for you to...
[31:03.840 --> 31:04.720]  I want to take this, Isaac.
[31:04.900 --> 31:06.520]  You can color on the subway.
[31:06.700 --> 31:07.140]  Oh, can I?
[31:07.200 --> 31:08.300]  While you're waiting for the 7 train.
[31:08.720 --> 31:12.540]  I don't think these people should be giving so much money by you.
[31:12.540 --> 31:13.080]  Sorry?
[31:13.240 --> 31:15.280]  I don't think you should be giving these people so much money.
[31:15.840 --> 31:17.040]  Well, you know...
[31:17.040 --> 31:17.100]  Why?
[31:17.260 --> 31:18.860]  How many times am I going to be in Nashville?
[31:19.060 --> 31:20.640]  All right, here's the final one.
[31:20.740 --> 31:23.240]  And then we're going to move on with the rest of the show.
[31:23.660 --> 31:27.480]  And this is something I spent a lot of money on because I just had to have it and I had to see how it worked.
[31:27.500 --> 31:30.140]  This is the curse-free TV kit.
[31:30.320 --> 31:31.180]  Oh, my God.
[31:31.940 --> 31:36.660]  This will remove cursing from virtually all TV and video movie rentals.
[31:36.700 --> 31:39.220]  Now, I really am dying to see how this works.
[31:39.660 --> 31:42.240]  Automatically filters out profanity and other offensive phrases.
[31:42.540 --> 31:45.160]  Works on virtually all television programs and video movies.
[31:45.320 --> 31:47.560]  It's got two settings, strict and religious.
[31:48.420 --> 31:49.300]  It easily...
[31:49.980 --> 31:51.160]  I'm not making this up.
[31:51.280 --> 31:51.960]  Which is worse?
[31:52.140 --> 31:52.800]  Which is religious?
[31:53.140 --> 31:54.080]  Well, I'll get to that in a second.
[31:54.160 --> 31:57.800]  It easily connects between the TV and VCR, cable box, satellite receiver, or DVD.
[31:58.460 --> 32:02.520]  Has three closed caption settings and its accuracy up to 100%.
[32:03.220 --> 32:05.100]  Qualifying programs with a big asterisk.
[32:06.560 --> 32:10.020]  What I believe it does is it uses closed captioning.
[32:10.100 --> 32:11.000]  It reads the closed caption.
[32:11.000 --> 32:14.020]  Except, I don't know how that helps you if you're listening to a TV show.
[32:14.440 --> 32:16.000]  You know, does it insert a word?
[32:16.100 --> 32:17.560]  The closed caption would be...
[32:17.560 --> 32:23.340]  Is there anyway on the little part of the video that you can't see because it rolls up?
[32:23.360 --> 32:23.860]  Right, right.
[32:24.660 --> 32:30.100]  So it would probably read that and blank out the sound.
[32:30.180 --> 32:31.460]  Okay, here's the problem I have with that.
[32:31.460 --> 32:31.560]  If it's late.
[32:32.020 --> 32:32.900]  Here's the problem I have with that.
[32:32.960 --> 32:35.180]  Usually closed captioning comes a little bit afterwards.
[32:35.920 --> 32:37.000]  Well, that's live...
[32:37.000 --> 32:38.000]  That would be live TV.
[32:38.240 --> 32:38.900]  That's on live TV.
[32:39.300 --> 32:39.920]  How is...
[32:39.920 --> 32:43.380]  We don't know offhand how closed captioning is on tape stuff, do we?
[32:43.440 --> 32:43.740]  I've watched...
[32:43.740 --> 32:44.660]  Not tape stuff, but...
[32:44.660 --> 32:46.400]  I've watched tapes and pre-done tapes.
[32:46.420 --> 32:48.680]  Right, I've watched movies and it's not always on cue.
[32:48.880 --> 32:51.420]  Lots of times they get the word out before the word shows up.
[32:51.500 --> 32:52.220]  But I'm going to test it.
[32:52.360 --> 32:53.780]  I'm going to put Reservoir Dogs on.
[32:53.800 --> 32:54.340]  We should play with this.
[32:54.420 --> 32:55.400]  I'm going to hook it up to Reservoir Dogs.
[32:55.400 --> 32:56.160]  You're not going to hear a thing.
[32:56.580 --> 32:57.640]  Yeah, I'm probably not going to hear a thing.
[32:58.000 --> 32:59.160]  It was on Channel 11 the other night.
[32:59.160 --> 33:03.740]  It's like watching Chris Rock, you know, you're just going to see this guy standing up there and you're not going to hear anything out of that.
[33:03.920 --> 33:04.660]  Now, here's the thing.
[33:05.260 --> 33:06.260]  Strict and religious settings.
[33:06.440 --> 33:13.780]  Curse-free TV, strict setting, filters out all offensive phrases, including when the names of God are used in an exclamatory way.
[33:14.940 --> 33:16.060]  See, it's not just curses.
[33:16.060 --> 33:17.200]  It's the name of God.
[33:17.460 --> 33:24.140]  The religious setting, however, when viewing Christian programming, allows the names of God to come through without filtering them out.
[33:25.520 --> 33:29.840]  I want to leave this thing in a strict setting and watch a televangelist to see what happens.
[33:29.960 --> 33:31.000]  That ought to be kind of interesting.
[33:32.800 --> 33:41.580]  So, CFTV can be set to display continuous profanity-free closed-caption text by automatically removing the foul words and substituting less offensive words.
[33:42.620 --> 33:43.660]  That's going to be fun.
[33:43.840 --> 33:44.400]  Well, wait a minute.
[33:45.100 --> 33:45.960]  Read that again.
[33:46.080 --> 33:47.640]  Does that say it displays the text?
[33:47.940 --> 33:48.380]  Displays, yes.
[33:48.600 --> 33:48.880]  Ah.
[33:49.220 --> 33:49.380]  Yeah.
[33:50.280 --> 33:56.100]  Another setting displays the edited text on your TV screen only when CFTV has detected and muted out an offensive phrase.
[33:56.540 --> 33:59.380]  The third setting turns off the display of closed-caption text.
[34:00.640 --> 34:01.240]  I don't know.
[34:01.300 --> 34:01.960]  It looks like a lot of fun.
[34:01.960 --> 34:04.860]  Pass it around and see if you can find any...
[34:04.860 --> 34:06.180]  It's a black plastic box.
[34:06.180 --> 34:06.580]  I haven't opened it up.
[34:06.640 --> 34:09.820]  There could be a brick in there for all I know, but I thought it was pretty cool.
[34:09.940 --> 34:11.260]  Okay, that's my trip to the Christian store.
[34:11.380 --> 34:12.680]  I hope everybody enjoys what I brought back.
[34:13.180 --> 34:14.220]  Who's got the testaments?
[34:14.400 --> 34:15.240]  I want one of those.
[34:15.740 --> 34:16.800]  Oh, the testaments.
[34:17.140 --> 34:17.240]  Yeah.
[34:18.820 --> 34:20.040]  Well, you're going to hell.
[34:20.900 --> 34:21.800]  You think I'm going to hell?
[34:21.840 --> 34:23.160]  You think I've wrapped up?
[34:23.160 --> 34:25.800]  You spend eight minutes mocking Christianity on the air.
[34:25.800 --> 34:26.060]  We need curse-free radio.
[34:26.640 --> 34:27.440]  Mocking Christianity.
[34:27.600 --> 34:31.380]  I have one side of the room saying I spent too much money in a Christian store, and now you're accusing me of mocking them.
[34:31.480 --> 34:33.180]  I think we should have equal time.
[34:33.600 --> 34:35.580]  What was the purpose of this exercise, really?
[34:35.820 --> 34:40.380]  The purpose of this exercise is to expose people to other cultures or lack thereof.
[34:40.380 --> 34:41.840]  Humanism we should be mocking as well.
[34:41.960 --> 34:45.240]  Short of the curse-free TV, which is actually kind of interesting technologically.
[34:46.920 --> 34:49.380]  Well, you don't find the sword interesting technologically.
[34:49.560 --> 34:50.880]  I got you this sword.
[34:51.300 --> 34:52.720]  You have to put the batteries in.
[34:52.940 --> 34:55.300]  You know, Isaac, sometimes you're really ungrateful.
[34:55.600 --> 34:57.140]  What kind of Bible man are you anyway?
[34:57.620 --> 34:59.140]  You should have gotten two swords.
[34:59.280 --> 35:00.420]  We could have directed airplanes.
[35:00.580 --> 35:01.140]  Put on the mask.
[35:01.220 --> 35:02.060]  I want to see the mask.
[35:02.180 --> 35:02.800]  You want to see the mask.
[35:02.800 --> 35:05.460]  Yeah, and I hope somebody here has a camera, because I like to post this on the website.
[35:07.600 --> 35:09.360]  All right, I have to get a hold of our guest.
[35:09.360 --> 35:10.680]  Our guest is in Germany.
[35:10.900 --> 35:11.700]  This is really complex.
[35:11.740 --> 35:12.820]  Now, here's the interesting thing.
[35:13.740 --> 35:14.620]  I got a call.
[35:14.720 --> 35:15.980]  I got a call from our guest before.
[35:16.760 --> 35:19.740]  And I got a call on both my Sprint phone and my Omnipoint phone.
[35:19.840 --> 35:20.340]  And you know what?
[35:21.320 --> 35:23.200]  If you can tear yourself away from Bible man for a second.
[35:24.500 --> 35:26.620]  Caller ID gets passed internationally now.
[35:27.040 --> 35:27.340]  Really?
[35:27.560 --> 35:28.060]  It's something, yeah.
[35:28.260 --> 35:28.700]  That's amusing.
[35:28.900 --> 35:30.480]  Yeah, it doesn't get passed quite correctly.
[35:30.960 --> 35:34.220]  But there is a country code there, and there's a city code, and all kinds of other things.
[35:34.380 --> 35:36.080]  It doesn't say unavailable number.
[35:36.580 --> 35:37.680]  It does not say unavailable.
[35:37.860 --> 35:38.540]  It came right through.
[35:38.940 --> 35:40.900]  Yeah, and I don't think you can block it from there, either.
[35:41.040 --> 35:42.380]  I don't think they can dial star six, seven.
[35:43.720 --> 35:44.440]  So, all right.
[35:44.480 --> 35:46.720]  Let me get on the phone here.
[35:47.540 --> 35:48.140]  Dial tone, please.
[35:48.480 --> 35:48.960]  All right.
[35:49.580 --> 35:54.560]  What we're going to do is dial overseas to Germany.
[35:56.320 --> 35:57.800]  And block out the rest of the number.
[36:03.000 --> 36:03.480]  All right.
[36:12.260 --> 36:13.240]  Okay, magic tone.
[36:16.510 --> 36:19.190]  And in a moment, we should hear a German phone ringing.
[36:25.440 --> 36:27.040]  Oh, take the Bible man mask out.
[36:28.100 --> 36:29.480]  I'm interested in the German phone.
[36:29.620 --> 36:32.460]  Are you afraid of the responsibility of being Bible man?
[36:33.540 --> 36:36.060]  Well, I've been a superhero before, and I've worn a mask.
[36:36.060 --> 36:37.220]  There can be only one.
[36:37.500 --> 36:37.680]  Yeah.
[36:38.820 --> 36:39.920]  I don't, uh...
[36:41.220 --> 36:42.560]  Oh, that's just great.
[36:42.860 --> 36:43.900]  That's not a German ring.
[36:44.180 --> 36:44.480]  No.
[36:44.680 --> 36:46.800]  You know, I tried this before, too, and it worked just fine.
[36:47.440 --> 36:48.860]  Okay, I can see this is going to turn into a force.
[36:48.860 --> 36:52.580]  He took his phone off the hook because he was getting too many calls from the states that hung up.
[36:52.580 --> 36:59.240]  Jesus does not appreciate your funny mocking, and he is destroying your phone skills.
[36:59.580 --> 37:01.660]  You know, this is where everything starts to go wrong.
[37:02.500 --> 37:04.500]  I'm about to learn a hard lesson.
[37:07.870 --> 37:09.010]  Come on, Isaac, lighten up.
[37:09.030 --> 37:09.750]  You need some humor.
[37:10.250 --> 37:10.770]  You know?
[37:10.990 --> 37:13.790]  What kind of religion can't take a little good-natured jesting?
[37:13.790 --> 37:15.470]  Oh, I can take a little good-natured jesting.
[37:15.470 --> 37:16.670]  I get struck down by lightning.
[37:16.810 --> 37:18.670]  That doesn't say very much for a sense of humor there.
[37:19.450 --> 37:19.810]  All right.
[37:20.990 --> 37:22.570]  Let's hope that this works.
[37:26.050 --> 37:27.500]  Okay, pass the testaments around.
[37:28.830 --> 37:29.750]  They won't kill you.
[37:31.570 --> 37:32.170]  There we go.
[37:36.900 --> 37:37.250]  Hello.
[37:37.880 --> 37:38.650]  Hi, is this Andy?
[37:39.090 --> 37:39.250]  Yeah.
[37:39.540 --> 37:40.520]  Andy, hi, it's Emanuel.
[37:40.690 --> 37:44.090]  You're live on WBAI Radio in New York and around the world on the Internet.
[37:44.730 --> 37:45.040]  Mm-hmm.
[37:46.070 --> 37:46.440]  Andy...
[37:46.440 --> 37:50.020]  I'm just trying to get your audio stream, but it doesn't work anyhow.
[37:51.010 --> 37:51.730]  Oh, well...
[37:52.850 --> 37:55.590]  You know, I never get to try it because I'm always on the air when it's on.
[37:55.920 --> 37:56.610]  Uh-huh.
[37:56.940 --> 37:59.460]  But you're a familiar voice to our listeners.
[37:59.670 --> 38:00.880]  You're part of the Chaos Computer Club.
[38:01.020 --> 38:05.770]  But more recently, you became part of this magical organization known as ICANN.
[38:06.150 --> 38:06.480]  Uh-huh.
[38:07.130 --> 38:09.830]  Somehow, you managed to get elected to the board.
[38:10.330 --> 38:10.750]  Right.
[38:11.090 --> 38:12.020]  How did you do that?
[38:12.330 --> 38:13.330]  People voted for you.
[38:13.630 --> 38:15.050]  I mean, ICANN had a problem.
[38:15.350 --> 38:16.750]  They ran for about two years.
[38:17.210 --> 38:19.380]  It's a California-based company made by the U.S.
[38:19.480 --> 38:19.750]  government.
[38:20.020 --> 38:21.590]  The board of directors set up by the U.S.
[38:21.670 --> 38:21.980]  government.
[38:21.980 --> 38:25.330]  But its decisions have worldwide implications.
[38:26.050 --> 38:34.520]  And in the ICANN bylaws, there is some sentences about the legitimation of ICANN based on so-called bottom-up processes.
[38:34.750 --> 38:37.810]  So for the last two years, there has been no such legitimation.
[38:38.050 --> 38:48.770]  So what they did was a so-called at-large election, which meant they had a public possibility to register so-called at-large members to vote.
[38:48.770 --> 38:56.170]  So the whole process was more or less a conspiracy, and it was more or less kept secret.
[38:56.400 --> 38:59.020]  So ICANN didn't really want it to become an open club.
[38:59.190 --> 39:01.900]  It still is in fundamentality.
[39:02.050 --> 39:02.830]  It's a closed club.
[39:02.980 --> 39:07.670]  But they did this, I call it legitimation or assimilation of legitimation.
[39:07.670 --> 39:16.690]  And for the German press and some others here, quite got upset with this institution, because it's real strange set up.
[39:16.900 --> 39:21.330]  And its decisions are some kind of real strange, and it's not very transparent also.
[39:21.330 --> 39:27.730]  So I did register as a candidate, and I got some support here.
[39:28.110 --> 39:40.630]  So I was able to address some issues, seeing the Internet as a public space, and not so much as an economist room for, you know, handling it only for, you know, making money or capitalist gains.
[39:40.900 --> 39:46.710]  Well, that's what it seems to have turned into in recent years, and ICANN has certainly helped lead that, I think, in many ways.
[39:46.850 --> 39:48.710]  I mean, how do you think you're going to be able to change things?
[39:49.270 --> 40:02.350]  Yes, I mean, what's happening at ICANN is more or less, those guys, I mean, it's more or less, after John Postel died under some unclear circumstances, all the stuff was managed by ICANN.
[40:02.520 --> 40:06.420]  It still is a company more or less remote-controlled by the U.S.
[40:06.500 --> 40:07.830]  government, or at least the U.S.
[40:07.850 --> 40:13.020]  government has some possibilities to override the decisions made by ICANN.
[40:13.020 --> 40:23.880]  But what's happening there is a mentality of only seeing the Internet as some kind of, let's say, room for economic games.
[40:24.170 --> 40:34.940]  And so they have all the resources of the Internet, and that's, I mean, it's the Internet company for site names and numbers, so it's about names and numbers, and the name system is, of course, of great dependency.
[40:34.940 --> 40:39.810]  And what they do is handling it that as economic resources and selling them.
[40:40.420 --> 40:45.750]  So I guess there's one or two things I put on my agenda.
[40:46.000 --> 41:04.270]  The one thing is maybe I cannot really bring much diversity in the ICANN culture I'd like to, so I'll have to see how I can handle, as one of 19 board members being one of five of the elected board members, and the other still set up by industry companies and the U.S.
[41:04.350 --> 41:07.570]  government and so on, if I can really change something there.
[41:07.710 --> 41:26.770]  But what I probably can do is to bring some more transparency into the issues I can handle and let more people know on the net what's happening here, so to get more people an idea, maybe finding alternative ways, or let's call it concrete alternative name services or alternative root zone files,
[41:26.770 --> 41:33.940]  like namespaces offering, to avoid that single point of failure called the domain name system.
[41:36.550 --> 41:39.850]  Now, there was just a meeting over in California this past week, right?
[41:39.940 --> 41:40.380]  Were you there?
[41:40.550 --> 41:41.210]  You were at that meeting?
[41:41.710 --> 41:42.940]  Yeah, I've been at that meeting.
[41:43.090 --> 41:49.920]  I mean, that was kind of... I was not officially a director at that meeting, so at the end of the meeting I was set up.
[41:50.050 --> 41:55.400]  Yeah, now that was a cause for some controversy, too, because I believe one of the points of the meeting was to vote on the new top-level domains.
[41:55.890 --> 41:59.880]  And to have you not vote until after the meeting was over seemed kind of unfair.
[42:00.460 --> 42:01.290]  Right, yeah, yeah.
[42:01.380 --> 42:06.960]  It was, of course, it was kind of, let's say, consequent on the culture of ICANN.
[42:07.020 --> 42:08.960]  So what happened is it was a four-day meeting.
[42:09.350 --> 42:14.330]  Two days, this was all the supporting, so-called supporting organizations of ICANN.
[42:14.440 --> 42:21.590]  That was the domain name supporting organization, which has even a business constituency, which has an intellectual property constituency.
[42:21.590 --> 42:23.570]  You can guess what guys are sitting there.
[42:24.150 --> 42:38.420]  But there are also, it's a so-called MCDNHC, that's the Non-Commercial Domain Name Holders constituency, where some people try to get rights for non-commercial domain name holders, which have a lot of fights with the trademark issues in the domain space.
[42:39.540 --> 42:42.980]  So there are also, after these two days...
[42:42.980 --> 42:52.050]  Well, the other two days were just about this new top-level domain, so people could, if they could just afford $50,000 for making a suggestion.
[42:52.050 --> 43:04.020]  We had 47 companies bringing up that money and making a suggestion for a new top-level domain, which was also some commercial ones like .shop or .biz or whatever.
[43:04.210 --> 43:07.590]  But we also have, for example, .union for the unions.
[43:07.590 --> 43:15.440]  And we had .fucks for, you know, some free speech issues on what companies do to the society and so on.
[43:15.500 --> 43:16.900]  That's the one I was interested in, yes.
[43:17.090 --> 43:17.440]  Right.
[43:17.670 --> 43:19.750]  That was, by the way, also Paul Garantz.
[43:20.050 --> 43:31.980]  And so what happened is, at this Wednesday, it was, I mean, it was more or less a very great amusement theater, because those guys paid $50,000 to be able to speak three minutes.
[43:32.310 --> 43:43.460]  You know, you had CEOs of companies making millions a day, and those guys became real shy boys in between of the Ikenbrews sitting up there and allowing them only three minutes.
[43:43.560 --> 43:52.920]  And then there was a noise, you know, a boom, and then they were, yeah, they had to shut up immediately and were only allowed to answer some questions.
[43:52.920 --> 44:00.560]  So it was some kind of a very strange game, and it really looked like the world government playing a game with small companies.
[44:01.020 --> 44:06.310]  I can't believe someone would pay $50,000 just to make a suggestion and have three minutes to speak.
[44:06.330 --> 44:07.700]  It seems so crazy to me.
[44:07.810 --> 44:10.900]  Oh, have a look at www.icon.org.
[44:10.920 --> 44:13.000]  You'll see a lot more that you won't believe.
[44:14.730 --> 44:17.380]  I mean, this is some kind of a weird game.
[44:18.400 --> 44:21.440]  Andy, did you know what you were getting into when you ran for this?
[44:22.040 --> 44:22.980]  More or less.
[44:23.160 --> 44:25.210]  I mean, I've heard a lot about this institution.
[44:25.420 --> 44:26.160]  I've read a lot.
[44:26.400 --> 44:31.540]  I know reports about them, but I have not seen them in, you know, on real-life stage.
[44:31.900 --> 44:37.810]  So, I mean, knowing people by email is always something completely different than joining them in the so-called real life.
[44:38.230 --> 44:41.920]  So, of course, I knew that this was a pretty absurd action.
[44:42.660 --> 44:49.920]  But, I mean, my mission is next to supporting of transparency also a little bit to find about all absurdity on this planet.
[44:49.920 --> 44:51.250]  So why not go into there?
[44:51.440 --> 44:51.640]  Yeah.
[44:52.400 --> 44:52.830]  So...
[44:52.830 --> 44:54.880]  Well, you had tremendous support.
[44:55.080 --> 44:58.310]  I mean, I saw your name on there, and to be honest, I didn't think you had a chance in hell.
[44:58.600 --> 45:01.600]  And then I saw the results, and it was a landslide.
[45:01.880 --> 45:07.100]  You were second only to somebody in, I believe, Japan, with a total number of votes.
[45:07.310 --> 45:09.200]  So, what do you attribute that to?
[45:09.200 --> 45:12.520]  We have, I'm the so-called European at large directors.
[45:12.700 --> 45:22.500]  So, I had a lot of press work here, not only in Germany, but also in other countries like Switzerland, like Sweden, like France, Finland, and so on.
[45:22.500 --> 45:38.850]  And so I had a lot of talk with journalists, because it was a pretty good chance to bring some issues on the public, like the overruling or overriding of the whole Internet by those lawyers with their intellectual property ideas and with their ideas of trademark and so on.
[45:38.850 --> 45:55.960]  And as I've just joined your 2600 process, you know, fighting with the MPAA against or about this DCSS case, you remember I've been sitting in that courtroom for one week, and that teach me a very good lesson on watching what's happening here.
[45:55.960 --> 46:02.060]  So, it seems to be just the right moment to at least try to bring these issues to the public and explain it to them.
[46:02.060 --> 46:13.350]  Because, let's say, a European country is not maybe as much overruled as American culture is with commercial entities.
[46:15.270 --> 46:19.440]  So, anyhow, what's happening is, I mean, at Wednesday, it was a very strange discussion.
[46:19.900 --> 46:33.440]  At Thursday, they made a really absurd kind of decision, and it seemed to be like they were playing theater and not, for example, bringing that dot union or dot songs, dot that sucks, really, to decision.
[46:33.730 --> 46:40.250]  So, what happened is, dot union got no chance, but for some not very well-explained reasons.
[46:40.480 --> 46:59.880]  And what I heard now, just a few days after that, was that the guy who wanted to bring dot unions to support it, he was consulted by seven lawyers of the intellectual property consistency, and he was questioned a lot for about two hours by them in an informal meeting a Tuesday,
[46:59.880 --> 47:04.210]  and he did not full-fire with their ideas of intellectual property.
[47:04.480 --> 47:12.160]  So, the big question was, how would he handle, and also, how would the fucks handle trademark names in their domains?
[47:12.420 --> 47:30.250]  And, of course, those guys have other ideas than mentioning trademark chess, and so it seems to be a conspiracy within that ICANN board, you know, that the decisions, which are now transparent because of a lot of pressure, so this board meeting is at least a public meeting,
[47:30.270 --> 47:37.920]  but the way they decide and what's happening there is, of course, still fulfilled with the interest of industrial abuse and so on.
[47:39.000 --> 47:39.960]  That's scary.
[47:40.160 --> 47:40.710]  It really is.
[47:40.830 --> 47:42.640]  But it's to be expected, unfortunately.
[47:43.560 --> 47:44.100]  Excuse me?
[47:44.230 --> 47:45.980]  It's to be expected, unfortunately.
[47:45.980 --> 47:52.100]  I mean, we kind of went into this knowing that the people involved were not exactly the greatest humanitarians of all.
[47:52.620 --> 47:54.600]  I mean, you still have Esther Dyson there, don't you?
[47:54.600 --> 47:56.900]  No, Esther Dyson left the board.
[47:57.100 --> 47:57.640]  Okay.
[47:57.920 --> 47:59.640]  So Esther Dyson also supported.
[47:59.960 --> 48:10.080]  That was also some kind of, I mean, it was her last meeting, and she was, to be fair, she was the most liberal person on that board, at least in this meeting.
[48:10.270 --> 48:20.790]  So I thought that on her last day within ICANN, because she did support DOTSOX, and she explained that this would not be a support for free speech.
[48:20.790 --> 48:31.460]  This would, in her eyes, be a support for diversity, which means bringing, you know, other kinds of using domain name system to the domain name system.
[48:31.680 --> 48:45.100]  But she made a suggestion, and she supported DOTSOX until, let's say, there was a break, a small break at about 12 o'clock or so, for having some food.
[48:45.100 --> 48:48.330]  And afterwards, she didn't talk anyhow about it.
[48:48.520 --> 48:50.620]  So DOTSOX was no more discussed.
[48:50.880 --> 48:56.770]  So I can only guess that at dinner, at that small dinner break, that something happened.
[48:57.060 --> 49:02.000]  So this is all, you know, not very good to understand what's happening there.
[49:02.020 --> 49:04.730]  I can just tell you, there is a transcript of that fashion.
[49:04.940 --> 49:09.040]  And if you read it, it's for sure better than any comic you can find.
[49:10.210 --> 49:16.920]  Well, Andy, at least we have you on the inside now to a degree, and you can keep us updated when things like this are happening.
[49:17.160 --> 49:19.520]  We can maybe, you know, stop things before it's too late.
[49:19.520 --> 49:19.520]  Sure.
[49:19.520 --> 49:19.960]  I'm your agent, hey.
[49:21.230 --> 49:21.640]  Yes.
[49:21.730 --> 49:22.830]  Thank you for being there.
[49:22.940 --> 49:23.140]  Yeah.
[49:23.700 --> 49:25.400]  You want to stick around for a few phone calls?
[49:25.500 --> 49:26.380]  We have about 10 minutes left.
[49:27.480 --> 49:28.230]  Oh, okay.
[49:28.230 --> 49:31.810]  I mean, I don't want to dominate your whole show here.
[49:31.810 --> 49:32.140]  Oh, no.
[49:32.680 --> 49:33.580]  Not at all.
[49:33.770 --> 49:34.850]  No, Jesus has dominated the show.
[49:34.850 --> 49:41.850]  By the way, I mean, if I have the chance to say something, we have a Congress here between Christmas and New Year's year.
[49:42.120 --> 49:42.350]  Yes.
[49:42.560 --> 49:50.120]  Anyone who wants to get rid of that Christmas terrorism, he's pretty good invited to come to Berlin.
[49:50.120 --> 49:56.750]  That is 27th to 29th of December, but we do start at the 26th to build up the technique and so on.
[49:56.900 --> 49:59.830]  We have plenty of space for people who bring up their laptops.
[49:59.830 --> 50:02.160]  We have, of course, a huge internet connectivity.
[50:02.500 --> 50:09.660]  And we have three days of workshops and podiums, discussions, most of it in German, but also some of them in English.
[50:09.980 --> 50:13.480]  And we have lots of people there who speak English, so it won't be a problem.
[50:14.020 --> 50:19.980]  And Berlin may be a little bit cold here, but it still is a pretty nice and wild city, just as New York is.
[50:20.200 --> 50:29.350]  So anyone who's interested in that can find very soon all English information also at www.ccc.de Okay.
[50:29.620 --> 50:30.120]  You know what, Andy?
[50:30.180 --> 50:31.100]  I'm going to go this year.
[50:31.200 --> 50:31.790]  I really am.
[50:32.080 --> 50:32.270]  Yeah.
[50:32.520 --> 50:33.180]  I've been meaning to.
[50:33.270 --> 50:34.060]  This time I'm going to do it.
[50:34.160 --> 50:36.180]  We'd like to show you so you know that on the first evening.
[50:36.520 --> 50:36.640]  Yeah.
[50:36.680 --> 50:43.020]  So we'll have some discussions about copyright versus public space and versus free flow of information.
[50:43.380 --> 50:50.140]  On the second day, we'll invite some companies who are here on the intellectual property business.
[50:50.730 --> 51:01.330]  And on the third day, we'll have some lighter and deeper look at the main track on SIG in structure, so signal and intelligence, the echelon system, and so on.
[51:01.500 --> 51:03.830]  And we'll have some discussions with politicians here.
[51:04.020 --> 51:16.580]  So I think we'll have next to the normal, right, pretty more technical workshops on TCP, IP hijacking, and getting into those hacking issues more.
[51:16.700 --> 51:24.380]  We have also a lot of discussions on how, let's say, technology will develop and changes society and so on.
[51:24.640 --> 51:31.420]  So, well, I guess maybe, for everyone who accounts, this might be a pretty interesting thing.
[51:31.810 --> 51:32.460]  Sounds that way.
[51:32.540 --> 51:37.210]  Again, more information, www.ccc.de slash congress.
[51:37.580 --> 51:42.080]  Let's take some phone calls, 212-209-2900.
[51:42.080 --> 51:42.160]  David.
[51:43.200 --> 51:45.350]  The more he talks about it, the more I want to go.
[51:46.230 --> 51:47.640]  But I don't think I'll be able to.
[51:47.920 --> 51:48.790]  You can't drive.
[51:49.180 --> 51:50.600]  Yeah, it's kind of hard to drive.
[51:50.920 --> 51:56.850]  I mean, we have three airports, and I mean, what do you want to do at Christmas in New York?
[51:57.310 --> 51:58.350]  That's true, yeah.
[51:59.030 --> 52:02.020]  Maybe get annoyed by the tourists, huh?
[52:02.500 --> 52:04.160]  Yeah, well, you can be the tourist.
[52:04.350 --> 52:05.020]  I could be the tourist.
[52:05.060 --> 52:05.960]  Annoy other people.
[52:06.200 --> 52:07.500]  Thanks, I have that this year.
[52:07.500 --> 52:09.940]  Okay, let's take a phone call.
[52:10.540 --> 52:11.180]  Good evening.
[52:11.420 --> 52:12.180]  You're on the air.
[52:12.540 --> 52:13.380]  I remember, Manuel.
[52:13.640 --> 52:15.180]  Remember when life wasn't annoying.
[52:15.330 --> 52:16.160]  Hang on a second.
[52:16.230 --> 52:16.790]  How does that work?
[52:16.880 --> 52:18.140]  Remember when life wasn't annoying.
[52:18.210 --> 52:19.640]  How very fitting for him to mention that.
[52:20.230 --> 52:22.120]  All right, Rebel, I'll make you a deal right now.
[52:22.160 --> 52:23.940]  I don't hear your voice until the end of the year.
[52:23.940 --> 52:25.580]  We can lift the ban on 2001.
[52:25.640 --> 52:28.960]  If we hear your voice more, it's going to not be good.
[52:29.120 --> 52:32.440]  We're just going to keep extending it forever, and we can play this game for a long time.
[52:32.980 --> 52:33.520]  Good evening.
[52:33.680 --> 52:34.120]  You're on the air.
[52:34.770 --> 52:36.540]  Okay, maybe that was Rebel hanging up the end of the line.
[52:37.560 --> 52:38.420]  Let's go over here.
[52:38.520 --> 52:38.830]  Good evening.
[52:39.000 --> 52:39.500]  You're on the air.
[52:40.620 --> 52:41.120]  Speak up.
[52:41.460 --> 52:41.460]  Good evening.
[52:41.700 --> 52:42.850]  Good evening, sir.
[52:43.700 --> 52:46.750]  You see, it's just no respect whatsoever, you know?
[52:47.120 --> 52:47.680]  Good evening.
[52:47.790 --> 52:48.200]  You're on the air.
[52:48.620 --> 52:49.180]  Hey, Emanuel.
[52:49.710 --> 52:50.700]  It's Tommy Pickles.
[52:51.140 --> 52:51.540]  Emanuel?
[52:52.350 --> 52:52.750]  Emanuel.
[52:53.180 --> 52:53.620]  Oh, okay.
[52:54.040 --> 52:54.600]  Tommy Pickles.
[52:54.620 --> 52:55.060]  How are you doing?
[52:55.180 --> 52:57.290]  Yeah, you were down at Freaknake in Nashville.
[52:57.850 --> 52:59.440]  Yeah, and congratulations, Andy.
[53:00.330 --> 53:00.920]  Oh, thank you.
[53:02.770 --> 53:05.460]  But, yeah, it's an evangelistic store.
[53:05.640 --> 53:06.180]  I'm really upset.
[53:06.180 --> 53:06.680]  I'm upset now.
[53:06.850 --> 53:09.080]  Yeah, well, you know, the evangelistic store is still there.
[53:09.770 --> 53:14.140]  Yeah, well, I guess we'll get together down there in maybe 2001 or something.
[53:14.380 --> 53:14.540]  Uh-huh.
[53:14.540 --> 53:15.400]  You have a question for Andy?
[53:15.640 --> 53:20.830]  Well, no, I just wanted to spread my congratulations, and hopefully we'll be out there for the Congress.
[53:20.880 --> 53:23.560]  We're trying as hard as we can to get out there.
[53:23.680 --> 53:27.210]  Yeah, I think there's going to be a large American turnout this year.
[53:27.330 --> 53:27.850]  I really hope so.
[53:27.850 --> 53:28.600]  That's very good.
[53:28.810 --> 53:38.640]  So, by the way, I mean, thanks for the Congress relations, but to be honest, this is the most unrelaxed, whatever thing I have ever participated in.
[53:38.810 --> 53:48.160]  So normally, if you go to Congress or a conference or whatever, you have about 80% of people, you know, you go there as a participant to learn or to hear something.
[53:48.160 --> 54:06.020]  And at these ICANN meetings, you have about 95% of industrial or governmental interest people who really put lots of pressure in between 8 o'clock in the morning and 8 o'clock in the evening without joining any dinner breaks or having any kind of social atmosphere there to just,
[54:06.040 --> 54:09.350]  you know, make their power structures putting on the Internet.
[54:09.350 --> 54:21.350]  So I think it also would be making sense to have more people from the Hackerstein there getting into the discussions, even maybe breaking up some of the, let's say, a little bit too business-orientated sessions.
[54:21.560 --> 54:21.920]  Absolutely.
[54:22.140 --> 54:22.500]  Absolutely.
[54:22.710 --> 54:25.460]  Well, if we have knowledge of when these meetings will take place, you know...
[54:25.460 --> 54:28.980]  I just want Isaac to wear his Bible Man outfit out there.
[54:28.980 --> 54:30.290]  Yeah, what's up with the Bible Man?
[54:30.380 --> 54:32.420]  I mean, you're not wearing the Bible Man mask.
[54:32.560 --> 54:34.200]  The Bible Man sword still isn't working.
[54:34.380 --> 54:35.730]  John, what's up with the Bible Man sword?
[54:35.730 --> 54:37.020]  It's not operational?
[54:37.580 --> 54:39.120]  I had to work on it a bit.
[54:39.120 --> 54:40.520]  It's going to be operational very shortly.
[54:40.560 --> 54:41.520]  This is for four-year-olds.
[54:41.920 --> 54:42.700]  I mean, come on.
[54:43.060 --> 54:43.230]  All right.
[54:43.330 --> 54:43.790]  Talk to you later.
[54:43.920 --> 54:44.180]  All right.
[54:45.290 --> 54:48.250]  Andy, in case you haven't figured it out, we...
[54:48.250 --> 54:54.270]  Well, I went to a Christian store and bought all these Christian things back for the folks here at the studio.
[54:54.460 --> 54:58.500]  Right now, I'm trying to put on a Bible Man mask and use the Bible Man sword.
[54:58.900 --> 55:03.250]  But, you know, we're almost out of time, so let's go back to the phones, and hopefully we'll get the sword operational in a second.
[55:03.440 --> 55:03.540]  Sure.
[55:03.730 --> 55:04.120]  Good evening.
[55:04.230 --> 55:04.680]  You're on the air.
[55:05.040 --> 55:06.920]  Andy, this is Astro in Chelsea.
[55:07.350 --> 55:07.750]  How you doing?
[55:07.750 --> 55:09.180]  In the Chelsea, Southern Manhattan.
[55:09.830 --> 55:21.560]  You know, the funny thing is, down there in a Ramada Inn in Dallas, Texas, they're having a conference on the JFK assassination, Martin Luther King assassination, and also Bobby Kennedy assassination.
[55:21.830 --> 55:22.140]  Really?
[55:22.140 --> 55:27.210]  And I got a magazine they sold here in New York years ago that shows John F.
[55:27.310 --> 55:30.540]  Kennedy, when he was in Berlin, had a baby with a German woman.
[55:30.730 --> 55:39.680]  And if you're in New York, come to the flea market on 6th Avenue and 25th Street there every Sunday, and the garage between 24th and 25th Street, 6th and 7th Avenue.
[55:39.680 --> 55:52.580]  And there's a place in Grand Prairie, Texas, called the JFK Lancer Resource Mail Order that sells books, videos, audios, and tapes on Bobby Kennedy, Jack Kennedy, and Martin Luther King's assassination.
[55:52.960 --> 55:56.440]  And tomorrow is the anniversary, November 22nd, of John F.
[55:56.500 --> 55:59.210]  Kennedy's assassination in Dallas in 1963.
[55:59.210 --> 56:02.350]  Ladies and gentlemen, Art Bell, thank you.
[56:02.540 --> 56:06.850]  Yeah, really, it's totally unrelated to anything we were talking about, but interesting nonetheless.
[56:08.520 --> 56:10.310]  Wow, have you got the sword working?
[56:10.620 --> 56:10.810]  Yeah.
[56:11.020 --> 56:11.520]  Let's hear it.
[56:13.540 --> 56:15.750]  That is the sound of God and his wrath.
[56:17.200 --> 56:19.710]  That sword is for the word of God.
[56:20.060 --> 56:21.230]  What has God wrath?
[56:21.330 --> 56:22.900]  It sounds a lot like feedback.
[56:25.420 --> 56:25.850]  Wow.
[56:25.850 --> 56:29.380]  Okay, well, let's, uh, let's, uh, all right, enough with that.
[56:29.850 --> 56:31.790]  Put that away before I smite you.
[56:32.310 --> 56:34.250]  Let's, uh, go to another phone call.
[56:34.420 --> 56:35.350]  Let's go over here.
[56:35.770 --> 56:36.600]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[56:37.500 --> 56:38.730]  All right, over there.
[56:38.810 --> 56:39.540]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[56:39.850 --> 56:40.700]  Yeah, every day.
[56:41.060 --> 56:41.730]  Speak up, please.
[56:43.350 --> 56:44.400]  Okay, you gotta speak up.
[56:44.710 --> 56:46.060]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[56:48.830 --> 56:50.180]  Okay, I'm not hearing people.
[56:50.440 --> 56:50.620]  Oh.
[56:50.900 --> 56:51.710]  Ah, go ahead.
[56:51.710 --> 56:57.160]  I just wanted to mention, um, uh, you were talking about ICANN and so forth.
[56:57.270 --> 56:57.520]  Uh-huh.
[56:57.880 --> 57:25.380]  Um, that, uh, solution is up for something called OpenNIC, which, uh, uh, Robin, who runs it, or started it up, was on one of the people trying to, um, get it introduced, and, well, she didn't make any, uh, headway on it, right, but, um, they got some information on www.opennic.unrated.net.
[57:25.580 --> 57:36.080]  Well, there's a bunch of people who are trying to go out and start secondary root servers and roots, and, unfortunately, I think they are all going to fail because they miss a very, uh, substantial thing.
[57:36.270 --> 57:38.210]  They actually need people to sign on.
[57:38.600 --> 57:40.080]  Andy, what do you, what do you think about that?
[57:41.270 --> 57:44.020]  Um, I mean, yes, you're right.
[57:44.020 --> 57:59.540]  It's not so easy, but, I mean, on the long-term road, um, it, it might be really important to have an alternative structure, because what we actually have is this A-name root server with a root zone file, and that's under the control of the U.S.
[57:59.660 --> 58:01.710]  government, and if U.S.
[58:02.100 --> 58:12.900]  government ever might come on the idea to, uh, have here someone kicked out, uh, they are more or less, technically, at least, um, I mean, it's, it's possible for them to do it very fast.
[58:13.060 --> 58:13.600]  Oh, DD.
[58:13.600 --> 58:19.500]  Well, the name system might be a, uh, uh, situation where laws are applied.
[58:19.500 --> 58:37.940]  It might be a situation where, uh, whatever is applied, and we might very urge it, need to build up a structure which is at least avoiding that single point of failure or structure we have right now, and gives us the chance to have some functionalities running,
[58:38.200 --> 58:39.600]  even if that falls.
[58:39.600 --> 58:40.210]  Uh, distributed.
[58:40.500 --> 58:41.330]  I agree entirely.
[58:41.330 --> 58:46.770]  The problem is that I doubt anyone is really going to subscribe to a secondary root until the ISPs do it.
[58:46.810 --> 58:52.810]  And the ISPs are only going to do it when there's a demand from the users, and the users aren't going to do it unless the ISPs do it, and it's a vicious circle.
[58:52.830 --> 59:01.980]  Well, users need to be educated, but the point is that to add a, to add a top-level domain, a new top-level domain, literally, you're adding a few lines to the, uh, to the, to the root server, right?
[59:02.080 --> 59:02.940]  I mean, that's basically...
[59:02.940 --> 59:06.080]  Technically, it's easier than falling out of bed.
[59:06.290 --> 59:11.770]  But the, the structure that ICANN and these other organizations are trying to impose are completely ludicrous.
[59:12.100 --> 59:17.830]  And, you know, while I commend Andy for being there, I continue to refuse to acknowledge their very existence.
[59:18.080 --> 59:24.040]  Well, you can refuse to acknowledge the sun, too, but it's there all the same, and it is controlling things, and we're out of time, unfortunately.
[59:24.210 --> 59:29.810]  In case you're wondering what all that noise was, we succeeded in opening up all the packages, and there's a Bible man sitting across the table from me.
[59:29.960 --> 59:30.770]  The Bible man is over to my right.
[59:30.770 --> 59:31.980]  He looks really scary.
[59:32.120 --> 59:32.750]  I personally am scared.
[59:33.000 --> 59:35.920]  Andy, thanks so much for, uh, for being with us, and, and best of luck.
[59:36.020 --> 59:38.290]  You let us know what's going on, and we'll, uh, we'll spread the word.
[59:38.790 --> 59:39.120]  Sure.
[59:39.460 --> 59:40.830]  You'll give us a report by mail.
[59:41.440 --> 59:42.210]  Okay, have a good night.
[59:42.420 --> 59:43.120]  All right, take care.
[59:44.440 --> 59:49.270]  That's Andy from Chaos Computer Club, and now from ICANN, we're out of here for this week.
[59:49.440 --> 59:50.210]  We'll see you again next week.
[59:50.310 --> 59:50.500]  Good night.
[01:00:35.060 --> 01:00:38.240]  And coming up next, Tahrir, here on WBAI, New York.
[01:00:58.900 --> 01:01:05.640]  For more than 20 years, Minister Clemson Brown has documented the history and culture of the African diaspora.
[01:01:05.880 --> 01:01:13.760]  You're invited to a tribute and fundraiser to honor this fearless videographer on Friday, December 1st at Bethany Baptist Church in Brooklyn.
[01:01:14.140 --> 01:01:25.340]  Speakers include Dr. Yosef Ben Jakanen, Ilumbe Braff, Sister Camille Yarbrough, Ralph Carter, Attorney Alton Maddox, Reverend Al Sharpton, Drs.
[01:01:25.400 --> 01:01:27.900]  Leonard and Roslyn Jeffries, among others.
[01:01:28.080 --> 01:01:37.680]  That's Friday, December 1st at the Bethany Baptist Church, 460 Marcus Garvey Boulevard in Brooklyn, a tribute to the work of Minister Clemson Brown.
[01:01:37.980 --> 01:01:43.180]  For more information, call area code 718-452-5901.
[01:01:43.300 --> 01:01:47.160]  That's 718-452-5901.
[01:01:54.920 --> 01:01:56.160]  I'm Amy Goodman.
[01:01:56.400 --> 01:02:01.500]  For the past 50 years, Odetta has been a major voice and force in U.S.
[01:02:01.660 --> 01:02:02.420]  social movements.
[01:02:02.620 --> 01:02:12.860]  On Wednesday, December 13th at 7 p.m., WBAI will host a 70th birthday celebration and concert for this extraordinary singer and activist.
[01:02:13.280 --> 01:02:18.540]  Oh, well, it's blues, blues everywhere I go.
[01:02:20.160 --> 01:02:26.900]  This event will take place at the Community Church of New York, located at 40 East 35th Street in Manhattan.
[01:02:27.340 --> 01:02:30.340]  Sharing the stage with Odetta will be Judy Gorman.
[01:02:30.340 --> 01:02:32.020]  I trust dreams.
[01:02:32.620 --> 01:02:34.340]  I trust reality.
[01:02:36.160 --> 01:02:38.480]  But not the virtual kind.
[01:02:39.820 --> 01:02:45.000]  What I am is an analog girl.
[01:02:45.640 --> 01:02:48.660]  Heart and soul and mind.
[01:02:49.020 --> 01:02:54.740]  That's Wednesday, December 13th at the Community Church of New York, 40 East 35th Street.
[01:02:54.980 --> 01:02:57.320]  Odetta in concert with Judy Gorman.
[01:02:57.320 --> 01:03:00.220]  Tickets are $25 and $50.
[01:03:00.760 --> 01:03:07.520]  To order by credit card only, call area code 212-255-4834.
[01:03:07.520 --> 01:03:08.860]  That is 212-255-4756-255.
[01:03:08.860 --> 01:03:10.040]  That is 212-255-566.
[01:03:10.040 --> 01:03:10.140]  That is 212-255-4825-48.
[01:03:10.360 --> 01:03:10.680]  That is 315-504-5669-328-274.